WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 You're listening to a podcast of spurious morality. 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:08.119 I reckon we should name her a star that. Get 00:00:08.119 --> 00:00:10.939 a little bit of paper. This star is called Spodcast. 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:11.099 Hello and welcome to a podcast of Spurious Morality. 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:14.000 I'm Johnston and this week I'm joined by Mansour. 00:01:14.060 --> 00:01:18.099 Hello. Hello. And we've got a new episode of 00:01:18.099 --> 00:01:20.939 Doctor Who to talk about, which is always exciting. 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:23.659 We're going to try and keep up with this series. 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.939 We've kind of paused our podcast schedule that 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:31.680 we had planned out last summer. And we're going 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:34.700 to talk about the new series week on week and 00:01:34.700 --> 00:01:38.579 see how we get on. So quite exciting. New Doctor 00:01:38.579 --> 00:01:43.519 Who. The Robot Revolution was episode one. Had 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:46.219 quite a lot to do. Fit quite a lot into, I think 00:01:46.219 --> 00:01:49.939 it was about 50, 55 minutes. Introduced new companions. 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:52.760 Set up a few things for the rest of the series. 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:55.500 Carried on a few mysteries from the last one. 00:01:55.620 --> 00:01:58.879 And just generally, generally was a pretty decent 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:00.640 episode, actually. I think it was quite good. 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:03.620 What were sort of your initial thoughts on it? 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:10.240 uh same i thought um like quite a solid opener 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:13.780 and like with a lot of season openers even going 00:02:13.780 --> 00:02:18.599 back to rose uh the the villain and that thread 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:22.639 was relatively light but it was focusing on introducing 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:26.319 a new companion and just doing some of that character 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:28.759 work and i thought it was yeah really successful 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:31.900 uh yeah in terms of introducing belinda and yeah 00:02:32.539 --> 00:02:35.000 Yeah, introducing Belinda was definitely the 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:37.819 priority. And I quite liked how for the first 00:02:37.819 --> 00:02:42.479 sort of 15 minutes or so of the episode, it pretty 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:46.319 much focused on her. The Doctor was kind of in 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.520 the periphery and the Doctor kind of became the 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.280 main character as the episode went on. But it 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.879 took a little while to get there. But it wasn't... 00:02:58.379 --> 00:03:00.460 You know, we sort of have done similar things 00:03:00.460 --> 00:03:03.539 before, particularly with Rose and Smith and 00:03:03.539 --> 00:03:06.180 Jones, where there was a heavy focus on Rose 00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:09.740 and Martha for the first little bit. Yeah, same 00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:13.780 sort of template. Yeah. But I felt this actually 00:03:13.780 --> 00:03:16.919 spent a little bit more time on Belinda than 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:19.319 either of those two. It felt like it was just 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:21.479 a little bit later into the episode before the 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:25.199 Doctor got fully introduced and had the, you 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:28.039 know, I'm the Doctor moment. He'd been working 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:30.039 away in the background, obviously. It's established 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:33.139 that he'd been on the planet for six months and 00:03:33.139 --> 00:03:36.259 all that kind of thing and seemed to have a sort 00:03:36.259 --> 00:03:38.840 of pseudo -companion already, although she got 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:44.319 killed pretty quickly. So, yeah, I quite liked 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:48.860 that focus and I think that worked well. We just 00:03:48.860 --> 00:03:51.680 spent a little bit of time getting to know the 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:53.860 companion and getting to see their reaction to 00:03:53.860 --> 00:03:57.689 all the weird stuff going on. alien world and 00:03:57.689 --> 00:04:00.789 all that kind of thing before the Doctor is introduced. 00:04:01.409 --> 00:04:06.169 Whereas in Smith and Jones and Rose, the Doctor 00:04:06.169 --> 00:04:10.610 is introduced kind of before slash as it all 00:04:10.610 --> 00:04:13.169 gets weird, whereas we kind of got the weird 00:04:13.169 --> 00:04:16.189 moment before the Doctor came into it this time. 00:04:16.250 --> 00:04:18.250 So I quite like that. It's, like I say, similar 00:04:18.250 --> 00:04:21.850 template to what RTD's done before, but it just 00:04:21.850 --> 00:04:26.300 sort of... went a step further. And I feel as 00:04:26.300 --> 00:04:28.680 though I know Belinda a little bit better after 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:32.079 one episode than arguably any other companion. 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:37.060 So that's good. Same. And I think it really helps 00:04:37.060 --> 00:04:40.959 that Belinda, I feel, is already a relatively 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:43.399 interesting and different companion. She's got 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:48.660 those elements of like Tegan and Donna and being 00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:51.600 like a bit more challenging or oppositional with 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.000 the Doctor. But I felt like in this episode, 00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:57.779 it's played a lot straighter and a lot more sincerely 00:04:57.779 --> 00:05:00.560 than in those other examples at times. Like with 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.060 Donna, certainly it was much more played for 00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:06.560 laughs, like when she's getting to know the Doctor 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:09.660 in those first couple of episodes. But here, 00:05:09.779 --> 00:05:11.560 and I guess we'll get into it when we get into 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:17.220 those final scenes, but it's much more kind of 00:05:17.220 --> 00:05:20.139 dramatic and interesting and layered, I thought. 00:05:21.870 --> 00:05:27.389 Yeah, and it just feels as though we know this 00:05:27.389 --> 00:05:29.230 character, this companion, a little bit better 00:05:29.230 --> 00:05:31.170 than we have any others after one episode. And 00:05:31.170 --> 00:05:34.209 I think we might not be spending all that much 00:05:34.209 --> 00:05:36.529 time with her. It could well be that we have 00:05:36.529 --> 00:05:38.970 eight episodes with Belinda now and that's it. 00:05:39.050 --> 00:05:43.069 That could be all of it. And we know Ruby's coming 00:05:43.069 --> 00:05:46.730 back into the series at some point. Do we know 00:05:46.730 --> 00:05:48.870 what point Ruby's coming back into it at all? 00:05:49.449 --> 00:05:54.269 Is it episode four? Is it the unit one? Episode 00:05:54.269 --> 00:05:57.430 four, I feel like. Fair enough. Yeah, I've kind 00:05:57.430 --> 00:06:01.189 of not looked into that. I think it's Lucky Day. 00:06:01.389 --> 00:06:05.850 Yeah, the fourth one. So, you know, we're going 00:06:05.850 --> 00:06:07.990 to spend more time with Ruby anyway. We know 00:06:07.990 --> 00:06:11.370 about that. And Ruby's already had nine episodes, 00:06:11.509 --> 00:06:14.290 ten if you count the Joy to the World cameo. 00:06:15.350 --> 00:06:20.220 So it's... Yeah, I think it's important that 00:06:20.220 --> 00:06:22.819 we did get to know Belinda a little bit quicker. 00:06:23.060 --> 00:06:25.060 And I think just giving her a little bit more 00:06:25.060 --> 00:06:27.220 focus of that first episode was the right way 00:06:27.220 --> 00:06:32.639 of doing it. And obviously, you know, it turned 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:35.319 out the entire focus of the episode was kind 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:37.199 of on her. You know, we go to a planet named 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:39.720 after her and all that kind of thing. And there's 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:41.360 still a mystery there for the Doctor to pull 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.180 apart. But then you kind of have this moment 00:06:44.180 --> 00:06:47.329 at the end where the Doctor kind of... goes through 00:06:47.329 --> 00:06:50.110 her time stream and knows everything about her 00:06:50.110 --> 00:06:53.629 and all that kind of thing and it it sort of 00:06:53.629 --> 00:06:56.649 it kind of skips a lot of the doctor getting 00:06:56.649 --> 00:06:59.829 to know the companion while we've actually had 00:06:59.829 --> 00:07:03.410 time to get to know her as well so they're diving 00:07:03.410 --> 00:07:05.689 straight in anyway they're not sort of messing 00:07:05.689 --> 00:07:08.069 about and taking a few episodes to introduce 00:07:08.069 --> 00:07:11.750 her i think you need to do that oh sorry go on 00:07:11.750 --> 00:07:14.029 well i was going to say which they kind of did 00:07:14.029 --> 00:07:17.339 with ruby you know we kind of got church on ruby 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:20.300 road we got space babies and then by the time 00:07:20.300 --> 00:07:22.139 we got to devil's court it was oh we've been 