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Hello and welcome to another episode of Is This Just Fantasy the podcast where every

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other week two nerds get together to rate, read and review a fantasy novel.

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I'm your host, Geordie Bailey.

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And I'm his ex-Soldier turned mob-boss friend, Duncan Nicholl.

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Duncan, it's good to be back in the world of just sort of grungy urban fantasy.

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It is very nice, particularly for me.

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This is a slice of the fantasy pie that I have a certain extra liking to.

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I think, I don't know what it is, something about it means that maybe something that would

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normally go down as like a five.

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If it's in this sort of ballpark, it's kicked up to a seven for me.

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Right, because this week we're doing The Straight Razor Cure by Daniel Polanski, also called

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Lowtown, the first book in the Lowtown trilogy.

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That's right.

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And just a little bit of background, I have previously read the entire trilogy.

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I am a veteran of this.

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I really like Daniel Polanski as an author.

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He has a geology, a similar kind of grungy dark fantasy geology out.

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He's also written a couple of apparently very interesting short stories.

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He's even written the only other short story or section of a story written in the second

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person that I think is halfway sort of decent.

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The first one obviously being of the fifth season, which is the best used to be I've

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ever had.

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Yes, that's definitely the when I turn to a book and I look to the second person, that's

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the one I look to.

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The only other example of a really successful second person narrative is a story about you,

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which is just a given episode of Welcome to Night Vale that I just think is really good.

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Jordy, before we dive into The Straight Razor Cure, have you read anything else in the intervening

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time?

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I've been very busy still.

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I was so busy and so tired that I actually uploaded our episode of Witcher with five

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minutes of dead air at the start.

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So I am barely keeping it together.

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Don't worry mate, it happens to the very best of us.

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I hope that correction is down and please everyone, thank you for joining us at the

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start of 2025.

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Oh, here in the ground running.

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No, I've also been very busy as well.

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I have only read Straight Razor Cure and to be pretty honest, it was a read that I started

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off with, I'll just flick through the top of it and then I suddenly realised, oh no,

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wait, no, no, no, I need to stop and reread in detail.

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Right, because it is a mystery novel, the detail matters.

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It does.

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So let's kind of get the vague premise out.

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The Straight Razor Cure is a murder mystery.

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I would almost say it has elements of noir kicking about, not that I truly know what

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that term means.

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Absolutely, it's very much a noir and it's more so just a noir as opposed to it being

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a murder mystery because you have noir stories like say Double Indemnity which are definitively

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noir but not about a murder mystery like the main character is the one who does the murder.

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So, and the reason I make the distinction is that this isn't like a Poirot story,

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you know, it's not solely about, oh, something has happened and the detective needs to figure

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out what that is.

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No, I think a very even amount of time is spent in this novel with our main character

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Warden who fulfils the role of the detective but he spends just as much time I feel like

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negotiating sort of the underworld and political mechanisms and a lot of time is just kind

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of given over to sort of the flashing out of the world that Warden inhabits.

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Yes, I agree.

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That's definitely the case and I think it is something that does work about the story.

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I do have a real sense of Lowtown as a living breathing space.

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I have a good sense of the different issues that people have, you know, I get a sense

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of where the different sources of friction within the narrative, like it's very explicit

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in a way that like there's a lot of racial division in the city that comes down and you

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have like, you know, the city's divided up into like various ghettos.

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And it kind of lends into my original point of having to like, oh no, I need to sit down

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and revisit in detail because although I could basically recount to you the core sort of

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murder mystery, you know, I know, yeah, that person gets killed there and that's how he

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finds that out and then, you know, I remember who done it.

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There are so many, I don't want to say vignettes, like they're sort of pointless, but they are

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this sort of these little world building episodes that are really enjoyable and when you first

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read it through and you're like, oh, how do these fit in?

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I think maybe you have a bit more of that, but maybe they don't necessarily go anywhere.

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There's quite a lot of carrots in this book that I feel kind of come and go as Warden

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sort of interacts with them just to sort of expand that bit of Lowtown's world.

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Yeah, I definitely agree with you there.

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It's something that like it could be a serious detriment to the book.

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Like if I was in a very negative frame of mind, I could say a lot of the story is spent

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wasted on stuff that isn't about the main mystery.

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But the fact of the matter is that for the most part of that slight, you know, looking

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to the side, that sort of thing, it tends to work out more or less.

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Does it slow the story down?

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Yes, absolutely.

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It does.

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I'd say it has a knock on effect that does diminish the quality of the book, but the

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stuff there, you know, it is of a certain quality that I can't dismiss it.

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It does get into like, you can tell that Daniel Polanski is trying with every bone in his

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body not to be racist about Chinese people, but he flirts with it in a way that like,

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I just don't think he was really capable of writing, you know?

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Yes, I do know.

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I think this comes down to an author who I'm inclined to say has no real ill intent, but

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wants to write a world that is racist and has racist characters.

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And it definitely gets muddied at times where what is Warden's perspective and what is the

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author laying out?

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Exactly.

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And like I said, I think it does speak more to maybe just a slight lack of finesse rather

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than an intent.

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I definitely am on the same page as you Duncan, because a lot of the stuff you're seeing is

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just like, yeah, this is Warden, and I can tell from his perspective that like, we're

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not supposed to agree with this.

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We can see this is coming from a place of ignorance, but you know, in the character

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of I think it's he's called Li Shan, you know, in him, we see this caricature, a so explicitly

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old fashioned racist caricature of a Chinese person, even down to having like a Fu Manchu

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that it's just it really defies belief that you're seeing it on the page.

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Like why?

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Like genuinely why?

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You know, we're 20 years separated from Deadwood, which was a series that where every single

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character was racist towards Chinese people.

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But the story itself really isn't that racist towards them.

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I'm not really sure what was to add on to this point is sort of saying I do think it's

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a point that I think Dan Palance does improve in subsequent stories, although I'm not going

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to there's a bit in the third one where I'm just gonna put that out.

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We get sort of this redneck hillbilly archetype.

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And it gave me a very similar reaction.

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I went, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, where are we going?

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Yeah, that is a slightly less important thing.

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I just I'm surprised I even brought it up this early in the episode, because really

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what we should be doing is we should be giving an initial reaction to how did we find the

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novel?

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Yes, absolutely.

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That is not far more important, but how we should show this our way.

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So Jordi, I brought this novel to you because I would stand by and say I like this book.

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Sure.

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I enjoyed it.

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I enjoyed the whole trilogy.

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I will not stand here and say it is one of the absolute greatest.

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This is not Kings of the Wild, but it gave me enough of a like a unique flavor that it's

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really stuck with me.

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And I enjoy it for that.

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And you were nervous about bringing it to the table, as you said in our previous episode,

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because I had such a negative reaction to the gutters prayer.

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Why is that?

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Why are those stories being mentioned in the same breath?

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So I think if you try to describe them in terms of genre, there's a lot of crossover.

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They are both urban fantasies, dealing with sort of criminal underworlds and moving mechanisms

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of the characters with a degree of underlying mystery.

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Unlike the gutters prayer, which I'm just going to say not as well written.

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Sorry, actually, like the gutters prayer, which I was going to say not as well written,

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it does put a lot of time and energy into the world building.

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What I think the straight ways of Cure does really well, or a lot better than the gutters

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prayer, is straight ways of Cure has a much more focused narrative.

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And I think its core cast of characters are just a hell of a lot more deep and interesting.

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That's my take.

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Jordy, do you do you agree with my assessment?

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I definitely agree that this book is better than the gutters prayer.

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Nice.

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I don't think it's a good book.

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Oh, I call it a five out of 10.

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I'm not going to say it's a bad book, but it's not good.

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I refer back to my opening comments on it's just that flavor that takes a five out of

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10 up to a seven out of 10.

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Yeah, I was thinking when you said that, I'd be like, oh, well, watch out for that, pal.

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Yeah, you know, like the balance between world building and the actual mystery does take

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it up from a three and a half to a five.

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Duncan, this book's fucking cringe.

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Oh my God.

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I don't think I've ever used that word in the entirety of the podcast, but it's really

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it's just true.

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I just don't like the writing style at all.

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I just really can't stand it.

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I certainly think there's a bit of this book where I wonder, is the author doing like,

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because when you talk about earlier, I use the word Noah, and I'm not going to say I

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have great experience in that genre.

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But the bits in this book, I'm like, are you paying homage to something?

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Are you attempting to really strongly walk like the beaten archetype, which I can definitely

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see that angle.

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And also this book, obviously, is focusing with elements of sort of the grim dark.

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And now I definitely think there are moments which it kind of tries to be edgy in a way

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that makes it does look slightly how to say this, 14 year old boy trying to be edgy.

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Yes, yes, absolutely.

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How old was he when you wrote this book?

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That is not a question I can answer right now.

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One second.

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So Daniel Polanski would have been so he's 41 now.

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This book was released in 2011.

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So 14 years ago.

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So that would have made him in his late 20s.

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I guess that checks out.

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I guess that checks out.

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I think if you're of a certain disposition, maybe this could seem really cool.

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The fact that it's written by a man in his 20s instead of his 30s, I think does sort

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of check out.

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Okay, Jordy.

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So you're calling it cringe.

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Can you and do you give the points that I would identify why someone would think of

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it cringe?

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That's very much where you're coming from.

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Yeah, it's all about the fact that it is trying to be dark and brooding and edgy.

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And it's trying to do the noir thing.

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And when I say the noir thing, what I really mean it's it's trying to be Raymond Chandler.

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Duncan, you probably know who Raymond Chandler is.

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Have you ever read his stuff?

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I actually haven't.

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And I do really think I should because I feel like I would like it.

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You definitely would.

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You definitely would, Duncan, because you know, you're someone who enjoys pulpy fiction.

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And Raymond Chandler is a guy who, you know, he was writing novels like he wasn't, you

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know, just writing.

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Actually, you know, I tell a lie.

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I don't know whether he was writing like for magazines and stuff as well, given the era

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he was writing.

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He probably was.

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But he's best known for novels like The Big Sleep.

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But I'm going to read to you a quote from Farewell, My Lovely, another one of his famous

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Philip Marlowe stories.

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This is the iconic detective.

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And let me see if you can sort of recognize the influence he's had on Daniel Polanski.

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I needed a drink.

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I needed a lot of life insurance.

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I needed a vacation.

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I needed a home in the country.

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What I had was a coat, a hat and a gun.

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I put them on and went out of room.

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Alright, so you can hear it, right?

