Yeah, fuck it.
Like, we're just gonna have to make up as we go along.
It's usually, I suppose, like, what are you gonna do?
Oh.
["Wake Up"]
Welcome to Game of Nodes,
a weekly podcast on the cosmos
from independent validator teams.
Hello, welcome to Game of Nodes,
a weekly podcast on the cosmos
from independent validator teams.
Where am I?
In the real life, where am I, right now?
So the context here is I've been in bed
with a nasty flu or something for the last 48 hours.
And I reheated my corpse and crawled out of bed
because the show must go on in the words of Freddie Mercury.
We were just talking about the infamous Dowdow episode
where there were a number of bong hits being ripped off camera.
And so like the equivalent for those of us
who aren't that cool is a cup of warm red bush tea
with honey, good for the throat.
So I'm gonna be ripping some tea hits
during the course of this podcast.
Hey, you know what?
There was another funny Dowdow thing happened this week,
which was, I think it was Noah,
just had like a mini thing, like not a serious thing,
but it was like, it's like,
why does everybody call it Dowdow with no space?
It's definitely Dowdow, Dowdow, Dowdow with the space.
And then I think Lerturt who launched the,
you know, the bundling, it's kind of like,
almost like OTC trading thing.
I can't remember what it was called,
it was Fusion on Juno,
where you basically bundle a bunch of assets,
set a price and somebody can buy the assets.
It's kind of cool.
Like Defund?
What's that?
Like Defund?
Well, no, because it's not like an ETF.
It's just buying and selling.
It's not like, it's not tracking a basket of assets.
Just the grab bag of shit.
Yeah, if you just have like a whole bunch of shit coins,
you just need to get rid of, you know, you can,
You really need the OTCs.
You can do that shit, right?
So, yeah, so Noah's popping off.
He's like, it's never been Dowdow without space.
And Lerturt just like finds a bunch of tweets
where Zeke is just posting about new Dowdow features
and he's just posting Dowdow's one word.
And it's these are like clearly massive discord
in the Dowdow team lack of direction.
That's the best tweet to run away.
I thought it was like, is it two words?
I was certain that it was one word.
I thought it was one word too.
I was certain it was one word.
And then, I guess I was able to do two
because that tweet wouldn't have blown up if it hadn't.
It is one word because we said it's one word
and our opinion is obviously more important
than the implementers and maintainers of the project.
So, on the subject of tweets,
we're bringing back the drill tweet of the week.
Are we?
Do we have to though?
Okay, the subject is Twitter.
Wait, doesn't that mean the subject is company X, right?
Didn't you just rename it?
They did?
Yeah, I think Twitter is now renamed to company X
like the official company of it.
Okay, well, it's unimportant for this book published in 2018.
The tweet, sorry, the drill tweet about Twitter
that my fingers landed on is,
I have posted at length regarding my name balls
at the cost of my family, my career and my dignity.
The least you can do is rack up my faves.
There we go.
Hear first.
Sensational, another sensational piece of wisdom.
Try to remember why we dumped that idea.
The master of the shit place.
Why would we get rid of that?
The thing is, right, obviously they're in name,
that's the whole point,
but then sometimes you'll be in a situation where,
like let's say you've been doing a contract
for a couple of years or maybe a year,
because obviously IR35,
you probably haven't been doing it for one, two years.
And you're kind of in that,
you know when you do a long contract
and you're just like, what the fuck am I doing this again?
The people are dumb, the money's okay,
but I just, I need to go do something else.
This is fucking insane.
And then you'll think of a drill tweet,
you'll be like, I have posted about my inane balls
on this website at the cost of my family,
my career and my dignity.
The least you could do is rack up my faves.
And you're like, that is exactly my situation.
I've done this inane contract at the cost of my family,
my dignity and my balls.
The least you can do is rack up my bank balance.
So anyway, that's the wisdom of drill.
Okay.
You don't see very convinced.
This kind of feels a little bit
like the master and commander thing.
But it's another not Bong hit rip.
What we're gonna do is,
do you guys have albus oil in America?
Is that a thing?
No.
I don't know what that is.
Yeah, what is that?
I have literally no fucking clue what's in it
other than it's something,
if you are looking unwell,
my grandma would put on a hanky and shove in your face.
And it is,
it's like a
almost painful.
It's so intense,
but it's really good for clearing the sinuses.
Obviously ill baby,
because I'm everybody's ill in the house.
And I was just like, oh, fuck it.
Let's just, let's just albus oil the kid.
But I was like, I'll just check online first.
It's so powerful.
It will literally kill the child.
So, you know, it's good thing you check these things.
Oh, you can't use it with the kid.
What?
So like chloroform,
like what are we even talking about?
No, I was just like, it's like peppermint.
You can look at this.
It's like a pretty.
I actually don't know what albus oil is.
I assume.
Juniper clove, you can look at this.
It's everything that
it's like men's sort of like, yeah.
Yeah, wintergreen.
Here that you have like Vicks,
like Vicks vapor rub.
Do you have that stuff?
It's just kind of the same type of thing.
Yeah, it's more intense.
Much more intense.
It's like, it's like,
you know, if you have like raw peppermint
and you're really, really strong.
Imagine that, but literally applied
straight up your nostril.
Like, but like wait, like it's in,
because it's a liquid.
If you put it on your finger
and then dabbed a bit inside your nostril,
it would literally,
I think it would literally give you a chemical burn.
You burn it.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's that intense.
It's a very, very.
You talking about Vicks?
No, we're talking about albus.
Old, old, old, old.
But apparently it can, it basically,
it can, there's one of the active ingredients
that slightly increases your heart rate
and babies can't regulate
their own heart rate very well.
So if you just like,
essentially just like put a hand key with it
and just go out next to their face,
their heart goes really quick
and they just go,
and they panic and they stop breathing.
And then you have to basically go and resuscitate them.
Good thing you fucking love it.
Jesus Christ.
To be fair, I wasn't gonna,
I wasn't gonna put it on a pillow
because I was like,
I was like, this stuff makes my eyes water.
I'm not just gonna put it on the baby's pillow
and just be like, lie on that for a day.
That seemed like a really bad idea.
See you in the morning.
I was gonna be like,
I was basically gonna take what I've got
and just like sort of go like,
there you go.
Kind of like what my ground did to me.
There you go.
Hey.
And then see if that reduced the crying.
I'm trying to remember if we,
I think we use Vicks.
I don't remember if that was,
I think there's an age limit on that as well,
but we use that here and there
that would should be pretty effective,
which is just trying to find something
to clear the nostrils since,
since they can't really suck in or blue things out
or whatever else right at that age.
So you just try to find something that blows through.
Well, there's also like using whiskey, right?
Yeah.
Kind of like grandmother.
Might be teeth as well.
But that's the tea thing, isn't it?
Yeah.
It's putting little booze on there.
Yeah.
Again, my kids, my kid will be,
they'll be fine then.
We're gonna get a crowd.
We got plenty of,
we got plenty of home remedies lying around.
Yeah.
The Vicks man, the Vicks don't work anymore.
They've changed the formula.
It's bullshit.
Oh really?
Yeah.
It's just my, my Mrs the other day,
she had a sniffle and we put the Vicks on
and it's like, well, this shit doesn't work anymore.
Still got the sniffle.
Or is it only working with kids?
I don't know.
No, it should work.
Yeah.
It's an age range where Vicks first checks
that you're under 16 and then it'll activate.
Oh, you're a minor.
You're a minor.
Off we go.
Okay.
It's peppermint, eucalyptus,
Cajiput, juniper berry oil,
wintergreen oil and clove oil.
It's literally every powerful random ass.
You've got a smell.
You've jammed into one unholy mixture.
Right.
I'm just like, just put this in your face.
And I wonder it's so fucking.
Oh, this smells pungent.
Let's fucking put this in there as well.
The thing is that this shit works.
It's amazing.
But it is one of those when you're like,
if you work in an office with lots of people
and you have it on a handkerchief in your pocket,
you'll be like standing somewhere
and then somebody a few steps away from you will be like.
What the hell is that?
He smells like.
That's like danker rub.
What's that?
That's like danker rub.
You get that?
Like the hot.
DP?
Yeah, yeah, like that.
It's that well.
If you have like a sporting injury,
you stick it on.
Yeah, you put it on there and it's a lot of shit.
And then fucking everyone in the buildings,
like so you like spray on your wrist or something.
Yeah, that's smell it.
I kind of like the smell of that.
Like I feel like it's one that is like perversely.
It should be like bad smelling and medicinal,
but it's kind of like root beer.
Like it's one of those things kind of vaguely medicinal,
but kind of tasty smelling.
Oh yeah, man.
Like root beer.
Yeah, we didn't have root beer.
You do have root beer.
We got fucking real beer.
You also have root beer.
But that root beer is literally Australian, mate.
Don't tell me you don't have root beer.
Bundaberg.
Yeah.
Yeah, but there's no Bundaberg root beer, is there?
Yeah, I literally had something Melbourne at a bar.
Fuck.
I've never seen it.
But then again, I'm walking up to the bar
and asking you fucking root beer.
