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Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Mike.

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And I'm Nate.

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What are we smoking today, Nate?

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Alright, we are smoking a Kristoff Connecticut.

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And I alluded to this last episode, but we never anticipated smoking this stick.

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I had gone down to the local tobacco store, Tobacco Grove, not a sponsor, but a wealth

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of knowledge nonetheless.

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And I was looking for a different stick for one of our upcoming guests and they were sold

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out of that stick and I told him that Mike and I were getting a little bit more into

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Connecticut on our podcast.

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And he was smoking this stick in the store and he recommended this one.

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And it's a Kristoff Connecticut Matador.

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Okay.

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Now if you look at this stick, Mike, you'll see that it's got the pig tail on the cap

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end.

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Yes, yes it does.

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And what the guy told me at the store was you simply twist that off and you should be

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good to go and you can cut it if you want afterwards.

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And I know we smoked another stick with a pig tail on it and neither of us really knew

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what to do.

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We just cut it.

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The other thing to note of this cigar, and I haven't tried twisting it, have you tried

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twisting it off?

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Oh, I did after you told me I twisted it off and there's a little hole in the end.

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Yes, there is.

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So we can keep it as is or we can cut it with our cigar cutters.

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I'm going to keep it as is.

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I will keep it as is as well.

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Now the other thing to note, if you flip it around to the business end, you'll see that

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they actually wrapped tobacco leaf over the top of the end there.

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And this gives you the flavor right away of the full stick.

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So I guess we just light it up as it is.

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So we twist it off the little pig tail.

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You don't even need a cutter for this one.

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And then you light the leaf that's been wrapped around the tobacco on the inside.

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This looks like a more expensive cigar than we are accustomed to smoking.

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It was about $14 per stick.

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Maybe 15.

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So it's a little pricier than I guess what we normally smoke, but maybe only because

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we shop discount.

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We shop discount.

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Yeah, a lot of the sticks we smoke are probably like a $10 cigar at a cigar shop.

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Yeah, so this one's a little bit more.

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This would be kind of like the Rocky Patel.

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A lot of our Rocky Patel cigars that we smoked were involved this price range.

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And they're good.

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So I'm excited.

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So we're going to light this up.

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We had a good conversation.

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I can talk about that after we light up, but I'm going to light.

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Wow.

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I feel like this one lit a heck of a lot easier than most other sticks do.

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Mine lit right up.

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I usually don't have a lot of problems.

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No, no.

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I didn't mean like problem-wise.

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I just meant like, you know, because you always want to get it even lit.

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But I feel like this one just kind of like just went and the little hole, the little

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draw hole is nice.

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The flavor is nice right off the bat.

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Yeah, it's nice.

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It's so yeah, it's mellow.

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He said this one was as far as Connecticut's go, his thing was, you know, a lot of people

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think Connecticut's are bland.

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But I said, well, that's not really what Mike and I have been finding out.

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I mean, certainly there's bland ones.

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And I told him we even smoked one of the Bin Maduros you have over here.

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But that was more bland than any Connecticut we've ever smoked.

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But I was like, but what do you expect from a Bin Maduro?

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But he called this a medium Connecticut, you know, like more medium bodied Connecticut.

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It's got good flavor right off the bat.

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I'll tell you that.

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It does.

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It does.

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Yeah.

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This is a really good draw on this one for me.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's surprisingly good.

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Yeah.

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I wouldn't throw a fistful into my traveling Maduro and take him fishing.

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But yeah.

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That's the five Vegas and my perennial favorite Kentucky shrew is for.

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Yeah.

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But the only reason you wouldn't throw a fistful into a travel him to go fishing is probably

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the price point.

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Yeah, that's, that's right.

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I'm not going to like a hook a big fish and throw this out into the water.

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Very true.

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Yeah, which I had done before.

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I believe it.

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So we know it was a good conversation and he was asking about our, he was asking after

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our podcast.

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And so he went and I saw him add it to his little podcast thing as I was checking out

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and paying.

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So we might have a flavor by the way.

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It does.

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It does.

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So we might have a 10th listener.

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Well, there we go.

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We'll see.

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And you probably listened to this episode as the first one.

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Maybe so Christophe.

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I know I've smoked to Christophe before.

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Okay.

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I think I might have got one for Christmas this year, but I haven't smoked it yet.

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Okay.

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And you know, I don't know all of the brands that are out there.

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So I didn't even know this was really a brand until he said, and I've kind of got, and I

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shouldn't because I am a cohost on a cigar podcast, but I don't really know all the cigar

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brands out there.

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So you know, people are like, oh yeah.

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And he was like, oh, and this one and that one, he's like routing all these off.

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But he's like, but I'm smoking this one and it's great.

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I'm like, well, I'm going to grab two of these then.

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Yep.

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So I'm glad that we're able to get them and smoke them on the show pretty quickly actually.

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And they're long.

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This is going to be a long one.

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Yeah.

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They're long, but they're tasty so far.

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We said we were going to talk about what happened to me at Christmas for this episode.

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Christmas time, sweet Christmas time.

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And our last episode, we talked about Mike's favorite person in the world, Marjorie Taylor

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Green and how she doesn't want people with differing opinions from her.

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And Mike and I are of the belief that having people with different opinions is a good thing,

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I guess within reason, right?

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If they're combative, then probably not.

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But if they're open-minded and willing to talk and chat and all this stuff, then yes,

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very much so.

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I am for the diversity opinion.

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Yes.

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And so this one will be a little more personal for me because I'm going to walk you through

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some of my beliefs and my journeys and late nights and early mornings.

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But I don't think it's anything that you haven't heard before or that you haven't been prepared

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to hear before from me on this podcast.

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So we'll just dive right in, shall we?

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Absolutely.

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Okay.

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So we have some friends.

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Strange, I know, but we do indeed have some friends.

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And that was me taking another puff of my cigar, not waiting for the sympathy laugh

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from Mike.

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Is it we, me and you, or we, you and Sarah?

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Oh, you and I don't have friends together except for Viking Dan and NASCAR or Nat or

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whatever.

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Our mutual friends are kind of like my Sarah.

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And then that's kind of where it ends.

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So I do know James vaguely because he helped us move that one time and I wasn't sure what

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was happening, but I was happy to have the help because moving sucks.

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Yes.

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So anyway, we have some friends and this one friend is, let's just say very religious,

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not combatively so, but more like Minnesota passive aggressively so.

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And we do a meal exchange with them and they've got like, so every time we do this meal exchange,

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we got to like make 10 freezer meals, right?

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And then we go and we get 10 freezer meals back that are different because there's 10

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people in the group.

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And so we went and did this and she gave us Mike clothes from her kids or whatever for

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our daughter.

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And she told, and Sarah, my Sarah went over there and ran and dropped out the food and

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came back and she's like, oh yeah.

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And so by the way, she said that there's also like a Christmas present in here for us.

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And so I'm like, oh, okay, cool.

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You know, like thinking maybe it's like brownies or you know, who knows what it could be?

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Well, we dig to the bottom of this bag and there is a book.

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And in this book, there is a letter.

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And this letter says, hey, I know that, you know, and so there's some other conversation

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stuff that happened between us and this friend about this topic that isn't relevant to the

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story.

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So I'm just kind of, I'm going to paraphrase what this letter said and then kind of get

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into what happened after because that's all anybody really cares about.

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So they were like, I know you said you don't burn books and I really want us to all like

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hang out in heaven together drinking mimosas.

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Side note, I don't think there will be mimosas in heaven.

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Just going out on a limb.

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Again, I'm an atheist, but do not think there will be mimosas in heaven.

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That oh, I'm sorry, dude.

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That was so fucking funny.

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All right.

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I got it together.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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So trying not to kill Mike.

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So anyway, the thing goes on like, hey, I think you'll like this book.

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It's written by an atheist who found God and then decided to write this book about his

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journey.

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So for some of you, you may already know what this book is, but the book is called The Case

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for Christ.

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Okay.

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And so it's written by, fuck if I can remember now, but it's written by this guy and...

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CS Lewis.

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No, not CS Lewis.

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I've read some CS Lewis and I've read Mere Christianity and the Screwtape Letters.

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I actually enjoyed both, though I'm not a Christian and don't really believe what he's

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selling, but I felt his conversational tone or his writing voice to be mostly welcoming

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and engaging.

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But this guy, I don't know, I guess it'll kill me.

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Oh, it's Strobel, Lee Strobel.

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So he was, let's put air quotes around investigative journalist, but he was a journalist, right?

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And so he wrote all these journal articles, newspapers and whatnot.

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And so the premise of the book is he's turning his investigative journalist skills upon Christianity

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because his wife came home one day and said, I'm a Christian and I'm joining this church.

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And so he had an inner moral struggle because he was an atheist and so on and so forth.

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Now, let's get into the crux of the matter or the crucifix of the matter, if you will.

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Because normally I would have said, hey, great, whatever, donated the book and moved on with

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my life, right?

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That's the normal thing.

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If you've already gone through your faith journey and came out an atheist, why would

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I read the Case for Christ?

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Are you ever truly done with your faith journey?

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And maybe that's a good question.

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But here's the reason why I did what I am about to tell you that I did, is I had just

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a couple days before, because I subscribed to a daily Stoicism email, where it's a couple

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of paragraphs and just talking about whatever, how it applies to modern day life or different

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stories of different people that kind of...

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They might not be Stoics themselves, but they kind of embody some key takeaway or thing,

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you know?

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And this isn't meant to be like, let's go huge into Stoicism and delve into different

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philosophies.

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But point of the matter is that this email I'll digest was basically one of the Stoic

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philosophers was quoted as saying, you know, like it's very important to read, but more

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important to read things from people you disagree with.

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Yes.

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So, and since that was fresh in my mind, I thought, you know what, fuck it, I'll read

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this book.

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It's not that long.

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I'll read it.

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So here's what ended up happening is I read the first two or three chapters and I sat

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there because he laid it out as he was doing a completely objective investigation into

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Christianity, right, and Christ and Jesus in particular.

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And I was just shaking my head and I'm like, this guy used to be a journalist.

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Well, no wonder he doesn't do that anymore.

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So I found out that somebody else felt the same way as I did about this book, but they're

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a New Testament scholar and also an atheist now and believe that Jesus never existed.

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And he was so pissed off about Lee Strobel's lack of, I don't know what you would call

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it, like academic.

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Academic integrity.

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Yes.

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That he wrote the case against the case for Christ and he went chapter by chapter and

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basically tore Lee Strobel to shreds.

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So Lee Strobel doesn't tell you, but what this other guy does, Robert M. Price, and

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he does a lot of like Cthulhu novels, but he also is very active in the New Testament

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circles and things.

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But what he tells you is by the time Lee Strobel got around to writing this book, he was the

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pastor of a megachurch.

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So he's not going, this is not his initial study.

246
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And if you know that and you're paying attention, you can tell because he kind of drops hints

247
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that he's recreating his initial journey.

248
00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:27,440
But what Robert Price says is that Lee Strobel was never really an atheist.

249
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He was like a lapsed Lutheran.

250
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:30,560
You know what I mean?

251
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Like he just kind of stopped.

252
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:32,560
Right.

253
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:33,560
He was a cafeteria Catholic.

254
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,560
Yeah.

255
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,940
He stopped going to church on Sundays, but he still like wanted to believe.

256
00:15:37,940 --> 00:15:42,800
And what really threw me at the very beginning of the book was Lee Strobel says, he put a

257
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:43,800
little asterisk.

