WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.899 You're listening to a podcast of spurious morality. 00:01:01.579 --> 00:01:04.780 Hello, and welcome to a podcast of spurious morality. 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:07.480 I'm Johnston, and with me this week again, I 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:12.379 have Mansell. Hello. Hello. And we're continuing 00:01:12.379 --> 00:01:16.000 to look at each new episode of Doctor Who on 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:19.980 its week of release. This week is Lux, second 00:01:19.980 --> 00:01:23.939 episode of season... We're back to seasons, aren't 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:28.790 we? Season two. And I... Straight off the bat, 00:01:28.829 --> 00:01:30.689 I liked this one. I thought it was a really good 00:01:30.689 --> 00:01:34.569 episode. I felt as though we were finally seeing 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:36.730 the Disney money on screen. You know, all of 00:01:36.730 --> 00:01:39.290 this, you know, the production budget is so much 00:01:39.290 --> 00:01:42.689 higher now and that sort of thing. This one was 00:01:42.689 --> 00:01:46.269 visually fantastic, which we will discuss a little 00:01:46.269 --> 00:01:49.170 bit more in a bit. But I thought it was just 00:01:49.170 --> 00:01:52.060 a nice sort of... Started off as a good old -fashioned 00:01:52.060 --> 00:01:54.640 Doctor Who mystery, Doctor and Companion land 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:56.819 somewhere, there's something weird going on, 00:01:56.840 --> 00:02:01.540 let's investigate it. And it sort of turned into 00:02:01.540 --> 00:02:07.379 a, maybe, well, I suppose a spiritual sequel 00:02:07.379 --> 00:02:11.539 to The Devil's Court, similar thing. Very, very 00:02:11.539 --> 00:02:13.919 similar villain, and it's all sort of building 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:17.780 towards some kind of resolution with the Pantheon, 00:02:17.780 --> 00:02:21.840 I guess. Yeah, awful lot of fun, this one. Some 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.460 really good performances. It looked great. And 00:02:24.460 --> 00:02:28.900 I really do like how the Doctor and Belinda work 00:02:28.900 --> 00:02:31.139 together. I do think they're a really good pairing. 00:02:32.180 --> 00:02:34.960 So your sort of general thoughts on the episode, 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:40.740 Mansour, go ahead. Yeah, I like this one. And 00:02:40.740 --> 00:02:44.639 yeah, a lot of parallels with The Devil's Chord. 00:02:47.510 --> 00:02:50.770 So when that clip came out ahead of time of them 00:02:50.770 --> 00:02:52.689 getting dressed and heading out in the TARDIS, 00:02:52.870 --> 00:02:58.469 it seemed a bit odd that Belinda would go from 00:02:58.469 --> 00:03:03.550 being so confrontational and questioning to just 00:03:03.550 --> 00:03:07.270 having fun. And there is still a bit of a gear 00:03:07.270 --> 00:03:11.150 shift, but I like the way that that was part 00:03:11.150 --> 00:03:13.229 of the episode, that they were having conversations 00:03:13.229 --> 00:03:17.349 right the way through about... coming to trust 00:03:17.349 --> 00:03:21.729 him and that wasn't completely dropped. So yeah, 00:03:21.789 --> 00:03:25.129 really enjoying their dynamic and also the fact 00:03:25.129 --> 00:03:29.349 that Belinda's character has got some continuity 00:03:29.349 --> 00:03:32.849 and coherence from the last episode. Yeah, I 00:03:32.849 --> 00:03:37.330 quite liked how that uncertainty from Belinda 00:03:37.330 --> 00:03:42.770 continued through to this. It would be very easy 00:03:42.770 --> 00:03:46.340 to set something like that up and then... drop 00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:48.199 it and we never hear from it again. And, you 00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:49.939 know, stuff like that has happened in the past. 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.719 Remember when Rose was unhappy about Mickey joining 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:56.120 the TARDIS at the end of school reunion and that 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:58.280 seemed to never, ever go anywhere ever again. 00:03:58.860 --> 00:04:00.900 Well, there was a time jump with that, wasn't 00:04:00.900 --> 00:04:03.379 there? But yeah, like on screen, we didn't see 00:04:03.379 --> 00:04:07.060 that. Yeah, there just wasn't. In fact, there 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:09.020 wasn't a time jump, was there? Because didn't 00:04:09.020 --> 00:04:11.080 Mickey say something about, oh, great, it's a 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:14.400 spaceship at the start of Girl in the Fireplace? 00:04:14.969 --> 00:04:17.129 Oh, yeah, unless they've never landed on that. 00:04:17.389 --> 00:04:19.110 Yeah, I think it's something like, oh, I'll get 00:04:19.110 --> 00:04:21.029 my spaceship on a first go or something like 00:04:21.029 --> 00:04:25.009 that. It's before Boomtown, isn't it? Like, their 00:04:25.009 --> 00:04:29.990 dynamic is, like, completely changed at that 00:04:29.990 --> 00:04:34.550 point. Yeah. The point being, you know, stuff 00:04:34.550 --> 00:04:37.250 like this does get introduced and then very swiftly 00:04:37.250 --> 00:04:41.180 dropped. Yeah. I think Nyssa and the destruction 00:04:41.180 --> 00:04:43.519 of Trachan as well, that seems to go away pretty 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.399 damn quickly. So all this sort of thing. That 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:50.720 was a big thing. Around that same time, Tegan 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:56.740 having her aunt horrifically killed and it not 00:04:56.740 --> 00:04:59.439 being mentioned that much, or Adra dying, you 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:02.220 get an episode or two and then it's just forgotten. 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:05.790 And despite Tegan wanting to go home... That 00:05:05.790 --> 00:05:08.610 part of it's never really mentioned again. It's 00:05:08.610 --> 00:05:12.430 literally just, no, I want to go to work. So 00:05:12.430 --> 00:05:14.810 yes, we've not got that, which is a good thing. 00:05:14.930 --> 00:05:20.290 It feels like this friendship is earned and being 00:05:20.290 --> 00:05:23.170 developed and all that kind of thing. And I think 00:05:23.170 --> 00:05:27.709 it's kind of a little thing to want, but it's 00:05:27.709 --> 00:05:29.509 definitely something that I do want and something 00:05:29.509 --> 00:05:32.029 that I do think is working here. And the flip 00:05:32.029 --> 00:05:35.930 side is it didn't. sort of dominate the episode 00:05:35.930 --> 00:05:37.930 either. You know, it could very easily have gone 00:05:37.930 --> 00:05:39.990 on a bit too long, been a little bit too heavy 00:05:39.990 --> 00:05:42.790 -handed and all that kind of thing and kind of 00:05:42.790 --> 00:05:44.769 got in the way of telling a story. But there's 00:05:44.769 --> 00:05:47.509 such a good story with such a good villain to 00:05:47.509 --> 00:05:50.430 be told here that I think we've actually got 00:05:50.430 --> 00:05:53.930 quite a good balance. So, yeah, it's really, 00:05:54.009 --> 00:05:57.230 really good to see these characters developing. 00:05:58.629 --> 00:06:01.870 There were a few little things in there that... 00:06:03.569 --> 00:06:05.709 Maybe we could have spent a bit more time on, 00:06:05.750 --> 00:06:09.689 but then we don't need the whole usual checklist 00:06:09.689 --> 00:06:12.009 of new companion things. We had a new companion 00:06:12.009 --> 00:06:15.850 last season and we did, you know, in the last 00:06:15.850 --> 00:06:17.389 couple of years, we've explained regeneration, 00:06:17.649 --> 00:06:20.829 we've explained bigger on the inside, all of 00:06:20.829 --> 00:06:23.470 the usual, you know, this is psychic paper, this 00:06:23.470 --> 00:06:26.730 is the sonic screwdriver. That reintroducing 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:28.829 the viewer to all these concepts while introducing 00:06:28.829 --> 00:06:31.990 a new companion. We don't really need that. But 00:06:31.990 --> 00:06:33.889 at the same time, there was just a reference 00:06:33.889 --> 00:06:37.290 to by generation for, I feel as though it was 00:06:37.290 --> 00:06:40.009 more the audience's benefit than Belinda's because 00:06:40.009 --> 00:06:44.029 there was no real context given to Belinda. She 00:06:44.029 --> 00:06:46.910 probably walked away from that going, well, what 00:06:46.910 --> 00:06:48.410 the hell is he on about? But it makes his hand 00:06:48.410 --> 00:06:50.569 better and he glows a bit. So, okay, carry on. 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.579 And I thought that was a little bit odd that 00:06:53.579 --> 00:06:56.800 he would have used up that reserve of energy 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.100 on his head. And maybe he was hiding how much 00:07:00.100 --> 00:07:02.639 pain he was in, but it didn't seem like the sort 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.740 of critical injury that you would use that for. 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:09.980 It's not quite having a hand chopped off, is 00:07:09.980 --> 00:07:16.480 it? No. But, you know, the rules between healing 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:20.300 and regeneration energy have always been slightly... 00:07:22.659 --> 00:07:26.060 and by generation is a different thing. So I 00:07:26.060 --> 00:07:30.459 guess, yeah, I can let it slide. It's not harming 00:07:30.459 --> 00:07:37.759 the episode for me. So, yeah, I think that while 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:41.279 some little bits were a bit clumsy and maybe 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.100 a bit rushed, I do like the dynamic between the 00:07:44.100 --> 00:07:47.040 Doctor and Belinda and I like where it's going. 