Hey everyone, before we get started with this episode, I realize that normally we bring this up at the start, but we just forgot to say it, so I'm putting it at the very beginning.
Because we are discussing Berserk, this is an episode full of trigger warnings, especially regarding to sexual violence. Please bear that in mind as we go forward. Enjoy listening.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Is This Just Fantasy, the podcast where every other week two nerds get together to rate, read and review a fantasy novel/manga. I'm your host, Geordie Bailey.
And I'm the an out of place Yoda reference, Duncan Nichol.
Duncan, we're finally back in our now quite firmly cemented annual tradition as the spookiest months of the year approach we are reading Berserk.
That we are the dark fantasy manga that we have fallen in love with. We have done nothing but praise over four episodes, two a year. Not quite going that hard this year, but we have loved this.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Berserk, as everyone knows, has listened to the podcast before, and if you haven't listened to our previous episodes, please do. You can feel my love and passion for them come through. They are some of my favourite stories. Forward slash periods. No other context needed.
And it delights me to be able to share them with Duncan, who's experiencing them for the first time.
That's right. And a little bit of a pretext here. I do read this manga, like quite spread out over the year. So each year we sort of tackled a different arc in the continuous manga story, which can be many, many chapters at a time.
So I'll be honest with you, it's been a while since I started this, but I have only just finished what we're covering today. And I think it's worth actually explaining what section of Berserk are we covering today?
Yes, Duncan, you used the word arc, and arc is a very flexible term when it comes to, especially in manga. Like, the arc is a useful term. We describe stuff like Fishman Island arc in One Piece.
Arc in Berserk is like a really broad section of a manga. So what we're reading today is the first part of the Falcon of the Millennium Arc brackets Holy Evil War chapter.
But we're not doing the whole chapter, because that's a really substantial period of a chapter. That's like from Conviction until Guts gets on a boat, which is a huge section.
So instead, we're doing what I call the Troll Arc. We're doing the bit where the trolls are.
For those who may be reading along and have the physical volumes, it's about volume 22 to just the starting bit of volume 27, picking up where we left off last year.
And if like me, you're reading the big deluxe versions, it's volumes 8 and 9.
Well, Geordie, before we jump into Berserk then, gotta ask, have you been reading anything else?
I'm afraid, Duncan, that I have not. I've not been reading anything else. I've been really busy. I'm only reading books for the podcast at the moment.
Fair enough, fair enough. We've picked some chonkers over the recent months, so good on you, mate, keeping up the pace.
And as for yourself, Duncan?
Well, Geordie, as always, I have read a little bit of Conan the Barbarian short fiction. How could I not?
I read a new one from after we did our Conan inspired a fan fiction empire episode, maybe one of my favourites.
I'm so proud of the work there. I picked up the heroic legend series, which is a series of short stories being published only in Kindle
by a variety of different sword and sorcery authors. And I've read two already, Black Starlight by John C. Hocking, possibly the very best.
I highly recommend it. It's just after his Emerald Lotus novel and one called Shadow of Vengeance, which is a direct sequel to the Robert E. Howard story.
The Devil in Iron, there we go. But I wanted another one and not all of them being that well reviewed, actually.
I'm not going to lie, this series has been getting quite a bit of a harsh reception even amongst the fandom.
But I tried this one out. It's called Terrors from the Abyss. It's meant to be this sort of Cthulhu inspired Shadow Over Innsmouth story
set during the time that Conan is kind of a pirate. It starts with the character Belit from the story Queen of the Black Coast.
It's written by Henry Herz and quite interesting this author. At the back of it, it's like about the author and it says his other works.
They're all like children's stories. And I mean like three to five year olds children's stories.
Interesting. So you don't think this was an adapted script from one of his other projects?
I definitely don't think that was the case. I can only assume that this man had a passion and was like, I want to write a Conan story, please.
So bearing that in mind, I thought this was a little disappointing. I wouldn't recommend this. Dirty not compared to the other ones.
This guy, he clearly knows what makes a good Conan story. The incident, the horrors, the action.
But he just doesn't have quite his prose just aren't at the level. His descriptions just I don't think were strong enough to set a vibe and like an atmosphere throughout this story.
And it was really weird to read it and be like, this isn't wrong. You're just not that sounds really mean. You're just not doing the right thing well enough to land.
Duncan, how do you feel about like a character like Conan from a pretty the action side of pulpy, you know, pulpy novellas being combined with a Shadow Over Innsmouth?
Do you think it matches? Do you think it goes together like peanut butter and jelly? I mean, peanut butter and chocolate? I don't care. I don't eat peanut butter.
You're missing out. I think it can in the sense that what Conan does as a character, particularly in the original stories, I'm thinking things like The Slithering Shadow is that he take Robert E. Howard
and he would take these sort of Cthulhu-idea creatures, the ones that would send a H.P. Lovecraft protagonist into a fit of madness and a faint.
And you get Conan just go, I stab it. And if it bleeds, I kill it. And that can be quite fun.
He even like makes deliberate references to like Tsthogua and like the Pnakotic manuscripts. Like it's very deliberately like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. My pen pal H.P. Lovecraft. I'm involved in his stuff too.
Yeah. And I think it's brilliant to have that kind of other end of the spectrum. I think it's really fun when you take something that's normally set up to be horrifying and have a protagonist blast for it.
Or at least just be like... It's really nice also of Howard to, you know, to broadcast the works of less talented writers like Lovecraft.
I mean, we've only read one Lovecraft book at this point on this podcast, and I'm not going to lie. The bar was low. I expected someone with his reputation to maybe do a bit better, but maybe we picked the wrong story, Geordie. Maybe it was on us.
Maybe. At the Mountains of Madness at some point in the future. Duncan, how would you feel knowing that, you know, the Conan merging with a Shadow Over Innsmouth wasn't that successful? How would you feel about Berserk doing that?
I mean, Guts can be very Conan-like. I don't know. I need to stop making Conan my only reference point. I think people get the impression it's my whole personality.
It's appropriate! He's a big man with a big sword!
He is! He's a big guy with a big sword, and I think it's really fun to see... You talk about Shadow Over Innsmouth, I assume you mean something with like fish people or whatever, but like all of what Guts does, like the eclipse is, and the God's Hand is Cthulhu! They're the old ones, the all-powerful beings that see humanity as ants.
And it's really great to have a protagonist that just picks up his sword and goes, I don't care. I'm going to fight anyway.
With that in mind, Duncan, that's definitely relevant to us, and we'll get to... We'll get to Guts versus Innsmouth later on in like two years' time, maybe. But in the meantime, Duncan, the troll section.
So yeah, the first part of Holy Evil War will wrap up the rest of Holy Evil War for those who like Berserk later, but there's a lot of good stuff, some bad stuff in this section.
And I'm fascinated to see how Duncan responds to like the really big changes to Berserk at this point. A lot of new characters, and just almost a change in genre at this point. So Duncan, where are we now in Guts' and Casca's journey?
So we pick up after the Conviction arc, where Guts has sort of had his moment where he's decided he's going to protect Casca as his biggest priority. This is the love of his life, and his priority is to protect her during her period where she cannot defend herself.
She has not recovered from the events of the Eclipse, and that's his priority over going after vengeance. And I'm not saying going after vengeance, I mean going after Griffith and taking it out on him.
And what we start off with is a bit of Guts wandering the countryside. He's split from the team that he formed at the end of Conviction, and him and Casca are just trying to get through.
Well, the first thing we see him is a return back to Goto's place, right?
Oh my goodness. Honestly, Geordie, I always like, did that happen in this bit or is that the end of the last one? Yes.
Maybe I should do the catch up since I've read this the most recently.
Take it away before I embarrass myself more.
Okay, so the bit you're thinking of comes directly after this, but Guts returns to Goto's house, the blacksmith, and he meets there Rickert and Erika. Rickert is the former member of the Band of the Hawk, the only other survivor aside from Guts and Casca because he wasn't present for the Eclipse.
And that's important for this scene in particular because Guts has never told Rickert what Griffith did. He's never told him about the betrayal or the slaughter.
All he said is, the Band of the Hawk is wiped out, Griffith's gone, that's it.
Griffith is back, he's back in a physical, human appearing incarnation and Rickert is meeting with him on the Hill of Swords, a place that's meant to commemorate the Band of the Hawk.
And when Guts shows up rushing up the hill to kill Griffith, we have a confrontation between them, the first time they've spoken since, hell, since Guts left the band.
Like, Griffith couldn't even talk to him after the rescue, his tongue was cut out. So Duncan, can you stretch your mind back and talk about this confrontation?
It's kind of, if I remember this correctly, this is the scene, so Guts is about communication.
As all of Berserk is, really!
Guts is like almost unwilling to tell Rickert and Rickert I think you can see genuinely gets frustrated at the sense of like, well, you're not talking to me so how am I meant to know how to react in these situations?
Why are you acting weird? Complete with just explain.
And I think Guts, however, by and large, I do think has been quite fair in the sense that he isn't communicating because he's done a lot of trauma, hasn't he?
I don't feel bad on the character for this.
That's an understatement. I really want Duncan, what I'm really interested in is the conversation between Guts and Griffith and what that means.
Okay, so this one's the harder one to talk about. We get Griffith revealing himself to Guts. Guts obviously goes in for the swing.
