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Welcome back to a new episode of the All Things Croatia podcast.
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I'm your host, Stanko Zovak.
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Born and raised in Los Angeles, I'm now living in Zagreb and studying the Croatian language.
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Before we start, just do me a favor and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're
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listening, as well as the Facebook and Instagram page.
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In this series, I'll be talking with people both in the homeland and around the globe who
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have connections to Croatia.
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We'll hear from startups, returning to Aspora, musicians and athletes, and the biggest Croatian
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celebrities at what returned my calls.
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But enough about me.
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I'm the Modalje and let's get started.
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All right, everybody.
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Welcome back to the podcast.
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Today our special guests are Matej Pavkovic and John Gasparovic.
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They're president and vice president of the organization Krodi Aspora.
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Now Krodi Aspora is a nonprofit organization that's run by Croats passionate about improving
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Croatia through economic solutions and assisting those abroad with their challenges in doing
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business and returning to Croatia.
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And a little more specifically, they run webinars, organize events, and develop resources to
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help Croats around the world do more business and ultimately return to Croatia.
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So today we're going to hear a little bit more about Krodi Aspora and how they can help.
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Thanks for coming on the podcast, guys.
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Thanks.
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Yeah, of course.
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So I want to start just, if you guys can give us a little background about yourselves,
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introduce yourselves in terms of your connection to Croatia as well.
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So John, would you like to start?
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Sure, I guess.
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Age before beauty, right?
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So yeah, I'm actually, I've been in Croatia since 1997.
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I'm originally from Vancouver, Canada, both my parents are Croatian and I was so second,
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first generation born in Canada.
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And I moved out here in 1997 to help start the Price Waterhouse offices.
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Yeah, there was two of us on board at the time and announced 25 years later, we're 240
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people.
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I'm the managing partner here.
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I will say that I did spend two and a half years in Moscow from 2004 to 2006, but I came
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with PWC and then returned here, right?
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And so my connection is very strong in terms of it was business related.
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Yeah, I love the country, but I never had a plan to come here, live my life here.
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I just thought I was going to come for a couple of years.
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So that's kind of it for now.
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We can touch on more later, I guess.
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Go ahead Mat.
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So also like John, like one of my parents is Croatian, that is from Herzegovina originally,
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but my mom's actually American.
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I came back about five years ago.
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I decided to do my MBA at the Sarger School of Accountancy Management.
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I lived a little bit in France, came back to Croatia, worked various different jobs,
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and then we started CRODIASP, but a couple of years ago.
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And we started it before the pandemic, but then unfortunately the pandemic made us pivot
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to doing mostly everything online.
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You're trying to organize a conference, but yeah, so my background is I'm half Croatian,
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but same thing, like I grew up in the Croatian community in Canada, and I was always passionate
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about Croatia, I always wanted to come back, so this is a dream come true.
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Well, that's one of the next questions I wanted to ask, you know, were you guys involved in
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the Croatian community going up?
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So maybe if you can elaborate a little more on that, you know, what's the community like
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over there?
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Sure.
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Yeah, I was of course very involved.
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I grew up in the community of Vancouver from going to church Sundays and Saturdays.
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We had Croatian school to playing soccer for the Vancouver Croatia Soccer Club and
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being involved there and all the functions that come around that and around the Croatian
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domes.
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So, you know, I feel like I still feel today like I'm still a, you know, a member of that
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community and definitely feel welcome whenever I go back there.
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So that's kind of how it was for me from my side at a time when Croatia was not yet recognized
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as a country.
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So that was, you know, I'm a bit older, quite a bit older than Matas, so I grew up in the
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70s and 80s in Vancouver and that was a little bit different than, you know, people who've
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grown up with having Croatia recognized as a full-fledged country.
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And it was very interesting, a lot of fun and would not change that experience or anything.
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Yeah, I agree with John growing up in the Croatian community.
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Well, it was probably even more passionate before Croatia was recognized and when, but
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I was growing up in the Croatian community in Toronto after 1995.
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So like a lot of people are very passionate about folk word and playing soccer.
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That was always a pinnacle.
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It's usually like in the summer you play soccer and then during the winter you dance called
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localitambora.
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So I was very involved in the Croatian community up in Norval.
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That's where all the, you know, the Bolsanti and Herzegovci used to go.
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And yeah, same thing.
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When I go back to Canada, I'm very, I always say that I was very fortunate to grow up in
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the Canadian Croatian community because I feel that we were very connected to Croatia,
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especially in Toronto, being able to come to Croatia every summer and having direct
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flights from Toronto.
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And you know, I just felt that there was always a lot of really great activities.
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We always brought over either Croatian bands or we brought over, you know, full-course
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specialists like Sinisa Leopold and Iván Csán from Lado.
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So we were, we had a very thriving community in Toronto and I was very fortunate to grow
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up there.
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Yeah, I'm sure both those Vancouver and Toronto, I think that there's both really big populations
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of Croatians over there.
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And correct me if I'm wrong.
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Yes.
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Definitely.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it's definitely cool to grow up in that community and you know, be able to have
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that cultural identity, you know, so far from Croatia.
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So that's obviously cool and I'm sure that's shaped your guys' thinking and then eventually
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led into, you know, what is now Croatia.
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And I want to get into that now.
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How exactly did that start?
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Who started that?
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What was the idea?
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What was the formation of thinking before that?
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So originally a couple of years ago, we wanted to organize a conference on Brač.
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And you know, then I approached John and I asked them maybe for some support from PWC
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and maybe we can get some really good speakers to talk at the conference.
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Then unfortunately, like everything in 2020, everything, he had to pivot from in-person
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to something online.
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And for the first couple of months, we, you know, canceled our plans to have our conference
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on Brač.
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It was supposed to be in May 2020.
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Then we pivoted to webinars and we started talking about people.
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We're really interested about, you know, the tax system in Croatia, how business works
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in Croatia, what is, you know, some advantageous avenues to come back to Croatia.
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And we, you know, saw a lot of success in that and we continued actually over the summer
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that we made a non-profit, Krodi Aspera.
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And then in the fall, we created the Krodi Aspera online summit.
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So we were pretty successful with that.
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We wrote many articles and then we started doing policy papers towards the government
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when they came out with their 10-year government plan.
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And we had a lot of success and even in June 2020, before we became a non-profit, we, you
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know, lobbied the Canadian governments to make sure that Croatians would, you know,
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have their right to vote.