00:07:22.139 --> 00:07:23.959 together for six months now and all this is going 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:27.040 on and the tardis is perfectly normal and all 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:29.759 that sort of thing i wonder if that's going to 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:33.199 be if that if that gap is going to be filled 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:35.319 in this series because i've heard something about 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:38.220 like a russell d davis had said something about 00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:43.139 like a flashback to something in series one um 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:45.639 So I wonder if there's like some grand plan and 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:48.139 that wasn't just a bit of, that wasn't just an 00:07:48.139 --> 00:07:50.560 odd time jump. It was something that's going 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.420 to be filled in. But what you're saying about 00:07:53.420 --> 00:07:55.560 getting stuck into getting to know Belinda, I 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:59.560 think the same with like the series arc. I think 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:02.639 with eight episodes, you don't want to, you don't 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.079 want to pad, you can't pad things out and, you 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:06.699 know, wait a few episodes to start introducing 00:08:06.699 --> 00:08:10.199 this stuff. You have to get it going in episode 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:13.579 one to... to have room to do anything interesting 00:08:13.579 --> 00:08:16.699 with it. So I liked that they set up her character 00:08:16.699 --> 00:08:21.319 and they got the arc story for the season kicked 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:26.540 off as well. Yeah, and continued kind of brings 00:08:26.540 --> 00:08:29.600 us on to our next talking point, actually. Continued 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:33.039 what's going on. We had Mrs. Flood pop up at 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:35.419 the start and it turns out she's living next 00:08:35.419 --> 00:08:38.220 door to Belinda, which isn't where she was last 00:08:38.220 --> 00:08:41.330 series. And she breaks the fourth wall again, 00:08:41.409 --> 00:08:43.950 which I think is quite significant. She's done 00:08:43.950 --> 00:08:47.490 that a few times now. At first we kind of all 00:08:47.490 --> 00:08:49.429 just sort of cast it off as a bit of a gimmick 00:08:49.429 --> 00:08:51.889 and, yeah, good joke, she's broken the fourth 00:08:51.889 --> 00:08:53.610 wall. But it seems to be something she does. 00:08:54.350 --> 00:08:56.409 It feels like more than that now at this point. 00:08:57.090 --> 00:09:00.629 You're right, like once or twice, like end of 00:09:00.629 --> 00:09:03.250 the Christmas special, end of series one, you 00:09:03.250 --> 00:09:06.100 could maybe write off a couple of them. it's 00:09:06.100 --> 00:09:09.519 becoming a very conspicuous thing with her. Yeah, 00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:13.059 it's good that we've got something that's gone 00:09:13.059 --> 00:09:18.879 on over more than one series. We've had a lot 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:21.879 of one -series storylines that haven't quite 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:25.159 padded out or haven't had time to breathe. I'm 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.960 thinking back to Series 9 when we had The Hybrid, 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.330 which was a... A fairly cool idea that never 00:09:31.330 --> 00:09:34.549 quite got explored beyond the idea of a hybrid 00:09:34.549 --> 00:09:39.990 being mentioned once per episode. Whereas Mrs. 00:09:40.110 --> 00:09:43.149 Flood, it feels like there's genuinely a mystery 00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:45.389 being built up. There's something going on there. 00:09:45.690 --> 00:09:48.490 And I think I've read somewhere that she's in 00:09:48.490 --> 00:09:51.389 every episode this season. I don't know if I've 00:09:51.389 --> 00:09:53.909 made that up or not. Yeah, because there are 00:09:53.909 --> 00:09:57.590 cast lists. for some of the episodes at least. 00:09:57.710 --> 00:10:00.950 But yeah, she's definitely popping up in, it 00:10:00.950 --> 00:10:05.629 seems like, the majority at least. Yeah. Which 00:10:05.629 --> 00:10:08.389 is worth noting we did kind of have last year 00:10:08.389 --> 00:10:14.289 with the Susan Triad character. So I'm not entirely 00:10:14.289 --> 00:10:18.529 sure, you know, are we just repeating the sort 00:10:18.529 --> 00:10:21.669 of tease from last year again here? Or is this 00:10:21.669 --> 00:10:23.929 going to go in a different direction? Because... 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:29.159 I liked the idea of the same face, the same actor 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:33.679 turning up in each episode. That really worked 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.799 well. But then at the same time, it worked well 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:39.679 last series. Is it going to work as well this 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.000 series or are we just sort of going to go weekly 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:49.440 cameo again? Yeah. Like on the surface, it's 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.320 the same. But I guess like... the implication 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:55.779 at least is that this is the same mrs flood and 00:10:55.779 --> 00:10:57.639 all these locations and that's the mystery of 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:00.539 like how does this person get to all these different 00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:03.500 places when he thought she was just ruby's neighbor 00:11:03.500 --> 00:11:09.919 initially uh so so yeah it's it's kind of but 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:12.399 then that's this is one of the things i was thinking 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:15.500 about this whole era and mark and i talked about 00:11:15.500 --> 00:11:18.490 it a bit in the the retrospective episodes um 00:11:18.490 --> 00:11:21.330 i'm enjoying a lot of it and those those retrospectives 00:11:21.330 --> 00:11:23.529 reminded me of how much i enjoyed in series one 00:11:23.529 --> 00:11:26.129 and at the same time i keep getting reminded 00:11:26.129 --> 00:11:28.289 of how and this might this is completely like 00:11:28.289 --> 00:11:32.230 my expectations like going into this second russell 00:11:32.230 --> 00:11:35.409 t davis episode in my head i sort of thought 00:11:35.409 --> 00:11:38.629 he's going to do something really you know mad 00:11:38.629 --> 00:11:40.950 and radical he's going to take all of those other 00:11:40.950 --> 00:11:43.590 dramas that he's done in the in between years 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:47.059 and and completely reinvent what Doctor Who is. 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:50.240 And that's probably a silly expectation because 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:55.039 it's a format that you can't stretch beyond a 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:58.120 certain point. And yeah, like you're saying, 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:01.419 repeating between series one and series two, 00:12:01.539 --> 00:12:04.440 there's a lot of things that are repeated or 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:08.759 echoed from the last 20 years or even further 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:13.029 back of Doctor Who. But even just like the season 00:12:13.029 --> 00:12:15.850 structure, like the fact that you have a mystery, 00:12:16.090 --> 00:12:17.809 that that is just being something that we expect 00:12:17.809 --> 00:12:24.029 now. Yeah, and I'm a big fan of every season 00:12:24.029 --> 00:12:27.269 having an arc or arcs that stretch across a few 00:12:27.269 --> 00:12:32.409 seasons. I remember how sort of radical it felt 00:12:32.409 --> 00:12:37.440 at the end of Series 5 when... You know, the 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.080 Earth, well, the universe had been undestroyed 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.879 and rebooted and, you know, the consequences 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.200 of the mystery had kind of been solved, but the 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.080 mystery itself hadn't. And then, you know, we 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:50.460 had all the stuff with the silence and that kind 00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:53.059 of thing that followed. And it was nice to just 00:12:53.059 --> 00:12:55.399 have that little sort of acknowledgement at the 00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:57.580 end of Series 5, oh, there's still a few questions 00:12:57.580 --> 00:13:02.259 to answer and that kind of thing. And then we've 00:13:02.259 --> 00:13:06.440 got a similar thing here, but this. This feels 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:10.320 more ongoing, like the whole thing with the silence 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:14.919 in Series 6. I like Series 6 generally. I think 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.159 I'm one of the people that probably enjoyed it 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:20.720 more than others did, but it did feel a little 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.919 bit clunky going from that mystery setup at the 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:27.159 end of Series 5 to it sort of turning quite a 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.100 bit in Series 6 and going in various different 00:13:30.100 --> 00:13:32.879 directions. Same. I thought Series 6 was like 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:37.019 a really, really... strong interesting like six 00:13:37.019 --> 00:13:40.120 or seven