well that's that's the best you're getting out of the microphone I can't have it any closer to my face
0:18
[Music]
0:26
hello and welcome to game of nodes a weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent validator teams and others
0:32
once again on walkabouts so sorry about the bird noise in the background um he's a he's he's in a bit of land
0:39
known as belonger Mick and uh and he's Unapologetic about not putting
0:45
the microphone close to his face and that's about as much as what I should use as we've got to open the show with I
0:52
know exactly as you hit the go as exactly as you hit the Go Button my mouse [ __ ] itself now I can't do
0:58
anything I can't even mute the friggin the the microphone for the birds you just gotta hold it straight to your
1:04
[ __ ] face then for the rest and talk constantly so no one can hear the the background noise what what birds do you
1:10
have where you are right now now ones with wings and bakes and bullets in them if I ever get a hold of them
1:18
Sensational okay can you are you allowed to just hunt birds in Australia what are the hunting regulations like I don't
1:25
think you're supposed to just shoot Birds if I'm being honest to hold it at your face I don't think you're supposed to just
1:33
shoot the birds I mean literally the sound quality is so much better when you when you do that I don't know why you
1:39
just need to sort this out it's
1:45
was complaining about sounding tinny um in the group chat earlier and we were
1:52
like you need to have the mic closer to your face that's the solution and uh I
1:58
didn't know that In fairness the uh the solution that we've chosen to go with is
2:03
Jake's solution of just holding your microphone shocking kind of just do like a talking
2:09
head type thing it's Talking Heads I'm thinking of right maybe anyway
2:14
um so I've missed this somebody say titties thanks Robert uh yeah I mean to
2:19
be honest I could go for a beer right now I've been I've been doing I've been doing actual work for 12 hours and it's
2:25
uh tiring how do people work with their hands all day anyway
2:30
um so I haven't seen any Cosmos News for the last 24 hours what's happened
2:38
uh I don't think I've seen any Cosmos students in the last 24 hours
2:44
it's uh but we had like four gov props I think in a week
2:50
since the last episode didn't we or something on Juno and we had like two on stargaze I think there's there's a bunch
2:56
of new contracts getting deployed I'm trying to think other networks the problem is we only about the very validate three networks so so I'm kind
3:03
of relying with you guys to tell it on Juno there's a lot on Juno to talk about with the sub-dials and also the um the
3:11
new core one sub-dow proposal that's incoming with The Fray as a named core
3:18
one member oh is that actually live now no it's in
3:24
Commonwealth oh okay all right not hugely surprising the timing is a little surprising okay I
3:31
should probably know that but you should and Max do you know oh I I think it's up on Commonwealth anyway I'm sure the link
3:37
that I clicked on was on Commonwealth if not oops
3:44
so and sorry there's I've just been distracted by the fact there's Big Bird chat in the uh in the uh in the in the
3:51
Stream chat and uh no it's just just [ __ ] off I was going
3:56
to ask him a question about very large Australian birds um uh have you ever seen a cassowary like
4:02
that was by yeah like no have you ever seen a cassowary
4:09
like it's you know it's an Australian thing but they're like like actual [ __ ] dinosaurs they're crazy don't
4:15
they have like a big thing in their nose like a huge like a yeah they have to get the dinosaur or
4:20
something right thin thing yeah and uh I don't know if
4:26
it's the only time somebody's been killed by one in the last while but I'm pretty sure a Florida man was killed by
4:32
one the other year no [ __ ] no that's that's no no surprise there yeah it's like a meme isn't it the
4:38
Florida man thing it's like Florida man killed by cassowary even though it's a thing from Australia yeah I mean if
4:45
you've been to Florida then it becomes less of a joke because Florida's just insane
4:51
why why is Florida so insane I mean it's it's just kind of like hot and humid right what it's in the tropics man you
4:58
get tropical animals well I mean if you want an actual answer I can break down more an actual answer
5:04
but I would say a big problem is like there's a very large immigration
5:09
Community there immigrant Community there as well as that's where a lot of the uh the snowbirds go so you mix those
5:15
two things together and it just ends up in this really strange microcosm of
5:20
somehow like an absolute insane amount of culture and the worst suburbs in the
5:26
world hitting at the same time it's just bizarre so it's snowbirds is that retired people
5:34
I'm taking a punt uh not necessarily retired people people that are like
5:40
that when the snow comes in the northern bit they move down to their their home down in Florida to stay warm same thing
5:46
with like Arizona um they just they basically migrate themselves you know four five six to
5:51
eight South down to Florida or Arizona uh not so much Texas I don't know if I've heard of snowbirds going to Texas
5:58
but if you have to work how do you do that I mean like pre-covered I guess
6:05
foreign yeah so I guess it would imply retired
6:10
folks okay well I it's we're laughing and learning or except we want too many
6:16
laughs in that Florida bit after the Dead Guy bit which was I guess dark in hindsight anyway
6:23
um so yeah cassowaries that's the thing um subdials that's another thing I guess
6:30
um I do see that uh I'll put a link in the show notes but I see that Commonwealth to be able to convert core one to an official sub-dial and I see
6:37
two additional members the freight and Max Juno getting pulled in
6:42
yeah I guess people were finally [ __ ] tired of um me having opinions on get
6:48
commits so I have to stop doing stop doing day-to-day uh complaining about
6:56
about Goku I guess what can we do to shut this guy up what can we do just shut this guy up promoter let's just
7:04
make him a middle manager okay strategy as old as time if there's an example of the Peter
7:10
Principle that's more fun I don't don't really know I don't really know of one
7:16
um but yeah so that's that's the thing um we'll see how that thrashes out what
7:22
are they called the mafia they opened up the books your name is in there is that what they call it yeah maybe yeah is that is that a guy
7:30
ringing the neck of an emu it is
7:40
a mouse he's just talking away himself
7:48
was mentioning the Emu war and uh this is like you know some graphic that someone's
7:54
made regarding the Emu War I guess I mean that guy's just trying to pack that emu they're notoriously dangerous so you
8:00
don't want to let them you know just pack out your face while you're trying to Pat them oh he's paying it he's not ringing a
8:06
snack no he's it's that's a loving caress it's gonna be very strange
8:13
uh I I can't really verbally describe what we're looking at but it's a kind of mock
8:20
um remember the Fallen picture for the Emu War which has a guy
8:27
on the background of the Australian flag yeah why is the flag in there he looks like he's sort of ringing the neck of an
8:33
emu like in battle but actually uh Nala's saying that he's just respectfully patting the Emu and it just
8:39
looks a bit weird um so yeah you can look that up for yourself uh so and and yeah okay that's
8:47
just that's just an emu with what looks like a small artillery piece
8:52
stuck to its back and laser eyes I think that might be photoshopped actually I'm
8:57
not gonna lie Lads none of these are photoshopped these are all one-to-one definitely not definitely
9:05
for sure uh but most of the chat says ah ah yes
9:10
the Great War
9:15
um uh yeah describe that one [Laughter] um so the the picture that I this is
9:24
that we could we need to actually move on to some content in a second but I will indulge you before we move on the
9:29
picture that we have been shown is um that it's a famous
9:35
um War uh correspondent photo from from Vietnam I believe of a village was was
9:40
bombed with with uh Napalm and and the photographer took it took a photo of
9:47
children running away from it and they were predominant mainly naked I guess because they were taking off their clothes because I guess Napalm was stuck
9:53
to it um and there are also somebody is photoshopped very
9:58
sensitively photoshopped emus running away from the village into that very famous
10:06
photograph so that enough of that welcome to gaming mode
10:12
okay guys it's like it's like the worst Google
10:20
image search ever just null throws up a random image and you make The Fray talk about it and describe it to others
10:26
it's an awful AI
10:31
we did have a thing at a company where I used to work at where you had to try it it was kind of like Pictionary you had to describe a meme in words uh at the
10:38
end of stand up yeah it was really hard like surprisingly hard um Because unless they're like really
10:44
good like the butterfly meme that wasn't around at the time but if it was that would have been really good because you're just like oh it's like
10:50
you know very easy to describe the the kind of setup that um I I'm not
10:57
necessarily know what I'm looking about now I'm not going to describe that one um can chat GPT take images yet and
11:03
describe them that's gonna be next right have you guys been messing around with that at all yeah man but a friend a
11:10
friend uh tried um uh it was something like can you tell me
11:17
a story about Harry Styles while insinuating that he was involved in 9 11.
