let's do it let's do it oh well okay we're live now but uh you know difficult
0:06
fashion because the phrase usually doing this we don't have the intro cue
0:16
[Music]
0:25
hello everybody and welcome to game of nodes the independent validator podcast
0:31
or the podcaster by independent validators or something around there we whatever you know that's that's the
0:38
phrase thing and he's typically High fashionly late welcome The Fray
0:44
we've just been waiting for you for [ __ ] 10 minutes just in time hosting
0:49
so I heard there was this game of nodes podcasting happening so yeah did you get
0:56
the Tweet is that what it was yeah yeah I was like I was like I should go check that out and then I remember that I was
1:02
on it oh [ __ ] so um uh you can see stress beard in full effect now we're in
1:07
our final form yeah yeah it's uh it's not even I'm really this is a big beard
1:13
for me um I've got a um uh our sponsor for this evening is
1:20
Coca-Cola is it sponsoring the podcast um we're they're launching an app chain q1
1:28
2023 Coke coin no relation to cocaine of
1:33
course that's a historical artifact it is um yeah I'm bullish on it it's um
1:40
it's got sugar carbonated water color caramel e150d
1:47
acid natural flavorings and caffeine um
1:53
nfts on their new blockchain so 101 nfts for each ingredients
2:01
uh yeah there's gonna be uh they're gonna actually release the secret Coke recipe as an nft that's that's what
2:07
they're going to do on their new chain in the cosmos this is a whole new way of getting demonetized now we're just gonna get just gonna get suit our ass off just
2:14
yeah it would uh it's one of those that you know when you're young and you're like I can't believe people sell out by taking money
2:21
from from Sunset like all of the bad people you can take money from in my old age I'm like
2:26
here's my address I was still not I would still not take money from Coca-Cola but I do I have also drunk
2:32
this stuff for so long I'm like I don't know you like maybe your your own knowledge of your own hypocrisy
2:40
increases over time right yeah you know I I I'd be okay with Coca-Cola uh I
2:45
won't draw a line there too hard but Nestle that's where I would draw the line like I'm not I'm not putting up with any of that I'm not doing any any
2:52
sort of like coconut products uh yeah okay well what what Nestle like
2:58
union busting and like you know disappearing people in in certain regions or something crazy like that
3:04
like it was disappearing people no wait no I'm sorry no I'm thinking of I'm thinking of glencore on I no um ignore
3:10
me thinking of the government man um well you dig down in in in in in a
3:16
lot of Supply chains and eventually you find uh indigenous populations via nearby a valuable natural resource
3:23
getting um disappeared by a conglomerate anyway um which is where the Banana Republic
3:29
term comes from kind of sort of a little bit well a little bit yeah um so it it takes only a couple of
3:37
minutes from me showing up to us uh going into the Naomi fine book group
3:43
um I I'm like uh I who is it that recommended
3:48
um debt by Graber it was somebody on this podcast I'm about 20 pages from the end uh it's
3:55
been a thrilling read it's a it's a long book which one is
4:01
that it's a spicy boy um five thousand uh first five thousand uh yeah
4:07
what did you think um I think it is uh
4:15
a very like a very very provocative read in all the good ways
4:21
um I've I've been as I got towards the end I've started uh looking up critiques of
4:27
it because I'm kind of interested to see like how people sort of take it apart and what they they don't like about it
4:33
um there's it's yeah it's interesting it's really really interesting I think there's there's a lot of a lot of food
4:40
for thought in there that
4:49
made me think more than than any kind of pseudo pop
4:54
academic book that I've I've read in the last maybe three three four actually
4:59
it's not fair because I read um I read McKenzie walk only last year and
5:04
that was very very provocative as well but it's it's on the Mackenzie walked here I think of like just [ __ ] great
5:11
really really great really provocative really really interesting so why don't I reread it over the break
5:18
and then we can talk about it in depth it's sitting on my nightstand too over a whiskey
5:24
yeah yeah and we can finally devolve into the uh devolve or evolve into the
5:30
uh the game of nines book group that we've threatened to we still haven't done the game of nodes um movie Nights I
5:36
know we run out of Australian classics we I what was that one that you uh you
5:42
set around uh in the group chat now is it fair game yeah fair game fair game
5:49
yeah we watched the trailer I know the track I mean it it looked like a good couple of pints of Guinness I think I
5:56
watched it did you you did it was good yeah well I can't remember I think I watched it
6:03
at one point all of those Australian movies just became the same yellow Hue blur
6:12
yeah I'm like oh it's another yellow blur for an hour it's not just called like going to work
6:19
as well like just like without the yellow it's been raining non-stop for two years
6:25
beautiful yellow over there some yellow yeah it's [ __ ] yellow in your room man it's poison
6:31
yeah sliding is yellow as [ __ ] yeah well I I don't like
6:37
um white lights because it means if you work late uh it's really hard to then
6:43
get to sleep afterwards so because I work up here all of the lights are kind of a sort of orangey
6:49
Hue but it means that when there's this time of of year obviously where it's
6:55
it's been dark for like six hours so it just means that it's insanely
7:01
insanely yellow in here um I'm yellow everything's yellow I don't know what to tell you it's not
7:07
normally that yellow though so what changed I think normally I don't have the main light on I just have
7:13
um my Architects lamp on next to my head but I've got the main lights in here
7:20
um everything in my house is [ __ ] at the moment um so I have CL this this is just the
7:28
the concession to if you are the last person staying with us on New Year's you get that sofa bed where there's
7:35
there's no blinds in this room it's just it's just my desk and that's and that sorry for bed right so whoever gets here
7:42
to last and has last shotgun on a place to sleep ends up sleeping in there and they get woken up like at the crack of dawn
7:50
um but that's all that's the only apart from the chair I'm in it's basically the only place in the house you can currently sit down and there isn't like
7:56
a circular saw on it or a [ __ ] pile of off Cuts or some [ __ ] to do with
8:03
building work and so um I I cleared it so that there was a place
8:09
that we could actually eat food uh I don't know why it's taking me like two weeks to think of that solution but
8:15
I was suddenly like I was just moving stuff around for the podcast and I was like [ __ ] I should have done this literally [ __ ] there's a couch
8:21
underneath all this [ __ ] no exactly it was piled up with like all kinds of [ __ ] and I was like you know I can just yeah
8:28
man there's a house in this house yeah I could just pile all that [ __ ] up and buy my feet
8:33
and then I could actually have a place to to sit so yeah well thank you thank you sorry to
8:41
Studio why am I so yellow that would that would be very very racist if I was
8:49
um I'm because I'm tired because I nearly ideally made made a joke about about I
8:58
almost made it racial and alert well yeah nearly yeah so uh I read a book
9:05
called a very good book called The Good immigrant it's about um about kind of the experience of
9:11
second generation uh lived racism in the United Kingdom primarily
9:16
um and I I refer to myself as brown and I I gather it is something that a lot of brown folk do which people who haven't
9:24
heard that before fine can't find jarring um but what I learned from that book is
9:29
that there are people of East Asian um descent I can't say it I guess
9:36
because they're not from that um diaspora group but but if I say I'm a brown person I gather there is an
9:42
equivalent um kind of tongue-in-cheek thing that that second generation people say as well so
9:50
anyway I mean unless you've got the accent like you can't really claim it so what accent British accent what I like
9:58
you know I have got a British accent what are you talking about now nothing uh so anyway I'm ready anyway bees Irish
10:06
says uh is you serve a part of rhino steak uh yeah yeah that's the I'm not
10:11
just showing that [ __ ] these Irish also says uh what is the
10:18
show about today drama isn't it yeah it's about always
10:23
about drama and I've just been accused of having accused of having diagnosed with having jaundice so thank you I was
10:31
gonna say I was going to say John is too but I was like ah are your eyes yeah how do you get jaunders is jaundice
10:37
malnutrition no it's not liver failure liver failure all right I'm pretty
10:44
healthy it can't clean the other when your liver fails to clean all the uh brick dust out of your blood I do you
10:51
know what I this is a gross but I sneezed earlier and there was just uh was there stuff yeah there was just um
10:58
uh sawdust like really log because you know when you cut like hardwood like Oak
11:04
yeah you get like these really long filings they're really long but they're like quite spirally so
11:09
they're just they were just like all of those oh my God I'm dying and then I was
11:15
like oh no this is not like tissue this is wood it's fine it's coming out it's fine
11:20
yeah I had most of it's out whatever yeah it's not like a coal miner or something like you're not like yeah
11:27
it's not like a minor in Australia no my least favorite is scraping the popcorn
11:33
off of ceilings getting rid of that is just the absolute worst it gets in your nose it gets everywhere in the house it just like spray that [ __ ] down right you
11:40
spray it down and get it all wet and then yeah I've never done that but you always miss something
11:47
uh I guess in like the 60s I don't know if it was everywhere else that's true
11:53
popcorn ceiling is still used but it's very popular in like 70s where they would just like spray I don't know if
11:59
it's a foam it's like caulking or what but it looks like popcorn up on the
12:04
ceiling it's called popcorn ceiling and to remove it you basically spray the ceiling with water you get it wet and
12:09
