1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,360 Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Nate. 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,040 And I'm Mike. 3 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:13,680 What are we smoking tonight Mike? 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:19,240 Well to go with our theme, we are going to smoke the Gurkha Beast. 5 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:23,200 So this looks like a Maduro, pretty similar stick to the beauty. 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:27,280 Hopefully it will please Nate more. 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,360 You know I'm all about the beast. 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Exactly. 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:36,160 You know, I was messing around with my lighter before we started recording. 10 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:37,160 As one does. 11 00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:40,840 And of course they go to light it and it's dead. 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,880 So glory, glory, I'm going to have to light it with a match, which is you know, whatever. 13 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,520 That's so old school bro. 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,000 Is Mike still around? 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,240 He's going to get his match I think. 16 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,240 I'm here and I'm lit. 17 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,560 I just didn't want to break anybody's ears. 18 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,680 Oh yeah. 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:06,960 So we're going to do an episode now of kind of Nate knows and Mike doesn't know, but Nate 20 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:12,440 also might not know, but he might also still know, but we don't know who knows what. 21 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:13,440 We good? 22 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:14,440 Yes. 23 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:15,440 We good on that? 24 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:16,440 Okay. 25 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:17,440 Oh yes. 26 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:18,440 Okay. 27 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,580 And so this is something that Mike and I have never actually talked about ever. 28 00:01:21,580 --> 00:01:25,960 As far as I know, I guess there might have been a couple of drunken nights where we maybe 29 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:27,920 touched on it, but I don't think so. 30 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,840 I don't think so. 31 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:32,840 Okay. 32 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:38,920 The topic for this episode is going to be MLMs. 33 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:39,920 MLMs. 34 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:40,920 Define. 35 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:49,560 Multi-level marketing, AKA pyramid schemes. 36 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:55,640 So are you excited or are you unexcited? 37 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,040 I am excited. 38 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,080 I don't know a whole lot about these. 39 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:04,960 I know I've heard a few, heard of a few of my time, but not that many. 40 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:05,960 I mean, I know of a few. 41 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:06,960 Yeah. 42 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:07,960 Tupperware, right? 43 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,160 Isn't Tupperware supposed to be, used to be at one time? 44 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:12,160 Yeah. 45 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:13,160 Yeah. 46 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,040 And there's a lot of them and we'll get into it. 47 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:16,760 I've got a whole list here. 48 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,480 I've found the report I was looking for. 49 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:24,600 I was looking for the FTC report on MLMs and it's nice. 50 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:31,320 It compiles all the stuff by company name and it gives you all of these stats that you 51 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:32,720 need to know. 52 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:38,960 So the other thing, and Mike, you tell them what you know about me and my Sarah. 53 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,720 What do I know about you and your Sarah? 54 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,840 That we used to be in one. 55 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,320 Oh, I didn't know that for sure. 56 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,480 I guess I didn't know that you guys were. 57 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:50,480 Yeah. 58 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:55,640 I mentioned it at one time and we didn't really talk a whole lot about it. 59 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,880 At least maybe it was too intoxicated to remember potentially. 60 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:04,560 Well, or maybe you just had the good sense right off the bat. 61 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,240 Maybe, yeah. 62 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:13,480 Not to color the outcome of ultimately what we decided about MLMs and things. 63 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:21,280 So a lot of the MLMs like to, oh, let me pull this up too. 64 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:30,520 They like to go, there was, I think it was like a 1975 to 74, it was an FTC versus Amway 65 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,920 big legal battle. 66 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:38,520 And they kind of ultimately said that it wasn't a pyramid scheme. 67 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:43,480 And so a lot of the multi-level marketing companies like to use that as kind of trying 68 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,280 to legitimize their business models. 69 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:47,280 Okay. 70 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:55,200 But for those of you who don't know, an MLM is pretty much anything that has like, you've 71 00:03:55,200 --> 00:04:00,660 got a group of people and they bring you in and you go to these meetings and they've got 72 00:04:00,660 --> 00:04:03,240 their own products usually. 73 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,960 And you switch your products to these products and then you have to go and like try and sell 74 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,760 or recruit other people. 75 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,960 And they want you to kind of burn through your contact list on your phone, your friends 76 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:19,640 and family and get them to buy from you or join you in what they would call, like air 77 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,260 quotes business. 78 00:04:21,260 --> 00:04:25,680 And they usually try and promise you like, well, if you do like X amount of work, you 79 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,880 can make X amount of money, then you wouldn't have to work at your job and you could just 80 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,120 do this full time. 81 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,640 And it's a lot of different things. 82 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,040 There's a lot of different companies. 83 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:36,420 Tupperware for sure. 84 00:04:36,420 --> 00:04:39,800 The Tupperware parties of the 80s and 90s. 85 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,960 You've got Amway, you've got Herbalife. 86 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:43,960 What is Amway? 87 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:44,960 What is one? 88 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,400 Amway is, they do a lot of home products. 89 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:56,280 And so the older generation, and this is the one that we were a part of, but they do, a 90 00:04:56,280 --> 00:05:00,160 lot of people think of them as like a soap company because they came out with like a 91 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,120 laundry detergent and that was kind of their big like seller for a long time. 92 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,320 And they do all sorts of products nowadays. 93 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,360 And we'll get into that, but they do a lot of like home cleaning and their whole thing 94 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,080 was you already use these products. 95 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:20,120 So just buy from yourself and go get some other people to buy from themselves and boom, 96 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,020 you're a millionaire. 97 00:05:22,020 --> 00:05:27,200 But Herbalife is one and that's a big one because they have kind of like the shake bars 98 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,840 or whatever, like every town's got one. 99 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:33,640 And they're a little different because you need to have a storefront to do it. 100 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,280 You have to have a storefront, you get your Herbalife and you sell your shakes and things. 101 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:40,320 Melaleuca is one. 102 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:41,320 There's a lot on here. 103 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,160 I'm just going to kind of read off the ones that I've heard of. 104 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,160 Yeah, Tupperware is on here. 105 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:57,120 Melaleuca, Shackly, I don't know, they got AirBond International, Cyberwise, EcoQuest, 106 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:05,720 FHTM, FreeLife, Ignite, ImmunoTech, Inet Global, Isagenix, Isagenix I think is a big one now 107 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:17,680 with Younger Generation, Manatech, Melaleuca, MonoV, MXI, Nikken, New Skin, Relive, SendOut, 108 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:25,440 SendOut Cards, Sunrider, Symmetry, Tahishin Nani, sounds super legit, and USANA. 109 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:32,200 I'm sure there's more, WorldVentures, Zango, Your Health, Your Travel, and that's kind 110 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:33,200 of it. 111 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,640 I mean, I'm sure there's, I mean, they're kind of like a dime a dozen, right? 112 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:38,640 Sure. 113 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,760 So like is a Sensei or a Norwex or one of those. 114 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:43,760 Those are basically. 115 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:44,760 Yes. 116 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:45,760 Yep. 117 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:46,760 Those are those. 118 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,880 And they also have, and this would be something that you or your sir might know, is they 119 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,040 have MLMs for even like press on nails. 120 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:55,720 Okay. 121 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,160 So basically anything you could think of that you could sell, there's probably an MLM that 122 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,160 sells that. 123 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:02,160 Sure. 124 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,360 She used to do candle light or something like that. 125 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:06,360 Okay. 126 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:07,720 And I bet you that's one of them. 127 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,560 And I guess Mary Kay and Avon maybe? 128 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:10,560 Oh yeah. 129 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:11,560 Oh yeah. 130 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,520 I don't know why Mary Kay and Avon aren't on here, but those are totally MLMs. 131 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:15,520 Sure. 132 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:16,520 Pampered Chef. 133 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:17,520 Pampered Chef. 134 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:18,520 Yep. 135 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:19,520 For sure. 136 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:20,520 Weird. 137 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:21,520 And I don't know why this is another one. 138 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:22,520 Okay. 139 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:23,520 So they're not necessarily not selling good stuff. 140 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,160 It's a different sort of business model. 141 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,400 So the business model for multi-level marketing, and it means marketing, right? 142 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,200 So you're selling something and it's basically that there are different tiers that you can 143 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,880 get to different levels of performance. 144 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:45,080 And at the different levels of performance, you get different compensation based on the 145 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,960 people below you and what they've sold. 146 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:48,960 Yes. 147 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:55,400 So in the sense of all in all business and how this stuff kind of works, is it pretty 148 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,440 much works like your nine to five job, right? 149 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,920 You support the salespeople or you support the customers and the salespeople make all 150 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,240 the money because they're out doing it, but they really don't make all the money and the 151 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,560 CEOs make all the money and you don't. 152 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:14,960 So like C-suite and above makes it, but they try and build these as more approachable to 153 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,760 like anyone can do this. 154 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,760 The whole point though is you have to have, and I can only speak for Amway because that's 155 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:23,880 what we were involved in. 156 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,200 And they had, and a lot of these MLMs, especially if they're bigger and have been around for 157 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:36,240 a long time, they have kind of these training groups or subgroups that operate within these 158 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:42,400 MLMs and they're sanctioned by the MLM governance board or whatever. 159 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,920 And they are just kind of like methods of training. 160 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,480 And so all of your training support comes from this, I can't remember what they're called, 161 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:55,080 but it's like a sub, like it's its own kind of like organization within the MLM. 162 00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:01,420 And there were two big ones within Amway and they had similar but different training modules 163 00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:08,840 and they kind of do their own functions and events as separate groups within the company. 164 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:09,840 Right? 165 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,160 So it kind of depends, like you, I mean, you could just straight up go to Amway and be 166 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,720 like, Hey man, I want in and I want to be a thing. 167 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,160 And they just assign you to some random, what they would call an upline, right? 168 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,120 Like someone who sponsors you in business. 169 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,260 So all of your work would go under that person. 170 00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:28,840 And then if you got somebody in all of their work would count for your stuff. 171 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,980 And there's different ways that they tabulate these numbers. 172 00:09:31,980 --> 00:09:35,200 So and they'll all tell you something different, right? 173 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:40,680 They'll tell you, Hey, you get in, you get your family to buy and you get like 10 of 174 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:46,240 your 20 friends or whatever to sell some stuff on their own or buy from themselves. 175 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,240 And then you've got the right parameters and you can make a couple grand a month and then 176 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,760 we'll get you up to make in, you know, significantly more than that. 177 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,200 I mean, that's kind of always the promise, right? 178 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,200 Right. 179 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,480 That's the, that's the walk in the door type of deal. 180 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:00,480 Yeah. 181 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:01,480 Yeah. 182 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:02,480 And like, what is it? 183 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:03,480 It's like Cutco, right? 184 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,280 Like they're an MLM, the knives, the kitchen knives, because you go in and you can buy 185 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,640 knives and then they're like, Hey, did you know you could actually like pay less for 186 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,800 the set of knives if you sold a set of knives as well? 187 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,200 So I mean, there's a lot of them out there and a lot of them seem like they're a legit 188 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,480 storefront and like they're a legit store, like Target or Walmart that you'd go into 189 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,240 and buy goods and then just leave. 