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the code hands. I'm like, yeah, fuck that guy.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent

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validated teams.

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Hello, welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from

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independent validated teams. And we got rugged again. We actually, so

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short C arranged a guest, got it squared away, and we got rugged. So is

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that now happening next week?

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I got fucking rugged.

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You're aware of how this podcast works, right?

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Yeah, it was pretty rude, though. And this fucking, that was a bait.

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That was a bait. We never baited before. That was a total bait.

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All I can say is,

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good to be a good judge. You die by this. Wait, hang on a minute.

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They had that has other implications, but

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all I could hear was, what was that?

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What was that movie with the when the guy goes ahead in time and everybody's

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stupid, you baiting? Idiocracy. Idiocracy.

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That was a bait. You baiting.

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So I had last debating.

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Yeah, there you go.

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Mastery.

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Everybody's caught up. Yeah, that's exactly what we're talking about.

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OK, we're all caught up. So, hey, so I had a go to conference in Amsterdam

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next week, so I may or may not be on the poddo,

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but I had a message from a friend, a friend of all of us, a valerator team,

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the artifact guys are literally getting a fucking houseboat in Amsterdam.

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Yeah, I was like, John is the craziest shit.

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He's bored. That's so fucking cool.

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And I don't know, maybe they maybe they found like the the sickest deal on a houseboat.

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But I was like, that's really bored.

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I'd air have like a two second look and was just like,

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shit, so I'm not with these Cosmos prices like a houseboat,

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more like a fucking before like a rowboat, maybe just like a sleeping bag.

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It's an aptos fucking houseboat.

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But John knows how to reward himself. He does.

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Yeah.

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That's the outlet.

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Well, it works hard and then balls hard at fucking conferences.

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Well, I guess you guys you guys know, because you've you've done the you've done

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the artifact Cosmos, the artifact conference experience,

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where I'm yet to ride that roller coaster.

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So you're not staying at the houseboat, is that what you're saying?

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I'm not staying at the houseboat.

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No, not with the party boat is probably incompatible

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with the very small human that needs shepherds.

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Oh, you're breaking the whole family.

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Oh, are you taking the bean?

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Yeah, it's like the logistical.

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It's just like the fact that it's a long like the with the the thing that I need to go for

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plus the actual conference itself, it's being away for five days.

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There's a train strike at this end.

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So once you add on the Euro star each end, I'm way for seven days.

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And it seems super unfair to be away for seven days and do absolutely no anything.

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Like not even be around in the morning or anything like, I don't know,

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it just seemed really lame.

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So just like, look, I will.

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Yeah, I'm going to carry carry the wee one across on the train system and take a

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take a take a travel cop, make a make a bit of an adventure of it.

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We all good.

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That's is it your first trip as a three-some?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Oh, no, it's a second.

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We obviously did some charity bike ride up in the late district

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beginning of May.

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So we had to go up there.

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Yeah. You know, no.

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It's very funny.

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The bike ride.

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What's that?

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The full crew came for the bike ride.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And it's a it's a big, big charity events called the Fred Whitton

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and says like, it's 2,500 people ride it every year, something like that.

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And then there's obviously a lot of people who come to the finish.

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And like, like it's a really big deal in the lakes, like, because it's basically

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in memory of this guy who died, who was one of the organizers of the Lakes Road

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Road Club cycling racing calendar.

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Sorry.

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He died very young of cancer.

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So they arranged a very, very hard course in his memory.

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But like, literally, you will cycle through some tiny little town

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six a.m. in the morning and they'll be like, you know, an old lady outside

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her house with a cowbell being like, like, yeah, as like, as like a thousand

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cyclists cycle past like they're like, good effort, good effort.

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And you're like, it's six a.m.

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Why are you up?

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Why are you up?

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It's like a Sunday morning.

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Like go back to bed.

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Enjoy your life.

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I don't know why we're up.

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They probably have no alerts.

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Fucking page duty going off.

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Yeah, they're all casals validators up there.

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Yeah, maybe maybe that's who like no drill or somebody really is.

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It was that.

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That old lady at that little cottage.

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She's got the data center in her shed.

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That's how it works out here.

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Yeah.

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So, so, I guess it's like a big event.

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There's loads of people there and have that have the little mini ear defenders

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because there's like a like some there's like a cover band.

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Like I think last year was like an Elvis impersonator this year.

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It's kind of like, I think it's like a Strokes cover band or something like that.

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And it was like, it's so like, it's so like rural, like it's like a salt of the stroke.

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You go to a rural place.

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There's like a dire straight cover band or something.

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You're like, yeah, we're in the countryside now.

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When you say ear defender, are you talking about like some weird little earmuffs?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Because there is a sense to like that, that age apparently.

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I say, I would have not even, I had no idea there's a thing, but apparently

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if you like, you take a wee one to like a concert or like something like that,

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or like a super big event with like thousands of people making loads of noise.

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You have to put little defenders on them and then you get this comedy,

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tiny little ones that have to kind of.

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Yeah, it's like too much.

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It's very funny.

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It looks very funny.

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I'll say that.

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But then because they're also so small, but they've got that age where they recognize you

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and they're excited to see you.

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So you just see this tiny human with this big headband, these massive things inside

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this head just go like, like that startled look when they're like, I recognize you

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and you're like, I'm back.

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Been suffering for nine hours, but I'm back.

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So anyway, what's been happening this week?

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That'd be cool.

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We can Amsterdam.

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Yeah.

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It'd be fun.

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Yeah, it'll be.

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I mean, I kind of just want to see, like I feel like there are people who are much better

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at networking and business.

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Yes, there are.

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There are.

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All right.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Ha ha.

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No, no, I mean, from you, like all of us, but yes, I agree.

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We'll show.

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But I feel like art is particularly good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I want to kind of like.

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And the phrase, what is the conference that you're going to?

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It's like a big FinTech conference.

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It's called Money 2020.

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Money 2020.

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Money.

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Yeah.

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I've heard of that stuff.

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Would you believe it?

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Because it has like, I think an open visitor book or something for other attendees, the

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number of fucking server type companies that have since got in touch, since I got a pass,

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they were just like, hey, what do you mean server type companies?

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Like, like, you know, like, you know, like hosting.

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Hosters?

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Data center.

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Oh, really?

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You know, being at the end of the day, you know, you can go to custom racks for you,

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that kind of stuff.

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And like all of the various tiers of I want to build a data center from like, you know,

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the actual, you know, we'll manage it for you to, we'll actually assemble blades for

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you.

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Quite a lot of people were like, which is weird because we didn't really describe what

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we do as a company in the most honest terms.

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It doesn't matter.

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Hetzner awkwardly absent from the conference.

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We don't want Mr. Hetzner finding out.

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Big H.

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Big H, yeah.

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It's like walking around the conference making notes, needle cast.

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100% getting busted.

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You can't everywhere here.

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Fucking they go to their client list.

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And it's motherfucker.

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Yes, this goes on.

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Yeah, I do.

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2020.

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Yeah.

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It's like, it's a very weird looking conference.

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Let me be honest.

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So there's a couple, basically there's a couple of side events.

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Plus obviously seeing the, the OGs, the legends that are the artifact folks.

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But it's, I just have the feeling it's going to be a very weird conference compared to

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like, I think the last one I went to was, was gateway last year, which couldn't really

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be more different.

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It's like a small niche cosmos conference.

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I'm, I'm sorry, Frey.

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Did you purchase a standard pass for this money?

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2020?

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No, no.

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That's what you said earlier.

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Heat.

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3,695 euros.

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I know, right?

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It's outrageous.

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Fucking.

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But like conferences are expensive, dude.

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But you know, like even I could come up with this one, but it was another one where I,

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again, I was like talking about like, holy shit, this year is expensive.

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Like, obviously it was one last year.

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It was like a, maybe it was token 2049 or something like that where I was just like,

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man, who's going to pay like whatever the number was, $3,000 to go to a conference.

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And an artifact was like, if you can't, if you can't make back $3,000 in new business

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from a conference, what are you doing?

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And I was like, artifacts, I cannot make back $3,000 in new business.

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I was like, hold my beer.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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The other John Travolta beam of the light.

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That was kind of his reaction.

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He was like, there's all these rooms full of people that you could make money off.

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What is it?

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John's fun to watch because he'll just go through and just chronologically go to every

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single person in a room and then go to the next room and hit every single person in the

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room and then go to the next room and hit every single person in the room.

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It takes a special type of somebody to go kiss 1000 frogs.

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It really does.

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Like, and like that's a compliment because that's what it is.

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Like you just have conversations about anybody with anything just to see.

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And every 1000 you meet somebody's like, Oh yeah, by the way, I'm the CEO of giant big

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balls capital and I'm looking for a validator to run my $200 million thing and nobody's talking

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to me.

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And then you're like, Oh yeah, 999 frogs later, you get to another one of those.

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And like, you're more of a Johnny Small balls.

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But that's like, but that's how it happens.

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I mean, that literally you have to kiss 1000 frogs to find it.

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Right.

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And well, it takes a lot of energy to do that.

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Yeah.

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I was kind of being like, what is it?

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And yeah, you're saying that, yeah, you just need to talk to a lot of people.

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You do.

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Yeah.

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And a lot of those pass go nowhere.

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You might spend money with them.

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You might, right?

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You might provide them with something X, Y or Z or project, turn to nothing.

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Like it's kind of, but you really have to, it's, and it's really, it's mentally exhausting.

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Yeah.

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Really mentally exhausting.

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So you all think, I think it's the fray.

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How, how did you get in here?

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You are sneaking in the back door or did you get like some sort of free pass action?

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Let's, let's just say that the vetting process that you have to go through to get any kind

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of a fucking discount under any of the discount categories is ridiculously, ridiculously thorough

251
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to a point that I, if I had known, I probably wouldn't have bothered, but I was downed if

252
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:53,160
I wasn't going to get the super cheap pass.

253
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,160
Once, once, once I actually had to start providing evidence, I was like, right, this is now a

254
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:57,160
game.

255
00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:03,160
The great thing about us as a company is like, we are

256
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,160
Diversified.

257
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:12,160
We are a consultancy to do a number of things and we work in and out of web three and we

258
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,160
have like other projects that they're just not relevant to this podcast at all.

259
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:23,160
And so like, essentially there's, we do just enough random crap that if you really big up

260
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,160
any one of these tiny little things we've done over the last two years, you can kind of make

261
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,160
up anything if you just really commit to it.

262
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,160
And it's like that kind of thing where you can't go like, well, this project is really

263
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,160
like, you know, it was a great project for us and it's now our focus going forward or

264
00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:39,160
something like that.

265
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,160
And people are like, that was a four week project one and a half years ago.

266
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,160
And you're like, yeah, but we feel like as a business that is the area we want to develop.

267
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,160
Really, really leaning on that.

268
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:53,160
And you need to show us some evidence you are actually developing this area of your business.

269
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:54,160
How many people even work for you?

270
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,160
You're like, right, okay, it's time to really lose count.

271
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,160
I lose count.

272
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,160
In the UK or global?

273
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:03,160
Yeah, exactly.

274
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:08,160
I'm just like, look, you're asking a big dog to count how many of the Jimmy Smallbore's

275
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:09,160
are in the building.

276
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,160
And I couldn't tell you, I couldn't tell you.

277
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,160
Maybe go look at our Wikipedia page.

278
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,160
And we have like some indicative numbers of our head office capacity or something like

279
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,160
because there is no building.

280
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,160
Maybe there is no building.

281
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:29,160
That actually was the thing that recently happened on a contract was I asked how many

282
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,160
people, sorry, I was like, sorry, don't question how many people actually work for the company

283
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:38,160
as a total because I'm really struggling to get a handle on the context.

284
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,160
And literally I asked that like three or four senior people, they had no idea.

285
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,160
The fourth person was like, I don't know, it's somewhere between 500 and 5000.

286
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,160
Hey, you know what?

287
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,160
Wikipedia might know and they were right.

288
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,160
It had like a rough head count of Wikipedia.

289
00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,160
And then later on I did actually find somebody who knew and they gave me the exact number.

290
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,160
And Wikipedia was in like 45 people out or something.

291
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,160
It was like uncannily close.

292
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,160
I should have asked chat.

293
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,160
You would have got the correct answer straight away.

294
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:11,160
That's right.

295
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,160
Correct answer.

296
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

297
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,160
Or it would have gas lit you and been like, there's only two people that work there.

298
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,160
Here's my sources.

299
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,160
Yeah, of course, I'm telling the truth.

300
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:25,160
Yeah, at this point it's like you're right against mine, right?

301
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,160
Yeah, it's done that to me a couple of times where I ask a question.

302
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,160
It's like verifiably wrong and it's like, nah, I'm right.