258
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,560
He's like, I'm going to interview all of these scholars.

259
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,000
And then there's a little asterisk and you go down to the bottom of the page and the

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00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:56,100
asterisk goes, that the interviews have been edited for content and time.

261
00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:58,200
And it's like, oh, okay.

262
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:04,080
So that gives you basically a way to have them say whatever you would like them to say.

263
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,880
Not that I believe that any of the people he interviewed said things he didn't want

264
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:12,080
them to say, because he didn't actually interview anybody who had anything other than what he

265
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,360
wanted them to say.

266
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:14,360
Yes.

267
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:21,520
Well, it was fascinating because despite me not believing what Lee Strobel is trying to

268
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:27,360
sell, I still learned a huge amount about the Bible and religion just in general, regardless

269
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:28,980
of if you believe it or not.

270
00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:34,760
But one of the chapters, and so, you know, when you're writing a college thesis or something,

271
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:35,760
right?

272
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,960
Like you have to have the opposing, you have to acknowledge the opposing viewpoint to have

273
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,480
a strong essay, right?

274
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:42,480
Yes.

275
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,080
You know, generally speaking, you know, like.

276
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:53,960
Well, I went to school for history, so most of mine were making an argument or you take

277
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:59,480
a position on the topic and then you present evidence that's the topic.

278
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:00,480
Yeah.

279
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,080
But you would still kind of prevent like the counterpoint.

280
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,080
Yeah.

281
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:13,920
You have to sprinkle in anything that contradicts and why what you're saying is correct versus

282
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:14,920
what they're saying.

283
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:15,920
You know what I mean?

284
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:16,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

285
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:17,920
Yeah, yeah.

286
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:23,640
So he did a chapter for counterpoint and he goes, so there's this rogue group out there

287
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,120
that doesn't believe Jesus ever even existed.

288
00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:35,480
And to bring counterpoint to my argument, I am going to interview somebody from my train

289
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:40,800
of thought camp and not actually somebody from this evil organization that I just mentioned.

290
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:47,120
And then he goes on a whole chapter about how evil this organization is just because

291
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,400
they don't believe Jesus existed.

292
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,720
Right.

293
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,600
But they're still like religious scholars.

294
00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:01,200
But heaven forbid he interviews one of them to get an actual counterpoint to his argument.

295
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:07,440
He interviews one of him to just discredit this other group instead of actually interviewing

296
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:08,440
this other group.

297
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:09,440
Right.

298
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:10,720
You know what I mean?

299
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:11,960
And so, exactly.

300
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,720
And so I was like, what in the actual fuck?

301
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:20,040
And so this is just, I mean, everybody can believe what you want to believe.

302
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:25,440
And the whole time I was reading Lee Strobel's book, I thought to myself, you know what,

303
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:33,080
if I believed in Jesus Christ, and I thought I did for, I don't know, close to 18 years,

304
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:39,680
16 some years, would I need actual historical evidence that he walked on water or turned

305
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,800
water into wine or raised somebody from the dead?

306
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:50,400
Would I need actual hard hitting historical evidence to justify my faith?

307
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,360
Like, let me guess.

308
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,440
What's your guess?

309
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,440
Probably not.

310
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:57,440
Probably not.

311
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:05,580
Because if you read the actual Bible, if you doubt Jesus or God, you do not truly believe.

312
00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:10,420
That's the whole, that's the whole linchpin in religion.

313
00:19:10,420 --> 00:19:15,960
And here, Lee Strobel is trying to go through and historically prove that all of these things

314
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:16,960
happen.

315
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:24,160
And as a history major, Mike, I want to ask you, and this is one of his big arguments,

316
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:29,600
but before we get into the big argument, do you know what an apologist is?

317
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:30,600
Yes.

318
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:31,600
Okay.

319
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,760
Would you mind explaining it to our listeners?

320
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:46,400
An apologist and apologetics is somebody who, in Christianity specifically, they kind of

321
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:54,400
acknowledge the weakness of the arguments for Christianity, but they engage in a style

322
00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:03,680
of argument that tries to make excuses for those weaknesses or ignores the weaknesses

323
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:09,600
in the arguments and says they basically making, they make an ends justify the means style

324
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:10,600
argument.

325
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:11,600
Precisely.

326
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,960
And this could be anything, not just Christianity.

327
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,200
There's all sorts of apologists out there.

328
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:24,560
Any sort of apologetics, it's usually making excuses blended with an ends justify the means

329
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:25,560
style argument.

330
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:26,560
Yes.

331
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:36,560
If they try to throw up like a weak smoke screen apology or explanation for some inconsistency

332
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:47,280
in what's being seen in the Bible, they will make some kind of, and usually it's nonsense

333
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,200
about why it exists.

334
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,200
Yeah.

335
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:56,640
One of the interesting thing about the Bible is that it's so full of inconsistencies and

336
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:05,440
maybe that's why there's a vast swath of apologetics or apologists out there for this.

337
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:13,200
And just a super drastic like tone shift and kind of almost like tenant shift between the

338
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,800
Old Testament and the New Testament.

339
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:15,800
Right.

340
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:25,040
And a lot of the Old Testament is historical recordings of events and ideologies at the

341
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,040
time.

342
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,040
And fire and brimstone.

343
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,040
Right.

344
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,040
I mean, it's recording their ideology.

345
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,040
Yeah, yeah.

346
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:36,880
It's not really, it was harsh times and people had very harsh attitudes about life.

347
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:37,880
Yes.

348
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:38,880
You know?

349
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:47,400
Let me go into, I don't know if it was the biggest kind of like laugh out loud moment

350
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,760
of Lee Strobel's book.

351
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,040
I'll let you judge that, Mike.

352
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,040
And then I want to go into kind of like some of the stuff that I ended up learning through

353
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,920
this because I did actually learn quite a bit.

354
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:03,020
Not necessarily from Lee Strobel himself, other than that there are people out there

355
00:22:03,020 --> 00:22:10,040
that believe what he's typing at his computer at home, but through the counterpoint book

356
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:19,560
and just having like two experts, let's use kind of air quotes around one of the two people.

357
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,640
But you know, two people that claim to be experts in this subject matter and having

358
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,560
them kind of like having one explain why the other one is completely wrong.

359
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,760
Let me ask you a quick question.

360
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:33,760
Yes.

361
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:42,960
Did you give the book against the book to your friend?

362
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:49,040
I will save that for the end of this conversation.

363
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,920
I would love to hear the conversation that either has taken place or will take place.

364
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,200
It has already taken place.

365
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,200
There will be closure.

366
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,240
There will be.

367
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,520
Mike is our first sponsor, ladies and gentlemen.

368
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,160
We have gotten a nice Ashes sponsor.

369
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,520
No, so this story in my mind is all resolved.

370
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:11,960
It's all wrapped up.

371
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,920
We have an epic conclusion or a non-epic conclusion depending.

372
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,400
I'm not giving anything away until we get to that point.

373
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:24,280
I want to talk about the books first, some of the stuff that I learned, and then I will

374
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:34,400
end cap it or bookend it with how it has been left between our friend and us.

375
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,520
As a history major, Mike, going back to.

376
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,560
We're going to drink mimosas in heaven.

377
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,360
Yeah, I'm not sure if it was mimosas or if it was margaritas or it was one of those M

378
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,360
drinks, but regardless, like they don't have booze up there.

379
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:49,360
I'm sorry.

380
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:50,360
Unless you're Catholic.

381
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:51,360
Maybe.

382
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:52,360
I mean, that's a good question.

383
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:59,800
Maybe, I mean, like, you know, if Jesus is there, he just, you know, do some intervenous

384
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,480
stuff and you got his blood, which is wine.

385
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:03,480
Right.

386
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:04,480
There we go.

387
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,800
You know, it reminds me of one of my, not one of my favorite, like those memes, but

388
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:15,080
like it's definitely up there where it's like, you know, Jesus is addressing the 12 at the

389
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:21,680
last supper, you know, take of this cup for it is my blood and this wine.

390
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:27,680
And then he holds up the bread, you know, here's this bread and it is my body and partake

391
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:28,680
of this.

392
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:35,080
And then Jesus holds up the mayonnaise and the disciples go, no, no, no, stop, stop,

393
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,080
stop.

394
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,080
Naughty naughty.

395
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,080
I know.

396
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:46,680
So anyway, this chapter was the one that kind of like, maybe, maybe egregious is the right

397
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:52,940
word to describe it, but I don't want to taint or sully your opinion coming in because unlike

398
00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:56,160
least trouble, I would like to be objective about this.

399
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:03,080
So what he did was he said, well, he tried to go through and say like, okay, were the

400
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,720
writers of the gospel truthful and honest and did Jesus actually exist and what proof

401
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,400
do we have and did he live there and this?

402
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,720
And so he was trying to pin down whether or not the writers of the gospel were truthful

403
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,440
and honest.

404
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:23,720
And he's like, cause you know, they included some stuff that wasn't so like nice to themselves.

405
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,240
Right?

406
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,080
But he was operating under the, under the, under the assumption that Matthew, Mark, Luke

407
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:36,180
and John were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

408
00:25:36,180 --> 00:25:40,920
And they were written within 20, 30 years of Jesus's death.

409
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:41,920
Okay.

410
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,320
And that does not seem historically accurate.

411
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,520
That is 100% not historically accurate.

412
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:53,960
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were all written by anonymous authors and they were written,

413
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,120
I don't know, a hundred ish years past the events they depict.

414
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:03,440
And there's the explanation that I've heard over and over again is that it's between 80

415
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,000
and 130 ish years.

416
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,900
They're not quite sure because I know I picked a hundred because it was kind of splitting

417
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:10,900
the difference.

418
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:11,900
Yeah.

419
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:14,720
They're not sure because Christianity was like a cult.

420
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:15,720
Yeah.

421
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,000
Undergrown, illegal cult.

422
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,000
Yes.

423
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,720
And we'll get into some more of that kind of stuff here in a little bit, but you know,

424
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:31,760
there's also evidence that to all of the, the, the four main gospels that they consider

425
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:38,680
the main gospels that they kind of all kind of launched off of one, right?

426
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:44,080
And they just kind of further embellished what was in the first one.

427
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,080
Yes.

428
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,800
They are slightly different versions of the same story.

429
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:49,800
Yes.

430
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,800
And we don't have to get into all of that, all of that stuff, but so let's just, you

431
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:59,360
know, I just had to explain that because Lee Strobel is, is mounting his case under the

432
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:05,820
assumption that Matthew sat down and literally wrote Matthew and Mark sat down and literally

433
00:27:05,820 --> 00:27:08,400
wrote Mark and so on and so forth.

434
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,000
So he's trying to say, Hey, look, are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are they honest?

435
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,400
Are they good recorders of history?

436
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,560
And I'm not even going to talk about the census thing that nobody can find that called for

437
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:26,000
whatever reason, called Joseph and Mary back to their like ancestral home and not where

438
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,000
they actually lived.

439
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,520
And they had to make this huge journey for some weird bullshit reason.

440
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,720
That's been recorded by the Roman authorities, even though it was their own territory.

441
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,720
Yes, exactly.

442
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,680
And like when, when the United States does a census, I don't have to travel back to

443
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,100
my birth town, right?

444
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:48,240
Like I can just stay where I'm at because that's what makes sense for a census and census

445
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,520
polling hasn't really changed for eons.

