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Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Mike.

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And I'm Nate.

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What are we smoking tonight, Mike?

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We are smoking and I'm excited for this one.

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Me as well.

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I'm a little surprised.

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Let me before you say what we're smoking, I'm a little surprised we're not doing the

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other saison.

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Oh, we could have.

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I didn't think about it.

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Hey, that's okay.

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It's our you know what?

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It's our show.

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It is what we want.

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Okay.

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So what are we doing, Mike?

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Sorry to cut you off there.

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No, you got me thrown off.

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I was like, Oh, shoot, you're right.

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We're gonna smoke the H Upman vintage Cameroon.

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The HP Lovecraft vintage Cthulhu?

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Something like that.

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All right.

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I've never heard of this brand, to be honest with you.

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But it does say it says H Upman.

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And that's two ends at the end in case you're trying to Google it.

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And then it says 1844 and vintage Cameroon underneath it.

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And it came with a really nice, I mean, really nice, probably oh, two third cedar sleeve

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with gold ribbon on both ends and stamped in red vintage Cameroon.

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So very, very nice presentation on this stick.

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It is a nice presentation.

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And I have never really heard of it either.

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So okay.

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Okay.

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Well, we're trying this for you, the listener.

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Also before we're gonna we're gonna light up here, we're gonna light up.

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We've got a doozy of a topic, a doozy.

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And Mike, so we've got this we've got this program, program, program program, where we

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can record not in the same space as one another.

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And we get to pick our little username.

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So I usually go with my you know, like my gamertag or whatever.

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And Mike is usually just Mike.

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But now suddenly tonight he is Lord Mike of the Dell.

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I'm very interested in the in the little backstory as long as it's short because I could not

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handle a long backstory right now.

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But if it's a short backstory, very curious.

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Oh, usually it's Mike and you fill it in.

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But we had a little mishap with our emails.

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So as quickly as I could, I came up with the coolest name I could think of at the time.

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So it'll be different next time, I'm sure.

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Yes, next time it will probably be Mike, probably just be Mike.

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Yes.

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So first puffs.

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I mean, I took one puff, but I like it.

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And I know you can't really judge a stick on the on the first puff.

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But with the with the underground shade, you can.

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But this one, this one is quite nice.

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I'm excited for the rest of this one here.

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Right.

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I was excited, first of all, because I've never heard of this brand.

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And the presentation is quite nice.

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You know, the band is really attractive and the packaging is really nice.

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And typically, if you're going to put shit in a box, you don't you don't have to make

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the package that nice.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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I mean, like, look at the freaking Swisher sweets.

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Right.

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There's nothing.

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So apparently the H.O.T. men, they were brothers and they were pioneers in the cigar industry.

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Just on a quick Google search, we can look you know what?

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We can look up more later, but we don't have to right now because we've got a doozy.

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I don't know if I mentioned that, but it's a doozy of a topic tonight.

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Yes.

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It's not going to be Google the show at least the whole time.

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No, because I've got five pages of notes.

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Five pages.

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Wow.

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Which is probably less than any show Mike's ever researched.

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You know, when we do the Mike knows he's like, I've got 13 books here and I'll read to you

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them from them.

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And I've read them twice in the last week and and stuff.

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So but it did take me a couple of weeks to get all this stuff put together.

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And I had to be careful because it's not really a topic you really want in your like saved

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Google searches.

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I mean, Mike knows what the topic is, but you guys don't yet.

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So I felt the same way about my show.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Your show, the next show, the next episode is going to be fun.

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I'm excited.

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I'm really excited.

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And I'm also excited that we're doing this episode first because I have a couple of jokes

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already pre worked out.

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You know, you got to plan these things.

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So, oh, absolutely.

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Yes.

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Spontaneity is the enemy of comedy.

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Yeah.

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I mean, pre planning is pre planning.

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And you know, what is it?

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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part or something.

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So yep, we're not going to have any humor emergencies on the podcast.

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We might have other emergencies for sure, but not humor.

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Definitely.

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My dog is very angry at something in my garden.

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I don't know what this is.

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Nothing there, but she thinks there is.

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Well, then I'm angry at your garden too, Mike.

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I'm angry at your garden too.

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So what are you pairing your cigar with tonight, by the way?

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Oh, yes.

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I did want to talk about that because I went out.

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So today is the Sunday before Labor Day when we're recording this episode.

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So this is one of those episodes where there's only like a couple of days delay from when

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we record it to when you hear it.

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Yes.

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And it is fucking hot.

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Oh, man.

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It's so hot.

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I had to open my garage early today and turn on all the fans and get some air in here because

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I really didn't want to sit outside because of the mosquitoes and all that stuff.

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So it's a decent temperature.

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I'm not wearing much in way of things, but I went out today.

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We did some shopping or I did some shopping because nothing's going to be open tomorrow.

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Even if they are, I really don't want to support them.

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When I picked up a little four pack, I figured to this episode to next episode.

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So when you ask me next episode, when I'm pairing this with it, it'll probably be the

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same thing unless this episode goes really sideways and I get lit up.

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But I'm pairing it with a prize Miraculum, which is P-R-Y-E-S.

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It's a Midwest IPA and it is a local Minnesota Minneapolis beer from down here.

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Nice.

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What are you pairing yours with?

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I also picked it up today, Summit Twins Pilsner.

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And then I made myself a vodka sunrise.

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Oh, nice.

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Yes, because we had orange juice left over and I wanted to get rid of it.

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And I also want to get rid of my old grenadine.

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So perfect.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Probably not the best thing to have with a cigar.

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It's not the worst thing either, though.

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It is a nice thing to have when it's 97 fucking degrees outside.

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Very, very true.

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And you know what?

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On this show, we really don't judge.

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I mean, we judge other people, but not never our guests and never each other.

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We try not to blast anybody by name.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So the topic, do you want to know, do you want me to tell everybody what the topic is

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tonight, today, this episode?

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Well, we did dangle it and we haven't yet disclosed.

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We did dangle it.

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Yeah, we did not disclose it.

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So speaking of dangling, this is just the tip.

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Is it a clip or a snip?

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So we're talking about circumcision, but male circumcision.

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We'll bring in the female circumcision a little bit later on, but I'm not going to bring it

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up right now because we're talking about the male circumcision.

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You know, we're both men and we're both either are or are not circumcised.

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So it's a 50-50 option, I suppose.

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Yeah.

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I mean, there's not really a third option.

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So I did a bunch of research and I came up and I came across a really fascinating book,

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very fascinating.

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And I feel like if the timelines would have aligned, this person would have been an excellent

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guest on our podcast.

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But alas, he's long since dead.

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But I kind of tried to put it together in some semblance of maybe like something that

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might make sense of a way to try and talk about this topic because I feel like, and

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you can correct me if I'm wrong or you can tell me what your feelings are, Mike.

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I never really knew anything about it really, right?

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Like probably till, I mean, I don't know.

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Like trying to think back on my life, when did I realize circumcision was a thing?

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I'm just going to go out there because I feel like we can't really talk about this topic

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without me.

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I don't know.

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I feel like my research might not be as valid if I'm just not fully open and honest.

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So like being circumcised, I didn't know that that was maybe not how men are born probably

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until maybe college or something.

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I don't know.

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But I went to high school in the early 2000s, right?

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So like how would I, there was no internet really.

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And everything that you wanted to download took forever because the JPEGs loaded line

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by line, pixel line by pixel line.

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So I had no idea that there was even another way for that.

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So it was just like, I was raised as that this was normal.

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And I feel like a lot of people either raise that this is normal or it's not really talked

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about that much.

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So I wanted to try and put together this kind of research in a way that made sense for hopefully

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both parties.

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You know what I mean?

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Oh yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's because circumcision is one of those body mutilations that we as a society just

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kind of accept.

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Now look, potentially that's the whole end of my research is, is male circumcision genital

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mutilation or not?

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So let's try and reserve judgment until then.

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Okay.

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Well, I have an opinion on it already.

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I have an opinion on it as well.

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Okay.

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I also have an opinion on it.

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I would like to hear the science though.

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Like hopefully there's science to everything.

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We're going to go through everything.

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There's some science talk.

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We're going to go through all of it.

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I almost gave some, some major spoilers and it's like, come on.

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I'm talking to myself here.

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Like, come on, Nate, like you did all this research and finally you have five pages of

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notes.

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And I was like, usually Mike has the five or six, 10 pages of notes.

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And I'm like, Oh, what's going on here?

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I've never heard of this stuff.

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So, and I almost like glue that.

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I almost, I almost blew my wad early.

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Um, and I don't mean to, but whatever ends up happening with this episode, I promise

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you the listener will be satisfied or not.

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Uh, you know, the main point of the show is so that I can smoke and drink and bullshit

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with Nate.

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So I'm going to win either way.

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The same, the same.

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I'm I've already won.

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I've already won.

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I've won all day cause it's fucking Sunday and tomorrow is labor day.

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So no work tomorrow.

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I still need to pressure wash.

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You don't have to.

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Uh, anyway, I think before we get going, the important thing for all of our listeners to

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remember is Mike and I are not medical professionals.

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Anything we talk about in the show has nothing to do with medical advice.

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If you think you have a tumor or a rash or a lesion or whatever it is, go seek medical

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help.

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We don't, I can't, if you are debating on whether or not getting circumcised or circumcising

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your child, do not take this podcast as a scientific evidence.

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I will put, I will put all of the links to the sources that I cite in the episode description.

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If you want to do your own research, you can start where I started and you can go from

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there.

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I'm not telling you to circumcise or not to circumcise.

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I am not a religious figure despite being an ordained minister and I am not a doctor

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despite some, some cursory Googling, uh, more so than you have a tumor and you will die.

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I thought for sure you were going to mention being an Eagle Scout, dude.

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I thought for sure.

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Okay.

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So one, I do, I do look, dude, I do one circumcision over summer camp and now suddenly that's the

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merit badge I have.

249
00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:29,560
Yup.

250
00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:32,960
Like I thought you were going to be like, despite the fact that I have my medic merit

251
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,160
badge or, uh, despite the fact that I am certified in CPR.

252
00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:38,160
Okay.

253
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,240
So I do have my first day merit badge and my life saving merit badge.

254
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,040
Um, and no spoilers.

255
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,320
So circumcision is generally not a life saving operation.

256
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:54,280
So it, uh, for all the Scoutmaster jokes that you have, um, out on summer camp, like, Hey,

257
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,640
I learned how to suck dick from my, from my Scoutmaster or, you know, whatever, whatever

258
00:11:58,640 --> 00:11:59,640
it might be.

259
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,720
Um, circumcision really doesn't come up that much in Boy Scouts.

260
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,520
Um, and I can, and I can attest to that.

261
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:12,640
Well, I am a CPR certified and, uh, yeah, I am also not a medical professional.

262
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:13,640
Yes.

263
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,000
And neither are some medical professional professionals.

264
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:21,520
And generally, generally speaking, when erect, uh, most penises look very much the same,

265
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:27,360
I guess from what I've heard from, um, uh, scientific statistically important study.

266
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,840
From hours and hours of recent research on the internet that I, that I did.

267
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,160
Uh, so I figured we'd start with the origins of circumcision, right?

268
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,840
So Mike, when I talked to you about circumcision, which we don't ever do that because we also

269
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,000
don't talk about like operating systems, you know, when it's like, Hey, um, uh, would you

270
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,480
recommend Microsoft or Windows to a friend?

271
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:44,480
I don't think not.

272
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,400
I don't talk about operating systems with other people.

273
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,120
That's that's not something I talk about.

274
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:49,320
Uh, but we're really enough.

275
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,320
We do talk about operating systems, Nate, because we do the show.

276
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,520
Yeah, we do the show.

277
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,520
We talk about operating systems.

278
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,480
He's Mac, I'm Linux, uh, and also windows.

279
00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,480
And I just switched.

280
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,280
I just ditched Apple dude and I'm on, uh, Android and it's great.

281
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:03,280
Oh really?

282
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:04,280
Cool.

283
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:05,280
Yeah.

284
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:06,280
Well, we can talk about that later.

285
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,480
Um, if we end up with extra time at the end, which we might, I don't know.

286
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:09,800
I mean, we might breeze through this.

287
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,720
It might be a quick snip.

288
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:12,720
I mean a quick clip.

289
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,000
Uh, fuck, I don't know something, uh, snip, snip anyway.

290
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,800
Uh, but I figured we'd talk about the origins a little bit.

