1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,680 Welcome back to a new episode of the All Things Croatia podcast. 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:05,680 I'm your host, Stan Kozolak. 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:10,400 Born and raised in Los Angeles, I'm now living in Zagreb and studying the Croatian language. 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:15,000 Before we start, just do me a favor and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,020 listening, as well as the Facebook and Instagram page. 6 00:00:18,020 --> 00:00:21,800 In this series, I'll be talking with people both in the homeland and around the globe who 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,240 have connections to Croatia. 8 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:28,480 We'll hear from startups, returning to Aspora, musicians and athletes, and the biggest Croatian 9 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,880 celebrities and what returned my calls. 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:31,880 But enough about me. 11 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,200 I'm Idem Odaulje and let's get started. 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,120 All right, welcome back to the podcast, everyone. 13 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,320 Today we have a special guest, Andrea Pizaz. 14 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:46,120 Andrea is a writer and anthropologist from the UK who moved back to Croatia for a greater 15 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:47,840 sense of purpose. 16 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,640 She's the author of several famous Croatian cookbooks, as well as novels and other works, 17 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,600 and also is the creator of the blog, Croatia Honestly, where she writes about food, history, 18 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:58,600 and culture. 19 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,640 In this episode, we're going to talk about why she left her old life behind, her passion 20 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,480 for blogging and writing, and maybe even learn a Croatian recipe or two. 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,440 Andrea, thanks for coming on the podcast. 22 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:13,720 Hi, Stanko, and thank you for inviting me and hello to everyone who is listening. 23 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:14,720 Yes, of course. 24 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,760 Glad to have you on. 25 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,560 Let's start a little bit about yourself and your background. 26 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,680 Obviously, you have Croatian roots. 27 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,880 And I know in my intro just now, I said that you moved back to Croatia, but I wasn't exactly 28 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:27,880 sure. 29 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,680 Were you born in Croatia, went to the UK, and then moved back? 30 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:32,680 Or how did that work? 31 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:43,240 Yeah, I think it was such a kind of circular movement for me, just like I don't even know 32 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,240 now. 33 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,200 I always feel like both an insider and an outsider wherever I go. 34 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:55,920 I think this happens to people who are born in one country, then move away, and they have 35 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:01,280 this kind of opportunity to see their own culture from the outside, from a foreigner's 36 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:02,280 perspective. 37 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,760 So, yes, I was born in Croatia, and one of the most difficult questions for me when people 38 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:13,760 ask me where I'm from in Croatia, I never really know what to say, because I'm not really 39 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:21,520 emotionally attached to the little town where I was born, but more so to the two regions 40 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,160 in Croatia where my parents come from. 41 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,000 So my mom comes from Međimurje, which is northwest Croatia. 42 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:35,120 This beautiful and hilly green area that's kind of framed with two rivers, the Mura 43 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,920 and the Drava. 44 00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:38,520 And my father is Dalmatian. 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:49,200 So as a child, we always spent our summers in Dalmatia, in Split, and I have a lot of 46 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:58,760 contacts with my family and cousins there, and also I would visit Međimurje a lot. 47 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:03,960 And then it all comes down to food and what kind of food we ate as kids. 48 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:12,240 So this is my kind of cultural heritage that I bring along with me when I think about my 49 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,200 Croatian identity. 50 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:21,760 And then I moved, I went to London to the UK when I was in my 20s. 51 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,440 Everything was really accidental. 52 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:33,040 I studied English and Croatian as my BA degrees, and I was always dreaming of going to an English-speaking 53 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,960 country, and then I started working for the British Council in Zagreb, and there was an 54 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:43,480 opportunity to go and do an MA in the UK, and I applied. 55 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,880 But everything was like, I was never really pushy with everything. 56 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:52,040 I just kind of filled out the application form, and then the results came back, and 57 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:57,560 I was accepted, and so it kind of snowballed from there. 58 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:07,440 And all of a sudden I had all these academic successes, and I was really doing well because 59 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:12,560 the academic world is so different in the UK than in Croatia, and I really, really liked 60 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,680 it, and I fell in love with anthropology. 61 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:27,680 And this is a discipline that's not very common or very evolved in Croatia, so it was a new 62 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:33,640 discovery for me, and then I decided to continue with the PhD, and that's how I basically stayed 63 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,040 in the UK for 13 years. 64 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:42,280 And so anthropology, you didn't become interested until after you were already in the UK? 65 00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:44,240 Yes, exactly. 66 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:53,480 Because in Croatia we have the discipline that's most similar to the Anglo-Saxon anthropology. 67 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:58,360 It's called ethnology, or maybe folklore studies. 68 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:05,880 And in the Croatian understanding, this is basically when you go out into the villages 69 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:12,520 and you collect all those kind of old artifacts, and then you work in a museum, and you, you 70 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:18,800 know, it's kind of like, it's a little bit retro, let's say. 71 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:28,280 And in the UK anthropology was all about traveling to kind of distant places and trying to understand 72 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:31,240 something that's unfamiliar to you. 73 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:37,880 So like kind of exposing yourself to a completely different culture, to a different language, 74 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,720 to a different way of life, to a different understanding of the world. 75 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:49,400 And this kind of teaches you how to accept all those differences, but it also kind of 76 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,080 makes you think about your own identity. 77 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:59,000 And this is how you, it kind of mirrors, it acts as a mirror to yourself, you know, you 78 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,400 begin to understand yourself a little bit better, your own cultural background. 79 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,840 And it's always like a two-way street, and it's really kind of, it develops your curiosity 80 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:10,840 a lot. 81 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:11,840 Hmm. 82 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:16,760 Do you think that being in, I mean, going from Croatia to, you know, as big a country 83 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:22,840 as the UK, did that, and then studying anthropology, did that increase your sense of identity? 84 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:26,120 Thinking like, oh, I come from this small, you know, I know you said you didn't feel a 85 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,440 connection to the small village, but you know, some of these smaller places in Croatia, and 86 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,000 now you're in a huge, you know, country. 87 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,360 Did that give you any sort of, like different perspective on your identity? 88 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,280 Oh, definitely. 89 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:48,440 Like I think that when you live for the entire life, just immersed in one environment, you, 90 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,560 you don't have that kind of, it's very difficult for you to know what your identity is. 91 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,160 If someone asks you, you know, what are you like? 92 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:01,320 It's very difficult for you to say that because you don't, you don't have that reference point. 93 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,600 You don't know how different or similar to what you are. 94 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,000 So when you start, everything boils down to comparison. 