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Welcome back to a new episode of the All Things Croatia podcast.
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I'm your host, Stanko Zovak.
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Born and raised in Los Angeles, I'm now living in Zagreb and studying the Croatian language.
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Before we start, just do me a favor and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're
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listening, as well as the Facebook and Instagram page.
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In this series, I'll be talking with people both in the homeland and around the globe who
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have connections to Croatia.
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We'll hear from startups, returning to Aspora, musicians and athletes, and the biggest Croatian
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celebrities at what returned my calls.
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But enough about me.
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I'm Idem Odaulje and let's get started.
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Alright, welcome back to the podcast everybody.
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Today's guest is 25 year old Croatian entrepreneur Ana Čalić.
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After getting her master's degree in science, business, and innovation, she began to work
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at her family company, Navela, which is a leader in the marine and boating equipment.
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With her knowledge of the nautical industry and innovation, she formed Croatia's first
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club for young professionals in the marine industry within the platform she created called
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Misli More.
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Misli More educates younger generations about the nautical industry and possibilities of
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sustainable development in marine.
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In this episode, we'll learn about her passion for the sea and how her new innovation combines
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Croatian innovation and sustainability.
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Ana, thanks for coming on the podcast.
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Thank you, Saka, for such a lovely introduction.
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Of course, and I'll start off by saying I knew right away that you were a true professional
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because you reached out to me on LinkedIn.
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I've been using Facebook and WhatsApp, but I know when I get something on LinkedIn, it's
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legit.
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Yeah, that's today's main networking platform.
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So if you're not in any kind of industry, if you're in an industry and don't have LinkedIn,
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you're truly missing out.
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And that's what I think.
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Yeah, I really need to beef up my profile.
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I've let that go for far too long.
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But Ana, tell us a little bit about your background.
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So you started off at the University of Zagreb?
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Yeah, so I did my bachelor's in Zagreb at the Faculty for Science, the Department for
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Chemistry.
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So it's theoretical chemistry.
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I did that for three years.
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And after that, I really wanted to have a more interdisciplinary and also international
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experience.
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I wanted to add a bit of economy and business into my scientific knowledge.
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So I found this course at the Freya University in Amsterdam.
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And it's called Science, Business, Innovation.
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And it has two different specializations.
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One is life and health.
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And the other one is sustainability and energy.
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So I chose the track for sustainability and energy.
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And I finished my master's in Amsterdam.
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And it was a truly, truly amazing experience.
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I wanted to ask, how was attending university in Amsterdam?
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I've never been there.
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What's it like?
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Well, for me, it was very different from the experience in Croatia because a lot of tracks
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in Croatia are very theory focused.
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And you have to study a lot, but you don't have a lot of practice work.
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So for instance, I had two lab classes for my chemistry track, let's say two lab classes
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for one semester, while in Amsterdam, everything was more project related.
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You had to do a lot of self work, a lot of reading through scientific articles at home
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and doing case studies, which was really good because you had to reach out to companies
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where you wanted to do a case study.
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You needed to learn how to write a proper email to approach a CEO or maybe a person
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in a more management-like position.
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And that was a really good experience because it teaches you a variety of things, which
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can actually be applicable after in your work life.
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And it's not so theory based.
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So for me, it was a really great experience.
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I'm sure aside from that, getting the international experience as well was also a big benefit.
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Yeah, definitely.
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I mean, I wouldn't say culture shock.
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I would say cultural blessing because when you network and interact with so many people,
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I always say that you can learn something from really anyone you meet.
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Like everyone has something either smart to say or something to share.
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So I think really it's a good experience.
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And then after you graduated from Amsterdam, you worked at your family company, Novella,
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right?
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Yes, but I've been basically involved with the family business since forever.
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So actually my first plane flight was when I was two years old and it was to Amsterdam
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for a business meeting and my mom brought me with her.
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So I've been basically around since forever.
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I mean, my forever.
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And yeah, when I was younger, I used to join both shows.
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So when I was 14, 15, I would work on the show for like the period of time, which when
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the show was on either Zagreb or Biograd or Split, because those are usually the local
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regional shows where we exhibit.
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We also visit a lot of international boat shows like the one in Amsterdam, Metz, Khan
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boat show, Genoa boat show.
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So we do have some other international boat shows where we go for B2B interactions.
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So basically I was working part time there.
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And while I was in my studies, I used to do also social media for Novella for all of
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the time.
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And then when I finished my studies, also somewhere in between when I had one semester
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off, I was working full time and now I'm basically taking over some key customers and also working
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both on business and marketing development.
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Wow.
