WEBVTT 00:00:03.950 --> 00:00:06.589 You're listening to a podcast of spurious morality. 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:05.159 Hello, and welcome to a podcast of Spurious Morality. 00:01:05.420 --> 00:01:08.540 I'm Johnston, and with me this week, I have Mansour. 00:01:08.900 --> 00:01:12.459 Hello. And we have Jimmy joining us as well. 00:01:12.459 --> 00:01:16.719 Hello, Jimmy. Hiya, friend. So we're here to 00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:19.500 talk about Wishworld, which is the latest episode 00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:24.939 of season two of Doctor Who. first part of the 00:01:24.939 --> 00:01:28.700 finale. But Jimmy's here because Susan has come 00:01:28.700 --> 00:01:31.439 back and Jimmy wanted to talk about Susan. We 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:33.260 all want to talk about Susan coming back because 00:01:33.260 --> 00:01:35.500 it's quite exciting and we still don't really 00:01:35.500 --> 00:01:38.700 know where it's going, but that's something we 00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:41.840 can discuss shortly. But first of all, we will 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:45.799 have a look at Wishworld, which I was there, 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:48.219 ready to go and more or less ate in the morning. 00:01:49.019 --> 00:01:51.859 Got it on and found it to be a bit of a strange 00:01:51.859 --> 00:01:57.599 episode, actually. It's definitely something 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.719 Doctor Who's done before, sort of not everything's 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:02.739 quite right. Nobody knows who they are and they're 00:02:02.739 --> 00:02:04.640 living out in this weird reality type thing. 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:08.419 We've done it in Lie of the Land. Big Finish 00:02:08.419 --> 00:02:12.580 have done it in a fair few stories. I think probably 00:02:12.580 --> 00:02:15.319 a good 20 % of the Eighth Doctor's mind wipes 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:20.719 have come through stories like this. But I think 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:24.400 this is the sort of the biggest scale the concept 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:26.580 has been done because pretty much the entire 00:02:26.580 --> 00:02:29.400 episode, the Doctor doesn't know who he is. And 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:33.400 there's a lot of not that subtle hints dropped 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:35.500 to him, actually. And it takes him a little while 00:02:35.500 --> 00:02:40.539 to kind of accept what's going on. So, yeah, 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:45.919 interesting. Have to admit, it's not been my 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:48.840 favourite of this run. However, I think it's 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:51.039 a bit difficult to judge to this stage because 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.580 it is part one of a two part finale and there 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:56.419 was a lot of great stuff going on. The Rani's 00:02:56.419 --> 00:02:58.780 were fantastic. The whole idea that the world 00:02:58.780 --> 00:03:03.680 was basically Conrad's vision is particularly 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:07.139 interesting and it would be nice to sort of have 00:03:07.139 --> 00:03:09.300 got a chance to explore that a little bit more. 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:11.419 I'm sure it's going to feature somewhat next 00:03:11.419 --> 00:03:15.419 week. There's a lot of characters in it. We've 00:03:15.419 --> 00:03:18.919 got unit characters. We've got Ruby. We've got 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:24.219 Mel. All sorts going on. One thing that we sort 00:03:24.219 --> 00:03:28.379 of said last week was going into the finale and 00:03:28.379 --> 00:03:31.139 not particularly knowing much about it was that 00:03:31.139 --> 00:03:34.159 there's an awful lot of pieces there. There's 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:38.000 an awful lot of ingredients to this one. And 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:41.900 I do think that maybe... And some of those ingredients 00:03:41.900 --> 00:03:44.379 didn't really get to do much, like Mel was in, 00:03:44.419 --> 00:03:47.659 what, two or three scenes? And I'm kind of hoping 00:03:47.659 --> 00:03:50.560 that we do get some sort of Mel and the Rani 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.180 reunion at the end of the day. It was the Rani 00:03:53.180 --> 00:03:57.039 who killed Mel's first daughter, caused the sixth 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:01.080 daughter to regenerate into the seventh. So I 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:04.439 think there's still more I'd like to see from 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:07.539 this. But as I've said, it's part one of a two 00:04:07.539 --> 00:04:11.900 -part finale. There seems to be an awful lot 00:04:11.900 --> 00:04:14.319 more coming in part two. So it's going to be 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.180 interesting to see where that goes. So let's 00:04:17.180 --> 00:04:18.939 hop over to Mansour. What did you think of it? 00:04:18.980 --> 00:04:22.920 What were your thoughts on Wishworld? So I've 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:26.079 watched it one and a half times. First time in 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.879 the morning on Saturday and then watched half 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:38.209 of it with family on Sunday. And I was... really 00:04:38.209 --> 00:04:42.389 interested in the setup of wish world and i'm 00:04:42.389 --> 00:04:46.610 kind of a bit frustrated that we didn't get a 00:04:46.610 --> 00:04:50.089 chance to to spend more time in that and explore 00:04:50.089 --> 00:04:52.810 what that world was like because that yeah that 00:04:52.810 --> 00:04:54.470 was the most interesting part of the episode 00:04:54.470 --> 00:04:58.310 for me i know it's kind of very like sort of 00:04:58.310 --> 00:05:01.310 cheekily lampshaded and there is a purpose in 00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:04.189 universe to it but there was a lot of exposition 00:05:04.189 --> 00:05:08.129 towards the end of the And I know the whole point 00:05:08.129 --> 00:05:11.569 of that is it's the Rani prompting doubt in the 00:05:11.569 --> 00:05:18.509 Doctor, so it serves a purpose. So in my head, 00:05:18.509 --> 00:05:22.810 I was thinking, like in previous episodes of 00:05:22.810 --> 00:05:25.870 this podcast, we've sort of jokingly speculated 00:05:25.870 --> 00:05:28.610 about the Rani and then that happened. And I 00:05:28.610 --> 00:05:31.310 think we've been talking about Omega in previous 00:05:31.310 --> 00:05:36.550 episodes as well. I think this is like partly 00:05:36.550 --> 00:05:38.990 about how much Big Finish we consume as well, 00:05:39.069 --> 00:05:43.050 that I'm just increasingly less impressed about 00:05:43.050 --> 00:05:46.449 these sorts of returning elements. And I just 00:05:46.449 --> 00:05:49.750 want, I wanted that new novel stuff about what 00:05:49.750 --> 00:05:52.230 the wish world is and how it works and what it 00:05:52.230 --> 00:05:56.889 says about fascism and all of that to be just 00:05:56.889 --> 00:06:01.209 explored in a little bit more depth. And like 00:06:01.209 --> 00:06:05.060 you say, rather than... closing off things neatly. 00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:08.379 This just seems to be adding more open threads 00:06:08.379 --> 00:06:13.379 to the mix to be resolved. I feel like I should 00:06:13.379 --> 00:06:15.300 say some good things about it. I think the new 00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:18.660 Rani is really good, and there's an interesting 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:21.699 dynamic with Mrs. Flood still hanging around, 00:06:21.899 --> 00:06:24.860 and an interesting dynamic with Conrad, who seems 00:06:24.860 --> 00:06:29.639 to be in this very subservient position of being 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:34.600 held prisoner and used. That's sort of interesting 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:38.699 commentary as well about how dynamics work within 00:06:38.699 --> 00:06:44.259 kind of misinformation and right -wing commentators. 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:49.939 And the Doctor and Belinda, it was sort of this 00:06:49.939 --> 00:06:52.300 interesting WandaVision type setup. But again, 00:06:52.500 --> 00:06:55.579 yeah, I'm a bit frustrated that we haven't had 00:06:55.579 --> 00:06:59.579 more space. to develop Belinda as a character. 