You're listening to a podcast of spurious morality.
Hello, and welcome to a podcast of Spurious Morality.
I'm Johnston, and with me this week, I have Mansour.
Hello. And we have Jimmy joining us as well.
Hello, Jimmy. Hiya, friend. So we're here to
talk about Wishworld, which is the latest episode
of season two of Doctor Who. first part of the
finale. But Jimmy's here because Susan has come
back and Jimmy wanted to talk about Susan. We
all want to talk about Susan coming back because
it's quite exciting and we still don't really
know where it's going, but that's something we
can discuss shortly. But first of all, we will
have a look at Wishworld, which I was there,
ready to go and more or less ate in the morning.
Got it on and found it to be a bit of a strange
episode, actually. It's definitely something
Doctor Who's done before, sort of not everything's
quite right. Nobody knows who they are and they're
living out in this weird reality type thing.
We've done it in Lie of the Land. Big Finish
have done it in a fair few stories. I think probably
a good 20 % of the Eighth Doctor's mind wipes
have come through stories like this. But I think
this is the sort of the biggest scale the concept
has been done because pretty much the entire
episode, the Doctor doesn't know who he is. And
there's a lot of not that subtle hints dropped
to him, actually. And it takes him a little while
to kind of accept what's going on. So, yeah,
interesting. Have to admit, it's not been my
favourite of this run. However, I think it's
a bit difficult to judge to this stage because
it is part one of a two part finale and there
was a lot of great stuff going on. The Rani's
were fantastic. The whole idea that the world
was basically Conrad's vision is particularly
interesting and it would be nice to sort of have
got a chance to explore that a little bit more.
I'm sure it's going to feature somewhat next
week. There's a lot of characters in it. We've
got unit characters. We've got Ruby. We've got
Mel. All sorts going on. One thing that we sort
of said last week was going into the finale and
not particularly knowing much about it was that
there's an awful lot of pieces there. There's
an awful lot of ingredients to this one. And
I do think that maybe... And some of those ingredients
didn't really get to do much, like Mel was in,
what, two or three scenes? And I'm kind of hoping
that we do get some sort of Mel and the Rani
reunion at the end of the day. It was the Rani
who killed Mel's first daughter, caused the sixth
daughter to regenerate into the seventh. So I
think there's still more I'd like to see from
this. But as I've said, it's part one of a two
-part finale. There seems to be an awful lot
more coming in part two. So it's going to be
interesting to see where that goes. So let's
hop over to Mansour. What did you think of it?
What were your thoughts on Wishworld? So I've
watched it one and a half times. First time in
the morning on Saturday and then watched half
of it with family on Sunday. And I was... really
interested in the setup of wish world and i'm
kind of a bit frustrated that we didn't get a
chance to to spend more time in that and explore
what that world was like because that yeah that
was the most interesting part of the episode
for me i know it's kind of very like sort of
cheekily lampshaded and there is a purpose in
universe to it but there was a lot of exposition
towards the end of the And I know the whole point
of that is it's the Rani prompting doubt in the
Doctor, so it serves a purpose. So in my head,
I was thinking, like in previous episodes of
this podcast, we've sort of jokingly speculated
about the Rani and then that happened. And I
think we've been talking about Omega in previous
episodes as well. I think this is like partly
about how much Big Finish we consume as well,
that I'm just increasingly less impressed about
these sorts of returning elements. And I just
want, I wanted that new novel stuff about what
the wish world is and how it works and what it
says about fascism and all of that to be just
explored in a little bit more depth. And like
you say, rather than... closing off things neatly.
This just seems to be adding more open threads
to the mix to be resolved. I feel like I should
say some good things about it. I think the new
Rani is really good, and there's an interesting
dynamic with Mrs. Flood still hanging around,
and an interesting dynamic with Conrad, who seems
to be in this very subservient position of being
held prisoner and used. That's sort of interesting
commentary as well about how dynamics work within
kind of misinformation and right -wing commentators.
And the Doctor and Belinda, it was sort of this
interesting WandaVision type setup. But again,
yeah, I'm a bit frustrated that we haven't had
more space. to develop Belinda as a character.
