0:00
until I have months of [ __ ] income from my validator so anyway it's [ __ ] camera working it's like so [ __ ]
0:06
annoying man I bought a goddamn Elgato [ __ ] yesterday and it didn't work I've gone through three [ __ ] cables
0:13
they don't work I've gone back to the USB it works but I'm pretty sure my battery my camera now is going to run
0:19
out before the end of this [ __ ] stream and is there a lag I feel like there's a [ __ ] yeah there's a lot of them from
0:25
here
0:34
oh foreign
0:41
welcome to game of nodes a weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent validated teams where we strive every
0:46
week to get demonetized before we even roll credits and this week we have a
0:52
friend of the podcast sisler from omniflex to come on and he's going to talk a little bit about media of Dao and
0:59
we have like and obviously uh null's got audio visual troubles as usual because
1:04
he's in kangaroo land and we've got probably we we sort of arranged for all the drama and the cosmos to happen about
1:11
four hours ago so that we would have a lot uh just knocked over something on the floor and that hopefully didn't come
1:16
through the mic um we've arranged for all the drama and the cosmos to happen about four hours ago so we'd have lots to talk about on
1:23
the show so we've we've got like a quite comedically large uh spreadsheet this
1:29
week um which is there's a spreadsheet it's been renamed to corporate goals and okrs now which
1:36
you would uh know if you've been on Twitter earlier today um I'm gonna I'm gonna kick off
1:41
um with the drill tweet of the week and then the second thing on the item on
1:46
the agenda which might have action items to follow up from it is I need to understand what
1:51
the [ __ ] this corporate business is all about but put a pin in that for a second um
1:57
okay drill tweet of the week and you could tell that I picked these randomly by how bad this one is
2:04
everyone always says that they would use x-ray goggles to look at women's asses and get horny and wild not me
2:11
I would use them to help doctors that's the drill tweet of the week
2:17
thanks very much okay so agenda fellas that might be the last week of this of
2:22
this segment yes you never know what you're going to get that's just like it's like you know
2:30
when you um you know when you flick through Leia Town USA and it's like you go to a page and just like custom bear
2:35
and it's just like [ __ ] you're like that's true that's a good point I should be fair that's the cussing bear joke
2:40
it's actually a really good one anyway uh lietownusa.tumblr.com if you know what I'm talking about
2:46
I don't even know if it still [ __ ] exists but there is a book you can get it off Amazon it's mad
2:52
um well time to go look that up yeah it's time to go look that up corporate if that corporate corporate
2:59
null corporate Rider what what the [ __ ] did I miss I was away like less than 48
3:04
hours as is my habit I was on a train I was traveling between two places I get
3:09
off the train everybody's corporate if you think we know what's going on then you've made an assumption that we can't
3:15
back up I have no I'm getting called out on Twitter for not being corporate enough I'm corporate we're all corporate
3:22
okay Rama posted one I liked it I thought that thing was [ __ ] cool and then I said it wasn't yellow enough
3:27
because it didn't have any Australia in it and then they meet then they got a rhino one I was like well I gotta add some Flair to this so then I
3:33
Photoshopped it up and then I got into a Photoshop War with soy was it soy I forget who I got
3:38
into Photoshop war with yeah I just escalate it and next thing I know here I am I have no idea how I got here it's just a fun meme it's all it is
3:48
just a fun name boys will be boys boys they do [ __ ] say that actually I have
3:54
heard uh it's tax season so they say they say a lot of that uh so is it next
4:00
season is it tax season now
4:07
no it's the worst bit of tax season it's the well well worst or best I mean as in
4:13
you know how you pay it you pay it now so it's the furthest distance between
4:19
you having to pay it but if you got it wrong now you're in trouble because you've just committed tax fraud
4:25
we still have another tax fraud or not I'm already feeling better because I'm like well it's about to be paid I have
4:31
some number that's being paid I can feel good I can breathe a little bit I know how much it's gonna be on my bank account at the end of this
4:37
tax board or not I feel better there you go Lisa numbers in right
4:43
that's all that matters exactly right wow
4:59
he's got all the ball with pictures okay so um so in conclusion I have no idea what
5:05
the corporate thing is turns out it just whatever man go back to sleep pray that's the answer yeah man it's just a
5:12
fun meme you're not missing out on anything except for being missing so so you you didn't all just get rich off a
5:17
corporate and a corporate and NFC we remain unfunded
5:26
so basically what you're saying is you came up with a dank meme that had traction and didn't link it to game of
5:33
nodes or monetize it or make nfts correct
5:38
yeah it kind of sounds like my influence in the room was needed
5:45
when you put it that way now I feel stupid it's like do you need you need like uh
5:52
Tom Cruise and Jeremy guides show me the money right our primary focus is to have fun getting
6:00
paid is secondary having fun what's that
6:05
yeah I haven't had fun since 1997. well you need to get out more buddy
6:11
get yourself a nice uh audio visual lag that's fun yeah you know you're like
6:17
you're like so big today Nelly you could probably get out and go walk about and then get back by the time it's finished
6:22
I can get bigger this is this is only half a zoom okay let me Zoom right in
6:28
that's enough I'll be comparing Zoom factors now that's that's uh it's not going to help
6:36
the people listening later on podcast players isn't for one thing so um I can chuck on my 17 millimeter lens you'll
6:41
probably be able to see behind my monitor oh you're on the uh you're on the fancy
6:46
camera you're on the DSLR yeah hence the lag and like yesterday afternoon me
6:52
putting holes on my wall trying to make it work and it didn't go well it's still
6:57
not going well it's cost me more money than I care to admit and
7:03
yeah I'm still not happy yeah obviously not happy now because there's this [ __ ] lag I got this I have a
7:11
like a capture card like a USB capture card and for the life of me I can't make it [ __ ] work if I go and I can plug
7:18
the [ __ ] into my TV and the the image comes out of my TV probably with lag but uh I just cannot seem to get it to
7:27
capture in this [ __ ] HDMI capture that is and he's got Discord opening who do you
7:34
think it is
7:46
because this is this is an unacceptable lack of professionalism
7:55
I'm not gonna name names but some of your colleagues have in in 360 feedback
8:01
they've mentioned this shortly not naming any names people have mentioned in Anonymous feedback that you leave
8:08
Discord open you know while they're trying to help you uh redeploy your [ __ ] or whatever the [ __ ] it was that shortly
8:14
was helping you with that it's sorry uh Anonymous it could be anybody uh people have mentioned that you're not
8:20
paying dude they're trying to help you with the task and like I said it could be anybody but this is this has come up to HR before so I think we're going to
8:27
have to take disciplinary action now schultzy was sending me messages in
8:32
Discord like what do you want me to close it and not [ __ ] read it
8:37
well I I don't think pointed fingers is going to help you at this point now like there's that ship has sailed I think we
8:43
we're into a formal disciplinary process now right I literally don't know how to turn the sound off I'm very sorry can I
8:51
please be let off with a warning stop sending me [ __ ] okay first of all you alternate click on
8:58
Discord and then you you move for the mouse right it might be a trackpad depending on your setup and then you
9:05
click quit it's I mean I know it's quite complicated granddad but or command Q
9:12
just go with that one before I close this I'm gonna get behind do you know how hard it is to catch back up again
9:19
these are like half second blocks you just cannot get back to the Head after you close this how many unread do you
9:24
have in Discord what's the icon see in Discord how many unread do you have maybe a few thousand
9:30
oh okay well what the [ __ ] so do I so you're not missing too much I mean clearly I I do I do like falling behind
9:37
I do like wonder sometimes when people are like I work all the time I'm like okay there's a difference between like
9:42
working all the time and being on Discord all the time sharing very different activities one
9:48
one of them is is well it's kind of close to closer to
9:53
masturbation than work really but you know that's um so you know it look it was worth
10:01
reading this one because it's fun but it was it was artifact showing me his uh
10:07
stickers that he's got for um East Denver and uh giving me the website that he
10:14
made it on but also saying be warned is dangerously fun to make swag here you can go off the rails fast so I I guess
10:21
there's going to be a lot of artifact uh swag at uh East Denver
10:27
oh yeah he has these this these holographic astronauts that are doing yoga um so cool I feel like yeah I feel
10:34
straight jealous it's like it went past envy and it's deep into the jealousy area
10:39
wait yeah on a t-shirt or uh okay well I'm not going to eat them but
10:47
so there was no point us making swag you know and the the couple of times we made it then the events that we were going to
10:53
take him to they weren't delivered in time and then I just ended up like in our office basically we have under my
10:59
desk there's just like a pile of stuff a couple of times when we bought it it's arrived late it's just like
11:06
cool what am I going to do with this now like it's just under my desk again in the way it is
11:12
yeah exactly 100 okay so uh other things this week so we've we had a
11:19
we had a poll on Twitter following up on us hard hitting
11:25
civil discussion right last week on game of nodes um asking the question okay is white
11:32
labeling a civil attack what do the people think you know we've we've had a long discussion about it what do people
11:38
think we want to get some some feedback um 60 of people on that poll not
11:43
important how many people responded definitely definitely a representative
11:49
sample size of a cosmos massive well I voted with 12 of my accounts massive
11:55
numbers on this one massive big bigly numbers
12:00
um 60 of people said white labeling was a Sybil
12:06
16.3 a mere 16.3p I obviously you know completely impartial but a mere 60.3
12:12
percent of people said it wasn't a civil um and then a third option no it's not a
12:19
Sybil but it's still dangerous for the network uh 23.8 percent of people said
12:25
that so uh and and the the no but still dangerous Camp I think
12:30
um was summed up by uh Twitter user ship the code which I nearly read as
12:37
something else uh the code uh summed up as white laboring Opera
12:44
white labeling operations introduce correlated risk it's as simple as that
12:51
sometimes it's even hidden so no one knows it's there
12:56
and that was that was kind of the summary I think of the um the no but still dangerous camp
13:01
uh so which is which is sort of like it's like a it's not quite labeling we're not super happy about it um which
