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Let's just do it. Oh shit. What's the brand?

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The back control was not here.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent validator teams.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent validator teams.

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I'm glad you did. Because the other three of us don't actually know the words.

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I can leave now, right? That's my job done.

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I was wondering if there'd be a moment of, and this is your host,

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Bendy from the chat. Well, no, I'm Ben Davis from the chat.

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Ben Davis. Oh, so hi, Bendy. I don't think believe we've met. I didn't even say hi in the

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fucking pre-show shit there. Well, not, you know, we haven't spoken in IRO, well,

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this isn't IRO, but you know, in person. I don't believe anyway. I could be wrong.

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I've got a terrible fucking memory. I think we cross paths on a space for about five minutes once.

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Oh, but I wasn't looking at you. So that doesn't even. Exactly. It was like radio, right? It doesn't count.

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Yeah. Well, welcome again to the chat with some of the regulars here. It's because,

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have you, well, have you been on the show with any of us before? Or is it just the stand-ins show?

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It was the alternative game of notes, really, with Rahma standing in for now and funky playing

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the role of Schultz and then Joe, I guess, was you, sir, but then he just left. And then Jake

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obviously did his thing and she'll bow down. Probably the best other than the one where we

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will, when Juno was coming back to life, right? That mammoth one. Still our most watched episode

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is people watching the invariant checks go by on the screen while we all sat there and said,

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when is it, when the fuck is this going to end? That's what, that's what's new trance launch

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reminded me of. What, to stand there watching the, watching it go by? The, the, the, the, the, the

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the power just like it's nearly there. It's nearly there. Definitely going to be there soon.

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It's going to happen very soon. Then you just wait forever. I remember that with, I forget,

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somebody else launched it took forever way back in the day to launch it was Ebamos or something

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before maybe on the restart. I remember it would be like, it would slowly grow up, it would slowly

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grow like 37%, 38 and somebody would drop out 37, 36. Fuck. That'd be your all day.

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Now, before we get too far down the line, I should point out that the fray has left us with the drill

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tweet of the week for the photo. Oh, he sent us a random. Wait, hold on a second. You're the most

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critical person of the drill of the week and you're over here like, hold on, we need to

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turn around because this is really important. He's turning around at it. Hold up. Hold up.

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Wait, you guys, fuck up for a second. I, I mean, I believe this is, yeah, it says for tomorrow.

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And then there's, yeah, he DM'd it to me. So I can, but I hadn't assumed that we would do

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something that was like on the agenda within the first five minutes of the show. That's crazy.

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Right. That's crazy. It's done. Well, I mean, no one really likes this segment. So maybe it's

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good to get it out of the way. That's right. Nobody likes it. So let's do it first. Yeah. Makes

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sense. It's like the starting act kind of deal. Okay. So in my standing for Fray, shall I please?

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Yeah. Yeah. You'll, you'll have to do it. But, you know, just to be fair, like usually the fray

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comes on dribbles a bunch of bullshit. No one wants to hear and then says the drill tweet,

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which no one also wants to hear. And then we actually talk about something. So last week,

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last week, he did for four minutes. He bulldozed right over you last week with the two,

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because you were trying to bring up something else and he just kept going with the drill tweet.

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I had to go back and listen to it because you just kept going and it just never, he just,

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that's it. It was all over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go check it out. It was a big bore.

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More eaten damn man. All right. I actually, I've never had a drill tweet read not in an English

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accent. So I think we should keep that going. Okay. Right. Cause it's just not the same coming

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from it's, I think it's, it's no, it's has more, more, more, more nobility to it. I think maybe.

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Yeah. It sounds more important when others say it sounds less like trash. Yeah.

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Yeah. Definitely. Well, so I'm fairly trashy. I'll give it a go. I will be hung by my ankles

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and displayed at the zoo until I can prove to the sheriff and city hall that I have

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centered myself with Christ. That's the one he picked.

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Okay. That's what he said. I just always feel like after the drill tweet, I just had to like

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bask in it to let it really sink in and like come to its full term. I feel like they have higher

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meanings that I just can't grasp. That's a simple thing. And when they're read in a British accent,

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it makes it even sound more like they're supposed to have some sort of higher meaning that

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I simply can't grasp because I'm simple. It's like, am I the wrong one here?

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I think I must be. Yeah, I'm like over in the corner chewing on the end of my pencil.

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What? Someone say something?

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I'm like, your mouth is your shirt. Yeah.

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It reminds me of trying to read like,

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Renaissance literature or something like that, where I'm like, I know these are all words,

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but I actually don't know what it says. This particular arrangement of these words is just

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beyond me. It's too much. Too much. Too much for this time of the day.

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It's a great accent.

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And then you just send straight into Sean Connery's.

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So guys, I'm looking at this spreadsheet and I can't make heads and tails of it.

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First time I looked at it, a couple of months to be honest.

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A couple of months.

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A couple of months.

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You are here.

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A couple of months.

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It's just like random words on the like just look, it doesn't make any sense.

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It's just like random words scattered around the place ever since I stopped,

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you know, coming in here and tidying things up.

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Apparently the world's going to shit.

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Well, most of the stuff is all related to, I mean, everything we had in here before,

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we pulled a couple of things forward from a few weeks ago, but there was an article on

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AI regulation versus crypto regulation. I wanted to bring forward, which was kind of funny.

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And then this week, obviously, was all this coin base and Binance bullshit here in the U.S.

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with the with the SEC. So that, I don't know if we really want to talk about or if we give a shit,

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but I mean, we're on the right page and 65.

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All right, let's start with that.

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I mean, it doesn't even have the right people in here.

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Or the guests for that matter.

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I didn't even know it just came up.

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They didn't even have a guest.

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So delete that.

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I mean, technically, Bendy's not a guest. He's on the second slot.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Am I now officially like a friend of the show?

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You're catching up to know.

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Yeah, you are.

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I didn't miss any for a year. I missed like one or two and they're like,

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oh, fuck never shows up anymore.

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You broke the streak and then that was it.

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Down the live.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. When nobody's giving the phrase shit because he's busy yapping at Aptos.

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That's right.

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Yeah, he is at Aptos yapping IRL.

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I mean, though, you know, like, yeah, I mean, to be fair, like if it was,

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if I had the option, go on the potty, talk to the boys or go and yelp for business,

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I'd be at yelping.

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Fuck yeah.

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It's like midnight though.

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It's a little bit actually not.

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So like, well, whatever, it's 1115 or something.

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There's a way is that?

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Where is he?

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Amsterdam.

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Amsterdam.

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Yeah.

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I believe that I believe that that I was going to say that time of night in Amsterdam

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is the best time for yelp.

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It is.

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That's true.

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Yeah, like the yelping doesn't happen during the conference.

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It happens like out on the street with like, you know, you meet the people at the conference,

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you get their dates and then you follow up with them later on.

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And then you go and get drunk and do drugs and then you dance at the Malady rave until

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the roar in the morning and you sleep outside.

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And you sleep outside the air and B and B.

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Sleep on the patch.

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Yeah.

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You know, and then you make a contact for life.

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So, you know, that's.

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And you retain your foundation delegations forever and your validates business actually

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serves a profit.

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Well, no.

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Well, what the fuck are you talking about?

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I want to live in your fucking crazy world where you're made profits.

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I feel like I feel like that's it's like that Charlie's chocolate factories fucking

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Rosie world with all the oompa lumpas and shit running around.

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I mean, is that Rosie, though the oompa lumpas were glorified slaves and like the

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ocean issues involved here.

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Oh, my god.

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There's a big chocolate river and people are probably just fucking straight out of the

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gate slapping the spin on fucking.

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I want to pick this up, though, because the oompa lumpas only value chocolate.

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So they're being paid.

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They're being paid in the only currency they care about just because it's not living in

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your fiat world.

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Chelsea, you know, that's outrageous.

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So in actual fact, it's more of an analog for crypto.

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Yeah, they're being given these lovely delicious chocolate tokens.

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Yeah, if we don't care about fucking fiat, it's just that that sweet, sweet, you know,

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she knows shit going.

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But it does.

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But it does turn out that that chocolate is now in fact a commodity, not a commodity, a security.

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It's a security.

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So, you know, you got to pay tax on your chocolate.

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But what is the I don't this whole security debate, like I'm a bit of a dumb dumb, I feel

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like, because of this whole thing.

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I thought I knew things.

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But then, like, when they saw it's a security, like, what are they saying?

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It shares in a company.

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Is that what's happening here?

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Explain it to me, you sir.

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But I feel like you get it.

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Yeah, you explain to us.

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I feel like I have a decent understanding, but I feel like having the extra 40 or 50 years

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that the user perhaps will be the extra.

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All right, we go back.

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Rowing this planet for an extra 40 years, it's made you wise friend.

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This is where we need this is where you need artifact on because we talked about it one night

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late and we talked about the like I knew about the how we test beforehand.

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And what the what the history of that is, let me pull the history up real quick while you guys

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make it make a make a short amount of small talk while I pull the right page.

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Okay, so the thing is that in Australia, like, you I guess like the states of trailblazers

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are out there like, are we we want to lead the world and we want to like, you know,

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lead the debate on cryptocurrency and all that bullshit.

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Whereas like when you come to Australia, the government doesn't give a fuck.

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They just want to get paid tax.

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They're like, if you trade in these things, you'll pay us tax and then everything else

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about that we don't care about.

