I've never been clear.
I don't think I'm the only one that's not clear what differences.
How are we coming back to the same topic?
Didn't we?
Didn't we talk about this before?
I thought I thought Noel has a he's got a crocodile alligator thing figured out.
Well, the Steve Irwin's are in Australia and he's Australian.
So I think that means he has to know.
He's also muted.
So that's what I asked.
Start the show.
You need to go on.
Welcome to Game of Notes, a weekly podcast
on the cosmos from independent validator teams.
Hello, welcome to Game of Notes, a weekly podcast on the cosmos
from independent validator teams.
And now are you are you with us yet?
Yeah.
Did you do a little weird?
I don't know if it's a little delay.
Everybody or just me.
But that's just really delay.
He's farther away now.
So audio then video was what I experienced there.
Oh, yeah.
Shit, this is like a thing that I've been working on.
Wow.
And then you showed up with that.
Excellent.
That's that's how we're going to roll.
We're going anyway.
Travel around the whole world and came back to your same problems.
You know, not everything works perfectly when you having to
stream out your parents' basements.
So, you know, you've got to kind of, you know, I was expecting all my
problems just to fix themselves while I was going.
But fuck hell.
You were like, well, fix everything.
Yeah.
I mean, it's just, you know, here we are.
I've got the same problems, you know, slowly, slowly getting more problems.
Welcome to the bad market, baby.
I'm just saying, every single week, I'm just like, I wonder if this week,
wonder if this week will be better.
And you are, you are not allowed to complain about the bear market.
None of you are.
You don't know your pain.
Well, yes and no.
Yes.
Well, let's go a yes and no.
I would say that I assume I assume we're referring to different ecosystems.
And I would remind you about our AWS bill before you continue.
Don't make me get out the calculator and tell you how insignificant your AWS
bill is.
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.
Yes, just have a little turn about.
Still turn about.
It's, you know, it's, it's a problem.
Don't make me do a full economic assessment here.
You know, I was on a call earlier where we were talking about effectively turns
like it was like Grant stuff.
And I'm always impressed by anybody who pulls the fucking massive flex of being
able to do mental maths to the point of like, you should, you're sort of saying
something out loud like, oh, you know, well, you know, maybe a potential solution
would be something wrong lines of this.
And somebody goes like, okay, yeah, back of the packet.
That means this, this, this.
And you're like, well, doesn't somebody have a fucking GCSE in maths?
You go with back of the envelope here, but you can, you can make an estimation
just based on, you know, the information of it.
Yeah, you can just like some fucking DeFi degen shit where it's just like, you
know, because the solution isn't like encrypted solution is never as simple as,
hey, how about we pay you a fair day's wage for a fair day's work?
No, like fucking is, it's like, we're going to escrow some tokens with your
fucking liquid balls thing.
And everybody, everybody's going to make what a bear market and make fractions
of a penny on each feed the thing.
And then something, something, there's a doge over here and there's money over
there. And somebody just casually is like, oh, yeah, that gauge.
Yeah, I think that's going to be about about $1,000 a month.
And you're like, what the fuck?
When did I remember come from?
What? How?
Show me you're working.
I want to see that.
But I'm also impressed and intimidated by what you've just done.
So that might also be the tiredness talking, but I think generally I'm just
intimidated by competency, which just general, general competence.
Just like, hang on a minute.
I've put a screen to a knife fight.
What's all this?
This sounds like they know what they're doing.
This is horrifying.
It's like I came in here ready to, ready to roll some bums, some hobos.
Yeah, of course.
Fuck, it turns out these guys are a preferred business outfit.
What the fuck?
I didn't get involved in crypto to deal with professionals.
I've been, I've been outmatched.
So I love actually, you know, here's something I want to mention.
I love how we've started printing bear market blocks in our, in our spreadsheet.
What do you mean?
Empty.
Oh yeah.
I know.
We're printing a lot of empty blocks in the spreadsheet.
Not quite empty blocks.
We've got a couple of things in the spreadsheet, although, you know, I know
it's the thing that remains week after week and it's getting like bigger and
more redder is the life is a meaningless march of emptiness and despair.
Like, I'll look at things with agendas.
Every few weeks, we just drew a font size on that one.
Just feel like it has been getting bigger to pat the team up, you know,
well, hey, you know, yeah, there's been a lot of, been a lot of inflation
in the size of the baby.
We're nearly, I fear, I fear that before too long in the game of nodes,
baby grow, there's going to be some kind of guy.
If I was, if I was smart enough and I was less tired, there's, there's some
kind of UST collapse, demand side crash joke to be made about, about the
game of nodes, baby grow, which is to be honest, the most exciting thing
in my life right now.
Wait, what do you mean it's going to be a, you mean like there's going to be a
rip or there's going to be some sort of defecation that could be anything?
I mean, it could be anything.
Yeah, it is what I've learned.
I didn't think it was possible to poo through two layers of clothing, but
hey, that might be UST.
That could be, is that exogenous?
No, it's probably a.
It's a, it's a viscosity problem.
You know, I think the problem is it's an endogenous problem becoming
an exogenous problem, but an economist might be able to correct me on that one.
So, I mean, that, that onesie is a one of one NFT that however could also be
recreated many different times, like every other NFT.
When it's too small, I should mint NFT and then burn the, burn the onesie
along with the, along with what's been done to it.
It was a white one, white onesie, which is possibly now it's tan.
The, slightly off page.
Just a little turn around from white.
So, but yeah.
So, but, but, but, but there has been one exciting thing in the Cosmos that I
feel like straight on the top of the show, I want to be like straight, seven
minutes in noise launch, we talked about that last week.
We didn't, we meant to.
I felt noise launch.
That's kind of cool.
Like we always, we're always bitching about like shit chains launching without a
kind of actual use case.
Noise is, you know, we're obviously had had Simon on the show previously.
So, to answer our dumb questions, like it's a useful chain with the actual use
case, the DRAN stuff is pretty cool.
I mean, like all these things, it's going to be rocky for a little while.
And it's certainly not going to work particularly profitably as far as I can
tell from, from being in a bad market, but.
It doesn't need to be it, but I'm like, my expectations, it's not like it's
going to the moon, right?
Like it's, it's performing a service that.
The noise is not going to the main.
Sorry.
Stop fudding my bag.
Sorry.
What do you mean?
It's not going to the moon.
What?
My bags.
But it, it's a, it's a.
Man, I thought I was going to clip my golden ticket.
Shit.
I'm sorry.
I'm going to ask you all the knees, but it is, it's providing value.
It's, it's obviously well engineered.
It's going to do its job.
Hopefully it can earn some revenue, right?
Like what else do you want?
So solving a purpose, it can grow, right?
There's other things it can do.
We're also running the, the, the DRAN robot, which is kicking ass.
It's kind of fun.
Are you, are you winning the, the DRAN battles?
Yeah.
Every one, which I think is a problem.
Wait, how are you winning every one?
That's anyone that I'm in is green.
I just went to go look at it because it's been running for a while.
I'm running on a really overpowered box that is left over from another chain
to be named, to be left nameless.
Um, and it's well connected.
It's peered.
Well, it is, uh, yeah, it's doing pretty good.
So I actually just checked in that because I was seeing how it was doing,
but it's anything that gets pulled in, it's in there.
Who, I think that's a problem actually, because it shouldn't be.
Is it on a hits in the books?
No, it's sitting in equinex.
It's sitting on a box.
It's an equinex data center with like the best peering in the universe
on an Epic 7543p.
That's the only thing that it's doing is running that in a node.
Until, until my, until, until the subscription runs out at the end of
April and then it'll go into a, uh, something far less exciting.
Because I mean, DRAN, DRAN Oracle, that's not breaking the heads in a TOS.
Sure.
Yeah.
I don't, I mean, it's, I, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
it also run a note on it because I want it to be, I want it to be close to, uh,
actually I send it, I send my, those DRAN to myself.
I sent the polka cause he's really close, um, in, in, uh, in ping and
somebody else I sent it to.
So it sends out three and whatever wins, wins.
And yeah, it does pretty well.
So is this, is this an aptos life thing?
Just having miscellaneous Epic boxes sitting around.
It's, it's, it's set for decommission.
I just missed the, uh, subscription date.
So yeah, it's set around.
I have, I have three absolute units just sat in two OVH data centers for a rainy day.
It's, it's the life.
It's a life.
This is, uh, yeah, it's just, we're just dripping with Epic 48 core boxes later on here.
What's the line from road to petition?
Uh, this is the life we've chosen, the life we lead.
There's only one guarantee.
None of us will see heaven.
What's the, uh, it's a great movie.
I don't remember the phrase though.
What's the, how does that really do what we just talked about?
It's, it's when he's trying to, so a little bit of a spoiler here.
Sorry if you haven't seen road to petition, but it's when he's talking to,
is it Paul Newman?
It's when Tom Hanks is talking, I think it's Paul Newman and he's, he's, he's,
he's, he's trying to explain the central predicament and drama driver of the film
involves his son and he's trying to explain why his son being wrapped up in the situation
doesn't basically should exempt the normal thing that would happen in a mob
organization when the thing that are the, the important drama thing that has happened
has happened and he's trying to sort of advocate for his son.
And he says, oh, you know, this is the life we've lived in this life, which we've chosen.
