You're listening to a podcast of spurious morality.
Hello and welcome to a podcast of Spurious Morality.
I'm Johnston and with me this week I have Connor.
Hello. And we are joined by a brand new Spodcaster.
Welcome to your first episode, Will. Hello there.
Great, great to have you join us. We've kind
of been planning you entering the Spodcastverse
for probably the best part of a year now, but
it's taken us this long to kind of get to this
episode. And it's going to be a good episode,
I think. So we're going to have a look at the
11th Doctor Chronicles, but the ones with Valerie.
So it's kind of four sets that make up a very
coherent series. I think some people refer to
it as sort of Series 7B or 7AB or 7A .5 or whatever.
I think the official one is 7V. 7V, we'll go
with that. Because when I think about it, 7B
is like the actual second half of Series 7 with
Clara in it, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So strong
start. But yeah, we're looking at 7B. We'll go
with that. I like 7B. So we're looking at these
four sets plus an extra episode that was released
in the middle. And we're going to go through
them an episode at a time. There's a lot of love
for this run. I think it's sort of very notable
for quite a few things. It is very much in the
style of an 11th Doctor series, that sort of
latter 11th Doctor when Moffat got a bit experimental
with the format, we're going to say that, I'm
not busy with Sherlock, and sort of started to
split the series and see what could be done and
how the Christmas special could work in the middle
and all that kind of thing. It's also notable
for having some younger, big Finnish writers,
you know, developing younger talent, that kind
of thing. So I think there's quite a lot to discuss
here. What I was going to say on that point was
that the Doctor Chronicles was a range that I
wasn't really looking at, just because I've already
got so much of a backlog. Don't tell anyone,
but I haven't even listened to Doom Coalition
yet, so, you know. And when they sort of said,
you know, Jacob Dudman's leaving and we're going
to do a full 11th Doctor series with a new companion,
that did interest me. And then you start hearing
reviews from that first set and it really becomes,
you think like, OK, I'm going to give this a
go. And in the end, I really liked it. Yeah,
I'm one of those people that sort of championed
this series. Yeah, I have to admit, the Chronicles
have never particularly been my favourite, but...
I got this on release. I had this pre -ordered,
so I must have sort of looked at it beforehand
and gone, no, there's something about this, you
know, new companion and four box sets that make
up a series. It definitely caught my attention.
I think the strongest thing this series has going
for it is it sets out to be a series rather than
a collection of box sets, and I think that's
a trap that Big Finish can fall into sometimes.
The closest analogue to it is probably the likes
of Doom Coalition and Stranded and those other
ones. Sort of multi -box set story arcs. So it
felt really good to get something that was deliberately
set out to tell or to match as closely as possible
the format of Doctor Who on TV, which Big Finish
doesn't always do. I think it's fair to say that
sometimes would stick more to like... If someone's
buying this box set, that has to be a self -contained
set. That seems to be the way they've gone more
recently, and this stood out for that reason.
So that's the strongest thing it has going for
it. The second strongest thing being two fantastic
lead performances. I'm not the biggest fan of
the 11th Doctor in the whole world. I wouldn't
rank him among my favourite Doctors, but to my
ears, Jacob Dudman, is nearly completely indistinguishable
from Matt Smith. He's a really good... It's a
really good impression and it's a really good
performance as well. You can tell that he's studied
the role and I think he's broadly making the
choices that Matt Smith would make in these stories.
And then you've got Safiya Inghar as well as
Valerie and they're absolutely fantastic. I think
it's fair to say that in a lot of places they
carry this series. just with the performance
they've put in throughout it. Yeah, absolutely.
This is a series that absolutely rests on its
leads and considering neither of its leads have
been in Telly Doctor Who, Big Finish is one of
their biggest selling points is, well, we've
got Peter Davison, we've got Tom Baker, we've
got David Tennant. They've not got the kind of
star power to push this one forward. automatically
we are kind of relying on storytelling and format
and that kind of thing. And I'm going to say
up front, I think it's an absolute success. I've
really, really enjoyed re -listening to this
and that kind of thing. I'm going to be a bit
mean and I'm going to see if we can pick a favourite
story from the run each, which I think is a bit
of a challenge because there's some very, very
good stories in there. Do you want to have a
go first, Connor? It's actually not a difficult
pick. Conversion Therapy. It's not even called
Conversion Therapy. It's Sins of the Flesh, but
in my head it's called Conversion Therapy. Sins
of the Flesh from, I think it's the third box
set, with the Cybermen. I think it's my standout
one. I don't think there's anything that fills
me with more anger in real life than Conversion
Therapy. Doctor Who doing a very, it's not a
very subtle takedown of it. It's quite, it's
a bit on the nose with, you know, conversion
Cybermen. That sort of, you know, follows. But
I think it's fantastic. I'm a sucker for the
Cybermen anyway. So I would very happily pick
out Sins of the Flesh from box set three. Yeah,
it's a very, very good episode and a very good
use of the Cybermen, absolutely. What about you,
Will? So that's an excellent choice from Connor.
