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Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Mike.

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And I'm Nate.

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What are we smoking, Mike?

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We are going to smoke the CAO Black.

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It's a cigar that I've never had and it looks really good.

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It's a torpedo.

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We've had good luck with torpedoes.

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Yeah, and this one has a cedar wrapper on it.

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Yes, very good shelf appeal.

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Alright, I'm lit.

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Me also.

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First few puffs pretty good.

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Oh yes.

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Yeah.

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So what are we going to talk about today?

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Well I thought we'd talk about a wide range of topics, but kind of wanted to start with

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tattoos and what do you know about tattoos, Mike?

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I know that I don't have any tattoos.

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I've never felt the need to have one, I guess.

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Once we get to 100,000 subscribers I'll get a Nice Ashes tattoo.

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Perfect.

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I also don't have any tattoos.

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What are your thoughts on them?

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Well, I've looked up the history of tattoos.

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There's been like famous tattoo enthusiasts in the past, mostly circus performers.

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And they used to be associated with the military and the Navy.

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But I don't really have an opinion.

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Sarah has a couple tattoos.

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My Sarah does and your Sarah does as well.

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And I'm not against it by any means, but I've never felt the need to have one.

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Oh yeah.

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Let's say that I was giving you the runaround there for a little bit.

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And we're going to talk about the legality of some of this stuff in a few moments, but

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I wanted to get your opinion on how old do you think people should be allowed to go get

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a tattoo?

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Ah, well, that's interesting.

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I'm not sure if we talked about it.

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We're kind of changing our legal restrictions on things for age.

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When they raised the smoking age up to 21, I thought, well, that's interesting.

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So if we're going to say you can't smoke or drink until you're 21, you probably shouldn't

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be allowed to do a whole lot until you're 21 as far as dangerous things or permanent

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things, including joining the military, potentially driving a car.

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Probably working full time.

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If we're going to say that the age of majority is 21, then that needs to be consistent.

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Yeah.

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And you don't get to just pick and choose, right?

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You don't get to say, well, we can exploit them in the workforce before that, but they

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can't do any of the fun things normal adults can do.

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Yeah, I agree with that because at least around here, if you're 14 or 15, you can't work past

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nine o'clock at night, but you can work a 40 hour week.

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And it's like, I don't know about that.

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And then once you're 16, I don't think there are any rules.

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Maybe it's not after midnight or something.

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It's been a while since I was that age, so I can't remember the rules anymore.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So you think probably 18, 21.

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So we do have, I'm not sure if it's nationwide, but I think it's illegal to tattoo a minor,

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anyone under 18, even with parental consent.

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Oh, really?

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The law is pretty strict.

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That's interesting.

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In that sense, because the other thing that I wanted to ask about was let's just go with

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the straight up general earlobe piercing.

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What age do you think somebody should be allowed to get their ears pierced?

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Now that is interesting because a lot of parents take their small children, typically girls,

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to get their ears pierced.

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Yes.

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And my ears are pierced and I didn't get my ears pierced until I was 18.

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So honestly, I would say that probably should be 18 as well, that if we're going to be consistent,

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you know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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If we're going to be consistent, I think, I don't know.

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There's some different laws, depending on the states, for ear piercing.

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A lot of ear piercing places say they will not do ear piercing until the child can make

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an informed decision themselves, which I think a lot of them have agreed on maybe like eight

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and up.

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There are parents who do want their newborns to pierce their newborn's ears.

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Of course, that raises a whole bunch of different issues, but body autonomy is one of them

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because the infant doesn't have a choice.

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I guess like circumcision in most cases.

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I would say that's very similar.

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I would say ear piercing isn't as dramatic, but it's similar.

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Well it's similar.

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It's maybe not quite as dramatic as a tattoo or if you were talking about the circumcision.

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But I think that the piercings are a little less taboo socially or culturally than tattoos

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because a majority of women and a fair amount of men have ear piercings.

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And I don't think, I mean, depending on the types of earrings that you wear, I don't think

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anyone's ever said, look at that tacky person with their pierced ears, at least not in modern

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times.

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Right?

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Whereas people with tattoos, you go to like a job interview or something, or you try and

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wear long sleeves to cover them up or whatever you might do because they're not as socially

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acceptable.

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Although I think they're getting there.

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They're getting there, but certainly if you're going for a professional job, you're going

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to want to not have tattoos on your face or hands.

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Yeah.

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And it's similar, I think with the earrings and like professional dress for men.

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If you're going to an interview, you probably don't want really loud earrings, just like

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you wouldn't want a really loud tie for the, at least for the initial interview, right?

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You want to try and be a little more conservative just because you don't know the vibe of the

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place.

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Yeah.

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If you're a man, you probably want to pull your earrings out for the interview.

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And determine the culture before you, depending on how much you want the job, of course, but

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it's still not necessarily acceptable for men to have earrings.

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Yeah.

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Which is whatever, it's just the way it is.

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So what are you thinking about the black so far, the CAO black?

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Ah, it's good.

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Not incredible, but very respectable.

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No, it's tasty.

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It's kind of right in the middle, I would say.

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Not overly light and not overly dark.

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Yeah, it's a very good stick, but it's not like, we've had a few where they're exceptional

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from the very start.

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Yes.

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And this is good, but it's not like-

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Yes.

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And you know, it can still, it can change, it can get better.

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So we'll see.

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Oh, sure.

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Now, what if you said, or what if I told you, Mike, that I was merely trying to lure you

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in to a giant debate that we're about to have?

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Okay, about tattoos and earrings?

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Would you be excited?

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Sure.

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I would like also to mention, because I thought about this, that in many states you have to

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be 18 years old to tan in a tanning bed.

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Oh, okay.

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I didn't even think about that.

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Oh, yes.

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Oh, yes.

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Okay.

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So here comes the bombshell.

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A few days ago, as of our recording of this episode, so this will be a couple of weeks

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ago now for your listeners, Nebraska passed a ban on gender-affirming surgery for minors.

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I thought this was where it was going.

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Okay.

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I would have to know the details of that.

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And so, well, we're going to get into that, but I want to tread carefully here because

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we're not trying to make fun of transgender people.

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We're not trying to say that this surgery isn't needed.

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I'm trying to bring some logic and rationality into this because we have these other things,

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tattoos, ear piercings, tanning, that are all, I mean, I don't want to say like cosmetic

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and like minimize gender-affirming surgery, but they are looked, you know, like appearance-based

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things for the most part.

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And we've already said, you know, just like tattoos, it's illegal under 18, even if your

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parent consents to it.

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Piercings, there's not really a, there's some laws in different states and things, but it's

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really up to the piercing shops.

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And most of those have agreed that they won't do it if your child is too young to make a

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decision for themselves.

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And you know, and I know they're trying to like extend that don't say gay bill in Florida

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and everything.

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The Nebraska trans health bill, some politicians were threatening to filibuster on it, but

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they voted to advance the bill that would ban gender-affirming care for minors.

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And let's see, I'm just, I've got the article up here.

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So one person who's 29 years old said of them passing this, I am a ball of rage.

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I have had to go back to therapy when this bill was introduced.

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I know so many people, so many kids who will be hurt by this.

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And so there's some parents that were upset because I guess they gave their child gender

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affirming surgery and they said, I know they would have killed themselves had they not

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had the surgery.

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That's a big, it's a very controversial topic and it's very complex.

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I would, in general, I'm opposed to giving minors hormones or surgeries to change their

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appearance.

