Welcome to the cannabis data science meetup group.
Good. I try to make the most of it today.
I know last week I missed out on sharing all the cool
insights with you.
So my apologies for that.
But as I said, I'll get the blog post in your hands and
there's a lot of cool things there.
So we can talk about that here momentarily.
We'd love to kind of get some of your thoughts because
actually somebody's trying to join.
Because I can kind of use some direction.
Was not made a little dissatisfied with where my
research is heading and was kind of just wanting to
change years.
So for example, with all my frustration, I was saying,
okay, right.
For example, we were talking about pesticides and
Candace asked the question about, you know, how can we
break, for example, for lab results, there was the
whole problem of lab shopping and a cheap effective
solution was just having people ask for their lab
results.
And I think we may still need to think about this more.
But I haven't thought of a quick simple solution like
that necessarily for this sticky issue of pesticides.
And the only thing that I can think of at the moment is,
you know, in certain states, if you don't have access
to data, then really the only way to know for certain
your products are pesticide free or basically to grow
it yourself.
And that's permitted in some states.
So I know it's going to be difficult.
So for example, Candace, you're in Massachusetts.
You can in fact grow your own.
But once again, this is not a cost free solution, right?
It's almost costless to ask for your lab results.
However, it is quite expensive to actually grow your
cannabis at home.
So it's not really the end all be to solutions.
And in many states, it won't even work.
So for example, I'm in Washington state.
So we do have access to open data here so that I can
at least look at the lab results and make sure my
products are pesticide free.
But I can't grow it at home.
So at least I have open data.
So that's what I've just basically been encouraging
people.
If you're a cannabis consumer, either ask, ask, ask,
ask for your data or ask, ask, ask, ask to grow it
yourself.
If you have any better ideas about how you can, you
know, ensure your products are in fact pesticide free,
I'm all ears.
Or if you've got a bigger issue or problem or research
idea, then I'm all aboard to hear that and pursue it
too.
But basically just trying to, you know, put my time,
effort and energy into, you know, sort of the most
press pressing issue for a while.
I thought it was lab shopping.
And I think it's that problem still exists.
But I hope it's heading in the right direction from
what I see with people in Florida, you know, asking
for their lab results.
But those are my thoughts for today.
And before, you know, I keep droning on, we'd love to
get some of your input because it's a cannabis data
science meetup after all.
So we'd love to hear about, you know, what do you
think's a pressing issue for research?
Because we've got, well, at least I have a little bit
of time and energy to devote to pushing this forward.
So what do you think, Candice?
What's the most pressing issue we should be working
on here at the cannabis data science meetup?
I'm not sure, Keegan.
It's a big question.
It is a big question.
It's a loaded question.
You know, it is interesting though that you do get open
data sets in Washington state.
And, you know, it's pretty interesting too that, you
know, you discovered a pesticide that they
shouldn't be using.
And, you know, it's all so interesting.
It's kind of hard to walk away a bit from the
pesticides, but, you know, we're just in Massachusetts
and I'm just banging my head against the wall trying
to get, you know, details.
So frustrating.
But I love growing and I don't think I spend a ton of
money growing compared to the fact that the, it's
easy to do.
You know, I didn't start cannabis until seven years
ago and it's so easy to grow.
You know, I just, you know, I water every couple days,
you know, make sure there's no bugs.
That's really the key thing.
And, you know, I don't spend that much on electricity.
And I have a really small house too with a 100 amp
service and I still, you know, I probably get about
a pound, you know, per grow.
So, and I have tiny tents, you know, one in the
laundry room that's tiny, you know, one in a spare
bedroom that's, you know, a little bigger and it's
not like my old house where I had the big tents, you
know, and outside, you know, I could grow outside.
But it's all interesting what you're doing, Kegan.
You're really on the bleeding edge.
Thank you so much.
I love some of these things you brought up,
Candice, and one in particular was the cost.
And what got me thinking was if you talk to like an
old school botanist, they're just going to say
that it's ludicrous that people are growing cannabis
inside.
You know, you're spending an enormous amount of
energy trying to replicate the sun.
You know, the sun is in the sky in some parts of the
country, you know, a large portion of the day, you
know, for free.
It's just this, you know, I mean, some people talk to
engineers and they argue you can kind of replicate
the light coming from the sun.
But I'm super skeptical.
And so I think plants love the sun.
I was out at the field, super sunny days, and all
they're concerned with is watering the plants, right?
That's their principal concern.
They're like, you know, in that field I was at was a
completely organic field.
And I'll show you pictures, but the plants were in
just pristine health.
They do have, it's interesting, the hemp fields
have different sorts of like viruses and pathogens
than you get inside.
So they were saying their main virus is this curly
top virus.
And so you just see some plants, the tops of them
would just get a little curly.
And basically what the farmer said is if the plants
are healthy, they can just kind of power through it.
And of course, you know, the researchers at, you
know, the Washington State University, they're kind
of, of course, concerned with the curly top virus
and trying to learn more about it.