then you just gravel it down basically it's awful so instead of like making a
12:15
instead of making a ceiling that's like you could look sideways and see that it's not a 100 level or it has like
12:20
little dips or whatever whatever they put like a small texture on it not like it's not like thick like it's real thin like you just put a small texture on it
12:26
so when you put a small texture on anything even the walls or the ceilings like everything looks good because you can't really see you know you can't see
12:32
like the issue so and then now we should be in style and then everybody like it was everywhere like especially
12:38
apartments and like small homes and things like that and then and then now everybody wants to get rid of that [ __ ] so they start scraping It Off
12:44
here we had a a a a much more painful thing which I'm sure you also have and
12:51
I've realized I've just made this about Home Improvement I was really sorry but the they they got a wallpaper with
13:00
wood chips in it and you had to basically apply it to the wall or ceiling because why not you can
13:06
[ __ ] your ceiling up too while you're at it um with like extra strong
13:12
wallpaper paste and yeah like 60 70s holy [ __ ] like if you if your place
13:19
but had Warm Bodies in it in that period of time there is a good chance that you have a
13:26
room with that [ __ ] and it is [ __ ] impossible to get off and you have to literally you have to steam the wall
13:32
with a steamer like until it's essentially like completely sodden and then usually just like knife off the top
13:40
and then essentially like yeah just like with a with a really I mean I've you're
13:45
supposed to be able to run it down with like um a cutting a palette knife but in the past it's been so far on I've had to
13:52
literally do it with like an actual chisel that's how insanely stuck on this [ __ ] crap is
13:59
um genuinely mad and the worst bit is sometimes people have come along later and they've been like I hate that
14:05
wallpaper and they just lay fresh wallpaper on top right I've heard of
14:10
somebody that they were they moved into a place and they were basically like trying to put up some pictures and then the [ __ ] started falling off the wall
14:16
they found out that somebody had moved in afterwards and just write put plaster straight
14:21
up Plastering over it and then obviously the plaster's just attached to the [ __ ]
14:26
oh and it just all fell off eventually and they just when these new people moved in they started putting in some shelves or something in the whole line
14:33
that's the same thing the [ __ ] wallpaper so you know I was like saved yourself a
14:38
job because getting that [ __ ] off is impossible but it came largely off by accident and somebody somebody
14:44
mentioned like asbestos in the chest the same thing in the US like there's asbestos tiles and stuff like we have a we have some tile that's in a closet
14:51
here that like looks suspicious our home was built in the 50s and I'm like and my
14:56
wife's like we should get that tested I'm like we will never [ __ ] know I just put right on top of that thing as
15:02
long as you don't mess with it it's fine right just but but I have a special in
15:07
my basement and that's exactly what I did yeah so there's a special style and I was like nah that can stay right there
15:12
and [ __ ] right on top of it on top of it yep after I die whoever's next in this house
15:18
I'll be like this [ __ ] just put up yeah whatever so those listening who are
15:24
like who are very careful people to delegate to
15:29
and I was literally recommending you all literally earlier today to to some people I was like I was like I don't
15:36
know multifacetime we cut we cut Corners you know we're just like sometimes we're
15:43
just like you know we're routing something out I'm like I could do the whole and I'm
15:49
just gonna plunger out this one corner and then jigsaw that [ __ ] out that's right I I'm behind schedule bam we're
15:55
done however those guys those guys would always do it right they wouldn't just tile over asbestos
16:01
they wouldn't do that that's what I said I said I promise people literally earlier today I promised I said if schultzy had asbestos in his basement he
16:09
would let me get it out with the code that I hate that they were like why are you so obsessed with us no renovation
16:15
I'm like I'm in a dark place but I'm also trying to recommend you delegate with these guys and they were like okay
16:21
well if I ever find out would retail over asbestos
16:26
I'm looking for you and I was like I was like I I you can yeah you can come looking for me [ __ ] because I'm
16:32
so confident let's take my reputation they would never tell them
16:38
you hate people who tile over asbestos they're the worst person
16:45
to be fair alleged asbestos we never got to test it it just it just looks like tile that's
16:51
all it is I just didn't want to deal with it so maybe it is maybe it isn't it's like Schrodinger's cat of asbestos
16:57
I don't know that's what I said you said sure anyway you know I'm renovating a
17:04
house and uh the [ __ ] ceiling in the bathroom man and like all these other
17:09
walls is just covered over asbestos I'm so [ __ ] sick of pulling something apart and finding asbestos is it like
17:15
like little ceiling tiles or something no I know it's it's like they've put like gyprock like you know the board
17:23
um and no I know the plasterboard's fine it's just that they've left the asbestos there and just put [ __ ] on top of it and
17:29
glued it to it so you should you should just roll that [ __ ] right through I should find who [ __ ] did it
17:35
and go to town on them Schultz I guess well well so I think so I think that well in the U.S that is uh if you're a
17:41
homeowner you don't have to do anything with asbestos you just slap a mask on and get rid of it yeah for everyone else that it's an issue really if you're a
17:48
con if you're like a licensed contractor to deal with it the right way yeah so we you and I we have to do whatever the hell we want in Australia you're allowed
17:54
to like remove 10 square meters or something like that 10 anyway so
18:02
um and and take it to the tip so I take it 10 square meters at a time exactly yep yeah
18:10
yeah but I mean like they're not going to open up the bag repeat all the [ __ ] together and start measuring like right
18:17
and just get rid of it yeah but if you folks if you take asbestos out just
18:22
please take it as a tip don't like dump it on the side of the road what's attempt a dump the landfill all right gotcha
18:30
yeah that'd be one of those [ __ ] who just like backs up their trailer at the edge of the road and just tips the [ __ ]
18:35
out they're like up Port down the drain not at myself not at my house anymore
18:40
yeah just poor and toxic waste down the drain yeah yeah yeah this is a good podcast so far I like it
18:47
yeah what else we got yeah I mean the Home Improvement section of the show I
18:52
mean talk about jaundice Home Improvement what else we got asbestos yeah so I don't have drawn this so that
18:58
we can we can just like straight [ __ ] cross that off super healthy look out of
19:04
everything I can see in your webcam area your eyes are not yellow everything
19:09
that's true yeah that's true that's a good sign yeah I mean tones going yellow your floor is yellow and [ __ ] there's
19:15
like a yellow Hue like an Australian movie everywhere else and uh yeah but your eyes are white as [ __ ]
19:24
and you're right well yeah you know uh you've got some really nice
19:31
teeth man [Laughter] that is why British people have bad
19:36
teeth um yeah so Australians think that was that
19:42
was a Deftones reference to anybody that's uh that picked up on that one
19:47
um I've been listening to a lot of um Australian mid-2000s progressive rock
19:52
while I've been um hitting things and and screwing things into things and whatnot this week
19:58
it's been um like AC DC what is that is that is that Progressive Midnight Oil
20:07
you know I did this one that old I listened to uh tubular bells one two and
20:13
three wow jeez um and I think the the conclusion is for
20:19
listening I know I don't want to I'll just tldr it listens to the podcast one want the review straight they don't
20:24
worry about the spoilers so cheaper bus 2 is the best one that's what I've concluded Lads um we can settle that
20:31
once and for all Mike Oldfield legendary genius but he got it right second time
20:38
well I feel better with that yeah you go to hear first people yep troubled trouble genius but but cheap
20:45
labels to hit the nail on the head my only my only
20:51
drawback I would say on Tubular Bells 2 is that obviously cheaper Bell's one ends with the sailor's hornpipe and
20:57
that's really funny because it's like the sailor's [ __ ] horn pipe and Tubular Bells 2 kind of ends with like a
21:03
sort of like americany style Americana kind of banjoy type thing and I think it
21:08
would have been better if it was just the sailor's horn pipe that that's my only
21:14
uh okay quick question what does that have to do with mid-2000s uh oh it
21:20
sounds too that wasn't mid-2000s yeah apart from that is like you know butterfly that kind of all richly
21:26
whatever you know a lot a lot of first Carnival album always forget how good it is are they in
21:34
Richland Australia oh richly yeah they're Australian aren't they are they I didn't know that I think
21:40
so yeah pretty okay so adding Tubular Bells to the uh don't don't don't
21:47
listen to it actually sounds quite nice you're just gonna be disappointed this is not another heat situation on your uh
21:53
on your um on your new setup now you will so so good fact about my
21:58
progressively insane setup nice yeah so tubular bells one right it was it was a real Hallmark in terms of
22:05
um like the the basically like number one it launched Virgin Records um and it was basically the reason we
22:12
have Richard Branson which is kind of weird um and also the sex pills I guess because they funded that too around the
22:18
same time um but he did the demo for it where he basically recorded Mike holdfield recorded it all himself just like with a
22:24
single tape machine and he had to I can't remember exactly how this works because I'm too young to have ever had to do this but he was essentially
22:31
playing the tape back disassembling it and then being able to overdub the same tape to make a demo tape
22:41