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Mostly for consistency sake, you know, we, as a society, we've kind of come up with a

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few ages where we all kind of acknowledged that before that age, that person can't really

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be held super accountable for their decisions because they're not really, they don't have

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enough information and experience to make those decisions for themselves.

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So if you can't drive a car or go into a tanning bed, why would you be allowed to take hormones

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that would alter your natural body process or alter your appearance physically, like

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having a breast reduction or an implant or something?

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You know what I mean?

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It's not consistent.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I, and so I guess you could sit there and you can say that tattoos and ear piercings

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are purely optional.

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They're not things that really need to be done.

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Whereas, you know, and some of the people that were upset about this, Bill in Nebraska

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saying that if their child hadn't been able to get the gender reassignment surgery that

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they would have committed suicide.

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You know, so there's obviously a lot more, like you said, it's complex issue.

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There's a lot more feelings and you know, the core of your being, like if you're not

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registering what you're born as or presenting as, I guess, right?

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Like it's much more mental anguish than choosing whether or not to get a tattoo.

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There is what we also, I mean, you and I can acknowledge it.

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And even though I guess it's controversial, there is a certain amount of trans trending

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going on with young people at this point in time.

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Yeah.

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And a lot of people who have gender dysphoria through puberty no longer have it after they're

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done with you.

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So for those people, you're screwing them over if you allow them to start altering themselves,

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you know?

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Yeah.

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Delaying the gender affirming surgeries and hormones.

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I guess to me it's a cost benefit analysis.

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Is it going to hurt more people than it helps by forcing them to wait until they're an adult

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to make an adult decision?

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Yeah.

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And you know, I know there's other surgeries that people do for minors, right?

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Like, I don't know, wisdom teeth removal or tonsil removal or whatever.

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That's significantly different than changing your physical appearance.

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Yes.

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I'm not trying to argue that.

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I'm just trying to bring in kind of all sides.

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So it's not to say that surgery for minors is illegal, but there are things known as

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elective surgeries as well.

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So I guess we'd have to look it up if like cosmetic surgery, I would doubt that that's

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legal for minors.

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I would hope it's not.

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You know, I would hope that you can't give a nose job to a 15 year old.

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That doesn't seem, rhinoplasty seems like something you should be an adult for.

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Probably even 21.

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I'm guessing that your bone structure is not done developing until at least then.

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So I guess I don't know.

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I've never had plastic surgery.

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Well, me either.

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So you were just born an Adonis.

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Trying to look up the laws on the rhinoplasty.

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Oh, sure.

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We have to be very careful.

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We've edited certain portions of this show before for a lot of reasons.

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We have, and I felt like I really would like to talk about it, but I don't want it to be

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a yay or nay necessarily.

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You know, I want to look at it in line with some other things.

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And I don't mean to be minimizing anything by kind of leading Mike on with the tattoos

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and the piercings other than those are things that people have experiences with.

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And there's some, yeah, experience.

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There's, what do you call it when there's like a vast, vast batch of knowledge.

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Right.

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And I haven't read the bill.

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I did hear something about it.

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A lot of times these bills, in my opinion, go too far with the rules.

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You know, it's not just before you're 18, you're not allowed to have gender reassignment

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surgery.

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They add addendums to it that makes them cross the line in a crazy town.

241
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And I don't know if that's the case.

242
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,160
Well, I think that's maybe the big problem.

243
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:28,800
So it looks like minors can get plastic surgery in the United States, but parental consent

244
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,680
may be required.

245
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,600
And so it looks like parental consent is required for patients under 18.

246
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:36,600
Sure.

247
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,480
And there's a big difference between repairing a cleft palate or something of that nature.

248
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,480
And yeah.

249
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,000
And I guess to be fair, like, I don't know what they're defining plastic surgery as,

250
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:53,320
you know, if they want a, I don't even know all the terms, if they want, what do they

251
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,000
do when they inject the forehead to tighten it up or something?

252
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,680
Like if they want that kind of stuff, it's probably different than if they're repairing

253
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,040
a cleft palate or some kind of other accident.

254
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,040
Right.

255
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,880
I could see somebody get into an accident and having to have a nose reconstruction,

256
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:13,240
you know, if you're in a bad car accident or something or a snowboarding fall, you know

257
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,240
what I mean?

258
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,920
Like there's things that happen where I could see.

259
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:16,920
Oh yeah.

260
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:17,920
Yeah.

261
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:25,440
But it's, like I say, if you can't, if, if, if we as a society have agreed that you're,

262
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:32,400
you're not even mentally aware enough to be able to tan responsibly when you're 17, then

263
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:38,320
we've really said that 17 year olds are not capable of making decisions for themselves.

264
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,480
Yeah.

265
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,080
And that's not to say that, like, I don't know, cause it's weird.

266
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,780
I was kind of opposed to the smoking age moving to 21.

267
00:15:49,780 --> 00:15:54,680
And I would have been more in favor of, let's just say the drinking age moving down to 18.

268
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:55,680
Sure.

269
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,560
And just, you know, the voting age and the drinking age and that stuff, like just all

270
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,840
the same age or make everything 16 or make everything 18.

271
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,920
You can't drive till you're 18 or something, you know, like, I don't know what, but.

272
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:06,920
Right.

273
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,160
I happen to be a fan of that as well.

274
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,240
I know that there's been interviews that I've watched with military commanders and they've

275
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,960
asked these guys, you know, what would happen if they raised the minimum military age to

276
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:18,960
21?

277
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:24,000
And almost universally they say that there wouldn't be a modern army if they had to recruit

278
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,000
21 and above.

279
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,000
Yeah.

280
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000
So.

281
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,520
And you can be 17 to join the military.

282
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,520
You just have to have a parental permission.

283
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:32,520
Yeah, that's true.

284
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:38,600
But I'm having some pretty serious draw issues on my cigar here.

285
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:39,600
Really?

286
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:40,600
I am not at all.

287
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:41,600
Mine's drawing fine, tastes fine.

288
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:46,600
Like I say, it's not crazy good, but it's good.

289
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:47,600
Yeah.

290
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:48,600
We've been spoiled.

291
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,600
I've been spoiled the last couple cigars that have smoked.

292
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,400
Yeah.

293
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,520
Mine is very like cloggy and I took a little bit more off the, off the end, but that wasn't

294
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:00,520
it either.

295
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:01,520
Hmm.

296
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:02,520
Weird.

297
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:03,520
Yeah.

298
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,320
I'm getting hardly any smoke in my mouth from this one.

299
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:06,320
Really?

300
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:07,600
And the ends really lit well.

301
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:08,600
Yeah.

302
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,800
I think I'm forcing, I think I'm forcing through it now.

303
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,560
I don't know if there was just like a tight little tight spot.

304
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,760
Yeah, mine's fine.

305
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:21,080
It's still not a terribly great draw, but I'll work through it for you, the listeners.

306
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:22,080
Yes.

307
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,360
Friday night I smoked a Protagas black and a CAO moon trance.

308
00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:27,360
Okay.

309
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:28,600
So those are pretty good cigars.

310
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,600
I like both of those.

311
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,600
Yeah.

312
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:39,440
And so like I say, I was spoiled the last two that I had, but I can say it's good.

313
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,880
I'm pairing it with water this evening.

314
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:48,680
I was debating water, but I decided to go with the powdered dry IPA, double dry hopped

315
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,520
from Sierra Nevada.