But the hemp farmer, you know, he says maybe he'll
lose a plant here and there for it, but, you know,
the plants are just so healthy, loving the sun,
loving the water, you know, they can power through.
But I may have lost my train of, I don't know where
I was going.
Well, I kind of know where I was going with that,
but I started rambling.
But Ruth, you may have had a comment or question.
Oh, I'm sorry, I hit it accidentally.
I was just, I was thinking that what we're seeing
right now in the industry is hoplite and viroid.
And I've heard that something like 90% of plants
in California are affected, which is miserable.
The only way, I've been listening to talks on it
and it's like coronavirus in a lot of ways, but it
gets into the seeds and the plant.
It sounds like really the only way to control it
is to eradicate it.
So it sounds, I don't know.
I haven't heard that there's been mass destruction
of crops in California.
So I don't know what they're going to do with how
they're going to address the problem.
I love that you, well, I don't love this, but it's
interesting that you bring this up, Ruth.
So someone reached out to me and I'm hoping that
they'll join the meetup next week.
So somebody who, a CEO who runs a testing lab
in California that is primarily focused on testing
for hops late and viroid wants to join the meetup
and talk with us and tell us what it's all about.
So I'll get you the specific dates, but I want
to say that's next week.
And I'm personally super interested in learning
more about this.
As you pointed out, this is basically the number
one concern, threat to the indoor growers.
You were saying, you know, potentially 90% of
the crop that grows in California.
I know it's also a problem in Colorado.
A thought that comes to mind is I wonder if it's
affecting the outdoor cultivations as much as the indoor.
What I've heard is 90% of all cannabis in California
is infected.
I've also, I've seen a couple of presentations
and listened to podcasts on it and it can get
into the seeds.
And I don't know if you can actually test the seeds
or if you have to germinate them.
And what's really interesting is they said it,
you want to, if you're testing, you want to test
the roots because it'll get into the roots and
then it'll distribute through the rest of the plant.
So you can have an infected plant.
You can test sections of the leaves and the leaves
will come back negative, but that might be perhaps
because the virus hasn't spread to that part of the plant
yet.
So you can get essentially a false negative.
And it's, from what I'm hearing, it's really insidious.
And, you know, if it's in the seeds, then if you're
planting new seeds, then I don't know how you
protect against it because it's expensive, obviously,
to have to germinate the plants to figure and then
wait and test them to see if they're infected.
It's a real mess.
I don't know how the industry is going to address it,
as I said.
Phenomenal points.
And as I said, we'll get the facts next week.
So anything I tell you right now is just going to be
hearsay that sort of, yeah, hearsay wisdom or knowledge
or just opinions that I've just accumulated just
talking with people.
But I think you're absolutely right.
I think there's suspicion that, yes, it can be passed
through the seeds, that the rate may be low.
So maybe, say, I don't know, I think people are just
throwing out numbers like maybe 2 to 8 or 10 percent.
If you've got an infected plant, maybe 2 to 8 percent
or 2 to 10 percent of the seeds may have the virus.
I don't, this is, as soon as people start mentioning
chemicals, I get super, super cautious.
But I've heard people say that they go through
protocols such as putting a small amount of bleach,
I forget what it was, like 0.1 percent of bleach
or something in water.
And they basically, and once again, don't quote me on that.
I don't even personally recommend that.
Like I said, I'm not a big fan of chemicals,
so I wouldn't do any sort of thing like this.
But I have heard of people doing it.
So it's something to know about that people may be doing this.
But they may be basically cleaning off the seeds
before they germinate it with some sort of disinfectant,
potentially super diluted bleach.
I've heard that.
I think I read that it works sometimes, but not always.
Exactly.
And then that's pre-germination.
And then basically, from my understanding,
they basically quarantine.
Well, in the facilities where this is a big problem,
like California, they basically would, I guess,
quarantine the sproutlings until they get them tested.
And as far as my understanding, like you said,
in California, it's such a big problem
that I think people are basically
having to use tissue culture.
Which is, once again, you're going
to have to talk to a chemist or botanist
to really understand tissue culture.
What they do is they take small.
They want to go to the very, very tips of the plants
where you're getting new growth, because that's essentially
like stem cells.
They're very clean.
And then you take samples from there,
and you can test the cells to make sure they're clean.
And then you propagate more samples from those clean cells.
That's the way my understanding of tissue culture works.
I do want to say real quickly that what I find
so extremely paradoxical about cannabis is that there
are so many diseases out there, and they spread so quickly.
Which means that my understanding
is that cannabis grows are essentially
becoming like clean rooms.
And what I find so paradoxical is it's weed.
As you're saying, it grows so easily outdoors.
All you need to do is water it and let it have some sun.
And it's the most technologically
un-intensive product out there, and that it just
grows on its own.
Yet, if we look at where the industry is going,
it's becoming perhaps the most technologically intense,
cultivated product.
And I find that very ironic.
And this is where you'd almost have
to talk to someone who knows ecosystems.
Like I want to say environmentalist,
but that doesn't sound right.
