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Hello and welcome to a prelude to an episode of Is This Just Fantasy.

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So, we are supposed to be reading, rating and reviewing Priory of the Orange Tree.

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That is not happening this week.

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Maybe never.

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Duncan and I have both been in the process of reading it over the course of taking some

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holiday and so far neither of us has finished it.

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It's been about a month and we just can't do it.

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I'm about halfway through, Duncan is about a third of the way through if I'm generous

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and we really don't think we're going to be able to finish this one.

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It would be the first time that neither of us has managed to start and finish a book

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on the podcast and it would be disappointing if that was to take place so I'm going to

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try and muscle through.

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But yeah, this is a pretty big failure on our part to not give a too great a summary

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of it because, you know, we want to save that for review if it comes to exist.

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But it's quite boring.

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We don't like it.

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That's sad because apparently it's really good.

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It's very well rated.

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I don't know why we dislike it so much.

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However, in the meantime, we're going to have two episodes for you.

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First things first, you'll be having this current episode, which is one we've been thinking

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about doing for a while and which Duncan is very excited about and I am too.

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That is a history of Conan the Barbarian and how it got sort of taken over by artists after

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Robert E. Howard's death.

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It's genuinely really funny and fascinating in places.

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And our next recording is going to be on The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle and that is

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also one Duncan and I have been really excited about doing for a long time.

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So without further ado, this episode's a cracker.

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I hope you enjoy, so long.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of Is This Just Fantasy?

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The podcast where every other week two nerds normally get together to rate, read and review

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a fantasy novel.

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I'm your host, Geordie Bailey.

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And I'm his good friend and Conan the Barbarian super fan, Duncan Nicoll.

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And as I implied in the intro, Duncan, this is a special bonus episode.

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We are not reading, rating or reviewing a fantasy novel.

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I mean, I guess you probably have in the past two weeks.

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I haven't had to do anything to prepare for this one and I'm really chuffed about that.

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That's absolutely right, Geordie.

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Listeners, this is a special episode.

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We got a question.

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We love it when we hear from you on either Instagram, Is This Just Fantasy Podcast or on

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our Gmail, isthisjustfantasypodcast@gmail.com and we got a question that just, oh, it just

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hit my special interest.

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I just read this and I went, I have so much I want to say.

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God damn it, I'm doing a whole bonus episode on it because this is my like special subject.

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So that's on Mastermind.

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This is what I pick.

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And for folks listening in countries that are not the United Kingdom, Mastermind is

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a TV show where people, instead of being asked like general knowledge or something like Jeopardy,

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they have to start off by, they get to pick the subject they get quizzed on, which means

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you get like really advanced specific questions.

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And then just in case you think you're too good at that, they do make you do general

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knowledge of that and that's the worst round.

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It's so much less interesting.

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It's really heartbreaking when someone actually isn't good at their special interest.

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I know.

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It's just like, why?

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You could have picked anything and you clearly don't know a lot about it.

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I saw a guy once who picked Tintin as his like special interest and I was like nailing

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it question after question.

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I was like, how do you not know this?

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The highest score I ever saw on that show actually was for Stephen King's Dark Tower.

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Like this woman was amazing at it.

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Like fully answered before the question was done, just racking up the points.

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And she got a whole nine points because it's really hard to score well at Mastermind.

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So Geordie, as we start every episode, before we get into the main content, have you read

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any other books you want to talk about or seen anything fantasy related?

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No, I haven't.

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Have you?

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No.

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Okay, on with the episode.

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Perfect.

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But what was the question for today, people?

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It's probably somehow abbreviating the title of the episode, but to hear it again from

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our excellent listener, Kielhouser, I hope that's how you pronounce it.

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We had this question.

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I have an arbitrary request.

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I'm fond of Conan, minus the racism.

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Good for you, mate.

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And I've read much of the Howard Conan material, but I'm curious about the additional material.

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I wonder if Duncan might be able to make a few suggestions where one might begin to explore

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the rest.

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And now this is something I know, Duncan, you're interested in because I much like our dear

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pal, Kielhouser, I'm also a fan of Howard's Conan the Barbarian, but I haven't actually

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read much of the supplementary material either.

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You know, I've read all but one of the original stories.

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I've never actually finished Out of the Dragon.

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I've read like some comic book adaptations, some of the Marvel, some of the Titan, a lot

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of the Dark Horse, but that's kind of where it ends for me.

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And I do consider myself a pretty advanced Conan fan.

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And see, Geordie, you're already a fan.

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I'm sure a lot of our listeners haven't read Conan yet.

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And I think, do you feel that?

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I feel a lot of fantasy readers, particularly in the present day, haven't gone back and

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read Conan the Barbarian by Robert E. Howard, despite maybe the influences had on the genre.

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It's probably not the most actually well read piece.

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No, I mean, for sure.

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It wasn't well read in its time and it isn't well read now, but it is so influential, so

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much for stuff.

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You know, the DNA of modern fantasy has its origin in Conan.

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And so, Duncan, what I think you're putting down is what before we answer the actual question

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about supplemental material, we should sort of make a case for reading Conan itself, right?

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Absolutely.

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Why should you care about me going on about the extra works written about Conan if you

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have no interest in reading the original?

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And you should always start at the original.

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I would lay that down happily.

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So yes, why should you read Conan by Robert E. Howard?

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Because as alluded to in that original question, it has some problems.

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It was written in the 1930s.

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It is dated.

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There are some very unpleasant aspects there, but there are some real nuggets in there as

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well.

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So, Geordie, one fan to another, why would you read Conan the Barbarian?

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So first things first, they're just well written, man.

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Like even they really hold up aside from like, we have to keep saying, aside from the racism

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and like the sexism and stuff.

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And it's really bad.

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Like if you go back and listen to our episode on Red Nails, we are shocked by how racist

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it is as fans of that story.

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Like we like it.

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And we're like, holy shit, this is so much worse than I remember.

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It's just so exciting.

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The sword fights, the adventure, it's so fast paced and there's so much excitement and grit

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to it.

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I go back and I read the story Black Colossus all the time because I just love the final

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battle and how dramatic it is.

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It's so cinematic.

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And I think there's so much to be, so much kind of kudos to be given to one, this sort

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of era of short stories.

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So many people, big fan, big series Game of Thrones, Wheel of Time, Dark Tower, like big

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thick books, big thick epic fantasy.

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This is heroic fantasy.

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Prior the Orange Tree.

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That's an example.

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It's really nice to read somewhere an author's like, no, eight pages, I'm going to deliver.

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No time wasting here.

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And also another reason why I recommend to people, one of the reasons I actually got

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into it to begin with is the fact that talking about big influences on fantasy, who's probably

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the biggest influence on modern fantasy, Geordie, of the last hundred years.

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J.R.R Tolkien.

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Absolutely.

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His shadow is everywhere, either because people are following him or people feel like they're

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consciously trying to be contrary to him.

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He has built the mould for which so many fantasy races are drawn from these days.

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And if you're ever thinking, gosh, I really want to get out of the shadow.

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I want to see something that doesn't have this influence.

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Then you've got to go back before him.

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I think it's impossible to read something written after him and not see that influence.

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And that's what Conan the Barbarian does, what reading Robert E. Howard does.

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You're like, this is pre Tolkien.

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The rules aren't set.

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And a big factor in Conan is that it's meant to be a prehistory world.

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It's a fantasy setting, but oh no, it's prehistory because the idea was just doing

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another world, secondary world fantasy, was not really a thing.

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And the funny thing is, is that one of the people who Carys on an influence that might

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have had, Lord of the Rings.

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Lord of the Rings, as fantastical as it is, that's also prehistory.

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That's set in our ancient past.

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But now we're getting bogged down.

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Yes, the Conan stories are great.

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You should read Tower of the Elephant.

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You should read Black Colossus.

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And then after you read those two, The World is an Oyster.

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Go out, read it, get the complete Chronicle of Conan.

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It's the big black book.

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It's a really good value for money.

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We've made our case there, I think.

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This is uncharted territory for me.

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Like I've heard you talk about pastiche material many times before.

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But I still really don't know much about how I should read it or if I should and what

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is worth reading.

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That's quite the question.

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So I'm going to break this down.

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I'm going to break this down for people.

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And I do think even if you haven't read the Conan stories, this is a fun journey through

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like different publishers, different rights, ownerships.

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If you just have any kind of curious interest in how franchises can be built and extended

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and moved and added to, this is going to be quite fun, I think.

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At least I think.

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I fucking love it.

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My partner once said to me that I enjoy more learning about how these books came to be

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than sometimes I enjoy reading them.

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What I'm sort of expecting now is sort of like the story of all the various people who

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wrote the Spider-Man and took it over and how they changed it and augmented the character

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over time.

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Am I sort of being fair there?

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Yeah, really true.

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This is the story of so many different authors coming, adding their piece.

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I think we're going to get up to, I think there's something like 12 to 14 different

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authors we're going to be touching on over this.

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And it's still being added to through different mediums and different creative minds.

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But before we kind of take that step, let's just go back a little bit.

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Okay, you're that individual.

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You're Kyle Howser and you're like, Duncan, what do I read now?

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I've read all the works.

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And the first thing I'd actually say is maybe go out and read some more Robert E. Howard.

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Robert E. Howard was a very prolific author.

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He wrote many a heroic hero.

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And if you enjoy Conan, go and read King Cole.

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Yeah, we read Cole like this year, I think.

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And it's a blast.

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I'd never read any Cole before, aside from a comic book adaptation.

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And I had an amazing time.

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It really is.

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Go and listen to that episode.

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We talk about him.

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Some people call him the proto-Conan.

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We kind of make the argument, well, maybe he's actually the purer version and that Conan

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was the watered down, mass marketed version.

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Not only did Robert E. Howard write King Cole, he also wrote other fantasy heroes, including

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Solomon Kane, his sort of 17th century Puritan, who goes on all sorts of more sort of traditionally

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Gothic adventures, but also dips into that Cthulhu element.

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So let's start on this journey, Geordie.

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1930s tragic early death of Robert E. Howard.

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And all his works at the time had been written and released in pulp.

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Weird tales, adventure tales, pulp fiction in the truest form.

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Cheap to print, disposable.

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Not meant to be saved, like meant to be thrown away and forgotten.

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It's not meant to be put into a book in the future.

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Completely.

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And they don't see print for, again, for maybe 15 to 20 years.

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Completely off into obscurity.

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And then a gentleman comes along, and I'm so sorry for ruining his name.

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I'm going to try and pronounce his first name, and then I may just call him by his last name

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for the rest of this episode.

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L. Spra-gooey de Camp.

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Sprague.

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Like Prague.

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Thank you, Geordie.

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Future Geordie: No thank you, Geordie.

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Very incorrect, Geordie.

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So I could not have possibly imagined this.

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It's not Spragooey, nor is it S-prague.

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I really wish I'd looked it up in advance of the episode or paused to check then, but

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who could have thought it was Spray-ge?

238
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:09,760
That's... anyway.

239
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,480
I'm also just like not clear.

240
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:12,480
It could be Comp.

241
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:13,480
It could be Comp.

242
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,320
But I'm pretty sure it's Camp.

243
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,960
L. Sprague de Camp.

244
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:19,960
Maybe Comp.

245
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,640
Duncan: I will be calling into Camp because that's how it's been in my head, but Geordie probably

246
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,560
has the right way of it.

247
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:29,680
This gentleman comes along and he speaks to the Howard Estate and he's like, can I republish

248
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:30,680
these?

249
00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:31,680
Can I repackage them and publish them?

250
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:32,680
Future Geordie back again.

251
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:39,200
Boy, there sure are a lot of corrections in this episode when we're trying to be informative

252
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,760
and correct.

253
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,960
Duncan has asked me to correctly attribute the person who inherited the Howard Estate

254
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,200
because it wasn't actually Sprague de Camp.

255
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,760
It was Glen Lord who got the rights.

256
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,120
He just let de Camp use them.

257
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,520
So yes, that is another correction.

258
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,360
I hope there won't be any more.

259
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:06,160
And he goes to known press and over the course of the 1950s we get all of Robert E. Howard's

260
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,640
Conan stories once again put out in bound hardbacks.

261
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,240
Are they major hits?

262
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,960
Do they take good literary world by storm?

263
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:21,960
The highest print number for one of these hardbacks was 3000.

264
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,920
It's not terrible given the time period, given the lack of press.

265
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,080
It's not like the modern day where you sell a million copies.

266
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,960
So yeah, that's probably not a major disaster, but it's not a hit.

267
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,040
It's not a revolution.

268
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,880
It's certainly the idea of...

269
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,720
That's probably more than the original run of Lord of the Rings sold in America.

270
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,280
I think that might be true.

271
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,280
That is shocking to actually discover that is true.

272
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,760
But it was still very much compiled by a fan for the fans.

273
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,600
Remember this is like 15, 20 years later.

274
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,800
This is for like the young men who grew up with these pulp fiction stories now wanting

275
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,680
a hard cover to like store, read again in their older age.

276
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,080
That's certainly how I see it.

277
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:11,720
But lo and behold, oh, also fun fact, one of the known books was called Conan the Barbarian,

278
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:12,720
one of the collections.

279
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,440
And this is actually the first time that the name Conan the Barbarian was applied to the

280
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,440
character.

281
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,880
Robert E. Howard never did it.

282
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,720
It was for this collection.

283
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,480
And these stories were also put in chronological order, or at least decamped chronological order

284
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:28,880
for the first time.

285
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,480
But something then happened.

286
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:31,480
Right.

287
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:37,000
So these come out, there's like five of them to collect all the stories.

288
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:42,640
But then a fan, Geordie, a fan from...

289
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,840
And I'm really sorry, he's from, I believe it was the Netherlands.

290
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:53,040
This guy, Bjorn Nyberg.

291
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,040
He was actually Swedish.

292
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,040
His name was Ny-Bur-y.

293
00:15:55,040 --> 00:16:01,000
But the pronunciation in English is Nyberg.

294
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,000
He likes Conan.

295
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,000
He likes him a lot.

296
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,720
So he writes a fanfic.

297
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,800
As one does, and he put it up on archive.org.

298
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,560
He wrote a fanfic called The Return of Conan.

299
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,240
And he even has a self insert character in it.

300
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,160
Like how cringy is that?

301
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,880
Never would have done that myself.

302
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:26,400
But he writes it and he sends it to De Camp, who currently owns, obviously, is looking

303
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,000
after the rights to Conan.

304
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,320
And De Camp goes, yeah, that's pretty good.

305
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:31,760
Shall we publish it?

306
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:32,760
And that was it.

307
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,960
That was the first ever officially licensed, and if I was to wear first ever, obviously,

308
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,680
a fan writer could have written something anyway and kept it in their attic.

309
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,720
Conan the Barbarian story, not written by Robert E. Howard.

310
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:45,720
Right.

311
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,320
So this is really interesting.

312
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:53,080
And obviously, I'm sure people who listen to this now, you know, this is a podcast about

313
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,440
fantasy literature, probably big fans, probably big literature fans, and would be aware that

314
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,960
this is pretty weird.

315
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,520
That doesn't happen that often.

316
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:08,800
You know, fan works, for one thing, are in a legally grey area.

317
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,600
And when I say legally grey area, they are pretty much all illegal.

318
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,920
But everyone knows you kind of just be a dick if you stomped on them, so we don't.

319
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,880
It's like jaywalking in America.

320
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,360
It is illegal, not enforced.

321
00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:23,680
I know, it's so odd.

322
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,400
When people talk about writing for a franchise now, it's like, yeah, you just have to be

323
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,540
an established author and they will, like, invite you.

324
00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:32,800
This guy just sent his book in and went, what do you think?

325
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,080
And the rights holder just went, cool.