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So you've been a professional since you were about two years old, it sounds like, and haven't
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stopped.
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I mean, semi-professional, let's not put it that fast.
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So who originally started Novella?
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So my mom started Novella in 1992.
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So basically at first it was a joint venture with another company, well, I would say another
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business professional from the industry.
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And then after five years they parted ways.
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But yeah, so basically the 90s.
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And she got the distributorship for Yamar diesel engines and now we're the distributors
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for all apps, Yugoslavia countries.
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So Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, and we also have Albania in our portfolio.
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So we do the distribution of engines, but we also have our dedicated service network
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and they're located in 30 locations.
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So from Copa in Slovenia to Tivat in Montenegro and they're the after sales part.
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So they do service and also sales of spare parts.
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Wow.
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So yeah, you guys are really all over the place.
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Yeah.
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Is working with the family business there what inspired you to get more involved in the
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nautical industry later on?
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I mean, definitely.
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I did do some student jobs while I was in Amsterdam, which were not related to the marine industry.
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So I did have a glance of other industries is what I can say, but also what I got feedback
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from a lot of young people, both national and international that the marine industry
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is very friendly.
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So everyone is very open for collaboration or at least giving your advice.
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And if you ask someone something, anything, they will tell you either they will either
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give you advice or give you a contact for the future.
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So everyone is really open to at least help you somehow.
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So that's it's not it.
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Of course, there is competition, but I would say it's less, less competitive than let's
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say the automotive industry.
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That's interesting.
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So when you started your initiative, mislemore, I mean, what was the inspiration behind that?
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So the inspiration was the lack of young people.
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And honestly, when I would work with no one on both shows, you would see maybe let's say
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five to 10 young people in the range until 35 years old.
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And those would usually be people who are also in the same situation as I am.
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So their parents or relatives founded the company, the marine industry, like in the
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nineties.
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And now they're also inheriting a bit of the business.
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But then I realized that there's not a lot of young people, but it's a really nice niche
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to work in.
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So you don't have to necessarily work in an already established business.
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You can start something on your own.
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And there's really a lot of opportunities.
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So you can work for a distributor.
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You can work for OEM.
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So originally I put my manufacturer that could be either someone who manufactures engines.
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It doesn't have to be solely diesel engines.
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It can be electrical engines as well, which is now a very big trend.
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You can work at the boat builder.
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You could work as a naval architect.
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You can work in a charter from sailor to base manager to a person in marketing.
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You can also be a tax solution provider or even an insurance.
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So there are a few companies in Croatia which are specified only for marine insurance and
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the damages which happen by vessel.
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So there are a lot of opportunities.
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And I saw people should know this because we live in a country with more than 1,000
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islands.
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In the last three years we've been in the top three destinations for boating.
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And the whole situation is just screaming opportunity and it would be a shame that more people
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didn't know about it.
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So then you make it sound like there's jobs within that industry but that branch out to
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all sorts of different...
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It's not just you have to work on a ship if you want to work in the marine industry.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And I think that's exactly this example which is sad.
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The ship is maybe a stereotype so everyone thinks okay, I will go to the faculty...
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Well, something related to shipping and then I will work on a boat and just sail across
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the world.
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It doesn't necessarily work that way.
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I mean there are a lot of people who finished, let's say, medicine and then after three years
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they realized this is really not my thing.
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And then they started boat building all of a sudden.
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So I mean of course they have a dedicated team around them with engineers and all who
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have more expertise in that part but really there are no limits.
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You can actually study anything from marketing business through electrical or mechanical
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engineering through something IT related and work in the marine industry.
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You can always develop an app maybe.
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There are a lot of different examples now so apps that are used for renting the boat
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so it's basically like a marine type of Airbnb or Uber if you would like to call it that way.
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So really the opportunities are endless because basically anything that is present in the
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current industries can to a certain extent be translated to the marine industry.
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That's a good point.
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I mean it's like what you said you were doing social media for novella.
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That's not like you were on the ocean on the sea there.
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Which yeah I guess that was a stereotype that I was thinking about too.
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You brought up a point about innovation within the industry.
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Right now what would you say is the industry modern at this point or is it still more
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old school would you say?
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Is there a lot of room for innovation?
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To a certain degree it's modern but not as much as it should be because it really differs
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by part of the world.
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So for instance if we're looking at marine propulsion so engines specific areas such
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as the US or the boating region in the EU they have regulations which require a specific
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range of emissions.
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So there are some types of engines which work in the US which work in the EU but none of
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these actually apply for the Asian region.
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So this is really something different because as you see it in the world the development
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stages are different in different types of the world but there is a real place for innovation.
