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Anyway, the point is you'd expect them to be from like Iran or or California, but I can't

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immediately tell where they're from these pistachios. So, you know, fucking

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent validator teams.

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Hello and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent validator

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teams. And it's only been a week. We took a week off one week off in a year and I'd forgotten

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that that's how the show starts. So, welcome Dan from Defiant Labs as well. We're coming back hard.

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Not only we're coming back all quarat last week. Yeah, regulars of the show will know.

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Just had a baby. I was the only one that was ready to do the show last week.

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I'm throwing everybody else under the bus. That's true.

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Nobody else has the excuse. I was here. I was ready. I was all that had to cancel. Although,

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to be fair, Shortsy was trying to tell me that he couldn't make it and my phone was like not with me.

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And so Shortsy was just a paddock that I didn't know. It was just like, dude, dude, dude. And I

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was just like, oh, right. Yeah. I mean, I assumed you guys had already rugged me, but hey, happy days.

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So anyway, we got Dan from Defiant and I guess we've got like what two weeks of cosmos drama

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to catch up on. So that's like what, 20 years in normal time, something like that, two weeks.

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And yeah. So what I mean, I obviously haven't been doing anything other than really changing

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nappies. So I literally, I nearly missed an upgrade on like a home chain because I was like,

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when is that upgrade supposed to be? Like, I feel like somebody told me there was an upgrade or

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well, I helped prepare an upgrade or something. It turned out it was like already happened,

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but I'd already done the work for it. So it's automation, baby. We're all big fans of automation

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here. And this is why. And for those of you that don't have kids yet, but run validators,

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get your automation game sorted. Do you figure out a way to automate those poopy diapers?

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No, but so the Weeban is actually wearing a piece of future Game of Nodes merch at the moment.

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Which, uh, oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, if I, if I could go and get them and kind of,

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what you said, you said me it's an NFT. Did you say it was one of one?

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It is one of one.

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Everybody knows, no, there's nothing unique in the world except for NFTs that live forever on

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the blockchain. Okay. So don't give me that. I refuse to believe it. I think that's a fact.

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True. Yeah. Nothing truly, nothing is truly as artisanal as an NFT. But yeah, I don't know.

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I, I got to say, I got to say, so, uh, what the item in question is a Game of Nodes baby grow.

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It's very, very cool. You serve the man with the plan, uh, responsible for that one.

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Is it too good for the DJs or should we actually do Game of Nodes merch? Because I,

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I fucking love it. I think it's brilliant. I think it's brilliant. I'm the only one that

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gets the joke, but it's, that's fine. I think the problem with doing like Game of Nodes merch is just

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like, you know, the fear that no one will buy it and then we just look like noobs.

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Yeah. Like, so, but we, but we got over that when we realized that no one's going to watch

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a show either. So does it really, does it, does it honestly really matter?

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Yeah. So the six people that watch the show,

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share the same amount for the next conference, I will totally rock some Game of Nodes.

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There you go. All right. We got one.

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Yeah. But this is the worst talk about like, does anybody wear merch? And like,

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we were literally talking what yesterday or the day before about

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We're in Cosmos merch right now.

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Look at that. Yeah.

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Well, we didn't we see somebody like, there was somebody like a friend of a friend or like a,

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a one remove connection saw somebody in artifacts merch at a completely unrelated conference.

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Yeah. Yeah. So they just, they just post that because they do a really good job with merch.

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Like artifact doesn't, that's a cool brand and they have great artifact has the killer merch.

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They do. They do a really good job. And then, and then, and then they give, I don't give his,

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I'm like a doxon, but they give a lot of stuff away, like shirts and other types of things.

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And then he just put in a, on a chat that somebody that some random suey, was it a suey event or

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something similar to that? I don't think it was a missed an event. Yeah.

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A missed an event. Like somebody's walking around with an artifact shirt and somebody else saw it

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like, Oh my God, you guys are everywhere. You never know where that stuff's going to show up.

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I thought my favorite.

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My favorite was a luna loot. Remember them? Like how much like stuff that they had.

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You get like, that's right.

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You get like tennis shoes, like with different like protocol logos on there. They had everything.

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Those looked really cool though. I'll be honest. I wanted one.

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Yeah. Yeah. Hold up. Hold up. So okay. The Milady merch is probably the best merch.

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Did I tell you guys about this?

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That's where you, well, in the context, I think it was at a rave at 2am and you were probably

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spiked with something. So your judgment might have been a little bit off.

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It was a Milady rave. I found out later. It was actually a Milady NFT rave and they had,

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they had rave merch and it was like free. It was like, you know, because it's the

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free merch for the, for the crypto stuff. They were handing out joints, Milady joints.

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So of course it's legal, isn't it? I just sometimes I can't keep up with America, man.

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There's 50 different rules around what's legal.

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50 different Americas out there. 50, 51 different Americas.

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All right. Something like that.

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Something like that.

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That's right. They gave, yeah, they had Milady joints at the thing. That's a good merch.

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That's actually quite cool.

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And they are very strong. Yeah, I had to make use of my stopwatch.

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It was like a whole situation where I had to set the timer, make sure I was like,

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found out where I lived and was in a taxi before I got to 10 minutes.

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Otherwise there was no telling what might happen.

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The timer is going.

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We have, I'm in Maryland on the East Coast and in two months,

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it's going to be legalized here, recreational use.

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And we just had our first cannabis like workspace like opening up like a few miles from me,

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where it's like, you can just go in there, you can work and chill,

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but it's like right next to dispensary.

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That's wild. I don't know if I would want that.

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Like you're working, working, working and everyone's like,

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just chill.

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Who has chill onions?

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Yep.

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Dude, if you're a snack vendor in that workspace, you're going to make bank.

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Yeah, right. I think just after legalization, I was in California and I got given what I

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thought was a pack of matches with like a dispensary name on it.

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And I was like, funny souvenir.

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I just left it in my wallet.

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This is how frequently I clean out my wallet, literally years.

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And then years later, I was like actually clean out my wallet.

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I was like, just throwing stuff out.

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I was like, oh, that's that fucking, okay.

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And then I kind of just like sort of got rid of it and all these seeds spilled out.

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And I was like, oh, it wasn't matches.

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And I realized that like that had been in my wallet.

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I had been to, I had backpacked across China.

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I had been to all these places where that shit is very illegal.

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And it just, for whatever, I guess they're just dried seeds, right?

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So no sniffing dogs were ever noticed, but they just been in my wallet for like

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four years or something.

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I was like, holy shit.

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Okay.

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Notes, many state lines.

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Yeah.

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It's fucking check the freebies you're given in future.

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So you know, no, before you leave, before you leave America,

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just check you haven't got any of those, uh, Milady,

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I nearly said Milady NFTs, Milady joints in your pockets.

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The NFTs are also illegal in a bunch of territories.

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So you want to be careful.

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They're just so, the NFTs are too shit.

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Yeah.

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I've been, I've been like trying to figure out what I can and can't take home.

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Like when we're at the jerky store today, I'm like,

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I wonder how much of this I can get away with like in my bag.

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It's processed, right?

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You can take that stuff home.

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Yeah, I feel like it's not a threat to the economy or anything.

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Yeah, I think you're good.

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You can't, you can't say like, there's like,

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are those things like tea that sometimes you can't, like again, one of my,

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as it turned out, accidental smuggling things was I brought back loads of tea from China.

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And then it's just on my desk at work.

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Like I still have loads of this.

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It's really good, really good tea.

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Somebody was like, do you just bring that back in your backpack?

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I was like, yeah, what's the big deal?

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And they were like, it's an agricultural product,

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like that might have bugs and stuff on it.

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I was like, ah, it's been in a seal container for years.

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Only bugs are dead.

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And they're like, still definitely illegal.

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I was like, ah, but a bit of, but a bit of, you know, just

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now I want to hear about your America.

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It's like smuggling smuggling.

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How is my America adventure going?

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It's very ad hoc.

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I was just actually talking to a Shilty today about how incredibly tiring it's been

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when you just like run around the place unplanned.

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It's both tiring and expensive.

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So, yeah, I mean, it's been good, but like I said, unplanned.

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So I have been to Denver, Breckenridge, which I don't recommend to anyone

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because it is so fucking high in the air.

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So yeah, we were all dying while we were there.

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It was sad.

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Yeah, it's people like walking around with cans of air huffing air and shit.

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Literally, it was wild.

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Literally.

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Is it challenging to like maintain your validators at all while you're on the road?

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Like, do you need physical access to any of them ever?

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No, not physical access.

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It hasn't been a problem managing nodes.

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You know, automation.

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But it makes you want access. It is like definitely organization is like a lot more

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difficult when you're on the road.

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So you rely a lot more on your phone.

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And you know, when you're on your phone and not in your office, you read things and sometimes

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you forget where you're at if you don't make a note of it straight away.

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So obviously, when you're going through like discord and looking at all the upcoming upgrades

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and different things that you need to be involved in, you can like make notes on your

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computer and make a to-do list and, you know, action that type of stuff.

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But it's a little bit more difficult to manage that workflow on your phone.

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So whilst we haven't missed anything, it's just like being a little bit of a pain.

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I think I did an upgrade on the street the other day.

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I just like whipped out my laptop and kneeled down, like took a knee, chucked my laptop on

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top of my bag and just like quickly did an upgrade on something.

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So, you know, it's a little bit different like that.

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Did you stop everyone in the New York City sidewalks like people, people?

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Oh, they just like peel right out.

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Doing an important Showawa update here.

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Get the fuck out of the way.

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Fuck out of my way.

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So many shitcoins lying in the balance here.

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Yeah, I mean, so.

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I've seen quite a few good ones of those.

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Like I think it was Highlander, like early doors, Juno, I think.

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I feel those was quite a while ago, but knowing fucking Cosmos, it was probably five minutes

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ago and I'm just getting older at a rapid pace.

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I think he was like camping for a weekend and there was just, yeah, it was just like him in

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like a woodland clearing with like a phone propped up on a tree.

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I did the same thing for the, this is awful.

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I was at a camp with my boys and I brought a laptop because I knew something was coming

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and I was up at 2 a.m.

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Troubleshooting via like a 3G connection.

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You can only get a shell connection to start Cerberus.

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Looking back, maybe not my wisest time.

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I'd say maybe not the best use of my time.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, I think a lot of people I know have done one on a plane when playing Wi-Fi.

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That seems quite common.

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I've done one on the channel tunnel.

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So under the ocean.

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That's so cool.

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Like a bomb.

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Yeah, the Wi-Fi fucking works now.

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Dude, the plane Wi-Fi, I guess it's for relays.

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We just, I just used it coming back from Denver.

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Like that thing, I forget what, I mean, it really wasn't on, but like it was hauling ass.

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Like it was no problem.

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I will tell you the Wi-Fi on Amtrak blows.

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Is there Wi-Fi?

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I thought you had to use your phone or something.

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Yeah, so a lot of time you have to use your phone, but there's some Amtrak trains that have

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Wi-Fi and it sucks.

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Yeah, it can't be.

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It can't be pretty.

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Fuck you, Amtrak.

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They're not.

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This is what business, this is what business broadband or whatever is for.

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You just get something with good roaming and you just have to get fucked every day.

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By your provider.

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I need the thing that like Shilty has, the little box that you just take around with you.