316
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:57,640
I did a fair bit of drinking last night with our main man, Dev.

317
00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,240
He always appreciates these shout outs.

318
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,280
So I'm sure the Wednesday that this episode drops, I'll get a little texty poo from Dev.

319
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:05,280
Nice.

320
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,280
Yeah.

321
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,240
I had people over on Friday night.

322
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,240
Okay.

323
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,680
And let's just say that my friend was drinking Busch lights and I found two of them in my

324
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:14,680
driveway full.

325
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:15,680
Okay.

326
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:16,680
And on the ground.

327
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:17,680
There you go.

328
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:18,680
So there we go.

329
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:31,280
So let's go back to this age for gender affirming surgery.

330
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:36,200
I guess I'm not opposed to it taking place.

331
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,920
I'm opposed to child beauty pageants, but they still happen and people aren't arrested.

332
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:49,120
But I think that it can't be done lightly and it's more, until they're 18, it would

333
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,040
have to be more so on the parents, right?

334
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,120
But there's so many parents that don't even talk to their kids hardly.

335
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:56,120
Right.

336
00:18:56,120 --> 00:19:01,560
And children are very susceptible to manipulation.

337
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:10,440
And I mean, I'm not trying to attack anybody, but some adults definitely have a agenda either

338
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:17,560
for or against the LGBT community and they're both committed to that ideology.

339
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:23,640
And I think that they would easily manipulate a child into doing things that they otherwise

340
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,600
would not do without that influence.

341
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,640
You know what I mean?

342
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:28,640
Yeah.

343
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:34,600
I mean, and I feel like, I was just going to say, I feel like even when you and I first

344
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,960
met, I think I was like 25 or maybe a little, I was probably a little younger than that.

345
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:40,960
I don't know.

346
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:46,760
But I feel like I didn't really kind of get a hold of myself until maybe about 25.

347
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,080
You know what I mean?

348
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,560
And everybody's different.

349
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:52,560
Everybody's different.

350
00:19:52,560 --> 00:20:00,400
And if somebody's transgender and the parents know that they're just absolutely miserable,

351
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:08,680
I think there needs to be some sort of legal way to get the surgery done in extreme cases.

352
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,920
Right?

353
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,280
Regardless of if there's a ban under 18.

354
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:15,280
Do you know what I mean?

355
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,960
Like, I feel like there would have to be some sort of exception process because I wouldn't

356
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,880
and normally I'm more of a fan of the government leaving people alone and letting people do

357
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,080
what they want to do.

358
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:34,480
And I don't know, maybe it's better to let anyone who wants gender affirming surgery

359
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:35,640
to do it.

360
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,140
And if they were just following a trend, I guess that's a good lesson they learned.

361
00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:43,300
And if they weren't, then they were able to take care of their life and feel comfortable

362
00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:45,000
finally for the first time.

363
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,200
You know, I don't know.

364
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,600
It's interesting.

365
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,880
I can only imagine though that any minor that gets the surgery and then later decided it

366
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:59,640
was a trend probably has some good legal recourse against the doctor who performed the surgery

367
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:00,640
possibly.

368
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:06,520
Well, they're definitely going to have some scarring potential infertility issues that

369
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,000
they're going to deal with for the rest of their life.

370
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,000
When it comes to adults, I think that adults should be able to do whatever they want as

371
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,080
long as they're not hurting anybody else.

372
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,840
So that's pretty easy line in the sand for me to draw.

373
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:24,120
But like I say, the issue becomes when you're under the age of majority, which we don't

374
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:27,400
have a clear age of majority in the United States.

375
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:32,960
But if you're under the age of majority, you're not responsible for your own actions, largely.

376
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,120
You know, you don't have the same legal repercussions if you commit crimes.

377
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:38,120
You don't have the same legal rates.

378
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:43,920
Yeah, I was going to say it's strange when minors commit crimes because it kind of depends

379
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,600
on the severity of the crime if they choose to try them as an adult.

380
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:48,600
Yeah, yeah.

381
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,900
And the more serious the crime, the more likely it is they'll be charged as an adult.

382
00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:57,840
And of course, the closer to adulthood, I guess in that case, which would be 18, they

383
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,880
are the more likely they are to be tried as an adult.

384
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:01,880
Yeah, yeah.

385
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,800
If you're 15 and you have three felonies, your third felony is probably going to be

386
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,400
charged as an adult.

387
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:09,400
Yeah.

388
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,920
And there are 15 year olds that have three felonies, unfortunately.

389
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:14,920
Yeah.

390
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:20,200
Yeah, you know, it's a very sensitive issue.

391
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,360
I mean, I've talked to 15 year olds.

392
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,440
I don't think a 15 year old is capable of making a decision for himself.

393
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,440
Yeah.

394
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,040
At least not the ones that I've talked to recently.

395
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:34,000
Well, I mean, they can decide like what roller coaster to ride at the amusement park, but.

396
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,000
Right.

397
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,000
And everybody does.

398
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,440
That's a lot of serious decisions.

399
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,440
No, I know.

400
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:44,160
And I also know people mature at different rates and it kind of depends on your parenting

401
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,960
and how you're being interacted with by adults, too.

402
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:55,960
I know that I felt like, I mean, it's tough because when I was in high school, I was like,

403
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,080
why do I have to listen to all these adults?

404
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,120
You know, like I was a good student and got good grades and everything.

405
00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:07,780
It was just kind of like I'm ready for people to take me seriously, which it's tough because

406
00:23:07,780 --> 00:23:12,640
like looking back now, I'm like, OK, OK, 15 year old me.

407
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,440
Yeah, you had your shit together then, not, you know, but I don't know.

408
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:23,360
Like on one hand, it's like why not treat people like adults?

409
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:27,480
But again, you know, like you're not going to let a 12 year old be a guest on our podcast

410
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,360
and smoke down a cigar and drink scotch, you know.

411
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:36,240
So like you said, there's like adults should be able to do whatever they want, but we have

412
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:42,840
laws in place to kind of protect children from, you know, I don't know if it's really

413
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:43,840
harm.

414
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:50,720
It's harm because I know drinking alcohol, smoking marijuana, cigarette smoking or vaping

415
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:58,200
all have kind of developmental consequences if you do them when your body is still developing.

416
00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,640
Oh, yes.

417
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,000
Oh, yes.

418
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,200
I mean, to an excess, I'm sure.

419
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,960
Like I'm sure if you take one puff off of a joint or something, you're not going to

420
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,520
be irreparably damaged.

421
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,480
But yeah, if a child starts smoking marijuana at nine years old, there's probably going

422
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,320
to be some serious consequences.

423
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,240
Regularly consumes marijuana.

424
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:20,240
Yes.

425
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,560
And I think marijuana should be legal.

426
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,120
I think every drug should be legal.

427
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:27,040
If people want to destroy their own lives, that's their right.

428
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,760
But that's the right as an adult, not as a minor.

429
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:30,760
Yes.

430
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:31,760
No, I'm with you.

431
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,280
I feel I think all that stuff should be legal.

432
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:41,360
I think the biggest thing that isn't said, a lot of these people, I would venture to

433
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:48,160
guess, I would bet money that a lot of the supporters of this bill in Nebraska would

434
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,000
prefer just to ban transgender people in the state of Nebraska period.

435
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,520
Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

436
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:01,320
And I think you kind of hit the nail on the head when you said that most of these bills,

437
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,080
one way or the other, are too far.

