Hi, so let's go around the room and you're like, well, I'm the fucking degenerate.
I mean, sorry, I'm the technical SME on the product on the project and I'll be
and you just like, what the fuck?
Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent
validator teams.
Hello, apparently it's nine o'clock and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly
podcast on the cosmos from independent validator teams.
And once again, we've got special guest Null with us all the way from Australia.
So expect a bit of lag.
Also, you know, again, we can kind of weirdly see how you enjoying the standing desk.
Null. I'm sitting down.
Yeah, I should sit down.
How long does that last?
Wait, wait, hold a second.
How long is your body?
What? Yeah.
From the mirror behind you, it really does look like you're standing.
It does. Oh, there you go.
No, it doesn't.
See, the chair is oddly shaped like you're.
See, I mean, it kind of looked like.
I'm not going to lie.
This chair is fucking garbage.
I hate it.
It's it's terrible.
It's my it's my partner's chair and it's like one of those racing car chairs
and it fucking sucks.
So yeah, it's not great.
But I just got her.
I just got her back for having a shitty chair when I made a coffee.
Her retainer thing was in a cup and I accidentally filled it with milk.
So.
Does it at least have like a like a PlayStation one star steering wheel or something?
No, no.
It's not like she's in the steering wheel.
It's got patterns in the pleather.
Pleather.
It's not leather.
I get a sweaty asshole every day.
Looking at our viewer count, it looks like everyone has completely given up on us.
This is the final final straw in the in the bear market saga.
Well, you know, we started with zero.
We're back to zero.
It's kind of the shit coin journey.
The you know, like, you know, the the the joes, it was named the guy, Joseph.
You know, the heroes, Jenny, like the archetypal several types of story that just told
a Joseph Campbell, Joseph, of course, a fucking course shorts.
He knows, of course, short.
He knows that that is exactly kind of fact that I'm just like, yeah, short.
We should know that.
Yeah, that checks out.
Yeah.
So it's like a Joseph Campbell thing.
So but instead of like the hero's journey, it's like the shit coins journey starts
off the zero, goes up really quickly at the beginning, thanks to largely exogenous
factors in our case, probably prop 16, tail end of the spiciest drama in maybe in
the cosmos overall, I don't know.
And then it's just been a long, slow slide from there on on onwards to to where
we are now.
Somebody would say, was it who was it that posted that chart of was it metal, the
the blockchain where the price chart was just like basically backed out to zero.
They're flat, flat, flat, flat slide.
It's like, I mean, it's really it's like every cosmos chain right now, for the
most part, like they're all at different rates of decline, but they're all kind of
the slow, the slowly edging out, slowly edging towards.
Now, now to to our on the other side of that, we have done zero marketing.
We just put a tweet out literally when this started.
Well, no reminder.
But what I was going to say is that that that that chart that was shared, you may
recall that there was a funny thing at the end of the chart.
Yeah.
Which is that right, right at the end of the chart, right on the far left of the
price chart, there was a big buy, like a massive whale.
There was a believer in there.
Just some real believer.
I kind of feel like with Game of Nose, we're still a long way before we we
we reach that that whale moment when people start buying back in.
So we're going to be here broadcasting throughout the bear market and beyond.
For folks listening on the podcast, I would say that our downloads continue to
increase the number of the number of people that actually download every week
continues to go up.
And it actually ended a little bit of a trajectory.
So even though it show up live, we are more people are tuning in or at least
starting the maybe it's a three seconds like, oh, this shit and they hang up.
But that but hey, we'll take the viewer count there.
Well, I think there is some evidence that I mean, certainly with YouTube based
streams and podcasts that one of the biggest things you need is a large
corpus of content before the algorithm starts recommending you.
We also have the problem that we say fuck all the time.
And so we get D, D listed and D monetized and we get kind of hellbanned.
So it probably makes sense that our YouTube is always going to be a tough
set because we get we're always getting shadow banned for my language specifically.
What's interesting about that actually is that I purposely held off on the explicit
tag on a bunch of our episodes, actually 99% of our episodes.
I never tagged the actual podcast as explicit.
And then just last week, I was like, why the fuck am I like, why the hell am I
doing this? Who gives a shit?
Like we don't want anybody you're 18 once nobody should be involved in this shit.
If you're that young anyway, so who cares?
And I added it and then the numbers went up.
Yeah, baby.
D-jins.
I don't know what it wasn't 100% tied, but maybe there's no profanity.
I don't want to listen to that shit.
That's not a world I want to live in.
I only built an explicit.
I don't know.
My feeling is through.
You've traveled across America now.
You're a man of the world, or at least a man of North America.
I feel like on the whole, generalization, my impression of traveling across America
is that Americans don't like profanity.
They've more than other English speaking countries.
Did I tell you that I had a long conversation with an Amish on the train?
You did, yes.
So I dropped many FNC bombs while I was talking to that Amish.
And he did not seem phased at all.
He was just interested in what I had to say about fucking nothing.
He probably was just astonished that Australia was in fact a real place.
He may have been scared.
He was like, just not in smile.
He was politely backing away.
I was like advancing.
Hey, man, I tell you about this crypto shit.
Could I jump off this train?
I had a weird, like, a really short but weird interaction with an Amish person on the train.
And I genuinely, it was the first time I ever seen an Amish person in my life.
And I was totally stunned by it.
And this was back when I used to use Twitter as myself back in the real world, long before crypto.
And I just tweeted something like, holy fuck, I just had a weird interaction with an Amish person
on the train. And an Amish person fucking tweeted me back and like,
fucking, all right, don't be big against Amish people with fucking pranks.
We take trains.
And I was like, oh, hold on.
And you use fucking Twitter.
Like, I've not, I have given that I've only just met an Amish person for the first time.
I am not an expert in the Amish, but I'm pretty certain that Twitter is off the fucking menu lads.
But some Google revealed that some people consider the mobile phone
to be a type of telephone, to be a type of telegraph, which then gets you back in the
building and yes, you're fucking sorted.
It's all fucking loopholes, right?
Yeah. Desktop PC, no fucking chance.
But telephone, which is basically a telegraph, will get you in the door with a mobile phone
and you're on Twitter.
I was talking to this lad.
He was a racist.
And I'm like, I was talking to this lad for a while.
And they play fast and loose for those fucking rules.
Let me tell you, like your man had one of those mobile phones that is like a chair.
But it had like the dock, you know, like the old candy bar fucking thing with nothing on it.
And it's just like text and call, like an old, like a Motorola fucking thing that you almost
need to back for.
You can still text.
You can text.
You fucking suspect.
I mean, Twitter is just texting to everyone, right?
Well, I mean, well, the reason it's originally 140 characters is because of the
whatever it is, 155 character spare space, isn't it, on the ping from the cell tower.
Okay.
So like SMS is.
Is that true?
Yeah, I get it.
I get it.
Yeah.
I don't have a fucking hour explanation.
So you know, if you know your phone call, your phone calls home.
So for those listening, it's something like you need to fact check this to get the exact
details.
It's something like your phone is was pinging cell towers to find out like where the nearest
one is and what network is on blah, blah, blah.
In that packet of data, it has a bit of extra space and that is the the spare space is the
SMS and it's it's something like that.
And it's also why, you know, if you're at like a big concert, like a festival or something like
that, and you try and text your mates and say, oh, we're at the front by the fucking white guy
with a massive dreadlocks.
It was a tool concert.
Viewers, it was a tool concert.
Surprise, surprise, your text ain't going to fucking arrive because there's five.
Well, first of all, there's two problems with that that concert.
Number one is there's 5000 people trying to tell each other where they are at the Hammersmith
Apollo in relation to Adam Jones's sick guitar tones.
But also in the average tool concert of 5000 people, there are 3200 white guys with dreadlocks.
So that landmark is completely useless to you.
But the cell towers and their cell towers overloaded so nobody's text gets through.
I used to have dreadlocks and really enjoy tool.
Still do.
What?
No, you didn't do it.
I would love to see that.
You did not have dreadlocks.
Like in show you a photo.
I absolutely.
Yeah, I need to see it.
I was having a pretty good day as well.
I was just thinking my day's going to be okay.
I'm not sure it could get any better.
And now, you know, my cup run is over, man.
Looking forward to this for editing.
I do want to see that.
I won't.
I won't put it up on here because it will get like proliferated throughout the internet.
If I do because I'm a scumbag, yes, it will.
So that's a good idea.
But I will then ask you this.
Sir, what is the best tool album?
I like the last one that they did.
I don't know the name of it, but it was the good one.
Fear and Oculom.
Yeah, that's good.
I really like it.
Me too.