446
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,960
So but anyway, it's counterproductive to a census to have people move around before

447
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,600
the census.

448
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,320
You want to know where they're at now, not where they, you know what you and I know this

449
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,160
apparently to the apologists, it was a different time back then.

450
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,600
And this totally made sense.

451
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,840
And I'm not, look, I'm not trying to rain on your parade if you're a Christian and if

452
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,560
you believe everything in the Bible, I'm really not trying to rain on your parade.

453
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,760
The whole point, the whole thing, it was very fascinating for me to read this book and to

454
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,080
read the counterpoint book.

455
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:28,600
And I did learn a lot about religion and passing on the stories and how that stuff happens

456
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,480
and how some of this stuff might have come about.

457
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,480
And it's very fascinating.

458
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,760
And I think if you're interested or if you're religious or if you're not religious, I would

459
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,040
suggest reading both the case for Christ and the case against the case for Christ and starting

460
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,760
with the chapter in case for Christ and then reading that chapter in the case against the

461
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:48,760
case for Christ.

462
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,760
And you can get kind of the point and counterpoint.

463
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,400
And it was very, very fun thought experiment for myself, but I've been stalling enough.

464
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:02,520
So here's what his objective investigative journalist decided to ask.

465
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:09,680
He was asking if these writers of the gospel were being honest.

466
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:16,360
And the guy he was interviewing, I don't remember who, but they were all apologists through

467
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,700
and through, said, well, yes.

468
00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:24,920
And we have archeological proof that they were honest.

469
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,680
Now that doesn't raise any eyebrows for a history major, does it Mike?

470
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,680
Okay.

471
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,080
I'm not sure if people can hear the tone of my voice.

472
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,280
I heard the eyebrow go up.

473
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:38,280
Okay.

474
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,080
I would like to see this evidence.

475
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,080
Here we go.

476
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,080
Here we go.

477
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,120
This, this, this will blow you away and it will, it will instantly convert you.

478
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,280
And then we're going to turn into a Christian podcast right after this episode.

479
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,280
Evangelical?

480
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:54,280
Lutheran?

481
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:55,280
Okay.

482
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:56,280
It doesn't matter.

483
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:57,280
Okay.

484
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:03,520
It's all the same as long as you're in with the big JC, right?

485
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,800
So anyway, he was, you know, and he's, and so Lee is trying to play the, the skeptic

486
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:15,600
card, but at this point he's already a pastor at a mega church.

487
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,040
So he's already fully committed to his bit.

488
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,040
Right.

489
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,040
And, and you know what?

490
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,680
And just because Lee Strobel is an apologist doesn't mean that every Christian is an apologist.

491
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:32,040
So there's also that just as a caveat, I don't want somebody to say that our podcast needs

492
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:38,000
to move to a different color state or something because we don't share the same values and

493
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:49,160
we can't vote for five years, but I can vote third party anywhere.

494
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,160
Yeah.

495
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,160
Anyway.

496
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:57,040
Jesus, so, so here's the archeological proof.

497
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,120
Okay.

498
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:06,040
And here's, here's what they hung their entire point of this chapter on is they said, well,

499
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,040
okay.

500
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,040
And I don't, it doesn't matter.

501
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,880
Pick, pick one of the gospels, right?

502
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,080
Pick one.

503
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:16,720
And they were writing about this fountain or bath or something that had, I don't know,

504
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,320
12 or 13 columns.

505
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:23,040
And like they described this, this like structure in pretty intricate detail, right?

506
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,040
Okay.

507
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,360
And nobody's, nobody's found it.

508
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,880
And, and so they're like, well, okay, you know, it doesn't exist or whatever.

509
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,480
They're just completely fabricating everything and yada yada.

510
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:39,400
Well, the archeological evidence is they dug the thing up and they found this like fountain

511
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,760
or town square or whatever it was.

512
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,840
And they had had the same amount of columns that they said in the gospel.

513
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,680
So ergo everything in the gospel is true.

514
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,840
And that was the argument that they made.

515
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:56,440
And I, and I thought to myself in that instant, I thought, well, independence day is a hundred

516
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,200
percent true then because it took place in Washington, DC.

517
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,460
And I know that's a real place.

518
00:32:01,460 --> 00:32:05,160
So that has to be a hundred percent true.

519
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,160
That is right.

520
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,160
Right.

521
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,800
Isn't that amazing?

522
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,440
I can tell you that Pontius Pilate was really the governor of Judea as well.

523
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:15,440
Yeah.

524
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,280
So, I mean, he never, he never made reference to Jesus.

525
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:19,280
I don't think.

526
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,800
Not in any official recordings.

527
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:22,800
No.

528
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:23,800
Yeah.

529
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,960
He had his whole, he had his whole wax cylinder and he was laying down sick diss tracks about

530
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:29,960
Jesus Christ.

531
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:30,960
Right.

532
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,080
And the little festival that was never mentioned in anything.

533
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,360
Yeah.

534
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:43,160
So, you know, it's like, that's your, that's your archeological evidence that everything

535
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:49,960
in the gospel is 100% true because they picked a landmark that was well known at the time.

536
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:55,480
Like how many of our fiction books, like how many like Harry Potter is true because it

537
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,240
takes place in London partly?

538
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,280
Well, Anne Race, that was, that's what came to mind to me.

539
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,160
She describes like New Orleans before the flood pretty well.

540
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Well, I picked, well, I picked Harry Potter because Christians hate Harry Potter because

541
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,320
witches and wizardry is a sin.

542
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,720
Yeah, that's true.

543
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,720
Yeah.

544
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:14,720
I forgot about that.

545
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,040
You know, but it's like, but by that argument, then Harry Potter is also true because London's

546
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,840
real and I've seen that station, that subway station, like it's literally there.

547
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:24,840
Right.

548
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:30,440
So, you know, by that logic, there's a lot of true things that we all thought were false.

549
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,960
So we have a big worldview reckoning now to take place because.

550
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,680
Black quarters even has a little plaque in the station now.

551
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:40,680
Yeah.

552
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,280
It's like commemorating the brave wizards that went before.

553
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:44,280
Yeah.

554
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,840
God forbid that it gets buried in some horrible accident and then it gets unearthed 2000 years

555
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,480
from now and they find that.

556
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,320
Man, future archeologists are going to have a hell of a time because they're going to

557
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,880
find like these bodies of these dead, like gamer cat girls.

558
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,240
Oh yes.

559
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,640
With those like butt plugged tails and be like, was this like, what was this for?

560
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,600
Was this to help them balance or no, they're just perverts.

561
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,400
Yes.

562
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,400
That's awesome.

563
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,560
By the way, I don't want to break our train of thought.

564
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,560
Yeah.

565
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,200
I am two inches into the cigar.

566
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:18,200
Yeah.

567
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,200
I still have the ash on it.

568
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,200
Nice.

569
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:22,200
Nice ash.

570
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,200
Nice ash.

571
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,200
And it's lovely.

572
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,880
Oh, it's really great.

573
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:34,280
But it reminds me of the archeologists who uncover the burial sites and it's like two

574
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,280
dudes, right?

575
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,120
And they can tell by the skeletal structure and they're like, oh yeah, they must have

576
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,120
been roommates.

577
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,120
Right.

578
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,120
They were gay lovers.

579
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,120
They were gay lovers.

580
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,520
But they always say like, oh, I think they were roommates or they were brothers or something.

581
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,560
And it's like, nah, they probably weren't though.

582
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:49,560
Yeah.

583
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,560
Who fucking knows?

584
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,680
They died at the same time.

585
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,520
That chapter really kind of like threw me for a loop and I was like, okay, I'm reading

586
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,840
some like serious hardcore fiction right now because that's not really how proving something

587
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:04,840
works.

588
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,120
Like this place existed.

589
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,840
They wrote about this place that existed.

590
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,280
Therefore, everything else they mentioned is then true.

591
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:12,280
Right.

592
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,960
And it's like, no.

593
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,760
That's not how reality works.

594
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:18,760
Yeah.

595
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:24,760
And speaking about the discrepancies in the timing of the writing of the gospels versus

596
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:33,080
the timing of the alleged crucifixion of Jesus, he did spend considerable printer ink on talking

597
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:39,760
to experts who said, wow, most conservative people say within 30 to 40 years of his death,

598
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,960
but I've got evidence that it's probably within 10.

599
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,920
And then they pull out some weird like because of the fountain thing or because of that thing.

600
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:54,160
And it's like, but they're all operating under the assumption that the people that the gospels

601
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,760
are named after actually wrote them.

602
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:57,760
Right.

603
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:04,920
And, you know, I mean, in modern times, we don't think, especially in America, we don't

604
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:10,680
think of things like a fountain being something that was built and it was intended to be there

605
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,160
for a thousand years.

606
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:22,800
But when you build a fountain out of stone and your population is static, it was intended

607
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,420
to be built basically for the duration.

608
00:36:26,420 --> 00:36:28,320
Over long people are going to live there.

609
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,760
That is supposed to operate.

610
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,680
It was intended to run for 500 years.

611
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,680
Yeah.

612
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:39,360
So if they did write it, let's say 120 years after Christ, the fountain is still there

613
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:47,400
and working probably identically in every single way to what it was like 120 years before.

614
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,220
Technology didn't change that fast.

615
00:36:49,220 --> 00:36:55,040
And even if it wasn't, it would still have been a story, right?

616
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,380
These fountains are supposed to last.

617
00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:59,080
So if the fountain is no longer there, they'd be like, oh man, you remember that sweet,

618
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,320
sick fountain that was in that town?

619
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,440
I'm like, yeah, that was badass.

620
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,560
And it'd still be like within the, you know, because you know what?

621
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,960
I don't know if a hundred years after 9-11, we're still going to be talking about the

622
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:10,960
trade towers.

623
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,440
I mean, they're ugly, you know, but it was the events that surrounded them and we'll

624
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:16,560
still be talking about it.

625
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,680
So it's still going to be a historical thing.

626
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,360
So you know, but then guess what?

627
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:27,760
A thousand years beyond 9-11, nobody's going to be talking about 9-11.

628
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,360
But if you were going to go do like a fan fiction piece or something or a fictional

629
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,120
piece set in 2001, you'd be like, oh, okay.

630
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,120
Yeah.

631
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,760
I remember like you just do it like Google search.

632
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:38,760
Okay.

633
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:39,760
Yep.

634
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,760
Yep.

635
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:41,760
There are some twin towers and they fell and you just like write that.

636
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,240
And then somebody would be like, oh man, he was totally there because he wrote about that

637
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:46,240
thing that was there.

638
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:48,840
Like I can verify those things were there.

639
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,600
But you know, it was, and it was a lot of it was word of mouth back then, right?

640
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,640
Like writing was cumbersome and time consuming and you had to have all this like super thick

641
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:02,440
paper and papyrus or what have you.

642
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:08,360
And so a lot of it was oral tradition, but people have done studies on the Bible and

643
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:13,120
they can tell because everybody has their own unique writing style.

644
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,560
And sure, nowadays you can emulate somebody else's writing style.

645
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:23,760
Like you can pretend you're writing like as Stephen King and probably get pretty close.

646
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:30,040
But unless you're an expert who specialized in like writing styles and writing voices,

647
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:35,480
you know, like somebody would be able to tell it wasn't actually Stephen King, you know,

648
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:40,320
they'd be like, well, they use too many like thes or they use too many of this and it's

649
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:41,320
very, very close.

