entities that traders might have used back in the day or something like that.
But it was used by Gaddafi to avoid sanctions or well, it was used by,
it was used by Gaddafi's tax lawyers to evade sanctions.
It seems like super sketchy basically is what I'm saying.
Like the more, the more I look at it, the more I'm like.
Welcome to Game of Notes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent
ballad teams.
Yeah, we've been going for quite a while.
Hello and welcome to Game of Notes, the weekly podcast on the
Cosmos from independent ballad teams.
And I really did not realize I'd been rugged on that one.
We were just talking about bizarre Dutch incorporation strategies that as it
turns out are used for massive evasion of potentially weird criminal stuff.
So anyway, fun times, fun times.
We're laughing and we're learning.
We're not doing is watching the live broadcast button.
Yeah, what we were not doing was actually paying attention to what I assume
Noel was doing over in the background there.
So, excellent.
So we've let's let's just kick off top of the show.
We have a big old tombstone of the week.
Over on the got the air horns as well.
Air horns, well, of course, on Chihuahua, right?
Yes.
So obviously RIP for the validator affected thoughts and prayers.
Which I believe will be getting resurrected similar to the
the was it secret one after the bungled upgrade on secret.
They resurrected a tombstone.
I think they're going to do the same thing on what by rolling back state or no.
I just just resurrecting it.
Just helping.
OK, just helping.
Just helping.
Yeah, I think there was some talk.
No, no, no, they they brought the so in secret.
They brought it back from the dead.
How'd they do that?
I have no idea.
But they did an upgrade, I think they did it as part of an upgrade.
Oh, yeah, you can make the chain stay.
I mean, this is a fun approved state.
Sure, there's a lot of beautiful things in this immutable blockchain.
Yeah, don't tell me I do that.
You could do whatever you want.
Yeah, exactly.
It's immutable until there's not great handler.
Exactly.
And then the validators don't check the code and then the SDK is too complicated.
Most people don't understand it.
And then all of a sudden the phrase making, you know, $10,000 a week.
Exactly. All of a sudden we are making big bucks, fellas, and nobody's quite sure how.
The answer was all in the upgrade handler.
It always was.
What happens?
It was you, Fredo, it was you, Fredo.
That's how they fuck you.
So the thing that you're going to check anything in a in an upgrade, check the handler.
Exactly.
Yeah, so it was on Chihuahua was a Gorinode, a Gorinodes.
I don't even know if it was, I mean, it was obviously it was their fault,
but I think there were some bad directions in there.
And it was kind of a fucking state.
And there was a lot of testing going on and different types of strategies
to figure out what was going on.
And then.
So am I right in thinking that there was also like a tag that was released
and then the same tag was reused?
Because that also seems like a.
Yeah, there was a reuse.
I think so, which yeah, I think that's correct.
There was additional commit on the same tag, right?
There was there was several instructions to download, like snapshots as well.
And like.
Man, I don't even know how they got to a block on one of them.
There's I was always at the head and I wasn't at.
The block that we ended up restarting on.
So I'm not sure what happened.
Yeah.
So then they doubled and then and then today it actually halted again for about 30%.
Us, we're in that group and a few others.
So around, I don't know when it was 10 a.m.
Eastern, four o'clock UTC or something.
So it like 30% of the balladiers just all have hashed at the same time.
Small contract execution.
Yeah, that's what that's what I was assuming.
I was assuming there was a wasm difference or something else, but it seemed like I got,
I pulled a, after the, after the chain was moving, I pulled a snapshot from somebody
who did not have their notes stop, which is weird in the second halt.
And then I pulled that snapshot on my notes and that they all hashed out and a bunch of others did as well.
And so somebody, I just grabbed another snapshot from somebody who did not have that second app hash.
And then here we are. So I don't know what's going on.
I'm not sure it seemed like at least scary.
It does seem scary.
Cause actually what I think, what somebody was looking at was the fact that the, we were doing,
we were looking at what wasm contracts, I guess it's just like a some sort of hash number.
It's in the file directory that's in there.
Right.
And we were just looking at, we were just doing like a diff on those things.
And the, the, the one that was on my note that hashed was definitely missing wasm files.
There's no doubt about it.
And those wasm files were from today. So that doesn't make any sense.
That makes me think like this is going to happen again for some reason.
And I don't know. And it's permission.
So that, that doesn't really make any sense at all. Honestly. Right.
So I don't know. I don't know.
Yeah. So you've got a, Chihuahua's not permissioned wasm.
It's not.
Oh, it is. Oh, okay.
Then maybe then that, that makes a little bit more sense than maybe there's an issue with the node not downloading.
The node not downloading that wasm or something.
Could be a wasm cache problem.
What is a wasm cache?
Well, so when you go up different versions of wasm,
there are caches from previous versions that are made.
And there's, there's basically a strategy in calls and wasm to clear that out.
So you don't end up running an incompatible version of wasm code, essentially.
So we've, we've had app hash problems with this on uni a number of times.
Principally, because the way that calls and wasm knows that thing has changed
is basically dependent on the upstream people not doing weird things to mean that that check won't
happen and it has changed in the past, which is how it sort of slipped through the net.
Which is why like when you see that particular kind of, because it's basically like different
kinds, there are different severities of app hash, aren't there?
There's everybody app hashes, 125 forks.
And you're like, okay.
And the node dies, right?
That's when you have like the whole processes shits the bed and like we're done.
Yeah.
At that point, you're like pure non-determinism.
Yeah.
Right, you know, it's bad, but it's at least very obvious why it's bad and then what steps
you kind of need to be taken from there.
Yeah.
The weird ones are when like, you like what sounds like you're describing over 67% of
consensus keep moving, but let's say 10, 20% of consensus app hash.
That's when you know, it was 1% of consensus, you'd be like YOLO.
Right.
Because it could be somebody on a 10 years old Intel architecture or something like that.
And yeah, we do know or anecdotally suspect that there are serious problems with certain
older architectures and, you know, Wasmur and stuff like that.
There's some gremlin in the system that seems to cause potential non-determinacy in certain
situations.
But yeah, when it's like 20%, suddenly we're into that's quite scary that's territory,
which sounds like this maybe is.
Yeah.
Like my node was still, it was still, it's doing that thing where like it hashes, but it's still
dials, right?
The whole process is still running and it's just kind of, it has a consensus failure and
so it just falls out of consensus.
So that, so, and plus it seemed like there were some, some similarities in terms of
what nodes died from one snapshots and this and that and the Wasm folder structure.
So it kind of pointed back to similarities in architecture or just similarities in setup
and running similarities in overall file size.
So meaning like, like, like we're just doing like DUs on the Wasm folder just to take a
look and say, are these even close like where they are?
The other thing was weird about that is the snapshot I got was from a node that was continuing
to run.
So that part was weird.
Unless, unless that snapshot was taken and for some reason was there was contracts executed
between the snapshot taken when I applied it, which is possible actually, because they
probably took it right after the, it's possible maybe.
Yeah.
That might be, that might be the case.
So because they might have just taken it, they might have just used Cosmovisor and left
it to do the backup on their backup node or something like that.
Right.
I don't know where they got the snapshot from.
Yeah.
Yeah, but wouldn't, yeah, but then the node would, it would sync those, right?
Like if it, if it has a snapshot from two days ago, like it's any snapshot, right?
Yeah, it would just fast sync.
It would just fast sync those blocks.
Right.
Yeah.
So I don't know, maybe, or maybe I don't know what happened with there.
So anyway, so, so back to agore nodes.
That happened.
And I think the, I just heard like the foundation or just folks that are in there just said,
hey, we want to, you know, this was a fucked up situation.
We want to take care of you and blah, blah, blah, which means I think they'll probably
try to find ways to give back the 10% that was slashed and try to get agore back in the
set and all that kind of stuff, which I think 10%.
Or it's probably 5% Chihuahua.
You're right.
Yeah.
It's probably 5% if they, because they're basically just like a straight up copy paste
to Juno on there.
So if they didn't change any config, it would have been 5%.
I can check.
It's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a,
it's a, it's a.
5%.
Yeah.
It's 5% for double sign.
Yep.
So yeah.
Is that right?
Jesus, Jesus.
Oh no, no, no.
I was just looking at my bloody.
So I just actually looked at the Chihuahua validator set and noticed that
Pocachoo had packed on a billion of, of delegation in, like, the last day.
I was like, what the fuck is going on there?
Billion.
Billions.
These numbers are so abstract.
What was that?
One dollar?
The delegations?
I don't know.
I haven't looked at it.
I took Joel off my price board because it was making me sick.
What is this?
So someone delegated one billion.
Is that right?
Where the fuck did this come from?
