Welcome back to a new episode of the All Things Croatia podcast.
I'm your host, Stanko Zovak.
Born and raised in Los Angeles, I'm now living in Zagreb and studying the Croatian language.
Before we start, just do me a favor and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're
listening, as well as the Facebook and Instagram page.
In this series, I'll be talking with people both in the homeland and around the globe who
have connections to Croatia.
We'll hear from startups, returning to Aspora, musicians and athletes, and the biggest Croatian
celebrities and will return my calls.
But enough about me.
I'm the Modalje and let's get started.
Alright welcome back to the podcast everyone.
Today our guest is a good friend of mine, Zrinka Šapro.
Zrenka is from Konovole down by Dubrovnik and works there as a tour guide of the old
city in Dubrovnik.
She's also involved with dance and yoga and today we're going to find out a little bit
more about her and hear some cool information that she gives on her tours as well and hopefully
we'll come away with a little more knowledge than we had before.
Zrinka, thanks for coming on the podcast.
Thank you, Starco, for inviting me.
It was quite exciting.
I know you wanted to make a little statement before we started to everyone.
Yeah, yeah, sorry.
I'm going to apologize because of my grammar.
I do some kind of small mistakes, so if someone's going to...
I'm grammar-nasty.
That's why I'm apologizing in advance.
Because I, myself, I'm a grammar-nasty.
Yeah, I see on Instagram you're always posting those language memes, grammar memes.
So I know you're very...
I love that.
But your English is perfect, so you don't have anything to worry about.
You speak French too.
Yeah, I never mentioned because I'm more in love with Portuguese, but yeah, I also speak
French.
Well, yeah, that was one of the questions I was going to ask you because I knew you
spoke Portuguese and you actually give tours in Portuguese, right?
Yes, and in French, and in English.
Wow.
And in Croatian.
Everything.
What is that, four languages that you're giving tours in?
Four, yeah.
How did you...
I mean, that's incredible.
How did you learn in school, Portuguese and French?
Well, French I started in my elementary school because my sister, my older sister, she was
learning...
Studying...
She was studying French and then, you know, younger kids are always like, oh, I'm going
to be like my sister.
So I decided to start learning French too.
But then I fell in love with it and I continued on my high school and then college.
And then when I came to college, Croatia is great because we had a lot of TV shows that
are like in foreign languages, but we have just subtitles, so it's not synchronized.
And we had a lot of these Brazilians in Portuguese TV shows that I was watching when I was...
I was a kid and I fell in love with the Portuguese, but I didn't have an opportunity to learn
it.
So when I went to Zagreb to college, I saw that they're offering Portuguese and I was
okay, that's it.
Portuguese it is.
Wow.
So you didn't start Portuguese until college?
Yeah, I didn't start until...
Yeah, until 18.
And I think the languages are one way of getting know people, nation and country and everything
actually, culture.
So that's why I love languages.
It's describing everything about those people, about their culture, tradition.
So you get the identity of those people.
So that's why I love languages.
That's true.
I mean, certainly, and the other way around too, for when you're giving tours, for example,
and people are able to hear this information in their own native language, French or Portuguese
or English.
I mean, that's definitely you can learn a lot more like that.
It's easier for them.
They can remember easily a lot of things because our history is really rich.
So it's a little bit complex, but...
And they appreciate it, you know, although though you have always some small mistakes
because I'm not surrounded by those languages, besides English, I'm surrounded by it.
But French, Portuguese, we don't have a lot of TV shows or movies.
I have to search for those.
So for them, it's really, they appreciate when someone from Croatia speaks their language.
They're like, whoa.
And I mean, the other way around too, when I try to speak Croatian over here, I know
it's terrible, but a lot of people appreciate it.
That doesn't matter.
That doesn't matter that it's terrible.
We appreciate it.
You're trying because not a lot of people are going to speak Croatian.
It's not easy language.
So...
Zarenko, when did you first start becoming interested in, you know, giving tours and becoming
a tour guide?
Well, it was always somewhere in my conscience because, like I said, I love traveling.
I love communicating with people.
I always wanted to be a teacher or professor.
And after the college, in college, of course, you're always learning grammar, literature,
history, but you never speak.
You know?
And I said, like, okay, I need to go there in the mass and between, to be between people
and start using these languages.
And then I said, okay, I love my country.
My Dupromnik is amazing.
It's easy summer job.
So I'll just do that one season and then I'll go, I'll do something else or I don't know.
And then I, on 2015, yes, 2015.
It was my first year when I decided to come back for summer in the Bronnick from Zagreb
and then I decided to do tours.
And that actually, it was quite herbal year, full of stress.
But that's actually the year when I started to use a lot of French, English, of course,
but I never had a lot of problems with communicating in English with people.
But French and Portuguese, those were two languages that I didn't have.
I wasn't, was not surrounded by those languages.
So I decided to do tours and it was worth it.