303
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,160
Here are my sources and the source doesn't exist.

304
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,160
What are you talking about?

305
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:43,160
I've asked some code and it's like gives me wrong shit and I'm like, that's not right.

306
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:44,160
Can you try again?

307
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:45,160
They're like, yeah, no worries.

308
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:46,160
Use this.

309
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,160
You would just ask it to do rust, right?

310
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,160
Because if you ask it to do rust, it will get it close but wrong.

311
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:58,160
And then the rust compiler has the auto complete stuff where it tells you why you're wrong.

312
00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,160
So the code's wrong.

313
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,160
And then the rust compiler is like, yo, that code is really wack.

314
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,160
But hey, I can't even remember this.

315
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,160
I mean, just do it for you.

316
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,160
You can take back 2.8b to fix it.

317
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:18,160
Yeah, and your text editor usually will have like, oh, accept suggestion from the rust compiler.

318
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,160
And so you can literally just black at this point.

319
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,160
You don't have to do any work ever again.

320
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,160
You can just be like, hey, this is wrong.

321
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,160
And then a compiler is like, these types of wack.

322
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,160
Would you like me to fix them?

323
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,160
Clippy style.

324
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,160
And you're like, damn right, rust me.

325
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:34,160
Rust me timbers.

326
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,160
Clippy style.

327
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,160
Clippy me.

328
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,160
Clippy me.

329
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,160
I'm sure we tout, ah, yeah, anyway, whatever.

330
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,160
Hey, have you seen that thing where this is a bit off topic?

331
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,160
Everything's a bit off topic, really, isn't it?

332
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,160
We haven't talked about Cosmos once in 16 minutes.

333
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,160
But except for mentioning that we did have a Cosmos guest and we got rugged.

334
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,160
I don't think we talked about 3 fucking episodes.

335
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:56,160
What's that?

336
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,160
I don't think we've talked about Cosmos in three episodes.

337
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,160
Has anything happened to the Cosmos for three episodes?

338
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,160
Have you seen that?

339
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,160
Have you seen that React library where it's just Windows 95?

340
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:10,160
No.

341
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,160
It's super awesome.

342
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,160
It's called React 95, I think.

343
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:21,160
And it basically is a React website that is the desktop from Windows 95.

344
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:22,160
And it even works.

345
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,160
You can open up some of the things.

346
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,160
And then it's really cool.

347
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:35,160
But you can obviously then use it to make your own React Windows 95-type website if you were so inclined.

348
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,160
I almost did it when rebuilding the Envoys website.

349
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:46,160
And I was just like, this is not going to go down well with a corporate client on the consulting side of the business.

350
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:51,160
So I reluctantly, with a heavy heart, decided not to do it.

351
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,160
But I just think, yeah, I think React 95 is so, so cool.

352
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,160
Because I'm a complete loser.

353
00:16:58,160 --> 00:16:59,160
So, yeah.

354
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,160
No exactly plot twist.

355
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:07,160
I can see the faces of everybody looking up React 95 and being pleasantly surprised by what they've found.

356
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,160
It's amazing.

357
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,160
It's pretty awesome.

358
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:14,160
I was a bit like recommending it, but now I'm happy.

359
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,160
Speaking of amazing things.

360
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,160
Steve, I miss you.

361
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,160
Steve, where have you been?

362
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:22,160
Where is he?

363
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,160
Steve was in charge of the Cosmos. The price wouldn't be tanking, would they?

364
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,160
It'd be up only.

365
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:28,160
Would it?

366
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:29,160
Would it?

367
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,160
Still be running Windows 95.

368
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,160
Well, now I've said it.

369
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:36,160
Oh, hey.

370
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:37,160
I promise tanking.

371
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,160
I didn't notice.

372
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,160
No, not really.

373
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,160
It's been up.

374
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:45,160
Hey, I've just found this meme, which is really related to what Shorsi was said about chat GPT.

375
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:52,160
We've put quite a lot of good little memes in the show thing over the years.

376
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,160
I think this is maybe my favorite, though.

377
00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:00,160
Also factually correct for this week.

378
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:09,160
It was a national holiday here, so I had the weekend off and came back to like 500, 600 notifications.

379
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:15,160
I was like, ah, Jacob is my guest.

380
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:16,160
I wasn't wrong.

381
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,160
Wait, what are you talking about?

382
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,160
Oh, the whatever drama happened over the weekend, lots of drama.

383
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,160
The fucking explosion with wind and who was the other one?

384
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,160
I didn't see any of this.

385
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:30,160
Oh, shit.

386
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,160
You've lived.

387
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,160
You've lived.

388
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,160
Just delete fucking everything and don't look at it.

389
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,160
Wait, what happened?

390
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,160
Oh, we can talk cosmos.

391
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,160
All right, we can talk cosmos.

392
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,160
Let's talk cosmos.

393
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,160
How is this not in the spreadsheet?

394
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,160
This is a giant thing you guys are ignoring.

395
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:46,160
Just say it.

396
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,160
Fuck it.

397
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,160
Give me a massive drama.

398
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:49,160
Like, this is just more of the same shit.

399
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:50,160
I literally deleted Twitter.

400
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,160
I know this weekend, this last weekend.

401
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,160
Yeah, I don't see anything like this before.

402
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,160
So no, I'll let you talk through the situation.

403
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,160
But the best thing about it, I want to say this upfront because the most important thing

404
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,160
about the drama is that we were all right, right?

405
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,160
Because the who's we like this?

406
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:12,160
The show that remember when there was that open source, that open source debate way back

407
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:17,160
when and we were like, you need the flexibility to decide what parts of your stack and your

408
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,160
value add are closed source other than the contracts contracts group should be open source

409
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,160
for the rest of it.

410
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,160
The business decision, right?

411
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,160
And somebody else would just agree code.

412
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,160
Yeah, was basically what we came down on.

413
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,160
Well, that was because that was on the basis of Don did a thing to say like, nothing should

414
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:31,160
be fine unless it's open source.

415
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,160
And we said that's bullshit.

416
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,160
Or I said that was bullshit because you're buying you're buying results.

417
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,160
You're not buying code, right?

418
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,160
You're buying input.

419
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,160
Imagine my surprise that the chickens have come home to roof.

420
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:42,160
Why would happen?

421
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,160
I don't know.

422
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,160
So I mean, I sum it up.

423
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:48,160
Come on.

424
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,160
Yeah, I just thought it was too dark for me for this play.

425
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,160
Yeah, it was like, it was a couple of different things.

426
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,160
Wasn't it?

427
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,160
Frey and but I think one of them was the wind contracts.

428
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,160
So wind.

429
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:07,160
What didn't we like do some funding for them or something in a invested way?

430
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:13,160
And then now that they've been funded, Jacob pointed back to that prop 64.

431
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:19,160
I'm going to say, I think it was the open sourcing prop and he's like, the contracts

432
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,160
should be open sourced, but they are open sourced.

433
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:28,160
And then there was like some talk about whether or not they were copied from another project,

434
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:36,160
which is clearly stated in the fucking GitHub repo that they are and always have been based

435
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:41,160
on like the Astro port contracts, etc, etc.

436
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,160
And then it was just fucking on and on and on with bullshit.

437
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,160
Like two days.

438
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,160
So what's the issue so far?

439
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,160
So what's the issue?

440
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,160
And then again, then it was built over to Dowdow as well.

441
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,160
Oh yeah.

442
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:59,160
Is it, is it that they weren't open sourced or they were open sourced?

443
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,160
No, no, they were saying that they should be open sourced when they are.

444
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,160
But then it was like down to the front end, I think they were talking about for a little while.

445
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,160
Oh, so everything should be open sourced.

446
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,160
Like no matter what, anything that touches blah, blah, blah.

447
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:12,160
Yeah.

448
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,160
And then there's just fucking drivel for like two days.

449
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,160
Fuck man, you should have just go back like I don't know.

450
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,160
I don't want to.

451
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:22,160
That's the reason I'm on this show.

452
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:28,160
The public Juno chat, the fucking bile that was being spilled into that for fucking two days.

453
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,160
It was on discord.

454
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,160
Yeah, on on on on telegram, the telegram.

455
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,160
Oh, I ignore the shit of that thing.

456
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,160
Jesus Christ.

457
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:45,160
I actually sat there and read it for three hours to just like I read 700 messages.

458
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,160
Just how many arguments did you pick?

459
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,160
None.

460
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,160
None.

461
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,160
I didn't type a thing.

462
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,160
I was just like the fly on the wall, rating the shit.

463
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,160
I was like, this is hilarious.

464
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,160
But the the Twitter pod, I just couldn't handle that shit anymore.

465
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,160
So did Jacob start all this?

466
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,160
Like was it was that where it started?

467
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,160
Or why did it even come up?

468
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,160
Like why did the eye of sorrow and focus on this?

469
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,160
Like what changed where it became a issue?

470
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,160
Look, I have a theory as to why it'll begin.

471
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:16,160
But you know, sometimes Jacob just picks the things and starts whacking on it.

472
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,160
Yeah, but usually something has to.

473
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,160
You can't say that.

474
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,160
Something never.

475
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,160
Something has to something has to tip, right?

476
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,160
There has to be an event.

477
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,160
Well, I do believe there was a catalyst, but that's pure speculation on my part.

478
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,160
Is it spicy?

479
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,160
Your theory?

480
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,160
I mean, it's publicly verifiable.

481
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,160
If you do, I mean, it was mentioned on the podcast a few weeks ago.

482
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,160
Oh, what?

483
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,160
One hour 25.

484
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,160
Wow.

485
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:43,160
All right.

486
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,160
We're not going to say.

487
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:53,160
Well, so the there's the whole thing of like way back when Cor 1 had those two big spend

488
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,160
props for.

489
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,160
Oh, they paid the first three months.

490
00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:59,160
The denial.

491
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,160
They halted them.

492
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,160
Right.

493
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:02,160
Yes.

494
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,160
They were unilaterally halted and there wasn't actually a prop on Cor 1.

495
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,160
They just stopped paying.

496
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,160
And then so.

497
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:17,160
That actually wasn't communicated essentially until after me and Max joined Cor 1 and we're

498
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:22,160
like, this still hasn't actually like this is everybody knows this has stopped, right?

499
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,160
Because it stopped.

500
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,160
Nobody's getting paid.

501
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,160
Like and at that point, I think no contributor is not even the doubt our guys were getting

502
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:29,160
paid.

503
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,160
Like literally nobody was getting paid.

504
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,160
Everything was halted.

505
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,160
And so it's like, well, everybody knows it's halted.

506
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,160
Everybody knows you're not going to pay another $900,000 to these two companies.

507
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,160
So yeah.

508
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,160
So why has this not been addressed essentially?

509
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,160
So they took the they took the Bob's approach from office space.

510
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,160
They treat like Milton.

511
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,160
They fixed they fixed the glitch.

512
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,160
It worked itself out.

513
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,160
We fixed the glitch.

514
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:53,160
Maybe it would have done.

515
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,160
So you told no should only you're going to pay it.

516
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,160
We fixed the glitch.

517
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,160
Yeah.

518
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:06,160
I mean, for sure that that's subject to come up quite a few times in the 4,000 messages.

519
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:11,160
I mean, and the thing is, I'm sure you're dead on the money because as as, okay, this

520
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,160
might be a spoiler, but okay, I won't say what happened.

521
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,160
But you know, at the end of office space, Milton does find out and there are consequences

522
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,160
for the there are.

523
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,160
That's right.

524
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,160
This is this is a little bit.

525
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,160
There are consequences for that.

526
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,160
It's great.

527
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,160
So we're going to I think we're going to burn Jino down.

528
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,160
Is that what's going to happen here?

529
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,160
That's what happened this weekend.

530
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,160
I had a jelly good crack at it anyway.

531
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,160
Yeah.

532
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:39,160
Yeah.

533
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,160
There was a lot of time.

534
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,160
So there's a lot of tagging.

535
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,160
I know I had been tagged in a lot of stuff to burn out.

536
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,160
It's tough to burn down a building that's already on fire.

537
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:53,160
I mean, I mean, yeah, I think this points this morning.

538
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,160
That was too close.

539
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,160
Yeah.

540
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:57,160
I don't know.

541
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:02,160
It's one of those where I just didn't engage with it, but there is a whole.

542
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,160
Too funny.

543
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,160
Yeah.

544
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,160
I didn't engage with it, but I certainly fucking read all of it.

545
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:12,160
I didn't even realize I was tagged and the couple of things I was tagged in.

546
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:17,160
I can't remember what it was, but I feel like the answer was just like, yes.

547
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:22,160
Because it was like something like it's something like a Utah, you know, something, something,

548
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,160
something.