00:07:47.139 --> 00:07:50.100 I like that she does trust him more now than 00:07:50.100 --> 00:07:54.069 she did last week. But it took an adventure to 00:07:54.069 --> 00:08:00.050 kind of get through that. I just hope things 00:08:00.050 --> 00:08:02.410 do develop like, you know, next week. I hope 00:08:02.410 --> 00:08:04.490 there is something else. I hope there's something 00:08:04.490 --> 00:08:07.350 that makes her doubt the doctor a little bit 00:08:07.350 --> 00:08:09.910 more or makes her want to get home a bit more 00:08:09.910 --> 00:08:12.889 or just something to move it forward. It would 00:08:12.889 --> 00:08:15.110 be a real shame to have all of that fantastic 00:08:15.110 --> 00:08:20.670 set up in Robot Revolution. low -key but still 00:08:20.670 --> 00:08:22.990 effective continuation in looks it would be a 00:08:22.990 --> 00:08:25.050 shame to just kind of go right the friends now 00:08:25.050 --> 00:08:26.550 and they're carrying on as normal and that's 00:08:26.550 --> 00:08:31.389 that um obviously getting a home is part of the 00:08:31.389 --> 00:08:35.350 the series storyline but i still want to see 00:08:35.350 --> 00:08:38.049 the actual characters developing and that kind 00:08:38.049 --> 00:08:40.649 of thing happening yeah and we've only got like 00:08:40.649 --> 00:08:43.690 a limited number of episodes to do that we've 00:08:43.690 --> 00:08:46.700 had two already there's six left and two of those 00:08:46.700 --> 00:08:48.440 are going to be taken up with the finale where 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:50.820 there's probably going to be a lot going on so 00:08:50.820 --> 00:08:55.299 yeah that's one of my hopes that in those four 00:08:55.299 --> 00:08:57.919 episodes in the middle is enough to fit in some 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:02.980 good development with Belinda who like I really 00:09:02.980 --> 00:09:06.440 like how different the relationship is to Ruby's 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:10.179 and it's sort of paralleling Rose and then Martha 00:09:10.179 --> 00:09:16.259 a little bit but I think it's more interesting 00:09:16.259 --> 00:09:18.840 than the relationship between the Tenth Doctor 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:22.220 and Martha, where that was kind of just like 00:09:22.220 --> 00:09:25.620 one note of it being a bit of an imbalanced relationship 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:28.539 and the Doctor actually not treating her particularly 00:09:28.539 --> 00:09:32.240 well because he was just talking about Rose and 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.820 focusing on Rose. We don't have any of that here 00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:42.299 with him going on about Ruby to Belinda. And 00:09:42.299 --> 00:09:44.580 I think... the Belinda and the 15th Doctor's 00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:48.519 relationship has got so many more layers to it, 00:09:48.580 --> 00:09:51.519 which is, like I said last week, one of my favourite 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:54.860 bits of Robot Revolution, that scene at the end. 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:03.460 It's going to be interesting to see how Belinda 00:10:03.460 --> 00:10:06.360 and Ruby and the Doctor kind of, you know, we 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:08.740 know that... all three characters are going to 00:10:08.740 --> 00:10:10.700 be together further on in the season. So it's 00:10:10.700 --> 00:10:12.279 going to be interesting to see how they kind 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:17.279 of mesh, I guess. And I mean, I still don't quite 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:19.480 know what's happening with Ruby. Is she coming 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:23.299 back sort of working for unit now, Mel style 00:10:23.299 --> 00:10:26.019 going to be in a few episodes or is she kind 00:10:26.019 --> 00:10:30.399 of rejoining the TARDIS further along in this 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:34.740 series? Like it's all been a little bit, not 00:10:34.740 --> 00:10:36.820 inconsistent, but it's not been particularly, 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:39.299 Any press releases, that kind of thing, haven't 00:10:39.299 --> 00:10:41.500 been particularly forthcoming. When Belinda was 00:10:41.500 --> 00:10:46.039 first announced, it was very much, we're going 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:48.179 to have two companions in the TARDIS with the 00:10:48.179 --> 00:10:51.960 Doctor, which kind of implies that Ruby's travelling 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:55.799 again. But she's not in the trailer all that 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:58.259 much. And from what I can gather, she does just 00:10:58.259 --> 00:11:01.919 seem to be popping up with Unit. So I don't quite 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:08.230 know where that's going. I mean, given how much 00:11:08.230 --> 00:11:11.950 of a meal was made of them saying goodbye at 00:11:11.950 --> 00:11:15.490 the end of season one, I'd be really surprised 00:11:15.490 --> 00:11:17.950 if she's back travelling full -time for more 00:11:17.950 --> 00:11:21.110 than maybe an episode or two. Maybe what they 00:11:21.110 --> 00:11:26.129 mean is she is there for the finale or the last 00:11:26.129 --> 00:11:28.250 couple of episodes, in the same way that Mel 00:11:28.250 --> 00:11:30.529 was travelling with them at the end of season 00:11:30.529 --> 00:11:33.850 one. Or the same way that Martha came back in. 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:37.480 Series 4. Yeah, Martha is what I assumed the 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.779 model would be. They're popping back and occasionally 00:11:41.779 --> 00:11:43.840 there might be a triple two that they come along 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:48.240 on. I'd say it was just the wording of that press 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.019 release, you know, the Doctor's going to have 00:11:50.019 --> 00:11:52.539 two companions travelling with him in the TARDIS. 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:54.659 And it even said something like, for the first 00:11:54.659 --> 00:11:57.240 ever time, because all the fandom went, what 00:11:57.240 --> 00:12:02.759 are you on about? Like, okay, you know, I'm happy 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:05.730 to... not count Amy and Rory. They're a married 00:12:05.730 --> 00:12:07.450 couple. I suppose if you squint, that doesn't 00:12:07.450 --> 00:12:12.269 count. But we still had two companions in the 00:12:12.269 --> 00:12:15.009 TARDIS for Flux, and we had two companions in 00:12:15.009 --> 00:12:17.250 the TARDIS when Martha came back in Series 4. 00:12:18.909 --> 00:12:26.149 So, yeah, don't know. But if Ruby is sort of 00:12:26.149 --> 00:12:28.409 back travelling with them for the second half 00:12:28.409 --> 00:12:31.649 of the series or whatever, I do hope that... 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.340 that there's still some sort of questioning and 00:12:36.340 --> 00:12:38.700 conflict between the Doctor and Belinda. I hope 00:12:38.700 --> 00:12:40.779 it doesn't just all smooth out because Ruby's 00:12:40.779 --> 00:12:43.059 there now and they're just three best mates kind 00:12:43.059 --> 00:12:46.320 of thing because that's not how Belinda has been 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.679 set up and it wouldn't be fair on the character 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:53.840 to just kind of smooth everything over because 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:59.080 we've got another friend there now as well. I 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:03.700 guess. Yeah. And what the relationship between 00:13:03.700 --> 00:13:07.960 Ruby and Belinda might be like. Yes, that's what 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:09.700 it's worth. Because Ruby was always the sort 00:13:09.700 --> 00:13:12.559 of very enthusiastic, yes, I'd love to travel, 00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:16.419 really enjoying this. I mean, I still don't think 00:13:16.419 --> 00:13:21.639 her sort of exit was properly earned. I don't 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:25.919 think... It's just enough time to like... Because 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:29.899 we had two seasons of Rose when she first left 00:13:29.899 --> 00:13:34.529 and that... had and two long seasons and ruby 00:13:34.529 --> 00:13:39.250 we had like one short season i think that was 00:13:39.250 --> 00:13:41.029 just a major factor like we just didn't have 00:13:41.029 --> 00:13:46.529 enough time to be invested enough to to to care 00:13:46.529 --> 00:13:49.649 when they split apart and and it wasn't like 00:13:49.649 --> 00:13:53.970 them being ripped apart by a dimensional wall 00:13:53.970 --> 00:13:56.990 it was she's spending some time with her family 00:13:56.990 --> 00:13:59.049 it's not like he's never going to see her again 00:13:59.620 --> 00:14:04.379 Yeah, I kind of wish it had ended on a more I'm 00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:05.960 just dropping you off for a bit, I'll see you 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:10.019 later kind of way. Because we knew she was coming 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:11.899 back, we knew she was going to be in this second 00:14:11.899 --> 00:14:15.519 series even at the time. So yeah, I don't know. 00:14:16.179 --> 00:14:20.120 The way it was handled felt a bit funny and I 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:24.879 hope that whatever we're getting with Ruby later 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.559 on in this series is. Just sort of handled it 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:30.500 a little bit better. And, you know, if the end 00:14:30.500 --> 00:14:33.740 of the series is time for Ruby, Belinda, whoever 00:14:33.740 --> 00:14:37.100 to go, I hope it's a proper goodbye and not just 00:14:37.100 --> 00:14:39.259 a, oh, well, we found your mum, mystery solved, 00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:43.159 off you pop. We'll see. We'll see what happens. 