95 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:17,920 When you start comparing yourself to somebody else, you say, okay, so in London, you know, 96 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:23,240 people are more individualistic and, you know, they don't care what other people think about 97 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:24,240 them. 98 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:29,320 You know, they can wear their pajamas and walk down the street and nobody will, you know, 99 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,320 nobody will even look at them or even kind of gossip about them. 100 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,720 But if you do that in Zagreb or even in a smaller town in Croatia, you know, they'll 101 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,000 ask you, oh my God, what will your mom say? 102 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,360 What will your aunt say? 103 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,360 You know, aren't you cold? 104 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,760 You'll embarrass your whole family. 105 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:52,440 So yeah, we kind of like, then you realize, okay, people, we are more kind of collective, 106 00:07:52,440 --> 00:08:00,240 collectively minded, you know, in Croatia and in the UK, people are more kind of centered 107 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:06,520 towards themselves and their own kind of individual ambition and, you know, we are more kind of 108 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:07,920 family based. 109 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:13,240 And then you start to make these comparisons, you know, we are like this, they are like that. 110 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,160 And it kind of builds your own sense of who you are. 111 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:24,520 And then when somebody asks you, you know, what is Croatia like or what are we Croatians 112 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,720 like, then it gets easier for you to say that. 113 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,240 Yeah, that's a good point. 114 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,960 And I think I can understand that because for me, it was like the opposite. 115 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,560 You know, I was from Born and Raised in Los Angeles, a huge city. 116 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:42,360 And I like, I had that perspective, the big side to compare it to, you know, the Croatian 117 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,160 community that I knew in Los Angeles, but I didn't really have the Croatian side, you 118 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:52,040 know, I went, it was two summers, and that was it for a couple of weeks at a time. 119 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,160 And so that's why I wanted to move to Zagreb, you know, where I'm currently right now, I'm 120 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,720 back in LA, but just for a few more days here, I'm going back to Zagreb. 121 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:06,840 But for me, it was important to go and, you know, be in Croatia and have that sense of, 122 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,760 you know, being there and being able to describe that to people. 123 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:15,280 So I understand from like a reverse sort of point as what you're saying. 124 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:20,120 And I wanted to ask you, while you were in London, did you find a Croatian community 125 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:21,120 over there? 126 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,120 Did you look for one? 127 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:27,400 Or was it sort of you wanted to immerse yourself in the, you know, London scene? 128 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,760 I wasn't really thinking about that. 129 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:40,280 But what happened was that when I started my MA, it was a college that was called Central 130 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,640 and Southeast European Studies. 131 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:50,000 So there was a group of people that, you know, I found like several people from Croatia. 132 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,240 And it was enough for me, like I made friends with like four or five people who were from 133 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,320 Croatia and we, you know, we spent time together. 134 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:04,720 And then I didn't have that kind of need to go and look for a wider Croatian community. 135 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:10,160 But I did find out that there is a much smaller Croatian community than in other English-speaking 136 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,560 countries. 137 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:16,880 So there wasn't much migration from Croatia to the UK. 138 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,480 I know that there is one Croatian church in London. 139 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:22,920 But that's about it. 140 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:28,800 I think there isn't more than like a thousand Croatian people living in London, something 141 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,240 like that. 142 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:38,080 There is a Croatian embassy in London and they kind of act as a cultural center, let's 143 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:39,080 say. 144 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:49,360 They host lots of events and roundtable discussions and, you know, so when you make yourself known 145 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:55,800 to them, you will get on their list and then you'll get invited to different events. 146 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,080 I wanted to ask you then. 147 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,840 It seems like you were enjoying your life in London and, you know, your studies and 148 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,120 getting an experience that you weren't able to get, you know, in Croatia. 149 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,880 Why did you decide to move back? 150 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,360 What was that motivator? 151 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:16,240 Well, again, I think it was just pure chance, really. 152 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:23,280 When I was living in London and whenever I visited Zagreb and the good thing about being 153 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:28,640 in the UK is that, you know, we got like the flights were quite cheap. 154 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,040 So I was able to visit three or four times a year. 155 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,840 And whenever I came back to Croatia and my friends asked me if I was ever going to come 156 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,120 back, I would always be very determined. 157 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:40,120 Never. 158 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:41,760 I'm never coming back. 159 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,520 And but, you know, that never say never. 160 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:54,800 And when I finished my PhD, I got a job at the college where I graduated and it was a 161 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,960 research post. 162 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:03,560 And the topic was not something that I chose, but, you know, it was kind of like so far removed 163 00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:05,080 from my academic interest. 164 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:10,600 It was about gambling in Europe and something completely new to me because I was more focused 165 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,360 on literature and culture. 166 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:20,080 But it was interesting to me because one of the countries that was covered in this whole 167 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,600 big European study was Slovenia. 168 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:28,120 So I was thinking, OK, it's a really nice job and, you know, I would spend one year 169 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:33,840 living in Slovenia that's so close to Croatia, I will be able to visit my friends and spend 170 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,320 more time in Zagreb. 171 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,000 So I applied and I got the job. 172 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,880 And I was positioned in the town called Nova Gorica, which is actually on the border with 173 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,400 Italy. 174 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,120 And it would take me two hours in the car to go back to Zagreb. 175 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,520 So I spent almost every weekend in Zagreb. 176 00:12:53,520 --> 00:13:01,120 And you know, after so many years living in London, I kind of like I lost touch with the 177 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,560 everyday life in Croatia. 178 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:07,240 And I remembered mostly the reasons why I left. 179 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,960 So I left because I thought Croatia was corrupted. 180 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:17,360 You know, I was so I was always a very, very hardworking person, always very creative, always 181 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,040 kind of coloring outside the lines. 182 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:26,840 And when I graduated from my BA, I wasn't able to find a job, you know, through kind 183 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:33,520 of mainstream channels because I didn't have any, you know, aunts and uncles in politics. 184 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:43,520 And then, you know, I was kind of I had like a bitter taste in my mouth, you know, remembering 185 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:44,520 those days. 186 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:50,400 And that's why I never wanted to come back because like compared to Croatia, the UK is 187 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,480 such a, you know, meritocratic country. 188 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:58,440 If you work hard and, you know, if you have a vision, you will definitely make it there, 189 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,800 you know. 190 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,200 But then, you know, the more time I spent in Croatia in that year when I was based in 191 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:12,480 Slovenia, I started noticing like really, really positive things and, you know, how friends 192 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:20,960 and family help each other, how there are certain things that you can't really monetize. 