I don't see that in the delegator list there.
$800,000.
But it's from...
I bet.
...of dollars.
Wait, what is $800,000?
One billion.
Get the fuck out of here it is.
Oh, sorry.
No, eight billion.
Oh, sorry.
Eight hundred bucks.
My bad.
No, no, no.
Well, this accounts got eight billion in it.
Oh, okay.
All right.
That is quite a lot.
I think TBL.
What's a TBL in Chihuahua anyway?
So this must be one of the...
What the fuck?
Well, this is the developer fund.
Yeah, this is the dev fund.
All those...
All those Pikachu snaps.
Got to pay for the snaps.
You got to pay for those snaps.
Got to grease the palm.
That is the biggest...
We had a big delegation away from us in the last week on Juno.
And I was like, what the fuck?
Warpath and then I saw it was to Polkachu and I was like, okay, fair enough.
Yeah, we had a...
Well, this is pretty easy.
It's better to use it.
Anyway, so this will find...
I'm not even angry.
Like, this is a backflip on their delegation policy because they said...
So they had said that they won't delegate to anyone in the top 100, right?
So they daily delegate everybody 100,000.
Do they?
Maybe twice a day.
Yeah.
And then they said they wouldn't delegate the top 10, but now they just put on a billion
of delegation to Polkachu and a billion of delegation to StakeLab.
So that's kind of confusing.
Yeah, but I mean, it wouldn't be the first time that a team had just completely ignored
their own delegation.
That one billion, I think if I'm doing the math right is 102,000 bucks.
I think that's 102 bucks.
102,000.
It's.00010246.
So I think that's correct.
Oahua is still definitely worth more than I think it is then.
Yeah, like, I mean, there's enough zero.
I mean, there's three zeros here, but...
What has the bigger market cap?
Oahua or, I don't know, like a recent chain like territory or something?
I don't know.
I don't know if there's a price on territory, is there?
Well, I guess there must be.
I mean, I assume it's on Osmosis, but I base that on...
It must be.
Absolutely nothing.
It must be on Frontier, you'd have thought, because of permissionless and whatnot.
Yeah, yeah.
Yep, yep, yep.
I can check real quick.
I should know this.
We even got...
We even got Rama in the chat.
You know, Rama, do our maths for us.
I feel like Rama would also have opinions on some of this, but yeah.
So what the fuck were we talking about before that?
Something, something...
Oh, double stone.
Yeah, double stone.
Yeah, so anyway, that's the two of the week.
It's exciting.
That was honestly, some of the stuff, chains are pretty loose about it now.
And I think when things get halted and...
We were talking about this before in channel.
There's two different approaches when chains halt.
One is, let's just try to try quick fixes to move past this because we don't want to
acknowledge what a...
How big this problem is.
So let's just...
Oh, we just got to change this one thing.
Everybody's change...
150 of you change this one thing and we'll be fine.
And then that creates issues and blah, blah, blah.
And then eventually other teams take it to say if something happens and they stop, they
take a day or two, they go do...
They go chest it and test that and they come back with a plan and blah, blah, blah.
So, I think, Flouting a little bit because they're trying to find an easy fix.
And sometimes there's not easy fixes, especially when it's so distributed.
Yeah.
So, the other one that we saw a bit of a spicy time with was Jackal, right?
They made blocks for about an hour and then hit the buffers.
But then their problem wasn't...
There was no outpash was there.
It was just that they realized their Genesis file was no-boy.
I know.
Apologies for my tired English person not even trying to pronounce Spanish.
I guess I canceled now.
I'm really sorry to the Spanish speaking community.
I'm just very tired.
We're having a wall knockdown and then there's no hot water and there's brick dust everywhere
and it tasted...
Even where I'm sitting right now, it tasted bricks.
So, everything tasted bricks.
And warding bricks.
Amazing.
Delicious.
Probably lead paint has worked its way in there.
Certainly called up, obviously.
And that's a fun thing.
It kind of gets between the cavities.
So, not feeling my best here.
But yeah, there was some problem with the Genesis file, wasn't it?
And that was the root of the problem.
They were like, okay, we're just going to not...
We're just going to stop now.
Don't worry, everybody will be back up shortly.
And I think...
I don't know if this is Polk of Validate.
I think so.
He's in the Discord.
I'm not in that Discord.
Yeah.
I think Polk are actually the one that swung into them and was like, that's...
If you just try and restart your mainnet, what of your validators is still going to be running
and everybody's going to double-sign?
Everybody's going to...
Yeah.
Well, I went in there, but the rumor was that there was an incorrect Genesis distribution
to some members of the foundation or the team or something similar to that.
Is that what it was?
I don't know what that caused, but I just saw a note that said that there was a bug in
vesting.
Oh, yeah.
We finished now with some vesting schedules and need to relaunch with a slightly modified
Genesis, which is...
Oh, was this Jackal?
Yeah.
So it's like, let's just back it up.
We're live.
This is real ballers, but...
I mean, that kind of feels like a test net thing.
Like you should run in test net and just speed up the blocks to see how your vesting works.
I mean...
Well, I think our question was that...
Because we had this issue...
Was it Juno or Evmos where they were talking about Regeniscing, but we were worried about
IBC transactions and flight or something similar to that, right?
And like...
So we were questioning if this is live.
That was Evmos that they were talking about Regeniscing because of that halt that lasted
three months.
They were just going to back up, right?
They were going to back up and just dump a bunch of transactions.
Everybody had questions about IBC transactions and all that stuff.
How long was Evmos down when that happened?
I don't know.
A long time.
It was a few weeks, right?
Two or three weeks?
No, it was more than weeks.
Was it?
It was over a month.
Yeah, it was a while.
I'm sure it was a long time.
Yeah, it was a while.
I remember that because there was a bunch of test net relaunches in there and they were...
Yeah, the whole thing.
Yeah, definitely it wasn't weeks because everyone was sort of like, yeah, are you going to relaunch?
Remus has three months on that.
Yeah, we've got conclusive partial match, definitely months, Rama, three months.
The viewers have spoken.
It's like...
Why is it?
I'm going to put in here, good morning, dodgy double digit double signers.
Was there some mass double signing somewhere?
Or is that what you're talking about with the Jackal?
No, I think we were maybe the trial thing.
I mean, I think it's just trying to make even more iterations on the...
The episode today's name of today's episode is...
Oh, dodgy double sign.
Yeah.
Oh, dodgy.
Right, dodgy, like fucking hell.
Today at Game of Nodes, we explain the show title.
Today at Game of Nodes, we explain to a tired man in his evening explains to a tired man
in his morning what the show name is and why it's called that.
Actually, if you've heard pronouncing it, it's quite like saying it quickly, it's quite
hard.
Doggy double sign drama.
Yeah, say it five times fast.
Doggy double digit double digit.
Not sure I could do it more than once.
Yeah, so I guess they wanted to read.
So did that happen?
I don't even know if they restarted with the new Genesis or not.
Jackal.
Jackal back.
It was like starting around now or half an hour ago or something.
With a new gen.
Yeah, they read gen text and stuff.
I guess there wasn't too many or no IBC channels up yet and there wasn't any transactions.
So they said, fuck it.
And we did it.
Did they actually stop the network?
Oh, yeah.
The first time today.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
I think it was working because I've never seen some tweets about anything else.
What I heard from Polka was there were no IBC channels up, so they didn't have to worry
about the huge fucking massive pain that is when you have to deal with those.
So they were just like, they in the end, I think, changed the network.
The chain name.
So like fully forked and just started from scratch.
It works.
Here we are.
The immutable blockchain.
Fuck it.
Did they start?
Does Jackal have like a lot of how can they have that many vesting accounts?
Like, they got whales already.
Don't all new chains have whales?
If they're vesting accounts, it must be tin.
Really?
I mean, that's like the only time you ever get vesting accounts, really, in Cosmos.
I don't know that they're used much by anybody else that's not a team basically locking up
a shitload of tokens for themselves.
Right.
I think that's like secret code, right?
These poor vesting accounts, ours.
Yeah.
I've literally, I don't think I've ever seen anybody make a vesting account for themselves
because the way almost every single tax regime in the world works is that if you have the
funds and then you lock them in a vesting account, all that you've done is just fuck
yourself.
That's literally all you've done.
And what is the point?
Because what can you, you can't earn any more on vesting than you could from staking.
So you may as well leave them liquid and stake them like a vesting account has.
Somebody correct me, has absolutely no function other than to make it so that if your tax
authority says immediately liquidate your funds to pay us a large tax bill, you have
to instead go, oh no, I will then said elect for bankruptcy and then you can put me in
prison for not handing over these funds that are locked in a vesting contract because I
have an absolute giga brain.
