1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,460 Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Nate. 2 00:00:10,460 --> 00:00:11,460 And I am Mike. 3 00:00:11,460 --> 00:00:13,460 What are we smoking today, Nate? 4 00:00:13,460 --> 00:00:20,020 We are smoking a Pertagas black label, although the label has changed, as Mike informed me. 5 00:00:20,020 --> 00:00:22,380 Yes, yes it has. 6 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:31,960 It used to be a very simple label, and just said black label right on the bottom. 7 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:38,640 And this new one is very fancy, a very large red and gold and black label. 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,480 And the gold is like embossed, so it's actually like raised up. 9 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:46,520 Yes, very fancy label. 10 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:52,360 Since 1845 it says on that. 11 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,640 Yeah so we'll find out. 12 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,840 We'll find out if it's the same old cigar I remember. 13 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:05,400 They're good, I remember them being good. 14 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,360 Well very good air flow. 15 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,520 First few puffs, very tasty. 16 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:16,440 I do believe it's darker than the last two that we smoked. 17 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,600 Visibly significantly darker than the Macanudo. 18 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,360 This is a black cigar. 19 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:30,840 Not like black with the modern color black. 20 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,840 But speaking of dark, are we going to talk Animal Farm this episode? 21 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:36,520 We are. 22 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:37,520 We are. 23 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:44,240 I remember, I know when we initially talked about reading it, we both kind of remembered 24 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:55,360 the last couple sentences or paragraphs, but reading it again, all I have to say is like 25 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:04,320 Jesus Christ, dude. 26 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,680 You might not know the history. 27 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,440 I don't know the history as like a professor or anything, but the history of the Russian 28 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:17,440 Revolution is mimicked largely by the story of Animal Farm. 29 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:30,840 Where you have Lenin as a character and then you have Marx, his old major is Marx. 30 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:41,560 Then you have Lenin and Trotsky as Napoleon and Snowball. 31 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:47,360 Stalin doesn't really play that much of a role because that came later. 32 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:54,200 The book was published right as the end of World War II was coming to a close, so to 33 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:55,200 speak. 34 00:02:55,200 --> 00:03:02,880 It's funny because I always kind of remember it as being a book about communism kind of. 35 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:03,880 Yes. 36 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:16,560 But reading it again, it really, we talked in between episodes as we do that we both 37 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,000 kind of read it. 38 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,320 The last time we had both read this book was in high school. 39 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,320 Yes. 40 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:31,840 Let's start out by saying, and I'm an avid reader. 41 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:38,080 I love reading books and I read everything from fiction to nonfiction. 42 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,000 I don't really do like the historical fiction. 43 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,640 I don't do historical fiction. 44 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:45,640 I don't do romance. 45 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,840 Yeah, I don't do romance either. 46 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:58,960 I don't really like the mystery or crime or the spy thriller, even though I really enjoyed 47 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,760 James Bond as a kid. 48 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,520 I still enjoy James Bond to some extent, but mostly the older ones. 49 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,080 I like some of the Daniel Craig stuff, but it's just kind of nostalgic to go back and 50 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:17,360 watch Roger Moore or Sean Connery and even Pierce Brosnan, Timothy Dalton. 51 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:26,880 But I don't really like the whole spy thing, I guess, in books anyway. 52 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,080 I don't recall ever reading a spy book. 53 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,800 I do like detective books and mystery books. 54 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:32,800 Okay. 55 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,640 I'm a second-grade fan of Agatha Christie and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. 56 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,000 I'm a big Sherlock Holmes fan. 57 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,440 I read all of it. 58 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,320 I read the entirety of Sherlock Holmes sitting on a toilet. 59 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:47,320 Okay. 60 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,840 I bought the anthology with the two books set. 61 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:51,840 Oh, nice. 62 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:54,840 All of it sitting on a toilet. 63 00:04:54,840 --> 00:05:01,920 My dear Watson, I've never read Sherlock Holmes. 64 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:02,920 I might have some. 65 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,120 I've got a lot of books. 66 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:10,200 I've got a lot of books that were given to me by great aunts or aunts and things, and 67 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:11,200 I haven't. 68 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,960 There's so many books and there's so many movies. 69 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:17,800 I try and read as much as I can. 70 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,800 I love reading. 71 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:29,280 That's how I got through the high school era because I don't know. 72 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:34,240 I wasn't allowed to watch a lot of movies as a kid, but I could go and read. 73 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:41,720 I wasn't able to watch anything that was PG-13 or R, but I could go read The Stand. 74 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:48,440 There's a bit in The Stand where he masturbates and is talking about the dried semen on his 75 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:49,720 stomach. 76 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,080 My parents were like, oh yeah, The Stand. 77 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:52,080 It's great. 78 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,080 You should read it. 79 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,120 I'm like, okay, but they wouldn't let me watch Jaws. 80 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,560 I'm like, I don't know, man. 81 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,600 There's some kind of mismatch. 82 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,200 I could go to the school library and I could check out any book I wanted. 83 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,200 I read Gone with the Wind in middle school. 84 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,200 Sure. 85 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:07,400 I've never read The Stand. 86 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,200 I have it and I want to read it, but I haven't read it yet. 87 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:11,200 Yeah, you should. 88 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:18,320 It's unabridged or it's not like a director's cut, but you have to make sure you have the 89 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,800 full version of it because it was severely edited. 90 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:21,800 Okay. 91 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,320 That would be my thing. 92 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:34,320 The point I was trying to make is with all the books that I've read, to have last read 93 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:40,560 Animal Farm when I was in high school between 2000 and 2004, so we're almost 20 years later, 94 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:51,240 for me to still remember the big line, which is all animals are created equal, but some 95 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,380 are more equal than others. 96 00:06:53,380 --> 00:06:56,200 That was the big thing that I remembered from that book. 97 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,600 Still, to this day from high school. 98 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:05,480 In high school, unless you're a listener that's in high school, which you probably shouldn't 99 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:14,120 be listening to a cigar podcast in high school, but I'm not your parent, so you listen away. 100 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,000 That's saying something because in high school you thought you knew everything or I thought 101 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,240 I knew everything and I thought I was hot shit in the world of adults. 102 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,760 I definitely thought I knew more than I actually did. 103 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,760 Well, yeah, for sure. 104 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:32,560 But to have any book, say Animal Farm, what's it about? 105 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:37,480 Well, all animals are equal except some are more equal than others. 106 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:46,160 That's huge to have written a book that can still have an impact only having read it once. 107 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:55,240 But yeah, it was very interesting to read it again. 108 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:56,240 I agree. 109 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,640 I actually did not read it. 110 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,560 I listened to it via audiobook twice. 111 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,200 Yeah, you do a lot of audiobooks though. 112 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,480 I do mostly audiobooks because of my job. 113 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:09,480 Travel time. 114 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:10,480 Travel time, yeah. 115 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,120 But you know, like I said, it's a 90-some page book. 116 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:15,800 It's less than 100 pages. 117 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:21,600 It depends on the edition and the format, but it's less than 100 pages. 118 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:29,240 When I fired it up, I actually went and bought it, used, and then I found out it was like 119 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,800 99 cents on Kindle, so I just bought it on my Kindle so I could read it there. 120 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:38,640 But my Kindle, so I use the Kindle paperweight because I don't want all the distractions 121 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:39,640 when I read. 122 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:40,640 Those are nice. 123 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:41,640 I just want the book. 124 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:42,640 Sarah has one. 125 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:43,640 Yeah, I just want the book. 126 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:51,200 And so I was like, I could read it physically, but you know, my Sarah bought me the Kindle 127 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:52,520 quite a few years back now. 128 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:58,480 It's going to be aged out of the free 3G connection. 129 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,680 That's one of the first, I think it might be a second gen or something, and I think 130 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:03,440 they're probably on like 27 gen. 131 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,480 I don't know what, but you know, it's great. 132 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:08,480 I love it. 133 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:09,480 It's small. 134 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,520 You can have a crap ton of books. 135 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,360 I've downloaded a bunch of books and I've never hit the limit. 136 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:21,360 You can connect it with the library, the Hennepin County Library System, and you can rent for 137 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,640 free all of these books and you get them for like 30 days, right? 138 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,760 So you can get any book from the library on your Kindle. 139 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,160 So I just, I bought it for 99 cents and I have the physical copy now too, because I'm 140 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:38,080 kind of like, I'm kind of a dork. 141 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,080 I really enjoy having a library. 142 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:47,360 I've got, I don't know, four bookshelves down by my office area, just packed with books. 143 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,640 I just love like walking in and like looking at all the books. 144 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,680 Like that's my favorite thing. 145 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:59,760 And eventually when we get a bigger house, hopefully I can have like a library den where 146 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,360 I can sit there and I can smoke cigars in that room. 147 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,600 And I've got those like books and I've got the ladder, right? 148 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,920 The ladder that moves on the rails, the wheels. 149 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:08,920 Yeah, would be cool. 150 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:09,920 Fuck dude. 151 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:10,920 Like, that's amazing. 152 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:16,120 Like I love the library look and that's why I love like physical media, even for movies 153 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,120 and things. 154 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,680 Like I love, you know, like walk in and like just look. 155 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:24,640 Like we've got a pretty extensive vinyl collection and it's all laid out so you can like flip 156 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,320 through and everybody loves, like everybody I show our vinyl room to, they like, they 157 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,120 love just flipping through, just flipping through. 158 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,120 And you can't really do that. 159 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:38,560 I mean, you can digitally, but there's something like, to be said about the tactile, like you 160 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:39,920 could see it there. 161 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:40,920 Absolutely. 162 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:47,200 There is something about a library room if you have the space for it. 163 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,800 Or a vinyl, like a vinyl room or a vinyl wall. 164 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:57,760 Or like you guys have the vinyl area, you know, like you have like a piece of furniture 165 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,000 basically just for your record collection. 166 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,000 Yes. 167 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,800 It's very cool. 168 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,200 And I don't know if that's lost on people that are younger than us, but it's not lost 169 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,200 on us. 170 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:17,200 And I know that what I remember the propaganda when we were growing up was going to be all 171 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,920 these damn millennials, they'll kill off all these blah, blah, blah. 172 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,640 And it's like, well, not my house and not your house. 