I just loved it.
I fell in love with the city again, although I love it all the time, but I fell in love
with the city, with the history.
And it's completely different when you learn in school about your history and then when
you grow up and when you learn about it and you actually start, when you start to understand
the history.
How do you mean by that?
You know, we were in school and they were talking, yeah, the Bronnick was Republic.
We had this, we were first for this, we were first for that.
And I was like, oh yeah, right, right, right.
But then when you grow up and when you realize, oh my God, in 14th century, this small city
was independent.
You had other empires around us that had thousands and thousands of people, armies, weapons,
money, and we were, what, 5000 people that were independent and we were one of the biggest
forces in the Mediterranean, you know, and not just the Mediterranean, but we were worldwide
known.
So for me, it was like, whoa, but you never realized that when you're 15 years old, you're
like, yeah, yeah, right.
Yeah, that's true.
Speaking of that, how did the Bronnick manage to stay, I mean, independent like that when,
you know, it was one of the like premier trading places on the coast there, right?
So how come they were able to, you know, no one wanted to fight them?
And take them over if they were so small?
I mean, I guess that's where the walls come in and part of the, you know, that sort of
history.
No, city walls of the Bronnick started to get built in 11th century already.
Those are typical medieval cities, fortifications.
They were building everything around the center where they had people that lived.
And of course, the center of our republic and the city was the old town of the Bronnick.
But the Bronnick always knew that they had the most powerful position in the Adriatic
Sea and it's next to the exit to the Mediterranean, which means next to the entrance to the Mediterranean.
So they figure out, okay, we have to protect this.
They had the land on their side because we have a lot of rocks around.
So they decided to build a city on the rocks, on the higher rocks so they can protect themselves
from up, you know, from the higher level, we can say.
And Venetians actually conquered whole Croatian coast, including the Bronnick.
But the Bronnick never was completely conquered because the Bronnick was always rebel city.
They knew their thing.
They never wanted to be part of someone else.
And from the moment they started to be here and live here, they started with trading,
they were started to be a maritime center, trading center.
They were great sailors.
And what's the most important thing?
They were great diplomats.
Everyone said like diplomacy and maybe when someone mentions diplomacy, that's like Switzerland
or some other countries.
But the Bronnick was the center of diplomacy.
This is where diplomacy was invented because they were the line between East and West.
They were the line between Muslim region and Catholic region.
But literally, because behind the mountain that is just next to the Bronnick was Bosnia
Herzegovina, which in the past was under Ottoman Empire.
And those two Ottomans and Venetians hated each other and the Bronnick was in between.
So to protect themselves, they invented diplomacy.
They were talking lovely sentences with Ottoman Empire on one side and lovely, lovely sentences
with Venetians on the other side.
And the most important thing was that Vatican, the center, Roman Catholic Church, the Pope
was for the Bronnick because they were great Catholics.
So they played those cards.
So we always said in the Bronnick that with everyone be polite, but with no one for real
these.
That's the saying over there?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they're all kind and polite.
They were great with everyone, but they were thinking with their own head.
They could say whatever, but they knew that their plan was something else.
So they were always able to sort of negotiate themselves out of trouble?
Always.
The Bronnick, if they couldn't resolve the problems with the words, they always had
the money.
In 16th century, the Bronnick's Republic was one of the richest republics in Europe.
And yeah, and it's small.
It's really small.
You know, you visit it, so it's small.
So whenever they couldn't resolve the problems with words, there's money.
They were paying off.
Okay, what's your price?
And everyone had price.
So.
And did they have any goods that they were exporting or they were simply trading between
goods from other countries?
Trading was the main thing.
Trading between the countries, they were the only Catholic republic or country at that
time that had permission to trade inside of the Muslim territory, which means whole
eastern part, Turkish Ottoman Empire part was just for the Bronnick.
They were the only ones who had this permission.
And then they had mines in Bosnia Herzegovina.
Then they had salt.
And in the past, we know that they didn't have refrigerators.
So refrigerator was salt.
To conserve all this food, fish, meat, you had to have salt.
So in 16th century salt was considered as white gold.
And who had that was really, really rich.
That's why we built another city walls around the city of Ston, which is around one hour
from the Bronnick towards Split.
And this is where we have huge city walls, the 5.5 kilometers long that are protecting
the saltworks that we have there.
Yeah, that's right, you can see the salt fields from up on the road.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there are 13 pools that even today are in use.
So even today, they're producing salt using the same old traditional technology.
So this is all taking place in the 16th century.
From 14 to 19 was republic, but majority like golden period was end of 14, 15, 16th century.
End of 16, beginning of 17th century.
And then you mentioned the walls were in the 11th?
Yes, 11th century was when they started to build small fortifications around.
So the main wall was built in 11th century.
And then it took them three centuries to finish the walls.
So from 11th until 14th century, the whole city was fortified.