And also Rickert gets in the way. There's that kind of angle on it, but Griffith basically chats to Guts almost as if nothing had happened.
He's so off the cuff, he's so relaxed, he's like, oh, you, oh, he's going to swing first. It's like when we first met.
No recognition for the horrors that he's inflicted and is doing. And I suppose the point of this from Griffith's perspective, in a creepy ass way, is that Griffith is basically here to go, do I care?
Can I look at this man and feel anything? He used to really care about Guts.
Yeah, sure did. He was in love with him.
What got him to all this trouble is the fact that he, in a way, put Guts, or at least not his love of Guts, his obsession, his desire to control Guts and control the people in his life above his ultimate dream and goal of ruling a kingdom.
Right. So now he's returned to see, do I have that same weakness? Do I still care about Guts and other people?
And the answer, apparently, is no. He says, yes, I feel nothing. Guts attacks, Zodd interferes, and we have a crazy showdown.
This is probably one of the most dynamic and beautifully choreographed fights in all of Berserk.
I love how much the Zodd is coming into this. Like, in the first Golden Age arc, he almost, I want to say throwaway, but you interact with him, particularly when I first watched the anime.
He's seen like twice. I'm like, is this a character? Is he going to be a major feature? I love that he keeps coming back. I love that this conflict.
I almost love Zodd so much because he does seem like the dark Guts. There's a really strong parallel between them, which I think does actually build a little bit over this, particularly when it comes to their relationship to Griffith.
So love the fight scene. It's great badass.
And two really important things happen in this scene. The first is that after Zodd transforms into his true form and, you know, Guts at this point has been fighting toe to toe with him. Now, once he transforms, he has the edge.
As he charges Guts, he smashes through Godot's mind, this like fairy mind, which was the only safe place that Casca could remain protected from the demons.
And I know it's almost agonizing that they fought so hard to bring her back to this spot.
Exactly. And it's lost in a moment. And the other thing happens. And then we get Boulders. Best page. Yes. Yeah. Duncan, you go ahead.
Guts. So as he smashes through this mine area, rocks fly everywhere and Guts sees Casca and he's like, this is my conviction. I will protect her. So he rushes to her aid. But amongst the rocks, he doesn't manage it. He gets knocked down.
And then as he picks himself up, bleeding, cut on the forehead, blood dripping down by his lost eye, he sees just my favourite page turning to this. It's just like, oh, yes. He sees Casca wrapped in the white cloak of Griffith, who is now holding her.
And who saved her from the rocks. And this is obviously, it's an enraging moment for Guts because it's like, how dare you touch her. But it's so fraught with different emotions because some part of Casca is drawn to Griffith.
She's like got tears in her eyes. She's reaching for him. And even though like her, her like her mark is bleeding and causing her pain. And also Griffith, who apparently feels nothing, has stepped in to save the woman who was once like his chief, his chief comrade.
And so, so what's the situation there? Does he care now? Like, is that what's happening? And the answer to that last one we learn is that because the egg for a new world consumed the demon child corrupted by Griffith of Guts and Casca, because he's consumed the child, he has that child's feelings of protectiveness towards Guts and Casca.
And he has stepped in to save her. So despite the fact that he has purged himself of all human feelings, the only people who he still cares for, in spite of everything, are the two people who he has harmed the most in the world.
I'm just going to be very honest with you, Geordie. As a first-time reader, I did not make all those connections.
That's fair. I am a eighth time reader, and I probably took me a while to really register what was going on there. How do you feel now learning that information?
I both feel I think that's really interesting. I love the idea that it sort of gives me the impression that like the body he was reborn into was like the demon childlike that went into the egg and then it hatched.
I suppose a little bit me is kind of disappointed because I did actually quite like the idea that Griffith is really just calling bullshit that deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, very deep down in his own very twisted way.
He doesn't want to kill or for Casca and Guts to die. Even if it makes you feel better, Duncan, this is my interpretation.
Well, that was exactly. So my interpretation reading this for the first time was the fact that he doesn't want them to die.
Not the fact that he kind of cares for them. But I think in a weird way, Griffith has always had issues about validation. He needs praise.
And I think in my interpretation, well, maybe he sees that like he still wants Guts and Casca to see him achieve.
Like he needs their external validation on what he's doing, both good and evil.
Hmm. Let's get on to Griffith's need for validation in a moment.
Griffith says, OK, I've discovered everything I needed to know. I'm going to bounce. Bye bye.
And he flies away with Zodd, leaving Guts alone, like who spent all this time striving, looking for Guts, for Griffith, all over the place in a mad two-year hunt.
He's finally found him and he slipped away just like that. And now he has to war with two things.
He went through all of that, all the Conviction Arc to save Casca, to keep her safe.
The one place that was safe is gone. And he wants to kill Griffith. He does. Deep down, he still wants to do it.
Now, I was going to say that he definitely for the well-being of the entirety of the world should still kill him.
Like Griffith is not a positive force.
Duncan, I'm in your camp. This is a controversial opinion with some lunatics on the Internet.
But I want Guts to rip Griffith's head clean off his shoulders.
The fact that there are people who don't think that should happen?
Unless you're arguing that, like, no, for Guts to truly heal, he just needs to move on.
I mean, that is true. And I'm in that camp as well. I just want Guts to somehow heal and do all of the dark deeds that make him need to heal.
You know, can't we do both? Can't I, you know, heal from my wounds whilst also like making more of them?
I think you can't heal from your wounds in this particular...
Joe Abercrombie, excellent author, second book in the First Lord Trilogy. What is it called?
Um, Until They're Hanged?
To complete the full sentence, you should always forgive your enemies, but not before they are hanged.
Guts should move on from Griffith. I just think Griffith should be dead first, like actually proper human dead.
And then he can move on and heal.
Okay. So we'll address that in like, I don't know, four years time when we catch up to where the series is in the present day.
In the meantime, however, what's their next move? Where do they go?
They can't stay here, it's not safe. But luckily, good old Puck, I'm coming round to the guy, says,
I know a safe place, follow me off to our fairy lands of safety, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, go to Puck's home, an island across the sea.
Um, Duncan, that is Puck's last hurrah. That's the greatest contribution he's made to the series.
And it will be forever. That's it, he's done.
That pains me so much, as the intro of this episode refers, I have so much to say about Puck and his art,
but let's try and lay out the core conflict because we're not even there yet.
Right.
There's a few key events on the road that I want to just hit.
Now, Duncan, we want to talk about the Troll arc, we want to talk about the characters we've met in Conviction coming back,
we want to talk about the introduction of new characters.
But before we do that, the story kind of actually gets sidetracked. We leave Guts for a bit.
We do. A very interesting decision is to follow Griffith.
As established in the Conviction Arc, the thing which everyone else in the world, except for Guts, is really focused on
is that the Empire of Kushan is invading.
They've arrived in Midland, or at least the continent that Midland is on,
and they are invading in force and they seem to be pretty much unstoppable.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to lie, Geordie. Didn't really hit my radar very much.
I'm not even really sure about the layout of this world,
because I'm not even sure who Midland were fighting in the Golden Age and what that kingdom is doing anymore.
Midland were fighting the Tudors.
Oh, Henry is a rough one, I'm not going to lie. Okay, but...
Yeah, interestingly, but it never felt like it was like a sea in between them, did it?
It always felt like it was more of a land battle.
So I guess maybe the Tudors were coming out of like Calais or something.
I'm sorry, I don't know. Is the map of Berserk our world?
I'm not going to answer that question, but I will say that that is something that will be explored later down the line.
I mean, there is a Pope, to be fair.
Yes, so this is a foreign army that's invading and Griffith has set up that he is...
Griffith has gone full back into White Knighting.
He is looking to be the people's hero.
He is the traditional hero that all the common folk can look up to.
And he's got a cool new gang.
I know, the Band of the Hawk 2.0, made up of all the demon blokes, but in like fancy knight armour.
It's really quite awesome.
Interesting. Duncan, I really want to hear what you have to say about this because I have my personal feelings about this section.
And I know that my feelings about it are not always in concert with other fans of Berserk.
I want to know, how do you feel about these sections of the book where you see Griffith defeating the Kushans and you're meeting with his demon human army?
So I'm going to say threefold.
Firstly, I love seeing Griffith back as this character of Griffith's.
Not that stark, shadowy, distant Femto character that he was in the Black Swordsman and the Conviction arcs because that's not as interesting.
Griffith is so awesome because of who he is when he's having a direct hand in politics.
When he's putting on his fake face, his I'm a nice human face, even when he was actually human, that was what made him so engaging as a villain.
Because he was so good at faking it. You really got to give up that kind of psychopathic, I'm not actually connected, but I'm going to mislead you.
So that's great. I absolutely love that.
As for the Band of the Hawk 2.0, I think it's OK.
I'm a little worried that I'm just being introduced similar to in the Conviction arc.
I mentioned that I had a bit of an issue with the main villain of that arc because I just felt like you're a sub boss.
You're not the main boss. You're just the level boss. You're not really the main villain for Guts.
And I have a little bit of that vibe with these guys. I'm like, Zodd, fair enough, has been built out as enough of a separate character and a villain that I want him and Guts to have a showdown.
I think there's a lot of common standing between them that I'd love to see kind of play out.
But the rest of them, and I don't know if this is going to be the case, I'm just speculating.
