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Yeah, I don't know what the phrase doing areas.

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I just said true tethering tethering to my phone.

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So that's better.

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That's better my guy in business.

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Back in business.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent

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validator teams.

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Hello, and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the cosmos from

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independent validator teams.

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And that was the strangest intro we've had in a long while.

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I couldn't tell when it started.

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I couldn't tell what it ended.

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Kind of seemed to end halfway through a bit of the thing.

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So yeah.

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Hey, guys, what's going on, man?

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I mean, that was the normal intro, right?

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I feel like that was the normal intro.

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Maybe I just got right by the internet there.

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Well, yeah, yeah, you just reconnected to the next thing you know,

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you're like, oh, shit, we're live.

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Like, oh, we hear what's happening.

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Yeah, that's how it works.

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I mean, but this is why, you know, go back to the last week's conversation.

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This is why we get the business internet, you know, to a separate sim card

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so that when everything goes to shit, we can still join the podcast.

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So for context, those that don't know, the fray has just had to tether to

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his phone rather than use his home internet because it was playing up.

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It was not working great.

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Which is weird because it should be a two gig line.

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And if it wasn't, obviously today it was 700 kilobits for a second there,

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which is somewhat of length, but I would say it was a good bit less than 700

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kilobits is pretty bad on this side.

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So, well, I mean, I'm using I'm using Collins internet.

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So courtesy of artifacts staking.

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Thanks, guys.

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Oh, yeah.

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Where are you yet?

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I'm in LA.

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No, no, no.

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Yeah. Yesterday I rode a bicycle from Manhattan Beach to Venice Beach.

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Oh, yeah.

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And then Santa Monica and back.

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Yeah.

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It was probably like, I don't know, 45 kilometers.

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And, uh, man, I woke up this morning and my quads and my knees were fucking wrecked.

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After four kilometers.

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Yeah.

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Meanwhile, the phrase like, do that like sleep.

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I literally coffee shop.

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I actually did do 45 kilometers last Tuesday to go to our fine, our finance guys and back

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because they're way out south of here.

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So just cycled over at the meeting cycle back.

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I was not in a good way.

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Like for me, that was a lot like I haven't done a lot of exercise in the last like 18

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months and it's the validator way.

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Yeah.

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Holy shit, man.

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Like riding there.

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The tire on the bike was like probably one third flat, which didn't help.

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And then the rear toy and then when you stand up to pump, it was just like, I don't know.

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Pump.

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It was, this is an old rusty bike that I borrowed off someone.

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When you stand up to pump like the front suspension was bouncing right up and down.

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So I wasn't getting like the full mojo into it.

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And, uh, you know, it was noticeable by the time I got back, I feel like I put in probably

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an extra 30% work that I didn't need to.

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I mean, that's the story of life.

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Isn't that really like, you just summed up my entire experience of everything.

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It's like, just put it about 30% more effort that was even necessary and ended up just tired.

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And emotional at the end of it.

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So the whole, the whole effort aside though, went to Santa Monica.

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Uh, I had a great coffee and a nice.

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Where did you go?

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So I went to like Venice Beach and then which, which, which coffee place did you go to in

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Santa Monica?

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Oh, it's called like blue bottle, something or other.

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It's not that one on the corner.

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Is it on the main drag?

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Yeah.

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Well, it is on a corner.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I bought a coffee pastries and like a, a window like seats down the window on the

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left hand side.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Have you been there?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I am.

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I worked from there for about four days in like a month, just before the pandemic

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basically.

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Blue bottles.

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Such well traveled.

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Such well traveled.

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Yeah.

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It's the only place where they just, as long as they kept buying coffee, they didn't fucking

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throw me out.

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So I sat there for about an hour noting and they were like, yeah, I mean, he bought a coffee

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right?

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So they're just happier there.

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Yeah.

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So I was like, if it filled the Los Angeles meme and the barista was just loudly telling

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anybody who had listened all about his acting auditions.

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And, oh, and his band, his band, he was in what, from what I could tell based on clothing

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and vibe, I was feeling classic rock or maybe hair metal that I pushed, but probably more

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classic rock.

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So that was kind of funny.

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It hit a lot of, I was just saying, it was the same people most days.

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So it's kind of like, let's see what we're going over here today while I'm trying to

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fix this iOS bug.

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So the thing that struck me the most about Venice was like just the sheer quant of chads

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getting around.

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There was like mega chads everywhere.

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I couldn't believe it.

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Was it not like the homeless camp on the beach?

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That was the thing that fucking struck me.

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Yeah, no, there was like, there was homos, but the fucking chads, man, like as soon as

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I got there, there was like 10 and a half foot tall people with that were like wedge

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shaped with like 40 facts.

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I'm like, and then just wandering around like, what is going on here?

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Like what is this place?

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It was just chads everywhere.

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Just spend a lot of time.

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It's fucking work out and like try to get in movies.

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I guess so.

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I mean, if you're going to do it anywhere in the world, that's probably the place to

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do it to be fair.

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But yeah, I just remember being super freaked out by not freaked out.

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It's not right term, but just so like the extent to which there's like a tent city on

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the beach, like it's India and this is LA and you're like, whoa.

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I mean, there was far out.

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There was a bit of that going on, but I mean, I don't know if that will clear out because

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of COVID or something.

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Maybe it caught.

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No, it was still there, but I just don't feel like that's unusual these days.

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Like you go to a capital city.

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There's like a tent city there somewhere these days.

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It's common now.

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It's commonplace.

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There's like no, there's no move along anymore.

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It's like, oh, you want to live here?

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Okay.

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No worries.

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Go for it.

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Yeah, fair enough.

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I mean, too fair.

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I don't remember seeing that anywhere in Australia.

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Oh yeah, it's it.

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Fuck mate.

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It's there.

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Yep.

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Definitely.

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Yeah.

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In Canberra.

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Maybe not.

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Well, I don't really get around Canberra that much, but you're sure in Sydney and Melbourne.

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Oh yeah.

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I do fucking Canberra on the weekends.

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No, I don't.

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Yeah, of course you don't.

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I've been there twice.

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You go to the Gold Coast, don't you, for a good time?

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I do go to the Gold Coast, but I don't fucking knew it, but I don't go to like surface paradise.

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Okay.

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Do you hire a jet ski?

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No.

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No, you're not a jet ski guy.

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Now we get hiking in the mountains.

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There's some good mountains just like in the interland of...

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Have you forgotten the rule of jet skis?

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Nobody ever looks unhappy in a jet ski, right?

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I can't afford to hire a jet ski, man.

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Well, maybe not the bear market, but you should have gone there doing the bull market.

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You could have bought a jet ski.

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Put it on the company, whatever.

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But I call for entertaining.

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I like, I put all my money into my notes now.

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I put all my money into Showa.

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I don't know why I pronounce it like that.

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Showa.

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Showa.

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Yeah, Showa.

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Showa Queen.

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So I guess like in reference to my trip, Kozles Ham says, Nal-Eat-Taco, St. Bluthera of Targo.

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So everyone has actually said that.

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And I have not come across one fucking taco track.

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Okay.

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So go to Venice and then like fuck off a ways to the...

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I think it's like a Whole Foods or something, and it's like about eight blocks back from

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the beach, maybe a few more.

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There are street tacos outside there.

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They're really good.

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Never came across any.

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It's opposite.

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Going back.

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It's opposite a fake English pub called the Cock and Bull.

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So Jake's advice to me, he said, if you're in Venice and you see any fucking food truck

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that's got a line up outside of it, stop and get out of your fucking vehicle and wait and

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line.

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00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,480
Yeah, but I didn't come across any.

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So I didn't have to do that.

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So I hit Jake.

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So on your advice, Jake lived in Venice.

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So I hit him up yesterday.

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I'm like, I'm going to Venice.

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I'm like, I'm in Venice.

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So like, you know, where's the spot?

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Okay.

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00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:11,720
I found the spot.

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There's a good Irish bar.

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00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:13,720
All right.

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00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:14,720
I found a coffee.

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00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:15,720
All right.

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00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:16,720
Thanks for the information.

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00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,920
I'm heading out of town here and like I called him fucking three hours later.

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00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,320
It's like, oh yeah, man, I could have told you like all these places, but he just didn't

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read his messages.

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So, you know, ignored it.

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00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:33,320
I mean, you could have asked me for specifics and I would have told you where those places

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were.

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00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,720
She's you're kind of like, and I was just like, well, I mean, like you live in London.

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00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,520
How would I just assume that you knew anything about Venice?

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00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,280
Because I've been to LA three times, four times.

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00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:45,640
I'm pretty well traveled.

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00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,560
Like reasonably well in the U.S. anyway.

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I've got opinions.

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00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:50,920
I got opinions on pizza in Chicago.

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00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,080
Like that should have been a clue.

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00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,760
Maybe my opinions on pizza in Chicago were wrong, but I still have opinions.

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00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,520
You should tell you something.

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00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,040
You weren't a fan of the deep dish.

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00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,640
I think I said, yeah, I wasn't a massive fan of the deep dish on the whole, but the Lou

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00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,600
Manatees was pretty decent as far as the chain I gather.

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00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:14,760
So do you know that I am now actually considered well traveled by Americans?

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You are because you're America.

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00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,560
Well, no, by American standards, I am well traveled.

238
00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:23,280
Well, yeah, because most Americans never even been outside the state, right?

239
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:24,280
Yeah.

240
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:25,280
Yeah, pretty good.

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00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,840
You're not spending enough time in specific places, but you I mean, you're all over the

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00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:29,840
fucking place.

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00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,440
I definitely fucked up in terms of time, time on location.

244
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:34,440
Yeah.

245
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,080
So you never plan going in.

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00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,360
So you just mean there's nothing wrong with that either, right?

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00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,480
You're just kind of going down, going with it.

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00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:41,480
Yeah, right.

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00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,720
And next time you know, someplace, you know, you want to go back someplace.

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00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:45,720
You're like, I'm good.

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00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,920
I like I've had a good time, but it has been like, I don't recommend anyone just go to

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a place without a plan.

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00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,240
It has been an incredibly expensive fucking endeavor.

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00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:56,240
Yeah.

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00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,000
That's how I feel about Australia, New Zealand, because I've been backpacking there.

256
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,200
It's just like you can just mill around, just burning kangabuck and kiwi bucks.

257
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,200
You're just like, why is everything so fucking expensive?

258
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,840
It's like, ah, because I had no plan.

259
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:08,840
Yeah.

260
00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,080
That's why everything says it fucking expensive.

261
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,080
So what was your what was your worst place?

262
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,520
Definitely when you're when I go.

263
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,440
That's going to be controversial, but when you're booking when you're booking shit like

264
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,120
a couple of days ahead instead of months ahead, it is expensive.

265
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,120
Yeah.

266
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:29,640
Even their flights, like I caught a I caught a plane from Portland, sorry, from Seattle

267
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,360
to LA.

268
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,040
Had I just booked that like a couple of weeks in advance, it would have been like a third

269
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:36,040
of the price.

270
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:37,040
Yeah.

271
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:43,040
And and everything here is costing me like, you know, an extra 50% in kangabucks.

272
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:47,080
And the thing is, though, like if you can look at the kangabucks conversion, though,

273
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,280
is it's always going to look terrible, isn't it?

274
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,520
Well, I mean, it's just a it's just it's a tough pill to swallow because I was here

275
00:11:53,520 --> 00:12:00,120
like 10 years ago and our dollar at the time was almost parity and things were a lot fucking

276
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,120
cheaper.

