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Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Nate.

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And I'm Mike.

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What are we smoking Mike?

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It looks like Rocky Balboa's fighting shorts.

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It does.

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We are smoking a CAO America.

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And now I know we typically wait to do this, but I had to slide the wrapper off at the

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end because it was over the cap with that triangle piece up.

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Yeah, my wrapper is really loose.

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It's not coming off.

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It also had a tip wrapper.

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Yeah, yeah, I took that off right away.

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I couldn't burn that one because that looks more American flaggy than the rest of it.

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Right.

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And this one's pretty sexy.

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It's got like a little Connecticut stripe.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like the, we'll call it the what, the founding father flair or something.

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Yeah.

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I've never seen this in a cigar shop.

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I've seen some of the other country series.

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Okay.

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But this one's easily the most attractive.

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Yeah, when I, well, it's America.

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Right, right.

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When I went to wet this one, I don't know if this is true or not, but like, I don't

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know if it was plum or there was some different like flavor.

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It's a little bit of a spicy wrapper, but there is some kind of, I think almost fruity,

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fruity taste to this wrapper as well, but I might be wrong.

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Yeah, I had some tang.

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I had a flavor in there.

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Not sure what it was.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I wasn't sure either.

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I don't know why my brain thought plum, but that's what my brain thought.

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I'm also not good at tasting things as we've mentioned before on the podcast.

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So I'm going to light up and then Mike has a Mike knows and Nate doesn't know topic.

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So you, the listener, will be just as surprised as I am.

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And now this is the start of another series, isn't it Mike?

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This is a whole line of CAO countries.

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So we're doing America and my first few puffs taste like British tears.

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So that's good.

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Yes.

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Mine tastes like tea spilt in the Atlantic is exactly what it's like.

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Yes.

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And I think the British one, the CAO British, I think that one just tastes like beans and

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plain toast, right?

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That's what I've heard.

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Failure and disappointment.

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Well, there's that too.

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Masturbation tears and a cuck tent.

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Yes.

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Royal family incest and.

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Yeah, and Jeffrey Epstein's connection to the royal family.

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Yes.

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I don't think they have a British one.

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So we're just making fun, right?

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They don't have a British.

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I don't think so.

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No, I have.

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I know of three off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's more.

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We'll have to find them.

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Yes.

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Mine.

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Mine seems to be fairly tightly packed.

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It's a it's firm.

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Personally, I have a firm one, but it is very attractive.

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I like that.

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You're talking about the cigar still or?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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I like that.

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I like that straight.

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Man, that looks really good.

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The nice firm one.

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Yeah.

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The stripe is interesting.

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I don't know.

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I don't think it's quite enough Connecticut to be able to discern a flavor from it.

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Just given like the surface ratio of that, but.

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No, probably not.

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But it does look very, very neat.

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They took took a while to to roll.

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I don't know.

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I don't know how they do that.

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What reminds me of the not Olivia.

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Maybe it is the Olivia Spanish series.

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OK, there's another couple of cigars that I've seen that have that stripe and they're

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pretty nice.

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This is a shelf appeal.

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They look really good.

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Yes.

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So this one so far is is decent.

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I mean, the first couple of puffs does it.

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It's fairly robust, I think.

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It's robust.

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It's not that like not alcohol, but like that acidic cigar flavor.

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You know what I mean?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Not super crazy.

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What are you pairing it with tonight?

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I am pairing it with a surly furious, which is an IPA from a local brewery here.

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I know they distribute outside of here, but I guess I don't know how far they distribute

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here statewide, I'm guessing.

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OK.

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So I've had this this 12th pack has had kind of some quality control issues because every

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single one I've opened has a foamed out the top.

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So and I've kind of cooled on surly just because they did some union busting kind of tactics

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a year or two ago.

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I remember that.

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Yeah.

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I hate unions, but I hate people who hate.

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I hate companies who hate unions because usually if your workers want to unionize, you're doing

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something not right.

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So right.

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Yeah.

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Typically there's something going on.

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I have a whiskey sour and then a kicker of Johnny Walker Black.

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So nice.

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Yep.

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Good enough for Saddam Hussein.

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Good enough for me.

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Yes, indeed.

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And Mike's broadcasting live from his cave.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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I put up some pegboard today above the old workbench here in the garage and cleaned off

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a vast amount of surface space here, which I'm very thrilled about.

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Nice.

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Not that anyone cares or needs to know, but are you going to put hooks in your pegboard

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and hang some stuff?

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Oh yeah, I did.

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I put a whole bunch of hooks in there and I'm looking at all these hanging tools now.

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I could build something right now.

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I shit you not, but I won't because we're podcasting.

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So are you hanging power tools or are you hanging like hand tools?

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These are hand tools or toe tools if you've got dexterous feet.

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You know, hammers, wrenches, clamps, saws, screwdrivers, box cutter, rivet gun, which

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I haven't used.

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I just took it out of the package.

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And then I've got what looks like a 1952 staple gun.

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Oh.

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Well, it's orange, but you know, it's seen better days.

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I think it came from my grandfather.

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Might have to inspect it further to see if there's actually like any manufacturing stuff

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on it or not.

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Right.

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It's probably an arrow.

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Could be.

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Could be.

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Now you're going to make me look.

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Oh no.

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Is that a Proto Stanley?

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It is a Swingline number 181 Tacker.

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Oh.

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Very old school.

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Yes.

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And it's got, it looks like it's got like a safety kind of latch on it and everything.

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So that's a not when Nate is drinking.

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It's just one of the squeeze staple guns, you know.

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If it's, it's all metal, so it's probably fairly badass.

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I have a couple of the hand staplers.

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The best staple I've ever seen.

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My dad has a roof stapler.

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Okay.

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From like 1972.

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And I don't know the brand, but that fucking thing is made out of pure steel and all the

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pins broke and every pin is a 16 penny nail bent over top of it.

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So if you have to change anything out of it, you have to unband a 16 penny nail.

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Okay.

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But it comes from the days when my dad worked for Bechtel International.

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So that's.

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There you go.

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Yep.

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A call back to our episode.

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Oh, what the hell was that called?

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Internet or economic hitman?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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So I was working for Bechtel International back in his day as a master carpenter.

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I'm waiting for his tell all book to come out.

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Right.

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Your dad's studies.

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He could.

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He could.

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He worked with the military for a long time.

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He might as well.

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In his own right.

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I'd read it.

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He was just a cog in the machine.

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He wasn't important enough to know any secrets.

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His cog made money for his family, but I don't think he knows anything nefarious.

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Well, maybe not.

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Maybe not.

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So the good news to everybody listening, well, to me is that it is snowing out.

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And so if I had not built my garage studio when it was warm out, we wouldn't be able

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to podcast today because it's snowing.

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It is not snowing here.

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So hopefully it stays down by.

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We were supposed to get up to three inches.

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Yeah.

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We were supposed to get six.

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Last time we were supposed to get 24 and we only got 12.

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So yeah, we'll find out.

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We've gotten a lot of snow this year.

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So everybody's south of Minnesota.

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Watch out.

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Yeah.

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Well, at least along Mississippi, right?

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I don't think this is going to be a record year.

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I think last year there was a record year for one of the communities in northern Minnesota.

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And I don't think it's going to be a record year.

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But there is a lot of snow.

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I mean, I can see the clothesline, but there's a lot of snow.

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All right.

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Well we've done enough foreplay.

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What is this topic I know nothing about?

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The Manson family.

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Like Marilyn Manson?

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No, yes, like Marilyn Manson.

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No, not Marilyn Manson, which all of his accusers have now recanted.

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For those of you who wanted to bash Marilyn Manson for being a groomer, all those girls

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have now recanted their stories, whether that's legit or not, who knows.

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Tough to say.

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00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,560
Charles Manson and his family.

226
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Yes.

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What is this?

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00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:09,040
The Sharon Tate and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?

229
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The Sharon Tate and the L'Oblianca murderers.

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But we'll find out if there's more.

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00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,440
So what do you know about Charles Manson?

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00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:27,280
Well, and I'm going to try very, very hard to separate this from Quentin Tarantino's

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Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which is kind of like a Glorious Basterds, a fictional retelling

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of Hollywood in that era.

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A very fictional retelling that does not include Manson.

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It's very interesting.

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I like that movie.

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I like that movie too.

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I still think In Glorious Basterds is better, but Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is very,

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very enjoyable.

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I didn't like In Glorious Basterds, funnily enough.

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I should watch it again.

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00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,000
You should watch it again.

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It was kind of tough because that was his very first fictionalized history account.

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And so the first time watching it, I'm like, well, how can they be emptying clips into

246
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Hitler when that very clearly didn't happen in real life?

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But I think knowing what to expect kind of going into it, that it's a fictionalized

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account and much better done than Blonde, which was a fictionalized account, but it

249
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:22,200
was completely fictional about all of Marilyn Monroe's life.

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Now we've got Manson on the brain.

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I don't know.

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Anyway, so I'm trying to separate the movie.

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They had a cult and they murdered Sharon Tate, who was an actress and maybe some other people.

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And they're not the Jim, was it the Jim Jones who did the Kool-Aid?

255
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:40,840
No, Jim Jones is totally separate.

256
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,840
We can talk about him in a different episode.

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Okay.

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I'm not as into, so a lot of people are into these serial killers and mass murderers and

259
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,120
like tortured souls and I struggled to keep them all straight.

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So this is a perfect example of Mike knows and Nate does not.

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00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,000
Perfect.

262
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:04,560
My first introduction to Charles Manson was in college and I dated this fine young lady

263
00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:10,480
from South Dakota and she was really into serial killers.

264
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:16,600
So she was really big in Jim Jones and she was really big into Charles Manson and she

265
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:24,960
had back in the early 2000s, she had downloaded Charles Manson's albums.

266
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,800
Oh yeah.

267
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:27,800
We listen to him.

268
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,160
I remember hearing about those.

269
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,160
Yeah.