and basically Richard Branson heard that was like holy [ __ ] this guy's dedicated enough to do that and was able to play
22:46
every instrument yeah let's just give him some give him some bit of studio time and then a small
22:52
budget and see what he comes up with he came up with Julie Bells and it made a lot of money for a lot of
22:57
people and obviously it was a soundtrack to the ex um the exist so
23:03
I don't see Tubular Bells too uh I'm not was it was actually I'm not
23:10
sure if it was actually called tubular but it's the one it's the one two with the blue color there's a tubular bells
23:17
three no yeah that must be the actual name of it then it's Tubular Bells too
23:22
it's two like I I usually as it's written like that not yeah
23:28
it is the AI yeah we got we got in the chat we got Highlanders saying it's a top album like
23:34
the people are with me um so I I once like I once downloaded uh
23:41
like uh you know uh 50 best Philharmonic Orchestra
23:48
um you know uh what do they call them like albums CDs
23:55
no no it's like their songs but they're like um you know those classic songs like what do they call them it could be
24:01
a symphony or a concerto or it could be yeah like Symphony one's like you know um you know like like what uh you know
24:09
the the birds one you know the the [ __ ] Flight of the Bumblebee yeah Flight of The Valkyrie yeah like those
24:17
kinds of songs yeah oh that's a that's a that's an opera isn't it yeah Opera yeah
24:22
no no it's not bro no yes it is one of the Valkyries like just a song yes it's
24:28
from The Ring cycle it's it's Wagner [ __ ] off
24:36
anyway it's a I was in the car for like 10 hours listening to this [ __ ] it was
24:41
great it was like you get a classical yeah that was a few years ago I'll have
24:47
to rage out again to it Highlanders also wrapping Aussie [ __ ] in the chat with uh King gizzard and the lizard wizard yeah
24:56
interesting for their use of microtonal Music in a pop format Have you listened to every song in
25:03
existence and the lizard wizard I haven't listened to every song in existence but I
25:10
do you work as a music journalist so I I know but it doesn't seem to be like doesn't matter how obscure the band is
25:17
you're like oh yeah they've got like a really weird tone on there I think I talked to him in 97. yeah I talked to
25:24
him 97. I wish there's a there's a there's a really famous British music journalist
25:31
um from north of England called John Robb who I really really like because he
25:37
just seems to crop up everywhere like you'll be watching some documentary about some band and then like
25:43
he just like they cut to so the other thing is if you live so I lived in Manchester for a long time uh in the
25:48
center of the city and uh John Robb also despite being like what 20 25 years older than me or whatever lived in the
25:55
center of the city and if you went to gigs he was still really really active he was like he wrote I think the first article on nirvana in the British press
26:01
stuff like that when they were still really early on he did he's one of those guys that like is the guy that
26:07
discovered a ban from you know a mail order tape in the U.S or whatever a certain time he was in a a punk band you
26:13
know in the 80s that did quite well it's got sort of stuff so really interesting guy um but you would just see him at Giggs
26:19
like he still went out to quite a lot of gigs and you'd just be like he had this like really distinctive Mohawk type thing he'd be like it's [ __ ] General
26:25
and then you would yeah you go like you watch your documentary on the TV or something and there'd just be like a
26:30
random they'll be just Talking Heads Talking Heads and there's a bit like John Robb and he would always say he'd always start with saying something like
26:37
the thing that people don't often realize about insert subject here
26:42
and I was once at an art gallery and they had a um an exhibit where they
26:47
interviewed all of the people living in a high-rise block of flats because it
26:53
was one of the last few standing in a part of Manchester and
26:58
they went through all of these like Voice pops with the people that lived there and one of them goes the thing
27:04
that people don't often realize about living in this flat I was like it's [ __ ] John Robb and it was it was
27:09
actually John Robb even just round about it was complete fluke he just happened to live in that block of flats and
27:15
that's just like his stock lied about everything in life many people don't often realize about Anna yeah
27:20
how do we get here yeah I don't know I've been missing out man this is a
27:27
tubular beats oh [ __ ] I just started to play like some of those things
27:33
um yeah you've always made a whole [ __ ] career out of like tubular stuff yeah I would say outside of the tubular
27:40
bell cycle um amarok is very worth a listen it's underrated
27:46
um but obviously Michael Phil kind of created new age music so you have to tread carefully because some of this
27:52
stuff is proper shite yeah and also he he literally went through this he was quite a troubled guy right he went
27:58
through this period where he literally joined a cult um so
28:03
like you know pinch assault with
28:08
the Mike Oldfield pitch yourself um so yeah I've also missed what's been
28:15
going on in Cosmos this week um other than like obviously girl props have come up and so I got a ping
28:21
notification yeah um and people also for example people also sent me messages saying hey there's
28:27
drama but I don't really know what I just just no specific drama they're
28:32
like drama I guess they probably quickly phrase this drama I'm like oh God is there drama and then I just
28:40
yeah disappear um yeah I mean they're probably what I've been missing what's been happening in Cosmos lads
28:47
uh so the props I guess is a good place to start so
28:52
your man Don has uh thrown up a fund only open source software is the name of
28:58
it so surprisingly I've just been having a look at a little look-see on the on the
29:05
voting data on this and not many hey this is on June away Juno yeah sorry
29:10
it's on Juno so there's like uh not many validators have actually voted on this
29:16
yet and a lot of the ones who have are no votes right but there's already 41 of
29:23
the stake has voted but it can't possibly have come out of
29:28
validators because out of the top ten there's like two three
29:36
four that have yes yeah there's a lot that most of the top
29:43
10 is about it just Swiss taking and Friends hasn't has voted yes and then and yeah
29:48
we voted no earlier or I voted no earlier so I don't really like understand the purpose of this
29:56
um like it's kind of a blanket statement that doesn't really need to be said like
30:03
there's I think he's referring to the sub-dials and Juno core but
30:09
you know you sort of make that assessment when you're like doing the
30:15
funding right so some things uh closed source that need to be or can be like
30:23
not everything has to be open source in my opinion and I don't know if if just because you're
30:28
funding it means that it necessarily has to be open source but like this just closes the doors to things like you can
30:35
make a good sense a good sense assessment of it when you're doing the assessment but if you just do a blanket
30:42
you know everything has to be open source and you close the door to certain opportunities and
30:48
I don't think it's like a good precedent just to do that yeah I know what you guys think but I I
30:55
agree like I think if if there's a proposal that comes up in core one or subdial or some community pool or
31:02
somebody else's is is um being able to apply funds to a project
31:08
or not buying the source you're not buying the source you're buying the outcome and the outcome you
31:14
hope is more users more transactions more use of the ecosystem and influx of
31:19
users that's what they're paying for so totally so you're you're not paying
31:25
for the source you're not paying for the team you're not paying for the project you're paying for the outcome and the
31:31
outcome that you want is you want an influx of these different types of things and if that if that influx
31:37
requires closed Source or if it's closed source to begin with an open source later and we don't want to be able to allow other teams there's so much
31:44
copying of repos and all this [ __ ] you know I'm slamming eight different repos together to build a new chain and
31:50
blah blah blah if somebody wants a closed Source set until they get a competitive advantage on Juno [ __ ] so
31:56
be it if that's going to drive users and it's going to drive activity it's going to drive dollars into the ecosystem [ __ ] knock yourself out I think this
32:03
is like this turns into like a it's more about the the how we get there versus if
32:08
we get there and I'm totally against that like we want to get there and we get there through good projects that
32:15
deliver value however they do that I think one thing I would say is that teams need to part of the funding
32:21
project that should be a question and if somebody says that they're like hey we're going to open source this and
32:27
they choose not to well that's kind of a problem because because maybe that's part of how we want to be able to determine how much dollars are there but
32:33
if somebody says we're closed source and we have no intention of maybe delivering this but this is what we want to hope to be able to bring and that should be part
32:40
of that that proposal and I think that's totally fine first of all I agree I think that your
32:46
statement is spot on but I'd also add that making your source code open adds an entire level of
32:54
depth to what you're trying to do right so if you're just trying to create an app or whatever you might just be one or
32:59
two guys that are into Tech and they're not relation to the community aspect of it when you open source your code you
33:04
almost immediately are thrust into that aspect whether you want it or not because suddenly you need to have better
33:10
read needs you need to have better documentation you need to explain how do I run my tests you have all these
33:15
periphery things that you don't necessarily need to worry about and may not have the bandwidth to worry about that
33:21
just don't need to be there at the start you can always open source down the line if you want to you also have to consider
33:26
