WEBVTT

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Johnny Ringo was born May 3rd of 1850, and he

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died in July of 1882 in Arizona. So he died at

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32, much like Jesus. Okay. Did he have 12 close

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friends? Yeah. Yes, he did. Welcome to Nice Ashes.

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Join hosts Mike and Nate for cigars and culture.

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Let's go beyond the smoke. What are we smoking

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today, Mike? We are smoking a Don Rafael, and

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the cap is not tasty at all. Okay. It's not offensive,

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but... Yeah, not bad. Not, uh, I don't know,

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kind of middle of the road, I guess, I would

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say. I don't know, not overly exciting, but not

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mouth -puckeringly bad. What are you pairing

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your cigar with today? I am pairing my cigar

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with... A brew from a local brewery, and it is

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from Falling Knife, and it is called Verbal Tip.

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Oh, there we are. What about you? I am pairing

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mine with ice water and 10 -year Henry McKenna

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single barrel. Nice. Special occasion or just

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podcast day? It's just podcast day. Hell yeah,

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it is. I opened this bottle about three, four

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weeks ago. And so it doesn't have very much left

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or very much gone. And I was like, well, I'll

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try it now and see. No time like the present.

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Yeah, first few puffs are fine. Kind of a weird

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overtone or undertone or something. I'm still

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getting that aspirin flavor off of it, but it's

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not. Yeah, maybe it's the cap. It's not terrible.

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We're doing our best to just explain as we go

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along. It's certainly not as bad as that other

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one we had a couple episodes back. Not as bad

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as the other one, but this one so far, I'm not

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excited. Well, it's long. It's another long one.

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It's long, and it's not tasty so far. Not yet.

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It's got time. It's got time to grow. What are

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we talking about, Mike? Well, we have a theme

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here this season with me. And we're going to

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talk about something that I did not know was

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a conspiracy until recently. I actually read

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an article, oh, I would say four months ago,

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about a gentleman named Johnny Ringo. And apparently

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Johnny Ringo's death is controversial. I did

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not know that, as many of these characters are.

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I suppose, since I knew you were going to ask.

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I will first tell the listeners who Johnny Ringo

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is. I obviously know who Johnny Ringo is. You

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know who Johnny Ringo is. Actually, I don't know.

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I don't know who Johnny Ringo is. You're fucking

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lying. You know who he is. Every American. More

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or less knows who Johnny Ringo is. Okay. Do you

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seriously not know who Johnny Ringo is? Well,

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not by name. I don't know. What is he, some famous

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porn star or something? I am judging you so,

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so hard. So we will start off with this. Johnny

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Ringo was born May 3rd of 1850. And here's a

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hint. He died in July of 1882 in Arizona. So

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he died at 32, much like Jesus. His father died.

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This was a pivotal moment. Did he have 12 close

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friends? Yeah. Yes, he did. So he was born, I

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think, in Indiana. He was born in the eastern

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United States somewhere. And moved west, as so

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many people did, after the Civil War. And he

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saw his father blow his own head off with a shotgun

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at 14. Accidentally, he fell off a wagon traveling

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west, like Oregon Trail -style accident. That

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might be a contributing factor of what happened

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for the rest of his life. Notable mentions before

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the time period that we're concerned with. He

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was involved in the Mason County War, which was

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one of the dozens of little skirmishes that went

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on in the western United States. This particular

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one was cattle rustlers and the Texas Rangers

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versus German immigrants who were trying to ranch

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in Texas. So Johnny Ringo was buddies with one

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of the Rangers. in his 20s, and he was a cattle

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wrestler, and he, of course, fought on the side

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of the wrestlers. And then what we know is that

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in 1877, right before he moved to Arizona, he

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was a lawman in Texas, and he was in and out

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of jail. So Johnny Ringo was a member of the

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Cochise County Cowboys, and the Cochise County

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Cowboys were notable because they were one of

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the first instances of legit organized crime

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in the West. So they would systematically steal

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cattle, bring them across the border, steal cattle

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in Mexico, bring them across the border into

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the United States and sell them illegally. They

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also held up stagecoaches and all the traditional

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Western fare. And most notably, and I figured

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the Cochise County Cowboys would have been the

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trigger word for you, he was one of the antagonists

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of the Earp Gang in Tombstone, Arizona. Okay.

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Yeah. So that is Johnny Ringo's fame. He was

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notorious for being a gunfighter and a murderer

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and a womanizer. Sure. And a little quick story,

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and this is going to be like a setup. Okay. So

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in 1879, Ringo... Had been in Tombstone for a

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year or two. He shot a man named Lewis Hancock

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in the middle of a bar. Okay. Did not go to jail

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for some reason. Well, we know why. If you know

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anything about the Earp gang and the Sheriff

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Behan and all the Tombstone politics of that

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era, we know why he didn't go to jail. But he

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shot a gentleman named Lewis Hancock in a bar.

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Why, Nate, did he shoot this gentleman? Who survived?

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Well, it was likely an issue of states' rights.

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No. Probably. Johnny Ringo. They were probably

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playing cards and he was accused of being a cheat.

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Isn't that the most. That's like number one.

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Number two is like over a woman. No, that would

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be also in his character. And we'll talk about

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that later, but no. I don't know. I guess he's

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really thinking outside the box of why he needs

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to shoot this guy. Johnny Ringo was very drunk

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at the bar and he bought a round of shots for

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everybody. And Lewis Hancock turned down the

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shot saying that he preferred beer. And Ringo

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was so insulted that he shot him. I mean, there's

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an adage, and I don't think it's even that old

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of an adage, but maybe it is, is you go to somebody's

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house and they offer you a beer. Don't complain

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about the type of beer. Your number one favorite

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drink is free, and then your second favorite

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can be whatever your actual favorite is, right?

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Right. You're saying that Lewis deserved his

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fate because he turned down a shot of whiskey.

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I think so. I think so. I mean, you know what?

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Somebody buys me a Jell -O shot or, you know,

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something that I'm not particularly fond of.

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Am I going to bitch and moan or am I just going

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to drink it? Mama didn't raise no quitter. I'm

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just going to drink it. It's the thought that

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counts. It is the thought that counts. It is.

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So. I mean, being shot might be a stretch, but

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it was a different time back then, so. Right,

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right, right. I'll allow it. So now do you recall

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who Johnny Ringo is? No. He must not be down

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with the OK Corral, the OK Corral lore. Yeah,

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I'm not hugely down with the OK Corral lore.

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I'm not hugely down with actual real cowboys.

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I mean, I'm down with them. I love cowboys and

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I love westerns and all that, but I haven't done

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much reading or history learning of actual cowboys.

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You know, I thought for a while you were because

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I don't know. Wild Bill. Wild Bill. Because he's

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the one that went around to the different fairs

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and stuff and put on the cowboy shows, right?

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Like the world fairs and stuff. And Annie Oakley.

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They're more performers. Yeah, that was... I'm

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going to check. I think that was Wild Bill. Because

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there's Bill Hickok. Yeah, Bill Hickok. And Bill

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Hickok. And then there's like Buffalo Bill Cody

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or something, right? Buffalo Bill Cody is the

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guy who was the traveling performer. Yes. Wild

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Bill Hickok is the guy who got shot playing poker.

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Oh, yes. Yes. So I haven't done extensive research

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on actual real cowboys, more of the fictional

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cowboys. I like cowboys. It was such a short

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window of history, but I know some of them had

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other names. And so I was waiting for you to

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tell me that, you know, Johnny Ringo's more famously

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known as. Jesse James or somebody else, right?

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No, no, no. He does have ties to the Jesse James

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gang because apparently some of his relatives

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were robbed by the James gang. Sure. And I know

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more about them because by where my grandpa used

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to have a cabin, it was, I don't know, like an

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hour drive from Little Bohemia where I think

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the James gang holed up and got shot up at by

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the feds. And so you can go there and have dinner

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and it's a restaurant and everything. So I know

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a little bit more about that because it's more

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regionally appropriate to. northern wisconsin

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right and similar to like arizona gang got decimated

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by a bunch of farmers in minnesota when they

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tried to rob what the hell was it north branch

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or something like that yeah something like that

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yeah yeah they came up to minnesota and thought

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they were going to get away with it and a bunch

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of they thought they were hot shit and they found

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out they weren't yeah like they found out that

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they're very popular where they're from but not

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where i'm from yes like they were just Viewed

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as criminal scum, which is what they were, but

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that is not related to this. They weren't pretty

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boy Floyd who would destroy mortgage documents

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at the bank so that everybody loved him because

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he got a lot of people out of debt just because

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he decided to burn mortgage documents at banks

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he robbed. Yeah, different era, but yeah. Yeah,

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different era for sure. A lot of those guys were

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beloved and protected because they weren't robbing

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anybody. They weren't robbing normal people.

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Yeah. But anyway. Yeah, the carry on the American

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outlaw theme, but yes. Keep going, Mike. Back

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to the Wild West. Back to the Wild West. But

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yeah, Johnny Ringo was a member of the Cowboys

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gang who was one of the antagonists of the Earps

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during the OK Corral era of the Earp regime.

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So it's like the famous Tombstone, Arizona boom

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town shit. Yeah. And I've been to Tombstone,

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Arizona, but I don't, it's been many years. So

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I don't know if they have much about Johnny Ringo.

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I'm sure they did. They still have his grave

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in that area. But anyway, in 1882, July, they

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have an exact date, but it's not known exactly

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when he died. They found him next to a large

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oak tree on the banks of the Upper Turkey Creek.

