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Welcome back to a new episode of the All Things Croatia podcast.
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I'm your host, Stanko Zovak.
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Born and raised in Los Angeles, I'm now living in Zagreb and studying the Croatian language.
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Before we start, just do me a favor and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're
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listening, as well as the Facebook and Instagram page.
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In this series, I'll be talking with people both in the homeland and around the globe who
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have connections to Croatia.
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We'll hear from startups, returning to Aspora, musicians and athletes, and the biggest Croatian
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celebrities and will return my calls.
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But enough about me.
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Either modalia, or let's get started.
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All right, welcome back to the podcast, everybody.
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Today our special guest is Kodi McLean-Brown.
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Kodi is the author of Chasing a Croatian Girl, a book that tells the true story of
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how we fell in love and eventually leaves his life in the US behind to move to Croatia.
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He's now a professor at the University of Zagreb, and we're going to hear about his
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story and his perspective on life in Croatia as an expat.
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All right, Kodi, thanks for coming on the podcast.
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Sure, thanks for having me.
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Yeah, of course.
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Let me give a backstory here.
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Basically my cousin told me that I have to read your book.
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I've been in Zagreb for a little over a year.
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I went home in February for a month and it's talking to one of my cousins.
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I told her I'm going back to Zagreb, and she said, okay, you have to read this book.
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And then you have to interview this guy on the podcast, the author, Kodi.
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I said, okay, okay.
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So I got the book.
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And then the next day my parents overheard and they bought the book for me the next day.
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I brought it with me on the plane and I read it over here.
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And I have to say I really related a lot to it as a fellow American, especially the little
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things you're pointing out, the differences that you get from the Americans perspective
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going over to Croatia.
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And basically for those unfamiliar with the book, you meet a Croatian girl in the US
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in Oklahoma and you fall in love and eventually you move to Croatia.
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Is that sort of the gist of it?
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That's an hilarity ensues.
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Yes, hilarity ensues.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Before we sort of get into that and how everything happened, can you walk us through just a little
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bit about yourself?
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I know you mentioned the book growing up.
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You knew pretty much nothing about Croatia, right?
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Yeah, I knew, which is really sad the more I think about it because I even had a friend
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in high school who was from Croatia.
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And I didn't even bother like seeing where that was.
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Now to be fair to myself, this was basically before the internet.
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No one used the internet to look up stuff.
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And I don't know if our maps in the Oklahoma public schools would have been updated.
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So to be fair, I might not even be able to find it on a map because we might have not
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had maps with Croatia on it, might have just been still Yugoslavia.
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But yeah, I knew Croatia just from the background of when the war was going on and I was a young
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kid, but in terms of any actual knowledge about it, no, I didn't know anything.
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I kind of thought it was funny in the book you related it to sort of what us Americans,
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I guess, stereotypically think of the communist countries standing in line for bread and the
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cold.
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You said something like that that I thought it was kind of funny.
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Yeah, I mean, my image of Eastern Europe or communist Europe was like military parades
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and then peasants with sticks on their back and kind of like the whimsy of a chagall painting.
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It was either like whimsy or miserable.
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I definitely didn't expect it to be like beautiful and sunny and feel like parts of Italy and
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stuff.
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So yeah, I was pretty ignorant.
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And well, how did you end up meeting Vana, who you eventually married?
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We just ended up taking a class together.
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In America, when you are in, especially in graduate school, the first day of class, everybody
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goes around and introduce themselves and she was like, I'm so Vana.
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And she said she was from Croatia and I was like, oh, that's interesting.
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And then as in the book, it was a very cold night and I thought about offering a ride
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home and I thought that would be creepy.
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And so I drove off and then I thought, well, but it is really cold.
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And I'd lived in Montreal, I knew what it was like to be walking around in the cold
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with no friends.
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And so I circled back to try to find her and she was gone.
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And then I thought, well, that's okay because she's from Croatia.
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She must be used to the cold.
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And of course, she's from Split and she hates the cold.
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You know, 15, 18, however many years later.
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And she acts like the winter is a personal insult to her.
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They don't like the cold over there.
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Split's pretty nice.
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Got pretty nice weather all year round.
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What were your first few interactions with her like?
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Was there a language barrier?
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I'm sure there was a cultural barrier.
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Yeah, I mean, her English was really good at the time.
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She was in graduate school in the States.
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And we would have like, it was a night class.
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So it went on for about three hours and so we'd have like a break in the middle and then
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she and other people would go smoke outside.
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And I just, I used to smoke but I wasn't smoking at the time, but I'd still go hang out with
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them and then she and I'd kind of talk a little bit.
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And then I actually did look up Croatia where she was from and saw that it had been basically
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the Florida for Romans.
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That's where Diocletian went to retire.
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And I mentioned that at one time and she was like, yeah.
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And so, you know, but she, she was just intrigued with me, I think, because I was, at that time,
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I was reading a lot of Marxist writings and post-Marxist writings.
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And so I was really into this, to Marxism and stuff.
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And so I was always talking about it.
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And not that she's a Marxist, but she was just intrigued that an American was talking
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like that.
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So I think that's kind of what made her willing to give me the time of day.
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And then, you know, from there it sounded like you, you were doing more research on Croatia.
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You were trying to get things to talk to her about, you know, what kind of happened next?
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How did that, how did that relationship advance?
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Yeah.
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So what, what actually happened is at the time I actually had a girlfriend, but we broke
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up in the middle of all this.
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And I was alone in this small town in Oklahoma.
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To be honest, it's a pretty miserable place.
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And one night I was like bored.
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And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to go out and to the bars by myself and, you
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know, just see what happens.
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And so I walked into this bar and then she was there with this other girl who is now
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a family friend who's from, well, she's, she's from Vietnam.
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No, she's from Laos, but she grew up in a Laotian refugee camp.
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So we, you know, it was very cosmopolitan small town in Oklahoma.
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Anyways, they were both sitting there and they looked like they had, they didn't know
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what to say to each other.
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They didn't know, they looked as equally awkward as I was walking in and they both seemed relieved
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to see me because they knew that I would just talk and they wouldn't have to worry about
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it.
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So, so we ended up spending the evening together and, you know, got to know each other that
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way.
