Hello and welcome to another episode of Is This Just Fantasy?
If a podcast were every other week, two nerds get together to rate, read and review a fantasy
novel.
I'm your host, Geordie Bailey.
And I'm the man that murdered the king.
Vive la révolution.
Duncan Nicoll.
Duncan, I've gotten so good at that new intro.
I used to have to do so many takes to not stumble over it completely.
Don't praise yourself too much.
I did have to correct you and remind you to do it.
You wanted to tell the audience that.
Okay, that's true.
Hello everyone.
Welcome to this week's episode of Is This Just Fantasy?
We're talking about Brian McClellan's The Promise of Blood, the first in the Powder Mage
Trilogy.
Speaking of errors, Duncan and I were saying to each other back and forth for maybe a full
30 seconds, McClellan, McClellan, not McClellan as we said in a previous episode.
I feel very much shame about that.
I just can't get Ian out of my head.
But yes.
Yeah, Brian, Ian, even the first names are similar.
There's conspiracy theory in that.
But Geordie, before we get into this book, let's just go over, as usual, have you read
or watched or experienced anything else you want to talk about?
Funnily enough, yes.
It hasn't actually been that long since we recorded our previous episode, not the full
two weeks as normal.
However, I have actually started reading something new and interesting.
I've recently been doing a lot more and this is quite unusual for me.
I've been reading more nonfiction.
Sacre bleu.
Sacre bleu indeed, yeah.
Not like me at all.
But I've been listening to, and this has been a long, long reading experience.
It's like three times the length of Dune.
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by, oh fuck, someone.
I'll edit that in.
William L. Schreier.
And the book Mindhunter, which is the inspiration for the TV show.
A TV show that I love, it's great.
And the book is quite different, but it's really interesting nonetheless.
That is very different.
I suppose it, just to be clear, it takes a very much anti-it-was-a-bad-thing stance.
The Third Reich?
Yes, Duncan.
It's very opposed to the Third Reich.
Good, good.
Just gotta check on these things.
Yeah.
Actually, the funny thing I noticed about it is that when I was reading the early part
of the book, I was like, holy shit, this is the source for everything I was reading during
like Year 10 history.
Like I recognize these sources almost verbatim.
Well, that's always fun, is you find like the key text, everyone's like, okay, we're
gonna reference this.
Yeah, it's a really significant text because the guy himself who wrote it, and again, I'm
sorry I don't remember his name.
Here it is again.
William L. Schreier.
He was an active journalist living in Berlin during like the rise of Hitler in the Second
World War.
So not only does it contain like his memories of hearing actual speeches like at the Reichstag,
but like his personal diary entries that he can go back through and remember what he was
thinking, like in the lead up to Kristallnacht.
That is very intense, but I do think it's actually can be very good to read about real
world history, particularly when we enjoy so much fantasy literature that is either
inspired by real events or set to certain backdrops, sometimes to seek sort of the real
world implications of certain ideologies and what can actually happen.
So many times, you know, there's a rhetoric about, you know, that's fantastical or that's
ridiculous and you're like, I think you'll find some truly insane stuff has actually
happened in real life.
That, I mean, there's no question of that.
And the best thing about it is that like this author is really focused on the boring stuff.
Like there are lengthy, lengthy sections where he just talks about what different German
and Russian and British diplomats are doing, like in the lead up to World War Two.
Like this material is like extremely dry.
It's all about people setting up meetings and like the minutes taken from meetings and
what people claim happened later when they talk about it at Nuremberg.
And they say, I never actually went to that meeting.
That's nonsense.
But this guy is clearly so invested in making sure that this is recorded and that it's commented
on that it's really fascinating.
I mean, I'm so glad you enjoyed it.
Take it you recommend it.
It's hard to say recommended.
Again, so I'm listening to this as an audiobook and I think that's the only way I could possibly
read this.
There's no way.
I mean, I could probably scarcely lift the book.
The audiobook is 52 hours long and Dune was 24 hours long to give you an example of comparison.
I mean, I think my longest audiobook I have on Audible is The Way of Kings and I think
that comes in at like 40 something 46, 48.
That's not a surprise.
So that is incredible.
Geordie, I feel really kind of awkward right now because I've now got to segue over to
what I've been reading and it's totally quite different.
Oh, because yours was, hey, Nazism was great actually.
No, no, no.
It's more that yours is very serious and mine is very ridiculous.
Geordie, have you ever heard of the character Groo the Wanderer?
I have not heard of Groo the Wanderer.
It's a comic book character by a Spanish Mexican comic book writer and artist, Sergio Aragonis.
I'm so sorry.
I probably definitely pronounced that wrong.
And I guess you can describe it as a Conan parody at some point, but it's a larger parody
for life and it's about a very stupid character who's like a barbarian figure, fights with
like dual swords.
He has a little dog companion called Roberto and it's just stupid adventure parody, parodying
fantasy, parodying real world politics, parodying religion.
So it has like really clever commentary at some point and it also has some really just
stupid bits of our main character who is in the search for the world's greatest cheese
dip.
And at one point to stop him causing a ruckus, the priests, what they do, they write a sign
pointing the greatest cheese dip in the world and they just put them around a lake and he
just walks in circles for multiple days.
Well that does sound a little silly, I have to admit.
It's genuinely, it's like if I guess Asterix and Obelisk met, I don't know, the Beano.
I did get a slightly Asterisk feel, Asterisk, Asterix feel to that story, especially the
cheese dip thing because when I was a little boy, my dad would, like this is before I even
learned to read, but he would prop me up next to him and he would read me the Asterix stories
and one of my most favourites was like Asterix in Switzerland and it's a bit in that where
there's a very lengthy callback joke to these Romans doing an absolutely ginormous cheese
fondue like in a huge cauldron that could contain a person.
I mean yes, that is exactly at home in these comics and his dog companion is just like
Nasher if Nasher had an eternal voice from Dennis the Menace and I don't know why I'm
like, I love them so much, but there was a crossover with Conan once and the way the artist
decided to do it is that the comic was framed with the meta narrative of him trying to pitch
the idea to like the comic, the board of governors at Dark Horse and then being like that's so
stupid and him going no wait, wait, wait and then all the artwork is done so that the Conan
sections are done super like realistic and invoking that early like first 50 issues of
the Dark Horse era which are amazing written by Kurt Baziuk and Carrie Nord.
I'm so sorry for saying your names wrong.
I'm pretty sure it's Baziuk isn't it?
Probably.
Maybe.
Apologies again.
Anyway, they're really stupid and if you love like the Beano or Conan and just want to see
that sort of take on like a fighting character, go have fun, there are loads of them on Kindle.
It's really actually hard to find the older stuff, I will say, it's like not available
digitally.
What is the older stuff?
Like the 80s?
I believe the character debut in the early 90s.
I think the biggest run was in like the mid 90s with Marvel for like 120 issues, then
he sort of went dead throughout the noughties and then since the tens there's been sort
of a consistent Dark Horse have the license and they're kind of putting out instead of
like a continuous comic book series, they'll do like four issues a year and then they'll
get collected in a trade for that year and that'll be like one complete story arc.
I don't recommend, just stupid fun.
What isn't just stupid fun though, it has some genuinely smart ideas.
It's a promise of blood.
Hooray!
We're on to it.
Okay so this is a book series that is a classic genre, not of book, but of the narrative around
books, which is that Geordie Bailey hears about it on Reddit a lot and yet doesn't know
anything about it except that people seem to like it and he knows what books it tends
to get compared to.
Interesting, I don't think I'm as aware of that.
I assume it's in a very similar space to the Joe Abercrombie, the Mark Lawrence, I would
say Brandon Sanderson but everyone just seems to recommend it.
I've seen genuine posts where people are like, I really enjoyed the Wizard of Ersi, what
do you recommend?
And people go Brandon Sanderson.
I'm like, that's not what?
It's like One Piece among manga fans.
If someone likes One Piece they will let you know.
That and Jojo.
But yeah, I assume, am I right then?
You're dead on the money.
