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Talking about small businesses, I mean we we work with small businesses and the ultimate small business would be like a little mom and pop shop

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So if you had a little like boutique or something like that, what would you sell?

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You like a fishing store or a little art store?

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IT

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Well, it is kind of funny, I mean I feel like that probably it but I'm

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I'm a nerd so it would probably be something gaming related would be my alternative my wife is in

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The floral industry and she's always said that she would love to have a floral shop with me

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Which is not my interest so I would be more like flowers and gaming somehow

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We gotta have the guys have to have a place to go and find something interesting while the ladies are shopping. I

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Don't know. I I did always say that if I get burned out from cybersecurity

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I want to go work in a greenhouse, so I might be over there in the flower section

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so

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I'll be your I'll be your wife's first customer over there

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I was gonna say probably some type of like garden center

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was gonna be my answer, but

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I'm also a geek and so I

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Feel like I could possibly go try and buy up all the super old

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connections for like computers and just to

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Make it available where if you can't can't find something at you know target or something like that come here and I'll help support your

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Wildly old technology and that one very obscure cable that you've been looking for forever. I might have it

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Don't want to support old technology here at work, but

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It'd be fun just to try and find the most obscure connections and cables and cards and all that kind of stuff

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I'm sure we still got floppy disks in the office somewhere. We need to be able to read what's on them. I

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Smaller micro-center, but yeah fun fact. I used to work for a company that is still using micro-fiche, so

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How about you August

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for me it would be I

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I will take the sports advocate route and do a

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Trading card and collectibles and like memorabilia store

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We had one up where I went to college and I spent a pretty solid amount of time there me and the owner were on a

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first-name basis and I

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Even I guess I should have even worked there because I spent so much time there, but that would probably be it for me. I

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Know where everything is yeah pretty much

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What are you Kelsey? I

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Think I have to go so much stereotypical and say bookstore like a cute little bookstore

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Anybody's ever been in a wild rumpus in Minneapolis or Lyndon Hills technically neighborhood. It's in there's like

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Animals and cats walking around and I'm like yes not to bring it back to my crazy cat ladies self

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But yeah, 100% I'm like oh cozy reading nooks and the smell of books and then random furry animal

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That was like yep. I wasn't doing this. I'd be doing that

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That's a good one. I

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Came up with this question and I feel like a good answer. I I

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Like to go to like the candle shops just because I like to smell all the candles

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Um, so maybe something like that or I like so

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candles are like honey

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Yeah, like little interesting like food items, you know that you can't get anywhere else

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I think that would be fun to do mostly because that's the stuff I want to buy

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You know, I just I'll buy a well store and I want a candle. Yeah, 100%

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Yes

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Kelsey you like knit or crochet right you do one of them, right? That's a good

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Answer I was gonna say cuz that in still water there used to be a yarn shop and you would go there and just watch

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You know a bunch of the ladies just sitting around in a circle

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you know having their conversation and

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Creshing or knitting and that seemed like a lot of fun, right and so

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Yeah, I don't

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But that would be a nice cute little location, right?

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I'd still be

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Next to the candle shop and then across the street will have all of your shops and the women can not to be stereotypical

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Everybody can go both sides of the street y'all

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Yeah, I

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Love it. I love it. Well talking about small businesses. I mean that is

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The world that we service and today we're talking about protecting your small business

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Specifically with ham solutions. So today

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Kelsey and myself are joined by Todd our COO and CISO

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Nate our director of cybersecurity in August our soft technician and I'm gonna throw a challenge

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I

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Want like in 30 seconds so short

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What is a

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Pam solution and then we can go in deeper

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Zero chance neither Nate or I can do it in 30 seconds. I think it's gonna have to be August

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Me alright

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Pam standing for privileged access management basically locking down your environment from

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having

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local admin running on your device

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for all users so they can't run any programs as

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administrator or have those elevated rights to make changes to your

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computers such as

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Unblanking

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Like your

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Your registry editor or opening PowerShell or command prompt or stuff like that. So

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I

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Did it that's awesome

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And that's the end of the podcast thanks for coming

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Where's my outro music

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So if you had to expand on that because I know that Todd and Nate are both like itching to expand

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What would you sort of add to that? I?