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So we had various different examples and it just kind of led us to what we're doing today.
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And that original conference on Brac, what organization was that for or what was that
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part of?
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So it was for Krodi Aspera and we weren't a non-profit then, but we were going to organize
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it as the Krodi Aspera summit.
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And instead of having the Krodi Aspera summit, then we decided to become the Krodi Aspera
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non-profit and we started to do things online, online webinars, and then we eventually had
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our summit.
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And then eventually it just turned into policy papers, writing articles, you know, promoting,
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returning to Croatia and promoting business in Croatia.
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And then where did that start?
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The conference on Brac, you know, where did you get the idea to start that?
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Where you getting people, you know, you just saw a huge interest in people asking all these
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questions and said, hey, let's throw something together and, you know, that people can listen
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to and get help?
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Originally, I just see that Croatians around the world, they're very successful in every
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position that they kind of are given.
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So personally, I've noticed living in the Canadian community in Canada that like the
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biggest bank in Canada, for example, the CEO is Victor Vandik, very successful in Croatia.
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You know, the biggest bank in Argentina, once again, CEO, president, Zarec, you know,
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and he had a lot of Croatians that are very, like in big positions around the world.
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And I think that that knowledge is valuable.
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And personally, I kind of think of places like Israel where they've used their Diaspora
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to really make a prosperous country.
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And I think, why can't Croatia do the exact same thing?
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And that's where the whole idea of creating a conference where these people in high positions
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can share their knowledge and share their perspective on Croatia.
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And I think that, John, you have something maybe to add.
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Yeah, I mean, you know, I would go back even, Matt, if you recall, 2019, when there was
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a conference in Split, and you were a big part of that.
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And I was a moderator in that.
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And, you know, that was kind of an idea there.
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But we saw, I think from that point, there was a lot more potential.
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I knew it also later that year, I went to the ACAP, American Croatian Association of
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Professionals Conference in Cleveland.
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And Matti, you're also there, of course, where you kind of felt the huge number of people,
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business people, and not just people who are in big positions in big organizations, but
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people who had their own businesses that they were running and were, you know, could do
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a lot of things and this appetite to interact and connect with Croatia.
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And so, you know, when you take that into account, then, and when we were trying to set
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up the conference in Baranac, that never happened because of COVID, you know, a lot of the guests
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and people we had planned to have on panels were people just like that, that were, you
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know, based in the States or based in Canada and had fantastic ideas on how to work with
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Croatia from even, you know, sending, having training people in, from Croatia in the States
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and bring them back to Croatia and using them as a service center for instance.
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These types of ideas were what, you know, really gave you juices following and started
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thinking about the possibilities, right?
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And so these interactions with other conferences that were, you know, aimed a lot more at business,
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let's say, but still with Croatia top of mind.
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I think this won't inspire us, but just kind of let us to the conclusion we can do way
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more and we're based here.
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Right.
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So let's, let's move forward with this and interact with as many of these organizations
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as we can to, to create a platform that could be global for all Croatians, diaspora anywhere.
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In addition, everybody who's not even got into Croatia, but wants to do something with
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Croatia as well.
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And so, you know, keeping it wide open.
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Yeah.
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And I think, I mean, I think the diaspora from what I know in Los Angeles, at least,
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you know, just cause that's a community that I'm familiar with.
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I mean, they're so entrepreneurial.
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Yeah.
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I mean, so many of them have their own, you know, businesses and are running, you know,
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construction or flooring or, you know, I know in San Pedro, there's a lot of coastal businesses
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over there.
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And so I think just Croatians in general are very, you know, like business oriented,
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entrepreneurial, always starting things and, you know, I feel like I always have ideas
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like, oh, this would be so cool.
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Like in Croatia, the startup, this business or the startup, this business.
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And I feel like I'm always coming up with these ideas.
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And on that note, I mean, when did you guys sort of make the pivot from, because you're
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talking about how these conferences were more business oriented?
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When did you sort of make a pivot with Crow the Osparato also not only help with business,
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but with, you know, getting papers and documents and moving back to Croatia?
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Well, I think that at the end of the day, it always comes back to maybe John can also
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add onto this, but when you want to return to Croatia, maybe you as well as Thanko,
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you know that you need to do a lot of paperwork.
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You need to help people find a way back.
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And I think the first absolute, I think most important thing is to show people a feasible
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way back.
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So that's when we started with more of the business side.
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But also I think that one of our goals is definitely trying to show a clear path, streamlining
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citizenship and trying to show people that yes, there may be, there might be some paperwork
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or a lot of paperwork that you have to do, but at the end of the day, it's worth it.
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You know, like every country, you need to do certain amounts of paperwork, maybe Croatia
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a little bit more in some instances.
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But at the end of the day, if you have an idea, I think that we just want to show people
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the easiest path with the least amount of resistance to come back to Croatia.
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And I think that's, it all kind of stems back into if you want to open up a business, we're
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going to help you or help you connect with the best people and help you come back to
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Croatia with the least amount of resistance.
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You know, obviously from my point of view, I agree with all that fully.
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My personal sort of thought was when I was in Cleveland and just seeing the, having the
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interaction I had, because I did a 10 minute little presentation on that.
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It was a networking session and I was given 10 minutes just to speak about Croatia and
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I'm being there three hours because of the interest shown by people.
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And that's when I, you know, I just really go, my God, this is much bigger than I think,
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right?
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And, you know, and thinking about some of the stuff PWC does, you know, what we do, the
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business running here and the fact that people aren't aware that there's a lot of professionals
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here that can also help.
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And I was speaking to professionals in the States, but it's, you know, we have offices
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like, like do our competitors as well.
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We're all very well versed in what's going on here.
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And also hearing the sort of war stories of the nineties when people were getting ripped
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off, when privatization was starting to occur then.
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And, you know, there's a lot of sad stories of people losing money or coming over and
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making bad decisions and trying to say, well, listen, that's, that was then this is now,
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you know, it's 25, 30 years later.
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We need to get that record straight and we need to, you know, with the potential the
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country has despite all the misgivings of the last three decades of the different scandals
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and corruption that has occurred, in essence, we're no different than any other country
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who also have their issues very similar to the some even worse, but these do a great
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job of not speaking about it.
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You know, keeping a positive image of the country.
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And there's a very positive image that exists here.