650
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:46,400
But I'd have to say with these discrepancies, it's not Stephen King writing this book.

651
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,760
You know what I mean?

652
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:54,320
Or even if you have like an AI trying to write a Stephen King book, an expert in the written

653
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,440
language would be able to analyze and say, I don't think this was Stephen King.

654
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,000
It's very close, but I don't think it was.

655
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:09,880
And people have analyzed the gospels and tried to collect, correct, correct.

656
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,600
Ah, fuck.

657
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,040
Yeah, cooperate.

658
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,720
Both that they know that some of these people have written and it just doesn't match up.

659
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:25,120
And some of the gospel books have two distinct writing voices.

660
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,240
They know it was written by two different people.

661
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:35,160
And you know, it's just, and if you believe it doesn't matter because you could say, well,

662
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:36,800
it's all oral tradition passed down.

663
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,760
So if it was 100 years after 200 years after, it doesn't matter.

664
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,080
It's still the gospel according to God and the Holy Ghost like help them write it or,

665
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,080
you know, whatever.

666
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,840
However, you want to explain it.

667
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:54,320
Are these, well, they never, this confront the fact that the Bible is an edited work

668
00:39:54,320 --> 00:40:02,480
that was created by a council of elites on purpose to like codify the religion.

669
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,840
And it's over, it's overseen by a council.

670
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,160
And every time there's a new translation or new update, not like update, but like a new

671
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:17,200
tradition, like new footnotes or whatever, and when there's new, and they actually, they

672
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,280
voted on which there's a big, and that was part of, and they never talked about it in

673
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:27,400
the case for Christ, but in the case against the case for Christ, he was talking about

674
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:33,000
the council that actually voted on which gospels got included because, you know, there's like

675
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:40,120
the gospel of Ruth and there's other gospels out there that they elected to not include.

676
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:41,120
And other writings of-

677
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:42,120
Council of Nicaea.

678
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,120
Yes.

679
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:50,040
And then what a lot of them seem to forget is the reason that the King James version

680
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:55,760
is the most popular version is because King James was an absolute lunatic and ordered

681
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:01,940
all copies of the Bible collected and burned, and then he put out his version of the Bible.

682
00:41:01,940 --> 00:41:03,640
And that's why we have the King's James version.

683
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,680
We don't really have many other versions of the Bible, at least the Christian Bible.

684
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:09,680
Not in English.

685
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:10,680
Yes.

686
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:11,680
Yeah, exactly.

687
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,640
You know, and that was kind of the other thing is like Lee Strobel was saying like, well,

688
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,560
this word in Greek means this or that.

689
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,020
And the case against the case for Christ is like, well, I don't know what word Professor

690
00:41:23,020 --> 00:41:28,600
Strobel was reading, but I have like a doctorate in Greek studies and this is what the word

691
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:29,600
actually means.

692
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:36,040
So, you know, I mean, like, so Robert was a little sassy with his critique of Lee, but

693
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:42,240
I guess if you've been educated in the New Testament and you speak the languages and

694
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:47,320
you devoted your life to it and somebody like Lee Strobel comes along and publishes something

695
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,520
that says, well, because the fountain was there, Jesus also was there.

696
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,080
You would be a little upset too.

697
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:54,080
So.

698
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:55,080
Right.

699
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,080
Interesting.

700
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,080
So that's that.

701
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,920
I mean, there's some other things in there that we could maybe like delve into, but I

702
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,520
don't really want to get into a huge like book review because you didn't read either

703
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:04,520
of them.

704
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:10,200
But you are a history major, so I figured you'd be able to give enough input on some

705
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,280
of what Lee Strobel claims to be facts.

706
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:21,480
Well, I know that the fountain probably there's an argument style.

707
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,120
I haven't called it argument style.

708
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:28,320
There's like a line of research where they try to corroborate events in the Bible to

709
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,440
see what's true and what's not.

710
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,440
Yeah.

711
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:36,440
So there's a list and I don't know how many things are there, but scholars have come up

712
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:42,560
with a list of things written in the Bible that they believe the preponderance of the

713
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,200
evidence says are true.

714
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:52,400
It's basically things that either are corroborated with outside sources or things that happen

715
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:59,560
in the Bible that are mentioned in a context that would lead you to believe that it's true.

716
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:00,560
Right.

717
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:05,560
And almost none of them involve Jesus directly.

718
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:06,560
Yeah.

719
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:07,560
Right?

720
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,480
And that was, so that was one of the other like key takeaways because so Robert Price

721
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,320
doesn't believe Jesus ever existed, at least in the form.

722
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,580
And so they talk about, well, and even Lee Strobel is trying to draw the distinction

723
00:43:20,580 --> 00:43:27,200
between like the gospel Jesus and the historical Jesus, but he's trying to reconcile the two.

724
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:35,000
And so Robert Price basically says that through his studies, and he doesn't go into huge detail

725
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,580
because he's in this book, he's just refuting Lee Strobel.

726
00:43:39,580 --> 00:43:44,840
He's not really laying his case out for whether Jesus did or didn't exist.

727
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:52,120
But he gave enough little things where it's like the reality of it is that the early church

728
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:58,920
probably picked some wandering pastor, right, some wandering minister, some wandering, whatever,

729
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:07,380
preacher and kind of like invented or co-opted part of their life into the Jesus myth and

730
00:44:07,380 --> 00:44:10,380
use that as a basis for-

731
00:44:10,380 --> 00:44:16,240
There's a lot of similarities between Jesus and religious figures out of India and out

732
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:17,240
of China.

733
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:18,240
Yeah.

734
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:21,680
And there's a lot of similarities between the religious stories in the Bible and religious

735
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,160
stories in other religious works.

736
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,160
And especially paganism.

737
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,800
And there was actually a chapter in this book where Lee Strobel was trying to claim that

738
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,960
Christianity happened before paganism and paganism is stealing from Christianity.

739
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,840
What?

740
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,800
I shit you not, my man.

741
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,600
That is insanity.

742
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,440
How, what?

743
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,000
So what existed before Christianity then?

744
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,520
It was Christianity because it was the Old Testament.

745
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,360
Were they all atheist, pre-Christianity?

746
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:57,880
God invented everything, right?

747
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,760
He created everything and that was Christianity.

748
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:07,000
And then he sent his only son and the rest is history and everybody else is a poser and

749
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,000
a copycat.

750
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:20,440
It is my understanding that early Judaism was a small cult in the Mesopotamian world

751
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:28,640
and the very first Jews believed that Yahweh was one of the gods in the pantheon of the

752
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,640
Mesopotamian god systems.

753
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:41,880
And that is why there are so many references to the Mesopotamian gods in the Old Testament.

754
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:49,040
Because if you read it and you know what you're looking for, they mentioned the moon goddess

755
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,760
and they mentioned the god of war and they mentioned all these other Mesopotamian gods.

756
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:54,760
Yeah.

757
00:45:54,760 --> 00:46:01,640
I mean, giving detail and richness, their name dropping the other gods from the Mesopotamian

758
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:02,640
pantheon.

759
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,960
Now we don't really, who knows who these people are?

760
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,400
I don't know the name moon goddess, you know?

761
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:11,400
No, yeah.

762
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,400
But they're using it.

763
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:13,400
Yeah.

764
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:14,400
So.

765
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:22,880
You know, and it's just, it's ridiculous stuff like that where it's like, look, you can believe

766
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:29,680
what you want to believe if like me, you wanted to believe but didn't believe and then went

767
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,240
out and tried to research this on your own.

768
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:36,740
You know, early days of the internet and talking with other groups that were religious and

769
00:46:36,740 --> 00:46:42,760
had strong faiths and still not getting the answer and still getting the run around.

770
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,360
Like with some of these questions that I was asking, you know, because I'd ask like, so

771
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:51,560
like, you know, in the Old Testament, God straight up says like, I'm a jealous god.

772
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,840
Well, that implies the existence of other gods.

773
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,600
Like there might be gods out there that aren't jealous.

774
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,120
But no other god before me.

775
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,120
Right?

776
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,480
So, you know, but I would ask these questions and be like, well, no, no, he's just saying

777
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:05,480
like, you know, he's jealous.

778
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,080
I'm like, well, but he tells us not to be jealous.

779
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:09,080
So like, what's that about?

780
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,880
Like, isn't he perfect?

781
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,440
And is jealousy being imperfect?

782
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:14,640
So like, what's going on?

783
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,040
Well, they don't like those questions.

784
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:17,040
Yeah.

785
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,360
Why can't the god of the universe forgive?

786
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,240
Why was he so angry in half of the book?

787
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:26,760
And then he was like, super chill.

788
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,360
I mean, not, I mean, he still wasn't super chill.

789
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:30,360
Don't get me wrong.

790
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,480
But why did he mellow out in the second half of the book?

791
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:42,600
Yeah, weirdly, the story happened in a massive empire where there was order.

792
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:49,280
And the first half of the book happened in like a fucking war zone.

793
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:56,960
So I mean, that's the explanation, but why would God need to change or why would God's

794
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,880
attitude change just because of the conditions on the ground temporarily?

795
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:01,880
Yeah.

796
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:06,520
Or like he made people, but then he decided to wipe them all out except for one dude in

797
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:07,520
this boat.

798
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:08,520
Right.

799
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:09,760
Yeah, this one dude's family.

800
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:10,760
Come on, man.

801
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,720
It's a little weird.

802
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:13,720
Yeah.

803
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:19,680
It doesn't make any evolutionary sense because then we'd all be deformed.

804
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:20,680
Right?

805
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,800
Like you can't from two people, like even from Adam and Eve, from two people, you just

806
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:25,800
can't.

807
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:26,800
Like, I'm sorry.

808
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:31,320
There's a lot of weird questions.

809
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,440
Where are the daughters of Adam and Eve?

810
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:40,760
How did one of the children of Adam and Eve get banished and then had children?

811
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,600
Where did this woman, that is, where, how?

812
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:44,600
How did that work?

813
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:45,600
Yeah.

814
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,440
How can a banished son have children when there's one?

815
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,960
I mean, maybe he was a they.

816
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:52,960
I don't know.

817
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:53,960
I don't know.

818
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:59,480
But anyway, I mean, so there's all these questions, right?

819
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:09,600
And the other thing is the line that kind of gets quoted the most where people are like,

820
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:15,640
well, was Jesus really the son of God because why would he why would he shout into the sky?

821
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,520
Why have you forsaken me?

822
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,120
If he knew he was going to get crucified, which he alleged multiple times before he

823
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:28,240
was actually crucified, like why would he scream into the sky like, Father, why have

824
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:30,680
you forsaken me?

825
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,980
If he knew and believed in all of that.

826
00:49:34,980 --> 00:49:38,240
But I think that only happens in one of the Gospels, one of the four Gospels.

827
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:40,680
It's not in every Gospel.

828
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:48,160
And there's a huge amount of discrepancy between when he who he reveals himself to after coming

829
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,600
back from the dead, you know, and one of them, it's just the women and one of them, there's

830
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,880
no guards there and one of them, there are guards there and one of them, it's the disciples,

831
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:57,880
you know.

832
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:03,640
So, it's just kind of like all that to say and I'm not trying to tear down Christianity.

833
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:09,600
All of this is to say for Lee Strobel to try and write a book, trying to come in as an

834
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:17,280
atheist investigative journalist, he sure asked some pretty softball pitch questions to all

835
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,480
of these people.