I mean, the reality is like they're not going to put you in prison for like the stupid vesting
account.
They're like, all right, pay us five cents on the dollar for what that's hypothetically
worth and next time hire a proper accountant who's not Mickey Mouse.
But you know, it's not as good a punchline if you say, if you don't add the we're all
going to jail thing, which was, you know, it was a long time ago now, but we should
have got the, is it a joke back in?
So because obviously we've been live for like over a year now, but back in Lisbon just after
we were live, we were saying we should get we're all going to jail t shirts and we we
chickened out of it because we were like, it's a bit too real.
Yeah, that's that fun.
Yeah.
And then obviously like all the stuff has happened since like prop 16 or this other stuff where
like, ultimately we've, you know, by the point where you're talking to lawyers and you're
like, is there a chance we can go to jail?
They're like, they're like completely untested and this is good advice.
Maybe you're like, okay, I'm glad I didn't buy that.
I'm glad I didn't put me over the top.
Well, it's like, like, do you want to be, because like, especially if you go to any
kind of crypto event, you always get like, somebody takes photo around you and you're
just in the back of the photo wearing that shirt.
Can you imagine being like in the back of a photo wearing a t shirt?
It's obviously you and it says, we're all going to jail and they're like one day being
in court, they blow it up.
You know, one of those big boards, they bring them to a courtroom to then show the jury.
And just like, is this, can you identify yourself in this picture?
And you're like, fuck.
You're like, shit, I am going to jail.
And that picture ends up in a 75 page Bloomberg article.
That's a cautionary tale.
Yeah, I read the whole thing, but I bet there's some pictures of Daquan in that vein.
That article was pretty good.
I will put it in the show notes, but there was a good Bloomberg article that kind of
went through, I don't know, the state of crypto.
Maybe, maybe a little bit of a background of how we got here and what's there and if
it's real and if it's not real and where it's going to be real and what's bullshit and what's
not.
I actually thought, I mean, it was, it was a bit layman like throughout that whole thing,
but it was well researched.
And I thought the points in it were largely not awful.
So we'll put it in there with that was really interesting.
So anyway, you don't end up in that, but there was a lot of pictures in there that were similar
to that.
Yeah.
I thought a lot of it and I thought the bit on trying to explain how the kind of cryptography
works for a layman was really interesting.
I thought it did a good job of explaining why sort of co-located or ergonomically accessible
keys is such a big deal and why you should care about cryptography and why private public
keys is the thing.
I thought that bit was really good.
Yeah, just explain the hash.
That's even difficult for people to understand, right?
Yeah, exactly.
I thought that was pretty decent.
I also thought the bit where it sort of, the other thing I thought it did well from the
bit that I read was that it did understand that for the majority of people who actually
day-to-day work in the space, we do see the funny side about how we, like we are self-aware
about how there are problems with in crypto.
There are problems in the crypto community that it is quite funny.
Like there is a dark comedy to almost everything here.
I think it's one of those things that I've not seen really a mainstream coverage before
is an acknowledgement that the people who work in it, we're not fucking roofs.
We do have a sense of humor.
We do understand that we must have some motive.
That means that we have to have, like everybody who works in any area who's not like a complete
psychopath has to have a release valve to deal with the strangeness of their reality.
And crypto is one of the strangest.
So of course we have a sense of humor and it's not just like, you see the superficialness
of like the wagmy and all that sort of stuff.
And it's like, yes, that is the thing.
LFG and all that kind of like, the stuff that is just day-to-day, like rockets in the chat.
Like yes, there's all things.
Those are all things.
But there is also like a deeper level of understanding.
There is some meta, there is like the culture, especially in the builder scene and like the
validate scene, all those sorts of areas.
Like the culture is actually like deep and complicated and not homogenous.
And I felt like the author had at least gone deep enough to like engage with that and was
trying to get that across as almost like the sociology of some of the people involved in
it.
And it's an interesting like footnote.
Like if you were reading about it later in 10 years time, you would read that bit and
be like, I think that that's almost where some of the most interesting bit of the story
is like.
No, just had a slap on some the way.
I think that's accurate though, because like even here, my kids just talking to them, sometimes
they view brands as people.
Like it's very common.
I don't know if it's very common, but I think at least a little bit in the US, maybe it's
not elsewhere, but brands that are becoming people where it's like, like you have a news
article about art about Apple and they treat Apple as a person.
That is like a hive collective of a bunch of different thoughts and there's like a structure
to be able to make decisions, right?
Just as Oh, Apple did this, right?
Where it's like, oh, it's just one type of thing.
And I think crypto can sometimes happen that too.
Well, crypto is doomed or crypto feels blah, blah, blah.
And it's more than, you know, talking about millions and millions and people.
It's not like a, it's a movement that's not something that has, you know, there's no hierarchy
within it.
And some of these projects are going to be great and some of these are going to repeat
past mistakes and some of these are going to be total shit.
Some of these are going to be illegal and some of these are not going to be illegal.
And Fray's going to jail and dolls falling asleep.
Like all those things are going to happen, right?
It's amazing how like, yeah, it's amazing how sentiment changes in crypto though, and
like the attitude towards the whole, the whole thing.
Yeah, you put it out of discord channels.
Yeah.
That's a joke.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
Like the waves of change move pretty quick in this ecosystem.
Yeah.
So you can just wake up one day and the whole, and the whole like attitude of everyone has
just changed to something different.
It's like super bizarre.
Yeah.
I think there's a, I don't know what you guys have seen, but I feel like there is an increasingly
bad vibe in some areas.
Like I just sort of looking around, I've kind of seen a bit more hostility and a bit more
kind of like anger and stuff of late.
And I think that might be the-
Is this a Cosmos ecosystem comment or a crypto comment?
Yeah, specifically.
Yeah.
I think like the, I don't know if it's like the fallout from a couple of weeks of quite
heavy drama where there was a lot of, it got quite political because it was like anti-Semitism
and stuff on the table.
And obviously like, you know, you can't look away from that.
So I think that obviously brought a lot of, don't ask, don't tell, let's not talk about
politics people, like to blows, I think in the space maybe.
But I don't think it was just the atom thing.
Like I think, I don't know if it's just like long, we're now long into a bet and it's no
signs of slowing down, but it does feel like community sentiment is like, like the pitch
walks are out.
That's the expression in English, right?
Is the pitch walks are out.
That's kind of my general feeling, but there's no, this isn't like the Prop 16 where it was
like, everybody's making money, but those guys made loads of money.
Let's just fucking burn them down almost for the lolls, right?
Let's just get it done.
This feels like I'm losing money.
Someone else is making money.
Yeah.
Or even just like, yeah, the pitch walks are out like trouble at the mill.
You know, there's something, there's disturbance in the forest.
You know what I mean?
Like I try to, I think what you say is like, instead of like, there being a, you know,
a industry full of blissful ignorance and the happiness that now like people are as
a community, as a whole community in crypto, like there's a lot of like 90% of crypto at
the moment is probably, you know, losing money from the, from the, especially people who
entered like in the recent bull market and you know, like people aren't making money.
Other people are going back to day jobs and, and all this type of stuff.
And then, you know, they might, because, you know, there might just be nothing else to
do now except for like turn on each other and that type of stuff.
Instead of like, they're being in the bull market, people doing better than everyone
else and like, let's get that guy now.
It's like, well, no one's doing well and who can we fucking hang shit on?
But to be honest, like, I didn't even notice it coming the whole, the whole turn in the
attitude, like I knew we were in a bear market, but to be honest, I did, you know, only really
say a few things on Twitter and that's about it.
I don't get into depth in reading all of the news on Twitter.
I've read stuff from people that I'm interested in and that's about it.
And then, you know, as a validator, we sort of live in our own little world where we're
looking at new networks and reading stuff and doing research and working on projects
and, you know, doing our own little thing in our own little world.
And then you look up one day and everyone's just like pissed off and fighting with everybody
on Twitter and you just like, well, what happened in the last week?
So I don't know if you guys feel the same way, but it felt like it kind of snuck up
on, well, on me as a validator.
I don't know about you guys, but yeah.
Yeah, I think a bit like the, I don't really watch Twitter too much either, which is back
to our amazing marketing strategy.
Yeah, I need a marketing guy still.
If anyone's like, yeah, maybe it's interested.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
This channel came in nodes, these one, I need one, no needs one for any one to be all the
same person.
It's an only S type marketing.
Actually came across a dude the other day who's like pretty good at graphics.
He's like 3D guy.
That's actually a battle.
I asked him to make a graphic for game of nodes for our background on like our banners,
like a proof of concept on the banners.
