Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Nate.
And I am Mike.
What are we smoking today, Nate?
Well, we are not continuing the Saison series.
We are continuing the H. Upman 1844 series.
This is the H. Upman Reserve.
We smoked the H. Upman Reserve Cameroon last episode.
And this is just the straight reserve.
Yes, and this is a little bit darker.
It is moderately darker, not drastically darker.
No, they're very similar.
And the stick looks good.
Oh, yeah, it's great.
It smells great.
Yep, mine smells really good.
It's got some veins in it.
Yep, yep, it's a veiny bastard.
It is a veiny bastard.
I'm going to light this up.
I really enjoyed the Cameroon from last episode.
It was nice, it was pleasant all the way through.
It was.
I think you liked it more than I did.
You know what?
That's probably true.
I enjoyed it.
But I disliked the undershades more than you did.
So maybe it was part of the psychology of I need to like something more than Mike.
But it was an inoffensive stick.
It was nice.
It had a good taste and a good flavor.
It was constant all the way through, all the way up until my fingers started getting warm.
So what more do you want in a stick?
I agree.
It was good.
We're off air, we were talking about the Series R. And that's a great stick.
Oh, yeah.
I don't know that I'm going to go out and buy a bunch of H. Uphman Cameroon Reserves.
But if somebody was like, you know, hey, I'm interested in smoking some cigars.
Like what's a good place to start?
Like the H. Uphman Cameroon Reserve probably isn't a bad place to start.
No, this has got a good start as well.
So this has a great start to begin with.
You know, I mean, you know, sometimes it's like cigars are situational.
And we've talked about this on the show.
Like, oh, if I'm going to mow the lawn, I'm not going to smoke a Series R.
Or if I'm at a bonfire with some buddies, am I going to smoke a Series R?
If we're going to go and like do shots later or anytime, you know, like, I don't know, like,
maybe I'll do a Dark Shark.
Maybe I'll do a Shrew.
Maybe I'll do a HP Cameroon, you know, that HP.
I was thinking of the HP Lovecraft again.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, like that that last cigar and this one to possibly be a good one for on the lake
or on a golf course.
You know, you just got a couple of them, you know, and it's like,
yeah, if I put it out, I put it out.
If I don't, I don't, you know, but it's it's good all the way through.
So we have another interesting topic and this one,
I know a few people who are listening are excited for this one, strangely enough.
I know, I know it was a listener suggested.
So we have a new grassroots campaigning, Mike, marketing, some grassroots marketing.
I have I got us some new listeners and all that fancy stuff.
So that was my one of my goals, I guess.
Yes.
So what are we talking about?
So I'm not going to bury the lead on this.
So what I'm going to do here is I'm going to tell a little story.
So, as you know, we have a dog and we take this dog to various locations,
a dog parks and at one of these dog parks, there's a gentleman that started talking to me
and he handed me a business card and I love those people, by the way.
Oh, yes.
On the backside, it says Minnesota State Assembly.
Think you are a US citizen?
Probably not.
Think you are a citizen of the United States?
Probably not.
You are an American state national.
Correct your status.
Join your state assembly.
And it's got a couple of websites and these three websites are going to come up
quite often because I got a lot of information off of one of them.
And then the other one is one of these gurus of this movement.
Was one of them Amway?
No, it was not.
It was not.
So we call these people sovereign citizens, but the sovereign citizens themselves do not call
themselves sovereign citizens.
They consider it to be an oxymoron.
They call themselves state nationalists.
Wait, was this person from Texas?
No, this person that I'm going to be talking about quite a bit is from Alaska.
Are they the one that is now listening to this?
No, no, no, no, no.
The person who the people who are looking forward to it are Minnesotans.
Okay.
Were they the people that we were shooting with the other day?
Okay.
I thought so.
Yes.
Yes, they were.
So the sovereign citizens or the state nationals, they consider sovereign citizen to be an
oxymoronical slur.
And yes, they don't consider state national to be an oxymoron because, well, we'll get into that.
Even though I would consider.
I mean, yeah, I understand where you're coming from.
I understand where they're coming from.
Like, constitutionally speaking, the powers not designated to the federal government are
relegated to the states.
So, I mean, I guess I get that portion of it, but it's awfully hard to prove legally.
You know what I mean?
Oh, I certainly do.
I certainly do.
It gets pretty deep in the bullshit on this.
Well, buckle up.
We're going into the weeds.
We are going into the weeds.
So for those who don't know about the sovereign citizens, look it up on YouTube and you'll see
Internet videos of people getting the shit kicked out of them by cops for not having license
plates and not having drivers licenses and driving their cars around or there being a
trial because they're not paying taxes or child support.
And their claim is that if they file paperwork that they don't have to pay taxes or child
support or have drivers licenses or pay tabs and stuff, which is total garbage.
Yes.
So I mean, I guess like and maybe you're going to talk about this, but there are legitimate
sovereign citizens that have done and filed the paperwork to become thusly so.
Right.
No, no.
So what about diplomatic immunity or some shit like that?
People who have diplomatic immunity are not American nationals, right?
Diplomatic immunity is for agents of a foreign government that are protected so that they can
negotiate treaties and things like that.
Yeah, they're not underage children in our right.
They're here on governmental missions.
Yeah, they're not American citizens or sovereign citizens.
Well, a lot of this would necessarily be American citizens.
They would just be an individual person, but then they're not they're not entitled to the
same protections of the Constitution, yada yada.
Right.
Like they would totally get a one way ticket to Gitmo and have a fun time waterboarding.
Right.
I guess so.
They don't have a constitution.
They're not part of the Geneva Convention.
Isn't that what they did?
Isn't that what Bush and Obama did with Gitmo?
Is they said all these people, all these terrorists were sovereign citizens and they
weren't part of the government.
So they labeled them as sovereign citizens so they could waterboard the shit out of them.
My understanding is that they labeled them as terrorists and they made an exemption in
the Patriot Act that if you're picked up in a war zone where they're fighting the war on terror,
as long as they don't bring you to the United States soil, they can torture you more or less.
So like Gitmo is not on US soil.
It's a military base that's on in Cuba.
Right.
And they have a couple other bases.
Which is US soil for all the right reasons and not US soil for all the wrong reasons.
Right.
It's like Abu Ghraib.
Right.
Yeah.
Like it's a military base.
It's not US soil.
Even though if you're born on it as an American, then you are an American citizen.
Yeah.
That sort of thing.
Like I said, it's American soil when it's convenient and not when it's not.
Right.
So I searched this website and I did some research obviously outside of their website.
Yeah.
And what I found, and we're going to talk about the individuals, but the propaganda itself is
largely a handful of people.
And I looked at one woman's website and it's all psychobabble and legalese that sounds really good.
And some of it has some references to real laws in the past.
Yeah.
But it's only the first part.
Yeah.
It's like the first part.
And we'll talk about specific instances like why they think they don't have to pay fucking income
tax and why they think that the American flag is not the American flag and why they think they
don't need a passport and why they think they don't need a driver's license.
All this stuff.
I mean, to be fair, there's no constitutional precedent for having a driver's license
or concealed carry license or any kind of license.
That's true.
But we do.
Yeah.
That's right.
I mean, you know.
Right.
So the sovereign citizens.
I'm interested.
Yeah.
Sovereign citizens basically believe that if they fill out this paperwork on this website and they
send it to random government officials in each of the 50 state governments, then they are no longer
required to follow all the rules that we have to, more or less.
Classic.
And this is the people who are running this, like Anna Maria Reitzinger, aka Anna von Reitz, aka
Judge Anna.
She's paying her taxes, right?
She has to be.
She doesn't want to go to jail, dude.
She doesn't want to go to jail.
So this Anna von Reitz, aka Anna Reitzinger, who claims to be a judge of a common law
court in Alaska, which is not real, by the way, isn't real, dude.
She is not a judge.
There she is not a judge.
Her judgeship.
OK, I thought you were like Alaska is in the thing and it was some kind of like, you know.
Yeah.
Well, it's a scam.
It's kind of like Antarctica.
Yeah.
Exists doesn't exist.
The earth is not round.
I mean, come on.
Of course, it's fucking flat.
We are not round earth shills on this show.
Absolutely not.
I fell off the edge of the world twice.
Come on.
Did I tell you about having a conversation?
I have a friend who's a pilot and I asked him about.
Yeah.
All right.
I'm not going to tell the story again.
No, tell it now.
Tell it now.
I want to hear.
OK, so I go on a fishing trip every year and one of the guys I know is a pilot and he owns a plane.
He actually lives in a plane hangar.
He turned his he bought a hangar.