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You can hear what he's going for.

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Yes, definitely.

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And from my perspective, I think it's delivered in a sufficiently enjoyable way.

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So we're talking about Daniel Polanski, we're talking about...

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Yeah, I figured we're talking about Daniel Polanski here.

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So you know, the point I'm making is that he's going for that same dark, jaded detective,

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you know.

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This Philip Marlowe, sorry, this detective is also a down-on-his-luck guy living in a

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fetid city.

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You know, he has like problems with substances.

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Philip Marlowe is an alcoholic, just like Raymond Chandler.

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And you know, he has this sardonic, dark, moody perspective.

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The difference is that it's like charm.

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You got it or you don't.

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And Warden is not as charming as Philip Marlowe.

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He seems like a character who's completely assured of his own intelligence and it makes

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him seem quite smarmy in every scene.

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I would somewhat agree.

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Warden definitely has a cockiness to him.

232
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,240
You know, he thinks because he, due to his sort of background in his training, he's one

233
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,800
step ahead of basically all the criminals that he interacts with.

234
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,960
Now you say kind of smarmy, I think he gives him a slightly cocky edge.

235
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,320
But also, I think, from a reading perspective, because you kind of see that, it sort of means

236
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,720
that when he does sort of blunder, you kind of chalk it down to that, it's like, oh, you've

237
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:35,720
been too cocky.

238
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:40,840
You know, you as a reader can look at him and be like, should have been better.

239
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,200
I mean, that's true.

240
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,480
I mean, it does work in that, you know, he is so assured of his intelligence.

241
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,440
I mean, for one thing, it's all from his perspective.

242
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,040
It's a first person, present tense story.

243
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,360
So you know, like you're always in his head, you're always seeing things the way he is.

244
00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:01,840
But the fact of the matter is the fact that, you know, Polanski is trying to make him seem

245
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,520
cool and down to earth.

246
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,480
I don't really accept that it's just like all through his filter.

247
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:12,480
I think we are supposed to come away with a strongly positive impression of him.

248
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,940
And I can tell you some more reasons why this is the case.

249
00:16:15,940 --> 00:16:21,400
Because just like someone like Philip Marlowe, this is someone who's down on his luck.

250
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,640
He used to be a real copper.

251
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,420
You know, he used to be a lawman and then he got kicked out of the force for nebulous

252
00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:30,460
reasons that aren't explained in this book.

253
00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:32,980
We understand that had something to do with a woman.

254
00:16:32,980 --> 00:16:35,760
We understand that had something to do with drug use.

255
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,040
And now he's a man of the street.

256
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,040
He's a drug dealer.

257
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,700
You know, he's a violent thug in the language of the book.

258
00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:48,720
But the difference there is that Polanski isn't actually interested in having an especially

259
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:57,360
morally complex protagonist because you never actually see him deal drugs to normal people.

260
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,920
You know, if you really wanted to make this dark and kind of shocking, you would have

261
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:08,800
him pushing drugs on vulnerable people, vulnerable poor people who live in his community.

262
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,420
The only people who see him sell drugs to are the extremely rich.

263
00:17:13,420 --> 00:17:17,200
And more than that, they're like textually the bad guys in the story.

264
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:18,960
Yes, I would agree.

265
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,200
There's definitely an element and sorry, I'm doing that thing again.

266
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,400
I'm referencing Robert E Howard's going on where we get told that he does all these bad

267
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,640
things and they always happen off page.

268
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,760
And all the time it's that classic setup of, oh, he's got some rough edges, but you know,

269
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:39,560
deep down he's had a heart of gold and he's looking out for his community.

270
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,480
And that would work better if he actually had some more defined rough edges.

271
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,640
Like he barely starts, you know, he doesn't attack anyone that doesn't really attack him

272
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:49,880
first.

273
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,040
He doesn't do anything unless he thinks it's in the better interest of, you know, solving

274
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,000
the case, finding the murderer.

275
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,000
And you're right.

276
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,920
It's very clear that he's sending drugs to the pompous elites.

277
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,080
He's invited to their parties.

278
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,080
It's on their terms.

279
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,480
They're so high and mighty.

280
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,400
It's almost irrelevant what they're doing.

281
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,120
Yeah, like take characters like Tony Soprano and Walter White.

282
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:17,960
We actually see that like it's some of the most vulnerable people in society who are

283
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,080
caught up in the drug trade.

284
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,840
You know, we feel sympathy for the characters who this is inflicted upon.

285
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,680
We never go like, you know, like, oh, well, it doesn't matter if you're getting a bad,

286
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,320
you know, a bad batch.

287
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:35,560
It doesn't matter what's going to happen next because of yada, yada, yada.

288
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,480
And it's not even like, ah, forget it.

289
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:38,920
You know, I've said enough on this point.

290
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,400
Like because here's the real reason, right?

291
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:46,480
The real reason that you have him being a drug user and a drug pusher is that it's combining

292
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,520
characters like Walter White with Sherlock Holmes.

293
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,280
OK, I can see that.

294
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,280
So what's your, is there a critique in there?

295
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,460
Only in that Sherlock Holmes is a really great character and it just kind of irritated me

296
00:19:01,460 --> 00:19:03,280
to see him compared to Warden.

297
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,600
I think where Warden though does work quite well is the fact that quite often, you know,

298
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,760
when bad things happen or, you know, at the end of this bad day, you see him either kind

299
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,480
of take his own supply.

300
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,120
There's moments where he kind of, he gets completely drunk.

301
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:22,080
He acts out to his like best friend, Adolphus.

302
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,080
And I think there's an element where you're meant to look at him and actually find him

303
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,080
quite pitiful.

304
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,520
Yeah, yeah, I agree.

305
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,080
I think that is somewhat something that works.

306
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:36,840
I remember once listening to a couple of people reviewing the first season of Jessica Jones.

307
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:41,280
And I remember one of them saying that like, you know, in this character you have like

308
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,760
the classic alcoholic detective, you know, an absolute trope at this point.

309
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:52,100
And what they took umbrage with in it is that one of the people said, you know, my ex-partner

310
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:53,920
was an alcoholic.

311
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,440
And we need to understand about alcoholics is that they're the most toxic people on the

312
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:03,680
planet and just being in proximity to them is like being in a proximity to poison.

313
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:09,080
And so the way in which the character, they demonstrated a character like that without

314
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:14,960
actually like inspecting what it would mean to the characters around them who are in their

315
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,640
proximity and who care about them.

316
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:22,280
I'd say at least in this case, yes, Daniel Polanski is doing a better job of showing

317
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:28,240
that the destructive habits of Warden are having an impact on the people around him

318
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:29,720
in his personal life.

319
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:35,200
Adolphus, you know, at one point, like he just has to give Adolphus like really hard

320
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:40,160
truth and tell him like, you're not coming on this mission with me because you're too

321
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,960
fat and you're too old and you were never that good in the first place.

322
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,800
And it's a really brutal line.

323
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,960
And you're like, yeah, this is an effective scene.

324
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:53,840
I'm having to see the main character be an asshole to his best friend in order to keep

325
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,040
him safe.

326
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,560
That's an effective scene.

327
00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:02,760
The fact that like, you know, he can't keep Ren out of danger and the fact that like his

328
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:08,560
method for trying to teach Ren and getting to grow up doesn't work and we see it not

329
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,320
work on the page.

330
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:11,320
That's effective stuff.

331
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:12,320
I agree.

332
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:13,400
Just to do a quick flyby.

333
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:21,200
So Adolphus is Warden's best friend, arguably only friend, the old ex-soldier buddies and

334
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:27,840
Adolphus when he came back from the war, opened up a tavern and it's from this tavern that

335
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,480
our character Warden basically operates out of.

336
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,960
Ren is a street urchin who picks up in the early parts of the story who kind of hangs

337
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:41,560
around and then Warden begrudgingly is like, well, I'm going to try and guide you in my

338
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,400
best broken way.

339
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,120
I really like, yeah, yeah.

340
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:49,680
And so adjusting to things I really like because, you know, you friend a lot.

341
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,880
Now let me, let me come back some things I really like because one of the things I said

342
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,480
that I really like obviously the world building here I think is a lot better than something

343
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,880
like the Ghost Prayer, but I actually really like a lot of these characters.

344
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,760
So we talked about Warden and you said, you know, you're meant to find something cool.

345
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,320
I debate that slightly.

346
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,840
I think you actually meant to make a little bit more pitiful and pick up on the sense

347
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:12,400
of his own inflated ego because I don't think there's that many moments where he actually

348
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,120
throws down the line and everyone's meant to applaud.

349
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:16,920
Like he actually gets roughed up.

350
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:17,920
Oh, disagree.

351
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:18,920
And I can prove it.

352
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:19,920
I think there's that many moments.

353
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:20,920
I didn't say any moment.

354
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:21,920
Go ahead but I'll come.

355
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:22,920
I'll come back.

356
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,000
I also like the other characters, the character of Adolphus.

357
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,080
I really like the fact that in there both of them throw down hard truths.

358
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,960
You know, you can tell that they have this deep friendship from what they've been through,

359
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,360
but they're not quite on the same page anymore, but because of their history that neither

360
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:42,880
of them is going to up and dump the other.

361
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,040
So I really thought that was a nice take.

362
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,480
I actually wish Adolphus maybe did go on a little bit more of the adventure with him.

363
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,760
I know the key point is that Warden tells him he can't, because I really like that interaction,

364
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,080
but I do like it how at the end of the day, every kind of day of investigation, Warden

365
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,920
comes back to the tavern and Adolphus is just like, what happened to you?

366
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,880
And this is when we get to the pitiful moments where Warden, you know, doesn't get to maybe

367
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,800
open up to his friend and have that sort of healthy communication like we'd ever expect

368
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:11,800
it.

369
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,880
He either gets completely drunk or goes and takes his own supply, or just lies down in

370
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:15,880
his bed.

371
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:16,880
So that was really nice.

372
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,240
I also liked it when they just- Yes, yes Duncan.

373
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:26,080
Yes, that's all true, but what you're missing there is the suffering in silence and going

374
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,640
about your business and not talking to your friend is part of the same power fantasy as

375
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,400
being a guy in a room who's smarter than everyone else.

376
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:39,620
I think, ah, now this is where, maybe, and this isn't 100th century because I did enjoy

377
00:23:39,620 --> 00:23:42,720
this book more before I finished the whole trilogy.