291
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:25,200
So when I say circumcision and I don't, this is not trying to like bait you into some kind

292
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:26,760
of big like racial debate.

293
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,760
But when I say circumcision, what does everybody think?

294
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:29,760
What do people think?

295
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,600
Like who circumcises the most?

296
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,200
The Egyptians, the ancient Egyptians.

297
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:35,200
That's who I'm thinking about.

298
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:36,200
Okay.

299
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,440
That's not who you should be thinking about in modern day, but I don't want to say the

300
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:41,440
word.

301
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,320
I don't want to say it.

302
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,920
This is a, this is a truthful and fair and open and honest podcast.

303
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,720
Usually Judaism is strongly associated with circumcision.

304
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:52,720
There you go.

305
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:58,560
And this is, um, none of this is done in a way to like criticize any of these religions

306
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:05,680
or civilizations or whatever, unless at the end we decide that it is genital mutilation,

307
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:07,120
but we have to wait till the end of the episode.

308
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,160
So none of all of this is like open and free and happy right now.

309
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:16,960
So the earliest, the earliest evidence of circumcision and you're right, Mike, ancient

310
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:17,960
Egyptian.

311
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:18,960
Okay.

312
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,400
It's around a 2,300 BC, which is what?

313
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,320
At least like 500 years ago, right?

314
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,480
Oh, at least 500 years ago.

315
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:33,880
So they've got like Egyptian paintings and they also, um, uncovered a, like a carving,

316
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,800
like a stone carving and like the top part is kind of cut off, but you can definitely

317
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,000
see the lower parts.

318
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:45,600
There's like a person kneeling down and like, has like a scissor type device and the other

319
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,520
person's like genitalia are clearly out.

320
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,920
So you can, you can tell like, it's definitely like circumcision.

321
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:51,320
Like there's not much question there.

322
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:56,000
And I'm not even an ancient Egyptologist or like an Indiana Jones.

323
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,320
Like that's not who I am, but looking at the picture, you're like, yeah, that dude's going

324
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:00,720
to get snipped, you know?

325
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:07,840
But basically for the Egyptians, it was a, it was a ritual circumcision as a prerequisite

326
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,280
to entering the priesthood.

327
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:10,280
Interesting.

328
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,200
So it wasn't a society wide.

329
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:13,200
Uh, no.

330
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,800
And, and, and this is going to be a recurring theme through some of this stuff that we're

331
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,040
going to talk about.

332
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:24,840
So I want everyone to keep in mind circumcision, at least in Egypt appears to have been a ritual

333
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,280
as a prerequisite to becoming a priest.

334
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,360
And this will tie into our, our Jewish friends in a little bit.

335
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,640
Um, but there's a Greek historian Herodotus.

336
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,080
Oh my God.

337
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,880
I did, I told you that story.

338
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,040
When I was in college, I was doing research for some paper, doesn't matter.

339
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:52,760
And uh, so I have the entire collection of Herodotus in like on my desk and my buddy,

340
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,160
who was my roommate was like the histories of Herodotus.

341
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:58,160
What's that?

342
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,160
And I started, I just couldn't, we were stoners obviously.

343
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:02,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

344
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:07,600
And it's, I just, I couldn't stop myself from breaking out laughing because I was like,

345
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,600
Oh my God, this is so crazy all over again.

346
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,080
Well, I'm sorry.

347
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,760
I like, I know how to pronounce Socrates.

348
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:20,440
Uh, but we, and this has been like a recurring theme this season on the, on the podcast is

349
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:21,800
Nate can't pronounce stuff.

350
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,000
Hardy har har.

351
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,400
So I'm not Herodotus.

352
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,640
I wasn't intentionally being dense.

353
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,840
I was just trying, you know, like I don't speak the Greek, right?

354
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,440
Trying to bait me is what you're doing.

355
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,640
Well, it worked.

356
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:37,640
It worked.

357
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:38,640
Okay.

358
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:43,920
So, uh, Herodotus, Herodotus, Herodotus, Herodotus.

359
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:44,920
Okay.

360
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,600
Uh, so apparently Herodotus recorded this practice in Egypt in the fifth century BC.

361
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,520
And in the Semitic tradition, male circumcision is linked to a covenant with God dating back

362
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:55,520
to Abraham.

363
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:56,520
Okay.

364
00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:01,160
So many Western scholars attribute it to ancient Egypt, but many scholars today believe that

365
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,360
the origin of the practice goes back further and originates with the inhabitants of Southern

366
00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:07,280
Arabia and parts of Africa.

367
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,280
Interesting.

368
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:09,680
That doesn't surprise me.

369
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:10,680
No.

370
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,800
And over the millennia, circumcision has been most often used as a religious rite, a rite

371
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:19,120
of passage into madhood, but it's also been a form of punishment in wartime.

372
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:24,520
So modern, modern day times, circumcision is widespread in Australia, Canada, the United

373
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:31,600
States, South Korea, most of Africa, parts of Asia, but it's relatively rare for non-religious

374
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,280
reasons in like South Africa, Southern Africa, Latin America, Europe, and other parts of

375
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,280
Asia.

376
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,280
Interesting.

377
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:39,280
All right.

378
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,720
And, um, because we had on our show and I'm good friends with Simcha, I did ask him a

379
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,760
few things about circumcision, him being Jewish.

380
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,400
And, um, but you know, I wanted to get an expert's opinion on this.

381
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,760
And so he, he, he pointed me in some certain directions.

382
00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:02,560
And so I did find some stuff because, okay, it was Robin Hood, Men in Tights, right?

383
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,400
And you've got a friar talking, he's got the little like Dick Eotene.

384
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,400
Yes.

385
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:07,400
Mel Brooks.

386
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,400
Yes.

387
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:09,400
Yeah.

388
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:10,400
Mel Brooks, right?

389
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,480
So I feel like it's, it's safe to say most often when people nowadays think of circumcision,

390
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,600
the first thing is, is a Jewish ritual.

391
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,120
And it doesn't have to be, that doesn't have to be something negative.

392
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,120
It doesn't have to be something, you know, but it just, it is what it is because that's

393
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:26,280
part of their religion.

394
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,960
So, but anyway, so I tried to do a bunch of different research and stuff.

395
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,040
I've got this whole, whole section here now called ancient practitioners.

396
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,640
So we're trying to figure out where this kind of came from and what was going on here.

397
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,000
So let me take a couple more puffs off the, off the cigar.

398
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,720
Do you have any questions so far, Mike?

399
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,240
We've kind of broadly said that it could have come from Africa.

400
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:47,240
Could it come from Egyptians?

401
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,640
I mean, Egypt is in Africa or on the African continent.

402
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:57,160
It's on the African continent, but it's, I mean, it's a Mediterranean, imperial nation

403
00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,400
in terms of like historical sense.

404
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,000
It's not really considered part of Africa.

405
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,320
Well, it's part of Africa, but it's North Africa and North Africa was part of the Mediterranean

406
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,040
slash European zeitgeist.

407
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,040
Yeah.

408
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,600
I mean, it's a Western nation.

409
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,760
It's definitely on the African continent, but it wasn't necessarily classified as an

410
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,120
African nation, you know, as Mediterranean, like you said, you know, there was a lot of

411
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:20,120
different people.

412
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,200
There's a lot of Nigerians there and stuff.

413
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:23,200
Yeah.

414
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,200
Let's not go there.

415
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:27,200
Okay.

416
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,400
It's not, uh, you leave the farmers alone.

417
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:30,400
Okay.

418
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:37,080
Yeah, we're going to, we're going to go to ancient practitioners.

419
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,400
So it says here, or the research that I've done, these are all my notes that I took.

420
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:47,520
So I'm like, it says here, all the notes I took previously, uh, last episode you heard

421
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:48,520
me take notes.

422
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:49,520
No.

423
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:54,040
So it's all really evidence, uh, archaeological or textual within or beyond the Torah, uh,

424
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:59,480
to support that the notion of circumcision was customary among the Canaanites, Canaanites,

425
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:05,260
Canaanites, uh, Homer didn't, yes, Homer didn't mention anything about circumcision being

426
00:20:05,260 --> 00:20:11,640
customary in his work, Troy, uh, which goes by Ayleon in other languages, I guess.

427
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:12,640
The Ayleod.

428
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,160
It's not Ayleod.

429
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,880
It's I with a, with a asterisk over the top of it or apostrophe over the top of it.

430
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:20,880
L I O N.

431
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:21,880
Oh, was that Ayleod?

432
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,640
And the parentheses it says, it says Troy.

433
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:24,640
So interesting.

434
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,000
Apparently has a work called Troy.

435
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:31,080
I mean, I feel like he was fairly, fairly, he had more works than the Ayleod and the

436
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,080
Odyssey, right?

437
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,800
Like he probably wrote more than two books.

438
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,760
Uh, it's my understanding that Homer is more of a mythic character.

439
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,680
That's like, uh, not like Jesus.

440
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,760
It'd be like, uh, John who wrote a book in the Bible, like it's not really one person,

441
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:48,760
you know what I mean?

442
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:49,760
Yeah.

443
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,720
John in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John didn't really write anything.

444
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:53,720
Right.

445
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,080
Well, like John supposedly wrote several books.

446
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,560
It's like not, no.

447
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:58,560
Yeah.

448
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,920
So well, and apparently it's supposedly this person named Jesus lived, but there's not

449
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,520
a whole awful lot of proof to corroborate that.

450
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,320
So hold on a second, bro.

451
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:12,000
A guy told me that there was a fountain in Jew Judea that they just discovered.

452
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,600
So obviously Jesus was real.

453
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,600
I know.

454
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,960
And it had the same number of pillars that the Bible said it did.

455
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:18,960
Exactly.

456
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,640
But that's, that's another episode.

457
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,080
We're just talking about snipping, sniffing the dick here.

458
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,080
Okay.

459
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,160
Hopefully, I mean, there's not really like a hashtag sarcasm, but you know, uh, our last

460
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,160
exchange was.

461
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:34,800
So there's also some Roman historians, Titus Livius of Alexandria.

462
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:41,120
He didn't really write anything about circumcision occurring among the Carthaginians or any other

463
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,880
Phoenician settlements in North Africa.

464
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,000
Phoenician Phoenician.

465
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,480
Is that Phoenician blind or Venetian blind?

466
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:49,480
Venetian.

467
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:50,480
Okay.

468
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,360
We're with, we're all on the same page here now.

469
00:21:53,360 --> 00:22:00,160
And the Sumerians nor the Akkadians or Assyrians, they didn't know or adopt circumcision.

470
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,760
And there's no description or support from any archeological evidence that this custom

471
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,400
was used in connection with the cult of God ill LL or other Semitic diet deities before

472
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,400
Abraham first visited Egypt.

473
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,400
Okay.

474
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,440
That's a lot of like mumbo jumbo stuff, but these are all like ancient religious cults

475
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:23,240
and I don't know, cult probably, I'm sorry, most of them were empires.

476
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,400
Most of them were empires, Syrians, Akkadians.

477
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,920
Uh, yeah.

478
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,040
Those are like the Canaanites or the Canaanites.

479
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,680
I mean, they were all empires.

480
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,640
So none of them did circumcision.

481
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:41,400
So even in the old Testament, Eliza from Damascus, whom Abraham rescued on his way to Canaan

482
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,440
was apparently uncircumcised.

483
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:51,840
So the name Eliza, Eliza, L E I E Z E R in Hebrew means God in the aid indicating that

484
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,200
he was a believer in God.

485
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,560
And so Abraham went heading to Kenan for a long time thereafter.

486
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,080
He was also uncircumcised.

487
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:04,080
So Abraham was, Abraham was uncircumcised according to things, texts back then, according

488
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:11,520
to the Torah, Abraham was finally circumcised at the age of 93, 90.

489
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,880
You're very, very close, a lot closer than I would have given you credit for.

490
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,080
So at the age of 90, he was circumcised, which is wild because we always hear about like,

491
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,880
Hey, our life expectancy is getting longer and longer and longer.

492
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,160
But you know, Abraham 90, he's like, yeah, I'm still, you know, young enough.

493
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,560
Let's clip this stuff off here.

494
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:32,680
There's quite a few biblical characters that lived quite extensive, quite long lives.

495
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:33,680
Yes.

496
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,600
And so it's also written that Eliza and all the other males in Abraham's family were circumcised

497
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:38,600
at the same time.

498
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,320
Good, good going Abraham.

499
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,100
I mean, I guess.

