Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Dose to Dental podcast.
The focus of this podcast is to share undergraduate and dental school experiences from dental
students and dental professionals through valuable discussions.
Through sharing the journeys and stories of current dental students and dental professionals,
our goal is to help you find answers or guidance for your own pre-dental journeys.
We are super excited to have Dr. Vernon Goyle as our guest today.
Dr. Goyle graduated from Stony Brook University with a degree in biology and more recently
just graduated from Stony Brook School of Dental Medicine this summer.
During his undergraduate years, he was heavily involved with the Stony Brook Pre-Dental Society
and served as dance chair of the Puso Executive Board, which is a national competitive hip-hop
dancing team at Stony Brook University.
In dental school, Dr. Goyle started a process of dental club, conducted research, and went
on to start a YouTube channel to showcase his love for dancing.
Dr. Goyle is now continuing his residency at Stony Brook as well.
Dr. Goyle, we're beyond excited to have you on the podcast.
How does it feel to complete dental school and how have your first few weeks of residency
been going?
Honestly, it feels unreal.
It's crazy to believe how fast time applies.
The first few weeks of residency, it's been kind of getting back into the swing of things
since I came back from summer break, you know.
So it is definitely going a little bit slow, but I can't wait to see how the journey goes.
I feel like we're going to learn a lot this year.
Yeah, awesome.
That sounds great.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Like where you're from, where you grew up in obviously, and you know, we like to do
for fun.
Sure.
So again, my name is Varun Goyle.
I am currently in my first year of residency, like you all said.
Originally, I was born in Queens, but I've lived in Long Island for most of my life.
For my first semester of college, I actually studied abroad in Greece, which is part of
the Northeastern University's NUN program.
Went back to Northeastern after that was over, decided to transfer school to Stony Brook,
and then I finished Stony Brook, graduated in 2017, started dental school in 2018, just
finished in 2022, and now I'm starting residency.
And in my free time, I like to dance, as you mentioned.
And throughout dental school, you know, I came up with a few ways to combine both my
passions for dentistry and dancing.
So that's kind of where I'm at right now, still, you know, trying to learn as much as
I can with dental school and trying to continue with dancing.
That's great to hear that you're dancing.
It's very unique, because I don't think that many people have that link between dentistry
and dancing.
So every dental student and dental professional has a reason for diving deep into this field.
We just like to ask, you know, why dentistry?
What motivated you to get to where you are and what has kept you here?
Yeah.
So I've always been wanting to do something in the medical field.
I guess I just wasn't exactly sure what it was.
So when I was at Stony Brook, I was premed on the premed track to begin with, you know,
and then just talking to a bunch of people, they kind of just suggested that I look towards
dentistry.
So I started shadowing a few dentists, you know, because at the time I still didn't know
exactly what it was I wanted to do in the health profession.
I started looking towards dentistry and it was pretty late during my college years.
Actually, it was around junior year I started looking towards dentistry.
Heard a lot of great things about the lifestyle and how, you know, just something, how it's
something that's different from the traditional medical track as well.
So I started shadowing and honestly, I took a leap of faith.
I took a leap of faith and, you know, something like I shattered a few people and I was like,
okay, you know what, let's go for it.
It's not something that a lot of people do.
But when I really thought about it, especially when it came to writing my personal statement,
I tried to think of a more personal reason of why I could apply dentistry in my life.
So I started thinking about my parents and know my parents actually before then never
really visited a dentist.
So that I guess kind of inspired me to want to pursue dentistry more because when I thought
about it, my first dental visit wasn't until I was 16 years old.
I, yeah, I got my first painting at 16 years old.
So I was just kind of thinking about that.
And you know, since dentistry wasn't really something that was looked that greatly upon
in my family, it's something that I wanted to learn more about and bring into my family.
So that's basically why I pursued dentistry.
Yeah, that's a really good story.
And honestly, like not getting a claim into your 16, it's got to be, it makes sense why
that's like your source of motivation for, you know, pursuing this field.
So yeah, along those lines of color to ask you, like, how'd you maintain your why throughout
undergrad, right?
You know, there's a lot of variables that go into like motivation and drive and, you
know, all that maybe discipline might be the best, the best answer to put it.
But you know, what was your motivation to, well, how'd you keep your why?
Through a daily grad process?
So I think just something about me, I'm a very, like I really take time management seriously,
and I really try to prioritize what's most important.
So like I said, I did, and I did decide that I wanted to pursue dentistry late.
It was around my junior year.
And typically the end of junior year is when the application to start.
So as soon as I figured out this is one of what I wanted to do, I kind of just started
hustling, started studying for the DAT right away, and it was while I was still taking
all my exams and going through my courses in school too.
But I just had to learn how to prioritize things a little bit better because now this
was a really big goal of mine, trying to get into dental school as soon as I graduate from
college.
Started studying for the DAT and started to become more involved in the pre-dental society.
And I want to start a shadowing some more people.
And it's just when you kind of have a goal, you just want to try to do your best to pursue
it.
So you talked about you used to be like a pre-med, and then you kind of moved to pre-dental.