378
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,960
Later on in the series, I think Daniel Polanski does deliver a very strong message about how

379
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,760
this is not the right way to go about things, but I was actually surprised reading this

380
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:53,760
first book.

381
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:54,760
It's not here.

382
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,040
I want to make that clear.

383
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:02,440
I don't, yeah, okay, that's fine, but we don't need there to be a, like, I wasn't

384
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,880
said, said they again, Sunset Boulevard, like, oh, one of the message kids, you know, telling

385
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,480
a story isn't enough, huh?

386
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,920
You know, I don't need the book to morally grandstand and tell me what's right and wrong.

387
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:21,240
All I tend to point out is that the book doesn't work for me because the whole book is smarmy.

388
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:27,000
The whole book is channeling behind the, you know, you're following the guy who thinks

389
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,600
he's smarter than everyone else and who you're supposed to think is cool.

390
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,640
And the reason I know people are supposed to think this is cool and people do think

391
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,840
this is cool because people like this book is because I read this book on Kindle.

392
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,560
I couldn't get an audiobook version this time, so I read it on Kindle.

393
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,040
And when you read something on Kindle, you can see the places that other people have

394
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,040
underlined the bits that people have highlighted.

395
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,640
So I'm going to read a section.

396
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,360
I hadn't tooled up before going to visit Mary.

397
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:01,240
Seemed like a bad way to make an impression, but I wouldn't need a weapon to get the jump

398
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,240
on this skinny little bastard.

399
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,600
The only thing better than ambushing a motherfucker is ambushing the motherfucker who thinks he's

400
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:08,600
ambushing you.

401
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:09,600
Okay, right.

402
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,600
There's a touch more of a cringe in that, I'll admit.

403
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,240
I think my counterpoint that I'm trying to say why this didn't come off as bad to me

404
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,320
is that because he goes out with this smiling attitude, but inevitably rocks off at the

405
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,120
end of the day a bit more broken, I think it strikes a balance.

406
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:29,660
Whether or not the majority of people see it or not, that was my takeaway.

407
00:25:29,660 --> 00:25:33,280
But it's not a question to me of like, he's giving me his comeuppance.

408
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:39,980
The point is that I have to spend all my time with this guy acting like he's so smart.

409
00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:43,880
And what it comes down to as well is the actual way the book is written.

410
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,100
Now that doesn't come across in the passage I've just read because what we're looking

411
00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:51,100
at there is straightforward, down to earth stuff.

412
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:56,340
But occasionally, and I don't even mean occasionally, on a very frequent basis, you really get the

413
00:25:56,340 --> 00:26:03,520
sense that Daniel Polanski just loves big words and big words employed for no real effect.

414
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,840
I mean, there's a scene there.

415
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,200
You want to talk about one of those scenes where he's casually using drugs to get through

416
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,200
the day.

417
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,960
There's a bit he starts a chapter by saying, you know, this isn't an exact quote, but one

418
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:22,960
of these words is, I woke up feeling groggy from the pipe I had immolated.

419
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:29,440
What, you don't tell me how you don't get to work and say how you immolated your breakfast?

420
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,480
Not even that because what he's saying is he'd burnt like immolate means, you know,

421
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,040
obviously it means to burn something.

422
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,020
But you don't say, oh I immolated a pack of cigarettes.

423
00:26:40,020 --> 00:26:41,120
That's insane.

424
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,340
No one would ever talk like that.

425
00:26:43,340 --> 00:26:50,520
Like to me, immolate is like completely destroy down to the finest ash, you know?

426
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:51,520
Just say smoked.

427
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,400
Like it's not impressive to use big words like this.

428
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,840
I love this discussing your backup so much.

429
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,960
And here I stand, I'm like, I mean, I don't like ink horns at the best of times.

430
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:03,960
Okay.

431
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,000
You've got your points, your stance.

432
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,840
I will stand by that I somewhat disagree with your interpretation of, or at least I had

433
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,320
a different experience with the character of Warden, which probably might be you to

434
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,320
most people.

435
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,760
I will say if you are one of those people that would find the character who is very

436
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,480
cocky, cocksure, fun to read about, this book's got you mate.

437
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,480
Don't you worry.

438
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,360
15 year olds, it's here.

439
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:30,360
Let's then move on.

440
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:32,600
Can we actually talk a bit more about Wren?

441
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,600
Wren is a character.

442
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,600
What do you think about him?

443
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,600
Wren's fine.

444
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:38,800
There's not really a lot to him.

445
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,720
He's sort of a plucky art for dodger character.

446
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,520
I like his interactions and main character.

447
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:50,440
I like here, I like what seeing warden sort of mold him into a new version himself and

448
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:51,720
it not working.

449
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,280
Yeah, I like him.

450
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:54,280
Okay.

451
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,280
I get the impression from your question that Wren is very important to the sequels.

452
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,280
Well, the problem is what's actually I find the difficulty answer is that I basically

453
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:02,280
would say it.

454
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:03,960
Everything you've just said, I was going to call him plucky.

455
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,680
I've got to call him the art for dodger character.

456
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,360
I was going to tell you, I was really interested about how warden tries to mold him, except

457
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:14,240
I was just going to say it all with far more enthusiasm.

458
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,800
It's so funny to that we've read the same book and we've got almost the same points.

459
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,200
We just liked it differently.

460
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,160
This is very hard to come to the stress.

461
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,320
Yeah, I mean, that's the difference, right?

462
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,200
Is that you read this book and you said it's an eight out of 10 and I read this book and

463
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,640
I observed in the same way you did and I said it was a five out of 10.

464
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,640
Oh gosh.

465
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,960
It's like when the I think I think Miss Worn.

466
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:37,960
Is it Miss Worn?

467
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:38,960
I'm going to go.

468
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,560
Yeah, I think it's a Miss Worn where like the or just Brandon Sanderson in general,

469
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,840
his detractors and the many people have positives like they bring up the same points.

470
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,240
It's just some like them.

471
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:50,240
Some don't.

472
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,240
Yeah, exactly.

473
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,880
This is very direct with me.

474
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:53,880
I like that.

475
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:54,880
I do not.

476
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,160
There's not a lot you can kind of shake down the middle.

477
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,560
I like seeing this plucky character and I really do enjoy wardens attempts to, you know,

478
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,560
I like the fact that warden to send me a thinks he's doing the right thing.

479
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,520
He's like, I'm, you know, I'm getting this kid ready to face the harsh world.

480
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,920
And it kind of goes wrong in so many ways.

481
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,600
One it's sort of the are you kind of just doing a bit of self corruption and to your

482
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,280
effect that this kid isn't you.

483
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:27,280
He's not a younger you warden and he has his own feelings, vibes and wants.

484
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,800
What do you think it goes so wrong?

485
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,720
Actually from your perspective, Duncan, I before I answer that question, I was just

486
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,440
scrolling through my Kindle trying to find an example of overly flowery language.

487
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,640
That I was complaining about and I actually found a line which I underscored because I

488
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:50,520
felt it was deeply ironic where he comes back in and says, and Adolphus says, I'm sorry.

489
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:56,960
He said simply the fact that he honestly meant it worth more than any attempted eloquence

490
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:57,960
looking in mirror.

491
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:58,960
Plansky.

492
00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,960
Come on.

493
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:00,960
I think that's fine.

494
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,880
If anything, because it's from wardens perspective, completely from my, that made this argument

495
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,200
because it's from warner's perspective, does that not just sort of hint at the fact that

496
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,880
warden has a deeper intellectual side that he doesn't let out in any of the way.

497
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,880
What are you talking about?

498
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,760
He warden doesn't let out his intellectual side.

499
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:22,160
He spins a whole thing waffling in high in high flowery language and like there's bits

500
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:28,200
in it that like they, he, okay, I'm getting a bit flustered and upset now, but there is

501
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:34,960
a bit which I find frustrating is that yes, you, Danny Polanski has him be this rough

502
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:40,480
man of the streets, you know, like a orphan of this disease that's swept through the city,

503
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:46,800
but he also has him be the protege of like the high wizard who looks after the city and

504
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,880
like has, has tutored him through his adolescence.

505
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:57,680
So on one hand he is both this rough guy of the streets, but he's also this very adroit

506
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,720
well-educated young man.

507
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,200
I don't have an issue of that per se, it's just that I feel like there's a strong friction

508
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,540
that exists here.

509
00:31:05,540 --> 00:31:11,280
And frankly, it almost, it almost comes across as like a sort of classism because obviously

510
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,160
it's about a detective and detectives are supposed to be clever characters.

511
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,560
That's what's so enjoyable about seeing them put together clues.

512
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:25,800
I find it frustrating the fact that he feels that he has to make him this adroit character

513
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,840
who's well read, who reads like at one point at later part of the book, a history book

514
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,960
before he goes to bed, you know, like he's Sherlock Holmes, he has a, you know, a bookcase

515
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:42,040
full of reference materials, but he doesn't want him to just speak in plain language or

516
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:47,840
just be a, you know, a guy who's from down the street, you know, just a clever working

517
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:48,840
man.

518
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:54,160
He has to be adroit and he has to be a scholar and raised by this wise wizard.

519
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,840
That's definitely a bit of a backstory that always kind of jarred with me because we basically

520
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:07,520
learned that Warden has been a street urchin, a wizard's apprentice, a war vet and almost

521
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,720
basically a war hero at one point.

522
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:15,920
Also, he was a lead detective in the secret police organization and you are just a bit

523
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:21,680
like, oh, don't forget Duncan when he was, when he was put into like the secret CIA as

524
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,840
well because he was like in port charge of special operations.

525
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,960
I've basically always thought when reading this book, so we learn a lot about, I believe

526
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,320
it's called Black House, which is the secret operations.

527
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,760
You know, these are the people putting the strings behind not only society, but basically

528
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,280
the government as well.

529
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,280
Yeah.

530
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,920
And I just don't buy it.

531
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,720
So you want to me we learn is in an incident, which is less ambiguous in this book is disgraced

532
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,160
and it's kicked out and there's just a bit of me was like, I get the vibe.

533
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,640
This is the organization that probably would have just killed him.

534
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,640
Yeah, absolutely.

535
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,800
We're not even talking about the CIA.

536
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,000
We're talking about like the SMBP.

537
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,840
This is a secret police.

538
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:08,800
You don't let that guy retire and then take up residence in like, and like take him take

539
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,680
a section of the criminal underworld.

540
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,000
I'm shaking my head.

541
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,600
It is just a bit silly.

542
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,720
Like, just don't have him be a secret agent.

