WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.660 You're listening to a podcast of spurious morality. 00:00:59.820 --> 00:01:02.939 Hello and welcome to a podcast of Spurious Morality. 00:01:03.020 --> 00:01:05.700 I'm Johnston and with me this week I have Connor. 00:01:06.379 --> 00:01:11.739 Hello. And we are joined by a brand new Spodcaster. 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:15.599 Welcome to your first episode, Will. Hello there. 00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:17.540 Great, great to have you join us. We've kind 00:01:17.540 --> 00:01:20.859 of been planning you entering the Spodcastverse 00:01:20.859 --> 00:01:23.040 for probably the best part of a year now, but 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.840 it's taken us this long to kind of get to this 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:30.310 episode. And it's going to be a good episode, 00:01:30.349 --> 00:01:33.109 I think. So we're going to have a look at the 00:01:33.109 --> 00:01:38.150 11th Doctor Chronicles, but the ones with Valerie. 00:01:38.329 --> 00:01:41.469 So it's kind of four sets that make up a very 00:01:41.469 --> 00:01:43.849 coherent series. I think some people refer to 00:01:43.849 --> 00:01:50.409 it as sort of Series 7B or 7AB or 7A .5 or whatever. 00:01:50.890 --> 00:01:56.569 I think the official one is 7V. 7V, we'll go 00:01:56.569 --> 00:01:58.689 with that. Because when I think about it, 7B 00:01:58.689 --> 00:02:01.750 is like the actual second half of Series 7 with 00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:05.950 Clara in it, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So strong 00:02:05.950 --> 00:02:09.889 start. But yeah, we're looking at 7B. We'll go 00:02:09.889 --> 00:02:12.810 with that. I like 7B. So we're looking at these 00:02:12.810 --> 00:02:16.949 four sets plus an extra episode that was released 00:02:16.949 --> 00:02:19.629 in the middle. And we're going to go through 00:02:19.629 --> 00:02:23.960 them an episode at a time. There's a lot of love 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.479 for this run. I think it's sort of very notable 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:30.520 for quite a few things. It is very much in the 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:34.580 style of an 11th Doctor series, that sort of 00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:38.360 latter 11th Doctor when Moffat got a bit experimental 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:40.280 with the format, we're going to say that, I'm 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:43.699 not busy with Sherlock, and sort of started to 00:02:43.699 --> 00:02:47.400 split the series and see what could be done and 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:49.300 how the Christmas special could work in the middle 00:02:49.300 --> 00:02:53.520 and all that kind of thing. It's also notable 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:58.020 for having some younger, big Finnish writers, 00:02:58.139 --> 00:03:00.020 you know, developing younger talent, that kind 00:03:00.020 --> 00:03:05.199 of thing. So I think there's quite a lot to discuss 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:07.680 here. What I was going to say on that point was 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:10.479 that the Doctor Chronicles was a range that I 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:12.919 wasn't really looking at, just because I've already 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:14.580 got so much of a backlog. Don't tell anyone, 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:16.680 but I haven't even listened to Doom Coalition 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:22.669 yet, so, you know. And when they sort of said, 00:03:22.810 --> 00:03:24.229 you know, Jacob Dudman's leaving and we're going 00:03:24.229 --> 00:03:26.530 to do a full 11th Doctor series with a new companion, 00:03:26.610 --> 00:03:29.550 that did interest me. And then you start hearing 00:03:29.550 --> 00:03:33.509 reviews from that first set and it really becomes, 00:03:33.729 --> 00:03:35.729 you think like, OK, I'm going to give this a 00:03:35.729 --> 00:03:37.909 go. And in the end, I really liked it. Yeah, 00:03:37.990 --> 00:03:40.129 I'm one of those people that sort of championed 00:03:40.129 --> 00:03:42.889 this series. Yeah, I have to admit, the Chronicles 00:03:42.889 --> 00:03:46.530 have never particularly been my favourite, but... 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.439 I got this on release. I had this pre -ordered, 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.060 so I must have sort of looked at it beforehand 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.039 and gone, no, there's something about this, you 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:00.099 know, new companion and four box sets that make 00:04:00.099 --> 00:04:03.319 up a series. It definitely caught my attention. 00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:06.500 I think the strongest thing this series has going 00:04:06.500 --> 00:04:12.659 for it is it sets out to be a series rather than 00:04:12.659 --> 00:04:14.699 a collection of box sets, and I think that's 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:16.920 a trap that Big Finish can fall into sometimes. 00:04:17.850 --> 00:04:20.490 The closest analogue to it is probably the likes 00:04:20.490 --> 00:04:23.329 of Doom Coalition and Stranded and those other 00:04:23.329 --> 00:04:28.810 ones. Sort of multi -box set story arcs. So it 00:04:28.810 --> 00:04:32.069 felt really good to get something that was deliberately 00:04:32.069 --> 00:04:38.389 set out to tell or to match as closely as possible 00:04:38.389 --> 00:04:41.350 the format of Doctor Who on TV, which Big Finish 00:04:41.350 --> 00:04:45.209 doesn't always do. I think it's fair to say that 00:04:45.209 --> 00:04:48.129 sometimes would stick more to like... If someone's 00:04:48.129 --> 00:04:50.970 buying this box set, that has to be a self -contained 00:04:50.970 --> 00:04:53.470 set. That seems to be the way they've gone more 00:04:53.470 --> 00:04:56.769 recently, and this stood out for that reason. 00:04:57.509 --> 00:05:00.009 So that's the strongest thing it has going for 00:05:00.009 --> 00:05:03.769 it. The second strongest thing being two fantastic 00:05:03.769 --> 00:05:07.610 lead performances. I'm not the biggest fan of 00:05:07.610 --> 00:05:11.329 the 11th Doctor in the whole world. I wouldn't 00:05:11.329 --> 00:05:14.829 rank him among my favourite Doctors, but to my 00:05:14.829 --> 00:05:21.740 ears, Jacob Dudman, is nearly completely indistinguishable 00:05:21.740 --> 00:05:25.500 from Matt Smith. He's a really good... It's a 00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:27.019 really good impression and it's a really good 00:05:27.019 --> 00:05:29.220 performance as well. You can tell that he's studied 00:05:29.220 --> 00:05:31.779 the role and I think he's broadly making the 00:05:31.779 --> 00:05:34.480 choices that Matt Smith would make in these stories. 00:05:34.860 --> 00:05:37.660 And then you've got Safiya Inghar as well as 00:05:37.660 --> 00:05:40.720 Valerie and they're absolutely fantastic. I think 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:42.399 it's fair to say that in a lot of places they 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:46.430 carry this series. just with the performance 00:05:46.430 --> 00:05:48.490 they've put in throughout it. Yeah, absolutely. 00:05:48.829 --> 00:05:52.670 This is a series that absolutely rests on its 00:05:52.670 --> 00:05:55.730 leads and considering neither of its leads have 00:05:55.730 --> 00:06:03.350 been in Telly Doctor Who, Big Finish is one of 00:06:03.350 --> 00:06:05.370 their biggest selling points is, well, we've 00:06:05.370 --> 00:06:07.269 got Peter Davison, we've got Tom Baker, we've 00:06:07.269 --> 00:06:11.449 got David Tennant. They've not got the kind of 00:06:11.449 --> 00:06:14.920 star power to push this one forward. automatically 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:17.540 we are kind of relying on storytelling and format 00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:20.839 and that kind of thing. And I'm going to say 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:23.060 up front, I think it's an absolute success. I've 00:06:23.060 --> 00:06:26.300 really, really enjoyed re -listening to this 00:06:26.300 --> 00:06:30.579 and that kind of thing. I'm going to be a bit 00:06:30.579 --> 00:06:35.220 mean and I'm going to see if we can pick a favourite 00:06:35.220 --> 00:06:38.139 story from the run each, which I think is a bit 00:06:38.139 --> 00:06:39.540 of a challenge because there's some very, very 00:06:39.540 --> 00:06:41.920 good stories in there. Do you want to have a 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:45.029 go first, Connor? It's actually not a difficult 00:06:45.029 --> 00:06:47.689 pick. Conversion Therapy. It's not even called 00:06:47.689 --> 00:06:50.310 Conversion Therapy. It's Sins of the Flesh, but 00:06:50.310 --> 00:06:53.149 in my head it's called Conversion Therapy. Sins 00:06:53.149 --> 00:06:56.310 of the Flesh from, I think it's the third box 00:06:56.310 --> 00:06:59.490 set, with the Cybermen. I think it's my standout 00:06:59.490 --> 00:07:04.350 one. I don't think there's anything that fills 00:07:04.350 --> 00:07:07.990 me with more anger in real life than Conversion 00:07:07.990 --> 00:07:13.220 Therapy. Doctor Who doing a very, it's not a 00:07:13.220 --> 00:07:21.079 very subtle takedown of it. It's quite, it's 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:23.519 a bit on the nose with, you know, conversion 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:27.839 Cybermen. That sort of, you know, follows. But 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.319 I think it's fantastic. I'm a sucker for the 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:32.860 Cybermen anyway. So I would very happily pick 00:07:32.860 --> 00:07:38.220 out Sins of the Flesh from box set three. Yeah, 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:41.399 it's a very, very good episode and a very good 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:44.519 use of the Cybermen, absolutely. What about you, 00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:49.360 Will? So that's an excellent choice from Connor. 00:07:49.459 --> 00:07:53.439 I think I'd go for Broken Hearts, the extra one 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:57.139 in the middle. I just found it to be just such 00:07:57.139 --> 00:08:00.360 a brilliant character piece. Actually, I guess 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:04.639 two sets of two -handers that really delved into... 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.839 you know, the relationship between the Doctor 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:11.500 and Valerie, while also telling this side story 00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:14.819 about Lionel and Augustus. And I think really 00:08:14.819 --> 00:08:18.120 does dive down into who the 11th Doctor is in 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:20.399 quite a believable way. I think Lisa McMullan 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:23.680 pulled that off very well. And yeah, overall, 00:08:23.939 --> 00:08:28.660 there are loads of great episodes in this, but 00:08:28.660 --> 00:08:30.980 that really stood out to me as the absolute best. 