193 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:28,440 Like, I think I wrote about that episode on my blog, how one day we had a dinner like 194 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:34,240 10 friends, you know, sitting around the table and we had such great food and it was a real 195 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,920 feast and everything, you know, in the midst of this situation where there were so many 196 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:44,240 people unemployed and, you know, the economic situation is horrible and everybody is complaining 197 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,440 about how life is difficult. 198 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:52,840 But then I stopped myself at one point and I was, you know, looked around and I realized, 199 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:58,240 you know, my God, you know, people are living such comfortable and enjoyable lives despite 200 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,840 all these troubles and the only, and one of the biggest reasons why this is so is because 201 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:11,040 we are so connected and willing to help each other and this is, you know, I realized this 202 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:18,840 was so powerful and so precious, you know, this kind of reliance, you know, on your 203 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:26,360 close friends and your family, you know, something that, I don't know, it makes you feel safe, 204 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:32,880 you know, you always have that safety network, which is really, really difficult to find 205 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,360 in a world which is more kind of focused on individual ambition and successes. 206 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:42,440 You know, I think that's what the diaspora and a lot of the people that come back to 207 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,840 Croatia, you know, that's how they feel about the country as well. 208 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,120 I mean, there's so many great things, the community, the sense of belonging and like, 209 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,040 of course, the economy is not the best, the politicians are not the best, but like you 210 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,920 can still be happy there, you know. 211 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:57,920 Yeah. 212 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:06,720 I think that, you know, when people say that the happy person is that one who doesn't need 213 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:07,720 a lot. 214 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:19,640 So, I think in the West, most people are kind of driven to make a lot of money and to just 215 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:27,000 to accumulate things and to have a lot, but in Croatia, you don't have to have a lot to 216 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,000 be happy. 217 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:34,040 Like you can be, make a very, very nice life with much less than in the West. 218 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,720 That's the point, I think, of having a great life in Croatia. 219 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,880 Yeah, I agree. 220 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,600 And I wanted to point out, it sounds like you're kind of move away from Croatia and 221 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,640 you're move back to Croatia, we're both kind of by chance, you know, snowball effect. 222 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:51,640 Yes, definitely. 223 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,640 I thought that was funny. 224 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,440 You know, you had told me before that most of your work, I know you mentioned the gambling 225 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:06,680 studies, but nowadays most of your work can be described as cultural tourism and you've 226 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,800 actually received three different awards for your work in that field and I just want to 227 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:11,960 go over two of them. 228 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,360 I don't know if I can talk about the third, but. 229 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:18,200 Not yet because it's not been public. 230 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,000 I won't talk about that, but believe me, there's three. 231 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,840 And the city of Zagreb award for the exceptional contribution to promoting Zagreb's culture 232 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:31,880 and history and the Marco Polo Award for travel writing in Croatia. 233 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,000 And a third undisclosed, but there is one. 234 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,880 And I want to ask you, first of all, what exactly is cultural tourism and how are you 235 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,160 involved in that? 236 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,200 And then, you know, we can get into the awards a little and how that happened. 237 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:57,360 So I think that's kind of one of the most recent, let's say sub-genres or sub-forms 238 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:04,920 of tourism is that this realization that people really travel to experience culture 239 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:11,600 in a different place and to get to know how the local people live and what their traditions 240 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:18,800 are, you know, how they look at the world, you know, because they have maybe different 241 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:25,960 mindsets or more kind of, in a more kind of material way, the kind of the rituals they 242 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:31,800 have, the holidays they celebrate, the kind of dress they wear. 243 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:39,040 All this is something that is a much deeper understanding of the destination. 244 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,480 It's not only about, like, walking down the street and seeing buildings and sights and, 245 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,440 you know, eating in a local restaurant. 246 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:54,640 So I think that many, many destination, like mature tourist destinations realize that they 247 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:01,520 have to provide a much richer experience to people, you know, who are coming to visit. 248 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:12,880 And I don't know, I found myself in that area because of the two of my loves and one is 249 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:19,360 writing and the other one is research and more specifically ethnographic research, which 250 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:25,400 means basically capturing this kind of nitty gritty of everyday life of something that 251 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,800 most people take for granted. 252 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:33,200 So for example, when I talk to people who visit Croatia for the first time and I ask 253 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,720 them, you know, what's so great about Croatia? 254 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,960 And they will say, it's just the way you live. 255 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:44,760 It's like, you know, it's this kind of ubiquitous coffee drinking and, you know, the feeling 256 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:54,360 of just spending your days in a relaxed mode and always like seeing, you know, that we 257 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:59,240 are capable of enjoying the sweetness of doing nothing. 258 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,520 And you know, if you think, you know, if you ask yourself, what is this really? 259 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,120 Well, this is our culture. 260 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,520 This is our, you know, our way of life. 261 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:18,320 So I started writing about that on my blog and it was always an unusual travel blog as, 262 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:24,480 you know, because I was never like, you know, top 10 things to see in Croatia, top five 263 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,480 restaurants to eat in. 264 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,360 I was always writing about, you know, how people live in Croatia. 265 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:35,920 And I started getting lots of positive feedback and people would say to me, oh, I cannot really 266 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:41,080 understand now, you know, I would say, you know, give Zagreb a chance, you know, don't 267 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:46,720 stay only two days, stay two weeks and you'll, you know, it's a slow burn city. 268 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,680 You will really get under its skin, you know, if you stay a bit longer and, you know, they 269 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,080 listened to my advice and they were like over the moon, like, you know, you opened a completely 270 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,560 different world for me. 271 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:06,600 So then I started choosing these kind of more cultural topics and people really liked that. 272 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:12,600 And then the tourist board in Zagreb noticed all my work and they approached me and we 273 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:20,080 started cooperating on different projects and one of them was the video blog. 274 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,880 So it's kind of called vlog. 275 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:29,800 So I gave it the name Zagreb Shortcuts and I filmed for them for four seasons. 276 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:38,160 So it was like, I filmed over four years, like three to five minute episodes about different 277 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:45,680 interesting things culturally, historically, or just, you know, little quirks about Zagreb, 278 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:51,240 you know, what, you know, how you can deepen your experience when you're in Zagreb. 279 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,200 And that was really, really popular. 