543
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,560
Just stop one step before that, you know?

544
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,240
I think it would have worked very well if he was just a normal detective.

545
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,680
And then it could just play into like the realization of the corrupt society that he's

546
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:29,680
operating in.

547
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,640
That's a key point of the story is the fact that he is trying to represent the people

548
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,800
in Lowtown because, you know, the greater mechanisms aren't going to deal with these

549
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,120
murders.

550
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,600
So he's got to step in.

551
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:41,600
Yeah, absolutely.

552
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:48,200
Like, a big theme of the story is that, you know, this is a sort of vigilante detective

553
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,400
who has to step up because the police aren't going to do anything.

554
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:52,400
Do you know what?

555
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,880
I was about to segue into the murder itself, but almost now I'm like, oh, I could segue

556
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,760
into the the world road in the greater plot.

557
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,240
I think we're going to hit the murder itself.

558
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,760
Jordy, this is a murder mystery.

559
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,080
What did you think of it as a murder mystery?

560
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,040
Come on, put that one down.

561
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,680
Did you like the turns, the steps of the investigation and the ultimate reveal?

562
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:19,200
Like, because I personally thought that this murder mystery was very enjoyable because

563
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,520
although it wasn't something where I could necessarily piece it all together from I see

564
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:29,280
this, you know, these elements late, the breadcrumbs laid for me in the plot by Daniel Polanski.

565
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,480
And there was definitely an element of I'm going to make a guess based on the type of

566
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,280
story Daniel Polanski is very clearly telling.

567
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:44,880
I did enjoy going through the motions of this murder mystery.

568
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,480
I enjoyed seeing one body show up.

569
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,480
We meet some people.

570
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,960
We have a conversation which I generally enjoyed a lot of those sort of interview stage bits.

571
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,400
And then another body shows up and it evolves and it had intention builds and builds and

572
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,400
builds.

573
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:58,760
Um, I don't know.

574
00:34:58,760 --> 00:34:59,760
I'm in two minds.

575
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:05,200
On one hand, I kind of like a bunch of the twists and turns.

576
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,360
The resolution wasn't what I expected.

577
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,920
I made a mental note that because I was reading again, I was reading on Kindle, I could see

578
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,800
my exact progress for the book.

579
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:21,520
So at 52%, I made a mental note of exactly what I thought the ending the book was going

580
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:22,960
to be.

581
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,320
And I got like one and a half things wrong and everything else right.

582
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,260
But unfortunately, those one and a half things were actually quite big.

583
00:35:30,260 --> 00:35:35,600
So yeah, I'd say I definitively got it wrong.

584
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:42,280
So to lay it out quite plainly, the mystery is that as children are going missing, they

585
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:52,480
turn up murdered and then, uh, and it seems like at first it's a common, you know, child

586
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,940
molester who's doing this.

587
00:35:54,940 --> 00:35:58,060
But ultimately the twist adds up.

588
00:35:58,060 --> 00:36:01,840
One thing actually I'll say jumping right here, something I really like about this book

589
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:09,080
and I think it is really effectively is dropping in the different fantasy elements one by one.

590
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:16,320
When you first start this book, there's absolutely no indication that it's a fancy story at all.

591
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,520
And then like one little thing gets dropped in.

592
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,400
Oh, and then, and just one more thing, and then one more thing, and it drips you through

593
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:29,280
until like halfway through the book until you have the full, uh, the absolute full picture

594
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,240
of all the different magical stuff.

595
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:35,460
For example, when he catches the child molester and he's about to pin him down and beat him

596
00:36:35,460 --> 00:36:41,000
up and take him in, a demon shows up and demons have never been mentioned in this book up

597
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,000
till now.

598
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,220
You know, we know there are wizards by this point, not demons.

599
00:36:45,220 --> 00:36:50,080
So when it does show up, it is shocking and it like widens the scope and it does create

600
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,340
this really effective moment of, oh man, how deep does this go?

601
00:36:54,340 --> 00:36:55,560
So kudos there.

602
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:56,800
That was a really good trick.

603
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,680
Oh, a positive note.

604
00:36:58,680 --> 00:36:59,680
Excellent.

605
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,120
I've said lots of positive things about this book.

606
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,880
We just happened to have spoken about all the crap stuff for a while.

607
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,560
No, and I really like that because I also like the fact that the world building, it

608
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,360
doesn't feel like we're pausing to, it's not like we're taking long pauses.

609
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:14,840
Let me check, correct myself.

610
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,600
We do pause for world building, but not taking long pauses.

611
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,920
As the murder mystery evolves, we're slowly seeing more and more of this world.

612
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,960
And as Warden goes on his investigation to new places, we then learn more about those

613
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:31,840
areas, particularly all contained in this city, which by the way, I really enjoy the

614
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,920
fact that, no, so I'm going off, stay on the murder mystery Duncan.

615
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,920
Yeah, we'll come back to that.

616
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,240
I mean, you like that element.

617
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:46,140
And I thought, I like the fact that because of, you know, a lot of these characters who

618
00:37:46,140 --> 00:37:52,160
are getting murdered, they're not ones that we have a big emotional connection to.

619
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,240
That's you know, it's not something that we meet beforehand and we grow a relation with

620
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:57,160
and then they die.

621
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:02,520
But the fact that we're kind of generally, we're seeing the people who are being impacted

622
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,920
and we're getting a sense of this community as a whole.

623
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,560
I still felt incredibly driven to be like, okay, let's find out.

624
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,960
Let's stop this before someone we actually do care about gets hurt.

625
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,720
Yeah, because once you've introduced the fact that like he has a young protege, it's like

626
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:22,160
pretty obvious where that aspect of the story is going.

627
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,280
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

628
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,100
Sometimes seeing a twist coming way in the future is actually a good thing.

629
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:29,480
Sometimes that creates tension.

630
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,520
And I think that works effectively here with Ren.

631
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,960
You've got a character you kind of like, you see that he's the one who's going to be in

632
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,800
danger later on.

633
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,340
He is in danger.

634
00:38:39,340 --> 00:38:40,340
That's good writing.

635
00:38:40,340 --> 00:38:41,340
Good job.

636
00:38:41,340 --> 00:38:47,000
I'd also say on that point, Jordi, tell me if you disagree, but due to the general tone

637
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:54,220
of this story, I genuinely wasn't confident if Daniel Polanski was going to kill off Ren

638
00:38:54,220 --> 00:38:56,680
or let him be saved.

639
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,520
Like no, there's enough ambiguity I thought could go either way.

640
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,360
No, disagree.

641
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:07,160
The only difference is that I thought this is literally the only difference that I...

642
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,840
Okay, I'll lay it out now.

643
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,160
Spoilers ahead.

644
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,680
There are two things that got wrong about the climax.

645
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,320
I predicted most of it straight down the line and said, okay, yes.

646
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:25,880
The big thing I got wrong was that I thought that the person doing the murders, or at least

647
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,600
the first murder, was Blue Ren, was his mentor.

648
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,720
The reason I thought this is I thought the big twist was going to be that the wards that

649
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:42,120
had shown up in order to stop the plague in the first place had been accomplished through

650
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,000
the exact same means.

651
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:50,600
It was demon magic used by human sacrificing children.

652
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:58,680
And therefore, as the wards were failing now that he was dying, it had to be repeated again.

653
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:07,960
So the first child that goes is Blue Ren demonstrating how to do this to a cabal of wizards, which

654
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,240
could or might not include Celia.

655
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:17,960
And the reason why I felt there was a really strong indication this would be the case was

656
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:25,020
that there was a big note in the story that the children were abducted without force.

657
00:40:25,020 --> 00:40:29,320
And what we learn is that Ren is really good with kids.

658
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:37,180
So it made sense to me that Blue Ren would be able to lure kids away by using his special

659
00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:40,720
magic flute, which entertains children.

660
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:47,600
And it would be extra grim and dark if he, the guy who raised two children, turned out

661
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,840
to be a child murderer.

662
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,560
And the reason why he's so upset when he finds out that a second murder has happened is that

663
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,240
he's like, oh no, it's still happening.

664
00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:59,080
It didn't work just once.

665
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,720
And now these wizards I've trained how to recreate the wards are still doing it.

666
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:08,480
I mean, that is actually a really good theory, Jordy.

667
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,760
And we'll definitely deliver a very different emotional sucker punch if that had turned

668
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,760
out.

669
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,000
Just a little backstory to people who maybe haven't read the book and what Jordy's just

670
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,000
described.

671
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,360
So pre the start of the story, when our main character Warden is a child, there is a plague

672
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:29,840
that ravages the city and everyone praises Blue Ren, also known as the Crane, who is

673
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,400
a great magician who basically-

674
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,680
Sorry, yeah, Blue Crane, not Ren.

675
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:34,680
That's my bad.

676
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:35,680
I'm sorry.

677
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,600
I was thinking like, was that mentioned?

678
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:45,320
I knew it was the Crane for how the wizard who put up the wards, the Crane, and he saved

679
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:50,280
the day and then he eventually adopts the orphans of the plague, one being our main

680
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:51,280
character Warden.

681
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,680
He, Juggie Ford, and Tyne.

682
00:41:53,680 --> 00:42:02,920
Celia, a girl who Warden finds in the ruins of a city and takes to Crane to raise and

683
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,320
she becomes his apprentice.

684
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:09,200
Yes, it is worth noting that Warden doesn't really have any of that kind of background

685
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,360
magical training, whereas Celia does.

686
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:20,040
So Warden ultimately leads and pursues his own life of soldiering and CIA-ing and ultimately

687
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:26,400
a drug dealer mob bossering, as all young kids do.

688
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,080
So that's a good theory.

689
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:33,680
Ultimately what we get instead is that Celia is the one who's doing it.

690
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,720
This was not the method it was done before, but in sort of a panic that the wards are

691
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:43,160
failing she's attempting to do any level of magic, a sort of experimentation to find

692
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,160
a way to stop the plague returning.

693
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,400
Yeah, so the difference there is that- and this is the big twist which surprised me is

694
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:57,520
that Ren- no, Crane found an actual perfect means, but other people cannot replicate it.

695
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:04,720
And so, Omelas style, the plague can only be kept at bay now through continuous child

696
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:07,360
sacrifice which is very grim.

697
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:12,980
I felt like there was going to be a big twist at the end, be like, no, we only need one

698
00:43:12,980 --> 00:43:16,160
more child if we just kill Ren.

699
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:17,160
Nope.