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And it was right at the end of the semester.
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And I thought, wow, this girl is pretty cool.
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And so then how did that evolve into, I mean, you go to Croatia with her?
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Well, yeah.
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How long after was that?
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Well, that was a while because she actually ended up living in New York for the summer.
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I went and visited her, tried to take her relationship to the next level and she was
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like, uh, no, because she, you know, she was, she just didn't think this was really going
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to happen.
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And so when she came back, we finally ended up dating and then we were graduating from
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school with our master's degrees and I didn't really know what to do.
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She didn't know what to do.
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So she was going to come back to Croatia and I was going to come back with her.
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I even bought the plane ticket, but then I got a scholarship to study Arabic in Cairo
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at the American Resource Center or American Center in Cairo, whatever.
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And so I went and spent about two months in Cairo.
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And in the meantime, I got a job in Istanbul.
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And so then I texted her.
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She was like, do you want to live in Turkey?
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And she was like, yeah, that'd be great.
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So we ended up actually living in Turkey for two years.
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And then I decided that I really needed to do a PhD.
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And so we to sort of like make sure there were no doubts and to settle everything, we decided
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to get married.
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So we got married and then I left, came back to America to do my PhD.
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She stayed in Croatia.
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And then we were back and forth until finally, um, when I got my Fulbright to do my dissertation
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research, I came to Croatia and then we decided to try to stay here for good.
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Well, it's got to be tough getting married and then immediately living in separate countries.
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You know, it was, but it was, it was kind of funny because it's like, you know, if we
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think back about it, like maybe we weren't really ready to get married.
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And so it was kind of like we got to get married, but we still got to like live alone.
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I keep, you know, keep all of our, you know, like I still got to, you know, do whatever
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I wanted and play video games and, you know, all this other stuff and do research and,
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you know, I don't know.
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Uh, it worked out, but, um, it was, it was hard once my daughter was born because then
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they came to the States for six months and then they left for another four months.
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And so I didn't see them for those four months.
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And that was, that was when I was like, okay, enough of this.
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And then that's what made you decide to actually move to Croatia, you know, full time.
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No, it was, I mean, I was going to move one way or the other, but I got the, the school
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bright fellowship.
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And so I just made it easier because it meant I had money for the first year.
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So it was just, but it was just the, after that we weren't going to do the back and
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forth.
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You know, once I came, we were either going to stay in Croatia together or we were going
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to move back to America together.
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You know, because once the kids involved, like then, you know, I mean, if you, if you,
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when you're gone for a few months, I mean, that's, that's huge in a kid's life.
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Yeah.
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A few months is a long time.
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Definitely.
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Yeah.
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Um, well, going back to your first sort of vacation to Croatia, your first visit
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and what were you expecting and what was different for you?
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Um, hmm, I, what I wasn't, what I wasn't aware of was just how much coming to split and being
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in split with my wife would change my impression of her.
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Not in a sense of like, I was like, Oh, now I see you differently, but more, it was like
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the first time I realized that I really got to see her completely, you know, because
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she was in her own element.
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Um, you know, in terms like, I didn't really have any expectations because I had learned
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by dating her for two years that all of my expectations about Croatia were wrong.
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So I think I just kind of cleared my brain.
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I just wasn't ready for some things like how slow people drink coffee, how, uh, you know,
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my mother-in-law would basically make me eat and how we would have to organize every day
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around her schedule to give us lunch, you know, things like that.
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I just, you know, the, the inclusiveness of everyone involved in your daily affairs was
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just, I was not ready for that.
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Um, you know, because in America it's, you know, no one really cares too much about like
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what you're going to eat.
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Um, yeah.
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Well, I wanted to ask about your mother-in-law.
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Um, you know, the first time you met her, were you intimidated?
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How hard was that to, to try and get on the good side?
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Um, no, I wasn't intimidated.
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She's great.
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And, you know, one of the things that I think really impacted me and ultimately made, you
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know, helped me make the decision to ask my wife to marry me and stuff was how the first
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time I was at my mother-in-law's house, it just felt like home.
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I mean, it felt very natural.
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Um, even with all the awkwardness, even with the weird small slippers she wanted me to wear.
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Um, you know, it just felt very inviting and comfortable.
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And you know, and so that was, that was the thing that surprised me the most and part
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of it might have been because, you know, we were living in Istanbul and it was, that was
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completely different and very strange.
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So Croatia seemed relatively normal compared to, you know, a city of 20 million people.
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Um, but it was just, you know, and, and she and I didn't start having, let's say a conflict
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until, uh, until we had a kid because, you know, the mother-in-law wants to make sure
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you're warm and wants to make sure you're fed.
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And if you're, if you're not eating, then you must be starving.
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So you better be eating.
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And I could kind of deal with all that.
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Okay.
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But it's when, you know, she wanted me to do those same things for my kid.
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And I'm like, no, like she's not going to starve.
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You know, and so then it was like an evaluation of my own parenting was like, you know, from
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her, it's like, Oh, you're not doing this right.
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Oh yeah.
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That's tough.
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Yeah.
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And so that was a little bit, that was a little bit tricky.
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It's one thing to deal with those yourself, but to then have to, you know, adopt those
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and pass those on those traditions.
230
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Yeah.
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Especially too, because there was so much that I would do that she didn't like because
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of the cultural differences.
233
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Like she was against cold milk.
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00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:54,400
You know, so like if I gave my daughter cold milk with cereal when she was two, she, yeah,
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you know, and as you know, like in the States, cold milk and cereal, that's like a normal
236
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breakfast.
237
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Yeah.
238
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,480
That's a great breakfast.
239
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Yeah.
240
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:03,680
And she would get mad at me.
241
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:08,400
And so it was really, you know, all these, that's where the cultural differences really
242
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:15,440
came into focus because, you know, there's really nothing, you know, culture is, comes
243
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,720
through parenting in a lot of ways.
244
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:23,360
And so, you know, we, us both trying to parent, you know, because she was pointing to him,
245
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,520
she is going to try to parent my kid.
246
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:31,360
Well, that really exposed the gaps in our positions.
247
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:32,360
Yeah.