836
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:25,960
And I don't think he fully understood the scope of the discrepancies within the Bible,

837
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:31,280
which most Christians will tell you if they've read the Bible and if they're open-minded

838
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,000
and you say and they're like, hey, why are you atheist?

839
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,080
I'm like, well, okay, I mean, there's this, that and the other thing.

840
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,080
I'm like, yep, I struggle with those parts too and here's how I kind of rationalize this

841
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:45,880
to myself but I understand if you can't because it's a huge leap, it's a leap of faith, you

842
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:46,880
know.

843
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:51,840
And that's kind of where I was like, I'm not sure what Lee Strobel is trying to do with

844
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:56,640
this book because it's certainly not going to convert people to Christianity.

845
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:02,880
And that's when I kind of came to the conclusion that the case for Christ is not for atheists

846
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:08,400
and it's not for Jews and it's not for Muslims and it's not for, you know, Buddhists.

847
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,800
It's for Christians who are struggling with their own faith and it's for Christians who

848
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:17,720
are finding themselves having difficult conversations with people in the general population who

849
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:21,360
have access to the internet and know how to do research.

850
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,000
That's who this book is aimed at.

851
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:28,840
Like this book is supposed to sharpen your tool belt as a Christian so you can combat

852
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:33,040
some of these negative things people say about our religion.

853
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:41,640
Yeah, a lot of the evangelicals, I'm not an atheist and we have discussed that before,

854
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,760
but I'm very critical of evangelical Christianity.

855
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,880
I view it as a scam largely.

856
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:56,960
And I think that this person knowing that he's a mega church pastor gives me, because

857
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:02,400
like I say, I just view a lot of mega pastors as scammers.

858
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:07,400
It's been proven that many of them in fact are scammers actively.

859
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:13,400
I'm sure that there's one or two that are not trying to actively manipulate people, but

860
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:18,520
the faith healers and this and that and the other thing is definitely a scam.

861
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,480
And I don't know all of them, but I know we talked about Tammy Faye.

862
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:31,600
And I think, you know, just to briefly recap, she was a huge scammer through her husband.

863
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:36,480
And I think once she kind of realized that, she broke away and she was the first person

864
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:41,460
to like give somebody with AIDS a hug on live TV.

865
00:52:41,460 --> 00:52:43,000
So she's done some really good work.

866
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,760
I think, right?

867
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:52,000
But that was after she kind of had the wool pulled away from her eyes and realized what

868
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,200
her husband was doing.

869
00:52:54,200 --> 00:53:00,160
And I'm not saying she wasn't an accomplice for a lot of time, but you know, who knows?

870
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,480
I think she tried to make some retributions for that.

871
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:09,520
That's the only one I really have experience with.

872
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:20,840
I watch a YouTube telltale and he is a converted Jehovah's Witness, a former Jehovah's Witness.

873
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:28,760
And his channel focuses mainly on the extreme Christian type stuff and his criticism of

874
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,000
them.

875
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,760
And it's hilarious, mostly mega church types, you know?

876
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,120
And I strongly dislike the mega church pastors.

877
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,200
No, and I strongly dislike the mega church pastors too.

878
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:47,440
And it was interesting because I wanted to check, right?

879
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:53,400
Because the whole premise of the book is an atheist investigative journalist searches to

880
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,640
find out if Jesus was real.

881
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:02,920
And you know, of course, the book says why yes, Jesus was real.

882
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,280
And the last chapter is how can you find Jesus faster kind of thing?

883
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,680
And like, where can you give your money to find Jesus?

884
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,800
And where can you worship to find Jesus?

885
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,200
And all of this mega church bullshit.

886
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:21,360
But you know, if you look at the publishing date on the inside page of the book, and I

887
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,360
had the movie edition, right?

888
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:27,240
Because they made a movie out of this book for somehow, I don't know how.

889
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:28,240
But they did.

890
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:29,920
Like, so why wouldn't they?

891
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,840
There's not a whole lot of, you know.

892
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,920
Dude, there is a huge Christian movie market.

893
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:36,920
Yeah.

894
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:37,920
It's insane.

895
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,280
Let's write one.

896
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:45,400
We'll write one together.

897
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:46,400
We totally could, dude.

898
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:51,480
Yeah, we'll call it like how the snake lost his legs or something.

899
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,480
It'll be a POV from the snake.

900
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:59,040
And so you can kind of like, you can kind of peek under Eve's like fig leaf, just enough

901
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:03,320
to get the Christians like hot and bothered, but not so hot and bothered that they boycott

902
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:04,320
the film.

903
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:08,200
Yeah, we got Hercules to come in and he can play whoever.

904
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:09,640
We'll make Eve, you know what?

905
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,280
We'll make Eve something appealing to the Christians.

906
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:12,560
We'll make her like 12.

907
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,240
And then they'll be sexually attracted to her.

908
00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:16,240
Naughty.

909
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:17,240
Oh my God.

910
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:18,240
Sorry.

911
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:22,080
I don't mean to be offending a whole bunch of Christians.

912
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,880
I just, like Lee Strobel, I guess, is fairly divisive.

913
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:30,760
So you're either like on his side or he's just a complete and utter hack.

914
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:31,760
Yes.

915
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:35,760
Oh, so anyway, if you look at the inside flap and you can see the published dates.

916
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,120
So you see like the first published date, right, of the book and then you can see like

917
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:40,400
this edition published date.

918
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:45,460
And then all you have to do to figure out where he's writing from in his headspace is

919
00:55:45,460 --> 00:55:50,760
go to his Wikipedia page because it tells you the date that he accepted the, the pastorship

920
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:56,480
at the mega church, which was well before this book was ever published, like four years

921
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:58,200
before this book was published.

922
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:09,880
And the other thing is I don't get what it is about Christians wanting to read a book

923
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:11,920
about a converted atheist.

924
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,960
Like I was an atheist, but then I found Jesus and they're like, I will pay you a million

925
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,080
dollars to read this book.

926
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,360
It's like some kind of weird fan fiction for them.

927
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:21,360
It is a fetish.

928
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:22,360
Yeah.

929
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:29,680
It's kind of like the, it's like the, oh, what's the same Dave Rubin effect, right?

930
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:35,880
Like I'm, I was a homosexual liberal and now I'm a homosexual conservative.

931
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:36,880
Yeah.

932
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:37,880
Yeah.

933
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,880
It's like a weird.

934
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:44,760
It's a very weird, it's not healthy.

935
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:45,760
It's interesting.

936
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:47,440
It is a thing though, for sure.

937
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:48,440
Oh yeah.

938
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:53,280
It's like a gay conversion that it goes on.

939
00:56:53,280 --> 00:57:01,600
I watched a video from some damn comp, a bunch of people who were clearly homosexuals who

940
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:03,400
were saying they weren't anymore.

941
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:04,400
Yeah.

942
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,680
It's like, ah, you're still a homosexual.

943
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:14,680
I don't know how to tell you this, but I can see that you're a homosexual and hear that

944
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:15,680
you're a homosexual.

945
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,600
I don't know whatever you need to say, but.

946
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:19,600
Yeah.

947
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:23,280
You did not get rid of your homosexual thoughts, my friend.

948
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:24,280
Yeah.

949
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:29,520
You may have consciously forced them out or you're like consciously not acting on them

950
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,720
anymore, but I mean, they're still there.

951
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:32,720
Oh yes.

952
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:33,720
Oh yes.

953
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:34,720
Very interesting.

954
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:41,720
So like, you know, some things you can change in life and about yourself and some things

955
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,640
you can't, you know, and some things you shouldn't, you know, but.

956
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:46,640
Yeah.

957
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,320
Some things about yourself you just have to learn to live with.

958
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:51,320
Yeah.

959
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:52,320
You know what?

960
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:53,320
We'll just leave that there.

961
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:54,320
Right.

962
00:57:54,320 --> 00:58:00,280
So anyway, it was a very interesting thought experiment and oh, so they were saying that

963
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:05,840
the early writers kind of maybe based the Jesus character, you know, and they knew they

964
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,560
were creating a fictional character.

965
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:13,200
But to them, it wasn't so much a deception, right?

966
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,760
They needed somebody to embody their tenants.

967
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:22,480
And it was kind of like understood, I guess in that era where it was kind of, you know,

968
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,040
it's like the myths, right?

969
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:28,440
Like Hercules or Sisyphus rolling the boulder up the hill or.

970
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:38,800
Well, when you read Herodotus or Livy, you have to take the stories with a grain of salt.

971
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:43,880
A lot of the history that was written was supposed to be allegorical.

972
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:44,880
Yes.

973
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:46,880
It wasn't supposed to be.

974
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:52,080
And that was exactly the point of the case against the case for Christ was the writings,

975
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:59,760
the gospel writings clearly match that allegorical hero style of other allegorical hero style

976
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,700
writings of the time.

977
00:59:01,700 --> 00:59:06,640
And so for anybody to actually sit there and think that it was 100% true, like even at

978
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,560
the time, that probably didn't happen, you know.

979
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,880
They knew it wasn't literally true.

980
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,160
It's Herodotus.

981
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:21,520
It's really fascinating that we're finding more archaeological evidence for Herodotus

982
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:28,120
because for a long time, a lot of his history, which is kind of discounted as mythological.

983
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:34,900
And we're finding evidence of the Amazons and we're finding evidence of not Atlantis

984
00:59:34,900 --> 00:59:42,160
in a literal sense, but there's some pretty advanced technology in Egypt that he might

985
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,160
have been taught.

986
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:44,160
You know what I mean?

987
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:48,600
It's not like literal fancy, our idea of Atlantis type stuff.

988
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:49,600
Yeah.

989
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:55,560
Well, it was interesting because Sarah and I went to the Egypt sunken city exhibit that

990
00:59:55,560 --> 01:00:01,320
was here at the, I think it was at MIA, the Minneapolis Institute of Art.

991
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:06,760
And they brought in all these things and they had a full boat that they uncovered from the

992
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:12,880
sea outside of Egypt and it was this lost port city.

993
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:18,440
But the reason why it was so contested was because it went by two different names.

994
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:24,460
And so everybody thought it was two different cities, but it turns out if you were Greek,

995
01:00:24,460 --> 01:00:28,580
you called it one name and if you're Egyptian or whatever, you call it the other name.

996
01:00:28,580 --> 01:00:32,480
And they uncovered it and they uncovered all these things and it was all in the sea and

997
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,360
it was very fascinating.

998
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:39,640
And they found like this tablet that had four different languages on it or something, almost

999
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,200
like a Rosetta Stone kind of thing.

1000
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,840
And there was like plaques and stuff.

1001
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,220
So they had all these, they're like, yep.

1002
01:00:47,220 --> 01:00:50,880
So it was a city of religious freedom.

1003
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,880
And so they had statues of the Greek gods and the Roman gods and the Egyptian gods and

1004
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:56,580
they all coexisted.

1005
01:00:56,580 --> 01:01:00,520
And then they said the Christians came down and threw all of their religious statues into

1006
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:06,080
the sea and put up their own so they wouldn't allow any opposing religious views.

1007
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,880
So I guess even back then they were kind of addicts to other religions.

1008
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:09,880
Right.

1009
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:10,880
Yeah.

1010
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:11,880
Iconoclasm was rampant.

1011
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:12,880
Yeah.

1012
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:13,880
Which is, I'm against it.

1013
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:14,880
Pretty easy thing to be against.

1014
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:15,880
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1015
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:16,880
You know, I don't know.

1016
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:23,880
I mean, I guess it sounds like we're really bad at this.