I worry that they're just henchmen for Guts to cut through to fill out chapters a bit.
Interesting. OK. They don't have enough characters to themselves.
The third bit, the third bit, though, before I hand it back over to you.
God, I love how creepy Griffith is.
This is a bit about how he's creepy because he does obviously his fakeness.
But there's this really cool bit in this where it's like he's like guiding the lost souls.
And everyone's like, oh, look, it's so beautiful.
And I love it because I work it out. I know this is something like Cthulhu horror.
He's like capturing them or something and sending them to some dark underworld.
And I love how everyone's like, oh, look at the beautiful souls.
Oh, the souls of my brother. He is finally free.
And it's like, you don't know what he's doing.
Yeah. And he doesn't look happy. If you look at that image of a ghost, it's not like he's like, oh, my family.
He's just like, completely blank faced.
No recognition. What's your thoughts, Jordan?
That was really interesting. I have one question, actually, before I share my thoughts.
Mule and Sonya, what do you think of them?
Um, personally, I thought they seemed functional in the sense that I felt they'd been put there as more of a POV
because they wanted some normal, the author wanted a normal human to be an insight onto this craziness
and didn't want Griffith to be that POV character effectively.
I know that's not quite how it works, but that was kind of the vibe.
I hear what you're saying. Yeah, I think that's definitely a case for Mule.
Um, I didn't realize until this reread that his name is Wolf Flame.
Uh, good for him. That's sick. Mule or Wolf Flame?
Sonya. Um, it's probably the second character I hate almost as much as Griffith.
Why? I can't stand her. I can't stand her.
I just can't, I really can't even explain it. And not even for like, spoiler reasons.
I just really don't like her. Every time she's on the page, I'm like, oh, go away. Shoot.
Is she like, too naive? Do you feel like she's just like, wake up, girl?
Uh...
Stop being a groupie?
Kind of?
Yeah, I guess. It's like she's sort of an enabler for the human race.
That's a really hard way to say it, but I can see that.
Sorry, kid. Like, seven-year-old, but I hate you and I, I mean, I hope.
Anyway, she's a sort of character I'm like, I want the scales to fall from her eyes.
And I look forward eagerly to the day where she's like, oh no, it's all destroyed.
I think that's... I don't know, I'm not gonna say fair enough, that seems a bit mean.
But I suppose that does need to happen. Like, there needs to be this moment where Griffiths can't keep up his white knight persona.
To be fair, that actually doesn't need to happen. I would love it if this series sort of wraps up with Guts killing Griffiths and the majority of humanity going,
what an asshole! He's just destroyed our paradise!
Yeah, yeah, God, that would be so good.
So yeah, those are my thoughts. It wasn't actually majorly on my radar. I was like, yeah, cool, this plot's running, but I wasn't like, oh, invested.
I don't care about the invading army. I'm like, okay, when Guts gets there...
Yeah, I'm really sorry, Duncan. The holy evil war that we're referring to is Griffiths war. It's gonna be pretty important to the next section of Berserk.
Alright.
Yeah, that's my voice as well. I remember the first time reading it for him, like, fucking hell, we're still doing this!
Have you ever read Naruto?
Yes. Actually, not only have I read Naruto, this past week I've been thinking about Naruto a lot and I don't know why.
I was listening to the soundtrack in some of the openings. I don't know why.
I still have such a childhood love for the very early, you know, the first, I'm gonna say the first 20 episodes of Naruto and the first opening, I'm just like, yes, I'm there, I'm a kid again.
Anyway, I'm just bringing this up because there's a massive section in Naruto where we just jump from Naruto's perspective to the sort of anti-heroes' perspective of Sasuke.
And it just sticks with him for way, way too long as he builds his crew and you're just like, I don't care. At least I was, I was like, why are we doing this?
I love that bit. I think that's one of the best bits of Naruto.
Well, yes.
I was really getting bored of Naruto himself at that point, to be fair. I was like, okay, I get it. Pain arc, yeah. Resets for ship, good stuff there, I like it. But no, Team Taka Sasuke, that's good stuff, I like it.
Oh, God. No, I was, I just felt like at that point, I was just like, can we just get to the end game? As soon as you get over, sorry, we're well off topic. Just for people to know, Pain Arc of Naruto, as far as I'm aware, that was basically the ending.
I think once we got to that, I, despite reading to the end, I emotionally checked out at the Pain Arc. I was like, I'm done.
You're completely right. You're completely right. It should have been pain arc, go straight to the final battle, have the final battle be one third the length, literally almost half of Shippuden, I'm pretty sure, in terms of episode count, is the final battle. It's like over a hundred episodes.
Can you imagine if Berserk has a similar ending to Naruto, where we just get to the end, and there's just like a surprise villain reveal, like it's like, you fought Griffith, the main villain, it was actually that member of the gods hand there, you know, the little fat one, he was the mastermind.
And then we zoom in on him and it's like, actually, I have a little devil in my pocket, who was telling me to do the whole time. Actual crap that happens in Naruto. It's insane. That's so true. It's so true. It's crazy.
Yeah, the ending of Naruto is pretty, pretty rushed. And the same for Bleach as well. One Piece, don't fuck it up, okay? Don't have it be revealed that Gold Roger wasn't actually the king of the pirates, it was his pet gerbil. Anyway.
Back to Berserk, and specifically back to Guts. So Guts is shepherding Casca across the land, and he has a serious change of pace for Guts. Guts has spent two years, and change, fighting alone by himself, with Puck, sure, but fighting pretty much by himself, for himself. And now he has to worry about someone else.
And you can tell the extra level of stress this puts on him. Like, to defend Casca, who is not capable at this point. The fatigue, he's getting worn down, he's tired, he doesn't know when he can really sleep, or get any energy back.
And Puck sort of expresses concern at this. And in this sort of bit of the arc, we get just this really, I'm going to say intelligent, but brutal, but heartbreaking moment in Guts and Casca's relationship. And I will be honest with you.
I paused for one second to say that something I was struck by upon this reread is there's actually a weird parallel between Guts' relationship to Casca at this point, and media surrounding being a single mother.
Okay Geordie, you're really going to have to expand on that point, because I... what?
It's the idea that like, you have this unforgiving job where you're always looking after someone, you have other stuff you have to do like earn a living, or in this case, fight demons, but you're always looking out for someone else, and no one's there to support you, and you never get enough sleep, and you really wish you had a partner at this time, but you don't, because you ran off with Zodd. I may have gone a bit too far on the metaphor, but you see what I mean, right?
I mean I do see what you mean, and I wasn't expecting to when you brought this up. Yes, if you're a single parent reading it and you're, this is the part of the manga you go, finally, it speaks to me. Good for you, I'm glad you've got enough time to read Berserk.
Amongst-
Hopefully not the next section.
No. Right, yes Geordie, so you- we're zigzagging here, I want to get to this next emotional point.
Ah.
Yes.
Things happen.
Dark, really dark.
So Guts in his, one of his rages, his anger, he sort of goes into his sort of Berserker state, not apparently a real thing, as I found out once. I think Geordie scolded me on it in some past episode.
Sorry pal, yeah.
He ends-
I think it was legend or something.
But Guts ends up not really aware of his surroundings, and he attacks Casca. Is it in his sleep? Is it a nightmare? I can't even recall.
So, yeah, Guts, so to clarify, a lot of fans do this, so this isn't your fault. There are two separate instances which a lot of people mingle into one, I do this as well. At one point, Guts is like semi-possessed by demons in the middle of a fight, and rather than like grab Casca and throw her out of a way of danger, he grabs her by the throat.
Okay, perfect.
And it's this violent moment, and it shatters their relationship. Casca, up to this point, has understood Guts is protecting me. She doesn't know who Guts is, because she's insane, but she knows this big scary man is protecting me, I can rely on him.
And now she doesn't trust him at all, she's terrified of him, and it gets worse, because after she won't cooperate with Guts, like she won't follow him around anymore, he ties up her hands in rope and drags her after her.
And what we're getting here is how Guts' rough, violent lifestyle doesn't behove himself to being a caretaker.
He can't turn off the switch that is, I need to fight and kill to defend people, to defend Casca.
He's made himself a killing machine, and now he has to be a single parent, basically? He can't. He can't change that switch.
And the thing that underlines this is the Beast of Darkness. You remember the Beast of Darkness, Dunc?
I know it now. So this creature first appeared in the Conviction Arc, it is not clear to me if it's meant to be more of a metaphorical manifestation of Guts' inner demons, or if it is literally an inner demon, but it is some sort of demonic wolf-like creature that possesses Guts, drives Guts, torments him.
But it's part of him.
Yeah, and I should specify, just because I'm pedantic, it's a dog, not a wolf. That's important later.
Very well.
So this voice in Guts' head, which appears to him in dreams, and it's not clear, are these demon dreams, like he was being touched by a succubus when it happened, is it his own inner id, his own inner desires, manifest themselves as a voice in his head? They're telling him to rip apart, to rape and murder Casca.
Yeah, dark.
Dark.
Very intense. Particularly at this point where Guts is taking so much more of a, as you've kind of aptly put, paternal stance with Casca. I don't know why that makes it even more particularly worse, but it does.
It's always terrible.
Yeah, it's just, you kind of voice him, and it really hurts because, I think in this part, because Guts firstly wasn't in full control, had sort of good intentions, it makes it all the more gut-wrenching that he loses Casca's trust, because that's all he wants most in the world.