173 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:24,640 So yeah, I don't know. 174 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:30,120 I mean, CDs, like CDs are probably not ever going to come back. 175 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,120 You know, I still buy CDs. 176 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:41,320 When I buy an album, I buy the CD and then I always buy the version that has the digital 177 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:42,320 download. 178 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,040 And I have like Fear Inoculum, which is the last Tool album. 179 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:47,720 It's not even opened. 180 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:48,720 Never physically opened it. 181 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:49,720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 182 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,680 But I have it physically. 183 00:11:53,680 --> 00:12:00,600 And for me, like we've got, I don't know, man, I've got so many CDs, but there's just 184 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,680 something that there's something really nice about. 185 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:10,760 And this is what the older generation, this is what we should be connecting on is there's 186 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,880 just something really fucking great about grabbing a vinyl record, putting it on your 187 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:26,320 turntable and like dropping the needle like, I don't know, it's so different. 188 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:27,320 It's a nice feeling. 189 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:33,800 You know, the CD might have higher bit rate or whatever, but there's just something nice 190 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,520 and organic about the vinyl record. 191 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,640 Yes, we listened to vinyl this week, this last weekend. 192 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:42,640 Oh, nice. 193 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:43,640 Sarah and I did. 194 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:49,920 We just grabbed one of my favorite concept albums ever on vinyl. 195 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,400 And I'm so excited to listen to it. 196 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,400 What is it? 197 00:12:55,400 --> 00:13:00,000 Okay, so one of my favorite concept albums is, and this isn't the one that I got, so 198 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,280 I don't want everyone to get like all like worked up. 199 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:09,480 But one of my favorite concept albums is American Idiot by Green Day. 200 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,760 And if you don't know what a concept album is, it's basically a prevailing theme. 201 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:21,960 It doesn't have to necessarily be the story from A to B to Z, but it's like a theme. 202 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:28,320 But American Idiot by Green Day tells the story of Jimmy throughout the whole album. 203 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,500 It's a great concept record. 204 00:13:31,500 --> 00:13:38,300 But my favorite, one of my favorite concept records is by a punk band called Titus Andronicus. 205 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:40,360 And so they're named after a Shakespeare play. 206 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:45,960 So you can already tell that they're educated and a lot of their shit is going to be like, 207 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,440 you know, brainy. 208 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,240 And so they put out a concept album, and I think all they do is concept albums, but they 209 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:58,280 put out one called The Monitor and it's based off a Civil War submarine. 210 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:06,360 So you've got this whole punk rock album set in Civil War times, but to modern punk music 211 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:07,360 sounds. 212 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:08,680 It's really fucking weird. 213 00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:16,240 Like it's a fucking weird mix mismatch of Civil War things and then modern things, but 214 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,240 then Civil War things again. 215 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,240 It's wild. 216 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,560 It's an experience. 217 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,440 If you like pretty voices and things, it's not the album for you. 218 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,320 But you know, if you're actually you know what, this is something that I talked to with 219 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,980 my brother recently and to Sarah recently too is, you know, and this is a good question 220 00:14:39,980 --> 00:14:41,640 for you, Mike. 221 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:50,040 When you listen to music, do you first connect with the music and the harmonies and the melodies 222 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,560 or do you first connect with the lyrics? 223 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:54,920 Harmonies and sounds. 224 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,920 I'm 100% lyrics. 225 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:57,920 Really? 226 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,560 Like honestly, and I've told people listening like what? 227 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:02,560 Like what? 228 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,680 And I'm like, no man, like if it's a good lyric, I don't give two fucks what it sounds 229 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:07,920 like. 230 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,680 Like I'm there for the lyrics, like for the writing, for the composition, you know, for 231 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:12,680 like that. 232 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,840 If it's got great music behind it, even better. 233 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,560 But by and large, it's the lyrics for me. 234 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:32,240 So when I listen to old blues and old folk music and modern folk, it's the lyrics and 235 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,080 the music is almost irrelevant. 236 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:39,760 It's largely the poem, so to speak, of what they're saying. 237 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:45,840 And the music is kind of a backdrop because most of the time it's like a guy and a guitar. 238 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,240 And it's all about the lyrics. 239 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,160 And I listen to a lot of that music as well. 240 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,600 But like metal, it's all about the sound. 241 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:00,000 I couldn't tell you the words to many songs that I enjoy. 242 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,120 It's all about the music, you know, the instruments. 243 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:11,960 It reminds me of classical, the good metal is a lot like classical with the composition. 244 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:17,640 And I was trying to determine why I like lyrics so much. 245 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:27,400 And you know, I enjoy, you know, I don't know, maybe it's connecting with the author because 246 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,840 I was huge into reading and that was all I could do for a long time. 247 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:31,840 Sure. 248 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,000 Was reading. 249 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,320 And I love film. 250 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:44,000 And I almost wonder if I love film because I was denied a lot of films as a kid. 251 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,800 You know, yeah, we did. 252 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:54,160 And but I love connecting and hearing what they have to say like the message or their 253 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,440 struggle or their strife. 254 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,080 And sometimes it's not always apparent. 255 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,160 Like you can watch a movie and you can watch it at multiple levels. 256 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,560 Like you can watch it as pure entertainment. 257 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:10,400 You can watch it as a critique on modern society or you can watch it even as like what the 258 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:17,160 screenwriter or scriptwriter has gone is going through at that time. 259 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,960 You know, but for me, it's lyrics for sure. 260 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,760 I love great music. 261 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,000 Like there's a lot of instrumental stuff that I just I love because it's beautiful. 262 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,400 It's beautiful. 263 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:38,240 And instrumental stuff will also have you feel emotions and connect and everything. 264 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:39,760 And it's great when you can get both, right? 265 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:48,000 You can get the lyrics and the music and they both come together and it's amazing. 266 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,000 But that's not Animal Farm. 267 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,760 But Animal Farm is to that level though. 268 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:58,520 I mean, it's amazing because like you think about some of these great works of literature 269 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,640 and then you like that's a really short book like The Great Gatsby. 270 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,680 It's really fucking short. 271 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,560 Of Mice and Men is really fucking short. 272 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,440 The Old Man and the Sea is really short. 273 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:16,440 Animal Farm is really short, you know, but they're very pivotal. 274 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,880 They're they have a message. 275 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,480 It's very simple to understand and it's well done. 276 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,720 Yes, exactly. 277 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,680 And last episode we were talking about prey and how they could have made it a two and 278 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,320 a half hour long movie, but it would have been absolute shit. 279 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,000 And so they made it an hour and a half and it wasn't absolute shit. 280 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,920 It wasn't phenomenal, but you don't have to drag something out. 281 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,280 You don't have to give it more words than it needs. 282 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,280 Right. 283 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,760 The prey was good enough for what it was. 284 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:48,760 Yes. 285 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,240 Fantastic, but it was fun. 286 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,040 But Animal Farm, man. 287 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,320 It's truly great. 288 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,440 Mandatory reading, in my opinion. 289 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:11,160 Very few works of literature are that important or will happen to write to 1984 and Animal 290 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,160 Farm. 291 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,160 Animal Farm is obviously much more straightforward. 292 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:27,800 But the themes in it are very prescient to our society now, even 80 years later. 293 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,000 And you know what? 294 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:38,800 I think he did a great job of taking really complex themes and abstracting them through 295 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:45,880 animals to make it relatable. 296 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:54,480 I think if it were a story about humans versus humans, it would not have read the same. 297 00:19:54,480 --> 00:20:00,720 And it's very episodic too, which is nice because it's almost like a blueprint of red 298 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:01,720 flags. 299 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,320 Well, yeah. 300 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,320 Every little section is like a red flag, a red flag, and it's a progression. 301 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,000 It arcs back to the beginning of the story. 302 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,000 Yes. 303 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:19,520 Well, and so I don't know how you want to do this or how you want to dig into it. 304 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:27,640 But I guess I'll share my takeaways, which won't be all of them because even though it's 305 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,000 only 90-some pages long, there's a lot to unpack. 306 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,000 And that's what we said. 307 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,000 There's a lot there. 308 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,000 It's very dense. 309 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,000 Very dense. 310 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:44,960 I really liked that kind of the catalyst to the whole animal revolution, old major, died 311 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,240 before really anything happened. 312 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:48,240 Yes. 313 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,240 Right. 314 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:57,480 So he prophesized basically that the animals would revolt and then he died. 315 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:05,980 And then you had, it was Napoleon and Snowball, and Snowball was kind of more brainy. 316 00:21:05,980 --> 00:21:07,200 Initially, right? 317 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,720 Like he was, he was brainy but naive, we'll say. 318 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,060 Brainy, naive, but also corrupt. 319 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:18,560 He was also corrupt. 320 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,560 How was Snowball corrupt? 321 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:28,360 So when the animals first revolted, they had to go out and work the field because it was 322 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:31,400 right before the threshing, right? 323 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,400 Yes. 324 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:33,400 Yes. 325 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,640 So the cows needed to be milked. 326 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,720 So the pigs milked the cows. 327 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:46,880 Napoleon said, all right, animals, now we need to go and, you know, get this weed off 328 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,360 the field. 329 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,240 I will take care of the milk. 330 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:57,720 Next segment, Snowball went out and led them with their task. 331 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,680 Next segment, nobody knew what happened to the milk. 332 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,560 Next segment after that, you learn, oh, the milk was blended into the pig's food. 333 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:14,920 Snowball was a pig and Snowball certainly was partaking in that milk stealing. 334 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,160 And he said nothing. 335 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:25,120 So he was just as corrupt as all the other pigs in that instance, less so later. 336 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:31,760 But he was involved with the beginning of the downfall, just as much as the rest of 337 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:32,760 them. 338 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:33,760 Yes. 339 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,120 I suppose that's true. 340 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:39,120 Which is probably. 