And I told him I wanted it to be themed like I wanted to have the throne like in a game
of throne desk type, like a scene with the with the sword throne, but with like computer
related replacements.
Have you put this into Dali?
Just put it into mini Dali.
Exactly.
I've tried on Dali.
I mean that thing can't even come up with a passion over the ground.
So just enter.
Getting nodes sitting on a throne of SSD sticks or NVMe sticks.
Is that what it is?
I'm on it.
I'm talking like a stylish graphic.
Oh, okay.
Not like your fucking meme graphics.
But we definitely need like, you know, some some marketing on game of nodes.
But it's so bad.
So what do you guys think about?
I mean, I think you got mixed feelings about this, but I put out on Twitter this week or
last week or whenever it was on the game of nodes account about the potential of doing
like one on one interviews pre recorded for certain people as like potentially a different
channel but related channel to game of nodes.
Just more so that for a different audience, like we have people on the show here and we
talked to them about various things, but it was more about like having a addressing the
like more of the community audience rather than the Dev and Validator audience that we
sort of appeal to at the moment.
I mean, I could break out my rate card for that one because that definitely sounds like
work.
You can break out your what break card?
I'll break out my rate card for that one.
That sounds like work.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I get it now.
I do.
You mean like project owners?
Like you want to talk.
Why would we do a project owners on the show?
Right.
Or you mean like more like?
I mean, actually, I mean, obviously these people would be related to their projects,
but more of like a deep dive with actual people and their careers and stuff like that.
But you know, that could also be not sounds like you need to add questions to the spread.
She is what I'm thinking because like, how do you get in the crypto stuff like that?
I kind of like classic questions I put in the spreadsheet that they don't get asked
if I'm not the person say, oh, it's a warm up.
How did you get it?
Well, the thing is, is that like this podcast can never get picked up by the algorithm because
of all of the shit that we say in here.
So it was more like having a separate channel that could actually reach an audience instead
of our 10 people.
Does that sound like it sounds like work?
Yeah, that's an actual interview.
That's an actual interview show.
Like you want to do research and be prepared.
Yeah.
I mean, the majority of interviewing is actually pretty straightforward.
You'd be surprised how little.
Okay.
I want to be like two discursions to the people I've interviewed in the past.
So like you can get away with an astonishing, astonishing verging on callous lack of understanding
of your subject.
If you can essentially reflect back what the person says and then get to keep talking.
Building a rapport is far more important than actually understanding what the fuck is happening
around you.
And I based that on like 15 years of doing interviewing as part of my job, like for others
in another environment for which I gather pretty good at it.
But the swearing is impossible.
Not swearing.
That's the bit where I'm just like, I don't think I can make words without fuckers punctuation.
It's a high note in there.
I just, I think it would be really difficult.
Like, yeah, it's really hard to say the same things about swearing.
Like I just, I find it really, really difficult.
Like genuinely, I just don't like have to write sort of thing.
I just, I don't, they just.
It's got to be in there.
What you're saying.
Maybe I can, maybe I can get a stream deck and every time the phrase starts talking,
I can just start mashing the fucking like bleep button.
Yeah, you need like a, you know how they used to do it on live radio is they would have
a three second delay on the street on the, on the summer.
Yeah, I had time to get a, that was how it all live broadcast used to be like that.
You need to produce.
You got a sensor.
That's a sensor.
You got a sensor in there.
Yeah, exactly.
Just because otherwise, I think in the UK, they used to be specifically like a spot fine
as well as on the air.
So they, in the US.
Yeah.
And it was like non-trivial so it was worth having an intern.
Sitting there.
There we go.
Right.
You know, I think if you're asking if you want to start a second podcast with no on
null and you want to run those late night with no late night with no, I think you have
a hundred percent blessing.
You know, first interview would be funny if I just interviewed myself.
Like so.
How the fuck are you so damn handsome?
I mean, it would be quite fun to edit.
What's your favorite movie?
Yeah.
What's your favorite movie?
It's an heat shit.
Yeah.
Heat is shit.
That's basically what it would be.
Yeah.
That's probably decidedly average movie.
I agree.
Now that you mentioned it.
You're amazing.
So I went to Dali Mini and it doesn't really understand Iron Throne.
It doesn't understand Iron Throne?
So it just puts the Iron Throne in a server room.
Oh, the server room?
Is that what it did?
That's pretty funny.
Yeah.
I...
Okay, well then let's see it.
Australian bloke.
Let me see if I can put it in the...
That's pretty funny.
Add over...
No, okay.
Right.
So, all right.
Okay, hang on.
Just don't end the stream on accident.
That's all.
Right.
Okay.
I'm going to mute myself and work out how to add this overlay without accidentally
adding the screen.
You know this is a podcast, right?
No, we can actually see this.
Okay.
Well, people on the podcast, unfortunately, are going to miss out on some real genius
here.
By Dali.
But Dali has tried very hard and I'm going to honor it by showing a couple of the pictures.
So I'm going to mute myself and so I end the stream with my own incompetence.
So Adam said, Adam Baum said, if you're doing it, it would be nice if they were tech dev
related.
Look at the fucking...
The average community...
He's working hard over there.
Look at his got his nose pressed to the screen.
How does this angle and technology work?
Hello.
Sorry, man.
What was the...
He was saying, Adam Baum, let me put it back up.
He said, if you're doing it, it would be nice if they're tech dev, dev, or then average
community member.
I think that's kind of what we try to do here actually.
I think we try to hit a little bit more on the tech slash dev structure and...
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be asking them what kind of cereal they eat and like...
Perfect.
Those are the answers we need.
How they manage their sleep schedule.
What inspired you to appreciate that kind of cereal?
Did we get it figured out?
Do we have an image?
You could do like universe style.
I would inspire you to rug pool the community.
Holy shit, man.
What are you trying to do?
Hey, there's a picture of the unnecessary.
What is it ever ticking it?
It does have an ink in it.
It sort of...
What the fuck is that?
This one's kind of Geiger-like.
That is Geiger-like, yeah.
It is Geiger-like.
It's pretty cool.
Actually, Geiger's house slash museum.
It's good.
Have you?
I haven't been there.
So, the future reference, man, you just click on the little present button down there and
click on share a screen and then click on brave tabs and then just add that shit.
And then it'll present to the screen.
You're muted.
The fuck in hell?
I go forward from browse open on two monitors.
It's very easy to screw up.
And I just like be like, ah, just docks the spreadsheet.
I have a little bit of my porn.
Well, playing the spreadsheet, you can see who's typing or whatever and it would, I guess,
docks you serve.
Hey, easy enough.
Whatever you want.
Yeah, I guess 35.
I'm wondering if you can get Dali.
Hang on.
I think Dali is not smart enough to know what, I've got another idea.
What are you trying?
What's the address for Dali?
Oh my God, are we doing a podcast of real-time Dali's of downloads in a server room?
Yeah, so I should say Dali mini because I'm too cheap to pay for credits for Dali.
What's the address?
Yeah, you come up with a better AI generated server.
What was it?
What was it you were trying to get?
Iron Throne made of sir.
Iron Throne made of NVMe sticks.
That's the fucking challenge.
What's the address for it?
Put the address in the private.
Aion is the name of the service.
I think the host, the Dali mini thing, which is not as cool as that.
Like if you buy credits like the full fucking Dali thing, it's actually really impressive.
Yeah, that one runs on lookup.
What's the address for the mini?
The Dali mini is kind of finger painting by Dali.
Dali mini runs on a Raspberry Pi.
I've got credits in.
God damn it.
I'm going to start muting you people.
Listen to me right now.
I've got credits on Dali.
So what's the address?
I don't remember it.
How do you have credits if you don't know the address?
I don't know.
I just don't remember.
I don't know.
Google.com.
Have you heard of it?
Google slash dot this address dot php.
How do I find things on the interwebs?
Put a Yahoo and then go down the actual higher gear equals string.
How do I find things on the internet?
I used a variant of that really shit old joke the other day.
It's just somebody much younger and it just confused them.
Wait, what's your joke?
I missed.
Well, you know, like this again, this might be a very particular thing for my age group,
but it was just like, it was like for a period of time, maybe in the mid to late 2000s, there
was like putting somebody down for being a bit of a grandpa where you just be like
www.fuckoff.com slash do one.
It's like very, very, very very dry.
It was just like, you were like, I don't know.
It was like, it just made like a fake.
It's just a whole it's just a fake web address.
And there used to be that, is that site still around that let me Google that for you site?
Remember that one?
Yeah, we're for something browser and the mouse moves over.
It's like, let me type it in.
I know it's that is a fingertip.
I used that when I was on a project the other year.
And things, it only works right?
The person if they never seen that, I don't know.
