Let's just do it. Oh shit. What's the brand?
The back control was not here.
Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent validator teams.
I'm glad you did. Because the other three of us don't actually know the words.
I can leave now, right? That's my job done.
I was wondering if there'd be a moment of, and this is your host,
Bendy from the chat. Well, no, I'm Ben Davis from the chat.
Ben Davis. Oh, so hi, Bendy. I don't think believe we've met. I didn't even say hi in the
fucking pre-show shit there. Well, not, you know, we haven't spoken in IRO, well,
this isn't IRO, but you know, in person. I don't believe anyway. I could be wrong.
I've got a terrible fucking memory. I think we cross paths on a space for about five minutes once.
Oh, but I wasn't looking at you. So that doesn't even. Exactly. It was like radio, right? It doesn't count.
Yeah. Well, welcome again to the chat with some of the regulars here. It's because,
have you, well, have you been on the show with any of us before? Or is it just the stand-ins show?
It was the alternative game of notes, really, with Rahma standing in for now and funky playing
the role of Schultz and then Joe, I guess, was you, sir, but then he just left. And then Jake
obviously did his thing and she'll bow down. Probably the best other than the one where we
will, when Juno was coming back to life, right? That mammoth one. Still our most watched episode
is people watching the invariant checks go by on the screen while we all sat there and said,
when is it, when the fuck is this going to end? That's what, that's what's new trance launch
reminded me of. What, to stand there watching the, watching it go by? The, the, the, the, the, the
the power just like it's nearly there. It's nearly there. Definitely going to be there soon.
It's going to happen very soon. Then you just wait forever. I remember that with, I forget,
somebody else launched it took forever way back in the day to launch it was Ebamos or something
before maybe on the restart. I remember it would be like, it would slowly grow up, it would slowly
grow like 37%, 38 and somebody would drop out 37, 36. Fuck. That'd be your all day.
Now, before we get too far down the line, I should point out that the fray has left us with the drill
tweet of the week for the photo. Oh, he sent us a random. Wait, hold on a second. You're the most
critical person of the drill of the week and you're over here like, hold on, we need to
turn around because this is really important. He's turning around at it. Hold up. Hold up.
Wait, you guys, fuck up for a second. I, I mean, I believe this is, yeah, it says for tomorrow.
And then there's, yeah, he DM'd it to me. So I can, but I hadn't assumed that we would do
something that was like on the agenda within the first five minutes of the show. That's crazy.
Right. That's crazy. It's done. Well, I mean, no one really likes this segment. So maybe it's
good to get it out of the way. That's right. Nobody likes it. So let's do it first. Yeah. Makes
sense. It's like the starting act kind of deal. Okay. So in my standing for Fray, shall I please?
Yeah. Yeah. You'll, you'll have to do it. But, you know, just to be fair, like usually the fray
comes on dribbles a bunch of bullshit. No one wants to hear and then says the drill tweet,
which no one also wants to hear. And then we actually talk about something. So last week,
last week, he did for four minutes. He bulldozed right over you last week with the two,
because you were trying to bring up something else and he just kept going with the drill tweet.
I had to go back and listen to it because you just kept going and it just never, he just,
that's it. It was all over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go check it out. It was a big bore.
More eaten damn man. All right. I actually, I've never had a drill tweet read not in an English
accent. So I think we should keep that going. Okay. Right. Cause it's just not the same coming
from it's, I think it's, it's no, it's has more, more, more, more nobility to it. I think maybe.
Yeah. It sounds more important when others say it sounds less like trash. Yeah.
Yeah. Definitely. Well, so I'm fairly trashy. I'll give it a go. I will be hung by my ankles
and displayed at the zoo until I can prove to the sheriff and city hall that I have
centered myself with Christ. That's the one he picked.
Okay. That's what he said. I just always feel like after the drill tweet, I just had to like
bask in it to let it really sink in and like come to its full term. I feel like they have higher
meanings that I just can't grasp. That's a simple thing. And when they're read in a British accent,
it makes it even sound more like they're supposed to have some sort of higher meaning that
I simply can't grasp because I'm simple. It's like, am I the wrong one here?
I think I must be. Yeah, I'm like over in the corner chewing on the end of my pencil.
What? Someone say something?
I'm like, your mouth is your shirt. Yeah.
It reminds me of trying to read like,
Renaissance literature or something like that, where I'm like, I know these are all words,
but I actually don't know what it says. This particular arrangement of these words is just
beyond me. It's too much. Too much. Too much for this time of the day.
It's a great accent.
And then you just send straight into Sean Connery's.
So guys, I'm looking at this spreadsheet and I can't make heads and tails of it.
First time I looked at it, a couple of months to be honest.
A couple of months.
You are here.
A couple of months.
It's just like random words on the like just look, it doesn't make any sense.
It's just like random words scattered around the place ever since I stopped,
you know, coming in here and tidying things up.
Apparently the world's going to shit.
Well, most of the stuff is all related to, I mean, everything we had in here before,
we pulled a couple of things forward from a few weeks ago, but there was an article on
AI regulation versus crypto regulation. I wanted to bring forward, which was kind of funny.
And then this week, obviously, was all this coin base and Binance bullshit here in the U.S.
with the with the SEC. So that, I don't know if we really want to talk about or if we give a shit,
but I mean, we're on the right page and 65.
All right, let's start with that.
I mean, it doesn't even have the right people in here.
Or the guests for that matter.
I didn't even know it just came up.
They didn't even have a guest.
So delete that.
I mean, technically, Bendy's not a guest. He's on the second slot.
Yeah. Yeah.
Am I now officially like a friend of the show?
You're catching up to know.
Yeah, you are.
I didn't miss any for a year. I missed like one or two and they're like,
oh, fuck never shows up anymore.
You broke the streak and then that was it.
Down the live.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah. When nobody's giving the phrase shit because he's busy yapping at Aptos.
That's right.
Yeah, he is at Aptos yapping IRL.
I mean, though, you know, like, yeah, I mean, to be fair, like if it was,
if I had the option, go on the potty, talk to the boys or go and yelp for business,
I'd be at yelping.
Fuck yeah.
It's like midnight though.
It's a little bit actually not.
So like, well, whatever, it's 1115 or something.
There's a way is that?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Where is he?
Amsterdam.
Yeah.
I believe that I believe that that I was going to say that time of night in Amsterdam
is the best time for yelp.
It is.
That's true.
Yeah, like the yelping doesn't happen during the conference.
It happens like out on the street with like, you know, you meet the people at the conference,
you get their dates and then you follow up with them later on.
And then you go and get drunk and do drugs and then you dance at the Malady rave until
the roar in the morning and you sleep outside.
And you sleep outside the air and B and B.
Sleep on the patch.
Yeah.
You know, and then you make a contact for life.
So, you know, that's.
And you retain your foundation delegations forever and your validates business actually
serves a profit.
Well, no.
Well, what the fuck are you talking about?
I want to live in your fucking crazy world where you're made profits.
I feel like I feel like that's it's like that Charlie's chocolate factories fucking
Rosie world with all the oompa lumpas and shit running around.
I mean, is that Rosie, though the oompa lumpas were glorified slaves and like the
ocean issues involved here.
Oh, my god.
There's a big chocolate river and people are probably just fucking straight out of the
gate slapping the spin on fucking.
I want to pick this up, though, because the oompa lumpas only value chocolate.
So they're being paid.
They're being paid in the only currency they care about just because it's not living in
your fiat world.
Chelsea, you know, that's outrageous.
So in actual fact, it's more of an analog for crypto.
Yeah, they're being given these lovely delicious chocolate tokens.
Yeah, if we don't care about fucking fiat, it's just that that sweet, sweet, you know,
she knows shit going.
But it does.
But it does turn out that that chocolate is now in fact a commodity, not a commodity, a security.
It's a security.
So, you know, you got to pay tax on your chocolate.
But what is the I don't this whole security debate, like I'm a bit of a dumb dumb, I feel
like, because of this whole thing.