700
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,160
Yes, yes, Ren, not Crane this time.

701
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,320
I do mean Ren.

702
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,680
Then we'll be able to keep off the plague forever.

703
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:28,520
And the big challenge at the end would be Warden saying-

704
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,240
What, the last of us?

705
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:31,240
The last of us, yes.

706
00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:32,240
Again.

707
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:33,240
Again.

708
00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:35,960
Would be him saying, no, I'm not going to let you sacrifice this child because it's

709
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:36,960
wrong.

710
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,680
I mean, he'd take it back and then he'd be responsible for everything that comes after.

711
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,260
But actually, no, there's no indication that he'd ever stop killing children.

712
00:43:45,260 --> 00:43:50,160
So there really isn't that much- I mean, I guess it's still a quandary, but it would

713
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,600
mean that everyone would just have to be really cool about child murder.

714
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:59,760
And I don't think there's any real scenario where you'll expect any protagonist to be

715
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,360
like, yep, let it slide.

716
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,360
Keep it going, Celia.

717
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:10,400
No, I think there's a low level more quandary in the sense that, you know, how many people

718
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:11,760
died to the plague.

719
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:18,400
I see this work in a very mathematical weighing up there, but there's no quandary for our

720
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:19,840
main character Warden, really.

721
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:25,120
He would have to abandon his whole campaign and just be like, yeah, sure thing.

722
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,240
Yep, I didn't see anything.

723
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:28,120
I'll just go back to whatever.

724
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,960
So, yeah, the murder mystery is okay.

725
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,160
I like it enough.

726
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:39,900
You can see where it's coming from a long way off, but again, I say that having got

727
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:46,400
some really important issues wrong, because the other thing which I got wrong was I thought

728
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:56,320
that I knew that the blade or beacon field, I knew that he was like not the main bad guy.

729
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,520
And that was something he needed to figure out.

730
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:03,440
But I was still trying to figure out, but how is he connected?

731
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,280
He must be connected somehow, but it's not obvious why.

732
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,280
And the big twist is he's not connected at all.

733
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,480
It's literally a red herring that he's been deliberately tricked into believing, which

734
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,840
is it is on one hand, it is a good twist because it tricked me.

735
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,480
I didn't see that coming.

736
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,080
On the other hand, it's like, oh, what I can't make it onto a bit of a waste of time, doesn't

737
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:26,080
it?

738
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:32,460
I was saying not just because I do enjoy the fact that firstly, he gives a sort of a physical

739
00:45:32,460 --> 00:45:34,800
challenge to warden.

740
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,860
And the fact that he sort of going down this path, we do it is an excuse to explore many

741
00:45:38,860 --> 00:45:40,560
other aspects of the world.

742
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,000
Yeah, but the those aspects of the world aren't important.

743
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:51,600
If that guy isn't in the story, you know, well, you know, the upper echelons and the

744
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,840
nobles, they aren't important to the story.

745
00:45:54,840 --> 00:46:00,840
If that character isn't in it, it's not like if fair beacon wasn't in the story, and we

746
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,760
didn't have those scenes at his parties.

747
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,000
I'd be like, well, hang on, what are the nobles up to?

748
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,200
I wouldn't care.

749
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:15,040
And I want to say one more thing, which is that, you know, this is it's this book really

750
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:20,040
reeks of being written by an American when it's talking about the like the upper crust.

751
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,040
You know what I mean?

752
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,640
Oh, I do know what you mean.

753
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,000
No, I don't know what how do the Americans differ?

754
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:32,720
Well, it's just the way in which so like, there are I've seen hundreds of British writers

755
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:38,600
complain about the aristocracy in a way that is of a lived experience, because the main

756
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:46,040
difference is it's more than just, you know, okay, so, okay, so it's it's that's the that's

757
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,920
the fundamental thing when it comes down to if you're a British person, the main resentment

758
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:54,840
you'll have against the uppers classes is that they have a lot of money, which probably

759
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,720
shouldn't all belong to them.

760
00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:58,920
Well, it also speaks.

761
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,800
It also speaks to the several other aspects as well, I would find, because often you get

762
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,680
the element of it's not just about wealth.

763
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:12,760
You can't just be rich enough and be the same as your traditional aristocracy.

764
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,900
There's like there's an other element.

765
00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:20,800
And it's the other thing, which is that things like the sense of tradition and of innate

766
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:27,680
more importance of greater worthiness is is felt much more from a British perspective,

767
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,120
you know, these are people who genuinely somehow believe they're bulletproof.

768
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:36,240
You know, they believe there's something special about them that sets them apart from common

769
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:37,240
people.

770
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:41,520
But that's not the way Daniel Polanski writes about them.

771
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,040
The way Daniel Polanski writes about them is the way I hear aristocracy spoken about

772
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:50,680
by Americans all the time, which is that they just focus on the inbreeding, which is not

773
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,520
unique to them, which is not unique to them.

774
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,200
We're not defending inbreeding.

775
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,800
It's just that this is something which I hear Americans talk about all the time, especially

776
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,200
in the context of when they talk about, say, European history.

777
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:10,840
They really play up the idea of aristocrats or kings and queens marrying their cousins

778
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,160
and stuff, which is definitely true.

779
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,440
That did happen like a bunch.

780
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:20,680
But it's not the all encompassing thing you guys think it is, you know, it's it's part

781
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:26,320
of the the sort of the larger context of keeping like the wealth in the family and within certain

782
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:27,320
circles.

783
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:28,920
That was part of the hoarding the wealth element.

784
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:34,920
But I think the the key point I would say, if you're someone from across the pond listening

785
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,920
to this, I think some of the more key points is also is what Georgie said, that kind of

786
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:43,440
self-importance, because obviously, particularly in Britain, the royal family is closely related

787
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:48,120
to the church and actual divinity by our national rules.

788
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,360
And the little divine right of kings.

789
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,360
Yes, that took us down to the rest of the aristocracy.

790
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,400
And also, I find we talk about cumulative wealth.

791
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,920
Yes, it can seem unfair that some people come, you know, have a lot more to start with.

792
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:02,920
They have advantages.

793
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:03,920
That's how they climb to such heights.

794
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,520
But the thing with the aristocracy is that that I think I personally think is more of

795
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:12,400
an important factor is that a lot of that wealth was accumulated when literally the

796
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,120
rules were different.

797
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:20,080
It's like we took it back when we were allowed to just murder and take it.

798
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,880
And now all of a sudden, you can't do that.

799
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:23,880
That ain't the game anymore.

800
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:24,880
Exactly.

801
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,400
We won't give it back.

802
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:32,160
I feel like if Daniel Plancy wanted to give what felt like a more grounded in the world

803
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:38,480
criticism of grounded in the world criticism of an ability, it wouldn't be just by showing

804
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:44,880
them going to a bunch of parties and drinking a bunch and being degenerate.

805
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:50,880
If you really wanted to make fun of them, you would show them having silly traditions.

806
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,840
You would show them like going through this.

807
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:59,280
It comes close to at one point when they talk about like the boarding school, which domain

808
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,880
which domain villain went to like that.

809
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:02,880
That's close.

810
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,540
You're almost getting it there.

811
00:50:04,540 --> 00:50:09,720
But if you just talked about them going off on silly hunts where they would dress up in

812
00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:14,320
fancy clothes and doing that and like having big parties where they all just made kind

813
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:21,080
of fools of themselves, that would be a much more on the nose, close to the skin criticism

814
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:26,680
and mockery as opposed to just this like caricature that's drawn in this story, which just doesn't

815
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:32,520
feel like someone who has any actual knowledge or experience of living in a country with

816
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:33,520
an upper class.

817
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,000
You know, well, that's I've misspoken there because obviously America does have an upper

818
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,000
class.

819
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,000
That's a different thing.

820
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,560
But I would never say it is.

821
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:42,560
I hear your point.

822
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:44,920
I think there's been nuance that could have been added.

823
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:50,720
But personally, I don't think it nearly knocks the plot all that much, mostly because it's

824
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:52,920
not that relevant to the plot to begin with.

825
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:59,400
Yeah, I'll say one thing more about I'll say two things more about this section.

826
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:07,560
One is that I'm annoyed that Daniel Polanski developed and used the idea of a noble who's

827
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:12,700
an incredibly good duelist and basically uses that to be a serial killer.

828
00:51:12,700 --> 00:51:15,960
Because I had that idea, but I didn't write it down for Daniel Polanski.

829
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,040
So I'm quite annoyed about that.

830
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,040
Such a shame.

831
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:24,480
So, Jordi, I think we're getting the talks of world building.

832
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:30,000
I did have two criticisms here, Duncan, and this one is frankly unforgivable, which is

833
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,720
that Fair Beacon's Hunchman, what's his name?

834
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:38,560
It's also it's Beaconfield.

835
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:39,560
What I say?

836
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:40,560
Fair Beacon.

837
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:41,560
Right.

838
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:42,560
And yes, this.

839
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:43,560
All right.

840
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,760
Well, thank you, Duncan, for backing me up because the other guy, his name starts with

841
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,600
fair and it's fair be something.

842
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,120
And that's super confusing.

843
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:59,640
It's so frustrating and confusing because I'm like, come on, just just just tell me what

844
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,680
his name is.

845
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,520
Because they are impossible to keep straight.

846
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:08,480
Every time it mentioned one of them, I'd be like, wait, which one are you talking about?

847
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:09,800
These names are identical.

848
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,440
I've never complained about Sauron.

849
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:12,440
No, they're not.

850
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,960
One starts with a B, one starts with an F.

851
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,640
It's not that hard.

852
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:18,320
Fair Beacon and Brightfellow.

853
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:19,320
To me, these names are identical.

854
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,520
OK, they both start with a B. I'll give you that.

855
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,480
Well, they don't they're alternating F's and B's.

856
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,060
So it's not as close as I made it out to be.

857
00:52:26,060 --> 00:52:27,060
But still, I could never.

858
00:52:27,060 --> 00:52:28,060
It's Beaconfield.

859
00:52:28,060 --> 00:52:32,120
Literally at one point, one of those characters dies and I thought the wizard was dead.

860
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,240
I'm like, OK, now get the nobleman.

861
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:35,400
But the nobleman was dead.

862
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:36,400
I just hadn't realized.

863
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,720
Do you have anything nice to say now?

864
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:42,240
So I think this is good fun to bring up to the wider world building because I actually

865
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:44,520
think this is quite a nicely put together world.

866
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:45,520
I'd say so.