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So it's a little like, I just I don't understand why like the whole XRP saga,

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like how is that going on for years?

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It makes no sense.

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And now XRP is pretty much irrelevant because it's been superseded by other technologies.

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Is it though?

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I mean, it's still a top 10.

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Is it not?

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It's a top 10, but it doesn't do anything.

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It doesn't even have smart contracts.

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Does it?

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I was going to say, if you exclude stables, it's top five, right?

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It's like the Bitcoin, Ethereum, maybe BNB and then XRP.

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I feel like it's, I feel like if you exclude stables, it's the fourth biggest currency.

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Why it is is absolutely fucking baffling because I used to hold it, hold some, I sold it.

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When I was early in the crypto, I was like, I got sold on the dream of XRP by some random people

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on Reddit and sold it after I've taken it right into it.

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But like, to me, it's just sending token, right?

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It's, I'm sure there's like, maybe there's the smart contracts now.

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I don't think there ever used to be.

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But basically like they don't really have a decentralized manner of validating.

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So like you have to be on the list.

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You have to, there's like a list of trusted validator nodes.

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And if you're not on the list, then you can't validate.

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And like all the validators have to share that list.

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So it's a closed circle and you can't really get in there.

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And like Ripple actually distribute that list.

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I'm pretty sure.

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So the, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's cheap, I guess, to send transactions

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and it's cross-borderless is the thing, but so is all of other crypto.

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But yeah, I don't know why XRP is such highly valued by people.

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I do know that like every month a billion tokens comes up and gets unlocked by the

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foundation for Ripple.

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And then they sell what they need to keep the Ripple company going and then lock up the rest again.

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So basically every month the whole community gets dumped them by Ripple.

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Well, so my, my understanding of why Ripple is still so big is like,

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it still has the claim to fame of like banks buying into it and banks wanting to use it.

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Right. Whether that's still true, I kind of doubt it.

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But that was, because like, look at the list of banks that, that are like invested in Ripple.

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I feel like they was called the dream.

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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I concur.

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But I think that the reality of the story and like the reality in the story are have kind of

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segmented. So like Ripple is still seen as like, oh, well, they're like blazing a trail and they

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have good odds because banks are behind the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

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when it's probably not actually true.

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Aside from like the claim of banks wanting to use it and all bank transactions happening using

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Ripple, I don't think there's anything really separating them from everything else.

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Aside from, of course, that like the main guy has something like 70% of all Ripple, which is.

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Yeah. So Brad Garlinghouse was at one point the richest man in the world.

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Like for a day or two, during like 2017 or 18 or whatever it was when there was like the big

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Ripple pump when it was four bucks or something. Yeah. I remember reading that in the news.

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All right. So a little bit of a howie. Okay. Yeah. Howie. So the history here in the US,

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go pull it up because it's been a while since we talked about it. But this is back from the 1940s.

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I think like literally right after the war and hello to you at the time.

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I was graduating college. No, actually, I'm sorry. This is 46 right in the middle,

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right in the middle of one. So there was a Florida organization, W. J. Howie had a

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sub business that was a service business. And basically what was happening was that the owner

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owned large tracts of citrus groves in Florida, like basically orange trees.

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They kept half the gross for their own use and sold real estate contracts for the other half

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to finance future developments. And he would sell the land for a price per acre and then

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give to the purchaser a warranty deed upon payment and full for that purchase price.

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So then basically that purchaser could then lease it out to the buyer.

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Basically that purchaser could then lease it back to the service company

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and they would tend for the land and all this kind of stuff. So basically what it turned into is that

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they were selling almost like a, what's the right term for it? They basically called it an

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investment contract, but they were basically selling a warrant on that land, a warranty deed on that land.

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They would lease it back to Howie to be able to run citrus on it and etc. etc. So the idea

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was that, so the SEC went after it because in their words, this is back from the actual bill

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that went through. It says, in other words, an investment contract for purposes of a securities

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act means that a contract transaction or scheme whereby a person invests his money

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in a common enterprise and has led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter

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or a third party. It being immaterial, whether the shares in the enterprise are evidenced by formal

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certificates or by nominal interest in the physical assets employed by the enterprise.

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And so if we take this forward, what they're talking about now is that they're talking the idea

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that an investment contract in the Howie test, again, it was a good job, but in the idea that an SEC

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can determine whether or not a token can be sold to US investors and can and requires that token

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compel, be able to be registered with the SEC, that if an investment of money in a common enterprise

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with a reasonable expectation of profits to be derived from the efforts of others. So I think

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what that kind of means is that I'm buying into a or I'm investing into a token, things happen within

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that. And then the idea is that that token price increases because of those things by others, right?

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Investment like the team itself, other parties that are doing that. And if later, if I'm able to

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sell that for profit based on that effort, then that is considered a security. That's a definition.

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So but when you take a step back, right? And you just consider that a currency is the same thing

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as it like as a cryptocurrency? Well, yeah, because, but I mean, you don't trade

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currency as a security, do you? But you take a step back and you go, well,

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how is cryptocurrency different to like Fiat, where Fiat gains value from the basis of your economy,

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which is off the backs of other people doing work, right?

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No, security, because because one of them is the government and they're not going to say that they

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are security. That's the answer.

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So, okay, what is the implication of a cryptocurrency being a security? And I

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feel like that directly relates to existing laws that they would like to enforce on securities.

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Is that is that the whole deal? I believe in America, that means you could you need to be a

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broker to trade it, right? Rather than you can't just do what you do at the moment where you go

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on to an exchange and buy the token. No, I don't you can't do DeFi. No, I don't think

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any of that's true, actually. I think it just I don't think that's true. It just creates it creates

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rules and structures around what that security has to have and the registration of that security

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and the regulatory obligations of that security to be delivered. So, it does I don't think it

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necessarily and also I think there's some minimums here as well. Like there has to be a market cap

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on that security as well. Like I don't think it's the zero. And so there's some other companies

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coming things but like they like no said like like money markets and those types of things that are

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just you know, wrapped small fiat type of returns. Those are all securities as well. So, I mean,

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there I was trying to look up also like we're the definition of it here is what is is really what's

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in question, right? So, if it does pass the Howie test, and if the passage says that okay, we

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I'm buying a token at a specific price, there's work that's being done in that token,

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meaning like in the project either by the team that owns that project, right, or by others, or by

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etc etc. And my expectation is that goes up because of that work and it is a security. What is the big

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deal with that? And so that means each of those tokens has to register or there has to be I think

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a broker like somebody has to be responsible for that to be able to register that security.

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There's there would be rules from Coinbase and other exchanges that are dealing in that security.

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I think what that goes to is is also but at some point, like from us as validators, like we're

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non-custodial, like we're an infrastructure type of structure that helps. We're not we're not directly

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related to that security. And that's really where the gray area kind of starts to get into. But

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well, I think where I may have confused things is I believe that you end up just done some very

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quick googling to try to unpick where I've gone wrong. But effectively, securities, you can buy

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them from the company itself. You can buy them from individuals that hold them. You can buy them

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from banks and you can buy them via a broker. So if they currency that basically means that then

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exchanges would need to be registered as brokers, in order to carry on in the model that we are now.

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Because there isn't a company that could sell you a June or a atom or whatever.

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And they would have to be registered for number one, they have to be registered. There would be

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regulations of how they're managed and what they need to be able to carry on on the books and

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those types of things. There would be regulation in terms of what tokens they could offer. No

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different than like the SEC approving a specific stock listing, which I think allows it to be

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traded anywhere. But there might be other, like say Schwab wants to be able to create an ETF basket

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of stocks. That is a registered security, that ETF. And so they go through the process of registering

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that security and I'm sure whatever controls are in place for that have to be managed and Schwab

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owns that. So would Juno or somebody else have to register to be able to be allowed that other

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exchanges could trade that? I would think the answer would have to be yes. So I mean, but how would

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that even look like? Who knows? There's no central entity that owns Juno. There's no company that

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issues Juno. There has to be an organization. That issues Juno. From a founding perspective

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and from Juno. Is there a Juno Inc or a Juno LLC or a Juno Limited that exists somewhere?

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No, of course not. No, Core One is no, there's no legal entity associated to that. No, not that I

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know of. But also the question is, is even if Core One wrote all the code, they wouldn't be the one,

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like at the point that Genesis happened, is Core One the people that have issued those tokens? So

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is that the person that proposed that block? Is it the people that voted on that block? Like,

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well, it's people taking code from a repository and running it. Like, it's not, I mean,

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they, some of them were a cog in the wheel, but most of them weren't even, well, half of them,

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weren't even involved with, actually less than half them, weren't even involved with running the

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actual network. So, you know, is writing code, does that make you then responsible for?

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Yeah, I think it does. How? And it's not even in the code of the network. It's in the words,

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in the Genesis file is what actually, you can take that exact same code, change the Denom,

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and the accounts that it goes to, and it's all completely different then.

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If somehow you're associated with others, I'm surprised there's not an organization, by the

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way, but if I'm sure there is for other organizations, like I would think, like I know there's a

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Stargaze Inc. You know what I mean? Like, like, I'm really surprised there's not one at Juno, but

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there is an organization, right? I'm not sure about the hub either, but

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yes or no? Somewhere, somewhere, it doesn't be in the US, but somebody somewhere is responsible for

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that, which means that if they, this is what I think their whole point is, if anybody can start a

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token and be, and there's expectation of the Howie test that I'm putting money in, other people do

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work, and that number goes up, then there's an equal amount of risk in terms of that being 100%

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rugged or being fraud. And this is what SEC says, the consumers need some protection. That's,

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I'm not making that point. That's the point that they're making. So, so now.

