1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,760
You are angry today you know you really are i think we need to send us some kind of anger management on the fucking brand but from you know fucking australian.

2
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:20,200
Welcome to game of notes weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent validator teams.

3
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:32,680
Welcome to game of notes weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent validator teams guaranteed to be the angriest podcast you hit this week or your shit coins back.

4
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:40,960
So now why are you so angry this week is it because we dragged you out of bed to come back on the podcast.

5
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:46,440
We want to be a guest this week it looks like you're broadcasting from Noah's closet where are you exactly.

6
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:59,000
I mean melvin i don't have an office in melbourne some like in the fucking spare room oh my god i think i'm angry because like i'm sitting in a fucking terrible chair for a week.

7
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:12,120
And you know for the for the foreseeable future i'm gonna be in this shit full fucking chair and you know i'm angry about that as well as like i just woke up to about.

8
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:18,880
400,000 fucking page of duty notifications that wouldn't shut up all night so.

9
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,520
Could i suggest you just buy a new chair.

10
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,360
That's really those bars are pretty low for you to get angry.

11
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:33,560
I mean is your old page of duty notifications onto better levels.

12
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:44,200
Why do i feel very close to putting machines in maintenance mode so i didn't have to listen to the fucking complaining yeah that's eight hour maintenance that's it boom.

13
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,480
It's like a shortcut over here what changes it oh passage eight hour maintenance.

14
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,440
It's out time right just.

15
00:01:53,440 --> 00:02:06,880
Just let it die anyways fucking turn off notifications let it die tender duty i just merged a PR that makes it so severity levels work so you can set all those things that are knowing you to severity low.

16
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:18,360
And it won't even tell you it'll be like me what did you change so it didn't work before if you set severity levels and tender do you before while they're in the config.

17
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:25,080
They weren't actually tied to anything it would read it and be like that's nice and dump it out the side i've actually gone through and implemented it in tender duty.

18
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:36,760
Okay i don't think i was even i was just assigning different and page duty endpoints like you have a default and then i would use like a my default was like hi and then my media ones i would just add to shit you know.

19
00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:47,920
You mean or is there an actual there's actual severity now you can actually say for different types of notifications you can actually set all this is high priority low priority this you can basically completely ignore.

20
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:54,560
Can you backport the one point oh that i won't do i probably could but i won't.

21
00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:07,320
That i had a similar cell to the two point since i upgraded to v2 i haven't had a single fucking notification from page duty perfect because of performance.

22
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:17,680
Don't work i don't know why i think we had a problem where i think i did like a temporary pause or something for the day that i was in the hospital where i was just like.

23
00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:32,520
What the like i'm not in a position where i can do anything about this anyway so i got i got some there were people covering anyway so for almost everything i didn't need to be there and so i did what i thought was a temporary pause.

24
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:44,240
And then i got a week later or something there was something that actually was a lock up on like a test now something where we have notifications and i got a text with.

25
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:54,320
Which is like i get to we have a dead man switch type thing on some things where after a period of time it just sends me a text and goes hey something looks fucked.

26
00:03:54,440 --> 00:04:03,960
And you might not have had a notification and i got one of those like a few days later and i was like yeah this stuff has just been for the let not the notes but the page duty set up was just.

27
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:13,080
So fucked and have been done happen like i basically just completely broken it like disabled the whole lot which was dumb but so i'm gonna try to sleep.

28
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:21,440
Don't do maintenance on your page duty set up while exhausted is the moral of that story have you just moved to a standing desk yeah.

29
00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:29,200
Yeah and like torson fucking cables out of the wall in the process just getting a rough morning just.

30
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:39,200
The mirror behind you is very exciting for sure i can't stop looking at you behind you because it's just captivating.

31
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:47,600
It's a good thing is that you got to get back on otherwise it would just be completely disorientating.

32
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:58,160
Yeah it's you know it's not ideal i was thinking about actually putting like you know some green film on all of the mirrors and then putting in a nice background.

33
00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:07,800
Okay yeah i'm a king or what i call i used to do green screen yeah yeah i used to do when i was on one particular contract where.

34
00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:20,280
The other people had recently good sense of humor i got a a photo where it's a photo from the front of a jet fighter like canopy going backward and then.

35
00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:34,000
Yeah did a similar thing and then always just took my calls dead center so just look like i was in the car like like a very very childish joke but just always dead and just joining every cool from the cockpit of a jet fighter.

36
00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:47,440
What my car so what my car did that previously but with the stars star trek captain seat so he was always in the captain seat can see behind him i was like man that's brilliant i love it.

37
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:53,000
She even better and now i'm annoyed i didn't think about.

38
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,760
Okay there's a there's a thing on tiktok where oh my god is he dying.

39
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,760
The camera i love it when someone's dying in the camera stops he's like fuck.

40
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,240
What happened to explode fix it.

41
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:16,480
On the tiktok is that guy that fucking rides around on his on his push black with green screen behind him saying that yes big big tiktok fans.

42
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:21,640
Huge you should really so i always stay as a website it's.

43
00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:35,680
I'm not leaving out sorry i got distracted i got distracted by jakes doing a twitter space but it's at twenty two hundred utc which is like totally unacceptable i was like.

44
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:44,680
I was tweeting drama no job you can't do this during g on time fucking bullshit what's going on i think about other.

45
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:50,280
Come on here exactly i'll be a count up.

46
00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:55,400
This is not cool man i mean i'm not respectable.

47
00:06:55,400 --> 00:07:07,440
You're by far the spiciest and angry as guests we were trash like this like i'm pretty respectable.

48
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,440
I'm sorry.

49
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,440
Yep.

50
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:25,280
All right this is a i like this no guy we should get more more often so i mean we actually have we actually have some topics for this week but it kind of looks like we've landed on the stargaze spice is number one.

51
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:46,040
So we what would life be with that little bit of spice hey so spicy though it's pretty good like quality like he's the drama it's not like this role well i guess to me who you are jake probably is not a great time right now i think jake is probably fighting to be this role drama.

52
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:59,960
I mean but apparently he gets to think it's visual drama all the way to the bank and that's a good place to be i mean i mean six millies fucking not bad i like the way you put it was you fray you know.

53
00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:06,520
Take six million out give thirty six k back that's i think you said that if it was me.

54
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:18,280
I would probably respond to the twitter hey i would go to a cash point i can do this in america i would take about five thousand dollars in ones i see me still do that maybe cash points to give you ones anymore.

55
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:26,640
I would go home and speak we're talking about evening showers versus evening bath before the show because we're of course very clean people.

56
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:42,000
I would put all of those one dollars into my bath i would get into the bath i would then take a picture and i'll post on twitter saying here is what i did with your foundation money and then i would delete twitter.

57
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:57,560
So how would it be though would like would it be like your legs are up and then you have like some cash right on your junk to protect yourself for safety reasons or like how tasteful would this be.

58
00:08:57,560 --> 00:09:00,000
I don't feel like.

59
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:13,560
I mean you know exactly swimming in that shit if it's only five k you need like ones of ones now have that's five thousand minutes like a steak like that big right.

60
00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:24,280
What that's like that's like several pounds worth of dollar bills it's gonna be like bath on that big i mean they look bad but it's not that much water in them.

61
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:34,800
Like is there any any you know is there water in the house to you also there will be how many how many ones you need to fill a bathtub i'll be bright back.

62
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:40,840
Well but your body volume will also be in it though right so like you guys attract that bit out of it.

63
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:54,560
Paper's flat like you could stack them and it'd be like you know this big Jesus where we come from i'm skeptical i don't know how any other way to put it i'm just skeptical.

64
00:09:54,560 --> 00:10:10,680
I just say as well as soon as i started typing out how many one dollar bills first hit to fill a bathtub fucking google it's completely like when i know what you fucking want me like we have the same thing everybody's asking which is how many bath how many bath tub.

65
00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:13,560
How much how much dollars dollar.

66
00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:20,080
God i'm tired sorry so what's the fucking answer yeah.

67
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:34,040
Jesus okay okay there's a range of range of dollars like maybe people don't even know what we're talking about right like i had no idea until i clicked all the links that were posted and went back and did some research so.

68
00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:42,200
Maybe people in the shade on this and i don't even know what's okay so we have a range we've arranged numbers.

69
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:51,200
Is the range based on how big you as a person hundred gallon is a hundred gallons like that sounds like a fucking huge that's.

70
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,680
American size.

71
00:10:52,680 --> 00:11:05,080
Fucking crazy like no offense but i'm pretty sure the standard bath tub is actually more like it's probably a hundred liars that's.

72
00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:19,960
No twenty five gallons no it's way bigger than that yeah but never think about it like it nearly rocks like is like that big which is about size of the whole my back and most my body and i can't lie flat in a bathtub i have to.

73
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:29,960
Put my knees up a little bit in a standard you know compact bath tub well what's going to bath we talking about we don't have all those big old warden motherfuckers with like the deep.

74
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:35,320
Let me know okay maybe one of those might sixty later i'm probably going to bath.

75
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:45,160
Where you know if you like you're tall like me you know really needs is sticking up is not enough space to lie down that's fucking no way that's more than a hundred liars i thought.

76
00:11:45,160 --> 00:12:00,200
Alright so i'm here and like three hundred liters bath tub three hundred liters okay well this thing in the u.s. is yeah three hundred gallons this three hundred fifty five thousand is the number okay it's just being confirmed three hundred.

77
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:07,680
Three hundred wait three hundred thirty five thousand usd in dollars fills a hundred gallon bathtub is that what you're saying.

78
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:21,240
That's that's what the that's what the that's what the consents seems to be somewhere between three hundred and thirty five and five hundred and fifty thousand dollars depending on how big you are.

79
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:32,640
To displace water and or whether you even get in the bath full stop so the general assumption here seems to be that it's the lower end if you get in the higher end if you're not in the bath.

