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Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Mike.

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And I'm Nate.

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What are we smoking, Mike?

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It is a CAO Extreme.

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An Extreme Quad is what mine says.

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Extreme Quad.

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Yeah, it's a blended cigar, it's not single origin.

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It's got wrappers and fillers from different areas.

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A three country cocktail.

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Yeah, I saw that on the wrappers.

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Is the branding.

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I've had this one before, full disclosure.

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Okay.

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Multiple times actually, because I bought a box of these.

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And I've had different experiences each time.

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So we'll find out later, I'll let you find it for you, Nate.

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Yeah, I topped off the old fuel and I've been keeping it in my pocket.

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So it's been warmer.

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It doesn't light from cold for some reason.

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But I am lit.

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Perfect.

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Initial puffs were I think a little sweeter than I was expecting.

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Or at least sweeter than the last one.

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It's sweet.

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It's not unpleasant.

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Oh no, I like it.

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Yeah, it's not a bad thing.

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Today I'm going to pair this cigar with some Lugavallen and a homebrew whiskey sour that

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has no sugar.

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Nice.

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I am drinking a Simpler Times lager from Trader Joe's, which is like $6 for a 12 pack.

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We had some friends over for a little kind of shindig and I brought it out and they were

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like, oh, and one of the guests was, oh my God, you're drinking that.

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And I'm like, yeah, because it's $6 for a 12 pack, tastes decent and is 6.2%, which

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is not your typical lager.

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$6 for a 12 pack is very reasonable.

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Why wouldn't I drink this?

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Yes, I would buy a pallet of it.

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Yeah.

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And it's from Trader Joe's.

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It's the Simpler Times.

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It is made by the same brewery that makes their Boson line.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah, that stuff's good.

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That stuff's good and that's $5 for a six pack, but this stuff is like $6 for a 12 pack.

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So it's a little more than 50 cents a beer, I guess, when you break it down fully.

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Very reasonable.

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It's kind of like some of the Kirkland alcohols that we have discussed off air.

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Yes.

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Very good value for money on a lot of that stuff.

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So today's topic is going to be my topic.

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Yes.

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It ties into the previous episode in some ways.

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We're going to talk about hunting.

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There we go.

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Which Nate has hunted before.

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He's no longer a hunter, from my understanding.

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I may return, I just haven't felt the overwhelming desire.

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I would go bird hunting, pheasant hunting, grouse hunting, probably before I would go

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deer hunting just because I don't know, I enjoy nature.

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I don't know about sitting out in nature for 12 hours a day or whatever it ends up being,

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hoping something comes by.

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But it's fun if, and we used to deer hunt in a very sparsely populated deer area.

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So that probably has some to do with it too.

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There's other places that have a much higher deer population.

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Right.

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I hunt deer with my family and I'm mostly interested in my nieces and nephews getting

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deer.

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I even, this season, past season, I let my nephew hunt out of my stand and he got a shot,

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didn't get it, but I'm not that concerned.

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I don't care if I ever shoot a deer again, they'll be honest with you.

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But I go deer hunting every year.

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I mean, I might get back into it at some point, but I have a lot of fun.

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Sure.

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For me it's mostly about the brunch that we have every day.

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Oh yeah.

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It's about sitting in the stand, because Nate knows this, but I sit in the stand and I smoke

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cigars or read books and drink coffee.

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That's what I do.

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Do you have a fully enclosed stand or something?

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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So we always hunted with a, we had a tree seat with a rope and you would put it on the tree

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and cinch the rope up and then you'd sit down and you would just be there.

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Every movement would give you a way and every sound would give you a way.

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And but my grandfather, when he would go deer hunting, he never hunted when I hunted, he

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was, you know, he had retired from hunting, but he would still come and be the camp cook,

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you know, but he used to, he would, he would shower in the morning and put on his English

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leather cologne and he would go out and sit by a campfire that he would start in the woods

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smoking a cigarette and he got some monster bucks, you know, like, so, you know, it kind

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of makes you wonder about these, you know, you got a no-scent soap and no-scent in your

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clothes and, you know, be quiet and spray yourself with Fox urine or something.

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And I don't know how much credence I give to that.

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When I was growing up, we filled out all of our tags and my grandfather would hunt all

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week and he would sit in the stand all day and he would bring out a case of beer and

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no food and a Folgers coffee can, the same one he used for his tackle and he would piss

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in the can and drink beer all day long and just throw the cans right on the ground, right

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underneath the stand and he would shoot all the deer and fill all of our tags because

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party hunting is legal where I'm at.

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And that was kind of hunting, right?

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Cause we had extra bonus tags and all this sort of stuff.

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So we'd all get one as kids, you know, but my grandfather would just fill all the other

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tags out during the week cause he was retired.

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He would just sit out there and party basically and my dad allegedly would just sit in a truck

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that was the same color as the barn and leave it running and listen to the radio smoke cigarettes

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and shoot.

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Oh, okay.

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See, if I had a fully enclosed stand where I could be reading a book and drinking coffee

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and out of the wind, you could probably get me back out hunting again.

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Right.

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Well, you're welcome here anytime.

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Perfect.

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But we're going to build a couple of new stands.

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Okay.

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So I was going to say, just going out trap shooting was fun.

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Like I like that.

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Or if we were, if we were just out with our, our deer rifles, you know, just target shooting

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or whatever, that'd be fun.

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Yeah.

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We should definitely do that cause the range, I can go up to 200 yards pretty easy.

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Okay.

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And I haven't shot my rifle in quite a while.

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Okay.

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But that'd be fun.

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So I'm a big bird hunter.

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I prefer bird hunting.

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I actively wing shoot and I used to be a big waterfall hunter as well.

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I have a collection of shotguns to do all those different things cause I'm a spoiled

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brat when it comes to my hobbies for sure.

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I did want to give you a big shout out.

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But I meant to do it last episode, but you made it one full episode without mentioning

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bowling last episode.

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So for those of you keeping track at home, that might be the first episode ever that

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might be bowling.

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So there we go.

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And we got two 300s in the family this year so far.

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Nice.

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So there we go.

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But back to hunting.

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Back to hunting.

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I wasn't really talking about our personal hunting necessarily, which I'm pro hunting.

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I think it's important.

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And I think that personally, I think that as many people who can, should go out and

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hunt and enjoy the experience.

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It's mostly for enjoying the experience of hunting and being in the outdoors and to feel

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the experience of trying to kill an animal and feeling the grief that oftentimes comes

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with killing an animal.

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Yeah, it is real.

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I don't, I mean, I don't feel bad for killing birds really.

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And it's not hunting, but there have been certain squirrels on or near our premises

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that have met their demise very recently.

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And I don't feel bad about that because they're like rodents and they destroy things and they're

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very destructive.

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And there's no natural predators here for them really.

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And I think in our modern, modern world, and the same is true with controlled burns and

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things because we suppress all of these acts of nature.

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We don't want a forest fire, but those used to happen and they need to happen for new

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growth in the forest to survive because you can't have an old growth forest that lives

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because they choke out all other life.

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So some of these things are part of how nature is intended to function.

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And our modern society doesn't like those things because those things are smelly or

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messy or dirty or potentially dangerous if not managed.

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So we're kind of managing certain things into an unnatural state as it were.

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And I think the same is true for hunting.

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I mean, we've got so many animals and you can say, well, they should just flourish and

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be happy.

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But that's not how it would be because normally they would have predators other than us.

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And there's lots of places where they don't have those predators anymore.

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But also the enjoyment of outdoors is important.

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And you can enjoy outdoors.

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And I've often thought about going back out to the deer stand, but just with my camera

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and zoom lens and trying to get some cool wildlife photos.

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So you don't necessarily have to bring a gun if you don't want to kill something.

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But just to go spend some time in nature away from your phone and the internet and other

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people, you can get a lot of good thinking done out there.

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That's one thing I do kind of miss.

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Oh yeah.

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I think an experience, I've had this experience, I think an experience we're having is getting

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lost in the woods and knowing that in this direction, if I continue to walk in this direction,

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we'll find a road.

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But at the present time you're lost.

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You have no idea where you are.

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You know the road is there, but you don't know where on the road you're going to come

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out at.

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And you don't know how far away you are.

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You just know that that direction is north.

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And you know that north of where you're at on a map, there's a road.

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So you have to reorientate yourself and then you sit and you listen and the fairies come

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out, which are basically your own, it's your brain hearing the sounds of the forest and

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interpreting it in a borderline psychedelic way because you're lost.

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You have no idea and there's no cell phone or anything.

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The old stories of fairies in the woods starts to make a lot of sense before there were cell

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phones in roads.

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And you couldn't really pick a direction and walk because if you were far enough off, even

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if your village or town was east, if you were far enough off, you would just walk forever.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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You're lost.

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It's very magical in a real sense.

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So it's a magical experience that everybody can have if they chose to do so.

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If you choose to go get lost in the woods.

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It's magical and you will thank us later for recommending you do that.

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Right.

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Why don't you bring a compass?

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You don't go out with the intent of being lost, but whenever you're out in the woods,

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and I think this is important and this is what you're trying to say is, you don't just

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go out into the woods.

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If you got into the woods, and we would always do this, even when we were hunting in areas

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that we were mostly familiar with in the state forest, but if you shot a deer and had to

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track it, you could very easily get lost.

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Oh yes.

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And so we would always, always before going out into the woods, say to one another, because

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we would hunt as a family, okay, if you lost in the woods, you head in this direction and

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you can find the road and then you can find your way back to the car from there.

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So you have to do a little bit of prep work.

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You can't just go out into the woods because you might die, but as long as you're moderately

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prepared, you should be fine.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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A lot of times I don't even take a hunting bag if I'm going out real deep.

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I do now that I'm older, but when I was younger, I didn't.

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I just went with water maybe.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We always had a little like hunting pack.

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You know, it had, you know, a gutting pack, a little gutting kit, some waterproof matches,

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a compass, a whistle, some candy bars, because you know, you get hungry out there and some

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water.

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Moderate is like prepared.

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It's all, you know.

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It's like hiking, but less organized.

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Yeah.

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Cause you're not really, you're not out there to cover distance.

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Right.