438
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,960
They're both totalitarian, either way you go.

439
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,560
Or one's totalitarian and one's like, hey, free love for all or something like that.

440
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,200
You don't want gender affirming surgery?

441
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:18,200
Go get it.

442
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:19,200
Everybody can have it.

443
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,320
And the other one is like, nobody can have gender reassignment surgery at all.

444
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,800
We hate people that aren't their genders that they were born with.

445
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,120
And that's what I mean.

446
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:30,600
There's got to be a middle ground because there are people that legitimately struggle

447
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,680
with this.

448
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,840
And I would go so far to say, there's need this surgery.

449
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:41,660
Well, it's generally accepted that for people with gender dysphoria, the only known treatment

450
00:25:41,660 --> 00:25:47,560
is to go through a transition because not doing so has pretty serious mental health

451
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,680
consequences for those people.

452
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,680
And that's accepted by the majority of educated people, I think.

453
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,680
Yeah.

454
00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:02,400
And that's what I mean, I think we need to have a law that can protect people that are

455
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:08,600
following a fad while still serving those people that legitimately need it.

456
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:15,360
We're so early in this current trend or current awareness that even bringing up the concept

457
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:19,960
that some of this is a fad is considered offensive by some.

458
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:20,960
Yeah.

459
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,800
And I'm fine with that.

460
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,280
I mean, it's an awfully expensive thing to be a fad.

461
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,760
Just surgery, healthcare in our country, any kind of surgery to be a fad, regardless of

462
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,400
what it is, is an awfully expensive fad, in my opinion.

463
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:43,000
But like you were saying, the children are very impressionable and puberty is a very

464
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,400
confusing time for everyone, at least if I'm recalling correctly.

465
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,400
Yeah.

466
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:54,080
There's a lot of changes and you're just basically just starting to become a conscious,

467
00:26:54,080 --> 00:27:00,840
conscientious person and it's definitely an interesting time in everybody's life, I would

468
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:01,840
think.

469
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,960
This whole transgender thing is really, it's only something that middle class people worry

470
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:07,960
about.

471
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,640
If you're super poor, this is not on your radar.

472
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:17,000
I bet you there's not nearly the same percentage of transgender people in Appalachia or the

473
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,760
inner city as there is in the suburbs.

474
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:20,760
You know what I mean?

475
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,040
I think this is kind of a trend in the affluent communities.

476
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,040
Yeah.

477
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,920
I mean, I guess it kind of goes back to our Amish episode, right?

478
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,560
When I was asking if there were homosexual Amish people and you said no, because they

479
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,400
didn't know about it.

480
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,160
But I feel that there's...

481
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,080
So let's just, let's go with like legit cases.

482
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:45,120
There's probably the same percentage of legit cases all over the place and there probably

483
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,240
has been throughout history.

484
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,920
It's just we don't have the data to support it.

485
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:50,920
You know what I mean?

486
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:51,920
I would agree with that.

487
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,960
I would assume that that's the case.

488
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:54,960
Yeah.

489
00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:01,160
And so people in Appalachia or wherever might not know what it's called, but they might

490
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:08,480
be like, hey, that person dresses kind of like mannish, but they were born a girl and

491
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,800
then it's just kind of like left out of that, you know, because there's not much else that

492
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,120
they can do.

493
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:19,400
Or maybe they don't get to do anything and they commit suicide and nobody knows that

494
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,240
it was because of gender dysmorphia.

495
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,240
So I don't know.

496
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,040
I think it's tough to try and make kind of bold statements about it because certainly

497
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:34,560
there were homosexuals before same sex marriage passed in the legislation.

498
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:35,560
You know what I mean?

499
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,880
And there were black people before desegregation happened.

500
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,400
So I mean, it's kind of, it's hard to measure some of that stuff.

501
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,920
It's extremely difficult to measure.

502
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,800
This is not an aside, but it kind of is.

503
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:53,640
I feel really bad for the tomboy and metrosexuals, which are kind of the same thing, but one's

504
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,160
a man and one's a woman, you know, because I see a lot of women, especially who were

505
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,520
in their fifties who are heterosexual, but who are tomboy and the same with men.

506
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,440
You see these men that are pretty flamboyant dressers, but they're with women.

507
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,760
So I think that the young, those people are, they're old enough to wear none of this crap

508
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,960
is going to affect them.

509
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:19,120
But if you're 14 and you're a tomboy, I bet you it's pretty confusing time to be growing

510
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,160
up as a teenager right now.

511
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,160
Yeah.

512
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:28,280
No, I know at least where I went to school, it was always like a stereotype that the softball

513
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,880
players who were girls were lesbians.

514
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:36,040
And that certainly wasn't 30 fucks, five lesbians on that field.

515
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:43,560
No, I mean, it depends on what movies you're watching, but probably not.

516
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,000
Not in my town.

517
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:51,480
I'm sure there were a few lesbians on the team, but maybe, I don't know.

518
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,720
I don't even remember who was the softball player.

519
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:59,120
But I'm sure the same is true for any sport, whether it's male or female, you know, there's

520
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,120
just a fact of life.

521
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,120
Right.

522
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:02,120
Right.

523
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,120
That was the joke though.

524
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,120
Oh yeah, they're all lesbians.

525
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,120
No, yeah.

526
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,600
They might be, maybe they were a little bit more muscular.

527
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:16,640
I heard all male bowlers were non-transitioning lesbians.

528
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:17,640
That's correct.

529
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,520
That is correct.

530
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:25,040
So I don't want to like crimp your style and everything, but for the life of me, I can't

531
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,560
get this cigar to draw.

532
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:28,560
Really?

533
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:29,560
Like it's lit.

534
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,480
I'm having a grand old time with this thing.

535
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,560
Yeah, I just, I puff and I puff and I puff and I don't get any smoke in my mouth.

536
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,800
And it's, you know, it's lit and smoking on the other end.

537
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,840
Do you have a poker to poke, like a pipe tool?

538
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:48,400
No, I've got, well, I'm looking at, I hung some more pegboard in my garage today and

539
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,960
I'm looking at all my tools arrayed out on the thing here.

540
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,800
But the smallest thing I would have is kind of like a screwdriver, but I think that's

541
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:58,800
a little bit too big.

542
00:30:58,800 --> 00:30:59,800
Oh, we have a nail.

543
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,400
Yeah, depending on the size of the screwdriver.

544
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,400
We've had like a double on.

545
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,400
Maybe have a nail.

546
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,640
Yeah, a small, small nail.

547
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,760
I've got some big nails.

548
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,480
We grow them big here.

549
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,480
I see.

550
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:13,480
I see.

551
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,480
No finished nails for Nate.

552
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,400
All trim is put up with 16 penny.

553
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:18,400
Yeah.

554
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,080
If you can't, if you can't feel it going in, what's the point?

555
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,320
I don't know.

556
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,880
I got a really long screw that's like gross and icky.

557
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,280
I don't know if I want to do that.

558
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:29,280
I'll keep looking.

559
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,880
You guys keep talking.

560
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:31,880
Yes.

561
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:32,880
Vamp, vamp.

562
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,680
Oh, wait, here we go.

563
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,600
I've got some bright wire nails, one inch.

564
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:39,600
I'll try that.

565
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:40,600
Nice.

566
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,600
Give it a shot at least.

567
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:43,960
Yeah, I don't know.

568
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,960
So like my humidity in the humidor was a little bit higher than it normally is, but I don't

569
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,800
know if that's really going to.

