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What's up everybody, welcome back to the All Things Croatia podcast. I'm your host,
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Stanko Zovak, and I'm bringing you the best of Croatia from around the globe.
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This episode is brought to you by Adriatic Tours, the best place since 1974 to book your
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information, go to www.adriatictours.com or click the link in the description. Now,
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eat a modalia and let's get started. Alright, welcome back to the podcast everyone. On this
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episode we have special guest, Alan Orlic. Alan is an American Croat who moved from New York
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to Croatia where he eventually started Tinker Labs. Tinker Labs is an educational project to
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help kids learn STEM subjects in a more fun and effective manner. And in this episode we'll learn
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how it all started and how it works. Alan, thanks for coming on the podcast. Thank you for inviting
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me. I appreciate you taking the time to come on here. I've already got a couple questions right
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off the bat. I want to ask about some of the differences between New York and you're now living
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in Osijek. But before we sort of get into that, can you start us off on, you know, sort of your
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Croatian background and, you know, growing up in the US, what were you doing there? Sure. My parents
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moved to the US 51 years ago. And I was born over there in New York. And my brothers and I were
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raised in New York. Went to school over there. I finished my PhD in New York and then met my wife
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in our, when my father has, you know, his hometown. My dad's from the coast in Vinicte near
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Trogir. My mom's from Durnish or, you know, in Ottavica near Durnish. And they met over there,
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came to the US. And as a family, we always spoke Croatian and English together. And we used to
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go back quite often while we were kids. And once I met this girl and then, you know, we stayed in
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touch and everything, and then she, we got married in Croatia. And then I went back to finish my
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PhD in New York. And then after finishing my PhD, we decided maybe it would be better to move back
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to Croatia than start teaching at some school, university in the US. We had this business idea,
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maybe we wanted to try. And our first daughter was born in the US. She was two and a half years old
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when we moved. And that was 10 years ago now. So as the classic fell in love with the Croatian
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girl story. Yeah. Bosnian. So you were involved in the Croatian community back at home, back in
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New York. You've been often enough to Croatia, but now living in Osijek, you know, full time,
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how different is it for you going from New York to Osijek?
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Well, that may have been one of the reasons why we wanted to move was kind of that social
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raising a child in New York. I mean, I love New York, go back probably once a year.
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But I feel like, you know, one of the reasons we're in Osijek now, which is kind of just because
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we didn't we only had a few friends from Osijek. So when we decided to move, we were offered either
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Osijek as a place to start the first franchise, which was Helen Doran English for children,
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or Dubrovnik. And we're considering Dubrovnik for a while. You know, it'll be nice living in
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Dubrovnik. And then these friends from Osijek said, hey, we'll help you get set up and everything
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if you want to come and then factor bags and move to Osijek. Never been here before. But now we love
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it. You know, we feel like we're really being adopted by the community here. And so now, you
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know, we had two daughters. I just I just love the lifestyle where, you know, they can walk to
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school, tennis, whatever they have. It's very safe, very communal, you know, great friends. We really
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feel like a that's what one of the difference, you know, not to say we lived on Long Island in New
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York. So it's not a very, you know, rough place or anything. But just in general, I think
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a kind of one major factor was I think lifestyle. To me, that sort of reminds me, it's like of my
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parents' generation, you know, how they they talk about, oh, we'd ride our bikes to school, you
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know, walk to school, whatever that. And that's sort of what I feel like sort of all of Croatia
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is kind of like now, I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's sort of the vibe I get.
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Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, living in New York for a long time, the traffic and everything
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kind of gets to you. And then so when you're over here, you can ride your bike or walk or, you know,
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rarely get in the car. It's nice to have everything right there. Like I say, for us, it's, you know,
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the measure of a man. So it's not too big, but it's not too small. So it's got everything.