280 00:21:53,200 --> 00:22:01,240 And then each year when the city of Zagreb gives this award, they need, somebody needs 281 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,000 to kind of nominate you for that. 282 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:10,800 So I got nominated and I think it's all the kind of combination of everything that I've 283 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:16,320 done until that point that kind of, that got me that award. 284 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,160 Yeah, that's, it sounds like a big deal. 285 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,160 That's really cool. 286 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:21,160 Yes. 287 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:30,760 And to me, it was a very, very proud moment because the ceremony when you receive that 288 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,680 award is really, really beautiful. 289 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:41,480 You're basically invited into the Zagreb City Council, I think, you know, Zagrebaczka 290 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:52,120 Skupstina, which is in the upper town and it's in the old historic hall, which was used, 291 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:57,440 it has been used as a city council for like, I think, 200 years. 292 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:03,240 And in that room, it was for the first time that even Kukuliewicz spoke Croatian during 293 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:09,320 the time when Croatia was part of the Austro-Hungarian monarchy and when German and Hungarian were 294 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,320 official languages. 295 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:17,480 So for me, as a person who is, you know, all about Croatian language and literature, it 296 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,400 made me so proud and it, you know, it gave me goosebumps when, when I was able to receive 297 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,120 that award in that place. 298 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,560 Yeah, a lot of history in that building. 299 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,320 And also a little bit about that travel award, Marco Polo award. 300 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:36,400 It's also interesting that when people think about travel writing, they always think that 301 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:42,360 you need to leave your home and go to a different country to be able to call your writing travel 302 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:43,360 writing. 303 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:50,000 But on my blog, I actually pushed those boundaries and I was always educating my readers saying 304 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:57,680 that you can actually explore your home place, your hometown, as if it was a different destination 305 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:03,200 because it happens so often that we take for granted everything that surrounds us. 306 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:08,640 And then when somebody comes to visit you, like a friend from far away, then you begin 307 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:14,920 like, researching about your own city to be able to kind of like show it to your friends 308 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,880 and then you begin learning about it and see it from, from a different perspective. 309 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,520 And then I called it like traveling without moving. 310 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,880 And my award for travel writing was for that particular genre. 311 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,160 So I was very proud of that too. 312 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:30,640 Wow, that's very interesting. 313 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,120 Yeah, I've never really thought about that as a sub genre before, but it makes sense, 314 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:38,680 especially for me here in LA, like when I have friends from college, you know, I went 315 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,360 out of state, they come to visit and say, you know, what should we do in LA? 316 00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:44,200 I'm like, Oh, I mean, I don't even know. 317 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,080 You know, I have my own little routines and places that I go, but they said, well, let's 318 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,080 hike the Hollywood sign. 319 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,080 You know, that's popular. 320 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,080 Right? 321 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,080 I said, yeah, actually, I've never even been. 322 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,040 I've never even seen the Hollywood sign still to this day. 323 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,040 I haven't. 324 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,520 And like, yeah, so there's so many things, you know, right around you that like you haven't 325 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,840 explored before, you know, you kind of get stuck in your, in your ways and don't really 326 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,880 think about branching out in your own, you know, hometown. 327 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,880 Yeah. 328 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:10,880 Yeah. 329 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,720 That's a very interesting award. 330 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,320 I do want to get more into the writing. 331 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,080 Let's talk about your blog a little and I wanted to ask, I forgot. 332 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,760 I wanted to ask, um, where can people find your vlog, the video one where you got the 333 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,560 city of Zagreb award? 334 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,400 Uh, well, that can be found on my YouTube channel. 335 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,840 So my YouTube channel is just Andrea Pissat. 336 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,160 It's not branded like Croatia, honestly. 337 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,920 And I post all my vlog episodes there. 338 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,120 So there's even a playlist called Zagreb shortcuts. 339 00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:44,920 So all the episodes are there. 340 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:45,920 Okay. 341 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:46,920 Great. 342 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:47,920 It makes it easy for you. 343 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,400 And I'll post, we'll post the, um, all the links that you would like, um, when this goes 344 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,400 up. 345 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,240 So people listening will be able to find that. 346 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,880 Um, you know, as you're well aware, Andrea, but for those who are listening and don't 347 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:05,080 know or didn't make the connection, your last name, Pissat's means writer. 348 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,880 And, um, so with that in mind, when did you start? 349 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,800 What your blog, Croatia, honestly? 350 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,000 Uh, it was in 2014. 351 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,920 So, uh, basically when this academic project finished, you know, the one that was about 352 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:28,000 gambling that took me to Slovenia, I was offered, um, permanent lectureship in London. 353 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,960 So they asked me to come back and to be a lecturer. 354 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:40,320 And, um, when you do just, when I was a research fellow, I was actually lucky to not to have 355 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,880 to go to my office, uh, and to my college every day. 356 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:50,200 So my life was kind of like, you know, I was spending most of my time in, in Zagreb. 357 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:55,040 And then I would, once a month, I would go back to London to have like team meetings 358 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,840 and conferences and all that's involved in the academic life. 359 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,960 But when they told me that I would have to take a lectureship, that would mean that I 360 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,240 would have to teach twice a week. 361 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,000 And it would mean that I would have to go back to London. 362 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:16,600 And I turned that down and all my friends here, they told me that I was completely insane. 363 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:25,360 But by that point, I was kind of getting tired of the academia itself because I was just, 364 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:31,440 because I always thought that I was more a fiction writer than an academic writer. 365 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,920 And also I was getting tired of London because it was such a huge city. 366 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:43,320 And I think it's an amazing city when you have, um, I don't know, when you have a mission. 367 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,640 And my mission was basically to get all my studies done there. 368 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:54,560 And, but kind of life in such a, when you think about like settling down, having a family 369 00:27:54,560 --> 00:28:01,840 and, you know, having a quieter life, I don't know, a city with over 10 million people and 370 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,160 so sprawled out like London where it takes you like two hours on the public transport 371 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,080 to get it to anywhere. 372 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,840 It just sounded like, oh no, I can't do that anymore. 373 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:20,040 So that at that point, my life changed drastically because I basically quit my job and I moved 374 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,040 countries and then I had to think about what to do next. 375 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,640 And, and then I just said, okay, so I'm just going to start a blog. 376 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:34,120 And I didn't have a clue, you know, where, you know, where this would get me, what direction 377 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:35,120 to take. 378 00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:41,800 I just knew that Zagreb was changing at that time and it was becoming a tourist destination 379 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,000 in its own right. 