Welcome back to the Buffalo Bread Podcast. This
is our Friends of the Pod annual extravaganza
where we talk to all of our buddies who have
allegiances to different AFC's teams and tonight
we're finishing the cycle with Jared and his
JETS JETS JETS JETS. Yay. Jared, why don't you
kick us off and for anybody who's new to the
podcast. Um, in this space and, and, and, you
know, across all kinds of listening platforms,
um, how, how did your Jets fandom begin? Where
did you, you know, where did you jump on, um,
the Jets bandwagon and, and, and talk, walk us
through it? Yeah. So my parents are originally
from the suburbs of Washington, DC. So when we
moved as a family of Jewish people to Long Island,
New York, the only rule that was really in place
were you can't be Giants fans. Okay, um, so I
thought the Jets were cool and then When I was
a kid the Jets seemed to like and it's funny
because this is still their MO, you know 35 years
later They were never good, but they always had
really cool players with incredible upside that
were fun to follow so like you know the New York
SAC exchange begets the Bill Parcells era and
you know the the career resurgence of Vinnie
Testaverde and Wayne Krabett and Keyshawn Johnson
and Curtis Martin and how much fun that was to
follow. And then, you know, the sticking point
for the Jets was always great running game, great
scheming, great defense, which, you know, as
my love of sports kind of evolved in any sport
that I was into, it was similar to the Jets philosophy,
even if it wasn't football. So that was where
it started. And then, you know, then something
went terribly wrong in the 2000s. And we haven't
really gotten back yet. Yeah, that's true. Oh,
my God. That's amazing. As a child at the peak
of Vinnie Testaverde's power, I always just thought
of him as like the ex -athlete uncle. Like, that's
just what he looked like, right? Like, he was
always like your Italian uncle who, like, you
know, used to play college ball. Like, that's
what he just lives that. Absolutely. It's so
funny you just said that because what Vinnie
Testaverde taught me, and I do not mean this
as a backhanded compliment, I mean this sincerely,
and we're learning this to Harvey right now with
Aaron Rodgers, you do not need an all -universe
quarterback to be a very successful professional
football franchise. You can run the ball well,
you can make good decisions, you can be a game
manager, you can have good defense. I'm very
into that. Well, especially in that era of Jets
football, too. I mean, not just Testa Verde,
but you guys had you guys had come through there
like Chad Pennington, too, right? I mean, perfect
example of that kind of stuff. So, yeah. Oh,
God, your your love of the Jets and your knowledge
of the Jets runs so deep, Jared. And for those
of you who have never listened to a Jared featuring
podcast, we're about to get what can only be
described as like, the greatest therapy couch
session of all time. That is what is about to
happen. Buckle up, everybody, because it's about
to get real. All right. So, Jared, let's just
hop right in, man, because I know you're already
warmed up. I know you're raring to go on this.
Let's start before we hop into the now. And the
now that we're in is we're about four days or
so into the free agency period. The league year
officially started yesterday. The Jets have already
made some moves for 2025. But before we go there,
Let's look back a little bit on 2024. And I got
to give you props, because in all of our off
-season pods last year, you kind of called this
perfect. I called every moment of this. Did I
not? I mean, this team flows through your veins,
and you just knew on a cosmic level what was
going to happen last season, and you nailed it.
The solid firing, the Douglas Turmoil unfiring,
Aaron Rodgers absolutely tanking. We brought
you in mid -season at one point. just to kind
of talk about what we were seeing from the Jets,
but I think the most surprising part for me was
the decline of the defense. And I understand
that Salah had his fingerprints all over that,
but I didn't think I was prepared for the decline
that happened so quickly when Ulbricht took over,
because even though now he had those CEO head
coach responsibilities, there was still loads
of talent on that squad. And based on that alone,
they were a tough matchup for a lot of teams
week in and week out. But it just didn't seem
like they had the want to or they had the juice.
And as a result, it was a very disappointing
division finish. You guys finished 0 -2 against
the Bills last season. After many predicted you
guys would actually win the division. So Jared,
overall, what were your thoughts on the 2024
season? Some positives maybe, but then, you know,
definitely some negatives too. I think... Uh,
it's, it's really, really important for, I think
the average, and I'm putting this in air quotes,
like the average fan of sports to remember how
important the actual locker room culture of a
franchise is to the success of a franchise. And
without getting too inside baseball, I will say
this because at least you two know about this.
I coached college basketball for 15 years. Whenever
I'm clear to do so again, I hope I can get right
back into that fray. The most disappointing year
of my professional career was the year my team
was picked to have the best finish preseason.
And what I learned was that I, at that age as
a coach, and some of my players, as young leaders,
were not prepared to carry the weight of being
everybody else's target. And even if your team
was in turmoil, and even if your locker room
was struggling, everyone else that played you
wanted to haste you up and down the court because
of all this attention, good or bad, that you
were getting and taking away from them. So the
Jets to me had a lot of really good learning
experiences that even though I'm not truly looking
forward to this year, I can already tell even
early in the off season, they're learning, which
is all you can ask for. But the things they are
learning is you do not win football games in
the media room. You do not win football games
at press conferences, and you do not win football
games by making bold proclamations about promises
that you cannot keep. So, you know, the thing
that really stands out to me is two weeks ago
when the anonymous, excuse me, anonymous polling
of the players comes out and the Jets get voted
the worst franchise in the NFL, even internally
in terms of their operations. That to me, more
than any actual you know, workout component,
scheming component, anything is why the Jets
regress defensively. That culture was toxic.
I think the vibe in the locker room was, we're
not as good as we think we are. We got real problems
that we need to sort out. You're watching the
franchise implode in front of you. And I think
the person in the craziest way ever, the person
who comes out of this looking the best, weirdly,
is Robert Sala. He goes... Right back to being
a defensive coordinator. He gets hired mid -season
by a new team. So, like, the immediate feedback
was like, no, you know what you're doing. You
come with us. He goes to Green Bay in an Aaron
Rodgers, like, troll move as a consultant. And
now he's back, I think, at a place that really
loves him in San Francisco. Like, the players,
yeah, they love him there. The day the off -season
started. Yes. They love him there. I was talking
to somebody I know who's a die -hard 49ers fan.
He was elated. He was like, I'm so happy Salah's
back. The defense is going to be back to the
mid -2015s when it absolutely lights out under
Salah. That defense, and it was so clear, they've
been trying to replace Salah as a coordinator
ever since he left. I think Shanahan's gone through
three or four different coordinators on the time
Salah's been gone. And that defense just lost
their identity when he left. So he's back. I
think he's in a much better situation right now.
But Jared, hopefully your Jets for the 2025 season
are going to be in a much better situation, too.
You guys do have some resources to work with.
You got some draft capital and you've already
made some free agent moves, too. JJ, why don't
you set up the 2025 season for our good friend
Jared here so we can let him cook a little bit.
Oh, boy. Yes, so. You have $37 million in cap
space, eight total draft picks, including three
in the top 100. And we need from you, after considering
that, your top three priorities for 2025. So
the very first priority, I want to actually echo
NewJet's DM, Darren Moohy, who says on the day
that he and Aaron Glenn are introduced, our priorities
are to draft well, trade up for talent that we
really want if we think we need to develop young
talent and keep them here. We are not going to
be like the thing you need to know about us is
we are not going to be a we're going to make
free agent splashes right now. That's not where
we are as a franchise. So priority number one
for me is do that. You know, Dan and I had already
spoken that this is not a skill position heavy
draft. once you get out of three or four names
in the first round that probably aren't going
to fall the number seven anyway. And I think
between signing Justin Fields, which we'll talk
more about in a moment, and committing to some
what I'll call B -level defensive free agents
that are young and maybe looking for an opportunity
to grow and develop in a new system, I think
you've already made your messaging pretty clear.
We're punting on key skill positions. We're going
to draft defense. We're going to draft key offensive
line positions, and we're going to develop what
we have. So that's thing number one for me. Thing
number two for me is I think Aaron Glenn is the
perfect candidate for the Jets right now. Not
only is he truly one of the best football players
in the history of that franchise, multi -time
pro bowler, all decade team member, and a great
defensive back, who will be mentoring a group
that desperately needs that mentorship, right?
He also is coming from, in my opinion, the best
coached, that doesn't mean the best team, but
the best coached franchise in the NFL. Incredibly
innovative offense, hard nose, high risk, high
reward defense, but more importantly, as I was
mentioning earlier to you, Dan, a franchise that
over the last five years has developed an ethos
of leadership and buy -in amongst the locker
room. Right? So key number two is Aaron Glenn
is going to try his damnedest to make the Jets
a, you know, New York conversion of the Detroit
Lions. And now that brings me to part three.
Take what you have and let those pieces cook.
And I think the signing of Justin Fields is Outstanding,
outstanding, outstanding, outstanding. A, you
take all the pressure off yourself from drafting
Kam Ward or Shador Sanders. And I don't think
either of them are actually going to be sustainably
good. I do not like either of their upside. Part
two of that is you immediately go out and you
secure Justin Fields' center from college. I'm
drawing a blank on his name right now. I want
to look really quick. Josh Myers from the Green
Bay Packers. Then you reunite him with his favorite
target in college, Garrett Wilson. And Garrett
Wilson, who basically says to the executives,
I need you to give me the ball twice as much
as you did last season. The immediate offseason
response is, cool, got you. Here's your dude.