11:23
um and that that was basically he he tried a lot of different things and the
11:29
only point where the GPT said nah I actually I I'm out I can't do it anymore
11:34
dad was was that one um it was like yeah tell me a poem about Harry Styles while insinuating that he
11:41
was involved in 911 and it was like I'm sorry I can't I I can't fill that request
11:47
but until then it was very impressive it is pretty phenomenal it's amazing
11:53
yeah we were just talking and it never says uh well to me anyway it's never
11:58
said like sorry can't do that it just uh he just comes up with something that
12:04
makes entirely lots of sense I I asked it some random stuff about like contracts uh and construction and just
12:12
various things to do with like civil engineering and it was like
12:18
pretty good yeah are you saying that you're just going to hook it up to your like work
12:24
DMS and just see if it can take over your job for you
12:30
I honestly there's no joke about that we're today we're mastering out we were doing like we're asking for 500 word
12:35
blog posts on specific topics and it was writing blog posts that we could easily just publish on like a wide range of
12:42
different topics um like benefits of this in specific Industries and this and that and like
12:48
there there was we were talking about just like could I make it where I could just give it ideas and pipeline it directly into Twitter because there's a
12:56
ton like the some of the outcome that we saw that was it was like not too technical in nature but it was pretty
13:03
pretty damn impressive actually so when does someone make like a um chat
13:09
G PT bot that just talks for you on Twitter
13:15
probably already have yeah honestly you could probably you could wire that up I would just reply replies to uh I
13:23
wonder if uh chat can can talk um in pupmo speak
13:31
uh I don't know we should ask we should ask Bob Moss um
13:37
actually in the chat has said that asking the pop bot to write a poem about
13:44
Harry Styles while insinuating that he was involved in 9 11 has actually killed the pop bot and that we have blood on
13:50
our hands so um yeah that's uh
13:57
that's where we're at it's 13 minutes into the show we've killed the part bot 911 was oh it was an inside job unless
14:05
Harry Styles is also a member of the US government or was he a member of the US government in 2001 he'd been about five
14:11
years old with me so probably not so potmore says wait have you not talked to
14:16
my bot I thought he was a book
14:21
well oh there's there's a pop bot in um in
14:28
Telegram all right so not part Mars himself yeah
14:33
it's a GPT pop pop huh have you not
14:39
we're late Jake was posting um I think he's on Twitter the other day that he had asked putt-pop
14:46
um screenshots anyway Buffalo says my bill is three
14:54
thousand dollars a month make a blog post for me
15:00
um yeah that sounds like yeah uh something something anyway um
15:05
so I there's a couple of um I can't talk oh yeah there's I was gonna say there's
15:11
something there's this week so I say oh this is exciting new chains and things happening and I remember that none of
15:17
them were announced yet we're not supposed to talk about them so I agree I was like but but okay but it's what I
15:24
have noticed is there seems to be more Cosmos projects kind of coming out of the woodwork with real real real use
15:31
cases and whatnot sort of in the last few days in the last couple of weeks like really conveniently when I had zero
15:38
time people being like hey can you provision a box because the test Net's about to start and you're like
15:44
I can barely put my socks on at the moment Lads but yes 100 let's go
15:51
um but yeah it's kind of it's going to be interesting like I still wonder we you know the conversation we happened the
15:57
other week about uh tokenomics in a bear market and how projects launching might
16:03
have to do things like pretty differently um I do Wonder quite a bit about that because we're still I don't know what
16:11
maybe facing a year a year more of this stuff and uh it's gonna you know
16:19
whether or not people actually actively start turning off validators like we were kind of again talking about last
16:24
week or the week before uh you know new chains have got to first acquire the validators like
16:30
quality validators and then retain them right which you know involves making money so
16:38
uh yeah but then are you thinking about it almost all the new chains that I've
16:43
heard of uh going for more of a kajira model which is interesting
16:49
you mean like no inflation yeah either either no inflation and a
16:55
fixed Supply or uh some kind of mechanism where uh increase in Supply is
17:02
not the primary way that validators and stakers would earn income and in some
17:08
cases even trying to actually make fees uh like a meaningful part of the revenue model which is
17:14
not really thinking Cosmos you know so do you think that's because um null just bashes pumpernomics on game
17:22
of nodes do you think we have that much influence that people are starting to change their ways
17:28
yes a hundred percent
17:33
I don't feel I need to elaborate any further it's just a straight yes it's three years uh everybody everybody's
17:39
designed their tokenomics they they've got the final draft ready to go they watch one of these episodes and they're
17:45
just like hold on can't disappoint no we better delete all that we better start over fellas we better
17:53
start over um yeah so um so the the other uh
18:00
the other Commonwealth uh things on Juno then are I'm not even sure which one's
18:06
alive and which ones aren't because it's all been so much back and forth flying around between
18:12
you know bits and pieces so I might I don't know if this is Alpha but I'm
18:19
pretty sure it's on Commonwealth as well so there's the the Constitution for a Juno which they're trying to make good
18:27
hey guys on Commonwealth yeah in Commonwealth yeah and then um
18:34
there was no other sub-dials though on uh actually live at the moment was there
18:40
so there's the there's the make um make open source great again uh
18:46
proposal yeah the the unenforceable open source proposal round
18:51
two yeah the uh the fixed up one the the more inclusive of information one I
18:58
guess you would say from 59 so the Juno tell the the loop Finance uh
19:07
Grant passed its uh signaling proposal um yeah
19:13
I mean look it was a piss-poor effort by everyone who voted on this because the
19:19
abstains were 55.8 percent which is just
19:24
I think we I think we might have abstained to be fair um look but then I think looking through
19:31
this list King nodes also abstained so thank you
19:38
I think the thing with this one was that I I as a representative from needlecast
19:44
ammo was on who doesn't exist anymore the Terra Development Fund and the
19:49
terror Development Fund collectively decided to put that back to the community before it was funded so in
19:56
essence I and we as an organization have already voted which is to put it to the
20:02
community and so we voted abstain because it was it's up to our delegators
20:08
on that one to make their voice heard because the whole point I think of putting that
20:14
to the community was that sure validation should have their say um and the community should have their
20:19
say but uh core team members that have already had some input either talking to
20:24
the tdf people and raising concerns or talking to tdf people and supporting them or any of those other things I
20:32
think those arguments have already been played out so it kind of felt important to just abstain rather than taking a
20:38
default position for delegators whether or not that many of our delegators actually did vote I don't know
20:45
um I hope they did because it's quite an important one and I think there is
20:50
um foreign we're all businesses right we all run
20:57
businesses and I think that there's two different perspectives on the loop thing right one of them it me as an individual
21:03
taking off responsibility hat I would be worried about funding an
21:09
organization that hasn't monetized that doesn't have a route to monetization and
21:15
have a very small Runway before they run out of cash I would worry that giving them 100K or I think it was is it 150k
21:22
or something like that I don't know it's quite it's quite a chunk of change um giving them a chunk of money before
21:29
they slam into a brick wall is kind of pointless you may as well just back pocket the cache and use it
21:36
for something else rather than giving it to a uh yeah just putting it in a car that's about to smash into a wall and
21:42
then catch fire like the money's gone um but then you know with my
21:49
professional hat on contracts the contract and there's an imply contract there it sets a very bad precedent I
21:55
think to say you're going to fund a team and they're not and not fund them if they
22:01
have met their milestone on the same page as you sorry I'll
22:09
continue my thought usurper after you um say what you're thinking mate to that point why did the tdf push us out to a
22:15
gov vote what what why it's already fifths it's five six is
22:21
already gone like who cares like you already have you already have 90 of it deployed now you're gonna go to the
22:28
community and say hey do they deserve the rest like what kind of what is that if the tdf agreed on the last five out
22:34
of six payments why are they pushing this last one to this uh I think because there was
22:41
increasing descent over time on
22:47
that's not the way these things work is delivering that's not the way these things work like you can't build a bond
22:53
and then have and put a group in place and then when times get tough and they can't agree you punt like either either
22:58
you're fun you're gonna then then like you can make that case on every single thing like well we're not really sure but we're gonna make the decision on 1.2
23:05
million dollars but this last 200k We can't agree on so we're gonna punt it like that's ridiculous
23:10
yeah yeah I mean I for what it's worth I was just kind of
23:16
like either pay them or don't pay them but just do it with the sub-dial
23:21
um and yeah and then kind of move on like learn from the learn from the thing but if I've learned one thing from the
23:28
last year especially from like prop 16 and stuff when the community are increasingly angry about a thing
23:34
sometimes it is better to just ask them um but but but then you know there is the classic thing I can't remember who
23:40
said it but there's like this classic thing in sort of British governance which is obviously totally ironic during the last few years that we are a clown
23:46
car of a country in terms of governance at the moment but there is an established supposed thing with MPS
23:53
