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Hello and welcome to another episode of Is This Just Fantasy? The podcasts were every

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other week. Two nerds get together to rate, read and review a fantasy novel. I’m your

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host, Geordie Bailey.

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And I’m Commander Duncan of the Border Force. That's right, there's an actual character

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this time. It's so rare to find a Duncan in a fantasy book. Weirdly. I wouldn't think

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they'd be this rare.

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One day, Duncan, we're going to go back to the book that got you named and we'll read

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the novelization of Macbeth and then you can make jokes about it galore.

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That would be amazing. Macbeth the King.

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Macbeth the King, that's right.

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That's named after it.

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I happen to remember that because I was recently re-going back through an old episode of ours

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for Sisters of Steel and Shadow and for a very specific reason. But let's not get distracted

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straight away because we are reviewing Bonesmith by, oh Nicky...

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Pal Preto.

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Thank you, Duncan.

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This was your recommendation?

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It is, I’m very excited to talk about this book. This is actually a relatively blind

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read for me. This is a Christmas present from my little sister. She got it for me. I had

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many books I listed and I think there was a level of nervousness. She went, I’ve gone

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off piece. I’ve bought you something you didn't ask for. But I’m confident this should be

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up your alley when it comes to fantasy literature.

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Interesting. And a strong recommendation because your sister hasn't let us down before.

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She certainly has not. Her fantasy knowledge I think probably exceeds mine at this point.

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Maybe we have our own different niches. I don't think she's coming near me when it comes

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to Sword and Sorcery pulp, but she's read so many books. So yeah, when she makes a recommendation

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I do take it very seriously. So I am very excited to share our thoughts on Bonesmith.

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But before we get into that, Geordie, have you been reading, watching, experiencing any

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other fantasy you want to share with us?

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See? Not exactly, but there's a reason why I was checking out our episode on Sisters

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of Steel and Shadow. Sword and Shadow?

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But it's Sword and Shadow.

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Sword and Shadow, okay. Two years later we still haven't gotten this one.

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The reason why I was revisiting it is that I have been reading, rereading Bernard Cornwall's

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Warlord trilogy. I have read The Winter King and the follow up Enemy of God.

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Is this off the fact that it's got a TV adaptation recently?

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I don't think that was recently, Duncan. I think that was like two years ago.

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Oh. Fair enough. Still on my to watch list. I’ve only just got round to the Fallout TV

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show. I was like, oh my god, this is amazing! Someone should have told me.

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Sorry, go on.

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It has nothing to do with the TV show. I have not seen it. The moment I saw the wigs in

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the trailer I was like, not for me. No, I was um, why did I start reading it again?

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I think you mentioned Bernard Cornwall last week and it just set me off. Had an amazing

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time. Those are fantastic books. For those who are not in the know, they are stories of

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King Arthur, but told from a very, um, obviously not historically accurate, because King Arthur

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did not exist. However, they are told from a, an emphasis on trying to represent the

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particular period of time where he should have existed. So the uh, the 400s, 450s, 60s,

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60s and trying to really root it in that time period.

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It's very rounded, isn't it? Like, it's about making these very real people and cutting

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out the more, well not the more, all of the fantastical elements.

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Yeah, all of the fantastical elements are sight of hand. They're about tradition, they're

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about trickery, they're about the power of belief, but there's a logical explanation

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for pretty much all of Merlin's tricks.

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And you liked it?

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I really did. I really liked it. I not only had I forgotten how good they are, I’m pretty

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sure I just appreciate them more now.

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It's certainly something I want to go back and revisit. As a child, I was a massive fan

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of Bernard Cornwell, reading both his Saxon and his sharp stories. And I think The Winter

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King, because it's a, it's a neat trilogy, um, and obviously those other two series are

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massive. It's, I think it's a much more smooth introduction to his work.

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Yeah, fantastic stuff. And it's the ones that Bernard Cornwell says he's basically the most

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proud of. He thinks that's his best stuff. And I tend to agree with him. I mean, not

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that I’ve read his sharp novels, so.

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But yeah, that's what I’ve been doing. I’ve been rereading those. I’ve caught up with,

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um, I listened to a previous episode on Sisters of Sword and Shadow, and it holds up. Although,

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my critique was great, and I think we were actually more prudent and delicate than I

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even remember us being, but I did realise that there is a solid, like, five minutes

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of radio silence at the end of that episode where I made an editing mistake, and I do

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not have the original file, so I can't fix it.

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Oh. Well, at least it was at the end. People can turn it off at that point.

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But Duncan, in the meantime, have you been up to anything?

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Yes, yes, I have. And it's a continuation of what I’ve talked about several times this

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year. Geordie, I have like a three month subscription to Kindle Unlimited for like three quid. Excellent

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Christmas deal. And on Kindle Unlimited, they have basically all of Dynamite's comics, and

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Dynamite published Red Sonja. Sword and Sorcery absolutely love the character. I’m sure she

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will appear on this podcast in a more formal fashion this year. Like, that is one of my

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kind of year goals. And I read yet another series. This is Red Sonja Mother, written

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by Mirka Andolfo. And it was very different to some of the other stories I’ve read so

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far. Red Sonja, for those who don't know, is a very classical Sword and Sorcery heroine

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character, set in the same universe as Cain the Barbarian. And she gets many different

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spins on her. Every time a new production guy, a new writing team comes in, they kind

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of do like a soft reboot. The most recent one, this mother, title kind of gives away

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a little bit, goes down a very lone wolf and cub story angle, which is not 100% new for

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the character.

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Sure. So we're talking about Logan, we're talking about the Mandalorian, that sort of

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thing. A tough badass looks after a little kid.

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Exactly. And it's one of those ones, I think we've had this a few times on the podcast,

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where you look at something and go, right, this is, I think it was in Green Rider, I

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first said this, and I thought this might come up later. When something's like a 10

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out of 10, 7 out of 10. When something's like, this is really good for what you're going

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for, but I just feel like what you're going for, maybe it's just not the most exciting

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idea at this point.

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Does Red Sonja not lend herself to a lone wolf and cub story? Is that what you're saying?

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It's not what I’m saying. Red Sonja lends herself quite well, because she is, or can,

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has been or can be portrayed as very much a solitary soldier of fortune. I think that

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works. I think what is kind of disappointing here, particularly compared to the last Red

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Sonja series I read, which took a very high political angle, multiple factions, the moral

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decision making when you're looking after loads of soldiers, coming to terms with your

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own limits of your abilities, even though you're the best swordsman in the world. Having

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Red Sonja meet a kid and, you know, bond with the child, look after the child, have a bit

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of a separation, and you get to the end and the ending of this arc is everything that

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you think it's going to be. It's The Last of Us, it's Empire of the Vampire, it's a

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group of cultists being like, if we sacrifice the child, we may save the world. And Red

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Sonja being like, no, I care for her too much. I will make the personally righteous choice,

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even though it may leave her greater sacrifice. And I was just like, there's nothing wrong.

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If this was the first of this story I’d ever read, I would probably call it great. But

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I just don't think you're innovating at all in a lone wolf and cub story, even if your

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execution I think is really well done. Sure, so despite the execution, the lack of ambition,

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the way it plays it safe really detracts from the whole. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Foreshadowing

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is a literary device in which- What I’ve been trying to say in a rambling fashion, thank

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you very much mate. So do you recommend to fans of Red Sonja, do you recommend to non-fans

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of Red Sonja, I recommend the Warlord trilogy to pretty much anyone who can, yeah, anyone

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who enjoys historical fiction, that has a sort of war focus to it. I would recommend

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this to existing fans of Red Sonja, but this certainly wouldn't be the entry point for

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the character. Talking of entry points actually, just a little bit more Red Sonja. Geordie,

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exciting news, the Red Sonja movie. Yeah. The new one. It was finished filming in like

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2023 and they've been looking for someone to distribute it for two years, not a good

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sign, but it finally has a distributor just for the UK and Europe. Wow. So it's coming

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to cinemas near us. Well, I’ll definitely go see it man. I mean, just to commemorate

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it, if anything else. So it's not releasing in the US. At the moment, it will not have

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a theatrical release in the US. Who knows what will happen in the end. I imagine it

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was it's out in theatres in the UK, like that will start the clock ticking till it has to

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be available, you know, via streaming or DVD if you live in the past. I mean, yeah, it's

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not nothing comes out to then just vanish. That's just not how it works anymore. So I

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guess if they don't get a distributor in time and they have confirmed it will come to the

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UK this year, then it will probably hit the US via streaming then and just miss a theatrical

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release. I can't imagine the UK releases can be that massive either. But I these are bad

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signs but to be honest, I like the director, the director did the Solomon Kane movie. I

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enjoyed that movie. It's great came in like 2009. Wow. Have they made anything more recently

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than that? Nothing that I can remember that I thought was good. Okay. Okay, cool. Cool.

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Duncan, you're really selling this one to me. Listen, set your expectations low. And

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I think you might be surprised. Duncan, that's almost word for word a line in this book.

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Yes. Right. Let's get on to that. Nice, nice, very deliberate segue. The first in a duology.

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This is not the first thing Nikki Pau Pretto has written. She's done several other works.

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I think she has an existing trilogy called like the Crown of a Feather. Maybe that's

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what the first book is called. She's also when I was doing a bit of googling wrote a

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book that I was like, that sounds amazing. It's called Oh gosh, it's like the last chance

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magic last chance school for magical delinquents. I was like, well, your title learning has

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solved me. I saw that. But yes, Bonesmith, part of the duology, the sequel school Ghost

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Smith. This is a piece of YA fantasy where we follow the story of a Bonesmith, a character

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who has a magical ability to influence bones and they live in a magical land where there

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are different clans. Bones Duncan. Yes. Bones with bone armour and bone rings and bone swords

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and bone portcullis is and bone art and decorations, bones sewn into the structure of walls, which

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are harvested special anchor bones, which will be described to us many times rather

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than the story about how the different logistics of using bones in magic. Oh no, it's the

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industrialization of bones where these Bonesmiths go out to do funeral rites and from poor people

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to collect payment, they just take certain bones. The point of the narrative is these

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people live in a world where the undead, sorry, the dead always rises ghosts, depending on

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who they were in life and the amount of their death, they may rise at different levels of

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strength of ghosts in a convenient tier system from one to five. And this is a threat to

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the whole society. And what we get in this story, we follow a Bonesmith called Wren,

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who is the sort of outcast from her noble house and sent to the border wall to live

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in shame. And the border wall separates the dominion where they have a control on the

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ghosts to the desolate desolation, badlands where a great breach has happened, which has

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sent too many ghosts and they can't control it. So they built a wall and some people have

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been trapped on the far side of the wall, the sort of wildlings, no, the Ironsmiths

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live on the far side of the wall. And when Wren is at the wall, a prince of the noble

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house come visiting, he is Kim Nat one on an excursion east of the wall, not north,

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east of the wall. And Wren teams up with an Ironsmith who was betrayed by his own kind

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to go and rescue him. That is the narrative. Yes, it is. So before we go any further at

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Duncan, we said we would tell people that both of us are recording in separate but new

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locations. So we've done test recordings and they sound okay, but it's different when

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you record a whole new podcast. So we might have some TVing problems for this episode,

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but hopefully everything will be sorted out by the next one. Yes, thank you. Do bear with

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us and do bear with me. I’m recovering from a bit of a cold, but I think I’m pretty much

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over it now. Yeah. Unfortunately, I always sound like this. So Duncan, um, the Bonesmith.