190 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:28,460 But they're an MLM. 191 00:10:28,460 --> 00:10:33,280 So they also try to get you to sell extra stuff for them when you make a purchase. 192 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:34,280 Sure. 193 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:39,400 I've never had that experience with buying from the Mary Kay lady or whatever. 194 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,800 Not that I've ever, I don't think I've ever purchased Mary Kay literally, but I bought 195 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,320 Pampered Chef stuff, you know? 196 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,320 Oh, and I bought Pampered Chef stuff too. 197 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,760 And you know, some of them are a little more subtle about it. 198 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,960 Like the Pampered Chef is like, usually it's like, Hey, we're hosting a party for so and 199 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,520 so, right? 200 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,120 And that so and so is your friend. 201 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,560 And you go there and they're like, Oh yeah, here's my Mary Kay lady. 202 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:03,880 Well, the Mary Kay lady is giving a discount based on how many people buy stuff to the 203 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,720 person that's hosting the Mary Kay party or the Pampered Chef party. 204 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:08,720 Right? 205 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,800 So they get a, they get a cut. 206 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,400 So like if, if their party performs at this level, they get a 10% discount. 207 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,160 If it performs at that level, they get a 20% discount and so on and so forth. 208 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:23,800 Even though the host of the party isn't necessarily selling Pampered Chef, but they're incentivized 209 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,280 to have people come that would buy Pampered Chef stuff so that they can get the same Pampered 210 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,220 Chef stuff for cheaper. 211 00:11:30,220 --> 00:11:33,920 And if you notice, like I still get emails from the one Pampered Chef party I went to 212 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,780 and she's like, I'm doing a big Pampered Chef sale right now. 213 00:11:36,780 --> 00:11:40,360 So you can like direct buy or you can do a party or even at the bottom of the email, 214 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,400 it's like, if you want to learn how to make money selling Pampered Chef, let me know. 215 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,120 Like I'm happy to help you. 216 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,720 So some are a little more aggressive on recruiting than others. 217 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:48,720 Right? 218 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,720 So I mean, it's a, it's a wide swath. 219 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,840 And even within some of these organizations, it's a wide swath of whether they focus primarily 220 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:02,920 on training and maximizing the, what you would call like the profit schedule or something 221 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,240 or the profit charts, or if they just go heavy on recruiting or whatever they do. 222 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,360 Like, you know, all of these training organizations within these companies have different, different 223 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:13,360 MOs. 224 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:14,360 Sure. 225 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:15,360 Yeah. 226 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,360 Yeah. 227 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,360 Interesting. 228 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,840 I met quite a few of these people that sell, let's say Norwexer, Pampered Chef and all 229 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:21,840 this stuff. 230 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:27,000 Like most of them are just in it so they can get a quick discount on buying Norwex towels. 231 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,200 And once my sister-in-law did that, when she got her damn discount to buy towel, she bought 232 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,720 a whole set of them for the house and then she stopped doing it immediately. 233 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,760 That's all she wanted. 234 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,280 And you know, and there's people that do it that way too. 235 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,800 And you know, it's kind of like, it depends on who you're kind of connected with. 236 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,840 And you know, I mean, we sat down and I was super skeptical at the time. 237 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:52,480 This is around the time that Mike and I butted heads, but they just started talking about 238 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,520 like, you know, having your own thing and being able to kind of set your own stuff and 239 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:02,120 you know, like however hard you work, you get paid for and you know, all that stuff 240 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,120 kind of sounded good. 241 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,120 Like it didn't sound bad. 242 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,680 And we went to some of the meetings and they're kind of like, you know, you should give every 243 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:11,480 kind of business venture kind of like five years. 244 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,960 And you know, because you're not going to see profits in the first year, even if you 245 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,840 start like a traditional business, right? 246 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,320 Like it's going to take a bit of time to generate income. 247 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,880 And so, and then it seemed like everybody was surprised when after five years, we're 248 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,240 like, now we're out, we're done. 249 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,080 Like we're not making anything off of it. 250 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,440 And we can go into more, we'll go into more of that stuff in a little bit. 251 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,820 But I mean, that's just, there's so many of these companies out there and I'm not trying 252 00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:42,680 to say that they're not like legit, but the kind of the thing that got us in was anybody 253 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:44,520 can do this and it's super easy. 254 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,240 You just switch your products from the, you know, like, and a lot of people buy the Target 255 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,520 brand or the seventh generation or they buy the Walmart brand or they buy the generic 256 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,500 brand of whatever, the store brand of these things, right? 257 00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:59,700 Because it's a little bit cheaper and they're like, we'll just buy your brand. 258 00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:03,840 You know, we set you up with the Amway shop and you got your Amway products and you just 259 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,800 buy those instead of the ones there. 260 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:11,240 And then you get like 15 other people to do that over the course of, you know, three years, 261 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:12,980 two years, whatever it is. 262 00:14:12,980 --> 00:14:18,480 And then you're making, you know, 75K a year from this. 263 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:23,680 And you know, and just to be clear, because I don't want to get like prosecuted or anything, 264 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,200 nobody ever really like promised or guaranteed income. 265 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,200 You know what I mean? 266 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,680 Like it was more of a, if you can hit these performance parameters, you can make this 267 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,360 amount of money, blah, blah, blah. 268 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,360 Right? 269 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:35,360 So there's extra stuff there. 270 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,280 It wasn't just, if you can get 15 people in, you're making 75K. 271 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:40,840 There's other, there's like parameters. 272 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:46,640 So I felt they were like the group that we were with was fairly transparent with what 273 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,560 that stuff would entail or what you would need to do to do it. 274 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,920 Otherwise, I wouldn't have been interested at all because I don't like, I'm not about 275 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:55,920 that. 276 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,720 And I guess what we kind of found out was their whole thing was like, anybody could 277 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:00,720 do this. 278 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:01,720 But it makes sense, right? 279 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,940 Like if everybody could just do it, you just, you just change your point of purchase and 280 00:15:05,940 --> 00:15:06,940 you're good. 281 00:15:06,940 --> 00:15:08,960 And you get a couple other people to do that and you're good. 282 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,000 Well, that's not how it goes. 283 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,880 As you're dealing with people and you know, and a lot of the stuff they kind of taught 284 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:22,140 was like super would, would if we would have gone full out with it, could have driven huge 285 00:15:22,140 --> 00:15:24,760 wedges between a lot of our friendships. 286 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:25,760 You know what I mean? 287 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,240 Like it was kind of like a, you're either with us or it was, it was almost very cultish. 288 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:31,420 Interesting. 289 00:15:31,420 --> 00:15:35,120 Which wasn't, it wasn't a huge, huge deal because you know, they would say, well, you're 290 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:36,120 a business owner. 291 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,340 If you don't want to do that, you don't do that. 292 00:15:37,340 --> 00:15:44,120 So they weren't really like pushing anything, but it got really, really weird. 293 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:49,720 In the first, I can't remember which election, what the 2016 probably was that the Trump 294 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:50,720 when Trump won? 295 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,520 Yeah, that was 16. 296 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:53,520 Yep. 297 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:54,520 Yeah. 298 00:15:54,520 --> 00:16:00,180 Because they always said that they had a policy at this subgroup that they wouldn't preach 299 00:16:00,180 --> 00:16:08,400 politics or religion from stage and yet they had a, an organizational sanctioned pastor 300 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,400 on staff that they paid. 301 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:17,680 And they had one of the, one of the multimillionaires allegedly on stage saying, I can't tell you 302 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,620 who to vote for, but I know we can all make America great again. 303 00:16:21,620 --> 00:16:24,200 And they had, and I can talk about this guy. 304 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:31,400 They had this Rick Green twat come and talk to us and say that all the founding fathers 305 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,120 were Christian. 306 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,720 And he prefaced it by saying, he prefaced it by saying, the atheist will tell you that 307 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,280 the founding fathers weren't Christian, but I'm here to assure you that they are. 308 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,540 And of course, being an atheist, I was like, okay. 309 00:16:43,540 --> 00:16:47,840 And he runs like a freedom ranch or something and he has all these kids get sent to him 310 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,000 and he teaches them the constitution. 311 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,560 And if you can't hear my air quotes, I'm mentioning them now because, you know, and it's like, 312 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,480 but what, what does this have to do with me getting, you know, out of my job and not having 313 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:02,680 to work? 314 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,760 And it was that kind of stuff that really kind of like finished it for me because I'm 315 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,000 like, cause you're supposed to recruit people and you know what? 316 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,720 I mean, part of life is if you're passionate about something, you're going to recruit people. 317 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,240 If you want to start your own business, whether it's an MLM or a bookstore or a whatever it 318 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:19,240 is, right? 319 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,160 You're going to have to recruit people or like sell people on it. 320 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:27,480 But it got to the point where I was like, these people are so fucking religious and 321 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,280 conservative about their opinions and all of this stuff that I honestly could not in 322 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,680 good conscious or conscience introduce them to anybody. 323 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,200 Even some random person I fucking met because it was like, it was getting to the point where 324 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,480 like you're supposed to do these kind of meet and greets and you bring your sponsor, your 325 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,500 sponsor, sponsor or somebody, right? 326 00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:48,400 Somebody upline from you. 327 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,600 And they would like, they would start like quoting the fucking Bible. 328 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,040 And it's like, we're just trying to qualify these people. 329 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,000 We're not even trying to like, like why would anybody want to go into business? 330 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,240 Somebody who's quoting the fucking Bible. 331 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,520 Like I understand you think it's a great like freedom of speech thing, but like my God, 332 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,840 this amway sell fucking soap then. 333 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:06,840 Well, yeah. 334 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:07,840 It was. 335 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:13,120 So what the, what does Jesus and conservative politics have to do with soap soap? 336 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:14,540 Shouldn't they be selling the soap? 337 00:18:14,540 --> 00:18:15,920 Isn't that like the goal here? 338 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:21,600 Yeah, but what I'm saying is these, these training, these training groups that are sanctioned 339 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:22,600 by Amway, right? 340 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:28,280 So it depends on which training group you get kind of like associated or roped into 341 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,080 why aren't they training you on the benefits of the soap? 342 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:32,080 You know what I mean? 343 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,200 Or like they're, but they're trying to, but so like, so the one that we were part of, 344 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,500 I'm not going to mention it because I don't even know what, like I know they have lawyers 345 00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:43,720 and I know they've told us that they've gone after other people that have tried to disclose 346 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:49,280 their proprietary information, but they focus more on the training and less on the products. 347 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,280 They're like, you know, you guys know what soap is. 348 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:53,480 Soap is fucking soap. 349 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,200 You buy the soap from fucking Amway and you make money if you can get other people to 350 00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:59,920 buy the soap from fucking Amway. 351 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,160 Like I don't need to tell you the soap is great. 352 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,480 It's as good as the other soap out there, you know, like, so they wouldn't really do 353 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,400 a whole lot of the product demos, right? 354 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:12,280 Which I liked like honestly, but then they started getting like really religious and 355 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,920 conservative and I was kind of like, I don't really want anybody to come here and talk 356 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:22,360 to you because even in your functions, when you're supposed to be talking about, you know, 357 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:28,040 living the dream and how to talk to people about this thing, you're still bringing up 358 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:35,000 God and conservative America and it's not relevant to what's going on. 359 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,200 And it's kind of what we talked about in some of our other episodes, like whatever you want 360 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,360 to do in your bedroom, it's fine. 361 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:41,760 I don't need to hear about it at work. 362 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,120 Like I don't, I'm not interested in it. 363 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:45,120 I don't care. 364 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:46,280 I am an introvert. 