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:37.539 I think as well... Jacob Dubman and Safir Ingar 00:08:37.539 --> 00:08:42.320 are both excellent sort of as Connor has already 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:44.519 said they're great throughout and Safir Ingar 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:46.840 especially is an incredible find by Big Finish 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:48.379 I know they've done other stuff as well I'm not 00:08:48.379 --> 00:08:51.919 saying that this is their first thing but they 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:54.240 really do an incredible job but in this episode 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:57.700 especially they really bring it and yeah I just 00:08:57.700 --> 00:09:02.799 think overall just a fantastic episode yeah it's 00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:05.940 Considering there's only the two of them in it, 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.200 but there's obviously more in the way of characters, 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:11.559 it's great, just full of wonderful performances. 00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:15.759 You see, I do struggle to pick a favourite from 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:22.240 this because I really, really like the first 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.759 set. I really like that sort of just starting 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:30.159 out, new Doctor Companion. sort of partnership 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:32.740 stuff. So, like, I think The Inheritance is an 00:09:32.740 --> 00:09:35.899 absolutely fantastic companion introduction story. 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.799 You know, the end is really good. I really like 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:41.639 the stuff with the time spiders. It's just a 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:47.159 good sort of future spacey adventure. Since the 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:51.919 Flesh is excellent. All's Fair is very good. 00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:59.090 And I'm a huge fan of the finale as well. And 00:09:59.090 --> 00:10:02.970 I do really like Dalek's Victorious, which is 00:10:02.970 --> 00:10:07.269 kind of the utopia of this set. It's not quite 00:10:07.269 --> 00:10:10.649 the finale. It's linked to it. Is it a three 00:10:10.649 --> 00:10:13.590 -parter? Is it a two -parter type thing? But 00:10:13.590 --> 00:10:16.909 I love how the whole thing just kind of builds 00:10:16.909 --> 00:10:20.490 up and builds up and builds up until basically 00:10:20.490 --> 00:10:22.929 the Doctor has his, oh my God, I'm going to have 00:10:22.929 --> 00:10:25.049 to be the War Doctor again moment. And it's a 00:10:25.049 --> 00:10:27.409 great cliffhanger, but you can just feel like 00:10:27.409 --> 00:10:30.429 everything going wrong for the Doctor throughout 00:10:30.429 --> 00:10:34.110 the episode. And it's a wonderful piece of, you 00:10:34.110 --> 00:10:36.549 know, a story is still told, but the tension 00:10:36.549 --> 00:10:39.870 just builds up and it kind of rips out the rug 00:10:39.870 --> 00:10:42.649 from underneath you. And the Doctor kind of confronts 00:10:42.649 --> 00:10:46.049 what he became in the Time War in a much better 00:10:46.049 --> 00:10:48.889 way than a lot of stuff that is set in the Time 00:10:48.889 --> 00:10:54.960 War, I have to admit. I realise I've just named 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:59.980 like half of the entire series. But I'm going 00:10:59.980 --> 00:11:05.879 with Dalek's Victorious. Yeah, I really like 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:10.879 Dalek's Victorious. Yeah, I like the sort of 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:12.940 two -part finale that comes after it, but just 00:11:12.940 --> 00:11:16.309 that little... Utopia -style build -up episode 00:11:16.309 --> 00:11:18.870 in Daleks Victorious I think works incredibly 00:11:18.870 --> 00:11:22.129 well. And I'd say Utopia was my favourite part 00:11:22.129 --> 00:11:27.450 of those three episodes in Series 3. So it kind 00:11:27.450 --> 00:11:29.389 of does a similar job and does it very, very 00:11:29.389 --> 00:11:34.929 well. Let's get going then. Let's dive in. So 00:11:34.929 --> 00:11:38.250 as we have said, the first episode is The Inheritance. 00:11:38.250 --> 00:11:42.549 This introduces Valerie as the companion and... 00:11:43.259 --> 00:11:47.000 takes the sort of not particularly traditional 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:51.700 step of killing Valerie's mum. It's a pretty 00:11:51.700 --> 00:11:53.539 brutal start for the character and obviously 00:11:53.539 --> 00:11:55.860 something that gets picked up in later episodes, 00:11:56.100 --> 00:12:02.799 sort of as an emotional tug. But I really like 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:04.500 sort of the setup of this. You know, we've got 00:12:04.500 --> 00:12:07.460 the bad capitalists, we've got the idea of, is 00:12:07.460 --> 00:12:09.700 it the Dorinthian blight? Am I saying that correctly? 00:12:11.019 --> 00:12:15.190 Which floats up. again, later in the series, 00:12:15.409 --> 00:12:17.289 and, you know, is also a significant part of 00:12:17.289 --> 00:12:20.350 the storyline. We're introduced to this version 00:12:20.350 --> 00:12:22.909 of the future that Valerie is from. It's sort 00:12:22.909 --> 00:12:26.289 of not quite the sort of thing that we've ever 00:12:26.289 --> 00:12:29.409 seen in Doctor Who before in terms of the settings. 00:12:29.470 --> 00:12:34.070 So it's good. There's definitely a lot of, you 00:12:34.070 --> 00:12:36.750 know, capitalism bad stuff going on, but a lot 00:12:36.750 --> 00:12:39.230 of very good Doctor Who does kind of hinge on 00:12:39.230 --> 00:12:42.289 capitalism bad. So Connor, talk to us about The 00:12:42.289 --> 00:12:45.470 Inheritance. Yes, it's a really strong start. 00:12:46.250 --> 00:12:51.149 I like that it sort of throws you straight in. 00:12:51.250 --> 00:12:53.409 And I actually like as well, Valerie's already 00:12:53.409 --> 00:12:55.889 being quite proactive. It's not the case that 00:12:55.889 --> 00:12:59.070 her, she's already trying to research the blight 00:12:59.070 --> 00:13:02.690 when the Doctor meets her. And it's not a case 00:13:02.690 --> 00:13:05.070 that Companion meets Doctor and is drawn into 00:13:05.070 --> 00:13:09.490 her world. It's the Doctor and Valerie's worlds. 00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:15.779 meet i think that's quite cool um you you have 00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:19.759 the sort of obligatory new who companion uh their 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:23.679 mother is there um and she's a great character 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.000 as well i really like her relationship with valerie 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:30.940 um and it is quite gutting whenever they do ultimately 00:13:30.940 --> 00:13:35.360 um kill her off um so that's really really effective 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.320 that it builds up that relationship really easily 00:13:39.180 --> 00:13:41.360 It doesn't take too long for them to get to the 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.740 stage where this is a really believable mother 00:13:44.740 --> 00:13:49.279 -daughter duo. And then there's proper weight 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.379 at the end whenever Valerie's mourning her death. 00:13:51.500 --> 00:13:56.100 So I think that's a real credit to them to be 00:13:56.100 --> 00:14:03.000 able to do that. You have the evil capitalists, 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.679 as you say. I like the twist that you get. Valerie 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:08.419 obviously thinks this is the whole planet. The 00:14:08.419 --> 00:14:10.039 doctor thinks it's affecting the whole planet. 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:14.460 And then they discover that it's just been confined 00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:17.600 to one rig. So that's a nice twist. That's really 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:22.080 effective. I don't know how much I buy the whole 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:28.409 it's a virus that affects your money. You die 00:14:28.409 --> 00:14:31.769 by having a lot of money. That's an idea. It's 00:14:31.769 --> 00:14:33.730 the sort of idea Doctor Who does quite a lot. 00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:39.950 I do prefer slightly more grounded stuff. That's 00:14:39.950 --> 00:14:43.090 a little bit fantastical. So that's not entirely 00:14:43.090 --> 00:14:48.090 to my tastes, but not everything has to be. As 00:14:48.090 --> 00:14:55.440 I said, it's broadly a very good story. The focus 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.059 is very much on Valerie and her mum, as it should 00:14:58.059 --> 00:15:04.360 be, and that's the most important thing. Yeah, 00:15:04.419 --> 00:15:06.879 I think it finds the balance quite nicely between 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:09.539 sort of introducing Valerie and, you know, that 00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:11.460 relationship with her mum and taking it away 00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:14.759 and telling a pretty solid story as well. It 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:19.179 does put me in mind of sort of good opening episodes, 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:24.100 Bells of St John, Rose, that kind of thing. um 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:27.879 smith and jones basically good companion introductions 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:30.960 um and i feel as though i should mention partners 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:32.480 in crime because i feel as though i've ignored 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:36.039 it by not mentioning it um will what about you 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:40.779 yeah i found the inheritance to be the inheritance 00:15:40.779 --> 00:15:43.720 to be a very confident opener i think it started 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:46.360 out on the right foot for the series uh immediately 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:51.100 um one thing that is apparent in this, that I 00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:53.000 guess I'd say here as opposed to beating all 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:54.919 time, is that it becomes very clear that a lot 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:57.080 of the writers at Big Finish have been sort of 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:59.019 saving up their very Moffat -y dialogue. I think 00:15:59.019 --> 00:16:02.919 there's some really good stuff in this, like 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.240 the Doctor referring to the bomb as Mr. Bomb 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:08.259 and things like that, and that whole cold open 00:16:08.259 --> 00:16:09.980 of I'm the Doctor and this is a bomb, very of 00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:12.039 its era, which you find throughout this series. 