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:01.860 And I saw, this might be reading too much into 00:07:01.860 --> 00:07:06.399 it, but I saw some stuff posted like behind the 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:08.480 scenes stuff for Lux. And there was a little 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.600 illustration that had Ruby in one of these images. 00:07:11.740 --> 00:07:15.420 And it's making me increasingly feel complete 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:17.699 speculation, not based on anything concrete, 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:21.079 that Belinda seems to have been this like late 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:25.879 in the day replacement for Ruby in season two. 00:07:26.339 --> 00:07:29.439 And I think, I really like Belinda's character 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:31.620 and I really like the performance. It's just 00:07:31.620 --> 00:07:33.860 that I don't feel like there's been space for 00:07:33.860 --> 00:07:37.579 her to have an interesting story in the seven 00:07:37.579 --> 00:07:39.860 out of eight episodes that we've had so far. 00:07:41.259 --> 00:07:43.660 But yeah, I'll stop there. But like you said, 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:47.459 it might all tie together neatly next week in 00:07:47.459 --> 00:07:53.800 a really clever way. But let's see. I really 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:57.500 do still feel as though sort of, Straight out 00:07:57.500 --> 00:07:59.819 of the gate, Belinda had a pretty strong start. 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:04.740 Like, we had three very, very good episodes for 00:08:04.740 --> 00:08:06.319 her at the start of the season. She felt like 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:08.540 a real person. She felt like a real person who 00:08:08.540 --> 00:08:11.560 you could, yeah, you can understand human reactions 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:17.220 from. Yeah. And then it does seem to have fallen 00:08:17.220 --> 00:08:20.120 into a bit of a generic companion serving the 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:23.300 plot trap ever since the well. Like, she got 00:08:23.300 --> 00:08:26.889 shot in the well. And we've said before, we never 00:08:26.889 --> 00:08:29.029 revisited that. That never got discussed again. 00:08:29.750 --> 00:08:33.049 And that just didn't feel right based on what 00:08:33.049 --> 00:08:36.710 we'd had the two weeks before that. Yeah, I know 00:08:36.710 --> 00:08:40.769 what you mean. And yeah, it's kind of a shame 00:08:40.769 --> 00:08:43.830 to do a, this character doesn't know who they 00:08:43.830 --> 00:08:45.690 are and are living a WandaVision -like life. 00:08:47.580 --> 00:08:50.659 you know, not quite right world scenario when 00:08:50.659 --> 00:08:52.919 you don't really know the original character 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:55.159 to start with. You kind of lose a bit of impact 00:08:55.159 --> 00:08:57.659 there. And another thing adding to this theory 00:08:57.659 --> 00:09:02.759 is that we never meet her family until this episode. 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:06.960 So, you know, let's not even get into like Ruby's 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:10.240 family and mother betraying her again. But like 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:14.220 with Belinda's family, surely... If you were 00:09:14.220 --> 00:09:17.200 introducing a weird wish world version of them, 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:21.200 you would introduce the real world version of 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:23.960 them at the start of the season for the contrast. 00:09:25.220 --> 00:09:27.600 Yeah, because you just don't get it otherwise. 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.519 Yeah. Yeah, it's like parachuting Jackie Tyler 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:34.799 in in Father's Day without having met the character 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:38.220 before. Yeah. Sort of half the impact of the 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:41.019 episode would just automatically vanish. Yeah. 00:09:42.190 --> 00:09:44.250 Jimmy, go on then. You talked to us about Wishworld. 00:09:44.330 --> 00:09:47.490 What did you think? I think a lot of how it's 00:09:47.490 --> 00:09:50.669 going to feel and be rated overall is going to 00:09:50.669 --> 00:09:53.730 come into how the next episode resolves it because 00:09:53.730 --> 00:09:56.429 there's a lot of potential for things to turn 00:09:56.429 --> 00:09:59.610 out really amazing and really brilliant. And 00:09:59.610 --> 00:10:01.529 there's a lot of potential for them to totally 00:10:01.529 --> 00:10:04.990 botch everything. So anything I'm saying, it's 00:10:04.990 --> 00:10:07.149 tentative at this point because it's all going 00:10:07.149 --> 00:10:09.860 to come down to how it finishes. I'll leave the 00:10:09.860 --> 00:10:12.320 Susan stuff to last because that's the part I'm 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:14.299 most interested in. But talking about the episode 00:10:14.299 --> 00:10:18.899 itself, I think I loved the concept, but I think 00:10:18.899 --> 00:10:21.879 the execution was a bit off the pacing. There 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:25.000 are some things that they dragged out too long 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:26.539 and didn't really do much with, and there's other 00:10:26.539 --> 00:10:29.399 things that were really brilliant that they didn't 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:33.019 do enough with. My favourite part was that whole 00:10:33.019 --> 00:10:36.220 camp full of the disabled and dispossessed who 00:10:36.220 --> 00:10:38.940 have been... forgotten about by Connor and left 00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:41.259 to survive on their own. And I think they did 00:10:41.259 --> 00:10:43.440 a really good job of realising that and looking 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:45.220 at the unleashed and the behind the scenes and 00:10:45.220 --> 00:10:46.960 how much effort and work they put in to make 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:49.679 it realistic. It was just such a brilliant scene. 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:53.759 And they got Shirley and Ruby together and they're 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:55.960 doing this thing about, oh, if we can stop Connor's 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:58.539 broadcast, we can stop everything. And then, 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:01.940 you know, the Rani lets the Doctor make the world 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:05.700 fall apart and their whole arc of, oh, we're 00:11:05.700 --> 00:11:08.200 going to do something about this. Like there 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:10.000 was so much potential for we're the dispossessed 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:11.720 and the forgotten and we're going to be the ones 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:14.379 that solve this. And they just sort of threw 00:11:14.379 --> 00:11:17.200 it away and had all their efforts lead nowhere. 00:11:17.419 --> 00:11:19.440 And I think that was a bit of a failure on the 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:22.039 episodes part because that could have been handled 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:28.159 a lot better. Also on the side of things that 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.240 I think didn't work for me is the Miss Flood 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:36.039 and the Rani thing. It's been really poorly executed. 00:11:36.220 --> 00:11:38.019 Like, I think with the original bi -generation 00:11:38.019 --> 00:11:42.679 of the 14th into the 14th and 15th Doctors, like, 00:11:42.740 --> 00:11:44.639 they were both still portrayed as the Doctor. 00:11:44.740 --> 00:11:47.840 Like, they were equals and they were both working 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:49.740 together at the same problem and it sort of made 00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:53.940 sense. But Mrs. Flood is just like, oh, she was 00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:56.659 all mysterious and whatever beforehand, but as 00:11:56.659 --> 00:11:59.399 soon as the new Rani appeared, she just became 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:02.519 a generic minion. She's just doing whatever the 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:05.940 other Rani tells her and no real trace of any 00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:08.279 personality or uniqueness. She's just become 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:10.559 a generic minion and I think it's a huge waste. 