13:08
I was surprised more people didn't go for but but yeah nearly 25 of people went for that one so that's uh just like
13:14
as a as a um a validator and a network owner I guess well not really owner but
13:21
a network founder is is that the right word what what do you think about this whole situation I mean it's there's like
13:28
there's what what labeling the various degrees there's people who are white
13:34
labeling but they have like basically some dedicated third party who's not
13:40
doing well potentially not doing other nodes and then there's just like flat out white labelers who basically have
13:47
are running thousands of nodes for other people and sometimes as we've seen don't
13:53
even give the keys to the people who own the validators what do you think man what are your thoughts
14:00
I mean yeah there is the Spectrum from zero to one and in between there's everything else so white labeling to an
14:08
extent I feel is fine because if there is someone that really wants to contribute to the network like let's
14:13
just take the example of confirm no from one of the other dramas today uh it is
14:19
important that you know people like onfio they might not have the expertise they
14:24
might not have the bandwidth they might have the expertise but not the bandwidth to be able to run these Ops right and
14:30
especially in the cosmos ecosystem it is very hard to be able to incentivize someone that's a long-term contributed
14:36
without them running a validator and without giving them a delegation Grant so that has become the most common
14:42
practice of the way in which we incentivize contributors or stakeholders I'll say and these stakeholders can be
14:49
technical people non-technical people and for them white labeling is important we've also seen cases where funds VC
14:56
funds do not know how to run infrastructure and they essentially you know have
15:01
they contact the good guys you know they make sure to conduct the right side of people and get them to run a note right
15:08
in this case again various degrees various uh methodologies are employed
15:13
and keys are given not given uh some don't even take the uh you know some
15:18
don't take the mnemonics some uh do x y z so it is important because you know
15:24
from a dow structure standpoint at least that's what's established at this point in time but going forward you know with
15:31
more options for stakeholders to involve maybe uh you know white labeling will not be necessary and one analogy that
15:39
you know I'd like to share here is uh just take a look at what is happening in the ethereum world right and these
15:47
are not white labeled as such they are sovereign but at the same time they're
15:52
managed Services if we look at them you know in a web to context so yeah I mean
15:58
it is it is everywhere and it is in the network and you know like lunked like
16:04
the lunar Community yeah that is a different story altogether right and then there are networks they all know
16:11
its community sorry the all nodes Community yeah exactly the onwards Community right so
16:18
that's a different story all together but you know these have existed in other networks you know in the other 50 plus
16:25
networks in the ecosystem and I think they're relatively okay but uh they're
16:30
not safe I'm in the know but they're dangerous camp and this is let me be clear that we too run uh White Label
16:38
Services it's not a white label service but more like a mandate service and we help Cosmic validator run their
16:44
infrastructure right so from a technology standpoint so this is this was one of the revenue streams that we
16:50
had as well you know back when we were bootstrapping the network and you know doing various other ways I mean doing
16:56
various other things to contribute yeah so in the beginning your node operations were to actually and this may still be
17:04
the case but your node operations were basically to gather token to support the
17:10
um uh uh uh like you're you're what the [ __ ] is it
17:17
called the uh basically like your initial listing of your your coin right
17:24
sorry
17:31
the LBP you mean for the LBP yeah yeah for the LBP yeah
17:40
no actually it is primarily so it's twofold so we have what is like a Fiat revenue and a
17:46
token revenue and this is primarily used for you know team the team's expenses
17:52
infra operations and so on so forth and of course to be able to you know fund
17:57
operational development for omniflex but you know most likely we won't be utilizing validator Tokens The Tokens
18:04
that the omniflex network uh validator earned uh you know as revenue from or
18:10
you know as you got from some of the other networks for the LBP so that will most likely be uh you know an option
18:18
down the list you know it won't be the case because in the new stream swap model we don't have to do that that's
18:23
the advantage so yeah okay now okay I get it and and
18:29
you said that your your validator operations are managed by someone else
18:34
there's a reason no oh no they managed by yourself or did you say you do some white labels and so
18:40
on sorry I missed like exactly you know we manage uh infra for others yeah
18:46
that's right do you do you have a like uh um is that disclosed at all like who
18:51
that is or oh yeah Cosmic yeah yeah
18:58
I mean this is public we wanted to do it the right way
19:03
as well so yeah yeah yeah I I
19:09
don't know I don't know if it necessarily really matters I think I agree with the zero to one type of thing and like there's probably an area where
19:14
at some point it's it doesn't make sense um I do think it has to do with the
19:20
wallet and the only reason has to do with the wallet is really for governance but you know my drama keep beating is that validator should not be voting
19:26
non-voting share so really that governance piece shouldn't really matter and if you got rid of that then this would be an issue that would go away I
19:32
mean there's still a risk obviously from uh blocks producing perspective and you have depending on who that white label is if
19:39
they're running out of one or two small DC's and you have an issue in terms of chain stopping due to that right
19:45
um and that it that's that's still an issue but I think most people get riled up because of the governance piece and
19:50
that and that almost thing was really going back to the idea that they were doing uh they were either they own those
19:57
wallets or they were doing voting for people or whatever else which I think is that stuff is is pretty [ __ ]
20:05
um let's catch up on some comments uh Badger but it says uh Nell approaches the truth that's not a good way that's
20:12
just that's just a Fluff that's not a [ __ ] fluff
20:17
yes don't put that [ __ ] because you know
20:23
what's coming on stream that's uh that's a valid no it's a very valid comment
20:28
that yeah no that was not preaching the truth sisler says like oh we've also riding
20:35
white labels we run them for Cosmic validator and they're like two minutes later no it's like sweet hang on a
20:40
minute wait a second you guys run white labels
20:46
so wait but why male models it's hard to listen and and read at the
20:54
same time read your own compliments Discord I was stuck reading Nella
21:00
preaches the truth like over and over again I got stuck on that comment uh anyway so Badger bite also says way too
21:07
many validators are up our operators that have zero technical skills and thus are employing the white labels yes yeah
21:14
there are quite a few honestly Cosmos validators they're all marketers either they're marketing the community they're
21:20
marketing to project owners or they're marketing to other validators those are the three groups like though
21:26
and all validators fit into one or multiple of those camps either they go after Community delegations they go
21:32
after the project owners right for foundation or they go after other validators meaning like they provide infrastructure for their validation but
21:37
they're all marketers I mean that's a hell of a statement to make that's basically saying yeah all of these value
21:43
validators provide value to someone well I'm not saying they're all good players I'm saying that they the successful ones
21:50
the ones who have been repeatedly successful across chains then why isn't this podcast I don't know
21:57
I mean we're terrible marketers I mean I kind of just prove it thus
22:03
they're all Market but that that statement's true like they all are in some sort of way like they'll always
22:09
have focuses right like people go after they go after Foundation right they want to be able to help and make Foundation I mean marketer's not a bad thing I don't
22:16
think it is a negative term it's not a negative term but they have a target market right they either are very
22:21
Community focused and so they talk about governance also that type of [ __ ] or they go after Foundation where they want to be able to help projects and that
22:27
that's not necessarily bad marketing just means they want to be able to help and they want to grow the ecosystem or they they provide infrastructure to the
22:33
validators or they provide things and be able to help in that way but it does have to be limited it's not necessarily negative but they all kind of fit into
22:39
those groups right um at least ones have repeated successfully yeah but actually to be
22:44
fair there was another comment the badge of I made uh I think there's not much uh yeah it's like null's gray I love null I
22:52
definitely not no sock puppet that was no no um they said um
22:57
uh it's not that difficult to run a single node just learn the skills FFF
23:03
yeah that's true um but the is the follow-up to this there's that what I want to get on which
23:08
is is when you scale to run on many change things to start to become tricky right but picking up on what you were
23:14
saying you said but kind of everybody's everybody I you know I'm I'm [ __ ] posting right but I think you're
23:19
actually kind of pretty much bang on the money everybody has the structure of validation in Cosmos the size of the
23:25
valve sets means that yes you do have to be a marketer for for one of a better
23:31
term um but I think I I would actually caveat that slightly differently I think that
23:37
you have to to survivors about data you have to a lot of violators do come from
23:43
especially what let's say call them like the app chain winter validators or the the Stargate era validators you know
23:50
just after IBC like that generation of validated the majority of technical people but the majority also have one
23:57
thing uncommon I've noticed from talking to literally hundreds of validators one of the benefits of doing Juno at the
24:03
time that I got involved was that I've talked to a lot of validators and the ones that have stuck around tend to be
24:09
the ones that are business-minded right and I think what I've noticed in the validated Community especially the
24:15
people I talk to and work with very regularly is that the validators who
24:20
have survived are the ones who are technical but business-minded or they
24:26
are good marketers but business-minded or they like whatever the skill is
24:31
that's underlying their contribution yeah they all have in common they fundamentally run a business and they
24:37
and they they think in terms of running a business rather than necessarily in
24:42
the more idealistic terms that I think the developer cohort do in Cosmos and
24:48