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:16.919 I think it launches Valerie very well as someone 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:21.450 who's very active and very caring. And it presents 00:16:21.450 --> 00:16:24.730 just a great mystery, I suppose, with what's 00:16:24.730 --> 00:16:27.970 going on with this virus. And gradually, you 00:16:27.970 --> 00:16:31.950 know, we see this unfold. And I think it presents 00:16:31.950 --> 00:16:34.710 a very sort of interesting narrative throughout. 00:16:36.070 --> 00:16:37.950 And, yeah, you've got Arabella Hendricks, who 00:16:37.950 --> 00:16:40.110 I think is a good villain. I think that she, 00:16:40.250 --> 00:16:44.610 you know, the part where, you know, everyone, 00:16:44.750 --> 00:16:48.110 people start to die and she's when the doctor 00:16:48.110 --> 00:16:51.379 reveals. what that is that it is the dorinthian 00:16:51.379 --> 00:16:55.779 blight and she organizes a buy to live sale is 00:16:55.779 --> 00:16:59.200 uh suitably mustache twirlingly evil for this 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.480 story i think and overall i just i felt the story 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.380 just lived along very nicely and i liked meeting 00:17:06.380 --> 00:17:10.440 all these new characters uh and it really just 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:12.480 set up the rest of the series really well yeah 00:17:16.940 --> 00:17:19.900 Yeah, absolutely. Nice, nice, strong opener. 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.140 And I think that, I mean, with this, this is 00:17:23.140 --> 00:17:24.160 something that we're going to see throughout 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.259 the whole series, really. It is, as we've all 00:17:27.259 --> 00:17:30.180 said, sort of very, very infitting with the era. 00:17:30.259 --> 00:17:33.180 But at the same time, it is doing different stuff. 00:17:33.259 --> 00:17:37.019 Like this is not a remake of The Bells of St. 00:17:37.099 --> 00:17:41.880 John. This is very much its own thing. It's just 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.549 sort of using... I guess, tropes from the other 00:17:45.549 --> 00:17:48.849 stuff we've discussed. So yeah, it's nice to 00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:52.130 see that this is, it's not sticking to its era. 00:17:52.190 --> 00:17:55.630 It's not doing to sort of, coin a phrase, tea 00:17:55.630 --> 00:17:59.589 time 2013 all over again kind of thing. It's 00:17:59.589 --> 00:18:02.630 definitely been its own thing, and I like that. 00:18:04.230 --> 00:18:07.390 Let's move on then to episode number two, The 00:18:07.390 --> 00:18:11.349 House of Masks, which is sort of Valerie's... 00:18:11.690 --> 00:18:14.289 first trip in the TARDIS. I think it's just a 00:18:14.289 --> 00:18:18.390 nice first trip in the TARDIS kind of story. 00:18:19.210 --> 00:18:24.930 The baggage from the previous episode is placed 00:18:24.930 --> 00:18:27.609 slightly to the side, but certainly not got rid 00:18:27.609 --> 00:18:31.150 of and ignored. And we go on to have a pretty 00:18:31.150 --> 00:18:33.630 decent adventure. So, Connor, talk to us about 00:18:33.630 --> 00:18:37.250 the House of Masks. Yes, it's good. It's always 00:18:37.250 --> 00:18:40.859 nice when Doctor Who goes to Venice. And you 00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:46.539 can include the stones of Venice and vampires 00:18:46.539 --> 00:18:49.099 of Venice in that. Vampires of Venice gets a 00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:52.359 shout out as well in this with the fish people 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:56.720 in the river. So yes, it's good. I like that 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:02.859 whole thing about the alien spacecraft crashing 00:19:02.859 --> 00:19:07.480 in the middle of Venice. the AI trying to keep 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.619 the memory of the crew alive. It's a good... 00:19:11.619 --> 00:19:16.500 I quite like, and this is going to make me sound 00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:18.500 really boring, I quite like run -of -the -mill 00:19:18.500 --> 00:19:22.279 Doctor Who. I think this is a case of this is 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:24.039 run -of -the -mill Doctor Who. It's a fairly 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:31.240 traditional Doctor Who adventure. And that sort 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.819 of, by comparison, lets the really standout stuff. 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.480 shine a little brighter and this this is this 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:40.539 this sounds awful and i don't mean it too um 00:19:40.539 --> 00:19:45.160 i really don't um but i think after the first 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:49.839 episode and then coming before the end as well 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:51.359 and the end is what i mean by one of those sort 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.440 of standout it's being a bit weird and unusual 00:19:54.440 --> 00:20:00.200 um it's nice that we get a proper quote -unquote 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.539 traditional doctor who story here in the middle 00:20:02.539 --> 00:20:10.269 so I really, really enjoy it, as I say. And I 00:20:10.269 --> 00:20:13.210 like Valerie's enthusiasm. That's something that 00:20:13.210 --> 00:20:15.170 keeps coming up. Well, certainly in the early 00:20:15.170 --> 00:20:17.630 part of the series, I think this is where it 00:20:17.630 --> 00:20:21.109 shines the most, is Valerie's really enthusiastic 00:20:21.109 --> 00:20:24.430 to get out and travelling in time and space. 00:20:24.710 --> 00:20:30.480 And it shows quite strongly in this story. I 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.440 suppose it's not particularly long in the run 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.640 before Valerie just starts to go through absolute 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:38.240 hell. Like, her mum's already been killed, but 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:40.839 it just seems to get horribler and horribler. 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:44.960 With, you know, with nice bits as well. It wouldn't 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:46.880 be Doctor Who without nice bits as well. But 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.019 Valerie has a rough time. Like, I think it's 00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:50.640 even acknowledged in the dialogue of the last 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.259 episode. Like, yeah, that was a rough one. What 00:20:54.259 --> 00:20:59.509 about you, Will? House of Masks? Yeah, so as 00:20:59.509 --> 00:21:03.190 Jonty said about The Inheritance being a great 00:21:03.190 --> 00:21:05.230 episode one, I found The House of Masks to be 00:21:05.230 --> 00:21:07.769 a great episode two as well. I think it's interesting 00:21:07.769 --> 00:21:09.750 actually to hear in the extras that The Yearn 00:21:09.750 --> 00:21:11.990 was originally going to be episode two and things 00:21:11.990 --> 00:21:14.150 got moved around. I think House of Masks, I think, 00:21:14.150 --> 00:21:19.869 fits better in that mould, in that... we get 00:21:19.869 --> 00:21:22.289 we're still sort of learning about valerie and 00:21:22.289 --> 00:21:24.069 so this story sort of splits them up and has 00:21:24.069 --> 00:21:26.210 them do different things but also brings them 00:21:26.210 --> 00:21:28.630 back together and we see some of that um chemistry 00:21:28.630 --> 00:21:30.869 between them and uh jacob dougman and sapphire 00:21:30.869 --> 00:21:32.390 and go have excellent chemistry which is going 00:21:32.390 --> 00:21:35.509 to come up throughout the whole series and um 00:21:35.509 --> 00:21:38.549 yeah i mean as connor said there is it's certainly 00:21:38.549 --> 00:21:41.009 a feeling of sort of standard who but there are 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:43.789 some some nice little emotional touches that 00:21:43.789 --> 00:21:46.829 i think really heighten the story a little bit 00:21:46.829 --> 00:21:53.450 such as um they say like we're having a marvellous 00:21:53.450 --> 00:21:56.609 party to which she responds you would have hated 00:21:56.609 --> 00:22:00.269 it and things like that and then you have Valerie 00:22:00.269 --> 00:22:02.210 asking the doctor about the time war a little 00:22:02.210 --> 00:22:06.930 bit of gridlock in there which also comes back 00:22:06.930 --> 00:22:10.289 later on in Broken Hearts and I like those little 00:22:10.289 --> 00:22:13.210 touches that I think bring it up a little bit 00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:16.869 as well I think there was I get the feeling that 00:22:16.869 --> 00:22:18.230 throughout this series there was a feeling of 00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:20.579 just bring it back to character always. And I 00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:23.220 think that serves the series very well. And so, 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:26.039 yeah, I just generally found myself enjoying 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:30.819 House of Mask quite a lot. Yeah. And as an aside 00:22:30.819 --> 00:22:34.140 as well, on your point about, you know, Valerie 00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:36.039 really starts to suffer as the series goes on. 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.500 Obviously, we've already had her mum dying, but 00:22:38.500 --> 00:22:42.740 I do wonder if they just realised that Safia 00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:45.220 Ingarr does sadness so well that they were like, 00:22:45.339 --> 00:22:50.599 we must publish Valerie whenever possible. Let's 00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:52.759 just be horrible because the performance is so 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:56.079 good. It's like that meme you see, like I've 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.160 accidentally become good at work and now my life 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:04.859 is ruined. Let's have a look at the end then, 00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:08.619 which is not the end, it's episode three. This 00:23:08.619 --> 00:23:12.539 is where we get to Time Spiders and it gets timey 00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:14.619 -wimey because we had to have a timey -wimey 00:23:14.619 --> 00:23:18.000 episode, didn't we? We're doing... We're doing 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.359 mid -air at Moffat here. It's got to be timey 00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:22.039 -wimey. So talk to us about the end, Connor. 