80
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:41,560
I don't say that means five thousand one even cover your gentleman's region yes they kind of assuming that you take up about two hundred thousand dollars worth of space in your bath.

81
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:48,360
Not even your frankenbein's good five hundred five thousand to do.

82
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:54,600
I'm good thing i'm good thing we're solving these problems you know this could really be one of the questions that i was just talking about.

83
00:12:54,600 --> 00:13:07,960
Like you enter the interview and they're like alright you're in a bathroom how many dollar bills that need to a fill up the bathtub or be filled up while you're in it and please be as accurate as possible.

84
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:14,120
I've had a very similar interview question before but it was like golf balls filling up a limousine.

85
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:23,960
Questions like that you're like this is academically interesting like maybe for those of the pub with my friends and your couple of them are better at math it would be quite fun to like figure this out.

86
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:29,120
This doesn't change whether or not i know how to do a right fold.

87
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:35,800
What the fuck we don't hear that so how many so the question of regretting waking up this morning.

88
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:47,800
So the interview question is how many how many stars foundation shares do you need to liquidate to be able to cover your frankenbein's in a bathtub.

89
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:55,000
And then you need to liquidate entire supply liquid ice.

90
00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:01,840
And the mighty python answer is like well in american or your your your European.

91
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:08,920
So if all the top ten validators liquidate their stars could they cover the junk of one validator.

92
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:14,800
That's the question because what's the biggest about ten ten million stars something like that.

93
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:21,200
That's what is it what's the biggest validated like isn't what is what it's got down.

94
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,280
Oh deliated to it.

95
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,480
I don't even know sixty million fifty nine million.

96
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,720
Some of that money is that enough to cover your junk.

97
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,520
Yeah it might be actually hang on.

98
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:30,040
What in power.

99
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:31,960
Yeah sixty million figment there.

100
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,080
I mean there's a good validator.

101
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,560
I'm glad they have sixty million fucking stars.

102
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,200
Yeah.

103
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,840
I'm glad they're number one.

104
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,040
That's probably running on like that's probably running on some some three eighty six sitting

105
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,040
at a data center that nobody's looked at in 20 years.

106
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,520
The big guys do not unplug on it.

107
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,520
Four dollars.

108
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,400
The person who's assigned to look after it has long left the company.

109
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,040
Black car.

110
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,440
Didn't leave their SSH keys when they wiped their laptop.

111
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,760
They're the only keys on that box.

112
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:10,000
They're just really hoping there's not a stargaze update upgrade anytime soon.

113
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,120
Yeah so that'll that'll do it.

114
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:19,160
So figment figment can can hide their modesty if they liquidated if they liquidated somehow

115
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,560
all of their delegates tokens.

116
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,200
So yeah there we go.

117
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,760
Wait so what is the drama do we actually come back to the question.

118
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,040
You heard it here first.

119
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:36,560
Six hundred sixty million stars will cover your junk sold at the right time sold at the

120
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:37,080
right time.

121
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:37,840
Well sold now.

122
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:43,120
That's today's prices you need 60 million stars to make five hundred thousand dollars

123
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:51,760
well six hundred thousand dollars to definitively American or European bathtub hide your modesty.

124
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,400
Either way welcome to Game of Nodes.

125
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,400
We're ignoring our guest.

126
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:58,720
Sorry Noel.

127
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,760
So we understand that you're very big in the sledging game.

128
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:08,920
How did you get into that and what made you kind of interested in going on on Twitter

129
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,160
and sledging other people involved in the ecosystem.

130
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,360
I haven't said a fucking goddamn thing on Twitter in like two months.

131
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,440
I learned it its best that way.

132
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,520
I mean it's actually correct.

133
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,240
Yeah but well the joke doesn't work that way.

134
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:28,320
So anyway to be fair actually you are right you haven't actually been a spy you haven't

135
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,200
been spying you know actually it's not that you haven't been spying so you haven't been

136
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,360
here you haven't even been off to walk about.

137
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,360
Fuck I've just been busy man.

138
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:41,960
It's like so much shit going on and yeah man I just got sick of Twitter.

139
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,120
It's like so much bullshit on there.

140
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,880
I've blocked people which I don't normally do.

141
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,280
I just whenever I opened up that feed I just got sick of seeing shit.

142
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,440
So I started blocking people.

143
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,560
Fuck all this noise that I need this.

144
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:03,800
And so yeah I've just been generally pretty fucking spiced up for the last couple of weeks.

145
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:10,280
Missed the group chats, the live group chats for a couple of weeks now for various reasons.

146
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,200
For some reason it's always been falling when I'm traveling.

147
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:14,680
Traveling doesn't make me happy either.

148
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:19,000
So yeah man I need a fucking holiday.

149
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,200
When you say spiced up do you mean like Dune perhaps?

150
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,200
Dune's spiced up.

151
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,560
Hey has everybody seen the trailer for part two?

152
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,640
When is Dune two?

153
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,120
Like October right?

154
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:36,520
Yeah.

155
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,280
You know what this is probably a hot take but I'm not super stoked for it.

156
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,400
The first one oh my god it was so dramatic.

157
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,240
Like Dune is a derma and it's a space opera so obviously it's dramatic.

158
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:52,840
But like oh my god like you're waiting like you're looking across sand and the music's

159
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,840
like blah.

160
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,720
It doesn't need to be this intense.

161
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,720
Yeah exactly.

162
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,240
There's like I didn't think the first one was that great.

163
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,240
Can I just say that I think that's actually a really good impression of the Sadaqara at

164
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,240
the beginning of the film.

165
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:16,200
To the point that I did that one morning where my wife wasn't expecting it.

166
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,200
She fucking freaked out.

167
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,200
She wasn't really disturbing.

168
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:26,200
But yeah I don't know I'm obviously a massive stan of the new film and I'm a massive stan

169
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,200
of Denis Villeneuve the director.

170
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,640
But if there's one guy who could split into two parts and maybe not fuck it up it's probably

171
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,640
Denis Villeneuve.

172
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,640
But I am worried.

173
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,640
I'm concerned.

174
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,640
I'm concerned like all people who get a good thing and fear it's going to end because

175
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,640
nothing's forever dude.

176
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,840
That's how I feel about part two.

177
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,560
I mean I thought that it was well I thought the first one was well done.

178
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,640
It was just I don't know it was a lot like not only was the three and a half hours but

179
00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,840
it was also three and a half hours of like a buildup of suspense and then they had basically

180
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,800
no what's it catharsis at the end.

181
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:09,960
So the movie ends and you're like do I need to go smoke or something because I feel like

182
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,960
I didn't get that release of tension.

183
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:17,560
I have a hard to say with yet because it man so I didn't realize this is part two when

184
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,400
I went to see it.

185
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,320
I went with a friend and it was like Dune and then it has the subtype of part one.

186
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,520
I was like what the fuck in the cinema.

187
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,720
And then the end I was still kind of like not really I didn't really believe it until

188
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:36,840
the credits at the end of like oh my god I can't literally when they you know the bit

189
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,680
where it's going to be the end you're like oh no this is going to be the end.

190
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:41,480
This is literally going to be the end.

191
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,480
I can't believe I can't believe they do this.

192
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:44,680
This is literally the end.

193
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,960
It turns to my friend like I think this is the end this is the end of the film.

194
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,600
And like he's like I don't know I haven't checked my watch.

195
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:51,640
This isn't going to be the end of the film.

196
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,160
And I was like it's the end of the film mate.

197
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,920
They're literally about to roll credits on us and then they did we were both like oh

198
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,200
like sad child voice.

199
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:00,920
It was we just went to the pub and got drunk.

200
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,840
So that's how you got your emotional release but I think I just drove an hour and a half

201
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,280
home and I was like oh shit.

202
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,880
Yeah yeah I was with doctors and they were just like just went to the pub and then they just

203
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,400
you know got drunk and kind of aching like so who died this week.

204
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:20,760
You know and you're like yeah yes yeah doesn't mean we didn't get the film we wanted but

205
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,600
it's fine we can we just like wait two years till the next one that's cool man it's fine.

206
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,360
I just I just heard servers I don't have it so bad.

207
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,040
Yeah so Stargate's drama do we aren't actually like talking about?

208
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,040
We're talking about.

209
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:44,840
Yeah we're losing one of our regular panellists is going to the the Jake space.

210
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,640
So I feel like it's super fucking late here but I feel like I should.

211
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,440
It's prime time in the States baby.

212
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:55,800
Oh there goes Frey.

213
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:57,560
Go on he's like see you.

214
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:58,120
Deuces.

215
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:00,600
Thank God man that guy does not shut the fuck up.

216
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:03,160
He's back.

217
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,480
But I'm back.

218
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:09,640
I've been wondering like is it really that bad that I haven't been showing up like.

219
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,080
Wow.

220
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,120
I've missed about like seven minutes of airtime in that fucking three weeks I haven't been here.

221
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,600
You are spicy today.

222
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,840
I've long said that fucking Frey talks away too much.

223
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,800
Well yeah but then if he doesn't then none of us do.

224
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,160
It's ratio with fucking three guests.

225
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:38,920
I am an introvert who talks because he finds it awkward when there's not background noise.

226
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:46,200
So that's why I find doing the podcast so so very tiring because I have to fill a lot of dead air.

227
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,280
As you know well the podcast is like a professional bike sprint.

228
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,600
You have to get your elbows out and you have to fight for your for your position in order

229
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,640
to get to the lionel and I can't help it that you don't have a winning attitude anymore in terms

230
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:02,920
of getting your voice on the pod.

231
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,600
I just get sick of talking out of people.

232
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:07,880
I much prefer just to listen.

233
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,720
I'm a great listener who told you that.

234
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,880
What the fuck is going on today.

235
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:13,880
Like your camera's dying.

236
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:14,680
You're dying.

237
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,840
You're fucking backing up the lungs.

238
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:17,480
Bad.

239
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:18,440
Jesus Christ.