And I saw, this might be reading too much into
it, but I saw some stuff posted like behind the
scenes stuff for Lux. And there was a little
illustration that had Ruby in one of these images.
And it's making me increasingly feel complete
speculation, not based on anything concrete,
that Belinda seems to have been this like late
in the day replacement for Ruby in season two.
And I think, I really like Belinda's character
and I really like the performance. It's just
that I don't feel like there's been space for
her to have an interesting story in the seven
out of eight episodes that we've had so far.
But yeah, I'll stop there. But like you said,
it might all tie together neatly next week in
a really clever way. But let's see. I really
do still feel as though sort of, Straight out
of the gate, Belinda had a pretty strong start.
Like, we had three very, very good episodes for
her at the start of the season. She felt like
a real person. She felt like a real person who
you could, yeah, you can understand human reactions
from. Yeah. And then it does seem to have fallen
into a bit of a generic companion serving the
plot trap ever since the well. Like, she got
shot in the well. And we've said before, we never
revisited that. That never got discussed again.
And that just didn't feel right based on what
we'd had the two weeks before that. Yeah, I know
what you mean. And yeah, it's kind of a shame
to do a, this character doesn't know who they
are and are living a WandaVision -like life.
you know, not quite right world scenario when
you don't really know the original character
to start with. You kind of lose a bit of impact
there. And another thing adding to this theory
is that we never meet her family until this episode.
So, you know, let's not even get into like Ruby's
family and mother betraying her again. But like
with Belinda's family, surely... If you were
introducing a weird wish world version of them,
you would introduce the real world version of
them at the start of the season for the contrast.
Yeah, because you just don't get it otherwise.
Yeah. Yeah, it's like parachuting Jackie Tyler
in in Father's Day without having met the character
before. Yeah. Sort of half the impact of the
episode would just automatically vanish. Yeah.
Jimmy, go on then. You talked to us about Wishworld.
What did you think? I think a lot of how it's
going to feel and be rated overall is going to
come into how the next episode resolves it because
there's a lot of potential for things to turn
out really amazing and really brilliant. And
there's a lot of potential for them to totally
botch everything. So anything I'm saying, it's
tentative at this point because it's all going
to come down to how it finishes. I'll leave the
Susan stuff to last because that's the part I'm
most interested in. But talking about the episode
itself, I think I loved the concept, but I think
the execution was a bit off the pacing. There
are some things that they dragged out too long
and didn't really do much with, and there's other
things that were really brilliant that they didn't
do enough with. My favourite part was that whole
camp full of the disabled and dispossessed who
have been... forgotten about by Connor and left
to survive on their own. And I think they did
a really good job of realising that and looking
at the unleashed and the behind the scenes and
how much effort and work they put in to make
it realistic. It was just such a brilliant scene.
And they got Shirley and Ruby together and they're
doing this thing about, oh, if we can stop Connor's
broadcast, we can stop everything. And then,
you know, the Rani lets the Doctor make the world
fall apart and their whole arc of, oh, we're
going to do something about this. Like there
was so much potential for we're the dispossessed
and the forgotten and we're going to be the ones
that solve this. And they just sort of threw
it away and had all their efforts lead nowhere.
And I think that was a bit of a failure on the
episodes part because that could have been handled
a lot better. Also on the side of things that
I think didn't work for me is the Miss Flood
and the Rani thing. It's been really poorly executed.
Like, I think with the original bi -generation
of the 14th into the 14th and 15th Doctors, like,
they were both still portrayed as the Doctor.
Like, they were equals and they were both working
together at the same problem and it sort of made
sense. But Mrs. Flood is just like, oh, she was
all mysterious and whatever beforehand, but as
soon as the new Rani appeared, she just became
a generic minion. She's just doing whatever the
other Rani tells her and no real trace of any
personality or uniqueness. She's just become
a generic minion and I think it's a huge waste.