277
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,720
And so yeah, I mean, when the phone was 2.2 US dollars, I mean, we can all remember the

278
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,760
past now, but you know, it's a bit.

279
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,040
No, no, but what about it?

280
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,320
What I'm saying is that last time I was here, things were cheap for me.

281
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,800
It was like you want a beer?

282
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,040
It's like four bucks for a pint.

283
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,680
And you know, that was like four bucks Australian.

284
00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:21,840
And now you want a beer?

285
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,600
It's costing me like fucking $17 Australian.

286
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,200
Like it's a big difference is what I'm trying to say.

287
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:34,040
And like, you know, if you're if you're paying $200 a night for a hotel over a month, it

288
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:35,040
fucking adds up.

289
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,040
Yeah, sure.

290
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:37,040
Yeah.

291
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:38,040
Yeah.

292
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:45,040
I think I've got friends like, you know, lavender and artifact who have like put me up for a

293
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:50,840
night so I can enjoy these beautiful cities without hammering money.

294
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,920
Did you actually go to SF in the end at any point?

295
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:55,920
To where?

296
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:56,920
San Francisco.

297
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:57,920
To San Francisco.

298
00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:58,920
No.

299
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:07,080
So my plan was actually to go from Portland, San Francisco, LA, but I had like an Amtrak

300
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,960
pass, but I didn't book far enough ahead, right?

301
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:14,040
So I couldn't get a ticket from Portland to San Francisco.

302
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,040
Yeah.

303
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:20,160
So I was going to go to San Francisco and stay with Jake for a little bit, but I couldn't

304
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:21,160
get a ticket.

305
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,040
So I ended up just flying from Seattle to LA.

306
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,040
Oh, so you went north.

307
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,040
You went from Portland to Seattle.

308
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,040
You look at train north.

309
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,200
Did you go to Seattle for a little bit?

310
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:31,200
No.

311
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,240
So I was I was staying with Schultz.

312
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:36,240
Yeah.

313
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:44,960
I was staying in Portland and they were coming to Disneyland down here in LA.

314
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:50,080
So I got a lift with them to the Seattle Airport and the water plane from Seattle to

315
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,080
Yeah.

316
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,560
So everyone's actually, you know, my highlight of the last probably like week and a half,

317
00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,720
two weeks has just been like a fast food safari.

318
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:01,720
Really?

319
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,080
That's one thing this country is good at.

320
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,000
I've been hitting all the shit.

321
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,040
So like in Australia, Taco Bell is ass right.

322
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:16,760
And man, I had like a crunch wrap supreme in from Taco Bell.

323
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:17,760
That shit is epic.

324
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,360
I would eat that every fucking day.

325
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,360
You saw Jesus.

326
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,000
Oh, yeah.

327
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,720
And so then we were like, Colin here at from Artifact.

328
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,200
He's been like, he's taken me on the safari.

329
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,920
Did you go to internet?

330
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:32,920
Yeah.

331
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:33,920
Yeah.

332
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,560
I got a shirt for my partner.

333
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:36,560
She's happy.

334
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,800
And I haven't been to Water Burger, but he took me to like Costco.

335
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:45,000
It's like you have to have the like Costco hot dog.

336
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,440
The $1.50 hot dog or whatever it is.

337
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,640
$1.50 hot dog is like they've never changed the price of this thing.

338
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,560
So I'm having like a $1.50 hot dog.

339
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,600
That's like going to Greg's and Newcastle, I'm guessing.

340
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:56,600
Yeah.

341
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:03,240
Last night we went to Greg's and you buy you buy a steak bake.

342
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,760
We had a Costco ribeye.

343
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:08,920
Holy shit, man.

344
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:09,920
Costco steak is good.

345
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:10,920
Oh, you guys cooked it.

346
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:11,920
You mean?

347
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:12,920
Yeah.

348
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:13,920
Yeah.

349
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:14,920
Yeah.

350
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:15,920
It's actually pretty decent.

351
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:16,920
Yeah.

352
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:17,920
Oh man.

353
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:18,920
It was like, it was fresh and tender.

354
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,920
I was like very surprised for the price.

355
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,840
Costco is pretty good over here.

356
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,680
We get ribs and like Boston butts and shit like that.

357
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,120
That's usually pretty cheap and they're usually pretty tasty.

358
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,600
Oh, it was good.

359
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:31,600
That's funny.

360
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:32,600
What else we have?

361
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:39,720
So we had, so last night we had Chick-fil-A, which is pretty epic.

362
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:51,880
Chick-fil-A deluxe and just like jam that fucking sauce all over the thing.

363
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,880
And then we went to like, what was left?

364
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:55,880
What's that?

365
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:56,880
No, what was left?

366
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:57,880
What was left?

367
00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:58,880
Oh yeah.

368
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:04,440
So I mean, like it's probably more of a local thing, but we went and got these like thick

369
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:05,440
shakes.

370
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,200
I can't remember the name of the place, but they were epic, man.

371
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:15,160
It was like, it was 1300 calories in a thick shake.

372
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,600
I could fucking sleep.

373
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,040
Too funny.

374
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:25,640
And then for breakfast this morning, we went to Sidecar Donuts this morning for breakfast.

375
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,040
So I had a coffee and I fucked up.

376
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:34,120
I had two donuts and I was shaking till lunchtime.

377
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:39,800
I had something called a butter and salt donut, which was just crazy.

378
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:40,800
And then...

379
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:41,800
Donut, your genus.

380
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,760
And the other one was like a cinnamon swirl type fucking situation.

381
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:47,760
Yeah.

382
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:52,160
So basically I've just been on like a food safari and it's been pretty good to be honest.

383
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,440
Like it was a good way to go out for the last week, just hitting all the fast food joints.

384
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,600
Now I know, like, you know, when you're watching a movie and you're like, I got to get fucking

385
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:00,600
checkfully.

386
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:06,440
And they're like, that's a good fucking, that's a good chicken burger.

387
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,440
Oh, man.

388
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,920
Well, it sounds like you've...

389
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:13,320
So when you're out of there now, right?

390
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:14,800
Like today or tomorrow or something?

391
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:15,800
Yeah.

392
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:16,800
Nine o'clock tonight.

393
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:24,000
So probably head off like an hour and a half after we finish the podcast here.

394
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,720
Yeah, get down there and get registered.

395
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:27,720
Yeah, man.

396
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:28,960
It's been a good time.

397
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:38,800
I went to LAX after a send off joint and I was feeling fine until I got to security

398
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,240
and then it hit me and I was just like, oh my God, they're going to get me.

399
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,160
They're going to get me.

400
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,160
They know.

401
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,640
And then I was like, and my brain was going, it's fine.

402
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:50,640
It's legal now.

403
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:51,640
It's totally fine.

404
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,040
You're in the clear.

405
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,600
And that didn't help at all.

406
00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:00,880
I was just sweating and not making eye contact with anybody.

407
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:01,880
It was horrifying.

408
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,480
And this was back when my passport had...

409
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:11,960
I went around North Africa a few years ago and so it had like all the Arab Spring Rogues

410
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,760
Gallery of passport stamps as well.

411
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,520
So they take one look at it all and they're like, where the fuck was this?

412
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,360
And you're like, hey, no worries.

413
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,040
That's just too nizier.

414
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,040
No worries.

415
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:23,040
There's just about that.

416
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:24,040
No worries.

417
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,960
Nothing that's funny about that place.

418
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:28,960
And they're like, what are you doing there?

419
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,560
And I was like, what do people do really when they go places?

420
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,640
You know, man, they just go places and they hang out.

421
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,640
They're like, this guy is fucking stoned as fuck.

422
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:43,360
I'm just like, you know, man, you just sometimes you just got to go to a place and see what

423
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:47,960
the people like, you know, just try not to get fucking thrown.

424
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,720
The thing is, I guess, if they're seeing you out the door, they don't get a shit for your

425
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:52,720
terrorist or not.

426
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:53,720
Right.

427
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:54,720
That's how it works in America, I guess.

428
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:55,720
Sure.

429
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:56,720
Plus or minus.

430
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:57,720
Yeah.

431
00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:58,720
Maybe plus or minus.

432
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:04,960
But yeah, that fucking, the two, that one stamp, that Tunisia stamp, but before my passport

433
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,280
switched over to the new one I have that caused me, the Americans didn't like the Tunisian

434
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:10,800
stamp was what I learned.

435
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,280
Like what he says exactly.

436
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:13,280
Yeah.

437
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:14,280
I'm just glad.

438
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:15,280
I'm just lucky.

439
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,280
I had the fucking foresight to not let them stamp my passport in Cuba back in the day.

440
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:25,240
So I guess I would have been even more problems, but that's another story, I guess.

441
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,440
Should we get the cosmos stuff or this week?

442
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,440
What's happening cosmos?

443
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,640
I mean, there was a there was a, wait, I know what I know what happened in cause.

444
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:33,640
Oh, you got something.

445
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,640
I got something.

446
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,720
I'm just I'm just very, very.

447
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:47,040
We had a quintuple tombstone, I think, simultaneously, right?

448
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,040
Is it?

449
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,040
Is it?

450
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,040
I score this though, because.

451
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,040
So you're right.

452
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,040
I could keep pressing the button.

453
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,040
You can keep, you can keep hiding it.

454
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,040
I could keep pressing the button.

455
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,040
Total pain in the ass for me.

456
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,040
Every one of those.

457
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:09,200
Is it, is it really a quintuple if it's the same validate around five networks or are

458
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,520
we counting them individual vows?

459
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,520
It's a point of order.

460
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:14,520
Yes.

461
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:15,520
Yes.

462
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:16,520
Yes.

463
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:17,520
Yes.

464
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,560
Is that a new one?

465
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,880
Ben Kingsley has the opinion, I think that.

466
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,760
I mean, it's quite a philosophical question, really.

467
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:26,760
Is it is deep?

468
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,760
Are they all unique tombstone events?

469
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,440
Are they all part of the same?

470
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:31,440
Why?

471
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,440
I mean, I think they probably all count as the same tombstone.

472
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,520
They show us fucking layers.

473
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,520
So which tombstone are you talking about?

474
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:45,400
I believe noticed on five networks due to a misconfiguration while rolling some validators.

475
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:52,320
So I think to Yusef's point, it was actually all kind of the same incident.

476
00:20:52,320 --> 00:21:00,160
If you were doing, if you're doing page duty, you probably have called it all the same incident.

477
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:06,560
The incident like the Underwhelming Porcupine Tree album, which I believe came up in conversation

478
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:07,560
the other day.

479
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,920
I apologize as well to listeners.

480
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,080
This is really peak exhaustion me and I've just had a sip of beer.

481
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,040
So this is going to be an off track podcast.

482
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,040
I can feel it in my bones.

483
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,200
It's going to be one of those.

484
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:29,560
I mean, things that things that things are, we've had, we've had a lot of fun, shall we

485
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,400
say over in another network as well the last week.

486
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,720
So it's been a fun week.

487
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,760
We also found out fun, fun facts.

488
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:48,440
So bear in mind that Callum and I wrote a lot of the documentation or a portion of documentation

489
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:56,960
for Cosmos 1.0 and Callum wrote Cosmos Hero to Zero, which is one of the definitive guides

490
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,760
to getting started with Cosmos and we did the Cosmos for Dummies.

491
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,440
So Cosmos and Buy Dummies YouTube series, which I still get a load of messages about

492
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:11,880
in terms of people getting started with Cosmos and whatnot.