Only one guarantee.
None of us will see heaven.
That's Paul Newman's character and Tom Hanks, you know, it is folksy Tom Hanks.
Where it's like, my son, my, my Michael, Michael, my dude, your Tom Hanks is awesome.
Yeah, it's good.
I feel like I need to watch that road to permission again.
I was going to watch a man called Otto tonight.
Oh, it's great.
And that's what I've heard.
Yeah.
So I want to I want to Christen my new couch that I got yesterday.
Christen.
Christen it.
Yes.
Christen.
It's going to be the maiden voyage of the cow.
You go to Newcatch.
I did get Newcatch.
Yeah. Oh, he was like, we've got to get.
Yeah, exactly.
Like no slip on this thing and burning it.
Is it leather?
No, no, it's not leather.
It's a leather.
Cassie's vegan.
So we can't do leather.
Well, I wear like leather belt.
Counting a fucking sit on leather.
I thought that just meant you can't eat it.
Well, I mean, it kind of depends on the person, right?
But a lot of people like they don't want to support the killing of animals.
Basically, yeah, hurricane is just in we're slaughtering them anyway.
Well, I mean, meanwhile, like you have to buy it up in the mother.
Yeah, man, I love that chair.
I spent some time in that bitch.
That is your gravity chair.
Oh, yeah, that one's leather.
That one is leather, but that one's mine.
I can have that.
Oh, sorry.
You mentioned something else.
No, I thought I thought you were talking about the chair.
No, no, no, that the glorious
zero gravity chair remains as it is.
But no, the sofa and living room, because like on the right hand side,
it was too sunken in.
I thought, like, I can't put up with that anymore.
My sad back can't take it.
Some of the some of the best times I had in the States was just skulking
around Schultz's house, playing with these like shit.
I kind of in my in my head, I can't because of the posters in Schultz's room,
I kind of I kind of can't decide whether like you leave the room
and it's going to be like a triumph of minimalism.
It's going to be like all fucking Scandi and shit and really fucking West Coast
and like nice, or whether it's going to be like just like cool shit everywhere,
just like random Lego models and stuff and just like, oh,
maybe neither of the above, but I feel like it would either be one or the other.
And I don't know why I have that kind of either totally nothing in the house
or just like hoarders, paradise, but mainly cool shit.
I appreciate that that that medium you're giving me.
Unfortunately, the house is like partially being like renovated.
Ish because like we're painting the walls and stuff.
So like all the walls are stripped throughout the house, basically.
This is the asbestos chat from previous previous episode of cameo notes.
Everybody, if you have a regular listener, it's right.
I don't know which episode it was, but there was an episode where asbestos came up.
Yeah. Yeah. Sorry about that.
Well, but there are there are some cool things still up.
So like my grandfather, whenever he died a couple years back,
he gave me some of his wood carvings.
So I've got like wood carvings of like a stag and wolves.
Wolves, all of its place.
So I got some cool things.
You tell me you've got some one of one wood NFTs.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Yes.
Did your dad, he was a headache.
Sorry, did your did your granddad make the light switch thing?
No, but he did make the table.
The light switch thing, I think was from Etsy, but the table next to the couch.
He did make that.
OK, cool. The table.
But everything. Yeah. Oh, the couch.
OK. Yeah. OK. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool.
And me and my granddad made a like a little
like cupboard on wheels with a drawer on top.
It's like a little mini bedside on wheels.
Yeah, it's a piece of shit.
I mean, it's more like a drink cabinet.
We made it like an hour in the wood shed, and it is not impressive.
But, you know, it's a memoir.
Yeah, right. I have shit like that, too.
I can't beat it.
My life in Woodcraft by Null.
I'm a man. Yeah, you know, it's like I don't know how you make a bedside table.
It's half bog, but we did.
Were you like six years old or 36 years old?
Makes a difference.
You're 36 years old.
We've got a few stays. Yeah.
It's like, oh, I'm glad.
That was a second drinks cabinet.
I'm really.
I'm going with I'm going with low teens.
Like they're all they're all long.
All right, all right.
So, you know, hey, what's this?
Oh, so on the movie chat, like I very much recommend if you've been a bit of a lull
and you've expanded all of your exploitation era Australian films,
just go on YouTube and go best cinematography or Oscar best cinematography
supercar and there's just like loads of really good ideas for films in there.
And I think it's why road petition is in my head,
because I think road to petition,
which I thought was a kind of sort of semi forgotten, but OK, gangster film.
I think it actually won best cinematography
when it was released.
And I remember it being quite a striking film, if it is the one I'm thinking of.
And so that's I think why it's in my head.
It won something.
I think it was best cinematography.
I think that's also why because it came up in that big round.
But then to be fair, some art a shot did also win Oscars over the years
that there wasn't all that good.
So but then, you know, so what I realized, I watched a super cut of,
you know, just like a couple of scenes from each of the best picture films
and then one of the best cinematography.
And I felt like the films that I like more
were the best cinematography ones rather than the best pictures.
I mean, for starters, because fucking Lord of the Rings won best picture
and Master and Commander won best cinematography in the same year.
And obviously, the better film.
Vastly superior.
Right. So right there, we could say that just, you know,
obviously, the cinematography is masking the true.
It's the true, you know, it's the like the the Pooh Bear and the Tuxedo.
The man of culture doesn't watch the best picture run.
Master and Commander won something.
Yeah, won like four Academy Awards, I think.
Holy shit. Maybe more.
Sound design, active screenplay, cinematography.
Must have been some like.
And I think editing.
Maybe maybe costume as well, actually, because there was a there was a whole
thing about how how much effort they went into for both the costume
and to do the sound design for like the cannons and stuff.
They literally cracked out 200 year old cannons from museums in England and America.
That's cool to be like, well, what does it sound like when we record a cannon
with 15 microphones? Yeah, it's like the entire world is exploding.
I could see for audio. That was a good audio for the custom design.
Well, how hard is that?
They're all in the same fucking thing.
So you get some rags, put them on.
I'm surprised. It's like how complex doing good costume is.
And my partner watches this thing where they literally it's like, you know,
everybody has like a zone out YouTube space, like a happy space.
So it says that it won the award for longest feeling picture.
Best value for money is what I call that.
But you know, everybody has like a zone out YouTube thing where they just
throw it on the background. Like I quite like.
You know, coffee ziller or like economics explained or like the Bovington Tank Museum,
you know, just your standard just throw it on.
My economics explained is like top tier, like stationary bike YouTube. Yeah.
Yeah, it's kind of like it's quite good for that.
Just kind of like I kind of want something sort of vaguely like I'll come away with it
with some kind of interesting information.
But like, hey, before, so my partner watches the thing, which is her equipment.
That is quite often costume in film.
And it turns out it's an area that like if it's done badly, you super notice.
If it's done well, you don't know, of course, but then like, especially in anything
that's like a little bit past in the past, like beyond where we kind of just
instinctively can tell it looks wrong.
People obviously take a lot of liberties.
And that's the interesting thing where people can kind of get away with being
shit, but they actually make an effort to try and get it right.
And that becomes super complicated because there gets to be a point where it's just
like, well, outside of these few things in the museum, we don't actually know how
people made that.
So if you want to do it right for a film, you basically have to get a bunch of
really good tailors and be like, go to a museum, reverse engineer this garment,
and then make me 15 more of them.
And it's like really complex.
And then, you know, in kind of like, you know, whatever it is, like textiles,
literature, then people will literally go and be like, well, we thought that
everybody had pockets in the 17th century.
And it turns out we reverse engineered a bunch and we've completely changed our
opinion on how pockets worked.
It's actually quite interesting, especially pockets, because pockets are really,
that's one of those ones where there's a lot more, there's a lot of stuff to pockets.
I mean, that shit's fascinating.
I got sucked into an armorer, critiquing movies at one point.
And he had some serious opinions about like, I think it was in the Alexander movie.
Yeah, it's under the great movie where like someone was wearing a pauldron and he got
all fired up about it.
He's like, listen, Alexander the Great supposed to like 1200.
Pauldrons didn't really start showing up because of the certain weaponry around 1500.
And then went on like a 17 minute spiel about pauldrons based on that.
And that's where I get sucked in.
That's where I'm all committed.
I watched The Great on the other day, which is all about the amount of historical evidence
there is for the various ways in which phalanxes were deployed.
Phalanxes were deployed in the high-class school Greek period.
And how little we essentially know.
And how much we've also painted, how we think they fought into the period before and the
period after based on almost no evidence, which makes sense.
I mean, if you do any kind of classics, you just like, there's almost no primary sources
left on anything.
And you're like, yeah, we're just going to like draw loads of conclusions about how
people would have fought.
And you're like, based on what?
Yeah, it's all based on The Wall of Hell or whatever it's called, the movie that they
put based on 300.
Yeah.
And there's also like this whole, a lot of them is also based on like vases.
And then like, as anybody kind of goes, well, hang on a minute, this vase or this ceramic
or this painting is two-dimensional.
So if you're trying to represent like people are like, oh yeah, no, there's loads of periods
where shield walls were used.
And it's like, yeah, of course the shield walls were used, but it's not phalanx because
they've had to represent all the soldiers two-dimensionally.
So they're all just in a line.