Yeah, he wants to take care of her, and once he loses her trust, his last connection to Casca, to be liked and appreciated by her, that's gone. But the important thing is, the demon possession where he grabs her by the throat, the dreams where he has these dark visions, those, we don't know what hand they play in the action, where after Guts falls asleep, Casca slips away, she's found and almost raped by a group of demons, and then she's taken away.
She's almost raped by a group of mercenaries, and she kills them with a sword, that Guts, after overcoming her, if she attacks him with the sword, kisses her, and then in a fugue state, almost assaults her and almost rapes her.
Oh boy, this is heavy.
It is heavy, and it's horrible, and it should be noted, not the worst part in Berserk, but it's probably one of the most uncomfortable parts, but Guts isn't being touched by a demon at that point, so to what extent is this just the fact that Guts is kind of a lunatic? You know, he's been fighting demons for three years or whatever.
And that's the key part with the beast of darkness. That's what really makes this creepy. You're like, is he being possessed? Because you said he's partly possessed during the action scene, like his eyes are not his own, and you're like, is this an external influence, or is this just Guts?
And Guts has been so wonderfully characterised, particularly over Lost Children and Conviction, that you have to stand there and go, I'm not sure. I generally don't have enough faith in my hero to be able to say.
Was that the beast? What's the difference? So at this point, things are the worst they've ever been between Guts and Casca. She has her tied to trees so he can rest, and at this really dark and grim moment, a character comes stumbling into the story.
We're getting the band back together.
Hell yeah. Depending on whether you like the band or not, in which case you might be like, no, but personally I'm going hell yeah. Duncan, where do you stand?
Honestly, I'm in the hell yeah category. Hell yeah. Because, Geordie, this is the thing. Isidro, Farness and Serpico are back. They're back, and Berserk has such a reputation for the really dark moments.
And I'm not gonna lie, I actually really do enjoy the Lost Children arc, but it is mostly just Guts and Puck. I do enjoy that section. But when you look at the Golden Age, what made it so good? Was it the Band of the Hawk? Was it the other characters who didn't make it? I love the fact that he formed relationships and he had a gang.
And Guts, who is such this tormented puppy, has a support network and has friends. And we talk about Griffith, like his whole thing is, do I have human emotion, human attachment? No, I do not. I am above that.
So Guts' sort of to win that sort of moral victory is to build those sorts of relationships. It's a perfect counterpoint in what I think this series really should be about. It's about going from the black swordsman, where we go, he's a loner. Well, that's a bit basic. I've seen a loner fighting demons. To, I have a connected family. It's great.
I'm glad you're on the same page as me, Duncan, which is liking the team. I'm really interested to see how you enjoy the other changes of status quo. In this section, we did brush over something and I think I'll just dabble in it really quick, really quick.
We get like a lengthy couple of chapters with Serpico where we learn his origin story and we learn that he was like a guttersnipe and he was brought into Farnes' family. And it turns out that like he's actually her half-brother.
This is the section of Berserk I actually got the most out of this time because it's one that I've read, you know, six, eight times before. But this time I really perused it. I like lovingly went over each page and I felt like I was a lot more connected to the characters afterwards.
I don't expect you to have that much of a revelation because this is your first time reading and you probably read this section a while ago. But how did you feel about the Serpico section?
I enjoyed it because in the Conviction Arc, although I was like, oh, Serpico is cool. He is so cool. He was a little bit. He is really cool. But he's, you know, he's a bit of a smirk and a quick wit and a bit of a flashy swordsman.
This added depth to his character that he sort of needed to then be elevated sort of more main character level. I think for him to come back on the team, he needed a quick injection of like, okay, here's some tragic backstory. This is what this is the pain he's hiding. Everyone's got to be hiding some level of pain. Okay, cool. Let's move on.
Okay, Farny, Serpico, Isidro are back. How do you feel about Isidro in this section of the story? Do you feel like he serves the narrative? Because he actually, surprisingly, kind of comes into his fall in the troll section.
So Isidro is the young child of the group. He definitely has the less emotional baggage, although I'm sure he does have a dark backstory. Ran more orphans don't spontaneously appear.
Not an orphan actually, just ran off from home.
Really? Yeah. Gosh. Very briefly gone over. I think I love him in the morning. The two tiny panels that in this section he gets are his only backstory.
Wow. I felt like Isidro in this section became a little bit of what Puck was in The Lost Children.
I felt like he was given a bit of lighter comedy relief, but he was still actively driving the plot and similar to Puck during The Lost Children, he would have certain conversations that I feel like Guts couldn't have that would add greater depth to the characters in that sort of episode.
What I'm trying to get at is that in Lost Children, Puck would talk to some of the children characters and sort of elements of the fairies and sort of learn a bit of their backstory. Isidro talks to some of the town people in ways that Guts couldn't.
And it gives us an insight. It makes me more invested. I have problems, we'll get there, but I'm like, I don't actually in the world of Berserk particularly like the common folk. They're portrayed mostly as being arseholes. So you do need a character to go and chat to them and be like, oh, you are decent people. Life is hard. And Isidro fulfils that role in this story arc.
And one more question about this before we move on. Same question, Farness. Her section here is quite divisive amongst Berserk fans. There are strong opinions on both sides, yay or nay, Farness.
Okay, I ultimately, so Farness in this section, I felt the main kind of addition to her is that she's becoming more of the go-to protector for Casca. Casca who loses her faith in Guts is sort of handed to Farness or goes to Farness as the person the Guts you can trust. I'm not going to lie, probably because they're both women.
Yeah, completely makes sense to me as a reader. I enjoyed this for Farness. I think it was good to give Farness something else to do in the group and to move her beyond her role in Conviction. My only issue, Geordie, tiny one.
I did feel, even though I've had this over a long time, I was like, oh, I feel like you were just left a little bit too messed up previously. I feel like we've dropped off your emotional baggage a bit too quickly. I swear, weren't you touching yourselves to burning bodies not that long ago?
To be honest, it is weird that that is never properly addressed. I think personally though that actually this section deals pretty lengthily with Farnes’ new issues and that is something she says about herself, which is then used against her by fans of the series, which is Farness is useless.
No, completely not. She's critical. In fact, she's critical because she gives firstly in predominantly the gender and sex is very important to the world of Berserk, the balance of power and we deal with so many instances of sexual assault. We deal with kings, princesses, the role of women within this society, particularly to Casca's story arc is critical.
So I think having a female character who's not in Casca's state to be an active member of the group is incredibly important. And I also think she's really good because she can then be that voice to Casca who I don't think who needs it. I think she does an excellent group job within the team.
I'm completely on her side. I love Farney. I am an ardent defender of Farness and I feel for her as someone who's in a group full of extraordinary people who can do a lot. It's sad to not be able to do the same things. And the fact that the thing she can do is look after Casca.
And one hand you're like, well, she's babysitting, you know, she's not doing something big, except guess what? Looking after Casca is the whole point of the Conviction Arc. There's an entire arc of this story dedicated to nothing else except protecting Casca.
The fact that trust is put in her by Guts to guard the thing that is most precious to him in the world. That's like that's foundational. That's like elemental stuff right there.
Anyway, team Farney. Yeah, I'll be on her side. I would say that maybe it would be nice to see her have a few more interactions, particularly when we deal with sort of her, you know, she comes from the church and the establishment.
Maybe if we get a few scenes later on where that kind of comes into play and she sets in girl, look, I am Farness. I am off this household, blah, blah, blah, you know, can help them from that kind of angle. I think that'd be nice to see. But I'm very happy with this arc.
Now we get to the new characters.
To quickly bridge the gap, they meet some guy whose village is in trouble with trolls. Trolls are in this mythology, these small chimpanzee-like creatures with long snouts. They don't really look like any living creature, but you can tell the way he sort of taken this like Icelandic idea of a troll with the big prominent noses and he's done it in a way that is one good design.
Good design. I think it's pretty good to not and schematic. Good job, Kentaro.
Yeah, they're the… they're the creatures of the day, just like the fairy swarm thing was back in children, the Lost Children Arc.
And our heroes basically go if you want to fight these guys, you need to find the witch of the woods deep in the forest. Yeah, have at it.
So we're now introduced through Isidro as our perspective character to the character of Schierke.
This should be introduction of Schierke is like a tremendous change to the established like the established genre of the established tone of Berserk.
Things are never the same after this character is introduced. She's a young witch’s apprentice.
She has phenomenal magical powers. It's the first time ever that magic has sort of been wielded in Guts’ favour.
Up till now, it's been dark and strange. So this is a big deal.
This is like if suddenly Conan was fighting things and then Gandalf showed up to help him.
Now, that's really important because it's not just what this character does and her personality.
I also think there's a lot to be said about her design. She's intentionally a young girl like Isidro's age a bit older and she wears like a witch's hat.
She looks like she could have come from Hogwarts. Yeah, she could come from Hogwarts.
She could have been like a Final Fantasy character.
I mean, like an early Final Fantasy character, not a Final Fantasy 17 character.
We're only up to 16. Calm down. You're absolutely right. Oh, Geordie, I have so much I want to say.
So as a first-time reader, I knew that later Berserk was not the Golden Age.
Okay, I knew that was a thing. But reading it through, I could see how the Golden Age naturally progressed into the Black Swordsman.