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But that is, that is the three main points of the, well, that's one of the three main points of why

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they want to regulate crypto and they are, I mean, it's all investor, investor protections,

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regulatory oversight and financial stability. Right. And even if you have the FDX situations where,

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like, where there's just massive fraud, right? Like, like that, that business should have been

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regulated. That's fucking bullshit, right? Where you're taking basically staking components that

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people think are earning on specific staking, and either that's a Ponzi where they're just replacing

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those, or they are taking those dollars and using them elsewhere in a different business

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to be able to make bad investments. Like, that shit is, that's fucking bad, right? I think anybody,

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anybody would agree with that, right? So, so, but does that mean that the token needs to be

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regulated, or the exchange needs to be regulated? And I think here in this, in this business,

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how the fuck would you possibly regulate this stuff? Like, this is not a, this is like the rest

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of these securities that we're talking about are either US based, or there's something that's

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overseas that, that you have a US component of that are re-registered here. What do you get to

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register, Juno, in 33 countries? There's no fucking way, right? So, and you're not going to stop anybody

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from using that either. So, like, so then what are you trying to control? And I think the only thing

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you can't control is the exchanges, is the, is the conversion into fiat. That would be my,

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what else do you do? Like, you can't, how do you possibly control cryptocurrency? Like,

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you, you can't put that regulation in. So, can you control US residents getting access to that to

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turn it into dollars? Yeah, you could probably do a pretty good job there, if you really wanted to.

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I think, because the other thing that's happening in America, right, is this stuff around

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what makes a network sufficiently decentralized, right? So, that's the, the other kind of legislative

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thing playing out, which I've got to admit, I haven't followed particularly closely, but I

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thought was actually more interesting in the sense that it's legislation that's looking at

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the challenge of here is a product that our current rules don't help us with, because what do you do?

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You call something a security, but it ain't helping anyone. Yeah. So, if the purpose of the

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legislation is to protect consumers, it isn't work, it isn't fit purpose. So, I think that that's

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where you kind of go, this new style of product, and it doesn't fit the legislation dating back

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to the 1940s. So, new legislation is necessary. And I thought that the idea that you might have some,

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some rules around what would make a network sufficiently decentralized to not fall into

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the security model was kind of interesting. Yeah. I don't know too much about that argument either.

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Honestly, Ben, I haven't heard too much about that piece of it. I kind of don't,

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I don't know how much this is real and how much this is bullshit lip service.

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So, I forget who it was on Twitter, if I could find it, I'll put it in the show notes. But

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somebody said, this is not coming to a head. Ginsler's not going to be standing on the

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fucking steps of the capital building, making a major announcement around cryptocurrency.

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That's not going to happen. So, somebody said that. I totally agree with that approach.

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They'll settle with Coinbase. Coinbase will pay some money for this. Even though, I mean,

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I don't think they've done anything wrong, but whatever. It's tough to play in a game when

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the rules aren't set, and then come back later and say, these are the rules and you're fucked.

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So, and maybe some of that they did know. And some of that they said, well, the rules aren't

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set. So, therefore, we're going to do what they really want. And then there's some sort of reasonable

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expectation and they're going to be outside. So, you think that Coinbase might cop a fine for

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trading in under registered securities? Absolutely. Yeah. And then all they want,

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and honestly, all I want to, that's what some fucking clarity. It doesn't have to be nothing.

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Like the answer doesn't have to be totally deregulated and all this type of stuff. Like,

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there are probably some good points of this that need to happen here in the US at least.

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And there's probably some stuff that's totally stupid that you just have senators who should

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have retired 40 years ago. We have no fucking idea what the hell we're talking about.

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Right. And then there'll be some sort of balance between those two areas that I hope comes out.

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And I think once you have clarity and once those rules are set, regardless of how ominous those

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rules are, then I think that that might be, we always talked on this show, like, no, we've

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always talked about like, what is the compelling event that gets us out of the bear? That might be

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it. That actually might be it. Like some sort of fucking finality to say, this is it. And even

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if those rules are ominous, like I said before, that clarity might be enough to say people,

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people say, I understand this, we can work in the structure. Now, you know, now I'm going to,

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you know, you're going to see new products show up because I know what the rules are now. And

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it's not just like this fucking Wild West bullshit, right? I believe that's probably

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correct. Because I also think that centralized digital currencies are actually going to be like,

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this is going to make me so unpopular. But they are going, I think centralized digital currencies

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are going to be the catalyst to the next ball. Because I think that because I believe that that

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is when institutions like banks will get involved, I think there'll be enough regulatory

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clarity that people will feel like they can run businesses. And I think there'll be enough

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surety from the vast majority of individuals that the there is someone saying that this

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number on a screen has a meaning in the same way as my bank account does, which at the moment,

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they don't feel like I appreciate that that runs against pretty much the entire spirit of

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being a cycle punk and anything like that. But I sort of think that's the next realistic step.

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Right. I think so. I think that like, that is the sentiment of probably most of us here as

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well, Bendy, because we've not necessarily that that might be the catalyst that that,

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you know, breaks the bear cycle. But definitely we've talked about it here before that to actually

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gain any kind of adoption with normies, you need like that safe haven asset to jump in and out of

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that's not related to a centralized entity like UST or USTC like Tether or Circle. But, you know,

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like, you know, it can't be like that there are like, you know, crypto. I mean, crypto is born

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out of an idea, right? It doesn't necessarily mean that it has to follow that narrative for its

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entire existence. And there can be like a subset of crypto that follows that narrative. Like,

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but it doesn't mean that all of crypto has to follow that narrative, like things change,

404
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things morph, things evolve, right, into other things. So what, you know,

405
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Bitcoin can can remain the decentralized proof of work thing that all of the diehards go to

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if they if they want something that can't be regulated, etc. But like in terms of the the

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metamorphosis of the rest of the industry, then I think that having, you know, regulation and

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clarity around the rules can only be good for the industry in that it can open the door like

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your services to institutions and investors actually knowing what's going on and having an

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easier door into it. I mean, if there's a CBDC and banks are on board, then and that can be

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traded at exchanges like, you know, friggin, I don't know, Q coin or whatever the exchanges are

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that people use, I don't really know, Binance. Then, you know, that's a window into the industry.

413
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,560
And that's going to on board the billion fucking users that we need to actually make a go of it

414
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:28,320
and get some stability in the industry. Because at the moment, it is like occasional investors

415
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:36,240
from retail that come in during hype periods or boredom, and then pump the whole industry and

416
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,320
then lose interest in the whole thing falls apart again. And then all the people who have entered

417
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:45,600
and trying to make a living out of the industry kind of left there with a dick in their hand,

418
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:52,480
trying to figure out what to do. But I think I got you. I've kind of wanted

419
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,600
to say that the alternative CBDCs are going to lead to like the de facto form of exchange regulation.

420
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:03,600
Like I can imagine a future where only a handful of exchanges will actually support,

421
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:11,920
I don't know, USDG for USD government. And those exchanges are therefore considered like regulated.

422
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:19,200
And if say Q coin tries to take USDG and trade on it, then the US government comes down on them,

423
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:25,280
right? And so you can trust whether an exchange is vetted by the government if it's on set exchange

424
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,040
kind of idea. I don't know if that'll actually happen, but I can see that being a future that

425
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,760
happens. So it's a very clear one to one like, well, this is here. So obviously it's been reviewed,

426
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:40,400
it's been checked. And well, I mean, that would need to fall within their jurisdiction though,

427
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:46,320
like, you know, that exchange would need to be registered as a company under some purview of

428
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,840
the United States to be able to, you know, make that regulation on them. There'll still be like

429
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:58,320
road shit out of other countries or decentralized centralized exchanges and, you know, that stuff.

430
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:07,200
So I think like, I think the listing of a USD, let's just call it a USD, because that's probably

431
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:12,720
what it would be listed as. I don't think that could be personally, I don't think that could be

432
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:18,880
used as the source of truth as to whether or not regulation is graced to this good company that is

433
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:26,800
masquerading as a centralized entity to trade your crypto at. Just because the nature of it.

434
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,760
Because FDX could have been any of the tokens on there could have been called anything.

435
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,240
They could have all been fiat currencies and it would have filled in a scam.

436
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:42,160
Yeah, like, yeah, exactly. The collapse of FDX, it was really interesting. I talked to a couple

437
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:47,040
of people who knew who weren't in crypto, but knew who I was and they heard this story and they were

438
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:52,800
like, oh, is this not terrible? I was like, this is exactly what actual blockchain prevents happening

439
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,560
because you can actually see where the assets are and you can see who holds them and you can see

440
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:05,920
balances and you can reconcile shit. And this is why it's actually... Honest, I changed.

441
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:12,720
But like, it's the same thing with Informal, we've got this this Kofi idea, right, where

442
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:18,960
which just allows for much more elegant settling of your your debts and kind of it means that your

443
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,320
speed of settling invoices suddenly becomes really quick.

