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Welcome everybody to today's CIT Tech for Business podcast.

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Today we're sitting down with Todd and Kyle and we're talking about all things physical

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security.

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Why don't you guys kick it off by introducing yourself and telling us just a little bit

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about the history of physical security first SMDs.

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Hi, thanks, Kelsey.

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My name is Kyle Edderman, the President and CEO at CIT.

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And I am Todd Sorg.

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I am CIT's Chief Operations Officer and I am also the Chief Information Security Officer.

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I can do a real brief overview of physical security and then Kyle can kind of expand

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on it.

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So physical security has been around for decades.

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It's really what you've expected to be.

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Obviously there's many different layers of physical security that have gone on throughout

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the years.

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So if you're looking at the traditional things and you'll see this in a lot of traditional

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businesses, but it was fencing, it was how did you do landscaping?

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What does the lighting look like?

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Cameras on buildings, et cetera.

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And then things have just kind of been evolving as of late.

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So as you can start to see upticks in cybersecurity issues, you're starting to see physical security

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be a component of what's needed in today's modern defense as well.

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Yeah, I think that speaks to it.

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I think we're all familiar with your key locks, your key codes, your different ways to protect

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the perimeter physically around the side of it.

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And definitely a lot of modernization around that has been sorely needed because unfortunately

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people, nobody criticizes it until they need it or there's failure of it.

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And then they wonder how they ever got to that place.

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So I think it's very topical to speak through it given the state of events, last few weeks

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out of it within schools, but obviously other buildings, there's just a lot of it.

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It is I think an underserviced area that people take for granted or neglect.

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Just kind of out of sight, out of mind.

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Yeah, great.

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Just kind of giving some more history.

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I know traditionally the way that the tools have been deployed have been really for that

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physical security.

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It was really protecting the main things that organizations need, people, assets, that type

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of thing.

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I used to work in a manufacturing facility and the way that everything was was heavily

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controlled.

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The intruder was basically where the majority of physical security were focused.

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We did have some things that came into play.

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So obviously we did have cameras in place and whatnot.

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I kind of wanted to dig into this one in particular.

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I laugh because if you've been in any kind of business for quite a while, you've probably

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dealt with what I did.

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So my security system there was very disparate.

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So alarms are separate from the cameras, which is separate from badging, which is separate

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from so on and so forth.

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My camera systems, I tried several of them, really struggled with a lot of them.

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They're clunky.

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They're not intuitive.

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A lot of times the backups don't work.

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The recordings are muddled when you go back and try and define something in particular

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that can be difficult.

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Kyle, what have you seen in the industry?

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Yeah, kind of same.

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I think you usually see very antiquated technology driving many of the legacy systems.

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They have either very old or near end of life operating systems in the backside that drive

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these things.

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They tend to be outside the scope of a traditional IT support.

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They're usually handled by maintenance and then they present potentially cybersecurity

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risks because of that, because they're generally outside of the management side of it and they

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tend to be supported by a security company.

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Again, that isn't necessarily IT focused.

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They tend to be just mismanaged and underserved in multiple level sides on it and the technology

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seems a lot to be desired.

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Like you said, Todd, my experience looking at it is when you needed a video, they would

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go pull the video.

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Not only is it painful and time consuming to find the footage you're trying to find

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if there is some suspected incident, it takes forever to find.

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Then when you get it, it's usually so grainy and poorly viewable that you can't use it

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anyway.

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You just went through all this expense and setup and all these systems only to find out

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that you really couldn't use it anyway.

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That's kind of to my point where it just feels like it's out of sight, out of mind for many

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organizations when you start looking at it.

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It was a checkbox at some point where maintenance guys said we need a camera system.

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They went and found something.

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It's to be price point first and feature function is just not viewed.

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They just take it on a price basis and they put it in and hope they don't need to use

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it.

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That's just not an acceptable way to handle your physical security.

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It requires usability.

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Yeah.

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I love the checklist comment.

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If you've heard any of the podcasts previously, we talk about compliance an awful lot.

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Where you see strong physical security tend to be in those organizations where they have

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some sort of compliance already.

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That'd be your banking.

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That'll be some of the healthcare.

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One of the industries that's incredibly good traditionally with physical security is schools.

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However, we saw some issues last week that would prove that that's probably not nearly

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as strong as it could be.

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One of the things I wanted to go through briefly is there are some things that organizations

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that may be renting space as well will lean towards the landlord saying hey, you're the

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one that needs to make sure that the landscaping is in place, is there fencing in place, those

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kinds of things.

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Of course, you still have some things that you need to do to make sure that you work

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within their restrictions as well.