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The Wi-Fi, it's glorious, glorious.

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Highly recommend it.

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Yeah, I wish there was a worldwide thing and just like slap that thing in your bag and

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tear around everywhere.

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That'd be great.

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What is that, Shilty?

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Is that like different from like a Wi-Fi hotspot you activate on your phone?

225
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:15,440
So it uses T-Mobile's bands, so the Sprint and T-Mobile bands, and you just get 5G everywhere

226
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:15,760
you go.

227
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:17,600
Well, everywhere you've got T-Mobile.

228
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,280
I assume you could go to like Mexico with it because T-Mobile has a deal with Mexico where

229
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,400
you just have full coverage.

230
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:24,160
But I doubt it.

231
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:29,520
You pay like a yearly subscription and it's just unlimited for the year 5G.

232
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:30,000
Yep.

233
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,120
Yep, it's great.

234
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:31,920
That's what I lived off of.

235
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,200
And it creates a Wi-Fi point for you.

236
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,800
Is that how it works and you connect to it?

237
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,240
And it's fast, it's bloody fast.

238
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:37,760
It's actually faster than my home internet.

239
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:38,800
Nice.

240
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:46,080
So how is that different to just an access point that's a SIM card?

241
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:46,880
It's basically the same thing.

242
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,240
It actually uses a SIM card.

243
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:53,760
It's just really the big benefit is that it's unlimited, one, and that you pay once a year

244
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,680
and you get unlimited for the entire year.

245
00:13:55,680 --> 00:14:00,080
So it's $500 for the year of unlimited internet, which is great.

246
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,600
You get unlimited 5G for the whole year for $500?

247
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,280
For $500, yeah.

248
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:06,560
And that includes the hardware.

249
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:07,920
And that's ultra wide, right?

250
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,680
Like that's 5G, you get the...

251
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:10,160
Yep.

252
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:10,880
Yeah.

253
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,240
Shieldsy, if I had any sense at all, I would have asked to borrow that from you.

254
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:15,760
Yeah.

255
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:16,800
You know, that would have been smart.

256
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,240
I even brought it with me to Denver.

257
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,360
Since you're...

258
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,080
Yeah, exactly.

259
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:21,920
You could have brought it back to him, right?

260
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:22,160
Yeah.

261
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:23,440
Yeah.

262
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,520
Meanwhile, I've been like struggling to stay connected for the last like three weeks.

263
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,760
You could just get a business mobile and have like two SIMs and have the second SIM

264
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,400
be an unlimited SIM with 5G.

265
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:35,600
You can shut the fuck up.

266
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:36,320
I think we should...

267
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,960
Let's give you a thousand solutions on how you fucked up the last three weeks.

268
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:39,600
Yeah.

269
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,160
Because actually it's like, I think we have nine terabytes a month

270
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,240
for about $22.

271
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,200
Yeah.

272
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,960
It's a little bit more difficult for a foreigner to like get a good data plan.

273
00:14:52,960 --> 00:15:00,880
So I have to rely on apps like AirAllow and use eSims, but like 10 gigs is like 26 bucks,

274
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:01,200
something.

275
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,480
So I used two of those packs.

276
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,640
I mean, you can expense the fuck out of it.

277
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:07,120
So like...

278
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,680
Expense it to who?

279
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,040
Myself, your peanut.

280
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,720
I wouldn't know, but what I mean is like, if you're like, oh, I'm going to be in a place

281
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:21,120
for a month and just like put my name is Mr. Big Bull's blockchain,

282
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,320
I live at 123 Denver Street in Denver, Colorado, and then get a fucking contract.

283
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,640
Like they don't ever check that address, do they?

284
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:29,040
Doxed.

285
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,080
I feel like that would work.

286
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,080
Did you use Todd's address?

287
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:34,880
He'll appreciate it.

288
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:35,840
Exactly.

289
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:36,400
Exactly.

290
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:36,800
That's how...

291
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,600
I already send my shit to Todd's house, so it might as well like...

292
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:42,800
Yeah, I love it.

293
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,440
But to answer your question, Dan, my travels have been interesting.

294
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,440
Really loved New Orleans.

295
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:52,400
That place was awesome.

296
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,680
Just around the French Quarter, the rest of the place is crap.

297
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:58,080
Sorry, people.

298
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,160
And yeah, Atlanta.

299
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,920
Sorry if you live in Atlanta, that place blows.

300
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,160
And where else did I go?

301
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:07,680
New York is pretty cool.

302
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:08,240
NDC, right?

303
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,280
You stopped in D.C.?

304
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,600
Yeah, D.C. I should not have gone to Atlanta and just spent like three days in D.C.

305
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,840
D.C. you could spend weeks and just...

306
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,640
I mean, it depends on how much American history you care about and whatever,

307
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,280
but there's so much shit in D.C. it's amazing.

308
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:22,560
I found it all very interesting.

309
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:28,320
I've been averaging like probably 15 to 20 Ks a day walking.

310
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:28,880
Steps?

311
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:29,200
Okay.

312
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:29,520
Yeah.

313
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,840
In these cities, so in some like a lot of that is carrying my bag around as well.

314
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,440
I mean, I haven't been drinking beer as much because like I'd be bankrupt by now

315
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,280
if I was drinking my regular amount of beer.

316
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:42,480
Yeah.

317
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:48,160
So going to a pub and drinking beer in America with our exchange rate is just not very good.

318
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,360
And then they want fucking tips every beer and you're like, but I just had one beer.

319
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:55,040
Yeah.

320
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:55,840
So like...

321
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:56,240
Yeah.

322
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,120
What the fuck, man?

323
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:04,320
I'll tell you what, like the to buy a beer at a pub is if you were to put the menus side by side,

324
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:09,600
the Australian menus and the American menus, like the numbers would be the same, right?

325
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:14,960
But then like you add on the 50% and then another 20% for a tip and it's getting expensive.

326
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:22,240
Like I'm looking at $17 in my money for a beer, whereas in Australia it'd be like 10 bucks.

327
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:22,880
So...

328
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,200
I feel like the cost of a beer sometimes, especially in a city in America,

329
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:35,120
is approaching like a cocktail and a cocktail bar in like the financial bit of London.

330
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:35,840
You know what I mean?

331
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,520
It's approaching a meal.

332
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,800
Like the cost of a beer is approaching a meal.

333
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,400
Maybe not quite a meal, but like it's a hot dog curt meal.

334
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:46,240
Yeah.

335
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,520
I got hot dogs in New York, two hot dogs, two dollars each for the hot dog.

336
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:51,920
Bam.

337
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,760
And it was like five bucks.

338
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,360
Did you get those Nathan's from Coney Island or whatever?

339
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:04,240
No, there was a five-star rated hot dog stand in New York right next to Central Park.

340
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:05,760
The dude was awesome.

341
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,520
He's like this great guy.

342
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:08,000
Yeah.

343
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,160
And yeah, I mean, he's got 500 reviews, five-star reviews.

344
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:14,480
Like I'm going to do it.

345
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,280
Well, what point is that like more of a meme than an actual...

346
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,760
Like are they self-perpetuating past a point?

347
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,840
People are like, yeah, it's definitely five stars.

348
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,160
Well, I don't know, the guy was awesome, the hot dogs were good.

349
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:25,360
Would you give him five stars?

350
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:26,480
Seems like great value.

351
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:27,360
Boom, 501.

352
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:27,840
There you go.

353
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,200
Two bucks for a fucking hot dog?

354
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:29,600
Jesus.

355
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,400
So DC, New York, and then you move down, right?

356
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:37,760
Now I'm in Portland now, yeah.

357
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:38,400
Yeah.

358
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,960
So I'm at Schultz's house now in his basement.

359
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,400
And then you're going south to LA, right?

360
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,200
So you have a plan.

361
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,720
What's your plan to get out of there?

362
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:47,840
Yeah, I don't have a plan.

363
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:48,720
Oh, perfect.

364
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:49,440
Lovely.

365
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,200
Yeah, he's just going to move in basically.

366
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,480
That sounds like...

367
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:53,440
You might as well.

368
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,960
Much the same as like the last...

369
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,680
From parent basement to parent basement.

370
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:58,880
I have no fucking plan.

371
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,160
The life of a cosmos valedict to go after the world.

372
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:10,560
I tell you what though, my accommodation at New York fucking sucked.

373
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:17,440
And I've realized that there's like this bullshit thing that they do in America

374
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:25,280
where the hotels will have a headline base price on the things.

375
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,880
And then when you book...

376
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:27,840
That was it.

377
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:28,800
Yep, see ya.

378
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:29,200
Fine.

379
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:29,920
Who kicked him out?

380
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,480
I didn't kick him out.

381
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:33,680
Obviously can't be the internet.

382
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:37,760
Clearly cannot be the internet.

383
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,480
They're like, oh, he's going to tell everybody how the rate system actually works.

384
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:43,200
Let's get rid of him.

385
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,000
Cut him off.

386
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,560
Traveling, Jensy.

387
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,040
So anyway, like I was saying, so they add on this resort for you, right?

388
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,840
So I stayed at the Paramount Hotel on 46th.

389
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,280
Don't stay at this piece of shit.

390
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,440
The room was just like a shitty double bed.

391
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,800
The bathroom, like you couldn't turn around and it was so fucking small.

392
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,400
There was about three square feet of area around the bed.

393
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:13,600
Dude, you're a Manhattan.

394
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:14,000
What do you want?

395
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,720
And there was fucking construction started at 7 a.m. every morning, right?

396
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:19,760
That's all New York.

397
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,760
They were hammering rocks across the road.

398
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,280
And like literally, I had the rock hammers start at 7 a.m. on the dock.

399
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,400
But like once you take the fee, the tax and the...

400
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,320
And this fucking stupid resort fee that they hide in there,

401
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,320
then I could have got like a decent room just around the corner at another hotel.

402
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,920
So it's just, it's scammy.

403
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,680
And the way they market it, I asked them if I could cancel.

404
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,160
I said, you're scamming people.

405
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:48,960
They said no.

406
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,360
So I had to stay in a hotel where I told them no scammers.

407
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:51,840
It was great.

408
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,560
So they were also spitting in your coffee after that point?

409
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:57,520
Yeah, probably.

410
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,120
I'll probably shit in my pillows.

411
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:04,400
And then when I left, this annoyed me the most.

412
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:10,240
When I left, so I haven't had any cash the whole time I've been in the U.S.,

413
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,000
right? I've just tapped for everything, not had any cash at all.

414
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,880
And then when I, and I'll tell you a funny story about that.

415
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,920
And when I left this hotel, I wanted to like store my bag, right?

416
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,440
So I could go and cruise around for a couple of hours before I had to go to the airport.

417
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,280
And it was two bucks to store it with this, with the hotel.

418
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,280
So usually it's free at a hotel, right?

419
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:31,520
It should be.

420
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:32,160
You stayed at it.

421
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:33,200
It's like, you know, it's free.

422
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,280
They've chuck a tag and it's sticking in the bag room.

423
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:36,160
Two bucks, okay.

424
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,760
It's practically free anyway, except it was fucking cash only,

425
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:40,640
or Venmo.

426
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,360
And you can't get Venmo unless you're a fucking U.S. resident.

427
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:44,160
I didn't have any cash.