00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:48.279 And, of course, Ruby's reappearance could tie 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:51.679 in to Mrs. Flood quite well as well, because 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:55.340 obviously, you know, Ruby knew Mrs. Flood lived. 00:14:56.029 --> 00:14:58.009 Was it next door, a few doors down, whatever 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:02.169 from it, that kind of thing? Yeah, same street. 00:15:02.970 --> 00:15:05.250 Yeah, so there's more to be done there, I think, 00:15:05.269 --> 00:15:10.769 more to be kind of picked up on. So, back to 00:15:10.769 --> 00:15:13.490 looks. This episode, the thing that struck me 00:15:13.490 --> 00:15:17.470 the most was how fantastic it looked. Like, it 00:15:17.470 --> 00:15:20.360 set out from the start to be... a very visual 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.200 episode. It's an episode that deals with the 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:26.500 God of Light from the Pantheon. So we've had 00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:28.740 the God of Music in The Devil's Call, the Maestro, 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:32.879 and that. That was very, very music -focused. 00:15:32.899 --> 00:15:35.240 That was an episode that had to sound great, 00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:40.360 and it did. But we don't necessarily equate how 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:44.529 good an episode sounds with... The cost of that 00:15:44.529 --> 00:15:46.570 episode, the budget of that episode, and the 00:15:46.570 --> 00:15:48.490 one thing that I've seen mentioned a lot about 00:15:48.490 --> 00:15:51.230 looks is it finally feels like we're seeing that 00:15:51.230 --> 00:15:54.409 Disney money on the screen. And it certainly 00:15:54.409 --> 00:15:58.210 can't have been a cheap episode to produce. Not 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:02.389 only do we have to recreate the 1950s, and it 00:16:02.389 --> 00:16:07.090 looked good. It looked very, very good. You know, 00:16:07.129 --> 00:16:10.779 definitely. sort of in the vein of Back to the 00:16:10.779 --> 00:16:12.659 Future and that kind of thing, recreating that 00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:14.759 era. They did a good job. It was believable. 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:19.799 But we've also got this sort of very visually 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:27.539 impressive villain. I believe that Lux was actually 00:16:27.539 --> 00:16:35.620 animated, like hand -drawn, if what I've sort 00:16:35.620 --> 00:16:39.169 of read briefly on Instagram. It's true, if I've 00:16:39.169 --> 00:16:42.090 interpreted it correctly, they've sort of traditionally 00:16:42.090 --> 00:16:44.710 animated it and it's not just another CGI creation, 00:16:44.950 --> 00:16:48.129 which is brilliant, it's just what you'd want. 00:16:49.009 --> 00:16:51.529 But we also had this fantastic sequence of the 00:16:51.529 --> 00:16:53.850 Doctor and Belinda being animated and we had 00:16:53.850 --> 00:16:56.549 sort of all the great stuff of them breaking 00:16:56.549 --> 00:17:00.750 through the screen. Yeah, it was a very visually 00:17:00.750 --> 00:17:05.009 impressive episode and I think it... I'm not 00:17:05.009 --> 00:17:07.329 sure it is fair to say this is the first time... 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.019 that Disney money is believably being visible 00:17:10.019 --> 00:17:11.900 on the screen. I think maybe it's the best it's 00:17:11.900 --> 00:17:17.140 been showed off. Yeah, it's just sort of an interesting 00:17:17.140 --> 00:17:19.660 point. Is there anything you want to sort of 00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:22.019 add to that at all? I mean, I agree it looked 00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:26.019 really good, but I felt like there were, like 00:17:26.019 --> 00:17:28.859 right from the Star Beast, I think there's been 00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:34.680 like just impressive visuals and like... really 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:40.259 careful blending of physical and um cgi effects 00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:42.720 with like doing as much as i can practically 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:47.819 and then enhancing it and um yeah so star beast 00:17:47.819 --> 00:17:53.400 um what else like the church on ruby rose like 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:58.180 this there's yeah it didn't strike me like oh 00:17:58.180 --> 00:18:01.019 this is the first time you're seeing that you 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:05.130 know that disney money um but that it did stand 00:18:05.130 --> 00:18:07.769 out in terms of like just creatively what they 00:18:07.769 --> 00:18:09.690 were doing in this episode and the attention 00:18:09.690 --> 00:18:12.869 to detail again with the adding like little bits 00:18:12.869 --> 00:18:18.829 of grain to to mr reading and like the yeah just 00:18:18.829 --> 00:18:22.089 the the animation of that main character i think 00:18:22.089 --> 00:18:28.089 was really really good um and well i think the 00:18:28.089 --> 00:18:30.730 animation and also the vocal performance are 00:18:30.730 --> 00:18:33.740 the things that that made that work for me with 00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:38.440 Alan Cummings. This whole Disney money needs 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:41.700 to appear on screen thing from day one has kind 00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:45.319 of, I mean, I've not quite got it because at 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:47.880 the end of the day, yeah, you know, on Disney 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:51.720 +, there are some very, very visually fantastic 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:55.400 and impressive series. You know, it cannot be 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:59.029 denied that. A lot of the Marvel stuff looks 00:18:59.029 --> 00:19:01.289 very good. A lot of the Star Wars stuff looks 00:19:01.289 --> 00:19:06.670 absolutely fantastic. But I think people are 00:19:06.670 --> 00:19:10.269 underestimating how much it actually takes to 00:19:10.269 --> 00:19:14.990 produce something that looks all right on screen 00:19:14.990 --> 00:19:19.809 now. I've seen sort of calls for, oh, Doctor 00:19:19.809 --> 00:19:24.880 Who needs to go back to its low budget. It's 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:27.519 like, well, TV's not made like that anymore. 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:33.920 There's no modern equivalent to making something 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.660 look good on a shoestring like, I don't know, 00:19:36.740 --> 00:19:39.559 Planet of Evil or Talons or something like that. 00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:43.539 That just doesn't exist anymore. It's not a thing. 00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:49.359 And we don't need... Go on. I was just going 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:53.529 to say, it's sort of sitting... In the middle, 00:19:53.589 --> 00:19:56.650 you have these things like Star Wars and Marvel, 00:19:56.829 --> 00:19:59.789 and if my understanding is right, Doctor Who's 00:19:59.789 --> 00:20:03.930 budget is nowhere near those big franchises. 00:20:04.430 --> 00:20:10.089 So they are still relative to those biggest things 00:20:10.089 --> 00:20:17.069 that are out there, like getting less money, 00:20:17.170 --> 00:20:18.849 and they are still having to think about how 00:20:18.849 --> 00:20:20.869 to do things creatively and make the most of 00:20:20.869 --> 00:20:25.119 what they have. Yeah, absolutely. That's it, 00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:28.059 though. Disney isn't just handing out the same 00:20:28.059 --> 00:20:30.779 amount of money to absolutely everything it produces. 