in uh you have to go do your exam basically in a another country where it's allowed to do it I think something
like that which I presume means Scotland I don't really know [Music]
[Music]
hello welcome to game of nodes a weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent violated teams with a little
uh I don't know how I didn't spot exactly when you rugged me there so uh presumably a little little bit of an
anti-monarchist diatribe there involving um medical exams being rescheduled so I
read about in this week's private eye which is if you are British a magazine you should subscribe to
um so yes uh you know I was reading all about it in private eye reading about all of the uh the costs associated with
the uh with the Royal burial whatever it's called and um is that what it's called
[ __ ] hit gas really um they did they did exactly the same thing
here they just rugged us with a [ __ ] public holiday and they put it on a Thursday so everyone took off Friday as well so everything's [ __ ] oh Larry is
here he's showed up all right [Laughter]
in the nick of time uh right
hide the KFC bag foreign welcome Larry so I was at the other two
were just like I you've not seen the link have you you [ __ ] up something this is this is this is on you I was
like I'm pretty sure I was actually organized this time squared away things ahead
ahead of time or perfection um welcome to the show yeah welcome
sorry you missed the pre-show [ __ ] talk and chit chat
um but yeah so uh pulling us out of the fire of having to come up with a a new
topic on the fly so thanks very much for actually for actually coming um it's not very difficult for us to
eventually just end up talking for two hours anyway oh yeah might have do you
have sketchy internet Larry no looks good no I think it might be you in kangaroo Town yeah probably I mean
Melbourne and I've got a I've got to uh tether to my phone because
the internet here doesn't seem to work so thanks partner you've got [ __ ] internet what you're telling us is that
when you were in the actual Outback you could do the podcast from a heart in the middle of nowhere
yeah exaggeration by the way to listeners of the podcast this is we have reasonably good geographical
understanding without doc signal of where he is at any given time he he has a tracking beacon on him the rest of the
game that knows team will just follow him we just see it on a world map which bit of Australia he's in um so he was if you've ever seen the
film Crocodile Dundee basically null has been on walkabout which is it's obviously a completely factual thing to
happen in Australia uh so but okay this is getting a bit racist but anyway last
week I was literally in the middle of [ __ ] nowhere in a caravan and uh it's good internet I had great
Internet thanks Elon um I've got the the starlink hanging off the side of my Caravan and um yeah like
you know I'm sitting on 250 megabits up and down and now I'm in Melbourne
in uh you know in the city and the [ __ ] internet doesn't work I'm on my I'm tethering off my mobile so
it's it's a little bit in and out devastating stuff so um we obviously a
validate podcast and I get that you you at the other the other two of you on the panel today are going to be like why'd
you keep inviting Cosmos and devs come on talk but Larry does validate
osmo right so we we are we are well within the remit of of a validator
podcast on this guest choice so um well maybe we'll maybe we can talk we can talk some validation stuff later
um but so for those of you that don't know uh Larry does a load of stuff
um actually to be fair where do you start like obviously you've got kind of so what's your involvement with idelfi and
stuff like that you work for them are you like um just a contributor and stuff because you also you run a validator do a bunch
of Cosmos and stuff you've just launched uh an nft uh poapp style project on
stargaze which you know obviously usurper helps out with Stargate is very interested and involved in that project as well so I don't know usurper you
might already know more about that than I do I only saw it with the gov prop the other day and was like oh isn't that
Larry's thick and then I was read it and was like okay I really need to pay more attention um but good timing to be coming on the
show having just essentially put up a new project on stargaze which was very exciting so
um yeah it'd probably rather me go down your CV and ask you about each individual thing Larry do you want to
just uh introduce yourself and like what you work on and how you spend your time
uh yeah sure so thanks thanks for having me uh so I'm commonly referred to as Larry
engineer which is obviously not you know the real name but this is what I go with
um so I'm currently working primarily at
Delphi or stealthy not Delphi actually but even even our Founders pronounce it
wrong so I I kind of assumed it was a pun because like obviously the Greek would be like Delphi I guess but I
assumed it was like Delphi but like Delphi but like defy yeah yeah that's what I thought but
but it turns out it just Americans they don't they don't know that is that is literally how I would pronounce it is
Delphi
where the oracles were isn't it it's like the it's the in Greek mythology it's the Delphi is like you click
there's all sorts of gods it was good gods and demigods they climb up there to get like uh you know they they just got
told something Horrible's gonna happen to them don't they by the Oracle yeah yeah right so so where was that um
so I I'm technically a contractor to Delphi so they hire me to do engineering
works and I do engineering work for them um and my primary project here is
contributing to Mars protocol is a lending protocol if you if you're new here we we launched
on Terra classic back in March and it went pretty pretty
well we had 200 million dollar worth of pvl and and until it everything crashed and
you know right uh so obviously we're not we're not going to give up everything
we've built so we're taking this as a change as an opportunity to
basically re-imagine how we can build this protocol based on our experience on
Terra classic and everything they've learned about the most these recent new Cosmos
Technologies how we can combine these these experiences and uh
build something new more exciting and we we came up with this new what we call
Outpost architecture um I guess I shouldn't
like distract I guess this is a validator podcast not a D5 podcast but
um if you're interested definitely tune in to our presentation at Cosmos this is
a everything podcast right all right okay now let's begin to defy he's a massive DJ
yeah yeah so so Mars Fogo is my primary thing I also run validators on osmosis
and Stargate Club I run out of there if I want to if I
really like a project and I want to contribute to it and validating is just one way for me to contribute other than
building stuff on on top of the project um and I can make some money so why not
yeah so besides I had a personal side project a fun project it's a it's called
badges so there are some historical context in this I I initially launched
badges initially called Terra trophies so trophies I've seen you know
PlayStation trophies game video game achievements right as a project on Terra classic so you use
called Terra Trophies i i launched it right before the last Cosmo verse here
in Lisbon so about a year ago so at the time
nobody knew who I am so I went to customers I tried to try to tell people hey I have this QR
code in it you dropped you scan it go away go away so nobody knew me and I'm
not good at Business Development so nobody knew about that project it went nowhere and and then Tara collapse I kind of
forget forgot about it um so recently
I met a few other people who wants to drop nfts and then I remembered hey I
had this thing back last year so uh I just revived the project and uh
upgraded causal Muslim to the latest version added some new features and deployed it on Stargate so yeah that
is the story so it's pretty exciting oh so obviously
um stargazer's permission so presumably at some point you uh how did you did you go purely through the community route or
did you talk to uh like or we've obviously had what we obviously know Jorge and Shane and stuff we've had both
Jorge and chain on the show I'll add me out as well I guess so we've had all of them on one time or another like what
was the process like for getting that project deployed on stargaze
about well for my case I already know the stargaze team so we're already friends
so we we talked about it um
we we revealed the code we had a session where we just go through the code