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Yeah. It takes place in the world of very familiar ideas. You know, you have these different

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classes of magicians who have different powers. In this case, all wizards are called Smiths

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and he will have a power to control a different substance. So you've mentioned Bonesmiths,

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but there's also Ironsmiths. You can control iron, Goldsmith, Silversmiths, water Smiths,

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um, Ghostsmiths, of course, the bad guys. And then like a bunch of stuff. They're like,

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they used to be a bunch of different Smiths who were very important, like tin Smiths and

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copper Smiths, but they are no longer required for an industrialized society. So they don't

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matter anymore. It was wood Smiths. Another one. I made that up. Wood Smiths. I thought

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I’d mentioned them. Yes. Wood Smiths are mentioned once as a sort of thing that's almost rumoured

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to exist, but like it has been lost so long ago that, um, they're very scarcely even remembered.

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So Geordie, what are your kind of overall thoughts before we get into sort of specifics here?

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Okay. My thoughts are, remember what you say. I will feed back to my sister. Yeah. So I

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wish you hadn't told me that this was her, her gift to you because I was correct when

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I said she has not read it, let us wrong. I should have said she has not let us wrong

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so far. Here's the deal, Duncan. Um, this is not a bad book. It's written effectively.

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I agree. It's written excitingly even maybe not as exciting as it could be. You know,

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I don't like the way that some of the fight scenes are written for example, but it's enjoyable

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enough the characters, the dynamic is, is okay. I really like Wren as your very typical

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spunky determined, uh, female main character. It's a familiar archetype, but it's a welcome

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one. I like it, but it is familiar. It's very familiar. This whole book is extremely familiar.

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I could, I could tell you everything about this book for maybe about five chapters in,

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like I made a bunch of predictions in my head and pretty much all of them turned out to

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be true. Even one I made on like page two. Okay. I want to hear more about this one.

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I mean, I can tell you like the moment a character's introduced to me, like this was my father,

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but my uncle who was a great war hero was lost long ago and I’d never been that close

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to my father. I’m like, yeah, cause he's your uncle and your, your, your dead uncle is actually

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your father moving on. Okay. Well, this is one where I actually didn't get that, but

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I mean, just, I mean, uh, spoilers for spoiler heavy review. We're not, I’m not, I don't

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feel like I can hold anything back in this one. Um, so yeah, I think this is an enjoyable

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enough book. If you like the sort of things like thrown of glass, for example. Yeah. You'll

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like this. It's better than thrown of glass, but it's just, it's the same book. It's the

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same book that you've read a hundred times. If you like reading the same book a hundred

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times, whatever, you know, Duncan, what did you think? Once again, I feel like I’m not

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necessarily in disagreement. I just have my own personal tastes that led a much more positive

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sensation with this book. I totally understand. This is YA. Yeah. This is, this is the most

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YA fantasy, YA fantasy it's, it's that I’ve ever read. It's just such the genre and such

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the tropes and such the expectations straight down the middle. This is a very well worn

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saying it's a very well worn path, but like Geordie said, it wasn't poorly executed. I do

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have some criticisms that I want to get into. Yeah. In general, even when the characters

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are doing things like there's a bit of a romance in this book and it plays out exactly how

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I was expecting it to play out like beat for beat. Yes. But I still enjoyed the characters

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interacting. I was like, Oh yeah, this is cute. I wasn't, I love story for the ages.

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I wasn't like, Oh, I really hope they end up together. But I was like, this is nice

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seeing you interact. This is pleasant. And there were scenes of like tension. There's

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a scene where they have to, you know, they're sneaking into this place. They're eavesdropping

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on these villains and Oh no, they're discovering that, you know, they're running out and one

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person goes, go on without me. I shall make a stand. And I was like, yeah, well you're

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fine mate. Don't worry because the page count is X. So I’m sure you'll get through, but

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it was still nice to see. And I also found that generally the world, well, it did overly

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use the word bone and places as Geordie referenced at the start. It's incredible. It had a nice

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vibe to it. I was reading passages to my girlfriend and I was genuinely almost

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crying with laughter about how frequently the word bone is used. And not just because

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bone is a funny word. You cannot get past the repetition. It's, it's, it's truly unbelievable.

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I definitely don't feel like it was needed to know many places, but there was like, you

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know, when we're in sort of east of the ball, so border wall, come on. There were creepy

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moments. There were moments of tension. I never felt like obviously our characters were

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in danger, but I enjoyed the, how are they going to get out of this one dynamic and in

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general, I was rooting for the characters. I wanted to see them succeed and now I think

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that's really well mapped. Yeah. I liked it well enough. It came in, it's did its job.

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It's something that I would definitely, I’m going straight to recommendations. If you

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are a fan of this genre and you want something more, yeah, this is, this is, this is another

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book in this genre that I think is quite good. You will probably enjoy it. I am going to

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hold back what I say about recommendations. I know I already did say yes, the exact same

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thing as you Duncan. If you like this stuff, you like this stuff, but I have one more thing

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to say on that note, but I’d like to leave it for the end of the episode, which is where

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we normally do recommendations. Okay. So we've given an overall impression. Let's

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manoeuvre into like precise critiques. Let's start with the bad stuff and then we'll go

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into the good stuff. How about that? That sounds good to me, Geordie. And there's

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something that I do really want to go off my chest. I found the opening to this book,

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a bit of a drag. And I mean like the first quarter, everything up and to the point that

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our main character, Wren and her Ironsmith companion, Julian, go out on their sort of

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quest together to rescue the stolen Prince, all of the setup, the trial in the woods where

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Ren is trying to take on her final like Bonesmith exam. It's a practical exam to getting

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banished to the border for two. The character's there to her finally going beyond the wall.

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Gosh, I felt like that was either thing is I don't feel like it was too long. I feel

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like, yeah, I get why you need this time to get us there. I just felt like it wasn't good

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enough. All the characters in this section mean nothing to what I think the actual meat

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that's in me in bones then. I don't know why I found that funny after what she just said.

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The actual meat of the plot, which is the actual adventure, we get a lot of setup, we

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get a lot of time spent on characters like this. There's a character called Inara who

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Ren sets up is her rival at school. They've been going back and forth their entire lives

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trying to one up each other. Wren is sort of the outcast and does what she likes, but Inara

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is always toeing the line and they have this bitter rivalry.

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You would think that Inara was going to be like the Draco Malfoy in this book. She would

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constantly be there. She would constantly be a thorn in her side, but instead she's

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there right at the start and then right at the end to book end the book.

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She's like a different character between the two. At the start I’m like, yes, you're doing

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a good job. I am hating this Inara. Oh, and at the end she shows up again and basically

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has this one heart to heart where she's like, actually Wren, I was just jealous of you because

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you're such a free spirit.

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Yes, talking like human beings talk.

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Okay. And she went, I was only really cool to you because someone else basically told

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me to and I felt threatened and I’m like,

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That was a bit predictable though, wasn't it?

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That was a bit predictable and Maesha was like, yeah, but that explains that one incident,

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but you had this whole rivalry for years. There was so much set up and you just disappear.

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It's not even like Wren even thinks about Inara on her journey or we get flashbacks to like

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their rivalry. It's heavy, heavy, heavy emphasis at the very start and then nothing.

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Yeah, I’d say that of the two weeks I spent reading this book, the first week was spent

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getting through the first 20% of earnest reading. Part of that was because I didn't have my

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cheat code on because I couldn't find an audio book for this. Even though it does exist,

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I found it like a week in. I was like, oh, it's been here the whole time. I looked for

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it but didn't find it. At first, I just assumed that they refused to release an audio book

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because they could not find an actor who would have saved the word bone so many times. I

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truly wish I could express, I wish I could press control F and find out how many times

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the word bone is used. But instead Duncan, I have actually found a good passage to demonstrate

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this if you wouldn't mind.

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Go ahead.

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I’m just going to read a paragraph from the beginning of chapter two. That was the magic

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of the Bonesmiths, the ability to sense, move and manipulate dead bones without touch. Within

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a 10 foot radius, Bonesmiths could summon a bone to their hand, guide its movements in

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midair or heft bones much heavier than the muscles alone could bear. Valkyrs like Wren

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carried bone weapons, the magic linked them extra speed and strength as well as pinpoint

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accuracy. Bonesmiths could see spiritual tethers, the fibres that connected the ghost to its

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bones that were indistinguishable to the non-Bonesmith eye.

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BONE!

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See, I thought that...

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Incredible.

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...Nikki Paul-Pretto was actually setting up like a little cheat here because she says

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that Wren is a Bonesmith but she's also a Valkyr?

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The audio book pronounced it Valkyr. It's Reapyr and Valkyr.

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Brilliant. But like, this sort of subclass of Bonesmith, I’m like, ah, is this so you

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don't have to keep saying the word Bonesmith? Once again, established at the start, not

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used through 80% of the novel.

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So we talked about, yeah, the word bone is used a lot at the start. It's embarrassing.

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It takes a really long time to get through this section and I think part of that is just

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because of the absolute deluge of exposition we get. Really, I mean, the word show don't

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tell should just be written all over this book in red marker because it's genuinely

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incredible the way in which you have all these different types of magic users and it's just

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explained to us again and again and again. This is what they do. This is what this different

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type does. The goldsmiths are in charge because of this thing that happened in history and

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let's do a little paragraph on that. Kind of unforgivable. Like, even compared to something

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like children of blood and bone, in that we have Xaeli telling us what all these different

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clans can do or rather what they used to be able to do. She has to tell us because they

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cannot show us. They can't do this stuff anymore. But in this book, these characters are all

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active. They still had their powers. So rather than saying, oh, silversmiths are our medical

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users because silver has antimicrobial properties. So they use that to heal people. Why don't

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you just add a silversmith character even for one scene, like healing people after the

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Bonesmith exam and just show it. Don't just explain it. I’m very much in agreement. It's

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something that bothered me because I could sort of looked at it and thought, well, I

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think there's you're right. There are easy ways to solve this, particularly things like

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you talked about the goldsmiths and we get sort of this paragraph of their backstory

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and that when we meet the goldsmiths, we meet the prince of the goldsmiths. Why can't you

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work it into his dialogue? You know, have someone this just me speculating here. I know

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this isn't always the best thing to do when you're critiquing a book, but like he gets

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captured at one point is talking to like Ironsmith. I’m like, how nice must be like, what

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makes you think you have like the authority to rule and then have the prince sort of give

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this history through like a rebuttal or that kind of conversation or has an accuser night.