248
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,760
I mean, you mentioned the cold milk.
249
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,680
That's honestly one of my biggest pet peeves, I think so far about groysia is the milk.
250
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,080
Like I really, not a big fan of the milk and it's like not even refrigerated.
251
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,080
It's just in boxes.
252
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,840
Like to me, it's really strange and I'm not a big fan of the taste.
253
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:48,840
Yeah.
254
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,120
I don't drink much milk, but it is funny.
255
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,960
I've done some things with like groups of Americans and you know, it's at breakfast
256
00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,480
in the hotel, they have cereal and they have milk and then they pour the milk on the cereal
257
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,280
and they're like, oh my God, this is warm.
258
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,120
Just like, why would you put warm milk on cereal?
259
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,120
And then I laugh and say, haha.
260
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,240
Yeah, you've dealt with all those things before.
261
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,320
I want to talk a little more about some of the cultural shock that you experienced, that
262
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,680
you mentioned in the book.
263
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:27,280
One of them, tropu, if you can tell a little bit about your first experiences with that
264
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,360
and some of the things you mentioned in the book about that.
265
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:31,360
I thought those were fun.
266
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:36,520
Well, it was just sheer confusion because you know, where I'm from, if you're hot, you
267
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,240
open a window and try to make a breeze.
268
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,200
It's summertime and split and I'm hot.
269
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And I'm like, well, let's get a breeze going.
270
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:51,200
And then this woman kept saying something that I didn't understand and shutting the
271
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window and I was like, what is going on here?
272
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,800
And then I finally, you know, slowly realized, oh, it's this propu thing.
273
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,560
And then I, you know, people explained to me or my mother-in-law would explain to me
274
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:09,080
that, you know, if I have the window open, I will, you know, infect my kidneys somehow.
275
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:14,120
So, but I will say this though, now, like, it's very strange because I was so against
276
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,040
this idea, you know, like this is absolute nonsense.
277
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:23,280
There's no way that the draft brings illness or makes you sick or wet hair can make you
278
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,360
ill.
279
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,480
But now I'm not so sure.
280
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,600
And so, yeah, like it's very weird.
281
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:36,560
It's like this Jungian, you know, zeitgeist sort of like when you're immersed in the cultural
282
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:42,600
map, a culture enough, you will adopt its beliefs, even if it's unwillingly.
283
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,640
And so now I'm like, I closed the windows and I put on jackets and, you know, I dress
284
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:52,280
my kid a little bit more than they probably I should or would in America.
285
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:53,280
Also, you've been converted.
286
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,800
And when I went back to, yeah, when I went back to the States, everybody was like, what
287
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,680
the heck has happened to you?
288
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:05,000
Our Croatian now, and I was like, yeah, I mean, my niece was was combing her wet hair
289
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,360
in the winter.
290
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:08,200
And I told her, I said, you should dry that.
291
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,200
And she said, why?
292
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,120
And I said, because it's cold outside.
293
00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:12,600
And she's like, right, it's cold outside.
294
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,400
And I was like, oh my God, I did it.
295
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:21,600
I took the external temperature and applied it to whatever we do inside.
296
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,200
You became one of them.
297
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,200
Yeah.
298
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,840
And then my sister was like, you can't get sick from wet hair.
299
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,880
She was like, I know you're right, but I also think you're wrong.
300
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:36,240
Are you a big fan then of Rakhia too as a as a medicine?
301
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:42,520
Oh, sometimes, you know, yeah, if I'm feeling down, you know, if I feel like something might
302
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:47,400
be coming on, you know, but I'm like, oh, maybe I'll drink a little Rakhia.
303
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,400
That will cure it.
304
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,840
So actually, I just did a presentation yesterday.
305
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,800
I'm in a like Croatian language class here.
306
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,320
And I did a presentation yesterday on the Rakhia and how I went and interviewed a couple
307
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,000
people on the streets asking if, you know, is it an important part of Croatian culture
308
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,600
and do you think it can heal?
309
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:05,600
It has healing properties.
310
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,880
And a lot of them were saying yes.
311
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:13,200
They're saying, yeah, you know, if your throat hurts a little, if you got a stomach ache,
312
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,000
you know, drink a little Rakhia.
313
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,840
I mean, it's a real thing over here.
314
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:23,200
And I don't know, even I've tried a little medica, you know, if my throat is hurting
315
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,200
or something easy, I don't know.
316
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,200
I don't know about the science, but I'm trusting the culture.
317
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,200
I guess.
318
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,200
Yeah, there you go.
319
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,680
I mean, you know, I'm, you know, I go both ways.
320
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,640
Like so I'll get vaccinated and I'll also have a bottle of Rakhia.
321
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,200
You know, double protected then.
322
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:42,200
Yeah, double protected.
323
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,200
So yeah, me too.
324
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,280
I mean, if my stomach's a little upset, I'm like, you know, I'll take a little bit of
325
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:47,280
Rakhia.
326
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:53,000
But we have a problem now because like we have tons and tons of bottles of Rakhia.
327
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,560
And of course they're all in like bottles of other things.
328
00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:01,000
And I keep kind of putting them places and then when Punita comes, she's like, these
329
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,000
shouldn't be here.
330
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,000
They need to be here.
331
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,160
So then she'll move them into like a cabinet or something.
332
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:07,160
And we had these bottles.
333
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,080
I mean, it's like we have a Rakhia collection.
334
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,960
Like some of these bottles we've had for, you know, 10 years.
335
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,680
And I know we're not going to drink it.
336
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,920
And I'd like to free up the space for something else, but no one will let me get rid of the
337
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,200
Rakhia and the, you know, doughnut or Coca Cola bottle.
338
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:24,200
Yeah, classic.
339
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,200
You know, why not?
340
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,520
Like we're not, you know, we're not going to drink it.
341
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,320
So you never know.
342
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,160
My family always keeps them in the Yana bottles.
343
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:35,160
Yeah, yeah.
344
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,160
Yeah.
345
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:37,840
And it's like the shock at any time.
346
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:45,560
Anytime you find a bottle in a cabinet, it's 99% chance it's not what you think it is.
347
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,320
It's not the label, you know.
348
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:49,320
It's classic.