1017
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,880
I don't know.

1018
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:31,280
Christianity and I'm not, that's not really my intent.

1019
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,040
It's a fascinating history.

1020
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:38,000
The apologetics of whoever, a mega church pastor.

1021
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:43,600
Well, and the people that don't have open minds.

1022
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:51,400
And that's true of anybody, you know, like a football team, a political view, any, anything,

1023
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,920
you know, food you like or don't like.

1024
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:00,200
The evangelicals, the ones that are out there trying to convert, convert, convert and you

1025
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,800
have to believe in Jesus, you're going to go to hell and we're not going to have a

1026
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:03,800
most as in heaven.

1027
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:11,440
You know, those kinds of people by and large, if that's their sole purpose in life is to

1028
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:15,080
make other people feel bad because they don't believe what they believe, then that's bad.

1029
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:21,120
But that's, I don't know, it's very distinct in Christians or it can be.

1030
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:26,840
Maybe that's a bad rap Christianity has because the people that are those, those types are

1031
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,120
so vocal, you know.

1032
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:30,960
It's a very vocal minority.

1033
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,560
But I know it's not indicative of the entire Christian, Christian beliefs.

1034
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,480
So I just want, I wanted to make that clear again.

1035
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:38,480
Like it's,

1036
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:43,660
Methodists aren't going out there and like, rabble rousing largely.

1037
01:02:43,660 --> 01:02:46,600
So this is not the war on Christmas.

1038
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:50,840
This episode, I'm just, this is, this is my thought experiment.

1039
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:51,840
On this.

1040
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,240
So I think I'm halfway, maybe a little more halfway.

1041
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:56,240
Okay.

1042
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:57,240
Maybe, maybe a bit more.

1043
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:58,240
I've been, I've been talking more.

1044
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,880
So I have three inches left.

1045
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:01,880
Holy shit.

1046
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:02,880
Okay.

1047
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,040
So I'm double that, but I'll, I'll puff.

1048
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:06,840
So you must be liking it then Mike.

1049
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:08,440
Oh, it's wonderful.

1050
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:09,440
Yeah.

1051
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:10,440
Very good.

1052
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:11,440
Yeah.

1053
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:12,440
It's great.

1054
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:13,440
Yeah.

1055
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:14,440
That ear, change for me.

1056
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,960
No, but it doesn't need to cause this is solid.

1057
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,040
I really, you know what?

1058
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:21,800
I didn't know if I would like it.

1059
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,760
Uh, cause in the, in the store and he's like, Oh yeah, you just twist the pigtail off.

1060
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:26,760
There's a hole.

1061
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:27,760
I'm like, what?

1062
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:29,240
In my mind, I was like, what?

1063
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,400
I didn't say that to him.

1064
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,400
I wasn't sure about it, but I'm digging it.

1065
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:35,400
It's good.

1066
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,480
Um, and I love,

1067
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,280
Spicier too, by the way.

1068
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:41,280
Yeah.

1069
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:45,080
And I love that they, they've folded over the leaf over the end.

1070
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:46,080
Oh yeah.

1071
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:47,080
That was a really nice touch.

1072
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:48,080
It's a, like I say, it's a,

1073
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,080
It's a full bodied and spicy.

1074
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,080
I like it.

1075
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:54,080
Yeah.

1076
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:55,080
Not crazy spicy, but,

1077
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,080
Oh no, it's, it's just enough.

1078
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:58,080
Just enough.

1079
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:00,080
Um, it's not, it's not sweet.

1080
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:05,080
You know, a lot of Connecticut's I guess are sweet and he called this on a medium body

1081
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:06,080
Connecticut.

1082
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:07,080
So,

1083
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:08,080
Well, for a Connecticut,

1084
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:09,080
I mean for a Connecticut.

1085
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:10,080
Yeah.

1086
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:13,080
It's not going to go against a full bodied Maduro or something, but,

1087
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:14,080
No.

1088
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:15,080
Uh,

1089
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:19,080
So I think, you know, the medium body was not medium body Connecticut, but just medium

1090
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,080
body for cigar in general.

1091
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:23,080
Right.

1092
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:25,080
But yeah, I'm digging it.

1093
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:26,080
It's really good.

1094
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:27,080
It's good.

1095
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:28,080
It's not terribly expensive.

1096
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:33,080
And, um, I didn't even check, uh, check online to see if you can get these in bulk, but I'm

1097
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:34,080
sure you can.

1098
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:35,080
Yeah, possibly.

1099
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:36,080
I'll look for it.

1100
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,080
Um, cause I think they've got other sticks too.

1101
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:40,080
Uh, but this one,

1102
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:41,080
This one is a little bit more expensive.

1103
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:42,080
Yeah.

1104
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,080
Oh yeah.

1105
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:50,080
They make a bunch of stuff.

1106
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,080
They're a reputable company.

1107
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:54,080
So,

1108
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:55,080
Yeah.

1109
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:56,080
Very interesting.

1110
01:04:56,080 --> 01:05:05,080
So, did you, uh, give the opposing book to your friend?

1111
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:09,480
I did not.

1112
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,480
And I've got a couple of reasons of why it does.

1113
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:16,480
Uh, first off, does that surprise you?

1114
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:23,560
Uh, I don't want to say that it surprises me, but it does make me sad.

1115
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,000
It does make me sad.

1116
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:26,000
Yeah.

1117
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:31,480
And it might make you sad and it would make probably a younger me sad.

1118
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:36,080
Um, I'm trying to be a little less confrontational with people.

1119
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:37,080
Sure.

1120
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,200
Uh, in my life, just in general.

1121
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,560
Um, because it doesn't really do me any good.

1122
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:45,000
Like, you know what I mean?

1123
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:50,680
Like I could, I could sit there and say, like, here's all the reasons why Jesus never existed

1124
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:57,200
or why Lee Strobel is a mega church whore and on and on, but it's not really going to

1125
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:58,200
do anything for me.

1126
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,200
It's not going to change my life any.

1127
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:06,080
Um, you know, and two, it's like, you know, do I want to, do I want to start like a war

1128
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,200
with a, with a friend, you know?

1129
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:12,160
But I didn't, but I didn't hold back either.

1130
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:18,920
Really I wrote, I wrote a response letter and mailed it to them.

1131
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:24,280
It was, it was interesting because I had some friends read, uh, the original letter and

1132
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:26,240
my response letter.

1133
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:34,880
And uh, I got some positive feedback, you know, in the letter, uh, they said something

1134
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,160
like, you know, they said like drinking ramosas in heaven.

1135
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:47,000
And then they blamed my atheism on my dad's divorce because I had told them that after

1136
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:52,160
the divorce, my dad found Jesus again and was trying to talk to me about Jesus.

1137
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:56,040
And he, and he, and he said, if you don't want to hear about any of this, you can tell

1138
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:57,040
me to stop at any time.

1139
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:58,740
And I said, stop right now.

1140
01:06:58,740 --> 01:07:04,000
And so they felt that, um, because my dad didn't handle trying to introduce me to Jesus

1141
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,840
very well, that that's the whole reason.

1142
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:11,960
And so basically I just said, look, you know, I grew up Lutheran and I never really believed

1143
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:16,240
it and I saw the people in church believing it and I just didn't.

1144
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:23,160
And so when I went to college, I joined voluntarily a Bible study and I was doing a, a kind of

1145
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:29,440
a mini like book club with a friend who was the daughter of a pastor and very Christian.

1146
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:34,780
And we read all like the screw tape letters, uh, mere Christianity.

1147
01:07:34,780 --> 01:07:41,520
We read, um, how there's one other one about a Christian, uh, singer who died in a plane

1148
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:45,480
crash and his wife wrote this biography of him and that was very fascinating.

1149
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:50,520
And so I was like, I was actively trying to do research and like figure out how I could

1150
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:52,360
make this make sense for my life.

1151
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:59,280
And it was, it was, uh, the church of the gods, um, von Daniken and he's a, he's a

1152
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:03,600
known criminal and a fraud and a hack.

1153
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,240
But he is a Catholic or was a Catholic and a devout Catholic.

1154
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:11,760
And he believed that by writing his book saying that all the miracles in the Bible were aliens,

1155
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,660
uh, that he was still a devout Catholic.

1156
01:08:14,660 --> 01:08:17,880
And I didn't really believe that everything that happened in the Bible was aliens, but

1157
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:21,880
I believed it more than I believed it being some kind of omnipotent invisible person in

1158
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:23,120
the sky.

1159
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:28,640
And that was kind of what triggered or set, you know, like set me like, Oh, if I can believe

1160
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:36,200
like aliens more than I can believe in a visible person in the sky, maybe I'm not religious,

1161
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,640
you know, like that's kind of what, what the catalyst.

1162
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:40,640
Yeah.

1163
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:42,640
That's interesting.

1164
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:47,680
Well, you've, you've said, you've told me that before and I, it's an interesting way

1165
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:52,560
to break away from Christianity for sure.

1166
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:53,560
Unexpected.

1167
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:57,280
Everybody's, everybody who quote unquote loses.

1168
01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:01,000
And typically it involves doing personal research.

1169
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,000
Yeah.

1170
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:03,000
So, yeah.

1171
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:12,240
And I was actually trying to prove, prove my faith, um, which ended up having the opposite

1172
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:17,760
effect, but it kind of led me to believe that I never had that faith and it just took that

1173
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:19,240
long to realize it.

1174
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:23,800
You know, like, I don't, I don't feel like I changed any other than like acknowledging

1175
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,000
what I was not acknowledging, I guess.

1176
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:28,000
Yeah.

1177
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:34,160
I, you know, I lost faith way before I left high school.

1178
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:40,240
I was an atheist, I think when I went into college, going in and it was, uh, I went to

1179
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:46,120
church camp for like seven years and I went to catechism and all that was the process

1180
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:53,040
of learning about the history of the Catholic church and Christianity that led me to believe

1181
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:57,480
that it was just a scam.

1182
01:09:57,480 --> 01:09:58,920
Yeah.

1183
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:03,960
Wealthy people to control poor people.

1184
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:10,800
And I didn't really become a Unitarian until I got older and I continued to do research

1185
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:19,000
about other religions, religions other than Christianity, personal psychedelic experiences

1186
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:22,000
and other things of that nature.

1187
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:23,000
Yeah.

1188
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:24,000
Allegedly.

1189
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:32,440
And, uh, and, uh, yeah, you know, which is something that is, you can't make a book about,

1190
01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:33,440
right?

1191
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:38,160
Like that's just, uh, what I have experienced thus far.

1192
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,880
There's definitely some magic out there.

1193
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:42,520
Yeah.

1194
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:43,520
Magic in my own mind.

1195
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,840
Not, not necessarily.

1196
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:47,880
It's not even necessarily real.

1197
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:49,560
It's real enough for me, I guess.

1198
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:50,560
Yeah.

1199
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:55,960
And, you know, there are so many unexplained things out there still to this day.

1200
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:56,960
Sure.

1201
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,040
And, and, uh, I don't know who's right.

1202
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:01,720
Is it, uh, mysticism?

1203
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:05,220
Is it, uh, quantum physics?

1204
01:11:05,220 --> 01:11:06,220
Is it science?

1205
01:11:06,220 --> 01:11:13,920
Is it, you know, it could be, it could be anything, you know, and I've got my thoughts

1206
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:18,200
on what will explain it and other people have their thoughts.