I thought I knew things.
But then, like, when they saw it's a security, like, what are they saying?
It shares in a company.
Is that what's happening here?
Explain it to me, you sir.
But I feel like you get it.
Yeah, you explain to us.
I feel like I have a decent understanding, but I feel like having the extra 40 or 50 years
that the user perhaps will be the extra.
All right, we go back.
Rowing this planet for an extra 40 years, it's made you wise friend.
This is where we need this is where you need artifact on because we talked about it one night
late and we talked about the like I knew about the how we test beforehand.
And what the what the history of that is, let me pull the history up real quick while you guys
make it make a make a short amount of small talk while I pull the right page.
Okay, so the thing is that in Australia, like, you I guess like the states of trailblazers
are out there like, are we we want to lead the world and we want to like, you know,
lead the debate on cryptocurrency and all that bullshit.
Whereas like when you come to Australia, the government doesn't give a fuck.
They just want to get paid tax.
They're like, if you trade in these things, you'll pay us tax and then everything else
about that we don't care about.
So it's a little like, I just I don't understand why like the whole XRP saga,
like how is that going on for years?
It makes no sense.
And now XRP is pretty much irrelevant because it's been superseded by other technologies.
Is it though?
I mean, it's still a top 10.
Is it not?
It's a top 10, but it doesn't do anything.
It doesn't even have smart contracts.
Does it?
I was going to say, if you exclude stables, it's top five, right?
It's like the Bitcoin, Ethereum, maybe BNB and then XRP.
I feel like it's, I feel like if you exclude stables, it's the fourth biggest currency.
Why it is is absolutely fucking baffling because I used to hold it, hold some, I sold it.
When I was early in the crypto, I was like, I got sold on the dream of XRP by some random people
on Reddit and sold it after I've taken it right into it.
But like, to me, it's just sending token, right?
It's, I'm sure there's like, maybe there's the smart contracts now.
I don't think there ever used to be.
But basically like they don't really have a decentralized manner of validating.
So like you have to be on the list.
You have to, there's like a list of trusted validator nodes.
And if you're not on the list, then you can't validate.
And like all the validators have to share that list.
So it's a closed circle and you can't really get in there.
And like Ripple actually distribute that list.
I'm pretty sure.
So the, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's cheap, I guess, to send transactions
and it's cross-borderless is the thing, but so is all of other crypto.
But yeah, I don't know why XRP is such highly valued by people.
I do know that like every month a billion tokens comes up and gets unlocked by the
foundation for Ripple.
And then they sell what they need to keep the Ripple company going and then lock up the rest again.
So basically every month the whole community gets dumped them by Ripple.
Well, so my, my understanding of why Ripple is still so big is like,
it still has the claim to fame of like banks buying into it and banks wanting to use it.
Right. Whether that's still true, I kind of doubt it.
But that was, because like, look at the list of banks that, that are like invested in Ripple.
I feel like they was called the dream.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I concur.
But I think that the reality of the story and like the reality in the story are have kind of
segmented. So like Ripple is still seen as like, oh, well, they're like blazing a trail and they
have good odds because banks are behind the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
when it's probably not actually true.
Aside from like the claim of banks wanting to use it and all bank transactions happening using
Ripple, I don't think there's anything really separating them from everything else.
Aside from, of course, that like the main guy has something like 70% of all Ripple, which is.
Yeah. So Brad Garlinghouse was at one point the richest man in the world.
Like for a day or two, during like 2017 or 18 or whatever it was when there was like the big
Ripple pump when it was four bucks or something. Yeah. I remember reading that in the news.
All right. So a little bit of a howie. Okay. Yeah. Howie. So the history here in the US,
go pull it up because it's been a while since we talked about it. But this is back from the 1940s.
I think like literally right after the war and hello to you at the time.
I was graduating college. No, actually, I'm sorry. This is 46 right in the middle,
right in the middle of one. So there was a Florida organization, W. J. Howie had a
sub business that was a service business. And basically what was happening was that the owner
owned large tracts of citrus groves in Florida, like basically orange trees.
They kept half the gross for their own use and sold real estate contracts for the other half
to finance future developments. And he would sell the land for a price per acre and then
give to the purchaser a warranty deed upon payment and full for that purchase price.
So then basically that purchaser could then lease it out to the buyer.
Basically that purchaser could then lease it back to the service company
and they would tend for the land and all this kind of stuff. So basically what it turned into is that
they were selling almost like a, what's the right term for it? They basically called it an
investment contract, but they were basically selling a warrant on that land, a warranty deed on that land.
They would lease it back to Howie to be able to run citrus on it and etc. etc. So the idea
was that, so the SEC went after it because in their words, this is back from the actual bill
that went through. It says, in other words, an investment contract for purposes of a securities
act means that a contract transaction or scheme whereby a person invests his money
in a common enterprise and has led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter
or a third party. It being immaterial, whether the shares in the enterprise are evidenced by formal
certificates or by nominal interest in the physical assets employed by the enterprise.
And so if we take this forward, what they're talking about now is that they're talking the idea
that an investment contract in the Howie test, again, it was a good job, but in the idea that an SEC
can determine whether or not a token can be sold to US investors and can and requires that token
compel, be able to be registered with the SEC, that if an investment of money in a common enterprise
with a reasonable expectation of profits to be derived from the efforts of others. So I think
what that kind of means is that I'm buying into a or I'm investing into a token, things happen within
that. And then the idea is that that token price increases because of those things by others, right?
Investment like the team itself, other parties that are doing that. And if later, if I'm able to
sell that for profit based on that effort, then that is considered a security. That's a definition.
So but when you take a step back, right? And you just consider that a currency is the same thing
as it like as a cryptocurrency? Well, yeah, because, but I mean, you don't trade
currency as a security, do you? But you take a step back and you go, well,
how is cryptocurrency different to like Fiat, where Fiat gains value from the basis of your economy,
which is off the backs of other people doing work, right?
No, security, because because one of them is the government and they're not going to say that they
are security. That's the answer.
So, okay, what is the implication of a cryptocurrency being a security? And I
feel like that directly relates to existing laws that they would like to enforce on securities.
Is that is that the whole deal? I believe in America, that means you could you need to be a
broker to trade it, right? Rather than you can't just do what you do at the moment where you go
on to an exchange and buy the token. No, I don't you can't do DeFi. No, I don't think
any of that's true, actually. I think it just I don't think that's true. It just creates it creates
rules and structures around what that security has to have and the registration of that security
and the regulatory obligations of that security to be delivered. So, it does I don't think it
necessarily and also I think there's some minimums here as well. Like there has to be a market cap
on that security as well. Like I don't think it's the zero. And so there's some other companies
coming things but like they like no said like like money markets and those types of things that are
just you know, wrapped small fiat type of returns. Those are all securities as well. So, I mean,
there I was trying to look up also like we're the definition of it here is what is is really what's
in question, right? So, if it does pass the Howie test, and if the passage says that okay, we
I'm buying a token at a specific price, there's work that's being done in that token,
meaning like in the project either by the team that owns that project, right, or by others, or by
etc etc. And my expectation is that goes up because of that work and it is a security. What is the big
deal with that? And so that means each of those tokens has to register or there has to be I think
a broker like somebody has to be responsible for that to be able to register that security.
There's there would be rules from Coinbase and other exchanges that are dealing in that security.
I think what that goes to is is also but at some point, like from us as validators, like we're
non-custodial, like we're an infrastructure type of structure that helps. We're not we're not directly
related to that security. And that's really where the gray area kind of starts to get into. But
well, I think where I may have confused things is I believe that you end up just done some very
quick googling to try to unpick where I've gone wrong. But effectively, securities, you can buy
them from the company itself. You can buy them from individuals that hold them. You can buy them
from banks and you can buy them via a broker. So if they currency that basically means that then
exchanges would need to be registered as brokers, in order to carry on in the model that we are now.