00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:38.059 It's a well -known fact that Doctor Who has consistently 00:20:38.059 --> 00:20:41.539 made more money than anything else for the BBC 00:20:41.539 --> 00:20:44.640 pretty much since it came back. I can't think 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:46.299 of anything off the top of my head that's ever 00:20:46.299 --> 00:20:51.839 properly rivaled it in terms of revenue. you 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.700 know maybe maybe top gear when clarks and hammond 00:20:55.700 --> 00:20:57.599 and may were still on it that kind of thing but 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:02.799 like you know strictly come dancing eastenders 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:05.779 top gear there's not going to be the amount of 00:21:05.779 --> 00:21:09.059 well maybe top gear has the international audience 00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:11.980 but you're not going to have as many like you 00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:16.099 know books dvds toys connected to those shows 00:21:16.099 --> 00:21:20.480 strictly has the stage shows i guess or the tours 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:23.660 and that kind of thing. I don't know. But Doctor 00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:26.160 Who's in a very unique position where it's very, 00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:30.500 very marketable. Every week there is something 00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:33.160 new that you can create merchandise from. I've 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:35.980 just seen, literally before starting to record 00:21:35.980 --> 00:21:42.319 this podcast, a Mr. Dingling pin badge. And we're 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:44.460 recording this on Monday. The episode first went 00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:48.630 out on Saturday. And it's not taken long for 00:21:48.630 --> 00:21:52.349 that to be available for pre -order. So there's 00:21:52.349 --> 00:21:55.750 the merchandise with Doctor Who's just insane. 00:21:56.130 --> 00:21:59.750 You know, look at some of the figures and sets 00:21:59.750 --> 00:22:01.750 and that kind of thing that we've had. Like personally, 00:22:01.809 --> 00:22:05.430 I don't really go for them, collect them. But 00:22:05.430 --> 00:22:10.089 like you can get a Vord action figure, which 00:22:10.089 --> 00:22:15.630 I still find completely insane. Having said that, 00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:19.130 there's something I've heard today, which is 00:22:19.130 --> 00:22:22.650 for the next year, there's very little that's 00:22:22.650 --> 00:22:24.910 been announced in terms of upcoming merchandise, 00:22:24.910 --> 00:22:29.430 like even less than last few years, which might 00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:35.450 be, again, part of that sort of theory that there 00:22:35.450 --> 00:22:38.170 is going to be a gap, or a bit of a lull at least. 00:22:40.210 --> 00:22:44.299 But the merchandise carried on. in the wilderness 00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:49.019 years. We had regular book ranges. We had audios 00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:50.859 towards the end of it. Big Finish isn't going 00:22:50.859 --> 00:22:52.799 anywhere. We know they've got the license for 00:22:52.799 --> 00:23:00.359 another five years. Yeah, I don't know. Doctor 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:04.299 Who does seem to make a lot of money, and it's 00:23:04.299 --> 00:23:07.680 still got to work within reason, though. It doesn't 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:12.640 make as much money as the MCU or Star Wars. and 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:14.319 therefore it's not going to have that level of 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:20.380 money sunk into it. I do think that we couldn't 00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:26.200 have had looks done as well previously in any 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:28.539 other era. Maybe that's the sign of the Disney 00:23:28.539 --> 00:23:31.640 money on screen. I don't know. But, like, can 00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:34.180 you imagine them trying to produce looks in, 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:38.200 I don't know, David Tennant's first? I think 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:40.259 the animation is... Anything like that. I can 00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:43.339 see, like... Because there were period stories, 00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:45.420 I could see a version of it, but I think it's 00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:48.859 the animation that would be the weakest link 00:23:48.859 --> 00:23:52.420 if it was done in previous eras. I'm thinking 00:23:52.420 --> 00:23:56.539 something like the Lazarus experiment, for example. 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.839 That's not an episode that's aged particularly 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:06.779 well. Nearly 20 years later, or 18 years later, 00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:11.039 it doesn't look particularly amazing. Whereas 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:15.700 I think this will still look good in 15, 20 years' 00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:21.779 time. Which will be interesting to see. I think 00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:25.539 it will. Although, like Lazarus, I think Doctor 00:24:25.539 --> 00:24:28.099 Who, even going back into the classic series, 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:32.220 has always been good with the setting for period 00:24:32.220 --> 00:24:36.180 stories, like costumes and sets and things. With 00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:38.279 the Lazarus experiment, it's when you have that 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.970 monster on top of it that can be more challenging 00:24:41.970 --> 00:24:46.930 to get right. I think that monster is just, it's 00:24:46.930 --> 00:24:50.049 there with the giant rat from Talons or the magma 00:24:50.049 --> 00:24:54.130 beast or, you know, anything else that always 00:24:54.130 --> 00:24:56.890 gets wheeled out as wide as Doctor Who look dreadful. 00:24:57.509 --> 00:25:04.150 I mean, it's not quite Mirka bad, but, you know, 00:25:04.210 --> 00:25:07.730 we're judging a 20 -year -old piece of CGI that 00:25:07.730 --> 00:25:10.720 did not have. this amount of cash spent on it, 00:25:10.779 --> 00:25:16.160 whereas Mr. Engeling did look fantastic. So it's, 00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:19.359 yeah, it works. I like it. I'd like sort of the 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:24.019 fact that, you know, we are, Doctor Who is achieving 00:25:24.019 --> 00:25:27.559 things visually that it hasn't been able to before, 00:25:27.700 --> 00:25:30.700 but I think it's doing it at a level that it 00:25:30.700 --> 00:25:33.119 can do and a level that it can sustain. I don't 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:37.019 think it's going to fly off into. looking like 00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:39.799 Star Wars anytime soon and nor should it either. 00:25:40.180 --> 00:25:43.160 Well the main thing is it's doing it it's making 00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:46.640 the most of what it has but still having some 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:51.000 weirdness and creativity it's not just like creating 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.480 the spectacle for the sake of it it's serving 00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:56.000 the story and it's doing it in interesting ways 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.460 with an interesting performance behind it. Yeah 00:26:00.460 --> 00:26:04.059 and it's lots of things made looks work well. 00:26:04.829 --> 00:26:08.910 I think that just because of the concept and 00:26:08.910 --> 00:26:10.710 because of the idea, it had to be an episode 00:26:10.710 --> 00:26:13.690 that looked good just to start with. And it did 00:26:13.690 --> 00:26:16.589 that. And just the fact that we had such a great 00:26:16.589 --> 00:26:18.750 performance from Alan Cumming, the fact that 00:26:18.750 --> 00:26:20.930 the Doctor and Belinda are such a brilliant team, 00:26:21.109 --> 00:26:25.289 the fact that it was able to push sort of crazy 00:26:25.289 --> 00:26:28.569 concepts like the Doctor and Belinda stepping 00:26:28.569 --> 00:26:31.109 out of a TV screen and meeting some Doctor Who 00:26:31.109 --> 00:26:34.049 fans who were... you know, wearing the Telos 00:26:34.049 --> 00:26:36.250 t -shirt and a scarf and all that sort of thing. 00:26:37.329 --> 00:26:41.130 I think it was a really great way to just explore 00:26:41.130 --> 00:26:44.869 some of this sort of slightly bizarre meta stuff 00:26:44.869 --> 00:26:47.589 that, you know, has been part of the conversation 00:26:47.589 --> 00:26:49.529 for quite a while. You know, I know that this 00:26:49.529 --> 00:26:51.650 podcast we've discussed sort of the concept of 00:26:51.650 --> 00:26:56.089 Doctor Who as a TV programme in universe. I know 00:26:56.089 --> 00:26:58.250 that that's a theory that Mark's sort of championing 00:26:58.250 --> 00:27:02.440 quite a bit. we were obviously sort of bending 00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:05.200 reality and we have things like the Toymaker 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:09.839 and other Pantheon characters. And yeah, it just, 00:27:10.019 --> 00:27:12.559 we're able to explore concepts that Doctor Who 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:15.779 hasn't really explored before. And that's, that's 00:27:15.779 --> 00:27:18.500 good. And if that's a budget thing, then fantastic. 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:20.680 You know, let's, let's see what we can do that 00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:24.579 we couldn't previously with that. But also if 00:27:24.579 --> 00:27:26.779 it is just an ideas and concept thing, then let's 00:27:26.779 --> 00:27:28.700 keep playing with that as well. do it the best 00:27:28.700 --> 00:27:31.140 we can. It seems to be doing quite well at this 00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:39.839 point. So Lux was a Pantheon character, so we've 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:44.059 had quite a bit of the Pantheon now. Toymaker, 00:27:44.380 --> 00:27:53.079 Zootac, Maestro, and so on. I do wonder, are... 