So how was your undergraduate experience?
When did you have that realization?
I want to just shift my path.
And then how'd you kind of organize your activities and events accordingly so that you would be
on track to apply to dental school?
It was kind of tough.
Like I said, I did talk to a lot of people about it.
And I have a lot of doctors in my family, but I also noticed that I didn't have any dentists
in my family.
So in the early years of college, I started going to hospitals, shadowing at hospitals.
I volunteered as an early in an operating room in a surgical room back at Northeastern.
And of course, I wanted to enter the health profession because I wanted to really help
people.
But I guess after that, I kind of just realized that a hospital setting wasn't really my thing
at the time.
And then I just started to look at other branches of medicine, one of them which wound up being
dentistry.
So I guess that's how my work was shifted.
Yeah.
So I think something that a lot of people may struggle with is choosing their classes schedule,
right?
Because everyone wants to choose classes that are going to help them achieve their major
and fulfill their requirements.
So as you shifted from Northeastern to Soniaburg, what resources did you use to kind of help
you along the way?
Yeah.
So luckily, I was a biology major and a lot of the pre-dental and pre-medical courses
biology majors are required to take.
So for me, the shift wasn't as bad.
But we do have pre-dental advisors at Soniaburg undergrad.
I remember talking to a bunch of them and they really just helped me get all of my application
things ready.
And also, they made sure that I was on the right track.
And I'm sure most universities out there would have a pre-dental advisor or a pre-medical
advisor.
So I would definitely recommend setting up appointments, reaching out to them.
Also taking advantage of the career centers and also the writing centers so that they
can help you with your resume and your personal statements and things like that.
Yeah.
So you touched upon the DAT and your personal statement.
Can you just talk a little bit more about the dental application in a whole?
How did you plan your studying for the DAT?
Why did you take the courses?
Were you kind of thinking about the exam or was it not yet?
Were you decided to go into the dental?
So I've heard a lot of things about DAT boot camp.
I think that's one of the holy grails I was studying for the DAT.
So I definitely looked into that.
I'm not sure what the main resources that are available are now.
But I know at the time, I also looked into Chad's videos for organic chemistry and general
chemistry especially.
And for reading comprehension, DAT boot camp I looked at mainly and just trying to, you
know, just reading articles on a general basis because it's all reading comprehension, you
know, the more reading that you do, the better you get at it.
There was also, and I can't forget, I can't remember the name, but this one doctor that
had all of the books for like Orgo and Jen Kim, I forgot the name.
Sorry.
But once I figured out, I'll let you know.
Yeah, and I basically, I think if I remember correctly, it was mainly during winter break
because we had about a month off for winter break where I really heavily focused on my
studying.
I was like, I didn't take any courses.
I did all the self-studying.
I did all the studying on my own.
But I basically created a schedule where I would go to the library eight hours a day
for about five days a week and I would just sit there, grind and kind of create a schedule
for myself to study.
And the schedule was reviewing materials and constantly doing practice questions too.
And I guess my studying strategy was mostly like I spent a couple of hours reviewing doing
practice questions.
That would be like the first four hours, second four hours, I would move on to a different
subject and repeat the same thing.
And the next day, I would start a brand new subject, same thing for the first four hours.
Next four hours, I would do a different subject, but I would also just briefly review what
I did the previous day.
So I don't forget anything by the time it's the end of winter break.
I don't forget what I did on the first day of winter break.
That definitely makes a lot of sense.
You're reviewing every couple of days, you don't forget what you worked like four hours
the one day on to remember.
And as you said, creating a schedule is very important for pre-dentals.
A lot of times, everyone has different activities that doing while they're studying for the
exams could be during the semester, it could be during a break.
Either way, I feel like making a certain schedule and kind of following that is the best way
to go.
And definitely, I feel like incorporating a little bit of activity each day as you study,
just because you might be getting mentally stronger to take this exam, but it's also
important to be physically stronger.
You want to maintain both sides of that coin.
So along those lines, how do you, you mentioned you incorporated dancing into dentistry.
So can you like touch up upon how exactly that worked out?
Like, how did you incorporate these aspects of dancing into the field that you want to
pursue?
I think because at the end of the day dentistry, it is a medical profession and most medical
professions are team oriented.
You have to learn how to collab with everyone in your team.
With dentistry, we have the dental assistant, the dentist, the dental hygienist, your lab
technician, your receptionist, and if you just got to make sure you learn how to communicate
with everyone properly to help provide high quality care.
And the same thing kind of applies in dance, on a dance team where you're in a team setting.
You have the members, you have the leaders of the team, the choreographers, the person
who has to make your music for the set.
So I think it's really having experience in that collaborative setting with dancing, which
kind of helped me help prepare me for dental school a little bit more and that's kind of
why I included it in the person statement.
Yeah, I think honestly, I play basketball myself and like even if you're playing like
up or something, it's kind of like the same thing.
Like you need to, you can just do it all yourself.
I mean, sometimes you can, but you know, most of the time if you're playing like in
competitive setting, like you kind of need everyone to be on the same page and like,
you know, really help contribute towards the ultimate goal, which is the way in the game.