But then because the weapons were developing, of course, enemies were getting stronger and
stronger.
They were always changing the fortifications.
They were adding some fortresses or smaller soldier houses.
So they were always improving city walls and the city itself.
And were they occupied during those 300 years of building or that was all independent?
So the independence came, the official independence came in 1358.
Until that period, we were under Venetian government.
Then we were changing our governors, we can say.
But the Bromnic as mentality and identity was always independent.
The only thing they were not still in that time, they were not strong enough to separate.
But in 14th century, when they succeeded to have enough money, enough power and then Vatican
holding their back, they succeeded to have their freedom and independence.
And that wasn't a violent, there was no war?
No, no, the Bromnic was never violent because they had no army.
They had just guards.
If there was some problems and the Bromnic had to fight with someone, they were paying
to the barbarians, to the criminals.
They were paying to criminals to fight for them.
But the Bromnic never had big army.
So even though if they started a war with Venice in that time, they would lose because
Venetians had huge army.
Ottoman Empire on the other side, also huge army.
So whoever wanted to attack the Bromnic could easily do that.
But like I said, the Bromnic was protected on other things with Vatican as the center
of the Catholic religion and diplomacy and money.
So those are the means that they were using to avoid problems.
Never violence.
Even in 19th century, when Napoleon troops came here in the Bromnic, when the Bromnic's
Republic was embellished, they decided to avoid the war.
They decided to open the gates to French government, to French army and led them in the city to
avoid that Russian army and French army meet in the city and destroy the city itself.
Because they really loved their city.
All this money that went or they earned went to the city.
They were improving the city, they were improving the life here.
You have strict rules that you had to follow to live in the city.
And whatever you did, you didn't do that for your glory or your prize.
You did that because you loved the city.
And we're like the main old city as we think of it, you know, in the walls.
Is that only royals live there or even common people?
Even common people.
Of course, common people were living on the higher points, like closer to the exits or
on these poor areas that were considered at that time poor areas, while the noble ones,
but these noble families became noble because of the money.
Of course, they were all merchants, sailors, they had their wealth like that.
They earned their wealth.
They lived closer to Main Street and in these bigger palaces.
That also they were building the summer houses outside of the city, but both poor people and
wealthy people lived in the same place.
So everyone was being protected then?
Yes, yes, yes.
Only this countryside area, although they didn't have a walled city, they did have a few fortifications
in the countryside from where the government of Dubrovnik, they would send some noblemen
there that had to keep that area secured for six months to one year.
So every six months or every year they were changing the governor of that area and they
had these fortifications.
So in the case of war or some attacks, people could hide in because the number of people
that lived in this area at that time was not enormous.
So that's why these fortifications could be a fuse.
Today of course it's a little bit different.
Is that the area known as Ploče?
Conale, no.
You mean?
Up in the hills or no?
You mean outside of Dubrovnik?
Yeah, yeah, outside of the walls.
Outside of the walls you had just few summer houses.
So all these fortifications on the walls, majority of the people when the war happened
in Dubrovnik would hide inside of these fortifications or inside the old town.
Conale area, the countryside area had its own fortifications, monasteries with towers
and forts where local people could hide.
Oh, yeah, what's the fort called?
Sokol, falcon fortress.
That's right, yeah, actually I was there.
Yeah, I know.
And that falcon, sorry, Sokol fortress or falcon fortress was built to protect the line between
Ottoman Empire because behind that hill was already Ottoman Empire.
And this is where the Ottomans every Saturday would come to trade with Dubrovnik local
people in that area near the fortress.
And from that fortress they could see whole Conale region and like that they were controlling.
They knew if something would happen.
So that fortress for me built on the rocks, it's amazing.
It was a small city, so it's amazing.
Well, it sounds like they really had their diplomacy and negotiating down.
Yes, Dubrovnik in 16th century had around 50 consulates all around the world.
Wow.
Yeah, including India, Goa.
In India and in Goa we have Saint Blaise church.
Really?
Our patron saint, yeah.
I didn't know that.
That's all the way back from the 15th century?
Yes.
Wow, very cool.
Yeah.
They were great, they were quite intelligent and that's what amazes me a lot and that's
why I'm really grateful to live here, to be part of this region and to have this opportunity
to pass all this knowledge and I can say my love towards the city to our guests that
are visiting the city.
Yeah, I mean, you're a great tour guide.
I know at least once.
I think two times you've, I don't know if we've been on the walls twice, but...
No, we've been on the walls once and then in the city.
Oh, that's right.
What are some of the, actually I wanted to get back to one point you made, I forgot,
when you mentioned that they let the French army in.
I'd never heard about that.
I wanted to ask what happened after that.
So Marshal Marmont and his troops entered the city.
They used the legends that that was a trick.
So they said like, okay, we're gonna enter the city, just pass through the city and go
on the other side so we don't have to go all the way around and we're gonna leave the next
day.