So an ecologist.
Because there's an interesting principle
that I've been trying to learn and incorporate more of,
where it's too much of something is bad,
but then too little of it is also bad.
And so basically, the people growing outside,
they've got tons of pests.
But then there's also things that eat the pests.
Like it's a bug eat bug world.
And so it seems counterintuitive,
but it's almost like that was kind of what
I was learning about the hemp fields.
It's almost like a little bit of an ecosystem.
So they are pulling weeds.
But so that's the main battle, I think,
when you're growing outside are weeds.
But a lot of the bugs will target other bugs.
And then I think things like the white powdery mildew.
So that's a big problem inside.
But they said outside, it's just not sure
it's as much of a problem.
So some of me thinks that part of this
may be like it's almost too clean, right?
Which is kind of a paradox.
But it's basically they're trying
to grow inside, outside of the plant's natural habitat.
There's nothing else in there.
There's no other organic material.
So it's like if you get any pathogen,
like any mold or parasite into that room,
then it's just like the only organic thing to eat on
is your cannabis plants.
And it's got no predators.
So if you do get and then you've also got
the problem of what's it called?
Like monocrop, where a lot of these rooms,
it's just a room full of clones that are all genetically identical.
You say, break a one line?
Break a break a one line.
Copy that.
Wild squirrel.
Copy that, Roger.
So John, comments, question John.
I'm not sure if you're OK.
So I apologize about that.
Put my mic.
OK, it's OK, John.
But I'll let you, Ruth, if anyone else has any more thoughts about this.
But what's kind of just getting back to me is just like,
a lot of the other big agricultural crops,
like I want to say, like bananas maybe, maybe super susceptible to viruses
because they're just, you know, all the bananas are very, very genetically similar.
And so that's the other advantage to growing these giant hemp fields.
They are technically growing them all by seed.
So while they are the same variety, there is genetic variation among every single plant.
So yes, they're not they're closely related, but they're not perfectly related.
So maybe that has a factor.
So maybe something about every single plant being a clone.
That may be a problem.
But obviously, this is an unsolved issue.
So I'm just kind of conjecturing here.
But as I said, I was trying to get them in this week.
But I think next week we should have somebody hopefully to talk to us about hops late and viroid.
You know, there's an interesting potential data question here.
And that's if you could collect.
Well, I don't know, but collect large scale information on how the conditions under which
crops were grown and how they end up, I don't know, performing.
It's that's not well formed question.
But you know what you're saying is essentially.
Left to the natural environment, they should be they should be hardier, I guess.
I don't know.
I don't know what I'm saying.
I think that's a that's a research question because that's so.
My dad's a biologist and he's the one who's always going on about like how cannabis really
should be grown outside.
And it's like different people have their different perspectives.
You know, his perspective is like, you know, it's like good for the plants to get eaten
a little bit by the bugs, right?
Because it's you know, they're they produce terpenes as a defense mechanism against bugs.
So a research question I've always wanted to try is just have two plants and just like
hole punch some holes in one of the plants to kind of mimic it being eaten by bugs and
see if because it would be kind of kind of counterintuitive, right?
Because it's like you wouldn't think like getting your leaves eaten up would be good
for the plants.
But it may be.
And so this is where I'm starting to wonder, like obviously too many bugs are bad, right?
If you've got too many pests, that's going to be bad.
But one has to wonder if maybe just a just a little bit of, you know, just natural pathogens
out there may just kind of almost like build the plants immune system, so to speak.
You're actually right that they do introduce stressors to the plants at a certain time
and that makes them pump up their volume of different cannabinoids and terpenes.
So you're definitely on the right track there.
But, you know, good luck convincing any of these large growers to, you know, let any,
you know, pests into their into their environment.
So I don't know.
This may be a question more for, you know, like I said, a biologist, a botanist, an ecologist.
But this is kind of what I'm starting to think.
And long story short is I'm still really big on these on these hemp fields because when
you go and you see them, you really remember that this is still the cannabis plant.
You know, there are these lovely plants with seven pointed leaves, except this variety
just happens to produce predominantly CBD and CBG versus THC.
So it's just the same plant, you know, it still gets trichomes on it.
Just these trichomes fill up with a different molecule.
So so long as so a question that comes to my mind is, you know, you know, question every
statistic.
And so I wonder, you know, is this the 90 percent we hear in California?
Does that include all the outdoor cannabis, you know, up, you know, in like the the green
triangle, so to speak?
And so I've got a feeling that I wouldn't be surprised if 90 percent of the indoor grows
in California are infected.
But I don't, you know, you know, I wonder if it is also 90 percent of the outdoor farms
or not.
So but but anywho, that's where sort of my thoughts were taking me was I wouldn't be
surprised if you see hemp grown at large scale and even cannabis grown at large scale out
doors, especially if it's just going to be, you know, basically turned into concentrates.
Like I think that's basically what we saw with, you know, the the raw garden farms that
they're producing.
It looks like a lot of outdoor cannabis and then they're producing a lot of, you know,
concentrates and edibles and, you know, some joints.