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Cameras, can I put them wherever I want, so on and so forth.

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That does create some potential issues as well.

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Going back to schools in particular, we do a fair amount of reviews of banks and schools

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and whatnot.

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For the most part, I would say that most of the schools are in a very strong spot.

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As things went into lockdown through COVID, you probably saw this across industry as a

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lot of physical security did take a tick up, but they do a very nice job for the most part

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of trying to make sure that they funnel kids through the front door.

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They do have a whole bunch of people that are locking down doors.

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You do have to come in, you do have to validate who you are, check in, et cetera, et cetera.

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There is a lot of stuff in there.

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However, since there's such a large group of individuals that are coming and going on

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a regular basis, it's really hard to ensure that the tools are in place.

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Of course, everybody knows schools have budget issues.

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It's very difficult to get everything that you need all the time.

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A lot of those are the human component of it as well.

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Yeah, I think that's very appropriate.

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You just deal with so many.

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The schools have very good security from what you go through.

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As you get to the backside, there's just an advancement technology that they could benefit

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from that would provide different, taking it beyond just the perimeter doors and having

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sensors and other solid cameras in the schools and having accessibility to law enforcement

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and other sides outside the ability to easily share footage with public safety.

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I know we're going to bring it up.

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We haven't necessarily always provided a lot of manufacturers, but we use Furcata as one

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we use side of it.

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One of the great features of this, it's a cloud-based solution.

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It does allow for the ability to easily share a link to live cameras with outside entities.

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In the case of a school where you have an incident occurring within a school, the ability

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of law enforcement to have eyes in the school live to be able to see would allow for proper

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assessment of what exactly is going on.

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They don't have to guess.

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They could have live footage available to them easily.

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In most schools, the camera systems are behind the doors of the school.

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Very limited visibility into it.

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There's just some nice powerful use cases of why this updated technology makes a lot

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of sense.

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Touching on that, some of the things that we've seen over the last several years is,

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again, no surprise if you're in the industry and technology in any case, in any case, in

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fact, your daily lives, 4K is a thing, right, so 4K cameras are a thing.

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If you're looking for that in specific areas, whether that's entrances or your parking lot,

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for example, at CIT, we've got a 4K camera facing the main entrance to our building so

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we can pick up license plates if we needed to.

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Again, if we had a scenario where we wanted to share that kind of feedback to somebody,

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the police for example, we could absolutely do that.

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We can timestamp it and quickly scroll to it, etc., etc.

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That type of technology has ramped up dramatically.

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Kyle touched on sensors as another area where we've seen a dramatic improvement.

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Kyle mentioned Fricata.

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I want to expand on it just a little bit as well.

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It's weird for me to say there is a disruption in physical security, but honestly, I feel

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like they've really done a nice job.

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They haven't looked at physical security as disparate components.

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It's not an alarm system that goes to whomever, ADT, alarm.com, whoever the case may be.

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I guess that's actually the same company, but you hit my point.

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That doesn't go separate.

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Then you've got your camera separate.

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Then you've got your sensor separate.

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You have your badging separate.

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They kind of looked at it as a complete thing.

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In fact, one of the fewer things that they just recently did, as you mentioned with the

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schools in particular, is they're starting to get into remote locks and system lock down

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and alarming and wireless alarming and all kinds of stuff.

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They're kind of taking a full view of the world and saying, what does physical security

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look like?

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I don't know if we need to summarize a lot of those pieces, but since I'm talking, I'll

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just keep going for a little bit.

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Where they really focus on and where we were really paying attention to it was the camera

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system.

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We've got the high-end cameras.

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They're new.

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They're up to date.

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The storage of it is all cloud-based.

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There's a local component of it too.

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That part is really not problematic.

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They do have badge access, which is really nice if you're looking at the integrations

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that go with it.

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You can use a specific badge access and tie that back to a camera.

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As I mentioned, the timestamps are there.

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I can look and see that that is the individual.

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I can go look at that camera, potentially get a picture of somebody if I needed to.

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I could see if tailgating is going on as an example.

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Then it goes a lot further too.

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We can get into sensors and what does sensor data look like.

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Can I go to a bathroom again towards schools and see if somebody was triggering a vape

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sensor in the bathroom?

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We can see who came and went and potentially narrow down the list of potential people we

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needed to talk to as an example.

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Yeah, I mean, there's just the modern systems that you see.

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Like the ricotta size introduces artificial intelligence into the side of it.

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It has facial recognition.

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It brings all these technologies together.

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It's IT-focused.

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It leverages the power of the cloud side of it for accessibility.

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That's really what makes it, I think, a disruptor side to it.