um and then I just went ahead and make the on-chain proposal everybody vote
that's pretty straightforward yeah at the same time I also did a few
PR to CW nfts and stargate's repo because I I don't like their code
yeah yeah I think we've been I I think I saw some of your comments on cwnfts because
there's a an ongoing discussion about design in on
a number of different angles I think for some of the uh the the
well a lot of the CW um sort of boilerplate repos if you like um
there's I don't know well I'm quite interested what you think actually about this but
it's I think the the it's kind of interesting where they've got to and like the adoption they've got to I think
I'm surprised somebody that I worked with the other day by pointing out that most of that is actually on audited code and they'd assumed that it was you know
audited and very canonical and I was sort of like no it's just that they're all just examples I mean they're
production ready because they are in production people have used them they've had a lot of eyes on them a lot of people have thought about them but most
of the Marano audited at this point and I'm also not convinced that every single
one of them is that idiomatic in terms of rust it's certainly not that idiomatic in terms of rust as an ml
family language with like pervasive immutability and a lot of those kind of Concepts so it's but
they're so they're already quite solidified You know despite them all being basically Alpha software they're
all still quite solidified I think in the minds of the maintainers and as a maintainer I'm also just like oh well
let's be careful about changing it even if there's some bits that I you know I'm not 100 on so I don't know
it's quite interesting to think about what how what we might do differently I think on a lot of those uh a lot of
those contracts that are now so widely used you know because a lot of people now depend on them in production right
yeah yeah so I'm a fan of object oriented programming so I personally like the way it is but I
I do have friends who are like functional guys who absolutely hate it
so I can definitely see both sides um my opinion is that the cw721 base
should be absolutely minimal so So currently there are some proposals to
introduce some extra features such as um you know the collection level metadata I
think it's I'm not I'm not a big fan of it to be honest
I think it should be cw271 base should be really minimal so if if I'm a product I'm running a
project I do want to introduce the collection level metadata I can do it
myself but if I do not want it I don't think the base contract should force
that onto me right so that's just my opinion because it well because I guess there's
two things there on there it's like it I think it it's not immediately obvious when you look at that code base that the
the thing that makes it well the thing it is like the type of CW 721 is like the enum basically the Json
part the interface bit and then yeah like how you actually go about
implementing that is maybe a separate thing and like you say you can kind of implement your own extensions to it
quite easily as long as you keep that base That Base bit
um yeah yeah so so in fact if you look at my
contribution to the sg721 uh design so it basically uses
and pretty typical object oriented inheritance pattern
and I think it's pretty elegant way of extending contracts
yeah I've I think I've I've seen that and it it is clever but I yeah I I think
we've talked about this online that I'm kind of the functional programming um yeah extreme I think if I
why the way I would be interested in seeing an implant if I had the time I would do this is actually refactor it
into a example contract so like you can see how it's used and actually make
what's currently contract functionality just a library like a package so you'd
have like base package blah blah package blah blah package like the various extensions I mean just decide mix and
match the functions you want to make up an enum with the right signature and then the contract is basically just an
enum where you say look I am telling you that I I am this this enum which again
would be in a package because obviously so you just you just
say okay well I you can tell from my interface the the contract I'm going to
give you as somebody trying to communicate with me this is my contract but how you implement that so long as
you return the right thing is completely up to you and you can mix and match which functions you want so that the end
result is probably a a contract that's basically one an exam contract is basically just like one
match statement for the three entry points just saying um call S call base execute blah base
execute blah bass execute blah and that would be it
um but you know I don't I don't hate how bass is currently implemented like I get
if you like traits and you like essentially having static objects that you know that is fine I spend a lot of
time with Ruby and rails and you know static objects also very very common in that Paradigm too I just think
I'm not really smart enough for object oriented code do you know what I mean
um I feel like it closes over a lot of functionality and state Within These objects and then I have to like be like
oh what's this thing what's this thing and like I just feel like I'm probably just not smart enough for oh okay that's
kind of my my general takeaway from doing this for 10 years yeah
so Larry I'm back to badges real quick so that's totally permissionless to be able to create a badge right so anybody can mint a bad set is that right
yeah it's totally permissionless so so the way it works is that
um So So currently if you have a collection of nft it's a separate contract so like
right bad kids nft that's a contract sure uh Stargates punks that's that's a
contract the way badges works is there's just one nft contract for for all the
collections so if I create a badge that is called batch number one
that that is a sub-collection of nft contracts and someone else can come and permission
as they create their own badge and that would be patch number two and they will live in the same nft contract that they
will have different metadata and different uh rule sets of this rule set includes very good nft is transferable
um what are the rules by which the nft can be minted right okay they have different mint rules for different use
cases okay so so I'm not creating a collection of badges I'm creating a badge right and
then as an owner do I have the ability to distribute those like or is it or is
it more contract based where you can make it like more smart contract based based on certain criteria or how do
those things get distributed or at or you know how does somebody pick up a patch or how do I give somebody a badge so you're if you're a Creator
um what you need to have is you have you need to prepare the metadata including the name description image URL
Etc yeah and you upload those things on chain you need to Define that a few things such as whether this NF this
patch is transferable whether it has a max Supply whether it can whether there
is a deadline for fermenting so for this kind of data and the most important
thing is you need to define a rule on how this batch can be minted so there are three options currently implemented
one is called an airdrop that's the easiest so if you already have collected a list of addresses of recipients who
whom you want to meet this badge to you can just tell the contract these are 500
people just mean 500 bash to to them so that's an airdrop the second way is
called using a single use uh a multiple use key so
so you will generate a private key off chain and you will upload the pub the
corresponding public key on chain so the contract will have the public key
and then you can distribute that that private key of cane to for example
you're hosting an event you can print that print out that priority key
as a QR code and everybody can use scan and with that private key they can go
ahead and means a badge okay so I think that's pretty pretty suitable for off-chain events right so you have a
chance right yeah so the third approach is similar but uh a badge can have
multiple private Keys each can only be used once so this is actually what we plan to do
at cosmobile so when you're checking and cost movers you will be given a little piece of paper with a QR code on it and
you can just scan it and mint your exclusive customer verse patch
that's awesome and where can I view those is that only on the stargaze app or where where will that end up or will that show up maybe in Kepler at some