That's what they compare it to.
And also anytime someone's like, I want a slightly different take on magic and technology,
they go straight to the Powder Mage.
And I found out why.
Right from the start.
I don't really know why, but just knowing that it was about wizards and gunpowder, I
think something about that, some part of me was just a meegee like, I don't know about
this, even not really knowing what it entailed, I just was set up at once to be a bit anti-it.
So the book had to clear a bit of a hurdle right away.
Because I was like, I don't know if I like these ideas, I don't know if I think they're
gonna mesh.
And also, and also I think it goes to a slightly industrial punk, like Victorian energy, which
I'm very wary of.
I feel like so many people go to that well, as a sort of plentiful aesthetic, thinking
of Dishonored and the Gutter Prayer especially.
And I've been burnt by those so many times, especially by something like the Gutter Prayer.
So I was really worried it was gonna be like that.
Here's a little bit of a dark stain.
I love Dishonored and I do really enjoy this aesthetic, personally.
And I told you, we read the Gutter Prayer, I was like, I'm prepared to forgive it a lot
because I kind of like the vibe.
I think my only reservation, my fear, is that it almost seemed too, I don't know, is it
edgy?
Is it too much like, because I'm a big fan talking about like musketry.
I love the Sharks book by Bernard Cornwell.
Yeah.
Dore them.
But they were very much my teenage years.
And I think that's just given a slight colouration to anything else set in that entire era.
I know, it's unfair and a bit silly of me, but that's kind of where I was also coming
from.
This sat on my to read list.
I've owned this book, Geordie, for like three years.
I've just never quite gotten around to it.
I knew I wanted to buy it because I knew I wanted to read it.
But never quite-
Yeah, Command 2012.
It's not a new book.
Yeah.
It never quite got to the top of my list.
There was always something that I was just a little bit more interested in or I was like,
oh, yeah, I'll read that later.
Let's try this out instead.
But I've got the podcast.
I wanted to get around to it.
I wanted to share it with you, experience it together.
Geordie, before we kind of explain the actual premise of the book and what's going on, what
did you think?
Come on.
You had the premonitions.
You were a bit worried.
Did it manage it?
Did it win you over?
For the most part, I really like this book.
There's a lot of stuff in here that's a winner for me.
It's not a slam dunk.
It's not a home run, but it's a really good book and I enjoyed it a great deal.
I couldn't agree more.
This book, I really enjoyed because I loved so many elements of it.
And I'm going to throw this phrase out there like immediately because this was generally
my first thought when I finished the book.
And by the way, I appreciate this is part of a trilogy.
We are just judging the first book as it stands in the first book because one, that's all
we've read.
And also I do think it's fair enough to judge a book as a complete package because that's
what you paid for.
For sure.
You choose whether to continue the series or not based on where the first one was good.
I would, Jimmy, my golden phrase for this book is that it wasn't quite greater than
the sum of its parts, but the sum of its parts is still really high.
That makes sense.
I kind of see what you're going for there.
I would say I would describe it as a book with so many really great elements that is
let down by a couple of disappointments.
Stuff that I expect sort of similar stuff to what weighed down something like Malice by
John Gwyn, but less so, much less so, like in a much smaller amounts than Malice.
So for example, it's a long book, maybe longer than it needs to be.
I kind of like some of the parts which are like really long.
Maybe there are too many characters, just like in Malice by John Gwyn.
Maybe it's a little bit misogynistic in parts, not maliciously, but just sort of by default.
Similar issues to something like Malice by John Gwyn.
It certainly sits, and I know this is very wide scale, but it definitely sits above my
enjoyment for Malice, but I couldn't let go of the fact that it wasn't quite hitting
best serve cold.
I was like, it's not, it's just not quite clinching it, and it's not only in the moment
to moment, but also how it all came together.
So Malice by John Gwyn, I think was second to last in all of the books we read in our
top 50, and best serve cold was between like three and five.
So that's a pretty big range.
And it falls definitely somewhere in between, but let me explain to the readers who may,
listeners, sorry, who maybe have not read this book.
The Powder Maze trilogy is the story of a magical land where a god has left thousands
of years ago, and before he left he established nine dynasties to rule over the nine realms.
Kingship, magic, and goodness.
This is the story of where the land has got to that kind of industrial revolution.
Gunpowder has become a thing, and all the power no longer sits in the hands of kings
and their circle of magicians.
This story opens where one man has had enough, and with his powder mages, who were different
to magicians, we'll talk about that more later, like traditional magic users, him and
his guards of musket men storm the palace, kill all the wizards, capture the king, and
form a republic.
Riva la revolution.
That's right.
So you say in industrial age, and we should be very precise, this is pre-industrial, it's
very very much drawn on the era of French revolution.
Like that's when we are, we're in the 1770s.
So like the industrial age is like 40, 50 years from now, it's coming up fast.
It's not quite here yet.
And this is the kickoff, this is the opening chapter, and then from there we kind of follow
three principal POV characters.
My personal favourite, the character of Tamas, who is the man who led the revolution, who
now sits at the top.
He controls the powder mages, he controls the military in this land.
We follow the character of Adamat, who is a detective hired by Tamas to unravel some
of the last mysteries of the wizards.
Why are they caught in this?
The royal cabal is what the groups are.
The privileged.
Great bit on the nose.
Yes, a bit on the nose, that's the first problem I had with this book.
Three hungry games, but we'll come back to that later.
We got Adamat, as you say, he's the detective, there's a mystery in this book and he's the
main perspective character for that.
And the final one, Taniel?
Yes, Taniel, like Daniel of a T.
And he is Tamas' son.
And he, I'm not going to lie, for the opening bits of this story, doesn't quite know what
he's doing, but eventually he is sent off on a faraway quest to hunt down the last of
the privileged in the kingdom, a man who unfortunately is also Taniel's best childhood chum.
And he gets on a, his story is probably the most twisty-windy, he goes on the most traditional
quest.
Yes, he goes on a quest and he's very, very action focused.
And actually, now there are more perspective characters, like there's this one lady who's
like a maid and she bears witness and she provides an important perspective for some
of the book as a representative of the royalists as opposed to the revolutionaries.
But it's not, it's noteworthy as we are telling this story.
I'm like, okay, this is a lot of perspective characters.
All of them are men so far.
I wonder if you're going to get a feminine perspective.
Okay, here's our one female character.
She has far, far fewer chapters than the men.
Alright, but she doesn't really have that much to do in the story.
She's kind of a minor player.
Oh yes, and now she's vanished for a really big portion of the book.
Oh, and she's back.
Yes, she's back at the end.
Oh, and now her story is getting exciting.
She's really going to make a decisive decision within the plot.
And oh, I guess it didn't really actually matter.
Like she didn't really have any agency in the end.
And she vanishes.
And her fate is uncertain by the end of the book.
Okay, well that was a bit weird, wasn't it?
Summed up beautifully, it's one of those little plot elements which, on the one hand, I'm
like, you could have cut this, but I know it's in here because this probably is going
to be a bigger thing in the sequel, if I had to guess.
Probably.
A lot of set up.
Not a lot of really interesting stuff going with her.
Such to the point, I do not remember her name.
It's Neela.
Neela, thank you Duncan.
So yes, we have these different point of view characters to provide us not only different
perspectives on what's going on, on the unfolding of this revolution, but actually each character
kind of provides a different type of drama.
So Tamas is a field marshal.
So previously he was a really important figure within the country's military, and now he's
a revolutionary.
And now he's doing politics.
He is still doing field marshal stuff.
He's leading troops, he's directing stuff.
But actually, most of the stuff that comes across his desk tends to be just like, oh
man, I can't piss off this faction, and I have to deal with these threats from outside,
and I need to make these big decisions, and I have to balance my moral code against what
I have to do for the greater good.
So that's a lot of interesting drama.
Again, like you, I think Tamas was my favourite character in this book.
He's very well written.
And then you get a different experience where you say Adamat is going to be this detective
character.
There's a mystery, and he is the one who's going to go out and puzzle around.