actually I was talking to shortly in the week about this which is that I think as a developer and this is where Badger
24:53
bytes comment comes in as well is that the issue with that is that as soon as you start to think in a kind of business
25:00
focused way you you start to have to scale right because that's how you you mitigate risk and that is where the why
25:07
that is where a the white labeling becomes a problem right because you start to have to look at other Solutions
25:14
can you scale yourself Can you hire new people all of these introduce different risks and different stresses right and
25:20
white labeling is is both a way of reducing risk and also introducing new risks to you as a business and to
25:26
network blah blah but there's another interesting thing right which is that it also depending on what your specialty
25:33
is it can take you further away from your specialty and this is the tension I
25:38
think that I was talking to schultzy about in the week which is that if you're a developer there are only so
25:44
many hours you can put into uh in the week it's very very hard to scale focused flow hours on a development task
25:52
it's basically impossible to scale them and find and so when you scale to multiple chains with that as your
25:58
primary you know value add you find that increasingly you stop
26:04
doing Hands-On code and you start becoming more of an advisor more of a kind of like a oh I've seen this before
26:10
here's why here's what happened is whatever and I think actually both me and schultzy developers validators run
26:18
small business now and both of us I think when we participate in say mainnet Genesis ceremonies and things like that
26:24
I think the invites come for this kind of reason and you sat there in the channel
26:29
being like Oh I think we've seen this before this might be what's happening if something goes wrong or whatever and if
26:35
everything's totally smooth no worries okay forget about it or documentation or like encouraging people to set up cosm
26:41
advice is all these tiny little things that you've learned they're not really you've
26:48
for the need to scale the business you've actually become quite divorced from what you kind of see as your core
26:53
skill set and I think that's the that's the other interesting thing like what's taking it out they're taking it a little bit away
26:59
from what we were talking about a second ago which is um you know sybils and white labeling all that sort of stuff but I think there
27:05
is also a tension and we've talked about this in the past in various scenarios between how you scale a validator
27:11
operation while still adding the same amount of value add to multiple
27:17
communities right because even if you hire like three people the lot of the knowledge you have that
27:24
makes you a value to one Community it's in your head and it's quite hard to scale that
27:30
um if that is your your thing I mean other other skill sets that I maybe are not technical it's much much more easy
27:36
to scale marketing say you can get good marketing people you can socialize that knowledge and then you can move forward
27:42
probably a lot more easily than you can you know debugging the [ __ ] event system and the SDK right right but and
27:50
to go along with that I think my point in like calling it the different marketing buckets was also to say like if if people are marketers to delegators
27:58
like like let's use Don as an example so Dan provides a value to the cosmos right
28:03
and he wants to be able to earn as a validator and he's going to use a white label right somebody's actually running
28:10
those notes for him um to be able to do that I really don't have a problem with that like I mean part of that you you can expect that
28:16
that he's marketing to the community and so Community markers you have nft groups
28:21
that are doing this like we talk about orbital apes and other ones you have you have YouTube personalities you have like
28:26
us like a huge YouTube personalities um and and like other types of groups that want to be able to exercise that
28:32
right um to be able to run a validator but don't have the skills to do that so that would be a white label situation if they
28:38
go to Sizzler they go to who one of you guys to be able to do that that would be great because I know at least at like at
28:44
least for from that perspective you know it's their right to do that and
28:49
they can they can drum up the delegation and if they have somebody who can make sure that they don't double sign then so be it
28:55
um but I mean again that's Cosmos I think I've I think I think we've fought against that in the past right I think I
29:00
remember in a previous episode we talked about like like find different ways to to be able to compensate those groups
29:07
and like let validators be infrastructure in experts to be able to run infrastructure but I think that's
29:13
not this I don't think that's this ecosystem I think that's Avalanche and that's near and that's
29:19
Aptos and that's other ones that are even ethereum where like you have a
29:24
different type structure to be able to drum out delegations this one is a popularity like there's a bit of popularity and there's a benefit
29:30
structure to it and if that's it then so be it I guess it's also just like fundamentally the case that when you
29:35
have the internet of blockchains and they're all sort of running a service that you squint at and it looks similar
29:41
is easy to it is easier to scale your knowledge from one chain
29:47
to another chain or even to just like you know like a really prime example would be
29:52
um a portion of the Juno docs come from um the stargaze test net docs which were
30:00
pinched we pinched them we rewrote chunks of them and that became like the junior docs for the test Nets and then
30:05
for mainnet and then they got got developed over time and then a lot of the Juno docs like for the chains that
30:11
launched after Juno right um you know they kind of used those same documents documentation and stuff like
30:16
that and like this is a good thing right because it shows how reusable and how easy it is to disseminate that knowledge
30:22
because of course the Juno docs were based on the stargaze docks and were based on presumably regen and other
30:28
things before that right whereas you go to another ecosystem and you look at the
30:33
knowledge base there and like it's like the core team or the GitHub or whatever and it's
30:41
usually just the core team or the foundation and then asking around others
30:46
via DM like the the difference between Cosmos the amount of information that's written is available for you as a
30:52
validator the videos the just because of the number of chains and it's all transferable knowledge versus like Aptos
30:59
hey you want to run uh you know Aptos on AWS cool there's some example terraform
31:07
in the repo there's docs from the foundation you run into a problem
31:13
you need to find another validator on slack and DM them right that would be because there's only there's such a
31:19
small number where it's like there's what a thousand maybe more validators in Cosmos it's like it's like a significant
31:25
cohort of people right and teams and companies and whatnot right yeah well I think it's also interesting that
31:32
Cosmos is unique in that so many of us validators undercut each other not just in commissions but also in like the
31:39
products we provide like our public art PCS that we provide
31:44
um hit between 10 and 30 million uses per day right now if you go to like
31:51
ethereum you have inferior which is a multi-billion dollar company who hits obviously another order of magnitude more than that but the fact that so many
31:57
validators in the cosmos provide so much public infrastructure pokechu holds snapshots whereas before that before
32:04
poker came around there was a quick sync I want to call it and they were they I think cost ten thousand a month for a
32:10
network to to have and they provided less updated snapshots less performance snapshots and I would say less clean
32:20
documentation for how to download them than poke2 does for 10 000 a month so if poker Chu is getting 10 000 a month for
32:25
each of these networks that would be you know he's on 40 networks or whatever that's 400 000 a month in theory but he
32:31
just does it for free and it's a superior service so there's so many things that validators are undercutting you know they're kind of selling their
32:37
their products short in order to create their brand which then goes back to why white label is kind of necessary because
32:43
there's that income stream that's necessary and why developers can't really aren't making
32:49
great money as expected because all of these products should be out there like confield the fact that twanfield went
32:54
out here and it's like hey we need to stop our public good and despite of it being arguably one of the most important
33:00
aspects of the cosmos I think they also do cosm.js right two of the most important aspects of the cosmos yeah and
33:06
they're not able to get funding for it right right because of these weird undercutting principles that we all kind
33:11
of live by to build our brand well so so yeah so to pick up on so just just sort
33:16
of again so spell out the scenario here uh very clearly we alluded to this earlier saying that we arranged all the
33:23
drama neatly before game of nodes that we could talk about it um this is kind of what we were talking
33:29
like what Sizzler was saying a little bit earlier where you know traditionally developers are sort of recompense as
33:35
stakeholders by running a validator you know what Schultz is picking up there on there is that that that leads to
33:42
attention because you're getting drawn away by where you make your income from away from being a developer because you
33:48
make your income as a validator and that's now your your business and so then where this
33:54
comes in in today's drama du jour um or one of the one of the several
34:00
things has happened today is that confio um creates a cosmosm as you say
34:06
maintainers of cosm.js um which is the primary way people build uis in the cosmos
34:12
um announced that they are not going to be maintaining uh Cosmic wasm is also house why we have
34:19
Smart contracts without copies and Cosmos and smart contracts that's yeah we've had obviously ethernet and
34:26
we've had Simon on the show before uh talk about that obviously Juno we have a lot of interest in cars and Wilds on
34:31
Smart contracts um so they are not going to be maintaining those those public good
34:37
projects anymore uh they're not going to be triaging PR's they're not going to be looking after them and
34:44
there's also a knock-on effect for security uh notifications that the
34:50
existing security notification um infrastructure is going to cease
34:55
with a couple of exceptions so a couple of projects do actually fund convio
35:01
directly Juno's one of them although there is some there is some
35:08
complication to that in a bear Market um but Juno does uh fund confion there
35:14
is a there is an ongoing there's a whole ongoing thing there's some complexity basically around the
35:21
fact that Juno isn't a foundation but so some teams like Juno are still I believe going to get security notifications and
35:28
some kind of you know support from confvo
35:35
um today tweet from me sang yep and they've posted it they posted a a
35:40
um a medium article basically explained their position and saying that until they raise I think their burn rate is
35:47