428
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:49,280
It would have cost me like $5 F-Boss fee just to get fucking cash out for the two.

429
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,160
I said, you know what?

430
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:50,880
Fuck you.

431
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,400
And I went and paid someone else eight bucks.

432
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,760
And then later that day, I ended up getting cash out anyway,

433
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:00,800
so I could get a sweet hot dog.

434
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,920
What, the guy didn't take, he didn't take credit cards?

435
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:06,880
No, mate, just Gish.

436
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:07,520
Gish.

437
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:08,560
Just Gish.

438
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,600
Yeah, but I was willing to go get the Gish for a two dollar hot dog.

439
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,680
So, but that was a fucking place.

440
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,240
More hot dog from Nico Bellic from Grand Theft Auto 4.

441
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,760
That's a weird reference dude.

442
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:21,920
Our thing is going to Gish.

443
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:22,240
Yeah.

444
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:23,280
It's going to Gish.

445
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,080
Gish.

446
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,040
This is my cousin.

447
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:26,800
All right.

448
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:28,480
Hello, cousin.

449
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,800
I really just, we actually have some, not only do we have some viewers,

450
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,480
we presumably have some viewers who are keen to hear from Dan as well.

451
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,320
But yeah, shout out to people who stuck with us for taking one week off.

452
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:42,560
Can you please?

453
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:43,360
Did we take two weeks?

454
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:44,720
We took two weeks off, right?

455
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:45,840
Did we take two weeks off?

456
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:46,400
Well, we did.

457
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,640
No, no, we only did in a stream for one week.

458
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,800
No, but we skipped a Denver week.

459
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:51,280
Yeah.

460
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,880
We meant to do it and then we got too drunk and then you were at this Malady party

461
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,320
for 24 hours and then we came home.

462
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,080
Oh yeah, you guys rocked me that week as well, didn't you?

463
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:58,640
That's correct.

464
00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:58,800
Yeah.

465
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,480
So, have we skipped two weeks?

466
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:01,680
We've skipped not in a row.

467
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:02,320
We skipped one.

468
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:02,720
Not in a row.

469
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:03,360
We had one.

470
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:03,680
It wasn't a row.

471
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:04,160
It wasn't a row.

472
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:04,880
We skipped one.

473
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,880
No, we had one in between there, didn't we?

474
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:07,680
Yeah.

475
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,840
So, have I only missed one episode?

476
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,360
No, you've missed like seven episodes.

477
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:13,760
Oh, that's right, because you rugged us in the middle of one.

478
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:14,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

479
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,200
That's when you hit, that's when you joined from Denver and you hit the end button.

480
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:18,320
And then rugged us.

481
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:19,280
That was last week, right?

482
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,560
Yeah, I forgot about that.

483
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:20,960
That's right.

484
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,160
Too funny.

485
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,040
Yeah, funny.

486
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,200
You did your last stream was 13 days ago.

487
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:31,520
The energy from the chat is that people are not happy with our lack of either punctuality.

488
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:32,640
Well, I mean, that's every week.

489
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:38,560
So, but also, you know, not doing a week commitment lacking.

490
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:39,920
That's a good question.

491
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:40,560
I mean, what do you want?

492
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,240
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think literally all of our rewards for a week wouldn't pay for the time.

493
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:48,960
Exactly.

494
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:49,840
That's right.

495
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:52,000
Yeah.

496
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:58,000
So there's, there's a, yeah, we have an Australian in there.

497
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,480
Anyway, when you refer to Dan, can you please call in

498
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:03,520
boys proper name defined?

499
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:04,560
Dan, defined.

500
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:04,960
Damn.

501
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:05,520
Defined.

502
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:05,680
Yeah.

503
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:06,320
Is that really what?

504
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,440
Call me what you are, man.

505
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:10,160
It's defined.

506
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:10,320
Yeah.

507
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,880
I like a fantastic man better.

508
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,480
That title is great.

509
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:17,360
It's a good one.

510
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:18,720
Fantastic man defined.

511
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,360
Then.

512
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:19,600
Yeah.

513
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,800
For anybody that's an Alan Partridge fan, you might get that reference.

514
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:24,880
Cool.

515
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:25,600
Okay.

516
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,280
So shall we talk to our guests now?

517
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,120
It's been as it's 23 minutes.

518
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:31,760
We've ignored, we've ignored our guests for 25 minutes.

519
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,120
We should have the time as usual.

520
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,680
Should we, or should we be even more standoffish since this is our first week back after a while

521
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,400
away?

522
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:40,800
Okay.

523
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:41,120
Hang on.

524
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:42,320
Let me, let me kick this off.

525
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,560
Let me, let me ask you to find Dan some shit.

526
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,760
So Dan, before I start, is the thing, is that like pretty public now?

527
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:50,880
People know about that?

528
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,040
You know, the thing that I'm talking about before I start talking about it?

529
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:54,400
I do.

530
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,080
We can talk about that, but there's been some developments on that where I'm not

531
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:58,960
going to be involved with it.

532
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,240
Okay. So I'll give a small amount of background to the thing.

533
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,000
So Defiant Labs, I believe.

534
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,400
Dan, and who's your partner, Dan?

535
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:10,640
Yeah.

536
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,360
So basically me and a friend, Kyle, we've been working together for like six years.

537
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:20,960
We created Defiant early 2022 and we're working on a couple of things.

538
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,200
You want me to just kind of tell you a little bit about the company and then you can

539
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:24,640
go the direction you want?

540
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,720
You can tell us about the company, then I'll ask you about the

541
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,720
company, obviously address, obviously registration numbers.

542
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,360
We're really not that old.

543
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:34,480
Excuse me.

544
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,760
I'm doing the interviewing here.

545
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:38,320
No, is that a good...

546
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,400
Can you just...

547
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,360
I'm a Virgo.

548
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,360
So I want to know what you are.

549
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,520
Can you just interview yourself because Null is really not a good interviewer.

550
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,560
Dan, tell us about the company.

551
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:49,520
Tell me where you grew up.

552
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,160
Then I'll ask you some pointed questions about all the stuff that you got going on.

553
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:54,880
Get it.

554
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:55,760
Yeah, sure.

555
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,880
So we primarily are doing like three things.

556
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:04,720
So the biggest thing that we started with first was trying to solve a tax problem for Cosmos.

557
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:11,280
So my goal was I wanted to index all of Cosmos, like pre-index it all and do a MySQL database,

558
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,480
or actually we use Postgres, but I wanted to index it in there and make like a nice friendly

559
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,120
app that you can go to, connect your wallet to, get all of your taxes.

560
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:24,880
Primarily for you as citizens, because that's like the tax law that I know, but I imagine it

561
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,000
could be adapted to others.

562
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,080
So that's like the big thing that we've been working on.

563
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:37,200
We did that with a grant from the Interchain Foundation via Strangelove, and then we also

564
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:43,840
got some help from Osmosis for actually indexing all their custom modules.

565
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,440
Instead of just like the bank, stake, gov, all see, we added the gam, the superfluids,

566
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,960
all those different modules.

567
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,560
And we made it so it's really easy.

568
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,320
You just go to, I'll post a link in the chat here.

569
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,200
Our tool is called Sycamore, which is a great name.

570
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,360
It's like you're sick of more taxes.

571
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,120
Like I love my name.

572
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:03,680
Oh, that's good.

573
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,600
But I'll post it in both the chats if you guys want to check it out.

574
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,000
But yeah, you just type in your address right now and then you can get your Osmosis taxes

575
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,280
and we're looking to expand to a whole bunch of other chains.

576
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,840
The other main thing that we're working on right now is also for the Osmosis team.

577
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,800
They wanted a solution to have the mainnet and the testnet prices match.

578
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:33,280
So we're creating a custom module that will allow us to basically scan mainnet,

579
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:38,640
see what the pool ratio balance is, and then on testnet we'll be able to mint tokens and we'll

580
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,080
be calling that module to make the testnet pools match.

581
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,360
So like once a day, we're trying to bring parity to Osmosis testnet to be similar to mainnet,

582
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,440
which we think will help out with like development.

583
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,760
So that's the second big thing that we're working on.

584
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,480
And then the third thing that Kyle and I started together,

585
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,680
but actually Kyle's going to take it and run it on his own, is a arbitrage solution.

586
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,720
So I think that's what Noel was hinting at earlier.

587
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,520
Yeah, so like I find your arbitrage thing really cool.

588
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,840
And I will try to explain it the best I can so I can ask further questions.

589
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:23,680
But so basically the guys at Defiant have created, it's an API which simulates the transaction

590
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:31,920
and works out the arbitrage between the pools so that you can submit your transaction to the API

591
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,400
and then it will give back to you a message with the transaction as well as the other

592
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:42,480
transactions you need to make to self arbitrage that transaction which you're unbalancing the

593
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:48,160
pools with. So you'll get the most benefit back from the other pools instead of someone else

594
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:55,920
taking the arbitrage of those pools. But you were looking for a home for that to be able to

595
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:02,640
integrate that with an AMM somewhere or at least the UI of an AMM. And I know I tried to help you

596
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,440
hook up with a couple of people to try and make that happen. But I'm just wondering like,

597
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,640
can you talk about how that went? Or if you had any traction with that? Or if you just sort of

598
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:19,440
given up on trying to include it in a UI somewhere? Yeah, no progress is being made. I actually just

599
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,200
sent a message to Kyle to see if he wants to hop in here and talk about it because he's really been

600
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:31,040
running point on it. But yeah, we ended up basically what the tool does is we realized,

601
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:37,920
hey, if you can predict the user's intent ahead of time, you can bundle both the swap and the

602
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:44,640
arbitrage transaction at the same time. So you basically you backrun users, which is okay,

603
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,360
because the users still get their same rate, but you front run everyone else like all the

604
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:54,080
osmosis or all the arbitrage bots that exist on chain. So you kind of get placed between those.

605
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,200
The user still gets a good rate, but the transaction never goes on chain really to the point where

606
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,440
people can compete against it because you can you know it ahead of time. But the only way that you

607
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,640
can do that is if either you're making the trade or you're someone like a dex or a wallet and you

608
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,680
know the trade that the user is about to make. So that's what we really targeted our tool at is

609
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:20,080
having that advanced knowledge and being able to capitalize on MEV on there. We built out a

610
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,800
couple different or yeah, we built out a couple different clients for like testing it out so people

611
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:33,200
can integrate. We've talked with almost every dex I think in the cosmos. We have up or Kyle has

612
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:39,840
the proposal up right now on Astroport. I think the two leading proposals on there are his company

613
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:46,880
Redpoint, which is what it's going to be called. And oh, here he is. Well, I'll let him talk.

614
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,360
Good, Kyle. How you doing? Good, man. How are you?

615
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:56,160
Hey, Kyle. Good. So I'm not fully caught up on what you're talking about, but did you basically

616
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,920
want me to give a rundown of what Redpoint is? Sure, go for it. Yeah, yeah. So what we were

617
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,640
talking about just to catch you up is we're talking a bit about the the is that what you're

618
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,360
calling it? Sorry, Redpoint, the arbitrage tool? Yes, correct. Yeah, okay. So we were talking a

619
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:18,320
little bit about Redpoint and just how you guys were trying to find a home for that in a UI somewhere

620
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:24,400
probably with a dex and just sort of talking about how that was going. So you are the man

621
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:29,200
with the information. So awesome. If you invited you up to talk about it, hit it.