270
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:36,520
I've listened to Charles Manson's music and it's kind of like dark hippie music that's

271
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:37,860
very folksy.

272
00:12:37,860 --> 00:12:40,960
It's kind of like Mississippi Delta blues.

273
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:41,960
It's good.

274
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:42,960
Okay.

275
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,160
It's very dark and strummy and bluesy.

276
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,000
You know what I mean?

277
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:54,660
It's kind of like listening to Lead Belly but not, Lead Belly's a master and obviously

278
00:12:54,660 --> 00:12:57,900
Charles Manson wasn't that good, but he was pretty good.

279
00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:02,720
He could have passed as a musical act in the 60s for sure.

280
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:03,720
Okay.

281
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:04,980
It's decent.

282
00:13:04,980 --> 00:13:06,440
It's fine.

283
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:11,320
For those who haven't listened to it, try to find it and listen to it because it's all

284
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,240
right and that plays a huge role in the story.

285
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:22,520
Charles Manson was trying to create an album with Terry Melcher who was the son of Doris

286
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,280
Day who was a huge record executive at the time.

287
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:36,720
He had a bunch of successful LPs and Manson was tied in with Melcher pretty tight.

288
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,320
Him and Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys fame.

289
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,200
I think they were producing a lot of albums at the time.

290
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:45,840
There was kind of, wasn't there?

291
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:46,840
And I might be jumping ahead.

292
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:55,800
I don't mean to do so, but I know we've, my Sarah and I, we've watched that one Beach

293
00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:01,800
Boys movie that came out a couple of years ago with, well, it doesn't matter, but they

294
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,960
had like two different people.

295
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,240
I can't remember the name of it.

296
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:11,760
Something Summer Beachy, whatever the fuck, but they had two different people play Brian

297
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,440
Wilson, you know, one for younger and one for older.

298
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,200
And I felt like there was some kind of like Manson thing in there.

299
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,240
So some kind of Manson connection, but I couldn't remember exactly what it was.

300
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,600
He was intricately tied with Manson.

301
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:24,600
Okay.

302
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:25,920
I'm more into that.

303
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,160
So, it's one of those topics where it's like, I vaguely know about it.

304
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,760
And so when you say things, I'm like, oh yeah, maybe I did hear about that.

305
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,680
But he knows about Charles Manson.

306
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,360
That's the beautiful part of it.

307
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,740
Everybody has a background.

308
00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:52,440
So the official case was put together by Booghly O.C. who was a prosecutor for LA County or

309
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,920
City of Los Angeles, I'm sorry.

310
00:14:54,920 --> 00:15:01,720
And it was the helter skelter argument where Charles Manson was trying to start a race

311
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,720
war.

312
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:08,520
And so he murdered some white people and put some black propaganda out.

313
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,240
He wanted to start a race war between whites and blacks.

314
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:17,600
You have to remember this is late 60s and the Black Panthers are popular.

315
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:23,360
And the theory was that he was trying to start a race war between whites and blacks.

316
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,120
So he had his family members murder people.

317
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:28,120
Okay.

318
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:35,640
Real as a quick aside, did you see that there are two Native Hawaiian people that were charged

319
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,400
in the murder of a white person as a hate crime?

320
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:39,400
No.

321
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:40,400
Okay.

322
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,600
It's not relevant to the story other than you mentioned race war.

323
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,640
But well, how the right.

324
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,800
I mean, how is this a term?

325
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,480
Yeah, that's a look it up.

326
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:58,880
So anyway, the official story is that Charles Manson brainwashed these vulnerable adults

327
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,920
and trained them to kill and blah, blah, blah.

328
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,520
Then magically they were also held responsible for the murders.

329
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,480
And he had a whole bunch of people, like 30, 40 people.

330
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,840
Okay.

331
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,200
And he had a compound too, didn't he?

332
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,720
He had a compound and it was a cult following.

333
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,680
And these people went in front of the courthouse and like did sit ins and shaved their heads.

334
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,640
And it was a whole big hula.

335
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,060
And it was very anti hippie in the news.

336
00:16:31,060 --> 00:16:38,240
And it worked well for the federal government to crack down on LSD and on the hippies in

337
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:39,240
general.

338
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:44,720
It really worked well into their plan, quote unquote, during the Nixon administration has

339
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,040
when they prosecuted these people.

340
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,520
Everybody knows.

341
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:50,520
Everybody knows.

342
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,640
But that's the common story.

343
00:16:52,640 --> 00:17:00,360
I read a book that questions this and this gentleman, it was called chaos.

344
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,600
Let's see who it's by.

345
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,440
Chaos by Tom O'Neill.

346
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:14,680
And he did a 20 year long study and he interviewed a lot of people and he chased down a lot of

347
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,240
doc.

348
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,080
And he calls into question the narrative.

349
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,260
And one thing is certain.

350
00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:27,680
That story is a lie.

351
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,200
We don't know what the real story is.

352
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,480
Like many things in this world, we don't know what the story is.

353
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:38,520
But we know that that is a fucking lie.

354
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:39,520
Which part?

355
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:40,520
That he brainwashed these people?

356
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:47,200
Or that he was trying to start a race war?

357
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,640
He definitely brainwashed these people.

358
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,400
Did he want to start a race war?

359
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,480
Probably not.

360
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,400
There's layers involved.

361
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,400
So I don't know the best way to start it.

362
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:12,840
But in the trial, they started with Charles Manson in Los Angeles and they discounted

363
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,720
his entire life before his time there.

364
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:25,360
But Charles Manson was a lifelong criminal and he was already in his mid 30s by the time

365
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:29,200
he got to Los Angeles.

366
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:35,960
So he spent the majority of his life in federal prison.

367
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,760
He was a federal prison parolee.

368
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:49,200
He the two previous years before living in Los Angeles lived in San Francisco and he

369
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,120
spent a long time at the Haight-Ashbury Clinic.

370
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,840
Do you know about the Haight-Ashbury Clinic?

371
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,000
I do not.

372
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,760
So the Haight-Ashbury Clinic was a free medical clinic in the Haight-Ashbury District of San

373
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:11,080
Francisco and it was a hippie central spot.

374
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,440
Next door were the diggers and then they had the Haight-Ashbury.

375
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,760
The Haight-Ashbury Clinic would do free healthcare and the diggers would get free food.

376
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,080
They had this whole hippie community in Haight-Ashbury and that's where a lot of this hippie-dippie

377
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,760
shit that we know now came out of.

378
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,760
Okay.

379
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,080
And Charles Manson had an apartment two blocks from the Haight-Ashbury Clinic.

380
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,160
Okay.

381
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,640
What wasn't covered, go ahead.

382
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,200
Oh no.

383
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:44,480
Was he a patient at the clinic or did he help out there a lot or are you getting to that?

384
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,480
Listen.

385
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:46,480
Okay.

386
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:47,480
Listen.

387
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:48,480
This is the kicker.

388
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:49,480
All right.

389
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,480
Here we go.

390
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:59,920
The guy who ran the Haight-Ashbury Clinic was a CIA operative who did research on mice

391
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:04,480
chemically inducing them to violence with LSD and amphetamines.

392
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:05,480
No.

393
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:06,480
Yes.

394
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,520
The CIA would never do that to anybody.

395
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:10,640
Yes.

396
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:17,120
There was a second person there who was not officially a part of the Haight-Ashbury Clinic,

397
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:20,320
but he had a office there.

398
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,400
He was the head of the MKUltra program for the CIA.

399
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:30,400
MKUltra program, for those who don't know, was in charge of the CIA's attempt to mind

400
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,280
control people.

401
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,280
And apparently he was quite successful.

402
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:36,280
Third fact.

403
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:37,280
Right?

404
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,800
So Charles Manson hung out at this clinic.

405
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,200
The guy who headed it was CIA.

406
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,360
The assistant was CIA.

407
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:46,520
He was best buddies with these guys.

408
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:53,700
His parole officer had one client, Charles Manson, and he was CIA.

409
00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:58,540
So nobody's saying that Charles Manson is a part of the CIA.

410
00:20:58,540 --> 00:20:59,540
He's a lifetime criminal.

411
00:20:59,540 --> 00:21:02,200
No doubt about it.

412
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:03,200
Lifetime criminal.

413
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,200
Yeah.

414
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,940
This is for somebody who's not as familiar with this story as Mike is.

415
00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:12,480
My opinion on this, well, let's just say it is twofold.

416
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:20,740
I'm going to say this just to level set us a bit and to give my initial thoughts.

417
00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:25,840
My first thought is, okay, mind control and LSD and violence and stuff.

418
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:26,840
And amphetamines.

419
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:27,840
Don't forget the amphetamines.

420
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:28,840
And amphetamines.

421
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:29,840
This comes in later.

422
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:30,840
Yes.

423
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,200
It sounds far out.

424
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:38,580
However, there have been other proven cases of the CIA and other government bodies doing

425
00:21:38,580 --> 00:21:46,200
this type of research on people and I think they just released, and I don't know, I don't

426
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:52,320
remember the name of it, but were they giving aids to a whole bunch of poor black people

427
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,440
to see what the effects of it was?

428
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,320
Tuskegee was an aids.

429
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,320
Oh yeah.

430
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,320
Okay.

431
00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,320
Was it syphilis?

432
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,320
Syphilis.

433
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:01,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

434
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:02,320
Okay.

435
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,840
And so they've recently, that's come out in the news again lately.

436
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,140
So initially I was like, well, okay, all this other stuff and like, but I know that they've

437
00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:13,880
done it and there's proof that they've done these tests on people.

438
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,680
Oh, MKUltra is a fact.

439
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,400
Came out in a commission in the seventies.

440
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,600
We know there were docent people with LSD.

441
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:33,320
My other thought is somebody like Charles Manson is a prime suspect to become a test

442
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,960
subject for these groups.

443
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,080
He already had psychosis for sure.

444
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:39,080
Yeah.

445
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,080
He was already messed up.

446
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,080
He was already a criminal.

447
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,640
Basically had already forfeit most of his rights as a citizen through his crimes.