He'll give you the ball as much as you want.
And finally, the last thing that the Detroit
Lions had on the offensive side of the ball.
a two -headed running back attack that played
selflessly, did not care about one another's
metrics and touches, and, in my opinion, could
have made a Super Bowl run had one of them not
gotten hurt. And now we're looking at Reese Hall,
who's already proven that he could be a guy,
and Braylon Allen, who, in my opinion, was the
brightest spot in a dark year for the Jets last
year. So... You have a lot of pieces there if
the ethos is and this is clearly the messaging
Like I'm not I don't like last year when I told
you the Jets were gonna suck I think it was a
bit more surprising right this year. It's pretty
clear already Right. This is not the Super Bowl
year, right? So if it's not gonna be the year
let these pieces cook and see who's actually
gonna be most worth developing in the long run
because you know quickly bringing back that fandom
in the 90s, JJ. What if Justin Fields is the
next, like, lost veteran who comes in and just
becomes this, like, I only need to pass 25 times
a game, but I can use my wheels and I can make
plays happen and I can manage. And I truly can
see that in this year's team. It's great points,
and I think that you're right. We can know from
being NFL fans that I can't think of a team that
bought its way to a championship. I can think
of teams who traded and bartered their way to
a championship by selling away their future.
The Rams a couple of years ago come to mind.
Exactly the Rams. That's the exact team I was
thinking of. But for the most part, the only
way to build a championship roster is to literally
draft, develop, and resign. That's it. We know
that for decades now. You have to get the QB
and then you have to draft and develop and resign.
You cannot buy yourself through free agency because
it's just the free agent. system is built for
players to get their giant payday, and it's not
an unreasonable thing to see that after people
are making, you know, hundreds of millions of
dollars, the desire kind of falls out of some
guys. It takes a special character to still put
in the incredible hours once you know your generational
wealth is secured. And so I have a couple of
re -signings to ask you about, Jared, because
I'm not as familiar with these players. One aside,
Braylon Allen was my, like, draft crush running
back last year. I wanted so badly for the Bills
to get him, because just the way he churns up
yards, he's like a bigger, better -built Isaiah
Pacheco before Isaiah Pacheco got hurt. And he
punishes the ground for daring to be in front
of him, and I just love that about the way he
runs. Don't you just love big -legged running
backs like that that just run angry? Thick tanks,
absolutely. But anyway. Aside from that, the
team re -signed Jamie and Sherwood to a big deal.
This is one of their biggest, apart from Justin
Fields and Brandon Stevens, we'll talk about
in a moment. One of their biggest deals, they
re -signed Jamie and Sherwood. Tell me about
that player. Do you think that's a good investment?
He's the QB of the defense. I think that what
people thought Mosley was for them, Sherwood
is. And again, history, right? When I think about
the two franchises in the NFL that cannot escape
their fates, I think of the Chicago Bears and
the New York Jets. And whereas the Chicago Bears
kind of were like, we've never done it with offensive
skill positions. We got to do it a different
way. What do the Jets always, always, always
have? They always have crazy middle or off -ball
linebacker that quarterbacks the defense, whether
it was the David Harris or Bart Scott regime,
whether it was Brian Cox, the generation before
that. they always have someone facilitating the
defense that is that, to your point, JJ, the
spiritual, emotional leader where you can give
them all the money in the world and they still
just want to go out and be a dominant defense.
Given how little room they really have to cook
because of what they did to themselves trying
to be, we're going to buy everybody to win the
Super Bowl, I think they're doing the correct
thing with that signing, which is, again, going
back to the new GM's ethos, This is a guy we
want to retain that will help us develop. And
if that results, like if, if that's the only
key thing you can do. Right. And you can't do
anything else because you want to sure up. Maybe
sauce Gardner has a better year rebounds. You
want to give him a better contract next season.
Same with Garrett Wilson. Same with any of these
other young players coming into contract years.
I'd rather make the savings now in year one of
a throwaway year. Sure. No, that makes sense.
And. The earlier you sign a player, the cheaper
it's gonna be, no matter what, always, right?
Didn't get the market an opportunity to speak.
Exactly, and then Jauman Davis on the edge. Tell
me about this guy. I'm less enthused, but I get
it. So this is now where we get to the point
where I don't have the exact figure, but I know
it's less than $400 ,000. So the Jets are rolling
over the lowest amount of cap availability in
all of football from last season to this season.
So not only do you have to clean up this really
like generational mess that you've made. But
you also don't really have the financial wiggle
room to kind of give you a shot of adrenaline
to start that process off. So what we're seeing,
and you know, I don't want to insult these people,
but we're seeing people that if we were to judge
their careers to this point, they're 27 or younger.
They have been serviceable, whether it's been
wrong fit, not enough development. And, you know,
these are all C minus to B minus acquisitions
that are not of substantial risk to you because
you're not paying a lot of money. Jamin Davis
is in that category, JJ. I also think that safety
Isaiah Oliver is in that category. I also think
that Brandon Stevens from the Ravens is in that
category because you want to think to yourself,
oh, Ravens, that's right. They're like the best
defense ever. But last year they weren't. And
last year he was very, very inconsistent in the
backfield. The biggest problem I think the Jets
are going to have this year is defensive back.
They lose literally all of their safeties, right?
So now you have to plug and play. The only remaining
key defensive back is Saas Gardner who, you know,
cycling back to our discussions this time last
year, we were kind of in agreement like maybe
he's not the shutdown corner we all think. And
I think... He didn't necessarily regress as much
as it was exposed that he's still got a lot of
work to do once holding penalties get called
on him. Yeah. Once, once the refs decide that
they're going to, you know, make it a point and
emphasis again, to get on the handsy CBs in a
game. Sauce's game was shut down this year. I
like, I like to think it was the highlight reel
we put on Instagram of all of sauce gardener
Gardner's holds that really awaken the NFL to
this. this travesty and injustice of misplay
calls. So I'm visualizing, visualizing Ed Hockley
in the middle of a stressful weightlifting workout,
watching your video on Instagram and calling
up his son and be like, Buffalo bread. Oh my
God. I got to call Sean. Yeah. We gotta get them
on this. Also, apparently, we were wrong on the
spot of the ball in the AFC Championship game.
They were wrong on all of the spots of the ball.
We haven't had a chance to talk about this, JJ.
All the spots were bad. The Kade spot before...
Okay, sorry. Go, okay. Jared, sorry. This is
Jets time. My bad. This is Jets time. We're back
to it. Listen, I think I'm a bad Jets season
away from just becoming a Bills fan, so we can
talk about this all you want. You'd be welcome
here, sir. You'd be welcome here. Bar Bill on
me anytime. Let's go. Yeah, the amazing thing
about it is like, the day you actually decide
that in your heart, when you open the fridge,
there'll just be a container full of a dozen
hot wings and blue cheese. Like, it just happens.
It just manifests. It's amazing. People don't
realize it. It's like a miracle that happens
all the time. I'm visualizing, like, Fievel goes
west from my childhood. Like, what's on the other
side of Bill's fandom? The streets are paved
with blue cheese. Yeah, here we go. Oh, my God.
Yes. Hey. Um, okay. Then let's, let's talk, you
know, Jared, I want to hear about, um, uh, Justin
Fields. I mean, you mentioned his running ability,
his like multi -factor, you know, attack method,
the fact that you're reuniting him with Garry
Wilson. Got his center in town. Like this is,
this is to me, looking at the Jets off season
is like the way they should have done it. but
it was like they did it bizarro version with
Aaron Rodgers. They're like, oh, we're going
to get Aaron Rodgers and Alan Lazard and like
his terrible offensive coordinator, Nathaniel
Hackett. And we're going to, we're going to just
keep bringing all of this trash into the, into
the room and throw giant gobs of money at it.
And that's going to fix everything. This, this
off season, I'm like, oh, this is a rational,
reasonable approach to having a tight cap, cleaning
up messes and trying to focus on assembling a
team through the draft. Like, this is what this
is supposed to look like. Of any sport, JJ, I
have always felt that winning NFL teams are the
ones that most similarly echo a college ethos.
The NBA is such a different sport than college
basketball. Major league baseball is, you know,
completely different than any other sport out
there, especially because of the way that skill
positions are defined and the way the money goes.
even in the NHL, you know, the way that they
draft and then develop people through two different
farm systems. The thing that has always stuck
out to me with NFL programs are NFL franchises
are always culture oriented. The teams with the
most consistent cultures always do the best.
And for a sport that truly, I mean, the NFL as
we know it is not super old, right? We're not
old, and we've lived through more than half of
the NFL's history. That's pretty wild, right?
So when I think about that, I see a league where
we have seen time and time again teams with megastars
crumble in the playoffs because they didn't have
the culture, right? So, JJ, to your point, they're
doing this the right way. Where I think it's
going to be most interesting is with Justin Fields.