two million dollars a year um they have 25 25 staff and Freelancers
35:54
I think convo and so like until we're basically solvent effectively again
35:59
um we have to prioritize the things that are bringing in money and that unfortunately is at odds with spending
36:07
all our time working on wasmd cosmoasm cosm.js
36:12
and also upstreaming quite a bit of stuff into the SDK from what I understand there's a there's the whole
36:18
sdk46 47 thing as well which I gather eats up a fair amount of time
36:24
so that so so is this the the one liner here the bombshell is no more support
36:30
for cosmoasm and then there's a little asterisk with sort of except Juno who else who else
36:37
supports campio you said there's three changes I think star gays do I think
36:42
stargazers have given them some coinage and Tara has a proper up for it right now tier 2 has a prop up for it right
36:48
now okay right and so is this is this a um is this a chicken game I mean do they
36:54
really not want to support it or they can't and they've been asking for funding and now they're saying well yeah
37:00
I think it's like I think it's like this is what happens when we don't get funded type thing because I'm sure they want to
37:06
maintain it but you can't just keep running at a loss and asking and asking and not getting any traction if people
37:12
like realize the consequences of not funding them um look I mean it's entirely possible
37:18
that someone else picks up the candle like yeah it's nothing stopping someone else coming in and yeah well [ __ ] it
37:24
we'll we'll maintain it we've got Surplus Dev power or whatever yeah yeah I think uh so some people in the chat
37:29
saying osmosis as well I think they uh correct me if I'm wrong osmosis paid
37:34
specifically for the original integration um and that was like a a time-boxed
37:40
piece of work and support and I'm I'm not sure that it was like an ongoing agreement behind that but perhaps
37:45
they've paid more funds over since then so it could be could be wrong about that
37:50
but obviously that's kind of the tip of the iceberg for the number of projects that are using cosmoasm
37:56
um and the fact that it has become kind of the default stack really um right for new projects in the cosmos
38:05
um so yeah there's it's one of those things where I think I think people who have
38:11
any interaction with confio or behind the scenes this is not a surprise
38:16
because that I think that the complexity of their funding and I was just making
38:21
himself coffee in the background there uh the complexity they're funding I think is is quite common knowledge like as in that people that they need more
38:29
funding than they're getting uh and it's a bear Market um but I think this is this is probably
38:34
like usurper says like and they said Cry for Help that's not
38:39
that's not quite what I mean is it but it's like uh it's not quite it's not quite plain chicken but it is a hope
38:46
that by essentially embarrassing potentially foundations that were
38:51
dragging their feet in public the the people will pay up essentially well it's
38:58
a it's definitely a way to show the cost of maintaining this tool set that all these chains benefit from right that's
39:05
one way of doing that I don't know and I didn't mean to say it was chicken like as a as a bad thing it's just a way to
39:10
say like we can't afford it it must have been a difficult decision internally also for this team um since they are the founders of this
39:17
idea and like it's created so much opportunity to then have to say we have
39:22
this you know these this amount of people on staff who were going to abandon or not abandon but you know we're going to stop working on it
39:29
um although I the the Juno the Juno caveat is weird because you would think
39:35
that um if you're gonna give Juno alert you would be able to give everybody alerts which means you're doing the same
39:40
amount of work whether you're telling one team or 30 teams so I'm curious around that but I think
39:46
it well I think it's also about responsiveness and whether people have set up a
39:52
you know like an alert a security procedure so most Cosmos and
39:59
chains based on agreement made I can't remember if it's I think this must have been in 2021 have a security.md in their
40:06
repo which details a way of getting in touch basically right and around Robin
40:12
of people you should get in touch with and how um so there is like actually a pretty
40:17
straightforward way of doing that but whether or not those people are actually a contactable be gone away C got their
40:24
discords um you know like I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure you can't just send me a Discord invite
40:31
um so like it's things like that where you know have you had some previous interaction with them like where's like for us like you know I know Simon I know
40:37
Ethan if they need to get hold of Juno they can get hold of me they can hold Jake they can get hold of a number of people
40:43
on the team super easy for some other projects I think there's less of a direct line of communication so I think
40:48
it's also a little bit it's a little bit about like can I in
40:54
between the time it takes for me to remember a thing and walk to the fridge to get the milk can I send a message on
41:00
my phone that's like yo security update the other thing is The Fray
41:06
um that now um Ethan and gang actually have like an
41:11
economic interest in the security of Juno so I don't think that they would
41:17
um let it get out of date in that regard just because of their own
41:23
uh interests as well yeah makes sense
41:28
but still I mean I mean what do you think about for the greater ecosystem that's it's a tough decision for them to make to have to do that so and I don't
41:35
know if it do we would the community want someone else to pick it up or is it really
41:40
oh this is a wake-up call we need to do a better job of funding the underlying infrastructure and code that's creation
41:47
of the whole that the whole ecosystem benefits from yeah but I mean it's it's entirely
41:54
possible that there's like some other company out there who's got Surplus Dev power and you know it might be a
42:00
business move for them they might be well we'll pick it up now and we'll just Kick the Can along the road and keep it
42:06
up to date with security and then wait till the bull market and then start asking people to Fork up
42:12
yeah I mean I don't think people don't want to pay comfio for the for the
42:17
support of Cosmos and it's just that at the moment is a bad time
42:22
um and obviously the grants you get along the way run out so you sort of
42:27
have to constantly be getting cash injections for this type of Maintenance and unfortunately that's not a problem
42:33
during a bull market but when it hits like a downtrend like we are now everybody starts to start looking at
42:41
their liquidity and this type of thing and they're like well we can't afford to hand over you know half a million
42:47
dollars a year anymore so or you know a quarter or whatever so you know it's just go ahead sorry no
42:55
well it just becomes like we want to give you the money but we can't because we'll
43:00
like you know kill our community at the same time and then what's the point and the only here is this is where the
43:06
conversation comes back around to running a validator how would they get constant income they run a validator and
43:13
then yeah if they ran a validator on every Network that they supplied um what
43:18
who that uses cosmosm and then petitioned for a decent stake from the the foundations or whatever they call
43:25
the big bags these days then you know they might have some sort of security in that and that could be a
43:31
public good validator and I got no problem I mean look at it look at the size look at the size of a lot of
43:37
notional delegations on chains exactly yeah and a lot of those are from
43:44
teams and yeah a lot of those are team delegations or even the growth of Dow Dow right same type of thing right they just launched and they were top 10
43:50
within because Community recognizes the the benefits I'm not sure how much the this is a bit of how the sausage was
43:57
made so it's not necessarily as visible or something like that without um because it's a little bit behind the scenes but something that could be
44:03
marketed yeah yeah I mean Daddy I rocket it up because it is you know it's a recognized brand
44:08
of the chain so um but also I think that maybe um Jake
44:13
supported that quite a lot himself I could be wrong there yeah uh yeah we saw we saw a wee bit of shuffling so
44:21
but also with that I I mean that is a way to do it in this type of situation I'm not sure if that's the best way of
44:27
being able to support that like out to your point before like it does seem that like there is a there is a case to be
44:34
made for teams that that are using cosm Blossom to be able to fund that in some sort of way right
44:39
um and and that might be grants or something similar to that but I agree and also your point before null about
44:45
like grants running out I mean a lot of times I'm guessing the timing that cosmosm came out and the grants that were given
44:51
those tokens now are if they didn't exercise them right away those tokens are probably worth one tenth of what
44:56
they were right so even a large grant that was made in the middle of 2022 is not the same as what it is today
45:03
yeah I think that's sold out straight away right I don't know some of those do do
45:10
they all do that or they kind of hold on based on I thought for osmo that they couldn't sell them I thought there was like a six month what was that investing
45:17
period or something I I thought so I could be wrong I mean depending on the grand size that's tough because of your point before like you just drain the
45:22
liquidity pool right or are you gonna you know you're gonna kill it for a month it'd be better to spread it I think the the thing that's interesting
45:28
here to to me right is that something taking it back to like what we're talking about like it's whatever you are
45:34
whether you're a developer whether you're whatever like the thing that validates have in common is that they're business-minded right if you're
45:40
business-minded you diversify your risk you don't allow yourself to be backed into a corner right you don't want one
45:46
client to be holding a gun at you and you know there's there's some
45:52
interesting conversation there's an interesting conversation happening in the chat and there's like uh uh so like a really prime example of this
45:58
um Jose Luis Lopez says uh we need to find a better way to fund a project without the having them running nodes we
46:06
should allow teams to do our best do best code right and that's great because you you fund them they can code happy
46:12
days they have to want to run validators and they're completely dependent on that income stream right so right they're
46:19
still in a high risk situation right and this is kind of the and this is kind of
46:24
the the the burnout is it's a part of the funding problem in in the cosmos and
46:30
maybe in crypto generally and it's but definitely in Cosmos and it's also part of the burnout problem which we've talked about in the past is that
46:36
if you if you want to have a semi-sustainable way of doing this full time you actually
46:44
ironically can't do your thing full-time because you're going to have to run about data and that gradually just takes
46:50
over your focus and there are pros and cons the pro is that you can't fully be