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We need to, you know, have that voice heard and have people see that and judge for themselves,
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you know, and not let a negative media in some respects, you know, turn people away
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where there's opportunities.
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Sorry, because they're, and I see the opportunity because, you know, I'm dealing with investors
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that are not Croatian, they're coming from everywhere.
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They're very interested.
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So Croatians have money and they do have money and they want to make a profit.
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Why wouldn't they do it here?
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Just like, why wouldn't you go to school here if you could get an education that works for
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you or come and live here and do your job from here like a digital nomad?
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Like many other foreigners are doing because it's a great place to live.
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And do you think that narrative in the media has changed now?
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I feel like I see a lot of positive things now about Croatia and living.
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Yeah, I think it has, but I think a lot of it comes from foreign journalists making an
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impact and then, you know, you can't go against that as well, right?
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Because I think the US has had a lot of, you know, with the direct flights coming from
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Philadelphia and New York and LA the last couple of years, there's been a lot more
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and a lot more popular people, you know, Magic Johnson and others who showed up on the odds
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as well and saying, wow, what a country.
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You know, you cannot deny that, right?
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And yeah, so I think that's, there's been a change in the spin, right?
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Absolutely.
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I would just like to add maybe that this was before the pandemic in 2019 that there was
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so much interest at, you know, the conference that we did in Split, but also the conference
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in Cleveland, the ACAP conference.
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And I think that now, because of the pandemic, I think a lot of people reassessed what's
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important in their lives.
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And I think a lot of people are saying to themselves, if I'm working online and I'm,
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you know, working anywhere from laptop, why wouldn't I do it on the beach in Split?
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And it's true.
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A lot of these people that have now come to Croatia like Magic Johnson and some other
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celebrities has made Croatia a great popular tourist destination.
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And I think that Croatia has a huge opportunity to use that momentum and create, you know,
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a better investment environment for people to come back and to live here.
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You think you've seen a shift then since pre-COVID and now and people wanting different things,
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you know, maybe before.
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This is just what I would guess.
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You know, people were kind of wanting to come here and start businesses at the same time,
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whereas maybe now people, there's more people who are just interested in living here, but,
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you know, like being a digital nomad.
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Yeah, I have.
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And I've seen, you know, even in those past fall, there's been several hundred people
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who moved from Toronto to Croatia, one-way tickets.
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Looking at this and that's just one example, but it just, even the environment we live
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and even in the way we work right now, I really realize you can work in a hybrid environment.
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I mean, you can work from anywhere now.
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That's what I'm seeing in my firm.
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You don't have to be in the office.
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You can be home, you can be somewhere else, but you're getting the job done because digitally,
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you're able to do it.
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The infrastructure is there, the setup is there.
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And so there's nothing stopping you from completely changing the way, you know, you do things,
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right?
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You're not going to be in the industry, the industry, but, you know, a lot of service,
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professional consulting type businesses, a lot of that can be done like that.
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Not everything, but, you know, everybody has their own situation, but the opportunity's
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there.
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Yeah, I have to agree that I saw, but if you, Croatia, Canadians come back to Croatia,
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as well as people from Australia, they're also trickling in.
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Maybe that has to do with like the current events in their own countries, but also I
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think a lot of people from the very beginning of Corona were reassessing the, okay, I'm
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sitting at home and I'm on a laptop.
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Why when I come back to Croatia and, you know, start something.
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And also I think that you can't underestimate Croatia joining the European Union.
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I think a lot of people now see Croatia more than just, you know, Croatia, the Croatian
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market, but I think a lot of people also see Croatia as the European market and also European
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law and European institutions, so I think that that has also helped, you know, to the
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lead up of COVID where people are saying, baby, I can try something in Croatia.
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Yeah, that's an interesting point.
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I do want to get into those trends and talk a little about the EU.
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But before that, I want to backtrack just to specifically grow the Aspera, you know,
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and what sort of difficulties are people facing?
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Because we did talk about the difficulties in doing business in Croatia or returning
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to live there.
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And I want to ask, what are those difficulties that people are facing today?
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And then, you know, how exactly are you guys helping with that?
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I think one of the biggest difficulties that people have is, well, from the people that
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I've been talking to specifically from Canada is obtaining their citizenship.
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That is actually one of the biggest things right now where there's many, many people
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trying to apply and there's big, you know, it's basically people are waiting for months
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and months and months to just get their citizenship.
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I personally, you know, am helping a couple of people that I know get their citizenship
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because first of all, let's say if you're a Croatian citizen, but was born in Bosnia,
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for example, like in Livedo and Kibirjeg or something like that, you need to first get
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your citizenship in Bosnia or show that you are citizen in Bosnia before you get your
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citizenship in Croatia, like that your equation from Bosnia before you get your citizenship
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in Croatia.
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I think that's one of the biggest difficulties right now is kind of streamlining citizenship.
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And I'm helping people connect with lawyers here in Croatia.
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And I think that, but also I think the biggest thing is, is that people just want to be more
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informed about what's really going on in Croatia.
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And I think that showing people feasible routes on how they can come back.
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And, you know, I think John has done a fantastic job in some of our webinars showing what the
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tax the tax system is like and showing how different systems and how the way of life
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is here in Croatia.
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I think that that's very important because it gives people ideas and I think that if
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there's a will, there's always a way.
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I know how it seems like the law is so nuanced and there's so many different little parts
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of it that change depending on, you know, if your dad was born or he got his citizenship
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before the war or during the war or after the war, it's a different process and you
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need different papers.
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And you know, I'm lucky that I'm in a program right now in Zagreb where they're helping
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me with that because without that, you know, I don't know how I'd be doing that on my own.
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So yeah, that's definitely, and I'm sure there's a lot of bureaucracy as, you know,
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is kind of the stereotype over here, a lot of paperwork.
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And it's definitely something difficult that you can't really navigate yourself.
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Do you see any new laws in the last, I guess since Corona, the last what, two years that
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are sort of making that easier aside from the digital nomad?
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Well, recently, I think that they made amendments to the Croatian law to also people with that
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have grandparents or great grandparents that are Croatian.
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So obviously, I think that the government does see that there's a need for more Croatian
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citizens, especially abroad.
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And there's people that have been in countries like Argentina, Chile for many generations,
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and now they're like third, fourth generation Croatians.
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So I think that they definitely see that there's a need.