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This is the only reason your royalty and then you can kind of build some character work

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alongside your world building. I think that would have worked a lot better, but this sort

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of prescriptive approach is found all over the novel and not just when it comes to unpacking

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information about characters and history. This is how fight scenes are written as well.

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Like there's a bit in it where Wren has to pull off his really daring, difficult

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technique, which is basically all about like letting the ghost charge you standing completely

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still and just like stabbing it and letting it's missed part around you. And if it touches

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you once you're dead. And this is written in this, it's way where like the technique

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is described to us instead of the action. Like it's explained exactly the mechanics

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of how it works and the mechanics of how it's playing out in the moment. Instead of just

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saying I did this, you know, I grit my teeth and I readied myself like I had a hundred

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times before and you know, and stealing my nerves and making it exciting instead of giving

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us data. I don't want data. I want drama. And again, a scene like that, how maybe the

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character do the action and either we as the reader can just infer, well, yeah, that's

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part of their magic. They have influence over bone or have another character who maybe doesn't

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understand the system. Like for example, our Ironsmith character, ask them later. What

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was that? Blah, blah, blah. So I think that's major component. I don't go super negative,

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but I do want to. There's another point. This is on kind of pointless characters. Again,

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I’m going to swing back around to Geordie. So I just talked a lot or previous. I talked

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a lot about in Nara and a character gets lots of buildup and then goes nowhere. There's

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a cat in this book that I swear isn't it's a name character. They exist for like three

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sentences and it befuddled me why they were even included. Cause when they were introduced,

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I was like, right, you're someone you're coming back or what's your role in this? Do you know

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how I’m talking about Geordie? You talking about Odile? No, not Odile, less than Odile. I’m

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talking about Wren's bunkmate at the border fort called like Sabina or something. I don't

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think she was supposed to be a main character Duncan. I don't know why you would get that

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impression. Not that she's meant to be a main character, but why does she even need to exist?

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She exists in the scene where the prince falls into Wren's bedroom and literally she goes,

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Oh, my bunkmate Sabina not mentioned before the scene. Um, just put her head on the pillow

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and said, you two do what you two are up to. And then they leave. And I’m like, were you

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friends? Why is she here? You're allowed to just have people who exist in one scene. No

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crime has been committed. Oh no, there is a crime. Why is she your bunkmate? Were you

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friends? Do you have a relationship? Why is this not up? Why is she not there later? No,

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Duncan. Sometimes when you're a soldier, you have a bunkmate. She's lucky she doesn't have

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18 bunkmates. Oh, she could have had more bunkmates if they had character. I’m just so confused

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by this one person. Duncan, it's fine. She's talking about like her friends and she's like,

351
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what about your bunkmate? Were you not friends? Okay, fine. Maybe not this one. No Duncan,

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they're not friends. They've been together for two weeks. What about then her Reaper?

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This was one that I want to stick it to you. Well, Sonya betrayed her. I know Sonya betrayed

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her. But you guess what? Wrens acts like she doesn't know. It never comes up again. You

355
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think that betrayal would knock her for sixes? She's over it in a week. I just think about

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her again. That is a fair criticism, but it just did not matter to me. It just didn't

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matter. That's not stuff I was focused on. I mean, Wren is a lonely character, you know?

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She has this imperious above it all air, but she is very isolated. I think that is a thematically

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consistent part. Then again, for someone who is like lonely, doesn't have any friends,

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she actually is really good at socializing and making friends. She's a party girl. That's

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a contextual part of her character. She likes to have a good time, but she doesn't have

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any close friends or companions. That is a bit noticeable. It just confuses me so much.

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They talk about her. When she's meeting with the prince, she's like, well, my father wouldn't

364
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let me drink before, but I got my alcohol somewhere else. When she's talking about Junia,

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she's like, well, obviously I’ve had a tumble with a man before. Not quite that phrasing,

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but she shows that she has a bit more experience socializing with people, but none of these

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people are sort of referenced or thought about. Like you said, she's explained to be very

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lonely and isolated in our old community, yet she speaks of experiences that we sort

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of fly in the face of that. Right. That's all the negative character relationships and

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the slow beginning. Geordie, any more- and the use of the word bone and the over explanations.

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Gosh, these are dampeners, but there is some really fun stuff in here as well. Geordie, let's

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do a positive. What did you like? I really liked Leo. I really- he was a hoot. At a certain

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point, the story is mostly told from Wren's perspective, but it does occasionally switch

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to the other two main characters, Leo and Julian. Leo's chapters are just a hoot. I

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found him really funny. I found him charming. I found him compelling. He's an extremely

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impotent character, but he finds resourcefulness and small victories where he can, where he's

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just doing little social moves where he's the one who's kidnapped. He's this prince.

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He's the damsel in distress, but he actually has a surprising amount of agency and good

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humour about the whole kidnapping. We find out- actually, this is something I didn't

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like. I thought it was really stupid that he knew he was going to be kidnapped in advance,

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but made absolutely no moves to try and prevent it. That was weird, but I do like that when

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he is kidnapped, he sort of is rolling with the punches, so there's a bit where he's

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trying to find out more information. Every time he talks, one of them is like, put your

384
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hood back on. Eventually, he's just going, yeah, yeah, yeah. He puts the hood back on

385
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and then goes straight back to asking questions. I found that funny. I found it charming.

386
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I completely and honestly agree. He was such a fun character. You're right, he's in this

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situation where he's being captured. I love the fact that he identifies things like, okay,

388
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so the commander of the guard, that's the one who's always just going to hit me and

389
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make me quiet, but that guy, that guy's looking young. He's the new recruit. Okay, he's my

390
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easy target. Let's start being friendly with him.

391
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:41,240
And this all comes to fruition because when he meets with the big bad guy, he actually

392
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:47,600
provides us with a bunch of information that he's put together and we have a bunch of separate

393
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:53,000
pieces and then he's the one to connect the dots and he says out loud to us and the bad

394
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:58,520
guy. Okay, so I’ve actually figured out what your plan is and I’ve figured out from these

395
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,160
different elements. I’ve actually demonstrated that I’m much smarter than anyone in this

396
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:08,600
book or the reader probably realized I am and that's a, that's a pretty good and cool

397
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:09,600
moment.

398
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,080
It's very nice to see something you don't see very often. I find when you often you

399
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,900
get that character who's like overly buffoonish, but meant to be like really clever deep down.

400
00:34:17,900 --> 00:34:22,440
Maybe it's betrayed like an act or it's done a little bit too much like two separate personalities

401
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:28,360
where with Leo, I think Nikki Paul Breton does a really good job of making it so it

402
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:34,760
feels completely natural. Like yes, he's bored. He plays up. He's the prince. He doesn't care,

403
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:40,520
but he has been at court. He is savvy. He knows how to make the small movements to get

404
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:46,520
what he wants and where he's going. I’m just saying these is another little bit. I like

405
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,800
that he does this play in this book. This is the kind of grand tactical piece where

406
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:57,320
he starts like spreading rumours. Every time they stop, he like, we'll just chat, you know,

407
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,320
to the woman that brings him water or whatever. And it would just be like, you know, have

408
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:06,360
you heard? I think they are assassinated the heir to the, their kingdom.

409
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:12,160
I’m putting my hand up here, Duncan. I’m asking that's not my read on it. Maybe I misread

410
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:17,800
this, but my impression was that he hadn't been doing that, but that's a lie. He tells

411
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:23,200
the bad guy. He says, I’ve been telling people all throughout my journey, what your evil

412
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:28,280
plan is when I figured it out. So it's not going to work anymore because I’ve told everyone.

413
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,820
It's not a secret. I thought that was a lie and he hadn't been doing that. Am I wrong

414
00:35:32,820 --> 00:35:35,680
about that? I think you're wrong about that. It's made

415
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:41,740
very clear when he has the first thought about spreading those rumours, a servant comes to

416
00:35:41,740 --> 00:35:47,020
where he's being held and he starts chanting this. I’m not meant to talk to. And then we

417
00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:53,880
have the light bulb moment. It's like, Whoa, hang on. What could I say that would be damaging?

418
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,280
And then puts together his scheme. So I think he actually was doing that for outside the

419
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:02,100
seaside towns he's been traveling through. Interesting. I may have fallen asleep when

420
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:06,360
that happened because I do not remember that scene at all.

421
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:15,360
Very well. So Leo thumbs up, but we've got two other key characters in this dynamic triangle.

422
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:21,000
We have Wren and Julian and they are very much the power couple at the heart of this book.

423
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,800
That's true. I’ve said the stuff I like about Wren. So I think we should focus on Julian

424
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,120
for a bit. Julian, Julian, my man, Julian, he is an iron

425
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:38,680
Smith. He is the heir to the Ironsmith throne. He is betrayed by his evil uncle. Just like

426
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:43,560
friends, evil uncles. Gosh, this author has something against that uncle. I hope it wasn't

427
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,720
too bad. Just really love Hamlet. Lecherous, treacherous,

428
00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:53,320
unkindly villain. Oh, yeah, I should fatten the region's kites with this slave's awful.

429
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,440
Yes, they're all evil and they're so pure evil as well. But yes, Julian is betrayed

430
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,840
by his own. They are.

431
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,980
Because they want power and to seize the throne. And they didn't even just try to kill Julian,

432
00:37:05,980 --> 00:37:08,200
but they killed his father too. No.

433
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:14,720
Yeah, very Hamlet actually. Sorry, where are we going? Julian's betrayed. He falls in with

434
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:21,320
Ren and they're the natural enemy. And what's kind of fun, I say kind of fun, they butt

435
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:26,320
head the star and the moment these two characters, the moment that Julian ceases to become a

436
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:32,400
faceless enemy, you're like, oh, and you're roughly the same age? Okay, cool. You're together.

437
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,720
You're the couple. No, no, no, Duncan. The moment he stepped out

438
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:41,080
onto the field of battle, I was like, okay, yeah, I see how this is going. The moment

439
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,920
he shows up and says, and it was a tall figure in a dark suit of armour. And I’m like, just

440
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,320
kiss. Shut up.

441
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,880
That was my response through like most of their journey. I was like, come on, guys,

442
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,940
come on, guys, the tensions in the air. I quite like the fact that Wren is very much,

443
00:37:56,940 --> 00:38:02,600
they both seem very aware. There's tension in the air immediately. Like, it's not like,

444
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,880
oh, we're suddenly realizing our feelings. I think it's pretty much immediate. They're

445
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,760
like, okay, I find them hot. I want to get with them. But we'll be here. Wren's just

446
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,200
horny. She is. And you know what? I appreciate that.

