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Welcome to Mike Loves Ahsoka.

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I'm Nate.

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And I'm Mike.

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I'm sorry.

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This is Nice Ashes, not Mike Loves Ahsoka podcast.

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That was last episode.

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I was pretty salty for that one.

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Little bit.

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But you left no question on your true loyalties.

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So that was good, I guess, in that sense.

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We are smoking the CAO Italia.

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And this is kind of rounding out our little mini foray into the CAO Country series.

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We only had the, what was it, three?

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Three or four, Mike?

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We only had the three.

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I thought I had a fourth, but we didn't.

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No big deal.

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But there are several more and I think that we should do more.

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I like these.

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Yeah, these are good.

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They've been all pretty good.

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So I'm just going to light up here and then we can start talking about the stick and the

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topic.

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All right.

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This one's, I don't know.

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I feel like Carmelee is kind of like what comes to mind.

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Not like a sweet Carmelee though.

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Not a sweet one, but like, I don't know.

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That's probably not the right word.

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It's good.

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It's a pretty, I don't want to say typical startup, but a lot of cigars start the same,

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have the same starting notes.

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You know what I mean?

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And I'm pairing mine with a Lagunitas Hazy Wonder IPA.

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Oh, very nice.

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Very nice.

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I am drinking a Stone Fence and then after that I have a Nord East lined up if I make

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it through that.

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Perfect.

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I'm sure you will, Mike.

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I'm sure you will.

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Possibly.

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I have faith in you.

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I believe in you.

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You can do this.

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Oh, perfect.

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Heck yeah.

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So if we do have any technical difficulties for all of our listeners, I do have my puppy

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in the room here with me.

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So she may need to go inside if she gets a little antsy, but we're hoping she'll be

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fine.

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She needs to take a nap.

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Yes.

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And on another technical note, this is our second recording using our new remote podcasting

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software.

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I was pretty pleased with the output from our last episode.

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So we are giving this another try.

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Heck yes.

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So we have a wonderful episode known as a Mike knows episode and the topic is going

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to be the Amish.

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All right.

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Do you know anything about the Amish, Nate?

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I know a little bit about the Amish.

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My Sarah used to kind of, I guess directly but indirectly, directly worked with the Amish.

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She used to work at a farm hub and they used to get, I don't know if they still do, some

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produce from the Amish.

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So she would have to go and pick stuff up.

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When people ask how Sarah and I met, I always jokingly say that, hey, we met online.

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It was AmishSingles.com and it was Roomsperga.

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And so it's kind of really that last little bit that makes people kind of pause and say,

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maybe they did meet on AmishSingles.

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So I guess I know that they allow technology up to a certain period of time, let's say

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like the late 1700s or something.

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I'm sure I'm wrong.

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And they don't do any modern technology.

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And they do have when their children become of a certain age, just pulling numbers out

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of thin air, let's say 16, I don't know.

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They have something called Roomsperga where if the child wants, they can go for a couple

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weeks and experience what the rest of life is, but they have to choose to leave or stay.

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If they leave, the rest of their family, I think is shunned.

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And they're really good at putting up barns.

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So I think that's kind of my knowledge on the Amish in a nutshell.

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I am so happy that you said that because everything you just said is a Hollywoodization of the

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Amish.

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It's part truth and part fantasy.

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Yes.

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So we'll get into that.

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So I remember watching Harrison Ford in The Witness and there's a lot of Amish stuff in

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there.

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And then for Richer and Poorer, I think it was a Tim Allen, Chris the Alley movie where

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they are hiding out in the Amish.

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So mostly that.

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And Kingpin, right?

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The documentary.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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And it was Randy Quaid was a member of the Amish.

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So wow.

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Can you believe that everybody?

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We just listed off three movies that Mike has actually seen.

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I have seen all of them.

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Yes, I have seen all of them, which is fascinating.

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Next episode, I'm sure we'll talk about the movies I've been watching lately.

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So I'm going to do a quick breakdown of the history of the Amish and then we can talk

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about the particulars and why the Hollywoodization of the Amish is a manipulation and potentially

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a lie.

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So the Amish are a split off of the Swiss Anabaptist movements of the 1700s.

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In Switzerland, there was the Anabaptists and there was this guy named Amon and he split

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apart from the other Anabaptists and they called them Amish as like a slur, I guess.

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And then in the United States, these Swiss groups moved from Switzerland to the United

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States in the early 1800s, late 1700s, and then a separate group moved in the later 1800s

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and early 1900s.

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The Mennonites that we have here in North America came largely from the later group

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of Amish that moved here and then the Amish, as we would think of the Amish, came from

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the earlier group that moved.

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So the Amish have been here for 200 years, about, been here a long time.

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And of course they moved to Pennsylvania during the colonial period because Pennsylvania had

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religious freedom.

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In Europe, they don't have any Amish, but they do have Mennonites.

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So the Amish are kind of the extremists of the Anabaptist world and even that's kind

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of a misnomer because we think of the Amish as a homogenous group, but they're not.

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So each church has their own church document called an Ordnung, which is just the ordinance

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and the families in that church vote on the rules that everybody else has to follow.

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Each church usually splits if they start to get over 40 families.

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Most of them have 20 to 30 families per church.

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So in an Amish community, as we would think of it, like an Amish little area, there's

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really probably five or six or ten different Amish communities in that community and each

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one of those individual churches will have their own individual rules and they have rules

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on everything.

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So here in Minnesota, we have some Schwartzentruber Amish, which are hyper conservative.

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We also have New Order Amish and then New Order Amish can drive vehicles and they can

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own cell phones and they have a few different religious beliefs.

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Some of them believe in Jesus, believe in Jesus saves you and all this other sort of

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things.

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Do you have any questions yet?

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Yes, I do have questions.

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I guess first, I'm glad you brought up the Mennonites because I was going to ask about

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the Mennonites.

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And so it seems to me like this might be some sort of kind of evolutionary window because

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the early Amish or the first Amish that came over were then separated from the rest of

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the European Amish, let's say.

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And the European Amish seems to have continued evolving into the Mennonites and then they

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came over.

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So I guess it's kind of like interesting to have two stages of evolution along that path.

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I guess my second question, and we'll probably get into this, is when I think of Amish, I

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do think of religion in some sense, but I don't know if religion is enough because it

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really is kind of like a full blown way of life.

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It's from, you know, like Hollywood stuff.

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And so I don't know if there's religious doctrine that backs like we shan't use anything

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manufactured beyond 1812 or something.

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That's how we view it.

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That's not how they view it.

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So that goes into the ordnance.

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So let's say you're in a community and there's 30 families or at a church.

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There's a bishop for the church and then there's priests and there's probably like three priests,

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one priest for 10 people around there.

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Preachers is what they call them.

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And then there's deacons.

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So out of these 40 families or 30 families, only the men get to vote on the rules.

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And in the rules, they'll be like, okay, we're going to allow you to have a horse and buggy.

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On the horse and buggy, you have to have black paint on the sides and white paint on the

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top or white paint on the sides and black paint on the top.

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Or you know, it gets, they're very concerned with appearances and fashion, hyper focused.

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I'm talking one group will say that the sleeve on your shirt, which is the length, you know,

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of your shirt cuff, has to be three inches long.

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It can't be two and a half.

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It can't be three and a half.

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It has to be three on the nuts.

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And then the community next door will say, no, it has to be two and a half.

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And then you have to follow the rules, right?

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So the buggies, some of the new order Amish, and there's a gradient going all the way from

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hyper conservative, which is the people who allow the least number amount of technology

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all the way to there's Amish that can drive tractors and other motorized vehicles, as

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long as they don't have vehicle tabs on it.

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And they've designed trailers that hook up to a PTO shaft.

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And these guys will hook this tractor up to this trailer and the PTO will run the trailer

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and they'll go like 45 miles an hour down the road in a frigging tractor because they're

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running it off the PTO instead of the actual engine.

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Yeah.

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So there's workarounds for all this stuff for the Amish.

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You know, it's all a matter of what rules does your church have in their ordnance and

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you have to follow those rules and everybody votes on it.

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So like, for example, there's an Amish, a device called an Amish telephone.

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It was made, it was designed to made in the seventies and some of these Amish communities

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allow it.

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And it looks like an old, old style telephone with the handle.

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And then instead of having buttons, they have round holes.

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And then you take a metal rod and you short out the holes because certain, certain ordnance

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will allow you to have the phone as long as it doesn't have a button mechanism in it.

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See what I'm saying?

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It's all what rules did they set?

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So some of these groups will have, you're allowed to wear denim, but it can't be tribal

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in denim.

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It has to be single, single origin cotton denim, stuff like that.

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Like they're fashion police.

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They're obsessed with how you look and you know what I mean?

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Okay.

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So they have rules on the hats, you know, like how long is the brim of the hat and married

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men have to have a different length of brim.

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How far can you roll your sleeve up your shirt when you're at work, you know?

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Lest we tempt the ladies.

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Do they have rules on married men have beards?

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Yes.

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That all varies.

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The exact rule varies by the ordnance.

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Okay.

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The, like Kenton and Swartz and Schroober old order Amish types, the real conservatives,

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if you're not married, you shave.

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Once you get married, you have to have a beard, but you cannot have a mustache.