493
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:18,040
And so the two of us, I would like to think we kind of were reasonably good at Cosmos.

494
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:24,760
We were very tired when we instantiated the contract last month and we uploaded the wrong

495
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:30,960
version of the contract at using the wrong binary and the wrong configuration, the triple

496
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:37,960
threat and only discovered it this week when we were just like, okay, there's actually

497
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,880
a substantial amount of funds locked in that contract now because we just configured it

498
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,880
fucking wrong.

499
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:50,400
And there's actually no recovery pathway for that.

500
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,200
So we are fine.

501
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:53,440
Very well.

502
00:22:53,440 --> 00:23:00,880
This is fine dog with flames in the background.

503
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:08,760
So it's important to recognize your mistakes and then come up with a path forward.

504
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:15,280
We came up with the very grown-up idea to burn the funds because that's what grown-ups

505
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:16,280
would do.

506
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,040
We realized the contracting question actually had a burn function even though it didn't

507
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,200
have the other functions we needed.

508
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,360
It had a burn function.

509
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:28,000
So we're just going to torch the fucking lot, sweep it out of the rug and happy days.

510
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,520
I think that's the conclusion there is you win some, you lose some.

511
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,120
That's the grown-up thing to do.

512
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,920
It's like a hand in the air.

513
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:39,920
The noise go away, man.

514
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:40,920
It doesn't always go away.

515
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,600
That's what you learn in life.

516
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,240
It's like the cat on the string JPEG, right?

517
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,840
It's really what you guys are.

518
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,840
Hang in there.

519
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:48,840
Yeah, it's like that's the...

520
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,840
It's about the pressure of the cat.

521
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:53,840
Hang in there.

522
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,680
It really sucks when you're on a mutable type of structure to do that, right?

523
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,000
You can't just say, hey, can we roll back the simple data?

524
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,040
Yeah, can we just roll back the whole chain to just fix this by the fuck up by one team

525
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,120
who are a bit tired?

526
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:08,120
Yeah.

527
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:09,120
Yeah, so...

528
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:13,120
So, Sporthy's dropped in here with a comment.

529
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:17,520
Of course, it has to be fucking Juno related.

530
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:23,240
Juno Gaprop incoming to recover tokens from the contract.

531
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,240
Burn them.

532
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,240
Burn them.

533
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,240
The contract.

534
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,240
Burn them.

535
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,240
Oh, jeez.

536
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:29,240
Which contract?

537
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,240
That's spicy.

538
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,240
That's spicy.

539
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,240
Which contract?

540
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,240
You talking about Prop 16?

541
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,240
I'm talking about it.

542
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,240
I'm thinking of it.

543
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,560
Just let that thing just die in the shadows.

544
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:42,640
Don't ever talk about it.

545
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,840
Just let it be.

546
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,840
Don't bring it up.

547
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:46,840
She's talking about you.

548
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,560
I don't realize just how insane that situation was last week.

549
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,480
I was supposed to talk about this last week, but I didn't because I'm an idiot.

550
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:53,480
I forgot I'd done it.

551
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,480
I went to...

552
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,080
I mean, Sporthy might entirely not be talking about that.

553
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,080
No, she's talking about you.

554
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,560
She's talking about, like, is there an incoming Juno Gaprop to fuck your fuck up?

555
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,560
We've just gone, oh, yeah.

556
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,160
Yeah, it's probably Prop 16 related.

557
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,160
Yeah.

558
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,160
Do I have to explain it?

559
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,160
We've just...

560
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,600
We just fucked it up.

561
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,600
It's probably... it is definitely problem-existing keyboard and chair, and the chair in question

562
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:18,840
is probably this chair.

563
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,400
The keyboard is this keyboard.

564
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:22,400
So that's fine.

565
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,400
All right.

566
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:24,400
So, hang on.

567
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,120
Let's real talk for a second here.

568
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:31,480
I need to apologize to Sporthy because...

569
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:32,760
Because you wrote Sporthy.

570
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:33,760
I did.

571
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:34,760
You pre-wrote it.

572
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:35,760
Yeah.

573
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,760
Today?

574
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:37,760
No, no, no.

575
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,760
We were supposed to have Sporthy on last week or the week before.

576
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,840
It was like the eighth or something like that.

577
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,080
And I done fucked up.

578
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,680
The eighth was not last week, my guy.

579
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,920
No, no, it was like weeks ago.

580
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:51,920
And...

581
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,360
It was like the 15th today, and that was like...

582
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,360
No, it was like the 25th.

583
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:59,200
It's like April now.

584
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,040
Yeah, I fucked up and...

585
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,040
Cheers.

586
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,960
Because I wasn't there and you guys didn't remember.

587
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:08,960
And so...

588
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,960
Oh, I like that.

589
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,960
That was a little share of flavour.

590
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,520
That was a little share of blame.

591
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:14,520
That was a little...

592
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:15,520
Are you a parent?

593
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,520
Because that was definitely a little...

594
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:24,960
Hey, I put it in the group chat and I said that Sporthy was booked in and you guys didn't

595
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:25,960
follow up.

596
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:26,960
So...

597
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:34,520
So, Sporthy just said in the chat, Null rugged me on International Women's Day hashtag

598
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:35,520
IWD.

599
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:41,240
I mean, I'm...

600
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:50,160
The whole reason that Sporthy was coming on was to talk about the Women's Day and Cosmos,

601
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,240
like Women in Cosmos and their valet.

602
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,320
So, I really fucked that up.

603
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,840
If I'm not a mod...

604
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,640
Well, Sporthy, since you're in the chat, you should probably come on next week.

605
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,480
And since the rest of us are in the organisation here, the organisation process, we couldn't

606
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,720
probably not screw it up.

607
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,840
I mean, come on right now if you want.

608
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,240
DM me, I'll flick you the link.

609
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,600
You're clearly fucking awake.

610
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:14,600
So...

611
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:15,600
That's just it.

612
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,200
I mean, everybody just joined in.

613
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,320
You could have up to eight people on the stream.

614
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:21,320
Yeah.

615
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,400
Like, we've got a spare slot here in the screens.

616
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,160
Okay, so back to my point.

617
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,160
My point was that, right.

618
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,160
Okay.

619
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,160
PTSD.

620
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:33,160
What?

621
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,960
So, it was this event, right?

622
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,280
It was a scientific blockchain convention, essentially academics, right?

623
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,480
An academic blockchain thing that happened to be in a city in the north of England.

624
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,920
So I was like, sweet, I can get that.

625
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:50,920
Awesome.

626
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:57,440
Cycled over, like the full DJ and idiot I am, just like rocked up basically on the bike,

627
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,480
locked up my bike, went in and was like, it's actually a bunch of academics talking about

628
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:07,760
blockchain and I'm just like an actual DJ and just sort of here.

629
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:13,680
I don't know, it really struck me just how fucking insane, like everything that's happened

630
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,960
in the last two years, all that kind of stuff is genuinely insane when you go and look at

631
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,440
where researchers are, what research they're talking about.

632
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,000
Researchers, there were all sorts of...

633
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,880
I mean, I actually wrote down some of the paper abstracts.

634
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,800
And I get also, if you're doing an abstract, if you're doing a paper, it takes some time

635
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,160
to get it published and whatnot.

636
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,000
So there's a lead time on it.

637
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,440
So stuff is going to be a little bit out of date, right?

638
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:46,840
But we're talking about like, yeah, like there was a thing about blockchain, like using account...

639
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,800
Oops, it's dropped the pen.

640
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,520
Using like carbon accounting on the blockchain for the construction industry.

641
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,840
That's kind of your wheelhouse, I guess now.

642
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,960
Solidity smart contract upgrade patterns, which I feel is very relevant as a cosmiser and developer,

643
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:03,960
not...

644
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:12,560
There were, okay, two very, very good abstracts from Swiss guys, kind of no surprise, who had

645
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:13,560
this...

646
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,240
One of them had this really interesting thing about basically platform volatility in lending

647
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,560
protocols and how it was tied to inequality and token holding.

648
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,080
And you could basically show that the more big...

649
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,640
I mean, it's kind of intuitively makes sense, right?

650
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,880
The more big back holders you have, the more potential problems you have with any kind of

651
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:37,840
DeFi protocol, but in particular lending protocols, and that was really, really interesting.

652
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,640
And the HHI was correlated with the risk.

653
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,760
And so the HHI from memory is also the one that people have been talking about in terms

654
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,880
of decentralization of valid data sets.

655
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:48,880
So there's...

656
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,520
Yeah, it's basically about concentration of deposits.

657
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,960
There's something interesting there versus, you know, like the Gini coefficient, right?

658
00:29:54,960 --> 00:30:00,680
Which is normally used or maybe most commonly used to show inequality.

659
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,880
And there was some enterprise stuff.

660
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:04,880
There was some...

661
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,440
There was actually quite an interesting one about DAOs, where they were basically like,

662
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,480
yeah, basically nobody has really quantified how many DAOs are out there and who's being

663
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,160
paid by them.

664
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,200
And they just don't work like a normal employer.

665
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,160
And there's this whole semi-hidden industry of people who are literally now being paid

666
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,800
by DAOs that are just not in the employment statistics.

667
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,000
And because everybody's like, yeah, nobody's being paid by a DAO, that's bullshit.

668
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:33,760
But even in Ethereum, even in other ecosystems where DAO tooling is less sophisticated, there

669
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,280
are actually people being paid by DAOs.

670
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,400
And there is a path to employment as well by DAOs, which is very, very different to

671
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,800
a path to employment in traditional employment.

672
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,680
And so this person was basically like a more, I guess, a labor economist.

673
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,720
And they were sort of like, nobody's really studied what the career path is.

674
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,000
If you want to be employed by a DAO, like how you even get employed, nobody has just

675
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,920
written up a paper saying like, well, maybe nobody has.

676
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,840
But this was like, her thing was like, we actually need to kind of analyze how people

677
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,640
end up employed by a DAO and how that employment works.

678
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:11,000
Because we just don't know unless you work in that sector, you just don't have any idea.

679
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,760
There's no visibility of this currently.

680
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,480
And yet it's clearly more and more people.

681
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:15,760
So that was kind of interesting.

682
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,680
I thought that was quite pertinent, I guess, to Cosmos where everything is a DAO.

683
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,120
Because even all the chains are DAOs, right?

684
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,320
Why were they so focused on employment or compensation?

685
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:29,320
What was that?

686
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,800
Was it a compensation and crypto type of?

687
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:37,280
Well, so they were kind of like, look, if I was to say how many people work for startups

688
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,880
in London, I could give you a pretty concrete number, right?

689
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,760
Just as like a labor market number as part of the overall like census or like an idea

690
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,560
of how people work or what work people are doing in the economy, which is like, you know,

691
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,960
from a policy perspective or political perspective.

692
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,160
And they were like, look, I can't tell you how many people are full time working for

693
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:58,280
it now.

694
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,080
Maybe it's none, you know, whatever.

695
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,080
That is funny.

696
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,080
Null's just fucked off.

697
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,560
He's like, yeah, fuck it.

698
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,200
So for those listening on a podcast player, Null just got up, walked out of shot into

699
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,200
an Airstream trailer.

700
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,880
He's gone.

701
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:13,880
He's fully gone.

702
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,840
I thought that was a fake background.

703
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,760
I didn't realize that was actually an Airstream trailer in regards in California.

704
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,520
There's like a Chick-fil-A in there or something.

705
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,840
Who gives a shit about how many people are working full time for a doubt?