365 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,640 I don't need to know. 366 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:48,640 I don't need to know how you vote. 367 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,400 I don't need to know what you eat for dinner. 368 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:51,400 Doesn't matter to me. 369 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,880 You know, like all of that stuff and they just kind of like ended up taking it too far 370 00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:00,440 and the Trump stuff only made it worse, you know, so. 371 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:01,440 That's crazy. 372 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:09,480 Well, in their defense, the Trumpers and the Christians don't really have the wherewithal 373 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,400 to understand that there are people who are different than them because they really do 374 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:14,400 live in a bubble. 375 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:15,400 Oh, I understand that. 376 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,480 People that think like them. 377 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,720 And that's a lot of it too. 378 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:25,840 You know, the purple haired people, they also live in that bubble and everybody is just 379 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,280 like them, you know. 380 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:28,280 Yeah. 381 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:32,280 They can't understand how somebody could be radically different, you know. 382 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:33,280 Yeah. 383 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:39,440 And to be fair, I mean, they had some homosexuals that had advanced through the ranks, I guess. 384 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,600 And they would put them on stage, but they were also very Christian. 385 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,520 So it was kind of one of those things where it's like, as long as you love Christ, do 386 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,280 whatever you want to do. 387 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,280 But we want you up on stage. 388 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,680 Were they openly homosexuals or were they classed homosexuals? 389 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,360 No, they were open. 390 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:54,960 It was two women. 391 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:55,960 OK. 392 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:56,960 OK. 393 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,040 You know, so I'm just saying like in their defense, right, like there was two women up 394 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,040 there. 395 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,080 There were a couple and they were like, yep, we did all the work and we did all this and 396 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,360 Jesus and we thank Jesus for helping us with all the work. 397 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:11,240 And so, you know, it's kind of like one of those double standards where it's like, are 398 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,240 you really? 399 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,320 And so they were they were purposefully trying to be more diverse. 400 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,320 Right. 401 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,080 But it was a little too too late, a little too little too late or whatever it is. 402 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,080 Right. 403 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,960 You know, and so it just was kind of a thing. 404 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,920 And like we gave it a really good shot and it just didn't pan out. 405 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:34,360 And right after we we kind of like we didn't renew, like it wasn't like we quit. 406 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:37,840 But most of the people that we associated with during that time haven't really reached 407 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,000 out or talked to us. 408 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,760 So and they were all like, hey, we're building this great friendship and whatever. 409 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:47,560 And then it's like, yeah, but the organization kind of sucks and it's kind of like super 410 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:54,800 not inclusive, which is weird for, you know, like a white male to say. 411 00:21:54,800 --> 00:22:00,160 But you know, like if you're not a white conservative male who loves Jesus, then it's not inclusive. 412 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:01,800 Sounds a lot like a cult. 413 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:02,800 I know you said that before. 414 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:03,800 No, I know. 415 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:04,800 I know. 416 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,240 This seems why is it so cult like it's just they're selling. 417 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,480 It doesn't have to be. 418 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:10,480 It doesn't have to be. 419 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:11,480 Right. 420 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:12,480 It wouldn't have to be. 421 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,920 And so that's that was kind of our biggest disconnect was they were kind of their whole 422 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:22,400 this training organizations whole like motto was you're in business for yourself and we're 423 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,200 going to teach you the business skills. 424 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,860 And they had, you know, business book reading lists and a lot of them were religious for 425 00:22:28,860 --> 00:22:30,380 whatever reason. 426 00:22:30,380 --> 00:22:36,520 And so I didn't like a lot of those and they kept bringing in all this weird personal stuff. 427 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,640 And I'm like, business should be business. 428 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:43,000 Like why should I care if somebody that I'm in business with is a homosexual or an atheist 429 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,600 or a Christian or Catholic or a Jew? 430 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,880 Like it doesn't matter as long as they do what they say they're going to do. 431 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:48,880 Right. 432 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,160 Like you judge the character, you don't judge the other the other stuff. 433 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:58,600 You know, do you think it was a front for like some weird pastor type situation or was 434 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,600 it no they only had the one. 435 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,560 And they didn't give a shit what they were saying. 436 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:03,560 I don't know. 437 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,640 I feel like it was one of those things where they felt like they were helping and they 438 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:07,880 were spreading God's word. 439 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:14,840 And it was one of those things where the popularity of Amway has kind of gone up and down. 440 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:15,840 Right. 441 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,320 So when all the people that were speaking on stage got in and made all their money in 442 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,760 it like the getting in was good. 443 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:23,760 Right. 444 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,560 And it was easy to get other people in. 445 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,080 And because it was easy to get people in, everybody had great success. 446 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:35,800 And these people made made it to like the millionaire and beyond level every year income. 447 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:42,160 And then there's a huge tanking of Amway in the in the 90s and 2000s, early 2000s. 448 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,720 And nobody wanted to be in it because it was a whole big thing. 449 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,440 And they tried to like rebrand as quick start with the age of the Internet. 450 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,080 And then that didn't work because that doesn't even make any sense because it's spelled Q 451 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,800 U I X T A R like the fuck is that about? 452 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:02,080 And that tanked so hard that they abandoned that and went back to Amway or like renamed 453 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,840 you know, like unrenamed themselves. 454 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:11,120 And then they got a very terrible reputation as door to door soap salesman. 455 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:12,120 Right. 456 00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:14,040 And they sell a lot more than soap and they do vitamins and whatever. 457 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:21,920 And they've got all these acres and acres and acres of organic, non insecticide, whatever 458 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,880 shit. 459 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,960 And they're all certified vitamins like out in California and stuff. 460 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:27,960 But you know, like whatever. 461 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,880 I mean, they've got all this stuff and you could, you know, you can talk about the products. 462 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,200 You could talk about whatever. 463 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,000 And it's like, I feel like if it was a little more like products like, hey, man, products, 464 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,360 you want some, you don't want some, whatever. 465 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,480 But yeah, it got like really kind of weird because they have like a resident pastor that 466 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,360 would come and speak. 467 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:49,920 And I don't know, you know, and John and I don't know if you've heard of John Maxwell. 468 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,400 He writes a ton of like business self-help books. 469 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,760 I've never heard of him. 470 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:54,760 All right. 471 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:55,760 And he does good writing. 472 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:01,040 He's a really good writer and I like a lot of his books and I never would have heard 473 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,460 of him outside of this, but he would speak a lot of times. 474 00:25:04,460 --> 00:25:05,460 Never in person at ours. 475 00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:09,640 He'd go speak somewhere where he was at and then they'd record it and play back for us. 476 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,640 But like, you know, he seems like a good writer and he knows what he's talking about. 477 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,260 He pumps out an awful lot of books though. 478 00:25:15,260 --> 00:25:17,400 So you kind of have to wonder. 479 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,680 But you know, so do other people like whatever, anybody, anyone, anyone of those people. 480 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:23,680 Yeah. 481 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:24,680 I mean, they pump out a lot of books. 482 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,680 So, but yeah. 483 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:26,840 So, and I'm not a huge Stephen King fan. 484 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,080 We've talked about that, I think. 485 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,080 Stephen King is weird. 486 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,760 Like I enjoy Stephen King until he gets to the point where he has to bring in that one 487 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,760 extra thing, right? 488 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,840 Like he gets a really good like horror story going and you're like, holy shit, holy shit. 489 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,560 And then he's like, yeah, so you were terrified of that clown and it, but here's a giant fucking 490 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:47,560 spider for no reason. 491 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:54,160 And you're like, oh, okay, Stephen, that's out of left field. 492 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,160 Thanks I guess. 493 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,160 Yeah. 494 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:03,160 But what I always find is that it's more about the path, the journey. 495 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,760 His books never finish well. 496 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:06,760 They're never satisfying. 497 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:07,760 Not at all. 498 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,840 You know, and I'm never satisfying ever. 499 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,880 And I think he does it on purpose. 500 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:13,880 He might. 501 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,000 I don't know. 502 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,000 I think so. 503 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:21,960 So I wanted to get into some of these stats because this is a federal trade commission 504 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,560 report that they did on all of these different MLMs. 505 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,080 So let's just, we'll start with Amway, right? 506 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:35,680 And so they've all got these different levels that you come in and they're producer levels, 507 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:36,680 right? 508 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,600 If you can produce X number of whatever production unit they use. 509 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:47,160 So for Amway they use a PV and a BV, so it was like a personal volume and a business 510 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,160 volume. 511 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,480 And the personal volume is what you yourself use and generate. 512 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,580 And the business volume is you plus anyone you've sponsored in business, right? 513 00:26:57,580 --> 00:27:00,920 So any of your downline. 514 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:08,280 And the interesting thing is that for the longest time when we were in, the Amway thing 515 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:14,520 was you had to have 50 points of customer volume, right? 516 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:19,440 And so it's a little less than one for one with like dollar. 517 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,720 So you'd probably have to sell about 75 to a hundred dollars depending on what they bought 518 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:31,100 and what the markup was or the, you know, the profit of these things were in customer 519 00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:37,620 volume in order to hit that 50, 50 customer volume to qualify for the additional bonus 520 00:27:37,620 --> 00:27:44,000 levels to actually get paid by Amway for selling stuff outside of just getting your discount, 521 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,000 right? 522 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,000 Sure. 523 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000 So that makes sense. 524 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,480 You have to sell, you have to have a customer, not a business person or somebody that wants 525 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,000 to also sell and make money, but you have to have enough customers buying, let's just 526 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,720 say soap or, you know, Pampered Chef stuff or Mary Kay stuff or whatever it is, like 527 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,320 buying the product as to equal a certain amount to get paid. 528 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:09,800 Well, the, I think Congress ruled just recently that something like 50% of your total volume 529 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:16,160 had to be customer volume, which is a drastic change because the group I was with said, 530 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,680 okay, you need the 50 customer volume to qualify for all the stuff. 531 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,600 So you go out and you get 50, you get 75, whatever you get, you know, like a hundred 532 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,760 or less, somewhere between 50 and a hundred customer volume. 533 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,480 And then you can, and then you make bank and then you just recruit people and you teach 534 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:36,040 them how to get that, that bare minimum 50 every month and you're on your way to making 535 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,040 bank. 536 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,600 Well, then the government came out and of course the big selling point was, well, Amway's 537 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,800 got people connected to the government and they were super excited about that DeVos lady 538 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,620 because she's a family member of Rich DeVos who founded Amway, right? 539 00:28:51,620 --> 00:28:55,040 And so they were thought they were sitting pretty and the point is the government will 540 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,720 fuck anything it can. 541 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,800 And it was Amway's turn and they said, you got to have at least 50 or 60% customer volume 542 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,360 to be a legitimate business in the eyes of the government or we're going to deem you 543 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:05,400 like a pyramid scheme. 544 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:11,440 So Amway had to change their payout compensation to say, well, now you have to have 50% of 545 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:18,720 your total volume or whatever be customer, not just the 50 customer points. 