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I was more talking, now this is something that I think is important and is missing from

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our modern society.

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We have these factory farms and people go to McDonald's or whatever fast food restaurant

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of choice and you get a chicken sandwich or a burger.

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There's no connection to the death and the loss that goes into producing that food.

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And you can taste that those ingredients are missing.

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Yeah, I think you can.

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00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:51,680
Well, I mean, I said that kind of sarcastically, but you know, these mass produced things is

243
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:58,640
similar to the mass produced lumber that you buy nowadays when it doesn't even compare

244
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,680
to the lumber of like the fifties, you know, because

245
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:08,800
It doesn't even compare to the rough sawn logs or the rough sawn lumber you can buy

246
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:14,320
from a sawmill, you know, in a rural place like where I live.

247
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:20,160
There's guys, people that run sawmills still and they'll run logs through them and you

248
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:25,080
can get rough sawn lumber that is however long the tree is.

249
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,080
Yeah.

250
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,080
You know?

251
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:28,080
Yeah.

252
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,080
I mean, you lose

253
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,080
That's a different type of wood.

254
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,400
You lose some things with modernization.

255
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,960
For sure.

256
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,080
And there's certain trade-offs.

257
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,760
And I think it was important for us to kind of share a little bit about our personal hunting

258
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:51,480
experiences for the listeners to know that we both are or have been hunters.

259
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,000
And that's where we're coming from.

260
00:16:53,000 --> 00:17:00,320
But yeah, to your point, I mean, these farms, if you've ever seen almost any documentary

261
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:08,720
on modern food production, it kind of, it makes you want to disconnect from what happens

262
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:09,720
there.

263
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:10,720
Oh, for sure.

264
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:16,960
I've been on, I've hunted feedlots for birds that are pretty good.

265
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,560
The feedlots are not, they're nice.

266
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,880
I mean, as far as a feedlot goes.

267
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:21,880
Yeah.

268
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,680
The cows aren't in a foot and a half of shit.

269
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,560
They're like on grass and they clean it out with skid steers.

270
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:29,560
Yeah.

271
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:36,280
They're trying to, they're selling premium graded beef at a lot of these places, you

272
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,280
know?

273
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,280
Yeah.

274
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,240
So they try to make it nice for the cows.

275
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,720
There's farms out there that are not good for the animals at all.

276
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:46,800
Oh yeah.

277
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,240
And obviously a wild animal doesn't experience that.

278
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,680
No.

279
00:17:52,680 --> 00:18:02,960
And you know, I guess the wild animal argument maybe is that they experience different extremes.

280
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:09,760
They're typically a lot leaner because they've not been fattened up artificially.

281
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,560
And they're usually kind of fighting for their lives out in the wild.

282
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:21,200
I mean, you know, so you kind of get both camps where you're like, well, as a hunter,

283
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:26,840
if you kill a deer, they don't have to struggle to survive through the winter, which is the

284
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,320
hardest part of the year for deer.

285
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,880
But the anti-hunting groups are like, well, you know, they would just flourish in the

286
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,160
wild on their own.

287
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,040
And then you kind of have to ask these people, well, have you ever watched like a nature

288
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,240
documentary because sometimes you're cheering for the deer and sometimes you're cheering

289
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:43,240
for the wolf.

290
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:48,360
It all depends on who the documentary filmmaker wants you to root for.

291
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:49,360
You know, if the deer doesn't-

292
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:50,360
Right.

293
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:51,360
And the death of a wild is usually very violent.

294
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:52,360
Yeah.

295
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:55,320
A lot more violent than getting shot through the heart.

296
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:56,320
Yeah.

297
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:02,240
And if the deer dies, you know, they die.

298
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:08,640
And if it was a doe, maybe their fawns die and you know, there's fewer deer next year.

299
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,240
But if the wolf doesn't get to kill the deer, then the wolf pups die.

300
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,280
So you know, it's-

301
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:15,280
Right.

302
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,920
Cause and effect, I guess.

303
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:18,920
More in the wild.

304
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:19,920
Right.

305
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,160
But carry on.

306
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,760
I just wanted to toss a couple other, you know, I guess I'm playing devil's advocate

307
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,760
a few episodes now.

308
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,680
Vamping is part of it.

309
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,480
We talked last episode about the softening of society just a little bit.

310
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:40,920
And I think people not killing the food that they eat is part of the reason why we're having

311
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,100
the softening.

312
00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:49,320
Because there's a lot of these people that want to soften language when they don't have

313
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:57,560
the heart to go out and shoot a deer and gut it and clean its bones and process the meat

314
00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,560
and eat it.

315
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:00,560
Yeah.

316
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:06,800
And it's a hard thing because it's exhilarating to shoot an animal, but it's also, sometimes

317
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:12,080
you feel that inner pain or you feel bad because you just shot a deer.

318
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,400
It doesn't feel nice afterwards at all.

319
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:15,560
You feel bad.

320
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,240
And especially if they're still alive when you find them, you know, and they can't do

321
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:21,240
anything.

322
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:22,240
They can't go anywhere.

323
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,960
If you hear elite in pain, it is not good.

324
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:26,960
Nope.

325
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:27,960
It's not a good feeling.

326
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:33,160
I mean, it's a whole experience and it is even disturbing.

327
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:34,160
Just listening.

328
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,160
Yeah.

329
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,600
Listening to us talk about it doesn't do it justice.

330
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,000
It's something that's very, very personal and everybody experiences it differently.

331
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,220
Absolutely.

332
00:20:45,220 --> 00:20:49,880
Even if Mike and I have similar experiences with it, it was still about deeply profound

333
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:55,080
and personal to us because you're there alone with the animal.

334
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,080
You know?

335
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,080
Right.

336
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,760
You know, you've got a lot of deer through the woods that have been shot and are running,

337
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,120
you know, by kids.

338
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:07,920
And it's not very nice to catch up to a deer that's wounded.

339
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:08,920
Yeah.

340
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,120
And you have to shoot it again.

341
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:12,520
Yeah.

342
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,200
But it's the right thing to do.

343
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,200
Yeah.

344
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:22,600
And I would also say, I think a lot of these people that want the big push of people that

345
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:28,080
want the cage free organic, like eggs, right?

346
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,080
Right.

347
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:34,880
Or the people that want the grass fed beef or whatever.

348
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,920
And they think that somehow that makes them not die.

349
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:40,920
You know?

350
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:49,880
Like those are the people that the sustainability people kind of, you know, because they, that's

351
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:55,160
what they say, like, oh, you know, the farming has to be sustainable and it's got to be,

352
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,840
you know, grass fed and they have to have free range and they shouldn't be in cages.

353
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,160
And it's like, well, okay, but they still, they still die.

354
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:08,240
And maybe you should go kill one and then come back and talk to me about sustainability.

355
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,720
You know, let's, let's have that conversation after that.

356
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,880
And I'm not saying they're wrong because, you know, like you said, the cows, some farms

357
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,320
are really great and some are not.

358
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,000
And I don't think there's a reason why all of them couldn't be great.

359
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,520
There's economic forces that cause them to be that way.

360
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:27,520
Yes.

361
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,600
I understand that.

362
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,960
If your reason B for McDonald's, bottom line's bottom line.

363
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,960
You're not going to take the extra effort because you're selling it for nothing.

364
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:38,960
Yeah.

365
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,560
That's your goal.

366
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:41,560
This production.

367
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:42,560
Yeah.

368
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,760
It all depends on what you're doing.

369
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:53,680
But like I say, a lot of these people have never killed an animal and never will.

370
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,520
Like you said, killing a bird is a lot different than killing a deer or a moose or something

371
00:22:58,520 --> 00:22:59,520
large.

372
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:00,520
Yeah.

373
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:06,800
Was a charismatic mega fauna, right?

374
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:13,160
It's definitely can be disturbing psychologically, especially the first time, especially if you're

375
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,880
a child like I was.

376
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,080
I'm sure you were too.

377
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,520
I was a child.

378
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,600
You know?

379
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:21,600
Yeah.

380
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:27,760
And contrary to what some generations believe is killing your first deer does not propel

381
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,160
you into manhood or adulthood.

382
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,560
No, not really.

383
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:40,520
I mean, I was thinking about this, I don't know, just this past week or two weeks, within

384
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:47,040
two weeks, just the whole concept of the loss of innocence.

385
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:56,680
When did I stop being the naive child?

386
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:05,920
Or was there an event that gave me that, what do you call it?

387
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,040
The adult cynicism or something?

388
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,480
You know, I don't know.

389
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:16,440
That's a whole different topic, but it wasn't killing a deer, I don't think.

390
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,000
No, not for me either.

391
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,520
I don't think there was a singular event.

392
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,080
And probably not.

393
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,480
But it is something that if you have an experience that you don't really know.

394
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:31,560
Right.

395
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,920
There's definitely negative aspects, but there's goodness.

396
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,280
I mean, I still go hunting even though I know.

397
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,280
Yeah.

398
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:46,320
I remember as a kid, I had the old trusty Red Ryder BB gun.

399
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:56,400
And I was determined to kill a bird, like a little songbird, out by the, we had a pond

400
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:02,040
and I was determined to kill one because I was like, hey, then I'm a hunter, you know?

401
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,360
And I'd plink away and those things, they're not terribly accurate and they don't really

402
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:08,040
have any range on them.

403
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,520
And so I tried for, I don't know how long, like the whole summer.

404
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,040
And I finally like killed one and it was, you know, whatever, just a little sparrow

405
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,040
or something.

406
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,260
It was just, you know, it was one of those brown ones.

407
00:25:19,260 --> 00:25:23,160
It wasn't a goldfinch or anything or a chicken or anything like that.

408
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,680
But I felt really bad about the whole thing.

409
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,320
And then I stopped trying to shoot little birds with my BB gun.

410
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:34,400
It was just something that, you know, I thought would be cool to do and it turned out it wasn't,

411
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,400
you know?

412
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,200
I think the chase is more exciting than the catch.

413
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:39,200
Yeah.

414
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,200
For sure.

415
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,000
So, I guess we both established that there's downsides to this endeavor.

416
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,880
Yeah, but they're not, I think to your point though, it's like...

417
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:51,880
It's important.