444
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:30,560
You can settle your obligations and it's like, that sounds a great idea, but it basically only works

445
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:38,720
if you can trade in a currency that businesses can be comfortable with. And again, that, you know,

446
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:45,360
you go, well, that work as soon as there is central government tokens, like, tech like that is going

447
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,760
to come in, whether it's Informal or whether it's someone else, you know, tech like that is going

448
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:55,200
to come in and just enables it lowers the risk in the system, right? People are less likely to go

449
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:01,680
bankrupt due to cash flow issues, because your actual debtors compare you. Or you know whether

450
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,480
they can or not, you can you can judge those risks much better.

451
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,400
So I just tumbled off to make a cup of coffee.

452
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,480
Clearly. Yeah.

453
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,520
This week, there are on the mute me. Yeah.

454
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:22,960
I'm just glad he wasn't having a piss.

455
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,400
Yeah. It's like a naked gun.

456
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,040
This kind of relates to it. So we've had in the notes for a long time, but I'll put the link in

457
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:39,600
the show that there's an Axios article with with the open AI CEO. So there's a lot of obviously

458
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,680
there's a lot of talking out with like, generative AI and and everything else that's going out with,

459
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,760
you know, chat, GPT and Google saying and, you know, everybody's announcing shit, right?

460
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:55,360
And the title of this Axios article is open open AI CEO and historic quote, historic move

461
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,120
calls for regulation before Congress. So the open the open AI CEO and a bunch of AI CEOs are

462
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,200
coming forward and saying, listen, this shit's fucking dangerous. We, you know, we think we

463
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,120
should be regulated some sort of we want some guidelines and some rules of how this should

464
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:15,760
be done. And I think it's just hilarious that that, you know, I think there's a not just a coin base

465
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,800
piece, but there's there's been a lot of talk about crypto regulation and trying to get past

466
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,880
some sort of basic set of rule sets to be able to move forward. What we're saying what we're

467
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:30,160
talking about before. And and there's some quotes in this article, which are, you know,

468
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,280
Dick Durbin from Illinois, who's kind of a dick, called it in multiple levels, called the

469
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:41,120
historic company was coming forward to commerce, Congress pleading for regulation. And quote,

470
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:46,480
this is your chance folks to tell us how to get it right. Please use it said Senator John Kennedy,

471
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:51,360
Republican from Louisiana, talk in plain English and tell us what rules to implement.

472
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:59,520
How fucking hilarious that this is kind of a for me, this is a real, a real crypto negative

473
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:04,400
indicator, which is when you have it when you have a business that doesn't necessarily threat

474
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,520
traditional finance and those types of things. It's, Hey, man, you guys, this is good technology.

475
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,960
We want to use this. Tell us the rules you want us to implement that laid out for us and we'll

476
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,880
figure it out. And then this in this situation we'll be talking about here with like the US and

477
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,920
SEC and everything else, literally, this is probably what 10 years of some sort of aspect or at least,

478
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:27,760
you know, six, five, six years of requesting for some sort of clarity around crypto regulation.

479
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,040
And what you get is what you get is lawsuits associated that.

480
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,920
Do you think some of that relates to the initial culture of crypto though,

481
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:41,760
which was a bit, which was, you know, confrontational? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no doubt.

482
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,960
It's as much as it's now asking for regulation in some parts, majority.

483
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,800
For sure. But these are fucking adults, right? They're not, they're not like four year olds.

484
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:56,320
Like, like I understand what the original piece was, but also as a lawmaker, and regardless of

485
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,840
original intent, you look at the current situation and say, what's the best thing for my constituents

486
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,040
and for the general public at large? You don't sit there and fucking

487
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:10,080
quash things because you're a petulant child, which unfortunately most of this, I mean,

488
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,800
I mean, like I was going to question the entire premise of your thing of like, they're not,

489
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,640
these are grown adults, they're not four year olds. They're all like, that sort of is what

490
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:24,000
politicians, you know, and that's how you stay elected, right? Is, you know, appealing to,

491
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,920
you know, you don't have to do the right thing. You just have to win the votes.

492
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:34,240
Yeah, which I'm actually surprised because I think there's not really a massive cultural

493
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:38,720
backlash towards this technology, at least as far as I know. Like, I mean, there's,

494
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:40,880
there's clearly even for as much loss as there been.

495
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,800
Many AI or crypto?

496
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:48,560
Crypto. Like, for as much fucking, for as much fucking loss that has occurred,

497
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,760
and I know prices are in the shit and blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And there's,

498
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:57,840
there's clearly been, I'm not saying it's 100%, but for as much fraud and bullshit and challenges

499
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:04,080
early on and, and money flowing in and either contract issues or ruggeding or like, you know,

500
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:09,040
regulatory issues or like the sand bankpins of the world, all this type of shit, there's still a

501
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:16,560
tremendous amount of positivity. And I think the general public, maybe at least here, more than 50%

502
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:22,480
would say, there's a role for this in the future. How do we use this? And it's, it's still, you know,

503
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,640
this, these types of articles just kind of make me laugh and sad at the same time, because

504
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,840
the idea, the idea that lawmakers are coming forward and saying, like, let us tell us what

505
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,600
rules you want to say. Well, but I thought we was, let us know what you want to do. It just

506
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:36,480
makes me fucking laugh.

507
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,760
I think AI is much easier to understand, though, because we've had movies telling us that the

508
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:50,000
robots are going to come and kill us for years. So people, people, people are like scared of the

509
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:55,520
tech, but also, and, but kind of know that the innovation will happen. And they kind of, like,

510
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,680
weirdly, they've actually learned that you perhaps want to try and work alongside it. Whereas I think

511
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:06,400
my, my actual view on crypto is I don't think anyone actually understands what benefit it has

512
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:14,400
on any scale. I think in the UK, there's some effort by some nerds within the Bank of England

513
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:20,880
to do some good stuff with it. But the, whenever I tell anyone that I do this kind of thing,

514
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:26,720
they're just like, so how can I use that in real life? And I'm like, well, basically you can't

515
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:31,680
yet, but you should be able to use it to do these sort of things because it just is a measure.

516
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:39,200
And then they kind of go, oh, okay, that could make sense. But it's like, the AI just feels like

517
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:45,040
it's intuitively understandable, more or more scary. And where as crypto is like, well, that's

518
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,520
just banking. Yeah. Yeah. And I think here, I think what we were talking about before, which I

519
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,280
think is part of the case is that it's not going to be the exchanges like these exchanges are

520
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:58,640
going to pull it out. It's going to be traditional financial US large scale banks that will make

521
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:09,120
that change. So with USD as a coin that's led by Wells and Chase and others, with having

522
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:16,880
a set of offerings that are through traditional banks available in a portal next to other offerings,

523
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:23,280
that is what's going to end up making change here. And not regular, not Congress, not these exchanges,

524
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,360
not crypto bros. It's going to have to be something that's more traditional then,

525
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,200
that they understand there's money to be made there. And if they can find a way to make money off

526
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:36,000
of that, and it's regulatory and they regulated and they understand what the rules are and blah,

527
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,440
blah, blah. If that's there, then I think you see these groups coming in there pretty hard.

528
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:44,720
Right. And you're seeing that like, you see that with like Fidelity and Schwab has a, like,

529
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:47,840
they're all going that direction. I think they're all looking for clarity too.

530
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,960
USDC Circle has BlackRock, right? Yeah, they do. Yeah.

531
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:59,840
That's right. I forgot about that. But this is my thing, right? Like, as soon as BlackRock,

532
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:05,280
if BlackRock have more and more progressively more certainty, that's a huge amount of capital.

533
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,760
Yeah, I'll put that in the notes too. So that reminds me of what that is. That is,

534
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,880
they're using, that's the opposite way though, right? Aren't they taking

535
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,400
Circle deposits and putting those into BlackRock funds or something like that? Is that what that

536
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,920
is or what are they doing? Now, I'm going to have to remember this. I believe that Circle are

537
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:32,880
investing into BlackRock, but I also think that, but I potentially BlackRock also own some of Circle.

538
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:39,040
Oh, yeah. Because everything's a Circle stake, right? Yep. I think, yeah, everything's always a

539
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:49,360
Circle stake. Todd, sorry. Todd says, not, I said the word immaturity for the Congress.

540
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:55,840
He said not immaturity, senility, which is correct. Good call. Yeah, let's put, how about term

541
00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:05,600
limits on that fucking shit? Jesus, what a mess. Or age limits. Either way. Yeah. So they've been in

542
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:11,360
office for a while. Is that what you're suggesting? I'm not from the US of A. It's a position for life.

543
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:17,200
Oh, what is? Well, politicians here at least, like to defeat an incumbent is

544
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:23,120
extremely difficult regardless of whether they're liked or not. Like Ted Cruz is one example where

545
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:30,240
he apparently is like universally disliked, but he's like undefeatable in Texas regardless.

546
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,040
Another role is like Supreme Court justices and those types of things. Those are for life, which is,

547
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,040
so once somebody's in there, that opinion is there until they're dead, which is,

548
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,080
which might not be at the same way that the rest of the public thinks.

549
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:50,480
I mean, we have that with the House of Lords, right? So our system's incredibly shit.

550
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,440
Once upon a time, it used to be that you inherited that. They got rid of that eventually.

551
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:57,440
Oh, really? It's handed down?

552
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:02,880
Yeah. So like if your dad was a law, like they were hereditary peers. So if you were

553
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:08,960
Serbendi and then, you know, my son, he would get to go and make laws after me.