448
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,440
He was at the mercy of the government because he was a federal parolee.

449
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:54,800
So they could, he's easily manipulated.

450
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,800
Just put it that way.

451
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:57,800
Yes.

452
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:58,800
Yes.

453
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:05,080
So let's continue, he was a major fixture at the Haight Ashbury Clinic, which was covered

454
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:12,360
up at the trial, but the head of the clinic was CIA who did research on mice with acid

455
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,360
and amphetamines.

456
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:20,640
The second guy at the clinic was the head of the MKUltra program who was in charge of

457
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,820
mind control using LSD and other drugs.

458
00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:27,720
His parole officer was CIA.

459
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:28,720
Okay.

460
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:29,720
Yeah.

461
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:38,880
And he lived in this world where he'd go to the clinic, hang out, did whatever, nobody

462
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,200
knows and he'd collect these followers.

463
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,640
Him and his followers would go around and do what they were doing.

464
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,000
They were arrested on multiple occasions.

465
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,000
All right.

466
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:57,120
Charles Manson shot somebody and was named by the person he shot by name.

467
00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:58,800
Yep.

468
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,160
His followers were arrested multiple times.

469
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:10,240
One time, four of them were arrested for seducing a sheriff deputy's son at a party giving him

470
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,040
drugs and they proved that he had drugs in his system.

471
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,440
And one of those girls had a federal warrant.

472
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:18,440
Several times.

473
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,680
These are just two occasions that I can take off the top of my head.

474
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,040
These people were arrested, brought to jail.

475
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,520
They had federal warrants and the police let them go.

476
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:37,720
And each time, these two times, but other times, there's a third character that these

477
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,160
people said came and visited them.

478
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,160
Okay.

479
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,040
And what the hell is his name?

480
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,240
I'm trying to get...

481
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:57,640
This guy, this third character started a crash pad in the Haight-Ashbury and he was CIA,

482
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,240
lifetime CIA.

483
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,480
But he started a hippie crash pad, man.

484
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,440
Cool dude, guy.

485
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,840
Complete with lava lamps and shade carpet and all the LSD and amphetamines he could

486
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:11,840
take.

487
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:12,840
Right.

488
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,280
And he was somewhere else and then he...

489
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,120
I've seen pictures of this character.

490
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:25,160
He was straight up military from the 1940s, but he had long hair and he started himself

491
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,360
like a little crash pad for these hippies.

492
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:33,880
He was kind of like a control guy because multiple officers said that this guy came

493
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:39,040
and talked to them and then they released Charles Manson or his family or whatever.

494
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,040
Yeah.

495
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:47,120
And he even claimed to have done it later in life when he was on his death store, you

496
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,120
know what I mean?

497
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:50,120
Yeah.

498
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:51,120
So we're not...

499
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:58,280
And I think just to be clear, and so we don't get visited maybe by people, is we're not

500
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,280
saying Charles Manson is innocent.

501
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,480
We're just saying that he might have been provoked as part of a CIA...

502
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,240
Oh, Charles Manson is not innocent.

503
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,240
Yeah.

504
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,240
That's not the issue.

505
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,240
No.

506
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:20,920
The issue is, was Charles Manson a product of a CIA program to try to make a Charles

507
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:21,920
Manson?

508
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:22,920
Right.

509
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:31,480
Was Charles Manson generated by the government on purpose to prove that they could do manipulation

510
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,520
of weak, quote unquote, weak individuals?

511
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,480
He was already borderline psychotic.

512
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,840
He was already borderline psychotic.

513
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,000
But was Charles Manson a product of the government?

514
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,000
Right?

515
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,000
Yep.

516
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,840
And the government's very angry about people saying that, especially the people directly

517
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:50,840
involved.

518
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:51,840
Yes.

519
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:58,480
So all these connections that Charles Manson had were never brought up in his trial.

520
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,080
Not once was it brought up in his trial.

521
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,600
This is all covered up.

522
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,440
His time there spent with these CIA people not...

523
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,920
Next fact.

524
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,440
This is a fucking fact.

525
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:20,720
Charles Manson's ranch was subject to the largest Los Angeles County raid they had ever

526
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,680
done up to 1970.

527
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,760
They found illegal weapons.

528
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,240
They found stolen car parts.

529
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,780
They found underage girls that were runaways.

530
00:27:32,780 --> 00:27:35,680
They found illegal drugs.

531
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,900
Every member of the Manson family was arrested and every one of them was released from jail

532
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:42,880
and none of them were charged.

533
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:43,880
That makes sense.

534
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,880
Totally.

535
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:45,880
And by that I mean it doesn't.

536
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:51,080
Especially when at least three of them had federal charges and they were on parole.

537
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,160
Well, it makes sense if it's part of a CIA plot, you know what I mean?

538
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,480
Or a CIA test.

539
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:04,280
It makes sense if you actually want justice or anything like that, but otherwise, yes,

540
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:05,600
it makes sense.

541
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:06,600
Right.

542
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,240
That totally makes sense.

543
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,960
The largest raid that fucking Los Angeles County has ever done and they find a bunch

544
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,880
of illegal stuff and every person gets to go.

545
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,940
Insane.

546
00:28:19,940 --> 00:28:23,200
That's a fact that nobody disputes.

547
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,840
Why would they do that, Nate?

548
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,120
Only one reason I can think of.

549
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:33,600
And it has nothing to do with Charles Manson being charismatic.

550
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:34,600
I'll tell you that.

551
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:35,600
Right.

552
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,880
Oh, he was definitely charismatic and he definitely had this psychotic control grip.

553
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,000
We're going to get back to that.

554
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,280
Over his followers, but not over the sheriff's department.

555
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,320
Definitely not over the deputy sheriff.

556
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:55,920
You can be charismatic, but you're not charismatic enough to explain away underage girls, drugs,

557
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,200
weapons, stolen car parts.

558
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,200
Runaways.

559
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,200
Yeah.

560
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,680
I mean, that's a little too much.

561
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:08,280
You're not going to explain away the fact that a sheriff deputy's underage son was molested

562
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,960
by the girls at your ranch who had federal warrants who magically got them dropped.

563
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:13,960
Yeah.

564
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,760
The only people that are charismatic enough to make that kind of stuff go away, like visiting

565
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:23,200
Epstein Island or whatever, would be like Elon Musk or politicians or royal family members,

566
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,960
that sort of thing, but not some dude.

567
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,440
Or people that have connections.

568
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:27,440
Right.

569
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,440
Yeah.

570
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:29,440
Yeah.

571
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,440
Or money.

572
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,040
And nobody's arguing that Charles Manson was even necessarily conscientiously aware of these

573
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,040
connections.

574
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,040
No.

575
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,040
Yeah.

576
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:42,520
But we'll get into why it's reasonable to think that he was a product later.

577
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:49,960
When he was arrested and they brought everybody to trial, Atkins had a lawyer and she turned

578
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,880
against the Charles Manson.

579
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:53,880
Okay.

580
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,320
She spilled the beans.

581
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,920
She blabbed her mouth.

582
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:07,680
Magically, against her will and to her official protest, they changed her lawyer and she changed

583
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,920
her case and she changed what she said about Charles Manson.

584
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,340
Okay.

585
00:30:13,340 --> 00:30:14,340
Did you know that?

586
00:30:14,340 --> 00:30:15,340
I didn't.

587
00:30:15,340 --> 00:30:17,540
She agreed to a lawyer change?

588
00:30:17,540 --> 00:30:19,160
She did not agree.

589
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,080
She protested the lawyer change.

590
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,160
They forced a lawyer change on her because she was not mentally equipped to make the

591
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,800
decision legally.

592
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,640
Oh, okay.

593
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:35,920
She was still found guilty of a crime, but she was not deemed competent to choose her

594
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:36,920
own lawyer.

595
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:37,920
Okay.

596
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,560
I mean, that seems totally legit.

597
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:42,560
Right.

598
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,520
It's totally legit, right?

599
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:52,760
Hicks Watkins, who was the main man, the man that was involved with the actual killings,

600
00:30:52,760 --> 00:31:02,000
told law enforcement that they made a graveyard at the compound and they never dug up a single

601
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,000
body.

602
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,920
They never looked for a body.

603
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,600
They never went out there and dug anything.

604
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:08,600
Okay.

605
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:15,560
So, the guy they put in jail for killing these people said, there's 20 people out there,

606
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,240
whatever number, he didn't have a number.

607
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,120
He said, there's a graveyard out there.

608
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,160
There's tons of bodies out there.

609
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,560
They never looked for a single fucking body.

610
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,280
Well, why is that?

611
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,600
Weird.

612
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,960
There's multiple cases of suicides going on in the vicinity of the ranch.

613
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,960
Okay.

614
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:40,640
All of which are suspect, some of which in the book were gone through, but a lot of quote

615
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,640
unquote suicides happened.

616
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,640
A lot of them were investigated.

617
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:53,520
There's layers and layers of evidence showing that Charles Manson was under government protection

618
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,280
because why?

619
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:56,960
Who knows why?

620
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,800
Why would a drug dealer say Charles Manson shot me in the chest?

621
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,720
He's arrested and then he's let go.

622
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,400
I mean, he's keeping the riff-raff off the street, drug dealer.

623
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,400
Right.

624
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:15,600
So in 1968, Charles Manson's on federal parole.

625
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,760
And I'm throwing these facts out.

626
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:19,760
Yes.

627
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,760
I did not make a list of facts, but I'm throwing facts out.

628
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:29,400
1968, Charles Manson got approval to go to Mexico with two of his girls when he's on

629
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,400
federal parole.

630
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:38,200
The CIA at the time happened to be running drugs through Mexico at the time in the same

631
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:43,880
area that Charles Manson told his parole officer who worked for the CIA that he was going to

632
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:44,880
go.

633
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,240
And the CIA officer gave him permission.

634
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,800
The guy above him said he couldn't go, but then Charles Manson still got to go.