341 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:40,680 I think that's a very important thing. 342 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:46,120 I think it's a very important note because there was no leadership that was not corrupt 343 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:47,120 from the beginning. 344 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:48,440 And I would agree with you. 345 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,160 Other than old major. 346 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,200 Well, we don't know because he died. 347 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,240 We don't know if he was or wasn't corrupt. 348 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,680 Would he have been complacent with the milk incident? 349 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,000 Possibly. 350 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,640 Who knows? 351 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:03,640 That's the important part. 352 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,640 He wasn't there. 353 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:05,640 So yeah, he knows. 354 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:06,640 And that's what I'm saying. 355 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:15,480 And I think it was a great insight to Snowball because certainly like later on, Snowball, 356 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:22,640 if you have any empathy, it's kind of like he's he's run out of the farm and turned 357 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,420 into the patsy. 358 00:23:26,420 --> 00:23:34,200 And I guess like because he he kind of led the charge against the humans and Napoleon 359 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,040 really wasn't there. 360 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:44,600 And then Napoleon turned Snowball into like a war criminal and blamed everything on him. 361 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:54,040 But but then, like you said at the beginning, like Snowball was was a co-conspirator almost 362 00:23:54,040 --> 00:24:00,720 or very much so with the milking, even though he seemed to be working harder. 363 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,760 And the way that it was presented in the book is Snowball designed the plans for the windmill 364 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,560 and Napoleon came in and like pissed all over those plans. 365 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:17,680 And then after running Snowball out, built the windmill anyway, you know, so he took 366 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,520 Napoleon was the strong man that took over after he ran the brains out and they just 367 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,280 took all the ideas of the brains. 368 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,800 Yeah, but it's not like he was without fault. 369 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:27,800 Right? 370 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,600 Well, no, but Napoleon wasn't wasn't brainless. 371 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:37,640 So when I say Napoleon was, you know, the brains of the operation, he was the brains, 372 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:43,000 but he was naive because if he would have not been naive, Snowball was naive. 373 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,920 Yeah, Snowball was naive. 374 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,240 If Snowball would not have been naive, he never would have been run out by Napoleon. 375 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:50,240 Right. 376 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,240 So Napoleon had his own brains, but they were less mechanically minded and more politically 377 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,160 and crowd control minded. 378 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:04,440 And when Napoleon took those those puppies to train in private, like he made his own 379 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,440 Gestapo basically. 380 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,960 Well, he made his own police force. 381 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:17,400 I mean, we call them Gestapo, but in the context of I was looking at it, they teach it in schools 382 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,240 as a through the lens of that historical period because they can't criticize modern times. 383 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,240 But the story is very prescient for the moment. 384 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,160 Well, for sure. 385 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:34,200 Because the dogs are there to enforce the will of the leader, their personal leader, 386 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,200 Napoleon. 387 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:41,560 I will say you finish your Napoleon thought. 388 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,880 Oh, no, go ahead. 389 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:52,520 My favorite and this is some of the subtleties that either were one, you know, lost the time 390 00:25:52,520 --> 00:26:04,040 because it's been 20 years since I've read it or that I was not, I don't know, not worldly 391 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:10,600 enough to pick up on, we'll say when I initially read it was the commandments. 392 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:11,600 Right. 393 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,400 Seven commandments and only some of the animals could read. 394 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:16,400 OK. 395 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,080 And I think my favorite character was I was a Benjamin the donkey. 396 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,080 Benjamin the donkey. 397 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:28,240 Yeah, I think he's my favorite character of the whole book because it kind of like reflects 398 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,800 what I think about politics. 399 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:30,800 Right. 400 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,640 Like he goes, you know, donkeys a little long time and he wouldn't really like criticize 401 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,000 anybody whenever anybody would ask him. 402 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,120 He'd go like, you know, donkeys a little long time. 403 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:41,120 Everything's gonna be the same. 404 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:42,120 Doesn't matter. 405 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:44,240 Like, no, no, this is more specific. 406 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,240 It's important the wording. 407 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,000 So I listened to it twice. 408 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,440 OK, picked up the subtleties that I did the second time around. 409 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,000 He said specifically, donkeys a little long time. 410 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,280 None of you have ever lived long enough to see a donkey die. 411 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,280 Oh, perfect. 412 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,120 None of you have ever seen a donkey die before. 413 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:05,400 I think exactly what he said. 414 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,400 OK. 415 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:11,200 I remember that line from the book as you said it. 416 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:12,200 Right. 417 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,200 Like I remember that. 418 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,200 That's important. 419 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,200 That's very important. 420 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,200 Yes. 421 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,800 So the illusion is that he has already seen the animal farm revolution happen before. 422 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:20,800 Yes. 423 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,840 Because by the end, he said. 424 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,840 By the end, you realize. 425 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,840 You realize. 426 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:36,120 And so I think because of some of the topics that we've talked about on this podcast, especially 427 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:45,320 with, you know, Sakakawea, some of the flag stuff, you know, the Tessie Star flag and 428 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:54,480 Bessie Ross and how that some of those myths or urban legends have now become fact. 429 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:55,480 Yes. 430 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,160 Unless you dig deep enough. 431 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,440 So one of my favorite parts and I hated it. 432 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:03,440 Right. 433 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:04,440 Like I hated it. 434 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,240 I hated it. 435 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:12,960 But one of my favorite parts was when, you know, the pigs would do something and all 436 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:20,440 the animals would go and they'd be like, hey, is that I didn't feel like that was like in 437 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,120 the spirit of our revolution. 438 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:30,480 And the first time that it really, like, really struck, like really struck was when Napoleon 439 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,800 had all of those people executed. 440 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,480 The first time. 441 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:42,000 And all the animals were like, I don't know. 442 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,320 And they went back to the barn wall because they painted all the all the commandments 443 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,360 on the barn wall. 444 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:55,560 And one of them that couldn't read was like, hey, can you can you tell me like, what is 445 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,700 that commandment say again? 446 00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:02,700 And it was no animal shall kill another animal was the original commandment. 447 00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:08,880 But now it said no animal shall kill another animal without reason. 448 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,120 And then the other animal that couldn't read was like, oh, I guess I just remembered it 449 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,120 wrong. 450 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:21,640 You know, it's kind of the same thing is and you hear it all the time and you never really 451 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:22,640 think about it. 452 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:23,640 Right. 453 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,440 Like history is written by the winners. 454 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,320 Yes. 455 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:37,600 And just and I know like who designed the flag. 456 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,240 It's not important, really. 457 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:46,480 I mean, in the grand scheme of humanity, right. 458 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,680 It's not it's not a huge thing. 459 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,320 Like, it's still a big enough thing to where, you know, when you learn the true story, you're 460 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,120 kind of like you're miffed about it. 461 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,920 You're a little upset, but you're like, it's just a flag. 462 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:04,480 But then you think, well, OK, if they can do that with the flag design, and that's what's 463 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,200 taught in schools right now. 464 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,560 What else are they doing it about? 465 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,360 Right. 466 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,160 Everything else is what I'm going to guess. 467 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,680 No, I would agree with you. 468 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,280 100%. 469 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:28,000 But that was like that was huge for me to read as an adult, like as a child. 470 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,160 You're just like, oh, the animals are like lying to one another. 471 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:31,160 That's fine. 472 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,160 Like, whatever. 473 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:33,160 It's animals, you know. 474 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:38,720 But as an adult who's, you know, I don't know, been through the wringer or whatever you would 475 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:46,200 call it, just normal adulthood, you read that you read that as a 90 page book. 476 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:47,200 Right. 477 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,720 And they're the ruling class is changing the laws. 478 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:59,920 But nobody notices because none of the animals can read or only a select few of the animals 479 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,840 can read. 480 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,880 And the other thing, the other the other big takeaway, I mean, there's a lot of takeaways, 481 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:08,880 right? 482 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,920 Like, like you said, it's a dense book. 483 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,960 But the other thing I want to talk about real quick, and then we'll get into your thoughts. 484 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,960 Okay, absolutely. 485 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:18,960 And not to hijack it. 486 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,640 I don't I'm not trying to hijack it. 487 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:22,640 Like strong arm you. 488 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:27,360 But I just I have this train of thought and I just wanted to like get it out. 489 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:33,880 And then I'm very curious to hear your thoughts because your insights on Benjamin were great. 490 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,520 And I remember reading that line, but it didn't stick with me, you know, because I only read 491 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,520 it the once. 492 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:39,520 Right. 493 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,760 I actually slowed the I usually listen at 1.3 speed and I actually slowed it down to 494 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,160 normal speed because I wanted to hear it. 495 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,840 Yes, there's a lot of information. 496 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:56,120 Oh, there's so much so much constantly that you have to really pay if you read it. 497 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,160 Read it twice. 498 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,680 Yeah, it's quick read for sure. 499 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:09,000 It's an hour and a half basically is what is what the Kindle told me would take. 500 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,040 But the other thing the other thing that was huge to me, I mean, this is like the dogs 501 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:20,000 like him training the dogs, his police force, them changing the the commandments, you know, 502 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,080 and it goes it goes it gets progressively worse, you know, each each throughout the book, 503 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,280 like each commandment they change gets progressively worse. 504 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:36,000 But the other thing that really struck out stuck out to me was when I think it was squealer 505 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,520 because he's a little like fucking piggy that you you just fucking hate. 506 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:40,520 Right. 507 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,960 And he took all the sheep because the sheep were, you know, the sheep or the sheep, basically, 508 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:51,280 like there was a very it wasn't it wasn't it didn't feel like heavy handed in the book. 509 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,280 But when you when you try and like when I'm trying to articulate this to you now, the 510 00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:00,840 reason why we call people sheep, yes, followers is because of this book because of this book. 511 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:06,680 So it feels heavy handed trying to explain to you now, but in the book, it didn't feel 512 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:12,360 heavy handed, which I think is a testament to George. 