So yeah, you talked about, you know, dancing.
Did you, you also had involvement with the pre-dental society.
So can you talk a little bit about, you know, what kind of role that played during your
undergraduate years?
Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest event that I could think of is when they took the undergrads
to visit the dental school.
And you know, when I visited the dental school, this was, I think during my senior year where
I visited the dental school.
And then it's crazy because when I went back, when I went to dental school the next year
and I saw some familiar faces, I was like, oh my God, I remember you, you did that mock
interview with me in the pre-dental society last year.
So the pre-dental society, I would highly recommend trying to go to as many meetings
as you can.
And I think at the end of the day, it's all about connections, you know.
I'm sure the pre-dental society also has collaborative events, not just with Stony Brook
Dental School, but with other schools, you know, so I would definitely recommend making
connections with people that are involved.
If they have events with other schools, making connections with those other schools as well.
The more people see you, the more they'll remember you, you know.
And especially when you're in an interview, when you're interviewing, the most important
thing is you want to make sure you're memorable.
Yeah, for sure.
And like you said, the mock interview process, honestly, I know that I think Harvard and
some other schools do conduct mock interviews for like pre-dentals.
And I think that's like the best way to, you know, really hone in on your interview skills.
And I think to be honest, I'm not sure, but I think there's a spot in your application
to kind of show you like your interest in a different school.
So I mean, if you do mock interviews at like, you know, these dental schools that you are
applying to, they might think, oh, wow, so this kid actually has some interest in the
school and he actually did an interview with us.
So, you know, because it's why you are in a better position and going on those lines,
like can you talk about your own interview experience, you know, whether it be like with
Stony Brook or any other schools you apply to with just so our pre-inalisters can understand
it or what goes into preparing and conducting these interviews.
Sure.
So I don't remember how many schools I interviewed at.
I think it was maybe three.
I applied to maybe 10, 12 schools and got three interviews.
And I basically, when I went to the interview, right, I just tried to remind myself, you
know, just be yourself.
You want to be accepted for who you are.
You don't want to put on any persona or anything like that, right?
And me, I guess in general, I get pretty excited and I'm just like a fun, jumpy person, you
know, so I try to make people aware of that.
So I try to, you know, when you're in that room with all the interviewees, try to meet
as many people as you can.
And you know, I know at the end of the day, you're competing with each other, but five
years down the line when you both graduate and, you know, run into each other again,
then it just kind of builds that connection, you know, so definitely just meeting as many
people as you can throughout the, throughout the interview process.
And at the end of the day, the interview process itself, it's just a conversation between you
and whoever it is that's interviewing you, you know.
You want to, you, yeah, I mean, you just want to make it sound as casual as you can.
You don't want to sound scripted.
And you want them to like you for who you are, you know, and at the end of the day, it's
not just a one-sided thing.
You don't, I personally think that you don't have to feel like you need to impress them
or anything like that, you know, because they, they will be asking you questions and you
want to ask them questions too, to make sure that you also like school that you're going
to or you, you're interviewing at.
So you know, I think the most important thing is to just yourself.
I know it's very nerve wracking and that's okay.
That's normal, but practicing ahead of time also helps and not practicing scripted conversations,
you know, but just practicing with the family member and just trying to make it sound as
natural as possible.
Yeah, I think definitely some people kind of think of every process and they think like
question, answer, question, answer.
But we actually had Brandon Axelrod who was an incoming D2 student at the School of Tent
of Medicine, I don't know if you know him, but he kind of told us that like he kind of
swayed the questions wherever he wanted to go.
So he'd ask the interviewer questions back, avoid, not avoid, but kind of like change the
direction of the conversation.
And like, I forgot what he said, but he said that the conversation just, just became something
really casual, nothing about dentistry, something else.
But was that true in your own personal experience?
Like, did you have, like, what was the focus of your interview questions?
Were they more on dentistry?
Was it more like on your personal life?
So it depends who you get.
And I would highly recommend if you know ahead of time the name of the person who was interviewing
you, research them, see what they like, see what they're about so that you know you can
try to give your conversation towards things that they like to talk about.
It might not necessarily be dentistry, you know, but I remember I had someone who interviewed
me who loved research.
So I didn't know that ahead of time, but you know, when I found out how much you loved
research, I tried my best to give a conversation towards research.
And you know, research is also just something that I was interested in pursuing when I applied
for dental school too.
So it kind of just worked out.
Yeah.
I mean, if you know, like who your interviewers are ahead of time, maybe you can formulate
some kind of questions to ask them, you know, to kind of steer the conversation how you
would like it to go.
You know, I feel like when this conversation is steered by the person interviewed, which
would be the pre-dentals in this case, I feel like it makes the whole interview process
a little easier just because it feels like you're more in control of the conversation
now.
So like, what are some questions that pre-dentals could ask the interviewer, you know, to achieve
this, to increase that comfort level during the interview itself?
Yeah, so I think it depends what it is that the interviewee is looking for at the school.