00:12:10.779 --> 00:12:14.080 I mean, I love Archie as the new Rani and I think 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:17.059 she's much better for the role and she's been 00:12:17.059 --> 00:12:19.720 absolutely brilliant. But it's a real shame to 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:21.960 see Mrs. Flood sort of go nowhere and it's like, 00:12:22.059 --> 00:12:24.419 oh, I'm just a generic minion now. Forget all 00:12:24.419 --> 00:12:27.080 that stuff. I think it was a huge waste of her. 00:12:27.179 --> 00:12:28.980 So I really think it would have been a lot better 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:30.970 if... They'd just done a normal regeneration 00:12:30.970 --> 00:12:34.129 and given us just the new Rani and got more of 00:12:34.129 --> 00:12:37.070 a focus on her. So that was a bit disappointing. 00:12:38.350 --> 00:12:41.309 But also going back to what I was saying earlier 00:12:41.309 --> 00:12:43.129 about the realisation of the world and to what 00:12:43.129 --> 00:12:45.769 you were both saying about hoping Mel has more 00:12:45.769 --> 00:12:49.730 involvement, I did notice one thing when I was 00:12:49.730 --> 00:12:51.350 discussing this online with some other people 00:12:51.350 --> 00:12:54.389 earlier, that they did sort of hint at that with 00:12:54.389 --> 00:12:57.649 in front of all the houses there's those slip 00:12:57.649 --> 00:12:59.990 bins for... Oh, every time you have a doubt, 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:02.769 the cups fall through and they smash. And every 00:13:02.769 --> 00:13:04.730 house has a whole giant bin in front for them. 00:13:04.870 --> 00:13:07.129 But when you see that little scene with Mel in 00:13:07.129 --> 00:13:10.669 the street with Ruby, Mel's house has two bins. 00:13:10.870 --> 00:13:14.029 And I think that ties back to her whole classic 00:13:14.029 --> 00:13:16.490 series thing of, oh, memory like an elephant. 00:13:16.509 --> 00:13:19.309 She never forgets anything. And so she's, you 00:13:19.309 --> 00:13:21.289 know, she's an experienced companion and she's 00:13:21.289 --> 00:13:24.049 got a really great memory. Of course, she's going 00:13:24.049 --> 00:13:26.830 to be forgetting more like. She's got two giant 00:13:26.830 --> 00:13:29.669 bins for all her slips, whereas most houses with 00:13:29.669 --> 00:13:32.190 a whole family, having their doubts, have only 00:13:32.190 --> 00:13:34.549 one bin. So I think there's a lot of potential 00:13:34.549 --> 00:13:36.769 to follow that up and have Mel be important, 00:13:36.929 --> 00:13:39.269 which she should be because she's met the Rani 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:41.710 before and there's a lot to follow up there if 00:13:41.710 --> 00:13:45.169 they want to do it. So I'm looking forward to 00:13:45.169 --> 00:13:48.889 seeing if she gets used well and how they do 00:13:48.889 --> 00:13:51.350 that. The other thing I'd agree with what you 00:13:51.350 --> 00:13:53.710 were saying about Belinda is... She's a brilliant 00:13:53.710 --> 00:13:56.309 actress, brilliant performance, but they haven't 00:13:56.309 --> 00:13:58.129 really given her much to do this whole season. 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:00.970 I think the only real standout moment for me 00:14:00.970 --> 00:14:03.549 was in the previous episode in the Interstellar 00:14:03.549 --> 00:14:06.570 Song Contest when she had that complete breakdown 00:14:06.570 --> 00:14:08.669 when she thinks the Doctor's dead and she's never 00:14:08.669 --> 00:14:10.970 going to get home. And the performance was amazing. 00:14:11.070 --> 00:14:12.870 I think it's the best acting from a companion 00:14:12.870 --> 00:14:15.629 actor on TV since the original Donna season. 00:14:15.889 --> 00:14:19.230 It was really... incredibly performed and it 00:14:19.230 --> 00:14:21.529 was nice to see her get some material to really 00:14:21.529 --> 00:14:25.490 dig her teeth into. But I'm loving Belinda as 00:14:25.490 --> 00:14:28.429 a character more than I liked Ruby in the previous 00:14:28.429 --> 00:14:30.710 season, but they're really not giving her enough 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:34.750 good material and enough to really let her show 00:14:34.750 --> 00:14:36.909 how good she can be. And so I think that's another 00:14:36.909 --> 00:14:40.590 thing that definitely needs some improvement. 00:14:41.029 --> 00:14:44.629 But going back to Ruby, I think she's been brilliant 00:14:44.629 --> 00:14:48.000 this season. I think. following up last season 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:51.139 with that whole arc in Lucky Day and she's got 00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:54.480 PTSD and she's having troubles and she really 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:56.720 has improved a lot this season. Like, I think 00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:00.100 Ruby this season has been much better than Ruby 00:15:00.100 --> 00:15:03.659 last season. And I am interested to see, like 00:15:03.659 --> 00:15:06.139 Mansour was saying about how it seems like she 00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:08.820 was cut out and replaced because of those pictures 00:15:08.820 --> 00:15:12.000 from Lux of her in the cartoon world because... 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.879 The speculation I've seen online, and I'm not 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:17.059 sure how true it is, but with Poppy coming back 00:15:17.059 --> 00:15:20.139 and all that stuff earlier in last season about, 00:15:20.299 --> 00:15:23.480 oh, I haven't had a kid yet. Susan's my granddaughter, 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:26.360 but I haven't had the actual her parents yet. 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.879 And way back in Space Babies, when Poppy and 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:32.740 all the other babies were like, oh, Ruby and 00:15:32.740 --> 00:15:35.100 the Doctor, you're our mum and dad. There was 00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:37.700 this line from Shooty about, we're not your mum 00:15:37.700 --> 00:15:40.409 and dad, but I wish. we were, and we've just 00:15:40.409 --> 00:15:42.370 had the God of Wishes introduced. And so it would 00:15:42.370 --> 00:15:45.250 make a lot of sense if that retroactively turned 00:15:45.250 --> 00:15:48.950 the Doctor and Ruby into Poppy's mum and dad, 00:15:49.090 --> 00:15:52.070 but they're really dwelling on her being real 00:15:52.070 --> 00:15:55.269 and acting like Belinda's her mum. So I think 00:15:55.269 --> 00:15:57.230 that's definitely evidence that there was some 00:15:57.230 --> 00:16:00.529 rewriting going on because if they've made the 00:16:00.529 --> 00:16:03.230 Doctor and Belinda her mum and dad, it doesn't 00:16:03.230 --> 00:16:05.490 make as much sense as it would have if they'd 00:16:05.490 --> 00:16:09.029 made the Doctor and Ruby her parents. Yeah, it'll 00:16:09.029 --> 00:16:11.210 be interesting to see how they deal with that. 00:16:13.230 --> 00:16:16.730 Also, now that we've covered all that, I've got 00:16:16.730 --> 00:16:19.409 to say, Susan, I'm so hyped for her being back. 00:16:19.490 --> 00:16:21.529 I'm so delighted and I can't wait to see where 00:16:21.529 --> 00:16:24.330 it goes. I actually, in the episode she first 00:16:24.330 --> 00:16:27.230 turned up in, in the Stellar Song Contest, as 00:16:27.230 --> 00:16:29.830 soon as they put that mention of Trion as one 00:16:29.830 --> 00:16:31.990 of the planets in the contest, I thought, oh, 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:34.149 you're kidding me. All that teasing about Susan 00:16:34.149 --> 00:16:36.889 last season and they're going to bring back... 