418
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,560
It's important to understand what you're doing.

419
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:59,400
Yeah, because not everything is all good or all bad.

420
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,760
And you're going to have conflicted feelings about a lot of things in life.

421
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,960
Like even me going to work every day, like I have conflicted feelings about that, you

422
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:08,960
know?

423
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,960
Right.

424
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:10,960
Oh, for sure.

425
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,520
But, you know, and we're talking about the softening of society or the softening of language

426
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,320
or what have you.

427
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:25,120
And if you don't understand the processes involved, it's very hard to sound intelligent

428
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:26,720
when you're trying to talk about it.

429
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,320
Oh, for sure.

430
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:35,760
You know, like there's a big difference between going to Chick-fil-A and getting a chicken

431
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:42,800
sandwich and raising chickens at your house and showing chickens at the county fair and

432
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,400
then butchering the chickens at the end of the season.

433
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,600
That's a totally different process.

434
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:58,680
Or even keeping chickens just for eggs, for egg production.

435
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,040
That's a whole thing in and of itself.

436
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,560
And you don't even have to kill the chickens.

437
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:03,560
Right.

438
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:11,000
But it's still, you know, like you're taking their eggs that they think are going to be

439
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,000
chicks, you know?

440
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,000
Right.

441
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,000
And it's dirty.

442
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,000
Chickens are dirty.

443
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,000
They're dirty.

444
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,000
They're wild.

445
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,000
I became a chicken when I was younger.

446
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,080
I do not recommend keeping chickens.

447
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,360
They are dirty and it's a full-time job.

448
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:24,360
Yeah.

449
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:25,880
You definitely can't go on vacation.

450
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,000
And you got to keep all the foxes and other things out of the pen.

451
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,000
Yep.

452
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,000
Keep your dog out of the pen.

453
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,040
You got to take care of the mess.

454
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,040
Yep.

455
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,160
It's a lot of work.

456
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:45,920
So yeah, I mean, it's not necessarily just hunting, but a lot of the food production

457
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:52,360
cycle, you know, a lot of people don't understand the whole concept of it.

458
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:53,360
Right.

459
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:58,800
Well, it's like combining a field kills a lot of animals.

460
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,240
Yeah.

461
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:07,480
So even if you're a vegan, a lot of animals had to die to produce that food on a farm,

462
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,480
a factory farm.

463
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,480
Yes.

464
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:15,760
Unless you're growing it in your garden at home, there are animals dying to do that for

465
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:16,760
certain.

466
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:17,760
That's fine.

467
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,760
That's the way that life is.

468
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,480
Life eats life.

469
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,200
It's the cycle, right?

470
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,880
Well, in the words of Qui-Gon Jinn, there's always a bigger fish.

471
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:30,880
Right.

472
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:31,880
Uh-oh.

473
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:41,700
So I kind of wanted to get into, now we've kind of established our personal positions

474
00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:42,700
on hunting.

475
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:44,760
Yeah, I'm not trying to derail you.

476
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,840
No, no, no, no, no.

477
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:47,840
We're not derailing.

478
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:48,840
We're vamping, of course.

479
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:49,840
That's how it rolls.

480
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,840
We're just bullshitting anyway.

481
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,040
Are you sure vamping isn't a cultural appropriation of vampires?

482
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,040
Yeah, maybe.

483
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,040
Maybe.

484
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,880
We'll get back to you on that one.

485
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,080
I'm not the southeastern European.

486
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,080
We'll check the etymology.

487
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,080
Right.

488
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:20,080
It seems like once or twice a year, every year, there's a controversy surrounding hunting.

489
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:25,760
And usually it's big game hunting and usually it's not in America.

490
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,240
Are you talking about the Minnesota dentist who killed Cecil the Lion?

491
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,120
Yeah, that was a while back.

492
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,120
Yeah, yeah.

493
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,120
Stuff like that.

494
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,120
But it happens a couple of times a year.

495
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,560
There's a beautiful blonde woman that shoots a rhinoceros.

496
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:48,920
Or like you said, the dentist that shot a fucking lion that had a name on a game preserve.

497
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:56,640
And people don't understand the economy when it comes to big game hunting, especially.

498
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:03,080
I know there's a lot of resistance against bear hunting, but that's a lot of money.

499
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,480
And that money goes to pay for those animals.

500
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:14,000
So when you talk about like Cecil the Lion, Cecil the Lion paid for all the other lions

501
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,240
to live.

502
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:22,320
And without the money that came from those people paying to hunt, the lions would go

503
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:30,600
extinct because they turn it all into farmland and there would be no wildlife as they know

504
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:31,600
it there.

505
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:37,480
Because wildlife doesn't make money and the world is about making money.

506
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:44,600
So the plains of Africa would be plowed just like the plains of America.

507
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,440
And there'd be a genocide of animals just like there was on this continent.

508
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:56,120
There are no bison herds that roam the continent as there was 150 years ago.

509
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,360
No, yeah.

510
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,720
And think about the deforestation of the rainforest.

511
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:06,440
You know, for lumber and how many animals have been.

512
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:15,080
And I think that's the tough thing to kind of understand and to swallow is a lot of hunters

513
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:21,480
talk about preserving the animal that they're hunting, which doesn't seem to make any sense

514
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,680
because why would you kill what you're trying to preserve?

515
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:31,000
That like you said, you know, at least here in Minnesota and a lot of other states, you

516
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:39,360
have to buy the hunting license, which funds the DNR, which manages the land and the herd

517
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,600
size and issues the licenses.

518
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,200
And they only issue or they should only be issuing.

519
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,840
That doesn't mean that they're infallible, but they should only be issuing the licenses

520
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:56,240
for deer that can be killed and removed to keep the herd healthy.

521
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,240
And the same with bear.

522
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:03,000
I mean, the bear system, at least in Wisconsin, is kind of a lottery you pay every year to

523
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,160
put in for a bear.

524
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:10,240
And if you don't get it, you get additional points to go into next year's kind of lottery,

525
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,160
you know, and it's a weighted lottery or something.

526
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:22,360
But all that money is being given or goes to the DNR to help manage these lands and

527
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,880
these herds and these animals.

528
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:30,160
And you can't have, I mean, people won't do that for free because if they would, we wouldn't

529
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,480
have a DNR and we just have people managing it for free and there would be no hunting

530
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,720
and everybody would just be happy in life, I guess.

531
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,640
But that's not how people are.

532
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,120
People are lazy inherently.

533
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:46,920
Right, the hard fact is that nobody gives a shit about the wild animals.

534
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,360
And the only ones who do care are the ones who are interacting with the wildlife.

535
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:52,360
And that means hunters.

536
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:53,360
Yeah.

537
00:32:53,360 --> 00:33:03,240
And the only reason why we have large game on this continent at all are because of hunters.

538
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,120
The greater Canadian geese or the greater Canadian goose was saved from extinction by

539
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:14,280
hunters while turkeys were saved from extinction by hunters.

540
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,720
Elk were saved from extinction by hunters.

541
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,120
Well the greater Canadian goose is a Wisconsin story.

542
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,320
I'm sure you know it.

543
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:23,320
I don't.

544
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:24,320
I hate those things.

545
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,080
Oh, so the greater Canadian goose.

546
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,080
I don't really hate them.

547
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,080
Right, I do.

548
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,080
They're fucking nasty.

549
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,080
Yeah, I hate them too then.

550
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,080
Yeah, they're nasty.

551
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:38,080
But yeah, the greater Canadian goose was considered extinct until they found a single flock of

552
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,080
geese in Wisconsin.

553
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:47,080
And they used funds from hunting licenses to breed them and spread them.

554
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,080
And now there's a half a million of them that live in the state of North Dakota year round.

555
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:56,080
There's a half a million of them that live at the park just down the road from us.

556
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:06,160
Oh, in Minneapolis, working in Minneapolis, in the little ponds on the four-leaf clovers,

557
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,160
those geese are mean.

558
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,160
They'll attack you.

559
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,680
If you break down on the side of the road, the geese will attack you.

560
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,240
They're aggressive.

561
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:19,280
But there's several stories of conservation.

562
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,920
And that's, they call it conservative and conservationists are all tied together.

563
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:24,920
Yeah.

564
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:30,520
And it's all tied together by hunting dollars in this country.

565
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,520
No money goes towards protecting animals that isn't hunting money.

566
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:35,660
Yeah.

567
00:34:35,660 --> 00:34:40,200
The bison was mostly, was it fur trappers that killed them all?

568
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,760
No, I don't know.

569
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,400
They were like big bison runs.

570
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,040
They'd take the railroad, but shoot them all.

571
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,560
Yeah, because they were derailing trains.

572
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,880
But I know the fur trapping industry, they would kill a whole bunch of animals just for

573
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:56,880
their hides.

574
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,640
And they'd just leave them.

575
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,040
And they still do.

576
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,920
Just typically hunters, unless you're trophy hunting.

577
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,280
So let's put that little caveat there.

578
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:16,640
Most hunters kill the game that they'll be able to eat.

579
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,240
Right.

580
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:24,840
So when we would shoot deer, it would be like, great, we don't have to buy meat for X number

581
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,440
of months because we got a deer.

582
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,160
One deer will feed, I don't know what it is, but you know.

583
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,600
It goes a long way.

584
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,920
For a year, maybe two.

585
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,680
I know for one calendar year, because I marked the dates.

586
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:47,520
I ate nothing meat wise other than what I caught myself.

587
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:54,240
I either caught the fish or I shot the animal myself and processed it myself and cooked

588
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:55,860
it myself.

589
00:35:55,860 --> 00:36:02,200
And that's all money that doesn't go to these large industrial farm complexes.

590
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,200
Right.

591
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:08,280
And all that money went into ammunition and guns and licenses.

592
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,400
There's a tax on all the hunting clothes you buy.

593
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,400
Yeah.

594
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,480
All the ammunition, every round of ammunition that gets sold in the United States gets taxed.

595
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:24,480
But yeah, what I'm trying to get at is if you're concerned about these big industrial

596
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:30,180
complexes that de-beak chickens so that they can pack them in tighter without them pecking

597
00:36:30,180 --> 00:36:35,320
one another to death and all these inhumane living conditions that these animals have

598
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:41,640
to live in at these big industrial complexes, then you should 100% be for hunting because

599
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,000
every deer shot will feed a family.