licensing not that licensing really matters encrypted right now yeah yeah I mean that's the other problem I guess
33:32
right is that if you open source it the de facto thing is the nons will Nick it
33:38
even if your license says otherwise right and the other the other problem you have
33:44
I think is that um because we we before we we haven't even
33:52
launched mainnap Hal yet and we have people asking for open source and you have to go
34:00
some of those people just want to Nick the code like I'm sure where else will there be
34:05
I I mean and I'm under No Illusion as well that there are plenty of other chains who are trying to do stuff around
34:10
the same area with nfts we talk to them I've talked about that before and it's just like well why would
34:16
especially when these are more established projects in some cases like why would you just give people who have
34:22
already got a Runway and a team of money your code for free yeah that's [ __ ]
34:28
idiotic business strategy um and I think this is like uh
34:34
yeah there's a bit of a thing here and I think maybe this is why we're all on the same Pages because we're validators
34:40
right we we think this is a valuable enough technology in a space to invest our time
34:47
energy money and accept a certain amount of risk over right but also where did
34:54
the joke about the validators being the biggest egns is just totally correct we're just dgns who have made a career
35:00
out of being a d gen but it is ostensibly a business decision right we
35:05
have the trappings of a business around the degeneracy right but it also means
35:12
that you you are a bit more colder and a bit more rational about these sort of decisions it's not like there's no open source Crusade because it's like well
35:20
if I had to do what I need to do to make money like all the the [ __ ] we had about dumping right it's like no you need to
35:27
sell rewards so that you're not out of business now in the bear
35:33
when your tax bill arrives and you're still having to pay tax on tokens that are now worth nothing
35:39
which is the position that depending on your tax regime you are now in and I think maybe as validate as we're
35:46
in the position where we can look at stuff like that from a team going I don't want to open source and we can go yeah fine we're businesses too we
35:53
understand that you need flexibility of decision making right um yeah and sure these points are
35:58
totally fair as well like um even for internal projects at companies that I've worked at sometimes
36:04
if you just go like hey guys we've ridden this thing then suddenly you've got five people knocking on your door
36:10
asking for a little lunch and learn and you're like oh [ __ ] I am right I don't I've got no time to do that anytime soon
36:17
like it can be like another thing that comes onto your plate and it's even more so when yeah there's Anonymous people on
36:24
the internet being like hey can I you know can I look at can you tell me how to run this or whatever and also
36:29
like you know there's the security aspect and I noticed we got Todd in the chat so I don't know if this is me just
36:34
being paranoid but my other concern would be that the the people who are most likely to
36:41
read your code line by line and the people who are going to exploit it right and you can't
36:46
you can't possibly have found everything so that's another reason why open source isn't necessarily it can be a good thing
36:53
in that I've seen code bases that were very dodgy but like teams were forced to open
36:59
source and you look at their code and you're like this has flaws and you can say even if
37:05
it's just for you you can say don't use it right but that cuts the other way where you're
37:10
like you might have a very well tested well thought out piece of code with multiple people working on it and you've
37:16
all just missed something like we we did how beaters we found a major staking bug
37:21
we had three people check out that code read through it test it you know these things happen right what if that was on
37:28
mainnet and it wasn't just a little bug with staking it was like some major exploit that could drain funds
37:33
the person who's going to find that as the person looking to exploit it right probably yeah
37:38
now you say that but I'm going to add a little bit of wrench into there in that uh secret just had an exploit
37:45
um that was patched because some white hats just um there there was a expert that happened
37:51
from Intel from like six months ago and some white hats were going through Secrets code and they finally were able
37:56
to like reproduce it um deck split on it and so they just revealed to secret Labs how they could fix it so all your point
38:03
stands one unique case and one unique drama within the cosmos is in in secret the exact opposite just happened yeah
38:10
well that that's a that's a quote-unquote L1 and I don't know if we're talking about that or just the
38:16
projects that sit like as adapt that sits on top of Juno I think you might you might be able to make a case of that
38:23
the Juno software and the wasm structure needs to be needs to be open source for that inspection but maybe the the dapps
38:29
that use take advantage of that might not be um so it is so I don't know I I agree
38:35
with that I mean yeah that's the point of having that open source is you want more eyes right I mean that that's that's value too but the other part of
38:42
it is that um you know can can do we have a bunch of you know how many chains can you use
38:47
cosmosm and rebuild the same functionality over and over and blah blah blah blah I mean that that's also out there too
38:53
so to to your point about like you know different different things and
38:59
um you know some things might be better off open source and other things you know it can be closed source to that
39:05
point like you know as far as Juno specifically is concerned there's like
39:10
Different Strokes for different folks with the different sub-dials right so
39:16
for example like hack Juno we changed after the first round we changed our
39:22
documentation to say now that all the projects that are getting funded
39:28
retrospectively have to be open source and public good type things right so but
39:34
that's just that particular program I don't see any reason why the um develop like the growth fund if they
39:42
want to fund like a bigger project that might be you know commercial in confidence type
39:47
information or you know competitive Advantage type stuff in their code base that they couldn't be funded still if
39:56
they have a good chance of bringing in a good amount of users like you alluded to
40:02
previously so um yeah like I say Different Strokes for
40:07
different folks there's different programs for different types of of um apps and and growth so
40:14
yeah I mean a a blanket catch all right is not going to work and it can even be
40:21
extended to things like you got the delegations down right so say um say one
40:26
of the contributions that someone's claiming in the delegations there might
40:31
be some sort of say it's some sort of um you know liquid staking or maybe it's
40:38
like a monitor or or some thing right that they're providing the community
40:45
might be closed Source they might not be telling people how they're doing it they've got all the Bots right so a lot
40:51
of people have Bots that are closed Source they don't um tell people what how they're doing it
40:56
I mean you could write one but um you know like the the governance alert Bots and and price Bots and all
41:04
this type of stuff that they're providing free of charge to the community and they might say well we're doing these things Mr delegation down
41:11
can we have like you know some consideration of that when you're scoring us so you know does it extend to
41:17
that then and then you know there's a bunch of different stuff that people could claim that it
41:23
extends to now because it's just a blanket statement and it's just it's too broad and it shouldn't pass
41:30
so is this just an extension of The Witch Hunt against
41:36
kajira from last week probably yeah I think so I think it's just brain farts and people are like oh [ __ ] let's
41:43
just let's make it official no more [ __ ] close Source you know what I mean
41:49
yeah it's just it it it sounds like trying to reduce a complicated situation
41:57
to a simple solution and that's quite often a Hallmark of
42:04
demagoguery isn't it really yeah so
42:09
yeah I I did I did I did actually see I did actually see this prop and uh we've
42:14
already nowhere veto on it so I think you're the only one so far to know and and nwv
42:22
yep well another veto is for spam props and this is to my view wow it's not
42:27
enforceable um it's not well thought out um I literally literally I was really
42:34
curious what you guys thought of it basically because I I literally just looked at the proper I was like this looks like a Spam prop to me no
42:41
veto and then I came back just before this podcast and looked I was like oh
42:46
it's proposed by John kryptonium and then I gathered I just saw somebody link me some stuff with like Twitter and all
42:53
this and I was just like oh God this is actually a whole thing okay fair enough I thought it was like kind of a joke prop initially and then it was like I
42:59
know it's actually yeah but but my no vo stands I think like
43:05
yeah I don't know if I want you to be the only one with no detail maybe I'll do it while you're while running a podcast here
43:12
um we should be the only one we can continue on this trip but we've had some questions in so I was uh I want to bring
43:19
up some of these um but so back on continuing the open source thing Highlander said what if the
43:25
code isn't safe and folks use it there's too many variables to consider with this kind of prop to just be thrown on chains so there's I guess two comments there
43:31
yeah totally agree with there's a lot of discussion that could have happened around this prop before just yoloing it
43:37
up um but yeah I mean the fundamental problem of like what if the code isn't safe and folks use it I think although I
43:45
just we know we vetoed this from the hip I personally I'm probably not ever going
43:52
to use code on a blockchain on a smart contract that I can't look at
43:59
that that's that's my idea in research as a as a developer
44:06
I guess I can think of um I can think of exceptions but they are
44:12
very very few and far between and they involve a high level of trust