episode mini series with like these 00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:43.600 other random stories slotted in in between and 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.860 kind of in that transitional thing of like do 00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:51.279 we make doctor who like an ongoing serial drama 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:55.139 like like all streaming shows are or do we stick 00:13:55.139 --> 00:13:58.440 to the monster of the week thing and the x -files 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:00.740 had that a bit as well like you know years ago 00:14:00.740 --> 00:14:03.590 like they had their very archy episodes and then 00:14:03.590 --> 00:14:05.230 suddenly it was a bit of whiplash going back 00:14:05.230 --> 00:14:08.529 to like your monster of the week stories and 00:14:08.529 --> 00:14:11.710 with doctor who series six being just you know 00:14:11.710 --> 00:14:16.289 much shorter uh yeah it took up time when and 00:14:16.289 --> 00:14:18.149 especially when you had those big revelations 00:14:18.149 --> 00:14:20.450 we're getting into a bit of a series six retrospective 00:14:20.450 --> 00:14:22.570 now but especially when you have those big revelations 00:14:22.570 --> 00:14:26.029 about you know amy and river you you want to 00:14:26.029 --> 00:14:28.149 pick up on those like in the next episode and 00:14:28.149 --> 00:14:31.429 run with them and it kind of knocks the momentum 00:14:31.429 --> 00:14:33.809 out of it to just have like a traditional story 00:14:33.809 --> 00:14:36.169 and it does that story a disservice as well because 00:14:36.169 --> 00:14:40.350 it might be a good story but it's in the wrong 00:14:40.350 --> 00:14:44.429 place um but yeah but i agree with you i liked 00:14:44.429 --> 00:14:46.950 i liked a lot of series six like i liked what 00:14:46.950 --> 00:14:51.889 it was trying to do yeah i mean you know maybe 00:14:51.889 --> 00:14:54.629 maybe the shorter episode count now could actually 00:14:54.629 --> 00:14:56.789 benefit this because like you say you know series 00:14:56.789 --> 00:15:00.009 six could probably have been four or five episodes 00:15:00.009 --> 00:15:03.029 shorter and actually been a really, really tight 00:15:03.029 --> 00:15:05.230 little piece. But when you're watching through 00:15:05.230 --> 00:15:09.289 series six, you get to sort of night... It's 00:15:09.289 --> 00:15:12.730 not night thoughts, is it? That's Big Finish. 00:15:13.850 --> 00:15:17.730 Another one you mean, the one with the peg doll? 00:15:18.149 --> 00:15:22.000 Yeah, the Mark Gatiss one. Yeah. I can't believe 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:24.379 I've forgotten its name. Night Terrors? Night 00:15:24.379 --> 00:15:26.659 Terrors. It could be Night Terrors. Whenever 00:15:26.659 --> 00:15:29.120 you get to that one, it feels like you've just 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.759 hit a barrier. It really does feel like we've 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.879 been moving in directions. We've had the big 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:40.440 two -part opener. We've had the flesh two -parter 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:42.759 that went straight into A Good Man Goes to War, 00:15:42.860 --> 00:15:45.379 which went near enough straight into Let's Kill 00:15:45.379 --> 00:15:49.820 Hitler. And then it just feels like a big... 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:56.159 doesn't it? I mean, by looking to the future, 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.919 it sounds like Russell T Davies wants to stick 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:01.220 around from what he's saying. If Disney did renew, 00:16:01.460 --> 00:16:04.039 it sounds like he'd carry on for at least another 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.139 few seasons. And I'd be interested to see what 00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:10.120 he comes up with. But I also really want someone 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.019 new to come in because you look at the changes 00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:16.519 in showrunners, those are the times when the 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:20.899 format has shifted a little bit. yeah you know 00:16:20.899 --> 00:16:24.000 series five was a bit safer but it was moffat's 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.620 one of moffat's early seasons series six where 00:16:26.620 --> 00:16:29.059 you had that experiment with the format of the 00:16:29.059 --> 00:16:32.879 arc and the season and then um tribunal had some 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:35.639 like other approaches like i think like culminating 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.240 in flux which was i guess flux is what we're 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.440 saying series six could have been like six episodes 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:45.600 telling a much more concentrated story with more 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.730 momentum And then it feels like we've come back 00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:53.350 full circle and we're now getting eight episode 00:16:53.350 --> 00:16:56.549 compressed versions of Russell Davis's original 00:16:56.549 --> 00:17:02.850 13 episode structure. So, so yeah, always excited 00:17:02.850 --> 00:17:04.869 to see what he comes up with, but I would really 00:17:04.869 --> 00:17:09.190 like a new fresh take on what Doctor Who could 00:17:09.190 --> 00:17:13.329 be next. You see, I think what I'd like to see 00:17:13.329 --> 00:17:18.640 is sort of a period of. I think one thing that 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.200 has sort of perhaps negatively affected the series 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:25.339 quite a bit is every so many years, the whole 00:17:25.339 --> 00:17:28.880 thing just seems to pause while we change over 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:34.500 showrunner. Yeah. And it's not a hard reboot. 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.400 I mean, you know, in context of the series, it 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:40.680 is kind of a hard reboot. You know, it's actually 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.000 quite jarring going from, I don't know, Twice 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:45.480 Upon a Time to Woman Who Fell to Earth, for example. 00:17:47.990 --> 00:17:51.970 And I wish we would actually have some kind of 00:17:51.970 --> 00:17:55.650 crossover, you know, how kind of Barry Letts 00:17:55.650 --> 00:17:58.190 and Tony Stick hung around for a bit of season 00:17:58.190 --> 00:18:02.369 12 and, you know, Robert Holmes and Philip Hinchcliffe 00:18:02.369 --> 00:18:05.569 were involved with 11. Like on screen, companions 00:18:05.569 --> 00:18:08.490 would carry over to like bed in the new doctor 00:18:08.490 --> 00:18:10.349 and have some continuity. That was a bit of a 00:18:10.349 --> 00:18:14.900 tradition. Yeah, that would help as well. So 00:18:14.900 --> 00:18:18.339 I'd quite like to see that. Let's say Russell 00:18:18.339 --> 00:18:20.819 T Davies, I think he said in an interview in 00:18:20.819 --> 00:18:23.779 the last week that his intention is to stick 00:18:23.779 --> 00:18:27.599 around for four or five series. Well, could he 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.920 be sort of co -show running with the next person 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:34.440 for series four and five and then just give us 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:36.660 a sense of continuity, give us a sense that it's 00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:41.119 the same series? Because sort of... bringing 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:43.099 down a hatchet and going it's a different thing 00:18:43.099 --> 00:18:45.700 now every five years I think might actually have 00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:49.759 been to the series detriment. We haven't had 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:52.599 War Between the Land and the Sea yet but I wonder 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:54.559 if spin -offs might be a part of that as well 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:59.220 because again at the start of the new series 00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:04.680 we had Sarah Jane running and Torchwood and those 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.799 are a form of continuity as well because you 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.160 could have the spinoffs running alongside the 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:12.559 main show, and they don't necessarily need to 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:18.160 stop when the main showrunners take over. But, 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:23.019 yeah, anyway. And, you know, having a spinoff 00:19:23.019 --> 00:19:27.420 is a pretty decent proving ground for the next 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:30.559 showrunner, absolutely. I mean, look at Chibnall. 00:19:30.619 --> 00:19:32.859 Chibnall did a pretty good job on Torchwood, 00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:36.420 actually, particularly the second series. I think 00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:38.619 the first series was slightly chaotic production 00:19:38.619 --> 00:19:42.319 -wise in terms of who was actually in charge 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:44.980 and was it a Russell T Davies series, was it 00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:47.000 Chibnall who seemed to be brought in last minute 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:49.440 and all that kind of thing. Whereas the second 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.559 series, which was pretty much Chibnall all the 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.859 way, that was really good. It was pretty solid, 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.140 pretty coherent storyline. Just tone and everything. 