I mean, I love Archie as the new Rani and I think
she's much better for the role and she's been
absolutely brilliant. But it's a real shame to
see Mrs. Flood sort of go nowhere and it's like,
oh, I'm just a generic minion now. Forget all
that stuff. I think it was a huge waste of her.
So I really think it would have been a lot better
if... They'd just done a normal regeneration
and given us just the new Rani and got more of
a focus on her. So that was a bit disappointing.
But also going back to what I was saying earlier
about the realisation of the world and to what
you were both saying about hoping Mel has more
involvement, I did notice one thing when I was
discussing this online with some other people
earlier, that they did sort of hint at that with
in front of all the houses there's those slip
bins for... Oh, every time you have a doubt,
the cups fall through and they smash. And every
house has a whole giant bin in front for them.
But when you see that little scene with Mel in
the street with Ruby, Mel's house has two bins.
And I think that ties back to her whole classic
series thing of, oh, memory like an elephant.
She never forgets anything. And so she's, you
know, she's an experienced companion and she's
got a really great memory. Of course, she's going
to be forgetting more like. She's got two giant
bins for all her slips, whereas most houses with
a whole family, having their doubts, have only
one bin. So I think there's a lot of potential
to follow that up and have Mel be important,
which she should be because she's met the Rani
before and there's a lot to follow up there if
they want to do it. So I'm looking forward to
seeing if she gets used well and how they do
that. The other thing I'd agree with what you
were saying about Belinda is... She's a brilliant
actress, brilliant performance, but they haven't
really given her much to do this whole season.
I think the only real standout moment for me
was in the previous episode in the Interstellar
Song Contest when she had that complete breakdown
when she thinks the Doctor's dead and she's never
going to get home. And the performance was amazing.
I think it's the best acting from a companion
actor on TV since the original Donna season.
It was really... incredibly performed and it
was nice to see her get some material to really
dig her teeth into. But I'm loving Belinda as
a character more than I liked Ruby in the previous
season, but they're really not giving her enough
good material and enough to really let her show
how good she can be. And so I think that's another
thing that definitely needs some improvement.
But going back to Ruby, I think she's been brilliant
this season. I think. following up last season
with that whole arc in Lucky Day and she's got
PTSD and she's having troubles and she really
has improved a lot this season. Like, I think
Ruby this season has been much better than Ruby
last season. And I am interested to see, like
Mansour was saying about how it seems like she
was cut out and replaced because of those pictures
from Lux of her in the cartoon world because...
The speculation I've seen online, and I'm not
sure how true it is, but with Poppy coming back
and all that stuff earlier in last season about,
oh, I haven't had a kid yet. Susan's my granddaughter,
but I haven't had the actual her parents yet.
And way back in Space Babies, when Poppy and
all the other babies were like, oh, Ruby and
the Doctor, you're our mum and dad. There was
this line from Shooty about, we're not your mum
and dad, but I wish. we were, and we've just
had the God of Wishes introduced. And so it would
make a lot of sense if that retroactively turned
the Doctor and Ruby into Poppy's mum and dad,
but they're really dwelling on her being real
and acting like Belinda's her mum. So I think
that's definitely evidence that there was some
rewriting going on because if they've made the
Doctor and Belinda her mum and dad, it doesn't
make as much sense as it would have if they'd
made the Doctor and Ruby her parents. Yeah, it'll
be interesting to see how they deal with that.
Also, now that we've covered all that, I've got
to say, Susan, I'm so hyped for her being back.
I'm so delighted and I can't wait to see where
it goes. I actually, in the episode she first
turned up in, in the Stellar Song Contest, as
soon as they put that mention of Trion as one
of the planets in the contest, I thought, oh,
you're kidding me. All that teasing about Susan
last season and they're going to bring back...