240
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:19,560
Should we call an ambulance.

241
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,280
If he goes down I'm calling the ambulance.

242
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:22,920
I'm not.

243
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:23,960
Send him where you're like.

244
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,840
I don't know.

245
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,400
He's in like the northern part of the UK.

246
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:27,880
He's in the north.

247
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:28,280
I think.

248
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:28,840
He's in the north.

249
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,120
Just keep going.

250
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:33,560
We're like chest infection is it love.

251
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:36,280
Well bloody join the back of the line.

252
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,960
I might have to go back exactly where he lives but we do know his house is shaped like a teepee.

253
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:46,280
The third floor behind the bikes.

254
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:47,960
Every fucking house is shaped like it.

255
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,880
I can't even emphasize enough how I basically live in an episode of Coronation Street.

256
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,960
So it is basically just it's just back to back around there love.

257
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,080
We really have like it's all taken mills.

258
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,280
What do you mean you know Alex mills the fuck is a mill.

259
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:08,680
A mill.

260
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,800
A mill like a lumber mill where you yeah where you know.

261
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:22,280
A mill like you know but water powered you know make clothes stuff you know mill.

262
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:28,120
You should really fucking take some of that like AWS money and get yourself some better internet.

263
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,960
Yeah I just I don't know what's happening.

264
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,520
I think it's like the laptop needs a needs a needs an upgrade.

265
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:41,320
It's being a bit of a pain because it's the internet is apparently 400 megabits up here

266
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,400
but it just keeps dropping out for some reason.

267
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:50,280
But so does anyone want to do the TLDR on the Stargaze thing which we've been like

268
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,080
dancing around for for 10 minutes.

269
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,360
Uh I feel like I wouldn't be the best person for that.

270
00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:59,160
I can do it if no one else wants to fill in but.

271
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:04,760
I think you serpent knows all about it or I read the thing but unless it's in front of me

272
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,760
like I'm not going to be able to recite it.

273
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,920
I don't wait I'm actually might be the person for us since you guys validate on stars.

274
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,640
I have no I have no.

275
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:14,360
Valid.

276
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:15,160
I'm not on stars.

277
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,280
No I don't know that.

278
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,640
Yeah so I can throw out your last basket buddy.

279
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:20,600
Yeah exactly right.

280
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:26,840
I think the spiciest take we're going to see and probably lost myself a lot of delegations.

281
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:32,520
I did I think I did also lose my Juno delegation so I'm I'm free ball on it.

282
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,280
All right go ahead.

283
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:39,240
Yeah okay so.

284
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:46,120
I would wait for the assessment on that because we due to various reasons we've changed around

285
00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:51,400
a couple of rules for the first round if we ever get to the end of it.

286
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:55,880
I think I must have dropped off because I don't even felt your fucking form.

287
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,520
Yeah you you're not getting shit.

288
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,840
Stick your form up your ass stupid fucking.

289
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,880
You're going to make it even more convoluted and fucking catered.

290
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,480
You want like proof and shit.

291
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,640
Jesus like who the fuck do you think you are.

292
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:11,400
You want links.

293
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:13,320
God damn it.

294
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:18,280
Anyway if I get it my way I want to make it fucking automatic so people don't even need to apply.

295
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,960
They just get delegated to if they do the right things.

296
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,360
If you believe that you wouldn't have a fucking form.

297
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:29,400
I'm actually building a tracker like bought right now that could track anything you want to track

298
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,560
probably we should talk after this.

299
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:37,720
Yeah man if you've got something that can make my life easier than spending fucking 200 hours on

300
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,680
something that I don't get paid for I'm all ears.

301
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,240
We can yeah we'll see.

302
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:49,320
I'm using all internally right now but I don't see why I couldn't make the data available to you

303
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:49,960
if you wanted it.

304
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,520
Anyway ignoring that so back to stars.

305
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:58,840
Yeah that's one drama short see can we keep on we need to talk about the other drop of the

306
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,520
specific you know the drama.

307
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,840
Let's stay on track yeah let's stay on track yeah.

308
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:09,240
Yeah so okay so I think the the start of this the genesis the nation drama was

309
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:15,560
Don Kryptonium posted a a google sheet of like they're trying to figure out who a

310
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:21,240
Star's Whale was that sold six million dollars USD worth of stars over the course of

311
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,600
basically last year.

312
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,800
My understanding is they didn't know who was originally he just tracked all of their

313
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:33,960
transactions on osmosis and they have a chart that goes with it where like you can see

314
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,880
like two hundred thousand dollars sold and then the stars price kind of dips right and

315
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,560
it just happens repeatedly.

316
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,840
Well Don posted this she's like hey who's this whale I don't know and then I think it was

317
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:51,160
I think it was someone from Osmosis lab maybe that was like oh that actually is Jake that's

318
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:57,800
Jake Hartnall's and so then more more research was done who's confirmed to be to be Jake

319
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:04,200
Hartnall's account and from there so I think that a lot of that came out yesterday that

320
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,680
he did selling yesterday but I'm not gonna make any claim about whether selling is good

321
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,800
or bad or whatever I mean we're all in crypto to make money right so take however you will

322
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:19,720
but I think the follow-up drama is you make money in Cosmo in theory that's the goal I

323
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:27,480
think some people do yes some people I mean I just hate sleep so it's there's that too

324
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:33,240
so there's that bit that's the first part part one starts with six million dollars of stars

325
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:38,360
was sold and those that did that too like apparently it was more like or like two thirds

326
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:43,320
of how much was ever made off of the star NFTs and stuff but anyway and then the follow-up

327
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:49,800
drama was today was that the stars team came out with a tweet thread I think my understanding

328
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:59,800
is Jake was removed from the stars like founding team he gave his founding stars back I don't

329
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:05,160
know how that would have worked because presumably there's a transaction oh it wasn't like

330
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,200
bested or anything they must they must be like the visiting period must be up it was relatively

331
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:16,040
short I think it was like okay is there one yeah I think oh yeah one one year lock up invested

332
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:22,040
for one year so we're past that I think right got it so so he sent his stars back and then

333
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:28,920
following that there's just kind of like a like a drama fest of like Jake is not hasn't even been

334
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,920
even been active here and he's stealing code and yeah some of these other ones are great right

335
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:40,680
yeah and so that's kind of where they're just accusations right like there's no uh much like

336
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:46,120
the fucking recurring Juno drama there's no one actually puts any facts to anything they just say

337
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:54,120
stuff right I mean I didn't see any like hard facts about the other claims only the spreadsheet of

338
00:28:54,120 --> 00:29:00,040
sales I guess but was is the spreadsheet of sales is it like a wolf thing where they only put the

339
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:07,000
sales on there and none of the buys uh that's an interesting point I didn't check that but yes I

340
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,800
believe it is only sales that are on there on this yeah because that's like I remember that that

341
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:18,360
Takumi sheet that that went around that everyone keeps banging on about where it's like tracked all

342
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:24,920
of wolf's accounts but it's like it's just tracked like IBC out or whatever and it hasn't like

343
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:31,640
tracked any IBC inns or anything like that and like I know the wolf has accounts where he's just

344
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:38,200
bought up shitloads of Juno over periods of time so yeah I don't know take it with a grain of salt

345
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:43,640
until you see the full picture I say but even still like you know I yeah I'm not going to really

346
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:50,040
comment on whether selling them's beyond the his pervy or not I mean I mean do you get something

347
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,040
does someone have something that they're not willing to sell like there's a price for everything

348
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:59,880
right I mean isn't the fucking point that you you make some money you can sell it like the token

349
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:05,880
only what do they think was gonna happen what why'd they have the fucking tokens like yeah yeah and

350
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,280
there's nothing there's nothing there's nothing I mean the morality of it whether or not a founder

351
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,520
can sell is that's something that each individual can make that decision right I mean that's up to

352
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,840
the individual but there's nothing like illegal or immoral about what happened like these are open

353
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,880
open tokens and it went through the vesting period of those other ones those weren't sold and you can

354
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:29,080
see like from this picture I'll put the link in the show notes but there's there's sales before the

355
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:36,360
price popped like early on in in 2020 in January and it's all the way to the peak it's on the way

356
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:41,240
down and then there's like a I don't know what is this a six month or eight month break after there's

357
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:47,080
nothing going on and it happens again you know in 2023 so it looks pretty consistent I'm not sure

358
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,640
the values in terms of number of star sold and the dollars are way down this year but so is the price

359
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:59,800
so I don't know I mean it I mean I that that this enough I mean it has a material impact on the price

360
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,120
of stars catalyzing the downward pressure right at the airdrop and most recently at six cents

361
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:09,000
like that's true I mean selling large amounts does definitely has a huge impact on the LPs we all

362
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:15,560
know that right but I don't think it'd be easy to argue that he is maybe not to the full extent but

363
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:22,360
is giving back I think he has two full-time developers hired like on basically his staff

364
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:29,320
working on products within the cosmos so he is in its sense still being productive with that money

365
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,680
sure it's not you don't just you don't need this much money for two devs though but you know whatever

366
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:43,000
maybe not necessarily like productive for just stargaze though I guess might be the

367
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:48,680
yeah the issue yeah yeah and this I mean I don't know about the code piece of that side of it but

368
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:56,920
I mean the idea that as a founder of a chain and if you start putting large sales in there and

369
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:03,240
really drop in price down it that's definitely painful right like if you have a somebody selling

370
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,600
large enough amounts to really move liquidity pools in really lower price over a period of time

371
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,880
and knowing that you know you know Tara doesn't fucking help the fact right so all that shit

372
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:19,960
happened in here too these are around the same time frames and so that's challenging right and

373
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,560
but the whole thing around like being involved in I do want to talk about other things too because

374
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:28,200
we could talk about that somebody else came out I think it was about about we'll come to it but

375
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,320
somebody was talking about the idea of working for multiple chains and how how how prolific that is