326
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,360
It's official.

327
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:37,360
Well done.

328
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:38,360
Is it any good?

329
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:39,360
The return of Conan?

330
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:40,360
It's...

331
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:41,360
Yeah.

332
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:42,720
...Germany not one of the worst.

333
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,280
I actually think it's okay.

334
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:49,240
He clearly has a love for the character and it often reads, I would say, more like a direct

335
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:54,000
sequel to The Owl of the Dragon, which, by the way, was retitled and known press to Conan

336
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,440
the Conqueror, and it keeps that title for, like, the next 70 years.

337
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,120
Well, 50 at least.

338
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:01,120
Really?

339
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:02,120
That's very strange.

340
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:03,120
Very strange.

341
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:04,960
And... but it seems to be moving.

342
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,800
Then again, I don't remember there being any dragons in that story.

343
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,640
The Owl of the Dragon refers to the fact that the neighbouring country's flag is a dragon,

344
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,920
so The Owl of the Dragon is referring to the time that their flag flew above Conan's country.

345
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,280
Okay, fair enough.

346
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:23,840
So it'd be like if we named the story The Owl of the Fleur de Lys.

347
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:24,840
Exactly.

348
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:25,840
Ish.

349
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:26,840
The Reign of the Lions.

350
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,880
I mean, there is actually three hearts, three lions.

351
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:30,880
Yes.

352
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,000
Well, we'll get into that sometime.

353
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,000
That's probably connected to Conan.

354
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,000
Oh, yes, it is.

355
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,000
We'll get to that later.

356
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,120
Well, we can't get distracted or anything anymore.

357
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:43,720
Okay, return of Conan and then I'm assuming that's going to open a floodgate.

358
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,920
Other fans are going to say, oh my god, I've been writing fan fiction on archive.org for

359
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,600
years, now I can make money off of it?

360
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:52,600
Hell yeah.

361
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:53,600
Not quite.

362
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:59,720
It's still a little bit as the trickle started and De Camp then sees that this sells well.

363
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,720
And so he goes back and he looks at the Conan stories.

364
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:03,720
But what more?

365
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,460
He goes back and looks at the non-Conan stories written by Robert E. Howard.

366
00:19:07,460 --> 00:19:13,400
And he thinks, wow, these aren't going to sell because they're not Conan.

367
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,200
I can change that.

368
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,000
And so De Camp puts out a collection called The Tales of Conan, where he took, I think

369
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:25,680
it was five separate stories of other Robert E characters from across time periods, somewhere

370
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:32,280
like Crusader heroes, somewhere like set in Afghanistan, like the 1800s.

371
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,960
And he rewrote them to be Conan stories in the Hyborian age.

372
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,760
Oh, wait, hang on, what?

373
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,800
That sounds super immoral.

374
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:46,720
Well, rewriting another author's work and publishing it.

375
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:54,600
Yeah, going back and taking a dead, quite forgotten author who died tragically, taking

376
00:19:54,600 --> 00:20:00,880
their work and repackaging it to make it more palatable to a mainstream audience.

377
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,580
That's disgusting.

378
00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:06,120
Hold on to that thought, Geordie, because I have a really complicated relationship with

379
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:08,840
De Camp and what he did to Robert E. Howard's work.

380
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,200
Because on one hand, he did that and he did that a lot.

381
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,520
On the other hand, there is a strong argument that maybe the world wouldn't remember Conan

382
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,200
the Barbarian without him.

383
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:21,760
Sure, I hear what you're saying.

384
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:27,280
I'm a fan of Star Trek and I have a complicated relationship with both Gene Roddenberry and

385
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:34,520
Rick Berman, because Gene Roddenberry, much like Robert E. Howard, is the damaged genius

386
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:43,160
who created a classic story, which is still going today, but has a lot of gross, outdated

387
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,280
elements and had a problematic life in of himself.

388
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,560
And then you have someone else who comes in the future.

389
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:57,000
So Rick Berman comes along, he picks up Gene Roddenberry's legacy and he keeps it alive.

390
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:05,000
But he also is a jerk, like a huge jerk, and in some ways bastardizes what remains.

391
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,880
And then he makes a Phantom Menace too, which is just a real kick in the teeth.

392
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:10,880
Yikes.

393
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,880
I spanned to say De Camp does nothing that bad, but I'm not quite sure of those words.

394
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,440
But let's continue with our story, Geordie.

395
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,400
We're in the 1950s.

396
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,600
These are selling, you know, 3,000?

397
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,080
That's the biggest seller.

398
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,960
Some are as low as one and a half.

399
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,920
I think there might be one which didn't break the thousand mark.

400
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,920
This is still very niche.

401
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:37,160
But in 1966, Lancer comes along, publishing house.

402
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:38,160
They like the look.

403
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,760
There's an idea.

404
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:40,760
You don't need big hardbacks.

405
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:41,760
They're difficult.

406
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:42,760
They're expensive.

407
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,760
We're going to go paperback.

408
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,960
We're going to get a little known artist on board called Frank Frazetta.

409
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,040
Yes, now we're talking, Frank Frazetta.

410
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,200
Frank Frazetta defined the look of Conan.

411
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,720
Before Frank Frazetta came along, if you looked at an image of Conan, he looked like some

412
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,800
sort of centurion in half the images.

413
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:12,440
Very almost 1920s idea of what just a leading actor would look like.

414
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:17,080
Folks, if you don't recognise the name Frank Frazetta, you do recognise the look.

415
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,220
He's one of the most iconic, popular artists of the 20th century.

416
00:22:22,220 --> 00:22:30,840
He has this real great reverence for muscular physiques and skimpy cad damns into distress.

417
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:38,000
You could equally see him drawing a half naked barbarian and an astronaut with a ray gun.

418
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,520
If you can try and find the middle ground between those images, yes, you're imagining

419
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:43,520
Frank Frazetta.

420
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,800
To be quite honest, if you take one thing away from this episode and you're like, I'm

421
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,960
still not interested in reading Conan, just go and Google Frank Frazetta and spend some

422
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,640
time looking at his artwork.

423
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,880
Because I bet you, that's a good way to spend half an hour.

424
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,160
You will see his influence or you will see one thing and be like, I've seen that before.

425
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,880
But he comes in, they start doing paperbacks.

426
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,440
Another Sawyer's Swordsman author, a guy called Lyn Carter, he gets brought into the fold

427
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,160
with De Camp and Nyberg.

428
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,480
Nyberg doesn't go away.

429
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,640
He continues to work with them and writes other short stories.

430
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,680
And they produce the Lancer series.

431
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,880
Now the Lancer series covers, I believe, 12 books.

432
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:26,480
Geordie, if the known press series, 3000, was good, do you want to know the numbers for

433
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,000
like Lancer, just order of magnitude?

434
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,600
Ah, sure.

435
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,600
What is it?

436
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:32,600
It's multiple millions.

437
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:33,600
It's-

438
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:34,600
Whoa!

439
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:40,160
In 1969, the Conan Lancer series was second only to Lord of the Rings in terms of fantasy

440
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,640
series sales.

441
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:42,640
Really?

442
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,640
That's crazy!

443
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,960
It was an insane spike.

444
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:52,760
Duncan, you introduced me to the world of Conan the Barbarian.

445
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:58,640
Eight years ago in 2016, I had no idea that even nearly close to one million copies of

446
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,480
Conan had ever been sold.

447
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:01,480
It's incredible.

448
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:07,560
I think you look at the numbers and obviously this is the wildest back in the 1960s, but

449
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,400
you're like, how did this hit such a range?

450
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:11,760
And then so slow off.

451
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,880
You think about it, Conan got a movie adaptation before Lord of the Rings was off the ground.

452
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,040
Like, this was a known property, this sold.

453
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:25,120
Yes, and recognisable names are always key to what gets made in Hollywood.

454
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:26,600
I want to just check in though, Duncan.

455
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,120
We're talking about the Lancer series.

456
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:35,760
Is this re- are these reprintings of Robert E. Howard or are we talking about fan fictions,

457
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:36,760
pastiche stories?

458
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,400
So we're talking about both.

459
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,860
So in this era, we get re-releases of all Robert E. Howard's works again.

460
00:24:42,860 --> 00:24:47,760
Once again, put into a De Camp approved chronological order.

461
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:56,000
And also the tales of Conan stories are a little bit sneakily just fitted in now with the Robert

462
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,000
E. Howard ones.

463
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:03,760
A lot of these books go by the title of like Conan the Adventurer by Robert E. Howard and

464
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,760
then it'll just go edited by De Camp.

465
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,120
Yes, yes.

466
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:13,080
You told me about this in the Cole episode about how like some of the Cole stories, it

467
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,600
would just say like, what was it exactly said like?

468
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:22,400
Yeah, it's so like I said, they always- their names would be edited by, but edited by sometimes

469
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,080
means fully rewriting ends of stories.

470
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,880
Taking half stories and writing the new endings.

471
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:29,880
It's insane.

472
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:30,880
Right.

473
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:39,000
And you said in the Cole episode that like De Camp wrote like a new backstory for Cole

474
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:45,680
and then did like a huge paragraph in the opening page, like making up this old story

475
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,440
that Robert E. Howard didn't come up with, right?

476
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,880
In that particular case, it was Lin Carter.

477
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,440
But yes, exactly that.

478
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,520
They used to do between the short stories, they'd write like little paragraphs that'd

479
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,080
be like, this is what Conan did between this time and this time.

480
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,240
To try to build this sort of continuous narrative.

481
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,960
You know, this is the year where Thoth Amon became like the main villain of Conan.

482
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:07,960
Sure.

483
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,140
Now, a few new stories were written at this time.

484
00:26:12,140 --> 00:26:17,360
We had one book by Lin Carter called Conan of the Isle, where this is the oldest Conan

485
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:18,360
we ever see.

486
00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:23,000
This is Conan when he finally leaves the throne, where he ends up at the end of the Robert E.

487
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,160
Howard stories and goes off on new adventures.

488
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,160
Old man Conan.

489
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,320
Yep, sailing the seas, heading out for the Americas of the Hyborian Age.

490
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,000
We also get a really cool pirating story in Conan the Buccaneer.

491
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,240
We also get Conan of Aquilonia, which I actually really like.

492
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,880
This is a series of short stories with Conan and his son, Con.

493
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,720
Dean daddy and son for four stories.

494
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:48,720
Okay.

495
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:49,720
Okay.

496
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,400
So I'm getting a picture here.

497
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:57,440
This is where they're just writing new stories, Lin Carter and De Camp and this other guy,

498
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,440
this Dutch guy, they're writing him up.

499
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,280
So how long does that go on for then?

500
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,940
And also, is any of it worth reading?

501
00:27:04,940 --> 00:27:08,440
So this goes from like 66 or even through to 77.

502
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,080
Bear in mind, in this time period, this is when the comic books start.

503
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:17,400
In 1970, like coming off 96, where it's like the second highest fantasy series of all time,

504
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,040
Marvel, guy called Roy Thomas is like, we need to get in on that.

505
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,440
But yes, back to what ones are worth reading.

506
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:23,440
Great question.

507
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,120
Roy Thompson is already working on this.

508
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:26,120
Yeah.

509
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:27,120
Okay.

510
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,640
I'm going to jump in here and I say, so I know the name Roy Thompson, because I'm pretty

511
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,640
sure he's still working on Conan today, right?

512
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:33,640
Yeah.

513
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,540
Roy Thomas, he was an editor at Marvel in the 1970s.

514
00:27:37,540 --> 00:27:44,200
He wrote, I believe more in terms of actual page count, he probably has written more Conan

515
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,760
Pastiche work than any other man alive.

516
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,440
But he did it all in comics.

517
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,800
And to this day, bear in mind, it's been 54 years since he first wrote Conan.

518
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:59,240
He is still often brought in by the comic book publishers as like a guest writer.

519
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,240
It's very prestigious.

520
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,520
When Roy Thomas steps in, you're like, okay, now the king's back.

521
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,600
Let's see how he's going to do it.

522
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:12,520
So this is really fascinating because we've gotten on like 40 years from the death of

523
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,980
Robert E. Howard.

524
00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:17,840
And now it seems like it's changed hands twice.

525
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:24,920
We've got a De Camp era and it's a long period of time, 40 years to be writing another author's

526
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:25,920
work.

527
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:32,120
I was moaning about, I was moaning at our dude episode about Brian Herbert taking over

528
00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:33,400
from Frank.

529
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,640
This is so much, this is so much worse.

530
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,360
Oh, De Camp goes right up to the 82 film.

531
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:45,320
De Camp writes the novelization of the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie script.

532
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,320
Like he is there-

533
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,320
50 years.

534
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,320
Yeah, 30 years.

535
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,440
He really gets involved in the 50s with the known presses like being collected.

536
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,760
And then he stays heavily involved up to the early 1980s.

537
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,880
Okay, fair enough.

538
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,040
But he was the rights owner.

539
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,200
He was managing the IP.

540
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:08,080
When Roy Thomas wanted to make Conan comics, he had to go to De Camp and be like, hi, we

541
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,880
can offer you this much an issue.

542
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:10,880
Fun story, apparently.

543
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:11,880
Let's-

544
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:12,880
Yeah, sorry, we're getting off track.

545
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:13,880
What stories?

546
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:14,880
What-

547
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:15,880
Yes.

548
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,800
So, we've got an era here.

549
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:25,640
From in the 1950s up to the 1970s, this is where Link Carter and Sprague De Camp and

550
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,620
some guy in Holland are writing past these stories.

551
00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:32,080
We haven't gone to the comic books yet.

552
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,440
Is there anything good for fans of Conan to check out in that period?

553
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:38,440
Not massively.

554
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:44,240
And I'm going to say that sounds really mean of me, but I genuinely feel like this isn't

555
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,480
the golden age.

556
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,200
No offense to De Camp and Link Carter, but I just don't think they were quite the hottest

557
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,200
authors.

558
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,560
I think Return of Conan is very interesting to read from the...

559
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:56,560
It's the start.

560
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,480
It's the spark that sets the fire.

561
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:08,640
I also really do enjoy the Conan of the Isles book, just because it goes so left field in

562
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,760
weird and bizarre.

563
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,480
It kind of has its own fun campy charm.

564
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,320
I once tried to explain it to someone when I'm reading this book, I'm not seeing the

565
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,320
monsters.

566
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:27,120
I'm seeing cheesy effects, the seventh voice of Sinbad, effects of these monsters in my

567
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,120
head, because it's just got that weird vibe.

568
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,120
But I don't think this is the golden age for Conan.

569
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,240
Just not quite yet.

570
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,360
Not in Lancer, not in 1977.

571
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:40,640
We've just got to go a little bit further, Geordie, just to the next era before we actually

572
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,280
get works that I think people should start reading.

573
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,280
So what is the next era?

574
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,280
Is it a comic book?

575
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:51,000
No, we're going to stay with the novel, the prose works, and then we'll come back to comics

576
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,000
at the end.

577
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,400
I think that's just the only way to do it.

578
00:30:53,400 --> 00:31:00,600
So Lancer finishes and we move on to Baiten books, 78 to 82.

579
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:01,720
What happens here?

580
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,960
So De Campe and Lin Carter, they've done their era.

581
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,480
They've run out of juice, Geordie.

582
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,920
They need more fuel in the tank.

583
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,760
They need to get fresh blood in.

584
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,960
So in this era, Ace Moroto also had the rights for a little bit.

585
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:15,960
It's quite confusing.

586
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:16,960
I don't really understand it.

587
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,560
Nonetheless, there are new people writing.

588
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:26,360
And this is where they bring in Andrew Offit, Carl Wagner, and good old Paul Anderson of...

589
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,480
Oh, Paul Anderson.

590
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:29,480
There we go.