bloody turlo before they follow up on it and
so i was completely blindsided when they actually
did bring susan back in that episode because
it's the one time i was sort of not kind of hoping
for it and expecting it it was the one time i
didn't think there was any chance so it was such
an amazing surprise and her calling out to find
me grandfather and that being the thing that
made the doctor revive from being frozen in space
it's just so brilliant and i really hope we get
a lot more from her and a lot of good interaction
between her and the doctor because the other
thing I liked was that um when the doctor was
shocking kid over and over again we had Susan
going grandfather stop and he didn't it took
until Belinda arrived and for him to see that
Belinda was alive for him to stop like maybe
he wasn't believing it was really Susan or that
it could be real but like Susan not being able
to stop the doctor is a pretty dark moment. And
I love darker doctor stuff where he's, you know,
having that anger and stuff that he doesn't normally
have. So I absolutely love that scene, but I
definitely am looking forward to seeing how they
follow it up. The only thing I'm really worried
about with Susan coming back is that they're
almost inevitably going to say it's the first
time the doctor's seen her since he left her.
And so that's going to retcon a whole lot of
brilliant, brilliant material from Big Finish.
I loved her arc with the Eighth Doctor. I loved
her getting her own spin -off in the Time War
and, of course, all the companion chronicles
that deal with her after the Doctor left her
and especially the most recent box set. They
did a brilliant job of following up on after
Alex had died and she's mourning him and talking
about how she finally realised she needed to
move on from the Doctor but she couldn't and
it's so much brilliant material for Susan. It's
going to be really sad if just after we've got
that, a couple of weeks later, it's going to
be not canon anymore. But, I mean, we'll find
our headcanons. We'll find a way to make it work.
But, yeah, it's the one thing that's making me
slightly apprehensive about her return. But the
excitement and the joy and the eagerness to see
where they go far outweighs the worries and questions
of canonicities. But, yeah, it'll be really interesting
to see her back properly. I'm looking forward
to it so much. I'm going to say what I always
say when a canon discussion comes up. Time War
messed it up. Everything's fine. It's the only
way you can approach it with Doctor Who, I think.
Yeah, it is really good to sort of have these
little moments of Susan, but I... I want it to
go somewhere and I want it to go somewhere meaningful.
Like Susan's return could be a big point in an
episode on its own, but it's actually a small
point so far across two episodes that have dealt
with so many other things. There's even talk
about Omega. Well, there's not even talk. Omega
is coming back. It was mentioned in the episode.
It wasn't shown. We don't know what Omega is
going to look like. And I think we got some voice
clips that were Stephen Thorne, but for obvious
reasons, he's not going to be playing Gomer in
this. And the interesting thing about those clips
was it wasn't actually clips from the three doctors.
Those clips were actually from Big Finish. They
were from Gallifrey Intervention Earth. And so
it's really cool that we're getting a tie back
to Big Finish in some small way. Yeah, that's
certainly going to be interesting to see how
that connects, if it does. But it's an awful
lot connecting together. And that's kind of my
problem here. Like, I want the Doctor and Susan
meeting again on screen to be a big, big thing.
I want it to be huge. And my concern is that
it's going to be, oh, hello, this is my granddaughter.
Meet Ruby, meet Mel, meet... Belinda, meet Keita
from Unit. Anyway, got to go and fight Omega
now and the Rani and the other Rani. Bye. I'm
just really, really worried that it's going to
be a little bit hand -wavy when it should be
huge and it should be Susan -centric. And I just
don't think that's where it's going to go. Like
Mel coming in in the giggle, absolutely fine.
That worked. It made sense. And she became a
companion. She stood there and she held on to
the Doctor as she thought she was going to regenerate
as he bi -generated. Again, Mel became pretty
much full -on companion during the last finale.
It was the Doctor and Ruby and Mel that survived
being turned to dust. So how are we going to
get that with Susan? Are we going to get that
with Susan? When there's so... much other stuff
there as well so that's that it's becoming a
bigger concern just because last week i said
there's loads and loads going on here and now
it just feels like there's more going on and
actually wish world hasn't really done much with
all of the stuff that we were talking about last
week um it's a very it's a very odd approach
i found which will be a bit of a thing that gives
me hope in regard to that is the actual next
episode i've heard is going to be It's going
to be 66 minutes, not the usual 45, 50. So they've
got time to cover everything if they do it well.