But they're all just holding javelins and they were probably just throwing them.
It probably wasn't a phalanx.
It was a different period of history.
They probably just throwing those guys and then they're just jerking off a guy over their
shoulder.
But the whole thing in 300 with the pushing, that is actually based on the, I think it's
like the historical whatever it is, like the orthodox view of how the fighting happened,
which is that they didn't want many of the soldiers to be able to fight.
So it was mainly a shoving match until one side sort of gave up in a particular period
of Greek history.
And that's where that came from.
It has like a whole name.
It's like the shoving has like a Greek name that was used at the time.
But then again, there's like a dissenting view.
It's just like, yeah, the front rows were shoving each other, trying to kill each other.
That was not the main, they were tried fucking.
You made a lot of additional conclusions about how this worked just based on one word that
basically amounts to shoving.
I mean, pockets are not that master and commander movie really sucked.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think there's that much pockets involved in that.
I think that was all about the pockets.
So I mean, pockets is an interesting subject in the book.
I think that was all about the pockets.
I mean, pockets is an interesting subject in clothing from having overheard a lot of
stuff in the background around the house about clothing.
I was just like, yeah, pockets.
Who knew?
Sometimes men had great pockets.
Sometimes women had great pockets.
Sometimes nobody had good pockets.
Usually somebody had good pockets.
There was a whole period of time where women just had like huge pockets in their clothes.
You put a whole loaf of bread in.
Not today.
Yeah.
And now pocket poverty.
Yeah, we're swallowing the app.
It's away and there's no pockets.
It doesn't make any sense.
And you know, it's crazy pocket to put a whole loaf of bread in.
Like that's basically a basic.
As soon as I heard about that, I was like, that's great.
That's amazing.
I mean, if you think about hoodies, I guess, kind of a bread pocket, isn't it?
Yeah.
I don't know, but it's a bread pocket.
Women's pants.
It's more of a sausage.
Women's pants when they put like a phone in their back pocket,
like three quarters of sticking out the top.
That kills me.
I don't know how.
That's so much trust in that pocket.
Every single one is very stressful, isn't it?
Yeah.
I'm like, oh my God, what are they going to do?
They're going to sit on and crack it.
How am I going to handle this?
It's not even my phone.
It's going to fall.
It's going to make me think about it.
I don't.
Anyway, I started learning from YouTube polls.
I also learned one of the main reasons why the Russian advance was halted in Ukraine.
You know, the northern attack down towards Kiev, where the Ukrainians were very unprepared
for an attack from that direction.
Apparently, one of the big things that happened between the Crimean offensive and now,
with Western military observers and like trainers, is they emphasized NATO tactics rather than
Warsaw Pact tactics, where Warsaw Pact tends to be top down.
And the big thing that changed between the World War II,
and maybe also like Vietnam and stuff, and sort of now is that special forces tactics have sort
of bled down into all NATO armies to a lesser or greater extent, where special forces tactics
from the Second World War, like the US Marine Recon, the SAS, those kind of experimental groups
at the time where it was like, yeah, we want an outcome.
Go scout this island for Japanese, tell us how many rough, yeah, rough force strength, right?
They're not like, take this boat, go to this island, do it in this way.
They'll just be like, go and find out, right?
So it's outcome based.
And like the SAS, they'd be like, go and blow up some planes while they're still on a runway,
outcome based, right?
Yeah.
It's not like, take four jeeps, 10 men in two sections, and you know, it's just like,
go blow up some fucking planes, blow up as many as you can, do it however you see fit, go for it.
But that kind of gradually became like more of the kind of strategic doctrine for,
for, for, yeah, outcomes.
Like at unit level, you have more flexibility as a small unit commander to basically drive
the outcome that's been given to you.
And apparently that's the thing that, that is supposedly the thing the Ukrainian army took
on most and has accounted for some of their ability to repel the Russians in the early
stages of the invasion because they were able to go like, well, we need to blow up some T-72s.
What's the most flexible way we can drive that outcome?
It's kind of like an agile software approach to blowing up T-72s rather than a real top-down
waterfall.
Yeah.
That wasn't even a way I was going to get.
I didn't really, I didn't realize that was going to be the punchline to that.
But anyway, Cosmos.
Well, hold on.
I got one point to add to this.
It's interesting you bring that up because there's been such a discussion lately around
autonomy in children.
And it's kind of interesting that the military who traditionally kind of treats their,
I don't want to say their peons, their individuals as children.
True.
Thank you, their troops.
Yeah.
That's better than peons.
Yeah.
As children, the conversation is turning around into like, well, if we provide people more autonomy,
then they'll succeed more.
And so that's a big discussion.
My family's, there's a lot of teachers.
And so that's been in vogue in the last year on how can we provide more options for autonomy
and how can we, how does that lead to success and whatever.
But anyway, just want to throw that out there that it's kind of like goes one to one.
It's almost like when you empower people to, like you give them the tools to do a task and
you give them an outcome that you are mutually aligned on, they tend to have a better chance
of success.
Yeah.
Because then they can, you know, use critical thinking skills and like, there's might be
some sort of emergent creative thinking happening.
Yeah.
Wild.
Crazy.
Yeah.
It is obvious it hides, it's not as classic.
It was obvious it hides site.
But hey, we're all going to be obsolete thanks to GPT-4 anyway.
So.
But not, but honestly, not everybody does well in that situation.
Like I agree with you.
Like there, there, you have to have a, and this is a, this is an entrepreneurial type of
group.
And I think our listeners are very entrepreneurial as well, because you're like in this ecosystem.
And, but that's not everybody.
That's not everybody.
Some people really only feel comfortable when they have clear direction on what needs to
be done next.
And that's okay.
Like there's nothing wrong with that.
Like they want direction and not that, that, that liberty creates stress and it creates
like consternation and then you like, they don't do anything or, or you're in a position
where I need to be told exactly what to do and they'll do it very well.
But, but that's not everybody.
That's kind of, it's a weird, it's a weird human dynamic, right?
But then that's also like, that's how you, that's, that's the
difference between sort of, well, this is a difference in military organization between
you know, sort of enlisted rank and file soldiers and non-commissioned officers and
commissioned officers.
And that's why you have, that's why you have the breakdown of responsibilities and the
way that you do.
And that's why outcome, that's why outcome based strategy begins to work pretty well,
because you've got a really rigid hierarchy for escalating a decision.
But you have a clear, at any given point, you should have a clear person whose job it is to
make a decision to drive the outcome.
So they, they just handed down an outcome and then eventually there's people who have
to action that outcome and they're given, okay, there is the T-72, please.
Yeah, yeah, figure out a way.
Yeah, exactly.
I think the actions from our little conference here are take this javelin missile,
fire it at that T-72 from whatever position in this general wooded area seems to be the most
naturally defensible to you.
Fire and shoot, take out, you know, maybe more than one T-72, use your initiative really.
I'm going to leave that, I'm going to leave that with you as a, you know, an action, but
it will look good on your OKRs if it's more than one T-72.
So anyway, that's the rubber chicken's gone.
That's two minutes.
That's the end of this morning stand up.
So everybody one, two, three, yeah, ten killers.
Right.
Let's go.
I believe the traditional one is who are.
Who are?
Marine.
That's not specifically the US Marine Corps or is it the Army Rangers?
No, that's probably Marines.
Yeah.
That's right.
Okay.
Yeah.
So 30 minutes in and we get to talk about noise for a little bit.
We took about noise at seven minutes in.
I got it in there because it was important that we talked about noise.
But what did you talk about noise?
You just said, oh, it started and it's random.
We're not going to get rich.
There's a lot of interesting noise moving on now.
I told you about the army lately.
I mean, it says something about where we are in the market where we're like, yeah,
it launched and like we're not getting rich and I'm pretty excited about it.
Whereas like a year ago, we'd be like, it launched.
We're not going to get rich.
That sucks.
So like, you know, some something that we but
how I did well, it's off of the market, so let's just remember how insane things are.
I mean, yeah.
So I only got up not long ago.
And when I woke up, I read the, you know, happenings around the Internet in, you know,
cosmos.
And I saw that there was a to tombstone on say network with Horcrux.
That is that is no way with toy with Horcrux with Horcrux.
That is the rumor concerning.
Yeah.
So it's slightly yeah.
Yeah.
I'm led to believe that it was a am s.
There was a restart of the of the Horcrux daemon and that led to a double sign.
I haven't read the log yet, but um,
crow's nest provided the log to go and have a look through.
Did you look shilty?
You look like a diligent person who would immediately look through that.
I did.
And that does appear with the issue is, um, but that was only the log from one node, right?
So that was the only running one note.
It was a single sonar instance.
No, it wasn't.
No, it was two of three.
It was two of three.
No, no, it's single single.
Why were there three IP addresses with three separate precommits in there?
He was putting three different nodes, but one signer.
One signer, oh, was one signer with three nodes?
Yes.
And that's what makes it unique.
I don't know what the fuck with that double sign.
So I think what happened was, um, so whenever in my, uh, Horcrux service files,
I have like a restart timer so that if, if it's restarted,
it'll wait like one full block effectively before it kicks up again.
And I'm guessing he doesn't have that in there.
And so it restarted and it didn't close down cleanly.