Because there isn't a company that could sell you a June or a atom or whatever.
And they would have to be registered for number one, they have to be registered. There would be
regulations of how they're managed and what they need to be able to carry on on the books and
those types of things. There would be regulation in terms of what tokens they could offer. No
different than like the SEC approving a specific stock listing, which I think allows it to be
traded anywhere. But there might be other, like say Schwab wants to be able to create an ETF basket
of stocks. That is a registered security, that ETF. And so they go through the process of registering
that security and I'm sure whatever controls are in place for that have to be managed and Schwab
owns that. So would Juno or somebody else have to register to be able to be allowed that other
exchanges could trade that? I would think the answer would have to be yes. So I mean, but how would
that even look like? Who knows? There's no central entity that owns Juno. There's no company that
issues Juno. There has to be an organization. That issues Juno. From a founding perspective
and from Juno. Is there a Juno Inc or a Juno LLC or a Juno Limited that exists somewhere?
No, of course not. No, Core One is no, there's no legal entity associated to that. No, not that I
know of. But also the question is, is even if Core One wrote all the code, they wouldn't be the one,
like at the point that Genesis happened, is Core One the people that have issued those tokens? So
is that the person that proposed that block? Is it the people that voted on that block? Like,
well, it's people taking code from a repository and running it. Like, it's not, I mean,
they, some of them were a cog in the wheel, but most of them weren't even, well, half of them,
weren't even involved with, actually less than half them, weren't even involved with running the
actual network. So, you know, is writing code, does that make you then responsible for?
Yeah, I think it does. How? And it's not even in the code of the network. It's in the words,
in the Genesis file is what actually, you can take that exact same code, change the Denom,
and the accounts that it goes to, and it's all completely different then.
If somehow you're associated with others, I'm surprised there's not an organization, by the
way, but if I'm sure there is for other organizations, like I would think, like I know there's a
Stargaze Inc. You know what I mean? Like, like, I'm really surprised there's not one at Juno, but
there is an organization, right? I'm not sure about the hub either, but
yes or no? Somewhere, somewhere, it doesn't be in the US, but somebody somewhere is responsible for
that, which means that if they, this is what I think their whole point is, if anybody can start a
token and be, and there's expectation of the Howie test that I'm putting money in, other people do
work, and that number goes up, then there's an equal amount of risk in terms of that being 100%
rugged or being fraud. And this is what SEC says, the consumers need some protection. That's,
I'm not making that point. That's the point that they're making. So, so now.
But that is, that is the three main points of the, well, that's one of the three main points of why
they want to regulate crypto and they are, I mean, it's all investor, investor protections,
regulatory oversight and financial stability. Right. And even if you have the FDX situations where,
like, where there's just massive fraud, right? Like, like that, that business should have been
regulated. That's fucking bullshit, right? Where you're taking basically staking components that
people think are earning on specific staking, and either that's a Ponzi where they're just replacing
those, or they are taking those dollars and using them elsewhere in a different business
to be able to make bad investments. Like, that shit is, that's fucking bad, right? I think anybody,
anybody would agree with that, right? So, so, but does that mean that the token needs to be
regulated, or the exchange needs to be regulated? And I think here in this, in this business,
how the fuck would you possibly regulate this stuff? Like, this is not a, this is like the rest
of these securities that we're talking about are either US based, or there's something that's
overseas that, that you have a US component of that are re-registered here. What do you get to
register, Juno, in 33 countries? There's no fucking way, right? So, and you're not going to stop anybody
from using that either. So, like, so then what are you trying to control? And I think the only thing
you can't control is the exchanges, is the, is the conversion into fiat. That would be my,
what else do you do? Like, you can't, how do you possibly control cryptocurrency? Like,
you, you can't put that regulation in. So, can you control US residents getting access to that to
turn it into dollars? Yeah, you could probably do a pretty good job there, if you really wanted to.
I think, because the other thing that's happening in America, right, is this stuff around
what makes a network sufficiently decentralized, right? So, that's the, the other kind of legislative
thing playing out, which I've got to admit, I haven't followed particularly closely, but I
thought was actually more interesting in the sense that it's legislation that's looking at
the challenge of here is a product that our current rules don't help us with, because what do you do?
You call something a security, but it ain't helping anyone. Yeah. So, if the purpose of the
legislation is to protect consumers, it isn't work, it isn't fit purpose. So, I think that that's
where you kind of go, this new style of product, and it doesn't fit the legislation dating back
to the 1940s. So, new legislation is necessary. And I thought that the idea that you might have some,
some rules around what would make a network sufficiently decentralized to not fall into
the security model was kind of interesting. Yeah. I don't know too much about that argument either.
Honestly, Ben, I haven't heard too much about that piece of it. I kind of don't,
I don't know how much this is real and how much this is bullshit lip service.
So, I forget who it was on Twitter, if I could find it, I'll put it in the show notes. But
somebody said, this is not coming to a head. Ginsler's not going to be standing on the
fucking steps of the capital building, making a major announcement around cryptocurrency.
That's not going to happen. So, somebody said that. I totally agree with that approach.
They'll settle with Coinbase. Coinbase will pay some money for this. Even though, I mean,
I don't think they've done anything wrong, but whatever. It's tough to play in a game when
the rules aren't set, and then come back later and say, these are the rules and you're fucked.
So, and maybe some of that they did know. And some of that they said, well, the rules aren't
set. So, therefore, we're going to do what they really want. And then there's some sort of reasonable
expectation and they're going to be outside. So, you think that Coinbase might cop a fine for
trading in under registered securities? Absolutely. Yeah. And then all they want,
and honestly, all I want to, that's what some fucking clarity. It doesn't have to be nothing.
Like the answer doesn't have to be totally deregulated and all this type of stuff. Like,
there are probably some good points of this that need to happen here in the US at least.
And there's probably some stuff that's totally stupid that you just have senators who should
have retired 40 years ago. We have no fucking idea what the hell we're talking about.
Right. And then there'll be some sort of balance between those two areas that I hope comes out.
And I think once you have clarity and once those rules are set, regardless of how ominous those
rules are, then I think that that might be, we always talked on this show, like, no, we've
always talked about like, what is the compelling event that gets us out of the bear? That might be
it. That actually might be it. Like some sort of fucking finality to say, this is it. And even
if those rules are ominous, like I said before, that clarity might be enough to say people,
people say, I understand this, we can work in the structure. Now, you know, now I'm going to,
you know, you're going to see new products show up because I know what the rules are now. And
it's not just like this fucking Wild West bullshit, right? I believe that's probably
correct. Because I also think that centralized digital currencies are actually going to be like,
this is going to make me so unpopular. But they are going, I think centralized digital currencies
are going to be the catalyst to the next ball. Because I think that because I believe that that
is when institutions like banks will get involved, I think there'll be enough regulatory
clarity that people will feel like they can run businesses. And I think there'll be enough
surety from the vast majority of individuals that the there is someone saying that this
number on a screen has a meaning in the same way as my bank account does, which at the moment,
they don't feel like I appreciate that that runs against pretty much the entire spirit of
being a cycle punk and anything like that. But I sort of think that's the next realistic step.
Right. I think so. I think that like, that is the sentiment of probably most of us here as
well, Bendy, because we've not necessarily that that might be the catalyst that that,
you know, breaks the bear cycle. But definitely we've talked about it here before that to actually
gain any kind of adoption with normies, you need like that safe haven asset to jump in and out of
that's not related to a centralized entity like UST or USTC like Tether or Circle. But, you know,
like, you know, it can't be like that there are like, you know, crypto. I mean, crypto is born
out of an idea, right? It doesn't necessarily mean that it has to follow that narrative for its
entire existence. And there can be like a subset of crypto that follows that narrative. Like,
but it doesn't mean that all of crypto has to follow that narrative, like things change,
things morph, things evolve, right, into other things. So what, you know,
Bitcoin can can remain the decentralized proof of work thing that all of the diehards go to
if they if they want something that can't be regulated, etc. But like in terms of the the
metamorphosis of the rest of the industry, then I think that having, you know, regulation and
clarity around the rules can only be good for the industry in that it can open the door like
your services to institutions and investors actually knowing what's going on and having an
easier door into it. I mean, if there's a CBDC and banks are on board, then and that can be
traded at exchanges like, you know, friggin, I don't know, Q coin or whatever the exchanges are
that people use, I don't really know, Binance. Then, you know, that's a window into the industry.