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So a lot of companies are now producing electric engines either in-border or out-border.
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There are different prototypes for hybrid as well but also for engines running on hydrogen
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fuel cells and this is not the only part where you can innovate, you can always innovate in
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materials so maybe produce a more lightweight material, recyclable material or use more
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overall sustainable materials.
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So there is really a lot of place for innovating.
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Within your initiative Miesli More there is a club for young professionals.
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Is that separate than Miesli More or is that just a part of that or what?
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That's just a part of that because since it's a digital platform it tends to have more streams
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so more ways in which it operates and the club is now general and also hereby I invite
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everyone who is interested to join.
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So we have a tab on our website which says community and basically for the time being
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we are joining people who are already working in the marine industry, some people who are
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studying something related and want to work afterwards but also people who purely just
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have the interest because now we are building a community and in the future we will organize
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a network in events in real life so hopefully not hybrid or virtual so yeah that's so far
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from the club.
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And why do you think it's important for young people to get involved?
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Because it's the true base for networking and nowadays without networking you can't
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do anything.
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I mean of course you can try to find a job via job ad but then if you have a supportive
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community where you have colleagues who are already working in the marine industry where
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you maybe have some professionals who can give you insights or tips or maybe even give
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you a recommendation then it's of course easier.
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So with any job application it's way better if you have a supportive community behind
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you and be important context.
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It seems to me so far that in Croatia at least a little more than in the US although there
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too you really need networking just really to get any job rather than going to a job
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board but correct me if I'm wrong that's just the impression that I've gotten.
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I mean possibly but it really depends also on the type of company and what they require
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you know for any company the requirements are different and also depends on the position
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if it's something more serious less serious if it requires a specific university or a
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specific expertise so I would really say that it's quite individual.
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And what would you say is the best way for people to get involved in that industry you
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know say they're a part of the Young Professionals Club part of you know Misci More and you know
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they're interested in getting in the industry what do you think would be that first step?
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I mean networking reaching out to someone else who's already in the industry?
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Yeah definitely so first things first until we don't have the real life networking events
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going on if somebody is interested at the moment they can always shoot me an email if
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they need an advice but then what is always useful is to attend the boat show so the next
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biggest regional one will be in Biograd at the end of October and then you really have
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the biggest players in the region in the industry and you can see what the business is all about
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what they sell or distribute or produce and maybe also get in contact with people on their
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stand so I think it's always interesting to visit a boat show not purely for like sales
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or visiting reasons but also for job applications.
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Now Ana we talked a little bit about sustainability.
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I want to ask what's the environmental impact in Croatia from the marine industry?
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So I wouldn't talk about numbers because it's really the past on a lot of factors and I'm
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not a sustainable reporting expert yet this is something which I would like to achieve
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in a future stage maybe to get more knowledge on the certifications and just expertise related
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to sustainable reporting but there are some aspects which of course produce a bigger negative
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impact than I expect so of course there's charter because we do a lot of charter boats
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but there are some initiatives that want to produce maybe charter lines which rely on
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alternative propulsion there are ferries and you know the ferries have also more frequent
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lines during summer because there's a lot of tourists and of course there are boat tours
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which don't use any alternative propulsion but these are actually the points where we
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could innovate and turn to either electric propulsion or hybrid or something hydrogen
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related so ferries and the national parks could use transport and also boaters could
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use transport which is more sustainable because actually these types of transport which are
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frequent and have a specific schedule for every day I think this is where the most so
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this is where the negative impact is created.
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Well I saw just the other day maybe it was even yesterday that Croatia was ranked number
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one I think in all of Europe for quality of water like sea water.
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Yeah that's true and that's a really good statistic it's something encouraging but like
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not encouraging to damage it but just encouraging to preserve it the way that it is because
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at one side you have the statistic that says yeah we have the most clean bathing waters
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in whole Europe but then there's another statistic that says that we have decreased the number
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of living fish in our sea by in the last I don't know how many decades so they're really
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two sides of the story so we really need to take care we need to be grateful for what
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we have now but also work hard and ways how to save what we have for now so okay we can
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work from from the sea and because we live on the sea we have to work with it but to
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work with it responsibly.
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I think you brought up a good point because you can look at that statistic number one
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in water quality and say okay we don't need to do anything nothing needs to change we'll
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just keep doing this but you know that's that's not the way to go because you need to look
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into the future and you know make sure for the next generations and the generations after
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that you're going to keep that same water quality.
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What are some of those I mean technical ways that we can make the industry more sustainable
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is it just you know switching fuel sources?