00:23:24.940 --> 00:23:30.960 Yes, I find it difficult to recall much about 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:35.079 the two strands because I find it difficult to 00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:37.680 tell what happened in one strand apart from what 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:40.480 happened in the other, unless I've listened to 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.160 it in the last 10 minutes, which I haven't. But 00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:46.500 it's really good. I think it's the standout episode 00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:51.039 of this first set for me. So as you say, it gets 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.619 a bit weird and a bit tiny -wimey, which was 00:23:53.619 --> 00:23:55.480 what the Moffat era did really, really well. 00:23:57.619 --> 00:24:02.299 I like the concept of the Doctor and his companion 00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:06.779 and these guest characters of the week scurrying 00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:08.900 about inside this spaceship trying to find out 00:24:08.900 --> 00:24:14.900 what's going wrong. And it's cool to get the 00:24:14.900 --> 00:24:16.900 two perspectives on it, you know, for the two 00:24:16.900 --> 00:24:19.880 different timelines. I think this is where Valerie 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:23.259 sort of starts getting put through the ringer 00:24:23.259 --> 00:24:25.099 during her travels with the Doctor. I know she's 00:24:25.099 --> 00:24:27.279 put through the ringer a bit with the death of 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:31.859 her mum in the first episode. But there's a bit 00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:35.440 in this one where it's the first time that she 00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:37.720 sort of questions the Doctor and that comes back 00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:41.380 later on where she's like, she has to die. um 00:24:41.380 --> 00:24:45.839 and she has to try and they're they're coming 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.259 up to the next loop i think and she has to try 00:24:48.259 --> 00:24:52.319 and like pre -warn herself that she has to die 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.400 um and she it's the first time that she sort 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.299 of goes why why do i have to do this this is 00:24:59.299 --> 00:25:02.400 terrible and awful why do i have to do this and 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.859 that becomes a fairly major that becomes a really 00:25:05.859 --> 00:25:09.470 major thing later on in the series um her questioning 00:25:09.470 --> 00:25:12.190 the doctor's methods and what he thinks is fine 00:25:12.190 --> 00:25:16.690 and okay is is not necessarily so um so it's 00:25:16.690 --> 00:25:18.390 cool that that shows up here for the first time 00:25:18.390 --> 00:25:27.589 yeah it's this episode does sort of in some ways 00:25:27.589 --> 00:25:29.769 feel like another day at the office i guess like 00:25:29.769 --> 00:25:32.849 it it's not particularly part of the big bad 00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:37.420 storyline um but it's It's very good for that 00:25:37.420 --> 00:25:40.579 type of episode. It doesn't feel like a slump. 00:25:40.579 --> 00:25:43.640 It's that exceptionally engaging. Will, what 00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:49.140 do you think of it? So, yeah, I thought this 00:25:49.140 --> 00:25:51.920 was a really great episode. I think, like both 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:55.579 of you, this is my standout of the set. It's 00:25:55.579 --> 00:25:57.920 the first time I've heard anything, I believe, 00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:01.220 from Ruchana Patel, and that's now a name that 00:26:01.220 --> 00:26:03.759 I look out for because of how much I enjoyed 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:06.950 this. I do like a good conceptual story and I 00:26:06.950 --> 00:26:10.190 think this handles it really well. I think one 00:26:10.190 --> 00:26:12.450 issue that it could have fallen into is that 00:26:12.450 --> 00:26:15.849 when you do this with the two time streams is 00:26:15.849 --> 00:26:16.849 that you can feel like you're just listening 00:26:16.849 --> 00:26:19.710 to the same scene twice. It's a bit of a criticism 00:26:19.710 --> 00:26:21.890 I have of flip -flop, I suppose, where once you 00:26:21.890 --> 00:26:24.269 listen to one disc, you kind of know what's going 00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:26.289 to happen in the other disc. Whereas I think 00:26:26.289 --> 00:26:30.390 here, I think it manages not to feel that way 00:26:30.390 --> 00:26:32.829 just by getting the storylines to branch out 00:26:32.829 --> 00:26:35.579 quite quickly. in, you know, relatively interesting 00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:37.359 ways. They end up in different places. Obviously, 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:39.680 one has the Doctor more active, one has Valerie 00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:42.559 more active and things like that. I think the 00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:46.799 Time Spider is a great idea for a villain. I 00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:49.380 wouldn't be surprised if we see them again in 00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:51.420 other sets. I know we do. Spoilers, we do see 00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:53.680 them again later down the line in this series. 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:56.160 But I mean, wouldn't be surprised if they end 00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.690 up elsewhere. And it really... does pack quite 00:27:00.690 --> 00:27:02.710 an emotional punch at the end. It's quite moving 00:27:02.710 --> 00:27:06.349 as we hear the Doctor and Valerie slowly succumb. 00:27:08.490 --> 00:27:11.609 And that, yeah, I found that to be actually very 00:27:11.609 --> 00:27:17.029 emotional and really well done. And yeah, it 00:27:17.029 --> 00:27:20.609 was overall just a really good story. I think 00:27:20.609 --> 00:27:23.170 that, I suppose one thing I didn't mention on 00:27:23.170 --> 00:27:27.170 the structure, the twist of the fact that it's 00:27:27.170 --> 00:27:29.549 not two parallel timelines, but it's actually... 00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:48.660 And so that was the first set. And it's a really 00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:50.740 good set. That's like three really, really solid 00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:55.720 episodes that have set up. an awful lot of what's 00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:58.420 going to be significant later on. We still have 00:27:58.420 --> 00:28:00.160 characters to meet and that kind of thing, but 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.059 we've just got a damn good TARDIS team who've 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:05.660 had three really good adventures together at 00:28:05.660 --> 00:28:09.579 this stage. And I do like the cliffhanger at 00:28:09.579 --> 00:28:16.019 the end of this first set with the Doctor suspecting 00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:19.819 it's a Time Lord that's involved, which actually 00:28:19.819 --> 00:28:23.559 has an interesting... resolution further down 00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:27.279 the line. And I'm glad that they did what they 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:29.160 did with it as opposed to the obvious thing. 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.180 So let's move on to set number two, which is 00:28:32.180 --> 00:28:33.819 the last one we're going to look at in this episode. 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.319 Although we're going to do Broken Hearts as well. 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.259 We're counting it as part of this set. Let's 00:28:39.259 --> 00:28:42.059 have a look at All of Time and Space, which is... 00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:50.960 It's hard to describe, actually. Blimey. Let's 00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:53.019 have a look at All of Time and Space, which is 00:28:53.019 --> 00:28:56.500 not the episode you'd expect to resolve the cliffhanger 00:28:56.500 --> 00:28:59.240 beforehand, certainly, but it all gets a bit 00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:01.900 meta and we deal with the idea of the Doctor 00:29:01.900 --> 00:29:04.480 and Valerie being characters in a fiction and 00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.480 all that kind of thing. It's something that's 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:09.460 been done before, it's something Big Finish has 00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:14.039 done before, and it's done quite well here. I 00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:16.660 do like the story, it does get a bit run -aroundy 00:29:16.660 --> 00:29:19.190 towards the end, but... As far as I'm concerned, 00:29:19.349 --> 00:29:21.970 the quality is remaining high with this one. 00:29:22.390 --> 00:29:25.130 Connor, do you want to talk to us about it? Yes, 00:29:25.130 --> 00:29:27.950 I think the closest analogue to this that I can 00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:31.349 think of is it always really reminds me of The 00:29:31.349 --> 00:29:33.910 Wizard of Time, which was the Roy Gill story 00:29:33.910 --> 00:29:39.150 from the fourth Dr. Leela and Margaret run, where 00:29:39.150 --> 00:29:45.160 it sort of takes... It sort of does Doctor Who 00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:47.460 within Doctor Who or a version of Doctor Who 00:29:47.460 --> 00:29:51.180 within Doctor Who. And it's based around this 00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:55.019 guy, Ellery Quest, as he tries to create Doctor 00:29:55.019 --> 00:30:05.420 Who. There's similarities to the actual origin 00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:09.380 of Doctor Who. It's quite funny. At one stage, 00:30:09.700 --> 00:30:13.599 the guy... uh they goes to meet and tries to 00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:15.640 pitch it to you at the theater tells him take 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:17.539 this to the bbc they're looking for something 00:30:17.539 --> 00:30:23.200 just like this um i always it always sticks in 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:25.440 my head as well the bit with the doctor and valerie 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:30.220 as like punch and judy puppets um that's a really 00:30:30.220 --> 00:30:32.619 really funny image and i like that they're having 00:30:32.619 --> 00:30:34.180 to hop around all the different mediums there's 00:30:34.180 --> 00:30:37.640 a bit with the turn up and the archers um I really 00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:40.339 like that. It's quite funny. There's that sort 00:30:40.339 --> 00:30:43.680 of offbeat humor to this, which I really appreciate. 