But of course, when they entered in, they just stayed for five years, which meant that Napoleon
on in January 1809, abolished the Republic of the Bronnick.
So the Republic of the Bronnick no longer existed as a free or city state or free country
or free city.
And it was just joined to the rest of Croatia.
It was blend with the rest of Croatian coast and the center up there, north of the eastern
area.
Ah, by the French though.
By the French.
Yeah.
I never knew that.
Yeah, yeah.
Interesting.
Okay.
So you're going to enter the city in two years here and after that, Austrian-Gerion government.
Ah, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
I wanted to ask you about, you know, I mentioned how we walked in the old city there.
What are some of the old buildings that are there of note that you talk about on your tours?
Well, I can just point or tell the most important ones.
For example, when we immediately enter in the city, there's a big fountain, round fountain
in the city.
That's one of the most important monuments in the city because the Bronnick, like I said,
was built on the rocks, so they didn't have their own water.
They didn't have any cisterns or aqueduct or spring of natural water inside the old
town.
So it was really awful to live in the city during the summertime, especially during the
sieges.
If the Bronnick was attacked, the gates would be closed.
No one could exit or enter in the city.
So they needed food and water for people who lived in the city.
So they decided to build the aqueduct.
The aqueduct was built by Italian architect, Nofria da Acava, that's 12 kilometers long.
So it's bringing the water from the mountain to the city of the Bronnick.
And it's using just gravity.
So in the past, they used just gravity to bring that water from the mountain to the
city.
And that was the most amazing thing ever.
And then they left a small part of the roof open.
So in the case someone cuts off the sorts of water from the mountain, the rain can fall
and like that they can have rain water.
And the system was a centrifugal system, which means that was never still.
So it was always moving and it means that was never full of diseases.
When there's a still water, it can get bad.
So that never happened with this one.
So for me, that's amazing.
And it's still functioning.
Yeah, people still drink from it?
Yes, yes.
The water from in the Bronnick is completely safe to drink.
So during the summertime, that's the best thing ever.
When you enter in the city and it's hot, so hot, you just go in that fountain and like,
and it's water is so fresh and cold that it's amazing.
Oh, yeah, that's so refreshing.
I know it gets so hot there in the old part with all the stones.
Stones, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's really white, bright stone.
So it's really, really hot.
And I would say Franciscan monastery with its pharmacy, one of the oldest pharmacies
in the world, it was opened in the Bronnick in 14th century, 1317.
And it's still functioning.
That's the most important thing that that pharmacy from 14th century until today never
was never closed.
I never stopped working.
So you can still go and get medicine there?
Medicine, yes.
Of course, today it's modern medicine, but it's the past.
Yeah, but yes, they're still producing their local moisturizing creams, hand lotions, body
lotions and stuff like that using the herbs from their garden.
So that's the, they're still producing something like Franciscans, but now the pharmacy, of
course, it's a big company.
So you can use, you can buy any medicine that you need, but those that are there are producing
our moisturizing cream solutions and stuff like that.
And this sort of off topic here, but are a lot of the people, like the families that
we're living for a long time in Dubrovnik still living there and still, like for example,
you know, running the same shops or living in the same homes that they've been for generations?
Yes, not all of them because majority of them or rent outside of the old town since it's
quite, it's really quite difficult to live inside the old town because there's no lot
of transport.
For example, there's no lot of grocery shops.
Everything is so expensive, double, triple.
It's mainly tourist areas, so it gets crowded over the summertime during the wintertime.
When we have a lot of rain, you have cascades, waterfalls down the whole city because it's
all in steps.
So there's more than 5000 steps inside the old town.
So there's a lot of floods that are happening if it's pouring rain like today.
So it's difficult, but for those people who are still here, they stayed here because they
love it.
They love the city itself.
They love the way of living here, so they are still living in the same buildings.
Majority of them didn't even renovate these apartments because it's quite expensive and
hard to renovate anything, especially when UNESCO protected Dubrovnik from 1979.
Dubrovnik was protected as a World Heritage, so now you have to file all this paperwork
before you do any renovation or change something inside of your apartment.
To bring the furniture in the apartment is also difficult because the doors and windows
are quite small.
So all that is complicated, but still a lot of people live here.
Not too much, around 800 people during the whole year, while maybe during the winter
time you have 1,200 people that live here.
The number is changing because of the tourism, of course, because the majority of people
would like to rent these apartments to tourists, earn a lot of money, it's easy money, and
they can live normally.
We can say because Dubrovnik is quite expensive.
But you still have, for example, small shops, especially jewelry shops, these old jewelry
shops, those are generations and generations of goldsmiths from Dubrovnik that were here.
Or all these small shops that are not some franchise.
All these unique small shops are mainly from generations to generations of people who were
here or worked here or had shops here.
That's pretty cool that those have been kept within the generations.
It's less and less every year, unfortunately, but I think especially with this COVID situation,
corona situation, slowly they started to bring that back again.