Mine's Lateralis.
I think that's my 10,000 days.
10,000 days.
I'm one of those.
Look, I'm one of those guys who listens to like lots of different genres and bands,
but never really knows the names of any of the songs or album.
You're about to listen to the Leica version show on Triple J.
And I love that.
That is your favorite.
So you serve Leica version on Triple J.
I don't know how you can't love that shit.
I just love like the like just the band's different flavor on all of them.
I love it.
You serve it.
Do you ever watch any of the fucking the ones that I send through?
Or you just like, oh, it's another Leica version video.
Fuck.
No, I was.
You sent me one.
It's always at the same time because it's like in the middle of my night,
like in the middle of your night or something.
So it's like you're up too late and then I get like this random link of a Leica version.
And then like what I do is I just click on it and just watch it.
And then now what I do is I jump ahead like four minutes after they get in to actually
see what the hell is going to go on because that one that you sent me,
which I will put the link in the show notes, I will find that one that it started weird.
It just got off the rails.
Like it was really that one with like the naked dudes, not naked, but they're like,
like all greased up and they're like, what the fuck are you sending me?
It was like three in the morning.
I was like, what are you sending me?
They're doing weights and shit.
Be Eddie.
Yeah.
Link will be in the show to this one.
There's another one that I'm sure I said you.
It's it's peaking duck doing this cover of I kind of remember the fucking song.
But just that there's this dude like with all this curly hair is like the front man for peaking duck.
Like there's this other chick.
I'm pretty sure she's not even like normally in the band.
Right. And she's doing the singing doing a really good job.
But this this other dude is on the guitar and he's like taller than everyone else.
He's got this fucking mane of hair coming off him.
Right. And then and then like he's just so fucking extra.
He is just whenever I'm like having a shit morning, I like I put that song on.
Hight me up.
I just watched this guy's energy into the room and I'm like fucking now.
It's it's pretty epic.
Right. You'd remember it if you watched it.
You probably fucking I'm trying to usually that one I was trying to block out.
But now that we're making sure it's in the in the show notes for the show.
So if you if you want to check out at home on your own time, you can see Niles extra man.
What if it's a live version or if it's just a live session on Australian radio show.
But I love one of my favorite ones.
Obviously they're too fat.
There are some really good like a versions and actually I'm slagging off.
But I actually also spent some time on that YouTube channel.
It's really good.
I think I think it's like a version.
I can't remember.
There's obviously a big fan of the Australian progressive rock band Carnival.
And one of my favorite moments is they're they do a live they just stream like a live session.
And then right at the end as they finish, I think it's the song Aeons Aeons.
Aeons must be Aeons actually off of asymmetry.
Like really it's really emotional. It's like about the end of the world.
It's about like the end of the mankind from like a plague or something like that.
And you get right to the end of the singer Ian Kenny.
Everybody's sort of wrapping up and he steps away from the mic, but the mic is still hot.
And he just goes, I reckon that was the tits.
And he just gets picked up by the mic.
And that's literally the last thing you hear before the video ends is the last thing you see.
And you're like, they're they're an Australian fan.
What can you fucking say? That's that's fucking.
Yeah, that's part of the fucking course of the lives.
Too funny. Yeah, mute.
So yeah, what's happening? What's happening in the cosmos?
I I literally at the moment I am I'm nine to fiveing my cosmos experience,
which is that I'm doing call one work behind the scenes and checking in with people and stuff.
But I have come off Twitter for a little bit because just a bit. It's a bit silly.
So other than Ben B basically sending me fucking what out of accelerators do it.
So this is what we did. That's cool.
Well, because there there was some I come who was somebody had got somebody who got in touch that
Juno had funded to do some really specific work around supporting cosmism.
I think it was recently or this is in the past.
Yeah, I think I feel like it might have been subquery actually, because they were on the show
and that does ring a bell. You can tell that I've had I've worked an eight hour day before
coming on this because I am even more scared than usual. But yeah, it was something like that.
And it was like, what was it like? What working with them? And I was just like,
anybody's asking you for money. They're really nice to you until you give them the money.
And they're fucking asshole.
Yeah, to be fair, pretty nice afterwards as well, because you give them the money. But
you know, it's just whether or not that's actually useful to you is obviously
this is the kind of really lucid consultative advice you'll get from me, by the way, if you do
actually if you do actually work with me in professional context. This is the kind of
real cutting insight that I can give you. Be nice before you get the money and
shortly thereafter you get the money. Is that your advice? Yeah, I mean,
I mean, it was this this cautionary advice I would give to a company of any size going through a
tender or due diligence process. Definitely being a dick before you get the money is a
pretty although invalidator teams that happens all the time. There's I love we were just talking
about we were just talking about like teams are yelling at projects about delegations and like,
what the fuck are you doing? We're just laughing about that channel because it's
it's always interesting to have when like maybe some partial delegation comes out or the team's
not done or they haven't figured it out. And some of those go out and everybody who's not in that
list just like some people are just like, whatever, you know, like maybe get asked behind the channels
or maybe hasn't happened yet, you have some patients and some people are like, the fuck you
doing, man? Like, where's where's my delegation? What the fuck? And it always makes me laugh to
say, well, maybe maybe you should be nice before you get the delegation and then ask later about
that. Well, the great part about this week was that they even decided to run like an impromptu
poll on like, who thought the current delegation system was okay. And like that's just really
that's advanced. Mark is what that is. That's just advanced fucking passive aggressive behavior
that is. And then and then actually the crow's nest, the bro came out and said is like,
and this validator's running at 0%. It didn't make a fucking difference anyway.
Like, what do you worry about delegation for like, it's coming to 0%. Like what the fuck?
It's just weird. Like, that was like, why would you never in 0% and you're yelling about lack of
foundation delegation? I gotta get to the top, bro. That's the name of the game. Get to the top.
Get to the top. I want my name on top. Yeah. Before we get too far off under the cosmos land,
I want to talk about some other bullshit. And that is, do you guys know Corey Taylor personally?
No, like from the internet, you know, I'm talking about no idea who you're talking about.
The Slipknot guy, the Frey probably knows. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That guy. Yeah.
I thought there was some other Corey Taylor like some fucking crypto guy that
know you're like, oh my God, it's like, it's not the
null notes of music. Is that one of the guys that implement a slidity?
So anyway, he does a concert of covers called Hated. It's recorded on YouTube.
Watch it as well, man. It's got some fucking good songs in there. That guy's amazing,
actually. He's got a fantastic voice. It's got a crypto guy named to it,
to Corey Taylor. And he's really not a dick. Oh, maybe not a crypto guy.
I've just listened to shit loads of everything, everything recently. That's just been my, the
fucking surrealness of Jonathan Higgs's lyrics is just where my head is right now.
Well, like there's a great light. Like I was listening to just before I did this,
I was just just early, I was finished off some writing work. Again, one of my many fucking gigs.
And I was listening to one of their, the least single of the first album,
Mikey's Your Boyfriend. And there's a line in it, something like,
the whole song is about an argument in a pub between a guy, the protagonist who is confronting
what is implied to be the ambiguously former lover of his girlfriend.
Right. And there's a line in it, something like, Hey, are you guys together? Oh, I've just seen
your torso on the floor. I guess you're separated. It just, his fucking lyrics just to say they're
amazing. Because if you, the lyrics don't make any sense, right? And then you, you,
the, what the thing is about the song is actually about is having a mundane fight in a pub,
probably in Oldham, because it's based in Greater Manchester. Sorry, Oldham.
Um, maybe Eccles could be Eccles, could be Wangy's bar and Eccles. Sorry, Wangy's bar and
Eccles. That was like the most hyper specific reference I've ever made. I once saw, so this
is another high specific reference. If you know who Bez is, I once shot a news article,
as a photographer, shot a news article about Bez running for political office at Wangy's bar in
Eccles, one of the strangest freelance gigs I've ever done in my entire life. Anyway,
what becomes obvious is that this is just a bar fight, right? But what actually happens while
they've been having a bar fight, they haven't been watching the news and nuclear war has broken out
between presumably Russia and the rest of the world or something. And actually, the, the pub
has just been caved in by a nuclear shockwave. And so the song is about the protagonist coming to
the realization that he is about to die because the building is collapsing, but he's sort of laughing
to himself about the surrealness of the situation. And that's quite, quite a typical sort of level
of an everything, everything song where it looks like it's a breakup song. And then you read more
closely and you're like, there's all these references to the wall disintegrating and the
people around him being ripped pieces in a nuclear fireball. I don't think they're just like angry
and fighting each other with pork use. I think they're actually are being ripped apart by a
nuclear fireball. Amazing band. Amazing band. Anyway,
DrillTweet of the Week. We're going up to the DrillTweet of the Week.