570
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,000
Oh man, whatever that nail did the trick, I think.

571
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,000
Hopefully so.

572
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,000
Oh, there we go.

573
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,800
I guess it was just really tight down at the torpedo end and I've heard that before.

574
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,680
Yeah, so I've seen guys have to hold it.

575
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,760
It's so tight at the torpedo end.

576
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,760
Yes, yes.

577
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:15,200
So when I was in college, I knew one transgendered woman who was going through this teaching

578
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,720
program at the same time.

579
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:24,960
And this person would dress, go to class as a man and then go to these conferences and

580
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:25,960
big events as a woman.

581
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,800
It was always interesting.

582
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,240
And then they would pretend like they weren't the other person seemingly.

583
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,240
You know what I mean?

584
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:39,000
Because I talked to the person in class when they were dressing and acting like a man.

585
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,440
But at these things, I would sit at the same table and they wouldn't talk to me.

586
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,840
Okay, that's a little strange.

587
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,920
It was really weird.

588
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,080
And a really nice person.

589
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,920
I got along well with them, but just interesting behavior.

590
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,960
I had people I'm sure that this was in the mid 2000s.

591
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:07,000
I'm sure that it was a very tough thing to do for them at that time, especially in not

592
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,000
a major city.

593
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:14,160
It was a large area, but it wasn't like Chicago or something.

594
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,600
But I don't remember anybody being transgender when I was in high school.

595
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:24,600
Yeah, I don't really keep up with my high school classmates, but I don't think I heard

596
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,720
of anyone being transgender from there.

597
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,760
But I graduated with 89 people.

598
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:30,760
So right.

599
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,400
I'm sure that there's at least one transgender person that was there.

600
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,840
They just wasn't, they weren't open about it in high school or if they were, I didn't

601
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:38,840
know them.

602
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:39,840
Yeah.

603
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,040
And I mean, you know, they might not have been.

604
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,360
So like for me, they might have been there when I was there, but they might not have

605
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:47,360
been in my grade.

606
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:48,360
Right.

607
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:49,360
Right.

608
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,480
We had open homosexuals.

609
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,720
And your Sarah and I were talking about this.

610
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,360
This was like right after September 11th and there was not a lot of bullying going on at

611
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:01,360
that time.

612
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,240
It was very discouraged with all the school shootings and stuff that were going on.

613
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:06,960
It was really frowned on.

614
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,240
From what I gather, bullying is becoming a bigger issue in high schools now.

615
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:12,240
Okay.

616
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:13,240
Which is weird.

617
00:34:13,240 --> 00:34:17,800
I talked to my nieces and nephews and they're around that age and apparently bullying is

618
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,320
back in a way that it wasn't when I was in school.

619
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:26,840
It just wasn't considered a cool thing to do or it wasn't socially acceptable amongst

620
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,440
my peer group at least.

621
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,320
Well, it shouldn't be.

622
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:31,320
It shouldn't be.

623
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,320
No.

624
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,000
But that kind of goes back to our thing where, you know, and I mean, so bullying happens

625
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:42,960
at all ages, but just at work, you know, it's just called being insubordinate if your boss

626
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,840
is bullying you, you know, so then it's your fault.

627
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,200
And I guess usually with bullying, people try and blame the victim more so than the

628
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:51,200
bully.

629
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,640
So I don't know that we really had bullies in our high...

630
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,840
I'm sure we did in our high school, but like I said, it's a small class and I don't know.

631
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:00,840
Yeah.

632
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:07,680
When I was an apprentice, that was like a pretty standard practice to make first through third

633
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,240
year apprentices have a pretty difficult time at their job, but it's all part of the process.

634
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:13,240
Yeah.

635
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:14,240
And I think hazing is different.

636
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:15,240
Yeah.

637
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:21,560
I think there's a lot of hazing and causing stress on purpose because until you hit your

638
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:26,440
fourth or fifth year, you're not really allowed to work with live electricity and that's extremely

639
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,440
stressful.

640
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:32,920
So they want to weed people out that can't handle pressure and stress because they're

641
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,080
dangerous to themselves and to other people.

642
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,080
And you just got to get rid of them.

643
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,720
Unfortunately, it's not a very nice way to look at it, but it's the truth.

644
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:48,920
Well, and you know what, that happens in a lot more jobs than people want to admit because

645
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,680
a lot of jobs have like probationary periods.

646
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:57,920
Even if you're not working with live electricity or lions and tigers or whatever it might be,

647
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,560
but a lot of jobs have kind of those probationary periods where, yeah, maybe you interviewed

648
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:08,640
well and you had good references, but maybe you just can't cut it.

649
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,040
And so that's why they have those probationary periods because it's pretty much like you

650
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,120
don't get a lot of the benefits or have a lot of the protections.

651
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,640
So if you fuck up, they can say, bye bye.

652
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:20,640
Yeah.

653
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,440
And they, certain professions are going to have a higher failure rate than others, you

654
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,440
know?

655
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:26,440
Yeah.

656
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,440
By design, that's not a bad thing really, unless you're one of the people that failed.

657
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,040
But then you've got to be resilient and find something else to do.

658
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:41,040
Oh yeah, and that's the other thing that I wanted to mention about minors and piercing

659
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,800
tattoos and surgeries and other things.

660
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,920
Because I'm really not trying to single out transgender.

661
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:54,400
Part of life is that you can't always get what you want right away.

662
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,320
You know what I mean?

663
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,720
And it could be a toddler in a toy store who wants all the toys.

664
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:04,720
Not our toddler, but you know what I mean?

665
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:11,680
There's things that we have very grown up discussions about with our toddler.

666
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,080
No you can't do that.

667
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,080
Why?

668
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,080
You know?

669
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,920
So yeah, very well rationalized, thought out arguments from her.

670
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:24,800
You know, I mean, delayed gratification is definitely kind of like a thing in life, you

671
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:25,800
know?

672
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:32,280
And it's tough with social media and like TikToks and kind of like the instant messaging

673
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,920
and instant stuff and all the time.

674
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,160
I started reading, I read a couple books recently.

675
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,240
I don't know if they really kind of fit here, but I'm going to see if you've heard of either

676
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:45,240
of them.

677
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:47,960
And one was really short.

678
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:53,640
It took me like an hour to read it, but it was Gifts from the Sea by Charles Lindbergh's

679
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:54,640
wife.

680
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,200
I can't remember what her name is off the top of my head right now.

681
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,560
Mrs. Lindbergh.

682
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:00,760
Mrs. Lindbergh.

683
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,000
And I'm not trying, and I know, so like this is a terrible time for me to space on her

684
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,680
name, especially when we're talking about trans.

685
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:14,960
And now I'm like, yeah, her, yeah, the author is, well, I have to define her by her husband,

686
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,960
who's a man who I remember and not what her actual name is, right?

687
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,160
So I apologize.

688
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,200
That was not my intent.

689
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,440
Guessing she's not from Little Falls, Minnesota.

690
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:26,440
Probably not.

691
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:27,920
She's a fairly prolific author.

692
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:28,920
Okay.

693
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,840
But basically she was, and they were living or she was living, I think they were living

694
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,880
in New York or just outside of New York City.

695
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,960
And she went to this beach house for, I don't know, a week or a month or something.

696
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,720
And she was basically just talking about how there's all these societal pressures on her

697
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,720
kind of just as a woman or an adult.