1207
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,800
But the fact of the matter is there's no proof yet.

1208
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:22,800
So right.

1209
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:23,800
Yeah.

1210
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:29,920
I know what, I know I've told you this before, but if you go far enough into the woods alone,

1211
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,600
you know, you will meet the fairies out there.

1212
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:33,600
Yep.

1213
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:34,600
Yeah.

1214
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:37,200
We talked about that in our, uh, hunting episode.

1215
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:38,200
Yeah.

1216
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:39,200
Yeah.

1217
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:40,200
It's like, it is true.

1218
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:44,200
I mean, it's not like literally you're talking to fairies or anything weird like that, but

1219
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:51,720
you start to see like the magic of being alone in the forest our ancestors wrote about.

1220
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:57,800
Obviously that grew in defensible tales with time, but there's definitely some interesting

1221
01:11:57,800 --> 01:11:58,800
things out there.

1222
01:11:58,800 --> 01:11:59,800
Oh yeah.

1223
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:00,800
So yeah, unique.

1224
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:07,200
I, I, yeah, it all depends on how aggressive you, I didn't expect you to have written a

1225
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:10,200
letter to your friend about it.

1226
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:16,840
Well, they wrote me a letter with the book and, um, so, and I read it on ebook and it

1227
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:21,640
was a little bit more money than I wanted to spend to get a copy of it to send to them,

1228
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,600
only to have them not read it.

1229
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:25,560
You know what I mean?

1230
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:33,240
Like I guess they expected me to read what they gave me and it was just, and it was just

1231
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:37,620
cause I got that one email that said you should read the opposing viewpoint.

1232
01:12:37,620 --> 01:12:38,840
That's the only reason I read it.

1233
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:41,060
Cause I wouldn't have.

1234
01:12:41,060 --> 01:12:45,080
So it was a very slim margin that I even read it or chose to read it.

1235
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:49,920
And I just knew I could just tell, and maybe I'm not, maybe I'm doing them a disservice,

1236
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,400
but I could just kind of tell that they were not going to read something, the case against

1237
01:12:53,400 --> 01:13:00,280
the case for Christ because I know that they, and honestly, I don't know if they've read

1238
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:01,920
the case for Christ.

1239
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:06,800
I think they just heard it was an atheist who found God and sent it to me.

1240
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:10,080
I don't think that they, I don't think that they actually read it.

1241
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:11,080
Possibly.

1242
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:19,040
Well, like I say, it was a good opportunity and still possibly is to be like, not only

1243
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:23,160
did I read it, I was so interested in reading it.

1244
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:26,440
I read the book that was written in opposition to this book.

1245
01:13:26,440 --> 01:13:28,080
Oh no, I mentioned that in my letter.

1246
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,440
I wouldn't, I mean, it was probably like two page letter.

1247
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:36,920
I mean, I didn't go into like huge detail, but I did mention that I read one chapter

1248
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:41,240
in the case of Christ and then the opposing chapter in the case against the case of Christ.

1249
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:47,120
And then I did tell, I was a little snarky and I said my favorite part in the case of

1250
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:53,000
Christ is when he said that the fountain thing existed, so therefore everything was true.

1251
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:56,920
And I don't remember if I referenced like Independence Day or Harry Potter or something,

1252
01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:01,600
but I made a little like cheeky comment about that where it was like, this is not really

1253
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,600
historical fact.

1254
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,600
Right.

1255
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:08,400
So this is a total-

1256
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,320
But I tried to be diplomatic about it.

1257
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:11,320
You know what I mean?

1258
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:13,640
Like just kind of like diplomatic but firm.

1259
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:17,800
Like I read it, it was important to me to read this.

1260
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:21,080
We're still friends and I value our friendship.

1261
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:24,920
I'm still not a Christian.

1262
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:31,800
I looked up online this cigar and you can get it online and it's about 9.50 a stick

1263
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,760
for the Churchill, which is what we smoked.

1264
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:34,760
Okay.

1265
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:36,040
What we're smoking.

1266
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:42,240
And that's right in line with the Rocky Patel vintage series that we had.

1267
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:43,240
Okay.

1268
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:44,240
Yeah.

1269
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:45,240
Yeah.

1270
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:50,960
And some of the bigger edges, you know, which are, this is every bit as good as a Rocky

1271
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:51,960
Patel.

1272
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:52,960
Yeah.

1273
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:53,960
Yeah.

1274
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:54,960
Oh, that's very good.

1275
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:55,960
Oh yeah.

1276
01:14:55,960 --> 01:15:00,800
I did want to mention one other thing that I added and I added some Bible scriptures

1277
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:02,960
in my letter as well.

1278
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,960
Not in like, not to be in like a condescending way, but I know that that's kind of what they

1279
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:08,960
trade in.

1280
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:09,960
Yeah.

1281
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:15,160
You know, I wanted to reference because if they value our friendship so much that they

1282
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:20,080
want to smuggle booze into heaven, then I wanted to like reference something about that.

1283
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:27,960
And so I said, it's like, you know, I don't know for sure if there is or isn't a God,

1284
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:28,960
right?

1285
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:32,040
Like, I don't know, maybe I'll be surprised.

1286
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:33,240
Who knows?

1287
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:40,200
But there's the whole thing with the unborn children or the kids who die before you can

1288
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:44,300
like talk to them or, you know, tell them about Jesus and do they go to hell because

1289
01:15:44,300 --> 01:15:45,300
they never knew Jesus.

1290
01:15:45,300 --> 01:15:51,800
And you can get into the whole like, you know, a lot of like Lutherans and stuff baptize

1291
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:55,600
babies right away when they're born because if you're baptized, then you can get to heaven.

1292
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:59,120
But Baptists wait until they're adults and they choose baptism because you have to choose

1293
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:05,040
Jesus and like you can get into that whole thing, but you know, the prevailing like Christian

1294
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:09,600
thing is people who haven't had the opportunity to hear about Jesus still have the opportunity

1295
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:12,040
to get into heaven, right?

1296
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,080
And there's a couple like, a couple of bits.

1297
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:19,000
Oh, and the scripture that I quoted, I think it was from Matthew and he was talking about

1298
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:28,160
Sodom and Gomorrah and God or Jesus was saying that they will be a lot more lenient on the

1299
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:34,080
citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah than they were on the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah that God

1300
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:39,860
basically nuked into oblivion if you believe the story.

1301
01:16:39,860 --> 01:16:44,320
And so, you know, my whole point was I'm just trying to live the best life that I can live

1302
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:46,720
and be the best person that I can be.

1303
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:51,840
And if that's not enough for your God, then that's not really on me.

1304
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:57,480
That's a, you know, it's hard to.

1305
01:16:57,480 --> 01:17:02,240
I mean, I'm not trying to sound like a dick.

1306
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:05,720
I hope that didn't come off as like dickish, but you know, you can only-

1307
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:07,520
Well, it's easy to shit on Christians in America.

1308
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:15,040
You can do as good in your life as you can, you know, and you can constantly try and improve.

1309
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:21,080
But if that's not enough for some like omnipotent being, I guess I'm sorry for that.

1310
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:30,600
Well, it's a common theme in our country, especially for the hardcore Christians to

1311
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:35,120
use their religion as an excuse for bad behavior.

1312
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:42,120
And it's very easy to point that out.

1313
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:49,520
You know, like I say, growing up Catholic, the sins of the church are unbelievable.

1314
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:59,640
Unbelievable to the point where the modern church largely exists to protect criminals

1315
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:04,000
who are members of the church and spend that way forever.

1316
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:07,880
The Borgias were that way, you know, the Medici's were that way.

1317
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:09,720
It's not like it's a new phenomenon.

1318
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:15,880
No, and it's not really a secret for those who know how to research.

1319
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:19,200
It's not a secret to the people who are members of the church.

1320
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:25,640
There's huge cynicism amongst Catholics about the Catholic church itself.

1321
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:26,640
It's very interesting.

1322
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:31,080
But of course, around here, it's all cafeteria Catholics.

1323
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:32,080
Yeah.

1324
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,520
Well, those are probably the most common.

1325
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:39,800
Oh, yeah, especially in an organization that's that large.

1326
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:46,320
Yeah, well, and maybe for any religion, you know, and it's like the pastor, if they're

1327
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:52,320
a firecracker of a pastor, they'll try and guilt you into being more evangelical.

1328
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:58,120
But I think by and large, and just like with politics, like by and large, the majority

1329
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:00,360
are just trying to live a good life.

1330
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:01,360
I hope so.

1331
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:03,560
Not politicians, because they don't give a fuck.

1332
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:09,000
But you know, like most people, like whether they're like, they consider themselves like

1333
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:15,080
a staunch Republican or a staunch Democrat, but you take some of those like ideology quizzes

1334
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:16,880
online, right?

1335
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:20,760
And most of them come back like, oh, you're a little left of middle or you're a little

1336
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:26,400
right of middle, you know, like there's a reason it's called the middle because that's

1337
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:29,280
where the majority of people are, you know.

1338
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:35,800
But they get riled up by the evangelicals, whether it's a political evangelical or a

1339
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:37,280
religious evangelical.

1340
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:38,280
Right.

1341
01:19:38,280 --> 01:19:44,040
Now, they stream cases, online videos about anything.

1342
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:47,680
They're going to take edge cases and try to get you all worked up about it.

1343
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:48,680
Yeah, it's entertainment.

1344
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:54,480
And I would consider church to be an entertainment industry largely.

1345
01:19:54,480 --> 01:19:58,000
Yeah, just like the news.

1346
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:04,400
It puts the fear mongering, you know, bleeds, it leads.

1347
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:05,400
Yeah.

1348
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:10,080
So, so I want to talk about snowmobilers.

1349
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:17,240
OK, because due to the snow.

1350
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:21,480
And this happened a while ago.

1351
01:20:21,480 --> 01:20:22,480
OK.

1352
01:20:22,480 --> 01:20:28,200
Snowmobiles always fuck with property.

1353
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:29,680
Have you ever seen Mad Max?

1354
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:34,160
Have you ever seen the Road Warrior?

1355
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:35,160
Yes.

1356
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:36,280
OK.

1357
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:46,320
The way I look at snowmobilers is the gang in the Road Warrior, you know, just riding

1358
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:54,320
around in their snowmobiles, vandalizing, stealing stuff, doing drugs and having homosexual

1359
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,280
sex out in the woods.

1360
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,320
That's kind of their MO.

1361
01:20:58,320 --> 01:20:59,320
Yeah.

1362
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:01,680
Everything that I see.

1363
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,240
One of the main reasons I never got into snowmobiling.

1364
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:13,160
Well, I'm not into most of that.

1365
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:19,120
The sex of the gangs for sure, but the vandalizing is where I draw the line.

1366
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:20,120
Exactly.

1367
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:21,120
Exactly.

1368
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:25,320
But I went over to my parents place and this fucking snowmobiler has been through their

1369
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:28,800
yard, you know, here they go through.

1370
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:35,760
But a couple of weeks ago, some snowmobiler jumped my road approach and hit my wooden

1371
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:36,760
fence.

1372
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:37,760
OK.

1373
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,160
And it's fucking dented.

1374
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:46,400
The one you haven't taken down the Christmas wreaths from for like five years.

1375
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:50,600
Well, they probably did you a favor, buddy.

1376
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:51,600
Yeah.

1377
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:56,960
They dented that cedar post and it's tipped now.

1378
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:59,480
They had to have damaged their sled.