I think I'd go for Broken Hearts, the extra one
in the middle. I just found it to be just such
a brilliant character piece. Actually, I guess
two sets of two -handers that really delved into...
you know, the relationship between the Doctor
and Valerie, while also telling this side story
about Lionel and Augustus. And I think really
does dive down into who the 11th Doctor is in
quite a believable way. I think Lisa McMullan
pulled that off very well. And yeah, overall,
there are loads of great episodes in this, but
that really stood out to me as the absolute best.
I think as well... Jacob Dubman and Safir Ingar
are both excellent sort of as Connor has already
said they're great throughout and Safir Ingar
especially is an incredible find by Big Finish
I know they've done other stuff as well I'm not
saying that this is their first thing but they
really do an incredible job but in this episode
especially they really bring it and yeah I just
think overall just a fantastic episode yeah it's
Considering there's only the two of them in it,
but there's obviously more in the way of characters,
it's great, just full of wonderful performances.
You see, I do struggle to pick a favourite from
this because I really, really like the first
set. I really like that sort of just starting
out, new Doctor Companion. sort of partnership
stuff. So, like, I think The Inheritance is an
absolutely fantastic companion introduction story.
You know, the end is really good. I really like
the stuff with the time spiders. It's just a
good sort of future spacey adventure. Since the
Flesh is excellent. All's Fair is very good.
And I'm a huge fan of the finale as well. And
I do really like Dalek's Victorious, which is
kind of the utopia of this set. It's not quite
the finale. It's linked to it. Is it a three
-parter? Is it a two -parter type thing? But
I love how the whole thing just kind of builds
up and builds up and builds up until basically
the Doctor has his, oh my God, I'm going to have
to be the War Doctor again moment. And it's a
great cliffhanger, but you can just feel like
everything going wrong for the Doctor throughout
the episode. And it's a wonderful piece of, you
know, a story is still told, but the tension
just builds up and it kind of rips out the rug
from underneath you. And the Doctor kind of confronts
what he became in the Time War in a much better
way than a lot of stuff that is set in the Time
War, I have to admit. I realise I've just named
like half of the entire series. But I'm going
with Dalek's Victorious. Yeah, I really like
Dalek's Victorious. Yeah, I like the sort of
two -part finale that comes after it, but just
that little... Utopia -style build -up episode
in Daleks Victorious I think works incredibly
well. And I'd say Utopia was my favourite part
of those three episodes in Series 3. So it kind
of does a similar job and does it very, very
well. Let's get going then. Let's dive in. So
as we have said, the first episode is The Inheritance.
This introduces Valerie as the companion and...
takes the sort of not particularly traditional
step of killing Valerie's mum. It's a pretty
brutal start for the character and obviously
something that gets picked up in later episodes,
sort of as an emotional tug. But I really like
sort of the setup of this. You know, we've got
the bad capitalists, we've got the idea of, is
it the Dorinthian blight? Am I saying that correctly?
Which floats up. again, later in the series,
and, you know, is also a significant part of
the storyline. We're introduced to this version
of the future that Valerie is from. It's sort
of not quite the sort of thing that we've ever
seen in Doctor Who before in terms of the settings.
So it's good. There's definitely a lot of, you
know, capitalism bad stuff going on, but a lot
of very good Doctor Who does kind of hinge on
capitalism bad. So Connor, talk to us about The
Inheritance. Yes, it's a really strong start.
I like that it sort of throws you straight in.
And I actually like as well, Valerie's already
being quite proactive. It's not the case that
her, she's already trying to research the blight
when the Doctor meets her. And it's not a case
that Companion meets Doctor and is drawn into
her world. It's the Doctor and Valerie's worlds.
meet i think that's quite cool um you you have
the sort of obligatory new who companion uh their
mother is there um and she's a great character
as well i really like her relationship with valerie
um and it is quite gutting whenever they do ultimately
um kill her off um so that's really really effective
that it builds up that relationship really easily
It doesn't take too long for them to get to the
stage where this is a really believable mother
-daughter duo. And then there's proper weight
at the end whenever Valerie's mourning her death.
So I think that's a real credit to them to be
able to do that. You have the evil capitalists,
as you say. I like the twist that you get. Valerie
obviously thinks this is the whole planet. The
doctor thinks it's affecting the whole planet.
And then they discover that it's just been confined
to one rig. So that's a nice twist. That's really
effective. I don't know how much I buy the whole
it's a virus that affects your money. You die
by having a lot of money. That's an idea. It's
the sort of idea Doctor Who does quite a lot.
I do prefer slightly more grounded stuff. That's
a little bit fantastical. So that's not entirely
to my tastes, but not everything has to be. As
I said, it's broadly a very good story. The focus
is very much on Valerie and her mum, as it should
be, and that's the most important thing. Yeah,
I think it finds the balance quite nicely between
sort of introducing Valerie and, you know, that
relationship with her mum and taking it away
and telling a pretty solid story as well. It
does put me in mind of sort of good opening episodes,
Bells of St John, Rose, that kind of thing. um
smith and jones basically good companion introductions
um and i feel as though i should mention partners
in crime because i feel as though i've ignored
it by not mentioning it um will what about you
yeah i found the inheritance to be the inheritance
to be a very confident opener i think it started
out on the right foot for the series uh immediately
um one thing that is apparent in this, that I
guess I'd say here as opposed to beating all
time, is that it becomes very clear that a lot
of the writers at Big Finish have been sort of
saving up their very Moffat -y dialogue. I think
there's some really good stuff in this, like
the Doctor referring to the bomb as Mr. Bomb
and things like that, and that whole cold open
of I'm the Doctor and this is a bomb, very of
its era, which you find throughout this series.