546 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:19,720 You know what I mean? 547 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:25,240 So it's like the whole talk was you want to be in business for yourself because nobody 548 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,080 can change the deal on you. 549 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,440 And then right before we decided not to renew the government's like, guess what? 550 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,120 We're changing the deal on you. 551 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,000 You know, so it kind of like, I mean, I understand the government, but it was funny that these 552 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,000 people didn't. 553 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,680 Well, Betsy DeVos was an absolute moron. 554 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:42,680 Oh yeah. 555 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:48,600 So it doesn't surprise me that her family fortune was won through a scam. 556 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,960 Well, not according to the FTC ruling, it wasn't a scam. 557 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,520 Yeah, okay. 558 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:03,360 So and I think the point here is that we need to clarify a little bit. 559 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,080 This is not the pyramid scheme of sending money in for nothing and then getting money 560 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,200 back, right? 561 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:14,400 Like Bernie Madoff or whatever, where it's like, hey, give me $1,000 and you're going 562 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:15,400 to get back $5,000. 563 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:21,400 Like, it's not that there's actual product in all of these cases like Herbalife, Shackley, 564 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:28,760 Alaluca, Amway, Cutco, Pampered Chef, Tupperware, there's actual product, right? 565 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,040 Like you're not, you're still getting something and if you're paying extra for it, fine. 566 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:40,060 If you want to pay an annual due and try and make money off of it, you can, right? 567 00:30:40,060 --> 00:30:41,520 You can try that. 568 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,440 It's not fully the same thing. 569 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,560 But it's also not a store. 570 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,120 It's also not a store and even the Herbalife stores, right, and the Cutco stores, they 571 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,120 have store fronts. 572 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,120 You can go into a store and buy these things, but you can just interact with them as if 573 00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,880 they were a store. 574 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:04,160 Or if they talk to you and you're interested, they could try and help you set up your own 575 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,540 store, right? 576 00:31:05,540 --> 00:31:06,540 Or you work for their store. 577 00:31:06,540 --> 00:31:09,980 I don't know how it all works with some of these other ones, but you know, you've got 578 00:31:09,980 --> 00:31:12,240 your own like web store, right? 579 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,840 That is like amway.com slash nice ashes or whatever it would be, right? 580 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,620 Or herbalife.com slash get the grind on or something. 581 00:31:23,620 --> 00:31:29,840 And whatever profits there were would go to you instead of straight to Herbalife or Amway 582 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,260 or whatever it might be. 583 00:31:31,260 --> 00:31:33,440 So it's not a full on like scam. 584 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,200 I mean, if you can make it work, you could actually make some money off of it and people 585 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,200 have. 586 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,560 But I think the big caveat is a lot of these companies have people to try and recruit you 587 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,160 and say, anybody could do this. 588 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,940 Here's how easy it is. 589 00:31:48,940 --> 00:31:53,160 And the fact of the matter is, it's not easy at all and not everybody can do it. 590 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,600 And it really depends. 591 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,700 It's very circumstantial, very circumstantial. 592 00:31:57,700 --> 00:32:01,980 You can learn the best sales pitch in the world and it's very circumstantial because 593 00:32:01,980 --> 00:32:04,080 not everybody's a salesperson, right? 594 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,320 And you could be a salesperson wherever you work right now. 595 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,520 You could be a salesperson and you could not make it right. 596 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,600 Because some people don't like working under quotas and you're not going to get fired from 597 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,720 Amway or Herbalife or any of these places. 598 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:16,720 You're not going to get fired. 599 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,640 You're just not going to make money. 600 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,560 The majority of your money at Amway you're making is by convincing other people to sell 601 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,560 Amway. 602 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:25,560 Yeah, for sure. 603 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,680 We're convincing other people to convince other people. 604 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,460 That's where the pyramid scheme part comes in. 605 00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:36,280 It's not coming in by selling 20,000 pump bottles for Pampered Chef. 606 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,160 That's trying to convince other people to sell Pampered Chef. 607 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,160 Yeah. 608 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,120 And I mean, it's set up that way. 609 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,600 It's more profitable for the company and then they have to disclose how people make money 610 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,200 and some people do and some people don't. 611 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,640 And there's a whole MLM nonprofit organization that ranks all these things too. 612 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,760 So I mean, there's a lot of data out there to be had. 613 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:57,760 Sure. 614 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,200 I'll tell you what, I have the spritzer for Pampered Chef. 615 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,880 Everybody that's listening, if you don't have one, go buy it. 616 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:04,880 It's fucking phenomenal. 617 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:05,880 I have two of them. 618 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:11,000 I don't know how much I like to think. 619 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:18,800 We have a Stoneware loaf pan and a Stoneware pizza pan from Pampered Chef and they're great. 620 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:19,800 Stoneware is awesome. 621 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,280 I mean, you could get Stoneware anywhere, I'm sure, but whatever. 622 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,280 These are great. 623 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,440 So this is not, Pampered Chef is not a sponsor. 624 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,440 No, Pampered Chef is not a sponsor and Norwex makes some incredible towels. 625 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,600 My hiking towels and my camping towels are Norwex and they're phenomenal. 626 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,280 Like a little tiny square does it all. 627 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,280 Sorry. 628 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,760 I mean, that's the weird thing, right? 629 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,360 It's like some of these products are really good. 630 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,200 And that's the whole thing is like, hey, this product is really good or like this product 631 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,800 is as good as the other products. 632 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,520 So why not just use this product and get other people to use it and you can make some money. 633 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,160 Like it's super tempting, right? 634 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,120 And they say anybody can do it. 635 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,160 But the fact of the matter is like not everybody can do it. 636 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:05,080 You could, there are some, I don't know who, but like, it's like, you know, no matter how 637 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:11,760 good a salesperson you are, you could not sell water to a dehydrated person in a desert, 638 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,280 like a hundred percent of the time, right? 639 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,840 Like you're not going to close that sale a hundred percent of the time, right? 640 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:16,840 Because people, right? 641 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,480 Like just people in general. 642 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:24,640 So I mean, that's kind of a big thing, but I think looking at the statistics here are 643 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,160 going to be very, very eye opening. 644 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,980 We need to talk about the cigar cause I'm over halfway. 645 00:34:29,980 --> 00:34:30,980 We do. 646 00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:33,520 I'm, I'm just about to pull, peel off the beast sticker. 647 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,520 Oh, see it. 648 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,440 I have three and a half inches left, something like that. 649 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,680 Well, I've been talking. 650 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:40,680 God damn it. 651 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:41,680 I know. 652 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:42,680 I like this one. 653 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:43,680 I like this one too. 654 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,080 This one's been really good. 655 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,080 It's flavorful. 656 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:51,320 I've got about four inches left, three, three and a quarter, three and three quarters. 657 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:52,720 So I'm not too far behind you. 658 00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:53,920 Yeah, this was good. 659 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:54,920 This is better. 660 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:55,920 Better than the V8. 661 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:56,920 This is so much better. 662 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:57,920 Yeah. 663 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:58,920 Yeah. 664 00:34:58,920 --> 00:34:59,920 Yeah. 665 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:00,920 So much better. 666 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:01,920 Yeah. 667 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:02,920 Yeah. 668 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:03,920 This, I mean, so far I would recommend it for anybody. 669 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:04,920 It's me as well. 670 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:05,920 Uh, okay. 671 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,680 So I've pulled up and it's a 40 page report. 672 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,160 I'm going to now read to you verbatim the full 40 pages. 673 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,800 Uh, I'm just kidding. 674 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,800 This one, I'm going to, I'm going to say this and I'll put this report in the, in the link 675 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,880 or in the description of the episode. 676 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:26,720 This is chapter seven of a, of a full it's, it's called the case for and against multi-level 677 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:32,720 marketing by John M. Taylor, uh, MBA, PhD, consumer awareness Institute. 678 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:39,120 And this is hosted on the ftc.gov site and, and chapter seven apparently is 40 pages long, 679 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,840 uh, which is great. 680 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:41,960 Thank you, John. 681 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,360 But they, what they do here is they bring in, okay. 682 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:46,880 This is the page that I wanted. 683 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,840 This is the chart that I was most interested in. 684 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,480 And this is, they've got the MLM company and year of average earnings report that they 685 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,480 pulled. 686 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,120 And these are all, you know, 2001 to 2009. 687 00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,120 Okay. 688 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,680 So this is a little bit old, some older data, but I don't know how often they do this. 689 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:03,680 This kind of stuff. 690 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:10,360 Uh, and then they do estimated minimum annual costs for effective recruitment campaign, 691 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:17,000 which means how much money are you out to try and be active in the business? 692 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,740 And that's the big kicker is there are people that sign up just to get the discount. 693 00:36:21,740 --> 00:36:27,080 And that does not mean they're actively trying to do the business per like IRS tax laws or 694 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:28,080 some or something. 695 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,080 Right. 696 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,920 They kind of like, like our last episode, their stats and they have to qualify these 697 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,840 stats because if they took everybody involved, the stance are terrible. 698 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,680 But if they take people that are actively trying to build it, they're not as terrible. 699 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:41,680 Right. 700 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:42,680 Yep. 701 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,960 Because some people go to the gym just to use the shower, um, massage chairs. 702 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,080 But anyway, yeah. 703 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,600 So and it goes by company. 704 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,840 So I don't want to necessarily go through all of the companies, but I can kind of tell 705 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,200 you, I'm just going to kind of go general for this. 706 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,600 And if there's something that leaps out at me as I'm kind of going through here, then 707 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,080 we can kind of dig into it a little bit. 708 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,200 So the estimated minimum annual costs for effective recruitment campaign, this is how 709 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:16,760 much you're going to kind of like lose money or spend money or ha ha ha as a business person 710 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,820 would tell you how much money you're going to invest to get a big return. 711 00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:28,120 And so it looks like on this first page here, and we actually has the least annual cost 712 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:33,480 to try and grow your business and make, make bank doing so. 713 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,520 And I just scrolled down and so Amway comes in at the lowest amount of money out of pocket 714 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,480 to run an effective recruitment campaign. 715 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,600 So you have to have product on hand to demo. 716 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,200 You have to have materials on hand to show because they have legal requirements. 717 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,840 If you're trying to sign somebody up in business, you have to have the legal documents from 718 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:52,840 the company. 719 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,680 You have to present them with all the information, right? 720 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,160 You can't, you can't be a fly by night person. 721 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,480 I mean, you can, but then you're going to be prosecuted. 722 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,200 So Amway's annual costs. 723 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,360 What do you think it costs, Mike, if you're trying to run a successful and wake up campaign 724 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:14,960 and you know, it's the least of all of these companies on this list, 1500 bucks, 2090. 725 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,000 So you're in the ballpark. 726 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,360 Most of these others are, it goes from about 2000, 2000, 90 is the lowest. 727 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:30,480 It goes from 2000 and 90 to about 25, 2600 depending. 728 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,360 So they're all kind of right in that 2500 range. 729 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:34,360 Okay. 730 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,840 So some, a little less, some a little more. 731 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,120 So that's what you're kind of out. 732 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:43,640 And that's, that's just for your company sponsored, right? 