which is that you should be in a position like leadership as being in the position of voting against the people that elected you for the good of the
23:59
people that likes you right so there is an argument that that basically tdf took a step back from that
24:07
I think yeah which I think what you're saying right then then they should be voted on this this prop should be about
24:12
that tdf fund and say should this be the leadership that continues forward because if they can't if they can't
24:19
accurately like because I even asked we've already known in this which which my reasons were different my reasons
24:25
were more around the idea that that final payments should be tied to final deliverables that's why we always we've always been gone and they came back like
24:33
Loop people responded say that's not really what our original agreement was I'm like well what's the regional agreement and they linked to the tdf and
24:39
the tdf is not the or an agreement of any sort um and they have a proposal in there but it doesn't have any deliverables doesn't
24:45
have any dollar amounts it doesn't even have like there's not much in there and so they said well it doesn't match
24:51
the original agreements will show me the original agreement like because if this is in line with the agreement then great you should be paid and if there is no
24:58
agreement what the hell are we doing like why are we giving away like why is this group giving away 1.6 million
25:03
dollars without clear deliverables without clear timelines without clear metrics on on what the bars are to be
25:10
able to receive it like that's unbelievable so I I think that
25:15
um if you take into context to the time and the environment at which the
25:20
agreements were made uh you know tdf before was formed on
25:26
short notice a lot of us didn't even know even people involved with Juno like pretty intimately didn't even know about
25:32
tdf uh it was happening in the background until it was like you know public and the I believe that like you
25:41
know the purpose behind it was to try and get Terror developers onto Juno right at any time and and I think uh you
25:50
know the problem was twofold one on our side there's wasn't a lot of um due
25:56
diligence and structuring of payments right so because everything happened pretty quick they're just like there's
26:02
the proposal like yeah okay let's do it and on the terror side I think that any
26:08
project was just trying to get funded by anyone to continue their payroll right
26:13
and without due regard for like the communities that they were taking that money from
26:20
um and you know without making any real commitments it was just basically to shore up their payroll for the immediate
26:26
future so they could try and find a way forward and look if a project wasn't successfully able to
26:34
sustain itself on terror there's no [ __ ] way that that same model is going to successfully sustain itself on
26:41
Juno with the amount of users and the and the um right and the way that Juno
26:46
works with fees and yeah yeah so unless they plan to fund them indefinitely
26:52
until they figured out how to actually make money I mean a lot of projects are coming in to crypto running the same
27:00
sort of model as what you do with your your free and then freemium and then subscription
27:06
model type stuff in in real Tech right um and it just doesn't [ __ ] work here
27:12
because the people who are funding it are the the they're already funding you know the users are funding these people
27:18
it's not the money doesn't come from Juno the network the money comes from Juno's users out of the liquidity pools
27:24
absolutely and This 1.2 million dollars that they're given to a loop for
27:30
absolutely you know well in my view not much return in terms of product it's
27:37
just come straight out of the pockets of regular users and I don't think that's good
27:43
um and I think that you know that should be the option of the if the community want to renege on a promise that was
27:49
made by a sub-down well sub-dials are governed by the community now right so
27:55
if they want to pull the pin on something it's it's up to them to have the opportunity to do that but at the
28:01
same time it's not a good look for the the network as a community to make make
28:07
an agreement and then break it um but so it's a culmination of a bunch
28:12
of different issues and that's I agree with you there like if if they are going to break it if they're going to break a
28:19
commitment this this to me is like the that tdf team just punting it to the
28:24
community to make the community the bad guy right which didn't work in this situation because they passed it but then like we're not strong enough to
28:30
actually break that commitment we're not going to have that press around it we're going to see if the community wants to do it
28:35
um but at the same time like as as I say every every sub-dow is and yeah the tdf
28:42
was formed before before the subdata prop but right everything up there is
28:48
um you know beholden to the community there and so if the community now want to change something or their voice
28:54
should be heard in this example there was a lot of noise being made about that
29:00
particular um funding agreement so I mean if the people want to be heard they should be
29:06
heard in my opinion yeah um they should do that and and the community the
29:11
community now um I.E governance Aunt weighs any subdial because that's
29:18
the that's how the subdials were put forward as as um you know
29:23
entities that are governed by the community now so ultimately the decision
29:30
sits with the community now if they want to override anything um or get rid of users or whatever so
29:36
that I mean is it an ideal situation no um but is it like
29:42
the situation that we have yes do I think personally that they should have got their funding probably not but in
29:48
terms of not reneging on a deal I I think they you know we should just close out the deal it's right at the end
29:55
um they'll deliver whatever they want God knows if they're even going to stay on Juno uh right right but I think going
30:01
forward we need to make like way better decisions on what we fund and
30:06
how we fund it and as you say usurper I completely agree that we should be based on
30:12
um you know outcomes rather than promises and pay on outcome not promises
30:17
yeah and and I I know I also want to recognize the The Rush that it happened
30:23
when when Tara collapsed and and basically pulling a group together to be able to identify funding to go try to
30:30
entice projects come in I'm totally not I'm totally for that like I understand that pressure and that timing it was
30:36
also you know seven months ago so there were seven months of time to be able to put structure around this as a tdf right
30:42
and then every time that they're throwing Juno out the door in one of these six payments or in these six types
30:48
of things somebody somewhere should be like so what happens at the end of this and what does this look like and are we
30:53
on track and like that is the role of that tdf fund and that that Dao
30:59
um like they should be measured and so I I just think like I agree with the idea that the Community Fund drives it and
31:04
blah blah and all that kind of idea like that's it's very Pie in the Sky type structure around it like you can't govern things like this in a in a
31:11
community fashion like at some point somebody's got to look at the deliverables somebody's got to look at the outcome um somebody has to be able to settle up
31:17
that agreement to say that they met that or not and if that team isn't there then they should be then they should have a
31:23
more structured kind of you know fund out that has some better guard rails and people have experience in doing that
31:29
because this seems like this is this seems like a railroad like they just kind of threw it in there and there's a bunch of dollars in Juno that's going
31:35
out there you're right it's coming out of the pockets of the community like it's a large chunk of money over a pretty short period of time
31:41
and to not have anything tied to the end and just kind of like hoping and if they and there's nothing stopping them from
31:47
building it here and during and bring it to another chain or starting their own right there's nothing here that ties That to Juno correct
31:53
yeah it's not there's nothing right there's no like service agreement that says you know if
31:59
you find you you have to operate on us for the next 10 years like right you know we own your IP there's nothing like
32:05
that right um but I mean one thing I think a fundamental problem
32:12
um usurper is that I don't think people fully understand that the community pool
32:17
is not 200 million dollars the community pool is not a hundred
32:22
million dollars the community pool is nothing it's it's nothing it's it's
32:27
tokens that aren't in circulation right and as soon as you bring them into circulation they become a liability
32:34
against the liquidity pills and you know I just I don't think people get it I
32:40
think they see the number on the screen and the number is big and they think
32:45
that there's plenty of money to throw around like if you can actually look back or something right like they think it's a bank balance yes it is not a bank
32:52
balance no it absolutely isn't and there's unless you can um swap it
32:58
OTC um you're gonna destroy the price when you you get rid of any of that so if you go and look at the liquidity pools I
33:04
don't know what's in the liquidity pools for General at the moment but I'm I'm tipping it's probably about five million dollars or something like that maybe
33:10
that's generous so I mean that's all that's available and so there's not 200
33:16
million dollars there's maximum five million dollars if you drained every bit of liquidity out of that pool and
33:22
there's no other way to swap it out so when you give them a hundred thousand Juno that's what two hundred thousand
33:27
dollars that's we'll say five percent of the pool yeah yeah it's a pretty big Market it's
33:34
a big chunk of it it's a chunk yeah so that's that's going to be damaging to the price if they go and
33:39
dump that and look the way you know I imagine they're not happy right now and
33:45
I imagine they might not [ __ ] give a [ __ ] and they might just do that so
33:50
you know it's it's not 200 million dollars it's not 100 million dollars it's whatever's in the liquidity pool
33:56
and it comes directly out of the pocket it uses and so I think you know we need
34:02
to be clearer about that and especially when funding things especially if it's a stupid number like one million dollars
34:10
to fund someone at the moment is basically half of the available liquidity
34:16