I think it launches Valerie very well as someone
who's very active and very caring. And it presents
just a great mystery, I suppose, with what's
going on with this virus. And gradually, you
know, we see this unfold. And I think it presents
a very sort of interesting narrative throughout.
And, yeah, you've got Arabella Hendricks, who
I think is a good villain. I think that she,
you know, the part where, you know, everyone,
people start to die and she's when the doctor
reveals. what that is that it is the dorinthian
blight and she organizes a buy to live sale is
uh suitably mustache twirlingly evil for this
story i think and overall i just i felt the story
just lived along very nicely and i liked meeting
all these new characters uh and it really just
set up the rest of the series really well yeah
Yeah, absolutely. Nice, nice, strong opener.
And I think that, I mean, with this, this is
something that we're going to see throughout
the whole series, really. It is, as we've all
said, sort of very, very infitting with the era.
But at the same time, it is doing different stuff.
Like this is not a remake of The Bells of St.
John. This is very much its own thing. It's just
sort of using... I guess, tropes from the other
stuff we've discussed. So yeah, it's nice to
see that this is, it's not sticking to its era.
It's not doing to sort of, coin a phrase, tea
time 2013 all over again kind of thing. It's
definitely been its own thing, and I like that.
Let's move on then to episode number two, The
House of Masks, which is sort of Valerie's...
first trip in the TARDIS. I think it's just a
nice first trip in the TARDIS kind of story.
The baggage from the previous episode is placed
slightly to the side, but certainly not got rid
of and ignored. And we go on to have a pretty
decent adventure. So, Connor, talk to us about
the House of Masks. Yes, it's good. It's always
nice when Doctor Who goes to Venice. And you
can include the stones of Venice and vampires
of Venice in that. Vampires of Venice gets a
shout out as well in this with the fish people
in the river. So yes, it's good. I like that
whole thing about the alien spacecraft crashing
in the middle of Venice. the AI trying to keep
the memory of the crew alive. It's a good...
I quite like, and this is going to make me sound
really boring, I quite like run -of -the -mill
Doctor Who. I think this is a case of this is
run -of -the -mill Doctor Who. It's a fairly
traditional Doctor Who adventure. And that sort
of, by comparison, lets the really standout stuff.
shine a little brighter and this this is this
this sounds awful and i don't mean it too um
i really don't um but i think after the first
episode and then coming before the end as well
and the end is what i mean by one of those sort
of standout it's being a bit weird and unusual
um it's nice that we get a proper quote -unquote
traditional doctor who story here in the middle
so I really, really enjoy it, as I say. And I
like Valerie's enthusiasm. That's something that
keeps coming up. Well, certainly in the early
part of the series, I think this is where it
shines the most, is Valerie's really enthusiastic
to get out and travelling in time and space.
And it shows quite strongly in this story. I
suppose it's not particularly long in the run
before Valerie just starts to go through absolute
hell. Like, her mum's already been killed, but
it just seems to get horribler and horribler.
With, you know, with nice bits as well. It wouldn't
be Doctor Who without nice bits as well. But
Valerie has a rough time. Like, I think it's
even acknowledged in the dialogue of the last
episode. Like, yeah, that was a rough one. What
about you, Will? House of Masks? Yeah, so as
Jonty said about The Inheritance being a great
episode one, I found The House of Masks to be
a great episode two as well. I think it's interesting
actually to hear in the extras that The Yearn
was originally going to be episode two and things
got moved around. I think House of Masks, I think,
fits better in that mould, in that... we get
we're still sort of learning about valerie and
so this story sort of splits them up and has
them do different things but also brings them
back together and we see some of that um chemistry
between them and uh jacob dougman and sapphire
and go have excellent chemistry which is going
to come up throughout the whole series and um
yeah i mean as connor said there is it's certainly
a feeling of sort of standard who but there are
some some nice little emotional touches that
i think really heighten the story a little bit
such as um they say like we're having a marvellous
party to which she responds you would have hated
it and things like that and then you have Valerie
asking the doctor about the time war a little
bit of gridlock in there which also comes back
later on in Broken Hearts and I like those little
touches that I think bring it up a little bit
as well I think there was I get the feeling that
throughout this series there was a feeling of
just bring it back to character always. And I
think that serves the series very well. And so,
yeah, I just generally found myself enjoying
House of Mask quite a lot. Yeah. And as an aside
as well, on your point about, you know, Valerie
really starts to suffer as the series goes on.