And like you say, I mean, I've got the same worries
that it won't be done well, but I'm optimistic
because I love the character and I think they
wouldn't bring her back after 60 years and not
do something good and meaningful with it. So
it's just a question of how well it lands and
how well they realise it. I'm more optimistic
than I am worried, but I can totally see why
you'd be more worried than optimistic also. So,
yeah, it'll be interesting to see where it goes
and hopefully it'll be satisfactory for everyone.
With any luck, yes. But, of course, there was
a lot of other stuff going on, as we've said,
so let's delve into that a tad. We got to kind
of see the Rani's... together properly in this
episode. We got the little teasy scene at the
end of Interstellar Song Contest, but we never
quite got a proper big scene with the two of
them. And we get that a little bit more here.
And we do see, as we suspected, that Anita Dobson's
Rani's a little bit unhappy with being the not
definitive one, the more subservient one. I think,
you know, she's, my prediction is she will, she'll
turn the tables at some point, all will seem
lost and she'll go, nope, I've had enough of
this. I'm the main Rani now. Something like that.
So to kind of, what did we think about the two
Ranis, Mansor, you go first. It seems to be,
to me, like quite obviously setting up for some
sort of twist at the end. Like, I think we talked
about this previously that, The shift from Mrs.
Flood being so mysterious and intimidating in
other moments previously to suddenly being so
subservient, it seems really obvious to me, and
especially with some of her comments this week,
like kind of sort of needling at the new Rani
and complaining when she's making the sandwich.
It feels like there's some sort of betrayal or
twist coming up. in that dynamic but it's also
interesting that they they have that dynamic
but also there's that sort of moment of victory
where they're like they're both toasting together
and they're kind of so it's not a simple kind
of relationship there they kind of are working
together as well and Conrad is kind of even lower
in the pecking order it seems like he's being
kept as a prisoner pretty much is the vibe I
got. So yeah, interesting dynamic. Again, with
like so much going on next week, I'm curious
to know, I'm sort of anxious and interested about
how much space there will be to wrap it up in
an interesting way. And yeah, so yeah, I don't
have much more to say on that, but I think both
their performances, like... So Anita Dobson's
character, I don't know if there was something
said in behind -the -scenes stuff. Did Russell
T Davies know that she was the Rani when he first
wrote her? I think there was something about
him saying that he didn't, which makes a bit
of sense because you look at some of her previous
scenes and they don't really seem like the character
as much as Archie Punjabi's. version does um
so so yeah i mean i've seen i've seen arguments
that mrs flood might have worked better as just
a new villain um and that would have been interesting
because it would have allowed anita dobson to
continue to have center stage and to just be
this new interesting threat but instead we've
got this series of revelations which i'm excited
about season coming back and The Rani to an extent
as well, but Susan, The Rani and Omega, that
almost seems like a parody of what the rumours
are every year about what the big reveal is going
to be. Like if Paul McGann turns up next week,
that'll be to announce his new spin -off series
set in the Time War. That will sort of add weight
to the theory that Russell T Davies is just writing
some sort of metatextual story about fan wishes
coming true. So anyway, yeah, I've gotten off
the subject of the Rani's, but yeah, I'm enjoying
both their performances, but I'm interested to
know how it will all resolve. Yeah, we'll see.
We'll see where it's going. Interesting places,
I'm sure. I guess another point, and this is
kind of harking back to what Jimmy was saying
before, really. Would you have rather say, okay,
it's definitely the Rani, and there has been
some discussion online about... Anita Dobson's
character wasn't originally meant to be the Rani.
And when you look into some of the dialogue from
the last series, it kind of doesn't make any
level of sense whatsoever. It's just kind of
generic, mysterious sounding, slightly sinister
dialogue, I guess. But say we are, you know,
okay, the character is definitely the Rani. Would
you have rather it happened without the bi -generation
and just... let's just have Anita Dobson as the
Rani. Do we need the second Rani? Like, we've
got a great second Rani and I'm really enjoying
both Ranis, but I think the way Mrs. Flood was
built up, it might have been better to give her
a fair crack of the whip. I don't really see
the benefit of the bi -generation. So just kind
of, what are your thoughts on that? Well, yeah,
basically, as I said, Mrs. Flood, as you said,
she never really acted much like the Rani. And
then when they did Five Generations, she also
became subservient and not really standing up
for herself. And so, I mean, I liked Mrs. Flood
as a character, but I think she's a bit rubbish
as the Rani and Archie's been amazing. I mean,
I wish they'd either kept Mrs. Flood as her own
separate thing and dealt with it that way, or
they'd just had Archie from the start and been
more Rani -like. Or heck, do both. Have Mrs.