44:17
in the people that have written the code in the first place so I guess it's back to that trust question
44:23
um well I think that no also hit the no on the head right like talking about the
44:28
Bots some of those Bots have been funded through various networks those Bots don't need to be open source who cares
44:35
if they like if they're a little bit leaky that like in terms of like Ram that's it sucks but it's not a big deal
44:41
and there's no there's no danger that can really come of it of you subscribing to some governance proposal updates
44:46
right you don't need that to be open source there is nothing fundamentally unsafe that can happen because of you
44:51
using it like it's not even connected to the blockchain and yet oh yeah the yeah the Juno faucets now opens it's based on an
44:59
open source code base but I've just realized it's not open source because I've never pushed the alterations that I
45:04
made to it to an open source repo yeah so you know who even gives a [ __ ]
45:12
if it is or not so exactly right it's just a Python
45:17
program running on a [ __ ] web server who gives a [ __ ] I'm actually um I'm voting now
45:26
yes and he's putting up a second gov for prop that says I'm sure The Fray but
45:33
it's like a closed Source force it yeah it's the [ __ ] man
45:40
uh yeah to be fair actually I'm pretty sure I never pushed it remotely but
45:45
maybe I did maybe I did if I'm gonna get censured for it then let's go with I probably did because I'm a great guy he
45:50
loves open source um prop 59. no
45:56
so uh we had a couple of other okay that's kind of off topic oh so that's why you some I don't know who typed it
46:02
one of us typed no in the chat really aggressively aggressively type no yeah yeah we got
46:09
one new viewer and you've insulted [ __ ] out of him within 30 seconds no we don't hold spaces fees Irish but
46:17
um that's only because I I'm not sure all of us have a device that can run spaces I was invited on a space I've
46:24
been in violence space twice and neither time have I been able to actually join the Twitter spaces software is so
46:31
[ __ ] terrible it [ __ ] blows it sucks
46:38
yeah it's your older Elon you bought that [ __ ] trash pile yeah so
46:45
um sporty said how useful is keeping contract code sourced I can just re instantiate say the hull contracts and
46:51
have all sorts of deploying app without looking at the code yeah I mean that that is very very true
46:57
but then you can't you couldn't modify it you can extend it all that sort of thing and you'd probably also run in I
47:04
mean ironically you'd run into the same problem which is that if another team pinched your code uh just pinch the byte
47:09
code I think they would run into the problem people say where is this code what is it
47:15
and if the answer was then people aren't going to trust that team actually wrote it and they might
47:20
end up you know the same problem um bizarre said the no is a bit aggressive
47:26
null you should apologize spacious is trash
47:34
uh it's funny has open source
47:39
totally or not right no
47:46
what inscan's not open Sports is it no it's not open scores yeah of course and then I I don't know if they have a custom
47:53
indexer or they just use the the one what everybody else does use there's no way they're using BD Juno
48:01
no they might have their own which in which case is also not open source um yeah so yeah
48:09
yes so cap is is the Kepler wallet uh not the not the
48:16
not the extension the actual wallet the website is that open source probably
48:21
not I don't know maybe the extensions well
48:27
so here's the interesting thing about the Kepler wallet the code on GitHub isn't the final version of the car that's deployed so no it's it's I can
48:35
tell you right now it's not open source because I've tried to make changes to it and they're like well this is kind of like uh the code
48:42
this is the code here's the code everyone yeah it's open
48:49
source yeah I remember like running that once like running the dev build and seeing all the warnings that got emitted
48:55
and going like like this is it I'm gonna go buy a ledger right now
49:00
I mean you you would have no [ __ ] idea what's in the final um you know it's a binary it's in the
49:07
extension yeah yeah right yeah it's a binary you can't check that it's open sourced unless you I don't know compile
49:14
it and check the hash or whatever the [ __ ] they do how do they do that The Fray
49:20
or she'll see Todd would probably know like is it is there any way to take like is there any
49:26
way to take the the public repo and reproduce the binary and compare it somehow
49:34
you built it on a different machine wouldn't it come out slightly different no you know when you get the binary
49:42
and then you share the binary and you compare it
49:48
yeah but like no I think that's a fair question from Noel I mean what if you have the libraries yeah like Library
49:53
versions you mean like linking and all the other stuff that you get used to like yeah
50:00
yeah okay so that could be different yeah yeah so I mean like if I can pile it on a Mac it might be slightly
50:05
different to compiling it on Linux right I'm yeah probably and even welcome
50:10
welcome to computers yeah I love it but also what I was saying is that you you
50:16
don't know like there's no way to really 100 definitively tell that the open
50:21
source code they've got is what they're using is I think that's probably correct right
50:27
unless you build it yourself or download it on the GitHub website right and instead of yeah it's never going to be a
50:33
hundred percent certain unless there is some kind of external verification by
50:40
Publishers that this is in essence why Apple have such strict stuff around
50:46
releasing to the App Store yeah because they have essentially a a at least an audit process that that
50:53
there is a pipeline from developer to to deployment every time that is deployed
50:58
by the same developer and that something doesn't just get you know changed in that process like oh we just sold the
51:05
company to a new company and they're now deploying it like they they want to know about that they
51:10
have to know about that um I have a completely random question unrelated what happens on a proposal if
51:18
everybody abstains you get Quorum of abstaining it just
51:24
fails it just fails yeah it's a failed proposal and then stick around the network the
51:29
deposit is burnt or not this this Loop proposal is uh heavily
51:35
abstained from is it really yeah well I mean the turnout's only 14
51:40
but 76 percent abstain cool well that only popped up today
51:46
right yeah yeah I see 11 abstain
51:52
11 11 abstain 85 not vote and three we voted no on this no no like of the voted
52:00
um token 76 abstain 4 million about 5 million Juno versus about seven or eight
52:07
hundred thousand for yes and no yeah Sporty's actually made a good point in the chat as well which is that most
52:15
JavaScript can be looked at in browser Dev tools and if they've not minified it
52:23
or webpacked it then there's a chance that especially I think is it I come
52:29
over is it one of Chrome or Firefox now maybe both is smart enough that if you
52:35
even if you have typescript uh if you don't Minify it will actually just expand the whole thing into a text
52:41
editor for you and you can it should be like oh yeah which is which is nuts absolutely nuts
52:47
that's cool especially typescript because it's already pre-compiled uh just to JavaScript even if it's I guess
52:54
it's got Source maps in there right so if it's got Source Maps then you can expand it but um
53:01
yeah that's pretty cool I mean that's that's also crazy space alien technology
53:07
which is pretty neat I I don't know like you're not sometimes impressed by how like you're just like oh yeah my browser
53:14
can casually reverse engineer from Source Maps some some compile code I know that's what they're for like that's
53:21
what they're for yeah okay I get that but it's kind of cool they can just like do it on the Fly and be like you can walk through this code in your browser
53:27
that that's kind of like nuts I don't know I mean I remember whenever Noel told me that you could press period on a
53:32
GitHub repo and it pops open a visual studio code instance that blew my mind I
53:38
think holy [ __ ] yeah I was like whoa I need to brace myself the [ __ ] is going my hair goes flying
53:45
back wait I said something you did
53:50
yeah like 18 months ago you told me that if you press dot in GitHub then it pops up source code in like Visual Studio
53:56
code oh yeah Blown Away by it yeah [Laughter]
54:01
um yeah so it's the same like yeah anyway
54:07
so um I'm just gonna uh yeah
54:12
my [ __ ] computer just popped up and said it's your birthday tomorrow I was like is that is it
54:17
really yeah apparently well wow yeah
54:23
um so that's uh that's news that is news yeah I think [ __ ] man I'm like so dry
54:30
and I haven't been drinking enough water I don't think instead of drinking water yesterday I chose to drink beer and now I've got a [ __ ] headache and I'm dry
54:37
what day is it oh Thursday yeah it's close enough so these are actually said what about stars prop 57 to rollback stars that was
54:44
going to be given to levana community prop 57 was that proper 57
54:57
yeah yeah 57 was levana asking for money
55:04
is that I I haven't seen anything levana wrecked dragon's airdrop proposal
55:10
right so the Rex dragons thing is that so I heard something about levana and
55:16
now pulling out of doing nft stuff right because they
55:23
there's some concern about regulatory pressure right um
55:30
and yeah so I gather now no longer going to
55:35
do that um but that's as far as I know I haven't I I don't see anything on the active
55:41
proposals um but I guess they've still
55:47
been funded so it kind of seems like they should not be funded would be my immediate take on
55:55
that about this one yeah
56:01
this uh man this thing's terrible how do we have 40 stargaze proposals within a
56:07
month this is from an old contract [ __ ] upgrades I know there's a lot there's a
56:13
lot going on okay so soy2 Studios said can't be regulatory pressure they pulled
56:19
out of nfts to get options straight it's like only in crypto
56:28
what they're doing is not it's not the less risky thing they are going to be
56:33
more digital heavily marginalized options trading instead of that [ __ ] this yeah there's apparently
