Welcome back to the Buffalo Red Podcast.
Here with Dan it is Friday 812.
And we've got some news bits to hit for our beloved Buffalo Bills in the run up to the
draft in two short weeks.
Dan, how are you feeling?
And what's been happening for you, my friend?
I am feeling like I am ready for winter to officially be over here in upstate New York.
We have had a nice warm patch, but it is also a rainy patch as well.
If we can get past this next little cold burst we have coming in, I think I'm going to be
ready for the summer JJ and summer of course means OTAs.
It means trading camp preseason and the eventual fall kickoff for your Buffalo Bills.
So I feel every day is if there are signs in the universe that are bringing us one step
closer to the start of the 2020 season and I love it.
Perfect.
Me too.
I'm excited to get going with this offseason and with really the offseason training, the
OTAs, the mandatory mini camp, all that stuff is like that's the time where you're excited.
You're kind of living in the sorrow if you're one of the 31 franchises who don't win the
Super Bowl and a big time football fan.
You're living in the sorrow until those new offseason training things start to kick off.
If you're a team who had a coaching change, if you're a team who had major stars leave
via weird trades, it's not really a time to be hopeful for the new season until you see
kind of an assembled roster and you see the free agency market wind down and then you
get excited about all your team's draft picks.
So that whole kind of May 1 and on summertime where it can be quiet and we'll probably take
a slight hiatus with the pod because not a lot will happen while the league is off,
but then we'll kind of return with a plum in the early summer before kind of, you know,
the season kicks off.
Does that all sound good, sir?
That sounds good to me.
I think I particularly like the part about coming back with a plum.
Yes.
I think that's a pep in our step extra proxy with the word of the pod.
If you see me and Dan in public, we can, you know, earn you a beer sometime.
Use a plum in a sentence that has to work though, and you have to be right.
I've had three people cash that in with me here.
I mean, too, I've had one person three times.
So yeah, no, it's it's it's a fun little game we could play though.
So yeah, what do we what do we want to get done here today, Dan?
Let's talk a little bit about Bill's news.
There were a couple of, I would say, minor moves that the bills have made in the past,
you know, week or so since we last posted a pod.
And then JJ, what I'd like to do is I want to talk about how the rest of the AFC East
is currently stacking up, heading into the draft.
We are a Bill centric podcast for obvious reasons, but I think it is always helpful
to talk about the bills, chances, the bills roster, the bills, overall philosophy in the
context of what the other AFC East teams are doing.
Because as Sean McDermott always says, it has to start with winning the division.
And despite the fact that the Buffalo Bills have taken these drastic roster steps over
the past month or so of the off season, there are, I think, some some silver linings when
you look at the bills, chances at least in the AFC East, compared to where their their
competitors are standing right now in the Dolphins, Patriots and Jets.
So JJ, let's talk a little bit about Bill's news.
But then I want to talk about what the other AFC East teams have been doing this off season
and put it into a larger context for what that might mean for Buffalo heading into 2024.
That sounds great.
Let's start with, you know, we know that the Buffalo Bills and we've covered some of this
already.
The defensive line has been bolstered with a number of signings.
The offensive line that the most recent we'll talk about the ones that we haven't get covered
on a pod, the office of line signings.
Most recently they signed Lyle Collins, who previously was with the Bengals and before
that was with the Dolphins, who at one time in his career was an above above average kind
of pro bowl caliber at times, starter mostly with the Cowboys.
He when he moved on to the Bengals, every team he's kind of moved on from has had the
team has chosen to, to kind of send him packing or cut him with years left on his deal, which
is never a good sign.
You know, but I don't know that it's personality issues that usually comes up with injury issues.
He just cannot, you know, compete at the same level and somebody takes over his starting
job.
And so and he's been very successful at being kind of paid handsomely throughout his career
after being an undrafted free agent and kind of falling out of the draft.
He's been good at getting big time contracts, but tends to, you know, tail off and not be
at the value of that money and leaving teams no reason other than cutting him.
He had a massive ACL MCL, everything in his knee got torn up in the 2022 season.
He was expected to come back around and play in 2023, but then wasn't able to get on the
field, kind of bounced around was on practice squad and stuff like that near the end of
the season for the Cowboys, which is a good sign.
If the team that you know, you previously moved on from is willing to bring you back
into their practice squad after you've left, then it's probably not a personality issue
or behavioral issue.
It's probably just kind of business.
And so with all that said, you know, the bills bring in Lyle Collins.
He can play, he's played, you know, a few hundred snaps at left guard and like 4,000
snaps at right tackle.
So what I see there is an opportunity to challenge Spencer Brown and see where he's at.
And if, if not that, then he might challenge David Edwards for the left guard position.
And if he doesn't get a starting position on either, but shows out pretty well throughout
training camp, I think you can see Lyle Collins as a premier backup for those two positions
on the line.
Let me ask you this, JJ, and it may be too soon because to your point, you got to see
how healthy Collins is.
But there have been simmering and listen, it's the off season, so it's lying season.
So take all this with a big grain of salt, but there have been simmering and some bills
inside her circles that Spencer Brown could be made available via trade for the right
draft capital in this year's draft, ideally nabbing the bills, potentially that third
round pick that they lost in the result Douglas trade.
Again, it's reading a lot into a move, but Collins is a veteran presence that we know
the bills of it.
He's a clear floor razor at a position where right now they have affected their own depth.
And you've got Spencer Brown who's heading into a contract here and he's got one good
healthy season under his belt in three.
So it really does make you wonder if the bills are considering trading Brown when he is at
his peak value, because they're probably not going to be able if he does, let's say he
has a gangbusters year this year, they're probably not going to be able to afford him
under the current under the current salary cap restraints that they're facing on a on
a new deal.
And if he doesn't get hurt, you're looking at playing Collins.
If he does get hurt, you're looking at playing Collins certificate time anyway.
Do the bills while Spencer Brown has the most value in the eyes of other teams, consider
moving on from him to gain some additional draft capital JJ.
Um, you know, I could see it.
He's in that he's entering the last year of his deal.
I could see Brandon being looking at the kind of tackle market and how free agency played
out for right tackles this past, you know, the past free agency and saying, I don't know
if I want to spend, you know, I just restructured the on Dawkins.