549
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,160
The fray thinks this work is basically worthless.

550
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,160
And that's what he said privately.

551
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,160
And it was just like, well, yeah, basically.

552
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:39,160
I can say that publicly, but I just don't really feel like arguing with a bad faith

553
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,160
arguer in a public forum.

554
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,160
It's not going to be a.

555
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,160
Well, there's no basis of fact, right?

556
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,160
It's all just.

557
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,160
Yeah, it's not going to spark joy.

558
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,160
It's not going to increase my store of happiness.

559
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,160
If there was an immutable blockchain that this could all be on so we could see exactly what

560
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,160
happened.

561
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,160
Yeah, I was just like, you know what?

562
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,160
What I could do.

563
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:07,160
I could go to the garden and I can crack open the deck chair and get a beer and I can just

564
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,160
ignore this shit.

565
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,160
So that's what I did.

566
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,160
And it was fantastic.

567
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,160
Let me tell you about my son sat on the porch looking at houseboats for money.

568
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,160
2020.

569
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,160
I got to say that you're on the houseboat.

570
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,160
That's all I'm saying.

571
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,160
I want, I want to go on the houseboat.

572
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,160
If the houseboat isn't like super fucking gangster, though, then I will.

573
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,160
How about it?

574
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,160
Oh, you mean like, like a P Diddy houseboat?

575
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,160
Just telling that you, you couldn't find anything and he'll be like, okay, well, we got, we

576
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,160
got a couch for you and he'll be great.

577
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,160
After three people there.

578
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,160
Yeah, we'll make it work.

579
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,160
The master.

580
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,160
Exactly.

581
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,160
Just on that other thing we were talking about briefly for a second there.

582
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:49,160
So the.

583
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,160
Yeah.

584
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,160
So Max.

585
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,160
Dougie's heels in man and he fucking staunchly defended his position.

586
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,160
It was actually quite like nice to read.

587
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:07,160
It was like the oldest shit was getting said and Max just sat there and fucking fended

588
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:13,160
off argument after argument elegantly for like how was it was good.

589
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,160
I saw that when I scrolled and I was like fucking hell.

590
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:24,160
Max's once again, like the hardest working most reasonable person in the cosmos and what

591
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,160
the fuck.

592
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:31,160
Do you know what amazed me is just like his ability to just pull references from fucking

593
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:38,160
all over the place and be right every time and like not just say shit, but actually like

594
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,160
have.

595
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,160
Oh, like this thing happened at this date at this time and this is what you said or that

596
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,160
type of thing.

597
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,160
Yeah, be like, you know, someone would say something and then Max would go, well, no,

598
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,160
that's not true or accurate at all.

599
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,160
And here's a link to, you know, the actual facts.

600
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,160
Nice.

601
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,160
Where other people just sit there and go, because the whole thing started off like a fucking

602
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:07,160
someone else made a tweet that made an allegation that seemingly no one checked and then went

603
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,160
on a fucking rampage about.

604
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,160
Oh, yeah.

605
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,160
The most cause was stick.

606
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,160
The tweet that made an allegation that nobody checked.

607
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:24,160
Yeah, like, like I'm not an expert on the thing and I don't really want to bash any of the

608
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:30,160
participants in it, but that is seemingly what happened is that someone made a tweet about

609
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:36,160
something about wind and then someone else picked it up and read it and then maybe or

610
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,160
may or may not have done any research on the on the subject.

611
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:44,160
You know, I remember learning about this, the telephone game back in like second grade

612
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,160
in preschool.

613
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,160
Am I the only person that took anything away from this?

614
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,160
Like what happened here?

615
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,160
Telephone game.

616
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,160
What's this?

617
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:53,160
Sorry, Chinese whispers.

618
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,160
You know her to the telephone game?

619
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,160
Okay.

620
00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:01,160
So it's like, we're like, we're the Australian races version of this.

621
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,160
We call it the bad thing here as well.

622
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,160
Oh, I guess the enlightened children now don't, but that's what it's called.

623
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,160
The bad thing.

624
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:16,160
What the bad Chinese was the bad was called in Australia and UK.

625
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,160
It's got something to do with gold rushes or some shit.

626
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,160
I don't know.

627
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,160
It's probably are we talking about the same thing?

628
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:23,160
I think so.

629
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,160
I think so.

630
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,160
Yeah.

631
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:26,160
Yeah.

632
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,160
Telephone is Chinese whispers here.

633
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:33,160
You know, I had, I had a fucking Mexican stuff pepper for dinner last night and I was

634
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,160
going to talk about it today.

635
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,160
And I was like, can I say Mexican stuffed pepper is that racist?

636
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,160
It's not.

637
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,160
That's the national stuff like stuffed with Mexicans.

638
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,160
What do you mean?

639
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:48,160
No, it's just like a hot fucking mince in pepper is like, is this?

640
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:49,160
Oh, okay.

641
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,160
Like a, okay.

642
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,160
Like a Mexican style preparation of a dish.

643
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,160
Is that what you're saying?

644
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,160
Yeah.

645
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,160
Yeah.

646
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:57,160
Okay.

647
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,160
It's not like weird.

648
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,160
That's just, I felt like it might have been stereotyping.

649
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,160
Like, I wasn't sure if I was going to get into trouble.

650
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,160
I mean, if you Google for whether that is a real thing, then, you know,

651
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,160
I mean, you can Google Chinese whispers.

652
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,160
It doesn't make it sound any less racist.

653
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,160
It's very racist.

654
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,160
Everything is racist from our childhood.

655
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,160
I mean, seriously, I mean, I'm actually going to go Google it now.

656
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:21,160
There's a time.

657
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,160
I no doubt it has some horrible connotation.

658
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,160
Let me just mute while I go and we have a ton of shit.

659
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:29,160
Yeah, absolutely.

660
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,160
Yeah.

661
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,160
So the funky one says, who was the guest?

662
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,160
Do we want to divulge who this potential guest is?

663
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,160
Well, maybe next week, right?

664
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,160
Until we get ranked again.

665
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,160
Yeah.

666
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,160
The phrase says no.

667
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,160
And then he talks to the guy.

668
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,160
I come for this because I really was excited for this guest.

669
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,160
And because I probably can't make next week, there is, I would say a 99%

670
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,160
certainty that it will happen next week.

671
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,160
And then I'll listen back to the podcast and it will be really interesting.

672
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,160
I wish I could have disrupted the flow of that conversation.

673
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,160
Well, if you can't be here next week, we should definitely delay it then

674
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,160
because he can only be here for 45 minutes.

675
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,160
So it'd be better if we could figure out a time for all of us to be there for it.

676
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,160
Two weeks time.

677
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,160
Okay.

678
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,160
I'll message him and see if we can reschedule.

679
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,160
I'll do it right now.

680
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,160
45 minutes.

681
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,160
There may or may not be a silent letter in the name.

682
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,160
45 minutes.

683
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,160
We ignore them for 45 minutes.

684
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,160
How is that going to work?

685
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,160
I had the same concern, but then I was like, you know what, we'll make it work.

686
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,160
It's a classic.

687
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,160
I'm phrasing it wrong.

688
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,160
What the fuck and what?

689
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,160
Oh, man.

690
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,160
No.

691
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,160
We've talked about that one before.

692
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,160
The fun thing is that J has repeatedly asked to be on the show.

693
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:51,160
I think he's the only proactive person that has wanted to be on the podcast for some reason.

694
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:59,160
Apparently, Chinese whispers is technically also called a transmission chain experiment.

695
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,160
Yeah.

696
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,160
Telephone game.

697
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,160
Yeah.

698
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,160
It sounds an awful lot like a circle steak though.

699
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:10,160
Players form a line or a circle and, you know, that was the beginning.

700
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:15,160
The funny thing is that everyone purposely fucked it up.

701
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:16,160
Right.

702
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:17,160
Right.

703
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,160
You add a little bit in there.

704
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,160
Which is pretty much like Twitter, right?

705
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:21,160
Yeah.

706
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:31,160
And then it instantly becomes like Terry fucked Barry behind the fucking, you know, Mitre 10.

707
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,160
Terry and Barry can't leave him alone.

708
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,160
Yeah.

709
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,160
Does anyone watch that fucking Barry show?

710
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,160
I love that show.

711
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,160
I love where it is, man.

712
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,160
It's getting dark too.

713
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,160
Actually, I haven't started watching this last season just because I usually wait until

714
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,160
the end because I like to binge that show.

715
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:52,160
So I've been waiting until a couple of apps, but then decided to wait as well because it

716
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,160
is best binged, I feel.

717
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:55,160
It is.

718
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,160
It is like, it's one of my favorites too.

719
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,160
Which shows that?

720
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,160
Barry.

721
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,160
Barry.

722
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,160
And the hubbo.

723
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,160
I don't know it.

724
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,880
But so on the, is Chinese whispers racist or not?

725
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,160
The answer is unclear.

726
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:16,920
So apparently the reason it's called Chinese whispers is in relation to a potentially

727
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,920
apocryphal story about how messages were carried from one observation tower to the

728
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,800
next along the Great Wall of China.

729
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,880
And supposedly the message was distorted as it was carried along the wall.

730
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,380
That was obviously, well, I don't know.

731
00:33:31,380 --> 00:33:36,440
Actually, I'm not expert in the defensive strategy of the Great Wall of China, although

732
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,440
I have been there.

733
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:38,440
It's very cool.

734
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:39,440
You should go.

735
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:40,440
Read a book.

736
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,920
Well, it was never used wasn't it?

737
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,320
That's the famous thing about the Great Wall of China.

738
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,320
It was built, but it was never actually functionally used because they just went around it.

739
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:50,320
Yeah.

740
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:51,320
It's like walls.

741
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,320
Like you can, they have like weak spots somewhere, you know, like crypto.

742
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:01,120
I think it's on the side because there's on the, on the side that's closest to the coast,

743
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,120
it obviously has to end somewhere.

744
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,880
And I think there's a couple of spots, which are just essentially, if there's no standing

745
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,280
army there, you can just walk through and there you go.

746
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:09,280
It was something like that.

747
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,160
But not, not the point.

748
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,440
The point is that I don't think it quite function that way.

749
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,520
However, people have also said that the, the it's racist because at the time it came out,

750
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,840
we are talking just before the opium, you know, the, the poisoning China with lots of

751
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,800
opium from the British Empire kind of period.

752
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:35,320
And so there's a kind of potentially like, it's kind of like, oh, speaking to the Chinese

753
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,320
is incomprehensible.

754
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,480
And therefore, you know, it's like a racist thing.

755
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,760
But, but nobody's really clear.

756
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,320
It's not really documented anywhere.

757
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,520
It just kind of cropped up in usage.

758
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:51,840
Can you just like add some more info about that poisoning with opium business?

759
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:52,840
Wait, what?

760
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,000
You don't know about like the opium wars and stuff?

761
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,800
Yeah, even about the opium wars, man.

762
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:57,800
I know.

763
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:05,040
It's, I used to have this game on my fucking like Nintendo or my, my, my, my Windows 95

764
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,960
PC called fucking drug wars.

765
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,520
Opium wars related to Nintendo 64.

766
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,840
You didn't play that?

767
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,480
Frey, I think you need to get this since it's kind of up your alley.

768
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,120
Well, I mean, I'm, I guess I'm kind of, I'm kind of, so well, yeah.

769
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:28,760
So like the, the opium wars made a lot of opium in, in, you know, in India, Afghanistan,

770
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:37,040
Afghanistan, the four fathers, the British, who were obviously also, you know, pillaging

771
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,040
that country.

772
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,120
Getting a whole lot of opium.

773
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,120
Happy days.

774
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:47,280
I'm oversimplifying, but it's okay because, you know, they occupied a country for 200

775
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,280
years.

776
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:49,280
So fuck it.

777
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,640
Anyway, yeah, lots of opium.

778
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,480
Happy days need a big market to sell this to.

779
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,280
Hey, China's big market.

780
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,080
Lots of people live there.

781
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,080
Take it there.

782
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,000
The, let me get this right.

783
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,800
It would be the tail end of the Qing dynasty.

784
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:03,800
Qing dynasty?

785
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:04,800
I think that's correct.

786
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:05,800
Yeah.

787
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,520
We're not super jazzed about the introduction of shit loads of opium.

788
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:11,520
Not a fan.

789
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:12,520
Not, not a fan.

790
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:13,520
Not a big fan.

791
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:19,680
We're sort of like, hey, we're going to have to strongly object to your massive importation

792
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,640
of highly addictive opiates.

793
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:29,560
So the British, again, with TRDR, they sort of, they had a little disagreement whereby

794
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:37,520
they sailed a ironclad warship into the middle of the Chinese blue water navy and the sun

795
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:38,520
kit.