He turned it into his house and he flies a plane as like his major pastime hobby.
And he had never heard of the flat earth conspiracy theory.
And he looked at me like I was an idiot.
And he asked me why I'm like looking at all this dumb shit on the Internet.
Then he explained for 15 minutes about how the earth is round and how he can prove it.
Yeah.
There are pilots who fly and still believe in flat earth.
My favorite.
One of my favorite things is people that say the moon landing in 19, what was it, 68 was CGI.
And then they show 40 some years later from Scorpion King, like the Mummy Scorpion King.
And you're CGI in like 2004 and it looks terrible.
It's like how would they how could anybody do this in the 60s or 70s, even the 80s?
Like there's no way they could see the guy.
See the fucking moon.
It's a little insane.
My buddy said that when he plots courses, he flies a lot.
A hundred and thirty mile trip back and forth.
Yeah, pretty commonly.
And he'll set it all up on his instruments and set it into autopilot.
And he said that part of it is he has to take in terrain and the curvature of the earth
to plot his course so the plane doesn't fly too high.
And he basically fucks his plane up after like it was flat.
You wouldn't ever have to change altitude, right?
Right.
Or you'd constantly it would stay constant for you.
You would just say, hey, I'm here.
Right.
Straight like driving on a highway.
Like you don't exactly.
And he's he's flown several hundred miles on a trip.
Yeah.
And he's like, the longer it is, you know, the more of this calculation has to has to
make your arc so that you don't get too high in the ozone and your engine doesn't run out
of oxygen, basically.
Yeah.
And burn stuff up.
I feel like the government just pre-programs that value into all aircraft, right?
So that they're perpetuating.
He does not have a modern plane.
I'm just fucking with you, dude.
OK.
I'm sure that I'm like.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
It's all a lie.
Yeah.
That's all a lie.
So my Minecraft world is flat.
So this one has to be right.
Well, exactly.
I mean, we live in a simulation.
Yeah.
Yeah, so anyway, these sovereign citizens are creating a shadow government that they
call the state assemblies.
Have you heard of these state assemblies?
You can't see this, but I'm doing the Mitch McConnell.
So these state nationalists have created a series of what they call state assemblies
and common law courts based on land law or law of the land.
And they have the sovereign martial service and all these not.
They're governmental organizations in very strong parentheses, right?
That these state nationals voluntarily do.
And of course, this.
When you said they do this, my first thought was like, so they're doing the law of the
land and my first thought was so they're doing like plantation owner law.
So this is an exact quote.
Oh, no.
Let's see here.
I try.
Yeah, here we go.
You have law for people and you have law for corporations.
The American common law is a law that owed that is owed the people and maritime and
admiralty law.
This is owed to corporations and federal citizens who are employees of the federal government.
Global law is to keep the peace, to respect free will within the parameters of each individual
so that I am not impressing my will on you and to treat others as you would like to be
treated.
American common law is the law of the land based on the biblical Ten Commandments.
It was adopted because basically the Ten Commandments were acceptable to both the Jews and to the
Gentiles.
And that's why they basically arrived at that conclusion that everybody agreed these
were ten things nobody should do.
You know, I mean, they had me until they said biblical law, I guess.
Well, I mean, like, so let's just I don't really want to be playing devil's advocate
this whole time because you've researched this and stuff.
But like, isn't that the dream, though?
Right.
Like we've talked about it before.
Like, in my opinion, your right to swing your fist ends when your fist hits my face.
Right.
So like in even last episode, you're like, oh, people want to do heroin, like as long
as they're consenting adults and know the risks and everything like, yeah, heroin shouldn't
be illegal.
Like you should be able to go do that.
You should be able to go like whatever, like who gives a fuck?
You should be able to do it as long as you're of age and you've got the information and
stuff.
So like, sure.
I mean, I get it.
I get the appeal.
Like who wants to be told by the government what is or isn't acceptable in your life?
Especially if you're a loser who can't follow the rules of society like a normal person.
Well, I mean, I guess it depends on your definition of loser and depends on your definition of
the laws.
You know, like should we have to pay income tax when Jeff Bezos doesn't?
I don't know.
Should I?
Well, that goes back to the story of how all this got started.
Yeah, Jeff Bezos.
Not Jeff Bezos.
It was Nelson Rockefeller, actually.
OK, so this so let me finish my other thought real quick.
Yeah.
Should I have to drink out of a paper straw when Bill Gates is jetting around on his fucking
private jet?
You know what I mean?
Like I mean, like so I'm not saying that these people are sane.
I'm just saying like the base tenant up until the Ten Commandments.
I mean, like, of course, like most of the Ten Commandments, except for like don't take
the Lord's name in vain.
Like fuck that bitch.
Right.
But like, you know, don't covet your neighbor's wife.
Don't kill people.
Don't be a giant dickwad.
Basically, you know, I'm not going to steal people.
You know, like most of those are fine.
Like that's that's perfectly rational, perfectly rational.
But I don't know that everybody's agreed to them for one.
But you could just say like golden rule instead of saying Ten Commandments.
Like, oh, everybody agrees with the golden rule.
And I know that's like a biblical thing.
Right.
But you could just say like, treat people how you want to be treated.
That's fine. It's no big deal.
Sure. And that's, you know, that's that's how a lot of people get hooked into this,
is that some of it does make sense.
And it does sound very legalese like you mean just enough of it makes sense for the average idiot.
People who believe this are not the average idiot.
They are less than the average idiot.
I'm trying to be nice.
I am not being nice.
People who believe this stuff, who are convinced by the idea that the federal government is running on
maritime law and that if you declare yourself a national sovereign and don't recognize the legitimacy
of the corporate entity that is the United States, that you're somehow exempt from following the law,
traffic laws like that's idiotic.
Can I clarify one thing?
Yes.
Did you say maritime law or maritime law?
Maritime law. Maritime law.
Like maritime, like M-E-R-R-Y time.
Well, maritime law.
Well, I've got a whole slew of things I'm going to do.
No, maritime law.
I don't fuck with you.
I fuck with you.
Yeah.
Like you said you like pronounce it like maritime law.
And I was like, I know.
Shit. Is that some new law?
I'm not familiar with.
Like I could be Mary.
I've been diving into this and most of it is so moronic that I like can't.
I can't even explain what they're trying to say because they're not saying anything.
They're using this.
Anna Reitzinger is just using fancy terminology.
She uses a lot of $10 words to say nothing because the fact is if you don't pay your
income tax, they are going to come and put you in prison.
That's a fact.
Right.
I mean, that's like that's literally the only kind of debt imprisonment that's still legal in America.
Like that's not true because if you don't pay your child support, they can put you in prison
if it goes over $20,000.
Yeah. So it's child support and taxes.
But otherwise, if you don't pay your medical bills, they can't put you in prison.
If you don't pay your quicker bills, they can't put you in prison.
So, you know, like maybe don't listen to somebody who says don't pay your taxes.
I don't know.
I mean, they don't really teach taxes in high school.
So like I understand if you don't get it, but somebody knows that you know and you got to pay it.
Like I don't say you have an employer.
Yeah.
I've never worked for an employer that gave me the option to not file a W-2.
That's not an option.
They take the taxes.
Absolutely not.
You can choose if you're paying extra in or.
Well, on your W-4, you can claim like certain exemptions and things like that.
Right.
But they're still sending taxes in.
You know what I mean?
They still take taxes, but you can set your withholding rate.
Right.
Still withholding rate.
You can't say I'm not going to pay anything.
Right.
You can pay the minimum and risk having to pay in at the end or you can pay the maximum
and risk losing the interest on what they will give you back.
You know what I mean?
But by and large, and we're not tax professionals.
I am not a tax professional.
But by and large, it's probably better to just have them pay you back because if you're worried
about paying in, you're not making enough to have any interest on what they would pay you back.
So it doesn't matter.
You know what I mean?
So just have them withhold the maximum and then get that back and be happy with your life.
Instead of having them withhold the minimum and then you having to pay in at the end
because you're still not going to come out ahead.
You're never going to come out ahead unless your name is Bezos or Zuckerberg or Musk
or whatever the fuck.
Right.
And they have professionals to make sure that they don't pay.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Yeah.
And I mean, some of the things that they say on this website.
Do they have the disclaimer that they're not tax professionals?
Oh, they are.
I'm sure.
I'm sure that somewhere buried on this website.
If not, I'm going to not file my taxes and then sue them.
So their claim about passports is you don't need to have a passport to cross a border.
They have a very complex scheme.
That's I mean, that's technically true.
You can't you can't go through you can't go through just any border point.