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Guess one of the main things there is that

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Allowing

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End users to have full admin access to their systems is extremely dangerous

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You know and that's not me trying to

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Overplay the importance of a Pam and it's also you are talking to a security person

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Right and I is kind of one of those core foundational things

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But people don't always understand the true severity of it and so

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This is one of the things where it's goes far beyond just that the users could potentially make a change to

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their system right or install news software on that system as well, but

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We know that you know fishing attacks have been greatly on the rise over the years

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A lot of different metrics that you can look out there

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But you know we do see it continue to spike up especially during the shift to remote workforce

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But as this is happening

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There's core data and files on your system that manage credentials

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So your your devices they store passwords temporarily

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So that way they can either minimize the number of

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Minimize the number of passwords that someone has to type in to be able to log in but then also

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in terms of how do you log in offline right if you have no internet can you still get in there

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There's a tax and I'm not going to go into depth of them called like past the hash attacks where if someone had local admin

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They had someone potentially get into that device

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You can take those administrative credentials and then go log straight into the most privileged servers in the environment

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And so a normal user wouldn't typically intend to do that

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But it makes it extremely easy to bypass all other security controls in the environment just because they have local admin

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Yeah, I'll

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Back up a little bit. I we do love our acrimonial so we did Pam with thankfully August explain explained it

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I know we get into SMB to which is small and medium businesses

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But kind of backing up on the privileges is

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Most people probably feel what privilege access looks like in the form of the UAC control and I it's just an acrimon

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I could tell you couldn't tell you what it is access control, but I don't know what it is user access control

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I believe

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And what that is is like when you get a new software you're gonna install quick books or or the latest and greatest

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Turbo tax on your own home PC you go to install and it pops up and says hey

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Are you sure you want to do this?

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And of course everybody says yes without thinking about it that is the initial kind of control that Windows puts into it

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Unfortunately, the bad guys are incredibly clever and they go

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How can I abuse everything which gets into the stuff that Nate was talking about on the deep level of past the hash and other types of things?

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But essentially the reason why a lot of people tend to have administrative rights is because it's convenient

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I want to update my version of Adobe whatever the case may be

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Chrome is bugging me for an update whatever that may be those types of things are just hitting yes, please move on and stop bothering me

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It's very very convenient

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We have some very technical individuals on our team and it's no surprise that they all want to have the privileged access to do what they want

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They're smart enough not to click on the bad thing etc. That being said as Nate said we're super paranoid

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We're not okay with that you're gonna have to deal with some of some layer of friction just to slow you down enough

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So you don't click the thing and get us into trouble

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So on the deep level the reason you have privileges because it allows you to do everything right?

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It gets you the ability to do the install the bad side of it is it's exactly what August and Nate were saying is you can do a whole

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Bunch of stuff with admin you can edit the registry you can install additional things you didn't mean to do

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The level of abuse that can be had from having admin privileges as they call it the keys of the kingdom for a reason

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So I think we could dive deeper into like benefits and challenges but before we do that

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You know oftentimes I'll ask

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So does everybody need this and then the answer is always yes so I'm gonna pose it in

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Is there is there anyone like my little mom and pop shop that has like five employees?

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Is this still right for that or is there?

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Kind of a line where yes, you should have it or no, it's not maybe not right

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Who needs this? Well, we're insecure. So the answer is yes. Everybody needs it

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So

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The reason why there is a such a solution as privilege access management is because to be safe

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You really shouldn't use that admin privilege day in and day out and for the most part

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You really don't need that you don't need the keys to the kingdom to open up a word document or answer your email

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Whatever the case may be and so if you had the ability to say day in and day out

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I'm gonna use an account called Todd, but when I need to install software

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I'm gonna log in as Todd admin that would be ideal most people aren't willing to do that. That's inconvenient

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So the tool itself is a process of automating that transition for you

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So you can be logged in as Todd normal user and it says hey, are you sure you want to do this?