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and this is an idyllic shaded spot it's right

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off a main thoroughfare and it's about a quarter

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mile from one of his buddy's ranches so he knew

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where he was he was in a well -traveled area

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he was within walking distance of a safe haven

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so to speak but also off of a highway uh and

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he was seen resting let's call it by several

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people who were traveling by a uh teamster actually

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is the one who found him dead so okay he could

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have been there for who knows how long yeah he

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was he was resting deeply Yeah, he was resting

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deeply. Right. He was Pepsi'd. The general idea

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is that he was riding a horse. He was on a drinking

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binge. He had been seen the day previous with

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two bottles of whiskey, and undoubtedly he was

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either still drinking or hungover. He stopped,

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watered his horse, took his boots off, walked

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and cooled his feet. The horse got spooked and

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ran off. And by the time that people found Ringo,

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he had taken his under... shirt off, had wrapped

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his feet with it, had put his gun belts back

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on. upside down one of them so hastily put his

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gun belts back on and then he was no longer alive

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so interestingly enough he was 700 feet from

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a person's house and they did not report anything

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going on interestingly these are people he didn't

00:12:18.269 --> 00:12:20.149
know oh didn't know okay because you said he

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was close ish to he was a quarter mile away from

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his house he was 700 feet away from somebody

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else's little cat it was well known at the time

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that he was often depressed and he had fears

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of being gunned down he had talked about being

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paranoid and how he kind of understood that he

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was going to get shot to death eventually someday

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yep And his friend knew that he was there. It

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wasn't a secret where he was. Let's put it that

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way. Yeah. So we have the official story of Johnny

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Ringo's death. And this is what everybody says

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happened, minus some characters that we're going

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to talk about later. Sure. Not the Earps, I hope.

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Not the Earps. We'll get there. Okay. So the

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official story is that Johnny Ringo got... either

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being hung over or drunk and shot himself, you

00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:14.000
know, in despair over his horse running away,

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even though he was a quarter mile away from his

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friend's house. Yeah. And the horse was later

00:13:17.899 --> 00:13:19.779
found with his boots on it and all that shit.

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So we know that that kind of happened. So where

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was the horse? And I'm going to just assume that

00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:27.659
you were there and you were the one that, you

00:13:27.659 --> 00:13:29.740
know, investigated the scene. Were the boots

00:13:29.740 --> 00:13:31.720
in the horse like stuck in the stirrups or were

00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:34.399
the boots on the horse like he took his boots

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off to go wade in the water and tucked them in

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the saddle? The boots were tied over the horn

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of the saddle. Sure. Okay. So, I mean, it was

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pretty clear that he walked the horse into the

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stream. Okay. And he was in the, he took his

00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:49.509
belts off. So he was in the water. Yep. I just

00:13:49.509 --> 00:13:52.809
wanted to make sure it wasn't like he got thrown

00:13:52.809 --> 00:13:55.789
off the horse for some reason. No, no, no, no.

00:13:55.870 --> 00:13:58.750
Maybe he was concussed and drunk and depressed.

00:13:59.470 --> 00:14:02.950
He was probably drunk and depressed. Well, yeah.

00:14:03.169 --> 00:14:05.909
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then was cooling off in

00:14:05.909 --> 00:14:08.509
the stream, and then the horse ran for some reason,

00:14:08.529 --> 00:14:10.070
and he had to put his shit back on. Sure. And

00:14:10.070 --> 00:14:12.450
that's why his gun belts were upside down. Or

00:14:12.450 --> 00:14:14.909
did the horse run because there was a stranger

00:14:14.909 --> 00:14:17.460
in the bush? Well, man, we're going to get to

00:14:17.460 --> 00:14:19.860
that. You said conspiracy theories, so, you know,

00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:22.379
let the imagination run a little bit. Oh, yeah.

00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.799
So, anyway, he was found with a revolver. Oh,

00:14:25.860 --> 00:14:27.559
go ahead. Well, I was going to say, he was seen

00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.240
napping by several people. But when you say napping,

00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:32.200
it wasn't that he was actually napping, was it?

00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:35.240
No, they saw him sitting beneath this tree off

00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:37.580
of the highway. Yeah, but was he alive at that

00:14:37.580 --> 00:14:40.620
time? When the Teamster found him, was he sitting

00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:43.340
the same way? You know what I mean? The Teamster

00:14:43.340 --> 00:14:46.159
walked up and found him dead. And I think that

00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:48.039
he was probably dead the entire time that people

00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.379
saw him. Sure. I mean, that was my question is

00:14:50.379 --> 00:14:51.840
like, was he already dead? And people were just

00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:53.940
like, oh, hey, there's, you know, like Weekend

00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:56.220
at Bernie's style, right? Like, oh, there's wild

00:14:56.220 --> 00:15:00.080
gunman Johnny Ringo. He's napping, okay. Well

00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:04.720
-known cattle rustler outlaw. But anyway, his

00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.279
revolver was in his right hand. He got shot in

00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:10.750
the head. Of course. And he was drinking heavily

00:15:10.750 --> 00:15:13.309
and had depression. What we would call depression

00:15:13.309 --> 00:15:15.929
now. Yeah. There's some issues with this story.

00:15:16.110 --> 00:15:18.830
Some people, the people who found the body made

00:15:18.830 --> 00:15:21.690
a coroner's investigation. So they call them

00:15:21.690 --> 00:15:23.690
a coroner's jury at the time. And so they got

00:15:23.690 --> 00:15:26.309
11 people or 12 people together and they looked

00:15:26.309 --> 00:15:28.009
at the body and then they buried it and they

00:15:28.009 --> 00:15:30.690
made a report. And in the report, it was noted.

00:15:31.129 --> 00:15:33.730
that his body was not in a natural position.

00:15:33.909 --> 00:15:37.029
They also noted that he had no black powder marks

00:15:37.029 --> 00:15:40.389
on his skin, which, if you've ever shot a black

00:15:40.389 --> 00:15:43.730
powder firearm, significant amounts of fire come

00:15:43.730 --> 00:15:48.929
out the end. They are an absolute bitch to clean.

00:15:49.210 --> 00:15:51.669
Yes. If you were to shoot a black powder pistol

00:15:51.669 --> 00:15:55.960
at short range, you would definitely have some

00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:59.620
burns, right? Well, and presumably if he were

00:15:59.620 --> 00:16:02.419
wet from the stream, that black powder would

00:16:02.419 --> 00:16:04.940
accumulate on the water. You know, like if you

00:16:04.940 --> 00:16:07.820
have wet hands and you're like sawing wood, right?

00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:09.899
The sawdust accumulates and gets kind of sludgy,

00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:12.440
whatever. So the black powder would do something

00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.139
similar because it's very acrid and very intense.

00:16:15.340 --> 00:16:17.399
Like there's a lot of powder. You know, you watch

00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:19.340
these, you watch these Civil War movies and you're

00:16:19.340 --> 00:16:21.379
like, oh yeah, I can totally see across the field.

00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:23.940
Well, after like two rifles fire black powder,

00:16:24.019 --> 00:16:26.360
you can't see shit. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And he

00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:28.200
had a, he had a rifle with him also. He had,

00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:30.019
well, he had two cartridge belts. One was for

00:16:30.019 --> 00:16:32.240
the rifle, one was for the pistol, but his pistol

00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:34.960
belt didn't have a holster. So the holster was

00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:37.519
left on the horse. Okay. Somehow. That ran away.

00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:39.919
That's why he was upset. That's why he was upset,

00:16:40.059 --> 00:16:42.759
according to this theory. Right. Of course. Why

00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:44.779
not? Well, I mean, you know, you find somebody

00:16:44.779 --> 00:16:47.019
dead, you know that they're. Have what? Bouts

00:16:47.019 --> 00:16:49.019
of malady or whatever they called it back then.

00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:51.320
And you have to invent a reason why. It could

00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.460
be any number of reasons. Who knows why? But,

00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:55.600
you know, it could be depression for sure. Right.

00:16:55.860 --> 00:16:58.059
He could have been upset about the horse. But

00:16:58.059 --> 00:17:00.000
anyway, yeah, I don't, you know, I'm not trying

00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.830
to step on your thing. Well, no. Yeah, these

00:17:02.830 --> 00:17:05.150
aren't the only issues. I'll save the juiciest

00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:07.329
part for last. So his boots were left on the

00:17:07.329 --> 00:17:10.269
horse. Yeah, his boots were left on the horse,

00:17:10.369 --> 00:17:12.750
which shows that he was at least trying to take

00:17:12.750 --> 00:17:14.930
care of not ruining his footwear, which is strange

00:17:14.930 --> 00:17:19.049
if you're going to commit suicide. Also, he wasn't

00:17:19.049 --> 00:17:20.769
starving to death. He wasn't going to die of

00:17:20.769 --> 00:17:22.650
thirst. And he knew where he was. And he was

00:17:22.650 --> 00:17:24.470
only a quarter mile away from his buddy's house.

00:17:24.609 --> 00:17:26.869
Well, and he was by a stream. So, yeah, there's

00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:29.720
sustenance right there. Yeah, exactly. Like,

00:17:29.740 --> 00:17:32.000
if he wanted to find his horse, he could walk

00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.460
to his friend's place down the road, get a horse,

00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.319
and go find his fucking horse. And they did find

00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:38.640
his horse later. Hey, Jimbo, help me find my

00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:41.759
horse. It ran off. Exactly. Exactly. And this

00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.119
is kind of like the smoking gun. Ha ha ha. Literally.