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:47.579 Yeah, it's a good one. I like the tie it in as 00:30:47.579 --> 00:30:51.960 well with sort of the wider 11th Doctor story 00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.500 that was going on at sort of this point in the 00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:56.339 TV series where he's trying to get the universe 00:30:56.339 --> 00:31:00.380 to forget him. And that's where, you know, that's 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:02.460 how Ellery Quest sort of gets created. It was 00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:04.400 someone who was writing a biography of the Doctor. 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:08.819 The Doctor goes around and rewrites history and 00:31:08.819 --> 00:31:10.579 takes himself out of that, and this guy suddenly 00:31:10.579 --> 00:31:15.720 ends up writing a fictional story that's quite 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:18.599 similar to Doctor Who then. So, yeah, I like 00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:21.680 it. It's a really likeable story, and as I said, 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:25.720 there's a quirky sort of humour to it that I 00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:29.700 really enjoy. Yeah, it's definitely the quirky 00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:32.740 one so far. It's good word, quirky. What about 00:31:32.740 --> 00:31:36.279 you, Will? Yeah, I found this to be a... Great, 00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:40.500 fun, another conceptual episode. I know Tim Foley 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:42.759 was on a tear around this time and potentially 00:31:42.759 --> 00:31:45.839 I think still is. With this coming out, I think 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.920 a month after A Friend of the Family, which is 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:51.380 incredible. I think you've covered it on the 00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:54.619 podcast before. Sorry, spoilers, by the way, 00:31:54.660 --> 00:31:56.160 it's not actually written by other requests. 00:31:56.359 --> 00:32:02.440 I don't mean to throw him in it like that. Yeah, 00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:06.339 I found this story to be really fun. One thing 00:32:06.339 --> 00:32:09.019 that could have happened is that if you described 00:32:09.019 --> 00:32:11.339 it, it sounds like quite a visual idea with the 00:32:11.339 --> 00:32:14.460 Doctor and Valerie as these puppets and on comic 00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:16.240 strips and things like that. But it works really 00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:18.200 well on audio and they add some nice little sort 00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:21.599 of sound production things to make it flow very 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:25.819 well. And yeah, all the various guises that the 00:32:25.819 --> 00:32:27.500 Doctor and Valerie sort of take throughout are 00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:32.220 great. And yeah, overall, just a very... Just 00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:34.740 a really enjoyable story. There was one thing 00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:38.480 I remember that came up, which was they had a 00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:40.660 YouTube video where they did a quiz. They quizzed 00:32:40.660 --> 00:32:42.680 Jacob Duggan and Safiya Ingar on various aspects. 00:32:42.980 --> 00:32:45.279 And one of the questions was, what is the name 00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:48.259 of the cat in All of Time and Space? So I'll 00:32:48.259 --> 00:32:49.960 throw that to you two now and see if you can 00:32:49.960 --> 00:33:01.069 remember that. Nope. It's on the tip of my tongue, 00:33:01.190 --> 00:33:06.009 but I'm not getting it. It was Malpomene, which 00:33:06.009 --> 00:33:07.690 was, when I watched that, I got it, and I was 00:33:07.690 --> 00:33:09.950 like, why on earth do I remember what this cat 00:33:09.950 --> 00:33:14.329 was called? Because I'm sometimes so terrible 00:33:14.329 --> 00:33:15.869 with names, and I was like, oh yeah, yeah, Malpomene 00:33:15.869 --> 00:33:19.410 the cat, obviously. Well, now you've said it, 00:33:19.450 --> 00:33:26.839 obviously, yeah. I miss these YouTube videos. 00:33:27.140 --> 00:33:29.359 I've never seen that. That sounds quite good. 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:33.240 I have to admit, I've missed a lot of behind 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:34.859 -the -scenes stuff with this. I've never listened 00:33:34.859 --> 00:33:39.140 to the extras on this one and sort of wasn't 00:33:39.140 --> 00:33:40.859 really aware they were doing YouTube videos and 00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:45.220 stuff like that. I wish to call that. The next 00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:48.220 one we've got is The Yearn, which is very significant 00:33:48.220 --> 00:33:54.880 as far as the storyline goes. This is... This 00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:59.339 is really the episode that kicks what becomes 00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:04.240 the ongoing storyline off. This is the sort of 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:07.339 turning point where we're not just having fun 00:34:07.339 --> 00:34:09.800 and Geronimo -ing around the universe. Now this 00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:13.400 is where things start to get tied down a little 00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:17.260 bit by places and people and ideas and concepts 00:34:17.260 --> 00:34:21.599 and time itself. It introduces Roana, which is 00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:26.929 Valerie's... love interest throughout the rest 00:34:26.929 --> 00:34:30.590 of the series and obviously the yearn returns 00:34:30.590 --> 00:34:34.909 as well so we're starting to play in in this 00:34:34.909 --> 00:34:38.469 series toy box now we're really starting to figure 00:34:38.469 --> 00:34:42.269 out what it's about i'm glad that we've waited 00:34:42.269 --> 00:34:44.690 until midway through the second set to really 00:34:44.690 --> 00:34:47.869 start jumping into all of this because i think 00:34:47.869 --> 00:34:50.670 it's really important to have the time we've 00:34:50.670 --> 00:34:53.079 had with the doctor and valerie so far just For 00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:55.179 the most part, just having adventures, sort of 00:34:55.179 --> 00:34:58.000 quite conceptual stuff, as Will's pointed out. 00:34:58.099 --> 00:35:00.860 But nevertheless, they've been having adventures. 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:04.579 And this is where the adventures maybe start 00:35:04.579 --> 00:35:07.199 to take a little bit of a turn and sinister things 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.639 start to happen. And as we've already pointed 00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:13.380 out, Valerie's time in the TARDIS isn't altogether 00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:15.559 that pleasant. And I think this is kind of that 00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:18.300 point. So talk to us about the year and Connor. 00:35:19.579 --> 00:35:21.760 Yes, as you said, it's quite an important episode. 00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:27.780 It's one I have to admit that I struggled with 00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:31.840 a little bit. I found myself tuning out of it 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:34.320 quite frequently. I usually really enjoy base 00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:36.960 under siege stuff, but I find it difficult to 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:41.400 stick with this one. And that may well fully 00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:44.309 be on me. whenever i was listening to it just 00:35:44.309 --> 00:35:47.510 not not paying attention um but i don't remember 00:35:47.510 --> 00:35:49.809 a huge amount about it the standout absolutely 00:35:49.809 --> 00:35:54.949 is romana and you can see why um they wanted 00:35:54.949 --> 00:35:59.949 her to be a part of the series um as valerie's 00:35:59.949 --> 00:36:04.849 as valerie's girlfriend um so i really really 00:36:04.849 --> 00:36:07.210 enjoy those scenes whereas valerie's sort of 00:36:07.210 --> 00:36:09.809 falling in love with her and and they're getting 00:36:09.809 --> 00:36:14.010 together um And as I say, I enjoy a base under 00:36:14.010 --> 00:36:18.869 seed story, but I struggled a bit with, for whatever 00:36:18.869 --> 00:36:22.269 reason, with this one. And it hasn't really stuck 00:36:22.269 --> 00:36:25.309 with me, I must admit. I think this is more of 00:36:25.309 --> 00:36:30.250 a story about what it's setting up and what it's 00:36:30.250 --> 00:36:33.110 going to lead to than actually what happens in 00:36:33.110 --> 00:36:37.289 the story. Because I'm kind of the same. I couldn't 00:36:37.289 --> 00:36:39.349 give you a synopsis, but I can tell you why it's 00:36:39.349 --> 00:36:44.289 significant. Yeah, because Medruth features quite 00:36:44.289 --> 00:36:46.429 heavily throughout the later part of the series. 00:36:47.329 --> 00:36:49.789 Rowana obviously makes several return appearances 00:36:49.789 --> 00:36:53.110 and the urine themselves become important when 00:36:53.110 --> 00:36:58.389 it comes to the last set. But it's like all the 00:36:58.389 --> 00:37:01.550 elements are there, but I couldn't put the jigsaw 00:37:01.550 --> 00:37:07.510 of them together again now. I mean, this is also 00:37:07.510 --> 00:37:10.650 a series where a lot happens and a lot is interconnected. 