But if you can find a border point that's not manned, sure, you don't need a passport.
They're claiming.
I mean, there's a few high points with all this nonsense.
So this American States Assembly stuff is all run by this Anna von Reitz,
who claims to be a judge, who's not.
I'm not going to say who claims to be a German.
No, no, no.
All of these things on this website, they're webinars and classes.
You have to pay money to see how to fill out this paperwork.
Of course.
Right.
And so for the passport, it's a long convoluted process of sending yourself a postcard.
And on it, you have to buy a fake stamp from her called a world one dollar world stamp.
And as long as the the the post office stamps it with your locality on there,
then suppose according to them, now you can you can cross international borders
legally with that because of land law of the land or some shit versus maritime law.
Heavy air quotes because of reasons.
It's because well, they have all these legalese terms and they like to use capitalization.
Like capitalizing makes it, you know, doesn't the right thing.
Look, this is some free advice for Anna Von Third Reich.
Charge like 15 bucks, then you're set for life, man.
Like charge 500 bucks.
People will pay that shit because they're idiots.
Oh, right.
Like, hey, you got to buy this phone another stamp from me
and then you're free to go anywhere you want.
There's a payment structure.
By the time they figure out that you're full of shit, they're in Gitmo getting water boarded.
Right.
There's a payment structure for all this stuff.
And it's like, you know, you know what, Mike?
Yeah.
Waterboarding in Guantanamo Bay sounds fun if you don't know what either of those things means.
That's true.
Yeah.
Did you ever see the Chris Hitchens waterboarding video?
No.
Oh, it was great because he was like a supporter of waterboarding initially
until they water boarded him and he was like, no, this is torture.
Yeah.
So it's the worst thing ever.
Like it's terrible.
I never done it, but I'm not a risk taker.
But I know that they hung people at Nuremberg for waterboarding American soldiers.
So apparently back in World War II era, they thought it was torture.
That's all I can say about that.
You know what I mean?
If we do it, though.
So, I mean, not to go into the super specifics, which we will later if we want to.
The core belief is that income tax is illegal for all Americans other than
black people and employees of the federal government.
Oh, you lost me with the black people and employees of the federal government.
I believe income tax is illegal for everybody.
So they say they legitimize this claim because the 14th Amendment
made black people specifically national citizens while non-black people are state citizens.
Does this does this argument bring any bells for you?
All I'm going to say as an atheist, I'm going to say Jesus Christ.
What the fuck are they talking about?
So their argument is that the Civil War was not a war between the North and South over slavery.
It was about states' rights and about a corporate entity taking over the U.S.
government that was led by Abraham Lincoln.
OK.
Was the corporate entity Lincoln Logs?
It was incorporated.
Oh, OK.
Like Lincoln Logs would have been awesome.
Right.
Like, can you imagine if our government was funded by the Lincoln Logs?
That would be tremendous.
You can still buy Lincoln Logs.
That's what I like.
Oh, yeah, you can.
I had so much fun as a kid with Lincoln Logs.
I cannot like.
Yeah, I had fun with the N64 and the original Nintendo, the NES.
But like we may have my brothers and I had so much fun.
Like we built all these force with Lincoln Logs.
And we built like little cannons.
Catapults.
Yeah.
And we would like we would like fucking, you know, like just like wreck shit on each other's
like frontier force and stuff with the Lincoln Logs.
But it's so fun.
And it's just like little pieces of wood, you know.
And now, like my daughter gets upset when there's like an eight second commercial on her YouTube
video.
And I'm like, OK.
When I was a kid, we only got cartoons like Saturday mornings and there was like five
minute commercials.
So I don't know what you're planning about.
Like, this is great.
Like, this is the best has ever been.
Like, it's never been better than this.
Oh, I feel like maybe I'm old, you know, like maybe I'm old.
I don't know.
Oh, we're getting old for sure.
So anyway, not to get off topic too far.
These people or their doctrine is to deny the legitimacy of constitutional amendments.
And they also seem to think that the Articles of Confederation are still active laws.
A law in the US.
You could have said the sovereign citizens are all KKK members.
You could have.
They're not KKK members, but they are.
Are you sure they're definitely an extension of the state's rights argument, right?
Like we talked about the states, our argument is an argument.
Is it an argument?
It's not a legitimate argument, but it's a lot of this is an excuse.
Is that an excuse?
It's an excuse.
Yeah.
And like I say, it's all a lot of legalese.
So this Anna von Reitz, who claims a self-proclaimed judge, she writes a lot of books.
Shocker.
And you can buy them on Amazon.
And I'd love to.
Oh, and she has a co-author and a lot of them.
His name is David Robinson.
And I'm going to write you or read you what he wrote about himself as his author page.
Yes.
No, no.
David Robinson is a journalist and author living in the mid coast area of Maine.
For his publications, see a tiny URL address like he's a only fans girl.
Yeah.
He's using like a free like URL condenser instead of like using his own website thing
to make the URL small.
Yes.
Okay.
David Robinson served as a grand juror capitalized seated under some capitalized.
Dragon, a grand dragon.
A lot of these terms have a very similar ring to that.
And I listened to one of this Anna von Reitz's speeches and Sarah stared at the computer like,
oh, my fucking God.
Are they are they also masons or?
I don't think so.
So anyway, he was a grand juror seated under summons capitalized on the Cumberland County
Maine grand jury, all capitalized during the first four months of 2014.
He is a graduate of the Brunswick Maine Police Academy, capitalized of a number of years back.
David Robinson publishes the Maine Republic email report, all caps.
And then they got their little website.
Classic.
So all this stuff that all of his little credentials are all bullshit,
sovereign citizen nonsense.
None of it's real.
I was going to say bullshit.
Yeah, there is no Cumberland County Maine grand jury.
There is no grand juror.
There is no whatever.
Mike, you need to be respectful because there totally is that stuff.
Yes.
This is what he tells himself before he goes to bed every night.
Oh, yes.
And he's some like he's Shum Schlepp, right?
That this other like Anne Anna von Third Reich convinced to write all of her books for her.
He's the ghost author, but he gets a co-author credit because
he saw her naked once or something.
And so now he can get co-author credit.
But he writes all the shit.
And she's just like, no, it was written by me.
But also, like he did like a chapter here or there.
You know, she's right.
Yeah, she's writing this stuff.
She's it's all psycho babble with like, like I say, she uses a lot of five and ten dollar words
that mean nothing.
This mean nothing.
When Judge Anna was asked about her courtroom, she said the state of Alaska stopped offering
justice of the peace services some time ago.
As far as we're concerned, we have a need for such services and we have the right to
self govern and do this.
So we set up people that want to reclaim their state national status.
I want to live under the law of the land instead of the law of the sea.
Law of the sea, according to them, is corporate law.
And that's that's how does that?
I don't.
It's nonsense.
I'm going to sound a little like a little mentally challenged.
And I don't mean that in a bad way.
Like, I'm just going to sound like I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't
I don't know what that means.
Like law of the sea versus law of the land.
Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
Not listen to this again.
Again, OK, listen to this.
I am sick and terrified of having people say I'm not a judge and asking me in what sense
I am a judge and coming up with all these silly suppositions and accusations.
I am a judge of the actual Alaska state capitalized, one of the several states capitalized
of the continental United States capitalized.
I occupy the actual public office and operate the actual Alaska State Superior Court capitalized.
So does Alaska State a couple of questions?
Does Alaska State have a superior court?
I'm sure they have a Supreme Court of some variety.
I'm guessing so.
She said superior, not supreme.
Also, also, and I don't know, maybe I went to a different high school than she did.
A continental United States is the 48, not Alaska.
So I don't know what she's talking about being like part of the continental United States.
Like, I'm glad you're still part of the continent, but you're not part of the continental United
States, according to my high schooling.
I mean, my high schooling was in like, you know, rural Wisconsin.
So maybe it's not true, but it seems a lot more sound than whatever the fuck she's talking about.
What other big things as they try to make?
They try to differentiate between the corporate state of, let's say, Minnesota, since I live here.
And the land of Minnesota, right?
They're saying that, oh, yeah, the corporate state of Minnesota is run by the corporate
government of the United States, but the land of Minnesota is run by the state assembly of
Minnesota, of which they have self-elected themselves to.
OK.
Well, you know what, Mike?
Yes.
You're Lord Mike of the Dell.
I'm fucking king of the universe.
So why are we even paying anything to anybody?
You know what I mean?
Like, I just have appointed myself the ultimate ruler of all.
So and you're Lord Mike of the Dell.
So of course, like you're equal to me.
Oh, this gets even better.
Everybody should be paying us like we're the two top most beings.