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:56.480 are we still sort of aiming for Pantheon characters 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:01.819 to be a big bad? Is there some kind of big leader 00:28:01.819 --> 00:28:04.279 behind the Pantheon, you know, a god of gods 00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:08.619 type thing? Is this going somewhere, or are we 00:28:08.619 --> 00:28:11.660 just going to use it as an excuse to get a load 00:28:11.660 --> 00:28:17.319 of reality -bending type characters in? I think 00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:21.680 it has to be. Yeah, I don't know. It sort of 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:23.640 doesn't quite feel like it's particularly going 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:25.960 anywhere, and it feels like, as a concept, it's 00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:28.220 getting a bit cheaper every time it's used now, 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:32.559 because, you know, the Toymaker was a really, 00:28:32.619 --> 00:28:35.319 really good choice of villain for the giggle. 00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:38.359 You know, we've known the Toymaker since Early 00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:40.720 Doctor, who was this sort of big, powerful, omnipotent, 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:45.559 reality -bending character. And, you know, the 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.119 Doctor had to beat the Toymaker at his own game. 00:28:50.029 --> 00:28:52.589 as has always been established. But now we just 00:28:52.589 --> 00:28:55.309 seem to have lots of characters that can do weird, 00:28:55.390 --> 00:28:58.109 visually impressive things, but then be beaten 00:28:58.109 --> 00:28:59.829 at their own game because there's this set of 00:28:59.829 --> 00:29:04.869 rules. And ultimately, it's always going to sort 00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:09.690 of end the same way. I like the idea of the Doctors 00:29:09.690 --> 00:29:13.390 battling slightly higher -level villains than 00:29:13.390 --> 00:29:18.490 usual, but also it's slightly higher -level villains 00:29:18.490 --> 00:29:21.390 than usual that... do seem to be getting defeated 00:29:21.390 --> 00:29:28.849 sort of easily. So, yeah, I just... I'm hoping 00:29:28.849 --> 00:29:31.250 this Pantheon thing doesn't drag on for too long 00:29:31.250 --> 00:29:33.849 because it's going to get fairly, save me fairly 00:29:33.849 --> 00:29:35.970 quickly, I think. I'm enjoying it, don't get 00:29:35.970 --> 00:29:39.250 me wrong, but I think it has a sell -by date. 00:29:39.970 --> 00:29:44.450 That's the danger of having, like, threats that 00:29:44.450 --> 00:29:48.009 are built up so much and then... having to resolve 00:29:48.009 --> 00:29:50.670 that in 45 minutes and even in the two -part 00:29:50.670 --> 00:29:55.829 finale last year um it's going to have to be 00:29:55.829 --> 00:29:59.769 wrapped up in what risks seeming like too easy 00:29:59.769 --> 00:30:03.410 in a way like this week i liked the resolution 00:30:03.410 --> 00:30:08.890 and the way it all played out but um to an extent 00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:14.730 the doctor and blender didn't do loads to because 00:30:15.390 --> 00:30:19.269 If I'm following it right, Lux chose to go out 00:30:19.269 --> 00:30:23.769 into the open and that's what defeated them, 00:30:23.809 --> 00:30:26.910 just being absorbed into the universe. So maybe 00:30:26.910 --> 00:30:29.529 the Doctor and Belinda hurried that process along 00:30:29.529 --> 00:30:35.109 by giving him the regeneration energy and letting 00:30:35.109 --> 00:30:39.369 him out. But I could see that playing out without 00:30:39.369 --> 00:30:42.930 them turning up, like Lux eventually finds his 00:30:42.930 --> 00:30:45.279 way out of the cinema somehow. some other way 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:50.599 and um and the same thing happens um but yeah 00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:53.920 it is a danger like the the talking about like 00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:56.240 the wilderness years books and the new adventures 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.920 did a lot of stuff with gods and things like 00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:03.200 that what i liked about that and what which is 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:05.500 like a lot easier to do when you've got the space 00:31:05.500 --> 00:31:09.980 of a series of like you know 50 60 novels um 00:31:09.980 --> 00:31:14.289 there were major consequences for for the Doctor, 00:31:14.470 --> 00:31:20.569 like moral compromises he had to make, losses 00:31:20.569 --> 00:31:25.970 that he had that were kind of the result of deals 00:31:25.970 --> 00:31:30.930 made with cosmic entities. So maybe that's the 00:31:30.930 --> 00:31:33.849 thing, like however things get wrapped up at 00:31:33.849 --> 00:31:37.170 the end of this season, for there to be some 00:31:37.170 --> 00:31:41.049 consequence or some impact so it's not just all 00:31:41.049 --> 00:31:48.119 done and forgotten about. Yeah, and the Doctor 00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:50.240 does seem to be sort of bumping off a god every 00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:55.539 three weeks at the moment, and it feels fairly 00:31:55.539 --> 00:31:59.579 consequence -free. I'm aware that the pantheon 00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:01.140 and all of these godlike characters appearing 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:03.500 is a consequence of something the Doctor did 00:32:03.500 --> 00:32:06.720 in Wild Blue Yonder, or at least is hinted to 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:13.319 be. But what actually are the consequences? Because... 00:32:14.859 --> 00:32:17.880 Well, more or less, everybody lived. I know the 00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:20.079 caretaker didn't in looks, but more or less everybody 00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:24.619 lived. You know, the giggle didn't have a high 00:32:24.619 --> 00:32:27.480 body count. Everybody more or less lived in. 00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:32.619 The Sutec two -parter. And I think the only real 00:32:32.619 --> 00:32:35.420 victim of the maestro was June Hudson. So it's 00:32:35.420 --> 00:32:43.180 kind of... These don't feel like big... end -of 00:32:43.180 --> 00:32:45.920 -the -universe shattering threats, and they should 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:49.140 do. It doesn't have to be a physical cost, because 00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:52.920 he wasn't fighting gods, but the way the Tenth 00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:55.799 Doctor ended up, there was the whole thing about 00:32:55.799 --> 00:33:00.579 the timeline of Victorious and the impact on 00:33:00.579 --> 00:33:04.099 his character of going too far and hubris and 00:33:04.099 --> 00:33:07.380 all of that, and there was the death in Waters 00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:11.619 of Mars, which was really impactful. But there 00:33:11.619 --> 00:33:15.740 was an arc and an impact from his actions, even 00:33:15.740 --> 00:33:19.940 though he was winning and beating those monsters 00:33:19.940 --> 00:33:23.880 in individual episodes. So that would be something 00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:28.740 that it impacts on the Doctor or someone else 00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:34.440 in some really significant way. I think it would 00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:38.500 perhaps help to have a Pantheon -focused episode. 00:33:39.450 --> 00:33:46.670 not on Earth. I know part of the storyline here 00:33:46.670 --> 00:33:48.549 is that Earth has been destroyed, or at least 00:33:48.549 --> 00:33:53.670 has hinted to have been, but that's not going 00:33:53.670 --> 00:33:56.289 to be a Doctor Who permadeath, is it? That's 00:33:56.289 --> 00:33:58.430 never going to stick. We've had the Earth be 00:33:58.430 --> 00:34:01.569 destroyed and come back quite a few times in 00:34:01.569 --> 00:34:04.789 Doctor Who in the past. Whereas I would quite 00:34:04.789 --> 00:34:10.480 like to see one of these godlike pantheon characters 00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:14.719 actually have some kind of apocalyptic effect 00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:18.940 you know let's let's have them wipe out alien 00:34:18.940 --> 00:34:22.420 planet number 745 or whatever let's actually 00:34:22.420 --> 00:34:26.159 see the real damage that these characters can 00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:29.239 do because everything that we've seen them do 00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:33.679 so far more or less has been reversible on defeat 00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:39.219 and defeat has come fairly easily for all of 00:34:39.219 --> 00:34:45.480 them um so yeah i kind of want to see the actual 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:47.880 impact of these characters i want to see i know 00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:51.099 we've seen what would happen to earth if they 00:34:51.099 --> 00:34:53.739 just left the maestro to it for 30 years or whatever 00:34:53.739 --> 