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:39.720 bloody turlo before they follow up on it and 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:43.120 so i was completely blindsided when they actually 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.899 did bring susan back in that episode because 00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:49.480 it's the one time i was sort of not kind of hoping 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:51.820 for it and expecting it it was the one time i 00:16:51.820 --> 00:16:54.639 didn't think there was any chance so it was such 00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:58.399 an amazing surprise and her calling out to find 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:00.340 me grandfather and that being the thing that 00:17:00.340 --> 00:17:04.059 made the doctor revive from being frozen in space 00:17:04.059 --> 00:17:07.079 it's just so brilliant and i really hope we get 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:09.660 a lot more from her and a lot of good interaction 00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:11.259 between her and the doctor because the other 00:17:11.259 --> 00:17:15.019 thing I liked was that um when the doctor was 00:17:15.019 --> 00:17:18.259 shocking kid over and over again we had Susan 00:17:18.259 --> 00:17:22.160 going grandfather stop and he didn't it took 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:24.279 until Belinda arrived and for him to see that 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:27.720 Belinda was alive for him to stop like maybe 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:29.640 he wasn't believing it was really Susan or that 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:32.950 it could be real but like Susan not being able 00:17:32.950 --> 00:17:35.549 to stop the doctor is a pretty dark moment. And 00:17:35.549 --> 00:17:38.470 I love darker doctor stuff where he's, you know, 00:17:38.490 --> 00:17:40.789 having that anger and stuff that he doesn't normally 00:17:40.789 --> 00:17:43.150 have. So I absolutely love that scene, but I 00:17:43.150 --> 00:17:45.690 definitely am looking forward to seeing how they 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:47.690 follow it up. The only thing I'm really worried 00:17:47.690 --> 00:17:49.950 about with Susan coming back is that they're 00:17:49.950 --> 00:17:53.809 almost inevitably going to say it's the first 00:17:53.809 --> 00:17:56.430 time the doctor's seen her since he left her. 00:17:56.470 --> 00:17:58.470 And so that's going to retcon a whole lot of 00:17:58.470 --> 00:18:00.769 brilliant, brilliant material from Big Finish. 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.299 I loved her arc with the Eighth Doctor. I loved 00:18:04.299 --> 00:18:06.400 her getting her own spin -off in the Time War 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.680 and, of course, all the companion chronicles 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:12.400 that deal with her after the Doctor left her 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:14.619 and especially the most recent box set. They 00:18:14.619 --> 00:18:17.920 did a brilliant job of following up on after 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.299 Alex had died and she's mourning him and talking 00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:23.339 about how she finally realised she needed to 00:18:23.339 --> 00:18:25.779 move on from the Doctor but she couldn't and 00:18:25.779 --> 00:18:29.630 it's so much brilliant material for Susan. It's 00:18:29.630 --> 00:18:31.950 going to be really sad if just after we've got 00:18:31.950 --> 00:18:34.190 that, a couple of weeks later, it's going to 00:18:34.190 --> 00:18:37.829 be not canon anymore. But, I mean, we'll find 00:18:37.829 --> 00:18:39.930 our headcanons. We'll find a way to make it work. 00:18:40.130 --> 00:18:43.369 But, yeah, it's the one thing that's making me 00:18:43.369 --> 00:18:45.950 slightly apprehensive about her return. But the 00:18:45.950 --> 00:18:48.690 excitement and the joy and the eagerness to see 00:18:48.690 --> 00:18:52.990 where they go far outweighs the worries and questions 00:18:52.990 --> 00:18:56.150 of canonicities. But, yeah, it'll be really interesting 00:18:56.150 --> 00:18:58.779 to see her back properly. I'm looking forward 00:18:58.779 --> 00:19:03.079 to it so much. I'm going to say what I always 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:05.599 say when a canon discussion comes up. Time War 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:10.539 messed it up. Everything's fine. It's the only 00:19:10.539 --> 00:19:12.299 way you can approach it with Doctor Who, I think. 00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:17.359 Yeah, it is really good to sort of have these 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:21.400 little moments of Susan, but I... I want it to 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:23.980 go somewhere and I want it to go somewhere meaningful. 00:19:24.339 --> 00:19:28.599 Like Susan's return could be a big point in an 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:32.859 episode on its own, but it's actually a small 00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:36.359 point so far across two episodes that have dealt 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:40.940 with so many other things. There's even talk 00:19:40.940 --> 00:19:44.000 about Omega. Well, there's not even talk. Omega 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.099 is coming back. It was mentioned in the episode. 00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:48.240 It wasn't shown. We don't know what Omega is 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.210 going to look like. And I think we got some voice 00:19:51.210 --> 00:19:54.809 clips that were Stephen Thorne, but for obvious 00:19:54.809 --> 00:19:57.289 reasons, he's not going to be playing Gomer in 00:19:57.289 --> 00:20:02.710 this. And the interesting thing about those clips 00:20:02.710 --> 00:20:05.750 was it wasn't actually clips from the three doctors. 00:20:05.910 --> 00:20:08.789 Those clips were actually from Big Finish. They 00:20:08.789 --> 00:20:11.329 were from Gallifrey Intervention Earth. And so 00:20:11.329 --> 00:20:14.769 it's really cool that we're getting a tie back 00:20:14.769 --> 00:20:19.339 to Big Finish in some small way. Yeah, that's 00:20:19.339 --> 00:20:22.079 certainly going to be interesting to see how 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:26.900 that connects, if it does. But it's an awful 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.960 lot connecting together. And that's kind of my 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.740 problem here. Like, I want the Doctor and Susan 00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:37.880 meeting again on screen to be a big, big thing. 00:20:37.940 --> 00:20:41.960 I want it to be huge. And my concern is that 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:44.720 it's going to be, oh, hello, this is my granddaughter. 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:48.990 Meet Ruby, meet Mel, meet... Belinda, meet Keita 00:20:48.990 --> 00:20:53.349 from Unit. Anyway, got to go and fight Omega 00:20:53.349 --> 00:20:57.529 now and the Rani and the other Rani. Bye. I'm 00:20:57.529 --> 00:21:00.490 just really, really worried that it's going to 00:21:00.490 --> 00:21:04.130 be a little bit hand -wavy when it should be 00:21:04.130 --> 00:21:07.829 huge and it should be Susan -centric. And I just 00:21:07.829 --> 00:21:10.150 don't think that's where it's going to go. Like 00:21:10.150 --> 00:21:14.210 Mel coming in in the giggle, absolutely fine. 00:21:14.329 --> 00:21:19.049 That worked. It made sense. And she became a 00:21:19.049 --> 00:21:21.289 companion. She stood there and she held on to 00:21:21.289 --> 00:21:24.970 the Doctor as she thought she was going to regenerate 00:21:24.970 --> 00:21:28.769 as he bi -generated. Again, Mel became pretty 00:21:28.769 --> 00:21:32.470 much full -on companion during the last finale. 00:21:32.529 --> 00:21:35.809 It was the Doctor and Ruby and Mel that survived 00:21:35.809 --> 00:21:41.529 being turned to dust. So how are we going to 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:43.250 get that with Susan? Are we going to get that 00:21:43.250 --> 00:21:47.089 with Susan? When there's so... much other stuff 00:21:47.089 --> 00:21:51.190 there as well so that's that it's becoming a 00:21:51.190 --> 00:21:53.450 bigger concern just because last week i said 00:21:53.450 --> 00:21:55.730 there's loads and loads going on here and now 00:21:55.730 --> 00:21:57.809 it just feels like there's more going on and 00:21:57.809 --> 00:22:00.730 actually wish world hasn't really done much with 00:22:00.730 --> 00:22:03.609 all of the stuff that we were talking about last 00:22:03.609 --> 00:22:07.569 week um it's a very it's a very odd approach 00:22:07.569 --> 00:22:10.309 i found which will be a bit of a thing that gives 00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:12.829 me hope in regard to that is the actual next 00:22:12.829 --> 00:22:15.640 episode i've heard is going to be It's going 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:19.779 to be 66 minutes, not the usual 45, 50. So they've 00:22:19.779 --> 00:22:22.740 got time to cover everything if they do it well. 