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The old traditional physical approach of just we're going to put a DVR in a room somewhere.

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We're going to just feed a bunch of data to it and just hope nothing happens to it.

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Todd mentioned backups.

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I mean, that's just not functional.

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It just really leads to a lot of headaches for the people and the users who try to access

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it and use it.

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There's just so much more value into looking at a more and a bigger holistic view of the

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value of the physical security, the information that it can provide.

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One of the use cases came out of the pandemic side of it was the heat mapping.

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Being able to load up having a floor plan of a workplace and being able to understand

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where people congregating at and it'll actually show you where it's detecting the most people.

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You know where people are congregating, where you're having large groups, areas of the building

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that are being used, areas that are not.

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It's just a lot of valuable information above and beyond just the security side of it, just

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the overall use of the building and seeing where people are being utilized, whether you're

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having congregations of people.

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If you ever wanted to know if Todd and I were ever together at a side of it within our system,

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they can use the facial recognition and detect where Todd and I were together.

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So it's just a lot of good connections, not that Todd or I are dating or anything, but

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just the ability side of it to be able to recognize where things are happening.

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There's just a lot of valuable use cases to the system far beyond just saying we think

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that we had a break in at 2 a.m.

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There's just a lot of other practical applications to it.

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Yeah, I kind of wanted to dig into the facial recognition because I do think it's something

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that is of potential concern for a lot of people.

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There is a privacy component of it and there are things that if you're looking at tools

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like Fercata or others, they are trying to solve business needs with it, but there is

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a privacy component of it too.

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So while it can be a bit pervasive where we're tying individuals to pictures and doing facial

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recognitions and seeing when people come and go, there are legitimate reasons to use it

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too.

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We talked about it in the school scenario, the deny list.

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If somebody comes in, they're trying to check a student out of the school and they're not

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on the database or they're a denied or they're a person of interest or something along those

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lines.

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Situations like that, that facial recognition is actually an incredibly powerful tool set.

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Speaking of which, I kind of wanted to expand on use cases.

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There's a lot of them.

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I've mentioned several, obviously the heat mapping for the pandemic.

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There are reasons potentially, again, this is more camera focused, but it does count.

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There's a people flow tool set that they're offering as well.

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So somebody like retail or potentially hospitality would have the capability of looking at what

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the flow of people looks like and potentially make changes to what's going on in that particular

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organization, whether that's how the retail flows and they want to move people through

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the building differently or whatever the case may be.

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Another one that I wanted to mention in particular is theft.

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Used to work at an organization that used to do a lot of storage outside and there was

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a lot of theft going on, the equipment that was external to the building.

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And while there were cameras in places, same struggle, right?

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It was recorded, but you're scrubbing through data hoping to find something that moves or

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ticks and modern tools have the capability of separating vehicles from people to et cetera.

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So I have the ability to dig into it specifically, but we deploy a solution like Ricotta and

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it has the ability to stop that theft and its footprints.

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They've also talked about how they're starting to work with the alarm company.

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So again, kind of that integrations with other tool sets where they can potentially react

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much faster.

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You can see an event before an alarm goes off or here's another great one.

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Use case where was triggering an alarm that a back door was being opened or something

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along those lines.

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Use the camera system, zip to that particular moment in time, see there's nothing going

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on internal building, external, there's no intruder.

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So it's probably a false alarm allowed the organization to do a deep dive into it and

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found out that the wind was causing the warehouse door to vibrate in and out.

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And that was what was triggering the alarm.

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But it's great to have that integration so I can figure that thing out without having

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to deploy the police.

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Yeah, there's just, it is, it is.

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If you've ever used those legacy systems and you move to one of these modern systems, look

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at it.

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Most people just get huge smiles just because of that quick ability to be able to just immediately

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see the information you're trying to look for, get it quick, share it easily, easily

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accessible and being able to access that information from remote that you're kind of talking about.

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I mean, you know, you always run into these issues where it's at 2am.

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And if you got to get out of bed, VPN into the office, and try to get on the DVR, and

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then try to go through it by, you know, that could take you 20 minutes.

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If somebody's in the building, they're probably up and gone in 20 minutes before you even

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told them to get to the police.

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A lot of companies are already calling you, you know, they don't, they don't stay on there.

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So you got, you only have a few minutes to be able to assess what exactly is going on

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before you ask for those police to go out.

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And if they come out frequently, you know, they're going to start charging you for it.

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So you know, being able to have something that's very quick and easy, something you

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pull up on your mobile phone, that's easy to get to be able to make an informed decision

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to say, I'm confident nobody's in the building, and be able to look at it.

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And it easily pays for itself.

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The modern systems are definitely worth more, but functionality is undeniable.