635
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,160
Oh, why not?

636
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,160
Why not?

637
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,160
He's a nice guy.

638
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,400
He's a nice guy.

639
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,400
Yep.

640
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,060
He requested permission.

641
00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:05,400
His officer said, okay.

642
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:13,080
The person in charge of him said no, but then still he got approved.

643
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:19,720
Isn't that interesting?

644
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:20,720
Isn't that interesting?

645
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,160
I mean, everything seems above board.

646
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,880
I don't know what you're going on and on about, Mike.

647
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,400
That was heavy, heavy sarcasm for all of our listeners.

648
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,720
I'm about halfway through my cigar.

649
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,920
Yeah, me too.

650
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:34,920
It's good.

651
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:35,920
It's flavorful.

652
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,920
It's got nice ash.

653
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,920
Shout out to us.

654
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,120
Hey.

655
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,120
It tastes good.

656
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,120
I really like this one.

657
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,120
This one's really good.

658
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,800
Yeah, I'm glad it's not a disappointment.

659
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,760
The rapper really wanted me to make it good.

660
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:52,760
Yeah.

661
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,080
It has very nice shelf appeal.

662
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,000
Yes, it has nice shelf appeal.

663
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,600
It has nice, you know, I'm sitting here smoking it appeal.

664
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,720
I mean, I'm in the garage so nobody else can see it and it's snowing and cold out, but if

665
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:09,520
I were out and about town, everybody would say, wow, what a swell cigar that guy has.

666
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:10,520
Right.

667
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:11,520
No, it looks great.

668
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,520
It smokes really good.

669
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,520
Yes.

670
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,480
So I'm not connecting any of these points, but we will get there.

671
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:19,480
We will get there.

672
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:20,480
Oh, I have faith in you, Mike.

673
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:21,480
I'm throwing out little facts.

674
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:22,480
I'm throwing out little facts.

675
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:28,480
I'm hoping that everybody who's still listening is still connecting.

676
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:39,400
At the trial, the idea that Manson was trying to intimidate Terry Melcher was a major theme

677
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,000
and Terry Melcher was a huge record producer who turned down a contract for him at the

678
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,000
time.

679
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,000
Yeah.

680
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,240
It was a huge deal and Terry Melcher said he only met him like twice and Manson was

681
00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:53,480
a freak and all this stuff.

682
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:54,480
Yeah.

683
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,280
Really quick, since you're throwing out all these dates and everything, let's what was

684
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,040
the date of the murders that got him caught?

685
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,080
Oh, let's look it up.

686
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:10,720
I mean, I'm just trying to keep the timeline straight because he's on parole and he goes

687
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:17,240
to Mexico, but is he on parole for the thing that he did or is he not yet caught for the

688
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:18,240
thing?

689
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:22,760
So the murders occurred in 1969, the end of 1969.

690
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:23,760
Okay.

691
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,760
So we're in 68.

692
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:31,240
Manson was on federal parole from the time he was 15 years old.

693
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:32,240
Okay.

694
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:33,240
Yeah.

695
00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:39,280
He spent more years in federal prison than out.

696
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,840
Yeah, because he was what, 31?

697
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:43,840
He was 35.

698
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:44,840
35, okay.

699
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

700
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:46,840
Yeah, okay.

701
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:53,320
He spent more time in prison than out of prison before the murders.

702
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,640
Okay.

703
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,960
I just wanted to clear up the timeline a little bit because I get a little fuzzy on dates

704
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,640
and years and stuff.

705
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:06,920
He pimped girls, he stole cars, all the shit that the Manson family was long before the

706
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:07,920
Manson family.

707
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:13,880
He was pimping women and stealing shit and beating people up and all that nonsense.

708
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,120
He's a professional criminal.

709
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,880
That's what he does.

710
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,080
He's scumbag.

711
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,400
It's not surprising that he was doing criminal activity.

712
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,520
Let's put it that way.

713
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:26,520
Yeah, yeah.

714
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,040
Easy fall guy.

715
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,120
Easy fall guy.

716
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,760
Easy guy if you're going to dose somebody and try to create a response.

717
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,120
Good guy to pick.

718
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:37,120
Yeah.

719
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,120
Well, because you've got him.

720
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,800
You got him dead to rights on his charges.

721
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,720
He's already been found guilty and all they have to do is float by some lighter sentence

722
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:50,600
or more freedom on his parole or whatever and he'll probably willingly agree to anything.

723
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:51,600
You know?

724
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:52,600
Right.

725
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,200
It's manipulatable for sure.

726
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:55,200
Yes.

727
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:01,200
So anyway, during the trial, during the helter skelter trial, one of the major points was

728
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:10,480
that Terry Mulcher said, oh, he killed the Tate and those people because he wanted to

729
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,840
send a message to Terry Mulcher that he wanted a record deal.

730
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,920
And Terry Mulcher only met him a couple of times and blah, blah, blah.

731
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:25,560
Well, Nate, turns out Terry Mulcher and Charles Manson were very friendly with each other.

732
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:26,560
OK.

733
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:34,000
And they met at least three times after the murders.

734
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:40,680
I guess that message went through then, huh?

735
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,440
Yep.

736
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,720
During the murders, there was a groundskeeper who magically didn't hear any of the gunshots

737
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:49,720
that were going on.

738
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:50,720
Yeah.

739
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,000
Well, he had his his AirPods in, right?

740
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,240
And he was listening to Marilyn Manson.

741
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:59,720
They actually said that he smoked marijuana and listened to a loud record.

742
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:03,160
OK.

743
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,880
So he couldn't hear gunshots.

744
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:05,880
Yeah.

745
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:06,880
How far away was he?

746
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,880
He was on the property.

747
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:08,880
Yeah.

748
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:14,920
He was in like a groundskeeper's house, like 150 feet away or whatever from a fucking 38

749
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:15,920
special.

750
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,600
I don't know what the actual caliber was.

751
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,000
I'm guessing it's a 38.

752
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,120
I don't know.

753
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,120
I should look at them.

754
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,600
I'm guessing it was a 38.

755
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,200
So I know Hollywood likes to tell everybody that if you put a silencer on a gun, you can't

756
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,440
hear it and it's absolutely silent.

757
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,560
And to these people, I say you've you've never been around a gun that's that's fired.

758
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,560
I mean, I've never been around a silencer, but everything I've read about silencers,

759
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,960
not that I've read about them, is that they dampen the sound a bit, but it's not not silent.

760
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,920
You can't go through and shoot somebody at a urinal and the person at the next urinal

761
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,200
doesn't hear it.

762
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,200
You know what I mean?

763
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,640
I this is a total aside.

764
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,200
I have a buddy who has a silencer for his 45.

765
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,240
And it's like nine inches long.

766
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:04,920
And when you shoot it, all you hear is the slide going and the bullet going out because

767
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,920
you still hear that error.

768
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,360
You know, you hear it break the sound barrier.

769
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,640
You don't hear the bang.

770
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,360
It muffles all that bang noise, so you hear the slide and you hear that like that.

771
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,040
OK, very convincing.

772
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,920
I mean, it's pretty close to the movies, but not quite.

773
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:22,920
You know what I mean?

774
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,000
The guy would shoot it without hearing protection.

775
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,080
Yeah, but.

776
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,520
But we're not we're not saying Manson was using a silencer.

777
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:37,160
I'm just saying that guns are an awful lot louder than anybody in Hollywood would have

778
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,280
you believe if that's your only exposure to gunshots.

779
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,600
Assuming that they use the 38, which is a very common round at the time.

780
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,080
Yeah, we both own firearms that shoot a 38.

781
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,840
Yeah, and they're loud.

782
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,560
There's no reason to think that you would.

783
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,520
I mean, it's fucking loud.

784
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,160
Especially out of a snub nose barrel or even a four inch barrel.

785
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,160
That's a loud firearm.

786
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,800
Oh, it's so loud.

787
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:12,000
But I don't think in 69 that there were records there weren't like death metal records or

788
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:17,240
rap records that had gunshots as part of the soundtrack or the background music.

789
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:23,200
So unless he's like really blasting the turtles to everything, there is a season turn, turn,

790
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:24,200
turn.

791
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:25,360
He's still going to hear it.

792
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,960
You know, there's just no music loud enough.

793
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,680
There's no fucking way.

794
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,620
Another aside, there was a guy who claimed that he went up there to the site and cleaned

795
00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:35,620
it up.

796
00:40:35,620 --> 00:40:40,080
The RCA guy, Wilton, said he went up there and cleaned it up.

797
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,080
OK.

798
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,080
Yeah.

799
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,080
He cleaned up the site to make it look more believable.

800
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:46,080
Yeah.

801
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,080
Or whatever.

802
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,600
That's just set dressing in Hollywood.

803
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:57,120
Hollywood comes into effect because Terry Melcher, it was Doris Day's son, who is Hollywood

804
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:08,560
where he was a gold label executive record producer and he had serious ties with Manson.

805
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,640
He claimed that he didn't know Charles Manson, all a law.

806
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,320
His groundskeeper for a year and a half was a member of the Manson family.

807
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,320
OK.

808
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:23,600
And he had his main groundskeeper was a member of that family and he was definitely tied

809
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:24,960
to Charles Manson.

810
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,520
He knew that motherfucker.

811
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,520
Yeah, no doubt.

812
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:35,120
And also they covered up for Roman Polanski during the investigation.

813
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:36,920
There's layers and layers of corruption.

814
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,120
That's why it gets so confusing.

815
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,240
During the Manson investigation, Polanski was involved in that.

816
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:45,520
Polanski was Sharon Tate's husband, my bro.

817
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,080
Oh, sorry.

818
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,040
But he's done some fucked up shit, hasn't he?

819
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:51,040
Roman Polanski?

820
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:52,040
Yeah.

821
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,040
Roman Polanski was raping people.

822
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,040
Is he on the run still?

823
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:55,040
Or did he die?

824
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,040
I don't know.

825
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,040
Yeah, he's on the run still.