Obviously, we've already had her mum dying, but
I do wonder if they just realised that Safia
Ingarr does sadness so well that they were like,
we must publish Valerie whenever possible. Let's
just be horrible because the performance is so
good. It's like that meme you see, like I've
accidentally become good at work and now my life
is ruined. Let's have a look at the end then,
which is not the end, it's episode three. This
is where we get to Time Spiders and it gets timey
-wimey because we had to have a timey -wimey
episode, didn't we? We're doing... We're doing
mid -air at Moffat here. It's got to be timey
-wimey. So talk to us about the end, Connor.
Yes, I find it difficult to recall much about
the two strands because I find it difficult to
tell what happened in one strand apart from what
happened in the other, unless I've listened to
it in the last 10 minutes, which I haven't. But
it's really good. I think it's the standout episode
of this first set for me. So as you say, it gets
a bit weird and a bit tiny -wimey, which was
what the Moffat era did really, really well.
I like the concept of the Doctor and his companion
and these guest characters of the week scurrying
about inside this spaceship trying to find out
what's going wrong. And it's cool to get the
two perspectives on it, you know, for the two
different timelines. I think this is where Valerie
sort of starts getting put through the ringer
during her travels with the Doctor. I know she's
put through the ringer a bit with the death of
her mum in the first episode. But there's a bit
in this one where it's the first time that she
sort of questions the Doctor and that comes back
later on where she's like, she has to die. um
and she has to try and they're they're coming
up to the next loop i think and she has to try
and like pre -warn herself that she has to die
um and she it's the first time that she sort
of goes why why do i have to do this this is
terrible and awful why do i have to do this and
that becomes a fairly major that becomes a really
major thing later on in the series um her questioning
the doctor's methods and what he thinks is fine
and okay is is not necessarily so um so it's
cool that that shows up here for the first time
yeah it's this episode does sort of in some ways
feel like another day at the office i guess like
it it's not particularly part of the big bad
storyline um but it's It's very good for that
type of episode. It doesn't feel like a slump.
It's that exceptionally engaging. Will, what
do you think of it? So, yeah, I thought this
was a really great episode. I think, like both
of you, this is my standout of the set. It's
the first time I've heard anything, I believe,
from Ruchana Patel, and that's now a name that
I look out for because of how much I enjoyed
this. I do like a good conceptual story and I
think this handles it really well. I think one
issue that it could have fallen into is that
when you do this with the two time streams is
that you can feel like you're just listening
to the same scene twice. It's a bit of a criticism
I have of flip -flop, I suppose, where once you
listen to one disc, you kind of know what's going
to happen in the other disc. Whereas I think
here, I think it manages not to feel that way
just by getting the storylines to branch out
quite quickly. in, you know, relatively interesting
ways. They end up in different places. Obviously,
one has the Doctor more active, one has Valerie
more active and things like that. I think the
Time Spider is a great idea for a villain. I
wouldn't be surprised if we see them again in
other sets. I know we do. Spoilers, we do see
them again later down the line in this series.
But I mean, wouldn't be surprised if they end
up elsewhere. And it really... does pack quite
an emotional punch at the end. It's quite moving
as we hear the Doctor and Valerie slowly succumb.
And that, yeah, I found that to be actually very
emotional and really well done. And yeah, it
was overall just a really good story. I think
that, I suppose one thing I didn't mention on
the structure, the twist of the fact that it's
not two parallel timelines, but it's actually...
And so that was the first set. And it's a really
good set. That's like three really, really solid
episodes that have set up. an awful lot of what's
going to be significant later on. We still have
characters to meet and that kind of thing, but
we've just got a damn good TARDIS team who've
had three really good adventures together at
this stage. And I do like the cliffhanger at
the end of this first set with the Doctor suspecting
it's a Time Lord that's involved, which actually
has an interesting... resolution further down
the line. And I'm glad that they did what they
did with it as opposed to the obvious thing.
So let's move on to set number two, which is
the last one we're going to look at in this episode.
Although we're going to do Broken Hearts as well.
We're counting it as part of this set. Let's
have a look at All of Time and Space, which is...
It's hard to describe, actually. Blimey. Let's
have a look at All of Time and Space, which is
not the episode you'd expect to resolve the cliffhanger
beforehand, certainly, but it all gets a bit
meta and we deal with the idea of the Doctor
and Valerie being characters in a fiction and
all that kind of thing. It's something that's
been done before, it's something Big Finish has
done before, and it's done quite well here. I
do like the story, it does get a bit run -aroundy
towards the end, but... As far as I'm concerned,
the quality is remaining high with this one.
Connor, do you want to talk to us about it? Yes,
I think the closest analogue to this that I can
think of is it always really reminds me of The
Wizard of Time, which was the Roy Gill story
from the fourth Dr. Leela and Margaret run, where
it sort of takes... It sort of does Doctor Who
within Doctor Who or a version of Doctor Who
within Doctor Who. And it's based around this
guy, Ellery Quest, as he tries to create Doctor
Who. There's similarities to the actual origin
of Doctor Who. It's quite funny. At one stage,
the guy... uh they goes to meet and tries to
pitch it to you at the theater tells him take
this to the bbc they're looking for something
just like this um i always it always sticks in
my head as well the bit with the doctor and valerie
as like punch and judy puppets um that's a really
really funny image and i like that they're having
to hop around all the different mediums there's
a bit with the turn up and the archers um I really
like that. It's quite funny. There's that sort
of offbeat humor to this, which I really appreciate.