And that's going to on board the billion fucking users that we need to actually make a go of it
and get some stability in the industry. Because at the moment, it is like occasional investors
from retail that come in during hype periods or boredom, and then pump the whole industry and
then lose interest in the whole thing falls apart again. And then all the people who have entered
and trying to make a living out of the industry kind of left there with a dick in their hand,
trying to figure out what to do. But I think I got you. I've kind of wanted
to say that the alternative CBDCs are going to lead to like the de facto form of exchange regulation.
Like I can imagine a future where only a handful of exchanges will actually support,
I don't know, USDG for USD government. And those exchanges are therefore considered like regulated.
And if say Q coin tries to take USDG and trade on it, then the US government comes down on them,
right? And so you can trust whether an exchange is vetted by the government if it's on set exchange
kind of idea. I don't know if that'll actually happen, but I can see that being a future that
happens. So it's a very clear one to one like, well, this is here. So obviously it's been reviewed,
it's been checked. And well, I mean, that would need to fall within their jurisdiction though,
like, you know, that exchange would need to be registered as a company under some purview of
the United States to be able to, you know, make that regulation on them. There'll still be like
road shit out of other countries or decentralized centralized exchanges and, you know, that stuff.
So I think like, I think the listing of a USD, let's just call it a USD, because that's probably
what it would be listed as. I don't think that could be personally, I don't think that could be
used as the source of truth as to whether or not regulation is graced to this good company that is
masquerading as a centralized entity to trade your crypto at. Just because the nature of it.
Because FDX could have been any of the tokens on there could have been called anything.
They could have all been fiat currencies and it would have filled in a scam.
Yeah, like, yeah, exactly. The collapse of FDX, it was really interesting. I talked to a couple
of people who knew who weren't in crypto, but knew who I was and they heard this story and they were
like, oh, is this not terrible? I was like, this is exactly what actual blockchain prevents happening
because you can actually see where the assets are and you can see who holds them and you can see
balances and you can reconcile shit. And this is why it's actually... Honest, I changed.
But like, it's the same thing with Informal, we've got this this Kofi idea, right, where
which just allows for much more elegant settling of your your debts and kind of it means that your
speed of settling invoices suddenly becomes really quick.
You can settle your obligations and it's like, that sounds a great idea, but it basically only works
if you can trade in a currency that businesses can be comfortable with. And again, that, you know,
you go, well, that work as soon as there is central government tokens, like, tech like that is going
to come in, whether it's Informal or whether it's someone else, you know, tech like that is going
to come in and just enables it lowers the risk in the system, right? People are less likely to go
bankrupt due to cash flow issues, because your actual debtors compare you. Or you know whether
they can or not, you can you can judge those risks much better.
So I just tumbled off to make a cup of coffee.
Clearly. Yeah.
This week, there are on the mute me. Yeah.
I'm just glad he wasn't having a piss.
Yeah. It's like a naked gun.
This kind of relates to it. So we've had in the notes for a long time, but I'll put the link in
the show that there's an Axios article with with the open AI CEO. So there's a lot of obviously
there's a lot of talking out with like, generative AI and and everything else that's going out with,
you know, chat, GPT and Google saying and, you know, everybody's announcing shit, right?
And the title of this Axios article is open open AI CEO and historic quote, historic move
calls for regulation before Congress. So the open the open AI CEO and a bunch of AI CEOs are
coming forward and saying, listen, this shit's fucking dangerous. We, you know, we think we
should be regulated some sort of we want some guidelines and some rules of how this should
be done. And I think it's just hilarious that that, you know, I think there's a not just a coin base
piece, but there's there's been a lot of talk about crypto regulation and trying to get past
some sort of basic set of rule sets to be able to move forward. What we're saying what we're
talking about before. And and there's some quotes in this article, which are, you know,
Dick Durbin from Illinois, who's kind of a dick, called it in multiple levels, called the
historic company was coming forward to commerce, Congress pleading for regulation. And quote,
this is your chance folks to tell us how to get it right. Please use it said Senator John Kennedy,
Republican from Louisiana, talk in plain English and tell us what rules to implement.
How fucking hilarious that this is kind of a for me, this is a real, a real crypto negative
indicator, which is when you have it when you have a business that doesn't necessarily threat
traditional finance and those types of things. It's, Hey, man, you guys, this is good technology.
We want to use this. Tell us the rules you want us to implement that laid out for us and we'll
figure it out. And then this in this situation we'll be talking about here with like the US and
SEC and everything else, literally, this is probably what 10 years of some sort of aspect or at least,
you know, six, five, six years of requesting for some sort of clarity around crypto regulation.
And what you get is what you get is lawsuits associated that.
Do you think some of that relates to the initial culture of crypto though,
which was a bit, which was, you know, confrontational? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no doubt.
It's as much as it's now asking for regulation in some parts, majority.
For sure. But these are fucking adults, right? They're not, they're not like four year olds.
Like, like I understand what the original piece was, but also as a lawmaker, and regardless of
original intent, you look at the current situation and say, what's the best thing for my constituents
and for the general public at large? You don't sit there and fucking
quash things because you're a petulant child, which unfortunately most of this, I mean,
I mean, like I was going to question the entire premise of your thing of like, they're not,
these are grown adults, they're not four year olds. They're all like, that sort of is what
politicians, you know, and that's how you stay elected, right? Is, you know, appealing to,
you know, you don't have to do the right thing. You just have to win the votes.
Yeah, which I'm actually surprised because I think there's not really a massive cultural
backlash towards this technology, at least as far as I know. Like, I mean, there's,
there's clearly even for as much loss as there been.
Many AI or crypto?
Crypto. Like, for as much fucking, for as much fucking loss that has occurred,
and I know prices are in the shit and blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And there's,
there's clearly been, I'm not saying it's 100%, but for as much fraud and bullshit and challenges
early on and, and money flowing in and either contract issues or ruggeding or like, you know,
regulatory issues or like the sand bankpins of the world, all this type of shit, there's still a
tremendous amount of positivity. And I think the general public, maybe at least here, more than 50%
would say, there's a role for this in the future. How do we use this? And it's, it's still, you know,
this, these types of articles just kind of make me laugh and sad at the same time, because
the idea, the idea that lawmakers are coming forward and saying, like, let us tell us what
rules you want to say. Well, but I thought we was, let us know what you want to do. It just
makes me fucking laugh.
I think AI is much easier to understand, though, because we've had movies telling us that the
robots are going to come and kill us for years. So people, people, people are like scared of the
tech, but also, and, but kind of know that the innovation will happen. And they kind of, like,
weirdly, they've actually learned that you perhaps want to try and work alongside it. Whereas I think
my, my actual view on crypto is I don't think anyone actually understands what benefit it has
on any scale. I think in the UK, there's some effort by some nerds within the Bank of England
to do some good stuff with it. But the, whenever I tell anyone that I do this kind of thing,
they're just like, so how can I use that in real life? And I'm like, well, basically you can't
yet, but you should be able to use it to do these sort of things because it just is a measure.