622
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:36,160
Yeah, so I don't know if anyone here is aware of this, but we recently just submitted a proposal

623
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:49,200
to Astroport. So basically, like high level Redpoint is an API that you can submit a user's

624
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:58,240
trade information to, like tell it what trade a user plans to make on a dex, but the trade has not,

625
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:04,800
you know, has not been conducted yet. And Redpoint will tell you two things. Number one,

626
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:10,560
it can tell you the best way to make that trade, which some dexes may or may not want to know,

627
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,440
like they might already know how they want to make the trade. And number two is it will tell you

628
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:23,120
how to follow up that user's trade with an arbitrage trade. So at present, it does cyclic

629
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:30,720
arbitrage within the dex. So like if you use the API for osmosis, it will tell you how to make a

630
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:39,360
trade for, let's say 100 Osmo through a certain set of tools and get back more than 100 Osmo.

631
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:48,960
Obviously on osmosis, this is kind of useless now because there's Protorev on osmosis, which

632
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:56,560
already is an arbitrage capture algorithm that's in protocol. So as Protorev gets more advanced,

633
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:03,520
external tools will be less and less useful. But the point of Redpoint basically is at present,

634
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,720
it's an off-chain API that can give you that kind of information to make better trades.

635
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:17,760
As you'd see in our Ash Report proposal, we plan to make a smart contract that does this fully

636
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:25,040
on chain. So it would get all the pool prices and things like that of Ash Report or whatever

637
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:32,560
dex it's integrated with from that dex's LPs. It would calculate the arbitrage trades and make

638
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:39,760
those trades all on chain. And the way that would work at present for a dex like Ash Report is

639
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:48,480
they'd just call the smart contract in the transaction after the user's trade. So it would

640
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:55,040
kind of be a two-part transaction where part one is the same way that's today for the dex, where

641
00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:04,240
they just do the user swap. And part two is the smart contract for Redpoint. And Redpoint also,

642
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:12,960
for example, on Ash Report also offered to pay the user's transaction fees fully. So the user's

643
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:20,240
not going to incur any additional gas fees from calling this smart contract. So I think that's

644
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:26,240
pretty much high level of rundown of what the tool is if anyone has any questions.

645
00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:33,200
How did it come to be? I mean, it sounds really cool. What I'm imagining as an initial pass would

646
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:38,640
have been just like what, generating the JSON for it and then you could issue it via the CLI. So

647
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,680
then what I guess you could have for yourself originally, right? Yeah. So all this software

648
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:52,240
was custom made by me. Honestly, originally, I saw transactions on chain that were doing arbitrage

649
00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:59,920
where they were on osmosis and they were trading some amount of Osmo for more Osmo. And I kind of

650
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:06,720
asked myself, how is that possible? How is somebody literally making free money? You know,

651
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:13,360
as I learned more about it, I obviously realized it's not free money, right? It has a service to

652
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:20,960
the community, which is that it balances the pools. And I figured out how it works. So originally,

653
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:27,760
it really started as an arbitrage bot on Osmosis that was just, you know, racing, competing with

654
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:35,840
all of the other bots on Osmosis to do what everyone's doing there. It's kind of like a losing

655
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:43,280
game, though. There's lots of transaction fees there. There's spamming the chain with tons of

656
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,480
failed transactions. And that's kind of, I think, what the Osmosis team realized is that it's not

657
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:55,840
an efficient way to do arbitrage. So out of that red point was kind of born where it's like, hey,

658
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:03,920
the reason all this arbitrage exists is because, you know, people are making certain trades. So why

659
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:09,360
not have the users tell you what trades they're planning to make in advance, and then you can

660
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:16,400
calculate what the resulting arbitrage would be in advance and guarantee that you capture that

661
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:23,120
arbitrage rather than, you know, random bots on chain capturing that arbitrage. So when I came to

662
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:28,880
that realization, that's when I realized you could actually, in Cosmos SDK, you can package

663
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:36,160
multiple messages into a single transaction, and then you can atomically do more than one thing.

664
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:43,360
In this case, you're kind of atomically doing the user swap plus the arbitrage swap in a single

665
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:50,000
transaction. So that's kind of the technique that's at the basis of Red Point's tool and obviously

666
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:57,360
the algorithm to figure out the arbitrage as well. So do you see, so besides the current

667
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:02,160
proposal that's out there, do you have any other leads about where this might be integrated as well

668
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:11,440
or other things that you're working on with it? Yeah, so I'm hoping as one of the first steps here

669
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:20,480
to get an integration with a DEX front end or a popular aggregator like TFM that can use off-chain

670
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,840
tooling that does this, because most of the DEX is in the ecosystem right now or most of the front end

671
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:31,600
tools in the ecosystem right now, they're not capturing all of this arbitrage value. It's

672
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:39,680
just going to bots out there and therefore whoever is generating or originating, I should say,

673
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:46,080
whoever is originating these trades isn't actually capturing value from them. So that's the first

674
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:54,480
step. And the second step to me is making this thing fully on-chain. I think Red Point in particular

675
00:37:54,480 --> 00:38:00,800
has a huge advantage over other searchers out there that do arbitrage searching. Even if they try to

676
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:07,680
use the same technique that we came up with, which was packaging the two swap messages into the same

677
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:14,800
transaction, they won't be able to replicate what we're able to do on-chain. Our algorithm's very

678
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:20,640
efficient. It doesn't use looping or a lot of these other techniques. Like you'll see some open source

679
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:27,600
software out there that basically has very inefficient mechanisms to calculate this stuff.

680
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:33,760
So we really believe that at some point in the next year, we're going to release this as kind of

681
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,560
an on-chain smart contract module that people will be able to plug into their DEXes.

682
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,560
Thank you. That's awesome.

683
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,960
Is it going to be affected by, you know, there's obviously a lot, we've had the skip guys on stuff

684
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,040
like that. Is it going to be affected by some of the developments in the space where there's

685
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:56,240
like, there's an arms race beginning to develop around flash loans, for example. And MEV is obviously

686
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:03,360
the other big topic where people are going to increasingly be watching what's sort of proposed

687
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:10,880
in a block and then using bots to say use MEV for additional leverage to gain advantage in these

688
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:17,360
kind of scenarios. Is the solution sufficient by comparison? It doesn't matter or is there a way

689
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,200
of taking those things to account or is that actually part of the arms race and it's kind of

690
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,200
out of band of where things are now?

691
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,800
So that's a very interesting question. And I think what you're referring to is kind of the

692
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:38,800
skips logic is basically that searchers should participate in an auction to figure out who

693
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:48,080
can generate the most MEV for the chain and whoever wins that auction should get the opportunity

694
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:56,480
to do that. I don't necessarily disagree with that rationale, but I think it's in practice. It can be

695
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:04,320
very problematic. Number one, because a Dex like Asterport or like Wind, they are not the chain.

696
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:12,880
They are a smart contract system lying on top of the chain. So any off chain auction that these kind

697
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:22,480
of Dexes participate in, it can actually be front run by something like Skip Select, which runs on

698
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:32,800
Juno and other chains, right? So it isn't necessarily efficient or even possible to do these off chain

699
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,360
auctions in the way that is currently being presented today.

700
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:48,080
Okay. But I guess also my question was, is there a, I guess that actually the answer to my question

701
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,240
is quite straightforward, which is probably not unless you run a modified binary that you've

702
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:58,320
modified yourself as a validator actually, which looks in the mempool. So there's actually, I

703
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:03,680
think there because of the atomistic you're talking about, there actually isn't a way that I can

704
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,160
think of straight off the top of my head necessarily that you could actually upset the, if you as

705
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:13,360
long as you can calculate a reasonable bound for what the ARB opportunity is, as long as you package

706
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,800
the transactions together, I think you're quite hard to front run in Cosmos is my feeling. But

707
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:24,800
I'm wondering if there is a scenario where there is a vector where somebody could be, could see

708
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,680
that there is, oh, there's, let's say, you know, it's successful and there's like a significant

709
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,360
amount of volume, you know, is there an incentive for somebody to basically come up with that solution

710
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,920
that is actually able to front run it? I can't think of how they could be because

711
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:42,800
like when you package transactions, they have to go through it together or they don't go through

712
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:47,680
it all. So if you're already rebalancing your own unbalance, then there's not really any

713
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:53,840
opportunity for someone else to sandwich trade you. Yeah, even MEV.

714
00:41:53,840 --> 00:42:00,720
Yeah. And that's by design, right? It would be very, if that design gets changed, it would be

715
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:06,800
very much like saying, oh, well, we just don't want Redpoint to exist in this ecosystem. So

716
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:14,720
like we invented a new way to prevent it that that in my mind would kind of be like

717
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:22,720
along those lines. But at present, I think, and this is why we kind of designed Redpoint this way,

718
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:30,000
it should be like that. There should be a way for a DEX like Ash report or whoever is designing

719
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:36,480
their own solutions to say like, I want these things to run as a unit, whether that's MEV or

720
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:42,240
not, it doesn't have to be, but I like the current design of the SDK being like that.

721
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:50,880
And going back to the topic of like on chain versus off chain auctions, like if you're a

722
00:42:50,880 --> 00:43:02,400
DEX like Ash report, you can't really run this off chain auction effectively, which is my argument

723
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:08,800
for why it's problematic is because any searchers that participate in this off chain auction don't

724
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:14,880
actually know which transactions and what order they will be in the blocks that they're actually

725
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:20,800
betting on, right? Because it's an off chain auction, let's say the chain gets really busy on

726
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:27,040
Terra or any other place where an auction like this ran, how do you actually know the ordering

727
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:32,160
or even amount of transactions that will eventually end up in the block here? It's really just guess

728
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:40,720
work. So I think anyone who enters into this kind of auction scenario off chain is going to have

729
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:48,000
kind of, they're going to run into problems as we get to a bull market or a busier market where

730
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:54,160
searchers start underbidding because the searchers aren't actually sure like about the accuracy of

731
00:43:54,160 --> 00:44:01,600
their estimates. That makes sense. I think that was the end of my questions. I mean,

732
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:07,520
I'm not the DeFi guy here, right? That's about as clever as I can pretend to look for as long as

733
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:13,280
I can pretend to look like it. I know what I'm doing. I don't think we have a DeFi guy with

734
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:19,280
DGEN guys. We're like fucking 4 DGENs and that's it. Yeah, it's kind of weird position too because

735
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:24,400
your market is almost the customer as opposed to the exchange itself, which I think is fairly

736
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:30,240
unique, right? There's almost an argument to be made that one thing you could do is create this

737
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:35,920
as an API for users and for them to use it, let's say you get 10% of the ARB that they get out of

738
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:41,200
using it, right? It's a pretty unique value proposition in my opinion. I feel like the exchange

739
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:47,920
is a customer as well because it's a good draw card for customers if you have that functionality.

740
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:54,640
I can say that the very first tool that released was called Defiant Swap and it was kind of targeted

741
00:44:54,640 --> 00:45:00,400
at users where a user could use in a CLI in their ledger. They could just do a swap and they would

742
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,960
get that arbitrage back themselves as long as they had enough of the asset to do the arbitrage.