554
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,680
And that was the kind of, you know, they would now go on a 10 minute rent about

555
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:19,520
landed gentry and hunting grouse, but we'll just take that as red and move on. But like,

556
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:26,320
so it was them and it was like the bishops and some other people. But now it's like the last of

557
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,680
the hereditary peers are dying off and then you've still got the bishops. And then basically,

558
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:36,720
everyone else is like the government of the day get to put as many people as they like

559
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:42,880
into the House of Lords. So it's constantly getting bigger. And they they're not elected

560
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:48,880
and they stay there indefinitely. So you just it's just math. It is literally cronyism.

561
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:58,160
Right. And because we've had quite a turbulent time in terms of like leaders. So when Teresa May went,

562
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:04,800
Boris Johnson, what's the face? Liz Truss, who are all prime ministers for a collective period

563
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:14,000
of like two years, maybe, like all of them basically put their mates and, you know, people

564
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,960
that they work closely with into House of Lords. And so now there's just more votes for their

565
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,480
particular political party. But the other side would do exactly the same, right? I'm not,

566
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,040
it's just the way the system is. But it's completely shit because what it means is,

567
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:32,080
is you've got a load of people that for a very short period of time, turn up to support their

568
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:38,400
team and then eventually get bored and just cream off the expenses. And everyone kind of goes,

569
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,080
oh, we should do something about this and never bother because it's not, you know,

570
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:49,360
when you're not going to win an election on saying electoral reform, right? Right. But it's the whole

571
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,480
kind of House of Lords in the UK is kind of pointless, basically, because it doesn't make

572
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,680
any laws. It just kind of it just gives us votes on the laws. It votes on the laws the House of

573
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,600
Commons have passed and it can push back a little bit that basically the House of Commons does what

574
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,400
the fuck it wants. Right. So you've just got a lot of effectively, you've got a lot of very rich

575
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,920
people being given subsidized wine. Too bad. Too bad the phrase not here. I know he's a huge,

576
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:19,200
huge backer of the monarchy. I know it's like it's like favorite thing and hereditary sell,

577
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,880
you know, sovereignty and all the type of stuff. I know like to base on here to really talk about

578
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:30,640
that because I know he's such a backer of that. He wept when the queen deceased.

579
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:37,440
I genuinely did, but that was because it caused me an absolute ballache at work because

580
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:46,960
we had to take that effectively. You weren't allowed to have a website. You had to have a tribute

581
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:55,280
to Her Majesty as your kind of homepage. You had to. We mean you had to. Yeah, pretty much.

582
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:08,560
So my employer at the time was owned. We were sort of owned by the council because I worked at

583
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:14,160
the arena in Liverpool. The buildings were owned by the council. The council had a legal obligation

584
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:20,160
to do this, right? Like doing that. So we had to follow suit and other places did as well. So

585
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,240
like if you were a royal something like the Royal National Theatre and things like that.

586
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:29,680
And then basically every business in the UK went shit. All these things are doing it. We have to

587
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:36,880
do it too. And so I suddenly had to create a whole new bit of functionality for our website

588
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:43,680
to kind of put this page in front of it that we didn't have. And at the time I was in the

589
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:48,480
middle of a kind of website upgrade project because our actual website was fucked. The

590
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:56,640
CNSS just wouldn't publish new pages. So I was just like when the Queen was ill I was literally

591
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:02,800
begging for her to stay on a few more days so that the developers could get this thing done.

592
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:13,200
And it was just it was it was really, really, really annoying. And maybe haven't like but I just

593
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,280
that I kind of would come home and just have no interest in anything other than was she still

594
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:32,240
breathing? What a shame. Yeah, okay. So sorry, continue Bendy. No, all I was going to say is

595
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:38,480
I'm pumped from a part of the UK that is probably less pro monarchy than the Frey is.

596
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:48,640
So, yeah, yeah. So Liverpool is other than having two football clubs and the Beatles.

597
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:56,400
It basically doesn't think that it's part of the UK. It sees itself as there's a whole sort of

598
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:01,600
Scouts not English thing. And parts of that involves just hating the monarchy. You know,

599
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:08,720
they're all this kind of thing. Wait, why? Well, it is kind of a antiquated concept in that.

600
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:14,480
Yeah. I mean, why does Liverpool hate why does Liverpool not see itself as British?

601
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:20,240
Yeah. Port City looking out at the rest of the world, we feel like we're closer to New York

602
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:28,080
than Manchester. You know, that's of our outlook is like out to sea. But there is also just like

603
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:33,200
we have been as a city, it's been shacked on from a great height by the power to be for a number of

604
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:43,040
years. On the great. I love this. It's your father. Damn. Yeah. I mean, right down.

605
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:51,360
Decidedly British shit that Bendy's been saying like Ball Lake, I believe is like

606
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:58,320
a reasonably British thing to say. But you said before, take that as red. Now,

607
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:03,440
I haven't heard any other culture use that. But I'm assuming that means that just

608
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:09,680
let's just assume that you've already aware of this and and covered it. Right. Is that it? Yeah.

609
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,200
Yeah. We're going to assume that you we're going to assume you've read the chapter.

610
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:18,720
Let me make it like it's that kind of thing, right? Oh, red. R E A D. I was thinking red. Yeah.

611
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:26,720
R E D. Oh, not like I was like, and and she'll see, please explain. Yeah. And how is this

612
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:36,160
communist? I was like, okay. I hadn't realized that I was so unintelligible. I just hadn't I

613
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:44,080
hadn't got that I was just talking nonsense. Yeah. Well, you know, so the British like Australia

614
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:49,200
have just a bunch of things that you say that you assume people know, but they're actually

615
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:53,920
co-local co-localisms that people don't fucking know. I clue idea what you're talking about.

616
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:02,000
Like yeah, like yeah. Well, because in Britain, you can spin someone a yarn, right?

617
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:07,840
Which is telling them a that's telling them a story. And obviously, that's where we got it from

618
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:17,280
is you blokes. You come and Ava to our country with your ships. And our crimes on our criminals.

619
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:26,960
There's a there's a there's a TV show called 10 Bob Poms on, I don't know,

620
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:36,000
fucking Stan or some streaming shit. And it's about the the English coming to Australia like

621
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:42,320
during a period of decline in England, where the poorer people would come to Australia to try and

622
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:49,600
make it. And apparently, we didn't like you guys much when you came over. We're on the street is.

623
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:56,960
Yeah. Like a second class. We do have a history of not being well liked overseas for some reason.

624
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:03,600
There's a there's a scene in this in this show, right, where old mates come over from England,

625
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:10,000
and he's trying to trying to secure himself some employment. And he's at the let's call it an

626
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,560
employment office, where you sort of go up and you're like, yeah, I'm here for a job. And they'll

627
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:19,120
like look at the little tickets with all of the jobs written on them. And they're like, oh, we've

628
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:27,360
got a job here for for like, you know, shoveling shit out of the latrine. And he's like, oh, yeah,

629
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:34,160
well, you know, I am a I am a fully qualified carpenter. And they're like, yeah, but you know,

630
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:39,520
you're not Australian. So then they're like, well, is there anything else they're like, no,

631
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:44,080
he's like, oh, well, I guess I'll take the shoveling shit out of the latrine job. And they're

632
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:48,560
like, okay, just wait a minute while we go and see if there's any other Australians who want that job

633
00:54:48,560 --> 00:55:02,240
first. Anybody want the shoveling shit out of the latrine job? No, thanks. It's pretty funny.

634
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,080
I'm not sure if it's meant to be a comedy, but it certainly comes across that way.

635
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:13,600
It's a documentary. Well, I mean, it's like a docuseries, right? That's completely probably

636
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:19,600
off the mark. But that's funny. You know, good fun. What else we have on the list? Probably.

637
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:28,480
What is this fucking thing? Have you ever seen those Japanese Beatles, just like fucking each other?

638
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,800
I assume I assume that quote in the spreadsheet for folks are now looking at the spreadsheet.

639
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:39,040
The Frey and artifact are together this week at this conference. So I'm guessing that's where

640
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:47,280
they came from. Hey, so fun story. There's a there's a blockchain conference in Australia.

641
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:53,920
Is there the month? Yeah. Does anyone get a weird one? Is it sponsored by Big Balls Blockchain?

642
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:59,520
No, but I'm going. I assume you are. You're probably the only one there.

643
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:08,880
It's him and Rahma. They're just going to pub. I can almost definitely assure you that I will be

644
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:21,520
the only Cosmos Validator. So Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All the tickets are done to

645
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:27,280
Rava. I don't think I want to go, man. I think it's like I think it's a corporate circle jerk.

646
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:34,480
But there because they're like the big wigs of crypto in Australia, like,

647
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:40,720
you know, the corporations and shit are going to this thing. But it's like, is it like an

648
00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:45,520
Ethereum based thing? Or what is it? Like, what's it on? It's just it's just whatever.