349
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:50,800
I wanted to ask about, you know, coffee.
350
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:51,800
You mentioned that earlier.
351
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,320
Are you a big coffee fan?
352
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,200
Were you before, you know, you came to Croatia?
353
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:56,920
Yeah, but not in the Croatian way.
354
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:02,760
I mean, I like, I like drinking coffee because it makes me awake and more alert and work
355
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,000
harder and, you know, it's nice that way.
356
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,320
You know, but I do like having coffee in Croatia.
357
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,400
But, you know, yeah, I was shocked.
358
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,000
Like the first time I was here, you know, my wife and I went to the garage and had coffee
359
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,000
and we met some of her friends.
360
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,800
You know, I drank my very, very small cup of coffee in about two minutes.
361
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,080
And then I realized like, oh, crap, we're going to be here a while because they hadn't
362
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,080
even touched theirs.
363
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:34,160
And I still don't understand how, how she can make it last two hours.
364
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,560
I just don't get it.
365
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:36,960
I'm maxed 45 minutes.
366
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,240
I mean, it's such a small cup.
367
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,920
I don't even know how many ounces is it, do you know?
368
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,280
No, I mean, it's, you know, it's like less than eight.
369
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,520
I mean, it's insane.
370
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,120
It's insane about how, how small it is and how long they can make it last.
371
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:51,120
Yeah.
372
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:55,200
And so, you know, it used to be, you know, difficult to do the things that, you know,
373
00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,640
I enjoyed like go get coffee because I would have to sit there forever.
374
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,520
But now, you know, now I have my own friends, I have my own circle and, you know, it's,
375
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,120
you know, like I said, hour 45 minutes, I can do that now.
376
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,200
Do you ever miss the giant Starbucks coffee or no?
377
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,080
Yeah, I do.
378
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,720
You know, I would, I would like it to be able to get one every now and then, you know, but
379
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,800
I don't want Starbucks to come to Croatia.
380
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,680
I mean, I don't care actually.
381
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:24,680
They can do what they want.
382
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:29,840
But, you know, sometimes I'll go to McDonald's and get like a big McDonald's coffee.
383
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,760
It is kind of weird because it's changed because there are coffees to go now everywhere, but
384
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,720
they're still small and, you know, but at least you can do that.
385
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,600
You see, when I first got here, if you asked somebody for a coffee to go, they'd just look
386
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,240
at you like you were insane, or if you asked for an Americano, like the waiter would be
387
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:50,240
like, I'm not going to ruin this perfectly good cup of coffee by pouring very hot water
388
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,240
into it.
389
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,240
Please.
390
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,640
And now they know it's people do it more often.
391
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:57,640
Yeah.
392
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,600
I think now I see those all over the place.
393
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,760
That kind of leads me into something I wanted to ask if you've noticed any shift since you've
394
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:11,480
been here in, I guess, sort of less Croatian culture or more, you know, Americanized sort
395
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,200
of trends going on.
396
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,200
Yeah, definitely.
397
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:21,120
I mean, unfortunately, you know, I think, first off, like, you know, just the, and I
398
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:22,120
don't know if it's America.
399
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:30,320
I think it's capitalism in some ways because like the work day has gotten more sort of
400
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:36,360
hectic, so people, you know, even us, like we cook less than we used to and we do more
401
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:42,760
frozen stuff or we do delivery or we go to a restaurant more often.
402
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,560
I mean, that's also happened as our income has gone up.
403
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:50,520
But like coffee to go, you know, I remember, you know, in split, there used to be like
404
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,760
one McDonald's.
405
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,000
And now like there's more malls.
406
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,000
So there's more McDonald's.
407
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,680
There's more fast food.
408
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:04,200
There's more of the like chain bakeries, you know, leaners taking over everything.
409
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:11,440
So it just kind of seems like it's more commercial than it was when I first came in, say, 2007
410
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:12,440
was my first time here.
411
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,680
And part of that's because it's joined at you, you know, I mean, it's just kind of inevitable
412
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:18,840
what happens.
413
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,760
But I smell lunch less often when I enter a building, you know, used to be when I first
414
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,160
got here, when you entered a building at lunchtime, you could smell it on all the different floors.
415
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:33,640
But, you know, now people are working, the older generation, maybe they don't live together,
416
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,400
so they're not there to cook or whatever.
417
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:43,200
And so I think that that that older way of life, maybe that was around sharing socialism
418
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:48,480
and even before, I think that's starting to change and, you know, slip away.
419
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,160
Yeah, I mean, it's I guess it's got good parts and bad parts about that.
420
00:23:54,160 --> 00:24:00,040
I mean, I guess it's sort of a natural progression with, you know, the economy and everything
421
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,440
that things become more capitalized.
422
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,240
But it is sad to see, you know, some of the culture, I mean, I guess not the culture is
423
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:12,040
leaving, but, you know, you see some more influences from other cultures, I guess, which
424
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,360
I guess that's not a so bad either.
425
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:18,200
I'm not really sure how to say it, but you know, I mean, you know, on the other hand,
426
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:24,320
you know, like, you know, we're just, you know, I'm getting older, my wife's generation,
427
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:25,960
you know, our generation is getting older.
428
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:34,120
And I don't see my wife becoming a Ponica, right, you know, or a Sveikarava or a grandma,
429
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:36,000
like the same way that my Ponica is.
430
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,600
You know, so it's also just, you know, it's generational as well.
431
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:45,720
Like, you know, I mean, she, you know, she's still concerned about how much we eat, but
432
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,520
it's just not not quite the same.
433
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:53,440
You know, so I think even in that sense, like, you know, as older as, you know, Generation
434
00:24:53,440 --> 00:25:01,640
X gets older and replaces the boomers, that'll, that alone is going to make it different because
435
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:06,720
we didn't grow up in, you know, the same way that they did and have the same priorities
436
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,720
and things like that.
437
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:08,720
Yeah, definitely generation.
438
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:14,080
I mean, across all cultures, it's a generational difference like that.
439
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:21,000
Well, Cody, since you wrote that first book, you've written a sequel and you started a
440
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,600
podcast, you have a blog.