56:40
um quite a bit of um Disco again that's the other thing that I missed I've been told that is apparently quite a bit of
56:45
discussion about um what regulation is now going to come down the pipe thanks to FTX [ __ ] the
56:53
dog um
56:59
with the shotgun regulation coming it's coming
57:04
um but apparently the the main concern is like yeah essentially um contagion to The Wider Market
57:11
apparently that's like one of the biggest concerns it's like uh how how do you like put any kind of reasonable
57:17
safeguard um to stop wider market contagium and it kind of seems to me like the more
57:23
that people get into mad options trading the more that more than the GD is out of the bottle
57:29
here I don't know I I don't know does it is even possible at this point to put the genie back in the bottle on like
57:34
wider Market contagion as soon as this stuff gets um more adopted we're all [ __ ] aren't we
57:42
I don't know this Market has a has a uh a real love affair with shooting
57:48
itself into the foot that's for sure yeah it's just bad step after bad step
57:56
and like like some of the story these these [ __ ] FTX stories they're coming out the news are just unbelievable like
58:02
just the as they're starting to get the bankruptcy structure and like everybody's looking at the books and going what the [ __ ]
58:07
it's all funny money it's not really that but like like there's no accountants on staff and those types of
58:13
things like what the [ __ ] is going on so this is like some people need to a
58:18
crypto right but people need to what was that The Fray well the reason
58:25
every the reason it all got completely out of hand right is that when it's your key is your crypto
58:30
you have your crypto right but when it's not your keys it's actually held by a big exchange like FTX who go and [ __ ]
58:37
gamble your crypto yeah but but like like it's it's
58:44
that's a marriage right it doesn't matter like that's a good story like it's good
58:50
it's good like no keys like your keys are it's a good story but the same effect like my valuation is down
58:55
significantly because of that stupid [ __ ] right so it doesn't matter like we
59:01
didn't lose do we lose money [ __ ] yeah we lost money but we didn't lose it because our tokens are gone we lost it because the tokens are now devaluized
59:08
value-wise by 95 because these idiots right so it's nice to it's like it's a
59:14
nice it's a nice crypto way of saying like I gotta hold your own money and blah blah and you can't trust the sex but you still have to have that and if
59:21
you have idiots like this running that [ __ ] then it then what are we doing like what the [ __ ] are we doing I mean
59:27
the big problem I guess I was thinking more in terms of like you know from a regulatory point of view like I would
59:32
look at that and say well this is kind of the point we're making Lads and
59:39
thanks to those [ __ ] idiots we're now losing money right so if you could be
59:45
reasonable about considering whether or not validators who are now losing money have the time or money or energy
59:52
necessarily to deal with all this [ __ ] then that would be great yeah what I suspect will happen is that we are very
59:58
easily identifiable and we have companies and so we will get regulated as well in a way that doesn't really
1:00:04
understand what we do as a business I don't know it's going to be interesting to see what happens but you
1:00:11
know Berry nuts Winter's coming would be my if I was married it's very
1:00:17
nuts if I was a squirrel my advice it would
1:00:23
be very nice Winter's coming really that's it oh age advice Sage advice
1:00:29
when I was soaring in the garden earlier a neighbor leaves out monkey nuts peanuts yeah and there's this there's
1:00:37
these two well there's a whole family of squirrels actually um on the street and um they they bury
1:00:44
nuts when there's nobody around they bury those [ __ ] monkey nuts and they they never find them right because squirrels bury way more nuts than
1:00:50
they're ever gonna find it's like an insurance strategy um anyway one of these screws hopped along the fence and obviously looked to
1:00:56
see like oh is there a place like a bury it and then saw me and was like oh this [ __ ] [ __ ] just had a fight moment
1:01:02
of standoff that just plotted along my nuts I'll bury it somewhere else lads
1:01:07
this guy looks Shifty because this guy with a jet store who's looking very very
1:01:13
Jordan this very yellow man is looking at my nuts I don't know so Todd says uh he
1:01:21
just oh god oh no how rude so Todd says
1:01:26
uh I just looked up the Kepler extension is minified no map files so not easy to verify in the dev tools
1:01:34
there you go apparently Sam bankman freed is live right now yeah
1:01:40
that's a perp walk or like live what what's going on what does that mean live
1:01:47
on what um so yeah so bizarre says oh this is
1:01:52
the discussion about rolling back
1:01:57
yeah um he probably tried to post a link I don't think they can oh yeah
1:02:03
I know all right okay well that that makes sense okay well when we when we this is this is how prepared we are
1:02:09
today um and uh yeah soy studio also points out that the guy from lithuana I guess
1:02:17
in this case it's probably Jonathan is on the Juno growth dial
1:02:22
okay so that maybe is like not good or a
1:02:27
massive conflict of interest potentially so it's the same 12 people everywhere right
1:02:33
isn't it 15 20 people 30 50. yeah I think Community overall we had this we
1:02:40
had this discussion about sub-dials back in the day didn't we where it's like the the overall pretty good idea but only if
1:02:47
you can find enough qualified people and that is like not
1:02:54
not easy to put time and the effort and everything else Associated it's it's a
1:03:01
lot yeah uh yeah oh yeah oh yeah
1:03:10
um what's wrong with talking about only if they think they're getting funding which they are uh I think
1:03:17
dude all right yeah about a dude well they apply for for
1:03:24
um tdf I was it was Terror developer fund
1:03:29
yeah now now the growth fund right yeah and they apply for that funding and they
1:03:35
didn't get it based on um the size of the money they had in the bank
1:03:40
um at the time too much or Doolittle too much not really yeah like why were
1:03:46
you playing for funding when you've got millions of dollars in the bank right yeah it's just opportunistic isn't it
1:03:52
um maybe is that true um depends on what their plans are right
1:03:58
yeah but it depends where the Geno should have been funding that I guess
1:04:03
um I don't know depends again if if they got two and they need 10 because you're going to build something that builds 20
1:04:10
million dollars of value that's one thing if they have nothing and need one because they're building one million dollar value that's something else I
1:04:16
don't know I don't know if that's anyway that's kind of I guess there's also like you know and that's not this
1:04:22
is not to FUD the [ __ ] out of the Eco but like what what user but like okay
1:04:27
two million dollars of your company's money right so let's imagine like is you are on the Juno growth fund we're gonna
1:04:33
play a virtual game here yeah you need to put yourself in this this headspace right you're that Meme you know where
1:04:39
the guy's brain is so big it goes down his back and it's sitting on his own
1:04:44
brain it's like a comfy armchair that's that's how big your brain is because that's how big your brain has to be to
1:04:50
be on the junior growth fund right okay okay so you're in that space you're
1:04:55
picturing yourself as big brain guy okay you've got two million dollars worth of Juno like what is like a cool enough
1:05:02
project for you to be like you've got eight million dollars in the bank let's say so it rounds up to a nice
1:05:09
ten you can see where I'm going with this um they've got eight million dollars in the bank and then you've got two million
1:05:15
dollars and they're asking for your two million dollars to round up to a nice tidy ten
1:05:21
what's cool enough in your book man to give them that two million dollars for you I mean honestly most of the stuff
1:05:28
that that this is kind of this I don't be too negative but most most of the projects and stuff I see is the same six ideas
1:05:34
rehashed over and over and over so um it has to be something else like they
1:05:40
go to different skin it's literally the same it's like right like it's the same six ideas over and
1:05:46
over and over so it'd have to be something that would be out of the uh something risky and something that would
1:05:52
be larger you have to be something retail based or payments or something else that tries to
1:05:57
get an infrastructure and get an ecosystem out of the same six ideas but like how many times can we Shuffle these
1:06:04
coins around how many times can we do nft drops how many times can we do like it's and like it seems like it's the
1:06:11
same type of things right like either we're trading in a ecosystem and we're doing liquid staking that has a bunch of
1:06:17
risks Associated to new tokens that are being generated or like it's it's all the same ideas on
1:06:25
different platforms right and they all have slightly different takes on the same six or seven ideas so I I think for
1:06:31
for somebody if somebody had five million dollars in the bank and say hey we want to be able to take three or four million dollars of General Dev fund it
1:06:38
would have to be something that would be something that would be risky with a high amount of chance of of a low amount
1:06:46
of chance of success but worth it that I think would be worth it like putting a million dollars towards another tool set
1:06:51
that does one of these six things seems like ridiculous to me so I I have a couple of thoughts right
1:06:57
um totally agree but so when I first came to crypto
1:07:02
imagine my disappointment with this uh
1:07:08
so you know it was all oh there's you know this new thing defy and it's like
1:07:13
you know revolutionary for finance and all this other crap right and I get in and I start digging around and it is
1:07:20
exactly that it's the same idea rehashed all over the place and the only thing
1:07:25
defy did was Shuffle around coins it does [ __ ] nothing like what values
1:07:31
are you creating right yeah it's like well you can you can shuffle them from point A to point B and pay some fees