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And there's a reason for not having a mustache.

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And then you can't shave.

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You cannot cut your beard at all.

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And the hairstyle of men is determined.

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The real old school ones say you have to have a bowl cut.

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And then the new order say you have to have hair down to your shoulders if you're a man.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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For the most part, again, every ordnance varies, but all of them say you can't have a mustache

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more or less because mustaches were associated with militarism in the 1800s.

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So it's just a goal that goes back to those days.

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And the women are never allowed to cut their hair for the most part.

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Oh yes.

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So what if they got into like a weird kind of like thresher accident and they needed

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to cut the hair to save somebody who was being solely pulled in?

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Well usually women don't work on threshers.

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I understand that.

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Or like a weird spinning wheel type of situation.

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I don't know.

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Most likely they would cut the hair and then the bishops would find out and they would

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get shunned.

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Okay.

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Shunning isn't necessarily permanent.

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It's like a set amount of punishment time.

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And then if the church, the men in the church feel that you changed your ways, they vote

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on whether or not they're going to allow you back into the church.

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Okay.

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And so I feel like in a freak spinning wheel accident, the shunning probably wouldn't be

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because the hair had to be cut to save them, but because they were careless in their work.

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It would be because they cut their hair.

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Oh, it wouldn't be because they're careless in their work?

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Like how do you change your ways from not cutting your hair?

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00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:35,920
I'll tell you a story.

243
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:41,600
So I got into this because I started watching this Eli Yoder makes videos online.

244
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,240
He's done a ton of interviews with ex-Amish and he's from Kenton, Ohio, which is generally

245
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:51,000
considered to be the second most strict Amish order in the country.

246
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:56,760
They had a kid get into a terrible accident while they were doing, like they were haying,

247
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,400
I think something like that.

248
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,360
They're not allowed to bail their hay.

249
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:05,000
They're like cutting it down and piling it in and then carrying the hay into the barn

250
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,000
loose.

251
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,400
And this kid was up in the barn and fell out of the barn and was dying.

252
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:15,200
So they called the English and they brought out a helicopter and they chopper this kid

253
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,040
to the hospital and he survived.

254
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:18,040
Okay.

255
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,040
So the parents of the kid were shunned because they allowed their son to go through the air

256
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,120
and being in the air is considered horribly and a sin.

257
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,720
So they shunned his parents for allowing him to be flown in a helicopter to the hospital

258
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,760
to prevent him from dying.

259
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:31,760
Okay.

260
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:36,520
But one, you said it's not necessarily permanent and then two, just to clarify for our listeners,

261
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,320
the English is what the Amish calls anybody who's not Amish, right?

262
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:41,320
Anybody who's not Amish, yes.

263
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,040
Well, you got to remember.

264
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,760
Anybody who's white that's not Amish.

265
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:45,760
Right.

266
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,640
So the Bingo began during the colony days.

267
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,400
So they were all English largely in Pennsylvania at the time.

268
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,080
So a lot of their terms come from that old timey sort of stuff.

269
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,520
And yes, the length of the shunning is determined by the bishop who's like the head of the little

270
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,120
church that runs these 40 families.

271
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,360
And then it's for whatever.

272
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,600
And they have, we'll get into it later, but they have some pretty serious issues with

273
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,600
various abuses in these communities.

274
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,360
Things that we would consider to be unforgivable.

275
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,960
And that's a lot of these Amish people are talking about, ex-Amish are talking about

276
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:26,560
it because now they're being exposed to the English world and it's like, oh, oh, that's

277
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,480
not good.

278
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,360
Things aren't 1800s anymore, huh?

279
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,160
So it's very, very interesting.

280
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:44,080
So how much awareness do these, let's just say the more conservative Ordnungs, how much

281
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:52,140
awareness do they have of like the strides in social justice and equality and technology

282
00:15:52,140 --> 00:15:56,040
that us English have done?

283
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,520
There's a gradient.

284
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,280
The super conservatives are called swarchantrubers.

285
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,120
They are not super aware of what's going on in the outside world.

286
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,840
And the women especially are, they don't vote, they don't leave the house for the most part

287
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:11,280
unless it's to go to church.

288
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,760
They don't interact with people from outside of their immediate family.

289
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,520
So they don't know a whole lot.

290
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:22,640
The men in the swarchantrubers largely do not work outside of farming and Amish-y type

291
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,240
of stuff.

292
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,200
The more liberal you get, the more these guys are getting into construction, the more the

293
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,520
women are allowed to participate in the churches.

294
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:38,240
There are some new order Amish that allow the women to vote in the churches.

295
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,400
So there's a wide gradient, but the more conservative you get, the less they're aware of what's

296
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,320
going on.

297
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:51,360
Do the more conservative ones sell their produce to the English at all or is that kind of more

298
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:52,360
liberal?

299
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,000
They all sell stuff to the English, all of them.

300
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,000
That's how they make their money.

301
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,720
It's a matter of level of exposure to the English.

302
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:05,960
The real conservative ones would have an appointed person to deal with the English.

303
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,640
They're not going to be selling jars of jam out of the front of their house in the summer.

304
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,520
So if you drive around certain Amish communities in Minnesota, especially, there's a lot more

305
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:16,760
liberal Amish here.

306
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,560
It seems like the farther west you go, the more liberal they become because they're newer

307
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:22,560
communities.

308
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:29,320
If they sell stuff right in front of the house, you drive up there and buy some produce or

309
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,280
jam or whatever.

310
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,280
Those people have cell phones.

311
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:37,400
These are allowed cell phones for work because a lot of them do construction and a lot of

312
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:44,200
them are allowed to use power tools, own and use power tools for work, stuff like that.

313
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,160
So some of them own trucks.

314
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,520
Like, yeah, it's very interesting.

315
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,800
The more conservative ones will still get rides, but they'll have like an Amish ride

316
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,480
service and people's full-time job is just going around picking Amish up, like a cab

317
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:58,480
system.

318
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:05,200
I know I've seen Amish families in like Walmarts and things.

319
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,760
And I imagine those would have to be more liberal groups.

320
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,720
No, the older order Amish would go to Walmart.

321
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,200
They wouldn't bring their kids and stuff though.

322
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:13,200
You know what I mean?

323
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:18,160
It'd be like the father and maybe one of the sons would go and get supplies from Walmart.

324
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:19,160
Yeah.

325
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:20,600
So let's talk about that.

326
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,120
What supplies are they getting that they can't make on their own, I guess?

327
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,760
They don't make their own underwear.

328
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,120
Some of the Amish- I mean, they could though, couldn't they?

329
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:32,040
They buy underwear for the most part.

330
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,040
They could though, yeah.

331
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:34,120
They buy cloth.

332
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,800
So a lot of the Walmarts, especially in the rural parts, sell cloth and they buy the cloth

333
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,040
to sew the clothes, the women sew all the clothes.

334
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,040
Okay.

335
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,040
Okay.

336
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,040
Yeah, yeah.

337
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,240
And they buy- But I mean, but they could make their own cloth,

338
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,960
but that'd be a whole like operation.

339
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:47,960
Right.

340
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:48,960
That'd be a whole operation.

341
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:49,960
They don't make their own cloth.

342
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,240
They interact with the English world.

343
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:58,680
The schools use toilet paper and some of the houses have toilet paper in them.

344
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:03,480
The standard stuff, disposable diapers, a lot of times they keep disposable diapers on hand,

345
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,640
even though they're like emergency use only type of thing.

346
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,640
Okay.

347
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,400
What do you- And I know I could look this up, but you might just happen to know because

348
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,360
this is kind of your area of expertise is what did we do before toilet paper?

349
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:23,160
I know some cultures use like a hand, but- Yeah, they wash it off with water.

350
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,160
Okay.

351
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,160
Wash it off with water.

352
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,680
Like an Amish bidet?

353
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,360
Weeds and all sorts of things like that, but yeah.

354
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:33,520
And that's also interesting is that the more conservative you get, the less the Amish people

355
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,240
bathe because they have more restrictions on what kind of water they're allowed to use.

356
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,040
So if you're in a no-water Amish, you're allowed to have running water in your house, but if

357
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,080
you're an old order Amish, you're not.

358
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,040
So in order to bathe, you have to warm up the water on the stove and pots, pour it into

359
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,280
a tub and then drain the tub and stuff like that.

360
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:52,280
Okay.

361
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:53,280
Yeah, yeah.

362
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,280
Yep.

363
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,280
So it's very interesting.

364
00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:00,120
And they don't have terribly good teeth either from what I remember.

365
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,040
They avoid going to the doctor and the dentist because they don't believe in insurance.

366
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:05,040
Yeah.

367
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,040
Yes.

368
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:12,760
I mean, I guess I don't believe in insurance just because healthcare should be free, but-

369
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,560
That's a totally separate issue.

370
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,560
Yes.

371
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,680
Not Amish related issue.

372
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:23,960
I mean, there's beliefs and then there's real world stuff, at least for you and I.

373
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:24,960
Right.

374
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:30,600
I would love universal healthcare, but until then I got to take care of myself.

375
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,720
So you said rum shrink up.

376
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:39,680
So in some liberal communities, the kids are allowed to have, they don't leave home, but

377
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:45,320
they're allowed to have some English, what are they called?