46:56
backed in a corner by anybody right once you have like a brand and a setup and a yada yada
47:02
but you also you are still dependent on a small pool of of different of
47:07
different things but it's less so than like one project says we don't want you you know you we don't need development
47:13
anymore and that's it you're like okay it's but I mean what's if it's revenue for
47:20
your company it's a small investment to have someone run some info to get
47:26
the revenue but but is that well is it is it why not white label the [ __ ] thing well that's what this is what I
47:32
mean it's back to White labeling white labeling is so much cheaper than like hiring a member of Staff in the country
47:40
we're in like so uh our fine our finance guys say do not under any circumstances
47:47
so it's not easy to hire and fire in the UK um unless you're literally going bankrupt as a company and you can
47:54
demonstrate that um so the rule of thumb is you need like a year to two years worth of their
48:00
salary usually two in crypto because our accounts are crypto
48:06
you know they know the stuff the finance guys and they're like okay look we've seen people get into enough trouble you
48:12
need to have two years in the bank before you hire each person two years in the back two years of a Dev salary
48:17
we would have minus a lot of money in the bank and this has affected us with
48:23
working on projects like howl and stuff as well because like obviously we have um the two other people worked on that
48:29
like we all co-founded it together and built that and you know you're like okay well can we
48:36
bring more developers to work on this everybody's working on it part-time and we're the company in the mix that has
48:43
like some funds in the bank because we work full-time in crypto and then you go you look at the amount
48:49
cost to hire a developer and you look at how much we've got how much we earn tax and all this other stuff and you're like
48:55
yeah we've got like you know besides besides our existing contractual
49:00
obligations to freelance and blah blah blah blah and all the other bits and pieces that we have coming in you're like we we we bring on one person and we
49:08
are burnt through in Under 12 months like really really quickly and you're like
49:13
and this is that this is like the root of the problem it's not even that you burn through your cash so quickly it's
49:19
that no developer is going to take a job when they come into interview and
49:25
they're like hmm you work in a high risk sector how much money do you have in the bank and you're like definitely enough
49:31
to pay you for three years please come and work for us trust me
49:37
yeah just trust me man I'm not gonna have to make you redundant in in 10 months time and this is like the the
49:43
essence of like the the even would you know when we were doing Outreach to find people who are crypto interested and
49:49
worked and go right to maybe come and work on this and this is going back a year and a half this is like pre-launch
49:55
I I know some incredibly good developers they work and go and I was talking to some of these guys
50:01
and being like hey look this stuff is Child's Play for you like you know you could you could do this there's money in
50:06
it blah blah and they're just like yeah but it's not sustainable money is it like they're like I contract I go on I
50:13
get this amount per day I invoice every week I get paid
50:18
why why would I bother why would I bother with that drama and it's it and it's it's that risk reward thing of like
50:26
the consistency which I think you know even if you can get those guys to come work on a permanent contract it's so
50:31
hard to guarantee funds right if you buy a house you have to guarantee funds if you're trying to hire somebody you don't
50:37
have to guarantee funds formally but that is the interview processes they're looking at you going is this guy a deadbeat is this chain a Debbie is this
50:43
project a deadbeat and then you say to those guys hey no no it is possible if you'd come work on this cool project you
50:49
want to come work on but you've also got to run a validator and they're like
50:54
right so there's now two things is it and then you go back around the houses
51:05
uh yeah I mean all I can say is yeah I can I can actually share in that right now one of my friends he was just
51:12
looking for work and I was like hey consider the cosmos now they gave him a rundown what was gonna happen he browsed on Twitter for like a day or something
51:19
and he was like I don't know about that that didn't seem didn't seem like my cup of tea and I was
51:26
like yeah okay it's a little orthogonal I mean it's just adding one more flame to the fire
51:32
right this is it yeah like I don't know like my friends are my friends people
51:37
I've used to work with they're like they're like what'd you do do you like just write smart contracts with that it's like no I spend a uh 30 30 minutes
51:46
in the morning staring into space with a coffee thinking about tax and then then
51:52
I do some admin then some more admin and then some server stuff and then twiddle
51:57
around with ansible for a bit and then and then yeah there's a sweet 20-minute book a day where I get to write some
52:03
Rust it's [ __ ] great [ __ ] great and that's lunch and then and then you know there's usually some cool you gotta
52:09
catch up on Discord because Noel's [ __ ] said [ __ ] posting or you know whatever and there's some corporate
52:14
[ __ ] avatars apparently and yep and ah God and then
52:20
somebody's picking I'm getting GitHub notifications because somebody's complaining some docs are out of date
52:26
and you're like oh yeah it's quite a fragmented weird experience existence trying to make all of these kind of
52:32
square all these circles like but I think the thing is it's not that's not to complain like if you can handle that
52:38
or if you're in any way into that certainly sounds like a complaint okay well that's just because that's just my
52:44
regular tone of voice now that's just that's just being British like let me talk about the weather but like
52:50
but like I think the point is that not everybody wants that some people literally they want to work on a thing they're really interested in they want
52:55
to come to work every day get into flow knock it out go out or if they're working home
53:01
stay at home and go into the other room or whatever yeah working at home is uh
53:09
this is one of the problems of being a validator is like your office being your house and the beer being so close
53:16
so sometimes launch turns into like just getting drunk
53:22
all right so it is 57 minutes in we have asked sisla one question but before we do that we do have a topic right for
53:29
today's show not just this there are some there's some great there's some great points in the chat I want to bring out because
53:35
um these are these are really good Ben Davis says I believe the Hub should fund compio the indirect benefits alone
53:40
making make it a no-brainer for me um and then soy two oh where the hell is
53:47
it uh I think this is the right comment I'm
53:52
picking up it says soy2 says it's not a direct liability to the hub Adam Community has voted that they don't want
53:58
they don't want Cosmos I'm on the Hub so why should they pay for it I think the consumer chain
54:04
um needs to support and then I think the idea that idea of like having if the Hub
54:10
is the Hub and we're going to be the the liquidity center of the cosmos which
54:16
they're trying to be able to be right with the interchange security and all that type of stuff then maybe either
54:21
they should be in a position to have to support tool sets that are used across multiple chains in the cosmos or I wrote
54:29
in the comment that maybe maybe then they shouldn't be able to allow it used to use interchange Security on chains that use cosmoplasm like why be able to
54:36
apply that liquidity to chains that use tool sets that that they're not going to support so I think there's kind of this
54:43
case around trying to turn not trying to turn trying to keep Adam as being like a central Hub of the
54:49
cosmos and so what does that definition really mean what does that mean is it just liquidity and if it's just
54:55
liquidity then what these tool sets that allow the cosm to grow do they have no responsibility to that and maybe they
55:02
don't but I thought that was those are both good points I think they need to be called out
55:09
nobody gives a [ __ ] that's okay listen Maybe we're sorry I'm just busy being
55:14
the only one keeping time stamps dude yeah let's go I I I I completely agree I
55:19
was just expecting somebody else to say something if I [ __ ] shut up for a second I do love that I just want to talk I just want to call these
55:25
timestamps timestamps number it says zero [ __ ] for 11 minutes
55:31
it's literally the time step that's what's happening this is what happens when I don't feel the Space 4 900 employing people is hard
55:41
no sir look for these awesome chapters on the next game of notes
55:47
[Laughter] yeah yeah so why I really like the idea
55:52
of not having this fun config because The Hub doesn't have Cosmos and we've literally voted no on it
55:59
khanfield does still handle cosm.js right and that is like that is the thing
56:04
that people use for interfaces for for Cosmos so whether they should fund all of it or not they should certainly have
56:10
some part of the burden to play um but I did really like there was another comment about like some sort of
56:16
remittance system back to the cosmos Hub if they end up paying for it and I think that's a really interesting idea of yeah
56:23
um maybe Cosmos doesn't need to cover all of it but maybe there's some sort of like way of
56:28
refunding Cosmos in some way if they end up covering all of it I don't know I think it probably makes more sense just
56:34
to pay compio directly but the idea of some sort of like remittance between chains is absolutely
56:39
fascinating to me yeah I mean okay I mean there's there's a whole lot there I mean it just
56:44
occurred to me as well we've got Todd in the chat we should have we should invite Todd on and made a whole hope a whole
56:49
party because obviously Todd has done the Todd has that was my a kind of loose
56:55
attempt at an Australian accent for a split second but I backed out as I was going into it so it just ended up with a weird voice for the word party
57:02
um but Todd also has gone through the the kind of applying for funds for public goods process on on chains we
57:09
talked about in the past with uh tender Duty so um yeah that's that's completely on us
57:14
for not thinking that that would be a good mix but we also needs towards Sizzler as well but before
57:21
we let you spreadsheet before we do before we do
57:28
Tucson of the week injected on Mars so as some of you might be aware uh we're aim we're gonna let's
57:36
deal with this on the hour we can finally get to introducing and talking to our guests because we're scumbags I'm
57:42
sorry we're just teenage dirtbags baby before you go on with your Tombstone of
57:47
the week I know you love to go on with Tombstone of the week but back when we were talking about Todd I just want to shout out Todd for his
57:54
um node security video on various ways that people can discover your validator
58:00
node uh and attack surfaces for your validator nodes so if you're not already
58:06
go and check out uh links in the show notes yeah we'll put the links in the in
