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Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Nate.

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And I'm Mike.

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What are we smoking today, Nate?

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We are smoking an Arturo Fuente Curlyhead NT.

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And I don't know what the NT stands for.

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I don't think it's like NFT.

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No, it is.

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Because it definitely exists.

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It's in my hands.

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Yes.

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I didn't look it up.

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I should look these things up.

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I know that you're going to ask.

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One of us should know.

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One of us should just know.

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And it shouldn't be me.

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No, I'm just kidding.

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You're right.

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It's a long one.

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It's long and narrow.

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Natural.

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Are you there, Nate?

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Yes, natural.

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Oh, there we go.

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Natural.

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I was giving you time to look it up.

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Oh, there we go.

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It is exceptionally long, but a narrow gauge.

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It's like a Corona level gauge, maybe a 48, but it's also, you know, seven inches long,

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something like that.

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Yes.

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I like the flavor of the cap.

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It's distinct.

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Kind of sweet, slightly sweet.

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I don't know how you would call it.

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I am pairing mine with a Firestone Mindhaze Brain Melter, Hazy Imperial IPA from Firestone

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Walker Brewing Company in California.

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And it's an 8.5% ABV.

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So I hope our topic is not too delicate.

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I'm pairing mine with tea, iced tea, because it is the season for iced tea and I wanted

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to try them.

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And yeah.

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So far, this cigar, just starting off, there's a very nice, pleasant flavor that's very light.

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Yes, it's incredibly light.

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Not that that's bad.

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By no means.

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By no means.

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It is pleasant and light if that's what you're after.

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So we'll see how much flavor change we have.

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This tastes like it's going to have flavor change for sure.

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Yeah.

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Is this the first Arturo Fuente we've had?

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I believe so.

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And are they, they're their own company, right?

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They're not like by Drew Estates or by someone else?

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No, they're their own company.

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That's what I thought.

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Just wanted to double check and make sure.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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So Mike, I bought one of these little metal cigar stands, the kind that's two pieces of

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metal and you fit them together to make kind of like an X.

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Oh, sure.

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If you've seen those.

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I have.

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It was super cheap and I really like it.

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We went camping this past weekend and I brought my travel ashtray, which has a slot for one

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cigar.

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It has two slots, but I used this metal one in addition and was able to position the cigar

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just over the ash bowl part of my ashtray and it worked out great.

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And it's nice because it doesn't take up hardly any room.

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I wasn't sure if I was going to like it, but I do.

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Nice.

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That's good to know.

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Is that made by Zikar or one of those type of companies?

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This one is, I put it so their logo's on the inside.

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Keen Sun.

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I think it was like $6, maybe $7 after tax from Amazon, but I have an inkling in my brain

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to make some nice ashes branded ones that we might be able to give out or have in our

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online shop at some point when we have an online shop.

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But speaking about online things, Mike, I have very exciting news for you.

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Okay.

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We hit 69 Instagram followers.

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Six nine.

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That's not too bad.

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It's nice is what it is.

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It's nice.

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That's very nice.

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Oh man.

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We're going to lose some today after our topic for sure.

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Are we going to attract some?

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I'm still waiting for that slew of bronies, you know, the bronies to find out about us

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in the episode we did that won that Pulitzer.

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I just know we're going to have a whole new fandom.

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Maybe so.

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Maybe so.

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I know that the memories of stuffed ponies will never leave my memory.

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Yeah.

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Or your search history.

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That is correct.

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Yes.

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Oh my.

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What are we talking about?

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So today's topic, and this is a little bet.

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So listeners, you know, bet whatever money you think is appropriate.

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But I bet that Nate knows about this topic and probably knows more about it than I did

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before I started researching it.

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Oh no.

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And this is going to turn people off.

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No, it might.

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It all depends on the angle you want to look at it from.

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I didn't mean sexually.

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I meant like off of our show.

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Ah, yes.

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So what I'm going to talk about is the satanic panic.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Which for those who do not know and have never heard of this, I loosely remember it as a child,

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but it was very tertiary to my childhood.

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It was a moral panic in the 80s and 90s, and it was basically a widespread fear with multiple

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being like 12,000 allegations of ritualistic satanic abuse, often linked to organized satanic

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cults engaging in child sex abuse and other criminal activities.

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Now when you were growing up, you were in a more religious household than I was.

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Yeah.

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So was the satanic panic part of your childhood because we were in that age where we would

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remember, you know?

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Yeah.

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I don't know that it was directly, and so it all has to do with crime stuff or-

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We're going to go into it.

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Oh, okay.

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I don't remember it by that name.

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Of course, that's not something a Christian Lutheran religious household would call it.

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They wouldn't be like, okay, we got to watch out for the satanic panic.

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The other thing to keep in mind is I graduated in a high school class of 89 people.

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So I don't know that we'd heard any music other than country until maybe 2008.

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Right.

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I mean, I'm joking about that, but you know.

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Right.

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Like the rock music is satanic is part of the satanic panic, just like D&D is satanic.

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I remember that from being a kid.

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Yeah.

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People, it was jokey.

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It wasn't-

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Okay.

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It was a memory of a serious time.

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Nobody took it seriously.

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I was raised in a cafeteria Catholic.

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We were not taking Satan as a serious character.

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Yeah.

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We, let's see, trying to remember, I know that they were pretty strict.

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Until I got to high school, they were pretty strict.

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Well even in high school, they were pretty strict rules on what movies I could watch

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and what music I could listen to, which gradually eased up.

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I'm not sure if the reasoning behind that was the satanic panic, religion, or just because

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I'm the oldest, the first born and they were still figuring out what was going on and how

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protective they wanted to be.

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I'm not a hundred percent sure.

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I know that my, I think my grandma might've been a little bit more into that.

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I know my aunt and that was Bia, my dad's side.

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I know my mom's side, grandma, I can tell a story or two about that if I hadn't already

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on the show, but it might be relevant later because I feel like my mom's mom would have

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100% subscribed to the satanic panic.

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Yes.

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So we're going to do a large overview here and then we're going to get into the nitty

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gritty.

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The key features of the satanic panic, which went on for 15 years or something like that,

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maybe more, were accusations that children were being subjected to ritualistic abuse,

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often involving satanic ceremonies and sex.

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And the way that they substantiated these allegations was through suggestive questioning,

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leading interviews and certain psychological practices that have since been denounced as

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not effective.

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Right?

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So this is being led into by the medical community because the medical procedures that psychologists

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were using ended up becoming pop psychology and it blew up in popularity.

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So there were 12,000 reported cases and many, many trials and there was not a single conviction

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nor was there a single confirmed case of any of the 12,000 reported.

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So ultimately it was a hysteria caused by a blending of factors.

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And we're going to get into those specific factors.

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So it was like a true and through witch hunt or wild goose chase.

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In terms of convicting people.

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Yes.

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Oh yeah.

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Proving it was happening.

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Right.

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So the origin story comes from a book called Michelle Remembers.

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It was published in 1980.

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And this was published by a doctor named Dr. Lawrence Padzer.

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And it was about a woman named Michelle Smith, which is an alias.

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It's a Jane Doe name.

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And this book purports that it's a true account of ritualistic satanic abuse.

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It's portrayed as a memoir of the person and it was backed up by a psychologist.

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The one who authored it or?

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The one who authored it.

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Yeah.

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The one who authored it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So they were like, I collected this in session or she wanted to get this out there.

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And I'm publishing it under my name because it's true and wanted to lend credibility to

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it.

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Right.

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So this is basically, this came about because of the therapy sessions.

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Dr. Padzer was using a therapeutic technique that used hypnosis and guided memory exploration.

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Right?

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OK.

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So this method was being pioneered at that time.

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And it was the next best thing in medicine.

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And it probably should have been kept in the psychologist office.

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Right?

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And it hit mainstream that everybody wanted to do it.

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And the problem is, is that now it's been denounced by the American Psychiatric Association

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because you can guide people in hypnosis to say whatever you want them to say.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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So it's all nonsense.

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It's whatever the psychiatrist wants.

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They can lead you into saying whatever.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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And I remember not in medical or psychological practices, but I remember a lot of late 80s

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and early 90s media had hypnosis as part of the gig or something.

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Right?

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It was part of the plot or the storyline.

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So I definitely do remember that.

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Oh, yeah.

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And that all plays a part.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Because, well, there we go.

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All right.

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So over time, this novel, well, memoir, faced a lot of criticism.

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And it got researched by other psychologists.

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And it revealed some serious inconsistencies and major issues with the methodology used

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to recover the memories.

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OK.

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Almost every claim in the book was discredited.

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And it is now cited as an example of how suggestive therapeutic techniques can lead to false memories

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and hysteria.

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So do you think, and maybe you'll get into this, Mike, but do you think there actually

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was a Michelle Smith person or was it all fabricated?

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I don't think it was fabricated.

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I think that it was like happens in our society.

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A psychologist thought they were doing something new and innovative and right.

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And instead of going through the process and having this analyzed and keeping this private

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between the doctor and the patient, they went public and they sensationalized it because

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they can make profit.

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And so it got out of hand very quickly.

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And instead of doing the process that should have been done, hint, hint, experimental medicine,

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you know, right?

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Yeah.

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Well, the whole point is it has to be peer reviewed or replicated by somebody else.

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Right.

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So it was published.

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And then proven.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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And it was published the day before any peer review had happened of any of the claims or

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the methodology used or anything else.

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Yeah.

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It's similar to Dr. Fauci.

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00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:11,760
Ah, you know, I'm just saying that there's some similarities between certain culture

261
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,400
phenomenons that are occurring now and the ones that have occurred in the past.

262
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:21,920
Well, I think I think maybe the message is there are some people who know how to leverage

263
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,400
the media better than others.

264
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:25,400
For sure.

265
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,320
Whether or not what they're saying is true is completely, completely different.

266
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:30,320
Right.

267
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:37,360
So this novel was backed up by several extreme high profile court cases.

268
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:38,360
OK.

269
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,640
And they were highly televised at the time and they all involved accusations from children

270
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:49,540
who were subjected to this memory technique by a psychologist.

271
00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:54,280
And then that being used as the basis for an accusation and a criminal trial.

272
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:55,280
OK.

273
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:56,280
So.

274
00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:01,480
So they're saying they were abused in the name of Satan or that Satan literally appeared

275
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:02,760
before them and abused them.

276
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,720
We're going to go over a couple of examples.