well maybe a third it looks like I think the liquidity is 2.6 million looks like
34:22
the price impact on osmosis would be around 10 percent if they just sold to that market
34:28
which is massive ouch yeah yeah so I don't know how we do it but
34:36
users need to be better informed about what drawing on the community pool actually does
34:42
and how it affects them and that it's not just an unlimited pool of money because it's not well there's also like
34:47
long-term stuff isn't there about like how a completely the structuralist style uh essentially
34:55
can better hedge against um market conditions
35:01
because the you know all of like back to the validated dumping that we love to
35:08
talk about at various times but like the reason that you hedge in in Fiat is as a
35:13
business because it is less uh what's it called um less volatile on the whole right so
35:19
you you're you're trying to even out the the market and you don't have you know if you're Akash right now you probably
35:27
cashed out a bunch of dollars at the top of the the bull to see through this bear and you know our Akash can be throwing
35:34
around money to fund projects that don't deliver [ __ ] oh they [ __ ] absolutely not but they do they will have that money
35:41
there and they'll have it in US Dollars you know um and Juno doesn't really have that luxury so the the question is like what
35:49
what as well you know obviously usdc wasn't an option there weren't were
35:54
there any other I mean and usdc is dubiously stable dubiously backed anyway
36:01
um you know do you do you want to get rugged by the next sort of UST collapse as a Cordell which is the
36:09
danger as soon as you transfer out of your native token I don't know um but there's also some questions there
36:15
on like how you diversify your risk when you can only really use cryptographic
36:20
assets um that there's a whole quite interesting debate to be uh to be had
36:28
there I think um as well as yeah sorry we need a we
36:33
need a US dollar backed oh he's Frozen you have to do it jeez do
36:41
the cassowary car behind him let's just pack them in the back of the head just pure Jurassic Park ride
36:48
got it yeah I mean we we need Assets in in the cosmos that aren't you know
36:55
um pipe dreams we need that stuff honestly honestly
37:00
spicy [ __ ] opinion I want a fully collateralized Central Bank
37:08
digital currency in Cosmos phere
37:14
that's my spot I like I I if the bank of England was like yeah all right you can
37:19
cash in pound sterling if you hold them for one to one pound sterling on a
37:25
cosmos blockchain the validators are all run by [ __ ] gcloud providers that's
37:31
it's the same as the gov cloud in the states basically there's a list of providers that can provide services those teams can provide validators I'd
37:38
be like do you know what it's just a decentralized system to to put pounds digital I would use that I would
37:46
properly IBC Juno into into [ __ ] britcoin and then
37:54
I don't know if I want any britcoin but yeah I mean it's Gotta Get the price the price is also going to be pretty volatile isn't it
38:01
[ __ ] brick coin but but but no I I because I think like the mod the the I
38:07
the great irony I think of the current tenement proof of stake mechanism is actually it is quite well suited to to
38:16
running a central bank digital currency in an adversarial environment where validators might be taken down by
38:23
hostile action like actually about 150 nodes ish run by teams that are being
38:29
paid to do so on a contract is actually like it's a pretty [ __ ] resilient
38:35
um distributed system like so I don't know if we're doing phrase hot take corner I I think it would be really good
38:42
if I was the president of the cosmos which of course is is Jason Stein Juan
38:49
um I would be trying to get central banks to join the cosmos that's what I'd
38:55
be doing that's my that's the hot take of the week um so I'm sorry I was I want to pick up
39:02
some someone who you said something really interesting and I've already forgotten we moved on past it before I
39:08
could jump in and be like Oh can we talk about that I don't think it's one of us I think there's something you said sir
39:13
but um we've had a few comments as well so I'm just going to quickly roll back and uh and and cover off cover off some
39:20
things we've had come up in the chat there's been a lot of a lot of chat um
39:26
so uh popmoff says on I think this is a reply to you sir but on the details of
39:32
the original Loop funding it's on the Dow Dow prop potentially not the not the ipfs bit
39:38
um also pupmoss did get a reply from the gpt3 bot which says uh so he said gpt3
39:47
just replied about Harry Styles uh saying popmos is a good boy he always
39:53
tried to do the right thing even when it comes to Harry Styles he knows that Harry is innocent and wasn't involved in
39:59
911 he is just a victim of the media's lies um so there you go that's that's the AI
40:05
bot that's the AI bot addressing insinuations that Harry Styles was
40:11
involved in 9 11. UM oh sorry he's just evicting the media's lies and propaganda was the final bit of
40:19
that um so and then uh Niels had asked what
40:26
do you think about the healthy Mev proposal draft I've not seen that but I guess that's related to is that related
40:32
to skip or is that related to some other Mev mechanism yeah what chain is that you know
40:37
Niels if there's a commonwealth link uh let us know we'll we'll go find it
40:43
and put it in the show notes uh we'll put it in the chat we can discuss this 100 um and then Rama and pubmos were arguing
40:51
about whether or not uh loop would fail um in the chat uh partial match asked uh
40:58
don Kryptonian said funding Loop was a bad idea at the time it was funded many people piled on him over that but was he
41:04
right all along it's interesting isn't it because I think the from kind of behind the scenes
41:10
what like the perspective of sort of being on tdf we were there kind of
41:15
mainly as a technical I guess due diligence so not really a business side so much but uh
41:25
top now what the hell's going on when does the free ever come out sorry to
41:31
sorry to interrupt The Fray but if you if you have a contrarian view on
41:36
everything you're going to be right eventually right foreign
41:41
maybe he got hit in the back of the head with a what was that called the [ __ ]
41:48
that could have happened maybe it's just finally gotten sunstroke from the [ __ ] from that white light
41:55
[Laughter] oh my goodness so anyway pupmoss is also
42:01
on here saying uh you know that the cell pressure is coming from somewhere and obviously I've been investigated and I
42:07
wish they would just say what it was now I'm having to try and look for this unbonding transaction from
42:15
days ago off I think they're referring to the one that came off patmos's validator and try and figure out uh who
42:24
that was because apparently it's related so if you can just give me a link you know
42:30
to the evidence that I can just look at it and then say it instead of having to like make clicks
42:37
uh that'd be great Rama
42:42
have I also Frozen no everyone else's posters were like really still for a second there I was I was actually taking
42:49
a look just real quick around uh um Niels was talking about or somebody mentioned the the uh
42:54
the healthy Mev proposal that is in Juno that is from DME posted it forward so that basically I think what's been
43:01
happening here um is that Here Comes The Fray made it back
43:06
so after we after um skip went live on Juno maybe about a
43:13
month ago plus or minus something like that um there has been a wide variety of of
43:19
you can basically set a commission the structure to the to the Mev transaction so the Mev volume is really low
43:25
um but there is there is and the transaction is not very large but there's some and and those turn into
43:31
some some that commission that comes back through um a Searcher that is basically building
43:38
a bundle that gets included in a block that comes back to the bow and then the skip team made it where you can kind of
43:44
split between where that commission goes you go to a wallet that the validator defines
43:49
um or the rest goes to basically it goes to the mint which basically just goes out not to not to like your delegators
43:56
as a validator just goes to the general mint that just basically goes to anybody who's staked um which is probably the only way you
44:02
can maybe do that because I don't know how you would write that to go identify all about you know delegators for one specific ballot and all that kind of
44:08
stuff um so there's a wide variety of 100 to the mint to zero percent we do the opposite
44:14
way we right now the values are so low that we we take 100 of it which is I think equating to point I don't know
44:20
actually I'll go back and look and see what it is recently it's probably less than 0.8 Juno a day something like that
44:26
maybe 0.5 something like that I don't know maybe Chelsea knows better some numbers on it um so I think dimi in this proposal
44:34
I'll put a link in there as well it's up in Commonwealth right now but they want to basically put some
44:39
um some guidelines around what the validator Max and Min commissions are um similar to what we do like from a
44:45
regular validator commission has a minimum of five percent um here Demi's promoting at a minimum of
44:50
10 of My Rewards go to the Val and a minimum of or a maximum of 75 percent go
44:55
to the vowel um something some similar to that to be able to um kind of build some some rule sets
45:02
around that um so I think you know this is a community-based type of structure I you know we we assume when this came forward
45:09
that there would have to be some sort of community kind of like guideline and some validator guidelines around what
45:14
this is I predicted it would be a race to zero and it instantly was
45:19
um which really benefits nobody honestly it doesn't really benefit the community in any sort of way I mean the numbers at least right now are so small and divided
45:26
by the total amount of stake it's nothing's coming into your wallet from it like if it is it's nine zeros in
45:32
front of that number um and so could it be something more important that we can do with that um and could it be more Revenue that's
45:38
coming through in some sort of way that it goes to something else so we assume that this would be coming I'm glad it's
45:45
here I think we'll put some comments on it I don't know if these are the right numbers um if it makes sense or you know what do
45:52
you guys think about in terms of if if should there be commission structures on this should it be open
45:57
is this the same thing as like regular validator commissions or is there race to zero type of thing or not
46:05