00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.299
Ha ha ha. The part of his head that came off

00:17:49.299 --> 00:17:53.180
with the blast, part of it had been cut off with

00:17:53.180 --> 00:17:55.819
a knife and was missing. So he was partially

00:17:55.819 --> 00:17:59.670
scalped before they got there. By someone. So

00:17:59.670 --> 00:18:02.089
either somebody found his corpse and scalped

00:18:02.089 --> 00:18:05.369
him for some reason, or somebody else did it.

00:18:05.430 --> 00:18:08.730
Yeah, as one does. As one does. Well, this is

00:18:08.730 --> 00:18:10.250
Wild West days. Like, there's going to be some

00:18:10.250 --> 00:18:11.910
antics, these characters. We're going to get

00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:14.869
into it. These guys are not normal by modern

00:18:14.869 --> 00:18:17.950
standards. Well, though. They could never have

00:18:17.950 --> 00:18:20.250
been, Mike. They could never have been. No, no,

00:18:20.309 --> 00:18:22.450
no. So. We're going to go to conspiracy theory

00:18:22.450 --> 00:18:24.670
number one. This is the one that's very popular.

00:18:24.890 --> 00:18:26.950
Okay, this is the most popular one. This is the

00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:29.690
most popular one. Okay, my question, before you

00:18:29.690 --> 00:18:31.970
start going, Mike, I want you to know at the

00:18:31.970 --> 00:18:34.849
very end, I'm going to ask you which one you

00:18:34.849 --> 00:18:37.789
think is true, whether it be the official story

00:18:37.789 --> 00:18:40.609
or one of the conspiracy stories. There we go.

00:18:40.650 --> 00:18:43.210
Okay, theory number one. Theory number one, Wyatt

00:18:43.210 --> 00:18:45.329
Earp did it. Wyatt Earp, of course, was on his

00:18:45.329 --> 00:18:48.390
vendetta ride during this time period. Very famous.

00:18:48.829 --> 00:18:51.740
If people don't know it, look it up. But long

00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:53.460
story short, Johnny Ringo was part of the gang

00:18:53.460 --> 00:18:55.299
that killed one of his brothers and basically

00:18:55.299 --> 00:18:59.079
crippled the other one. And he went on a tirade

00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:01.380
and very interesting Wild West stuff. I enjoy

00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:05.400
it. Well, and the Earps weren't... Fully acting

00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.019
in good faith, from what I recall. Were they?

00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:11.299
Well, that's why I refer to them as the Earp

00:19:11.299 --> 00:19:14.720
gang. Yeah, I call them the Earp gang because

00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.519
Johnny Ringo was a deputy and was part of the

00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.079
Rangers. It's not like he wasn't a lawman also

00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:24.039
at some points in time. So these guys were in

00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:27.240
and out of being law enforcement. Yeah, everything

00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.240
was fairly fluid. Yeah, Wyatt Earp had four wives,

00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:32.579
and they were all prostitutes. He was running

00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.160
whores and gambling dens and all sorts of shit.

00:19:35.299 --> 00:19:37.680
He has been accused reputably of a lot of crimes.

00:19:38.019 --> 00:19:40.099
If they're good at what they do, I mean, you

00:19:40.099 --> 00:19:42.319
know. Well, Wyatt Earp is the good guy because

00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.319
he lived long enough to be a Hollywood guy, and

00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:48.779
he helped in the early filming of Westerns. So,

00:19:48.779 --> 00:19:52.579
of course, you know. And he famously settled

00:19:52.579 --> 00:19:54.880
Dodge City and Tombstone. So he was a well -known

00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:57.680
lawman. Yeah, he had a good reputation in terms

00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:01.940
of, settling things in the same sense, I suppose.

00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:05.460
I don't know exactly the same sense, but very

00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:08.380
similar to Elon Musk, where if you don't dig

00:20:08.380 --> 00:20:10.539
too deeply, Elon Musk seems to be like a billionaire

00:20:10.539 --> 00:20:12.519
genius and people like him because he's a little

00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:14.599
irreverent. But if you start digging deeper,

00:20:14.779 --> 00:20:18.339
you're kind of like, hmm, you know, Wyatt, I

00:20:18.339 --> 00:20:20.480
don't know, man. This was a little questionable.

00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:22.720
That was a little questionable. But, you know,

00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.279
you live long enough, you get to write history.

00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.400
So there you go. That's one of these things where...

00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:29.880
He lived long enough to be the victor for sure.

00:20:30.099 --> 00:20:33.039
Yep. Do you think Wyatt Earp shot Mussolini?

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:38.039
Possibly. If he wasn't dead, you know, 20 years

00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:42.700
earlier. So there's some claims that support

00:20:42.700 --> 00:20:45.339
this. First of all, Ringo was a member of the

00:20:45.339 --> 00:20:48.640
Cowboys and Wyatt Earp systemically slaughtered

00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.819
all of the members of the Cowboys. Yep. Not just

00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:53.539
the men, but the women and the children too.

00:20:53.539 --> 00:20:58.079
But the women and the children too. At multiple

00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:02.000
points, claimed that he killed Ringo. Yep. He

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.579
also denied it at different points. Sure. White

00:21:04.579 --> 00:21:06.480
Earp was pretty fast and loose with what was

00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:08.940
true and not true. Let's put it that way. And

00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:15.059
he was pretty loose with the truth in a literal

00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:20.460
sense. So he is denied and claimed that he did

00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:23.119
it at different times. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.930
yeah. Now, there's two problems with this. White

00:21:25.930 --> 00:21:28.250
Earp was not in Arizona at the time of Ringo's

00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:36.529
death. And that is documented. And yeah, that's

00:21:36.529 --> 00:21:39.970
what that is. That's all it is. Like he was elsewhere.

00:21:39.990 --> 00:21:42.509
We know he was elsewhere unless he forged those

00:21:42.509 --> 00:21:44.410
documents. Okay. Where was he? He just wasn't

00:21:44.410 --> 00:21:49.150
there. Either in Colorado or in California, depending

00:21:49.150 --> 00:21:54.400
on the source. Either in Colorado or California,

00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:56.519
but not in Arizona. Sure. Because his family

00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:58.920
lived in California and Doc Holliday was in Colorado

00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.759
at the time. Okay. So, yeah, yeah. Now, theory

00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:04.240
number, you know, two here, conspiracy theory

00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.799
number two. And this is a variant. Yeah. A variant

00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.940
of the first one. And that is that Doc Holliday

00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.740
killed Ringo. And, of course, Doc Holliday was

00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:15.160
good bros with White Earp and the Earp gang.

00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:18.740
He was a well -known. character of those era.

00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:22.059
This story did not originate from the era. It

00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:25.220
was originated later in the Hollywood era because

00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:29.440
Doc Holliday was a known killer, kind of. His

00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:32.259
reputation. There is some supporting evidence

00:22:32.259 --> 00:22:35.359
that Johnny Ringo hated Doc Holliday because

00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.059
Johnny Ringo was sleeping with Big Nose Kate.

00:22:38.490 --> 00:22:41.930
who was famously Doc Holliday's spouse. Don't

00:22:41.930 --> 00:22:44.970
we all fucking love Big Nose Kate? Yeah, don't

00:22:44.970 --> 00:22:48.710
we all? And Doc Holliday threatened to kill Johnny

00:22:48.710 --> 00:22:51.450
Ringo multiple times as a result of him banging

00:22:51.450 --> 00:22:55.089
his prostitute girlfriend's spouse's wife. This

00:22:55.089 --> 00:22:58.109
might go on the Spice Rack, but holy shit. Is

00:22:58.109 --> 00:23:02.589
Big Nose Kate Jewish? She is a Hungarian Jewish

00:23:02.589 --> 00:23:08.200
woman, yes. Fuck. Lived outside. She also survived.

00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:12.200
She actually lived in the Arizona home for settlers.

00:23:12.339 --> 00:23:15.420
So she was one of the women that lived on the

00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:19.200
public dole in Arizona in her old age. What a

00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:23.299
goddamn fucking nickname, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:25.980
Well, she left Doc Holliday to go prostituting.

00:23:26.019 --> 00:23:27.779
And then, of course, the Earps abandoned her.

00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:30.000
So all the money the Earps made, she could have

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.579
had part of that being part of their gang. Sure.

00:23:32.619 --> 00:23:38.180
And then she left. So, yeah. Fuck. There we go.

00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.539
Yeah. Let's fucking big nose Kate, Jesus Christ.

00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:45.920
Big nose Kate. That's the funniest thing I've

00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:48.019
heard in a long time. Yeah, she was a Jewish

00:23:48.019 --> 00:23:50.980
woman of Hungarian descent. Okay. And her nose

00:23:50.980 --> 00:23:54.299
wasn't that big. Well, I'm sure. It was big,

00:23:54.460 --> 00:23:58.549
but it wasn't like. Cyrano de Borgiac. Well,

00:23:58.690 --> 00:24:00.710
you know what? In the 1800s, they didn't pull

00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.410
many punches out there. So a cigar check, Mike.

00:24:03.609 --> 00:24:05.930
I'm a little over halfway, I think. Oh, God.

00:24:06.009 --> 00:24:09.109
I'm not even a quarter. You're not even a quarter?

00:24:09.250 --> 00:24:11.890
We're half an hour into this thing. I know. I

00:24:11.890 --> 00:24:14.430
know. I'm being a naughty boy. I'm not. How do

00:24:14.430 --> 00:24:18.210
you like it? It's fine. It's not offensive, I

00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:20.049
guess. I'll say that. It's not offensive. It's

00:24:20.049 --> 00:24:23.890
not to my taste preferences. I'll also add. So

00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:27.269
it's fine. It's actually not offensive at all.