500
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:47,000
So the evidence kind of supports that during pre Abraham times circumcision wasn't really

501
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,680
a Semitic custom or required by God.

502
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:50,680
Okay.

503
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,140
It says God, ill, L or all.

504
00:23:52,140 --> 00:23:58,900
So I L E L or a L. So on the door of the sixth dynasty tomb of the Pharaoh, Ankh-mahur, this

505
00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:00,800
is going to be, I should, you know what I should have done?

506
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,960
I should have typed all of these names into like Google text to speech and practice my

507
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,120
pronunciation for this episode, but I didn't.

508
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:11,160
But there's a circumcision scene depicted.

509
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:19,400
This was a 2,355 to 2,343 BCE is the oldest example of circumcision from ancient Egypt.

510
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,920
Now here's where we start getting interesting because we're still kind of going through

511
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,680
some of the ancient stuff, right?

512
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:25,680
We're getting out.

513
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:26,680
It's all this ancient stuff.

514
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,920
It's kind of, it's, I don't know, maybe you're interested in it.

515
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:29,920
Maybe you're not.

516
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,800
But it's, for me, it's moderately interesting.

517
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,080
I find it to be interesting.

518
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,280
I'm sure Mike's at half mass this whole time, you know?

519
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,480
Oh, you know, I'm, I've been rubbing.

520
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,600
But Mike's also a history major and you the listener might not be, and I'm not, but I

521
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,760
do find history to be interesting.

522
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,120
But I mean, we're also talking about like ancient dicks, so they got to smell bad, right?

523
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:50,260
I'm guessing so.

524
00:24:50,260 --> 00:24:51,560
Like what was dick hygiene?

525
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,720
Like I can only think of like, and I always come back to this and I don't know if it's

526
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,880
right or wrong, but like, you know, the settlers, the American, European settlers going out

527
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:05,800
west for gold and like the Oregon Trail and walking across death Valley and fucking wool

528
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,480
three piece suits, you know, like, and they don't really pay.

529
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:10,640
Like it's got to smell bad.

530
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,080
It, I mean, yeah.

531
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,720
And there's animals everywhere and they're not bathing and there's no clean water.

532
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,440
I mean, that's the biggest thing.

533
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,680
You don't have clean water.

534
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,440
Not like the Roman, the Romans had baths and aqueducts and stuff like that.

535
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,240
So that's all fine and dandy, but you know, like some of these other cultures, I don't

536
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,240
know.

537
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:29,240
Okay.

538
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,160
Like a, like a wet market, you know, it's not going to be nice.

539
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,160
Yeah.

540
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,160
Yeah.

541
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,760
So to carry on with what I had mentioned earlier that would, that I said would come back time

542
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:44,360
and time again in ancient Egypt, the performance of circumcision was initially limited to the

543
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:50,520
priesthood who, in addition to the cleanliness of this operation and parted to that class,

544
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,620
class added the shaving of the whole body as a means of further purification.

545
00:25:55,620 --> 00:26:02,000
So once the priesthood, the religious class starts doing circumcision, guess who follows?

546
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:08,360
The nobility, royalty and higher warrior class also adopted circumcision as well.

547
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:14,360
And there's, and research says it was either as a hygienic precaution or this is my emphasis

548
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:18,280
here, more likely, an aristocratic prerogative and insignia.

549
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,280
Okay.

550
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,560
And this is going to come back throughout what we're talking about here with circumcision

551
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,880
is it started out in ancient Egypt as a class marker.

552
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,240
And then the nobility and royalty and the other classes, higher classes adopted it as

553
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,240
well.

554
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:40,940
And among the Greeks, around the times of Pythagoras, the philosophers, the Greek philosophers

555
00:26:40,940 --> 00:26:46,240
were also circumcised, but there's no mention really that the circumcision went beyond the

556
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,880
intellectual class.

557
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,360
So it's really, they're really talking about the research that I've done, you know, and

558
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:55,720
it was like, this, you know, this research is probably enough to get like a, I don't

559
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,880
know, B plus or an A minus in a college course, right?

560
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,880
Like I'm not going to go, I'm not going to go write a treatise on circumcision, but I

561
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,320
wanted to present like, this is something like, where did it come from?

562
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,320
Why are people doing this?

563
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,380
What's going on here?

564
00:27:07,380 --> 00:27:11,880
So I'm, you know, I'm trying to satisfy the curiosity itch, but go maybe a little bit

565
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,280
further than just base curiosity, right?

566
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,280
We've got that with the classes.

567
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,560
And now we're kind of moving through my things.

568
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,320
I hope that kind of makes sense.

569
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,080
This is kind of like when I was doing the research, this is kind of what made sense

570
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,800
for me to kind of chunk these out as.

571
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,960
So I'm kind of, we're going to go into some current practitioners.

572
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:30,960
Hell yeah.

573
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:31,960
So we've got-

574
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:32,960
Jews, Americans.

575
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:33,960
Easy Mike, easy.

576
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,960
You said you weren't going to say that term.

577
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:36,960
I mean, it's like-

578
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:37,960
Talking about Americans.

579
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:38,960
Not offensive.

580
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:39,960
Talking about Americans.

581
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:40,960
Okay.

582
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:41,960
All right.

583
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,680
So current practitioners, so circumcision currently is practiced in one of three ways.

584
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,440
We've got the ancient traditional method, the now common method, which was introduced

585
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,520
by rabbis and the medical method used by most non-Jews and non-Muslims.

586
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:55,520
Okay.

587
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:00,920
So the last method here is kind of been disconnected from religion or tradition with the rationale

588
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,440
mostly attributed to hygiene.

589
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:03,440
Okay.

590
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,600
But here's where it kind of gets a little interesting is because medical circumcision,

591
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:13,560
meaning not religious or traditional, was widely used by the British army prior and

592
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:19,280
during World War II to prevent military personnel serving in Asia and Africa from contracting

593
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,680
sexually transmitted diseases.

594
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,360
Is that effective?

595
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:24,360
We're going to get into that.

596
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:27,080
We're not going to answer that right now.

597
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:34,360
But that was kind of like, that was the biggest or most recent medical with the air quotes,

598
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,200
medical reason to circumcise.

599
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:42,680
They didn't want to get their military men coming back with some weird disease.

600
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,100
But the whole point is the British army was like, hey, our men are going out there.

601
00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:47,980
We don't want them to come back with diseases.

602
00:28:47,980 --> 00:28:51,480
We've heard or somebody said that maybe like snipping that will prevent it.

603
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:52,480
Okay.

604
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,840
So here's, okay, I thought I was going to like save this for later, but apparently part

605
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,980
of this research is it is clear that medical circumcision for the preventing of sexually

606
00:28:58,980 --> 00:29:02,800
transmitted diseases has no evidence basis.

607
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,800
So it has no evidence basis, right?

608
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,040
Likewise, the notions that circumcision will prevent boys from masturbating or developing

609
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,800
epilepsy are baseless and bizarre.

610
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:17,520
Are you telling me that Western doctors would perform medical procedures with no evidence?

611
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,160
Yes, but only with circumcision, nothing to do with gender reassignment.

612
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,920
Oh, I wasn't even thinking about that.

613
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,420
Well, don't, don't think about that.

614
00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:27,420
We don't want you to.

615
00:29:27,420 --> 00:29:28,420
It's best not to.

616
00:29:28,420 --> 00:29:29,520
Anyway, carry on.

617
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,460
There's also, so in the United States, France and England, there's a class.

618
00:29:33,460 --> 00:29:39,280
It's a class, a class thing that observe circumcision is a hygienic precaution.

619
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:40,280
Okay.

620
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,480
That sounds like it might be something that the lower classes do.

621
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,720
To me, it sounds like something that the class that can afford to go to Epstein Island and

622
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,400
not take any flack for it would do, but teach their own.

623
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:52,400
We don't know.

624
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,960
There's no evidence on that because they haven't released that data.

625
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:55,960
I understand.

626
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:56,960
Okay.

627
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,360
I'm going to get into some of the religious stuff with Judaism because I had a very good

628
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:02,360
question.

629
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:03,360
I thought I felt like it.

630
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,320
I felt like it, but I'm going to, I'm going to kind of go on the, on the basis of the

631
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,600
Judaic reasoning for circumcision.

632
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,520
Then I'm going to tell you my question and I'm going to tell you the answer to my question.

633
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:13,520
Sound good?

634
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:14,880
Yes, it sounds very good.

635
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,920
I'm about halfway done with my cigar, by the way.

636
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:17,920
Me as well.

637
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:18,920
Yeah, it's pretty good.

638
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,800
You, it is good off me.

639
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,560
Let's not fight this episode, Mike.

640
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,160
It did not have nice ash or only got about an inch on it.

641
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,160
Yeah.

642
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,960
The ash hasn't been as good as some of the other ones, but it's been tastier than some

643
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:31,960
of the other ones too.

644
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:32,960
So,

645
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:33,960
Absolutely.

646
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,280
I mean, I, so I quite like it.

647
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,760
I'm just about, I like it paid page three of my notes.

648
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,240
So it's a good halfway, halfway cigar checkpoint.

649
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,240
So good call, Mike.

650
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,240
Perfect.

651
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,440
I haven't got a lot of flavor change.

652
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:44,440
It's been pretty steady.

653
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,440
Oh, it's been, it's been solid.

654
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,240
It's been, I know we haven't said that this is the right term, but I'm going to say buttery.

655
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,360
Like it's been smooth, you know, like not, not tasting like butter, but you know, when

656
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:59,400
you like, you eat some bread or you eat something and it's just like, it's like just moist enough

657
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,040
and it's just flavorful enough.

658
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,840
And it's just, it's not necessarily like a punch in the taste buds, but it's like, it's

659
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:06,840
like checking all your boxes.

660
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,240
You know what I mean?

661
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,240
Absolutely.

662
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,760
So this one's quite, quite delightful to me.

663
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:18,600
So in Judaism, they call it a, well, probably mispronounce this it's B R I S. I'm going

664
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,080
to say bris, bris.

665
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,720
So that's a physical symbol of the relationship between God and the Jewish people.

666
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,520
And so it's a constant reminder of what the Jewish mission entails.

667
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,560
And this is from Chabad.org.

668
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:39,520
And they say that this reminder of the covenant between God and man is something that men

669
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,240
need more than women.

670
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,080
Is there any reason for that?

671
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,000
Or is it just a claim that is unsubstantiated?

672
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,800
I'm sure it's not unsubstantiated, but I'm not sure that it has any kind of like scientific

673
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:52,800
basis.

674
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,760
So if we get down to it, right.

675
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,480
So yeah, it's religious.

676
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:57,920
So it's religious.

677
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,720
So let's, let's look at it this way.

678
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:05,760
As a young man in high school, when you got your driver's license, did, did your parents

679
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:12,440
insurance rate go up more than your best female friends parents insurance rate went up?

680
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:13,440
I don't know.

681
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:14,440
I'm going to guess.

682
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:15,440
It did.

683
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:16,440
Yes.

684
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:17,440
I know that

685
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:23,480
young men cause a greater spike in insurance premiums than young women.

686
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:29,160
Despite the fact that statistically speaking, young women are worse drivers than young men.

687
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,600
Young women get in more accidents than young men.

688
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,020
That's not what Hollywood would have you believe.

689
00:32:35,020 --> 00:32:37,000
That's not what society would have you believe.

690
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:42,560
But as a young man, you make your parents insurance go up more so than a young female.

691
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:49,600
So I know that my insurance as a young male adult was higher than all of my girlfriends

692
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,560
and I had a better driver record than all of them.

693
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:53,560
Yes.

694
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:54,560
Right.

695
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:55,560
Yeah.

696
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,360
So, you know, is there a reason that the Jewish men need bigger reminder than Jewish women?

697
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,000
Maybe religiously, but I'm sure statistically it's probably not true.

698
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,760
Religiously, it might be true.

699
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:11,080
And I, you know, that's, I guess the trouble with like kind of researching some of these

700
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:16,560
topics or like this topic in particular is it's so ingrained in certain religions and

701
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:22,200
certain traditions and certain other things, you know, that to answer fully all of these

702
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:28,260
questions it would be a 25 page document of notes rather than a five page.

703
00:33:28,260 --> 00:33:34,360
So I tried to not question extra questions that popped up like, do Jewish men need a

704
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,120
bigger reminder than Jewish women?

705
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,120
I don't know.

706
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,120
Maybe, maybe they do.