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And as far as we're concerned, you know, it's really nice place plus it was a great place to
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start the business. You know, so we did. Yeah, here, Ozieck is quite the business, entrepreneurship
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and tech hub. Yeah, I have been hearing good things about Ozieck. Yeah, there are a lot of
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great tech companies over here. And yeah, well, let's let's talk about, you know, thinker labs
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a little bit. How did that. So as I understand it, you came with a different business or you were
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franchising a slightly different business. Yeah, well, first we came to open up a Helen Doran
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franchise. So we were franchisees in Ozieck. And then in 2012, and then I think 2014, maybe we
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opened up another location in Slovansky Broad, because we saw the business model was good,
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you know, why not stick stick with it, or put up another location. And then around 2016, I opened,
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I started ticker lives, open company and everything. And I had the idea for a while to create
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something like that, you know, seeing the franchise business model work and seeing that,
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you know, well, okay, we can't sell English to children the US, what kind of things in that
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education, supplemental education sector, do I see that there's a need for. And I've always been
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interested in multidisciplinary learning and subjects. And just in general, feel that children
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nowadays are lacking in that hands on learning environment. And, you know, STEM subjects are
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very important and popular now. And I figured, well, STEM is something that we can have make
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interesting and take the same or similar model that Helen Doran uses. And, you know, instead of
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English, let's teach science, technology, or math, you know, the idea is that every week we have a
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different subject. So it could be biology, chemistry, forensics, engineering, physics,
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right. And we do four or five experiments per class, around one topic. And we do it in a fun,
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hands on way, you know, and so we started with the first program in 2016, over here in Osik. And
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since then, you know, we have six programs now. So we have a program for four to six year old
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six to 10 year olds, and 10 to 12 year olds. So we have six full year programs, which I think is
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pretty impressive, you know, how many how many total students do you have? Is this something that
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it's like, say, three month long program, or you just sign up for one class at a time? How does
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that work? I think it's a full year program. So it's 40 weeks. So it tracks the entire school year.
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And it's 40 weeks, times six years of childhood, basically starting kindergarten, and, you know,
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stay there till third or fourth grade with us, which is, you know, that's fantastic for kids,
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because the idea is not to replace their education, but just a supplement to get them inspired in
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and become inspired learners and self learners, you know, and have but not
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think of learning as something that's a drag or memorizing, you know, but really get them
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get them passionate about something that they might want to do in the future.
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Now, do you think you think most of your students that are there are ones that, you know, don't excel
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maybe in in school at these subjects and need the extra motivation, or are they the ones that love
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these subjects and want more of it? Or is there sort of a mix?
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I think I think there's a mix. I would get back to your question about how many students so
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we started in 2016 with our first location kind of as a pilot program. Okay, let's see how it
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works with the teacher in the classroom. And then I think with 2017 or 18, I had my first master
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franchiser for Croatia. So I decided I didn't want to take on that that role. But I wanted to have
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someone, you know, be the master franchiser for Croatia. And fortunately, this colleague friend
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of mine from Vincuzzi is much better at that kind of business end than I am. And so now we have, I
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think, 36 locations in Croatia, plus like eight more for next year. So probably have about 50
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locations in Croatia by next by next year. And we also have Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Hungary,
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we're in negotiations with a few other countries, Slovenia, Italy, Germany. So, you know, our skill
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in this is, you know, going pretty well. And the idea is, I think, to offer something for every
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child, right? So I think in fact that I heard recently that they might implement something in Croatia,
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in fact, to see what children are better at STEM subjects, you know, which is great, I think. But
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we had something similar when I was going up on Long Island. It was called a gifted course.
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And then later they changed the name to wider horizon because that was politically incorrect
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to call certain kids gifted, right? But a lot of the idea of particular labs came out of that. So,
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you know, you get kids the opportunity to do something a little more creative because they're,
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you know, a little smarter or whatever. But my idea was, I don't like to, you know,
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segregate and say, well, this kid, I think is smarter and he deserves, I think every child
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is super smart. They have that, you know, childhood brilliance that just needs to be, you know,
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triggered, I think, you know. So it was to make it for everyone really.
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And wow, so you were, I didn't realize you were expanding into so many countries you mentioned.
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Tell me again, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, even Germany?
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Well, in Germany we're in negotiations now. So let's see what happens there. But
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what we have last year or two years ago, we've been spending into Serbia and Montenegro last year
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into Bosnia and Macedonia. And this year in Hungary, working up for first school.
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Wow, and still more plans to keep scaling into other countries.
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Yeah.
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Also, it must be, I mean, I think that even speaks for itself in the success of the program that,
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I mean, the kids like it, the parents like it, what sort of feedback have you gotten from kids and
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parents? I mean, mostly it's all positive feedback. I love it. So kind of, if I'm ever feeling down,
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I just open up Instagram and see all the schools that are open, all the happy faces on the kids.
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You know, I said, well, we're doing something good for the community.
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Yeah.
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And the franchisees are happy. I think, you know, overall, it's really rewarding, you know.