00:20:00.339 --> 00:20:02.480 It felt like it knew what sort of show it wanted 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:06.559 to be, whereas Tortured Series 1 was... had some 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:10.279 good bits but like when i was watching it at 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:12.960 the time i i remember just the whole time trying 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:15.480 to work out okay what what sort of tone are they 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.240 going for like what what sort of vibe is this 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:20.440 and then yeah series two just felt like much 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:22.359 more self -assured like you know this is what 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.900 talk should is yeah and it you know it had things 00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:29.299 like that very sort of loose three -parter featuring 00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:32.200 martha through the middle and you know the whole 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.779 owen being killed story and that kind of thing 00:20:35.309 --> 00:20:37.490 And that was brilliant. It was really, really 00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:43.230 good. So maybe just, yeah, some kind of moving 00:20:43.230 --> 00:20:49.190 forward, some kind of showrunner crossover, handover 00:20:49.190 --> 00:20:52.630 series or two, just so there's a smooth transition 00:20:52.630 --> 00:20:56.750 and not like a hard, it's different now, knock 00:20:56.750 --> 00:20:59.089 on the head, feels like you're restarting. I 00:20:59.089 --> 00:21:02.529 suppose Russell T Davies has brought things through 00:21:02.529 --> 00:21:07.619 from other eras. unit characters and that kind 00:21:07.619 --> 00:21:09.500 of thing coming through from other eras so it's 00:21:09.500 --> 00:21:13.440 not it's not entirely sort of locked off the 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.680 past whereas woman who fell to earth really did 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:19.059 feel like complete and total divorce from what 00:21:19.059 --> 00:21:24.640 come before as did the 11th hour um and yeah 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.599 i think i'd rather have just sort of a more smooth 00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:32.799 sense of things moving forward i guess showrunners 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.369 might This is just speculation, but I'm assuming 00:21:35.369 --> 00:21:37.450 when a new showrunner comes in, they kind of 00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:41.049 want to put their stamp on it and draw a bit 00:21:41.049 --> 00:21:43.190 of a line and say, like, this is what my vision 00:21:43.190 --> 00:21:47.349 of the show is. And then I think in both those 00:21:47.349 --> 00:21:48.789 eras, they did start... Well, like, you know, 00:21:48.829 --> 00:21:54.190 Kate comes back in later Chibnall episodes, and 00:21:54.190 --> 00:21:58.069 so they do start bringing in more bits from... 00:21:58.410 --> 00:22:01.029 previous series eras but yeah like that that 00:22:01.029 --> 00:22:02.710 is one thing russell davis has done this time 00:22:02.710 --> 00:22:05.630 like fully embraced the timeless child stuff 00:22:05.630 --> 00:22:09.210 and i think actually built on that in like an 00:22:09.210 --> 00:22:11.009 even more interesting way than we actually had 00:22:11.009 --> 00:22:17.069 in in uh in the 13th doctors era so yeah he's 00:22:17.069 --> 00:22:20.230 been like very open to embracing like the past 00:22:20.230 --> 00:22:23.470 20 or further further well with sutek much further 00:22:23.470 --> 00:22:29.500 back than 20 years as well Yeah, but I guess 00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:31.799 Russell T Davies has got the confidence to do 00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:34.799 that because it's something he did very, very, 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:39.559 very, very slowly throughout his first run. It 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:43.900 wasn't all dumped there in rows. We didn't get 00:22:43.900 --> 00:22:46.940 a reference to Scarrow until the end of the second 00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:50.730 series and Gallifrey came after that. He felt 00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:53.369 like he was very cautious. He was worried about, 00:22:53.549 --> 00:22:56.029 because I guess this is coming off the back of 00:22:56.029 --> 00:22:58.369 the TV movie where in the first like 30 seconds 00:22:58.369 --> 00:23:01.750 you get like a Wikipedia article about the Doctor 00:23:01.750 --> 00:23:03.789 and the Master and the Daleks and that opening 00:23:03.789 --> 00:23:07.190 narration. And I felt like I imagine that was 00:23:07.190 --> 00:23:08.990 at the back of his mind when he's writing Rose 00:23:08.990 --> 00:23:10.829 and thinking about those first couple of seasons 00:23:10.829 --> 00:23:15.670 to not do that and to very consciously and carefully 00:23:15.670 --> 00:23:18.069 introduce things in a way that makes sense to 00:23:18.069 --> 00:23:23.130 new people. which there's definitely been a shift 00:23:23.130 --> 00:23:26.150 in over 20 years of New Doctor Who now. Like 00:23:26.150 --> 00:23:29.769 you say, we had Sutec in Series 1, which still 00:23:29.769 --> 00:23:32.970 kind of strikes me as mad. We got a special edition 00:23:32.970 --> 00:23:38.809 of Pyramids out of it, which is fantastic. So, 00:23:38.990 --> 00:23:46.769 yeah, it's good that we are able to now go back 00:23:46.769 --> 00:23:51.980 to stuff a little bit more. I guess. And if certain 00:23:51.980 --> 00:23:55.259 rumours about Mrs. Flood are true, we're going 00:23:55.259 --> 00:23:57.000 to be doing something similar to that again. 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:01.920 So I'll sort of hang a very tentative spoiler 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:06.640 warning before I start discussing this. But there's 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:11.500 rumours out there that she is somehow is or is 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:14.440 linked to or is bi -generated from or whatever 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.779 you want, the Rani. Now, okay, we've had 17 million 00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:25.859 Rani rumours since 2005, but there's obviously 00:24:25.859 --> 00:24:32.720 something... I don't know. This one feels like 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:35.700 it's a little bit more serious. This one doesn't 00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:39.440 feel like it's as tongue -in -cheek as everything 00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:43.079 else. I sort of hope, I really hope not, unless 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:46.799 it's for a couple of reasons. I just don't get, 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:51.400 maybe she's like fob watched and chameleon arched 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.180 or something, but I don't get that vibe at all 00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:57.779 from Mrs. Flood. And maybe it's a thing of like, 00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:00.460 sometimes Time Lords personalities do change 00:25:00.460 --> 00:25:04.539 in incarnations. But, and also the other reason 00:25:04.539 --> 00:25:07.960 is, again, we've got eight episodes and to tell 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:13.240 like a really sort of interesting story about. 00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:16.039 Belinda and whatever's going on with her and 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:19.880 I just feel like it sort of takes a lot of air 00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:22.859 time and space away if you introduce this big 00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:28.460 classic series character from decades ago and 00:25:28.460 --> 00:25:32.359 maybe they've sort of given up on like making 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:35.920 it that 2005 approach of just working for a fresh 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.640 audience but yeah like how well does it work 00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:44.319 to have like Sutec and Durrani as your big big 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:47.559 villains like Amo gives the other rumour isn't 00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:52.599 it that alongside the Rani same with him that 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:57.660 feels like something that Big Finish or possibly 00:25:57.660 --> 00:26:01.299 the books should be doing and the TV series especially 00:26:01.299 --> 00:26:03.799 if it's meant to be this fresh new era with a 00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.900 big international audience should possibly be 00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:14.150 doing something new I mean I'd have to debate 00:26:14.150 --> 00:26:16.109 something you said there, actually, which is 00:26:16.109 --> 00:26:18.470 the Rani's a big villain. The Rani is not a big 00:26:18.470 --> 00:26:21.769 villain. You know, the Rani is not the Daleks, 00:26:21.789 --> 00:26:25.170 the Master, Cybermen, even Sontar and that kind 00:26:25.170 --> 00:26:29.069 of thing. The Rani popped up in two stories. 00:26:30.410 --> 00:26:34.609 Dimensions and times, technically. Two stories 00:26:34.609 --> 00:26:39.250 and a charity special in arguably the most obscure. 00:26:40.620 --> 00:26:46.019 eras of the classic show um couple of big finishes 00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:51.700 since and it's just sort of like the rani as 00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:54.500 a character as a concept i suppose is quite interesting 00:26:54.500 --> 00:27:00.680 sort of the ethics free ends justify the means 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.500 scientific it's like a different take on a villain 00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:07.480 titled Yeah, like the Rani serves a purpose. 