You can send your money.
Our PayPals and Venmos are as follows.
I'm just kidding.
Go on, Mike.
So this lady who has books, she's she's making profit off these crazy books on the Internet.
No, she's make a profit on these have books.
She had some like schlep like write books on her behalf.
She's got a lot of websites.
She's got a lot of sites like a library that she actually reads.
I don't think no.
She was a waitress before she did this.
It's not like she's got any sort of read.
Do not drag waitresses.
She's getting into this shit.
Her insanity is completely separate from being a waitress.
That's possibly true.
Anyway.
Oh, my God.
So anyway, she's got these websites where you give her money.
Oh, of course, through credit cards, right?
Pictures of her feet or what?
No, no, you get videos of her spouting these nonsense terms.
I don't want to give you a PDF.
You can download a PDF file and then you can fill it out.
Get those videos.
Well, the funniest part is that all this paperwork you like download a PDF, right?
You fill it out and then they'll give you like a random bureaucrat in your state
or just a state like an office and I could find it.
I didn't get that deep into it, but they're having it send you.
They're sending it to like some random bureaucratic office worker
in the state government of your choice.
Some intern, I'm sure.
Yes.
And their argument is that and you have to get it notarized.
You have to pay to get it notarized by them.
Of course.
By like her.
Why not?
Because she's a state assembly notary, not a regular notary.
But she can't notarize it if she's not physically there.
Don't ask me how they do it.
They have their own rules about how they notarize things.
Did you pay them money, Mike?
Well, how the land?
No, I did not.
Thank God.
The show would reimburse you.
We would take our first five dollars of income
and we would reimburse you, Mike, for this to do the research, the heart hitting,
realistic investigation.
Anyway, the crux is that you pay this money for the course
and then you pay more money for this PDF that you fill out.
You pay more money on top of that to get it notarized by them.
Oh, I thought it was you pay more money to convert the PDF to a Word document.
Oh, that'd be great.
I don't know how it works.
And then you send it in to this random government office
that has a secretary or a state worker, a government worker of some variety.
Presumably.
And then if they don't send it back to you denying your request,
then you're a sovereign citizen.
You don't have to follow any of the rules.
That's what they're saying.
So basically, you send this document that's all nonsense.
A person in office reads it.
They throw it in the garbage because it's bullshit, right?
Because it's nonsense.
It's nonsense.
And then now magically, you can not follow any rules anymore, more or less.
That's the claim is you leveled up, right?
Like, yeah, you leveled up.
And like I say, they have all these people calling themselves
state assemblymen and state marshals and judges who are LARPing
and pretending like they're a shadow government, I guess, that I mean, yeah,
runs around.
But the thing is, is that like this lady who's putting all this information out,
she has to be paying taxes because if she wasn't,
she'd go to jail.
And the thing is, there's cases where people like her, not her specifically,
but her like little minions have actually followed her belief system.
And guess what?
They went to fucking jail.
They went to jail.
I know it's shocking.
Lo and behold.
I can't believe it.
Yeah, it's weird.
So there was a court case that I read and I read the case.
United States versus David Lugar's L-E-U-G-E-R-S.
Yeah.
All right.
I'm going to bring it up.
Yeah.
And this guy, basically, he didn't pay his income taxes.
And he sent the court a letter saying that he didn't have to pay his income taxes
because of all this nonsense that she's putting out there.
And this judge basically wrote a long document with all this case law
saying like everything that you're saying is bullshit.
And she named Judge Anna Maria Reitzinger as a person that he used as a reference for all this.
And then she used like cases after cases from 91, from 2010, from 2009, you know, from 94.
Saying like...
I might surprise you, Mike, but I fully believe there's no shortage.
There's no shortage.
Of legal cases to throw these people in the fucking jail.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
And of course, you know, he tried to charge a $15,000 fee to even show up to court and all this stuff.
And of course, he got his ass thrown in the slammer.
Of course.
There's another case.
This is child support.
A gentleman named Kevin Raimi, who I will bring you to his LinkedIn page.
He did not pay $84,000 in child support.
So he got charged.
That seems like a lot of money to not pay.
Well, apparently, in the state of Alaska, where he's from,
if you owe more than $20,000 in child support, it's a classy felony.
Of course.
So he also filed all this nonsense with the court and it went nowhere.
All right.
Like he's getting charged with a felony, like no doubt.
Right.
So a little background about this guy.
He's a real winner.
I tried to look up his stuff because he's from like some shithole town in Alaska, Coleskig, Alaska or something.
And it turns out his son...
Sounds great.
...who he wasn't paying child support for is a burglar and a highway robber, who was a felon,
who was found dead in the ditch somewhere.
And he is going to shock you, is like a loser.
So on his LinkedIn page, Kevin Francis Birdman Raimi,
who is assistance of counsel and founder SGCAS at Sui Juri Court Angels Foundation.
Right.
So he's claiming to be a lawyer.
I'm passionate about fair play and equal protection under common law, capitalized.
I fight to protect our most fundamental inherent rights, under world, under God.
Yes.
Not paying for my child.
So experience, right?
Under his LinkedIn.
Assistance of counsel and founder of the Sui Juri Court Angels.
The only way for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Is a utility platform.
But shirking my child payments is not evil.
That's right.
Yep.
So he's a counsel, legal counsel under this citizen rights movement.
His education, right?
For it to be a lawyer, a counsel.
He went to the University of Hard Knox in Life, Bachelor of Science, Judicial Balancing.
I would hire him in a heartbeat.
And he was an Alpha One as his activity.
I don't know what that means, but I'm sure it's great.
So this is who these people are, right?
I mean, I was only in beta two, so I don't, you know, like, of course, he's way better than me.
Yeah, this is who these people are.
He's a fucking loser, right?
Well, he pays fucking child support.
I don't want to say he's a Republican because he doesn't care about the child after it's born.
But like, my God, you racked up $84,000 of not paying for your child.
Hey.
Like, regardless of like state states rights, right?
Like, regardless of states rights, should you not pay for your child, your offspring?
Like, regardless, like even if a federal or a corporate, like maritime law thing said
you had to pay for your child, like, wouldn't you just pay for your fucking child?
Like, what's so hard about that?
It's not that hard.
This is the sort of stuff that these sovereign citizens try to get away with, right?
Like, they're just losers.
I mean, I'm not arguing with you.
I'm just saying like in general, like I'm trying to be the every man or the every person
or the every they them, X, Z, Y, whatever the fuck.
You know, like, wouldn't you just like, if you had a child, regardless of all of the other shit,
like, I don't care what gender you are.
I don't care.
It doesn't matter.
If you have the income to help support that child, regardless of how it came about,
regardless of your gender, regardless of your sexual preferences, isn't that what be,
isn't that like the base, like the base human instinct is like, I should pay for my child?
Like, and of course, like there's spouses that abuse the spousal payments, right?
Like the child support.
Oh, yes.
And, but that's not the thing.
Like, like, yeah, you're sovereign, you're sovereign citizen, but your sovereign asshole
is what you are if you're not going to pay for your child.
Like, that's not even like, sure, probably government money.
But my God, like, that's like base humanity, right?
Like if you were like a cave person and you banked another cave person and you had a child,
the cave baby, wouldn't you give the cave mama some extra berries for your cave baby?
You know what I mean?
Like, it's not even, it's not that hard of a concept.
Like, if you're going to create offspring, you're also responsible for them.
Maritime law or land labor law or whatever the fuck you're calling it.
Like, you know what I mean? Like states rights, whatever.
That has nothing states rights has nothing to do with not supporting your child.
It has everything to do with not supporting black people.
Right. So again, I'm going to tell you one more story here.
Bruce is angry.
I'm going to get angry.
Bruce is upset.
Claimed to be a superior court judge for the people's grand jury.
I'm a friend that other guy in LinkedIn, by the way, I'm going to harass him.
But go on, this guy claimed to be a judge.
He's a superior court judge for the people's grand jury.
And he is in prison.
He got sentenced to 38 years.
Thank God he was charged 20 years for racketeering and five to three years for a number of various
violations, including failure to pay taxes, criminal impersonation, retaliation against
the judge, attempt to influence a public servant extortion, extortion, and so on.
And threatening various law enforcement officers.
Yeah, I mean, like part of that is like, yeah, I can see that.
But part of it is, yeah, if you're going to fuck with these people, they're going to throw
all of those things at you.
Right.
Like, and then also like they'll add in like domestic terrorist and then your waterboarding
at Gitmo again.
So.
Oh, well, this is where he got this is where he went wrong.
OK, is that he basically failed to pay those other things.
Yeah, he failed to pay his taxes.