Null shops in different aisles.
Yeah.
One root beer, thank you, Kyneser.
Well, you know, when all the beers start to piss,
you've got to have something not alcoholic.
Yeah, well, fuck.
I'm after 10 o'clock.
It's like, do I go for another coffee or a whiskey?
Whole of Australia is coming after me that.
So yeah, OK, right.
Well, that's 11 minutes of solid bullshit.
So this is like following on from your little pre-show there
of what in the fuck are we going to do?
We'll just roll with the punches.
So I would like to mention and there's
an NFT project that seems to be generating
a little bit of Twitter traffic.
And it's going to be minting very soon.
And I quite like the artwork.
I don't know if I'm willing to pay shitloads of money for it,
but I like it.
So what do you guys feel about artwork and liking it?
Are you talking about money for artwork you like on the blockchain?
Are you talking about the follow on the next set of?
Yeah, after the collection from by the bad kids folk.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I didn't see any of the artwork yet.
So is that they do a couple?
I don't got a page for it yet.
Yeah, it's just after the filter.com.
Oh, OK. It's got some some examples there.
It's all like a grayscale black and white.
It's about a post apocalyptic.
You're going to be in a place of inquiry.
You're just going to fucking a fucking posted it in the.
Yeah, please.
It's just in the chat in the normal chat.
I didn't put it in the private chat.
It's in the so the punters can also see it.
There you go. After the way punters click away.
Oh, it's this week.
It's Thursday and the mint. Oh, shit.
Yeah, fourteenth.
So yeah, is what's the what's the mint price?
Is it like eight million stargays per each one?
Nineteen hundred stars, which is probably like what, 19 bucks?
Uh, 20 bucks.
A little bit more now, right?
That's pretty recent. 0.017, I think.
Thirty two dollars.
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's so fucking it is a lot.
Is there a little I'm just going to buy as many as liquid stars I have.
And then I was like, oh, shit, I assume there's probably a limit per wallet, right?
Maybe a wireless limit.
The yeah, what was limited probably.
Back in the back, it's launched with like three per wallet or something like that.
I don't know how did that don kryptonian by like 40 of them?
Four different.
I guess. Yeah.
Yeah, send them around.
I bought some Genesis.
Well, I don't know what they call glitch candies.
I bought glitch candies from two wallets, which was obviously a very wise investment.
How much did you pay for those at the time?
You want to think about that or?
Look, look, OK, so what are they?
So they're really cool, man.
So so here's the thing, right?
We because of a combination of bad financial decisions and whatnot last year,
in terms of how crypto gets taxed and minor NFT degeneracy.
But that was really that was a rounding error on the general bad accountancy practices
here in the bunker, I would say.
We we literally made no money, like no sense, no dollars, no sense in income
for the majority of this this year.
So tax year is just ending for companies again in the UK now.
The last one ended just when the bear got to start to get bad, which is like a great time.
And yeah, like are you saying you've got a nil balance sheet
for the last one inch of years that we tell me?
No, so we basically we from the stuff that we have made this year,
we made a lot less in terms of absolute number.
But we have more in our bank account because we've been actually not stupid
about compounding or just all sorts of dumb activities that ends up with you having crypto
in your company balance sheet and not pound sterling because you can't pay your rent in fun
to quote Jeff Rosenstock.
Or indeed your tax bill.
HMRC wants wants to taste and does not accept you know, or star HMRC.
Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, obviously Her Majesty.
Her Majesty.
Although her Majesty is dead.
So yeah, get the button I've because she's toast.
So wait, who died?
Jesus.
Her Majesty.
Yeah, she's yeah.
Yeah.
Like the Elizabeth one.
Yeah.
Long gone.
Yeah.
What?
You get the memo down there?
Queen Elizabeth II.
It was the whole thing.
You fucking did.
We talked about it on here.
Yeah.
Say lovey.
We made it a one of one NFT for Game of Nodes to pay respects.
It just had a great big F on it.
Who's the boss now?
As of three weeks time, it's Charles, isn't it?
Chuck.
Ugh.
What a flop.
Yeah.
Fucking not as pop.
Like you might be able to, you might be able to detect a hint of the fact that I am a very
strong and ardent Republican.
For the Americans listening, it means a very, very different thing in the UK.
It means you want to just not before you go down.
It means you want to abolish the monarchy.
I made the mistake of saying that once to in a conversation over breakfast with an elderly
Latino American lady on a train in America when I was backpacking once.
She looked like I was going to physically hurt her.
I had to go, oh, hang on a second.
You're afraid of the fact that you think I'm an American Republican.
I was like, oh, it's okay.
I just want to get rid of the monarchy.
She was like, you have a monarchy?
I was like, oh, reminded the fact that not all Americans know about the weird shit that's
going on the rest of the world.
I was like, well, yes, we do.
Yes, we should get rid of them.
Anyway, I'm sorry for giving you a little fright, very nice old lady.
I can't remember what it was.
I asked her about something like a recipe and she told me some really good piece of
advice about making, I think it was Picard Gallo or something like that.
I was like, that's a really good idea.
I didn't write it down and it's gone forever.
Anyway, good train journey though.
Do you know conversely to that, I was talking to a chap on this screen right here about
American things and Steve Irwin was mentioned about how God damn Australian Steve Irwin
is and I was like, I didn't even know about Steve Irwin until he got fucking stabbed in
the chest with a fish and disgust and dismay ensued.
Apparently Americans are really fucking like Steve Irwin.
Yes, Steve Irwin dying was like a national tragedy and I was like, yes, don't fuck around
with the stingrays.
It's because he's basically like crocodile Dundee.
That's why Americans like him.
That's a nice.
Hey, we have like two good models, right?
We have Mr. Rogers and we have Steve Irwin and then Mr. Rogers died and then Steve Irwin.
We have no good role models at this point.
In the UK, we have a thing where all the people of that generation who were TV entertainers
turn out to be pedophiles and it's like it's literally like a thing of like there's a joke
that goes something like you see a beloved character mentioned in like a news ticker
and as the name rolls along, you're like, please be dead, please be dead, please be dead, please
there be a pedo, please be dead.
It's like they're dead and you're like, could it could have gone either way?
Could have gone either way.
Awesome.
That's not ruined because lots of them, lots of them.
Yeah.
Lots of them got operation you treat.
So it turned out that they were not not good people.
Yeah.
There was like a, I don't know if I would call it like a slander campaign, but people thought
that Mr. Rogers was a sniper in Vietnam for a long time.
And so that was passed around a lot in order to like discredit him for being this positive
actor, I guess.
But wouldn't that be like quite plausible is in like if you killed a bunch of people
and you were like, hmm, I actually don't think that that's the way I want to live the rest
of my life.
Right.
So, you know, Bob Ross was.
I was just about to bring him up.
He was stationed, he was army, right?
Or Marine.
He was.
Alaska.
Air Force in Alaska.
And he was, he was like a drill sergeant in the Air Force.
Yeah.
He was like the equivalent of that.
He was like a warrant officer or he was a sergeant, like a non-commissioned officer who had to
do a lot of shouting.
Right.
At young men who have joined the Air Force and a fucking station in Alaska and don't want
to do anything other than sky off and get high.
And then when he got demopped, he was like, I just want to fucking paint trees because
I've done all the shouting I ever want to do in my life.
That's right.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Bob Ross is up there too with Mr. Rogers and Steve Irwin.
There's a film coming out about him soon.
They don't know how like autobiographically accurate it is, but.
There's a couple of documentaries about him because there was that whole cluster fuck
with his paintings and everything else after he died.
And I think he had between his family or his wife or kids or something else.
There was some arguing around the legacy and who has rights for that and all that kind
of stuff.
Like there's a bunch.
Really?
Yeah.
I think after he passed, there wasn't clarity on some of that type of stuff.
And I thought it was a wife versus some of his kids from maybe a previous wife or something
similar.
I remember it was, but yeah, there was some drama associated with.
I know.
Hey, so.
Always something.
Back to the cosmos.
I've looked up this after the filter thing.
It looks does look quite cool actually.
And it says bad kids holders get priority.
And we're all right.
More bad kids holders.
We are.
I'm not a bad kids holder.
You want one?
You want to burn one right now?
I don't want to burn one.
I'll take one.
Holy shit, man.
I burnt maybe like 30 NFTs yesterday.
I just looked at my wall.
You didn't think that that was content for the show.
I mean, there was fucking like all these Donald Trump NFTs and all those Joe NFTs that are
fucking bored.
I was like, burn, burn, burn.
God.
It's fucking kind of had lads as well.
They need a good.
Well, we burnt the kind of had one on the podcast.
Yeah.
But I still have lunch.
I've got lunch as well.
But the answer question was for to check to check what the right.
I'm just going to go.
I'm going to go.
I'm going to go and look at Stargaze.
Like you guys, you guys, sorry, this episode really is the group chat.
I am actually going to go and look at stuff because I had no idea about it.
So there's, I mean, we can talk to the only other.
Okay.
So the only other thing that I know has happened this week, which kind of funny is that Stargaze
announced that they were going to do Dowdow or that.