I think back about a month ago to the New York
Post reporting that the Jets essentially gave
an ultimatum to Aaron Rodgers that was essentially
like, you're either going to behave like a cultural
leader or we're not going to keep you. And then
according to the reporting, Rodgers was like,
I'm ready to do it. And Aaron Glenn was like,
I'm not sure I buy it. And you know, now let's
take that exact messaging, right? and let's put
it on a guy who's in his early to mid -20s, who,
like, if I were Justin Fields, I wouldn't know
what to make of my own career. I nearly lead
the Chicago Bears to the postseason in my rookie
year, and then the Bears want to get rid of me,
except all of the Bears supporters are like,
this is my guy. So, like, so he's probably chopping
at the bit. to have an opportunity to lead. He
goes to Pittsburgh, they start with a winning
record, and they bench him, and they don't let
him run. And they don't, like, he doesn't look
like himself out there. And then all of a sudden,
like, he's literally glorified Tim Tebow. They
have him going in for H -back packages. And,
you know, so I bet you, if you're Aaron Glenn,
and you say everything to Justin Fields that
Aaron Rodgers was on the fence about, Justin
Fields goes, yes, let's go, I'm in. Give me a,
give me a shot here. This feels like, this feels
like the Jets opportunity to finally be the landing
spot for the cast off quarterback. The Jets this
year could be Minnesota with Darnold. They could
be the Seahawks with Geno Smith. Oh wait, those
were both, both also Jets. Both rehabbed just
quarterbacks. Yes. But like, that's what I mean
is to your point. Culture, it comes first because
that was situations where the team was not about
development players. Like there's a lot of people
in the media space who say that the Jets franchise
for the past 15 to 20 years has been one of the
worst at developing young talent and maintaining
them and like building a roster in that way.
And that I think has been evident and hopefully
this for your sake and your franchise sake is
the turnaround. My only question about airing
Glenn, and you may be able to answer this. What
particular body part is he gonna recommend they
bite during his press conference? Preseason because
we know that's how he he's gonna bring the culture
like that's part of it. Well, you know if you
acknowledge Jet's history you have to lean towards
feet. Okay, but It's not if you know, you know
No, I think but like but you know, it's funny
let's Even considering that, and I'm sorry, so
those who do know, I'm sorry. Jesus, it's like
burned in my brain now, thank you. Yeah, don't
worry. Did you know Aaron Glenn also has a Mark
Sanchez tattoo, but nobody knows why and you
can't ask him about it? Oh my God, so many people
are gonna be Googling feet in the New York Jets
after this podcast. It's okay, it's okay. The
good news is I'm saving all of my Brett Favre
stuff. Jesus. So for me, I think that young quarterback
with a lot to prove and a chip on his shoulder,
this is the reason why I like this so much. If
you were to ask me, what if it doesn't work out?
I would shrug my shoulders at you and say, I
didn't want to draft a quarterback this year
anyway. And we'll draft a quarterback next season
where there's going to be more skilled players
in the draft. Like, cool, if you're already using
this year as a developmental year, why not do
this? Why not take a fire on this guy who has,
I mean, his evals out of the draft were better
than any of these quarterbacks that the Jets
have botched. So why not? Fields was one of my
favorite QBs coming out of that draft, and I...
I maintain to this day that the Bears did nothing
to build around him. Absolutely nothing. I think
this is a great opportunity for him because unlike
Pittsburgh, the Jets actually want him. And yes,
I think the 10 million extra dollars they guaranteed
him had a factor in him going from Pittsburgh
to the Jets. But I think more is the money and
the pitch that they made showed that they cared
about him. They cared about his development.
and that they actually had a place for him on
the team. Even last season, I think in hindsight
being what it is, he was always gonna be a placeholder
for an absolutely cooked Russell Wilson. That
was always going to be the plan. And I don't
think they utilized him properly in Pittsburgh,
but I also think it was an absolute confident
shot for him as well. And I think, yeah, and
this doesn't happen with many players, but I
think he can rebuild his confidence going to
the Jets. because with the right coach and an
organization that has shown that they want him
and that they're going to allow him to take his
lumps. And it's also a signal that we are not
going to potentially not going to draft like
a Shador Sanders, a Cam Ward, a Jackson Dart
with one of our top picks. Like it's going to
be you this season, dude. And we're going to
support you in that development. I just think
it's a great for a great foot or a potentially
great football player. and it's exactly the right
move for the Jets. It raises the floor of that
offense with both his throwing ability, but more
importantly, his mobility, too. You're in a division
where defenses have a problem defending mobile
QBs, the Bills chief among them. You add that
wrinkle to the offense, it may not win you the
division, but, damn, it's gonna make things a
lot closer, and it's gonna keep that offense
on the field longer than Aaron Rodgers or Zach
Wilson could these past couple years. So, Jared
Mann, I think that's great. All right. We are
coming, sadly, to the end of our time with you,
but we cannot let you leave without getting some
of the ultimately almost always 100 % right Jared
Hot takes. So we're gonna go lightning round
with this. We got five takes for you, and we're
gonna do our best to keep it within five minutes.
So one minute per take. All right. I can do that.
Let's go. All right. I'm gonna take the first
couple, and then, JJ, you wanna bring up with
the last three? Yep. You good with that? We'll
do. Yep. All right. So the Jets make the playoffs
if... blank happens. No pressure when I say this.
Justin Fields sneaks his way into the Pearl Bowl
as a quarterback and just becomes a passing,
rushing, dual threat. Nice. I like it. I like
that a lot. I think a lot of it's going to hinge
around him. Jared, does the defense under Aaron
Glenn rebound this year? This is where I'm going
to make up for lost time. Yes. Nice. So why are
you so confident about it? Because you do have
some holes on the roster, and Glenn is going
to take more of a probably a man -based approach
with his DBs. And you've got Sauce, but you really
don't have a lot of other man DBs on that squad.
So what makes you so confident that you guys
are going to be able to rebound this year? I
don't think I've had as much confidence as an
incoming coach as I have in Aaron Glenn after
seeing what he did with the Lions last year.
So if the Lions get to go to the second round
of the playoffs, literally with 12 defensive
players in your reserve, right? He's playing
a second unit in almost every position of that
defense. If that's what he has to work with with
the Jets, we're going to be okay. And again,
we speak to the culture thing. I think very intentionally,
he has brought in his first free agent acquisitions,
aside from Justin Fields, a lot of young guys
who he's basically saying, put your trust in
me. I'm going to give you your shot. And his
body of work is, I just did that with the second
string defense. I'm all in on his defense. Love
that confidence. And this segues beautifully
to JJ's question. I love that optimism, too.
And my question is, Aaron Glenn is a Coach of
the Year candidate if this happens? If the offense
can match what I think he's capable of doing
defensively. And I think the big question mark
here is their new GM, is a quarterback. I'm putting
it in air quotes. He did play in the NFL, right?
That's not an easy thing to do. But, you know,
like a cup of coffee in the NFL versus I'm John
Elway kind of thing. Right. So, you know, that's
piece one. Piece two is there's a lot of young
and unproven pieces, which you both have mentioned.
So, you know, he really can only be as good as
his unproven offensive coordinating team. And
I think we know what he wants to do, but the
difference between wanting to do it and actually
doing it is gonna be how well Justin Fields can
perform and how consistently some, for lack of
a better word, mercurial young offensive players
have handled themselves over the last two seasons.
Well said. I like it. And don't worry, don't
stress too much about your time. You're doing
fine. And my last two questions should be quick
ones. So I've got like a tangent for one beat.
Which unit offense or defense do you think is
going to be better for the Jets and give us quick?
Anticipated rankings of them within the league.
So like defense is a top 15 offenses bottom,
you know bottom third whatever you believe it's
gonna be I Think the defense will be better than
the offense But I think that we're gonna get
some throwback Jets figures and I think even
if the offense is middle of the pack like I can
see a top 12 or better defense. I can't see a
better than 18 offense, but I can see a top 10
or better running game. And the biggest thing
that Aaron Rodgers did, and this is, you have
to remember this, Aaron Rodgers was responsible
for tanking the rushing game of the Jets last
season because of how many calls out of runs
at the line of scrimmage happened. The year before,
Reese Hall was getting 25 plus touches between
handoffs and dump passes. Unproven Justin Field
with check down routes to Breece Hall and, and
Allen behind him. Like, yeah, this is. That's
good. Yeah. Run heavy is my guess. Yeah. So a
bottom half ranked offense, but the rushing attack
is going to be a premier. Yeah. Premier feature.
That's spicy. I can see that happening. Yeah,
I like that. All right. So my last two. This
is true faults, easy, quick. Justin Fields is
a top 15 QB in the NFL. True or false? Not yet.
Top 15. Not yet. Okay. He's not top 15. Do you
believe that this is a season after which he
could be considered in that kind of ranking?
100%. Okay. I think so much of modern quarterbacking
is how your team uses you. True. Yeah. Smart.
All right. Last one. Final lightning round take.
Justin Fields is the blank best QB in the AFC
East. So we're asking you to rank within the
AFC East for presumed starters Where does he
where does he land? Right now unfortunately right
now, unfortunately, he's fourth of four. Okay
alone, but I Think that's subject to change.