I mean I tend to take the same perspective on commissions one way or another which is there should be a
46:12
minimum and that minimum in my opinion shouldn't be zero yeah so the fact that they're setting a minimum and a maximum
46:17
I think is pretty cool um I think I'll chime in on that Commonwealth thread just to participate
46:23
I mean the thing is it's like it's not like running the additional software is no effort
46:30
right if you're doing some level of due diligence where you're at least you know going and seeing what has changed and
46:35
that does require some effort um to change out the binary it's not a lot but it's still something and in
46:42
running it now you kind of have to like it it requires
46:47
effort one way or another to to to do it so I don't think that
46:54
I think that zero percent can be made an argument for just because then you're sending all the commission
47:00
oh I'm I'm a great validator it's a marketing employee but really
47:05
and especially in the current economic conditions where validators are often not making enough and are starting to
47:11
depart networks I think it makes sense to take some more profit
47:17
yeah and Todd block paint just commented like it's considering zero percent just to make taxes easier which is totally
47:23
true too because actually was talking to them about that too because it's a straight income type of structure and it's just a
47:28
different transaction type that needs to be handled differently um you know versus other transactions that are coming through the wall and
47:33
taxes are a [ __ ] nightmare enough as they are so sometimes for small numbers it's not even worth it like just it's
47:40
better just to ignore them and just let them go back to the community yeah so sorry we're talking about the Mev right
47:46
yeah so I I changed the wallet online We Do 50 50 because otherwise like what's
47:51
even the point of doing it and um in a week we've made one cent so
47:59
congrats yeah yeah I know we had we got attacked pretty hard on Twitter about being 100 I
48:05
was like go look at the numbers like we're talking about about I mean if it grows it grows like I'm hoping it does and I'm hoping I
48:11
don't know there has to be it's not going to grow on on Juno because no one uses the dicks and until there's a Decks
48:19
that people use and it's integrated with that man it's [ __ ] useless anyway maybe there would be a better return on
48:25
evmos potentially there's a lot more swap action on avmos and I'm not sure which decks it actually
48:30
um arbs against or if it arbs against multiple but I mean your best your best
48:36
place for for Mev me you know Community Mev rather than
48:41
our bot is um going to be osmo of course yeah so they haven't really implemented
48:47
it there and I think that the osmosis Network are implementing their own uh
48:52
Mev solution to return to the community probably in the in the form of um
48:58
you know rewards but I mean I wonder if they do do that if you know the
49:03
Network's going to take their piece off the top like they do with the minting I just uh I think I think Skip team is
49:10
working with with um with the osmosis team I believe that they're building it in and I believe it's automatically 100
49:15
going back to the mint so I think all Mev rewards there is no validator structure for it there is no we're not
49:22
using the skip dashboard it's not setting a wallet it's not setting percentages I think 100 goes back to the
49:27
mint I just Sonny just commented on this on Twitter I'll put a link in there too about that where it should be protocol based and so it all it just goes back to
49:34
the mint so I think I mean it's fine right I mean so really there's nothing
49:40
to the validator structure although there will have to be some configuration in there I would think because well maybe not maybe maybe if all validators
49:46
are forced to run it then you don't have to deal with um I'm not sure how the configuration Works in terms of
49:51
subscribing to uh you know a channel for packets and all that kind of stuff but yeah
49:59
yeah I'm just uh just bringing up a comment from Neil saying it's obviously not important the moment but if we're
50:04
discussing the Mev talk pick shouldn't we think about future with more action on the chain and what would be fair in that case
50:11
um and also just because obviously taxes come up a couple of times there and I love talking about taxes naturally I'm a
50:17
validator um I there's a really interesting thing here which was I a while ago there was a
50:24
kind of big effort to get validators to accept um atom right on Juno which I mean I'm
50:30
obviously kind of against I think it's kind of dumb to accept coins that aren't your
50:37
native token personally but you know whatever YOLO um I can see I can also see the other
50:43
side you know um have IBC to Norms of maybe a couple of closely related sister Jane's if you like and then have them
50:49
accepted do you see that um but what then happens obviously the proposer if they accept that
50:56
um as a fee then it you can end up as a validator with like one
51:01
ten thousandth of a Juno of an atom sorry that you then have to account for
51:07
in your taxes other track and you're just like oh I can't believe I've just been done dirty
51:13
like this this is insane um yeah and the the the discussion at the
51:20
moment is that uh obviously Min fee is coming in in 47
51:26
um and there is a lot of discussion for running with multiple additional tokens
51:32
from yeah like I guess related sister chains say stargazed osmosis if you're Juno or
51:39
um yeah like like those kind of things maybe the same sort of change you might want to deploy mesh security you might
51:45
also want to take their tokens but you're just going to end up with like random small potentially very small
51:51
amounts because foot for the majority of let's say the the Gen 1 Cosmos chains which are currently
51:58
the Blue Chips I hate Blue Chip as a term but whatever it is true
52:03
um they predominantly make income for their validators and stakers Via
52:09
um inflation right um not via fees so all the fees do is
52:14
complicate your tax situation and we're about to potentially uh non-linearly
52:20
increase our um bookkeeping hassle
52:26
um for no additional money like if you're making a hundred item a year or
52:31
something uh definitely a current price is um
52:36
and it would be probably a lot less in fees as a validator but you're having to
52:41
actually do the bookkeeping on those atom you're going to spend more on bookkeeping than you actually make
52:47
um so there is like there is this interesting thing of like there's there's attention I think sometimes with with some of this stuff like what's good
52:54
for users and what's good um for validators and especially when we kind of look at where we are now on
53:01
usage uh to bring it back to niels's point um a lot of these things make a lot more
53:07
sense when you have a lot of prospective usage in the future which at the moment we're not at a point where these are meaningful income streams
53:15
I don't know if that's even a hot take or not but that that's it just seems that even in the Mev case right it's not
53:20
it's not at the moment a meaningful income stream right no I mean I agree uh I was one of the
53:26
first people on secret Network to our first values in secret to add in um additional fees for for different
53:34
tokens and suddenly I had you know like six different tokens and I was like okay so I did this kind of to say that I
53:40
could do it but then it occurred to me basically exactly what you're talking about where now and and delegators get
53:45
them too right fees also go to delegators now all the delegators also then have all these additional just like
53:52
0.001 Adam I actually just checked my wallet and that's that's exactly how much Adam I have in that wall that I got
53:57
from fees so I'm like great literally adding that line is more than that was worth that's a micro Penny or even even
54:04
less and maintain the time to do that is way more than that but anyway um I want to address Neil's comments as
54:11
well about um like the more activity and how a movie works better that my understanding
54:16
is that with the way that skip works specifically is that they will never take up an entire block so there isn't
54:23
too much of a concern around Mev like kicking out full blocks it'll be like
54:29
they have a certain section that they can use um within a block and then once that's full then that's it and so there's still
54:36
all this all this extra area where you can't just buy into using
54:42
yeah that that is mine so that is my insane too and we really should understand it
54:48
perfectly given that we did have the lads on the podcast uh what feels like
54:54
about a thousand years ago but I have the really nasty suspicion was like six weeks or something it was it was like
55:00
middle of October or something yeah like maybe September I don't know I feel like I've aged years in the last four weeks
55:09
um uh that's funny because every Wednesday I get up and I'm thinking about like what what's on this what we're going to talk about and all that
55:15
kind of stuff and I think remember getting out of bed be like this is a really tough week and then I recognize that I've had that same thought like the
55:21
last nine weeks in a row where I wake up I'm like you guys can't talk about this how [ __ ] hard it is like or how busy
55:27
or miserable or this or that and everything else so it's just funny yeah we we will say I I should also just say
55:35
that in the in the chat uh we've had a little bit of a an Agatha Christie
55:40
moment um I wish I had a pun to use for some
55:46
combination of Rama and popmos uh talking about who's doing the selling
55:52
um your cell pressure and they they both realized that they were talking about the same entity
56:00
um so that was that's all fun and all fun and games uh if you're listening on a podcast player you have to come back
56:06
to the YouTube chat to see that one uh very very exciting to watch that one evolve in real time
56:12
um and the so actually on the on the unbonding
56:18
thing so there's been some talk in the chat um just to just for those for contacts for those listening later
56:23
um there's been some uh discussion on on bonding uh as well and one of the big
56:30
um I guess concern points for a lot of Cosmos networks at the moment is looking at the num the amount of tokens being on
56:36
bonded and for a lot of the oh Blue Chip I'm gonna have to say it again because I
56:42
don't have another you love that term I [ __ ] hate that's it but what about I guess what I'm
56:49
trying to say is like um you know as validators we have networks that should definitely return
56:55
at least a break even and they sometimes subsidize the networks that don't right