58:12
the show notes um like And subscribe him so you can actually see his next security videos that he put out he is
58:19
great on security and you should listen to him and that's the plug for Todd so that wasn't
58:26
sponsored or anything but uh definitely of course being block pain so if you see
58:32
your block pain block pain in the cosmos please delegate to block pain friend of the show an all-round excellent human
58:38
security Mainframe being and if you haven't already friggin give us a like And
58:46
subscribe to the [ __ ] Channel yeah do that uh we are at game of nodes
58:52
underscore on Twitter so go and follow that [ __ ] as well because I'm sick of you bastards coming here and watching
58:57
this and not doing those things and we need to get we need to get more popular so you need to do those things for I
59:04
don't know the algorithm or whatever but um also yeah delegate to our [ __ ] because we're getting poor and uh
59:12
and uh we're slowly losing all of our delegations probably because of all the
59:17
spicy [ __ ] that we say so maybe maybe we could do a comfy thing and just do a public public thing that we're giving up
59:22
gaming nodes unless you guys delegate we try it I think that would win or we could just go take this [ __ ] or there's
59:28
no way to take it over we could get it so there's a there's a new game of in the cosmos it's a game of chicken we're
59:33
all just gonna like say we're not gonna do our [ __ ] unless we get paid no one will give a [ __ ] this will never work this will never I've also I have a
59:40
different plan which is I'm going to get Ben Kingsley in character as Dawn to go
59:46
around to all of the potential delegators and tell them to delegate and here's a sample of what that's going to look like
59:52
yes yes that's going to get me the delegations a man shouting this just far away from
59:59
their face uh all right did it finish off your rants about the tombstone of the week so so this week's other news Mars Hub uh
1:00:07
launched yesterday another friend of the show smooth lunch digital Larry it was it was uh it was another one of those
1:00:15
very late doors Genesis changes and would you know it not everybody had the
1:00:21
correct Genesis uh so the chain made precisely one block
1:00:27
and then it it decided to have a little sit down it was imagine the chain in one
1:00:33
of those European fairy tales it's in a darkened wood it started to walk into the wood right there's all these noises
1:00:39
and stuff and it just sort of sits down on a toadstool and goes mmm
1:00:44
I'm not sure about this fellas and after one block that's sort of what it did sat
1:00:50
down to have a little think have a little think uh and and after
1:00:55
some poking in the back with a sharp stick it decided to get back up and
1:01:00
continue um but as it it continued a validator
1:01:05
fell out of his basket and broke because the Violator was an egg I guess so
1:01:15
um do you blame the validator for this or the um validated or the the instruction
1:01:21
validator this is always like the same thing like every time someone tombstones it's
1:01:28
because they're don't know what to do yeah so in this in this case I think it was a combination
1:01:33
of things like probably if the launch hadn't been so so aggressively marketed
1:01:39
as that time that day and that time um it would have been better to push it
1:01:45
back a bit and ensure that the validators were running the same
1:01:50
um Genesis file I submit to you that every experienced
1:01:57
validator knows to maintain their state when [ __ ] goes to the wall and what is
1:02:04
this what happened the state wasn't maintained because so yeah you get double-signed so the thing that happened
1:02:10
was the validators in the chat were all relatively experienced and so some a couple of validators fully just went I'm
1:02:18
turning off which is a sensible thing to do when [ __ ] gets really [ __ ]
1:02:24
um a couple of validates were like no we can probably recover this um I think it was it was either Crow's
1:02:30
Nest or crypto crew um snapshotted block one and we're like okay with uh from a fresh node with with
1:02:37
verified the correct Genesis and went okay we can we can use this to basically
1:02:42
ensure we're all in the same state ensure on the same Genesis and we can then move forward uh because it's just
1:02:48
just in that patch right so that was it was like okay well may as well give it a
1:02:54
try because otherwise we're going to be doing Mars 2 um which is obviously not ideal
1:02:59
um and so everybody was like right okay we'll use that we'll use that and basically do the do the thing of State
1:03:06
Farm blah blah so everybody sort of discussed that um I or polka or jabby somebody put in a
1:03:16
bullet point list of here's what you do this this state file switch it out
1:03:21
unsafe reset switch so back in the state file put the the data folder from from
1:03:28
CC back in Happy Days right well so one identity okay hang on yeah no no more on
1:03:35
this we get it they didn't maintain their state they [ __ ] up let's move on so on to the main event of why the [ __ ]
1:03:42
this is going to go on for everybody before we move on I just want to clarify I don't think it was fully injector's
1:03:48
fault in this case I think that they they follow directions they're not super experienced node operators that's their
1:03:54
fault that's literally the definition of their fault yeah but they're even they're invited as an investor I don't care I
1:04:02
don't know I think that's a network spell for choosing not experienced validators for a first out of 16. but
1:04:08
also they changed the Genesis three times and like it doesn't matter six hours still doesn't matter you go and
1:04:14
check [ __ ] validators roll for the [ __ ] thing exactly that is a validator's role to figure that [ __ ] out to to look around quarters to how much
1:04:22
the project has [ __ ] up the situation it's literally the validator's role
1:04:28
the last word on this this is if you [ __ ] Tombstone your node it's your fault
1:04:35
yeah that's foreign terrifying when you're having to remake
1:04:40
your way up to the correct round of voting and all you're seeing is tmkms
1:04:46
every third of a second going
1:04:52
given the chat people are sick of listening to us let's [ __ ] hear from
1:04:59
do I have to just rug everyone to be able to move on here yeah I was having fun you know like I
1:05:06
said this is everyone actually let's have a look at the chat get Sizzler on get Sizzler on Sizzler [ __ ] ask Sis
1:05:13
thanks everybody kidding I'm kidding
1:05:19
all right let's get to it okay so what is the topic of the week that we're here to talk to Sister Sizzler about and it
1:05:26
is uh right Dada does next week baby but this is
1:05:32
omniflex so is okay so first question sister is
1:05:40
the is the media doll a da da Dao so it is called the indigen media Dom
1:05:45
and it'll be a doubt about yeah that's right so what is it let me say it's a
1:05:51
cross so is it just so it's a it's on Juno you're the Dow's on Juno yeah and it's
1:05:57
uh is it going to is it going to be an interchange Dow doing things on omniflex
1:06:03
or is it a dow that is to do things but on Juno yeah so at this point in time it can
1:06:10
utilize the omniflex infrastructure uh but we are not thinking of uh like integrating omniflex or any other
1:06:17
network as such you just want to utilize uh proper Dao tooling you know to be
1:06:23
able to manage collectively uh you know organize ourselves and take it to the
1:06:28
next level as a dog so that is why we're using dot dot because we feel it is the most advanced piece of infra you know
1:06:35
from the acquisition it has nothing to do with only flicks actually yeah
1:06:42
um can you tell us a little bit about the the media Dow yeah so okay I'll just set the name uh
1:06:51
right so it is The Interchange media doc so the abbreviation is icmd you know
1:06:57
what but what does this do uh primarily it is a collective of stakeholders uh be
1:07:04
it Core Business Development folks from you know that are representing the chains or the foundations uh it can be
1:07:11
people that are Community managers it can be the developers that are actually working on the technology part it can be
1:07:17
people that are evangelizing the chain as a whole we're not talking about say an influencer or someone that's
1:07:23
representing the chain in multiple contexts but at the same time these are people that are directly working you
1:07:29
know for a network you know for a project uh it can be a d-app as well it need not be a chain as such but uh it is
1:07:36
to involve the stakeholders that are working towards the benefit of a specific piece of tech right and bring
1:07:43
together this Collective and the objective here is to be able to enable better Ops at communication at spreading
1:07:51
awareness in general education right so these might be like uh you know
1:07:57
to an extent these are vague you know it's a lot but at the same time no want to like tackle these step by step yeah
1:08:03
so it's a collective in one in one simple word what would be the what so what are some
1:08:10
of the goals like what would be the the what are you trying to protect or what are you trying to
1:08:16
um what right are we or what wrong are we trying to write with it
1:08:21
what wrong are we trying to write okay so there are there are problems that we saw there are problems that we still
1:08:28
didn't see as an ecosystem so the problems that we saw are is the fact that there might not be consistency in
1:08:36
maybe communication so different networks choose to uh say communicate
1:08:42
with their validators differently be discard speed emails be it like flagged emails emails that are like colored you
1:08:49
know so and so forth everyone has their own preference that is comps with validators what about coms with a
1:08:56
community with their Community right and Community not just refers to like community of Traders but community of
1:09:02
multiple stakeholders right they're talking about developers that are working partners that are implementing
1:09:07
you know working on multiple apps uh you know implementing their own Solutions and so on so forth so here we are first
1:09:14
trying to address the problem around communication and how are
1:09:19
we trying to do that it is in it is by being able to produce consistent
1:09:24
media so there are these formats for governance proposals that we have right now there was a version that was worked
1:09:30
on by figment packed like it was extremely early it was one of the earliest props on the cosmos Hub and uh
1:09:37
you know I think it was for like 5000 atom back then and that was the prop
1:09:43
right like they wanted to they they chose to work on standards for
1:09:49
writing proposals uh showing deploying propositions such Sops or standard operating
1:09:55
procedures did not evolve so when it comes to comms like I'll say I mean
1:10:01
excuse my language but you know the cosmos ecosystem is like not too great
1:10:06
at communication Right comes we are not talking about marketing we are not
1:10:11
talking about spreading awareness we are not talking about anything else like just comps so where does this disparity
1:10:17
lie it is in not having consistency among all the 50 chains right and we aim
1:10:23
to like pick out a branch and address Public Communication with you know with
1:10:29
the media dog yeah interchange media dog okay and and that you mentioned
1:10:35