376
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,440
in the cosmos we should talk about that too at some point but I don't know you know as a as a side

377
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:44,760
note I wouldn't mind knowing where that spreadsheet actually originated what do you mean like this I

378
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,080
assume it's transactions off of mincegan right yeah you don't you mean you don't think it's from

379
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:55,160
done kryptonium well how many transactions are on there does it look like it's like 100 no no

380
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,640
no there's like at least at least there's gotta be I don't know this is like the number of dollar

381
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,120
bills to cover your junk in a bathtub but there's a lot of dots on this thing there's gotta be at

382
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:09,480
least I would say at least a hundred and a hundred transactions maybe okay let me go from the one

383
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:15,080
account or is it like just all around I don't know that that date is not in there it just it just says

384
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:20,040
it just says it doesn't it doesn't say if it's all from the same wallet or not okay it looks like

385
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:26,440
there's literally 99 cells I can I'll post it in the chat yeah I don't know there's a bunch there's

386
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,760
a bunch of there's lots of dots each one's a transaction right so they're at this one graphs

387
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:39,000
date and then dollars in USD although I don't know exactly what that's coming from I'd rather see

388
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,760
I'd rather see IBC transactions out I guess than dollars in USD I don't think you really make that

389
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,600
decision unless they're unless they're actually maybe this is the osmosis wallet and they're

390
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,760
tracking that I don't know what the hell's going on here yeah that's correct it's the osmosis wallet

391
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,000
that they're tracking but that doesn't necessarily mean it's only stargaze right because Juno would

392
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,880
been here as well I don't know that doesn't mean it has each one of these has to be star sales unless

393
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,800
they let's say filter that down but maybe yep it's filtered down it's filtered down to

394
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:13,080
star token in then token out basically is what it's filtered down to yeah so there you go no so

395
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:21,160
yeah okay well it kind of feels like psyops to me you know being a skeptic which part you mean just

396
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,640
break this coming out yeah it just feels like a bit of a targeted takedown you know what I mean

397
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,680
like but down works for stargaze right so is this from the inside out

398
00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:38,360
I don't know yeah down yeah he does so is that mean like hey we want to figure out who this is

399
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:45,240
and oh shit we know or do we always know who this was and so now down is the uh I feel like it's

400
00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:50,680
pretty unlikely that people didn't know if I think it's obviously that kind of volume that was materially

401
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:56,520
affecting the price yeah I feel like it's probably been known for a long time I mean if I was a chain

402
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:01,400
owner I would I would be watching daily IBC transactions right I would watch the shit out of

403
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,840
that because I don't want to know exactly what's coming in and coming out and I would think that

404
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,000
early on you would know about this two years ago right you wouldn't or you wouldn't know about or

405
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,320
whatever it is 18 months ago you wouldn't know about today I feel like this goes back to conversation

406
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:18,920
we had a long time ago around like a certain amount like certain standards that could be created

407
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:24,520
around cosmos chains not that not that like chains should have to follow it but like these are some

408
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,480
checkpoints you should look for to be able to trust a chain or like the founders having a one

409
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:34,200
year investing period for example it's kind of a red flag for for like the tokenomics of the chain

410
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:40,440
right yeah like once it hits that that point they're just going to be burned away right potentially

411
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:46,680
but bear in mind in this case that the the tokens that were sold similar to the wolf

412
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:53,800
case actually are vested token they're the they're the interest minted on vested tokens so that the

413
00:35:53,800 --> 00:36:00,520
vesting the lockup is all by the by it means nothing because you just stake the tokens and you're

414
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,160
going to get depending on how well how many tokens are actually locked up you're going to get 100%

415
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:11,560
of them back year one or well juneau is 100% other chains it's usually around 100 stargaze I guess

416
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:17,000
because of the inflation model it would have been like 70% 60% my maths somebody check my maths you

417
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:22,040
know whatever the point is that you're going to get a significant portion of those in year one

418
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:30,600
because of the the the way that the third thing works or whatever so it's less it's less it was it's

419
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:36,360
the combination of the thing that you always see saying which is about lockup and investing is also

420
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:44,440
about like the the tokenomics itself and the irony here right is that retail want super high

421
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:53,240
invest interest rates that the reward people who enter early right and especially in app chain winter

422
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:59,880
that was the thing and the problem with that is that retail win while the price is going up initially

423
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:05,800
and the devs win and that's great everybody wins and now we end up in the depth of a bear market

424
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:12,680
substantially later where these tokenomics that were never sustainable have proven to be not

425
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,960
sustainable until there's another bull run and while we're doing the all let's eat each other

426
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:24,920
thing it's like ah look back to this thing that happened at that point you know are people sold

427
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:31,160
and it's like well yeah but if you were bought on a monday and sold on a friday during that same period

428
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:37,880
you would have probably got a 20 or 30 return on your initial which is insanity like the saving

429
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:46,280
saving rates where i live have been less than a percent for the last six seven years until you

430
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:51,960
know interest rates have gone up again recently so there is a little bit of a reality check here

431
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:57,400
which is that if anything sounds too good to be true it usually is and the whole of crypto

432
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:05,560
is a completely unsustainable tokenomics model that is fraught with systemic risk and if

433
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:12,280
well you know it's the it's the entire function of pumponomics right you fucking this is like

434
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:18,920
what people are buying into and people get burnt time and time and time again and continue to do

435
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:25,560
the same dumb shit like if you've got a fucking i reserve that 800 like apr

436
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,240
you know like we've been a part of this right where we've been in on chains early doors as

437
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:37,960
validators and we've just compounded our way into a tax bill then it all falls apart and you look at

438
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,760
it now and you're like what the fuck was i thinking but at the same time you know i mean you know maybe

439
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:50,520
the the reality here is i we can sit here and say you know whatever because obviously there was enough

440
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:56,440
to cover the tax bill in the end and and and things kind of panned out okay and lesson learn you know

441
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:02,120
but you know obviously people have been burnt more right and so they're angry and that and so you know

442
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:07,080
that's it's difficult because you're just like you know you can't just be like dismissing the

443
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:12,520
fact that people have been burned by the ponsonomics but you're also just like if you look at the regular

444
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:17,160
economy which is already unstable you know like look at the stock market which is already unstable

445
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:23,480
these are unstable complex systems and then you look at crypto and you and you don't understand

446
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:30,200
the level of risk that you're playing with i there i i do have a limited amount of sympathy for not

447
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:36,920
understanding that because it is very very obvious the level of systemic risk involved

448
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:42,520
i thought i think people know i think people know like you know you look at the people that are

449
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:49,640
jumping on board with things like dogecoin and pepe and fucking anyone of like 10 000 other

450
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:55,880
shitcoins on bnb and people know that they could get rugged at any minute they know that like you

451
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:01,240
know any any number of things can happen but you know there's also the small chance that they can

452
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:07,880
buy nine dollars worth of pepe and fucking sell it three days later for nine million dollars like

453
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:17,960
they're taking risk to get the easy payday but what happens 99 times out of 100 is that you know

454
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:22,760
most of those people get burnt and they lose their nine dollars and you aggregate with nine

455
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,000
dollars is together and then some questions involved in this drama which are interesting right

456
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:34,680
one of them is is it okay for a dev to take profit i say yes doubly so in a bull where

457
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:41,640
the sell can be absorbed is you know what is their obligation to the chain that's a more

458
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:47,720
interesting one right and and how long does it last you know if there's no contract i don't know

459
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:52,760
like i've recently gone back to doing some corporate contracting and i have a my current

460
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:59,160
contract has a series of very very interesting break clauses on it where obviously i don't get

461
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,960
to exercise these if i do anything where i say i want to break the contract as the weak little

462
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:11,720
billy small balls i have the luxury of going to fuck myself and receiving no pay right that that

463
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:18,840
would be you know us as a company our our obligation ends and we get no money right but there are

464
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,640
there is there's always fucking spicy things in contract that you they're never going to get used

465
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:28,200
but when you dig down into a long contract where there's like if the board of directors

466
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:35,800
decides that there is a willy a reasonable case for termination without pay and no additional

467
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,920
payments you know you basically the billy big balls can tell billy small balls to to fuck

468
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:46,440
himself and also you're not getting paid all of these interesting things that complex contractual

469
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:53,000
things are just not fucking there right so then how is it is difficult to then say well okay so

470
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:59,400
somebody was a founder brought the thing to market it launched the products live brought the main

471
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:06,360
product to to to the market what's their obligation from that point going forward it well it's

472
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:12,920
fired and the allocation is a genesis allocation and from the point of view of the tax man that's

473
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:18,680
your money you got to pay tax on it you got to pay capital gains on it yeah i think there's like

474
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:25,560
unspoken expectation that like founders will do the what's best for the community i think that's

475
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:32,200
like the unspoken expectation from the community but is it written in law anywhere no should

476
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:37,800
they bake better things into how the token distribution the founders goes yes if users

477
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:44,760
don't want to get dumped on like for example maybe founders tokens shouldn't be able to take advantage

478
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:51,960
of pumponomics for example um maybe they don't earn rewards for two years or something like that you

479
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,680
know what i mean like it's already a pretty big bag and if you want long-term alignment with the

480
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:03,800
chain then you really don't want to reward a short-term you know gain so you know i feel like

481
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,480
there's things people can do they just don't do it because they're the founders and obviously they

482
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,200
want to sell fucking tokens and the only way they're going to get it on vested tokens is with

483
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:20,680
the interest from the the pumponomic but you know it's just people like the vast majority of people

484
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,480
entering into an early stage chain are not there for the technology of the chain they're there for a

485
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:31,400
hype and pumponomics and to try and make a quick buck in my opinion it's the long-term people who

486
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:37,960
stick around who are mainly getting burnt by the falling token price after the realization of like

487
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:43,400
you know well after after sell pressure after because the graph goes the same every single time