But it looked like the predominant was getting turned into concentrated goods.
So I can see that happening a lot with the outdoor flower.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's still some indoor flower left.
But today.
But I don't know, I think so.
I'll kind of get on to some of my other thoughts here in a bit.
Basically, you know, the indoor farming may almost just be just kind of a consequence
of just the way cannabis has come up in this really like illegal nature and like a real
you know, illegal hidden nature.
Basically people didn't want to be outside, you know, in the public's view.
So you know, we're seeing it permitted, right, that we saw the glass house farms in California,
you know, just these giant greenhouses.
I know in Florida, I want to say I've seen some pictures of some giant greenhouses.
So the other point you raised was we need some metrics to to start to start getting
your gathering.
And so if you're all interested, I was going to maybe start putting this together for her
home growers.
But what do you all think about basically like, like a homegrown research project where
we have some sort of standardized worksheet or spreadsheet where, you know, home growers
can keep track of some of your various factors.
And then you could also, you know, keep track of some of your outcomes.
So the easiest would just be yield, just weigh how however much you you've got.
But then potentially, I was going to depends on your state, but you know, potentially,
we could start figuring out ways for home growers to get their products tested.
Because I know in Washington State, I imagine I imagine that if I mean, I worked at a laboratory
and we definitely had consumers bring in products now like on a once in a blue moon.
But I don't see why a home grower say in Massachusetts couldn't get their product tested at MCR labs.
So we'll have to check the various laws and regulations just to make sure this is in fact
allowed in all the various states where home grows permitted.
But I don't know, I think this I think this would be a really fun, insightful research
project, you know, try to keep everybody anonymized, but just just kind of record, you know, some
of the key things.
So I started to write down some of the things we may want to keep track of.
But basically, you know, when you planted it, and when you harvest, you know, which
strain you're growing, if you can, you know, the amount of light you're giving your plant
each day in is it inside or is it outside, you keep track of the temperature, potentially.
And this is where, you know, good data scientists like yourself come in, you know, we could
potentially work this out where, once again, we can maybe keep their location anonymous.
But if somebody does have their location, then you may be able to just knowing your
location, you may be able to augment that with temperature and humidity, and just sort
of local weather conditions.
And then what were some other things.
So there was like the nutrients.
And then the Okay, now this is a wild one.
How much water you're giving your plants.
So this was remarkable, I'll have to send you pictures.
So I saw this, this small plot of hemp at the Oregon State University, and they weren't
watering it.
They were just the only water that that the that hemp plot was receiving was just natural
rainfall.
And I want to say that, like all summer long, they made it.
Once again, I'll get you the exact number in the blog post.
But I want to say it was only around an inch of rain, like this whole summer.
And I mean, the field, the plot did not look great.
Like it was definitely the plants were definitely wiltering.
But they were they were kind of hanging in there, surprisingly.
And, you know, everywhere else is just basically desert.
It is like technically a desert, apparently in a in eastern Oregon.
But, you know, apparently, cannabis can get by with remarkably little water.
So that could be something you kind of do some experiments on is maybe like, you know,
see how drought tolerant your plants are.
And once again, I always kind of wonder, you know, does basically, you know, stressing
your plants with like water deprivation, does that have any effect on, you know, some of
the, you know, the flowers of the trichome production?
So because because that's something that if you talk with gardeners, they'll stress is
you do not want to overwater your plants.
Right.
You're going to you're going to start getting rot in your roots.
And in some gardeners are you get better root growth if you kind of, you know, let that
let your plants get super dry because I get once again, this is all kind of hearsay.
That's why we kind of have to tie the science to the folklore.
But the way the folklore goes is, you know, if you get them super dry, then the roots
have to, you know, start like searching for new sources of water.
But and then basically all of this, and then once again, you know, say if you are using
any pesticides or or or just pest management solutions, right, maybe you introduce a bunch
of ladybugs or or something creative into your.
And in fact, if any of you are interested, I do know someone who specializes in these
sort of organic pest pest control solutions.
But basically just measure all your inputs and then the main outputs are, of course,
you know, yield and then, you know, the cannabinoid and terpene concentrations.
So so that's sort of just an outline of what we could potentially do.
And I don't know what are your thoughts?
You know, should we try to, you know, wrangle up some home growers and see if they can.
If they're interested in participating in a home grow analytics study.
OK, so.
Because I don't know, I was just thinking this could be like.
You know, a fun pet project, because there's not really much data out there on this, right?
There's the only data on home grow.
As far as I know, once again, there's probably better sources, right?
There's the.
We've stumbled across them, so I'm sure there's other sources.
But the main one is just the what was it?
The National Survey on Drug Use and Health, the NSDUH.
And there I believe there was a question about how many people home grow in.
Didn't sound right to me because I forget what it was.
It was just a small fraction of people.
But then if you kind of extrapolated out to the entire US, I'd want to say our numbers
were like as high as like five or six million.
But that just seems way, way, way, way too high to me.