826
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

827
00:41:58,040 --> 00:41:59,040
He's in Eastern Europe.

828
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,040
He can't come into Interpol or the United States.

829
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,040
Yeah.

830
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:05,040
Yeah.

831
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,560
So like Sharon Tate was his wife and Roman Polanski was her husband and they killed his

832
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,040
wife when he was gone.

833
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,040
Yeah.

834
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,080
And there was some fucked up shit going on.

835
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:21,100
The cops admitted that they found a sex tape with Roman Polanski and his wife.

836
00:42:21,100 --> 00:42:27,280
The initial thing said that Roman Polanski was doing some real messed up stuff.

837
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:32,280
Not really clear, but they think that it was like Sharon Tate was being raped in it.

838
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:33,280
OK.

839
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,880
And then the second version of the story was, oh yeah, it was Roman Polanski and Sharon

840
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,440
Tate having sex and they just.

841
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,440
It was consensual.

842
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,440
Or whatever.

843
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,440
Yeah.

844
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:43,440
Yeah.

845
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:44,440
They followed the sex tape.

846
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:50,960
Adjust your VHS tracking and it's clearly not a rape if you adjust the tracking on that

847
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:51,960
VHS.

848
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:52,960
Right.

849
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,120
There's layers of corruption to this whole fucking deal.

850
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,120
Yeah.

851
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,120
Layers of corruption.

852
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:05,880
That's why it's so confusing is because everybody's implicated in different crimes for different

853
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:06,880
reasons.

854
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,240
It seems that everybody has their own motive too.

855
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:11,240
So.

856
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:15,360
It makes the perfect crime because everybody has their own motive to lie.

857
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:16,360
Yeah.

858
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,760
If Sharon Tate was upset with Roman Polanski for his nefarious behavior that he's still

859
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,640
on the run from and for, then she has a motive.

860
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:32,920
But then he has a motive to off her and have Charles help him and all that.

861
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,920
So yeah, it gets very complicated and I think.

862
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,040
Well, Terry Melcher was involved with Roman Polanski.

863
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,040
Yeah.

864
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:44,600
There's rumors that they were having gang bangs at the house and then they refuted that

865
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:45,680
later.

866
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,200
But the rumors were they're having like these crazy orgies where the Manson family were

867
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,200
involved.

868
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:51,200
Yeah.

869
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,200
And yeah.

870
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,200
I mean, that's what you do, right?

871
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,200
There's layers of shit piled on top of it.

872
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,400
You get hopped up on LSD amphetamines and then you do gang bangs with runaways and underage

873
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,400
girls, right?

874
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:05,400
Right.

875
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:11,080
Well, that was another part of it is that the official story is that Manson was just

876
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,800
using LSD.

877
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,480
But then Tex Wachsens, who also said that they had a bunch of bodies buried, said, yeah,

878
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:19,920
they were doing speed all the time.

879
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,600
So the official story was that they weren't using amphetamines.

880
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,760
But then one of the Manson family members who was directly involved with the murders

881
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,220
said, yeah, we were doing speed constantly.

882
00:44:30,220 --> 00:44:34,600
So they're not even being truthful about the drugs they were using.

883
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:35,600
Yeah.

884
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:36,600
Very interesting.

885
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:43,200
You know, I mean, it's kind of the same thing with the war on drugs, right?

886
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:48,760
Like, after so long of the war on drugs, I'd like to give a big hand to drugs for winning

887
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,840
that war, you know?

888
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:58,560
But back in that era, you know, that's where that bad stigma for marijuana and LSD and

889
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,520
all these other things because the government didn't want people to have those things.

890
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:10,120
But this played into the government's hands as far as banning LSD and marijuana for sure.

891
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,120
Yeah.

892
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,960
And potentially it was a CIA operation.

893
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:21,000
There's still like a little morsel that ties it all together at the end.

894
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,000
Oh, yeah.

895
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,160
It ties it all together at the end.

896
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,200
Hey, should we?

897
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,360
This is a complete aside, has nothing to do with the topic of this episode.

898
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,880
Should we try and find some like LSD cigars, do you think, for an episode?

899
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,480
I don't think they make that, that we can legally get in the United States.

900
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:47,120
Well, we could, you know, go to Mexico.

901
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,280
I wouldn't trust anything like that.

902
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,800
I would have to get it from a reputable source.

903
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:57,000
We could totally go to Mexico for that episode, someplace where it was legal and smoke it.

904
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,000
Sure.

905
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,000
Yeah.

906
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,880
I would, we could talk about it later, but I don't think.

907
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:02,880
No, no, I know.

908
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:04,640
I'm just, yeah.

909
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,400
I don't think smoking LSD would be the way to do LSD, but.

910
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,080
No, I've tried LSD.

911
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,080
I've never done it.

912
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,080
Allegedly.

913
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,040
And it was illuminating for sure, but horrifying.

914
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,040
Horrifying.

915
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:24,400
I can imagine, but I feel like if you're in a safe spot, it's probably not quite as scary.

916
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,400
I think it's more about your mind space.

917
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,400
You know?

918
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,400
Yeah.

919
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,360
At the time I had a major ego.

920
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:32,360
What?

921
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,160
And that fucked me right in the ass for sure.

922
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:37,360
Yeah.

923
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:38,360
Right in the ass.

924
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,360
I was fucked.

925
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,000
I don't mean anything mean by that.

926
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,000
I just mean like, you know.

927
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,000
Oh, dude, I know.

928
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,000
I mean, you know.

929
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,000
We know each other.

930
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,000
We all know.

931
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,240
We've talked about it, both of our egos on the show before, so.

932
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:51,240
Should come as no surprise.

933
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:52,720
Both of us have major egos.

934
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,960
That's why we hated each other when we first met each other.

935
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:56,960
Yeah.

936
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,800
We both had a lot of egos, spent enough time around each other and they got comfortable.

937
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,360
And now we've got one massive shared ego.

938
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:03,360
Right.

939
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,360
Exactly.

940
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,760
Well, I think we both got older and wiser about her.

941
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:07,760
Yeah.

942
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,840
I mean, I don't know about the older part, but definitely wiser for sure.

943
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,200
I think that both you and I learned that we're not correct all the time.

944
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:16,200
You know what I mean?

945
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,960
I think when we first met each other, both of us were convinced that we were right all

946
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:20,960
the time.

947
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:21,960
Yeah.

948
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:22,960
And everything was black and white.

949
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:23,960
I'm right like never, like very rarely.

950
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:29,520
And now I'm convinced that everything is gray and I don't know what's going on and why are

951
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:30,760
people screaming and crying?

952
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:31,760
I don't know.

953
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:32,760
Right.

954
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:33,760
Like I'm convinced.

955
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:34,760
But here we are.

956
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,120
If I think I'm right, I should probably take more information in.

957
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:40,120
Yeah.

958
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:41,120
Yeah.

959
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:49,720
Come up with a better answer.

960
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:54,200
So anyway, back to the Manson case.

961
00:47:54,200 --> 00:48:01,480
What we're all getting down to here is Helter Skelter was the lynchpin for the Manson family

962
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,720
because Charles Manson mind controlled these people and he wanted to start a race war.

963
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:07,720
Yeah.

964
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:12,880
But all the evidence shows he had nothing to do with a race war.

965
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:20,440
The main people who talked against Manson gave contradictory evidence and Terry Mulcher

966
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:26,640
was a main person that talked about him because it was all about scaring Terry Mulcher.

967
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,480
But Terry Mulcher's a family involved with his enterprises.

968
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,220
Terry Mulcher met with Manson several times afterwards.

969
00:48:33,220 --> 00:48:35,000
We all know this.

970
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,080
The Terry Mulcher thing is bullshit.

971
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,360
They were tied into each other.

972
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:40,360
Yeah.

973
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,880
But nobody disagrees that Manson committed the murders.

974
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:45,880
For sure.

975
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:46,880
Yeah.

976
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:47,880
We all know this.

977
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:55,040
The sticking point is the motive behind it and who else might be implicated.

978
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:59,840
We all know Manson did it, but it's who else shares the blame.

979
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:00,840
Exactly.

980
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:06,840
So of the people that were murdered, there was Folger, the girl Folger, who was the heiress

981
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,220
to the Folger fortune.

982
00:49:09,220 --> 00:49:10,840
The coffee people.

983
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:11,840
The coffee people.

984
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,920
Her boyfriend, who was some Portuguese guy or a Polish guy.

985
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:17,920
Okay.

986
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,240
That was good buddies with Roman Polanski.

987
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:24,760
There was a hairdresser who was like a top in Sharon Tate.

988
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,440
So Sharon Tate's hairdresser.

989
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,480
Sharon Tate's hairdresser slash ex-boyfriend.

990
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:31,480
Okay.

991
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:38,400
Roman Polanski's buddy and Roman Polanski's buddy's girlfriend, who happened to be a Folger

992
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,160
heiress, okay?

993
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:41,160
Yes.

994
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:49,480
Roman Polanski's buddy, who was the boyfriend of the Folger heiress, was a drug dealer.

995
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:50,960
Hard drug dealer.

996
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,200
Yeah.

997
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,440
No doubt about it.

998
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:58,240
Who also got into arguments with members of the Manson family about their drug deal.

999
00:49:58,240 --> 00:49:59,280
Okay.

1000
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,800
That was never talked about in the court, but that is a fucking fact.

1001
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:08,560
The Folger heiress girl, she's out, there's no real connection that we know of.

1002
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,040
Yeah other than wrong boyfriend.

1003
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,360
Wrong boyfriend, wrong time.

1004
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,960
The hairdresser had ties.

1005
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,920
Oh jeez.

1006
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,800
That's on me.

1007
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:21,800
That's on you.

1008
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:22,800
That's on me.

1009
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,760
Sorry people.

1010
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,480
I have a little list on my phone and I pressed the wrong button and it started making noise.

1011
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:29,920
I'm sorry people.

1012
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,200
That's how you know when you're old.