441
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,120
Let's get, let's get into a little bit about these, you know, first the sequel, when did
442
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:31,480
you write that, how long after you released the first book?
443
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,120
The first book came out in 2014 and I wrote the sequel.
444
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:40,520
It was ready to be published in 2017, but then my publisher went out of business.
445
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,280
And so then I had to wait until there was a new publisher and then it came out at the
446
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,400
end of 2017.
447
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,720
So and it's called Croatia Strikes Back.
448
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,600
And it was sort of like, you know, my publisher wanted me to do the sequel because I guess
449
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,720
because the first book was quite successful.
450
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:56,960
So they said like, do another one.
451
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,440
I said, okay.
452
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,840
And you know, but it was like, you know, the first book I was really optimistic.
453
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,920
And then the second book is a little bit more real, you know, which is, which is like the
454
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,440
most Croatian thing you can do is be less optimistic.
455
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,960
You know, the only time I experienced optimism with, among my Croatian friends is when they
456
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,560
are looking for a parking space.
457
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,400
It's the only time they're optimistic.
458
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,400
And so I wrote that book.
459
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:29,000
And then I wrote a third book that's a novel that is about a fictitious city where all
460
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,520
the characters from holidays live.
461
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,480
So like Santa Claus is a real person that the Easter Bunny's real and they act like
462
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,200
the mafia.
463
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:45,040
And it's like a noir sort of detective story that I think is ultimately disappointed everybody
464
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,720
because they wanted another book about Croatia.
465
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,560
And then I haven't really blogged much because, you know, I think if I was trying to do the
466
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:59,280
blog now, I don't think it would work as much because, you know, the internet and social
467
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,680
media has just become so visual that if I wanted to do that now, I'd have to do TikToks
468
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:09,080
or, you know, a blog or something.
469
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:14,680
And when you're a 43 year old guy, you just don't really want to do TikToks.
470
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,440
Yeah, TikToks sort of loses its appeal the older you get, I think.
471
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,440
Yeah, you know, I'm like, I don't want people to see me looking like that.
472
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,640
So yeah, so I haven't really done that.
473
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,960
Now I'm working on other projects, other books, trying to do stand up comedy.
474
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:30,960
Oh, really?
475
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:31,960
Yeah.
476
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:32,960
So I was doing that.
477
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,960
How's that going?
478
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,920
Because actually I've been looking for, there's not a lot of English opportunities in English
479
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,440
like open mics and stuff.
480
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:41,440
Yeah.
481
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,440
I've seen.
482
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,760
I mean, you can, you know, I just crashed the Croatian open mic and do it in English
483
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,520
and, you know, everybody understood.
484
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:48,520
Really?
485
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:49,520
Yeah.
486
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,160
So, you know, I started that in 2019 and it did pretty well.
487
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:59,000
And then I even got some paying gigs and I opened for a guy named Pejabiovic who's like
488
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,480
one of Croatia's first stand up comics and then COVID happened.
489
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,840
So then I hadn't done it until last week I opened for him again.
490
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,680
And so now I'm going to try to get back into it.
491
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:11,680
So.
492
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:12,680
Oh, that's pretty cool.
493
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:13,680
Yeah, it's fine.
494
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,880
Whereabouts are you going around Zagreb or all of Croatia?
495
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,960
Yeah, I just, no, I mean, you know, my plan would be to, I'd like to get like an hour-long
496
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:29,880
material of solid stuff and then be able to like travel around and do my set.
497
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,000
But now I just do open mics and stuff in Zagreb.
498
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,040
You know, and it's funny that when I do it for an English crowd, because most of my jokes
499
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,880
are about Croatia and Croatian.
500
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:46,200
And if I have like too many, you know, Dutch people or Norwegians in the audience, they
501
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:47,640
don't get any of my jokes.
502
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,200
Me and all the Croatians, like, they're like laughing a lot.
503
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:58,120
Yeah, you need that balance of demographics to be able to relate to not understanding Croatia,
504
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,440
but also enough to know about Croatia and why you don't understand it, I guess.
505
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,560
I mean, I was doing a set right before COVID.
506
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:11,360
And I was talking, telling the story about when we tried to take some coolant to America
507
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,920
and also trying to get gifts for everybody.
508
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,360
And so we just got everybody by Adara and then my mom wanted us to bring coolant to
509
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,360
the States.
510
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,240
Then at the customs, they were like, you know, interrogating us.
511
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,360
And so I gave up the coolant and everybody's like, boo, go to your idiot.
512
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,400
But to the audience, and then I asked them, like, you know, do they know what coolant
513
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,600
is?
514
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:33,600
And they were like, no.
515
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,320
And I was like, how long have you been in Croatia?
516
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:36,320
They're like nine months.
517
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,320
I was like, what?
518
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,200
Nine months and you don't know what coolant is?
519
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:41,840
Get out of your expat bubbles, people.
520
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:42,840
Yeah, come on.
521
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,320
Even getting pizza at the pecoras, you get it with coolant sometimes.
522
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,960
Yeah, you know, so go to Slavonia, live.
523
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,520
They also didn't know what Bayadera was, which was even more shocking.
524
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,600
I mean, actually, I was going to ask, I'm not sure.
525
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,280
You don't know what Bayadera is.
526
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:06,000
Bayadera is this chocolate by Crash that's like the universal gift in Croatia.
527
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Like, if you don't know what to get someone, you get them Bayadera.
528
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,640
And then they take the Bayadera and they put it in their secret cupboard and then they
529
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,200
re-gift it later.
530
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,200
What is it though?
531
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,200
Like a gift basket?
532
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,920
It's just like, no, it's like a chocolate.
533
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,120
It's like a type of chocolate.
534
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:30,240
But it's in like a really nice golden package, you know, and it looks neat and shiny.
535
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,520
And so it looks better than it actually is, but it's a pretty solid gift.
536
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,000
No one's going to be upset that you gave them Bayadera.
537
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,240
There's just different levels.
538
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:47,920
You know, Bayadera is maybe what you give somebody for helping you get an appointment
539
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,560
at the doctor, right?
540
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:55,440
Or like every time I come to a talk, people give me Bayadera.
541
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,880
And so it's really, it's just the gift you give when you don't know what else to get.