Okay, great.
So settings like this, like fantasy and historical books, they gel really well with mysteries,
because mysteries are evergreen stories.
In any time period, the past, the present, the future, in the fantastical and the strange
and the nonsensical, so much of actual just regular storytelling is about mysteries.
You can ask J.J. Abrams about that in his mystery boxes.
So a detective is a great character to follow wherever you are.
Just makes sense.
It does.
And it also gives you the opportunity, because he's interviewing all these different characters,
you can then get loads and loads of perspectives in.
That's true.
And different insights to a huge cross-section of people that are living in this society.
So that's amazing.
And then you have Tanil.
Taniel.
And I really want to say it like, what?
Tanil?
Taniel.
So it's not what I said.
Taniel.
And I really want to see like kind of off the cusp, because here's one.
God he was not my favourite.
By a long shot.
Yeah, I enjoyed a lot of his chapters.
I liked the fight scenes he was in.
But, it was a bit repetitive.
Like I could only see that guy snort gunpowder so many times, and we'll get into how fucking
cool it is that you have these people who just eat and smoke a gunpowder to get their magic.
But yeah, I feel like that character goes the most in circles, and I like the fact that he's
actually a part of a sustained war campaign and not just doing one-off adventures. He's actually
holding the line somewhere and he has a lot of places to go. That's all good stuff.
But nonetheless, as you say, definitely not quite as interesting as the other two.
Geordie, sometimes I feel like when you have a book that's very mixed or very good with some minor
faults, that's actually the hardest one for me to sit here and critique because I don't want to
oversell it and be like, this is why it's awful. But also so much of what I maybe didn't enjoy in
this book is very subtle. It can be a little sense of like, well, that scene, just the pacing in that
scene was just a bit awful. That character was a bit extraneous or elements where it's like, oh,
well, that didn't quite gel together. All these plot threads, just too many plots as for left
hanging that I didn't really feel that this book worked on its own. And it's really challenging
to now recount to someone listening why I didn't love it while at the same time wanting to be like,
oh no, I still enjoyed it. You should give it a go.
Yeah, it is difficult because I want to give this book its fair shake down, both in terms of the
stuff I really liked and the stuff that I felt like it could have improved upon. I really want
to make clear way more good stuff than bad. It can be really easy in doing a critique to focus
in on the bad stuff because that's what you can get energized about. So I really want to start,
I think, before we're mean to this book and we talk about some of the stuff in it, that's a bit
of a letdown, we should hone in on some of the cool shit first and really give it the enthusiasm
it deserves. So Duncan, could you just talk to me about what is a Powder Mage and why is it very,
very cool? Powder Mages are a subset of magic users in this world. What makes them firstly,
this book outright says no one really knows how why Powder Mages work, that we don't understand
their magic. It's different to traditional magic. They just can. And what they do is they enter the
Powder Trance when they either digest or snort gunpowder, they go into this hyper state where
they can move quicker, their reflexes are faster, their healing is improved. Well, what's more is
that they can ignite sources of gunpowder that they can sense in their surroundings. And not only
can they ignite it, but they can take the blast power from gunpowder and redirect it. Yeah,
they control kinetic energy so they can reshape explosions, they can take the energy that is
expressed by igniting gunpowder and just redirect it, push it elsewhere. This is first demonstrated
when the king tries to just shoot Tamas with a gun and Tamas just senses the explosion in the gun
and he takes the energy from behind the bullet and just moves it over to a floor tile. The floor
tile explodes and the bullet just rolls out of the barrel. And this is used in so many creative ways
that is a very sense of, I don't know, this is a great film to be referencing. You ever seen Wanted?
No. Is that the one about curving bullets? Yeah. Yes, there's a lot of curving bullets in this.
And what I do like about this, I like this a lot, even though the actual repertoire of Power
to Mages is pretty limited, they have like basically two powers. They go into a super state
where they're just better at being a human fighter than other people and they can control
kinetic energy from explosions. But all of the characters we see and whose perspective we see,
so Tamas and Taniel and Gloria? Glora? Isn't it V? Isn't it Vlora? Vlora? I listen to the audiobook.
All right, so whatever her name is, Vlora, Gloria. So all three of them have like different ways of
fighting with gunpowder. Tamas's deal is that he's really good at like controlling a lot of objects.
So I think there's a bit where he basically just like, he throws a bunch of bullets into the air,
ignites a ton of gunpowder and just like redirects all the bullets. So they scatter out and hit a bunch of people.
But Taniel's deal is that like he's basically a sniper and his deal is he's so good at controlling
bullets in their flight that he can turn them through multiple people by wobbling them in the air.
And Vlora or Gloria or whatever her name is can ignite gunpowder from like really like triple the
range that she should be able to. So she can cause massive explosions far away.
One of the things I really like about Taniel's power is they make it really clear that when it
comes to going up against like traditional magic users, the privileged, well they can summon huge
balls of fire and fling them through the air. But the thing is, they have nothing to just be hit by
a bullet at long range. They don't know it's coming. And I love this idea of this guy like,
yeah, I just snipe them. The most dangerous, most powerful people in the world. And they have no idea
that death's even coming for them. Exactly, because they have powers at close range that can make walls
of stone and they can harden the air. So when they know you're coming, if you're just like showing up
with them with like a flintlock pistol, you're in trouble. But if they don't know it's coming,
there's a bit later where like, he sort of almost accidentally kills like the most powerful wizard
in like, in the land of Kez. And he doesn't know because he's so far away, he can barely see him.
He just bam, he blasts him. And they're like, dude, do you know who you just fucking shot?
And anyone who's a fan of Benard Cornwells Sharpe novels will appreciate a good rifleman. And I love the
fact that although they have these magical powers, they're still using some of those terminology,
you know, they're still getting guys to form up in lines occasionally, they're still fixing
bayonets and going in. Yeah, so I actually don't have as much experience with like musketry in
books. I haven't read the Sharpe novels. I have failed completely to read the Master and Commander
books. I just can't do it. I'm sorry. I can't read about knots for so long. Yeah, I just haven't
really developed that same appreciation. Okay, a few quick shots at some amazing historical fiction.
Master and Commander books, they're amazing series. They are very different to the Sharpes.
Sharpes, it's more kind of feels like James Bond at points, like Bernard Cornwell knows how to
write good action. You've got a hero, he's going on very over the top adventures quite a lot of
the time, but still a really good appreciation of history. Master and Commander, that's the
name of the first book, I can't remember the name of the whole series. That is like Jane Austen at
point. It's like, I'm going to show you everything this naval officer does from get his promotion
and wonder who he needs to go and like, write a letter to first, his aunt or his uncle, and like
all the way through to hiring the doctor, picking up supplies, doing knots, and like, actually
running a ship. And then we'll have brief moments of genuine combat. And it's like amazing action.
And characters that you've literally seen at like dinner parties die. And then it goes back to like
normal. It's incredibly like, it's like an unedited, this is the life of like a naval seaman.
The book series is called the Aubrey and the basis is mature and martyren novels.
Yes, that's the captain, the commander, and the ship surgeon. They're like, it's that classic
captain and doctor relationship. In fact, it might be one of the best actually, in fiction of like
the one guy who will talk back to the captain when he thinks he's doing too much. And their talks on
like philosophy. Hey, we have one of those in this book. Oh, anyone got to get from somewhere. So
tamas and his bodyguard. I'm realizing how much of his these characters names have forgotten. I did
enjoy this book. But I also read this, like a couple of weeks back was hiking through Sweden.
So maybe my my brain got a bit frazzled. Oh, them. Oh, them. Yes. Their relationship. Very
enjoyable. So Oh, them is so we've got to split another cool magic thing. So it's like three tiers
of magic users in this world. Got the powder majors, they're like mid tier, then you have top
tiers are privileged, they're the traditional wizards. And the lowest level other than that.
These are people that just have one special ability. And in here, we see a couple of characters
with them. We see Oh, them who just doesn't need to sleep. Very useful when you're a bodyguard.