point or what do you think that's gonna where should I be able to view those so they will be minted to your stargaze
address yeah I'm not quite sure well so so stargate's team is working on
integrating it in the in their Marketplace I'm not sure how soon they will finish it yeah I haven't worked with
Kepler yet so they have to put in some work to support it so
right yeah so I don't I don't know maybe maybe you will be
able to see it in in stargaze Marketplace depending on how fast they get it done
that's cool I like I I mean it's nft ish but I like the distribution especially
options two and three there where that's you know kind of taking the wallet aspect of it and being able to
distribute the private key as a QR and those types of things that's pretty awesome yeah that that idea actually came from
uh Dave from osmosis oh yeah yeah it's really nice like that's that's only where to be able to have an event or
maybe like we drop one in here or something else for some episode drop or something else or I
want to and then is there any there's no so since it's permissionless any image
can I can I burn a badge that's been assigned to me so if somebody creates a giant douche badge and then drops it to
my address and they go to the stargaze page and it's a bad I burn my own
yes okay [Music] all right yeah okay good that's why I know so quiet
that's what he's doing right now he's checking right now it's actually really hard for me to um participate in this
conversation because I've got a bad connection to Larry so whenever he's talking a lot of the time I can't hear
what he's saying so I'm just sitting here with no [ __ ] idea what's going on
and I was actually just fixing a secret um node as well to be honest to be honest doing the same thing except I
have perfect video and audio so that's really cool yeah so I'm actually gonna uh like just turn my camera off and so
yeah looking at my ass and I'm just gonna uh see if I can mend the internet I'll be back that's cool so there that's
that's currently that stargaze proposal is 52 and 53 that end tomorrow
um around midnight Eastern or a little bit before that I think so those look like they're right now
they both met Quorum and they're both very positive I assume did the then did you I saw that you also posted some ways
for people to inspect the contracts and other types of things if they wanted to which is really cool yeah I mean the contract has been open
source things right so right anybody can look at it
that's awesome nice I feel like I feel like I might have even seen that some previous
previous point it's hard to say uh there's definitely a point when especially around last Christmas when
they were still so few cause and wasm developers maybe outside Terror at least that it's like have I seen that repo
before pretty sure I've seen that Reaper before um so uh one of the other questions I had
uh Larry was like I you posted some interest this was actually one of the things that I was most interested maybe
in getting you on uh to talk about originally when we first when I first was like do you want to come on the show
um was you posted some stuff about how essentially your thesis on what the
dividing line is between like decentralized applications that are built on cosmoasm and like app chains
and like what the sliding scale is between those right because you're you're yeah it's fair to say is it that
you're relatively involved with osmosis in that you know you've got a validator there you believe in the project
um that sort of thing and yet sort of like you know uh Mars is gonna be its
own chain right but there's going to be uh like outposts on other chains is that how I got that correct
yeah so Mars will be will have a chain but the actual lending protocol is not
on that chain the actual lending protocol will be deployed as outposts which are awesome smart contracts on
each chain so is this some of the because you again I've seen you posting on Twitter some information about like
experimenting with ICA and that sort of stuff is that underpinning that functionality right
uh right so governance will be on the app chain
uh but the lending Market will be on osmosis Etc so there has to be a way for the
governance module on the app chain to control the Outpost contracts
so that is what that I see ice saying is about right so is there an interaction
between um so the but the Nate the governance module is just using the app chains
native tokens for for staking and that sort of thing right yeah so what's the
what's the imagined utility of the tokens on the app chain or is it just
simply that they're they need to be used because on the other Chains It's that IBC genome that will be used to do
operations so you're asking about the Mars token or
yeah so like if you so I guess I'm asking like you know if you have a standalone app chain but a lot of your functionality is actually taking place
on other chains like what does that mean for the utility of the underlying token like what what are people are going to
use it for and how does that interaction like work what what kind of mechanisms are happening I'm just kind of like I
guess yeah both technically architecturally and economically it's quite it's quite an interesting use case given how early we
are in like ICA and all that sort of stuff so I'm kind of interested how that kind of all thrashes out
yeah so I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say at this point uh that
a lot of things will be unveiled at Cosmos so damn sorry so we're basically
like a week too early to get all the gcd yeah I can talk a few things about how it
worked on para classic and that that can like maybe can give you some expectations of what you can see sure so
on para classic um we didn't have a nap chain obviously we have everything implemented as smart
contracts on para classic we have our token as a cw20 we have our governance
as a contract as well so so this is how the token worked on Terra
classic so our idea is that you can stake your Mars token and that
will grant you a share of the protocol Revenue right but
and governance power in the protocol but I think but we believe that token
holders should have more ski in the game so they they could they shouldn't be just like buy a bunch of tokens in the
market they stake it and make a really bad governance proposal screw up the whole thing and just just leave right we
cannot let that happen so in in order for the token holders to have more ski
in the game and incentivize them to make more responsible governance decisions the idea is all this all stake
tomorrow's tokens in case there is a so-called shortfall
event meaning the protocol became becomes insolvent there are more more
debt than assets there's a shortfall in other words the
a portion of the state tomorrow's token can be auctioned off in that case to
cover the shortfall so if the if the token holders vote to
to list a very um risky asset like this the stable coin
and the stable coin D packs for example and we lose a bunch of money the protocol
doesn't have enough assets to cover all the other all the all the debts obligations it owes to the users
um these Mars token stakers will lose a portion of their assets
to cover the shortfall and they will take the hit so we believe this will incentivize these
smart token holders to be more responsible in making these confidence decisions
uh we still really like the idea so there are a lot of complications applying this to an app chain model
for example now if you if if Mars token is the proof
of stake staking token you can't just auction it off because that will risk
your chains security so it has to work a different way but but
it's the idea it doesn't change that token holders should have a more have more ski
in the game so that they they're more responsible than in governance
so what motivated the decision to move from sort of like decentralized application running on one chain to
being uh like an app chain plus Outpost model
um because it's quite a big architectural change as well just you know from the from the difference between those two things right
right so so we all have IBC but but the truth is
composing smart contracts on different chains is still quite challenging
especially when it comes to time sensitive tasks such as
liquidations so if you have some portion of your protocol on one
chain some portions of your protocol on a different chain and you need to liquidate some users on one chain and
that involves multiple rounds of cross-stream communications that's that's uh