And then they kind of go, oh, okay, that could make sense. But it's like, the AI just feels like
it's intuitively understandable, more or more scary. And where as crypto is like, well, that's
just banking. Yeah. Yeah. And I think here, I think what we were talking about before, which I
think is part of the case is that it's not going to be the exchanges like these exchanges are
going to pull it out. It's going to be traditional financial US large scale banks that will make
that change. So with USD as a coin that's led by Wells and Chase and others, with having
a set of offerings that are through traditional banks available in a portal next to other offerings,
that is what's going to end up making change here. And not regular, not Congress, not these exchanges,
not crypto bros. It's going to have to be something that's more traditional then,
that they understand there's money to be made there. And if they can find a way to make money off
of that, and it's regulatory and they regulated and they understand what the rules are and blah,
blah, blah. If that's there, then I think you see these groups coming in there pretty hard.
Right. And you're seeing that like, you see that with like Fidelity and Schwab has a, like,
they're all going that direction. I think they're all looking for clarity too.
USDC Circle has BlackRock, right? Yeah, they do. Yeah.
That's right. I forgot about that. But this is my thing, right? Like, as soon as BlackRock,
if BlackRock have more and more progressively more certainty, that's a huge amount of capital.
Yeah, I'll put that in the notes too. So that reminds me of what that is. That is,
they're using, that's the opposite way though, right? Aren't they taking
Circle deposits and putting those into BlackRock funds or something like that? Is that what that
is or what are they doing? Now, I'm going to have to remember this. I believe that Circle are
investing into BlackRock, but I also think that, but I potentially BlackRock also own some of Circle.
Oh, yeah. Because everything's a Circle stake, right? Yep. I think, yeah, everything's always a
Circle stake. Todd, sorry. Todd says, not, I said the word immaturity for the Congress.
He said not immaturity, senility, which is correct. Good call. Yeah, let's put, how about term
limits on that fucking shit? Jesus, what a mess. Or age limits. Either way. Yeah. So they've been in
office for a while. Is that what you're suggesting? I'm not from the US of A. It's a position for life.
Oh, what is? Well, politicians here at least, like to defeat an incumbent is
extremely difficult regardless of whether they're liked or not. Like Ted Cruz is one example where
he apparently is like universally disliked, but he's like undefeatable in Texas regardless.
Another role is like Supreme Court justices and those types of things. Those are for life, which is,
so once somebody's in there, that opinion is there until they're dead, which is,
which might not be at the same way that the rest of the public thinks.
I mean, we have that with the House of Lords, right? So our system's incredibly shit.
Once upon a time, it used to be that you inherited that. They got rid of that eventually.
Oh, really? It's handed down?
Yeah. So like if your dad was a law, like they were hereditary peers. So if you were
Serbendi and then, you know, my son, he would get to go and make laws after me.
And that was the kind of, you know, they would now go on a 10 minute rent about
landed gentry and hunting grouse, but we'll just take that as red and move on. But like,
so it was them and it was like the bishops and some other people. But now it's like the last of
the hereditary peers are dying off and then you've still got the bishops. And then basically,
everyone else is like the government of the day get to put as many people as they like
into the House of Lords. So it's constantly getting bigger. And they they're not elected
and they stay there indefinitely. So you just it's just math. It is literally cronyism.
Right. And because we've had quite a turbulent time in terms of like leaders. So when Teresa May went,
Boris Johnson, what's the face? Liz Truss, who are all prime ministers for a collective period
of like two years, maybe, like all of them basically put their mates and, you know, people
that they work closely with into House of Lords. And so now there's just more votes for their
particular political party. But the other side would do exactly the same, right? I'm not,
it's just the way the system is. But it's completely shit because what it means is,
is you've got a load of people that for a very short period of time, turn up to support their
team and then eventually get bored and just cream off the expenses. And everyone kind of goes,
oh, we should do something about this and never bother because it's not, you know,
when you're not going to win an election on saying electoral reform, right? Right. But it's the whole
kind of House of Lords in the UK is kind of pointless, basically, because it doesn't make
any laws. It just kind of it just gives us votes on the laws. It votes on the laws the House of
Commons have passed and it can push back a little bit that basically the House of Commons does what
the fuck it wants. Right. So you've just got a lot of effectively, you've got a lot of very rich
people being given subsidized wine. Too bad. Too bad the phrase not here. I know he's a huge,
huge backer of the monarchy. I know it's like it's like favorite thing and hereditary sell,
you know, sovereignty and all the type of stuff. I know like to base on here to really talk about
that because I know he's such a backer of that. He wept when the queen deceased.
I genuinely did, but that was because it caused me an absolute ballache at work because
we had to take that effectively. You weren't allowed to have a website. You had to have a tribute
to Her Majesty as your kind of homepage. You had to. We mean you had to. Yeah, pretty much.
So my employer at the time was owned. We were sort of owned by the council because I worked at
the arena in Liverpool. The buildings were owned by the council. The council had a legal obligation
to do this, right? Like doing that. So we had to follow suit and other places did as well. So
like if you were a royal something like the Royal National Theatre and things like that.
And then basically every business in the UK went shit. All these things are doing it. We have to
do it too. And so I suddenly had to create a whole new bit of functionality for our website
to kind of put this page in front of it that we didn't have. And at the time I was in the
middle of a kind of website upgrade project because our actual website was fucked. The
CNSS just wouldn't publish new pages. So I was just like when the Queen was ill I was literally
begging for her to stay on a few more days so that the developers could get this thing done.
And it was just it was it was really, really, really annoying. And maybe haven't like but I just
that I kind of would come home and just have no interest in anything other than was she still
breathing? What a shame. Yeah, okay. So sorry, continue Bendy. No, all I was going to say is
I'm pumped from a part of the UK that is probably less pro monarchy than the Frey is.
So, yeah, yeah. So Liverpool is other than having two football clubs and the Beatles.
It basically doesn't think that it's part of the UK. It sees itself as there's a whole sort of
Scouts not English thing. And parts of that involves just hating the monarchy. You know,
they're all this kind of thing. Wait, why? Well, it is kind of a antiquated concept in that.
Yeah. I mean, why does Liverpool hate why does Liverpool not see itself as British?
Yeah. Port City looking out at the rest of the world, we feel like we're closer to New York
than Manchester. You know, that's of our outlook is like out to sea. But there is also just like
we have been as a city, it's been shacked on from a great height by the power to be for a number of
years. On the great. I love this. It's your father. Damn. Yeah. I mean, right down.
Decidedly British shit that Bendy's been saying like Ball Lake, I believe is like
a reasonably British thing to say. But you said before, take that as red. Now,
I haven't heard any other culture use that. But I'm assuming that means that just
let's just assume that you've already aware of this and and covered it. Right. Is that it? Yeah.
Yeah. We're going to assume that you we're going to assume you've read the chapter.
Let me make it like it's that kind of thing, right? Oh, red. R E A D. I was thinking red. Yeah.
R E D. Oh, not like I was like, and and she'll see, please explain. Yeah. And how is this
communist? I was like, okay. I hadn't realized that I was so unintelligible. I just hadn't I
hadn't got that I was just talking nonsense. Yeah. Well, you know, so the British like Australia
have just a bunch of things that you say that you assume people know, but they're actually
co-local co-localisms that people don't fucking know. I clue idea what you're talking about.
Like yeah, like yeah. Well, because in Britain, you can spin someone a yarn, right?
Which is telling them a that's telling them a story. And obviously, that's where we got it from
is you blokes. You come and Ava to our country with your ships. And our crimes on our criminals.
There's a there's a there's a TV show called 10 Bob Poms on, I don't know,
fucking Stan or some streaming shit. And it's about the the English coming to Australia like
during a period of decline in England, where the poorer people would come to Australia to try and
make it. And apparently, we didn't like you guys much when you came over. We're on the street is.
Yeah. Like a second class. We do have a history of not being well liked overseas for some reason.
There's a there's a scene in this in this show, right, where old mates come over from England,
and he's trying to trying to secure himself some employment. And he's at the let's call it an
employment office, where you sort of go up and you're like, yeah, I'm here for a job. And they'll
like look at the little tickets with all of the jobs written on them. And they're like, oh, we've
got a job here for for like, you know, shoveling shit out of the latrine. And he's like, oh, yeah,
well, you know, I am a I am a fully qualified carpenter. And they're like, yeah, but you know,
you're not Australian. So then they're like, well, is there anything else they're like, no,
he's like, oh, well, I guess I'll take the shoveling shit out of the latrine job. And they're
like, okay, just wait a minute while we go and see if there's any other Australians who want that job
first. Anybody want the shoveling shit out of the latrine job? No, thanks. It's pretty funny.