277
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:05,720
OK.

278
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:06,720
OK.

279
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:07,720
Yeah.

280
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,780
So the McMartin preschool case went on for eight, seven years.

281
00:13:10,780 --> 00:13:12,480
And it's one of the most well known cases.

282
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:13,480
You can look it up.

283
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:19,340
And the allegation was of widespread sexual abuse and satanic rituals at a preschool in

284
00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:20,960
Manhattan Beach, California.

285
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:27,180
Now there was extensive investigation and an extremely lengthy trial and they had no

286
00:13:27,180 --> 00:13:33,080
convictions and basically every charge was completely discredited as false.

287
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:34,080
Yeah.

288
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,080
Right.

289
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:42,040
Well, I don't know how you'd even I think even with something terrible happening, getting

290
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,840
a conviction on an abuser is not a walk in the park.

291
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,760
It's not an easy thing to do even without introducing hypnosis.

292
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:55,800
So a key factor, and I probably didn't explain it, this wasn't against an individual.

293
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,280
This was against a preschool.

294
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:04,120
The claim was that the preschool itself was a satanic organization that was ritualistically

295
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,240
sexually assaulting students, children and doing satanic rituals.

296
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:16,480
So everybody at the McMartin preschool was involved in a satanic cult who were systematically

297
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,240
abusing the children that they were taking care of.

298
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:20,240
Yeah.

299
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,800
So this is trying to say that even with a single abuser that's been named or alleged

300
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:32,160
abuser, it's not easy to get a conviction in some circumstances even today, even without

301
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,160
introducing like a Ouija board or hypnosis or other things.

302
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:37,160
Right?

303
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,320
Like, isn't it, if somebody's actually been abused, it's still fairly difficult to get

304
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:41,320
a conviction.

305
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,200
Like it takes time and money and effort.

306
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:49,160
So it's not surprising if you're doing a blanket statement against an organization where you're

307
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:54,320
not specifically damning anybody other than like everybody here is involved in it, because

308
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,080
then you'd have to prove that every single person was involved in it.

309
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,200
And even if you won, every single person could say they weren't involved in it and do a counter

310
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,440
suit and then it would take even longer and you'd still probably end up in the same spot

311
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,000
they ended up ending up in in the first place.

312
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,000
Right.

313
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,000
So if I'm thinking about it correctly, I don't know.

314
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,000
Right.

315
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,000
We're going to go over another case.

316
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,040
It's called the West Memphis Three.

317
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,040
This is 93.

318
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,440
Three teenagers, their names don't matter.

319
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,040
I do have them if you want to know.

320
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,680
We're convicted of murdering three young boys in West Memphis, Arkansas.

321
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:25,680
OK.

322
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:31,600
Now the case had heavy allegations of satanic rituals and it was affected by the satanic

323
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,840
panic and they were convicted.

324
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,280
And it was extremely controversial because there's no evidence that they were involved

325
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,720
in Satanism, but the murders had some like satanic stuff in there.

326
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:41,720
Yeah.

327
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,680
Later, DNA evidence showed that they were not not guilty of doing anything and they

328
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:50,240
were just teenage boys that were railroaded because they played like Dungeons and Dragons.

329
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:51,240
Right.

330
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:52,240
OK, sure.

331
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,880
Well, and Doom was made by a devout Catholic, wasn't it?

332
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:56,880
I don't know.

333
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,800
I believe I believe the designer of Doom, he was very religious and that's why the game

334
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,840
is you're in hell killing demons.

335
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:04,840
Right.

336
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,560
Even though a lot of people will say, well, that's a satanic game because it's look at

337
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,240
all the gore and blood and whatever.

338
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,480
But anyway, not to derail it.

339
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:12,480
Yeah.

340
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,480
Read the Bible, people.

341
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:14,480
Anyway.

342
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:15,480
Yeah.

343
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,560
It's more reliable than like stuff I've read in Game of Thrones.

344
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,160
So I'm just going to for sure just going to put that out there.

345
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,040
So this is a series of cases.

346
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:31,040
But in Kern County, California, there were numerous children who all claimed that they

347
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,640
were being abused in satanic rituals.

348
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:41,240
And this was gotten by, again, this therapeutic memory hypnosis, like guided memory thing.

349
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:42,240
OK.

350
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:47,520
So it's the same individual psychologist doing it.

351
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:52,420
And basically, every court case that had a conviction got overturned.

352
00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:57,100
And most of them never got a conviction because there was no evidence for any of the claims

353
00:16:57,100 --> 00:17:02,440
that was being made because it was all put into the children's head by the psychologist

354
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:03,440
leading them on.

355
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:04,440
Right.

356
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:05,440
Yeah.

357
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:11,040
It's almost as if children have a difficult time distinguishing between reality and dreams.

358
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,040
If you put it in their head that the dreams are real.

359
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,040
Right.

360
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,040
Yeah.

361
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:18,160
Or alternate reality is real.

362
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,480
Almost like you shouldn't allow children to make decisions for themselves largely.

363
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,080
Depending on the decision, right?

364
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,000
I think a life altering decision.

365
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,960
We've talked about this in a previous episode.

366
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:29,960
Yeah.

367
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:30,960
We did.

368
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:38,680
There's a reason to not get into a very sticky area in the current societal consciousness.

369
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:44,840
But there's a reason why children can't legally get a tattoo until they're 18.

370
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:45,840
There's a reason.

371
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,120
I don't know what it is.

372
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:48,120
I'm just kidding.

373
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:51,800
Children may be very open to suggestion.

374
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:52,800
Yes.

375
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:53,800
Maybe.

376
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,480
Children are impressionable.

377
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,720
And some adults are impressionable as well, but they should have learned better by then.

378
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,520
But that's not the point of this episode.

379
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:03,520
Right.

380
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,720
Well, and Mike, would you say, I don't know that much about hypnosis.

381
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:13,360
I used to work as a DJ and the lady I worked for was also a hypnotist and she would hypnotize

382
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:14,360
people.

383
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:16,400
But there's a kind of a screening process that she would do.

384
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,760
And it was one of those, the crowd, anyone here want to be hypnotized and she'd do stuff

385
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,840
to see which one was open to suggestion.

386
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,720
So in order to even be hypnotized, you have to be open to suggestion.

387
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:27,720
I imagine.

388
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:28,720
In my understanding of it.

389
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,520
To an event like that and I was not a candidate.

390
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:32,520
Yeah.

391
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:33,960
I can see that, Mike.

392
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:35,520
I don't think I would be a candidate either.

393
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,040
I think, but I think that's the point is, is in order to be hypnotized, because not

394
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,080
everybody can be hypnotized.

395
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:46,400
It's not like Looney Tunes made it out to be where anybody can watch a swinging watch

396
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:51,160
and then be hypnotized and act like a chicken or commit war crimes or what have you.

397
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,720
So it takes a certain personality type in the first place to be hypnotized.

398
00:18:54,720 --> 00:19:00,840
Would you say being hypnotized or being in a state of hypnosis is an altered state of

399
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:01,980
consciousness?

400
00:19:01,980 --> 00:19:03,080
Can you repeat that question?

401
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,080
Yes.

402
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:09,720
Would you consider being hypnotized or in a hypnotic state to be an altered state of

403
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:10,720
consciousness?

404
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:11,720
Absolutely.

405
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:12,720
Okay.

406
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,400
So it would be similar to, let's say being drunk or under the influence of some other

407
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:18,960
drug perhaps.

408
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,600
You're not truly fully aware of every decision that's being made.

409
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,220
I know that she explained to me, because I asked her some questions.

410
00:19:26,220 --> 00:19:29,840
You can't really make somebody do something they don't want to do, but you can suggest

411
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:35,800
things to them and as long as they're open to doing that, then they'll pretend to be

412
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:41,440
a chicken or ride around on the ground like a dune sandworm or something.

413
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:42,440
Right.

414
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:43,440
Right.

415
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,800
And telling fanciful stories is something that children do, right?

416
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:47,800
For fun.

417
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:48,800
To pass the time.

418
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:49,800
Yeah.

419
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:50,800
For enjoyment.

420
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:51,800
Yeah.

421
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:52,800
So.

422
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:53,800
Some politicians make good money that way too.

423
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:59,400
Oh, that's not getting into the presidential race that now has two VPs and two P's.

424
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,720
Two P's going on.

425
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,800
Bunch of fucking winners there, huh?

426
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,240
Man, nothing ever will be better than what the internet did to the Trump Pence logo,

427
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,920
the very first logo they released like in 2019 or whenever it was.

428
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,480
It must've been before then, whenever it was.

429
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:14,480
I don't know.

430
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:15,480
I can't count.

431
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,440
But they did the T going into the P and so the internet animated it.

432
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:20,440
Yes, I remember.

433
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,680
And then they quickly changed the logo.

434
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,000
But anyway, that's also at the point of this episode.

435
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,320
No, no, no.

436
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:28,960
So I have two more court cases.

437
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:29,960
Okay.

438
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,480
One is the Operation Phoenix case that was 84, 85.

439
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:40,360
And basically there was accusations of organized satanic ritual abuse in San Diego and everything

440
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:42,000
was discredited.

441
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:51,360
And again, it came down to a psychologist using a hypnotize or hypnosis and memory guiding

442
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:53,680
and put the suggestion into these children.

443
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:59,320
So this is rolling, right, because these are all public court cases and they're affecting

444
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:00,360
everybody else.

445
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,800
So the momentum is gaining and gaining and gaining and gaining.

446
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,080
So it's becoming more and more common to have these incidents.

447
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:18,060
And so the D&D case was James Dallas Egbert III, who in 1979 was playing D&D and or he

448
00:21:18,060 --> 00:21:21,400
played D&D and he disappeared and he was found dead.

449
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:27,640
And the media sensationalized this case and they somehow linked him disappearing and dying

450
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,760
to the fact that he played D&D.

451
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,220
They were not at all related, right?

452
00:21:34,220 --> 00:21:35,840
But that was the beginning of this.

453
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,040
Even if they somehow were related, I don't know what Satan has to do with it.

454
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,680
Well, it was a new game at the time and the televangelists were saying...

455
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:45,960
I understand that.

456
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,400
I'm saying if he was using a loaded die so he could always roll Nat 20s.

457
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,840
Some other player might be upset with them, but Satan wouldn't have anything to do with

458
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:54,840
it.

459
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:55,840
Right.