488
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:49,080
is like you know people on board they want to get the they want to get in on the on the returns in

489
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:54,920
the short period of time they buy up the token the token moons at some point there's like a there's

490
00:43:54,920 --> 00:44:02,120
a nexus at some point where the returns aren't good enough to or the people selling out from making

491
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:08,280
the returns are eclipsing those entering trying to get in on the returns and then it goes down it's

492
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:15,160
the exact same cycle every single fucking time yeah the only way that changes it and the only way

493
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,960
that changes now is if those chains start generating revenue to the point where it pumps that stuff back

494
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:26,120
up because it's not the revenue the revenue isn't like this not going to happen for years you need

495
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:33,000
you need to steadily grow a user base you need to like develop your products like most of these

496
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:41,240
chains are launched without you know good proper products um develop they're they're like minimum

497
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:46,280
viable product to get out there and get the token on the market so they can sell it to continue

498
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:51,400
development it's not you know these are early stage ventures right which is why there's so much

499
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,480
money in l ones i mean note this is no different than any other business right because you have

500
00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:01,160
especially as a as a as like a founder structure you have vcs involved your outside investors

501
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:06,040
they're all at the trough right they're all they've all put in money in some sort of sense or time

502
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:10,360
and they're all waiting for the time when they can pull that money out or at least a percentage of it

503
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,640
because they're all making decisions on how much do i pull out what do i not pull out

504
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:18,840
and is this is this going to go higher than this and so am i giving up future rewards right it's

505
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:24,120
no different and so retail people meaning like we would be considered not us as validators but

506
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,360
we're a different group actually even worse than i think some parts of retail because we have

507
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,360
anyway but as a retail person either they're to your point like they're either trying to

508
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,960
time it out to get to the point where it's going to be worth something and try to sell it off at

509
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:43,160
some sort of peak or at least run it up 100% or 200% or they are or they're going to be able to see

510
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:49,880
that go away completely because the timeline of the founders and others who might have more data

511
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:55,160
than a retail person does make the decision that this is the time to be able to remove it so like

512
00:45:55,160 --> 00:46:00,280
i don't know like i'm actually really my question to jake would be why did you not i mean i don't

513
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:05,800
know how much i don't actually don't know how much how much percentage of ownership was sold in

514
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:11,400
these numbers because all i see is the dollars what i'd really like to see is of the stars owned

515
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:17,560
what percentage did he dump if all that money turned into like hey i had 10% and 10% gone after a

516
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:22,440
founder got to a point of being able to liquid something out that's actually not that bad and

517
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,680
like that seems like a reasonable percentage and and maybe maybe the numbers are really high and

518
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,920
it's too much for the liquidity pools but who knows because he doesn't know what's coming next right

519
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:36,040
he's he's selling at 80 cents he might be thinking the thing's going to 18 bucks right so in his eyes

520
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:41,960
i'm selling it at 90 or 10% of the value because i want to be able to pull some money off the table

521
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:48,200
that would be reasonable if you sold 90% of it and that is a that's a strength that's a showing of

522
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,200
i have no faith in this thing that i built right that's that's a different piece and i can't you

523
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:57,240
can't tell it from the numbers here so i don't know what the numbers are so if you're looking at it

524
00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:04,120
like the intentions aside as far as the the chain like jake's attitude towards the chain or anything

525
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:11,720
like that aside right when you're looking at like the the buy sell ecosystem as a whole yeah even though

526
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:17,960
there was sales from that account at certain periods of time which may have affected the price

527
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:24,520
right when you look at it holistically if he didn't take that someone else would have and i don't

528
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:30,280
think that materially there would be much difference in the outcome for the price over that period of

529
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,440
time anyway it's not either it's not either or though is it because people are selling during

530
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:39,080
that time anyway right it's not like it's not it's a it's it's not like somebody else didn't

531
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,400
sell because jake was selling all these numbers right so that's what i'm saying like he might have

532
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:49,960
taken a lot of profit off the table or he might have taken you know some um some lp off the table

533
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:55,000
but if he didn't someone else would have it's not like the price was going to stay up here because

534
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,800
jake didn't sell it was always going to go down it's just a matter of how fast right so the way

535
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,880
i'm thinking about this a little bit is like you know nine out of ten companies fail in the first

536
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:12,040
three years right um knowing that facts yeah you know as business owners everybody in this podcast

537
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:19,800
is a business owner um if you have a good year let's say it happens to be your first year you take

538
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:26,120
as much of the liquid cash out of the company and put it into your own name as you can because you

539
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:31,320
got bills to pay you've got a mortgage you got whatever does your accountant turn around to you

540
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:37,000
and say you lack faith in your business or does your accountant go well you've got enough liquid

541
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:42,680
cash to run your business that's probably a sensible move like that's what i mean like there is a kind

542
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:49,400
of there's an element here of like you know if you know that that there is an inherent risk

543
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:54,200
that it goes no matter how hard you work on it no matter how many years there's an inherent risk

544
00:48:54,200 --> 00:49:01,320
that it does go to zero which is the evidence we have the what do you do like for virtue

545
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:06,440
signaling reasons you don't take you don't take a profit it's just the amount that's what i'm saying

546
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:11,160
like that's yeah i don't agree that if he doesn't sell in this price continues to go down that doesn't

547
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,240
make any sense to me like like i don't again i don't know how many tokens are in here but like

548
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:19,800
there's a big numbers and it doesn't mean that like that price if those don't end up in the

549
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:24,040
equity pools somebody else would fill that gap i totally don't agree with that like it might be a

550
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,360
percentage of that but 100% to say that means we can predetermine what the price is regardless of

551
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:33,240
how many people sell or buy like i don't know what that means the price follows market sentiment and

552
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:39,560
the market like out of all of the the tokens in the cosmos most of them lost 90 plus percent during

553
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:45,080
the bear market and all of them we're going to do that after a run up from a pump anyway so

554
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:51,720
so yeah i think yes i do what's up but what's a pump though 80 cents the initial the initial pump

555
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:56,200
i was just talking about it before june 1 to 45 this is that 80 cents are we at a is that a pump

556
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:02,920
number or is it is it 90% is it is it 1% of its of its capability like like you're like this is

557
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:07,560
hindsight you're looking at the graph to make a decision to say this is a pump number but at the

558
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:12,760
time at 60 cents i was looking at to say this thing should be over a buck right like like this is

559
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:18,360
this is a great product it's delivering a ton this has a long runway ahead and to say that that's a

560
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,920
pump time or that's a dump time at 80 cents i don't know if i don't know if everybody felt that at

561
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:30,040
the time for what it's worth i remember in lisbon in 2021 so this would have been immediately

562
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:35,240
shit wasn't 2021 how fucking old are we how long have we been doing this shit we're doing this podcast

563
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:41,000
over Jesus christ so yeah like nearly two years ago in lisbon okay so nobody's obviously talking

564
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:48,200
about price but i feel like there was a general vibe that the stargaze nailing the f the nft thing

565
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:52,600
would be over one dollar easy in this first couple years yeah i would that was that was

566
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:58,600
because because like i don't know where i've pulled that out of my memory but i feel like that was

567
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:04,040
maybe that was just me and the other the the other validated djens that were going to be

568
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:11,080
validating stargaze and we were just all fucking g in each other up over one dollar plus stargaze

569
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:17,160
yeah but um that's that is that is a number that i feel was deemed pretty fucking reasonable

570
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:24,200
and that well i mean look where we are now but it there was a kind of sense of like you know a

571
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:29,080
dollar and then maybe half a dollar as a as a as a price floor would be pretty fucking sweet

572
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:35,400
obviously the price floor is more like the the ath but you know i so there's a bit of that but

573
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,640
then there's so there's something else that like i think is worth kind of considering is like you

574
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:48,680
know startup founders are already the most risk comfortable people um you know kind of in the

575
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:55,720
in the market i suppose and then doubly so in the um doubly so doing doing this fucking mad shit

576
00:51:55,720 --> 00:52:00,920
so there's another element of you know that's my previous point where you recognize how unlikely

577
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:06,680
it is that you do succeed and make profit when you see that on the table what do you do i mean

578
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:12,200
again it all it all depends on i think the percentages of what that means so like i said

579
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,480
it's tough to it's tough to figure out what's going on from this graph because it's all us dollars

580
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,320
and in us dollars it looks really dramatic i'd really like to see percentage of ownership that

581
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:26,120
would actually show me a little bit more yeah in the in the chat ben davis uh who's obviously the

582
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:32,600
other the other part-time host of gamut nodes um maybe should maybe should literally just actually

583
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:38,280
join gamut nodes but anyway that's uh that's a shout out thought um ben join us on the podcast

584
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,920
said that on coin gecko first half the sales daily volume is between one

585
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:52,040
and two million some days as high as four million so uh summary that in context at summary from our

586
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:57,560
analyst on the trading floor ben davis he's called in real time yeah yeah it's it's like the day to

587
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:03,720
day isn't it we're going live to ben davis at the european's the european economic summit um

588
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:09,880
it's unlikely he really moved the market much on any given day thanks for now and now it's

589
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:16,280
huge studio so presumably most of that like you know given the disparity in price between selling

590
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:24,040
at the high and the low right presumably most of that dollar value was made in the in the pump at

591
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:30,760
the initial pump right so if he's sold six million dollars worth of of tokens right say it was all

592
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:37,640
around at h it's only three million tokens yeah so out of that's ten percent right at least i well

593
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,560
maybe that would be reward i'm not sure it was all 30 staked or there were 30 plus some other ones as

594
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,480
well i don't know whatever but you're right it might be just purely rewards based on early apr

595
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:53,800
right yeah so you know i think there's not like the numbers don't carry a lot of context and it's

596
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:59,480
just you know i'd like to see a bit of a better analysis than a than a graph i look forward to

597
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,280
you but clearing that next week so there's also like you gotta remember that these chains were