706
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,960
I don't understand why that's a yardstick.

707
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:28,960
Like who cares?

708
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:29,960
What is it?

709
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,640
Well, I think because this is academic research, isn't it?

710
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:38,720
So like you might do like any emerging market and say like, oh, policy makers consider this

711
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,560
to be unimportant, but we've done some research that has shown that there are, you know, like

712
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,800
maybe you do something on like informal employees in the economy.

713
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,800
Like it would be, you could see like somebody doing a research paper as an economist on

714
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,800
how many people work in the gig economy in London, right?

715
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,160
That would be a valid research paper to say, hey, you know, policy makers think it's not

716
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,000
that many people, but it's actually loads of people.

717
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,480
And here's the evidence.

718
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,040
So I think it's that kind of context where I think a lot of people who aren't in the

719
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,200
space are like, dows, yeah, all right.

720
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,880
And this, this, this person's basically like, yeah, scoff all you like, but we actually

721
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,520
just don't know the number and we don't really have a good way of finding out yet.

722
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,960
And maybe it's an intractable problem, but I think it's a problem that, you know, there's

723
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:27,560
a whole bunch of things that are very different like stability and pay path to employment.

724
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,720
And there's really no methodology for talking about it essentially.

725
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,120
And as labor economists, we essentially need to come up with that methodology for describing

726
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:42,320
how labor works in this new paradigm where you can work a long time for free and they

727
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,400
get paid retroactively and all sorts of other things which are quite not unique in the scope

728
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:53,000
of all employment, but quite unique in terms of like general modern employment within a

729
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,000
regulated economy.

730
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,680
So that was, I thought that was quite an interesting one.

731
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:03,160
And then there was a really good talk on the four types of stablecoins and the, the various

732
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,280
systematic risks associated with them.

733
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,080
Wait, there's four types of stablecoins?

734
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:13,360
And they categorize them as four main types, right, where there's kind of exogenous endogenous,

735
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,160
so like internal, external stability mechanism, and then centralized versus decentralized.

736
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,400
And they basically did a bunch of simulations on types of stablecoins with those characteristics

737
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,320
like fed into a statistical model to see what would happen to them when faced with essentially

738
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,640
like things like a bank run essentially, or like a demand side pressure or a supply side,

739
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,480
well, it's actually no, it would be supply side demand side pressure and a variety of

740
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,920
other things and what they found.

741
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,920
So an example.

742
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,440
Wait, wait, let me guess.

743
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,440
Let me guess.

744
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,800
The centralized one was like the most stable?

745
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,320
The exogenous centralized was the most stable.

746
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:51,320
Yes.

747
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:52,320
Of course.

748
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:53,320
I wouldn't be.

749
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:54,880
I'm surprised, surprised.

750
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:55,880
Right.

751
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,400
But the decentralized ones weren't the most unstable.

752
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:07,720
The most unstable was the centralized endogenous for which their market example was terror

753
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:11,600
and terror collapsed in exactly the same way their model predicted.

754
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:12,600
Oh yeah, that's right.

755
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,640
You showed me that, right?

756
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,920
I think I share, in the group chat, I shared a graph where it just shows like supply side

757
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:25,200
pressure and it shows, I think, Tether reacting to a demand side price, a demand side pressure

758
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:30,600
and it kind of does a really weird wiggle, but it does eventually revert to the mean

759
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:37,880
given a sweet generous type situation where there's not additional pressures and whereas

760
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:45,160
like UST is just, wow, it just like, once it pushed past the point, it does collapse.

761
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,200
Now there is a say.

762
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:53,440
I feel like I don't need to point this out, but I recognize that without a meme graph.

763
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,920
Yes, but of course, the point of academic research is to prove it repeatedly that if

764
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:04,560
you have a statistical model that you can feed inputs in within the range of any hypothetical

765
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,680
stable coin there and it will collapse.

766
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,320
We just have some old stable coins.

767
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,480
Since you want somebody to say your DGN tendencies are smarter than these academics.

768
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,120
We all agree.

769
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:19,440
Everybody on this, we all agree.

770
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:20,440
Okay.

771
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:21,960
I know that's what you want to hear before we can move on.

772
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:22,960
We're in.

773
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:23,960
We're smarter than the academics.

774
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:24,960
Yes.

775
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:25,960
Well done.

776
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,960
Especially on these DGN strategies thumbs up, right?

777
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:28,960
Okay.

778
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:29,960
All right.

779
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:30,960
Let's move on.

780
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:36,400
So basically the problem with the centralized ones is there's a higher risk of a bank run.

781
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:43,920
So that's why the exogenous one where there is external backing, the fact that there is

782
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,800
external backing just the same as there is in a traditional sort of central bank scenario

783
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:55,400
can mitigate the risk of a bank run essentially, whereas the endogenous one where it's basically

784
00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,920
just collateralized by another fucking DGN crypto coin or whatever, the centralization

785
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,840
works against stability.

786
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:09,280
But then there's some interesting stuff that I didn't fully understand to be honest around.

787
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,840
There were some other examples like obviously die, but there were some synthetics and stuff

788
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,040
where they were giving examples of how you can build additional incentive mechanisms

789
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,480
using over-clateralization in a decentralized model.

790
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,840
The problem with the decentralized model is basically in all of their modeling, they were

791
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:29,640
kind of like, you just need to over-clateralize to a point that it begs the question why bother

792
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,160
other than the fact it is crypto versus a traditional central bank.

793
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,400
So because it has to be so over-clateralized.

794
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:42,280
And the caveat underneath all of this is of course, if you smash it with a big enough

795
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:47,040
crisis, almost everything deep acts, almost everything collapses because there is a point

796
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:53,040
where a complex system cannot regain equilibrium.

797
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:59,080
But they were modeling an inbound impact, an outbound impact, and then a total catastrophe

798
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:00,880
and then the catastrophe every time.

799
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,720
But it's also partially due to a loss of confidence too, right?

800
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:06,720
Yeah.

801
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:11,120
I mean, there's obviously a point where essentially confidence collapses at the point that the

802
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,440
thing hits zero anyway, which is if you're a government with a central currency, there

803
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,280
is a way of coming back from that.

804
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,960
But there is no way of coming back from that with something that is relying on a trustless

805
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:24,960
system.

806
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,400
So that was kind of interesting.

807
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:33,800
For the viewers, can you explain the difference between androgynous and the other thing that

808
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:34,800
you've been saying?

809
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:40,080
So basically androgynous was the way David Bowie presented during the Ziggy Stardust

810
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,080
era, his career.

811
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:46,280
And to some extent, the thin white juke era, when he was moving into the Berlin years.

812
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,200
What was the question?

813
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,240
Difference between androgynous and the other word that you've been saying.

814
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:53,240
Okay.

815
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:58,080
So androgynous and exogenous is basically just about how the thing is collateralized,

816
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,400
is my understanding.

817
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:04,800
So one of them is kind of external from the crypto ecosystem, and one of them is internal.

818
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:10,080
But I guess there's degrees of that on there because there's like literally collateralized

819
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:16,920
by your own fucking coin and then there's collateralized by a basket of coins.

820
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:22,600
So I think the distinction on, say, synthetics is my understanding anyway of synthetics is

821
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:28,640
it's collateralized by a basket of things as well as being decentralized and is a collateralized.

822
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,400
Synthetics are collateralized by nothing.

823
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,440
It's just hopes and dreams.

824
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,520
Well, are the crypto coins right?

825
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:39,600
Sorry, I thought you meant like synthetic representations of like.

826
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,600
You know, Tesla.

827
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,880
No, with an axe, it's a brand.

828
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,880
Yeah, okay.

829
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:52,560
Before we get too far down the old podcast line today, I just want to point out that

830
00:39:52,560 --> 00:40:00,680
you have neglected to share with us a passage from your Twitter handbook of randomized Twitter.

831
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:01,680
I thought we moved down from that shit.

832
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:02,680
Really?

833
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:03,680
Did we ditch that?

834
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,080
Like when did we ditch that?

835
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,080
Like a month ago.

836
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:07,080
No, good point.

837
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,080
Good point.

838
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,080
No, no.

839
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,760
Seven cities ago for you.

840
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,760
Was I not here?

841
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:13,760
Okay.

842
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,760
Here we go.

843
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:16,760
Wow.

844
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:17,760
Okay.

845
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:23,320
So I've landed on a page which it just has a picture of what I presume is drill there

846
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,280
with the sunglasses in Master Chief's armor.

847
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:34,840
The title of the page and the section of the book is Halo and it says, my Christ, I am invigorated

848
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:41,040
using my new official old Spice Dr. Pepper Halo 3, exfoliating forehead wax.

849
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,360
This is God.

850
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,040
This feeling is God.

851
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:50,880
So I'm with you, sir, but let's burn that book.

852
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,480
You just brought it back.

853
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,720
The following tweet is there's a rumor that Master Chief will take off his mask and reveal

854
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:00,640
that he is the BTK killer.

855
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:01,640
Do not do this.

856
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,800
It would be disrespectful to the Halo.

857
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:05,800
That's better.

858
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:06,800
Amazing.

859
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:07,800
Amazing.

860
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:08,800
Amazing.

861
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:09,800
Amazing.

862
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:15,760
So the final interesting, the final funny thing that happened at this conference was

863
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,280
that somebody did an NFT talk where they were talking about social impact, sustainable

864
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,680
finance NFT and you're just like instant I-roll.

865
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:30,600
My favorite thing, I was just sat there as somebody who works as a data engineer.

866
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,600
I was like, I just don't understand why any of these use cases would just not be a database

867
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,600
like you don't need an FT, you don't need the blockchain.

868
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,320
The crown jewel of the things that they, and I don't mean to just bash on this academic,

869
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,320
right?

870
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:51,760
Because I think they mean well, but the kind of like the example they gave was the WWF,

871
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,280
not the wrestling, Tombstone, but no way.

872
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:03,560
But the Pandas, the WWF organization, the ecology charity, their NFTs, which were launched

873
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,280
earlier this year.

874
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:09,600
And the fun thing about that is I don't think the academic mentioned this, but of course

875
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:18,840
that launch was so botched and so controversial that it came up in the British parliament.

876
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,080
Because so it's kind of complicated.

877
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,240
This is obviously the biggest wildlife charity in the world, I think the biggest.

878
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:31,400
But the patron of the charity is Prince Now King Charles, right?

879
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:37,200
So although they're like these fucking hippies basically and academics who work on ecology

880
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:43,640
restoration, they have this weird sort of connection with the British aristocracy and

881
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,880
the British upper class.

882
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,160
It's kind of like they've been grandfathered in, right?

883
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,640
And so most people care about them for whatever reason.

884
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:57,360
They're like, green party scum, green piece scum, but WWF are respectable people who wear

885
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:02,400
shirts and ties and care about the loss of chaff inches from regional woodlands.

886
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,800
I don't know, I don't pretend to understand it, but there is some acceptance of their

887
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,920
cause in the British establishment, right?

888
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,680
And so the fact that they just issued NFTs, it was apparently this really con- it was

889
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,720
in this was in all the papers in the UK anyway.

890
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:20,640
It had not been signed off by everybody, right?

891
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,640
Shall we say?

892
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,560
And it got to the point that people were asking questions in parliament being like, what are

893
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:31,080
these crypto NFTs from establishments that we all know and trust?

894
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,040
And it cooked me up hand and the whole project was pulled because they were like, this is

895
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,320
a total disaster.