460
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,120
Did they have loaded Nat 20 or loaded 20 dies back in 1979?

461
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:01,120
That's what I want to know.

462
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:03,920
Man, I think they had loaded dies like in the 1800s.

463
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,520
Well, dice are one of the oldest gaming systems around, I think.

464
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,600
So well, they had loaded dice, but then they have loaded 20s.

465
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,680
Like when did the 20 become ubiquitous?

466
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,000
Like I have 20s, obviously.

467
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,000
Yeah.

468
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,640
We're going to defer a future episode of Nice Ashes, the history of dice.

469
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:22,640
Yeah.

470
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,680
I even have loaded Nat 20s.

471
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,560
I actually have 20 dice too.

472
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,040
So anyway, doesn't matter.

473
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:29,040
Doesn't matter.

474
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,680
Doesn't matter.

475
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,240
So there was social factors going on behind the scenes.

476
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:39,240
Yeah.

477
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaking about behind the scenes, Mike.

478
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:41,520
Yes.

479
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,880
I feel like we should do a little cigar check-in because I think I'm a little past the one

480
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,200
third, but I'm not at the halfway mark yet.

481
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,480
So I'm not at halfway, but I am definitely past a third.

482
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:52,480
Yep.

483
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:53,480
Same.

484
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:54,680
I think it's getting a little stronger.

485
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,280
I think it's getting stronger.

486
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,720
The flavor is getting a little more intense.

487
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:00,720
It's getting stronger.

488
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,160
Not super intense.

489
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:03,160
Not super intense.

490
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,160
It's still very mild.

491
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,400
I do get a little acetone right now.

492
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,000
I'm getting a little acetone, but that might just be me.

493
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:14,840
I think I'm getting a little spice, but I'll have to pay a little bit closer attention.

494
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,480
And I like it so far.

495
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,000
It's lighter than I would normally smoke, but I don't think there's anything wrong with

496
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,680
it at all.

497
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,040
It's better than mediocre in my opinion so far.

498
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,040
Oh, I agree.

499
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,760
Of course, a lot can change, but-

500
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,520
This is something that I would not suggest smoking with a cup of coffee because I think

501
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:34,680
the coffee would drown it out.

502
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:35,680
Oh, I think so.

503
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,920
My tea might be perfect for this.

504
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:38,920
Yes.

505
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaking of tea, give us some more tea.

506
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,840
Oh my.

507
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:48,120
So the 70s and the 80s had a huge crime rate and there was a lot of single mothers for

508
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,560
the first time in the country and there's a lot of social upheaval.

509
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:58,900
And this of course contributed to paranoia over Satanism, especially amongst the conservative

510
00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:01,640
Christians.

511
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,080
And that kind of led to it.

512
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,600
Now, there was a guy, and this is how this got started because this guy died.

513
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,360
His name is Bennett Braun.

514
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:15,160
And he was a psychiatrist and he was very heavily influential during this period.

515
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:20,600
He contributed to theories about widespread satanic ritual abuse.

516
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:27,440
He was one of the founders of the idea of multiple personality disorder, AKA dissociative

517
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,200
identity disorder.

518
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,400
And he was-

519
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,360
Which actually is a real thing, right?

520
00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:33,520
Yes, that is a real thing.

521
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,400
So he had like real chops.

522
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,400
Yeah.

523
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:43,200
And he also did the fucking hypnosis memory hole technique.

524
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,200
And he had a ton-

525
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,800
So he did a chop too far.

526
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,800
Yes.

527
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:55,760
He had a ton of patients, a ton, that were involved with court cases, a lot.

528
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,000
Almost single-handedly could have had the satanic panic just because of him.

529
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,440
And of course it was made worse because he was a legitimate psychiatrist who did work

530
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,600
on real disorders.

531
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,440
And this was going to be his next best thing.

532
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,000
You know what I mean?

533
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,760
He's a profiteer and he wants to make the new discovery.

534
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,620
But of course he didn't want his new discovery to be tested and verified.

535
00:25:19,620 --> 00:25:25,120
He wanted success now without having anybody verify his results.

536
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:31,720
So he promoted this practice without having any data to back up its legitimacy.

537
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:32,720
Okay.

538
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,720
Right?

539
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:42,360
And that was one of those things where he rose legitimately and needed to find something

540
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:43,360
else.

541
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:44,360
Right.

542
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:45,360
He's the Teal Holtzman.

543
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:46,360
Teal Holtzman.

544
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:47,360
That's exactly what I was going to say.

545
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:48,360
Yeah.

546
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:51,360
Of our timeline, right?

547
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:52,360
Yes.

548
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:53,360
Yes.

549
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:57,840
So, and then he actually kind of lived the rest of his life in shame and he moved to

550
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:04,480
Butte, Montana and he practiced psychiatry there basically until he died, which was a

551
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:05,480
couple of weeks ago.

552
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:06,480
Maybe it was a couple of months now.

553
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:07,480
It's hard to say.

554
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,000
Oh, he just recently died then.

555
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Yeah.

556
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,000
Yeah.

557
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,000
This is what brought it on is that he died.

558
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,000
Oh, okay.

559
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,280
And I watched a blurb on him and they're like, oh, this guy's an asshole, you know?

560
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:17,280
Yeah.

561
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:18,280
Yeah.

562
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,280
Yeah.

563
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:20,280
I'm like, I've never heard of Bennett Braun.

564
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:21,880
Who is this Bennett Braun?

565
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:22,880
Yeah.

566
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,760
It's like, oh, he's like a guy who did some good stuff and he just could never reach it

567
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:28,760
again.

568
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,720
And so it ended up being pretty bad.

569
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,200
But not necessarily for him.

570
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,200
Was he ever prosecuted?

571
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,200
No.

572
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,760
Well, yeah, he did lose his, he lost his license, his medical license in California.

573
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:42,760
Yeah.

574
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:43,760
Yeah.

575
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,360
That's why he moved to Montana because Montana didn't pull his medical license.

576
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:50,160
It was like the last place on earth that he could practice in.

577
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,160
They were like, you know what?

578
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,920
We need doctors, psychiatrists, so whatever.

579
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:56,920
Come on.

580
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,960
If I was the judge, I would have not only pulled his medical license, but I would have

581
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,920
banned him from ever buying or owning a Ouija board.

582
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,840
Oh my.

583
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:16,080
So and that's so that Braun got brought up because he was a big supporter of suggestive

584
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,800
therapy.

585
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,560
And that's just terrible.

586
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,880
And then the question, of course, is, is there a new wave of suggestive therapy going on

587
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:31,400
that might be causing certain social trends that are presently occurring in our society?

588
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:32,400
Right.

589
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,080
I mean, no, they're not.

590
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,680
Not pointing any fingers.

591
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:46,200
But when certain medicalized conditions have increased from 0.3% to 5% in a matter of years,

592
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:53,800
and it's based entirely on generational groups and who is and is not going to see psychologists,

593
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:59,040
maybe there's some suggestive therapy going on and we're just not in a position to be

594
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,560
able to say, hey, that's wrong.

595
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:02,560
Right.

596
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,240
Well, if you say that, aren't you scolded?

597
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,880
We're talking about the weight loss drugs, right, Mike?

598
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,880
Yeah, totally.

599
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,440
Totally.

600
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:21,040
So now, of course, the likes of Benet Braun were backed up by evangelical TV preachers.

601
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,040
Right.

602
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,040
So let's go through the list.

603
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,440
The most trustworthy of the bunch.

604
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,960
Yeah, the most trustworthy of the bunch.

605
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,640
And of course, these preachers, they make all sorts of claims, you know.

606
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:30,640
And they are all.

607
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,640
I thought you were going to say they make all sorts of money because they also do that.

608
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,880
Oh, geez crease, fella.

609
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,720
The Lord wants them to have that $60 million jumbo jet so they can fly around on their

610
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,440
own and not be subject to demons on the polar airplane.

611
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,520
So the rest of us could suck liquid out of a soggy paper straw so they can fly to be

612
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,720
closer to the Lord so he can hear their prayers above the riffraff.

613
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,720
That's right.

614
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:57,720
The hoi polloi, as it were.

615
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:58,720
Yes.

616
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,480
The Lord and, you know, the televangelist needs to be in direct contact so they just

617
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,920
fly around in the sky until they get a message.

618
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:11,480
I shall not fear for the Lord is my jumbo jet and yea, though I fly through the skies,

619
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,640
no poor person will ever touch me.

620
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,760
Oh, yes.

621
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:23,040
So we all know who Pat Robertson is, monkey man, and he had the 700 Club before he, you

622
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:30,400
know, passed on to the here and he had multiple, multiple guests on claiming satanic abuse,

623
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,080
all of which were lies.

624
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,520
Of course, we have Jerry Falwell.

625
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Mr. He fucked his mother in an outhouse when he was a teenager, Jerry Falwell himself.

626
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,320
OK.

627
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,520
I don't know if you have heard that joke or not.

628
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,480
Is it a joke or did it really happen?

629
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,000
No, that was a that was a cartoon in the Hustler magazine.

630
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,000
OK, Jesus.

631
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,920
I wouldn't put it past him.

632
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,640
I wouldn't put it past him.

633
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,840
Yeah, that's the famous court case.

634
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:05,240
It's like a Freudian slip when you say one thing and mean your mother.

635
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,800
I mean another.

636
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,840
So Falwell is, of course, a televangelist and he was the founder of the Moral Majority,

637
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,040
which was one of the groups that backed Ronald Reagan back in the day.

638
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:22,920
And he was a major and open supporter of the satanic panic.

639
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:30,360
And he validated the people who made satanic claims and he spread the fears of widespread

640
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,520
satanism, which, of course, were all nonsense.

641
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,520
You know, most likely.

642
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:37,520
We have another one.

643
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:38,520
I never heard of this one.

644
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:39,520
Jimmy Swaggart.

645
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,920
Jimmy Swaggart made it a routine part of his television program to talk about satanic influence.

646
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,880
And apparently that was kind of his gig and it kind of ruined his career as a result.

647
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,280
And then there are some authors called Mike Warnke and Gary North.

648
00:30:54,280 --> 00:31:01,880
And they apparently made a living selling books, claiming that they had real narratives

649
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,040
of satanic abuse from people.

650
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,040
Right.

651
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,240
And who knows if that's real or not.

652
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:13,200
But they had a thriving Christian book industry for basically selling the idea that people

653
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,960
were involved in satanic rituals in a widespread way in the United States.