I also see other characters that have like, I didn't like perfect memories. I'm trying to
think about you. What's another one off my head, one person is implied to be able to tell truth
from lies. But then he's lied to and he doesn't realize it. So I don't know what the hell is
going on there. And I think the idea is that these people some of the next to like, kind of just
useless. But yeah, if you got a really handy one, you can be as, I guess, proficient as like a full
pound of age, it just depends on what your neck is. But yes, Oh, them love this relationship.
Because the idea is Tamas he's commander the military, he's just executed all the upper
castes. And I think a lot of people do get the vibe of like, he might just execute us.
Like he put he doesn't we know he won't. Well, we know who Tamas. So the thing about the character
of Tamas, we've talked about him in the abstract and the role he plays in the story and what is
like the decisions he has to make are we actually talked about his character. And what makes Tamas
enjoyable is that one, he does play the role of grizzled experience commander. But he's also
deep down kind of brash and immature. He's a grizzled, angry man, and he's completely ruled
by his passions a huge amount of the time. So most of the conflicts he faces is internal.
It's him vying with what he wants to do, which is often to lose his shit and kick a table with
what he has to do, which is be responsible and give commands when lives are on the line.
This is actually shown to us really sufficiently… sufficiently? Succinctly in the very first chapter,
I believe, where someone's like, are you just doing this because your wife got executed?
And it's literally his like in his thoughts, it just goes, yes. And then he says, no, I am
doing this for the rights of the people and the revolution. And that just tells you, I think,
like he is actually doing this for very personal reasons. He got pissed off. He was wrong personally.
So he's going to kill the people responsible. If that means saving the nation, that is obviously
amazing. And that's what he wants to do. But at the start of this book, he is saving the nation
while fulfilling his own personal goals. And a lot of this book is him trying to reconcile when those
two things start to diverge. What's he going to do? Yeah. And what we get behind here is that book
is about social change. Fundamentally, you know, we have these characters who provide a perspective
on like the different factions at play and they have their little adventures and they're fighting
people and they're shooting their guns, pew pew, pew pew pew. But really what this book is about
is from transition away from the power of royalty. And it does this in a fantasy novel. So there are
plenty of historical novels you can read and not even historical. Lots of sci-fi novels and
dystopian novels are about overthrowing a corrupt system. And sometimes you get those in fantasy as
well, but they tend to be about the wrong person's on the throne. Let's put the right person on the
throne, the rightful heir or maybe a more worthy heir. That's what, you know, children of blood and
bone ended up being, right? In many respects, this book gets to the best idea of blood and bone
immediately, which is once you overthrow the tyrant, what now? And it's really fun to see a book
which is just going to focus on that. It's just going to go, we killed the king. Crap. What do you
do? What do you replace it with? Because it's not, you know, the world isn't as simple as, oh, well,
you've got two choices, complete dictatorship or, you know, traditional modern democracy. Not like
there's only one form of that. There's so many ways this can fall out. And exactly, it's really
nice to see them struggle with it and that it's hard. And that marries really well with the
character of Adamat. So, Tamas has the struggle of, I'm responsible for what's happened. I led
the revolution, which means everything that falls subsequently is on me. So, when there's a royalist
civil war brewing within the city, he has to be responsible for putting it down. But the complexity
of, there are all these different factions which supported Tamas and his powder mages in their coup,
and now they're the new power. You have like a group of mercenaries, you have the unions. This is,
it's really weird to read a fantasy novel where so much of a book is about unions.
No, I loved it. The workers unions and like what powers they're going to have and what role they're
going to play. And that Tamas promised a lot of people, I don't think it's he personally,
but like they all kind of had these ideas of what they were going to get. That's right. Once they
took power. Yeah, Tamas's second chapter is like the previous, I think Mare or something similar
to Mare is like, okay, now about all those powers you're going to give me, Tamas is like, okay,
well, I'm giving you like a third of the money I said I was going to give you. And he's like,
what? But that's not what we agreed. I'm like, yeah, but the church just said I have to pay them
more. So what do you want? It's really nice. Okay, I'm going to reference something now, which seems
a bit stupid. This was a very bad example of trying to do this. Geordi, did you ever play
Fable 3 when you were a kid? I've never played a single Fable game. Fable 3 is a video game, came
out on the Xbox 360, probably the PC as well. And the whole first part of the game is that you're
leading a revolution. And then the whole second part of the game, I say second part, latter fifth,
is the fact that then you're king. And you're like, okay, oh, no, there's like an external threat.
And I need to like build up a super military to combat it. Well, I might not be able to fulfill
all my promises while maintaining a giant army. Yeah, absolutely. What do I do? The horror of
leadership. And what's the great thing about it is that Tomas, in his words, says, I led the revolution,
but I'm not actually interested in leading. That's up to the council, you know, the council that he
appointed and he put together, and where all of them look to him for guidance, and who he takes
unilateral decisions away from. And this is not the book being like unaware that the main character
is like the most important person, he gets to make all the big decisions. No, this is obviously a
really deliberate choice. Tomas is really, really close to just being a dictator. Like, he's the one
with the power. No one else in the country in Adopest has an army to compete with him. The only
person who can is the church because they have like the most sway over the people. And there's also a
mercenary army, but I don't think it's ever actually presented as like a proper like actual threat,
like there's a genuine chance of them like fighting against Adopest at this juncture, at least.
I think the general vibe is he knows that if he gets drawn into that sort of civil war,
it will just leave him, he'll probably win it, but he'll leave him too open to basically anyone else
to rock up. Forget that, that's not what's important. What's important is that that choice
puts him in a position of just being the new king. Okay, the king is dead. Well, guess what you got
now? You have a Napoleon Bonaparte. And it's interesting that he's actually still very likeable.
He sure is. He likes his dogs, he's good to his men, and he has a great relationship with his
bodyguard. Like, he's very entertaining to read about. And it's really fun to read about his
frustrations because when he's dealing with the politicking and trying to balance things, then
it's both cathartic when he sometimes snaps and it's like, I'm just doing this. Yeah, I'm cutting
through the bullshit. But then also at the same time, you're like, oh, that's another step on like
that dark path. Absolutely. This is about... Because I wouldn't put it past.
This is so many heroes are promised by like the evil sorceress or the bad,
the Darth Vader, you know, I can give you power if only you would join me. And it just doesn't sell
because it's really hard to just abstractly say, yes, my character wants power. People want power
to do things. They want to change the world in some significant way. And often when those offers
are given, it feels like the character is never going to accept this bargain because they don't
want power that much. They don't want to compromise themselves just to get power. No one just wants
power. But what Tamas wants isn't power. Tamas wants to get the job done. He wants to get things
set straight. He wants to get the people fed and the roads built and to get the trains to run on
time and oh no, oh no. This is a fantastic part of the novel. And I'll be really honest with you,
Geordie, there is not an insignificant part of me that kind of wishes this was just the third,
you know, one third the length book I was reading. I think it's really strong.
I do hear what you're saying. I do, I do, I do. Because it is the strongest part and it's the
part that's most enjoyable. And I'm really relieved when I get back to a Tamas chapter.
And I'm not against the Adamat chapters. I think they are engaging enough mysteries,
which I don't think stand by themselves. So it's good that they're connected to another one.
And I like Taniel's gunplay adventures. They're cool and exciting. And, you know,
they feel like something out of like, well, just a straightforward action heroic sword and sorcery
story more than anything, or maybe like a pulp sci-fi story with ray guns. His deal, if he's
fighting essentially like you said there were three types of wizards, there's actually four,
maybe five, depending on how you stretch it, because there is a group called the...
The... Praedi? Praedi, yes, the Praedi. And the Praedi are super privileged. We didn't actually
talk about how stupid the name privileged is. The wizards in the world are called privileged.
And I guess he chose this because he was like, I really want you to just get the message. And I
don't want to come up with a silly fantasy word which means privileged, blessed by the gods.
But also it's just a bit stupid, isn't it? It feels like cringey YA stuff.
