yeah outstanding if that's like hitting these yeah anyway
0:12
[Music]
0:20
hello and welcome to game of nodes weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent validator teams and uh
0:27
tonight well tonight we were supposed to have uh code hands from superheroes
0:32
code hats super hands uh appropriately uh given his nickname he
0:38
rugged us so uh which anybody who's familiar with peep show will recognize the pattern of
0:44
behavior i don't think it was cocaine related so to be fair we weren't entirely well i
0:50
mean we were rugged but i mean he's he's made a decision
0:55
to spend time with his wife who had made a booking
1:01
which i think is perfectly um fair happy wife happy life happy wife
1:07
laughing life is the most boomerish thing you can say man
1:23
i got married young and so that was like suddenly old men in the pub were were
1:29
just giving me boomer advice all the time there's like other they see the rain they're like they're like oh you're very long so
1:35
you're like and then yeah i just always say happy wife happy life are you married is your
1:41
wife happy do you give her the the jolly roger
1:48
that is basically what happens in england yeah so jolly roger
1:55
so are you saying that guys would see your your ring and then they would pick up on you because you had a ring that
2:01
was saying they're flirting with you no it's more like so i live in the north of england where
2:07
people will just talk to you in a way people don't south of england um
2:12
and in that period in my life i spent quite a lot of time drinking random pubs in the hills
2:18
because of reasons mainly hiking cycling also going drinking on the train there's
2:24
a lot of there's a lot of things in the north of england involved taking a train somewhere and drinking all the places
2:29
you can stop on the way is this where you've developed your affinity for trains
2:34
i would i've always been a fan of trains but obviously the station pub is an
2:40
institution that has largely died off in some parts of the country but it's still going strong
2:46
in uh in parts of the north of england where there's a pub on the platform sorry like that oh right okay we can
2:52
talk cosmos in there i'll break it down for you because i don't think i've ever experienced the station pub right so the
2:58
station i haven't yeah the station pub is we have the ticket office and then attached to the ticket office there's a
3:04
pub so if you have a train line you could it has many stops especially like a rural
3:11
one where maybe the train is every hour or so you can take a train buy a ticket to like the terminus
3:17
and then get off at every pub every station sorry well i may as well be a part of this but right you get off at
3:23
every station go to the station pub have a pint it takes about 45 minutes whatever just
3:28
take your time and then you get back on the train go to the next station get off have another planet the pub
3:34
and then and you know these this is these quite these quite small rural places quite often so you you just get
3:40
you get chat to the people there because they're just like oh what you're doing you're going go to a few you're the pubs online yeah
3:46
yeah and they're like oh you you young guy you married and you're like yeah they're like say happy happy wife happy
3:52
life and you're like oh we're having fun man why'd you bring that up so so what was
3:59
what we're saying is so basically people are going for a pub crawl on the train yeah yeah and
4:05
and people from the local communities are going to the uh the train pub to
4:12
like the station pub to experience some diversity in conversation with you know yeah they just know how to jump they're
4:18
just like the pop pop in a plane oh they just hit the pub because it's yeah one of the only pubs in town and these small
4:23
towns right hence depending which village you're in yeah and so when you say they book a ticket to the terminus
4:30
so they're they're like going to the end of the line but so they're getting off the train
4:36
and like spending some time at the pub and then getting back on another train or do the trains just like wait around
4:41
for an hour already i'm saying because let's say trains go through every hour or every half an hour yeah you can you
4:47
can get a pint in an hour easy maybe so they've just got a day ticket and going on a pub crawl
4:53
yeah you just because [ __ ] anything else to do yeah that's really good like there's a
4:59
bunch of these in in england where there are there are lines that people know they can go boozing on and it's like a
5:04
thing i'm not going to lie that sounds incredible yes i'll be down and actually one of the first people i
5:11
introduced this to was a friend of mine from australia who didn't quite believe it was a thing and i was like
5:17
uh let's call him john to not talk so i was like come on chuck
5:22
that's good this is great and he had a great time he was like this is amazing more more more places you should have
5:28
train pubs i guess you don't train pubs in australia so no like no one really gets on the train
5:34
in australia because it's [ __ ] and we got like that one train haven't you well i mean so the pro primarily in australia
5:41
the trains are just around like the cities so lots of people use it for that commuting around the cities but
5:48
like country trains there is one but you know the the stops are like
5:55
just a box you know it's not like a place it's just
6:00
a box with a car park and you get out and you get in your car or someone picks you up and you piss off to where you're
6:05
going well like in america often not even that it's just like literally like a
6:11
a piece of raised tarmac and it's like get off get off thanksgiving crazy colorado [ __ ]
6:17
and roll tuck and roll yeah that's the thing fraser colorado where you literally pull up but it's like no
6:23
this is the stop for that place there's like one before that on that line where
6:29
the the the platform is really low it's like recessed into the valley because it's
6:35
near the colorado river but the town is like you know like a bit higher up and there's just like a load of steps up
6:41
from the platform and apparently if you walk up all the steps to the height of the road road it's only like
6:47
50 meters or something but because of where the the whistle is that blows to say the train is leaving in two minutes
6:53
you can't actually hear it from up on the road so people go up to the road to take a photo of the town and
6:59
then the train pulls away and it's because it's america the train is every [ __ ] day so apparently like on the
7:06
reg people get out leave all their [ __ ] on their table alive they go up they take a photo turn around train [ __ ] off
7:13
and they're now no money like staying in this random town is like i guess it's colorado
7:18
i can't remember the name of it it's the one i think it's the stock before fraser colorado some uh
7:23
i don't know i don't really know the trains in the states very much i mean all i've heard about them is don't use them so
7:29
that's completely the trains are awesome they're just come comedically slow compared to you
7:35
know countries that have yeah i mean so that's the thing right so i've been i've been on one train before i mean i've been on a time because i'm i've been
7:42
from portland so they have light rail stuff but the only time i've actually used the trail to like travel between places um i learned that trains are
7:49
lower priorities than like commercial trains and so like there was one time where we're in the middle of the
7:55
mountains and we had to get off onto a different like exit so that a cold train could go past but in the time that we
8:02
were here like off on the side the train like the operator suddenly like hits eight
8:09
hours turned over and by the union he can't work more than eight hours and so we were just there for like six hours for a new crew to drive in to take
8:16
us like the final 20 minutes to the train station so after that i was like absolutely not
8:24
well it was like literally in the mountains in the middle of winter and it was actually like you know 15 miles or whatever but it was like some absolutely
8:32
ridiculous situation where they had to drive in from you know the other side of the state
8:37
yes because most of the most the cross-country rail lines are still owned by the freight operators aren't they um
8:42
yeah yeah exactly yep and so they have to get off of the next thing so the freight can go by and if you're there for an hour then suddenly the clock
8:49
ticks over and you're like well i can't go anywhere i guess we'll just hang out for six hours
8:55
my favorite batch of american history is all the stuff about the railway wars where the freight operators were getting paid
9:02
to build the railway and so they were like sabotaging each other's railways and stuff to make them looking competent
9:07
in the federal government so they can get the contract to build the other railways and [ __ ] like
9:12
it just it just it just sounds unbelievable but it's totally true anyway um well hold on i have one more
9:18
thing to say about railways since we're talking about that did you know that the railways are
9:23
actually the reason why the bison almost went extinct they were so prolific that the railways like it would interrupt the
9:29
timing schedules that the us military was like listen we can't deal with this