733 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,240 Like the comp, what the company says you need. 734 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,920 That's not including if you're part of another mentorship program or training program and 735 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,240 you have to fly out. 736 00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:55,960 We had, we had to fly out to like Denver, drive out to Denver a couple of times a year 737 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,680 and they had other meetings like in the twin cities and stuff. 738 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:03,240 And those all had fees because they had to pay for the room at the hotel or whatever. 739 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:04,900 So that's not cutting all that stuff. 740 00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:09,040 This is like legitimately just the stuff from the company that you need. 741 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,040 Sure. 742 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,040 Okay. 743 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,880 And they don't, and they don't really disclose that when they're kind of recruiting you, 744 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,960 they don't ever say like, Hey, look, you're going to need at least two grand a year, three 745 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,840 grand a year to make this work. 746 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,760 They say, Hey, you sell enough. 747 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,280 You get enough to make it work. 748 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:28,640 And so the next column is level at and above which net profits are possible. 749 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,600 So net profits aren't even possible until you hit a certain level within the, within 750 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,360 the, within the conversation plan. 751 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:36,360 Right? 752 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,560 So they've got, they've all got a comp plan. 753 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:38,560 Right. 754 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,480 So that's like how much product do you have to sling before you make a profit? 755 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,480 Yeah. 756 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,960 And I mean, it's a little more nuanced than that, but by and large, yes. 757 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,720 You or your downline, right? 758 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,740 You or your organization that you're building have to move. 759 00:39:51,740 --> 00:39:53,520 And so these are just names. 760 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:59,280 So it doesn't really matter because it's not a, it's not a, it's not a number, you know? 761 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,640 So like Amway, you have to be a platinum to make net profits. 762 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,160 Herbalife you have to be a world team before you can make net profits. 763 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,720 Melaleuca you have to be a director three or four. 764 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:14,800 Tupperware you have to be a manager before you can make net profits. 765 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:22,200 And basically, which means you're offsetting what it costs to run the business and above. 766 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,580 Right. 767 00:40:23,580 --> 00:40:28,400 And then, so now here, here's where we start getting really interesting is the approximate 768 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,280 number of active participants at that level or above. 769 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:33,280 Right. 770 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,540 So the, the number of people, the percentage of people that are at that level to make a 771 00:40:37,540 --> 00:40:39,080 profit and above. 772 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,080 Yes. 773 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,840 And not only that, but active, active participants. 774 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,360 So not the people that sign up for the discount. 775 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:47,360 Yes. 776 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,560 What, what do you think these numbers are? 777 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,360 I would say they range, they range. 778 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,520 The lowest is going to be 10% and the top is going to be 15%. 779 00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:00,000 Oh Mike, you sweet summer child. 780 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,920 The lowest is, let's see here. 781 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:05,920 Yeah. 782 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:12,680 The lowest here is going to be, it's going to be this Air Bond International and it is 783 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,440 0.59%. 784 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,400 Okay. 785 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,200 Now, now listen, now listen. 786 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:26,540 Amway is slightly better at 0.60%. 787 00:41:26,540 --> 00:41:33,160 So less than a percentage point of active participants actually make money at this. 788 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,920 Now the highest one here, and most of these are, they're all, most of these are single 789 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:37,920 digit. 790 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:38,920 Okay. 791 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,080 So Herbalife is 5.71. 792 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,680 Melaleuca is 2.9%. 793 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,720 Tupperware is 2.85%. 794 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:51,120 The highest is actually Sunrider with 11.19%. 795 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:52,440 That's the highest. 796 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,960 That's the highest on this list. 797 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,640 Oh, and actually World Ventures is 0.2%. 798 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,200 So I think that's less than Air Bond. 799 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,880 Yeah, that's less than Air Bond. 800 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,280 So we're not talking, we're not talking this works for everybody. 801 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,760 No, no, no. 802 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,760 That's crazy levels of failure. 803 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,960 That's way, that's, I mean, I don't know if it's true, but I've always been told that 804 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,760 50% of businesses fail within the first two years. 805 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,920 But that is like, that stat is horrible. 806 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:25,920 It's not good. 807 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:26,920 It's way worse. 808 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:27,920 No. 809 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:28,920 It's not good. 810 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,200 And I think the stat for Eagle Scout is I think like 3% or something, or maybe it's 811 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:34,200 up now, I don't know. 812 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:40,240 But it was a pretty low percentage of Boy Scouts that made Eagle Scout rank. 813 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:42,540 And I made it and my two brothers made it. 814 00:42:42,540 --> 00:42:47,620 And that's higher than any of these, or not any of these, but like it's higher or as competitive 815 00:42:47,620 --> 00:42:48,620 as these. 816 00:42:48,620 --> 00:42:53,440 So like if you're not in it to win it, you're just not going to win it, right? 817 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:54,440 Right. 818 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:55,440 You're not in it. 819 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,560 0.5% is like, that's pretty terrible. 820 00:42:58,560 --> 00:42:59,560 You're going to fail. 821 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:00,560 You're going to fucking fail. 822 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,160 Yeah, that's a pretty terrible odds. 823 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,880 I'm not going to succeed at that game for sure. 824 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:05,880 There's no way. 825 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:06,880 Yeah. 826 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,960 This is not a Han Solo never tell me the odds kind of situation. 827 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,440 This is a, you're going to fucking fail. 828 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,520 Especially when you see this next column stat. 829 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,520 Okay. 830 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,580 The next column is max retention rate. 831 00:43:18,580 --> 00:43:21,040 So business owners that renew. 832 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,080 What do you think the range is here, Mike? 833 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:31,120 Well given I have those other stats, I'm going to guess it's 0.01%. 834 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,000 It's got to be below. 835 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,280 No, no, no. 836 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,200 This stat is better, but when you think about the whole way that you make money at these 837 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,880 things is signing people up and eat you. 838 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,560 The max maximum retention rate. 839 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,000 So this is an average. 840 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,640 This is maximum retention rate, 10 to 15%. 841 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,520 Those are the maxes everybody. 842 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,080 The maximum retention rates hit. 843 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,300 Beyond the minimum period. 844 00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:58,920 These are the people that renew year to year. 845 00:43:58,920 --> 00:43:59,920 Yeah. 846 00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:00,920 Maximum. 847 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,080 So that's not everybody. 848 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:09,600 This is like, this is the 0.1% get 10% retention or 15% retention. 849 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:15,620 This next column is approximate percentage of all participants that could have profited 850 00:44:15,620 --> 00:44:17,400 from participation. 851 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,960 So I guess they ran like a economic model on this. 852 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,080 And there is, wait a second. 853 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:31,880 There is one of all of these companies that is above a 1%. 854 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,740 It's a 1.12%. 855 00:44:33,740 --> 00:44:36,040 Everything else is like 0.3. 856 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,560 There's one that's 0.08. 857 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,760 So these are people that could have made money by participating, I guess. 858 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,800 I don't know what kind of model they use. 859 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:45,800 I'm not going to read it. 860 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:46,800 I don't care. 861 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,880 So best case scenario, according to the government, less than 1% of the people involved could 862 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,200 have made profit if they really would have tried hard. 863 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,880 Yeah, if they believed hard deep down, any pizza is a personal pizza. 864 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:00,160 That is psychotic. 865 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,160 Right? 866 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,760 So, and then this is the big one. 867 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:04,760 Do you want to do the big one? 868 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,120 Do you have questions so far? 869 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,720 I feel like I've been talking a lot. 870 00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:11,640 I want to answer any of your questions because I was involved in one and I've been approached 871 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:12,920 by a couple other ones. 872 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:13,920 So if you have questions. 873 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:14,920 Interesting. 874 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,280 I've never been approached by a multi-marketing thing as far as in, I don't, I mean, I would 875 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,880 never be interested in doing it anyway. 876 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,680 But that's interesting statistics. 877 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,480 I can't believe they don't have to disclose that. 878 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,080 Well, they do the same thing that the government does with the GDP. 879 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,720 You know what I'm saying? 880 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:36,920 So if you take, you know, let's say, let's just say Amway here, right? 881 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:42,240 So there's 0.6% of the people at this level called platinum that they can make money. 882 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:43,240 They can make a profit. 883 00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:44,240 Right? 884 00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:49,520 And then they say, well, we've got 0.6% of people that are active participants and they're 885 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:50,520 active. 886 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,440 So we've got 0.6% of the people that are at that level that are active. 887 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,440 We've got, I don't know. 888 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,080 I don't know what you would say that are the people that are active. 889 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,080 Right? 890 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,760 So you have to, you'd have to qualify which people are active or how, how, how many of 891 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,140 the people involved are active. 892 00:46:04,140 --> 00:46:05,560 So you get that number, right? 893 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,400 And then you know that the, the percent of active participants that are at that level 894 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:10,400 or above are 0.6%. 895 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:17,200 But you can say, well, the people that are actually truly, truly, truly active, 50% of 896 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,080 those are at that level or whatever. 897 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,520 Like they can cook the numbers, right? 898 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:26,740 They can cook the stats like, cause they get to define to whoever they're talking to what 899 00:46:26,740 --> 00:46:27,740 active means. 900 00:46:27,740 --> 00:46:29,760 And it might mean something different for every company. 901 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:30,760 I don't know. 902 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:36,260 It seems like these companies make money by getting people involved and then charging 903 00:46:36,260 --> 00:46:37,260 them fees. 904 00:46:37,260 --> 00:46:38,260 Yeah. 905 00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:39,480 That's how they're there. 906 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,240 This is like a fee charging organization. 907 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:46,720 Well with, with Amway, there weren't really any fees. 908 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:53,480 I think it was, I don't know, 65 bucks a year to get the discount or maybe it was a hundred 909 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:54,480 bucks. 910 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:55,480 I don't know. 911 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:56,480 It's similar to a Costco membership, right? 912 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,840 You said Costco has everything, but you sell the pay, but you could get a discount in addition 913 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,940 to whatever, you know, whatever the price was. 914 00:47:03,940 --> 00:47:09,120 So you basically got kind of like the Costco membership prices by paying this and you could 915 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:10,120 make money. 916 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:16,640 I guess if you were the 0.60%, you could make some money and there weren't really any fees, 917 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:22,480 but you had to do all these other things because most people don't just join straight Amway. 918 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:28,020 You join the mentorship or training or leadership program or whatever they called. 919 00:47:28,020 --> 00:47:33,020 And so they have like a reading list or they have meetings that you have to go to, or they 920 00:47:33,020 --> 00:47:36,560 have functions or whatever it is, right? 921 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,080 So you're spending all this money and you can deduct it from your taxes. 922 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:45,560 It's no big deal, except you can't lose money as a business for more than a set number of 923 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,520 years or for the IRS is like, you can't deduct that anymore. 924 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:49,520 You're not making it work. 925 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,520 Like you have to actually make it work. 926 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,320 So you know what I mean? 927 00:47:53,320 --> 00:48:01,040 Like it's, it's, it, unless you can be that 0.6% or that one to 5%, right? 928 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,440 Or even that 11% like it's a very slim margin. 929 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,120 If you can be that slim margin and make the money, then it's worth it. 930 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:12,120 But if you're not like, you're better off just buying a Costco membership because it's 931 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,120 a lot less work. 932 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:14,520 You just have to fight the people at the store. 