600
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,900
And that's maybe not for a full year, it depends on the size of your family, but that is taking

601
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:53,600
money out of those big industrial kill farms pockets.

602
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:54,600
Right.

603
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:59,920
Well, the controversy only ever happens when somebody shoots a buck with like 28 points

604
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:02,240
and they take the picture and they're really proud of it.

605
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:03,240
Yeah.

606
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:08,120
And usually that happens on farms where they farm deer and they shoot them over feeders

607
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:09,120
and people get upset.

608
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:14,960
The thing that people don't realize is that that's part of an industry that keeps all

609
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,160
the animals alive.

610
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,840
Right.

611
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,680
All the other deer that live, live because of the hunting industry.

612
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,680
Yeah.

613
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:31,400
And a lot of those bigger bucks, at least for the deer, like their genes or they're

614
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:36,720
too old to breed or they're, you know, like it's getting to the point where they're detrimental

615
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:45,240
to the herd because if they keep staying on top of the herd, there's going to be inbreeding,

616
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:47,520
of course, and other things too.

617
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,680
So it's not necessarily in the herd's best interest for that big trophy buck to live

618
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:52,680
and to keep on.

619
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:53,680
They only live six game years anyway.

620
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:54,680
Well, yes.

621
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,680
That buck would die in the winter, potentially.

622
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:58,680
Yeah.

623
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,160
But I mean, that's the other thing to consider is, you know, some of these trophy bucks,

624
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:07,640
like they need to be gotten rid of for the benefit of the herd almost.

625
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:08,640
Right.

626
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:09,640
Because it's-

627
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:17,120
There was a hunt a couple of years ago in Africa where they shot a endangered rhino

628
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,200
and they auctioned it off and somebody spent a lot of money to shoot this rhino.

629
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:23,200
Yeah.

630
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,880
And people got very upset because, oh, the blah, blah, blah rhino is going extinct.

631
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:37,560
But they didn't even take into consideration is that this huge land preserve had to kill

632
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:43,480
the rhino no matter what because it started to go wild or insane and started killing the

633
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:44,480
other rhinos.

634
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,480
So they had to kill it.

635
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:46,480
Yeah.

636
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:53,880
So instead of killing it and not getting any money, they made how many ever dollars for

637
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,080
somebody to come in and shoot it for them.

638
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:57,080
Yeah.

639
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:04,720
You know, it's all about, it's part of the ugly side of it to where the only animals

640
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:09,400
that survive are the ones that people want to shoot more or less or want to look at or

641
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:10,880
spend money on.

642
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:11,880
Yeah.

643
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,040
Nobody cares when an animal goes extinct and nobody likes it.

644
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:16,760
You know what I mean?

645
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,760
Yeah.

646
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:23,160
Well, and there's no reason, I mean, I guess like realistically, there's no reason you

647
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:34,040
couldn't, some of these preserves couldn't auction off an animal to not be hunted.

648
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,520
You know what I mean?

649
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:36,520
Right.

650
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,560
Like, try that and then we'll have the data say-

651
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,840
Well, we know that's not going to work.

652
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,160
No, you and I know that.

653
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,280
I'm just saying like, if they said, okay, this extinct rhino that needs to be killed,

654
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:56,240
well, let's auction off it to live then and see how many people auction or bid on that.

655
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:01,160
And my guess is not very many, you know, and they would have to kill it anyway.

656
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,040
Or maybe they said, oh, we want to build like the separate pen for it so it can just live

657
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,400
out its natural life there and be insane.

658
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:17,600
And you almost get to the point where you get into these, what is it, like assisted

659
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:23,000
suicides for terminal illness patients and things.

660
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,000
Why can't they just go if they're ready?

661
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:31,300
Like if they're suffering so much, why can't they make the decision, you know, and say,

662
00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:32,880
just end it?

663
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,040
And some places it's legal and some places it's not.

664
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,600
And that's a whole big, I mean, that's a whole big discussion.

665
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:44,560
Well, I'm firmly on the side of assisted suicide, but not that I'm for Soylent Green.

666
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,440
I'm against Soylent Green, grow assisted suicide.

667
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:48,440
Yeah.

668
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:49,440
I mean, you do what you want.

669
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,040
I just don't want to have to eat you on Wednesdays.

670
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,040
Right.

671
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,040
Exactly.

672
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,440
I don't want to find out that Soylent Green is people.

673
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,520
I'm okay.

674
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,800
Label it and then I'll know and I'll go hunt my own people because I don't want farm processed

675
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:04,800
people.

676
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:05,800
I want wild people.

677
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:06,800
Exactly.

678
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:07,800
So, I think that's interesting.

679
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:08,800
I think it is controversial.

680
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:09,800
Yeah.

681
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:21,280
I do think though that the Cecil, the lion thing, skirted some big, I don't know, laws

682
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,520
or they did a couple no-nos.

683
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,840
So I don't think that is, should be held up.

684
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,680
There was a bit of confusion.

685
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:33,800
The guy that shot it thought that he was shooting a lion that he was approved to shoot and the

686
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,880
guide fucked it up somehow.

687
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:36,880
Yeah.

688
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,800
I mean, there's something with that that makes that not a good example of this is how it

689
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:42,800
should go.

690
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,200
There was something that was off about it, but it wasn't necessarily the fault of the

691
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,200
hunter.

692
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,680
It was more of a miscommunication.

693
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,200
I mean, I think.

694
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,200
I think.

695
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,680
Nobody shoots a lion to eat it.

696
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:57,680
No.

697
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:04,720
There's not a lot of criticism of going out and going fishing for pan fish.

698
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:13,080
But when somebody catches a 56 inch musky, now they have a little bit of heat on them.

699
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,960
But somebody catching a 56 inch musky gets a lot of guys out there buying lures and fishing

700
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:25,800
licenses and that pays to support that wildlife.

701
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,400
It's not bad press necessarily.

702
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:28,400
No.

703
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,240
And just real quick, going back to the Cecil thing, I'm not going to keep harping on it.

704
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:37,760
It was a big, big story here and a lot of people were very upset in Minneapolis because

705
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:43,600
it was very close to Minneapolis where this dentist's office was.

706
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:48,200
But when you say it's not the hunter's fault that he shot something he shouldn't have shot,

707
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,600
Alec Baldwin would agree with you on that.

708
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:51,600
Oh my God.

709
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:58,160
I think, and that's part of what I, and maybe it's just because I was told this so many

710
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,960
times as a kid, if you're not sure, don't shoot it.

711
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,160
Oh yeah.

712
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,960
And mostly that was for pheasant hunting because if you didn't know it was a rooster, you couldn't

713
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,120
shoot it because it's not legal unless you're at a game farm where you can shoot whatever

714
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,360
they put in the air.

715
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,920
And if you had a buck only tag in the antlers, they had to be, I think, three inches for

716
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,000
it to be legally considered a buck.

717
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,920
So if it was nubs and you weren't sure they were three inches, then you don't shoot that

718
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,720
because that could be illegal.

719
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:33,680
And that was just ingrained into me.

720
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:39,680
So if, but I mean, if the guide is telling you, go ahead and shoot it, then it's on the

721
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,880
guide because that's why you're paying the guide.

722
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:50,000
When you go to Alaska to hunt grizzly bears or brown bears, the guide tells you which

723
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,680
ones you can and can't shoot.

724
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,640
I mean, they're the experts are supposed to be.

725
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,560
So I mean, in that instance, there's some sort of,

726
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:03,520
I've never hunted a bear, never shot bear.

727
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,280
I know that's controversial too, because people think that bears are cuddly and they're not,

728
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,760
they're vicious animals.

729
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,920
And a lot of the bigger bears start cannibalizing the younger bears.

730
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:19,080
So it is good to get the big bears out of the gene pool.

731
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:25,000
Well my dad went with a buddy and they went up to Alaska and hunted grizzly bears and

732
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,680
he, well brown bears.

733
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:32,320
I'm not entirely certain the difference between brown and grizzly.

734
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,640
And then there's also Kodiak bears, but they shot brown bears.

735
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:41,480
And I guess it's very intense because you're in waders and you're going up and down these

736
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:46,720
like trout streams or salmon streams where the bears go to feed.

737
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:48,480
And apparently the bears can count.

738
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:54,360
So if you can sound like more than one person or more than one bear and it's only one bear,

739
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,640
you can kind of outbluff them, but they're still going to be gnarling and gnashing their

740
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,680
teeth at you.

741
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:05,840
But then my only experience with, I've never hunted bear, but I came home to visit from

742
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:11,000
college one day or from, I think it was out of college, but I came back to my dad's house

743
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:17,440
and he had just shot earlier in the day, a black bear and he couldn't find it.

744
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,760
And so I got there and it was pitch black because it was, I think it was this time of

745
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:28,080
year where it gets dark all day and then all night.

746
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,600
And he's like, we got to go out and find this black bear that's potentially wounded in this

747
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,640
thick patch of brush.

748
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,800
And I'm like, well, I need a gun.

749
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:43,280
And it's my understanding that when you're out to search for a downed animal outside

750
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:48,960
of hunting hours, it's not legal to carry a gun to go search for this downed animal.

751
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,760
But that's one of those things where common sense must prevail.

752
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:59,360
And you don't want to get yourself mauled because even though black bears typically

753
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:05,160
will run away from a human, a wounded black bear, if it's unable to run, will fight.

754
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,960
And I don't know about you, but the last time I checked, I cannot physically take down a

755
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,560
black bear hand to hand combat.

756
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:15,840
But we found it and it was dead.

757
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:17,680
So that was good.

758
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:24,320
We didn't have to have a shootout with a black bear in the middle of the night.

759
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,960
But that was pretty intense going out, knowing you're going to look for a black bear that

760
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:30,960
had been shot.

761
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:31,960
Right.

762
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,520
That's more intense than looking after a buck.

763
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,200
And a buck will attack you.

764
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,480
No questions asked, they'll attack.

765
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,120
If they're wounded.

766
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,520
That's part of the reason why I got that.