Flood be her own thing and she's working with
the Rani. But, yeah, Mrs. Flood I liked on her
own account, but she's rubbish as the Rani. She
was a good character in her own right, but she's
a crap Rani, let's be honest. So I think I would
have just rathered Archie get the part of the
Rani and skip the bi -generation. It just, yeah,
Archie would have been so much better and she's
really been amazing and just... an episode and
a single scene, she's captured the role perfectly
and really makes a great successor to the original.
I think you can squint and make it work with
Mrs. Flood being an incarnation of the Rani,
but like kind of an aberration, like the War
Doctor or that one iteration of the Eleven who's
not completely insane and evil. So you can kind
of squint and make it work that way. But yeah,
I completely agree that to have a version of
the Rani who's not identical but evokes the kind
of character that Kate Amara was playing, having
Anita Dobson just suddenly switch to that would
have been a bit odd. Because she's not... I know
she does the disguise thing in Mark of the Rani
to... So I suppose it is part of her character
as well. But there's kind of more what you think
about the Master, like, you know, spending years
in a disguise just to mess with the Doctor. It
doesn't feel like that's the kind of thing that
the Rani would put time and effort into doing.
So I've always found the Rani's disguise in the
Mark of the Rani to make sense. you know, little
old woman that owns a bathhouse. No one's going
to suspect that. No one's going to consider anything
sinister. So I kind of see why that disguise
happened and that worked. There's certainly more
logic to it than the master dressing up as a
scarecrow. But yeah, you're right. It's kind
of... Yeah, why was Theroni disguised? You know,
the Doctor met Mrs. Flood. Why did he not identify
Mrs. Flood as a Time Lord? And why did she drop
her shopping when she was on a street with no
one else there and the TARDIS, was it dematerialised
or materialised? There's a shot early on in one
of Mrs. Flood's early scenes where she just seems
really shocked and there's no one else watching.
And the breaking the fourth wall stuff. oh yeah
yeah which yeah which is a question about is
that just going to be left or is that going to
be part of the reality or plot well i mean the
doctor broke the four four two now that seems
to be just a new thing because um in lux when
he says cut cut cut to um to mr ringerding and
then he looks at the camera and asks you know
why am i who am i saying cut to and way back
in The Devil's Chord when he said something about,
oh, I thought that music was non -diegetic. And
so maybe it's just a new Time Lord thing that
all Time Lords can break the four of wool. That's
the only explanation I can think of. But, yeah,
it's not very satisfactory if it doesn't have
some meaning. There are little moments with like
the first and fourth Doctors as well. And the
12th, where they've each got like moments where
they... A very Merry Christmas to all of you
at home. And so you can kind of, yeah, write
it off as all part of that. But I feel like there's
something distinct about how directly Mrs. Flood
addressed the audience. That feels like on a
different level to me. Yeah. I think for those
examples you mentioned with the Doctor there,
Jimmy, I think... I think there's a context to
those. Like, you know, Lux was literally an episode
about breaking the fourth wall and, you know,
the Doctor and Ruby crawling out of TV and reality
being messed with and all that kind of thing.
Like, I can kind of, you know, and the same with
the non -diegetic thing. It's a concept that
they're playing with in the episode, within the
episode, and I can deal with that. But Mrs. Flood
has literally just turned around and said to
the audience, have you not seen a TARDIS before?