896
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,240
So yeah, that was kind of funny because I was like, oh, they're using an example that

897
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:50,840
was literally in the papers as a massive clusterfuck and a public, a real public catastrophe.

898
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,840
It's still a stupid thing.

899
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,840
It's just a little turnabout.

900
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,840
It's just a little, it's like a fine line.

901
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,480
It's just so, yeah.

902
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:11,480
So I was like, you may have a point, but that's probably not the example to use was my conclusion

903
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:12,480
on that.

904
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,760
I can't buy a Cross River Gorilla for 340 USDC though.

905
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:17,760
There's still some available.

906
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:18,760
How are they still available?

907
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,800
I think they got, I think they got, I think they got launched and then the whole thing

908
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,160
turned into a clusterfuck.

909
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:30,960
So they pulled their involvement, but I think they were already out in the wild as it were.

910
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,920
They'd already rewilded those NFTs.

911
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,920
They're out there.

912
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:36,920
Yeah.

913
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,960
Looking for kangaroos, I can send it to Noel.

914
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:39,960
That's the one.

915
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:40,960
In the wild.

916
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:41,960
That's the one.

917
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,960
Yeah.

918
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,320
So it's like, but I think the conclusion from this though is like, there was a lot of stuff

919
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:55,000
where it just felt like literally the daily stupidity and degeneracy that we call our

920
00:44:55,000 --> 00:45:03,320
lives now is quite a long way ahead of where people outside of the space think the space

921
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:04,320
is.

922
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:05,320
Better or worse.

923
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:06,320
I don't know.

924
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:11,160
I honestly don't know, but it was one of those in the break I was talking to somebody and

925
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,320
they were like, oh, what are you researching?

926
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,240
I was like, oh, I'm actually just kind of came along to have a look like I'm maybe working

927
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,840
the Cosmos ecosystem and they're like, oh, what's that?

928
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:26,440
I'm like, it's pretty fucking small market cap compared to Ethereum, but some funny things

929
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:27,440
have happened.

930
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,520
And they were like, well, yeah, but everything's presumed to be really small fry.

931
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:36,000
And I was like, I don't know, man, we had a governance dispute over $120 million last

932
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,400
year, which was resolved with a smart contract.

933
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,400
And they were like $120 million.

934
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,400
I was like, something like that.

935
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,400
I didn't represent it.

936
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,000
It was all a bit of a blur because it was quite stressful as you can imagine.

937
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,000
And they were like, really?

938
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:55,320
And I was like, yeah, I mean, this is like this, this stuff seems to happen all the time.

939
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:56,320
We just burned it.

940
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:57,320
What are you doing?

941
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,720
Last year, we just, we let it on fire in front of their eyes.

942
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:01,720
It was just fucking busy.

943
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:03,840
They were just said, fuck you.

944
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:04,840
That was it.

945
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:05,840
Exactly.

946
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,600
Like, and they were just like, oh, funny.

947
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:09,600
I didn't hear about that.

948
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,440
No, you didn't, I mean, you could have done it.

949
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:15,440
It was on coin desk.

950
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:20,000
We got a very bad write up as I recall for the whole experience.

951
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,480
I think my attorney's had a blog post on it.

952
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,760
Do you know what it's like at the risk of being like in knows the legal, the legal advice

953
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:35,280
podcast, our lawyers, our lawyers sent us a quite interesting article on the legal status

954
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,120
of dowels in the United Kingdom the other day because obviously they helped us with

955
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,320
some of the thinking around the how down whatnot.

956
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:49,920
And there has recently actually been a consultation with businesses on their opinions on essentially

957
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,680
what how dowel should be treated moving forward.

958
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:59,520
And they're starting to publish some like preliminary information on how dowels will

959
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,320
be sort of treated moving forward.

960
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,120
And yeah, it's kind of interesting.

961
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:06,440
I don't think they've got it right.

962
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,600
Of course, nothing's ever going to be.

963
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:16,920
But are people required to like periodically ask, is this a down?

964
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:21,320
That is actually the first line in the recommendation position piece.

965
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,360
It's it has the mean.

966
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:25,360
Is this a down?

967
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:31,800
Yeah, this says this is this has been contributed by an industry partner on Voilaab's have contributed

968
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,720
this to our consultation.

969
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:36,600
Yeah, no, sadly not.

970
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:42,840
But yeah, I think the thing that like the thing that I guess came out of that was just

971
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:49,440
the the extent to which like, you know, going back to even the academics, right, who are

972
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:54,240
I guess presumably thinking about this stuff a lot.

973
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:58,840
Either they're very, very deep in the deep on one thing, or they are still quite like

974
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,320
a high level of like, oh, hypotheticals of what you can do with this thing.

975
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:03,320
Right.

976
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,640
And there's like they were talking about use case where they're like, oh, maybe in two

977
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,160
years, we'll see something, something, something.

978
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,080
And I just was thinking, you could write that in Cosmos in a weekend.

979
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,320
It's like, if you wanted to, it's just there's no money in it.

980
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,560
So why would you do that?

981
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,000
This idea that you've come up with, we've already shit down the drain because it makes

982
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,000
nothing.

983
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,000
Yeah, exactly.

984
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,000
Keep going.

985
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:23,360
Like we've already we're past that.

986
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,360
We've already realized that that makes nothing.

987
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:26,360
So keep going.

988
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:34,040
Yeah, we're already at a point where you can design, develop and deploy a an economic system

989
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,040
in a weekend.

990
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,040
Right.

991
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,640
If you want to, it's just that your idea is bad.

992
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,200
That's why nobody's done it.

993
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,680
And in fact, actually, somebody probably already has done it in Cosmos and you just don't know

994
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:55,360
about it because you guys are all looking at Ethereum because you actually don't know

995
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,440
all that much about the crypto space.

996
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,440
And to be fair, like, look, we don't know everything that happens in the Cosmos.

997
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,000
Like we can't keep track of everything that happens in the Cosmos.

998
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:10,840
But as a validator company, we're only in two hecos and I already find it exhausting to

999
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,600
keep track of what's happening in each one.

1000
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,360
So I understand.

1001
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:21,400
But it does remind me, I guess, of how I think we just sort of take it for granted.

1002
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,320
We just like, oh, this is just what life is like.

1003
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,360
All this insane bullshit all the time.

1004
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,680
And it's just like, hey, this is normal.

1005
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:32,680
And then you take a step back and you look at people whose job is to analyze things professionally

1006
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:38,600
and write like a measured take on what is actually happening for consumption by people

1007
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:39,800
in 50 years time.

1008
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,680
And you're like, yeah, okay.

1009
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:43,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1010
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,480
We are A, super early and B, this stuff is super insane.

1011
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:48,480
Like it's

1012
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,800
That's some quality analysis.

1013
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:52,800
Yeah.

1014
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:58,920
I mean, like you don't need to go to an academic conference to be like, we're early and this

1015
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,160
stuff is mental, obviously.

1016
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,640
It's kind of a given.

1017
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,680
But like, you know, again, like the visibly the person doing the Dow stuff was actually

1018
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:08,680
calling it.

1019
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,800
I would have been like, hey, do you know Dow?

1020
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,160
Because there's like payroll stuff coming in 2.1.

1021
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,760
Like in two weeks time, you should just like check it out.

1022
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:18,760
Oh my God.

1023
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,040
You just like look at what's wallet to doing it.

1024
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,040
Yeah.

1025
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,040
I don't know.

1026
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:27,320
Hey, so related unrelated.

1027
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,040
Dow, Dow v2 has launched 2.1.

1028
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,800
2.1, yeah, sorry, 2.1.

1029
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,480
The Dow has been like upgraded to that.

1030
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:42,320
So, you know, if you run it down, go ahead and fucking YOLO.

1031
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:43,320
That's awesome.

1032
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,960
I heard in the actually, you know, you what?

1033
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:48,960
Yeah.

1034
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:54,400
So partial max is that in the chat, the paper on how early we are will be released too late.

1035
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:59,680
I believe I actually submitted it.

1036
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:05,120
An abstract brief for the 2025 edition of the Journal of the British Blockchain Association

1037
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,240
for We Are Early, a study in earlyness.

1038
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:10,880
And we'll see how it goes.

1039
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:11,880
They didn't seem to like it.

1040
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:12,880
I don't know.

1041
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:13,880
A study in earlyness.

1042
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:14,880
A study in earlyness.

1043
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,720
The great thing about the great thing about the great thing about the great thing about

1044
00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:22,560
the great comedy writer, if I was, I would be here.

1045
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,680
The great news about being too early is things like Dow, Dow get overlooked because in four

1046
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:31,000
years from now, somebody releases on a different chain, one tenth of the functionality that

1047
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:37,560
exists today and totally goes blows up because it was the right release at the right time.

1048
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,000
And it was the right, right?

1049
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,360
Like those things have to align for that success to happen.

1050
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,520
Well, there's that saying, isn't there?

1051
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:50,480
Like there's nothing more frustrating than being, the being, was it than being five minutes

1052
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,960
too late or being a year too late other than being five years too early, something like

1053
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:55,960
that.

1054
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:56,960
That's something I don't know.

1055
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:02,200
Somebody might know the exact quote I've probably butchered at, but yeah, it's kind

1056
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,000
of unfair at this point.

1057
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:10,960
So also unrelated related.

1058
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:19,080
We're getting requests for the stickers, you surfer, from the waggy.

1059
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:25,480
Yeah, I think, I mean, we have a ton.

1060
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,360
And we have them on like three or four continents, right?

1061
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:29,360
Like we're pretty good.

1062
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:35,960
If people, if people want them in Europe, just don't do that.

1063
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:37,680
Just send, don't do that.

1064
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:42,240
Send an email to like, I want to fucking sticker at bigballsblockchain.com and we'll figure

1065
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:51,080
it out and we will make it happen with your address and, and yeah, I'm in the mnemonic

1066
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:52,080
exactly.

1067
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:57,320
So we'll send you, we'll make it happen.

1068
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:58,320
We will make it happen.

1069
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,680
We have, we have tons of good stickers and, and we haven't talked about merch for a long

1070
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:02,680
time.

1071
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:03,680
We should actually come up with something.

1072
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:08,240
I feel like, I've said before, I've said before I'll say it again, the baby grow has

1073
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:09,240
been a staple.

1074
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:12,600
It's a really good site if you have an underweight baby.

1075
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,520
For people in the US that's a onesie.

1076
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,440
If you have an underweight baby.

1077
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:22,960
If you had, if you had a normal baby, you could just, I mean, it's, to be fair, it looks

1078
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,760
like it's scaling with the child.

1079
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:29,480
Like if you had an under, an overweight baby, you could use it for socks.

1080
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,160
He's no longer underweight, but it still fits.

1081
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,600
It's just, it was one of the only ones that did fit when he was underweight.

1082
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:36,600
I love it.

1083
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:41,120
So as the, as the babies developed the thickness.

1084
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:42,120
Yeah.

1085
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,240
They get really chunky quite quickly.

1086
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:46,600
Would be my review.

1087
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,760
My review of babies.

1088
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:54,400
7 out of 10 would baby again.

1089
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:55,400
I don't know.

1090
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:56,400
I only really do.

1091
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,640
My review of babies get chunky real quick.

1092
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:00,800
Get chunky.

1093
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,800
Chunky than you think.

1094
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,960
Chunky than you think.

1095
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:11,360
You get a bit more sleep than you think, but the, the grind of not quite getting enough

1096
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:12,960
sleep is very long.