796
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,680
So amongst other atrocities.

797
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,840
So you know, there was a little bit of that.

798
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,760
So this is what's called gumboat diplomacy was where somebody disagrees with you and

799
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,040
you say, well, I'm massively militarily superior to you.

800
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:56,640
So I'm going to ignore all of your internal policy problems that are caused by my selfishness

801
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:02,840
and I'm going to instead shoot all of your people and continue selling them opium until

802
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,000
I get more rich.

803
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,880
In fact, there is no end state because I actually just want to keep getting richer.

804
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,600
So I'm just going to keep doing that until I no longer can.

805
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,600
So that's my potter summary of that period of history.

806
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,960
And at the end, of course, the British go, let's have Hong Kong as well.

807
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,200
Why not 100 year lease for a quid?

808
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,600
Though they didn't think that they typically didn't think that through either because eventually

809
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,520
when they had to give it back, they were giving it back to a newly resurgent nationalist,

810
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,200
well, communist, but communist nationalist in the sense of they have a strong national

811
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:40,840
identity and a nationalist fervour, although being a communist state, China.

812
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,840
But obviously by that point, Hong Kong culturally had diverged very, very heavily from mainland

813
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,200
China in addition to the fact that it's largely Cantonese speaking as opposed to Mandarin

814
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,600
speaking.

815
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,720
And so basically the British just left Hong Kong in a situation where a lot of people

816
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:56,880
from Hong Kong want to be independent.

817
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:03,160
And I feel like if I don't put a pin in it, this is going to continue indefinitely.

818
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,040
It's just like a list of your fucker.

819
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,880
It's actually a pretty good explanation, though.

820
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,360
And there's a lot of really cool side effects of it.

821
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,720
Like because Hong Kong.

822
00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:13,240
Running onto other subjects now.

823
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:15,760
Well, it's interesting history.

824
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,440
It's really interesting history.

825
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,440
Yeah.

826
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,360
I mean, I've got a question about these 100 year leases.

827
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,160
Like that's not a lot of forethought.

828
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,520
Why not a thousand years or 10,000 years?

829
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,080
Well, so part of it was like, Hong Kong at the time was something like 70% of China's

830
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,120
entire GDP.

831
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:39,200
And so there was a little bit of negotiation there of like, well, 100 years is like reasonable,

832
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,320
but like further than that, then there's more pushback.

833
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,320
So yeah.

834
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:49,040
Why would you sell something that was 70% of your GDP for like a handbag of fucking,

835
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,120
you know, I think that was one of the like one of the things end of the war, right?

836
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,560
Like it was part of the like,

837
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,000
I think it was, it wasn't, it wasn't at the point where the, because there's the whole

838
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,000
thing.

839
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,000
It's like an end to see.

840
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,800
It's like an end to a spoil of war type thing.

841
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:05,800
Yeah.

842
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:06,960
And then there's like this whole sport of war thing.

843
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,480
And then that undermines the final authority of the end of that dynasty.

844
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,120
And then because then that's shortly after, so this is bear in mind.

845
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,640
I studied this over 14 years ago.

846
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:19,760
So it's a bit rusty.

847
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:25,200
But then I think that's the point at which it's the succession of sorry, the loss of

848
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,400
Hong Kong that I think leads in the first instance, the beginning of the awakening of

849
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:36,720
actual Chinese nationalism outside of the framework of a imperial dynasty.

850
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:41,600
Because I think that's like, I think Sun Yat-sen is literally like a handful of years, like

851
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:48,600
maybe less than 10 years after the taking of the lease of Hong Kong or whatever.

852
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:53,040
I think it's like 1905 when Sun Yat-sen published his first stuff, right?

853
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,160
Something, it's something like that from my memory.

854
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:56,160
I think 1905 is too early.

855
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:00,040
I think he's going to chat, he's read more recently or more thoroughly on this and can

856
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,040
correct the numbers, you know, whatever.

857
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,840
So apologies to any scholars of Chinese history or Chinese people listening to the podcast

858
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,120
if I've got some of those facts wrong.

859
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:13,120
It's been a little while.

860
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,800
They stopped listening after Chinese whispers.

861
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:16,800
Yeah, that was.

862
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,040
They're not here anymore.

863
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,040
Yeah.

864
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,040
Sorry about that as well.

865
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,040
Sorry about that.

866
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,040
Oh, here we go.

867
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,040
The opium wars.

868
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,040
Yeah, I mean, there's.

869
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:31,360
I'm going to go read the abstract of this paper on the opium wars and talk to us if

870
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:32,640
I'm in authority on it now.

871
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:33,640
I'll be back in 20 minutes.

872
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,320
Yeah, I mean, like the abstract is pretty short.

873
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:42,280
It's like three lines and it ends in British forces shut down Chinese ports in Hong Kong

874
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,600
and was handed over to them.

875
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:49,000
Yeah, the Japanese saw then we're like, yeah, we don't want any of that.

876
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:54,200
And so then they had basically shut off policies for a long time, except I think to the Dutch.

877
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:55,200
They think it was the Dutch.

878
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,920
They were like, yeah, the Dutch can come in, but everyone else now you can shut off.

879
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:58,920
Yeah.

880
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:05,960
So that was that was another example of gunboat diplomacy because the Dutch were the only

881
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,720
ones who are allowed to trade with mainland Japan and they did it from this tiny little

882
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:11,440
island like a little concession.

883
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,120
Incidentally, there's a really good, so I did also did this in history because I'm a

884
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:20,720
massive nerd, but there's also a really good book by David Mitchell who wrote Cloud Atlas,

885
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:24,720
Number Nine Dream and Black Swan Green, a bunch of really good books.

886
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:30,360
He wrote a novel about a Dutch trader in this period called The Thousand Automs of Jacob

887
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:31,360
DeZoet.

888
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:32,560
And it's really, really good.

889
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,320
It doesn't sound like it should be good.

890
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:35,320
It is good.

891
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:40,440
I would that book is like a nine, nine and a half out of 10 as a novel that's very good.

892
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:41,440
Okay.

893
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:42,440
What's it called?

894
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,240
Now, nine and a half out of 10 is a pretty strong review.

895
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:48,720
I mean, maybe nine, maybe nine because there are better David Mitchell books, but it is

896
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:49,720
very little.

897
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:50,720
Yeah.

898
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:51,720
Backpedal.

899
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:55,280
I'll backpedal it to it to a strong eight to light nine.

900
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,280
What's the name of the?

901
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,280
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

902
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,280
He's backpedaled again.

903
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,280
Shoot me.

904
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,280
It's a little light.

905
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,280
I mean, Thousand Automs of Jacob DeZoet.

906
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,280
Absolutely.

907
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,800
I think in the show notes, Schultz's book.

908
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,280
So what happened was then the Americans wanted access to trade.

909
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:18,280
And so that happened in the mid, I think it was the mid, mid 19th century with the black

910
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:19,280
ships, right?

911
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:25,440
Which was when Commodore Perry sailed a small flotilla of American gunboats to open up Japanese

912
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:26,440
trade.

913
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,920
And so then America got access to Japanese trade.

914
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:37,080
And then this was the period of time where then the Iwakara mission went to Europe.

915
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,240
And I think 1871.

916
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:44,080
So the end of the Tokugawa shogunate, I think which was partly, so that's the reaccession

917
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:51,480
of the emperor and the ending of the period of shogunate war.

918
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:57,360
And I think from memory, what happened there was essentially the, I think that the gunboats

919
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,440
might have also been a factor in the end of that period.

920
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,560
Although I think that's the one which ends with the battle of Sekigahara.

921
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,960
But that is way too much detail, that's far too long in the past, I can't fully remember.

922
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,800
But the main detail to take away is that the Iwakara mission goes to Europe about 1871

923
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,080
from memory and goes to industrializing Germany, which obviously we're talking about the period

924
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:21,200
here where German unification and that kind of thing is starting to happen.

925
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,240
Wars of France is starting to become the industrial center of Europe.

926
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:28,840
They go to Britain, like industrial Manchester, industrial Glasgow.

927
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,960
There's actually a sign somewhere in town in Greater Manchester.

928
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:41,360
So not a huge fuck, the nearest city to where I live and obviously where we have offices.

929
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:47,280
There's a sign saying, this is where Japanese trade delegates were welcomed.

930
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,800
And they basically went around Europe looking at industrialized manufacturing to try and

931
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:56,640
work out how Japan could industrialize so that it wouldn't be humiliated again.

932
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:05,120
And then that then culminated in a rapid period of industrialization and planning that ultimately

933
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:12,400
resulted in when the Russo-Japanese war happened, which I'm going to say 1905 could be wrong,

934
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,360
something like 1903, 1905, the Russians were beaten by the Japanese.

935
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:23,200
And it was a huge, huge shock for the Western powers because they just hadn't had this,

936
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:28,280
the idea that all of the racism, all of the kind of chauvinism, all that sort of stuff,

937
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,480
they just hadn't seen that one coming.

938
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,320
And that's really like the kind of, it's the beginning of the shift to power in the Pacific

939
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,800
towards an industrial Japan.

940
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,200
And obviously in that whole period, Japan is taking Taiwan career.

941
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,680
All this was places like it, increasingly expansionist kind of foreign policy as well.

942
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,760
So I mean, there's just, there is so much interesting about that period of history.

943
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:58,960
From the point of view of Japanese and Chinese history and the nationalist movement in China,

944
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,320
obviously is super interesting.

945
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,640
And all of the crazy shit that happened around the Boxer Rebellion and everything, just, man,

946
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,120
the Western powers were fucking arseholes, really.

947
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,120
That's the conclusion of that one.

948
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:16,200
That's why I also know those weird facts about like the Gungho and the First Marine Corps

949
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,600
and stuff, because they were obviously just casually intervening in China in the interwar

950
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:21,760
period and stuff.

951
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:27,240
So that's like the, that's why all modern, most Western militaries are organized around

952
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:32,840
the Chinese guerrilla, as in the Chinese Communist guerrillas, the Maoist guerrillas, three,

953
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,240
three person units.

954
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:36,240
Sorry.

955
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:42,320
I'm just going to chuff off and make a coffee, but call out if we get back into like any cosmos

956
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:43,320
shit.

957
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,320
This is the cosmos.

958
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,880
This is like setting the stage for when computers could be made.

959
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:50,880
That's right.

960
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,400
Fast forward this whole storyline.

961
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,360
You get the Jacob shitting on Wendau.

962
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,680
So it's like a butterfly and, you know, that whole thing.

963
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:05,000
You fast forward a hundred years and in Hong Kong, Don Kryptonium has sat in his laptop

964
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,840
and he is typing a tweet.

965
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:08,680
All these things are all, that's right.

966
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:09,680
It's all converging.

967
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:16,160
It says all software on Juno must be open source to get funded, send tweet.

968
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:20,680
And then he posted on chain and that's prop whatever it was, 59.

969
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:21,680
Was it 59?

970
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,960
If it's prop 59, then my memory is fucking ace because better than I can remember.

971
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:26,960
That's sad if it is.

972
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,880
That will be, I will verify.

973
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,400
That would be very deeply sad.

974
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,280
Would that if I could, you want it to be 59?

975
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:34,280
I'll tell you if it is or not.

976
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,280
I don't know if you really want it to be 59.

977
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:37,280
Right now.

978
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,280
A good idea.

979
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:39,280
Not sure.

980
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:40,280
Holy shit.

981
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:41,280
It's 59.

982
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:42,280
Yeah.

983
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,720
Find the open source number 59.

984
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:46,720
You called it.

985
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:47,720
Fucking live.

986
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:48,720
Don't know.

987
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:51,520
Those brain cells should be re diverted to something more valuable than that piece of

988
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,720
information that you're holding on to.

989
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:59,200
But the main thing to take away from this is that indirectly the opium wars created a

990
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:07,680
discourse of strife, of hostility, of negativity and of course imperialist overarching violence

991
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,640
that ultimately would result in prop 59.

992
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,400
I'm going to make that a sound clip.

993
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:13,960
The ebb and flow of history, baby.

994
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:14,960
That's how it works.

995
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:15,960
It's cause and effect.

996
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:16,960
That's all we did.

997
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:17,960
It's cause and effect.

998
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:22,880
We just flappered the breeze to the tune of these great forces beyond our understanding,

999
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:23,880
you see.

1000
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:24,880
But that's how it works.

1001
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:25,880
All butterfly wings, man.

1002
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:26,880
It's just a butterfly.

1003
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:27,880
It is.

1004
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:32,040
I do think about the butterfly flapping its wings for the last two years and going.

1005
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,040
Uh-huh.

1006
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:34,040
That's exactly what it is.

1007
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,640
Next thing you know, prop 59 and here we are.