698
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:53,520
And hey, we've got friends, but when I go hang out with my friends, we've only got limited

699
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:59,240
time to hang out, so we're always just talking and we're not just like quiet with each other.

700
00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:00,240
You know what I mean?

701
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:06,200
And just kind of like using her vacation at the beach to kind of like what you said, you

702
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,560
know, you need to go out in the woods and be alone for a little bit.

703
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,240
That's where you get your thinking done.

704
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:13,840
You know, that's where you can be introspective.

705
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,880
And so it was very, very interesting and I really enjoyed the book.

706
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,560
It was really good, you know?

707
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,160
And so like going out there, but she's talking about all these different pressures and all

708
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:24,160
of this stuff.

709
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:29,360
And so, you know, thinking about, you know, emails now at work or like if you don't respond

710
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,800
to the email within five minutes and it's like, no, that's what the chat is for.

711
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,240
That's what the messaging is for.

712
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,680
You don't email me and expect me to get back to you.

713
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,560
We talked about this on a previous episode where you're like, I check my email like once

714
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:40,600
or twice a day.

715
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:47,640
And then I'm also reading The Dawn of Everything, which I guess is kind of like the counterpoint

716
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:52,700
or different train of thought as the book Sapiens, which I have but haven't started

717
00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:53,700
to read yet.

718
00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:59,040
But they're going through and kind of a lot of these anthropologists are trying to figure

719
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,600
out where like inequality came from, right?

720
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:10,640
And so The Dawn of Everything is trying to focus on American societies before Europeanization,

721
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,640
which is a term I think, right?

722
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:13,640
Colonialism.

723
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:14,960
Yeah, something like that.

724
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,360
And basically it's interesting and I don't, you know, like I'm not an historian and I'm

725
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,520
not an anthropologist, but it's fascinating because they're talking about the French,

726
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:29,400
you know, and like, I don't know, 17 something came over and they're talking to the Wendats

727
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:34,480
and the Algonquins and they're like, we're so much better than you and we've got all

728
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:35,480
this stuff.

729
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,280
And they're like, wait, so you take all your orders from a king?

730
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,520
Like our chief can't even tell us what to do.

731
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,900
If we don't want to do it, we just don't do it, you know?

732
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:49,840
And so it was kind of like, and the women were not, they were, I guess, sexually liberated

733
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:56,400
in the tribes, some of the tribes anyway, where they could kind of choose, until they

734
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,440
got married anyway, they could kind of like do whatever they wanted with whoever they

735
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,960
wanted until they were married.

736
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:08,200
But you know, I don't know, it was kind of interesting because the native tribes were

737
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:13,880
like, we don't have to follow that kind of, you know, I don't, I can't remember.

738
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,200
I can't remember the word for it, but the, like the rule of just somebody who's different

739
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,600
than you, you know, like a monarch or whatever.

740
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:29,200
And you know, and I guess the concept of having beggars in France was like mind blowing to

741
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,480
these tribes because they kind of take care of their own.

742
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,680
I mean, certainly there were some tribes members that were kind of, you know, heavy air quotes,

743
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,920
more wealthy than others or had more status or had more whatever, but everybody ate.

744
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,600
Well, that's interesting.

745
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,360
That's interesting.

746
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:52,560
This is very loosely related, but in the United States, we're, at least in the dialogue, people

747
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,280
are obsessed with freedom, you know?

748
00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:03,160
And it's kind of humorous because most people spend the majority of their life working.

749
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,200
And during my work hours, I'm not free to do what I want to do.

750
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,000
Like I'm a cog in the machine, just like everybody else.

751
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,640
I have very little autonomy.

752
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:18,400
I mean, my job's a little different where I do have a lot of autonomy in how I do things,

753
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,480
but I'm always responding to emergencies.

754
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,720
So I do have to go and take care of this stuff.

755
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:27,680
You know, I don't really have the choice to just slough it off and do whatever I want.

756
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:34,560
I mean, you have autonomy in some sense, you know, same with me, you know, like I'm salaried

757
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:35,740
and I work from home.

758
00:42:35,740 --> 00:42:39,920
So there's, but there's stuff that I have to do regardless of how stupid I think it

759
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,640
is to have to do it.

760
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:42,640
Yeah.

761
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:48,040
And there's a lot of people, you know, we have not unique jobs, but we have good careers

762
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:49,840
going on.

763
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,840
A lot of people don't have any autonomy at their work.

764
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:58,120
If you're working on an assembly line or something, or a call center, or a call center or for

765
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:05,040
Amazon or Elon Musk, if you're one of those two employees that are still left.

766
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:11,080
You know, there's a plenty of horror stories about American manufacturing.

767
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,680
Not necessarily manufacturing as it is like the assembly line type work, you know, or

768
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:21,280
if you had to work in an office under your supervisor directly all the time, I imagine

769
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,040
that it's not very liberating.

770
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:25,920
That's not fun.

771
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:31,680
No, maybe that's why there's so much obsession with freedom is because people aren't free

772
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:32,680
for the most part.

773
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,640
Well, that was kind of the interesting point about at least this, these few chapters I've

774
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,400
read in the Dawn of Everything where the French thought they were more free than the native

775
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,800
tribes, but they really weren't in comparison.

776
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,920
I mean, the French had more, I guess, let's say like technological advances.

777
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:56,000
I don't think, did any of the native tribes have like written words?

778
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:57,000
Like?

779
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,680
I don't think so.

780
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,400
And well, no, that's not true because the Aztecs and the Mayans.

781
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:03,400
Yeah, they did.

782
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:08,360
But like the North American tribes, I don't know if they really had written stuff or maybe

783
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,560
they had kind of like hieroglyphs or something.

784
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:12,560
I don't think so.

785
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:19,280
I think that, what the heck they call them, like the Mississippian civilization that predated

786
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,000
colonialization.

787
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,920
I think they might've had written records.

788
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,400
I think the Navajo might've had written records, but they were more of a farming type society.

789
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,400
They were hunter gatherers.

790
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,240
It was sort of the Mississippian culture.

791
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:34,240
They were farmers.

792
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:35,240
Okay.

793
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:39,160
Because that was the interesting thing is like the French were saying that they were

794
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:44,440
free and they wanted the native tribes to be free and the native tribes are like, you

795
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:45,440
guys aren't free.

796
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,000
Like you tell me about this king all the time and like all these things you have to do and

797
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,960
your like obligations and that's not freedom.

798
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,320
Like somebody, if the chief tells me to go like kill an elk, if I don't feel like it,

799
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,560
I'm just like, nah, you know, like whatever.

800
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:00,560
Right.

801
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:01,560
So, I mean, I don't know.

802
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:02,560
I do what I want.

803
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:03,560
Interesting.

804
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:10,080
Yeah, it's, this is a total tangent, but writing systems usually come about when you have to

805
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,120
take a stock of surpluses and grains and things like that.

806
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:15,720
So the numbering system comes up.

807
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:16,720
Okay.

808
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:17,720
Yeah.

809
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:20,720
And then the writing system comes about so that you could say, you know, I have so many

810
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:21,720
bushes of wheat store.

811
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:25,120
Especially if you have debts, you need writing.

812
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,120
Right.

813
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:27,120
Debt and taxes.

814
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:28,120
Yes.

815
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:33,320
Yeah, those are the first, well, this is years ago when I was learning about like the ancient

816
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:39,720
Near East, but the first written records that we had at least then were tax reports.