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But also I think that in the future, I think it's just only a benefit to have more citizens
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for Croatia and trying to get more of these people back from the diaspora to Croatia.
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And I think that's that should be the number one strategic goal for the country, in my
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personal opinion, is because we don't have enough people as we saw in the recent census.
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And also there's a big gap in the workforce, you know, there's a lot of people that are
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needed in the country.
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And I think that this can only benefit the government if there's more and more people
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that are able to come back to Croatia and work here and our citizens.
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I don't know, John, you mean Europe or Spain?
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That valid point, the one that I just want to say, in terms of how a lot of it makes
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it easier.
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They also brought in a lot of you may have heard of anybody starting a business coming
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from abroad.
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The Esporta, they give you 200,000 kunas to start the business.
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And there's details around that, right?
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But that's also, you know, had quite a bit of media attention in the fall last year,
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as it came out.
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And I think it just underlines the, there is an awareness and a desire to obviously bring
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people back and increase the population and also try to reverse the brain drain as well.
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I also think that that's an example that John was saying before that the negative media
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attention towards things, I think that it was received positively at first, but then
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eventually it was received negatively because it was only for citizens of the EU.
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But I do think that I do applaud the government for creating a program like that.
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But I think that definitely there is more awareness around the brain drain and people
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leaving the country.
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And I think that in the next couple of years we'll see the government's implement more
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laws for people to return.
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Maybe even amending this law for the 200,000 kunas to pertain to all people that are trying
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to come back to Croatia regardless of if they're coming from the EU or not.
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Yeah, I know there's a lot of people from outside the EU, you know, Canada, US, Australia,
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Australia in particular, New Zealand, where there's large communities that are trying
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to move back.
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So that would definitely help.
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You guys talked about, I think it was Mathe, talked about lobbying with the Canadian government.
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Do you guys lobby?
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Are you allowed, not allowed, but are you able to lobby with the Croatian government
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at all?
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I mean, I'll just, for my, you know, we don't, we're not like, if you're talking about cruelty
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us, but I guess we always could.
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At PNBC we're not lobbying, we try to work with them a bit.
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Lobbings, lobbying does exist here, that's for sure.
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And people do try, but it's not at the same level or intensity you see in Canada or the
401
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,960
US, that's for sure.
402
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:19,400
Well, technically there's no, there's no law on lobbying in Croatia, it's kind of a great
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area in the country.
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00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:27,080
Yeah, so it's trying to get meetings with people to talk about or raise issues, right?
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You do have groups such as Amcam and other chambers who also write papers to effectively
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give opinions and maybe impact the legislature, which in its own ways, a form of lobbying
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as far as I can see, right?
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You try to represent interests of certain groups with a positive intention there, right?
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So I think that's extent I've seen thus far, right?
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And otherwise it's just trying to get meetings with possible decision makers within the government,
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depending on the issue you're looking at.
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Yeah, I should have used a different word, I met that pretty loosely, just more of working
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at all with the government and being in contact with the government.
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I would say the...
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Go ahead.
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Sorry, John.
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Well, I just want to mention one thing about lobbying though, is every law that is implemented
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in Croatia needs to go for a public review.
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Meaning there's actually... it's called Esavjetavanya, so e-consulting, where you can... any citizen,
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I believe, or any organization can actually log on to that website and they can actually
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make comments about the law.
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It's one thing to make comments.
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I don't know how much the government listens to the comments, but this is one of the ways
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that you can have your voice heard about laws before they're implemented.
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And actually this was very popular the past few months, especially when the government
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had their 10-year plan and a lot of people did comment on that.
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And then there's also a couple other laws that a lot of people have raised concern about
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over that platform.
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So that's always an open platform for all people, not just specific lobbying groups.
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And people are doing this online, writing comments saying, oh, I think this and this?
431
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Or how does that work?
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Yeah, so it's just an online program.
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It's called Esavjetavanya.hjr.
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And all the new laws, you can... like let's say if you are interested in a specific field
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that the government is going to create regulation about, then you can create notifications that
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is sent to your email.
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And actually I signed up for quite a bit of that.
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And once in a while with Krodi Asperger, I've had something to pertain to the creation
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of the Asperger pertain to.
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We've also done comments for, what is it called?
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For the oil and gas industry because we have some people that are energy experts in the
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non-profit, so in Krodi Asperger's name they commented on laws pertaining to the energy
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sector in Croatia.
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So it's possible.
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If you're an organization or if you're just an individual citizen, democracy doesn't end.
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Just when you go to the ballot box, it continues by consulting and going on these platforms.
447
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It's one thing to comment.
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We don't know how much the government has specifically listened to that platform, but
449
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,240
it's always there and I think that it's important that people are involved in all democratic
450
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,240
processes.
451
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:53,240
Interesting.
452
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,120
Yeah, I didn't know of that before.
453
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,520
That's something cool to look out for.
454
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,640
Yeah, definitely if you're... if you have interest in certain industries, that sounds
455
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,800
cool that you can put notifications and when a lot pertaining to that comes up and you
456
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,000
can comment on that.
457
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:15,440
Mate, I wanted to ask you a little more about the Canadian Croatian connection.
458
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,440
I know you wanted to talk a little bit about the trends over there.
459
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,240
What sort of trends are you seeing with the Canadian Croatians?
460
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,200
Maybe I can talk more about my personal story.
461
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:32,400
My parents are actually thinking of returning to Croatia and I think that there's a lot
462
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:38,000
of Canadians and as Johnny mentioned before that there's a lot of Canadians that are trying
463
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,680
to return to Croatia maybe because of the situation that has happened over the past
464
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,720
couple months.
465
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,760
I think that a lot of Canadians, as I said, we were always very connected.
466
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,840
We have direct flights to Croatia, so there's always that main connection anyways, where
467
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,040
as for example, people in Australia, they have that connection as well.
468
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,480
The Croatia don't get me wrong, but there was a lot of Croatians in Canada that I knew
469
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,680
of that used to come over every summer and when you live further away or you don't have
470
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,160
the infrastructure, you don't have the flights that can come to the country, then you might
471
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,600
not visit it as much.
472
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,000
But I'm not saying anything like that.
473
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,760
I'm just saying that in Canada, I've personally seen quite a few of my friends that I thought
474
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,160
that would never probably come back, that they've decided to come back even if it's
475
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,280
temporarily or they're able to work from here.