I mean we to it. We never know with to know and
You know, it's funny. I I'm high on what the
Patriots can do with variable But again, it comes
down to, you know, how variable decides to use
and someone who actually plays an awful lot like
Justin Fields. So, you know, we'll see. But four
for now and subject to change. But again, and
I think this is the most important thing. As
history has proven with the Jets, Justin Fields
doesn't need to be one or even two of four for
the Jets to be a very successful franchise. Joe
Flacco has a Super Bowl ring. That's what I always
say. Trent Dofer's got one, right? Whenever anyone's
like, you know, can a game manager win the whole
damn thing? Yes, absolutely. Nick Foles has one.
I mean, let's just run down the list, right?
Well, and I have to say, we started, I was just,
I glanced at the recording time. We started at
30 minutes and like five seconds, and we finished
at exactly 35 in five seconds. You did a perfect
lightning round, even with a bonus. I appreciate
that. I can't wait for the fridge magnet. I'm
sure it's in the mail. Absolutely. Absolutely
is. Jared, as always, man, thank you for joining
us. Your insights into the Jets at any point
in the season, off -season, post -season, during
the season, excellent. We appreciate it, sir.
Thank you very much for your time, and we'll
be bringing you back soon for our AFC East mock
draft. We're looking forward to it, all right?
Thanks for having me, and of course, Aaron Rodgers,
I'll see you now. That's the best way to finish.
That's great. We're not even gonna do a go Bills.
It's just gonna be Aaron Rodgers going to hell.
Awesome. Have a good one, sir. All right. Welcome
back to the Buffalo Bread podcast. We have our
off season extravaganza setting the stage for
what we want the Bills to do in the off season.
Given that we are now on the second day of the
new league year, we have some free agency moves
that have been made. We have some very significant
and some less significant contracts to discuss.
Dan, how we doing? Doing good, sir. Glad to be
talking Buffalo Bills football again on the pod.
For those of you who are just joining us, please
do not skip the Friends of the Pod episode that
is the lead -in to this one with our good friend
Jared, our resident Jets expert. As always, he
is bringing the knowledge and the heat about
the Jets' 2025 off -season plans here. Speaking
with a little bit of cautious optimism which
was new for him and I was really glad to hear
that tingle of hope in his voice this year Now
we care we may hate the Jets, but we care about
the people the people that love them the people
whose lives they ruin Yes, exactly All right,
man. But yeah, there's a lot to talk about about
the bills This has been a very bean offseason
to me He has taken care of business signing a
lot of the homegrown talent which has been his
MO over the course of the year I gotta say manage
the cap very well, not just for this season but
into the future too and bringing in some new
interesting pieces. I don't think Bill's fans
are necessarily content because they haven't
seen a splashy move yet. There was a lot of talk
about Miles Garrett, Max Crosby, Micah Parsons
was floating out there as a potential trade candidate
as well at one point, TJ Watt. That hasn't come
to fruition, that big splash move. But Bean is
doing Bean things, and he is making sure that
the floor of this roster remains competitive,
and that the Bills can, you know, make another
playoff run this year, JJ. So, where do you want
to start? You want to start with some of the
new faces in the clubhouse, or you want to start
with some of the extensions of the homegrown
guys? Yeah, let's start with kind of stay at
home first, because I think that's, you know,
let's follow the blueprint that Brandon Bean
follows as well with his team building is, you
know, who has he extended, re -signed, et cetera.
And so... You know, we kicked off the off season
with an extension for Khalil Shakur, which I
think everyone was very happy about four years,
$60 million, which is, you know, a $15 million
plus with incentives per year average. You're
not going to get much better value than that
because a lot of wide receivers, he's not like
an elite outside wide receiver one. And we all
know that, but what he provides to the offense
is that kind of that like Julian Edelman, um,
Cooper Cup, you know, like the guy who can, can
work the middle of the field is open, even when
he's covered, does a lot of amazing things after
the catch. Um, and it has like a 98 % career
catch rate. Like that kind of reliability and
chemistry with Josh Allen cannot go, you know,
um, underestimated. And I think this deal was
incredibly reasonable and something that, you
know, I mentioned in our friends of the pod episode
with Jared. Some it's not uncommon for people
to make an incredible amount of money and then
take it out of gear Kalil Shakur strikes me as
one of those people He gets picked on by his
teammates for still driving like a 10 year old
Subaru But he's not in it for that like he is
in it because he cares about his craft He cares
about his legacy and that's the kind of guy you
want to resign So I think that was a smart resigning.
How do you love you? I know you love Kalil Shakur.
I love Kalil Shakur I've loved him since we've
drafted him. Yeah and it just is such a great
contract. I can't tell you how spectacular monetarily
this contract is gonna be for the bills. We've
seen how the cap hits are so spread out over
the course of the length of the contract. The
percentage of the cap hit that it takes is minuscule.
And when you look at how broken the wide receiver
free agent market is right now with some of the
money that's being doled out to guys that are
less proven than Shakir, I mean, this is the
epitome of a hometown discount in my opinion.
It pays a player a good amount of money, but
by the same token, it is not putting an undue
burden on the team. I mean, it's just you do
not find deals that are as team friendly as this
in this day and age for a guy, quite frankly,
that could have hit the open market and maybe
made one and a half times this. So great for
the bills to do it. And it's a contract as beans
contracts tend to. that is going to age really
well as the salary cap continues to go up and
the AAV on these wide receiver contracts continues
to go up as well. T Higgins will reset the market.
Jamar Chase will reset it shortly thereafter.
This Shakir contract is going to look great two,
three, and even four years down the road. Well,
and I think that somebody like Chris Godwin getting
three years for $66 million, that's what a reasonable
good solid wide receivers getting these days
and to get Shakira at an average of 15 is just,
just wild. Outstanding home hometown discount.
He believes in what they're doing and it helps
to be, you know, to be receiving the ball from
the league MVP and Josh Allen. Um, Terrell Bernard,
another player from that same draft, um, the
linebacker and captain of the quarterback of
the defense, four years, 50 million again. Completely
reasonable 12 and a half to 13 million dollar
per year average value, which is reasonable I
mean it makes him like the 12th or 13th highest
paid linebacker in the league and that I think
is is fine I think he's he sort of stepped back
a little bit this year in terms of splash plays
but I think a lot of that had to do with him
needing to pick up the slack from some of the
other secondary players and not having an outstanding
space eating one technique defensive tackle in
front of him. I think Dequan Jones was not as
good this year. Um, Ed Oliver was slumping at
times. They were facing, you know, pretty substantial
injuries along the interior of the defensive
line. So he was getting, um, he's not a linebacker
that plays very well in space with, uh, with
linemen on him. And so he really needs a stout
defensive line in front of him to be his best.
And hopefully the Bills can get that fixed. Yeah.
We talk about all the time. the D -line has to
keep this linebacker core clean. And it doesn't
just impact Bernard and impacts Milano and the
play style he rolls out there week in and week
out as well. So Bernard to me again, very reasonable
contract for the QB of your defense. And the
value added that he brings is the green dot on
the field, how quickly he has assimilated to
that defense over the past couple years. I mean,
it feels like he has been the green dot on that
defense. for years, and if you look back at it,
he's only had really two full seasons with it
since Edmonds left. So his progression has absolutely
skyrocketed, and it feels like he is a player
who's ascending, who still has another peak that
they can hit in their development, and I'm really
looking forward to him hitting it as a Buffalo
Bill. Again, great resigning by Bean. Yep. And
then, of course, Gregory Rousseau, another person
who the Bills have drafted and they're re -signing
and developing. He was going to play in his fifth
year option this season, which was a pretty sizable,
I think $17 or $18 million, fully guaranteed
cap hit. And so they got him done on a deal,
four years, $80 million, annual average value
of $20 million a year, which is reasonable. I
think it's a little high for his caliber of play
because he's never been a double digit sack player.
But if you look at his advanced analytics, he
is the kind of player you want on your defense
for years. Like you just need some, he's the
Phil Hanson to a Bruce Smith. You need that splash
player on the other side because Greg Russo is
very, very stout. He's very good against the
run. He's good at setting the edge. His pressure
rate is outstanding. It just, you know, there's
nobody, when nobody's chasing a quarterback into
his arms, he's not going to have outstanding
numbers. Yeah, and, I mean, listen, the cliché
of the offseason amongst Bill's mafia has been,
Greg Russo is Robin, and he needs his Batman.
And I get it, but when you talk about all of
his advanced metrics compiled together, I love
Havoc ratings. This offseason, I've just been
obsessing over this new statistical metric that
I now have to play with for the pod. He's eighth
in overall Havoc rating. His pressures, his hits,
his sacks, forced fumbles, the way he dirties
the pocket... His ability to defend in the run
though, there are points on film, particularly
in the post -season where Baltimore and KC were
not afraid to run at him and we can talk about
that more, right? But when you take the whole
package in the aggregate, he was a top 10 edge
guy and you're getting him with I think the 12th,
somewhere around the 12th highest cap percentage
for an edge on any given team. But Miles Garrett
resets the market. Max Crosby resets the market.
Trey Hendrickson with a new deal may also reset
the market or come close. Again, it's a lot of
money on paper right now, but as we move forward
in the next two to three years of this contract,
it's going to age very, very well for overall
percentage of cap hit. Again, another masterclass
by Bean. To lock up a guy I think I would have
been comfortable putting in a trade for a Max
Crosby or a Miles Garrett or a Michael Parsons.
but given that those did not come to fruition,
equally happy to lock him up and now find who
his running mate on the other end is gonna be,
which the Bills think they may have done as we
get to new faces here moving forward. Well, just
one thing on Miles Garrett. I have to say this.