817
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:46,920
So I guess government hasn't changed for, you know, 7,000 years.

818
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:54,920
I mean, there's a fair amount of writing down the spoken word stories, you know, that have

819
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,720
passed down orally through generations.

820
00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:01,360
You know, as a way of like preserving them.

821
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:07,000
But it's interesting because as soon as you start writing, you kind of lose the oral tradition

822
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,640
as like a side effect.

823
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,000
Oh, of course.

824
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,240
Of course.

825
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:20,040
The Navajo claim that they still have a active oral tradition with a lot of their ceremonies

826
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:27,160
that resulted from the persecution by the Catholics, the Spanish Catholics down there.

827
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,920
And of course, there's no way to verify that because they're not sharing that information

828
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,800
with outside of their culture.

829
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:34,800
Yeah.

830
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,160
So we have to take it on their word, which is a reason to believe in lying.

831
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:39,160
Well, yeah.

832
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,040
And there'd be no way to check.

833
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,120
Like you're not going to infiltrate the ceremonies.

834
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,120
No, we're not going to infiltrate the Navajo.

835
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:49,120
Yeah.

836
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,120
So, you know, I don't know.

837
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,160
But I mean, if they're doing that, then that's cool.

838
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,640
Like that's neat.

839
00:46:54,640 --> 00:47:00,200
I sometimes wonder like if we still did like the oral traditions, maybe we wouldn't have

840
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,000
like the Star Wars sequel trilogy be so bad writing wise.

841
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,000
Oh, but we were talking about that.

842
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,960
My buddies and I here and if they would have brought back Darth Jar Jar movie nine.

843
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:12,960
Yeah, yeah.

844
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,280
I would have forgiven them all their sins.

845
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:16,280
Yeah.

846
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:21,120
Like if you're going to fuck it up, just fuck it up hard and don't be ashamed.

847
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:22,120
So.

848
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,600
Well, it's not even fucking it up.

849
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:29,240
Darth Jar Jar's, you know, is a fan favorite theory, we'll say.

850
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:30,240
He is.

851
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:31,240
He is.

852
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:32,240
He's a mine.

853
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:33,240
Yeah.

854
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:37,040
So where are you at in your stick?

855
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:38,280
I got two inches left or so.

856
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,080
OK, I probably I've got like four inches left, but I was fighting it for a long time and

857
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,320
I still am kind of poking it every once in a while to keep it loose.

858
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:46,320
I don't know, man.

859
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:47,960
It's just this one.

860
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,640
This one stick is is not very good draw wise.

861
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,760
It tastes fine.

862
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:54,760
Sure.

863
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:55,760
Well, maybe we'll have to redo it.

864
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:56,760
I think I have more of these.

865
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:57,760
Yeah, I don't know.

866
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,520
I mean, it's I don't know if it's like I'm not saying it's not good enough to smoke again,

867
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:06,000
but it'd be one where it'd be like I'll smoke it again, but probably not on the show.

868
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,000
Sure.

869
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,920
You know, and I understand that there's a lot of, you know, manufacturing variances

870
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:16,160
and and maybe because my humidor is running a little little higher than it normally does

871
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,720
humidity wise.

872
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:18,720
It's contributing.

873
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:23,320
But, you know, torpedoes, like, you know, if you said, you know, a lot of people need

874
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,240
to poke the torpedoes, maybe I'm just not aware of that.

875
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:29,320
So I've seen them.

876
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:30,320
I've seen people do it.

877
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:31,320
I don't know if it's necessary.

878
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:32,320
I've never had to.

879
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,720
I've never had that much of an issue myself.

880
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:36,720
Yeah.

881
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:40,120
And this one was fine for the first, I think, third, the first third.

882
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,800
It was but then about, you know, a third of the way in, I was getting no smoke in my

883
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:50,760
mouth and it was and I'm not and I'm not I'm not I'm not stressed and I'm not like clamping

884
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:51,760
down with my teeth.

885
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,360
Like there's not bite marks in the stick.

886
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:58,160
So it's not I'm not smoking it incorrectly as far as I know.

887
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,840
Mine's actually now I have like two inches left.

888
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:01,840
It's getting a little soft.

889
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:02,840
Okay.

890
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,880
I mean, which is to be expected because it was a fairly long stick.

891
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,880
I think we had six inches like the retoros.

892
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,600
And they're a fairly narrow gauge.

893
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:12,600
Yeah.

894
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:13,600
Maybe the 54.

895
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:18,560
I don't know the actual stats for anybody who's wondering.

896
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:19,680
I did not look it up.

897
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,360
I'm just guessing from experience.

898
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:22,360
Yeah.

899
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,200
And that has a tendency to get a little sour.

900
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:25,200
Oh, there we go.

901
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:26,200
Now it's not sour.

902
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,200
I let it sit for a couple of minutes.

903
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,200
Yeah.

904
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,320
So yeah, I mean, it's interesting, like the concept of freedom.

905
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,640
And I think it I think it we can tie it back and I think it'll make sense.

906
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,280
It could just be reaching and stretching on our part.

907
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:47,400
But the concept of freedom and what you're allowed to do or what freedom means to you.

908
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,920
And if you're a fan of Team America, freedom costs a buck oh five.

909
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,760
But probably now with inflation like 350.

910
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,920
But it's like you want everybody to be free.

911
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,440
You want everybody to have freedom and be happy.

912
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,000
And no, you and I want that.

913
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,920
I think a lot of people say they want freedom for them, but nobody else really mean that

914
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,880
they want exactly exactly.

915
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,400
I want people to be free to do what they want as long as what they want isn't hurting other

916
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:17,400
people.

917
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:18,400
Well, yeah.

918
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,320
And and other people are like, I want everybody to be free as long as their their view of

919
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,680
freedom is the same as mine.

920
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,640
And that's just not freedom.

921
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,280
You know, and you and I want people to be free.

922
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,200
We've talked about this.

923
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,600
And by and large, I don't I don't care what people do.

924
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:40,400
You know, if you want to do really hard and dangerous drugs, that's on you.

925
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:47,320
You want to drive a 2004 mostly rusted out Honda Civic that you're trying to get to 400,000

926
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:48,320
miles.

927
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:49,320
That's on me.

928
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:50,320
I mean, you.

929
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:57,560
I mean, if you want to go backpacking and not bring any water and try to survive using

930
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,240
a filter and river water, that's your choice.

931
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:04,880
As long as you're of the age of majority.

932
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:05,880
Right.

933
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:06,880
Right.

934
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,000
I went winter camping and stuff before I was 18.

935
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,000
Oh, so did I.

936
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:14,720
But I went with, you know, like other adults in the Boy Scouts.

937
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:15,720
You know what I mean?

938
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:17,200
Like, oh, no, we might.

939
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,520
I went camping with like my other teenage friends.

940
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:21,520
Yeah.

941
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,280
It's easily kind of frozen.

942
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:26,560
Yeah.

943
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,000
So I wasn't bringing a wall tent and a heater like I do now.

944
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,840
Well, that's kind of the thing, man.

945
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:39,360
Like I've done so much camping for being in Boy Scouts since first grade that when somebody's

946
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:40,960
like, do you want to go camping?

947
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:41,960
Like you're good at it, right?

948
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:42,960
You're an Eagle Scout.

949
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,040
I'm like, well, I'm an Eagle Scout and I'm good at camping, but I'd really rather just

950
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:51,160
stay in a hotel where I can get a shower and, you know, like the continental breakfast or

951
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:52,160
whatever.