And so it immediately resigned again because it didn't like fully log what happened,
but the blockchain did.
That's what I would say.
Maybe lost the work ahead log or something.
But yeah, yeah, because if you lose the while, obviously that's like a common reason for double
signing, but like most of these remote signers have some concept of essentially the state,
the, you know, the same consensus state file, right?
With the rounds and everything to get around that in case it is restarted.
So that is even with DJ and Horcrux, that's surprising.
Yeah.
I mean, I've never heard of it happening before.
So I'm guessing he just happened to restart it at like the absolute perfect time.
Right.
I wonder if he did it during an upgrade.
No, I don't think so because it was this morning, I think.
Go look at the, but in that log, it has, it has valid, it has the same height that,
that 58.95 round zero.
And it has three, two separate pre votes and two pre commits on two nodes.
Signed vote, but it's only connected to one node.
Horcrux only connects to one node at one time, right?
It fails over.
So why is there two pre votes and two pre commits?
No, I don't know.
It always does that.
It's always connected to two, but it's not, it's not presigning twice with two separate
hashes.
Oh, no, it's the same hash.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know.
It's always connected to both.
If you look at the logs, it always just keeps spitting out like, you know, pre votes and votes.
Yeah.
I always thought that was, I always thought that was,
I always thought that was actually on the, on the raft, not on the,
not based on the number of nodes that it was connected to.
I always thought that it was like, there was a leader and then you have a leader who can't
get to them one single node that was actually working with.
So just so, so the issue, then I asked like, if there was a config change in here or something
else that would force this, it still seems weird that even if, and it's all within the
same second.
So that thing restarted fucking quick too.
Right.
Like it's all the same second.
Yeah.
All these blocks.
It's so light.
Right.
So I, I agree, you'd want to restart timeout, right, five seconds or six seconds or do
something in there.
And there's no reason to, that's still weird that it had to pre-commit and then it
restarted and signed with the, and this time it signed with the local node.
So it did pre-commit and pre-votes.
I'm sorry, pre-votes and pre-commit with two other nodes in the three of the two
centuries, two different centuries, but there's no log for 127, 0, 0, 1 in there.
And then it restarts and it signs the vote with, with round zero on a pre-commit on the
local node.
So the other nodes must have had to pre-commit and submitted it or one of those
two and then it re-signed right away.
So basically Horcrux got lost.
It didn't know that it actually, that it finalized the block.
Did he, did he say this actually tombstone in there?
Yeah.
He said it was tombstone.
Yeah.
So, so I guess Horcrux signed the block.
It died.
It never got the signature back.
Right.
There's no finalization of the block back to Horcrux.
Horcrux doesn't know that the block is not signed.
It starts instantly again and it goes, oh, shit.
I got to sign this block.
It sends it to the local node.
The local node is not one of the ones that are handed to the pre-submit.
It re-signs the same block all in this, in the same fraction of a second.
And there's, but wait, wait, wait.
Hang on.
So there's no, but, but how.
Yeah.
Horcrux should know that the pre, that pre-commit was out, right?
It should.
Yeah.
I mean, there's, there should, there's, I'm sure there's some local state because it
doesn't matter.
Yes, there is.
Because it's plausible that between two consensus rounds, one of the centuries would
go away.
That's, that's like completely plausible.
Correct.
I mean, that's like the purpose of the software, really.
Yeah.
I mean, that's what I'm saying.
It's just the right time before it had actually saved the state yet, right?
So it sends it off.
It doesn't yet send this, like save the state.
It's killed for whatever.
Oh, you're saying it's literally IO.
It's, it's like, it's before it's even done the log, before it's even incremented the
state file, it's, that would have to be a vanish.
The chance of that.
Well, we've never heard of it before, right?
So there's that.
Yeah.
We'd have to be a vanish in your small charts.
Yeah.
Like the first, I might put a cron job.
Yeah.
Okay.
I might put a cron job to just restart my service every one second.
See what happens.
See if I can get a double sign over the next.
On testnet, right?
Yeah.
What?
On testnet.
Do it on Juno.
It's just on testnet.
This was on say testnet this, right?
Or was this on some other testnet?
This is on say, this is on Atlanta too.
It really shouldn't matter though.
It really shouldn't matter here.
I don't know, man.
Atlantic 2 is a little bit weird though.
It's not like in general, tandem and stuff.
But I mean, this, agreed, but this is all happening within a
fraction of a second on the same.
I mean, honestly, it would be, I'm not sure, this seems like a
defect, but depending on what happened here, it would be more
of an issue on a slower block time chain than a higher than a
shorter block time chain, right?
Because like this is basically in this restart.
Well, well, like this whole process designed to work on
normal tendermint, right?
And say it's done some shit to theirs.
And that shit that they've done could cause some issues with
this potentially.
Correct.
Yeah.
It's going back to the like the, like even though you would
intuitively think that the slower block time might leave more of a
gap for the error to happen.
What if one of two things is happening is there's some
interaction with tendermint that's resulted in the state file not
being updated?
And that's where it's not like disk writing is slow at the end of
the day.
It should write quickly, even if it errors.
Like the chance of that is tiny.
Plus there would be.
But there is like a fundamental assumption.
Well, not a fundamental assumption.
There's a pretty big assumption in tendermint that your blocks are
a second at the absolute quickest.
That's kind of like kind of everywhere it's sort of the
assumption in tendermint that it's not really getting it quicker
than that.
So maybe Nell's right.
And there is some like edge case behavior because, you know,
Hawkeruck could be a little bit more of a risk to the
data because, you know, Hawkeruck was developed originally several
years ago and it's had updates and stuff since, but it's still like
a.
It says this is alpha software in big letters on it.
Yeah, do not use a main net.
Yeah, just like it doesn't say that.
But you know, but it should.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm just going to start while we're on this call just
restarting my Hawkeruck's on say prolifically and see what
happens and watch the log.
Why not?
Sweet.
Maybe we'll have a lot of tombstone by the end of the
episode.
What's that?
Yeah, we'll know.
Real-time tombstone.
That's not happened before.
Um, real-time tombstone on the.
Tombstone of the week is ourselves in the chat, by the way, on the
costume front, Ben Davis said, used to work at Shakespeare's Globe.
The original practice costumes were insane.
Fake eyebrows were a thing and made a ferret fur.
So there you go.
There you go.
You need to emote more with larger eyebrows.
Kill a ferret.
That's that's what you can take away from that.
If you take one thing from this week's episode, it's not,
hey, go and check your Hawkeruck set up.
Ferret fur is what you take.
What in this episode?
What part of the ferret?
Probably just the ferret eyebrows.
Yeah, ferret.
You're not stevia.
How many ferrets have to die to get
to get to get one set of fake ferret for eyebrows?
The whole of the whole of the whole of the Horncham
ferret is one eyebrow.
Two ferrets per per pair.
But, um, hey, so follow up from last week, actually, it's not on the spreadsheet.
We're off.
We're off piece tier.
We're off spreadsheet.
There's nothing on the spreadsheet, so it's fine.
We've gone under the rope again.
We were in a very roundabout way, maybe talked about the,
the AIB lawsuit, non-compete situation.
Everybody else is like, oh, please don't bring out the legally complicated thing again.
But, um, I found something interesting in the week, um, following,
because something had been kind of nagging at me that I remember,
again, YouTube poll at some point, I remember hearing a thing and being like,
isn't there a whole thing about non-competes in America?
And I basically looked it up and like citation needed with all these things.
But I think there is actually currently a thing where the FTC is trying to bring in legislation
to limit the use of non-competes specifically, specifically because of tech firms maliciously
fucking each other over via the use of employee non-competes.
And it's something that is, I gather, moderately likely to actually happen.
But it's interesting that that literally that the exact, you know, kind of the,
what's it called, the day-to-day meme, this is the exact one thing we didn't want to happen.
That, you know, this whole situation, which is a bit of a joke, is amazing.
There's actually, there's literally a piece of legislation that people are trying to introduce
to solve this exact problem.
And you're like, hey, that's, that's why it's working.
I bet it won't happen as a result because it's not like,
that's the gig alone.
No, I think we talked about this before.
Like non-competes are really hard to enforce in the U.S.
Like they just, you can't, the U.S. court system will not allow somebody to not live
and not earn or feed their family because they worked at XYZ and they want to go work at some
place else.
Like that, that's extremely difficult to enforce.
So if, so if I, if I have a very specific skill set and I can, I create 5G modems for
Qualcomm and, and I write non-competes that I can't go work at Motorola or wherever else,
that is extremely hard to enforce because that's my skill set.
That's what I have.
And so you can say I can't work somewhere because of whatever, whatever, like that,
those things are typically thrown out instantly.
Now we talked about before, like stealing IP, stealing people, stealing customers,
that's totally different.
Like that is like me bringing what I know to companies, one thing, me rating the fucking
office locker and copying everything off and bringing that to another company to be able
to provide a competitive advantage is totally different.
And that, that stuff is extremely, that could be very painful, but, but yeah, like not,
so I'm not surprised we're trying to throw it out because I don't think actually,
I don't, I'm not convinced that like those, the major, like those major tech companies
still do those.
I don't think, like I haven't seen one in a long time and I haven't heard of them in
a long time.
I think everybody recognizes that they're really not enforceable.