649
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:51,680
Or is it a finance? Yeah, it's not like based around. Yeah, it's like Bitcoin and fucking Ethereum

650
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:58,160
and all the bullshit. But so I thought I thought Rahma ran the corporation, though. But isn't he

651
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:02,880
isn't that his like entire thing is that he's the head of the corporation? He is the head of a

652
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:12,000
corporation. No, no, I think it's the corporation. Capital T. So so the way they do it in Australia

653
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:17,040
for blockchain week is it's not out of place. It's not like it's not. Oh, let's go to Sydney

654
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:22,400
for a week and do blockchain week. Right. It's like they'll have like a day in Sydney, a day in

655
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:28,000
Adelaide, a day in Brisbane, a day in fucking Perth. Really? And they got a day in Melbourne,

656
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,520
right? Yeah. So Melbourne's like the fifth day, like at the end of the year. You got something

657
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:36,240
specific against Perth because you were like, it's a day here, it's a day there, it's a day there,

658
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:42,000
it's a day in fucking Perth. So that's on the other side of the other side of the fucking country.

659
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:48,800
It's like six hours to fly there. I was like, I was like, you should go to that conference. So

660
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:53,280
you when you say, you get that you get that look, would you ever, you ever go like we were

661
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,680
at East Denver, right? We go to the Aptos thing or something else. And you say, I'm a cop. You

662
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:02,080
meet somebody new here. I validate for Cosmos and they give you like that sad puppy dog look like,

663
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:09,040
oh, how sweet is that? Are you just discovering crypto? Oh, you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Are you making

664
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:17,680
$10 today? Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Oh, IBC. I've heard of it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I love

665
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:22,480
this conversation. It's gonna be awesome. Just to fuck off. To the future, man. To the future, man.

666
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:32,160
Anyway, so they they sent me I got the ticket for the one in Melbourne, right? And it's all very

667
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:38,160
like this. Not like there's a big shed full of, you know, food shed, right? You know, big, big

668
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:47,280
garage full of those. It's actually like you go to the hotel and they have booked out like the

669
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:53,360
hotel's Ampe Theater or whatever they have at the hotel. And then people do like, you know, talks.

670
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:58,240
So I'm assuming it's going to be all very corporate and people like pulling each other off and

671
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:07,120
congratulating each other on another good year. Yeah. Yeah. But there's like a breakfast. I imagine

672
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:13,120
it's like a corporate breakfast. Tickets are free, of course. There's like this breakfast

673
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:18,720
in the morning. It's like at fucking 7.15 in the morning. So that's a corporate crypto conference.

674
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:23,280
They are not the kind of crypto people I know. That basically is exactly. Yeah. There's no

675
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:33,200
Lamborghini parking out front on that shit. There weren't Mercedes only. Mercedes and Bentley

676
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:38,880
Affair. S class. So yeah. And yeah, anyway, so that'll be interesting. I was thinking about

677
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,960
wearing a button up shirt. Do you have one? Is there one back there? I have to buy one. Yeah.

678
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:49,520
There is some shit hanging in the cupboard right there. I see. Yeah, it's not so. Yeah.

679
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:54,480
That looks like a button up shirt back there. Yeah, pull one of those out. There's a suit in there.

680
00:59:54,480 --> 01:00:02,160
There's no fits. Somebody die. Someone's we die. So it's just for funeral. That's all easy.

681
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:13,600
Actually, I went to another. I went to a a a ball, a ball. It's like, you know, they've got.

682
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:24,560
So my my partner is a engineer. And so they have, you know, industry balls and fundraisers and shit

683
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:29,680
that you go to. So, you know, wear a suit. It's like the only occasion I wear a suit.

684
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:39,680
An engineer ball. That sounds like it's more of an industry thing. It's like, it's like, you know,

685
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:46,640
for example, like the water industry might have like industry ball with a fundraiser for

686
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:51,840
fucking kids with one toe or something. Your upper class high society, your God's gift to ballroom

687
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:56,480
and a trity. You always fill your room. The event is never small. The social pages say that you've

688
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:01,200
got the biggest balls of them all. You get that reference. You don't get that reference.

689
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:07,040
Give me more Australian than that. Yeah, it's ACDC, right? Fucking a my man.

690
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:13,360
How do you know my guy, my guy, my guy, some balls or hills and charity and some for fancy

691
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,680
dress. But the balls that are held for pleasure are the ones that I like best. No, I feel like

692
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:22,080
they should, they should be these highly what Chelsea, what the fuck, man? I got it. We're

693
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:27,280
talking about. I knew it. I should be the thing to inform big balls blockchain.

694
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:32,080
You know what? It really should be shouldn't it? I'll pull that up. Are you suggesting

695
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:42,320
we renamed the body to big balls? Blockchain? Oh my goodness. I think I think I guess we have

696
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:52,800
to get through to episode 69 and then we can call it a day. I assume he's a shock of

697
01:01:54,640 --> 01:02:00,560
Robert says that you've shaved. Yeah, I mean, when you've only got one bag, how can you not know

698
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:05,600
all their songs? I thought that was like, I think didn't get singed to the, didn't your parents sing

699
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:10,560
to you? Like your mom sang to you as a good, good night. I figured she sang. She said she sang some

700
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:16,480
song off of those about to rock or something like that. Is that no? Look, man, I'm actually not very

701
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:25,520
cultured in the rock and roll in the musical ways. I love it. Is there anything more than ACDC?

702
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:30,960
You've got ACDC, what boys to men and that's it. No, no, no, you got no, no, no, no, no.

703
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:37,520
What's it? Oh, she's well, you got me. Brian Adams. Is he? I didn't know that.

704
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:43,200
Midnight Oil is great. Maybe don't men at work in excess is an Australian band. Right. That's

705
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:47,520
what I meant. Men at work. Not work. Yeah. Work is fucking awesome. In excess is an Australian band.

706
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:55,360
ACDC, obviously. Yeah. Well, so they say. Oh, Midnight Oil, great band. Silver chair.

707
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:06,640
Yeah, silver chair. The fact that that this is and that that is why I'm saying there is one band

708
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:11,680
because at the point where in order to jump in with another one, we're down to silver chair

709
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:17,120
already, I think we should we should be at a point where we just accept that Australia has one

710
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:24,400
contribution to music. Silver chair. Well, Sweden only has ABBA, so it's only fair, right? No,

711
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,320
Sweden also has what's that? What's that heavy metal band that's fucking up there? I'll think of it.

712
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:34,160
Hey, we got we got Daryl Brithowight. Now, he's Australian. We can claim him. Oh, what about that

713
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:39,360
gay dude with the glasses? Elton John? I don't think he's Australian.

714
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:48,480
Elton John is British. He's British. He was like Elton John was my last gig at the arena.

715
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:56,320
That was quite fun. Really? I was like, yeah, yeah. So I was backstage talking to someone there.

716
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:01,360
And then we all had to like get out of the way because Elton was coming and basically

717
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:08,000
he had to like he wasn't allowed to see that we existed. And then he was going to get into his

718
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,680
little buggy that was going to drive him from his car to his dressing room and then from his dressing

719
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:19,760
room to the stage. And we had to just no, that's not true. Really? Yeah, it's completely like,

720
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:25,520
yeah. I mean, if I was going to lie, I'd have come up with a better story, right? But yeah, it's

721
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:32,400
these kind of things. Yeah, it was quite fun. It's always good. It's interesting stuff being

722
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:38,240
at the arena because you did have these occasional global mega stars, but never any from Australia

723
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:47,280
because well, oh, Kylie, hang on. We've got Kylie Manogue. Who? She's more British than you.

724
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:55,920
Well, yeah, but she but but neighbors, right? Your one television program. Fuck.

725
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:02,640
She on back. Probably still running.

726
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:08,800
It actually just finished. They just they literally just ended it. I think last year.

727
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:09,920
And not soon enough.

728
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:17,040
It was big news in Britain when that when that finished.

729
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:22,480
It must be running longer than fucking the Simpsons 38th same sort of trajectory

730
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:27,680
equality as well. I think hey, Simpsons coming back right now. They were just literally I think

731
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:30,640
they were just reading about because I started watching this last season that's actually pretty

732
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:36,400
damn good right now. I'm pretty excited. Coming back. What's coming back? King of the Hill. King

733
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:40,880
of the Hill is coming back to it. Really? Oh, really? With propane accessories. That's right.

734
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:45,120
Propane and propane accessories. Beaver some buttheads back right now to be launching those.

735
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,560
That I didn't know. Yeah, he's been back the second season or third season. I just actually

736
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:53,680
watched one last night and it had a little bit of the like they don't watch music videos anymore.

737
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:57,600
Now they watch YouTube videos, which is actually which was kind of funny because it's different

738
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:02,240
because it's always fun to watch music videos. But but it's much more in line with today and

739
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:06,080
they make they make some good fun of some bullshit YouTube videos, I gotta say.

740
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:11,760
That sounds awesome. Yeah, they're good. Oh, so beaver some butthead is worth the watch.

741
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:16,240
It is. I think I mean, it's the reason if you watch it when you're I mean, I watched it like

742
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:21,520
back in the day, but like it has it's not like the same right, but it's it's slightly different.

743
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:24,800
But it still has some really good stuff to it. There's still some pretty decent stuff in there.

744
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,800
And this season of symptoms actually is pretty funny, but I'm still waiting for

745
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:38,080
more Rick and Morty's. Ah, Rick and Morty. I'm waiting for what's my what's my man's name? David.

746
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:45,440
Uh, the fuck is what is that show called? Dave fuck. Is it your enthusiasm? Oh,

747
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:51,120
with curb? Yeah. Can't wait for the fucking curb. It's like my favorite. Is that ending

748
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:55,280
soon? Is he is he gonna end in that or did he talk about it? I think it'll end when he fucking dies.