743
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:11,600
Kyle, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original proposal that got put onto

744
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:17,120
Astroport was actually favored very heavily towards the users where it's like, hey, the users should

745
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:22,320
get most of the rewards. They're the ones who did the swap. They should be getting at least 80%

746
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:29,360
of the arbitrage returned, but it seems like the community in general that are able to influence

747
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:34,960
this decision feel like it should be balanced differently. The fucking community, the biggest

748
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:44,880
DGNs of all, hey? Yeah, and Dan, the proposal that was put on Astroport basically just called out

749
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:52,880
the fact that the Astroport community can choose how much money goes back to the users as a percentage.

750
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,920
It didn't specify what percentage should go back to the user, but I agree with you that the Astroport

751
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:03,760
community did not seem interested in returning a percentage of that to the user. So is that

752
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:14,800
like a param? So it's part of the smart contract system. So for basically the proposal to Astroport

753
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:23,920
and the proposal we're making to other DEXs is you can use our API offline, right? Or sorry,

754
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:31,840
off chain, I mean, and queer API, and then you can submit the trades with our smart contract

755
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:38,480
on chain. So like on Terra and on Juno, we'll have a smart contract. We actually already have a smart

756
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:46,480
contract, which was for JunoSwap, which we obviously know is now basically gone. But anyway,

757
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:52,880
you can submit the actual trades to that smart contract and it will divvy up the funds in the

758
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:59,600
way that you want. So it could send 80% to one address and 20% to another address. So that's

759
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:06,880
basically the concept. Yeah, okay. That's cool. Well, yeah, I'm out of questions. I'm exhausted on

760
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:13,360
questions unless anyone else has any. The only other thing I'll say that I didn't say about Defiant

761
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:19,600
as a whole is what you guys do. We run a lot of validators and actually have a fun story I can tell

762
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:26,320
you guys about today. I didn't even... So I also work at Strangelove, right? And we have some great

763
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:31,440
mechanisms in place there for like notifying us of like when chain upgrades happen. And Strangelove

764
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:38,320
does not validate on Kujira, but Defiant Labs does. So I totally missed the Kujira update today.

765
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,640
I started seeing some alerts on my Discord bot. I was like, oh, why was my Kujira in there down?

766
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,560
Hopped in the Discord. Saw that they did an update. I was like, oh, shit, I got to really quickly

767
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:52,960
build a new image. And man, it was a nightmare. Something with the new build process, they weren't

768
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:58,400
supporting cross architecture builds. I usually build stuff. So I'll work on both ARM and AMD.

769
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:03,680
So I had to like completely rewrite my Docker file so that it only builds on AMD64, get rid of all

770
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:10,000
the Alpine stuff in there. And now it made the Docker image go from like 160 megs to three gigs.

771
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:15,680
So now everything's taking longer to start up. And like, I was down for probably about two hours.

772
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,280
I was like, man, I'm going to have to bail on Game of Nodes if I can't get this working.

773
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:25,360
But luckily I'm here. Wow, you are one of the few in the proud that run Cosmos on Docker.

774
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,840
I've only heard of a couple you got like, Ecosake and now Defiant Labs. That's all you got.

775
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,440
Well, Strangest Lab does too. We both run fully in Kubernetes.

776
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,280
Yeah, it's all paid.

777
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,120
It doesn't run Docker, it runs Kubernetes.

778
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:38,720
Right. Got it, got it, got it, got it.

779
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:42,240
Yeah, including Horcrux and the whole situation. It's all orchestrated.

780
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:47,840
Yep, definitely. So what's the, what's your GCP or are you self hosted?

781
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,640
Are you self hosted Kubernetes platform that you deployed yourself?

782
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:57,040
Yeah, I am on a GCP. I've also tried out these same like scripts that I have on AWS just to

783
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,480
make sure that if something happened to Google that I'd be able to migrate very quickly.

784
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,800
But yeah, as you know, Kubernetes is Kubernetes in most places and it's pretty easy to

785
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:06,480
redeploy if you have to.

786
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,360
What's the, tell us about the Strangest Lab alerting on upgrades because that's,

787
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,320
we were just actually talking about this today because Todd,

788
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:19,040
front of the show was talking about like building a way to be able to create meeting requests and

789
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,720
actually put it in the calendar for like, you know, knowing that when upgrades are going and like

790
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:25,200
having some, some to do's around it. Tell us a little bit about that.

791
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:30,240
So I don't know if you can, you can build this because we basically have this cool guy at Strangest

792
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:36,320
Lab named Jay. He's kind of like helps us out with this. So Jay will hop around all the Discord

793
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:41,760
channels to watch the Polkotu interchange watcher. He just like every day looks on there.

794
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,240
He's like, is there something significant happening this week? Then he updates a shared

795
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:48,160
calendar for all of us on the engineering team.

796
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:48,720
Oh, okay.

797
00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:53,120
And so like what happens for us is we see on our calendars that there's an upgrade.

798
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,040
And then if we want to like do the upgrade, like if it's say like,

799
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,600
I want to do the next upgrade, I would just like tag myself as an assignee on that event.

800
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:02,560
And then I would take care of it.

801
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,400
She's publicize as an ICS as a shared calendar externally.

802
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,000
That's a good idea. I'll reach out to us straight about that.

803
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,680
New AppChine, one that shares upgrades. That's all it does.

804
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:14,160
Yeah, that's it.

805
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,760
That's a whole chain.

806
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:16,640
Exactly.

807
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,240
One of those chains.

808
00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:18,800
Yeah.

809
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:19,920
Couch chains.

810
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:27,360
Curiosity. I obviously, I'm known on this from this group self-flagellating by running on AWS

811
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:33,840
in terms of cost. How have you found GCP in terms of cost and also, you know,

812
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:40,720
the Kubernetes experience for Cosmos? Because we, although it will aggravate nullities,

813
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:46,880
the A word, over on the Aptos thing, we use Kubernetes and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

814
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:54,400
And it's expensive for various reasons, but Cosmos, it just, I don't know, kind of, we

815
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,480
started off trying to be super fancy and we've gradually migrated in the direction of

816
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,400
more kind of a bare metal type set up over time.

817
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,080
So I'm kind of curious about what's led you to keep that architecture.

818
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:13,680
Yeah. So basically, I chose this just based on past experience. It's definitely more expensive.

819
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:18,080
And I've actually talked to Schultz about this before. Right now, for Defiant, we run three

820
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:25,040
validators. We validate on Osmosis, Kujira, and Oden protocol. Plus we run the Sycamore tax app.

821
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:30,560
Plus we run the Redpoint API. And all of that right now costs us about $40 a day to run for

822
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:37,360
that. Our validator is very minimal right now. Our validator is one century. So there's no

823
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:43,280
high availability on our validator. But if we had to, we have it all like coded up and terraformed.

824
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:49,920
So if like a region went down or a zone went down, we can very quickly with a snapshot from Polkachu

825
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:54,160
and our scripts get back up in less than an hour on pretty much all chains.

826
00:51:54,160 --> 00:52:01,600
My man, you need to like ditch that shit and go bad metal, D-Gen, fucking, uh, I'll hook you up.

827
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:07,200
I'll tell you the cheapest way to run it. $40 a day or $40. Exactly.

828
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:13,120
I can get you that $40 for a fucking month. Before a year. $40 a year for a chain. Oh yeah.

829
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,480
Yeah. But the big deal for me is I really want to stay in.

830
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,200
I really want to stay in. The idea we add the generosity really fucking comes out.

831
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:25,200
And I'm more impressed with you holding on to Odin since I'm also an Odin validator. Boy,

832
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:31,680
boy, are you losing on that one, dude? Yeah. So actually, I just joined Odin about a month ago.

833
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,320
They said that they were looking to expand their Valset. And so I'm kind of, I've been just trying

834
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:40,720
it out. They gave us an official delegation. I think it was like 500,000 Odin or something like

835
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:45,440
that. I think that's what they give to everyone, I'm guessing. But yeah, so I'm on there. I've

836
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:50,320
only bought about 20 cents of Odin myself just to activate and then everything else is there.

837
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:57,440
So I'm sure that I have a fucking Genesis bag floating around somewhere that I just like delegated

838
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:04,400
to someone when I left and can no longer find. I actually had to unbond on Odin. Oh yeah.

839
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:11,040
Did you unbond? I had to. Yeah. My machine actually died. And since Odin doesn't support

840
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:16,720
multi-signers, I had to unbond in order to not be jailed. And I actually rebonded, I don't know,

841
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:24,160
a couple hours ago. So I was unbonded for like three days. Yeah, they have that sub 256 key

842
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,200
or whatever rate. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, the key structure. Yep. Tell me, how's development

843
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:34,560
going on Odin? Like, what are the prospects looking like over there, boys? So that sums it up. It's

844
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:39,200
quiet. It's quiet. It sums it up. It seems like there's not a lot of chain development happening.

845
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:45,040
They're doing things on the side. So like, they have a new wallet being developed for one.

846
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,000
And I know they have like, Wallace sounds right. Yeah.

847
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:57,600
Odin's the oracle one, right? That's correct. It's a fork of band. Yeah. Why the fuck do they

848
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:03,280
need? I think they pivot though. Why are we talking about Odin? I'm sorry. I don't know. I think

849
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,000
they've pivoted like two or three times. Yeah, I think they're trying to find they're trying to

850
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,800
find one of this because I thought there was a gaming thing too, because that was the other thing

851
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:16,560
that the founder had like gaming. No, no. No, that came before. That came before. So they had

852
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:21,360
like a geo, the original thing was geo. So they had like blockchain geo caching, right? I believe

853
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,760
is what it was. And so they've kind of integrated that into Odin. I think that's actually kind of

854
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:31,200
cool. Geocaching on on blockchain. Yeah, but that's just not contract use case. You're just like

855
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:39,040
geo matching. You mean storing two Geo JSON coordinates on a database. Oh, kill me with the

856
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:44,480
complexity of storing two JSON because it's literally like in in Geo JSON essentially what

857
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,720
it's been a long time since I've worked with Geo JSON, but I think it's literally a mutability

858
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:58,720
array. Yeah, two items you like. Oh my god. Hold on now. You can back up. All right. You can also

859
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:04,960
get the NFT if you get if like if you get like go to a Geocache, all right. Like that's kind of cool.

860
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,160
I enjoy that a lot. I don't know if you can actually do that on Odin, but I'm

861
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:14,480
yeah, I kind of wanted to do I wanted to do I've literally been too lazy to do this, but I

862
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,880
I worked out how it like it's fucking trivial to do as far as I can tell. The big problem is

863
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:25,040
basically lining up with a base map, which was the fucking bane of my life when I used to do

864
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:30,560
administrative geography on British government stuff because nothing of a fucking excuse me.

865
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:36,560
Can we unpack that? Yeah, I didn't know you work on base maps, man. I worked at Esri for

866
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:43,680
six or years or so. I actually wrote their JSON schema for all their mapping. So like everything

867
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:50,000
the reason why you can take maps from like mobile to desktop to web is basically because of me.

868
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:57,280
Hold on. Back it up even further. I worked at Ram McNally 30 30 years ago, 30 years ago, digitizing

869
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:03,360
actual paper maps into digital layers that they're using from a CAD structure to be able to

870
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:08,400
recreate maps at any size. There you go. That's awesome. If it helps at all, I've extensively

871
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:16,480
used QGIS. So what the hell is that? QGIS. It's like if you've ever been to the Esri subreddit though.