00:37:10.849 --> 00:37:13.610 So from this point onwards, it does kind of get 00:37:13.610 --> 00:37:15.989 difficult to go, oh, that's the one where that 00:37:15.989 --> 00:37:20.750 happens, I guess. Or maybe I'm just being charitable 00:37:20.750 --> 00:37:24.010 to my own terrible memory here. Will, what do 00:37:24.010 --> 00:37:26.929 you think of the year? Yeah, so I wouldn't say 00:37:26.929 --> 00:37:29.789 quite to Connor's level of, you know, I didn't 00:37:29.789 --> 00:37:33.469 quite get into it. But equally, I think of all 00:37:33.469 --> 00:37:35.980 of them. the year might be the most sort of standard 00:37:35.980 --> 00:37:38.699 who of them it's a pretty sort of standard base 00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:41.099 under siege story for a lot of it i know at the 00:37:41.099 --> 00:37:44.300 beginning you sort of have um the doctor and 00:37:44.300 --> 00:37:49.360 valerie sort of joking a bit about like um you 00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:50.739 know oh they're not going to believe this and 00:37:50.739 --> 00:37:52.519 there's going to be like an uptight sort of guy 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:55.420 you know in charge and things like that and so 00:37:55.420 --> 00:37:57.300 they sort of lampshade it but equally that is 00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:00.380 that does happen that is what this story is um 00:38:00.380 --> 00:38:03.440 i think As Connor has said as well, the romance 00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:07.719 stuff is the best stuff for me. I find Valerie 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:10.619 Rana to be really believable. I find the Doctor 00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:12.599 sort of third wheeling and not really knowing 00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:18.179 what to do quite funny as well. And there's also 00:38:18.179 --> 00:38:20.619 the little bits of world building around Madrid 00:38:20.619 --> 00:38:22.780 as well. The Tracer Circle thing and stuff like 00:38:22.780 --> 00:38:25.400 that is just nice little touches as well. It's 00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:27.900 interesting for the year and going into the extras. 00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:30.480 Because I believe, if I remember correctly, not 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:33.320 only was this going to be episode two, but Rowanna 00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:35.260 wasn't going to come back and the truth wasn't 00:38:35.260 --> 00:38:36.719 going to come back or any of that originally. 00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:40.699 And that's a very interesting sort of look into 00:38:40.699 --> 00:38:43.420 a very different 11th Doctor Chronicles, because, 00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:45.519 of course, Rowanna's in load to the second half 00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:47.300 and we get a hold of other stories about the 00:38:47.300 --> 00:38:50.739 truth and things. And so, yeah, that's a strange 00:38:50.739 --> 00:38:53.960 look and sort of sideways glance into what could 00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:58.300 have been. So, yes, I think. Overall, I think 00:38:58.300 --> 00:39:02.800 the urn is a pretty good story, if, again, sort 00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:05.639 of more of a standard story, especially coming 00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:12.039 after the end and all the time and space. Yeah, 00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.679 it's... I don't think we're dropping in quality 00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:18.159 here at all. I just think that this episode has 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:20.760 different things to do than everything we've 00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:24.150 had so far, because all of a sudden... The series 00:39:24.150 --> 00:39:27.190 isn't about the Doctor and Valerie exclusively 00:39:27.190 --> 00:39:32.210 anymore. But yeah, it does what it needs to do, 00:39:32.269 --> 00:39:35.010 and it definitely pushes the series forwards. 00:39:35.510 --> 00:39:41.969 So next up is Curiosity Shop, which I've got 00:39:41.969 --> 00:39:45.409 to be honest, it isn't my favourite. I've seen 00:39:45.409 --> 00:39:47.389 this one be a bit divisive. I've seen that there 00:39:47.389 --> 00:39:49.889 are people that really like it. It just doesn't 00:39:49.889 --> 00:39:52.230 quite work for me, and I can't quite identify 00:39:52.230 --> 00:39:56.190 at which point. doesn't particularly work. I 00:39:56.190 --> 00:40:00.269 think that everyone involved just seems to be 00:40:00.269 --> 00:40:02.949 giving it everything they can. It is a good script. 00:40:03.250 --> 00:40:06.730 There's a nice little concept there and the idea 00:40:06.730 --> 00:40:09.929 of the Doctor forcing Valerie to literally tear 00:40:09.929 --> 00:40:13.210 herself apart and all this kind of thing. It's 00:40:13.210 --> 00:40:17.460 really good stuff. I just... For some reason, 00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:19.500 the whole thing just doesn't come together. And 00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:22.079 I just don't think it's something that was destined 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:28.800 to all come together. It does kind of give us 00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:32.059 a pretty decent emotional gut punch. And I'm 00:40:32.059 --> 00:40:35.679 glad that carries on to Broken Hearts. I'm glad 00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:37.440 that, you know, we did get Broken Hearts. We 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:41.099 were never meant to. But it just, yeah, the episode 00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:44.440 for me, it's just never going to be my favourite. 00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:46.769 And like I say. I think everybody involved is 00:40:46.769 --> 00:40:49.309 brilliant. It's sort of slightly heartbreaking 00:40:49.309 --> 00:40:53.190 to say I'm not a big fan of this one, but Gus 00:40:53.190 --> 00:40:55.909 gives us a good script. Dublin and Ingar give 00:40:55.909 --> 00:40:57.909 us great performances. There are some wonderful 00:40:57.909 --> 00:41:03.030 ideas in there. And this is kind of the Doctor 00:41:03.030 --> 00:41:06.929 dealing with a war while not really being the 00:41:06.929 --> 00:41:10.730 Doctor. And, you know, obviously... When Does 00:41:10.730 --> 00:41:13.030 the Doctor Stop Being the Doctor is a theme in 00:41:13.030 --> 00:41:16.269 this series and it's a theme in the series that 00:41:16.269 --> 00:41:19.389 this is set around. So it definitely has its 00:41:19.389 --> 00:41:22.469 place. I just don't think the production fully 00:41:22.469 --> 00:41:27.130 comes together for me. But you may have differing 00:41:27.130 --> 00:41:31.610 opinions. Connor, what's yours? I would not call 00:41:31.610 --> 00:41:35.489 myself a fan of this either. I have no problem 00:41:35.489 --> 00:41:37.630 marking it out and saying that this is unfortunately 00:41:37.630 --> 00:41:45.110 the weakest episode in the series. It's a shame 00:41:45.110 --> 00:41:50.190 because I haven't listened to the extras, but 00:41:50.190 --> 00:41:54.750 I understand from it that Jacob Dudman wasn't 00:41:54.750 --> 00:41:57.849 keen on having to perform all the classic Doctors 00:41:57.849 --> 00:42:01.800 that he wasn't familiar with. And if this is 00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:04.260 the thing, Jacob Dudman could do a really good 00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:06.880 impression of the, like a really damn good impression 00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:11.940 of the 11th Doctor. And beyond that, there are 00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:13.760 some that he's good at, and then there's some 00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:17.980 that's, certainly in this story, he's being made 00:42:17.980 --> 00:42:22.039 to do them for the sake of it. I think it's obviously 00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:24.420 come from, okay, we've got this guy in who's 00:42:24.420 --> 00:42:27.940 a fantastic impressionist. Let's make him do 00:42:27.940 --> 00:42:30.440 all the voices. But they haven't actually given 00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:32.940 any regard to whether or not he can do the voices 00:42:32.940 --> 00:42:36.719 to the same quality as the main one, the role 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:39.579 that he's playing throughout the series. And 00:42:39.579 --> 00:42:44.179 it's just a case of him, I think, being made 00:42:44.179 --> 00:42:47.599 to overextend his talents and it not working. 00:42:47.780 --> 00:42:53.519 And it falls very, very flat as a result. I mentioned 00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:55.659 earlier on that I'm not a big fan of the 11th 00:42:55.659 --> 00:42:59.179 Doctor. The way he behaves towards Valerie in 00:42:59.179 --> 00:43:01.920 this is just the perfect example of that. I don't 00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:08.340 think he's a particularly nice person. That's 00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:10.920 sort of the point, I think, of The Eleventh Doctor 00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:13.579 and the way Stephen Moffat wrote him sometimes 00:43:13.579 --> 00:43:16.300 is that the Doctor is not a nice person. He's 00:43:16.300 --> 00:43:19.340 an alien from outer space and he's so completely 00:43:19.340 --> 00:43:22.639 different to us that it's not possible to say, 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.280 oh yes, he's a nice person or he's not a nice 00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:32.900 person. But there's a callousness that's on show 00:43:32.900 --> 00:43:36.639 here that's really unlikable. And it's just not 00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:42.820 my sort of Doctor Who, I'm afraid. And it's not 00:43:42.820 --> 00:43:46.780 Jacob Dubman's fault by any means. The fault 00:43:46.780 --> 00:43:48.900 lies entirely with the decision to make him do 00:43:48.900 --> 00:43:53.579 all of these voices that he can't do to the same 00:43:53.579 --> 00:43:55.719 extent as he can do the 11th Doctor's voice. 00:43:56.349 --> 00:44:03.909 and it doesn't work, unfortunately. I think you 00:44:03.909 --> 00:44:07.309 make a very good point about Eleven not being 00:44:07.309 --> 00:44:12.869 particularly nice. I want to like the Doctor 00:44:12.869 --> 00:44:17.210 as a character through any incarnation, and I'm 00:44:17.210 --> 00:44:20.909 happy the Doctor 2 be challenging, the Doctor 00:44:20.909 --> 00:44:24.909 2 have. moral quandaries and all that kind of 00:44:24.909 --> 00:44:26.710 thing. I love the concept of the war doctor. 00:44:26.869 --> 00:44:30.670 I quite liked sort of the early Capaldi era, 00:44:30.769 --> 00:44:33.230 am I a good man, sort of soul -searching stuff. 00:44:33.289 --> 00:44:36.090 It's a shame that a lot of that never quite got 00:44:36.090 --> 00:44:39.409 developed as far as it could. But you're right, 00:44:39.530 --> 00:44:45.150 here he's just nasty. And it's perfectly believable. 00:44:45.170 --> 00:44:47.869 This is something I can see the 11th Doctor doing. 