I don't know if I want to spend a massive amount of money on both both of my bookends
when I can be younger vet and then potentially this is a decent tackle draft class when it
comes in terms to players who have one or two excellent traits and then a lot of question
marks as to what they'll develop into the top end of the tackle class, um, you know,
is going to fall off before the bills probably pick at 2028.
But, um, but the middle round tackle classes, like I said, it's it's people with a hole
in their game.
In some regard, but not all of those gaps in talent or skills is going to be something
that's not teachable.
So there's a chance that you kind of double down and you pour some chroma sauce on it,
um, on a mid round tackle to be the tackle of your future and on a cheap deal because
younger and cheaper again is the theme of this.
And that that I could, that's the I can see it happening.
And if you get a third for Spencer Brown, you literally what you you pick him with a third
a late round or late in the round, third pick, and then you, um, get two excellent and one
really shaky year out of him as a starter, and then you move on from him.
I think that that's, uh, that's a pretty good, you know, that's a pretty good use of, of
assets and resources.
So I could definitely see that move happening on the contrary draft, develop and resign is
Brandon means motto.
And if you have who could be a rising star at right tackle and you still have Deon Dawkins
kind of in the middle of his prime, why the heck would you ever move away from two starting
tackles knowing that you can get Spencer Brown signed up for 16 to 20 million per year?
Probably, um, on like a shorter deal so that he can hit free agency again, because I think
that's the, that's the hometown discount you get.
And you say, Hey, Spencer, we're going to give you a deal.
It's not going to be top of the market, but you haven't been a top of the market player,
but it's going to be a pretty short contract term so that you're still under 30 when you
hit free agency again.
And then if you want to get a huge bag of money and leave, we might be priced out because
I don't think his play has proven irreplaceable value, um, at this time.
And so I think his contract would be affordable next off to you.
Yeah.
All good points, all good points.
I will be curious to see, because we've also floated the idea of Kyar Elam being put out
there for potential trade.
I do think the bills have enough fourth round assets to move back into the third round of
the draft by bundling a couple of those together to hop into like somewhere in the 90 to 100
range of that comp pick area.
So I don't necessarily think that it is a likely move, but it's an intriguing move,
especially with the depth of this tackle class.
And like you said, the Buffalo bills clearly believe in the coaching philosophy and coaching
style of one Aaron Kroemer.
Otherwise, they went out of deconstructed the offensive line in the way they did this
off season.
So interesting stuff moving forward.
But yes, overall, intrigue aside, palace intrigue aside, I think the signing of Collins is good.
It's exactly what the bills needed to do to bolster depth at a position where they had
hurt their own depth.
And this gives Vandemark a little bit of breathing room or the ability to prioritize them over
as our primary left tackle backup in the event anything happens to Dawkins.
So solid overall depth moved by the bills overall.
And JJ sneakily, as you take a look at the roster, and if you can look at it with as
much objectivity as humanly possible, there are fewer and fewer holes that the bills would
need to address.
But they're really right now as it stands only two premium picks in round one and round
two.
So they're setting themselves up to do JJ what I think we have all hoped they would
do, which is focus on a wide receiver with pick one, ideally, but at the very least with
pick two, because that is still glaring need for this this team in that room.
I agree.
And I think that, you know, what we what we hope the bills do is really get I'm hopeful
that between rounds one and the second pick they have in round four, they get two wide
receivers.
Because I think that for me, the thought of like a Julio Jones ask trade up where they
give away multiple first round assets to get into the top 10 and get somebody like like
neighbors or a dunes a Marvin Harrison Jr.
If something gets turned upside down and he falls, I love that player like I love the
idea of premier top end talent, like the lakes which hasn't been seen in three years
of the draft.
I like it.
I just don't think it's worth that value.
I don't think that you want to give up, you know, three or four top round top two round
picks for one person, when this is a team that really needs to hit on those picks year
over year if they want to keep this like championship window open that everyone's always talking
about.
And so I do think that they need to kind of in wide receiver in particular need to get
two in the top four picks of this draft.
And that would make me feel very comfortable, or one in the first, right, and then one in
the fifth, right.
So I just the two bodies is really what I'm hopeful for in such a deep wide receiver draft.
We've got two bits of kind of sad news that we haven't covered yet.
Vonte Davis, former bills, CB passed away in his grandmother's home in Florida.
And then OJ Simpson has reportedly died of cancer.
And so both of them had kind of, you know, one one far rockier than the other off field
type things.
Um, Vonte Davis retired in kind of mid half, you know, half time in the first game of the
year, and that has been the laughing stock and kind of a punchline for Bill's mafia
for a little bit.
But during his career was a an excellent, you know, defensive back for a time.
And then OJ Simpson, a wall of famer who is also had a Hall of Fame bust, but then also
potentially killed people has retired.
He was the first rusher in the NFL to get 2000 yards.
And then he squandered it all by being potentially a horrible, horrible monster.
So mixed feelings there.
And it's always been kind of a curious, a curious reflection on OJ Simpson.
I think it's funny because of our generation, we were not, you know, alive or watching football
when he was a football player.
And so that that whimsical remembrance of a great, you know, talent isn't anything I
carried.
I remember being a child and watching the horrible, horrible trial of the murder of his wife and
her lover or something like that, his ex-wife and her lover.
And remember, like everybody in the entire nation being glued into the results of that,
that trial and it being kind of incredibly controversial.
So yeah, you know, JJ OJ's legacy as a player is one thing.
But I think to your point, the generation that we grew up in, I remember when our teacher
in third grade paused class so that she could tune in on the radio to listen to what the
OJ verdict was.
There was something that was captivating in a horrific way around OJ and that murder
trial that I think had a generational type of impact for a lot of football and non football
fans moving forward.
It's crazy to think that there are people now who don't know who OJ Simpson was because
to your point, that murder trial captivated our culture in a way that I think is frankly
impossible now with how split our focus is, how customizable all of our algorithms are,
be it streaming or social media.
There are very, very few things good or good or bad that captivate our culture these days.