Especially for local people who live inside the city, because sometimes the government
forgets that the city is not just for tourists, it's not just the city that people visit,
it's also the city where people live.
That's why they're trying to bring all these things that local people need inside the old
town too.
I wanted to ask, what is life like outside of the summer season when there's not so many
tourists?
Come and see.
Well, these two years was quite difficult because it was more that than usual because
of the COVID situation.
So we didn't have any festivals or a lot of theater performances or stuff like that or
concerts.
But it's quite quiet.
And there's no lot of things to do, unfortunately.
Majority of the restaurants and cafes are closed, especially inside the old town.
Yet the problem is that majority of them have the outside seatings, not just inside or inside
that you have just few tables.
So majority of the restaurants closed during the winter time.
Then it's cold because there's a lot of wind, then there's a lot of rain.
So even if they want to open, they cannot have outdoor seating.
We have some movies, theater, maybe sometimes some concerts, but that's it.
It's quite completely opposite from the summertime.
When it's overcrowded into alive, the promenade goes back to its winter sleep.
We can say it's like a bear.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like there's a...
It wakes up in the spring.
It sounds like there's a little bit of a sweet spot, right?
I guess at the end of the summer and before the winter hits where it's just the right
amount of people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yes, yes.
You know, it's 2019 was crazy.
I always said that I would never like that year happens again because all those people
who visited Dubrovnik during the summertime of 2019, I think they said never again because
it was overcrowded.
Overcrowded.
It was overcrowded for me that I'm used to these crowds.
So you can imagine how crowded it was.
And yet people who come to visit Dubrovnik in that time, if they're not just planning
to go to the beach or enjoy the sea, if you want to see architecture or enjoy the city,
you cannot do that because it's overcrowded.
So I prefer less number, like less population or less tourists, but high quality.
So I think the perfect time to visit Croatia would be May, June.
It's crowded but not overcrowded and it's not too hot.
July and August are mainly where people come for their vacation holidays and this is where
a majority of people come for their summer.
And then September.
I love September, not just because it's my birthday then, but also because September
is like it's really hot but not too hot.
And yet the nights are a little bit colder or cooler and the temperature of the sea is
perfect.
Less people who want to go to take a swim.
So the beaches are not empty but not overcrowded.
The temperature of the sea is amazing and then I'm swimming till mid of October.
Wow, really?
That leaves me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's still really, really nice weather.
It's not too cold.
There's no rain.
No, no, no.
It's perfect because actually outside it's so hot that the water, its balances.
It's really great.
But you know, there's a lot of people who love crowds and love 40 degrees and stuff
like that.
So come and visit during July and August.
Yeah.
Google, not regret.
Well, what are you expecting for this summer?
Well, they said that the expectations are quite high, that it will be quite crowded.
Almost to the 2019 levels or no?
Yes, yes.
They say that but we'll see.
It can change easily and maybe the newspaper is always adding something to, you know, they
are always increasing the numbers and stuff like that but they said it's gonna be as good
as 2019.
So we will see.
Wow, that's crazy.
I would love, let's say, I would love that it's like maybe 70% of 2019.
That's completely okay.
That's your ideal number.
Yeah.
You know, just so people who come, they can enjoy in, enjoy really the city and not yell
to, oh, it's overcrowded.
I hate this.
I have to wait in the queue for 45 minutes to get my dinner.
Yeah, you don't want people to hate it just because I mean.
There's a lot of people, it's not hitting the city, that's just, you know, the problem
with the crowd.
That's just the situation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The same thing with Venice, Barcelona, all these popular cities around the globe.
The only problem that is, is that Dubrovnik is one, 50 times smaller than those cities.
It's just one quarter of Venice, I can say.
Wow.
It's funny.
Yeah.
So, are you doing the Game of Thrones tours this summer?
Well, I'm doing all kinds of tours, so Game of Thrones is also one of them.
Now you have a lot of Game of Thrones tours all around.
I don't know what, for now, I don't have specific tours like, okay, this is just Game
of Thrones tour.
So if I have private tours then, if there are some fans of Game of Thrones, I always
mention something, but there's a lot of people, now less than in the past, there are people
who would like just to do Game of Thrones, to see where they film, what they filmed and
stuff like that.
Yeah.
And you try to incorporate that sometimes in your regular tours?
Yeah, I always do.
Even when I'm doing Game of Thrones tour, I love to compare Dubrovnik and King's Landing
in the Game of Thrones, because it was similar.
The whole idea of King's Landing and the policy of Dubrovnik was similar, so I like to make
some, I like to compare things with Dubrovnik's Republic and some situations that happened
in the show and stuff like that, so it's fun.
Yeah.
And I'm always having photos that I'm showing to people, so.
Well, yeah, that helps you better understand too when you can relate it to something like
that.