I wanna use the very small pulpit I have to broadcast
my feelings about this. I know what's about to
happen. Miles Garrett. So, Miles Garrett, come...
Like he stands up and he says, I have dreamed
since I was a small child to play someday for
a championship contending team and to hoist the
Lombardi Trophy as a Superbowl champion. And
that is why I am demanding a trade out of the
Cleveland Browns. And then the Cleveland Browns
are like, but money? And he's like, yeah, no,
you're right. Yeah. My childhood dreams are worth,
worth that. Whatever that is that you're offering
me. Sure. I'll take that and be a complete loser
for the rest of my time. Absolutely. Oh, my God.
Miles Garrett thing was a little heartbreaking.
He's the one I think Bill's mafia became most
fixated on. Yes. In, like, a big trade. Like,
trade the first round, maybe a future. Trade
everything. Maybe a rig or so, right? Like, in
a Miles Garrett trade, I feel like only Josh
Allen would have been off the table. Yeah. That's
the only sacred thing I would have protected.
Like, I literally trade any piece. Any piece
at all. I would... This is almost like, you know...
against the rules and laws of Bill's mod. I would
have traded Deion Dawkins for Miles Garrett.
You know, no, I'm kidding. I was about to make
some sort of like, well, you know, based on his
age and current play rate, no, yeah, I know.
But it's true. I mean, I think how you've seen
the Bill, how we have experienced our Buffalo
Bills exit over the course of the last several
seasons, it's really clear the floor on this
roster and this team continues to be high. but
it needed a star or two, particularly on the
defensive side of the ball, is upgrades. And
Garrett, with the timing of his trade request,
felt like the guy that we could potentially nab,
work out a new restructured deal, and felt like
a guy who, at least for the next two to three
seasons, we could potentially rely on to be that
Batman for Greg Russo and be that star that you've
got to plan around on the defense. To be clear,
the Bills are still lacking that, and I don't
know that they're going to find it in free agency.
or the draft potentially, but that remains to
be seen. So we could be having this conversation
at the very same time next year where it's like,
man, the bills are like one miles Garrett away
from us. We're almost there, right? We need that
difference maker. We're almost there. Yeah. I
know. And so like... That being said, it's not
gonna happen. He decided to sell all of his morals
and character for money, and that's okay. That's
his choice, you know? I mean, it's a stupid amount
of money, like literally a stupid amount of money,
so I can't imagine, like, and this isn't, I'm
never gonna be in a position where anyone's like,
hey, will you? have literally no dignity for
a giant amount of money. I can't promise that
I wouldn't be like, you know what? Dignity's
overrated. Give me all of the monies. I mean,
it's the equivalent of if someone offered you
and I $40 million to turn this from a Bills podcast
into a Dolphins podcast. That's what it is. Just
a podcast that rehashes every game of Tom Brady's
career in explicit detail. Man in the Arena podcast
version with Dan and JJ. And we just go game
by game for all 22 years or whatever it was.
Yep, absolutely. Exactly right. If that offers
out there, actually. I know, right? We're not
above it. We're not above it. We're for sale.
Yeah. So I say all that, you know, of course,
like, you know, it's a stupid amount of money
and like he does care about the Cleveland franchise.
That was pretty clear. I think it was just, you
know. May have been a negotiating tactic, may
have been he just pivoted when the money, the
dollar sign showed up. It's an obscene amount
of money. It's obscene. It really is. The highest
paid non -quarterback in NFL history. Okay, so
I'm going to throw a bucket of them at you to
comment on. Ty Johnson, Reggie Gilliam, both
in the backfield, Reed Ferguson, the long snapper,
and Damar Hamlin. All of them. averaging the
biggest contract of all of them is $2 .5 million
per year for two years for Ty Johnson. Everything
else is $2 million or minimum. Thoughts? I was
shocked at how little we got Ty Johnson back
for. Me too. I was stunned by that. And I think
that it is unusual for a player like Ty Johnson
who has flashed, and there is a team out there,
maybe it's Dallas, maybe it's Cleveland. who's
like, listen, we're gonna make you the focal
point of the run game. You're gonna get touches,
you're gonna do this, right? It's not just about
the money, it's about the positioning and the
offense. And with the way he has flashed in clutch
moments over the past two years, I have no doubt
he not only would have gotten more money should
he have chosen to go to another team, but he
would have had a bigger role. But he decided
to stay here in Buffalo, and I think that's honestly
great for this running back room. So you bring
back the compliment of James Cook. Ty Johnson
and Ray Davis, that mighty, mighty trio in that
running back room. And it allows like a hundred
percent continuity in the run game from last
year to this year. I love the Ty Johnson signing,
love the Reggie Gilliam signing. He was such
a factor in the postseason for us when we were
going up against bigger squads and had to get
a little bit heavier. And Dalton Kincaid was
such a liability in the run block game. Like,
when you go back and watch the film, Gilliam
was literally hero balling and saving James Cook
from almost certain doom on so many plays in
the postseason. Like, let's... He was throwing
his body like a wrecking ball at incoming threats
in such an incredible fashion. So lucky to have
that guy. In a world where, like, the fullback
position has been so incredibly devalued, when
you have a good one... pay them the slightly
above that minimum it takes to keep them, right?
For as long as they... Seriously. Same as a long
snapper, right? If you've got a good one, just
whatever the going rate is for that position,
because it's never going to break the bank, it's
never going to be over 1%, you know, 0 .5 % of
the cap. Yeah. Just pay it. Pay it for as long
as they're good, and as long as their career
is persisting, because that's so... I mean, it's
such an important component, especially with
this new offense under Joe Brady and the running
focus. Absolutely. Absolutely. Jamar Hamlin,
I think, is the one that's probably the most
controversial amongst Bill's mafia. I get it.
He knows the defense. He's had starting reps
within the defense. And I do think his film was
better than his low -light moments in the postseason,
right, and in regular season games. He is the
epitome of a stabilizer on that defense. He's
not afraid to throw down on the run game if they
need him to. He is serviceable as that rangy
type of free safety role as well. And I think
the contract is reasonable enough to where if
they draft a Malachi -Starks and he outcompetes
Hamlin, then Hamlin's a really good depth piece.
And I think we tend to forget. he is a maven
on special teams. So if that's the role he slides
back into because he's no longer in a starting
role, I think it bolsters a special teams unit
that was really lacking last season. So I like
it. And I think, listen, there's a lot of negativity
around bringing him back for some reason. Dude
was a sixth round pick and he is now in a second
contract with the team. For one year, two million
dollars. Right. This is another find. of a defensive
back that the Bills have molded into their image,
that they feel good about rolling out their rep
to rep. He's got postseason experience, he's
got starting experience. Like, you could do worse
and you could pay more for a depth piece in a
safety room that still needs to coalesce. So
I'm okay with it. And on a team where, you know,
culture is important and the spirit of the team
is important, this dude has stepped beyond the
veil. He knows what the afterlife holds for all
of us. Like oh my god, we can't record this late
anymore. What are you doing? He died and came
back to life for this team. He's the defensive
secondary Jesus. That's all I'm gonna say. We
can move on. Oh my god. Oh my god. There's one
I want to talk about that you didn't mention.
Okay. And I want to play six degrees separate
of Kevin Bacon with it because it's Darrington
Evans, right? So brought him back and You know,
technically it would be the fourth running back
in the room, but really they value him in his
return capabilities. And I'm fine with them kind
of hedging their bets in the return game because
you've got Codrington, now you've got Evans that's
got some of that efficacy to his game as well.
But for me, I'm really on Daquan Hardy watch
now. And I know that Hardy, for him to come off
of the practice squad and get a 53 -man roster
spot in camp this year, has to flash. is a special
teams returner. He just has to. He's got to up
the juice in his return game and his return skills.
And if he's available to, if he's able to do
that, I think we bring not just a great depth
piece in the cornerback room, but a true backup
nickel to Taron Johnson who Johnson is amazing,
but he's also been banged up at times. And then
we're trying to piece together that nickel position.
Hardy to me is a true nickel backup with some
outside efficacy if we really want to go there.
But I think it's a great hedge, should Johnson,
as he continues to age, miss a game here, a quarter
there, a couple of games here. But that job got
harder with Evans being re -signed, so he's got
to displace Codrington in the cornerback room.
And then he's got to do the same thing with Evans
in the return game, too. But I'm on Dequan Hardy
watch as a result of that now. Well, I love what
I saw from Dequan Hardy in the preseason for
the Bills. And I think that maybe its potential
without prepping for a draft, without prepping
for the combine, without any of that going on,
that he could take a step forward this offseason
and make a case to replace, you know, Jamarcus
Ingram or Kam Lewis in those kind of third, fourth,
fifth. Safety slash slash DB positions because
I think and I really like both of those players
But I think that you're always looking for upside
and daquan hardy could could have up because
he definitely has an athletic profile It's a
little bit better when it comes to pure speed
than either of them I've gotten into a lot of
arguments on social media about daquan hardy
and his potential ability to play on the outside
I always use the Trent McDuffie comp, and I get
McDuffie is like one of one in his decision group.