57:00
so then that's how you that's how you ride out the market conditions is you have some that are more likely to be
57:06
more stable or their floor is higher in terms of price and the difficulty now is that like
57:12
actually a lot of Cosmos networks are now slipping below a profitable price floor sure
57:18
um but the uh well the interesting thing on those networks is obviously looking at on bonding and the rate of on bonding
57:25
at the moment in some cases is actually pretty severe in terms of looking at what prospective price pressure might do
57:30
in 28 days let's say uh validators you're just talking just wallets in general
57:37
uh I'm not saying that validator on bonding but I am saying that um well
57:43
I I mean I don't know about you guys in terms of your validates but I've noticed we've been losing delegations yeah like
57:49
in chunks like and some of it is larger delegators literally just taking a k and
57:54
just going I I guess just taking profit while they can um or something
58:00
uh yeah I think I mean that that's like that's a confidence on whether it's coming back or whether it's not coming
58:05
back right so there's I think there's a bunch of them but I need just people just want to have the flexibility there yeah sell at some sort of point or maybe
58:12
put it to a different ecosystem or switch chains or something else right like they're going to write it to zero
58:18
yeah uh Rama says uh there are a lot of whale moves at the moment yeah defer to
58:25
Rama's Superior chain analysis on that one um Tech time is not January but but
58:31
being able to if you're gonna take losses you're gonna take it in a year right so that would be December so it's
58:37
already it's actually well depends on what chain but Juno it's too late to unbond before the end of the year so
58:42
you're it's already past that time at least here in the US so at least to be able to have the sale before the end of
58:49
the tax year yeah and the end of tax year is uh depends on your company uh reporting schedule in the UK so
58:57
we are too basic [ __ ] to have had a chance we did the uh you know the joke
59:04
about like what happens if you just click through all the screens in a RPG and you get that default character that
59:11
was basically that's basically our company it's just like the 5th of April here right a bit weird
59:16
day or whatever whatever click click click um works for everybody else so we'll do
59:22
that and then just I think the vapors no wait is it 5th of April maybe it's 13th over whatever the default is literally
59:28
this is what I mean whatever the [ __ ] default is Lads um but yeah
59:34
um interesting Times Really with a lot of that how about what are we talking about
59:39
welcome back we're talking about uh we're talking about like validators well yeah we're here we're talking about like
59:44
whales or like big movements of people unbounding across much of your chains right now but I think what we wanted to talk about we were talking about before
59:50
we hopped on was like how do validators justify kind of keeping staying on specific chains even
59:57
though they might be either running at a loss or maybe really low margin and why do they do that like or do they
1:00:03
because I think we're starting to see some validators on Bond on specific chains which it's really easy to kind of
1:00:08
Stack Up chains that are valuable versus not and kind of start from the bottom if you want to and so some of these changed
1:00:13
I think we're not going to die because I think there's there's definitely a lot of interest from others to keep you know
1:00:19
people will come and fill that void uh definitely definitely so from from what on like if you even just look at the the
1:00:26
test net scene right their uh scores are validators who who validate on test Nets
1:00:33
that would probably be more than willing to run on a on a main net just for the
1:00:39
laws you know just to like get experience in it if it's a [ __ ] chain and there's window to get in there and
1:00:45
they don't already have like a delegating community so you know that's a leg in for them and
1:00:51
that's exactly the way it should work the the other guys who are more focused on the bigger chains and run bigger hardware and and um spend more time
1:00:58
should focus on the higher value chains that they're already in and then open the door for other people who want to
1:01:05
have a go um and you know that's exactly if that's a low economic value chain
1:01:11
there's what's the damage that's going to be done um even the higher economic value chains
1:01:16
well I shouldn't say economic value I should say the higher value chains right
1:01:21
um like even you know guys outside of the top 20 on most of them I would
1:01:27
imagine would be running at a loss um
1:01:33
and we're the chains we all Runner like mostly top 20 uh in the chains we run
1:01:40
and the the monthly take is like not that great so
1:01:46
yeah or they're or they're cramming things down right like you're you might have I was running three note horcrux and
1:01:53
then then people decide well screw that I'm just gonna do a single signer and I'm gonna put six chains on one box and like you know like then you start you're
1:02:00
gonna find ways that people are gonna find ways to cut costs right like they're gonna try to take money out of the business and just shove it down
1:02:05
which is not which I again which isn't you know depending on the operator is not an awful thing but but
1:02:12
um not really great for kind of long-term success or you know stability Etc it's
1:02:19
interesting you mentioned horcrux there though because we're we're running TM KMS and it requires a relatively big box
1:02:25
in our experience just to have it like totally stable and um one of the pushes to finally
1:02:31
start switching over to DJ and horcrux um which has been on the plate for quite a long time
1:02:37
um well one reason is because um we run the junos 4 set and for some
1:02:44
unfathomable reason it keeps crash looping the boxes on and
1:02:50
and I I keep upgrading software changing things trying to work out what the root
1:02:56
cause is and then crash leaves itself again and I'm yet to get to the bottom of X as I think it might be time for
1:03:02
that server to go to live on a farm um
1:03:08
take an Upstate yeah exactly um but but I think also just like the
1:03:15
the the for if you're not on uh fully on kind of bare metal that the the d-gen
1:03:21
horcrux approach is the bear Market's friend if you look at good offerings from ovh places like that where
1:03:29
um for other networks uh doing some stuff on ovh at the moment and they've been really good
1:03:34
um not sponsored to say that just just to clarify I'm not going to like not just Shilling ovh here specifically
1:03:40
above other people but they are obviously crypto friendly which helps the the way that our uh conversation
1:03:46
takes to the real world um The Fray you've just like basically
1:03:51
centralized the cosmos after next week there's going to be 80 on ovh now
1:03:57
because of our outsized impact uh because you just told everybody too and
1:04:02
as we've learned whatever we say here becomes reality so yeah because anybody
1:04:08
listens to the podcast um which we're just oracles other than other than jayquan
1:04:15
um who is unknown and known frequenter um well I'm questioning uh you raise a
1:04:21
good point um I'm questioning whether he has really watched any of the episodes or whether he's just watched potentially the latest
1:04:28
one but um yeah I'm tipping that he hasn't
1:04:33
watched them all um yeah shall we exactly uh I think I
1:04:39
think you were right I think they were doing the rounds because um after we uh said that potentially not
1:04:45
a good fit for this show uh they said well we would like to this is ignite not
1:04:51
Jay they said well would like to like potentially have some other of our devs on the show
1:04:57
um and there's like here's our deck and I'm like hmm hmm I think they might be doing PR like
1:05:04
damage um what's it called uh damage mitigation from having like fired load of devs
1:05:11
yeah they fired a lot of devs I didn't realize they did when was that announced uh not long ago yeah they just kind of
1:05:19
they didn't announce it I don't think I think let people know let people go didn't they uh ICF or as I ignite whatever so I
1:05:29
I suspect that um The Fray and I know because we know people who were employees of ignite and
1:05:37
are now not and said that they rang up one morning and fired a lot of people yeah I mean in general it just kind of
1:05:45
seems like if you have if you're in a leadership position in the in the Eco and you have
1:05:51
a bunch of money and are thus quite resilient to market conditions then like
1:05:57
using it as an excuse to just like shed head count without a clear it it just
1:06:02
kind of seems like disingenuous and shitty I think um I mean that's kind of happening in Tech in general right now there's quite
1:06:09
quite a few companies that I'm following that just did layoffs and they're like well we're not quite making as much profit
1:06:14
and they're in the same profit yeah but they let off you know 20 of their staff just because they're like Well yeah if
1:06:20
there's layoffs happening right now we might as well start cutting headcount yeah which it's fine because we're thinking is it like it might be because
1:06:27
you're not usually they did a lot a lot a lot of hiring and most of us in
1:06:32
software kind of saw it as like there's no way that's sustainable and now it's kind of just the the grandfather clock
1:06:37
is swinging the opposite direction now um
1:06:44
does that mean they're cutting their development though like if you've got a lower head count that you're not improving your product right so what are
1:06:51
they saying in times of like lower I don't know if you want to be ahead of
1:06:57
the development mythical man month null um I've definitely worked for teams before where there were a load of people
1:07:04
and they were less productive than three people in a room like sure
1:07:10
if you have like a really effective small team um you can make a product with three to
1:07:17
five people that will look like it was made by loads more but only if those
1:07:23
people have yeah you're right exactly I mean the 37 signals stuff like that you
1:07:29
know they they had 37 employees when they were a one billion dollar company um you know there's a whole bunch of
1:07:35
examples of things that were built by a very small group of people but they were you know people who worked to a very
1:07:40
specific way of working that you know prioritize productivity
1:07:47
um which yeah so I I would address so
1:07:53
um VCS uh you know to address kind of your common on the layoffs is um they
1:07:58