447
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,880
It is just horny. She hasn't had action for a bit. Now I agree. I actually like again,

448
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:24,040
I like Wren's confidence. I like how she's overconfident. And I like the part of that

449
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,840
is that she's sexually confident as well. Like she knows she's hot. She doesn't act

450
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,080
demure and shy about it. I’m glad we skip over that. And she gets to be like, I know

451
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,000
Vakis into me. Why wouldn't he be? I just want to take a moment to talk about

452
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:42,200
what Wren looks like. I really actually found it delightful when I discovered so the cover

453
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:48,160
art for this book is an image of Wren in full armour holding out her bone blade with her

454
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:53,160
like shining eyes. And this like this dark makeup around the face. And originally when

455
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,800
I looked at the cover, I was like, oh, that's the artistic impression. But I love it's a

456
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,640
thing in the world that Wren is applying this black makeup around her eyes.

457
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:06,720
It's actually like a really important like bit of character work. It like it's actually

458
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:10,800
like the way in which she chooses to depict herself. You know, it says something about

459
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:15,280
the characters and the way Julian responds to it says something about their relationship.

460
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:21,000
Like the removal of this after they like fall into a river, like the river is washing away

461
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,360
the boundaries between them. It literally washes away like the bits of armour that she's

462
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:31,320
using to defend herself. It like presents her as a less fearsome and softer visage and

463
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,080
that changes the relation between them. That's all a little bit on the nose, but you know,

464
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,080
it's effective.

465
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,040
Oh, and there's a really sweet moment later as well where they need to sneak into this

466
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:45,640
Ironsmith settlement. And Julian offers up like a handkerchief to her to help wipe her

467
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:50,320
makeup off. And again, it's just a very simple thing of showing where they've got to in

468
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:57,280
their relationship and how they feel about each other. Again, really nicely done. So

469
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,400
back to Julian.

470
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:05,680
It is effectively done. It is effectively done. But what we really, I have to harp on

471
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:11,520
is the fact that the moment he appears on the page and they're not even, they're not

472
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,880
even in smooching mode yet. They're still not even up in the fiercely grabbing each

473
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,720
other mode. We're still in trying to kill each other. You can tell where the relationship's

474
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:27,200
going. And to be completely frank, that never changes throughout the book. There's never

475
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:34,120
a moment of suspense or mystery or wondering what a character is going to do next. It's

476
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:41,280
so familiar. It's so plain as day that it did disengage me from the relationship. And

477
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:48,320
as much as, you know, there are cute moments, it never reached a great high. You know, we're

478
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:53,840
not talking about Laszlo and Sarai. We're not talking about a relationship that makes

479
00:40:53,840 --> 00:41:01,360
you go, yes, I really want you to be together. To me, even the moments where they're like,

480
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:07,760
like making out sloppy style, it's never that sensual. It's never that sexy.

481
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,560
But it won't be if you refer to it as sloppy style. At least never say that again.

482
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,600
Well, they didn't have sex. There's just kissing and there's making out sloppy style.

483
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:25,200
And then they stop saying sloppy style. I don't know why. I think it's hilarious. Yes, there

484
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:31,920
is a lot of that. I think what I felt here is I was very happy to see these two get together,

485
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:38,680
like, particularly because Wren's coming to it with such a passion. I’m like, yeah, you

486
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,600
know, just relax, let the boundaries drop, get to know each other. I think one of the

487
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,880
things that was slightly disappointing in the relationship is that I never felt like they

488
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:52,280
really got to a point where I was like, yes, you two as characters are compatible people.

489
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,880
At no point was I like, yes, Wren and Julian, you shall marry and you will have a happy

490
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:01,840
long life together. Like there was no, I was like, I don't know, you know, you're going

491
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,160
to break up in six months, maybe, or maybe you'll be together for life. Who knows? I

492
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,480
know you're going to want to be together for the next two weeks. I’ve got that down.

493
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,480
Yeah, that's, I think that's part of the fact of this book that it, because it's about this

494
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:19,680
like whirlwind sprint across the country, there and back again, it's not something where you

495
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,480
can really set up of like a deeper growing relationship. So for example, I just read

496
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:30,240
the Warlord Chronicles and then the second book, it does a surprisingly good job of telling

497
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:37,440
a love story, which is not something I expect of Bernard Cornwell, Cornwell, excuse me,

498
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:43,320
because it really takes its time. Like it is soft and slow and there's a lot of yearning

499
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,640
and like watching people from afar and being like, oh, there's plenty of time to spend

500
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:53,160
like agonizing of how do I make them want to be with me? But because they're constantly

501
00:42:53,160 --> 00:43:01,240
on this adventure together, those quiet moments of yearning are like minutes spent doing that,

502
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:07,800
not days or weeks of quiet pining. And it just doesn't really allow you to think like,

503
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:13,280
yeah, this is something you've thought about a lot. You haven't had time to actually form

504
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:18,720
a real relationship. And that's, you know, if this were a trilogy, that's what I’d expect

505
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:23,200
from the second book, but it's a duology. So I reckon even then you're probably going

506
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,560
to be sprinting into the next one and rushing to finish it. So I don't know. I don't have

507
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,920
high hopes for, um, what would the ship name be? Rulian.

508
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:33,920
Juvan?

509
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:39,680
No, that's not how it works. Duncan, come on. It's pretty clear that which of us has spent

510
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,400
a lot of time on tumblr.com.

511
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:47,440
Yes, it's very clear. I had another point to follow this up with. I liked them. They

512
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,200
were going to be together, not for a long time. They're on the sprint. There's definitely

513
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,120
a note I think because they're on the sprint and like it was the danger was so high that

514
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:59,960
I was mostly just there like, I’ll go on, just do it. You might be dead soon. So there's

515
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:03,640
that aspect. Oh, I remember why. Oh, this is a bit negative. Oh, don't know if I want

516
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,800
to say I do. I’m going to say I’ve got to say it. Little negative I did find in this

517
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:15,520
is that Julian when they first meet does this whole talk about Wren's uncle secret father

518
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:23,120
who he was the Devastator. He used his magic. He slaughtered hundreds. He's this feared

519
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:29,160
war criminal in Julian's nation's land. Obviously he's a revered hero.

520
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,400
I don't think we probably made clear that the Ironsmiths and everyone else in the Dominion

521
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:38,600
had a big war. The Ironsmiths lost are actually believed to be like extinct now. So Julian

522
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:43,800
showing up is a big deal. But when we get this set up, it's very clear that oh, Wren

523
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,900
doesn't reveal who her family is that she's related to this great war criminal. And I’m

524
00:44:48,900 --> 00:44:57,960
just sitting there still thinking, great. Now we've got to do the liar reveal moping

525
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:03,440
how could you keep this from me plot. And I’m not going to that was hanging over this

526
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,040
a lot of God when when's that going to hit? When are they going to have a misunderstanding?

527
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,620
When are they going to do something? Because they think it's in the other's best interest

528
00:45:12,620 --> 00:45:16,600
or not tell them something because they think it's there will hurt their feelings to know

529
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,360
and then they're not going to like each other. But guess what? They're definitely coming

530
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,520
back together. I mean, I haven't read the sequel maybe they don't maybe Wren is up which

531
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:30,000
now I said it out loud I think I would prefer and I genuinely give brownie points for I

532
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:35,520
disagree but carry on. Maybe they should all just realize they're not right for each other

533
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:40,280
and pursue their own paths. I’ll give brownie points for that. I thought you were going

534
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,680
to recommend a polycule now see you already now I’ve lost where I was going with this.

535
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:49,720
Well we'll get to the polycule when we read iron widow. Okay, so um, you were talking

536
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:56,680
about the lie revealed. Now Duncan the lie revealed scene does happen but it doesn't

537
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:03,120
lead to that big oh my god you betrayed me oh we have inseparable differences. Vance

538
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:08,280
that scene does happen but it's completely unrelated. Did that mitigate your feelings

539
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:14,720
about the lie revealed scene? It did quite a lot. I was weirdly almost already had heard

540
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:19,640
the book because I’m anxious for seeing happening when it didn't happen. I was like oh, I’m

541
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:26,440
sorry. Oh, oh well I wish I knew that wasn't happening. I’ve been I’ve been so under a

542
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:33,480
dark cloud for so long. That was nicely done. At least it was quick. I came at it differently.

543
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:40,680
Oh yes it was quick. I also I don't think I got as bent out of shape about this as you

544
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:49,040
did so there's that but um I really disliked the disagreement scene. I just felt like the

545
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:54,440
whole conflict was extremely manufactured and the only reason it worked I feel like

546
00:46:54,440 --> 00:47:00,920
Julian had kind of read the book ahead of time. Julian has a very good reason to not

547
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:08,360
cross over into the Dominion territory. He's like the lead he's one of the leaders of the

548
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:13,880
enemy faction. He'll be arrested and this and so and he has good reasons not to trust

549
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:19,400
them. So that's legit and he and the others can say well we'll vouch for you.

550
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,960
We'll say you're our friend and that you helped us and to which Julian should say yeah

551
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,320
but I kidnapped a prince. They're not going to forgive that. They were survivors like

552
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:36,960
my group killed your guys. I’m going to go to prison forever. I can't come with you.

553
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:43,400
Instead what the discussion is Julian says you can't trust any of those people. Um no

554
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:48,840
one in the whole Dominion can be trusted apparently. No one would act for your own best interest.

555
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:55,440
They'll all tell you lies which is on its face an absurd thing to say. It just so happens

556
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:01,600
to be completely true. So the twist here is that Julian says something that seems completely

557
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:07,680
unreasonable only to be proven right and you can never predict this unless you've read

558
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:13,520
another you know four other books. So this is the very frustrating part for me is that

559
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,000
I just want this bit to hurry up because I know what's going to happen. They're going

560
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:23,720
to ditch Julian. They're going to leave him behind and then the only thing that surprised

561
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:29,000
me at the ending is that Julian is immediately captured instead of coming in to rescue them

562
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:34,160
at the end. That was the one thing that surprised me. Everything else word for word I predicted.