I'm not sure if it's meant to be a comedy, but it certainly comes across that way.
It's a documentary. Well, I mean, it's like a docuseries, right? That's completely probably
off the mark. But that's funny. You know, good fun. What else we have on the list? Probably.
What is this fucking thing? Have you ever seen those Japanese Beatles, just like fucking each other?
I assume I assume that quote in the spreadsheet for folks are now looking at the spreadsheet.
The Frey and artifact are together this week at this conference. So I'm guessing that's where
they came from. Hey, so fun story. There's a there's a blockchain conference in Australia.
Is there the month? Yeah. Does anyone get a weird one? Is it sponsored by Big Balls Blockchain?
No, but I'm going. I assume you are. You're probably the only one there.
It's him and Rahma. They're just going to pub. I can almost definitely assure you that I will be
the only Cosmos Validator. So Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All the tickets are done to
Rava. I don't think I want to go, man. I think it's like I think it's a corporate circle jerk.
But there because they're like the big wigs of crypto in Australia, like,
you know, the corporations and shit are going to this thing. But it's like, is it like an
Ethereum based thing? Or what is it? Like, what's it on? It's just it's just whatever.
Or is it a finance? Yeah, it's not like based around. Yeah, it's like Bitcoin and fucking Ethereum
and all the bullshit. But so I thought I thought Rahma ran the corporation, though. But isn't he
isn't that his like entire thing is that he's the head of the corporation? He is the head of a
corporation. No, no, I think it's the corporation. Capital T. So so the way they do it in Australia
for blockchain week is it's not out of place. It's not like it's not. Oh, let's go to Sydney
for a week and do blockchain week. Right. It's like they'll have like a day in Sydney, a day in
Adelaide, a day in Brisbane, a day in fucking Perth. Really? And they got a day in Melbourne,
right? Yeah. So Melbourne's like the fifth day, like at the end of the year. You got something
specific against Perth because you were like, it's a day here, it's a day there, it's a day there,
it's a day in fucking Perth. So that's on the other side of the other side of the fucking country.
It's like six hours to fly there. I was like, I was like, you should go to that conference. So
you when you say, you get that you get that look, would you ever, you ever go like we were
at East Denver, right? We go to the Aptos thing or something else. And you say, I'm a cop. You
meet somebody new here. I validate for Cosmos and they give you like that sad puppy dog look like,
oh, how sweet is that? Are you just discovering crypto? Oh, you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Are you making
$10 today? Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Oh, IBC. I've heard of it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I love
this conversation. It's gonna be awesome. Just to fuck off. To the future, man. To the future, man.
Anyway, so they they sent me I got the ticket for the one in Melbourne, right? And it's all very
like this. Not like there's a big shed full of, you know, food shed, right? You know, big, big
garage full of those. It's actually like you go to the hotel and they have booked out like the
hotel's Ampe Theater or whatever they have at the hotel. And then people do like, you know, talks.
So I'm assuming it's going to be all very corporate and people like pulling each other off and
congratulating each other on another good year. Yeah. Yeah. But there's like a breakfast. I imagine
it's like a corporate breakfast. Tickets are free, of course. There's like this breakfast
in the morning. It's like at fucking 7.15 in the morning. So that's a corporate crypto conference.
They are not the kind of crypto people I know. That basically is exactly. Yeah. There's no
Lamborghini parking out front on that shit. There weren't Mercedes only. Mercedes and Bentley
Affair. S class. So yeah. And yeah, anyway, so that'll be interesting. I was thinking about
wearing a button up shirt. Do you have one? Is there one back there? I have to buy one. Yeah.
There is some shit hanging in the cupboard right there. I see. Yeah, it's not so. Yeah.
That looks like a button up shirt back there. Yeah, pull one of those out. There's a suit in there.
There's no fits. Somebody die. Someone's we die. So it's just for funeral. That's all easy.
Actually, I went to another. I went to a a a ball, a ball. It's like, you know, they've got.
So my my partner is a engineer. And so they have, you know, industry balls and fundraisers and shit
that you go to. So, you know, wear a suit. It's like the only occasion I wear a suit.
An engineer ball. That sounds like it's more of an industry thing. It's like, it's like, you know,
for example, like the water industry might have like industry ball with a fundraiser for
fucking kids with one toe or something. Your upper class high society, your God's gift to ballroom
and a trity. You always fill your room. The event is never small. The social pages say that you've
got the biggest balls of them all. You get that reference. You don't get that reference.
Give me more Australian than that. Yeah, it's ACDC, right? Fucking a my man.
How do you know my guy, my guy, my guy, some balls or hills and charity and some for fancy
dress. But the balls that are held for pleasure are the ones that I like best. No, I feel like
they should, they should be these highly what Chelsea, what the fuck, man? I got it. We're
talking about. I knew it. I should be the thing to inform big balls blockchain.
You know what? It really should be shouldn't it? I'll pull that up. Are you suggesting
we renamed the body to big balls? Blockchain? Oh my goodness. I think I think I guess we have
to get through to episode 69 and then we can call it a day. I assume he's a shock of
Robert says that you've shaved. Yeah, I mean, when you've only got one bag, how can you not know
all their songs? I thought that was like, I think didn't get singed to the, didn't your parents sing
to you? Like your mom sang to you as a good, good night. I figured she sang. She said she sang some
song off of those about to rock or something like that. Is that no? Look, man, I'm actually not very
cultured in the rock and roll in the musical ways. I love it. Is there anything more than ACDC?
You've got ACDC, what boys to men and that's it. No, no, no, you got no, no, no, no, no.
What's it? Oh, she's well, you got me. Brian Adams. Is he? I didn't know that.
Midnight Oil is great. Maybe don't men at work in excess is an Australian band. Right. That's
what I meant. Men at work. Not work. Yeah. Work is fucking awesome. In excess is an Australian band.
ACDC, obviously. Yeah. Well, so they say. Oh, Midnight Oil, great band. Silver chair.
Yeah, silver chair. The fact that that this is and that that is why I'm saying there is one band
because at the point where in order to jump in with another one, we're down to silver chair
already, I think we should we should be at a point where we just accept that Australia has one
contribution to music. Silver chair. Well, Sweden only has ABBA, so it's only fair, right? No,
Sweden also has what's that? What's that heavy metal band that's fucking up there? I'll think of it.
Hey, we got we got Daryl Brithowight. Now, he's Australian. We can claim him. Oh, what about that
gay dude with the glasses? Elton John? I don't think he's Australian.
Elton John is British. He's British. He was like Elton John was my last gig at the arena.
That was quite fun. Really? I was like, yeah, yeah. So I was backstage talking to someone there.
And then we all had to like get out of the way because Elton was coming and basically
he had to like he wasn't allowed to see that we existed. And then he was going to get into his
little buggy that was going to drive him from his car to his dressing room and then from his dressing
room to the stage. And we had to just no, that's not true. Really? Yeah, it's completely like,
yeah. I mean, if I was going to lie, I'd have come up with a better story, right? But yeah, it's
these kind of things. Yeah, it was quite fun. It's always good. It's interesting stuff being
at the arena because you did have these occasional global mega stars, but never any from Australia
because well, oh, Kylie, hang on. We've got Kylie Manogue. Who? She's more British than you.
Well, yeah, but she but but neighbors, right? Your one television program. Fuck.
She on back. Probably still running.
It actually just finished. They just they literally just ended it. I think last year.
And not soon enough.
It was big news in Britain when that when that finished.