Yeah, it's a good one. I like the tie it in as
well with sort of the wider 11th Doctor story
that was going on at sort of this point in the
TV series where he's trying to get the universe
to forget him. And that's where, you know, that's
how Ellery Quest sort of gets created. It was
someone who was writing a biography of the Doctor.
The Doctor goes around and rewrites history and
takes himself out of that, and this guy suddenly
ends up writing a fictional story that's quite
similar to Doctor Who then. So, yeah, I like
it. It's a really likeable story, and as I said,
there's a quirky sort of humour to it that I
really enjoy. Yeah, it's definitely the quirky
one so far. It's good word, quirky. What about
you, Will? Yeah, I found this to be a... Great,
fun, another conceptual episode. I know Tim Foley
was on a tear around this time and potentially
I think still is. With this coming out, I think
a month after A Friend of the Family, which is
incredible. I think you've covered it on the
podcast before. Sorry, spoilers, by the way,
it's not actually written by other requests.
I don't mean to throw him in it like that. Yeah,
I found this story to be really fun. One thing
that could have happened is that if you described
it, it sounds like quite a visual idea with the
Doctor and Valerie as these puppets and on comic
strips and things like that. But it works really
well on audio and they add some nice little sort
of sound production things to make it flow very
well. And yeah, all the various guises that the
Doctor and Valerie sort of take throughout are
great. And yeah, overall, just a very... Just
a really enjoyable story. There was one thing
I remember that came up, which was they had a
YouTube video where they did a quiz. They quizzed
Jacob Duggan and Safiya Ingar on various aspects.
And one of the questions was, what is the name
of the cat in All of Time and Space? So I'll
throw that to you two now and see if you can
remember that. Nope. It's on the tip of my tongue,
but I'm not getting it. It was Malpomene, which
was, when I watched that, I got it, and I was
like, why on earth do I remember what this cat
was called? Because I'm sometimes so terrible
with names, and I was like, oh yeah, yeah, Malpomene
the cat, obviously. Well, now you've said it,
obviously, yeah. I miss these YouTube videos.
I've never seen that. That sounds quite good.
I have to admit, I've missed a lot of behind
-the -scenes stuff with this. I've never listened
to the extras on this one and sort of wasn't
really aware they were doing YouTube videos and
stuff like that. I wish to call that. The next
one we've got is The Yearn, which is very significant
as far as the storyline goes. This is... This
is really the episode that kicks what becomes
the ongoing storyline off. This is the sort of
turning point where we're not just having fun
and Geronimo -ing around the universe. Now this
is where things start to get tied down a little
bit by places and people and ideas and concepts
and time itself. It introduces Roana, which is
Valerie's... love interest throughout the rest
of the series and obviously the yearn returns
as well so we're starting to play in in this
series toy box now we're really starting to figure
out what it's about i'm glad that we've waited
until midway through the second set to really
start jumping into all of this because i think
it's really important to have the time we've
had with the doctor and valerie so far just For
the most part, just having adventures, sort of
quite conceptual stuff, as Will's pointed out.
But nevertheless, they've been having adventures.
And this is where the adventures maybe start
to take a little bit of a turn and sinister things
start to happen. And as we've already pointed
out, Valerie's time in the TARDIS isn't altogether
that pleasant. And I think this is kind of that
point. So talk to us about the year and Connor.
Yes, as you said, it's quite an important episode.
It's one I have to admit that I struggled with
a little bit. I found myself tuning out of it
quite frequently. I usually really enjoy base
under siege stuff, but I find it difficult to
stick with this one. And that may well fully
be on me. whenever i was listening to it just
not not paying attention um but i don't remember
a huge amount about it the standout absolutely
is romana and you can see why um they wanted
her to be a part of the series um as valerie's
as valerie's girlfriend um so i really really
enjoy those scenes whereas valerie's sort of
falling in love with her and and they're getting
together um And as I say, I enjoy a base under
seed story, but I struggled a bit with, for whatever
reason, with this one. And it hasn't really stuck
with me, I must admit. I think this is more of
a story about what it's setting up and what it's
going to lead to than actually what happens in
the story. Because I'm kind of the same. I couldn't
give you a synopsis, but I can tell you why it's
significant. Yeah, because Medruth features quite
heavily throughout the later part of the series.
Rowana obviously makes several return appearances
and the urine themselves become important when
it comes to the last set. But it's like all the
elements are there, but I couldn't put the jigsaw
of them together again now. I mean, this is also
a series where a lot happens and a lot is interconnected.
So from this point onwards, it does kind of get
difficult to go, oh, that's the one where that
happens, I guess. Or maybe I'm just being charitable
to my own terrible memory here. Will, what do
you think of the year? Yeah, so I wouldn't say
quite to Connor's level of, you know, I didn't
quite get into it. But equally, I think of all
of them. the year might be the most sort of standard
who of them it's a pretty sort of standard base
under siege story for a lot of it i know at the
beginning you sort of have um the doctor and
valerie sort of joking a bit about like um you
know oh they're not going to believe this and
there's going to be like an uptight sort of guy
you know in charge and things like that and so
they sort of lampshade it but equally that is
that does happen that is what this story is um
i think As Connor has said as well, the romance
stuff is the best stuff for me. I find Valerie
Rana to be really believable. I find the Doctor
sort of third wheeling and not really knowing
what to do quite funny as well. And there's also
the little bits of world building around Madrid
as well. The Tracer Circle thing and stuff like
that is just nice little touches as well. It's
interesting for the year and going into the extras.