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I think this year we have like a hundred instructors, teachers working, you know,
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teaching Tinker Labs programs, which is pretty awesome. Yeah, it's a hundred people that are
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employed. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot. That's awesome. What do you think, as far as teaching STEM,
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or the programs revolving around STEM, you know, comparing and contrasting between Croatia and the
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U.S.? Do you think it's sort of a similar attitude about it, or is it completely different?
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I mean, before I started writing the program, I kind of did a lot of research, just in general,
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in what the education systems are like worldwide and everything. And I came to the conclusion
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that it's basically similar everywhere. You know, it's like, people are going to bitch about the
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education system wherever they are. You know, like, okay, they say, human is really great
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for Korea, but they have their problems also, you know. So if you look in general,
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you know, the common idea is, oh, in Croatia, the, you know, elementary and high school is
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so much harder than the U.S. and the kids are so much smarter. Yeah, that's nice if you want to
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think that. But if you look at the actual statistics, pieces, scores and whatnot,
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you know, Croatia is one, has been one level underneath the U.S. and math, which is I think
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the easiest indicator, right? So on a list of, I don't know, I don't know how many there are,
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but I think the U.S. is right in the middle at 80 or 79 and Croatia was at 80, you know. So it's like,
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I think in general, the systems are very similar. You know, with the U.S., when I went to school,
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still wasn't that, what was it? I forget which president implemented some changes, so it was,
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I think, a little more, a little better. But then since then, no child left behind, right?
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The no child left behind, which was, I guess, good, you know, but the U.S. system has its issues as
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well. And what the no child left behind that created was a culture of teach the test where,
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you know, teachers don't have that freedom to do something fun. Let's teach, you know, the theory,
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the concepts, but okay, you have a test, this is what you need to know for the test. Based on those
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test scores, you know, that's going to determine how much money we're going to get for the download,
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blah, blah, blah. So it's like, it's not a good situation for the kids, I think, you know. And
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I don't know, I think Croatia, it's similar, you know, the public education system.
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Yeah, I remember for me, that was the worst part about, you know, learning is just to teach the
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teach the test. You're only learning what you have to do to, you know, get a good grade on the test,
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pass a test, as opposed to the things you're actually interested in. And sort of on that idea,
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you guys created your own textbooks, right? So what goes into, you know, sort of the process of
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creating that and what curriculum you want to go over? Well, I started with the idea first for
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Tinker Town. So that's the class for children, first grade, first to fourth grade, basically, right?
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And the idea was to have basically a microcosm of the town and what you would need in order for
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that town to run effectively. Right? So each week, we learned about, you know, a different person in
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that town. So it could be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, you know, whatever. And then we see what
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that person, you know, what kind of scientific background that person needs to fulfill their
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job, right? And I thought that was kind of an interesting way to approach each new lesson,
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you know? And then so let's say if it's, you know, a pilot, then you'll learn about aerodynamics.
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And then I'll do four or five experiments around aerodynamics, you know, in first grade,
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which is pretty cool because they're not going to learn about aerodynamics until, I don't know,
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eighth grade, you know? But if you teach in a fun way, they can learn about, you know, lift and
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drag and all these things. So that was the idea for Tinker Town. And then the idea for Tinker
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Tots, which is our kindergarten age program. There we have basically storybooks that also
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follow their four storybooks, 10 weeks each. The idea is that the 10th week is a summary of what
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they had learned in the past nine weeks. So they read the story. And then in the story,
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there's basically a summary of all the past nine experiments that they did, you know? So because,
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you know, 20 Barney kids don't really know how to read and write that well. So we thought that we'd
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kind of embed it into a story, that summary. And then we also have Tinker World, which is for
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older children. And that's designed as a macrocosm, right? So there we're looking at history and
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geography. And basically every week, we learn about a different scientist or inventor, you know,
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which is pretty cool. Because then we have the freedom to say, okay, we want to put more women
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scientists in this because we're promoting who we think are important in the world of science and
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technology, right? So of course, we have Tesla, you know, Einstein, Marie Curie, you know? And then,
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yeah, me and my team over here, which is really fantastic, fortunate to have a really good team
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of employees. And we all really work together well together. You know, we come up with an idea for
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a class, okay, let's say we want to do a class on Einstein, what are we going to do with kind of
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brainstormed confidence of what the class is going to look like. And then we tell the designers,
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okay, let's make, you know, a few pictures like this and what the workbook of the
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question should look like and make them fun. And so it's very much a collaboration, or has been.