542
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,080
That's Bayadera without saying it.
543
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,520
But Bayadera doesn't say, here's the gift I'm giving you because I didn't know what
544
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,520
to get.
545
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,080
So it's not, you know, it's just, it's a very neutral solid gift.
546
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,080
Because yeah, it's just a box of chocolates.
547
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,120
It's not that blatant, but it's always a classic.
548
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,720
So does everyone, everyone just re-gifts those?
549
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:19,720
Or do you actually?
550
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:20,720
Yeah, pretty much.
551
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,520
I mean, you know, like, yeah, I don't even know what it tastes like.
552
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:25,520
No, I'm joking.
553
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:32,080
I mean, whenever we get some Bayadera, we put it in the cupboard because you never know
554
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,360
when you're going to need to give someone some Bayadera.
555
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:35,360
Yeah, I felt bad.
556
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,320
You know, I was reading your book and you were talking about, you know, the culture of gift
557
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,120
giving and everyone giving gifts.
558
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,960
And I sort of had like a movie flashback moment thinking of all these people, like giving
559
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,080
gifts and like everything that I've witnessed.
560
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,680
And I never gave anyone anything.
561
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,360
And I had like this movie flashback scene.
562
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,440
I was like, oh my God, like probably everyone thinks I'm a, you know, I'm a jerk.
563
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,880
I haven't given anything to anyone.
564
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,560
And I'm picturing all these times where people around me are, you know, giving gifts when
565
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,560
I go to someone's house or family's house.
566
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,160
And, you know, and it's, but it's just funny because like, even, you know, I've lived here,
567
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,320
you know, 12, 10 or 11 years, I guess.
568
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:19,360
And I still, I still don't do it the way I should because it's just not in our nature.
569
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,880
You know, I just don't think that like when I go to someone's house, I need to take them
570
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,960
a random gift and, you know, but then they come to our house or they send their kid to
571
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:29,960
our house.
572
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,400
And I'm like, yeah, every time they have a random gift, it's still, still I'm like,
573
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:41,800
oh, so I hope everybody forgives me and Stonkel because it's just not in our nature.
574
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:42,800
We're not trying to be jerks.
575
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,800
We just don't understand.
576
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:50,280
And, you know, like with Croatians, it is in second nature, you know, like my wife
577
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,800
will not, it's like, I don't leave the house without checking to make sure I have my phone,
578
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,840
my wallet and my keys.
579
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,760
And I swear she's like, I'm not going to leave the house.
580
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,000
She doesn't leave the house without checking to see if she has the right gifts for people.
581
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,000
Wow.
582
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,200
Yeah, that's, we're just not used to it.
583
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,760
You know, we can, we deserve a break.
584
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:08,760
That's right.
585
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,080
So, but yeah, definitely a lot of things to get used to culturally.
586
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:17,560
I mean, for me, at least in the little over a year that I've been here.
587
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,120
So Cody, what are you up to now?
588
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,480
I saw that you're teaching at the political science faculty in Zagreb.
589
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,480
How's that going?
590
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,480
Yeah.
591
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,880
Well, I wish my students were a little bit more motivated.
592
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,000
You know, it's just different because here they have like school for free.
593
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,720
That's a crazy concept to us.
594
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:36,720
Yeah.
595
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,840
And I'm like, come on, like take advantage of it.
596
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,400
But at the same time, they're like, well, it's free.
597
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:42,400
Who cares?
598
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:43,400
Right.
599
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:49,680
And I'm like, ah, you know, I wish they would, you know, care more about learning.
600
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,080
And you know, so what if it's an 830 class?
601
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,560
You should still come.
602
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,440
But other than that, you know, other than their motivation, it's great.
603
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,440
I mean, I love my job.
604
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,440
I love it when I do get through to them, when I see that they actually learn something.
605
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,720
You know, and every year I have a few students that are great.
606
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,600
You know, and I can't say that they're any like worse than American students.
607
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:12,800
It's just a little bit different.
608
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,760
You know, and I can't compare them to me because I was a big nerd who went on to get
609
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:18,760
a PhD.
610
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,480
But no, it's great.
611
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:22,480
It's a good job.
612
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,240
I'm lucky to have it.
613
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:28,880
You know, it's the Croatian dream as to how Stalny dojámi pulsa, which is a steady state
614
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:29,880
job.
615
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,800
You know, it's through that job that we're able to stay in Croatia.
616
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,000
So, yeah, so I'm teaching.
617
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,000
Oh, sorry.
618
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,400
I was just going to ask what exactly, you know, what classes exactly are you teaching?
619
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:41,640
Oh, it's English.
620
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,200
So I teach second year English to journalism and political science students.
621
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:50,380
But you know, the big thing there is that their understanding of English when it comes
622
00:34:50,380 --> 00:34:54,800
to like reading and listening is very, very high.
623
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,560
So most students need to work on producing English.
624
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:05,800
And so I try to have them write and do little presentations and just kind of relax and let
625
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:12,120
us use the language to communicate, not to like be strict on the rules, you know.
626
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,640
And I do that through teaching with the journalism students.
627
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,320
Basically, it's a bunch of vocabulary and then teaching them how to write what is called
628
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,120
narrative nonfiction.
629
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:27,960
And then with the political science students, it's basically English with American politics
630
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,840
for the first semester and then English about EU politics the second semester.
631
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,600
And economy and stuff.
632
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,160
Well, so you're teaching English.
633
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:37,760
Have you learned any Croatian?
634
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,720
I mean, of course you've learned some, but how good it is your Croatian?
635
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:45,120
Oh, you know, I mean, it's hard to know.
636
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,400
I mean, I studied it for three years when I was doing my PhD.
637
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:54,040
But then when I got here, I was speaking, you know, with this horrible accent like,
638
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:59,600
yeah, jeevee, ooo, ha, batskoe, and nobody would talk to me.
639
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,880
And then at some point, the accent just clicked.
640
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:09,680
And you know, when I'm out and about, you know, if I'm in my daily life, I don't speak
641
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:17,440
English to anybody outside of my house unless I'm teaching, you know.
642
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,480
So in the classroom I speak English, but you know, if I'm talking to my colleagues at work
643
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,280
or something, I try to speak as much as I can in Croatian.