You missed one of the weeks when you were off now. That was actually a situation where I used
a DrillTweet in anger, but that was another. Okay, so the section is-
I watched when I was off. I was still watching. I was just driving.
Right. He did DrillTweet of the Second Book and there was briefly a meme on YouTube where some
of the funniest stories from the second DrillTweet book, people got the M&M voice thing. You know,
you can feed it lines and it will wrap them like M&M to read out the stories. And there's this
amazing one about DrillTweet trying to buy a car. And there's this line in it where it says something
like, the salesman took one look at me and realized that I was in no good piece of shit.
Oh, did that say? The salesman took one look at me and decided that I was not to be taken seriously.
That's the line. That's what it's. Fucking love. That's just like the story of my fucking life.
No matter what I do, I feel like that is perennially my fucking problem.
Okay. So the section is Hollywood. And the tweet is, my regular life and my Ocean's 11
fan fiction life have collided in a horrible fireball. I'm not sure I fully get one, but I'm
sure it's wisdom will reveal itself to me over time. Also, there's this, I don't know if you can
see there's a massive fly just flying around right by my head, which is really fucking.
I thought we got rid of that segment. It's, um, they keep going back. Someone keeps mentioning.
Just keeps being relevant is the problem. So, um, so what's happening this week?
A couple of network launches this week, right? Say,
No, it's launched yesterday. Oh, that's a fashion. Fashionably.
They're still not live yet. Not live. Not live yet. Yeah. Uh, wait, Nollis, right?
Is that what was? Nollis was fun too. That one was brutal. What is it? What is Nollis again?
Uh, I believe that's margin lending. Um, kind of like in the vein of Quasar where, um,
Quasar, Quasar, how we decided it's called? That's, we, we as the rest of the world,
yes, we've all decided that it's Quasar. Okay. Okay. Uh, I think, I think it's margin
lending, margin lending. Yeah. I think so. Using ICA and stuff. Okay.
Why, why was it, why was it so interesting start? The launch was hilarious because, uh,
like just a couple of random validators seem to have an infinite amount of fucking tokens.
And so, um, Genesis. Yeah. And was it a mistake? No, but like, so I can't remember the validator.
They're a real pissy cause I was like up them. But, um, one of the validators, uh, just deli,
everyone had one, one token, right? And this guy delegated like a million tokens to himself.
Not against died. Well, it's just like the whole network was just this one dude. And, um,
and then like, uh, everyone got up in and he's like, I was just testing my bots. And I was like,
I don't count on that shell. The funny thing is that that was his defense. He's like, oh,
we were testing out auto compound bots. And I'm like, so not only are you delegating a million
tokens to yourself, you're testing bots with your fucking validator key. Like that's not better,
dude. Your auto-comphone shell. It's like, that was his defense though. He's like, oh, we were
testing our bots. I'm like testing my bots. You're just fucking kicking yourself in the shin more
times. Did they run an incentive based test or how did they, how did they determine like initial
delegations and all that? I think these guys bought tokens. One of those. Yeah. I won't say who
they were. It's like the, it's like the figment style. When you see a network launch and you see
like somebody like figment, just like, you never come in after not spending any time on the network
at all in any test. Like they joined the discord like the deal. Yeah. There's one massive delegation.
You know, like that meme with the, where the guy is just cycling along happily and then he
gets a stick and then looks at it and then puts it in the spokes bicycle that is like the next
picture is on the floor. He's holding his leg going, ah, it's like that. Wasn't there another
network where like an institutional team came in super late doors and then they were the reason
it crashed on start. I feel like that happened not too long ago. It feels like it happens all the
time. I mean, it feels like it happens all the time really. It is pretty funny. What's this
fucking door hacks lately have just been rolling up and going like five minutes before the network
starts and like, hi, I'm Dora Hacks. How do I get into mainnet? They're like, come this way.
They must be buying the sets too because I think they're an apt host right now and I think they
just got pulled in right with the second preview and all that stuff. Hang on. What was that? They
just started on apt host? I thought that they, I could be wrong, but I thought she'll see we
know this or maybe Frey would know this, but I thought they were not in the original set and
then they were one of a couple that pulled in after the preview net. I think that's correct.
I seem to remember that. Yeah. So either they are, and I don't know if that's, I don't know the
history of that because if you look at the preview net performance, they were like almost dead last,
like almost dead last. So it wasn't, it was not a like, oh, shit, we got to get you in here
type of situation, I think from a performance side, but I, you know, I could be wrong.
Are they like a biggie, phallidator or something? I don't know.
I would assume so. Yeah, they're big in other echoes. They're like big pools.
Solana maybe? Was that what it was? There's something. I think they're in ETH.
It's probably ETH too. Yeah. So anyway, but I think that's right. I think that's where that's
coming from. I think there's a bunch of that, that kind of core, you know, there's enough that's
going on in those home ecosystems, but now you come to Cosmos and, you know, you bring 30 grand
to a chain and you have a decent delegation on some shit, some shit chain. Yeah. Right. So
there's been a bit of that recently where I've been going to like physical meetups where they're
more like, I mean, of course, they're like ETH focused because it's like the biggest eco
outside of Bitcoin. And it's the biggest eco really because Bitcoin doesn't seem to have like
as coherent a community almost as Ethereum. Bitcoin is just like the meme and Ethereum seems
to actually have like an inverted comm as a community. Although a lot of people seem like
they're quite like, I work in commercial property and I'm into crypto. Therefore, I hold some ETH
and some L2 tokens. That kind of is like, and I don't mean that like being a fucking penis.
Like I know everybody like this is a hobby and it's like just kind of interested in cool.
We all started just poking around the edges of it or whatever. But that kind of seems like the
average person that you kind of talk to one of those meetups is somebody who has a professional
job with a bit of extra income and they bought some L2 tokens around ETH and they maybe hold
a couple of Ethereum. It's that kind of the vibe. But the two things that are really surprising
about that were not surprising. Nobody has a fucking clue about any other ecosystem apart from
Ethereum like Cosmos, like Huda. But also just like the mechanics of staking and stuff are really
poorly understood because I guess in Ethereum, although it is proof of stake now, most people
don't really have to interact with that and like liquid staking is maybe more commonly
encountered than like the actual validator mechanics is not, most people don't have much of an
exposure to it. So that's really, really interesting because people are like, well, Ethereum is proof
of stake too. And people are just like, what's a validator? And you're like,
it's a marketing company that it's a marketing company.
Run servers and shit.
So we're just all, there was, there was, but it's the other funny thing, actually,
is people asking you, well, how does the validator company make money? And you're like,
doesn't guess work. Good timing, good luck, not good timing, because that would imply some element
of skill, I think. Right time, right place. Relationships. Yeah. Relationships.
It's the, it's the fucking artifact. It's the artifact approach, isn't it?
Speaking of relationships, check out this fucking awesome thing that I have here.
That looks like some cheap sweet man. That's fucking, hey, that is not a fucking swag.
I love that shit. The phrase spending all these hard end fucking contractor money on swag.
I know. I'm taking the dollars right out of Jeff Bezos pockets.
This swag doesn't pay for itself.
Give me a care package of swag all the way to Australia.
It was nice. I got a couple, the first me a couple items in mail, and then he sent me a very nice
note. The note is out with a handwriting analysis firm right now to figure out what the
fuck actually it says since maybe by far the worst handwriting I've ever seen anywhere by anything.
It's a collection of favorite drill tweets.
It is, it literally, it's like, it's like you, it was like, you shoved a pen in your asshole and
just sat over the, sat over the thing, just kind of wiggled your ass a little bit. It is,
I think through my wife and I, we both looked at it and then my, then my wife took,
well, you had this huge bright light on it and I'm like, all right, here's some keywords that
might be in there. See if you can actually use this. It's like, so we kind of Rosetta stoned
it backwards. Like, all right, that's what an S looks like. And then we figured it backwards.
And then now we figured out what the note was and it was very nice.
So you've built your own cipher?
We did. Yeah. It's very important. It's like, I turn it into a font.
If you use pen and paper, like habitually to write with in client meetings, if you have a
journal that's, that's, that's, you know, pen and paper, it's very important for it to be essentially
an unbreakable code. Just in that sense.
It was, man. It was, this was like, once I was in it, I was in a, I was in a meeting at a place I
worked and I, this is when I abandoned using two colors to make my notes in meetings was,
it was like some, some tender thing, that some preliminary thing. And the people that come in,
Microsoft, whoever, some integration company, whatever, they're charging you a load of money
for something you don't need. They said something and apparently, and my, my, my boss starts like
he's kicking me under the table and like, I look on my laptop and he sent me like a slack message
or something. It's been like, I can see the fucking red on your pad and everybody else can.