1097
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:14,920
Yeah, it's, it's fun.

1098
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:15,920
Like the first month, right?

1099
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,680
And you're like, holy shit, this isn't going to go out.

1100
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:18,680
This is life now.

1101
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:20,160
This is just life now.

1102
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:21,640
When did I sleep to the night?

1103
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:22,640
Yeah.

1104
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:23,640
You kind of just like, oh yeah.

1105
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,400
Like the thing that really gets me is like, you keep talking to people and you're just

1106
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,320
like, yeah, you know, you know, four weeks, five weeks, whatever the number keeps going

1107
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,080
up and they're just, and you're just like, yeah, some point though.

1108
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,320
And people are just like, not really.

1109
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,040
You're like, excellent.

1110
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,960
No, no, no, no, no, no.

1111
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:41,360
Listen, sleep training.

1112
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,720
Like we were, we were ridiculously structured on sleep training.

1113
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:45,720
That was really my wife.

1114
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:48,440
So we were, and sleep training is a real thing.

1115
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,600
Like that term, like look it up and like, like people have a lot of different.

1116
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:52,600
There's a lot of different.

1117
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,600
I've, I've, I've, I've, or believe me, I've read a book now.

1118
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:55,600
It's a real thing.

1119
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:56,600
Like the shit needs to happen.

1120
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:57,600
You have to train.

1121
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:58,600
Seconds you can.

1122
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,120
Like you think like kids like realize how to sleep.

1123
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,320
They don't like you really need to be able to do that.

1124
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:03,320
And he's still young.

1125
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:04,320
It doesn't matter.

1126
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,400
It's, this is later, but later, cause they'll like move forward and they'll regress, right?

1127
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:08,720
Cause it's like, oh, we're past this.

1128
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:09,720
They can sleep for five hours.

1129
00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:13,120
And the next thing you know, you have like three weeks of like, every two hours just

1130
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,600
to piss you off, right?

1131
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,600
So there's, there's at some point.

1132
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:18,600
Last night.

1133
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:19,600
Yeah.

1134
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,600
You're going to have good nights, bad nights.

1135
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,600
Hey, hey, how's it going everybody?

1136
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,160
I'm just going to let you know I'm still here.

1137
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,640
Like were you getting comfortable?

1138
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:33,200
Do you know what the funny thing is for you is that you look decidedly less fucked right

1139
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:40,000
now than what you have during like several other like blockchain related events.

1140
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,760
But I think it's because there is a bunch of stuff where essentially as soon as the

1141
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,880
baby arrived, I had to just be like, I can't do this anymore.

1142
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:57,080
I'm not going to do it anymore because it's fucking, you know, there's, there's, I don't

1143
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:58,320
know how to explain it.

1144
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,040
I don't have to explain it really.

1145
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,520
I'm just, I'm a genius.

1146
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:06,680
You're fucking one because you'll never see me again.

1147
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,720
It's basically just that.

1148
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:15,280
Like, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you're just like, I can only

1149
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,040
do what I can do, man.

1150
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,800
And I'm not going to do, do that other shit anymore.

1151
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,400
So I'm just going to try and take it a bit easier.

1152
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:23,400
Yes.

1153
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:24,400
Yes.

1154
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:25,400
Yes.

1155
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:26,400
Yes.

1156
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:27,400
Yes.

1157
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:28,400
Yes.

1158
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:29,400
Yes.

1159
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:30,400
Yes.

1160
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:31,400
Yes.

1161
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:32,400
Yes.

1162
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:33,400
Yes.

1163
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:34,400
Yes.

1164
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,740
It makes, it basically calls like a break in the timeline or something like that.

1165
00:56:37,740 --> 00:56:40,120
So you, sir, but has to then go and edit.

1166
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,280
It's like back in the fucking thing that we just did.

1167
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,560
I have five, five minutes left with my children every time that you hit that button.

1168
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:47,560
Yeah.

1169
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:53,080
So the fact that I kept hitting the, the, the tombstone button earlier was very welcome,

1170
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,560
like a hundred percent welcome in the grand scheme of things.

1171
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,560
Um, I feel bad about that now.

1172
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:00,560
I'm sorry, man.

1173
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:01,560
That was not cool.

1174
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:02,560
It's all good.

1175
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:03,560
Um, so.

1176
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:05,560
I feel bad at all.

1177
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:06,560
Fuck your time.

1178
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:07,560
No regrets.

1179
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:08,560
Nothing.

1180
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:10,560
That's, that's the Australian way.

1181
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:12,560
That's the Australian way.

1182
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,560
Um, I mean, to be fair, it's probably actually the British way as well, isn't it?

1183
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:17,560
Let's be honest.

1184
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:21,560
It's just like, we actually regret nothing, but we just sort of pretend we just like,

1185
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,560
sort of, it's just like a, a sense of melancholy.

1186
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:30,560
You sent people on a boat to a different continent for stealing bread.

1187
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:31,560
You are so.

1188
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,560
Is that what it was?

1189
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:35,560
Yeah.

1190
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,560
And she, like, you know, sheet brush laying stuff like that.

1191
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:39,560
It was.

1192
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:40,560
Stealing bread.

1193
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:41,560
It's pretty bad.

1194
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:43,560
Or like, you know, looking at.

1195
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:44,560
And high fight.

1196
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:45,560
Probably call.

1197
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:47,560
Cantus, Rome, or whatever.

1198
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:48,560
Yeah.

1199
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:49,560
I mean, look.

1200
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,560
Look, I'm still alive at bread.

1201
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,560
Get the fucking, get a plot.

1202
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,560
I'm not an academic of that period of British history.

1203
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:00,560
So I couldn't tell you exactly what the many pressures were that led to the, the

1204
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,560
conclusion that those were good policies.

1205
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:07,560
But if I had to put my finger in the air, I would imagine it is the, you know,

1206
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:12,560
perpetuation of the same rule in class that took control of the country in 1066,

1207
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:16,560
essentially, and wish to perpetuate their rule forever.

1208
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,560
Historians of, historians of English history.

1209
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:20,560
Prove me wrong.

1210
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:21,560
Anyway.

1211
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,560
Historians of English history.

1212
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,560
It's, yeah, whatever.

1213
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,560
Welcome to Game of Thrones, a weekly podcast on land rights and land use in the

1214
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:35,560
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland presented to you by

1215
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,560
independent validator teams.

1216
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:39,560
And class warriors.

1217
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:40,560
Shit.

1218
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:45,560
What, but there isn't, there is an interesting sense, right?

1219
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,560
Which America, there's a lot of land to go around, right?

1220
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,560
And you have a lot of problems.

1221
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:51,560
You have a lot of problems.

1222
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:55,560
And, you know, you did, you did fuck the Native Americans out of the good land.

1223
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,560
That was a thing.

1224
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:04,560
But there is like this sense in which you can still just like, get usable land to do stuff on.

1225
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,560
Whereas like in the UK, there's so little land that it still is the case that if you own the land,

1226
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:12,560
you just in a very real sense, just own what's going on.

1227
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,560
Like the biggest landowners are still the aristocracy.

1228
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,560
It's just like astonishing to me.

1229
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:21,560
It's like this big thing we just don't really talk about how like land rights.

1230
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:23,560
Well, I mean, maybe we do talk about it.

1231
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:24,560
I feel like we don't.

1232
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:30,560
We just don't talk about how like we're just still the same country we've been for like 500 years because

1233
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:37,560
every time there's a change in like the wind, the people who have always been in charge,

1234
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,560
just grandfather and the new people and just continue as before.

1235
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,560
And maybe that's the same in every political system.

1236
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,560
I guess there's never only ever, there's never a revolution really, only evolution.

1237
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:50,560
Unless you're the French, Nugility and everybody, which got to say,

1238
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,560
it might be the move.

1239
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,560
Maybe that's the universe brain move.

1240
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,560
I mean, like you've got to hand this to the Bolsheviks, right?

1241
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:02,560
They got the SAR, they were like, our position is tenuous.

1242
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,560
Maybe we're going to be in a position where we want to trade them back.

1243
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,560
We might, you know, there might be some political deal, which means they're taken back or whatever.

1244
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:12,560
I'll just shot them.

1245
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:14,560
Just take that shit off the table.

1246
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,560
Just end the bloodline.

1247
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,560
You know, it's pretty beautiful.

1248
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:24,560
I mean, it's probably makes a lot of sense.

1249
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,560
I mean, they used to be the way, right?

1250
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:27,560
You wanted to stop a bloodline.

1251
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:29,560
You just fucking kill everyone.

1252
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:30,560
You stopped it.

1253
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:34,560
Yeah, I think that's maybe in my head a little bit because I rewatched June at the weekend.

1254
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,560
You rewatched June because the new one's coming out soon?

1255
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:46,560
Partly the reason, but also because I watched like a short documentary on how they did the sound design for it and like the various techniques and stuff.

1256
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:47,560
And it was very interesting.

1257
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,560
And I was just like, it was a really good soundtrack.

1258
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:51,560
I want to hear it again.

1259
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,560
So watch the film and it kind of reminded me like that.

1260
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,560
That's the most bizarre reason I've ever heard for rewatching a film.

1261
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:02,560
So something about the fucking film track, a bit of a bit of a watch that just to verify.

1262
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,560
It's a great soundtrack.

1263
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,560
I like don't trust verify.

1264
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:08,560
Literally a music journalist.

1265
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:09,560
Of course I like music.

1266
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:10,560
Of course I like soundtracks.

1267
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,560
Anyway, whatever.

1268
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:31,560
The point is the thing that struck me on this rewatch is how like the when the when the Harkinons spoilers, when the Harkinons come in and fuck everything up, how it literally is like that is exactly how the destruction of a royal house in say like European antiquity would have been.

1269
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:40,560
You know, it's just like, I know you lost so everything's fucked now we're going to kill all the peasants we can kill all your soldiers we can kill all your retainers we're going to burn down everything.

1270
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,560
Those really expensive trees you had we're going to burn them down.

1271
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:47,560
We actually quite like those trees but we're going to burn them down anyway just had a fucking principle.

1272
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,560
And you're like, oh gosh, it seems a bit severe.

1273
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:58,560
And then you're like, yeah, the Romans like salted the earth at at at Carthage after the Second Punic War, right?

1274
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:03,560
Okay, so for those for those I've just obviously just stopped them in kind of.

1275
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:12,560
Yeah, so for those again listening listening later, Ben Davis, the comment was, this is dangerously like the master and commander shit.

1276
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,560
Well played you.

1277
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:25,560
Which which play comes the first the first six months of game of the year how long ago that was working that was like six months ago but it was a long time ago.

1278
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:39,560
We've had a lot of episodes this podcast now you somebody is going to be an academic is going to be an academic tracking the social history of the blockchain and blockchain ecosystem in cosmos via the medium of the podcast game and nose.

1279
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:49,560
It's going to come full circle my friend they're going to find this episode and they're going to go, oh, that's a bit of a shame they're being nasty about people like me and until all this coming out of that study.

1280
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:56,560
The only thing that'll come out of that study is the definitive list of two stones.

1281
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:59,560
I mean that would be a great paper to be fair.

1282
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:11,560
The only cause most piece we've had in this to be fair to that researcher and if you are listening in the future, we have no problem with academic obviously you are as far as I can tell, lovely, lovely people.

1283
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:23,560
Sorry if there was any indication contrary to the contrary during this podcast. It's been a long winter and we don't just mean the crypto winter it's been a long cold dark winter.