00:27:07.539 --> 00:27:10.559 The Rani does something specific. I don't see 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:13.819 what the Rani would be doing knocking about in, 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:18.680 you know, this time where the Pantheon gods, 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.599 Sutex, Toymakers, whatever, are kind of creeping 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.460 into our universe. The Rani does not fit into 00:27:24.460 --> 00:27:30.859 that. That's not the Rani's MO. Not at all. in 00:27:30.859 --> 00:27:33.339 the finale to series one the way that mrs flood 00:27:33.339 --> 00:27:36.339 is talking just before she's dusted is like she's 00:27:36.339 --> 00:27:39.740 talking as though she is some power like on a 00:27:39.740 --> 00:27:44.039 level with the gods or is a god herself um and 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:48.240 yeah the rani is very you know might be egotistical 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.079 or arrogant but doesn't feel like the kind of 00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:52.180 thing that she would it doesn't feel like the 00:27:52.180 --> 00:27:53.859 way that she would talk about herself she's a 00:27:53.859 --> 00:27:57.200 scientist like how is she suddenly talking like 00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:04.329 some sort of mythical superpower. Yeah. If you've 00:28:04.329 --> 00:28:08.170 got a good sort of slightly mad scientist story 00:28:08.170 --> 00:28:10.950 to tell, use the Rani. It makes perfect sense. 00:28:11.289 --> 00:28:16.990 But if you are messing about with gods and superior 00:28:16.990 --> 00:28:20.950 beings and all this kind of thing, no, doesn't 00:28:20.950 --> 00:28:25.450 make any sense. I can see the Master kind of 00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:27.869 having something to do with it. The Master's 00:28:27.869 --> 00:28:30.849 gone after godlike creatures before, think like 00:28:30.849 --> 00:28:33.710 the demons or the time monster, that kind of 00:28:33.710 --> 00:28:36.289 thing. Yeah, that would make more sense. Yeah, 00:28:36.329 --> 00:28:41.430 it's not around anything. I do hope that rumour 00:28:41.430 --> 00:28:44.829 is absolute bobbins, but if it turns out to be 00:28:44.829 --> 00:28:49.869 sort of anything at all, I hope it's done well 00:28:49.869 --> 00:28:52.109 and I hope it's done for a reason and I hope 00:28:52.109 --> 00:28:57.299 it's not. Here's the next. level of significant 00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:00.240 villain that we can think of because we've brought 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.680 everything else back tune in for series three 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:09.000 where we're digging sill or you know yeah we've 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:12.079 had all the classic big bads now we haven't really 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:17.539 yeah we haven't really got any big classic series 00:29:17.539 --> 00:29:22.779 villains worth bringing back i think what Russell 00:29:22.779 --> 00:29:25.180 Tudavis talked about using the Toymaker in the 00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:27.700 recent specials and how it wasn't originally 00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:30.440 the Toymaker and then he was writing it and then 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:32.480 he thought, OK, well, this might as well be the 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.279 Toymaker because he's close enough to this threat 00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:39.319 that I'm putting in this story. That makes complete 00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:41.980 sense to me. It's like you were saying, if you've 00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:44.460 got a story where it's a scientist character, 00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:49.099 that might as well be the Rani. But it's like... 00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:54.299 It's when it kind of feels a bit more out of 00:29:54.299 --> 00:30:00.299 place or doesn't fit with the story in isolation. 00:30:01.180 --> 00:30:04.299 And again, the comparison we made in the retrospective 00:30:04.299 --> 00:30:08.500 was the reveal of Sutec feeling a bit out of 00:30:08.500 --> 00:30:10.799 nowhere and a bit overblown if you're just watching 00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:15.619 that series of TV. Whereas if you watch Series 00:30:15.619 --> 00:30:19.660 3 and Utopia and the Masters reveal... There's 00:30:19.660 --> 00:30:24.119 enough seeded in those episodes in that season 00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:27.400 with the fob watch, with mentions of Gallifrey, 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:32.160 with all of that in that same series of TV that 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:34.819 you get the significance of that reveal when 00:30:34.819 --> 00:30:38.000 the master opens the fob watch. And that's like 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.259 the big difference for me. Like it works in isolation 00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:44.099 as a story and has an extra layer if you've watched 00:30:44.099 --> 00:30:49.920 50 years of the show before it. They obviously 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:53.819 knew SUTEC was a bit of a bizarre reveal because 00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:56.059 they went, by the way, if you don't know who 00:30:56.059 --> 00:30:59.079 SUTEC is, we've got a 15 -year -old Doctor Who 00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:01.700 story that we've stuck a bit of CGI on for you 00:31:01.700 --> 00:31:04.420 airing on Thursday night. Give that a watch. 00:31:05.779 --> 00:31:08.079 Which, you know, again, great. I think it's absolutely 00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:10.779 great that we got that Tales from the TARDIS 00:31:10.779 --> 00:31:13.099 and that they did film new stuff for it and we 00:31:13.099 --> 00:31:17.400 do have this shiny. very actually tightly edited 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:20.900 um and well cgi version of pyramid to mars i'm 00:31:20.900 --> 00:31:25.619 really happy that exists but it was kind of sort 00:31:25.619 --> 00:31:28.200 of going to probably a good chunk of the audience 00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:31.000 yeah we know you don't know what's going on but 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.660 have a look at this spend 20 minutes sorry spend 00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:36.940 90 minutes looking at this and you'll you'll 00:31:36.940 --> 00:31:41.019 you'll get it you'll figure out I like the idea 00:31:41.019 --> 00:31:43.539 of the colourisations and the cut -downs and 00:31:43.539 --> 00:31:45.640 Tales from the TARDIS and making the most of 00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:49.140 the back catalogue, but just not at the expense 00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:52.599 of telling a coherent story in the new current 00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:57.240 flagship show. It's just dawned on me that in 00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.920 seven weeks' time we could be talking about a 00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:03.220 brand -new edited 75 -minute CGI'd -up version 00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:09.730 of Time and the Rami. Oh, no. Don't do it. Dimensions 00:32:09.730 --> 00:32:11.869 of Time would be the bigger story, wouldn't it, 00:32:11.869 --> 00:32:14.450 given the rights issues with that. Oh, yeah. 00:32:14.869 --> 00:32:17.609 That would be pretty exciting to have a lost 00:32:17.609 --> 00:32:20.829 story returned to the archive. Just Russell T. 00:32:20.849 --> 00:32:22.930 Davis going, well, I did say all of the back 00:32:22.930 --> 00:32:28.049 catalogue. So Dimensions of Time returns to iPlayer 00:32:28.049 --> 00:32:33.009 before an unearthly child. Yes. As it should 00:32:33.009 --> 00:32:37.440 be. No, no, not as it should be. Anyway, yeah, 00:32:37.539 --> 00:32:40.299 the whole Mrs. Flood thing is very interesting 00:32:40.299 --> 00:32:43.839 and I genuinely can't believe that I've sort 00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:47.299 of semi -seriously discussed the Rani on a podcast 00:32:47.299 --> 00:32:50.779 that anybody can listen to as part of this thing 00:32:50.779 --> 00:32:53.039 because it's just so damn ridiculous. It's going 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:55.779 to be some sort of reveal, but some sort of thing 00:32:55.779 --> 00:32:57.740 that's meant to make us go, oh, it was them all 00:32:57.740 --> 00:33:00.920 along. But I hope it's something like it's not 00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:05.640 the Rani or Davros. I hope it's like... I think 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:07.559 the compromise is something like it's the Doctor's 00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:11.079 mother or it's like someone of personal significance 00:33:11.079 --> 00:33:15.160 to the Doctor's history and it tells, it furthers 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:18.380 the story about who the Doctor is and where they've 00:33:18.380 --> 00:33:20.259 come from and these threads about the timeless 00:33:20.259 --> 00:33:23.099 child that have been dropped in over the last 00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:27.559 13 episodes. That could potentially work for 00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:30.779 me. There's other sort of relatively obscure 00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:34.599 villains that I'd rather it be. be like i mentioned 00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:40.160 i think it was after um after the giggle i think 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:42.440 it was in the like the sort of episode we did 00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.339 covering that i mentioned that if we're doing 00:33:45.339 --> 00:33:48.900 gods and if we're doing you know the pantheon 00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:52.240 and all that kind of thing let's do fenric like 00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.319 fenric is an actual god that the seventh thought 00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:58.440 to battle you know interesting character wasn't 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:02.299 You know, let's do something with that. And I 00:34:02.299 --> 00:34:04.220 still think that that would be a very interesting, 00:34:04.339 --> 00:34:06.099 you know, big finish brought about Fenric. And 00:34:06.099 --> 00:34:09.280 it was the culmination of an absolutely fantastic 00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:12.960 storyline and an absolutely fantastic storyline 00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:15.960 that's not too different to the approach the 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.920 TV series is taking now. Yeah, I feel like Fenric 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.719 should be mentioned or pop up at some point if 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:25.340 they're doing a big arc about gods and monsters. 