591
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,520
There's our Three Hearts, Three Lions.

592
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:32,560
Absolutely.

593
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,280
And these guys come in and they write some excellent stories.

594
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,040
Carl Wagner writes Conan and the Road of Kings.

595
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,280
Andrew Offit writes a whole trilogy.

596
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,640
Only the first one do I recommend.

597
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:44,640
Conan and the Sorcerer.

598
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,160
Paul Anderson writes Conan the Rebel, which is the first time I think someone attempts

599
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:54,440
to expand on the era between the chapters in Queen of the Black Coast, where Conan has

600
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,800
this kind of piracy adventure off page.

601
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,200
And finally, De Campe gets what I think to be his hurrah.

602
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:08,960
De Campe, Lin Carter, and Nyberg write Conan the Swordsman, which is one very few...

603
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:09,960
Weirdly, Geordie.

604
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:10,960
Weirdly.

605
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:16,000
So very few times do people write original short story Conan fiction.

606
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,440
This is like the only collection out there where people just...

607
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,440
Okay, so up till now, it'll be novels, these extra stories they're writing?

608
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,080
So there's the Tales of Conan that we mentioned earlier.

609
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:33,160
Conan of Aquilonia is technically marketed as four short stories, but they're four short

610
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,000
stories that follow each other chronologically, like back to back.

611
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,240
It feels like a novel.

612
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,320
I don't care what people claim.

613
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,000
So yeah, this is the first time short stories were back in.

614
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,640
And it's called Conan the Swordsman.

615
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,320
And I really enjoy this.

616
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,320
Mostly because, guess what Geordie, Conan works really well in a short story format.

617
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:52,320
Really?

618
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,320
That's so weird.

619
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:54,320
You'd think it would be...

620
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,320
I know, right?

621
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:56,320
Yeah.

622
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,960
So very few people seem to understand this, or willing to go for this.

623
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:01,800
Maybe it doesn't sell.

624
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,440
Maybe it's just not what the market wanted.

625
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,440
That's basically the same thing.

626
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:09,440
But it's one of the few instances where they just put out a short story collection.

627
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,160
And what I really enjoyed about this short story collection is the fact that they actually

628
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:18,960
do like little sequels or like additions to all the Robert E. Howard stories.

629
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,720
If you enjoy Paul of the Black Ones, then we've got Jem in the Tower, which is him with

630
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,280
the pirate crew just before that adventure.

631
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:31,400
If you enjoyed Man-Eaters of Zambolla, because I don't know, you have issues, then you'll

632
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,040
really enjoy Sarl Khorra.

633
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,880
You have just mentioned the two worst Conan stories back to back.

634
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,360
But like the Sarl Khorra, I'm really sorry, I'm virtually in that fantasy pronunciation,

635
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:48,360
written by Nyberg, one of my absolute favourites, we get like, there's a story where Conan's

636
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,640
got this magic jewel and he wants to ransom it back to this princess who had it stolen

637
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:53,640
from originally.

638
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,720
But oh no, the princess has been captured and put in a tower.

639
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:58,720
What's Conan going to do?

640
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,920
Well, now he's got to save the Danse and Distress so that he can then take her back to her ancestral

641
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,680
home in Aquilonia and ransom her there and make money that way.

642
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,360
And then so we get like a heist as he breaks into the tower to rescue the princess.

643
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,560
We get a chase scene as he runs to the border.

644
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,840
And we get this like legend style last stand where he can't make it, but he spots some

645
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,400
ruins on the horizon.

646
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,840
And he rides there, puts the princess in a little enclave and goes, wait here.

647
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,880
And he goes up and he takes his stand on the ruined battlements.

648
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,280
And then asks Kron for help.

649
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,640
And he does an answer to hell with him.

650
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,400
Like these are really good stories.

651
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:36,600
So that one you like.

652
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,000
So what so one more time for clarity, what are the stories from that you recommend?

653
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:47,200
I really recommend Angel Ofit’s, Conan the Sorcerer, Carl Ragnar, Conan and the Road of Kings and

654
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:52,880
De Camp, Link Carter and Nyberg's joint effort, Conan the Swordsman.

655
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,040
Really the jewel to their their crown.

656
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,240
Everything that they wrote really came together in that short story collection.

657
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:04,880
I think since we're in the right era and I hate to distract you too much, is this an

658
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,380
opportunity for you to talk about the Conan movie or would you have spent too much time

659
00:35:09,380 --> 00:35:11,880
on that and take up the oxygen of the episode?

660
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,500
No, I can talk about that.

661
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:14,640
This is 82.

662
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:20,280
So this era when this when the publishing these Bateson books, that's when the film

663
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,640
comes out in 82 and we get to the next year.

664
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,680
So yeah, this is exactly when the times speak.

665
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,160
So what is what do you want to know about the film?

666
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,520
I'm also watching it.

667
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,080
I only saw it like this year last year for the first time.

668
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,840
I thought it was enjoyable.

669
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,640
Yeah, I have a really controversial opinion considering my love of the character, but

670
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,360
I actually am just like it's it's OK.

671
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:44,360
Yeah.

672
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,680
It's not really a Conan movie, but it's a pretty good sword and sorcery desert movie.

673
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:49,760
Yeah, I agree.

674
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,560
I think Arnold Schwarzenegger is really fun.

675
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,000
To be honest, I would recommend it to more fans of Arnold Schwarzenegger than I would

676
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,000
fans of Conan the Barbarian.

677
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,920
I think I would say that very easily and quite controversially.

678
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:06,000
I think I enjoyed reading the novelization of the film by De Kamp.

679
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,720
Then I enjoyed watching it because he then takes the time to then work the film into

680
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:13,480
the law like a lot more.

681
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:14,480
I appreciate that.

682
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,720
Yeah, the film was too successful.

683
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:18,680
The character reached new heights.

684
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,200
By the way, the film was very much like the combination of like the millions of books

685
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,800
being sold and the very successful comic book that had been running for a decade at this

686
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:26,800
point.

687
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,320
Not just a comic book, but three simultaneous comic books were coming out.

688
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,960
Yes, you'll get into that later, I suppose.

689
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,800
But that is going to be interesting thing.

690
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:36,800
Right.

691
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:37,800
Deep breath, Geordie.

692
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,400
Little aside, just so you know, if I made any mistakes, please forgive me because I

693
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:49,280
live in the UK and in the UK, all of Lancer, all of Batem and a bit of Tor, which we'll

694
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,840
get to now, weren't actually released by those publishers.

695
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,160
If I look at my shelf, it will just say Sphere.

696
00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:02,520
Sphere Books collected all these series and published them in the UK in their own weird

697
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,320
number ordering system.

698
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,160
So my bookshelf is no help to me when doing this.

699
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,720
I'm specifically talking about a lot of American publishers because they were what were driving

700
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:13,720
it.

701
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:19,240
Duncan, I find it very interesting that you used the word bookshelf because I have been

702
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:22,760
in your office when we were at university together.

703
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,080
And I think you what you really meant is bookshelves, plural.

704
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,000
Yes, that would be correct.

705
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:34,060
I don't think I don't think your partner would have forgiven me if I had let that one slide.

706
00:37:34,060 --> 00:37:35,400
It was a hard time at uni.

707
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,120
I had a very small bookshelf and I did fill up the entire thing with Conan books.

708
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:45,240
And once my partner kindly reorganized my bookshelf to help fit them all better by instead

709
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:52,040
of having the books, you know, like a sane person, like spine running vertically, put

710
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,040
them all into the spines for horizontal.

711
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,920
So I could fit more in.

712
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:02,960
And Jordi, she did this for when I like came home from work and then was like, look, I

713
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:03,960
did this for you.

714
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,520
Let's go have dinner.

715
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:11,440
I had to put my life down halfway through dinner and go, I'm really sorry, but I can't

716
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:17,680
eat knowing that.

717
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,080
I might have some slight issues.

718
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,880
Okay.

719
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,640
Well, that's that's a classic Duncan story right there.

720
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,600
That just is we should really put that should really be the intro to all our episodes, because

721
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,800
then people will just be like, oh, yeah, I know what this podcast is about.

722
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:40,880
So Jordi, let's get on to the next, the biggest jump in our timeline.

723
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,640
We're going to go from 82 to 2004.

724
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:51,440
And in that period, we're going to talk about probably not individually, the 43 Conan the

725
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,640
Barbarian novels put out by Tor Books.

726
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:55,920
Okay.

727
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:03,040
So before you break down 43 separate novels, which is about equivalent to two years of

728
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,480
us doing this podcast and breaking down various novels.

729
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,240
How much time are you going to commit to each one of these?

730
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:12,920
I am not going to go through every novel.

731
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:13,920
Don't you worry.

732
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,040
What I'm going to do is I'm going to break this down by author, because there's a number

733
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:22,400
of authors that kind of took turns during this era, I believe eight in total.

734
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:27,160
So I'm just going to do a little bit for each of them to give an idea of the times and like

735
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,760
what was driving this.

736
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,080
Because this is an insane endeavour.

737
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,760
This is this is like two books a year.

738
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:34,760
Solid.

739
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,840
Or roughly equivalent to one Brandon Sanderson.

740
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:38,840
Absolutely.

741
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,200
I recently found out a little bit more about the Wandering Inn series or the Wandering

742
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,960
Tavern and the insane length of that.

743
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:46,960
And I assume I'm right.

744
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,960
Everything's now in perspective.

745
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:49,960
You're all not long.

746
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:50,960
Don't worry.

747
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,500
I'm sorry, Brandon Sanderson, you were being concise.

748
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:54,960
How could I misjudge you?

749
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,680
So, okay, okay, okay.

750
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,840
So eight authors, eight authors.

751
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,680
Starting off in 82, the movie's out.

752
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:03,680
It's hot.

753
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,920
Tor just got the license and they need fantasy.

754
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:06,920
They need it now.

755
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:07,920
The world wants Conan.

756
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,360
Who are you going to call?

757
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,360
Who?

758
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:12,360
Robert Jordan, obviously.

759
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:17,360
Oh yes, Robert Jordan, of course.

760
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:18,360
Robert Jordan.

761
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,120
To write Conan the Avenger, right?

762
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,720
Actually Conan the Avenger is a retitling of The Return of Conan by Nyberg.

763
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:28,720
But let's not go into that.

764
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:29,720
Motherfucker.

765
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:30,720
Okay, fine.

766
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:31,720
I'll try my best.

767
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:33,040
Conan the Soldier, the Mercenary.

768
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,040
What is it?

769
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,040
Conan the Mercenary was the second in the trilogy by Andrew Offutt.

770
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,040
Oh my god's sake.

771
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,640
What did he write?

772
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:41,760
What did he write?

773
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:47,160
He wrote Conan the Invincible, Conan the Defender, Conan the Unconquered, Conan the Magnificent,

774
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:53,140
Conan the Victorious, Conan the Destroyer novelization, and Conan the Triumphant.

775
00:40:53,140 --> 00:40:54,560
How could you get that wrong, Geordie?

776
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:55,560
And you know what?

777
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:56,560
That's not even in my notes.

778
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,640
That was off the top of my head.

779
00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:59,640
Okay.

780
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,560
Thanks for flexing on me like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

781
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,600
I looked so smug as I was like, it was Conan the Avenger?

782
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,120
I'm on mastermind right now and this is my special topic.

783
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:12,260
Okay.

784
00:41:12,260 --> 00:41:14,500
What a fail on my part.

785
00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:16,680
Seven books, Geordie.

786
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,280
How many years to write seven books?

787
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:24,560
Well Robert Jordan wrote some really big books, so clearly he could write things pretty quick.

788
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,400
Seven books, I'm gonna say five years.

789
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,400
You insult him too.

790
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,520
Oh boy, wow.

791
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,560
He cranked these out and this is very much why he was picked for the job.

792
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:42,080
He wrote a book, I believe it's called Daughters of Attila, and he didn't get picked because

793
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:43,440
of the strength of that book.

794
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,280
He got picked because he wrote it quickly.

795
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:47,280
And I would say-

796
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:48,280
Sure, Isaac Asimov.

797
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,120
If you want to know something about like why I think he managed to do it so quickly, it's

798
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:53,880
that yeah, he wrote seven books.

799
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,800
He maybe wrote two plots.

800
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:57,800
And then just-

801
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:58,800
Okay, because he was very repetitive?

802
00:41:58,800 --> 00:41:59,800
Oh, incredibly so.

803
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:04,000
He had a good formula, to be fair, and this is a formula which a lot of the following

804
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,360
authors would kind of adhere to to a certain extent.

805
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,760
He was very much about, let's make Conan, keep him quite young, keep him in his early

806
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,400
days, as much as you can.

807
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:21,080
Make sure that the villain is a POV character so we can literally just see what his evil

808
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,420
plot's gonna be.

809
00:42:22,420 --> 00:42:25,280
And all the characterization is through his eyes.

810
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,280
And also let's try and make Conan a bit more heroic.

811
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,960
I think this is definitely his Conan is a bit more Superman.

812
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,720
He's got that S on his chest.

813
00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:36,800
He's a little bit more like, I will just go and be the hero.

814
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:37,800
Don't you worry.

815
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:38,800
Wait, hang on.

816
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,120
Duncan, are you telling me that Robert Jordan starts to get a little bit repetitive?

817
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,240
Was Conan tugging on his braid a lot?

818
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:48,640
No, but all the authors know those volcanic blue eyes.

819
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,840
They're the first thing you always describe.

820
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:52,840
So he's heroic now.

821
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:53,840
He's a bit more heroic.

822
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,840
He's not really like a anti-hero character.

823
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,080
And I don't mind it.

824
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,080
It's fine.

825
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,080
He's got the Hyborian age.

826
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,960
He has respect and he's a good writer.

827
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,360
That's a controversial thing to say.

828
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,440
Robert Jordan is a solid writer.

829
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:08,920
He can handle this.

830
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,360
I can't find out in time.

831
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:13,360
Weird of time.

832
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:19,200
All right, next four floats I'm going to talk about all at once because these are the guys.

833
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,040
So Robert Jordan then steps away.

834
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:22,040
84.

835
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,040
He's off the books.

836
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:31,040
What we then get is four authors step up to the plate and these guys work together sort

837
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,400
of like how the Call of Duty games are made by like three different studios.

838
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,800
So they keep them yearly, but like they all get time off.

839
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:45,520
Except these four authors, it was two books a year and you get one year between them.

840
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,160
So the pace kind of cools a bit.

841
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,240
So now we're talking like early Star Wars stuff.

842
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:53,360
We've got people saying Mara Jade is here.

843
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,000
Mara Jade isn't here.

844
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,320
Mara Jade took it with Lando.

845
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:57,320
Oh, no, no, she isn't.

846
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,440
She's with Luke.

847
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,240
Very much so because quite a few of these authors would come up with their own like

848
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:07,900
bespoke side characters, except unlike in Star Wars where everyone's like just using

849
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:11,880
other people's like characters and doing them in different ways.

850
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,280
These guys are just like, they're so, this is how I imagine it.

851
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,880
They're just so focused and so like, I've just got to get this out.

852
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,440
They ain't reading the other guy's work.

853
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,200
They have no idea.

854
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,440
So one will write in a side character and then the next bloke will just pretend they

855
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,680
don't exist, write in their own side character and then because the timelines are wibbly

856
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:36,060
wobbly you'll read them in chronological order and go, right, this guy's with Conan.

857
00:44:36,060 --> 00:44:40,440
He then just disappears for a book and then the next book he's just standing next to him

858
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:41,440
again.

859
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:42,920
Just like, oh yeah, I was here the whole time.

860
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:43,960
Ignore me.

861
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,240
How many like Red Sonya, Belit clones we get here in this era?

862
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:50,280
A lot.