I saw Black Swordsman to the Lost Children and all of Conviction.
This is the bit where I kind of went my I don't know how to describe it. My Wizard of Oz moment. My Toto were not in Kansas anymore.
I just went, ah, I can see looking at a panel here with our characters and they also later get like magical weapons.
How this might not look like what I was reading in the Golden Age. In fact, it doesn't show low fantasy.
Now we're kind of verging on a high fantasy and it ramps up quick. And I think my issue here a little bit.
And I don't know, this always feels wrong to say because there's no law of the universe that I know of.
That means this should be the case, Geordie. But tell me if you have a similar feel.
Low fantasy? Brutal. Adult. Dealing with hard hitting themes. Game of, you know, early Game of Thrones style.
Your Conan. That can be dark. That can be gruesome. That can have real proper let's put a trigger warning on this alarm.
High fantasy? Well, that's Lord of the Rings, sir. That's some delightful hobbits. We're off to Isengard.
This is more palatable. This is more PG. That might be the case. Duncan, this is a series I haven't read yet.
How would you rank the, what are they called? The Black Blades? The Black Company? The Black Company.
High or low fantasy? Oh, no, that's quite... That's high. That's high fantasy. Oh, yeah, you got me.
You got me there. I know what you mean. Like, this section is all about them getting weapons that are blessed by the fairies.
And they're going to fight some clay golems. Oops, when I slash this thing, it doesn't bleed.
And then they fight the trolls, who are awful. So they can see why you might say, yeah, there's some dissonance here.
But there isn't. No, high fantasy can be dark as all hell.
I think you're right. I think you're right. But that's definitely the vibe I had. I was puzzling this. Is this weird? Is it known?
I can't believe you threw Black Company in my face. Dear God. I haven't even read that yet. I was just down like, can I say it's not high fantasy?
And I was just thinking going, well, there are two wizards and they fly on a giant whale at one point.
And there's definitely that bit with the weird magic pogo sticks that take them over towers.
And there's also all the paedophilia. This sounds so much stupider than I had been led to believe. What the fuck is going on?
This sounds like some Droon shit. And there's definitely a section in the later bits where they have to survive in this cave
by eating the mushrooms growing off like an immortal zombie that's been crucified to light the wall.
Also, Elric. Elric's dark and that's high fantasy.
You're quite right. And I think maybe maybe it unfair of me to put it to say what I've said.
I do know I stand back from it, but I felt like I needed to put it onto the floor.
I feel like other people might have a similar vibe.
Right. But what really matters not dissonance and saying high fantasy is not dark fantasy. Evidently, that's not true.
The question is, is Berserk high fantasy? Having previously been very low fantasy where all the fantastical elements were the other.
They were strange. They were dark and principally, much like in any sword and sandal story, but not on the hero side.
You're right. That is the actual dissonance. So much so, I think, you know, I mentioned this in our very first episode on Berserk.
The Golden Age anime, the original Berserk anime from the 90s, effectively, other than Zodd and the Eclipse, edited out all reference to anything magical.
Like, intensely. Yeah, pretty much. They're just like, this is a medieval fantasy story. This sword's real big, though.
That's the most fantastical thing about it. And then, boom, the Eclipse. What a shocker.
So it is actually really interesting to see, because up to this point in the story, all magic that we see is effectively demonic.
It is the evil. And to see that there's this good magic, I say that, we know that Puck exists, but he's like the outlier.
He's fourth wall breaking comic relief. We'll get to it very soon.
So it felt different. I'm not going to, I think everyone who's read this must know that.
This is the point I would say it became almost unrecognisable. All I could say to this is, I liked the characters enough that I didn't super care.
Yeah, you haven't actually talked about how you like Schierke.
I do like Schierke. I do like Schierke. I know she looks a bit funny. I'm not going to lie, her design may be one or two details, but I think,
although she almost sometimes doesn't feel like someone previously in Berserk, I like her interactions with Isidro.
I like the way she knows what she's doing, but she's still unconfident. She's a very powerful witch, but she's stepping into the world for the first time.
I love all her interactions and meeting the group. I think she's a really fun extra character because everyone else so far had been,
I think maybe this is a little bit the element, is that how everyone, not even everyone else, even Isidro, but like they come from a really dark place where she doesn't as much.
That's true. She's basically come from paradise. She's been completely sheltered at this point. She has no interactions with civilization itself.
She's like averse to it when she arrives. She's sort of contemptuous of its people for a while.
What a great character to have.
It parallels Guts, doesn't it?
What a great perspective to bring in.
We also get hit with like an A4, you know, a 200-page excerpt of world building at this point where you're absolutely slammed with information about the astral world
and the world of the idea and fate and the god hand and magical stuff and fairies and Duncan, you don't have to explain it.
From a percentage point or a fraction point, how much of it do you think you like understood and were like, yeah, that makes sense to me. I totally get this.
Oh, a solid 15 percent.
Sure. Yeah, and that's fair to be honest. You get hit so heavily with it.
I think it is good to learn about Berserk, like what is kind of happening at this point, but you don't actually need to understand what odd is or what the deities are to be like, they're going to a dungeon.
They're going into a dungeon. That's all they need to know.
It's so disinclined.
What's Qliphoth? I don't care.
I always felt reading Berserk that the author knew these things. I think the author does a really nice job of giving the impression that there's a wider world out there and he knows what's going on behind the scenes.
You know, this is the tip of the iceberg we're seeing.
And this is the first time where I feel like it's almost like we get to this point, like, OK, you can have some answers now in a weird way.
It almost feels a little bit like someone losing faith in how Berserk had been running up to that point. Like, if I don't change up, people might leave.
I doubt that would have been the case.
It's like, here's some answers. We're shaking things up. Maybe it's from the author's perspective, they were bored writing and they're like, come on, let's get the pieces moving again. Let's go in a different direction.
I will say this is that all of the stuff about the astral world and the world of the idea, this has been there basically since day one.
If you know it's coming, that all this stuff is coming and you read through it again, you're like, man, they are just like, this is just straight to the point.
It never wavers from this idea of what's going on. It's pretty clear that he knew what he was doing here. So genuinely impressive.
Again, can tell him you're a genius. Pity you deal with all the rape, but genius. Not raped to be dead, but he drew. Just to be clear.
Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad I kind of got this perspective, but it didn't actually really impact me majorly.
To be honest, Geordie, we've talked about the introduction to the band, and I love that. The introduction to High Magic.
And while there was dissonance, I kind of still enjoyed it because I love some fun action scenes.
The new character of Schierke. And I do... Schierke. Sorry.
What you've got to remember is that what Kintaro Miura is trying to say is Saoirse.
But he doesn't get Irish or whatever Saoirse is. And so he's translated it wrong.
He's like, when he's written that in kanji or whatever he's done, he's made it sound sh-er-ka.
It's like in her name in Japanese, probably like sh-er-oko or something.
I'm not sure. I never bothered to watch the anime when we got here because it sucked.
But I enjoyed having a new perspective and I like her as a character.
If anything, actually, maybe this does feel more Golden Age because we've got a band and that's great.
And there are a variety of people in it who do have different perspectives and different levels of seriousness.
The only real bit in this section where I felt like I was a bit done and I went,
I don't think I enjoyed that. Like, you're just ruining Berserk for me at this point.
It's good old Puck.
Ah, yeah. Yeah, Puck, like I said, he's had his last hurrah when he says we should go to my homeland.
The moment I think he meets... I don't even know how to pronounce his name. Iverala or whatever.
The lady version of Puck who's Schierke's friend, who is funny enough, she's serviceable.
The moment she arrives and now he has like a someone to bounce jokes off of, he's insufferable.
I open into this episode Out of Place Yoda reference. Why does Puck do a Yoda?
He does it... He does it a lot, actually. He's gonna keep doing it.
He does a Yoda. He does like a little army man, like in a modern day uniform at one point.
And... He's just doing bits. He's just doing bits. He's being the genie from Aladdin.
And I'm not gonna lie. Oh my god, he is doing the genie from Aladdin.
I don't think Berserk needs that. I think... Do you think Puck should be voiced by Robin Williams or I guess his ghost?
I mean, sure, why not? I mean, it's not like we have a good adaptation anyway.
So... I found that really off-putting, particularly because I felt that the other characters could, if you wanted comic relief...
I personally felt that Isidro and Schierke had a nice bit of banter as the younger members.
I thought that was cute. I think that could work. And Serpico has his snark, and that's funny.
Like, there is comic relief to be had in Berserk.
Yeah, and actually the jokes between Serpico and Puck aren't bad. They're like, that is nice banter, you're right.
So I didn't felt it was needed and when you remind me that Star Wars exists, you remind me that I'm reading a piece of media that exists in our world, which obviously I am aware of.
But I find the very, you know... I'm reading this for a bit of escapism to apparently a much darker place. Nonetheless...
I didn't need it and not only did I not need it, I didn't feel it added, I felt it subtracted in those moments.
It took me out of the scene and out of the moment and away from my characters. And I don't think comic relief should ever do that.
So... the trolls. In the next bit of the story they fight trolls.
Excellent. Thank you for summarizing it, Geordie. I feel like you got all the key points there.
Yeah, pretty much. There's tiny things we can get on. We have Isidro learning to fight. Previously he kind of couldn't.