00:34:59.000 but that's that's not it's still not hammering 00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.199 home what these characters are capable of and 00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.690 i think to up the threat let's see them I don't 00:35:04.690 --> 00:35:06.869 know, Decimator, Androzani or something like 00:35:06.869 --> 00:35:08.750 that. You get the idea. Something that isn't 00:35:08.750 --> 00:35:10.269 going to be reversed, something that's going 00:35:10.269 --> 00:35:12.929 to stick. Well, that was quite a big contrast 00:35:12.929 --> 00:35:16.789 with, like, we were talking about Marvel earlier, 00:35:16.829 --> 00:35:20.789 right? So in that CTEK two -party, you have everyone, 00:35:20.889 --> 00:35:26.190 like, dusted in a very similar way to half the 00:35:26.190 --> 00:35:30.409 population are in Marvel's Infinity War. And, 00:35:30.409 --> 00:35:34.699 yes, those people come back in... the next Marvel 00:35:34.699 --> 00:35:37.880 movie, but it's not consequence -free. Those 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:41.000 people who had gone away had lost five years, 00:35:41.260 --> 00:35:44.980 and it's picked up to varying degrees in the 00:35:44.980 --> 00:35:48.500 shows and movies that come on after that. Whereas 00:35:48.500 --> 00:35:52.420 in the Doctor Who finale last year, there are 00:35:52.420 --> 00:35:55.780 far fewer consequences or impacts. It's all just 00:35:55.780 --> 00:36:00.340 like reset, pretty much back to normal. So little 00:36:00.340 --> 00:36:03.440 things like that. And I know that that then has 00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:05.440 that impact on future storytelling because you 00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:08.920 have to remember those world -changing events 00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:12.980 that you set up. And Doctor Who kind of keeps 00:36:12.980 --> 00:36:14.739 going through patterns of rolling those things 00:36:14.739 --> 00:36:19.760 back to reset back to normal. Is it season five 00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.280 or season six where the cracks were used as an 00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:26.059 explanation as to why people didn't remember 00:36:26.059 --> 00:36:29.659 the Daleks or the Cybermen? bits like that Doctor 00:36:29.659 --> 00:36:32.539 Who doesn't seem to want to change the status 00:36:32.539 --> 00:36:37.440 quo of the real world which I guess is understandable 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:39.260 but I think it would be interesting if they did 00:36:39.260 --> 00:36:43.000 play with that a bit more I think the other thing 00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:46.860 about Doctor Who is there's no there's no bible 00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:53.840 and there's no established what is canon type 00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:58.980 thing And therefore, you know, we can have... 00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:02.500 I mean, how many times has Gallifrey been destroyed 00:37:02.500 --> 00:37:07.500 in the expanded universe? You know, it's got 00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:10.059 to be on TV. Is that two or three times? Well, 00:37:10.059 --> 00:37:13.579 TV's been a couple of times. I was reading something 00:37:13.579 --> 00:37:16.460 earlier, actually, that sort of said, like, this 00:37:16.460 --> 00:37:19.280 time round, it's difficult to believe that the 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.380 Doctor's the last Time Lord. Like, was nobody 00:37:22.380 --> 00:37:27.519 not on Gallifrey when... when it was destroyed 00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:31.559 by the Master. Because Rassilon was sent off 00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:34.460 in hell -bent and all that. We have seen Time 00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:37.659 Lords leave Gallifrey. Doesn't he talk about 00:37:37.659 --> 00:37:42.320 Susan in ambiguous terms as well? I'm trying 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.440 to think back to last year. When he mentions 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.340 her fleetingly, it's like he's unsure of where 00:37:49.340 --> 00:37:52.340 she is, not that she was back on Gallifrey and 00:37:52.340 --> 00:37:58.420 she died. Yeah. And there just doesn't seem to 00:37:58.420 --> 00:38:02.119 be any level of consistency to that. I mean, 00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:05.199 there's no consistency as to whether Gallifrey's 00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:08.059 destroyed or not, really, when you take the last 00:38:08.059 --> 00:38:13.460 20 years into account. But, yeah, I don't buy 00:38:13.460 --> 00:38:15.699 that every single Time Lord was on Gallifrey 00:38:15.699 --> 00:38:21.980 when the Master did what he did. The whole last 00:38:21.980 --> 00:38:24.539 Time Lord thing just doesn't quite feel as... 00:38:25.610 --> 00:38:30.909 as solid this time as it did when the Time War 00:38:30.909 --> 00:38:34.849 was what had destroyed it up to... I wonder if, 00:38:34.949 --> 00:38:36.449 you know, saying, like, it's a resolution going 00:38:36.449 --> 00:38:39.389 to be focused on the pantheon, the gods, I wonder 00:38:39.389 --> 00:38:43.869 if it's going to be bringing together things 00:38:43.869 --> 00:38:49.210 like Gallifrey, Susan, and this god stuff, like, 00:38:49.250 --> 00:38:52.449 you know, maybe the ultimate villain is some 00:38:52.449 --> 00:38:56.500 Time Lord god or gods. And maybe the real pantheon 00:38:56.500 --> 00:39:00.539 was the friends we made along the way. There's 00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:05.800 so many little things, like the mentions of Susan, 00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:08.619 and we might get to the end of season two and 00:39:08.619 --> 00:39:12.300 go, okay, we've just been mentioning her a few 00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:14.440 times. But it feels like some of these things 00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:18.760 are set up or being mentioned just a couple of 00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:25.260 times too many to just be random lines. Yeah, 00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:30.159 the sort of rug pull with it not being Susan 00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:32.840 last series was a bit strange after how much 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:37.860 it had been signposted. It feels like that's 00:39:37.860 --> 00:39:40.780 something that needs to be continued and so far 00:39:40.780 --> 00:39:45.400 it's not really been, but we'll see. Again, this 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:47.519 is ongoing. We are dealing with something that 00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.940 is very bit clearly being set up as a multi -series 00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:53.820 arc. This is at least a two -series arc and we 00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:57.389 are. at the start of the second series still 00:39:57.389 --> 00:39:59.510 we're a quarter of the way into the second series 00:39:59.510 --> 00:40:02.010 when you consider the the episode can but you 00:40:02.010 --> 00:40:04.329 get my point yeah there's a fair bit left so 00:40:04.329 --> 00:40:07.750 i kind of am interested or excited about like 00:40:07.750 --> 00:40:10.449 these big concepts coming in at the end but then 00:40:10.449 --> 00:40:12.769 what we were saying earlier i don't want that 00:40:12.769 --> 00:40:16.150 to be to the detriment of just having like a 00:40:16.150 --> 00:40:19.650 solid character arc for belinda and her story 00:40:19.650 --> 00:40:22.719 and just telling something more self -contained. 00:40:22.780 --> 00:40:24.659 I think that should be the priority. And then 00:40:24.659 --> 00:40:28.099 gods and universe ending events should be the 00:40:28.099 --> 00:40:33.719 sort of window dressing around that. Yeah, agreed. 00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:37.360 It should all be pieces that make up the puzzle 00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:40.820 and we shouldn't make just one piece bigger because 00:40:40.820 --> 00:40:42.420 it's the last week of the series or whatever. 00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:47.960 Yeah. Okay, other sort of big point from this 00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:51.429 episode then was the, the kind of breaking of 00:40:51.429 --> 00:40:54.030 the fourth wall, the Doctor and Belinda crawling 00:40:54.030 --> 00:41:01.469 out of a TV and meeting three overly stereotypical 00:41:01.469 --> 00:41:04.789 Doctor Who fans, like I say, Scarf to watch the 00:41:04.789 --> 00:41:07.829 series and Telos T -shirt and all that kind of 00:41:07.829 --> 00:41:13.250 thing. And I liked this sequence. I thought this 00:41:13.250 --> 00:41:17.400 sequence worked well for a minute or two. it 00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:20.840 just felt like it went on a little bit too much. 