1013
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,920
Your phone does something you don't want it to do and you're like, I guess, yeah, that's

1014
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:36,920
my bad.

1015
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:42,920
But I do think the autoplay videos are terrible on a lot of mobile sites and stuff.

1016
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:43,920
Well it's about addiction.

1017
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,040
If they want to get you in.

1018
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:47,040
Yeah.

1019
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,040
And I want out.

1020
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:49,040
If they can make you watch one, they can make you watch 20.

1021
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,960
I've been telling everybody I want out.

1022
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:52,960
I fall into it too.

1023
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,060
I find myself an hour later, I'm not joking.

1024
00:50:56,060 --> 00:50:57,060
It's fucking insane.

1025
00:50:57,060 --> 00:50:58,280
I fall into it.

1026
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:04,440
You should have a kid because when they're two, I was just talking to Sarah about this

1027
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,440
tonight.

1028
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,480
I'm like, I don't even have time when our daughter's awake to listen to a full three

1029
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,640
minute song without being interrupted.

1030
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,320
So you would never fall into that trap because it wouldn't happen.

1031
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:17,320
Yeah.

1032
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:22,840
I find myself sitting on the toilet and I look at the time.

1033
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,360
That's my sanctuary now.

1034
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,640
I'm like, what the fuck happened to my time?

1035
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,360
I'm sitting on the toilet.

1036
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:32,760
What's going on?

1037
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,280
So anyway, there's layers here people.

1038
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:36,900
There's layers here people.

1039
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:44,160
The one guy who was Roman Polanski's best buddy was a known drug dealer bringing drugs

1040
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:49,720
into the United States, tied in with other people who were all arrested and put in prison

1041
00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:50,720
later.

1042
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:51,720
Yeah.

1043
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:54,400
Who was undoubtedly selling drugs to the Manson family.

1044
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:55,400
Undoubtedly.

1045
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,440
Oh, yeah.

1046
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,200
The hairdresser had ties to the mafia and the CIA.

1047
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:02,360
OK.

1048
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:09,560
And this guy interviewed his assistant who took over the business and the mafia guys all

1049
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,360
told him, hey, you're OK.

1050
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:12,960
You're not going to you're OK.

1051
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:14,520
You just keep on cutting her hair.

1052
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:21,240
So the mafia guys, apparently they why the hairdresser was involved with this killing.

1053
00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:24,800
According to this hairdresser, who knows?

1054
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:25,800
Maybe he was lying.

1055
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:26,800
Yeah.

1056
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:31,920
The hairdresser guy that was that was killed had ties to the CIA.

1057
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:33,240
He had ties to the mafia.

1058
00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:35,320
He was deeply in debt.

1059
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,760
He was deep into this sphere.

1060
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:38,760
OK.

1061
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,720
That's what it was.

1062
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:42,800
It was definitely not an innocent.

1063
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:50,840
And his protege claimed that these mafiosos were aware of why and how everything was going

1064
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,160
on.

1065
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:58,720
And for those who are not up on this, the mafia and the unions and the fucking federal

1066
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:03,080
government are all tied together, especially back in the 60s.

1067
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:04,080
We all know.

1068
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:05,080
Yeah.

1069
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:12,160
And they're probably more so now, but but just less in public or less in public view.

1070
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,080
It wasn't publicly known at that time.

1071
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,760
No, not at the time.

1072
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,560
I'm saying I don't think anything's changed.

1073
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,280
I don't think anything's changed either.

1074
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:30,720
Big unions and mafia and see like government alphabet programs are all tied together.

1075
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:31,720
Yeah.

1076
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:36,480
And this guy had connections and he might have pissed people off.

1077
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:37,480
Nobody really knows.

1078
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,600
He's too deep state to really know, but it's possible.

1079
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:41,600
Yeah.

1080
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:50,440
So it is possible that Charles Manson was angry at these people because of the orgies

1081
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:54,440
that were supposedly not happening, but wink, wink were happening.

1082
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:55,440
Yeah.

1083
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:02,080
That he was funding girls for because he had a bunch of runaway teenage underage sex slaves.

1084
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:08,800
And he was angry at her, aka the guy that was Roman Palantese's best buddy.

1085
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:15,800
He might have just killed him because he was pissed off about, you know, them welching

1086
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:20,240
his sex slaves or watching on his drug deal or whatever.

1087
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:21,240
Doing too much for drugs.

1088
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:22,480
Like who knows anything.

1089
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:23,480
Right.

1090
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:29,600
There's reasonable explanations other than the helter skelter defense and the helter

1091
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:38,300
skelter defense was boosted because enough being a loser lifetime criminal still hated

1092
00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:41,480
black people and thought that he was because he was white.

1093
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:42,880
He was better than black people.

1094
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,400
Who was this now?

1095
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:48,040
Lifetime Charles Manson was a avowed racist.

1096
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:49,040
Okay.

1097
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,080
Yeah, he thought he he thought black people were scum.

1098
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:57,400
That's where they built the helter skelter defense because he was a rabid racist.

1099
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:58,400
Yeah.

1100
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,240
Which again, he's like a loser.

1101
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:02,240
Well yeah.

1102
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:03,240
Scum of the earth.

1103
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:05,160
That's par for the course for.

1104
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:06,160
Right.

1105
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:07,160
Par for the course.

1106
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,960
He thought he was better than black people even though he was a criminal junkie piece

1107
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:10,960
of shit.

1108
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:12,080
But yeah.

1109
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:18,040
So there's a lot of evidence to show that there's other motives, let's say, for the

1110
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,120
murders than helter skelter.

1111
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:21,120
Right.

1112
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:30,720
There's tie ins with multiple people with other that Charles Manson has tie ins with

1113
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:34,360
and there's no clear reason why anything is going on.

1114
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,640
But we're pretty clear that it's not helter skelter.

1115
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,800
Yeah.

1116
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:48,380
Of all of the things that you've shared thus far, the one thing that's constantly stuck

1117
00:55:48,380 --> 00:55:55,480
out with all the CIA, the mind control experiments and the underage women and the orgies and

1118
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:59,320
Roman Polanski, that all just screams to me race war.

1119
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:04,680
So it definitely is the most viable option of all of the things that you've told me.

1120
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:05,680
Yeah.

1121
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:11,520
Is the drug deal gone bad or some other reason?

1122
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,680
Or just two big egos at the same bowling alley.

1123
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:15,880
Right.

1124
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:20,560
They could have been two big egos at the bowling alley and I'll tell you what, stabbings have

1125
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,200
happened for less.

1126
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:23,200
Yeah.

1127
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:29,360
Well, and that kind of goes back to the economic hitman book where one person said that the

1128
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:34,220
economic hitman book didn't make sense because $4 million isn't a high enough sum to kill

1129
00:56:34,220 --> 00:56:35,360
somebody for.

1130
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,320
And it's like, well, look, dude, somebody's been killed over a $5 bill, I'm sure.

1131
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,400
Like I know it somewhere out there.

1132
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:46,880
Well, Richard Klinsky, the Iceman, used to kill people for like $100,000 and he was a

1133
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:47,880
professional.

1134
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,360
You know what I mean?

1135
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:50,360
Yeah.

1136
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:51,360
Of course.

1137
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:52,360
Of course.

1138
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,520
We could cover that book at some point in the future, by the way.

1139
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:56,520
I have it.

1140
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:57,520
I've read it.

1141
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:58,520
Okay.

1142
00:56:58,520 --> 00:56:59,520
Iceman.

1143
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:00,520
Pretty interesting stuff.

1144
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:01,520
Yeah.

1145
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,160
We'll put it on the docket.

1146
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,920
Anyway, here's the linchpin.

1147
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:07,400
Here we go.

1148
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:08,400
Here's the linchpin.

1149
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:14,600
We talked about Haight-Ashbury Clinic and these two doctors that were CIA type operatives.

1150
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:19,180
And the fact that Charles Manson was a regular there for a year.

1151
00:57:19,180 --> 00:57:27,320
The guy who founded the Haight-Ashbury Clinic never got his doctorate in psychological medicine.

1152
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:28,440
Okay.

1153
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:33,680
But he did his research and he published it and he worked for the CIA his whole life,

1154
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:34,680
by the way.

1155
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:35,680
Okay.

1156
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:36,680
On rats.

1157
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:43,760
And he created rat environments and mouse environments where he would create a dominant

1158
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:53,840
rat that would create a harem of men and maniacally murder beta males.

1159
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:54,960
Yep.

1160
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:59,960
And they would run around with these harem of women and kill beta males and have this

1161
00:57:59,960 --> 00:58:01,920
psychotic society.

1162
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:07,240
And he induced it without drugs and then he induced it with drugs and he used LSD and

1163
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,400
he used amphetamines and he used a combination of the fact.

1164
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:11,400
Okay.

1165
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:18,880
And he was doing research specifically to try to create ubermenches in rats.

1166
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:19,880
Okay.

1167
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,320
That's what his specialty was.

1168
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:28,440
So the guy involved with the clinic that Charles Manson was going to specifically tried to

1169
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,360
create a Charles Manson but in rats.

1170
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,320
And he was funded by the CIA and worked for MKUltra.

1171
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:37,600
Yep.

1172
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,760
Did he try to create the ubermench man with drugs?

1173
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,040
Come on now.

1174
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:43,320
He's a professional.

1175
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,320
He doesn't let his research blend with his outreach.

1176
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:53,040
He never got his doctorate name but he worked for the CIA his entire life.

1177
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:54,040
Yeah.

1178
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:55,040
You know what?

1179
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:56,040
You don't need a doctorate.

1180
00:58:56,040 --> 00:59:00,960
He did research specifically in creating a drug induced ubermench type character.

1181
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:09,600
Do you think his rat was named Charlie?

1182
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,200
Is that a coincidence?

1183
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:13,200
Is that a coincidence?

1184
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:18,400
I would say no but again and I think it's an important time for our usual disclaimer,

1185
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:23,480
his Mike and I are not doctors or lawyers so get your legal and medical advice from

1186
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:24,480
somewhere else.