378
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:46,320
Luxuries.

379
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:47,320
Okay.

380
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,840
So the new order Amish, they'll allow their kids to get driver's licenses and pickup trucks.

381
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,520
And the new order Amish, those kids have social security numbers and things like that when

382
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:56,520
they're born.

383
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:57,520
Okay.

384
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,240
And they'll exploit that by the way.

385
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,960
So in a new order Amish home, let's say the dad does construction and he has a son that's

386
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,720
16, he'll have that kid drive him around in his pickup truck and go to job sites and work

387
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,440
with them and you know what I mean?

388
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,760
And until the kid turns 21, they're not allowed to keep any money for the most part in the

389
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:15,760
Amish.

390
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,800
They'll have some money that from 14, which is when they're done with school until they're

391
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,520
21, every dime that kid makes working goes to their parents.

392
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:24,520
Okay.

393
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,520
So let's say you're running, you're doing construction and you have five kids between

394
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:35,280
the ages of 14 and 21, they're all working for you and you're taking all their money.

395
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:41,580
But rum shrink up for the old order Amish, you don't leave home, you don't go and join

396
00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:43,080
the English for anything.

397
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:49,160
They hold, they call them sing alongs, which are basically like Amish dances for teenage

398
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,280
youths to go and meet dates.

399
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:52,280
Right?

400
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,280
Okay.

401
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,280
That's your rum shrink.

402
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,920
So you get to go hang out with other Amish kids and do like a dating type scene.

403
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,240
Like we were teenagers, you know, you go to like a school dance, they have like Amish

404
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,680
dances and stuff.

405
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:10,880
The biggest rule is that if you're an older Amish, you're not allowed to go on a date

406
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,000
with somebody from a different ordnance that has less strict rules.

407
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:21,600
So your Bishop gets to tell you which communities you're allowed to date from.

408
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,640
You can pick any of the girls or boys.

409
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:24,640
Yep.

410
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,840
You're allowed to pick any individual person you want, but the Bishop tells you this church,

411
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,940
this church, this church, and this church are good.

412
00:22:31,940 --> 00:22:34,660
This church, this church, and this church are off limits.

413
00:22:34,660 --> 00:22:38,940
So you're not allowed to date, you know, the girl across the street because she's part

414
00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:42,600
of a church that's more liberal because they allow the men to have a three and a half inch

415
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,800
brim hat instead of a three inch brim hat.

416
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,280
It's that sort of narrow ruling.

417
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:48,280
You know what I mean?

418
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,080
They're not much different, but they're different enough.

419
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,080
Yeah.

420
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:56,260
And do they have, are there many like homosexual Amish?

421
00:22:56,260 --> 00:22:57,260
Very interesting.

422
00:22:57,260 --> 00:23:04,600
So depending on the family, they may not know about how a baby is born until after they

423
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,520
are married and the Bishop explains to them that penis and vagina means baby.

424
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:15,000
So the girls are not allowed really to work outside the home unless there's no boys.

425
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,680
So they never see the animals breeding.

426
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,480
They never see babies born on the farm or any of that.

427
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,680
The boys are the only ones that ever get to see that.

428
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,480
They don't talk about homosexuality.

429
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,740
They don't talk about sex at all until they're already married.

430
00:23:28,740 --> 00:23:33,680
So no, there are no homosexual Amish.

431
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:40,800
They don't even know how babies are born until after they're married.

432
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:51,200
And I mean, I get that, but wouldn't they have to experiment with masturbation and that

433
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:58,080
kind of stuff just as a teenager, just thinking out loud here?

434
00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:59,840
You don't have to necessarily know all the details.

435
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,740
You have to know certain things feel good, right?

436
00:24:02,740 --> 00:24:05,120
We would think that they would have those issues.

437
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:09,800
I know that a lot of them say, a lot of the ex-Amish say that it's pathetic that they

438
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:15,280
don't have some sort of sex education when these kids get to puberty.

439
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:20,840
That relates to a lot of the abuses that are becoming more known about in the Amish community.

440
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,440
Let's put it that way.

441
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,160
That's rampant, I guess, rampant because of the churches.

442
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,080
We can talk about that later or we talk about it now, but that's a direct consequence of

443
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,000
the church and the way the shunning rules work.

444
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,000
Okay.

445
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:40,880
I guess then my question is, do you have more in the way of kind of general insight before

446
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,320
you want to leap into some of these abuses and other things?

447
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,800
I'm just thinking we should probably do a cigar check.

448
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,080
Oh yeah.

449
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,560
I'm not quite halfway, but pretty close.

450
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:51,560
It's good.

451
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:52,560
I'm liking it so far.

452
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,600
I like it so far.

453
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,600
It's pretty steady.

454
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,640
I wouldn't say overly complex.

455
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,640
Good flavor.

456
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:58,640
Good flavor.

457
00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,640
No, really simple.

458
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:00,640
Yep.

459
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:01,920
I've had one of these before.

460
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:02,920
Yeah.

461
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:03,920
It feels like it's well-made too.

462
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,040
Yeah, I like to see cigars.

463
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,600
They're good for the price point for sure.

464
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:10,600
Yeah.

465
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:11,600
Yeah.

466
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:20,120
So yeah, I guess before we get into that stuff, we can have some more rules or more information.

467
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:25,920
The way you get baptized is generally when you're 18, you have to go through like a version

468
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:32,400
of catechism for them and then the whole community, all the men have to vote that so-and-so is

469
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,360
being a good person according to our rules.

470
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:39,000
They're allowed to be baptized after you go through this process.

471
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,400
If one person says, no, they're not ready, you have to wait to be baptized until everybody

472
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,360
says you're ready to be baptized.

473
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,400
Then they do the whole ritual.

474
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:54,080
Then to seal the deal, you have to do all this ritualistic chanting type of thing, going

475
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,440
back and forth.

476
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,720
Then the men have to kiss the bishop on the lips and the girls have to kiss the bishop's

477
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,240
wife on the lips.

478
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,120
That seals their commitment to the ordinance for life.

479
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:06,120
Okay.

480
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:07,120
Yes.

481
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,960
I thought that was a very interesting detail, the kissing on the lips thing.

482
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,360
That's fucking weird, right?

483
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:16,160
They have to kiss the bishop on the lips every time they get done with the shunning or the

484
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,160
bishop's wife depending on it's a man or a woman.

485
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,240
You said there weren't homosexuals in the Amish, but what you're telling me kind of

486
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,040
sounds like there might be and it's the bishop.

487
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:31,440
It reminds me of India.

488
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,160
In India, there aren't homosexuals because they don't know about homosexuality because

489
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,680
they don't have sex education there.

490
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,160
It's not even thought about.

491
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,600
I'm sure there are definitely homosexuals in the Amish community just like they're everywhere,

492
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,400
but there's no method for them to act out on it because there's no knowledge of what's

493
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,400
going on.

494
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,400
You know what I mean?

495
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,040
The thing is so strict too that it's hard to act out on something that you may or may

496
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:00,840
not be sure of or that isn't talked about.

497
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,360
It's hidden on purpose a lot of it too.

498
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:08,760
We'll talk about that as well, but the bishops in most Amish communities, you're not allowed

499
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,600
to spy or sell a home or move or anything without permission of the bishop.

500
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,200
The bishop is the guy who's the interpreter of the ordinance and he enforces the ordinance's

501
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,320
rules and if you want to do anything, you have to get approval from that guy and he's

502
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,600
the one that's going to get you in trouble.

503
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,960
If you shine your buggy too many times and it's too shiny looking, you get in trouble

504
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:30,960
from the bishop.

505
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:31,960
You get shunned.

506
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,640
Or if you're drinking liquor or if your hat brim is too long or if your hat brim is turned

507
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,080
up or down or your shirt collars, whatever.

508
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,880
If you're a woman and you have too many pleats in your hat, one story was a woman had her

509
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,560
hat on and her strings on her hat were tied tight enough and she got shunned.

510
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:50,560
Stuff like that.

511
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,280
They're fashion police and your neighbors are watching you because there's an incentive

512
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,480
to turn each other into the bishop and get each other in trouble.

513
00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:59,480
That's the culture.

514
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:00,480
You know what I mean?

515
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:01,480
Yeah.

516
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,240
It's like you and I would say they're piddly nonsense rules, but to them, they're very

517
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:06,240
important.

518
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,240
I don't know.

519
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,240
It sounds kind of like my workplace.

520
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,240
Right.

521
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:16,160
Except I don't have to kiss my boss on the lips every time I get written up.

522
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,160
Right.

523
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,040
Every community is different.

524
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:24,920
The New Order, the majority of people leaving the Amish are Old Order Amish because it's

525
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:30,280
restrictive and people get really frustrated with the hypocrisies and with the judgment

526
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:36,280
and with the bullying and with the sort of corruption that's involved and they leave.

527
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,800
The New Order Amish and the Swartz and Trouber Amish, which are like the ultra conservatives,

528
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,440
they don't leave very often at all because the Swartz and Troubers are so isolated.

529
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,560
They don't know what the outside world is like.

530
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:53,280
The New Order Amish are like the women have rights and they can use modern stuff and it's

531
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,880
all about the lifestyle of being an Amish person.