863
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,280
A lot.

864
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,840
The strong sort of warrior women character runs through a lot of these.

865
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,960
Robert Jordan had one that he used three times called, I think it was like Crilla the Red

866
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:00,960
Hawk.

867
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:01,960
Very popular.

868
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:08,000
Carl Wagner did a really good one where Conan has to go to like this barbarian themed masquerade

869
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,000
ball.

870
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,000
That sounds so stupid saying it out loud.

871
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,000
I actually really like that story.

872
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,000
It does.

873
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,480
It sounds, it got embarrassing you said that.

874
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:14,480
Yeah.

875
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,400
But there's a character in there which literally is a red Sonya insert.

876
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,880
A woman comes up to Conan in this ridiculous chain now bikini and then Conan scoffs at it

877
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,480
because how silly.

878
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:26,480
Come on.

879
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:27,480
Okay.

880
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:28,480
Okay.

881
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,680
And we get, so let's actually talk about these authors.

882
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,280
John Roberts.

883
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:37,240
He wrote an excellent historical fiction series called the SPQR.

884
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:39,560
You can guess what that's about.

885
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:40,560
And he was a great author.

886
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,960
He wrote eight Conan books and he's one of my personal favourites.

887
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:48,920
I'd actually say of this era, anything by John Roberts, John Maddox Roberts, because

888
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:54,520
he maybe isn't the strongest author who ever touched Conan, but I do genuinely feel that

889
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,200
he got the character.

890
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:01,880
When he's writing like Conan the Valerius or Conan the Champion, you're like, yes, he's

891
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:02,920
here.

892
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,240
This is Robert E. Howard's Conan.

893
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:08,120
What this guy does do though, which is a bit odd.

894
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,880
So John Roberts, didn't mind we talked earlier about like short stories.

895
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,360
Short, yeah.

896
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:14,600
This guy gets it.

897
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,280
John Roberts used to said in an interview once, I'd write my Conan story.

898
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:19,280
I hand it to my publisher.

899
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,320
They'd just be like, oh, this is fantastic.

900
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:23,320
It's only 120 pages.

901
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:24,320
And he'd be like, yeah.

902
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,320
And they're like, we need more.

903
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,320
And he's like, but I'm done.

904
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:31,320
That's the story.

905
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,080
And they're like, yeah, you need more.

906
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,360
And he actually, if you read his stories, you can really vibe this.

907
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,360
In Conan the Valerius, there's just this section where you get about two firsts through, and

908
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,600
then Conan just goes on a side mission.

909
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:46,720
And it's a good side mission.

910
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:51,200
And you're almost like, well, this could just almost be its own short story, but it's so

911
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,680
crowbarred in.

912
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,080
And then as soon as it's resolved, Conan's like, no, don't mention it again.

913
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,800
There's a moment in Conan the Champion, which this is going to sound really bad.

914
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,440
John Roberts is really good.

915
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,000
There's a bit in that where Conan literally goes to a fey world.

916
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:06,920
Like he's defending a village.

917
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,680
A sorcerer pops up, creates a portal.

918
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,800
A monster drunks the lady of the day back through the portal.

919
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,600
Conan dies after her.

920
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:24,400
And we get like 60 pages of the fey wilds and evil elves in like dark obelisk castles.

921
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:25,960
And this is not very Conan.

922
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:26,960
I know it's horrific.

923
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:27,960
And we go for it.

924
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,360
But what's so kind of amusing is that the moment Conan gets back through the portal

925
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,520
and it snaps shut, it's not mentioned again for like the next 60 pages.

926
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,360
It just didn't happen.

927
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,360
Moving on.

928
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:41,760
OK, well, that's embarrassing.

929
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:47,400
It's genuinely one, that sounds like the pacing of Bioshock Infinite.

930
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,880
And two, I didn't realize that Conan in this period of time was being published by Shonen

931
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,480
Jump because that's the shit they do.

932
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,580
Being like, no, no, no, no, don't you dare end this series.

933
00:47:55,580 --> 00:47:57,240
You got to keep pumping this shit out.

934
00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,840
What are the side characters up to, Taisen Kubo?

935
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,320
Come on, we got to have maybe 100 more chapters of this battle.

936
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:04,920
It is painful.

937
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,720
You can tell these guys put for their paces.

938
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:07,720
So let's just roll through the rest of them.

939
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:09,600
I don't want to be here for like ever.

940
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:10,600
Lenin Carpenter.

941
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,440
I'm also, I really don't actually want to talk about these guys because like when I

942
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:18,080
was making everything, I just want to spotlight on what I think these people did.

943
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,080
Lenin Carpenter.

944
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:20,080
No, hurry up.

945
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,440
Middleman, like Sea Grade, wrote really good ones.

946
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:27,840
Conan the Renegade and Conan the Raider wrote really bad ones like Conan the Warlord and

947
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,600
I can't even remember some of the others, but sort of very middle.

948
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,640
When he's good, when he's fighting Conan the Raider and it's like this mummy's tomb, Egypt

949
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:40,520
setting and he's like breaking in and then he's in the dark tomb and he can hear this

950
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:45,680
slow shuffling of feet and you realize it's like one of the mummies of wandering about.

951
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:46,680
Amazing.

952
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,000
But he can also just be really boring.

953
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:54,640
Conan the Savage is Conan becomes Bear Grylls and Lenin Carpenter goes really hardcore on

954
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,840
like Conan surviving.

955
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:01,840
He like falls down a river and he has to like, you know, make a fire and then create a little

956
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,200
shelter and he goes really super detailed.

957
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:09,760
And I'm like, okay, I'm sure someone out there, this is their thing, but this is just dull,

958
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:10,760
mate.

959
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:11,760
Sorry.

960
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:12,760
Not for Conan story.

961
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:13,760
Steve Perry.

962
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:14,760
Steve.

963
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:15,760
Chris Ryan writes.

964
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:16,760
Okay.

965
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:17,760
Sorry.

966
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:18,760
I joke.

967
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:19,760
No, it's your joke.

968
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:20,760
Chris Ryan writes Conan.

969
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:21,760
Whatever.

970
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:22,760
Moving on.

971
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:23,760
Steve Perry.

972
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:24,760
We all know Steve Perry.

973
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:25,760
Shadow of the Empire.

974
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:26,760
He vote for Forgotten Realms.

975
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:27,760
Oh yeah.

976
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:28,760
Yeah.

977
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:29,760
He's a name.

978
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:30,760
He's a name.

979
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:35,200
Do you want to know my favourite Conan story quote by Steve Perry?

980
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,020
Is this the one about the demon being obviously male?

981
00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:42,720
Even a blind man could see how obviously male the demon was.

982
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:44,800
That was very necessary for the story, Steve.

983
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:45,800
Good job.

984
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,040
Steve Perry is one that's also like originally I hate her for you don't care for the character.

985
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,040
You don't give a shit.

986
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:56,800
You just keep going like views and thighs and sinews and strength and you don't get

987
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:57,800
it.

988
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:58,800
You don't get it.

989
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,800
I mean, who cares?

990
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:01,800
It's hilarious.

991
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,120
This guy is off the charts.

992
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:08,720
This is every parody but just it's official.

993
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:11,240
In fact, it's better than parody to be quite honest.

994
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:12,760
Wait a second.

995
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,560
I just realized something.

996
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:21,040
The fact that like actual people were writing fan fiction and then sending it to Lynn Carter.

997
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,040
That means that...

998
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,040
Oh, the Eye of Argonne.

999
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,840
Yeah, the Eye of Argonne.

1000
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,920
That could have been official Conan.

1001
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:37,840
To quote Carl Wagner who wrote Conan the Road of Kings, to be quite honest, everything that

1002
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:43,520
we write for Conan is just fan fiction and is as much legitimate to the canon of Robert

1003
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,680
E. Howard as something you write yourself.

1004
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,320
I'm paraphrasing slightly but that was his sentiment.

1005
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,280
If you don't mind Duncan, after the episode try and find the exact quote because I feel

1006
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,480
like that'd be nice to add to the episode.

1007
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,160
I will look for it.

1008
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,640
Duncan has to unfortunately admit that he searched everywhere from interviews to fan

1009
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:10,040
sites and the very book itself but he could not find the actual quote which this was attributed

1010
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:11,040
to so he apologizes.

1011
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,320
And then we have Throne and Green.

1012
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:14,840
He wrote seven Conan novels.

1013
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,240
I have very little to say about him.

1014
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:19,200
I think he's just a bit dull but not atrocious.

1015
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:24,640
But in some respect, being boring is probably worse than being Steve Perry levels of fucking

1016
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:25,640
insane.

1017
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,160
Sure, because that's the one thing the Conan stories aren't and the reason why we recommended

1018
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,400
them in the first place and said they're worth reading.

1019
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:33,400
They're exciting.

1020
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,400
They're quick.

1021
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:35,400
Quick is the word.

1022
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:36,400
So talk about speed.

1023
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,840
So we said like average two books a year?

1024
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,320
Yeah that's average.

1025
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:41,320
89.

1026
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:42,320
4 novels.

1027
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:43,320
1 year.

1028
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,280
2 by the same bloke.

1029
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:46,280
Jesus Christ.

1030
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:51,040
This literally, your stone just sound like, your stone just sound like Hamilton at this

1031
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:52,040
point.

1032
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:56,880
Yeah anyway, I'm not going to wrap this, I should write Conan now.

1033
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:57,880
Wait, hold on.

1034
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,880
Who said, I'll do it, hang on.

1035
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,760
Rowling Green wrote the other four.

1036
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,920
Maybe it's not that impressive this time but you know, you get my point.

1037
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:09,360
Yeah let me come to 11 books.

1038
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,200
Rowling Green, 7 books.

1039
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,560
Like they are coming fast.

1040
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,800
But then things do begin to calm down a little bit.

1041
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,280
We get some new blood in there.

1042
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,280
Sean Amore wrote 3 books.

1043
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:21,280
Apparently they're good.

1044
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,160
I haven't been able to track them down.

1045
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:24,160
Sadly.

1046
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,360
He also wrote the Cold Conqueror novelisation.

1047
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,200
Again, haven't been able to track it down.

1048
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:34,080
Then we get two names, which I think are quite interesting.

1049
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,800
Harry Turtledove writes the last Conan novel published by Torv.

1050
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,560
Turtledove, okay.

1051
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:44,640
Famed writer of alternative histories which are sometimes quite bad.

1052
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:50,880
I've heard he's written quite a lot of, what if the American Civil War went the other way?

1053
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,440
He writes alternate history stuff.

1054
00:52:53,440 --> 00:53:00,000
So I'm most familiar with him based on the shit stuff he wrote because I follow some

1055
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:05,360
guys who do alternate history stuff on YouTube and I've seen this thing.

1056
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:10,560
It's a summarisation of a book series he did where it's like, what if the Americas were

1057
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:16,760
a collection of small islands and then he just writes American history again and makes

1058
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:17,760
no changes.

1059
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,960
He just changes the names of individual characters and it makes it so much less interesting.

1060
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,960
He sounds like a bad writer just from my understanding of his work.

1061
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:31,080
I'm going to tell you now, he wrote Canon of Velarium and it's not regarded as a very

1062
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:32,080
good book.

1063
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:33,080
Well there we go.

1064
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:38,760
He had very little care for barbarian culture.

1065
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,480
Something that John Roberts definitely loved a lot.

1066
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,720
He wrote an excellent Samaria.

1067
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:48,760
But there's one other name who came just at the tail end of tour and this name I think

1068
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,680
is actually the most important from this era.

1069
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:56,520
Despite my love for John Roberts, despite how good Robert Jordan is an author, this

1070
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:01,320
guy I think is truly important and that's John C. Hocking.

1071
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,760
Okay, I have never heard this name before.

1072
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:05,760
Really?

1073
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,440
Because, Geordie, if you look to your bookshelf you'll have a book by him on it.

1074
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,560
Are you trying to tell me about the Dark Horse collections because I have those on Comixology?

1075
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:18,480
I'm telling you about the book that was published this year.

1076
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:24,800
Conan and the City of the Dead was written by John C. Hocking as was Conan and the Emerald

1077
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:32,040
Lotus, the second to last tour book that came out I think in the early 2000s.

1078
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:33,580
Are they good?

1079
00:54:33,580 --> 00:54:41,000
They are, quite possibly, the single greatest grasping of the character of Conan outside

1080
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,600
Robert E. Howard.

1081
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,920
Wow, okay.

1082
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,640
That's crazy that that's the guy whose name I didn't recognise.

1083
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,240
I recognise Harry Turtledove and not this guy.

1084
00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:56,520
John C. Hocking has written, as far as I'm aware, two novels and one short story.

1085
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,680
There's two Conan novels and it's one Conan short story.

1086
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:00,680
Wow, okay.

1087
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:06,240
So this guy is legitimately a fanfic writer, he's not like a published author.

1088
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:07,240
Absolutely.

1089
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:12,880
Apparently, he sent in, so I'm sorry I am trying to, a little bit from here say so,

1090
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:17,520
I do apologies John if I do get this story right, incorrect.

1091
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:23,040
John like wanted to get published by tour because he felt that they were getting off

1092
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:24,040
character.

1093
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,740
He was unhappy with where it was going so he did a night, and Nyberg.

1094
00:55:28,740 --> 00:55:32,040
He wrote his own Conan story and he was like submitted it.

1095
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,360
He's like, please, can this go out?

1096
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,040
And they went, damn, that's good.

1097
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,540
Absolutely.

1098
00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:46,600
This is every fucking Star Wars fan's dream to be able to write to Disney or George Lucas

1099
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:48,840
and be like, you need to fix the story.

1100
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,480
I'm the genius who's going to make it happen.

1101
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:56,520
And then for them to go, wow, you're actually this guy is better at Star Wars than us.

1102
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,080
Let us all bow down and give him a million dollars.

1103
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,760
And just say John C. Hocking, he seems to be a really great guy.

1104
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,280
He's really active on the Reddit pages.

1105
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,520
He's even responded to a few of my posts.

1106
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:09,720
He seems like a really nice man.

1107
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:10,720
Well, that's nice.

1108
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:15,680
So he wrote Conan the Emerald Lotus, the one name I want you to remember from the tour

1109
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,040
era.

1110
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,520
That is the Conan book to read.

1111
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:19,520
I've already been on it.

1112
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:20,520
He then wrote.

1113
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:21,520
What was it again?

1114
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,360
The Citadel of the Emerald Lotus.

1115
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,080
Conan and the Emerald Lotus.

1116
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,480
Oh, that's close.

1117
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:33,360
He then wrote a sequel, Conan and the I believe it's called The Living Plague.

1118
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:34,800
Alrighty and he wrote it.

1119
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,680
It was finished.

1120
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,040
And before it was published, all were like, oh, we're handing over the rights.

1121
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,040
Sorry.

1122
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,240
And they went back in a draw.

1123
00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:45,360
Wait, is that is that the City of the Dead?

1124
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,480
Is that he's had it in a draw for like the 20 years?

1125
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:49,480
Yes.

1126
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:50,480
20 years.

1127
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:56,760
In fact, in like, I remember reading like 2017, I think Beaver's on the Blackgate website.

1128
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:57,880
They literally put up a review.

1129
00:56:57,880 --> 00:56:59,360
They went, yeah, we contacted John.

1130
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,280
He sent us the manuscript.

1131
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:02,640
Here's our review for it.

1132
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:09,840
And I'm like, thank you for reviewing a book I can't read.

1133
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:14,000
So when I found out it was actually going to get published, I was thrilled.

1134
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,360
And we will get to that later, I'm sure.

1135
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,960
So tour has ended and do you want to see the twilight years Conan's about to enter a lot.