476
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,680
So I think it's a really interesting story that's coming out of Canada where there's
477
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:41,560
a lot of Canadians really real assessing their lives and coming back to the country that
478
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,000
they're from from Croatia.
479
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,560
How far along are your parents?
480
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,320
I mean, are they just thinking about it?
481
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,760
Are they making efforts into doing it?
482
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,080
Where are they at right now?
483
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:58,080
Well, so I talked to my parents and they already sold their homes, so they're very interested
484
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,080
in coming back.
485
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,880
Yeah, apparently they're for sure in it.
486
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,760
John, I wanted to direct one towards you now.
487
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,800
Can you talk a little bit more about what kind of businesses you're seeing moving to
488
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:18,680
grow, maybe from a Canadian perspective or a global perspective, but what sorts of businesses
489
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,760
are you seeing now pop up?
490
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,480
What I'm seeing more now is interest from Canadian businesses and I'll just say some
491
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:34,480
have a creation flavor to them, or most of them don't and they're looking recently, the
492
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,920
bigger transactions that I've had in Canadian business have been in the IT sector, software
493
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,520
development, these type of things.
494
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,840
There's been some good things there.
495
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:49,480
There is some oil and gas that's here and in Hungary.
496
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:55,480
Very interesting that there's potentially going to be much bigger investment going forward,
497
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:01,920
but apart from that, I would say that there's interest to invest, right?
498
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,440
And so it's not so much businesses moving forward as it is people deciding to invest
499
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:12,480
and some of them are in the industry for instance tourism or hotels.
500
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:19,480
On the other side, I could say that there's real estate development generally and there's
501
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:27,480
definitely always interest on the IT developer side where people see that there's the interesting
502
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:32,920
part here is in this is what I wanted to definitely not forget to say is that creation
503
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:42,080
has a very strong IT sort of DNA in terms of the people and we produce a lot of good
504
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:47,560
engineers, computer engineers, developers.
505
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:55,120
And this is where there's opportunity and this is the future I think in this respect
506
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:03,120
in many not just for investment but for the country if we can retain this talent, this
507
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,120
would be great.
508
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:09,200
And this is where not just from Canada but generally globally there's a lot of interest
509
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,360
going into this area.
510
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:17,680
I would also say renewable energy is something that's very popular and renewable energy is
511
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,320
something that there's attraction in many ways here and that people want to set up
512
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,600
renewable energy, you know, Greenfield, they want to come in and do it, but there's others
513
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,520
who already have set it up and it's an interest for others to come in and consolidate their
514
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,840
businesses in Croatia, right?
515
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,480
So there's plenty of possibility there as far as I'm concerned.
516
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,440
And so you're saying that not only people with Croatian roots are bringing businesses
517
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,080
over here but people who had previously had no connection to Croatia are now investing
518
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,880
in Croatian businesses.
519
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
520
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,720
Shrew investors looking for opportunities.
521
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:57,880
There's no shortage of capital in the world these days to invest especially considering
522
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,360
interest rates and banks.
523
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,440
People are looking for more profitable places to place their money and they're looking
524
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:06,600
for good value, right?
525
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,720
And so this is where I think we see a lot more activity coming in.
526
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:17,200
I will see another incentive to all this is the EU funds and next generation funds that
527
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,040
are being made available now.
528
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,160
They're available over the next 6 to 7 years.
529
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:28,880
There's I think well over 20 billion euros, 24 billion euros that's going to be distributed.
530
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,280
Some of this is already starting this year and you know, this is another attraction
531
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:39,840
for many of these investors in that you can get a portion of your investment back to you.
532
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,760
In most cases, either very low interest or for nothing.
533
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,840
You get paid for it.
534
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:53,640
So this is definitely attractive for many investors in addition to the local community.
535
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:58,760
Yeah, sounds like it's becoming more and more attractive investments in Croatia.
536
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,680
I wanted to bring up, you brought up the tech industry over here and I've been hearing that
537
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:08,440
a lot lately that in Zagreb in particular and I think I heard Osiak maybe not sure about
538
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:09,440
that one.
539
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,640
Yeah, Zagreb, Osiak but also Split and Rijeka.
540
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,680
They're four different hubs and you know, the tech communities are strong.
541
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:22,280
There's some very strong tech companies here starting with Infobip which you've probably
542
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,000
heard of and Riematz, Nanobit.
543
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:33,040
You know, Riematz and Infobip are both either.
544
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,840
You know, one is already finished campus here in Zagreb.
545
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,480
Riematz is the one who's still building the plans and process.
546
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,640
So you know, the beautiful thing about those stories is that these are businesses that
547
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:51,640
have gone global or are going global and they're keeping it here.
548
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,320
You know, they're keeping the headquarters in Croatia.
549
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,320
They're keeping the talent here.
550
00:36:54,320 --> 00:37:00,080
They're bringing the talent into here and this is a much better story than somebody
551
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,640
being a startup and not getting that funding or the opinion where they could and then having
552
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:11,440
to go where the money is and leaving and their product becomes somebody else's product,
553
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,440
another product of another country, right?
554
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,440
That innovation.
555
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,360
So yeah, the tech side, the developer side is very strong in this industry because all
556
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:25,000
these businesses that I mentioned are very much to do with technology and with people's
557
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,000
innovation.
558
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,080
Yeah, and I'm sure most people don't think of that when they think of Croatia, you know,
559
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,640
an IT hub, a tech hub.
560
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:38,440
So I think that's something that's definitely changing from past stereotypes.
561
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,160
Although I do want to go into the census.
562
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,720
We mentioned the census a couple of times.
563
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:47,520
The most recent one, that was what, just a few months ago.
564
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:53,080
And as you guys know, Croatia has lost a lot of people, I think mostly due to economic
565
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,080
reasons.
566
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:59,400
A lot of the working population has gone to, I believe, Ireland and Germany are some of
567
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,240
the bigger ones.
568
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:04,280
How do you go about reversing that trend?
569
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:09,880
Well, I'll take that one first and Mati, you can talk about it too, I'm sure.
570
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:15,840
But this is what we're trying to do and there's no one answer to this.
571
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:22,640
The big picture is to create an environment that gives people hope, right?
572
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:34,080
And more jobs, greater opportunities, entrepreneurship, having bustling industries or sub-industries,
573
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:41,160
these ecosystems being set up for the startups and innovative types.