They were, they were the Dowdow was launching on Stargaze.
And I was like, Oh, is that, is that like the outpost stuff?
Right.
Cause that's, cause that's, that's on the roadmap, right?
For Dowdow is like launch the out the, cause the ICA functionality is coming soon and then
outpost on them, on other cosmogen chains.
And I think the two that are targeted first are Osmosis and Stargaze makes a lot of sense.
Right.
The original OG cosmogen chains.
But I thought that it was all kind of bound up in mesh security.
So it was like, Oh, that was kind of funny.
And it turns out that like, I think the Stargaze were basically just for, for Dowdow and the
Shio Lo again.
And as far as I'm aware, Dowdow team don't have anything to do with it.
So that was, that's my funny thing that I found out today.
Anyway, I'm going to go, I'm going to look at this.
I'll be back in a second.
But with that, wait, go back before we leave the Dowdow thing.
So but the, that the term that you use, but the idea is that, that you be able to IBC
the use of Dowdow, be able to create a Dow structure and IBC the use across chains.
Is that right?
That's what that's what you're talking about.
You said you need mesh security for that.
Yeah.
So, well, I don't think you need mesh, but I think the idea is that the mechanism will
work better with them because, because then you're basically just cross-staking different
assets and presumably that would be in a Dow treasury.
I got you.
So that Dow securing their own treasury, treasury, excuse me, presumably with a bundle of tokens
rather than just their own asset, but I don't think it, I don't think it hard requires mesh
security, but I, it will, I assume require the ICA stuff, which I don't believe has been
launched yet.
But somebody who follows, leaks Twitter a lot more closely could probably tell you,
be like, bullshit, it's already been launched in which case, in the fair enough.
But I think their general implementation model, I mean, we could literally fucking roll, we
could literally go back and watch our episode, the Bong, the Bongrip episode, and I'm sure
there would be some alpha in there about the exact time scale here.
But from memory, it's similar to the Mars outpost strategy and it's still a little bit
in the pipeline.
But I gather it's, I gather it's soon.
There's some kind of, there's some kind of additional library stuff that Zeke was doing
that has a different name, which I gather is soon.
And so, I mean, maybe knowing that scene, they ship a lot.
Maybe it'll be this quarter or next, all of a sudden, in which case.
And so, and then so the Stargaze team basically, they just forked it, like they're going to
stand up.
But I guess that would be.
Yeah, that's my, that's my understanding.
It's permissioned.
So they're not, they're not really standing up Dowdow, but they're, they're using the
structure to create just the dowels that they need for Stargaze.
I think I'm just going to, I assume just grab the wasms and deploy it all on, on Stargaze
themselves and deploy the UI.
Wouldn't you need, wouldn't you need, wouldn't it need to be, hmm.
So the permission part of that with the permission, with the permission allow, could you basically
run Dowdow as it is on Juno on Stargaze in a permission model?
Or do you, or since those are, are those each one of those things a separate contract when
they create a Dow?
They are all separate contracts.
So what the, the, I assume it's to allow NFT creators to create dowels around their NFTs,
but yeah, that makes sense.
I mean, I actually don't, I'm not really a hundred percent sure that it could work that
well in a permission model, but, um, right.
It's pretty, oh yeah.
So Rama has just said in the chat presumably to use the NFT Dow portion.
Yeah, exactly.
I think that is the, so to create, right, to create permission groups based on NFT holders.
Right.
But then the difficulty there is that I think they'd have to modify, I think they basically
have to modify their Wazim D from memory to allow you to launch contracts via just that
contract, which requires some additional hooks.
And at that point you're getting a little bit into T-Wazim territory rather than X-Wazim.
I guess I understand the fork now because it's different.
I guess I understand why that, why they wouldn't use it across Juno and all that kind of stuff
right?
I guess it's, it is a separate implementation that's pretty specific for that use, I guess.
Well, what's all we're getting here?
Well, it makes more sense to just use ICS-721 and just make the Dow in Juno because then
you don't have to do any fucking about and it's all the codes is already written for
you and just kind of works.
But, um, but if they don't want to, but if they don't want to allow, well, if they don't
want to allow NFT groups to be able to have a token based Dow or they want to have a membership
based and they just want to be NFT only.
I don't know how you, then you're basically adding to that structure to create rulesets
that are restrictive versus what's available in Dow-Dow.
Yeah.
It kind of, I mean, it basically seems like quite a lot of a fat, like re-implanting the
wheel to me, but you know, what do I know?
I don't know what your plan is.
I discussed earlier, I literally don't know how to do business or make money or journey.
You know, whatever the fuck it, I don't even know how to be well.
So, um,
I don't know how to be well.
That's, that's from my learning for the last 48 hours.
Well, though, to be fair, again, um, today's episode gave me a notice that's sponsored by
Albus oil, the natural remedy for, uh, no, it's not, but it, look, hey, look, if Albus
oil, if you guys are listening, reach out to us.
I will show the shit out of your product.
It's fantastic.
Don't use your babies.
Just don't use it.
Okay.
That's the, just don't use that shit on babies.
Um, cool.
I thought we were supposed to, we had different, we had different sponsorship, right?
What was the other sponsorship we had?
Oh, heating oil.
Yeah.
What the fuck is that?
Bring it on with that.
I can't read that.
I can't read it.
And, uh, so what, what do you guys think about like actual just paid licensing for things
like Dow Dow?
Like, yeah, you can use it.
You just got to pay us so we can continue to develop it.
Like they have no other revenue.
So like, is that an option or is that just like two taboo in the fucking, this decentralized
world?
That's what the token should be for, right?
The token should be in order to, let's say create a Dow, then you need to buy, or maybe
you need to burn a thousand Dow or something like that.
Right?
Like they need to develop some sort of tokenomics around the fact that you're using their product.
Yeah.
Or couldn't it be something like, wouldn't it, he's literally left.
He's not even there.
Yeah.
He has a question that he bounced.
He's like, all right, I did my part.
I'm out of here guys.
No, I couldn't.
I'm out of here, it's just not fucking.
That is, that is the level of respect we have to watch.
But it's like, hey, you guys discuss this, but I don't really care about your business.
And then he goes and grabs 2% milk.
No.
Do you drink 2% because you think you're fat?
Because you could drink whole milk if you wanted.
Wait, what's 2% milk?
Full cream.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Wow.
So, whole milk is, it's a red cap.
2% is, is a full cream.
In the UK, the weakest milk is red cap.
It's really.
Yeah.
The whole, the heaviest is gold cap.
And then blue.
I'm sorry.
Did you just call me fat?
It's a reference from Napoleon Dynamite.
So yes, I did.
God damn it.
I mean, I really enjoyed your coffees.
I wish you would come and be in my cupboard so I can just wake up in the morning and get
a nice 50% whole milk, 50% oat milk, bloody baristed masterpiece as opposed to my like.
What is that?
Why is that?
What did you do to that coffee?
Fucking shit.
It's like a half and a half.
Why is it for me?
It's like, it's just, it's instant coffee with milk in it.
What do you want to do with it?
So I've got like one of those, so you probably guys don't even know what I'm talking about.
Over here we, so you guys, you put your drip shit into like a cup and then you put the
creamer in there, this little fucking sachet of like high fructose corn syrup or whatever.
There's like some sort of rocket fucking fuel that you put in there.
Over here, the typical like, I can't be fucked to make anything nice coffee is you put your
instant coffee is just like this powdered shit into a, into a cup and then like, it's
like a, yeah, yeah.
It's like this freeze dried stuff.
And then you like two thirds fill your cup with hot water and then you just like top
it up with milk.
So it's like a third milk, two thirds water, swill.
And so I've, I've got some actual good coffee making materials back here.
That was just like it's a little bit hard to do on the poker.
So I've got the grinder and like a thing called a mock-up hot that you put on the stove.
A Schiltz Schiltz knows my vibe.
And then, but I don't have like a milk steamer, right?
So I've got like this milk froffer thing.
It just spins around and heats it.
And it like froths the milk a little bit and heats it up to put him there with your,
with your espresso shot.
So I did one day just out of curiosity, put just milk into my frother thing and then put
the freeze dried coffee in that while it was spinning.
It's actually pretty good.
It's like a lot thicker, more rich sort of experience than this watered down fucking
milk, swill shit.
It did that.
That sounds great.
I'm trying to figure out why it's split 50-50.
Like why is that foamed up?
Is that because of the spinny piece?
Oh, no, it's a gripper in the middle of the.
Oh, okay.
Oh, I missed it.
All right.
Okay.
I'm my bad.
On camera it looked like it was like a half and half or something.
With like, you know, a black ring of fucking oil in the middle.
No, I just, I didn't see the bottom.
So it looked like it looked like it was just, okay, I get it now.
Yeah.
Okay.
It sounds awful.
Yeah.
Interesting night last night.
I had one AM wake up call for the say upgrade, the say Atlantic to upgrade.
And then so I had three alarms set last night, right?
I had one AM for the, for the say Atlantic upgrade.