Now there are, like I said before, like intellectual property agreements and like security
agreements and things like that around sharing data, absolutely, but not like, not, you know,
not in that situation.
I had to sign a non-compete when I was at Intel, but that was about a decade ago.
Yeah.
A little more than decade and the, it's definitely changed since then.
Yeah.
I think it's, it's really difficult to like, to limit to like, and the other one would
be the other area would be, would be like acquisitions.
So if you're, if you're a single or a small organization that's acquired and like, and
you have a consideration as part of that acquisition, you're not going to go start a
new company or you're not going to go work for some of these competitors.
That is also, that's, that's reasonable because you're being compensated in lieu of
that.
Like there is a, hey, you're, we're buying this company.
And so part of that purchases, you can't go start a, you know, you can't just leave
the next day and go start a comp, you know, compete against this.
Like, and that's, that's pretty enforceable as well.
Yeah.
Okay.
I can imagine that.
Hey, so you know when, when this bear continues another two years and we have to
decide what we're going to do in lieu of going back to McDonald's, is this going to
just become game of nodes that, that's going to be, that's going to be, that's going to
be slightly complaining general, general, general business owners podcast where I don't
know, I'm going to, so like if you were, if you were going to do a different small business,
what would it be?
I feel like no would be some like specialist.
Like it would be like, oh yeah, we just, we're the only people in Australia that make
helicopter rotor blade polymer.
I'll do roof cleaning.
It seems like relaxing.
Not even, not even roofing, not even.
No roof cleaning.
You know, where you've like spray it down, scrub the shit off it.
Haven't you seen TikTok?
You can make $300 a day doing that or an hour or whatever they say.
Per job.
I don't know.
My ass you can.
Yeah.
So do a roof, go to the pub, spend that $300.
Do another roof.
Don't fall off the roof.
Easy peasy.
Do not fall off the roof.
I was talking to roofers in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the
in the autumn and they were saying that apparently the, the old climate change is
making the roofing game much more difficult because all of the, a lot of the
roofs in, in the UK slate, now obviously black and they get really hot.
Oh, that sounds brutal.
And yeah, and they're just like, they're just like, the country's not designed for
it to be 30 degrees.
And let me tell you, as a roofer, I'm the first person to know that.
And you're like, I can't, I'm not going to attempt this guy's accent because he was
from, he was from Hull, which if you know, you know, right?
And so, but yeah, he was, he was saying, Mike, every, every, he was like every single
day of the summer, he was just roasting out on a black roof.
Something tells me his accent sounds a lot like Tom Hanks.
So I have an accent.
It's all your accents the same.
I roofed my house in the middle of summer and it was not pleasant.
And an Australian summer is a lot more savage than a British summer.
Yeah, that's probably fair.
So the joke about Hull, right?
Is that there's only one vowel in Hull and it's, uh, yeah, that's the Hull accent.
It's like I say, very hard to describe, but when you hear it, you know it.
Oh, hey, relate.
I'm related.
We just really drove around subjects here, but apparently Dennis got the waiver.
So, so, so get me up to speed.
What was the waiver for what?
To work on the open source software that he had previously been working on.
Well, hold on.
It gets more complicated than that though, because Dennis got the waiver, but the person
that was like representing them is now being sued.
Grace.
Grace, that sounds right.
Yeah, that's right.
I was saying Grace, but Dennis has got the waiver.
So Grace got Dennis off the hook and got sued for the...
Oh, and they're showing her for disparagement, right?
Because she was so vocal about it.
I think so, yeah.
I don't know how you can give him the waiver at the, and then there's still just a little
disparagement because the kind of, you're kind of agreeing with her.
Yeah, it's like, yeah, you're probably right.
Is that what you're talking about?
Yeah.
Nice people are crazy.
The, um, in no opinion.
And if you come to Australia, try to pull that one.
Update.
I think I double signed.
Did you?
No.
Well done.
Funnily enough, I used, I used Watch to, uh, I used the watch.
Watch to restart this thing.
Just like, watch restart.
Oh, you did.
Dash N1.
Did you double sign?
He did.
Is it showing her like, is it...
Hoopstone, no way!
Yep, Jail, there you are.
Well done, dude.
This is monumental.
So let's see if I can, uh, present my...
It's amazing.
Uh, there you go.
So yeah, how do you double sign with Horcrux?
Proved.
Here's the tombstone event.
Yep, there you are.
Well, you're missing like fucking crazy.
That's it.
So it's missing like crazy.
Is it just missing or did you actually get...
No, no, it must be tombstone.
It says you're jailed, but is it, is it, are you actually tombstone though?
Well, if I'm jailed, I'm tombstone because...
I guess that's a pretty short period for, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like that, that was the, it had like perfect signing.
So that's, this is about when I started it.
This is how long it took.
Did it do...
Not long.
Dropped a bit there.
Just punching a row and then...
Bang.
Yeah.
Wow.
Oh, it says tombstone right in, uh, in Todd's dashboard.
That's really handy.
Look at that.
All right, I might start spinning off.
So look at that.
It's helping me, isn't it?
Toomstone.
So don't restart every one second forever.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
What, no, no, that proves it on say.
It's really fast block time, but really good.
So go on Juno mainnet.
Yeah.
Do Juno mainnet next.
Yeah.
Or Juno testnet, you know, YOLO, whatever.
Yeah.
So that took about 10 minutes, I guess.
Wow.
Yeah.
Good job.
Well done.
Way to, way to check it.
So when you submit a bug report, are you just going to link this out?
Yeah, it's about 45 minutes in.
You'll find it.
I think we showed the log on the screen.
Maybe didn't.
Anyway, cheers lads.
I can find the log.
I've got it right here.
Well done.
I was watching the log.
Come on, get the log up.
Let's have a look at, get your log out for the lads.
I don't really want to.
Let's have a look, see.
Let's see the log.
Come on.
Oh, look, man, I don't know how to find it.
Like that's, what was the time on the block?
It was 2.49, 2 minutes 40, excuse me.
The 49 minute mark, I don't know what it would be.
21.49, 6 minutes ago.
49, fuck, my logs might not go back that far.
UTC baby, the only times I missed it.
6 minutes?
No, I just, it's not on the screen.
How far could your log rotate?
Well, yeah, just fucking get more.
There's no reason logging anymore.
You have nothing to log.
You might as well kill it.
Exactly.
So what's the, how do you do that with the time thing?
Because I never really.
Journal control and then there's a man fucking live.
There's a, there's a, you can do a, you can do a from on journal control.
From and what's the time format?
Give me one second.
I mean, it's got to be I said.
How's this?
I mean, this is good fucking podcasting stuff right here.
This is, so you can do, you can do.
What am I doing now?
Oh, sorry, you could do since dash, dash since and then do a quote and do like 10
minutes ago, type it out and see if that works with quote, because it'll actually
figure that out.
So, uh, uh,
journal control.
Shit.
Now, yeah, it's just, no, but.
So it was just, man, it's spit out a lot.
So for those who have been back on a podcast player and who can't obviously
see what's up on the screen, who haven't been able to, what, what is, what has just happened
here is null has successfully tombstone to Horcrux node on, uh, says Atlantic to, um,
test net.
We've got Todd's dashboard up.
Shout out to Todd consistently awesome friend of the podcast.
We've got his dashboard up.
It says tombstone on there.
It does.
The notes very, very dead.
It's very, very tombstone.
And we're just, uh, you know, just, it's just your average site in game of
notes where we're trying to get null to get his logs out for the land.
I mean, it's always about the logs.
No, do you have multiple nodes that the signage pointing to or just a single one?
No, I'm multiple.
Yeah.
There's two.
Uh, okay.
I'm going to go see if I can tombstone since I'm only pointing at one.
That's pretty good.
Oh, so all that, all that's a good question.
That's a good question actually.
Right.
Yeah.
That's a good, that's a good additional test.
So, um, say teams like what the fuck is going on?
There's nobody left.
Tombstone.
Man.
Why is everybody bullying our nodes?
Hey, is this, who's this?
Oh, this is mine.
So this is, this is all I did.
I just did the watch.
Yeah.
Sure.
Watch that restart service.
That's every second.
So basically that's every two seconds.
Every two seconds, not every second.
I thought I was going to fall in the chat.
I lied in the chat.
And then I couldn't be bothered to like fix it.
So, uh, so I'm still trying to like make these logs come up.
Not FU, not FU.
You don't want FU.
Yeah.
FU be follow.
You don't want, you don't want to follow it.
You don't want.
Oh, right.
So that sense would replace all the dash FU stuff.
Yeah.
I think that's correct.
I could be wrong.
I haven't done this in a while, but I think that's,
usually what it is.
Yeah.
There you go.
That's 10 minutes ago.
2150.
Yeah.
Look at that.
Fucking A.
50.
So that's too far away.
I'm not, that's too close.
Oh yeah.
50, do 15 minutes ago.
Yeah.
49.
What was it?
49 what?
I thought we said,
somebody replay the fucking tape.
I thought it was,
I thought you said 49.
Well, you're getting pre-commits here.
So it's after this, right?
Yeah.
I think this is about it.
It's going to show.
Hey, how can I make more lines print?
Just space and print.
I'm going to the next page.
Yeah.
Okay.
There you go.
What are you talking about?