380 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:50,120 So before like Zagreb was just, you know, a place where people stopped, you know, before 381 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,080 going to the Croatian coast. 382 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:58,800 And I realized that there was a lack of any kind of decent travel writing about Zagreb. 383 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:05,640 So it, you know, it wasn't properly described apart from those like 10 best or 5 best kind 384 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,040 of more dry kind of writing. 385 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:14,640 And so I wanted to kind of infuse it with the more kind of spicy stories. 386 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,080 And this is how I started my blog. 387 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,960 It was first called Zagreb, honestly. 388 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:24,800 And I wrote only about Zagreb and then eventually I kind of branched out to cover the entire 389 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:25,800 Croatia. 390 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:32,160 So yeah, it's been going on now for what, eight years now. 391 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,960 Wow, that sounds a lot. 392 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,520 When you say it out loud. 393 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:43,680 On the topic of Zagreb and on this topic in specific, what do you think is something 394 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,000 that's often overlooked about Zagreb, you know, when people go either tourists or, you 395 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,480 know, other people in Croatia that are just, you know, stopping by the main city, what's 396 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,880 something that you think can be discovered more or people when they're going on vacation, 397 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,800 they should really stop and do. 398 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:07,120 I think it's both a blessing and a curse in the case of Zagreb because Zagreb is in my 399 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:13,520 mind, like when I compare it to other cities, it's still not a proper or a mature tourist 400 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:21,160 destination because the best things in Zagreb are not packaged as a tourist product, let's 401 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,160 say. 402 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:27,520 So this is great because Zagreb doesn't feel staged yet. 403 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:37,520 So like if you stay in Zagreb for more than a week, you can discover all these different 404 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,920 kinds of like green spaces. 405 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:46,840 And if you read a guide, you will get like suggestions like go to Maximir or go to Sleme, 406 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,400 you know, these are the kind of like most obvious green areas of Zagreb. 407 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:58,520 But for me, I absolutely adore Tuscany, which is kind of like a semi-wild forest right 408 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,040 in the middle of the city. 409 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:05,840 And you only basically have to turn north, northward, you know, from Ilica, from the 410 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:13,680 main Ilica street and you start winding those, you know, forested trails and you basically 411 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,440 you will feel like you're not in the city anymore. 412 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,840 But this kind of thing is, you know, it's not charted anywhere. 413 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:26,560 You don't have any kind of guide which, you know, which will say, okay, take the green 414 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,720 route or take the red route or, you know, it's not mapped out yet. 415 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,160 It's all down to you to discover it on your own. 416 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,960 Hmm, yeah, I guess like a blessing and a curse, like you said, you know, it's sort of, you 417 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,520 might not be able to find it, but when you do and it's kind of on your own, you know, 418 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,680 it feels like you're just a part of the city and atmosphere rather than you're just on 419 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:53,240 some doing some touristic walk or something, you know. 420 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:54,240 Yeah. 421 00:31:54,240 --> 00:32:02,440 And then there are some like some people who write in Croatia who are like total, you know, 422 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,960 fans of all this kind of off the beaten path places in Zagreb. 423 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:12,560 And I read somewhere that there are so many different varieties of plants, you know, that 424 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:18,040 are kind of like medicinal herbs that that grown Zagreb. 425 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,880 So it's actually, you know, we really, really have like pockets of complete wilderness right 426 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,400 in the city center. 427 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:25,400 Hmm. 428 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,800 Yeah, I'll have to explore that more. 429 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:27,800 Yeah. 430 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,400 Not to mention that, you know, there are foxes living in those areas, you know, the, you 431 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:38,800 know, the rich, the so-called cottage neighborhood that kind of borders the, you know, the Medvedinica 432 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:39,800 mountain. 433 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,560 I have friends who live there and they tell me that they see foxes there all the time. 434 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,480 So we have wildlife there as well. 435 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,480 The red ones. 436 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:49,480 Yes. 437 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,480 Yeah. 438 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:51,480 Wow. 439 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,480 It's pretty cool. 440 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,240 I've always wanted to see, you know what I noticed when I first went to Zagreb? 441 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,320 I noticed, um, what are the hedgehogs? 442 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,320 Yes. 443 00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:59,320 Yes. 444 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:00,320 Right. 445 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,840 So I've thought in all my life in Croatia. 446 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:13,080 And also like, um, in terms of food, uh, I remember having a discussion with an American, 447 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,480 uh, journalist who specializes in right in travel writing. 448 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:24,960 And he also, um, talked a lot about how a destination matures, you know, um, in terms 449 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,360 of like receiving, um, travelers and tourists. 450 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:36,440 So in the beginning it's always like we, we want to impress and we want to serve food 451 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:41,640 which we think is good enough for people who arrive to our country. 452 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:47,320 And then, um, this means that we are basically almost ashamed of the food that we cook at 453 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:48,480 home. 454 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:53,840 And as the destination matures, we realize that it's that kind of homely cooking that's 455 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,040 most interesting to people who come and visit us. 456 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:03,680 And in Zagreb, there are very, very few places where you can eat the kind of food that your 457 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,400 moms and bakas cooked at home. 458 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,720 And this for me is a real shame, you know, sometimes you will see like one bistro or two 459 00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:18,920 or three bistros like offering, you know, punjene paprike, like stuffed bell peppers. 460 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:25,520 Um, but they are never the ones, you know, who are most popular because I remember as 461 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:30,200 a child, the only time when we would eat out was like for a special occasion. 462 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,720 And then, you know, as children, we loved junk food and we always wanted to eat pizza 463 00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:35,720 or chavapi. 464 00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:42,640 So this, this is what kind of stayed, you know, we have lots of like pizza and chavapi 465 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:49,040 places, but not so much, you know, places where you can eat beans or sarma or stuffed 466 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,760 peppers or homemade strudel. 467 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:58,120 This is the stuff, so I always say like the best food in Croatia is cooked at people's 468 00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,120 homes. 469 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,640 So you should be lucky enough to get invited into a Croatian home. 470 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,640 Yeah. 471 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,520 That, yeah, that's where you want to have dinner. 472 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,680 Maybe not at a fancy restaurant, but at someone's house. 473 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:09,840 Yeah. 474 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,520 I do miss the punjene paprike. 475 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,400 That's one of my favorite dishes. 