532
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:02,760
It's not about like your jacket has to have snaps and your shirt has to have clear buttons

533
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,200
and there can only be three of them six inches apart.

534
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,120
They have very specific rules about how you're supposed to look and about what things are

535
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,120
supposed to be and if you don't follow them, you're in trouble.

536
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,800
And like the New Order Amish, they're allowed to have LED lights on their buggies and they

537
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,440
have all sorts of differences.

538
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:25,640
Like the Old Order Amish have to have like candles.

539
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:31,720
It all depends on the community and like I say, if you go to like Kenton, Ohio, there'll

540
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,920
be New Order and Old Order Amish mixed in with each other.

541
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:40,160
We don't know as outsiders, but they know internally who they are.

542
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,120
So I guess the Swartz and Troubers, they're so conservative that the women have to walk

543
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,080
behind the men when they go to places, when they go to church.

544
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,680
Like the woman, the wife and the man can't stand next to each other.

545
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,120
The woman has to walk behind her husband and her sons.

546
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,400
That's how conservative they are.

547
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:05,080
So let's bring it back to some of the more conservative ones don't have social security

548
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:06,080
numbers.

549
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,080
No.

550
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,000
So that's not a law of the land that you have to have a social security number?

551
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,640
No, they have a religious exemption to that.

552
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,200
Just like they have a religious exemption for schooling past the eighth grade.

553
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,640
The United States government considers religious freedom to be very important.

554
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,760
It's part of our constitution.

555
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,320
And the Amish are exempted from social security numbers because the Amish consider any social

556
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,160
sort of governmental plan like that to be worldly.

557
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,520
So they're against license plate tabs.

558
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:39,200
They're against that Swartz and Troubers will not put orange triangles on their buggies

559
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,600
because it's too worldly.

560
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,440
So they only put reflective tape on them, but they won't put the orange triangle on

561
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:45,440
it.

562
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,440
Right.

563
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,440
And they won't put lights on the back.

564
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,160
Like the old, like the real conservatives will not put lights on the back.

565
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,160
Yep.

566
00:30:52,160 --> 00:31:00,840
So for how they got these religious exemptions then, I'm assuming it was a long time ago.

567
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:06,360
Did they have to go to court and plead their case to keep these religious exemptions?

568
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:07,360
They go to court.

569
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,840
They allow themselves to be arrested.

570
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,620
They refuse to get themselves bailed out of jail and they go to court.

571
00:31:12,620 --> 00:31:15,880
And the United States government typically pays their court costs because they refuse

572
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,600
to accept the sentences basically.

573
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,320
And it's not even that long ago.

574
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:26,040
In the sixties and seventies and eighties, in the early 2000s, or the 2000s, they were

575
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:31,360
going to court over triangles, safety triangles on the back of buggies and stuff.

576
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,360
Okay.

577
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:37,800
Now that being said, like in Western Minnesota, those bishops are working with MnDOT and the

578
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,480
federal agencies to make the road approaches wider, to make their buggies safer.

579
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:43,860
And they're new order Amish.

580
00:31:43,860 --> 00:31:47,040
So they're like very aware of what's going on and they want like, they don't want the

581
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,480
people to get hit on the road.

582
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,000
So they're working with the government to make it safe for their own people.

583
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,080
I mean, I guess like liberal or conservative, that sounds like a good idea to not have your

584
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:02,440
people hit on the road, but I'm sure the conservative ones find ways to.

585
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:03,440
What's in your ordnong?

586
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,440
You know what I mean?

587
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:05,440
What's in the ordnong?

588
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,440
Like they have rules about everything.

589
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:09,440
You know what I mean?

590
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,160
Men, if you're outside, you have to have a hat on and the hat has to have this big of

591
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,520
a brim and it has to be made out of this material and you have to wear this hat with this brim

592
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,840
with this material on Sundays only.

593
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:20,840
You know what I mean?

594
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,720
And you have to have a vest with this many buttons and they're fashionistas.

595
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,080
They're like fashion police.

596
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,560
Some of them ban using armor on your buggy.

597
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:31,560
You know what I mean?

598
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,760
They determine the colors on the buggies and where the colors are.

599
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:35,760
You know what I mean?

600
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,960
The kind of bridles you have to use on your horses, everything.

601
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:45,280
I mean, I guess like some of that stuff, like where are these other families in this ordnong

602
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,200
going to get other paint colors?

603
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:49,200
You know what I mean?

604
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,480
Well, you go to the, they're going to the hardware store to buy it.

605
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,040
They're not making their own paint.

606
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,040
Okay.

607
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,040
Well, yeah.

608
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,040
But I guess like-

609
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:57,040
So they can buy whatever color paint they want, you know?

610
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,040
Yeah.

611
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,040
If they want to kiss the bishop on the lips.

612
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,040
Right.

613
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,040
If they want to be shunned.

614
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,920
We have to talk about what shunning means, of course.

615
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:05,920
Yeah.

616
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,680
I mean, so like to me, like the shunning is like whatever, but I just don't want to kiss

617
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:09,680
the bishop on the lips.

618
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:10,680
Like that's the-

619
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:11,680
Well, so shunning-

620
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,400
Let's talk about shunning.

621
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,840
Every family is different.

622
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,760
Let's say that your wife is the daughter of a bishop or a former bishop.

623
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,880
She's going to take shunning pretty seriously.

624
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,240
But if your wife is like, wife or husband is kind of a rebel, then they don't care about

625
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,240
the shunning.

626
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,920
So shunning means that no member of the church is allowed to come into physical contact with

627
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:32,920
you.

628
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,080
So let's say the man gets shunned.

629
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:40,040
The wife is not allowed to make him food at home or touch him or anything.

630
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,440
He cannot eat in the same room with the rest of his kids or his family.

631
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,440
He has to cook his own food.

632
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,640
And these Amish guys don't know how to cook.

633
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,400
They have no ability to cook because the women do all the cooking.

634
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,960
So now this guy is shunned.

635
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,240
His wife can't make him food.

636
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,240
He can't touch her.

637
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,680
He can't sleep in the same room with her.

638
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,160
So now you're sleeping in the barn and eat in the corner basically and just work.

639
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,160
And you know what I mean?

640
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,960
But who's enforcing that?

641
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,880
The people themselves enforce it.

642
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,760
You know, like the wife is the one who has to enforce it because if the wife is a believer

643
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,200
in this church, she's going to go to hell if she doesn't shun this man because the bishop

644
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:18,400
told her she had to.

645
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,400
They're part of a cult.

646
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:20,400
I mean, it is a cult.

647
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:21,400
For sure.

648
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:22,400
Yeah.

649
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,920
And now you said there's incentives to tattle on others.

650
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,060
So let's talk about that.

651
00:34:27,060 --> 00:34:30,360
There's incentives for the neighbors to tattle on their other neighbors.

652
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:35,020
So if your Amish neighbor sees you doing something you're not supposed to do, they have a social

653
00:34:35,020 --> 00:34:37,320
benefit to turn you into the bishop, right?

654
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,600
Because now they're the good person turning in the bad person.

655
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,280
So their social status goes up in the church and your social status goes down.

656
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:52,120
And they're somehow then more pious than you because, you know, or a more true believer.

657
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,360
And it's everything.

658
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,080
So you know, so and so is making too much money this year.

659
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,080
They need to make less money next year.

660
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,080
That's like the bishop can tell you to not make so much money because you're making more

661
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,560
than you earned.

662
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,800
That's what they're, you know, quote unquote, you're making more than you earned.

663
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,360
So if you're too successful at your farm, they can tell you, you have to be less successful

664
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,600
of farmer or you'll get shunt.

665
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,040
Or if you're running a mill, a wood mill, you have to be less successful at your wood

666
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,800
mill or you'll get shunt.

667
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:19,800
Okay.

668
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:20,800
Yes.

669
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:21,800
Oh yes.

670
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,400
So what are, what are, what are kind of like, what are the extremes, like the two ends of

671
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,760
shunning durations?

672
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,720
Typically it's two weeks, starts at two weeks and then it can extend.

673
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:36,960
It can be extended until you've satisfied all the men in the church.

674
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,400
Because at the end of your shunning, the bishop cannot, the bishop starts the shunning, but

675
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,320
the bishop doesn't end the shunning.

676
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:48,840
The shunning only ends when every man in the church says you've paid your price enough.

677
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,820
So if one, like if you pissed your neighbor off, your neighbor can basically say you're

678
00:35:52,820 --> 00:35:53,820
shunned forever.

679
00:35:53,820 --> 00:35:58,040
He can, he can, that guy can say every week that his shunning's not done.

680
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,040
Yeah.

681
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,040
Right.

682
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,200
So you shouldn't phrase it that you're shunned until you satisfy all the males in the, in

683
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,200
the church.

684
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,200
Sicko.

685
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,280
Maybe, maybe met the social obligations.

686
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,240
Well, I mean, like it's weird because when the shunning ends, you have to kiss the bishop

687
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:15,540
on the lips.

688
00:36:15,540 --> 00:36:19,720
So my, I'm sorry that my head is just right there.

689
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:26,040
Kissing the bishop on the lips signifies the completion of the contract, signing the contract,

690
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,040
the ordnung.

691
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:28,040
Right?

692
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,440
So I understand what it means.