Then I had, I was hoping that went nice and quickly so I could get like a little bit more
shut eye.
And then I had two AM for the say, um, Validator call, right?
And then I have like 530 AM for the, for the podcast cause I six 30 AM for the podcast
cause it's now seven AM my time when we do the podcast, the group chat.
And so anyway, the call wasn't at last night.
Isn't the community called tomorrow?
Yeah.
Okay.
So I'm like, I woke up, clicked the link and everything.
I was just on the wrong day.
I'm like waiting around for like 10 minutes for people to show up and I'm like, oh wait,
check.
They still not live.
No, it's.
It's not.
Okay.
Yeah.
Holy shit.
You guys, you're so stoked on it.
I assumed it was live and you were making money on it.
Like you're doing a lot of work for a testnet.
I'm just saying.
I mean, it's like a interesting testnet.
It's like all the other tests nets are pretty benign because they're mostly vanilla, um,
cosmos.
I honestly don't know why they're testing them.
They should just fucking launch it.
Yeah.
All right.
I mean, they do have their custom modules that they need to test it.
So anyway, uh, this is actually looking pretty good.
If you guys looked at your, your misrate since you, um, since the upgrade, then what, why
don't you just let, why, why were you getting up for that?
Why didn't you just let Cosmoviris advisor do its thing and then trust it?
Jesus.
I mean, I haven't had a problem.
You trust it until pager duty calls you.
Hey, just trust it until pager duty decides to call you.
Pager duty doesn't always wake me up though.
So if there's a, if there's an event that I know I should be having one eye on, I just
send an alarm to wake up.
Wow.
Do better.
Do better, man.
Seriously.
Is there any page duty like extremely ladder something?
Well, yeah.
So you can set up so it can like call you, um, under certain escalation escalation conditions.
Yeah.
You can have dual sorts of nonsense.
Yeah.
Like I have for test nets, like my, my escalation policies way, way slower, right?
Like, it's like call me tomorrow.
Yeah.
So escalation for test nets is don't.
Yeah.
No, it's like 24 hours or something.
Like it sends me an email and I have it in like the app and all that stuff, but I don't,
I don't get like a phone call for a day.
So here's a, here's an interesting comment from a badger bite.
Why don't you trust Cosmovisor?
Well, Mr. Badger bites, uh, back in the early days of Cosmovisor, you couldn't trust that
shit.
So it worked sometimes and then it didn't a lot of the time.
And so we're all scarred.
So I've been using Cosmovisor since 0.4.
I thought it was one point.
Oh, you've also had only on like four networks for some networks, they all like do the naming
wrong and that'll cause Cosmovisor to fail even still.
So like we still have to normalize all of our, all of our upgrade names because that
is, that is because of poor fucking discipline.
So he is capital.
You're a fucking idiot.
You should always, always normalize stuff to lower case.
That is literally like, I can't eat.
I had, I had a CTO once who was so fucking on it about that.
He literally would not type capital letters in text messages ever because he was like,
I don't want to see capital letters.
You just, you never see a capital I from him ever in a text message in slack.
That's great.
That's hilarious.
He was one of the most visionary technical people I've ever met or worked with in my
life.
So you're just like, he's eccentric, but he is like, right so much of the time that
I'm going to allow this cause I suspect he might also be right on this as well, despite
being a bit of a authoritarian.
I believe in the latest Cosmo or Cosmos upgrade had a capital, right?
And so they tell you to capitalize it, but Cosmo visor will underscore it.
It'll normalize it down.
So, so that, that, that badger is, is when it starts to fail.
I do think that the misrate is lower.
My stats say, I don't know if this is right.
I'm just looking at, I can't really tell from thing.
My stats say I was missing five blocks a minute over the seven day average on Atlantic two,
but the database was pretty fricking large for part of that structure.
But in the last hour, I've missed 2.37 blocks a minute.
So it's about half or a little bit less.
Yeah.
So it does look like it's less, it does look like it's down.
I'm not missing any blocks.
Bullshit.
My alleged is clean baby.
It's, it's, I mean, literally it's, we're missing 15, 40 validators.
Oh yeah, you gotta be missing something or it's not reporting correct.
We're missing 15 out of 40 validators.
What?
Yeah, it bounces around.
Uh, yeah.
Mine, mine, mine too.
Mine, mine too.
It says there's 40 active miss right now.
I'm missing, we're jumping between 10 and 14 missing consistently.
What's this like per minute?
Yeah.
If I get back, how long is the history on 10 to Judy?
90,000, I think.
Let me check.
No, no, that's a little thing at the top.
Maybe not a little tracking thing at the top.
10,000, isn't that 10,000 blocks?
Oh, that thing on top?
I think it's based on your, your monitor itself.
I think block pane is even in the thing.
So block pane.
I'll tell you.
Do you mean on the little UI?
Yeah.
I thought the UI was just like the last 100 blocks with 200 blocks or something, isn't
it?
So I've got full misses across that, uh, history on the UI there.
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean, at, at, well, the block time right now is still half a second before the upgrade.
Uh, what the fuck?
Oh, it's block processing.
Maybe I'm really focused.
Oh, okay.
So question to Ramar in the chat.
Sorry, everybody.
Um, I CS 999, which is kind of cool and interesting.
And obviously we've had Larry on the show before talk about various things, but not this.
Um, Ramar, you said, uh, 999 won't get mass adoption with a licensing model.
It's still, to my knowledge, a draft spec, isn't it?
Just a draft spec in a, in a hack MD document.
It doesn't have a licensing model.
Are you thinking of CWS DK?
Cause that has, uh, uh, closed, a closed license possibly.
Anyway, we'll wait for Ramar to back in.
UK shows.
So also the other thing that happened this week that I'm aware of is that you, sir,
per, uh, gave a Ted talk.
I did give a Ted talk.
Yeah.
It was fun.
Pretty exciting.
It's like available.
Can I post the slides?
I want to see the video.
That's what I want to see.
Oh, I think it was exciting.
You'll have to post the slides because that, that, that link is on my phone and I don't
know how to get it off.
As I'm reliably informed, it was basically like the end of dead poet society where all
the students got up and I stood on their desks and they all, do they salute or do they put
their hand on their heart at the end of that film?
I can't remember.
I think they put their hand on the heart, right?
They're all like captain, my captain to usurper.
And he did that and shed a little tear, rubbed his eye and got a little bit emotional.
And he was just like, he was like, I thought if I came here and I just, I touched one young
adult, it sounds a lot worse when you put it that way.
You know what I mean by just touch one heart, you know, with crypto.
So I, yeah, so it was a Joshua Tan who is part of Validator Commons.
Josh, Joshua is a great background in the house, but part of the Validator Commons group.
He's, he, I think he is the, I don't know about his background, but runs a group called
Metagov, I met them down at consensus cause we were at, at consensus last summer, we went
to a cosmos governance conversation and it was pretty deep actually.
And I met a bunch of people there and I met Joshua, then he's, he's here in town with
me.
And so we've, we've got out a couple, or one time and just be able to hang out a little
bit and just get to know each other.
And then he teaches a classic Carnegie Mellon and at CMU related to governance and a bunch
of types of things within web three and they has a class right now.
I think it's called, I don't know, governing many worlds, I think is what it's called.
And it's a, it's like 12 weeks or something like that.
And so one of this week, he asked if I would come in and talk a little bit around prop 16
and so, and the Juneau world.
And so there was a, there was three speakers.
One was really, they were talking a little bit around bit, the Bitcoin soft fork that
happened.
They were talking, there's another group that came in to talk about, I think it was constellation
at Dow to talk a little bit around the at Dow and then they want to talk a little bit
around prop 16.
So I did a little, I had to like, I was like, sure, yeah, at first I thought it was like
a, just like more of a round table conversation.
Then I realized that really I needed to do some education because nobody really knows
too much about the cosmos.
And so I just put together a little bit of a slides.
I try to remember to go back and, and talk about the, the course of events and some of
the things that, that we were thinking about from a validator perspective.
I went back to school, listened to some of our prop 16 components within game of nodes,
which is back like an episodes six, seven, eight, 10 somewhere in there and, and built
a small deck just to like try to get the group understanding of what we were thinking about
and kind of like more from a validator perspective of like, of this whole fucking disaster.
And so it was good.
Like it was just a 20 minutes kind of kept it tight around some of the information.
I'm trying to leave them with some questions, you know, to kind of think about what's happening
in the future and, you know, what do we learn out of this type of situation?
So it was good.
They asked some good questions.
Group asked some good questions and, and, and it was funny because like within, within
the first few minutes of those questions, like the idea of like, does POS work?
Like, is that going to survive?
Came up pretty quick.
Like the first like eight minutes of those questions.
It's like, yeah, we've talked about that a little bit.
So it was good.
It was fun.
We talked about that a little bit on game of notes.
Every Wednesday at 2100, UTC was what you say I said.
I did.
I left it, you know, I said, I said, you know, if you want, if you, you know, compared
to some of the other governance conversations, this prop 16 is like, it's a good use case.