476 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,760 And you know, um, my Baba used to make this and this might be, she was from the cello 477 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,520 in Herzegovina, but um, pura. 478 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,240 And I've never seen that at a restaurant. 479 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:28,800 I mean, I know it's not like a fanciest dish to make and it's just kind of, you know, 480 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,040 let me whip something up, simple kind of breakfasty thing. 481 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,880 But I was wondering, have you ever seen that in any restaurants or do you make that? 482 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:37,880 You mean, you mean Palenta? 483 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:38,880 Yeah. 484 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,080 Do you mean, okay. 485 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:45,760 So from my dad's side, you know, in Dalmatia, they also call it pura. 486 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:55,200 And I can't remember if I saw it in any restaurants, but people do make it often in their homes. 487 00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:02,400 So this is something that you will eat with broodet, you know, with fish stew. 488 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,800 People eat that with different kinds of goulash as well. 489 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:11,960 So it's quite common at home, but it's kind of considered like a really, really simple 490 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,160 and almost kind of like a poor people's grub, you know. 491 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,000 So it's that kind of complex that I was telling you about. 492 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:21,400 It's like, it's too simple. 493 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,680 It's too kind of, you know, it's not for a restaurant. 494 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,920 So that's why it's not on the menu. 495 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,840 And you know, speaking of the dialect difference there, I was asking someone in Zagreb about 496 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:33,840 that. 497 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:34,840 When was it? 498 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,840 Maybe for Thanksgiving or Thanksgiving. 499 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:37,840 They don't even have that over there. 500 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:38,840 What am I saying? 501 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,000 I might have been used to, I forget what the occasion was, but I said, are you gonna have 502 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,000 pura? 503 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,200 And he, you know, my Croatian is really bad. 504 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,120 So he's like, oh yeah, you know, we'll have that. 505 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,920 And I realized he was talking about Turkey. 506 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,240 He thought I was asking about Turkey. 507 00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:53,800 I was like, oh no, no. 508 00:36:53,800 --> 00:37:00,880 Yeah, it seems like, yeah, we almost like speak three different languages in Croatia. 509 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,040 Dialects are so far apart. 510 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,720 Like I remember this anecdote. 511 00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:12,240 My mom told me the first time when she took my father to Međumurje, he asked her basically 512 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:16,960 to, you know, be a consecutive translator because he couldn't understand anything they 513 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:17,960 were saying. 514 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:23,200 So he was a Dalmatian and he was brought to a Cahkevian house, you know, they were speaking 515 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:28,400 this dialect that sounded more Slovenian than Croatian and he was completely lost. 516 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,240 Wow, and it was that different, huh? 517 00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:32,240 Yeah. 518 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:35,040 That's crazy. 519 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,400 Back on the topic of cooking. 520 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:42,680 So you came out with two Croatian cookbooks and most recently, I believe, was the desserts 521 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:43,680 one? 522 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:50,080 No, the desserts one was the first one and the classics one came out last year. 523 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,840 So that's the most recent one. 524 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:52,840 I see. 525 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:53,840 Okay. 526 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,560 And how did you come up with, first of all, the idea to actually go through, because you 527 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,560 know, everyone wants to compile their Croatian recipes together that they know, but to actually 528 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,880 go through with that and produce it and publish one. 529 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,160 So, you know, how did that decision come about? 530 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:15,480 I think this also had to do with me spending so many years away from home and baking was 531 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,560 one of the ways for me to kind of cure my nostalgia. 532 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:28,880 And I remember that I would always pack ground poppy seed and carob whenever I was in Croatia 533 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:35,480 and I was like doing all the shopping for, you know, packing for London, I would always 534 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:40,480 get those two ingredients because I could never find that in London, not the kind, you 535 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,120 know, the type that we use in Croatian baking. 536 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,800 And then when my friends asked me, you know, to bake something, it was always like a simple 537 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:54,480 or carob cake that people in Dalmatia make or something with ground poppy seed, because 538 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,600 it's virtually impossible to find ground poppy seed in the UK. 539 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:06,720 And so I had this kind of urge to basically, you know, comfort myself with those kind of 540 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:13,320 desserts, but also to show to my English friends, you know, the stuff that we make at home. 541 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:19,520 And then, you know, when I came back to Croatia, you know, how people like to give themselves 542 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:26,480 crazy challenges, it kind of started one evening when I said to my husband, let's do like this 543 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:33,320 really ridiculous thing and like bake 50 desserts in one month. 544 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:38,640 And then, you know, I always have these crazy ideas and he's so great because he always 545 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:39,640 supports me. 546 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,000 He never thinks that things are impossible. 547 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,000 He always says go for it. 548 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,320 Well, he also got to eat all the desserts, I'm sure. 549 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,320 Yes. 550 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,720 And you wouldn't believe how slim he is, you know, he can eat so much and he never puts 551 00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:54,720 any weight on. 552 00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:58,040 So he's a perfect, you know, tester. 553 00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,040 Yeah. 554 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:04,600 And then, you know, I started with, you know, with my favorite things. 555 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:10,880 Oh, I forgot to mention also the kind of the anecdote of how I learned to make a strudel. 556 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:22,040 So that's like a big, big, big thing in my kind of cultural heritage, I would say, because 557 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:27,920 my grandma from Međimurje, she knew how to make like the perfect strudel, you know, 558 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:33,480 the perfect homemade strudel dough, that one that has to be like really, really thin, 559 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,480 you know, thin enough so you can see through it. 560 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:37,840 She didn't have any holes. 561 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:44,160 She could stretch it over like a large table. 562 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,320 And then she tried to teach my mom how to do it. 563 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:53,680 And, you know, my mom was there, you know, looking at my grandma and, you know, she explained, 564 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,120 she told her everything. 565 00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:01,880 And, you know, when my mom tried to do, to replicate that, she always failed. 566 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:07,680 She failed so many times that one time she actually crumpled the entire tablecloth together 567 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,320 with the dough and she threw that into the bin. 568 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,600 She said, I've had enough, I'm a failure, I can't do it. 569 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:20,080 And you know, as my grandma was like getting, you know, older and older, I realized, you 570 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,360 know, but we have to keep that tradition, you know, I have to get that recipe, I have 571 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,800 to learn how to make a strudel. 572 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:32,880 So, you know, I spoke to my grandma and, you know, she told me, you know, the dough needs 573 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:40,600 to be this thin and this soft and, you know, she gave me all this kind of descriptive guidelines. 