validators but obviously that there's also a huge focus on creators is that right yeah it is this Collective of of course
1:10:42
creators that are creating video content text image and audio like text audio video image like the four types it can
1:10:49
be people that are writing threads like you know cyborg uh who has joined the informal team then we have the you know
1:10:56
people that are creating video content like all of you you know Sito Liam uh Joe Don and others right people that are
1:11:03
actually creating memes I I do not know who who actually does create uh these
1:11:09
memes but they're out there you know Cosmos means are out there I believe oh yes the fish will stop down
1:11:16
you know but so a question a question that I have like is is the go is the
1:11:23
goal more kind of like um organizational like is it like is it just like to give a a tent for everybody
1:11:30
to piss out of or is it more about that was funny
1:11:37
um is it or is it more about having like um almost being able to coordinate comms
1:11:44
to all those stakeholders so like I don't know like the traditional news analogy would be a wire service right
1:11:50
yeah so whether you're the BBC or whether you're like you run ships and
1:11:56
you're worried about weather right you probably subscribe to a wire service like Reuters right because you want to
1:12:02
know we're going from well I don't know why I want to say
1:12:07
Liverpool but okay we're going to live up from Liverpool we're going from Liverpool like the [ __ ] Beatles mate
1:12:15
um as Noel Gallagher said once uh stop writing songs about how much you hate your parents cut your hair
1:12:22
buy some jeans get rid of those skater shorts and listen to The Beatles I actually [ __ ] hate Oasis but it's a
1:12:29
funny one it's a funny line anyway so we're gonna go from Liverpool to like Caracas right which I think is
1:12:35
landlocked so I don't know why we're doing on a container ship but let's go baby um you're probably gonna subscribe to a
1:12:41
wire service even if you're a shipping company right because you want to know there's no trouble on your destination right whereas if you're the BBC you're
1:12:47
subscribed to a wire service because you're going to write news about it if you're the phrase let's go to a wire
1:12:52
service because you're a sick sick person you know there are many different constituencies who subscribe to a wire
1:12:57
service but the fundamental need is like that top of the funnel news so is the media dial just the coordination or is
1:13:05
it also the the funneling of of of
1:13:10
like factual these are things that are happening yeah so it's like
1:13:16
multi-folders here you'll start with first being able to put together uh people that are you know these
1:13:22
stakeholders the collective internal organization within the ecosystem so these can be people like
1:13:28
say you know sunny and Jake together can talk about my security uh I'll say
1:13:34
better than anyone else in in a specific context now it is the job of like
1:13:40
multiple other content creators to be able to understand what that Tech is the concept break it down into like
1:13:46
independent parts for the community to understand if all of this happens properly there is
1:13:52
enough information accurate information that goes out and at this point in time I'll say because we are a smaller
1:13:58
Community a misinformation doesn't actually spread that as much there's no
1:14:03
information about a few things but it's not really misinformation there are perspectives that's a different story
1:14:09
altogether so first is internal organization then as a media now as this
1:14:14
Collective that's not I'll say that's not representing the cosmos ecosystem but that can be a Gateway for external
1:14:22
people it can be journalists it can be uh yeah it can be external people that
1:14:27
are reporting about Cosmos to ensure they get their facts right we've seen extremely like ex it's it's like
1:14:34
frustrating because we saw so many cases where details about Cosmos have been
1:14:40
represented like inaccurately they've they've not been reported at all they've been like you know butchered to an
1:14:46
extent where people don't understand the idea of whatever we're trying to do and you know these you can say you could say
1:14:53
the ecosystem sorry you could say Kessler you could say you could say prop you could say prop 16 if you like
1:15:01
so many things happen right and uh so many things yeah I mean including the
1:15:07
cosmos definition initially Cosmos Hub Cosmos Network Cosmos ecosystem no one
1:15:12
[ __ ] knew the difference you know nobody still died nobody still does like if you look at any like bit but to be
1:15:21
fair you make a very good point which is that like as an IBC verse like [ __ ] that
1:15:26
[ __ ] the cosmos thing right just as an IBC verse which is increasingly Beyond
1:15:32
SDK chains we lack the ability to talk about the
1:15:39
fact that effectively there is a protocol that is as important as HTTP going on here and
1:15:48
that the real story is like it's it's sort of like that thing about like oh the World Wide Web had to
1:15:55
at some point be called the world wide web and talked about in a coherent way and we're not
1:16:01
there yet like with the IBC version with the interchange in the way we talk about it externally
1:16:07
within the tent when we're all I'm not going to say anything more about the pissing activities of this tent when
1:16:14
we're all in the tent we can all communicate about it very sensibly but like it feels like we do have actually a bit of a blocker about the the way we're
1:16:22
talking about that you know to to to people outside like like you say be it the media be it
1:16:27
ordinary people I mean primarily to the media we have no [ __ ] we have no [ __ ]
1:16:33
a pool or whatever like it seems like all the time was just it's just we've not been able to articulate the
1:16:40
the interchain is important because it's a pro like we just start saying the word protocol until the journalist dozes off
1:16:46
right they're just like yeah no no it's important because there's a protocol that they're like sorry um the
1:16:52
interview ended half an hour ago why are you following me to my cab
1:16:59
I mean I mean good Innovation great Innovation needs articulation right if
1:17:04
you can't articulate this oh you should put that on a poster that's good that's a good one man that's a good one yeah uh
1:17:11
I vote in the chat if you want that on TV I don't know however definitely not original I mean
1:17:18
it's an inspiration 2022 2023
1:17:25
great communication great I already lost it articulation
1:17:32
so definitely you know that is important I think you know that is important because developers don't communicate
1:17:39
like people that are technical enough they don't have the patience to be able to ride a doc sit down you know we can
1:17:45
take chat gpt's help but that wouldn't benefit quite a lot and uh you know yeah
1:17:50
eventually we get lost in the translation no one understands what we're trying to do as an interchange ecosystem you know even even personally
1:17:57
to me the industry and ecosystem is a connected network of uh chains that or
1:18:03
protocols apps that utilize IBC it's not about the SDK because you know it can be
1:18:08
much much beyond the SDK and SDK enables like facilitates the creation of easy
1:18:14
creation of sovereign infrastructure right and if that's possible you know everything is and you know people can
1:18:20
now at this point in time like actually build what they dream to like on a dld T
1:18:25
and without having to like depend on you know other infrastructure like say uh
1:18:31
predefined uh you know predefined protocols on ethereum and things like that they can utilize the SDK to do
1:18:37
whatever they want so yeah 100 and that is one of the reasons why it is The
1:18:43
Interchange media dog hopefully scales to a level where we'll be able to produce enough content produce quality
1:18:50
high quality content that can attract Talent more than media more than like you know of course one day when it
1:18:56
attracts talent and it has like enough useful stuff you know attract money too you know
1:19:02
yeah so if we boil this down a little bit is this going to effectively be like its own let's say like its own magazine
1:19:09
for like a better you're gonna go to open media Dow to see the most current up-to-date events
1:19:14
uh in the IBC ecosystem that's news uh we don't want to be a
1:19:21
news reporting agency you know for that matter uh so the format that we thought
1:19:26
of like this was actually way before all the props around content and when
1:19:31
everything else came about uh on the hubby in the ecosystem so yeah we
1:19:37
thought of a model this was actually for omniflex you know back in August where we thought of like you know I'm not sure
1:19:45
if many know but in 2021 uh uh the entire year from Jan till about
1:19:51
end of year we produced water a series called conversations with Jack with Jack Johnson and that was like you know one
1:19:59
of one series it was way before uh cryptocito I think I don't think crypto
1:20:05
was in the ecosystem back then but when that happened it was a series of episodes like video episodes and people
1:20:12
it it was informative from what I can tell and the feedback that we received but it didn't have like quite a lot of
1:20:19
views and things like that that inspired us to produce
1:20:25
predetermined informative content for every ecosystem right so let's say I
1:20:30
have mass let's say Juno right there are 100 validators take 52 weeks in a year even if you cover two validators per
1:20:37
week 100 validators are not covered 150 Wireless is definitely not covered right and that's a lot of content to produce
1:20:43
even if it's a 30 minute video right and this way if you look at like four networks there are 400 validators of
1:20:50
course there's an overlap but how is National contributing to Juno versus how National contributes to Atmos
1:20:57
are like two different things right and we want the atmos Community to know their reason uh the Juno Community to
1:21:04
know their reason and you know this was the format that we thought was
1:21:09
required because not a lot of there is no no you're validator know your node kind of a program you know that was what
1:21:16
we thought after that things changed right like things drastically changed from an
1:21:22
operational standpoint coordinating all of this you know from you know not as Omni clicks but uh you
1:21:28
know as an interchange media dog then we spoke to Jake dimi you know uh the junior team of course supported and then
1:21:35
cryptocito or D5 you know friends validated uh Liam Chango you know all of
1:21:41
all of them uh you know went ahead showed their support uh during Cosmos and even after that we started to
1:21:48
onboard like one uh one creator after another starting with video then with
1:21:54
you know then we'd move on to text and then the other formats so this is what we thought of but uh at the same time
1:22:00
you know it it it is taking time and we haven't been able to like Focus 100 on
1:22:06
on the Ops around interchange media dog so that was the delay but it is not like
1:22:11
you know this is this is we believe is uh time you know has a longer shelf life
1:22:16
so it's not like a one two week or even if there's a one month delay it's not like you know like life changing as such
1:22:23
but at the same time once we start the consistency is important like like how you guys are doing right 49 weeks
1:22:30