And therefore we'll click on it.
And this person did not know it had never heard of it before.
And I had, yeah, it was, they had asked me something like kind of installing the simple
and then they had actually, they went and did that, then they got really insulted.
I was like, I was like, stay code of management, stay code of management.
That's how we do it.
That joke has worked for like 20 years.
It still works.
It's pretty.
Now for folks.
Oh, no, we're not watching.
We're not watching.
Daly, never not.
No, I just did the thing that the fray was afraid of.
I like she had the wrong thing.
What do you suppose this likes this section here is for?
That's an arrow pointing up through.
I've got a, I got a, I got a kind of half.
Okay.
One.
What did you write?
What was your search string on this one?
What was your, it was iron throat made of computer path.
Dark.
Well, that's pretty dark.
I don't really know how to use this.
Game of nodes, I am thrown in front of it.
Game of.
Yeah.
So same of.
Yeah.
Game of, because I gave no game of nodes, give a thrones.
Cause that's the thing.
That's the actual real thing.
We're not a real thing.
This is not.
Daly doesn't give a shit about this podcast.
This is not real.
We haven't hit popular culture yet.
Uh-oh.
It's not in there.
Okay, so try iron throne made of rack servers.
What the fuck is this one?
What is that?
Is that, that looks like graphics cards or something.
It's not bad.
What, what?
I don't know.
They're in the middle of the scene every time.
Cause it's Geiger.
Geiger is behind Daly.
Daly is Geiger.
Um, partial match is said.
I'm surprised none of you have downloaded stable diffusion and played with that.
That's free, right?
That's free.
Yeah.
I mean, it's the basis of these, these models, right?
Oh, it's, um, yeah.
I mean, really should, but also have been working this, this podcast is the, is my time off
for the week.
This is my me time.
I spend the whole of it with these two.
I'm trying to show it to you when he shows up.
That's worth the rate.
Watching, watching no cycle through a website is.
Yeah.
I was, I was trying to find all these random things.
Uh, but anyway, this shit's getting scary.
It's pretty good.
Yeah.
I mean, it's got, it's got a ways to go, but there is a tremendous amount of coolness
in that, in that piece.
It's not going to replace artists or anything, but there's a, there's a lot of, there's a
lot of cool stuff there.
Yeah.
It's kind of astonishing, isn't it?
Really?
I mean, all of this stuff is ready.
I mean, like, I'm not, I don't know, I'd be too like vague about things, but you know,
computers and pretty, pretty neat what you can do with the computer now, isn't it?
I mean, all those, all those are based off of images that already exist.
So there's not really creativity in there, right?
It's really a bit of mashup of different types of things.
But once it starts understanding and kind of relating specific images to specific feelings
and you start getting that piece going into it and kind of breaking it down.
And like, if you put like, you, you pick dark theme, like dark theme doesn't mean anything,
right?
But it, I guess I kind of figured out dark theme means a pull up.
It means in the situation, when I started typing in like, you know, dark themes and stuff,
it like, it went from like this bright and sunny crap to like, you know, misty fucking
shit with red lava floor and whatever.
Right.
So, but if you're like sad or something or like something similar to that, I wonder
how it, if it starts to put images together into sad or like how the hell would it know?
In my current mood, like, you know, right, make a scene in my current mood and it's just
like, checks the Juneau price and then.
But the thing is though, the, what is, what is art?
I mean, like as an art for, for a human artist is also just reacting to inputs, isn't it?
And mashing together a bunch of.
With their own style, right?
Yeah.
Like the way that they see those things, right?
I, I agree with, I'm with you.
Art's a reflection of like feelings, right?
And experiences, right?
Like what they've seen and what they picked up in the past and what drew them in and their
own take on it.
And then I assume there's feeling, like you said, there's feelings in that too.
I don't think a computer can replicate that, but can it, can it look at a billion images
around others who have said, this is what sad means and turn that into something that
they could say, we think this is in the theme of sad.
I don't know.
It's possible.
I just tend to think that art is just a communications medium with a very high bandwidth.
So like you look at, you look at that like the toilet, you know, the toilet, the Mutt
toilet, where it's just a toilet with the word Mutt on it.
Can't remember who did it.
Sorry.
Mutt?
To surrealist artists.
The famous piece of art where it's a urinal and it says Mutt on it, right?
It's like classic piece of art.
Classic.
But I think about how much information is contained within, like if you looked at that,
you're like, this is like a whole discourse on art and surrealism and like the challenging
nature of what's being done here and what is art.
And it's contained in this one moment that you take it in like that, like the bandwidth
of that information download.
You just had that communication that's been beamed into your head is crazy.
That's kind of what I think art is, right?
So the question is, like, is how the viewer perceives the art more important?
Or like, is it necessary that the artist is trying to communicate something?
Or is it enough that the viewer takes sensory input from that communication and then takes
something from themselves, right?
Because otherwise, if it has to have a human going like, I have an artistic vision, here
is what I'm trying to communicate.
Even if they don't know what they're trying to communicate, they make a piece of art to
communicate and they want other people to see it.
That's the primary thing artists want to do, right?
And hang out on a wall, people go, hmm, interesting, I take something from that.
Because for those people, like the artist could be dead, right?
Or an unknown artist, another thing, right?
Especially in the unknown artist case, no different from a computer, does it matter?
Like you look at something and you're like, hmm, that's challenging and provocative.
And then something tells you, oh, a computer made it.
Are you going to be like, that is suddenly no longer challenging and provocative and
my reaction to it was completely invalid?
No, you could probably go, interesting.
That is perhaps even more provocative.
Do you see them?
That's it.
Marcel Duchamp.
I just looked it up too.
Yep.
Well done, partial match.
Just because, thank you, partial match.
Just because I don't, I'm not cultured enough to know the artist.
I don't think I've seen this piece before.
Yeah.
I'm not missing much.
It's not year in all either.
I'm missing much.
It's not year in all.
It is a year in all outside, but yeah.
I don't think I've seen this piece before.
It's a piece.
It is a piece.
No, I agree with you.
I think your, the point is right and it'll be interesting to see kind of where, how this
thing learns.
I'm wondering if they actually take a look and see you.
I'm wondering if, if like in, in nulls like, you know, pictures of iron thrones with poles
up the ass and like his thing, if they actually take a look and see like what was copied or
what was used and like use that as an input to go forward and like, is there any learning
involved in that type of thing would be interesting too.
We've already caused controversy in the comments.
We've already got Adam Baum saying that Duchamp's fountain is not art.
So probably not.
I mean, what is it?
I mean, it's a podcast.
We're not, we're not, we're not answering what is art today.
I know, I know art is something that you can't right click and save as.
That's an NFT joke.
I hear that all art, you have to be able to right click and save as that's very important.
Is that right?
It's a, it's mutable.
Scott McLeod has a good definition for, for art.
It's anything that a human does that doesn't directly involve survival or fucking.
He doesn't phrase it like that.
He's a very, very mild-mannered man, but it's, it's in the, I'm sure I must have mentioned
this in the show before.
There's a great passage in understanding comics where he basically draws a panel where there's
like this caveman trying to seduce a partner and then like, and then like a saber-tooth
tiger comes along and like the potential mate like hops up a tree and he's sort of saying
everything to this point, none of this is art, obviously.
And then he's got this caveman running away from the saber-tooth tiger and then they get
to the edge of this cliff and he like basically jumps up to like this tree and catches it.
He's like monkey-barring off it.
And the, the tiger just shoots past him like Tom and Jerry.
It's out of roadrunner style and like shoots past, there's like, on thin air.
And the final panel is like the tiger looks over its head, over its shoulder like, you
know, sort of again, loony toon starters.
It's about to obviously fall into this canyon and the caveman is like hanging by one hand
and goes like, and then Scott McCloud like draws an arrow and says like, art.
He's like, who knows?
Maybe this is how comedy started.
He just mutes himself.
I think I've said my thing.
I said my thing.
Oh, okay.
Adam Baum is like, he's, he's not a fan of the, the chomps fountain.
Not a fan.
How do I turn the volume off on bloody discord?
That's you beeping.
It's you.
Like, I don't, like I don't hit that shit enough.
It's going to, it's going to go by this podcast.
It's going to go into my eyes constantly.
I can never have it off.
I just discovered that I'm a fella was he and started messaging me.
They want to go kangaroo hunting or play two up or something.
So speaking of art, right?
Two up.
You both right?
If we, I think, I think when the game of nodes crew finally be face to face, two up
is just what we're going to do.
I'm totally, I'm actually, I was actually looking at eBay.
We just, we just progressive a gamble our entire company away via the medium of two up.
Just like it.
Maybe we should do it like a web three version.