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And that when you're saying class, that's the one year sort of one year long class.
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Yeah. So each so we have Tinker Tots that last one year, and then there's a follow up class,
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Tinker Tots plus Tinker town and then Tinker town plus Tinker world, Tinker world plus. So there's
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six full year courses all together. I see. We have books and everything for each course.
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And how long ago remind me did you what year did you start this?
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2016. 2016. Wow. So have you had kids that have been, you know, there for four or five, six years?
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Yeah. We wouldn't even have had our first, you know, graduating because I'd have been there
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through like 15 years. That's pretty cool to see that. Yeah, it is. Do you have any,
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what sort of future plans do you have? Do you have any plans to go above and beyond
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as far as like eighth grade level? I think future plans are kind of stick with the
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franchise model and scale it up so that we can expand eventually into the US. And, you know,
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I mean, Germany is a big market now that we're considering, but we have to make sure that the
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infrastructure is there, you know, before, before we could totally commit to say, okay,
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this is the right partner for Germany or the US and let's do it. In terms of programs,
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we were thinking about maybe doing a thinker garden program. So for children that are,
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you know, even younger, three or four years old, because we found that that's one of our,
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you know, most rewarding and fun classes that we do because there's not much for
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for kids that are that young, but you really can get them excited about stuff when they are
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younger. And that would maybe be something where we would incorporate some kind of
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joint learning with the parents. So the parents would be there with the children, you know,
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and also something that we can maybe eventually pitch in the US as kind of just a separate
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kindergarten course of Tinker Garden and Tinker Tots, Tinker Tots Plus. That's three,
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there's a three years of courses that we could offer to private kindergarten in the US, let's say.
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And that's one idea. Yeah. Another idea is to start developing somewhere on line of
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didactic games, you know, that are kind of tied to the courses that we teach. So there's a lot
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of materials that we provide our franchisees and that they have to produce and realize maybe we
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should start producing some of these and maybe trying to sell them as standalone products,
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you know, that's one other direction I'm going in. And the third direction is something we've
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been thinking about for a long time, but you know, I haven't been able to commit much time to it,
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but it's maybe a museum. So like a STEM museum, Tinker Museum, which a little, you know, smaller
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scale, but someplace where kids can go and really do a lot of hands on learning. Yeah.
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Oh, that'd be pretty cool. It sounds like a massive undertaking, but that would be awesome.
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Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of my goal. One of my passions eventually,
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see, see that come to fruition. That would be great. Alan, sort of as we're winding down here,
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I want to ask just one more question unrelated to, you know, Tinker Labs and everything, but
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more so about New York and the US. Is there anything you miss about, say, New York, say,
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we'll say specifically New York? Yeah. Well, I miss the museums over there, for sure, the cultural
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level. You know, it's nice to go to New York for 10 days. I was there last year for the A-CAP
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conference. They invited me as a guest speaker, and it was really great being over there. You know,
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that hustle bustle, it's fantastic if you're there for 10 days or if you're there any day.
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You know, a little drink on you. I have a lot of good friends that are still in New York and the
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US, and I love to just visit them. But my parents are still spend half the year in New York, half
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the year in Croatia, so obviously we'll see them. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. I think for me, I've
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actually, I've never been to New York. I was always a West Coast guy. I've stayed in Los Angeles.
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I think Denver was as far as I got over there. But I mean, I miss sort of the food diversity.
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Yeah. I miss Mexican food mostly. Yeah. I hear you. That's definitely true. I like to
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cook a lot also. So yeah, what sort of things are you cooking? I'm mostly done.
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PECA is going to be one of my favorites. Maybe top that and some yanyatina.
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Those are going to be my top two favorites. All right, well, Alan, sorry, go ahead.
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My favorite experiment with cook. Again, it's just kind of one of those STEM things where it's
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an art and a science in order to figure out how to make something well and how to cook it well.
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That's true. Yeah. Especially when you think of, you know, your baba who doesn't even measure
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the things. That's sort of the art part of it. But there is the science behind it too.
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Well, Alan, I want to thank you again so much for coming on the podcast here and, you know,
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telling us about Tinker Labs and the initiative that you're doing. Sounds like it's really cool
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and it sounds like it's working really well. So definitely keep us updated with any, you know,
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new things, new programs that you got going. When you get that museum going,
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you got to contact me. That'll be awesome. All right. Well, thank you for inviting me.
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It was really good talking to you. Awesome. Thank you, Alan. Appreciate it.