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I mean, it's, it's a whole nother stress here.

283
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Yeah, I agree.

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I'm sorry, Todd, not to interrupt, but I am anyways, I know we're talking a lot about

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sensors.

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So you mentioned vape detectors within schools.

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So what other sensors, you know, might be available out there that, you know, some industries

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would have some use cases for?

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Go ahead, Kyle.

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Oh, heat, temperature.

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You know, water, other particles, other air particles, so early smoke detection, those

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types of things, all environmental sensors, so you can detect a lot of those early motion

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sides of it.

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We tend to, you know, the restrooms in schools is typical for the vaping side of it, you

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00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,040
can detect vaping or smoking in the school sides with it, but it can go into server rooms

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and other areas or other temperature sensitive components in there.

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So you can have temperature alarms or other air particle changes in the environment that

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could be occurring to get off of those triggers.

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So there's a lot of, a lot of other potential nice uses for it.

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And again, if you, if you pair it with a camera, you now have easy view to say, I'm getting,

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00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,800
it looks like there's potential some smoke or some alarm in this room.

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Having a camera in the room, you can now put visuals on it too, to say, okay, is there

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something going on there or, you know, somebody leave a window open or something else.

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I mean, you can potentially pick up on something without you having to hop in the car, drive

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to the remote site, take a look and see what's going on.

306
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Yeah, the kind of expanding on sensors a little bit, there's, there's obviously humidity.

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So heat humidity, that would be good stuff for like your server rooms if they are secluded

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and segregated and secured.

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Hey, physical security, who'd have known?

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But it also has, I believe it's got a noise one as well.

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So manufacturing, it can get extremely loud on the manufacturing floor.

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And there are some requirements that organizations do need to be able to comply with in those

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situations as well.

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And so some sensors will help with those things in addition to one of the things that's really

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popping up more frequently, as you see more and more sensor data come into organizations

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is the ability to pull all that data and make sense out of it.

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That's getting an alert that says server room and I'll use CIT, the Woodbury office in that

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00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,120
particular server room is high, there may be some additional things that I would want

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to look at and potentially a desktop or a dashboard.

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00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,400
And so there, there are a lot of tools out there that are coming along and starting to

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help you visualize what that sensor data means and whether there's trending that goes with

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it and that type of thing.

323
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So you will know, did it spike?

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Did the AC unit die?

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Whatever the case may be.

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And of course, as you see smart buildings come along, that's a big thing that's going

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with it as well.

328
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,400
Yeah, absolutely.

329
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:34,360
One interesting use case that came out with the modern side was getting back into that

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00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:41,040
ability to share a link to a camera with an outside entity or a person side of it was

331
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,040
within a manufacturer side of that.

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00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:48,480
And they were a contract manufacturer and they're there wanted to use the cameras for

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00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,480
their physical security, but also be able to have cameras by the product areas where

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00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:58,800
are the on the floor where their products being manufactured and allow the company that's

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00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:04,680
contracting them to be able to visualize and see the product being made, you know, to use

336
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,720
that as a differentiator in the market.

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00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,760
So it's just a real unique use case of, again, using the cameras for security, but it also

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00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,420
then added some additional value for their, for their customers to be able to have visuals

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00:21:16,420 --> 00:21:19,800
and something easy to see that was just done through a web browser.

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And they can just have that live link for it.

341
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:27,440
So there's just a lot of cool things that just always keep kind of popping up because

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00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,440
of the unique capabilities of the product.

343
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:37,760
That's cool to have an ROI on one of your physical investment.

344
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,760
So one of the things I guess we should probably talk about too is the securing of a tool set,

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00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:48,960
especially since we're talking so heavily about a cloud-based tool that we use in particular.

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00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,120
What does that typically look like from your experience?

347
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:57,880
On the, on the access to the tools, the self side of it, you know, since it is cloud-based,

348
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:03,320
I mean, we obviously apply the same security structure that we do to any of our other cloud

349
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,320
system sides of it.

350
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,080
It has a multifactor, it's federated side of it.

351
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,960
So we have single sign-on and multifactor to access those sides.

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00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,200
We have, you know, we have logging up who accessed, there's tons of permission levels

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00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:21,880
to be managed by group assignment as far as allowing people to certain functions within

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00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:22,880
it.

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00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,160
So they can allow them just a certain set of cameras or all cameras or location sides

356
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,420
with it, same thing with the security.

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00:22:28,420 --> 00:22:34,700
So there's a lot of granular components to it to make sure that the product has security

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00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:37,560
of access, which obviously is very important.

359
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,560
Yeah.