Top 25 pick, yeah. He's the guy we wish we had
as opposed to Kyer, Elam, right? We all know
it now. Who, as we, you know, he was traded to,
where was he traded to? Dallas. Dallas, that's
right. And in some miracle, I mean, I don't know
how Bean pulls this off. He gets a fifth, was
it a fifth pack? Got a fifth. He had a fifth
back, he had to give away a seventh, right? Gave
away a seventh, but got a fifth back as a result
of the deal. Just being doing bean things, right?
That's amazing. It really is an amazing return,
right? Given where it was so clear the Bills
did not want to put Elam out there anymore. Well,
Elam's career trajectory, and he's still young
and seems like he's a reasonably good dude. I
hope the best for him that this is a refreshing
start. He's a CB who doesn't... Doesn't play
special teams like isn't good at special teams
which if you're not and Hasn't shown that he's
good enough to also hold down a secure a starting
role or be better than a fourth best CB on the
team With the bills so and it's not like the
bills are loaded with premier talents on the
on the roster at at cornerback so for him not
to crack the starting lineup doesn't offer anything
in special teams and being to get back a middle
-round pick for him is just I don't even know.
It's wild. It's just wild. And a middle -round
pick this year, too, that he can potentially
use to package up and hop back into the third
round, too. The Bills are sneaky close to being
able to have four top 100 draft picks, being
Places cards, right? So, JJ, there's one more
extension we should talk about before we get
to the fresh faces. Yes, saving the best for
last. Yes. MVP17. Joshua Patrick Allen signs
a monster extension with the Bills that is, of
course, going to age beautifully. And we got
a really candid moment from Josh. I think it
was today in an interview that he did for Buffalo
Bill's media, where he talked about the nature
of the negotiations, what he was hoping for out
of an extension. And I got to tell you, if you
didn't love Josh Allen as a Bills fan before
listening to that interview, There is no way.
You don't have a heart if you don't love that
dude after that interview. He talked about not
wanting to put the screws to the franchise, wanting
to make sure that the franchise had maximum cap
flexibility, and then so many fans feel alienated
by rooting for millionaires that are like paid
for by billionaires in the NFL. Like, we all
kind of square that circle to root for these
guys. But Josh gave the most everyman answer
when he was asked about why he didn't feel like
he needed to go for more money. And he's like,
at this stage in my life, and I'm ad -libbing,
but he's like, at this stage in my life, there's
nothing I can't do already that another $5 million
would allow me to do, right? And then followed
up with, like, the most wholesome thing ever
by saying, like, I got a house. I got a car.
I'm doing fine. I'm good. I'm getting married.
I got an MVP. I'm good, man. Yeah. So just, again,
the right Josh absolutely validated, again, not
just by his performance on the field this season
and the MVP and the accolades, but just by the
fact that he has stepped up into this leadership
role. He is defining the culture of the team
with his humility, with his desire to win. And
it... The bet that the Bills made on him in the
draft has obviously played off, but the bet that
they made on him at the beginning of last offseason
where they jettisoned a lot of that veteran talent
to reset the cap clock for themselves, that has
also paid off. He has stepped up as a leader
of men in that clubhouse, and again, the Bills
couldn't be happier, I would imagine, with how
he has performed both on and off the field. Yeah,
absolutely. And I think that, you know, it's
really... It's funny because people often talk
about, oh, the best franchise quarterbacks will
hold the team's needs above their own and give
hometown discounts, because they know that if
they don't, they're not going to have somebody
walking for them. They're not going to have somebody
to throw to, right? And that narrative is out
there, and people always bring up Tom Brady.
But then it turns out that Tom Brady might have
been getting back alley deals from the Patriots
for tens of millions of dollars the whole time
he was there. So they were supplementing his
income by paying TB12, his separate incorporated
brand, which is like, it just, something I love,
which is tarnishing that legacy, just like it
continues to do that. Patriot way. Yeah, exactly.
Starting LLC. Hey, if it was now, if Brady was
still playing, he would just start a meme coin,
right? And he'd tell the Patriots to just invest
in it. Sell the Patriots meme coin, yeah. So,
but yeah, no, Josh Allen, standup guy, high character
it seems, and everything right. betting on him
and then giving him that opportunity to lead.
And now they were also able to add some other
pieces, some small, modest pieces. Floor raisers.
Yeah, floor raisers. Yep. Just trying to back,
I'd say, I'd consider this trying to backstop
the roster against the draft class, right? Yep.
Trying to make sure that there are bodies in
place that they, that have, have reasonable experience
in the league. in case one of the first three
picks in the draft that they might want to put
in a starting role is not ready for that position.
Correct. Yep. And that's what Bean does. He doesn't
like to go into the draft with a glaring need.
And to me, he's done it twice. He did it last
season when he clearly needed a wide receiver
and maybe overthought it with Kian Coleman trading
back twice and all that other kind of stuff.
And he did it in the Kyra Elam year as well,
where there was everyone and their brother knew
the Bills were going to target a cornerback.
And we saw how that turned out well, too. Listen,
Bean is not perfect. He's done some great things
on the draft. He's done some not so great things
on the draft. The Elim year and even how things
may be played out last year, even though Coleman
is still a work in progress. When Bean is backed
into a corner where teams know what he's going
to do, he just gets a little galaxy brained.
He's always in a better spot when he can go BPA.
And that is what this offseason free agent class
has been about. Filling holes so they can go
BPA. wherever it is they may draft, right? So
where do you wanna start? You wanna go in in
like chronological order with the first guy they
signed and go on up? Yeah, absolutely. So bring
us in. All right, so first signing, the big splash
of day one and free agency, Joshua Palmer. Joshua
Palmer. Yes, 25 year old wide receiver getting
about 13 million over three, over the course
of three years on AAV per year. He is a wide
receiver JJ that I believe there is some debate
on his separation ability His metrics against
man are okay when it comes to separation He's
got a nice route release and every now and then
he will catch a DB sleeping and he will release
for a long ball very very well He's not a burner.
He has not the speed element that the bills sorely
need in this wide receiver room But to me, it
was a clear signal they were not going to re
-sign Amari Cooper, unless it was for the absolute
right amount. He had the same separation values,
according to Next Gen stats, as Amari Cooper,
with a little bit more juice in the long release
game. So he's not going to run by guys, but he's
going to run some nice routes every now and then.
And if the Bills find themselves in man coverage,
Josh just eats man apart. And he is another target
for Josh to go to. So backstops the roster against
what seems like eminent loss of Amari Cooper.
And surprising value on the contract. I think
it could go up to like $15 million a year in
incentives for Palmer. But I mean, at the end
of the day, this is just where the wide receiver
market is. It's broken. $13 million for this
guy. You're betting on upside. Yeah. Well, and
it feels like, I mean, that's almost the same
deal that Curtis Samuel is playing under, too.
It's just wild. It's in the same ballpark. And
that's the kind of money you have to pay for
somebody who's a third or fourth wide receiver
on a team these days. And I think that the thing,
you mentioned it before, the thing that the Bills
have seemed to have done in free agency after
resigning their own is really just betting on
upside. And again, trying to bring in players
that they think are better than the players that
they had last year without any huge splashes.
So Joshua Palmer is definitely betting on upside.
They're saying with... And I mean, he was playing
with Justin, like, I think it was his name. Herbert.
Herbert, yeah. He was playing with Herbert, who
is a very good quarterback, but I don't know
that Herbert is a better quarterback than Josh
Allen. So seeing what Joshua Palmer can unlock,
not playing behind Keenan Allen and Quinton,
they were trying to... proved that Quinton Johnston
was a good pick. Lad McConkie was their darling
in this draft. His plan behind Mike Williams
a couple years ago. He was sort of stuck in this
position where he couldn't necessarily get reps.
And so in this offense, he is already top three
wide receiving targets. Which is why, that's
a little concerning to think about, right? Because
you don't know what you're going to get out of
Samuel. And when you look at his separation metrics
in zone, against zone, which the Bills see a
ton of, right? He's kind of a lane clogger with
Curtis Samuel, right? He's actually got worse
zone separation metrics than Shakir and Samuel.
So really, they're gonna prioritize them when
they think they're gonna get man looks. So it's
a lot of money for a guy who might net you three
20 -hour touchdowns this season. I don't know.
I didn't love it. I didn't love it on day one.
The Bills saw more man coverage than any team
in the league last year, though. Yeah, which
is true. didn't believe in the Bills wide receiver
core, or that the wide receiver core had anyone
that could beat them, and that was proven right
in a lot of cases, but the Bills also set franchise
records for scoring, so we'll see. Right, and
Josh Allen had his best season against a man
that he's had in a while, right? And when we
say teams play a lot of zone against the Bills,
it's still 50 % like zone, and then most teams
on the high end. Play zone most of the time.