1008
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:37,640
Yeah.

1009
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:43,080
I was reading some stuff about systemic stability the other day and I was like, no such thing,

1010
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:44,080
baby.

1011
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,960
So, incidentally, that was the abstract to the paper as well.

1012
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,520
I said, no such thing, baby.

1013
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:53,920
And then it had, you know, 65 pages justifying that with maths, which I didn't understand

1014
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,040
because I don't understand maths.

1015
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,200
What we should do is we should cover all the Cosmos stuff all knows me in a coffee, then

1016
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,880
come back and talk about something else.

1017
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,360
What other Cosmos stuff was that?

1018
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:03,360
I think local berry.

1019
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:04,360
Yeah.

1020
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,240
We can talk about that now, right?

1021
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:07,240
Or Huckleberry.

1022
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:08,240
Yeah.

1023
00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:10,240
We accidentally disclosed that the other week on the podcast.

1024
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:15,520
I don't know what the hell it was, so it turned out to be, is it more of an art piece?

1025
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,920
It was a more of a real-ear thing or maybe you can break it down?

1026
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,080
Uh, Shulsi, do you want to?

1027
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,320
No, you go ahead.

1028
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,440
I know the basics of it, but I'm sure you are in deeper conversations about what it

1029
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,440
actually pertains to and what it affects.

1030
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,440
I know of it change intentionally.

1031
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:30,440
Yeah.

1032
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,480
It's about figure on the account, isn't it?

1033
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,760
So the reason that nobody was freaking out is because it doesn't really affect many accounts

1034
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,920
because almost nobody's using figure on to the moment.

1035
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,120
For people who don't know, can you explain what a figure on it is?

1036
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:47,120
Shulsi.

1037
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:48,120
Yeah.

1038
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:52,760
So a figure on it is like, so for relaying, I relay, oh, you know, I'll look that up right

1039
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:53,760
now.

1040
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,760
I think we just requested for relays.

1041
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,840
Very relevant for relays.

1042
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,800
So I think like lavender.

1043
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,240
So we are decisively number one in terms of relay count.

1044
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:09,840
We have relayed 350,000 transactions this month and the next is 270,000 transactions.

1045
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,120
So almost 100,000 more transactions per month than average person.

1046
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,880
Imagine funding that every single transaction manually for those wallets.

1047
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,480
We're burning through probably more than a thousand Osmo month.

1048
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:27,360
If with a fee grant, you can just say, Hey, I've got this one core wallet, feed everything

1049
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:28,720
and it'll just pay it all for you.

1050
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:33,400
That way you don't need to feed individual wallets to actually feed things.

1051
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:34,920
It pays transactions for you.

1052
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:40,280
So it's basically allowing you to associate fees to a transaction to like maybe a community

1053
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,360
fund or something else that's coming out of a central pool.

1054
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,920
So you're not doing transactions and dealing with delegations and all that shit.

1055
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:46,920
Yeah, exactly.

1056
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,920
So are you back?

1057
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:49,920
Oh, welcome.

1058
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:50,920
Exactly right.

1059
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:55,040
So like if you have off Z, if you have relaying, if you have like you want to claim your delegations,

1060
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,520
you can have all these different wallets that do different things, but you can have

1061
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:58,520
them all.

1062
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,560
All those fees can come from one central wallets so that only it has to be worried about for

1063
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,840
whether you actually to fill anything up or not.

1064
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,080
So yeah, the only person that I'm are the only validator team that I'm aware of that

1065
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,120
actually uses it like wildly extensively is Crow's Nest.

1066
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,000
They use it for everything and it's really impressive to see what they do.

1067
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:18,000
But yeah, that's a fee grant.

1068
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,280
Does that mean they set up their own central wallet and then everything fee grants off

1069
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,480
that wallet or is it still back to the individual teams?

1070
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,840
They have their own singular wallet that feeds everything.

1071
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,080
So they have a fee wallet and then they just fund that basically.

1072
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:32,080
Correct.

1073
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,760
Which the implication there is that they have all sorts of like built in scripts and stuff

1074
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,240
to do things for them.

1075
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:39,240
Really cool stuff.

1076
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:40,240
Yeah.

1077
00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:41,240
Okay.

1078
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:42,240
So this and this happened with the secret hole.

1079
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:43,240
Why was secret involved?

1080
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:44,760
It just happened to be found during secret.

1081
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:45,760
Yeah.

1082
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,120
So the shade protocol, they were building a fee grant because I talked with the team quite

1083
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,920
a bit about like relaying it with the difficulties of it, like doing costs.

1084
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,920
And so they started doing a fee grant module like middleware, I believe.

1085
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,920
I'm not quite sure the exact story.

1086
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:05,040
But they are they're an entrance relaying because secret succeeds through relaying or

1087
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,840
well, the cosmos does really.

1088
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:15,120
And they found a bug and they fixed the bug and then a soft submitted a PR to the cosmos

1089
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,120
hub with with the fix, the security fix.

1090
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,320
But it's like it's considered a fairly major for fee grant.

1091
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:33,000
I think that something like $50,000 or $100,000 USD was siphoned from a team through the bug

1092
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,160
once it was found and the PR submitted for it.

1093
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:42,200
But the interesting thing is like, are you saying that the siphoning was resultant from

1094
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,520
the submission of the PR, like before they could patch it?

1095
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:47,520
Because yeah.

1096
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,960
So the problem was there was no.

1097
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,240
It's disclosed in private.

1098
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:54,560
Yes, it should have been disclosed in private.

1099
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,080
Another win for open source.

1100
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:57,080
Yeah.

1101
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:58,080
Yeah.

1102
00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,080
Yeah.

1103
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,160
So it should have been in private.

1104
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,360
It's actually more secure.

1105
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:04,360
So.

1106
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:05,360
Thank you.

1107
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,600
Shout out to the shade team though.

1108
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,480
I look at their product the other day.

1109
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:12,480
It's pretty polished.

1110
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:13,480
I like it.

1111
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:14,480
Yeah.

1112
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:15,480
The shade team absolutely kills it.

1113
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,560
They do really good stuff and they really care about their product and their users and

1114
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,800
they're one of the stronger teams in the cosmos.

1115
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:28,840
I'm willing to go on, I don't know, contracts saying that, whatever.

1116
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:29,840
You are.

1117
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:30,840
That's an official YOP.

1118
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:31,840
That's what that is.

1119
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:32,840
That's an official statement.

1120
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:33,840
It's a fucking YOP right there.

1121
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:34,840
You're going to get a $20 contract?

1122
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:35,840
Sorry.

1123
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:36,840
I couldn't think of the word.

1124
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:37,840
On record?

1125
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:38,840
Thank you.

1126
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:39,840
Record.

1127
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:40,840
That's the one.

1128
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:41,840
I'm spacing.

1129
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:42,840
Listen.

1130
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:43,840
Listen.

1131
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:44,840
On YOP.

1132
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:45,840
On YOP.

1133
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:46,840
Yeah.

1134
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:52,560
I think they put that in or a soft credit that, and somebody actually siphoned some funds

1135
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,840
while they were watching those types of disclosures.

1136
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:55,840
Yeah.

1137
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:56,840
That's right.

1138
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:57,840
Yeah.

1139
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,080
So somebody had a $100,000 and a fee contract?

1140
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,080
Is that what it was?

1141
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,120
Or maybe it was pointed towards a community fund or something?

1142
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,440
How would that happen?

1143
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:05,440
Yeah.

1144
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:06,440
I don't know how it happened.

1145
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:07,680
I don't know who to pretend to.

1146
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:09,480
It also could just be hearsay.

1147
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,200
I heard that that's true from someone, but I don't actually know.

1148
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,280
Now, the interesting thing about it is that it was very specific.

1149
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,760
Community validators could execute it or could actually take advantage of it.

1150
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:22,720
And they had to be a relayer.

1151
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:24,200
And there was something specific.

1152
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:32,560
You had to have failed a transaction acknowledgement and then sent a type of return acknowledgement

1153
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,200
that was custom modified.

1154
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:38,240
So you had to say you still want to actually pay it with the fee grant, even though it

1155
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:39,240
didn't come through.

1156
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:41,320
It was very specific to actually achieve it.

1157
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,160
That's why a lot of chains were like, do I need to fix that instead of them?

1158
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:46,160
Right.

1159
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,880
So, but all the chains did push updates, but that was really, but you said it was really,

1160
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,360
was that a chain chain?

1161
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,440
It was obviously for the chain, but it was, I assume like the relay and the relay software

1162
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,160
was also modified as well.

1163
00:53:58,160 --> 00:53:59,160
Correct.

1164
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:00,160
Yeah.

1165
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:01,520
Hermes and relay were both also fixed for it.

1166
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:06,520
So in theory, with those two being fixed, it shouldn't really be an issue anymore,

1167
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,520
but it's better to just fix it.

1168
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,040
But I guess you could run old versions of those software, but you would have to be a

1169
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,040
relayer to do that, right?

1170
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,280
So that seems like it's kind of kind of intuitive to that.

1171
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:16,280
Right.

1172
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,000
That's why it's such a specific thing.

1173
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,240
And not all chains have updated.

1174
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:23,200
We have quite a few in our list that just didn't because they don't use fee grant.

1175
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,880
So why be concerned about it for right now until, and if you have an upgrade scheduled

1176
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,800
anyway, just roll it in with that.

1177
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,960
So Ben asked, could a fee grant be implemented for normal users, and let me know if they

1178
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:33,920
need for native tokens on every chain?

1179
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,280
Yes, absolutely.

1180
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,760
In fact, I have implemented that on secret.

1181
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:43,600
When I, one of the first things I did in the cosmos was implement a fee grant bot, so to

1182
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:49,000
speak for whenever people needed to do a swap on like secret swap, secret swap, they

1183
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,560
need a little bit of dust, right?

1184
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:51,560
To do that.

1185
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:52,560
Fucking hassle.

1186
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:53,560
It was.

1187
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:54,560
Yeah.

1188
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,480
And then you could just use that and it would do it for you.

1189
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,000
But that no longer exists.

1190
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,680
I mean, another way of using, you've not owned your different token, every chain would be

1191
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:05,760
to just use USDC.

1192
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,240
That's what Ellis is doing.

1193
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:11,080
They are a swap that's going to be completely paired with USDC and everything's going to

1194
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,080
USDC.

1195
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,960
I feel like that would 100% though kill the tokenomics of every chain.

1196
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,840
Well, because they might have a natural token that actually has value.

1197
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,800
They can't manipulate like, you know, not that it's a security or anything, not that

1198
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,560
something's open for manipulation.

1199
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:37,440
So in other cosmos news, so Injective is doing a upgrade tonight, I think, or like in about

1200
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:38,440
12 hours.

1201
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:43,960
I don't know that for me, eight o'clock, but I've noticed that there are quite a few validators

1202
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:52,160
with like the low, low commission on there, like 0%, etc.

1203
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:53,160
2%.

1204
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:59,800
And I think that this upgrade might be like forcing everyone up to 5%, which might be interesting.

1205
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,200
Well, so here's the funny thing about that.

1206
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:08,640
The reason why they're having to do that is because Injective has a like a custom module

1207
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:14,640
where you can only increase your commission by increments of 2%, I want to say.

1208
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,640
And most people will say 1%.

1209
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:22,200
So if you can't upgrade by more than 1%, then you're just not gonna.

1210
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,200
So like, Block you.

1211
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:29,360
Yeah, so you're like literally can't get there because it's like, you can't go like the end

1212
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:34,320
block or we'll say, fuck you, it's not 5%, you can't change it.

1213
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:35,320
Exactly right.

1214
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:39,960
So Block, Block, Block, engine or stakes, auto-stake, they're at 0% at the top and they can't get

1215
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,560
any commission because they only have 1% increments.

1216
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,320
They're just like, well, I guess I'm fine.

1217
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,160
I thought that happened a different chain too.

1218
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,440
It wasn't Juno, but I thought somebody else where they made that change, they ended up

1219
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:54,360
writing a conversion that automatically moved those validators to five or something like

1220
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:55,360
that.

1221
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:56,360
Do you guys remember that?

1222
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,480
Yeah, it's an extra wallet.

1223
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,000
You can do it in an upgrade handler.

1224
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,000
They move everyone up.

1225
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,960
So why wouldn't Injective do that where they forced everybody up and like just bypass that?

1226
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,480
That's what they're doing this time.

1227
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,480
I guess it was just an oversight previously.

1228
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:10,480
Oh, okay.

1229
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:11,480
All right.

1230
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:12,480
So basically, so right now they're stuck.

1231
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:13,960
They're at 0% and they can't change it.

1232
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:14,960
Yeah.

1233
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:16,480
So to clarify, it wasn't a minimum 2%.