Like it's a good conversation to have in the early days of, of trying to figure out what
the hell governance is in web three and the whole idea of having a small number of project
owners or core group that are decision makers and, and those types of things versus, you
know, the, the massive amount of delegators.
So in Twitter and Twitter fights and all that kind of stuff and kind of this idea on the
small group of people making decisions in a large group of community, who's trying to
understand what the hell's actually going on and, and just the inner fighting between
that and everything else.
I think it was a pretty interesting type of structure.
How cathartic was it for you?
I deliberately not, was it terrible?
I've tried not to think back on props and too much just because a little bit of PTSD
from that, but I imagine like having to go through and listen to videos and talking with
people and having to make a talk about it.
What I figured be cathartic as hell.
Yeah, it was, it wasn't too bad.
I guess it was, it was, it was good.
I actually, I spent some time with Freya on, on just to like make sure that my recollection
was correct, right?
Like these are things that happened in this order.
And I tried to stay away from some of the other things I knew that were happening behind
the scenes or that, you know, we found out later related to that and, and some of the
timelines of that.
So I, I tried to be very accurate in terms of just what the, what the, what the community
was thinking, what validators were thinking, you know, like I very specific around how
like I was pretty, pretty down on overall SDK governance processes, especially governors
or validators voting, non voting shares, which, you know, I've always been kind of a negative
around and how that fit into this as well, where really a validator had no right decision
in that structure.
Cause if they voted for immutability, you're kind of like, what the hell are we doing?
If you voted against it, you had to get a community up your ass.
So I talked about that a little bit.
We talked about the idea of like, of our validators responsible for the blocks that
they signed.
Um, and Joshua brought some, a couple case studies up where they have been responsible
for those blocks, um, which I, I was unaware of.
Um, and so that was actually, can we go back on that a little bit more?
I don't have the details.
Uh, he mentioned it, it would be in there, it would be in the recording, but there, there
was, I forget where that was.
Um, but there was in terms of both the jurisdiction of where the validator sat and those types
of things, but he can, you know, it might be something to have him, have him, have
those, somebody from Medigabond to talk about that a little bit.
Um, that'd be really interesting because I know that, uh, and on Bitcoin, I think there's
a link to child pornography or maybe there's child pornography on the chain itself.
So like, can you imagine being the person that are the validators that were that, uh,
post that block and then you'd be liable for it.
That.
Yeah.
We've talked about that look with, uh, IPFS notes too.
So IPFS notes, um, you know, we run some IPFS notes for Stargaze and, and you have some
controls over that, but you, I mean, you can control it where like, I'm only going to serve
items that are pinned and we pin everything, um, that comes through on the app and things
like that.
But there can be collections that aren't pinned.
And so you kind of want to allow, uh, you, you want to be able to allow some, uh, movement
of, uh, images that might not be pinned from a collection perspective that are still required
for the site, but that also means that you might be in, you might be in possession of
something that you do not want to be in possession of and you can't control that.
Right.
And so there's obviously there's blacklists for some, um, collections and things like
that, which is, which is pretty, um, it's easy to implement, but you, it's kind of like
mail spam, like how effective is it?
Right.
And so yeah, we've talked about that a little bit too, like what the hell are we doing?
Um, so anyway, it was a good, it was a good talk.
It was like 20 minutes.
Um, it was, it felt good to get, you know, go through some of that.
And I thought, uh, that the, like the, the overall, I just wanted to tell a story, right?
Is really what I was trying to do.
And I think that was at least effective.
And I thought that, um, everybody kind of understood the process of it.
Um, and I think as, you know, as the governance controls increase and as, um, you know, what's
being done within Dow, Dow and other types of things that kind of break down governance
into maybe little subgroups and other ways to be able to have more controls over that.
I think, um, you know, the idea of having, I think what we, some of the class ended up
was, was the idea of having something to be, can be mutable, meaning that chain can be
changed, uh, requires a level of governance that is extremely sophisticated.
And either you are running a code is law type of chain where it doesn't matter.
Right.
And even if it's wrong, even if there's fraud, it is what it is.
Or if it can be changed because of, because of this is the way it should be, and this
is right, um, not saying that this prop was, I'm just saying, if it, if it, something,
it needs to be changed, there has to be an incredibly amount of mature governance to
be able to do that.
Cause if it's just something that we went through with prop 16, it's, it's automatically
going to turn into a shit show.
So, um, and then that, that, that, you know, I think that might be just where, where we
are in the maturity of some of these tools and, and the, um, and, uh, the thought around
how this is going to work in the future.
So anyway, it was fun.
Did you talk at all about how around the conversation around how we as validators are in a sense,
um, kind of like continuously elected representatives.
Um, and the conversation around that compared to, um, teams delegating like their, their
first hundred validators and the active set or whatever.
Uh, I, I didn't talk about it from that perspective.
I, cause there, there is that like, I think we've talked about it too, like where it,
like there's some relationship here between Cosmos validators and like, like elected officials.
Right.
Cause, and even we had, remember, and we had, I forget what episode it was, but we also
had somebody came out who didn't even recognize that, that they could vote.
Right.
Remember that they didn't know that they could vote their own shares and like they thought
it was only with the validator.
Like that is a bad byproduct of, of this governance structure.
Right.
And that's something that, that, that individual should know, um, how their vote counts and
all those other types of things.
Um, so I didn't, I didn't bring it up from that perspective.
I didn't talk about that.
But I did talk, I did talk a little bit around that it, it creates that like validators market.
We all know that, right?
They're marketing for delegations and governance is a marketing tool.
Ultimately.
Like it's a marketing tool.
That's what it is.
So either you have validators who vote yes all the time or they tweet every single thing
out that they do, or they, you know, you have that fucking governance, larping on Twitter
around, um, you know, I'm doing this for you type of bullshit.
And all that is fucking garbage.
Like that's, that's, it's just a marketing tool.
And so when, when governance turns into a marketing tool, um, which it, it kind of core
is within the validator group, um, it, it becomes useless.
Right.
So, or at least it's because it becomes, um, it becomes less effective.
Right.
And I remember a little while ago, um, I woke up on the wrong side of bed and I, I won't
name, but a moderately big validator, they have staff, um, was posting his, all the stuff
we voted on this week and here's how we voted.
Um, and I just said, why?
Who gives a shit?
Why did you, why did you vote this way and this way?
Um, right.
Is that they're like param changes and they were like, well, we think this is great because
of the improved performance.
No, but why, why do you think it will do that?
What do you think?
What do you think is it?
Cause actually it's a positive and a negative to this.
So what, what, what convinced, what swayed you?
And they got very evasive and very funny.
And obviously I was being a dickhead.
I definitely got out there alongside, but I was just so fucking tight.
Like you just swing in and post like, here's the fucking eight crops we voted on this week
on Evmas and Osmo and Juno and shit.
And I'm just like, I literally don't give a fuck.
Like you haven't thought about these.
You don't give a fuck.
Um, like I'm more and more convinced that validators should actually just not be able
to vote and vote their own shares.
Literally.
Yeah.
Exactly.
You should be able to vote your own shares of validators.
That's it.
Like what you say, what you've compounded, but the, the, the problem comes because you
need to be quarrel to pass a software upgrade in cosmos.
So there has to be a backstop that means validators can force something through, but it's like,
again, I can have that in other networks.
You don't have that aptos in other places where it's just like, you know, the validators
all decide to run the software and it's either compatible or it's fucking not, but you do
not double sign.
So it's not an issue.
It's not like an existential issue for the validator to run the wrong binary.
If you run the wrong fucking binary, you look like a bit, you get a bit of egg in your face.
That's about it.
We saw, we saw Google do that this week and they were like, they're like, we're on this
version.
What could be going wrong?
It's all there is behind.
That's why it's failed.
And they're like, okay, well, I guess we need to upgrade.
I do love the, I do love the, uh, the, the new Kepler validator interface for voting,
the governance.
Have you guys used that?
Validator.cupler.app.
And, uh, I love it.
Like, I think it's great.
I think it's, it, it, our, our voting compliance has gone way up just because it's a nice UI
interface to OTHZ voting.
Cause I hate, I fucking hate voting via CLI with my ledger.
It's like, it's like the last thing I want to do and it's such painy ass and, you know,
you fucking lazy asshole.
I am, man.
It's fucking garbage.
And, and it's a, it's just not a great interface and it fails a lot and it's just painy ass.
And so you got to like schedule time to do it, but that, that, that interface is really
great set up OTHZ and like it's all in UI.
But what they did is they allow validators to put notes in there.
Right.
And so you can actually go to this website.
I don't even know where they show up.
They might, it might go to the mess.
It might go in the note, in the message.
I don't even know if they do or not.
Do you know?
No, no, no.
Okay.
Explicitly doesn't go in the memo, which I think is really fascinating.
It should go in the memo, but, but I love looking at these because what you have is
validators who literally take the two or three top lines of what the prop is and they put
it in the note.
Like we're totally for insert, insert details here.
Like they just shove it in there.
Like they're like, and steak Ceto is like the, I don't know who does it.