872
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:21,760
Oh man. Esri is a crazy. That's a cool tool set, but it's like it's really not. I've done it a

873
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:27,600
couple of times and it was just like crazy. So I could then be like fine. It's in Jason now. I

874
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:34,640
don't have to give a fuck. Right. It is like man, GIS is fucking phenomenal when you leverage some

875
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:43,760
of the tools. It's like fucking phenomenal. The point was the thing I wanted to do was a DGen NFT

876
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:49,040
where, because obviously I'm a dickhead who likes riding bikes up hills. I wanted to do

877
00:56:52,000 --> 00:57:02,160
NFT. All you need is there's a file format called FIT, which is basically data from a GPS unit.

878
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:08,880
So you need to just parse that on a front end, essentially take the start and end point and

879
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:14,720
then the delta of the time you enter that on the GPS thing where it's taking whatever,

880
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:22,160
like several sample every 100 to the second. And then you can get a time from top to bottom and

881
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:27,680
then you can store that on chain and then in an NFT. I mean, that'd be kind of cool. Stravan needs

882
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:34,320
something to disrupt them. They have no competition really. Yeah. This would be like,

883
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:39,120
okay, it's not quite a piece of piss. It's actually like maybe a month's worth of work,

884
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:44,560
which is why current circumstances I don't have the time to do it. But yeah, it was,

885
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:52,720
I originally started coding something for the original Hack Juno and then got distracted with

886
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:58,240
various other things that were frankly much higher priority. So there's some code in the

887
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:05,040
Never Never pile at the moment for that one. Somebody did launch something on Terra though, similar,

888
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:11,760
but I think it died. Do they only have location data or do they also have things like heart rate

889
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:21,920
and like that kind of stuff? Oh yeah. Anything that you have recorded from whatever the sensor

890
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:28,480
array is to whatever the recording unit is. So that all of the different sensors talk Bluetooth

891
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:34,400
or AMT plus to the recording unit and then the recording unit compiles the fit file.

892
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,200
Which is just one of the many formats. I think there's actually several formats

893
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,840
that are kind of similar. But I think FIT is the one that I know of.

894
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:53,840
Okay. Yeah, I've seen GPX a lot as well too. Yeah, GPX is the base map plus overlay. So

895
00:58:54,560 --> 00:59:02,560
the GPX file is the one that also has direct, no, it doesn't have directions. It's just a mapping

896
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:09,040
of start to end point. And then there's a separate format for like, oh, to get from the start to end

897
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:14,320
point, you have to go left, right, left, left, right, right, left, right, left, right, whatever,

898
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:19,040
to get the whole way around the route that you've marked. That's why you need to pay

899
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:24,960
like a third party like Garmin or somebody some extra money because you have the base map and then

900
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:30,640
you have the whatever that thing's called the overlay with the directions. It's all quite

901
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:36,720
complicated actually. But like at the heart of it, you just want to like DJ and NFT. That bit's

902
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:41,120
quite simple. It's what it meant because it's just a it's just a JSON. And they're all fucking lines

903
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:46,240
as well on roads. Although I guess, you know, people like Highlander that do mountain biking,

904
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:50,720
that's probably mountain biker too. It's probably more complicated.

905
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,560
That puts a fear in me mountain biking because it'd be like a big wiggly, a wiggly guy.

906
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:02,080
I've tried mountain biking and I'm too much of a weenie. I'm like that's just come at me real

907
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:08,160
fast. You get used to it. I really enjoy like riding like off road things and recording them

908
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:12,640
and then going on to something like open street maps and uploading the trails. And then like you

909
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:17,760
can like, if you do that, you can often pick the name of the trails. So I thought it might be kind

910
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,840
of cool to like have some fun trolling there, picking some funny names so that when people are

911
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:29,280
like on the Strava like the fuck is this? Yeah, you can name the segments as well if you're the

912
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:36,880
first one to define them. Yeah, that's awesome. What's this DGEN trail? Yeah, what's Big Balls

913
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:44,320
Blackchain Trail? Where does this thing go? Big Balls Way. Yeah, this place is in the world where

914
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:50,880
there's like 10,000 Strava athletes and they're all competing for every like inch of everything

915
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:55,040
and you're not going to find a segment you can make them. If you're like, yeah, if you go like

916
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,280
some, I was with some friends a couple of years ago in like a really rural bit of France where

917
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,760
there was a road to literally an abandoned village and then at the abandoned village it was a dead

918
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:10,320
end. You're like, name away because there are not many Strava athletes here. Except for, I think

919
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:15,200
it was like Lily, is it Lily and Carmejan, the rider I'm thinking of? There's somebody on Azure

920
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:20,800
Dezer, Citron, who lives in that area and it was just like one of those where there's these random

921
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,760
hills with like, this has been ridden by 10 people and the person who got the quickest time was 10

922
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:30,640
minutes quicker than everybody else and is a world tour rider. It's just like this guy who just lives

923
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:35,440
in that part of France and is like, well, I guess I ride up everything. That's what I do. And that's why I'm...

924
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:41,120
Connect the, like for example, like when you're biking and generating fit data, if you could connect

925
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:46,000
that to like geocasting on the blockchain, right? It's like, almost you have to like do this event

926
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,240
in the real world on a bike in order to unlock something. Right? That's what I'm saying. Wouldn't

927
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,840
that be friggin' cool? I'd be all about that. I mean, it's sucking hard.

928
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,000
It's linked the two up. Like the only different, the only problem you'll have is that, I mean,

929
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:02,480
I guess you guys know this because you work with geodata is that the recording is always a bit

930
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:06,720
fucked. So you kind of need a little bit of fuzziness. And that's the bit where you need like

931
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:12,640
some off-chain stuff to go like, like Elasticsearch GeoSearch is really good for that, actually.

932
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:18,560
It's really good for just going like, is this roughly what I meant? And it's like, kind of,

933
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:25,440
you're like, they match. Chalk it up as a match. Like, that's why there's the big report button

934
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:30,720
on Strava because the chalk it up as a match is definitely what Strava does behind the scenes

935
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,800
with Elasticsearch. I don't think they even do that much. I mean, there's been times whenever

936
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:39,600
I actually left my Strava on and like drove like 20 miles and they were like, wow,

937
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:45,360
you got so many KOMs. You are so good. And I was like, oh, Jesus. You know, there's a whole

938
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:50,800
twerking after that. There's somebody made somebody made a bot that just watches the watches Strava

939
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:58,880
for like public public runs or rides, I think that are over a certain miles per hour. And

940
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:04,320
they just like post a sarcastic comment like, this guy's going like a train. And it's like,

941
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,320
there's just like somebody getting on the train in Brussels and they're going to Paris. And it's

942
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:12,640
obviously just the high speed train. Well, you'd imagine that Strava would be like, okay,

943
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:17,200
so this is over 20 miles per hour. I'm just going to like, I mean, not 20 because I can hit like

944
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:22,000
50 going downhill on my bike, but like, come on now. This person's been doing.

945
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,360
That's a fast man. I'm afraid to go 50 miles per hour.

946
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:31,520
Yeah, I think the quickest I've ever done is 82 kilometers an hour. So

947
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:39,680
fucking fast, man. Yeah, it was with the tailwind on a plateau up in the north in the mountains.

948
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:44,400
But it was, it was that that was like, when you see the people like in the professionals,

949
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:48,240
where they're doing like 95 kilometers an hour downhill, you're like, literally,

950
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,560
I did on a well maintained bike on a reasonable road surface and it felt like the thing was going

951
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:58,240
to shake itself pieces and take off into the air. Yeah, it was terrifying. Those teams have chase

952
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:04,080
teams and they have 25 bikes and like 100 engineers. It's just you and your balls on that fucking bike.

953
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:09,600
Like something exact same situation, right? There's like 100 people looking at them

954
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,480
that bike to make sure it's fine. You're just like, that's good. These guys do it.

955
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:18,640
No problem. I had just gotten the, what are the arrow bars and I just got a new carbon bike.

956
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:23,120
So I was like, Oh yeah, there's like a 21% grade hill near Rylev that goes for about a

957
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:28,880
mile. And I was like, I'm doing it. I'm going to do it. Perfect. And so I did. And yeah,

958
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:33,600
I hit like 15 miles per hour. Has anyone ever witnessed the Superman on a

959
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:39,600
bicycle? Nice person. What? You mean like we put your chest on the seat and like put your legs

960
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:46,880
on everything? Yeah, I've seen it like when I was younger. It reduces your surface areas so much.

961
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:52,720
Oh yeah. Like go faster downhill than people pedaling. You hit like a pothole though. Like

962
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:58,640
you really Superman there. Was that in Le Mans or not Le Mans? Whatever it was.

963
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:04,720
Yeah, it's been banned now. It's been banned. That's actually been. I reckon if you've got

964
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:12,320
the balls to do a fucking Superman, you deserve it. Exactly. No, they, if you even do a version

965
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:17,600
of it where you keep your hands on the tops and you put your, and then you put your wrists on the

966
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:23,680
tops and then you put your hands down and then kind of, essentially like if you take your bum

967
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:30,000
off the seat now and your hands are not in the standard position, Dave, I think the fine is

968
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:36,240
some bullshit. It's like 500 Swiss francs. Like memory gives a fuck. But they can take off the,

969
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:41,840
they obviously can dock you your position. They can dequeue you from that day or dequeue you from

970
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:47,680
stage racing. So what about where they like, you know, they slide forward onto the little bar

971
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:54,880
and like, yeah, that's immediate qualification. Yeah, that's super tuck. I've, I've, I've, I,

972
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,320
occasionally do the super tuck and it is that is terrifying.

973
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:03,680
It looks terrifying. It looks like you have zero fucking control over that thing when you do that.

974
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:09,280
You don't have as much control now. It is, it is fucking fast though. Like if you have,

975
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:13,760
if you have like a bit of a tailwind, it's quite a calm day and you're confident in the road surface

976
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:19,840
if it's not like good sight lines and you, you don't mind just being like any car behind me has to

977
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:26,880
just go fuck themselves. You can kind of super tuck and people, yeah. People just want to suck

978
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:31,840
as a psychopath. It's, it's great. Oh, who is this man and what the fuck is he doing?

979
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:37,360
But then what you find is this, it's super efficient for a certain type of hill that

980
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:44,480
is, is like the French, Swiss and Italian mountains. Like if you're, if your hill is only two, two

981
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:49,920
kilometers, it's probably more efficient a lot of the time at actually just to fucking pedal in the

982
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:55,280
big ring or like, sure, see if you've got aero bars and your balls genuinely are so swollen that

983
01:06:55,280 --> 01:07:01,280
you will go on the aero bars downhill, which I used to have on aero bars on my commuter slash

984
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:07,040
touring bike. And I think I once went downhill on the aero bars and I was like, no, like,

985
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:11,600
another person that would do a super tuck, right? I was like, no, never, never. It's too terrifying.

986
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:18,880
It's just you're like arms outstretched. You're not too, too insane, too insane.