And OJ, I think, was at the peak of that in the 90s with the 24 seven coverage, the 24
seven news machine covering it, the newspaper print dedicated to it.
You had all these media that were media forms that were, if not in their peak, not necessarily
in the in their nadir as well.
And you were as bombarded as you could have been with information about this case, sans
social media.
So in a way, it is a cultural moment that I think a lot of people has it runs a throughline
through a lot of people.
But it was also this fascinating media moment as well, because when taken in full hindsight,
it is like a time capsule of what the power of traditional media used to be before we
hit this sort of new media era that we are in now where everybody's got a podcast, right?
Everybody's got social media pages.
Everybody has the ability to customize their information feed.
You didn't have that ability back in the day.
So significance and I'm not I'm not saying good or bad moral or amoral significance in
the passing of OJ Simpson and that I am sure it's going to lead to a lot of revisiting.
I would think less about his legacy as a player and more about the lasting impact.
And you could fairly say the lasting negative impact that is off the field of legacy has
had in so many strains of our media culture and our social lives.
And for those of you that hadn't seen it, haven't seen it, OJ Made in America ESPN 30
for 30, I believe an Academy Award winning documentary really encapsulates a lot of that
conversation, I think very, very nicely.
Well, and I think that too, yeah, I've seen a documentary and it hits the right notes
of he was at a time he was a beloved cultural icon.
He was in, you know, he was in the naked gun movies with Leslie Nielsen and he was doing
the Hertz commercials while he was in his playing career.
He was this like super charismatic, lovable person post, you know, his playing career
and turning into an entertainment career both in sports media and then in broader kind of
Hollywood and things like that.
And for that all to come down the way it came down for him to then be on trial for a horrible,
horrific murder was just absolutely shattering to a lot of people who had come to know him
as a figure.
It would be, I don't know if the I don't want to make equivalencies because that's when
we might get roasted by somebody.
But like, I'm trying to think of it'd be like Tom Brady being embroiled in like a multi
murder trial, right?
Like it's that kind of thing where it's a player that had set records and redefined
a position in the league who had who's mostly liked, you know, post career, but then does
something that is accused of and brought on trial.
He was he was acquitted, but brought on trial for something that is absolutely horrific.
And the late Norm, Norm McDonald actually got fired from SNL for repeatedly bringing
up bits about how OJ he believed OJ was guilty of these murders.
Oh, yeah, that though those bits have been making the round on social media.
Again, as well, Norm McDonald, just a comic genius comic genius.
All right, JJ, what do you say we transition from off field news to on field news in the
form of off season round up here for what the rest of the AFC East has done.
So as we have said, it's always important to examine where the bill's roster is relative
to what their competition is going to be.
So JJ, what I'd like to do is I'd like to go in order from team that finished last third
and then second in the division and work our last season and then work our way up to talk
about some of the key additions and subtractions that they face and kind of what their off
season plan might might help us glean as far as what kind of team we think they're going
to be in 2024.
Let's start with last year's last place team, the New England Patriots who because accountability
is a thing on this podcast where it may not be on many other podcaster shows.
I picked Patriots to finish second in the division, first in defensive DVOA and second
in offensive DVOA in the AFC East last year.
Wrong on all three counts.
And JJ, this year, I am not drinking any such Kool-Aid regardless of what the Patriots do.
The Patriots walked into this off season with an obscene $80 million in overall cap space
and Drod Mayo, new head coach, basically came out early on and said they're not going to
be afraid to spend.
All signs then pointed to they're going to sign a bunch of veterans because they're going
to draft a rookie and have a rookie QB on contract and around a rookie QB.
Everybody knows when you're in that cheap QB contract window, you surround them with
capable veteran talent.
JJ, I don't think the Patriots have been successful at that.
Some of the most glaring weaknesses of this team last season outside of the quarterback
room were wide receiver and offensive line.
And the Patriots did shockingly little, shockingly little to build up those two areas to surround
what one would assume would be a rookie QB with at least a base level floor to where
they could perform and you could really see what you had in that QB.
It's been a it's been a underwhelming off season for the Patriots, JJ.
And I think my overall summary of where they're at is that this is not an environment where
you could plug and play a rookie QB into the current roster and expect success.
I think it would be the opposite.
I think if they were to draft a rookie QB, they would want to consider sitting that person
and going with the ultimate bridge QB and Jacobi Bresset who they have signed and allow
that rookie to learn behind Bresset and then forward and then focus a little bit more next
year in cultivating a better free agent class for your unit when the free agent class overall
is going to be better, but you'll still have a significant amount of camp space to JJ.
I just don't think the Patriots have done enough to a be competitive in that division
again, which it didn't seem like they were too far away from but then be bringing a rookie
QB and have them see CJ Stroud kind of immediate success.
What has been your take on the Patriots off season thus far?
It seems like they wasted a lot of time going after Calvin Ridley.
And then when they didn't sign him did not have a plan.
It's you.
I guess that's what my biggest my biggest thought is the Patriots are definitely going
to pick a QB in the first first three picks that I picked third I believe they're definitely
going to pick a QB because they signed Jacobi Bresset and went for after reportedly no other
you know they weren't in on Kirk Cousins or anything like that.
So I believe they're going to pick QB in the first round and then they have nobody really
to like for him to throw to they they added Austin Hooper and let Mike Gisicki go which
for me feels like sort of a one for one swap.
Kendrick Bourne is still solid I think he's a good receiver.
But then that's it.
I mean they have DeMario Douglas.
They added KJ Osborne on a one year four million dollar deal.
Juju Smith Schuster is still there literally forgot he existed in the league until you
know the bills played the Patriots.
Oh that guy.
Taekwondo in Jalen Rager.
Kshon Boot.
TJ Luthor.
Kwan Baker that's sort of their wide receiver.
All nine of their wide receivers present and then for running back in terms of weapons
they still have Remandrius Stevenson I think is amazing.
But then they added Antonio Gibson who I think is a good pass catching back but not a player
who sort of moves the needle like kind of you know resetting or giving you a solid kind
of RB two for all situations if Remandrius Stevenson has any more injury issues.