that's very complex and if if if let's say IBC channels gets
congested that could lead to massive loss in in value right so
so we believe at this point at this stage a lending protocol is still better to be
deployed locally on each chamber where it is used so if they are borrowing demands on
osmosis we will deploy Auto contracts there if there are
borrowing demands on Juno we may consider deploying one there etc etc
uh so this is in contrary to what Umi does where they have one app chain
where the lending Market is and everybody who wants to borrow needs to IBC their assets to Umi chain borrow
their and IBC their borrowed assets out right so these are two contrary models
so I think at least in the short term I think our protocol will be more
composable and we'll see more usage we think
in the long term it's hard to say it really depends on how IBC evolves but
probably the difference will be smaller but let's see
so the the app chain is more is I forgive you if I misunderstood but it's
more of a kind of uh things are locally where they should be in terms of like whatever assets are
being deployed but then the app chain itself is there for operations that aren't time sensitive or anything that
you want to Route specifically through that chain presumably uh I can think of use cases for that but I don't know if
that's the reason right so the the action in summary it will be it will be the governance Hub
that controls like parameters of each Outpost uh stakers will collect political
revenue on on the app chain um
in the future we may think of something similar to what we did on Terra classic that kind of tokenomics
for the majority of the functionality is actually happening elsewhere right right so there are some possible use cases for
other use cases for the app chain such as what I'm thinking right now is something like a chrome job scheduler
so if you want something to be automatically executed once every hour
that can be scheduled on on the app chain using the begin and blocker feature and
it can use some interchange account or some other mechanisms to execute those tasks
um that's one one thing the The Hub can put uh we call it the half the Mars Hub something that the Hub can potentially
do um I'm also pretty ambitious that in that I
think Mars Hub can be an interchange security hub but maybe they can
take some job from Cosmos Hub so is it is it is the kind of substrate of that
chain is it is it based on um you know just like a wasm d
implementation or is it based on sort of Osmosis is because osmosis is yzm D
um the way they have it configured and stuff is quite different from how Juno uses ysmd which is closer to a reference
implementation um and then obviously as t-grade which is a chain that uses tiwasm which is a
further a third version of of wasm D with additional functionality let's say
so um out of those sort of three implementations or some other one like which one is Mars
closer to I mean if that's a thing that you can even talk about I don't know I think it's closer to to journal except
for his permissions right so similar to Star games and Junior then yeah we customized very
little things um we customize the governance module we have a different
Logic for Italian governance modes uh
but other than that most of the things are just vanilla
default wasn't these have right okay so uh
and again I guess out of curiosity you presumably did some of the the go work around the SDK yourself right as part of
that team um what did you uh do you prefer working on Smart contract stuff or do you prefer
working on like the SDK stuff but
I I I like both
but I think they're different I think I I I find fun in different kinds of fun
in in both of them
so the working with Goal SDK code you have access to
much lower level staff
and with that you can achieve a lot of stuff that aren't easily achievable this
wasn't and that's pretty exciting to me yeah well I mean but then you could I
guess there is an option to potentially look into like tiwasm type stuff because then you can you know use Smart contract
type bindings in you know beginner name blockers and that kind of stuff which I guess it I
suppose it depends again how deep you need to go right yeah yeah
um yeah so for us in the future as mentioned we we probably have to we
probably are going to do some pretty in-depth modification to the staking and governance modules
to implement our tokenomic stuff so that will have to be done in goal
right if you want Customs taking custom governance
sure um so in uh yeah on the on the validator side of
things like you're you're only validating uh osmo and stargaze right at the moment do you know of any other
do you have any other projects that you're looking at validating yeah so
quite a few few ones I'm a big fan of say
I don't know if I'm going to validate it because their validator has very high
requirements on like Hardware stacks and latency connectivity
my validator is just a home computer right there I'm not sure you think it will satisfy the requirements so I don't
know maybe I'll give it a try but if I'm missing 30 of the blocks I would
probably give the spot to someone else
yes say requirements are a bit of a we've talked about a little bit before there's short block times there and
there and even right now there's not a ton of transactions so we'll see how that does after the transaction load
goes up and and whatever else but yeah we we miss a decent amount too I think we're just looking like we missed 40 day
or something like that which is 40th that's pretty nice yeah it's actually
pretty it's decent on the same network but it's um like we have some dedicated Hardware to it that we would not do anywhere else
but it's even a test net but yeah yeah um I'm big fan of the last year yeah
[Music] I think penumbra and milma are quite interesting as well
um yeah penumbra is very very cool not sure not sure like
how yeah don't know about the number is very very cool but I don't know we're number
one like we obviously haven't been super involved in test Nets so I don't know if we would be eligible to validate if we jumped into the stage anyway but also
it's one of those where it feels like maybe you're painting a bit of a Target on your back by validating it do you
know what I mean it's like uh you know it's like a privacy protocol to begin with so you're sort of like well
uh if you want to if you wanna if you want a peaceful life this might not be the one to validate
well I I'm not living in the U.S so
that's a great thing
yeah I know other like America america-based validators this seems to
be much more nervous about regulation related stuff when I do
it's true yeah yeah it's still very boys we boys here but that will that will change at some
point I suppose um so out of curiosity like you because
obviously you've said that you're obviously working uh in the terror space last Cosmo verse which was like a year
ago but like how long have you been working in crypto and like what was your what was your in
yeah so I'm relatively new here
I I think I bought my first Bitcoin in April 2020 so that was right after
the March crash so about East at about two hundred
dollars so that was a really good deal but I was
that was pure luck so I didn't even know there was a March crash I did not even know we were in the
bottom I didn't even know I just just just bought something it panned out okay I didn't think about it so
so I I came from a science background I I spent nine years trying to get a
biochem about four years in undergrad five years in grad school trying to get a PhD in biochem and got it developed
for a job in the big Pharma Pfizer Merc
those companies um they went nowhere like
research not not giving results
like child perspective child perspective was really bad it doesn't look like I would find a job
and there's the immigration issue so like
America's immigration policies is not very favorable sometimes you
it takes up to a decade for you to get a permanent residency and you just have to
continuously renew your one-year visas through all those years and there's no certainty in your life like you can't
buy real estate because if you buy you buy a house and they cancel your visa
and your school so so that that that's kind of the low point
of my life where I wasted almost a decade in science research not going anywhere I'm not
going to get a job like even if I got a job I have up to a
decade of uncertainty in life yeah so I just decided at a point I'm
just gonna quit um the crypto I bought at the bottom is
doing pretty well I'm just gonna full-time crypto
yeah nice so so you're you're potentially the