867
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,520
Now, obviously one of the main elements in Lowtown is the idea of the classes and the

868
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,520
class divide.

869
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:56,120
So we just address the fact that there is this upper class that represented as this

870
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:04,360
debaucherous, rich folk who go to parties and have no cares for the problems of the

871
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:05,360
little people.

872
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:06,360
Fine.

873
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,440
We also get the fact, you know, but we also get when we get into Lowtown, the fact that

874
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,680
Lowtown is quite a multi-port of different cultures.

875
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,720
And I thought that was quite interesting.

876
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:24,000
Look at the fact that the way we're seeing the city is that I found it so kind of multifaceted

877
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,400
without being like going to like full on fantasy.

878
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:32,280
And since I'm trying to say that there aren't like fancy people, these are all people.

879
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:33,520
And it's something that I can sort of see.

880
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:38,960
It gives me very much that sort of 18th century London vibes, which I imagine is what Plandeski

881
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:39,960
was going for.

882
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,600
Well, I would say he's going for more of an 18th century New York vibe.

883
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:43,780
But I hear what you're saying.

884
00:53:43,780 --> 00:53:44,960
And I thought this was actually really nicely.

885
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:50,640
But I felt like I understood who these groups were, where they were standing, what their

886
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,800
opinions and other groups were.

887
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:53,800
It is a bit of a shame.

888
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,360
I feel like this didn't play into the narrative as much, but I felt the fact that how it got

889
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:02,800
built through these interactions, for example, Warden doesn't just tell us about these parties

890
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,160
of the rich nobleman.

891
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:09,500
He gets to go to one whenever we're meeting new sort of groups in Lowtown.

892
00:54:09,500 --> 00:54:13,880
It's not like he just goes down to the bar and Adolphus says, Oh, have you heard they've

893
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:15,280
come in on a boat this morning?

894
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:20,360
Like Jordan goes down there, you get to see how they live and then it will have sort of

895
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:21,360
a frame.

896
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,160
Often in the investigation, he'll have a little vignette.

897
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:29,440
We'll talk to them and they'll tell what would be about what's going on for them.

898
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:30,440
And I like that.

899
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,280
I think it adds a lot of flavor to that.

900
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:38,440
Yeah, like there's a bit where they say that, you know, like an island, like their most

901
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,600
popular trade is working in the Royal Navy.

902
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,200
And you're like, and then you have someone say like, Oh, well, my son's missing and he

903
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,920
will be for the next nine months and he'll be back and he'll be gone for another nine

904
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:49,920
months.

905
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,440
And that's a nice bit of in text world building.

906
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:58,800
And I think by kind of giving that kind of ledness to it, it then makes me care more

907
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:05,040
about this world, because the big threat to this, the sort of existential threat of, you

908
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,660
know, beside the murders is the plague.

909
00:55:07,660 --> 00:55:11,660
So I think to have that actually have an impact or a sense of impact in the story, you need

910
00:55:11,660 --> 00:55:14,080
to have a sense of this community.

911
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:15,080
I think that was what.

912
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:16,080
Yeah, totally.

913
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:17,760
I agree.

914
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,960
And when the story ends and Warden stood there and he's going off the walls are going to

915
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,320
drop the place going to return.

916
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,320
I felt it.

917
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,880
I was like, Oh my God, all these people that we've been interacting with, like this is

918
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:29,880
going to be devastating.

919
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:33,920
I'm actually really interested to see how this developed in the next tale.

920
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:35,080
I definitely agree.

921
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:40,760
I think that was something that works about this in a way that didn't work in the Gutter's

922
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:46,280
prayer is that I really do feel for the city and I really do feel like it's a living, breathing

923
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,960
place that has a character of its own.

924
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:54,740
I will say, I think that is somewhat helped by the fact that rather than creating like

925
00:55:54,740 --> 00:56:05,360
fictional nations, it's just like China and Pacific Islanders and nebulous Africa, you

926
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:06,360
know?

927
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:07,360
Yes, that is definitely a part.

928
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,200
And I think also that kind of talks about some of the issues we talked about the very

929
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:14,360
side of this podcast, that first sort of black mark is to kind of get this through all these

930
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:18,760
different people, air quotes, efficiently.

931
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,600
We do butt up against archetypes and the vast majority I think stand on the right side of

932
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:26,280
the line, but I said there's that particular one where we're talking about sort of a standing

933
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:32,960
for like a Chinese culture where you're just like, oh, no, that went too far.

934
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:34,360
Yeah, exactly.

935
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,760
And it's not even like, say something like a book, which, you know, obviously I don't

936
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,280
like this for a bunch of reasons, but the Poppy War, you know, in that we get to go

937
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:49,280
to fantasy China and it gets to play with creating a fantastical sense of China using

938
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,080
a bunch of different ideas.

939
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:57,240
So you have like in that world, their version of China is divided up into 12 districts,

940
00:56:57,240 --> 00:56:59,440
which are based on the different zodiac.

941
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:06,680
Okay, so we've taken an aspect of Chinese culture, we've made it a part of the setting.

942
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:12,120
In this one, it's much more surface level, you know, the dress is similar, you can tell

943
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:20,000
that he's taking inspiration from depictions of opium dens and something like, say, the

944
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,560
Nick or to go back to it again, Deadwood, where it's like, okay, we're going to have

945
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:32,080
like a Chinese ghetto, it's involved in crime, and they have these familiar elements in it.

946
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:38,840
And some of those elements are based on actual like disgusting racism from 19th century and

947
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:44,200
early 20th century America, and really shouldn't be repeated in 2011.

948
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:52,320
This is a lack of deafness in the author side, but I think I don't even know, I don't want

949
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,040
to really defend it.

950
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:55,040
That's how it's only comes across.

951
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,480
It's like, oh, how could you?

952
00:57:58,480 --> 00:57:59,760
But we do move on.

953
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,120
And I don't think it's like a statement piece.

954
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,920
I accidentally ran into a quote I hate.

955
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:10,040
This is about a flashback to a coming war.

956
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:16,400
This genuine is the one moment I'm like, Daniel Polanski, what are your politics exactly?

957
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:21,880
As for me, well, spending your childhood fighting the rats for fresh trash doesn't do much to

958
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:28,360
inculcate, there's one of those $10 words, inculcate the middle class virtues of nationalism

959
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:33,120
and xenophobia that make you leap at the thought of killing people you've never seen.

960
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:40,280
Yes, of course, the famed middle class value of nationalism that definitely never has an

961
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:42,480
impact on lower class people.

962
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:47,600
Do you know what, Jody, sometimes when you rewiff into books like this, I then end up

963
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,680
going, gosh, do I need to feel bad for liking this?

964
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:51,680
I don't.

965
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:56,920
Listen, that line is so insane out of pocket.

966
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:02,440
And I'm not like running, I'm not running defense for the middle class here.

967
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:07,040
You know, Trump is just, at the time of recording this, we're like seven days into the second

968
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:08,420
Trump term.

969
00:59:08,420 --> 00:59:13,400
It's not just one group of people who's voting for him, you know?

970
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,720
However, like this is just a crazy line.

971
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:23,240
Like what planet are you living on where you're like, you can just foist the idea, you're

972
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:27,880
writing a book where everyone in it except for the ultra wealthy is a poor person and

973
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:29,600
all of them are bigots.

974
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:30,920
Why would you write this line?

975
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:35,440
I was going to say, I don't think it lines up with the second book really looks into

976
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:39,920
this concept of like the war veterans and war veterans associations.

977
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,720
And I don't think it really lines up to the politics as portrayed there.

978
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:43,720
Oh boy, okay.

979
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:44,720
Hi, we've gone on video track.

980
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:46,920
There was a point I wanted to make.

981
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:50,800
Jody, okay, so at the end of this book, you have that situation with a war drop.

982
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,640
Yes, I'm going all the way back to that moment.

983
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,040
And yeah, it seems really interesting.

984
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:59,520
Can I tell you something that I really want to get off my chest, which does bother me?

985
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,480
Um, and I think I need to tell you now.

986
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:03,720
All right.

987
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,920
The plague isn't relevant to the next two books.

988
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:07,920
No.

989
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:08,920
Yeah.

990
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:09,920
What?

991
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:10,920
Duncan, that's ridiculous.

992
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:12,520
No, that can't be the case.

993
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,520
That's because that's the only thing.

994
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,400
That's the only thing that makes me think.

995
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:23,160
Yeah, I got to see how the next book shakes out because the characters made this pivotal

996
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:30,280
decision to save one life to potentially risk the thousands and thousands of people who

997
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:31,280
died from the plague.

998
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,200
You're kidding me that the plague isn't coming back.

999
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:35,200
Nope.

1000
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,640
Duncan, I, uh, that's.

1001
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:38,720
Okay.

1002
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,960
So this is now a three out of 10, which is not fair.

1003
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,160
Obviously I'm joking there because you have to, you should judge a book.

1004
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,760
If you haven't read the next book to not know that it goes downhill.

1005
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,840
I can't then judge it worse, but that's ridiculous.

1006
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:53,840
That's insane.

1007
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,480
It is an incredible thing.

1008
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,840
I picked up the next book very quickly.

1009
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:02,680
It's called Tomorrow the Killing and I got into it and I was like, oh, oh, the plague

1010
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,160
isn't the focus off the bat.

1011
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,520
It's this other mystery to do with like war veteran associations.

1012
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:08,520
Okay, fair.

1013
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,660
Maybe it's a slow burn.

1014
01:01:10,660 --> 01:01:14,880
Maybe this is like a, like a bit of a wheelspin hook of the plague's building in the background

1015
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,840
and it's going to explode onto the scene in the third book.

1016
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,640
Also, not the case at all.

1017
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:26,080
It is never a threat to the city.

1018
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,600
That's that's genuinely baffling.

1019
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,760
I I'm I'm I'm just flummoxed.

1020
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:37,440
I'm truly I can't believe you've told me this because I think it's worth noting.

1021
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:41,040
And so I do tell, I want to tell people because I said, I like this book.

1022
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,360
I think it does a lot, right?

1023
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:48,160
It has a lot of fun with what it's doing, but this is one thing with the whole series

1024
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:53,400
where this whole book, what matters in this first book doesn't seem to matter of the trilogy.

1025
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,040
And I do think this is worth these highland people.

1026
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:02,200
This trilogy of Lowtown really feels to me like very three distinct stories other than

1027
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:07,720
Warden's relationship with Wren that definitely developed over a whole arc.