You know, I've met people who applied for dental school knowing that they want to specialize
in ortho or that they want to specialize in perio or endo.
So you know, a lot of questions that you can ask are, how is the ortho department here?
You know, ortho, there's a lot of scanning involved in ortho.
So do they use digital scanners in ortho here?
The whole dentistry itself is going to, it's making a lot of progress.
So how heavy is the school in digital?
Faculty to student ratio in clinic, right?
Luckily, Stony Brook is a very small school.
There's about 40 people per class.
So there's very heavy interaction between faculty and students.
I feel like the faculty literally know all the students here.
So faculty student ratio is definitely something that you want to take into account.
So if you're interested in research, you know, students are interested in research,
then talk about like, you know, what type of research are current students kind of thing.
Outreach, I know Stony Brook is huge in outreach.
We had Mission Trips in Chile, Madagascar.
You know, unfortunately, I wasn't able to be a part of that because COVID hit around
the time we were doing applications for those.
That's something huge too that drew me into Stony Brook.
So I think it all comes down to what the individual is looking for, location-wise also, you know.
You know, faculty, they all understand that when you're a student, you're not,
like they don't want you to have like just a 24-7 studying lifestyle, you know,
they want to make sure you have a healthy balance.
You can even talk about like what do students like to do here for fun outside of school.
So I actually went to Guatemala a couple of weeks ago for the, you know,
you know, the organization VAW, VAW here of that one.
It's just like an outreach.
So we went for like a dental outreach program.
So we helped, you know, like assisting and shadowing.
And I know personally, I'm also dental assistant.
So like, you know, assisting is like one of the ways I kind of keep myself involved
with dentistry even when I'm at school.
Yeah.
So like you personally, like did you, did you, how did you find shadowing and assisting?
Like, you know, how did it, how was it a valuable experience for you?
Like, did it solidify your choice in dentistry or did you kind of, you know,
what aspect of it did you love the most?
Yeah.
So like I said, I did enter dentistry really late, like right before applications started.
So I didn't have as much shadowing experience as I would have liked to.
But I went back to my local dentist aspect of shadowing him.
And also while I was a Stony Brook, I would just look at anyone who owns a practice near me.
And I actually, I literally just sent him an email, told him that I'm a pre-dental student
interested in learning more.
And I'd love to step by your office if you have the time, shadow you.
And it does work.
So I did shadow someone a couple of times around the Stony Brook area.
But majority of the time I was shadowing someone, like I was shadowing my local dentist.
Yeah. And, you know, there's also, there's also other things you can do if you want to.
There's, for example, Discover Dental.
Stony Brook has a Discover Dental program where people are interested in learning more about dentistry.
It's, I think, a two week program where they can get hands on experience to see if it's something
that they want to do before they commit to dentistry.
It's not something I was able to take advantage of, unfortunately.
But yeah, there are programs out there like that too.
Right.
And I discovered dental school is like a huge program that the Stony Brook Dental School
did host for a couple of years.
But I think because of COVID and all the, the rule and the regulations they got now,
it has, I don't think it's been running for like the past two or three years, but I think students
can look into SHPP, which is like, kind of like the same thing.
I know Columbia hosts that kind of program where you go like during the summer and it's kind of more like a
health administration slash pre-med, pre-dental kind of program where they kind of teach you about,
you know, ethics and, you know, you just, you sit, you stay at the school for like the whole summer
and you just go through a bunch of programs.
I know our first guest, Stade, was talking about this.
There's other alternatives, you know, to get yourself really involved in dentistry while you're still an undergrad.
So, so can we, let's talk a bit more about, let's transition into like your dental school experience, right?
Can you kind of summarize or briefly talk about your four years at Stony Brook School, Dan and Messen?
Sure, yeah.
So as Stony Brook specifically for the first six months or so, you're taking classes at the medical school with the medical students.
And then slowly as the spring semester hits, you're transitioning into the dental school.
For the first year, you're taking a few hands-on courses at the dental school also.
So things like basic dental morphology, waxing up teeth, basic operatives.
So you learn how to, you know, pick up a handpiece and how to remove decay and simulated teeth and practice composite or amalgamation.
So that's basically all first years.
First year is mainly all didactic with some of those lab courses.
Second year here, you start to transition into more heavy lab courses like prosthodontics, right?
So prosthetics, fixed crowns, removable dentures.
You have lab courses on those and you're still kind of continuing with your didactic courses.
So now you're taking a little bit more advanced courses like oral surgery, you know, you start to transition to oral pathology.
And you start to take a lot of the specialty courses too.
So like more advanced periocourses, endocourses, courses, things like that.
Towards the later half of the second year, you start to transition into the clinic as a pre-doc student in clinic.
So, you know, you start getting patients, you start seeing patients maybe once or twice a week and you have rotations in the school where, you know, you can shadow or assist upperclassmen or specialties.
Third year is more clinic based.
You have some didactics, maybe eight to ten, you have didactics and then ten to five is all clinic and then fourth year is predominantly all clinic.
You start even earlier, you start at nine, fourth years and they go from nine to five lunch break in the middle.