693
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,000
I'm saying it's fucking weird.

694
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,440
It's, to us, it's really weird, but to them it's just normal.

695
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,440
Unless you're a woman.

696
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,760
If you're a woman, you kiss the bishop's wife on the lips.

697
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:39,760
What?

698
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,760
Yeah, yeah.

699
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:41,760
I mean, I got that part too.

700
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:48,480
And the older, the more old order they are, the more these people rely on the bishop and

701
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,800
the less they rely on English for anything.

702
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,000
So like the fire department shows up to a burning building at an Amish place and their

703
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,000
buildings burn down much more often than ours do because they use candles.

704
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,000
I wonder why.

705
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,000
Right.

706
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,000
Yeah.

707
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,000
I wonder why.

708
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,440
And the Amish will try to take the fucking firehose and stuff out of the Englishman's

709
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,680
hands, the firefighter's hands, and try to put the fire out themselves.

710
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,720
So one of these guys was talking about it and he saw an Amish guy break his nose and

711
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:20,380
partially rip his ear off because he grabbed the firehose, he wrestled the firehose away

712
00:37:20,380 --> 00:37:24,480
from the fireman, lost control of it, hit him in the face and blew his ear off.

713
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,160
Yeah, but he won't go to the hospital because then he'll be shunned.

714
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:30,800
Right, right.

715
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,200
They're allowed to go to the hospital, they just have to go by a certain methods.

716
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,200
Yeah, slowly.

717
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,760
Slowly, that's right.

718
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,280
The one guy, his dad committed suicide and that's like going to hell, right?

719
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,200
So he's buried, they didn't even want to bury him in the Amish cemetery, but they eventually

720
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,440
convinced him and then they wanted to put a fence around him.

721
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,800
But he got kicked out of the hospital because he didn't have the right clothes on because

722
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,520
he was no longer Amish.

723
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,920
So his family kicked him out of the hospital with his dying father because he didn't have

724
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:00,920
Amish clothes on.

725
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:01,920
Yeah.

726
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:08,400
I mean, I guess to be fair, a lot of religions, suicide is a one-way ticket to hell.

727
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:09,920
Yeah, it is.

728
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,200
So that's not unusual in that kind of sense, I guess.

729
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,320
No, it's not.

730
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:20,800
The reaction of the guy dying wasn't the issue, it was the son not having the proper clothes

731
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:21,800
on, right?

732
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:22,800
Yeah.

733
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,480
Because it's all about appearances because they didn't want to get turned in by their

734
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,040
neighbors saying that they allowed their son not to have his Amish clothes on because that

735
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,560
would have been trouble.

736
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:38,520
I guess my question is why would the son even have non-Amish clothes?

737
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,520
He was no longer Amish, he left the Amish.

738
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,960
I mean, you talk about leaving the Amish as well because that's a Hollywood myth that

739
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:45,960
they're allowed to leave.

740
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:46,960
They're not allowed to leave.

741
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,160
That is highly- Because I've only got about two inches and

742
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,800
I know you're probably a little behind me on this episode because you've been doing

743
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:54,800
most of the talking.

744
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:55,800
Mm-hmm.

745
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,120
But yeah, let's do the leaving the Amish and then I probably have more questions.

746
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,120
Okay.

747
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,560
Let me just talk about the abuses too at some point.

748
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:09,440
But so leaving the Amish, girls do not leave the Amish nearly as often as the boys.

749
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,000
The girls don't have communication with people outside of the Amish because they're stuck

750
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,000
in the home.

751
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,000
The boys are the ones who deal with all the English.

752
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,000
Yeah, by and large outside their family, right?

753
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,240
Yeah, by and large outside of their family, they don't talk to anybody.

754
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:23,480
So most of the girls that leave, they do it because one of their siblings is out or their

755
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:24,480
husband wants to go out.

756
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:25,480
You know what I mean?

757
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,480
Okay.

758
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,360
There's not a lot of options, but the boys, they're dealing with English people all the

759
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:30,360
time.

760
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,960
So they have friends that aren't Amish a lot of times by the time they're 18.

761
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:40,240
So they just call their friend and the old order Amish, the bishop does not want you

762
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:41,320
to leave, right?

763
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,880
Your family doesn't want you to leave.

764
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:48,220
So they basically have to most of the time sneak out either in the day or the night and

765
00:39:48,220 --> 00:39:50,280
run away from home, more or less.

766
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,760
They have to run away because they'll physically stop them.

767
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,000
If they catch you, they're going to stop you and force you back into the house and

768
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,080
kidnap you basically.

769
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,080
So you have to sneak away.

770
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,160
You can't just leave.

771
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:10,080
Is there some kind of incentive monetarily wise or something for the bishop to keep all

772
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,960
these people there?

773
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:13,720
It's religious largely.

774
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:17,920
The bishop does live off of the dues that they're paying to the church, but the bishops

775
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,000
aren't wealthy usually.

776
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,000
We can talk about-

777
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,000
Yeah.

778
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,080
So it's more like religious power.

779
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,280
It's more about religious power.

780
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:30,880
We need to talk about Sam Mullet at some point because he's a very interesting guy, a famous

781
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:31,880
Amish bishop.

782
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,840
But yeah, it's about the power and control.

783
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,600
These guys have absolute authority over a lot of the stuff that these people are allowed

784
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:44,280
to do even in their own homes because the children will turn the parents in, the wives

785
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,320
will turn the husbands in, vice versa.

786
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,600
You know what I mean?

787
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,800
So if your mother doesn't have her hair in the bun-

788
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,520
And the bishops get kissed whenever they want, it sounds like.

789
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:54,520
So not a bad gig.

790
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,520
Sounds like, yeah.

791
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,240
Or the bishop's wife, whatever they're into.

792
00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:58,240
Yeah.

793
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,240
Whoever they're pressing this week.

794
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:01,240
Right.

795
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:02,240
Right.

796
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:06,880
So yeah, even like they all own guns and they hunt, right?

797
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,960
Well, they don't wear blaze orange and they don't buy hunting licenses.

798
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,660
They don't follow the English rules.

799
00:41:11,660 --> 00:41:14,400
But they're also limited on the type of guns they can have.

800
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:15,400
And that's in the ordinance.

801
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:16,400
Yeah, I would think.

802
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,400
Oh yeah.

803
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,320
So you can't have like a 1022, let's say, because it has a removable magazine, but you're

804
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,520
allowed to have a bolt action shotgun.

805
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,880
But it can only be these calibers because if you have this other caliber, that's a worldly

806
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,520
caliber.

807
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:34,160
So like they got one guy, 30 odd sixes were banned in his ordnance because that was a

808
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,840
worldly caliber, but 30 30s were okay.

809
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,400
So how often do these ordnance rules change then?

810
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,320
Every year they vote on new rules.

811
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,320
Yeah.

812
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:46,320
Okay.

813
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,780
So one year a 30 odd six could be fine and then next year it's not fine.

814
00:41:49,780 --> 00:41:52,320
So you have to what, sell it or destroy it?

815
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:53,320
Yep.

816
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:54,320
Get rid of it.

817
00:41:54,320 --> 00:42:00,520
So this one woman was part of a fairly old order and they, one year they voted that they

818
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,520
were no longer going to allow tri blend denim.

819
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,560
You had to have 100% cotton denim.

820
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:11,160
So the women had to scramble and sew all new clothes for all the men because none of the

821
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,160
men's work clothes were allowed any longer because it was all tri blend denim.

822
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,120
Yeah, I was going to ask if they had like, these are the rules, but they don't take effect

823
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:24,120
for X amount of time to get everybody like a grace period to comply?

824
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:29,000
Well, the bishop does investigations and typically if they're not like a psycho, they'll give

825
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,960
you like, all right, you need to change your way by next Sunday.

826
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,280
You know, one of those kind of like finger wagers.

827
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,280
Yeah.

828
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,800
So if your haircut's not up to spec, be like, hey, by next Sunday you better have your haircut,

829
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:40,800
right?

830
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:47,400
Or by next Sunday you better go from that bowl cut to have hair down to your shoulders.

831
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,040
Bunch of Amish buying hair extensions.

832
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,080
That's right.

833
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,400
So, oh yeah.

834
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,760
And the parents usually get punished for the actions of the children.

835
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,960
So if your children are being naughty, the parents get punished for it, you know?

836
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:02,960
All that wonderful stuff.

837
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:03,960
Yes, indeed.

838
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:09,400
All right, do you want to do abuses or the famous bishop first?

839
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,920
We can do the abuses because that leads into it.

840
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:18,080
So kind of like the Catholic church and kind of like the Mennonites and the Jehovah's Witnesses,

841
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:24,000
these closed order religious groups cover up the crimes of members of their community.

842
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:30,120
But these crimes though, are they considered crimes in the eyes of the community or just

843
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:31,120
–

844
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:32,720
They are considered crimes in the eyes of God.

845
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:33,720
Okay.

846
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:38,480
And a lot of times, let's say there's some abuse of children going on, the bishop will

847
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:43,400
be notified, the bishop shuns the abuser, they don't kick him out of the house, they

848
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,320
don't turn him into the police, and they get shunned for two weeks as long as they're

849
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,480
being good little Amish men or women or whatever.