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So not really because switching fuel sources is just the primary step there is a lot of
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background that needs to be taken care of so number one which we also promote with Misley
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More's education because you need to have people who are educated on the innovation
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and how to take care of it so some people will need to innovate additionally some people
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will need to know how to maintain these new technologies and it's not something that is
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taught in the existing curriculum of universities so apart from maintenance there is also infrastructure
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because okay in current marinas you do have a small electrical cabinets to fuel your boat
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but the current infrastructure wouldn't be so sufficient if all the boats in the marina
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were running on electric engines and also if we plan to have boats that are running
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on hydrogen in the future we will also need infrastructure for charging and maintenance
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in the future as well.
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So there's a lot of things that we need to do before you can reach that level of change
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within the actual boats in the water?
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Yeah definitely and I think it's a change on the whole level of the society so from
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universities from education to new work positions we're going to employ people who are only
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related to these new technologies so it will bring a whole new wave of both education courses
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and work spots so I think if this comes to realization in the next 10 years we will see
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definitely a major shift.
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I just wanted to point out that the other one was like a few weeks ago I know the water
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quality is supposed to be number one in all of Europe and so far I've been here a couple
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of summers I've been here this whole summer and the ocean is beautiful here, the sea,
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the Adriatic but I did one time in Makaraskar see an oil spill you could see the like motor
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oil, black motor oil sitting on top of the water and that was really like sort of a wake
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up call and I thought wow because it was gross it was getting on your skin, it made you not
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want to swim and that's not the croissure that people know or the croissure that people
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want to see so definitely at some point there has to be something done, regulations to make
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things more sustainable so things like that don't happen but at the same time I want to
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ask sort of a difficult question what effect will some of those changes have on say locals
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who rely on the marine industry say someone with a small operation, one boat and our price
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is going to go up are they going to have to get a different boat, put a different engine,
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is that going to be difficult, is that going to be possible, what sort of effect is that
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going to have?
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That's definitely going to be difficult because it requires financial funds to do something
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like that but this is where governmental support would be very valued to have some sort of
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subsidies for alternative propulsion like you already have a lot of countries like
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Norway, Sweden and the Netherlands and possibly other western European countries where the
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government is just giving subsidies if you buy either an electric car or maybe if you
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switch to electric boat but also something that Amsterdam has done it has banned to boats
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that are running on diesel or petrol and in the city center so on the city center canals
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so this is something also which we can have dedicated areas which are only approachable
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if you use alternative propulsion.
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And are there any current measures being worked on within the Croatian government like that
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or no?
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I don't have any knowledge of that to be fair that's out of my scope a bit.
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That's very yeah but I mean that seems like definitely an important step to you know it
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seems like you're going to have to get the government involved to you know not only have
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the regulations but also have these measures that allow people to apply to adhere to those
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regulations.
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Yeah yeah definitely so as I mentioned to you before it's really going to have to be
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a change on all levels but I think overall it will be a good change I think if we want
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to preserve what we have and be more sustainable it really needs to happen and if we have all
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these kind of changes we accept them and we work towards them then we will achieve a modern
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society within Croatia which I think it's something a lot of people especially young
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people would want because then you would create also a lot of new workspaces which would employ
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people within Croatia and hopefully young people wouldn't have to look for better paying
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jobs outside of Croatia because we have a massive emigration from young people and it's
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also a bit sad because we have all the opportunities to be great we just need to seize them.
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That's a good point so you know in the marine industry for example you know any shift in
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the innovation there is going to lead to more jobs in that industry.
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You mentioned earlier that Croatia I think you said it was like the number three voting
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destination?
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In the top three yeah.
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In the top three.
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Do you see any shift in that or I mean does that seem like it's going to stay the same
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for next year or the next coming years?
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Probably because numbers are increasing for booking up course there was the covid year
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which impacted everything a lot especially for tourists who are coming to Croatia by
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plane if we're looking for tourists that come by car so from Italy, Germany and Austria
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for them it wasn't such a big hurdle because you can easily sit and drive for like five
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six hours and they're here and it's fine but in the covid year there was a slight decrease
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but overall we do see larger numbers in booking so I think that Croatia is just now starting
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to get more traction and it's being featured in different local magazines for tourism
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but not only tourism so yeah I think it's just starting.
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I think it's not only like local companies and charter boats that people are coming to
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Croatia and then you know going on those boats but also yachts that people are sailing you
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know from other places to Croatia.
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Yeah, yeah true and maybe one thing because we have let's say if you own a super yacht
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you will have less maintenance costs in Croatia than you will have on the French Riviera so
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that's also one benefit for them.