574 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:48,160 And then I also, you know, read a lot about, you know, the culinary techniques and why you 575 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:54,000 have to add this and why, you know, you shouldn't add, you know, too much oil and why water, 576 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:59,160 you need to hydrate the dough and all this, you know, to cut the long story short. 577 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:04,880 And I basically used my kind of scientific head to write down the perfect strudel recipe 578 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:10,560 and I became, my strudel became really famous in my neighborhood. 579 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:16,600 So all my friends and neighbors always came for my homemade strudel and this was the backbone 580 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,040 of the desserts cookbook. 581 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:23,880 So, you know, different kinds of strudel and then we built on that. 582 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,920 You know, I think the hardest part probably, I mean, that I would think maybe for you is 583 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,920 different, but trying to translate those recipes is that you don't get exact amounts, you know, 584 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,320 it's always, oh, just a handful of this, you know, do it until it feels right. 585 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,600 It's hard to put those into measurements, you know. 586 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:41,600 Yeah. 587 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:48,200 I remember my grandma, she had this kind of big enamel dark blue bowl. 588 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:54,640 I still remember it and she would just kind of pour, I don't know, a large amount of flour 589 00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:00,040 in there, a little bit of salt and then she didn't even know how much water she put. 590 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,840 She would just be like, she would need that dough and she would, and I asked how much 591 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:09,520 water and she would say, you know, how much the flour can take. 592 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:14,080 The most direct answer you're going to get. 593 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,880 And what's the texture of the dough? 594 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:23,080 And she would say, it mustn't be too hard nor too soft. 595 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:28,560 So you were dealing with that, trying to write that into, you know, milliliters or grams. 596 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:29,560 Yeah. 597 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:30,560 Oh, that's funny. 598 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:38,840 But it was a really, really pleasurable journey for me because I started discovering like 599 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:46,560 micro-local desserts and cakes and biscuits and, you know, I traveled because I worked 600 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,880 with different tourist boards in Croatia. 601 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:55,240 I wrote a lot about, you know, different destinations in Croatia and then I interviewed 602 00:43:55,240 --> 00:44:02,480 women there and asked, you know, about the recipes and I collected a huge list of ideas, 603 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:08,400 you know, all the kind of desserts that would represent Croatian cuisine. 604 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,280 And, you know, even though like, you know, they would give me their recipe, but it was 605 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,960 sometimes they were like really sketchy and I had to kind of try and like three or four 606 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:26,800 times to bake a dessert in my kitchen until I got the recipe just right. 607 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,480 I want to paint a scenario for you and I want you to tell me, I want you to tell me which 608 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,920 recipe that you would cook. 609 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:39,480 You know, say some tourists from, it doesn't matter, any part, anywhere else other than 610 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:40,480 Croatia. 611 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,000 You know, they say, they tell you, they say, Andrea, I'm going to come over to your house, 612 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,160 we're flying to Croatia, we can only stay a night, we're just going to go to your house 613 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,400 and eat a meal and leave. 614 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,120 You know, we want to experience a traditional, something traditional. 615 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:58,680 You know, what would you make? 616 00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:59,800 What would I make? 617 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:06,520 So, I'm putting you on the spot here. 618 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:07,760 Yeah, you are. 619 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,520 So I would definitely make, this is something, okay, so I'm telling you a secret, this is 620 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,760 something that's coming out in my third cookbook. 621 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,880 So as a starter, I would make visca pogaca. 622 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:27,080 So it's basically a flat bread from vis, which is filled with anchovies. 623 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,400 And it's absolutely yummy. 624 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,320 So that would be a starter. 625 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,520 I'm a huge pescatarian, I absolutely love seafood. 626 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:42,000 So for the main course, I would make something with fish and I really, really love brudet. 627 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:54,640 So that would be like, you know, the different types of white fish like cod or red mullet. 628 00:45:54,640 --> 00:46:00,880 I would put a few prawns in there, maybe an Adriatic squid or something. 629 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,720 So it would be a really, really big fish pot with pura. 630 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:08,520 Oh, there we go. 631 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:09,520 Just for me. 632 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:15,440 And you know, for the dessert, I would definitely make a strudel because I think creation, especially 633 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,720 like sour cherry strudel is absolutely amazing. 634 00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:22,600 Wow, yeah, I'm getting hungry right now. 635 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:23,600 Yeah. 636 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,920 Might have to end this right now and go get something to eat. 637 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:32,840 Before I get too hungry, I wanted to ask one more question about food and specifically, 638 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,360 what to you or, you know, in general, you think is the importance of food within the 639 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,880 Croatian culture? 640 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:49,160 Well, we are very, very proud of our of the high quality of all the ingredients that we 641 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,280 have in Croatia. 642 00:46:51,280 --> 00:47:01,880 And there is a very, very short journey that our ingredients have to travel from, you know, 643 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,400 the, you know, farm to table concept. 644 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,560 So lots of people grow their own vegetables. 645 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:14,320 Even if you have like a tiny backyard, people will have a garden. 646 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:15,680 This is really nice. 647 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:23,800 And sometimes like people have friends who are fishermen, like especially like with freshwater 648 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:30,920 fish, like there is a type of fish that it's almost impossible to buy in a shop. 649 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,440 And then you have a friend who have a friend, you know, who is a fisherman, and then that's 650 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,720 how you procure your fish. 651 00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:39,320 He has to be connected. 652 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:40,800 Yeah, you have to be connected. 653 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,400 And it's the same thing with mushrooms. 654 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,720 Like lots of people go mushroom hunting. 655 00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:48,800 You have to have a special license now. 656 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:54,480 And I actually welcome that, you know, because it's kind of regulated now how how much mushrooms 657 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:55,760 you can pick in the forest. 658 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:56,760 Oh, really? 659 00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:01,000 You have to be educated to recognize edible mushrooms. 660 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:06,080 But it's also this kind of freshness, you know, the our ingredients grow very close 661 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,360 to where we live. 662 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:15,560 And it's also a variety of our climate, you know, we have almost three different climates 663 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:16,560 in Croatia. 664 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:22,880 There is, you know, the Mediterranean climate, the continental climate and the kind of, let's 665 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,920 say mountain climate in the middle. 666 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:33,160 So we have such diversity of food, you know, and this is only like talking about one aspect 667 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:34,480 and this is the ingredients. 668 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:40,520 The second one is, you know, that we always like to eat. 669 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:47,600 We like to enjoy the food is our enjoyment, you know, first, first and foremost, it's 670 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,040 not like that we eat to live, we live to eat. 671 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:56,040 And so we we don't mind taking our time to cook. 672 00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,120 So so many families still cook on a daily basis. 