598
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:11,720
predominantly airdrops right so i think that stargaze in the long term also suffers from the same

599
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:20,920
problems as juno does and that i think is that the early airdrop recipients have no skin in the game

600
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:28,360
at all and probably received the biggest bags there are on juno even in comparison the people who

601
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:36,840
are buying up like long term having a bag of 50 000 juno is still today after the drop is still 25

602
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:45,560
grand right or 30 grand and over the the year or so that juno's been live i would almost guarantee

603
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:53,480
that 90 percent of the cell pressure on juno is from original bag holders collecting monthly

604
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:59,240
and selling their fucking juno so and i think that a lot of the sentiment around developers

605
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:03,880
and stuff dumping on the community is absolute bullshit i mean there is a little bit of truth

606
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:10,760
to it in that but that's what you want those particular bags of juno for is to to be able

607
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:15,400
to sell it to continue development on juno like you don't want to just stall development because

608
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:22,040
price go down but i think if you look at the long term cell pressure i think 90 percent of it comes

609
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:27,560
from original bag holders you don't give a fucking just care about adam and a dumping on the community

610
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:34,040
not not these are the forces that they they use is like a talking piece on twitter i want to add

611
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:40,600
to that that i think that that's kind of a a it's a great point one of the criticisms that was

612
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:46,040
thrown towards juno quite a bit was how they didn't convert a lot of their juno bag to the team

613
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:52,760
into usd or something non-juno in order to that's my criticism i think they should have i think in

614
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:59,880
the run-up they should have taken that opportunity to to capture the the hype and put that money into

615
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:08,280
usd it's it doesn't show a lack of faith in in the in the chain it shows a long-term risk management

616
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:13,880
strategy that allows the chain to continue develop after the hype's over and also if you sell hard

617
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:18,040
into a into a rising market then it also keeps the cap on the price and stops people getting

618
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:24,200
wrecked as hard so exactly that's what i was getting at was that i yeah i think that that

619
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:31,080
jake's move um it wasn't the team tokens that were being sold but it's still like it's part of a

620
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:37,000
risk management structure right like the team bag i don't know if there was a team bag for stars if

621
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,680
there was like a development fund and then individual funds i don't know what the genesis

622
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:47,080
allocation looked like but diversifying is part of good risk management that's just that's that's

623
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:54,600
that's just key that's everything that's a fact um and the fact that he did diversify out and that

624
00:56:54,600 --> 00:57:01,000
he apparently didn't sell any of his initial his um genesis allocation just the staking rewards i think

625
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,400
that says something as well i think that like he couldn't right they were locked well but they

626
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:11,320
haven't been locked for the last six months i'm not sure what the timelines are because it was i

627
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:15,800
think it was that chain launched not maybe somebody else can help me out but let me take a look but

628
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:23,080
it was it was a year lock and then and then october the first 2021 i believe 2021 so october

629
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:27,880
it's like october 2022 and there are there are sales after october 2022 so it might be but those

630
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:32,040
might be rewards or some but you're right the the full 30s area right so actually it hasn't

631
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:37,640
sold any principle on that it's only been rewards off of it right so i don't know to me it's a lot

632
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:42,600
it's absolutely a lot like that's i would say that goes beyond just risk management but it doesn't

633
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:47,320
change the fact that it is a risk management strategy that he executed and i wouldn't fault

634
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:52,520
him for it though again six million is quite a bit all right do we kill this freaking topic

635
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,240
yeah i want to talk about ledger or the secret halt well the secret halt's not quite as interesting

636
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:02,600
as what's going to come out here soon um probably the next week what is that's like i'm so

637
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:08,520
how's that before we move on we can put a bullet in this but i sounds like we're not going to

638
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:13,160
want to say one more thing which is that i'm pretty certain i know the context of the

639
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:20,680
accusation about the code yeah if it's the thing i think is it was configuration for how to get

640
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:27,880
start it's basically configuration ripped out of an xjs app for kepler and it was thrown into the

641
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:33,800
juno starter kit for letting cosmwaz and developers just fucking spin up a starter kit to connect

642
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:39,560
to kepler if it's the thing i'm thinking of which i i know literally came out of stargaze repo

643
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,320
technically it shouldn't have it was a private repo but it's literally the connect to kepler

644
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:49,480
stuff that was then used to help other developers get started and that we made i i literally made a

645
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:57,240
video on callum obviously was also we did that whole series i remember there being a thing around

646
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:03,640
that code and if that's the thing that is then honestly jesus fucking christ that's petty um if

647
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:10,600
it's not i'm wrong fuck fray was you know but there was vaguely something around it yeah whatever

648
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:17,400
i did the cold the whole code thing is the one thing there i'm like that is that's just my

649
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:22,440
bullshit detector is completely through the roof but you know i obviously know jake and have known

650
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:28,040
jake for for some time so i kind of i'm kind of biased on this one i kind of know i know all the

651
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:34,280
parties involved and i don't really want to throw shake because i actually like everybody involved

652
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:43,080
a lot um but i will also say that i think the entire thing stems essentially from an interpersonal

653
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:49,480
issue and i think the fact that it came from don who effectively works for stargaze is actually

654
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:55,160
not a fucking coincidence and i think it is a little bit of a manufactured drama when a couple

655
00:59:55,160 --> 01:00:01,800
of people really should have just privately resolved something that had been an issue for a

656
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:07,320
while yeah and i think that's what it's kind of what i was saying before is is i think anybody who's

657
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:12,360
if you're part of that core team you know this is going on so for it to wait for 18 months until

658
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:18,280
may of 2023 clearly there was something else happening like this is a maybe just kind of enough

659
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:23,560
it got enough um outside of visibility that something had to happen right or something

660
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:27,880
similar to that because there was too much fervor there's too much foam getting generated here or

661
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,120
something but like i don't think anything that any of these obviously they've been talking about this

662
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,360
for a while right and i don't think there's anything that's like surprising here from folks who have

663
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:41,480
been involved so it's just the timing is weird um i think it's my point i think ben davis is

664
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:49,320
abandoned this for the other chat yeah there's a jay farred chat twitter spaces uh i will i'll

665
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:53,880
post it in the chat in case you guys want to recording it too yeah i imagine i imagine there's

666
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:58,520
going to be some good drama in there uh well i know it's a view account fill of a cliff well

667
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,960
there's a better drama elsewhere ben did say he was going to go there and say how there you do

668
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:11,960
this during game of nodes which i which i believe he will do so i appreciate that um yeah man i well

669
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:23,960
i mean i noticed that as well that uh uh usurper you had uh mentioned the car this moment my brain's

670
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:32,280
just the baby tired baby shit like just you said you tweeted at jake how dare you how dare you lock

671
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:38,520
up with game of nodes yes it's a bunch of bullshit i think is what i said i said i said i know you've

672
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,280
got some shit going on but twitter spaces during game of nodes is by far the largest infraction

673
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:50,680
reveals a lot of life far which i bloody unacceptable i stand behind schiltz ledger or secret which

674
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:55,000
we're doing talk about first we probably shouldn't talk about secret because it's not that fun next

675
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,160
week it'll be way more fun i think i was a way i can't wait to hear why what exactly happened there

676
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:05,480
was a there was a lock up uh well so there was a halt for the upgrade and there was like a bug in it

677
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,560
but the follow-up from the bug is what's super interesting which we can talk about next week

678
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:13,880
because it hasn't been fully um so did they end up rolling back a block or what did they end up

679
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:19,000
doing to you know they just put up a new version and then we upgraded version you're going it just

680
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,480
took a long time so that wasn't super dramatic um it was a knowing from a validator perspective

681
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:28,920
because there was like four different steps like the first step was like okay do the upgrade and

682
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:33,560
then we all got one block forward and then everything halted and so then we had all had to

683
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:38,360
turn pruning off for a block or yeah we had to turn off pruning so we became archive nodes

684
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:42,520
for a couple blocks and then it halted again and then they had to investigate that for like four

685
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:46,040
blocks and then we had to upgrade to the next one and then we had to turn on two different

686
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:50,360
hauls and then we had to put the next one and so like if anyone creates an archive node it's going

687
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:57,640
to be absolute hell in like a 10 block phase but it's that's not a huge deal what's more interesting

688
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:08,120
is what's gonna come out because pre marketplace launch um and you know hindsight's also always 2020

689
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:18,680
but um muting null nulls just to mute them face annoying shit all right god damn it that meant

690
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:25,480
like i didn't have like a chance to we know that that's going on all right so can i just observe

691
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:32,280
that i we obviously are friends of jacob's podcast but i'm not sure doing a twitter space

692
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:41,480
right in the middle of the drama is the greatest idea there is a 101 watching this seven year

693
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:47,480
what are you doing people go to the fucking twitter spaces i'd dude if i make six million

694
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:51,400
dollars and get caught doing it and this type of met i guarantee i will bring it to gamernones

695
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:58,840
yes please do and then i guarantee like that's where shrewd is shrewd stuff they're listening

696
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:03,160
to that shit why didn't he just come on game of nodes and tell everyone why didn't he just like

697
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:08,040
all right listen we're gonna talk about on game of nodes agree 2100 utc yeah i mean to be fair

698
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:13,160
he can't fucking soapy reception here would they that's that's what we needed actually maybe we

699
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,680
should that's what we should be doing we should be we should be following the drama we should be

700
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:22,600
inviting the drama and i mean like that i rather we have a great we created some last week but

701
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:29,960
then we only mentioned it one hour and 25 minutes and we didn't we didn't like pre warm the drama

702
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,320
it's just rama mentioned in the chat then we were like oh yeah we should talk about the drama

703
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:38,840
like oh yeah forget about that say we literally originated it's heavy originated drama but

704
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:44,200
we should bring people on here to hack out this shit yeah just transfer and quit it here like

705
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:53,320
just come on here next week on game from stargaze and jake from stargaze in the form really from

706
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:59,880
the symbol formerly known as stargaze right there's stargaze so um near me what about yours