It doesn't seem like there'd be that many people growing cannabis at home.
But.
But that's really it.
And so what we would kind of be interested in discovering is.
What are the two?
This is an interesting research question right here.
What's the average yield for a home grower?
Because that's been one of the biggest reasons why home grows not been permitted.
So in Washington state, they don't permit home grow.
And one of the principal reasons is they say they're worried about diversion.
Of course, now, you know, the arguments kind of changed a little bit.
And now they're saying, you know, now they're mostly worried about access to youth.
But that would still technically be diversion, right?
It's diversion to youth, which is not what you want.
But.
But but any.
My main point is we should maybe just quantify how much a home grower actually yields on
average.
And, you know, you could probably estimate that, you know, prop.
You know, you could do an estimate by hand, but you actually want some data and some statistics
because as we all know, the real world's messy and how how do things actually shake out?
So so we can kind of compare that to, you know, how much does an average consumer consume
in in a year?
And then once again, potentially look at the home grower themselves using some of these
cool things like the the receipt tracking we have.
But the long story short is just try to figure out, OK, the people that grow at home.
Are they even growing enough to meet their own consumption needs?
Because you know what?
I forget.
Once again, I'm pulling a number out of my hat.
We did calculate it at one point, but I don't remember it.
But, you know, let's say somebody consumes maybe they're a heavy consumer.
They consume 50 grams a year.
How many grams if they were home grower, would they produce a year?
You know, maybe maybe one plant.
They have a low harvest and they only harvest an ounce, which is like 28 grams.
Well, that's about half of their consumption.
And so when we theorize if they're only growing half of the amount they consume, they're probably
not diverting it right because they're they're actually going to the store to get their other
half.
So so that so that's one thing.
And then the other thing is just quality.
Right.
What's the average home grow THC percentage versus the average THC percentage you see
at the retail store?
You know, are home growers better or worse at a growing high THC or say maybe you're
interested in high CBD, whatever it is, you know, are home growers better or worse?
Then then a licensed growers.
And similar for terpenes, you know, who has the better terpene expression?
And this is and this is where you could really, really unlock the some really cool scientific
studies because.
For example, MCR Labs, I want to say, was doing a study where I want to say they were
looking at soil quality and they may have I forget.
They may have all to look up the study.
But the biggest complaint against the study was the sample size was small, like maybe
like 12 plants or something were grown in total at different soils.
Well, the cool thing about, you know, getting a bunch of home growers on board, it's not
going to be your traditional controlled scientific experiment.
But this is the type of scientific experiment that like economists, you know, like myself
are used to, which is just, you know, crazy variation from, you know, just all over the
board from tons of different sources.
But I love this type of variation myself.
So it's just like, you know, get a get a home grower in Massachusetts growing outside, get
a home grower in San Diego growing inside, you know, get someone in Washington state
or they'd have to be a medical patient, get a medical patient in Oklahoma, get some some
people in Missouri.
And I want to say maybe Minnesota is allowing home grow.
So you know, just get all these different states, get all these different people growing
different strains, maybe in some cases, they're growing the same strain, you know, keep track
of the soil, the water, the light.
And once again, you know, it's not it's going to be quite different than your you know,
your typical control scientific experiment.
But I don't know this.
That's sort of the type of study that I personally love.
But what are your thoughts, comments, questions about about putting together something like
this?
I'll volunteer.
Okay.
Bro, but you know, I could ask some people if I can, you know, propagate in their backyard
to in Massachusetts and help, you know, I'm always giving away phones and stuff.
But I get though, right, I started doing a closed loop system keegan right after I had
spider mites off the Massachusetts grower group, Facebook group, right.
And also to you know, I'm kind of glad that I did because now I can, you know, I can make
my own seeds.
And I also have seeds to that have CBD that are CBD rich as well as THC.
And but anyway, volunteer.
Yay.
I have I love everything about that.
It's a lot of you know, learning by doing right.
You found out you had spider mites.
Okay, you know, record the strain record when you planted and all of this.
And it's you know, we may like discover some super interesting things.
Just can just throw something out there like maybe spider mites strike.
At a particular time of the year.
Who knows?
I checked on my clones.
My house is winterized in the winter in Massachusetts.
So you know, and then I did actually do a bomb also.
I mean, and then after that, because that was last year's grow.
And then after that, now I'm real careful closed loop and then with this, you know,
this droid, you know, just, you know, with everything, it's almost like, you know,
they're doing Franken weed keegan, right?
You know, it's like, and I get it, I really am not knowledgeable.
I didn't do cannabis until, you know, after I became a patient late in life.
And it just seems like there's so much rushing and corner cutting with these state weed facilities,
you know, and I don't know, it just anybody can grow it so easily keegan.
I'm telling you, I am do not have a green thumb.
I did my local garden club website because I was the only one that knew computers, right?
But I couldn't grow for beans until I met cannabis and I treat my cannabis garden now
like it's a shroom factory, right?
I'm real careful about it.
And now really honestly, I let the leaves droop between water and I don't even bother with pH,
you know, except to check the water coming in.