1:07:36
right and trade them and all that [ __ ] but essentially the coins mean nothing anyway like they're not they
1:07:42
have no it's not like trading shares where you've got shares in a company that the company has tangible value
1:07:48
you're trading things that are potentially worthless right right and and then there was like protocols built
1:07:54
off that which just leveraged nothing you've got right you know it's just more shuffling [ __ ] around right and that was
1:08:01
basically all of D5 imagine my disappointment yeah yeah like even like lending like
1:08:07
lending like lending to me in in this ecosystem is it just it's just crazy to
1:08:12
me well the landing is tax Dodge for people who have high capital gains right that's right yeah
1:08:18
so um anyway and then so I came across Cosmos then right and then
1:08:24
found that there were actually some projects that were trying to create um you know app chains with some kind of
1:08:30
tangible value or some kind of actual use case but not all of them obviously but
1:08:36
um and you know they're not the product Market fit isn't always exactly right and that type of stuff that they've all
1:08:41
got the issues right right but at least they're you know trying to use blockchain for that type of thing I mean
1:08:48
in Australia um our uh what is it called uh
1:08:55
concept and a concept the uh who whoever it is who runs basically
1:09:00
the trading platform for Australia for shares is like building a blockchain
1:09:06
based version of that uh over the last like five years or so um which has a real world application
1:09:12
but I mean they ain't gonna have a coin it's just a completely closed Source order book well back end
1:09:19
for with that said it recently was just announced like last week that they're
1:09:24
not doing that anymore the Australian one yeah the Australian one the news just came out about it that
1:09:30
they're not doing anymore and [ __ ] stop calling hey
1:09:36
[ __ ] working in the way oh man like the pager Duty everything goes I'm gonna be mad when people like
1:09:42
the computer thoughts and the phone's gone and the iPad's over
1:09:48
there going everything just starts going to turn off that connected [ __ ] it's
1:09:53
really annoying I just want my phone during not [ __ ] everything I think you're right when I first got involved like osmosis was my first real chain but
1:10:00
but when I was looking at the original projects I mean you have like Akash right we have Greg on the phone like
1:10:06
that I know there's some challenges with the but it seems like they're moving forward it's a real use case it has
1:10:12
value good utility right like even when I looked at earlier it was like meta block which I think is still around
1:10:17
right the idea of like medical records on chain again probably not the right team maybe not the use case it seems
1:10:25
like an extremely Advanced use case to be able to solve so early in this in this ecosystem or in any ecosystem uh
1:10:31
but literally I like the idea uh I think we talked about checked in the in the
1:10:36
past right like identity management is such a [ __ ] problem and going back to this Elon and Twitter thing it's all
1:10:42
identity like could blockchain find a way to solve the global identity type issue maybe
1:10:49
um and I'm not sure if that team and that solution is the right one but but it's a great use case like that is a
1:10:54
real good blockchain use case type of idea um and like like even Sentinel and those
1:11:00
types of things like I I get it like I I find that they're like even like we got involved originally with helium which is
1:11:06
totally blown up but again like I understand the use case and I understand the idea of being able to use blockchain
1:11:12
as an incentivized Network to build out or to be able to create infrastructure and all these types of things
1:11:18
um but it seems like lately like to your point and all like we've it's gone the other way where like it
1:11:23
now we're all just shuffling and like and like there's money to be made there like we'll validate and like I want to
1:11:30
be able to bring value but at the same time it seems like we're getting to the point of shuffling and there's other Secrets another good
1:11:35
example of non-shuffling like I think that's like you need Secret in in a network like you have to have those
1:11:41
types of things um but man like like where are these where are the next use cases
1:11:48
yeah Oracle I think is another good use case like I I mean we talked about that was the other one that came up on Juno
1:11:53
right maybe we could talk about that too but like the idea that Juno needs an oracle Network I totally like not not
1:11:59
just Juno or like Cosmos needs a really strong Oracle like a real Oracle Network
1:12:05
that has real incentives that chains will pay for that has really good
1:12:10
understanding of value I think that is a really good use case I mean I think that's a that's one that
1:12:18
assuming it can be worked out like that it's quite complicated and obviously I have an opinion and obviously a conflict
1:12:24
of interest but I think like that's the one where smart contracts are like a a much better
1:12:30
fit than trying to [ __ ] around with um modules and stuff and
1:12:37
like an oracle is a thing that you need to iterate on a [ __ ] of a lot in order to get it right and that's literally the
1:12:43
point of cosmosm so but could could you write a contract that goes out to 75
1:12:49
different exchanges pull that data and then have it in a in a I think maybe answer another question
1:12:55
but having an inspectable way where you can trust that that outcome and say that we all agree that this is the right value coming out of this not just a
1:13:02
contract there's a bit more to it but concept well conceptually right it's not
1:13:08
that dissimilar to what noise are doing which is just a small contract so the difference is that they can
1:13:14
afford a longer as I understand it like they can afford a longer delay on the
1:13:21
randomness Oracle because it just matters that it's random not that it's the random number that came out most
1:13:27
recently your time Bound in a way that you're not um when you're dealing with like
1:13:33
snappier price feeds right but we know you can get a tenement chain down to one and a half seconds two seconds something
1:13:39
like that so there is a way of I think applying the
1:13:46
same principle to say okay well as long as you as long as you're okay with the price feed being
1:13:51
a couple of seconds out which it would be anyway over IBC because of course it's going to be you
1:13:59
can apply that to a sliding scale of of blocks to get it to a point where you can you can reasonably assume that
1:14:06
you can apply the same technique and then the rest of it is actually off chain isn't it and that's just a proof
1:14:13
so it's kind of that thing of like you know all the hard stuff like the detail
1:14:18
is very very different but a lot of it um same as say sport theosa said in the chat two million dollars for non-coin
1:14:24
based privacy preserving voting systems yeah
1:14:29
another use case that basically comes down to proofs cryptographic proofs
1:14:34
right into the chain right like a lot of these different use cases essentially eventually boil down to hey I have a
1:14:42
wallet that happens to have a public key co-located with it I would like to to
1:14:48
tell I would like to sign onto the chain some information that isn't just a coin transfer right
1:14:56
and then there's other stuff going on in the world and that data has to come in at some point and and there is a generic
1:15:04
protocol there is an interface in there right in the same way that IBC is a
1:15:09
thing there is a way of structuring that interaction and I think that is like a
1:15:16
case to work out how you can build up the components that are needed to make that work with a smart contract
1:15:21
uh okay and I think you like it with that it might require extension to the to the
1:15:27
chain obviously to add additional bindings so the smart contract sure right with those bindings
1:15:33
um yeah I think that's possible I think that's a use case and and if that's a
1:15:38
contract or a chain whatever that is but again it's a something that's required and needed I think for the
1:15:43
for the ecosystem but and I I think and then uh Highlander called out uh both
1:15:49
gaming and music those are I mean again good use cases where
1:15:55
gaming we've had you know a couple different chains have launched and trying to be able to launch related to
1:16:00
um finding ways to be able to create an open market around you know DLC and other types of things which good
1:16:06
use case I don't it's not going to change the world but it's a good idea uh music You Know music and my eyes is kind
1:16:12
of limited it kind of relates back to some of the meta block thing which is it's a really good idea and you're
1:16:19
making really large bets and changes to a pretty established ecosystem that is really resistant to those types of
1:16:25
things but doesn't mean it can't happen you just started making money like right they made a loss ten years yeah yeah are
1:16:31
they making money yeah I think they're making money now but I don't think they're making money hand over fist but I think they're making money and I think
1:16:38
a lot of how they make money is actually Partnerships is it on that new Metallica drop
1:16:46
okay yeah um I I'm very very salty about Spotify because
1:16:52
um we uh I used to run independent label it's
1:16:58
how um Jake and I met uh meow Jake we we met doing labely stuff back in the day
1:17:06
um and uh yeah the we would release a record that did moderately well in a
1:17:12
kind of underground way you know sell a few thousand copies and you'd see like our sales going along and being like
1:17:17
yeah okay we're selling some copies and then we'd put it on Spotify and our sales would go down our streams would go
1:17:24
up and the stream's worth [ __ ] [ __ ] nothing right yeah yeah and like literally we only capitulated even
1:17:30
putting stuff on Spotify because fans get so angry that they are paying for a Spotify subscription and your [ __ ] is
1:17:36
not on there they send you so many [ __ ] messages and they bombard the band with [ __ ] messages and then the
1:17:43
band goes like why is this not on Spotify and you're like we released your record we pressed it to
1:17:48