1284
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,560
More generally in the northern hemisphere.

1285
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:28,560
Gosh, it has.

1286
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,560
Oh my goodness.

1287
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:34,560
Thank goodness where we're nearly in April when it finally starts to get a bit light.

1288
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:39,560
You know, I'm going to go I'm going to go from winter in the States to winter in Australia.

1289
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:41,560
You are. Yeah.

1290
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:45,560
Although it looks like winter for like the last fucking year.

1291
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:50,560
Mate, no, your winter is not like the winter in the north of England.

1292
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,560
The winter that's behind you is sunshine.

1293
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,560
Right. We don't get fucking sunshine.

1294
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:02,560
This is the only fucking sunshine I have seen in like nine months.

1295
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:03,560
Get out of here.

1296
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:07,560
Nine months. You live in Australia. That is not plausible or correct.

1297
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:21,560
We can literally if we had enough viewers, if we were like one of those, you know, those big gamer channels with like loads and loads of views on YouTube, I'd be like, I mean, guys, go back and clip, go back and clip a clip of when Noel was in the sunshine from the last year.

1298
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:28,560
Go show me and people would just like sending hundreds of clips on YouTube shorts mocking you.

1299
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,560
Laughing at you.

1300
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,560
What an asshole. He's been in the sun the whole year.

1301
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:35,560
What an asshole. Yeah.

1302
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,560
Yeah. Some people, yeah. I mean, to be fair, compared, we don't need any part of that.

1303
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:45,560
The drama associated with those YouTubers seems to be like, although a lot of it they do bring on themselves as far as I can tell.

1304
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:46,560
I'm not an expert on it.

1305
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,560
I think that's what drives listeners, right?

1306
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:50,560
It's what kind of like it's built around that.

1307
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:59,560
Yeah. I follow, I vaguely followed like a hitman speed runner niche you would think, but quite with quite a lot of followers.

1308
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:05,560
And I, you know, I haven't obviously had the time in the last six months really to watch any shit.

1309
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:16,560
And so I just saw their name came up the other day and it was of course, it like a scandal, like a cancel gate type thing where they had been doing a stream and they just like flick between tabs and then which is like, it was like,

1310
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:34,560
it was something really actually quite really bad, like super unpleasant. It was like AI generated porn of colleague streamers or something like, yeah, it was like, it was like really actually like, you know, massive breach of trust, bad stuff.

1311
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:39,560
And I was like, oh gosh, stop paying attention to the internet for five minutes.

1312
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:50,560
Yeah, it's like, well, I guess, I guess I won't be enjoying that content when I finally get a chance to watch YouTube again whenever that is.

1313
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:57,560
Ben, Ben Davis with the only comments in the last half an hour. The chain halt helped with your viewership.

1314
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:02,560
I think our biggest, our biggest episode by viewers was the Gino.

1315
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:15,560
The restart. No, it was the restart. Which never happened. It was just the circle. Which ironically, it was a rug ball, wasn't it? Because we promised a chain gets revived or your money back.

1316
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:19,560
And no chain was revived. And a lot of money was returned.

1317
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:26,560
A lot of money, as I recall. It was very financially brueness for the whole endeavor.

1318
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:33,560
That was the one where we just pulled up all of the Dow Dow lot in Portland, wasn't it? They were just all in a big house, hanging out.

1319
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:37,560
They just randomly joined throughout the whole thing.

1320
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:39,560
Was that in Portland?

1321
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:45,560
I think so. I would have thought it would have been in like San Fran or something.

1322
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,560
You know what? There is something a little bit like, this is crazy, right?

1323
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:56,560
I feel like genuinely, the period of time that Gino, for example, or any of the main cosmos chains, because for me, Gino and Stargate, they're launching the same month.

1324
01:06:56,560 --> 01:07:03,560
So it's all a bit jumbled for me. But I genuinely feel like it's only been less than two years and it feels like a thousand.

1325
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,560
It does feel like five or six years of my life.

1326
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:17,560
The compaction of time. It's like general relativity. The closer you get to the speed of light, as soon as you drop out from that, you're like, oh, a hundred years have passed.

1327
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,560
I do feel like there's an element of that.

1328
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:29,560
I was thinking about the number of people that have joined and exited the project or validators or applications or anything like that.

1329
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:35,560
They're not even around anymore. It's like pretty crazy.

1330
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:42,560
It's been that much of a, well, maybe in Juneau, but it doesn't seem like it's been that much of a flux in Juneau.

1331
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:58,560
Yeah, I guess it depends which contingent of people you mean, maybe not validators so much as like there's all the people who I guess I talked to on a daily basis or worked with, maybe over the past couple of years, who just in some cases are not even in crypto anymore.

1332
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:03,560
Be that from market pressures, be that from other things, be that things going wrong.

1333
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:05,560
Can't blame for that.

1334
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:15,560
Yeah, I know. It does feel like a long time on a lot of churn whenever I reflect on that.

1335
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:20,560
Are there any comments on the old AIB?

1336
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:26,560
I don't really know the whole story there. It's not like they were, so the way I understand it, which I don't, you know.

1337
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:37,560
Well, say for first, Ben Davis asked, care to risk a hot take on AIB bridging a lawsuit against an ex employee who wanted to work on a fork.

1338
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:41,560
I don't know the details, so I don't know if that's 100% correct, but anyone can.

1339
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:48,560
So as I understand it, the, so, okay, allow me to choose my words very carefully.

1340
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:53,560
As I understand it, allegedly,

1341
01:08:53,560 --> 01:09:07,560
AIB has brought a lawsuit in New York against the former employee who first made a Twitter post about

1342
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:16,560
Denise Fedyev's desire to work on something that he was not technically allowed to his contract, although it was open source.

1343
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:25,560
But he was not technically allowed to fork it and work on it as a result of his previous employment contract with AIB.

1344
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,560
Meaning he was a full-time employee or an employee under contract.

1345
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:34,560
He was an ex employee, I think, but still bound by the same employment contract.

1346
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,560
Oh, so he had a not computer, some sort of structure.

1347
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:44,560
Yeah, something like that. So he had, I think he had asked to say, to work on the open source software.

1348
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:47,560
But he was not, are you sure he's not, he was not an employee?

1349
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:50,560
I don't think he was an employee anymore. No.

1350
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:58,560
But like, you know, you quite often have, it's very, very common for corporate contracting, you have a six or 12 month non-compete on any clause you sign.

1351
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:00,560
They're not enforceable.

1352
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:07,560
Yeah, I mean, they're not particularly enforceable in the UK either, but you have to sign them. You sign it, you move on.

1353
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:12,560
Anyway, what the thing is, nobody ever tries to enforce them, that's the thing, like literally nobody ever does.

1354
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:15,560
Oh, I got sued for that. I mean, yeah, absolutely.

1355
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,560
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They can try to be enforceable.

1356
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:27,560
I mean, here in the US, it might be different elsewhere, but the core of it is you cannot stop someone from trying to earn to provide for him, him or herself or their family.

1357
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:38,560
So as long as it's not, if you're creating competition, as long as you're not stealing IP, as long as you are, if you are creating a more competitive environment,

1358
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:46,560
and you are learning what you learned at company A to go create or start or even go to company B to create competition,

1359
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:50,560
there's no court here that would stop to do that unless you're stealing things.

1360
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:58,560
If you're stealing IP and you're saying, hey, I'm taking this and I'm going to go somewhere else, I'm going to go recreate this with this kind of like, intellectual property,

1361
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,560
that absolutely, you can absolutely get sued. I mean, you can look at, there's tons of fucking cases.

1362
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:04,560
Yeah, I could imagine that that would be the case.

1363
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,560
Yeah, yeah, like, or if you're stealing customers, the other thing is, well, two things.

1364
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:14,560
One is if you steal customers, like, I have a good relationship with customer A, I'm going to go to company B, I'm going to go recruit this customer.

1365
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:21,560
The courts do not like that because then you're taking money out, you're taking basically food out of somebody else's mouth because of a relationship that that's not cool.

1366
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:25,560
And the other thing is stealing employees. Employees are incredibly hard to hold on to.

1367
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:31,560
And so if you are like underhand in recruiting somebody, that is also something that you could say, that is very easy.

1368
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:35,560
But if you say, hey, I learned this stuff at company A, I'm going to go start my own thing or I'm going to company B,

1369
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:40,560
I'm going to use what I learned and go compete against company A, nobody will go against that.

1370
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:41,560
Like that is, that is.

1371
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,560
Yeah, that's kind of my understanding here as well.

1372
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:57,560
Like if you, if you literally you contract with a company via say a third party and then you cease working for the third party and then you approach the other company to a contract, that is very much enforceable.

1373
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:06,560
Anything other than that kind of level of like directly, I'm going to stop working for you and go to them directly is essentially unenforceable.

1374
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:12,560
This is my understanding because it's just like your normal business practice is almost it's, you know, not taking the piss.

1375
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:16,560
I believe is the legal term.

1376
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:20,560
But yeah, in this, in this case.

1377
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:27,560
And if the source is open source meaning like an organization has said, hey, we are giving this back.

1378
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:38,560
And I'm not sure what license sets under, but assuming that company be wherever this person is left to and they're not, they're not violating the agreement of how they are utilizing that source.

1379
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:42,560
I'm not sure what, what argument is here other than it less.

1380
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:54,560
There's other intellectual property that that person is taking to say, hey, this is something I learned that is uniquely covered under IP, whether that be customers or whether that be something else that can be enforceable in some sort of way.

1381
01:12:54,560 --> 01:13:00,560
But so I didn't really, I mean, AIB's approach and like, hey, you know, we got to stand up and everything else.

1382
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:06,560
I mean, I mean, honestly, usually you would not go public with that type of thing.

1383
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:11,560
Like if you're going to sue an ex employee because the dickers an issue there, you're not like going to Twitter with it.

1384
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:12,560
I don't know.

1385
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:17,560
Yeah, as I suspected, it's Apache Apache 2.0 is the license.

1386
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:19,560
Okay, so stop what ignite.

1387
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:23,560
It just means they, what does that mean they can't they can't take that source and they can't resell it right. That's basically what it is.

1388
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:24,560
They can't.

1389
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:33,560
I think you can resell it commercially as much as you like. I think you just have to reprint the same license.

1390
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:38,560
I think that's what it is for that whatever you create, whatever you create off that has to be public.

1391
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:43,560
And then you can do one, right? I think. And then somebody else can fork you and do whatever, right? Like it's basically the idea.

1392
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:51,560
Yeah, so the Apache license is a permissive free software license written by the Apache software foundation.

1393
01:13:51,560 --> 01:14:04,560
It allows the users to use the software for any purpose to distribute it, modify it, distribute it, modify versions of the software under any terms of the license without concern for royalties.

1394
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:11,560
It does not require derivative works to be distributed using the same license.

1395
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:24,560
It requires application of the same license to all modified parts in every license file original copyright patent trademark and attribution notices must be preserved.

1396
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:36,560
If a notice file is included as any part of a distribution of the original work, a derivative works must include a readable copy of those notices within a notice file.

1397
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:42,560
But these do not modify the license.

1398
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:58,560
And there can be no patent litigation after the fact unless explicitly splated off otherwise any contribution is submitted by a licensee to a licensee will be under the terms of the license without any terms conditions.

1399
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:01,560
Yeah. So, yeah, essentially.

1400
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:12,560
Yeah, it's just it's a relatively straightforward open source license with some sensible guard rails around it that is over and above the MIT license.