749
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:01,920
I thought it did and did it not. I don't know. Ending it like 20 fucking times. Yeah,

750
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:07,600
that's pretty funny. But yeah, he's just like, I don't know. They think he can. I didn't think

751
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:12,640
he can stop. It's like one of those people with a problem. More stories won't stop.

752
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:18,400
A lot of good stuff out of this year, though. Hey, so, you know, in the ecosystem news,

753
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:24,160
the Juno delegations are going to drop soon. She'll see.

754
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,160
And I don't think you. Great. Love it. Yeah.

755
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,760
Do you mean drop from the foundation or drop as in the number goes down?

756
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:38,480
Is this in the they'll make the delegations like in the next couple of days, I think.

757
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,680
Oh, from your cue. Is this from Q one or Q two or whatever?

758
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,560
Aren't you doing this quarterly or no? Half an hour. No, it's fucking way too much work to do.

759
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,920
I mean, I should have thought that it's fucking for him. It's one and it's one and done right now.

760
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:58,480
That's it. Never to change again. Like I would love to do it though. So like there is a

761
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:03,360
fucking lot of labor in it, to be honest. Like I had no idea how much work it was going to be.

762
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:10,880
And it's because your rules are too, too detailed. Yeah. Well, yes and no. Yes and no. So, I mean,

763
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:18,480
a lot of it was easy points, right? And I think we're we're going to try and go down a route of

764
01:08:18,480 --> 01:08:27,520
more automation with Rama. Who who we doing that with? Can't remember the name, but there's

765
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:33,440
there's a company out there that's making like some automation software around this to monitor the

766
01:08:33,440 --> 01:08:41,920
blockchain and help actually distribute those delegations fairly with the with the non non.

767
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:50,720
What was the word? What's fucking earlier? You like the non subjective criteria?

768
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:56,080
Oh, you mean, you know, where does the source of truth? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You mean, you mean,

769
01:08:56,080 --> 01:09:02,800
so whether it's uptime or some sort of whatever. Yeah, like up some with a yeah, whether RPCs

770
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:08,240
are running Arco. I've selected because even going through and checking those fucking huge

771
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:14,480
pain in the arse. I mean, is yeah, whatever. Please say what you're going to say. It doesn't matter.

772
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:20,640
120 validators all offering the same exact services and not valuable. That's what I was going to say.

773
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:25,920
Yeah, that's why we're like who gives a shit like there's not even so great. You got like

774
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:32,000
one transaction to block how many fucking RPC knows do you need? Seriously, there's a lot of spam.

775
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:37,600
Seriously, I mean, I might argue even that the RPCs that we have available like using the chain

776
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:43,520
registry are more of a hindrance at this moment in time than they are beneficial. What do you mean

777
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:50,000
hindrance? I think that it gives really easy access for like, oh, yeah, doing various things or

778
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:55,040
maybe I'm literally nefarious things but nefarious things in the last gives them a really easy on

779
01:09:55,040 --> 01:10:00,800
ramp for doing said things. Like on secret right now, occasionally, like the set is basically

780
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:05,520
going down because someone's writing an R bot and then they'll just sequentially go through the

781
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:10,960
chain registry and knock out all those nodes and then start attaching to random open RPCs.

782
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,080
And it's really annoying. What do you mean knocking them out? I mean, like,

783
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:19,200
dossing them out like like spamming them out to the node stops or what do you mean?

784
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:25,120
Effectively. Yeah. Really? Yeah. And what they're doing basically is like funneling a lot of

785
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:33,760
transactions and then because secret is just slower, unfortunately, like a very basic like swap

786
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:37,040
transaction, he's spamming them because he's trying to create an R bot, right? And that's

787
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:40,640
making basically the entire network slow down because so many blocks are being missed because

788
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:47,440
of it. So they're filling a very expensive to compute block with a bunch of bullshit and then

789
01:10:47,440 --> 01:10:51,280
using the R bot to get whatever they want to be able to get. Yeah, basically.

790
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:58,560
Fucking hell. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Anyway. So well, I mean, RPC is something that I

791
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:04,880
think is like everyone needs it regardless, right? But I mean, doing something with them

792
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:09,040
is the important thing. Like they need to be behind some sort of load balancer that just

793
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:14,240
distributes traffic. There's no point in having them if they're not. But I don't know, maybe a

794
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:21,840
system that would make more sense would be like apply to be an RPC provider to be included with

795
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:28,400
the delegation program or something like rather than just saying here's my RPC, say I want to be

796
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:33,200
an RPC provider, maybe there's only 10 slots or something like that instead of having 120.

797
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:37,600
Well, that's a relay or two, right? Isn't like too many relays is not a good thing.

798
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:42,720
Well, you don't play for that either. So the way relaying typically works is like a network

799
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:48,640
will start and then people put like one token in their wallet and then they'll have a delegation

800
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,000
for it and they'll never refill it. And then there's like a handful of people that will keep

801
01:11:52,000 --> 01:12:00,640
refilling it. So that one's also really the way we tackled the relaying is we distributed the

802
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:05,600
points by the amount of messages that were relayed, not like, are you running one? It's like how

803
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:11,200
effective is it? It was a big thing. This I say a big thing. It may not have been particularly big,

804
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:15,440
but there was a thing on Twitter this week about people, some people wanting permissioned,

805
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:24,400
like permission channels or like trying to reduce the amount of relaying that's happening. And I

806
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:31,440
was baffled by it. But these were all like in theory, relatively sensible people talking about

807
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:38,800
it. So there must be some sort of upside that I just couldn't understand. Presumably, they were

808
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:47,200
probably referring to like using the middleware and running through like a hub and spoke type

809
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:54,000
structure instead of chains like IBC and do everyone potentially. So at the moment, like,

810
01:12:54,960 --> 01:13:02,480
Juno's got a channel to hear and there and fucking everywhere. And the reason for that is

811
01:13:02,480 --> 01:13:12,240
is because of the way IBC works is that it creates a unique denom when you like create an IBC channel.

812
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:21,120
So, you know, like, I mean, it's kind of messy. Like you could have, if you send it through the hub,

813
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:29,920
for example, to another chain, so if it goes Juno, Cosmos, a cache, that final Juno would have a

814
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:36,640
different denom than if it just went from Juno to a cache because they're different channels,

815
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:42,640
like one goes through the hub and the other one goes directly from Juno to a cache. So you end

816
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:49,280
up with this unique denom and then like more escrow accounts all over the place on different chains.

817
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:57,840
So presumably what that was referring to, I think strange love made middleware that makes it easier

818
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:04,560
to, or maybe they made a module or something isn't it, Schultz, that makes it easier to actually send

819
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:13,440
say a Juno from Juno chain through a hub to another chain. And then I don't know how does that

820
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:19,360
work? Do you know Schultz? I have no idea. I have not read anything about permissioned channel

821
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:25,760
creation or anything like that. Yeah, I'm really completely different. Oh, here's Jake. Jake's here.

822
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:31,440
Jake with the info. Robert said something around government-gated ABC channels and

823
01:14:31,440 --> 01:14:35,360
clients, which I can't understand. That seems like it makes sense to me. It seems, I don't know.

824
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:40,240
Oh, okay. Yeah, so it's completely different. So people aren't just like opening channels

825
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:46,720
really nearly. Yeah, yeah, because you can't back that out, right? It's basically there forever,

826
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:54,480
even if it's close. Yeah, it's then. And then you have all these issues, right? And I may be wrong

827
01:14:54,480 --> 01:15:00,240
here, but like in theory, you could have two different flavors of Juno or cash-rooted stuff

828
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:05,520
because they've gone through different channels. And then if one of those stops being used,

829
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:10,080
getting that back could be difficult. Yeah, you can't unwind the clock, right? Yeah, you can't.

830
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:14,320
The channel's gone. Yeah. We can't really open the channel through governance, right? You could,

831
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:19,520
yeah. But if there's not enough, I guess there's not enough token or denom out there, then it like,

832
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:25,520
who actually does that? And there are many examples of like three or four dollars on a channel and

833
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:29,760
people are just like, let's just let it die. Like, fuck it, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's just not worth the

834
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:36,000
time spent on rebooting it. Right. But so the other thing is, is people like, the way it is now,

835
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:40,640
people could actually just channel spam the shit out of the network. Like someone could just go and

836
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:45,200
open channel after channel after channel, right, Schiltzy? There's no like limits to the channel.

837
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:49,600
So you can make, yeah, you can just, and I'm sure that would absolutely fuck up the chain.

838
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:54,480
Well, and it would screw up a lot of the relays because a lot of us, we basically

839
01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:58,800
just do a wild card where like, oh, well, support any channel between Osmosis and Juno.

840
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:03,520
So that way covers all ICA accounts, it'll cover all contracts, it'll cover anything,

841
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:09,280
it'll just do it. Right. So, yeah, you could do that. Okay. So if you do that, and people start

842
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:14,240
making more and more channels, then not only does that mean I'm going to be using more funds to

843
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:19,680
keep them open because I run, like I run, the way I run it is I make sure that all the channels that

844
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:24,240
I'm running are constantly refreshed. They don't, they don't expire. Right. So I'm using more funds

845
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:28,560
because they're creating more channels. And it's very common at the start of a chain when like

846
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:32,400
Osmosis and let's say NOLA, so I don't think NOLA actually did this. I just, just the first

847
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:37,280
chance to pop my head, there'll be like 15 or 20 channels that open up in the first week or so,

848
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:41,440
because they're just trying to figure out like their channel. And it's very annoying.