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:25.819 And like you say, I mean, I've got the same worries 00:22:25.819 --> 00:22:28.319 that it won't be done well, but I'm optimistic 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:29.779 because I love the character and I think they 00:22:29.779 --> 00:22:34.119 wouldn't bring her back after 60 years and not 00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:36.119 do something good and meaningful with it. So 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:37.940 it's just a question of how well it lands and 00:22:37.940 --> 00:22:41.299 how well they realise it. I'm more optimistic 00:22:41.299 --> 00:22:43.880 than I am worried, but I can totally see why 00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:47.180 you'd be more worried than optimistic also. So, 00:22:47.180 --> 00:22:50.720 yeah, it'll be interesting to see where it goes 00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:53.079 and hopefully it'll be satisfactory for everyone. 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:58.880 With any luck, yes. But, of course, there was 00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:00.759 a lot of other stuff going on, as we've said, 00:23:00.859 --> 00:23:04.799 so let's delve into that a tad. We got to kind 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.029 of see the Rani's... together properly in this 00:23:08.029 --> 00:23:12.430 episode. We got the little teasy scene at the 00:23:12.430 --> 00:23:16.509 end of Interstellar Song Contest, but we never 00:23:16.509 --> 00:23:20.730 quite got a proper big scene with the two of 00:23:20.730 --> 00:23:22.450 them. And we get that a little bit more here. 00:23:22.690 --> 00:23:27.309 And we do see, as we suspected, that Anita Dobson's 00:23:27.309 --> 00:23:31.930 Rani's a little bit unhappy with being the not 00:23:31.930 --> 00:23:36.400 definitive one, the more subservient one. I think, 00:23:36.460 --> 00:23:39.640 you know, she's, my prediction is she will, she'll 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:41.720 turn the tables at some point, all will seem 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:43.700 lost and she'll go, nope, I've had enough of 00:23:43.700 --> 00:23:48.559 this. I'm the main Rani now. Something like that. 00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:52.559 So to kind of, what did we think about the two 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.960 Ranis, Mansor, you go first. It seems to be, 00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:59.539 to me, like quite obviously setting up for some 00:23:59.539 --> 00:24:02.720 sort of twist at the end. Like, I think we talked 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:06.910 about this previously that, The shift from Mrs. 00:24:06.950 --> 00:24:11.410 Flood being so mysterious and intimidating in 00:24:11.410 --> 00:24:15.549 other moments previously to suddenly being so 00:24:15.549 --> 00:24:19.269 subservient, it seems really obvious to me, and 00:24:19.269 --> 00:24:21.230 especially with some of her comments this week, 00:24:21.309 --> 00:24:27.809 like kind of sort of needling at the new Rani 00:24:27.809 --> 00:24:29.869 and complaining when she's making the sandwich. 00:24:30.630 --> 00:24:32.930 It feels like there's some sort of betrayal or 00:24:32.930 --> 00:24:36.299 twist coming up. in that dynamic but it's also 00:24:36.299 --> 00:24:38.279 interesting that they they have that dynamic 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:40.319 but also there's that sort of moment of victory 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:44.859 where they're like they're both toasting together 00:24:44.859 --> 00:24:48.680 and they're kind of so it's not a simple kind 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.700 of relationship there they kind of are working 00:24:52.700 --> 00:24:56.599 together as well and Conrad is kind of even lower 00:24:56.599 --> 00:24:58.900 in the pecking order it seems like he's being 00:24:58.900 --> 00:25:03.410 kept as a prisoner pretty much is the vibe I 00:25:03.410 --> 00:25:07.089 got. So yeah, interesting dynamic. Again, with 00:25:07.089 --> 00:25:08.890 like so much going on next week, I'm curious 00:25:08.890 --> 00:25:13.329 to know, I'm sort of anxious and interested about 00:25:13.329 --> 00:25:17.049 how much space there will be to wrap it up in 00:25:17.049 --> 00:25:24.049 an interesting way. And yeah, so yeah, I don't 00:25:24.049 --> 00:25:27.009 have much more to say on that, but I think both 00:25:27.009 --> 00:25:31.759 their performances, like... So Anita Dobson's 00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:34.519 character, I don't know if there was something 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:39.359 said in behind -the -scenes stuff. Did Russell 00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:42.279 T Davies know that she was the Rani when he first 00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:43.720 wrote her? I think there was something about 00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:48.579 him saying that he didn't, which makes a bit 00:25:48.579 --> 00:25:51.920 of sense because you look at some of her previous 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:56.000 scenes and they don't really seem like the character 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:01.500 as much as Archie Punjabi's. version does um 00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:06.200 so so yeah i mean i've seen i've seen arguments 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.859 that mrs flood might have worked better as just 00:26:08.859 --> 00:26:13.519 a new villain um and that would have been interesting 00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:15.619 because it would have allowed anita dobson to 00:26:15.619 --> 00:26:18.559 continue to have center stage and to just be 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.359 this new interesting threat but instead we've 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:24.779 got this series of revelations which i'm excited 00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:28.819 about season coming back and The Rani to an extent 00:26:28.819 --> 00:26:32.599 as well, but Susan, The Rani and Omega, that 00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:37.259 almost seems like a parody of what the rumours 00:26:37.259 --> 00:26:39.980 are every year about what the big reveal is going 00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:44.079 to be. Like if Paul McGann turns up next week, 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:48.920 that'll be to announce his new spin -off series 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:53.250 set in the Time War. That will sort of add weight 00:26:53.250 --> 00:26:55.210 to the theory that Russell T Davies is just writing 00:26:55.210 --> 00:26:58.950 some sort of metatextual story about fan wishes 00:26:58.950 --> 00:27:03.269 coming true. So anyway, yeah, I've gotten off 00:27:03.269 --> 00:27:08.049 the subject of the Rani's, but yeah, I'm enjoying 00:27:08.049 --> 00:27:11.349 both their performances, but I'm interested to 00:27:11.349 --> 00:27:13.950 know how it will all resolve. Yeah, we'll see. 00:27:14.009 --> 00:27:19.230 We'll see where it's going. Interesting places, 00:27:19.250 --> 00:27:23.410 I'm sure. I guess another point, and this is 00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:25.049 kind of harking back to what Jimmy was saying 00:27:25.049 --> 00:27:33.769 before, really. Would you have rather say, okay, 00:27:33.970 --> 00:27:38.569 it's definitely the Rani, and there has been 00:27:38.569 --> 00:27:41.970 some discussion online about... Anita Dobson's 00:27:41.970 --> 00:27:43.970 character wasn't originally meant to be the Rani. 00:27:44.049 --> 00:27:46.329 And when you look into some of the dialogue from 00:27:46.329 --> 00:27:49.049 the last series, it kind of doesn't make any 00:27:49.049 --> 00:27:51.150 level of sense whatsoever. It's just kind of 00:27:51.150 --> 00:27:56.049 generic, mysterious sounding, slightly sinister 00:27:56.049 --> 00:27:59.710 dialogue, I guess. But say we are, you know, 00:27:59.710 --> 00:28:02.829 okay, the character is definitely the Rani. Would 00:28:02.829 --> 00:28:05.289 you have rather it happened without the bi -generation 00:28:05.289 --> 00:28:09.079 and just... let's just have Anita Dobson as the 00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:12.099 Rani. Do we need the second Rani? Like, we've 00:28:12.099 --> 00:28:14.680 got a great second Rani and I'm really enjoying 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.880 both Ranis, but I think the way Mrs. Flood was 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.559 built up, it might have been better to give her 