707
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,120
Maybe they don't.

708
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,120
I don't know.

709
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:46,360
They, they do seem to really avoid the, the vaginal blood.

710
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,280
So maybe, maybe they're onto something.

711
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:49,280
I don't know.

712
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,280
Maybe they're not.

713
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,280
Who knows?

714
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,280
Tough to say.

715
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:53,280
Well said.

716
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:58,800
I guess they have like a, I don't know if you play like video games and stuff and like

717
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,120
you try and like spam this thing that gives you like resources or whatever, there's like

718
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,480
a cool down time, right?

719
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,280
You know, like you can only spam it every five minutes or something.

720
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:13,920
Well apparently like after a Jewish woman's period, there's like a seven day cool down

721
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:20,080
period where it's not allowable, you know, for hanky panky and stuff.

722
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,520
But you know, they put it, they put a timeline on it.

723
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,040
And they also put a timeline on after giving birth.

724
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,040
That those both seem reasonable in ancient society.

725
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,040
Yeah.

726
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,600
Well, and they even seem reasonable in modern society, I guess, like honestly.

727
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:35,680
Oh, for sure.

728
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,920
You know, but I'll tell you like the, let's just, I don't mean to be like, I'm not trying

729
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,640
to like minimize this by what I'm about to say.

730
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,940
I'm just trying to like phrase it in like a conversational way, not in a making fun

731
00:34:47,940 --> 00:34:48,940
of way.

732
00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:55,200
The cool down period giving birth is less than the medically prescribed, let's say cool

733
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,760
down after a C-section.

734
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:57,760
Sure.

735
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:04,460
So they didn't medically prescribed C-section is like longer than what the Jewish like after

736
00:35:04,460 --> 00:35:06,920
giving birth cool down period is.

737
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,360
Well they were trying to make these decisions in ancient times.

738
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,640
They didn't have years of medical research to back up their claim.

739
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:14,640
They just knew it was a good idea.

740
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:15,640
No, and yeah.

741
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,960
And I mean, I'm not trying to say anything negative about it.

742
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,360
I'm just saying like, if I'm looking at this and saying like, it seems understandable that

743
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,240
it wouldn't be the same.

744
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:28,440
An American doctor is saying after a C-section, you need X number of weeks before even thinking

745
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:29,600
about doing it.

746
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,280
And the Jewish people are like, Hey, we need slightly less number of weeks for doing it.

747
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,800
Like that's, I mean, I feel like that's a good like feather in their cap for them.

748
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:39,800
You know what I mean?

749
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,160
Like they're close to what Western medicine says.

750
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,120
And Western medicine is probably saying like, you can go back a lot earlier than you think

751
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:47,680
because we got to have you back at work.

752
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,800
We got to make you making money for the rich people.

753
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:50,800
You know what I mean?

754
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:51,800
Right.

755
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:52,800
Yeah.

756
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:53,800
It's going to be the minimum allowable time for sure.

757
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:54,800
Well, undoubtedly.

758
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,040
So anyway, not, not supposed to be like a judgment thing.

759
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,560
Uh, but so my question then was what's the point of religion, right?

760
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,760
Like the point of religion is we want to try and emulate God.

761
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,820
We want to try and emulate the religious figure.

762
00:36:06,820 --> 00:36:08,680
We want to be like them.

763
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:14,080
And in the Bible, it says God created man in his image or her image or however you translate

764
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,380
the ancient Hebrew or whatever it is.

765
00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:22,120
So my question was if we are made in God's image, is God circumcised or not?

766
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:23,120
No.

767
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,000
Ah, that's where you might be wrong.

768
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,000
My friend.

769
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,000
Okay.

770
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:34,080
According to habad.org, God created the world imperfect and gave humans the mission to perfect

771
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,080
it.

772
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,480
So God created wheat and humans make bread.

773
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,400
God created a jungle and humans create civilization.

774
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:47,840
And the point is that God himself or herself, the giant God schlong is circumcised and he

775
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:53,320
gave humans the extra bit of skin in order to make them make the covenant with God by

776
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,320
stepping that little bit of skin off and proving that they are worthy of God's love.

777
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:02,200
You would think in the handbook that we all got at birth, that would have been a little

778
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,040
bit bigger print because I never got that message growing up Catholic.

779
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,040
But that's Catholic, that's Catholicism.

780
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:17,400
I just don't know why my handbook is that much different.

781
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,920
Well, now look, I grew up Lutheran, which is Catholic light, basically.

782
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:22,920
Yes.

783
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,480
Even though they'll bitch and moan about how different it is from Catholicism.

784
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:27,480
Me?

785
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:28,480
It is not.

786
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,480
No, not you.

787
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,400
I'm just saying people like the Lutherans are like, well, we, you know, Martin Luther,

788
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,320
we seceded from those evil Catholics and blah, blah, blah.

789
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,440
It's like, well, why are you doing all the Catholic shit?

790
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:39,440
Yeah, you're not speaking in Latin.

791
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,440
But they have saints and stuff?

792
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:41,440
But it's all the same shit.

793
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:47,360
They don't have saints, but they still have all the same like the Lord's Prayer, the Communion,

794
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,920
and they don't, I mean, they don't, so they don't do the confessional.

795
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,320
But they have like just almost not quite as long, but like almost as long services and

796
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,360
like a lot of the same things are there.

797
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,080
If you've been to both kinds of services, which I have, the only Catholic service that

798
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,800
was drastically different for me than a Lutheran service was in Annapolis.

799
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:11,960
I went to a Catholic service on the base and it was fully in Latin.

800
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,720
So very easy to sleep through, I guess, is the summation of that.

801
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:17,720
How could you do that?

802
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:21,880
I mean, when I was actively Catholic, I always skipped leg day at the gym.

803
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:22,880
You know what I mean?

804
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,000
Oh, I know what you mean.

805
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,280
I was a lot more fit in those days so I could kneel and stand up, kneel and stand up, kneel

806
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:31,760
and stand up ad nauseam.

807
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,240
Anyway, back to the topic.

808
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:34,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

809
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:36,640
I mean, it's all kind of part of the topic.

810
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,640
Catholics, they don't, Catholics don't really circumcise, do they?

811
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,160
No, no, no, especially not like the German Catholics.

812
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,160
Yeah.

813
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,880
So my grandmother was full blooded German and we were Lutheran.

814
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,000
So I feel like that kind of had part of part of something to do with it.

815
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:56,480
I feel like Lutherans are more pro circumcision than Catholics, but I could be wrong.

816
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:57,480
Probably.

817
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,400
I mean, there's looking back at it.

818
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,560
I think that a lot of the Catholic teaching is anti-Semitic.

819
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:09,760
Not like not like overtly anti-Semitic, but it's definitely subtext.

820
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:16,360
Well, it's probably developed or, you know, like Judaism and Catholicism coexisted for

821
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:23,280
a long enough time before these other Protestant religions came out that Catholicism has probably

822
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,600
evolved to become anti-Judaic and vice versa, right?

823
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,600
Yeah.

824
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:34,720
I would say that it's less now than it was 80 years ago, let's say, to put a specific

825
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,480
date on it about 80 years ago.

826
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,600
But you know, it's still there.

827
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:40,600
It's still subtext.

828
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:41,600
Yeah.

829
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,080
So our next little foray is going to be into medical necessity.

830
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,120
And I know you were talking about medical necessity and whether or not circumcision

831
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,680
will reduce the risk of things.

832
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:57,400
Now this is from the National Library of Medicine and they say it's become clear in recent years

833
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,360
that circumcision has long-term medical benefits.

834
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,760
There were three randomized trials in Africa that demonstrated that medical circumcision

835
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:11,800
reduces the acquisition of HIV among males by 51 to 60% and reduces the acquisition of

836
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:20,040
genital herpes by 28 to 34% and it reduces the risk of human papillomavirus, which may

837
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,760
lead to penile cancer by 32 to 35%.

838
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:28,080
Terminalysis, they claim, has also suggested that these preventative benefits increase

839
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,640
over time.

840
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:36,040
So I mean, you know, 28 to 30%, 30 to 35%, those are all like fine numbers.

841
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:41,640
But I guess like the big one is the HIV apparently dropping by 51 to 60%.

842
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,280
So it does lower your odds of getting a venereal disease.

843
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,200
Well, according to three randomized trials in Africa.

844
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,200
Hmm.

845
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,200
Yeah.

846
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,840
I'm just saying like...

847
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:55,840
It might be suspect.

848
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,840
It might be true, but it might be suspect.

849
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:58,840
It might be suspect.

850
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,160
It might be true.

851
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:05,760
So there are instances where, and this is according to the Mayo Clinic now, where there

852
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,880
is a medical need for circumcision.

853
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:15,480
And I did talk to a nurse from the neonatal intensive care unit and they said a lot of

854
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,520
preemies, preemie boys, need to be circumcised for medical reasons.

855
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,880
And so this now is according to the Mayo Clinic, this is kind of the research to kind of back

856
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,840
that up, is the foreskin can be too tight to be pulled back or retracted.

857
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,680
So especially with, and especially with preemie babies, they kind of swell up with fluids.

858
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,440
So then it becomes an issue when the foreskin can't retract as intended.

859
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:39,440
Right?

860
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:40,440
Sure.

861
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,560
And then the Mayo Clinic here to counter, maybe not counter, but to shed some additional

862
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,160
light on what we previously read from the National Library of Medicine, Mayo Clinic

863
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:54,520
says in other cases, particularly in parts of Africa, circumcision is recommended for

864
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:59,120
older boys or men to reduce the risk of sexually transmitted infections.

865
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,120
There we go.

866
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:09,000
If you're living in an area where sexual infections are rampant, it will probably help, I guess.

867
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:15,880
But it's interesting that these two independent websites, one is a.gov, one's a.org, would

868
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,560
kind of say Africa is kind of a shithole for STDs.

869
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:20,560
You know what I mean?

870
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,000
I mean, I don't know if that's true or not.

871
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:29,000
I know that supposedly AIDS is very common there, but it doesn't have the same symptoms

872
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,000
as AIDS in the United States.

873
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,120
So it's questionable whether or not.

874
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,560
I'm just saying that it's interesting that they said that the National Library of Medicine

875
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,520
was like, oh yeah, circumcision is awesome.

876
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,880
It cuts down HIV in Africa.

877
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:44,880
You know what I mean?

878
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,360
I'm not saying that it's not true.

879
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,440
I'm just saying we have to take some of this stuff and be like, okay, well, they're citing

880
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,480
three different trials in Africa.

881
00:42:53,480 --> 00:43:01,400
They're not necessarily citing three different trials in Detroit or Dallas or Japan or South

882
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:07,240
Korea or someplace where there's standards that we would recognize.

883
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:08,240
Yeah.

884
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:14,480
And maybe easy access to prophylactics, like condoms or safe sex or other.

885
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:15,480
I mean, I don't know.

886
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,120
I mean, maybe circumcision is great and everybody should do it.

887
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,120
I don't know.

888
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,640
I want to study from New Zealand.

889
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:29,000
Canada.

890
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,480
Was Frodo circumcised?

891
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,600
I don't know.

892
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,920
I don't know how it's reproduced for the most part.

893
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,400
I don't know either.

894
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,600
I'm sure there's a lovely fanfic out there about that whole thing.

895
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,320
Now, one of the other interesting things when I was talking to our friend Simha was that

896
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,120
he said that there were people that were born circumcised.

897
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,840
And I thought to myself, that has to be silly.

898
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:53,840
So I looked it up.

899
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:54,840
Okay.

900
00:43:54,840 --> 00:44:00,000
So in the book, The Fathers According to Rabbi Nathan, whom I'm predisposed to like because

901
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:06,400
that's a variation of my full name, but there are a whole list of people from the Israeli

902
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,240
scriptures, Israelite scriptures, that are born circumcised.

903
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:16,880
They include Adam, no last name needed, Seth, also no last name needed, Shem, Noah, Jacob,

904
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:23,840
Joseph and Moses, the wicked Balaam, Samuel, David, Jeremiah, and some name I can't pronounce,

905
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:24,840
Zerubabel.

906
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,320
Z-E-R-U-B-B-A-B-E-L.

907
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,360
I am not going to attempt to pronounce that.

908
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,080
I do not know what that is.

909
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,160
Let's move along.

910
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:39,440
So it's being born without a foreskin was regarded as a privilege of the most saintly

911
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:40,440
of people.

912
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,120
So they were people made in the image of God.