And that kind of thing. And it just, if it is
the same thing as the doctor breaking the fourth
wall, it is the fourth wall being broken in a
different way. And it's clumsier. And again,
maybe there's an explanation for it. We don't
know what's going to happen in the next episode.
pretty much at all they could still be going
to tie into what happened in um in lux as well
because they made that big point in that scene
with the fans about oh we're the sort of characters
that don't have last names and oh we're all going
to disappear as soon as you're gone and then
they had that scene during the credits where
they were still alive and in their credits the
characters did have surnames so i mean maybe
they're going to tie back to that with the fourth
wall as well because It seems interesting that
they'd make such a big point of, oh, we don't
have last names, we're not going to survive,
and then make a point of them surviving and of
them having last names. So, yeah, interesting
to see if that's going to tie in as well. And
again, actually, is that something that we're
going to come back to? Because we've come back
to so much other stuff in this series. It'll
be interesting to see if we revisit those fan
characters again. Well, let's sort of... Our
last main talking point, really, is let's do
some speculation, like Omega. Omega's been mentioned.
We've heard the audio clips, as we've said. Do
we think we're going to see Omega? Do we think
Omega's going to look like he did in The Three
Doctors or Ark of Infinity? You know, are we
going to have Peter Davison playing him? I've
seen that one kind of suggested somewhere. What
do we think Omega is going to be? How do we think
Omega is going to be appearing? Now, a lot of
the stuff that the official Doctor Who social
media channels have been putting out this week
have very much been Omega is back. Here's a picture
of Omega from Three Doctors. And I've seen some
what looks like new artwork. It's certainly very
good Photoshop. So where do we think the Omega
thing is going? Because normally we'd have had
the character by now, like the character would
have been there and visible for the cliffhanger,
but all we got was the name drop. I find that
quite interesting and I wonder if there's a reason
for it. Go ahead, Jimmy. I'm not quite sure how
they're going to realise it, but I've got, I
think, a good theory of what the Rani's plan
with him might be because... We've had this whole
arc ever since the Doctor, the 14th Doctor, did
that salt thing at the edge of the universe and,
oh, we've made myths real, we've made gods real.
And the whole point of the Rani in the classic
series was that she was like an immoral scientist.
She was all about science and doing experiments.
And so I'm thinking what might be happening is,
because Omega's such a famous scientist in Gallifrey's
history, like he managed to work out... the eye
of harmony and give them the power to time travel
so i'm thinking the rani might be she's used
her magic and stuff and gods to open the way
to omega but i suspect what she wants him for
is to restore science to the universe to end
this magic and gods and myth stuff and put the
universe back the way it used to be and it'd
be interesting if that was the case because i
mean that would be It's interesting to see them
go back to normal after these more experimental
seasons. And it would also be a great way to
set up for, well, now we don't know if Disney's
continuing or not. We don't know if it's going
back to just the BBC. And it'd be a good way
to set up. Things are about to change and prepare
for a new era. So, yeah, I'm sort of keen to
see where it goes. But that's my speculation
for what Rani's intention is with Omega. As to
how they'll realise him, I've got no idea and
I'm really looking forward to finding out. Yeah,
I think that, like, you know, having said that,
it's kind of doing a list of rumours from the
last, you know, few years. I think there is that
interesting connection between the Rani and Omega
about science and him being this first Time Lord
scientist. So, yeah, I'm curious if something's
made of that. Just because there's so much to
resolve, like... I feel like we'll see him maybe,
but he won't play a substantial active role in
the plot. It might be more of a kind of threat,
like was it the end of time part two where like
Gallifrey is looming in the sky and it's the
threat of it breaking through that's there for
the whole episode. So maybe there's moments of
Omega or you see him in the underworld or underverse.
but we don't really spend much time with him
or like there's a mention about his like his
body and that relevance the violence and that
i wonder if he's going to just possess one of
our other characters like um uh you know like
is that going to be a way of having him in the
story but we're just using one of our existing
actors um so yeah i just feel like that list
of things that we've talked about that could
do with wrapping up. I'm sure not all of them
are going to get a hugely satisfying resolution,
but even like those main central ones, there's
just not going to be space for loads of Omega.