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:25.579 Like, it was a nice little cutaway gag, but it 00:41:25.579 --> 00:41:28.500 then outstayed its welcome. And, you know, three, 00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:32.119 four, five minutes after meeting these characters, 00:41:32.300 --> 00:41:33.940 we get, oh, they're not real and they're going 00:41:33.940 --> 00:41:38.880 to die, and sort of the Doctor trying to force 00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:42.119 the message to us of us at home that it's all 00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:44.980 very sad and these people are an inadvertent 00:41:44.980 --> 00:41:48.429 creation of... everything that's been going on 00:41:48.429 --> 00:41:51.550 and uh and then of course at the end it turns 00:41:51.550 --> 00:41:54.469 out that they they were still there and still 00:41:54.469 --> 00:41:59.349 aware and um it was all a bit strange and again 00:41:59.349 --> 00:42:03.230 feels like it it's another piece in a puzzle 00:42:03.230 --> 00:42:07.289 it feels like it's going somewhere um i think 00:42:07.289 --> 00:42:09.349 it would have worked as a standalone joke had 00:42:09.349 --> 00:42:11.210 it just sort of gone on for two minutes stopped 00:42:11.210 --> 00:42:15.320 and gone away but the whole about the actual 00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:17.179 existence of these characters and that kind of 00:42:17.179 --> 00:42:20.980 thing muddied things a little bit. I did like 00:42:20.980 --> 00:42:22.619 the references. I liked the fact that they all 00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:24.400 thought blink was the best thing ever and the 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:25.900 Doctor kind of turning around going, yeah, but 00:42:25.900 --> 00:42:27.420 what about the one with the goblins or the one 00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:29.119 where it was on the landmine? That was good and 00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.239 that was fun. That was a laugh and, you know, 00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:35.460 nice, nice nod to blink, which is still beloved. 00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.139 But yeah, I thought it was quite a good little 00:42:40.139 --> 00:42:42.179 sequence. I thought it was okay. I just thought 00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:45.380 it outstayed its welcome. But the fact it outstays 00:42:45.380 --> 00:42:47.920 its welcome makes me think that maybe there's 00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:50.980 more to it and that we may get a bit more out 00:42:50.980 --> 00:42:54.380 of it, particularly with a series finale title 00:42:54.380 --> 00:42:57.760 like The Reality War. Yeah, I think that's something 00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:03.000 there. I was just thinking back to other times 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:07.380 the show is done on TV. There's loads more in 00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:10.280 the extended universe, but on TV, there's stand 00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:13.880 -ins for fans. And it's never been quite as directly 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:18.820 meta as this week. But there's stuff in Greatest 00:43:18.820 --> 00:43:22.860 Show in the Galaxy with Wizkid. And then I think 00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:24.579 also like Love and Monsters, like that whole 00:43:24.579 --> 00:43:30.960 group of people in Linda. Well, there's a lot 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:33.219 going on about stand -ins for fans with the Absorber 00:43:33.219 --> 00:43:38.809 off as well. There's them as well that are kind 00:43:38.809 --> 00:43:41.389 of interested in the Doctor, looking for the 00:43:41.389 --> 00:43:47.789 Doctor. For me, the three characters in Lux sort 00:43:47.789 --> 00:43:52.110 of fit in between in terms of how much I liked 00:43:52.110 --> 00:43:55.889 how they were done. The top for me is Love and 00:43:55.889 --> 00:43:59.889 Monsters and Elton Pope and everyone in Linda. 00:44:00.070 --> 00:44:05.309 I think that's the most fun, interesting, engaging. 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.679 example of like building a whole episode around 00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:14.659 that concept of fans of the doctor um but yeah 00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:17.500 i thought it was all right i've heard a lot about 00:44:17.500 --> 00:44:19.880 the outstanding the welcome thing and i can sort 00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:22.039 of see that that the biggest thing for me was 00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:27.300 the the the music and um that other people have 00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:30.039 said and i completely agree that it almost felt 00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:34.559 like parody like how how loud the music was getting 00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.480 at the end. And it was really nice music and 00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:39.900 calling back to some of the best themes from 00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:43.000 previous seasons, which makes a lot of sense, 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.599 again, with the whole meta nature of the scene. 00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:51.800 But it was so loud that it was like really sledgehammering 00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:55.619 home the message and the genuine emotion that 00:44:55.619 --> 00:44:58.059 they wanted to get across. And I thought, yeah, 00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:00.920 the mix could have just been taken down a little 00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:02.420 bit or there could have just been like a little 00:45:02.420 --> 00:45:07.280 less music. But yeah, the scene itself worked 00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:11.039 for me. And I do agree with you that that end 00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:14.760 credits bit and combined with episode titles 00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:18.739 and the things that Mrs. Flood is dropping, it 00:45:18.739 --> 00:45:21.800 all makes me think that there is something that 00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:25.480 we're going to come back to with the land of 00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:28.860 fiction or the god of stories or something going 00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:33.219 on around reality. The walls of reality breaking 00:45:33.219 --> 00:45:36.440 down. I'm not sure exactly what, but something. 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:42.940 I'd be very surprised if it doesn't link to Mrs. 00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:45.300 Flood breaking the fourth wall and that kind 00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:50.039 of thing. Let's address this then. So obviously 00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:55.139 there's rumours, various news outlets and all 00:45:55.139 --> 00:45:57.019 this kind of thing about the show being cancelled. 00:45:57.079 --> 00:45:59.730 Doctor Who's been cancelled. This is the last 00:45:59.730 --> 00:46:01.449 ever series. We're getting this in a spin -off, 00:46:01.469 --> 00:46:04.849 and then that's it, done. And I've thought all 00:46:04.849 --> 00:46:08.570 along, this just sounds like something Russell 00:46:08.570 --> 00:46:12.170 T. Davis is keeping fairly quiet about, sort 00:46:12.170 --> 00:46:15.610 of fueling ever so slightly, just to get Doctor 00:46:15.610 --> 00:46:17.409 Who in the press. Like, it's free advertising, 00:46:17.710 --> 00:46:19.150 isn't it? You know, Doctor Who might be being 00:46:19.150 --> 00:46:22.929 cancelled. It's definitely... It's going to get 00:46:22.929 --> 00:46:26.929 newspapers talking about it, and if you sort 00:46:26.929 --> 00:46:30.639 of... You know, subscribe to the belief that 00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:34.440 somebody talking about you is a good thing regardless 00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:36.920 of what they're saying. So I've thought about 00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:39.800 this all along. But now the series seems to directly 00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:43.460 be addressing the concept of its own cancellation, 00:46:43.539 --> 00:46:45.519 which makes me just think the whole thing is 00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:49.219 bobbins and it's all sort of very meta, handling 00:46:49.219 --> 00:46:51.619 the press, that kind of thing. And if that's 00:46:51.619 --> 00:46:53.659 the case, I really, really like it. And it does 00:46:53.659 --> 00:46:56.719 play into the whole concept of reality wars. 00:46:57.860 --> 00:47:00.079 Doctor Who fans meeting the Doctor in episode 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:03.940 and Mrs. Flood breaking the fourth wall. It all 00:47:03.940 --> 00:47:07.659 seems to be sort of very, very linked. And if 00:47:07.659 --> 00:47:10.659 this is what's going on, it's very, very clever. 00:47:10.860 --> 00:47:15.559 You know, I do like the idea of let's drop rumours 00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.659 of Doctor Who being cancelled so that the Mirror 00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:22.659 and the Sun or whatever report it. And actually 00:47:22.659 --> 00:47:26.840 it's all just an in -universe. meta -y type storyline 00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:30.780 thing that's been going on anyway. Or maybe I'm 00:47:30.780 --> 00:47:32.639 just being really, really optimistic that Doctor 00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:35.860 Who is not being cancelled. I don't know. It 00:47:35.860 --> 00:47:41.739 could be some combination. Like maybe Russell 00:47:41.739 --> 00:47:44.300 T. Davis always knew that there would be a pause 00:47:44.300 --> 00:47:47.900 and that's just how the deal would work in terms 00:47:47.900 --> 00:47:51.500 of recommissioning. And it's just making a virtue 00:47:51.500 --> 00:47:57.019 of that. Maybe it is still uncertain, but he's 00:47:57.019 --> 00:48:00.219 playing off of that and weaving it into the actual 00:48:00.219 --> 00:48:05.659 story of the show. Yeah, it could be either. 