563
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,520
I certainly knew that some of the characters would be betraying them. The obvious ones

564
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:44,720
were selected. You're a little bit exaggerating there. Only like the high ups in the Dominion

565
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:51,120
are like we are secretly evil. Yes that's true. Commander Duncan is honest. There are

566
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:57,240
some people who are not. And all Duncan's are. Duncan I bet you'll please that for once a

567
00:48:57,240 --> 00:49:02,680
Duncan is not being murdered in this book because there was a Duncan in the straight

568
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:08,000
races cure and he got his throat slit. Yeah and obviously King Duncan had a bad end and

569
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,920
the only other Duncan I can think of off the top of my head I think it's in Dragon Age

570
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:16,920
Origins the video game and he doesn't make it past the opening. I can name. Don't forget

571
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:27,100
Sir Dunk from the 97 kingdoms. Yes. Except I think he does die tragically in the expanded

572
00:49:27,100 --> 00:49:34,080
history of Westeros. Yes Sir Duncan until Captain the Kingsguard he dies and I believe

573
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:41,960
it's the great fire at Summerhall. Naturally thank you Duncan. But not in his book. In

574
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:49,600
the Vices book anyway. Yes Commander Duncan it's not like everyone's evil although I do

575
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:55,920
like the fact that like the leader of the big bad Wrens father Vance they make a big deal

576
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,280
out of that. You've got like the henchmen who are like at the border fort but Vance

577
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:07,960
also has like his personal guard who are blindly loyal and in on the evil or just so blindly

578
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,240
loyal they don't care. I just I find it with this like this two tier system. I just always

579
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:16,560
find it with when villains have henchmen who are like why are you following this guy? He's

580
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:22,680
not even in your interests. How did he get a group of you who are also just like yes

581
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:30,720
let's betray the heir to the throne. I’m on with that. I don't know how involved they

582
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:36,000
are. I don't think they know about like the full ghost conspiracy right? Well they know

583
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:42,120
about iron revenants. Like they just told. Like the guy's buying these things and these

584
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:49,600
like iron golems are rocking up. Surely that's a hint and like a corpse woman shows up for

585
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:56,120
negotiations. Revenge is the one. Oh no sorry you're referring to the regents guys. Yes

586
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,360
sorry I did jump characters there. Yeah I mean they but they have a good they you did

587
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,280
jump characters there in a confusing way but they have a good reason to buy iron revenants

588
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:10,000
because they want revenge against the dominion. Yeah I suppose you're right. It just seems

589
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:16,460
weird that everyone's always in on it. Yeah I mean it doesn't the kind of unconvincing

590
00:51:16,460 --> 00:51:23,780
part of a lot of this book is the mustache twirlingness of its villains. Like the regent

591
00:51:23,780 --> 00:51:31,040
the Julian's uncle whose name also starts with J. I forget what it is though. James?

592
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:39,160
Anyway he's so evil and like in a way that it's like yes yes my boy of course I betrayed

593
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:45,360
you just like I betrayed your father. I know and I love the fact that his whole justification

594
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:51,720
is like because I am the strong and only the strong will rule and I will release an army

595
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:59,680
of the dead and revenge like he can have. Your father was too weak Julian I had to take

596
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:05,200
his place and you had to be removed as well. No I love the fact that he I think he basically

597
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:11,160
says at one point he's like he was too compassionate and caring for the common people his compassion

598
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:18,400
was his weakness. Exactly just like your mother. I’m sorry I’ll stop with this silly voice

599
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:25,900
but yeah it's crazy and this happens in reverse at the end because Vance doesn't give any

600
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:34,360
crazy evil speeches so he has Odile do the whole you're mad your idea is just crazy and

601
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,760
now I will list out all of the evil things you ever done in a conversation which I don't

602
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:43,640
know the main characters overhearing so that I can expose it all of the bad stuff that

603
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:51,960
you've done you the villain and now allow me to explain the death of your maybe sexual

604
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:59,720
partner but also your brother's sexual partner who then gave birth to the main character

605
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:04,380
and I’m going to deliver this dialogue in an extremely clunky and lengthy way which

606
00:53:04,380 --> 00:53:09,480
feels extremely unnatural. I didn't like the Aniva's book if you hadn't picked that up.

607
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:14,320
That's the other point I was kind of bringing up I had issues like I like the middle I like

608
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:21,520
the middle and the climax and I think the first quarter and like the last eighth I was

609
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:28,080
a bit iffy on but that still leaves five eighths which was solid. Yes you're right that that's

610
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:33,200
that's fair the first quarter of the last the first 20 percent of the last eighth not

611
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:38,080
by great. Sorry I feel like we've gone on negatives again. Okay that was our positive

612
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:43,240
section. I’m gonna jump I’m gonna jump point okay so those are some of the downsides let's

613
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:48,200
jump over though to a bit I really liked. I really liked when our two main characters

614
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:54,520
Ren and Julian are traveling across this area known as the breach this great crater that

615
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:59,560
opened in the ground and all the dead spilled out of and they're cutting across the breach

616
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,280
because they're trying to catch up with the kidnappers and they're kind of heading them

617
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,120
off at the turn by going through the dangerous territory that no one would dare go because

618
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:12,720
there are too many dead about. Firstly I thought the undead were quite a fun I I I could use

619
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:17,880
a little bit at the literal tier system so tier one goes to tier two goes to tier three

620
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,480
I’ve never fought a tier five before. It's a hard magic system we're gonna do. But I

621
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:27,040
like the descriptions I like the fact that they can be very ethereal like a light

622
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:32,440
green mist I like the idea that they just need to touch you and get this like death

623
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,760
rot. Yeah. And I do quite enjoy some of the fights with them they weren't brilliant but

624
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:41,280
I like the fact that Wren was throwing out like a bone dust to make like a spray a bone

625
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:47,000
deters the undead that's a key the ghost the undead that's a key plot point so does moving

626
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:53,960
so does water why does Earthly Castle not have a moment. The actual thing they can't

627
00:54:53,960 --> 00:55:00,240
cross the running water I like this idea a lot is that they can't leave the ground you

628
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:06,560
know magic comes from the earth so they can't like they can't take any kind of step like

629
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,840
they couldn't go up a ladder for example if you climb up a ladder you're completely safe

630
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:16,000
you climb a rope you're safe if you cross you know not even a river a puddle if it stretches

631
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:21,520
across a space they can't go through it which I think is a really cool rules I would love

632
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:28,280
to go down negative I would love to have seen this maybe reflected a bit more in the world's

633
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,600
architecture like we have actual societies where people you know you build your houses

634
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:39,720
up high or in have tree houses or house on stilts you know could this be implemented

635
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:43,800
you could see that on the other side of the Dominion where they don't have Valkyrs and

636
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:50,040
Reapers maybe the house houses are built differently you know like you say no one lives on the

637
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:54,240
ground floor of this house they all have to live on the second floor and they removed

638
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:59,440
the stairs and replaced it with a rope or you can say all the buildings look fine at

639
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,400
the bottom but they have like shanty towns on the roofs and they've built like a second

640
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:09,520
like a second village above like above a so that the ghosts can't get them that would

641
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:16,680
be really cool and interesting but that doesn't really manifest and nor is the I gotta say

642
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,080
you know it's only just occurred to me this moment there's a very dramatic scene probably

643
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:26,960
one of the most exciting scenes in the book it's all about this chase across an iron bridge

644
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:36,080
how the fuck did the ghosts cross that bridge oh you've just got me were the ghosts there's

645
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:41,480
a special type of ghost called like a revenant where the ghost is bound in it's still about

646
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:46,000
they can't cross rivers I think they can were those the ghosts they were revenants yes but

647
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:51,480
the revenants can't cross rivers no there must be a height limit to rivers though well

648
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:56,400
I’m not talking about the river blocking them I’m saying that they you know they need

649
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:02,080
contact with the earth that's what stops them from proceeding but the bridge is not the

650
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:08,400
earth right like if they can if they can climb no but revenue what separates the bridge I

651
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:13,960
passed the rules no but what I’m saying is because they're revenants they don't care

652
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:21,880
if the rules the revenants are stopped by the river yes but if they're really motivated

653
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:27,360
they can ignore the rules I don't think that's true Duncan I think it might be maybe this

654
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,480
was a part not overly explained Duncan there's a scene where they're in the river and the

655
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:38,600
ghosts can't get them true but there's a scene where the revenant enters a town over a draw

656
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:45,960
bridge so this happens more than once revenants can just do it we're gonna deal with some

657
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:55,640
floor is lava rules so what the floor is the ground the earth is I guess it literally

658
00:57:55,640 --> 00:58:02,400
is just that like they can't lift both feet above the ground like if one foot is on the

659
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:08,680
ground that's okay so that means that they can't climb ladders because two feet would

660
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:15,120
be off the ground that's making whatever that doesn't make any sense that's weird the bridge

661
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:22,000
is ground we've decided the bridge despite the fact it's not made of soil or earth it's

662
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:27,200
ground well this is what makes me think if you built a stone keep could they walk up

663
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:32,360
a stone keep what do you mean by up because they can't climb walls we know that no they

664
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:40,520
can't climb walls but if you had a stone if you build a if you built like a tower out

665
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:47,640
of stone and stone is earth could a ghost walk up the stairs I think ghosts can walk

666
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:54,760
upstairs okay yeah but they can't but they can't like ethereally fly Duncan I don't think

667
00:58:54,760 --> 00:59:02,320
it's a question of what is earth I think it's a question of what is floor okay so they basically

668
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:08,840
still obey gravity despite being like spectral spirits ghosts still obey the rules of gravity

669
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:13,920
is what we're saying yes they can't ghosts can't fly they always walk it's also explained

670
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:19,920
one point that the ghosts move like spooky Japanese ghosts they they're all herky-jerky

671
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,400
oh my gosh yes you're right I’d actually forgotten that I think I had that in the back of my

672
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:28,720
mind it would have been creepier throughout the book because that I don't like that that

673
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:37,440
actually really puts me off you know the the ring level of not right movement yes

674
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:42,360
that could have been creepy the reason why you forgot that Duncan is that the tier system

675
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:48,760
is introduced in chapter 2 where they start fighting ghosts for the first time and tier

676
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:54,960
one is a completely passive form of ghost it's basically just like an evil mist tier

677
00:59:54,960 --> 01:00:00,920
two is like not dangerous at all it has a solid form but it's too stupid to attack

678
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:06,880
three is where I can start fighting you and you have to fight back and then four is like

679
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:13,320
a reasonably dangerous non-copo is a dangerous non-coporial ghost and in tier five is revenants

680
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:19,160
and revenants are ones that are so animated that they're still attached to their corpse

681
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:24,000
they have a corporeal form they have physical strength and yeah they're like they're zombies

682
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:29,160
you know they um they can move they can run they're far zombies but they're not supposed

683
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:36,560
to have intellect the problem is that that means that we go straight from fighting ghosts

684
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:47,480
to fighting walking corpses so Wren never fights she fights twice two times in the book these

685
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:54,080
non-coporial actual ghost ghosts like see through glowing green and the rest of the

686
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:58,760
time it's walking corpses this presents a couple of problems for the narrative one of

687
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:06,000
them is that we go we literally go straight from like zero to a hundred she has a little

688
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:10,640
practice fight in chapter two and three against non-coporial ghosts and she struggles against