513 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,400 But squealer took the the sheep and he took them for special training or something, right? 514 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,040 Because they used to say, you know, two legs bad, four legs good. 515 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,040 That was the whole thing. 516 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,600 And that was how they quieted dissent on the farm. 517 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,460 They use the sheep to quiet dissent. 518 00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:32,720 And it was always two legs bad, four legs good. 519 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,760 And that was their whole thing. 520 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,800 But then towards the end of the book, Squealer took them all aside and he took him for like, 521 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,280 I don't know, it was a day or two days. 522 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,280 It was I don't know. 523 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,280 It was a long period of time. 524 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:43,280 It was a week. 525 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:44,280 A week. 526 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:45,280 Yeah. 527 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:51,160 And when they came under the guise of pruning, special pruning that needed to be done on 528 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,920 the far side of the farm away from everybody else. 529 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,080 Yes, it was farm work that had to be done. 530 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,900 But it wasn't it was brainwashing, extra brainwashing. 531 00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:06,000 Because when they came back, they didn't say two legs bad, four legs good. 532 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,680 They said, what do they say? 533 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,280 They said, four legs good, two legs better. 534 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,100 Yes, that is exactly what they said. 535 00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:18,240 Because the pigs were all learning to walk on two legs so they can negotiate with the 536 00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:20,240 other humans. 537 00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:24,180 Which brings us to the conclusion of the book, when the animals looked in the window and 538 00:34:24,180 --> 00:34:29,120 could not distinguish the pigs from the men. 539 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:38,080 But that was, you know what, that was huge because you can see it going on today. 540 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,280 And it doesn't matter which side you're on. 541 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:47,200 But if you're watching your favorite news media on TV, right, it's going to be three 542 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,360 letters either way. 543 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:54,880 Okay, Fox or CNN. 544 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:55,880 That's what they're doing. 545 00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:02,920 They're teaching you to be the sheep for that side. 546 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:09,960 And but nobody but they don't realize it and the sheep never realized it. 547 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,960 I don't think. 548 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,120 They're too stupid to understand what was going on. 549 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,000 Yeah. 550 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,000 And I know we want to talk about boxer. 551 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,000 We're going to talk about box. 552 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,880 But I just wanted to get my initial thoughts of like the big takeaways, the big takeaways. 553 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,160 I mean, there's a lot there. 554 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,680 And even just talking about it with you. 555 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:29,680 Very nuanced. 556 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:30,680 Yes. 557 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,240 Incredibly nuanced. 558 00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:38,240 And just talking about it with you and having you bring some things that I like I read and 559 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:41,000 I remember reading them. 560 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,720 But I didn't like hit as hard as it hit for you. 561 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:44,720 Like, all right, that's the whole point. 562 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:52,360 Like to read a book and to read it with somebody else, everybody else has a different viewpoint 563 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,800 or different lens that they're looking at it through. 564 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:04,560 Even if you still get the same major message, there's still some like finesse in there. 565 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,320 So it's great to read something. 566 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,560 Read something at the same time somebody else's and then talking about it later. 567 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,400 Well, that's the popularity of book clubs. 568 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:15,400 Well, yes. 569 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:16,400 Nuts. 570 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,680 I mean, you had a college book club and I had a college book club, too. 571 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,320 And it wasn't like an official book club. 572 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:28,080 It was just like, no, a bunch of friends that were saying, we're all going to read this 573 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,560 and we're not going to talk about it until everybody finishes. 574 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,960 And after this, we're going to read this, you know, and then we're going to bullshit 575 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,720 and have a discussion about it when we're all done. 576 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:41,680 And I like that. 577 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,200 Oh, it's great. 578 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,320 Let's hear your thoughts. 579 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:48,520 We can do more of that. 580 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:49,800 We should do more of this. 581 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:50,800 Mike. 582 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,120 Yes, I agree. 583 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,080 I enjoy these episodes tremendously. 584 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,800 First of all, I'm over halfway done with the cigar. 585 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,200 Oh, yeah, me too. 586 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:02,920 It is a one note cigar. 587 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:03,920 It is a good note. 588 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,280 It is dark and it is sweet. 589 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:06,920 It's a good note. 590 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:07,920 Yes. 591 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,080 Very pleasant smoking, which is what I remember the original one being too. 592 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,800 Very good. 593 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,840 For my speed, the Macanudo was also very good. 594 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:17,840 It was very good. 595 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,480 I would say like if you like a lighter cigar, the Macanudo. 596 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,440 If you like a darker cigar, this one. 597 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,920 But they're both very similar. 598 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:31,800 They're similar in the fact that the tobacco is very good, very consistent throughout. 599 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,040 Probably takes a lot of effort to make a cigar that is consistent throughout, as consistent 600 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,040 as this. 601 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,000 I would believe that to be true. 602 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,000 Yes. 603 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,000 Yeah. 604 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,000 And I like dark and sweet cigars. 605 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,000 That's my sucker spot. 606 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,680 And do you like dark and sweet other things? 607 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,680 But we'll get into that later. 608 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,760 So I was going to go back to when they started changing the Commandments. 609 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,760 Yes. 610 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:02,560 So it was important that the second horse, not Boxer. 611 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,880 Now I can't remember her name. 612 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:05,880 Clover. 613 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:06,880 Clover. 614 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,640 She was the one that knew something had changed. 615 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,560 She was the only one that recognized it. 616 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,160 Because she could read more. 617 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,280 Boxer could only read, I don't know, the first six letters of the alphabet or something. 618 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,280 Yes. 619 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,960 He could read A through D. By the time that he learned E through F, he had forgotten A 620 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:24,960 through D again. 621 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,960 Yes, precisely. 622 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,720 So he had to restart reading. 623 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:33,040 But Clover, she knew all the letters and she had a good memory, but she wasn't smart enough 624 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,560 to memorize it. 625 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,600 So she asked Muriel the goat to come and read it. 626 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,760 And Muriel the goat was smart enough to read all the letters. 627 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,800 And the first read through I was like, is Muriel a conspirator? 628 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,640 Second read through, no, she wasn't. 629 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,680 She was smart enough to be able to read them all. 630 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,840 She's not smart enough to remember. 631 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:51,840 Clover could remember. 632 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,760 Muriel could not remember, but she could read it out loud. 633 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:56,760 Yes. 634 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:03,880 But Clover didn't have the confidence, right? 635 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:04,880 Because that was always the thing. 636 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,080 She would go, that's not how I remembered it. 637 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,360 But if that's what's written, it must be true. 638 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:10,360 Right. 639 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:11,360 Oh, yeah. 640 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,960 And the first animal slaughter, she's the one that raised hell. 641 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:20,760 Boxer who couldn't read, who was also the work, like literally the workhorse of the 642 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,000 farm, was like, you're right. 643 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:30,280 They did this wrong and they attacked him, but he was too strong for them to overcome. 644 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,360 So they had to let it go. 645 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:40,080 They had to let him go because he could not be beaten by the dogs. 646 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,640 Well yeah, so that was very, I found that moment to be interesting because Boxer did 647 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,480 all the work for everyone. 648 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:48,480 Oh yeah. 649 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:54,600 His motto was, the Napoleon is always right and work harder, which is what they want, 650 00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:01,120 what they, being the people who run the society in Animal Farm, what they wanted everybody 651 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,480 to say was the leader is always right. 652 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,480 Yes. 653 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,480 The answer to all things is to work harder. 654 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,680 I can give more. 655 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:16,760 And that was the saddest part was he was so close to retirement, quote unquote, because 656 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:23,080 no animal ever retired on Animal Farm, but he thought he was close to retirement. 657 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:30,880 And his only concern was that they had enough stone to finish the windmill. 658 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,080 Yes. 659 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:40,760 And he used to wake up a half hour early to go haul stone and work. 660 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,640 And then he started waking up 45 minutes early. 661 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,800 And then I think by the end he was waking up a full hour early for his shift. 662 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:57,120 And one of the sentences I remember, and he wrote it several times was, you know, the 663 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:04,320 animals weren't sure if it was better or worse than under Jones, but they always felt like 664 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,120 it was better because they were no longer slaves. 665 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,120 Right. 666 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,520 Except, you know, except of course the unwritten thing was, except they were. 667 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:12,520 Right. 668 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,960 Except they were worse. 669 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,120 By the end they reveal that, of course. 670 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,960 Well yes, of course. 671 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,040 But as a writer, you're not going to say, except they were, because that's super heavy 672 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,040 handed. 673 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:29,780 Right. And that book is a master class of nuance, I think. 674 00:41:29,780 --> 00:41:34,240 If you're interested in writing or telling a story, this is one of those books that you 675 00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:42,240 read and you're like, look, Georgia Orwell didn't give you any extra fluff. 676 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,040 This is boiled down condensed. 677 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,440 Oh, there's a reason why it took him two years to write. 678 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,120 Full of nuance though. 679 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:50,120 You know. 680 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,920 It was masterfully written. 681 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,680 Writing more than you need. 682 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:55,880 Yes. 683 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,120 No more detail is necessary. 684 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:06,000 And it's great because this is a time before the audiences were too dumb to pick up on 685 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,000 things. 686 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,000 Right. 