1136
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:29,600
We had amazing 60s, 70s, 80s, but the 90s oversaturated on books.

1137
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:30,600
Quality was dropping.

1138
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,600
Before we jump in there, Duncan, I think I'm going to have to ask you to crack down again.

1139
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,640
Give me the rapid rundown of the good stuff from this era.

1140
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:43,300
The absolute best is Conan the Emerald Lotus by John C. Hocking is available in a collection

1141
00:57:43,300 --> 00:57:44,420
with the City of the Dead.

1142
00:57:44,420 --> 00:57:46,800
If you buy the hardback today.

1143
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,440
My two favourite authors on this era is John Roberts.

1144
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,320
I think he got the character of Conan perfectly.

1145
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,320
And Robert Jordan, he's just a really good writer.

1146
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,920
Robert Jordan, you can read his work in the collection Conan Chronicles.

1147
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,440
John Roberts, some of it's available on Kindle, some of it's harder to hunt down.

1148
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,220
He is worth it though.

1149
00:58:03,220 --> 00:58:05,000
And you'd say those are the guys to watch out for.

1150
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,560
You don't really have to mess around with the others you mentioned.

1151
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:09,180
I really don't think so.

1152
00:58:09,180 --> 00:58:11,120
I have read some of their books and I like their books.

1153
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,240
Len of Carpenter, I like Conan the Renegade and Conan the Raider.

1154
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,600
But listen, that's like the next level.

1155
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:18,920
You've got to get through the really good stuff first.

1156
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:23,680
Get through the A and B tier and then I'll tell you about the decent C tier stuff.

1157
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:29,500
Okay, so earlier you mentioned we're in the 2000s but now you've mentioned the 90s.

1158
00:58:29,500 --> 00:58:31,200
What time period are we going into now?

1159
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:35,400
Okay, so TOR was from the 82 to 04.

1160
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:39,120
So in the 90s, things were kind of building down.

1161
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,720
We had the big splurge of the films.

1162
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:46,160
Marvel in the early 2000s sold the rights or didn't renew the license.

1163
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:47,640
The Dark Horse took on the license.

1164
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,840
This is very much a new era.

1165
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:59,800
In this era, the first things we get are actually the first time Geordie, Robert E. Howard's

1166
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:07,600
Conan is collected and released as he wrote it.

1167
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,280
This is really important.

1168
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:16,600
Delance put out their big black hardcover of the complete Chronicles of Conan and Delray

1169
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,480
put out their three paperbacks.

1170
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,000
It's a wonderful book.

1171
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:26,120
I remember having a wonderful holiday in Greece, reading it on the beach.

1172
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:32,000
To this day, if I run my finger along the spine of that book, there are small pebbles

1173
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:36,840
embedded in between the spine and the book from that beach.

1174
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:38,960
It is a beautiful collection.

1175
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,400
The Delray versions are equally nice if you want to go down that route.

1176
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:48,320
Geordie, this is really important because during the whole of this, ever since even

1177
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,440
the known press stuff, that was edited by De Camp.

1178
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:56,680
This is Robert E. Howard's actual words finally coming through, good and pure.

1179
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:58,680
That is really important.

1180
00:59:58,680 --> 00:59:59,680
Hi.

1181
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,680
I'm putting my hand up.

1182
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:05,680
Professor Nicol, is that because De Camp is dead?

1183
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:06,680
Yes.

1184
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:15,400
You had to wait for this guy to die before Robert E. Howard's actual work could be experienced

1185
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:16,720
by the general public.

1186
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:26,200
I will just say it could be a coincidence, but when looking at it from the outside.

1187
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:34,480
I think I might just take that but and amplify it like 10 times.

1188
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:40,480
It's like the Star Wars legends, EU getting put into legends.

1189
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,760
It could be a coincidence it just so happened to be at the Disney buyout.

1190
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:45,760
But.

1191
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:46,760
But.

1192
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:51,080
So we finally get this.

1193
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:52,080
Wonderful era.

1194
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:58,560
A New Dawn, Dark Horse has started their legendary run at this time on the comic book side.

1195
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:02,040
But before we go over to comics, we've got to hit a few more quick books.

1196
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:03,040
I'm listening.

1197
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,000
I think we should hit this quite quickly.

1198
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:06,000
Cool.

1199
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,000
They made an MMO.

1200
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,800
Massive Mudflat Online Game and they cracked out.

1201
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,640
The famous penis slider one.

1202
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:14,680
Absolutely.

1203
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:20,600
They had 12 novels come out literally all within like the same year to time with the

1204
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,600
release of the MMO.

1205
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:28,120
They had four trilogies commissioned by different authors and across the board I generally say

1206
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:32,240
these weren't very good, but they are interesting because for the first time they wanted to

1207
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:38,080
tell stories that were set in Hyboria but not starring Conan.

1208
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:42,960
Here's the weirdest thing, Duncan, of all the things that I cannot remember, like where

1209
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,640
I left my keys and what is my mother's birthday.

1210
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:52,240
I have a vivid memory of you describing this series to me for the first time and like talking

1211
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:59,600
about how like this one book is about like the tribe which Conan comes from after he's

1212
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:04,760
left and about how like this one hero has to leave but once you leave Samaria you can

1213
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:10,320
never come back and you complaining that that's not true because Conan's granddad came back.

1214
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,000
Yes, I have that complaint.

1215
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,760
It bothered me the entirety of the Legend of Kern series.

1216
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,280
They're like when you're out of the tribe you're out of the tribe.

1217
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:22,400
I'm like well that doesn't work because then how could have Conan's grandfather gone

1218
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:26,400
on adventures to inspire his grandson and not come back to the tribe?

1219
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:27,640
Just doesn't make sense, does it?

1220
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,920
And then you pushed your glasses up your nose and you snorted.

1221
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:37,240
Exactly, and also in this particular book all the Samarians wear ponchos and that's

1222
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:38,240
hilarious.

1223
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:42,200
Yes, I remember you told me about that, the ponchos.

1224
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:43,840
They wear ponchos and kilts.

1225
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:48,040
That's the classic, yeah, everyone wears ponchos and kilts.

1226
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:50,920
That's like they go together like ham and cheese.

1227
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:58,320
So there's that, there's a one about heretic and Stygian which is kind of cool but it's

1228
01:02:58,320 --> 01:02:59,400
not very well written.

1229
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:05,240
There's another one about an Aquilonian soldier which again is kind of cool, not very well

1230
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:09,400
written and another one which I can't find without some of the orders somewhere.

1231
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,480
Yay, moving on.

1232
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:12,960
So 12 shit books, whatever.

1233
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,200
Yep, 2011 there's a film tie-in by Michael Stackpole.

1234
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:19,520
Michael Stackpole wrote the X-Wing books for Star Wars.

1235
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:23,440
He's a pretty decent writer and the book is better than the movie but that's not a high

1236
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:24,440
bar.

1237
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:29,440
All right, can you give us some, can you give a review of the movie in 45 seconds?

1238
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:33,920
Jason Momoa is a good actor, it's a shame he was given nothing good to do.

1239
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,600
Ron Perlman is also a good actor, again a terrible shame he had nothing good to do.

1240
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:42,240
It's vaguely more related to the book series than the Arnold Schwarzenegger ones but not

1241
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:43,240
really that related.

1242
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,800
They don't know how to pronounce Acheron and it's actually just not very well filmed and

1243
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:49,480
I watched it with my little sister once.

1244
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:56,400
I spent £1.50 in a used shop to get the DVD and I felt like I wasted my £1.50 but it

1245
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,480
was fun to laugh at with my little sister a little bit, I'm not going to lie.

1246
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:00,480
Well there we go.

1247
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:01,480
Okay.

1248
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:05,520
And the real problem with that movie and this is a bitch is that even today you're like

1249
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:07,120
who should play Conan?

1250
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:08,120
Jason Momoa.

1251
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,760
Jason Momoa, obviously, obviously.

1252
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:12,160
And I wasted a shot with it.

1253
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:13,960
Shake my damn head.

1254
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:19,560
So we then get a real dead period which is really kind of ironic because the next, so

1255
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:26,400
this is 2011 that comes out and then we have 11 years, the years in which I got into Conan

1256
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:27,400
with nothing.

1257
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:28,740
Funny, yeah.

1258
01:04:28,740 --> 01:04:38,640
And then finally to the current present day, 2022, heroic signatures through Titan start

1259
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,360
putting out new Conan stories.

1260
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:46,040
They kicked it off with SM Sterling's Blood of the Serpent which is written as a direct

1261
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:47,280
prequel to Red Nails.

1262
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,840
I've had it on my bookshelf for about a year and a half.

1263
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:50,840
I haven't actually read it yet.

1264
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:51,840
Oops, sorry.

1265
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:52,840
I'm sure it's good.

1266
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:54,080
I'll get around to it.

1267
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:57,400
So is that like the story of Valeria then?

1268
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:58,400
Yes.

1269
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:02,200
It's about Conan meeting Valeria and to be honest it's a bit kind of funny because you

1270
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,240
read this opening to Red Nails, it actually goes Conan was happy to be on this adventure

1271
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:11,840
because he had been having a really boring time in a Stygian outpost and it's like, well

1272
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,000
that doesn't sound like a fun set up.

1273
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:15,000
But okay.

1274
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:20,120
And if you buy the hardcover you get Red Nails in the back which is kind of cool, I'm not

1275
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:21,120
going to lie.

1276
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:25,560
But what we also get is Conan and the City of the Dead by John C. Hocking.

1277
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:26,840
It finally came out, Geordie.

1278
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,560
It took 20 years.

1279
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:32,120
This is the only Conan story I have ever purchased before you.

1280
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:36,400
I know I can't wait to get it and read it, probably talk about it with you.

1281
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:41,320
If you buy Conan and the City of the Dead the hardback edition you will get both Emerald

1282
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:46,420
Lotus and the new story in that single hardback.

1283
01:05:46,420 --> 01:05:47,420
This is the purchase.

1284
01:05:47,420 --> 01:05:48,920
What should I read first?

1285
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:49,920
I know.

1286
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,520
A conundrum we will grapple with in the future.

1287
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:57,160
And finally, gosh this is taking me a while to get to, we're here at present day, currently

1288
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:59,160
being put out by heroic signatures.

1289
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:03,080
This is their heroic series, I can't remember the exact name of the series, but they're

1290
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:08,720
putting out a series of Conan short fiction, short stories once again are being released

1291
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:10,760
for Kingdom Lonely at the moment.

1292
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,640
I presume there might be a physical collection further down the line.

1293
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:15,640
But they're literally £1.50.

1294
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,080
Allow me to amend that.

1295
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:24,680
Boo unless we are now sponsored by Amazon, in which case hooray.

1296
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:26,680
This has been really cool to see.

1297
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:30,920
It's like the original spirit of Robert E Howard again, lots of different authors, we're

1298
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:31,920
getting one a month.

1299
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:37,520
They're literally like £1.50, £2 or $3 or your equivalent.

1300
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:43,400
And it's not just Conan, we've also got Solomon Cain stories, Brown Mac Morn and some Bay

1301
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:47,680
deck stories focusing on the character from Queen of the Black Coast.

1302
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:48,680
And they're really cool.

1303
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:50,280
It's a great time to be a Conan fan.

1304
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:53,120
Okay, we got to the end Geordie.

1305
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:54,800
I did it.

1306
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:55,800
Very nice.

1307
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:57,080
Now that was our episode everyone.

1308
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:58,840
There's nothing else left to cover.

1309
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,320
Duncan thank you so much for that informative ride.

1310
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,760
Sadly we're not done yet Geordie.

1311
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:07,640
There's still one thing, I say one thing, quite a few things we've got to hit.

1312
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:09,400
And that's Conan in comic books.

1313
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:15,200
Because some of the best past-age writing has actually been in the Conan comic books.

1314
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,520
And he's well suited for comic books.

1315
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:23,360
Like this is a character who there's so much emphasis on action, that one story in

1316
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:28,240
particular I would say is actually better as a comic book than it is a story.

1317
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:29,840
The Jewels of Gwahlur.

1318
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:34,440
Yes, or the servants of Bit Yakin or whatever title you want to go for it.

1319
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:35,760
It's an Indiana Jones story.

1320
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:37,400
It's a Tomb Raider story.

1321
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:38,560
It is, it is.

1322
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:43,240
And it's so much less confusing when you can just see what's happening instead of having

1323
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:47,840
Robert try to explain, okay so this is happening in this room and there's a shortcut over

1324
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,840
to this room and just like I can just draw these locations there.

1325
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:53,840
Are you happy?

1326
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,120
And like oh my god I finally understand what happened to that story.

1327
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:58,720
So okay let's hit this.

1328
01:07:58,720 --> 01:07:59,720
Let's go back in time.

1329
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,080
We're not in 2020 anymore.

1330
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:04,080
Back in 1970.

1331
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:09,680
1970 Roy Thomas goes to Stanley and goes, Lee we've got to get on this like fantasy

1332
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:10,680
stuff.

1333
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:11,680
It's going to be big.

1334
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,600
And Lee's like, man are things superheroes?

1335
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:15,600
I don't know.

1336
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:16,760
I don't know.

1337
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:17,840
And Roy's like, no.

1338
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,680
We do superheroes and we do space cars.

1339
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,960
Roy's like, no you've got to do this.

1340
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:27,240
And Lee's like, okay but this is your budget.

1341
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:32,920
And Roy looks at it and goes, I'm going to have to sacrifice my own salary because that

1342
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:38,040
budget is so laughably small I'm embarrassed to go to the rights holders with it.

1343
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:39,040
Wow.

1344
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:40,040
How low was the budget?

1345
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:42,200
Like could they even afford a colourist?

1346
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:44,040
So they could have a colourist but they couldn't.

1347
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,080
He couldn't have the original, his top pick for an artist.

1348
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:47,540
He wanted John Buscema.

1349
01:08:47,540 --> 01:08:49,560
He got Barry Windsor Smith.

1350
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:51,520
Gold there.

1351
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:56,080
The man's a genius when it comes to comic book artwork.

1352
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:57,880
He did his own work called Monster.

1353
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:58,880
Beautiful.

1354
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:05,040
But literally I think it was something as low as $150 per an issue to the rights holder.

1355
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:10,040
Which although there was more money in the 1970s, was still laughably little money.

1356
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:11,040
Right.

1357
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:14,720
So it's sort of a point where like it's not even worth the money to put the reputation

1358
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:19,120
of a brand on the line to tell like extra Conan stories.

1359
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:20,160
Pretty much.

1360
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:24,160
And it got to the point where Roy was actually going to go to Link Carter who had his own

1361
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:30,560
barbarian hero called Thongor of Lemuria and see if he could negotiate that character instead.

1362
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:32,200
But he did his best.

1363
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:33,820
He sacrificed his own money.

1364
01:09:33,820 --> 01:09:34,920
He didn't get John on it.

1365
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,640
He got Barry Windsor Smith and he did get Conan.

1366
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:43,400
And it had a solid five issues before sadly cancelled it.

1367
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:44,640
Okay.

1368
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,120
So this is not one that I've ever heard of or read.

1369
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:48,120
No.

1370
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:50,940
But it's a two coloured Marvel Conan the Barbarian from the 1970s.

1371
01:09:50,940 --> 01:09:52,980
It is a great comic book.

1372
01:09:52,980 --> 01:09:56,080
If you like bronze age comics to be honest.

1373
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,680
It's not really for the like the super Conan fam.

1374
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:02,720
I would say first and foremost this is for people who kind of like comic books of that

1375
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:03,720
era.

1376
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,080
I loved the original Marvel Star Wars run.

1377
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,340
I think has a lot more blood with that.

1378
01:10:09,340 --> 01:10:14,520
That said it does the best adaptation of Queen of the Black Coast.