1234
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,040
It was that the move max was 2%.

1235
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,040
And they can, yeah, okay.

1236
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,880
But the move was still under the minimum, so therefore they couldn't move, right?

1237
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:24,880
I think that was the same thing.

1238
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:25,880
Yeah, I think that was true.

1239
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:26,880
I think that's right.

1240
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,760
I remember that that was like early on that they made that change and they had to write

1241
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,320
an upgrade handler to force everybody to five basically is what happened.

1242
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,400
Yeah, like stuck on zero.

1243
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:40,080
But I mean, it's kind of comeuppance in it's like, well, you're like, you're, you're

1244
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:44,000
you're getting all these extra delegations, but you can't monetize it.

1245
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,000
So fuck you.

1246
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,000
Yeah.

1247
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,200
Well, I think we just had another, another thing came up this week with, with the 0%.

1248
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:54,520
There was another chain that's getting ready to launch here with the say that sort of sort

1249
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:59,160
of involved in that also out of nowhere had a proposal to be able to be able to allow

1250
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,160
0% or to change the minimum from 5% to 0%.

1251
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,560
And that was, they heard a kind of an earful from a bunch of validators on that.

1252
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,080
I definitely threw down for that.

1253
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:09,080
I'll throw it down for that.

1254
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:10,080
That's the topic.

1255
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:11,960
I'll throw it down for any day of the week.

1256
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:12,960
Yeah.

1257
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,200
I think some teams just don't understand that.

1258
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:15,800
Like, it was a community pro.

1259
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,600
What was it like a prop from Validate?

1260
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:22,200
It's been like, why can't we go zero and ride that rocket all the way?

1261
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,080
Well, I think like, who proposed it?

1262
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:31,280
Was it was that someone might have like suggested it from the, from one of the teams?

1263
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:32,280
Yeah.

1264
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,960
So I think it's a validator suggested to the say team and the say team put it forward.

1265
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:36,960
Right.

1266
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:37,960
I don't think so.

1267
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,880
I think it was the community that put it forward and then the say team actually put

1268
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:42,880
it forward.

1269
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:43,880
Yeah.

1270
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,480
So, so I think it was during a community call, someone in the community was like, Hey,

1271
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:47,480
what can't we have zero?

1272
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:49,280
Why aren't there any zero percent validators?

1273
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,160
Like for testnet, they should be different from mainnet.

1274
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:53,160
Right.

1275
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,880
And so the say team was like, okay, well, yeah, that makes sense.

1276
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,960
And then, and then a couple of us got angry.

1277
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:58,960
Let's table that.

1278
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,960
Let's put that on the side there.

1279
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,160
I mean, yeah, testnet they say.

1280
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,960
No, no, no, no, no, no, this is four.

1281
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:11,800
But it doesn't make sense to have like zero percent validators.

1282
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,880
It's just like, just to fuck it.

1283
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:15,520
Why make people work for free?

1284
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,080
Like, it's just, it's a circle in the drain to zero.

1285
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:22,120
Well, especially for say, say it is a really expensive change of road.

1286
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:23,760
To run more so than.

1287
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,280
Yeah, probably the most expensive change to run that I'm making about it.

1288
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:28,280
In the cosmos.

1289
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:29,480
I would think so.

1290
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:34,640
I think maybe aside from a Solana, I think other than Solana, it's the most expensive

1291
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,640
nonproof of work chain to run that I've seen.

1292
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:43,440
So like if people are running zero percent, then it's just like they're cutting corners.

1293
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:44,840
They're not, they're not.

1294
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:45,840
No.

1295
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:46,840
Yeah.

1296
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:47,840
I mean, really.

1297
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:56,880
It's interesting though that for the foundation, they, they moved the benchmark for signing

1298
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:57,880
down to 65.

1299
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,080
Was it 60 or 65 percent?

1300
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,080
66, I think.

1301
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:03,080
66 percent.

1302
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:04,080
Yeah.

1303
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:05,080
Well, yeah.

1304
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,240
Anything below that, then it's like it's the box not getting assigned.

1305
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:08,240
Yeah.

1306
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,960
So they're not pushing like a hundred, you know, like 90, not a percent though.

1307
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:17,800
Like they're saying, yeah, we know that it's like difficult on hardware to, to validate

1308
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:18,800
and.

1309
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,960
But that just means there are going to be a bunch of validates.

1310
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:22,520
Is it never signed, right?

1311
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,240
No, I think there's no, there's a sign.

1312
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,800
Just the miss is pretty high just because especially it moves so quick.

1313
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:33,760
And I think tendermint really even that team has done a pretty amazing job with just the

1314
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:38,920
core underlying protocol here because this protocol is never built for 300 millisecond,

1315
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:40,720
400 millisecond block times.

1316
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:46,040
And there's a shitload that they've done to be able to engineer through this problem.

1317
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:50,560
But even with that, my fucking iterations like trying to, trying to get it right.

1318
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:51,560
Yeah.

1319
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,400
And like, and they've solved problem after problem, right?

1320
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,520
And I think they've done a pretty excellent job of, of kind of approaching problem after

1321
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:58,520
problem.

1322
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:04,200
And anyway, but even with that, even there's, there's also just kind of the, the size of

1323
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:08,840
the earth issue and the size of the earth issue is that in this protocol, at least when

1324
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:13,960
you don't have overlapping blocks or something like you have with, with Aptos and other types

1325
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,920
of things where you have some sort of sharding of signatures and those types of things.

1326
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:21,080
But when you don't have that, I think it's really difficult to be able to have a very

1327
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:24,200
distributed set of validators in the structure.

1328
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,120
And you really couldn't have, I don't think you could have 100 validators on sale.

1329
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:30,520
Like I think, I think you're launching with 35 or something and that might be it.

1330
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:35,600
That might be it for, for good because, and even they're trying to just kind of do some

1331
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:38,800
global distribution because right now everything's pretty much in Western Europe.

1332
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,840
And if you're in Asia or in your, or in the US or something, I think you're kind of screwed.

1333
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,080
Like you just can't sign for that stuff.

1334
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:49,560
That was because of the way, because of the way tendermint works versus the way that

1335
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,560
hot stuff.

1336
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:52,560
Yeah.

1337
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:53,560
Hot stuff works.

1338
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:58,600
Like my, because, because you have the leader election, like I said, my naive understanding

1339
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,960
is because you have the leader elections, you always have the possibility that you're

1340
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,760
a jet, essentially like the leader will be adjacent to you geographically.

1341
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:07,760
Yes.

1342
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:15,400
And I think this is why the Aptos team was so keen to have at least a reasonable spread

1343
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:20,640
of geographical nodes because you want, if you have any of them distributed, you need

1344
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:25,320
to have a significant enough percentage of them so that if the leader lands in an area

1345
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:31,880
where, where it's, you know, way out of say Western Europe or US East One, like which

1346
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:38,240
are the two hotspots for nodes, that there will be peers nearby geographically because

1347
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,080
of the, you know, the ping rates and timeouts and all that stuff.

1348
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:48,160
And it's like even more important for tendermint where the, the P2P, like the polka and everything

1349
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,760
has to happen in a really specific way.

1350
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:55,000
But like it sounds like they've got around that by just reducing threshold way down.

1351
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:56,000
Yeah.

1352
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,000
Like I agree.

1353
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,000
Like it.

1354
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:04,440
But I guess the, we'll kind of see how that, but to the point is like, like it's incredibly

1355
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:08,240
expensive to run that because even though in there, they're pushing a decent amount of

1356
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:14,720
transactions per block, I think, I think they've been averaging 20 or 30 or 50 or something

1357
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:15,720
like that, right?

1358
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:20,480
Like transactions a block, like during testnet, we've been kind of pushing that or more like

1359
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,920
consistently and wherever that's coming from.

1360
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:28,160
And then just the hardware to require to do that is pretty significant.

1361
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:32,840
Like like Schultz said, like out of a salata like, but there's a lot of waste, I think

1362
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,560
that's going along with that, even as much of the work as a team is done within that.

1363
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:41,120
So how, how many validators is say launching with?

1364
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:42,120
35, I think.

1365
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:43,120
I think that's right.

1366
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:44,120
Yeah.

1367
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:45,120
Yeah.

1368
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:46,120
35.

1369
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:49,880
And there are, I mean, that, that would be an unpopular position to put yourself in if

1370
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:51,280
there's any 35 validators.

1371
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,720
You're the 80 zero commission and you got like up the chart.

1372
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:55,720
Yeah.

1373
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:56,720
Yeah.

1374
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:01,960
But I think if I remember, it's not a, I don't even know if how inflation works within

1375
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,560
say, or if it's going to be more of more fee based type structures, right?

1376
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:11,000
I think kind of following along with the Kajira type of idea where since it, since it's, there's

1377
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:15,280
a significant amount of transactions expected, it might be more from a transaction perspective.

1378
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:20,760
So from a, I do believe that the inflation is going to be quite low.

1379
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,480
That's not a pump and a McChain by any means.

1380
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:24,480
Yeah.

1381
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:25,480
Yeah.

1382
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:29,760
But they did like a, and I think it is going to be like pretty fee based because they were

1383
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:36,280
doing throughput tests like in the early days of the Atlantic to the Atlantic to test

1384
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,560
net, which resulted in a lot of fee commission.

1385
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:41,880
I'm going to say.

1386
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:47,920
So I'm pretty sure then that that is like part of the model to, to have rewards through

1387
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:50,200
fees and throughput.

1388
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:54,280
And I think today they just, they just up the gas by like 350 times, right?

1389
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:55,280
Something like that.

1390
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:56,280
It's way higher.

1391
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:57,280
Yeah.

1392
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:58,280
Yeah.

1393
01:04:58,280 --> 01:04:59,280
It was like 400x on the gas.

1394
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:00,800
So I appreciate that they're, sorry, go ahead.

1395
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:02,840
No, I think, I think we're going to say the same thing.

1396
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,680
It was like a 400x jump in the gas.

1397
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,880
So I think I heard there was a comment like expectations that it should cost a few cents

1398
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:10,040
to run a transaction.

1399
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:11,480
Like it should not be free.

1400
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,640
Like it should be some portion of a dollar that actually comes into a transaction.

1401
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,360
So as transactions build, there's actually a repeating type of structure here.

1402
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,960
And I think I know there's a lot of, there's a lot of benefits around this idea of like

1403
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,600
a zero cost gas structure within the cosmos.

1404
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:31,360
There's also, there's a big, there's a gradient between it being nothing and also $7 per transaction

1405
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,840
like in, you know, in Ethereum.

1406
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:35,080
And zero is not great.

1407
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:39,000
Like there's some benefit of having 10 cents towards a transaction.

1408
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:44,680
Well, the core belief for all these chains is that you bootstrap them with inflation

1409
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,920
and then fucking graduate to like feed.

1410
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:48,920
Sure.

1411
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:53,200
But like at the same time, a lot of them are like, well, let's fucking have no fees.

1412
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:54,200
Well, they're making sense.

1413
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,040
You want to get people used to fees.

1414
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,880
But you know, like, I totally agree.

1415
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,120
Like a few cents, a transaction is perfectly fucking reasonable.

1416
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:04,480
There's no reason, no reason it has to be zero.

1417
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:08,040
And if we're not like making money from the fees, then why the fuck are we all here?

1418
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,320
Like, you know, you have to pay for the pay for service.

1419
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,600
Like it's not, it's not much.

1420
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,040
Yeah, inflation is not the way to do it.

1421
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:18,400
It just fucking robs people.

1422
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:23,320
I really appreciate that they're willing to do it chain-wide.

1423
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:24,680
That's not really adopted too much right now.

1424
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:31,680
I think it's only Osmosis, maybe Evmos, Juno, and I think SAE is doing it now.

1425
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:36,240
I think that's it for a minimum commission or mission and gas across chain.

1426
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:37,840
And that's a really, that's a really cool thing.

1427
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:47,400
So an Osmosis early on, there was like a handshake minimum for validators, but a lot didn't.

1428
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:52,920
And what that led to was there was a lot of MEV being done where because there was zero

1429
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:58,800
fees for everyone, they would just absolutely hammer all of the nodes with transactions

1430
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:03,440
to try to like be the person that was there first.

1431
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:09,040
And so that led to a lot of like blocks filling up and state expansion.

1432
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:14,040
And it just from a validator and like a node maintainer perspective, it sucked.

1433
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:18,680
That's why epochs took so long because there is, you know, let's say five people spanning

1434
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:23,120
a thousand transactions for a single block because they wanted to get the arbitrage

1435
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:25,200
back from a chain.

1436
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:27,880
If they had to pay a little bit of fees for that, then they wouldn't have just spammed

1437
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,200
a chain and made it difficult for everyone else to use.