Right, play zone most of the time. The exceptions
are. I think the exceptions were the Lions last
season, the Vikings last season as well. Jaguars
played almost exclusively man. Right. And Josh
torched them in week three. Yeah. I mean, very
few teams are playing 50 % or more in man. Most
teams are playing the majority of their steps
in South, so yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so that was the
first one. And then I think Michael Hoyt was
next. Yeah. How? Yeah. So I will tell you. Here's
what I want to do with this one. Yeah. So here's
what I wanna do though, because listen, there
are a lot of Bills media members and podcasters
smarter than us that absolutely love this. To
me, this is the KC Two Hill signing of this year,
right? You're betting on athletic traits, but
the Bills have never had success taking a positionless
player and making him work in this defensive
scheme. They just haven't, right? But I'll tell
you where it does make sense, and it makes sense
when you couple it with the BOSA signing that
I don't want to step on because I know we're
getting to it next, right? Because that's like
a big move so far this offseason, right? But
when you look at what Hoyt's advanced analytics
were in the run game, when you look at, when
you pair that with what we know Rousseau can
do in the run game, and what Eponeza has done
against the run game before, it makes sense in
that you don't actually need to put Joey Bosa
out there in situations where it's an obvious
run situation. You can lean into him and keep
him healthy and keep him fresh, hopefully, during
the course of the season by using him in pure
pass -through situations. Bosa's got juice in
the run -stopping game. He's actually above average
when it comes to that in a lot of metrics. But
Hoyt is gonna be like your run eater. I think
a lot of us are hoping because of his RAS score,
he's gonna be that positionless chess piece that
McDermott had when he was the DC for Carolina.
But they've brought guys like this in before
and they haven't maximized them. So I look at
this as he's gonna play on the edge in rundowns,
he's gonna flip inside in the NASCAR package
and probably play next to Bosa sometimes in obvious
pass for situations and that's really it. I'm
like, eh, I'm okay. Like, prove me wrong, but
they've never taken a guy like this, and they've
never fit him into this game well. Yeah, I think
that's fair, and I think, you know, I will say
the one time that they did make somebody like
this really, like, show out was Lorenzo Alexander,
but that wasn't this coaching staff. That wasn't
the staff, that's right. No, that was the last
time that they've had a player like that, who,
like, and it's funny because I'd heard somebody
else talk about their path to the NFL. Michael
Hoyt also started as a lineman, dropped like
60 pounds and became an outside linebacker. Yeah,
he played at 310 at his highest weight. And so
it's an interesting kind of parallel because
I think Bill's Mafia really remembers from the
few of the drought years, Zo being like a revelation
getting like 13 or 14 sacks in a year in that
kind of designated pass rushers style. Hoyt offers
a little bit more as a run -stopper, and I watched
his... So I watched a bunch of his snaps in the
past two seasons. Two seasons ago, he played
all 17 games. They had injuries, and he started...
I think he started for BOSA, right? Yeah. No,
no, no. He played on the Rams. Oh, he played
on the Rams. So he started for one of their premier
pass rushers who went down. They got so hurt
over the course of the last couple years, yeah.
So... Anyway, he got a lot of starting snaps
and watching him play Reminded me of so many
I think Bill's fans are really gonna like him
I think he's a likable player to watch because
he is like the try -hard Tougher path to the
league has to has always had to work for everything
like if you like Josh Allen story you're like
Michael Hoyt story I just don't think he's that
much of an impact player and spending eight million
per year Like for me, Michael Hoyt or AJ Appaneza,
one of the two of them might be released next
off -season to just get out of under the money.
Because if they don't show up and really have
good seasons. Right. I agree. I think it's a
great bet, again, on upside. And that's just
where the bills are right now. They have fortified
the edge room. It's just... Again, we don't need
to beat the Stead Horse, right? Like, where's
Casey Twohill now? Not on the Bills, right? And
this is what the signing was. Where's Von Miller?
Gone. We were all talking about it the same time
last year, Casey Twohill's RAS scores. Oh, the
Bills, they finally got an athlete, blah, blah,
blah. What are we doing with White? Oh, love
his tape, look at his RAS score. It tried hard.
Yeah, really cool. I would love to be wrong about
this, and I think we need to be wrong about this
because the bills don't have a lot of margin
for error with the line. I hope we're wrong because
we've been right too often, and it's been bad.
Remember Trent Murphy? Oh, his R .E .S. Yeah.
Oh my God, yeah. Can we... Can we, can we just
please get a 370 pound Nose Tackle next to that
Oliver? Can we just have this thing? Let's do
something differently this time, please. Seriously,
Jesus God. Speaking of nose tackles, or tackles
rather, Larry Oganjoby. Sorry, Dwayne Carter.
You're out. You're off the island. Yeah. It's
not looking good for Dwayne Carter. It also wasn't
looking good for Larry Ogunjobi last season.
He did a pretty poor season across the board.
He did. He was an absolute liability in run defense,
and he also offered absolutely nothing in pass
rush. So here's where I'm a little bit more high
on him. In Pittsburgh, I'm pretty sure they play
a 3 -4, right? We do. And we saw this happen
with Daquan Jones the first season he came over
from Tennessee, where that defense was a multi
-gap assignment. And in Buffalo, they pretty
much give you a gap to focus on on the D -line,
right? I think this is gonna be the same case
here, where Ogunjobi is gonna be able to focus
on a gap and assignment and not have to worry
about covering so much space on the defensive
line. and I think that's gonna get the best out
of him in this scheme as a rotational piece.
Okay. Yeah, I mean, I don't have a lot of hope
that this is a good signing. Can't be any worse
than Dwayne Carter. He put out some bad film.
He put out some bad film last year. He was on
the ground like every snap. It was pitiful. Blown
off the ball. Oh my God. Can we just both agree
that if the Bills don't use one of their top...
first two picks on somebody who's like over 320
pounds that we will jump on the fire bean train.
I will say this, we have learned nothing if we
don't use a pick on a giant human to put next
to an Oliver. And that player needs to play 70
% of the snaps. It just has to be the case. We
have to modernize this. Let's put a bunch of
below average athletes out there for half the
snaps. of a game is just not, that's not the
answer. And they're smaller than all the guys
they're going up against? Yeah, especially with
the league moving towards teams being more run
heavy. It is not, oh my gosh. That is the thing
about this, the construction of the team and
Sean McDermott's defense that has frustrated
me the most, is like every other NFL team in
the league, including the Chiefs, understands
that your rotation of your defensive line should
be a 70 -30 or 80 -20 situation. Chris Jones
does not sit out for more snaps than is absolutely
critical for him to not collapse from exhaustion.
Because the guy you're bringing in for Chris
Jones is not as good as Chris Jones. I mean,
that's the thing. That's the thing is you cannot
have two waves of players at an elite game -changing
caliber. So what you then do is you're diluting
the pool by overpaying for moderately above average
athletes. And therefore, in those big moments,
nobody's changing the game. And then you just
watch them fail miserably over and over again
against the Chiefs. Yeah. Listen, this feels
like a copy and paste blueprint from a lot of
off seasons we've seen from the Bills before.
I think they are, though, clearly showcasing
to us what their plan is gonna be in the draft.
And I think DT... I think interior defensive
linemen is going to be a top priority. And I
actually do think, especially with this extra
fifth -round pick they've got rolling, I think
they're going to trade up to get the guy they
want. And I think it's Kenneth Grant. So I think
they want to spin on that guy. I would be so
elated if that was the answer. You're going to
need to get up into the teens to get Kenneth
Grant. Do it. They've got the capital to do it.
And what the hell are we waiting for? Trade a
two next year if you want to, if somebody doesn't
need anything in the fifth round this year. Do
what you gotta do. No, I was just gonna say,
speaking of needs, I think that we should also,
unless something changes, we should pay attention
to cornerback in this draft. Gotta happen. Because
they've gotta find somebody. You don't trade
away Kyriellum and not re -sign Russell Douglas
and not sign any of the other players that are
out there. The field is very shallow at this
point. It is. I mean, you're talking about reclamation
projects. Like, there's a Jeff Okuda out there
who I'd actually love to see Okuda and his skill
set in our system. There's all this talk, like,
I feel like there is every off -season. We're
reading the tea leaves on the coaching hires.
Oh, this guy knows man. This guy teaches man.
We're going to play more man, right? Yeah, we
probably by necessity need to play more man,
but... this Buffalo Bills unit and they're telling
you this by the defensive line acquisitions they've
made. Like they really want to play nickel and
they really want to play too high zone. So, and
they're never going to be a 50 % or more man
outfit. So a guy like Jeff Acuta can come in
and he can adapt to his own scheme. Jair Alexander,
he's been beat up. He's kind of a pain in the
butt, but like that dude can play and if he gets
released... Could see him as a one -year rehab
contract that really works out well for the bills,
too So I'm keeping an eye on a couple of these
things in the cornerback market But I love some
of these studs in the I love yeah in the draft.
There are some really exciting players in the
draft. Yeah That's gonna be good Siobhan Ravel
from East Carolina. Hey if he's healthy He meant
it right? Yeah, he looks solid a couple of Kentucky
guys that I really like like I mean and they're
fast this whole DB class was just fast. Yeah,
that's what the Bills need. Yes, but if we pick
a guy who's got great character traits but runs
a four or five, I'm gonna lose my mind. We need
speed in the back end for the love of God. Dan,
no, we're gonna just trust. People were running
away from Razul Douglas for half of the season
last year. Oh, we can run mesh because Razul
can't keep up with us anymore. Let's do that.