574
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:48,760
This is, to me, the only way to do this is to go towards the youth and make them more
575
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:56,160
aware of what's going on and providing the opportunities, employment opportunities.
576
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,400
That's got to be a long-term strategy.
577
00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:59,520
Nothing can be done overnight.
578
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:07,280
But my understanding thus far is the reason people leave and you've mentioned there's
579
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:08,520
economic reasons.
580
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,320
But why is there economic reasons?
581
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,040
People don't believe that it's going to be a good place to be.
582
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:15,840
They don't see it.
583
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,760
And there are certain industry segments here that are fantastic, that there is a great
584
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:20,760
future.
585
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:26,560
But you need to have starting from the top and then when I say the top comes from the
586
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,800
government, you've got to have a positive feel from them moving on throughout industry
587
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,600
and organizations.
588
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,120
The other side is obviously bringing in as much business as we can into the country,
589
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,800
which means investment, which means corporations coming in and setting up shop here.
590
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,800
And to do that, you have to make it conducive.
591
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,000
You have to be competitive.
592
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,800
So you have a, I can just speak from a PTC perspective, we have countries where they
593
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,000
set up shared service centers to do the work because it's cheaper labor.
594
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,320
But we don't necessarily want to be cheap labor here.
595
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,840
We want to sell the knowledge, the talent.
596
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,320
And we talked about IT and this is one place where, if we have more tech investment here,
597
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,760
this is one way we can have one part of the populations.
598
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:11,760
Very interesting in this.
599
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:17,840
And there's a lot of great talent that comes out of creation for them to stay here.
600
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,920
But with that, you have a bunch of other industry that also get impacted.
601
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:28,000
With tourism, you have industry that are from real estate to construction.
602
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,320
They all get impacted by how well it does.
603
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:36,920
So increasing the offer, making it a little more towards five-star as opposed to five-star.
604
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:42,080
As opposed to mass tourism creates a bigger benefit than the line.
605
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:47,440
Because in the end, how the employers pay more money towards their people.
606
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,160
And when I say that, I'm really talking about the youth who want to have a better starting
607
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,160
point.
608
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,640
You got to make the taxes and the contributions to go with this.
609
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:02,480
You've got to rationalize this and make it more competitive to other countries.
610
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,880
Because a lot of countries around us, apart from Slovenia, they're much more tax-efficient.
611
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:15,680
I agree more with John's analysis of the whole situation in Croatia.
612
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:21,280
And I just want to add how I usually think about how Croatia could possibly change.
613
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:27,200
If Croatia has different mentality towards people returning, if they thought, okay,
614
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:32,160
what can we do to make sure that people will want to stay in Croatia and return to Croatia
615
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,520
and make Croatia a very attractive country for people to return to?
616
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,240
I think that it would help, first of all, the people that are coming back.
617
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:42,840
But overall, it will help everyone's life.
618
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:47,480
And I think that Croatia, if we want to put it into perspective, Croatia has a GDP of
619
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,600
around 65 billion US dollars.
620
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:56,360
And if you want to say that Croatia is like a force 500 company, we can compare it to
621
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:04,680
Walmart that has over $570 billion in total revenue in 2021.
622
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:09,600
So I think that Croatia needs to start thinking, especially the people at the top, they need
623
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:15,600
to think like directors in a force 500 company, they need to think, okay, how can we retain
624
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,920
our employees or retain our people?
625
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:24,680
And in my personal opinion, I think that you need to think, how do we invest the money
626
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:31,160
that we're making into making the best growth, anything to make our economy grow?
627
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:36,680
And as John said, I think that the public sector, definitely in Croatia, there are a
628
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,480
lot of things that are inefficient about it.
629
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:45,240
And I think that we need to cut down on inefficiencies, we need to invest in growth.
630
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:49,680
I think that the EU funds will definitely be one of the opportunities that Croatia can
631
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,200
take advantage of to grow the economy.
632
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:59,480
But also I think that Croatia needs to really assess its inefficiencies and how to best
633
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:05,840
tackle those inefficiencies to make growth and to invest in the private sector in the
634
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:06,840
country.
635
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:12,240
Well, you just brought up the EU, speaking of the EU, I mean, they are of course beneficial
636
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:13,560
for us for Croatia.
637
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,400
They've been sending a lot of money for different projects and things.
638
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:22,840
I wanted to ask what your guys' thoughts were on the implications of transitioning to the
639
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,840
euro next year.
640
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:30,920
Do you see that as a positive or a negative or maybe a slight dip and then it'll be positive
641
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:31,920
or what?
642
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:39,320
Yeah, that's a bit of a loaded question because depending on who you speak to, depending on
643
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:47,000
perspective, you're going to get a different response.
644
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,440
From one financial perspective, you say we're going to have less foreign currency fluctuations
645
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:55,960
from a business perspective, so that's at one risk less.
646
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,800
But the other side, things will become more expensive.
647
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:05,880
We see appreciation of certain prices already being incorporated with EU-Irizon entrance
648
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,040
in mind.
649
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:12,960
And higher prices don't necessarily always mean higher wages as well.
650
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:22,320
And so there could be some disparity across the population that's put it this way with
651
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,120
the introduction of the euro.
652
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:33,080
But again, this is speculation in many ways and not necessarily truly supported logic,
653
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,000
but there's a case for this.
654
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,560
On the other hand, there's people on the other end of that who will be getting, earning
655
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,600
more money because of it from a business perspective.
656
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:49,800
If you are in euros, the thing that comes with that, let's just talk about tourism.
657
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,720
With tourism up until now, we've had the Kuna really appreciate during the summer months
658
00:44:53,720 --> 00:45:01,320
because of the amount of people here and basically the increase in GDP during this time.
659
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:06,760
And as such, the Kuna appreciated against the euro and you were able to get more euros
660
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,680
than you normally would for certain services, right?
661
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,040
The prices go up, demand is there.
662
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:17,160
And going forward, I think there's going to be a sensitive point where if you're in
663
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:22,400
the euro zone, you are now going to be matched more directly with the competition in the
664
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,400
region.
665
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,840
When it comes to this, it's going to be euro for euro when you're comparing to countries
666
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:33,080
such as Spain and Portugal and these other places that people inevitably do compare to.
667
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:37,160
And this is where I think there's going to be a sensitive, it's going to be pretty interesting
668
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:41,960
to see the pricing and how that works in the tourism industry.