It's always the fucking tax thing.
And he was running a little group, you know, his superior court of not paying tax things,
right?
Yeah.
And he also had a people that were claiming to be marshals, continental United States
and marshals, all capitalized, who had made their own badges and put them on their necks
and were showing up to public officials and serving them summons from this fake judge.
What are their badges made out of?
The scrotums of their enemies?
I don't know.
And then so all this was going down.
Can we can we like take one second here and say, yes, Mike and myself are not accountants.
We're not tax professionals.
Please pay your taxes.
Please.
We're not like like you figure it out.
Like, don't talk to us.
Yes, people are dumb and don't listen to them.
Please.
So the Southern Poverty Law Center calls the sovereign citizens or the state assemblies
paper terrorists.
And this is where it comes in, is that these guys who are continental United States marshals,
who have fake badges, they're filing liens against property owned by state workers,
basically public workers in order to harass them, to try to stop them from trying to collect taxes
and shit.
So like, can we like on one hand, right?
Yes.
I would love to have a group of people filing liens against.
I mean, let's just say Mitch McConnell or public.
Let's have air quotes to public servants.
I would love that filing against like your rando state employees.
Like they're no different than any other employee.
Like they're no different than the waitress at the bar that you go and drink at and don't tip.
You know what I mean?
Like a state employee doesn't mean they dictate the state law just because somebody comes to you
and says, Hey, I have to collect your taxes because my boss said I have to, and their boss,
boss's boss said I have to like, that's not, that's not your enemy.
You know what I mean?
Like they're not your enemy.
So file the lien against like the state representative, the governor,
like somebody in public office, don't file the lien against just a rando state worker.
Right.
Well, and that's where it all goes back because these are like the followers of this fake judge,
Anna von Reitz, so yeah, you can call her Anna von Third Reich.
She is okay with that.
She has to be paying her taxes, right?
If she's driving around, she's not putting a fake license plate out in public.
She's paying taxes or something.
She has to be paying taxes because she lives somewhere and she has income.
If she wasn't, she'd be like this other guy do set.
Be like everybody else that listens to her, she'd be in jail.
She'd be in jail.
So anybody who follows this stuff and actually follows through with it,
they're going to jail.
They end up in jail.
They have to, they have to, you have to, they have to bring them into jail.
I mean, that's the whole, that's the whole point.
Yeah.
If you're driving around your car and this guy who gave me this card made the claim that
traffic laws are unconstitutional and you don't have to follow them.
I mean, I don't disagree with you.
You're unconstitutional, but you honest to God have to follow them.
I know for a fact that he's following the rules because he's got a fucking vehicle
that has a legitimate license plate with a current tab on it.
And if you run a red light or a stoplight and a cop sees you,
they're pulling you over and are going to arrest you.
Well, of course.
I mean, right?
The constitutionality of that law does not matter.
It's the de facto.
It's not the juror.
It's the de facto.
Like if you want to take your traffic ticket and try and get the Supreme Court to take it up,
like good luck for you is probably unconstitutional.
Like I get it.
It's probably unconstitutional.
It is not unconstitutional.
These guys don't acknowledge.
Nobody's going to hurt you that it isn't.
They don't acknowledge the amendments to the constitution.
So they don't take the ninth amendment and 10th amendment into account,
which is that the states have rights to make laws.
Right.
Oh, I have a good question.
Yeah.
If they don't take into account the amendments,
what's their feeling on the 19th amendment?
I don't know.
I'm going to guess that much like the 16th amendment,
which is the amendment that created a national income tax,
they would say that it's nonsense.
OK, so Anna von Third Reich is going to say she doesn't have the right to vote.
Oh, it's because that was it's not in the Ten Commandments.
Women got the right to vote.
It's not that they don't vote on who is in the state assembly.
OK, not voting.
They don't vote on who's in the state assemblies.
They don't vote on who these judges are, fake judges.
Right.
It's very bizarre.
But that's very bizarre.
They would not want to include women in their demographic.
I don't think that the women's voting issue is mostly their tax dodgers.
And that's what it's all about.
I mean, I get that.
But like, oh, they sit there and say, we don't believe in any amendments.
And you're like, well, see, you don't think women should vote.
And they'd be like, yeah, I don't think women should vote.
But you're a woman.
Yeah, I shouldn't vote.
I don't think that they I mean, I don't think voting is in there
in the zeitgeist of what they're concerned about.
They mostly just don't want to pay taxes and have to pay licensing fees.
Yeah.
And that's fair.
But they're going about it like an awfully dumb way.
Oh, for sure.
You know, and they're OK.
It's all an excuse just because these are like lowdown losers that have lost at life.
And instead of dragging themselves out of the ditch that they're in.
Well, they're they want some alimony.
Right.
They're just losers who are angry at the government
who don't want to have to pay taxes or fines and fees.
Yeah.
And Anna von Third Reich apparently sounds like she has enough followers
to charge only one dollar for her special stamp.
Right.
So, you know, she started a global bank to even though classic,
it doesn't deal with any legitimate currency.
So she tried to like start her own currency that you have to give her real money for.
That's how they all start.
That's how they start.
Yeah, it's bizarre.
It's again, convert your U.S. dollars to Anna von Third Reich bucks.
That's right.
That's right. How can you be a state assembly and not have anybody vote for you?
They're just self appointing.
There's so few of these people that if you're active in the quote unquote movement,
of course, you're going to have a government position because there's not very many of them.
Would that look good on my resume?
Asking for a friend, asking for.
I don't know.
They these people seem to think it looks really good because they capitalize it.
You know, if it's capitalized, then it's important.
Well, and presumably they put it on their LinkedIn.
So I understand how you can be anti everything and then put like,
I'm the lord of bullshit on their LinkedIn.
Her co-author had a LinkedIn as well.
We shouldn't surprise you, but it was pretty bare bones.
It wasn't as good as the Birdman, the delinquent child support guy was.
He's awesome.
Like, I'd hire him in a heartbeat.
Well, and like I say, I'm going to take I'm going to take full taxes out of his payroll,
but I would hire him.
I'm sure you've seen the Internet videos,
the YouTube videos of cops beating the shit out of these guys
because they don't have driver's licenses.
I'm guessing that they lost their driver's license for some violation
and they couldn't get it back.
So there's not related.
Had to make an excuse.
Sure. Not related to not paying your child support.
I'm sure it was related to states rights.
Yeah, it's a state rights issue.
And like it is an extension of that states rights argument at its most extreme.
Which is weird because like Alaska is not the south.
I don't think unless my.
No, but there's a lot of rural yahoos, you know, a lot of real world yahoos.
You know, Alaska's bill is the last frontier,
but that doesn't mean the last frontier of racism.
Yeah, it's interesting.
Weird because like I don't want to sound bad,
but I'm going to for just for this episode for educational purposes.
How many black people live in Alaska?
I'm sure that we could find that out.
Let's find that out.
Some I want to know.
I want to know.
You look it up.
I'll look it up.
Like, I don't know, like so I'm from a small Midwestern town
and never saw much, never saw many diverse populations
out and about in the woods deer hunting.
Right.
So apparently Alaska, according to 2020 census, has 23,000 black people,
which is 10,000 more than South Dakota and quite a bit more than Idaho.
But I don't know.
Okay, so white is 66.7% in Alaska.
The black population is 3.6.
Asian is 5.4 and everything else is less than that.
So Alaska is not what you would call the hotbed of diversity.
No, no, it is not.
Yes.
So yeah, they have their own flag, by the way.
Alaska or these people?
These people, they have their own flag
and they say that it's the real United States flag.
Show me, show me, show me.
Is it as good as the LGBTQ++ plus 1737 flags?
So interesting story about the flag.
Okay.
I want to see it.
I'm going to tell you what it's called.
You can look it up.
No, drop it.
American peacetime flag.
Look it up.
Fine.
So the story behind these people claim that this flag is the flag of peace in America
and that old glory is the wartime flag.
They ignored the flag code.
The real story is that this flag was used on revenue cutter service ships,
which was the precursor to the Coast Guard.
And they used it because it would distinguish custom ships from military ships
and they would collect taxes off of the ships on these custom ships.
Right.
And the flag is reused as a Coast Guard flag,
but the Coast Guard added some insignias on top.
Right.
And this is like the perfect example of what I mean by they take like a half truth
and they spin it with some gobbledygook on top
because it was a used flag by like the IRS or whatever of early America.
Yeah.
But it's certainly not the real American flag or the peacetime flag or whatever.
It's not a bad looking flag, to be honest.
It's very, if you're one of those people that gets upset
when a black quarterback kneels during the national anthem,
you're going to hate this flag.