850
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,280
Then their shunning is over and after your shunning is over, the sin you committed is

851
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,880
no longer talked about because talking about past sins that you've already paid penance

852
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,680
for is a sin itself.

853
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:05,960
So they'll shun the abuse victim for still complaining about the abuse after the shunning

854
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:06,960
is over.

855
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:07,960
See what I'm saying?

856
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:08,960
Okay.

857
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:16,280
So as long as the abuser can stop abusing for let's say two weeks, then they're kind

858
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,280
of free to pick it right back up again after they kiss the bishop on the lips?

859
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:21,280
That's correct.

860
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,360
And the bishop will protect them and not allow other people to talk about it until they get

861
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:26,360
caught.

862
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,360
Okay.

863
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,480
So it's kind of like a perverted double jeopardy thing.

864
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,480
Mm-hmm.

865
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:32,480
Mm-hmm.

866
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:39,920
Because like, so in let's just say the English world, you can't be tried for the same crime

867
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:45,280
twice, but each new instance of a similar crime would still be, you'd still be able

868
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,280
to be tried for it.

869
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,000
So if you abuse somebody and then you were found not guilty or you did your penance for

870
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,160
that, you couldn't be tried for that same abuse.

871
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,600
But if you abuse that person again at a later date, that would start a whole new abuse trial

872
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,600
so it wouldn't fall under double jeopardy.

873
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:04,280
But it seems like the Amish version is a little bit more abuser friendly.

874
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,120
It's more abuser friendly because now you have to convince the bishop that it's still

875
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:08,120
going on.

876
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,880
And the bishop has an incentive to brush it under the rug and stop you from talking about

877
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:12,880
it.

878
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:18,280
And this is an issue mostly with the old order and the swarch intruders, not so much the

879
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,560
new order Amish, because the new order Amish are allowed to call the cops.

880
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:23,560
Yeah.

881
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:24,560
Largely.

882
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,720
You know, they're more connected to the world.

883
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:29,360
So a lot of them have telephones in their houses.

884
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:30,360
You know what I mean?

885
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,180
So they're allowed to call the cops and have that guy arrested or a woman arrested or whatever.

886
00:45:35,180 --> 00:45:38,040
And there's like brother, sister, brother, brother.

887
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:43,320
Like there's all these, you know, sexually repressed environment in which nobody's allowed

888
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,880
to talk to anybody else about what's going on.

889
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,800
This is the perfect environment for an abuser, you know, in an abuse situation.

890
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:50,800
Yeah.

891
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,440
Whether it's the grandfather or the father or brother or the mother or whatever.

892
00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:03,240
And especially since a lot of the kids don't get any information about sex ed.

893
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:04,240
Right.

894
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:11,680
So to have somebody who's completely naive and unknowing, like it's just, it's ripe for

895
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:12,680
that, it sounds like.

896
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,760
They're like the perfect victim.

897
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,080
A lot of these kids are physically punished.

898
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,160
There's not a lot of differences when, from, to the mind of a child.

899
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,160
Right?

900
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,800
So like the next door neighbors getting their ass kicked by their dad for breaking a rule.

901
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,340
That's allowed in the Amish.

902
00:46:28,340 --> 00:46:29,340
You can beat your kid.

903
00:46:29,340 --> 00:46:30,340
Yeah, of course.

904
00:46:30,340 --> 00:46:31,340
Cause it's old school.

905
00:46:31,340 --> 00:46:33,160
And you know, there's just not a lot of things.

906
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:37,080
And if it's your brother doing it or something and you sleep in the same bedroom, what are

907
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:38,080
you going to do?

908
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,360
You know, there's nobody to talk to.

909
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,360
You can't talk to your parents.

910
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,560
Cause they'll, you know, they're, they don't want to talk about that.

911
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,160
You can't talk to the Bishop.

912
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,160
Cause he doesn't want to talk to them.

913
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:48,160
Cause they're going to get punished.

914
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,040
They're going to get punished if you report it.

915
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:51,040
That's right.

916
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,040
As a kid, right?

917
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:53,040
They'll get punished.

918
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,040
The parents will get punished.

919
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,560
So, oh yeah.

920
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:58,880
And there's victim blaming, of course.

921
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,080
There's all the traditional tropes that our society has had to deal with and is still

922
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:10,240
dealing with just on a much more focused scale because of the restrictions on those people.

923
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:11,680
And it's rampant, I guess.

924
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:12,680
It's very common.

925
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:13,680
Okay.

926
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,600
Which is no surprise really, especially like the beating.

927
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:17,600
Well, yeah, that doesn't surprise me.

928
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,400
When women beating is fairly common.

929
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,480
Cause these people, they might have been attracted to each other in the beginning, but there's

930
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:25,680
no divorce.

931
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,120
There's no couples counseling.

932
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:28,560
There's no, you know what I mean?

933
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:29,840
Like they're working all the time.

934
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,320
Like people, a lot of these couples don't love each other.

935
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:33,960
It's just the way that it is.

936
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:35,720
You have to be married.

937
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:39,680
So there's all sorts of shit like that that gets covered up by the Bishops who are in

938
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,680
control of everything.

939
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,280
And they're very discouraged from going, I mean, you could get shunned for going to the

940
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,280
police.

941
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:48,280
Yeah.

942
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,080
So it's very interesting.

943
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,040
So do you have questions, Nate?

944
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,920
You know, I have a lot of questions.

945
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:05,600
I don't know so much Amish specific more so than like why, why, where, like there's, there's

946
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,540
got to be a line somewhere, right?

947
00:48:08,540 --> 00:48:15,720
So like the Catholic church and their child abuse and everything the Amish do and like

948
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:19,640
Scientologists and Mormons.

949
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:27,040
And it's kind of like, I understand religious freedom and I understand freedom of speech.

950
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:32,080
Like we're free in this country to speak our mind and you and I can have a podcast and

951
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,160
we can talk.

952
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:38,800
But if we were talking and making threats on somebody's life, that is outside of the

953
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,920
bounds of the first amendment.

954
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,440
You know, libel and slanders outside of the bounds of the first amendment.

955
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,840
You still have to prove that it's libel or slander and you know, you have to prove all

956
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:50,840
this stuff.

957
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,360
Is the threat credible and is it this and is it that?

958
00:48:53,360 --> 00:49:00,100
But at some point, aren't some of these religious exemptions too much?

959
00:49:00,100 --> 00:49:06,840
You know, and that's the whole thing the Pastafarians kind of were fighting with wearing the colanders

960
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,840
on their head for the driver's license photos, right?

961
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:16,040
Is kind of pointing out some of the ridiculousness of some of these religious exemptions.

962
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,040
I agree.

963
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:22,320
I know when I was younger, I was a lot more aggressive about that.

964
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,440
Now I kind of, I'm a lot more open to allow people to destroy themselves.

965
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:27,440
I think that's fine.

966
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:28,800
It doesn't affect me directly.

967
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,600
So there's always so much we can do.

968
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:33,600
Yeah.

969
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,360
And it's kind of like if you're an adult and you want to be Amish, like go for it.

970
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,440
That's your thing.

971
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:44,960
But when we have these religious organizations that are abusing children and abusing women

972
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:51,460
and abusing people, and I know and I understand not every Amish community does this.

973
00:49:51,460 --> 00:49:53,320
Not every Catholic church does this.

974
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:54,400
Not every, right?

975
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,080
That's not the point.

976
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:01,360
But on some hand, if we're to be, and I think you and I have talked about this, maybe not

977
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,800
even on the podcast, but we were talking about why America is pretty fucked up is because

978
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:12,760
we don't have a common social bond anymore because we're too big.

979
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,520
There's too many people, it's too big.

980
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,320
And that's, I guess, fine.

981
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:23,400
But when you have this whole group of people don't have to do social security because of

982
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:24,600
a religious exemption.

983
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:30,560
This whole swath of people don't have to report child abuse because of a religious exemption.

984
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,400
Like I mean, that's kind of, I think it's interesting.

985
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:41,440
And we've talked about my right to swing my fist ends at your face before the podcast,

986
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:42,440
I think.

987
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:50,600
So I don't want to say let's go in and bust up all the Amish ordnungs, but I think old

988
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,600
world or new world, there's got to be some things that just can't be religious exemption

989
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:55,600
away.

990
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:56,600
Right.

991
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,440
I should have mentioned it before, but the Amish are strict pacifists.

992
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:05,800
And that plays into it too, because in a world full of pacifists, the one aggressive person

993
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,080
is going to dominate.

994
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:08,080
And that's what happens.

995
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:09,080
Yeah.

996
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:13,120
You know, the vast majority of this community are good, normal people, other than the fact

997
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,200
that they're Amish being normal, not good.

998
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,800
Now they're good, but they're trained to be pacifists.

999
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,640
So they're not supposed to be aggressive.

1000
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,900
That's not supposed to be the way it is.

1001
00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:26,200
It's not like Frontier America.

1002
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:31,740
And if you read Frontier stories about some of these guys who were psychos, their neighbors

1003
00:51:31,740 --> 00:51:35,280
that come over and take care of business, you know, they take care of the problem and

1004
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:36,600
there will be no Johnny law.

1005
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,440
There'd just be a lynching and that'd be the end of it.

1006
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,120
But they don't believe in that there.