And literally, it's like, although my notebook is like right next to me on the table, I just
written like, what? It all caps in red at the bottom of the page. And you could like really,
I put it all across the table. You could just see it. I just like, what? And then like a metal
gear solid style exclamation. Oh, yeah. And you just like, good one, mate. Just next time, don't
fucking use red. And I was like, okay, no, the red pen is going in the bed. Like,
that's one of those consulting things too, as you start using that shit. And now the systems are
a little bit better because they won't like show notifications when you're when you're displaying
and stuff. But I remember in days, we used to have like a laptop or something. And then you get a
notification like somebody in the room would say, this is the most boring presentation I've ever
seen. And the little, it just come down the corner like bloop. And everybody would see it with their
name on it. And you just be like, oh, my God. So just miserable. I saw that the other day at a thing
where some where somebody got like the classic, hey, are you free? I've just tried to call you
twice. It's just like, yeah, they're written like a really important meeting, man. Right.
I mean, any meeting the moment is obviously going to be pretty fucking important. Let's face it.
Because, um, no, they're not smub. package question. I'm pretty sure you have a signal
message dated some fucking time ago where I said, what size are you? I think you're a medium, aren't
you? Yeah, medium. The Juno shirt was like on the limit of what I can fit over my beer gut. So
Oh, it's too too small. Yeah, just just so maybe whatever that was, just I think it was medium,
medium. Maybe UK is a small people. I don't know. I feel like this is a medium or small jumper.
And it seems to fit all right. So you were US, US medium and large and stuff are different from EU,
UK, right large and jumper here means like it has footies on it and shit.
It's a little bit jump. Sorry, me back in sweater. Yeah. He's sweater. Um, yeah, I don't know. Maybe
large. Yeah, especially if it's a hoodie. I like a baggy hoodie. Okay. What the fuck were we talking
about? I was going to send you a hoodie. You fucking dick. Well, you just had to ask. You had to ask.
So is that it for chain lunches this week? Anything else? Start? That's it.
Hey, I think it's a new trial. Oh, there's that other wasn't that wasn't there some other weird
one that there was easy? Is it Cosmos chain that that humans AI thing we were talking about where
quite a few of us had just like weird approach from their launching next week. And that's
that's launching soon, isn't it? That was the one where it was very like, we're going to launch a
thing and you should buy in and you're like, okay, but what is the product you're launching?
Mm hmm. And then maybe have a great product. I shouldn't trash talk. I'm just gonna
have to wait till it's released. Then you can try it. You can trash talk it after
May night. That's right. That's how it works. Yeah. That's correct. So yeah,
there's actually quite a lot of chain launches actually in the Cosmos now.
This is like, yeah, the bottom of the bear market market launch strategy. I mean, I guess you
can't wait, right? I guess you have to. It's kind of like dollar cost averaging. Like if you're
starting all this and you need revenue and you have to have some sort of start point. So,
but it always surprises me that that like it said, and I think I asked you this as well. No,
I always thought it was a bad time to start, but you said it was a good time to start when it's
in the doldrums. Well, you don't want to be like at the peak of a bear market of a
bull market because then your your token gets dragged down with everything when it inevitably
shits the bed. If you start the other way around, you can open with your, you know, you can hit
your target market cap that you want. And then you've only really got one way to go. Yeah. When
things turn around, you might like there's no aggressive tanking in a bear market. Like there's
not people out there just like aggressively selling the fuck out everything. They're just like selling
rewards for dick. So, you know, once the once the market turns, you want to be like,
but you want to have runways to have your mark and your your your price go up. You don't want to
like immediately shoot yourself in the foot with price go down. So yeah. And I guess you can keep a
decent token price at launch and you're not just sweating it out. That's a pretty good price.
All right. There's like a lot less participants in the ecosystem at the moment too. And I think
that like people have much lower expectations of what airdrops and shit should look like, you know,
so you can like deck people on the airdrop a little bit and you like use your 20 cents.
Like we're watching about today with that neutron thing. Holy shit. There was like,
they spent 20 minutes on this. I got 47 cents.
But like the aggressive selling as well as just like, if your airdrop is too big,
people will just sell the shit out of it into the floor. Yeah. Like I showed it with Neda.
Oh, bitch. Ben Davis. The Juno has just been slowly being burned. But I have a theory about Juno
that like that. I think that the main drag on Juno is airdrop recipients from ages ago. I think
about I talked about it last week, but Evmos is probably mainly due to like a turn in sentiment
because of that founder selling the fuck out of tokens. But it wasn't that much, right? It was
like it was like $64,000. Like it wasn't like a rediculous. It's the fear, you surfer, because
he's got 34 million tokens. Right. Right. No, I understand. I understand. Yeah. Which is like
a whole half a million or something. But I think the fear or he's trying to sell like half a million.
But the fear is that he's like, well, he's out. So he's going to dump the fuck out of them. So
yeah, it was like $365,000 worth of tokens in the wallet or something like that.
Which I mean, again, not nothing to sneeze at. And it's a big number. But there's also thin
liquidity on Osmosis with them. For sure. I mean, the thing about these numbers though is you've
got to remember that the height of Prop 16, when that kicks off, the amount of tokens into Kumi's
wallet was $120 million. Yeah. So like sometimes when I get that we're in a bear market, I get
that there's a lot of fun, I get that people are like, oh shit, man, like this one's got like
a significant portion of the liquidity for a chain is locked up in one account, one founder,
whatever. But I just can't, I think my brain has been permanently broken by the combination of
AppChain Winter and then the way that led into Prop 16. I just like, if it's not $50 million,
I'm just like, oh, it's not a bigger number, is it really?
Well, that and everybody, but there were a group in that guy with like, we were talking about Jake
last week, but with Jake's numbers and that was like in the same sentence. Like it's,
these two are exactly the same. Like, no, they're not. These numbers are far away from each other.
Like I know it's like quite literally 360,000 sounds like a big, but it's not big compared
to 6.4. Like we're doing some math here. Yeah, exactly. But hey, you know, the flip side of
this stuff is that like, I think that the market is going to turn around at some point because
that's like basic fucking economics. It will do. The question is like what opportunities are going
to be presented as we come out of that to actually build product that isn't completely shit? Like,
yeah, let's be real. A lot of stuff now is basically on life support is basically on hiatus.
Like, you know, how's on fucking hiatus at the moment because like, you know,
everybody's got day jobs, they got stuff to do. Like you can't work on something free
when you also have a nine to five, you can you can justify putting off friends and family and
doing other shit when something is paying a lot harder otherwise, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Like, more so for the other guys, I guess, because you know, I have a bit more leeway in my week,
but you know, the validated business in demands time and all this other stuff, you know.
But like, I think a lot of projects, especially the ones that are kind of bootstrapped by devs
and stuff are in that kind of same weird space where there's a lot of projects that are kind of
potentially viable with users come back to the space and I say often more users than investors,
but the two are so muddled, aren't they? But the question is like what what chains actually
like like my my feeling is that the chains that are going to actually do well in the next bull
are going to be the ones that actually have like, yeah, that kind of like use cases for users rather
than money for investors. Unlike, you know, obviously token value will increase with users
and utility. So the two can become conflated. But I think the the cause or relationship is going to
be from utility that ain't just defy first. But like it's super weird to still be in this position
where like, you know, we still have a lot of chains with the liquidity problem. Obviously,
Bendy and Co over at him less of a fucking problem over there, that's when we are jealous.
But like how you can try and position yourself well for when those things do turn around. And
that's why you like Adam accelerator is a really good idea, right? Because that's what the goal
of that program is, right? Position yourself well for the future. But like, it is hard to like,
I mean, I guess this is if you knew how to do this, you would be a business genius. And therefore,
you wouldn't have to ask these questions, right? Is like, how do you position yourself well for
the sentiment to change, right? Yeah, I think it's management. Yeah. Well, the other thing also is
what I've seen at least in some of these chains that are launching is that there's a lot of overlap
that is existing between chains or, you know, better mousetraps type of idea. And
and when you have three or four or five different platforms that do similar components for liquidity
or other types of things, the user count has to multiply at the same rate as the number of platforms,
or each of those platforms make one a percentage of what they would have if they were the only
platform to be able to provide that functionality. And so when you have three or four or five or
six chains that are launching, they're all providing some sort of structured liquidity pool
type of piece that are based on liquid staking or based on x, y, or z. If they're all doing kind of
the same thing with some, there's only so many dollars that are flowing in. And so that gets
spread across, which means that the revenue is not there for each one of those. And then you have a
higher propensity of them collectively failing, right? And so I think we joked about this like,
I don't know, it was a bunch of bunch of episodes ago, but like, sometimes cosmos, that's what they
want. Like cosmos would rather have six competing ideas all fail than one centralized idea succeed.