933 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:19,520 You don't have to go and try and like sell your shit to people, even if the shit's good 934 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:20,520 shit, right? 935 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:21,520 Right. 936 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,960 Which is why, like I said, most of the people that I know that have done it, they're doing 937 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:30,240 it for one year and they're doing it so because they're planning on buying a shit ton of stuff 938 00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:32,840 and it's worth it at that point, you know? 939 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:33,840 Yeah. 940 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,840 Or they just like doing the parties for people and they don't really care about extra money 941 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,660 and they're just like, Hey, I like getting the couple hundred buck bump a couple of times 942 00:48:41,660 --> 00:48:42,660 a year. 943 00:48:42,660 --> 00:48:43,660 Right. 944 00:48:43,660 --> 00:48:47,760 Like I like the product, happy to go demo it, get a couple hundred bucks. 945 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:48,760 Perfect. 946 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:49,760 Like not a big deal. 947 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,560 So, you know, I mean, it's just, it's interesting. 948 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,160 These stats, when I saw them, I was like, Holy fuck. 949 00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:57,760 Those are not good stats. 950 00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:58,760 Not at all. 951 00:48:58,760 --> 00:48:59,760 They're not good stats at all. 952 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,880 And you know, I'm not saying corporate America is, yeah, I'm not saying corporate America 953 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:09,240 is better, but at least you get benefits for the most part, even if they're shit benefits, 954 00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:10,240 right? 955 00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:12,960 You get some sick time, you know, there's some other stuff. 956 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:18,160 In this, you're just, you're schlepping and you're spending all these free hours. 957 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,240 And we just talked about last episode, America has the fewest number of free hours. 958 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:24,720 So when the fuck are we supposed to do this? 959 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:25,720 Right. 960 00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:26,720 Right. 961 00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:27,720 Okay. 962 00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:30,840 So this last column is probably the most telling of all. 963 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:36,120 It is a proximate percentage of all participants who lost money. 964 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,120 Okay. 965 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,520 What do you think this stat is at? 966 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,120 I would say 85% lose money. 967 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,920 Gotta be at least 85%. 968 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,040 Oh, you sweet summer child. 969 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:53,560 Every single one of these is a 99 point something. 970 00:49:53,560 --> 00:50:00,120 Here's one 99 world, world ventures, 99.97. 971 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:07,020 My man, 99.97 of your participants lost money. 972 00:50:07,020 --> 00:50:10,000 That's almost a hundred, depending on how you round. 973 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,220 Almost a hundred percent have lost money. 974 00:50:12,220 --> 00:50:14,400 The average, so they've got an average down here. 975 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,560 The average across all of this, the average across all of these people. 976 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:18,560 Let's count them up. 977 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:24,400 One, two, three, four, five, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 978 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,400 12, 13, 14, 15. 979 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:34,160 Oh, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30. 980 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:35,160 So they got 30. 981 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,220 There's 30 companies that they did across the 30 companies. 982 00:50:38,220 --> 00:50:43,800 The average people who lost money, 99.6%. 983 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:48,720 Every single one of these companies has a 99 plus percentage of people that have lost 984 00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:49,720 money. 985 00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:50,720 Wow. 986 00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:51,720 That's incredible. 987 00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:52,720 And Amway's on there. 988 00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:53,720 Amway's on there. 989 00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:54,720 99.94. 990 00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:55,720 99.94. 991 00:50:55,720 --> 00:51:00,720 So they're not the worst. 992 00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:02,720 Go America. 993 00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:05,840 Oh my God. 994 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,520 Herbalife, 99.43. 995 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,960 Isagenix, 99.79. 996 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,640 Melaleuca, 99.71. 997 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,640 Tupperware, 99.71. 998 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:18,880 Yeah, man. 999 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:25,080 I think that last column, and that's approximate, but you rounded out to two decimals. 1000 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,960 So it's approximate my ass. 1001 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,920 He's losing them, losing their ass. 1002 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:31,920 That's incredible. 1003 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,280 Yeah, I wish they would have had Pampered Chef on here. 1004 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,280 I wish they would have. 1005 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,800 That would have been interesting to see. 1006 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,560 Yeah, I think that'd be really interesting. 1007 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:39,560 Or Mary Kay. 1008 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,000 Avon, I think, is done now. 1009 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,000 Yeah. 1010 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:43,000 At least Mary Kay. 1011 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:44,440 There's some women that swear by that shit. 1012 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,120 Oh, I know they do. 1013 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,560 And like Mike and I said, we're not saying these products are bad. 1014 00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,080 No, Tupperware's pretty good. 1015 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:57,080 The point we're trying to make is if you're doing this to try and make money, the average 1016 00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,920 across 30 is like 99 plus percent losing money. 1017 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,640 So the chances of you making money on it, not really that good. 1018 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,640 No, that's dog shit. 1019 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:07,640 Yeah. 1020 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,200 If you want to do it for the discount, sure, fine. 1021 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,280 Treat it like a Costco membership, but let's not get all hopped up on this shit, is what 1022 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:16,280 I'm saying. 1023 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:17,280 Right. 1024 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:18,280 Yeah, yeah. 1025 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,600 I suppose there's a way to figure it out to where you're not going to lose money if you're 1026 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,800 just like probably not going to sell anybody anything. 1027 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:31,520 Well, I think the only way to make money at it because it says level at which net profits 1028 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,800 are possible and these are high levels. 1029 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,160 These are at least familiar with the Amway levels. 1030 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,160 And so the level that they say platinum, that's a pretty high level. 1031 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:42,160 It takes a bit to get there. 1032 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,120 It's a big kind of a big deal. 1033 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,640 I'm assuming a lot of these other ones are big deals to hit these levels because only 1034 00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,920 what 0.6% of people hit those levels. 1035 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,280 So it's a big deal to hit that level and you're just not going to make that money. 1036 00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:00,320 So you can't go into these things thinking you're going to make money at it because only 1037 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:07,520 0.6, like in a lot of cases, 0 to 11% of people actually make money at these things. 1038 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:09,920 So you can't go into it thinking that way. 1039 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,240 It'd be like saying, oh, hey, about a Costco membership, I'm going to make money at it. 1040 00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:16,360 No, that's not how that works. 1041 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:17,360 No. 1042 00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:18,360 We're not saying the products are bad. 1043 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,160 We're not saying the companies are bad. 1044 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,680 It's just the MLM portion of it. 1045 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:29,040 If you sell Mary Kay or you sell Pampered Chef or whatever you sell, that's fine. 1046 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:30,040 That's good. 1047 00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:31,520 The products are probably good. 1048 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,280 And we both have products from different companies that we enjoy. 1049 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,920 But I'm not going out of my way to say, my God, I need to host myself a Pampered Chef 1050 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,000 party so I can get that thing that I've been looking at. 1051 00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,000 That's me. 1052 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:46,000 Some people do think that. 1053 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,000 Sure. 1054 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,080 Obviously, that's probably the better way to go about it rather than sign up with the 1055 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:52,080 company. 1056 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,200 Reach out to a Pampered Chef person and say, I really want that blender thing or that stoneware 1057 00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:57,520 thing. 1058 00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:58,520 Let's do a party. 1059 00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,140 I'll invite all my friends and give me a discount on it. 1060 00:54:01,140 --> 00:54:02,520 Then you're ahead. 1061 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:03,520 Do it that way. 1062 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,000 You know, don't, don't sign up and think you're going to make money at it. 1063 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,280 Yeah, there's a couple. 1064 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,120 Yeah, that's crazy. 1065 00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,800 That's like these stats are mind boggling. 1066 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,920 And this is on the FTC website. 1067 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,880 Well, we talk about it all the time where everybody has this little thing in their pocket 1068 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,680 with pretty much all the information that the world has ever produced on it. 1069 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:26,680 Pretty close. 1070 00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:32,160 And it's just a matter of spending the time to look for yourself and find the truth. 1071 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:33,520 And sometimes it's hidden. 1072 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:38,880 You got to look because they are trying to lie to you. 1073 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,680 But there is there is information out there. 1074 00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:42,680 Yeah. 1075 00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:48,040 And to be fair, I think this report was probably 2009, 2010 somewhere in there. 1076 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:53,660 So you know, it's let's say, you know, 10, 15 years old, this report. 1077 00:54:53,660 --> 00:54:55,840 Do I think things have drastically changed? 1078 00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,960 No, not at all. 1079 00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:59,920 If they have, it's changed for the worse. 1080 00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:00,920 Probably. 1081 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:05,600 I mean, I don't know, like how, how, how would it have gone through the pandemic? 1082 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,840 You know, I mean, a lot of these companies have internet ordering, so it's really not 1083 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:09,840 a huge deal. 1084 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,720 A lot of these companies depend on face to face meetings and having Tupperware parties 1085 00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:15,920 or Pemper Chef parties or whatever kind of party. 1086 00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:16,920 Right. 1087 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:18,680 So probably didn't go well for a lot of people. 1088 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,880 Well, the Pemper Chef party thing just moved on to Facebook. 1089 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,920 Yeah, that's what they did. 1090 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:23,920 Oh, OK. 1091 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:24,920 Yeah. 1092 00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:25,920 They came up. 1093 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:26,920 Yeah. 1094 00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,400 I mean, so like, yeah, so they pivoted, they adapted. 1095 00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:34,000 I know that Amway, at least the group that we were associated with within Amway, switched 1096 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,220 to virtual events or virtual functions, right? 1097 00:55:37,220 --> 00:55:41,080 They call them functions and they'd bring, you know, like ra ra guest speakers up and 1098 00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:46,240 whatnot and successful people, the point six percent successful people up to talk. 1099 00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,480 They do it virtually and that worked out well enough and it was better than having to travel 1100 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:51,480 places. 1101 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,480 But, you know, like some of them pivot and some of them do whatever. 1102 00:55:54,480 --> 00:56:01,960 But man, like no matter how tech savvy or pivot friendly they are, point six percent, 1103 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:03,080 point six percent. 1104 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:08,600 All of these companies, all 30 of these companies pulled over 90, like the average was 99.6 1105 00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:09,600 percent. 1106 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,680 Fucking lost money. 1107 00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,060 That's crazy, dude. 1108 00:56:14,060 --> 00:56:16,960 That is mind bogglingly bad. 1109 00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,000 And we just talked in our last episode, right? 1110 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,600 Like wage increases versus inflation and purchasing power. 1111 00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,760 Like that's that's bad, too. 1112 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,840 But this is like 99.6 percent bad. 1113 00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:35,920 There's so many ways we should rename the country Scam-erica, you know? 1114 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:37,640 Yeah, just Scam-erica. 1115 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,840 Yeah, dude. 1116 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:40,840 Scam-erica. 1117 00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:41,840 Welcome. 1118 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:47,000 Welcome to Scam-erica where the where the Supreme Court justices are on the payroll 1119 00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,040 of the billionaires. 1120 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:50,960 Yeah. 1121 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,280 There's a sucker born every minute. 1122 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:54,280 Right. 1123 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:55,280 Yeah. 1124 00:56:55,280 --> 00:57:01,000 And no means yes and yes means oh, I'm not allowed to say that. 1125 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,560 Oh, yeah. 1126 00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:12,480 If you want to be racist, we can frame it as states' rights instead. 1127 00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,160 It's about states' rights. 1128 00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,560 And what was the other one? 1129 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:17,560 There's all these euphemisms. 1130 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:19,560 I love the euphemisms. 