9:35
it's open season on bison go have fun really
9:40
i [ __ ] you not [ __ ] and then and then here's another better
9:46
bit the guy who brought bison back was actually like some footballer who just happened to like bison and so he like
9:52
created a ranch with like the last hundred bison and then it basically turned into you know the
9:57
half a million or whatever we have now just some footballer like them and decided to to
10:05
how you got a lot of your wolves back as well because they were largely hunted out and then like yes
10:10
from some people were like had them still in some bits of the us and they were basically just putting them in an rv driving them across the country and
10:16
then releasing them in a national park if they've got stuff like oh look at all my huskies these don't look like huskies
10:22
these look like wolves no they're just huskies just driving partially true true
10:28
partially partially true however it is true that there is not a single wolf in the u.s that is like
10:35
still native from from like lower 48. all of the wolves that we have that are in the us now are actually imported from
10:41
canada yep because they are completely brought to extinction i thought it would have
10:46
been the south to north but it's not the south is it yup yup yup i see we're learning we're
10:52
learning you may not be learning about the cosmos right now but we're learning about uh important keystone species that keep
10:59
uh that keep us from the uh the impending environmental collapse that we're all going to face in a few years
11:05
um anyway our viewership is down lads do you think this is because we don't actually
11:11
[ __ ] talk about anything we're supposed to maybe maybe maybe this while we keep getting rugged uh cause less
11:17
harm says reading station club is one of the best things in reading nice callbacks i hate reading and yes i
11:22
have been i've actually been sick in reading station pub that's fun fact
11:28
okay so let's move on right so um the fray is anything in the spreadsheet here like
11:35
you know is this accurate are these the things that we're going to talk about today have you looked at the spreadsheet
11:40
yeah we've got follow-ups so we had a whole we had a whole set of um
11:47
oh the the follow-ups i think uh the follow-up sorry i didn't delete those from last week
11:52
okay so it's not the rest of it all the questions for code hands uh i actually i put them in as
11:58
placeholders but i have actual questions on my notepad like i actually prepared for this like an
12:03
interviewer uh i got up early to prepare for this this morning only to find that we had been
12:10
rugged so i mean that wasn't uh that didn't work out for
12:15
me i went back to sleep [Laughter] i mean at least you got some sleep
12:21
that's you know something um so yeah we've got we've got to be fair we've got
12:26
some guests coming up in the next few weeks so hopefully it won't rub us so i'm pretty excited about that but so can we can we reveal our lineup or are we
12:32
too scared that we might get rugged well we get wrecked again if we reveal it do we get rocks well okay so we were
12:38
supposed to have uh ethan on in a couple of weeks for those who don't know ethan frey the father of
12:44
cos and wasm yeah very exciting which is the first phrase
12:49
i know that he was the first fray in the cosmos but how long have you been going by the fray
12:54
uh i have been going the fray has been my handle since
13:02
i want to say 2004. so
13:09
i so you probably are the first fray then i might be the first fray but i'm not
13:15
well i mean i depends what ethan's handle was if it had his name in it then
13:22
yeah he was the first player in the cosmos anyway i i chose i chose unwisely when i first
13:28
uh what had been joined the cosmos discord or whatever and was like i just used my regular handle it is like it is
13:35
a little bit inconvenient having two phrases that are both developers it's
13:40
quite confusing it's quite easy though because you remember one of them's actually like a quite serious like incredible developer
13:49
and the other one's me so that's that's a pretty there's a pretty easy way of remembering
13:56
uh which one's which like if you kind of just like kind of complains a lot [ __ ] post on
14:03
twitter probably me does incredible low-level work design systems
14:09
builds teams probably ethan you know it's not too hard to to work out which
14:15
ones which but um but yeah so um so that would be exciting
14:20
and then uh we've got a couple of other people on from other chains haven't we
14:25
but we just need to sort out dates so also i mean i certainly feel like
14:31
actually the since since our burnout cast last week i don't know about you but i actually feel a little bit better
14:37
because i spent it was a bank holiday weekend here and i spent uh a good chunk of it making drum and
14:44
bass in my in my spare well spare room but where i am now what's the burning out cast last week
14:51
huh yeah i know it seems like a few weeks ago that's burnout for you um
14:57
so you know with that in mind i'm kind of looking at looking at what we what we're doing now and going like i can help it
15:03
really is we are really in a kind of low energy bear market situation now aren't we i don't know i kind of feel a little
15:09
bit rejuvenated this week i've been uh you know getting into the trawl on the chats and
15:15
you know cranking things up again i really need to improve my twitter game i don't spend enough time on twitter
15:20
apparently you know you can like schedule that [ __ ] right my delegations are down man i need to get it and stir
15:26
some [ __ ] up on twitter maybe you should show a picture of your boner i don't feel like i can compete with
15:32
vitalik he's got quite the hog so in the pre-show uh mel was talking about prices being up
15:40
because in italic and uh we had to explain to sure see what was going on so uh yeah the uh the ethereum price
15:47
shooting up uh v dick
15:52
[Laughter] so i mean the token the token is v dick
15:59
presumably that's vitalik's dick somebody may soak it yes
16:04
metallic big dick inu
16:10
um liquidity 143 000 okay so not not great wow right i mean
16:16
that's pretty high for just some [ __ ] coin that's like pretty decent
16:22
compared to like a lot of the cosmos coins on osmosis for example
16:32
fully diluted value six 476 dollars
16:37
oh so it's got quite a low cap then yeah still half a million dollars worth of deck is packing
16:44
sounds like it's time to invest this is not financial advice folks do
16:49
not go and buy this yeah do not go and validate that [ __ ] um well
16:54
well ether is still not proof this is how [ __ ] out there i am have they done the merge yet i don't know
17:01
i didn't pay attention no no no the merge is in like two weeks or something i feel like out of all of the game of
17:08
notes crew shorts who's probably most likely to know what is happening with validators
17:15
yeah are you running are you gonna be running on ethe are you running a validator that feels like a thing you might do
17:20
it seems like something i would do yeah uh i don't have 32 e to just stack on the validator i'll be honest like i'm
17:28
not i'm not that loaded what is that is that about 50 grand
17:33
yeah i give it to you right what was that what was the all-time high
17:38
underneath like again i'm showing how [ __ ] stupid i am right now but like 60 000 6 000 yeah
17:47
pretty hefty chunk of change then at peak um but then i suppose you know the the
17:52
buy in a lot of cosmos chains over 100k isn't it so when i first got into validating i
17:58
wanted to be like an eighth validator and then like promptly didn't anymore i don't know why
18:06
got bored i just see like i don't know like that there's that much value in it
18:12
for a validator unless you're like a big one right only really
18:18
there's thousands of the men there's thousands and thousands of validators yeah it really seems like something
18:24
where you build a name recognition and then have them delegate to you i mean like
18:29
i'm no cracking right yeah like i just feel like smaller operators aren't really going to be any
18:35
kind of profitable so yeah it's pretty centralized in terms of stake isn't it as well
18:42
yeah it's like one one operator controls like a few nodes which controls like most of the
18:48
network right okay so far as i've heard i in passing in some news that i read one
18:54
day at some point as a as an aside though that's an interesting
19:00
it does make you realize that you know as we were saying oh well actually a lot of cosmos networks the buy-in is quite
19:05
high if you okay nobody's got 100 grand lying around that's the problem with the high buy-in
19:12
but hypothetically the point like hypothetically a validator is supposed to self-stake
19:19
their way into the set aren't they that's like because you're either in or you're out right and you see
19:24
when you see this with validators falling out of the set yeah i don't know that you can say that i don't i don't
19:30
know that that's written anywhere that you're supposed to buy yourself into the set it's like
19:35
yeah no we'll take only
19:47
however outside of the cosmos that is the norm that's why it's proof of steak because your steak is on the line yeah
19:52
and the cosmos i think is the only one that deviates from that yeah that i'm aware of
19:58