Now he has a magical salamander dagger and... yeah, we should briefly go over the magical items they get or at least the salamander dagger and the stuff Serpico gets.
Yes. So talking about the high fantasy, these are two clear examples. I'm not going to lie. Felt like I was watching Vox Machina.
You got your special magical items. You're playing D&D, guys.
Do you know what? Maybe that is a little bit of a fair point. Particularly with Sherika looking so much like a traditional Final Fantasy witch, it does feel a bit like a D&D party.
It does. You got a rogue, you got another rogue. Okay, never mind. It's over. That's it.
No, you got your wizard, you got your fighter, you got your two rogues. You got a barbarian fighter, you got a rogue, you got a rogue and you got someone who is maybe more like Dark Souls and she has the wretched class.
Geordie, let's not pretend that you haven't run parties of just like four paladins. Diversity is not needed.
That's true. We are five paladins and a wizard.
And we were one hell of a team.
Fucking hell, you are unstoppable. So good. There's a level 17 up to 20 campaign around then.
Anyway, the magical items. So yes, we get the Salamander Sword and we get, Serpico gets this wind spirit.
Now, something I really like. I really like the fact that to break magic away from this sort of demonic power established throughout the whole rest of Berserk, I like that we're taking this more sort of druid-y, that's a word, standpoint.
You know, the spirits, the elemental spirits and they're not necessarily good or evil per se.
These are the neutral spirits of the world that you can still call upon.
And actually, I think it was really nice learning about this side of magic because it actually made me for the first time go, oh, maybe the God Hand aren't actually omnipotent.
You know, they're just another magical force in a world full of magic.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I still think they're omnipotent, but here we go.
And yeah, Serpico gets the Sylph Cloak and Sylph Sword, which are wind spirits. So he can float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.
He can slash with air currents. He can deflect like arrows with a wind current and he can, you know, flit around and stuff. How do you feel about that?
So a little bit mixed because one thing I've really enjoyed in Berserk is that Guts goes toe to toe with big demons because Guts is Guts.
He's got Guts. He is powerful and he's just the epiphany of like what a person can be.
I feel like this is a little bit of attempt of taking these characters who the author didn't want to make Guts because Guts has to be special.
Not anyone can be as strong as Guts.
So how do I level up these characters and I give them magical items?
Dex fighters.
Yeah, with Serpico, I was a tad disappointed because I actually found Serpico was really cool in the Conviction because he did seem like he could go toe to toe just based on his skill.
Like he was just that great a swordsman, but in a very different way. You know, he was the speed where Guts was the brawn.
I think it's fine if it means that fights are going to start escalating and I do feel like in a series that's going to go on as long as Berserk is going to go on with what? Halfway point? Thereabouts? Just over?
Then, yeah, we're like two thirds of the way through.
If you're going to be escalating the scale of fights, you want to like give a bit more power to your characters.
Again, I only disliked it really, Geordie, personally.
I feel like I'm really going hard on that personally. This is just my opinion, guys. Berserk fandom, please be kind to me.
I only really disliked it because it then made me feel like, oh, this is like power creep in a Shonen.
Yeah, in Naruto.
Yeah, in Naruto. This is about like, this is like that.
And up to this point, Berserk hasn't been like any other manga. Berserk is barely like any other work of fiction.
Like it's been its own thing. And in this moment, I felt those other influences seeping into it.
I don't know, it felt a little bit less special, a bit more like the rest.
And so now that's going to lead us on to the thing that's going to wrap this up.
There's one small thing we've got to get to before we talk about the Berserker armour.
That is that Guts is his first encounter with one on one with one of the God Hand.
Yes, he does. He meets, I don't know her name, the female one.
Slaad.
Sorry, what's it?
Slaad.
Future Geordie here. This is a major embarrassing mistake. It's Slan, not Slad.
Slaad is a weird frog creature from Dungeons and Dragons. That's, it's just embarrassing. I'm sorry.
He meets Slad in one of the Troll Caves.
I, for me, Geordie, this felt a little bit like, and again, I don't know beyond this arc or sub arc or first half of an arc.
I don't know where we go with the God Hand, but I almost felt like breaking the one off was sort of the obvious way going,
look, I'm going to have to drip feed these to Berserk, not Berserk, oh my God, to Guts as a, I'm sorry, I just called him that.
Yes, the main character Berserk.
To Guts as like sub bosses, like if I keep them on their pedestal, they can't interact with our heroes.
So I've got to break them down from their sort of lofty unknowable heights.
In doing that, I feel like you lose a bit of that kind of Cthulhu mythos mystique and unknow, obviously unknowable, evil and looming factor.
But I also felt, well, I feel like this is the only way you can do this. If you actually want our hero, you know, to beat them one day.
Interesting. So Duncan, I want to hit you with something. I want to see if you've registered this.
Guts bests her in this scene with help from the Skull Knight. She's not dead. And that wasn't actually her.
So what?
So she manifests in this moment because he's not in a material world.
He's in Qliphoth, like the dark edge of the Astral World. And so she can manifest here by like the remains, like the spilled Guts of all the trolls that Guts killed in Qliphoth.
And so what appears to him now is not her in her true power, because she can only appear out of the deepest depths of the Astral World when she's summoned by the Behelit, right?
So this is just like an apparition and she fucks Guts up and he only survives because of the Skull Knight showing up. But that's not her. And he doesn't kill her.
I'm glad to confirm that. I to be fair, I didn't actually think she was permanently gone. But that is that's good to know that she was limited.
But it still felt like it was the first time she wasn't literally on the pedestal.
She was being knocked down. But I'm actually quite happy to hear that. I am really interested with the character of the Skull Knight.
Yeah.
Because this is yet another time, what, four, five times now, the Skull Knight has swooped in when Guts is literally on his last legs to save the day.
And I do really feel like I, again, I don't know. But like for Guts to go to the next level, the Skull Knight needs to be removed as like a safety net.
Okay, I'll wrap up the episode with a discussion of the Skull Knight then.
So Guts escapes. He defeats this apparition of Slad. The Skull Knight helps him escape the collapse of Qliphoth. And they all make it back.
They've rescued. Again, we don't need to get into this section. Trolls. They need to rescue Casca and Farness. They do.
Guts is really badly injured by Slad, but hey, he gets fixed by fairy powder.
And then they make their way back towards the witch. Except to return, you know, to return Schierke and say, hey, we did it. Here's your magical items back.
But on the way back, Guts collapses. Because the wounds he sustained from Slad, though they've healed on the surface with Guts', with Puck's, magical fairy dust,
they actually, he's still wounded. He's wounded at the astral level. So he's weak and his armour has been shredded. So he's walking back completely shirtless now.
And now, Duncan, there's a sort of surprise climax. Like, was this a surprise to you, how things shake out?
I'm not going to say it was a complete surprise because I sort of thought that the safety, basically, points of safety need to get destroyed along the journey to try to justify why they keep pushing forward and bringing Casca with them.
It's so true. It happens every time.
So I sort of knew something was going to burn down the magic tree in the safety net, the witch's home.
That didn't surprise me as much as what really got me at this section. They returned back and it's under attack by soldiers from Griffith.
And what really took me by surprise, one, is the introduction of the Berserk armour. Finally, I know why they named the series thus.
Halfway through.
And I loved in this section. So the witch that had been teaching Schierke, the actual witch of the woods, Flora or Lady of the Forest or whatever she was called, has a conversation with the Skull Knight.
And this did take me by surprise massively.
Because I don't know, maybe I've got this wrong. I got the impression from this conversation that it's almost like the gang that like Guts is forming is the 2.0.
It's the second go round. I really got the impression from the Skull Knight and the witch's conversation that they used to probably do.
They had their own round of fighting with.
Yeah, Duncan, can you see how fucking huge the stuff that happens in this section is to like unpacking the world of Berserk?
Because you're right. These two are chums. They're friends. And this is not a spoiler.
When the Skull Knight was alive, that was like thousands of years ago when he was Geiseric, the conqueror.
Well, I didn't know that personally, but it did remind me of one specific moment in Golden Age that has always stuck with me.
There's a bit at the very end of Golden Age where they go to break Griffith, our prison, and they go to the tower and they look down and they're like, oh, this is built on the ruins of like a much older civilization.
And I'm like, and you get a panel down there of like a skull with the brand of sacrifice on it.
Yes.
And I was like, oh my God, this is like a cycle.
Like, and in my mind, I was like, maybe like to become like every time I get a full member of the God Hand gets recruited.
Like it's actually they've all had their own Griffith level stories.
Yes. Yes, Duncan. That's exactly right.
Every time.
Which is like amazing.
Because I feel like there was was a some element where the Skull Knight was implied to have a special relationship with one member of the God Hand.
With Void, the guy with an exposed brain.
Yes.
Oh, perfect.
So I love the idea of this cycle.
And there's one more thing to come, Dunc, in this like putting together all the pieces of this puzzle. So they show back up to go home.
The tree is on fire. It's being attacked by Apostles.
And specifically, it's not just being attacked by Apostles.
It's being attacked by the Band of the Hawk.
And Guts, wounded as he is, is he's fighting demons as he does, but he's actually not quite strong enough to take down even the small Apostles.
And then he's confronted by a new foe.
Yeah, this guy.
Grunbeld.
Love a sub boss.