1401
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:20,560
But you might think about it as like, for the purposes of can you make it commercial? Can you work on it? Is it permissive?

1402
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:26,560
Yeah, it doesn't seem to be hugely different from something as permissive as the MIT license would be.

1403
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:37,560
Right. And I know a b also talked about some sort of like disparagement or something else against against themselves or whatever else like the definition was the thing that they were that that's a real concern.

1404
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:50,560
And if they if they think that like whatever is being said is is number one, if they can prove that it's untruthful and they can approve that it's actually and they can claim some sort of damage associated that me which I think we really definitely difficult and Web three but whatever.

1405
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:58,560
But if you're if you're proving to say, hey, we you know, this is our growth in terms of stakers and we have XYZ and it's going lower than that. And so therefore you're costing us money.

1406
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:11,560
Like that's a real that's a real, it's a real number and a court might hear that but I think getting to that point is, you know, that seems like a kind of stretch you get to a point where you get a jury to understand what the fuck is going on here.

1407
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:21,560
I think I think importantly, like one of the one of the notes is that it was not taken like very well by the community, I guess.

1408
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:23,560
Doesn't matter in general.

1409
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:32,560
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's interesting like to watch the the whole saga play out over time.

1410
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:41,560
And yeah, I mean, it's just they don't seem to have like a lot of support at all in across like the community.

1411
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,560
I mean, again, that doesn't that doesn't really matter.

1412
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:51,560
Like the in the court of law, it doesn't matter, but it's interesting to watch from like as a bystander perspective.

1413
01:16:51,560 --> 01:17:01,560
Yeah, I think it like a personal take would be like if someone wants to kind of bait me into like obviously this I don't have any, you know, I think it would be like,

1414
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:04,560
you should just kind of let devs work on open source software.

1415
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,560
That's obviously my opinion like it.

1416
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:19,560
It's kind of no skin off my nose approach, you know, like the barb you know the Barbara Streisand effect thing, you know, where you try and bury them the evidence of the big mansion and everybody just posts pictures of it on the internet.

1417
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:34,560
Like it's not like I'm obviously not like one of the things about British law I like the least is defamation law because it's primarily designed to protect the interests of moneyed upper class who have more money than anybody else.

1418
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:43,560
And like this seems like, you know, any big company obviously has more money and more resources and more lawyers than any individual employee.

1419
01:17:43,560 --> 01:18:06,560
This is why we have unions, right, but this is the extent to which AIB must have more money than anybody that could stand up to them is probably disproportionate to a ridiculous degree like even if you had a union, even if you had some other body that you could sort of look to for arbitration, I doubt that they could stand up to anything that could be thrown at you.

1420
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:17,560
So it is like really something where it's so uneven always is going to stick in your craw, I think is the is the first observation.

1421
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:23,560
You know, without really taking a side on it, I just think like whenever it's just somebody punching down, it's just a bad look.

1422
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:25,560
It's just my opinion.

1423
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,560
Not opinion of our company, not opinion of anything else, certainly not opinion.

1424
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:31,560
You know, that's just a personal observation.

1425
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,560
I think punching down generally looks bad.

1426
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:41,560
And, you know, the second thing is just we're trying to get people to come and build in this ecosystem.

1427
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:49,560
And what we've what you see time and time again is that like specifics of an issue don't tend to matter so much as the optics of an issue.

1428
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:53,560
And the optics of this issue.

1429
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,560
And this is again, this is not my personal issue.

1430
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,560
This is what other people have said to me.

1431
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:02,560
This is what people have said because people have asked us to talk about this on Game of Nodes and I was a bit like.

1432
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:08,560
But like the overall impression I think that people have by and by could be wrong.

1433
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:17,560
This is just the take that I've been given by other people is that this is basically an organization that is supposed to be a leader in the cosmos suing a dev.

1434
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:20,560
Yeah, I mean, this is also a bear market issue, right?

1435
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:26,560
If the bull is going on and they're making a shitload of fucking money and all this type of stuff, I think that they kind of let the slide or they find it.

1436
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:28,560
Do it in a way that's not as so as visible or something.

1437
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:39,560
But I agree like this, it's it's a bit petty for an organization and in the real real question of how much actual damages are they feeling because of this.

1438
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:41,560
I think it's probably more in marketing terms.

1439
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,560
It's not necessarily in terms of.

1440
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:46,560
I think the damages they're looking for is like $150,000.

1441
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:48,560
I'm like, you would even bother.

1442
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:53,560
You're doing more reputational damage by chasing this lawsuit than anything that happened before.

1443
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:59,560
Like, why would you look at their one tweet was like more fucking reputational damage than easily.

1444
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:03,560
Yeah, like the outfall of them fucking doing workers.

1445
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:04,560
Right.

1446
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:05,560
Allegedly or whatever.

1447
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:06,560
You know, totally agree.

1448
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,560
Like, whatever, allegedly and stuff.

1449
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:18,560
Like there has to be an I mean, like any any any at any sort of legal movement, you have to look at it and say, what is the ROI and this type of structure?

1450
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:19,560
Right.

1451
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:20,560
Like, are we really making anything?

1452
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:21,560
And anyway,

1453
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:29,560
Can I just observe to the listeners is why you separate is like, Loki, the smartest guy here is that we're all just like, oh, this is a complicated issue.

1454
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:32,560
It's like, but what is the ROI of this legal move?

1455
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:41,560
But if you've been in the cosmos for if you've been in the cosmos for 10 fucking minutes, right, you would know this is not the right move.

1456
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:42,560
Right.

1457
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:44,560
Like you would look at it and say, what's the ROI on?

1458
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,560
Like, are we actually so what are we making a statement?

1459
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:54,560
We're going to we're going to increase our our worth because of getting the community all fucking pissed of us about suing in this type of situation.

1460
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:57,560
Or you just say, let's just see if we can go to arbitration.

1461
01:20:57,560 --> 01:21:04,560
Let's see if we can maybe make some some things to say that this is not go forward if they really feel there's damages here.

1462
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:05,560
But they go after $150,000.

1463
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:07,560
Like, what are you doing?

1464
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:10,560
Like that doesn't make any sense, especially at there at that size, right?

1465
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:11,560
It's nuts.

1466
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:15,560
Like that's, I think that's probably it's like, it's like life ruining money to the dev.

1467
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:21,560
And it's like, it's just to a large organization like them.

1468
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:24,560
So it's just again, it's back to the punching down thing.

1469
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:41,560
You're just like, what are you, what are you trying to achieve other than other than, you know, literally on this podcast, you know, all three of us are looking at that being like, I don't want to pay $150,000 because somebody decides they don't like my opinion on the internet, which is fucking ridiculous.

1470
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:47,560
That is literally the death. You know what that is? That is just my opinion, but it's childish.

1471
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:48,560
Yeah, it's what it is.

1472
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:55,560
It comes off as childish and it is toxic to attracting devs to the ecosystem, which given that the SDK.

1473
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:59,560
I go on about it is not an ergonomic product at the moment.

1474
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:09,560
And obviously there are some very, very clever, very, very smart, very, very determined people who are currently working on modularizing it and doing lots of things that are going to make it more accessible for devs.

1475
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:17,560
And you know, that's coming in SDK 46 SDK 47 SDK 48, you know, I'm kind of wired into some of those conversations.

1476
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:23,560
And like I do appreciate there is some determined efforts to make the stuff more approachable to new developers.

1477
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:29,560
But you also need a pipeline of new developers to stick the course and actually see that to the end.

1478
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:30,560
Yeah.

1479
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:36,560
And you just you just look at this and you're just like, why bother there are people in other near will throw money at you to come in their ecosystem.

1480
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:37,560
Exactly.

1481
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,560
And so it's will throw money at you to come in their ecosystem.

1482
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:42,560
Why would you why would you do this?

1483
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:45,560
Hey, come work in our ecosystem and maybe get sued.

1484
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:47,560
So fucking short-sighted, right?

1485
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:49,560
So fucking short-sighted.

1486
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:52,560
And I even there's no even like it's not short-sighted for like millions, right?

1487
01:22:52,560 --> 01:23:00,560
It's short-sighted for for literally to them, I would assume incremental cash, right?

1488
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:04,560
And and you're make and like, how would you not read the fucking room?

1489
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:09,560
That's just like it doesn't make any sense to me, but whether the right or wrong, like I'm not saying they're right or wrong.

1490
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:16,560
I really not that in a legal system that doesn't make any like that has only that's only part of the truth is if they're right or wrong.

1491
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:19,560
Even if they're right, is it worth it?

1492
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:22,560
Like is this in the long term the right thing?

1493
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:30,560
And is this in the right thing for and we've talked about this on this fucking show more times rising a rising tide raises all ships, right?

1494
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:36,560
And so to your point for a like if you're shitting on this whole ecosystem or you're trying to say, hey, this is Dev hostile type of thing.

1495
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:38,560
And even if people don't read it, it's still news, right?

1496
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:41,560
It's end up on coin desk or some stupid shit, right?

1497
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:45,560
So like, how do you not look at that and say, this is this is stupid?

1498
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:46,560
Like, what are we doing?

1499
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:50,560
Like, you're in a bad position, even if you're even if they're right, I'm not saying they're right, but even if they are right.

1500
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:53,560
And they think that this is a bad situation and like they're getting fucked here.

1501
01:23:53,560 --> 01:24:00,560
You got to look at the bigger picture to say we're getting fucked, but what what solution do we have here that really solves this problem?

1502
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:01,560
Right?

1503
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:02,560
Well, that's just it, isn't it?

1504
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:11,560
Like, and yeah, and especially like, you know, AIB must be a large backorder as well in atom and a variety of other currencies in the eco.

1505
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:19,560
You just like, all of those things are going to add up to substantially more potential return.

1506
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:27,560
Like you said, then anything to be gained from this, either reputational on the one hand or financial from damages on the other hand.

1507
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:42,560
And the knock on effect I've seen in this is even in a short period of time is other people basically waving around the defamation stick and being like, see, see that time when you did say something about me, I could have done this.

1508
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:48,560
And it's just like, it's such a bad precedent because now other people are talking about defamation lawsuits.

1509
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:49,560
Right.

1510
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:52,560
In the bloody interchange, you know, what are we doing?

1511
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:54,560
We're just completely wasting.

1512
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:58,560
Like, if that's the way this ecosystem is going to go, I'm out.

1513
01:24:58,560 --> 01:24:59,560
What's the point?

1514
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:00,560
Fuck this shit.

1515
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:08,560
You know, because I tell you where nobody threatens to sue you for just going to work every day corporate contracting.

1516
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:12,560
You can you turn up your fucking right, your terraform.

1517
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:14,560
You give you corpus.

1518
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:16,560
You give you you give your executive summary.

1519
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:22,560
You say, hey, guys, you should be running on AWS on GZP rather than run your own data center.

1520
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:24,560
You're wasting a load of money.

1521
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:27,560
You know, it may not look like it right now, but believe me, you're wasting money.

1522
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:29,560
You just your job is selling widgets.

1523
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:32,560
You should be focused on selling widgets, not running servers.

1524
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:35,560
You know, you'll thank me in five years.

1525
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:36,560
Let's fucking go.

1526
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:38,560
Yolo, come on.

1527
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:40,560
You hand that over to the board.

1528
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:41,560
You go about your way.

1529
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:42,560
You know what happens?

1530
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:43,560
You don't get fucking sued.

1531
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:44,560
I love it.

1532
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:47,560
That's how you make that's how you make money in this business.