but it is also true that a lot of networks let's say stargaze if you were in their test nets and prove that you
20:04
could run the nodes and you got all the way to mainnet they well it's locked so it's not yours
20:09
but you are self-staked enough to be in the set right so it's not
20:15
completely unheard of either for foundation-based chains to delegate their validates in the set regen did it
20:22
too from memory so granted like that's you do work up front
20:27
for free and then you get statements to set so that's one way of doing it and then after the genesis you can stake
20:33
yourself into the set which means that you're if you're staked enough to jump a few
20:38
slots you're a bit more robust to delegates to you right i think i think that's the notion right
20:43
but take take someone like oni they didn't buy themselves into a lot of sets they crowdsourced their way into a lot
20:50
of sets they yeah sure but then those navigators could flee to another validator and only
20:55
would drop out and the remaining delegators would get slightly rugged by that so
21:00
if you have enough stake to and there's a second point actually which is that if you have enough stake to get yourself
21:05
into the set again like ignoring the fact this is a lot of money
21:10
is difficult to do that minimum stake so so we as needle cast
21:17
we buy uh networks we believe in which at the moment is a small list we do actually
21:23
buy and we it's scattered around various places but we do self stake from various wallets
21:29
right and the reason that we are even breaking even in the bear market at the moment
21:35
really a lot of time is because of that with the return on the self-stake in staking rewards not in validated
21:42
commission and i've been thinking about this in terms of the economics of the bear market like that
21:48
you know that floor of okay maybe 100k is like extreme like 50k or you know whatever it would be on eth2
21:55
now right which is like i've already forgotten what how much you said it was surely like three two times
22:02
three what's the price of ether right now uh one and a half thousand so it's like fifty thousand dollars it's like fifty
22:08
thousand dollars fifty thousand dollars buy-in if you had a 50 000 buy-in on juno let's
22:14
say and you bought it you self-staked it all yourself like you you
22:19
funded it as a company that would be enough i think
22:25
to like at least a current inflation to actually break even and make a small profit i
22:30
would have thought so so there is an interesting thing about the economics of it there possibly with crowdsourcing versus actually
22:37
you know self-taking some amount like you yeah okay it's an upfront cost but
22:43
it's i guess again it depends your tax regime doesn't it for you now it would it would make sense right because australia it's
22:49
an asset so you almost as a company buy it put it on the imaginary shelf of my
22:55
crypto my company crypto and then king nodes go well we have in our warehouse as you know australian
23:02
government we have 18 18 000 junos or whatever worthy amount
23:07
is that you have to do to get in all racked up you know in a warehouse as is proper with our crypto
23:13
um looked over by topman and then that's that's how you then and
23:18
then that's like a substantial income stream isn't it yeah well actually it's funny you mentioned that because king
23:25
nodes actually make more money from self-stake than what they do from delegations
23:32
right so in fact exactly the same as needle cast are in the bear market which is that we
23:38
make more money from ourselves stake um okay that's really i just think that's
23:44
an interesting data point like obviously you have to the difficulty i suppose is that
23:49
at least one of those self state pools is earned for upfront work that was done for free ahead of time
23:56
uh and then you know when chain launches blah blah blah blah so it it's like it it's difficult if we had to
24:03
pay a pound value to sell stake into that set that would be more of a difficult question i think
24:08
but it is interesting how the economics of that thrash out i think and it is interesting by schulte says that the expectations are different in other
24:14
networks like um we've all been experimenting around with sweden aptos sweet
24:20
is that how you pronounce it what i call it i did until i heard him say it online
24:27
and i was like yeah sweet it is okay okay you're the boss sweet oh i guess is it from the latin
24:35
uh maybe i don't know i guess that would that be pronounced sweet in latin i think so absolutely
24:42
generous right i don't know aptos is a native american word i believe
24:48
about like it's called like the people or something i think
24:53
very lofty um yeah but like the expectation is anyway on those networks i think the the way
24:59
staking works is much closer to what shawty's describing right and it does seem like that's the case in a lot of
25:04
other networks i think for i think that it works out for cosmos
25:10
that self-stick isn't as much of a thing because it's so extensible i think for networks like aptos like near like
25:18
solana it does make more sense that your cell stick needs to be higher because
25:23
it's not extensible like cosmos is right so you're not expected to like
25:28
provide support for all these different networks in doing so so you need to be really bought into the network in order
25:33
to support it i think from like uh like that's why like if i had 32 week i
25:40
would spend a validator because why would they spend the validator right but i don't have 32e um similarly if i had enough
25:47
steak to you know do salon i probably would just because well it's going to sit there i could stake it with someone
25:52
or since i'm already in operator validators i might as well just operate my own validator and then get more
25:57
people in and stuff yeah i wonder if that's going to be more
26:03
the way things will go in future like the the successful networks will professionalize in that way in the sense
26:09
that people who can self-stake will predominantly become the validators because
26:15
it's essentially like any other kind of business income stream
26:20
which is as reliable as the tokenomics when averaged out over a longer period of time if the network has actual
26:27
utility and the the complicated thing right now is that i'm not sure any of us would like
26:33
put 50 000 or whatever against a highly speculative network that might not actually
26:40
have utility yet right um and even like okay i'm not gonna name any names but
26:46
there is also some networks that are coming along now that i think we're all quite like behind
26:51
where maybe their communication isn't good or whatever and you're kind of like
26:56
you know they're they're not made that yet or whatever and you're just like not getting any updates and things and you're like well they seem to have a
27:02
product it seems to work but is this is this team going to make it you know the software might be fine
27:08
um so yeah at that point it the the idea of self-staking with like cash money is
27:14
quite a speculative investment isn't it like beyond somewhat beyond speculativity it's actually
27:20
actively risky well and what's also interesting about that is that
27:26
one of the things i like about the way cosmos does it is the fact that it's not open like that because if it if it did
27:31
require buying in the start that means that you would at least for the u.s you would need to come in as a certified
27:37
investor which means you need more than a million dollars or blob a couple other criteria um
27:43
so like i couldn't be a validator right because i'm not technically a certified investor because i wouldn't be able to invest in these icos because it's legal
27:50
for me to do so if not so i just wouldn't be able to start on these networks for buying for that buy-in
27:57
one more layer so you can't buy into a ico unless you're a sophisticated investor is that
28:03
what you're saying in america that is correct technically correct yes it's like buying into it's like
28:09
investing in a private company technically you aren't supposed to really do that like they're not supposed
28:14
to let you do it unless you're a certified investor like they can be fined like you couldn't go to jail for
28:20
it but they would be fined for it i don't think it's like that in australia
28:25
i don't think it's like that in most places i didn't think it was like that in england either because i remember
28:31
that i remember when stargaze launched i was talking to meow about this
28:37
and it just seemed like loads of legal convocations like [ __ ] hell i mean like i'm pretty sure in england you just like
28:42
[ __ ] rock up if you've got the money you slapped it on the table you pays your money takes your choice you know no
28:48
worries and then i looked it up and i was completely [ __ ] wrong completely [ __ ] wrong dead [ __ ] wrong um
28:54
there are whole categories of investment you just can't get involved in um in the uk it's the same
29:00
uh unless you're basically a member of the ruling class you're just you're not [ __ ] allowed
29:07
and there are there are like situations in australia
29:12
where you need to be a sophisticated investor um you know you have to have a certain
29:18
amount of um assets or uh trading volume or
29:25