1007
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,120
The Bishop is the one that has to decide.

1008
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,840
And the Bishop has an incentive to forgive because forgiveness is big in the Amish community

1009
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,920
as well, even though they don't really forgive.

1010
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,960
They hold grudges, of course, forever and they're super judgmental, but they're supposed

1011
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:54,960
to forgive.

1012
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:55,960
Yeah.

1013
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,840
And then a lot of times when the kids say that the abuse is still going on, the Bishop

1014
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,840
says you sinned, you're not forgiving.

1015
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,840
That's, you know, that it feeds into itself.

1016
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:04,840
Yeah.

1017
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,600
And they're supposed to be passive.

1018
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:15,240
So the Bishop is never going to tell the victim of the abuse to fight back or stop it.

1019
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:16,240
Right.

1020
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:17,240
Yeah.

1021
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:18,240
That's not godly.

1022
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:19,240
Right.

1023
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:20,240
So, okay.

1024
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:27,920
So do the, would you place the Amish in, do they believe in the Bible?

1025
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,920
Do they believe in another religious book?

1026
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,040
So it's very complicated.

1027
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,240
The Amish are all trilingual.

1028
00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:43,960
So the majority of the Amish speak and read low German, which is not modern German.

1029
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,540
Modern German is quote unquote high German.

1030
00:52:46,540 --> 00:52:51,480
Low German is like a sub dialect of Germany that was popular in Switzerland when they

1031
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:52,480
moved over.

1032
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,480
Okay.

1033
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,960
They all are supposed to read high German, but the only thing that they ever read in

1034
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,640
high German is the Bible.

1035
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:04,320
They're not allowed to have Bibles in English and they all can read and write in English

1036
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,000
because that's what they're taught in school.

1037
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,080
That's the majority of their schooling is to learn how to read and write English so

1038
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,600
they can do business with out, like with English, with non Amish.

1039
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:13,600
Yeah.

1040
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:18,560
So the Amish guys are all trilingual and their religious writing is all in German and a lot

1041
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:24,060
of them can't read German at all because it's like only used for that.

1042
00:53:24,060 --> 00:53:28,760
So the bishops are the ones who have control over people's understanding of the Bible

1043
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:34,640
and them for the Amish following the ordinance, it supersedes the Bible.

1044
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,880
So they don't believe as Christ as a savior.

1045
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,840
You know, most modern Christians believe that belief in Christ is the only thing you need

1046
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:43,840
to be saved.

1047
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:44,840
They don't believe that.

1048
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:45,840
Yeah.

1049
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:50,240
And I guess like, so my question is then are they only Old Testament subscribers or do

1050
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:51,600
they also read the New Testament?

1051
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,080
They believe in Jesus.

1052
00:53:53,080 --> 00:54:00,160
It's just that because they are limited, their access to the Bible is limited, so they follow

1053
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,720
the ordinances and the bishops more than they follow the Bible.

1054
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:07,020
And a lot of these people that left, there's a couple of different groups or subgroups

1055
00:54:07,020 --> 00:54:08,640
of ex-Amish.

1056
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,080
A lot of the ex-Amish that leave are rebels and they don't want to follow the rules about

1057
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:14,840
having a half this three inches long.

1058
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:15,840
That's a group.

1059
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:20,160
And then some of them are survivors of abuse who get into contact with the English and

1060
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:21,160
they escape.

1061
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:25,280
And then some of them are actually fluent in German, high German, and they read the Bible

1062
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:32,080
and they were offended that the bishops were lying about the Bible and they left.

1063
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,080
So they're like Christians.

1064
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,200
They're actually legit, like hardcore Christians.

1065
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:43,480
So I guess there's no way then for anybody that isn't the bishop to call the bishop out

1066
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,680
if they don't read high German, right?

1067
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:46,680
Like there'd be no way.

1068
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,480
Even if you do, it's very frowned upon.

1069
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:51,480
It's tough.

1070
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:52,480
Yeah.

1071
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,360
Even if you're the preacher, it's tough.

1072
00:54:54,360 --> 00:55:01,400
As in a linguistic aside, is low German to high German similar to like old English to

1073
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:02,400
modern English?

1074
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,760
I think it would be closer to middle English to modern English.

1075
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:06,760
Okay.

1076
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:11,840
Because old English is like Shakespeare and then old English.

1077
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:12,840
Modern English.

1078
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:13,840
Yeah.

1079
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:14,840
But on the cusp.

1080
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:19,400
King James Bible is a blend of modern and middle, right?

1081
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,120
Canterbury Tales is middle English.

1082
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:27,680
And then old English is like 25% of the words we use are old English or something like that.

1083
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:28,680
There's some percentage.

1084
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:29,680
It's a big number.

1085
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:34,320
And the most common used words that we have are old English, but it'd be very difficult

1086
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,680
to understand a conversation in old English.

1087
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,040
Middle English you and I can understand because we're fluent in modern English.

1088
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:44,440
But old English, if you read it, you'd probably have a good understanding of what they were

1089
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:50,040
talking about because you could get like the base root of words and kind of put it together.

1090
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:51,040
Yeah.

1091
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:56,340
But I know that they had different letters and stuff that kind of morphed into our current

1092
00:55:56,340 --> 00:55:57,920
alphabet and stuff.

1093
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:02,320
And I know that, and this has nothing to do with the Amish, but I do know that the only

1094
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:09,680
reason we say goodbye is because somebody once abbreviated God be with ye as like God

1095
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:10,680
be ye.

1096
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,680
Portmanteaus are extremely common in English.

1097
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:13,680
Yeah.

1098
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,180
And people are so funny.

1099
00:56:15,180 --> 00:56:19,400
This is not about the Amish at all, but people get so upset about the modern portmanteaus

1100
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,080
and it's like, dude, this is kind of how English is created.

1101
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:23,080
You know what I mean?

1102
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:24,680
Like we've always been doing this.

1103
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:26,680
It's just get over it.

1104
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:27,680
Yeah.

1105
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:32,560
Well, English is kind of like, I've heard it described as kind of like a melting pot

1106
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,520
of languages because we just kind of like take what we like.

1107
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:37,520
It is.

1108
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:38,520
We have a lot of French words.

1109
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,080
Put our own pronunciations on it.

1110
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:41,080
Yep.

1111
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,520
Not even some of them, we just directly translate, especially a lot of the Spanish words.

1112
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:45,520
It's American English.

1113
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:46,520
Yeah.

1114
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:51,700
Has a lot of Spanish words used in it where like UK English doesn't necessarily have Spanish

1115
00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:52,700
words in it.

1116
00:56:52,700 --> 00:56:53,700
Yeah.

1117
00:56:53,700 --> 00:56:57,160
We don't even think about it because we just have Spanish words because there's a bunch

1118
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,960
of Spanish people that settled in the United States.

1119
00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:04,680
But yeah, you know, not that we can't speak to somebody from England, obviously, but.

1120
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:05,680
Yeah, we can.

1121
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:06,680
We just, we choose not to.

1122
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:07,680
Right.

1123
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:08,680
Yeah.

1124
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,160
Because they're gutter people.

1125
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,600
Well, I believe the word is, I believe the English phrase, not American phrases, they're

1126
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:15,600
twats.

1127
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:16,600
So.

1128
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:17,600
Oh yeah.

1129
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,600
I was going to, I thought you were going to say the C word on that one.

1130
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:21,600
No, no.

1131
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:23,600
We're talking about Scottish or Australian.

1132
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:24,600
Australians.

1133
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:25,600
Yeah.

1134
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:26,600
Yeah.

1135
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:33,760
I did hear that technically all Australian food is prison food.

1136
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,760
I know I like kangaroo leather bowling shoes.

1137
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:37,760
Yeah.

1138
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,420
So to bring us back to the Amish, my fingers are getting a little hot.

1139
00:57:42,420 --> 00:57:45,560
This is a good cigar all the way down.

1140
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,360
Did you want to talk about that famous bishop or infamous bishop?

1141
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:49,360
Yes.

1142
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:50,360
Before we wrap up.

1143
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:51,360
Yes, I do.

1144
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,960
So the most famous, the most famousest bishops is ever as Samwise Gamgee would say.

1145
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,960
Was Rudolph.

1146
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:57,960
Yeah.

1147
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:58,960
Was Rudolph.

1148
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:03,320
His name is, and he's still alive, Sam Mullet.

1149
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,960
And I have never heard of Sam Mullet two weeks ago or three weeks ago, but I listened to

1150
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:12,520
a couple of interviews by his daughter, Linda Shruck is her name.

1151
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:13,520
Okay.

1152
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:18,760
And he went to federal prison, I think he's out now, for a hate crime because they did

1153
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,500
some like Amish beard cutting.

1154
00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:25,440
So him and his cronies, or he sent his cronies out to these other Amish people that crossed

1155
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:26,440
him.

1156
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:27,520
And he's a bishop.

1157
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:32,120
And so he sent these Amish dudes, his cronies out to these other Amish people's houses,

1158
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,560
including another bishop and had them hold them down and cut their beards off, which

1159
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,600
they're not supposed to do.

1160
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:39,600
Because they're passive.

1161
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:40,600
These are pacifists.

1162
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:44,000
Well, they're pacifists and they're not supposed to cut their beards.