1379
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:15,520
Better than Howard.

1380
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:16,520
It's amazing.

1381
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:18,120
Roy Thomas is a genius.

1382
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:24,120
But that well, that's very high praise for that one then.

1383
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:29,320
Um, so the reason why I made my joke Duncan about not being

1384
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:32,220
for the colourist is I assumed what you're talking about is

1385
01:10:32,220 --> 01:10:33,920
the black and white version of Conan.

1386
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:35,420
Is that the next one to come along?

1387
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,520
Yes, 75 we get Savage Sword of Conan.

1388
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:39,820
A spin of from Savage Tales.

1389
01:10:39,820 --> 01:10:43,520
Anyway, Savage Sword of Conan was what Roy wanted to do

1390
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:48,020
because it was going to be in a magazine and a magazine didn't

1391
01:10:48,020 --> 01:10:51,320
have to adhere to the comic code of the times, which means

1392
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,720
you could have nudity and blood.

1393
01:10:55,420 --> 01:10:56,120
Blood.

1394
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:57,020
Yes.

1395
01:10:57,620 --> 01:11:01,820
So what Roy did is that the coloured series would do like

1396
01:11:01,820 --> 01:11:07,620
Conan's early years from, you know, Samaria just up to Black

1397
01:11:07,620 --> 01:11:12,720
Colossus and then Savage Sword started at Black Colossus and

1398
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:16,920
kind of went forward, although it was a lot more episodic

1399
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:17,620
in nature.

1400
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:18,820
Okay.

1401
01:11:19,020 --> 01:11:22,720
And both Black Colossus got adapted twice at the very end

1402
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,420
of the coloured and the very start of Savage Sword.

1403
01:11:26,220 --> 01:11:26,520
Okay.

1404
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,320
So we're talking about those five issues then that's what

1405
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:29,920
you're talking about right now.

1406
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:30,920
Oh, sorry.

1407
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:31,320
Yeah.

1408
01:11:31,420 --> 01:11:32,720
I know I'm getting confused now.

1409
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:33,620
You made me jump.

1410
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:33,920
Yeah.

1411
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:38,820
Stanley cancelled it for five issue five and Roy literally

1412
01:11:39,020 --> 01:11:42,420
got on his hands and knees and went look the last issue

1413
01:11:42,420 --> 01:11:43,920
sold moderately better.

1414
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:47,320
Can we please have it back and Stan relented and it went

1415
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:49,620
on to run for 275 issues.

1416
01:11:51,220 --> 01:11:56,620
Stanley is kind of justifiably commemorated within the comic

1417
01:11:56,620 --> 01:11:59,220
space, you know, is incredibly influential and important

1418
01:11:59,220 --> 01:11:59,720
figure.

1419
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,320
But man, did he make some mistakes.

1420
01:12:03,820 --> 01:12:07,420
He didn't in I think Roy Thomas' said interviews like

1421
01:12:07,420 --> 01:12:08,820
Stan, great man.

1422
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:11,220
He didn't see what they were doing because what they were

1423
01:12:11,220 --> 01:12:12,520
doing was quite different.

1424
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:19,120
Roy wanted to do this barbarian almost antihero magical

1425
01:12:19,420 --> 01:12:22,920
figure and Stanley's like mate our best seller is Fantastic

1426
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:23,420
Four.

1427
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:24,920
What is this?

1428
01:12:25,420 --> 01:12:29,620
But time would tell Roy Thomas was pretty much right on

1429
01:12:29,620 --> 01:12:29,820
this.

1430
01:12:29,820 --> 01:12:31,320
It was a huge seller for them.

1431
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:35,620
Roy wrote the first 115 issues of Conan the Barbarian, the

1432
01:12:35,620 --> 01:12:39,820
coloured one and the first 60 issues of the Black and White

1433
01:12:39,820 --> 01:12:42,920
Savage Sword and we return later to write the ends of them.

1434
01:12:43,620 --> 01:12:50,320
Okay, worth noting adaptations Roy Thomas like adapted every

1435
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:54,220
Conan story before the start of the tour books.

1436
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:57,920
So all of that thing that I spoke about everything apart

1437
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,020
from Road of Kings shame on you.

1438
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:04,120
That would have been amazing to see but every other one and

1439
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:04,920
Conan the Rebel.

1440
01:13:05,020 --> 01:13:05,920
Okay, those two.

1441
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:06,520
Oh my god.

1442
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:07,820
Okay, take that what I said.

1443
01:13:07,820 --> 01:13:10,820
He's he's adapting these pastiche works into it as well.

1444
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:12,020
Yeah, absolutely.

1445
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,920
He's following De Camp's remember this is 1970.

1446
01:13:15,420 --> 01:13:16,820
It's all one thing mate.

1447
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:21,220
So he was adapting the pastiche works things that De Camp

1448
01:13:21,220 --> 01:13:22,020
had rewritten.

1449
01:13:22,420 --> 01:13:26,820
He adapted Nyberg's books, Link Carter's original stories

1450
01:13:27,020 --> 01:13:30,520
and not only that Roy he did De Camp.

1451
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:32,320
He did the same thing.

1452
01:13:32,620 --> 01:13:34,620
He rewrote other Robert E.

1453
01:13:34,620 --> 01:13:38,220
Howard stories into Conan stories for the comic book.

1454
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:39,220
I see.

1455
01:13:39,220 --> 01:13:42,520
So you're talking about him doing like what the veil of

1456
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:44,220
lost women like something like that.

1457
01:13:44,820 --> 01:13:48,620
No, I'm talking about him doing the Valley of the Lost

1458
01:13:48,620 --> 01:13:53,220
People or the Valley of Iskander which was a historic

1459
01:13:53,220 --> 01:13:55,920
fiction of Alexander the Great getting lost in a time

1460
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,920
warp but rewriting it to be a Conan story.

1461
01:13:59,220 --> 01:14:00,720
I'm talking Roy.

1462
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:05,120
I'm talking about him buying the rights to other authors

1463
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:09,820
work like I think it's called the Flame in the Wind and

1464
01:14:09,820 --> 01:14:11,520
another one which I think is called the Valley of the

1465
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:15,120
Bear Gods and writing them as Conan stories.

1466
01:14:16,420 --> 01:14:19,520
I mean, it's better that he's like paying these people

1467
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:20,020
to do it.

1468
01:14:20,020 --> 01:14:24,420
I guess but still I don't know this like the whole history

1469
01:14:24,420 --> 01:14:25,320
behind it.

1470
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:28,920
He was carrying on the tradition because like Roy said

1471
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:30,120
Conan was what was selling.

1472
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:32,720
So he wanted these stories to see publication.

1473
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:36,520
They had to star Conan but he also gave us Fred Sonia.

1474
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:38,220
So I really let him off.

1475
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:41,620
Okay, so that and what you're talking about there is that

1476
01:14:41,620 --> 01:14:44,320
both coloured and black and white that is in both coloured

1477
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:45,820
and black and white and black and white.

1478
01:14:45,820 --> 01:14:51,620
He adapted so many of the link Carter to camp Nyberg era

1479
01:14:51,620 --> 01:14:52,220
stuff.

1480
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:53,820
Do you want to share it?

1481
01:14:53,820 --> 01:14:57,820
So and for personal stuff, so the coloured one the Marvel

1482
01:14:57,820 --> 01:15:00,520
one you're talking about is the one that you lent to me

1483
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,420
back in second year of University, right?

1484
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:03,320
Yes.

1485
01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:07,520
Okay, so my brief bit of insight can get into this because

1486
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:11,120
I read like the first issue of one of those and I got up

1487
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:16,520
to like, what is it not maybe not Shadows are is it Shadows

1488
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:18,920
are no not Shadows are Shadows are shadow of a Shadows

1489
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:22,620
are yes shadow of a Shadows of is a bat monster and at that

1490
01:15:22,620 --> 01:15:26,120
point I was like I just some knowledge on this because

1491
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:30,420
it's not bloody and it feels kind of kids-glovey and it

1492
01:15:30,420 --> 01:15:33,320
feels like a Fantastic Four story somewhat.

1493
01:15:33,820 --> 01:15:37,920
It's not as gritty and dark as I hope for from a Conan story.

1494
01:15:38,020 --> 01:15:41,320
I cannot argue with you the colour comic definitely has

1495
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:42,120
that vibe.

1496
01:15:42,420 --> 01:15:45,320
I think and that's why the black and white one Roy knew

1497
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:47,920
this and that's why he pushed for the black and white one

1498
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:48,920
to be created.

1499
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:54,120
So he could use a lot like something like he man or the

1500
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:57,820
Legend of Zelda cartoon like where swords don't actually

1501
01:15:57,820 --> 01:16:01,520
cut things swords are all blunt or they shoot laser beams.

1502
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:05,520
So you don't have to so show someone being slashed definitely

1503
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,720
the case if you read any of the interviews with Roy,

1504
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:12,220
so when Dark Horse collected this series Roy actually took

1505
01:16:12,220 --> 01:16:15,120
the liberty of going back and changing things that he got

1506
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,220
really annoyed with the sensors for and in all the backs

1507
01:16:18,220 --> 01:16:19,620
of the Dark Horse collections.

1508
01:16:19,820 --> 01:16:21,520
It's Roy's basically going.

1509
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:23,320
Yeah, I had a fight with the sensors over there.

1510
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:25,720
So I had a fight with them over that they wouldn't let me

1511
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:26,520
do this.

1512
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:29,420
So there's loads of instances as one where he wanted Conan

1513
01:16:29,420 --> 01:16:33,220
to behead a guy, but they said we can't so what he did was

1514
01:16:33,220 --> 01:16:36,320
he had the guy be really fat and then he told the artist

1515
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:37,120
in the panel.

1516
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:40,520
I want you to show his head and then don't show like it's

1517
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:43,620
been beheaded but the fact that we can't see his fat body

1518
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:47,020
in that one panel would imply we've cut it off.

1519
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,520
What okay, I don't really get we're putting down that

1520
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:51,720
but I know it was weird.

1521
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:54,320
There was also an instance where he wanted Belit to be

1522
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:57,720
like the mating dance is like and then Belit will do the

1523
01:16:57,720 --> 01:16:59,820
mating dance for Conan and the sensor was like you can't

1524
01:16:59,820 --> 01:17:02,020
do that and he was like, what's the matter and they're like

1525
01:17:02,020 --> 01:17:04,920
you need to write love dance and he's like that means the

1526
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,520
same and the sensor was like, you know, it's not.

1527
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:13,620
Okay, that would be a fucking funny conversation to be on

1528
01:17:13,620 --> 01:17:15,620
the fly in the war for anyway.

1529
01:17:15,620 --> 01:17:18,020
So he did that if you're interested in that Savage saw

1530
01:17:18,020 --> 01:17:19,720
the black and white stuff was amazing.

1531
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,420
It is a bugger to find collected these days, but it has

1532
01:17:22,420 --> 01:17:23,820
been collected multiple times.

1533
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:27,120
If you want the hardcore Conan the coloured stuff I love

1534
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:30,020
for the deep passion but Geordie's right is a little bit

1535
01:17:30,020 --> 01:17:33,320
more watered down in terms of like visceralness, but if

1536
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:37,220
you can just buy into it, it's like any I think it has

1537
01:17:37,220 --> 01:17:41,420
enough of that vibe like a really good kids show, you

1538
01:17:41,420 --> 01:17:44,820
know the Vanaheim section of it at the beginning though

1539
01:17:44,820 --> 01:17:45,720
genuinely.

1540
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:46,720
I liked it.

1541
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:47,520
It's weird.

1542
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:48,220
It's out there.

1543
01:17:48,220 --> 01:17:51,620
It doesn't feel like a faithful adaptation, but it's just

1544
01:17:51,620 --> 01:17:55,420
like a good Saturday morning cartoon barbarian story.

1545
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:57,720
So moving on quickly.

1546
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,720
So Marvel Comics has some good runs.

1547
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:02,520
There was a King Conan series for a bit.

1548
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:03,820
I really love that too.

1549
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:06,020
We get a lot of Conan and his children.

1550
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:08,320
That's a story for another day.

1551
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:11,420
I should could do a whole episode on just that but and

1552
01:18:11,420 --> 01:18:14,620
Marvel of this again because this was you said this in

1553
01:18:14,620 --> 01:18:18,220
the section where it was a bit confusing but the Marvel

1554
01:18:18,220 --> 01:18:19,020
coloured run.

1555
01:18:19,020 --> 01:18:21,820
I think you're saying is the one where you say it's the

1556
01:18:21,820 --> 01:18:24,220
best version of Queen of the Black Coast, right?

1557
01:18:24,620 --> 01:18:25,320
Absolutely.

1558
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:30,620
It's 42 issues long and it gives the time to the characters

1559
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:33,720
to really see Conan and Belit actually fall in love

1560
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:38,120
like nothing else and in fact the four-part story arc.

1561
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:43,620
I believe it's I say I believe I know issue 60 to 64 is

1562
01:18:43,620 --> 01:18:47,320
I absolutely adore it Conan meets gets his name Amra in

1563
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:50,220
that story on and it's absolutely fantastic.

1564
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:55,420
So after coloured Marvel and Savage Sword the black and

1565
01:18:55,420 --> 01:18:55,920
white one.

1566
01:18:56,620 --> 01:18:57,420
What's next?

1567
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:02,020
We get a short-lived King Conan comic coloured by Marvel

1568
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,820
and then as we get into the 90s Marvel, they're sputtering

1569
01:19:05,820 --> 01:19:08,720
a bit they're resetting to issue one a few times.

1570
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:11,220
They're trying to get the juices flowing.

1571
01:19:11,220 --> 01:19:13,820
Kind of the juices flowing trying to get the engines revving

1572
01:19:13,820 --> 01:19:16,720
again, but ultimately it's a bit of a lost cause.

1573
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:17,920
Roy Thomas comes back.

1574
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,720
He does brilliantly but by the start of the 2000s Sword

1575
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:24,520
and Sorcery is kind of done Marvel aren't interested.

1576
01:19:24,820 --> 01:19:28,720
So Marvel at the time I believe that's like the major

1577
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:31,520
downturn for Marvel like that's when comic books were

1578
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:33,820
just not making money anymore.

1579
01:19:34,220 --> 01:19:36,920
That's when they were like, let's sell off our superhero

1580
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:41,220
rights because we're not making our own movies anytime soon.

1581
01:19:41,220 --> 01:19:44,920
So they give up the rights and Conan ultimately ends up

1582
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:52,820
with Dark Horse with a launch in 2004 by the fantastic Kurt

1583
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:55,420
Buseyuk and Cary Nord.

1584
01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:57,620
Nah, it's Buseyuk.

1585
01:19:58,420 --> 01:20:02,220
Geordi I can finally give my voice of S tell everyone why

1586
01:20:02,220 --> 01:20:04,920
this series is fantastic while I sip some water.

1587
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:08,220
So thank you Duncan for letting me take over here.

1588
01:20:08,220 --> 01:20:11,720
This is the first thing that Duncan ever introduced me

1589
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:15,920
to after I finished Conan because I asked the exact same

1590
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:16,420
question.

1591
01:20:16,420 --> 01:20:17,720
What should I do now?

1592
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:20,320
And Duncan said there's a really good comic book.

1593
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:25,120
It follows Conan's basically his entire career from the

1594
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:29,620
very very beginning with the Rime of the Frostmaiden with the

1595
01:20:29,620 --> 01:20:34,220
Frost Giants daughter all the way up to and now we get a

1596
01:20:34,220 --> 01:20:39,320
little confusing but basically it begins with this absolutely

1597
01:20:39,620 --> 01:20:44,920
gorgeously drawn section where you see the very first

1598
01:20:45,020 --> 01:20:49,820
adventures of Conan and then as it jumps from story to

1599
01:20:49,820 --> 01:20:54,920
story so Frost Giants daughter to Tower of the Elephant.