Just bet bad kids.
Oh my God.
What if, what if two up, but if you lose your bad kid gets burned?
Wait, hang on.
Perfect.
Hold up.
I was going to bring up no pixels, right?
Because it seemed like a good segue from art to no pixels.
But what if there is a piece of art for you?
What if we make a coin flip game where in order to play, you have to put your NFT into
it?
Okay.
Not sure what the reward is here.
Come back to me on that one in a minute.
But if you lose, I know that it burns your bad kids.
It burns a bad kid.
But what would be the win?
What would you win?
I guess you probably have some kind of a prize pool, right?
There is no win.
You just, it's just the game to let the weather or not your NFT gets burned.
It's just, right, it's just rush real that.
It's validator operations in a nutshell.
Exactly.
I was revived whatever this game is called with my, you know, $70,000 board.
Yeah.
Maybe there's kind of a weird game ask element to it where you know what it is.
If you survive, it gives you a new NFT that says you played the game and you survived.
Oh, we could, we could do a Stargaze badge.
Yeah.
Maybe that's it.
We do one of those badges from Larry around surviving two of us.
Hang on.
No, no, no.
Hang on.
Use the noise Oracle for our randomness.
Okay.
Thank you.
So it gives you a game NFT, but with an inlay of the NFT that you survived it with.
So like if you put up your $10 million NFT and you survived it, people are going to be
like, holy shit, man, you're fucking insane.
And then you have to get that tattooed.
Sorry, you can talk now.
That's actually really good.
I hate to say this now, but it's actually quite a good idea.
That's a good idea.
Any guy, any guy, then you got to get, then whatever you, where we end up with, you get
tattooed on your leg or something.
I kind of like, I kind of like the fucking shit book because even if one or two people
played it and then came out like I gambled my really rare bad kid and I got away with
it.
I'm a legend.
You'd be like, I don't know if you are a legend.
You're an absolute legend.
We'd call it like NFT roulette.
No, it's too obvious.
Russian NFT.
We're still going to DJ NFT.
Don't mean.
We do.
Maybe this is DJNFT.Z.
This is the cool guy.
Yeah.
This is my qualify for that.
The most DJ thing you can do is play the, play the deer hunter with your bad kid.
You don't gain anything.
You can only lose.
I love it.
Yeah.
I come over here with somebody I know like with like with their mother-in-law and like
their partner had had to go out to do something.
I had to go to work.
So there was something came up and they had to leave and then the mother-in-law was just
like, what should we do?
I just put on a film and they put on the deer hunter.
Like it was just like a Saturday afternoon or something.
This person never seen it before.
They were just like, I want to just sat there, maybe sit through the whole thing just unexpectedly.
Imagine watching the deer hunter going cold.
Don't know what it is.
Just kind of awkwardly with your, with your mother-in-law.
Have you seen this movie?
The deer hunter.
The one we've been talking about for the last 20 minutes.
No, didn't you tell me not to watch it the other day?
Oh, I knew it.
I knew it.
We were talking about it.
I was going to watch it and the fray was like, it is the most fucking boring thing you'll
ever watch.
Oh my God.
I won't watch it then.
Save me three hours.
Oh my goodness.
Once again, speechless.
It's a very dark film.
I think you said something along the lines of like, you know, you'll never get the three
hours back and you'll want to kill yourself at the end of it.
I was like, well, that's true.
And yet it's kind of required.
It's required watching right is like, you've got to watch.
You got to watch your ones.
I don't think I'll ever watch it again.
I watched it a few times, but like a few times is enough.
It's enough.
Like it's a it is a it is a it's a it's a fucking ringer.
Like you have to be in the right mood to watch those kinds of old movies too, though.
So you need to be like at least halfway into a bottle of good whiskey and have your phone
turned off.
It's got to be late.
Yeah.
Middle of the night type shit.
Yeah.
A lot of those old films as well, they are almost all of them have pacing problems and
quite a lot of them are about a half an hour too long.
That's like the classic.
Yeah.
Classic problem with films.
You know, there was a weird point in the 90s where they just started making like from
like that.
I don't know, like 1988 to like, there was a period of time where it felt like people
were just making hour and a half long films, right?
That's what I'm saying.
It was like, it was after the bit where everybody was like going to a double feature and wanted
to be entertained.
At some point, they started making hour and a half long films.
I think about it.
So like, I pretty sure like Wayne's world and shit like that.
That was all like hour and a half.
Maybe from New York's hour and a half.
Yeah.
You know, a lot of that film films in that period, they're quite they're quite snappy
and there's some exceptions like Point Break.
He is fucking long fair game now.
But now they're like, it's like break too long.
200 minutes, 130 minimum stuff like that.
Two, two hours, 10.
You better have a lot to say if you're going to keep me in the cinema for two hours, 10.
Three hours, three minutes for this movie is a bit long.
Yeah, I would agree.
Wait a minute.
I'm are you are you saying that gelato are doing the DGNNFT roulette?
Jesus, that's awful.
Did we just come up with something to let us do?
She's done.
We're not next week.
Next week.
We're officially out.
Fuck this.
We're also badger bites as null you look, I'm guessing so tired.
Yeah.
It's like a good sleep in Shelly.
Yeah, that's kind of just my look.
The valvite look, isn't it?
This is like genetic to validators.
Yeah.
Before we were joining, I was trying to come up with a name for the null RV.
Like he hasn't named it, which is really weird.
Like it's his house on wheels.
You should name it, right?
You have to give it a name.
Tombstone or I said Shelly, but that wasn't really good.
Like maybe.
Like maybe something to do with bears.
Like with bears.
Winnie.
Cool.
You don't have bears.
No, but we're suffering a bear.
Oh, the bear market.
Oh, okay.
That's deep.
It's bad.
I was just thinking about kind of like the ecology of Australia there.
Badger.
And also like Winnie is like a Canadian bear as well.
So like doubly.
Doubly.
Not relevant to your situation.
Oh, here we go.
So a badge of bike did clarify.
He said, I looked ass tired.
Thanks man.
Sure enough.
Okay.
Yeah.
Or maybe that was a name he wanted to give you RV.
Ass tired.
I am speaking of tired.
Like two things happened in the last couple of days that have increased my tiredness,
aside from the fact that, you know, I've been inhaling brake dust.
For the first time in a little while, an EC2 instance must have got recycled or something
like the underlying the box.
And then a crash looped itself, which I've not seen that happen in a year or two.
So that was really fun.
What do you mean a crash itself?
So it became unreachable basically.
And then when that happens, they try and reboot themselves and they just crash looped.
So I had to like fully bounce and recycle the.
Did you have to do a terminate and restart or did AWS actually automatically realize
that they're automatic Reaper, I guess, tried to do it for me.
And it was.
But if anybody is wondering why the Juno force that was down for an hour and a half in the
wee hours of the morning and it's I woke up and Max Juno had sent me a message and was
like, I like that you put all these in here for me to recognize that every time you do
that is a fucking nightmare on the editing side.
So just cool your fucking jets.
Dude, everyone takes me like five minutes.
Just every time you do that, it takes me five minutes.
It's five more minutes of my life.
Fucking slow down.
All right.
I was like, should we do another podcast?
Exactly.
Edit your own shit.
I'm dying.
I'm dead.
It was one already.
Please stop hitting the sound effect.
Stop hitting that shit.
75 tracks and audacity or whatever is just cool your jets.
Oh, does it make a separate track every time we do that?
It does.
Yeah.
So then you have to like find where to put it.
Yeah.
And like the stream yard thing is like, like it doesn't line them up.
So it's just like, oh yeah, it's at like 42 minutes and eight seconds.
Well, fuck, there's a big eight seconds is pretty like within eight seconds.
Within a second is pretty long.
So like trying to line up voices and shit and everything else.
Yeah.
It doesn't, it doesn't zero.
It doesn't like zero pad.
It doesn't.
It just gives you like a time and the time is close.
But I do some editing.
So the time's changed.
It's like a whole thing.
This is how much care I put into this podcast for our, we should, we should really market
this.
So it's worth, it's worth saying we are starting to, we seem to kind of do a really good job
for a few episodes of like really like hammering the guests and then we get a bit tired.
We knocked it off for a few weeks.
This is more fun though.
I have more fun with this.
We've got a bit, I can't wait for the, can we talk about the doozy one?
We got a really good one coming up on Mesh, which is going to be really cool.
It's like hard to organize guests, right?
Especially if you want to have multiple and then like you really have to like be, if you're
not fully into it too, it's hard to have a guest.
Like if, you know what I mean?
Are you organizing guests?
I thought the organizing guest was on the other side of the screen.
Are you, are you, are you organizing?