673 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,640 And we also like to eat slow. 674 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:08,200 So like on the weekend, families always, you know, eat together. 675 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,680 Lunch can last for two or three hours. 676 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:16,880 You know, people then, you know, lunch ends, but you know, coffee begins in the afternoon. 677 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:25,160 It kind of slows you down and it, you know, is like also like what's the most important 678 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,960 room in the in the house, it's the kitchen, people always get gather around the kitchen 679 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:34,000 table is the liveliest, you know, part of the house. 680 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,840 It's the heart of the family. 681 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,480 And you know, food is is that thing that kind of brings us together. 682 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,000 Yeah, I mean, that's all in my family. 683 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:47,400 That's always been a huge aspect to have life is, you know, cooking a homemade meal and 684 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,200 then sitting down and eating together as a family. 685 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,800 And I've really appreciated that as a, you know, growing up as a kid and then even now 686 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,440 being able to have the whole family together and eating, talking about the day and whatnot, 687 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:00,440 you know, things like that. 688 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,680 And I think that's, yeah, I think that's a very important part. 689 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,000 Yeah. 690 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:11,960 And this is what the people who, you know, if I invite my foreign friends to my home, 691 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:18,520 you know, and when I cook, I basically share not only the recipes and not only that food 692 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:24,640 that I serve to the table, but, you know, they also get to experience, you know, our 693 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:29,400 culture of eating and they, they're completely like impressed, you know, this, this is a 694 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,840 dish is what at the end of the dinner, they say, I want to move to Croatia. 695 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:34,840 Yeah. 696 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,680 As soon as you try the food, that's all you need to want to go over there. 697 00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:39,680 Yeah. 698 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:46,080 Andre, I wanted to ask you as we're getting towards the end here, I'm sure is your, your 699 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,480 first two cookbooks, are they available worldwide for shipping? 700 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:50,480 Yes. 701 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:51,480 Yes. 702 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,480 We basically, we have our own warehouse in Croatia. 703 00:50:55,480 --> 00:51:00,240 So it's also something that I'm proud of. 704 00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:01,920 So it's made in Croatia. 705 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:08,760 It's something that, you know, we are a family-based business and, you know, we, we do everything 706 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:09,760 ourselves. 707 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:19,400 We have a few people who we work with, like designers and printers and, but basically 708 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:27,160 we package and ship books ourselves and we work with the DHL now that, you know, they 709 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:33,480 ship express worldwide and it's really, really amazing how quickly the, you know, the books 710 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,480 arrive to their destination. 711 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:40,440 So like to the States, you know, it's like three to five business days and the book is 712 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,440 there and that's really amazing. 713 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,800 So there are no limits. 714 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,680 So we basically ship worldwide. 715 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,000 And it's very much, as you said, a local production. 716 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:51,000 Yes. 717 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,000 Yeah. 718 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,320 And I wanted to ask, I asked someone this the other day on the podcast, a similar question, 719 00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:00,920 but have you, has there been, have you had orders from any countries that you were surprised? 720 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,840 Like, oh, wow, you know, there's a Croatian or someone interested in Croatian food in 721 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,480 this country. 722 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,800 So let me answer with another question. 723 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:15,360 Are you surprised when you realize where in the world you can find creations living? 724 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:21,080 At this point, though, since I've been asking this question, though, wherever, wherever 725 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,600 there are creations living, we had orders from those places. 726 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:32,480 So it's like, you know, every single English speaking country, like from Canada, the States, 727 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:41,120 New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, also some orders to Latin America, like Patagonia, 728 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,360 you know. 729 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:49,840 I was, you know, I was really, really amazed when, when the books traveled to Tasmania, 730 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:55,920 because that's the kind of, that sounds to me like very exotic because it's so far away. 731 00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,760 But let me tell you something else. 732 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:02,600 Right now, creation desserts is on Antarctica. 733 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:03,600 No way. 734 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:04,600 Really? 735 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:05,600 How does that happen? 736 00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:06,600 Yes. 737 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:07,600 Well, I will send you photos. 738 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,600 I have a photo of the cookbook with penguins in the background. 739 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,600 Oh yeah, please send that. 740 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:21,640 So it happened because like I posted on Facebook, I said, my cookbook has traveled widely than 741 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:22,640 me. 742 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:29,200 I wish I was my cookbook and it's on every continent in the world apart from Antarctica. 743 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:37,520 And then a woman of Croatian roots who is based in Chile, she replied to me and she said, 744 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:42,760 oh, I work, I organize scientist expeditions to Antarctica, I can make it happen. 745 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,880 I will send you a book there. 746 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:45,880 Wow. 747 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,680 That's so cool. 748 00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:48,680 Yes. 749 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:55,720 So the book is on Antarctica via a Croatian connection. 750 00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:58,160 So you can get it to any continent if you have to. 751 00:53:58,160 --> 00:53:59,160 Yes, exactly. 752 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,200 Wow, that's really cool. 753 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:05,560 Well, Andrea, you know, I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast 754 00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:12,720 today and talk to us about your contributions to promoting Zagreb and Croatian culture 755 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:18,320 and your blog, Croatia Honestly, check that out and your video vlogs as well on YouTube. 756 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:22,720 And of course your cookbooks and I'm looking forward to the third one coming out. 757 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:24,720 Do you have a date? 758 00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:32,360 Well, I hope it will be by the end of this year, but still not 100% sure. 759 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:37,120 But we'll get the first two and by the time you've gone through those, the third one will 760 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:38,120 be out. 761 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:39,120 Yes. 762 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,320 All right, but yeah, thank you again so much, Andrea. 763 00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,840 You know, I really appreciate you taking the time to come on here. 764 00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:50,840 Well, thank you for inviting me again and I'm sending you greetings from Croatia to wherever 765 00:54:50,840 --> 00:55:00,440 you are in the world, everyone, and congratulations on starting the podcast. 766 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,920 That's it for today's episode of the All Things Croatia podcast. 767 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,320 Thanks for tuning in and I hope you all enjoyed it. 768 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,360 You can subscribe to the Patreon and check out the All Things Croatia Instagram page 769 00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:11,920 to stay updated. 770 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,400 Feel free to reach out to me with any questions, tips or ideas and make sure to tune back into 771 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:17,920 the next episode. 772 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:31,080 Thanks again and vide mosten.