1600
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,720
They much like other authors Duncan has mentioned before

1601
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:02,120
they take those like little sample stories like stories

1602
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:06,220
that Robert E Howard maybe never finished and they implanted

1603
01:21:06,220 --> 01:21:09,620
in a they they tell other stories in the meantime to bridge

1604
01:21:09,620 --> 01:21:10,220
the gap.

1605
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:14,120
So we go we're basically following the journey of Conan

1606
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:19,920
like his his winding road trip all through the Kingdoms of

1607
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:26,220
Aquilonia and I forget the place's name.

1608
01:21:26,220 --> 01:21:28,620
I'm sorry some more about a Turan.

1609
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:29,320
Yes.

1610
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:30,120
Thank you.

1611
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:33,120
I don't think he goes to Turan in this series actually,

1612
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:37,120
but there is also some cringe early 2000 shit.

1613
01:21:37,420 --> 01:21:42,420
Yes, I think that's fair to say beautiful art occasionally

1614
01:21:42,420 --> 01:21:47,320
this one like hey, we're going to do our own version of Red

1615
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:51,820
Sonja, but she's edgy and dark and white Geordie don't throw

1616
01:21:51,820 --> 01:21:52,120
it away.

1617
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:52,620
She's gone.

1618
01:21:52,620 --> 01:21:55,020
Okay, we won't show her again for like a hundred issues.

1619
01:21:55,020 --> 01:21:55,620
Don't worry.

1620
01:21:55,620 --> 01:22:00,120
But there's some just really great adverting to stories.

1621
01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:04,120
They do some great stuff in like giving continuity to the

1622
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:08,620
tales really making it feel like Conan is actually experiencing

1623
01:22:08,620 --> 01:22:12,220
these various adventures and he remembers that he's been on

1624
01:22:12,220 --> 01:22:16,720
them and friends from prior adventures will show up and

1625
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:19,520
like throw away characters who are mentioned as story.

1626
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:24,020
Oh my God, that was actually like a long-term ally of Conan

1627
01:22:24,020 --> 01:22:28,320
and it's now actually tragic in Rogues of a House where Conan's

1628
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:30,520
allies hanged his crimes.

1629
01:22:30,620 --> 01:22:33,520
He was like our friend for a long time.

1630
01:22:34,020 --> 01:22:35,720
Do you know what and this is something so I'm actually going

1631
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:38,520
to go back and praise Marvel again because this is isn't

1632
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:41,320
exclusive to Dark Horse like Marvel did this as well Roy

1633
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:42,720
Thomas sets up things.

1634
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:46,120
Generally, there's one character who gets his setup like

1635
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:49,920
a hundred and eighty issues before it gets pay off because

1636
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:53,020
Roy Thomas was like this character is reference in Jaws

1637
01:22:53,020 --> 01:22:57,220
of Galore that he'd met Conan before or when did that happen?

1638
01:22:57,820 --> 01:23:01,920
So something he meets a guy in like issues in like issue 30

1639
01:23:02,220 --> 01:23:05,120
that we generally don't see again for nearly like 200

1640
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:07,420
issues to do the same thing.

1641
01:23:08,420 --> 01:23:13,320
Now speaking of Jewels of Gwahlur that's pretty well established

1642
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,920
in fan chronologies of Conan.

1643
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,920
That's like in the latter half of his career.

1644
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:21,720
How do we know that because it takes place in Vendya.

1645
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:23,120
Vendya is in the deep south.

1646
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:24,820
So it take him a long time to get there.

1647
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:27,820
The Dark Horse run never makes it to Jewels of Gwahlur.

1648
01:23:29,420 --> 01:23:31,020
No, not chronologically.

1649
01:23:31,020 --> 01:23:32,120
So this is a bit upsetting.

1650
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:33,120
It does peter out.

1651
01:23:33,620 --> 01:23:34,020
Yes.

1652
01:23:34,020 --> 01:23:37,720
So the Marvel run basically covers it between the coloured

1653
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:38,820
and savage sword.

1654
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:41,320
Dark Horse does and Dark Horse does a really solid run of

1655
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:46,420
about a hundred and fifty issues, but we get to I think it

1656
01:23:46,420 --> 01:23:49,520
was Iron, no not Iron Shadows and Moonlight, Devil in Iron,

1657
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:52,820
which is a story of Conan, it was about the midway point.

1658
01:23:52,820 --> 01:23:55,520
I don't think we even got to Devil in Iron, did we?

1659
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:56,420
It did indeed.

1660
01:23:56,420 --> 01:23:59,320
Conan the Slayer adapts Devil in Iron.

1661
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:00,720
It sadly died.

1662
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:05,920
I do think it was running out of scene for me and this is

1663
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:08,420
why I actually still have that love for the Marvel even though

1664
01:24:08,420 --> 01:24:11,920
it has that kid cartoon vibe and when the fantastic Jim

1665
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:14,720
Osley was writing it felt very Saturday Norn is cartoon,

1666
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:15,720
but like the best one.

1667
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:17,020
I really want to emphasize that.

1668
01:24:17,020 --> 01:24:23,320
So what Marvel did so well was Belit, 42 issues, a brilliant

1669
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:26,520
romance of a pirate Queen and her barbarian lover.

1670
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:28,120
They sail up and down the coast.

1671
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:32,920
When Dark Horse decided to do this things went a little wrong

1672
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:34,020
in my opinion.

1673
01:24:34,020 --> 01:24:39,120
I'd like to hear this Duncan because for very specific reasons

1674
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:40,320
despite loving your series.

1675
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:43,220
I haven't actually read this part and I'll get into my reason

1676
01:24:43,220 --> 01:24:44,720
why but you go ahead first.

1677
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:50,120
Okay, so the first sort of 180 issues, not 180, 80 issues.

1678
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:53,120
We get great run by Cary Nord.

1679
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:59,420
We then get a second run working with Timothy Truman also

1680
01:24:59,420 --> 01:25:02,620
an excellent writer and Roy Thomas comes back for a few issues.

1681
01:25:02,620 --> 01:25:05,120
So then the stories are we covering there?

1682
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:08,220
So we're talking about in chronological terms.

1683
01:25:08,220 --> 01:25:12,320
We're talking about Conan every day does up until Queen of

1684
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:14,720
the Black Coast by the dark storm chronology.

1685
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:18,320
So Black Colossus, Iron Shadows in the Moonlight, all the three stories

1686
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:19,820
all happened.

1687
01:25:19,820 --> 01:25:22,920
That's all that's this such good bits in Dark Horse.

1688
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:23,520
That's true.

1689
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:24,920
They are perfect.

1690
01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:28,820
But then Brian Wood who I have some issues with he wrote some

1691
01:25:28,820 --> 01:25:33,620
Star Wars I didn't like takes over for the Pirating Arc full

1692
01:25:33,620 --> 01:25:34,620
until night berserk.

1693
01:25:34,620 --> 01:25:38,220
He gets on the boat and you can't make that joke.

1694
01:25:38,220 --> 01:25:39,220
You haven't got there yet.

1695
01:25:39,220 --> 01:25:43,020
It's not all and this was really interesting because I felt

1696
01:25:43,020 --> 01:25:46,120
although we had different artists and different writers Dark

1697
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:47,820
Horse felt like they had one continuity.

1698
01:25:47,820 --> 01:25:52,120
Brian Wood felt like he just started afresh like he was issue

1699
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:55,120
one and no one had written anything before Conan looks

1700
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:57,320
different Conan acts different.

1701
01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:01,220
The artwork is widely inconsistent.

1702
01:26:01,220 --> 01:26:06,720
And I know that's subjective, but we both agree on it.

1703
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:14,720
It gets very 2D and fuzzy and dirty the early the very very

1704
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:19,920
earliest of the Conan run went for quite a distinct photo

1705
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:24,820
realistic style, which is not necessarily like in any way

1706
01:26:24,820 --> 01:26:29,220
necessarily better than more stylistic or exaggerated stars.

1707
01:26:29,220 --> 01:26:33,020
I don't mean that in slightest that imagery in fact gets sort

1708
01:26:33,020 --> 01:26:36,220
of toned down and gets a bit more comic booky like standard

1709
01:26:36,220 --> 01:26:37,720
modern comic book styles.

1710
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:40,520
It's something that you see in the early issues and one of

1711
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:43,720
great kind of stylistic choice that choices that were made is

1712
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:46,620
that they didn't actually ink they used to colour straight

1713
01:26:46,620 --> 01:26:48,020
over pencil sketches.

1714
01:26:48,020 --> 01:26:50,720
So you wouldn't have hard outlines.

1715
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:52,020
Yes, that's right.

1716
01:26:52,020 --> 01:26:54,620
It has a slightly ethereal feel to it.

1717
01:26:54,620 --> 01:26:58,320
It's soft and it feels round and warm that all goes out the

1718
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:03,220
window at this stage in the comic like thick lines.

1719
01:27:03,220 --> 01:27:06,520
In order to stylistic but to God I hate it.

1720
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:10,320
They have like black eyes like they the eyes aren't even

1721
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:11,420
drawn with like colour.

1722
01:27:11,420 --> 01:27:14,220
It feels like something out of like Darkest Dungeon almost

1723
01:27:14,220 --> 01:27:17,820
and I think it really upsets the mood of the series because

1724
01:27:17,820 --> 01:27:20,920
after this point it felt like it was in continuity and although

1725
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:24,820
I do feel like the next arc kind of the Avenger every time

1726
01:27:24,820 --> 01:27:26,820
a new writing King comes in they give him a new moniker

1727
01:27:26,820 --> 01:27:27,220
at the end.

1728
01:27:27,220 --> 01:27:29,220
They do get more back on track.

1729
01:27:29,220 --> 01:27:32,420
This is I felt really just rocked at this series.

1730
01:27:32,420 --> 01:27:36,620
Conan the Avengers that like the witch trial section followed

1731
01:27:36,620 --> 01:27:40,120
up which thing goes up to like Slytherin shadow, whatever.

1732
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:42,420
Yes, you get Slytherin shadow.

1733
01:27:42,420 --> 01:27:46,720
You get a witch shall be born and you get oh, what is it

1734
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:47,120
called?

1735
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:50,420
It's the Robert E. Howard story that he never finished like

1736
01:27:50,420 --> 01:27:51,920
Tusk in the dark that car.

1737
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:52,520
That's not it.

1738
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:54,520
I don't know what you're talking about.

1739
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:54,920
Sorry.

1740
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:59,220
Whilst Duncan's looking for stuff.

1741
01:27:59,220 --> 01:28:02,320
I'm going to just lay out my issue with the Belit section.

1742
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:04,720
And this has nothing to do with the comic book itself.

1743
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,120
It is completely down to a problem.

1744
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:08,320
I don't know what I'm talking about either.

1745
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:10,120
Okay, there we go.

1746
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:14,220
So I read all of this.

1747
01:28:14,220 --> 01:28:17,220
I siphoned the very first part which Duncan generously gave

1748
01:28:17,220 --> 01:28:18,020
to me as a comic book.

1749
01:28:18,020 --> 01:28:22,020
I read all of this on comics ology using the comics ology

1750
01:28:22,020 --> 01:28:23,020
app Duncan.

1751
01:28:23,020 --> 01:28:26,120
We will save your rants about a comics ology app for another

1752
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:29,220
episode because you will go on for about the length of the

1753
01:28:29,220 --> 01:28:31,220
episode so far if I let you rest in peace.

1754
01:28:31,220 --> 01:28:32,420
We love you.

1755
01:28:32,420 --> 01:28:33,920
You have now died.

1756
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:37,320
There is a thing called guided view or there was a thing

1757
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:37,920
called guided view.

1758
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:39,320
I think it's gone now, right?

1759
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:42,920
It is not as it once was again rest in peace.

1760
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:48,720
So guided view in comics ology meant that even though you're

1761
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:51,220
looking on your phone, which is not big enough to do a full

1762
01:28:51,220 --> 01:28:54,320
comics page and be able to appreciate it as you swipe

1763
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:55,620
across like you're turning pages.

1764
01:28:55,620 --> 01:28:58,820
It will focus in on individual panels.

1765
01:28:58,820 --> 01:29:02,920
So you get a nice close-up view and you can read everything

1766
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:05,620
and then it will zoom out and open up so you can see more

1767
01:29:05,620 --> 01:29:09,520
of the page and you basically go down like you're holding the

1768
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:13,320
page up really close to your face and not only is that a way

1769
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:18,120
to make it accessible to people who are reading on their phone

1770
01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:18,820
on the bus.

1771
01:29:18,820 --> 01:29:22,420
It's actually sometimes legitimately a better way to

1772
01:29:22,420 --> 01:29:26,120
experience comic books because someone like me Duncan my eye

1773
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:27,120
is prone to wonder.

1774
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:30,720
I often ruin stuff myself on a comics page because I open a

1775
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:31,220
page.

1776
01:29:31,220 --> 01:29:34,820
I read everything at once and I ruined the pacing of jokes or

1777
01:29:34,820 --> 01:29:37,520
like I ruin a surprise that's coming on the next page.

1778
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:42,420
But if I get guided view, I get to just read it piece by piece

1779
01:29:42,420 --> 01:29:45,620
as the author intended and that's great until we get to this

1780
01:29:45,620 --> 01:29:49,520
section of comic book where it just stops working.

1781
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:53,120
They would just open up with a full establishing shot of the

1782
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:57,020
full page so you can see everything and then if it

1783
01:29:57,020 --> 01:30:00,820
did zoom in sometimes it was just like half the page is

1784
01:30:00,820 --> 01:30:07,020
shown or like it's literally out of frame like you would just

1785
01:30:07,020 --> 01:30:09,920
see like half a text box being cut off sloppy.

1786
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:10,920
I bought it.

1787
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:11,920
I wasted my money.

1788
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:14,820
I skimmed through that section bail it died and I was like

1789
01:30:14,820 --> 01:30:15,920
eh, whatever.

1790
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:19,420
It's what killed it and it's actually why despite the fact

1791
01:30:19,420 --> 01:30:21,420
that obviously from a modern reader's perspective, I would

1792
01:30:21,420 --> 01:30:23,620
recommend Dark Horse over the original Marvel.

1793
01:30:23,620 --> 01:30:26,620
There's still that little bit of me that goes to the original

1794
01:30:26,620 --> 01:30:28,720
Marvel when Belit died Duncan.

1795
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:29,720
Did you shed a tear?

1796
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:32,220
I have to be like, yeah Roy got me.

1797
01:30:32,220 --> 01:30:33,520
He got me good.

1798
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:36,720
That is the only thing that you've ever explained to me

1799
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:38,820
about the Marvel run has made me actually interested in

1800
01:30:38,820 --> 01:30:39,320
reading it.

1801
01:30:39,320 --> 01:30:41,820
So I may pinch that from you at some point in the future.

1802
01:30:41,820 --> 01:30:44,520
So that is Dark Horse.

1803
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:45,620
We can gush about it.

1804
01:30:45,620 --> 01:30:47,920
It's a little hard to come by now, but Marvel did collect

1805
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,720
in epic collection format and Dark Horse did their own

1806
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:54,420
omnibuses and volumes is worth seeking out if you are a fan.

1807
01:30:54,420 --> 01:30:58,520
Then we did move over the rights went back to Marvel for

1808
01:30:58,520 --> 01:30:59,020
a little bit.

1809
01:30:59,020 --> 01:31:03,020
They didn't adapt any of the do so they didn't do adaptations

1810
01:31:03,020 --> 01:31:04,620
of any of the Robert E. Howard stuff again.