biggest e-journ here then just aped into it big time I mean you
wouldn't be the first time that someone has wasted a decade I've definitely wasted a decade if I can tell you
Surfers wasted a decade just by looking at you
um we've already talked about your Crocodile Dundee past now everybody knows about that right the phrase wasted
a decade watching [ __ ] movies [Laughter] only watching good movies man watching
the best um so uh Larry I might have actually
missed earlier on so I'm getting much better connectivity now by the way I can hear everything you're saying in your
videos not dropping out at all um but I was curious uh like where do you hail what's your what's your country
that you live in if that's not uh too toxic I'm originally from China
um in Portugal right now oh you're in Portugal all right that's cool
um I think uh well that's actually not too bad a place to be in terms of being able to you know interact with the the crypto
Community particularly it's not so far away when you want to fly anywhere
um certainly it's a problem for us when well it's a problem for me if I want to go to any of the
Degen gatherings I have to uh well everywhere that's probably for you mate you're in Australia yeah I know well
thanks yeah I realized Colombia well Colombia is pretty close to you in the
grander scheme of things but you know you're not going there no well I mean it's a long way away in a
plane still but um I wonder you actually try and get to South Korea was maybe
like hack atom was in South Korea that's that's about as close as it's going to get to Australia isn't it yeah that's
pretty that's not too bad in Asia um but it was like bad timing um
but uh I'm I'm trying to do some forward planning and I wouldn't mind getting to
uh East Denver should we should be good if we can get there it's like not massively Cosmos related but still
should be a pretty good um Gathering there close enough but Dr Cosmos related at all
yeah well you know it might be something that um the evmos people would be
at so still be some of us attending
but anyway it'll just get me over there and I'll be able to come visit people I just like rock up at um usurper's house
yeah we're only six hours away from there yeah I was gonna say it's only the other side of the country it's fine
that's that's literally like I do that drive on a Sunday afternoon just to go
to my mailbox [Laughter] man England is so small by comparison I
literally have I have to get a train at the weekend and there's still everything is still [ __ ] because everything is
breaking down here at the moment like there aren't enough train drivers there's barely enough bin man like it's really 1970 [ __ ] right here right now
and uh I'm now all right basically I'm going to be I need to get this train
from this place to this place it's quite it's quite a long trip and I was like [ __ ] if that train gets canceled I'm
[ __ ] and I was like hang on no way England's really small I was like how how far actually is it like if that
train gets canceled I get totally [ __ ] I need to be in this place on Monday right the train is on Sunday afternoon I
was like it's actually only 180 kilometers and then you're like that's okay that is long to ride on a bike that
is eight hours of non-stop cycling yeah not impossible right but I know I can I
know I've done that before so I'm like it would be annoying to have to cycle that with my laptop and all my [ __ ] to
basically go to work on Monday I would not um anybody who saw me on Monday I would not be a [ __ ] happy bunny do
you know what I mean but I will get there so yeah like basically how the [ __ ] do you get
England if you've got a pedal bicycle with you you could probably get to your destination if you're bloody minded
enough even France is way too big for that from my house from my house to my partner's house is a
12-hour Drive Jesus that's from That's from the north of England to the south of France that's
how far that will get you in Europe that is crazy I do that drive for a long weekend like it's uh
I mean the difference is well they probably I mean it's a similar it's probably a
similar cost now to flying too because flying I just flew here yesterday
um from a place on the coast and it was a thousand bucks return wow and
to drive so it's about 2 000 K's return
so yeah probably Yeah well yeah it's about it's probably
a bit more than a thousand miles but it's it's um so that would be about
I don't know six or seven hundred bucks in fuel anyway at the moment so yeah yeah cheers
yeah it's a big country man it takes a long time to get from A to B but I'm quite used to just jumping in
the car and driving like five or six hours though if I want to go somewhere yeah we do that I mean we do that too I
mean six hours from here I mean we're in you know New York or you know down Tennessee or something else like there's
there's a lot within six hours here but I think there's a lot to do also less than six hours away which I think that's
the difference here right like well I guess what are you staring at for six hours yeah exactly like I guess the
difference is that I'll do that for a weekend you probably wouldn't just drive six hours for a weekend right
so yes we're now just talking about another Community world oh sorry
uh yeah you certainly are that's um so I I want to bring it back to some of the
questions we have for Larry that's a good idea guess get us back on on topic but so like Larry the other thing I was
kind of interested in in sort of having you on the show to talk about is that you're uh you've come over from the
terror ecosystem I guess you know when that all all collapsed and so you kind of have like I guess you've had enough
time to land in Cosmos now that maybe maybe now you maybe the time to ask you
this would have been like a couple of months ago when you were like whoa okay this is really different um like what's your perception on like
um the things that Cosmos does well and badly and like there must be some like things that you see you're based on some
of the stuff that was really really well worked out in Terror let's say um there must be some stuff that you
look at in Cosmos and you're like that's just like a huge that's that's just like absolutely low
hanging fruit that's an opportunity that just nobody's take it and kind of stuff yeah like
one thing I keep wondering is what what to ok so long for customers to to make
their own stable coin well there still isn't well we have usk from
kujira but other than that there's like no stable coin in Cosmos
so yeah it's like no there's no backstage no he's getting ready he's like he's like stable coin stable coin
yeah I mean I mean yeah the fact that there's one that's not properly backed that's not a bridged coin is really
really annoying but yeah continue yeah that's definitely a low hanging
fruit um so I think one thing Tara did really
well is they have these what I would call first party protocols where the the
developer of the chain terraformed labs they would sponsor well they would lead developing a number of protocols like
they have they had anchor they had mirror they had uh nebula protocol which
which didn't many managed to launch in time Ontario classic they have ozone
which was supposed to be a insurance protocol so you you may say some of these are
pansies though some of definitely do have tonsil elements in them but uh they
were they did indeed have very good user experience and uh that's how you get the most out of your
ponzinomics yeah I think I think definitely data did a good job like
leading these protocols to like bootstrap bootstrap their ecosystem
so there were just like a lot of projects in Terror that were even just had seed
funding from terraform Labs too right uh I'm not aware
of that to be quite honest um so well I've talked to a few people
sorry I've talked to a few people that said that they were you know they basically had like seed funding out of
some Fund in in um Terror and then hired these enormous teams of people
well I I definitely don't remember any of the projects I'm involved with
received pfl money like at least I personally don't know
were there other um you know organizations in Terror that were doing funding maybe it was some
other organization in there um because terraforms wasn't the only one with a big cache of like Luna right
yeah so like what I guess what I meant to say is that
let's say just say Juno right um I thought you know doesn't have a
an entity like tfl to to lead develop defy protocols on top of
it but we have dialed out that's pretty cool um yeah but I know what you mean there's