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This tool is intercepting that and saying I have the ability to make sure it's a secure transaction

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Without giving you full blown access to everything. So my answer is yes

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But I'll let the other two expand on that or disagree with me if that's the case that may be

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I would say also yes

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Kind of going off on Todd there since small and medium businesses are the most

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attacked surfaces for

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Businesses I would say that they would would be a higher risk than some of those enterprise levels

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So

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Yeah, what one expansion on that is the enterprise probably already has it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly

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my answer is it

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Depends and I'm gonna default more towards the yes

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There are some very slight things that I could see where you maybe decide not to and Todd already

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touched on a briefly is if you're willing to do the due diligence on

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Removing those and ensuring that you aren't running something malicious

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But it quickly

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Starts to fail when you start talking about the

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Long-term usability of that. So for example, maybe you are a very small organization and there's one person there

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That's allowed to do the permissions to be able to elevate or install new software

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What happens when they're on vacation? What happens when they're sick? What happens, you know in those instances?

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Does the business have to stop?

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to do something basic because at that point you're not a

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Proving new common

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item so for example, it could be a

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Google Chrome update. It could be a driver update. Maybe you're

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The the wireless is a little finicky. Maybe a USB driver needs to be updated

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Updating just the OS it to the latest and greatest security patches, right something basic like that

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As soon as you're gone from the office, it becomes extremely difficult and then it does start

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Prompting you fairly often if you're trying to do some of this basic stuff

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again, that's where Todd said that

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When you implement something like a PAM solution it can go

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pull from global policies and global

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items saying that I know that any time something is an

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8 signed by HP or Dell for those driver updates just automatically let it through you there is no extra prompt

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Anytime there is a Chrome update or a security update to the system allow those through

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without

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consistently inundating the end users for admin credentials so

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You can get through it without it. It's just more of a burden on the administrative side

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Yeah, definitely. So we've talked a little bit about what it is and who needs it

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These are we touched a little bit on the benefits and some on the challenges if you want to you know

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We've talked about NFA before and that that's such an easy

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cost-efficient

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Everyone needs to do that. Is there any

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Any challenges that people are going to face trying to implement this?

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What does that look like if a business says yes, let's do it. What do they do? I?

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Yeah, August I'd say

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You probably have the most experience actually helping implemented but

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Small and BDMI I'd say are pretty dang easy to get this implemented

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But I'll let you go into more depth there

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Yeah, it is kind of going off of what Nate was saying about usability and when your

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Admin is gone or out sick. It's when a user is trying to install something like even a SaaS solution

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and

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Just a basic install if they're out of office

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You can't get that installed and if you don't have an overarching MSP

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You know, I would say that it's a little bit of a challenge to be managing your IT. It can be very frustrating for a user to not be able to do their basic job. So

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I would say that could be a limitation of just

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Availability to the user to get their work done

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But I

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Would say that

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It's still pros and cons pros still outweigh the cons at that point, but yeah, I would say a hundred percent availability is the limitation

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Yeah

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Housekeeping sass is software as a service

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When it comes to SMB is I don't want everybody to just focus solely on mom and pops because those do exist and that to me

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There's they still mention rights. I mentioned my wife runs a flower shop. Could she use it? Absolutely

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But other places where you may see a little bit more friction as we do work with a fair number of banks that may be in that smaller category

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And then sometimes they outsource some of their tools to a larger organization or their core banking

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This is referred to and in some of those cases

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There are things that happen in the background of some of their systems that in the cybersecurity world you would consider to be malicious

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And for example

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One tool in particular when you launch it it tries to run this is a little bit older technology

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They call it a batch file and it triggers this this tool on the outside of the application to run if you will and that is typically not

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something you want to do in the cyber world and

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Fortunately, unfortunately, whatever in this particular instance that is normal behavior for that particular tool set

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So there is nuance in it if you just went in you install the PAM solution

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It may keep you from doing some of those kinds of things going

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Hey, that's not normal that that other thing shouldn't require that permission

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And you just need to work through it

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But the tools are designed in such a manner where they understand that modern work happens at a different pace and that the full

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Belong bring in a company to its knees is not all right. So there's usually kind of a

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Monitoring process if you will be formed doing a full implementation that you can kind of walk through

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And of course you can always rely on experts like August to help get you up to speed as fast as humanly possible

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Yeah, one of the things that I did one mention as well as

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Especially the small medium businesses that are in a regulated space Todd did mention this with the core banking

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But one of the main challenges that

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You see in these different industries is that the auditors the regulators they will say

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You are not allowed to give your users local admin, but then your critical core system

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Requires admin to be able to run effectively or maybe even start

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CIT we use to use an application for all of our remote access