So it's interesting to me and you mentioned offensive tackle being an issue they still
have Michael Anwenyu who they re-signed and they did sign Chukwoma Okorafor who I think
is a solid signing and so they've made those sorts of moves but they're just like it's
to me it just seems like the kind of team that didn't have a great plan didn't use
its assets with so much money they did not get a single player to add to the team who
I think is like a real needle mover.
To me they just look like the same team that they were last year except now they're going
to have a rookie QB and pass catching running back right like they re-signed they put a
lot of effort and money into re-signing some of their stars which I think is smart.
They ended up getting Kyle Duggar back on a four year deal that was probably one of the
best safeties in the league but to me it just doesn't seem like they did enough to add any
pressure or kind of put any stress on the bills or the dolphins at the top of the UFC's.
This was a team JJ that finished 32nd in pass block win rate on that offensive line when
you're talking about getting a rookie QB into the mix here for this New England Patriots
team you've got a block for them like to have teams learned nothing from the Bryce Young
experiment in Carolina where he was running for his life behind the line all of his rookie
season.
To me JJ I've never thought the Patriots were fully sold on taking a QB with the third
overall pick I've always thought that's been more media buzz when you look at overall on
this roster defensively they tend to be more solid but offensively this is a team where
the cupboard is really really bare and to your point the only major move that you made
in the off season on offensive line was to bring back Onowenu who could feature a guard
or feature a tackle who was already part of an offensive line that had the worst pass
block win rate in the league so not an upgrade but at least a stabilizer for what was a very
mediocre below average line.
So to me they've got to upgrade at several positions the skill positions being one of
them I'm not as sold as you are on Stevenson Stevenson actually had some really good holes
and lanes of that offensive line was able to create for him last year and I just don't
think he's got the burst to take advantage of those I just think he's kind of like this
plotting runs really upright very square type of running back and I just don't think I don't
think he is someone that you get scared of at the skill position level so they need to
upgrade a tackle they need to upgrade at their interior of their offensive line they need
a QB they need a wide receiver tight end to your point they traded Mike Koseki for Mike
Koseki Jr. and then they don't have anybody in the wide receiver room that I think you
could say is a number one or let's say that they don't want a number one let's say they
want an amalgamation of capable receivers I don't even think the floor on that room
is that high because we saw them last year with Matt Jones and a what will be a similar
offense this year granted with a new QB now Jacoby Percet you could argue is going to
be an upgrade over back Jones I think we could all agree with that but they haven't done
enough to me JJ to upgrade this offense in a meaningful way the disparity between defensive
production for this team last year and offensive production was equaled in gap only by what
the New York Jets were able to do but the Jets at least won some games last season to
me the New England Patriots should absolutely do one of two things with the third pick trade
back with a team like Minnesota or the Giants who might be looking to get up and get their
QB of the future get a windfall of draft capital and premium picks this season and next season
and start to build out a core and take a guy like bonix on the second round or take a flyer
on a kid like Spencer Rattler right in the third or fourth round but this is not a team
to me JJ that seems situated to bring in their QB of the future and have that person succeed
they already swung and missed with Matt Jones and you could argue the situation Jones came
into is far better than whatever this rookie QB is going to be coming into should they
choose to draft one to me the the Patriots need to defer especially with the miss rate
on first round QB's being as high as 70% in some draft years I just don't think the Patriots
should dabble in these waters right now trade back or take Marvin Harrison Jr. or the wide
receiver one who you think is best on your board take that person at three or trade back
and start to accumulate some younger cheaper cost control tailored for the future.
Absolutely I think that they could they need so much help that's the problem is they need
a complete rebuild and we know from watching the Buffalo Bills when Josh Allen was a rookie
and kind of pushed into starting that he had no help from the wide receiver room they had
a a minimum floor wide receiver room which is similar to kind of where the the Patriots
wide receiver room is right now and it was it wasn't until Cole Beasley stuff on dig
some of those premium talents at that at that point of their careers were brought in that
Josh Allen flourished and so I just don't see I don't see a QB they take it three really
having the capacity to do anything special with the talent around him on this roster
I think you're right I think it's a multiple multiple year rebuild I will say that their
defense is probably going to still be very very solid they did not lose a lot but they
also added some like small key pieces here and there so I do think that you know it's
probably going to be the same thing we saw last year as a Bills fan I hope they take
a quarterback with third pick and I hope that that quarterback is another massive bust
because that just means another four or five years of the Bills you know having the Patriots
number while they try to figure it out and probably another coaching change so I'm I'm
all about that possibility but you're right if I'm a Patriots fan if I'm Brandon I want
them to either hit it out of the park with QB who makes everyone about him better because
that's the kind of talent they need given this this room on offense or trade back like
you said and get a bounty of picks you can use to build that core.
Yeah absolutely and I think Josh's first season in Buffalo is a really good cop because that
was not a roster that was intended to be passed over to a rookie QB there is a risk in taking
a QB with the third pick having Berset go down and then your best laid plans go up in
smoke because now you've got to play this rookie behind in a less than ideal developmental
situation so I mean to me if I'm the Patriots and I am a team granted this was all Belichick
but if I'm an organization that has not shown the ability to build an offense outside of
having the greatest quarterback of all time like if I have not been able to build a consistent
offense without that person I don't know that I trust the track record of this unit yet
to really thread that needle on a rookie QB pick and then use the rest of this draft
capital to select meaningful pieces to support that rookie.
I think this has to be a spaghetti at the end of the day.
I think this has to be a spaghetti at the wall situation for the Patriots.
They just need to have as many irons in the draft fire as they can and to me that would
be a trade back.
So JJ we're going to we're going to rank this team on a brand new scale that we're rolling
out here for Buffalo bread on a scale of chicken wings for being the scariest and the hottest
one being the most mild and least terrifying to you on a scale of one to four chicken wings.
How much do the Patriots scare you to clarify are these wings with blue cheese.
The wings are always with blue cheese.
Thank you.
The fact that you had to ask that question you don't know me after all these years you
don't know me.
No that was a softball to endear ourselves to Bill's mafia.
We're pandering.
I would say half of a one like it's the kind of chicken wing spice level that you're like
elderly grandmother who like always says don't make it too hot when you just use black pepper
in a recipe.