often kind of like Force growth and that's kind of the purpose of VCS right it's to get that funding so that you can get more
1:08:04
Engineers you can create more products but often that dilutes kind of the message of the company
1:08:09
um a great example of that would be maybe Heroku with Salesforce
1:08:16
um Salesforce bought Heroku thinking it would you know expand them whatever and then they just kind of suffocated Heroku
1:08:22
and that was kind of a VC decision and now that VC is kind of drying up Venture
1:08:27
Capital funds is kind of drying up that's when you start laying off those extra those extra people because you didn't necessarily need them you just
1:08:33
kind of wanted them on standby for kind of a weird way to put it
1:08:39
yeah plus yeah like you know available uh brain power to like absorbize the
1:08:47
ideas and turn them into product right just in case someone has a good brain fart
1:08:53
the other thing is like some companies just it's a good opportunity just to get rid of folks and not take bad press for
1:08:59
it so like people you don't like well I mean you [ __ ] you frankly it's a good
1:09:04
time to upgrade so a lot of companies will say all right we're gonna cut 10 because there's always 10 everybody
1:09:09
knows that everybody every company ever been in there's always 10 right so they're gonna cut that 10 and then then they'll take that from a from a uh
1:09:19
um from a Maybe from a bad press that can kind of believe it in the market and they can rehire that 10 or 15 you know
1:09:24
from an open market that might have much more available resources that are you
1:09:30
know um that are really far you know far more exciting or far more um
1:09:36
I just heard I think somebody changed their name so I lost my thought on what the hell is actually going on
1:09:43
well it's also a good time for restructuring in general at the beginning I worked at acorns and they
1:09:50
had four satellite offices I want to say the other Main Headquarters down in
1:09:55
um in Southern California and they had a Portland office they had a New York office Detroit one other and one day
1:10:02
during the All Hands the CEO comes on and he goes okay uh offices this this
1:10:07
and this don't come in on Monday and then he signed off and that was it so we're also like what
1:10:13
but because it was amidst so many other layoffs no I don't remember seeing a single article about you know 100 employees for
1:10:20
acorns being laid off even though it was something like 20 of the staff so usurper
1:10:27
um I feel like what I'm taking from your uh commentary is that
1:10:34
basically there's now a glut of people that other people don't like in the in
1:10:40
the labor market right yes non-personable people uh no I mean
1:10:46
that might just be describing um devs in general no no I don't mean that is so some companies had to leave
1:10:51
good people because they couldn't afford them and other companies will lay off people because they can
1:10:57
um and they you know usually a firm can't decide to take I'm going to cut 10 of developers just off
1:11:03
the if a large firm just say I'm going to cut 10 of a specific area and not end up I guess what I'm saying what I mean
1:11:08
is though is that like when you cut 10 of your Workforce it's not a non-discriminatory cut you don't just
1:11:14
take out the hundred and then go in 10 and go slice you're all gone without
1:11:19
discrimination it's like we either don't like you or think you're [ __ ] and so the
1:11:24
the people who are landing in there and sometimes they literally just
1:11:31
it's not discriminatory it's just like this team has effectively shut down you're all done
1:11:37
uh we'll move some of you you know like and say we need two Ops Engineers over in this part of the
1:11:43
business we'll keep the two Ops guys everybody else I mean that's where I was with acorns yeah they just let off the entire
1:11:48
offices completely regardless of what they're working on yeah it's very common like less like
1:11:54
obviously not not quite the same as permanent stuff but like it's also very common if you're uh doing Contracting
1:12:01
type stuff where you're doing like uh not sure stuff uh what's it called um
1:12:06
supplement uh well at least like subcontracting or yeah whatever is cool where you know
1:12:12
they how they need like five more devs so they just bring in five different contractors contractors yeah exactly very common if you have like a team
1:12:19
that's primarily contractors which is pretty common actually in the UK
1:12:24
because there's so few senior developers like there's there's so many so many open jobs even at the worst of market
1:12:31
conditions that you sometimes if you do the corporate Contracting Lark you end up on a team where the project product
1:12:40
manager and like the user researcher who are the designer let's say are all permanent staff and then all the
1:12:46
developers and the the platform people are all contractors because
1:12:52
they're all kind of senior and they'll just say okay we will contract but then when when times change they literally go
1:12:59
right you three are reassigned you're all fired like you here's your here's your one day notice right
1:13:05
um but then yeah that's that's the game isn't it that's why you get paid more as a contractor but it it is that that
1:13:10
straightforward they just go this team is no longer needed thank you yeah I wish I had an office
1:13:16
full of people that I could fire [ __ ] don't work for null is that you know if
1:13:24
I had another office full of people that I didn't have to fire you know I'd love to be able to afford an office full of people I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure I
1:13:30
didn't I didn't like hallucinate that a few days ago null said to me like I have a reputation for being a right cut to
1:13:37
work is that true and he's literally Frozen that's frozen if you phrase they could
1:13:44
no right response so the problem is I just moved my um Elon dish yesterday and
1:13:50
I put it in the top of a um a poll like in the top of a tube which is where you
1:13:55
sit it but because I don't have like the OEM top of pole tube sitter I just like
1:14:02
I sit it in there and just tape it around it so it doesn't move and the [ __ ] birds are like going and landing
1:14:09
on it and you know doing a [ __ ] on it and then flapping around a bit and then it like moves a little bit and then I
1:14:15
lose my satellite uh but most [ __ ] King nodes response
1:14:22
I've ever heard in my life that's [ __ ] up your [ __ ] you need uh you need a BB gun
1:14:28
we were just talking about murdering Birds earlier that's right BB's BBS
1:14:33
don't kill them they just convince them that the nesting site is um is unsafe and they move on
1:14:39
pigeons they'll be smart enough to not not land there again I'm not sure
1:14:48
I've done it so I'm no longer in the Caravan I'm in
1:14:53
like a like a cabin I guess you would say it's like
1:14:59
a house that's not as good as like a house should be so I guess a cabin and
1:15:04
then um so I I surveyed the outside of the house and there was nowhere to mount
1:15:10
the Elon dish and so I've parked the Caravan very close to the cabin so that
1:15:16
I could like run the cable out to the pole that I've got attached to the Caravan so I'm reliant on my Caravan still
1:15:27
it's still just like such a ridiculous situation I have better accommodation but I'm still completely and utterly
1:15:34
reliant on my inferior accommodation it looks nicer Australia yeah but at least
1:15:39
it's got a nice area I can set up here for the for the stream when you get the nice bird noise in the background I can
1:15:44
I could close the doors which would probably be better for the audio but there's a nice breeze so the other the
1:15:51
other week I think we covered that null was recommending a Australian uh an
1:15:57
Aussie slasher flick or exploitation film called fair game I was at the pub
1:16:04
the other day and a Polish lad that I know recommended me and us oh I think it
1:16:11
might be an American film and I though it's out in Australia it wouldn't surprise me hugely if it was actually just [ __ ] randomly filmed in America
1:16:17
but it was called Road game
1:16:24
yeah and it's uh it's also about serial killers in Australia what is with it everything is about serial killers in
1:16:30
rural Australia uh so I feel like you know
1:16:36
um a lot of it was it a 70s movie
1:16:42
um yellow 70s or 80s no no you see this is what made me think it was actually
1:16:47
filmed in the US I watched the trailer wasn't wasn't yellow tinted and I was
1:16:52
like that's Arizona my man that's Arizona that's that's Hollywood maybe that's
1:16:58
like when they're no cactuses though so actually maybe not American desert
1:17:03
so there are plenty of American deserts don't have cactuses but correct yeah so wasn't the latest Mad Max filmed in like
1:17:11
UAE or something like that wherever they got a tax break I imagine I thought it was in Australia was it not
1:17:19
um I don't well maybe some of it I thought it was over UAE
1:17:24
um in the dunes and stuff like that I could be wrong I think like I think over there is like
1:17:31
that more of apocalyptic look that's Fury Road right is that what are you talking about yeah but Australia like it's not
1:17:39
it's not meant to like look like Australia right it's meant to look like America in uh in Mad Max it's not like
1:17:46
the apocalyptic aftermath of Australia it's just like an apocalyptic aftermath
1:17:51
it took the content out of it I was under the impression it was filmed uh near Cuba Petey is that right
1:17:59
maybe maybe some of the earlier movies you surprise I think the I think the yellow Hue of all the movies here comes
1:18:06
from like the intense sun rays just like you can see them here see there's [ __ ] god raising yeah coming in
1:18:13
through the window I'm getting us you want to see the back of my head man it's blistering
1:18:19
maybe maybe all of that yellow Hue actually comes from like you know the the sun just belting down on the boxes
1:18:24
and melting the friggin uh you know film yeah I think so I do see I see them
1:18:30
maybe in that list I see a lot of Australian netlists too and so in in Cape Town so yeah all over
1:18:36
the place but mostly Australia it looks like so um the J was that a recommendation uh
1:18:42
for the for the the Australian movie that you were talking about did you recommend it when I watched the trailer and I was
1:18:49
like this could be a laugh it's quite short but um whether or not I will have time to I
1:18:54
mean what who the [ __ ] am I kidding I'm not gonna have time to watch it I still have a half assembled house I don't even have a TV
1:19:00
um I can't I can't even [ __ ] watch Netflix at the moment there's no way I guess I could just watch it on my laptop