trading history or something like that to be able to use certain platforms i think or to be able to use like
29:31
futures trading or something like that um yeah exactly there's a whole bunch of things like that but but in the the one
29:37
thing is different is in the uk i don't think crypto is one of those things crypto is just seen as high risk [ __ ]
29:42
you know do whatever no one gives a [ __ ] about crypto they're like and go lose your money friend it's fine
29:49
if you make some we'll take a big chunk thank you yeah well yeah kind of i think i think
29:55
that it's it's just it doesn't involve um owning land or subjugating the working
30:01
class in the same way that the upper class understands they're not interested in it right now um but when they realize how much money
30:07
there is to be made i'm sure they will be interested in it well definitely the i think the government's view is
30:13
definitely lose your money if you want but should you make a large chunk we'll be knocking on your door very quickly
30:21
oh yeah sure but it's not it's not a government you well the reason why are you saying not the
30:26
government the elite haven't found a way to oppress the working class through crypto yet
30:32
well i don't know they've already yeah let's let's be honest all those bitcoins floating
30:38
around that are just like obviously obviously owned by like
30:43
okay i'm not gonna get let's not even get this [Laughter] there's a reason that the richest most
30:48
powerful people in the world like are able to like yes because they have a lot of money so yeah they have a lot of money and they
30:54
hedge that they can afford to yolo a lot of money into random speculative [ __ ] like bitcoin early doors and so that'll
31:00
be fine fyi i just did i've just done a calculation
31:06
the uh the buy-in for juno at the moment the the buy-in is 157
31:13
482.60 and that's because uh so s
31:19
soy two studio said it's 29 k juno at the moment lowest juno stakes now to make my occasion 29
31:26
436 well 37 juno to jump into the active set quite a few
31:33
all right math boy if you if you buy in with 160 grand
31:40
that dollars right that's united states dollars not too
31:48
um so if you jump in with that what are you gonna make in the next year
31:54
uh i i would be pretty good at answering this if i wasn't super certain on uh the
32:00
happening or whatever that's coming right yeah that's that's with that self-stake and the and the
32:08
the hardening coming i would estimate at that if the price of the token never
32:15
changed you'd be looking at probably about 50 000 in staking rewards over the next year given
32:23
the decline in the um you know the return from people staking so the staking rate will keep increasing
32:30
so apr will keep decreasing plus you've got your hardening yeah 30 to 50 grand or somewhere i'd say
32:39
yeah so then deduct running costs so if you're running an aws a lot if you're
32:46
running you're running at hepsner much more reasonable so you can well if you're running on hetzner your costs in
32:52
the year would probably be about 30 cents so yeah so actually you don't say yeah you know i
32:59
am wrong here aren't i because well i mean i'm wrong about the economics of it working out i mean that might be the
33:04
bear market talking well and i think this is the state where
33:10
if you're creating a business then you're probably hedging your bets against multiple networks for staking right that's kind of what we've seen
33:16
and yeah the buy-in might take a couple years to pay it back out but in that time like
33:23
he's assuming that the the price stays the same right yeah that's the joint network is because you assume it's going to go up
33:30
right so you're heading your bets really against going up not against your toes
33:35
yeah exactly yeah yeah so what are you saying loan shark the money buy into a set and
33:42
you can make fifty thousand dollars or you could be missing someone's very soon thirty thousand dollars
33:49
which me which what's the median salary for an engineer in the us these days
33:55
uh depending on experience 200 000 000 i think
34:01
how much a day you'll see i think it's 150 000 a year it's like the median hundred fifty thousand
34:06
dollars okay so at the moment being in crypto and doing that would be incredibly unprofitable
34:14
yeah uh well i mean no i mean if if you're talking about running a single
34:19
node with 160 grand of self stake that's about one hour's work a month
34:26
plus the um the the drama another 30 or 40 hours a month
34:31
that's good as i say you're just not accounting for the drama and so you could still be an engineer
34:38
you just we can drama it on um juno and uh be an engineer during the week
34:45
why there's more drama at the weekend but i mean to be honest if you're gonna self-stake 160 grand just pay someone [ __ ] five
34:52
percent don't worry about doing you know like who gives a [ __ ] it's five percent
34:59
yeah fair enough i don't know like i think the i i don't know the economics of this stuff is is i think pretty crazy
35:06
and it's one of those things where you can kind of go until this stabilizes into something where
35:13
you're making more in the bad times but you're making way [ __ ] less in the good times
35:21
i that's going to be the sign that the the whole eco is more is actually like mature enough to make it i think
35:28
because i didn't understand that at all what was that well you're making
35:36
more in the bad times and less in the good times by self-staking is that what you said no i think in relation to right
35:41
now right yeah yeah i think like the maturity of the ecosystems we measured in the fact like in the bad times we're
35:47
making more than we currently are in the bad times but in the good times we're making way less than we currently are
35:53
so like at the moment you make a year's income as a business
35:58
in like two months when there's a bull run oh and then you have to suffer the next 10. and then the
36:03
next 10 months you're like like like us right now we're losing money on some of the stuff we're running
36:09
blah blah blah our set setup but also like [Laughter] something something something aws
36:16
something something something [ __ ] not interested but but the point is like even if you're
36:22
running on the absolute cheapest stuff you could you wouldn't be like rolling in it right now
36:28
but that those economics like portray a system that's not mature right sure
36:34
i think if you're above 50 on a couple of good networks like you're still pretty comfortable as a
36:40
validator at the moment if you're not running on aws
36:48
like if you're above 50 so if i look up here so even on juno right
36:54
economically speaking so 220 so call it 230 000 right
37:00
junos so 230 k multiplied by we'll call it five bucks
37:07
so that's a stake of 1.6 million right 0.05
37:14
is 80 000 times that by we'll say an average of like 0.4
37:22
so 40 32 grand for a year that's
37:27
not bad money that'll run your node that'll make you [ __ ] some noodles to eat
37:35
yeah i guess it all comes back to whether you want to do it full-time as well doesn't it i think maybe
37:43
i mean but this is the conversation we're having the other week isn't it like how much
37:48
not on aws okay no but like how how many how many
37:54
networks should a validator validate that was the question we were talking about the other week right
37:59
well i mean yeah so how many can you comfortably do quite a few i think depending on
38:06
how the world runs that's actually again it's like whether that is good for decentralization but also whether that's even like the
38:12
because this is where cosmos is unique except maybe polka dot but even then i think unique in the sense of if you know
38:19
how to run cosmos nodes you can run a lot of networks oh for sure and and pretty cost
38:24
effectively the only ecosystem where that's true where you can horizontally scale your operation as a validator
38:30
quite easily but that feels like it's not the intention of the
38:36
original well but then but then interchange security so it is kind of the intention
38:41
of the authors of the software right which is weird to me because it's again it's just consolidation of power at the hands of a
38:48
few people i mean it doesn't feel like that in a bear market because what power
38:53
um but you know i mean like in the good times like that if you were if you were getting up on
38:59
networks now unable to suck up the l you would you know if every cosmos chain is lifted
39:06
by a new bull run in a year let's say and you could eat the loss until then as
39:11
a new node operator you just like like like your maths now let's say get into the
39:17
75th 70th percentile let's say 75th slot
39:22
on a bunch of networks that's got to be profitable i think run yeah even running a loss for
39:29
a year beforehand i'd say well i mean it depends on your like as a company your your policy on
39:36
how you manage your risk too like if you have um so say you're in a bear market
39:42
right you're just eating the cost of running your nodes and if you're just stacking your tokens instead of selling them
39:48
come come the bull market you'll be set you can you can offload some during a nice bull
39:54
market and then you make your profit for the year in the in the two months of bull market and then you're back to
40:00
eating loss again for like the next 10 months yeah
40:06