But if you're just like a normal dude, you're like,
hey, that's an interesting take on the American flag.
I think it's kind of neat.
It's different.
It's not like the pride flags where it's all like a variation on a theme ad nauseam.
Right.
This is very interesting.
The original one had 16 stripes because there were 16 states at the time of its use.
And it was just a variation on the American flag so that foreign vessels would know like,
oh, these are the guys that are going to inspect our ship
to make sure that we have all that stuff on board and our tax money and stuff.
Right.
They're not like a military vessel.
So it was like a pro tax money flag.
And now they're taking it to mean an anti tax money flag or something.
That's correct.
And then they use so they're legitimate.
They think that they can opt out.
They say that income tax is optional.
And they use like the pre 16th Amendment income tax rules, which they used to do
temporary income taxes to pay for wars.
But they there's a number of acts that in the past that all started and ended these war taxes.
And they ended the war tax in 1946.
But they're not taking into account that the 16th Amendment established the federal income tax
because they don't accept the amendments to the Constitution as legitimate.
So how do they feel with the Bill of Rights then?
I don't think that they accept the Bill of Rights.
How can you accept the Bill of Rights?
They have.
How can you accept?
Well, how can you accept the Bill of Rights if you don't accept
all the other amendments just because, you know, you don't want to.
Well, I mean, like, you know, prohibition and alcohol was stupid,
but it happened and then that unhappened.
You know what I mean? You would think you'd have to have some
not that any of us nowadays do, but you would think on some level,
you'd have to have a little bit of faith in the process.
Like as difficult as it is, like it's crazy difficult to amend the Constitution.
You know, like, I don't understand.
Like, you don't you don't want the freedom of speech.
You don't want the right to bear arms.
You don't want the right for women to vote.
You don't want.
Listen, Nate, for 20 bucks, you can send this chick 20 bucks
and she'll send you a fake paper license plate for your car and a fake ID
so you can drive around as a sovereign national.
As long as you also spent the money to get your paperwork sent to some random
bookkeeping office at some random government agency in your state.
Yeah, I'm just saying for 20 bucks, I should at least be getting feet pics.
And that's in like full on like snatch.
But, you know, like 20 bucks, like, yeah, show me a foot.
Like, I'm not even in defeat, but for 20 bucks, like, I should be getting something right.
I've started some bullshit papers.
I can send 20 bucks to anybody and they'll send me some bullshit paper.
I can make bullshit papers from AI now.
Like, I don't need on a third Reich.
These websites, by the way, I went to a number of them.
I'm not sure if it's good that I went to them, you know, as far as like my social credit score.
But they're all like Internet one point no websites like it brought me right back to 1995.
Hasn't been established here yet, you know, so you should be OK.
It's coming next year.
Yes.
With so I'm at lockdowns.
Oh, my God.
Do you have any more questions that I can try to answer?
I mean, I like I say it's such nonsense, psycho babble.
And I tried to make a fair assessment and give you quotes so you can hear
what they're saying.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I think like, you know, these people are fucking stupid.
I would say that they have less than average intelligence if they truly believe this stuff.
I would also tell you, I feel like there are legitimate not these people, not these people,
but I feel like there are legitimate sovereign citizens out there.
But usually these sovereign citizens are praying on the goodwill of wherever the fuck they are.
And if shit ever hit the fan, they would be out of luck because the government would be like,
you're a sovereign citizen.
You're your own country.
Like, fuck off.
You know what I mean?
Like, I feel like there's there's there's people that are actually like legitimate sovereign
citizens.
They've actually done real things to become a sovereign citizen.
But that means you don't have any benefit of anything anywhere.
And you truly solely on your own.
You don't have like these fucking fake like there's no FEMA, right?
A hurricane comes through and wrecks your house and and everybody's like, well, you're a sovereign
citizen.
Like, go fuck off.
Like, you're not you're not getting anything, you know.
I don't know what the percentage is.
I feel like it's very small, but I feel like there are some like there's some legitimate
ways to become one for sure.
But you're kind of saying no to everything, like no to everything.
And we don't have much in this country despite being rah rah number one, as we proved on our
episode is America number one rah rah rah rah America.
You know, even less than what we currently have as Americans.
Like, if you want that, like, fuck, fine, go for it.
But you're not getting like anything.
You know what I mean?
Yep.
So they have a frequently asked questions.
They're doing OK.
They have a fake you.
Yes.
The number one is, will the IRS or the IRS and income taxes?
Will the IRS come after me?
Yes.
And she says the IRS, like all government contractors, operates through paperwork and
use the sphere to control people.
They don't just show up at your door overnight or freeze your accounts.
They use letters, blah, blah, blah.
The IRS scam was figured out decades ago and it's possible to navigate out safely.
The horror stories are here about our propagandize to reinforce the fear torture one terrorize
a 10,000.
I promise you it is legit.
They will come fuck you up.
Yep.
The people that have had problems are people who have not properly corrected their stats.
If you participate in their jurisdiction, the maritime jurisdiction, they still own
you must work with your assembly to make sure you have the correct paperwork and that is
filled out properly recorded and published.
The more deeply you study the fraud and truth about the government, the truth about taxes
and the truth about the IRS, the more confident you will become about your rights and freedoms
as Americans.
So you can spout that when you're getting water boarded.
I get.
Oh, yeah, it's all bullshit.
And then they're like, what about my retirement?
Well, good news.
You're still entitled to that.
What about Medicare?
You're still entitled to that somehow.
Social Security, you're still it's like, oh, you can have everything.
You just don't have to pay taxes anymore.
That's like they're perfect.
They're selling pitch.
It's like, what?
You know what?
If you want every if you want all the benefits of all this shit, become a member of Congress.
Then you get all that shit.
You don't have to pay for it.
You get paid extra to not pay into it.
That's the only legal way to get out of taxes.
Become a member of Congress or the railroad.
Or work for the railroad.
You don't have to pay your social security.
Or become FC and level and then you don't pay anything.
And if you become super rich.
But yeah, who believes that shit?
I mean, do I would I like to believe it?
That'd be awesome.
Of course.
But no, it's dumb.
Is income tax legal?
I don't know.
It'd take one hell of a fight to fucking prove it isn't.
Even if you think it isn't.
Even if you could prove to yourself it isn't like you still have the reality of fucking life.
Right.
Just because I don't think a driver's license is constitutionally allowable.
Doesn't mean I'm going to take up the case to go challenge it at the Supreme Court.
You know how much money that would take?
And how much time and effort and energy like for a driver's license?
Like I don't think you should be able to tell me I can't drive a car because I didn't, you know,
whatever this and that like, no, like.
That's the thing, Nate.
It's not deeply embedded.
It's not the federal government saying that you can't.
It's the state government and the state government.
It's the state government does have the right to regulate that.
It's not a protected constitutional right federally.
Therefore, the government, state government can regulate it.
Plus, yeah, and you're traveling on the interstate system.
They're traveling on interstate systems.
So that adds in the whole interstate commerce clause potentially.
But the whole point is the state requires it.
So I need it.
Every state requires it.
So I need it.
The driver's license is like the only interstate document that is accepted in all 50 states.
Real ID.
That's like the new one.
Now that has enhanced and real ID has not happened in 20 years.
It's been pushed off for like 20 years.
What?
But I just read an article saying it was coming into effect here soon.
Man, they've been talking about that since I graduated high school.
If you do it, I know I have an enhanced ID.
It doesn't would it doesn't take any.
I mean, it takes like gathering some paperwork when you get your driver's license for God's
sakes.
You know what I mean?
I won't do it.
I won't do it till it's absolutely mandated by law.
I think in Minnesota, you're not going to be able to go into a state building.
I never go in like two or three years.
Buildings.
They suck.
Like they're not even architecturally significant.
Like why would I go there?
Yes.
That's what that's you know, you should become a sovereign citizen.
Maybe I already am.
Maybe I'm already in league with Anna von Third Reich.
I guess it'd be fourth right by now, right?
Like, you know.
Oh, yeah.
They have like a special way you're supposed to put your address down
so that you are legally, you know, they have a sovereign citizen way to do it.
Yep.
Get to have a CEO in front of the street address and square brackets around the zip code.
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
Yeah.
And oh, like, yeah, person that delivers shit.
Whenever you need to put your mailing address on an envelope or document,
always use care of CEO in front of the street address line.
And some people use square brackets around their zip code.
If you do not at least do the CEO trick,
you are essentially entering an adhesion contract with the de facto government
as if putting CEO on your fucking letter is going to somehow prevent you.
Or it's nonsense.