It's obviously not him, but whoever does theirs is hilarious because they always like take
whatever's in the prop and they put like flowers and like rainbows on it and fucking unicorns
and shit.
And they shove it in that note.
I just want to go, fuck you.
Like, like stupid fucking marketing bullshit.
Fucking garbage shit.
Steak Ceto is like, oh, it's so funny.
I'm not going to hack on him or anything, but you know, they appear to be towing the
party line.
It's, but it is like professionals that towing the party line.
But it's, it's such a like, it's like a, like if you pasted this, if you took this text
and shoved it into chat, GPT and just like, make this thing look like a rainbow, like
a unicorn, shit it out and give it in 20 words.
You just take that and you push it into this thing and put it on that website.
It is like such a, like, just like, this is fucking awesome.
And they always, they always laugh.
Oni's the same way.
Like they always, they always have like really funny descriptions that are in there that
are always like ridiculously over positive for what it is.
Like we, this upgrade's amazing.
Like just do it.
Let's do the upgrade.
I just said, just say yes.
So just say yes.
I can speak the opposite of it.
And then you'll write.
Erdeman is really funny because Erdeman is one of the members of lavender five.
And sometimes I get messages from people being like, Hey, why did you vote?
I mean, I see why you voted no, because you put it in Memo-In, but Erdeman will put in
like a big old essay on why he voted no and like really hard line.
And then someone will message me about like, what the hell?
Why'd you vote no on this?
And I'll be like, I didn't know, but I've read the reasoning.
It sounds like great reasoning.
So that's why.
Yeah, exactly.
It's in the fucking note.
Wait some more time.
Fucking asshole.
Yeah.
So I know I'm starting to slip like little asshole messages in my, just knowing that
they're not going anywhere.
They're not the notes.
I, I little, I slip little things like, fuck this prop.
Like things like that on certain things, just cause it's fun to be able to put notes
in there.
Fuck these guys.
If I'm killing Randy.
Fuck them.
So artifact, I think on steak, C toes operators also friends validator, just so I'm referring
to the chat.
Wait, what?
Really?
They're different people on they?
Oh, I don't know.
No, I don't think that's true.
I've seen, I've seen steak, Ceto folks posting in discord and they're different from the
friends validator people.
I think.
Are they?
Oh yeah.
They're definitely different people.
So I think they do run their own notes that aren't steak, Ceto though.
I can't remember what their team is called.
The state Ceto people.
Yeah.
I met them a very long time ago.
I met them in, oh, Shorts is going up.
It's loving an elevator.
I was trying to go down before when I was looking at all the mechanical shit down there.
I'm like, I can't figure that out.
Fuck it.
But yeah, I met, I met, I met the state Ceto guys in 2021 and somewhere.
I don't know.
Like we're running our own validator.
Like how, how hard is it to get delegations?
And I was like, surprisingly hard.
There's a lot of marketing involved.
You should get involved with the Ceto.
Yeah.
I don't have it.
I mean, they're, I don't have an issue with the operations.
I just, the yapping is like fucking relentless.
Jesus Christ almighty.
Like give it a goddamn rest people.
The Ceto York?
Yeah.
No, just not even, I mean, in general.
State Ceto is rather than York's, no?
Or I guess the current thing.
What's the difference in shilling and yapping on certain postcard?
I would throw out that it is who the audience is.
Yeah.
That's the favorite.
I mean, you know, upwards and you shill downwards is like down.
Shilling is like pushing down the yop upwards and you sh it's exactly what it is.
I'm just, that's good.
That's a good game of notes quote.
We put that on a t-shirt.
That's completely reframed how I see my corporate career.
Yop and just the arrows or something.
I certainly realized that I was only successful because I'm incredibly good at yapping.
Yop up and you shill down.
100% because you know, like, you know, every time you start a job in a big company, right?
The first thing you do is you work out, you find that person and you make friends with
them and you buy them a bit, right?
And they think you're a great guy.
After that, you're invincible and nobody can do fucking shit to you because if anybody
ever had the problem with you, the kind of disciplinary and like the person who was
the person who is the actual power behind the throne.
If somebody goes to them like Godfather style with a problem, they're like, but Godfather,
Frey has stolen my lunch money and he stole my lunch money and then he forced push to
main and he did all these things and it was terrible.
He's like, well, Frey bought me a beer once.
So therefore, that's not very good Marlon Brando pressure, but that is my Marlon Brando
pressure.
But that's basically what you do, right?
A big company is you you up to that person and then you're untouchable.
That's right.
So yeah, artifact is here today in the in the in the chat and isn't been in a while, but
he called me before and I'm like, yeah, I'm gone.
He's like, oh, that's on now.
I'll jump in.
Anyway, have him join.
What is he doing?
Hey, he's very fucking active in this chat.
I like it.
I know I love it.
Join us.
We tried to get artifacts on the show before, but he's it's like a 10,000 viewers face reveal
type situation.
I think it is face reveal at 15,000 people live.
So anyway, back to what I was saying.
I wanted to I wanted to shout out to artifact for having the fucking best merch in the cosmos
and what's your way.
That happens.
I'm wearing right now the artifact, the artifact merch.
Uh-huh.
You can show it off.
Yes.
For folks on the podcast, you're we're seeing look.
You're seeing an awkward man try to take a squat backwards to show us a shirt.
It looks better than he makes it look.
It's better.
IRL.
Absolutely devastating.
So I had a pretty lengthy meeting the other day with the Commonwealth guys, you know,
like the Commonwealth.
I am good.
Yeah.
Before we continue, can I just say that I just thought of this and I think it's quite
funny.
Someone's gonna say it, but I think the road to hell is paved with good yorping.
They captured.
Did he?
Does anyone want to timestamp that one?
I'm not going to, but if you want to like, I've been time, I've been time stamping snippets
for, uh, for the shorts.
And so far they're all the Frey Frey on capitalization and Yorpe up and shield down.
That's good one though.
Um, so anyway, so they're, they're like doing, you know, some market sounding talking about,
you know, the features they're working on in there.
Um, what do they call it?
The roadmap for the next like a year or so.
Um, so they've just sent a link while we were on this chat.
Can I ask a question?
How do they make, how do they make money?
Oh, well, I had that same question.
So the, um, cause I'm like, how I don't fucking understand that kind of.
Yeah.
I made some, I made some notes while I was in the car.
So this, this conversation degenerated to me asking them questions and drinking whiskey.
It was like, it was midnight or something over in there.
They're both in New York, um, Mark and, um, got them forgetting the other, uh, Reese.
So Mark and Reese are in New York and they're like their, their, um, you know, community people.
Anyway, so talking to them and then I ended up drinking a heap of whiskey while we talked to them for like
probably two hours.
Uh, and, um, anyway, they raised to date, I think about $23 million.
What?
And yeah, they, they raised through like, you know, however they do that with start ups over in the States.
Well, they call it rounds.
I think they've done like two rounds.
They did like a $3 million round and a $20 million round or something like that.
They have a team of 20 people.
Hey, how are they going to return income?
Well, I asked that same question and.
Well, I don't, I don't know if I, um, I don't know if they gave me permission to talk about it.
So, so 23 million to, to what's the output of the $23 million for this, for this website that is a,
this fucking website.
No, I mean, is that the, is that the, is that the, I don't know the extent of the, I don't know.
That's the product.
Is that the product?
Is that the only product or is there, is there other things that come together in that?
No.
I mean, I don't know if they're their own product, but I mean, of course they're following like the, um, you know, the freemium model.
It's just like Reddit with like Web three theater on top.
Yeah, but obviously, you know, all these start ups, you know, start with a free product and then move into like some paid offerings or subscription things in the background.
Like, you know, they said that they're not going to be making any paid services to users.
Yeah.
I'm not making that fucking gospel, but that's what they told me.
It's more like, you know, they'll monetize on the back.
The capital model, isn't it?
It's going to be the past 300 fucking thousand dollars or you don't get exactly that.
Well, I mean, not for it.
There'll be additional features or something that you can, you know, pay more money, pay money for in the background on the back end with the block chain.
So the foundations or whatever.
So if you so want them, I guess.
It is a very short, I will say that. That's what I said.
So anyway, there is, I just, I posted in the chat there, the link to their roadmap.
And I told them, I said, the one fucking thing you need is a mobile first interface and a fucking app.
And it's not on the roadmap.
And then I just yelled at them in the chat.
I said, where's the goddamn mobile first in the roadmap?
And they said it's coming, I promise.
I wouldn't look at Reddit Reddit.
Their first round was one million.
That was from 2005 to 2012 for seven years of development.
And then they raised 50 million two years after that when they actually in 2014, when they really started hitting the stride, they've raised a billion dollars.
But I'm trying to understand 23 million on that.
They raised a billion dollars and made no money.
I'm trying to understand 20, the 23 million is a significant number for that, for that use case.
Like that seems excessively high.
I agree, especially whenever discourse, which in my opinion is a better medium for discussion.
If they just added in a Kepler integration or web through integration, then they would basically be there.
But I guess if they're going for web three first, which come out this, it's, I mean, it's a different value add, but nothing is sitting on coming with.