669
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,280
So there's a lot of perspectives of this and there's opportunities, but there's also
670
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:47,840
pitfalls, right?
671
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:54,880
And how the market reacts, how people react is going to be very interesting because even
672
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,920
setting salaries, I'll just look at this, I'm an employer of many people here and we
673
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:03,320
have salary structure and grids based on Kunas.
674
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,120
And now, there's going to be a fixed rate at a certain point in time, but when it comes
675
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:12,600
to euros, how we generate our money, we don't have all of our contracts in euros.
676
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,840
We have them, there's some US dollar base, there's some Christian Kunas base, which are
677
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,920
going to have to be upgraded to this.
678
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:24,240
And these are not one contract at a time, but when you look at a larger volume of things
679
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:28,880
for me, we're going to have a risk here when we reprice things, right?
680
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,880
So there's a lot of thoughts that go with this, right?
681
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:40,640
And scaling up of many things using euro will be, I won't call it challenging, it's just
682
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,320
going to be a task where you have to think it through a bit, right?
683
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,720
And there'll be mistakes made, there'll be losses incurred, but it also be gains as well,
684
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:49,720
right?
685
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:52,160
So again, perspective is the important thing.
686
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,920
Amandha, do you have anything to add on that?
687
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,040
No, I have to agree.
688
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,960
And whenever you talk about economics, economics is the dismal science.
689
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:09,000
So you're always going to have, you do one thing and it's always going to affect something
690
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,000
else.
691
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,040
So it's going to be positive in some ways, where probably more people are going to be
692
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:21,680
more attracted to Croatia for investments, but also the other pitfall might be those
693
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:27,240
disparities that John was talking about, where, you know, like how are we going to convert
694
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:33,160
from the Kuna to the Euro and what is that going to do for prices in the country?
695
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:38,920
And there's definitely going to be an adjustment period for quite a bit of the population.
696
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,680
So we have to see how the government handles it.
697
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,840
And as John said, it really is speculation.
698
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,840
And of course, everyone will always think of the worst case scenarios when speculating,
699
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,560
which is a good thing.
700
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,320
And so we'll see how it works out.
701
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:03,640
Yeah, like with any big change, I mean, there'll be positives and negatives and, you know,
702
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,440
some level of adjustment period.
703
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,800
I wanted to break out into one sort of last question.
704
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:11,880
I think this might be a difficult one.
705
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:17,240
It sort of recaps, you know, a lot of what we were talking about before.
706
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:21,680
But I wanted to ask how can, you know, in talking about all these things and bringing
707
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:26,320
people back and different policies and changes and, you know, going to the Euro, all these
708
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,880
different things happening in government, how can you preserve Croatia's culture and
709
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,880
way of life, you know, being slower paced, you know, relaxing summers, the long coffee
710
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,720
breaks, you know, sort of everything that outsiders like about Croatia and Croatians
711
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:43,160
as well inside.
712
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:48,480
But at the same time, you know, making these changes and boosting the economy, higher salaries
713
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,160
and solving some of these bureaucratic and political problems that we have, how do you
714
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:53,560
find that balance?
715
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:58,760
Mati, you want to go first on this one?
716
00:48:58,760 --> 00:48:59,760
Sure.
717
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:09,400
I just want to kind of address, you know, having bureaucracy and let's say inefficient
718
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:15,120
governance does not need to be the result of a layback lifestyle.
719
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:20,920
In my personal opinion, you know, in the West, we often say this works smarter, not harder.
720
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:27,280
And I think that solving the bureaucratic processes, I don't think will necessarily affect the
721
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:28,280
layback style.
722
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:33,200
I think that it would just go hand in hand with the layback style because I think bureaucracy
723
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:38,240
in a lot of cases, especially if it's inefficient bureaucracy, I think it just makes it harder
724
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:43,920
for everybody that's involved in so whether or not getting a piece of paper, getting your
725
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,680
citizenship, so on and so forth.
726
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:52,360
If it's very bureaucratic and it's very inefficient, then it's more work for everybody that's involved,
727
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:53,720
eventually.
728
00:49:53,720 --> 00:50:00,680
So I think that solving bureaucracy and, you know, keeping that layback style, slower pace
729
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,160
of life, I think it would definitely just go hand in hand.
730
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:11,920
And, you know, the Croatians have been trying to tackle, you know, many issues like every
731
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:16,680
country, every country has their issues, including Croatia, including all the countries that
732
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,280
we have come from to return to Croatia.
733
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:26,120
So I think that it just kind of all goes back to what me and John were discussing before
734
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:32,080
about the Croatian economy, where I think it's necessary that the government assesses
735
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:38,760
reducing the public sector, investing in, you know, research and developments in startups,
736
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:45,520
in the private sector, and really propping up the private sector to build a better economy.
737
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:52,440
And I think that if Croatia maybe takes my comments about them thinking like a four to
738
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:57,560
five hundred company, I think that we could see a different Croatia in the future, especially
739
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:02,200
with the opportunities that are at our doorstep.
740
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,920
I think you brought up an interesting point with the work smarter, not harder, that yeah,
741
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,200
if you do become more efficient, I mean, if anything, you're creating more time, you know,
742
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:15,280
for yourself and starting things done quicker and easier and, you know, less stress.
743
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:20,000
I do think, yeah, you're right, that can't go hand in hand with keeping the Croatian
744
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,840
lifestyle and culture and, you know, not having a change into something.
745
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:29,320
I mean, just as a horrible example that might not even be right, you know, Japan, you know,
746
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:34,000
somewhere where, you know, the work culture is so strong that, you know, you may not have
747
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,320
as much time, as much off time.
748
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,560
I don't know if that was maybe the right example to use, but just somewhere where the work
749
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,760
culture overshadows the life culture.
750
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:46,400
Exactly, exactly.
751
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:51,520
And it's like if you learn economics, like it's basically the law of diminishing your
752
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:57,840
returns, that you can work more hours, you know, you can be like Japan, the United States
753
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:03,840
work over those over hours, but there comes a point where working those extra hours actually
754
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,240
goes against you, you become tired, you don't have the focus and so on and so forth.
755
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:15,200
So I think working smarter, not harder, definitely goes in even goes hand in hand, even for Croatia's
756
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:16,440
economic prosperity.
757
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:17,440
So.
758
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:18,440
Dad.