913
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,560
Has this been recorded to happen in modern times?

914
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,440
That was my next question.

915
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:56,320
It's called, it's called apostheia, A-P-O-S-T-H-I-A, in parenthesis, natural circumcision.

916
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:02,600
It's the condition of being born without a prepus, prepus, P-R-E-P-U-C-E, which is

917
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,100
the medical jargon for foreskin.

918
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:07,560
So you can literally be born without a foreskin.

919
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:13,040
But according to the National Library of Medicine, only sporadic cases are ever reported.

920
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,120
So it's not a common thing.

921
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,480
But we talked on a previous episode about two blonde haired, blue eyed people make a

922
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,560
baby could be redheaded and brown eyed or something.

923
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,360
You know what I mean?

924
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,680
It's not super common, but it can apparently medically happen.

925
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:35,660
The other question I had was, maybe this is more of an episode about how my brain works

926
00:45:35,660 --> 00:45:38,520
and less about circumcision, but hopefully it's both.

927
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,840
I mean, hopefully it's more about the circumcision and nobody's trying to psychoanalyze me because

928
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,000
that would be bad, I think.

929
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,720
But I live at Mike's house and my name is also Mike.

930
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:51,880
So if you need to commit me, that's where I am.

931
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,640
So then I thought, what about, so we kind of went through, we went through the ancient,

932
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,560
the origins of it.

933
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:03,320
I wasn't super satisfied with, well, ancient Egypt did it and whatever, but that's fine.

934
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,320
And then we kind of went through like modern times and then we kind of went through, you

935
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,800
know, like religious reasons, medical reasons, people born circumcised.

936
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:16,360
Well then I thought, well, what about uncircumcised adults that choose circumcision?

937
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:17,480
Like what's the studies on that?

938
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:18,840
Well, like what's going on there?

939
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,160
Is that a thing?

940
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:25,080
Because we had a son not that long ago, three months ago.

941
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:31,520
And this of course was a topic open for discussion in our household prior to his birth.

942
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:37,400
And of course, and you might not know this Mike, but you probably do because if you do

943
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,400
anything in life, you know, there's a whole, was it cadre?

944
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,880
Like a slew, like a whole bunch of people that want to give you input on whatever it

945
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,560
is that you're trying to do, right?

946
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,880
Whether it's a kid or a dog, if you want to try and like learn pickleball, like everybody

947
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:51,880
has an opinion.

948
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,360
We all have one or multiple.

949
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,560
But there was somebody who said that they chose not to circumcise their son.

950
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,840
And when their son was an adult, they chose circumcision, they chose to go have it done.

951
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,600
So I was like, well, that's interesting.

952
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,480
Like would people choose that?

953
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,200
You know, like I just, everybody has a, has a different like life circumstance.

954
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:16,000
But for me, like it's a fairly sensitive area, but at least for me, would I choose to have

955
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,080
things cut off of it?

956
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,080
I'd probably not like that probably be my last inclination.

957
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,040
You know what I mean?

958
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,480
But I don't have the luxury of like saying that because that choice was made for me when

959
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,220
I was an infant.

960
00:47:28,220 --> 00:47:34,160
So apparently like some older boys and men need to have circumcision due to medical problems.

961
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,720
Some of them have a scarring of the foreskin that stops it from retracting, which kind

962
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:41,240
of goes back to that, you know, like medical reason for an infant, right?

963
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:46,480
Like if it doesn't retract, you get all sorts of infections and stuff because you can't

964
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,200
just have like pee, you know, up in your body and stuff.

965
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:50,280
It's got to get rid of there.

966
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:55,440
You can have recurring inflammation or recurring inflections, infections, and you can have

967
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,920
a foreskin apparently that's too tight that causes pain or spraying when urinating.

968
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:06,480
So I guess the way that modern urinals are designed doesn't take into account like a

969
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,100
foreskin that's too tight.

970
00:48:08,100 --> 00:48:13,760
So if you find yourself at like the state fair with the urinary trough, the pee trough,

971
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,960
and you're not getting it in the trough, you probably need to be circumcised because you

972
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,480
probably have a foreskin that's too tight.

973
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:19,480
Again, I'm not a doctor.

974
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:20,480
I'm just saying.

975
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:21,480
Right.

976
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:22,480
This is not medical advice.

977
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:23,480
Warning, warning.

978
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:30,480
And then, yeah, and then there's also like if you have recurrent urinary tract infections,

979
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,900
that would be another medical reason for choosing circumcision.

980
00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:38,780
So you've got adult circumcision and there's, so that was from betterhealth.gov.

981
00:48:38,780 --> 00:48:43,320
And then we've got a medstarhealth.org, which says that you, there's some skin conditions

982
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:48,440
as well, in addition to what we just talked about that might lead people to choose circumcision,

983
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:49,940
which are genital warts.

984
00:48:49,940 --> 00:48:53,440
So if you have warts developing on your foreskin, I'm sorry, this episode is gross.

985
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,840
Everybody, it is what it is.

986
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,520
You know, like we should be comfortable talking about this stuff, I guess.

987
00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:59,520
I don't want to.

988
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,520
Well, facts are the facts.

989
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,520
You know, facts are the facts.

990
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,520
I mean, the facts are the facts, you know.

991
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,840
And maybe, you know what, you know what, people talk about getting mammograms and they set

992
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,680
up these free mammogram booths and stuff.

993
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,720
Like this is that for men.

994
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:11,720
Okay.

995
00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:13,800
If you have genital warts on your foreskin, talk to your doctor.

996
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:14,800
Okay.

997
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:15,800
Like just do it.

998
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:16,800
It's not a big deal.

999
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,360
It says circumcision might help with that.

1000
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:23,920
There's an immune mediated skin condition called lichen sclerosis.

1001
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,480
And it can cause the scarring of the foreskin.

1002
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,640
It causes it to become too tight around the shaft and the head of the penis.

1003
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:30,640
And that can make infections.

1004
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,440
So if you have that, talk to your doctor.

1005
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,080
See if circumcision is right for you.

1006
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,240
And there's something called phimosis, which is the foreskin tightens and kind of traps

1007
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:44,400
urine underneath the skin, which is a bad situation all around, as most of us can imagine.

1008
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,240
So they're definitely, I mean, kind of answer your question, Mike, like there's some like

1009
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:54,720
preventative medical things that kind of sort of might be based in scientific fact for circumcision,

1010
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:59,580
but there's definitely some things that a man can experience or an older boy can experience

1011
00:49:59,580 --> 00:50:03,080
where you might want to get circumcised if you have not been.

1012
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,560
Like if there's pain, if there's tightness, if there's warts and infections, right?

1013
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:07,880
Yeah, that all makes sense.

1014
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:08,880
Yeah.

1015
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,760
I mean, so there's definitely, there are definitely some medical things.

1016
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,960
Is it enough medical things to preventatively do it?

1017
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:15,960
We're going to come to that.

1018
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,160
I'm going to guess no.

1019
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:23,320
I'm going to guess no, since they weren't chopping dicks off like a hundred thousand

1020
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,320
years ago or 10,000 years ago or whatever.

1021
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,800
So, yeah, I mean, that's true.

1022
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:29,800
I want to try and find.

1023
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,960
So I found this amazing book.

1024
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,760
It was crazy good.

1025
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,840
This guy, let me see if I can find which, yes, here it is.

1026
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:45,480
So it was, this book is called Prehistory of Circumcision from the Earliest Times to

1027
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,400
the Present and it was written in 1891.

1028
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,600
And this dude, he was not publishing a scientific article if that's what you're trying to look

1029
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:53,600
for.

1030
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,400
But this guy was like, why are we chopping people's dicks off?

1031
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,320
And I'm like 1891, like I'm an 1890s motherfucker.

1032
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:00,920
Like why are we doing this shit?

1033
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,280
And like he went and did all this research about like the ancient Egyptians.

1034
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,360
And that was part of the stuff that I quoted.

1035
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,880
But then he also like, he went through like, dude, and you can find it on like Project

1036
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:10,880
Gutenberg.

1037
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,000
I'm going to put the link in the thing in the description, but like it's the whole book

1038
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,160
there and the table of contents alone is worth the read, just the table of contents.

1039
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:19,160
You don't have to read the whole book.

1040
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:24,200
But like, it's like, if you can imagine somebody like in the 1800s being like, dude, what's

1041
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:25,500
going on with this?

1042
00:51:25,500 --> 00:51:26,500
And trying to figure it out.

1043
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:27,500
He doesn't have the internet, right?

1044
00:51:27,500 --> 00:51:30,280
And he's like, was this guy English or was he an American?

1045
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:31,280
What's going on here?

1046
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:32,280
I'm sure he was English.

1047
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:33,280
I don't know.

1048
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,280
Oh, that one.

1049
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:35,280
I would love that.

1050
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,720
Like, yeah, I mean, late Victorian, early Edwardian English guy.

1051
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:39,720
It's so good.

1052
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:42,600
Like the whole, the way, the tone of the book was amazing.

1053
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,200
Like, you're like, oh my God, this guy is just like stream of consciousness writing

1054
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,000
about what he's finding out almost.

1055
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,000
You know what I mean?

1056
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,840
Like it was not what you would expect from a scientific article or journal today where

1057
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,480
it's like removed emotionally.

1058
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,320
So it's very interesting.

1059
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:00,320
It's entertaining.

1060
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:01,320
Yes.

1061
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,480
And I feel like, I feel like he did as best as he could.

1062
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,000
Scientific, you know, like to make it scientific, right?

1063
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,720
Like he wasn't trying to be conversational with it.

1064
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:13,560
He just kind of like came out because it was, you know, it was 1890.

1065
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:14,560
Like what are you going to do?

1066
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:19,280
Like you can't, you know, you don't have the same kind of like high science that we have

1067
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,060
nowadays with things where it's like, well, you can't question this or I can't have feelings

1068
00:52:23,060 --> 00:52:24,060
about this or I can't.

1069
00:52:24,060 --> 00:52:27,640
It was a little bit different, a little bit different era, but that doesn't mean that

1070
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,520
his research was any less justified.

1071
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:31,520
You know what I mean?

1072
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:32,520
Yes.

1073
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,720
Do you want to talk about the national trends or do you want to talk about whether or not

1074
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:39,160
it's genital mutilation first?

1075
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:40,280
National trends.

1076
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,440
Genital mutilation is probably the end cap.

1077
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,680
I think that'll be the nightcap.

1078
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:54,400
So they did a study on the 32 year period between 1979 through 2010, the national rate

1079
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:59,100
of newborn circumcision in the United States here declined by 10% overall.

1080
00:52:59,100 --> 00:53:05,520
So in 1979, the rate was 64.5% of newborn men were circumcised.

1081
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,480
And in 2010, it was 58.3%.

1082
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:08,480
Interesting.

1083
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:16,920
The highest circumcision rate ever was in 1981 at 64.9% and the lowest ever was 2007

1084
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:17,920
at 55.4.

1085
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,080
And this is according to the CDC.

1086
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,560
I'm kind of surprised that it's that low.

1087
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,720
I figured it would be significantly higher in the United States.

1088
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:26,720
Okay.

1089
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:29,440
I mean, not that I've done any research on it.

1090
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:36,640
Fairly normal based on a study of pornography, but that was done by somebody else.

1091
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:41,640
Yes.

1092
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:42,960
I'm not looking that close.

1093
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:43,960
Yeah.

1094
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,520
That's not what I'm looking at.

1095
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,360
I'm just saying like, you know, AI helped.

1096
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:54,280
So there's this other thing here where it says that there's a social anthropologist

1097
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,860
named Sarah John's daughter.

1098
00:53:56,860 --> 00:54:00,000
And she pointed out that there's not a one-to-one relationship between the amount of genital

1099
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,720
tissue removed in males, females, or even intersex people.

1100
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:09,040
And either subjective satisfaction while having sex or feeling of having been personally harmed

1101
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,960
because one private's parts were altered.

1102
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,520
Medically unnecessary genital surgeries of whatever degree of severity will affect different

1103
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:16,520
people differently.

1104
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,040
This is what she says.

1105
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:22,480
This is because each individual's relationship to their own body is unique, including what

1106
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,600
they find aesthetically appealing and what degree of risk they feel comfortable taking

1107
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,680
on when it comes to elective surgeries on the reproductive organs.

1108
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:35,240
And even what degree of sexual sensitivity they prefer for personal and cultural reasons.