00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:51.360 But at the same time, it's not particularly something 00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:56.559 I want to see the 11th Doctor doing. Anyway, 00:44:56.619 --> 00:44:59.199 Will, what do you think of Curiosity Shop? So 00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:02.860 I think I find Curiosity Shop to probably be 00:45:02.860 --> 00:45:06.179 the most frustrating story of this run, in that 00:45:06.179 --> 00:45:07.960 there are actually a bunch of things that I like 00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:09.440 about it, but there's also a bunch of things 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:12.539 I'm not so keen on. So I guess if I start this 00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:15.820 off that I like, so we've got a story written 00:45:15.820 --> 00:45:18.860 here by James Goss, you know, Mr Torchwood. basically 00:45:18.860 --> 00:45:21.820 at this point and i think um if you put if you 00:45:21.820 --> 00:45:23.679 wanted a story with a sort of dark oppressive 00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:25.400 tone that this has he's definitely the guy to 00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:30.619 go for it i i like sort of the evolving relationship 00:45:30.619 --> 00:45:32.480 between valerie and golas i think some of that's 00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:36.900 done pretty well and i like um some of the stuff 00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:39.239 with the way the doctor progresses in that you 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:41.650 know we see him sort of in the background first 00:45:41.650 --> 00:45:43.389 he's not he doesn't want to get involved at all 00:45:43.389 --> 00:45:45.230 then he wants to leave it to authority and then 00:45:45.230 --> 00:45:47.670 gradually he starts trying he starts trying to 00:45:47.670 --> 00:45:50.449 help people before finally becoming himself and 00:45:50.449 --> 00:45:53.150 those little moments where so someone's doing 00:45:53.150 --> 00:45:55.630 his voice of the 11th doctor impersonating these 00:45:55.630 --> 00:45:57.590 other doctors but sometimes his 11th doctor voice 00:45:57.590 --> 00:45:59.510 will fully break through and sometimes that works 00:45:59.510 --> 00:46:04.650 really well um in terms of the stuff that i wasn't 00:46:04.650 --> 00:46:09.860 so high on um i found that so Basically, from 00:46:09.860 --> 00:46:12.599 the beginning of the story, when you hear that 00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:15.920 he's impersonating the first Doctor, you kind 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:18.119 of know where the story is going to go. And it 00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:21.260 does just sort of go there, I think, in that 00:46:21.260 --> 00:46:23.559 you get Valerie goes to see the Doctor, Valerie 00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:25.300 goes back to see Golas, Valerie goes to see the 00:46:25.300 --> 00:46:27.860 Doctor and so on. And I think over an hour, it 00:46:27.860 --> 00:46:31.699 struggles to really hold my attention for all 00:46:31.699 --> 00:46:33.500 of that through. I think it's seven previous 00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:37.519 Doctors. And so that was one aspect. Another 00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:39.760 one, I think. connor talks about is that i think 00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:41.860 dublin's fantastic throughout this series and 00:46:41.860 --> 00:46:47.139 his 11th doctor is very very good um but he can't 00:46:47.139 --> 00:46:50.599 do that for all the doctors so his 11th the one 00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:53.420 reason his 11th doctor is so good is that he 00:46:53.420 --> 00:46:55.079 doesn't just have an 11th doctor voice he has 00:46:55.079 --> 00:46:58.260 a variety of 11th doctor voices that he can use 00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:00.679 for whatever the situation needs which really 00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:03.619 you know helps his performance whereas for these 00:47:03.619 --> 00:47:06.880 other doctors It is just a little bit of an impression 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.719 and he feels a bit stretched because of it. I 00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:11.139 know they're not meant to be the actual previous 00:47:11.139 --> 00:47:16.260 doctors, but even so. And I think another point 00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:21.800 that I had with it was that I guess we follow 00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:24.860 Valerie throughout this story. And then at the 00:47:24.860 --> 00:47:26.900 end, it kind of feels like the stuff with Valerie 00:47:26.900 --> 00:47:29.480 is wrapped a bit too neatly. I know this point 00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:31.079 is a little bit moot is what we're about to talk 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:35.440 about, but you get like. When I was re -listening 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:38.199 to this for the podcast, it struck me that in 00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:42.139 the end, there's a bit where I think it's when 00:47:42.139 --> 00:47:44.519 Valerie's dying and the doctor starts saying 00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:46.340 something and Valerie says, it's not about you. 00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:50.380 And then in, you know, this is about me. And 00:47:50.380 --> 00:47:52.579 then in all the time and space after Ellery finds 00:47:52.579 --> 00:47:54.239 out it's not real, again, the doctor starts saying 00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:55.679 something and Valerie says, it's not about you. 00:47:56.500 --> 00:47:58.780 And then there would have been a perfect time 00:47:58.780 --> 00:48:00.579 here for Valerie to say that and she doesn't. 00:48:01.059 --> 00:48:02.840 Of course, we do get that later, but that was 00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:05.239 something that struck me. at the time when I 00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:11.139 listened to it. So yeah, overall, a bit mixed 00:48:11.139 --> 00:48:15.659 on it, but yeah, there's stuff in it that doesn't 00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:19.059 quite work for me. And considering we're two 00:48:19.059 --> 00:48:22.780 full sets in here, to have only one story that 00:48:22.780 --> 00:48:26.579 we've not all just completely raved about effectively 00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:30.119 is still a damn good achievement. The hit rate 00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:35.489 of this series is very, very good. So we're definitely 00:48:35.489 --> 00:48:38.469 allowed to have one that we're not so keen on. 00:48:40.429 --> 00:48:45.090 The one thing I can say about this is it's still 00:48:45.090 --> 00:48:47.590 doing something conceptual. It's still an idea. 00:48:47.949 --> 00:48:53.730 It's not, you know, generic of the Daleks. You 00:48:53.730 --> 00:48:56.010 know, it's not a story that we've heard an awful 00:48:56.010 --> 00:48:58.650 lot of before. So it gets points for that, I 00:48:58.650 --> 00:49:05.719 guess. And this next story that we've got to 00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:06.980 discuss, the last one we're going to discuss 00:49:06.980 --> 00:49:09.639 today, Broken Hearts, it's kind of interesting 00:49:09.639 --> 00:49:14.179 how this one came about because obviously it 00:49:14.179 --> 00:49:17.179 wasn't part of the original plan. It wasn't released 00:49:17.179 --> 00:49:19.179 as one of the sets. I believe it was recorded 00:49:19.179 --> 00:49:21.159 last. It was recorded after the rest of the series 00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:23.480 over and done with. Although if either of you 00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:26.079 know better, please do tell me I'm wrong. No, 00:49:26.119 --> 00:49:29.000 you're correct. It was. Yeah. Okay. Thought it 00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:35.170 was. And it does kind of answer what happens 00:49:35.170 --> 00:49:37.070 in this story, because this story kind of leaves 00:49:37.070 --> 00:49:39.650 a lot of stuff unsaid. And it would have been 00:49:39.650 --> 00:49:44.090 exceptionally jarring to go from Curiosity Shot 00:49:44.090 --> 00:49:48.730 to Spirit of the Season. So I'm very glad that 00:49:48.730 --> 00:49:53.110 Broken Hearts exists. So it's an absolutely cracking, 00:49:53.309 --> 00:49:58.349 more or less two -hander. Really does kind of 00:49:58.349 --> 00:50:01.059 explore... that idea that connor was discussing 00:50:01.059 --> 00:50:04.159 of the 11th doctor not being particularly nice 00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:09.780 and you know valerie genuinely sort of has enough 00:50:09.780 --> 00:50:11.920 of him at this point she's like i'm not doing 00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:14.559 this anymore you're horrible go away leave me 00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:18.340 alone um and it's a shame we never got something 00:50:18.340 --> 00:50:21.699 like this on telly because it's it's a great 00:50:21.699 --> 00:50:25.079 idea and you know the 11th doctor deliberately 00:50:26.500 --> 00:50:29.440 destroys amy's faith in him and we don't get 00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:31.820 a reaction like this and i wish we had i actually 00:50:31.820 --> 00:50:36.239 wish we'd have had that just outright fury um 00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:40.219 and it's it's really really well done here and 00:50:40.219 --> 00:50:43.980 if nothing else this episode is absolutely a 00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:46.719 testament to just how damn good these two leads 00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:51.539 are um just brilliant stuff uh so connor talk 00:50:51.539 --> 00:50:55.250 to us about broken hearts I think it's fair to 00:50:55.250 --> 00:50:58.530 say that certainly from the perspective of how 00:50:58.530 --> 00:51:00.769 it impacts the Doctor and Valerie's relationship 00:51:00.769 --> 00:51:03.070 for the rest of the series, it's the most important 00:51:03.070 --> 00:51:06.710 episode of the whole run, certainly to my mind, 00:51:06.769 --> 00:51:10.769 and I found it really difficult to listen to 00:51:10.769 --> 00:51:13.250 the later sets, and particularly there's times 00:51:13.250 --> 00:51:15.909 towards the end when things are getting apocalyptic 00:51:15.909 --> 00:51:20.690 and the Doctor's not quite living up to what 00:51:20.690 --> 00:51:24.619 he should be. And Valerie's getting really cross 00:51:24.619 --> 00:51:26.820 and annoyed with him. I find it really hard not 00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:29.900 to look back at Broken Hearts. And that sort 00:51:29.900 --> 00:51:32.280 of colours their interactions for the rest of 00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:39.320 the series for me. As I've said, I'm not a big 00:51:39.320 --> 00:51:41.900 fan of The Eleventh Doctor. And I've sort of 00:51:41.900 --> 00:51:44.079 given the reasons for that in that. And certainly 00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:46.139 on display in Curiosity Shop, I think there's 00:51:46.139 --> 00:51:51.150 a nastiness there. that Curiosity Shop puts on 00:51:51.150 --> 00:51:54.250 full show. I like this story a lot because there 00:51:54.250 --> 00:51:59.190 are consequences for that. And it's Valerie taking 00:51:59.190 --> 00:52:04.650 the doctor fully to task for the way he treated 00:52:04.650 --> 00:52:07.050 her. And he absolutely deserves it. And there's 00:52:07.050 --> 00:52:10.809 no beating around that bush. The way he behaves 00:52:10.809 --> 00:52:14.250 towards her in Curiosity Shop is absolutely appalling. 