And I kind of think that sometimes that might play out in some of these types of things, but
I don't know, see kind of where it goes. I think the biggest drag on the cosmos ecosystem from that,
like following on from that is that like the competition between communities is so fucked
that no one wants someone else's shit to succeed. So they just shit on it. So and try and bring the
liquidity to their project. And I think collectively as an ecosystem, it's just fucking everything up.
The only strong one really is Adam and it's got nothing.
So.
Well, but that's really, I mean, that's because it's early and it has like the dollars are in there,
right? But does that, it's not a functionality question there.
Romer said, like a good chance the number of the OG app chains fail, already seeing a number of new
gen app chains coming, which fix the issues we face with the OGs. Yeah, but repeat this ad
infineium, right? So if there's always a new chain that does something that's a little bit more than
what the existing one is, and people run into it, then what you have is just a rolling wave
of chains that kills the one previous. And so I agree with that. That's a, that's kind of what
I'm trying to say as well is, is like, like when there's this competition, or there's a new one,
a new version of X, Y or Z. But if that's always there, then there's always a, there's always a
pump and dump, right? Because everybody bails out of the old one, they hop in a new one, it pumps
up, you exit out, people lose money, people make money, it dies, you go to the next one,
and there's people holding on to the old OG chain, because saying that we're, you know,
I got a bag full of tuna, right? I mean, I kind of describe it in just stock market,
but just in like a super accelerated way. Because I mean, creative destruction is like
the theory behind, you know, company creation and life cycle, albeit semi-discredited as an
economic theory, but nevertheless. Yes. But that is also based on actual
company performance. And there's nothing here based on actual company performance.
Well, is the stock market always based on company performance? Some of it, quite a lot of
things. Eventually. Eventually. It always is, it just depends on the timeline of how much
patience there is, right? Which I agree, which is similar to this.
It depends on what phase of your company, like a lot of new companies, the valuations are
like speculative because they're pre-generate. What would you call it? Like pre-revenue?
Pre-revenue. That's pre-revenue. But like established companies, and especially like
OG companies, all the valuations are based on like, you know, actual revenue announcements.
Like regular shit, right? Like GE is never, GE gets measured based on how many fucking light
bulbs and aircraft engines it makes, right? That's literally it.
Yeah. Like future valuations are done on like the companies.
So, you said that too. Like Jeff came out and actually said that on Amazon a bunch of times,
where like, they never want to turn a profit because they always want to lose money because
when you start turning a profit, then you're being measured. And if you're constantly losing,
not losing, but like you're constantly investing back in, you're raising, and you're growing,
you're in that, you're still in that mode to take over the earth. And nobody's going to,
nobody's going to question that because the future is always out there.
Once you start making profit, you start paying tax too.
Yeah. Or you, and you start getting measured on, on kind of core metrics, which nobody really
wants to be measured on, right? No, you'd rather have like a speculative multiple of 30.
But that only goes for so long, right? Eventually, I think it has to eventually,
and for every one of these businesses, that, that, that the bell tolls, right?
It might, some of those might take a long time, but Amazon, the bell's tolling, right? Like,
they still look at it. I mean, if it wasn't for EWS, like that business would be in real trouble.
It would be a great place.
Like, like Tesla is still like their proper company now that makes stuff and just barely
turn a profit on purpose, I think. But their, their, their price is still way speculative
compared to what their revenue is. And that, I think that's still on the promise of like
self-driving fleet of fucking shareholders. I also think they're like the super chargers are a huge
moat. That, that is such, that was like, it's so difficult to compete with that.
Big brain idea, that shit. That, that is such a freaking moat, man. But now they're starting to
open it up, which is, which I think is the US, I think it's the US government forcing that a
little bit, but because they're, I think, Corson, maybe mainland Europe, I think they lost an
anti-competition thing that might, I might have imagined that, but I think there was like an
anti-competition thing in, yeah, not just in the US, but I think several regulators have been like,
not sure about that lads.
I don't remember exactly what it was in the US, but I think it was, it was something related to the,
there's the $7,500 tax rebate exists in the US still, but that's only for cars that are sourced
in the United States, like built in the US. So Tesla is one of the very few ones like Rivian and
whatever else that are made here. But I thought part of that was based and the breakout of what
dollar amount car was always under, like it had to be a below a certain amount or above a certain
amount, I forget what exactly what it was. But I think the opening of the supercharger was a
negotiation point around changing that structure. So that means Tesla can sell a Model 3 with a
7,500 discount for less money and be much more competitive, but they have to open up supercharters.
So like, which is actually good for the federal government, that's a good way to break down that
mode too. Yeah, smart. So I guess the other thing I kind of think, well, I kind of like,
one of my big things about why all this tech is interesting, particularly smart contracts is the
ability to build like arbitrary incentive systems. And like in those cases, like when you're building
an economic system, maybe you do want a token, right? Because it's a little bit like going to a
seaside amusement arcade, you want to play time crisis to you've got to get some tokens, right?
They're not worth anything when you leave the amusement arcade, you can only play time crisis
to with them, but you need them, then they're just like a, you know, what token, right? And you can
build it all sorts of incentive systems around that, but eventually you got to cash them back out to
real money. And it's that kind of it's the point where there's not an expectation from users that
you need to recycle the imaginary money back into actual exchangeable workable currency.
That is, I think, the problem with a lot of these systems, because people are just entering into a
chain and sort of an imaginary economy with a map, often imaginary utility and then holding.
And that kind of speculative cycle occurring over and over and over and over and over again,
is actually like incredibly detrimental to not only the idea that those could be functioning
economies, but also that they could build utility of their own. And so I'm almost like one of the
things I've been sort of interested in recently, and this is obviously there are other ways of
breaking this down like Rahmah and Ben are talking in the chat about atomic swaps and
like essentially more fungible assets via IBC. I've also obviously been reading a lot of stuff
recently about CBDCs. And there's some really interesting models around digital cash,
where specifically things are cash like as in they are semi anonymous at the point of
having them, they're issued to you and then they're recycled after use. So there's no account
abstraction again for privacy reasons. And I think there's some quite interesting things about
that model, which mean that the fungibility of the asset is completely derived by the fact that
at some point, and this is also how you regulate it by the way, because we're talking about regulated
CBDCs, is that at some point you need to go to a money services business as we call them,
I assume they're called a similar thing in the States or a bank, and you say, I have five
imaginary internet pounds, here you go, and they go great, and they literally recycle them,
they're gone from circulation. And that though those unique IDs will never be seen again,
that business can issue them because on their internal ledger, they know how many there are
and somewhere, all of those money services businesses have a ledger, they know how many coins
is the max supply, but the number that are in supply obviously is not always the max,
right? So they recycle and they reissue them. But that kind of, it kind of leads you to an
interesting situation where you go, okay, well, if you're going to take this regulator thing,
right, and then go send it via IBC, what are you going to do? Well, your IBC client situation
is probably going to be a recycler of some kind by the same measure, right? Because you've always
going to have to reissue and recycle the tokens out of use. When they move out of use, they always
have to be recycled. So you start looking at the situation where you can move a representation
into a different ecosystem, but the way its fungibility works is totally different. And then
you're like, is it even the same asset anymore? And what happens if you bring it back out of
that other ecosystem into the other one, and then it gets issued to you, but then you can't
recycle it and to fear it. There's just these, I think like as soon as you start thinking about,
okay, at some point you need real money, like, and maybe all of the stuff we're doing,
maybe all of this stuff we're doing is the equivalent of a vast network of seaside amusement
arcades. And we're just validating different versions of time crisis. Maybe, you know, Juno's
time crisis two, the classic, maybe, I don't know, Stargaze's time crisis three, pretty good,
but some of the missions weren't as good as time crisis two. I don't know what time crisis four is,
answers in the comments. The point is that we have this vast amusement arcade, right? And we
have all these tokens to play all these different games, but at the moment, or we don't want to
play time crisis because apparently we're weird. We're an old lady. This actually may be discriminatory
towards old people, whatever they vote Brexit, I don't care. I'm going to go play the two penny
machine and try and win some two pennies. Although that was my sense because that's already fear
currency. Okay, I'm going to go try and win a prize on one of those ticket machines where you
get a lot of tickets. And I want to turn those back in a cash. But yeah, it's weird. So I don't
know. I feel like we're kind of in that situation, but there's no way I've ever taken your money and
leaving half the time because all of those use cases, like the important thing is the economic
system, not the not the fucking currency you're doing it. And if it was all USDC, I think it would
be fine. I think that's the thing maybe that terror got right. The more I think about it,
anniversary of the terror collapse. Yeah, for the average user, maybe the stablecoin is the
fucking universe brain idea. Like maybe that is the thing that's the thing that ties it all together
is is the stablecoin is the CBDC. And you just enter into for a very short period of time,
to use a particular use case, you enter into the economic system of a chain to do the activity you
want to do as a user and then you exit straight back into a representation of fear, whether that's
then recycled, however the fungibility mechanism works, whether it works like digital cash,
whether it works like someone else, I don't know. I'm just I don't know. I'm just beginning to think
that like every chain having its own token is maybe not even necessary. Like or if it's necessary,
it's only necessary in a very short term way to do a really specific thing as a user.