689
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:16,480
them she goes across the wall and she's immediately fighting tier fives and nothing else there's

690
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,400
one of a fight against a non-coporial what she does but for the rest of it it's just

691
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:25,360
tier fives the most dangerous ones all the time yes it's quite interesting to introduce

692
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:30,360
the tier system but I don't feel like we really get a sense of it ramping up I think what

693
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:35,440
would be really cool to see is maybe like have a fight that Wren wins against like a

694
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,840
four have it be like a real struggle like she's putting out all the stops this is a

695
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:45,580
really close call and then yes when the five gets rolled out then you go oh my gosh she

696
01:01:45,580 --> 01:01:51,240
only just survived the four and now we've got the level five Duncan you're describing

697
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:56,520
bleach but yes and that's what you should do you have it be a major struggle to fight

698
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:04,080
the lieutenant and then captain Kenpachi shows up I mean there is it's a story about

699
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:08,120
fighting ghosts who of course we're going to bring up bleach I miss bleach I miss good

700
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:13,360
bleach are you following the thousand year blood walk no I probably should I’m probably

701
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:18,600
not gonna have it's that's on disney plus isn't it it is yeah I’m probably not going

702
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,480
to Wrenew disney plus this year they've cracked down on their password sharing and they've

703
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:27,800
put up their prices again and I think I’m I think I’m out I literally only ever watch

704
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:33,600
their star wars tv shows and last year I didn't even watch the um acolyte I just watched skeleton

705
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:38,600
crew which is amazing by the way please people go out watch skeleton crew really it it's

706
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,000
incredible I thought it was really good I like everyone said oh it's this goonies in

707
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,760
space I’m like yes it's goonies in space it's really well done I know there's been some

708
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:52,280
critique that in the first episode the planet they're on looks quite like earthy firstly

709
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:57,160
okay it always looks like they're filmed on earth you know endor was a forest I I’ve seen

710
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:01,160
loads of them I don't really buy into that critique but when they're actually out in

711
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:05,720
the world it's such a fun cast of characters and these are young actors doing amazing jobs

712
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:08,760
and it really kind of hurts me that we finally got something that I think is really good

713
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:14,520
our star wars and all that dominates the conversation is the fact that it had like no views kind

714
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:20,160
of I i had no idea that anyone had even watched it no one has ever discussed in front of me

715
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:24,000
i okay well that's thank you for letting me know that duncan maybe I’ll watch a bit of

716
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:29,080
skeleton crew I probably won't because star wars is for nerds but back to our ya fantasy

717
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:33,520
novel all right we talked about good stuff we talked about the fighting we talked about

718
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:38,160
the stuff and the fighting we didn't like I’ll say one more thing about this um as a

719
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:43,720
general rule to go back to bleach straight away I don't like whip swords I think they're

720
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:48,760
stupid this is the one time I thought this makes sense I think you're a character who

721
01:03:48,760 --> 01:04:17,160
could use a whip sword yeah so you believe that he wouldn't just slice his own carotid

722
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:23,120
artery and die after swinging it and he can use it for indiana jones stuff so he used

723
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:27,440
it to like he whips it out and like attaches the stuff and you're like that makes sense

724
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:33,640
because this this sword has like segmented bits and I make sense that they would like

725
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:40,240
bind together and get stuck and it makes sense that he can use that same grappling ability

726
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:45,760
in a non-lethal way because he can control the way the lip the whip lands he can make

727
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:50,080
it like even if it doesn't bind together he just like he just hardens it and they like

728
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:55,600
stays put and it grips onto Wren when she like falls off a ledge believable good like

729
01:04:55,600 --> 01:05:02,280
it done an undeniable positive and that's a great scene when they're escaping across

730
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:08,360
this bridge Wren it is falls through a plank he whips out his sword he's holding her dangling

731
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:12,720
below the dead are coming onto them they don't have much time he's trying to pull her up

732
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:17,920
they like look into each other's eyes but oh no it's starting to slip at the last second

733
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:23,560
will Wren fall it's really nice and you're doing the classic you have to let me go drop

734
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:31,400
me no I won't do it um what I really like about that what I really like about that scene

735
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:38,240
is that this separates the two characters and um what I’m waiting for is for both of

736
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:44,400
us to be stewing in their guilt separately and then like running to each other way later

737
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:49,280
what happens instead is julian shows up in the next chapter because the moment he like

738
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:55,280
got away after she fell he sprinted down the mountainside to be like I can't go get her

739
01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:00,520
and he's like are you okay I’m so sorry I feel really bad that I dropped you that's novel

740
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:05,960
that's different I’ve never seen an extremely familiar scene happen like that and what was

741
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,200
so great about this scene and I think you just tip around it there but I just want to

742
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:14,600
make it very clear when julian gets back to Wren one of his key things is he needs Wren

743
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:20,280
to know that he didn't drop her on purpose yes like that's what mattered to him it's

744
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:24,280
actually he needed her to know that she wasn't being betrayed by him and I was actually like

745
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:29,920
well this is actually a really big step for your relationship in a in a more general sense

746
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:35,920
like yeah it it's convincing to me it shows that julian cares what Wren thinks about him

747
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:42,280
and in a really good like in a really well way a way I don't often see the idea the real

748
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:46,960
concern obviously Wrent's well-being the fact that Wren could sit there thinking he betrayed

749
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:53,920
her is the worst thought in his mind amazing stuff social anxiety I get it yeah uh that

750
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,600
was a good scene and it makes sense for their relationship takes a big step forward after

751
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:02,560
that that's convincing that's pretty good while we're down there after they fell off

752
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:09,600
the bridge into the chasm no pun they discover this sort of city of Ghostsmiths and ghost

753
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:17,360
smiths titled the second book are is this long-lost smithing art where these people

754
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:22,560
shockingly control ghosts and control the undead and it's obviously incredibly powerful

755
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:26,840
given this in the world where the dead always rise uh this is actually quite a nice bit

756
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:32,720
of the plot I like this bit of world building that like the dead always rise so in the dominion

757
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:36,440
they have to send out the Bonesmiths to make sure they you know they don't when someone

758
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:40,640
dies but also on the other side of the wall where the Ironsmiths are they have all these

759
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:46,880
ways of like dealing with dead bodies like they try like throwing them into the sea and

760
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:52,680
like burning them to like try and make the ghost not come back I like that I like that

761
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:58,040
element I always think there's a little conversation about like do other creatures get ghosts and

762
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:07,400
i think there's a bit but only warm-blooded creatures yes how interestingly specific how

763
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:15,320
did this get more to you duncan as a vegetarian I mean vegan oh that's right you've upgraded

764
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:23,880
i forgot thank you thank you very much I obviously all creatures are equal if I say evil then

765
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:33,000
that's a bit weird all creatures bear original sin as we know so they should all be baptized

766
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:43,240
duncan I only eat non-baptized creatures so um it means I eat buddhists all the time that's

767
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:50,920
the stupidest joke I’ve made in this podcast yeah well well done finally just distracted

768
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:56,480
me from what you said earlier what was it messy squishy what did they do making out

769
01:08:56,480 --> 01:09:04,400
sloppy style yes making out sloppy style yes it's only one buddha creatures but they make

770
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:09,600
a point where if you like butcher animals properly or in the right time I just would

771
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:14,320
like to know a bit more about how this works because I’m like so if someone's like like

772
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:19,080
no one dies alone in this world like if someone's on their deathbed or like there's an elderly

773
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:24,680
relative in the community people must just watch them like a hawk like okay okay okay

774
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:29,040
okay they're dead quickly get the people in get the Bonesmiths in yeah I mean the silver

775
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,640
smith must just have them on speed dad be like okay go get them go get them I tried

776
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,840
oh my god can you imagine that if you're in like the hospital ward and you know you've

777
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,400
been treated by the Silversmith and then he just stands up and the Bonesmith comes

778
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:49,280
over he's just like oh I’m not gonna make it am I the person's like no oh that's sad

779
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:53,680
yeah hospice carers this you just take you to the Bonesmith house you're like oh it's

780
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:59,600
so gaudy it's covered in bones it's everywhere um what was I about to say yeah you don't

781
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:04,520
get a lot of taste of actually living in this world because it's all again describes to

782
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:11,120
us distantly and then she leaves the world behind she goes into this other space and

783
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:16,960
she doesn't even spend time in like the Ironsmith villages obviously most of them are

784
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:24,760
dead but like the beyond the dominion villages she goes to one um but the rest of the time

785
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:30,000
she's just in the wilderness and in like Ghostsmith places so you don't actually get a sense

786
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:36,440
of like community a sense of of society you know they're fighting for these big for peace

787
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:41,520
between like disparate lands and these aren't these aren't real places they're empty we

788
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:48,480
do go to this Ghostsmith fallen city this necropolis and in here we get this kind of

789
01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:54,120
major I’d say plot element hooked maybe from the next novel you could describe it as this

790
01:10:54,120 --> 01:11:02,360
is like well of magic we discover and in this scene is when we find out that all first hinted

791
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:07,240
at we basically find out it's blooming obvious at this point it's just a frog horn going

792
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:14,880
brother twin brother to be fair when he was first introduced I’m like little brother but

793
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:22,680
then the big twist is twin brother extra spooky what do we find down there dungan we find

794
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:28,760
there is a well of magic a literal well of it this is like a whitey misty stuff and there

795
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:32,640
is Wren's twin brother but we don't know that yet but we know that because they have the

796
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:37,960
same ring they were separated from birth they each got a magic ring anyway and he's making

797
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:44,120
the revenants for their mother who is the corpse queen and they're all evil but he has

798
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:48,600
a moment with Wren because Wren discovers she can control the undead and magic comes on the

799
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:53,560
land and they must dig to get at the magic because magic is in the ground already the

800
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:58,760
deeper you delve the greater magic you find do you think his name is going to be hawk

801
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:03,320
because he pointed a ring and it's like bird of prey I mean he pointed a songbird and he

802
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:12,800
goes that's you Wren I mean I do think that's gonna be the case the only bet there is what

803
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:21,240
so what what bird is it gonna be falcon I hope he's called california condor and now

804
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:29,720
so do I so we get this discovery and and this is what's set up for the next book this book

805
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:33,720
actually basically ends on the character of Wren setting out to destroy the source of magic

806
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:39,880
are you excited for that Geordie no one no no I’m not I’m not gonna read next book are we

807
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:45,000
moving is this the interview episode is it snuck up on me completely I mean duncan no

808
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:48,600
there is something I did like here a bit of world building fine I know it's dropped an

809
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:53,720
exhibition exposition but I do actually like this little element it is established that

810
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:56,920
this so this source of magic comes from the ground and we find this literally the well

811
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:01,800
of magic one thing that we also do touch on is the fact that only this island has magic