767
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,320
I have a shoulder holster and a 357.

768
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,440
You shot the 357.

769
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,960
And it's because we have to brush whack a lot and it's like, ah, I'm not going out there

770
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:57,960
without something, you know?

771
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:58,960
Yeah, for sure.

772
00:46:58,960 --> 00:46:59,960
It's got to have something.

773
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:00,960
And sometimes you can't take a shotgun.

774
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:09,400
And then even where we used to deer hunt, there was, they weren't super common, but

775
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,480
there were were wolves in the area.

776
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:18,560
So even though you're supposed to unload at closing time, we were a couple miles back

777
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,360
in the state forest in like the thick swamp.

778
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,640
And I never unloaded until we got back to the car or the four wheeler if we took the

779
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:33,320
four wheeler out, you know, just as a safety protocol.

780
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:37,840
I mean, normally a wolf's not going to attack you, but if you have a downed deer and a gut

781
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,420
pile, I mean, who knows?

782
00:47:40,420 --> 00:47:43,700
So some of the stuff is just common sense.

783
00:47:43,700 --> 00:47:48,400
And those are some of the things that people that haven't been out in the woods, because

784
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:54,880
if you've shot a deer and you've gutted it and it's dark now and you're in a thick swamp

785
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:59,840
where it gets dark half an hour before it gets dark anywhere else and you're waiting

786
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:06,600
for your dad to go back to the car, a two mile hike, drive back the 15, 20 minutes to

787
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:13,460
the cabin to get the four wheeler on a trailer, come back the 15, 20 minutes back, drive the

788
00:48:13,460 --> 00:48:19,680
two miles out and you're sitting there in the dark for an hour and a half in the pitch

789
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,340
black.

790
00:48:21,340 --> 00:48:24,240
I don't care how many guns you have on you, you're going to start thinking like, what's

791
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:25,720
out there coming to get me.

792
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:26,720
Oh, the fairies.

793
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:27,720
The fairies come out.

794
00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:28,720
Yeah, exactly.

795
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:29,720
That's what I'm talking about.

796
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:30,720
The fairies come out.

797
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:36,720
You know, I mean, that's, I mean, it's humbling, you know, it's, you know, you feel safe most

798
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:39,680
of the time.

799
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:44,000
But you, you know, you quickly realize you're not in your own domain anymore.

800
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,520
You know, you're part of something bigger.

801
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:53,160
So I mean, that, I mean, that, and at the time, like I was nervous and scared, but like

802
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:59,720
looking back, I'm like, that's kind of like the more magical moments, I guess.

803
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:04,200
It didn't feel like it at the time, but like looking back, you know, like being back in

804
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:10,740
the deep woods with like nobody, it's like, yep, one of us has to go back and get the,

805
00:49:10,740 --> 00:49:13,040
get the four wheeler to get this thing out.

806
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:14,120
Cause we can't drag it.

807
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,560
You physically can't drag it two miles through the woods.

808
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:25,160
Well, you could, but it'd be, it'd be better off cutting it up and putting it on your back.

809
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:26,640
Yeah.

810
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,680
And that was before like the remote tagging stuff.

811
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,360
Like cause you can, cause now, right, you can like just log it on your phone and tag

812
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:35,360
it or something.

813
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:36,360
Cause we always had to bring it.

814
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:37,360
I don't know.

815
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,360
I still get a paper, a paper license.

816
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,900
We had to bring it back to this, it was called Musky Jacks.

817
00:49:44,900 --> 00:49:48,680
And this guy was like the grossest guy you could ever possibly think to run this little

818
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,640
like bar diner place.

819
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:51,800
He was a Jack Spine Savage.

820
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:53,120
Of course.

821
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,920
And you know, if you ever seen, have you ever seen a Good Burger?

822
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:57,920
No.

823
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:58,920
Okay.

824
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,280
So they run a fast food restaurant that makes burgers, but the cook, the head cook is, his

825
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,680
name is Spatch, you know, for spatula.

826
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,520
And there's a scene where there's a fly flying around.

827
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:09,560
It lands on his forehead.

828
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:15,080
He slaps it with his spatula, licks the fly off of the spatula and then flips the burger

829
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,080
patty.

830
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:23,000
So it's pretty much that guy, but with more tattoos and body hair.

831
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,720
And you'd have to go in there and he'd waddle out, you know, there I am.

832
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:31,680
Let me see it, you know, and he'd look and he'd be the one that would register it with

833
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:33,480
the DNR, you know, whatever.

834
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,760
But I think now, like when you shoot one, you don't have to bring it in.

835
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,680
You can either like take a picture or like somehow log it on the DNR site.

836
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:46,480
So it's a lot more technological, but long story short, we couldn't cut it up because

837
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:51,640
you couldn't do anything to it outside of gut it before getting it tagged.

838
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,440
Sure.

839
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,200
Okay.

840
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,520
But that's really not here nor there.

841
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:06,480
It's just for the purposes of the story, one of us had to be there with the carcass in

842
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:07,480
the woods.

843
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,560
And if you were the one that shot it, you were the one that was staying there with it.

844
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:11,560
Right.

845
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,800
Yeah, because your tags on it.

846
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,280
At that point, party hunting is over.

847
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:17,280
Yeah.

848
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,600
Your tags on it, you have to be with the body.

849
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:20,600
Yes.

850
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,520
And then of course, that's when you start thinking about wolf packs and all the movies

851
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:29,200
that you've seen where the wolves are vicious and come after humans and all these other

852
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:35,080
animals that you don't think are real, but suddenly are very, very real.

853
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:36,080
Right.

854
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:37,800
And then you hear the coyotes yelp.

855
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:38,800
Yeah.

856
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,040
And then you're rustling in the woods.

857
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:43,040
Exactly.

858
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:44,040
Yeah.

859
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:45,040
So.

860
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,040
Yeah.

861
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:57,040
Like I say, it's an important experience that our ancestors almost universally had and so

862
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,840
few people now experience.

863
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:01,840
And it's humbling.

864
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,360
It's, I guess, it's a mixture of emotions.

865
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:12,800
And there's a lot of judgment when these big stories pop up and all these people from lives

866
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:17,080
where they're eating their chicken sandwiches or they go into their sushi bar.

867
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:18,520
Yeah.

868
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,400
And they're casting judgment.

869
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,800
And usually it's a pretty ridiculous thing.

870
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:24,800
Yeah.

871
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,800
Not going to lie.

872
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:34,320
But I took a picture this season where there was a group of hunters and all the birds that

873
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,160
we shot.

874
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,840
And if that were ever to go on the internet, I'm sure that they would be upset because

875
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:45,880
there's all these birds on this huge rock and there's all these hunters and their guns

876
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,960
and their birds and their dogs and blah, blah, blah.

877
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:49,960
Yeah.

878
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,520
And it's like, well, it's part of the cycle of life.

879
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,320
It's part of the experience.

880
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:56,480
Yeah.

881
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:07,200
And I think in human history, you know, let's go just go back like a hundred years even.

882
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:15,680
Maybe a little bit longer than that, but hunting wasn't really, I mean, so hunting, I mean,

883
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,240
like fox hunting has been a sport for a long time and it's been a sport for a long time.

884
00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:23,960
But if you go back far enough, hunting was solely about the survival of your family.

885
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:34,280
And if you didn't kill an animal to feed your family for the winter, you would have to pay

886
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:39,760
a lot of money or you'd have to figure out some other barter system trade to feed your

887
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:40,760
family.

888
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:45,280
I mean, it was your family's survival or not.

889
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:51,280
So maybe a lot of the other older generations, I don't know, would you even, would guilt

890
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:57,880
even come into your consciousness for killing an animal if it meant you got to live another

891
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:58,880
winter?

892
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:04,080
You know, like I think that's part of the, part of the thing that people forget too is

893
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,880
it, it, it originated out of survival, out of necessity.

894
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,880
I mean, hunter gatherer.

895
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:16,920
That's I definitely felt that like, uh, I don't want to sound like a spiritual, but

896
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:22,320
that bond between myself and the animal that I harvested.

897
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:23,320
You know what I mean?

898
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:27,560
Oh, it's like, say the glory of the hunt or anything like that.

899
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,440
No, but there is a bond.

900
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:30,440
There is a bond.

901
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:31,440
Yeah.

902
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,520
And it's like, this is going to sustain me.

903
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:42,200
Uh, and I'm not like slapping, like you always see these videos, guys being disrespectful

904
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,560
to these animals that they hunt and there's idiots everywhere, you know?

905
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:46,560
Oh yeah.

906
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,080
We're not, I mean, and that's, I don't think that's what you're saying.

907
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,440
I mean, not every hunter is respectful or not.

908
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:57,360
Every hunter goes into it with the right mindset or not every, you know, as the same with farmers

909
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,240
or the same with vegans, you know, like

910
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:03,520
there's people who have variety anxiousness.

911
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:04,520
Yeah.

912
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,800
And some people are just dicks.

913
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:11,760
I do think anybody who does eat meat, who has never killed an animal should go out and

914
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,120
kill an animal at least one time.

915
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:15,120
Yeah.

916
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:21,300
Then a large animal, not just a bird and not just catching a fish.

917
00:55:21,300 --> 00:55:23,080
Anybody can get a fishing license.

918
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:24,080
Yeah.

919
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:29,160
I would, uh, and it is different catching a fish and cleaning it yourself and cooking

920
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:30,160
it.

921
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,160
It sucks.

922
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:32,160
The whole thing sucks.

923
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:33,160
It sucks.

924
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:34,160
Especially if it's an eel pulp.

925
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:35,160
Yeah.

926
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:36,160
Which are delicious.

927
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:37,160
Uh, but it's horrifying.

928
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:38,160
Bordelette.

929
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,960
Horrifying to catch an eel pulp and to clean it.

930
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:46,880
It's terrible, but they're wonderful to eat.

931
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:53,360
Very, uh, I catch eel pulp on purpose because it's so good to eat, but it is horrifying

932
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:54,360
to catch them.

933
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:55,360
Yeah.

934
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:56,360
I don't really like eating.

935
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,120
Um, I don't know if I've mentioned this on the podcast before.

936
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,320
I'm not a huge fan of fish or seafood.