1438
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,200
It's really cool to say is doing that and I applaud them for it.

1439
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:36,600
So what you're saying there, just so some clarity, you're saying that there is a chain

1440
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:40,520
minimum gas, not a validator agreement of minimum gas.

1441
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:45,920
So regardless, even if a validator sets it at zero percent or at zero, whatever token

1442
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:50,680
that the chain that it still is a rejected transaction because it didn't meet the minimum.

1443
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:51,680
Correct.

1444
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:52,680
Yeah.

1445
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:56,480
So like the process is like, it'll look at the node that you're actually seeing a transaction

1446
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,480
to if the node transaction says zero, then the transaction will go like one step further.

1447
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,000
And then the chain will look at it and be like, okay, well, it's enough fees sent back

1448
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,280
and the chain will be like, well, there's not.

1449
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,120
And so then it'll kind of like roll back an error out.

1450
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:10,120
So right.

1451
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:11,120
Yeah.

1452
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:17,160
So I would say it's probably important to have that given that the DEX module to stop

1453
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:22,600
like DEX modules spam, which like given that in the test that it's free to run because

1454
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:26,800
it's not your own money and there is just tons of fucking spam.

1455
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:34,600
So yeah, when it's real money in the mainnet, I guess a lot of that will get alleviated.

1456
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:40,640
And yeah, I mean, it's been like, I'm looking to say it's like being ultra detrimental to

1457
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:45,840
the testnet, but it's added a lot of challenges along the way to the testnet in like state

1458
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:51,920
bloat and you know, just like hammering it for PCs and stuff like that.

1459
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:52,920
Yeah.

1460
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:53,920
Wow.

1461
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:54,920
Fuck was that?

1462
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:59,080
There was a meme shoved in there somewhere.

1463
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:02,360
Frey just unmute shoving memes in this conversation.

1464
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:04,720
Well, I'm dealing with us right now.

1465
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:09,840
I've been completely spammed right now and it's so much so that you can't state sync

1466
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:11,640
on ethmos anymore.

1467
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:16,360
Stay sync for listeners is like, if you want to start up a new node, you need some way

1468
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:19,600
to get to the current block without sinking from the beginning.

1469
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,640
State sync will say, okay, well, I'm going to look at all the other nodes and see what

1470
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,800
they say for block one and just verify that it's correct and then move on from there.

1471
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:30,040
Ethmos has such a diluted and messed up state.

1472
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:31,040
You can't do that anymore.

1473
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:35,960
So the only way to do it is to download like a 200 gigabyte snapshot and start from there.

1474
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:42,120
Whereas other chains like secret, I think is that like 1.7 gigabytes after you state

1475
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:43,120
sync.

1476
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:47,640
It's just an astronomical difference and it's taxing.

1477
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:48,640
It's brutal.

1478
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:53,640
And that 200 gig I think is after Cozum pruning, right?

1479
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:54,640
That's after pruning.

1480
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:55,640
Yeah.

1481
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:56,640
Yeah.

1482
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:57,640
Yeah.

1483
01:09:57,640 --> 01:09:58,640
And that's transaction index is turned off.

1484
01:09:58,640 --> 01:09:59,640
That's the absolute minimum you can pull off right now.

1485
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:03,560
So if you look for snapshots, you're going to find some terabyte large snapshots and

1486
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:04,560
those aren't even archives.

1487
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:09,120
Those are just someone has indexing and hasn't like didn't prune it before saving it.

1488
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:10,120
It's absurd.

1489
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:16,680
So I haven't even bothered to try and like state sync a Ethmos node in ages.

1490
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:24,280
So I guess the result of that is over time, like, you know, our sign rate is just decaying

1491
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:25,280
over there.

1492
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:26,280
Yeah.

1493
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:30,880
And that's what the rewards going down like the values are going to lose interest.

1494
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:36,080
Like it has to be an operational component of this as well, which means that I can't

1495
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:41,320
have a two terabyte Ethmos node that's missing 25% of blocks because I can't prune it or

1496
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:43,280
I can't do something to make it more performant.

1497
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,720
And if it's, if I'm sitting there just getting beat up on performance, I'm just going to

1498
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:47,720
lose interest, right?

1499
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:49,440
And you're going to end up kind of leaving.

1500
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:50,760
And we're proud about that too.

1501
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:52,720
Because the team, they just made a change.

1502
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,480
I think there was a memory issue with state sync, but, but they were really looking at

1503
01:10:56,480 --> 01:11:00,560
this before that and somebody brought it up and then they were like, just created a new

1504
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:05,600
version here where I wanted Huckleberry, Huckleberry came out with that supposedly fixed the memory

1505
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:06,960
issue, but I still can't get a snapshot.

1506
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,560
I mean, I still can't get a state sync snapshot on that chain.

1507
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:13,520
I just tried a couple of days ago, try to bring it back forward and I tried for 12 hours.

1508
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:14,520
I could knock it.

1509
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:19,280
I couldn't even get a single snapshot to even start, start pulling in components in there.

1510
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:20,920
So it was just, it's just, it's frustrating.

1511
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:27,600
Do you know what's really strange on EvMOS is I have a node that is like super old that

1512
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:29,960
I haven't done anything with.

1513
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:38,760
And the drive thrash is like really significantly less on that node than what it is in newer

1514
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:40,560
nodes that I've brought up.

1515
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:41,560
Yeah.

1516
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:42,560
Yeah.

1517
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:43,560
I don't know why that is.

1518
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:45,320
It's, it's still like at the head.

1519
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:50,400
It's still the performance of that node is actually pretty good too.

1520
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:58,480
And but like the other node in the swarm is like just thrashing the shit out of my drives

1521
01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:05,840
and the, like my EvMOS RPC as well is just, I've got it on its, it's like out there on

1522
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,000
its own and it is just beating up the driver.

1523
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:11,920
I don't know why it's the newer nodes which are doing it and the older one, I had two

1524
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:17,440
older ones, not, but I deleted one not, not like a week ago, but the two older nodes were

1525
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:22,320
fine on the drive thrashing, but the two newer ones are just fucking it up.

1526
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:23,320
Yeah.

1527
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:24,320
Yeah.

1528
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:25,320
I don't know.

1529
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:26,840
I couldn't even, I couldn't even tell you, maybe it's something with ruining or something

1530
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:32,000
else like that, but I don't know, kind of losing interest in, in like they are exactly

1531
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:33,000
the same settings.

1532
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:34,000
Are they?

1533
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:35,000
Yeah.

1534
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:39,320
But I mean, there's like no, there's no money in, in EvMOS for the validators.

1535
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,120
Like it's you validating for free over there.

1536
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:44,440
Like, I don't want to talk on a turn.

1537
01:12:44,440 --> 01:12:50,480
I don't know if that team has given up or like just the, like usually have a little bit

1538
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:56,880
more forward communication about problems and solving problems and like upgrades.

1539
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:02,040
And there really hasn't been much, I don't think coming out of the EvMOS team recently.

1540
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,880
And I'm not sure if that is just like, would you agree with that?

1541
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:08,960
Like, I don't know if that's, is that pressure or what that is, but like, like, I just don't

1542
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:09,960
see that.

1543
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,560
I don't see the hustle, at least on the operation side.

1544
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:14,920
I would push back really hard on that.

1545
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:15,920
Yeah.

1546
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:16,920
Yeah.

1547
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:17,920
I'm still pretty bullish on EvMOS.

1548
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:19,600
I think that they're still a strong team.

1549
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:20,920
It's still, they're doing cool things.

1550
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:27,200
I think that for a very long time, they were over communicative, like to the point where

1551
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:30,960
I had muted the discord for a while and like, I check back every once in a while to see

1552
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:32,280
if things were happening.

1553
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,120
And that's it because they just did too much.

1554
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:39,120
And I think that this is an example of them, just the pendulum swinging a bit and then

1555
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:40,840
figuring out where they're at.

1556
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:44,200
They also lost their, their main communication person.

1557
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:46,640
Evmai Chan, Evmos Chan.

1558
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:47,640
Yeah.

1559
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:48,640
Yeah.

1560
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:53,280
So I think that honestly, even with where it's currently at the current, I think Tricky

1561
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:55,000
is the main communication person.

1562
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:56,560
And I think he's doing a great job.

1563
01:13:56,560 --> 01:14:00,480
I think that he's communicating a, like they're not being over.

1564
01:14:00,480 --> 01:14:01,480
Tricky stepped back.

1565
01:14:01,480 --> 01:14:02,480
Tricky stepped back.

1566
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:03,480
Yeah.

1567
01:14:03,480 --> 01:14:04,480
Who's doing it?

1568
01:14:04,480 --> 01:14:05,480
Really?

1569
01:14:05,480 --> 01:14:06,480
Who's doing it now?

1570
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:07,480
Don't I?

1571
01:14:07,480 --> 01:14:13,400
I was just talking to the community, I was just talking to node ops specifically.

1572
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:14,400
That's all.

1573
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:15,400
Yeah.

1574
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:17,760
I think that, I think that this is just an example of the pendulum swinging the opposite

1575
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:19,260
direction.

1576
01:14:19,260 --> 01:14:21,120
And I don't know, I appreciate it.

1577
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:22,520
I appreciate that they're still building.

1578
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:25,160
Like I can check the GitHub and still see that they're doing stuff.

1579
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,360
It's just not spamming everything.

1580
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:28,360
Yeah.

1581
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:29,360
Right.

1582
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:30,360
Yeah.

1583
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:36,680
I think recently they're like, they've had, you know, a lot of backlash about the founder

1584
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:39,560
that left and is like selling tokens as well.

1585
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:40,560
Yeah.

1586
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:41,560
That doesn't help.

1587
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:44,160
The token price is in the dirt.

1588
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:45,160
So yeah.

1589
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:51,120
I wonder if they're very resolutely in eat each other season at the moment.

1590
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:54,840
So yeah, it's kind of what happens at these points.

1591
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,600
And until everybody's finished chowing down.

1592
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:58,600
Yeah.

1593
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,360
It's kind of hard to judge sentiment, isn't it?

1594
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:05,960
Except on the hub where the price means everybody is living in a sunlit.

1595
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:06,960
Upland.

1596
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:07,960
Yep.

1597
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:08,960
Yep.

1598
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:13,360
So Juno had about a 50 million market cap, which is probably where it should have been

1599
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:14,960
in the first place.

1600
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:23,520
Hey, I mean, in hindsight, the blowout, all of your Juno to get into the hub valve set

1601
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:30,600
when the two prices were disjointed in the favor of Juno was the 40 chest move after

1602
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:31,600
all.

1603
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:32,600
So who did that?

1604
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:33,600
Who did that?

1605
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:34,600
None of us.

1606
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,960
I could tell you who did not do that.

1607
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:38,960
I could tell you.

1608
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:39,960
Yeah.

1609
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:45,080
As you said, I could tell you which smooth brained business genius did not do that.

1610
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:50,200
It's quite identifying it as a possibility and considering it and then go.

1611
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:51,200
No.

1612
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:56,360
I never really considered joining the hub just because of the whole fucking floors lava

1613
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:57,360
thing.

1614
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:58,360
Yeah, me either.

1615
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:00,440
I didn't want too much.

1616
01:16:00,440 --> 01:16:03,400
Who's got two thumbs and bags full of worthless Juno?

1617
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:04,400
This guy.

1618
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:05,400
This guy too.

1619
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:11,080
I hope you've also paid tax on it because that's the other kick in the balls.

1620
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:13,080
I love it.

1621
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:14,080
Yeah.

1622
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:21,040
We as a business have a strong enjoyment of paying tax on now worthless tokens at their

1623
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:22,040
peak value.

1624
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:23,040
That is.

1625
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:26,720
I think you, sir, as a business has not paid tax on it.

1626
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:27,720
Almost guarantee.

1627
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:29,120
Who me as a business?

1628
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:30,120
No.

1629
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:31,120
Yeah.

1630
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:32,120
Cash basis.

1631
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:33,120
Cash basis, baby.

1632
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:34,120
Fuck the government.

1633
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:41,160
If that was an option for us, we would be a lot more chilled out.

1634
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:43,240
That is an option for you, the phrase.

1635
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:45,520
Just you listen to those fucking boffins too much.

1636
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:47,000
You just pull the trigger.

1637
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:51,280
There's alternate option and then you fucking fight them when they come up to you.

1638
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:52,280
There's good.

1639
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:56,280
Again, accounting methods are accounting methods and this this kind of method works.

1640
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:57,280
Okay.

1641
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:02,360
Now you can't switch back and forth and in a in a in a bull market is not good.

1642
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:04,160
Like you want some losses in there.

1643
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:10,600
So it's it's just we picked an option where you pay a fair amount of tax.