00:34:25.420 --> 00:34:32.179 But Mrs. Flood. I don't even know if she feels 00:34:32.179 --> 00:34:35.019 like she's going to be revealed as a straight 00:34:35.019 --> 00:34:37.460 -up villain to me. It feels like she could be 00:34:37.460 --> 00:34:41.980 some super powerful force that is for some reason 00:34:41.980 --> 00:34:44.860 in opposition with the Doctor or in conflict 00:34:44.860 --> 00:34:48.239 with the Doctor over something, but not an out 00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:53.840 -and -out scenery -chewing villain. They both 00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.289 want to stop the big bad butt. She's more ends 00:34:57.289 --> 00:34:59.510 justify the means, that kind of thing. Yeah, 00:34:59.510 --> 00:35:03.849 something like that. Yeah, I think that's how 00:35:03.849 --> 00:35:06.010 I would like, at this point, I think that's how 00:35:06.010 --> 00:35:09.269 it would like to turn out. But I think that there's 00:35:09.269 --> 00:35:12.449 going to be something, there's going to be some 00:35:12.449 --> 00:35:15.230 kind of twist or whatever that sort of we didn't 00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:18.809 see coming. At the end. At the end. I was trying 00:35:18.809 --> 00:35:24.559 to avoid saying that. Okay, well, let's switch 00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:27.219 back to the robot revolution and let's talk about 00:35:27.219 --> 00:35:29.119 the Doctor in the episode. We've talked quite 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:30.900 a bit about Belinda. We've not really talked 00:35:30.900 --> 00:35:35.099 about the Doctor. Can't say I noticed any sort 00:35:35.099 --> 00:35:39.539 of significant changes between the Doctor we've 00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:41.699 seen before and the Doctor we've got here. And 00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:46.199 I mention this because I have... often argued, 00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:48.019 it's not always the case, but I've often argued 00:35:48.019 --> 00:35:51.820 that a new Doctor's first series is their weakest 00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:57.280 and we see some fairly significant level of performance 00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:59.679 change between the first and second seasons. 00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:04.300 I think this is the case with most Doctors. Whereas 00:36:04.300 --> 00:36:08.019 this seemed to just be picking up where we were 00:36:08.019 --> 00:36:12.679 before. We've still got a very emotional Doctor, 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.050 we've still got... you know, he's still quite 00:36:15.050 --> 00:36:17.929 excitable. I quite like his enthusiasm around, 00:36:18.110 --> 00:36:20.150 okay, Belinda, you're my new companion now, let's 00:36:20.150 --> 00:36:22.710 go traveling. And she's like, no, not doing that. 00:36:22.889 --> 00:36:26.349 And sort of in his enthusiasm, he has, he's sort 00:36:26.349 --> 00:36:28.309 of crossed a couple of lines. He's crossed a 00:36:28.309 --> 00:36:32.010 couple of boundaries. And I quite liked him getting 00:36:32.010 --> 00:36:34.269 the telling off about the DNA test and that kind 00:36:34.269 --> 00:36:38.489 of thing. So maybe, yeah, a slightly sort of 00:36:38.489 --> 00:36:43.929 more alien. version of this Doctor, perhaps one 00:36:43.929 --> 00:36:48.710 that crosses a line a little bit more, but it 00:36:48.710 --> 00:36:50.789 was very similar. The performance was very much 00:36:50.789 --> 00:36:52.929 the same, I think. Not that I'm complaining. 00:36:53.090 --> 00:36:56.150 I really, really enjoyed Shooty's performance 00:36:56.150 --> 00:36:59.349 of the Doctor, and I do think that he has more 00:36:59.349 --> 00:37:03.570 or less got it right since day one. But yeah, 00:37:03.769 --> 00:37:07.989 I felt as though the tears were earned this time. 00:37:08.070 --> 00:37:09.829 I felt as though it actually worked with the 00:37:09.829 --> 00:37:13.489 episode. you know the doctor had just lost like 00:37:13.489 --> 00:37:17.250 i say someone who's hinted at being sort of a 00:37:17.250 --> 00:37:20.769 pseudo companion for the six months leading up 00:37:20.769 --> 00:37:22.929 to the events there it's pretty telegraphed it 00:37:22.929 --> 00:37:25.590 was like very much like you know uh three days 00:37:25.590 --> 00:37:29.130 away from retirement kind of moment when she 00:37:29.130 --> 00:37:31.710 says like just before she dies when she talks 00:37:31.710 --> 00:37:35.469 about going off with him in the tardis afterwards 00:37:35.469 --> 00:37:41.099 yeah But the bit you mentioned where he gets 00:37:41.099 --> 00:37:44.460 told off, that for me was the newest, most interesting 00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:49.880 bit for the Doctor's character. And it kind of 00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:52.800 built a bit on... Because I think we saw a very 00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:54.619 different side to him in that moment in Joy to 00:37:54.619 --> 00:37:57.719 the World when he's... It's almost that Curse 00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:01.219 of Fenric moment when he's pushing Joy and deliberately 00:38:01.219 --> 00:38:06.619 upsetting her and provoking emotions in her. 00:38:07.730 --> 00:38:10.869 And then in this scene, in this episode where 00:38:10.869 --> 00:38:14.570 Belinda challenges him or tells him off about 00:38:14.570 --> 00:38:19.210 the DNA sample, on the surface he apologises, 00:38:19.230 --> 00:38:22.010 but actually from both of them, I think there's 00:38:22.010 --> 00:38:25.710 really, really interesting stuff going on under 00:38:25.710 --> 00:38:28.570 the surface in both of their performances where 00:38:28.570 --> 00:38:30.949 he's saying sorry, but there's something in his 00:38:30.949 --> 00:38:33.010 eyes and just something about the body language 00:38:33.010 --> 00:38:36.840 that tells me, oh, he's a bit... he's a bit thrown 00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:40.179 or even a bit pissed off about about his his 00:38:40.179 --> 00:38:43.860 charm not working on uh a young female companion 00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:47.139 in the way that it normally does and i don't 00:38:47.139 --> 00:38:48.780 know there's something between them that goes 00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:51.239 beyond like you've done something wrong okay 00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:54.559 i've apologized for it and like from her size 00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:59.500 when he apologized i don't know if she i don't 00:38:59.500 --> 00:39:02.039 think i don't think she's she completely trusts 00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:06.309 it or trusts him And I'm really curious how they 00:39:06.309 --> 00:39:11.030 get from this point of being a bit like this 00:39:11.030 --> 00:39:14.030 point in their relationship to where they are 00:39:14.030 --> 00:39:16.429 in Lux in the next episode, because from the 00:39:16.429 --> 00:39:19.550 little clips we've seen, they seem really like 00:39:19.550 --> 00:39:24.070 on good terms. Are we going to get another six 00:39:24.070 --> 00:39:27.449 month time jump where they've been traveling 00:39:27.449 --> 00:39:29.789 around the universe for six months? But anyway, 00:39:29.829 --> 00:39:32.349 in terms of. The Doctor's character. I thought 00:39:32.349 --> 00:39:36.829 that was really, really interesting. And it's 00:39:36.829 --> 00:39:38.530 an interesting comparison with the main villain 00:39:38.530 --> 00:39:42.090 of this episode because there's the whole incels 00:39:42.090 --> 00:39:46.590 thing, which I think works for what it is, but 00:39:46.590 --> 00:39:49.110 it's not the most subtle approach to that subject. 00:39:49.889 --> 00:39:53.110 And the villain's performance, both in his pre 00:39:53.110 --> 00:39:57.570 -robot and post -robot form, neither of those, 00:39:57.670 --> 00:40:01.239 I think, are the most subtle. performances um 00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:05.320 but then you have that yeah that was the most 00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:07.059 interesting scene of the whole episode for me 00:40:07.059 --> 00:40:11.179 that that moment at the end where there's it 00:40:11.179 --> 00:40:13.159 is really interesting and layered like what's 00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:15.000 going on between the doctor and his companion 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.400 and again so different from the typical template 00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:24.960 from like rose or even further back where the 00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:26.659 two of them instantly get on together and they 00:40:26.659 --> 00:40:29.190 fly off and just straight away having adventures. 