1379
01:21:59,480 --> 01:22:00,480
Oh, undoubtedly.

1380
01:22:00,480 --> 01:22:01,480
Yeah.

1381
01:22:01,480 --> 01:22:02,480
Oh my God.

1382
01:22:02,480 --> 01:22:03,480
I can't believe it.

1383
01:22:03,480 --> 01:22:07,720
But yeah, they jumped my road approach and hit my fucking fence.

1384
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:10,400
I was like, God damn it.

1385
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:14,880
I may have to try to push it in the in the spring.

1386
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:15,880
Oh, yeah.

1387
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:18,880
Still soft.

1388
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:22,800
Did they leave a visitor congregation pamphlet or something?

1389
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:25,360
Oh, no, no.

1390
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:27,480
This is just a random aside.

1391
01:22:27,480 --> 01:22:28,480
It's a random aside.

1392
01:22:28,480 --> 01:22:29,480
OK.

1393
01:22:29,480 --> 01:22:32,240
It makes me so mad because they knock.

1394
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:36,440
Obviously, they knocked the snow into the driveway and I have to go out there and chisel

1395
01:22:36,440 --> 01:22:38,160
it out with a shovel.

1396
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:39,160
Yeah.

1397
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:40,640
We said you were calming down, though.

1398
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:45,960
You're all riled up and you said you were calming down.

1399
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:46,960
I am calming down.

1400
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,960
I'm pretty calm about it.

1401
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:55,480
But yeah, it's just every year, every year.

1402
01:22:55,480 --> 01:22:59,520
We haven't had any like super far into the property from what I can tell.

1403
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:00,520
OK.

1404
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:05,480
They kind of stayed within, I don't know, 150 feet of the road.

1405
01:23:05,480 --> 01:23:06,480
And that's good.

1406
01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:12,880
But one year, oh, one year they went out into the woods.

1407
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:17,680
Came in and did a bunch of shitties or whatever in my yard.

1408
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:18,680
OK.

1409
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:22,720
And then went back down my driveway to the road.

1410
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:27,240
There's vandals, those guys.

1411
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:28,240
Yeah.

1412
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:31,040
You know, and what?

1413
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:39,080
There's not enough trail out there for for them to do stuff.

1414
01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:40,080
I know.

1415
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:41,720
It's crazy.

1416
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:42,720
We had a guy.

1417
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:46,440
Oh, this had to have been four years ago.

1418
01:23:46,440 --> 01:23:53,280
Hopped up on meth, drove his car into the driveway, blasted through the yard and then

1419
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:58,880
plowed through my neighbor's fence and drove through his cattle field and then out onto

1420
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:02,480
the road on the other side.

1421
01:24:02,480 --> 01:24:05,080
And it reminds me of the snowmobilers.

1422
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:10,080
He did it in a car.

1423
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:14,240
Yeah.

1424
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:20,440
So there is somebody out there that did a lot of damage to their sled on my fence.

1425
01:24:20,440 --> 01:24:23,480
And like they say, they dented that cedar log.

1426
01:24:23,480 --> 01:24:25,880
I couldn't believe the dent in it.

1427
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:27,680
Yeah, that's pretty hardcore.

1428
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:29,760
Oh, man.

1429
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:32,680
I couldn't do that with a sledgehammer.

1430
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:37,400
You'd have to hit it hard a lot of times.

1431
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:39,840
That's a hundred and twenty miles per hour.

1432
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:40,840
Mm hmm.

1433
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:41,840
So.

1434
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:44,160
Oh, I got a quick question for you.

1435
01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:48,000
Are you are you are you completely done with your cigar?

1436
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:49,760
No, I am not.

1437
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:50,760
OK.

1438
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:54,560
Is your little pigtail hole kind of expanding?

1439
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:55,560
Yes.

1440
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:56,560
OK, mine is too.

1441
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:59,760
It's getting weak on the edges, but nothing's coming out.

1442
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:01,280
Yeah, nothing's coming out.

1443
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:05,400
I just noticed it was kind of getting getting a little larger.

1444
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:07,920
Gaping might be the term.

1445
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:10,080
Oh, jeez.

1446
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:13,000
But what a explicit tag on this.

1447
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:15,560
I put explicit tags on all of our episodes.

1448
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:17,040
That's probably wise.

1449
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:23,760
Yeah, because, you know, like what I just think, like, well, what if I don't put one

1450
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:28,360
on there and then I missed us saying fuck once and then somebody gets upset about it?

1451
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:29,360
Right.

1452
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:32,280
So I'll just mark them all as explicit so that we don't really have to worry about self

1453
01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:35,000
censoring on the podcast.

1454
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:36,600
Life is explicit, you know.

1455
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:37,600
Life is explicit.

1456
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:47,320
One of my favorite punk lyrics is, you were never a virgin, you were fucked from the start.

1457
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:52,000
That's a I like that.

1458
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:53,000
Yeah.

1459
01:25:53,000 --> 01:26:03,480
It's actually on a concept album by this punk group and it's set in the Civil War.

1460
01:26:03,480 --> 01:26:08,760
And the album is called The Monitor, which was the Civil War submarine that the South

1461
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:10,160
had.

1462
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:12,120
And the band is called Titus Andronicus.

1463
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:14,840
So they are well read because that's a Shakespeare play.

1464
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:15,840
So nice.

1465
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:16,840
Heck yeah.

1466
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:17,840
Oh, that's great.

1467
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:18,840
Back on the Christians.

1468
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:19,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1469
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:29,200
I worked with a very hardcore Mormon, very conservative Mormon.

1470
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:31,360
Conservative isn't only three wives instead of four or?

1471
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:36,000
Nah, he had one wife, but he was definitely a believer.

1472
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:39,760
And one day he showed up and he was drinking an energy drink.

1473
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:40,760
And they can't do caffeine.

1474
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:41,760
Well, all right.

1475
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:42,760
I'll let you finish your story.

1476
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:43,760
Adam, you're drinking caffeine.

1477
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:44,760
I thought Mormons weren't allowed to do that.

1478
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:45,760
He's like, oh no, I'm not drinking caffeine.

1479
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:46,760
I'm not drinking caffeine.

1480
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:47,760
I'm not drinking caffeine.

1481
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:49,760
I don't want to do that.

1482
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:53,200
He's like, oh no, they just came up with a new thing and you can drink cold caffeine.

1483
01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:56,640
You just can't drink hot caffeine.

1484
01:26:56,640 --> 01:26:59,040
So I was like, what the?

1485
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:02,160
There was another guy who was also a Mormon, but he was a Jack Mormon.

1486
01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:05,600
He's like, the Mormon Church bought a share of Coca-Cola.

1487
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:11,200
Well, that's like they do the soaking.

1488
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:13,960
Did we talk about that on the show yet?

1489
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:17,680
I know what you're talking about, but I don't know if you talked about it on the show.

1490
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:22,000
I don't remember either, but we'll just bring it up.

1491
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:26,320
The Mormons will do soaking where it's not...

1492
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:36,020
So premarital sex is a sin to Mormons, but according to Mormons, sex is defined as the

1493
01:27:36,020 --> 01:27:38,380
act of thrusting.

1494
01:27:38,380 --> 01:27:47,320
So what these Mormons now do is they insert themselves and then they have buddies, I guess,

1495
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:57,280
on the bed to simulate the thrusting, but because the person or persons engaged in the

1496
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:04,680
act of insertion, I guess, are not actually they themselves thrusting, it is not considered

1497
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:06,760
sex.

1498
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:10,600
But I guess it's just as fun, but a little more awkward because your best buddies are

1499
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:11,600
there.

1500
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:16,760
Mormons just have anal sex before marriage in that way.

1501
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:17,760
It doesn't count.

1502
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:18,760
Yes.

1503
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,760
I'm not sure if that's 100% true.

1504
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:28,040
I've heard stories about it that are about individuals where that was true for them.

1505
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:29,040
Yeah.

1506
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:35,280
Well, and maybe we'll have to get a Mormon on the show and then we can find out.

1507
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:46,760
Coincidentally, my former coworker, who was a hardcore Mormon, was heavily into crypto

1508
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:52,760
and like penny stocks and stuff and he lost his ass.

1509
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:58,480
Mormons are not allowed to gamble, but they are allowed to play the stock market.

1510
01:28:58,480 --> 01:29:03,960
And the stock market is basically just gambling and he lost so much money that he freaked

1511
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:13,080
out and he shot up one of his employers when he got fired.

1512
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:15,920
I did not believe that story, but it did make a newspaper.

1513
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:21,160
I will not tell you where it happened, but it made a newspaper and I got sent the article

1514
01:29:21,160 --> 01:29:24,840
at one of our mutual associates.

1515
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:30,440
So you have more historical evidence that that was true than Lee Strelwell has about

1516
01:29:30,440 --> 01:29:33,560
that fountain proving that Jesus existed.

1517
01:29:33,560 --> 01:29:34,560
Right.

1518
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:35,560
Oh yeah.

1519
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:41,640
I saw his mugshot and I read the article.

1520
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:45,160
And that is what historical researching looks like.

1521
01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:46,160
Yes.

1522
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:47,160
Yeah.

1523
01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:48,160
Cause I was like, what?

1524
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:49,320
I don't believe this.

1525
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:50,320
So interesting.

1526
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:51,320
Yes.

1527
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:52,320
Very interesting.

1528
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:53,320
Very, very.

1529
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:55,320
What's the worst their behavior is.

1530
01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:56,320
What's that?

1531
01:29:56,320 --> 01:30:06,400
I found in life that the worse people's or the more people restrict their behavior, the

1532
01:30:06,400 --> 01:30:07,400
worse it becomes.

1533
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:08,400
Yes.

1534
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:10,720
It like bottles up and it explodes.

1535
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:11,720
Yeah.

1536
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:13,880
I have found that to be true as well.

1537
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:19,960
The more you restrain somebody from doing something, the more they want to do it.

1538
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:26,960
And it might just be out of spite, but I think, I think the, the, maybe the key takeaway is

1539
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:33,160
that like abstinence, it doesn't have to be sex, but like abstinence is not really an effective

1540
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:34,760
teaching tool.

1541
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:41,520
You know, I think teaching people to have healthy relationships with things is more

1542
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:42,520
important.

1543
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:43,800
I agree with that.

1544
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:45,480
I'm not done either, by the way.

1545
01:30:45,480 --> 01:30:50,680
I'm not done either, but I don't know that I have much more to talk about without vamping.

1546
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:53,080
And this is going to be a long episode regardless.

1547
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:54,560
So that's true.

1548
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:59,880
I have, oh, I'm an inch and a half ish right now and it's still quite good.

1549
01:30:59,880 --> 01:31:00,880
Yeah.

1550
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:05,160
Why don't we call the episode and you and I can just chat a little bit longer, but we'll

1551
01:31:05,160 --> 01:31:08,840
pick everybody else up next week.

1552
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:09,840
Sounds good.

1553
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:11,480
I highly recommend the Kristoff.

1554
01:31:11,480 --> 01:31:13,680
Yeah, it's phenomenal.

1555
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:15,120
It is wonderful.

1556
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:17,520
Thank you to Tobacco Grove.

1557
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:18,520
Yep.

1558
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:19,520
Thank you.

1559
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:21,520
Not a sponsor, but if you'd like to be, you know how to find us.

1560
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:22,520
Be safe, have fun.

1561
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:23,520
Be safe, have fun.

1562
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:47,940
That was out eager.