Tell us about Grunbeld, Duncan.
He is a sub boss. That's true. He's a little mini boss.
Unless you play one of those Berserk video games, in which case he's the big, big final boss.
I mean, hats off to anyone going to make like a Berserk video game before Berserk's finished.
But whatever.
I suppose they didn't want to wait 50 years, which may be the rate at which this is going.
Yes, it meets another big demon. I'm not going to lie.
I didn't particularly see anything super unique about him.
He seemed to have a slight weird like his honour vibe.
You know, he's like, I will fight you alone and I want a challenge and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, he feels like a shonen protagonist almost.
He didn't necessarily.
I don't think in the grand scale of all of fantasy that I've ever read that unique.
I did feel like I felt this fit in before.
Do you think he deserves a spin off novel, Duncan?
Um, you got one.
Well, that's that's a very complex question.
I would be honest. Berserk has maintained such a high level of quality.
I do feel like almost any person's backstory, like any demon could get a spin off going like.
And this is how I felt to the dark side.
Yes, except would you believe me if I said Berserk fans,
Routinely say it is the worst piece of literature of all time.
I think we need to introduce the Berserk fans to some of the stuff we've read on here.
Who can say? I don't read light novels because I'm not a weeb.
Now let's get back to talking about this manga, which I love so dearly.
The fight between Grunbeld and Guts is in two parts.
The first part is where Guts is without his armour.
He's severely injured and he's getting battered around like a plaything by Grunbeld, who's stronger than a typical Apostle.
So so all the times Guts has almost died fighting a demon.
This dude's even stronger. He hasn't unlocked all his powers yet.
Guts is more injured than he normally is when he goes into such a fight.
He's completely fucked.
And what's more, Zodd is here, which means that the Skull Knight is distracted and he can't come to Guts' aid.
Who is there to come to Guts' aid?
But Flora, because she tells Schierke, take Guts and give him the armour.
This armour is amazing.
It's so great.
You talked about power group.
This is the ultimate power up in Berserk.
It changes everything.
The entire series almost becomes like Guts' relationship to a piece of metal, to his own armour.
So not being able to kind of jump the gun too much.
So this arm is introduced. It's a magical armour.
I'm not going to lie. It looks an awful lot like the Skull Knight.
Makes me think perhaps he was a previous owner or something similar.
And it basically means that when you wear the armour, you do not feel pain.
You can push through anything. You do not suffer any pain.
And for someone like Guts, this means he can go to town.
Yeah. And it lifts the classic anime trope, Kaio-ken.
It lifts the limits of what your body can do because you aren't restricted by pain.
It turns off the parts of your body which say, don't push too hard. You'll break.
It says, don't worry. You won't break. Go to town.
And Guts goes Berserk.
He has one of the most incredible fights in all of fiction full stop period.
I'm not exaggerating. I'm not being funny. I mean it.
This was incredible. And obviously it's been great.
This whole arc, there's been some great fight scenes.
I love seeing the other characters get their moment to shine.
But we haven't actually really gotten Guts really letting loose like this for a while at this point.
I'd say he's never let loose like this. I mean he's literally out of control.
It's so cool. And I love the idea that this is going to be a major factor going forward.
I would hate it if this got taken away from like it broke at some point.
And then Guts had to like relearn how to fight without it.
Although that actually could be a cool story arc in and of its own right.
I love the fact that when he gets given the armour, it has the skull motif.
And then as he like fights in it, it takes on more of the form of the Beast of Darkness.
I know. It gets the lightning bolt eyes. I'm not going to lie. Controversial opinion.
I actually prefer its original look. I think it just looks so awesome.
But the updated look is one of the most iconic images in all of Berserk.
So I mean I can't possibly get mad about it.
It does lend strengths and interpretation that that Beast of Darkness is in Guts.
Like it is part of him. That's why it's manifesting on the armour from my perspective.
That's certainly how I read it.
Now this is great and you get all the best bits. He's pushing too far.
He's fighting so well. Oh my god what's going to happen?
We've got to leave. We've got to pull him back.
Otherwise he's just going to exhaust himself, die and then we're all screwed.
He's got to remember his conviction to Casca. This is all amazing.
I do have one tiny little nitpick at this though Geordie. Can I just get it out?
Isn't he looks too much like Batman?
No. No. I actually don't mind that. I think it's a cool look. I love it.
The fact that he has a bit of a cape going. Sweet.
The cape does look so good.
My issue Geordie is I felt like it came out a little bit out of nowhere.
I mean yes it does come out of nowhere. I have a super charged up magical item which you can use that will change the status quo of the entire series.
Fair enough. It is like saying, by the way Guts would you like to have Excalibur? I have it lying around.
I promise you that it is set up. It is thematic to the series.
And it is important going forwards because it connects Guts and the Skull Knight.
That's why I say it doesn't come out of nowhere. I'm sorry I just punched my microphone because I was too excited.
Well that's brilliant. I really like the idea that this is what the Skull Knight was building too.
The Skull Knight was looking for someone who could wear the armour. I mean that's a really cool idea.
To be honest I'm really interested just to know why the Skull Knight is interested in Guts.
Because he's a struggler.
Is he the only one? Did he pick him for that? When did the Skull Knight first go?
Hang on a minute.
Golden Age.
That mortal.
I don't know. I think it was during the battle. He appears to him for the first time after he has sex with Casca and maybe that was it.
Is that after? Because it's not after the 100-man fight is it?
It is after but it's like a long time after.
Time after.
I've just been reading through the fight with Grunbeld again and the latter part where he like Guts regains his sanity.
And I've noticed that when he's fighting this form the helmet maintains the lightning bolt look but you can see his eyes through it.
So previously they're all white like they're full of fire. And in the anime they're red. Which makes sense.
And then when he regains his sanity that red goes away and you can see his human eyes.
In future instances when Guts has his sanity and he's using the armour the eye slits are circles.
And I think some people do not like that look. Which is fair enough.
I mean I can't comment on that. We haven't got that. This is only the first use case.
And yeah now they all have their special abilities. Just like in a D&D campaign they've all got their special powers now.
And they do retreat. Guts regains control.
How does he regain control Dunc?
Oh I can't remember. He sees Casca.
I'll tell you. This is important. This is going to be really important to the future of basically all the big fights in Berserk from now on.
Which is that the way he's able to regain control is that he's gone completely insane. We should clarify that.
He's lost all reason. He's all id. Fight. Kill. He cannot recognise friends. Period.
He can't even recognise faces.
That's right but Schierke-
Uses her astral projection powers which she has to go into Guts’ mind.
And in Berserk like our mind is like a whole world in of itself and she sees through memories.
She sees glittering shining memories. Which show Guts’ time with the Band of the Hawk and memories of Casca and memories of Griffith.
And then she sees dark memories of the eclipse. An overwhelming force within his mind that yeah it's so dark and strange that it almost tears Schierke apart.
Like it should destroy her.
And the only reason it doesn't is the talismans which Flora placed upon Casca and Guts earlier.
And behind that talisman, protected, is Guts’ ego. And beautifully done.
By the way, Berserk is very Freudian at this point. And I don't mean Guts wants to fuck his mum.
What I mean is that the ideas here are very Freudian, very Jungian. The collective unconscious is brought up a lot.
And Guts’ ego is like a tangible thing in this. And it's represented as a flickering flame.
With no, it's the shape of Guts or at least like the other part of Guts.
No arms, just like a torso and a head. And Guts’ one eye is a jagged lightning bolt.
So he's been taken over by the beast of darkness. He's forgotten who he is.
His identity is gone. All he can think is “kill, run, fight, Griffith.”
And then she reminds him who he is. Right there at the centre of his mind, of his soul, she says,
Your name is Guts, the branded swordsman, Guts, the protector of Casca, the branded girl.
And Guts’ ego is completely transformed. He gets his features back, his eye is back to normal.
And he remembers. And this reminder of who he is and that his purpose is to protect Casca,
brings him back to reality. He stops fighting Grunbeld, period. He just says, it's no point fighting.
And he leaves, he rescues his friends and they get the fuck out.
It's a really cool scene. I love that the villain he's fighting turns into sort of a dragon.
Going back to his sword’s namesake. I'm like, let's see some more of these guys about.
Hey look, it's one of the Crystal Dragons from Dark Souls. I wonder where they got that idea?
So much between Dark Souls and Berserk. And I really like the moment when Guts finally cuts down
one of the demonic creatures that's literally about to attack Farness and Casca.
Slices his sword through its mouth, it falls apart, and he sort of just has his helmet off now.
He just kind of gives a little smile. He does smile at one point, you're right.
I love the look of Guts after he takes off the helmet. He is so fucked up. It's incredible.
And the best thing is, Duncan, he now has this tuft of white in his hair.
He's been forever changed by the use of this armour. But he's so fucking burnt.
I'd hardly notice that, but you're right, I didn't know if it was shading.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is part of Guts' design now.
It's a good thing those burns got healed by Puck, because that would have changed his design a lot more
if just half his face was Zuko'd off.
And we come to the end. I love the fact that Guts picks up Sherika to run away and carries her off.
I love the final ending of this arc with her looking back.
Her mistress, the Witch of the Woods, has created a firewall to cover their escape.
And I like that we actually end on her little moment, because this is very much her introductory arc.
Just being like, oh, she's left her place of safety. No, let me get the actual line.