00:40:31.789 --> 00:40:36.070 Yeah, I think it's good to have that sort of, 00:40:36.070 --> 00:40:39.909 that level of doubt in a companion. And I do 00:40:39.909 --> 00:40:41.750 hope that, you know, the Doctor does sort of 00:40:41.750 --> 00:40:45.329 get challenged in a similar way as the series 00:40:45.329 --> 00:40:48.730 goes on. You know, I hope this does become not 00:40:48.730 --> 00:40:51.349 an overriding thing, but, you know, we've done 00:40:51.349 --> 00:40:55.170 Is the Doctor a Good Man before to various levels 00:40:55.170 --> 00:40:58.800 of effectiveness. We've had the Doctor travelling 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:01.099 with people that he's not necessarily wanted 00:41:01.099 --> 00:41:03.320 to travel with. He took the Tenth Doctor a little 00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:08.460 while to warm to Martha. But this is the first 00:41:08.460 --> 00:41:13.300 time certainly New Who has kind of done a companion 00:41:13.300 --> 00:41:15.940 that doesn't particularly want to be there. And 00:41:15.940 --> 00:41:20.840 it's good. I'm glad we're exploring that. It 00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:23.099 obviously all ties into part of the storyline 00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:26.159 and that kind of thing. There's a reason he can't 00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:29.289 get a home. which is a mystery that will no doubt 00:41:29.289 --> 00:41:36.949 be solved as we go on. But it's also an opportunity, 00:41:36.949 --> 00:41:39.530 and I kind of hope we take the opportunity. Like 00:41:39.530 --> 00:41:41.550 I say, I hope it doesn't sort of dominate an 00:41:41.550 --> 00:41:43.469 entire episode or something like that, but I 00:41:43.469 --> 00:41:46.269 hope there is just that moment of the Doctor 00:41:46.269 --> 00:41:50.150 being called out again, because it does certainly 00:41:50.150 --> 00:41:55.539 seem that this Doctor is driven by... slightly 00:41:55.539 --> 00:41:58.039 childish enthusiasm, an immature enthusiasm, 00:41:58.260 --> 00:42:03.480 let's say. And that's the sort of flaw that's 00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:06.000 built into the character and therefore what we 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.099 should be exploring. And the opportunity for 00:42:08.099 --> 00:42:13.679 that is now clearly set up. Also the planet of 00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:17.199 the incels thing, which I liked. I liked that 00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:19.719 that's sort of where the episode came from and 00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:25.719 where the villain came from. But I don't think 00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:27.920 we needed the line. I think the Planet of the 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.619 Incels line was just a little bit too much. Like, 00:42:30.619 --> 00:42:33.400 we'd all got it. Everyone watching it had completely 00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:37.840 got it. And that line just felt a little bit 00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:40.980 too sledgehammery, a little bit too unnatural. 00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:43.239 It's a good idea. You know, it's a really good 00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:45.800 idea. It's absolutely something that Doctor Who 00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:51.320 should be exploring in 2025. But, yeah, I just 00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:55.300 felt as though... there was a level of subtlety 00:42:55.300 --> 00:42:58.739 that could have been used there that wasn't. 00:42:58.739 --> 00:43:01.820 And it's kind of, we've used that subtlety or 00:43:01.820 --> 00:43:03.920 will use that subtlety in the TARDIS five minutes 00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:06.360 later. So can we not use that subtlety again 00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:08.820 beforehand? I don't know. It's fairly on the 00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:12.800 nose, but I feel like it's partly, well, there's 00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:18.480 a couple of things like, you know, whatever the 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:20.619 distribution of the audience is these days. So 00:43:20.619 --> 00:43:23.139 Doctor Who is in theory a show for like a very, 00:43:23.449 --> 00:43:26.389 broad range of people so there might be that 00:43:26.389 --> 00:43:30.250 element of yeah we we all got it but would you 00:43:30.250 --> 00:43:32.849 know is there those you know to the young teenage 00:43:32.849 --> 00:43:36.590 audience or like this is that group in between 00:43:36.590 --> 00:43:38.250 where it does need to be spilled spelled out 00:43:38.250 --> 00:43:40.670 a little bit more um maybe not you know maybe 00:43:40.670 --> 00:43:42.949 they are more than capable of getting it without 00:43:42.949 --> 00:43:46.110 it being spelled out but also i think it's it's 00:43:46.110 --> 00:43:49.690 partly russell t davis's style he's he's really 00:43:49.690 --> 00:43:53.639 really good with character and dialogue i think 00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:56.320 but he does also have like quite an on -the -nose 00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:59.519 style to like um even in his more serious dramas 00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:01.800 you'll have like moments where things are kind 00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:04.320 of just spelled out in in black and white in 00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.420 that way but then you also have like sort of 00:44:07.420 --> 00:44:09.940 interesting character work and stories going 00:44:09.940 --> 00:44:16.579 on around it yeah and it's i guess so again you 00:44:16.579 --> 00:44:19.599 know it's not something i can specifically aim 00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:21.099 at this episode. It's something that happens 00:44:21.099 --> 00:44:22.860 a lot and it's something that other writers do. 00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:27.940 I just thought maybe, you know, there was room 00:44:27.940 --> 00:44:31.159 for more clearly signposted subtext than the 00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:36.460 actual, the line, as it were. But, you know, 00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:38.420 it certainly didn't stop me from enjoying the 00:44:38.420 --> 00:44:41.639 episode. And like I say, I thought it was a really 00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:44.639 interesting direction to go and the kind of direction 00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:48.219 Doctor Who should be going. um more significantly 00:44:48.219 --> 00:44:51.280 which is you know what what the cast have said 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:54.500 is what russell t davis has said so everyone 00:44:54.500 --> 00:45:00.880 seems to be on the same page at least um so we've 00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:03.719 we've kind of we've kind of had a few things 00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:06.460 left hanging obviously we've mentioned belinda 00:45:06.460 --> 00:45:10.139 wanting to get home um and not being able to 00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:11.940 but there was that sort of last shot as well 00:45:11.940 --> 00:45:15.949 that kind of heavily implied that the Earth had 00:45:15.949 --> 00:45:19.150 been destroyed because we've got an Eiffel Tower 00:45:19.150 --> 00:45:21.989 and the Statue of Liberty floating next to each 00:45:21.989 --> 00:45:27.409 other in space. What are the odds? So that's 00:45:27.409 --> 00:45:31.409 kind of obviously what the big hook of this series 00:45:31.409 --> 00:45:34.190 is going to be. By the end of Episode 8, we're 00:45:34.190 --> 00:45:36.650 going to find out how the Earth didn't get destroyed 00:45:36.650 --> 00:45:40.050 or how it didn't then got rebooted. We've done 00:45:40.050 --> 00:45:41.909 this before. We've definitely done this before. 00:45:44.579 --> 00:45:48.199 But it's, I don't know, is it a good setup? Is 00:45:48.199 --> 00:45:52.739 it a good mystery? We've had the Earth gets destroyed 00:45:52.739 --> 00:45:56.960 on this specific date before a few times, and 00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:59.679 I'm just kind of thinking, is that where we're 00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:02.300 going again? Is that indeed where we're going? 00:46:02.420 --> 00:46:06.960 Because the name of the final episode is the 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:12.250 reality war, something like that. And you just 00:46:12.250 --> 00:46:16.269 sort of think, well, is that what we're approaching? 00:46:16.590 --> 00:46:18.889 Are we, the Doctor, slipped into another reality 00:46:18.889 --> 00:46:22.949 here or all that kind of thing? Feels a bit MCU. 00:46:23.889 --> 00:46:26.170 Let's get that one out of the way nice and quickly. 00:46:26.389 --> 00:46:28.849 It feels like it's doing what the MCU's been 00:46:28.849 --> 00:46:32.030 doing for the last few years. But Doctor Who's 00:46:32.030 --> 00:46:34.489 going to be doing it in eight episodes. Even 00:46:34.489 --> 00:46:37.869 down to the titles of the two final episodes. 00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:44.300 Or is it Wish? What's the second last one? Called 00:46:44.300 --> 00:46:48.820 Wish World. And then The Reality War. So, yeah, 00:46:48.860 --> 00:46:50.840 when I heard those titles, that immediately made 00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:56.980 me think of Battle World and Infinity War and 00:46:56.980 --> 00:47:00.940 Secret Wars. So, yeah, it's even sort of aping 00:47:00.940 --> 00:47:03.659 that Marvel style of what you call the stories. 