654
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:18,960
Yeah.

655
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:25,120
When we're talking about satanic rituals, are they talking about rituals from like the

656
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:31,640
Church of Satan, the satanic temple, or just Satan as an entity of evil doing?

657
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,120
I think they're talking about like put the goat head on and spray the blood and do the

658
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,160
pentagram and do like sex magic.

659
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:41,160
You know what I mean?

660
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,160
More like Wiccan type stuff or I don't know.

661
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,160
I don't want all these Wiccans to be coming after me.

662
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,720
But I don't think the Wiccans are doing devil worship.

663
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:57,200
But like some sort of, I don't know what you would even call it because the Satanists certainly

664
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,200
don't do that.

665
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:03,080
I pulled up the seven tenets of the satanic temple, but maybe devil worshipers?

666
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,800
I don't know.

667
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,240
If you read the Bible, which most Christians haven't, I don't think Satan kills a single

668
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,160
person in the entire book.

669
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,840
And God, it just goes on spree after spree after spree, but he's a loving and merciful

670
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:17,840
God.

671
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,520
So I don't know.

672
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,240
Not that this is strictly about religion, but I don't know who these people are that...

673
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,960
Well, Satan is my understanding and I'm not some sort of expert.

674
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,400
So take that for what it's worth.

675
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,600
Wait, you're not a Satan expert, Mike?

676
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,600
Yeah, not a Satan expert.

677
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:35,600
That's my understanding.

678
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,480
You play Satan's favorite game, bowling.

679
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:40,480
That's true.

680
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,120
Well, nine pin bowling is Satan's favorite game.

681
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,640
They added the extra pin and now Satan's not involved anymore.

682
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,320
Now it's holy and pure.

683
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:49,320
Now it's holy and pure.

684
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:50,880
No gambling, no Satan.

685
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:51,880
Right?

686
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,120
That's the extra pin that makes the difference.

687
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:02,640
That's what those bad men who came to to bang the angels said too, after Lot offered his

688
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:03,640
daughters.

689
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,720
He said, they said, no, no, we want the extra pin.

690
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,120
We want those man angels over there.

691
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,160
Yeah, I love that story.

692
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,840
The good guy is, yeah, rape my daughters, not these weird stranger people that I don't

693
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:17,840
know.

694
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:23,560
These angels that by all accounts in the Bible should look like completely terrifying entities.

695
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,240
Hey, were they the OG bronies?

696
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,960
I think that Sodom and Gomorrah, like the Gomorrahites, they were the OG bronies.

697
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:32,960
Nice.

698
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:33,960
Nice.

699
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,560
So the Sodomites, obviously not.

700
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:39,560
That's a totally different thing.

701
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,960
But the Gomorrahites, they were the bronastic.

702
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:55,360
Oh boy, I'm so glad we don't have an address published where people can send us hate mail.

703
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,760
For reference, if anybody wants to, I watched an interview with somebody who claimed to

704
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,400
be a Satanist and it was like watching the Satanic Temple guy and he was being interviewed

705
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,640
by like a Jenny Jones or some version of that type of talk show back in the day.

706
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,560
And it was a total troll job.

707
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:17,280
I mean, he had the makeup on and he was doing the like, you know, he was doing the like,

708
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,800
the word salad, you know what I mean?

709
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,640
And you could tell that he was having a hell of a good time.

710
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,000
And I don't know if anybody's ever watched the Satanic Temple announcement when they

711
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,320
are fighting some religious group.

712
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:38,960
But the guy that runs the Satanic Temple is like an atheist.

713
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:44,320
Like if he's not being interviewed for his position as head of the Satanic Temple, he's

714
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,520
like, we're an atheist organization.

715
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,240
We were banned from having an atheist organization for tax reasons.

716
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:54,560
So we became a Satanist organization because Satanism is protected.

717
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,760
Let me just read the first.

718
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,680
Well, I pulled up the seven tenets for the Satanic Temple.

719
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,680
Do we have time for me to read them quick?

720
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:02,720
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

721
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:04,720
We have half of the scenario left damn near.

722
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:05,800
I know.

723
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,200
So the first tenet of the Satanic Temple, one should strive to act with compassion and

724
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,040
empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

725
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,360
So that doesn't scream staking goat heads on spikes to me.

726
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:18,360
No.

727
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,500
Number two, the struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should

728
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,080
prevail over laws and institutions.

729
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:29,120
Three one's body is inviolable subject to one's own will alone.

730
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,040
So I'm surprised there's not more feminists that are Satanists.

731
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,720
Four the freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend to willfully

732
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:42,240
and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forego one's own.

733
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,440
Five beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world.

734
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,100
One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

735
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:52,360
Six people are valuable.

736
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,780
If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that

737
00:35:55,780 --> 00:35:56,780
might have been caused.

738
00:35:56,780 --> 00:36:00,800
And seven, every tenant is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility and action and

739
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,360
thought the spirit of compassion, wisdom and justice should always prevail over the written

740
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:06,640
or spoken word.

741
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,520
That sounds like devil worship to me.

742
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,600
How can I vote this guy into office?

743
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,840
Devil worship is what it is for sure.

744
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:23,800
Well, I'm just drawing a pentagram right now, Mike.

745
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,680
I watch foreign news occasionally, you know, and they'll cover like there was a terrorist

746
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:36,920
attack in Iowa where some wacko went and destroyed the Satanic Temple statue of Baphomet in the

747
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,200
Iowa, the capital.

748
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,940
So Iowa allows religious groups to do like statuary, I guess.

749
00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:48,240
So the Satanic Temple, of course, put one in because they wanted a band.

750
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:49,240
That's the whole point.

751
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:53,800
We as Americans and you and I as like people who are into this topic understand the whole

752
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:59,080
idea behind the Satanic Temple is that they want no religious symbols in public spaces,

753
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,080
right?

754
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,080
Yeah.

755
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,920
So it's like the same as the Pastafarians making fun of religious people being able

756
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:10,680
to wear religious headgear in a state slash federal photo ID where you're supposed to

757
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,560
be able to see the person's face.

758
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,240
So they wear pasta strainers, colanders on their heads.

759
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:19,200
I wonder if I could get away with that.

760
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,880
You could because they made it an official religion, just like the Satanic Temple is

761
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:23,960
an official religion.

762
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,640
So you are under your first amendment right.

763
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:31,860
If you claim to be a Pastafarian anywhere in America, you can go in and wear a pasta

764
00:37:31,860 --> 00:37:35,000
strainer on your head for your driver's license photo.

765
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,000
Nice.

766
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,160
But the point was they wanted to not be allowed to wear a pasta strainer and also people to

767
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,840
not be able to wear religious headgear in official government photos.

768
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:45,840
Sure.

769
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,700
But I guess that's the beauty of America is now you can wear a pasta strainer in official

770
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:54,920
government photos and nobody can see anything about it.

771
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,840
Neckerchief in one of my photos and I don't think it's pretty loud.

772
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,600
It gets covering part of my face.

773
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:04,600
That's hilarious.

774
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:09,040
Anyway, so back to the topic at hand.

775
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:16,080
By the mid 90s, investigative journalists and psychologists basically started to debunk

776
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:22,800
the myths of widespread satanic abuse and they started to do in studies these actual

777
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:30,040
psychologists and basically it showed that claims were entirely false or severely exaggerated.

778
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:39,720
And the legal system basically stopped taking satanic panic cases because of the lack of

779
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:40,720
evidence.

780
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:45,640
So the satanic panic has had a long lasting effect on our justice system and the public

781
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,680
perception of child abuse.

782
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,200
We might have had a little moral panic about child abuse a little while ago.

783
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:57,160
People remember certain Italian based businesses that may or may not have been subject to some

784
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,640
crazy attacks because of some conspiracy theories.

785
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,880
I've heard that the term that we used for it is banned, so I'm not going to say it out

786
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:11,920
loud, but I heard the rumor that it's a search term we're not allowed to use.

787
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:17,680
You're not allowed to say the term is banned because it's conspiratorial or whatever.

788
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:18,680
What does it rhyme with?

789
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,040
I think I know the one you're talking about.

790
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:27,200
Well, it would be like if Little Caesars owned a gate.

791
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,200
Yes, okay.

792
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,640
I'm with you.

793
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:39,340
There was another one that Facebook has been banning, another search term that seems completely

794
00:39:39,340 --> 00:39:45,840
benign to me, but for some reason people are getting messages saying that child pornography

795
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,560
and stuff is not allowed.

796
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,800
I can't remember what term that one was, but there are some terms that people might use

797
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:59,680
normally or seem innocent and for some reason they're now banned or frowned upon saying.

798
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:07,520
Yes, well also, and this is related in a way, Facebook recently added the Z term that is

799
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:13,680
the support for the Israeli government to its list of naughty words that you are only

800
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:19,880
allowed to use in certain contexts and it is now a protected word slash class that you're

801
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,120
not allowed to attack or criticize, which is crazy.

802
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:29,960
There's nothing better for freedom than to not let people say things.

803
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,960
I think that the experience that our brothers and sisters in the UK are having right now

804
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:41,480
shows what happens when you start limiting people's ability to express themselves.

805
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:47,280
Well, and not just limiting, but actually prosecuting that expression.

806
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:48,280
Yes.

807
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,480
Not that I know next to nothing about that situation, but again, for my foreign news

808
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,480
sources, right?

809
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,760
The foreign news sources that like, oh, that's-

810
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:10,120
I only know about it from the only last bastion of true free unbiased press, which is memes.

811
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:15,920
Which is, it sounds fucking funny, but to some extent it is mind boggling how accurate

812
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,240
some of these memes actually are when you look up what they're making fun of.

813
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:23,800
It is because comedy is still protected, right?

814
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,560
They can't, it's very difficult to censor.

815
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:27,560
Yeah, for now.

816
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:32,800
So you can make some epic memes about the incompetency of certain groups where you probably

817
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,280
would not be allowed to say it out loud.

818
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:36,280
Yes.

819
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:37,760
So it's so funny.

820
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,640
Anyway, so the satanic panic had long lasting effects, blah, blah, blah.

821
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:46,520
And it also highlights, and this is the important part, it highlights the importance of evidence-based

822
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:54,080
investigations and peer reviewing and not sensationalizing medical procedures that are

823
00:41:54,080 --> 00:42:00,760
on the cutting edge because the problem is a lot of them are going to be discredited

824
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,240
in the long term, right?