1028
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:12,080
It's very three kind of distinct mystery events.

1029
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,000
And I'm not going to read in this first book again.

1030
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,600
I was once again going, wait, did I just miss it in the second book?

1031
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:21,160
Did I just miss the plague subplot?

1032
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:25,880
And I really can't believe when I read this book how much it definitively sets that up

1033
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:30,560
as like this is what we're all about and then doesn't deliver on it.

1034
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:33,640
And you're right, we shouldn't criticize a book for the sins of the sequel.

1035
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,720
Otherwise, Children of Blood and Bone, I tell you now, would be getting slated.

1036
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:45,600
Yeah, well, I mean, it would definitely factor into my recommendation because I was going

1037
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:49,240
to end this episode by saying the one thing that makes me want to read next is it would

1038
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:54,400
be interesting to see how the impact of a plague would impact the story.

1039
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,160
But if that's not going to happen, I really lost a lot of faith in what this next book

1040
01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:59,640
even should be about.

1041
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:04,680
I'm not necessarily opposed to it just being three completely separate mysteries, though.

1042
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,480
That's what's great about detective stories.

1043
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:11,320
That's what's great about Sherlock Holmes and Columbo is that you tune into any adventure.

1044
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,880
You don't need to have read the previous one because it's about this mystery.

1045
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:20,800
I would hope that the next story would actually just be about a mystery, though.

1046
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,280
That's like you've set the playing cards up in this one.

1047
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,480
Just have your fun in the next book.

1048
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,280
Just have it be a really solid mystery.

1049
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,280
And that's where I need to actually come out.

1050
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:37,520
I've read this whole trilogy and I do think this first book for people picking this up

1051
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,600
is the best one of the trilogy.

1052
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,240
So to someone like you, Geordie, I think I have to be very honest.

1053
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:46,040
I'm like, if you did not enjoy this book, you don't need to go further.

1054
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:47,040
This is representative.

1055
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,640
I like the second book, by the way.

1056
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:51,660
It goes a lot into the background.

1057
01:03:51,660 --> 01:03:59,120
We get a lot more war flashbacks with Warden and Adolphus and really expands on their friendship,

1058
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,360
to the point of which actually when I was reading this book, there's so many facets

1059
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:05,880
of their friendship which I was surprised aren't in this book.

1060
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,040
And I've seen they must all be introduced in the sequel.

1061
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:12,320
I did like Adolphus and Adeline, so yeah, that's good.

1062
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:13,960
I won't be reading that book.

1063
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,160
I'm not interested in hearing more about his experiences at war.

1064
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:21,440
I would probably just prefer to read a book that's about that instead of a book where

1065
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,240
they're constantly looking back at the past.

1066
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:30,320
So yeah, to be honest, if it's about corrupt veterans associations, just fucking read Jack

1067
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:31,320
Ryan.

1068
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,480
All right, Duncan, I've got time for one more complaint.

1069
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:39,520
Lay it upon me and then I'll mount my final defense.

1070
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,640
Before I do that, to be nice, I will read a quote which I found funny and I laughed

1071
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:44,640
at.

1072
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:46,280
You have any proof?

1073
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:50,760
None whatsoever, but if you get his name and residence, you'll have a find a memento he

1074
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:51,760
kept.

1075
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:52,960
Maybe a piece of clothing.

1076
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:54,960
You'll probably even find a few of them.

1077
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,520
You don't even know his name?

1078
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,480
I don't have time for these trivialities, Crispin.

1079
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,120
I work in the private sector now.

1080
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:01,600
I thought it was a good line.

1081
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,160
I laughed at that.

1082
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:04,160
It's fun.

1083
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:09,000
I have quite a few fun moments and interactions throughout this book.

1084
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,840
Yeah, I saw your highlights on Gendel.

1085
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:13,840
One final complaint.

1086
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:15,880
The fight scenes were shit.

1087
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:22,440
I would also have to agree these are not particularly interesting things of combat.

1088
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:26,040
There's not a lot of what I read in combat scene is a lot of thinking, a lot of reaction,

1089
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:31,140
a lot of I'll do this, you do that, or, you know, treating it more like a puzzle and an

1090
01:05:31,140 --> 01:05:35,040
interesting application of the environment and our characters abilities.

1091
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:36,040
Yeah.

1092
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:42,040
A lot of the fight scene this I find tend to go down to one guy either gets the jump

1093
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:46,720
or wails on one bloke and then one thing will happen and that other bloke normally warden

1094
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,480
stands back up and then wails on the other bloke.

1095
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,320
Yeah, for sure.

1096
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:57,040
At the first time it shows up, the like the the first fight scene is just the Hey, did

1097
01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:02,320
you know my cool badass hero can beat people up and I'm like, uh huh, cool.

1098
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,600
I haven't seen that before.

1099
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:10,760
Just beats up some drug dealers who were on his turf because you know, it's whatever.

1100
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:11,760
Just cringe.

1101
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:18,000
But then the next and just frankly the most offensive one of all is this scene where he's

1102
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:25,620
being chased across various rooftops by by like dudes of swords and this scene actually

1103
01:06:25,620 --> 01:06:26,620
starts.

1104
01:06:26,620 --> 01:06:28,920
I like the first exchanges.

1105
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:34,880
I like the scene where he like has to jump through a window and after the dudes follow

1106
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,320
him he's able to sort of pounce on them.

1107
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:43,140
That all works pretty well until a dude has to like fight him one on one and like there's

1108
01:06:43,140 --> 01:06:44,280
no trickery here.

1109
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:50,600
You just got to fight it out and at this point it's just so embarrassing.

1110
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:55,480
You know, the first thing that he does is when he draws his sword, he says I drew my

1111
01:06:55,480 --> 01:07:00,880
sword and I held it backhanded and I just was like, don't do that.

1112
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:02,120
That's stupid.

1113
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:07,800
That's a thing you know you see in like video games and schlocky fantasy movies where people

1114
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:13,120
hold swords the wrong way around and you're like that doesn't work.

1115
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,200
You're just it's stupid.

1116
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:21,460
It's cringy and then there's a bit where he he like he wins in this fight because he slips

1117
01:07:21,460 --> 01:07:26,820
his hand into his pocket and pulls out knuckle dusters and in an exchange he punches the

1118
01:07:26,820 --> 01:07:31,000
other guy and I think to myself like why didn't you just punch him normally?

1119
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,760
You didn't need knuckle dusters to do that.

1120
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,720
If you punched him in the face then he probably would have fallen over just like he did then

1121
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,720
except you wouldn't have broken your hand because knuckle dusters are really bad for

1122
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:42,720
you.

1123
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:48,600
The knuckle dusters I let slide personally but the backhand sword every time I see that

1124
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:53,320
I'm lich I have to like hold my own arm out and go wouldn't it be better if I could point

1125
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:57,160
it towards the then.

1126
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:58,160
I just don't.

1127
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:03,000
Yeah exactly it's even a bit like so that the flash of the blade was against my arm

1128
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:07,900
like that's great man except now your knuckles are literally pointing at your enemy and he's

1129
01:08:07,900 --> 01:08:10,240
just gonna chop your hand off.

1130
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:16,240
It's like if you wanted to be nice to a person and not use the sword it also means that any

1131
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:24,520
blade work though has to happen close to your body instead of far away.

1132
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:30,000
And the dude had a longer sword as well he was using a saber and there's a bit even where

1133
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:34,640
he says like and then he chopped him with a two-handed swing I'm like a saber's two-handed

1134
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:36,760
I don't think they are why is he putting a second hand?

1135
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,520
He's grabbing it round his his original hand.

1136
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:44,920
The most offensive part is the last fight you know he has to fight potentially the best

1137
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:51,640
swordsman in the world and his genius strategy for this is he puts a bomb on the other side

1138
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:57,080
of the wall and he explodes both of them.

1139
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:01,560
It is a high risk high reward strategy.

1140
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:06,960
It's incredible he set up two bombs he's like in case the first one doesn't do a trick

1141
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,480
I put a second bomb underneath.

1142
01:09:09,480 --> 01:09:14,920
Motherfucker if you thought you could end this with a bomb why did you put yourself

1143
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:22,360
in the same room as him just blow up the room and then walk in.

1144
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:28,800
Sorry yes that hadn't occurred to me or the very least I get the impression it's the

1145
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:34,240
it's the wall that's like to the side of both of them not even the wall behind him.

1146
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:38,680
No exactly the literally thing is he says like obviously I was knocked over too but

1147
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:39,680
I'd been expecting it.

1148
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,680
Oh but that's how it works.

1149
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:43,680
Drop and roll.

1150
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:49,360
It's so good I also one more one more trivial thing which is just such a nitpick oh two

1151
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:54,920
more nitpicks um one nitpick is that in that same fight scene when he goes for him he's

1152
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:58,480
he says I try to rabbit punch him in the throat.

1153
01:09:58,480 --> 01:10:00,840
Duncan do you know what a rabbit punch means?

1154
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:01,840
Not clear.

1155
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:06,080
A rabbit punch is a punch to the back of the neck you cannot rabbit punch someone in the

1156
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,280
throat that's just a punch.

1157
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:16,840
Okay one more one more there's a bit in the story at one point one more one more there's

1158
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:24,680
a bit of a story at one point where he describes a character as having um uh red shot pupils.

1159
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:26,680
Red shot pupils?

1160
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:27,680
Yes.

1161
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:30,480
Does he need to see a doctor I think it's blind.

1162
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:35,560
Yeah you can't have red shot pupils a pupil is like the black bit in the middle of your

1163
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:41,560
eye you have red shot sclerar the stuff the white bits around the iris and pupil.

1164
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,840
You also just say red shot eyes like we know what you mean.

1165
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:50,000
Yes exactly exactly and this is where you come down to him having to have just one step

1166
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:55,200
above in this extra special flowery language because any ordinary person would totally

1167
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:57,000
find saying this.

1168
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,720
Genuinely.

1169
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:05,400
So are we saying this is one step above the eye of our god?

1170
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:13,120
And tears leaked from his eyeballs and he used the what was it like the pelvis bone

1171
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:17,920
of a rat to punch a guy with and you know and we had the same argument surely because

1172
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:21,040
you're punching without the bone makes any difference.

1173
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:26,640
True oh you're right it is one step above the eye of argon.