See, now you've said that, I reckon what they'll
do is they will have Omega possess Belinda and
we'll have yet another episode where we don't
actually spend any time with Belinda, which seems
to be the recurring theme. Yeah, there's... Well,
I think we've heard about reshoots and I was
wondering about longer runtime as well. Like,
was this always designed to be a longer episode
or are these reshoots rather than replacing things?
Is it like a kind of coda that has been put onto
the end of this episode? And that might be about.
The Doctor and regeneration and we're leaving
him in a certain place. Or it might be about
Belinda's story, giving that some sort of definitive
ending. Or both. It could be something involving
both of them if they are actually Poppy's mother
and father. It would be very curious to see.
And I'm sure it will all tie together in some
way. It's just how good that way is, I suppose.
Well, before we sign off, anything else that
you'd like to mention at all? All I can think
of is that with not knowing whether the series
is going to continue straight away or whether
Disney is going to come back or not, my biggest
hope is I've absolutely loved Judy Gatwick as
the Doctor and I've loved Belinda. Despite them
not giving her much to do, I think the actress
is brilliant and she's done a great job. And
so I'm really hoping that they both stay as the
current companion and doctor. I'm hoping they're
not both leaving because even if one is and one
isn't, that'll be better than nothing. But I
want to see more of them together. I really hope
that we're not going to get an era this short.
I hope they've got more to come. I think I'd
actually take that a step further and say that
I'd really like it if we actually got the Doctor
and Ruby and Belinda as a TARDIS team for a season.
I don't imagine for a million years it's actually
going to happen. It would be wonderful if it
did. Oh, yeah. One thing that the press release
for when they first announced Belinda said was
that the Doctor's going to have two companions.
And we've not had that at all. Belinda and Ruby
haven't really met. They had, what, a couple
of seconds on screen together in Wishworld, I
think. But yeah, this is not the Doctor and two
companions, this series and the way it's gone.
So I kind of hope the three of them do get to
do some stuff together. But again, we're already
heading into a pretty busy episode and I'm not
sure if we will get that properly. And the other
thing, I doubt there'll be space for this beyond
something very subtle, but wondering if there'll
be any lead into the spinoff. I wouldn't be surprised
if there's a trailer, although there's a question
about whether the spinoff is going to be held
off until next year. to fill a bit of a gap if
we don't get season three for a while um but
yeah i could still see like at least a teaser
trailer for the war between the land and the
sea but i don't know if there'll be space to
set it up i think it's been confirmed was it
maybe russell t davis said on instagram that
stick around at the end for the first look at
a teaser for it or something like that okay so
as far as i'm aware I'm not completely making
this up and I have read this, but I'm fairly
sure, to be honest, I think my only source of
anything throughout this series has been following
Russell T. Davis on Instagram and he has been
posting an awful lot about what's going on and
that kind of thing. But yeah, I seem to remember
there being something about we'll get our first
look, but I think it is just going to be a teaser.
But it'll be an interesting... Interesting one.
And yeah, it'll be interesting to know what the
purpose of this spin -off series is, kind of
like where. Is it to give us something to keep
us going while they make more Doctor Who, or
is it just there for the sake of it? Are we going
into a gap year? So many questions, and I sincerely
doubt that in a week's time when we come to discuss
reality war, we're actually going to really know,
unfortunately. We shall see. Okay, well, we shall
leave it there. So that's Wishworld. It left
me wanting more. Not necessarily in all the best
ways, though. Don't think it was a bad episode.
I just don't... I'm not as hyped about what it
did as I was with... Was it The Legend of Ruby
Sunday last year? I thought that was a really
good episode. that kind of built up an awful
lot, whereas this felt a bit like it was treading
water. But at the same time, quite a lot happened
with quite a lot of characters. So we'll see
where it goes. But the extended length of the
finale does give me hope, even though there is
a hell of a lot to fit in there. So roll it on.
But for now, I will say thank you and goodbye
to Mansour. Thank you. And thank you and goodbye
to Jimmy. Thanks very much. And we'll be back
to discuss the finale next week. Goodbye now.