952
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,240
I don't really need to be out in the woods camping.

953
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:00,280
The term good at camping, is that said by people who don't know or who aren't, who haven't

954
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:01,280
gone camping?

955
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:02,520
I mean, how do you be bad at camping?

956
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,720
Oh, you can be really terrible at camping.

957
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:07,640
Let me tell you the ways.

958
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,440
You can put the rain fly on the wrong way or just decide you don't need a rain fly.

959
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:15,440
You can put your ground tarp on the wrong way so all the dew collects underneath your

960
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,960
tent and you wake up in an inch of water.

961
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,300
You can decide not to stake down your tent.

962
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:22,520
You can put your tent in a dangerous location.

963
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,040
You can not know how to start a fire.

964
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,720
You cannot bring the appropriate supplies that you need to take care of yourself while

965
00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:32,660
camping and then you have to rely on said Eagle Scout to bail you out of whatever situation

966
00:52:32,660 --> 00:52:33,660
you got yourself into.

967
00:52:33,660 --> 00:52:38,800
So there's lots of ways to be bad at camping and, you know, like I still enjoy camping.

968
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,360
We went to a big concert and we forgot our rain fly and I had to go buy a big ass tarp.

969
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:44,360
Okay.

970
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,880
But yeah, we thought, I thought it was in the bag with the tent.

971
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,580
But you at least knew it was missing and you needed it.

972
00:52:49,580 --> 00:52:55,120
So that's not, that's not the same as being bad at camping.

973
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:56,920
But you could, you could be bad at camping.

974
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,720
You can be bad at a lot of things and I'm bad at a lot of things too.

975
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:06,360
And I still enjoy camping, but I enjoy more being able to bring everything that I want

976
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,520
to bring and like a little bit more modern stuff.

977
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:17,280
I mean, I love, I bought a Dutch oven, you know, and I just love cooking in that thing

978
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,200
and just making food, but it takes a long time to cook in there.

979
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,800
And but it's really good food and it's easy cleanup and whatever.

980
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,760
And like sitting on the campfire and you know, but it's kind of like the weather has to be

981
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,280
good and I don't really want to go camp and if it's going to be raining the whole time

982
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,560
and I don't know, I guess I've done so much camping.

983
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:41,200
I'm kind of like a hermudgeon about camping now where it's like, yeah, I could, but I

984
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:42,400
mean, it's fun.

985
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,600
It's fun if you have the right people to go with, I guess is more so.

986
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:46,720
It certainly is.

987
00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:51,880
I know that I hate camping in the rain and, but I still go paddle fishing every year and

988
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,280
it rains or snows or both every fucking year.

989
00:53:55,280 --> 00:54:00,120
It's miserable every time.

990
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,920
Don't get stuck someplace without your tent.

991
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,520
I can tell you that I had to do that when you're asleep on the floor or somebody else's

992
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,520
tent.

993
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:09,520
That was no fun.

994
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,520
Yeah, that's the one thing.

995
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,680
I wouldn't call that bad at camping.

996
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,960
That was just bad at being stuck on an island.

997
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:23,400
Well, there's always those circumstances that come up and even no matter how much you try

998
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:33,000
and prepare, you're going to get caught at one point in something that was not ideal.

999
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:38,520
The one thing that I need to get yet is decent sleeping because as a kid, I could sleep on

1000
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:44,200
a one inch inflatable air mattress, but now I'm kind of like, I need something comfortable

1001
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:49,720
to sleep on when camping, but we've got a nice big tent.

1002
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:51,600
Yeah, we have a huge tent.

1003
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,680
We can fit a queen size bed in it and nightstands.

1004
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:55,680
Yeah.

1005
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:56,680
See, that's important.

1006
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,520
You didn't go to scout camp with a queen size bed and nightstands.

1007
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:08,520
There would have been all sorts of, let's just say, bullying.

1008
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:13,000
The Boy Scouts were bullies allegedly in Wisconsin.

1009
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,040
I think they're bullies everywhere.

1010
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:21,280
I don't mean it in a super mean way, but you certainly would have gotten some jokes

1011
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:26,280
thrown your way if you were like, well, okay, so can somebody help me carry my nightstands

1012
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:27,280
into my tent?

1013
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,920
And people would be like, what?

1014
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:37,040
But for scout camp, we slept in canvas A-frame tents and there was no floor.

1015
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,400
They were old military style.

1016
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,560
So you had to pack all of your stuff.

1017
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,320
You'd get one of those totes from Walmart or Target or something and you'd pack all

1018
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,680
your stuff in there because it was a dirt floor and you were sleeping on the army cots,

1019
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,800
also made out of canvas.

1020
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:57,600
And when it would rain, the water would run through your tent like a river.

1021
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,840
So if you packed a duffel bag, all your stuff's wet.

1022
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:07,680
So you're not really bringing a queen size bed and nightstands to that.

1023
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,000
That's when Sarah and I go together.

1024
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:17,000
This year we're going to go minimalistic and I'm going to sleep in a hammock for paddle

1025
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,000
fishing.

1026
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,000
Oh yeah.

1027
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,760
We'll see, we'll see how that goes.

1028
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:27,080
I got all the underquilt and the good sleeping bag and insulated pad and all that sort of

1029
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:31,840
junk so that when it gets down to zero, I'm not going to freeze to death.

1030
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,720
That's the biggest goal.

1031
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:36,560
Might not be comfortable, but I won't die.

1032
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,080
Yeah, for sure.

1033
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:40,080
So we'll see.

1034
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,640
It'll probably end up being 65 degrees and sunny and beautiful the whole time.

1035
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:44,640
That's the hope.

1036
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:45,640
That is the hope.

1037
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:46,640
That is the hope.

1038
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:47,640
Yep, yep.

1039
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:51,280
I have about an inch left.

1040
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:55,400
It's not burning my fingers, but you're not enjoying your cigar anymore.

1041
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:56,680
Yeah, probably not.

1042
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:58,680
I mean, it's fine.

1043
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,200
I've been poking it.

1044
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:01,200
I don't know.

1045
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:02,200
It's just so tight.

1046
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:03,200
It's so tight.

1047
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:04,200
It's so tight.

1048
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:05,200
Yeah.

1049
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,240
So for those of our listeners who might fall asleep listening to us, I hope you wake up

1050
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:12,240
when I'm like, so tight.

1051
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:16,320
It's a shout out to the comments section.

1052
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,720
But anyway, that we don't even have, that we don't even have.

1053
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:25,280
But maybe we will at some point.

1054
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:29,200
Maybe we will find a way to interact with some of you out there.

1055
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:35,720
I hope that you haven't been enraged by our topic choice this episode.

1056
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:41,640
Like Mike and I said, we want everybody to be free to make their own decisions with the

1057
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:48,840
understanding that at certain ages, bigger decisions aren't necessarily the forte of

1058
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,200
young people.

1059
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:51,480
But I really do.

1060
00:57:51,480 --> 00:58:00,380
I feel like there needs to be some protection for youth and there needs to be a logical

1061
00:58:00,380 --> 00:58:07,360
exception to the main rule where it is necessary because, you know, and you and I both said

1062
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:08,360
it, like it's necessary.

1063
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:13,720
Like that's the only cure for the gender dysmorphia.

1064
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:14,720
Thanks for listening.

1065
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:15,720
Be safe.

1066
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:42,720
Have fun.