I would have been equally as happy with like, mage eye, magician, sorcerers, wizards, I thought
what probably would sound a little dopey, but the same vibe would have come across. Or just go for
another come off of the Praedi name, be like the Praedi or the... Or the Scions. I'll just call them
the wizards. That's what they are. You all know it. Yeah, so the wizard, the wizard nobility,
what was I just saying? Yeah, so there's a super wizard nobility, the Praedi who existed before the
main privileged, and they are very mortal, and they're crazy powerful, and there's two of them
this book that is just stomping the shit out of each other. Yeah, and they're good action scenes,
and there's a lot of, you know, big magic going off, and there's a great scene, a university where
a tower gets blown up. Not blown up, it's sliced in two. I mean it falls down and Tamas is like,
ah, and jump out. Yeah, and they go smashing through the roof of another building. It's really hard
because this is genuinely fun action we're describing. I love how he jumps out of Adamat,
but we're on Tamas, so we're going to talk about him. He has these cool action scenes, and he also
has some genuinely good character stuff. There's so many elements in this book that it's hard to
kind of keep up with. He's got an ex-wife who he came back from war and found in the bed of another
man, but oh no, his dad really likes her, and she's a member of the Powder Mages as well. That's
right. So his dad's like, come on, can't you just get back together? And he's like, how could I?
And I'm like, yeah, fair do. And then also he has this new friend who we think is like 14. Yeah,
a couple. And then just when he starts to get romantic interest, they turn to him and go,
actually I'm 18, and you go, thank god for that. Yes, yes. That was creepy and unnecessary. Yeah,
that was okay. So now we're on to maybe, so this is a part of the book which is just so annoying
annoyingly bad. From first and foremost, it's just, just why? Just why? Like it's so, it feels like
such an obvious blunder. Don't make your, your, one of your main heroes, who I believe is 24 years
old, and he's rocking around with his new assistant. That he met her on like a war campaign,
and she's his spotter. So it's her job to help mark targets so he can shoot them. And like she's,
she's useful to him because she's like a great tracker, and it turns out she has like weird
magical powers, which are like not like the other privileged. And as we go along, you know, like,
people start to make sort of jests about the two of them. And it's weird because you're like,
okay, but you instead of going to start, she's mute, so she can't explain herself.
Uh, it's said from the start that she's 15 years old. So it feels uncomfortable. People are making
these jabs like, so what's the two of you's relationship? A, wink, wink, and it's like she's
literally a child. And Taniel will say, “she's a child. Don't do that. That's gross.” And you're
like, yeah, good for you, Taniel. Good for you for pointing that out. And then Taniel's like,
now that Vlora's not here, what will I do? Maybe I'll marry Ka-Poel. And I'm like, you think she's
15. Why are you saying that? That's weird. This is really weird, both like minor and like major
part of the story. Because Ka-Poel's relationship with Taniel is like quite a big bit of his plot.
It might not take up that much actual page space, but it took up a lot of mind space when I was
reading it. You know, I was thinking about this going, why are we doing it like this? It made me
not like Taniel like as much like really go, Oh God, this guy again. And that's weird. We even
got to that point. I was never like, Oh fuck, it's Taniel. I was always like, okay, let's see
what Taniel is up to. I bet he's on a cool adventure. See, I wasn't there. I was enjoying
the adventure, but I could actually be myself to like love the adventurer. Taniel, I kind of got
to the point where I'm like, oh, Taniel, dude, you're perving on a young person. You're dissing
your dad a lot. And I know he's not been a great dad, but he's got a lot. I like Tammaz. I'm on
his side. Here's daddy issues. The problem I really have is that up until that point, like that one
point where she says she didn't get to her hands. I'm 19. She's mute. She communicates with sign
language up to that point. I really liked their relationship. It's nothing groundbreaking, but
it's just enjoyable. You know, you have these characters who despite one of them having a
disability, they're able to communicate. You have it where like she clearly cares about him a lot,
but it feels like in like a way that he doesn't reciprocate because she's a kid and she looks up
to him because like he's like a heroic person who saved her life. And now they've been, they're like,
you know, they're comrades who've been in a foxhole together. And that's all really cool,
interesting stuff. And then she goes, I'm 19. And the moment she communicates that just a little
switch flicks in, it just suddenly flicks in Taniel's head. Who is like, okay, well, she's legal
now. So now I can be interested in her sexually. And it feels weird. It does particularly because
I really felt like they were building this really good platonic, maybe I'm not gonna say master
student, maybe father, almost wolf and cub, not really quite that way. Just pals, they're just
friends. Just plus they're just poor pals. Like they've been through some really established that
they went through some really hard shit together. And they've got each other's back to a ridiculous
degree. And also that they're both really capable, but in drastically different ways. I really enjoyed
that aspect as well. Like one would not be as good without the other. That's true. They're a great
team. She's the tracker. He's the sniper. Nick, she's literally his spotter. So I didn't like that.
It was a bit of a wet flannel over whatever kind of spark I was trying to get up with Taniel.
And it just made me, the fact that he as a character has this kind of flicks, like he as a
character has that moment. He just suddenly goes, Oh, maybe I am interested in you in a different way.
I was like, dude, just go, go on. I know your role in this, but I don't actually like you.
I wouldn't want to go and have a drink with you. Just move along. Shall we hit at some of the
elements of the story, which I don't think we've done their due diligence. I mean, I think there's
actually quite a lot. There's a lot of plot going on. It's a big book. And I actually really like
the fact that it's quite a meandering story. When it first begins, you think it's going to be about,
it's about picking up the pieces after revolution. And it is that for a bit. And now it's about a
brewing civil war between Royalists and Republicans. And you're like, Oh man, I guess this is the rest
of the book. But actually that's only like another quarter of the book. And then that's dealt with.
And then it's about an upcoming invasion with Kez. And you're like, is this the rest of the book?
Well, kinda, but actually that's just like the lead into what's really going on, which is the
revenge of the gods. The divine right of Kings is real. Or a great concept. I actually love it. I
love the fact that you're really using your fantasy world to empower the real world Kings
propaganda. Like they've been real world revolution. Absolutely. Yeah. You play with, yeah. What,
yeah, what if the divine right of Kings is real is essentially the main basis. You could take out
all the other magical elements and that would be the core one you keep. And it would be super
interesting still. Cause now there's this big question and, you know, Tamas puts it very bluntly
at point, so I think all of them actually feel quite bluntly, but they're just like, well,
any God that was pro that crap system. Fuck them. Please bleep that out. Fuck them. Fuck them.
Fuck them. Fuck them. Yeah. And you, you, you go from this kind of standard, you know, it's about
people fighting people and then it's about normal people fighting wizards and the escalation of
there's now a God out there and you're going to have to fight him. It feels really daunting. Like
you generally, I'm like, how the hell are these guys going to win? This feels impossible. Tamas,
have you damned your whole nation? There's two more books. So probably not, but maybe.
Close. It's a really fun concept. I love, I really enjoyed earlier this year. I spoke about it on the
podcast briefly reading Unruly by David Mitchell, the British comedian, kind of going over the
medieval Kings of England. I loved in that book, how ideas of like the divine writings on the
holy aspects of ceremonies, you can really track through English Kings. And it's so interesting how
in the real world, we literally know which people made up certain shit about the divine rights.
And then like you flash forward five generations later and they're all kind of spying their own
con. So to then take them and be like, okay, what then is the moral implication? If the King,
it has a divine right. Does that mean that they can do no wrong? Are you now doing wrong by opposing
them? And then we get into fighting God. Yeah. You've done an act of sacrilege by liberating
your people. I love fighting God. I like playing Final Fantasy games and they all end in the same
way. It's all at the end, you kill God. It's just how it's got to be done. I also love climbing the
steps of heaven and strangling God in his bed. It's my favourite thing to do in fact. I'm sorry,
I don't know how to respond to that one. That's our first t-shirt. That it is. It's crazy and I
love the escalation to get there. Again, I really like the big picture stuff and I think Tamas deals
with a lot more of the big picture stuff. We've sort of missed something that did fall through
the cracks there. So we talked about Tamas, talked about Tannil. They do have a father-son
relationship which just doesn't get enough page time for me to really become super interesting.