Because I believe, if I remember correctly, not
only was this going to be episode two, but Rowanna
wasn't going to come back and the truth wasn't
going to come back or any of that originally.
And that's a very interesting sort of look into
a very different 11th Doctor Chronicles, because,
of course, Rowanna's in load to the second half
and we get a hold of other stories about the
truth and things. And so, yeah, that's a strange
look and sort of sideways glance into what could
have been. So, yes, I think. Overall, I think
the urn is a pretty good story, if, again, sort
of more of a standard story, especially coming
after the end and all the time and space. Yeah,
it's... I don't think we're dropping in quality
here at all. I just think that this episode has
different things to do than everything we've
had so far, because all of a sudden... The series
isn't about the Doctor and Valerie exclusively
anymore. But yeah, it does what it needs to do,
and it definitely pushes the series forwards.
So next up is Curiosity Shop, which I've got
to be honest, it isn't my favourite. I've seen
this one be a bit divisive. I've seen that there
are people that really like it. It just doesn't
quite work for me, and I can't quite identify
at which point. doesn't particularly work. I
think that everyone involved just seems to be
giving it everything they can. It is a good script.
There's a nice little concept there and the idea
of the Doctor forcing Valerie to literally tear
herself apart and all this kind of thing. It's
really good stuff. I just... For some reason,
the whole thing just doesn't come together. And
I just don't think it's something that was destined
to all come together. It does kind of give us
a pretty decent emotional gut punch. And I'm
glad that carries on to Broken Hearts. I'm glad
that, you know, we did get Broken Hearts. We
were never meant to. But it just, yeah, the episode
for me, it's just never going to be my favourite.
And like I say. I think everybody involved is
brilliant. It's sort of slightly heartbreaking
to say I'm not a big fan of this one, but Gus
gives us a good script. Dublin and Ingar give
us great performances. There are some wonderful
ideas in there. And this is kind of the Doctor
dealing with a war while not really being the
Doctor. And, you know, obviously... When Does
the Doctor Stop Being the Doctor is a theme in
this series and it's a theme in the series that
this is set around. So it definitely has its
place. I just don't think the production fully
comes together for me. But you may have differing
opinions. Connor, what's yours? I would not call
myself a fan of this either. I have no problem
marking it out and saying that this is unfortunately
the weakest episode in the series. It's a shame
because I haven't listened to the extras, but
I understand from it that Jacob Dudman wasn't
keen on having to perform all the classic Doctors
that he wasn't familiar with. And if this is
the thing, Jacob Dudman could do a really good
impression of the, like a really damn good impression
of the 11th Doctor. And beyond that, there are
some that he's good at, and then there's some
that's, certainly in this story, he's being made
to do them for the sake of it. I think it's obviously
come from, okay, we've got this guy in who's
a fantastic impressionist. Let's make him do
all the voices. But they haven't actually given
any regard to whether or not he can do the voices
to the same quality as the main one, the role
that he's playing throughout the series. And
it's just a case of him, I think, being made
to overextend his talents and it not working.
And it falls very, very flat as a result. I mentioned
earlier on that I'm not a big fan of the 11th
Doctor. The way he behaves towards Valerie in
this is just the perfect example of that. I don't
think he's a particularly nice person. That's
sort of the point, I think, of The Eleventh Doctor
and the way Stephen Moffat wrote him sometimes
is that the Doctor is not a nice person. He's
an alien from outer space and he's so completely
different to us that it's not possible to say,
oh yes, he's a nice person or he's not a nice
person. But there's a callousness that's on show
here that's really unlikable. And it's just not
my sort of Doctor Who, I'm afraid. And it's not
Jacob Dubman's fault by any means. The fault
lies entirely with the decision to make him do
all of these voices that he can't do to the same
extent as he can do the 11th Doctor's voice.
and it doesn't work, unfortunately. I think you
make a very good point about Eleven not being
particularly nice. I want to like the Doctor
as a character through any incarnation, and I'm
happy the Doctor 2 be challenging, the Doctor
2 have. moral quandaries and all that kind of
thing. I love the concept of the war doctor.
I quite liked sort of the early Capaldi era,
am I a good man, sort of soul -searching stuff.
It's a shame that a lot of that never quite got
developed as far as it could. But you're right,
here he's just nasty. And it's perfectly believable.
This is something I can see the 11th Doctor doing.