1163
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,040
So they sent his cronies out there.

1164
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:47,040
Yeah.

1165
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,040
Yeah.

1166
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:49,300
So it's like a double slap in the face.

1167
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:50,300
But the Sam Mullet-

1168
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:52,600
It's like toilet paper in a house, but actually a hate crime.

1169
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:53,600
Yeah.

1170
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:54,600
Yeah.

1171
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:59,440
So this Sam Mullet, he's actually excommunicated now and they consider him to be a separate

1172
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,920
cult, but he's like Amish themed.

1173
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,960
And it's called the Bergholz community.

1174
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:10,320
And there was like 30 families and now there's like 13 or something.

1175
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:15,280
Most of the people left this community when Sam Mullet started to go off the rails.

1176
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,840
But yeah, he's got a sex cult.

1177
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:21,440
He sleeps with all the women.

1178
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,760
Linda Schrock, his daughter left when not only her father, but her husband said that

1179
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,720
she needed to sleep with her father.

1180
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,720
He's sleeping with all the women.

1181
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,720
And they're all related to him.

1182
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:39,120
So that was going to be my next thing is like his little sector or cult or whatever is probably

1183
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:45,280
going to work itself out because if he's not going to allow his members to marry a less

1184
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:50,060
strict ordnong, it's just not going to happen.

1185
00:59:50,060 --> 00:59:52,560
If he's the most, if he's the strictest, right?

1186
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:53,560
He's not the strictest.

1187
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:54,920
He's like the cultiest.

1188
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:56,400
He's out of the Amish order.

1189
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:57,400
They kicked him out.

1190
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:01,160
They had like this big conference and the other bishops are like, no, this guy's a cult

1191
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,080
because he's sleeping with all the women.

1192
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:04,080
That's strictly forbidden.

1193
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:05,080
Well, yeah.

1194
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:06,760
You sleep with your husband or wife and that's it.

1195
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:10,120
And he's sleeping with the daughters and his granddaughters and his nieces and nephews

1196
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:11,120
and shit.

1197
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:16,080
Well, not nephews, but then all these women are carrying babies by him and he was in prison.

1198
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,080
And his abuses are crazy.

1199
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:24,760
He would in church, if people were confessing to sins, he'd have them cover their face with

1200
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:29,960
ketchup and let it sit there for the whole service, which would burn your skin.

1201
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:31,960
You know what I mean?

1202
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,060
It's funny, but it's going to burn your skin.

1203
01:00:35,060 --> 01:00:39,800
And as a punishment, a routine punishment, he would stuff people in chicken coops and

1204
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,800
they would have to sleep in dirty chicken coops and live in dirty chicken coops until

1205
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,200
he said they could come home.

1206
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:51,120
So don't join the chicken coop cult is my takeaway from that.

1207
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:56,280
But that's the extreme end of the abuses.

1208
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,160
How crazy can these bishops get?

1209
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:03,040
He still has a lot of people under his control and they will not leave.

1210
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,240
And he's doing crazy stuff.

1211
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,360
I would never follow a religious leader that told me to sleep in a chicken coop, let alone

1212
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:10,360
sleep with my wife.

1213
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:11,360
You know what I mean?

1214
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:12,360
That's just not happening.

1215
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:13,360
Yeah.

1216
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,600
No, that's not a normal thing.

1217
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:17,600
Or should not be.

1218
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:18,880
It should not be a normal thing.

1219
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:19,880
No, it's weird.

1220
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,560
Yeah, the beard cutting incident, which is what he went to prison for, to me was the

1221
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,400
least offensive thing that he did.

1222
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:27,400
You know what I mean?

1223
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:31,480
That gets weird and wrong, but it's not as weird and wrong as sleeping with your daughter.

1224
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,480
You know what I mean?

1225
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:35,480
Yeah.

1226
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:36,480
Yeah.

1227
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:42,000
But I guess like the, and unfortunately, I'm sure the sentence for doing a hate crime versus

1228
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:46,400
sexual abuse, the hate crime is probably a heftier sentence.

1229
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,160
He was 16 years in prison.

1230
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:49,160
Yeah.

1231
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,160
He was in prison for 16 years.

1232
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:52,280
His daughter went to prison too.

1233
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:53,800
And when she got out, she left.

1234
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:54,800
Okay.

1235
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:55,800
Yep.

1236
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:56,800
What did she go to prison for?

1237
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:57,800
The beard cutting thing?

1238
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:02,800
She was aware of the beard cutting thing and they put 16 members of that community in prison

1239
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,440
and she was one of them.

1240
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:05,440
Okay.

1241
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:06,440
Yep.

1242
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:11,480
She got two years for just being aware of what was going on and not calling the police

1243
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:12,960
is what they put her in jail for.

1244
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:17,680
Because her husband is like the right hand man of her father.

1245
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:18,680
Okay.

1246
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:21,680
Super interesting, like I say.

1247
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,640
And they're on the appearance from the outside.

1248
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:28,480
You and I would not know they're not Amish because they still look Amish, but this guy

1249
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,960
says he's Jesus and you know, it's the typical cult.

1250
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:34,960
Like he says he's the second coming.

1251
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:36,440
So very interesting.

1252
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:37,440
Yeah.

1253
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,960
Well, and it's interesting too, because I think by and large, outside of what you, I

1254
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:46,240
mean, mostly outside of what you see in movies and I know they have the, what is it?

1255
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:50,400
Like the Breaking Amish or the thing where like the Amish mafia like reality show.

1256
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:51,400
Yeah.

1257
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:52,400
And all that's just Hollywood fluff.

1258
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:53,400
That's super fake.

1259
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:54,400
Yeah, it's all fake.

1260
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:55,400
Yep.

1261
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:56,400
And all that's super fake.

1262
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:58,080
So like outside of all of that stuff, like if you just see Amish people, you're like,

1263
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:03,120
oh, those people are really docile and must have really like not complicated lives.

1264
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,720
But I guess the takeaway is humans who make anything complicated.

1265
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:07,720
Oh, absolutely.

1266
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:12,560
Like I think that at least the Amish that we see, there are some Swartz and Trubers

1267
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,120
around here in Minnesota.

1268
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:15,880
I mean, not around me.

1269
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:17,920
I don't live by the Amish at all.

1270
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,240
They're South and West.

1271
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:21,240
And they're, they're so-

1272
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:25,160
Or they might be North and East because nobody knows where Mike lives.

1273
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:26,160
So-

1274
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:31,760
I live in North, Northern Minnesota and there's like a band of Amish that goes from Wisconsin

1275
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:38,120
to a metro area up to like Fargo and then there's Amish down in the South, Southwest

1276
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:39,120
as well.

1277
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,360
And they're all South and West of me.

1278
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:43,360
So-

1279
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:44,360
Okay.

1280
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:45,360
But I try to ask sometimes.

1281
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:46,360
Yeah.

1282
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:50,560
And so I put my cigar down because I was burning my fingers, but it was worth the smoke all

1283
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:52,160
the way to the very end in my mind.

1284
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:54,360
And I still have an inch and a half left.

1285
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:55,360
Yeah.

1286
01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:00,860
Because you've been, you've been, you've been flapping your gums and not smoking.

1287
01:04:00,860 --> 01:04:06,120
So I guess kind of my last question then before we kind of wrap up for this episode then is,

1288
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,800
are Amish unique to the United States?

1289
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:10,800
Yes.

1290
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:15,520
Not, not, there's Amish in Canada and there's some Amish in Central and South America, but

1291
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:20,200
their origins are out of the United States and they have direct ties to us.

1292
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:21,200
Okay.

1293
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:22,200
Yes.

1294
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:23,200
Yes, yes.

1295
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:26,760
So there's in the seventies, in the eighties and nineties, there's some of the Amish moved

1296
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,120
down to like South America and Central America.

1297
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,320
And they're all newer Amish that moved there.

1298
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,840
And then there's some in Ontario and some in Manitoba, I think.

1299
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:35,840
Okay.

1300
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:36,840
Yeah.

1301
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,680
So there are some in Canada and some in South and Central America, but they are new world

1302
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:41,680
origin.

1303
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,160
Like all of the Amish as we think of them are in this hemisphere.

1304
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:46,160
Okay.

1305
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,800
And then the Mennonites kind of probably spread out most other places.

1306
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:54,400
There's Mennonites all over the continent and there's Mennonites in Europe as well.

1307
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:55,400
Okay.

1308
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:56,400
Yeah.

1309
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,320
And I think not the Mennonites and not the Amish, the other one.

1310
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,080
I can't remember what the heck they're called.

1311
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:05,840
There's a third one that's similar to the Mennonites and the Amish, but they're not

1312
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:06,840
exactly the same.

1313
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,800
They're all off the same grouping of religious Anabaptist types.

1314
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:10,800
Okay.

1315
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,800
They had a television show about those people, not the Mennonites, the other ones.

1316
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,040
But anyway, it doesn't really matter.

1317
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:18,440
We were talking about the Amish.

1318
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:20,280
That is correct.

1319
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:25,760
And it was a very interesting topic and thanks for listening to Mike Knows and Nate is going

1320
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,280
to learn him some stuff.

1321
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:29,280
Be safe.

1322
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:30,280
Have fun.

1323
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:56,720
Click.