consistently every week so yeah 2100 UTC on a Wednesday like And
1:22:38
subscribe don't miss an episode because we don't [ __ ] it's killing me Maybe not maybe not the first week of March though
1:22:45
yeah so um sisler I I do have a question um so Dows are good and all but
1:22:53
presumably people producing the content from the Dow need to get paid dizzled so
1:23:00
like what is the uh model for monetizing the the output
1:23:06
this is straight up service right it'll be most likely it'll be a case of
1:23:12
revenue from day one it is either uh okay I'll say it is it is either Social
1:23:17
Capital that we receive or direct tokens or you know grants and so on so forth we've been exploring models a community
1:23:24
pool approach might work in some cases but that was before a lot of the you
1:23:29
know uh before a lot of the action on Twitter right the current resistance to [ __ ]
1:23:36
funding anything right so you know it is important that
1:23:42
uh the community has also understood is able to differentiate between proposals so there is this mixed approach of
1:23:49
asking the community pool as well as talking to the foundations for being able to produce content like this so
1:23:55
let's just imagine right uh I mean talking about numbers if there is a community of 100 validators that wants
1:24:02
to like cover make an episode like create an episode featuring every validator 100 episodes
1:24:07
20 minutes each you know even if they show the the host might take say I don't
1:24:14
know like these are my these might be wrong numbers I might be setting wrong expectation but let's just say they take
1:24:20
50 for those 20 minutes you know and uh X Y and Z cost post pre-production they
1:24:26
all sum up to 100 so 100 validators ten thousand dollars one year consistent
1:24:33
content completely neutral revenue from day one that is the revenue model that we thought of as well while also being
1:24:40
able to like license content not license but you know take permission from the creators that already have video content
1:24:47
Runner 24 7 broadcast and be able to monetize this broadcast you know that
1:24:52
was why I pinged Frey and then this episode happened so
1:24:58
you know we we were supposed to you know have this discussion around that specific thing where we could take uh
1:25:04
permission from you because on YouTube there's a copyright strike and you know you got you ought to take permission
1:25:10
before you can utilize well the danger is if you take any of the game of nodes content you know we will get the drugs
1:25:16
you're getting a copyright struck because we get copyright struck like every time we use our outro or uh we you
1:25:24
know just randomly play parts from a band Kingsley film in the middle of the episode where Billy badass and we don't
1:25:32
give a [ __ ] because it's just
1:25:37
yeah it's hard to you know censor all the curse words and you know yeah we got
1:25:44
demonetized before minute one on this one which it's not even a new man [ __ ] am I kidding like but it's
1:25:51
um Paul's camera has cost us so much in Revenue it's incredible it is very crisp today though isn't it it is Noah's
1:25:58
camera does look
1:26:04
Australia um you've got to be in the pocket on this camera if you're outside the pocket
1:26:10
you just are a [ __ ] blur it's like looking at you through 40 year old eyes it's good though because it means you
1:26:15
you you're not able to jerk around so much there's a nice kind of anti-adhd mechanism kind
1:26:22
of temperature I'm sure he's jerking a lot you see how it doesn't refocus every 30 seconds bro thought about getting a
1:26:29
new camera lately or I'm not buying a new camera I've got more expenses
1:26:36
or maybe work out how to use the one you got well just tell [ __ ] Razer to make
1:26:46
that little child gamer cameras compatible with a real OS like Mac OS X
1:26:53
so sisler are you saying that I can uh go to the media now with my 50 bucks and
1:26:59
get like a meme built can I get a theme song
1:27:09
no that's that's called Fiverr yeah
1:27:15
well that's where you went to do your taxes yeah I abandoned that though I went
1:27:21
there initially I found it wasn't a good idea the the right move is just to keep changing your accountants until you get
1:27:26
the answer we want which we covered last week so it's it's still it's such a fine line between stupid and clever yeah
1:27:34
just that little turn about a little bit about
1:27:42
um yeah sister I don't know if you've got the uh the same kind of tax problems that we've got but oh don't bring it to
1:27:49
the tax for Jesus Christ
1:27:56
if you want to talk about some dramas but if you don't talk about meter anymore there's plenty more drama there's the Dex prop there's Alliance
1:28:03
you know what what the [ __ ] up with that I want to point out that the aim today Comet tender man what the [ __ ] the the
1:28:11
artist formerly known as tender men consensus so I want to point out that the the
1:28:17
funnest thing in the um actual game of knows today is the spreadsheet which uh
1:28:23
you know I'm I'm here reading um and I've just muted everyone because [ __ ] the Freighters goes on but uh
1:28:29
the like and more more lines from the spreadsheet Jesus plays no more topics
1:28:36
immediately after in capitals need more topics and uh it is just full of [ __ ] today
1:28:43
it's hilarious
1:28:55
yeah seriously okay we're taking the mid rates away from you like it's gonna be like uh over extended your admin right
1:29:02
access the phrase is ridiculous constantly [ __ ] probably having to edit out all of us talking over the top
1:29:08
of each other all the time difficult well it's tough It's also tough because you're because your mouth
1:29:14
is four seconds behind your audio Yeah I know enjoy that always you I know so
1:29:20
Cislo back to the media why why did you start this like what was I understand like that your kind of reasoning but
1:29:26
like what was what was the real kind of underlying passion and why did you guys decide to do it is um is it is it an
1:29:32
omniflex structure is this is it a whose Endeavor is it omniflex is it cisless Endeavor like what and and what really
1:29:38
was the uh the event that pushed it over the edge to say this is something we want to do
1:29:45
[Laughter] it is like a disappointment in my face I
1:29:51
actually got an actual question out sorry no no I was expecting this to happen
1:29:59
Okay it didn't happen to me but uh well that's not happening I thought I thought
1:30:06
about it I thought about it very strongly and I realized that we would become the most hated people of the
1:30:12
Coswell seriously you can't put them on we put him on ice for 65 minutes and then you run them at an hour 30. this
1:30:17
will be the first episode though the in kind of honored guest terms this would be the first first episode in I think 15
1:30:26
or maybe more episodes where we've gone over the time because there's many you have so much drama and we talked over
1:30:32
Sizzler for so long but I do take all the spaces out of our [ __ ] so actually this is this this episode is
1:30:39
probably like 46 minutes yeah so on podcast players it's probably like 25 minutes long podcast interview entirely
1:30:45
with Sizzler's content and it's just like wow they really didn't cover Comet bft or anything in that ass it's no
1:30:52
mention of comfio yeah you can probably answer that question now yeah yeah so yeah this is
1:31:01
so this is I'll say uh uh it is a personal thought that the
1:31:08
team had first even before omniflex of course uh being the selfish people we
1:31:15
are we thought of doing it with omniflex infrastructure and uh after that we
1:31:21
realized that it is more than omniflex and eventually we came to a point where
1:31:26
we realized that this was not our I mean not just our problem but if done right
1:31:31
as a collective you know this can solve like multiple other problems and yield far more greater results right because
1:31:37
as omniflex maybe you know we can do x y z but I mean like a few things but as a
1:31:43
collective there's a lot more that we can do uh the first glimpse of what I saw the
1:31:50
yeah there were multiple groups in the cosmos ecosystem but the first one for non-technical folks was I'll say the the
1:31:56
cosmos VIP I'm not sure if uh people are aware of that that's like a pretty old
1:32:02
group that had a lot of the interactions three three uh launch of the Hub or
1:32:08
three 2020 but the cosmos BD telegram group uh I'll say has benefited like
1:32:15
quite a lot of people I'm not sure you know if anyone keeps a track of that but
1:32:20
regardless of uh you know any value exchange you know it being a doubt it's just a group and uh you know it
1:32:27
benefited the quite a lot of people I know personally because like uh we've been introing like
1:32:33
helping others connect uh we've received uh in like intros from others and so on so forth so that happened that was like
1:32:40
one key point when we realized that as a collective this will be beneficial and at Cosmos uh you know it was like
1:32:48
finalized no completely and with support from Juno I mean there's nothing for
1:32:53
Juno or Jake or you know DME to actually support in terms of their time effort energy but just from an ideology
1:33:00
standpoint and how things can like work uh you know specifically within the ecosystem and how they plan to take this
1:33:06
forward you know definitely that that was helping initially and you know then with the others yeah
1:33:15
I'll say anymore it is more like an omniflex initiative uh within the cosmos
1:33:21
ecosystem just like how you know game of nodes is the initiative of all of you guys
1:33:27
that's really yeah I think you had a lot more forethought than we did in the game of node
1:33:33
structure this was just this could have happened by accident here we are but this is this episode is
1:33:40
in a lot of ways the the purest form of okay it's episode because like semiology
1:33:46
we should we should get on a call and I was like I know of a call that everybody
1:33:52
will be on it's 2100 UDC game of nodes every Wednesday don't adjust your set
1:34:00
this is not there is this this is this is happening this is you're not you're not tripping balls
1:34:05
[Laughter] you're inside the Ted pissing out you're
1:34:12
not outside the tent again welcome to game of notes welcome every time you do that every time you do
1:34:18
that fake rug now I'm gonna do the full intro and that will just make it even more confusing and even more psychedelic
1:34:25
for anybody listening later it's gonna be like so many epic like opportunities for rugging it's just I mean yeah
1:34:32
there's there's a kind of interesting thing now though because we everybody expects that we actually will rug like
1:34:38
pretty aggressively um that when you do the when you do the rug pull of the rug
1:34:44
it's like it's [ __ ] layers on this show it's just like oh it's the end now okay cool
1:34:51
layers yeah like well I was going to say bretty and alienation but I don't think it is bright in alienation because bretty and alienation is is the
1:34:58
repetition creating a lack of meaning isn't it whereas this is just
1:35:04
this is just something we've attained some higher level of post-modernism here which I I lack the
1:35:12
somebody in the chat must have also done a Humanities degree help me what what is the term is this hyper is this hyper
1:35:18
real is that what we've done is this hyper reality all right now is this a real law
1:35:25
[Music]
1:35:36
thank you [Music]