1811
01:31:04,620 --> 01:31:08,720
They got Conan quite marvellized.

1812
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:10,120
They did Savage Avengers.

1813
01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:11,120
They brought into the modern day.

1814
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:12,520
It was a very weird four years.

1815
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:17,220
I think it's 2019 to like 2003.

1816
01:31:17,220 --> 01:31:18,320
Was it even that long?

1817
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:19,920
2023 you mean?

1818
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:20,520
Yes.

1819
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:22,920
I don't know.

1820
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:24,620
I only read some of those stories.

1821
01:31:24,620 --> 01:31:25,520
They were okay.

1822
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:27,820
I never read any of the modern stuff because I was like I

1823
01:31:27,820 --> 01:31:29,720
have better things to do with my time.

1824
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:33,920
Yeah, they did a real good like for everything at the wall.

1825
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:36,620
They tried to this thing with a good age of Conan where

1826
01:31:36,620 --> 01:31:39,420
they'd have other characters like Valeria and Bailey to

1827
01:31:39,420 --> 01:31:42,020
be the leads of the comics and I love this concept.

1828
01:31:42,020 --> 01:31:44,420
I think I boring age is a cool setting that can be explored

1829
01:31:44,420 --> 01:31:45,320
through other characters.

1830
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:46,420
It's just yet to be done.

1831
01:31:46,420 --> 01:31:50,420
Well anywhere unless it's being Dungeon Mastered by you.

1832
01:31:50,420 --> 01:31:51,720
Absolutely.

1833
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:52,620
Thank you, Geordie.

1834
01:31:52,620 --> 01:31:53,820
That is the right answer.

1835
01:31:53,820 --> 01:31:55,420
You'll get another session one day.

1836
01:31:55,420 --> 01:32:00,320
So then pushing on because I don't want to waste time end

1837
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:02,320
of the Marvel run when it returned after it.

1838
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:06,220
So when Marvel Dark Horse Marvel a great writer called

1839
01:32:06,220 --> 01:32:10,420
Jim Zub came along and he wrote the last of 12 issues of

1840
01:32:10,420 --> 01:32:13,020
that Marvel run and they are very good.

1841
01:32:13,020 --> 01:32:15,620
The last sort of eight fantastic.

1842
01:32:15,620 --> 01:32:18,320
He really hit his stride and then he was cut down.

1843
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:21,520
They saw the rights were taken away from them again Marvel.

1844
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:24,320
I don't think they didn't renew the rights is their correct

1845
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:28,520
term phrase and you're like, oh no, but Jim Zub he had such

1846
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:29,320
good ideas.

1847
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:30,320
What's going to happen?

1848
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:33,220
Well, the new rights holders at Titan.

1849
01:32:33,220 --> 01:32:37,620
They went hey Jim, you got a lot of Conan stories planned

1850
01:32:37,620 --> 01:32:40,020
and he went yes and they're like cool you want to write

1851
01:32:40,020 --> 01:32:43,020
for us and he went yes and here we are today.

1852
01:32:43,020 --> 01:32:46,020
Let me just quickly file off some names.

1853
01:32:46,020 --> 01:32:46,520
All right.

1854
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:47,420
We're good to go.

1855
01:32:47,420 --> 01:32:51,420
These are wink wink totally original stories that I was

1856
01:32:51,420 --> 01:32:53,020
not trying to sell to Marvel.

1857
01:32:53,020 --> 01:32:55,420
I'm sure that wasn't the case, but you know what if it was

1858
01:32:55,420 --> 01:32:58,520
Grand tradition, let's rename some things.

1859
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:00,720
Let's make some edits.

1860
01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:05,120
Yes, but this is something he came up with and it's still

1861
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:08,720
using Conan, but that's a whole kettle of fish and the new

1862
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:11,920
run is a great way to start and get onto its original stories.

1863
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:15,520
Some of the artwork really invokes a blend of that classic

1864
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:18,320
Marvel stuff at John Buscema and a more modern approach.

1865
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:21,420
They've also done savage sort of Conan the black and white

1866
01:33:21,420 --> 01:33:23,620
magazine from like 75.

1867
01:33:23,620 --> 01:33:24,720
It's back.

1868
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:25,820
I have like three issues.

1869
01:33:25,820 --> 01:33:28,420
They're doing a black and white magazine again, Geordie and

1870
01:33:28,420 --> 01:33:29,120
it's amazing.

1871
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:32,420
I did not know that it is incredible.

1872
01:33:32,420 --> 01:33:34,320
If you they're doing some collections, they're free issues

1873
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:36,320
per collection, but they're releasing black and white

1874
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:36,920
magazine.

1875
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:38,720
So you get a black and white Conan story.

1876
01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:42,220
You get a poem with an illustrated picture.

1877
01:33:42,220 --> 01:33:45,720
You get a short story and then at the back of the issue you

1878
01:33:45,720 --> 01:33:48,920
get a section of a Solomon Kane story.

1879
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:51,320
At least that's how the first three issues have been paced

1880
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:52,820
and they've been incredible.

1881
01:33:52,820 --> 01:33:57,720
So basically they said what's our business model going to be?

1882
01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:01,520
Well, I think we should specifically pitch this series at

1883
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:02,420
Duncan Nichol.

1884
01:34:02,420 --> 01:34:05,420
I think he'll like it and if anyone else buys it, that's

1885
01:34:05,420 --> 01:34:05,720
okay.

1886
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:07,020
Very much the case.

1887
01:34:07,020 --> 01:34:09,220
I literally went into a comic book shop and I was like: “do

1888
01:34:09,220 --> 01:34:11,420
you have the new issue?” and he's like guy was like: “yeah, we

1889
01:34:11,420 --> 01:34:12,220
have all of them.

1890
01:34:12,220 --> 01:34:12,920
No one's buying them.”

1891
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:16,420
Like “I will take every issue you have,” not multiples.

1892
01:34:16,420 --> 01:34:16,820
Obviously.

1893
01:34:16,820 --> 01:34:18,920
I was just like, “yeah, if you got issue one, two, three, I'll

1894
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:19,520
just take a lot.

1895
01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:20,820
Come on find them.”

1896
01:34:21,420 --> 01:34:23,420
The guy was so keen because he went through a shop and was

1897
01:34:23,420 --> 01:34:24,820
like, “I know I have issue three.

1898
01:34:24,820 --> 01:34:26,620
I can't…. no…. you said you would buy it.

1899
01:34:26,620 --> 01:34:27,920
I will find it for you.”

1900
01:34:28,020 --> 01:34:31,420
And he literally made me give him my number and he was like,

1901
01:34:31,420 --> 01:34:32,320
“how long are you in town?”

1902
01:34:32,320 --> 01:34:33,720
I'm like, “I don't know? For the next three hours?”

1903
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:36,520
He's like, “I will ring you if I find it.”

1904
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:37,620
Wow.

1905
01:34:38,620 --> 01:34:40,020
So that's that man.

1906
01:34:40,020 --> 01:34:42,820
He needed to his craft. He needed to sit in stock.

1907
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:45,520
I will say this.

1908
01:34:45,820 --> 01:34:49,520
So you just reminded me of my comic book story regarding

1909
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:53,720
Conan, which is no way nothing like yours because when I was

1910
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,820
living in America, I was had an amazing comic shop near me

1911
01:34:58,020 --> 01:35:01,120
and I wouldn't know all the time and I was reading stuff.

1912
01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:02,320
I'd never read before.

1913
01:35:03,220 --> 01:35:05,920
I wasn't picking up any series that I was like actually

1914
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:08,720
invested in like even like manga I was reading.

1915
01:35:08,720 --> 01:35:11,820
I was dropping, but what I got really into was I just started

1916
01:35:11,820 --> 01:35:15,720
picking up indie comic books and what started to happen is

1917
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:18,620
the guys who run the store are such cool guys.

1918
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:22,720
Sometimes when you buy books, they have paid attention to

1919
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:26,520
what you are reading and they just throw in a free first issue

1920
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:28,620
of a comic book and they're like you want to read more of

1921
01:35:28,620 --> 01:35:31,020
this right and I'm like hell yeah, and that's how we end

1922
01:35:31,020 --> 01:35:35,220
up reading a lot of like feminist sports comic books.

1923
01:35:36,020 --> 01:35:37,520
I can't remember the names of many of them because I don't

1924
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:40,220
think they were that successful, but I had a really great time.

1925
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:45,020
And so one day when a new Conan comic book came out, I'm

1926
01:35:45,020 --> 01:35:46,520
like, oh I’ll take it.

1927
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:47,820
I put it down on the counter.

1928
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:52,920
The guy looks down and says “Conan?! From you?!” and he was so

1929
01:35:53,020 --> 01:35:54,420
shocked and appalled.

1930
01:35:54,620 --> 01:35:58,020
It was so unlike everything else I'd ever purchased from him.

1931
01:36:00,420 --> 01:36:04,520
That's that classic masculine toxic masculine representation

1932
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:05,720
coming through exactly.

1933
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:08,520
Like wow, I thought this guy was pretty woke, but I guess

1934
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:08,820
not.

1935
01:36:08,820 --> 01:36:09,520
Geez.

1936
01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:13,620
Anyway, anyway, let's move to a wrap up because we have

1937
01:36:13,620 --> 01:36:16,420
rambled on about our love for long enough.

1938
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:21,120
So to answer to your question, Kilhouser, what do I read

1939
01:36:21,620 --> 01:36:23,220
after the Robert E Howard stuff?

1940
01:36:23,420 --> 01:36:25,620
Well, firstly glad you read it.

1941
01:36:25,620 --> 01:36:27,720
If you haven't read it and you're listening read it.

1942
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:29,820
If you want to know what happens next and you've heard

1943
01:36:29,820 --> 01:36:33,020
that whole long story of publication history and comics

1944
01:36:33,020 --> 01:36:35,320
and books and you're just like I don't I don't know guys.

1945
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:36,420
This is too much.

1946
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:37,720
I'm in the car.

1947
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:40,320
I can't remember anything you said Duncan keeps throwing

1948
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:42,820
out Conan the and random words.

1949
01:36:42,820 --> 01:36:44,020
What do I buy?

1950
01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:48,220
This is what you buy people you go to your local water

1951
01:36:48,220 --> 01:36:51,420
stones or whatever your main brand bookshop is these days.

1952
01:36:51,720 --> 01:36:55,720
Maybe I'm not selling any of these water stones quite

1953
01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:56,220
possible.

1954
01:36:56,420 --> 01:37:00,720
Most certainly right you go and buy Conan and the City of

1955
01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:02,220
the Dead by John C.

1956
01:37:02,220 --> 01:37:02,820
Hocking.

1957
01:37:03,020 --> 01:37:03,820
You get to go.

1958
01:37:03,820 --> 01:37:05,120
One might be in one.

1959
01:37:06,020 --> 01:37:08,520
It's fantastic better off going to forbidden Planet if you're

1960
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:13,520
in the UK then if you want to dig a little deeper, I highly

1961
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:18,920
recommend you go and read Conan the Road of Kings by Carl

1962
01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:19,420
Wagner.

1963
01:37:19,620 --> 01:37:21,820
It's a little harder to come by but you should be I find

1964
01:37:21,820 --> 01:37:24,920
it quite cheaply in youth bookstores across countries.

1965
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:28,920
You go and read Conan the swordsman to get a good idea

1966
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:32,420
of short story collections by the camp and link art and

1967
01:37:32,420 --> 01:37:37,220
just that era get flavour for that era you go and read Conan

1968
01:37:37,220 --> 01:37:39,220
and the sorcerer by Andrew off it.

1969
01:37:39,220 --> 01:37:40,720
You do not read anything else by him.

1970
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:44,520
They're very much bad in comparison to the first one.

1971
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:51,920
And finally you go and read any Conan and this is a bit

1972
01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:55,920
of a cheat by Robert Jordan or John Roberts.

1973
01:37:56,220 --> 01:37:57,520
Both of them did an excellent job.

1974
01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:00,220
Robert Jordan is much easier to come by because it's available

1975
01:38:00,220 --> 01:38:04,920
on Kindle very rare for any Conan past day to be there and

1976
01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:10,520
you give that a shot and then finally on will mention you

1977
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:14,620
go and read any Conan comic ever, you know who you are.

1978
01:38:14,620 --> 01:38:16,520
You know what your taste in comic books are.

1979
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:22,720
If you want a beautifully coloured detailed bloody adaptation

1980
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:23,220
of Robert E.

1981
01:38:23,220 --> 01:38:26,320
How his work you go and be Dark Horse and you accept that

1982
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:29,920
after 80 issues of amazing this it falls off a bit it picks

1983
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:33,020
up a little their King Conan is also pretty solid.

1984
01:38:33,020 --> 01:38:35,520
If you know that you love that Saturday morning cartoon

1985
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:39,120
vibe, you'd love 70s comics Bronze Age comics Marvel has

1986
01:38:39,120 --> 01:38:41,720
got you covered and if you just want something that's coming

1987
01:38:41,720 --> 01:38:44,920
out and it's fresh and you want to part the site guys going

1988
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:49,220
by Titan read any Conan comic but not the Samarian.

1989
01:38:49,220 --> 01:38:51,020
I actually quite like the Samarian but I'm not going to

1990
01:38:51,020 --> 01:38:51,320
get into that.

1991
01:38:51,320 --> 01:38:52,320
I hate it.

1992
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:57,420
Oh and before we leave the Samarian has reminded me that

1993
01:38:57,420 --> 01:39:00,420
Conan's in the public domain in Europe. So we don't have

1994
01:39:00,420 --> 01:39:05,120
to care anymore about rights and IP write your own story.

1995
01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:07,720
That's how you got to read more Conan make and fight

1996
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:10,520
xenomorphs like that one up run fanfiction.

1997
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:11,920
I tried to read an archive.

1998
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:15,420
Org because I was interested to see what Conan short stories

1999
01:39:15,420 --> 01:39:18,420
people writing fan fiction about today and I don't think

2000
01:39:18,420 --> 01:39:21,520
any of it is any good in the words of Carl Wagner.

2001
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:28,020
And I'll insert the quote.

2002
01:39:28,020 --> 01:39:31,320
Okay.

2003
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:33,320
Well, I've been your host Geordie Bailey.

2004
01:39:33,320 --> 01:39:36,220
I love episodes where I don't have to do any reading or

2005
01:39:36,220 --> 01:39:40,420
research in advance and I think Duncan Nicoll I am exhausted

2006
01:39:40,420 --> 01:39:43,820
and cannot wait to get back to a racial kind of say things

2007
01:39:43,820 --> 01:39:46,420
anymore and I'm Duncan Nick and I cannot wait to get back

2008
01:39:46,420 --> 01:39:50,220
to a regular schedule for viewing just one book instead

2009
01:39:50,220 --> 01:39:53,820
of trying to review 70 of novels that I have read over

2010
01:39:53,820 --> 01:39:55,020
the past decade.

2011
01:39:55,320 --> 01:39:57,520
Dear God, it's become a confused mess.

2012
01:39:57,920 --> 01:39:58,820
I'm sorry.

2013
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:00,420
I hope you've enjoyed listening.

2014
01:40:01,020 --> 01:40:01,720
So long.

2015
01:40:02,620 --> 01:40:03,520
Bye.

2016
01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:05,420
Thank you again.

2017
01:40:05,420 --> 01:40:06,320
Fair listeners.

2018
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:09,920
We look forward to being back with you again when we discuss

2019
01:40:10,420 --> 01:40:14,520
The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle and maybe Priory of the

2020
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:18,120
Orange Tree. We’ll see. I'm gonna I'll try I'll try and finish

2021
01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:18,420
it.

2022
01:40:18,420 --> 01:40:20,320
All right, so long.