849
01:16:41,440 --> 01:16:47,440
So anybody can open a channel, right? So that's a transaction on chain. I assume there's a gas

850
01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:51,680
fee or something associated to that. Is that correct? Yes, that is correct. Yeah. And then as,

851
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:57,040
there's a relayer, you're just wildcard, any channel that's open, you're relaying those packets.

852
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:02,480
Yes, that's correct. Yeah. So the channel creation should be under governance.

853
01:17:02,480 --> 01:17:05,680
This is kind of the idea, right? Like, that would, that would make sense.

854
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:12,880
I mean, a certain amount of extent. Yeah, I don't know. It would kind of have to wait a week to

855
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:19,040
open a channel, right? Yeah. I think that, go ahead. No, I was just thinking, like, it makes

856
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:23,840
sense, like on some chains, it seems like, like, so for example, do you know permission,

857
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:29,280
a smart contract platform? Why should you have permission to IBC on a permissionless chain?

858
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:38,240
But then, like, and I guess there's this funny thing of like, where do you vote on these things?

859
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:43,600
Because if everyone's got different, like, I assume that the vote is on the one that on the

860
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:48,480
outward bound, right? That you would go, oh, I would like to connect to this chain.

861
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:54,560
And you don't get a choice about whether you receive that channel. But then you need a pair of them.

862
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:58,240
And if you've got different voting lengths, you get in this period of you can get into a thing

863
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:03,920
where, oh, well, this is a three day vote, and this is a 21 day vote. So it just feels like

864
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:11,360
it's really messy. So I guess one way you could do it would be to like, just make them like,

865
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:17,200
the fee to open a channel pretty big. Like, say you make it $1,000 to open a channel,

866
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:22,640
you'd want to be pretty committed to it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't see why that wouldn't do it.

867
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:28,240
Yeah. Like right now, like if it's if you're opening a channel for your particular fucking use

868
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:34,240
case, then pay for it. Yeah, right now, whatever out of governance, there's five separate channels

869
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:39,920
open between Juno and Joe chain. That seems unnecessary. Unnecessary. That's a good example.

870
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:45,040
Yeah. So a good example. And even test nets, like there's a lot of Juno to like,

871
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:52,720
Sif chain testnet or uni six or uni three and why are they fucking channels to test nets? People

872
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:57,600
probably trying to like, oh, I can fucking take my Juno X out of here. And that guy who was it was

873
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:01,760
that you were trying to destroy and you I'm uni six. It's a one.

874
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:12,640
I got that fucker. I got that fucker. Yeah, I gave up there. I don't know who's like,

875
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:16,000
no, that was uni five. And then we're like, oh, we're killing uni five. I'm like,

876
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:23,280
my beautiful, my beautiful distribution, my huge stack.

877
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:30,080
Like ruined ruined. So there's another, there's another berry when we're talking about things that

878
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:34,640
potential risks the ecosystem. There is a bear. I forgot what the, what's the

879
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:44,000
I forgot what berries is what flavor of berry we've got. It is barberry. What is a barberry?

880
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:54,320
Barberry. Where's a barberry? Let's ask chat GPT. What is a barberry? Oh yeah, I've got chat GPT

881
01:19:54,320 --> 01:20:00,880
up and that's how I was trying to sound smarter. It isn't a real thing. A shrub or a small tree.

882
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:12,320
It's a shrub or a shrub or a barberry. It's yellow. It's great. So what, what is the the advisory?

883
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:18,480
I heard it was a high concern, right? High concern, but it's non-consensus breaking.

884
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:21,600
So we can just upgrade as soon as they come out. So that's okay. That's good.

885
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:25,760
I don't think there's anything else out at this point on what's going on. Yeah,

886
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:31,200
it doesn't have any specific information. Not like that. That's sensible, right?

887
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:35,280
Yeah, that's absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Open source.

888
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:39,280
Publish the answer please. Jacob with the helpful comments in the forum. What is

889
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:47,840
AMULAT? What is AMULAT? Thanks. So we don't know what it is. I'm guessing a bunch of upgrades this

890
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:54,800
week. Yeah, it looks like anything with a, well it's an SDK one is it's not even like

891
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:59,760
it is a wasm related one. Yeah. No, it's SDK. Why are they, why are they using the berry then?

892
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:06,720
I thought the berry was for a wasm. Anyway, it looks like yeah. So it's going to be a

893
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:10,960
dragonberry wasm wasm. That's right. Dragonberry wasn't. No, that was tender. Dragonberry wasn't

894
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:16,400
wasn't. I mean, I say this is if I know, I know shit about these things. I just, I just see them

895
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:20,880
happening and panic. And then I get all then people tell me it upgrades have happened and

896
01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:27,840
I relax. All I know is that every time there's a wasm mentions, berry mentioned somewhere,

897
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:33,040
I just cringe a little bit and die inside. I could only imagine being a pokachu or something

898
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:38,560
where you're, or even even a fucking lavender five, you got a lot of networks going on, don't you?

899
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:45,760
You should see. 40 or so I think. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a pain day to me.

900
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:51,600
It's not one. Ansible. Ansible. Yeah. So Ansible makes it pretty easy, but still really annoying.

901
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:56,960
Like it's only one command, right? So you have to enter upgrade names, 4.04, whatever. And then

902
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:03,200
emergency true and you're done, but still annoying. Emergency true is emergency flag.

903
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:08,880
Emergency flag? Oh yeah. I've got emergency flag. So what I, the emergency flag I'm assuming is,

904
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:13,360
is that it does it as a in place upgrade? Is that it? Yeah. In place upgrade and then it does a

905
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:21,200
free start. Yeah. And then it deletes the wasm cache. Oh yeah. That cache. So I think actually

906
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:29,520
Stargaze, they just said that, so they had the V10 binary, which was a governance upgrade,

907
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:36,800
but it included, it had something, I think it was one of these patches, but that upgrade needed the

908
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:45,120
wasm cache deletion, but they have since come out with 10.0.1, which has some sort of tweak to it

909
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:51,440
where you do not need to delete the cache. Yeah. So Jorge said that the cache, you cache, that

910
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:57,360
they upgraded Cosm wasm. And I guess the upgraded version of Cosm wasm for this fix changes the

911
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:02,720
geesh name somewhere in the geesh directory. It goes from v4 to v5. So basically the old

912
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:07,280
geesh would still be there, but there's a new geesh that gets created. Okay. So the old cache is

913
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:11,760
redundant and it goes into a new folder and then it goes to have a sigshev fucking explosion.

914
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:16,800
That's right. There's a new geesh that goes right in there. So I love it when someone

915
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:22,880
used like, what's a sigshev thing? Like, a what? Well, when you don't delete the wasm cache,

916
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:27,920
you get a sigshev fucking error. Yeah. That's what's a real pain. It's this depending on what

917
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:33,200
that's happening. I didn't know what it is when it first came out. Why? Because it's like, delete

918
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:38,800
your wasm cache. I'm like, oh, my system is getting my system. These service files are getting

919
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:44,320
pretty lengthy now because I have so much shit shoved in there now. But one of the things we had,

920
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:49,360
I think just recently was on the exact pre-start, which is just to go back and delete those geeshes

921
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:54,000
regardless of where they sit because they across different chains that never spots. But

922
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:59,920
so right now, right? Any restart on any service right now, the geesh gets deleted, which I think

923
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:03,440
is probably just a safe bet. Like, who gives a shit? Just gets regenerated. They have the

924
01:24:03,440 --> 01:24:12,160
contracts called. So don't need it, right? Fuck it. Yeah. Fuck them. So the, yeah, I mean,

925
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:18,000
those system defiles, man, there's so much stuff in system D that no one knows about all users.

926
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:23,600
Like that stuff that Krozeness came out with the other day with the where you can pass the

927
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:28,960
variable after the ad. Yeah. It's a system D template, right? Yeah. That's pretty good.

928
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:34,160
It is. I had no idea about that. Yeah. I mean, we use that journal D at

929
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:41,520
usurper for the log thing, for that little log hack. Yeah. So I guess we were already using it in

930
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:46,640
some fashion, but I mean, we weren't pulling a variable from it and using it in the system D

931
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:54,240
itself. We were just using it as a template against journal D, I guess. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So the

932
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:58,800
system D template allows you to basically start multiple services through one system D file with

933
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:03,360
like basically an ARG is really what it's like a param, right? Which is pretty cool. Actually,

934
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:07,520
I kind of dig it. I also like, I like separate, I don't know. I kind of like having that,

935
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:12,720
knowing that it's just tied to the binary name and some, some simplicity to it, I guess. I don't

936
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:18,640
know. I agree. I enjoy it. I think it's neat. I enjoyed seeing it. Yeah. But I was immediately like,

937
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:27,040
not for me. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Cause I think for his particular use case,

938
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:32,320
it is like for what he used before. Yeah. It seems handy, but I was also like,

939
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:37,600
do I need that moustache? No. Yeah. And I see there's, there's 20 different ways to cut this

940
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:43,200
cat. Right. So whatever, whatever works for, for each of us, I think is good. Sounds like it's done.