687 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,680 You know what I mean? 688 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,000 And to be fair to the audiences, I don't think the audiences nowadays are too dumb to pick 689 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,180 up on things. 690 00:42:16,180 --> 00:42:25,800 I just think that most writers and creators of content, whether it's Hollywood or your 691 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:32,440 best seller, you know, New York Times best seller list or whatever, they just believe 692 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,280 you're too dumb and nobody's calling them out on it. 693 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:40,560 Just like the animals weren't calling out the pigs for, and one of the greatest things 694 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:47,320 ever was when the pigs discovered the whiskey, right? 695 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,560 And then Squealer's like, Napoleon's going to die. 696 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,400 Well, he was just hung over. 697 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,400 Right? 698 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,400 Like we've all almost been dying because of drinking too much. 699 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,160 You definitely feel like it. 700 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:00,160 Yes. 701 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:06,080 But it was hilarious as an adult who has felt that way at least once in my life. 702 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,480 I'm not going to give you an exact number, but at least once we'll leave it at that. 703 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:16,760 But like how, but it's fucking funny as an adult. 704 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,720 Like as a kid, you're never going to pick up on that. 705 00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:21,560 Like, oh, we think Napoleon's going to die soon. 706 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,800 And all the animals like, well, what's going to happen if we lose our leader? 707 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,440 But then you realize like he was just hung over. 708 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,440 Right? 709 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,620 Oh yeah. 710 00:43:30,620 --> 00:43:35,320 So it's like, it's fucking funny, but it's also like super sad. 711 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:36,320 Right. 712 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:43,320 And on a second reading, that whole, the whole series of events that led up to them finding 713 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:51,560 a whiskey cask or a box of whiskey was when they traded the wood pile for money and they 714 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,640 claimed the money was fake. 715 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,600 So they couldn't use it to finish building the windmill. 716 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:04,120 But then magically they find a box of whiskey the next day. 717 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,120 Right? 718 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:12,520 Well, so, and I was like, ah, so they might've found a box of whiskey or they might've spent 719 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,360 the money they use selling the wood pile to buy whiskey. 720 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,680 But now I might remember, I might be remembering this differently. 721 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:28,440 So I might be boxer or clover here when I say this, but I feel like they found the whiskey 722 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:29,440 first. 723 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:30,440 No, no, no, no. 724 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:31,440 They just found the whiskey. 725 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,440 No, no, no, no. 726 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,160 I'm saying I might be boxer or I might be clover. 727 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,160 Oh, I see. 728 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,160 I see. 729 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:40,160 Yes. 730 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:41,160 Yes. 731 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,240 But I feel like the pigs found the whiskey first, then sold the wood pile and bought 732 00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,240 more whiskey with it. 733 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:49,440 They did buy more whiskey later. 734 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:50,560 Yes. 735 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,840 But I wasn't sure if it was from the wood pile or not. 736 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:58,280 Cause the wood pile thing kind of took forever, which is weird to say in a 90 page book. 737 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,400 But like, you know, but that was the whole point. 738 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,320 Like he was like, they were drawing that out. 739 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:09,520 And it was like, it was, I wasn't annoyed by it because it was, it was great. 740 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,800 It was, it was exactly what would actually happen. 741 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:19,000 But when they were trying to choose between the two farms to sell the wood pile to, right? 742 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:24,880 Like it's like, as an adult, it's like, who fucking cares? 743 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,240 Just list that shit on Craigslist, get your money and call it good. 744 00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:32,160 Like you're not actually like, you're not like condoning one farmer over the other or, 745 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:33,160 you know. 746 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:38,200 So that was kind of a commentary at the time with the Soviet Union and like the fascists 747 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,280 and the free world. 748 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,640 They switched allegiances several times before World War II. 749 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:44,640 And I understand that. 750 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,720 And I understand that in the book. 751 00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:49,960 And so what I'm saying, like it took forever. 752 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:55,200 I mean, it's a 90 page book, so it didn't take forever, right? 753 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,060 And it was, but it was a big contention point on the farm. 754 00:45:59,060 --> 00:46:06,080 And I think it was a big contention point because I feel like Napoleon was testing the 755 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:11,040 waters of how much he could get away with, with his populace. 756 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,040 Sure. 757 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,040 You know. 758 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:21,120 To draw a modern parallel, it's kind of like China, Russia, who's the bad guy? 759 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:26,320 Well friends with them one day, where any of these next day, the leader of one country 760 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:32,480 is like the greatest evil of all time, but George Bush was best buddies with the leader 761 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:33,840 of one of these countries. 762 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,000 We're not going to say which ha ha ha ha. 763 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,600 You know, it goes back. 764 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,240 Oh, he's truly a good man. 765 00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:40,240 I can see it in his eyes. 766 00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:43,240 You know, I know, but that's the whole point. 767 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:46,240 It's a switching back and forth of allegiances for no reason. 768 00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:47,240 Exactly. 769 00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:48,240 Because there is no issue. 770 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,360 Behind the scenes is the insinuation. 771 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,360 Well, and that's why the book is so great. 772 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,600 And I don't know how he, I don't know how. 773 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,000 Like, like, I don't know how. 774 00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,000 Um, 775 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,960 Well, that's because we're more politically aware and we're older. 776 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,720 And context that you're picking up on it. 777 00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:11,200 What I'm saying is, I don't know how he did it in 90 pages. 778 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,200 Like master writer. 779 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,320 No, that's what I'm saying. 780 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:20,200 Like, I'm like, seriously, like, you'll beyond anything that I have, like phenomenal. 781 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,360 That's what I'm saying. 782 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,920 Like more skilled at writing than I will ever be at anything for sure. 783 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:27,920 Except bowling maybe. 784 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,960 But no, no, no, he's a way better writer than I'll ever be a bowler. 785 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:37,280 But you know, but that's what I'm saying is like, like it's, it's, it's, it's almost 786 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:38,760 mind boggling. 787 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:39,760 Right. 788 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:44,760 Uh, to be sitting here talking about a 90 page book. 789 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:54,360 But all of the stuff he fit into it without beating you over the head with it. 790 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,360 Right. 791 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,040 And my book had a forward to it. 792 00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,720 I'm not sure if yours did. 793 00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:03,640 No, my forward is written in the 1950s and I listened to it the first time. 794 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,720 I skipped it the second time. 795 00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:11,440 And in the forward, one thing stood out was this is either going to be a lesson to keep 796 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:19,960 people free or it in afterthought will be a blueprint of how their society fell. 797 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:21,600 More or less was the summation. 798 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,800 Well, and that's, that's always kind of how it is. 799 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:25,800 Right. 800 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:31,800 And it's like, wow, it's like I say, it's kind of like 1984, which we could read 1984 801 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,680 next or at some point, because I, I read it, I've read that twice and I read it on my own 802 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,000 in college when I was college age. 803 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,120 I read that one in college. 804 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,760 I really enjoyed it. 805 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,360 And you know what else I really enjoyed? 806 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,880 But I can't remember much about it as a brave new world. 807 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:49,880 I read brave new world. 808 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:50,880 I read that recently. 809 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:58,040 Oh, and I thought it was, it's one of those things where it's so on the nose now that 810 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,640 I didn't think it was that good, but I understand that it was really good. 811 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:02,640 You know what I mean? 812 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:03,640 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 813 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:09,000 And I don't know that I would, I would like, I remember enjoying it, but I don't know if 814 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:15,200 I would say that I enjoyed it as much as 84 or animal farm. 815 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:16,200 It's not as good. 816 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,200 I don't think. 817 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,200 You know what? 818 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,880 It's still good. 819 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:21,880 Here's one. 820 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:31,360 And we're still going to talk about animal farm because even though it's 90 pages, absolute 821 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:38,960 masterclass in writing, not being heavy handed, letting your reader come to their own conclusion 822 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:46,800 is, I mean, really, like you could read it and not get what we got out of it. 823 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,640 And you could get a little story about animals on a farm. 824 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:50,640 You know, you could. 825 00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:57,000 I'd probably think you were fairly dense if that's all you got out of it, but you, I mean, 826 00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,000 you certainly could. 827 00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:07,160 But one of my favorite books of all time, all time, one of my favorite, absolute favorite, 828 00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,440 Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut. 829 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,040 Never read it. 830 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:12,440 That's the next one we're going to read. 831 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:13,440 That's the next one we're going to read. 832 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,200 That'll work for me. 833 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,280 It is so good. 834 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,440 Have you read any Kurt Vonnegut before? 835 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:20,440 No. 836 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,400 Oh my goodness. 837 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,420 You're going to love Kurt Vonnegut. 838 00:50:26,420 --> 00:50:27,880 Have you read any Mark Twain? 839 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:28,880 Yes. 840 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:29,880 Of course. 841 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:30,880 Okay. 842 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,880 If you love Mark Twain, no, no, no. 843 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:33,880 Yeah. 844 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,720 So it's kind of the, almost the same like irreverence that Mark Twain has. 845 00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:42,600 I mean, he's like, he's very like, you wouldn't like, I don't know. 846 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:49,280 I don't know if you'd ever think like Mark Twain was, you know, necessarily irreverent, 847 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,200 but he certainly got his own like distinct voice. 848 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,200 Oh yes, he's irreverent for sure. 849 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,200 Given the time. 850 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,200 Purposefully so. 851 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:56,200 Oh yeah. 852 00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:01,560 It's the same with Kurt Vonnegut. 853 00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,880 My favorite, I've read a lot of his books. 854 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,400 Fucking love Kurt Vonnegut. 855 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,480 But Slaughterhouse Five, one of my all time favorite books ever. 856 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:20,040 I would read that before reading a lot of things actually. 857 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:26,560 I'm a big fan of, oh, well come on now. 858 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,880 I actually have the anniversary special edition of it. 859 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,520 Boy's on an Island, Get Left Alone on an Island, Golding. 860 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,720 What the hell is that book called? 