it's it's i don't know it's just the economics were pretty crazy like if coming from like
40:11
you know normal software consultancy or infrastructure work or anything like that where it's just so so clockwork predictable like
40:18
you know some of that stuff you even invoice like by bi-weekly or whatever i mean you do you do okay i don't want to
40:25
docs what you do now but uh day job you you invoice by weekly
40:30
don't you monthly there's more there's nothing okay my mistake well i mean it's another company
40:37
so that company does its invoicing monthly okay but yeah i don't know it's it's
40:43
it's pretty strange anyway um you know what else is strange uh for for those listening along in the in the chat null
40:50
has not seen this is spinal tap
40:55
null has not seen the film the iconic comedy
41:00
this is spinal tap and he does have have you seen that chilty i see i see you smirking like you you've seen it but
41:06
have you seen it i have seen it i do in fact know that there's only one place you can turn
41:12
it up to 11. is that where that came from that is where that comes from yeah yeah
41:19
oh [ __ ] it's a documentary a rockumentary if you will i'm not alone
41:26
the sounds and the smells of a rock and roll band on tour
41:32
the smells is that is that the description of it on like uh that's that's word for worthy
41:39
introduction yeah i saw this band at the uh purple banana
41:45
rock club don't look for it now it's not there anymore and they blew me away with their passion
41:50
their energy and their punctuality um it's it's it's just the best feel ever
41:57
are you reading reviews are you reading like online reviews is that what you're doing well me yeah
42:03
no that i'm just quoting i think it's a quote yeah i mean i wouldn't know i haven't seen it and i also don't like run around
42:10
memorizing quotes and now you know because this is the thing i don't even know how many times i've seen that film
42:15
like oh but also like the original i just watched a couple of clips earlier
42:22
that you don't watch out of context watch the film watch the it's me it's only an hour long it's like i mean what
42:27
i saw was pretty funny i'll probably watch it after this if i can smell it just just watch the whole thing as it's
42:33
intense be watched is it on youtube can i watch the whole thing on youtube no but it's also like it'll be on prime or
42:39
something like a quid like give them new money they're all still alive giving me whatever
42:45
the [ __ ] is a quid and fun fact christopher guest who plays uh niger
42:51
toughnell fans fans of source code that i've written will known as the niger toughness features in my unit test from
42:57
time to time um he he is christopher guest uh married to
43:03
jamie curtis weirdly he's also the fifth baron guest
43:08
he was a hereditary peer of the house of lords and campaign for lords reform in
43:13
the united kingdom basically he lived in canada and he only came back to the uk to vote in votes that were basically
43:19
abolishing hereditary peers from the house of lords uh because he was a hereditary peer like
43:25
as in his his family had land and [ __ ] and eventually they did get rid of her entrepreneurs and he's i guess now um
43:32
not appear in the house but he was just by birth despite being like a comedian
43:39
everything you say about like fun facts about the the english politics always sounds so
43:44
regal like so polished all his names oh because he was
43:49
yeah he was the baron hating guest i mean he wasn't
43:55
even if you're just in the house of lords or whatever you don't just get to be a baron that's not a thing we don't have any nobility in australia
44:01
because we're all convicts i mean it's probably better to have no nobility and ability is a really bad
44:06
thing to have it really sucks um um rama says are you implying nell's
44:13
caravan has those smells i think it has the size the sounds under smarts it has this
44:19
it has a good good sight it's got it's actually got a nice view on the outside it doesn't have any sounds
44:26
but it does have smells because my trash can is inside so
44:31
oh idols say best in show should be next for you as well that's another good film um and a mighty wind
44:38
mighty wind is also very good if you found smile tap and the work of kristen hayden guest or
44:44
christopher guest as you should probably correctly call him because i don't think he likes being referred to that's his now default peer title
44:51
what is it best in show is that the next show i think i think it got nominated for like an
44:56
academy award for best comedy or something like that it's just really really deadpan it's about a dog show
45:03
and it's there's a bunch of actors like quite famous actors in it and they're all just
45:08
very dead pan uh like it's like the thing of you know the door the owner is like the dog and
45:15
it's it's just is a very very very very dry comedy basically i mean that's kind of
45:22
like the ammo of of mockumentaries right where like they're making a bunch of jokes but they're acting like they're
45:27
not jokes like the show uh what we do in the shadows to die for
45:33
yeah man do you know it's actually a problem for barley we're talking about well i guess nathan bart nothing but it's not dry comedy it's not dry it's
45:41
very over the top isn't it i was watching i was watching that last night so
45:46
this is actually game of nodes is becoming a problem for me in that a lot of my time now has been spent
45:51
catching up on these freaking shows so i mean whilst they're all quality
45:56
except for mastering commander it's been um it's been you know very time consuming thank
46:02
you and how in the [ __ ] am i supposed to read these books it's all these books floating around now
46:09
yeah it's really inconvenient completely unrelated by the way uh
46:16
i'm meeting up with rama on this next week for a beer doxxed
46:22
well not really yeah you know and probably which part of which continent
46:29
doesn't everybody know that he's an aussie you can tell by the times that people are awake
46:35
not everybody [ __ ] stalks the times that people are awake now like oh you didn't breathe no
46:41
i mean not everybody's like oh no so and so can't be pot moss because they're awake at different times like what if
46:46
you just go and look at his twitter though and look at the country that it's registered oh i mean
46:52
okay that's just quite small fair enough i just didn't think of them well i mean i don't think it's like a
46:58
metric that has to be available but i think it's available by default when you fill it in so
47:05
rama says you'll be on the show at some point will you just okay
47:13
i think at this point like we had calamon but we have people who [ __ ] post on we've already made that
47:18
um yeah we made that thing so that should be i mean i could just send him the
47:23
invite link now he's like not this show
47:31
like hey the the pure business cast which is a mixture of like
47:36
trains niche niche economics of validation and then the films of christopher guest
47:43
now hold on now you can't leave out basement wolves that's important bison wolves hey i learned a great fact
47:51
about the film heat today which i would definitely put in a pub quiz in future is based on a true story
48:00
yeah what i know we're talking about the whole i need to make sure i know i'm thinking of the
48:06
right here hold up right that's the reaction that's the reason why you need what now
48:12
michael mann's heat al pacino robert de niro haven't seen it basically
48:18
what is that what are you talking about i'm kind of impressed i didn't i had no
48:24
idea that that was based on huh now hold on is this when you say it's
48:30
based on like a true story do you mean like when you squint a little bit you can kind of sort of see the right arcs or is
48:35
it actually like this happened and here's kind of a reenactment but dramatically so obviously the big shootout downtown like
48:42
did not happen you would have seen a news report but uh i don't know if i would say i don't know if you can say
48:48
that definitively i mean there have been like so many riots in la that for the most part
48:53
shootings in la just don't make the news all right so brief brief tangent god i know
49:00
jeff jeff manor's book burglar's guide to the city really really interesting if you're into um academic architecture and
49:08
also criminology and the combination of the two of them um it it's a book
49:13
primarily about the way that space is subverted by criminals and it basically came off he writes his blog about
49:20
architecture and it came off of an essay he wrote about how john mcclane in die hard subverts the nakatomi tower in a
49:28
way that the terrorists don't expect the terrorists are used to seeing architectural space as the design as the
49:34
building intended like you you're in the public area and you look around and there's a lift and stuff and john mcclane is like no no i'll go in the air
49:41
vent i'll go and lift i'll do whatever i need to do to get around this building and so he understands more about
49:46
architectural space rama how's it going uh good morning than the terrorists
49:52
understand about the space and that's why he's able to better them that's all the introduction you're going to get going to get bro
49:58
right and so jeff madore wrote this essay and he ties it also to the idf's tactics in the gaza strip where they