And also too, I have town water or city water now that I move and I do a bubbler in it
and the weed doesn't care, you know, gorilla glue, it locks me on the couch when I need to be.
And also too, you know, like there's some local people that have seeds and it's so easy to just do your own seeds,
but please do it inside.
Don't be like pollinating other people's outside crops in Massachusetts, right?
But it's amazingly easy.
And I think though that because of the rushing and corner cutting, the drive for profit, right?
And for tax monies is why cannabis is suffering.
But I don't know, I can be so weird that way, right?
You've raised a lot of good points.
And one, I just think like, you know, you see the pictures of people growing cannabis back in the day.
And they're hippies, right?
They're, you know, the revolutionary type, just the counterculture type, you know, the California hippies.
So that's where a lot of the history was.
And, you know, we were looking at the books, you know, 35 years ago, you know, they were saying,
oh, you know, they were talking about making compost the California way with, you know,
it's a lot of manure and tons of organic material.
But as cannabis is kind of slowly coming out, it's getting a little bit of a bad influence from some people who,
I mean, that's how they've been doing a lot of these large scale agricultural crops.
And so it's, you know, cannabis is, you know, they're getting a bad influence from some of the people out there.
But the bright side of this is we've got to, you know, once again, always highlight an issue as it emerges.
But, you know, now is really your opportunity to keep cannabis in the hands of the home growers and keep the plant diverse.
Because basically, the the hemp field I saw, this was a just a standard large scale farmer.
And, you know, he says he normally grows onions.
And so basically, they just grow what's profitable.
I saw another farmer in Eastern Washington, and he was growing a few crops, but what was it?
He was actually growing hops. So it's kind of a coincidence, but he was growing hops.
And basically what he says is, you know, if hemp for cannabis was profitable enough,
he would just let the hops go bad right there in the field and just have everybody spend their time on cannabis.
And so, I mean, that's how farmers think is as soon as cannabis is profitable,
they'll just clear the field and put down a bunch of cannabis.
And that's what the. Kind of get getting into different places.
But that I'll stick to the main the main point is they're just amazed at how hardy cannabis is.
He says when he plants onions, he'll have to spend like six million dollars to weed the field.
He'll have to pay people to go out and pick out all the weeds.
When you grow cannabis, it's just such a just a hardy, thriving plant.
You have almost no problems with weeds because it's just the cannabis puts down its roots.
Plants have sort of their natural defense mechanisms to the hemp can more or less by itself,
bend off weeds. You know, there's some here and there,
but it's it's nothing compared to what you would see in like an onion field.
And it's and they're saying like, you know, their onions are way more susceptible to,
you know, disease and pests than these hemp plants.
And so basically, the farmers are just amazed by them, right?
They're they're just used to growing these really, really delicate monoculture crops.
And then they get in, you know, a couple of varieties of hemp.
And they're they're just amazed. They're like, wow, this is a this is a miracle.
Right. I don't have the and not only does it fend off the the weeds for the hemp,
but they they rotate the crops. So they plant hemp there.
They harvest the hemp and then they plant onions.
And they say because they planted hemp there, there's now fewer weeds for the onions.
And they and this is where you really have to start studying agriculture.
But I think they call it a cover crop, where it's basically like you want to almost have
the crop in the soil that way weeds don't grow when it's when it's time to.
And I'll get to your question here.
So long story short is. Can this grows well.
One of the reasons it grows so well is it's a remarkably diverse plant
and grows super well under the sun.
It looks like it's thriving outside.
And what has to wonder is, you know, are we almost trying to monocrop cannabis too much?
Great. Like, are we growing too many clones of gorilla glue?
You know, are there just too many clones of gelato?
And it's just there's just not enough genetic diversity.
You're growing inside away from the plant's natural habitat.
There's bound to be viruses because from my understanding, the hoplite and viroid,
it's just on everything, like anything plant matter.
And there's a lot of plant matter in a grow.
So it's just everywhere.
So. I don't know, something to think about.
What are our thoughts? And then so here, I'll get to some of these questions.
So what are our thoughts on sativa?
Well, I'm big up on the plant cannabis sativa.
And so I personally think that's what everybody's growing.
It's real funny to hear the hemp producers speak because they know even more about
plants than I do, and they basically say, hey, this is just kind of ludicrous.
You know, we're all growing the same plant.
Different varieties produce different chemicals.
It's just they're just different, right?
Right, like, you know, different people have different colored hair.
You know, it's like plants are just like little chemical factories.
So it's just for whatever reason.
You know, one had a slight genetic, this one seed had a tiny little genetic
variation than its its brother or sister.
And for whatever reason, it can produce a tiny bit more CBD or a tiny bit more THC
and or a tiny bit more CBG or, you know, whatever you may be interested in.
And then, you know, people have just selected these different varieties.
So. So a lot of this is is just, you know, still research to be determined.
And so, yeah, let's keep at this.