00:24:27.490 --> 00:24:31.230
It's okay. You know, it's not one that I would

00:24:31.230 --> 00:24:33.509
go out and be like, hey, I got to smoke a non

00:24:33.509 --> 00:24:36.450
-Raphael. But I'm not necessarily not going to

00:24:36.450 --> 00:24:40.009
smoke one if that's what's there. And if, you

00:24:40.009 --> 00:24:42.269
know, fucking Johnny Ringo offers me one, goddamn,

00:24:42.430 --> 00:24:44.470
I'm going to smoke it, of course. Fucking A.

00:24:45.250 --> 00:24:48.440
It does go well with bourbon. Well, anything

00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.880
does, really. That's also true. You know what

00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:54.680
else goes well with bourbon? Big nose cake. Better

00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:57.140
cigars. Big nose cake. Yeah, well, whiskey does

00:24:57.140 --> 00:25:01.099
for sure. And tuberculosis. Tuberculosis and

00:25:01.099 --> 00:25:05.740
whiskey. Yeah, and the syphilis. Anyway. Sorry,

00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.640
big nose. I carry on. So this is a variant of

00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.079
the Wyatt Earp claim. Basically, the idea is

00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:13.039
that they were riding together and it just happened

00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:15.240
to be Doc Holliday that killed him and not Wyatt

00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.099
Earp. Sure, sure. They could have been riding

00:25:17.099 --> 00:25:19.880
with their cabin boy. Tommy, and it could have

00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:22.440
been Tommy. Yeah, it could have been Jack Johnson.

00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.119
It could have been any of these guys who were

00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:27.019
part of the Earp crew. But specifically Doc Holliday

00:25:27.019 --> 00:25:29.140
because it's romantic because, like I said, he

00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:32.240
had personal beef. Now, there is a pretty serious

00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.680
issue with this, and that is that Doc Holliday

00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:38.640
was facing legal charges in Colorado at the time

00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:40.819
of Johnny Ringo's death, and we know he was in

00:25:40.819 --> 00:25:42.480
Colorado, and we know that Wyatt Earp visited

00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:44.420
him there. And we know Wyatt Earp wasn't even

00:25:44.420 --> 00:25:46.319
there. So Wyatt Earp wasn't there, Doc Holliday

00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:48.079
wasn't there, so it couldn't have been either.

00:25:48.109 --> 00:25:50.869
Either of them, really. That is correct. Ooh,

00:25:51.029 --> 00:25:53.509
is there one? I hope the juicy one is Big Nose

00:25:53.509 --> 00:25:55.269
Kate did it. That would be fucking awesome, but

00:25:55.269 --> 00:25:57.910
I think that... Man, these conspiracy theorists

00:25:57.910 --> 00:26:00.470
need better imaginations. Yeah, yeah. Big Nose

00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:02.430
Kate should have done it to alleviate tensions

00:26:02.430 --> 00:26:04.829
with Doc. I don't know. Well, yeah, she got to

00:26:04.829 --> 00:26:07.369
get, you know, foresight being what it is. She

00:26:07.369 --> 00:26:09.829
needed that ERP money. I'm going to write my

00:26:09.829 --> 00:26:12.109
fanfic. I'm shipping hard. There we go. There

00:26:12.109 --> 00:26:15.210
we go. So this one has more credence, this next

00:26:15.210 --> 00:26:17.390
theory. Okay. I didn't mean to throw you off

00:26:17.390 --> 00:26:20.109
your groove, Mike. No, no. No, no. Yeah, my groove.

00:26:20.289 --> 00:26:23.710
My groove. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, this next theory,

00:26:23.869 --> 00:26:26.210
the next couple ones have more weight. Okay.

00:26:26.410 --> 00:26:29.029
There's a theory that Doc Holliday was killed

00:26:29.029 --> 00:26:33.210
by a gentleman named Buckskin Frank Leslie. And

00:26:33.210 --> 00:26:37.980
Frank Leslie was a notorious gunman. He has a

00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:40.519
long checkered history. We'll go into some of

00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:44.720
that. But he is a known casual murderer and scumbag

00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.200
who killed both men and women extremely casually.

00:26:48.579 --> 00:26:50.539
Okay. He was also known to be - Kind of like

00:26:50.539 --> 00:26:54.339
the United Healthcare CEO? Exactly. Exactly.

00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:57.420
Okay. He was also known to be in a beef with

00:26:57.420 --> 00:27:01.759
Ringo over a woman, which is a theme. Well, that

00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:03.559
was one of my guesses for why the other guy got

00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:06.400
shot in the bar. Yep, it is, it is. At least

00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.500
this time it's not Big Nose Kate, right? Right,

00:27:08.539 --> 00:27:10.759
right, right. It's Tight Box Kelly or something,

00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:15.480
isn't it? Tight Box Kelly. Oh, my God. Anyway.

00:27:15.579 --> 00:27:17.440
I thought we were just making up nicknames now.

00:27:17.500 --> 00:27:19.420
I don't know. That's true. He actually did marry

00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:22.299
a woman named May, and he was caught sleeping

00:27:22.299 --> 00:27:24.759
with her, shot her husband, and then married

00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:27.980
her. Then they say romance is dead. Yeah, they

00:27:27.980 --> 00:27:30.140
say romance is dead. But yeah, Frank Leslie at

00:27:30.140 --> 00:27:32.160
least was in Tombstone at the time. He owned

00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.880
a ranch and he was involved in the town. He's

00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:36.779
one of these scumbags that were floating around

00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:39.839
at the time. Doesn't have an alibi. He's there.

00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.880
Right. Also, he confessed to the murder when

00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:45.799
he was in jail for, guess what? Shooting somebody

00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:48.160
else? He murdered his stable hand and his wife

00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.579
and his mistress. Oh. I think that... Clean slate

00:27:52.579 --> 00:27:55.819
for that guy, right? Yeah, yeah. I think he killed

00:27:55.819 --> 00:27:57.980
the mistress and the stable boy and was caught

00:27:57.980 --> 00:28:01.160
after he killed his wife because his wife was

00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:03.859
jealous or something like that. She was jealous

00:28:03.859 --> 00:28:06.400
everyone else got killed and she didn't? Right,

00:28:06.859 --> 00:28:11.099
exactly. Leave that guy alone. He's on a bender.

00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:13.380
He's going to get you. Just smile and nod and

00:28:13.380 --> 00:28:15.200
go to some other state because he'll never find

00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.589
you. Yeah, there's some issues with this, of

00:28:17.589 --> 00:28:19.849
course. This claim came many years after the

00:28:19.849 --> 00:28:22.789
fact, and it came when he was already in jail

00:28:22.789 --> 00:28:25.450
and he was being interviewed by a newspaper.

00:28:25.869 --> 00:28:27.950
Okay. There's no contemporary evidence that he

00:28:27.950 --> 00:28:30.789
was in the area. He was in Tombstone, like he

00:28:30.789 --> 00:28:33.930
was in Arizona in that area, but he wasn't spotted

00:28:33.930 --> 00:28:38.049
like there, there. And also he was known to be

00:28:38.049 --> 00:28:41.329
a liar and kind of these tall tales, Western

00:28:41.329 --> 00:28:46.299
fable type characters, similar to wild. Yeah,

00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:49.680
I'm sure glad the tall tale telling politicians

00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:52.819
and things have kind of died out in our society.

00:28:53.059 --> 00:28:54.880
Yeah, yeah. He was similar to a Buffalo Bill

00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:57.839
Cody, except Bill Cody didn't murder people often.

00:28:59.900 --> 00:29:03.579
He wasn't going around and just killing men and

00:29:03.579 --> 00:29:08.099
women constantly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Jeffrey

00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:13.259
Dahmer, no, but... You know, other people maybe.

00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.240
Right. So there's another variant. There's two

00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:17.019
of these. These next two are variants of the

00:29:17.019 --> 00:29:20.720
same idea. And that was that Ringo was assassinated

00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:23.019
by another member of the cowboy gang. And the

00:29:23.019 --> 00:29:26.019
idea is that one of his gang members killed him.

00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:29.079
There's support to this because Ringo was hated

00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:32.619
by every person that knew him, including members

00:29:32.619 --> 00:29:35.640
of his own gang. But not Big Nose Kate. But not

00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:39.890
Big Nose Kate. I think she hated Doc Holliday

00:29:39.890 --> 00:29:43.630
more is probably the reason why. But he was hated

00:29:43.630 --> 00:29:46.670
and feared because of his violence, even amongst

00:29:46.670 --> 00:29:49.589
other criminals like himself. And he would randomly

00:29:49.589 --> 00:29:52.529
kill people for no reason, obviously. And he

00:29:52.529 --> 00:29:55.549
was very, very dangerous. Also, the cowboys were

00:29:55.549 --> 00:29:57.430
falling apart at that time. They had a lot of

00:29:57.430 --> 00:29:59.210
pressure on him by Wyatt Earp. So there was a

00:29:59.210 --> 00:30:01.829
lot of infighting. And it's speculated that he

00:30:01.829 --> 00:30:04.710
might have been killed for those reasons. I mean,

00:30:04.710 --> 00:30:08.009
it's hard to keep a gang together when you're...

00:30:08.109 --> 00:30:10.190
The opposing gang has, like, the state and federal

00:30:10.190 --> 00:30:12.809
money to pursue you and kill you. That is true.