Yeah, and I think it's also that, and I think it's pretty to come to Dubrovnik and not have
just a small part of Dubrovnik's history.
The most important things, not a lot, but just some small things, and just so you can
remember, it's like, oh, this is a Game of Thrones, but she also said this and that,
you know, so I'm trying to actually read the vibe of the group and see what they're willing
to hear.
And the majority of them, when we start to Game of Thrones, they said, oh, can we get
some history?
Yeah, they still want some part of that.
Yeah.
Well, your sister was in an episode of Game of Thrones, right?
Yes, yes, my sister was.
How did that happen?
Well, it was crazy because when people heard that HBO Game of Thrones show is coming to
the city, everyone, especially those fans who read books, they went crazy.
They were like, oh my God.
So there were lines for audition and it was quite difficult to get in.
First, so that was season two, and they had just 300 extras for season two.
And then season three, four, five, of course, more and more, but for first season that was
filmed here in Dubrovnik season two, that was really a big deal.
My sister, she wanted to try it and she said, okay, I'm going to apply and see and she's
a beauty.
So they accepted her as a noble girl or someone.
She was in the scene with Khaleesi on the island of Karth when they prepared like a
welcome party for her.
That was filmed on the island of Lokron here in front of Dubrovnik.
My sister never watched an episode, never read any word from the books, and she did not
have a clue who those actors were, what they are doing and what's happening.
She just knew it's some TV show that is really popular.
And she got in and you can see her in some of the scenes, especially those scenes when
Khaleesi is there.
And you can see my sister behind Emily's left shoulder and she's acting and she's
like, imagine that she's there and in her head, she's like, oh, I'm on the film set
and she doesn't even know who those actors are.
It's so funny.
She doesn't realize the magnitude of it.
No, no, no.
And there were people that were so jealous because I have colleagues and I have friends
in mind that wanted to be part of it and they never got in and imagine them like, I'm not
there and I'm a fan.
I know everything.
So I'm always laughing because of that.
And she didn't even know that she's in the show.
I've told her, I was like, you were in the show.
I saw you, you were in the show.
And she was like, really?
Where?
When?
And then I sent her these clips and she was like, oh my God, I'm in.
I'm in.
I was like, you didn't even watch yourself?
And that was like four years after.
Wow.
Not at that time.
Yeah, yeah.
She said, oh, I'm in.
She's so funny.
She didn't even care to look.
No, no, no.
She didn't even apply for the next season.
She said, it's too tiring.
It really was because they had to get up at 4 a.m. and they were finishing at 7 p.m.
It was all day.
It was a long day.
And they were paying them just like 30 euros, which is nothing.
Wow, that's it for the whole day?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It was not, extras are always there because they love the show, nothing else.
Yeah, they want to be part of it.
That's what's funny about it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's why.
Now, Zarenka, you're also doing, you told me about this a few weeks ago when I saw you
and I forgot exactly what it was, but for National Geographic, you're taking them around
as they're, what are they doing, like a special or taking a bunch of pictures?
Yeah, oh well.
They're different tours.
So for this Limblad Expeditions that are having like doing these tours together with National
Geographic, they have these specifically created tours for people that are visiting to experience
Croatia, the best of Croatia.
So either we are going by the land, so we're visiting the main points, the Romney, Split,
some neighborhoods, the countries around, having this traditional food.
They are, we are showing them some specific parts of people's life, you know, if they're
making something, how they did this, how they're cooking that, some experiences that they would
never find somewhere else or in regular tours.
And we are sailing around Croatian coast also, we are visiting the islands, the most important
points, and we always have first day on tour, we have like a presentation, I talk about
Croatia, and every day we have different presentations or lessons that we are passing, learning a
little bit about the language or culture or history.
So there's always something.
It's not a typical tour, like two hours and that's it, we have few, few extra things.
It's quite fun.
So it sounds like they really want an in-depth look at the culture and everything.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And I'm there, especially on the boat, I'm there with them as a local, if they want to
know something in any time of the day, they want to know something more about our history
or some parts of the history or tradition or I don't know, literature, you know, I'm
there for them and we're talking about that, so it's quite fun.
That's really cool.
And they're always trying like local food, local wines, so it's a full experience on
local things.
That sounds like a great job for them too, they just get to try all the food and drinks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of course they have a...
Sorry, go ahead.
Sorry, of course they have a professional photographer who's with them and taking photos
of them on these tours and picturing all and capturing all these moments.
And then they'll publish that in their magazine or what?
Yes, website, magazine, whatever.
I really, I didn't get any copy of those.
So if you find some photos of mine, please tell me.
And when is that taking place?
Those are mainly I have mainly now, July, August.
That's just because we are doing the coastal area too, we are sailing, so that's why.
And I have, sorry, I have September, main September, so August, September, so I was
lying August, September.
But aside from Dubrovnik, you're also, I guess not with them, but on other tours you
go into what Mostar, right?