And so basically, yeah, so I think some of the key data points that we should be after are
and this is what the people in the hemp field are principally concerned about is
when did you plant, when did you harvest, how much did you get from your yield?
And then you can then augment that with many, many, many, many variables,
because if you know where you were and you know when you were there,
so you know when you planted and where in the world you were, then all of a sudden,
you can now get temperature data, humidity data, potentially air pressure data,
maybe even soil data if you're planting straight there in the soil.
Potentially water data if you're relying on rainfall,
plus you can measure how much you're adding.
So long story short, these are sort of the just the classic agriculture variables.
And we talked about him one time in a statistics lesson, but I'll have to dig this up.
But at one point, we talked about an early statistician who basically just collected data
about varieties of plants, particularly when they like fruited, right, when they were harvested.
So we can do that exact same thing with cannabis.
Let's just keep track of strains, try to keep track of when they were planted, exactly how long they were
been flowering, when they were harvested, how much you got.
And then, you know, we can spice in and add some spice with some variables like light, indoor,
outdoor, soil, how much you watered it.
So we can just keep adding adding adding variables.
I think this is what we should work on, because or at least this is once again, I don't know.
I'm just going to have to do the data side because I can't home grow, unfortunately, here in Washington.
But if any of you were interested, you know, I'm here to help so we can I'm here to help.
You know, we can put together worksheets, like help augment data, you know, whatever you whatever you're thinking.
So or if you have a more pressing research question, you know, let me know.
So I know that the hops late in viroid is, of course, a pressing issue that may be the most pressing.
So I'm going to try to double check and confirm that we can get the lab director or at least the owner to speak next week.
So that that should be super exciting if we can get some some actual, you know, boots on the ground information from a testing lab.
That would be that would be the best.
OK, so. So I know I know today was more just a talking day, but I owe you all a lot.
So first, I owe you all a big thank you.
So thank you for coming and giving your attention, especially after I kind of dropped the ball last week.
But I did take plenty of pictures, so I will make sure to to write up my notes and get the pictures to you.
So that should be something for you.
I took some really cool, interesting pictures, so you can now get to see firsthand.
Well, I guess second hand through the photos, but you can now see what the hemp yield is all about.
And then. I'm going to start thinking about, you know, how we can put together a worksheet for home growers.
But, you know, let me know if you know you find any new sources of data, have any cool new ideas of your own,
have any ways we can revisit prior sets of data, because as I said.
I don't know, I was sort of just starting to just worry too much about some of these big existential problems that I completely out of my hands, right?
Like, for example, like the lab shopping completely out of my hands.
The only thing I can say is, hey, if you're a consumer, ask to see your lab results.
Pesticides, that's a huge existential crisis or problem that's way bigger than cannabis.
Right. That's cannabis is just getting a bad influence from just the, you know, the giant agriculture sector.
So that that problems, you know, as big as the whole the whole food ecosystem.
So that that's a whole problem. So how we can whittle on it?
Well, we can just say we're going to start as micro as micro as possible,
which is one home grower with one plant.
In Massachusetts, who's willing to help out and record some of your data,
like I said, just which strain you're growing, when you planted it, when you harvested it, and if you can, how how much you harvested.
We can start with that and then just scale up, see how big we can take this.
So again, I'm so my GG for even with the spider mites and the predator mites and ladybugs last year gave me over a pound.
And now I have back in black and a hash plant that's from a local seed manufacturer because I'm doing a closed loop system now.
And I'm just going to make my own seeds, too. So thank you.
I I'm volunteering. Well, if you got a pound off of one plant, then I think there's no no no no no.
It was six. I'm legally allowed to grow six. I have a little house.
I have little lights and but they're not like your traditional closet fluorescent lights.
Right. These can kick some serious sun butt.
And, you know, it's amazing like LED technology, but I get it outdoors better.
But, you know, sometimes, too, you want to be discreet.
You know, you don't necessarily want you know, you might live in a closed kind of society, too, which I kind of do.
You know, I moved into a place that's more has more people around it, not like in the country like before when I could grow outside.
But I won't even buy clones from dispensaries.
You know, it's like that's where the the viruses are.
That's where the rushing and corner cutting is.
Well, don't want to pick on anyone. But but yes, actually, definitely watch out for that.
I've actually have heard that that be super cautious about clones you see at dispensaries.
And it's it's not their fault. It's just it's just part of it.
Right. It's a. They have you have to keep these clones or cuttings in strict quarantine.
But they do it for profit. Keegan. Right.
Believe me, in Massachusetts, what they were charging for clones was highway robbery.
And I don't know.
I guess it. Right.
You have to know what you're getting into.
I'm OK with it because it's like if somebody just wants to buy a clone and just kind of grow it for fun
and maybe it died, then then a well, it's kind of like, you know, maybe you grow a quick tomato plant
you bought that already has tomatoes on it at Home Depot or something.
So kind of kind of cheating or not really cheating.
But like I said, I'm a big fan of people growing proceed.
I love to see it just I just love to see it.
Just these tiny little seeds.
And then they they send out a little tail to germinate.