Yeah, they're not really together much at all. Tannil gets sent off very early on. I like the
fact you did step on the fact that this is very much an evolving plot. I talked about Tannil gets
sent off to find the last wizard. That's actually his third mission. He goes on two quests beforehand,
hunting a Praedi and all of these other things. But let's talk about the other character,
Adamat. Ah, the detective. Geordi, have you ever read Lowtown? I know you haven't actually,
so I don't know why I'm asking. Lowtown and the Straight Trilogy by Daniel Polanski, Straight
Razor Cure is the first one. We will read it one day. God, this gave me such good Lowtown vibes.
That is a detective in a very similar vibing setting and I love it. I love the fact that when
you've got a world with all the wizards and magic going on at that higher level, I love the fact
that when you get down to like your day to day people, doesn't matter. It's kind of the same.
Like that stuff, even for Tamas and like the power demages, they're not the privilege,
but they're still the elites. Like they hold a special place in society. They have special
powers. They have taken power. They are now the ones at the top and yet to the absolute bottom
rung, very little difference. I love the fact in Inna's book, like you have these revolutions
going on. You have civil war brewing and actual international war brewing and people are talking
about unions. People are talking about getting bread. You know, there's a real strong implication
of the world does not stop for any of this. People need to keep living their lives and that stands
out the starkest in Adamat section because he's down with the people. He's not up in the castle
for the most part. He's in the streets. He's attending boxing matches and he's like visiting
businesses and going to the library. Yes, Adamat. So good detective. I really enjoy him. I really
enjoy the fact that we get his family very early on. Is he a good detective? He is. Okay, is he a
good one? He's a good guy who is a detective. Because we've talked. Yeah, he's a fun perspective
character. He's a good detective. And is it a good mystery? Oh, that is a very good question.
What's the mystery Duncan? Like what is the act? There's two mysteries in this book. The first one
is like, it's not a mystery at all, period. Like it's a mystery box like JJ Abrams would say.
You know, there's nothing you can do to like solve it. You just have to wait for the plot to provide
it. I like the parts where it's like, you're finding all these books where it's a race. That's
cool. That feels like a conspiracy. I like that a lot. That feels like a game of Delta Green, in fact.
But you have, but then the actual mystery is at a certain point, Tamas is alone in a room that only
he knows about and he's attacked by an enemy super soldier basically. And he says, Adamat,
only five people in the world, aside from me, know about this room. One of them plotted to kill me,
and you'd find out who it is. And that leads Adamat to interview all of the main people on
the council to try and determine their guilt and culpability. And this is kind of interesting
because I mentioned this earlier, like we get him going around interviewing all these different
people. He talks to the leader of the mercenaries. He talks to the leader of the church, the leader of
the unions. But you're right. Is he a good detective? Because Adamat in this book doesn't
really solve a single mystery. The first mystery, which is that kind of lore mystery, we find out
that there's a mystery. They're like, oh, Kresimir, the God's promise has been broken. And literally
he reads some books, goes, someone's trying to hide it. And then he literally just goes and asks
the guy and the guy's like, oh, this is the answer, mate. You can go back and tell Tamas.
There's nothing we, the reader, can do. This bit is like a more traditional mystery. It's that
Poirot. This is a Hercule Poirot style mystery. Locked room. You have to interview everyone and
you have to identify who's telling lies. The difference is that when Poirot interviews people,
he always discovers that they have secrets of their own and he has to deduct each one. Okay,
what are you hiding? And then reveal like, oh, well, this is actually going on. That kind of
happens a bit. He finds out that one of them, the Mercer media is having an affair, but that doesn't
actually impinge on any reason that she would want to overthrow Tamas. And the union leader guy,
he wants to expand unions worldwide. And that means he wants to do business with the enemy
nation of Kez. But I really just don't think, like, he doesn't intuit that. He's told that by other
people. Even the affair, I think he literally gets told by one of the other blokes when he's
like leaving the thing. Some guys are like, yeah, it's a real, real, real affair. I seriously mean,
he doesn't solve any of those mysteries. Like he doesn't notice like, oh, I happen to notice that
you're wearing, you have the same perfume on. Perhaps you've been spending a lot of time together.
It's nothing like that. He goes to other members accounts and you say, it's not me. It must be her.
She's having an affair. Oh, it can't be me. It must be him. He's talking to Kez. And not only that,
but his impact then on the Leboide plot gets greatly diminished because he, if he didn't solve
this, like there's a bit where he discovers that there's going to be an attempt on Tamas,
which he only kind of discovers, I think, because someone attacks him. But anyway,
and then he's like, I must rush to tell him. And then he's just too late. So it's like,
what he actually did Duncan was he found out who the conspirator was. He mixed things up a bit.
And the reason he makes things up is that we've kind of left a really important thing till last
after this. He discovers that the, what are they called? The Black Street butchers, the
butchers, the barbers, the black street barbers are going to assassinate the chef.
Street gang, by the way, they're going to assassinate this cook because religion reasons.
And because he's claiming to be a God and the church has hired assassins to kill him. And so
what actually happens is Adamat rushes to the scene. And yes, he does arrive too late, but it's
fine. And he tells Tamas, I know who did this. It was the church. I have proof. And that's a good
bit of that's the one bit of detective work he does, which is that he remembers by a description
someone gives who an emissary of a church. There we go. It's the church who did it. Tamas goes
rushing off to arrest the guy. And then Adamat discovers that it's a trap. The fact that he has
exposed the mystery is leading Tamas to his death. The thing he's too late for is to arrive to warn
Tamas that he's leading into a trap. He arrives after it's been sprung. And one black character
in the book has been killed. I mean, okay, yes. And I know that if he doesn't rush to the trap,
you know, he's very important in the climax to take down one of the villains. But is he?
He helps a little bit, but he does feel like other than letting him know, ah, it was the church that
tried to murder the guy calling himself a god. And you wouldn't have worked that out with it
without me. Well, so he like, he doesn't cheat much. We learn a lot about the world because of
what he does and what people tell him. And that's brilliant. Useful perspective character, and he's
fun. But a story. And that's why I really, weirdly, I prefer him to Tannin's sections,
because I find him more fun to be with. You know, he has a family. He's a family man. They're
threatened throughout quite a large section of this book. And, you know, I felt for him. I was
there with him, even if he wasn't actually competent. Yeah, for sure. The indecision between I don't
want to betray someone who's been good to me and also I need to protect my family. I think his most
interesting aspect is the fact that he needs to protect his family. Adamat has this great kind of
dynamic in this book where his family are being threatened by this shadowy organization for most
of the book. And this shadowy organization go, right, here’s your son's finger in a box,
you're going to be a spy on time mass for us. Anything you learn from him or anything you
learn investigations, you'll tell us and we won't hurt your family. And actually, this gives Adamat
a fairly decent amount of moral conflict. What's he going to do? I say that he actually decides
quite quickly, but then he feels bad about it. I'm going to protect my family, but there's still
conflict there and he feels bad about it. And then he tries to help to mass at the end.
So I mentioned that there was a dude who was claiming to be a god. This little plot is wrung
out so slowly and so delicately that I was like, from the moment he shows up, I know he's not
bullshitting. I know this guy is for real. He definitely is a god because there's no other
reason that has seemed to be written like this. But it still happened so slowly. The fact that
this guy is just a divinity who's emerged into the world and is wandering around and all he wants to
do is cook for people that is so amusing and like just a little bit fun. I just really liked his
presence. This is a lovely little vignette, which I think what really works about this kind of story
arc that's weaved throughout the rest of the novel is that it's not seemingly impacting anything else.
Apart from it's making the church very angry and it's building up that friction between the
church and Tamas. And it's only when you get right near the end that you realise, oh,
oh, god's returning, one, is a thing. And two, is the main driving factor going forward. At least
that's how this book leaves off. Like, oh no, this is actually what's happening. This is the main plot.