We're laughing and learning.
I mean, I don't use this functionality in,
I always follow.
Like, I don't use this in.
No, that's okay.
You can do like up and down and everything.
It's just going to do everything.
From 15 minutes ago to right now.
Six.
Whop.
I know it's stopping.
3149.
Six.
26.
Yeah.
Every two seconds.
Looks good.
You're pre-booked and re-printing.
Yeah, you're okay.
We're still voting.
It's not much, but it's honest work.
This is truly the life of a validator.
Like, huh?
Okay.
Something went wrong.
A few times.
I know.
If you're listening in.
This is good, honest, validator work right here.
This is good podcasting.
We're doing the closest to actual work I've done all day.
Oh yeah.
I could probably get a block on when you tombstone to.
Yeah.
Yeah. Does it say what the height was?
Uh, I can take a look.
This is good.
This is good podcasting right here.
It did say on Todd's sexy dashboard, didn't it?
It did actually.
Yeah.
For those, for those listening at home,
we're just scrolling logs here looking for the event.
Just try to matter what the fuck is going on here.
Hey, this is fun.
This is, I don't think I can.
I'm turning validators just to feel alive.
I love it.
Yeah.
This is actually my first ever tombstone.
Oh, look at that.
I'm live on stream.
That's amazing.
Congratulations.
It's not even my first jailing.
Thanks for doing it for the.
Oh, I've gotten jailed before you kid me.
Who gives a shit about jailing?
I know you.
I thought you jailed on a network early doors.
Hey, I know you like.
We don't.
You've been jailed on it and jailed and made it.
Get the fuck out.
You've been jailed on a lag two and dev three like a thousand times.
What are you talking about?
Yeah, I've never been jailed and made it.
Oh yeah.
I don't think well, I was an amix of that.
But yeah, I mean, I think.
Yeah.
It's still testing.
If we're counting test nas then I think I've double.
I've never I've never double signed anything, but.
So we've scrolled through about a thousand pages here.
And so we've gone through about 1500 lines.
I think you I think you're still.
And it's all been in the same minute.
Yeah.
I think it might still be if you dash FU it,
it looks like it's still doing its job in terms of pre-signing,
pre-commit even though you're jailed, right?
So that.
No, it's a signed vote, right?
It shouldn't do that if it was.
Is it showing sign vote?
Yes, it's signed vote.
Round zero.
I don't know, but it's just a signer.
Does the signer actually know if it's jailed?
It doesn't.
It's just getting a package and signing it, right?
And I think so.
I think it knows.
Scrolling logs is a good bound name.
Scrolling logs.
Can you query the CLI for the unbonding block?
God damn it.
Come on, man.
A former housemate had a band called the Flaming Block.
You're pressing up and down the solution you can do.
You had it go just command tab to Todd's thing.
Because I think I think he had a bend.
I can send you a fucking hat too.
It doesn't say what blocky teams that none.
Well, it should show the block of the current block that it's on,
because you shouldn't be moving forward, right?
In theory.
Yeah, no.
I mean, the other thing you can do is just look at the height.
Because you know what height the double sign.
The height's progressing because it's connected to someone else's.
Yeah, but you know what height the double sign was,
because it was on Todd's dashboard.
No, it's not on Todd's dashboard.
That height's progressing because it's connected to a...
It's still connected to the RPC.
Okay.
I had the same thought.
Oh, fuck, man.
All right.
So it would be query slashing, signing info.
I got to find your fucking save all upper.
All right.
Give me a second.
I just got to get into that node.
This is good.
This is good entertainment.
This is content, man.
This is content.
I like how whenever Null got jailed,
high tides validator got pushed into the active set.
That's good stuff.
Just printing, you're printing misses now.
Yeah.
I think so.
All right.
So you're all doing save Atlantic too, are you?
Yeah.
So the two savants on the chat are both tombstone.
Let's see, your developer...
Oh, your cons pub.
Fucking shit.
One second, please.
Holding.
The fun sounds of somebody trying to cross work out
all the various different addresses.
I love it.
I love that we have 10 different addresses.
Here you are.
I think it's very convenient.
I mean, the thing is that every network has their own weird way
of doing all the various stuff, and it's always a faff.
It's almost like it'd be a lot easier if there was all this
cryptographic nonsense in the middle of all of it.
Man, where is it?
Because the definition of it is sort of like needle in a haystack,
but with a loaded revolver that's already gone off.
I mean, I feel like it's going to be pretty uneventful
when I find it anyway, because it's just going to be like
it's signed and then it's signed.
It's going to be like...
What if we wrap the Byzantine behavior message?
We could do that, right?
From our logs, we could take our logs and pipe out
the Byzantine behavior message, right?
That's what I'm trying to find there.
You could probably...
Yeah, you could probably...
Could you not do like say, sayDQ, evidence?
Actually, would that...
Yeah, what did...
What was the...
Because you can query the evidence, can't you?
I can't remember the exact CLI command,
but it was something like sayDQ...
That's what I'm looking at.
It's query-slashing-signing-info.
But actually, you're looking at the wrong...
I think you're looking at the wrong log,
because I don't think Horcrux knows, right?
It would only be in the node log.
Horcrux doesn't know you're signing or double-signing
or anything else.
It has no fucking idea.
It's just a signer.
Go to the SAID log.
Well, TMK knows.
Well, the only thing we can see here is...
Like the only thing we can see is that it's coded
on the same block with different signatures.
So we really need to know the block.
I feel like that was directed at me.
I'm trying to...
It says invalid character S looking for beginning of valid.
Fuck, man.
If I had a same node, I'd SSH onto it right now,
and I'd be pressing around with the command line.
I'm on-slashing-info.
It's just not coming up.
I'm not sure...
All right, let's just give up on this shit.
It's tombstone.
So...
The grats are being out 10 minutes.
That's like...
There you go.
Kids.
No regurts.
No regrets.
And I'm sick of looking at logs.
That's pretty boring.
That's boring shit.
Yeah, I wonder if I can check my node, actually.
Yeah, that's good.
So hopefully that signer will continue to run
and keep those nodes at the head, though,
so that I can fire up another.
So just get straight back in the mass.
What's your valid cons address?
Do you know?
Can you see that to me?
Because I have the endpoint here that you can hit.
I'll put it in...
It's this one.
It's put in private chat.
Our Valkons is the pain in the ass one to get in it
if you're not on the node.
It's in the Explorer, actually.
Yeah.
It's where?
It's in the Node Guru Explorer.
They publish it, which is nice.
Oh, do they?
That's handy.
Yeah, agreed.
So...
So other launches impending.
Can we talk about Noble?
Because the...
Noble, the private app chain.
FRN...
Zed.
Yeah, referenced in the title of this very podcast.
Oh, you didn't.
He did.
Yeah, well, it was just there for the taking.
Like, regardless of the fact that I haven't got any of those
fucking takings, I don't know if you do.
I hope that this tombstone is not going to, like,
taint my good standing with, say...
No, I think it's good stuff.
Yeah, just yelp your way out of it.
They're going to come on.
They're going to be on the show, right?
I know you reached out to them.
I reached out to them, too.
So they're going to come on.
So we can walk them through how this is for science.
Yeah, and we'll just say that...
Oh, just remember that anybody who tombstones is automatically
completely incompetent and should be banned.
Straightaway, they have to do the long walk from Mega City One,
and that's it.
You know, that's how it works.
Mega City One.
You ever watch Drudge Dread?
That's like...
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Man, I've watched some ass movies lately.
There was a...
I watched this...
Let me tell you.
I watched some ass at my time.
I watched this movie yesterday.
Look at him, bro.
My father just...
My father just arrived yesterday afternoon,
and I watched this movie with her on Netflix,
and it was total ass.
Was he called The Shawshank Redemption?
Because that film was rubbish.
Yeah, I mean, that's like in the same league
as Shin-Laz-Lister.
Pretty shit.
Shit.
No, it was some fucking horror, and it was horrible.
Oh.
Oh, witch.
I mean, there was a whole genre of horror, as you might...
Oh, no, it's like some recent production of utter shit.
Was it?
I just got a name.
Was it something good, like The Wicker Man, that's going to be like...
No, it was like, oh, run away or something.
Something fucking absolutely stupid.
Parasite is to die for, though.
It's a South Korean film that is...
That won an Oscar.
Fuck.
It's a very niche...
It's a little indie film that won an Academy Award.
Did it?
I didn't know that.
Best film film, though.
Yeah.
And possibly the best...
So that's cinema...
I don't pay attention to the awards ceremonies,
to be honest with you.
You have to go look that up.
I might have got it wrong.
I think you got best cinematography.
Bringing me back to my thing about
if you just watched the best cinematography.
Hey, did I like pre-Fusse this tombstone with that tagline?
What do you mean?
On the name here, Null and then the Skulls.
Did I like pre...
Wow.
You thought about it.
Just like the Rugmaster.
Jeez.
Yeah.
I can see the future.
I've preempted twice.
If anyone's wondering why I keep looking off
into the sky on the other side here,
there's like a portrait 39, 34-inch ultra-wide.
Just a distraction model there, as I used to call it.
Well, it's absurd.
Yeah, it's great for logs.
Okay, so Parasite won four Academy Awards.
It won...