812
01:13:02,440 --> 01:13:05,880
like this is the larger world going on oh yeah that's right they don't all have magic

813
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:11,480
like literally by being on this island you've become more magical and it's even unfair that

814
01:13:11,480 --> 01:13:17,320
the people who lived near the source of the material become the smiths so like all the

815
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:23,160
Bonesmiths are descended from like gravediggers yeah some sort of weird magical osmosis they were

816
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:28,120
born from gravedigger um I mean this is this is stupid because there's the distinction

817
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:33,480
bone and ghost is always pretty nebulous in this so the goldsmiths they were they were

818
01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:38,280
they were born next to a gold mine the silversmiths were born next to a silver mine you can guess the

819
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:47,800
rest Bonesmiths were gravediggers but the first Ghostsmith owned a cemetery yes why why are these

820
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:53,800
different is it literally just proximity to being in the dirt and not being in a dirt has that one

821
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,720
made the big difference I’m not even sure what difference I would have liked to have seen

822
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:05,560
it seems a bit odd I have nothing else to say I’ve seen they lived I want to know why are gold

823
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:13,080
smiths actually the ones in charge because surely the ability to find large amounts of gold would

824
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:19,880
actually devalue gold I guess they can just control gold and therefore like not control gold like

825
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:27,880
control gold like like metal bend it I mean like hide it and decide what the value I can only assume

826
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:36,760
that they firstly uh control supply so they they force a level of rarity and also I’d love to know

827
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:42,600
whether the goldsmiths the miners who seize means of production who are actually near the gold or

828
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:47,240
were they just the mine owner don't know what do you think about Silversmiths having anti-microbial

829
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:56,120
powers so their role is being of a healer listen Geordie I’m not going to pretend that I know in

830
01:14:56,120 --> 01:15:05,000
depth how um how medicine works but I do think there is a level of bollocks to that because if

831
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:10,440
I’m aware if their powers are like any of the other people all they can do is to put in avatar

832
01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:18,280
terms as you just said is bend the material and I’m like well if I’ve got a wound filling it with

833
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:26,520
silver isn't going to yeah do anything to it yeah yeah so silver is quite good for working on like

834
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:35,640
surface wounds so you can for example if you have a cut you can put um colloidal silver on it and i

835
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:42,440
think it is good for um preventing infection but you're right you can't close a wound so you'd be

836
01:15:42,440 --> 01:15:49,800
really good at preventing infection but do they know what germs are they have the word anti-microbial

837
01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:58,440
germ theory is real so they know what microbes are they have germ theory but but how like because

838
01:15:58,440 --> 01:16:03,800
they wouldn't need to research this if they had a magical means this is nitpicking this is not a

839
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:09,240
real complaint this is just something that's fun to think about they don't need to do medical research

840
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:16,840
to find out what germs are because they can just cure it using magic so there's no reason to find

841
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:23,240
out what microbes are so they probably don't know what germs are so why so sometimes they'd be like

842
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:28,760
i kept on pumping so much silver into this guy but he's still dying because they don't know what a

843
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:34,520
fungal infection is or they don't know what cancer is because you can't cure cancer with silver

844
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:43,560
people have tried they're dead and they're blue okay um that took a turn yes this seems a little

845
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:49,400
bit ridiculous although people trying to say you colloidal silver are monsters don't listen to them

846
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:54,760
all I’m going to add to this at this point is that I watched avatar the last day of ender I watched

847
01:16:54,760 --> 01:17:01,560
legend of korra I loved them both very dearly and in that universe the next series has been

848
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:07,880
announced I know I’m so excited I cannot wait this is actually I can't even know when korra

849
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:12,760
finished it feels like obviously corvett it's like it came afterwards it feels more modern but at

850
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:20,040
the same time so long ago I think 2015 maybe 2014 yeah that probably does line up that's a long time

851
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:27,160
ago the point I’m getting at is that in that universe water benders can hill with just holding

852
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:35,000
water over wounds so if I let that slide I’ll let the Silversmith slide also we don't actually see

853
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:40,680
any of them they're only referenced off page no yeah duncan I’m ready to end this episode

854
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:47,960
i am too and I’ve got a bit of a funny statement to make my ending on I think I’ll can you go first

855
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,160
because I think I’ll be more positive I think you will be more positive

856
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:57,960
okay I mentioned at the start of this episode that I re-listened to our episode on sisters of

857
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:03,960
sword and shadow and I’m glad I did for a lot of reasons I really feel like that was a good

858
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:10,520
coincidence of destiny in fact there were a couple of weird coincidences which lined up with my

859
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:15,800
reading of this book one of them was the fact I listened to that episode again and in it we talk

860
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:22,600
about how you know that book as a sort of introduction to feminist literature it sort

861
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:28,120
of serves a function it works well because if you've never read a book like that before and

862
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:35,800
it's introducing you to new ideas around feminism that's a really useful book if you have experienced

863
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:41,640
those ideas before it doesn't actually serve you a lot of value and it's not really worth your time

864
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:49,240
in this book you got something similar because this is a really familiar story you have seen

865
01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:57,000
this story before and if you haven't you might well enjoy this book and if you have seen this

866
01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:02,600
a hundred times before if you've read it and enjoyed it a hundred times you'll enjoy reading

867
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:10,920
it again but I experienced something else this week I listened to a tim mension song that I’ve

868
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:16,920
never heard before it came out last year it was made to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the

869
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:25,400
sydney opera house it's called play it safe it's this song that tells you as an audience

870
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:35,080
don't try and have cool original ideas just give people what they want it says don't try and come

871
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:41,160
up with these bold new ideas just do what everyone else does because then no one will point and stare

872
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:45,400
and obviously by telling you to do all this stuff by barking these instructions in you

873
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:54,360
it's criticizing you it's telling you be bold have great new ideas get it do something exciting

874
01:19:54,360 --> 01:20:03,000
and dangerous and weird and be brave about doing it so I was kind of primed after hearing that

875
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:09,080
song and listening to it over and over because it's an earworm that this book to me it's kind

876
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:17,240
of reprehensible I strongly disagree I’m sure you do duncan I’m sure you do because this book is

877
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:23,800
fine you know it's fine and if you've read it a hundred times before you'll enjoy it again

878
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:31,880
but if you have read it a hundred times before don't read this book just don't just just read

879
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:38,280
something else you know if you're thinking about picking up Bonesmith just try something different

880
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:45,080
just be a little bold be a little weird try something strange that's what I gotta say

881
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:53,000
there's nothing wrong with doing things by the book if you do it well one of my favorite video

882
01:20:53,000 --> 01:21:01,720
games is dragon quest 8 ps2 classic dragon quest wrote the book on jrpgs he does very little new

883
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:11,000
but it does it very very well another great story let's talk about one of my top authors

884
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:19,240
robbie howard he wrote 21 ko-lan stories he was plagiarizing himself by the end but he was doing

885
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:26,280
it well and they're still enjoyable Bonesmith does very little new nothing that you would have

886
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:35,080
seen before they were predicted but it does it well enough I mentioned at the start how when we

887
01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:44,440
did green rider I called it oh it's a 10 out 10 7 out 10 this is a 6 out 10 7 out 10 7 out 10

888
01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:51,160
so short handful ya fantasy yeah it does what really matters well and I don't think that's been

889
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:59,640
emphasized enough I think if you are a fan of this fiction go for it you know you like it it's fine to

890
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:08,920
have comfort food once in a while and it isn't bad it's not insulting the ideas aren't dangerous

891
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:15,400
they're not rude in fact some of the aesthetic is not dangerous you're quite enjoyable because

892
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:21,400
there is a bit of a unique flavor it looks different it's black vanilla ice cream you know

893
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:25,080
how vanilla ice cream with the charcoal in it tastes like vanilla ice cream but it looks

894
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:32,440
different that's Bonesmith yeah it's the same but it's got a you know a bit of its own aesthetic

895
01:22:32,440 --> 01:22:37,800
going on I think you'll remember it not in great detail but if you saw on the shelf you go I read

896
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:43,400
that and you'll probably be able to recount the plot maybe because it's like all the other ones

897
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:49,560
you've read but it's still enjoyable I will be honest I’m probably not going to read the next in

898
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:54,920
the series maybe if it's cheap on kindle and I think that's a bit of a shame because this

899
01:22:54,920 --> 01:23:01,720
because you've already read it no because this book does have you know it's just the first part of

900
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:08,280
the story it very much feels like part one but unlike so maybe like I don't know children of

901
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:15,080
lomba all where is it going to go I know where it's going to go if it surprises me well done to it

902
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:23,400
but it gets the job done and there's nothing wrong with that I enjoyed my time with it it

903
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:30,920
wasn't a drag in fact it went quite quickly for me I knocked out that first quarter in two days

904
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:35,640
and the rest of the series I read at a nice even pace do you know what it's nice to have a book

905
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:40,280
that you're not thinking too much you can just relax into what's happening

906
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:48,680
i enjoyed my time with Bonesmith and I think listening to this episode you will know you know

907
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:54,200
if you want to enjoy your time too if you have any inkling you're probably right and likewise

908
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:57,880
if you have to if you're just seeing they're like well I’m not sure the answer's no like if

909
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:03,000
you want to break into ya this is not the place to start although at the same time by making it the

910
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:09,560
place to start is actually to be the best yeah no this is a fine introduction as well yeah I mean

911
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:14,760
it's better than a lot of the other stuff like I’d recommend this over throne of glass and like the

912
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:19,560
subsequent children of blood and bone books I wouldn't recommend it over children of blood and

913
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:25,160
bone I’d recommend you to read that first book and then just like rip out the last page and to be

914
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:30,680
like happy ending hooray I’m certainly not put off by this offer I would read more from them

915
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:39,400
i don't know it's better than malice I yeah is it better than malice I’m not so sure about that

916
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:45,000
it's better written well what more are you asking of a book geordie I don't know how to compare

917
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:49,800
well here's well here's something I forgot to say earlier duncan is that um this book is more

918
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:55,240
competently written than sisters of sword and shadow but you should read sisters sword and shadow

919
01:24:55,240 --> 01:25:00,600
before you know how to disagree that book is something to say no it doesn't no no that book

920
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:06,280
has something to say that book has a reason to exist this book you know no no no no no no no no

921
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:13,640
no no stop right that's insulting right geordie sometimes people consume media like if you want

922
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:18,280
to read something because it has something to say you would be go and read an actual textbook or

923
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:22,760
work with a philosophy we're consuming a lot of fantasy media because it's enjoyable this book

924
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:29,880
is enjoyable why what it is enjoyable yes it's but it's an opiate you know there are and you can

925
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:37,000
find it a hundred times over go to your bookshop go to the ya yes the ya section look at the fancy

926
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:42,040
section there pick anything off the shelf you'll get the same experience actually if you've read