00:48:05.780 --> 00:48:09.320 And like you said, Doctor Who has done this sort 00:48:09.320 --> 00:48:11.980 of thing before. Love and Monsters and certainly 00:48:11.980 --> 00:48:15.119 the greatest show in the galaxy. I'll forever 00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:17.320 question the decision to have Wizkid wandering 00:48:17.320 --> 00:48:19.300 around going, oh, it's not as good as it used 00:48:19.300 --> 00:48:26.039 to be. Yeah, that's a bit of an own goal, that 00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:32.480 is. But, yeah, it's obviously all leading to 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:34.900 something, and I can't help but think that this 00:48:34.900 --> 00:48:39.579 sort of real -world press scare, and it is just 00:48:39.579 --> 00:48:44.820 a scare. At the end of the day, there's no actual 00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:47.380 conversation beyond, oh, well, we'll find out 00:48:47.380 --> 00:48:49.380 at the end of the series. And I'm actually starting 00:48:49.380 --> 00:48:52.900 to think that... The series is going to end with 00:48:52.900 --> 00:48:56.059 Mrs. Flood confirming Series 3 or something along 00:48:56.059 --> 00:48:58.619 those lines, you know. Oh, we'll be back at Christmas. 00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:00.900 It's already filmed, that sort of thing, you 00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:06.139 know. So it'll be very curious to see kind of 00:49:06.139 --> 00:49:09.760 what's going on. Maybe we won't get a series 00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:13.380 next year. Maybe that's what The War Between 00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:15.739 the Land and Sea is for. It's to kind of fill 00:49:15.739 --> 00:49:20.309 that gap. um i just i don't know it's all speculation 00:49:20.309 --> 00:49:22.909 at this point but it's good speculation and if 00:49:22.909 --> 00:49:26.869 if the series itself is playing on the concept 00:49:26.869 --> 00:49:29.449 of fan speculation then yeah let's go with it 00:49:29.449 --> 00:49:32.869 it's going to be a hell of a ride yeah i think 00:49:32.869 --> 00:49:36.030 it's interesting yeah either way like you say 00:49:36.030 --> 00:49:39.170 because like there are so many other shows that 00:49:39.170 --> 00:49:44.289 have done like an episode where you question 00:49:44.289 --> 00:49:49.099 whether where the characters start to question 00:49:49.099 --> 00:49:52.800 whether their reality is the real world or not, 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:56.860 like Buffy and Deep Space Nine and loads of other 00:49:56.860 --> 00:50:00.239 shows, I'm sure. But it's always been very self 00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:02.579 -contained, like there's either a definitive 00:50:02.579 --> 00:50:04.840 answer at the end or a bit of uncertainty, but 00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:06.920 then you move on and the series gets back to 00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:12.300 normal. So I like the concept of Doctor Who seeding 00:50:12.300 --> 00:50:15.530 this. through and potentially picking it up at 00:50:15.530 --> 00:50:18.550 the end of a series that was like the original 00:50:18.550 --> 00:50:21.969 the series finale of deep space nine i think 00:50:21.969 --> 00:50:26.090 there was a concept of coming back to that idea 00:50:26.090 --> 00:50:30.389 that um that the captain sis the captain cisco 00:50:30.389 --> 00:50:34.809 was actually a 1950s sci -fi author and bringing 00:50:34.809 --> 00:50:38.469 that thread back in to have the final shot be 00:50:38.469 --> 00:50:42.150 him walking through the paramount lot and they 00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:46.679 They didn't go with that in the end, but I could 00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:49.440 see Doctor Who being brave or interesting enough 00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:51.960 to do something weird like that at the end of 00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:56.960 the series. I say go down the Red Dwarf route 00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:00.780 and have it all be a video game. But again, Red 00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:03.340 Dwarf has done that a couple of times with Back 00:51:03.340 --> 00:51:08.659 to Earth, the video game one, but they've always 00:51:08.659 --> 00:51:11.179 walked it back in a very definitive way of like 00:51:11.179 --> 00:51:17.590 it was. the dream squid or it was a VR game again 00:51:17.590 --> 00:51:20.050 I could see Doctor Who being the one where they're 00:51:20.050 --> 00:51:23.429 kind of brave enough to go oh it is just this 00:51:23.429 --> 00:51:26.150 or just leave it on an ambiguous note at the 00:51:26.150 --> 00:51:29.929 end yeah let it stick for a little bit at least 00:51:29.929 --> 00:51:37.340 yeah all very interesting and I hope that I hope 00:51:37.340 --> 00:51:39.440 that it continues to be interesting. I hope there's 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:41.679 no cop out and I hope there's no press this big 00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:43.599 red button and you're not a TV series anymore, 00:51:43.820 --> 00:51:47.639 which there's certainly a danger of, but it's 00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:50.840 going to be a hell of a journey regardless. And 00:51:50.840 --> 00:51:53.139 I'm enjoying this series so far. I think that 00:51:53.139 --> 00:51:56.840 it's ticked a lot of boxes for me already that 00:51:56.840 --> 00:51:59.940 maybe the last one didn't. I did not enjoy the 00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:03.679 last series. I just felt as though we were missing. 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.260 certain types of story, certain types of character. 00:52:07.380 --> 00:52:09.639 And I feel as though we've pretty much got a 00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:11.639 lot of that in the first two weeks of this series. 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:15.099 It feels more confident as like the fact that 00:52:15.099 --> 00:52:16.880 we'll be getting into the arc in the first episode, 00:52:16.940 --> 00:52:20.059 that there's like a mission for getting Belinda 00:52:20.059 --> 00:52:26.920 home. Yeah, it just feels like it's got the confidence 00:52:26.920 --> 00:52:30.599 to start running with things, which again would 00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:34.650 be like a massive parallel to... the classic 00:52:34.650 --> 00:52:37.949 series seasons 25 and 26 it's like just when 00:52:37.949 --> 00:52:41.550 that era was starting to find its voice and to 00:52:41.550 --> 00:52:45.230 tell some amazing stories it was it was cancelled 00:52:45.230 --> 00:52:49.250 so like worst case scenario we could be looking 00:52:49.250 --> 00:52:51.909 at something similar where it ends but it maybe 00:52:51.909 --> 00:52:55.289 ends on a high that's well regarded for decades 00:52:55.289 --> 00:53:00.730 afterwards which well I've said it many times 00:53:00.730 --> 00:53:04.219 before We would never have had Rose if we didn't 00:53:04.219 --> 00:53:09.079 have survival. Despite there being the 16 -year 00:53:09.079 --> 00:53:12.639 gap, like, Rose is absolutely a continuation 00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:15.940 of where Doctor Who started to go with survival, 00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:20.000 like that type of story, that kind of domestic 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:23.760 mystery setting type thing. And it's something 00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:26.719 that's served Doctor Who incredibly well since. 00:53:28.139 --> 00:53:30.730 Lots of other novels, but I think... The novels 00:53:30.730 --> 00:53:33.369 you could trace back to survival as well, because 00:53:33.369 --> 00:53:37.869 they were picking up on the direction that, but 00:53:37.869 --> 00:53:39.949 the importance of the companion was going in 00:53:39.949 --> 00:53:43.130 and the character of the doctor. So yeah, I think 00:53:43.130 --> 00:53:45.469 you're right. Survival is, well, what was going 00:53:45.469 --> 00:53:51.150 on in series 25, 26 is like what set up the 2005 00:53:51.150 --> 00:53:54.969 show. Definitely. Let's just hope that the reality 00:53:54.969 --> 00:53:59.429 war isn't this generation survival. We'll see. 00:54:00.900 --> 00:54:02.519 Well, that's probably a good point to leave it. 00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:05.800 We'll come back next week and we'll talk about 00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:09.639 the next episode, which, if certain rumours, 00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:13.639 alleged leaks, so on, would leave you to believe, 00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:16.179 will be really, really good. Like, by all accounts, 00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:20.320 we're on for a good 'un this week. So we'll be 00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:23.519 back to talk about that. Roll it on. But for 00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:25.280 now, thanks very much for joining me, Mansour. 00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:27.320 It's been good to talk about another episode. 00:54:27.699 --> 00:54:31.519 Yep, thank you. And we will be back next week. 00:54:31.619 --> 00:54:32.239 Goodbye now.