759
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,360
Yeah, I would just say, you know, you said, you know, you said, you know, you said, you
760
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,800
said, the word of the question nice, you say, how do you get that balance?
761
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,320
And that's something that's, that's tough.
762
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,200
Because you need to get volume.
763
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,080
Obviously, we need more people.
764
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:41,880
But the other part is, is even if we have what we have, the industries that we have going
765
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,960
here are what's important, right?
766
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:48,960
So if we're going to focus on production factories and this sort of, that's one thing that, you
767
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,760
know, creates a certain grind, right?
768
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:56,360
And then if you're looking at services and we have services towards tourism, but if I'm
769
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:02,440
looking at tech, there's also, you know, agriculture production, these sort of things where it's
770
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:03,440
smart.
771
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:04,840
That's a great thing.
772
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:09,520
Great point brought up, Matta, is that even agriculture can be done a lot more smart, a
773
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,720
lot more digitally these days.
774
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:17,960
You know, you create a much easier lifestyle, a healthier lifestyle that's also again productive.
775
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:19,160
You're meeting the market.
776
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:24,320
So even smart, smart industries coming in is very important.
777
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,840
And for me, that means more, you know, when you talk about general population, you got
778
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,000
to really promote entrepreneurship, right?
779
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:37,600
So that people will be able to create their own businesses, be innovative, and then they
780
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,600
get from that what they want.
781
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,600
And, you know, the more you want, maybe the more you'll work, right?
782
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,160
So, you know, not everybody wants to be in a cafe all the time.
783
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,440
People have a need to be doing stuff, being busy buddies, or others will, you know, truly
784
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,440
appreciate that lifestyle, but it'll be available.
785
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,680
And that's where I think, or you can have a possibility to have that balance across
786
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:57,160
a greater population.
787
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:00,360
Yeah, great answers from both of you guys, I think.
788
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,800
You guys are clearly well-versed and you know what you're talking about.
789
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:09,080
Definitely a lot to think about in terms of policy and, you know, future policies and
790
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,600
what can happen in the future.
791
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,320
I wanted to cap this off with just something fun.
792
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,520
And I wanted to ask if you guys have a favorite beach in Croatia?
793
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:25,160
It's a complete 360, you know what I mean?
794
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:26,720
Well, no intro.
795
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:34,000
I've been to a lot of them and there's a lot of great beaches, but I want to cheat
796
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,680
a bit and give a couple answers if I could, right?
797
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,800
I mean, you know, it's Latina just great on bowl.
798
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:40,800
That's fantastic.
799
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:46,800
And Brella has the nice, you know, small pebbles and beautiful white beaches there.
800
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,840
But one of my favorite beaches is actually on Kortula.
801
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,760
So I would say, it's called Lombarda.
802
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:53,760
I really like it a lot.
803
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:58,920
They have a couple smaller little beaches there, but where you can just walk out forever
804
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:04,600
and you're on sand and it's very, very nice.
805
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:11,880
Oh man, this is a tough question because I don't usually go to the beach that often.
806
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:13,640
I'm more of a mountaineer.
807
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:21,760
But I would probably say some of my favorite beaches in Croatia are Ambrac.
808
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:26,720
If you go to Milna, Milna is absolutely stunning.
809
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:32,360
And I don't know, since I guess my dad's a hercego, that's I gotta maybe say the Makarska
810
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:37,760
Riviera, just find any secret beach that, you know, that you can park on the side of
811
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,640
the road where there's not a lot of people.
812
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,640
So anywhere in Turchipi.
813
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,080
But I've obviously.
814
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:49,680
You know what, Monta, when you say that, if you get onto a boat or a cat and rat or
815
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,160
something in gold and you'll find beaches that are very private on the islands, right?
816
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:54,160
Any islands, literally.
817
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:55,160
That's true.
818
00:55:55,160 --> 00:56:00,440
Where you'll have privacy and you know, doesn't need to have a name beach.
819
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,440
It's just going to be in that little cove you come into and, you know, go to the beach
820
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,680
for a bit and just enjoy the water and privacy.
821
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,960
Yeah, there's a lot of those tiny little coves that are super nice and serene.
822
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,120
And sorry again to completely pivot insanely quick.
823
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:15,520
I got in a little over my head.
824
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,800
You guys know a lot more than me.
825
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,080
I didn't know how to recap that.
826
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,000
And you guys said all that better than I could.
827
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:23,000
That's for sure.
828
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,000
Very good.
829
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,080
I think secretly John is hiding his favorite beach.
830
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,440
He knows exactly what it's called, but he won't tell us.
831
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,120
Yeah, they don't really have names.
832
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,320
Don't worry about that.
833
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:40,440
In the famous words of one of our most famous soccer player, Nesyeh Chamsae.
834
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:41,440
Nesyeh Chamsae.
835
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:42,440
Oh man.
836
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:49,160
You guys, oh, you know, I really appreciate you guys coming onto the podcast.
837
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:53,760
Sorry, I took up maybe a little more of your time than you were expecting, but we got a
838
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,760
lot of great information from you guys.
839
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:56,760
And I don't know if I asked this.
840
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,600
I don't think I did, but you guys have a website.
841
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,800
If you want to shout that out, where can people find you?
842
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,400
Or do you have a social media if they want to get in contact with Crow the Aspira or
843
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,200
with you guys in general, maybe?
844
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:08,880
Yeah, for sure.
845
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:09,880
We're on Facebook.
846
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:10,880
We're on LinkedIn.
847
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,720
We're on Instagram.
848
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:16,040
But also you can visit our website, crowtheaspira.com.
849
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,520
Okay, great.
850
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:23,160
And I'll put some tag links when this goes up so people can click on that down below
851
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:24,160
or whatever it is.
852
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,120
But yeah, thank you guys again so much.
853
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,440
And I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the podcast.
854
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:29,440
It was a pleasure.
855
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:30,440
Thanks a lot, Sanko.
856
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,160
I really enjoyed it.
857
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,640
That's it for today's episode of the All Things Crow Asia podcast.
858
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,000
Thanks for tuning in and I hope you all enjoyed it.
859
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:43,080
You can subscribe to the Patreon and check out the All Things Crow Asia Instagram page
860
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:44,600
to stay updated.
861
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:49,080
Feel free to reach out to me with any questions, tips or ideas and make sure to tune back into
862
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:50,600
the next episode.
863
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:56,600
Thanks again and bidimosen.