861 00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:38,880 Are you talking about the Lord of the Flies? 862 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:39,880 Lord of the Flies. 863 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:40,880 Yeah. 864 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:41,880 Okay. 865 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:42,880 Lord of the Flies. 866 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,880 It's been a hot minute since I read that too. 867 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,440 Oh me also, me also. 868 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:53,680 I think we should do Slaughterhouse Five and then we'll do Lord of the Flies. 869 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,680 Sounds good to me. 870 00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,720 Fuck I love Vonnegut. 871 00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:00,720 He's so good. 872 00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:01,720 He's so good. 873 00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:04,920 I've had a few people say that Kurt Vonnegut is quite good. 874 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,200 That I've known over the years. 875 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,880 But I just never made it around, you know what I mean? 876 00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:11,880 Made it around to it. 877 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,440 I'm busy reading Dune and things like that. 878 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:15,440 Yeah. 879 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,800 And I'm on Heretics of Dune and I've still got what, like three or four books left in 880 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:25,360 the original like series and then all the supplementary novels. 881 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:32,720 So, I made a little like brief pause on the Dune to read Animal Farm, which you know only 882 00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:35,800 took me an hour, hour and a half, whatever. 883 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:43,360 But I think Kurt Vonnegut is one of those ones and I don't, you know, I don't know. 884 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,480 Maybe Slaughterhouse Five is his most accessible. 885 00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:54,880 I don't know if it's the one he's most well known for, but it's certainly my favorite 886 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:56,680 of all of his. 887 00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:04,280 There's a lot of Kurt Vonnegut that I absolutely love and there's none of it that I dislike. 888 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:12,120 There's some that are more, that resonate more than others, I suppose. 889 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,160 He has, I can't remember which book it is. 890 00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,280 He'll sometimes put himself in his own books. 891 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:22,760 So he's kind of like, I don't know if he was the first one to break the fourth wall, but 892 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:29,200 he does, he does, he does, he's not, but he does from time to time. 893 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,040 Not very often though. 894 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:40,440 Very rarely he does that, but he, he invents this religion called the Church of Jesus Christ 895 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:41,440 the Missing. 896 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:42,440 Okay. 897 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:43,440 Okay. 898 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,600 So they believe that Jesus Christ never died and he's still here. 899 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:48,600 He's with us. 900 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,240 He's right here, but he's missing. 901 00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:55,920 And so this whole, this whole church's premise is they look underneath their dinner plates, 902 00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,200 they look behind curtains. 903 00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:59,440 They look everywhere for Jesus. 904 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,560 You know, they're always looking, they're always looking, they flipping things upside 905 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:07,400 down, they're looking, looking for Jesus, which is hilarious. 906 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:15,380 I mean, it's a whole critique on a lot of things, but like it's, it's fucking hilarious. 907 00:54:15,380 --> 00:54:22,880 And Slaughterhouse-Five is a semi-autobiographical account because he was a prisoner of war in 908 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:23,880 World War II. 909 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:24,880 Oh, okay. 910 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:32,520 So it's very, I don't know, I don't want to like give you too much to go on. 911 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:33,720 Sure. 912 00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:39,080 Other than if you were to ask me what my favorite Kurt Vonnegut book is, I would say Slaughterhouse-Five 913 00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:40,080 all day long. 914 00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:41,080 Sure. 915 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:49,120 And, you know, if you were to ask me to list off like my top 10 books, Slaughterhouse-Five 916 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:50,120 is somewhere in there. 917 00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,320 I don't know what level it's at, but it's, it's one of those. 918 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:59,480 It might be top 10, might be top five. 919 00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:07,360 Kurt Vonnegut, my middle brother, who's three years younger than I am, and myself, we've 920 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:13,080 kind of banned, we've banned ourselves from reading Kurt Vonnegut in public. 921 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:24,980 Because, because Kurt Vonnegut is a very interesting character and he can really hit you deep and 922 00:55:24,980 --> 00:55:26,880 make you very, very sad. 923 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:27,880 Okay. 924 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:39,960 But he can also make you laugh uncontrollably and it's that second part, which is the reason 925 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:41,960 we won't read him in public. 926 00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:46,800 Because you can be reading a Kurt Vonnegut book and you can feel like you're down on 927 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,920 the ropes and you're about to, you know, like lose the fight. 928 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:56,560 And all of a sudden he hits you with something that's like the absolute funniest thing that 929 00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,840 you've ever possibly read in your entire life. 930 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,480 And you have no choice. 931 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,160 Like it's an uncontrollable human urge. 932 00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:12,440 As you just laugh like a moron in public. 933 00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,360 He's very nuanced in that way. 934 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:22,640 Like he can, he can write the ultimate sadness and then something hilarious, the next sentence. 935 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:27,760 I think it's very phenomenal. 936 00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,320 But this isn't about Kurt Vonnegut. 937 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:30,800 We're talking about Animal Farm. 938 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,760 Yes, we are. 939 00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:41,240 But it's great how like, but I'll say, you know, what is good authors make you think 940 00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:43,280 about other good authors? 941 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:44,280 Right. 942 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:45,280 Yeah. 943 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:54,920 And George Orwell is, I mean, there's a reason why I would say every educated person in the 944 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,000 English speaking world has heard of George Orwell. 945 00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,760 Yes, for sure. 946 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,760 For one work or another. 947 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,120 From one method or another. 948 00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,720 It's Edward R. Lexicon. 949 00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:16,120 I even used, this is back in my days of union work, quote unquote. 950 00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,960 I accused one of our bosses of speaking doublespeak. 951 00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:19,960 Yes. 952 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,080 In an open air meeting. 953 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,560 Shocking, I know. 954 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,520 And then one of the guys that I knew came back later and said, I don't know if those 955 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,440 guys know what you mean when you said doublespeak. 956 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,800 And I'm like, we should all know what doublespeak is. 957 00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,480 We should. 958 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:36,480 We should all know. 959 00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,160 But the fact of the matter is most of us don't. 960 00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:42,160 We should all recognize it as well. 961 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,560 You know, but no, it's incredible. 962 00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,800 And this, well, we talked about it. 963 00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,320 Don't be a boxer, be a Benjamin. 964 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:51,320 Yeah. 965 00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,000 Well, let's talk about boxer for a little bit. 966 00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:59,120 I mean, we talked a little bit about him being the workhorse or the only worker of the farm. 967 00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,440 Side note, I am damn near done with my cigar. 968 00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:09,360 I am three inches away. 969 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:10,600 Three inches away? 970 00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:11,880 I am nubbing right now. 971 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:13,520 Dude, man, I'm so sorry. 972 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,480 I was very excited. 973 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,800 Mine's still letting going, but I was very excited about Kerr finding it. 974 00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,200 Oh, this is, oh no, I completely understand. 975 00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:27,480 I will grab a smaller little Excalibur to finish off the episode. 976 00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:31,680 That is perfectly okay with me because they're quite good. 977 00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:36,720 Those are kind of like my little holdover cigars when we go past on these episodes. 978 00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:37,720 And they're right here in the room. 979 00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:38,720 So no issue. 980 00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:42,240 Well, I guess there we go. 981 00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:43,760 I am done. 982 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,520 It was the same note for me the whole way through. 983 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,160 It is burning my fingers hot. 984 00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:53,880 I even put it down a couple of times to cool it down, to get me to smoke it because it 985 00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,520 did get quite hot. 986 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,600 The oil made it burn a little unevenly, but not too bad. 987 00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:01,600 Okay. 988 00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:02,600 It's burning pretty decent. 989 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:06,560 I put mine down the whole time I was talking about Kerr finding it. 990 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:11,640 So it lasts like 15 minutes, but it's still lit and it's still going strong. 991 00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:12,640 Sure. 992 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,280 I'm pumping on it and there's less than an inch left and it still tastes the same as 993 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:17,280 it did. 994 00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:18,280 Yeah. 995 00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:19,280 It's been good. 996 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:20,880 It's been good. 997 00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,960 It's incredible when they do this. 998 00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,820 We do criticize it sometimes a little too harshly when it's the same. 999 00:59:25,820 --> 00:59:30,840 It does take quite a bit of talent to make a consistent flavor through it. 1000 00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,480 I wouldn't say that we criticize it overly. 1001 00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:40,520 I would say that through smoking as many cigars as we have smoked, even just on this podcast, 1002 00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:46,760 I mean, we've smoked more than on the podcast here, but with what we've smoked, you and 1003 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:54,640 I have come to the conclusion that we usually enjoy the flavor changes more than we enjoy 1004 00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:55,640 the one notes. 1005 00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:56,640 Yes. 1006 00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:02,680 The same thing with beer is I've heard it's very complicated to make a light beer consistently. 1007 01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:07,120 Like it's almost more complicated to make a light beer consistently than it is to make 1008 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,320 an IPA consistently. 1009 01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:17,600 So the craftsmanship in a light beer is perhaps higher than that of an IPA. 1010 01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:18,600 Sure. 1011 01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:26,040 It's kind of like making a machine or something that does work and making it look like it 1012 01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,960 doesn't have enough parts to actually run. 1013 01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:29,960 Yes. 1014 01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:30,960 That's a thing. 1015 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:38,600 So we're not criticizing the craftsmanship or the skill that goes into these one notes. 1016 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:45,200 We're just saying our personal preferences are the flavor changes. 1017 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,320 A purposeful and consistent flavor change. 1018 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:49,320 Yes. 1019 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:54,720 Not like a swisher sweet turns from great flavor to sour. 1020 01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:58,200 From worse to worser. 1021 01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:02,880 But the one notes, there's a lot to be said for that. 1022 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:08,200 If you want a consistent smoke, this is a great one. 1023 01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:16,480 And the mac and noodle, also a great one. 1024 01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,560 Also the one note edges were quite good. 1025 01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:21,960 We're not naysaying on these. 1026 01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:31,600 We're just saying our personal preferences are we would much more enjoy a flavor change. 1027 01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,160 But maybe a flavor change, and I don't know, we'd have to look into it. 1028 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,440 Maybe a flavor change is easier to do than it is to keep something consistent for a full 1029 01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:39,840 stick. 1030 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:40,840 It might be. 1031 01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:41,840 But it doesn't matter. 