1109
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:40,040
That's why ethicists are beginning to argue that individuals should be left to decide

1110
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:44,920
what to do with their own genitals when it comes to irreversible surgery, whether, whatever

1111
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,480
their sex or gender.

1112
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:52,280
And this is Sarah John's daughter and there's a Dr. Brian D. Earp.

1113
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,600
And so this is kind of their take on circumcision.

1114
00:54:55,600 --> 00:55:01,480
There's another thing here where and we're going to briefly talk about female circumcision,

1115
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,680
which was primarily an African, can I say Negroid?

1116
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,640
This is what is from the source.

1117
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,880
An African Negroid custom.

1118
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,360
That used to be like the technical term.

1119
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,760
I think that it is now considered racist.

1120
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:16,760
You know what?

1121
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:17,760
I'm sure it is.

1122
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:22,520
I'm sure at one point in time, that was the scientific term that was accepted.

1123
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,760
So it was a research paper.

1124
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:30,760
I'm not, I'm not, this isn't my own words, but they, but this scientific journal says

1125
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:36,720
that the African Negroid custom is not discussed in detail because it is an inhumane custom

1126
00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:38,520
based on total selfishness.

1127
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:44,200
So they're talking about the ancient, an ancient version of the belt of fidelity in which ancient

1128
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:49,400
Greece used circumcision when their warriors headed to war and its main purpose, and this

1129
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,200
was female circumcision.

1130
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:56,120
They would circumcise the women when the men went to war to prevent the women and their

1131
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:00,960
partners from receiving sexual acts and for receiving pleasure from those acts and in

1132
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:06,640
part to reduce fertility by preventing complete expulsion of menstrual blood from the womb.

1133
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:12,480
So you know, the female circumcision was kind of to population control.

1134
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:17,400
And then let's say here that I've got another study here from the National Library of Medicine

1135
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:22,600
where neonatal male circumcision is a generally safe procedure with an overall complication

1136
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:26,160
rate and this isn't Israel of just 0.34%.

1137
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,400
But they say that some patients do experience risk and complications from male circumcision

1138
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,000
are usually minor, often involving bleeding, oozing or a local infection.

1139
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,960
And they're almost always correctable.

1140
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:36,960
That's that.

1141
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,920
I have one last thing before we get in, before we kind of like you and I kind of talk about

1142
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:41,920
what our thoughts are.

1143
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,360
Do you have any, any thoughts so far, Mike?

1144
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,760
No, I, no, not really.

1145
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,360
Which means you do, but you're going to hold on to them until the end.

1146
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:50,680
Yes, I believe so.

1147
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:51,680
All right.

1148
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:56,700
So here's something from the Oxford Journal of Legal Studies.

1149
00:56:56,700 --> 00:57:00,640
And I wanted to mention this because this is going to tie into what I'm going to say

1150
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:06,440
because I read a lot of things on whether or not male circumcision is genital mutilation

1151
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:07,820
or not.

1152
00:57:07,820 --> 00:57:13,440
And we're going to get into it a little bit, but here is an abstract from the Oxford Journal

1153
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:14,440
of Legal Studies.

1154
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:19,480
And it says in the United Kingdom, male genital cutting is in principle legal and may even

1155
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,200
be ordered by a court, which is weird.

1156
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,600
Like the court could order you to become circumcised.

1157
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,480
Whereas female genital cutting is a criminal offense.

1158
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:29,480
Yes.

1159
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:34,320
So basically they're trying to propose that there's a different foundation for the categorical

1160
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:39,080
rejection of female genital cutting versus the male medical cutting.

1161
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,920
And the best, the best thing I read, which I didn't, I didn't cite or quote, but because

1162
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,220
it was one of those things where it's kind of like somebody's opinion, but it was somebody

1163
00:57:46,220 --> 00:57:52,360
who was not just some guy or some dude or some woman or some whatever hiding behind

1164
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:53,680
like a user handle online.

1165
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:58,560
But this was somebody and they were saying, look, when we talk about genital mutilation

1166
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:05,740
and you talk about male circumcision, most people will come out and say, yeah, but compared

1167
00:58:05,740 --> 00:58:08,520
to female circumcision, it's nothing.

1168
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:15,040
Now what this person said was we generally, when we're comparing male and female circumcision,

1169
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:20,880
generally people are taking the absolute worst case scenario for female circumcision or female

1170
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:22,160
genital mutilation.

1171
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:28,120
And they're comparing it to the best case scenario of male circumcision or male genital

1172
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:33,960
mutilation because there are a lot of other forms of female genital mutilation or female

1173
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:38,180
circumcision that don't, don't involve the cutting of everything off.

1174
00:58:38,180 --> 00:58:39,180
You know what I mean?

1175
00:58:39,180 --> 00:58:41,680
Like there's a, there's something called like nicking, I guess.

1176
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,240
And I don't know what that is or what it does because I didn't really want to know.

1177
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,680
You know, some of this stuff is like, I don't want to know.

1178
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,400
But basically they're saying like, we take the worst possible scenario of the female

1179
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,040
version and compare it to the best possible version of the male version.

1180
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,600
So we're not really comparing apples to oranges here.

1181
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:01,760
When we're talking about is circumcision, male circumcision, is that genital mutilation?

1182
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,740
Well, it's certainly mutilating genitals.

1183
00:59:04,740 --> 00:59:09,800
If you look at the genitals as not being, you know, if normal is what you're born with

1184
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:16,520
standard issue and you're modifying it, then you could describe it as mutilation.

1185
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:17,520
Yeah.

1186
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:18,520
Right.

1187
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,360
Like, you know, like it's a part of it is to Mike, like I wanted to talk about this

1188
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:22,960
and I'm glad you brought it up.

1189
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:31,400
The way we're born is, and this isn't meant to be some huge philosophical gender affirming

1190
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:32,920
or denying or whatever.

1191
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,720
This is just like, as we're born, we're supposed to be able to survive.

1192
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,440
Look at any other creature on the planet, right?

1193
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:45,120
Like how they're born and sometimes, yes, sometimes as a, there's a calf have a medical

1194
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:50,440
issue that the farmer or somebody needs to correct so that they can live.

1195
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:56,600
Yes, of course, of course, you know, but by and large, like the majority of baby cows

1196
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,780
should be able to live on their own as they are.

1197
00:59:59,780 --> 01:00:00,780
And the same with humans.

1198
01:00:00,780 --> 01:00:01,780
I mean, so what?

1199
01:00:01,780 --> 01:00:02,780
We have tonsils.

1200
01:00:02,780 --> 01:00:03,780
What tonsils do?

1201
01:00:03,780 --> 01:00:04,780
Nobody knows.

1202
01:00:04,780 --> 01:00:06,200
I mean, I'm sure people know.

1203
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:07,200
I don't know.

1204
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,100
I know a lot of people get them out and they live just fine.

1205
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:10,120
What does the appendix do?

1206
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:11,120
I don't know.

1207
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:12,120
People get it out and it's fine.

1208
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,720
Like those are kind of like the two most common like things, right?

1209
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,400
I mean, I don't know about most common.

1210
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:20,800
I'm not a doctor, but you know, appendicitis and tonsil, tonsilloxamines, like those are

1211
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:22,160
kind of the things, right?

1212
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:23,160
They seem pretty common.

1213
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,040
I've heard of them at least.

1214
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:30,000
So you know, it's not like people are electively choosing to get those things out, but they

1215
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,680
don't necessarily serve a purpose, but you can live with them.

1216
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,640
You can live without them, you know, like gallbladders, spleens.

1217
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:37,640
I don't know.

1218
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,100
Like those things are kind of like extra organs from an evolutionary past.

1219
01:00:42,100 --> 01:00:46,400
Is the foreskin an evolutionary thing from the past that we don't need nowadays?

1220
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,120
I mean, we don't need it for sure, but do we not not need it?

1221
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:51,120
You know what I mean?

1222
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:52,400
Like, I mean, that's kind of the question.

1223
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,960
I mean, I think that it's just a cultural relic of the past.

1224
01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:05,160
And maybe I think a lot of the ancient prescriptions have origins that are bathed in mystery.

1225
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:12,880
You know, maybe it did serve a viable function for desert tribe people 2000 years ago or

1226
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,240
2500 years ago or 3000 years ago.

1227
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:17,600
Yeah, don't give water to the dead.

1228
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:18,600
Right.

1229
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:19,600
Exactly.

1230
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:21,540
They didn't exactly have access to water to bathe.

1231
01:01:21,540 --> 01:01:27,780
So maybe that was a factor, whereas like people indigenous to the United States had plenty

1232
01:01:27,780 --> 01:01:28,780
of water.

1233
01:01:28,780 --> 01:01:29,780
There's water everywhere around here.

1234
01:01:29,780 --> 01:01:36,040
So yeah, so it's like one of those things where like evolutionarily humans, almost sapiens,

1235
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:40,240
had a foreskin and evolutionarily we haven't got rid of it yet.

1236
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:41,240
Get rid of it yet.

1237
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:42,680
You know, like the same with the tonsils.

1238
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,520
Like you can totally get rid of your tonsils and you probably have a lot less problems

1239
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:46,920
in your life if you do.

1240
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:47,920
I'm not a doctor.

1241
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:48,920
Don't do that.

1242
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:55,080
You know, like they don't really serve an overabundant purpose in modern times and they

1243
01:01:55,080 --> 01:02:01,320
are more likely to cause issue in modern times than not, I guess, from what I've heard or

1244
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:02,320
what I feel.

1245
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:03,880
Like that's my feeling in my body.

1246
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:04,880
Like is that true?

1247
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:05,880
I don't know.

1248
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:06,880
It could be.

1249
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:07,880
Yeah, I have no idea.

1250
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:08,880
I still have my tonsils.

1251
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,840
So yeah, I still haven't had a need to cut them off.

1252
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:11,840
Yeah, I still have my gallbladder.

1253
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:12,840
I still have my spleen.

1254
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:13,840
I still have my appendix.

1255
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:14,840
Yeah, that too.

1256
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:15,840
I get that.

1257
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:19,840
But I feel like if there was anything that I want to get rid of, it would be my tonsils

1258
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,160
because they sound like problem things, right?

1259
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:26,200
And I just want, you know, like if health care and health insurance and money wasn't

1260
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,120
a thing, I'd be like, eh, you know, like I'm not doing anything this week.

1261
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:30,120
Like, why don't you take them out?

1262
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,840
But I also had my wisdom teeth out as an adult and that sucked dick.

1263
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,840
So maybe I wouldn't want them out, you know, because like it, but now they're gone.

1264
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:37,840
So like it's fine.

1265
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:38,840
But you know what I mean?

1266
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:40,560
Like it's one of those weird things.

1267
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:45,260
But going back to our previous, one of our previous episodes about tattoos and tanning

1268
01:02:45,260 --> 01:02:52,520
and ear piercings, if it's not a medical necessity, you know, so that, that law article that I,

1269
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:57,040
that I was referencing, they basically said like, if it's not a medical necessity, then

1270
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,640
any genital cutting, genital surgery is mutilation.

1271
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:07,720
I fall into the category of if it's not medically necessary, that is something that should be

1272
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:11,520
up to that individual once they are an adult.

1273
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:18,120
And I know that messes with certain religious groups, but other religious groups in the

1274
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:25,100
past have had to change their practices to comply with secular society.

1275
01:03:25,100 --> 01:03:27,240
So it's not unprecedented.

1276
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:28,240
Yeah.

1277
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:35,080
And the other thing is that, so Lutherans anyway, believe at baptism at birth, right?

1278
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:41,760
But the Baptists believe in baptism when the person is old enough to understand the covenant

1279
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:43,360
that they're entering with God.

1280
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:44,360
Yes.

1281
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,000
So that is a very drastic change.

1282
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:54,440
I know in Jewish culture, it is on the eighth day, they get their, their bris, their circumcision.

1283
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:59,960
I was told that, and there's some like pretty good like YouTube videos out there.

1284
01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:04,760
There's one, and I don't know if it was Simcha's friend or somebody else, but they were kind

1285
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:08,800
of doing like a impromptu song about the first time they were drunk was when they were eight

1286
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:14,280
days old, because in Jewish custom, they will take some wine and rub the baby's gums with

1287
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,640
wine so that they're kind of like drunk during the procedure.

1288
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,120
I mean, not drunk, but like, you know what I mean?

1289
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:26,400
It kind of the same as like the modern Northern Midwestern saying, oh yeah, my baby cried

1290
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,160
in the nineties or eighties.