And then, like you said, they grow into these remarkable plants.
And I did the quick math and you were getting about two and two thirds ounces per plant, which
my G4 last year did phenomenal.
But then also to my girls started growing past the light.
And I have the light right way above my carbon filters, way up at the top of my tight because, you know,
I grow in a small space.
So I had a little two bedroom, two bath that has 100 amp service instead of the four bedroom house in the country.
And but it's amazing how much you can grow.
And honestly, the more that you the more water that you know, the more you mistreat cannabis sometimes,
it's like she just those girls just like excrete all this oil.
It's incredible.
And I don't know, I came into it late in life.
But, you know, and I guess to because I'm a high tech girl and, you know, I never really got into the hippie movement or anything.
But you know what? Those hippies, they got it going on.
I don't know. That's what I discovered.
I absolutely love it.
And it just brings it back to the point, like, you know, the plants want to grow their weeds after all.
I don't know. I'm just tickled.
I think it's phenomenal.
So as I said, let's let's keep let's keep documenting this because I don't know.
I think if the data once again, we'll anonymize it because we definitely want to make sure the home growers stay confidential.
But I just kind of think if people kind of understood a bit more what it's all about, then I don't know.
I think it could help the cannabis industry out.
Right. And just, you know, just nice people at home, just just growing some plants and just you just are interested in the particularly oily ones.
Well, you know, it's kind of interesting, too, because I did some research, too, you know, even with kids like these kids.
Right. You know, they they grow with just a fluorescent bulb, right.
Like a little tiny bulb in a closet.
And and they still come up with some bud.
It doesn't take a ton of bud sometimes to, you know, help somebody get through a year.
Right. Until the next grow. I don't know. It's kind of interesting.
I just really hope that big cannabis, these big cannabis companies that are rushing and corner cutting weed just for, you know, taxable and what have you profit that they're not going to ruin it for everybody.
Like they did. I've got I've got faith in us. I've got faith in the people.
Right. So you just got to make sure plant stays in people's hands because it's kind of like the same incentive about asking for your lab results.
We're well, maybe maybe not. But it's like, hey, you know, if you're not going to tell us what's in the plants, then we'll just have to grow it ourselves.
So I have that medical card in Massachusetts. I paid for it.
I did the doctor appointment. I have the card. But you know what?
And I get free product. Right. So I don't know what.
I maybe 200 I paid for the card. So I get 200 free product.
But honestly, Keegan, with everything I know now, I don't think I want to buy in Massachusetts or from any state.
Well, I'm stuck in Florida right when I go down in the winter.
But, you know, because I don't think it's healthy.
I think that there's so much hidden in Massachusetts and in some of these other states.
I'm a little suspicious. I almost feel like a cannabis conspiracy theorist.
And that's crazy. But it's just like there's so much fact behind it and so much non transparency.
It's awful. It's not like you said, it's not necessarily a conspiracy because we saw it in Washington state.
There's a non negligible amount of cannabis out there that I don't know.
I wouldn't really feel comfortable consuming it.
And luckily, we can actually see the data in Washington.
Yes, it's it's not like easy, right?
Because you have to do a Freedom of Information Act and then actually go and look at it.
But at least in Washington, they listen to your Freedom of Information Act.
They follow rules and laws, whereas in Massachusetts, they do not.
You know, it's like they deny everybody's Freedom of Information Act unless it's something small, you know, that might show some monetary gain collected.
But certainly nothing when it comes to the health of medical patients.
And, you know, I don't know, I'm going to be quiet now.
I'm so disappointed, though. I was so gung ho seven years ago about cannabis.
And it's like I said, I'm doing my I was sort of in that boat even as much as this morning.
Where, yes, it's a little frustrating, I guess, seeing a I guess maybe people put in profit over people.
I'm not certain. But. But I've got hope.
And what gives me hope is when I see, you know, like, for example, you, where you grew a pound of just nice, clean,
really cool. So you know, spider mites.
So there was a little trouble last year. I did get a clone. Right.
But yeah, and that's it.
But we'll be wrapping up. But basically.
Always got to look at this, the jar half full and in Candace's case, it's maybe a bit more than half full.
So that's good. Right. A full jar of gorilla glue.
So, you know, please keep thinking about this, because obviously there is, you know.
The cannabis space could use your good thoughts.
So keep thinking and, you know, please feel free to reach out.
If you have any questions or comments or thoughts during the week.
And exactly. Let's let's rendezvous next week and hopefully learn a bit more about the Hop Slate and Viroid.
Hey, and are you going to put like some of this data onto the Slack channel so that we can start filling out the information or?
Yes, I'm going to make a worksheet and then I'll just put the.
As always, it's a starting point, so I'll put a worksheet there and then you can take it, make it your own, make some adjustments.
Throw it out and make your own new one, just anything.
So, as always, it's a starting point and then we can take it from there.
Wait, cool. Thank you. Definitely.
Thank you all for coming. Thank you for helping advance cannabis science and stay productive.
Until next week, everyone, keep being awesome.