Like, who thinks that is effective?
The problem is you're saying that this makes you enter a contract with the de facto government,
which is not the de jure government.
So de facto is the government of fact, of reality,
regardless of if they have a legal right to it or not.
So basically, you're saying the government that has the right to do this by fact,
by law, by legal, not by law, but like by force, by fact, why would they care then?
They're already the de facto government.
Like they wouldn't care about whatever the fuck you're trying to do.
Like, am I am I taking crazy pills or it?
None of it makes sense to me.
It is bizarre.
Oh, come on, fucker.
I'm trying to look up a notice for 2023.
Oh, look at that.
She's got all these notices from March.
Of course.
Oh, yeah.
These people really are upset about the civil war.
Like they really don't like that.
It's like 20 years ago.
Yeah.
160 years, blah, blah, blah.
By the way, this Anna Von Reitz is the one in 15.
She made Internet headlines because she put out a notice that Barack Obama and Congress were
had a federal court order to be put under arrest and like went viral on the Internet
because she calls herself judge.
Right.
So it's like, oh, an Alaskan judge issued an arrest warrant to the U.S.
Marshal Service. It's like, no, she did.
This lady put out a fake arrest warrant to her United States Marshals that have fake badges.
They go to the rest of Barack Obama made out of Inuit scrotums.
They're also like big covid conspiracy theorists, which of course they would be.
Yeah.
Yeah. But it might also not be false.
I mean, I'm not I mean, I would lean it. I wouldn't consider it a conspiracy theory
if you're using evidence that has been generated since 2020.
Right. Like evidence that has since come out or evidence that has since come out.
Yeah.
I feel like you can't say I don't like any amendments to the Constitution
and the Bill of Rights is bullshit and I shouldn't be paying income tax,
which like is a fine.
It's a fair like I shouldn't be paying income tax is like a fair thing
because we have sales tax and we have all these other taxes.
Like every dollar you have is taxed like five times, you know, or whatever.
And it's like that's too that's too many times.
That's like four times too many.
But you can't say income tax is bad and then also say all amendments are bad and black people suck.
And you know what I mean?
Like you can't just you have to like just be sane in like one thing and then fight for that thing.
And we talked about this on the on the on the LGBTQ flags like the pride flags,
like they don't have a common cause anymore.
So you've got 57 different flags, you know, and 21 of those are important to know.
And the other 30 some are not.
But you can't just say maritime law, land law, amendments are bad.
Civil War should have gone differently.
But we're not racist, but we hate black people.
But we're also not racist, but Jews are bad and we're not racist.
But anybody who's not white is bad and don't pay income tax unless you're black
because black people should pay income tax.
But we shouldn't because we're white.
But we're not racist.
And the government is bad.
OK, and like we all understand the government is bad.
None of us like the government.
It's all it's all bad.
Choo-choo like it's bad stuff.
But you can't go on with all this other stuff and expect people to take you seriously
because that's some bullshit.
Like if you want to send me money and I'll give them a fake document to put on their car
so they can get pulled over faster and arrested faster, like I'm happy to do it.
But I'm not going to tell them it's going to get them out of stuff.
I'm being like, hey, yeah, you want to send me five bucks to get arrested faster.
I'll send you a document right now.
You get arrested tomorrow.
I guarantee it.
What I think is so funny, like I understand that there's people who really believe this stuff.
But yeah, and that's sad.
It's sad because to me, it's so clear that the only reason why they're in this position
is, for example, they can't get a real license plate on their car for some reason.
They can't get a real driver's license.
It could be drunk driving.
It could be not paying child support.
It could be yeah, it could be a number of things.
It could be math for sure.
It's not because they're winning at life.
They can't get one is our bad reasons.
Right.
Like the child support guy is a lawyer in this constitutional
or the state assembly system here.
You're right.
Like, yeah, we're using this graduated from the school of hard knocks very loosely.
Yeah, the guy who did eighty four thousands in child support is a lot of years not paying
child support.
That's a lot of money.
That's potentially all of the child support.
You have.
I mean, that could be like maybe one year if you have 80 kids.
It's a lot.
That's it's years.
It's too much years of not paying.
It's more than like, oh, OK, you forgot for a year and now you're bitter about it.
This is like I forgot forever about this.
You know what I mean?
That's like I don't have a job.
And yeah, it's beyond reasonable doubt is what it is.
Most I don't know these.
I don't I don't own any child support, but I assume that like if you have a court order
to pay child support, your employer would have to be legally informed of that and they
would automatically deduct it.
Right.
You would think you would think that.
You would think you would think.
I mean, I don't know.
Like every state is a little bit different on some of those things, you know, like Texas
does not accept debt outside of its borders.
So if you incur debt outside of Texas and even if you have a legal judgment against
you in a different state, if you move to Texas, Texas does not give you fucks.
They're like this debt did not incur in within Texas borders.
Therefore, it's not legitimate in our government's eyes.
But 49 or 48 of the other states or 47, whatever it is, they all will accept debt from an
outside state.
So I don't know what Alaska is.
And I don't know if this guy moved or didn't move, but I'm saying there are some weird
loopholes sometimes, but probably not eighty four thousand dollars worth of loopholes.
You know what I mean?
Right.
It's again.
And we're not lawyers of this.
No, we're not lawyers.
We don't know.
So we don't know.
Have I do you feel like I explained?
Yes.
Yeah, I'm not a state assembly member.
I don't understand how they can be part of a state assembly if there was never a goddamn
election anyway.
It's the amendments, man.
It's the amendments.
Yeah.
How can you have an assembly that's representative of the citizens and you didn't have an election?
Maybe they only get elected amongst like the people who have paid the 25 bucks or whatever
it costs to do this paperwork.
Yeah, if you bought five stamps from Anna von Forthreich, then you get assembly that is.
Global posted stamps.
The global entity.
No, they have to write on them with red ink.
Like I say, it's all this nonsense.
And Hitler is still alive in Argentina or something.
Have I explained this well enough for you to know now about the sovereign citizen movement?
Are you still mystified?
I look so.
Well, yes and yes.
I think you explained it well, but I'm also still mystified because it doesn't even like
it defines logic.
The biggest thing for me was that when I started bringing this up and I started talking to
Sarah about it, she was like, well, that lady's got to be scamming these people out of money.
Instantly, it went there in her head.
She knew, right?
Of course, yeah.
And then I found all these revenue sources to this woman because there's like 100 and
some videos each costing two to $25 to watch.
And then all this paperwork get to file and send into like a random IRS office somewhere.
And all this shit, these global stamps you have to have and this crap, right?
Yeah, for sure.
And it's like, well, she has to be paying tax on that.
Otherwise, she would go to jail.
So immediately these people should have their tinglers like boom, I'm paying this lady money.
I'm buying books off of Amazon with her name on it.
Somebody's paying tax on there's there's another option, Mike.
What is that?
Are you ready?
Are you ready for this?
Is maybe she's not paying taxes on any of it, but but she has a sealed court deal to keep doing
what she's doing as long as she turns over the names of those people who buy her books.
That is a real possibility, you know, because they are maybe she's turned informant.
She's a rat.
It could be they're classified as like a domestic terrorist group from what I understand,
which I think is a little extreme.
Yeah, probably a little extreme, but you know.
Yeah.
Individual members of this group have gotten into gunfights with police.
Obviously, totally.
Well, it's been on the news, right?
What's not on the news is when these like they really should
have an expose on these guys that are going to jail for tax evasion.
Right?
Like, yeah, that's the biggest thing.
Like, no, you have to pay taxes.
No, you need to drive with a license plate and a driver's license.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, and like, do I constitutionally with the with the understanding of the founding fathers
and the you know, all the articles and everything like and I'm no expert.
I'm no expert.
I haven't read the oh, man, I'm blanking.
But when they wrote under like pen names.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Federalist Papers.
Yeah, Federalist Papers.
So they weren't necessarily like everybody should be pay taxes to the federal government,
but they weren't necessarily opposed to like taxes to the state because like the state
governments are supposed to be higher in power than the federal government and all that stuff.
So like, I understand like the general like feeling of the federal government shouldn't be
able to withhold like highway funds because you don't have the right legal drinking age
or something.
You know what I mean?
And there's instances of that happening where the federal government says, oh, your legal
drinking age is 18.
We want to be 21.
So we're not going to give you the funds for this or that or the other thing.
And then every state is like, yeah, you know, I told you when sounds fine to us.
Give us the money, whatever.
Like, so I don't think there's anybody that will sit here and tell you that it's a perfect
system.
I don't think there's anyone that would sit here and tell you that, you know, income tax
for us should be a thing.