00:30:12.950 --> 00:30:14.970
They also had, that's the thing about the Cowboys,

00:30:15.029 --> 00:30:17.430
is they had the sheriff's department and marshals

00:30:17.430 --> 00:30:19.829
on their side, too. All these little wars that

00:30:19.829 --> 00:30:22.670
happened in the Southwest, both sides had lawmen

00:30:22.670 --> 00:30:24.930
on their side. They just happened to have, you

00:30:24.930 --> 00:30:27.390
know, the Cochise County Sheriff versus the fucking

00:30:27.390 --> 00:30:29.869
whatever county sheriff. And then the, you know,

00:30:29.910 --> 00:30:32.269
they had two different factions of law enforcement

00:30:32.269 --> 00:30:34.470
fighting each other, basically. But yeah, the

00:30:34.470 --> 00:30:37.539
Cowboys had lawmen on their side. Oh, yeah. It

00:30:37.539 --> 00:30:39.880
was kind of, you know, we remember the Alamo

00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:42.420
for everybody, Manifest Destiny and yada yada

00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:45.920
out there at that time. So the problem with this

00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.140
is that nobody claimed, nobody in the gang claimed

00:30:48.140 --> 00:30:50.359
that they killed him, and it probably would have

00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:52.059
become, it probably would not have been secret

00:30:52.059 --> 00:30:53.920
if it was a member of his own gang. Let's put

00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:56.880
it that way. Yeah, I mean, potentially. Potentially,

00:30:57.019 --> 00:30:58.980
potentially. I mean, kind of like, you know,

00:30:59.019 --> 00:31:01.779
the gang politics, though, right? I mean, if

00:31:01.779 --> 00:31:03.960
you kill the big gang boss, are you going to

00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:06.710
brag about it? Or are you going to... Take, you

00:31:06.710 --> 00:31:08.930
know, like, so who took, who took over the gang

00:31:08.930 --> 00:31:10.730
after that? Well, the Clantons were in charge

00:31:10.730 --> 00:31:12.509
of the gang. The Clantons were in charge of the

00:31:12.509 --> 00:31:14.750
gang. Ringo was kind of like a hitman sort of

00:31:14.750 --> 00:31:16.710
thing. Like he was like one of the big wigs,

00:31:16.710 --> 00:31:19.210
but he wasn't, he wasn't like, he was like a

00:31:19.210 --> 00:31:22.130
capo. He wasn't like a, like a Don. Yep. Right.

00:31:22.230 --> 00:31:25.089
But. Well, you know, capos, if capos get out

00:31:25.089 --> 00:31:26.849
of the line, you got to clip them, you know?

00:31:26.890 --> 00:31:29.369
Well, exactly. Exactly. And then you don't ever

00:31:29.369 --> 00:31:31.549
tell. Like, why would you tell? There's no reason

00:31:31.549 --> 00:31:33.609
to tell. That is true. Because everyone knows.

00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:36.430
Everyone in the gang anyway, right? So this next

00:31:36.430 --> 00:31:39.490
theory is possible. I like it. I like it. The

00:31:39.490 --> 00:31:41.750
next theory is that he was recognized by a random

00:31:41.750 --> 00:31:44.410
passerby and was shot, and then it was set up

00:31:44.410 --> 00:31:46.930
as a suicide. Okay. And there's many variants

00:31:46.930 --> 00:31:49.109
to that, but it was, like, not somebody that

00:31:49.109 --> 00:31:51.670
we know of, just a random passerby who did not

00:31:51.670 --> 00:31:54.190
like Ringo for some reason. Sure, maybe he stole

00:31:54.190 --> 00:31:56.869
some cattle from him or whatever. absolutely

00:31:56.869 --> 00:31:59.670
and this was a popular road and he was in the

00:31:59.670 --> 00:32:01.930
middle of cattle country like any of these fucking

00:32:01.930 --> 00:32:04.769
guys could have seen him and shot him and nobody

00:32:04.769 --> 00:32:07.089
would have said a fucking word washing his fucking

00:32:07.089 --> 00:32:11.430
dirty cattle rustling washing exactly so the

00:32:11.430 --> 00:32:14.869
details do lead to the idea that he was murdered

00:32:14.869 --> 00:32:17.930
for example he didn't have powder burns on his

00:32:17.930 --> 00:32:21.109
body he was not in a natural seating position

00:32:21.109 --> 00:32:23.890
he was clearly these the people who saw him thought

00:32:23.890 --> 00:32:25.990
he was placed there the body could have been

00:32:25.990 --> 00:32:28.210
moved after the fact you never know well and

00:32:28.210 --> 00:32:31.150
you know it also kind of depends because if you

00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:34.230
are standing up and this is not i'm not trying

00:32:34.230 --> 00:32:35.990
to be morbid i'm just i'm just trying to say

00:32:35.990 --> 00:32:39.089
like i've seen some some tv shows and some films

00:32:39.089 --> 00:32:41.799
and shit if you stand up and shoot yourself you're

00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:43.859
going to fall in probably a not very natural

00:32:43.859 --> 00:32:45.900
way. I mean, it'll be natural because that's

00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:47.619
what you do when you die, right? I mean, that's

00:32:47.619 --> 00:32:48.900
like a natural thing. Well, he was in a seated

00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:52.380
position. Sure. He was found in a seated position.

00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:55.180
But in a seated position that would lead people

00:32:55.180 --> 00:32:57.259
to believe that he did not sit down, shoot himself,

00:32:57.539 --> 00:33:00.519
and then die. He was in a position that did not

00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:03.119
appear like he sat there himself. Sure. Yes.

00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:06.900
Okay. Okay. So. That's fair. Also, they didn't

00:33:06.900 --> 00:33:08.900
have good, they had no ballistics, basically.

00:33:09.339 --> 00:33:12.319
So there's no way to tell what size bullet hit

00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:14.440
him. We gotta bring this slug down. To the lab.

00:33:14.740 --> 00:33:18.180
Yeah, exactly. Sir, the lab will not be invented

00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:22.359
for another hundred years. Right. And one of

00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:24.220
the things that really stuck out to me was that

00:33:24.220 --> 00:33:27.039
his revolver gun belt was upside down. Yeah.

00:33:27.099 --> 00:33:29.660
And there was no holster or method to holster

00:33:29.660 --> 00:33:32.599
a pistol on his body. And he wasn't holding it

00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:35.240
in his pants. So he clearly left his gun belt

00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:37.440
on his fucking horse. You know what I mean? Like

00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:40.599
he didn't have his, he had a rifle and a pistol,

00:33:40.660 --> 00:33:43.740
but no way to hold his pistol. His rifle wasn't

00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:46.099
on the horse. And this wouldn't necessarily be

00:33:46.099 --> 00:33:49.019
100 % telling, because Lord knows what he might

00:33:49.019 --> 00:33:52.299
be shooting at. Did they open up the cylinder

00:33:52.299 --> 00:33:55.140
of his revolver to see if one shell was fired?

00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:58.119
One shell exactly was fired, and it was the one

00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:00.599
that the hammer was resting on. However, at that

00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:04.180
time... It was not uncommon for people to purposefully

00:34:04.180 --> 00:34:06.740
do that if they were writing actively. Yes. Because

00:34:06.740 --> 00:34:09.860
the pistol could go off accidentally while writing.

00:34:09.940 --> 00:34:12.860
So... 100%. Inconclusive. Yeah. Inconclusive.

00:34:12.860 --> 00:34:18.559
That is... It was on an empty shell, but... Yep.

00:34:18.659 --> 00:34:23.289
Yeah. Yeah. Not 100 % inconclusive, but... doesn't

00:34:23.289 --> 00:34:26.369
help other than it could potentially have been

00:34:26.369 --> 00:34:29.130
his gun that killed him. Exactly, exactly. And,

00:34:29.230 --> 00:34:31.510
well, funnily enough, Wyatt Earp famously almost

00:34:31.510 --> 00:34:33.809
shot himself to death with his own pistol, writing.

00:34:33.989 --> 00:34:36.610
So, like, it was common knowledge that you could

00:34:36.610 --> 00:34:39.710
fucking kill yourself, you know. Like, you could.

00:34:39.949 --> 00:34:42.590
So, anyways. Well, and if only more people took

00:34:42.590 --> 00:34:45.989
the same care they did in the 1800s. The gun

00:34:45.989 --> 00:34:47.650
went off, I was cleaning it. Oh, I love that

00:34:47.650 --> 00:34:50.389
one. Oh, fuck. That one is the worst excuse I've

00:34:50.389 --> 00:34:52.369
ever heard. Like, that's just a cover -up. Yeah.

00:34:52.590 --> 00:34:55.130
That's just a cover up. Nobody cleans their gun

00:34:55.130 --> 00:34:56.949
with a bullet in the trigger. But that's a conspiracy

00:34:56.949 --> 00:35:00.710
theory for another episode. Yes, yes, yes. And

00:35:00.710 --> 00:35:04.769
we have one last one. And this one also is possible.

00:35:05.030 --> 00:35:08.030
So the last two here are the most likely, right?

00:35:08.090 --> 00:35:10.630
Okay. Yep. And this last one makes a lot of sense.

00:35:10.769 --> 00:35:12.449
And this is called the Michael O 'Rourke theory.