there's no um there's no cached up wallet that's like going out looking for
specifically like leading development out of that organization they're sort of
are funding a lot of development but not really um like actually leading it with with devs
and and creating the direction that they're they're going with certain apps or
anything like there's nothing like that yeah I mean I think just just funding is
not enough to attract developers like developers nowadays can
like many different chains have foundings right you can you can you can get funding on Avalanche you can get
found in a polygon you can get funding on near so Juno is not particularly attractive
just by funding so what Tara had was you know anchor head
20 yield which which in retrospect definitely is not sustainable and
whatever but but that 20 yield
is an excellent D5 building block and a lot of things that are simply not possible on other chains
are possible on terror given that yield I think that that is a much much bigger
incentive for developers to build on Terra then a foundation gives out some funding
right yeah let's see what you're saying um but at the same time it was
a Ponzi yeah um
so the the funny thing about that is is like at the time
like we retrospectively look back at that and get oh geez that was a Ponzi but
um like at the time I I knew it was sus right but I still
used it I just used it sparingly just to park stuff and then clear it off but it's like what was like what was the
feeling of everyone else I know I asked a couple of times around our groups but you know it'd be like doesn't UST seem a
bit sus and then everyone would be like yeah I suppose you know probably is a
bit sucks with that kind of return on a stable coin and everyone's like anchor
just just go there anyway so how did you feel about it like when it was like did
you ever go there and deposit money and go it doesn't quite seem like this might be the safest thing to do
everybody knew that the 20 yield wasn't real everybody knew
that it's not generated from real organic borrowing demands
and that terraform Labs was earning money in that so-called yield Reserve to to
sustain 20 yield but the argument at that point was that
for a new tech startup at this at that point of
development it's normal for a tax startup to burn money right like
Amazon at its comparable stage was also burning money and I would say
probably Microsoft Apple Google they were all earning money at that point I don't I don't think
they're like to be honest completely comparable because when you look at like you know
Tech startups that lose money they're they're losing money to
uh create a user base on like uh mostly it's like a freemium type
um tier system where they start off free and then they start bringing in premium features and then you know it becomes
sort of part paid part free and and supported by advertising right I don't
think that's like completely comparable to what Tara was doing because when you
look at Terror uh that was their core product um was something that loses money and
there was no way to to turn that around to something that doesn't lose money unless they hit a critical mass of users
in the borrowing Department which to be able to give a 20 return would mean that people borrowing the money would have to
be putting in more than 20 and I don't think that was going to be feasible in the long term anyway why would anyone go
into the I criticize that I I remember I brought
a tweet thread on that as well so it was it was it wasn't a secret but at the at the time
the expectation was that the protocol design will adjust in the
future to to make this to be to become sustainable
and at that point the money burning to to keep this thing
20 percent was a short-term measure to to to to get a
bigger user base and Achieve Network effects right um and actually before the before the
the DPAC work had already been done on improving anchor
um there was a there was a governance proposal on anchor regarding a so-called
um I forgot the exact terminology but the idea is there should be a free floating
interest rate instead of yeah it was like the save save anchor proposal I saw
it come through yeah so so the idea is like every every every month or so
um the interest rate will be adjusted based on the supply and demand at the time so yeah so someone did a
massive write-up on it I read some of it because I was kind of I didn't even really understand the voodoo behind
anchor at the time so I was like trying to find information on it and that's when I saw that um come up and there was
a lot of thought put into that but it never really got action though right they did reduce the the return at some point from the anger
but yeah so so the return was already lower than 20 at the time so and and it
was supposed to keep going down so yeah yeah so but at the same time like all of
the reserves that were feeding that were all from gains in Luna right
um so yeah it was easy to see that once the um
the price of Luna started to turn back after the hype train finished it was always doomed but it's easy to say that
in in hindsight um yeah well in hindsight
basically everything that could do could go wrong went wrong and everything that tfl could
do wrong they did it wrong right [Laughter]
pick all the wrong things and then do them macro was the worst
as as bad as can be macro condition was as bad as can be
um the comms was as bad as could be like yeah macro was terrible at the time
um anchors product uh protocol design was not not also like we
were saying that if anchor had a withdrawal lockup period that like maybe have a seven day lockout
period nobody would be able to dump all at once then well you could at least see the
cliff coming anyway the burn mint can could have been able to absorb the
selling pressure if the selling pressure like comes up gradually over some some weeks instead of all at once
Luna probably could have absorbed that selling pressure and keep USD on pad
so yeah I don't know man like Luna Luna was already on the slide it it might not have been like completely obvious but it
had been drifting down trending for like weeks before it actually fell over
another thing people said was uh lfg at the time was selling all the
assets they can to to buy UST to keep it on pack what if they had taken a different
strategy what if they don't store away all their assets at
once but just allow USD to be pack for some time let the market to calm down
and then buy back later will that work possibly but I think they did that to a
degree because there were some pretty um like obvious lines in the sand where they were defending price points but
from what it looked like on the charts when when they were going down like they'd try to defend for example 60
cents and then it got broken after a while and then I'd go back and defend like 30 cents or whatever it did look
like they were doing some defending on at certain price points but I think at the end of the day there's just that
much pressure on the price that it was just too hard to hold yeah well I mean the the general idea is
that there are a lot of what-ifs what if anchor didn't have 20 what if it was like four percent right what what if
anchor had a visual law cut period what what if tfl took a different strategy at
the time so there were a lot of what ifs um if some of these what ifs were the case
it might not have collapsed so well I buy note of collapse so
spectacularly right so
so yeah my sentiment is that hair is not a scam it was a legitimate
project it's economic model could have worked if
some of the things were done right but it wasn't that right
and it was it was done wrong at possibly the worst time given the global macro
and this collapse is a is sets back stable quality
many years and it brought a lot of regulatory pressure
for all stable coin Developers so so it's uh yeah in my jurisdiction
stable coins are literally the only thing that's regulated uh or that we're
going to be regulated and that just made it like the legal advice is like don't [ __ ] touch anything that looks like a stable
coin you're like cool noted will not be touching anything that
looks like a stable coin thank you very much in what way do you mean like touch it as in use it or oh okay right or but
potentially even a validator but again the it's so early the the the rules
around that are not clear but uh in the UK anything that's basically if you end up in like a regulated area at the very
least you usually have to register as like an entity carrying out interest in a regulated area so basically if