360
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,240
And expanding on it briefly, we do integrate it with a lot of the other tools that we already

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00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:48,800
have, like Kyle mentioned for us, that make sure that what we are doing as our core infrastructure

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and security tools are all mapping all the way through the tool set.

363
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,080
So it is very robust.

364
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,520
And I'm sure several people saw there was an issue last year with Vercata in particular,

365
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,760
and at least worthy of discussing is they found an issue, they addressed it quickly,

366
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,680
their communication was strong, and because it is a cloud tool set, it really allowed

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00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,280
them to quickly pivot and resolve issues that are out there.

368
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:19,200
So that typical cloud, all of those things that you get from cloud environments directly

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00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,240
applied to a physical security tool set as well.

370
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,640
And again, the ability for them to address those issues and get on top of it was very

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00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,520
impressive from my point of view and still going strong.

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00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:37,000
Yeah, I think kind of the last part on the cloud subject side, Todd, and you mentioned

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00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,840
it briefly about having some local storage for these things, is the unique nature that

374
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,000
the storage is actually in the cameras themselves.

375
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,320
So when you're viewing, when you're actively going to a viewing session, you're going straight

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to the cameras.

377
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,440
So the amount of bandwidth that it uses to go to the cloud is actually minimal because

378
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,160
you're basically sending thumbnails, small subsets of the visible so you can understand

379
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:03,680
what's there unless you choose to archive to the cloud, which you can do.

380
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,480
It's using very limited bandwidth.

381
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,760
It's just small thumbnails.

382
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,140
And when you actively view, then you're using a live stream to that one camera you're viewing.

383
00:24:11,140 --> 00:24:15,480
So it's not actively constantly drawing a large amount of bandwidth, which I think is

384
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,800
just a very nice design structure to it.

385
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,520
You're segmenting out your storage by camera basis side with it.

386
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,360
And there may be certain cameras you want longer term storage with, and you can elect

387
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:28,360
to do that as well.

388
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:35,120
You can have certain cameras with larger storage and you can have longer retention and or obviously

389
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,880
you can still archive to the cloud at certain sites too.

390
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:44,040
So they really have a well thought out structure to how the handle going to the cloud because

391
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,040
as Todd mentioned, these are 4K cameras.

392
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:52,080
That could be a lot of bandwidth if you were not using some kind of local storage.

393
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:58,280
Yeah, so just closing thoughts from my part or from my point of view is I feel like there

394
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,080
is disruption going on in the industry.

395
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,800
It is not something that should just be taken lightly.

396
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,680
The nice thing about the modern tools is they can be deployed as needed.

397
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,780
So if you needed cameras, you can start with cameras.

398
00:25:08,780 --> 00:25:11,040
If you need badging, you can start with badging.

399
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:16,320
If you want to do guest sign on, you can do all of those things as subcomponents.

400
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,080
Or if you know you've got things that you need to complete, of course, the tool is capable

401
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,760
of joining all of those items together and will really give you a nice unified solution.

402
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,080
The other nice thing about the cloud is that new features come early and often.

403
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,000
It's quick for them to be able to deploy them and offer them to the customers as they see

404
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,040
things transitioning, which is pretty awesome as well.

405
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,640
Yeah, and in physical security, that's pretty much been unheard of.

406
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,960
You know, you just put it in there and 10 years later you may look at it again.

407
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,200
So it again tend to go unnoticed until they're needed.

408
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,920
But knowing that you have something that's constantly evolving and updating is, I think,

409
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:54,920
incredibly important.

410
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:55,920
Awesome.

411
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:56,920
Thank you, Todd.

412
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:57,920
Thank you, Kyle.

413
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:04,280
I think that's a lot to chew on and really there's a lot of features that just happened

414
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,280
in there.

415
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,480
So do know that we're always here for any and all questions.

416
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,560
Just via email at info at cit-net.com.

417
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,720
Also, we do have a lovely forum filled out on our website.

418
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:20,600
You can find all of our podcast episodes at cit-net.com backslash podcast.

419
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,440
These guys love to talk and I know today we went a little bit heavy into Mercado, but

420
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,440
only because we use it and we love it.

421
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,400
We do have a demo coming up on June 9th free.

422
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,360
We're not asking you to give us anything, but it is a really cool tool set.

423
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:37,640
I love peeking out and seeing the dashboard of just all the really cool things it can

424
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:38,640
do.

425
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:39,640
So by all means, go Google it.

426
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:40,640
Hit us up via email.

427
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,400
We're always willing to chat and we will look forward to chatting with everybody next week.

428
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,400
Thank you all.

429
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:47,400
Thanks.

430
00:26:47,400 --> 00:27:14,080
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