1131 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,040 Oh, yeah. 1132 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,480 Well, and the thing now is I want to talk about this. 1133 00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,200 This is unless you have. 1134 00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:31,080 OK, so do you have any more questions about MLMs or, you know, kind of like I don't want 1135 00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,200 to get into like what constitutes a pyramid scheme versus an MLM versus a whatever the 1136 00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:36,200 fuck. 1137 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:40,320 No, Nate, I think that you've pretty much convinced me not to be involved with that 1138 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:41,320 shit. 1139 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,280 And, you know, I'm not going to not I'm not going to like throw away my pampered chef 1140 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,360 spritzer that everybody should go out and get one. 1141 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,800 But yeah, maybe I'll try to find a spritzer at a store. 1142 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,800 I don't you know what I mean? 1143 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,720 They well, you know what I think it's really good. 1144 00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:01,160 I think I think the point is, is that the products aren't bad, right? 1145 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:07,160 The products are probably moderately to fairly well researched and developed and all that 1146 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:08,160 stuff. 1147 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:09,640 And I've got some pampered chef. 1148 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,600 I don't know what you call them. 1149 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,920 They're the things that like let you pick up stuff from like a chopping board, like a 1150 00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:16,920 cutting board. 1151 00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:17,920 OK. 1152 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,800 And I like using those like when I chop onions and I grab those two paddle things and like 1153 00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,000 I scoop up the shit and dump them in the thing. 1154 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,920 You know, if you have a good knife, you can use the side of your knife. 1155 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,240 I'm just I'm just letting you know that. 1156 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:29,240 I know. 1157 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,240 You know what? 1158 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,240 I haven't used my pampered chef like scraper things for a long time because I just used 1159 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:34,240 a knife edge. 1160 00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,400 But you know what I mean? 1161 00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,720 But these companies, they have products and they're like they're perfectly serviceable. 1162 00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:41,720 OK. 1163 00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,160 And sometimes they're better than what you find at like a Target or a Creighton Barrel 1164 00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,760 or a Williams Sonoma or whatever the fuck. 1165 00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:48,760 Right. 1166 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:49,760 Or at least just as good. 1167 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:50,760 Like who cares? 1168 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:51,760 Like whatever. 1169 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:53,920 If the review works for you, not a big deal. 1170 00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:55,400 We're not dissing the products. 1171 00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:56,960 We're not hating on the products. 1172 00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:58,680 You like the Herbalife shakes? 1173 00:58:58,680 --> 00:58:59,800 More power to you. 1174 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:00,800 Like awesome. 1175 00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:01,800 Like get on it. 1176 00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:02,800 Whatever before today. 1177 00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,040 They got them all over the place. 1178 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:09,080 They're like fitness buff like shakes. 1179 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:10,120 That's not true. 1180 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,120 That's not true. 1181 00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,880 You've got at least one or two in your town. 1182 00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:14,880 What? 1183 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:15,880 Never heard of it. 1184 00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:16,880 Never saw it. 1185 00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,380 Well, that's because they don't brand themselves as a Herbalife shake shop. 1186 00:59:20,380 --> 00:59:21,380 They have their own names. 1187 00:59:21,380 --> 00:59:22,380 Right. 1188 00:59:22,380 --> 00:59:25,640 Like they come up with their own names and they just sell the Herbalife product. 1189 00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:32,000 So these fitness places, you just Google like a fitness place and by and large it's a Herbalife 1190 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,000 storefront. 1191 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:34,000 Yeah. 1192 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,720 Me either because that's too much work. 1193 00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,360 But so like we said, like we're not dissing the products. 1194 00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:42,360 We're not dissing that. 1195 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,040 It's just you're not going to make money at it. 1196 00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:45,040 Right. 1197 00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:46,040 You're just not. 1198 00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:52,560 For some reason the 0.6% that has made money at it deems you worthy of then helping you 1199 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:53,560 make the 0.6. 1200 00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:54,560 Right. 1201 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:58,200 But I did want to talk briefly because we were talking about previous episode, we're 1202 00:59:58,200 --> 00:59:59,200 talking about America. 1203 00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,000 Great or not. 1204 01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,800 This episode we're talking about, you know, like going into business for yourself kind 1205 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:11,680 of in some sense in a kind of a convoluted and a dishonest, not dishonest way of doing 1206 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:16,000 business, but a dishonest way of like recruiting people saying that anybody, because that was 1207 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,000 the whole thing. 1208 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,040 Anybody could make this work if you work hard enough. 1209 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:20,400 Well, you know what? 1210 01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,080 99.6% of people lose money at this. 1211 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,440 So don't tell me that anybody could do this. 1212 01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:26,440 Right. 1213 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:28,600 I want to talk about Bud Light. 1214 01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:29,600 Okay. 1215 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:30,600 Yes. 1216 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:31,600 Bud Light. 1217 01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:36,120 And I don't know the full story other than they apparently have a trans spokesperson 1218 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:40,000 or they put like a rainbow on a can or a trans person on a can. 1219 01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,120 I'm not exactly sure what they did. 1220 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:43,120 Yes. 1221 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:44,120 Okay. 1222 01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:45,120 Okay. 1223 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:46,120 So Bud Light is the person's name. 1224 01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:47,120 Yes. 1225 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:48,120 Okay. 1226 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:53,240 So all of the conservatives that are against trans anything have decided that they're going 1227 01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:59,040 to go out and buy Bud Light by the crate so they can shoot it with their AR-15s and they 1228 01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:04,120 don't understand that they're buying Bud Light because of a trans person. 1229 01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:05,120 Right. 1230 01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:07,400 Like you're literally doing what Bud Light wants you to do. 1231 01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,800 Like Bud Light doesn't care if you shoot it with an AR-15 or drink it or throw it down 1232 01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,840 the toilet as long as you fucking buy it and you're falling right into the fucking thing. 1233 01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:19,280 Then you're saying, hey, I'm going to do a live stream of me shooting Bud Light with 1234 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:20,280 the trans thing. 1235 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:21,280 Great. 1236 01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:22,680 You fucking bought that case of Bud Light. 1237 01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:23,680 So you're a dipshit. 1238 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,920 Like go buy the beer you like. 1239 01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,520 If you don't, how hard is that? 1240 01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:30,640 If you don't like, still buy it. 1241 01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:31,640 Like Jesus. 1242 01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,840 Kind of like the MLM thing, right? 1243 01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,080 Like 99.6% of people aren't going to make it. 1244 01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:37,080 So don't join one. 1245 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:38,160 It goes way beyond that. 1246 01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,120 First of all, who gives a fuck? 1247 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,880 Second of all, InBev I think is the company that owns Bud Light. 1248 01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:50,600 Whatever company owns Bud Light, they produce like 64 kinds of beverages in the United States. 1249 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,480 Man, and they bought up a lot, a lot of the craft beers. 1250 01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:59,840 So even if you don't like Bud Light and if you like some craft beer, the chances of Anheuser 1251 01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:04,520 Busch or InBev or whatever the fuck owning it is pretty goddamn good. 1252 01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,680 It's like you can't escape the megacorp. 1253 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:11,720 No matter what you do, unless you're buying something that's made in the town you fucking 1254 01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:16,520 live in and you know the person that owns that store, you're probably going to feed 1255 01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:17,520 the beast. 1256 01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:23,400 If you care about the weird train again, which I don't care at all. 1257 01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:24,400 Like whatever. 1258 01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:25,400 Why would you care? 1259 01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,440 I care that InBev is so massive that you can't escape them. 1260 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,880 I don't care that Dillamovany is on the can. 1261 01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:31,880 I don't care. 1262 01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:32,880 I don't care. 1263 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:33,880 Whatever dude. 1264 01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,640 Put whatever symbology you want on there. 1265 01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:37,640 Yeah. 1266 01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,040 Like if I like the beer, I'm buying the beer. 1267 01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,320 I don't like Bud Light so I'm not buying Bud Light no matter who you put on the can. 1268 01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,760 Like it doesn't matter who you put on the can. 1269 01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:46,760 Yeah. 1270 01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:51,160 I saw a guy, he said, if you're going to protest Bud Light because they put Dillamovany on 1271 01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:52,920 the can, congratulations. 1272 01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,640 You joined everybody else who's protesting Bud Light because it tastes bad. 1273 01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:57,640 Yeah. 1274 01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,600 I mean, it's so ridiculous. 1275 01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:02,600 It's stupid. 1276 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,560 It's all this tranny talk. 1277 01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:11,760 If every trans person in the country disappeared tomorrow, traffic would not change. 1278 01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,600 There's so few trans people. 1279 01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,360 It doesn't even matter. 1280 01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,500 It's like 0.6% of the population. 1281 01:03:17,500 --> 01:03:20,000 There's more homeless people than there are trans people. 1282 01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:21,360 Like it's no one. 1283 01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:29,000 Why does anybody, why is it taking up so much energy other than the government and the corporations 1284 01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:34,040 want you to focus on that instead of the fact that you're not making as much money as you 1285 01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:35,320 were 20 years ago? 1286 01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:36,320 Right? 1287 01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:37,320 Yeah. 1288 01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:42,480 Or you've had 5,000% inflation and we haven't raised the minimum wage for 50 years. 1289 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:43,480 Right. 1290 01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:44,480 Well, yeah. 1291 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:45,480 Since 2007 or something. 1292 01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:46,480 Last episode basically, right? 1293 01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:47,480 Yeah. 1294 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:48,480 All the, yeah. 1295 01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,280 So I mean, it's all distractionary techniques. 1296 01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,380 They want it to be a distraction. 1297 01:03:52,380 --> 01:03:55,280 It shouldn't matter to any human being on this planet. 1298 01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,160 What, like who cares? 1299 01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:58,160 It doesn't matter. 1300 01:03:58,160 --> 01:03:59,160 It doesn't matter. 1301 01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:03,520 You know the thing that's even worse, even worse than this. 1302 01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,360 Like one, who cares what they put on the can? 1303 01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:07,920 It literally doesn't matter. 1304 01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:09,040 It doesn't change the taste. 1305 01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,800 It doesn't change the flavor. 1306 01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,220 Marketing does what marketing does, right? 1307 01:04:13,220 --> 01:04:15,120 Like push light. 1308 01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:19,440 Come hunting season, they have like blaze orange cans or they have, they put like corn 1309 01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,560 cobs on their cans and they call it like a limited edition can. 1310 01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:23,560 Well, it's bullshit. 1311 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,160 They pump these cans out in mass. 1312 01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,200 It's not a limited edition anything. 1313 01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:30,960 You know, they just changed the can design seasonally, which is fine. 1314 01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:31,960 Like who cares? 1315 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:33,120 Like, hey, it's kind of fun. 1316 01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:38,680 Like thank you for like breaking up the monotony of life and changing your can design. 1317 01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:42,240 But here's the thing I never really got is like all the people losing their absolute 1318 01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:48,120 minds over the M&Ms, like the M&M characters, like she's wearing like the green M&M is wearing 1319 01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:50,040 the wrong kind of shoes or something. 1320 01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:53,400 Like it's a fucking fictional candy character. 1321 01:04:53,400 --> 01:05:00,120 It's a lame advertisement for highly addictive nonsense that they market to children. 1322 01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:04,780 You know, if you're going to be upset, have them ban sugar commercials on television. 1323 01:05:04,780 --> 01:05:06,440 That's what we should be talking about. 1324 01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:07,440 Right? 1325 01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:13,960 Or have them ban prescription drug commercials or anything like that. 1326 01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:18,360 I mean, why are you upset about what kind of shoes a fictional M&M character cartoon 1327 01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:19,360 thing is wearing? 