1187
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:25,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1188
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,440
Just somebody who wants to learn and sometimes the more you know.

1189
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,720
And his partner in crime happened to be the guy in charge of MKUltra who was trying to

1190
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,800
do mind control with LSD.

1191
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:42,440
So the guy who was specifically involved trying to create ubermench rats got in contact, ran

1192
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:47,360
the clinic with another guy who was trying to do mind control with drugs.

1193
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:48,360
Yeah.

1194
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:54,400
These two fucking guys mixed with the CIA operative that was Charles Manson's parole

1195
00:59:54,400 --> 01:00:00,780
officer mixed with this other fucking fourth guy that said that he cleaned up all Charles

1196
01:00:00,780 --> 01:00:02,120
Manson messes.

1197
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:08,060
You don't think that those four fucking characters could have assisted with this mess?

1198
01:00:08,060 --> 01:00:11,200
This is a clear cut case of racism.

1199
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:22,160
I'm just saying, does it make sense for some hippie dude that was a career criminal who

1200
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:29,240
got off on multiple federal charges after he was already a felon?

1201
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:30,240
Yeah.

1202
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:31,240
Right.

1203
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,400
The largest raid in LA County's history.

1204
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:40,560
He shot somebody and he was named by the person he shot and went to jail and got out.

1205
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:41,560
Yep.

1206
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:49,080
Atkins, who was one of the girls that went against him, was arrested for drugging and

1207
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:54,560
raping a minor whose father was a fucking sheriff's deputy.

1208
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,200
Yeah.

1209
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,520
How can all this happen?

1210
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:00,520
Quote unquote.

1211
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:02,040
I'm putting big air quotes.

1212
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,120
How can all these?

1213
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:14,680
There's multiple missing people's reports and suicides.

1214
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,240
He went through a couple of them.

1215
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,760
Very clearly these people probably did not get a suicide.

1216
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:25,840
There's no reason for a 23-year-old man who had a good job, who was going to college to

1217
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,880
commit suicide in a fucking shitty ass motel in the middle of the desert for no reason.

1218
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:31,840
Who was on a hiking trip?

1219
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:32,840
No reason.

1220
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:39,040
Well, and I think, let's just go back a few seconds here, 45 seconds, a minute and a half.

1221
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:48,240
The woman who raped an underage person who happened to be the son of the sheriff.

1222
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,160
This does not scream to me intelligence.

1223
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:56,960
A lot of the random stuff that Charles Manson was arrested for and then let go and got off

1224
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,880
the hook on were not smart crimes.

1225
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:08,200
It wasn't like he was some kind of Rain Man character or somebody who is incredibly brilliant

1226
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:13,080
and doing these really like thinky and logical things.

1227
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,640
The prosecution was like, hey, you almost got us that time.

1228
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,960
You're really smart and bright.

1229
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:27,440
It's a stretch to say that he premeditated something in order to start a race war for

1230
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:28,660
anything.

1231
01:02:28,660 --> 01:02:32,280
He probably didn't even know what he was going to order at a restaurant until he got there

1232
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:33,280
and looked at the men.

1233
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:34,280
You know what I mean?

1234
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,760
Like he's not, he doesn't strike me or his clan doesn't strike me as plan a headers.

1235
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:39,760
No.

1236
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,280
And if you listen to a Charlie Manson interview, it's psychotic.

1237
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:50,640
And if you listen to his music, it's good as far as like shitty folk music that's old

1238
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,260
timey goes.

1239
01:02:52,260 --> 01:02:58,200
But it's not like I say, it reminds me of Mississippi Delta blues, but it's not Lead

1240
01:02:58,200 --> 01:02:59,200
Belly.

1241
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:00,200
You know what I mean?

1242
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:01,200
Yeah.

1243
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:06,360
It's not like that crisp sharp, like I murdered a man because he slept with my wife.

1244
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:07,360
Bang!

1245
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:08,360
Like, you know what I mean?

1246
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:13,920
Like it doesn't have that like crispness, which for our listeners who have never listened

1247
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,320
to Lead Belly, you should.

1248
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:18,400
He's fantastic.

1249
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:25,080
I made my Sarah have nightmares by listening to that bill.

1250
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,440
So now I've never listened to Lead Belly.

1251
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,200
Oh, it's scary.

1252
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:36,440
As you know, and maybe some of our listeners don't know is we have a fairly sizable record

1253
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,680
collection and we don't have any Lead Belly.

1254
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:44,360
So you'll have to send me or give me now the names of a couple of albums I should be on

1255
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,840
the lookout for to round out our vinyl collection.

1256
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:49,720
I wouldn't get a record by Lead Belly.

1257
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,480
I don't know if I mean, I'm sure he does.

1258
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:59,000
Cody Guthrie or Cisco Houston, they're so ancient that they don't put records out anymore

1259
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,800
for those guys.

1260
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:08,120
That's like a deep dark heart of America 1930s, 1940s, like grit.

1261
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,120
You know what I mean?

1262
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:11,120
Like work.

1263
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:12,880
But his stuff's available like online.

1264
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,920
So what's what's an album?

1265
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,720
What's a good starting point for Lead Belly then?

1266
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:19,720
Or your favorite record?

1267
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:21,680
I'll get back to you on that.

1268
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:22,680
I get back.

1269
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:23,680
OK, all right.

1270
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:25,600
I don't want I don't like it called out on that.

1271
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:31,040
I would say a good starting point would be Intoxicated Rat by Cisco Houston.

1272
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,600
OK, which is a very happy song.

1273
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:38,560
And it's about a rat that gets really drunk and does things he should not do.

1274
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:39,920
Is the rats name Charlie?

1275
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:41,380
No, it's not.

1276
01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:42,380
It's not.

1277
01:04:42,380 --> 01:04:44,740
But blacklisted by the FBI.

1278
01:04:44,740 --> 01:04:48,680
And he had to change his name and became a radio DJ afterwards.

1279
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:53,760
All those guys are like, no, not after that song, but after his music career.

1280
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:59,240
A lot of these guys joined the merchant Marine during the Second World War and they were

1281
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:00,740
anti-fascists.

1282
01:05:00,740 --> 01:05:05,160
But a lot of them were way too socialist for comfort.

1283
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:06,720
You know what I mean?

1284
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:07,720
Yeah.

1285
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:13,200
So yeah, their guitar killed fascists, but they also spouted socialist lies.

1286
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,200
Ha ha ha.

1287
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:16,200
Yes.

1288
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:23,360
And led Billy led Billy is a guy who the apocryphal story was that he murdered his wife.

1289
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,040
He didn't actually murder his wife.

1290
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:31,200
He stabbed his girl, his wife's boyfriend, and he went to jail.

1291
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:36,080
And he's saying so pretty that the warden let him out, which was not true.

1292
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:39,660
He served his time, which is only like five years at the time.

1293
01:05:39,660 --> 01:05:42,800
And then he became an outstanding member of society.

1294
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:48,360
But the apocryphal story is that he murdered his lover and he got out of prison because

1295
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:49,800
he sang so pretty.

1296
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:55,640
The truth is he stabbed his wife's boyfriend and got out after five years and then divorce

1297
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,440
his wife and got a nicer wife.

1298
01:05:58,440 --> 01:05:59,440
Yeah.

1299
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,200
But also saying pretty.

1300
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:07,280
So that part checks out Billy is like I say, if you if you're not listening to led Billy,

1301
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,240
you're not listening to blues music.

1302
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:17,680
Yeah, I played Sarah a couple of songs where he Suzy Suzy Q.

1303
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:22,840
I think it was Suzy Q where it's like, OK, talks about like murdering a woman.

1304
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:23,840
Yeah.

1305
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:30,640
I showed her all the facts and she's like, that's so dark and she didn't sleep.

1306
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:36,560
But yeah, I'll have to get back to you with that.

1307
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:37,560
I'll bring it.

1308
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:38,560
Yeah, sounds good.

1309
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:44,040
But anyway, the whole point of this episode is Helder Skelter.

1310
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:46,480
And I didn't get into Bugliosi.

1311
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,760
Gosh, I wish I would have gotten a Bugliosi.

1312
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:50,760
He's the prosecutor.

1313
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:56,000
OK, so the prosecutor, he's psychotic.

1314
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:02,200
And he went after the milkman and he had multiple paternity tests on his children.

1315
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:07,880
He went after this guy, the milkman sued him back and won a shit ton of money off of him.

1316
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:08,880
He's a psycho.

1317
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:15,640
He was directly involved with being like corrupt as shit and using his power as a prosecutor

1318
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:17,680
to create criminal acts.

1319
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:19,740
He's implicated in crimes as well.

1320
01:07:19,740 --> 01:07:25,560
So the guy who who did the Charles Manson investigation is a criminal.

1321
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,800
Yeah, also.

1322
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,440
That's another layer, by the way.

1323
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:30,440
I just pop.

1324
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:36,160
I know I popped that on the end, but the guy who was the fucking lawyer was a criminal.

1325
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:37,160
He's a liar.

1326
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,120
We know he's a perjurer.

1327
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,880
He's straight up like a piece of shit.

1328
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,020
Should not have been a lawyer at all.

1329
01:07:44,020 --> 01:07:45,360
So I guess that's an additive thing.

1330
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,360
I can't believe I forgot that.

1331
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,920
Yeah, Bugliosi is garbage.

1332
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,520
He should have been in person.

1333
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,000
Yeah, he shouldn't have been trying anything.

1334
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:58,640
No, he should have been trying to get went after a guy who was and who did not fuck his

1335
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:04,840
wife and to the point where even his wife said that he should be committed to a psych

1336
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:06,720
ward during the lawsuit.

1337
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:07,720
Yeah.

1338
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:08,720
Yeah.

1339
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:15,800
Like, so even the lawyer or the guy who got Manson arrested is a psycho who is, again,

1340
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:17,920
weak to insinuation.

1341
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:20,680
Let's put it that way.