825
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:04,120
Or it works in a limited number.

826
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,680
I think it works a limited amount of time.

827
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:11,560
And then there's a whole bunch of collateral damage, you know, because it doesn't affect

828
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:12,560
everybody.

829
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,880
And then it becomes a rolling ball and then everybody wants to get you on this bandwagon.

830
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:22,800
And it also tells us a lot about unchecked fear and hysteria when there's a lack of real

831
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,280
information about what's going on, right?

832
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:30,660
Not that any of us who lived in the last couple of years would know anything about the damage

833
00:42:30,660 --> 00:42:32,960
of unchecked fear and hysteria.

834
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,080
We would know nothing about that.

835
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,400
Mike, I've got two thoughts.

836
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:44,560
One is that somewhere, I don't remember where, if it was in China.

837
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,680
So take this with a grain of salt, I guess.

838
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:48,680
But maybe not.

839
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:49,680
I don't know.

840
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,240
I mean, everybody says we should hate China, but I don't know.

841
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:52,240
I don't know anymore.

842
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:59,400
Anyway, I think it was in China, but somewhere they cured type two diabetes in a person.

843
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:00,400
They cured it.

844
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:01,400
It's gone.

845
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:02,400
It's done.

846
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,920
He's living a normal life, but you don't see a whole bunch of pills or whatever, whatever.

847
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,200
I think they did something with stem cells from his own stem cells.

848
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,720
So they're not harvesting babies, which is the craziest thing I ever heard argument against

849
00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:16,860
stem cell research.

850
00:43:16,860 --> 00:43:18,260
They're harvesting unborn fetuses.

851
00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:20,320
They're encouraging abortions.

852
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:21,560
Everybody has stem cells in their body.

853
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:26,560
You can take your own anyway, but you're not seeing a huge rush of that.

854
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,280
I think because they've cured it in one person.

855
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,040
That's not, that's not an adequate sample size.

856
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:34,040
You know what I mean?

857
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:38,000
Like the scientific method is you have to get the results you're hoping for, and then

858
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,600
you have to replicate it a certain number of times to make it statistically relevant.

859
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:42,600
Right.

860
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:43,600
And you have to have a control group.

861
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:44,600
Yeah.

862
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:45,600
So if you muddy the water.

863
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:46,600
And then other people have to, yeah.

864
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,720
And other people have to, other people have to be able to replicate it too.

865
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:50,720
That's how it works.

866
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:54,840
So the thing is multiple teams, multiple people have to be able to replicate things.

867
00:43:54,840 --> 00:44:01,040
If they follow your process, then it's considered peer reviewed or validated, let's say.

868
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:06,000
And then it has to go through the, well, here in America, it has to go through the FDA process,

869
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,640
whatever that is and however many bribes that takes.

870
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,800
But there's a, there's a procedure for a reason.

871
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,880
A lot of times that reason is to make other people that do nothing, a lot of money, the

872
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,640
FDA, but you know, there, I mean, all snarkiness aside, there's a reason.

873
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:21,800
There's a scientific method.

874
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,580
There's a reason there's a procedure for these things.

875
00:44:24,580 --> 00:44:28,440
You can't other, otherwise you'd have those snake oil salesmen, you know, that we've all

876
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:29,440
heard of.

877
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,160
And it's like, here, just take this opium tincture and you'll feel better.

878
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,680
Well, fuck yeah, I will not for a long time, but you know, for long enough, I guess for

879
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:39,680
you to get out of town.

880
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,680
I wasn't going to use that exact example.

881
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,640
I had a better one, but I'm not going to say it now.

882
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:44,640
Oh, okay.

883
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,640
Well, say it now.

884
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,140
Well, it's kind of like taking, it's like taking a vaccine, but it doesn't actually

885
00:44:50,140 --> 00:44:52,600
prevent you from getting the disease.

886
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,660
It's a therapeutic and you have to take nine of them over, you know, a series of time.

887
00:44:57,660 --> 00:45:01,640
And then you still get the disease that it's supposed to prevent, but it's also supposed

888
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,040
to limit how bad it is.

889
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,120
But simultaneously, naturally, the virus is becoming less and less aggressive.

890
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,600
So there's no real way to verify that the thing you're taking is actually working or

891
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:13,600
not.

892
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:14,600
Yes.

893
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:15,600
It's like that.

894
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,000
You got the disease, but you're vaccinated, so it's less than it would have been.

895
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:19,000
Supposedly.

896
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,000
We can't prove that.

897
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,800
But it's less than it would have been.

898
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,800
Believe me, believe you, me.

899
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:31,600
Believe the multi-trillion dollar corporation that is making hundreds of billions of dollars

900
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:32,600
from this particular investment.

901
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,160
Well, the beauty of it is nobody paid for it directly out of their own pocket, but they

902
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,680
all paid for it in their taxes.

903
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:38,680
Right.

904
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,000
So we're at how we can socialize medicine when it benefits corporate profit.

905
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,000
Yes.

906
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,000
Socialism is bad unless corporations can profit from it.

907
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,000
Well, yeah.

908
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,000
Right.

909
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,000
Long live the corporation.

910
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,680
Yeah, huzzah.

911
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaking about that, and this is a little side tangent, I am so angry right now, Mike,

912
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,940
about United States Customs and Border Patrol.

913
00:46:00,940 --> 00:46:01,940
Very angry.

914
00:46:01,940 --> 00:46:08,520
I was led to believe that if you travel overseas, you can bring back cigars from overseas.

915
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,940
And overseas, you can get Cubans.

916
00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:12,320
You don't have to go to Cuba.

917
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,960
But and you could, you could bring back Cubans because Obama loosened the restrictions so

918
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,400
that you could bring back Cubans and then in 2020, suddenly you couldn't bring back

919
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:22,600
any Cuban cigars at all.

920
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,440
You could bring back other cigars, but I don't know what those cigars would be because if

921
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,440
it's not a Cuban, as we learned from gravy, it's going to be a new world cigar, which

922
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,880
you get here and you can get it here cheaper than you could get it anywhere else than here.

923
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,420
So there'd be no reason to bring cigars back from anywhere.

924
00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:40,440
And so under Trump, he tightened them up again.

925
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,400
So now you can't bring back Cuban cigars through customs.

926
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,760
If you travel, you can bring 100 cigars back for personal use, but they can't be Cubans.

927
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,200
It makes me angry, Mike.

928
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,480
Well, it's real weird that, you know, they quote unquote pro freedom people would restrict

929
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:00,440
your basic freedom to buy a product that's internationally known as being the best.

930
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:01,440
Yeah.

931
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,040
Or at least has a reputation of being the best.

932
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,320
But how would anyone here know?

933
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:06,320
Right.

934
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:07,720
And that was an on purpose.

935
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:10,560
They could have done nothing and then it would have been fine.

936
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:11,560
Right.

937
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,200
They could have gotten out of their way to limit freedom for Americans.

938
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:16,200
Yes.

939
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,720
Similar to like the bump stock issue that happened, which was a total fucking joke anyway.

940
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:22,720
Yeah.

941
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:24,200
Not to get into super specific details.

942
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,240
No, but we can be angry about certain things.

943
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:28,840
I am not angry about a bump stock.

944
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,480
The bump stock is a dumb thing anyway.

945
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,240
No, I don't get too fucked about a bump stock.

946
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:38,520
Even dumber to ban it, because if you look at how they're made, they're pretty easy to

947
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,300
self design.

948
00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:41,800
You know what I mean?

949
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:47,880
Yeah, especially with the proliferation of 3D printers and at home CNC machines and other

950
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:48,880
things.

951
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:53,640
Like you want a bunch of people that had no interest in doing that thing to do that thing,

952
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,920
ban it and then see how many people that just fucking hate the government do that thing

953
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:57,920
anyway.

954
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:58,920
You know what I mean?

955
00:47:58,920 --> 00:47:59,920
Yeah.

956
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:02,760
Like the local farm and fleet store sells springs.

957
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:03,760
Right.

958
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,760
So I don't know what else to say.

959
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:13,840
So ban springs and also plastic and then everything will be fine.

960
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:14,840
Right?

961
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:15,840
Yeah.

962
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:16,840
Yeah.

963
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,880
So it's so stupid.

964
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,400
And by the way, like bump stock, I don't know if you ever looked at how the mechanism works.

965
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:23,400
No.

966
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:24,400
Totally idiotic.

967
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,300
You cannot properly hold a firearm and have the bump stock actually activate because it

968
00:48:28,300 --> 00:48:29,300
works on a spring.

969
00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:32,800
You have to hold it loose so the spring pushes it forward, but you have to hold it loose

970
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,600
enough for the spring to actually push the firearm forward.

971
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,560
So who the fuck would do that?

972
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:39,560
Like I would not do that.

973
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:40,560
I don't know man.

974
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:41,560
It's nonsense.

975
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:42,560
I wouldn't do it.

976
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:43,560
Yeah.

977
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,000
Then that's why I haven't looked into it because I'm not interested in that.

978
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,000
I don't care.

979
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,360
I don't like I only looked into it because they banned it.

980
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,360
Well yeah.

981
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:51,360
See?

982
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,040
So you're the person, you're the guy that's going to go out and buy the springs.

983
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,320
I own no extra springs.

984
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,520
Show us your receipts, Mike.

985
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,560
I own no extra springs of any kind.

986
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,480
Yeah.

987
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:06,640
Check all of Mike's pens.

988
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:11,880
He takes the springs out of the pens to make bump stocks.

989
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:12,880
That's right.

990
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:13,880
I weld them together.

991
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,440
Very strong, very welded springs.

992
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:17,440
Yes.

993
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:18,440
Yes.

994
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:19,440
Yes.

995
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,080
So yeah, that was it for my topic, by the way.

996
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,240
I'm sure you noticed, but yeah, I mean, you know, the synthetic pain ended.

997
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:28,640
It may have parallels with certain things.

998
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:29,640
Yeah.

999
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:34,580
I was going to talk, that was going to be my other thing, Mike, is so in the fifties,

1000
00:49:34,580 --> 00:49:40,400
we had McCarthyism and the Red Scare or, you know, communist threat, right?

1001
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,600
And then in the eighties and nineties, it was a satanic panic.

1002
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:51,600
And then it seems like nowadays, which would be another, you know, 30 years beyond the

1003
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:56,440
eighties, nineties, 30, 40 years beyond again, same kind of cycle.