anything goes wrong they can come knock on your door um and then it goes from there depending
on what you're doing like obviously you want to start a bank you know that's like Peak regulation
because you can issue credit and stuff and that's like a really big deal
um and then it kind of goes down from like oh I just want to have a cash card to you know I just want to do some
Financial Tech stuff to I want to do crypto [ __ ] nobody cares
somewhere in the completely unregulated bit down there um but yeah stable coins are going to be
like at some I I would be very surprised if it doesn't work pretty soon actually it's all about consumer risk here
yeah that's that's the biggest thing is consumer risk yeah yeah exactly and that that I think the funny thing about
Terror in that regard is it I think like put stable coins big on the agenda here
um and they already kind of were like The Regulators were aware of them blah blah blah but I think it also maybe made
everything else seem so risky that it actually took the edge off of regulation in a weird way
um I I feel like a lot of people didn't know that UST was like an algo stable
you know regular users um like
Titan was in recent memory as well like it was not that long ago
and then for UST to fall over as well like are there any other Fargo Stables left
well that doesn't die yeah yeah I guess dial one like isn't usk okay it is isn't it yeah
so they you know I've seen talk about overcollateralized
um you know coins as as Stables but I mean that only works until the
underlying asset is so battered that it doesn't work anymore and
that will happen at some point yeah so I I don't know how they can work
pretty hard to say anyway um that's we we obviously we started a
little late but uh Larry thanks very much for for joining us uh sorry about the little bit of confusion there at the
start um it was great to have you on and and talk about quite a wide range of things in the end and uh maybe we'll have you
back on at some point when you've recovered from this ordeal um you're uh for uh are you going to be
in uh somebody somebody was asking in the comments who who is going to be in Colombia are you going to be at Cosmo
verse or are you Lisbon I will be at Cosmos and actually
I haven't finished the badges front end web app yet so I guess I have two more
days so yeah
if you go to cosmiverse and you don't manage to get your hands on a badge then
you can you now know what Larry looks like so you can come find him and complain about when badge
because I'm sure Larry will really really like you doing that uh
um right cool thanks thanks very much Larry uh and we'll catch you soon
all right so honestly I have no idea what the [ __ ] Larry was talking about
most of that so I was getting like such piecemeal parts of the conversation I was like I
don't know what the [ __ ] going on well that's because your internet yeah that's kind of part your internet and part perhaps and not understanding the ins
and outs of the the Epic holy war between functional programmers and object-oriented programmers which
um yeah you're just so javascript's OIP right uh uh JavaScript is a prototypically
inherited uh object-oriented language with first class functions so actually has it has
some elements of functional programming Paradigm in it and it's object model is really unusual
um so inheritance did anyone tell Larry that we just boot
them off after an hour and see you later no uh well that well that's why I didn't just that's why I didn't just rug I I
said Thanks for for being on the show and then we'll see you later
that's okay it's like why did they drop me off yeah
so FYI appreciate it you ain't coming back but this is what the pre-show is
for eign
yeah I think human in the in the chat sorry if I've pronounced your name wrong said uh he's planning on yelling one
badge whenever he sees Larry Cosmo verse which I assume means he's gonna be a cosm reverse
um so before like I feel like Noel now is these these thought about stable coins again wants to get back into it
but but I'm so massively [ __ ] tired it's like really hard to think at the moment but but we we've got to talk
about wake and Fry I know that usurper hasn't finished it yet I have not finished it film club film club homework
was the absolutely insane Australian cult film wake him for it you can you if
you want a spoiler you can Sound the Horn and you guys I'm not that's totally fine I'm not gonna spoil her but you've
seen up to the kangaroo hunt right yeah yeah yeah so
so those of you who are watching along you're like what is he talking about kangaroo Hut so I've been told like I
haven't so with the caveat I've not fact checked this so this could be incredible the at the end of the film there is a
big disclaimer about this kangaroo hunt being a licensed event because apparently it's a big deal can't just go
shoot kangaroos it was the 70s man because maybe you can't just shoot kangaroos in the 70s
but there is a disclaimer right but apparently so we so we have tags right so over here if you want to go shoot
kangaroos you have to tag them afterwards right so you get you can farmers can get certain amount of tags
for like because for most Property Owners um kangaroos are actually pests right
because they destroy all different fences and there's [ __ ] tons of them and so they'll just go around and as
they see them they'll just shoot them and put a tag on their tail right so that's that's how it works so
yeah so what I'd heard anyway is that the the they they were like we want to do the slight license hunt have it all
above board and in so far there's no cruelty to animals Maybe it doesn't look that way on film
um and what happened was the people who were doing the hunt had a few beers a few Castle main forexes as well probably
a lot of beers the funny I didn't recognize any of those [ __ ] beers in that movie man they're all done
yeah they're all and and they kept referring to a specific brand of beer as
well and it just oh yeah it's just everyone was pumping that one beer [ __ ] is this yeah a little Amber it looks
refreshing and they had they had it coming out of a hose it was literally like a hose they were just look at that
at the bar it was like coming out of a hose where that like I just put it right in the glass they were it was like no no tap it was just like somebody's got a
hose just cracking on yeah move on hey you know so you know um you know how in
Belgium like there's a a kind of old-fashioned type of beer that people are into where it's like a spontaneous ferment
um it's very acquired taste but how that used to work was they would literally have a barrel on the bar
yeah and then it would just be like you want some bam there you go there's the house Brew I think that's pretty [ __ ] cool
actually just dip your head in or what I guess yeah you just put your head straight
it's like that Simpsons joke you know with the uh was is the red tick beer
where there's like the duff brow and then there's the red tick and then there's just dogs swimming around a red
ticket needs more tick um yeah it's kind of a so I thought one thing
that was striking about that um wake and fright movie I just haven't come across any movies from the 70s that are like
so um seemingly Progressive in style I guess of that show than than like the
similar like other offerings in that time period you know it was like
a very different uh format and storyline then most things that you can pick up
from the 70s yeah I haven't seen anything from the 70s that was in that style it's apparently a
classic of Australian Cinema as a result like it it's like if you go if you look at look up it's like Rotten Tomatoes
review despite it being a weird difficult and scarring film yeah it's
got like 85 of Rotten Tomatoes like there's got there's all this stuff about it being like the beginning of the
Australian new waiver Cinema and stuff like presumably whoever saw it was was
as freaked out and as like whoa about it I mean it's one of those films you know
when you're like it's impossible not to have a reaction of some kind and this film will stay
with you you know about that film for better for worse of
the 59 Critic reviews and the Tomato Meter 97 positive from critics and 83
from the audience which is 97 has to be up there like there's not much that has that
level that's high you know ridiculously yeah but I mean like yeah I mean I've
had a [ __ ] nightmare about a film it's it's brilliant the the funny thing is like
the the part that you're you know the parts of that that you're thinking you're like
probably you know really uh theatrical yeah is