And Split too or no?
Yes, yes, one day excursions to Mostar or Montenegro, so Bosnia-Henskovena and Montenegro.
And sometimes I do like, they are rare one day tours or trips to Split.
There's always, or I'm doing transport from Dubrovnik to Split or from Split to Dubrovnik.
And also I do these tours.
This year I'm gonna have more tours for like 10 days with the group or just a couple around
Croatia.
Wow, so you're gonna be really busy this summer.
Yes, and I love that.
That's the best part about being tour guide because I'm traveling.
I love to travel, meeting new places.
And Croatia is really beautiful.
It has a lot of things to see, so I think that's the best way of getting to Croatia to come
here and explore a little bit of everything.
Because we have from mountains to sea, sandy beaches, rocky beaches, flat area, high area,
you know, it's something completely different.
So whatever one country, big country can have all that, like from one side to another, Croatia
is so small, but we have like, it's like we have four countries in one country.
You know, we have small places, big towns, the flat area.
It's amazing.
I love it.
Yeah, there's so much to see.
You can't just go to one city and, you know, call it a day.
In Croatia, no, because there's more.
For example, you're in Zagreb now.
You know that Zagreb is like typical Austrian, German architecture, gray, foggy area, flat
area.
And then you pass to the Dalmatian coast.
It's sunny, sea, Dalmatian typical medieval architecture, so it's completely different.
Well, before I forget, Zrejka, if people want to reach out to you about tours, you know,
this summer, where should they go?
And I'll put links to later on.
I'm such a lazy person.
I don't have my website now.
It's still in progress.
So why you're making a website?
Yeah, I'm making a website.
So it's easier to connect with me or contact me.
I have a mail address or a Facebook page or Instagram page.
Those are the channels I have.
Okay.
And maybe I'll have to wait then to release the episode until you have the website up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's pretty cool.
I didn't know you were doing that.
Yeah, because I figured out, okay, maybe that will be some sort of maybe blog just for people
if I'm still thinking about languages.
Should I put all three or just English?
But I'm going to see that and figure out.
But it's something that you should do.
It's a amateur guide and I love it.
But not just because of the business.
I just want to, if people, when they are searching, want to find some informations that are in
one place, because of course, Internet, you can find a lot of information.
But from a local side, we can say, I think that's a good idea to have some site where
you can go and say, oh, she recommends this, not because someone paid me, but just because
I think as a local, this is better than something else.
Yeah, I think that would be a huge hit.
I mean, even I look for things like that.
I guess only a year is not that long, but it feels like a long time that I've been able
to be in Croatia.
Yeah, I'm still looking for things that aren't just tourist traps and I want to see what
the locals are doing and things like that.
That's the problem with the Bromnik because the majority of the things in the Bromnik
can't be out of tourist area because the Bromnik is so small that everything is tourist area.
Even those tourists who don't want to be tourists are tourists because they are looking for non-tourist
things, if you get me.
Yeah.
So, there's a lot of people who don't want to be, I don't know, inside your hotel, they
want to go to some bar that is not that low, that is not that touristy, but yet if you
have 20 people like that, that bar will already become tourist bar.
Yeah, that is so.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So, it's funny, but that's the Bromnik.
But I think it's whenever you want to, that's why, for example, winter area or winter time,
it's perfect time to visit Bromnik because then you can see where the locals are and
what they are doing and you can feel that vibe.
It's lazy vibe, but it's still a vibe, so.
Yeah.
Well, what are you doing, Zarenka, outside of the season during the winter?
I do a lot of things.
I'm a person that almost never, I love sleeping, but I sleep a lot, but still, I'm always doing
something.
Well, these two years since I was almost off work, I took that to concentrate on my passions
and my passions are yoga, dance, and psychology.
So this year, I'm gonna be also, I'm almost finishing my yoga certificate, so in September,
fingers crossed, I will be yoga teacher, finally.
And I'm doing dance classes, so I'm dancing in one studio, and now I'm studying psychology,
actually, so I do a lot of things.
I'm doing some energy treatments also, so a lot of things.
I'm tutoring.
A little bit of everything.
Yeah.
And you just told me before we started recording about the psychotherapy, do you want to talk
a little about that?
Psychology and psychotherapy for me are the amazing sources and amazing things.
I think everyone should do some kind of psychotherapy just because I think people, especially nowadays,
are bombed with a lot of things and the emotions and everything that they are feeling.
It's really hard to process.
And just to work and to work on yourself and get to know yourself, I think psychology and
psychotherapy are great tools to do that.
So this year, I got in this education for Gestalt psychotherapy, and now I'm doing my
education for next four years.
So I'm hoping to get these approaches on psychotherapy that are modern and that are interesting
to other people.
So it won't be a huge, like, oh, she's doing psychotherapy.
It's like, okay, that's completely great thing and normal thing, so just go for it.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
I love it.