1004
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:01,600
We've got whatever we have right now that does not rhyme with coronavirus.

1005
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:02,600
Oh, fuck.

1006
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,460
I just said the thing or, you know, whatever else.

1007
00:50:05,460 --> 00:50:12,660
So is, is that kind of the societal trend is every 30 years, we have to have something

1008
00:50:12,660 --> 00:50:20,520
that we blame or something that we try to band together against to severely limit freedoms

1009
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,760
and choices and things.

1010
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,320
Well, we can go farther back because in the twenties, they had prohibition.

1011
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:28,320
Yep.

1012
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:29,320
Right.

1013
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:34,600
In the nineties, there was a depression, so there was like the Gilded Age Depression

1014
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,320
in the 1890s.

1015
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,840
And then before that, in the 60s, it was civil war.

1016
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:41,840
Right.

1017
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:46,120
And then in the thirties, they had a constitutional crisis then around slavery.

1018
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:53,880
So there has been seemingly a cycle of like crisis every once every generation and a half.

1019
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:54,880
Yeah.

1020
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:55,880
It doesn't affect.

1021
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,320
30 years, give or take.

1022
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:58,320
Yeah.

1023
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:03,480
It doesn't affect the people who were children or adults during the last crisis.

1024
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,560
It's the people who were too young to remember that time at all.

1025
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:12,200
Like I remember the tail end of the satanic panic and how goofy people were.

1026
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:18,560
Like it was a joke where I was at, you know, amongst like the adults in my social sphere.

1027
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:19,560
Right.

1028
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:20,560
Like they were joking.

1029
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,400
Like we were, my brothers are older than me and they were allowed to play Dungeons and

1030
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:24,400
Dragons.

1031
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:25,400
Right.

1032
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:26,400
Yeah.

1033
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,320
And they were gathering and shit like that, like they were not banned for doing that.

1034
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,520
But I do remember like the Tales from the Crypt and things like that that played into

1035
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:35,520
that.

1036
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:36,520
Yeah, for sure.

1037
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:37,520
Yeah.

1038
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,560
I know my parents were not keen on a lot of the music that my brothers and I wanted to

1039
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,480
listen to when we got to high school.

1040
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,440
And I don't know that they necessarily called it devil music.

1041
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:52,560
I don't know how much of let's say the satanic panic or religion played a part in it other

1042
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,800
than maybe it was just music they didn't appreciate or whatever.

1043
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,720
I remember one time growing up, my dad was a huge Bruce Springsteen fan.

1044
00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:04,880
Like when he was a kid, right, he was huge Bruce Springsteen fan and he'd always listened

1045
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:06,200
to Bruce.

1046
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,840
And I remember one time he was listening to some music that my brothers and I liked.

1047
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,040
And of course they say fuck.

1048
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,500
And he's like, oh, I just don't like how they swear in these.

1049
00:52:15,500 --> 00:52:19,000
So then what I did, because it was the age of the internet, I found a couple of songs

1050
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:20,800
for Bruce Springsteen says fuck.

1051
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,440
And then I sent him those songs and he was less than thrilled about that.

1052
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:28,280
But I did want to talk about my grandma on my mom's side real quick, because she was

1053
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:34,800
very religious and I think she bought the satanic panic hook line and sinker.

1054
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,320
So she, when I was in high school, you know, they have letter jackets, right?

1055
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:44,600
And so somehow she, I never really saw her much.

1056
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:50,220
I saw her maybe like three times in my life, but she somehow bought the letter jackets

1057
00:52:50,220 --> 00:52:51,220
for us, right?

1058
00:52:51,220 --> 00:52:53,640
Like the kids, like that was her thing, I guess.

1059
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,600
And we were the pirates.

1060
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,360
And so on the back of the letter jacket was the skull and crossbones, right?

1061
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:00,360
Pirate symbol.

1062
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,960
And she came to visit once and I was like, oh, hey, thanks for the letter jacket.

1063
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,320
Here it is.

1064
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,700
And she's like, oh, it looks great, except for the devil symbol on the back.

1065
00:53:09,700 --> 00:53:14,440
So I feel like she's definitely one of those, but she was very religious.

1066
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:20,720
And my other question is, so we've got the satanic panic where Dungeons and Dragons and

1067
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:26,840
let's say still on crossbones and other things are all like Satanist, but what about the

1068
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,680
churches and the religions that do the faith healing?

1069
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,480
Like that's not a show.

1070
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:37,160
That is so, did I tell the story about going to a Pentecostal church when I was in college?

1071
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,400
I don't think you did on the show.

1072
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:40,400
Okay.

1073
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,680
So I had a girlfriend from South Dakota and I was a freshman in college and I went to

1074
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,880
visit, you know, the folks for some sort of break, right?

1075
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:55,080
And they're Pentecostals and she warned me and I brought her to a Catholic church and

1076
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,760
she was like, that was wild and crazy, right?

1077
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:02,000
She'd never been to a Catholic mass before and got a good workout.

1078
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,280
Didn't have to work out later.

1079
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:04,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1080
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,760
And then, yeah, she didn't work out later because she already spent enough time on her

1081
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:08,760
knees.

1082
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:15,480
But so I'm sorry, whoever makes girlfriend was that wasn't meant at your expense.

1083
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,800
I was trying to make a Catholic joke.

1084
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:24,240
So I go to this Pentecostal church and people are waving their hands in the air and they're

1085
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:30,320
crying and there's this guy that's like crying and kissing his baby and like holding his

1086
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,520
hands in the air and the child is like in one of his hands, like a baby, like a one-handed

1087
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:35,520
baby.

1088
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:36,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1089
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:37,520
Okay.

1090
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,960
She was like, that guy's like a felon who just got out of jail like three years ago.

1091
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:41,960
Sure.

1092
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,920
And like they had like the band and her dad was in the band, you know?

1093
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:46,920
Okay.

1094
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,440
Was your dad the drummer?

1095
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,440
He was the bass player.

1096
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:57,280
And it was like the thing that you see on TV and I was like super uncomfortable.

1097
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:58,280
Oh my God.

1098
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,120
Did you go up to get healed?

1099
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,120
Did you go up to get healed?

1100
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:07,320
No, people were falling over and there was a lady who was babbling and talking in tongues.

1101
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaking in tongues, yeah.

1102
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,200
And I'm like, this is fucking like Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

1103
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,920
Man, I would love to go to one of those.

1104
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:20,400
I don't know, did I ever tell you, Mike, that I went to a full blown, like full blown, easily

1105
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,680
over two hours Catholic service?

1106
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:23,680
No.

1107
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:30,040
I went to a full Catholic service in Annapolis at the Naval Academy and it was all in Latin.

1108
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:31,200
Oh, they're naughty boys.

1109
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:32,960
I don't think they're really supposed to do that anymore.

1110
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,080
Yeah, I don't know.

1111
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:39,400
This was probably, hmm, early 2000s.

1112
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:40,960
Sure.

1113
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:46,180
We went for the national Boy Scout Jamboree and I actually, we went and I got to go up

1114
00:55:46,180 --> 00:55:51,540
on the upper outer dome balcony in the United States Capitol.

1115
00:55:51,540 --> 00:55:56,120
We got to see the sniper hole where the snipers lay when the president's doing a speech in

1116
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,040
the Rotunda area there.

1117
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:02,400
We got to go up open air on the balcony on the top of the Capitol building.

1118
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:03,880
And I went back a couple of years later.

1119
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:09,480
Of course, this was, this was, must have been 2000 or it might have been very early 2001.

1120
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,520
And we went back a couple of years later and the intern that was kind of giving us our

1121
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,000
Capitol tour, I was like, Hey, have you been up on the, on the dome?

1122
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,240
And she's like, no, no, no, I've not been up there.

1123
00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:21,240
Nobody, nobody who works here anymore has been up there.

1124
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:23,760
So, but that was that era, you know, it was pre 9 11.

1125
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:28,840
So they were doing the full Latin before they decided Latin was the language of Satan or

1126
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:29,840
terrorists or something.

1127
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:30,840
Yeah, yeah.

1128
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:35,640
They made a rule that you're supposed to do the mass in the language that your parishioners

1129
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:36,640
speak.

1130
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:37,640
So, okay.

1131
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,680
Nobody natively speaks Latin.

1132
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:40,680
So they're not,

1133
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:41,800
I mean, it was fascinating.

1134
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:42,880
I really enjoyed it.

1135
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:44,200
I didn't understand it.

1136
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:45,200
You know what I mean?

1137
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:46,480
But it was very interesting to me.

1138
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:47,680
I really liked that.

1139
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:53,000
Oh, I mean, if, if, if the listeners haven't gone to a full mass, you know, go like Easter

1140
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:54,920
Christmas or something, it's pretty interesting.

1141
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:59,040
A lot of standing, a lot of turning around, a lot of handshaking, a lot of kneeling, a

1142
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:03,040
lot of standing, a lot of we, uh, Sarah's cousin is Catholic.

1143
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,880
Well, I don't know that they're super Catholic, but they're, the family is super Catholic.

1144
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:13,040
And so their wedding was a two plus hour Catholic wedding, which is fine, except it was summer

1145
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:18,280
in St. Louis and the church for whatever reason didn't have air conditioning.

1146
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:23,960
So if you're going to go to a Catholic service, make sure the weather is moderate or they

1147
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:24,960
have AC.

1148
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,800
The church I went to as a kid didn't have AC and they had a fundraising drive and it

1149
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,400
took them like 10 years to pay for the AC unit for the church.

1150
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,200
Wouldn't God want them to have AC?

1151
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:40,160
You would think that, and this is like, you know, everybody has their like losing the

1152
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:41,160
faith story.

1153
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:45,400
And one of the things that really got me was that when the, when the church, like when

1154
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,720
I found out that the churches were all locking their doors and I was like, there's a few

1155
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:54,880
rural churches that don't, but even the churches in like moderate sized towns lock their doors.

1156
00:57:54,880 --> 00:58:00,080
And I'm like, what did you think that God could like protect the Lord's house?

1157
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:01,080
You know,

1158
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:07,400
I think Mike, because Sarah and I went to New York city last year, two years ago or

1159
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:08,760
something, maybe it was three years ago now.

1160
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:09,760
I don't know.

1161
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,160
Time fucking flies when you get older, dude.