It must be running longer than fucking the Simpsons 38th same sort of trajectory
equality as well. I think hey, Simpsons coming back right now. They were just literally I think
they were just reading about because I started watching this last season that's actually pretty
damn good right now. I'm pretty excited. Coming back. What's coming back? King of the Hill. King
of the Hill is coming back to it. Really? Oh, really? With propane accessories. That's right.
Propane and propane accessories. Beaver some buttheads back right now to be launching those.
That I didn't know. Yeah, he's been back the second season or third season. I just actually
watched one last night and it had a little bit of the like they don't watch music videos anymore.
Now they watch YouTube videos, which is actually which was kind of funny because it's different
because it's always fun to watch music videos. But but it's much more in line with today and
they make they make some good fun of some bullshit YouTube videos, I gotta say.
That sounds awesome. Yeah, they're good. Oh, so beaver some butthead is worth the watch.
It is. I think I mean, it's the reason if you watch it when you're I mean, I watched it like
back in the day, but like it has it's not like the same right, but it's it's slightly different.
But it still has some really good stuff to it. There's still some pretty decent stuff in there.
And this season of symptoms actually is pretty funny, but I'm still waiting for
more Rick and Morty's. Ah, Rick and Morty. I'm waiting for what's my what's my man's name? David.
Uh, the fuck is what is that show called? Dave fuck. Is it your enthusiasm? Oh,
with curb? Yeah. Can't wait for the fucking curb. It's like my favorite. Is that ending
soon? Is he is he gonna end in that or did he talk about it? I think it'll end when he fucking dies.
I thought it did and did it not. I don't know. Ending it like 20 fucking times. Yeah,
that's pretty funny. But yeah, he's just like, I don't know. They think he can. I didn't think
he can stop. It's like one of those people with a problem. More stories won't stop.
A lot of good stuff out of this year, though. Hey, so, you know, in the ecosystem news,
the Juno delegations are going to drop soon. She'll see.
And I don't think you. Great. Love it. Yeah.
Do you mean drop from the foundation or drop as in the number goes down?
Is this in the they'll make the delegations like in the next couple of days, I think.
Oh, from your cue. Is this from Q one or Q two or whatever?
Aren't you doing this quarterly or no? Half an hour. No, it's fucking way too much work to do.
I mean, I should have thought that it's fucking for him. It's one and it's one and done right now.
That's it. Never to change again. Like I would love to do it though. So like there is a
fucking lot of labor in it, to be honest. Like I had no idea how much work it was going to be.
And it's because your rules are too, too detailed. Yeah. Well, yes and no. Yes and no. So, I mean,
a lot of it was easy points, right? And I think we're we're going to try and go down a route of
more automation with Rama. Who who we doing that with? Can't remember the name, but there's
there's a company out there that's making like some automation software around this to monitor the
blockchain and help actually distribute those delegations fairly with the with the non non.
What was the word? What's fucking earlier? You like the non subjective criteria?
Oh, you mean, you know, where does the source of truth? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You mean, you mean,
so whether it's uptime or some sort of whatever. Yeah, like up some with a yeah, whether RPCs
are running Arco. I've selected because even going through and checking those fucking huge
pain in the arse. I mean, is yeah, whatever. Please say what you're going to say. It doesn't matter.
120 validators all offering the same exact services and not valuable. That's what I was going to say.
Yeah, that's why we're like who gives a shit like there's not even so great. You got like
one transaction to block how many fucking RPC knows do you need? Seriously, there's a lot of spam.
Seriously, I mean, I might argue even that the RPCs that we have available like using the chain
registry are more of a hindrance at this moment in time than they are beneficial. What do you mean
hindrance? I think that it gives really easy access for like, oh, yeah, doing various things or
maybe I'm literally nefarious things but nefarious things in the last gives them a really easy on
ramp for doing said things. Like on secret right now, occasionally, like the set is basically
going down because someone's writing an R bot and then they'll just sequentially go through the
chain registry and knock out all those nodes and then start attaching to random open RPCs.
And it's really annoying. What do you mean knocking them out? I mean, like,
dossing them out like like spamming them out to the node stops or what do you mean?
Effectively. Yeah. Really? Yeah. And what they're doing basically is like funneling a lot of
transactions and then because secret is just slower, unfortunately, like a very basic like swap
transaction, he's spamming them because he's trying to create an R bot, right? And that's
making basically the entire network slow down because so many blocks are being missed because
of it. So they're filling a very expensive to compute block with a bunch of bullshit and then
using the R bot to get whatever they want to be able to get. Yeah, basically.
Fucking hell. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Anyway. So well, I mean, RPC is something that I
think is like everyone needs it regardless, right? But I mean, doing something with them
is the important thing. Like they need to be behind some sort of load balancer that just
distributes traffic. There's no point in having them if they're not. But I don't know, maybe a
system that would make more sense would be like apply to be an RPC provider to be included with
the delegation program or something like rather than just saying here's my RPC, say I want to be
an RPC provider, maybe there's only 10 slots or something like that instead of having 120.
Well, that's a relay or two, right? Isn't like too many relays is not a good thing.
Well, you don't play for that either. So the way relaying typically works is like a network
will start and then people put like one token in their wallet and then they'll have a delegation
for it and they'll never refill it. And then there's like a handful of people that will keep
refilling it. So that one's also really the way we tackled the relaying is we distributed the
points by the amount of messages that were relayed, not like, are you running one? It's like how
effective is it? It was a big thing. This I say a big thing. It may not have been particularly big,
but there was a thing on Twitter this week about people, some people wanting permissioned,
like permission channels or like trying to reduce the amount of relaying that's happening. And I
was baffled by it. But these were all like in theory, relatively sensible people talking about
it. So there must be some sort of upside that I just couldn't understand. Presumably, they were
probably referring to like using the middleware and running through like a hub and spoke type
structure instead of chains like IBC and do everyone potentially. So at the moment, like,
Juno's got a channel to hear and there and fucking everywhere. And the reason for that is
is because of the way IBC works is that it creates a unique denom when you like create an IBC channel.
So, you know, like, I mean, it's kind of messy. Like you could have, if you send it through the hub,
for example, to another chain, so if it goes Juno, Cosmos, a cache, that final Juno would have a
different denom than if it just went from Juno to a cache because they're different channels,
like one goes through the hub and the other one goes directly from Juno to a cache. So you end
up with this unique denom and then like more escrow accounts all over the place on different chains.
So presumably what that was referring to, I think strange love made middleware that makes it easier
to, or maybe they made a module or something isn't it, Schultz, that makes it easier to actually send
say a Juno from Juno chain through a hub to another chain. And then I don't know how does that
work? Do you know Schultz? I have no idea. I have not read anything about permissioned channel
creation or anything like that. Yeah, I'm really completely different. Oh, here's Jake. Jake's here.
Jake with the info. Robert said something around government-gated ABC channels and
clients, which I can't understand. That seems like it makes sense to me. It seems, I don't know.
Oh, okay. Yeah, so it's completely different. So people aren't just like opening channels
really nearly. Yeah, yeah, because you can't back that out, right? It's basically there forever,
even if it's close. Yeah, it's then. And then you have all these issues, right? And I may be wrong
here, but like in theory, you could have two different flavors of Juno or cash-rooted stuff
because they've gone through different channels. And then if one of those stops being used,
getting that back could be difficult. Yeah, you can't unwind the clock, right? Yeah, you can't.
The channel's gone. Yeah. We can't really open the channel through governance, right? You could,
yeah. But if there's not enough, I guess there's not enough token or denom out there, then it like,
who actually does that? And there are many examples of like three or four dollars on a channel and
people are just like, let's just let it die. Like, fuck it, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's just not worth the
time spent on rebooting it. Right. But so the other thing is, is people like, the way it is now,
people could actually just channel spam the shit out of the network. Like someone could just go and
open channel after channel after channel, right, Schiltzy? There's no like limits to the channel.
So you can make, yeah, you can just, and I'm sure that would absolutely fuck up the chain.