00:35:12.730 --> 00:35:14.710
Okay. Some people think that Michael O 'Rourke,

00:35:14.730 --> 00:35:16.949
who was an itinerant gambler, who was in the

00:35:16.949 --> 00:35:20.760
area, killed Ringo. And there's two reasons why

00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.340
he would want to kill Ringo. He was arrested

00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:28.059
in January 81 in Tucson for murdering a mining

00:35:28.059 --> 00:35:31.780
engineer named Henry Schneider. Ringo attempted

00:35:31.780 --> 00:35:35.019
to lead a lynch mob and break him out of jail

00:35:35.019 --> 00:35:38.480
and lynch him on the street. And Wyatt Earp broke

00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.699
up this lynch mob. Sure. It's prevented him from

00:35:42.699 --> 00:35:46.159
being. And he went to trial, no evidence was

00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:49.480
found, and he was released, okay? Sure. I have

00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.059
a couple questions. One, is there a reason why

00:35:52.059 --> 00:35:54.739
Johnny Ringo wanted to lynch this man? I believe

00:35:54.739 --> 00:35:57.460
it was gang politics because Michael O 'Rourke

00:35:57.460 --> 00:36:00.659
was tied with the Earp faction in this battle.

00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:03.059
So it was just like, we're going to lynch one

00:36:03.059 --> 00:36:05.960
of the allies of our rival kind of thing. Sure,

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.860
sure. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, there's additional

00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:10.639
information for this. Sure. The last known sighting

00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:13.969
of O 'Rourke was in Tombstone. earlier it was

00:36:13.969 --> 00:36:16.849
in 81 so he he disappeared off the record in

00:36:16.849 --> 00:36:19.449
81 and this murder occurred in 82 but he was

00:36:19.449 --> 00:36:22.969
known to be in that area a frequenter of those

00:36:22.969 --> 00:36:25.550
parts he was a frequenter of those parts he was

00:36:25.550 --> 00:36:29.000
also known to be a member of the erp clique And

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:32.340
he owed Wyatt Earp a ton of money. Sure. And

00:36:32.340 --> 00:36:34.719
he also had a personal grudge against Ringo.

00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.880
And we know that Wyatt Earp forgave him his debts.

00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:39.579
He never went and looked for him afterwards,

00:36:39.860 --> 00:36:43.019
which is out of character for a guy who is a,

00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:44.679
you know, Shylock, I believe is what they call

00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:47.739
them. Okay. So yeah, there's no reason why Wyatt

00:36:47.739 --> 00:36:49.980
Earp would just allow this guy to walk without

00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:53.420
paying him back. Right. So he did something for

00:36:53.420 --> 00:36:56.440
Wyatt Earp. to make him not hunt him down. But

00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:58.699
yeah, somehow this guy paid White Earp back and

00:36:58.699 --> 00:37:01.820
then had enough resources left over to disappear.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.000
Like, you know, just disappear off the record

00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.619
and walk away. And it was no longer Michael O

00:37:06.619 --> 00:37:08.619
'Rourke. He was some other person. And that was

00:37:08.619 --> 00:37:11.579
also a common theme amongst these guys. You know,

00:37:11.579 --> 00:37:14.320
their background stories changed. Yeah, well,

00:37:14.420 --> 00:37:18.440
and there was no database back then. It was very

00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:21.710
easy to do. You could go to one town and be Michael

00:37:21.710 --> 00:37:23.789
O 'Rourke. You could go to another town and be,

00:37:23.809 --> 00:37:27.130
you know, Seamus McGarry or whatever the fuck,

00:37:27.190 --> 00:37:29.489
right? Right. Well, like buckskin Frank Leslie

00:37:29.489 --> 00:37:31.829
claimed to be an army scout and wore buckskins,

00:37:31.849 --> 00:37:34.510
but apparently he had no tracking skills. Yeah.

00:37:34.590 --> 00:37:36.949
So, you know, he just probably just made it up.

00:37:36.969 --> 00:37:38.389
He was just a fucking gambler and a murderer

00:37:38.389 --> 00:37:40.909
and a degenerate. Yeah, he killed some dude wearing

00:37:40.909 --> 00:37:43.349
buckskins and it was the same size as him and

00:37:43.349 --> 00:37:46.610
he put them on. Now he's a tracker guy that can't

00:37:46.610 --> 00:37:48.469
track. And like a lot of these guys, like Frank

00:37:48.469 --> 00:37:50.849
Leslie specifically, he just like one day said,

00:37:50.909 --> 00:37:52.730
I'm going to Mexico and he just disappeared.

00:37:53.449 --> 00:37:56.000
So. And Michael O 'Rourke's the same thing. Like,

00:37:56.019 --> 00:37:58.119
he was hanging out in Tombstone, owed a shit

00:37:58.119 --> 00:38:01.119
ton of money to Wyatt Earp, also wanted to murder

00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:03.920
Johnny Ringo. Ringo died and he disappears. You

00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:06.139
know what I mean? Yeah. It could be coincidence.

00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:08.980
Could be. He could have paid him back some other

00:38:08.980 --> 00:38:10.820
way. Because Wyatt Earp was on the run from the

00:38:10.820 --> 00:38:13.599
law for a while as well. Sure, yeah. Even though

00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:16.019
he was also a marshal. That's why this is so

00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:18.159
fucked up. He was a U .S. marshal, but he was

00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:19.760
on the run from other U .S. marshals who were

00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:21.809
trying to arrest him. But he was also trying

00:38:21.809 --> 00:38:24.110
to arrest these other guys. And it's like, it's

00:38:24.110 --> 00:38:28.050
very confusing at best. It's like Billy the Kid's

00:38:28.050 --> 00:38:30.889
story, right? Oh, sure. They're all deputies.

00:38:31.789 --> 00:38:35.070
You have these two gangs of sheriff's deputies

00:38:35.070 --> 00:38:36.670
battling each other from different counties.

00:38:37.030 --> 00:38:39.250
But yeah, that's the high and the low of it.

00:38:39.269 --> 00:38:41.889
I think those are all of the conspiracy theories

00:38:41.889 --> 00:38:45.369
that I could dig up. Sure, yeah. So not a terrible

00:38:45.369 --> 00:38:48.889
little section. Which one do you most associate?

00:38:51.070 --> 00:38:53.969
I think is most true. Well, I think that the

00:38:53.969 --> 00:38:56.530
evidence is against Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday

00:38:56.530 --> 00:38:58.809
doing it. Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing with

00:38:58.809 --> 00:39:01.050
the fucking Mussolini thing where it's like,

00:39:01.210 --> 00:39:03.650
yeah, it's a huge feather in your cap if it was

00:39:03.650 --> 00:39:06.210
you, dude, but it wasn't you. Right. Yeah. Like

00:39:06.210 --> 00:39:08.389
we know Doc Holliday was in fucking in trouble

00:39:08.389 --> 00:39:10.829
with the law in Colorado and was showing up to

00:39:10.829 --> 00:39:13.510
arraignments and he was in a hospital there too

00:39:13.510 --> 00:39:16.690
for a while. Yep. For tuberculosis. And we know

00:39:16.690 --> 00:39:19.170
that Wyatt Earp was either California, Colorado,

00:39:19.369 --> 00:39:22.139
in between, like, He was not there. Yeah, he

00:39:22.139 --> 00:39:24.000
didn't really have the time to go and do this

00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.639
thing. No, he did not have the time. It just

00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:29.780
doesn't work out that way. Yeah, travel time.

00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:32.059
Despite the claims, the multiple claims that

00:39:32.059 --> 00:39:34.260
Wyatt Earp made that he killed him over the years.

00:39:35.059 --> 00:39:37.840
That's kind of like Doc Holliday is this famed

00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.739
gunman or gunslinger. He never committed a murder.

00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:43.219
Every single killing that he did was either a

00:39:43.219 --> 00:39:45.820
part of a law enforcement action or was a stabbing

00:39:45.820 --> 00:39:48.260
at a poker table and it was considered self -defense.

00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:51.039
Sure. So, like he did. kill a lot of people don't

00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:52.940
get me wrong but he was also like a sheriff's

00:39:52.940 --> 00:39:55.599
deputy and a u .s marshal and he did it by the

00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:58.760
book yeah yeah he's like on the right side of

00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:01.780
the law he's a dentist like yeah yeah so and

00:40:01.780 --> 00:40:04.260
then frank leslie i mean he's just a scumbag

00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:07.000
who killed lots of people and surely if he would

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:08.420
have killed ringo he would have bragged about

00:40:08.420 --> 00:40:10.480
it immediately like he would have been he would

00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:12.539
have went to the newspaper and talked about it

00:40:12.539 --> 00:40:15.199
not waited for him Like wait until he was in

00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:17.420
jail on murder charges, double murder charges.

00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:20.260
Yeah. The same with the outlaw. Like if he was

00:40:20.260 --> 00:40:22.199
killed by one of the Clantons, they would have

00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:25.780
admitted to it. Probably. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah.

00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:30.159
I feel like for me, the random passerby theory

00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:33.119
is pretty good. You know, like, uh, cause it's

00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:35.860
almost like the Thanos thing in the Marvel universe,

00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:38.739
right? Where the person is like, you killed my

00:40:38.739 --> 00:40:40.360
whole family. And he's like, I don't even know

00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:42.530
who you are. Right. So he pissed off somebody

00:40:42.530 --> 00:40:45.269
who had a vendetta and he's like, this guy's

00:40:45.269 --> 00:40:46.969
like, holy fuck, there's that guy that I have

00:40:46.969 --> 00:40:49.090
this huge vendetta against and I'm going to go

00:40:49.090 --> 00:40:51.449
kill him. And, you know, Johnny Ringo's like,

00:40:51.570 --> 00:40:53.300
I don't even know who you are. Like, I don't

00:40:53.300 --> 00:40:55.239
remember stealing that shit from you, but I guess

00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:57.340
I did or whatever. Or maybe, you know, whatever.

00:40:57.440 --> 00:40:59.380
Maybe he stole his whole, like, cattle. And the

00:40:59.380 --> 00:41:01.699
guy couldn't afford to feed his family that winter.