937
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,760
Um, Oh, so you're never going to come out paddle fishing with me.

938
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:05,760
I'll go paddle fishing.

939
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:12,480
Um, I don't, I don't mind the fishing part, you know, like catching them is fun.

940
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:18,680
I like the camaraderie like on the boat or, um, you know, with the group and doing the

941
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,600
things I just, I don't like to eat the fish so much.

942
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:22,600
Sure.

943
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:23,600
Paddle fishing sucks.

944
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:28,600
Uh, but it's a lot of fun because there's the camaraderie.

945
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:34,720
And the suckiness of doing it is part of the payoff of getting the fish and bringing it

946
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:36,760
home and cleaning it up.

947
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,680
Um, so, uh, but to be fair though, I'll, I'll eat.

948
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:47,560
Uh, so when I was in Maine, I ate lobster and crab because I was in Maine and it was

949
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:53,320
caught fresh, like right off the coast, right there, you know, I'll do that.

950
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:59,680
And then when we were in St. Louis, we went to a Creole place and I had a, some kind of,

951
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:04,080
I don't know, some kind of like a shrimp gumbo or something.

952
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:08,480
And I ordered it specifically off the menu and everybody else with me ordered like spaghetti.

953
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:14,280
And I'm like, we came to this Creole place and their specialty is preparing Creole food

954
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,280
and you're ordering spaghetti.

955
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:20,480
You know, so I mean, so I'm not opposed to eating it or trying it.

956
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,480
I just don't really seek it out.

957
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:28,200
But if I'm in some place where that's their specialty or it's fresh or it's right there,

958
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,000
like I'll try it for sure.

959
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,760
Um, and I eat sushi.

960
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,560
Um, I prefer like the crab sushi.

961
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,200
Like I, I found, I prefer crab over lobster.

962
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,520
Um, sure.

963
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,880
But you know, that's just personal.

964
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:44,080
It's more of like a texture thing with the fish.

965
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:45,080
Like I don't know.

966
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,080
It's just a weird weird.

967
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:54,560
I know one of the things with Sarah moving up here, she doesn't like to eat fish.

968
00:57:54,560 --> 00:58:03,320
And that really disappointed my family because it's obviously we, everybody goes fishing

969
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:08,160
all summer long and she doesn't like to eat fish.

970
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,160
People had a very hard time understanding that.

971
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:12,160
Yeah.

972
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:18,040
But yeah, no, I think, I think, you know, uh, even fishing, like if, if you eat a fish

973
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:22,760
and sushi and stuff, you should catch and clean a fish at least once.

974
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:30,960
Um, it's a whole process and chicken, uh, I've never, I don't think I've ever killed

975
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,320
a chicken or cleaned a chicken.

976
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:38,280
Uh, but you know, I've killed and cleaned plenty of grouse and pheasant and it's similar

977
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:39,280
process.

978
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:44,480
Like it sucks, you know, it's, uh, no, no, it's way worse with chickens because, uh,

979
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:49,520
we raised chickens when I was younger and I showed chickens and I had my favorite chickens,

980
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:51,280
you know, and I named them.

981
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:52,280
Okay.

982
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:56,840
At the end of the year in the fall time, when it came time to slaughter, I had to hold the

983
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:01,840
motherfuckers and my dad cut their head off with a knife.

984
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:02,840
Okay.

985
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:03,840
Yeah.

986
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:09,320
And, uh, fortunately my mom never labeled the bags, the names of the chickens.

987
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,320
She could have, you know,

988
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,880
Now it would have been pretty, uh, pretty metal.

989
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:16,600
Oh, it's very metal.

990
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:23,240
I, uh, we were killing, uh, one of the chickens I won a prize for and I didn't have the heart

991
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:24,240
for it.

992
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:30,000
And I let the chicken go and my dad cut his hand and he got so mad.

993
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,920
Oh, he got so mad.

994
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:39,120
That's, you know, whatever.

995
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:40,120
Time has passed.

996
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,280
But yeah, every scar is a story.

997
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,680
It's one of those things.

998
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,960
And I think all of these people that are like, uh, don't want to eat vegetarian meals, which

999
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:55,400
I eat vegetarian meals pretty much all the time.

1000
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:56,400
Yeah.

1001
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:03,840
Uh, routinely, they just don't appreciate the death that's involved with eating chicken

1002
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:04,840
nuggets.

1003
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:05,840
You know what I mean?

1004
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:06,840
Like, yeah, sure.

1005
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:11,920
Sure. It's cute and it looks like a dinosaur, but it's still a chicken that died.

1006
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:12,920
Right.

1007
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:18,440
Like eat a fucking burrito with some vegetables on it.

1008
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:19,440
You know what I mean?

1009
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,400
Eat some brown, uh, brown bean burritos.

1010
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,760
There's some really good vegetarian meals.

1011
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:32,080
Um, and even, uh, this is something I never thought I would say just based on the household

1012
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:33,760
that we were kind of like raised in.

1013
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:39,360
But, uh, my brother, I don't know if he still is, but he was, uh, vegan.

1014
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:42,200
And so they ate, you know, a lot of tofu and stuff.

1015
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:47,360
And they're telling me that there's different, um, firmnesses of tofu, which I never, you

1016
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:52,000
know, I never really looked into tofu because tofu has just got a bad rap, you know?

1017
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:58,400
Um, a lot of people that aren't vegan or vegetarian, they've never tried tofu.

1018
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,280
There's like, oh yeah, that's a Latinist like tofu, whatever.

1019
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,960
But tofu is actually pretty good.

1020
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,880
If you know what you're doing with it and know how to prepare it, you know, it's a whole

1021
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:08,880
separate thing.

1022
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:17,400
Scramble tofu and I'm a big fan of miso soup, which has fish in it because you're using

1023
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:21,640
fish flakes to make the base.

1024
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:28,560
But uh, yeah, that's tofu in the right context.

1025
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:35,040
We grew up and we had a lot of chicken a la king and, um, I still like to make it every

1026
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:36,040
once in a while.

1027
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:37,440
And then my brother came to visit and he was vegan.

1028
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:39,380
And so we did a tofu a la king.

1029
01:01:39,380 --> 01:01:41,960
We just subbed the chicken for tofu.

1030
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,320
And then instead of chicken stock, we use vegetable stock, that sort of thing.

1031
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,120
Um, and it was tasty.

1032
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:48,560
It was really good.

1033
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:55,980
And um, Oh, here's another thing people don't know is a lot of wine.

1034
01:01:55,980 --> 01:02:03,880
If you're vegan, uh, you, and you are committed to the cause, there's actually vegan wine.

1035
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:09,920
And now you might know this mic because you're knowledgeable in all sorts of areas, but the

1036
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:15,480
way that they filter a lot of wine is they use fish stones.

1037
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:20,960
They used to use, uh, ox blood, but I guess the stones from certain fishes, throats or

1038
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:27,640
whatever, um, clean the impurities out of the wine much better than ox blood.

1039
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:34,120
So the process for making a lot of this wine is not vegan.

1040
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:38,920
Even though the fish stones don't stay in the wine, you're not necessarily drinking

1041
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:39,920
fish.

1042
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:41,640
You know what I mean?

1043
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:42,640
Right.

1044
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:46,000
But a fish died to make that, to make that wine.

1045
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:53,920
So if you're truly living the vegan, um, tenant, uh, then you can't partake, but they do make

1046
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:54,920
plenty of wine.

1047
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:56,920
That's a, that is vegan.

1048
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:57,920
Interesting.

1049
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,600
I did not know that about wine.

1050
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:04,640
I knew it about white sugar, beet sugar.

1051
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:05,640
Okay.

1052
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,720
I knew it about, uh, Guinness.

1053
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:16,280
They use, uh, animal parts in processing Guinness and in processing white sugar.

1054
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:17,280
Okay.

1055
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,640
No, I did not know that about wine though.

1056
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:21,640
Interesting.

1057
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:22,640
Yeah.

1058
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:28,680
I, the only reason I know is, um, when I went for my internship in London, I was, uh, letting

1059
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:35,720
a room from, uh, this, uh, I think they were Danish or Dutch or something.

1060
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:42,480
Um, but they were vegan and they were telling me about their, their food.

1061
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,680
Cause I was curious and asking questions.

1062
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,800
Cause they're the first vegans that I kind of interacted with.

1063
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:56,080
Cause this was kind of before the, I don't know if it's necessarily, um, a fad or trend,

1064
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:00,800
but this was before veganism kind of rose in America.

1065
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,160
And they were talking about the wine.

1066
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:05,640
The vegans that we think of because vegans have been around for a long time.

1067
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,240
No, I know it's been around for a long time.

1068
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:12,280
The social vegans or the virtue signaling vegans.

1069
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:15,600
Um, but, uh, they were telling me about the wine.

1070
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:20,280
And so I wanted to get them a little, you know, a bottle of wine or something.

1071
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,960
It's just kind of a thank you after I left, you know, I paid for the room and everything,

1072
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:27,960
but kind of like as a tip or whatever, what have you, a nice gesture because they were

1073
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,680
super friendly and everything and really nice.

1074
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:36,800
And uh, so I, I had a, and I looked and I looked and I looked at the, uh, the, the wine

1075
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:41,660
place, which I think was just the supermarket because you know, they're not as backwards

1076
01:04:41,660 --> 01:04:47,080
as we are with some of our liquor laws in some states, but, uh, you know, I made sure

1077
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,320
to pick out a vegan wine.

1078
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:50,320
So sure.

1079
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,040
But otherwise I would never know.

1080
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:56,760
And I still probably wouldn't know to this day because I don't drink a whole lot of wine.

1081
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,760
Now I'm not a wine guy myself.

1082
01:04:58,760 --> 01:04:59,760
Serious.

1083
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:04,760
I do like the, uh, the Syrah and I know the, uh, there's a Syrah and a Shiraz and it's

1084
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:11,000
the same grape, but the, I think the Syrah is the Californian grape and the Shiraz is

1085
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,560
the Australian grape.

1086
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,040
Oh, oh, there we go.

1087
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:16,640
But it's a, it's a dry red.

1088
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,720
So I quite like that one.