I think it's far superior to having nothing or having like discord.
I think it's a huge value add for networks.
Discourse was founded in 2012 to date. They've raised 20 million.
Wow, really?
What's that discord?
Discourse.
That's what that's what cosmos uses for their forums.
That's what secret uses a couple of other networks, even 20 million for discourse sounds ridiculous, but that's that's different.
Yeah, I don't really see how discourse makes much money either.
But I mean, that's the problem with web two, isn't that's what we're here to solve with web three.
And we're doing a fucking great job because none of the products we're raising.
None of the products can monetize themselves and survive.
So the SAI Foundation just raised, well, they just announced that they raised 30 million dollars as well.
For an $800 million total at this point.
Is it 800 million total?
No, I thought they were trying to get to that level. I don't think that's where they were.
I thought that that was that concluded the $800 million. That's what my read was.
If they have $800 million, then they have absolutely no business being on tandem.
So you start writing your own at that point. Time to fork out to us.
Sorry, if you have $800 million, you get over you call up Dr. Martin Clapman and you get you try and win him over.
You back up a dump truck of money into his house.
Well, he's the guy.
He's on the original Apache Afga people LinkedIn.
So I think he already has the dump truck of money.
He can afford to be an academic just just going like distributed systems.
Very clever guy.
Fun fact, I went during the peak of Prop 16 in the early hours of one morning while having a nervous bit of a nervous breakdown.
I emailed Dr. Martin Clapman asking him for career advice in the light of Prop 16.
He wrote me back a very nice email basically saying he didn't think there was much that any of this web three stuff was much cop.
And it wouldn't be for quite a long time because there wasn't any utility there compared to normal distributed systems.
Boys will be boys.
Yolo.
No, he's not elsewhere.
Gents.
Oh, well, I would clapman suggest, but I think I believe he's American.
So I don't think boys will be boys is in the lexicon.
Oh, oh, yes, it is.
Oh, yes, it is.
We're trying hard.
But if you have $800 million, anyway, you go to the CRDT's guy and you go, let's fucking go.
30 transactions is 30 K transactions a second.
Dr. Clapman, how do we do it?
Go reach into your network of brainiacs and find me the other researchers that can make this happen.
And then you you you you you cue the sound of beeping dump trucks.
Well, so I was reading about a distributed system, I don't know, last week or so about how you can scale a database such that databases on on like that are fairly far away.
You can like get rid of the the low optimization time or high optimization time, optimism time by allowing them to eat into each other's memory to read into each other's memory directly rather than having to deal with like any sort of interference.
And there was this, there's a lot of math involved and why that works basically zero knowledge proofs, but it was super super cool.
See if I can pull up that link for that.
But I imagine like that's that would be the end game for blockchain is finding some way to effectively do direct memory accessing for other systems or other nodes effectively to have instant finalization.
So that the back to the same thing real quick, they they raise 30 at a valuation of 800.
So they they valuation, which is easy in testnet.
But that's kind of where this is going.
But I think they if I remember they they raised 30 or 50 beforehand.
So they probably they probably raised, I would think they raised somewhere between 7500 million.
But they were a cosmos chain.
It's a sign it's a lot lot for a cosmos chain.
And at eight, literally at $800 million valuation when when I mean pre launch is pretty crazy.
Right. That's a that's pretty high.
I mean, not like $23 million for Commonwealth crazy.
It's maybe the same same ratio.
But yeah, so they raise at 800 million.
So so 30 out of 800 means they basically they let's see they paid $30 million for 3.7% of equity.
Which is that is eye-watering.
And that's not just the orbits or you're talking right.
Yeah. 3.7% 3.7% Wow.
Well, so 30 out of 800 3.7% of what if you raise it.
So they raise at $800 million value.
So $800 million value post money would be that you're if you're raising through 30 million.
That means you oath you own 30 million out of 800.
And so eight at that at 100 at in percentage is 3.75%.
So basically they're on the cap table.
They are paying $30 million to own 3.75% of outstanding shares.
And so you might have, you know, you might have founder shares.
You might have stuff that's going towards obviously to air drop into this and that and everything else.
But that means that they are acquiring you want to use tokens instead of shares.
You can do that.
So that means they have 3.75% of total tokens on the chain for 30 for 30 million.
Yeah. Okay. Wow.
Yeah. Wow is right.
Okay. So that's why you guys give so much or a shit about say it's because they're going to have to deliver something
because they have a lot of people with big money and presumably quite big sticks stood over their shoulder.
Yeah. Going where's our fucking software.
Right.
They have a pretty decent size team as well.
They do.
I mean, they are funnily enough that the marketing team is way bigger than the engineering team.
Imagine my surprise.
That's normal.
So it's normally grip say I would say it's normal and Web 2 as well.
That's my experience.
I've been at.
Oh yeah.
No.
The sales team is the biggest.
The marketing team is one overworked person who manages the Twitter account.
You're right.
I was kind of rolling them together.
Yeah.
So that actually they raised 5 million in August of 2022.
I don't even know if they raised something else.
Maybe I'm wrong on that.
Maybe this was the round that I was thinking of.
But this this round is a jump crypto distributed global multi coins in here.
I don't know if that's a yes.
I don't know if that's a flow traders hypersphere and Bixen ventures.
So yeah, it's pretty cool.
The mistake you are making with the marketing team versus the sales team there.
Short C is that the sales team York sell and the marketing team shield sell.
And that's a difference between Web 2 and Web 3.
That's right.
You call up the decision maker when there's a shirt and tie and you tell them how great
it's going to make them look great.
It's going to be amazing.
They're going to get a great bonus and would they like to play around a golf at some point.
And in Web 3 you post a load of rockets and moons and DJs make you rich.
And then everybody loses in the end.
I mean, 800 million in this bear is pretty fucking incredible.
That's all.
Yeah.
Like I mean, yeah, as well.
I mean, you could say, I mean, I mean, if you take the multiplication of how far this
market is down, at least in this ecosystem, say it's down what 40x 99.5%.
I mean, Juno's down 40x.
Osmosis is down what maybe 20.
I've never heard of it expressed like that before.
Whoever you want to say 40x.
Well, I'm meaning 40 times the current valuation.
So, I mean, you're talking at 800 million now.
That's crazy.
And I guess, I mean, if you're just to do with the end of tax year though, because presumably
a lot of these funds they have because when did the raise happen?
Because like if those funds, I don't know, if you want, but if they have funds, they
allocate for a given year and they need, they need or want to use them in that year.
Could that be it?
They're just like, there aren't that many other credible projects.
I mean, it's only, I mean, only raised 30 million.
It's not like it's incredible number, but the valuation is what's amazing, right?
Like what they, but maybe that's, maybe that's a normal, maybe that's a normal valuation
or a ratio evaluation for something in web three, because you're, you have a lot of
community stakeholders and you have drops and you have all this other type of shit that
you have valuation going out the door, right?
Do you remember Star Fox on the N64?
No, is it N64 or is it the Super Nintendo?
I think it was the Super Nintendo.
N64.
Well, it's the middle between you talking about the two of you.
Star Fox?
Yeah.
So do you remember how you would fight a boss and then halfway through it enter a new phase
and it would turn out the boss was like much bigger and tougher.
And what was his name?
Fox McLeod.
We just have, there'd be like a quip and you'd be like, oh fuck.
And you know, at this age, you're like 10 years old or whatever.
So you're like, oh my God, it's the mid 90s.
You know, things are different then.
And you're like, oh my God, this boss is so big and scary.
I feel like that is, that is everything the longer you spend in crypto, the more like this
valuation is that is where you learn a thing and you're like, huh, and then it's just like
this huge looming boss.
And you're like, oh, what I thought was true about thing is actually even more insane that
I had previously.
I feel that's like a weekly occurrence working in this space and I really haven't got used
to it, but it's very at least the Super Nintendo prepared me for the feeling.
Yeah.
Not only that, but I mean, even the, I mean, even these, the ventures that are putting money
in, well, I don't know if that's street money or if that's, if there are other things that
have been sold off in the past or whatever else, but even in this, even in this bear.
What is street money?
What does that mean?
Meaning like if, if, if a VC or if a, a firm like this might go out and do a round and
they're looking for individual investors to say, Hey, we're going to put a $200 million
round together.
They raise $200 million externally and then they're promising back a set of returns on
that.
And then that round they would take and do investments across a bunch of web three type
of structures, right?
Or it could be a mix of whatever they want to do, right?
Whatever that, whatever the focus is.
Like investments and to get.
Yeah.
I mean, that's what that's what VCs do, right?
They, they raise money from, from wealthy individuals and they put those into a fund.
They, they put a prospectus on that fund.
They put a timeline in that fund.
They invest in certain things and they hope that some of that stuff, you know, they hope
they don't wake up one day in concrete boots.
Yeah.
Well, this is just reminding me to, to always be careful about where you put your pension
if you manage it yourself.
Never in web three.
No shit.
But the idea, but, but here like they would, you, I mean, these guys, I mean, something
like multi coin, they're looking for, what are they looking for?
They're looking for one out of 20 investments to a hundred X, right?