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It required local admin

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but for our own

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Own compliance we can't do that right so there's a conflict there and that's where the tool comes in and can solve

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both of those issues

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That's where again we do that with the banks we do that with other

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Some of the manufacturing firms I know that sometimes they will have

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Software in order to allow the shop floor to run or do AutoCAD designs maybe to create the next

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Product there those ones typically require admin to be able to go modify some of the registry files when there's a new update

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again, that becomes an issue and so

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That's where again these these solutions are just a very nice middle layer to

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Solve the interaction between the user and the system without really getting in their way too much. Yeah

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So it's been a very

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kind of basic overview it

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Is there anything about

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These PAM solutions either

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Benefits or challenges or implementation

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That you want to dive a little bit

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I know we're kind of running out of time and we'll definitely come back to this in the future

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But is there anything that you want to add or cover as we kind of finish up here?

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I would say just implementation wise

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It's a pretty easy rollout for most organizations since like I think Todd was touching on it briefly of

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When the applications get rolled out into your environment that your PAM solution normally like

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Learns your environment at that point and then you can make edits within there look at what's being

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Denied what's being allowed and then also

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What applications are running that local admin? I think there's a podcast about

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Banks and what applications they're running as local admin and I I know that it's nice to make those edits to lock down your environment

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But give that one application local admin. I think as well as what Nate was touching on so

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Implementation is pretty easy

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Learning your environment is easy and then switching it on when when you're all said and done so

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Yeah, we don't get into it often but but the whole point of the podcast is really education, right?

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So when it comes to streamlining the implementation, there is a benefit of working with an organization like CIT

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As we're talking about tools like this August is giving you the guts of this is what it can do

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This is how it can do it and we've learned a lot about it

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The nice thing about teams like us is we work with a lot of banks

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So if we know what I was talking about earlier, whether it's a it's a batch file or something along those lines

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We can take that knowledge and apply it to all of the banks and we can create global policies if you will and we can say

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This is the standard best practice for a bank if you will that is incredibly

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Benefit and it will absolutely streamline the process of implementation

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And it'll get you in the best place as fast as possible as I mentioned a little bit earlier

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one other little challenge that I know comes up often is

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Because every organization is at their own journey their own level of maturity

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Sometimes it's not something you may have planned for and as such you just kind of got to go

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Okay, well, what does that look like?

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What is this costing look like and if you can't forward it today?

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Start thinking about how you budgeted into the next year because it is something that is important

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As I mentioned in that journey aspect

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There's a 1a1b that we talk about constantly and that's a EDR and MFA get those in place as fast as reasonably possible

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And then we start talking about what's next and this is one of those items that definitely falls in that category of what's next I

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Was gonna make a joke here because I

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So for those just listening to the audio Todd and I are wearing the same shirt here today

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but then I was just about to start talking about how

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At the same the shameless plug of we work with all these different organizations that are in similar spaces

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so

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That is one of the main benefits of if you're gonna look to work with you know, CIT for a solution like this

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So August had mentioned that typically these PAM solutions

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They'll go learn your environment not all of them do that and so that's

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Another differentiator is there are solutions out there that can accommodate this but it's a very manual on

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Inventoring all your systems finding out what software what drivers who would you know other applications are there?

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What devices is it running on and then you have to go manually build all these policies?

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That's why CIT found the solution that we did we use it internally

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We you know work with all these other organizations to also do that

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and then

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Like Todd mentioned is we have global policies. We have different

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subset of policies that you know, maybe only apply to your organization all the way down to you know a particular user on one workstation

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for those permissions, but

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That's the the benefit is if we ever see something like an HP update or something. That's just very basic

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It's everything checks out properly

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We can apply that at a global level potentially when

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Another customer requests it so then by the time you ever try and run that same piece of software

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It's just gonna allow it through there is no approval process or anything like that. So it's

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It's wildly efficient once you start taking a look at how this gets deployed in scale

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I feel like we went and we had quite a high overview and this is worth going into

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again in the future so

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if you

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Definitely check out our website watch our podcast for more information

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I'd like to thank Todd Nate and August for joining us today

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If you have questions about these PAM solutions, we want to talk to these people you want to learn more

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Please reach out to us at info at CIT-net.com or head out to our website at CIT-net.com

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CIT-net.com slash podcast and we'll be back next week with an all-new episode