50:05
specifically uh that they literally read post-modern theory in their military academy and
50:10
when well the city is a construct we can deconstruct the city by literally just knocking our way through walls and then
50:16
if we see a sniper at the end of the street we'll just knock through a bunch of walls and then come up from the floor underneath them and so he wrote about
50:22
this an ale wiseman who's also a really interesting theorist in this area who's also part of the forensic
50:28
architect forensic architecture group that do some really interesting art stuff around it sounds really dark
50:35
but because it is dark but they do architectural analysis and human rights
50:41
watchdog stuff mixed with art um ao wiseman's research group um so them
50:48
and jefferson all these two sets of essays about the stuff anyway so the geoffman all went and wrote a book which is all about criminals and the city and
50:54
a lawyer focuses on la because of the number of bank robberies in la right because it's
51:01
apparently the world capital for it and at one point in the 90s there was literally a background whereas every 45
51:07
seconds on average something crazy it was like it's either 45 seconds or like 4 minutes 45
51:12
and the reason for it is that loads of banks in la were built near motorway
51:17
off-ramps because it's a really efficient place to put a bank to get near customers but at some point the
51:24
criminals worked out well you can literally just drive around the orbital come off and rob a bank and
51:29
then [ __ ] off and um yeah there's this whole interesting section about how
51:35
lapd tactics uh the doctrine of their police is so heavily based around helicopters for
51:40
this reason and they essentially adopt tactics from the us navy's helicopter carriers to
51:48
actually patrol and cover the area that they want to just like they were hunting for submarines and [ __ ] like is a really
51:53
interesting thesis the whole thing whether or not it's true or not i don't know but obviously the facts about the bank robbing stuff are true
52:00
and the the two films i think that specifically were inspired by that period of bankruptcy robbery were heat
52:08
and um [ __ ] what's the really exciting the one with the really weird second half with um keanu reeves with the surfers uh uh i
52:16
know this one the the break point break break yeah yeah yeah yeah so point breakers also based on
52:23
that period you know where they're knocking off smaller banks but they're just doing it repeatedly that's apparently like quite accurate for what
52:29
was happening in that period of time um fascinating i didn't know that so specifically henry he is based on uh
52:36
there was a an inspector whatever the americans call it i don't know and a famous thief in chicago one was
52:43
knocking off banks one was trying to hunt him the policeman spent most of his career trying to catch this guy
52:49
um and one night he walks in while on duty into a coffee diner and he sees the thief
52:56
and he sits down at a table with him and they have a coffee and then they go different ways their separate ways
53:01
and so the diner scene in heat is like the jumping off point for the entire story but basically that police officer
53:07
after he retired became a technical adviser to hollywood michael mann met him and they were shooting the [ __ ] on some
53:13
set he was just like let me tell you a story i was chasing this guy for this many years and we sat down and had a coffee and
53:20
it was super [ __ ] intense we realized we were basically just we were really similar we would have been friends you know we just we're just
53:27
two different we just different sides of the law but like basically how am i not saying this um
53:32
and so yeah the coffee doesn't say the dynasty is like that that's complete that that completely happened and so michael man
53:39
was like [ __ ] you could write a whole film based on that and he was like well let me tell you but obviously that happened like the 50s
53:45
or whatever so it's obviously brought up to the present but they were like you know obviously
53:50
there so to confirm they they sat down at the coffee shop after he'd retired from the force or while he still was
53:56
just why would he while he was still chasing him that's like some joker and batman type
54:02
of thing where the joker like gets batman is like that's like not even the fun release him let's keep this fun going
54:12
so soyutu studio says this is essential viewing now i am now aware i will watch
54:18
it i am very sorry that i haven't seen it i feel like rama what what was your take
54:24
on on heat versus point break there we go which which one's better in your opinion
54:29
i'm gonna also say i don't remember seeing it well point break's an incredible movie
54:36
i've seen point break i haven't seen hate yeah i've got to go point break just because uh
54:42
wow i could leverage saying this what's his name the blonde haired guy i told his name i'm gonna say i'll watch it
54:47
just for him patrick swayze that's the one i'll watch it just for him because he's just
54:54
it's he's in it he's right so he wins patrick swayze keanu reeves
54:59
gary busey huh such a strange phil that entire second half like i watched
55:06
that my wife hadn't seen it and uh during lockdown um i showed it to her she was like it's
55:13
like they had two movies they wanted to make and they just jam them together in like
55:18
an hour and 20 minutes in the movie just switches like as in you look down you look up and they've just changed the
55:24
real in the film and it's just a different film playing but with all the same actors well and there's like really poor
55:30
like editing across it like suddenly there are entire subjects that change i can't remember them offhand but like it
55:36
is not a clean cut suddenly they're like like i think he doesn't have a girlfriend anymore or maybe his
55:41
girlfriend something happens with her like it's so bizarre yeah it's a pretty weird film um
55:49
heat is obviously demonstrably the better piece of work but point break is
55:55
probably more fun on balance yeah i think objectively heat's better subjectively i like my break more
56:02
guys this this is not looking good for our notes so far i have
56:08
spinal tap best in show heat point break good has
56:14
absolutely nothing to do with the [ __ ] what we do this for anyway so hey
56:19
we brought up rama rama's like you know recently when i say recently i mean
56:25
recently that i've been seeing him actually in the last few months i'm sure he's been around longer but that's i've noticed rama in the last few
56:33
months i guess you would say on the twitter verse and um quite active in the
56:39
in like you know the dps scene um not so much validating but um you just say dpsc
56:46
yeah there's a whole scene now in cosmos it's the cosmos dps scene hashtag um
56:52
so man it's cool to have you up here uh and i know it's it's morning there for
56:58
you as well it's eight o'clock so usually like you don't you don't usually show up at
57:04
the stream until about eight o'clock because i don't know family and stuff or whatever but
57:10
also seven o'clock early for some people yes i'm normally up like six six thirty
57:15
i've got a wife and a two-year-old daughter two-year-old daughter normally wakes me up around 6 6 30. so
57:20
uh normally spend the morning with her and she normally heads out the door for daycare around 7 30. that's why i
57:27
normally miss the first half hour or so i have a two-year-old daughter named cosmos nodes
57:33
they they wake me up early and i spend the first part of the morning with them it's very sweet sorry it's nice you have
57:40
a good deal with them on thursdays that they don't bother you that's i don't get that yeah to be fair i've
57:46
been up there uh yeah so that's why i missed the show
57:51
because i just and i spent the morning with her rather than just being on my phone most of the time
57:56
yeah but you still always show up so we appreciate that you're one of our six one regular viewers make the whole show
58:03
yeah so i think so our regular viewers are um
58:08
rama soy to studio callum most of the time partial match idols that's
58:15
i think that's like usually the people i see in the chat oh um coin waters definitely yeah pretty the regular
58:22
cruise here thanks guys thanks for regularly watching us i know we talk a lot about a lot of [ __ ]
58:28
yeah the uh the regular crew get to find out that rama's actually a real person
58:33
and get doxed and not some criminal syndicate mastermind well to be fair i don't think you're
58:39
really doxxed only really doxxed as a real person
58:45
uh yeah as a face and the ceo raccoons
59:01
i i don't create drama with the raccoons man has a propensity for creating drama
59:07
for sure so tell us has there been like what's
59:13
what's been the main this week's like drama actually would it be 76 or
59:19
was that last week uh 76 is done so i don't think that's a big drama thing at the moment
59:25
uh [ __ ] it was though it was it was the drama yeah that was it was great
59:31
honestly like i think the initial drama was probably a bit uh around the way that uh it was
59:39
initially like publicized to the community it was like instead of saying this proposal is just
59:44
bad it was this proposal is bad and the proposal is worse um which is you know i try not to
59:51