That's the that's I have no fear about this Patriots team and that's a Patriots team that
built they split with the bills last year.
But I think that that split was more about the defensive upheaval with the injuries and
figuring themselves out and then it was the actual quality of the roster because that was
an outlier for the whole season for the Patriots.
Mac Jones to date and probably forever Mac Jones only career fourth quarter come back
against the Buffalo Bills.
So let me posit this then rather than half a chicken wing how about we go with one boneless
swing right.
How about we introduce that not a real chicken wing.
Yeah.
A chicken boneless wing.
You get a chicken nugget Patriots.
All right Brandon is not going to be happy about that for the mock draft next week.
All right next let's move on to let's move on to the New York Jets who I mean JJ we all
knew what the hype was going in for them last season.
Aaron Rodgers amazing defense finally going to unlock Garrett Wilson here as he takes
a step above his second season.
We all know what happened with Rogers getting injured the Achilles terror the drama around
will he won't he come back.
Zach Wilson's complete and utter inefficacy and then what is really bubbled up in the
offseason is just a lot of like ego and drama and paranoia in the New York Jets locker room
which I don't know I found that I found necessarily surprising you know based on some of the Diana
Roussini reporting I think around what that squad was like last season.
But JJ nonetheless they finished third in the AFC East last year.
They are returning Aaron Rodgers.
They have to me this is like the Yolo season for the New York Jets.
They have added a lot of veteran talent on short term or one year deals.
Many of these veterans having questionable injury histories they are really trying to
elevate the floor of this offense so that what will probably be another stellar defense
will not go wasted like it did last year.
So JJ what are your thoughts on the New York Jets offseason and where do we feel they are
as far as a threat to the Buffalo Bills go.
So I think that you know we you and I would have both agreed in the offseason in 2023
that the New York Jets New Jersey Jets in Florham Park, New Jersey needed to they needed
to have a better offensive line for a less mobile veteran quarterback pocket passer like
Aaron Rodgers and they didn't right they did not invest in that they brought a bunch of
Aaron Rodgers buddies who are on big time ticket deals and were very poor performers
over with him and let him kind of determine the roster and that seemed to be a massive
failure.
So this offseason they decided to double down and pick up Tyrone Smith the eight time Pro
Bowl you know one selection on a one year contract however he's missed 37 games over
the past four seasons like that is not not a tenable the Cowboys using him last year
they kept him out of all live practice drills not just like oh you're not going to hit today
but like all live practice drills where people needed to move their legs and move in space
and have contact with each other which showed in his play because as much as he's been
an amazing tackle during his career he definitely looked he looked slow old and ineffective last
season and so it's really it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me and again as a
Bill's fan I'm relishing this I'm loving the fact that they bring in kind of Mike Williams
who tours ACL last last season and work in week three and he turns 30 in October during
the season has always been an injury risk they bring in him in from the Chargers they
kind of double down they get Tyrone Taylor as a backup QB to try to like have an insurance
policy in case Aaron Rodgers gets hurt again they get John Simpson who's a solid that's
a solid sign that's one good solid signing so they have a replacement for left guard
Lake and Tomlinson and that's part of the rebuild and so I like that that's a good pick
but they picked him as like as a hopeful prospect over some really kind of slam dunk prospects
like Robert Hunt and Jonah Jackson and free agency while having kind of the money to do
things and then a kicker a punter you know and some defensive pieces are kind of the
big big signings they made so signing one left tackle and one left guard and having the
left tackle be a injury riddled you know veteran and the left guard be a hopeful project is
just like you know and I want to say John Simpson is probably going to be pretty I like him
but I'm just I don't know man as a bill's fan I'm loving it because I just don't think
that they have done enough to ensure against Aaron Rodgers going down again or to provide
enough protection reliable protection snap after snap you know all you need is is kind
of a couple of long drives and then I bet you see Tyron Smith come off with whomever they
have as a backup.
Yeah and the addition of of Simpson and Morgan Moses both from the Baltimore Ravens it's
a signal to me that they really want to try to make Breeze Hall more of a focal point of
this offense which I think is smart.
The question is is Aaron Rodgers going to allow for it and then do you have the confidence
that Nathaniel Hackett is going to be the guy that schemes it.
I mean to me I've seen a lot of media personalities say this is a high risk high reward type of
offensive offseason for the Jets but I don't even think it's that high reward and I don't
think the Jets are looking necessarily are expecting this to go from an offense that
could barely score 17 to an offense that will consistently score 27.
I think they want to field an offense that is going to close the efficiency gap with
what is a world beater defense and still will be next season and I think they're just trying
to get to average on offense much as was the expectation last year because last year they
went in with knowing holes at wide receiver two and offensive line this season they've
patched they've put a patchwork together or some veteran presences that if healthy will
be okay but then you still have Nathaniel Hackett scheming this offense and calling plays
for this offense and these have Robert Salah who jury is out if this dude can be a head
coach at the NFL and then you have the toxicity of last season still permeating this clubhouse
allegedly the one smart move I think the Jets made was bringing in Tyrod Taylor as their
backup QB no one ever wants to see a player get hurt even a player is annoying and self
important as Aaron Rodgers no one ever wants to see a player get hurt no one should ever
root for those things but in the inevitability that you're now 40 plus year old quarterback
who's coming off an Achilles injury does have to miss time next season behind a patchwork
offensive line you at least have arguably the most reliable backup in the league and
Tyrod Taylor to kind of steer the shit question is what do you do is Zach Wilson because no
no one seems interested in trading for him at this point so he is also still sitting
out there on the roster so is there a world where Zach Wilson is like practice squad eligible
and he's like your emergency third QB like that whole situation is still looming there
but to me JJ this is a yellow season because if this season does not work out from a personnel
standpoint for the for the Jets, Salah won't be there Douglas won't be there and that is
a team that is looking for a reset and even if this team makes the playoffs this season
with a 40 year old quarterback and all these veteran additions on offense it is not like
you are building anything for the future outside of Garrett Wilson so the question of sustainability
of the success of this team is going to come into question as well.
I think they are putting a lot of their eggs not in the Aaron Rodgers back basket but in
the this defense is really good basket and is not seen the type of regression to the
mean that other defenses have seen over the past few seasons.