00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:24.599 a fair crack of the whip. I don't really see 00:28:24.599 --> 00:28:29.059 the benefit of the bi -generation. So just kind 00:28:29.059 --> 00:28:31.279 of, what are your thoughts on that? Well, yeah, 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.799 basically, as I said, Mrs. Flood, as you said, 00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:37.400 she never really acted much like the Rani. And 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:40.079 then when they did Five Generations, she also 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:43.779 became subservient and not really standing up 00:28:43.779 --> 00:28:46.220 for herself. And so, I mean, I liked Mrs. Flood 00:28:46.220 --> 00:28:48.319 as a character, but I think she's a bit rubbish 00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:50.579 as the Rani and Archie's been amazing. I mean, 00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:53.220 I wish they'd either kept Mrs. Flood as her own 00:28:53.220 --> 00:28:56.299 separate thing and dealt with it that way, or 00:28:56.299 --> 00:28:58.779 they'd just had Archie from the start and been 00:28:58.779 --> 00:29:01.549 more Rani -like. Or heck, do both. Have Mrs. 00:29:01.650 --> 00:29:04.390 Flood be her own thing and she's working with 00:29:04.390 --> 00:29:08.369 the Rani. But, yeah, Mrs. Flood I liked on her 00:29:08.369 --> 00:29:11.849 own account, but she's rubbish as the Rani. She 00:29:11.849 --> 00:29:13.869 was a good character in her own right, but she's 00:29:13.869 --> 00:29:16.970 a crap Rani, let's be honest. So I think I would 00:29:16.970 --> 00:29:20.130 have just rathered Archie get the part of the 00:29:20.130 --> 00:29:23.869 Rani and skip the bi -generation. It just, yeah, 00:29:23.990 --> 00:29:25.930 Archie would have been so much better and she's 00:29:25.930 --> 00:29:29.200 really been amazing and just... an episode and 00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:33.059 a single scene, she's captured the role perfectly 00:29:33.059 --> 00:29:35.660 and really makes a great successor to the original. 00:29:36.339 --> 00:29:39.420 I think you can squint and make it work with 00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:43.259 Mrs. Flood being an incarnation of the Rani, 00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:46.859 but like kind of an aberration, like the War 00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:50.640 Doctor or that one iteration of the Eleven who's 00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:57.180 not completely insane and evil. So you can kind 00:29:57.180 --> 00:29:59.099 of squint and make it work that way. But yeah, 00:29:59.140 --> 00:30:02.339 I completely agree that to have a version of 00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:05.940 the Rani who's not identical but evokes the kind 00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:10.220 of character that Kate Amara was playing, having 00:30:10.220 --> 00:30:12.960 Anita Dobson just suddenly switch to that would 00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:18.220 have been a bit odd. Because she's not... I know 00:30:18.220 --> 00:30:21.359 she does the disguise thing in Mark of the Rani 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:24.099 to... So I suppose it is part of her character 00:30:24.099 --> 00:30:26.000 as well. But there's kind of more what you think 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.259 about the Master, like, you know, spending years 00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:32.319 in a disguise just to mess with the Doctor. It 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:35.380 doesn't feel like that's the kind of thing that 00:30:35.380 --> 00:30:37.960 the Rani would put time and effort into doing. 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:43.259 So I've always found the Rani's disguise in the 00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:46.960 Mark of the Rani to make sense. you know, little 00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:49.700 old woman that owns a bathhouse. No one's going 00:30:49.700 --> 00:30:51.660 to suspect that. No one's going to consider anything 00:30:51.660 --> 00:30:56.119 sinister. So I kind of see why that disguise 00:30:56.119 --> 00:31:00.259 happened and that worked. There's certainly more 00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:02.160 logic to it than the master dressing up as a 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:07.380 scarecrow. But yeah, you're right. It's kind 00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:12.259 of... Yeah, why was Theroni disguised? You know, 00:31:12.259 --> 00:31:14.680 the Doctor met Mrs. Flood. Why did he not identify 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:19.240 Mrs. Flood as a Time Lord? And why did she drop 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.759 her shopping when she was on a street with no 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:25.680 one else there and the TARDIS, was it dematerialised 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.160 or materialised? There's a shot early on in one 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:31.099 of Mrs. Flood's early scenes where she just seems 00:31:31.099 --> 00:31:33.900 really shocked and there's no one else watching. 00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:39.720 And the breaking the fourth wall stuff. oh yeah 00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:43.839 yeah which yeah which is a question about is 00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:47.480 that just going to be left or is that going to 00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:51.819 be part of the reality or plot well i mean the 00:31:51.819 --> 00:31:54.180 doctor broke the four four two now that seems 00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:56.940 to be just a new thing because um in lux when 00:31:56.940 --> 00:32:02.140 he says cut cut cut to um to mr ringerding and 00:32:02.140 --> 00:32:04.200 then he looks at the camera and asks you know 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:07.430 why am i who am i saying cut to and way back 00:32:07.430 --> 00:32:10.710 in The Devil's Chord when he said something about, 00:32:10.789 --> 00:32:13.210 oh, I thought that music was non -diegetic. And 00:32:13.210 --> 00:32:16.890 so maybe it's just a new Time Lord thing that 00:32:16.890 --> 00:32:20.710 all Time Lords can break the four of wool. That's 00:32:20.710 --> 00:32:23.890 the only explanation I can think of. But, yeah, 00:32:24.009 --> 00:32:27.730 it's not very satisfactory if it doesn't have 00:32:27.730 --> 00:32:31.140 some meaning. There are little moments with like 00:32:31.140 --> 00:32:33.200 the first and fourth Doctors as well. And the 00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:35.359 12th, where they've each got like moments where 00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:37.440 they... A very Merry Christmas to all of you 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:42.759 at home. And so you can kind of, yeah, write 00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:44.519 it off as all part of that. But I feel like there's 00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:48.200 something distinct about how directly Mrs. Flood 00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:51.259 addressed the audience. That feels like on a 00:32:51.259 --> 00:32:55.740 different level to me. Yeah. I think for those 00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:57.500 examples you mentioned with the Doctor there, 00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:00.630 Jimmy, I think... I think there's a context to 00:33:00.630 --> 00:33:03.910 those. Like, you know, Lux was literally an episode 00:33:03.910 --> 00:33:06.190 about breaking the fourth wall and, you know, 00:33:06.190 --> 00:33:09.589 the Doctor and Ruby crawling out of TV and reality 00:33:09.589 --> 00:33:11.549 being messed with and all that kind of thing. 00:33:11.609 --> 00:33:15.950 Like, I can kind of, you know, and the same with 00:33:15.950 --> 00:33:22.049 the non -diegetic thing. It's a concept that 00:33:22.049 --> 00:33:24.789 they're playing with in the episode, within the 00:33:24.789 --> 00:33:27.809 episode, and I can deal with that. But Mrs. Flood 00:33:27.809 --> 00:33:29.589 has literally just turned around and said to 00:33:29.589 --> 00:33:31.869 the audience, have you not seen a TARDIS before? 00:33:32.049 --> 00:33:36.289 And that kind of thing. And it just, if it is 00:33:36.289 --> 00:33:38.490 the same thing as the doctor breaking the fourth 00:33:38.490 --> 00:33:41.509 wall, it is the fourth wall being broken in a 00:33:41.509 --> 00:33:47.029 different way. And it's clumsier. And again, 00:33:47.210 --> 00:33:49.549 maybe there's an explanation for it. We don't 00:33:49.549 --> 00:33:51.089 know what's going to happen in the next episode. 