1162
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:16,240
I don't know what to tell you, but we went to New York city and we went to one of the,

1163
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,600
one of the big churches, one of the big Catholic churches that's famous for their stained glass

1164
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:21,600
windows and stuff.

1165
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:22,600
And we went there.

1166
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:23,800
It wasn't a church night.

1167
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,960
It wasn't like a, what are the church nights?

1168
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,120
Like Wednesday and maybe Saturday night or Sunday.

1169
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,800
It was just a regular old day.

1170
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:30,800
And we went in.

1171
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:31,800
The doors were open.

1172
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:32,800
Nobody was in there.

1173
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,720
There was like one person praying and you know, the, the, uh, I'm so bad at Catholic

1174
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:37,720
stuff.

1175
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,840
The thing, the table of candles in like the red votives or whatever.

1176
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:41,840
You know what I mean?

1177
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:42,840
Sure.

1178
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:43,840
Yeah.

1179
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:44,840
The prayer candles or something.

1180
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:45,840
Yeah.

1181
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,720
Cause you can go in and you can light one for a family member or something.

1182
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:49,720
Right.

1183
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:50,720
I think, uh,

1184
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,240
yeah, you have to donate a dollar typically.

1185
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:53,240
Okay.

1186
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,560
And then, uh, so I should not have lit all those is what you're saying.

1187
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,160
I'm just, I'm, I'm teasing.

1188
00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:59,920
I didn't do that.

1189
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:02,520
But as an atheist, right?

1190
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:08,800
Like here I am talking about enjoying a two plus hour Latin Catholic service and enjoying

1191
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:15,320
going to a very old Catholic church in New York city, but that door was open in New York

1192
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:16,320
city.

1193
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:21,200
So I don't know the day and they undoubtedly have staff in there watching.

1194
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:26,580
They're just, they're not visible and they might, you know, it was, it was an evening

1195
00:59:26,580 --> 00:59:28,240
time when we went there.

1196
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,360
So it wasn't full on day.

1197
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:31,360
The sun was setting.

1198
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,360
Uh, I don't, maybe they lock it later.

1199
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:38,120
I don't know, but I get, I get your point where if you're locking your door, like the

1200
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:43,140
church is supposed to be a place, at least if you watch older movies, you can go and

1201
00:59:43,140 --> 00:59:47,960
claim sanctuary and this and that, and even not for legal reasons, but it should be a

1202
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,400
place where anyone can come in regardless of their faith.

1203
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:56,740
And that's what that's one of the main things, but, uh, that turned me off Mormonism outside

1204
00:59:56,740 --> 01:00:00,480
of them learning that they found a magic hat in the middle of the desert or something.

1205
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:07,000
But beside that, we went to go visit the Mormon headquarter, uh, where they had the Tabernacle,

1206
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,400
Tabernacle choir and their main building.

1207
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,680
I can't remember what it was called right now, but you walk around the grounds and they

1208
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:18,040
have all these things talking about how the early Mormons were fleeing religious persecution

1209
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:23,120
and they had to carry and carve these stone blocks to build this church and blah, blah,

1210
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:24,120
blah.

1211
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:25,120
And so we walked up the steps.

1212
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:26,760
We did a family trip back when it was in high school.

1213
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:31,600
We walk up the steps to like go in and check it out because every church should be open

1214
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,560
and we're from a really small town.

1215
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:37,040
So no, no church in our town is ever locked as far as I know.

1216
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,780
I don't think any business is ever locked either.

1217
01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:43,840
So if you want to make a bunch of money, uh, talk to me after the show, we'll split it,

1218
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,800
but the doors were locked and there was, there were attendance at every single door and they're

1219
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,840
like, Oh, you want to go and see this really cool church that we just told you was all

1220
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:53,840
built and everything.

1221
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,520
Well, you have to sign up and become a member and your membership has to go through and

1222
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,560
then you can come back and go in and look.

1223
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:01,440
And it's like, that's stupid dude.

1224
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:03,320
Like there's churches all over the place.

1225
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:07,360
I went to Westminster Abbey in London for fuck's sake and was able to go all the way

1226
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:08,360
up and take a tour.

1227
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:10,040
Of course I had to make a donation.

1228
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:15,360
Your cost money, but, but you could go into the, into Westminster Abbey for free in the

1229
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:16,360
main areas, right?

1230
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,840
But if you want to take the tour up to the dome and everything, you had to, you had to

1231
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,800
pay for the tour, but you're free to worship in there at any time, any hour of the day.

1232
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:29,400
So it's confusing to me coming from a small town and having the experiences in other churches

1233
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:34,400
from other faiths to where if you have a building that is historically significant, at least

1234
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,040
to your faith, have it locked until you become a member.

1235
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:42,240
Well, it's like one of, you know, that goes into the bite model, right?

1236
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:43,600
Like, yeah, for sure.

1237
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:51,600
The reason why you can walk into every Anglican church and just attend to service is because

1238
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,640
they're not a fucking cult and you can come and go as you please.

1239
01:01:55,640 --> 01:02:00,080
And there's no penalty for being there or not being there or whatever.

1240
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:01,080
It's your choice.

1241
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,120
They're not forcing you to do anything.

1242
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:11,000
I certainly have my own problems with religion, but I believe by and large, most of the local

1243
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:16,120
religious entities with church buildings and things are actually trying to do what they

1244
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,020
think is good, right?

1245
01:02:18,020 --> 01:02:27,440
Maybe not the actual pope and all of his minions in Vatican City or the head of whatever synod

1246
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:29,680
or whatever your church belongs to or that.

1247
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:34,280
But I think the local churches honestly try to do what they think is best.

1248
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:35,280
Right.

1249
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:36,640
I mean, here's a great example.

1250
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,680
I got two brothers, both got married in churches.

1251
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:40,760
One was in a Methodist church.

1252
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:42,120
One was in a Lutheran church.

1253
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:47,600
They did not card my goddamn Catholic grandmother or in some way tried to prevent her from coming

1254
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:52,480
to the church ceremony because she's a member of the Catholic church.

1255
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:57,080
They didn't even make my brothers join the Methodist or the Lutheran church because they're

1256
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:58,640
already members of the Catholic church.

1257
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,400
The Catholics would not allow them to get married in the Catholic church because their

1258
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,600
wives weren't Catholic.

1259
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,280
But they could have become Catholic if they wanted to and got married.

1260
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,640
They're not banned from going to Catholic church.

1261
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:13,560
They're just not allowed to get married in there because they're not both confirmed members

1262
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:15,400
of the church or whatever.

1263
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:21,600
And by the way, I've been to many Catholic weddings.

1264
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,120
You're allowed to not be a Catholic and come into the church and go to whatever you want

1265
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:26,120
to do.

1266
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:27,120
Yeah.

1267
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:32,160
And even the Catholics and the Lutherans and the other church services that I've been to,

1268
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:38,040
if they do the communion, the wafer and grape juice or wine, depending on the religion,

1269
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:40,120
it's open to anybody that wants to come and take it.

1270
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,640
They say if you normally take it, come up.

1271
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,840
But if you don't normally take it or if you're not a member of the faith, you don't go and

1272
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:46,840
take it.

1273
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:51,560
I mean, that's just kind of like the, not like code of conduct, but it's, you know,

1274
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:52,560
whatever that is.

1275
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:53,560
It's the honor system.

1276
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:54,560
It's the honor system.

1277
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:55,560
Yeah, it's the honor system.

1278
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:56,560
If you want to go take communion, go take communion.

1279
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:58,680
If you never take communion, go take it.

1280
01:03:58,680 --> 01:03:59,680
Nobody's going to check.

1281
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:03,280
It's not like you get up there and the minister or priest whispers in your ear like, give me

1282
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,640
the secret password for the communion wafer, the worst wafer you're ever going to taste

1283
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:07,640
in your life.

1284
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:08,640
They're not chicken IDs.

1285
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:12,200
You have to be, yeah.

1286
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:15,840
Come take this terrible tasting wafer and this rubbish wine.

1287
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:16,840
Yep.

1288
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:17,840
Yeah.

1289
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:20,360
It's that's because they're not cults.

1290
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,360
You're allowed to come and go as you please.

1291
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,440
You can come and go as you please.

1292
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:28,880
The priest for me, like giving cap, the priest is not coming to my house and harassing me

1293
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,200
because I haven't gone to church in 20 years.

1294
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:32,200
Yeah.

1295
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:33,200
Yeah.

1296
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:34,200
Yeah.

1297
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:35,200
Like you were there for your uncle's funeral.

1298
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:36,200
Why aren't you here now?

1299
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:37,200
Yeah.

1300
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:38,200
Yeah.

1301
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:42,480
I mean, I've seen it in all town, like a hallmark channel movies where it's like the priest

1302
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:47,400
is like, Oh Mike, I haven't seen you since the day, the day you were christened.

1303
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:48,880
How come you haven't been here?

1304
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,120
Like no, these pastors and priests, they have so many people that they interact with.

1305
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,720
They're not going to remember one person, no matter how small the town usually.

1306
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:56,720
You know what I mean?

1307
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:58,440
They might say something like that.

1308
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:02,880
They might, but it's not going to be like a potentially, but it's not really like a

1309
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:03,880
guilt trip.

1310
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,920
You know, I'll say, I haven't seen you on a long time.

1311
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:11,240
It's like, well, father, you know, I don't know how to tell you this, but I don't believe

1312
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:12,240
in Jesus.

1313
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:13,240
Yes.

1314
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:14,240
Yes.

1315
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:18,960
I really needed him when I was doing my 10 pin bowling and he failed me father.

1316
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:20,840
I don't know how to tell you this.

1317
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:21,840
He failed me.

1318
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:22,840
He split it.

1319
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:23,840
I got to split.

1320
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:25,360
I don't, what, what am I supposed to do with that?

1321
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:26,360
Jesus, tell me.

1322
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:27,360
I'm just kidding.

1323
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:32,320
What I heard that we had to add the 10th pin because of gambling laws and religious oversight.

1324
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,720
I just couldn't, I couldn't live with myself.

1325
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:36,720
I couldn't cope.

1326
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:37,720
I couldn't cope.

1327
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:42,120
So not to poke too much fun at religion.

1328
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:47,440
I mean, obviously it's, you know, I mean, if you belong to a religion that fulfills

1329
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:50,600
you, yeah, that's wonderful.

1330
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:55,520
And if you belong to a religion that is a little more exclusionary than the ones that

1331
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,240
Nate and I grew up in, maybe you should analyze that.