Like multi, you know, multi kinds looking for a helium where they, you know, they put
in $2 million and they get 250 back, right?
And then the rest of that stuff, who gives a shit, whatever happens and they take, then
that goes out to the investors and they get a shitload themselves and they put that into
a, they roll some of that off into another fund and yeah, you know, you keep going, you
keep going.
So that, that's funny.
You know, the quote debate, the Matthew McCartney, he seemed for the beginning of the Wolf of
Wall Street there without even,
What do you let them do?
Do you let them take their money and scooch off?
No.
That's a great idea.
And of the stock.
That's right.
Yeah.
And they roll from fund A to fund B and you, you know, you keep putting down there, but
there's so much like, I mean, I don't know, whatever.
It's interesting that, but it's interesting that they, it's only 30, like I said, it's
only 30 million.
There's six, there's six groups in here or something like that.
So, but it is interesting that.
So it's probably like five, it will be different amounts for each one, but even at five million
group, those guys are fucking minted.
They can afford to throw five million at a punt.
Right.
But even at that valuation, at the valuation, like you're, I mean, you're paying a lot for
a small percentage, right?
So you're hoping that means 800 million.
That means like if you're, if you're one of these VCs, you want at least 10x, that means,
that means they're hoping that say, turns into an eight billion dollar valuation.
That seems doubtful, but.
Is my math right?
800 million times 10.
What do we know?
Like we keep it.
Is it that doubtful though?
No.
I mean, 80 million.
Wait, no.
Wait, 800 million times 10, right?
Is that what it is?
Is that 8?
Is that 8 million?
Yeah.
It is, right?
80 million times 10 is 800 million.
Yeah.
In actual billions.
So, but, but again, like to Noel's always point, just because it's, just because that's
what the value is doesn't mean that you can actually get that liquidity, right?
So.
Yeah.
Oh, fuck no.
Yeah.
So another thing also I want to bring it back to is like, you know, from your TED talk,
an interesting thing you touched on was like the need to give background because a lot
of people don't even know what the cosmos is.
A few weeks ago, whenever it was, I went to that academic or scientific blockchain conference
where the fuck it was and just sort of stood at the back like a fucking nerd, you know,
being like, what's this about then?
Completely completely out of my element as an actual degenerate being let into the ivory
tower somehow.
That was my overriding takeaway from that whole experience was that people didn't even
know that they could go and look up a use case and call it like.
So obviously there were a bunch of people that just like had no fucking clue basically,
but then the people who had done interesting work or interesting papers hadn't even thought
to look in cosmos for data or data points, not because the data points weren't there
or they didn't have the means to build custom stuff to find the data or a lot of the technical
people.
It was just because they literally did not know cosmos existed.
They maybe knew atom if you're lucky.
They had no fucking clue what IBC was.
Right.
Absolutely none.
I've heard of it and the people that I talked to you who literally worked in the space as
consultants and they just every time they'd released a finished consulting on launching
a project in web three, they tried to get an academic paper out of it because as a consultancy
it bolstered their credentials.
Even those guys, they were just like, yeah, I'm vaguely aware there might be some other
chains that are a bit like cosmos now.
It's kind of like polka dot, right?
Parachains.
Yeah.
It's kind of same thing.
Yeah, I mean, it's a protocol that's permissionless.
So anybody can launch a chain and then they just talk to the other chains and they're
like, oh, that's pretty novel.
Right.
You're like, yes, been alive for a little while now.
Yeah.
No bridges.
It's amazing.
Check it out.
But that's interesting because it's exactly the same as what you were talking about.
Just like that my overriding take away from that entire thing was literally nobody fucking
knows who cosmos is.
Well, even what we were talking about before, like the idea of having dow-dow with mesh security
across chains to be able to, like, even my head spins on that shit.
Like, how's that getting everybody's psyche around how that's going to possibly work around,
you know, polygonics?
It means you can get rugged from two.
You don't see before, right?
We were at this singular app chain where you could only get rugged by the price action
on one chain.
So now we're going to have like multi-party rugging where you're going to get rugged from
several different directions at once, possibly via multi-sig, which is obviously a big improvement
on the rugging scenario we had before.
That's what decentralized.
It sounds like a rug down is needed.
Rugged out.
Do you just make a rug down that rug?
That's right.
And it was like, I can't believe they rug.
We talked about that for, we talked about that for Game of Notes chain, right?
Like, we are going to rug you.
The question is, can you make money before that rugging happens?
And so...
I mean, can you time the rug?
No, you know it's coming.
Like, we're being very clear that we're going to rug everybody.
But in the meantime, we're going to have a massive APR so people can...
Wait, that's literally a podsy.
That's literally a podsy.
What's your explanation, sir?
Of course.
Of course it is.
It's a mixture of technologies.
It's a rug, the podsy.
It's a podsy and a last man in the scam.
Is it a podsy if you tell people it's a podsy?
My favorite rug was definitely the Squid Games one where after like a week, people putting
money in, the founders rugged everyone because it's Squid Game and everyone was like, yeah,
okay, that's fair.
They're like, that's what happens.
Yeah.
Oh, you were serious.
Yes, you all did get rugged.
But do you remember when we...
This is going back to pre-Pocass even existing.
Without the rug component, said that we should launch a meme chain called Dozenwasm.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I still want to be on Dozenwasm.
Dozenwasm, Dozenwasm.
I don't know how you pronounce that.
Maybe Dozenwasm.
And this is this pre-Kerberus.
This would have been...
It's pre-Kerberus.
Given when it would have been launched.
It would have been launched in January 2022.
So every time we even remotely look like we know what we're talking about, every time
we think, hey, I think I might be on top of things today.
Remember that on the group chat, we talked about a joke meme chain using Cosmosm called
Dozenwasm in January 2022 and launching it as a set of validators.
If we had done that, that would have been the most profitable thing any of us would
have ever done in our entire lifetime.
Oh, easily.
And we would have front run the massive boom in January to February by a few weeks.
We would have been there for the app chain explosion with a meme chain.
When did Chihuahua launch?
A little bit before that.
But it didn't...
Oh, that's right.
Yeah, it didn't.
Dang.
So, yeah.
So this is the thing.
I sometimes think about that whenever I think I might know something about anything.
I'm just like, yeah, the joke idea that we had and we didn't do because obviously it
was a joke would have been the most successful business venture any of us would ever do in
our lifetimes if we had gone through with the joke.
Welcome to Web3.
That's where we are.
Devastating, isn't it?
But what are you going to do?
I wonder if the market cap of Chihuahua is now more than Juno.
I checked and it is not.
I checked that last week.
Well, it might be now.
I haven't checked them last week because I was curious about that as well.
It hasn't gone down that much this week, has it?
Well, either Juno or Chihuahua.
Well, I mean, Juno is only down 98% from its peak, so it's still got a bit to go.
No, only 98% that's pretty good.
Now worth less than the likes of Comdex and Asset Man to like.
Asset Man to like.
Yeah, is it?
So Chihuahua was almost a penny a piece, wasn't it?
It was pretty close, wasn't it?
Like point?
Yeah, no, it hit a penny.
Probably worth less than Sentinel.
Have they done anything recently?
Is Sentinel still going?
Sentinel has, I don't think so.
The Sentinel team basically became say.
What?
No, no, I think.
Wait, what?
No, I thought it was just Dan that was part of that.
Is that so?
I know that, yeah, I'm not going to, if that's what you think, I'm going to run with that.
That's better than anything I have.
Well, I'm not sure.
Is it still running?
Sentinel?
Yeah.
And I thought, I thought, I thought actually D.D.O. was just a, was like a contractor on Sentinel.
I don't think he was actually founder.
I thought there was a different, that team is still around or something.
I think it is still running though, isn't it?
It's not in the archived section of MintScan, which is a newly minted section for the likes
of.
The new sad panda section of the selector section.
Amazing.
Yeah, for that.
So the token price is.00053.
Yeah, that's three zeros, five three for DVPN.
So they've gotten the treatment with the extra zeros on their dashboard.
And but the market cap is still like 6.8 million dollars.
So where do they, where do they show the market cap?
Where are you looking at?
It's just on the, on the default page, mintscan.io.
Oh, MintScan is not showing it for Chihuahua.
I was actually curious that you mentioned it.
Yeah, but there's like a hundred, a hundred billion tokens.
There's a hundred.
Isn't that right?
A thousand million.
Yeah, I think there's a hundred billion.
So just times all the zeros by a hundred billion.
Yeah.
Even, even, Clingo doesn't show a market cap.
I mean, they're burning a lot, right?
Is that why?
Because they're talking about the.
They probably don't have like a mechanism to show the actual supply.
Yeah, they must not.
Which is a fuckload.
Right.
There's too many zeros in the fucking.
They might just look it up from Janus's, maybe.
No, it keeps going up because it's, you know, minting new tokens every.
Oh, you mean current circulating supply.
Yeah.
So yeah, I guess maybe they don't want to show it because, you know, you don't want
people to know what it's the market cap might be potentially.
I don't know.
It's hollering at that 99.08 percent