1:19:06
which I got propped up on a pile of books right now um you know things there's tough times here I could I could just say it keeps
1:19:14
getting the whiff of bleach I'm like where the [ __ ] is that bleach coming from and I realize it's because although I did wash my hands after I got bleach
1:19:19
on them it's just my hands smell kind of bleachy uh life is bleachy is that corn
1:19:25
whatever so sporty says gosh I thought null had a fake background on it does look like it
1:19:32
actually um partial match says didn't bark kill a bird with Nelson's BB gun well
1:19:38
remembered yeah they killed a chick I think um because BB guns only go like I think
1:19:45
300 feet per second that although in the US they're not legally capped because we yeah we have some crazy ass ones here
1:19:51
you probably you probably could kill a bird in the U.S in in I think maybe not in Europe but certainly in the UK BB
1:19:58
guns have a maximum velocity of 300 feet per second oh yeah I can tell you I've killed some birds of BB guns yeah me too
1:20:04
be utility do you mean BB gun or air rifle though yes like what single pump in the house yeah yeah it's like it's
1:20:12
like a it's like a tiny little pellet and it's air powered it's like a brake action
1:20:18
it could be like an actual pellet like a little point on it right it has yeah yeah so in the in the UK you call that
1:20:24
an air rifle not a BB gun so what's a BBT then is that the airsoft the really soft ones yeah BB's just a
1:20:31
little a little the little plastic pellets that's Airsoft here if it's metal it's B
1:20:37
here if it's plastic it's Airsoft okay the baby is in metal ball bearing right
1:20:42
yeah yeah yeah so we call the round ones BBS and then uh air rifles uh while the
1:20:48
air rifles because it's like yeah competitive target shooting isn't it yeah so there's no is there a limit on
1:20:54
air rifles um no no you can just buy them um okay yeah periodically there's like
1:21:02
should we clamp down on them because some [ __ ] yeah something some some stupid [ __ ] kid shoots some old lady
1:21:11
and uh and then gets arrested and then put in a Boston or whatever and then there's like a little bit of moral
1:21:17
outrage for a bit and then people go well yeah but you it's still you know you can still really kill a bird with it
1:21:24
there's there are two um like you know you can get like really high powered like kind of like I think
1:21:30
that because wherever they are the one one seven seven point one seven seven or 0.22 the little metal palette ones
1:21:37
um the really powerful ones I think you do need to be over 21 and I think you
1:21:45
need to get you need to prove you need to have a reason I think you need to say like oh I live in the countryside and I
1:21:52
want to shoot pests and I and they're not pests that I'm not legally allowed to shoot and then they'll go oh yeah just go buy one here's your little
1:21:59
um but I think you have to tell the I think you basically just have to tell the police that you have it just so that they're aware that you have it same as
1:22:05
shotguns like um you can if you're like a farmer you can buy a shotgun but you have to tell
1:22:10
the police that you have it and register it um and they you have to ask them first and they're like if you have like a
1:22:16
record of being a mental lad who shouldn't have a shotgun then they'll be trying they'll be like you can't have
1:22:22
that shotgun sorry um it's a very big problem actually that a lot of people um go senile in old age and have locked
1:22:31
up guns especially in rural places and then because the the licensing we have
1:22:37
because we have so few guns is like quite lacks it is literally telling your local police get the license difficult
1:22:43
put it in the kitchen dresser do you know what I mean yeah and then you've got like some 70 year old guy with three
1:22:48
12 gauges in his house who's now got Alzheimer's and then like you know I've got a friend
1:22:55
who's basically a rural doctor and he's like they have a thing where they're a state there's one person who does have
1:23:00
like dementia and they as as doctors they go they go oh yeah you have to make sure you like
1:23:06
toot the horn at the end of the drive and like really announce you're coming because because we know that guy is
1:23:11
beginning to get shaky and we're not certain his son won't take away the shotguns
1:23:17
uh they're locked up but like better be safe than sorry and you're like okay
1:23:24
um yeah because they'll literally come out with it right yeah yeah exactly potentially but I mean
1:23:29
they're locked away so it's a gun cabinet right you're on a 70 year old is not going to be able to open a gun cabinet with their bare hands and not
1:23:35
the The Incredible Hulk but uh but yes better be safe than sorry uh as as we
1:23:42
as we say in this country I guess um so uh
1:23:47
I wanted to also mention that there was there was a a we would cover the the the leaving a chain thing earlier but
1:23:54
um shortly was saying the other day that uh hetzner coming for more validators
1:24:00
right is it near near that have got gotten yeah yeah a handful of near validators
1:24:07
have received a message basically well what's interesting about it is yes they've received a message but
1:24:12
they're much more soft core about it with near with near they received a borderline polite email saying hey your
1:24:19
account is kind of sort of being investigated you know it's in terms of service that we don't do crypto we might
1:24:26
you know look into your stuff a little bit it wasn't like Solana where they just kind of kicked off what 10 or 20 of
1:24:31
the network and called it good and as far as I know that was a week probably a week ago and no one's actually been
1:24:38
kicked off yet they've just received the email saying there's preliminary investigation so I think that's really interesting and
1:24:43
I think it's I'm hoping it's a good sign of things to come um we run horcrux so and we still use
1:24:51
hetzner um but if if we did if as you get this off horcrux would just switch to one of
1:24:56
our other platforms so I wouldn't really care but not having to worry about it would be would be really great
1:25:04
but you also have the benefit if you're running horcrux you can run horcrux on a cloud or or a bear Master provider or
1:25:11
whatever and you know like no no provider is gonna be
1:25:17
like oh we won't absolutely won't let you run a signer how dare you how dare you like
1:25:22
cryptographic ciders on our materials like yeah I can run Apache Kafka I'm
1:25:28
allowed to run horcrux there's a fair bit of i o on uh on a signer there is there is for sure especially on
1:25:34
they charge you for that they love it they're like so if you if you run them uh single side
1:25:41
of those a lot less so also like you know
1:25:46
um ovh has a we don't give a [ __ ] about crypto policy so you're pretty safe over
1:25:53
there just to push more people over to ovh now I should get a bloody um commission but what is that like
1:25:59
absolutely we should get affiliate links we've established we're not good at
1:26:04
marketing okay we're definitely not good at making money [Music]
1:26:11
I mean if we were good at making yeah I mean there's a whole bunch of um
1:26:17
yeah there's a whole bunch of things going on we do it for the memes I I mean for back
1:26:23
to hetzner that's part of the reason why I think a lot of us are starting to to drop networks is ovh for the same
1:26:30
system is a hazardous system you're talking double the price and ovh is pretty cheap relatively speaking hessner
1:26:36
was just disgustingly cheap um and so suddenly These Chains where you could you know
1:26:41
not worry about it too much because Tesla was so cheap is maybe ten dollars a month around the well I guess over multiple servers let's say ten dollars a
1:26:47
month to run a chain that's not a big deal that's that's a marketing cost suddenly with multiple servers and
1:26:52
multiple nodes and running relayers the cheapest chain suddenly you know 100 plus dollars a month
1:26:59
and that's when the calculus really starts to change so really you can think headstone for a lot of these chains people leaving these chains
1:27:06
fun fact uh King nodes has never run a node on hetzner ever
1:27:12
it's because they wouldn't have you yeah yeah you can't brag about that what kind of marketing is that I didn't know I
1:27:19
have an application we've already established that like because your company named Big Balls blockchain it
1:27:24
was they were like obviously obviously you're running crypto we're obviously gonna ban you I like to announce that I
1:27:31
have never played golf at the Masters it's basically the same thing I wonder I
1:27:37
might actually change change the company name to Big Balls blockchain um you know usurper uh you don't have to
1:27:44
be a good golfer to play golf at the um at the Masters you could blog your way in like that that guy from like America
1:27:51
can you yeah he's like he's played at the Masters heaps like many many years uh
1:27:58
and he just blagged his way and I'm pretty sure he was British how do we end up talking about golf I don't know
1:28:04
that's a super Segway I did that's a bad one what was it to do with no because he
1:28:09
said I don't know his big blockchain balls
1:28:14
elephants blockchain BT loyalty dude okay
1:28:21
yeah uh well that's that's successfully yeah but so are they are the hats are
1:28:27
the hats coming for coming for Cosmos first they came for the Solana validators and I didn't give a [ __ ]
1:28:33
because I don't validate Solana then they came for the near validators slightly more politely and I was like ah
1:28:38
YOLO probably be fine because they're getting more polite as they go on and and then they came from me and there
1:28:45
was nobody else to give a [ __ ] because all the other ecosystems are larger by market cap than us yeah would I be
1:28:50
talking out of turn if I said they probably don't give a [ __ ] about us I wouldn't think so I mean the
1:28:58
um unless you're like what what they're probably like what the [ __ ] is Cosmos right like yeah you know I haven't heard
1:29:04
of this so should I do some research I mean I I don't know though because near I think is quite a bit smaller than the
1:29:11
cosmos so I think it's pretty surprising that they were hit before before the cosmos was honestly is it is it a ram
1:29:18
CPU usage thing though like is it is it where in the [ __ ] out of nvme drives like the cosmos does uh that's a good question I can't answer
1:29:25
that do you think I should buy someone to like shut down these
1:29:31
um cryptographic networks because it makes no sense from a business perspective the business perspective
1:29:37
it's better just to ignore it
1:29:42
[Music]
1:30:05
thank you