Or it's time boxed by the length of time of the thing. Because you know, staking, liquid staking,
it's like a bond, isn't it? It's like a bond or it's like getting
my point is derivatives and things exist like that in the wider financial world.
But then you do you have a period of time like an ISO is a good example or a savings account
where you can't withdraw straight away. But I guess even those are denoted in fear, aren't they?
They don't have like such a flexible value. So I don't know. It's really interesting because
there's obviously something super compelling about the tech. I think the ability to program
money is just so revolutionary. There's this I think there's this increasing disconnect in my
head between like the actual the payments. The fact that none of this shit works for payments.
Well, I mean, that's what we were talking about that last week, right? That's
we keep shuffling tokens around in these complex DeFi ways. But the utility of those has to be
there at some point, right? Like there has to be to your point, like whether that's payments or
something similar that like there has to be something that's beyond just shuffling a to b
and back and forth and blah, blah, blah. So I mean, if you look at it from the perspective
of the real world, like companies don't have their own token, right? And they do just fine.
Maybe we should be building systems where we actually do use like a common stable and then
build the revenue models out from that. But I mean, that would affect the whole get rich on
launch thing, right? With founder tokens, founder bags? Well, and companies do have their own token,
right? It's called like shares. But I don't know, I would push back against the idea that a lot of
chains don't need their own tokens. I think that I think there's an argument to be made that they
don't. But I think that there's more archangery that they do. In my opinion, one of the coolest
things, you know, crypto is good for is, is funding open source. And so if you are funding
open source through tokens, like, there's kind of like two arbiters there, right? So you got,
you know, a currently working example, which would be like that, the basic attention token,
right? You can pay open source contributors through that. But then you have to go through them as an
arbiter, them being like the the bat protocol. Yeah, Ben Davis said tokens are just the way we
all get rich and go to the beach. Yes, absolutely. That's right. Which is why all chains need one.
Uh-huh. But I mean, noble doesn't have its own token really like technically it does.
But it's not issued. I don't know. Noble is kind of a weird thing anyway.
Doesn't have it? Is it? Yeah, it's not USDC. Is it like, you know, there's there's a noble.
No, they don't really have like a token token. I think every validator just has like one token
and then there's no inflation. It's just to create blocks, right? Is that really one of this?
Yeah, but then one even set. But you know, isn't nobles basically probably just going to
like a share isn't it? The noble one. Because it's like a it's like a share. It's almost like an
NFT because if you don't have the token, you can't be a validator. So implicitly, the token
is like a stake in ownership. It's like proof of stake and like a really
was not it's not distributed proof of stake or decentralized proof of stake or any of the
the DP the DS that could be in DPOS. It's almost like a pure. I have I have no idea
about noble or how it works. But from the outside looking in, it looks a lot like they selected
some partners that are probably going to be I'm assuming paid IRL outside of the crypto world
and that that chain exists solely for the security of the USDC. So I'm pretty sure they
tightly will control those fucking handful of tokens that are there so that they can control
who's providing security to that chain. Because circle make fucking shitloads of money. They don't
they don't need like a token. They're already rich. They just need like a highly secured
chain that they fully 100% control. Right. They don't they don't care about the token.
No, they're they're no, they want use. Right. So they want to they want to lower barriers of use.
That's that's what they are. Right. So this is a this is a lowering the barrier of use.
Right. Like nobody wants to go through bridges and bullshit. Right. So I mean,
to be fair to like USDC and circle like I mean, I've had always no luck using their services.
And I think they're shit. But get me up. Yeah, but at least like there is a weird situation
which their profit motive is pretty well aligned with providing a good that is actually
pretty well needed. The question is whether or not they are actually backed in the way that
they say they are because there are just so many fucking asterisks around USDC. Like there is no way
I would have that on the company books for more than an hour or two. Absolutely top end.
But the same was with USDT as well. And they sort of just kept all this shit quiet for a while.
Well, and man, they were everyone was calling the rug card on USDT like back in 2017 when
they when they watched everyone was just fucking all over those poor bastards. And everyone was
yelling at them about, you know, audits and all this type of stuff. And then when they finally
released reports with them having non cash assets, everyone was fucking pissed. And now they're
turning like, I don't know if they were rolling the dice, they seem like pretty solid investments to
me. But now they're I think they posted a profit of like $1.4 trillion or something like that,
or billion billion dollars. It would be million not trillion. Yeah, trillions a lot. No, 1.4 billion,
I think is what they they posted as a profit. So you know, now they're building a war chest,
I think they're fine. Presumably USDC have the same strategy. When they launched those things
back in like the day 15, 16, 17, wherever it was, I thought it was fucking genius. You're taking like
everyone's money, you're not paying them any interest, and you're you're taking that money
and investing it like it could there couldn't be and like in large volumes that could end.
Presumably those businesses didn't actually need that much startup capital because once you create
the system, then all you really need is investment bankers. So yeah, it's a winner of a idea. And
I would happily have USDC and USDT on my book. I don't think they're anywhere near failure.
The baffling thing to me right about USDC is how I mean, I get systemic risk, systemic risk and
contagion of the actual answer to what I'm about to say. That's the reason why you say,
Frey, you're fucking idiot. Okay, amongst other things. But I also still kind of don't understand
why a major government with a currency is traded extensively on forex markets, dollar, euro,
yen, pound, something like that, doesn't look at USDC and just go, fuck man, we could literally
spin up a fucking chain tomorrow and literally just tell a bunch of banks, get four or five banks
that are big, that are the kind of banks that if they were looking like they were going to fail,
the government would bail them out anyway and just say to them, look, you guys have,
because of how MMT works, you guys know what your credit line is in terms of the amount of
currency you can issue, right? Take 5% of that liquidity for now, we'll ramp it up every year
by 5%, take 5% of that liquidity and allow it because again, the recycling model for digital
cash is not that like we're squint and it's not that different to how credit lines and extension
work in terms of actually expanding the credit base of how much money is in the economy, right?
So you could just say to them, look, issue 5% of your liquidity via credit as imaginary internet
money and it's out there in the world until it returns to you and we'll count it as kind of
out there and liquid until we see it come back in and get recycled or reissued or however that works
and if that works, we'll increase it to 10% next year, but you don't have to do that,
you don't have to use all of that percentage, but that's the amount that we'll let you play with
and it would be fucking wildly profitable, of course it would. And also, I hate to point out
the fucking obvious as well, like from I guess like a purchasing power question, but like as
somebody who lives in a country that's currency got completely fucked by bad decisions by old people
and politicians a few years ago, if you want your currency to become more in demand, a really
fucking great way would be to increase its utility by embracing like a massive emerging market and
just start dipping your feet into it over maybe a five-year period and just give it a bit of
liquidity, see what happens, give it a bit more liquidity. You've got this like network of issuing
credit already, like that's exactly how modern financial systems work, like you're already issuing
imaginary money, this is just a different kind of imaginary money. That's the thing I was,
I kind of understand, you look at how wildly profitable on paper at least, something like
Circlis and I would be looking at that as a central bank and going, fuck man, this could really help our
balance of payments if we like, or a purchasing power of our currency, less of an issue for the
euro because they obviously have huge problems with the different disparity of the economies
within the euro zone. So like maybe they just don't need any more fucking headaches and I appreciate
the ECB might just be like, fuck no, fine. But like the UK is in a fucking position where we need
DGEN options on the table fucking quick. So it's no surprise that the Bank of England is
like doing feasibility studies on this stuff. But I mean, like Circlis has done the feasibility
study for them, which is Circlis isn't even backed and people trust it. It's not even backed, like
we all know it's not backed, it's not really, they say they're backed. Well, some part of it is backed.