probably like back then if you were a country boy out like you know West in
Queensland or New South Wales like on a property or a station
it's not that hard to think that some [ __ ] like that might have gone down on a
regular basis like I even when I was a landlord I can remember getting hammered drunk and
shooting kangaroos when I was a kid so yeah and that whole thing that whole heads and tails game I was like this is
some high level of competition here but I could oh yeah that happening right yeah yeah that could be almost I
wouldn't even be surprised if that was actually a game that was going on yeah yeah yeah and they literally went we're
gonna film Lads yeah uh there is there is so that's called two-up that's called
two up that game right and we still play that here on Anzac Day you do at rsl's
only it's it's you're not allowed to play at any other time except for Anzac Day at rsl's clubs is that you know what
do you mean there's like two uh police that Patrol the neighborhoods looking for people playing two up what do you mean you can't play the other time well
it's at home well you could do it at home but at a licensed establishment it's illegal to play any other time
except for Anzac day which is like um Memorial Day for the wars no [ __ ] yeah
so there's where they're licensed to up locations there must have been I I presume back in the day they used to
just play that [ __ ] everywhere and then you know if they probably went well I
don't know if there's dogs playing poker on your wall right now yeah there is
That's a classic That's a classic uh photo I'm aware it's
like a classic thing but I I just never looked at that that wall before it I was like have I missed that this entire time
like what 29th episode 29th episode I didn't even see that you've got the dogs playing poker I think it's good I'm
Gonna Change it to dogs playing tour yeah actually just a legit photograph of
jabby's place on a Saturday afternoon that's how that's what they're doing at the weekend so
um so yeah the the somebody also told me that I don't know which one the bar scenes but won the bar scenes they it is
just filmed in a place and they just said for the next half an hour we're just gonna pay the bar tab Lads
and it's filmed in like a mining town and they just went uh you just don't look at the actors no don't look at the
camera don't look at the camera but you can look you can do whatever you want yeah and yeah and so uh yeah it was on
like a bank holiday or something like that I don't know like the exact specifics but seems pretty legit but
that's why it makes me think that maybe the two-up game was also just happening like like oh yeah let's film this
let's roll this I imagine they would have been like a lot of takes maybe with people like looking at the camera going
which is people randomly walk in be like what the [ __ ] going on here Donald Pleasence is such a good actor
too that guy that guy totally stands out in this movie that's uh kind of crazy old guy who you
know walks around the shirt off all the time and all that I don't think everybody knows who he is but he was in
The Great Escape he was the one with the daughter uh no the other crazy old guy
um the one in the shack yeah the one the shack is like use the bathroom outside then the guy goes out and takes a piss
he's a stands there and watches them in the Great Escape and he was in one of
the Bond movies right we were talking about before yeah in bond yeah yeah I forget what movie
that was now I can't smell that somebody answered um but he's he's just a great actor until he makes that movie
to anyone who has insane wake in front just go and watch it it's yeah [ __ ]
out there what are we doing what is one of the films of all time um I I also watched idiot box as well
I'm not sure who mentioned that last week but I went and watched idiot books I'm sure someone mentioned it sure
another Australian film from judging by the quality maybe the early 90s or
something they all kind of look like all Australian films I know have a slightly
[ __ ] up storyline which is good that's a good thing they're everybody's sweating because it's always hot
as [ __ ] every sweating the whole time and there's a slight yellow tint on all
the film that's what it is that's what kind of looks like that's my Australian view it's good that Australian tint I mean it's a slight yellow tint on my
camera here so yeah see no joke maybe it's just a hue of the wallpaper we like
to use shines and it's in a yellow light it's just the sun's a little bit different or something yeah but that was uh like that's that's
got some actors that are still active so it's like that old yeah 1996 but I like
about 96 yeah it's still still a good film so uh
we've we've got a we've got we're gonna have to self rug at some point soon because we've got uh we've got a hard
stop haven't we but uh there's been there's been a fair bit of just on I am I not aware of like there's
obviously been like uh sift chain stop yeah it almost took a while to get rolling on
uh after it's upgrade but it's back up now right those are weird yeah so the evmos upgrade there's a lot of people
who are having a long time to upgrade right um some were there early and signed the
block but then there was a [ __ ] bug after it um so in the with the the new
binary you can't have any pruning now um otherwise it has like a pruning error
that usually we used to get that same pruning area uh era when you were trying to do snapshots
um in your your pruning schedule didn't agree with your snapshots used to get the same error but now you just get that
error for any pruning weirdly it came up on different blocks on different nodes of mine so you know some made it a Fair
Way along and others didn't um so it was a problem for me because it was in the middle of the [ __ ] night
that upgrade and then so I saw everything was fine I went to bed and I woke up to like
you know people yelling at us on Twitter or whatever but um as usual
yeah so we fixed it wasn't a problem to fix it up we just had to find out you know what the fix was but yeah yeah so
it's like you know A bit chaotic before this stream just trying to figure out what the hell was going on and
um yeah so I think you're in the same boat right usurper you you were like thought it was okay and then you know it
started to drop off with this Panic yeah it looked like it was doing all the right things it was dialing and it was kind of waiting for consensus and it was
doing fine and then um I already had all my pager Duty stuff turned off because I know it's in a [ __ ] State and then I guess it started moving
but I was not signing because of this uh the node was still running so I didn't have a process error it just wasn't
following the chain like it just through that weird error so yeah that Panic well mine kept restarting so oh it did mine
wasn't it was just running like it was dialing fine everything fine just had I had to go back and query the logs to see where the Panic was it was like 30
minutes before I saw it so um but anyway whatever so I I didn't have like
actually now that I think about it I don't think I had um like warnings about
my Daemon not running or restarting I think it might have been yeah that it was just stalled yeah um and but like it
was yeah I don't know man because I don't know I was reading errors like
earlier on and it was it seemed like it was like running and then stalling and then I don't know I just figured though
people were having trouble getting consensus because of start up the startup errors but it's been man it's
been a [ __ ] rough like date because there was evmos there was say which was
a bundled upgrade because of um a tagging issue and then
[ __ ] there was another one yesterday as well which I think also got [ __ ] up so yeah I know people oh it's a secret
right yeah so secret I had a problem with as well yeah something
um I can't even remember what the problem was now I think I just States linked to both my nodes and they
were off and running again but so maybe next Wednesday we just need a [ __ ]
about stuff episode yeah yeah I mean I was traveling yesterday with all these [ __ ] young
crates and I was like having to pull over the side of the road and like do stuff I was have you ever tried that um
have an SSH uh session on airplane Wi-Fi it's not great I I have pushed code
during the first Juno Crash from under the under the uh the channel which is
the the channel yeah all right from the tab from the tethered Wi-Fi that you get on the
Eurostar when you are under the the under the sea like a barn villain like blowfailed
yourself