I don't know who's organizing.
Oh, okay.
Just checking.
I've organized guests in the past.
Yes.
Okay.
I don't know what I want.
Yeah.
I can't, I can't point.
Yeah.
The mesh one will be good.
Who's organizing the mesh one?
That's, that's you, right?
No, no, I think, no, Frey is getting, I think two guests.
I'm getting one guest, I think is what we're trying to do.
I already sorted.
I'm just, are you sorted?
Yeah.
Well, I have it up.
You want me to get a guest too?
I think my mom's free that weekend.
What does your, what's your mom know about mesh security?
What's that?
Will she be, will she be staying in ass tired or are you going to,
are you dilating it from home?
Put her in a, in a cot in the annex.
In the annex of ass tired.
Okay.
So I, so I lost, I lost a box and that was, that was kind of freaky.
Cause I was like, oh, okay.
Got to completely rethink, um, like how, how we would alert for that situation is also
really strange.
Cause like the, the error.
Yeah.
Also as a test net box, so it, we don't have every screaming pager duty error set up for
either.
It's like, uh, it's not an alliterate, it's just an RPC notes.
You just hit and like the RPC endpoint as a trigger in that there's not much else, right?
Yeah.
And like basic.
So we do do some stuff via, um, public RPCs, but then what's happened happening recently
is there'd been quite a few problems with public RPCs.
So, um, some people have been rate limiting or turning them off with stuff like that.
And that is a little bit of a, I think basically like, I'm kind of at the point where for extra
redundancy, are we going to run our own RPCs just for our own monitoring?
Um, that's not what I'm kind of thinking.
You might have noticed my general reaction to something is to kind of do something until
I'm like happy and I can sleep at night.
And then when something bad goes wrong, I like, they're massively overreact.
Yeah.
So I'm like, right, do we need to rig up our own private network of RPCs low balanced
around the globe?
That's kind of where I, and I'm sure like, for a test net faucet, yeah, to serve your
fucking like eight random requests on this net faucet.
People are just spamming the shit out of, but we also had, um, on, um, we had a, a weird,
I had like a full blown phone going off page GT alert on, uh, over on an aptos and I sent
you sir for a message being like, is it me?
That's always a bad sign.
Yeah.
Is it just me?
It seemed weird to get like one ping and then nothing.
Uh-huh.
Cause it then degraded to a zero incident almost immediately.
And I was like, so I sent you sir for a note being like, I think something weird's happened
with peering.
Like a node's gone down or something adjacent because that, you know, that's how consensus
can work.
And we, and we've dropped a, dropped a, um, a proposal and you serve it just texted back.
I think your node was down.
It doesn't go where you drop the, like I see a, I see a dip in the metrics and that's
you.
Yeah.
How many of you know, how many did you lose?
Good pep talk.
We're losing some nines.
That would make a good t-shirt.
Losing some nines.
That, that would be actually like a good, uh, you know, um, Cosmo versus shirt.
It's like Cosmo.
We're dropping nines.
Dropping nines.
You know, cause you're there on the piss.
That would know.
That is just Juno first.
Yeah.
Dropping nines.
Getting cyber attack dropping.
Dropping nines.
Yeah.
Should actually make that shit.
Yeah.
Gamer nodes, Gamer nodes merge.
Gamer nodes drop in nines.
Drop in nines.
2021.
Yeah.
Actually, yeah.
Game of nodes official operator dropping nines.
The gene, the gene wilder meme where it's just like, I heard you dropped a juice.
I dropped a nine.
Dropped a nine.
Yeah.
Last night.
Or, you know, you could have like the, uh, the inverse shirt to that and like stack
and nines for a good balance.
Yeah.
All the good networks stack and nines.
Oh man.
I was just trying to, uh, look up the note, uh, the note.
No pixels.
The which one?
The no pixels.
You know the, it's in the notes.
You suffer fucking rude.
I mean, no, that's right.
No pixels.io.
Um, oh, partial match was also asking about the uni thing.
Yeah.
We have some fucking jerk off.
I really aggressively auto compounding on uni again.
And because we tell all the validators to not auto compound or compound, cause it's just
much easier to manage.
Um, everybody only has like 9,000 steak or something like that.
So it's really easy for one mad person to like completely unbalance the set.
And so, um, yeah, I don't know.
Maybe we're just going to do an upgrade prop on, on uni now where I just nuked this wallet.
So we can, we can also just, I've sent them some messages with a memo field that goes
dude, like honestly, stop running a compound script.
Like I feel like I've worn them.
I called them out on Twitter.
I've docked their wallet and I've also privately send them a note in the memo field.
Um, and I'm kind of at this point, like maybe we just removed them from the network.
So just, um, I wonder, I wonder if they actually have like the requisite wallet on the, on the
Juno mainnet because they're obviously a airdrop wallet, right?
I wonder if they still hold it.
I noted that also degenerate shit with their seed phrase to be able to do that.
Um, compounding.
Well, no, they're actually manual compounding because it's only happening sporadically.
Wait, they're manual compounding on uni.
Why?
Like once a day.
Oh yeah.
Six hours ago, 14, 15 hours ago, a day ago.
Yeah, I think it is manual.
Actually, you're right.
That's fucking crazy.
I've just, I've just even bought back for the last before, you know, they started off with,
I looked in the Genesis file, they, they, they started with a non-trivial amount of Juno, like 11,000.
Why were they in the Genesis free for uni?
They're in a Genesis.
So Genesis is the mainnet Genesis.
Yeah.
Oh, it is.
Oh, okay.
Genesis for uni is a pretty heavily modified version of the original Juno Genesis.
I gotcha.
So, so this person may or may not know that this is not worth anything.
I don't know.
Like who doesn't know the uni is not real.
The clue is that the network goes down every once in a while and you lose all your money.
Like this person has already lost all their money.
They, they, they, you know, they test net Juno when uni for wrap three, whichever the one last one was uni three wrapped up.
Right.
We brought up a new network and they immediately just started recombining again, given that their compounding was also the final nail in the coffin for uni three.
Because they, their wallet had, without any of us noticing had gotten so big that they were just swaying who was number one in the set and the top value.
98% of the fucking steak.
Yeah.
So much power that the network was barely able to make blocks like that was the problem.
Just, just like the address.
Todd, I tweeted the address so you can go on my Twitter.
Todd, I think this is it.
I'm pretty sure.
So they do, they have a main net address and they delegate six to know to me.
Thank you.
I hate your shit on uni five.
I'm going to go back and delete my tweet.
You are great.
You're a great member of the community.
Thank you.
You've got very good days to validate.
So it's you.
Is that what you're saying?
Is this you?
It was an inside job.
So to counteract, to counteract the, the compounder of aggressively started compounding.
That might be the only solution here, right?
So I'm trying to out compound them.
And then, but I only delegate like it picks from the random bottom three.
So all people who newly enter the network get steak as well.
So just random picks one three and stakes to them every five minutes.
And then every, every time I read stakes, it just picks one from the bottom three.
So yeah, thanks Mercury for the script.
But I'm hoping that I can just in a couple of weeks, just out delegate them.
So if anyone's got spare tokens and they, they want to, to help us like restore the sanctity of uni five, just throw them into my wallet so I can out delegate this guy.
And this is, and this is, this is active, right?
Because I think they were deli with somebody else.
It was dispersed, right?
Or somebody, and then we asked them to move their commission out commission to 100%.
And then they moved it.
Yeah. They got the 80% and then they moved it. Yeah.
So, so clearly, clearly they're watching.
It's, I think there's the element here where we might be getting trolled.
I think so.
It's wherever this is.
These coins are worth nothing.
It's just clear.
It's clear to be sure it's you or somebody.
No value here.
It's someone we know.
It's just somebody who's seen, who's seen the bags under our eyes and just got like, I think I know.
I think I know what would be funny.
I think I know what these lads need.
I think I can increase the size of them bags.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Not the kind of bags that we need, but the kind of bags under their eyes.
The, they're not the bags we need, but they the bags we got.
That's a slightly more cryptic t-shirt than the drop in nines t-shirt.
But it's a good t-shirt.
I really want that t-shirt now.
I would wear that t-shirt.
Yeah.
Or maybe like a one-end.
We're getting two into merchant.
Let's not worry about the merchant.
They're dropping nines t-shirt.
You know what interested in the stacking nines?
Stacking or dropping?
I'm not stacking nines.
Stacking.
I don't think it's possible to stack nines.
You start.
It's kind of like a deer hunter thing, right?
It's only down from here.
You start at 100.
It's only down.
You start at 100 and you start dropping.
You never stack.
That's how statistics work.
It's a deer hunter.
It depends on if you're operating in a window or infinity.