1032 01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,280 I'm saying that this is a great cigar. 1033 01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:55,720 A series of cigars that Nate and I both tried and had mixed results were the Gurkas. 1034 01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:02,480 Very few Gurkas that I've had were good before the first half of the cigar. 1035 01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:04,240 And that's not a good flavor change. 1036 01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:09,320 So it's not a criticism of the cigar to say that it's one note. 1037 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:10,320 If they know it is good. 1038 01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:11,680 Oh, absolutely not. 1039 01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:17,040 I think if you can make a cigar that tastes good at the beginning and good at the middle 1040 01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:21,920 and good at the end, that's a win. 1041 01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,440 Is it one that I'm going to constantly go back to? 1042 01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:25,440 You know, maybe not. 1043 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,960 It depends, you know. 1044 01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:33,920 Especially since doing this podcast and talking to other people about cigars, it's interesting 1045 01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:38,320 because the more you know about cigars, even if it's a one note and something you might 1046 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:44,760 not smoke for yourself, you'll hold it in the back of your mind and say, you know what, 1047 01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:51,280 my buddy so and so, they really like this flavor, this kind of cigar. 1048 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,640 I've got one that fits that and it's that all the way through. 1049 01:02:54,640 --> 01:03:00,260 You don't have to smoke through a bad first half to get to a decent second half. 1050 01:03:00,260 --> 01:03:03,520 You can smoke a good all the way through cigar. 1051 01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:04,520 Yes. 1052 01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,920 And I agree with that. 1053 01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,840 Especially if they don't smoke a lot of cigars. 1054 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,200 Or even if they do and they like the one notes. 1055 01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:17,720 If you have a friend that doesn't smoke a lot of cigars and they're new to it, I know 1056 01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:23,800 my answer and it's only one answer, which is the Mood Trance. 1057 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,160 Yes. 1058 01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:30,840 So, anyway, back to Animal Farm. 1059 01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:31,840 Hit me. 1060 01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:33,560 Hit me up. 1061 01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:40,800 So our favorite character is Benjamin. 1062 01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:47,760 Even though I was trying to break it down for personalities in society. 1063 01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:54,200 And I think a lot of the talk about the cat was very interesting. 1064 01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,560 You know, because the cat pops in and out. 1065 01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:02,600 And the cat is never directly affected really by the rules and never believed in the rules 1066 01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:03,600 either. 1067 01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:09,600 And I think that a lot of people in our modern, a lot of the quote unquote smart people act 1068 01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:13,280 a lot like the cat. 1069 01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:21,400 Where they're there, they don't really believe in the rules, but they tertiarily follow them. 1070 01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:25,120 Well, and the same with the crow. 1071 01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:31,560 The crow was super interesting because it's a directing, that's almost blunt. 1072 01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:41,720 The crow that talks about sugarcanned or sugar land candy mountain or whatever. 1073 01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:42,720 Yes. 1074 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:53,520 But it was interesting because it was almost the crazy kook profit on the street corner. 1075 01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:55,720 That is sponsored by the state. 1076 01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:56,720 Yes. 1077 01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:05,400 And so that's what I was going to say next is the crazy kook street preacher that Napoleon 1078 01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:18,160 allowed because Napoleon as the dictator saw value in giving the animals hope in something 1079 01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:21,000 that could in no way, shape or form ever be proven. 1080 01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,560 You bet it wasn't just allowed. 1081 01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,440 Remember Jones fed the crow. 1082 01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:27,440 Yes. 1083 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:32,920 And when Moses came back on the blunt nose, right? 1084 01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:37,440 The pigs gave him an allowance of beer per day. 1085 01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,120 Yes, they did. 1086 01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:45,840 And no other animal got an allowance of beer. 1087 01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:46,840 Besides the pigs. 1088 01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:47,840 Except pigs. 1089 01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:48,840 Yes. 1090 01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:51,840 The pigs and the crow. 1091 01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,040 And the pigs would of course talk bad about the crow. 1092 01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:56,640 But they had to. 1093 01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:57,640 Well yes. 1094 01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:58,640 They had to. 1095 01:05:58,640 --> 01:05:59,640 Yeah, they had to. 1096 01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:00,640 But they paid the crow. 1097 01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,280 But they saw the value in the crow, right? 1098 01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:04,880 So they saw the value in the crow. 1099 01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:12,760 But they had to publicly denounce the crow. 1100 01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:13,760 Which is interesting. 1101 01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:14,760 I thought. 1102 01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:15,760 It's true. 1103 01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,960 Like I say, there's a lot of parallels to our modern society. 1104 01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:20,960 Yes. 1105 01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:25,560 But just as it was then, it hasn't changed that much. 1106 01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:26,560 It really hasn't. 1107 01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:32,040 And as a free nation, if you don't see the air quotes, it's because you're not watching 1108 01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:36,680 us live on video. 1109 01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:44,520 But as a free nation, the amount of things, the ruling class, and by ruling class I mean 1110 01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:57,160 either both political parties and all billionaires, that's the ruling class. 1111 01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,080 Like you can get a huge boner for Elon Musk. 1112 01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,520 But guess what? 1113 01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,120 He's part of the ruling class. 1114 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:11,400 And something we should talk about later is Mark Cuban's pharmacy site that he set up. 1115 01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:12,400 He's undercutting. 1116 01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:13,720 I don't know anything about it. 1117 01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:17,600 Yeah, he's undercutting all the big pharma. 1118 01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:19,420 Interesting. 1119 01:07:19,420 --> 01:07:22,160 By hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. 1120 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:23,160 Interesting. 1121 01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,720 And he's still cutting a profit. 1122 01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:27,720 Yeah. 1123 01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,120 And he's caused quite a stir. 1124 01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,720 And that's something that we have to look into a little bit more before we can talk 1125 01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,280 about it intelligently on our podcast. 1126 01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,880 But that's something that's causing a stir right now. 1127 01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,240 Especially if you take prescription drugs. 1128 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:51,440 And his site is amazing because you can click on the disease you have and it lists all the 1129 01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:54,440 medicines that their pharmacy covers. 1130 01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:59,640 And instead of like $400, it's like 30 bucks. 1131 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:05,400 So he'll tell you what it costs for him to buy. 1132 01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:11,280 And he'll tell you what CVS, Walgreens, all the insurance companies are charging for that 1133 01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:12,720 drug. 1134 01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:16,600 And then he'll charge, if it's a $30 thing, he'll charge 40 bucks. 1135 01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:25,160 So you're paying 10 extra bucks, which is still a pretty decent markup. 1136 01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:33,480 But it's interesting because as a wealthy person in America, you can choose to go the 1137 01:08:33,480 --> 01:08:41,960 Elon Musk route where you're sucking the government's dick all day long to get more money for you. 1138 01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:48,080 Or you're trying to undercut and change society to where you're not trying to monopolize and 1139 01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,800 make a fuck ton of money off of sick people. 1140 01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:51,800 Right. 1141 01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:59,080 Well, the Elon Musk of the world are definitely kind of like Moses because he gets tens of 1142 01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:01,280 billions of dollars in contracts. 1143 01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:02,280 Yeah. 1144 01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:04,200 And he made all these various projects. 1145 01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:10,020 And the only reason he was able to buy the founder ship is he's not the founder of Tesla, 1146 01:09:10,020 --> 01:09:12,020 but he bought that title. 1147 01:09:12,020 --> 01:09:19,040 The only reason he's able to buy that title is because his daddy sold blood diamonds. 1148 01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:20,040 Blood emeralds. 1149 01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:21,040 Well, whatever. 1150 01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:22,040 Blood something. 1151 01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,040 That's pretty much the same thing. 1152 01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:26,840 African slave mine. 1153 01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:27,840 Yeah. 1154 01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:28,840 Yeah. 1155 01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:36,160 So, but yeah, Animal Farm. 1156 01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:42,840 I mean, I read it in high school, but I was not prepared for a 90 page book to do what 1157 01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:43,840 it did to me. 1158 01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:45,560 You know what I mean? 1159 01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:46,560 Right. 1160 01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:56,200 Well, I feel disappointed in my old literature teacher because they taught you the things 1161 01:09:56,200 --> 01:10:01,720 in literature and it was like testing, blah, blah, but the real cultural significance of 1162 01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:03,800 it was purposefully avoided. 1163 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:04,800 What happened? 1164 01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,800 That's how I would put it now. 1165 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:09,480 Kind of, yeah. 1166 01:10:09,480 --> 01:10:16,960 You know, my nephew recently came and visited us and we were going around doing all the 1167 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:17,960 things. 1168 01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:23,320 And even he at 16 is aware that you don't ban things that are lies. 1169 01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:27,840 You ban things that are true and the people who are banning them are probably guilty of 1170 01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:33,680 the things that whatever they're banning is preaching against. 1171 01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,520 That is real and true. 1172 01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:40,520 You know, so the young people now are with it. 1173 01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:42,080 So it's not a terrible thing. 1174 01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:47,000 It's just weird that a lot of adults seem to put their blinders on. 1175 01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:56,000 Well, and that's the whole thing is like the younger generations know how to use the internet. 1176 01:10:56,000 --> 01:11:04,720 So you can tell them they can't read a certain book, but if you tell them they can't read 1177 01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,880 a certain book, they're going to go find it somewhere else. 1178 01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,480 Like even if it's not in the public library, you know how much. 1179 01:11:12,480 --> 01:11:26,200 So they banned Mouse, which is the graphic novel about, you know, the Holocaust. 1180 01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,000 And as soon as they banned it, you know what I did? 1181 01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:34,840 Went on eBay for five bucks about the complete thing, all in one book. 1182 01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:36,780 I haven't read it yet. 1183 01:11:36,780 --> 01:11:39,200 But you know what? 1184 01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,480 I'm 36 years old. 1185 01:11:41,480 --> 01:11:45,440 And if somebody bans a book, I'm not in school, so I don't care if they ban it. 1186 01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:48,160 But if they're banning a book, you know what I'm going to do? 1187 01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:54,760 I'm going to go fucking buy it and read it because that's what you need to do. 1188 01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:59,520 If the ruling class is telling you a book is banned, you had goddamn better well go 1189 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:01,720 fucking read that book right now. 1190 01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:03,080 Yep. 1191 01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:10,000 And they are local books other here has a stack of them. 1192 01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:11,920 It wasn't there before they banned it. 1193 01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:13,960 Oh, yeah, of course. 1194 01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:17,480 And it's, you know, like banning a book. 1195 01:12:17,480 --> 01:12:19,640 That's only for like schools, right? 1196 01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:20,640 Right. 1197 01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:21,640 Yeah. 1198 01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,080 Like it's not banning it for the general population. 1199 01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:26,560 Like they can never ban a book. 1200 01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,480 They can try. 1201 01:12:28,480 --> 01:12:29,480 They can try. 1202 01:12:29,480 --> 01:12:30,520 They can try. 1203 01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:32,120 But it's not going to be easy. 1204 01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,240 You know, there's so many other places to get books. 