644
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,200
But you know, it's still, so my Croatian is pretty good.
645
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:34,040
But you know, at the same time, you'll still get a word or phrase that you're like, what?
646
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,840
I don't know that.
647
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,000
And this happened to me, it was funny, I was at Moup applying at the, you know, Ministry
648
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,800
of the Interior at the police, applying for my permanent residence.
649
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:50,160
And to get permanent residence, you have to have a certificate about the level of Croatian,
650
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,160
you know.
651
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,640
And so I had that certificate.
652
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:58,280
And the lady used this word for my visa or something, she said, dolsvo la.
653
00:36:58,280 --> 00:36:59,480
And I didn't know what that was.
654
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,400
And so I asked her to like repeat herself or to explain it to me.
655
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,480
And then she just said it again, which is what a lot of people do here, including my
656
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,840
mother-in-law.
657
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,000
And then I was like, what?
658
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,920
And then she was like, you don't know Croatian.
659
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,280
And I was like, I do know Croatian.
660
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,600
Here's the certificate saying I know Croatian.
661
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,360
I just didn't know that word.
662
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,360
Meanwhile, all of this is in Croatian.
663
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,240
So you know, at the desk for foreigners, right?
664
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:30,000
So at the place where you're supposed to apply if you're a foreigner to a woman who doesn't
665
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,200
know English, but only knows Croatian, telling me I don't know Croatian, in Croatian.
666
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,960
And I'm arguing with her in Croatian that I do know Croatian because I have a certificate
667
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,680
saying I know Croatian.
668
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,640
So every now and then there'll be like a word that hooks me up or some phrase.
669
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,240
And usually, I mean, I can figure out from context if someone would explain it to me.
670
00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:51,040
But you know, so.
671
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,040
Yeah.
672
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:57,080
Well, I mean, Croatian is such a tough language for an English speaker, for a non-Slavic language
673
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:04,200
speaker to get a grasp of all those patissi, all the grammar and such weird constructions
674
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,760
coming from an English background.
675
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:12,440
Well, yeah, I mean, the problem is just, you know, depending on the verb, everything changes.
676
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,600
You know, so the subject changes, how the verb is conjugated, but then based on what
677
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,160
the case it is, then that change, you know, that changes the adjectives, the changes,
678
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,200
the nouns, you know, it's all shifts.
679
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,840
And you know, whereas in English, green is always green.
680
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:29,840
Yeah.
681
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,440
It doesn't ever change.
682
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,800
So you know, yeah, it's very, it's very complicated.
683
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:41,240
So one thing I found is people here are so forgiving except for the lady at the police.
684
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:45,120
You know, I mean, a little bit of Croatian goes a long way.
685
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:50,560
And you know, people have been very, 99% of people I encounter are very encouraging about
686
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,240
how I speak and they want me to speak and they're very forgiving.
687
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:58,120
And you know, they don't really care if you mess up cases, you know, as long as they can
688
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,120
understand you.
689
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,120
Yeah.
690
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,680
Like I'll go and I'll speak to someone with the worst Croatian ever and you know, they
691
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,280
don't really care.
692
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,800
Well, like I know it's not, I know I'm speaking terribly because like I know I'm learning
693
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,480
these grammatical structures in school and sometimes I'll like say a sentence and then
694
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,400
a half second later in my head realize I said it completely wrong and like still people
695
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,520
will try and compliment your Croatian and as long as you try, you know, they see that
696
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:28,200
and I think they, I think they get pretty happy when they see someone speaking Croatian
697
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,880
that obviously, you know, it's not from Croatia.
698
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:31,880
Yeah, that's right.
699
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,000
And I, you know, I mean, if you, you know, to me, if you live in the country, you should
700
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,320
try to make the effort, you know, and that's sort of what I do, you know, and I've also,
701
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,440
you know, I can like, you know, I read the news in Croatian, I follow the news in Croatian.
702
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:51,760
So, you know, I feel pretty integrated into the, into the country through the language.
703
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,240
But you know, I can't write in Croatian because whenever I try to do that, it's just writing,
704
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:00,080
it's writing English with Croatian words.
705
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,160
Well, so now you're living in Zagreb, you were living in Split for a little while before
706
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,600
or at least spent a lot of time in Split.
707
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,840
What are some of those differences for you?
708
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,840
Is it better living in Zagreb or do you like Split?
709
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,400
Oh my God, you're gonna, you're gonna get me in trouble.
710
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:20,000
Yeah, I mean, I prefer Zagreb just because, well, for two reasons.
711
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:26,240
One that's quite silly actually is Zagreb is flat, which means I can walk pretty much
712
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:30,240
wherever easily where Split is a lot of hills.
713
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:34,800
And so I'm gonna have a hard time walking one way or the other and start, you know,
714
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,600
I just hate hills.
715
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:37,600
I'm from Oklahoma.
716
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,640
Yeah, I was just gonna say, you know, that makes a lot of sense.
717
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:48,320
You know, the mentality of Zagreb is different because it's more diverse and sense of like,
718
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:53,720
it's lots of different Croatians where Split, Shawnee and people from Split are so proud
719
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:57,600
of Split, but yet in my opinion, they just don't take care of it.
720
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:07,640
And that hypocrisy or contradiction just really bothers me, you know, and it's also Zagreb's
721
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,800
a bit quieter, you know, Split has, I think there's a law in Split that every third person
722
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,720
has to have a scooter that goes really loudly and has to drive it around at two in the eight
723
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:23,680
to two a.m. And one thing, you know, one thing that I've learned is having loud noise bother
724
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,800
you at night is an American thing.
725
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,440
Like it's only me that's bothered by the scooters and stuff.
726
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,400
Everybody else just sleeps fine through it.
727
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:38,320
So, you know, I mean, I like Split when I'm there, there is a special type of energy to
728
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,640
it, but I'm really happy to live in Zagreb.
729
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,680
You know, to me Zagreb is Zagreb is the perfect city.
730
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:50,840
Yeah, I mean, it's a great mix of, you know, having that Croatian culture and being there,
731
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,200
but while also you're in a big enough city to, you know, have some other influences and
732
00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:01,200
you can go to, I don't know, for example, what a Mexican restaurant over here and I
733
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,360
mean, I don't think it's very good.