707
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:07,080
and end is don't forget about yours for hay thing is the whore hay is just i get i guarantee whore hay

708
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:13,480
is the nice guy stood in the corner being like guys guys guys please make it stop whore hay is

709
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:19,560
honestly the most in the world this guy i had a very lovely dinner with him he's a very kind man

710
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:25,960
he's just so lovely he's just very kind as um he has a very smart very intelligent um yeah come on

711
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:31,560
guys don't be like that let's all sit together have a nice cup of tea and talk this out i i feel

712
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:39,960
like whore hay was almost like moment out of fire yeah now i'm curious about other uh wallets on

713
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:44,840
stargaze like did shane and whore hay make you know a decent amount i hope they did right

714
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:52,440
not decent enough though yeah it's community time to get out the shit dig in shovel there's a there's

715
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:59,560
a chippy uh there's a hippie a few miles south of uh of where i live uh i cycle past quite a bit i

716
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:07,240
think is a chip shop i think it's a chippy it's called um aptos and stargaze i'm not even fucking

717
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:14,360
kidding it's literally called that and every time i ride past it on my way to the the station down

718
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:20,520
there uh sometimes i have to go down there to get trains i'm like ah my delegation strategy but now

719
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:27,160
can i trick you know can i continue you know i'm obviously gonna keep our stars i think this is

720
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:32,680
a good chain but um yeah so are we talking about like french fries when you say chips

721
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:37,080
because i was talking about like okay all right just make sure because i don't i don't know what

722
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:42,200
people are talking about a fish and chip shop a fish and chip shop fish and chips got it yeah you

723
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:49,080
may have heard fries and chips um materially different things are they are they completely

724
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:55,240
different to french fries that french fries french fries and not chips okay what what's the difference

725
01:06:55,240 --> 01:07:04,280
uh well the fried is a long skinny piece of potato deep fried no a chip is a fat boy no deep

726
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:09,640
fried yeah chips okay so what's a fat boy they're all fried like he's like it's like

727
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:15,480
it's got more potato content than fucking fat content you know we would call it like a like a

728
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:20,200
steakhouse fried yeah okay like you know what i mean like like uh either skin on or skin off but

729
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:27,080
something that's cut into large slices like inch wide you because it's the whole potato as well you

730
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:33,320
get the edges so yeah you get the skin those are all fries in the us and then you get some of the

731
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:40,840
bits and pieces still fries yeah let's grab another unit of measurement as well it's

732
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:44,840
sucked up no it's just a fry that's it all right we got 18 minutes and i want to talk about the

733
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:51,160
ledger drama let's talk about let's do it ledger me out ledger drama here here's the ledger drama

734
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:56,920
so ledger this was first announced so here's how it transpired at like 3 a.m they pushed a commit

735
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:02,680
to their get hub and in the get hub there was a change log where they're like oh with this change

736
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:07,480
we can now shard private keys and send them to companies or something it's pretty inane like that

737
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:13,960
and naturally someone saw it and was like hold on a second the hell is this and what it came to be

738
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:18,440
was ledger ledger is coming out ledger the hardware wallet that is is coming out with

739
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:23,880
a new product called ledger recover they weren't it seems like to me that they weren't prepared to

740
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:28,600
actually like announce this yet it was because someone was trolling the change log ledger recover

741
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:34,920
what you do is basically you subscribe to it's $10 a month and if you subscribe to it you accept a

742
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:39,880
transaction on your ledger and that will shard your private key and send it to three different

743
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:45,720
companies those three companies then have to like get your driver's license or passport or something

744
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:50,360
in order to have like a vigil identifier but the purpose is with those shards with two out of three

745
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:57,080
of them you can then rebuild your private key with those shards right so the drama in this one of

746
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:01,560
the many dramas in this like there's a lot of issues if it's all based on identity and we can

747
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:07,160
deep fake something is it put potentially you might be able to deep fake like a video call or

748
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:11,640
something but anyway ignoring that ignoring like government actors that can go to a company and

749
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:18,280
be like okay well you have a shard and i want it ignoring that the implication there is ledger

750
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:25,160
does in fact have access to your private key when it was promised that they don't uh they cannot get

751
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:29,080
it from your from your hardware they couldn't re-extract it thank you yes that's about right

752
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:32,920
I think that goes the other way or or but I don't know if we know that it doesn't mean that the user

753
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,280
has to reimp... well we can get to that if they have to re-impot it or they can actually just it's

754
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:41,560
just a firmware and now it extracted but could it just be a proof that comes from the private key

755
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:46,040
because if you know wait yeah no there's no way I'm doing that cryptographically is that

756
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:51,240
at some point they would have to cut they would have to slice that key up right like if they are

757
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:56,360
doing that and even if they even if they have if they mix a salt in there or the users passcode

758
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:00,600
plus something from ledger or something else right they they still would have to have the full

759
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:05,560
key knowledge to be able to do that and they do they've said that they do yeah you have to accept

760
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:11,240
the transaction it'll go in it'll get your key it'll basically turn it into three different

761
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:15,880
through seven shards it won't have your secret recovery phrase your mnemonics because that's

762
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:21,240
only generated on the fly but that's another kind of point that people are getting lost in like

763
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:25,000
your secret recovery phrase your mnemonic is hiding your private key if they've accessed your

764
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:31,320
private key that's more serious than them having access to mnemonic yes but whatever um right so

765
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,200
and then this is different from what trezor does because we were talking about this as well so

766
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:39,160
trezor has a trezor trezor they have something similar we're not similar they have something

767
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:46,600
where you can shard the key at the time of creation right and i don't even know if you can do this if

768
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:50,760
you recover a key i assume you could but you can't do if you recover it has to be a new generator

769
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:55,480
a key has to be newly generated key okay that's that's the key point to me sorry yeah no so so

770
01:10:55,480 --> 01:11:00,520
trezor is the thing where if you generate a new key at the time of generation during that generation

771
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:07,000
process it can shard those and create three separate pieces with some passcode on top of that or

772
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,680
multiple passcode i don't know what the hell works and then you can be able to distribute that out to

773
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:15,800
two or three others if you want to be able to do that up to 16 even oh really oh you oh yes you'd

774
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:20,280
be like seven of 15 or whatever the hell you want that yeah eight of 15 and i think that's that's one

775
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:25,560
of the big issues for me with this is that they're actually using shamir backups for the key that's

776
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:30,280
what really annoys me so there's the ledger has the capability of doing a backup but they don't

777
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:35,480
allow it for users apparently um and my issue is that trezor i think the way they go about is really

778
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:40,600
smart where if you create your wallet then we can do a backup now if we don't do a backup now we're

779
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:46,520
not doing it full stop ledger then allowing it allowing the private key to be access to create

780
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:50,920
a backup that bothers me i don't know if it should bother me i don't know if there's a meaningful

781
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:57,560
difference there but it does i guess it's happening before in trezor's situation it's happening before

782
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:03,080
it's put into the secure element type of idea and so once it's in there it's in there is that the is

783
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:07,160
that the difference i guess because i guess in this situation i think people are really going

784
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:11,400
to apeshit around on this ledger thing is that the idea that the firmware is being changed where

785
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:16,360
that secure element can be read right there really is a demeaning feel different so the way that

786
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:21,960
hardware wallets work is a very high level abstraction right there's like there's three

787
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:25,640
aspects to using hardware wall right you've got your client so that's like made a mask and then

788
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:29,880
you've got your app which is on the ledger and then you have the secure element itself right so

789
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:34,600
there's there's three components so the client will then send a transaction to the app the app

790
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:40,760
will then interface with the secure module which the secure module will then actually do a return

791
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:46,840
of the private key to the app so the private key exits the secure module on the ledger the important

792
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:53,160
part is that these two things like the the the app and the ledger are isolated so the the private

793
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:59,560
key while it is taken out of secure enclave it is still like it's still only on the device

794
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:05,160
and then the response is sent back to the client right yeah the ledger recover my issue with that

795
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:11,160
is that it then leaves the device fully but going back to the original question about the tracer

796
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:17,400
so i don't i don't think it's a meaningful difference that it's split up yeah like before it

797
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:22,440
goes into enclave or not i think it's just like having an understanding of what what can access

798
01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:28,440
or and what where the key can go once the key has been set right it's like it's the user story the

799
01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:34,200
user's expectations now the expectation is oh well the the key obviously can now exit the

800
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:39,640
hardware device when previously that was like that that wasn't allowed right right so if and then

801
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:45,000
that's only up to the like the applicates like you said it's because the application can do it

802
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:51,960
and so they programmed an application that can do it so the real the smartest story here for

803
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:57,160
for ledger and i assume that i've only loosely followed this so i don't know what their their

804
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:02,680
corporate line is but is to presumably just say well look for it folks you know this is why you

805
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:07,640
should do your own research for apps you're installing on device because they all yeah how do

806
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:13,560
you think we upgrade you know when there's changes to these to the to change that mean something

807
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:18,120
meaningfully changed about the way they sign you run an upgrade on your ledger and it continues to work

808
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:23,080
look now stop and think a second about what that means that the software that's interacting with

809
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:28,520
your ledger device and the software on it can be upgraded and that software can touch your key

810
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:35,640
so it follows it follows that if something malicious were to happen with that software

811
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:42,280
you would be in i believe the technical term is a spot of bother so there's a whole bunch

812
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:46,360
of interesting things there but i think like you say probably the biggest problem is it's

813
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:53,160
it's the expectations of the user who's assume this is fork knocks rather than an embedded device

814
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:58,360
running some software yeah and i think the issue also is like hold on i gotta think about how to

815
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:03,480
how to word this um i'm not thinking a good way of wording it i guess i guess by

816
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:10,120
yes well i think you go ahead no go ahead well i think the other thing i think i was noticing

817
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:15,320
a difference in these two different models is that ledger like that hardware device does allow you