1205 01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:38,480 But if they're banning it, you'd better read it. 1206 01:12:38,480 --> 01:12:45,560 And one of the best books and I think I talked about this before on a podcast, but recently 1207 01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:49,280 because I subscribed to a couple different like newsletters and things. 1208 01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:53,560 I don't really watch the news, but I subscribe to some like email digests and things and 1209 01:12:53,560 --> 01:13:01,080 I subscribe to, you know, like a reading list email that comes out once a month. 1210 01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:10,880 But one of the one of the prevailing themes of some of the media that I choose to consume 1211 01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:18,560 in my life is that if somebody bans a book, it's something they don't want you to read. 1212 01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:26,680 It's really nothing to do with, you know, per perverse thoughts or theories or mentalities. 1213 01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:34,280 It's just perverse to them and their goal to, you know, make you into a boxer as it were. 1214 01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:35,280 Right. 1215 01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:38,040 They want you to be a boxer or be real. 1216 01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:43,400 Well, yeah, anybody, anybody who just thinks the leader is right all the time. 1217 01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:54,800 And so anytime you see a banned book, probably a smart move to read that book. 1218 01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,800 Right. 1219 01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,160 Right. 1220 01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:05,760 It's kind of like the recent attack on Salman Rushdie. 1221 01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:11,080 There's a reason why he's had a hit on him for 40 years. 1222 01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:17,760 It's because he wrote something provocative and unpleasant to a certain faction globally. 1223 01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:18,760 Right. 1224 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:23,520 And I've never read it myself, to be honest with you. 1225 01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:24,520 So. 1226 01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:28,120 Animal Farm, such an interesting book. 1227 01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,320 Everybody should go out and read it if you have not done so. 1228 01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:35,960 And if you have not done so for years, you should do so now because it's more prescient 1229 01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:37,920 than ever. 1230 01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:46,720 And I won't make it political as far as one political party being more like certain animals 1231 01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:48,720 than the other. 1232 01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:56,640 Well, I think it's more the ruling class versus everybody else. 1233 01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:58,160 It is. 1234 01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:06,920 I was going to say that it's more, it's kind of like Snowball and Napoleon. 1235 01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:11,280 They weren't hoots together until Napoleon kicked them out of the club. 1236 01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:15,020 They were working together and all their nefarious bullshit. 1237 01:15:15,020 --> 01:15:16,800 That's where the milk comes in. 1238 01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,680 They were both stealing the milk. 1239 01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:26,240 They were both perpetuating the initial inequality amongst the animals. 1240 01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:31,480 Just happens to be that Napoleon kicked Snowball out and made him the scapegoat. 1241 01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:32,480 Yeah. 1242 01:15:32,480 --> 01:15:38,680 And I think Snowball probably had some guilt about it. 1243 01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:43,480 Not that that made it right, but I think that, you know, and we said this before, is like 1244 01:15:43,480 --> 01:15:49,200 Snowball was naive and never thought Napoleon would turn on him. 1245 01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:50,200 Right. 1246 01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:53,040 But Snowball was also a collaborator. 1247 01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:57,120 Well, he was a collaborator, but I think he felt maybe guilty about it. 1248 01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:01,040 He was probably one of those collaborators that was like, but why shouldn't we have all 1249 01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:02,040 the milk? 1250 01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,400 But I still feel guilty about it. 1251 01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:06,640 And Napoleon was like, well, you're weak then. 1252 01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:13,400 You know, I mean, that's some of the back behind the scenes stuff that, you know, George 1253 01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:21,760 Orwell never wrote about, but it's just there to imply or there to, you know, chew on. 1254 01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:26,520 It's very, like I say, layered, very, too complex to talk about in a podcast. 1255 01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:29,520 You know what I mean? 1256 01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,000 Line by line. 1257 01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:35,440 Well, yeah, we can touch on, you know, the major themes and some of the subtleties that 1258 01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:42,400 we picked up on, but it's really one of those ones that you got to read for yourself and 1259 01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:48,000 pick up on some of that stuff yourself because everybody's going to view it a little bit 1260 01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:49,000 differently. 1261 01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:50,000 Oh, for sure. 1262 01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:51,000 Very good. 1263 01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:55,360 Like I was saying, everybody should go out and get it. 1264 01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:57,080 If you haven't read it, read it. 1265 01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:01,640 And if you read it a long time ago, read it again or listen to it. 1266 01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:02,640 It's free and audible. 1267 01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:03,640 Okay. 1268 01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:04,640 Yeah. 1269 01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:07,680 So, and it's 99 cents on Kindle. 1270 01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:11,520 Now there we go. 1271 01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:15,360 And the reader on the audible book that I listened to was one of the voice actors in 1272 01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:16,360 Oblivion. 1273 01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:17,360 Oh, nice. 1274 01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:20,800 It was kind of a blast from the past for me. 1275 01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:24,360 There you go. 1276 01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:27,880 It's very easily accessible is what we should say. 1277 01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,040 You can go buy it at a used bookstore. 1278 01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:33,400 I'm sure most used bookstores have multiple copies of it. 1279 01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:39,680 I know the used bookstore I went to had, I don't know, four or five copies, a couple 1280 01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,800 different editions. 1281 01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:47,080 So, it's not out of the realm of acquiring. 1282 01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:49,720 No, no. 1283 01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:51,920 It's not an obscure novel. 1284 01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:52,920 No. 1285 01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:56,880 So yeah, boxers, that's who they want you to be. 1286 01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:00,320 They want you to say the leader is right. 1287 01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:04,320 And all I need to do to make the world better is to work harder for them. 1288 01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:05,320 Yes. 1289 01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:13,760 Speaking about working harder for the leader, there's this new, I don't know if it's cultural 1290 01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:17,360 phenomenon or counter cultural phenomenon. 1291 01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:25,480 It's really not a phenomenon and it's really not that big of a thing, but it also is, which 1292 01:18:25,480 --> 01:18:26,760 is weird. 1293 01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:31,680 So there's this whole thing called quiet quitting. 1294 01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:32,960 I have heard of that. 1295 01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:33,960 Yes. 1296 01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:34,960 Okay. 1297 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:42,360 So it's, you will clock in, you will do your job and you will clock out and that's the 1298 01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:43,360 end of it. 1299 01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,880 You're not going to go work extra hours. 1300 01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:52,600 You're not going to kill yourself to try and do extra work for your employer, which, you 1301 01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:56,960 know, thinking about it, that should never be a thing. 1302 01:18:56,960 --> 01:18:58,600 Like we don't live to work. 1303 01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:03,120 You're supposed to work to live. 1304 01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:09,000 But apparently like a lot of employers are getting butt hurt about their employees not 1305 01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:13,040 going above and beyond when they're not paying them above and beyond. 1306 01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:14,880 You know what I mean? 1307 01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:16,880 So well, it's being a Benjamin. 1308 01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:18,840 It's not being a boxer. 1309 01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:21,400 Well yes, precisely. 1310 01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:29,240 And that's the whole point is like, and you've been saying it this whole episode is animal 1311 01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:34,720 farm is more relevant now, maybe even than it was when it was written. 1312 01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:40,560 But you shouldn't kill yourself for your job. 1313 01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,120 No, like they don't care about you. 1314 01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:44,120 Really. 1315 01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:45,120 They don't care about you. 1316 01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:46,120 Everybody is replaceable. 1317 01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:54,040 No one individual is integral to the machine and the machine doesn't care about you because 1318 01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:58,960 if you leave tomorrow and a few days time, somebody else will be in your place. 1319 01:19:58,960 --> 01:19:59,960 Yes. 1320 01:19:59,960 --> 01:20:01,200 And also the machine is hungry. 1321 01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:04,200 It's always hungry. 1322 01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,720 It will take everything you give and more. 1323 01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:07,720 Absolutely. 1324 01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:09,720 Unless you draw your boundaries. 1325 01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:10,720 Absolutely. 1326 01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:17,000 And it might have personal consequences with your boss and your coworkers depending on 1327 01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:22,680 their attitudes, but they're not your family and they're not your friends. 1328 01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:28,160 So that is just the way that it is. 1329 01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:29,160 Awesome. 1330 01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:36,520 That was one thing I like to is that Benjamin being the donkey who was there longer than 1331 01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,640 anybody else, right? 1332 01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:44,800 Didn't change the way he did things that he didn't get involved with any of the goings 1333 01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:45,800 on largely. 1334 01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:53,080 Other than he was friends with Boxer to the very end and he tried to inform the animals 1335 01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:56,320 that Boxer was getting sent to the glue factory. 1336 01:20:56,320 --> 01:21:04,720 Well, if you remember the powers that be said it was just an old cart and they hadn't repainted 1337 01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:05,720 the name. 1338 01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,920 They hadn't repainted the name and everybody believed it. 1339 01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:16,400 Other than Benjamin, of course. 1340 01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:20,560 So in life, be a Benjamin because everybody's trying to take advantage of you. 1341 01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:21,560 Yes, they are. 1342 01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:27,360 No matter what station or income you're at, there's somebody somewhere trying to take 1343 01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:31,040 advantage of you and probably succeeding. 1344 01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:32,040 And that is true. 1345 01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,040 At least in my life it's true. 1346 01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:35,040 Yes. 1347 01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:41,000 So unless you're the one taking advantage of your being taken advantage of by somebody 1348 01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:42,000 else. 1349 01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,880 Yes, but then you're also probably a pig walking on two legs. 1350 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:45,880 Right. 1351 01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:46,880 Exactly. 1352 01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:51,160 So where are you at with your cigar, dude? 1353 01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:52,760 That's it, man. 1354 01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:53,760 Right on. 1355 01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:57,000 We got another one for the record books. 1356 01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:58,000 We do. 1357 01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:00,160 And that's Animal Farm. 1358 01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:01,160 So check it out. 1359 01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:04,840 What were your thoughts on the cigar? 1360 01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:05,840 I liked it. 1361 01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:10,200 It was consistent all the way through. 1362 01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:14,520 Nothing overly, you know, special. 1363 01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:17,160 But nothing overly not special. 1364 01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:20,160 It's a good stick for a conversation. 1365 01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:21,160 Yeah, good stick. 1366 01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:22,160 It's long enough. 1367 01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:26,080 Yeah, if you want something darker, do this one. 1368 01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:30,520 If you want something a little lighter, do the mac and noodle. 1369 01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:32,040 I would tend to agree. 1370 01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:33,880 I'd say they're pretty comparable. 1371 01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:41,400 You know, they're both very consistent, very stable all the way through, depending on your 1372 01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:43,400 taste preferences. 1373 01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:45,680 Yes, sir. 1374 01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:49,760 Well, everybody, be safe and have fun. 1375 01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:53,400 And be a Benjamin.