927
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:48,200
all of them before don't go on and read this one too hard already had that experience agree

928
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:56,360
you enjoy it at a certain point I enjoy the hobbit I’m not gonna tell no better example

929
01:25:56,360 --> 01:26:02,600
you enjoy lord of the rings oh well no point reading will of time or the the rift war sarka

930
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:09,640
then it's the genre that's not comparable those aren't comparable to lord of rings this book

931
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:14,280
you're right maybe it doesn't do enough to stand out from the crowd it's just as good as the crowd

932
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:20,360
in fact it's confidently written of all those books in the ys section I if we are standing

933
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:23,960
there with a friend and he's like I want to read one of the books in the ya section I look at it

934
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:29,960
and go well listen they're all quite similar and they're going to be on a spectrum of bad to good

935
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:34,200
but you know what I know that Bonesmith is definitely closer to the good end of the spectrum

936
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:38,040
that'd be a safe bet for your mate and they go oh thank you I was like you know I’ll push

937
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:44,680
through the first quarter and it gets better after that if enough they go if you are someone if you

938
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:50,760
are someone who used to read a lot when we said this recently for dalagat dream department store

939
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:56,200
not an amazing book but easy to get into if you're someone who used to read a lot you're looking for

940
01:26:56,200 --> 01:27:01,960
something that's enjoyable that's easy to get into I’d recommend this one I recommend this one quite

941
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:09,240
hard I think you will enjoy yourself if you exclusively read sarah j mass jennifer almond

942
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:15,880
trout stuff like that here's another book your love don't read this book it won't change anything

943
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:21,320
about your life you've already experienced that and you can experience it in so many other ways

944
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:27,800
and maybe it's unfair that I’ve chosen this one to say that about because I could bring it up about

945
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:33,320
fourth wing I could bring it up about throne of glass I could bring it up about I’ve forgotten

946
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:38,200
i actually I don't know enough about iron widow to forever I don't know so but surely Geordie we

947
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:43,320
could go back you know what you should do instead of reading this book go for a hike go do a painting

948
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:49,080
class you enjoy reading read something you enjoy this is like going back and being like oh you've

949
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:57,160
you you read harry potter well don't bother reading any other person goes to special school novel

950
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:03,640
you've already read one what's it's a genre it's fine to enjoy it even if this one is a bit

951
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:10,360
paint by numbers I’m not saying I’m not ruling out this book completely duncan what do you think

952
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:16,600
the author was trying to say with this book hey guys I wrote another ya fantasy novel would you

953
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:23,880
like to read it yes exactly like it it's you know what this is it's content you said that

954
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:31,400
weirdly scathingly it's not art I pay netflix content every month for content yeah but there's

955
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:38,680
good stuff not that I’m watching if you like if well don't pay for netflix duncan what can I say

956
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:44,520
you know you only have so much time in your life you have so much time you can commit to sitting

957
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:51,720
down to read why read Bonesmith because I like it if you've written and people out there will like

958
01:28:51,720 --> 01:29:01,960
it too okay yes you could go on expedition to mount hevrest but if you enjoy classic ya

959
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:07,720
fancy literature you are not going to regret your time with Bonesmith any more than you probably

960
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:15,080
regret your entire life read strange the dreamer oh yeah read something that's a little bit outside

961
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:21,960
your bubble just step out step outside for familiar and then when you don't like it know that you can

962
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:29,080
come back and read Bonesmith if you want duncan sure if you want to retreat and go back into

963
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:35,080
plato's cave you can do that but take a look outside my girlfriend has a t-shirt you know what

964
01:29:35,080 --> 01:29:40,760
the thing of is about why why are you shows the word content content keeps you content and why

965
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:45,720
would you want to be anything except content exactly I just want to say my girlfriend actually

966
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:51,720
has a t-shirt that literally just has the words plato please let me back in the cave top person

967
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:59,640
well I’m not explaining plato's cave so I’m gonna wrap up now you know my thoughts I think we all

968
01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:04,840
know geordie's that's my philosophy geordie I’m gonna go listen to tim mitchell again well before

969
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:09,560
you do that why don't you tell us what we're reading next week oh he wants to step outside

970
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:17,000
his comfort zone so I was before I read this book I had a plan for what I was going to read

971
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:23,480
and I even told duncan because I said like we have to do it at some point so let's just do it now and

972
01:30:23,480 --> 01:30:28,280
that was going to be fourth wing uh but I just can't bring myself not after his reading I wouldn't

973
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:35,080
be fair to well no I mean that's part of it but also I it wouldn't be fair to rebecca yaros i

974
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:40,120
wouldn't be going into it in a fair state of mind because I would just be thinking that there's more

975
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:45,880
you know slop for the masses so I’m gonna do one which I think is going to be a good book

976
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:51,880
um I’ve checked there's either my my girlfriend doesn't think this is fantasy but

977
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:59,400
most people seem to agree that it is um and I’ve chosen watership down um okay I’m just going to

978
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:03,640
let you in now that I haven't read the book I have seen the film and I would agree with

979
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:10,200
your girlfriend but let's see what the book has to offer I mean it's about it's it's I think it is a

980
01:31:10,200 --> 01:31:16,040
fantasy it's an it's in the style of an epic that's definitely in its favor it's like bear war for

981
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:23,240
rabbits that is a great description and I hope that holds true I love having the argument what

982
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:31,880
is fantasy so far I’ve I’ve selected 100 of the books that we have after reviewing them said

983
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:37,640
okay that probably wasn't actually fantasy and I’m willing to take that risk again it's even better

984
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:43,080
we do sight uh which is a book I read when I was a kid and I liked a lot that's also exclusively

985
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:47,720
about animals but at least one of the animals is definitively a psychic who can see the future

986
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:53,320
past and present to be fair if the animals talk talking animals aren't real they're fantastical

987
01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:59,320
so it must be fantasy there we go that's what I’m saying I think the style of it is more significant

988
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:04,120
here the way the rabbits have mythology right but I’m looking forward to this I’ve never read it

989
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:10,600
before people say it's great I’m interested I look forward to finding out with you so if you have

990
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:16,280
listened to our rambling rants going back and forth and want to pitch in please please do so

991
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:22,440
the best place as always is on our instagram this is a fantasy podcast love to hear your comments

992
01:32:22,440 --> 01:32:26,840
it really makes my day you can also email us at it's a fantasy podcast at gmail.com

993
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:33,000
let us know do you like Bonesmith do you like ya do you think this is a good example of ya

994
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:37,960
i would love to hear your thoughts I would really love to hear people go right I do love ya but these

995
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:42,920
are the ya books that I kind of recommend over Bonesmith if you fall down that line or if you

996
01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:47,240
think Bonesmith is a great time give me your arguments I can throw it in Geordie's face

997
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:55,880
duncan um if someone said to you I’m a really big movie fan and you said okay tell me about the

998
01:32:55,880 --> 01:33:01,560
movies you like and they exclusively mentioned movies that were either diehard or inspired by

999
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:07,800
diehard like olympus has fallen london has fallen I can't think of any more but there's a lot of

1000
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:12,040
them you know I mean speed speed two I’m really sorry Geordie would you say they're actually a fan

1001
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:16,600
of cinema or would you encourage them to watch other types of action movies yeah I would tell

1002
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:21,240
them to step outside their comfort zone but like if they do step outside their comfort zone and

1003
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:28,200
watch some big emotionally driven beautiful piece of cinema for some reason the example in my head

1004
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:35,880
at the moment is the shore shank redemption where's like obviously you know do go for it but there's no

1005
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:43,640
problem with watching something okay wow oh gosh I have a new perspective but guess what

1006
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:49,560
sometimes you're tired you've had a long day and you just want to cuddle up and have something

1007
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:58,520
that's comforting and Bonesmith is comforting and the thing is it is well written it's not amazingly

1008
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:06,520
written but it's well written it's delivering what you want to a standard of quality that i

1009
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:14,520
find very acceptable but duncan there are people out there who only read this type of book I’m not

1010
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:20,600
exaggerating I’m not creating a straw man that's just the way it is you know this is served up this

1011
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:27,960
has been published because it fits into market trends it's palatable it's safe people read stuff

1012
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:32,360
like this because it's safe in the same way that there are people out there with the only movies

1013
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:37,640
they go and see are marvel films and by the same way there's nothing wrong with enjoying a marvel

1014
01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:44,440
movie but you gotta learn you gotta step out you gotta experience like the wonderful the wonderful

1015
01:34:44,440 --> 01:34:52,280
opportunities around there and in the same way Geordie that if someone came to me and said and i

1016
01:34:52,280 --> 01:35:01,400
was like oh oh do you read a lot and he goes oh I read so much I have read every book ever published

1017
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:10,280
by bernard cornwell I’ll go oh wow okay um do you want to try something different

1018
01:35:10,280 --> 01:35:16,680
and they go oh what like I would make the recommendation but that person doesn't impact

1019
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:22,520
how much I would recommend sharps eagle in fact someone came to me read I’ve read every sharps

1020
01:35:22,520 --> 01:35:29,400
book apart from I’ve never read sharps fortress I’ll go well did you like all the sharps books

1021
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:33,960
obviously different yeah I’ll go well then you'll probably like sharps fortress you might want to

1022
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:38,280
read something else as well but that's not going to change my recommendation of sharps fortress to

1023
01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:43,480
the guy who's just told me he likes reading all the blimsharks books I mean obviously that's not

1024
01:35:43,480 --> 01:35:47,480
the same I think you know that basically the same you're talking about completion you're talking

1025
01:35:47,480 --> 01:35:54,280
about finishing a series I’m talking about okay their whole sub genre of books which are just

1026
01:35:54,280 --> 01:35:58,440
the same someone who's read all the sharps books and goes I’m thinking of reading the saxton stories

1027
01:35:58,440 --> 01:36:05,400
what if duncan you're talking about no but you're not you're you're moving to goal posts what if

1028
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:13,560
like 200 different authors were all writing about you know we're all writing different versions of

1029
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:19,480
sharp or different aspects of napoleonic war and someone only read napoleonic war novels well

1030
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:27,640
then I would recommend to them the sharps books because I’ll probably like them okay okay I’m

1031
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:33,240
let's we've we've made we've made our positions clear let's wrap it up I mean I’ve asked people

1032
01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:37,960
to hit us on the socials and you give them the new book this is actually a goodbye time so thank

1033
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:44,600
you everyone for listening to our extended rant on Bonesmith it's been a pleasure as always and

1034
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:50,280
we can't wait to join you next time for watershed down if it's a fantasy or not a fantasy actually

1035
01:36:50,280 --> 01:36:56,680
do let us know I want people away on this argument early till next time till next time I’ve been

1036
01:36:56,680 --> 01:37:04,040
Geordie Bailey I’ve been duncan Nichol so long bye