Some part of it is backed, but we all know it's not fucking backed. It's not backed by a government
with a fucking aircraft carrier. No, it's not. You're backed by an aircraft carrier,
worst case scenario. Or an old man with a gold crown. You know, worst case scenario,
you melt down the crown jewels, you pay your debts. Or you just invade Finland or something. That
worked really well for the Soviets right here. Actually, of course, you wouldn't invade Finland.
That's a really bad idea. You always lose a win to war in Finland. You invade Norway because they've
got oil and the majority of their population centers are on the coast. Smart. They're going to
land into the interior and then wage a guerrilla war and then you'd be back to square one.
NATO is not good at guerrilla warfare or counter-insurgency, I think is the conclusion there.
So my money would be on the Norwegians.
How, what kind of, what kind of diatribe did you just go on?
It was like 22 minutes. I'm going to have to cut that down to like 45 seconds.
Started monologuing. You started to become syndrome from the big criggles.
We got to go longer tonight because I got to cut out 20 minutes.
Yeah. In the potty, in the potty, there's just going to be like this director's cut and it'll be like,
you surper just stepping in and you go, let me just fucking like, you know,
somewhere, 45 minutes.
I'd play a thing, but I know we get YouTube banned for it, so I can't do it.
We haven't played anything this epi that will like make your life difficult in the cut room.
Maybe we need to wake up our audience.
Oh, Schultzie, tell us what was going on with a new berry. There's a new berry, right?
Yeah, but I think it's still on the hash hash. So we'll have to go with the next week.
Oh, is it? I thought there was a kid about it.
It wasn't on Twitter?
Yeah, it wasn't on Twitter.
I know what you're talking about. This is hash hash.
No, it's not.
It is not hash hash.
It's fine. Everything's fine.
You step it.
Oh, you're full of shit because sometimes you step it gets up in a hurry from his chair when
he's had a couple of drinks. He gets a little bit of a head rush and he looks like.
I just saw in a public forum, I was clicking around like an asshole.
Yeah, they've mentioned the name of it, but they've only released binaries for fixes as far as I've
seen. You don't actually see source code for what the issue is.
I don't give a shit about that. Just tell us what.
We're not going through source code on this thing.
Just tell us the details of the problem.
How do I exploit it? Can I make any money?
How can I make some money?
It's called Huckleberry. That's the new one.
Who picked that? Who's responsible for that?
Yeah, I don't know.
Who picked Berryformal?
Ben, you need to join in and tell us.
Who picks that shit? That's awful.
I don't know about these berries. I'm kind of sick of berries.
They're a lot of work.
We should do like they should do after the nuts like they should do what Harlem Pepper did.
Macadamia nut, cashew nut.
Imagine if the people who were having these exploits disclosed to them were discovering
these exploits. We're actually assholes.
What'll be broke now?
Bustachia.
Wow. I think a lot of us already are broke.
So what if just one of these teams that they're working with to patch, we're like,
oh, wait a minute. I see what I can do with this.
Ben, that's kind of what happened.
Yeah. The honest answer is that a lot of the bugs are hard to exploit,
so people can't exploit them.
The Cosmos SDK is inherently complex.
The number of people that have the knowledge to exploit these things in the time frame
available is relatively small. So the ones that you see out in the wild are usually chain holds
because that's the easiest way to lock up the SDK. But it obviously funds are safe anyway.
And then on a couple of occasions where somebody has successfully exploited,
the chains usually patched itself to roll back that change in the ledger.
Chain just became sentient, patched itself.
Well, no, but chains have literally stopped and corrected
like particular smart contract exploits and stuff. Yeah.
People have just changed the ledgers to say that Attacker didn't have the funds anymore.
That definitely happened.
And was it Esmos or Osmosis?
That was a thing.
I think it was Osmosis, right?
That's why Secret 2 from Secret 2 to Secret 3.
Secret swap was hacked and the hackers pulled all the liquidity out of Secret Finance
and they couldn't figure out how to bridge it back to ETH.
So it was able to be shut down before they could bridge out.
But I have a very bad fact.
I got AxlUSDC on Juno, but it's bridged through Stargaze.
I don't know how to get this out of here. I'm four IBCs away. What do I do?
Fuck this machine.
Spaghetti IBC.
I think I got spaghetti IBC. Maybe that's the security we need.
Just spaghetti IBC all this shit away.
I got to go through what? I don't understand this shit.
Big coin rollback.
What?
So we can't talk about Huckleberry.
That's the only piece of Cosmos thing we talk about this whole fricking podcast.
Can't talk about it.
Yeah, can't talk about it.
I think there's even only one or two chains that have released an update for it.
And so.
All I heard was that it was minor and it will be patched.
So it's minor for most chains.
Yes.
It's if we were a year down the line, it would probably not be minor.
And I think the bed would have been shat.
But as it is.
What would time have to do with it?
What's that?
What is time has to do with it?
I'm not going to say because it would probably actually reveal the exploit.
That's interesting.
Well, what's interesting too about this.
It's based on time.
Put that in the drill tree.
It's almost like state is the problem.
Time is always the problem because when it finds its way into the state machine,
everyone gets different hashes.
And the time goes by differently on different machines.
By any source of any source of non determinism.
I have a fun story that's like not Huckleberry related.
But are there fun stories that are Huckleberry related?
Actually, you know what?
I can throw in a fun story Huckleberry related.
All right.
My waiting.
Okay.
You fucking fuck my story.
Yeah.
Hold on.
I need to because you asked a question.
You thought it was rhetorical and it's not because I can answer it.
What was the question?
It was a fucking statement.
It was a segue with a and I am throwing it right under the bus.
So I can say what I want to say.
I like it.
My wedding cake is going to be almond like cake-ing and then Huckleberry cream on the inside.
Oh, that's the fun bit.
Now you can tell your story.
Hasmose all the way through.
It's not very cream.
It's I don't know.
Huckleberries and it's got like a buttercream mix.
What the fuck?
Huckleberry is a real thing?
Like is it berry?
Yeah.
I think it's like it's like a blackberry.
But yeah, not.
But not.
So was Dragonberry.
I thought Huckleberry was just the Huckleberry Finn, which is the guy, you know.
No, you silly Sally.
So whenever in Tombstone, whenever we are silly, Sally,
silly, Sally.
Yeah.
No, Huckleberry is a real thing.
It's very good.
I like them a lot.
All right.
You can show us.
All right.
You're I guess.
Give a story questions.
Like, aren't you already married?
How can you get a light fucking wedding cake?
Well, yeah.
I mean, so yeah, I am already married because we are lobed.
But we are lobed with like her side of the family.
So like we did have a kind of like we went to the park and signed papers and we're like,
all right, we're married.
And now we're going to do my side of the family.
And we're going to have also some of her family.
So we're going to do a little, little more for this.
They know.
Everybody knows.
OK.
So everybody knows this is.
Everybody knows this is.
Everyone thinks it's like this is the real thing.
Does anybody think they're showing up to an actual wedding or they?
I mean, it's a what?
I mean, that's not a bad word.
But they think that you're that you are not married.
There's anybody everybody's showing up knows that you're married.
Everybody knows we're married.
Yeah.
For sure.
Well, and it's also like an excuse to get house stuff done because we're going to have
it in our backyard.
So like I've got my deck that needs rebuilt.
And so instead of, you know, putting money towards, I don't know, a venue or whatever,
we're just going to have a backyard and then I'm going to rebuild my deck with said difference.
You should have your wedding at your house and then just invite free labor over.
Oh, that's what's happening.
Yes.
That's exactly what's happening.
It's a lot of work to have a wedding at your house.
So it's not going to be a full wedding.
It's just going to be like a ceremony, really.
So I'm working there.
It's the part of the very is a bill.
Barry that I can't remember every nobile.
Barry.
But the there is some it has some dialect names in English, which I guess is when people
went over to America.
It was called a hurdle.
Barry, which presumably is how Huckleberry.
What?
I'll say one more time or a portal.
Barry, Huckleberry with a W Barry.
The phrase is like deep in research now, not knowing what a Huckleberry was.
I was deeply disturbed by now.
I mean, like I'm not great at plants and and whatnot.
I'm okay at trees sometimes.
Like, like I get really confused by what's a lime tree and what's a beach tree and that.
Put that on your Twitter profile.
I'm not great at plants, but I'm pretty good at trees.
Pretty good at trees.
Like, yeah, but then like things like a lot of trees like classic English hedgerow trees
are really like quite obvious a lot of the time what they are.
I guess the problem is like Americans, you've got so many good trees.