00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:53.750 pretty much at all they could still be going 00:33:53.750 --> 00:33:58.170 to tie into what happened in um in lux as well 00:33:58.170 --> 00:34:00.769 because they made that big point in that scene 00:34:00.769 --> 00:34:03.609 with the fans about oh we're the sort of characters 00:34:03.609 --> 00:34:05.750 that don't have last names and oh we're all going 00:34:05.750 --> 00:34:07.890 to disappear as soon as you're gone and then 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:10.070 they had that scene during the credits where 00:34:10.070 --> 00:34:13.590 they were still alive and in their credits the 00:34:13.590 --> 00:34:16.829 characters did have surnames so i mean maybe 00:34:16.829 --> 00:34:18.849 they're going to tie back to that with the fourth 00:34:18.849 --> 00:34:22.119 wall as well because It seems interesting that 00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:23.760 they'd make such a big point of, oh, we don't 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:25.719 have last names, we're not going to survive, 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:28.619 and then make a point of them surviving and of 00:34:28.619 --> 00:34:31.260 them having last names. So, yeah, interesting 00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:35.860 to see if that's going to tie in as well. And 00:34:35.860 --> 00:34:39.699 again, actually, is that something that we're 00:34:39.699 --> 00:34:41.340 going to come back to? Because we've come back 00:34:41.340 --> 00:34:45.099 to so much other stuff in this series. It'll 00:34:45.099 --> 00:34:47.820 be interesting to see if we revisit those fan 00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:53.900 characters again. Well, let's sort of... Our 00:34:53.900 --> 00:34:58.760 last main talking point, really, is let's do 00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:03.500 some speculation, like Omega. Omega's been mentioned. 00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:09.119 We've heard the audio clips, as we've said. Do 00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:11.059 we think we're going to see Omega? Do we think 00:35:11.059 --> 00:35:14.619 Omega's going to look like he did in The Three 00:35:14.619 --> 00:35:18.110 Doctors or Ark of Infinity? You know, are we 00:35:18.110 --> 00:35:19.889 going to have Peter Davison playing him? I've 00:35:19.889 --> 00:35:23.469 seen that one kind of suggested somewhere. What 00:35:23.469 --> 00:35:27.889 do we think Omega is going to be? How do we think 00:35:27.889 --> 00:35:31.489 Omega is going to be appearing? Now, a lot of 00:35:31.489 --> 00:35:34.630 the stuff that the official Doctor Who social 00:35:34.630 --> 00:35:36.469 media channels have been putting out this week 00:35:36.469 --> 00:35:39.329 have very much been Omega is back. Here's a picture 00:35:39.329 --> 00:35:42.030 of Omega from Three Doctors. And I've seen some 00:35:42.030 --> 00:35:44.909 what looks like new artwork. It's certainly very 00:35:44.909 --> 00:35:49.619 good Photoshop. So where do we think the Omega 00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:52.760 thing is going? Because normally we'd have had 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.139 the character by now, like the character would 00:35:55.139 --> 00:35:58.059 have been there and visible for the cliffhanger, 00:35:58.139 --> 00:36:00.559 but all we got was the name drop. I find that 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:02.559 quite interesting and I wonder if there's a reason 00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:06.139 for it. Go ahead, Jimmy. I'm not quite sure how 00:36:06.139 --> 00:36:09.199 they're going to realise it, but I've got, I 00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:14.059 think, a good theory of what the Rani's plan 00:36:14.059 --> 00:36:16.469 with him might be because... We've had this whole 00:36:16.469 --> 00:36:19.889 arc ever since the Doctor, the 14th Doctor, did 00:36:19.889 --> 00:36:21.690 that salt thing at the edge of the universe and, 00:36:21.750 --> 00:36:24.590 oh, we've made myths real, we've made gods real. 00:36:25.070 --> 00:36:28.050 And the whole point of the Rani in the classic 00:36:28.050 --> 00:36:30.929 series was that she was like an immoral scientist. 00:36:30.989 --> 00:36:33.829 She was all about science and doing experiments. 00:36:34.489 --> 00:36:38.210 And so I'm thinking what might be happening is, 00:36:38.309 --> 00:36:42.130 because Omega's such a famous scientist in Gallifrey's 00:36:42.130 --> 00:36:45.010 history, like he managed to work out... the eye 00:36:45.010 --> 00:36:47.110 of harmony and give them the power to time travel 00:36:47.110 --> 00:36:51.550 so i'm thinking the rani might be she's used 00:36:51.550 --> 00:36:54.469 her magic and stuff and gods to open the way 00:36:54.469 --> 00:36:57.489 to omega but i suspect what she wants him for 00:36:57.489 --> 00:37:00.230 is to restore science to the universe to end 00:37:00.230 --> 00:37:04.469 this magic and gods and myth stuff and put the 00:37:04.469 --> 00:37:07.590 universe back the way it used to be and it'd 00:37:07.590 --> 00:37:09.550 be interesting if that was the case because i 00:37:09.550 --> 00:37:13.489 mean that would be It's interesting to see them 00:37:13.489 --> 00:37:16.409 go back to normal after these more experimental 00:37:16.409 --> 00:37:19.630 seasons. And it would also be a great way to 00:37:19.630 --> 00:37:22.989 set up for, well, now we don't know if Disney's 00:37:22.989 --> 00:37:24.510 continuing or not. We don't know if it's going 00:37:24.510 --> 00:37:27.309 back to just the BBC. And it'd be a good way 00:37:27.309 --> 00:37:29.809 to set up. Things are about to change and prepare 00:37:29.809 --> 00:37:33.550 for a new era. So, yeah, I'm sort of keen to 00:37:33.550 --> 00:37:35.389 see where it goes. But that's my speculation 00:37:35.389 --> 00:37:39.860 for what Rani's intention is with Omega. As to 00:37:39.860 --> 00:37:42.219 how they'll realise him, I've got no idea and 00:37:42.219 --> 00:37:45.059 I'm really looking forward to finding out. Yeah, 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:46.539 I think that, like, you know, having said that, 00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:50.860 it's kind of doing a list of rumours from the 00:37:50.860 --> 00:37:54.260 last, you know, few years. I think there is that 00:37:54.260 --> 00:37:56.559 interesting connection between the Rani and Omega 00:37:56.559 --> 00:38:00.780 about science and him being this first Time Lord 00:38:00.780 --> 00:38:04.880 scientist. So, yeah, I'm curious if something's 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.440 made of that. Just because there's so much to 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.969 resolve, like... I feel like we'll see him maybe, 00:38:11.090 --> 00:38:15.690 but he won't play a substantial active role in 00:38:15.690 --> 00:38:19.409 the plot. It might be more of a kind of threat, 00:38:19.510 --> 00:38:23.449 like was it the end of time part two where like 00:38:23.449 --> 00:38:27.170 Gallifrey is looming in the sky and it's the 00:38:27.170 --> 00:38:30.309 threat of it breaking through that's there for 00:38:30.309 --> 00:38:33.750 the whole episode. So maybe there's moments of 00:38:33.750 --> 00:38:37.809 Omega or you see him in the underworld or underverse. 00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:41.219 but we don't really spend much time with him 00:38:41.219 --> 00:38:44.760 or like there's a mention about his like his 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:46.920 body and that relevance the violence and that 00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:50.019 i wonder if he's going to just possess one of 00:38:50.019 --> 00:38:55.039 our other characters like um uh you know like 00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:57.840 is that going to be a way of having him in the 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:00.260 story but we're just using one of our existing 00:39:00.260 --> 00:39:05.960 actors um so yeah i just feel like that list 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:08.630 of things that we've talked about that could 00:39:08.630 --> 00:39:10.809 do with wrapping up. I'm sure not all of them 00:39:10.809 --> 00:39:13.010 are going to get a hugely satisfying resolution, 00:39:13.170 --> 00:39:16.849 but even like those main central ones, there's 00:39:16.849 --> 00:39:18.829 just not going to be space for loads of Omega. 