1644
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:18,840
It's more we pay more upfront than what you would in like a capital gains type basis of

1645
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:23,400
asset and we just pay on everything that we hold at the current value at the end of

1646
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:24,400
the FY.

1647
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:28,960
But it's just I feel like we're probably paying more more tax than we need to.

1648
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:33,440
But it's like less administration and let like, you know, you save yourself 20 grand

1649
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:35,440
and fucking administration straight away.

1650
01:17:35,440 --> 01:17:38,400
I've just looked on gov.uk.

1651
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:45,440
I typed in in the search box cash basis plus company and no results.

1652
01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:49,600
The HMRC section has this to say about it.

1653
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:50,600
You can start.

1654
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:51,600
Well, okay.

1655
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:55,440
I'm actually not going to repeat the entire of the cash base.

1656
01:17:55,440 --> 01:17:57,920
That would be boring by my standards.

1657
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:05,200
The TLDR is that your revenue has to be below one hundred and fifty thousand pounds in the

1658
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:06,200
year.

1659
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:10,800
If you'd viably say you should be able to use cash basis.

1660
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:16,520
And in this case, in this case, cash basis is probably not really what you said is referring

1661
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:19,680
to because that's cash and accruals.

1662
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:22,640
It kind of is but it kind of like is a little bit different.

1663
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:26,640
It's cash based accounting or cash based accounting and we can in the US you can do cash based

1664
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,720
or accrual based taxes as an organization as a business, not as an individual.

1665
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:31,720
Yeah, exactly.

1666
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:38,200
But I feel like in the UK and Australia, like the handling of assets might be different

1667
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:43,760
when you have a cash based accounting is probably not the way that you handle them and would

1668
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:45,440
take some sort of argumenting.

1669
01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:46,440
Yeah.

1670
01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:48,520
Oh, actually, it's even more specific.

1671
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:50,640
I was looking at the wrong page.

1672
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:55,600
Limited companies and limited liability partnerships cannot use cash basis at any value.

1673
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:57,160
There you go.

1674
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:58,160
You're out.

1675
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:05,080
That's interesting because we certainly can't hear and for a public or a small business

1676
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:11,000
where it's just you as a sole trader, but that's like a different set of accounting

1677
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:12,480
rules here is my understanding.

1678
01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:15,160
I'm so happy we got to the tax section of the show.

1679
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:16,360
I'm finally fucking picked up.

1680
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:18,440
It's what's going to happen.

1681
01:19:18,440 --> 01:19:20,280
We're dragging along for 80 minutes.

1682
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:21,840
People just wait.

1683
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:25,920
What the fuck is it?

1684
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:31,720
Yeah, holding their shots for fucking like, come on.

1685
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:33,920
I need to get drunk already.

1686
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:34,920
What the fuck, man?

1687
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:38,560
Going back to Edmonds, Ben Davis says, Bear chain going to eat their honey.

1688
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,280
Yeah, Bear chain is like the new hot shit in the block, right?

1689
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:44,000
Nobody knows what the fuck it is and bear chain.

1690
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:45,000
Yeah.

1691
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:46,960
Or how to get in there as a validator.

1692
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:48,800
We're just about everybody's working on it.

1693
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:53,360
I'm sure I'm sure Schultz is any is not talking about it, but but yeah, it's not.

1694
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:54,800
It's all hot shit over there.

1695
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:55,800
You can bet your ass.

1696
01:19:55,800 --> 01:20:01,000
Perk is there in Perida and fucking Cosmo station.

1697
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:02,520
Yeah, exactly.

1698
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:03,800
I'm sure Sticks eaters in there.

1699
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:06,720
It's all, you know, oh, who's the guru?

1700
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:07,720
He'll be there for sure.

1701
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:08,720
Yeah.

1702
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:09,720
Oh, no, it's guru.

1703
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:10,720
No, it's guru is everywhere.

1704
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:11,720
100% in friends.

1705
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:13,240
Maybe I don't know how but friends.

1706
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:14,720
I think I think they're kind of phone.

1707
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:16,760
I think they've lost interest maybe a little bit, right?

1708
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:19,400
I haven't really seen them in a lot of new chains anymore.

1709
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:20,400
No, it's guru.

1710
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:21,400
It's guru to their point.

1711
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:22,400
I mean, that's a good bet.

1712
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:23,400
They're a good validator.

1713
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:24,400
Like they have their shit together.

1714
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:25,400
They are strong team.

1715
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:26,400
I would definitely stand out.

1716
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:31,200
I mean, what anytime we get involved in other L ones or this and that, like they're in there

1717
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:35,560
and they're not like the last, you know, they're not the last animal at the trough type of

1718
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:38,720
thing, but they they're on top of it, which is really that's refreshing.

1719
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:39,720
Unlike figment.

1720
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:43,320
I wasn't going to say it, but I, you know, I thought it.

1721
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:48,960
There are so many times where like they'll throw in there like, wait, how do you do this

1722
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:49,960
upgrade?

1723
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:50,960
Yeah.

1724
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:51,960
At the main that launch.

1725
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:54,480
Hey, I know we're only six hours away from launch, but yeah.

1726
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:55,480
Where are the docs?

1727
01:20:55,480 --> 01:20:56,480
How do I get in Genesis?

1728
01:20:56,480 --> 01:20:57,480
Where are the docs?

1729
01:20:57,480 --> 01:21:00,280
How do I get in here?

1730
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:02,960
You know, Dora, Dora factories doing that now too.

1731
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:04,040
Just dropping in the last minute.

1732
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:05,360
How I get in this door.

1733
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:06,360
I tried that.

1734
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:09,280
What would you talk about that they showed up and asked about how to be a main net?

1735
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:10,800
Was that I think it was no less.

1736
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:11,800
It was no less.

1737
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:14,280
So they put so no less in the discord.

1738
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:18,040
I guess you said that they asked to be a main net and then they suddenly showed up in the

1739
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:19,520
no less main net channel, right?

1740
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:20,520
Yeah.

1741
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,800
And they liked the number two validator.

1742
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:27,640
So I went to the no less discord and I just copied exactly what they wrote and I put it

1743
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:28,640
in myself.

1744
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:32,120
I just said, Hey, I literally, I just copied exactly what their thing was and I put it

1745
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:33,920
in there, but I didn't get invited.

1746
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,160
I still, I noticed you got brutally.

1747
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:38,640
Somebody's like, read the docs.

1748
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:39,640
Why weren't you in test that?

1749
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:40,640
I was like, you fuckers.

1750
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:44,320
You know, test us a garbage.

1751
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:45,820
Test us a garbage.

1752
01:21:45,820 --> 01:21:47,320
You serve as Billy Big Bulls.

1753
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:48,480
You need to just let him in.

1754
01:21:48,480 --> 01:21:49,480
Let me in.

1755
01:21:49,480 --> 01:21:50,480
Let him in.

1756
01:21:50,480 --> 01:21:51,960
That was like a magic way that you ask.

1757
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:52,960
I thought so.

1758
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:54,960
I thought that that's, that's the move.

1759
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:55,960
That's it.

1760
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:56,960
You showed last minute.

1761
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:57,960
Yeah.

1762
01:21:57,960 --> 01:21:58,960
This is the move.

1763
01:21:58,960 --> 01:21:59,960
Just say how, how I do this.

1764
01:21:59,960 --> 01:22:01,760
And then my balls and I have arrived.

1765
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:02,760
How do I do this?

1766
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:03,760
Exactly.

1767
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:04,760
Where is the GitHub?

1768
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:07,360
Test Nats for the Little Dogs.

1769
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:09,000
Donday Esther, the Entrance.

1770
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:10,000
Exactly.

1771
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:11,000
Exactly.

1772
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:12,000
Yeah, exactly.

1773
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:13,000
It's like, it's like Goodfellas.

1774
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:15,360
Like I come in through the kitchen and shit, right?

1775
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:16,960
Like you got to walk in through.

1776
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:17,960
Oh, fucking.

1777
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:18,960
I know.

1778
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:21,080
I have a, I have a table for you right up in front.

1779
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,640
Except if it would be more like the, the kitchen scene in Tenet where he goes into

1780
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:28,320
the kitchen and he realizes they're about to all try and kill him with the knives.

1781
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:32,360
And he goes like, I was just coming back here because I asked for my hot sauce 30

1782
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:36,160
minutes and then they all come at him and he's just like, oh fuck.

1783
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:37,160
Yeah.

1784
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:41,400
Yeah, that's like me trying to get a valse as I somehow end up getting knifed in the

1785
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:44,520
back of a shitty diner.

1786
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:47,040
Oh, uh, min scan 2.0.

1787
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:48,040
Yeah.

1788
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:49,040
Yeah.

1789
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:50,040
What is that in the beta?

1790
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:51,040
No.

1791
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:52,040
What is it?

1792
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:53,040
Two point.

1793
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:54,040
Oh, is it just a newer Explorer?

1794
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:55,040
Yeah.

1795
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:56,040
It's doing a lot.

1796
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:59,440
The next iteration of mint scan.

1797
01:22:59,440 --> 01:23:02,280
They're also going to do two point.

1798
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:03,280
Oh, crowd.

1799
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:08,560
They're going to once again get something onto the hub by the longest possible route.

1800
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:11,880
It's just a Trojan horse for some 2.0.

1801
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:17,000
I feel like I can disclose some details.

1802
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:19,760
Are they going after Kepler shit?

1803
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:20,760
Kepler.

1804
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:21,760
No scroll.

1805
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:28,200
It's flashing off of his face as such a funny vibe to it.

1806
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:29,720
There's Kepler 2.0, right?

1807
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:33,400
Well, I mean, like they have the validator Kepler pages.

1808
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:37,720
Obviously, the wallet Kepler pages are getting much more.

1809
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:42,240
Which reminds me in terms of like portfolio and this and that.

1810
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:43,240
And I want to see percentages.

1811
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:49,080
And all of these are as use of drill tweets in the in the validator reasoning.

1812
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:50,080
Okay.

1813
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:51,080
Hang on.

1814
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:52,080
Hang on.

1815
01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:54,480
I'm going to strong nine to light 10 out of 10.

1816
01:23:54,480 --> 01:23:55,480
Hold on.

1817
01:23:55,480 --> 01:23:56,480
Hold on.

1818
01:23:56,480 --> 01:23:57,480
Hang on.

1819
01:23:57,480 --> 01:23:59,880
I'm going to go to the wilds.

1820
01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:01,880
It's 2008.

1821
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:04,640
You know the one.

1822
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:10,320
I would run the shit out of this if we're just a couple of minutes early.

1823
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:12,280
We're in the section deep state.

1824
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:17,520
Not many good wiki leaks lately was hoping Julian would find out which individual or

1825
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:21,280
agency keeps ripping the gutters off my house.

1826
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:23,880
Am I keeping track of this time?

1827
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:24,880
Didn't we delay this section?

1828
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:26,600
I thought we got rid of this section.

1829
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:28,840
I had a moment with that tweet.

1830
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:29,840
It's the section.

1831
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:30,840
A moment.

1832
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:31,840
Accommon scan.

1833
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:32,840
You can't.

1834
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:40,360
So there is a accounts tab where you can get an overview of all of your accounts and

1835
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:41,360
tokens.

1836
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:42,360
Okay.

1837
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:44,240
That's like the wallet or the Kepler wallet page, right?

1838
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:45,240
Yeah.

1839
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:46,240
Yeah.

1840
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:51,240
There's a updated validated tab where it appears that it just gives stats for validators.

1841
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:55,360
There's a proposals tab in depth information about what's going on.

1842
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:56,840
Is that across all chains?

1843
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:58,400
I believe so.

1844
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:00,640
So that's like the validator.

1845
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:05,640
It's like say validate.

1846
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:10,000
My long term opinion was that Kepler was going to build and explore and just integrate all

1847
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:13,080
that stuff because they own the wallet side and they have the wallet page.

1848
01:25:13,080 --> 01:25:16,160
I would assume why would you go to Minskamp for anything?

1849
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:18,040
So I think they must be feeling that heat.

1850
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,360
If you got pubs new, explore, I think it's really good too.

1851
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:22,360
They did and I see you.

1852
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:23,360
I change it and pick that pub.

1853
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:25,480
Although the wallet integration is really janky.

1854
01:25:25,480 --> 01:25:26,960
You got some clunky shit in it.

1855
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:27,960
Yeah.

1856
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:29,120
I don't like that wallet integration.

1857
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:30,880
It's always been clunky to me though.

1858
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:31,880
Yeah.

1859
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:35,680
Oh man, it is better than what it used to be ping.pub.

1860
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:53,040
Like that old way they were doing wallets was a fucking pain in the ass.