Didn't win cinematography, so I'm wrong.
My theory is up at it.
It's shot and smoke is fucked.
It's dead.
They won Best Picture, Best Director,
Best Original Screenplay,
and Best International Feature Film.
There you go.
It deserves it.
And the palm door, it can.
So quite a lot of accolades there.
But yeah, you should watch Parasite.
Sure, see, that's right.
Did you get a block?
Sure, see.
Yeah, that's the block.
It's 484-0302.
484.
So, does anybody else...
I don't even know if you can get it in the US,
but have you heard of a Western series called The English?
That I haven't heard of, but I am working on 1883 right now,
which is basically a Western soap opera.
It's great.
That's the early version of...
Yellowstone.
Yeah, and while Null was over,
he definitely dropped spoilers right at the very end.
We had no idea what was going to happen,
and then he was like, boom,
that's when this is about to happen, right?
And I was like, I guess it is, isn't it?
He didn't even know it was a breakable to Yellowstone,
and I'm like, oh, you see it?
I'm like, oh, fuck, man, has this happened yet?
I'm like, what? Has this major event happened yet?
Yeah, and I was like, oh, shit, I'm just dropping spoilers.
Oh, it hasn't?
Okay, so I'm looking at my watched history in Netflix,
and it's Better Watch Out, and it is...
Okay, that sounds like a share film, to be fair.
That's the title of a share film.
It is...
Art of Shit.
Do not watch it.
What's the name again?
Better Watch Out.
And this is like a Netflix production,
so fuck you, Netflix, for making me watch that shit.
Geez.
Okay, but hold on.
We can't just judge the name,
because It Follows is one of my absolute favorite horror movies,
and that's a pretty horrible name.
IT Follows?
Yes, IT Follows.
It Follows.
It came out in, I don't know, 2014, 2015, and...
Was that a Netflix production?
It was not a Netflix production.
No, but it was like, it is an indie film, I do believe,
and it's fantastic.
That one I highly recommend.
But there's a certain level of suspension of disbelief
you have to take with it.
Well, I mean, that's true of all movies, I guess.
Got weirdly philosophical at the end.
Then you have to remember that they're actually actors,
but then you have to forget that.
I mean, good coms, good coms.
Such a fine line.
It's a fine line, it's a fine line.
But yeah, no, sorry, I would really, really very strong recommend
for the English.
Speaking of things with a bad title, really bad title,
was recommended to me, and I was like,
yeah, that sounds like file under the list of things
I'm never going to fucking watch.
And they were like, it's a Western.
I'm like, I don't get it, still file under the list of things
I'm not going to fucking watch.
And then, I think, yeah, it got nominated for a couple of BAFTAs, I think,
and then actually did watch it.
Almost like, it's very slow and very dark, and not much is happening.
Stereotype, but yeah, this is my kind of jam.
And then, yeah, it's very, yeah.
You should have said Emily Blunt was in it, then I would have been all about it.
But like it is basically, you know, Heart of Darkness,
it's basically kind of like Heart of Darkness, but as a Western.
Oh, interesting.
You know, it's got that kind of vibe where, you know, just like Apocalypse Now,
which is also a kind of retelling of Heart of Darkness.
It's got a little bit of that going upriver to find out what the fuck happened.
And like in this case, it's like, there's this little fucking town in the middle of nowhere,
and there's this woman who's like, I guess like an impoverished English aristocrat,
who's trying to go there across the West, and everybody's trying to fleece her and
take her money and shit, and she's getting kind of angrier.
And it's like, what are we going to find in this town?
Why is she going there?
What's the fucking deal here?
And there's two stories.
There's one which is a poor scout who's just been demobbed from the US Army,
and then there's this aristocrat, and they kind of meet, and they're both sort of going
in the same direction.
And so it has this sort of two people on the same path,
but not traveling together necessarily kind of thing.
And also, yeah, the whole kind of heart of darkness, like what are they going to find
at the head of the river kind of vibe to it?
And it's good.
It's good.
It's very, very dark and very, very, very, yeah.
I guess I just like, I think, yeah, whatever.
I basically went into it with no expectations, possibly that's why I think it was so good.
Maybe if I went into it with super high expectations, I'd have been like, yeah, it was okay.
But yeah, I wasn't really surprised by that.
It's the best thing to watch recently, that's for sure.
And it doesn't hurt that much.
Ramos, that was the best validator I saw.
Yeah.
How are you getting on with that log?
How are you getting on with that log, Mel?
I've only seen so many things recently.
So I'm about out of movie chat.
Wild Isles, the new David Attenborough.
I don't think that's the block.
It must be the block after that because it all signs 303.
So it can't be 302.
Yeah.
So 302 seems to be fine.
And then 303 is where it started.
Yeah.
303 you sign and 304, I don't see you in there, which I'm not sure if that's the block that you,
but I don't see.
It's not a transaction, right?
So it doesn't show up as a transaction.
So I was kind of looking through the logs.
The 303 is interesting because it went into rounds.
So it went round zero.
So it did a pre-vote on 303.
It restarted and then it pre-vote 303 with a different signature.
And then it did a pre-commit on 303.
What are you looking at?
On both those.
So I'm just looking at my logs.
I'm both thoughts.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah. So it did a pre-commit with the same signature.
And then a, okay.
And then it went to round one.
So that was round zero.
And then it went to round one.
And it did a pre-commit and a pre-vote on one node.
Okay.
And then it says, okay.
So error signing vote.
So it did a regression on round one got to last step three.
So then height 303, it did another signature on the local host.
And then it restarted again.
And then it was nuked.
So it must be somewhere in those three lines.
That last one there, the sign vote again on 303 in round one.
It did it twice.
It did it once on the remote node and one on the local node.
Yeah.
That does suggest that that's the course of the problem.
Is that somehow it was able to do that second.
Yeah.
Puzzle.
Was it a proposal or a vague?
Or it's waiting for a response that the node received the pre-commit.
That's probably what it is.
It sends it out and then it's restarted while like during that.
It's waiting for like a little TCP act, right?
Like some sort of response that the packet is done.
And then it's outside of the state because it's literally in flight already.
And then.
Hang on.
It's an error assigning the vote and then it's like voted again,
but it had already voted.
It just didn't get a confirmation by the way.
You didn't get a confirmation.
Yep.
That's probably what it is.
You're right.
So that could be a couple of things.
The way the services are closed, you can control the way like Unix and other types of
services are closed.
So in this sense, you would probably want to wait until you receive an act or you want to
give it some sort of timeout on that closure to make sure that anything that's outbound
has the ability to come back.
Right.
And so like that would be like, like you're just, you're just doing a system.
You're just doing a system D restart, right?
That's how you're doing.
Yeah.
It's just restarting the system D over and over and over again.
Yeah.
So that's system D that's programmable, right?
And you would want to, you'd want to be able to make sure that that in that in the system
D's not not like in your configure the system D like in the application itself,
when it receives a system D shutdown that it's actually waiting for outbound returns,
because it's shutting down so fast.
Basically, it's not it's not waiting for even a TCP acknowledge.
So.
Yep.
It's just saying I'm out of here.
It just, it just quits.
And so it never gets the act that, that the, so it doesn't know the package was sent or
the packet was sent or it doesn't write it because it's not receiving received,
received that the packet was received, right?
So it doesn't think that the TCP packet was sent.
And so therefore there you go and it shits the bed.
That's crazy.
That's a good, that's a good defect.
I mean, I guess the solution is don't do that.
It's quite hard.
Yeah.
I mean, that's quite, I guess that's quite an easy, potentially quite an easy fix,
but it's also easy to see why it would be forgotten about because the, the scenario in
which you don't anticipate getting the response from that because the service is shut down
and it's restarted and as recent would require it to be moving pretty quickly.
Yeah.
The question is, I don't, I don't know if there's a system to control for actually,
would you manually restart a service for it to put a pause in?
I'm just, you can do an automatic restart pause.
Like that's pretty easy to do, but I don't know if you can actually do anything
where like, Hey, I just, I just run a, you know, restarting system D and system D knows to hate
that when this process stops to pause for X seconds.
Right.
But the fix is in the software, isn't it?
To just say what it shouldn't, yeah.
Yeah.
If it's, if it's when it starts, it shouldn't be doing that behavior in the case that these,
I guess, God, there's actually, well, there's a bit of a, there is a solution there, but it is.
This is different.
What happened to Kroos and this, by the way?
I don't know if it is.
Cause he signed one and then it restarted and then he signed it.
Same one again.
This one's got a regression with a different node.
His, his didn't have a regression in it.
But again, that could be, that could be related to not receiving the app, right?
So this signature, by the way, is the same.
So the 303 signature is the same.
So the step regression, see that, that looks like the node replied with,
like that, that the node actually received the receipt on a different round.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Cause it went to rounds either though, but the round, why would the rounds go that fast?
You're doing this like literally in milliseconds, right?
Well, there is, there is like a lot of round ones.
If you watch the say logs, there's a lot of round ones.
So this might be a say thing because it, it's so fucking fast that it's, uh, it does lots of wild
shit.
Yeah.
But, uh, anyway, that's fascinating.
That's pretty cool.
I mean, again, yeah, that's a good question.
I don't know if this is a say thing.