I still think it's a really good defense and I think they are going to try to strike while
a lot of these young guys are cheap and cost controlled and in their prime because they
just paid Quinn and Williams I want to say they are going to have to pay a sauce gardener
and then you got a real live question about what you got to do with DJ Reed as well once
he comes due for an extension so JJ yeah go ahead.
And to just kind of piggyback off of the defensive line conversation with the Jets they did something
so curious to me which was Bryce Huff leaves and signs with the Philadelphia Eagles as
a free agent and they trade for Hassan Redick.
They trade draft capital for Hassan Redick.
So they trade a third that could be a second if Hassan Redick has an excellent season to
the Eagles for a pass rusher who in mind you has been good the last couple seasons I think
it's a good addition but he's over 30 is at or over 30 and they let a in his 20s in his
prime pass rusher who I think you and I would both agree I was afraid of when the bills
played against them.
So in limited snaps that guy as a situational as a situational like third long and late
down pass rusher he was always in in Josh Allen's grill and so I think that it was a
to me I'm just like that's such a curious move that projects to me potentially that
Bryce Huff didn't want to sign with the Jets which may be a reflection of how he feels
this team build is going because he was a situational only pass rusher Austin he might
just be like send me to a team or I'm going to a team when a sign with a team that tells
me I'm going to be their number one defensive end kind of on the three four defense because
he's an outside linebacker who's a situational pass rusher with the Jets and if that's the
case you know I get why he walked but just so I'm like oh you know you could have afforded
Bryce Huff with the money that you're agreeing to pay Hassan Redick and you got older and
you got you know slightly less upside.
Yeah it is it's this is so the variance on the Jets is either they could finish last
or they could finish first and there's not I don't think room for an in between the season.
So JJ on our chicken wing scale for being the hottest and scariest and one or boneless
being the least scary.
Where do you think the Jets fall this is a tough one for me because that defense is so
good but where do you think the Jets fall.
So for me it's it's a three if Aaron Rodgers is healthy for 14 or more games and it's a
two if he's healthy for 10 or less games.
I'm going to say I'm going to say two and I'm going to stay firm at two and here's the
reason why that is a scary defense but that is a defense that was built to be day ball
and Dorsey.
I think Brady wants to run a lot of heavier sets I think he wants to run the ball he wants
to exploit short area yardage and that is not not the strength of this New York Jets
defense.
The Jets want to put a roof on you down the field they want to lock down the boundaries
they want to force you into passing into the intermediate middle parts of the field and
I just don't think Brady is going to take that bait and I don't think the Jets have
the ability when they condense down to really lock down in a similar way over the top.
This is a team that wants to basically play a nickel package like the bills do they want
to rush for and get home with four if the bills can establish the run game and stunt
some of that some of that pass rush heaviness that the Jets are going to bring to the table.
I don't think the Jets have the personnel to adjust so I actually think the Jets defense
if Brady sticks to his core philosophy is a I'm not saying the bills will dominate what
I'm saying is it's now a more favorable matchup for the bills as opposed to what it was for
Dayball and Dorsey who wanted to drop Josh back or put Josh and shotgun 99% of the time
and let those Jets pass rushers have a field day with him.
I don't think Brady is going to put Allen in the same situation and I don't think the
Jets are set to deal with this kind of retro this kind of retro offensive look.
So I'm going to go to and regardless of what happens in the drafter with Rogers, I do think
the bills are should be a scary matchup for the Jets offense and defense wise.
Well, and I agree completely.
I think that the the New York Jets haven't they have an excellent defense as we've talked
about several times in this segment, but their linebackers beyond CJ Mosley are not run stuffers.
I guess Chas Sarat out of North Carolina is is could be considered kind of that that downhill
fumper.
But most of them are lighter coverage type type linebackers.
And I give me every single snap of Spencer Brown spilling out to take on sauce gardener
on a zone run like every snap because sauce gardener is not he is physical with receivers.
He is weak when he has to kind of fit the run.
And that's I think why they play the defense they play in the similar ways that the the
bills, you know, try to hide certain players in their defensive backfield who they know
are not kind of at the muster to to hold the point of attack.
And I think I think I agree completely in that the bills will be able to handle this
team in terms of playing a more physical style of football and kind of running it straight
at them.
Which is again, you know, yet another endorsement of the bills to go out and get Breyland Allen
or Audric Estime in the fourth round, if they're available, to have kind of that thunder to
cook lightning.
Thunder to cook lightning.
I love it.
Yes, absolutely.
All right, JJ.
Now let's move on to the team that I think we could both say safely has been the chief
competitor to the bills over the last two seasons, the Mike McDaniel led Miami Dolphins.
JJ, I was puzzled by the dolphins off season last year, because I feel like they will fully
ignored areas of need for themselves.
And because they were so fast and schemed so well and their schedule was so weak last
season, I think they were able to hide for a lot of their deficiencies.
I don't know that they're going to be able to hide it this year.
They lost a lot of talent on the offensive and defensive side of the ball, particularly
in the trenches where this team was its weakest.
So last year, the offensive line was a problem for this team.
And it is crazy to think that they had a 4,000 yard passer into a tongue of a Loa, but they
had the 30th best.
So third worst, past block win rate in the entire league.
The dolphins 30 jets 31 Patriots 32, respectively, JJ, and past block win rate last season to
tell you how bad those O lines were.
But because of the we'll say hubris and intelligence of one Mike McDaniel, this is a team that
feels like it can be somewhat quarterback proof.
And because of how quick they want to get the ball out, they can also be somewhat offensive
line proof.
But we saw when good defenses shut down the anticipatory windows the tool wanted to throw
throw to last season, this was not a team that could stay with good, even average defenses.
They really did feast on a lot of weaker competition last year.
So JJ, they've had losses to areas that were already, in my opinion, weak for them.
They lost Robert Hunt to your to your point.
They lost Christian Wilkins.
Thank freaking God.
Yeah, the defensive line.
Thank goodbye to that guy.
Have fun in Vegas, man, whatever.
We'll see you once a year, maybe.
Right.