1089
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:22,560
Interesting.

1090
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:24,680
Yeah.

1091
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:31,440
I don't like the vegans who are better than thou.

1092
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:38,360
Because they don't acknowledge like the tofu, for example, a lot of animals die to produce

1093
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:39,360
tofu.

1094
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:40,360
Yeah.

1095
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,000
You're killing rabbits.

1096
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,740
You're killing all these ground dwelling animals to produce this stuff.

1097
01:05:45,740 --> 01:05:51,000
And they use fertilizers and monocropping and all this stuff.

1098
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,640
And none of it's good for the environment.

1099
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:58,600
Nothing that we do is good for the environment.

1100
01:05:58,600 --> 01:05:59,600
Except hunting.

1101
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:03,960
Uh, the natural environment, you know, you have to modify it with chemicals, whether

1102
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:09,000
those chemicals are quote unquote natural or not.

1103
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,360
Well, to produce at the levels modern society demands.

1104
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:13,360
Right.

1105
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:20,080
I mean, the guy, it's the farmers that I live around, they still spread shit on the field,

1106
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:21,080
like actual shit.

1107
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:22,080
Yeah.

1108
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:26,040
And we have a lot of organic farms in this area.

1109
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,520
The ground is poor, a lot of rock.

1110
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:35,600
And it's off of the Mississippi River, which floods even way up north here.

1111
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:40,980
The little stream, the trick of the Mississippi is still floods.

1112
01:06:40,980 --> 01:06:46,560
And they get good water and good nutrients, but they still have to add to it.

1113
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:51,320
And most farmers don't add around here at least.

1114
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:55,360
They don't add the crazy chemicals they use on the huge farms.

1115
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,240
They just spread shit on it.

1116
01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:58,240
Yeah.

1117
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,120
But even that's a mechanical process.

1118
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:05,800
You know, there's a big machine sprayer heads.

1119
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,200
Yeah.

1120
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:13,840
But you're still, you're, you're murdering animals, quote unquote, murdering animals

1121
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:15,440
doing that for sure.

1122
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:16,440
Yeah.

1123
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:18,800
Mice and whatever's out there.

1124
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:25,360
Well, unrelated to, well, maybe possibly related to farming.

1125
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:31,800
The the puff I just took and I've got maybe two inches left was incredibly sour.

1126
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:32,940
Really?

1127
01:07:32,940 --> 01:07:35,400
So I let mine go out.

1128
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:36,400
Yeah.

1129
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:38,040
I just had to relight it a bit.

1130
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:41,680
I mean, you know, it's a little windy and they're really late.

1131
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:42,680
Every relay is sour.

1132
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:43,680
Okay.

1133
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:44,680
Mine's not sour.

1134
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:49,080
I got a couple of sour puffs and then it goes back to being pretty mellow.

1135
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:50,080
Okay.

1136
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,000
I'll have to puff again then.

1137
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,000
This is my, I don't know.

1138
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:58,920
I kind of like evened the burnout kind of halfway through, but it wasn't a full relight.

1139
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,320
And this one was kind of a full relight.

1140
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:02,720
So I'll have to see.

1141
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:08,120
I was curious to see because I know some of the, well, those weren't, those weren't CAOs

1142
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:09,120
though.

1143
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:10,120
Those were the nubs.

1144
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:11,120
Sorry.

1145
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:12,120
I was confused suddenly.

1146
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:18,320
But this CO Extreme in the past, I've had a couple of these cause I have whole blocks.

1147
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,360
They get sour.

1148
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:21,360
Okay.

1149
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:22,360
They're inconsistent.

1150
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:23,360
Yeah.

1151
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:24,360
Let's put it that way.

1152
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:26,880
And it's not the cigar that's inconsistent.

1153
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,720
It's they get sour at the end for sure.

1154
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:31,720
Okay.

1155
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:32,720
Yeah.

1156
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:37,400
They're good though, up until the point at which they're not good anymore.

1157
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:38,400
Yeah.

1158
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:39,400
Not necessarily remarkable.

1159
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:41,400
No, I was going to say like, it's good.

1160
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:46,080
I, you know, I'd rather smoke a flathead, I guess.

1161
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:49,560
Oh, I'd rather smoke oligaric Ibane.

1162
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:52,400
I'd rather smoke many of the nubs.

1163
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:55,280
I'd rather smoke a lot of other cigars.

1164
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:56,280
It's good though.

1165
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:57,280
It's good.

1166
01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:03,240
It's not a Ben cigar, but it's not, it's not quite, I wouldn't suggest that somebody gets

1167
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:04,880
one from a cigar shop.

1168
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:09,080
If you're at a cigar shop and you're going to buy a cigar, I would not suggest buying

1169
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:10,080
this cigar.

1170
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:14,760
Yeah, it's a, I'd rather smoke the, the, the Fuma.

1171
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:18,480
Oh, I had a Fuma in the stand.

1172
01:09:18,480 --> 01:09:19,920
Oh, okay.

1173
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:20,920
And it was wonderful.

1174
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:21,920
Yeah.

1175
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:22,920
Truly wonderful.

1176
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:27,680
I'm just thinking like, this one's like, oh yeah, it's a, it's a three country cocktail.

1177
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:33,120
Well that's like the guy that pumped a bunch of air into his soap and was like, well it's

1178
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,600
less soap, but oh, hey, it floats now.

1179
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:36,600
Right.

1180
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:37,600
It's just marketing.

1181
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,400
You know, it's a three country cocktail, enjoy it.

1182
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:42,440
And it's like, well, right.

1183
01:09:42,440 --> 01:09:43,440
It's fine.

1184
01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:44,440
Right.

1185
01:09:44,440 --> 01:09:48,840
It's like the, uh, Roccat Patel vintage seconds, which we had.

1186
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:49,840
Yeah.

1187
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:50,840
Those are way better.

1188
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,560
Like way better.

1189
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:55,360
Those are very good cigars.

1190
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:56,360
Really?

1191
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:57,360
Yeah.

1192
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:58,360
Yeah.

1193
01:09:58,360 --> 01:09:59,360
But yeah, this is, it's fine.

1194
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,160
I'd smoke it on, I've smoked them Molen Lawn.

1195
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:03,160
Oh yeah.

1196
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:04,160
I'm not saying it's-

1197
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:05,160
It's not a bad stick.

1198
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:11,400
It's not a bad stick, but it's not, there's nothing I'm going to write home about.

1199
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:12,400
No.

1200
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,040
And sometimes you just need a, a decent stick.

1201
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:20,080
You know, it's, uh, and we've talked about that before, you know, like sometimes the

1202
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:23,340
cigars, it's like, well, I'd rather smoke this, that, and the other thing.

1203
01:10:23,340 --> 01:10:29,480
And it's like, yeah, but you know, if you've got a bunch of them and it's not a bad stick,

1204
01:10:29,480 --> 01:10:32,880
you know, sometimes you just, you want to smoke three quarters of a cigar and then put

1205
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:33,880
it out.

1206
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:34,880
You know, it's not a big deal.

1207
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:35,880
It's better than a Dark Shark.

1208
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:36,880
But-

1209
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:37,880
I don't know.

1210
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:38,880
I kind of like the Dark Shark.

1211
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:39,880
It's not bad.

1212
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:40,880
It's just not remarkable.

1213
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:41,880
Yeah.

1214
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:42,880
It's not overly remarkable.

1215
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:46,880
It's a perfectly serviceable cigar.

1216
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:48,080
Yeah.

1217
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:53,880
And the price on those was, was so good that, you know, maybe that colored a bit of the,

1218
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:55,600
uh, the thing.

1219
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,320
I liked my second one better than the first one.

1220
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:02,960
The first one, the first Dark Shark I smoked, I was not overly thrilled with.

1221
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,640
So I don't know if you smoked a second one yet or not.

1222
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:08,040
No, I'm saving them.

1223
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:13,120
Uh, wipe down with a little bit of tequila or something, you know.

1224
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:19,480
Oh, you should try just, you should try a second one straight, just as is, and see if

1225
01:11:19,480 --> 01:11:22,000
you have a different, different opinion about it.

1226
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:27,000
Um, cause the first time I smoked it, I was like, fuck what, like this is, and then the

1227
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,760
second one on the, on the show I smoked, I liked it better.

1228
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:31,760
Okay.

1229
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:36,320
So I don't know if it's like an acquired taste or, uh, if we were just, or if I was just

1230
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:40,240
overly harsh the first time I smoked it or I had different expectations.

1231
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,160
I, you know, I don't know.

1232
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:47,160
It's, uh, it's weird, but I'd recommend smoking a second one straight and then yeah, tequila

1233
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:48,160
for sure.

1234
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:52,200
Oh, I think that'd be phenomenal with tequila on it.

1235
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:55,600
This one would probably, uh, probably be really popping.

1236
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:56,600
Oh yeah.

1237
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,320
And this one we should do, we should do some of those.

1238
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,440
Season two, season two.

1239
01:12:01,440 --> 01:12:08,640
I think that, uh, the listeners by now I've learned that we are both fans of putting tequila

1240
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:09,640
on cigars.

1241
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,760
We're fans of putting tequila on a lot of things.

1242
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:14,240
Yeah, I guess so.

1243
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,320
Not a fan of drinking tequila really.

1244
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:19,320
No.

1245
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:23,000
But putting it on stuff, I guess.

1246
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:24,000
Yeah.

1247
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,960
I mean, you know, if, if, uh, Elizabeth shoe was there and pouring tequila over her naked

1248
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:34,600
body and I was Nick cage and a raging alcoholic, uh, I would probably look at offer as well.

1249
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:39,160
So a little leaving Las Vegas reference for, yeah, I did not get the reference.

1250
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:40,160
I'm not going to lie.

1251
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:45,640
I know you didn't, um, which is why I said, but, uh, one of, I don't, I don't know if

1252
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:50,600
I'd say a restrained Nick cage performance, but it's a Nick cage movie where he's not,

1253
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:53,680
um, absolutely batshit insane Nick cage.

1254
01:12:53,680 --> 01:13:01,760
So very kind of depressing movie, uh, basically he goes to Vegas to drink himself to death.

1255
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:04,760
That actually sounds like a Nick cage movie that I would like.