I don't, we were talking about, um, trying out a different test net and try something
that's not at 300 millisecond blocks, but that would be interesting to try to.
So just like, yeah, try it on a different test net and restart the thing like every
fucking quarter second or something.
Right.
Hey, hey, the fray, will you vouch for me if I tombstone on Juno?
Yeah.
I mean, I think, I think most of us tombstone back on the Astarty days.
So you're like, I mean, you can do stone on main bed.
It's not going to cost you much at the moment either.
It's five Hertz.
Call me an ambulance.
I'll read it.
I'll get myself stakes to someone else.
Then tombstone.
Yeah.
Just sight.
Yeah.
There you go.
Yeah.
I managed to get that meme totally wrong.
What is it?
Cool, cool, an ambulance.
And then he pulls the gun and.
What?
You know the.
No, no, I don't.
You know the meme, the meme, there's like a guy getting robbed like an old man.
He's like, oh no, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, an ambulance.
And then the mug is like, huh?
Like, like he's having a heart attack and then the old man goes, but not for me.
And he pulls out like a shotgun or something.
Okay.
It's like this, it's like this meme format.
So memes are this thing that kids use.
Actually, memes are this thing where millennials use the kids use fucking TikTok, don't they?
I'm sorry.
The freighter, did you say something like controversial?
What's what's Rama talking about here?
I just said you can tombstone a mainnet and it won't cost you.
It won't cost you much.
Oh, hi.
It's just factually correct.
Like in the grandest scheme of things, it's going to cost you what about $500?
If you've got a hundred thousand stake, something like that.
Brutal.
What's the, what's the, what's the slashing per hour mainnet?
Is it 5%?
I think it's 5%.
Yeah.
Okay.
So it's going to cost you $5,000 if you, if you've got a hundred thousand.
I mean, five grand might not be much for a big shot like needlecast.
King knows $500 on the fucking line of poverty.
It's, you know, that it puts us under.
It's about, it's, it's a handful of days before the end of the tax year.
So I think it depends whether the slashing would count as a, as an income loss.
Oh, it's a taxable event.
It's a taxable event then.
It would be sad because it would basically come out of employee payroll, but we'll just,
we'll just tell all the interns that they're going to have to fight each other for them,
for their pay.
It'd be easy peasy.
Ben Davis says, core one is noticed, you know, price at last only took a year.
It's not, that's not fair.
That's not fair.
It's funny.
I mean, it's fair.
I mean, it's, it's actually fair.
We've got an update.
Did you do that?
No.
Almost more interesting.
So they've already done, the strange law team has already done analysis on it.
And they think they've found the issue with it and they are going to remove
Horcrux having single signer mode in the next release.
Boo.
Digen Horcues.
No, I was like, wait a minute.
That's my interview.
That's not the output we want.
What?
That is not a solution.
That is not a fucking solution.
Well, before we decide that the dollars use case should not be supported.
That's fucking awful.
I'm going to take it out.
That's bullshit.
That's not a solution.
I can sign with a single signer on say, I cannot with a raft.
But I mean, the problem doesn't, it doesn't exist if you don't just fucking rapidly
restart the thing anyway.
Just put a, add a, add a time out, add a thing that, you know, knows, it knows the state.
Like just add a thing that looks at the state and then skips a block before it starts trying
to sign again.
Yeah, I agree.
I think there's other ways you can solve this.
Horcrux.
I think, I think now it's time for you to finally elevate.
Yeah, there you go.
Maintainer, the maintainer of Horcrux Classic.
Yeah.
Degen Horcrux Classic.
Horcrux.
It's the greatest drama in the Horcrux community between Horcrux and Horcrux Classic.
We'll see, we'll see how it works out for both camps, huh?
In five years time.
Now the question is, can there be IBC Horcrux?
Then it could be a Horcrux app chain.
You got to pay to keep your nodes alive.
What, what was that?
Was that the signal chat or was that the, this is like a chat in Twitter telegram.
What, what, what chat was that?
Chillsy, where you saw that?
Yeah, let me add.
Is that the telegram one?
Yeah, let me add you to it.
One of 75 different communication methods.
I wonder what, I wonder why single node, would this be a single node issue?
I think it has to do with like, if A, yeah, you're in it.
What's the name of it?
The chat?
I'm gonna wave at you as you can see it.
Nulls bullshit.
But it's called Horcrux Hangout.
Oh, that's it.
So I think if you have multiple signers, like the odds of all of them are starting at the
exact same moment, I think is, is where the issue is, right?
So like if one node restarts for multi signer, then it'd be totally fine.
Yeah.
But yeah, yeah, that's what I was asking.
So if you have infinite nodes, you can never double sign.
That's right.
And you'll also never sign a block.
So you'll, because the latency between them will be too high.
So you'll finally achieve the platonic perfection of validation.
Schrodinger's crux.
Schrodinger's, yeah, it's all getting a bit.
Yeah.
I guess that makes sense with the raft.
If you never sign, if you never sign, is that our perfect signatures?
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense with the wrap.
I guess the, that's not, I don't know if that's a solution of the signing piece,
or it just means that you can't do it all at the same time.
So therefore it wouldn't happen.
The solution is, is if you never sign, you can never sign twice.
That's right.
That's, that's exactly what I'm getting at here.
Yeah.
But so just, you know, you don't actually have to sign anything to be a validator.
You just have to be able to cover the slashing cost.
So it's just on jail, like, you know, Cronjob on jail.
And every 10,000 blocks.
And you got to, well,
Chill validation had a really cool signing idea for a validator.
Really, you don't even need to see a node.
You can just consume what everyone else is signing and see which one has signed the most
and just send back that same signature and be like, boom, I agree.
Then you gave a light, a light validator.
A light node.
It's just a relay back to where it came from.
Yeah.
And then, yeah, you could probably do that just like on Cronkat.
Don't even need to run anything.
Cronkat a fucking thing going back.
Uh-oh.
Maybe.
It's like a whole set is just echoes of the same signature.
There's only one dude doing it.
Well, on the logical conclusion, right?
There's only the one person actually signing and then everyone else just echoes it out.
Yeah.
I see the same, I see the same signature.
Wow.
I see the same thing.
I mean, that would be like, like,
peak decentralization theater, wouldn't it?
If it just turns out everybody's just echoing the same one.
It's like Twitter.
It's kind of what we're already doing.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
Where we're at right now is very much the theater comedy.
It's the pre, although it was, I mean, was FTX like the dot-com boom or dot-com crash moment
for probably not.
It's probably going to be a lot worse, isn't it?
There's no way that was bad enough.
I mean, really, it's kind of disturbing if things are already going to get worse from here on out.
Is that like, what better, depending on your view?
We've said there has to be a compelling event that's going to change the trajectory.
So we'll see when Noble launches.
I'm curious on what native USDC does if that is a input or an output.
Like, getting away from that, like having that be an extremely frictionless bridge, if you want to call it that,
is that going to be a good idea?
If you want to call it that, is that going to increase the amount of individuals in the cosmos?
Or is that going to make an effect?
I think it's a good compelling event that should hopefully change something.
Well, it's interesting as well, because I guess there's a lot of TVL already locked around other
bridged USDC, like Axelar, USDC and stuff, and like that's what a lot of other chains have used.
So there'll be a question, I guess, whether or not liquidity migrates in that direction, like is in Noble.
But if that value is locked, or if it's in like, you know, DeFi protocols, where there's like a more
long-term locking mechanism or something like that, it'll be interesting to see if that actually
does migrate, what pace it migrates at, because that could be like a serious barrier for adoption,
you'd have thought.
Everybody agrees that bridges are, I mean, we want to be able to be in the IBC world, right?
So the long term is that we would hope that IBC does replace that structure.
And so, like, it's a good thing that that's happening, right?
Like that's a positive, it's not a negative that that value's going away.
I guess it's just like the question of how long it takes or whether, and also whether or not,
like, Noble is the solution that will...
Well, that's a question, yeah.
Because there's also, well, yeah, I don't know.
I think it's one of those where, especially in my current sleep deprived state, I'm not sure,
I wouldn't be qualified to talk about it at the best times really, although I will.
But doubly so in current situation, whether or not it is actually the best way of...
It's the difficulty of like a stablecoin like that.
There's also from a different ecosystem, like how you can build the incentives around it
in such a way that it is going to work and take market share when there's not a situation
where there is...
Where people are like, I guess the things there are enough DeFi protocols that need a stablecoin,
but like where we currently are right now is basically it's builders and super enthusiasts.
Again, we're kind of back to that level of users and super enthusiasts probably,
and then super D gens on the other hand, there are definitely some hardcore D gens who are just
still keeping the faith.
But whether or not it's the right time to be evaluating new technology and whether or
not it can achieve product market fit, that is like an open question, I would say.
A bit longer term.
That piece is more longer term, right?
Like, I think there's time to define that last one, but I'm hoping for some...
Like there needs to be eyeballs and we want to be able to have...
There's good usability and there's good application, so it'd be nice to be able to have...
I'm hoping IBC and the ease of USDC coming in changes some controls there.
I also think it actually takes a huge piece of value out of the atom, but that's different.
So the atom is...
If you want to say the atom's a hub and that's the way to get into Cosmos, is it now?
Isn't USDC winning the stablecoin? Be the way to do that.