1342
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:21,680
You know what I mean?

1343
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:22,680
Yeah.

1344
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:29,920
If there was a conspiracy, he'd be somebody that would be vulnerable to their coercion

1345
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:30,920
because he's not legitimate.

1346
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:33,640
He'd be willing to play along.

1347
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:34,640
What does he care?

1348
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:36,200
Yeah, he's got to play along.

1349
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:37,400
He's a fucking scumbag.

1350
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:43,920
Yeah, he's already flexed his authority, so he wouldn't care doing it one more time.

1351
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:44,920
Right.

1352
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,880
He's already been implicated in crimes himself.

1353
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:52,560
Did that guy keep his prosecutor job or did he finally get brought to trial?

1354
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:58,600
Yeah, he ran for district prosecutor several times and he ran for district attorney or

1355
01:08:58,600 --> 01:08:59,600
not district attorney.

1356
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:02,920
He ran for district attorney several times, then he ran for secretary of state or whatever

1357
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,280
it is for the state of California.

1358
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:11,080
Every time he did, all these stories about him being a fucking crazy psycho came out

1359
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,000
and then he's back down.

1360
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:19,040
He kept being a prosecutor, but he never made it past being just a regular ass prosecutor,

1361
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:25,960
even though he prosecuted the biggest crime in human history, Charles Manson, because

1362
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:27,960
he's a fucking criminal.

1363
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:29,560
He's a criminal himself.

1364
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:30,560
Yeah.

1365
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:37,520
I'm not saying anything about what's true, but what I know is true is that the official

1366
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,120
story is a lie.

1367
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:43,320
I don't know what the truth is, but I know what they're telling me is a lie.

1368
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:50,760
Yeah, and I think at this point, it's 2023, the chances of anyone knowing what the actual

1369
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,960
truth is, is pretty slim.

1370
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:56,560
Yeah, that died in the 90s.

1371
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:58,120
That died with the people directly involved.

1372
01:09:58,120 --> 01:09:59,120
Yeah.

1373
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:01,240
Did you know any of that, Nate?

1374
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:02,240
I did not.

1375
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:03,920
I mean, I knew.

1376
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,680
You said that Beach Boy thing was going to come back, but was there anything else at

1377
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:08,680
the beach?

1378
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:09,680
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1379
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:12,640
Well, Brian Wilson later committed suicide.

1380
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:18,120
Well, I thought they got freaked out by Manson and cut ties with him.

1381
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:19,400
That was the story.

1382
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,240
That's where Terry Melcher comes in, because these guys met with him several times after

1383
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:24,920
the fucking murders.

1384
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:29,240
They weren't freaked out about him until after he got charged.

1385
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:35,400
That's where Terry Melcher was tied with Brian Wilson, and Brian Wilson and Terry Melcher

1386
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:40,800
were doing lots of drugs, all tied in with the Manson family.

1387
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:45,000
These guys met with them several times after the murders.

1388
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:49,200
Only after the murders did they push themselves away.

1389
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:53,840
Then later, Brian Wilson committed suicide because he did too many drugs.

1390
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:55,680
These guys were involved with a lot of crazy shit.

1391
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:56,680
I'm not going to lie.

1392
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:01,320
They might not even have known all the crazy stuff they were involved with.

1393
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:02,320
Probably not.

1394
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:03,320
I mean, maybe not.

1395
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:04,320
I don't know.

1396
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,900
It's tough to say.

1397
01:11:06,900 --> 01:11:08,680
It's impossible to say at this point.

1398
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:12,640
Yeah, but on one hand though too, and I'm not trying to drag people's names to the mud

1399
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:20,720
and things like that, but the people that have gone to F-Scene Island and say, well,

1400
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:22,600
I didn't know what was going on.

1401
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,280
There's no way, dude.

1402
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:26,280
You know what I mean?

1403
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:28,680
The Manson girls.

1404
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:34,160
Brian Wilson and Terry Melcher were fucking the Manson girls.

1405
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:38,180
A lot of them were underage, runaway type people.

1406
01:11:38,180 --> 01:11:42,440
One of the defenses that Terry Melcher and Brian Wilson used were that their friends

1407
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:46,880
at the time were these Hollywood hotties.

1408
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,420
The Manson girls were perfectly good looking young women.

1409
01:11:50,420 --> 01:11:57,080
If you look at pictures of them, I mean, you're a man and I'm a man.

1410
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:02,200
There's only a certain level of attractiveness where it passes a certain threshold.

1411
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:04,960
It doesn't matter after that.

1412
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:09,400
If you're a powerful man, I'm not a powerful man, but if I was in their position and I

1413
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,840
could fuck them all, I would.

1414
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:12,840
I get it.

1415
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:14,840
I get what their mindset would be.

1416
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:15,840
You know what I mean?

1417
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:20,520
I'm going to get the mindset, but the way that kind of comes to the underage thing.

1418
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,680
Don't lie to yourself.

1419
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:27,120
This is 1969.

1420
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:31,680
The level of attractiveness doesn't hide the age.

1421
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:38,840
Nate, when you're at an orgy, again, the accusation was they were having orgies and Manson would

1422
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:41,440
bring girls to the orgy.

1423
01:12:41,440 --> 01:12:46,080
I'm not an orgy goer, but if you're in an orgy and there's a guy that brings a lot of

1424
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:52,040
young attractive women, he's probably going to be on your okay list.

1425
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:57,240
Most people at the orgy aren't bringing 10 to 15 attractive young girls.

1426
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:02,280
Most people at the orgy, and I'm not trying to say that anything's okay.

1427
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:06,120
Most people at the orgy are not checking IDs if you're already in the orgy.

1428
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:07,120
They're definitely not.

1429
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:08,120
Yeah.

1430
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:09,120
Yeah.

1431
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,560
I mean, I've never been to an orgy.

1432
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,960
I don't know.

1433
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:21,680
Well, they're on LSD mind control by Charles Manson, who potentially was a product of CIA

1434
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:27,040
training by people who produced the same result in Rats.

1435
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:28,040
Yeah.

1436
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:29,040
Recorded.

1437
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:32,640
Oh, also, this is all verified fact.

1438
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:34,520
These guys all worked for the CIA.

1439
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:37,400
This is all factually true.

1440
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,280
They denied it for years, but it's been proven.

1441
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:41,280
Right?

1442
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:42,280
They did.

1443
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:43,280
Yeah.

1444
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:44,280
For sure.

1445
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:45,680
No doubt.

1446
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:51,100
That's why I didn't include that, but they argued against their involvement, but later

1447
01:13:51,100 --> 01:13:56,560
it's like, yeah, it was proven they were on the CIA payroll.

1448
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:57,560
Yeah.

1449
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:58,560
Very interesting.

1450
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:04,040
Like I say, the official story is one thing.

1451
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:09,600
These layers and layers and layers of shit, I don't think that it was an outright conspiracy

1452
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:11,200
to try to create Charles Manson.

1453
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:17,880
I think that there's a lot of crazy stuff going on that ended up with Charles Manson.

1454
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:19,840
Not necessarily by mistake.

1455
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:24,400
Kind of on purpose, but they covered it up afterwards.

1456
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:26,440
You know what I mean?

1457
01:14:26,440 --> 01:14:27,440
Yeah.

1458
01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:34,840
He's been in the system since 15, and it's not like somebody, whenever he first got introduced

1459
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:41,120
to the CIA and the LSD, the CIA, let's just say it was a CIA plot.

1460
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:46,040
It's not like the CIA knew he was going to go be friends with Polenski and be able to

1461
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,320
kill Sharon Tate for Polenski.

1462
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:50,440
Let's just assume they're all in on it.

1463
01:14:50,440 --> 01:14:54,240
That would require an amount of foresight that nobody could possibly have.

1464
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:55,240
No.

1465
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:57,240
You know what I mean?

1466
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:04,960
I would agree that it was probably an experiment that got too big for them to contain, and

1467
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:11,280
they figured they could do a favor for Polenski or whatever, what have you.

1468
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,240
Then they let Manson take the fall.

1469
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:18,280
Not that he shouldn't have taken the fall because he's a shit anyway, but that tied

1470
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:22,440
up their experiment nicely and nobody would ask any more questions.

1471
01:15:22,440 --> 01:15:25,360
He was definitely an easy fall guy by design.

1472
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:26,360
Yeah.

1473
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:29,120
Where are you at your cigar?

1474
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:31,880
I just put it down.

1475
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:33,040
Okay.

1476
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:34,280
I'm about to put mine down.

1477
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:39,800
I've got about an inch there, and it's been good all the way throughout.

1478
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:41,960
It's starting to get a little hot now.

1479
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:49,560
I don't know if I would roach clip this one, but this one was very good.

1480
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:58,120
This was a nice, nice, nice surprise for me just because of the flavors that we did, the

1481
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:04,520
flavor series where there was only one that was phenomenal and one that was moderately

1482
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:11,000
decent, and then the rest were very, very iffy.

1483
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,800
All in all, this one is a really good stick.

1484
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:15,520
I agree.

1485
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,920
If you found this at a cigar shop, I would suggest buying it.

1486
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:19,920
Yeah.

1487
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:20,920
It's good.

1488
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:23,520
It was a decent stick all the way through.

1489
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:26,320
Not a lot of flavor change.

1490
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:28,360
No, not a lot of flavor change.

1491
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:29,360
Not a bad thing.

1492
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:30,360
No, it was solid.

1493
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:31,360
It was consistent.

1494
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:38,280
It looks great with the little Connecticut strip or band throughout, and it's robust.

1495
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:43,800
It's a pretty sexy looking cigar as far as shelf appeal.

1496
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:45,360
I would recommend it for sure.

1497
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:46,920
Yes, me as well.

1498
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:47,920
All right.

1499
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:53,680
We hope you know more about the Manson family, and join us next week for our next CAO Country

1500
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:54,680
Series.

1501
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:55,680
Be safe.

1502
01:16:55,680 --> 01:17:18,680
Have fun.