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Anna what do you see as the best case scenario for the Croatian marine industry both you
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know internationally and on a global scale right both nationally and on a global scale.
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So overall I see a lot of opportunities to go sustainable in developing alternative propulsion
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and then also increase boat building infrastructure and also opportunities so to create maybe some
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exciting and modern new models with the creation because we do have the infrastructure for
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that it doesn't have to be big boats it can also be something for recreational boating
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but I also see overall just an increase of young people who will bring in new ideas so
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maybe it can be something tech related as well and then this would be supported by the
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change in the curriculum so maybe we see some new university courses which will promote
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more marine industry and maybe a bit more collaboration between industry and academia
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but as a part of governmental subsidies so just a confusion in the whole ecosystem.
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Would you ever be interested in being a professor teaching one of those courses?
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I mean maybe it sounds appealing but maybe when I'm like 40 because now I think that
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I wouldn't I mean it really depends you know there are a lot of young teachers but I think
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that I also have my fair share of expertise to gain and also some experience to maybe
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you know have a few more valid points to say to students.
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Yeah that's true.
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What do you think are some you know concrete steps that you can take to try and change
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this education and curriculum and get new courses and possibly new programs within the
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Croatian universities?
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I think it needs to be the voice of the public so I'm not sure how it works when universities
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want to change the curriculum but I think it's something that both professors need to
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vote on and also students if they want to see something new so I think it really needs
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to start from voting and then maybe assembling a letter and then sending it to I don't know
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the ministry I'm really not sure how the process works but I think it really needs to be supported
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by a lot of voices.
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I want to ask some more some lighter questions now you know obviously you've been involved
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your whole life in the marine industry where is your favorite place to go sailing favorite
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coast?
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So I would say favorite island is the island of Silba so it's in the northern Adriatic
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region and it's really one of the I don't know it's a peaceful spot and it's a smaller
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island has everything that you need and also it has the it has a small village with every
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infrastructure that you need but also beautiful beaches and walks so it's really really lovely
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island.
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Huh what was it called again Silba?
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Silba yes S-I-L-B-A.
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Huh yeah I've never heard of that one.
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I only basically know the ones down in Damatia I've been you know the Courche-L'Aquois
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brought some of those ones but up north and even you know Chiba-Nique and up I really
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don't know any of those islands and haven't been to any.
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Is there a difference between sort of the northern and southern islands?
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Maybe a bit in the nature but I wouldn't say as much what's specific is of course the island
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of Mjøt has its own micro-reclimate and also the National Park Quaranti which is out of
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the world having a nurse so yeah what's one island that is completely different from all
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island is the island of Susak because it's basically made of sand only and it's different
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because all other islands have more of a rocky structure so this one is made of purely sand
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so that's what makes it special.
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Huh I might have to check that one out because it's bittersweet for me the rock beaches here
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you know sometimes I miss the sand in LA but then you know when you're ready to go home
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and you don't have to clean all the sand off your body then you say okay you know I don't
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mind these rock beaches at all.
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Yeah there is a positive side to it but if you want to visit I think there is a ferry
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line that goes from Zadar to Malilosin and then from Silvath to Susak or maybe I mixed
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a few islands but actually I think there should be a ferry line from Zadar which takes you
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to these islands so it's manageable to visit them even if you don't have a boat.
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Yeah I might have to look into that then.
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Anna as we're running you know long time here I just wanted to say thank you so much
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for coming on the podcast and taking the time to you know come on here and tell us a little
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about the marine industry, about Mislimore and your young professionals club.
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Is there anything you know we have a lot of listeners here from around the world is there
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anything that they can get involved in within your club and Mislimore and within the industry
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in general here in Croatia.
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So if you're in the region you're always welcome to join the club you can follow us on Instagram
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and LinkedIn and Twitter so we're all on types of social media and you can get any kind of
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information from our link and bio link which is basically lnk.bio.mislimore which is M-I-S-L-I-M-O-R-E
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so this is one thing and of course if you're from anywhere in the world and want to visit
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Croatia maybe get involved you can always shoot me an email at nfo at Mislimore.com
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and I'll be free to have a chat with you and tell you more what you're interested on.
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Great well Anna thank you so much again for coming on the podcast I really appreciate it.
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Thank you for having me.
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That's it for today's episode of the All Things Croatia podcast. Thanks for tuning in and I hope
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you all enjoyed it. You can subscribe to the Patreon and check out the All Things Croatia
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Instagram page to stay updated. Feel free to reach out to me with any questions, tips or ideas
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and make sure to tune back in to the next episode. Thanks again and vidimo se!