00:39:20.590 --> 00:39:23.750 See, now you've said that, I reckon what they'll 00:39:23.750 --> 00:39:26.909 do is they will have Omega possess Belinda and 00:39:26.909 --> 00:39:29.030 we'll have yet another episode where we don't 00:39:29.030 --> 00:39:33.110 actually spend any time with Belinda, which seems 00:39:33.110 --> 00:39:37.969 to be the recurring theme. Yeah, there's... Well, 00:39:37.989 --> 00:39:42.070 I think we've heard about reshoots and I was 00:39:42.070 --> 00:39:44.170 wondering about longer runtime as well. Like, 00:39:44.170 --> 00:39:46.449 was this always designed to be a longer episode 00:39:46.449 --> 00:39:52.010 or are these reshoots rather than replacing things? 00:39:52.710 --> 00:39:58.210 Is it like a kind of coda that has been put onto 00:39:58.210 --> 00:40:02.070 the end of this episode? And that might be about. 00:40:02.989 --> 00:40:06.110 The Doctor and regeneration and we're leaving 00:40:06.110 --> 00:40:08.050 him in a certain place. Or it might be about 00:40:08.050 --> 00:40:11.590 Belinda's story, giving that some sort of definitive 00:40:11.590 --> 00:40:16.590 ending. Or both. It could be something involving 00:40:16.590 --> 00:40:20.230 both of them if they are actually Poppy's mother 00:40:20.230 --> 00:40:23.369 and father. It would be very curious to see. 00:40:23.510 --> 00:40:27.210 And I'm sure it will all tie together in some 00:40:27.210 --> 00:40:31.329 way. It's just how good that way is, I suppose. 00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:37.619 Well, before we sign off, anything else that 00:40:37.619 --> 00:40:44.639 you'd like to mention at all? All I can think 00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:48.340 of is that with not knowing whether the series 00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:50.460 is going to continue straight away or whether 00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:53.239 Disney is going to come back or not, my biggest 00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:56.219 hope is I've absolutely loved Judy Gatwick as 00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:59.239 the Doctor and I've loved Belinda. Despite them 00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:01.159 not giving her much to do, I think the actress 00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:04.059 is brilliant and she's done a great job. And 00:41:04.059 --> 00:41:08.019 so I'm really hoping that they both stay as the 00:41:08.019 --> 00:41:10.019 current companion and doctor. I'm hoping they're 00:41:10.019 --> 00:41:13.639 not both leaving because even if one is and one 00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:16.840 isn't, that'll be better than nothing. But I 00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:19.039 want to see more of them together. I really hope 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:21.880 that we're not going to get an era this short. 00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:28.300 I hope they've got more to come. I think I'd 00:41:28.300 --> 00:41:30.380 actually take that a step further and say that 00:41:30.380 --> 00:41:34.719 I'd really like it if we actually got the Doctor 00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:38.599 and Ruby and Belinda as a TARDIS team for a season. 00:41:38.659 --> 00:41:41.880 I don't imagine for a million years it's actually 00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:44.480 going to happen. It would be wonderful if it 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:48.860 did. Oh, yeah. One thing that the press release 00:41:48.860 --> 00:41:54.059 for when they first announced Belinda said was 00:41:54.059 --> 00:41:56.960 that the Doctor's going to have two companions. 00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:02.639 And we've not had that at all. Belinda and Ruby 00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:06.239 haven't really met. They had, what, a couple 00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:08.639 of seconds on screen together in Wishworld, I 00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:14.280 think. But yeah, this is not the Doctor and two 00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:18.039 companions, this series and the way it's gone. 00:42:18.219 --> 00:42:22.840 So I kind of hope the three of them do get to 00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:28.159 do some stuff together. But again, we're already 00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.260 heading into a pretty busy episode and I'm not 00:42:30.260 --> 00:42:32.780 sure if we will get that properly. And the other 00:42:32.780 --> 00:42:36.400 thing, I doubt there'll be space for this beyond 00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:39.639 something very subtle, but wondering if there'll 00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:43.940 be any lead into the spinoff. I wouldn't be surprised 00:42:43.940 --> 00:42:47.739 if there's a trailer, although there's a question 00:42:47.739 --> 00:42:49.619 about whether the spinoff is going to be held 00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:52.900 off until next year. to fill a bit of a gap if 00:42:52.900 --> 00:42:56.019 we don't get season three for a while um but 00:42:56.019 --> 00:42:57.500 yeah i could still see like at least a teaser 00:42:57.500 --> 00:42:59.900 trailer for the war between the land and the 00:42:59.900 --> 00:43:01.860 sea but i don't know if there'll be space to 00:43:01.860 --> 00:43:05.760 set it up i think it's been confirmed was it 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:08.159 maybe russell t davis said on instagram that 00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:11.039 stick around at the end for the first look at 00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:14.139 a teaser for it or something like that okay so 00:43:14.139 --> 00:43:19.130 as far as i'm aware I'm not completely making 00:43:19.130 --> 00:43:21.989 this up and I have read this, but I'm fairly 00:43:21.989 --> 00:43:25.130 sure, to be honest, I think my only source of 00:43:25.130 --> 00:43:28.329 anything throughout this series has been following 00:43:28.329 --> 00:43:30.590 Russell T. Davis on Instagram and he has been 00:43:30.590 --> 00:43:33.230 posting an awful lot about what's going on and 00:43:33.230 --> 00:43:36.650 that kind of thing. But yeah, I seem to remember 00:43:36.650 --> 00:43:39.769 there being something about we'll get our first 00:43:39.769 --> 00:43:42.949 look, but I think it is just going to be a teaser. 00:43:44.170 --> 00:43:47.329 But it'll be an interesting... Interesting one. 00:43:49.510 --> 00:43:51.650 And yeah, it'll be interesting to know what the 00:43:51.650 --> 00:43:53.789 purpose of this spin -off series is, kind of 00:43:53.789 --> 00:43:57.510 like where. Is it to give us something to keep 00:43:57.510 --> 00:43:59.809 us going while they make more Doctor Who, or 00:43:59.809 --> 00:44:03.469 is it just there for the sake of it? Are we going 00:44:03.469 --> 00:44:06.349 into a gap year? So many questions, and I sincerely 00:44:06.349 --> 00:44:10.329 doubt that in a week's time when we come to discuss 00:44:10.329 --> 00:44:14.769 reality war, we're actually going to really know, 00:44:14.949 --> 00:44:20.199 unfortunately. We shall see. Okay, well, we shall 00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:25.440 leave it there. So that's Wishworld. It left 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.579 me wanting more. Not necessarily in all the best 00:44:28.579 --> 00:44:30.960 ways, though. Don't think it was a bad episode. 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:36.260 I just don't... I'm not as hyped about what it 00:44:36.260 --> 00:44:41.940 did as I was with... Was it The Legend of Ruby 00:44:41.940 --> 00:44:43.920 Sunday last year? I thought that was a really 00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:47.599 good episode. that kind of built up an awful 00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:51.840 lot, whereas this felt a bit like it was treading 00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:54.480 water. But at the same time, quite a lot happened 00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.320 with quite a lot of characters. So we'll see 00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:01.219 where it goes. But the extended length of the 00:45:01.219 --> 00:45:04.780 finale does give me hope, even though there is 00:45:04.780 --> 00:45:07.039 a hell of a lot to fit in there. So roll it on. 00:45:08.619 --> 00:45:11.440 But for now, I will say thank you and goodbye 00:45:11.440 --> 00:45:16.329 to Mansour. Thank you. And thank you and goodbye 00:45:16.329 --> 00:45:21.409 to Jimmy. Thanks very much. And we'll be back 00:45:21.409 --> 00:45:25.989 to discuss the finale next week. Goodbye now.