uh you know attack individuals about proposals uh i myself have been attacked about
59:57
proposals that's just how it goes right it's uh similar with like the gelato situation right like when they asked for
1:00:03
incentives i was like let's not attack the proposal let's just base the proposal on its merit which is i don't
1:00:08
think that i have a product that warrants incentives and that's enough for a no vote right same thing with 76 uh is five percent
1:00:15
the right number probably not um did they go about it the right way probably not so it's a no vote right
1:00:22
there's sufficient enough there to judge the proposal we don't need to go on this uh you know week-long
1:00:28
argument about the proposal and you know 100 commission and all this stuff let's just say we have enough information to
1:00:34
vote it down so let's vote it down and move on i totally agree man i think i made a
1:00:39
tweet this week about you know my my love and hate of governments in that
1:00:45
you know i love that people have opinions and that people have different opinions
1:00:50
um but i hate like and i don't mind healthy debate as well like
1:00:56
you know considered healthy debate but oh my god i absolutely hate it when
1:01:02
people go on a rampage on social media and try and stuff their opinion down everybody's throat
1:01:08
and try to like slide into dms and try to get people to sway their their vote
1:01:14
so annoying um you know i think completely unnecessary i think say you peace and get out
1:01:20
but um yeah i think the discussion was really good um like uh probably after the third day there was some really good
1:01:27
constructive discussion like uh don and i had a bit of a spaces where we just kind of debated back and forth you
1:01:33
know whether five percent or one percent is the right number or should it be ten 10 i think that stuff's really healthy just
1:01:39
to kind of discuss and and uh you know throw out different ideas and potential
1:01:44
ways that you could improve the current system so on 76 so you know on this podcast
1:01:50
maybe not everybody knows what the hell we're talking about so do you just want to give us like a bit of a rundown of
1:01:55
what the proposal was and why people were upset yeah so there's a new validator or vc
1:02:01
that centered the ecosystem not relatively recently over the last few months um they nasdaq btc they
1:02:09
validate a number of chains from what i can see and i can't confirm it because the wallet ids are not linked
1:02:15
every chain that they validate on they've been putting the proposal up on that chain to increase minimum
1:02:20
commission to five percent uh they came to the hub did the same thing um and the the argument is that zero
1:02:28
percent commission validators provide little value and aren't incentivized to
1:02:33
be innovative to get delegations and they don't particip participate in governance
1:02:40
as a general rule i would agree um and their proposal was to increase it to
1:02:45
five percent that's the exact same template is on kava as an example they also validate on carver um and another
1:02:52
of a number of other chains they validate don't have the same proposals they all got rejected but
1:02:57
this isn't something that they've just come to the hub and done um it seems like it's a model that they're trying to
1:03:02
introduce across the board and um they haven't communicated it with anyone hasn't been on the cosmos forum
1:03:09
uh et cetera so um they run 100 commission validator so
1:03:14
when you kind of put this stuff on chain and say hey increase it five percent obviously people are going to look at
1:03:19
that and just attack that as a thing right because you're saying to increase it to five percent you're running 100
1:03:25
you know what's the benefit to the ecosystem and um why would anyone before that when you
1:03:30
you haven't discussed it there's uh there's nothing that you haven't shown any evidence that will increase increase
1:03:36
decentralization or increase uh uh activity within the validator set to
1:03:42
you know promote more delegations and stuff that is kind of baffling that they have a hundred percent
1:03:47
um validator and and uh putting up a proposal for a minimum wage this is itself the word visual self state it is
1:03:54
all self state yeah yeah so for me the and this is the discussion and part of the discussion
1:03:59
right for me if someone runs 100 commission and you're sitting at 150 in the the validator set and it's all self
1:04:07
state go for it like you you're not there's nothing scary about that i don't have a problem
1:04:13
with that at all to be honest yeah and then there's the discussion of uh
1:04:18
should we run 100 or should there be like a 99 and if you choose to run 100
1:04:25
then like 0.5 percent of that goes to the community pool why though i i don't understand why
1:04:31
because it because it well so the argument there is that we need to promote decentralization right by
1:04:37
running 100 commission your you can self-stake five million
1:04:43
and go towards the top of the set and then say finance and coinbase if we get
1:04:48
another three central exchanges doing that they have enough for power to stop the network
1:04:53
yeah but i mean so yeah so and so that's the whole thing
1:04:58
right the free market you can do whatever you want yeah i mean but let's take it let's take a cut back
1:05:04
off them so then they're not just continuously compounding these huge amounts of stake weight and we can actually get a little
1:05:10
bit back to do something with it in the community pool this was just a random idea that someone threw out by the way yeah i mean if if that's
1:05:17
if that's an opinion that they have then that should be it's it's all in or not in in my opinion
1:05:23
if you're gonna do that to someone who's self-staking a lot everyone should get that tax and do whatever with it so yeah
1:05:30
and and that could be a whole lot of penalized people for investing in an ecosystem you know and it's the same thing and
1:05:37
that's the whole thing right was if we're going to have a free market it needs to be a free market and that's across the board that means 100 percent
1:05:44
zero percent uh airbag airdrops kickbacks whatever you want to do you
1:05:50
can do it that's what a free market is yeah i mean i don't so i
1:05:55
yeah i don't entirely understand why they do 100 validators it doesn't really make much business sense to me if it's
1:06:02
all self-staked anyway like why not let other people get in and take some of their as a commission but
1:06:08
um right so
1:06:14
yeah unless unless they so the only reason i have 100 commissions in my opinion is money laundering
1:06:20
so yeah well if you if you have anonymous
1:06:25
wallets that you want to get the commission off you can create yourself a 100 commission um node
1:06:34
and then you anonymously stake to that node and then you get
1:06:39
the commission off at 100 so you reap the benefit of the commission without being attached to the wallet it's money
1:06:44
laundering 101 people come on all right so you create a you create another wallet and then so presumably
1:06:51
all your awards your stolen money or however you got this stuff that you want to launder is in wallets right so you
1:06:58
can just stake it to yourself and take 100 commission then you 100 benefit from that um from the apr without necessarily
1:07:07
being able to be yeah because the the validator wallet that's
1:07:13
taking the 100 commission is attached to a piece of infrastructure that's been paid for with a credit card
1:07:20
yeah yeah but that doesn't matter right the fact is is that you can't prove that they own the wallet that stake to it so
1:07:26
you take a hundred percent of the the um the return from that
1:07:32
token without being necessarily doxxed as the owner of the
1:07:37
wallet that's right right so you're right so i'm sorry i misunderstood i was like okay so you you
1:07:43
end up with the the money scot-free on the other side but you're saying you're saying you anon the wallet that's
1:07:49
doing the staking and then you're like oh i'm just running a validator collecting this yeah i'm just running a validator and this idiot with all this
1:07:56
money has staked to it and i'm taking all these apr so say say you've like run a website 100
1:08:04
validates you know i don't have 100 validator we are king nodes five percent across the board
1:08:11
i'm just saying you see a lot about 100 percent validation the economics 100
1:08:17
values you know i'm the economics guy i think about this well i'm taking a [ __ ] do you take a lot of [ __ ] sorry that's
1:08:24
that i'm not implying that you have some kind of digestive tract issue that would be rude and presumptive
1:08:31
no but like i don't know it seems quite obvious to me that that would be a good way to to money launder if someone was
1:08:36
going to do that there are there are actually some pretty compel good compelling reasons to have 100 in my opinion um one example is on secret
1:08:43
network you have the ultra network and they were going to create 100 validators so that people that staked
1:08:49
with their validator um they would get access to that
1:08:55
their app right so like it'd be like a subscription thing in that way if they did 100 then they would be able people
1:09:01
would be able to stake less in order to still get access right so they would need to take a hundred dollars they'd only need to stake ten dollars and for that ten