Well, and it would screw up a lot of the relays because a lot of us, we basically
just do a wild card where like, oh, well, support any channel between Osmosis and Juno.
So that way covers all ICA accounts, it'll cover all contracts, it'll cover anything,
it'll just do it. Right. So, yeah, you could do that. Okay. So if you do that, and people start
making more and more channels, then not only does that mean I'm going to be using more funds to
keep them open because I run, like I run, the way I run it is I make sure that all the channels that
I'm running are constantly refreshed. They don't, they don't expire. Right. So I'm using more funds
because they're creating more channels. And it's very common at the start of a chain when like
Osmosis and let's say NOLA, so I don't think NOLA actually did this. I just, just the first
chance to pop my head, there'll be like 15 or 20 channels that open up in the first week or so,
because they're just trying to figure out like their channel. And it's very annoying.
So anybody can open a channel, right? So that's a transaction on chain. I assume there's a gas
fee or something associated to that. Is that correct? Yes, that is correct. Yeah. And then as,
there's a relayer, you're just wildcard, any channel that's open, you're relaying those packets.
Yes, that's correct. Yeah. So the channel creation should be under governance.
This is kind of the idea, right? Like, that would, that would make sense.
I mean, a certain amount of extent. Yeah, I don't know. It would kind of have to wait a week to
open a channel, right? Yeah. I think that, go ahead. No, I was just thinking, like, it makes
sense, like on some chains, it seems like, like, so for example, do you know permission,
a smart contract platform? Why should you have permission to IBC on a permissionless chain?
But then, like, and I guess there's this funny thing of like, where do you vote on these things?
Because if everyone's got different, like, I assume that the vote is on the one that on the
outward bound, right? That you would go, oh, I would like to connect to this chain.
And you don't get a choice about whether you receive that channel. But then you need a pair of them.
And if you've got different voting lengths, you get in this period of you can get into a thing
where, oh, well, this is a three day vote, and this is a 21 day vote. So it just feels like
it's really messy. So I guess one way you could do it would be to like, just make them like,
the fee to open a channel pretty big. Like, say you make it $1,000 to open a channel,
you'd want to be pretty committed to it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't see why that wouldn't do it.
Yeah. Like right now, like if it's if you're opening a channel for your particular fucking use
case, then pay for it. Yeah, right now, whatever out of governance, there's five separate channels
open between Juno and Joe chain. That seems unnecessary. Unnecessary. That's a good example.
Yeah. So a good example. And even test nets, like there's a lot of Juno to like,
Sif chain testnet or uni six or uni three and why are they fucking channels to test nets? People
probably trying to like, oh, I can fucking take my Juno X out of here. And that guy who was it was
that you were trying to destroy and you I'm uni six. It's a one.
I got that fucker. I got that fucker. Yeah, I gave up there. I don't know who's like,
no, that was uni five. And then we're like, oh, we're killing uni five. I'm like,
my beautiful, my beautiful distribution, my huge stack.
Like ruined ruined. So there's another, there's another berry when we're talking about things that
potential risks the ecosystem. There is a bear. I forgot what the, what's the
I forgot what berries is what flavor of berry we've got. It is barberry. What is a barberry?
Barberry. Where's a barberry? Let's ask chat GPT. What is a barberry? Oh yeah, I've got chat GPT
up and that's how I was trying to sound smarter. It isn't a real thing. A shrub or a small tree.
It's a shrub or a shrub or a barberry. It's yellow. It's great. So what, what is the the advisory?
I heard it was a high concern, right? High concern, but it's non-consensus breaking.
So we can just upgrade as soon as they come out. So that's okay. That's good.
I don't think there's anything else out at this point on what's going on. Yeah,
it doesn't have any specific information. Not like that. That's sensible, right?
Yeah, that's absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Open source.
Publish the answer please. Jacob with the helpful comments in the forum. What is
AMULAT? What is AMULAT? Thanks. So we don't know what it is. I'm guessing a bunch of upgrades this
week. Yeah, it looks like anything with a, well it's an SDK one is it's not even like
it is a wasm related one. Yeah. No, it's SDK. Why are they, why are they using the berry then?
I thought the berry was for a wasm. Anyway, it looks like yeah. So it's going to be a
dragonberry wasm wasm. That's right. Dragonberry wasn't. No, that was tender. Dragonberry wasn't
wasn't. I mean, I say this is if I know, I know shit about these things. I just, I just see them
happening and panic. And then I get all then people tell me it upgrades have happened and
I relax. All I know is that every time there's a wasm mentions, berry mentioned somewhere,
I just cringe a little bit and die inside. I could only imagine being a pokachu or something
where you're, or even even a fucking lavender five, you got a lot of networks going on, don't you?
You should see. 40 or so I think. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a pain day to me.
It's not one. Ansible. Ansible. Yeah. So Ansible makes it pretty easy, but still really annoying.
Like it's only one command, right? So you have to enter upgrade names, 4.04, whatever. And then
emergency true and you're done, but still annoying. Emergency true is emergency flag.
Emergency flag? Oh yeah. I've got emergency flag. So what I, the emergency flag I'm assuming is,
is that it does it as a in place upgrade? Is that it? Yeah. In place upgrade and then it does a
free start. Yeah. And then it deletes the wasm cache. Oh yeah. That cache. So I think actually
Stargaze, they just said that, so they had the V10 binary, which was a governance upgrade,
but it included, it had something, I think it was one of these patches, but that upgrade needed the
wasm cache deletion, but they have since come out with 10.0.1, which has some sort of tweak to it
where you do not need to delete the cache. Yeah. So Jorge said that the cache, you cache, that
they upgraded Cosm wasm. And I guess the upgraded version of Cosm wasm for this fix changes the
geesh name somewhere in the geesh directory. It goes from v4 to v5. So basically the old
geesh would still be there, but there's a new geesh that gets created. Okay. So the old cache is
redundant and it goes into a new folder and then it goes to have a sigshev fucking explosion.
That's right. There's a new geesh that goes right in there. So I love it when someone
used like, what's a sigshev thing? Like, a what? Well, when you don't delete the wasm cache,
you get a sigshev fucking error. Yeah. That's what's a real pain. It's this depending on what
that's happening. I didn't know what it is when it first came out. Why? Because it's like, delete
your wasm cache. I'm like, oh, my system is getting my system. These service files are getting
pretty lengthy now because I have so much shit shoved in there now. But one of the things we had,
I think just recently was on the exact pre-start, which is just to go back and delete those geeshes
regardless of where they sit because they across different chains that never spots. But
so right now, right? Any restart on any service right now, the geesh gets deleted, which I think
is probably just a safe bet. Like, who gives a shit? Just gets regenerated. They have the
contracts called. So don't need it, right? Fuck it. Yeah. Fuck them. So the, yeah, I mean,
those system defiles, man, there's so much stuff in system D that no one knows about all users.
Like that stuff that Krozeness came out with the other day with the where you can pass the
variable after the ad. Yeah. It's a system D template, right? Yeah. That's pretty good.
It is. I had no idea about that. Yeah. I mean, we use that journal D at
usurper for the log thing, for that little log hack. Yeah. So I guess we were already using it in
some fashion, but I mean, we weren't pulling a variable from it and using it in the system D
itself. We were just using it as a template against journal D, I guess. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So the
system D template allows you to basically start multiple services through one system D file with
like basically an ARG is really what it's like a param, right? Which is pretty cool. Actually,
I kind of dig it. I also like, I like separate, I don't know. I kind of like having that,
knowing that it's just tied to the binary name and some, some simplicity to it, I guess. I don't
know. I agree. I enjoy it. I think it's neat. I enjoyed seeing it. Yeah. But I was immediately like,
not for me. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Cause I think for his particular use case,
it is like for what he used before. Yeah. It seems handy, but I was also like,
do I need that moustache? No. Yeah. And I see there's, there's 20 different ways to cut this
cat. Right. So whatever, whatever works for, for each of us, I think is good. Sounds like it's done.