I really like this character. Oh my god, now I'm struggling to remember a name.
I'm saying it's not Kresimir. That's the god that establishes all the kings.
I don't know. I don't know what it is, Duncan. And I put my phone away so I can't look it up.
I know. I want to say it begins with an M. We're doing so bad today.
Mahali.
Mahali. Right, yes. Mahali is like the god of good times, baby. He's like the Dionysus of this world.
He likes to cook. He likes to sleep around. He had like 800 wives. And he was a real dude.
Like, that's something that is expressed in the story by one of the Praedi. He's just a fella.
He's out there. He was real. And Kresimir as well. He was a very powerful being. He came from another world.
But he was tangible. And he walked around. And then one day, he left. And now that Kresimir's promise has been broken,
that one of the lines for the first time in history has been severed. Some of the Praedi
are summoning him back. And they're working with the enemy nation of Kez to bring about his return.
And that's Taniel's story. For most of this book, Taniel is perched on a mountainside,
fighting an enemy army by just like shooting down the hill. His is like a prolonged war section.
It's not an action scene. It's a series of, a series of shoved back like charges that he has to
like hold back. But it culminates his section in like another mission where he has to scale a mountain.
He's discovered that they've crept past their line by digging under it. And he has to rush to the top
of the mountain with his squad and take down the bad guys. And this section of the book just goes on for way too long.
Way too long. Now I do love the chase up the mountain, the snow coming down, the monastery that's been blown up like the monks at the top of that mountain in Skyrim.
Also, I could not get the scale of this mountain down right. Because when they get to the top, they like find an entire city.
In like a cold area at the top. I'm like, how big was this thing? And how high that no one had come up here?
Can you not see the top? Is this Olympus? Well, think about this. It's like the late 1700s. We really hadn't started climbing like stuff like Everest back then.
I suppose you're right. But Everest doesn't have a city. Mountaineering is fairly modern as a hobby.
I'm sorry. We've jumped about so much. We're on a rally for a second. Right. Yes. You say it goes on too long. I agree.
I think we have some really cool action scenes early on with Taniel. But this scene, now I actually feel like the scene at the fort where he's trying to defend and drive back the enemy.
You could almost write like a legend style novel just set here.
And that's exactly what I was thinking of. And I really, those scenes, they scratched the same itch as legend.
It just didn't have quite as many characters. You know, there were some fun characters around that is enjoyable to see and spend time with.
But yeah, again, this is just another whole novel, which would be enjoyable to read. And it's just a part of this this omnibus that's been forced together like a magnet.
A good example of this is the fact with the characters of Bo and Gavril, two people who are members of the Watch.
Bo is the wizard that Taniel gets sent to deal with and they don't. Anyway, that's for later.
And like Bo has like a couple of girlfriends and I don't know, I just wanted a scene where they were all, you know, after pushing the enemy back, they all went back to the tavern together and sat around the mess room drinking ale and having a chat.
But we just. Yeah, there's a scene that's almost that. Like there's a scene where they're sharing a bottle. And that's a really good chapter. I love that chapter.
But you're right, there could have been more scenes like that. They were just about the relationships of the people on the wall.
But then you just you're asking for legend again, but with guns. So I guess like the fantasy version of Zulu.
I would read that maybe in a shot. No, I'm actually saying that Zulu has. Yeah, let's not go into that.
Then Duncan and Geordie spoke about Zulu for several minutes before deciding it was not worth putting in the podcast. The end.
OK, back to the fantasy novel. I just think it could have breathed more.
And there's so many elements in this book that I really enjoyed.
But then sometimes, you know, so well, to make this section better, maybe it needs a bit more time.
But I don't want it to take away from this other section, which I love even more.
Likewise, this is a long book and I don't want more pages.
So it's quite challenging. And like I said, this chase up the end.
Like this is the time of the model with Taniel where we get a lot.
We get the Ka-Poel age thing comes out at this point.
And genuinely, I was mostly like, OK, you're going to run up the mountain and you're going to fight the big bad.
Cool. Get on with it.
I was getting really scared. I was getting really fed up and not going over Taniel at this point.
And exactly. And that was the real problem.
Like everything involving like the race up the mountain. Here's how much how's how here's how I thought it was going to go and how it felt it should go.
They say we have to get up that mountain and there would be one chapter about racing on the mountain, how difficult it is.
And maybe someone falls off a crevasse and it's sad, but they have to keep going because it's so important.
And then they arrive at the top. They manoeuvre through the city.
And that's one chapter. And then one more chapter is the big confrontation.
We find the bad guys. Bang, bang, bang, bang. They have a big fight.
There's a big showdown. There's a critical moment at the end. Boom. End of the story.
The problem is, is that that has to weave between Tamas chapters and Adamat chapters, all of which span like have their own action scenes.
And so because of the pacing of the story and you want or he wants all of the climax to happen at once, Taniel's climax, which sort of gets kicked off first, is stretched out.
There's all of these scenes of them pacing around and being scared about like, oh, no, the mountain cats are about.
And then there's another chapter which is like, oh, no, we're being chased by the mountain cats. Oh, no, let's run.
And there's a scene where they're like getting lost in the big building. And then there's the big confrontation.
It's it really stretched out and I don't want to harp on it for too long, but it could have been so much briefer and more exciting if they had just cut out some of those Taniel chapters.
And I'm not saying I'd like to talk about the final moment of the story. Oh, oh, what? When Taniel is recovering in the tent and he speaks to his father, the penultimate part of the story, because we haven't actually said what happens.
Oh, you mean the bit when they kill God? Yes.
So the the bad guys are trying to resurrect.
We're not resurrecting, he's not dead. They're trying to bring back Kresimir. And this is bits where they, you know, the stakes of the scene is they need like a ton of privilege to be able to do it.
And we can't possibly kill her, the Praedi, because she's so powerful. But we can kill the privileged.
And the more of them we kill, like the more of a chance that we can just like prevent the ritual from occurring.
And I like that. I really like the fact that it was like not direct confrontation. It was like we have to fight around the problem.
But that ultimately fails. They do manage to resurrect Kresimir. And as he's like descending from the heavens, Taniel, like from I think, what is it, three miles away?
They have said before, this is not that super crazy, because Taniel has shot people who were literally a mile away in like, it's mentioned in the lead up to the book.
This is like something he's famous for. But it's a ridiculous distance, even for a powder mage.
And for context, three miles away at sea level is over the horizon.
Yep. But he's elevated. So that's fine.
Yeah, you yeah. So with his supervision, he can see this tiny speck of a god descending from heavens, and he lines up his shot.
And despite the fact that it's an impossible shot, and he can't possibly do it with the last of his power, he fires two bullets.
And he shoots a god in the chest. And he's like, I did it, Karpo. I killed a god. And then the roof falls on them or something.
And it very abruptly cuts to the epilogue. And it's such a jarring, we were just talking about the passage of time in it.
The fact that it just suddenly ends and it's over. And then it's we were in the epilogue, and Taniel and Karpo are like in a coma, which is such a standard, like, easy way to get your heroes out of danger, to just knock them out.
But like, really knock them out. Not dead, almost, you know.
I'm never a fan of this. The idea that they're like-
Me neither.
Right in the heart of danger. And then they fall unconscious. And it's just like, yep, we got them back. They're in the safety tent.
And they say, oh, you know, was it Bo? Bo carrying them down the mountainside. And you're like, fucking hell, that's an adventure on itself.
What, as the volcano was erupting and the god was thrashing about and they were inside a collapsed building, not dead? You just got them back. Well done.
A bit silly. Yeah, and Bo was like really messed up at the time. Like he was not doing well. But yes, he gets down through magic or whatever.
And I don't- Here's the thing. Why did he have Taniel shoot Cresimir? Because you never buy it for a second that it means anything.
Like, it's not a surprise when Bo's like, you can't kill a god. Like, we're like, yeah, obviously.
Like, did he, did the author really get us, were we supposed to be hyped up to think like, yes, Taniel, you can do it. You're the best. Around. No, of course not.