1291
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:32,920
So I gave him a little bit of whiskey or rum and they called him and went to sleep.

1292
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:33,920
Yep.

1293
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:39,040
So, you know, but they rub wine on the gums and apparently the baby doesn't cry for more

1294
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,520
than like 10, 15 minutes during the ceremony.

1295
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,480
But you know, it's still like, maybe it is a better choice for an adult because it is

1296
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:46,480
irreversible.

1297
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:47,480
Right.

1298
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,640
This is my mentality, you know.

1299
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:54,000
I read, I read an article, maybe I didn't read an article, maybe I watched a video,

1300
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:59,920
but a Jewish rabbi had mouth herpes and he was doing these brises.

1301
01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:06,840
And I guess that in whatever subsect of Judaism that this rabbi was a member of, the pastor,

1302
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:11,040
the rabbi, like sucks the baby's dick after he cuts it.

1303
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:16,260
And he was spreading herpes to Jewish male children through this ritual.

1304
01:05:16,260 --> 01:05:19,040
And I don't think it was, it's like sucking, it's like kissing or whatever.

1305
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:23,120
I don't really know the details and I'm not going to pretend to know.

1306
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:24,920
Yeah, it's not a full on sexual act.

1307
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:26,560
No, it is not a sexual act.

1308
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:31,680
Because there's also something where if you have a newborn baby, don't let anybody kiss

1309
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:36,040
them because you can get like the cold sores, herpes or whatever, you know, like they could

1310
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,560
get that real easily because they don't have the immune system up for that.

1311
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,520
So I mean, there's definitely some scientific basis.

1312
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:48,440
I don't know about the whole like what they do, but you don't have to be a medical professional

1313
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:53,480
to perform a circumcision basically, as long as you have kind of the religious grounds

1314
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:54,480
to do it on, I guess.

1315
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:55,480
Right.

1316
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,200
Because I realize aren't medical doctors.

1317
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,760
No, no, they're not.

1318
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,880
Some probably are, but I don't think it's a requirement.

1319
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:04,880
It's not mutually exclusive.

1320
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:07,240
I'm just saying like most probably aren't.

1321
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:08,240
Right.

1322
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:13,160
And I know for a fact, because I read many stories about it, that in Minnesota, they

1323
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,880
wanted to ban female genital mutilation.

1324
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:23,160
And there was some pushback about that because the Somali population, that is not an uncommon

1325
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:27,080
thing in Somalia, and it came to a head.

1326
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,120
The Somali population in Minnesota is not an uncommon thing.

1327
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:31,120
Well, no, yeah.

1328
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:35,280
I mean, outside of Somalia, Minnesota is the largest group of Somalians.

1329
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,440
Yeah, it's kind of like their diaspora area.

1330
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,360
But I know that they were performing female genital mutilation.

1331
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,960
OK, not sure if they still are.

1332
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:48,520
But they were getting some hot water and somebody brought their child across state lines and

1333
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,560
did it in like Michigan or something.

1334
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:54,520
And it kind of blew up, and I'm against that entirely.

1335
01:06:54,520 --> 01:07:01,400
Unless it's an adult, again, like if your adult self wants to do something.

1336
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:02,400
Yeah.

1337
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,400
But there we go.

1338
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:07,800
Like age of consent is age of consent and we need to draw a line on where it is and

1339
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:08,800
follow it with everything.

1340
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:09,800
Yeah.

1341
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:11,440
And we talked about that with the previous episode, too.

1342
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:16,520
Like we don't really have a one specific age of consent because you got voting, which

1343
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:21,880
is less, which is more than legal age to drive, but less than legal age to smoke cigarettes

1344
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:25,280
and out less than legal age to drink alcohol.

1345
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,520
And the age of consent for sex.

1346
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:28,520
Yeah.

1347
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:29,520
Yeah.

1348
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:31,200
The age of consent for sex varies by state.

1349
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:32,200
It's not a national law.

1350
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:33,200
Some states is 16.

1351
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:35,000
Like Oklahoma is 16.

1352
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:36,440
Minnesota is 16.

1353
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,320
16 or 15 if their partner is 18.

1354
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:40,320
OK.

1355
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:41,320
Yeah.

1356
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,160
I mean, like, you know, some of that stuff seems like gross and icky, but some of it

1357
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:50,440
is like, well, if you're a high school senior who's 18 and you're dating like a sophomore

1358
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:52,680
who's 17, is that underage or not?

1359
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:56,520
Like, so some I mean, you know, some of the laws make sense because they just kind of

1360
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:57,520
have to.

1361
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:01,560
But, you know, in order to Caprio and you're dating a freshman in high school.

1362
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:02,560
Yeah, it's unwise.

1363
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:07,600
It's probably still OK because you're a Hollywood superstar and love Epstein Island.

1364
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:10,920
But, you know, for the rest of us, that's not OK.

1365
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:11,920
Right.

1366
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:12,920
Yeah.

1367
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:13,920
Life.

1368
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:14,920
There's a lot of great areas in life.

1369
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:16,160
There's a lot of great areas.

1370
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:22,120
I think, you know, I feel like circumcision should be up to the individual and not like

1371
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:27,220
like even if we're looking at it religious through a religious lens, like I know a lot

1372
01:08:27,220 --> 01:08:31,640
of religion stuff happens because the parents are like, I want my child to not go to hell.

1373
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,960
But that's not a good reason to do something for your child.

1374
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:34,960
Probably.

1375
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:39,760
I sympathize with the religious argument because people feel very sensitive about it.

1376
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:43,800
But in the United States, Muslim men are not allowed to have more than one wife.

1377
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:45,720
Mormons aren't allowed to have more than one wife.

1378
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:46,720
You know what I mean?

1379
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:47,720
Like we have these rules.

1380
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,720
You know, like I understand it.

1381
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:55,760
Like if you strongly believe in your religion that your child needs to be circumcised or

1382
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,240
they're going to hell, like I understand why you'd want to do it.

1383
01:08:58,240 --> 01:08:59,240
I do.

1384
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:00,240
I understand that.

1385
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:01,240
I understand that.

1386
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:02,240
I'm not trying to come at you.

1387
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,080
I'm just saying like I understand that.

1388
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:07,720
Part of it is you also have to understand that your child might not have the same religion

1389
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:08,720
as you.

1390
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,120
They might not have the same political viewpoint as you.

1391
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:12,800
They might not have the same social viewpoint as you.

1392
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:18,800
And at some point, I think this goes back and I have a lot of issues at work internally

1393
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:20,000
in my head, right?

1394
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,720
Because a lot of the managers are like, hey, I'm a leader.

1395
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,200
And I'm like, no, you're a manager.

1396
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:26,200
You're not a leader.

1397
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:27,520
Like manager does not equal leader.

1398
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:31,960
A leader's job is not to create followers, it's to create more leaders so you don't have

1399
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:32,960
as much work to do.

1400
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,880
Like you're supposed to hold people up so they can do for themselves what they should

1401
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:38,960
be able to do for themselves and lead more people.

1402
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:39,960
You know what I mean?

1403
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:40,960
Right.

1404
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:45,080
So I have this same mentality I have with parenting.

1405
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:47,220
You know, like, yeah, do I want to help my child?

1406
01:09:47,220 --> 01:09:49,880
Of course, all the time, as much help as I can give them.

1407
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:52,400
But sometimes the help I can give them is not helping them.

1408
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:56,360
You know, and it's a weird thing to say, but like if I know my child is capable of doing

1409
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:59,240
a certain thing, then I'm not going to do that thing for them.

1410
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:02,520
I'm going to help them do that thing or I'm going to make them do that thing or I'm going

1411
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:04,040
to like, you know what I mean?

1412
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:09,120
So like at some point, like you can't project these things or maybe, you know, maybe not

1413
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:14,400
I can't, but like I feel like people shouldn't project these things and say, I know my child

1414
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:17,000
wants a covenant with God at eight days old.

1415
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:18,000
Right.

1416
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:25,640
And it's not the same thing as baptism because rubbing some magic water and ashes and oil

1417
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:32,200
on a baby and saying some, you know, incantation does not affect them in any significant way

1418
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:33,520
in the long term.

1419
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:37,880
Or during times shooting them with a super soaker for the holy water.

1420
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:39,840
Yeah, right.

1421
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:42,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1422
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:49,000
I mean, you know, like I'm not, I'm not trying, so I'm not trying to like poop on you if you're,

1423
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,520
if you're religious and you circumcise your child and you do this and you do that, or

1424
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:53,820
if there's a medical reason.

1425
01:10:53,820 --> 01:10:58,040
But I think like my kind of general opinion is if you're doing it because it's a covenant

1426
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:05,280
with God, then the person giving up the most, AKA the foreskin, I guess, should be fully

1427
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,080
aware of the covenant that they're making.

1428
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:09,080
Right.

1429
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:12,400
Like I have a three year old, I could, I could go to her tomorrow and be like, Hey, will

1430
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,680
you promise to take care of daddy when daddy's pooping his pants?

1431
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:18,440
And she'd be like, Oh, I'd love to, that'd be the best.

1432
01:11:18,440 --> 01:11:19,880
But she's three, you know?

1433
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:24,240
And so for me, for me, when I'm, you know, 90, it's saying like, look, you promised it,

1434
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:25,520
you were three, you take care of me.

1435
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:26,520
And she's like, it's too much.

1436
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:27,520
I can't do it.

1437
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:28,520
Like, that's not fair.

1438
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:29,520
You know what I mean?

1439
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:30,520
Yeah.

1440
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:35,480
And again, it all goes back to what rights does an individual have and what rights do

1441
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:36,480
they not have?

1442
01:11:36,480 --> 01:11:37,480
You know, yeah.

1443
01:11:37,480 --> 01:11:42,360
And bodily, bodily autonomy to me seems pretty fucking important.

1444
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:47,120
And that goes, I think so pass this topic to like drug use and all sorts of other things

1445
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:50,240
that are not all encompassing in our society.

1446
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:51,240
Yeah.

1447
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:52,240
Yeah.

1448
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:57,880
Like I don't suggest anybody go out and start banging heroin, but I don't think that it

1449
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,240
should be illegal either.

1450
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:04,840
Like, yeah, I'm not recommending it, but if that's what you want to do, if you're, if

1451
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:09,960
you're an adult and you have all the relevant information about what's going on in the world

1452
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,400
with that topic, you should have the right to do it.

1453
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:16,160
Like, yeah, I mean, I guess I don't recommend a lot of things.

1454
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:17,160
Yeah.

1455
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:18,160
On one hand.

1456
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:24,000
And so I've read some studies that, you know, generally speaking, the poor communities don't

1457
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:31,160
get the same level of sex education in school that the less poor communities get.

1458
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:37,160
So it kind of feeds into the poor communities always have more kids and yada, yada, whatever.

1459
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,000
And we talked about like in our, is this term racist or not?

1460
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:41,520
Like the ghettos and stuff like that.

1461
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,960
And you know, ghetto is kind of sort of totally like a racist term, but they're not being

1462
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:47,120
taught the same thing.

1463
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,040
So and I'm not trying to nitpick.

1464
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:53,200
I'm just saying like when you're saying like, if they're an adult and if they have all the

1465
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:57,740
relevant information, then they can choose to do heroin, which is fine.

1466
01:12:57,740 --> 01:13:00,400
But like who's saying that they have all the relevant information?

1467
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:04,720
And I know like you can go to the library, everybody can go to the library, you get free

1468
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:08,620
internet access and you can look up heroin and you can learn all about it.

1469
01:13:08,620 --> 01:13:12,160
You know, and we've talked about this too, like on some level is a societal issue where

1470
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,820
we don't have that societal responsibility.

1471
01:13:14,820 --> 01:13:17,200
We don't have a unified thing.

1472
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:21,900
And you know, in Florida, where they don't want, at least initially, they didn't want

1473
01:13:21,900 --> 01:13:25,160
the teachers telling the kids about different sexualities.

1474
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:30,160
The presupposition was that the parents would then fill that role.

1475
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,840
But the truth is the parents are not filling that role.

1476
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:33,840
No.

1477
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:38,240
And if they are, a lot of times they're filling their children's head with things that are

1478
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:40,840
not scientifically accurate, right?

1479
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:42,380
Yes, exactly.

1480
01:13:42,380 --> 01:13:46,980
So that I mean, you know, like, but so I guess it's like, it's not limited to circumcision

1481
01:13:46,980 --> 01:13:51,020
and we're not trying to call call people out for religious reasons of circumcision.