00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:03.559
And they had to, like, I don't know, eat one

00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:05.260
of their legs or something. I don't know. Whatever

00:41:05.260 --> 00:41:07.960
the fuck, right? Absolutely. And some, like,

00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.199
atrocity. And then this guy, and he thought nothing

00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:11.820
of it. And then this guy is like, holy shit,

00:41:11.900 --> 00:41:13.719
there's the guy that, like, upended my whole

00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:15.480
world. I'm going to go kill him. And then that

00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:17.840
was that. Yep. And then the other one is kind

00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:20.820
of like, if it was a gang thing, the gangs don't

00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:24.719
necessarily. care about publicity. So they wouldn't

00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:26.920
have gone to the newspaper or made a big, bold

00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:29.239
claim about it, depending on which gang it was

00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:34.579
and how, I don't know, self -grandiosizing, what

00:41:34.579 --> 00:41:37.219
is the word, Mike? Self, you know, like they

00:41:37.219 --> 00:41:38.519
don't want to like pump themselves up. Grandisement.

00:41:38.619 --> 00:41:40.780
Yeah, grandisement. They don't need to do that.

00:41:40.980 --> 00:41:43.320
They're a gang. They're like, hey man, this guy

00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.039
that stepped out of line, we took care of him.

00:41:45.099 --> 00:41:47.000
Don't step out of line, the rest of you. And

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:48.809
then that's it. That was the message. It wasn't

00:41:48.809 --> 00:41:51.730
for the people. It was for the gang, right? So

00:41:51.730 --> 00:41:53.769
they wouldn't necessarily go to the authorities

00:41:53.769 --> 00:41:56.670
or newspapers or what have you. Yeah. The Michael

00:41:56.670 --> 00:41:59.550
O 'Rourke theory is fine. I think that it's less

00:41:59.550 --> 00:42:03.590
likely. Yeah, it's not a bad one. It's not unplausible.

00:42:03.610 --> 00:42:06.730
It's very possible. But I do think that the most

00:42:06.730 --> 00:42:09.989
likely solution was that a random passerby who

00:42:09.989 --> 00:42:13.010
was wronged by Ringo shot him. And then chased

00:42:13.010 --> 00:42:15.710
his, either the horse got chased off in the process.

00:42:15.869 --> 00:42:18.130
Yeah. Or he chased the horse off after the fact.

00:42:18.269 --> 00:42:20.110
Yeah. And then put his gun belts on real quick

00:42:20.110 --> 00:42:22.550
and staged it. Sure. And you have to imagine,

00:42:22.750 --> 00:42:25.130
and this is further to your point, like this

00:42:25.130 --> 00:42:27.369
is a known criminal. Everybody hates his fucking

00:42:27.369 --> 00:42:30.849
guts. Nobody's going to question him being dead,

00:42:31.030 --> 00:42:33.070
right? Nobody is going to question. Oh, he's

00:42:33.070 --> 00:42:36.869
dead. So let's say you are a minor. or a townsperson,

00:42:36.869 --> 00:42:40.530
or a rancher, or a ranch hand, or whoever, and

00:42:40.530 --> 00:42:43.210
you happen to be, like, bed -crossed by Johnny

00:42:43.210 --> 00:42:46.130
Ringo, and you see him, you could fucking shoot

00:42:46.130 --> 00:42:48.349
him and get away with it. He was 700 feet from

00:42:48.349 --> 00:42:50.449
a house. Like, one of the Smiths could have shot

00:42:50.449 --> 00:42:52.670
him. And no, they were right there. You're town

00:42:52.670 --> 00:42:55.309
extra number three, and you can shoot him and

00:42:55.309 --> 00:42:57.010
get away with it. That is correct. Like in the

00:42:57.010 --> 00:42:59.449
Hollywood movie. You're town extra number three.

00:43:00.230 --> 00:43:02.610
Yeah. Even if they knew you did it, they would

00:43:02.610 --> 00:43:05.320
not say a word. Well, why would they? They saved

00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:08.000
all their cattle for the rest of their lifetimes,

00:43:08.019 --> 00:43:11.800
basically. Exactly. Exactly. So it's not unlikely.

00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:16.639
The lack of powder burns is a real problem for

00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:19.079
me. Yeah. Part of his skull being missing or

00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:20.460
part of his scalp being missing. That's fucking

00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:23.300
weird. It's weird, but that was kind of normal

00:43:23.300 --> 00:43:25.139
behavior for the time. So it could have been

00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:27.539
one of the coroner guys that cut it off. Yeah.

00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:29.579
Was it normal behavior of whites or could it

00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:32.489
have actually been like a Native American? almost

00:43:32.489 --> 00:43:35.269
undoubtedly a white guy scalping was was started

00:43:35.269 --> 00:43:38.469
by white people and so it was like within the

00:43:38.469 --> 00:43:41.570
normal range people saved hair and made trinkets

00:43:41.570 --> 00:43:43.789
out of it and all kinds of weird shit yeah well

00:43:43.789 --> 00:43:46.530
i thought some tribes did some tribes did do

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.260
do the scalping, but not all tribes, from what

00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:51.440
I understood. Some did do the scalping, largely

00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:55.820
in retribution towards scalp hunting. So from

00:43:55.820 --> 00:43:58.780
my understanding, Native American scalps were

00:43:58.780 --> 00:44:02.340
sold in European markets to rich people. So it

00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:05.659
was a trade. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.659
It's a very weird problem, kind of like eating

00:44:08.659 --> 00:44:10.880
mummies back in the day. Yeah, I remember that.

00:44:11.059 --> 00:44:13.599
Would you like your hat made out of beaver skin?

00:44:13.659 --> 00:44:16.869
Or we also have Native American. American hair.

00:44:17.110 --> 00:44:21.670
Yeah. You'll be the talk of the town in Paris.

00:44:23.050 --> 00:44:25.590
So, real weird, I mean, for a modern audience,

00:44:25.809 --> 00:44:29.710
very strange. Well, yeah. We can't even really

00:44:29.710 --> 00:44:32.690
relate because we weren't there. No, we're not

00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:34.869
there. Weird times. It's a cultural norm. I mean,

00:44:34.929 --> 00:44:38.980
like I say. Like, for this class of people, killing

00:44:38.980 --> 00:44:41.679
people was like a normal course of life. And

00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:43.860
they were in jail multiple times and somehow

00:44:43.860 --> 00:44:47.219
got off for murder charges. Because if you didn't

00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:49.460
have an eyewitness that would testify, you're

00:44:49.460 --> 00:44:52.920
pretty much, you know, free to go. Right? Well,

00:44:53.099 --> 00:44:57.099
it's almost like, and I don't know, I mean, I've

00:44:57.099 --> 00:44:59.920
been reading a lot about piracy, the golden age

00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:02.440
of piracy. And a lot of it was kind of like,

00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:07.250
it's a huge problem, yada yada. And certain country

00:45:07.250 --> 00:45:10.190
leaders, kings or what have you, would offer

00:45:10.190 --> 00:45:12.449
letters of remark basically saying, you can go

00:45:12.449 --> 00:45:14.570
and hunt our enemies. We don't give a fuck. And

00:45:14.570 --> 00:45:16.650
you'll be protected by us. So, you know, if you

00:45:16.650 --> 00:45:18.809
were at war with Spain, you'd offer a letter

00:45:18.809 --> 00:45:20.909
of remark to all the pirates. And they were suddenly

00:45:20.909 --> 00:45:23.090
not pirates anymore. And they were now your,

00:45:23.190 --> 00:45:25.090
I don't know, an extension of your military.

00:45:25.309 --> 00:45:27.730
They were privateers. They were called privateers.

00:45:29.630 --> 00:45:31.730
And it's almost the same at the Wild West because

00:45:31.730 --> 00:45:34.110
all of these people were lawmen at some point.

00:45:34.170 --> 00:45:36.849
Not all of them, in a sense, but they were all

00:45:36.849 --> 00:45:38.949
kind of like competing factions of law. And the

00:45:38.949 --> 00:45:43.590
law wasn't one solid, unified entity. It was

00:45:43.590 --> 00:45:46.050
very much the our county is better than your

00:45:46.050 --> 00:45:48.030
county or our state is better than your state

00:45:48.030 --> 00:45:50.909
or what have you. And we like these people, so

00:45:50.909 --> 00:45:52.730
we're going to give them sanction and not you

00:45:52.730 --> 00:45:55.389
and blah, blah, blah. And so, you know, some

00:45:55.389 --> 00:45:57.909
of these people acted with the authority as if

00:45:57.909 --> 00:46:01.349
everybody. Everybody supported their actions

00:46:01.349 --> 00:46:03.429
when really only a small faction did. But if

00:46:03.429 --> 00:46:04.929
it was the right faction, then it didn't matter.

00:46:05.110 --> 00:46:08.230
So it was very much like, I guess the equivalent

00:46:08.230 --> 00:46:10.909
would be kind of gangland violence in a sense.

00:46:11.170 --> 00:46:14.050
Very much so. And the cowboys, as I say, one

00:46:14.050 --> 00:46:16.170
of the very, very early examples of organized

00:46:16.170 --> 00:46:18.349
crime in the Western United States. And they

00:46:18.349 --> 00:46:21.869
had sheriffs and judges and U .S. marshals all

00:46:21.869 --> 00:46:25.840
on their side, let's say. Sure. In this battle.