Listen, Dan, trust the process. We're gonna get
a bunch of undersized, middle -tier, great character
guys on the defensive line, and we're gonna back
them up with a bunch of subpar athletes who get
absolutely torched in critical moments. If you
are listening to this podcast for the very first
time, I promise you we're Bills fans. We like
the Bills. We love the Bills. We bleed for this
team. We love this squad. We have just been doing
this now for five years, but it feels like 50.
because we have these same exact conversations.
Because we're so close. Yes. At the end of every
off -season, we have these same conversations
because the playoff run ends the same way every
time, and the way it ends, we do not address
in the following off -season. That's exactly
it. And so, yeah, they always abrides me and
never abride Buffalo Bills, and we love them.
We do. We love this team. Guys, we love this
team. Please listen. Like, share, and subscribe
wherever you get your pods. We love this team.
We just want fast people, fast humans. Big humans,
fast humans on the squad. Speaking of big and
fast, let's talk about the next one. Let's talk
about Joey Bosa. I hate this pick. Oh, I'm actually
okay with this. Go ahead. No, I'll say this.
I think... This is a half measure when what you
really needed was to pry away Trey Hendrickson.
After Max Crosby and Myles Garrett moved themselves
off the table, I think what you needed to do
was make a hard run at Trey Hendrickson because
I don't think Cincinnati has still not resigned
him at this point, I don't think. And their asking
price has gone up to a first round pick. They
want multiple picks, including a guaranteed first
round for him. And if you bring in Hendricks,
you've got to pay him. You've got to pay Hendricks.
And he has seen what Crosby has got, he has seen
what Garrett has got, and I think objectively
you could argue he's not either one of those
two players, but he has been the league leader
in sacks for the past two seasons. What he does
provide is reasonable enough that he is a game
-changing talent. And that is the move. So Joey
Bosa, to me, it's more a disappointment that
they didn't make a more substantial move. But
the actual move itself is not terrible. Like,
you know, there are worse. Like, I think there
are edge rushers. Hassan reddick there are edge
rushers in this league that I would have been
more disappointed if they did a half measure
to sign Because I think Joey Bosa is a good player
went healthy. That's the big asterix though He
hasn't had more than what he's had hasn't had
a single season in the last five years where
he hasn't missed at least 2021 was his last I
think healthy season I think he missed like the
final game of that year because it was like playoff
rest or something I can only miss three games
last season with a hip injury, but Even that
he missed he only missed three games. It's still
only had six sacks So I mean his his pressure
rate is good It's he's like he's still a starting
caliber edge his pressure rate QB hit rate all
that kind of stuff from last season was still
in the top 30s, right? So there are 32 teams
in the NFL. He's still a starting caliber edge.
He'd be starting for somebody I think he's got
more juice in the run defense game than people
give him credit for. And I think the way the
Bills are building out this defensive line, he's
really just gonna be a one -year mercenary. He's
gonna come in and he's gonna be a pass rush specialist.
We should keep him fresh, keep him healthy. And
then for the down, the down and dirty downs,
I think we're gonna see guys like Hoyt, we're
gonna see Rousseau out there, obviously Oliver
out there. We're just gonna see a different machination
or a different formation for this defensive line.
But when it's Bose time, they're gonna run him
out there. And I wouldn't be surprised if he
is now the new Von Miller in the NASCAR package
where he flipped Rousseau inside. So you got
Rousseau and Bosa overloading the same side of
the offensive line. That gets me a little bit
excited in past situations, so we'll see. Sure,
yeah. And I think for me, the Joey Bosa thing
hinges, if this isn't a cool, this is an excellent
gamble. If we're talking this time next year
about the Bills' incredible successes in the
season, it's going to be because of two factors.
One, the Bills fix the interior of the defensive
line and get somebody who's a playmaker large
defensive tackle next to Ed Oliver, because I
think Ed Oliver is a playmaking defensive tackle
only when he's not double teamed. And sometimes
when he is double teamed, but we need somebody
that the opposing team cannot afford to not double
team. That's what has to happen at the other
defensive one technique. If they solve that in
a reasonable way, I'm guessing through the draft,
and Joey Bosa and Greg Russo both have healthy
seasons, we're going to be talking about how
this was such a great investment and how this
was such a great gamble. It's a one -year dart
throw. I'll take it. Yep. Yeah, for sure. All
right. Who do you want to talk about next? I
mean. Do we want to just bundle them up? Yeah,
Derek Forrest and Loviska Chanal, those are the
last two, I think. So I'm excited for Forrest.
Chanal is somebody who we actually identified
two years ago as someone we want to see on the
team. A speedy, kind of gadget -y guy. Yep, he's
definitely a gadget -y guy. I don't think Curtis
Samuel needs to worry about his job, but you
know, Chanal could fill that role as a practice
squad elevation at some point if, for whatever
reason, he doesn't make the team and Samuel gets
hurt again, right? you don't lose that skill
set if Samuel goes out. Forrest, I actually,
I know a lot of Washington Commanders fans in
my life. They love this dude. They're like, he's
a gamer, he's really athletic, like great in
the community, but like has amazing on the field
traits. So he, I've seen like a lot of cynical
Bill's Mafia being like, oh, the Mike Edwards
signing of this year, but I think he's a great
hedge. If Cole Bishop, is not ready to go at
the start of training camp as your plug -and
-play starter at one of the safety positions.
Forrest has the same athletic profile. I mean,
Cole Bishop is younger and he's a little bit
of an athletic freak, but you're not losing a
whole lot in the athletic range area with Forrest.
And so I think that's a hedge against Cole Bishop
if Bishop is just not ready and they don't want
to rush him into play. So I'm okay with it. They're
hedging their bets. They're filling holes, right?
Well, and I'll say this, just I have not watched
a full all 22 game of Derek Forrest's, any of
his 74 snaps last season. He did not play a lot.
I think he was mostly a special teams contributor
type. A very sound tackler, which we definitely
need in that secondary. So I haven't watched
much, but my thoughts after just briefly kind
of reading about him and looking at some of his
stats and accomplishments so far is that he could
be... I'm a little bit more excited about this
than a lot of these signings because He kind
of plays to me like, um, like a Jordan Poyer
early in his career. Cause Jordan Poyer was not
a solid starter at Cleveland when the Bills picked
him up. He was sort of a, like a, you know, a
chess piece player here and there had some, uh,
injury concerns his first couple of years in
the league and then, uh, was on special teams
quite about quite a bit. So him coming over to
the Bills became all pro po. You know, I'm not
saying not putting that on Mr. Derek Forrest,
two R's in both Derek and Forrest, by the way,
Bill's mafia, if you're trying to get this right,
when you're texting your friends. Names are important.
So Derek Forrest, he has like kind of athletic
profile, is a dog in the run fits, you know?
And so we'll see. It's the kind of thing where
it's like a one year deal. It's not, I don't
even know if the numbers have been released on
it. So it's definitely not a blockbuster kind
of signing, cause he's also not that kind of
player. And so. You know, we'll, we'll see what
it comes up with. I'm the same as you on Loviska
Chanel. It's sort of like, maybe he ends up,
you know, getting bumped onto the practice squad
after training camp because he has bounced around
the league to six or seven different teams and
he's only 26 years old. He's like on everybody's,
oh, the guy that could pop the seer list, right?
And he just hasn't yet. But if there's a situation
where he can, it is a Buffalo Bills offense where
we are. We are targets agnostic, as Meena Combs
likes to say in this offensive scheme. So if
there's a place for someone like that to thrive,
it's definitely going to be in Buffalo. Awesome,
man. Shoot. I mean, I think we pretty well covered
it. A little bit about the draft quick. We're
going to be doing draft preview as we get closer
to it. I know, JJ, you are probably like a baker's
dozen deep into your mock drafts that you've
got saved in the shared drive so far. Well, you
know, okay, you know I have to stop. I have to,
like, slow down mock drafting when I start doing,
like, wild experiments. Like, most recently,
one of my wild experiments was, can I get 10
consecutive picks in the fourth round? Can I
trade my way into 10 picks in a row and just
clean out all of the talent that drops to that
level of the draft in one go? Dude, you have
a problem. You need help. Free agency's not even...
Done. And mock drafts are never right. Never
right. I do one mock draft. It's when we do it
on the pod. It's not right. It's like what I
do when I'm waiting for somebody to email me
back at work. It's like, oh my gosh, I got to
just do a quick mock draft. Lunch break on my
phone, waiting for a kid to wake up from a nap,
taking a walk, mock draft. I'm pretty sure you
did two mock drafts on this pod while we were
talking. Just one. Just one. There you go. There
you go. But yeah, man, so we're gonna get into
it We're gonna build we're actually building
the first ever buffalo bread draft board, which
is gonna be exciting this season five years in
normally we just take like an aggregate of Other
draft boards out there and we give our own thoughts
to it But we're watching a ton of film a lot
of combine stuff and we're gonna give put out
our own top 100 here this season, which we're
very excited about. Absolutely. We're going to
continue to oversaturate the mock draft market
as well, doing the Friends of the Pod, not Friends
of the Bills, all AFC East mock draft as we get
closer to draft time. So lots to come. Exciting
to be back here. Buffalo Bills, 2025 offseason
in full swing. For all of you listening at home,
like, share, and subscribe for every podcast,
YouTube, Apple, and Spotify. And as always, go
build. Go Bills.