In many respects, I think it would have given me a greater sense or more trepidation or excitement going into the next novel.
If it was like that scene in- Got a reference in anime now. You ever watch Bleach?
Have I watched Bleach, motherfucker? I've seen so much Bleach.
OK, well, you know, episode 58, I think, roughly. There's this great scene where the main character's anime, a guy called Ishikawa, he's beating the big bad of like that story arc.
And he's the biggest bad there's ever been. But then this new guy rocks up and our main character, all souped up on his power, rushes towards him.
The music is hyping us up and then it does that great classic, the music just cuts out as the new big bad actually picks up his index finger and just catches his sword and then just slits our villain away.
That's what I think I personally would have quite enjoyed in this sort of scene.
If we'd seen our main character, he'd run up the stairs, he'd taken on all those privilege.
You know, privilege we'd had been set up are a major threat in this world. And then like if he had that scene where he's like, right, I'm going to take down a god and then the god could just like put up one hand and just catch the bullets.
Something like that, I think I would have found like a bit more, oh, here we go.
If, yeah, maybe the scene would be like he does this incredible shot and then he visually confirms it didn't work and he can say to Carpal, I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I thought I could kill a god and then it collapses.
I think that would have been more dramatic and that would have been more fatalistic.
Instead, it's this moment of, it feels like he's trying to imply that it's triumphant or maybe it's just like a really advanced version of dramatic irony.
I'm not sure. Anyway, it doesn't last long because the next chapter they reveal it didn't work. It's the last line of the book, I think.
And the last epilogue is really Tamas has gone back to his son's side and he's like, you've got a war that's still continuing with Kresimir, with Kez, the opposing nation.
It's not going to get any better. You need to prepare for the mother of all wars coming your way.
And the gods are returning and they want to destroy the entire nation, not just you, the entire nation to be destroyed.
So now you're fighting for the survival of your people.
Intense. Do you want to know what happens next? I don't want to undersell that fact.
I really want to know. We've said some nasty stuff and I really don't want people to forget all the nice things we said as well, because on the whole, I really enjoy this book. Seven out of ten.
This is really solid. Like we say seven out of ten. This is seven out of ten for me in the way that parts of this book are ten out of ten.
Parts of this book are five out of ten. And the way it all meshes together is six or seven out of ten.
Yeah, there's a couple of fours in there like carpool and that that drags it down. But it's nothing that it can't recover from.
I really think like I'm definitely going to read the next book. There's no question about it in my mind.
Probably not on the podcast. We have so many books we need to read.
I think Duncan that in terms of reading it for the podcast, we have given our opinion. We'll check back in at the start of an episode, maybe later down the line.
But there's so many things that we have to do that I don't think we can afford time.
It was your pick to do this. I'm telling you now, I really doubt that I'm going to pick the Something Republic to be the next book we do.
Geordie, I completely understand. If to be pretty honest, I'm a little bit relieved. I think this is something where I'm going to be happy to take a break.
And the day I come and read the next book in the series, I will probably enjoy it.
Hell, maybe it will change all around and I'll be like Geordie, Geordie, come back, come back. We've got to do it. You've got to experience this.
But when I'm sitting here and there are such great series that we haven't continued, see Scholomance, see all of Joe Abercrombie's work.
I can't see this hitting the top of the pile.
Well, then the question remains, what is next? And it's my decision, Duncan.
Oh, that is Geordie. This is this is kind of this is interesting. I feel, you know, this is nice and open. Where are we going to go? What are we going to do?
Now, unfortunately, Duncan, you see, I've been at work for about two and a half weeks now and I feel like it's time for me to go on another holiday.
I've you know what? It's I'm just not feeling it. I'm going off again.
I relate so hard. That's not a joke.
It was framed as one, but no, I'm going off on a second holiday.
I had a big summer holiday with a little a little break, a little gap of doing work in the middle of it.
I am back in the UK for two and a half weeks and now I'm off to France, not for the Olympics.
That's done. I'm skipping that completely, but I am going to do some cool historical stuff.
My girlfriend and I are going to Versailles and we're also going to this amazing site called Guédelon.
Have you heard of this Duncan? I have not heard of Guédelon. Guédelon is a French historical construction project.
It was begun in the 1990s where French medievalists are building using entirely medieval methods an actual medieval castle.
That is so cool. It has been about 30 years.
They've been building it. They built it next to a quarry and they dig out all the stone themselves.
They split the stone with historical methods.
They chisel it with historical methods.
They lift the stones.
They even like lay levels using like a pendulum instead of like a level with a bubble in it.
I think the one thing they are that they do is they wear hard hats because they still live.
They still live, you know, in an actual real life modern democracy where we don't make workers wear jerkins.
See, Geordie, you could actually just leave at the fray because they still live.
And one more thing is that they do where they still live is that they only build it during the spring and summer.
In the winter, they just close it down.
Like the peasants are going home because you do not build castles in the winter.
Obviously, obviously, Geordie.
I mean, we all know that. Well, I hope you really enjoy your trip, Geordie.
You can really get in touch with those themes of revolution that were kicked off.
Exactly. Yes. I'm going to buy one of those red hats.
They've been showing so many times at the Olympics.
Also, also, I'm going to a place called and I'm going to pronounce this because my girlfriend,
I can't figure out how it's actually pronounced.
It's either Peux de Feu or Puy de Feu.
It's a French medieval theme park but has like chariot racing and jousting.
And apparently, there's going to be a part in the jousting where the French knights are jousting.
It's all good fun. And then the English show up and everyone booze and I'm going to cheer for them.
Hooray! We lost the euros, but we're going to win the joust.
I absolutely love that. Honestly, medieval reenactments are such good fun.
Jousting reenactments.
Like I think if they were to bring jousting back as a bit of a sport, I would watch that.
Each second. Oh, hell yes.
Well, that's me. That's my plan.
I'm just working. In the meantime, what I meant to say is whilst I'm out there,
I'm going to be reading and so are you Duncan, The Priory of the Orange Tree.
Oh, this has been on my to read list for a very long time.
Mine too. It is a very big book and I think that's why it's never,
I've never had enough time between podcast reads to sort of fit it in.
So I'm very happy you've picked it because it needs that level of dedication.
I don't really know what it's about.
I bought it as part of a two-for-one deal with Kierke.
I know that it's about dragons.
I know it has beautiful cover art. It has Eastern and Western dragons.
And I think there are lesbians in it, but that's all I know.
I think I know a little bit more.
I believe and I might be completely wrong here.
It's a fantasization of the period in Japanese history
where they pursued isolationism as a concept to save off Western influence.
Like three, I can't remember what it's called again.
It's like a 300-year period, but it just closed the country.
I'm glad they opened their borders.
It seems like a very nice place to visit.
I want to go skiing now.
So, is that another holiday you're just dropping in on me?
That's just, you know, I'll be off after that.
I'll be back for one week.
We can record an episode and then I'm off again.
The only holiday I actually have planned out is in two years time,
which is that I want to go hiking in Spain during the total solar eclipse.
Well, that sounds like immense fun.
But back to the podcast.
I look very much forward to reading the Priory of the Orange Tree with you,
Geordie, and discussing it in two weeks.
So has this been a pleasure?
If you have read the Priory of the Orange Tree or Promise of Blood
or any of the other books we have read or yet to read on this podcast,
please reach out to us.
Let us know your thoughts.
You can reach out to us at our Instagram, it's @isthisjustfantasypodcasts,
or you can email us on Gmail.
Isthisjustfantasypodcasts@gmail.com.
Always great to have questions.
We do respond to everyone.
We had a great question on our Gmail the other day that we really look forward to answering in a future episode.
Maybe even a full-blown bonus because I'm not going to lie.
I read this question.
I was like, this speaks to my like special interest.
I can nerd out for ages over this.
So look forward to another bonus episode coming eventually, hopefully this year.
That's a promise.
This year, I can promise that.
I've been your host Geordie Bailey.
And I've been your other host Duncan Nicoll.
So long.
Bye.