734
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,480
I've actually I've never been, I think there's only one, but yeah, there's apparently there's
735
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:07,600
apparently one that's okay.
736
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:14,040
I don't want to go because being from Oklahoma, we have quite good Mexican food.
737
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,040
And so I'm worried it'll be overpriced disappointment.
738
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:23,920
But yeah, just Zagreb is just big enough without being a big pain in the butt.
739
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,640
You know, and Split, you know, I mean, it sounds silly, but like Split doesn't have
740
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,880
the right infrastructure, you know, like the tram system in Zagreb is really nice.
741
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,480
Split, I feel like you have to have a car.
742
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:40,040
There's still so like it's really pain in the butt to park and being from Oklahoma,
743
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,720
like 90% of where I'm from is parking lots.
744
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:47,240
Oh, you know, it's just very it's very stressful for silly reasons.
745
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:49,640
But these are the things that bother me.
746
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,080
Well, I think it's funny that you complimented the tram system because for us foreigners,
747
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:55,400
you know, we think it's great.
748
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,960
But here in Zagreb, any local you'll ask, I think is going to tell you how they don't
749
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:00,960
like the trams.
750
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,960
They're slow.
751
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:02,960
They don't come on time.
752
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,840
Yeah, I mean, you know, being from the Midwest, I think it's great because, you know, I'm
753
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,080
used to buses that come by every hour.
754
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,080
Yeah.
755
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:16,760
So, you know, yeah, I like it quite a bit.
756
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:22,360
You know, and I don't know, it's just funny that the things that stress me out, like people
757
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,160
would be like, oh, splits on the sea.
758
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,160
How could you not like it?
759
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,000
And I'm like, well, because there's nowhere to park.
760
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,320
And that just sounds ridiculous.
761
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,560
But that is what it is, you know.
762
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,160
Yeah, parking is rough for sure.
763
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:37,560
That's not a lot of spaces, especially down in Makarská is where I spent most of my
764
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,920
time along the coast here in Croatia and there's nowhere to park over there.
765
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,600
Yeah, absolutely nowhere.
766
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:49,960
One of my most popular tweets and it's a joke I use in stand-up is how 400,000 people have
767
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,680
left the country in the last 10 years and there's still nowhere to park.
768
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,560
That's pretty funny.
769
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,760
Yeah, it's true, dude.
770
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,560
Well, Cody, you were sort of running low on time here, but you know, I wanted to thank
771
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,040
you, you know, so much for taking the time out of your schedule to come on the podcast
772
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,800
and talk a little about, you know, your books and your life and what you're up to now.
773
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,600
And I know you thought I was going to get you in trouble with that last question, but
774
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,280
I've got one more that's really going to get you in trouble here.
775
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,640
I want to ask Dinamo or Hayduk?
776
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:21,640
Oh, yeah.
777
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:22,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
778
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:28,600
You know, I just plead I'm neutral because I'm American and I don't care.
779
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:33,520
You know, I will always root and I love to cheer for the national team.
780
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:34,520
Yeah.
781
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,680
I'm disappointed that the World Cup is in no member this year.
782
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:39,680
Like what?
783
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:46,080
I mean, that's the corruption of FIFA and the Qatar, Qatar selection is frustrating because
784
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:52,720
I when Croatia was doing so well in last year, last time World Cup, it was just this, you
785
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:55,440
know, amazing experience.
786
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,880
And ever since then, I mean, I love whether it's in the Euro Championship or the World
787
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:01,880
Cup.
788
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:02,880
I love cheering for Croatia.
789
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,440
You know, I love it when we play in terms of local stuff.
790
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,760
Like, you know, I don't really care about Hayduk or Dinamo.
791
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,560
No, I know.
792
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,800
I don't care about the bad blue boys or Tortsita.
793
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:20,880
You know, I feel like it's dumb that when I go to split, I have to like make sure that
794
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,840
I have a high duke towel in my car because it's from Zagreb plates.
795
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:25,840
Yeah, geez.
796
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,320
Yeah, I've heard that too.
797
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:34,720
So, you know, I mean, I don't understand the love of the same thing in America.
798
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:39,400
Like I don't understand professional sports period, like why people are like, you know,
799
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,800
such diehard fans of things that they have nothing to do with.
800
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:44,800
Yeah.
801
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,960
Well, I mean, as far as Dinamo, Hayduk, for me, it's just it's safest to whatever city
802
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:50,960
I'm in.
803
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,960
That's who I root for, you know?
804
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:53,960
Yeah.
805
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:54,960
But definitely the national team, of course.
806
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,920
Yeah, I love following the national team.
807
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,920
Well, you know, as an American, we don't have a national team, you know?
808
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:04,040
I mean, except for the Olympics, but no one watches that because NBC has ruined it.
809
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:11,400
But you know, there's no like national team that everybody can get behind with our sporting
810
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,400
events.
811
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:13,400
You know, you're excited.
812
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:22,040
It's either, you know, the Yankees or the Mechs or, you know, the Cowboys or, you know,
813
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,040
the Chiefs or something, you know, like it's very regional.
814
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:30,560
And so I really like it when we play here because it's just everybody's behind the
815
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,280
team and it's just it's just great.
816
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:33,640
Yeah, it's a crazy atmosphere.
817
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:34,640
I love it.
818
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:35,640
Yeah.
819
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,080
Well, Cody, you know, thank you again.
820
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:38,320
I'm one book in of yours.
821
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:39,920
I'm going to have to read those next two.
822
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,240
Well, thanks for having me.
823
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:42,240
This was fun.
824
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:45,880
And, you know, I'll come on again if you need me.
825
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,360
That's it for today's episode of the All Things Croatia podcast.
826
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,720
Thanks for tuning in and I hope you all enjoyed it.
827
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,800
You can subscribe to the Patreon and check out the All Things Croatia Instagram page
828
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,320
to stay updated.
829
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,800
Feel free to reach out to me with any questions, tips or ideas and make sure to tune back into
830
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,320
the next episode.
831
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:29,280
Thanks again and vide most it.