But at the same time, it's not particularly something
I want to see the 11th Doctor doing. Anyway,
Will, what do you think of Curiosity Shop? So
I think I find Curiosity Shop to probably be
the most frustrating story of this run, in that
there are actually a bunch of things that I like
about it, but there's also a bunch of things
I'm not so keen on. So I guess if I start this
off that I like, so we've got a story written
here by James Goss, you know, Mr Torchwood. basically
at this point and i think um if you put if you
wanted a story with a sort of dark oppressive
tone that this has he's definitely the guy to
go for it i i like sort of the evolving relationship
between valerie and golas i think some of that's
done pretty well and i like um some of the stuff
with the way the doctor progresses in that you
know we see him sort of in the background first
he's not he doesn't want to get involved at all
then he wants to leave it to authority and then
gradually he starts trying he starts trying to
help people before finally becoming himself and
those little moments where so someone's doing
his voice of the 11th doctor impersonating these
other doctors but sometimes his 11th doctor voice
will fully break through and sometimes that works
really well um in terms of the stuff that i wasn't
so high on um i found that so Basically, from
the beginning of the story, when you hear that
he's impersonating the first Doctor, you kind
of know where the story is going to go. And it
does just sort of go there, I think, in that
you get Valerie goes to see the Doctor, Valerie
goes back to see Golas, Valerie goes to see the
Doctor and so on. And I think over an hour, it
struggles to really hold my attention for all
of that through. I think it's seven previous
Doctors. And so that was one aspect. Another
one, I think. connor talks about is that i think
dublin's fantastic throughout this series and
his 11th doctor is very very good um but he can't
do that for all the doctors so his 11th the one
reason his 11th doctor is so good is that he
doesn't just have an 11th doctor voice he has
a variety of 11th doctor voices that he can use
for whatever the situation needs which really
you know helps his performance whereas for these
other doctors It is just a little bit of an impression
and he feels a bit stretched because of it. I
know they're not meant to be the actual previous
doctors, but even so. And I think another point
that I had with it was that I guess we follow
Valerie throughout this story. And then at the
end, it kind of feels like the stuff with Valerie
is wrapped a bit too neatly. I know this point
is a little bit moot is what we're about to talk
about, but you get like. When I was re -listening
to this for the podcast, it struck me that in
the end, there's a bit where I think it's when
Valerie's dying and the doctor starts saying
something and Valerie says, it's not about you.
And then in, you know, this is about me. And
then in all the time and space after Ellery finds
out it's not real, again, the doctor starts saying
something and Valerie says, it's not about you.
And then there would have been a perfect time
here for Valerie to say that and she doesn't.
Of course, we do get that later, but that was
something that struck me. at the time when I
listened to it. So yeah, overall, a bit mixed
on it, but yeah, there's stuff in it that doesn't
quite work for me. And considering we're two
full sets in here, to have only one story that
we've not all just completely raved about effectively
is still a damn good achievement. The hit rate
of this series is very, very good. So we're definitely
allowed to have one that we're not so keen on.
The one thing I can say about this is it's still
doing something conceptual. It's still an idea.
It's not, you know, generic of the Daleks. You
know, it's not a story that we've heard an awful
lot of before. So it gets points for that, I
guess. And this next story that we've got to
discuss, the last one we're going to discuss
today, Broken Hearts, it's kind of interesting
how this one came about because obviously it
wasn't part of the original plan. It wasn't released
as one of the sets. I believe it was recorded
last. It was recorded after the rest of the series
over and done with. Although if either of you
know better, please do tell me I'm wrong. No,
you're correct. It was. Yeah. Okay. Thought it
was. And it does kind of answer what happens
in this story, because this story kind of leaves
a lot of stuff unsaid. And it would have been
exceptionally jarring to go from Curiosity Shot
to Spirit of the Season. So I'm very glad that
Broken Hearts exists. So it's an absolutely cracking,
more or less two -hander. Really does kind of
explore... that idea that connor was discussing
of the 11th doctor not being particularly nice
and you know valerie genuinely sort of has enough
of him at this point she's like i'm not doing
this anymore you're horrible go away leave me
alone um and it's a shame we never got something
like this on telly because it's it's a great
idea and you know the 11th doctor deliberately
destroys amy's faith in him and we don't get
a reaction like this and i wish we had i actually
wish we'd have had that just outright fury um
and it's it's really really well done here and
if nothing else this episode is absolutely a
testament to just how damn good these two leads
are um just brilliant stuff uh so connor talk
to us about broken hearts I think it's fair to
say that certainly from the perspective of how
it impacts the Doctor and Valerie's relationship
for the rest of the series, it's the most important
episode of the whole run, certainly to my mind,
and I found it really difficult to listen to
the later sets, and particularly there's times
towards the end when things are getting apocalyptic
and the Doctor's not quite living up to what
he should be. And Valerie's getting really cross
and annoyed with him. I find it really hard not
to look back at Broken Hearts. And that sort
of colours their interactions for the rest of
the series for me. As I've said, I'm not a big
fan of The Eleventh Doctor. And I've sort of
given the reasons for that in that. And certainly
on display in Curiosity Shop, I think there's
a nastiness there. that Curiosity Shop puts on
full show. I like this story a lot because there
are consequences for that. And it's Valerie taking
the doctor fully to task for the way he treated
her. And he absolutely deserves it. And there's
no beating around that bush. The way he behaves
towards her in Curiosity Shop is absolutely appalling.
and this is the consequences, and he completely
and utterly deserves it. Dodman's performance
is fantastic. There's a bit in this where I think
Valerie says, I wish you were dead, and he says
something along the lines of, yes, so do I. And
you can feel his heart, the Doctor's two hearts
breaking, and yours along with it. It's absolute
rock bottom for the Doctor. I cannot think of
a time when the Doctor was lower. And he has
no one to blame in this but himself because the
way he treated Valerie before was appalling.