818
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:20,680
to recover a key that exists and i'm not sure how many other hardware devices do that because i think

819
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:24,520
i was looking at a tweet i'll put in the show notes as well but there's a tweet from somebody from the

820
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:30,680
from the trust infrastructure team at apple and and so ledger his point was that the his or her i

821
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:35,160
don't know um the ledger is following properties that cd is the cd is user provided in clear text

822
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:40,280
the cd is encrypted by the device key derived from a user passphrase and a ledger owned shared key

823
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:44,440
that's burned into every device when the device is locked or when the cd is exported right which

824
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:49,240
you need to mix of both the hardware as well as the passphrase i'm providing again that's why if

825
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:53,720
i put in three times it it deletes it right no i kind of shit here it can only leave the device

826
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:57,560
encrypted if these are wants that with the same guarantees that the current model which allows

827
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:03,080
exporting keys in an encrypted way through a user provide passphrase already unlike apple secure

828
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:07,080
enclave which doesn't allow you to provide pre-existing keys and only to create them within

829
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:11,400
the scp which i think is the same way that we were talking about with them in that situation the treasure

830
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:17,400
treasure the device has to create it right um it can't be like user input to be able to do that

831
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:22,040
it's just saying it's a different model and so ledger's firmware has always been upgradable and

832
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:24,920
you're already trusting them with the device in the first place the passphrase and cryptic

833
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:28,360
key can now get exported in a three-way split to three different institutions so so the so the

834
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:33,480
so the implication there is what it uh go ahead so the implication there is i i'm not that familiar

835
01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:40,120
with how treza works but can you not upgrade the software on treza then because the i could be wrong

836
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:46,520
but my understanding would be that in the treza case the any software you install on device can

837
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:51,240
interact with the private key that's inherently how it must work like that's how hardware wallets

838
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:57,240
work right so at the root of all this where the other wallets are like ah but we we don't let you

839
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:01,720
recover your key after the fact which don't get me wrong i think is probably a feature in another bug

840
01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:07,160
they're also they're also kind of just quietly not mentioning the real thing that i think is

841
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:13,160
freaked users out like which is basically what schultz said which is that users i think don't

842
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:19,240
have the right mental model for how that software is actually able to access your private key right

843
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:24,040
and i think that's the same across the hardware wallets if i've understood correctly and if i

844
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:30,440
understand hardware wallets which let's face it i probably don't i think that's correct um one other

845
01:17:30,440 --> 01:17:35,880
note i'll make is that uh if you go on ledger live unless you go into development mode every

846
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:41,880
single app and every single version of that app that is on ledger live has been reviewed by ledger

847
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:47,800
they've said that this app is not going to export your key anywhere however if you go and install

848
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:54,040
a dev app like i don't know as an example um i know i know a lot of us have the desmos app

849
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:58,440
installed that's that's a that's a dev app they could have exported the private key doing that

850
01:17:58,440 --> 01:18:02,440
because we basically side loaded it right didn't didn't they ask for the private key when they first

851
01:18:02,440 --> 01:18:06,200
launched remember that they're like then they're desmos wallet or something like that why'd you

852
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:11,080
to input the yeah they why didn't they remember that yeah yeah i forgot about the year drop what a

853
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:15,160
great coincidence shove your shove your key in here even if you got a ledger just you can export it

854
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:20,120
they were the ones walking around in lisbon with uh with hoodies that said end human slavery

855
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:26,920
nice unironically they were like they were like that is our marketing slogan lads let's print a

856
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:33,560
hundred hoodies this this does not make us look like we literally have never stepped foot in the

857
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:40,600
real world before oh my goodness sorry you were saying schultz no that's basically it like there's

858
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:45,960
a lot of different vectors here and if you are using the basic two apps of like madmask and

859
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:51,640
like the bitcoin app then you're you're safe what there are a couple answers i would like

860
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:57,320
like and and todd in the chat has a couple good questions he said uh the question i would like

861
01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:01,240
to have answered is that is this a new command available under normal operation or only in

862
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:05,880
management install mode and i think that's kind of the point that i was coming to in like there's

863
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:10,040
different sections like when you're starting it up it's in a different mode right versus like normal

864
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:14,120
mode uh what he's saying normal operation that that's kind of what it's getting as well as like if

865
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:18,520
it's in the very beginning that's whenever it's available and that's it fine under an operation

866
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:23,320
that kind of bothers me and another question is like if it requires a separate app like does it

867
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:28,200
require a separate app to export it or when you're on ledger live do you just click you know export

868
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:33,400
my private key here whatever once i've subscribed basically i just need more information to make a

869
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:38,760
full full judgment yeah but right now i'm not too concerned like i have ledger stacks preordered

870
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:43,160
and i'm not kind of cancel it there's just i'm honestly for what we do there's not others that

871
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:48,120
are as large in terms of like cli interfacing another i mean i know there's a lot of examples

872
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:54,360
we've been talking about the uh what's the one we were just talking about with um uh keystone

873
01:19:54,360 --> 01:20:00,360
keystone thank you yeah yeah and i saw uh sonny put a pretty large list out for it because he was

874
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:06,360
talking about how many different both hardware wallets and like software um wallets he has like

875
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:10,520
in in chrome or something like that he has like 10 hardware wallets and there's a lot of options out

876
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:15,000
there but like just the integration at the kepler side or whatever you know chrome extension there

877
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:19,000
is and then all of a sudden and also from a validator perspective some of the tools that we use

878
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:24,520
are only cli and so you just can't assume that there's going to be qr code support on every

879
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,200
single you know thing that you're running right and a lot of that's the ledger is the leader in

880
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:31,800
those types of things unfortunately fortunately or unfortunately i guess however you want to think

881
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:36,600
about it but it's there's not a lot of options for some i guess it's all just risk management

882
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,760
after a point though isn't it like you can split them up you can put them you know have only the

883
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:47,080
cosmos app on the cosmos ones and have different key systems and you end up with 10 different ledgers

884
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:51,960
for different use cases and you know at the end of the day if you install the wrong app on them

885
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:56,040
you're still you're still fucked uh if you're walking around with it in your back pocket and

886
01:20:56,040 --> 01:21:00,440
somebody hits you over the head with a hammer you're still fucked um so it's all about like

887
01:21:00,440 --> 01:21:07,400
layered security in terms of like physical cyber hardware software like it's all those different

888
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:14,760
things um and eventually it's just about risk i suppose isn't there after a point uh yeah it's

889
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:19,640
it's a it's right and like what really is a vector here um associated that so i mean there's the

890
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:26,200
fucking twitter is going nuts though yeah i i didn't well well we're talking about just out of

891
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:32,920
curiosity just like ledger and i was like holy shit okay yeah homo simpson backing into the

892
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:37,320
hedge i was like okay everybody's angrier than i am i'm just gonna back away from this one actually

893
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:42,520
i'm yeah we'll see what happens i i do agree what you said i think what you said initially was like

894
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:48,200
this came out and i don't think they were ready at all like even that ce or c or cto or posted

895
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:53,880
that that note and read it like that note was so dismissive and it was just like i don't think they

896
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:57,400
realized like what a fucking shit storm was brewing and then like somebody just do like yeah

897
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:03,560
it's no fucking big deal and like like read the room dude no one no one to shut the fuck up and

898
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:09,000
wait for somebody who knows how to handle angry mobs to get involved yeah and they haven't really

899
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:13,720
answered any questions they keep putting on like the same thread of like how it works and that same

900
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:19,000
thread doesn't really answer anything and people are like so is this a yes or a no and then they

901
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:24,680
just don't respond yeah right exactly yeah you're like well you you could solve this like like i

902
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:29,800
feel like you're just missing like like eight words and and those eight words would solve it right like

903
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:37,320
it yeah yeah i agree it's pretty crazy hey so anyway ledger's not going anywhere unfortunately

904
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:41,160
right now they're just not going anywhere uh i mean somewhere that's not going anywhere

905
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,280
oh there's no we've always thought about the secret chainhold that would have been good segue

906
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:51,160
where are you talking about i would we're past my i'm so tired i literally can't even share the

907
01:22:51,160 --> 01:23:01,080
no because because ten weeks baby it's never any party um getopia launched we yes i did today oh

908
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:05,960
i'm so excited about good yeah that's fucking rug we got fucking rugged out of those tests that so

909
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:12,920
quickly um and then we're inactive and it was just a fucking pain in the earth so we we failed but

910
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:18,040
you should check if you have any uh rewards in your test net wallet really yes you should

911
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:21,080
and delegate them to me because i'm falling out of the set already because i'm not running an

912
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:27,240
auto compounder every eight seconds is get hope you're gonna make it though i hope so i think that's

913
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:36,600
the hot take the rest of these chains are fine yeah i don't know i think i like it i think it's too

914
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:41,480
early i don't think of course you're the stable get hope you're the stable would make it get

915
01:23:41,480 --> 01:23:49,320
hope here with his own token with no uh exogenous security is ngmi hot take they go i don't know

916
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:53,720
is it does it need that conceptually though i think it's a really cool idea i think that

917
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:57,320
i think that one of the things cryptic can do really well is is feeding into the open source

918
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:03,560
ecosystem um and i i don't know i like i really just need it as a tool i agree with you like if

919
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:07,880
you if you buy as the whole like dowels do everything dowel ship code dowels do this like

920
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:14,680
ibsc message to upload some code to a giri pope yeah 100 hot take before the rug hot take before

921
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:23,480
the rug would it be so bad if app chains just used usdc coin as their base token instead of

922
01:24:23,480 --> 01:24:30,040
having their own coin would that be so bad and then you know create a product that works so that

923
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:37,400
you can get revenue from usdc piped back into like some some team coffers or something like that

924
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:43,560
i mean why have your own token why not just use a stable coin just use the good old-fashioned

925
01:24:43,560 --> 01:25:09,880
petro dollar the galt standard