So that's a really in-depth explanation of what dental school is.
For many like students wondering what dental school is like, can you just describe how you felt, you know,
winding back the clock, entering your first year of dental school?
Like, how was it adjusting from undergrad?
You know, was it just crazy?
Like, did you go into med courses like, wow, what am I doing right now?
Like, do you have any self-doubt?
You know, stuff like that.
Yeah, of course I had self-doubt.
I just want to say that that is a normal part of dental school.
It's not easy, you know, it's not and it's also not necessarily the material itself that could be challenging.
It's the volume.
So I mean, me personally, since I got into the old dental game pretty late, I did shadow,
but I didn't have much shadowing experience.
And like I said, I kind of took a leap of faith with this first year, year and a half, I struggled a lot.
I'm not going to lie.
It took me a while to understand concepts.
You know, I had all my friends who did assist in, you know, things like, I don't know, like,
like, pouring alginate impressions, making models, it was a little bit easier for them and it was very difficult for me.
So I kind of just, you know, told myself that this is part of the process and, you know, it's not that bad or anything.
It's just that I don't have as much experience.
You know, something I would suggest is, like, definitely try to get as much experience as you can before coming into dental school.
It's not required, but it's going to help a lot.
And I'm telling you that firsthand.
For the first year and a half or so of dental school, I definitely had a lot of self doubt.
I struggled a lot.
But you know, the thing is, when you have peers and friends here, like, everyone really cares about each other, you know,
everyone wants everyone else to succeed.
And so like, there's a lot of things that I've learned from my friends that, you know, if it's a certain technique,
like after learning from them, it's something that I kind of have with me now to take on.
But it was more so during the pandemic where I personally had more time to get my stuff together.
I reviewed a lot of basic stuff we were taught for the first one and a half years or so.
And also just practiced a lot more in the lab.
And over time, I kind of just got a lot better and I started to have more passion for the profession itself.
So I mean, if there's one thing I could say, it's that it's like, don't don't beat yourself up if you don't get something on the first try.
Or even if it takes a lot of tries to get it, it's part of the process.
And for me personally, like I'd rather fail 100 times than get lucky and pass, you know, it's a huge learning curve.
It's a learning process, but the four years are going to fly by and it's totally worth it.
Right. So how did you like manage your social life and how'd you just how'd you get that good time management throughout your throughout dental school?
Yeah, so it was probably around second year because first year I struggled a lot, right?
And then second year in the beginning of second year, I was kind of thinking about how I can do better, right?
I in a way had to sacrifice a little bit of my social life, right?
But second year, I actually became more involved in dancing because I kind of told myself, I was like, OK, if I if I really want to dance,
then I have to do better in school and I have to really manage my time to get better grades and just develop better habits and better techniques, right?
Because, you know, like in first year, you're all with your friends, you know, you're going to say you're going to study at the library for hours and half the time, you're just chilling, right?
Like, that's I think that's how it is in the beginning.
So second year, I kind of had to cut out my social life a little bit and use my motivation to do a lot better.
So literally, my schedule was second year, I would be in class from eight to five, five to eight, 30.
I would study really hard and at dance rehearsals, like eight, 30, 11, 30.
And that was like basically my day.
So I had to sacrifice my social life, especially on the weekends.
I took a lot of time to study and catch up on things.
And like surprisingly, my grades actually improved dramatically after this.
So I think it's just it's just all about learning how to prioritize and learning what it is that you're weak at and what you want to get better at and try to make that into a string.
Yeah, I think I kind of touched on like time management.
Yeah, I mean, if you set blocks of time to study and then you have class before you study after and you just really enjoy at the end of the day.
I feel like, you know, your brain kind of goes to sleep restful because you're doing something and then you really love to do.
Right. So I think, you know, whether that be like going to the gym or just playing basketball or something like that, the answer is really good thing to end the day off.
You don't want to be, I don't know, are you the kind of person to study like late at night or kind of more like a daytime person to study here?
I'm not, I would say I'm a morning person.
In the beginning of school, I definitely was not a morning person, but I kind of wanted to get in the habit of going to the gym in the morning.
You know, because I really feel like that pump gives you a lot of energy to take you through the day.
So after like about two weeks or so of trying to experiment with that, it wasn't easy in the beginning, you know, because who wants to wake up at like six o'clock.
But after kind of practicing that, I feel like I developed myself into a morning person.
So I don't really like studying late at night.
I think it just, it just doesn't really work for me.
So what is something you wish you knew before like dental school?
Was it, you know, like what, what did you feel like you should have known until you'd be like better prepared?
I just wish I got more experience, honestly.
Yeah.
Yeah. Again, like experience is not, it's not required, but it will help you a lot.
Like things like I think if you can identify what a cavity looks like on an X-ray, we learned that in first year, you know, if you can, if you, that's something that you already know ahead of time.
If you know the types of teeth that we have in our mouth, you know, like the insiders, anions, premolars, molars, and you know, the names of the surfaces that are on teeth, just anything that you can kind of get your hands on and learn before dental school, it's going to be a huge plus for you.