1332
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:02,360
Yes, I will tell you why that is.

1333
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:09,080
If you go to one of these new modern mega churches, somehow they know if you go in there,

1334
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,440
and I think I might've told this on the, on the podcast before, but I went, uh, one of

1335
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:19,240
my friends was getting baptized as an adult and it was a mega church and he knew I was

1336
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:23,920
an atheist, but he also knew that I am a photographer and he wanted me to take pictures of him getting

1337
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,880
baptized and I said, sure, I would love to like, that's awesome.

1338
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:33,840
And so I went in with my camera and I went and sat in the front row, which of course,

1339
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:38,000
not only did I get the main pastor, but his assistant pastor and like the third assistant

1340
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,280
pastor and the thing hadn't even started yet.

1341
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:44,880
I hadn't even like the seat wasn't even warm yet for me sitting down and I had three people

1342
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,320
upon me and my wife and like, Oh, you're new here.

1343
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:49,320
We haven't seen you before.

1344
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,200
Tell us what brings you in today.

1345
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,600
And I'm like, Oh, I'm an atheist and my friend is getting baptized today and you want me

1346
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:55,920
to take pictures.

1347
01:06:55,920 --> 01:07:00,440
And uh, and the assistant pastor like straight off so fucking fast.

1348
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:04,200
And the main pastor who is older, he was like, well, I think that's great.

1349
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,960
That's great that you come here and you show support for your friend.

1350
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:12,560
So you know, even there in a mega church where they're all about filling seats and the big

1351
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:18,800
production, I mean the stage, the stage was mechanical and it moved, moved apart and revealed

1352
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:24,040
this giant fucking pool under the stage and they had like a full five piece band playing

1353
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:30,400
all the hymns and like even there, like the main pastor who was a little older, wasn't

1354
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,800
trying to like guilt me into anything.

1355
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,480
He was just like, Hey, that's great.

1356
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:35,760
Great to show support for your friend.

1357
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:37,400
I hope you enjoy, I hope you enjoy it.

1358
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,920
I hope you enjoy the day, whatever, you know, where the younger assistant pastor was kind

1359
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,840
of like, Oh, I can't didn't know what to do with that information.

1360
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,800
So well, yeah, it's kind of like the young priest versus the old priest, right?

1361
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,520
Like the priest could have a lot more piss and vinegar than the old guy probably doesn't

1362
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:52,520
care a whole lot.

1363
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:53,520
Yeah.

1364
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,200
So I think at a certain point you're not converting anybody.

1365
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:57,200
You know what I mean?

1366
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:58,200
No.

1367
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,440
Have you ever seen the movie, uh, the quiet man, John Wayne?

1368
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:01,440
Yep.

1369
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:02,440
John Wayne.

1370
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:03,440
Yep.

1371
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:04,440
Yeah.

1372
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,160
I always, uh, the relationship that the Catholic priest and the Anglican, uh, pastor have.

1373
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:08,160
Oh yeah.

1374
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:09,160
Yeah.

1375
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:14,920
It's like, ah, growing up I was friends with the son of the Anglican, uh, pastor, preacher,

1376
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:16,400
whatever you want to call them, priest.

1377
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,200
And they very much, then the church, the Anglican church was right next to the, the Catholic

1378
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:21,200
church.

1379
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,960
And they very much had that sort of situation.

1380
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:24,960
Yeah.

1381
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:31,600
So, and that's a lot of the old mainline religions in the United States.

1382
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:32,600
Like all these, yeah.

1383
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:38,000
Like if you're a Methodist or a Lutheran or an Anglican or a, uh, a Catholic, you know,

1384
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,360
you're probably not that different.

1385
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:41,360
Yeah.

1386
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,400
No, there's more similarities and differences for sure.

1387
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:45,400
Right.

1388
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:50,400
I do want to say Mike that I had to relight my cigar once and I didn't really set it down

1389
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:51,920
for overly long.

1390
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:55,360
And then my cigar went out again and I've got, there's like an inch left, but I'm not

1391
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:56,680
going to relight it.

1392
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:57,680
Okay.

1393
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:58,840
I have about an inch left.

1394
01:08:58,840 --> 01:08:59,840
Mine did not go out.

1395
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:00,840
Okay.

1396
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:02,360
But I'm totally fine with being done.

1397
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:05,120
It's starting to get a little, now that I'm in the last inch, it's like, eh.

1398
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,240
I was getting a little bit of that sourness.

1399
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:14,080
I think the middle bit, the middle bit was the best part because it did kind of fill

1400
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:15,320
out a little bit.

1401
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:18,920
It got a little more flavorful, not overly so.

1402
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:23,320
Uh, the beginning part was very light, which is fine, which is fine.

1403
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:25,520
I'm trying to figure out how I feel about this one, Mike.

1404
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,760
Well, I'll give my thoughts here.

1405
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:35,160
It started off very light and it did gradually get stronger and it's not typically the kind

1406
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:39,040
of cigar that you and I would smoke.

1407
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:42,740
And that's, you know, kind of the issue, I guess.

1408
01:09:42,740 --> 01:09:46,920
It's not so much of an issue as it is a style preference.

1409
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:48,400
So I'm going to give it a three.

1410
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:49,400
I saw a three.

1411
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:50,600
I was thinking three.

1412
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:55,840
I think, I don't know, the first two thirds, I enjoyed it even though it's not really in

1413
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:57,520
my flavor profile wheelhouse.

1414
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:58,520
Right.

1415
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,680
But the last third was less than desirable.

1416
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:06,760
Like it didn't, the last third didn't build on the second third and it didn't do anything

1417
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,360
different or it didn't even maintain it.

1418
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:15,180
Kind of the last third kind of gradually got worse and worse as relative, worse in terms

1419
01:10:15,180 --> 01:10:16,440
of this cigar.

1420
01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:21,480
So I think a three is probably a fair assessment for this one.

1421
01:10:21,480 --> 01:10:22,840
I'm not overly thrilled with it.

1422
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,360
I think the first two thirds were fine.

1423
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:29,880
I got excited when it started building and then it just didn't do anything with it.

1424
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:30,880
So right.

1425
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:37,880
I mean, if you're a fan of Connecticut cigars or this is a natural, a lighter cigar, it's

1426
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:38,880
good.

1427
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:42,960
You know, I could definitely smoke this with a sweet tea or something in the middle day

1428
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:43,960
or middle morning.

1429
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,920
Yeah, I think this is probably a good summer stick.

1430
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:48,920
Oh yeah.

1431
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:49,920
Yep.

1432
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:50,920
Nice and light.

1433
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:56,760
I would, you know what, I would like to have this one with a Natterday, that lemonade natural,

1434
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:57,760
natural ice.

1435
01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,000
Yeah, that would be good.

1436
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:00,000
That or like a half and half.

1437
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:02,080
Like a lemon shandy or something.

1438
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:03,080
Yeah.

1439
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:07,440
I think, I think if you had like a little bit sweeter, not overly sweet, but a little

1440
01:11:07,440 --> 01:11:10,200
bit sweeter beverage to go with this.

1441
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,320
Like your iced tea was probably a very good choice, Mike.

1442
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:13,920
It paired very well.

1443
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:14,920
It did.

1444
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:16,960
Mine was unsweetened, but it was, yeah.

1445
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:17,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1446
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,640
But yeah, do we have more of the Arturo Fuentes, the smoke coming up?

1447
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:23,000
I don't know.

1448
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,120
I haven't made a list of everything.

1449
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:26,960
I should, but.

1450
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,560
We're moderately prepared, but not overly prepared.

1451
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:35,400
So you could spend all your life being prepared, but you also have to fly by the seat of your

1452
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:37,200
pants every once in a while.

1453
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:38,200
Right.

1454
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:41,120
I got a lot of stuff going on outside of the show.

1455
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:46,360
I'm not sure that everybody else listening, the only thing going on in your life is listening

1456
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:48,880
to this podcast, you know?

1457
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:49,880
Yeah.

1458
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,600
So, but no, I like it.

1459
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:57,840
I mean, I would recommend it if somebody really likes the lighter cigars, because it was pleasant.

1460
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,080
Yeah, it's pleasant cigars.

1461
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,080
My normal wheelhouse for sure.

1462
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:03,080
Yeah.

1463
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:07,400
And I think I would have, I would have rated a little higher if the last third would have

1464
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,280
been a little bit better for sure.

1465
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:10,720
So it's one of those ones.

1466
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:15,560
We've smoked these types before where, you know, the first two thirds or the first half

1467
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:17,740
are pretty solid.

1468
01:12:17,740 --> 01:12:23,960
And then towards the end, it's just, you know, not, not doing it anymore.

1469
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:25,280
So I agree.

1470
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:30,740
Anyway, we have an Instagram, we have a Patreon, we have a website.

1471
01:12:30,740 --> 01:12:34,760
We also had to convert our Google podcast to a YouTube.

1472
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:39,320
So we have a YouTube podcast channel now, and that is also where we'll be putting out

1473
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:45,120
some videos eventually when Nate has time, that fucker, to do some video stuff.

1474
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:49,520
Because we have video shot for at least two of our episodes, one all the way back from

1475
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,280
season one, if you can believe that.

1476
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:55,760
And those will eventually find their way to our YouTube channel.

1477
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:56,960
I believe they'll be there.

1478
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,040
I don't know that I'll put them behind the Patreon paywall, at least at this point.

1479
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:04,360
But if we get some bigger guests, those ones might go on the Patreon.

1480
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:05,360
We'll see.

1481
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:06,360
We've got lots of things cooking.

1482
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:12,960
Again, the Instagram generally, usually has more than the episode picture that you get

1483
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,320
on your wherever you listen to us.

1484
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,920
So you can get a couple more pictures of the cigar on our Instagram.

1485
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:20,120
We're looking for more followers.

1486
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:24,120
As we mentioned, we've got 69, which is very nice.

1487
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:28,900
But if we can hit triple digits, that would be even nicer and quadruple and beyond.

1488
01:13:28,900 --> 01:13:31,440
So give us a like a listen, a follow.

1489
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:35,100
If you have the time, write us a review on wherever you're listening to us.

1490
01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:39,080
Whether that's Spotify or Apple or wherever, we'd greatly appreciate it.

1491
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:40,320
And thanks for listening.

1492
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:41,320
Be safe.

1493
01:13:41,320 --> 01:14:05,520
Drive safe.