And they've tried to patch patch it together with guys like one Jordan Poyer, right?
Shaq Barrett, linebacker formerly of Tampa Bay.
They've brought in John O. Smith, who I think is a sneaky good signing for them, because
they really did have a big hole.
They did have a big hole in their their tight end room last season.
And I think a guy like Smith, while New England could not unlock his natural athletic traits,
I think I think in Miami he could be a could be a force.
But you know, Isaiah, when they bring back, you know, they've got Kendall Fuller on the
roster now, Brexen Berrios, they bring back JJ.
To me, this is a team that that is in a worse position than it was in 2023.
And they've doubled down on a lot of the same holes.
And again, they don't have a lot of draft capital or cap space heading into September
to really fill a lot of these holes.
So they need another wide receiver that was proven last year, especially with Tyree Kill
and Jalen Waddle trading off on injuries throughout the course of the season.
They didn't have a reliable third option.
Maybe Smith can be that for them.
I don't know.
This is not an offensive line that held up when to his window and disciplinary window
closed and he couldn't get the ball out in 2.3 seconds.
JJ, I know they're fast and I know McDaniel is a good coach, but this is back to back
off seasons for me, where it seems like they think they feel like they're the smartest
guys in the room.
And as a result of that, they can always scheme or work their way out of, to me, what are
the obvious, obvious personnel issues and personnel needs?
What is your take so far on the dolphins offseason, JJ?
Well, it's interesting because I think that they have net losses on both offensive and
defensive line.
And by net losses, you might look at it and be like, well, they have more bodies than they
did kind of before free agency started on both lines.
But I would say that there's, you know, two, there are two signings that would be considered
somewhat significant to depth and then to the center that they have in place, you know,
to Conor McDermott or is that their center that Conor Williams?
Conor Williams.
Yeah, Conor Williams.
Their best offensive linemen were Conor Williams and Robert Hunt.
Conor Williams is a free agent because he tore his ACL and is like waiting to see, you
know, how that recovers before a team signs him, could come back to the dolphins, but
they, you know, put insurance against that by signing, who is it, the guy out of the
Tex or Titans?
Gosh, I'm going to look it up here.
So they signed Aaron Brewster, the center from the Titans to Aaron Brewer.
Yeah, Aaron Brewer.
Brewer, they signed him to fill that hole and lost Robert Hunt, lost Conor Williams.
And so really they got worse because then they also have a backup kind of a backup rotational
guard.
They signed some of their, you know, win and Jones re-signed, but they did not get better
there.
And then on the defensive line, when you, you know, you leave Christian Wilkins out in
the cold because you're waiting on the contract, you know, that you're going to have to pay
to Tua, he goes to Vegas and you get worse there too.
So in the trenches where I think you highlighted their pass rush, when, when rate was terrible,
they lost their two best players, one during the season, then one in free agency and replaced
them with two middling players.
And then on the defensive line, which wasn't, you know, I think it's, it's curious because
they lost Jalen Phillips and who's the pass rusher from the other edge from Bradley Chubb.
They lost them both in season and so neither of them is going to be back until at the earliest
playoffs and they're probably not going to be back at form due to the nature of their,
their injuries, Achilles and an ACL.
I just don't see, I think that's the thing is we focus on what the teams have done in
the trenches first because that matters every snap.
You're wide receiver, you're running back.
They're not going to touch the ball every snap, but a defensive and defensive lineman
is going to touch an opponent every single snap.
And so they got net worse on both sides of the trenches.
So and then you have Tyree Kill who's one year older and during the latter part of the
season did not look as bursty or speedy as his, you know, incredible lightning self usually
because, you know, teams were playing him too physical and he was being taken out of
the games.
Yeah.
Last season, I think, and I've got to look at the metrics because there's great metrics
out there from PFF, you know, Stathead and some other, some other places that show you
the success rate of a wide receiver against press coverage.
And it seemed like last season JJ teams were pressing Tyree Kill more and more.
I mean, I know the Ligarius Snead video went viral of him.
What did he'll say?
Pressed him into Cancun or something like that.
Like he'll, he'll was dominated in that playoff game against KC.
There's no doubt about it.
But but it's a team that listen, and I know I'm on an island with this because I know
the media loves Mike McDaniel and how cool and smart he is.
This is a team that feels still one dimensional.
And it's a team that feels like good teams and good coaches have figured out.
And it doesn't feel like anyone is scared of this team this season.
It'll be interesting to see how their schedule shakes out and what the cadence of that schedule
looks like, because again, this is still a roster and a scheme that is built for beating
bad teams.
But if they got to play a few more winning teams, JJ or a few more playoff teams, I don't
know that this dolphin squad is going to be as successful as they have been the past
couple of seasons.
It just they don't have enough draft capital or enough cap space to really get better in
a lot of these key areas.
So it'll be interesting to see what they do.
They've got the 21st pick like the like the Patriots to me, they are a trade down candidate
in the first round, particularly if there is a team like a Carolina that wants to get
up and maybe get a wide receiver or a tackle that is unexpectedly dropped.
But then again, if you're the dolphins, you should be taking that tackle.
Or if it's Jackson powers Johnson, or if who's the Duke kid, Graham Barton, Graham Barton.
Yeah.
Yep.
If he's there, right?
Even a Zach Frazier to me, who I think a lot, I think a surprising amount of teams will
have a first round grade on.
I think if you're the dolphins, you really got to consider trading back with a team like
Baltimore or Kansas City, which is not ideal because they're your AFC competitors.
But you could still get a great offensive lineman there and accumulate more draft capital
because JJ, I don't know what they do.
And to your point, they still need to figure out if they're going to sign to it to the
long term.
What's going to be due for at least an average per year contract of around $40 million?
Everyone is using the Daniel Jones line now to bargain for their clients.
And regardless of what you think about Tua, he's better than Daniel Jones.
So absolutely.
I will add one more point and that's that their defensive backfield, I think, got worse.
Zaving Howard was not a plus starter for the last year, probably year and a half.
And so parting ways with him was smart.
But to add Jordan Porter, who I think we both love, I know you do and I do too, has meant
so much to Buffalo during his time there.
He is at the end of his career and it's noticeable.