987
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:28,400
So anyway, back to our guests, Dan. So I'm curious, how much of the chains did you end up

988
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:38,080
getting indexed? Yeah, so far it's just osmosis. We've indexed all of 2022. We just realized

989
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:42,400
that we're missing a couple of months of the super fluid rewards. So we're going back and

990
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:48,320
we're fixing that right now. And then we want to try to get all the, it's a little hard because

991
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:53,360
osmosis, maybe Kyle can explain this part better, but like the message types kind of

992
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:57,680
change over time. So like the indexer that's capable of like indexing blocks that are happening now,

993
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:03,920
it might be like different like messages like create balancer pool or swap exact amount in,

994
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:07,280
like they kind of change over time. Kyle, can you elaborate on that a little bit?

995
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:12,800
Yeah, you pretty much have it exactly right. Like some of the, some of the message types

996
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:20,800
have changed and they get removed from the SDK. So for external client tools, like the

997
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:29,040
like the text tool that we made that impacts us. I think the osmosis team to be fair is very

998
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:34,240
aware of this now. So I don't know that they'll be doing that in the future. They'll probably like

999
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:38,880
version, like if there's a new version of message create balancer pool or whatever,

1000
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:45,920
they'll probably version it and leave it in the SDK. And we did find a solution which is basically to

1001
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:52,800
make folders in your client tooling with the custom codecs and then register them with the SDK. So

1002
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:59,440
it's not like it's an impossible hurdle, but not a lot of teams probably know how to know how to

1003
01:08:59,440 --> 01:09:05,680
do that or have done it before. But, but yeah, there's been some challenges, but the software is

1004
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:11,920
pretty stable now. Like Dan said, we're just going back and making sure we have all of the

1005
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:19,840
we have all of the osmosis rewards indexed. That's also been challenging because there's not a ton

1006
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:25,600
of archive nodes out there that actually have all that rewards data archived. And of those nodes,

1007
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:30,000
a lot of them don't have, there's like specific settings you have to have to be able to grab

1008
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:37,040
those, those rewards from the blocks. Yeah, I'll say because this is a validator podcast,

1009
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,040
we should geek out on that part a little bit more. So there's a setting in your config Tomel

1010
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:47,120
called broadcast TX timeout. And by default, it's set for 10 seconds. So if you're not able to query

1011
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:51,360
the data that you want within 10 seconds, you're going to get an EOF is going to end a file you

1012
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:55,760
and cut you off. And that's what we were noticing a lot when we were indexing some of these like

1013
01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:01,600
huge epoch epoch blocks that happen once a day in osmosis. So we ended up adjusting that setting

1014
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:06,640
to something ridiculous like 10 minutes. And then we realized, Hey, there's like a bazillion other

1015
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:12,160
transactions that are now available because we increased this time out. So is this this isn't

1016
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:19,200
for so this is more like RPC archive node operators, right? Not not validators like that

1017
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:24,080
that time out is specifically for when you're querying the the RPC or the API. Yeah, it's when

1018
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:28,160
you're querying the RPC for the epoch rewards. So even if you're not an archive node, and you just

1019
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:32,480
want to know like the details of the last epoch, you will probably need to like make that setting

1020
01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:40,160
to be able to pull all the data down. Thank you. Yeah. So answer your question. Just osmosis,

1021
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:45,840
but we definitely want to expand other chains. So we think it'll be pretty easy to expand to

1022
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:51,520
chains that are very similar to like osmosis that just have like the normal staking module,

1023
01:10:51,520 --> 01:11:00,080
the bank, the gov, the Aussie, but other chains that have custom cosmos modules, like for example,

1024
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:04,400
the Kujira oracle module, like that's something that we would have to like do custom software for,

1025
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:08,720
or anything that like involves like a message execute contract that adds a whole another level

1026
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:13,360
of complexity where we have to parse the contract, figure out what kind of transactions it's doing.

1027
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:19,680
Is your indexing like, have you written it entirely from scratch or is that originally

1028
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:27,360
based on like BD Juno or? Kyle, you want to take that one? Yep, it's written from scratch. Obviously,

1029
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:32,560
like it uses the tools that we could that were already out there, like the cosmos SDK and things

1030
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:39,120
like that. So we're for as far as like RPC connections and things like that, we use the

1031
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:46,880
cosmos tooling that was already available. As for parsing the actual messages, we do use the libraries

1032
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:54,080
in cosmos SDK as much as possible. But those mostly just give you access to like events and

1033
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:59,360
attributes and things like that. And then if you want to do any custom analytics or, you know,

1034
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:05,040
understand things in any way, you have to develop custom logic to do that. So that's what we've been

1035
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:11,840
doing at this point. We have we have a lot of code that we can reuse in the code base. Like so,

1036
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:18,800
for example, integrating something like Kujira would be a lot easier now than it would be

1037
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:25,360
like 10 months ago. Because a lot of these chains share the same type of events when they're doing

1038
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:31,840
things like coin received or coin sent. And even if you have a smart contract based event that happens,

1039
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:36,880
it typically follows certain patterns. So that does make it a little bit easier. And we've designed

1040
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:41,040
our code base around that. But when you're dealing with smart contracts, you never know,

1041
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:45,520
it's really up to the contract author how they want to structure things and, you know, what type

1042
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:53,600
of events get emitted and that sort of thing. So with the general modules, like, well, with

1043
01:12:53,600 --> 01:13:00,560
the data in general, like, how are you actually storing that in the database? Like, how are you

1044
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:08,320
translating the state into like database tables? Is it all like in one big table? Or is it like

1045
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:14,080
each module has a table? Like, I'm not into those types of things. I don't understand how that really

1046
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:21,280
works. Yeah. So I come from a kind of probably typical computer science background. So I have a

1047
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:30,560
lot of experience with relational databases. So basically, we tried to model it out as like blocks,

1048
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:37,360
blockchains. Everything has a separate table, essentially. And when you come when it comes

1049
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:45,280
down to the actual taxable data, I think the two models we generally used were taxable events and

1050
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:51,280
taxable transactions. And then within a taxable transaction, you have another table for like

1051
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:59,440
messages. So everything's kind of modeled the same way as the SDK models it. But we did follow

1052
01:13:59,440 --> 01:14:05,680
relation like best practices with relational patterns. So like, if we wanted to do different

1053
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:10,640
lookups on that data in the future, like maybe when want to follow the money of one specific

1054
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:16,960
account around, it should be pretty easy to design SQL queries to do that. So if somebody wants to

1055
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:22,000
take the product that we created, which is open source, by the way, and they want to target it

1056
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:28,400
more around general analytics or just anything other than tax data, they should be able to do that.

1057
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,640
I mean, there's quite a big, there's a lot of talk about better

1058
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:40,080
Cosmoise and indexing as well. So that's kind of the obvious one, I suppose, if there's and

1059
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:47,040
obviously a multiple indexing solutions and have had various of them had various of a cracker there.

1060
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:52,000
I suspect the problem, the problem is as much availability as data, like you guys kind of hinted

1061
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:59,840
at. I don't think there's any like one, you know, one, one to rule them all in indexes,

1062
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:05,760
is it because everything's like quite bespoke now. You've got the SDK modules, but then anything

1063
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:11,680
like Kyle was saying, anything extra on top of that, like a custom module or smart contracting

1064
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:19,440
all becomes sort of bespoke indexing from there. So yeah, well, in addition, if the events that

1065
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:25,040
you want aren't exposed at the time you need them, you have to just go look directly in the state

1066
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:30,480
of the chain, which is what the the Dowdow guys have done. That's their solution, isn't it,

1067
01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:36,480
to run a custom binary. So previously, like I tried to get some information back when Dowdow

1068
01:15:36,480 --> 01:15:41,280
first launched, I was trying to get some information out of one of the Dow contracts,

1069
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,400
right, it was like some staking information for someone who's just out of curiosity because

1070
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:49,680
someone had asked a question in a discord and I went down the rabbit hole of trying to like

1071
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:55,840
figure out what they were asking. And the only way to get it was to dump the state and decode

1072
01:15:55,840 --> 01:16:02,160
everything and then yeah, and that's how each block is like, index now, I think they literally

1073
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:09,280
run they run an RPC with a modified binary. Each block, it shoves it into a postgres.

1074
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:14,560
All right. Yeah, well, it was a huge pain in the ass getting that out. Like it was

1075
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:21,920
a fucking pain in the ass for me anyway, being a retard. I was going to ask, can you also do

1076
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:28,160
there's a role contract state query, I believe for Cosmosm as well, can you get some of that

1077
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:34,000
information with that with that query? Oh, sorry, what was that query with which one? I believe

1078
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:39,280
there's a role for Cosmosm, I believe there's like a role contract state query you can run.

1079
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:44,640
Yeah, that was the one. It was just like a state dump. Oh, yeah, that just dumps the whole thing.

1080
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:50,400
Is it paginated or not? I can't remember. I can't remember, but it was like all encoded and you

1081
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:55,600
had to like unencode each bit and they were encoded in different ways. And it was, yeah,

1082
01:16:55,600 --> 01:17:00,720
it was fucked. That's not too bad. So we had to do that for the howl drop, like just dump the,

1083
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:07,440
so the raw state from memory is, I think it is paginated because it's quite hard to get the

1084
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:14,720
whole thing. So I think you, Serpa actually ended up just dumping the chain state in full

1085
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:20,320
for us, maybe. Somebody, maybe it was you now. It was one of the games that's through.

1086
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:25,120
Yeah, I got it done for you. Yeah. You just dumped the whole chain state because the CLI

1087
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:30,400
version wasn't giving us everything we needed. So I think you just did a full dump and then,

1088
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:36,160
obviously, you then just go because it's just JSON, you just grab the smart contract you're

1089
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:43,680
after and then throw it into a data pipeline and rust and just let it do its thing. But it was, yeah.

1090
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:48,720
I do remember doing that, but now I have the question of why the fuck do you just do it yourself?

1091
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:54,080
Do you not have a validator? It's gonna be fucked really. Yeah, I don't help anybody.

1092
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:58,000
I don't help anybody. You got anything to do because I can't fucking do this.

1093
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:03,440
It definitely wasn't me. I think joking aside, it was a time when we were fucking around

1094
01:18:03,440 --> 01:18:10,800
moving the node onto TMKMS and stuff and it was just like, I don't want to turn

1095
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:15,840
shit off or fuck around with that sports anything in case this shit doesn't turn back on because

1096
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:20,800
I don't trust it. Yeah, I think I remember. I think you were like, do you have a node you can turn

1097
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:26,720
off? And I was like, yeah. Yeah, because it was big. Did you know dumps are quite big, aren't they?

1098
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:32,480
No, it takes a fair while as well. It takes like a good 10 or 15 minutes to actually dump it.

1099
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:36,320
Would you remember in the first cyber attack, one of the things that took the longest actually

1100
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:41,440
in the restoration of the chain was that we needed multiple dumps to see the block before

1101
01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:46,960
the problem, the block of the problem, and then the one where consensus failed and just getting

1102
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:52,800
each block initially, like getting a dump at that block just took fucking ages for a full block

1103
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:57,760
from the archive node. Yeah, it takes a long time to dump sometimes. And sometimes you get,

1104
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:03,200
so I remember that someone was trying to get a dump from me for something I can't remember

1105
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:08,640
who it was or what it was for, but it kept EOM. EOMing, like, it's just the dump was so hard

1106
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:14,880
on the RAM. Like I had 128 gigs of RAM on this thing and like out of memory, fucking just trying

1107
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:20,160
to do a state dump. So I think that was me. I think I was asking for a dump for a cosmos

1108
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:26,400
endpoint. And you were like, yeah, I can't do it. Can't do it. Honestly, I don't know why people

1109
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:32,560
keep asking me for dumps. Is there's just a group somewhere where people are like, need a dump?