So you, you talked about like your experience, you wish you had more.
I know like in dental school, I've heard about the wax ups you have to do.
Yeah. So everyone last one.
Yes. So how did you, you know, how are your hands skills going to dental school, your hand, eye coordination, like how'd you kind of, you know, make that better. It can't be as easy as playing a video game, but
Yo, my hands are trash.
So bad. I'll be that, that dude who was always like the last one to leave first one to enter and last one to leave because my hands are just that bad.
But I think just learning from, from your peers who know what they're doing, you know, and just kind of asking them to show you, I know, I really think the more times you do it, the more you start to develop new techniques and you start to see things that you
haven't seen before.
And it just takes time and patience. I really think that's what it is, especially if you're not getting good at it in the beginning. You just got to try to figure out what your mistakes are and try to figure out how you can make that but you know because
for for wax ups, we have all these different instruments that have a specific function right.
At the end of the day, you just want to try to figure out what works best for you like if this instrument that has this particular function if you don't like it for that function and you see a different benefit for it and use it for that.
You know, dentistry I've learned throughout the years it's very intuitive. You just got to try to figure out what works best for you.
Yeah, it's definitely good to know that you know not everyone starts at like the golden level when they start doing school right that's the whole point of going is to hone in on your craft and just kind of get better.
So how's the, how are your peers and helping each other, you know throughout this process are they is there a lot of competition or they just kind of is everyone just kind of helping each other do it in school, like how is that like, yeah I mean, I feel like everyone
is better than me, you know, and it does, it does get upsetting, you know, but I always try to think about it this way you know I am not in high school anymore you know I'm more mature than this you know I like rather than being upset about it you know ask them what works best for them.
And you know my friends are really open to helping I think because we're all kind of struggling together you know we all just want to be there for each other.
So yeah like, like one of my best friends, they call him like thank God.
And like he is literally always so happy to help, not just me but literally anyone who's struggling.
You know, and they're going to be people who are better than you there's going to be people were way better than you but I think you just kind of have to remind yourself that you got to think about this more maturely.
You know, rather than being upset about it try to ask them for help and see what you can do to be better.
Yeah, I think, you know, I mean someone like especially when your friends like guide you to dental school sounds like a really good thing and I think, you know, that's where you see that contrast between undergrad and like dental school I think dental school
is those, you know that they all deserve to be here. So they're willing to help each other know like this competition but there's not it's not like the toxicity you might see in like an undergraduate pre med pre dental environment.
You know it's something that I've, you know, heard about over the past couple years and weeks.
So I kind of wanted to ask you did feel a little bit behind while you're in dental school but you ended up founding a process on us club.
Can you talk a little more about you know how that came about you know what was the motivation we took behind that and like how's that going.
Yeah. So, it was probably around the pandemic where, because you know right before the pandemic I was still in this phase where I didn't know if dentistry was actually for me because I was just having a really hard time with the you know.
And so with the time that we had during the pandemic I just sat down and started reviewing a lot of my old lectures. And I think I was more so focused on learning process better both fixed and removable because those are the current courses that we were taking at the time.
And I just did not have a good understanding of those two. But you know as I started to review it more my grades and those classes improved significantly and, and by the time the pandemic ended I was like wow I like literally cannot wait to go back to our lab courses for both fixed and
removable because I think now I kind of understand what it is that I have to do to get better. And so when I, when I got back I didn't improve significantly with my head skills in those courses. And then down the line, I started to that that specialty just kind of like I just got drawn to that specialty
and it's one of those specialties where I was very weak at in the beginning. Right, but then it's something that I wanted to get a lot better in and I guess I'm the type of person who wants to make a weakness into a strength, you know.
So that's something that really drew me to it and I wanted to learn more about it. And I was just thinking about all the clubs that we had in the school, you know we have the perio club the end of club the local public in my head I was like I don't see a
lot of people here. So, so then I just talked to one of our faculty, and I asked her she'd be willing to start it with me, got an entire executive board together and then we had a few lectures, and some events and that was really awesome.
I am a resident now so I'm not in charge of the prospect anymore but I did.
I guess pass the torch on to someone who I know is going to take really good care of the club.
Right so you've been achieving all these great things you're done in school so what qualities you think you're an undergrad have really that you've really taken and developed as your new continued general school like what qualities and skills have you really just been using that you've learned from undergrad
in general school now.
I think definitely communication I think is a big one. And being open to collaborating, right because now that I'm in residency right I'm in general practice residency I'm going to be working with period on this and the donists process on this or the donists.
So, throughout my years of just trying to make more connections with people. That's something that I think it's, it's, it's something that I'm trying to keep, keep in mind of more so that because I know it's, it's a very important quality you know.
So I think that's probably one of the biggest skills that I'm trying to be more aware of, making sure my communication skills are up there.
And other personal skills.
I think this isn't really a skill but I think mentoring is something that's really important to keep in mind also.
Now that you've been through the whole four year process of dental school I think you kind of have a responsibility to help those who are looking to apply.