Well, it isn't for Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk and Bill Gates.
But I don't think that anybody here would tell you that, you know, not paying income
tax is a wise choice and that you won't go to jail for it just because you think that
it isn't constitutional.
You know, I mean, that's I mean, I guess that's kind of the point is like they're saying that
the de facto government, which means the government of fact, regardless of legality of fact,
de facto of fact, they're the government, whether they're in the right or wrong does
not matter anymore.
They're the government.
In fact, if the government, in fact, if the de facto government wants taxes, you pay the
fucking government who wants taxes or you go to jail.
And that's the wording that they use the de facto government.
So they want they want they want taxes.
You don't think it's legit.
Well, then you fucking pay taxes and you try and fight it in court.
Like you don't you know, like you can't just say I don't pay taxes because you're the de facto
government, not the de jure government.
Well, they're the de facto.
They're going to get they're going to fuck you up.
And they have and they will.
Well, they have and they will.
And they'll continue to do so.
So it's almost like the the Manson episode we did where like he was like part of the
thing, you know, and like maybe the perfect fall guy.
But like they were still doing shit.
And we have maybe there's proof up there that it was like a covert op or like whatever the
fuck. But it doesn't matter because you can't really go up against it.
Like what are you going to do?
You're going to say I'm going to file a suit on behalf of the Manson clan that they were
manipulated by the de facto government, who is also you.
And you were going to like, no, it's not going to happen.
Like, sorry.
You know what I mean?
Oh, yeah.
So like I so like I understand like that portion of it.
But the wording they use is very bizarre because they're like, yeah, the de facto government
won't let us do this.
And they're thinking that it means that the government doesn't have any legal rights to do
so, but de facto is better than de jure all day long, like all day long.
Like if you're the government of fact of real life circumstances, it doesn't matter what
the law is.
You know what I mean?
So like the wording is a disconnect, I guess, for me from them.
But again, it's all if somebody is poorly educated, I'm sure that the ten dollar words
that are splattered in there and the complexity and the circles that she's using in logic
make sense, I'm sure.
Oh, yeah.
But to somebody who learned how to read and write, it doesn't make any sense.
Right.
And a lot of de facto privilege.
Well, a lot of people that just because you graduated high school does not mean that you
know how to read and write.
Go and read a college textbook, you know, read a legal document.
If you cannot go through and read a court document, then you really don't know how to
read.
Right.
You can read like the newspaper potentially, but you're not your level of reading comprehension
is not high enough to be able to analyze things.
And my reading comprehension level is not enough to like analyze things and make recommendations
to other people.
You know, it's enough for me to like survive in society more or less.
You know, I can read technical specifications.
And it's enough to know when you're being fleeced.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Like, I feel like our reading comprehension is fairly similar.
And we like we enjoy reading, like we read like this, what we do or, you know, listen
to audiobooks or whatever.
But like, it's all the same thing.
Like you're taking in words that are more so than the words that newspapers use or the
like the the trending.
Like, here's the breaking news, like fucking Kanye West or whatever the fuck calls themselves
up now is like anti-Jewish.
But they can't even use like anti-Semitic anymore because nobody knows what that means.
Like they have to say like he hates Jews.
Right.
Well, that's like the other word means.
I remember the political analysis in 16 about the Trumpster fire and they did a vocal analysis
or an analysis of all the words he was using in his speeches.
And they said that his speeches are done at like a fourth grade level so that everybody
can understand what he's saying.
Right.
And that was one of his political strengths.
Yeah, it was one of his political strengths.
Like, yeah, if from a certain perspective, you could try to denigrate that.
But it was really a good move because every person in a way it is.
Yeah.
In a way, it's like extremely it was extremely successful, obviously.
Yeah.
In my life.
That doesn't mean that it's not evil and manipulative, but it just means it's smart.
Right.
I don't know of any other politician in America in my lifetime that has the sort of like blind
allegiance that he has.
And there's good reason for that.
Good, not necessarily good, like morally good, but good, like rational, rational reasons.
Yeah, reasons you can actually like back up with stats or something.
Right.
Like Obama had that for a minute, but nothing like the Trump.
I mean, there are I drive past a Trump shrine all the time.
And it's like, yeah, people are really committed.
And it's because of factors like he's he does his speeches at a fourth grade reading level.
No matter how dumb you are as an adult, you can understand what he is saying.
And it's all emotional.
Oh, yeah, no fact.
Very few facts.
And even if he did speak in facts, his political enemies would bury it, which is unfair.
But, you know, that's why so many people said, oh, he talks like me.
Like, yeah, he does because you're a dumbass.
That's not a good thing.
That's that says something about you.
Yeah.
More about you than it does about him.
Mm hmm.
So well, I am done with my cigar.
There we go.
I am ready to fill out my sovereign citizenship application form.
Hell, yeah.
I've got I've got my one buckaroonie to send to honor the Fourth Reich.
And then I should be set.
I'm going to have my own island in the Caribbean and people of any age can come there and fuck.
Just kidding.
That was Epstein Islands and that's everybody else in government.
Oh, my God.
And that is yeah, that will never end.
They know because they're never going to tell us that it was them.
But we all know it was them.
But as long as they don't say it was them, there's still some like plausible deniability.
Just like Anna, whatever the fuck is like, oh, yeah, you don't have to pay income tax,
even though I do.
And I'm an informant for the IRS.
And you're all fucked by associating with me.
But you're totally not.
The government doesn't have any say.
And I can't vote because I don't believe in the 19th Amendment.
Right.
You know what?
I didn't think about the is she an informant angle?
OK.
It's possible.
Because she did an interview with Southern Poverty Law Center.
Like, she's the public face of a lot of this stuff.
Yeah.
And she's not in any sort of legal trouble ever.
No.
So like I say, clearly, she's doing everything she ought to be doing.
Yeah.
If you're doing everything she has to be doing or she has some special arrangement that nobody
else can get.
Right.
Which is the same difference.
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
And then you can talk to some psychobabble about the British Crown Corporation.
British Crown Corporation running the Maritime Court Systems and the United States Corporation,
blah, blah, blah.
Which also is not true.
But it's meaningless garbage.
Come on.
Yeah.
It's like I said before, if you go to King's Cross Station, there's a platform 9 and 3 quarters.
Does that mean that Harry Potter is real?
Right.
Or did they put the sign up after the book was famous?
You know what I mean?
No.
It was always there, man.
It was always there.
It was there because of states' rights.
Yes, exactly.
So anyway, guys, I hope you enjoyed the episode and are now informed.
And if you were leaning towards the state assembly persuasion, hopefully I.
Please don't.
Have exposed enough of their ludicrous, like what would it be, like insanity?
Like it's just insane.
It's hilarious to me.
It's silliness to the utmost degree.
But I do want to do some final thoughts on this cigar.
What are your thoughts on this one, Mike?
Well, I'm still smoking it.
I have about two inches left, which is no surprise.
But it's good.
It's starting to turn a little sour at the end.
But the body of it was good.
I think for the H up in cigars, the Cameroon is where it's at.
This one was good, but not as good as the Cameroon.
I don't know if it was worse.
It was darker.
And now at the end, it's getting sour.
It turned sour and the Cameroon did not turn sour like that one.
I burned my fingers on.
And that is one.
Yes.
So I think they're both good sticks, right?
They're not.
Neither of them are bad.
But I think the Cameroon has the edge for me.
I would say by the facts, the Cameroon has to have the edge because it did not get sour
at the end.
And this one is good.
Because it did not get sour at the end, and this one is.
Yeah.
I did enjoy the cigar more at the front.
OK, yeah, that's fair.
Yeah, I did.
Because it's darker.
And I like that darkness.
You know, I like darkness too.
But I feel like the overall experience of the Cameroon was just better, slightly.
Like not drastically.
But if I went in and I had the choice between this one and the Cameroon,
I'd pick the Cameroon, I think.
Yes.
I would have to agree.
Yeah, they're both good sticks.
They're both good sticks.
It's not, you know, nothing against this one.
Just if you're going right down, in my opinion, if you're going right down, both of them,
I'd go Cameroon over this one.
But both are a good choice.
Right.
So OK, well, hopefully, like I say, hopefully everybody is now
aware of the potential scam that is the Sovereign Citizen Movement.
I did want to ask one more question.
And this might be the deal breaker for the Sovereign Citizen Movement.
What is their stance on circumcision?
Well, since the law of the land is based on the Ten Commandments, I'm going to guess that
the law of the land is pro-circumcision.
Well, fuck them then.
Anyway, thanks for listening.
Be safe, have fun.
I'll be right back.