1110
01:19:33,440 --> 01:19:42,640
Go this guy. Go to this guy. No, I worked. So, okay, okay. Also, I'm saying I'm looking at the

1111
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:49,760
clock. We've got limited amount of time with our guests. The next o'clock? Run it down. Run it down.

1112
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:56,320
Yeah. So I was saying to you, Sir Peralia, that I was jealous of the cool clock he has in the

1113
01:19:56,320 --> 01:20:01,760
background. My UTC clock. I kind of want to get a cool clock for the background. But the problem

1114
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:06,080
is where would I put it? Like in the pocket of the cycling jet? Like where? There's no fucking

1115
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:11,600
specific. You'd have to rearrange that pile of garbage you have behind you. That's the fucking

1116
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:17,680
bike seat. Laundry and racks of shit that's... This is not laundry. These are all clean clothes.

1117
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:23,440
It's over. Yeah. Why do you hang them like laundry? For some reason, that's the way you do

1118
01:20:23,440 --> 01:20:28,080
biking jerseys. I think every single biking jersey I've seen is hung up like that. Yeah.

1119
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:32,080
Yeah, you just wash them and you throw them. Throwing over shit. It's a big... Yeah. I mean,

1120
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:35,440
you get the Marshall. You get that. I see a Marshall back there, but it's not in frame. Then you have

1121
01:20:35,440 --> 01:20:40,240
like... Yeah, there's a nice boogie down here. What's behind you? What's the little black thing

1122
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:46,160
sticking up? Is that like a rack that's not doing anything? Either side? I hope my other side.

1123
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:51,520
The other side. Other shoulder. It looks like an amp back there. So other side. Other side.

1124
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:54,400
Next to your bikes. Yeah. That's a Marshall, right? That's what that is. Yeah, there's a

1125
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:59,600
Marshall half stack. But what's behind you though? What's that thing? Those are bikes back there.

1126
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:03,360
Is that a bike? Those are like marching bikes for... Aren't you an addict? What do you bring that

1127
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:07,200
thing down three flights of stairs? They're trainers, right? Yeah. When I'm going outside.

1128
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:11,600
Yeah. That's my race. That's my race bike. In the US, they sing it's called garages.

1129
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:15,360
Well, yeah, I clearly don't have a garage. So...

1130
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:22,240
So I like that. Check out my trainer. Is it showing? What's that? Oh, yeah.

1131
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:26,720
Yeah, I can see. Oh, yeah, look at that. A garage. Yeah, I got a mountain bike on a TACX NEO,

1132
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:29,440
which is like the greatest trainer ever. I don't know if you guys have seen those,

1133
01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:35,040
but they can actually simulate like the surface that you're on. So if you're like riding in Zwift,

1134
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:39,440
which is like a virtual way to ride. So like when you pedal, your avatar in the game will ride.

1135
01:21:39,440 --> 01:21:43,840
If you go over pedals or like pebbles, the trainer itself will like simulate that you're

1136
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:48,560
riding on wooden planks, pebbles by like shaking your chain. So it feels like you're really

1137
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:52,480
on a tactile surface. Is that actually good? That's interesting.

1138
01:21:52,480 --> 01:21:57,200
Dan, I should add you onto it. I use it too. Okay. Yeah, cool. Sure. I'll shoot you.

1139
01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:01,920
This is... Oh, this has got peak fucking. No, it says that now. It's just like...

1140
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:03,440
Exactly. It's a two wheels Zwift.

1141
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:07,680
Yeah. Game of chains, three-bride. Cool.

1142
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:09,280
So I gave it a nudes.

1143
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:16,480
Yeah. You could add us some Zwift. The Game of Nodes Fag Club.

1144
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:20,720
One third of this stream has keyboards in the background.

1145
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,760
Oh yeah. I used to play the piano a while ago. Yeah.

1146
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,800
Piano and bikes. Where's the...

1147
01:22:27,440 --> 01:22:29,680
In laundry. One third. Oh yeah. Two.

1148
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:33,680
How much whiskey have you had tonight?

1149
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:37,520
I like when Noel drinks on the stream. This is the new thing,

1150
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:39,680
because he's actually in the right time zone.

1151
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:43,280
You know, yeah. This is the first time I've actually had any liquor on the stream.

1152
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:44,080
How... Is it better?

1153
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:47,600
Yeah. I mean, not drinking.

1154
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:52,640
Boys will be boys.

1155
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:59,520
I do love how the phrase said, oh, the time's running out. Let's pay more attention to our

1156
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:04,320
guests and then immediately started talking about jerseys and fucking keyboards.

1157
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:07,200
I'm pretty sure I was on the same... I'm enjoying the conversation.

1158
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:12,240
Anyway, anyway, I feel like we also have some quick points of order, which probably...

1159
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:13,280
Oh yeah. Let's do it.

1160
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:17,360
So like, we're going to talk about comfy... Maybe we should get...

1161
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:21,360
Cause less harm on to talk about comfy down at some point or just drop in.

1162
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:21,840
Yeah. We can do that.

1163
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:23,280
Yeah. We can do that.

1164
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:25,360
He was on earlier. So maybe he'll join now.

1165
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:27,680
There was four...

1166
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:30,000
Like four... Four tombstones today.

1167
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:30,800
What's that?

1168
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:32,880
Four tombstones today on...

1169
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:34,560
Was there? No.

1170
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:35,920
Oh, yes.

1171
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:36,320
Main...

1172
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:38,160
No, Tessnet.

1173
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:40,560
Fuck it. They're not on Mainnet. It's just the Tessnet.

1174
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:41,040
Atlantic Tombstone.

1175
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:41,840
Wait. So, Atlantic Tombstone.

1176
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:43,600
Two. There was four. There was four?

1177
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:47,040
Yeah. Three of them were like team nodes. And then who was the fourth?

1178
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:47,920
Shieldsie.

1179
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:51,920
Ooh. Noted real? No, it wasn't noted real. Hold on. Hold on. I'll look back.

1180
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:52,320
I didn't even...

1181
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:52,960
I didn't even...

1182
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:53,920
I didn't even mention the title either.

1183
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:54,560
Wait. It didn't...

1184
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:59,120
Nim Mainnet actually hold, but there weren't any tombstones when it resumed were there?

1185
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:03,360
Well, they're all run by Figment. The top four nodes were run by Figment.

1186
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,200
And Figment was like now really even Nim.

1187
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:09,200
And so they lost like 45% of the voting counter.

1188
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:10,480
How fucking hilarious is that?

1189
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:12,480
It's amazing.

1190
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:14,160
They didn't have like an unbonding period?

1191
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:14,640
Or they like...

1192
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:16,160
They didn't have like a cooldown period as well?

1193
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,640
They didn't unbond. They just fucking turned their shit off.

1194
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:24,080
Jesus. Like don't fucking delegate to Figment is the moral of that story.

1195
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:25,760
Christ. My prediction...

1196
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:26,720
So Figment is shutting down.

1197
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:28,160
What happens in that situation technically?

1198
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:28,320
Everywhere.

1199
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:32,080
You have to wait for like to get slashed to the point where it doesn't have voting power?

1200
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:33,360
They don't give a shit.

1201
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,240
I mean, we're on with like multiple different chains, right?

1202
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:37,360
Including Aptos and everything else.

1203
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:39,120
My guess is they're gone in this year.

1204
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:40,000
Like...

1205
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,360
They're leaving like so many chains. It's fucking amazing.

1206
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:46,480
I almost made a tweet because they keep doing the Twitter's like what we're leaving.

1207
01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:47,920
I almost made like a shitty tweet about it.

1208
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:50,320
Maybe you could just tweet like what you're staying on.

1209
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:51,360
Yeah, what you're saying.

1210
01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:53,760
Like maybe that would be easier.

1211
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:58,320
I reckon they're banging up against the character limit like putting all the networks in fucking labor.

1212
01:24:58,320 --> 01:24:58,800
Exactly.

1213
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:05,360
But like just from a note-ups perspective and everything else, like I think they're in trouble.

1214
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:06,720
Like it just seems like they're in trouble.

1215
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:09,840
I mean, I think they had the problem of funding, right?

1216
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:14,800
They received like what was it like two billion dollars of funding back in 2020.

1217
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,680
And they're like, okay, well, we should just hire all the people, right?

1218
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:19,680
And then they did and then...

1219
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:21,280
Wait, what? It must have been two billion...

1220
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:22,080
Two billion is...

1221
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:23,360
It can't be that much, right?

1222
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:24,320
Like...

1223
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:25,600
I mean, employees are expensive.

1224
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:26,880
They're not that expensive, right?

1225
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:29,040
Like, yeah, they're not doing that much.

1226
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:34,400
I don't know what they have on the investment side because I'm guessing they've lost a ton of money

1227
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:35,920
and just putting money into chains.

1228
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:37,680
Maybe they just had everything in FTX.

1229
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:38,960
They could.

1230
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:40,560
They could.

1231
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:46,000
Everything in FTX and then they had all the like cash cash in SVP and they're just like,

1232
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:51,040
well, we're going to get some cash back in four years time once this is all threshed out.

1233
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:52,560
And that's going to be way too late.

1234
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:56,400
Right. Or they have 300 million and like 300 bad bets, right?

1235
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:59,040
Like, or 30 bad bets or whatever.

1236
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:02,800
But whoever's running the node side of the house,

1237
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:05,200
like, they have really no...

1238
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:07,600
Like, it doesn't seem like it's a priority is what I would say.

1239
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:09,680
Whether or not they're good operators or not,

1240
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:15,120
but it doesn't seem like it's a priority and like, they're not really responding quickly.

1241
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:17,200
They're not understanding what's going on in specific chains.

1242
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:19,520
Like, it just seems like it's not a priority, I think, is what it is.

1243
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:21,600
And that's turning into other issues.

1244
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:23,200
Anyway.

1245
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:23,600
Yeah.

1246
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:24,400
Yeah.

1247
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:24,800
All right.

1248
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,160
I mean, I hadn't actually...

1249
01:26:28,160 --> 01:26:30,400
I thought that the reason that the NIM hot happened,

1250
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:31,760
I knew Figma were involved in some way.

1251
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:36,000
I thought it was because they were white labelling several nodes and they had...

1252
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:36,560
Yeah, exactly.

1253
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:36,720
Simultaneously.

1254
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:37,520
Yeah, exactly.

1255
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:39,120
No, they shut them all down.

1256
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:41,920
Simultaneously fuck them, but they deliberately left.

1257
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:42,880
That's actually what happened.

1258
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:46,880
They just stop validating.

1259
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:48,320
All the more baffling.

1260
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:48,560
Like...

1261
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:50,880
Assuming they just shut all those nodes down.

1262
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:51,440
Assuming.

1263
01:26:51,440 --> 01:26:52,000
Assuming.

1264
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:53,120
Assuming.

1265
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:55,760
And also, like, chains...

1266
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:57,840
I have no sympathy for chains that...

1267
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:23,840
who sponsor that shit.