1174
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:31,880
Okay I need to um respond to a lot of job G's comments so earlier on I made a comment

1175
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:38,440
about how maybe the character of warden has a certain attitude it's not a sliminess it's

1176
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:42,760
not what cringe what he thinks is cool and I said it quite demurringly talking about

1177
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:46,760
you know that would be a appeal to like a a teenager 14 year old teenager that's what

1178
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:48,520
they think is cool.

1179
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:54,320
Do I really to be honest the only real last offence I have with this is to just admit

1180
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:59,800
something and that's that the 14 year old within me just really enjoyed all of that

1181
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:00,800
crap.

1182
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:08,080
I understand I do deeply I do you know there's a place in the world for trashy entertainment.

1183
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:13,480
And I know you were laughing and like the fight scene she was right it's so stupid and

1184
01:12:13,480 --> 01:12:18,680
when he did the sword backhand I was there like oh that's so stupid and then he's like

1185
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,560
yeah but the visual is kind of fun isn't it.

1186
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:27,240
I'll tie it back into something that works you know who else does annoying stupid backhand

1187
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:33,400
sword stuff the Witcher the Witcher TV show Geralt does that all the time.

1188
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:39,120
Did I get annoyed when he did it there yes did it look kind of cool yes yes it did look

1189
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:40,120
kind of cool.

1190
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:48,680
I would say there's another book which obviously speaks to a very similar vibe of a noir fantasy

1191
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:53,560
and obviously something that we haven't mentioned throughout this entire episode and that's

1192
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:54,560
the Dresden Files.

1193
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,000
Well there's a reason for that Duncan I haven't read one of them.

1194
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:06,000
I have read one of them to be fair only one but I know that book has a massive fan base

1195
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:14,000
and you read the early ones the main character is despicable in the sense that he is a pretty

1196
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:18,200
big misogynist and like that's a massive detracting point but I have heard he gets bad for other

1197
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:23,520
books and you know it has the same level of cringe you're trying to be cool or an off

1198
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:26,440
and a similar argument I would say where it's like you know the author's trying to write

1199
01:13:26,440 --> 01:13:32,120
a character that's misogynistic and you know through a lack of finesse comes off a bit

1200
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:36,240
worse overall and I think it's the same way of how Daniel Polanski is dealing with some

1201
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:42,360
of his social issues in this book series and I'm not saying it's good or that you need

1202
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:47,840
to hold it up as fine literature but I know there is other people out there that probably

1203
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:55,880
like similar schlock as I do and it just speaks to just enough fun I like the fact that Polanski

1204
01:13:55,880 --> 01:14:01,440
is a cocky shithead because you're right there's a bit of me that does go along on that power

1205
01:14:01,440 --> 01:14:07,320
of fantasy and go yeah cool let's outsmart all of them and but then I do like the fact

1206
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:11,280
that he has those sort of self-destructive moments when he goes back to Adolphus as well

1207
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:13,760
I think that builds really nicely.

1208
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:19,360
In this book Jordy I like the bits I always liked I refelt the disappointment over the

1209
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:26,080
ending and knowing it does not go anywhere but ultimately the execution and the worldbuilding

1210
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:30,200
this is something that goes all the way back to I think we spoke about malice ages ago

1211
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:35,640
and I said how I never felt the crackling of the fire or that there was never a scene

1212
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:40,960
where they all sit down and eat dinner that I really you know could taste the food.

1213
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:47,280
In Lowtown I really feel like I could sense the environment I have such a strong idea

1214
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:52,160
in this book like when they're in the tavern when he's drinking his bitter beer when he

1215
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:58,120
has like hard you know eggs in the morning and the yolk isn't very runny and he goes

1216
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:04,240
out on the street and the scents and the smells and the the feel of this city I really got

1217
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:08,000
that after this book and I really drank that in.

1218
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:14,400
I hear you man I do I really do and I think I felt some of that too it's just that I you

1219
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:20,080
know Duncan I haven't done this for a while but for a good period of time when work was

1220
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:25,920
done and I was really tired and I couldn't be bothered to go to the gym I would sit down

1221
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:32,280
on the sofa and I would watch House and what works about House is that it has had this

1222
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:40,440
smart but cruel very sardonic main character he's another like cynical take on Sherlock

1223
01:15:40,440 --> 01:15:46,160
Holmes and you watch him sort of be a tool and be pretty insufferable to his co-workers

1224
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,400
throughout the whole of the first season.

1225
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:53,960
That's what this book reminded me of because you have this guy being smarter than everyone

1226
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:58,320
else around him and none of them can like talk smack back to him because he's just too

1227
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:05,040
clever what it doesn't remind me of is like season two and three of House because in season

1228
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:09,360
two and three of House the other characters have sort of wised up to him and they are

1229
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:15,320
shit talking him back and it's so much more entertaining when you get to have the genius

1230
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:21,600
character actually have competition that he has to prove that he's so smart and that his

1231
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:28,280
quips are just on point you actually have to have him fight to win and not just be automatically

1232
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:34,760
correct this book wasn't there it wasn't at the point where I felt like the characters

1233
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:41,400
cleverness was earned it never felt like he had actual competition the only times he got

1234
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:46,960
to be wrongs when he was dramatically wrong when the story is set up for him to to just

1235
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:51,960
not get it right take for example the bit where he goes to ask someone for help and

1236
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:57,080
he thinks so little of this guy's capability that he just rules out the possibility that

1237
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:01,360
this dude could ever get him the information he's after and that comes back to bite him

1238
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:06,960
in the ass because that dude actually does provide him information that he needs and

1239
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:12,240
he ignores it because he thinks that he doesn't require his help that was good that was one

1240
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:17,160
of the better scenes in the book strong dramatic irony this book could have been more like

1241
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:23,440
that and if it had I wouldn't be rating this as a five out of ten well I think that's a

1242
01:17:23,440 --> 01:17:27,760
nice point to end on I don't think I have anything else to add and I like that you do

1243
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:32,680
highlight that those moments that do hint at that kind of greater depth this book isn't

1244
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:38,120
completely bereft of them there just aren't many I'll say into the sentence there just

1245
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:45,600
aren't many well Jordy I think I haven't I said no more to add when it comes to recommendations

1246
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:49,880
I think it's pretty clear from my standpoint that the type of person who would like this

1247
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:56,200
book is someone who already likes books like this if you are someone who has read like

1248
01:17:56,200 --> 01:18:02,080
the Dresden Files this is a golden recommendation and generally if you're someone that feels

1249
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:09,920
like they can buy into a bit more of the cringe and the stereotypicalness of the sort of noir

1250
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:16,760
detective story and likes the sound of having that put in this sort of 18th century New

1251
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:23,280
York that's London world go for it I certainly think you'll get enough good out of this

1252
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:29,160
that you will enjoy it if you're already sort of prepped and interested on a concept

1253
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:35,240
level and like a premise level except you should just read this first book and not accept

1254
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:39,120
you should probably just read this first book it's not serious no I would say listen read

1255
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:45,560
this I recommend to everyone who is in that category read this first book be aware the

1256
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:50,640
sequels do not go with this first book for this set up and in general I would make ask

1257
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:54,720
you maybe to sit down again and ask yourself how much you really enjoyed this first book

1258
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:57,920
before pushing on to the sequels I think if you're if you're at that five hour ten

1259
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:02,800
stage you probably might want to take a step back because I do think the sequels kind of

1260
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:07,120
drop a point we don't normally do points we've talked about them a lot this episode

1261
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:14,560
the sequels do drop like a level for me there's this there are only three ratings for me one

1262
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:19,880
out of ten five out of ten and nine point five out of ten those are the only times I

1263
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:24,360
give scores that's why we do recommendations I think that means so much more than a score

1264
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:31,360
can ever sum up so Jordy what's your recommendation do if you do don't read this book it'll waste

1265
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:36,880
your time I feel heartily disagree so Jordy talking about a book maybe that won't waste

1266
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:44,840
our time this was my pick I'm glad you read it what are you going to answer with where

1267
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:51,240
are you taking us next Duncan we start off this year with a dark brooding take on fairy

1268
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:58,520
tales we followed it up with a dark brooding take on an urban fantasy by turning it into

1269
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:05,480
a noir detective story maybe it's time as we get as the days are getting brighter that

1270
01:20:05,480 --> 01:20:12,640
we we start up with a more light-hearted chipper bright story what do you think oh definitely

1271
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:18,760
time for that is that I hear the flutter is Tay Pratchett on the cards are we are we going

1272
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:26,320
full kind of comedy no it's February I hate February it's my least favorite month we're

1273
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:39,960
reading the black company by Glenn sorry I wasn't expecting that set up yes the black

1274
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:49,880
company another series that I have read through and oh my goodness Jordy there is grim dark

1275
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:56,840
and there's the black company the all-father of the genre well I cannot wait yeah yeah

1276
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:01,800
I'm excited I'm really excited to see where this goes because everyone says you know as

1277
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:07,960
they say grandfather of grim dark yeah warhammer 40k wouldn't exist about this I'm excited

1278
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:12,640
I think this is gonna be a dark but fun time that's what I'm expecting and I can promise

1279
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:20,800
you you're gonna get half of that without a doubt so thank you everyone for listening

1280
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:25,720
if you have read the straight to razor cure or have opinions on it and you want to share

1281
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:31,680
if you're on my side or Jordy's or have a third way is yours let us know the best place

1282
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:36,200
as always is our Instagram at this fancy podcast on on Instagram another great place to contact

1283
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:41,160
us is our Gmail is the fantasy podcast at gmail.com love to hear from everyone it really

1284
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,920
makes my day even when people just mess with you like hi I just enjoyed that most recent

1285
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:49,920
episode I share with Jordy it makes both our days it just puts a smile on our faces so

1286
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:55,720
please do it's your guys out it's gonna be a great place to see other additional tips

1287
01:21:55,720 --> 01:22:01,600
and information and the latest episodes when they are released so do that there also please

1288
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:05,280
I need to take a breath there's a lot it's a long this sort of standard you gotta you

1289
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:12,400
gotta get through all also please leave a review on your podcast listening profile of

1290
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:18,280
choice it's that's the easiest option you just have to hit five stars on Spotify and

1291
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:22,680
it makes us also very happy and maybe more people get to then listen to us so you really

1292
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:26,800
you're just sharing the joy with other people it's charity it's a charity yeah it's basically

1293
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:32,080
charity so how about that yeah it'd be amazing I look forward to seeing you again Duncan in

1294
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:37,320
February to talk about the black company as always I've been your host Duncan Nicol and

1295
01:22:37,320 --> 01:23:04,960
I've been your host Jordy Bailey till next time till next time bye bye