Like you do have like quite a lot of unspoiled nature, whereas like in the UK,
I like well, loads of things are fucked bird populations fucked.
But lots of nature nokes.
There's a lot of nature nokes.
There's a lot of fucked here, too, because we're getting a lot of like beetles and shit
from Asia, which I'm sure you guys are as well.
But we get a lot of lanternflies and ferrule hogs.
No, well, not around us, but yeah, they're around.
That's like South, isn't it?
That's good eating in West.
Good eating.
The ferrule hogs.
We have a problem where we have too few ferrule hogs generally in Europe.
I don't think that's a problem.
We have a problem of too few ferrule wolves, in my opinion.
You know what?
No, I retract that.
It's not an opinion.
It's fact.
We have too few ferrule wolves as well, but you need the wolves and the hogs because
basically a lot of tree saplings take root because they take root where hogs, well, not hogs,
you see wild boar, or depending on your country, they were actually different sub.
Doesn't matter.
But they disturb the soil, which allows the tree saplings to actually take root and then
large herbivores, like big cows, or predecessors of the modern cow, tread the saplings or the seeds
into the ground.
And then they poo, obviously, because they're big herbivores.
And then the poo first lizes the trees, and that's how you end up with ancient woodlands,
basically.
And that's why you just don't get a lot of that regrowth into what would be really
a healthy woodland ecosystem without the combination of hogs and large herbivores.
But it's also how you can get quite, it's obviously very low intensity farming, but it's
how you can also get quite sustainable beef and stuff like that, it's by combining hogs.
I keep saying ferrule hogs, and I just want to say ferrule hogs, but I gather anyway that's how
you would do it.
Things like in the Netherlands and stuff, they've done a lot of studies on this sort of stuff.
CBT- Well, similarly, a lot of people don't appreciate how destructive a lot of herbivores
are. If you go and kind of fall like a herd of elk, man, they annihilate everything that
they compass. Entire hill size will just be destroyed. So you'll see a lot of environmental
spin, like, oh, we've got to save the elk and the deer. Meanwhile, they're not understanding that
like-
CBT- We need predators for them too.
CBT- Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The argument is that we don't need wolves because we need to protect
the deers and the elk. But they're so destructive that having a balance or a check would have
helped the situation. And hunters, long story, but there aren't enough hunters, so they're not able
to make that difference.
CBT- Yeah. Well, we have so many deer in deer parks in the UK, and then they literally would
die in winter. Every year there's deer cull because otherwise their populations are too big to survive.
So they just get killed. And it's like one of the most, as a result, it's really sustainable meat.
If you do want to eat meat, you just go after a deer cull and you're like, hey, venison,
it's relatively cheap, it's organic, and they literally would die anyway. But the problem is
the deer population is actually too big anyway. So yeah. Anyway, fun with deer.
CBT- We've covered the gamut. Cosmos. Cosmos Maladay podcast. Welcome to G-Mos.
CBT- Yeah, right. What the fuck?
CBT- I think Noel had a story he wanted to tell, and he's been looking very impatient up in the
corner.
CBT- I thought he told it. CBT- Fuckin' time passed. But hey, didn't Penumbra
or Numbra have the stable test net now or something instead of doing a new test net every week?
I saw an answer to that number.
CBT- I think it came out today. And I think this is their official launch of their private
dex. Because that's what Penumbra is, right? It's effectively a private dex for the start.
I think today was the start of the...
CBT- Shielded swaps now execute against the first complete version of Numbra dex engine.
Is it Penumbra or Numbra?
CBT- Penumbra.
CBT- Penumbra?
CBT- Yeah, Penumbra because it's P-N, not P-N.
CBT- Yeah, so it looks like they're firing on all cylinders. I mean, it could have been a silent P
for fuck's sake.
CBT- Typically, it's only a silent P. If it's P, then immediately followed by N. If there's a
vowel in between, then you pronounce the vowel. But there isn't a P-N.
CBT- I didn't major in like fucking English.
CBT- It's P-E-Numbra.
CBT- Oh, it is P-E-N. Oh, okay. Yeah.
CBT- Sorry.
CBT- Okay, so there's no E then we're talking silent P situation.
CBT- Also because they're optical phenomenon, aren't they? So it's Umbra and Penumbra.
So you can infer that Pen is probably... I actually don't know this, but I would strongly guess that
Pen is a Latin pre-modifier to describe the difference between Umbra and Penumbra,
like the bit around. And therefore, Pen will be pronounced the Latin way, which would be hard
letters because it's like just like Latin, generally Latin things. Like, there's not a hard and fast
rule. It's been a long time since I did Latin at school, but they generally are very hard sounds,
aren't they? So if you're going to pronounce it like Caesar, we always say Caesar, but it's actually
Kaiser, isn't it? It's how it would be pronounced in Latin. So if you see P-E-N, you're like,
it's probably Pen rather than any softer way of putting it. Hey, the...
CBT- Or like, or like, Kaiser and Quasar.
T-Quasar. It's not Quasar, probably. Or they...
It's quite... Quasar be Greek? I don't know. Answers in the comments. I don't know.
CBT- That's good.
T- Like and subscribe for the answer next week.
CBT- Yeah, next week we'll look up word histories. What's that? Tim, I always get mixed up between
the ones with bugs and the ones with word history. Etymology?
T- Yeah, etymology. That's word history.
CBT- Oh, is that... Oh, shit.
T- Of course, sure.
CBT- Let's hear this one.
T- Fuck. All right.
T- Etymology is cool, all right?
CBT- On our agenda for this week, we are 90 or 60, 80 something minutes in. We've not talked
about Huckleberry. We've not talked about anything else. We have talked about deer population.
We've ignored Null stories. We've shit on the cosmos mostly. Is there anything else?
We miss anything? Etymology is bugged. That's what I thought. Thanks, Funtapunky.
T- Anything else to add?
CBT- We ranked the tool albums as well. That was good.
T- That's true.
CBT- I think that was both pre-show. We're talking about tool pre-show.
T- Another thing worth bearing in mind is that some people have taken MIDI transcriptions of
tool and run them through the N64 sound engine.
CBT- Oh, yeah. I'll put those a couple of those on the show.
T- That's really good. So you can go find your favorite tool album and listen to it in
N64 mode. I'm going to put it out there and say that I think Latteralus reveals it's true genius
as the best tool album through its N64 version. I can't get enough of the parabola.
CBT- 10,000 days on that little thing was really good too though.
T- Yeah. I feel like one of the right in two or maybe the pot was pretty decent.
Also, the pot, if you've never seen the John Q cover version, the drummer,
where he's just like a geologist or something. He uploads really occasional drum covers to
YouTube once a year or something for songs that he really wants to learn. And there's a great
video a few years ago where he was just like, the pot is pretty much tools hardest song in my book.
I'm going to try and learn it. He learns it in films.
CBT- Is it really?
T- There's a couple of bits of very complicated compound time, is my understanding,
like in that bit in the middle. And so just getting the timing nailed is just super hard.
And also all of the, just the fact is also very technical. But the combination of all
the poly rhythms. And there's-
CBT- There's a reason why he's called the octopus, that's all I'm saying.
T- I like Kari.
T- There's basically a moment where the poly rhythms largely end and you're on the home
straight of the song. It's just after the breakdown. And this video is amazing because
like obviously you don't know watching the video. I happened to have watched the making of thing
before I watched the video. So I knew he'd taken him like 100 hours to learn this.
And he had done like 40 takes or something like it was, and he was like,
this is the last take. I can't do this anymore. And he gets to the point where it's like,
there's the one more bit of the breakdown to do and then you're on the home straight.
If you get through that, you're going to get through the rest of the song.
And it looks like he's about to fuck it. And then he just gets back control, pushes on through
the breakdown bit. And you see his face, the second he realizes he's done it.
And then there's a moment where you have like, I think it's like literally two to three beats
rest or something. It's when the...
And then there's one, two, three, four, but a bit of that rhythm. It's really similar to the
break in Parabola, actually, which I hum there. It's not the same riff, but it is a similar break
figure. And he just goes for it. Yolos and fucking flips his drumsticks.
Because he's going to fuck it up. But that obviously doesn't. It's just amazing. But this is
like one of the most pure moments of enjoyment I've seen from any musician ever. And it's worth
watching that video just for the moment where he realizes he's done it. He realizes he's done it.
And then he decides to gamble and throws his drumstick anyway. And then he's through it. And
he does actually finish it and you're like, fucking hell, man, I would not have thrown that drumstick.
I wouldn't have done it. Sounds like a true DJ. And he should probably be a validator.
Yeah, small balls wouldn't throw the drumstick.