And it's really cool when you get to know the brain and how it's functioning and how
your body is functioning, how these emotions and traumas that you have are what they are
doing to you and your body and how you're fighting against them or with them.
Oh, it's amazing.
I mean, I love it.
With it.
So it seems like a lot of that ties into yoga and even dance.
So that makes sense why you're interested in those as well.
Yes, yes, that's true.
Because when you see, well, now I'm seeing people when they're walking down, I can see
the burdens that or that they're holding, you know, or they're having, you can see that
people if they have their shoulders like really tight or if they walk differently or they
are walking too proud, all of that shows these or traumas or emotions or something that they
have held in it or locked in themselves.
It's amazing.
I love it.
Oh, I forgot what I was going to say.
Okay.
Sorry.
No, no, no, I was, I was thinking about that and I was getting lost in my own thinking,
wow, what burdens am I carrying?
Oh, sorry.
Oh, are we starting psychotherapy?
Yeah, I think I just had my first session.
Free of charge.
Okay.
For the first time, it's free of charge.
First one's free.
But no, Zrenka, I really, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast here.
You gave a lot of great information.
I think we're coming down towards the end here and I just wanted to ask for your first
local recommendation.
Maybe it's going to go later on the blog and the website, but just two things.
I won't ask too much, but your favorite beach in or around Dubrovnik and the best restaurant
to go to if you were to visit for the first time.
That's a tough choice because, okay, you have to tell me, fish restaurant, meat restaurant,
vege restaurant.
True.
Yeah.
Just put it all into one.
Okay.
Say if you've never been to Croatia and you want like an authentic Dubrovnik restaurant
experience.
Okay.
Then for sure, I would like, if you're in the Dubrovnik area, you should go to this like
Proto.
For me, Proto is one of the best fish restaurants because when you're in Dubrovnik, you have
to eat fish and seafood, especially in the summertime, especially oysters.
If you miss oysters, if you don't eat oysters in Dubrovnik, you made a huge mistake since
we have the best oyster in the world.
One price in London for the best oyster in the world, flat European oyster that is quite
rare to find and they are here from Roman time.
So that's number one.
Yeah.
When in Croatia, when in Dubrovnik, eat oysters.
Actually, I've never eaten an oyster in any of Croatia, so I must be doing something
wrong.
I'm going to try that next time.
Yeah.
This summer when you get down, well, we're going to do these things.
Okay.
Local things.
So, for me, the best fish restaurant is Proto.
If you're willing to have this, again, modern approach to the local cuisine, then I will
recommend Luz in Kantoon, the Lucy's Corner restaurant inside the Old Town.
But for peka, the meat and these traditional dishes of Dubrovnik, I would go in Konavle.
To go in Konavle, Konavoski Dvori restaurant near the River Lyuta in Konavle area.
Sorry, veal under the iron bell.
That's a traditional meal.
Delicious.
And that's if you love meat and you want to try typical dish, that's it.
That's it.
Veal under the iron bell in Konavle.
Okay.
I'm going to have to write these down.
My mom will make it for you, don't worry.
And that's what we are eating.
So, and those are really, that's delicious meat that is under slowly put, not cooked,
but like it's like in an oven, slowly, slowly cooked for five to six hours.
It's delicious.
It melts in your mouth.
Although I'm not eating meat anymore, but still, when I'm talking about it, it reminds
me like, oh, it's so good.
But beaches, I have two beaches that I love.
One is outside the Bronning, that's the island of Lokrum.
You cannot get enough of that beauty.
It's a small island, but yet big enough to avoid crowds.
It has everything.
Rocks, terraces, grass for children, for elderly, restaurant, you know, everything.
If you want to hike, you can go hike private beach or to be a little bit isolated or with
bunch of people, amazing.
And Danche beach.
It's near the old town, maybe five minutes walking distance from the old town.
It's under the old monastery where today is nunnery and it's beautiful.
The sunset from there, it's amazing.
It's called Danche, D-A-N-C-H-E, Danche beach.
I love it.
I love it, love, love it.
So those are the beaches that I love.
There are more beaches, of course, but depends on the mood and everything that you're looking
for.
I don't like sandy beaches because sand for me, I'm not fun of it.
But if you like sandy beaches, there are a few in the Bronning, but be careful in the
Bronning you have to get down or get up a lot of steps to go on these beaches.
You cannot avoid exercising in the Bronning, that's the only thing.
That's good, especially if you're going to all those restaurants that you just mentioned.
That's why we are eating a lot, but we are walking a lot.
We are going up and down steps, that's why we are always fit.
All right, Zarenko, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast with me.
Always a pleasure to talk to you and I'll have to see you this summer.
No, thank you very much for inviting me and having this conversation with me.
So it was my pleasure.
That's it for today's episode of the All Things Croatia podcast.
Thanks for tuning in and I hope you all enjoyed it.
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Thanks again and vide mosten.