00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:28.699
Yes. And they were involved in killings of lawmen,

00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:31.699
both accidental and on purpose. Yeah. And Ringo

00:46:31.699 --> 00:46:34.320
was, you know, and like a fucking sheriff's deputy

00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:37.199
could have walked by and shot him and just covered

00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.420
it up. We don't know. Yeah, I mean, almost anybody

00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:42.000
could have. And, you know, I mean, it could have

00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:44.239
been that he shot himself too. I mean, that could

00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:46.280
have been. I mean, there's definitely some weird

00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:47.539
shit, right? He could have shot himself. A lot

00:46:47.539 --> 00:46:49.679
of powder burns is a problem. Somebody else could

00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:51.920
have come by and taken a piece of his hair, skull,

00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:53.960
whatever. Easily somebody could have walked by.

00:46:54.030 --> 00:46:55.750
and cut a piece of his scalp off and walked away

00:46:55.750 --> 00:46:57.969
and not set it away. Yeah, I guess, like, for

00:46:57.969 --> 00:47:01.210
me, it's kind of like, at what proximity was

00:47:01.210 --> 00:47:04.170
the shot to his head, right? Not close enough

00:47:04.170 --> 00:47:07.429
to burn his skin. Well, then that's a huge issue.

00:47:07.989 --> 00:47:11.130
Because if... I mean, that's the issue. Not close

00:47:11.130 --> 00:47:11.949
enough to burn his skin. From what I've seen

00:47:11.949 --> 00:47:14.090
or heard or read, like, if you're going to kill

00:47:14.090 --> 00:47:16.510
yourself and you're serious about it, it's either,

00:47:16.650 --> 00:47:18.989
you know, you're fucking gagging on the barrel

00:47:18.989 --> 00:47:21.150
in your mouth or it's, you know, pressed pretty

00:47:21.150 --> 00:47:24.179
hard against your temple. So there is no way

00:47:24.179 --> 00:47:27.280
that he shot himself in the forehead with a black

00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:30.719
powder pistol without having serious burns. Yeah.

00:47:30.780 --> 00:47:33.619
I mean, I've shot like shotguns at night. There's

00:47:33.619 --> 00:47:35.840
quite a bit of flame coming out the end of that.

00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:39.039
Oh yeah. And a black powder gun is more so. And

00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:40.920
that's modern powder. Yeah. That's not black

00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:43.900
powder. Yeah. With a modern load and all that,

00:47:43.980 --> 00:47:46.639
not a hand -packed black powder cartridge and

00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:49.239
a fucking shitty ass pistol. Yeah. Like, yeah,

00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:51.679
there's going to be burns everywhere. Like, yeah.

00:47:52.110 --> 00:47:55.079
Yes. So. Very interesting. Like I say, I didn't

00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:56.980
know that there was controversy about it until

00:47:56.980 --> 00:47:59.519
we watched Tombstone, my wife and I did. Oh,

00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:02.739
sure. Yeah. Sarah had never seen Tombstone and

00:48:02.739 --> 00:48:05.420
she had no idea who any of these characters were.

00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:08.199
And I'm like, well, I know who these guys are.

00:48:10.139 --> 00:48:12.860
Yeah. I need to rewatch me some Tombstone for

00:48:12.860 --> 00:48:15.719
sure. But I have heard that people have misquoted,

00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:18.940
I'll be your huckleberry. And what the actual

00:48:18.940 --> 00:48:22.619
quote is, is I'll be your hucklebearer. Oh. we

00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:25.179
go which means i'll carry your casket more or

00:48:25.179 --> 00:48:27.619
less right yeah and well in tombstone it was

00:48:27.619 --> 00:48:29.940
insinuated that big nose kate was banging johnny

00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:32.199
ringo but it wasn't explicit yeah you know the

00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:33.860
good guys were the good guys and the bad guys

00:48:33.860 --> 00:48:36.199
are the bad guys well they have that particular

00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:39.239
in that particular movie we can't have any ambiguity

00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:41.380
right the star trek episode where they're at

00:48:41.380 --> 00:48:43.679
the okay corral the erps were the bad guys in

00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:46.280
that episode and i really respected that because

00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:50.530
that was within spitting distance of Wyatt Earp's

00:48:50.530 --> 00:48:53.190
lifetime. And his wife, Josephine Baker, she

00:48:53.190 --> 00:48:56.829
lived until the 40s. So she was like recent Hollywood,

00:48:57.030 --> 00:48:58.829
you know, like there were people who were working

00:48:58.829 --> 00:49:00.630
on that show that probably knew her personally.

00:49:00.849 --> 00:49:02.449
Oh, I'm sure. You know what I mean? Because they

00:49:02.449 --> 00:49:04.989
were big into Hollywood and that's why we know

00:49:04.989 --> 00:49:06.710
who Wyatt Earp and the OK Corral and all that.

00:49:06.849 --> 00:49:09.329
That's why it's the stories because he was involved

00:49:09.329 --> 00:49:13.309
with the early era of movies. To the victor go

00:49:13.309 --> 00:49:17.610
the spoils. Exactly. Exactly. I'm going to say

00:49:17.610 --> 00:49:20.650
my favorite conspiracy theory about this, which

00:49:20.650 --> 00:49:22.690
apparently isn't even one except I just invented

00:49:22.690 --> 00:49:25.130
it now, is that Big Nose Kate fucking killed

00:49:25.130 --> 00:49:29.489
this dude. That's my theory. And I'm sticking

00:49:29.489 --> 00:49:32.550
to it. I don't even know if Big Nose Kate's ever

00:49:32.550 --> 00:49:34.909
been accused of killing anybody. Well, I think

00:49:34.909 --> 00:49:37.329
she's got one. I'm going to chalk up one in her

00:49:37.329 --> 00:49:40.369
column. There we go. Oh, my God. Yeah, there

00:49:40.369 --> 00:49:43.190
we go. Big nose Kate. And she, I mean, there's

00:49:43.190 --> 00:49:45.530
pictures of her. And she, I mean, she does have

00:49:45.530 --> 00:49:51.750
a moderately large nose, I guess. Yeah. So, interesting.

00:49:51.769 --> 00:49:54.429
I mean, it doesn't look that big to me. Her sister's

00:49:54.429 --> 00:49:58.829
nose is way bigger. Okay. Yeah, there we go.

00:49:58.989 --> 00:50:02.309
Yeah. I still think it was her. I think she was

00:50:02.309 --> 00:50:05.010
the culprit, I think, of this whole thing. I'm

00:50:05.010 --> 00:50:07.579
not saying she was wrong. I'm just saying I think

00:50:07.579 --> 00:50:10.000
she's the guilty party. There we go. I rated

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:13.079
the cigar a 2. It wasn't offensive, but it wasn't

00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:16.559
great. It wasn't, I don't know, a 2. 2. It's

00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:18.739
a 2. What about you, Mike? I am not going to

00:50:18.739 --> 00:50:20.960
be that generous. I am not going to be that generous.

00:50:21.019 --> 00:50:25.739
I am going to go 1 .5. It's not offensive. Oh,

00:50:25.780 --> 00:50:27.760
I put it on the wrong line. You did put it in

00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:31.179
the wrong line. 1 .5. What do you do? Big nose

00:50:31.179 --> 00:50:42.019
Kate will get anybody excited. There we go. he

00:50:42.019 --> 00:50:45.539
was a lucky man that johnny ringo yeah yeah big

00:50:45.539 --> 00:50:48.099
nose well uh you know later in life she married

00:50:48.099 --> 00:50:50.659
a blacksmith and quote -unquote worked several

00:50:50.659 --> 00:50:55.099
mining camps okay okay it's like jesus christ

00:50:55.099 --> 00:50:59.059
right yeah i don't uh don't envy that do not

00:50:59.059 --> 00:51:03.940
envy that but always interesting yes indeed Yes.

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:08.860
I will in the future have something sort of similar

00:51:08.860 --> 00:51:12.960
to this, but not exactly this. Well, it does

00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:16.679
pertain to some conspiracies, but not as fully

00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:21.219
as ingrained in these conspiracies as this. I

00:51:21.219 --> 00:51:23.119
like this one. This was fun, Mike. This was fun.

00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:25.869
Yeah, I thought so too. And plus it's... A well

00:51:25.869 --> 00:51:28.150
-known historical figure in the United States.

00:51:28.389 --> 00:51:30.030
And it doesn't really matter who killed him because

00:51:30.030 --> 00:51:32.750
we know he was, you know, he died at 32. He was

00:51:32.750 --> 00:51:34.429
a gunfighter who gives a shit. Like, there's

00:51:34.429 --> 00:51:37.050
no political repercussions because some random

00:51:37.050 --> 00:51:40.050
scumbag got killed or killed himself or whatever.

00:51:40.230 --> 00:51:42.030
Which is the attitude at the time, even. You

00:51:42.030 --> 00:51:43.889
know, like, he's a piece of shit. Well, for sure.

00:51:44.090 --> 00:51:45.809
Yeah, you get 12 people together and you're like,

00:51:45.909 --> 00:51:48.110
yeah, he's dead. Cool. Thanks. He's dead. He

00:51:48.110 --> 00:51:49.969
was shot in the head. There we go. Bury him.

00:51:51.130 --> 00:51:53.650
Get him out of here. So. Cattle are safe for

00:51:53.650 --> 00:51:56.400
a little bit. There we are. There we are. All

00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:59.829
right. Well. As always, thanks for listening.

00:51:59.949 --> 00:52:02.989
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00:52:11.250 --> 00:52:14.150
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00:52:17.010 --> 00:52:19.449
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00:52:19.449 --> 00:52:22.489
will be found under our spice rack. Thanks for

00:52:22.489 --> 00:52:23.789
listening. Be safe. Have fun.