00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:09.929 But I think, like, even before... Was it... When 00:47:09.929 --> 00:47:14.329 was it? I remember at some point before this 00:47:14.329 --> 00:47:17.510 recent comeback, Russell Davis was talking about 00:47:17.510 --> 00:47:20.889 the MCU and how that's what Doctor Who should 00:47:20.889 --> 00:47:25.050 mimic in terms of different franchises and spin 00:47:25.050 --> 00:47:28.929 -offs and having a whole universe. We've had 00:47:28.929 --> 00:47:31.389 that branding for this last couple of years, 00:47:31.429 --> 00:47:33.369 the Who -niverse, which seems very much about 00:47:33.369 --> 00:47:37.050 that, about trying to move. Doctor Who towards 00:47:37.050 --> 00:47:43.650 this big interconnected universe and there's 00:47:43.650 --> 00:47:48.949 bits of that that I like but like yeah it should 00:47:48.949 --> 00:47:52.349 also not just ape something else that is successful 00:47:52.349 --> 00:47:56.510 like it should I think also just carry on doing 00:47:56.510 --> 00:48:01.489 its own thing to an extent like the the Who universe 00:48:01.489 --> 00:48:06.300 that we had with Doctor Who Sarah Jane and Torchwood 00:48:06.300 --> 00:48:11.199 that for me was kind of the ideal level of franchise 00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:14.300 -iness for Doctor Who where you've got like the 00:48:14.300 --> 00:48:17.800 three different shows aimed at different demographics 00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:22.619 and each each having a distinct tone um I don't 00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:25.860 know if we want to go even you know even if like 00:48:25.860 --> 00:48:28.940 budget and production weren't an issue I don't 00:48:28.940 --> 00:48:30.840 think you want to go much further than that in 00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:34.079 expanding out loads of other spin -off shows 00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:40.159 and bits and pieces. And we have still got Big 00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:43.440 Finish as well, which, you know, Big Finish has 00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:47.599 kind of had that box ticked for a good 15 years 00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:50.119 now. You know, it's been regularly producing 00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:56.059 so many spin -offs per month. And that might 00:48:56.059 --> 00:48:59.760 be why we're sort of less excited about Sutec 00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:05.340 or the Rani on TV is because... We've seen pretty 00:49:05.340 --> 00:49:08.219 much every other, you know, it's like every other 00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:11.599 month there'll be some big 70s villain coming 00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:15.239 back in a book set. But we've had Bilal come 00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:21.000 back. You know, it's, it has, yeah, it feels 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:27.059 as though as a, sort of in quotation marks, this 00:49:27.059 --> 00:49:29.460 is, I guess, as an old school Doctor Who fan, 00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:33.280 I feel very, very... very well catered for and 00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:36.380 have done for a very, very long time because 00:49:36.380 --> 00:49:38.340 of not just Big Finish, you know, there's books 00:49:38.340 --> 00:49:40.159 as well and there's comics and all that kind 00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:44.119 of thing. And I haven't missed the Daleks on 00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:48.460 TV at all because I've had so much of them on 00:49:48.460 --> 00:49:52.260 audio that I haven't even noticed their absence 00:49:52.260 --> 00:49:58.420 last year and this year so far. Yeah, I do hope 00:49:58.420 --> 00:50:00.449 Shooter gets to meet them. I think it would be 00:50:00.449 --> 00:50:02.769 a real shame. Just for the sake, yeah, for ticking 00:50:02.769 --> 00:50:08.929 off the list. Every doctor should meet Daleks, 00:50:09.070 --> 00:50:12.449 should meet Cybermen, should meet the Master, 00:50:12.469 --> 00:50:14.730 arguably. And I know there's exceptions, but 00:50:14.730 --> 00:50:20.429 that feels like three reasonable boxes to want 00:50:20.429 --> 00:50:26.969 to have ticked off. But, you know, your mileage 00:50:26.969 --> 00:50:29.949 may vary on that. There's definitely a sense 00:50:29.949 --> 00:50:34.409 of Dalek fatigue, I think. Yeah, even just on 00:50:34.409 --> 00:50:37.849 TV, and then if you take all of the audios into 00:50:37.849 --> 00:50:42.389 account, there must be in the hundreds now of 00:50:42.389 --> 00:50:46.590 stories, if you count each episode of Dalek Empire 00:50:46.590 --> 00:50:49.809 and all of those. Yeah. Must be well over 100 00:50:49.809 --> 00:50:54.849 Dalek stories. Oh, yeah, must be, easily. But 00:50:54.849 --> 00:50:57.789 that's the nature of it. They're a fantastic 00:50:57.789 --> 00:51:00.329 creation and they are a significant part of the 00:51:00.329 --> 00:51:03.809 Who universe. But I'm quite happy for the TV 00:51:03.809 --> 00:51:06.949 to spend a few years exploring other corners 00:51:06.949 --> 00:51:10.929 and not necessarily just bumping into them again. 00:51:11.550 --> 00:51:14.309 So, yeah, like I say, I hope Shooter gets to 00:51:14.309 --> 00:51:16.250 meet them. I hope they do pop up at some point. 00:51:16.710 --> 00:51:21.449 But I'm not sort of sat here going, oh, I really 00:51:21.449 --> 00:51:23.389 want the Daleks back now. I'm really, really 00:51:23.389 --> 00:51:27.670 not. But, you know, Russell T Davies has said 00:51:27.670 --> 00:51:30.489 there's no Daleks this series, just like he did 00:51:30.489 --> 00:51:36.550 with series two. So, yeah, which I think is probably 00:51:36.550 --> 00:51:39.630 a good point to end on. So, yeah, Robot Revolution. 00:51:39.849 --> 00:51:42.090 I thought it was great. I thought it was a really, 00:51:42.130 --> 00:51:44.429 really strong intro. It's given us plenty to 00:51:44.429 --> 00:51:47.949 talk about and speculate about. It's done a really 00:51:47.949 --> 00:51:52.260 good job of sort of establishing Belinda. And 00:51:52.260 --> 00:51:54.840 Belinda and the Doctor's dynamic as well, I think. 00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:57.320 And I hope it does get picked up on. I hope it 00:51:57.320 --> 00:52:00.099 is something that's explored further. I hope 00:52:00.099 --> 00:52:05.019 that we don't get sidetracked with too many other 00:52:05.019 --> 00:52:07.559 things that push out that story because I want 00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:10.159 that to be the focus of these eight episodes 00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:13.079 right till the end. Those two lead characters 00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:16.980 and what's going on with them and anything that's 00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:20.360 brought in as a surprise or a twist is fine. 00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:25.619 as long as it furthers that main character -based 00:52:25.619 --> 00:52:28.880 story rather than just being there for a shock 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:33.320 or a surprise. So that's my hope for this season. 00:52:33.619 --> 00:52:37.980 Yeah, it's got to earn its place, I guess. But, 00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:40.639 you know, I hope we're sat here in six weeks' 00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:44.679 time before the finale speculating about things 00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:47.099 that we're genuinely excited about. And, you 00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:49.159 know, if there has been a twist, you know, if 00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:52.460 there is some big... cliffhanger reveal at the 00:52:52.460 --> 00:52:55.280 end of Wishworld I really do hope it's earned 00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:58.679 I hope it's justified and I hope it's not just 00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:01.800 the Rani was the next character on our tick list 00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:05.519 of who should be brought back we'll see you never 00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.400 know it could be that we're talking about how 00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:10.699 well done it was that the Rani has been brought 00:53:10.699 --> 00:53:15.280 back well the Rani is working with Omega in the 00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:18.719 finale but it sounds like the big twist will 00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:21.449 come at the From what I can work out, at the 00:53:21.449 --> 00:53:25.050 end of episode six, and that will lead us into 00:53:25.050 --> 00:53:28.090 the last two episodes. Because it was episodes, 00:53:28.230 --> 00:53:32.130 I think, three and six that Russell T Davies 00:53:32.130 --> 00:53:35.210 said, stay off social media or watch those ones 00:53:35.210 --> 00:53:40.110 as soon as you can. Yeah. So, yeah, I feel like 00:53:40.110 --> 00:53:41.889 something big is going to happen right at the 00:53:41.889 --> 00:53:45.409 end of episode six. Yeah, just something that 00:53:45.409 --> 00:53:49.079 throws us into the finale. Yeah. Which would 00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:51.199 be good because I enjoyed last year's finale, 00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:55.800 but it definitely, it spent a bit of time treading 00:53:55.800 --> 00:53:58.900 ground, like just getting up to that cliffhanger 00:53:58.900 --> 00:54:00.760 reveal. Let's get that out of the way early. 00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:04.800 Yeah, because the second half was quite, the 00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:06.960 second half in that destroyed universe was quite 00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.780 compressed and yeah, it felt like we could have 00:54:09.780 --> 00:54:14.860 had more space for that side of the story. Yeah, 00:54:14.900 --> 00:54:18.010 definitely. Well, we will leave it there, but 00:54:18.010 --> 00:54:20.670 Strong starts the series, and I'm looking forward 00:54:20.670 --> 00:54:25.329 to see where it goes next, definitely. Okay, 00:54:26.150 --> 00:54:27.789 well, thanks very much for joining me, Mansour. 00:54:27.889 --> 00:54:30.650 That was The Robot Revolution, and here's to 00:54:30.650 --> 00:54:33.610 seven more episodes over the next seven weeks. 00:54:33.769 --> 00:54:37.070 Roll them on. We'll be back to spodcast about 00:54:37.070 --> 00:54:39.670 all of them. So thank you for listening, and 00:54:39.670 --> 00:54:40.409 goodbye now.