00:52:14.780 --> 00:52:18.820 and this is the consequences, and he completely 00:52:18.820 --> 00:52:22.000 and utterly deserves it. Dodman's performance 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:30.480 is fantastic. There's a bit in this where I think 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:33.039 Valerie says, I wish you were dead, and he says 00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:35.619 something along the lines of, yes, so do I. And 00:52:35.619 --> 00:52:38.260 you can feel his heart, the Doctor's two hearts 00:52:38.260 --> 00:52:42.070 breaking, and yours along with it. It's absolute 00:52:42.070 --> 00:52:44.610 rock bottom for the Doctor. I cannot think of 00:52:44.610 --> 00:52:52.250 a time when the Doctor was lower. And he has 00:52:52.250 --> 00:52:55.230 no one to blame in this but himself because the 00:52:55.230 --> 00:52:57.090 way he treated Valerie before was appalling. 00:52:57.250 --> 00:52:59.730 It was such a necessary story after Curiosity 00:52:59.730 --> 00:53:03.750 Shop and I'm glad that they went back and did 00:53:03.750 --> 00:53:05.989 it. It would have felt very strange going straight 00:53:05.989 --> 00:53:09.179 from this into the next story without. or going 00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:11.599 from Curiosity Shop into the next story without 00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:15.260 some sort of acknowledgement. So I'm very, very 00:53:15.260 --> 00:53:18.239 glad that they did this. Yeah, considering it 00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:21.199 was, I don't want to say thrown together, but 00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:27.840 it certainly was sort of done last. It really 00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:29.800 does have an impact on the whole series and I 00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:31.659 can't imagine the rest of the series without 00:53:31.659 --> 00:53:35.670 it being there. One day... I might actually listen 00:53:35.670 --> 00:53:37.690 to the whole run without it and just see if it 00:53:37.690 --> 00:53:40.170 works, if it works the same way and all that 00:53:40.170 --> 00:53:44.010 kind of thing. But yeah, it's a really, really 00:53:44.010 --> 00:53:47.230 significant episode considering it was not meant 00:53:47.230 --> 00:53:49.989 to exist. Will, what are your thoughts on it? 00:53:50.050 --> 00:53:51.909 You said this was your favourite, so go ahead. 00:53:52.550 --> 00:53:54.829 So you can probably guess some of my thoughts 00:53:54.829 --> 00:53:58.130 on it. So I remember when this was announced, 00:53:58.670 --> 00:54:02.010 Lisa McMullen did a big sort of thread on what 00:54:02.010 --> 00:54:04.539 was then Twitter. sort of explaining why she 00:54:04.539 --> 00:54:06.980 wanted to write it, and she did various interviews 00:54:06.980 --> 00:54:08.980 and said, like, if people don't like it, she'll 00:54:08.980 --> 00:54:10.980 give a refund and whatever. And you can risk, 00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:14.219 I think, overhyping it, but luckily, in this 00:54:14.219 --> 00:54:17.039 case, this is fantastic, I thought. I just thought 00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:18.900 this is just such an excellent character piece. 00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:26.440 I think McMullin really dives down into who the 00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:32.210 11th Doctor is here. Like, when he's... he's 00:54:32.210 --> 00:54:35.489 facing this conflict and at first his impression 00:54:35.489 --> 00:54:38.050 is that to treat it with humour he starts making 00:54:38.050 --> 00:54:40.190 jokes and Valerie's not having it and then he 00:54:40.190 --> 00:54:42.289 becomes a bit self -pitying and self -effacing 00:54:42.289 --> 00:54:44.449 and Valerie's not having that either and then 00:54:44.449 --> 00:54:47.309 he gets angry and then gradually he sort of peels 00:54:47.309 --> 00:54:51.809 through the layers to find someone who like desperately 00:54:51.809 --> 00:54:54.050 doesn't want to hurt people but is absolutely 00:54:54.050 --> 00:54:57.130 capable of it and I think Dougman also performs 00:54:57.130 --> 00:55:02.429 this throughout just excellently and It also 00:55:02.429 --> 00:55:05.329 ties into this sort of the Moffat idea from this 00:55:05.329 --> 00:55:08.170 time that the doctor isn't incapable of being 00:55:08.170 --> 00:55:10.570 cruel or cowardly or actually perfectly capable 00:55:10.570 --> 00:55:13.210 of it, but they strive not to do that. And it's 00:55:13.210 --> 00:55:17.010 I think it tackles it really well. The scene 00:55:17.010 --> 00:55:19.869 where I really loved, I know Conrad already mentioned 00:55:19.869 --> 00:55:21.690 the scene I really loved as well, is the bit 00:55:21.690 --> 00:55:25.110 where we sort of go back to House of Masks and 00:55:25.110 --> 00:55:28.610 Valerie asks the doctor how many people he's 00:55:28.610 --> 00:55:30.769 killed. not including the time war because they've 00:55:30.769 --> 00:55:32.530 already spoken about that and that it was like 00:55:32.530 --> 00:55:36.369 necessary evil and things and uh but how many 00:55:36.369 --> 00:55:37.869 people has he killed if you don't include that 00:55:37.869 --> 00:55:40.510 and the doctor is trying to sort of ostensibly 00:55:40.510 --> 00:55:42.570 calm valerie down but in reality keep himself 00:55:42.570 --> 00:55:46.670 calm because of the you know the um weaponized 00:55:46.670 --> 00:55:48.809 weather that's coming which also by the way is 00:55:48.809 --> 00:55:50.630 just such an excellent idea especially for a 00:55:50.630 --> 00:55:53.489 story like this and then he does snap and uh 00:55:53.489 --> 00:55:55.329 you know he says he's killed too many people 00:55:55.329 --> 00:55:57.789 and he can remember all of it and i i thought 00:55:58.300 --> 00:56:00.539 That whole scene was just great. There's a great 00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:03.739 sort of emotional climax in the story and Dortmund 00:56:03.739 --> 00:56:06.519 performs it brilliantly. It's one of his best 00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:08.659 moments, I think I've heard him do at Big Finish. 00:56:08.900 --> 00:56:13.300 And I remember I watched, I listened to this 00:56:13.300 --> 00:56:16.679 story while out on a walk. And I actually, when 00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:18.719 I got back, I came in through the door and I 00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:20.199 went, sat on the stairs and I listened to that 00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:21.519 scene again because I just thought it was done 00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:25.500 so brilliantly. And then I haven't even talked 00:56:25.500 --> 00:56:27.360 about the stuff with the robots, which again. 00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:31.420 i just really enjoyed it it ends up being uh 00:56:31.420 --> 00:56:33.960 actually quite heartbreaking which is potentially 00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:35.360 what you wouldn't expect with these two robots 00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:40.400 talking and just seeing them sort of become more 00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:43.000 alive i suppose the story goes through and develop 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:46.639 the relationship and i think uh the way it all 00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:49.099 comes together at the end is just such a great 00:56:49.099 --> 00:56:52.300 exploration and yeah and um i think you mentioned 00:56:52.300 --> 00:56:54.679 it as well they're talking about the doctor and 00:56:54.679 --> 00:56:57.340 amy but you do start to think about Or are there 00:56:57.340 --> 00:56:59.940 things you could do this type of thing in other 00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:02.480 eras, like the Seventh Doctor and Ace after Curse 00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:05.559 of Fenric or something? It's just such a great 00:57:05.559 --> 00:57:09.960 idea and done very well. Yeah, it's a really 00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:13.579 simple story. I'm assuming it's done on the minimalist 00:57:13.579 --> 00:57:15.800 of big Finnish budgets there's ever been, but 00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:22.230 it's just so powerful and effective. I really 00:57:22.230 --> 00:57:24.949 do think this series needed it. The series was 00:57:24.949 --> 00:57:28.030 going very well, but it needed this, and it really 00:57:28.030 --> 00:57:32.289 gives us sort of a big moment, pretty much slap 00:57:32.289 --> 00:57:36.289 bang in the middle. And it also meant they kind 00:57:36.289 --> 00:57:39.170 of got to ape the format of Series 7 by having 00:57:39.170 --> 00:57:41.750 an individual special slap bang in the middle, 00:57:41.809 --> 00:57:46.570 so nice coincidence there as well. So that's 00:57:46.570 --> 00:57:50.250 our first... two sets and the bonus extra little 00:57:50.250 --> 00:57:53.469 bit done. So we'll come back another time in 00:57:53.469 --> 00:57:55.030 another episode and we'll discuss the second 00:57:55.030 --> 00:57:57.269 half of this series and, you know, head into 00:57:57.269 --> 00:58:00.650 that big Daliki finale that I just think works 00:58:00.650 --> 00:58:06.070 brilliantly. But I've really enjoyed just chatting 00:58:06.070 --> 00:58:10.050 about this so far and it feels like we've covered 00:58:10.050 --> 00:58:14.110 sort of two distinct mini, I guess, phases of 00:58:14.110 --> 00:58:16.449 this era. You know, there's... There's the bit 00:58:16.449 --> 00:58:18.510 that builds up the Doctor and Valerie's relationship, 00:58:18.630 --> 00:58:21.409 and then there's the bit that breaks it down. 00:58:21.769 --> 00:58:25.030 And it feels like we've gone through pretty much 00:58:25.030 --> 00:58:28.590 a whole arc with these characters already. So 00:58:28.590 --> 00:58:31.110 we shall leave it there. We will be back for 00:58:31.110 --> 00:58:34.889 part two of these 11th Doctor Chronicles Series 00:58:34.889 --> 00:58:37.730 7V. I'm sticking with that, Series 7V. It works. 00:58:38.909 --> 00:58:42.090 So I will say a huge thank you and goodbye to 00:58:42.090 --> 00:58:46.320 Connor. Thank you very much. And a huge thank 00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:49.880 you and goodbye to Will. Thanks very much, and 00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:53.280 ta -ra. And it has been good to have you on at 00:58:53.280 --> 00:59:00.320 long last. Yes, it's been good to be on. We'll 00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:02.800 definitely do more. At least come back for part 00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:06.739 two. Yes, I promise I will, yeah. That's the 00:59:06.739 --> 00:59:10.960 plan. But we'll leave it there, and we'll be 00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:12.920 back with more Spodcasting very soon. Goodbye 00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:13.099 now.