1328 01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,580 Why don't we talk about a 30% sugar tax? 1329 01:05:22,580 --> 01:05:26,080 Anything that has added sugar needs to have a 30% tax on it. 1330 01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:27,080 Instantly. 1331 01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:28,840 Added sugar is terrible for you. 1332 01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:30,480 It's like killing America. 1333 01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:37,080 And that was the whole thing is like, there's a whole, the sugar industry convinced Americans 1334 01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:43,200 or maybe the world, I don't know that the fat content on the nutrition label was what 1335 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,200 makes you fat. 1336 01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:45,620 Well, guess what, everybody? 1337 01:05:45,620 --> 01:05:46,920 It's not the fat content. 1338 01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:48,880 It's the sugar content. 1339 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:49,880 Yeah. 1340 01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:52,800 It's the sugar scammers, scam Erica. 1341 01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:54,200 Exactly what it is. 1342 01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:55,520 America, man. 1343 01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:56,520 Yeah. 1344 01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:01,240 So, you know, I mean, a lot of people do a lot of the things that the MLMs do. 1345 01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:05,000 And a lot of things could be, depending on your definition of a pyramid scheme, could 1346 01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:06,960 definitely be a pyramid scheme. 1347 01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,360 Like your average nine to five job, most likely a pyramid scheme. 1348 01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,240 You're never going to make as much as a CEO. 1349 01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,040 You're never going to be able to get to CEO. 1350 01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,920 Like you're just never going to get to, unless your name happens to match the last name of 1351 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:19,400 the owner or of the current CEO. 1352 01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:20,720 Like you're just not going to make it. 1353 01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:22,160 Like it's not going to happen. 1354 01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:26,040 And I guess that would have been an interesting counterpoint is to pull up a corporate America 1355 01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:27,040 stats, right? 1356 01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:32,000 And how many people of corporate America actually, you know, make above the median or whatever. 1357 01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,240 But we kind of did that in the last episode, right? 1358 01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:35,920 Like not many, not many, probably. 1359 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,920 I mean, you know, you can tell us for yourself or you can tell yourself based on what, what 1360 01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,020 the, the median GDP was. 1361 01:06:42,020 --> 01:06:46,320 And if you're making that or less or more or whatever, you you'll know, we don't need 1362 01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:52,120 to know, but I don't think the stats are good across the board for anything that you might 1363 01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,600 choose to do in life in America right now. 1364 01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:56,600 Okay. 1365 01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:01,800 Like the people who are quote unquote rich in your area, probably not even, they're probably 1366 01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:02,800 not even there. 1367 01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,680 So they're so debt leveraged. 1368 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,480 They're not top one percent, most likely. 1369 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:07,480 You know what I mean? 1370 01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:09,200 And their debt leverage to the hilt. 1371 01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:10,200 You know what I mean? 1372 01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,800 Like the rich people that you know are probably top 10, top 15 percent. 1373 01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:14,800 You know what I mean? 1374 01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,000 Like maybe it depends on how you define rich. 1375 01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:21,200 Of course, everybody's, whoever's rich is just whoever has more money than you at the 1376 01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:22,200 time. 1377 01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:24,800 Yeah, for sure. 1378 01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,040 Yeah, it's crazy. 1379 01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,160 But yeah, so disappointing. 1380 01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:32,000 And like, well, they picked Dylan Mulvaney. 1381 01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:38,000 That was a master stroke by Bud Light, because Dylan Mulvaney is only has been a woman for 1382 01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:39,000 365 days. 1383 01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:43,000 So it's like the perfect person to enslave everybody. 1384 01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,720 All the conservatives are going to be upset because of the trans thing. 1385 01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:50,720 But then all the hardcore trans people are going to be like, well, Dylan Mulvaney is 1386 01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:51,880 not a real trans person. 1387 01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,320 He's only been a trans person for a year. 1388 01:07:54,320 --> 01:08:01,480 And this apparently Dylan Mulvaney has done some very questionable things on their Twitter 1389 01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:06,660 or whatever their social media, which is like, oh, again, it's all AstroTurf. 1390 01:08:06,660 --> 01:08:07,660 It doesn't matter. 1391 01:08:07,660 --> 01:08:08,660 Right. 1392 01:08:08,660 --> 01:08:09,660 Like it's nonsense. 1393 01:08:09,660 --> 01:08:16,440 Well, it's like that it's like that weightlifting record you sent me where the the current or 1394 01:08:16,440 --> 01:08:23,040 the previous record holder was upset because a man came in and said he identified as a 1395 01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:27,480 female and broke the record by exactly 100 pounds. 1396 01:08:27,480 --> 01:08:29,440 Not even his personal best. 1397 01:08:29,440 --> 01:08:30,760 And he didn't make a big show of it. 1398 01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:37,760 He did it more so to point out the ridiculousness of the rules that this organization had where 1399 01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,560 they didn't ask to check anything. 1400 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,920 And if you identified as a woman, you could come in to identify as a woman. 1401 01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:48,560 You could look like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime and they wouldn't question it. 1402 01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:52,480 And you were then a woman and you could go and compete with the women. 1403 01:08:52,480 --> 01:08:56,240 And the previous record holder was and that was the whole point is the previous record 1404 01:08:56,240 --> 01:09:03,160 holder was trans and was complaining on their thing about how they might have had an advantage, 1405 01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:04,960 but they had transitioned. 1406 01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:09,080 And the most important part was they were nice to people. 1407 01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:13,880 And so the other person shouldn't have been able to do it because they were nice. 1408 01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:15,240 This other person was nice. 1409 01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:20,760 And you know, like what people are going to get upset because this person has just recently 1410 01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:24,200 transitioned or within a year's time or whatever. 1411 01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:26,400 And it's like, what are you guys doing? 1412 01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:30,560 Like some kind of trans club where you're gatekeeping and hazing people or you just 1413 01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:32,240 are you pro trans rights or you're not? 1414 01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,720 Like if you're, I know they are, but if you're, if you're, if you're pro trans rights, like 1415 01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:40,880 who cares how long you've been trans, who cares if you're trans and I like trans rights, 1416 01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,200 then more power to you like welcome. 1417 01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:44,200 We support you. 1418 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:45,200 We're here for you. 1419 01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:47,240 But no, that's not, that's not kind of how it is. 1420 01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,760 At least with the, with the vocal ones, right? 1421 01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:54,320 I think by and large, most people, regardless of what your background is or whatever, like 1422 01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:55,920 most people are supportive of anybody. 1423 01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,680 If it makes sense for that person, like I'm not going to sit there and somebody's going 1424 01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:01,480 to tell me they want to do this, that or the other thing. 1425 01:10:01,480 --> 01:10:03,900 And I'm going to say, no, that's stupid. 1426 01:10:03,900 --> 01:10:06,160 If that's what they feel like, then I'll support them. 1427 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:09,760 I'm in support of adults doing whatever they want to do with their life. 1428 01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:10,760 It doesn't matter. 1429 01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:11,760 We talked about that before. 1430 01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:12,760 Yeah. 1431 01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:13,760 Like I don't care what you do. 1432 01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:15,640 I have, I support whatever you want. 1433 01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,080 As long as you're not hurting anybody else. 1434 01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:19,260 It doesn't matter to me. 1435 01:10:19,260 --> 01:10:24,320 So I said, what you want to do and I support your hatred for the government. 1436 01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:25,320 Yes. 1437 01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:33,920 Well, we all, you know, to the extent allowed by law, I support your hatred for the government. 1438 01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:37,120 Yes, exactly. 1439 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:41,360 So I am nubbing right now. 1440 01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:42,960 Yeah, I'm nubbing too. 1441 01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:43,960 This is really good. 1442 01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,280 This was, yeah, it was actually, it's pretty good. 1443 01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:47,280 It's pretty good. 1444 01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:49,600 It's so much better than the beauty. 1445 01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:54,280 And I know I smoked the beauty incorrectly and I tried to be a little more like cool 1446 01:10:54,280 --> 01:11:00,160 with this one, but I think this one's got a little more friendly leeway with it. 1447 01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:01,160 Yeah. 1448 01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:02,160 Slightly. 1449 01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:03,160 So I like this one. 1450 01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:04,560 I would smoke this one again. 1451 01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:05,560 Oh yeah. 1452 01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:07,640 I have three quarters of an inch left and it's still good. 1453 01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:13,640 And I've been puffing on it pretty slow trying to keep the temperature down, you know? 1454 01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:15,320 So but it's good. 1455 01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:20,320 I just tossed her out now just because it's so short, but I didn't really have any sour 1456 01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:21,640 notes on it. 1457 01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:23,680 Very consistent, I would say. 1458 01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:25,760 Yeah, it was very consistent. 1459 01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:27,440 It was just dark enough. 1460 01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:34,520 It wasn't overly strong or powerful, but it had more flavor, I felt, than the beauty did. 1461 01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:35,520 It did. 1462 01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,880 It had more flavor and it was mild, but still dark. 1463 01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,320 You know, it wasn't like overpowering in any way. 1464 01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:45,240 No, it was probably, I don't know if I should say this. 1465 01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:49,760 It was probably just left the center on the darkness, right? 1466 01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,320 If we're going political on things. 1467 01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:52,320 Yeah, yeah. 1468 01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:54,120 But you know, it's good. 1469 01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:55,120 It's good. 1470 01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:56,120 It's a good one. 1471 01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:57,120 It's a fairly long smoke. 1472 01:11:57,120 --> 01:12:01,960 I mean, we're almost, we're not quite an hour and a half into the episode. 1473 01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,200 You know, it's a good smoke. 1474 01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:08,680 I think with these two gurkas, for sure at least, the beauty and the beast, you gotta 1475 01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:09,880 smoke them slow. 1476 01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:10,880 Yes. 1477 01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:15,080 I think in a way that that is a definite must. 1478 01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:17,120 Slow and steady wins the race on these things. 1479 01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:18,120 So yeah. 1480 01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:20,680 And if I would have known that for the beauty, maybe I'd have a different opinion of the 1481 01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:21,680 beauty. 1482 01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,360 But you know me, I don't smoke or really fast. 1483 01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:29,280 I mean, I sometimes try and like smoke a little quicker than I normally would because I know 1484 01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:30,720 how fast you smoke. 1485 01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:31,720 Right. 1486 01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,920 But I don't feel like I was like chain smoking that beauty down. 1487 01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:37,600 No, you weren't tremendously ahead of me. 1488 01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:38,600 It's good to know. 1489 01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:42,520 Yeah, you weren't tremendously ahead of me by the end, but I think you might have burned 1490 01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:46,320 it on the front side when we were having some technical problems. 1491 01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:50,240 Yeah, that could have, that could be, and I didn't know. 1492 01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:53,920 Like I didn't know that the gurkas are these ones, because you've had this one before, 1493 01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:54,920 the beauty before. 1494 01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:55,920 Yes. 1495 01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,920 And I didn't know that, you know, you got to go a little slower on it. 1496 01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:03,840 So I think that's important for our listeners to know is like we did it and I did it and 1497 01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,760 I fucked up and it was bad. 1498 01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:09,200 And if you don't fuck up and if you listen to the smoke, it's slow. 1499 01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:13,720 Let it kind of sit in between puffs is probably a perfectly fine cigar. 1500 01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:14,720 Yeah. 1501 01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:15,720 So cool. 1502 01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,120 Well, of the beauty and the beast, I think the beast was better. 1503 01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:19,120 Yeah. 1504 01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:20,120 And I would recommend the beast. 1505 01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:22,640 He gave, he gave Bell a library, right? 1506 01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,600 I mean, he's got to be better. 1507 01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:29,200 He put a trans person on it's can, right? 1508 01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:30,200 Yeah. 1509 01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:31,800 No one smokes like Gaston. 1510 01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:32,800 No one spits like Gaston. 1511 01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,880 Now I'm going to get Disney after us. 1512 01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:36,880 Anyway. 1513 01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:40,480 Anyway, everybody is the winner or beast is the winner. 1514 01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:41,480 Beast is the winner. 1515 01:13:41,480 --> 01:13:42,480 Yep. 1516 01:13:42,480 --> 01:13:43,480 Be safe. 1517 01:13:43,480 --> 01:13:44,480 Have fun. 1518 01:13:44,480 --> 01:13:45,480 Catch us next week. 1519 01:13:45,480 --> 01:14:14,640 I'm Ecce le Off road.