And, you know, just kind of guide them through the process, especially if they reach out to you, so you know what kind of works, you know, doesn't work for you. So, I guess that kind of falls into like the category of just being more open minded.
So, I would say being more open minded and communication is two really important skills.
I think communication, you know dentistry is such like a social practice that, you know, if you don't get communication, your patients might not you're like, you know, like the New York trustee as much you need to be sure to, you know, because I mean it's a very like valuable.
It's a very valuable service like you know they're paying a lot of money to get this done in the trust and you know, given the right diagnosis. So I kind of want to ask you like how did it feel, you know, I was it D3 or D2 D3 years
when you were with my patients. It was the end of me to start.
So how does it how did it feel like start saying you like your first patient and kind of, you know, being responsible for that person for however long you had them for.
Yeah, I mean, I guess when I saw my first patient I was like, well, I have no idea how to talk to my patient.
I don't know what to say. I don't really know what I'm doing, but I kind of got to sound like I know what I'm doing.
So I mean it's definitely, it's definitely nerve wracking like there's no doubt about it, you know, but I think it kind of goes back to if you're being yourself.
You want to make sure the patient's comfortable, you know comfortable with you and I think just by being yourself, making sure you're looking out for them and kind of reassure them that, you know what you're doing is best for them.
And you're going to get a lot of different types of patients, you know, patients who are easy to talk to patients who are hard to talk to patients who are quiet, since we're more social.
You kind of, I guess the way I, I looked at it is, I tried to gauge the, like the type of person my patient is, and I guess I tried to orient myself towards that person so if they were very social and I tried to figure out very social, you know, if I find out they like music, play some music for them.
And kind of just kind of gauge the patient.
Yeah, so how did it feel, you know, trans transferring from, you know, working on a mannequin and type of it on to work in an actual people was like scary what kind of what kind of feelings we feel in there.
I feel like no matter how many times you practice on a type of it on or a mannequin, you're always going to be nervous for your first patient.
And I think that's just the reality of it.
I mean, I would still recommend, you know, just definitely practice more if you don't feel like you're comfortable practice more before you do it on your first patient but faculty, especially a storybook are always there to help you and guide you, you know, they'll take you step by step.
And patients also understand that it is a school, you know, but you know, it's reassuring to them as well that back to you're there so definitely asking your faculty for help.
Taking things one step at a time, you know.
So it is nerve wracking and being but the more you do it, the more comfortable you get.
You know you get your for you get your patient. How long do they give you for each appointment like how does it work, you know, for like a filling a crown was like the difference.
Um, so I think.
So while you're in second and third year. As Tony book also you're kind of responsible for booking your own patients you're responsible for contacting your patients and booking the appointments.
I think they, you kind of have to see so there's two sessions of the morning session, but in the afternoon session and for the second and third year you kind of have to have a one patient on each in each session so one patient in the morning and afternoon.
And in the fourth year you kind of have more freedom, you know, because fourth year you, you can kind of, we have a different pre doc clinics, sort of say, we have the general pre doc clinic right but we also have specialty based pre doc clinics which is the peri
focused pre doc clinic, the prosthodontics focus pre doc clinic where, you know, in your second and third year if you're doing a peri procedure or a process procedure you have to work with that specific faculty.
But in fourth year, they kind of treat everyone as general vented so in fourth year you can do even some of those advanced cases that are cross focused to peri focused in the general clinic.
So by the time you're fourth year you kind of have a lot more freedom and leeway in terms of how you want to organize your patients.
So you know if you, if you say have to take alginates on one patient right, and you have time to do a filling on another patient, you can kind of do that but it's more so during fourth year you get that freedom to see more patients in one session.
So I'll just add to you about sunny brick school done a medicine itself. You know what kind of jury to the school. When you're applying.
Honestly, I think digital dentistry is one of the biggest things that the school has our lab technician.
Within the past two or three years he literally created this entire lab that's devoted to digital technology. So we have so we have a lot of different scanners we have
different sewing machines to help build crowns and restoration we have 3D printers.
You know, and our lab technician has so much knowledge in this area where, you know, I, looking back I just wish I took more advantage of it, you know I am so heavily involved in it.
And I think that's one of the key things about Tony Brooke. Other than that the faculty student ratio is, they're important thing. 40 students per class, and you probably in clinic have sometimes 67 faculty for those 40 students, and just having that extra
wild type of experiences is amazing. And the thing about Sony Brook I think it since the school is so small it just feels like a family, you know,
there's like a family atmosphere, you know, doing your hard years and Sony Brook. So I kind of want to talk about you know we kind of finished the dental school, like experience.
How has residency been I know it's only been a couple, you graduated in May correct. Yeah. So how long, you know, did you start right away after you graduated or was it a couple weeks like how did that.
So, for me it was a couple weeks, you know, I think because of the pandemic not everyone walked on the same day but everyone kind of has a different date on their diploma for graduation so I mean I was still seeing patients even after I
walked because I just wasn't done with all of my requirements and all my patient care. So, by the time I graduated I probably only had two weeks of break.