It was such a necessary story after Curiosity
Shop and I'm glad that they went back and did
it. It would have felt very strange going straight
from this into the next story without. or going
from Curiosity Shop into the next story without
some sort of acknowledgement. So I'm very, very
glad that they did this. Yeah, considering it
was, I don't want to say thrown together, but
it certainly was sort of done last. It really
does have an impact on the whole series and I
can't imagine the rest of the series without
it being there. One day... I might actually listen
to the whole run without it and just see if it
works, if it works the same way and all that
kind of thing. But yeah, it's a really, really
significant episode considering it was not meant
to exist. Will, what are your thoughts on it?
You said this was your favourite, so go ahead.
So you can probably guess some of my thoughts
on it. So I remember when this was announced,
Lisa McMullen did a big sort of thread on what
was then Twitter. sort of explaining why she
wanted to write it, and she did various interviews
and said, like, if people don't like it, she'll
give a refund and whatever. And you can risk,
I think, overhyping it, but luckily, in this
case, this is fantastic, I thought. I just thought
this is just such an excellent character piece.
I think McMullin really dives down into who the
11th Doctor is here. Like, when he's... he's
facing this conflict and at first his impression
is that to treat it with humour he starts making
jokes and Valerie's not having it and then he
becomes a bit self -pitying and self -effacing
and Valerie's not having that either and then
he gets angry and then gradually he sort of peels
through the layers to find someone who like desperately
doesn't want to hurt people but is absolutely
capable of it and I think Dougman also performs
this throughout just excellently and It also
ties into this sort of the Moffat idea from this
time that the doctor isn't incapable of being
cruel or cowardly or actually perfectly capable
of it, but they strive not to do that. And it's
I think it tackles it really well. The scene
where I really loved, I know Conrad already mentioned
the scene I really loved as well, is the bit
where we sort of go back to House of Masks and
Valerie asks the doctor how many people he's
killed. not including the time war because they've
already spoken about that and that it was like
necessary evil and things and uh but how many
people has he killed if you don't include that
and the doctor is trying to sort of ostensibly
calm valerie down but in reality keep himself
calm because of the you know the um weaponized
weather that's coming which also by the way is
just such an excellent idea especially for a
story like this and then he does snap and uh
you know he says he's killed too many people
and he can remember all of it and i i thought
That whole scene was just great. There's a great
sort of emotional climax in the story and Dortmund
performs it brilliantly. It's one of his best
moments, I think I've heard him do at Big Finish.
And I remember I watched, I listened to this
story while out on a walk. And I actually, when
I got back, I came in through the door and I
went, sat on the stairs and I listened to that
scene again because I just thought it was done
so brilliantly. And then I haven't even talked
about the stuff with the robots, which again.
i just really enjoyed it it ends up being uh
actually quite heartbreaking which is potentially
what you wouldn't expect with these two robots
talking and just seeing them sort of become more
alive i suppose the story goes through and develop
the relationship and i think uh the way it all
comes together at the end is just such a great
exploration and yeah and um i think you mentioned
it as well they're talking about the doctor and
amy but you do start to think about Or are there
things you could do this type of thing in other
eras, like the Seventh Doctor and Ace after Curse
of Fenric or something? It's just such a great
idea and done very well. Yeah, it's a really
simple story. I'm assuming it's done on the minimalist
of big Finnish budgets there's ever been, but
it's just so powerful and effective. I really
do think this series needed it. The series was
going very well, but it needed this, and it really
gives us sort of a big moment, pretty much slap
bang in the middle. And it also meant they kind
of got to ape the format of Series 7 by having
an individual special slap bang in the middle,
so nice coincidence there as well. So that's
our first... two sets and the bonus extra little
bit done. So we'll come back another time in
another episode and we'll discuss the second
half of this series and, you know, head into
that big Daliki finale that I just think works
brilliantly. But I've really enjoyed just chatting
about this so far and it feels like we've covered
sort of two distinct mini, I guess, phases of
this era. You know, there's... There's the bit
that builds up the Doctor and Valerie's relationship,
and then there's the bit that breaks it down.
And it feels like we've gone through pretty much
a whole arc with these characters already. So
we shall leave it there. We will be back for
part two of these 11th Doctor Chronicles Series
7V. I'm sticking with that, Series 7V. It works.
So I will say a huge thank you and goodbye to
Connor. Thank you very much. And a huge thank
you and goodbye to Will. Thanks very much, and
ta -ra. And it has been good to have you on at
long last. Yes, it's been good to be on. We'll
definitely do more. At least come back for part
two. Yes, I promise I will, yeah. That's the
plan. But we'll leave it there, and we'll be
back with more Spodcasting very soon. Goodbye
now.