[ __ ] colored vinyl it cost several thousand pounds it's not [ __ ] cheap we need to like sell those copies
1:17:55
that's how this [ __ ] thing works um but eventually you capitulate right because you're just like look it's just
1:18:01
not worth asking that I understand it I understand the band wants to Market to their fans I understand their fans want to get the thing
1:18:08
and and you know me just going like well somebody will slap it up on YouTube it doesn't matter there's a way of listening to this music torrent I I
1:18:14
always used to say when asked like I'd rather people torrent go to the effort of deliberately stealing or torrenting
1:18:21
it because I don't give a [ __ ] about people torrenting it I give the [ __ ] about people paying for it for nothing that's
1:18:29
the problem honestly torners torners are probably by far the more true music lovers out of those two bank those two
1:18:36
groups hey look I Taurus a lot of music and do you know how many
1:18:41
CDs I [ __ ] own I I can shitload I own a [ __ ] shitload yeah I've got like I
1:18:47
think about 100 maybe 150 vinyl records um I probably have well 500 CDs and I'm
1:18:54
storing in a in a storage unit for the rest of my life because it's just too hard because I didn't trust Apple music
1:19:00
I literally have I have three packing crates I ripped them all they're sitting in a storage unit and paying every month
1:19:05
for the store them for no reason whatsoever I'm exactly the same I have like absolutely crazy crazy no reason CDs and
1:19:13
I'm just like I just remember that you remember that I don't know if you had this like on a science program in the UK
1:19:18
they spread they're trying to show how like tough CDs were back in the 90s and they like around you over it and stuff
1:19:25
not look around you right no but it was I think it might have been the show that look around you was based
1:19:31
on which was because yeah yeah it was a real show like obviously look around you as kind of a spoof version yeah but I
1:19:38
think they literally did spread jam on a CD leave it like outside in the rain and then they just like brought it off and
1:19:44
like you know shammy chamo'd it clean and then put it in a CD player and it played and I was like [ __ ] it okay so
1:19:51
that's not gonna happen to your Apple music collection is it they they uh sarcophagus of jobs just [ __ ] decides
1:19:59
one day to delete your music collection from Beyond the Grave sarcophagus of jobs
1:20:04
[Laughter] that's a very old
1:20:10
I I came into work my day I was really really tired uh like about 10 years ago and I just for some reason I said Steve
1:20:18
Jobs wrong I said Steve Jobs one of my colleagues was like that's
1:20:24
really weird that sounds really biblical I was like it was just after Steve Jobs had died and I was just like oh because
1:20:30
everything you do online is is um uploaded to the South sarcophagus of jobs and he will judge you and they were
1:20:37
like so now I always just say those whenever
1:20:42
I think about like um you know a big company taking your [ __ ] and deleting it or something I always just say oh I guess Center the sarcophagus of jobs
1:20:49
[Laughter] oh man
1:20:56
we already named these episodes it starts out because of jobs would be a good name
1:21:01
next episode
1:21:08
um there's a music nfts thing isn't it it's um
1:21:14
uh exists right yeah that was like a distribution where they were I think they were trying to make
1:21:20
where if they streamed it then it tracked payments back to the artist and all that kind of stuff too right um I
1:21:25
thought omniflex is doing the same thing I just wrote that in a chat but I thought omniflex was doing that I know that's on I think that's on the stargaze
1:21:30
road map too yeah I mean so unrelated to this podcast
1:21:41
so totally unrelated to this podcast uh validators leaving networks it seems
1:21:48
that it is finally bad enough to leave a network now that
1:21:53
is it happening losing money yeah well I mean who do you got living
1:21:58
you know I know there is an exodus from constellation happening Galaxy's been
1:22:04
happening dig has been happening is that is that value is leaving chains or validators leading Cosmos
1:22:12
oh okay all right like like [ __ ] this I'm out incredibly low value chains like
1:22:19
people are starting to uh you know bail on like Atmos oh that's spicy
1:22:27
oh that was hot well they dead cat the dead cat bounced at UH 60 cents or
1:22:34
something and they came up and now it's going down again so that's not a good sign I don't know I don't know why I don't
1:22:39
know why that chain is in this mix of losing 75 of value in two weeks
1:22:46
I don't know how it held up for so it's the opposite side of that question right
1:22:51
yeah like it's uh you know stayed around a dollar fifty for way too long like I
1:22:59
don't know how it's soaked up all the cell pressure yeah they must have been some sort of Market
1:23:05
making going on is it I was saying it's a very earlier but isn't this I mean the
1:23:10
the value within that is being able to run being evm compatible being able to run evm based contracts in a much lower
1:23:18
gas environment with faster block times right yeah but I mean there is like
1:23:24
other networks that do the same thing there are there are a lot of networks that do the same thing and there's also
1:23:31
and also like AVM gas right now is not bad even on ethereum right like it's it's pretty reasonable
1:23:37
and maybe does that impact things and like is that have an impact in terms of change wanting to move or projects
1:23:43
wanting to move I should say I don't know I mean I think the core value added was
1:23:49
just that it's evm compatible and then it is IVC compatible as well right right that's the core value add but
1:23:56
that's that's starting to be in discussions about even moving to more chains like near near is going to be IPC
1:24:02
compatible I think in the next three months or so like they have a team actively building it
1:24:08
and so they have Aurora which is their EVN uh side chain
1:24:13
that'll also be coming up and I think nears block times are something like 0.2
1:24:18
seconds or so yeah it's real fast yep
1:24:23
yep yep yep yeah I mean also just solidity and GMI
1:24:28
to be honest like it can cause most people have sort of standardized on a on
1:24:34
a stack that is SDK cosmosum that is the standard Cosmo stack now
1:24:41
and you can tell that because the Hub uses it right it's on osmosis so
1:24:49
yes I love the way for us it took it took a second for sure we'll see to realize
1:24:55
that I was even making a joke there it's like oh yeah
1:25:00
um I love the unmute mute
1:25:06
like uh like [ __ ] I can't remember but for some reason she was here I thought it was you that originally posted the
1:25:12
meme where it's like the osmosis pointing itself in the mirror going you're the Ruah Hub but I don't know if
1:25:17
that was you I've just like falsely remembered that uh yeah it might have been me I don't
1:25:24
know I might be the spicy but I I might not
1:25:29
be okay I've thrown at Peak poke at you if I if I settle on anyone
1:25:35
yeah SPF poker poker or polka's intern are probably the two spiciest meme mods
1:25:40
um some so a couple more questions in the chat we've had uh lots of trolling
1:25:45
on like oh do you think do you not think bostrom's gonna make it um but whatever
1:25:51
um but uh reverse I said bandcamp sick yeah Van Camp is sick it's already this
1:25:57
is the thing like web 2 and web3 like nobody in web 3 is going to solve the problem better than band camp it's
1:26:04
really annoying they got bought out by epic but you know maybe they won't ruin that product um
1:26:09
uh there was a question about zero knowledge proofs um I think that was Juno juicer
1:26:15
and that was supposed to happen a while ago and my guess is that so I met the devs
1:26:23
for Juno juicer in Prague in May and over a beer I remember saying hey guys
1:26:33
do you have legal advice and they were like No And I was like
1:26:40
I very strongly think that before you do anything else you should have legal advice and be very Anon as
1:26:49
well because they were not all that and on and I don't know
1:26:57
yeah I I I think as soon as you've as soon as you've in any way identified yourself on the internet you shouldn't
1:27:04
be working on a thing like that like it's that's just not smart and so I
1:27:09
I don't know if we're going to see that thing ever run maybe maybe it's already running I could be wrong but I
1:27:15
haven't seen any further development recently and so um yeah
1:27:21
there's a Canto thing too it says partial match I don't know if that's related to oracles whether that's
1:27:26
related to privacy or whether that's related to evm I'm getting so confused we've crossed so
1:27:32
many streams here guys on this thread this has been such an interactive conversation yeah is uh I think they're evm
1:27:39
compatible um
1:27:45
the list of AVM compatible chains low gas fees is now [ __ ] long
1:27:51
um right yeah one of them is but also like the
1:27:57
the eighth side chains um and then you know Roll-Ups and all
1:28:02
the other stuff there's just any number of um networks supporting eth so like
1:28:10
you know the the Allure of um evemos was that it was an IBC
1:28:16
compatible copy pasta chain right you could just bring the stuff right from from eighth into like the IBC world but
1:28:25
in reality I don't think I've seen much development other than coin shuffling there at all so
1:28:31
but to be fair that's probably the same thing could be said about eth anyway
1:28:38
he said he said what everybody was thinking um ultimately we should just [ __ ]
1:28:44
delete everything we can't just that's right I mean God damn it Bitcoin is exactly right it
1:28:50
doesn't work right it doesn't work but like it is a very elegant solution to a
1:28:56
problem that didn't particularly exist yeah that's right
1:29:01
um it's created an industry of solving problems that don't exist so we're we're all here something that's
1:29:08
deep um yes I've Just Seen The Commonwealth discussion it's from part of the stargaze team and it is pulling back the
1:29:14
rewards for levana seems like a good idea took it took an hour to get to that
1:29:21
conclusion okay there we go that's that one um says that he had to live abroad to
1:29:28
see the value in crypto to like stash your assets Maybe
1:29:33
I guess it's probably just the we're all abroad [Laughter]