Whereas people who graduated on time had about a month or a little bit longer than that. And so I mean the schedule is definitely rigorous for residency because not only are we seeing patients straight from nine to five but we also have
hospital call hours. So this month alone we're on call. Each of us are on call like eight times. And there's day call and night call. So day call is seven am to 5pm whereas night call is 5pm to 11am but you can get called back up until 7am.
So there could be people out there who have days that are nine to five and then they're on call from five to 11. Whereas like five to 11 you're required to be in the hospital, you can leave after that but again you can call back anytime.
And so other than that you know we have lectures sometimes before clinic starts and during lunch. I definitely like residency more in the aspect that we don't have to book our own patients. You know our front coordinators they have our backs and they
book our patients for us. Of course if there's any changes that we want to make in the schedule we can do that we would just tell them to do those for us.
And a lot of things, actually something else that people I guess like about GPR is that you don't have to do all your own lab work. You can just send it out.
Me personally I'm trying to do lab work still just because it's something that I want to get better at because you know down the line if a patient comes in and you know you need to fix something up on the spot like you can have, you know how to
troubleshoot things like that. So that's just why I want to try to continue doing lab work.
And you know the other thing about residency is that we have assistance professionally trained assistants who got our back also who helped us and anytime we need help.
I feel like in dental school you literally have to do everything by yourself.
You know you have to book your patients by yourself you have to.
A lot of times you may not even get assistance, because you know all students are kind of seeing their own patients.
And setting up your base, breaking down the base, we still set up and break down our base in residency.
But it's you know you feel like you're actually working in a private office now that you have assistance there to help you and you know it's you have the front desk coordinating your patients for you.
So, in that aspect it's definitely better.
So yeah it's definitely a little bit early for you know pre dentals and undergrad to think about residency but you know as they get to dental school.
It's something they think about. So can you just give us a little rundown of how the residency process works like applying and you know how the residency it's past and it's also by idea.
So it literally looks exactly like the dental school application but it's just for residency.
So it's pretty straightforward and it's actually really simple in that aspect because I mean access, like no one likes applying right but access at least kind of tip that we organize and it was just easy to follow.
So it's literally the same thing.
For residency, I mean some schools don't use the pass application they kind of have their own thing.
But the other thing that actually it's actually different is that there's match for residency.
So, rather than having a school telling you that you're in, like how it is for dental school and you could kind of choose which school it is you want to go to all the schools that you apply to an interview at, you actually have to rank them.
So that school ranks the applicants. So it's like if your first choice is this school but that school put you as like their fourth choice, you're less likely to get in.
Yeah, I've heard of that ranking system.
It seems kind of like scary. I mean, you know, like you're not really sure.
You know, second guess your rankings and they could like get you differently so yeah.
Yeah, definitely. So I just want to ask like what so you know during dental school might have three or four hour appointments during residency like is that the same same amount of time you have or is it kind of different and like what kind of things have you seen, maybe some things you haven't seen before, or
you know, things you have to kind of figure out on the spot.
I mean, in the in the beginning since we just got out of dental school the coordinators give us a little bit more time for each appointment. But as I'm like looking ahead of my schedule I'm noticing that I'm getting less and less time for each appointment and getting maybe two or three patients in one session.
So it's kind of forcing me to not not having to rush through treatment but just teaching myself how can I be more efficient and still provide good care, you know.
And I know in the beginning it's going to be tough trying to see three patients on one setting, but it's something that I am looking forward to because like I said the more times you do something, the more times you, the more times you start to develop new techniques and think of things that can make your
experience a little better.
And so I was other question was kind of like what you know what things that we've seen that you haven't seen before, you know, procedure wise.
Yeah, yeah. I think something that I wasn't the most confident. And after graduating dental school was how to manage dental emergencies you know so patients in pain, how you go about that.
Right. So I think that our hospital rotation is really help out with that.
So, you know patient comes in pain.
You can prescribe antibiotics you can give them an injection to help relieve the area. You can do incision and drainages where if they have an abscess you can just kind of relieve that area for a little bit, and then they can come back to our clinic if they need it to extracted.
You know, so I think dental emergencies is something that is really something it's something that I'm just looking forward to on handling, you know, because you want to make sure that your patients aren't in pain.
Yeah, no, it's really good insight. You know, I kind of our goal was to have you touch on everything about dentistry because I know you're like in that in that part of your life where you just finished out of school now you're in residency you kind of like in that, I guess, you're jumping
that that bridge towards a professional life. Thank you, you know a lot for telling us, give us valuable information.
So, if you have any questions, please reach out to you for further advice or any questions like you can drop your Instagram handle, you know your dance page anything like that. Yeah, I would say the best way to kind of contact me is my Instagram page.
Just get me on Instagram I can drop the handle here at oil moves.
And that concludes our episode of the dos and don't podcast. Thank you, Dr. Goyal for joining me and sharing your experiences. Your insight was definitely valuable and I hope that will be the same for potential listeners.
Everyone, please feel free to reach out to Dr. Goyal as socials if you have any further questions. Lastly, we think everyone for listening if you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to follow us on Instagram and Spotify.
We'll see you next time for the dose of that.