Good point.
I guess as somebody who is, I guess, always worried about their own mortality, I'm always
thinking about the line decreasing to zero.
Yeah.
You're only concerned with your long-term nine?
Yeah.
How many lines?
It was the Life for Flight Club.
Yeah.
On a long enough time, time scale, all of our nines decreased to zero.
Yeah.
Maybe we could do a slightly more cryptic shirt and actually just have a meme of a guy
with a massive bag, or just take a picture of me, and then have Cosmos Validator dropping
nines.
It could mean that we're shit validators, or it could just mean that we're losing our
lifespan because of validating.
We're dropping nines on our lifespan.
I would say it's a thin line.
It's a thin line.
It's a thin line between two to all those things.
So on Validator stuff, we've kind of covered it a little bit with the Chihuahua and the
Jack or Shenanigans, which has really been lost in the last couple of days.
Is there anything really noticeable the rest of this week?
I just feel like the load's coming.
Defund test nets like collecting GenTex in the next day?
Or two.
Right, so yeah.
Defund good project.
Nice guys.
Yeah.
Nice guys.
So we're going to do a nice test net for validators and users.
So expect there to be 3,000 validators smashing the shit out of a, what are they called those
things for?
Falsit.
Yeah, the Jack will launch, which was today-ish.
Disgusting.
Or still ongoing.
Yeah.
Ongoing.
I'm really interested in the etymology of Falsit because it's just not a word here.
Tap.
It must be an old English word.
Tap.
Yeah, tap.
Tap.
Oh, really?
I know what it is, but we just call it tap.
Oh, yeah.
Well, it is Falsit from the day.
Is it?
So that is the old and term.
Yeah.
I'm surprised that you guys haven't maintained it.
You seem to be into your old words.
Breathe them.
Yeah, it's kind of a business in that, isn't it?
It might be more of a Yankee origin.
The Falsit.
Yeah, I think it's an American thing.
Is it?
It feels like an Americanism.
I'm looking up right now.
Yeah.
Jack will launch has been delayed until tomorrow.
Yeah.
The relaunch to be, to be out.
We launched and things were running and now we want to relaunch.
Yeah.
I launched things were running.
Now we need to relaunch with a new Genesis.
Okay.
Hey, at least, at least, you know, before the IBC connections went up,
no harm, no foul.
That's my policy.
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's not a good look, but yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, but that's not like, you can still have transactions of value
before IBC.
Like you might do OTC to someone and then have that reversed by a new.
It was pretty quick after launch.
So, but yeah, I agree.
Oh, there's, there's been some, I noticed there was also some stuff on,
on Juno's Commonwealth, which like there is a little element where,
especially it's like the, there's, there's an element where the,
I feel like Osmo in particular, and do you know the two places where,
other than maybe the hub, the spiciest Commonwealth or Gov props kind of
originate from those three chains.
So we are like, Juno is one of the biggest Commonwealth's.
It doesn't surprise me.
Yeah.
But the, the, the, the two ones that have come up in the last few days are
the, the slash based on.
Slash voting power.
Slash DP based on like votes.
And then the Nakamoto one, which I don't know if Rama's still in the chat,
but I think uses Rama's data, right?
It does.
Yeah.
He made that spreadsheet.
Made that spreadsheet.
So very briefly, the Nakamoto one is a proposal to look into a mechanism that
would mean that validators, so it's stakers staking to validators,
lower down in the set would get a increased return on that stake.
Yeah.
So like, so like, let's say the index starts at one and then progresses all the way
down to validator 150 where you would get 1.1.
Is that, is that what that is?
Is that a return on staking?
Like it's a mint structure that's changing.
It changes the distribution of the mint.
Yeah.
Versus controlling versus.
So that's the opposite of trying to control the maximum amount of validator
stakes.
So you're, yeah.
So basically like if you, you know, you will get more APR if you take a higher
risk to go to lower validators, I guess.
No, no, not, not, not unexpectedly the top validators are not for it.
I love, I love that the game of notes crews were still on the case of the
tap versus faucet structure.
Wow.
So basically in the chat for those listening on the podcast,
So his studio has said tap is older than faucet.
Faucet is French from 1400s and tap is German from the 10 hundreds.
There you go.
So what?
Bullshit.
That's bullshit though.
They didn't have a tap in the 10 hundreds.
Nope.
There's no running water to the 10 hundreds.
What are you talking about?
That's just a stream.
What do you think water buses, people have had wooden taps like it.
And since when?
They had to put them in the kegs.
If you never tap the tap to nail barrel, like it's you, you put in the
bung and then you have a pressure.
All right.
That's the pressure valve.
Different use of it versus like running water that's coming from a stream or
something else.
I'm opening a tap.
Corrections.
Soy two says that it was his spreadsheet, not Rama's.
There you go.
All the OG is in the chat.
This is the thing like that's beer.
The real balance of power in the cosmos.
It's hard as shit posting is, I mean, this kind of seems like we should just
put soy two and Rama in a cage fight.
It's random.
It's the only way to sort that out.
Getting points from the pressure measures, getting coins from the tap would sound weird.
There was like a weird function in the Ruby programming language called tap as well, which
used to confuse me.
I think it was basically like an applicative functor.
Was it like a math?
Somebody would better CS theory will correct me on this, but it was like, from memory,
it was like, you know, when you do a map over a set of things, let's say you have an array,
and you do a map and you do one thing to each thing in the array.
It was like that, but you could also inject essentially like a kind of additional context
to the thing that you were then operating on.
That's called tap, which I think is basically the definition of an applicative functor,
but it's late and I would need to double check my category theory on that one.
But yeah, that's the only other factor on taps.
That is that there was a quite non-standard function that did something vaguely useful
in the Ruby standard library.
Wow.
Are you going to go through this?
Holy shit, this is a long proposal.
The slashing of the voting power, the gist of it.
Yeah, so the Nakamoto coefficient one to end on that one.
I think originally the discussion around this had been to put in a anti-handler.
So if somebody was already over 5%, it would just not let you state to them,
which I think is a relatively elegant solution is just go, okay, no, you can't state to that value.
They've got too much voting power already.
But yeah, so anyway, the discussion's moved on.
This is now it's up.
So I don't know.
Let us know what you think of that in the chat.
I don't think there's much to say about it because it is relatively straightforward,
but I think it's an interesting question.
I think the interesting thing is that top validators think that they're getting punished.
It's just to, it's not punishing anyone.
It's trying to bloody distribute the stake.
You're going to feel punished, but that's not the point of it.
The point is to distribute the stake more evenly.
Yeah, I think the point is you can't.
The reason I like the anti-handler solution is you should just stop accruing additional
stake to the people at the top immediately and just basically mean that those transactions
get dropped from the mempool.
That's what they don't even hit the mempool.
They get filtered by the anti-handler.
That's, I can still, but it's controversial obviously because there's lots of people.
Hey, can we filter transactions by an address?
In the anti-handler?
Yes.
Yeah.
Fuck yeah.
Well, hang on, we can just do that in uni, can't we?
Yeah.
What is a comfortable Nakamoto-ko number?
Is that eight?
Is it 10?
One.
It's each classic seven, isn't it really?
Seven or eight, right?
That means that's 4%.
That should be, so basically that's-
Seven was decidedly average, wasn't it?
I literally just said seven, I don't know what you're talking about.
How many validators, how many valid, what's the Nakamoto coefficient for-
Which is how many validators make up-
How many validators should make up 33%, 33 and a third?
Like that should be-
It should be 33, shouldn't it?
Well, that's everybody at 1%, which I think is pretty unrealistic.
But is actually how decentralization would look?
Is it though?
That's-
Yes.
Is decentralization everybody at one?
I don't think that's right though.
It's even an even valet set, yes.
But that doesn't necessarily-
Yeah, but that doesn't really properly give incentives and everything else that would be out there, right?
Like that doesn't-
Well, I mean, it's like what-
So ideally, right, you would want it to be-
You could have it be above one, but you would-
It's kind of back to the T-grade stuff we were talking about back in the day,
where you want to put a curve on it so that you can go above one,
but it's a diminishing return on additional stake above one,
so that validators are not going to get hugely out of whack
as long as voting power is related to that.
But then you just have to make sure that 1% is economically viable, right?
That's the problem.
And that's the problem at the moment, which is why people want more than that.
So I'm looking at changes that have been around longer.
So Solana-
I always go back to Solana Beach because it's a good understanding of
like changes have been slightly longer,
there's a little bit more TBL and everything else.
So they're not going to vote as 30.
Their highest validator has 2.67, which is Coinbase,
which, you know, Coinbase is going to Coinbase.
And then the lowest on that.