His ability to kind of mix it up and specifically his ability to click and close when he reads
the play at speed is almost gone at this point.
I think that what we saw with him in his ball production, kind of, you know, playing the
deep third and then his amazing, you know, run fits in Buffalo, those things you saw
every game, game in and game out for four years in this past season, you didn't, you
didn't see that, right?
Like you saw it in fits and starts.
It was like a, you know, an overhead light with a kind of a loose wire.
Every once in a while, the bulb came on, but it wasn't consistent.
And so I think that that was a kind of worse.
I mean, Javan Hollins studies, he's great.
So I think that they have that.
But if either one of them is hurt and no Jordan Porter's missed some time of the past two
seasons with injury, even though he's a warrior, I think that they're kind of weak behind them.
And then for their, their backup to their nickel cornerback at this point in time is
Seran Neil.
And as a Bill's fan, I was in panic mode every time that was the, that was the immediate
next backup for the bills going into a game.
If they didn't have somebody else to come in, I was worried.
And so I think that that's, you know, their defensive backfield got worse this off season.
And Jalen Ramsey, I think, you know, coming into a healthy season is certainly an upgrade
over any of the cornerbacks they've had over the past couple of years.
Kendall Fuller is a good signing as an understricted from Washington.
And so, but their safety position and their nickel, I don't think is any better.
So JJ, let's get to chicken when right chicken wing rankings here.
So again, this is the, this is a team that has had back to back seasons in the postseason
early exits.
And over the last three seasons playoffs included, the Buffalo Bills are six and one against
the squad.
JJ, how scary in a chicken wing term is this team to you?
They're a four boneless or a three boned in wing for me.
And the four boneless is, I say this, let me expand on that.
It's because I think that on paper and what they produce indicates to me that they're
always going to be neck and neck or ahead of the bills for the division lead, because
if they're playing a lesser schedule, they're going to be up there because they beat up
on small on, you know, smaller competition with, you know, with, you know, Tyree kill
with Tua delivering the ball, they still have that speed.
And Devin A chain came out and it was an amazing pick for them.
I think there's like, they're still threatening and they're still offensive production is
always going to win this game.
And so I think for that reason, they're a four, but it's boneless because against
premier competition, a lot of that talent folds.
Yeah.
And this this might be the most controversial rating I give up there with my Patriots Kool-Aid
drinking last season.
This team is a one to me.
Again, six and one over the last three seasons against the Josh Allen led Buffalo Bills.
And if you want to go back further, we know Josh has owned this particular squad.
At this point, I think the league has caught up to what McDaniel is doing offensively.
We'll see if they can piece it together on defense.
I know they brought in a new defensive coordinator that a lot of league circles are very high
on, you know, could be a future head coach.
But it this is a team to me, kind of like the kind of like the LA Chargers with Brandon
Staley.
They think they're smarter than everybody and they don't realize that everyone has kind
of caught up to what they want to do.
So unless I see some sort of adjustment from the squad and offensive philosophy, I am not
scared.
I am not scared of the Miami Dolphins.
I would be more scared of the Jets at this point than I would be of the Dolphins based
on roster build, but recent history.
Well, this this episode has been braggadocious, man.
I don't think about where we've been.
We've been like, man, bills are going to have a losing record.
Oh, top 10 pick 2025.
Here we come.
Right.
But then when you take a look at where the rest of the AFC East is, I think I think this
I think it is safe to say that other than the Jets offensively, everybody's overall
floor got worse in the AFC East.
So the question is, is the bills floor now lower than the rest of these other teams?
And I actually think it's a lot.
It's a lot more positive for the bills than we think when you take the bills and isolation.
Oh my God, Stefan Diggs is gone.
Oh my God, we lost Jordan Poyer.
We lost all these leaders on the team.
If you take it in isolation, it's devastating.
But you take it into the context of the teams are going to be have to play six times a year
and ultimately get get through to win the division.
It's not it's not as apocalyptic, I think, as we thought it would be because a lot of
these teams, they're in their own versions of resets and rebuilds to and they have not
been as stewarded as well as the bills.
So if you were to ask me today, I still think the floor on the Buffalo Bills win, when floor
is seven or eight, and I think the ceiling is 10.
But I think 10 wins this division.
I think that I'm with you, though.
And the thing you said there that kind of perked me up was stewardship.
And I'm just thinking about these other rosters.
And we study the Patriots, Jets and Dolphins as much as kind of any team in the league,
of course, because they're in the division.
I can't think of many outstanding new young talents that the any three, any of those three
teams have gotten in the past few years, other than, you know, Wilson and sauce gardener for
the Jets.
I mentioned Devon A chain for the dolphins.
And like, it's not they don't have a lot of, you know, they haven't been drafting well,
I think is the is the problem.
The Jets have a couple more hits, I think, than the bills, but they've also been picking
so high year over year.
And so it's a question of like, who's who's building their rosters the right way, draft,
develop and resign.
And I think it's just the bills and then maybe as a distant second, the Jets.
And by that measure, it makes sense that for you, Dan, your ratings are a two or a three
for the Jets.
And then, or I'm sorry, a hard two for the Jets and then a one for everyone else.
I'm a little bit higher on the dolphins, because I still think that their their offense can
produce and kind of cause some problems in the in the division.
But yeah, I mean, when you look at the bills, you know, hitting on Osiris Torrance, Dalton
Kincaid, who are both kind of really bright stars after just one year production, James
Cook, Terrell Bernard, even, you know, somebody like Christian Benford, right, a solid starting
cornerback picked up in the leader rounds.
The bills have hit on a lot of things.
And their their win rate in the draft has been pretty good the last two seasons.
So really looking forward to that and kind of taking hope from it.
Absolutely, JJ.
Absolutely.
So that is it for our AFC East roundup here.
So next week, we will dive into our very, very fun friends of the pod, not friends of
the bills, three round mock draft with all of our various host guests and fans of other
AFC East teams coming in to do a mock draft with us leading into the real draft, which
is blessedly only two weeks away at this point.
So until then, for all of you listening at home, like, share and subscribe, wherever
you get your podcasts, Google, Apple, Spotify and as always go bills.