1256
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:09,800
And Elizabeth shoes, a prostitute that he somehow befriends in his drunken stupor.

1257
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:15,720
So it's not a movie for the faint of heart, but if you haven't seen it, I highly recommend

1258
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:16,720
it.

1259
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:17,720
Very interesting.

1260
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:24,000
Uh, uh, shitty movies a while ago.

1261
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:25,160
Yeah.

1262
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:29,200
Have you seen the new, uh, cowboy beep up the live action?

1263
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:30,200
I have not.

1264
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:31,600
I have heard bad things about it though.

1265
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:39,200
You know, I heard bad things and then I heard a couple of good things and I'm maybe two

1266
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:42,360
or three episodes in and I think it's pretty good.

1267
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:43,360
I have criticisms.

1268
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:44,920
Don't get me wrong.

1269
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:49,200
I know absolutely nothing about, I know nothing about that.

1270
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,240
Uh, that IP.

1271
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,960
So have you not watched the original?

1272
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:54,960
Nope.

1273
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:58,040
I have no exposure to how I be bop whatsoever.

1274
01:13:58,040 --> 01:13:59,040
Interesting.

1275
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:00,040
Okay.

1276
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:08,440
So I could, I could watch it and I would have no idea other than, uh, strictly and solely

1277
01:14:08,440 --> 01:14:12,440
on, you know, script writing, storytelling and moviemaking.

1278
01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:17,480
Like I would have a lot of it's copying the original if it was true to the, true to the

1279
01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:20,000
source material or not, I'd have no idea.

1280
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:26,080
A lot of it's just copying outright the original source, which is not a bad thing.

1281
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:31,160
But now I'd never seen the original 21 jump street and I quite enjoyed the first one,

1282
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:33,560
the movie, you know, 21 jump street.

1283
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:39,080
I didn't like the second one as much, the movie, but, uh, I never watched the second

1284
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:40,080
one.

1285
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:42,480
The first one I did and I never watched the original either.

1286
01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:44,640
And I thought it was perfectly adequate.

1287
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:45,640
Yeah.

1288
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,440
I mean, it was fine for what it was.

1289
01:14:48,440 --> 01:14:49,440
Right.

1290
01:14:49,440 --> 01:14:51,440
It's just popcorn bullshit.

1291
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:53,360
And that's fine.

1292
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:55,440
I am impressed though.

1293
01:14:55,440 --> 01:15:03,840
Like I say, I, I, I, uh, I also consume the negative press about cowboy bebop and I'm

1294
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:05,520
watching it myself.

1295
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,200
It's, it's good.

1296
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:09,200
It is.

1297
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,600
They did have a lot of the original themes.

1298
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:15,680
They did rehash a lot of the original storylines.

1299
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:20,680
They did, uh, um, three or four episodes in and they don't have all the original characters

1300
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:21,680
in it yet.

1301
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:28,200
I'm not sure if they will, but, uh, I don't know.

1302
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,240
It's not as bad as what the reviews were for sure.

1303
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:32,240
Yeah.

1304
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:40,600
Well, and nowadays it's very difficult because it's hard to tell who the reviewers are.

1305
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:41,600
Right.

1306
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:46,200
You know, and why they're reviewing it the way they are.

1307
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:48,600
So it's kind of tough.

1308
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:54,000
Um, I haven't, I haven't watched any of the rings of power yet, but I watched, um, a few

1309
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,120
more of the, uh, the critical drinker.

1310
01:15:56,120 --> 01:16:01,560
He's been kind of going through it and he was initially very concerned about the, the

1311
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:08,360
race and genders that they're kind of tossing in there for, you know, the message or the,

1312
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:14,080
uh, the reflecting of the world as it is today, that kind of stuff.

1313
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:22,680
And surprisingly, most of his, uh, more recent reviews really have nothing to do with race

1314
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:27,280
or gender and just shitty storytelling.

1315
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:34,080
But my brother who has read a lot of the middle earth books outside of the Lord of the rings

1316
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:38,000
and the hobbit, uh, says that he quite enjoys it so far.

1317
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,800
So I don't know.

1318
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:46,480
He doesn't have the same filmmaking background, uh, as I do and certainly doesn't watch the

1319
01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:49,040
same shitty movies that I do.

1320
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:51,040
Um, so I don't know.

1321
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:52,600
My brother recommended it to me.

1322
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,920
He thought it was really good, but he's never read Lord of the rings.

1323
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:58,480
He just watched the films.

1324
01:16:58,480 --> 01:17:02,680
And I, I don't, I'm not going to watch it unless we do it for the show.

1325
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:03,920
I'm not going to watch it.

1326
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:04,920
Yeah.

1327
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:08,520
I haven't, I haven't felt overly drawn to watching it.

1328
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:16,440
Um, mostly because of what I've seen about some of the character arcs and not even necessarily

1329
01:17:16,440 --> 01:17:20,480
in relation to the Tolkien stuff.

1330
01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:26,120
Just, just that the writing maybe isn't very good.

1331
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:33,000
So I'm not overly enthralled with watching yet another kind of bastardization of, of

1332
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:37,440
an intellectual property being destroyed by people that can't write.

1333
01:17:37,440 --> 01:17:38,440
Right.

1334
01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:42,520
I have no interest in watching a political message.

1335
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,560
Yeah, I get that at work.

1336
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:47,320
I think I said it on the show before.

1337
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:55,880
I'm not sure, but I was really interested in hearing the story of Kelliborne and Gilgallad

1338
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:57,840
and those guys.

1339
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,640
This is, should be their story.

1340
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:01,640
Yep.

1341
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:03,320
And it's not.

1342
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:04,320
No.

1343
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,960
And, uh, they even killed off Kelliborne, which is fucking ridiculous.

1344
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:08,960
Yeah.

1345
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:11,680
And, uh, I'm just not interested.

1346
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:14,400
Yeah, I'm not hugely interested in it.

1347
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:18,920
But I am interested in rereading The Hobbit and The Lore of the Rings because I haven't

1348
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,840
done that since probably college.

1349
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:25,960
And then I want to try The Similarion again.

1350
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:31,680
I tried that once and I couldn't really get through it, but I was a lot younger and it's

1351
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:38,280
a much different read than any of the other Middle Earth books that are more popular.

1352
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:43,800
So Sarah and I did that last year.

1353
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:48,920
In preparation for Rings of Power, we went through The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

1354
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:52,640
And she was really pissed off because she had never read them.

1355
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:57,600
And she actually got pretty upset about how they treated the hobbits in the movies.

1356
01:18:57,600 --> 01:18:58,920
Oh, okay.

1357
01:18:58,920 --> 01:18:59,920
Yeah.

1358
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:00,920
She wasn't a fan.

1359
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,200
She was like, well, these hobbits are like super competent people.

1360
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:09,520
And I'm like, yeah, The Lord of the Rings is a story about competent people doing things

1361
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,080
in a fantastic manner at times.

1362
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:23,280
But mostly it's just competent people trying to do their best and failing.

1363
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:25,280
And yeah, powering through.

1364
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:30,040
Kind of like a war story because it is a war story.

1365
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:33,720
For sure.

1366
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:35,560
My cigar is actually cached.

1367
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:37,680
About an inch and a quarter left.

1368
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:42,200
It went dead and I'm not going to revive it.

1369
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:43,200
Yep.

1370
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:48,880
I just tossed or flicked mine into my ashtray because I'm done.

1371
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:50,160
And mine went out too.

1372
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:51,160
So there we go.

1373
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:52,160
There we go.

1374
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:53,160
Not a bad cigar.

1375
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:54,160
Not bad.

1376
01:19:54,160 --> 01:20:00,360
It's a good stick as far as if you can get them on the cheap and you want to add bulk

1377
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:02,840
cigars that are better than a bin.

1378
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:03,840
Yeah.

1379
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:10,800
Although I feel though maybe that this one tasted better at the beginning and I feel

1380
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:14,840
maybe the Dark Shark is a little more consistent all the way through.

1381
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:15,840
Yeah.

1382
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:16,840
Oh yeah.

1383
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:17,840
Yep.

1384
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:19,640
I would agree with that.

1385
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:21,000
So I don't know.

1386
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:22,800
It just kind of depends.

1387
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:27,960
It's kind of like the Churchill style cigar.

1388
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:31,040
Starts off really good, it gets worse throughout.

1389
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:32,040
Yeah.

1390
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:33,600
Well, I mean, it was good.

1391
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:35,960
It was really good.

1392
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:39,080
Even a little past the halfway point.

1393
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:40,080
You know, I liked it.

1394
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:41,080
It was good.

1395
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:42,080
Yeah.

1396
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:44,520
It's not a bad cigar.

1397
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:50,200
It's just not something that I would recommend somebody buy at a shop.

1398
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:53,200
Yeah.

1399
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:57,880
If you're going to buy a CEO cigar, I would not buy the Xtree.

1400
01:20:57,880 --> 01:20:58,880
Yeah.

1401
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:03,040
If you're going to buy a CEO, boy, do we have some other recommendations for you.

1402
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:05,520
Yes, we do.

1403
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:07,960
And also go hunting.

1404
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:08,960
Yes.

1405
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:09,960
Or fishing.

1406
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:11,640
Or hunting.

1407
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:19,760
Because of the system, those of our listeners who do not have a permit to hunt, take the

1408
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:21,480
class.

1409
01:21:21,480 --> 01:21:24,680
Learn about guns.

1410
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:26,200
Hunting safety is important.

1411
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:28,160
I think everybody should do it.

1412
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:29,160
I think it's very important.

1413
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:32,000
I can't believe that they don't do it in schools.

1414
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,120
But yeah, go up there and-

1415
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:40,360
Take part in whatever production chain that you're not familiar with, but the product

1416
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:42,360
you consume.

1417
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:44,960
Right.

1418
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:54,520
I think we both agreed that it's beautiful and ugly to eat meat.

1419
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:56,080
So it goes.

1420
01:21:56,080 --> 01:21:58,560
So it goes.

1421
01:21:58,560 --> 01:21:59,560
Thanks for listening.

1422
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:02,200
Have fun.

1423
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:30,120
Be safe.