Farewell, my sunshine. And this arc actually ends on her little memory of her and her mistress when she was younger.
That's right. It's so cute.
That was a cute moment.
Yeah, Sherika has been just like Guts. Her safe place, her home, her identity before has been stripped away.
She's lost it now. And those things that are lost never come back.
The one thing she does say is, we shall meet again in dreams, which is the most unintentional foreshadowing of all time.
Berserk fans know what I'm talking about.
This is obviously supposed to be just like, you will remember me, Mufasa or Simba.
Go forth. But later down the line, it's like, no, no, no, that was very deliberate foreshadowing.
And I'm like, you're fucking full of shit, Kintaro. There's no way you'd intentionally set this up.
I don't know. So far in Berserk, if there is someone I trust to be laying seeds very early on, I give it to Berserk.
I have earned a lot of trust.
It has. The only person who's better at it is George Morikawa.
I don't know who that is.
A friend of Kintaro Miura, he makes a very good boxing manga. Is it the greatest work of fantasy you've looked at of all time?
No. Is it a good boxing manga? Yes.
But that's not that's from my other podcast where I talk about the one boxing manga I enjoy, Hajime no Ippo.
Duncan, that was it. Technically speaking, it's not the end of the book.
That's like an eighth to go.
But this is definitely the end of this section.
The bit about the trolls.
It's probably the most shaping moment of Berserk where it turns from one thing into something else.
It was low fantasy.
Now it's definitely high fantasy.
A motif that is brought up again and again and again in the Griffith section, but also a bit in Guts' section, is the idea that,
hey, this is like a fairy tale.
This is a moment out of legend.
We're in a moment of myth.
The idea of fantasy.
Yes, fantasy is really important to this section.
That which people believe the monsters they're afraid of are coming true.
Now, the hero they desire is also being manifested by fantasy.
Oh, what a dark twist to put on things.
Who is the hero they desire?
Well, it's the hero which they want but not the one they deserve or something.
I don't know.
It's that piece of shit, Griffith.
Duncan, are you sure you don't want to read the rest of Holy Evil War this year?
I don't think my wallet could handle it, Geordie.
Fair enough.
It's a lengthy section and the next part is not as coherent as this one.
Like, there's no like, yes, this is about fighting trolls.
The next section is like a bunch of stuff.
To my money, folks, the next section is when they get on the boat.
That's where the next section ends.
I have heard so much about this boat.
I can't wait for the day I finally get there.
But Geordie, to kind of offer some round-up thoughts on the trolls section,
I definitely felt that this was a change.
We were moving away from any semblance of the Lone Swordsmen.
And although it does look different and it feels different, it's high fantasy now,
in many respects I feel like we were building back into what the Golden Age was.
We were giving Guts that support network, this new family,
in the same way that Griffith was putting together his new band with the Hawk.
Thank you for bringing up the parallels, which is absolutely there.
I will say this, you talk about going back to the Golden Age and abandoning the Hawk.
There was never a section where like, Judeau was fighting by himself, you know?
That was always in tandem with Guts.
It was always Guts in the lead.
You never had a section, I guess the only place where you could argue that it's different
is the bits where Casca was fighting by herself, like against a whale knight dude or whatever.
Or a whale knight dude's brother, who's a jerk.
But yeah, I see your point.
There is some parallelism there, but there is a much greater emphasis on the actual character of Guts' allies.
And to be honest, that's a positive change.
I feel much more connected to Serpico, Farness and Isidro than I did to Judeau, Pippin and...
Corkus.
Corkus! Well done, Duncan.
Thank you.
No, completely.
Because obviously these characters, I'm presuming, are meant to stick around.
Who can say, Duncan? Who can say? Anything could happen.
No, I really did enjoy this arc and I am happy the direction it's going because I don't think
I could imagine Berserk maintaining what it was going forward.
Like, it needed to expand out.
It needed to feel like something that I could latch onto multiple characters and continue on.
Because you want to pace things out.
It's good to have other characters there who have their own developments.
While Guts and Casca are sort of being held at one point for a time.
And it's healing.
I love the... yeah. Absolutely, it is.
Guts is letting people in.
In a weird way. For the reader as well.
Like, you're trying to move over from this major dark influence over much of the series.
I think what I particularly enjoyed about this arc though, to be honest though, more than anything,
is what it sets up.
This is what I remember it for.
I'm not going to really remember them fighting the trolls.
Which is quite an... you know, it's an extensive bit of the page count.
Yeah. It's a lot of time spent fighting trolls.
And the spits... listen, it's been dark enough already, but I actually think the section where you get
into the trolls den and you see what they do to the captive women, it's so disgusting.
And it really just... it's so over the top.
And I hate it. I think it's one of the worst parts of Berserk.
I like...
To be honest, it put me in mind of whoever that character was, what?
At the end of the Golden Age. I can't even remember his name now.
The little... the demon dude?
The demon dude? Oh, right, you mean Wyld.
Wyld. Ugh.
He is gross.
These trolls just needed to eat people.
Yeah, totally.
It didn't add to the narrative. This is an issue I have in Berserk.
Like, Berserk hasn't fully shaken off, showing me something horrible,
what feels like just for disgust.
Like, just for shock value.
Like, the eclipse is the big moment, but the eclipse drives so much.
This still felt like a little bit of dirt. Like, you didn't need this.
I agree that I don't need it, but it really is just pretty essential to what Berserk is.
Like, it's never gonna go away.
Whether it's this or it's the horse, these are some of the moments that's just like...
It doesn't fly with me anymore.
I said at the start of the episode, Berserk is one of my favourite pieces of fiction of all time,
and it will always be my problematic fave.
You know, there's parts in it which I really dislike.
I've just been mentioning one of them now.
And when we come to meet... when we meet our top 50,
well, guess what? No part of Berserk was number one.
Nothing of you made it to the top five.
I've, you know, I've changed a lot over the years.
And I've read a lot more fantasy because I do a podcast about it,
and that's changed the way I feel about it as well.
But the fact is, the sections that stood out to me that I really tuned into
and paid more attention to than I've neglected before,
like Serpico's backstory and the lore dump with Flora the Witch,
I love them so much. This is such an amazing story.
It is, and I really enjoy the characters.
I think it speaks to a lot that at this point, I want more Asidro.
Like, I want him to get given more stuff.
I want to see this cast of characters be able to interact with each other
and bounce off each other in different scenarios.
That's what I'm kind of looking forward to going forward.
Yes, they've now got magical items. Cool.
That will expand the type of action scenes we're going to get.
I'm excited for that. I'm excited to see Guts' relationship with the Berserker armour.
I suddenly get the impression going forward, based on what you said,
that we're going to kind of slide back more into that dark political fantasy realm
if we're looking at Griffith and his war and his journey a bit more.
And I'm actually quite interested to know what Guts and the guys do.
Do they keep on this episodic journey?
Like, they're heading towards a boat,
but what do they stop off and do in between?
I don't know. I'm excited to see.
I'm excited to see you see it too, Dunc.
That's probably the thing I'm looking forward to the most about this direct next section,
seeing whether your ideas about what's coming next is coming.
To conclude, Berserk is still one of the best pieces of fantasy media ever made.
People should read it. That is all. Don't watch the anime.
To add to that, be well aware of the trigger warnings that were probably at the start of this episode
and every episode relating to Berserk.
Oh yeah.
It is not light. I do not blame anyone who does not want to expose themselves to some of the content in here.
Fair play. Moments I didn't want to expose myself to it.
I think what's here is good and was worth it for me to push through.
I recommend Berserk, the troll arc, to anyone who has read the previous arcs.
If you liked Berserk, you will continue to like Berserk.
I don't think this arc, while it does change things up, does nothing drastic enough that could ever, I think,
shake someone who was already invested in this.
With that in mind, if you are a Berserk fan, and I sure hope we got Berserk fans listening to this
and they aren't too mad at me for my strong feelings about certain characters,
reach out to us on isthisjustfantasypodcast@gmail.com or on our Instagram, @isthisjustfantasypodcast,
with our taste. How do you feel about the troll arc? Where do you think it stands?
How do you feel about that big shift between low to high fantasy?
I think, personally, that it bears that in time, and I think most people agree that Schierke is one of the best characters in Berserk.
Spoiler Duncan. She's great.
I want to see, do people agree with that?
Or are some people out there who are like, I hated this, I think it never actually got back to being what it should be?
I think the interesting thing about Berserk is that the simple argument, what Berserk should be,
must be so personal, because Berserk is so many different things.
There is, you know, the Black Swordsman is not Golden Age.
Golden Age was not Conviction, and Conviction is not what this arc was.
Each arc has a very distinct flavour, and I completely understand how any one person
could look at one of those arcs and go, no, that was my favourite. I wish I just had more of that.
Duncan, how do you feel about the fact that, although we've talked about this being the troll bit and the Holy Evil War section,
that actually, when you translate it properly and you don't get abashed about it,
that this section of the story is called the Millennium Falcon arc?
So, the Yoda references are on point?
I guess so. It's the longest Star Wars joke, probably in any piece of fiction.
I'm assuming the Falcon is Griffith and the Millennium is like his forthcoming.
Who can say?
Something like that.
I've been your host, Geordie Bailey.
And I've been your other host, Duncan Nicoll. Till next time.
Till next time. So long.
Bye.