1482
01:13:51,020 --> 01:13:56,380
But if we're trying to say that we want adults to make the choice, the law already says you

1483
01:13:56,380 --> 01:13:58,840
have to be 18 to get a tattoo.

1484
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:04,340
So I understand how anybody on the planet can say, we're going to circumcise you at

1485
01:14:04,340 --> 01:14:05,580
eight days old.

1486
01:14:05,580 --> 01:14:10,860
This isn't a religious, this isn't a religious, this is a legal, like as a society, this is

1487
01:14:10,860 --> 01:14:11,860
a legal thing.

1488
01:14:11,860 --> 01:14:13,720
I'm not saying as a religion, you shouldn't.

1489
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:18,560
I'm just saying like, legally in America, we say you have to be 18 to get a tattoo.

1490
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:21,220
Even if you have parental consent, you can't do it before 18.

1491
01:14:21,220 --> 01:14:22,220
Right.

1492
01:14:22,220 --> 01:14:26,460
And piercings, certain piercings, they do, they do allow people to pierce their children's

1493
01:14:26,460 --> 01:14:31,100
ears, but I don't think that they allow them to get piercings like more adult themed piercings.

1494
01:14:31,100 --> 01:14:32,340
Let's put it that way.

1495
01:14:32,340 --> 01:14:33,340
Yeah.

1496
01:14:33,340 --> 01:14:36,900
Well, we talked about this too, is like most ear piercing places won't do it before the

1497
01:14:36,900 --> 01:14:37,900
age of eight.

1498
01:14:37,900 --> 01:14:38,900
Sure.

1499
01:14:38,900 --> 01:14:45,140
A lot of them won't do it till they're adults, but you know, I mean, infant ear piercing

1500
01:14:45,140 --> 01:14:49,380
used to be a huge thing, but nowadays it's kind of fallen out of favor, at least legally

1501
01:14:49,380 --> 01:14:50,380
and whatnot.

1502
01:14:50,380 --> 01:14:56,500
So it's, I mean, I don't know, you know, I think I'd rather, honestly, I'd rather have

1503
01:14:56,500 --> 01:14:58,860
an ear piercing than my foreskin cut off, I guess.

1504
01:14:58,860 --> 01:14:59,860
Right.

1505
01:14:59,860 --> 01:15:00,860
You know what I mean?

1506
01:15:00,860 --> 01:15:01,860
Yeah.

1507
01:15:01,860 --> 01:15:02,860
It's less of a problem.

1508
01:15:02,860 --> 01:15:03,860
In the grand scheme of life.

1509
01:15:03,860 --> 01:15:04,860
Right.

1510
01:15:04,860 --> 01:15:07,100
I got my ears pierced when I was 18 or 19.

1511
01:15:07,100 --> 01:15:10,140
So my parents didn't force me to get it.

1512
01:15:10,140 --> 01:15:11,140
Yeah.

1513
01:15:11,140 --> 01:15:12,140
Well, I used to wear hoops.

1514
01:15:12,140 --> 01:15:16,700
I used to wear them all years ago when I got my first real job and it was frowned upon

1515
01:15:16,700 --> 01:15:17,700
by my employer.

1516
01:15:17,700 --> 01:15:20,380
Your long hair catches in them, right?

1517
01:15:20,380 --> 01:15:21,860
Didn't have long hair then either.

1518
01:15:21,860 --> 01:15:24,100
But your girlfriend did.

1519
01:15:24,100 --> 01:15:25,100
Hey-o.

1520
01:15:25,100 --> 01:15:26,100
Hey.

1521
01:15:26,100 --> 01:15:28,700
So my fingers are burning, man.

1522
01:15:28,700 --> 01:15:29,700
How about yours?

1523
01:15:29,700 --> 01:15:31,060
Yeah, I'm done.

1524
01:15:31,060 --> 01:15:32,060
I just got done.

1525
01:15:32,060 --> 01:15:33,060
Okay.

1526
01:15:33,060 --> 01:15:34,060
Yeah.

1527
01:15:34,060 --> 01:15:35,060
I'm like two puffs from being done.

1528
01:15:35,060 --> 01:15:36,340
This was like a really good cigar.

1529
01:15:36,340 --> 01:15:38,460
It was very, very consistent.

1530
01:15:38,460 --> 01:15:39,460
Yep.

1531
01:15:39,460 --> 01:15:40,460
It was consistent throughout.

1532
01:15:40,460 --> 01:15:41,460
All the way through.

1533
01:15:41,460 --> 01:15:43,060
From the first puff to the last puff.

1534
01:15:43,060 --> 01:15:44,060
Yep.

1535
01:15:44,060 --> 01:15:45,060
Very smooth.

1536
01:15:45,060 --> 01:15:46,060
Very smooth.

1537
01:15:46,060 --> 01:15:48,580
It wasn't mind blowing, but it was good.

1538
01:15:48,580 --> 01:15:50,980
It wasn't mind blowing, but I don't know.

1539
01:15:50,980 --> 01:15:52,100
What do these go for, Mike?

1540
01:15:52,100 --> 01:15:53,740
I don't know.

1541
01:15:53,740 --> 01:15:54,740
We'll have to look it up.

1542
01:15:54,740 --> 01:15:55,740
Google the show.

1543
01:15:55,740 --> 01:15:56,740
Yeah.

1544
01:15:56,740 --> 01:15:57,740
Google the show.

1545
01:15:57,740 --> 01:15:58,740
Somebody else can Google it.

1546
01:15:58,740 --> 01:16:03,220
I'm just saying like, you know, if you wanted something that was solid, this one was fairly

1547
01:16:03,220 --> 01:16:04,220
light.

1548
01:16:04,220 --> 01:16:05,220
It wasn't overpowering.

1549
01:16:05,220 --> 01:16:08,500
It was very, very nice.

1550
01:16:08,500 --> 01:16:09,500
This wouldn't be bad to have a box of.

1551
01:16:09,500 --> 01:16:10,500
You know what I mean?

1552
01:16:10,500 --> 01:16:12,820
Yeah, yeah, no, it's good.

1553
01:16:12,820 --> 01:16:15,820
So I'm bringing up AgeCigarInternational.com.

1554
01:16:15,820 --> 01:16:18,820
All right.

1555
01:16:18,820 --> 01:16:23,060
It's a semi-redditable site.

1556
01:16:23,060 --> 01:16:26,980
And you can get a box of five.

1557
01:16:26,980 --> 01:16:30,140
We had a Toro for those who want to know.

1558
01:16:30,140 --> 01:16:31,980
And they're 50 bucks for five.

1559
01:16:31,980 --> 01:16:33,460
So they're about 10 bucks a stick.

1560
01:16:33,460 --> 01:16:39,700
Probably 13 at your local store of choice, I'm going to guess, which is, you know, if

1561
01:16:39,700 --> 01:16:44,420
you're looking at a 15 ish dollar cigar, 13 ish dollar cigar, you're most likely going

1562
01:16:44,420 --> 01:16:45,420
to get a good one.

1563
01:16:45,420 --> 01:16:46,420
Yep.

1564
01:16:46,420 --> 01:16:48,700
So yeah, I know I got these always.

1565
01:16:48,700 --> 01:16:49,700
I get them on sale.

1566
01:16:49,700 --> 01:16:50,700
I don't know what I paid for them.

1567
01:16:50,700 --> 01:16:51,700
Oh, for sure.

1568
01:16:51,700 --> 01:16:52,700
I won't deny it.

1569
01:16:52,700 --> 01:16:53,700
Yeah, not a bad stick.

1570
01:16:53,700 --> 01:16:57,540
And this is a stick that I would not hesitate to give to somebody who was like, I want to

1571
01:16:57,540 --> 01:16:58,540
try a cigar.

1572
01:16:58,540 --> 01:16:59,540
I've never tried one before.

1573
01:16:59,540 --> 01:17:00,540
Oh, absolutely.

1574
01:17:00,540 --> 01:17:01,540
Yeah.

1575
01:17:01,540 --> 01:17:02,540
Very, very nice stick.

1576
01:17:02,540 --> 01:17:05,100
I think it's a good representation of what a cigar should be.

1577
01:17:05,100 --> 01:17:06,100
Yeah.

1578
01:17:06,100 --> 01:17:10,140
It's got a nice presentation with the little cedar wrapper.

1579
01:17:10,140 --> 01:17:11,140
Yep.

1580
01:17:11,140 --> 01:17:12,740
It's got good shelf appeal.

1581
01:17:12,740 --> 01:17:13,740
Yes.

1582
01:17:13,740 --> 01:17:17,100
Which is important in a luxury product like this, for sure.

1583
01:17:17,100 --> 01:17:18,100
Yes.

1584
01:17:18,100 --> 01:17:19,100
Yes.

1585
01:17:19,100 --> 01:17:24,980
So anyway, I hope we gave you shed some light on circumcision.

1586
01:17:24,980 --> 01:17:30,540
Kind of a difficult topic to talk about as two dudes, but maybe no more difficult.

1587
01:17:30,540 --> 01:17:31,940
I don't think it was.

1588
01:17:31,940 --> 01:17:34,220
I think it's perfect that it was two dudes.

1589
01:17:34,220 --> 01:17:36,180
I like the history of it.

1590
01:17:36,180 --> 01:17:38,180
It gives context to American.

1591
01:17:38,180 --> 01:17:45,300
Yeah, it started out as a class thing, priests and things, and showing their ultimate devotion

1592
01:17:45,300 --> 01:17:49,580
to their god and cleanliness and things like that.

1593
01:17:49,580 --> 01:17:56,780
So I guess even from ancient times, 3000 some BC, foreskin was kind of seen as maybe dirty

1594
01:17:56,780 --> 01:17:59,700
or more peasant class or something.

1595
01:17:59,700 --> 01:18:00,700
Oh, sure.

1596
01:18:00,700 --> 01:18:05,260
I mean, if you were a peasant, you certainly couldn't get that procedure done safely.

1597
01:18:05,260 --> 01:18:06,260
No.

1598
01:18:06,260 --> 01:18:10,740
And I feel like maybe the class thing was the most interesting thing I came across in

1599
01:18:10,740 --> 01:18:15,100
the entirety of my research was it was kind of a class thing.

1600
01:18:15,100 --> 01:18:19,860
And even in America, there's kind of a class thing where it's like upper middle class people

1601
01:18:19,860 --> 01:18:25,140
get circumcision under the guise of religion, but it's kind of really a class thing and

1602
01:18:25,140 --> 01:18:27,300
not so much a religious thing.

1603
01:18:27,300 --> 01:18:31,540
Catholics don't really care according to their tenants, but a lot of Lutherans do because

1604
01:18:31,540 --> 01:18:33,820
a lot of Lutherans are upper middle class.

1605
01:18:33,820 --> 01:18:34,820
Right.

1606
01:18:34,820 --> 01:18:37,260
And a lot of Catholics do not.

1607
01:18:37,260 --> 01:18:43,380
And that's also a class thing because of the historical anti-Semitism of the Catholic Church,

1608
01:18:43,380 --> 01:18:44,380
I think.

1609
01:18:44,380 --> 01:18:45,380
That's my opinion.

1610
01:18:45,380 --> 01:18:52,520
So I think that was my biggest takeaway from all of my research was it was maybe more class

1611
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:54,940
than anything to do with medicine or religion necessarily.

1612
01:18:54,940 --> 01:18:55,940
Right.

1613
01:18:55,940 --> 01:19:00,500
And I think that was kind of done under the guise or excuse of religion, but it had more

1614
01:19:00,500 --> 01:19:01,940
to do with class.

1615
01:19:01,940 --> 01:19:02,940
True.

1616
01:19:02,940 --> 01:19:03,940
Makes sense.

1617
01:19:03,940 --> 01:19:08,420
So once again, it comes down to economic status and class.

1618
01:19:08,420 --> 01:19:10,180
As most things do in life.

1619
01:19:10,180 --> 01:19:13,340
It seems to be a uniting factor.

1620
01:19:13,340 --> 01:19:15,020
Indeed.

1621
01:19:15,020 --> 01:19:16,700
So that's it for this episode.

1622
01:19:16,700 --> 01:19:17,700
See you next week.

1623
01:19:17,700 --> 01:19:18,700
Yes.

1624
01:19:18,700 --> 01:19:19,700
Be safe.

1625
01:19:19,700 --> 01:19:28,120
I will talk to you soon.