1:09:07
dollars that they have staked they'd suddenly have access to their 15 a month app or whatever it is i think it's a
1:09:13
really interesting compelling case for running dollars in general honestly is using us some method of like subscription service or like maybe
1:09:20
having someone as retainer maybe you can have someone's retainer by staking on their validator
1:09:25
well i think uh that's so notional kind of um does that i think like for
1:09:32
networks where they provide you know dev work and relays and stuff i think sometimes they just ask that they get a
1:09:39
stake to um get the commission off to help pay for it so
1:09:45
um yeah that's that's how it operates on kind of most chains right so juno and osmo as examples if you provide relaying
1:09:52
service or do you know development within the ecosystem uh the multi-sigs whoever
1:09:57
controls them will delegate some of the reserve fund right and then you can pay for that
1:10:02
infrastructure et cetera via commission that doesn't work if you run zero percent commission and therefore you probably don't get uh delegations from
1:10:09
the foundation the same thing will happen on the hub i can i haven't seen the document but i can almost guarantee
1:10:14
you that with the redelegation policy that will come in uh which i think is available tomorrow
1:10:20
if you run a zero percent commission validator you won't get a delegation from the interchange foundation because
1:10:25
what's the point other than getting you in the active set or keeping you in the active set the idea is to
1:10:32
help you with the funding of being in the active set for relaying etc
1:10:38
so this has come about right because jacob's been banging his drum for about three months on the uh
1:10:45
publicly yeah yeah yeah well very publicly for like the
1:10:50
last month or so um which i mean that's yeah jacob jacob
1:10:56
does that when he feels strongly about something he definitely takes it to twitter um
1:11:01
so on the yeah i was in the research on that and like to be honest he has a very compelling argument that it should have
1:11:08
been updated long ago and they admitted it right and it wouldn't have been updated if he probably didn't bang on
1:11:14
the door as hard right the the research that i put into the numbers like it's millions of dollars in
1:11:20
adam and like in the room in commission yeah yeah yeah so like
1:11:26
it's tens of millions of dollars that have gone out the door to validators to just sell
1:11:32
all of their commission that have huge delegations from the chain foundation right which is
1:11:37
fine that's the validator's prerogative to sell their commission uh but you know should we be doing that
1:11:43
to validators who don't contribute to the network right it's the same thing in juno i would feel just as strongly in juno if the deb fund was being
1:11:50
given to validators that provide zero value to the ecosystem we should be looking at getting that
1:11:56
updated too so i think it's it's great that it's being updated uh from what i hear the document's really good and it'll be
1:12:02
really favorable for community validators which will help a lot so positively interesting to see the
1:12:08
their policy um i think there's a few updates that need to be made on the juno um delegation
1:12:15
handbook from the dev fund um to you know be be a little bit more uh
1:12:21
inclusive but yeah i think there's across many networks there's
1:12:27
like lots of improvements that can be made on that front um picky battles that's what i'm yeah
1:12:32
very quickly yeah um
1:12:39
sorry sorry go go fray well i was going to say i was going to say given that we're also around about 1 out
1:12:46
of 10. i'm keeping an eye on the clock as is my custom um you should probably actually give you a chance to show
1:12:52
yourself rama and say like for those that obviously i you know hang out in our chat primarily they'll know
1:12:57
you as a [ __ ] poster on game of nodes but you're you work on a number of different projects don't you
1:13:05
within the crypto ecosystem within the cosmos and you like you you do a lot of like well your twitter storms involve a
1:13:12
lot of research right uh yeah so uh you know people seem to
1:13:17
think that i'm some underground uh paid shill or paid fudder uh the reality is i
1:13:22
have a nine to five that i'm a lead consultant in like a software development fund uh fund so software
1:13:28
development uh firm was the word i wanted um in in australia right so i lead kind of
1:13:35
projects from start to finish and i manage a team that implement the software that's my normal job and that's like
1:13:41
minimum 40 50 hours a week i have a wi-fi kid that i spend time with and then i do this crypto stuff for
1:13:46
fun on the side like that's that's me uh all started with like on mint scan on
1:13:51
juno like i could see all the cw20s that were being created uh on in the contract section and i was
1:13:58
like going and finding them and then going and finding their white papers and finding the good ones to then know like if i wanted to buy or sell the airdrop
1:14:04
and that's how i found like raccoon as an example was like that research and that stuff
1:14:09
uh i found like the primo rug super early um like before anyone else kind of posted it in discord and on twitter
1:14:17
and it kind of just grew from there and that's where like the research and you know the efforts that i put in recently kind of all came from was
1:14:23
i had an interest in juno and then that kind of expanded to osmo and you know the wash trading and
1:14:29
that sort of stuff it's i i just do it because i i want to have a better ecosystem and
1:14:34
i find it fun to kind of dive in and find this stuff across the various ecosystems and
1:14:41
and then the more recent discussions around governance are a lot harder because you know i like to be very factual about stuff and you can't be
1:14:47
factual when it's politics um so you know that that's it that's me i'm not affiliated with any project i
1:14:53
shall raccoon a lot because uh i was like a day one investor like robo and i
1:14:59
literally founded the community uh because we we invested in it early and we got to chill your bags man gotta
1:15:05
shield your bags um like yeah and you know like i'm super the devs are super nice i'm not sure if
1:15:11
you've spoken to them but they're super legit like super genuine dudes um and uh i think they've got a cool project it's
1:15:18
gambling so like i know a lot of people can't really get involved or you know promoted and stuff but
1:15:23
at the end of the day like they're good people good devs and that's why i promote it but in terms of affiliations
1:15:28
um i'm i've learned a lot from like notional um i'm like in their slack so i
1:15:34
can see how like crypto businesses and stuff operate uh which is really nice jake was like hey come in like learn
1:15:39
from our team and what we do um so i've been doing that for a little while now and like learning about the
1:15:44
ecosystem um i think it'll be cool to work in crypto but uh the the leap for me not being like a
1:15:51
hardcore dev is is pretty hard uh because it would be all like research or you know um documentation or
1:15:58
um that sort of stuff which is a little bit harder to kind of get funding for than if i was just an engineer i think
1:16:04
my uh my engineering days might be a little bit beyond me but you never know like i know javascript and i could understand and learn like
1:16:11
rust and stuff if i put my mind to it i think but it's just if i want to want to do that versus what i do now which is
1:16:16
more consulting yeah i mean i think my first encounter
1:16:22
actually in one of the telegram groups that i think notional were in and i i think at the time i was under
1:16:29
the impression you worked for emotional until you were like now i don't work for that
1:16:35
no like i'm in there and i i kind of help out like if they if they're pretty bad at communicating so like i just
1:16:40
try and jump in there and be like hey guys like make sure you follow up on this uh it's mainly just about learning how crypto projects and that sort of stuff
1:16:47
work how crypto businesses work uh what i've found is there's a lot to there's a lot of
1:16:52
improvements to be made from like what i do because my job is like business process improvement uh
1:16:58
communications project management so uh all of that stuff i can see there's a lot of areas of you know consulting and
1:17:04
process that can improve both the projects that we deliver and the businesses that deliver those projects
1:17:10
so um i think that's an area that i could look to move into and just need to find out how that would
1:17:16
operate you know across multiple project or development teams or projects
1:17:22
to help them improve i think even a lot of the mature mature bigger maybe development team
1:17:30
still
1:17:35
some over deliver and some under deliver let's say that would be a diplomatic way of putting it like i
1:17:41
think i i think there's a big tendency towards developer anarchy in crypto i think because there's
1:17:47
basically two types of developers in crypto i think we talked about this on a previous part which was just like it's
1:17:53
all the people who have burned out senior engineer burnouts like me who
1:17:58
end up managing yeah and she'll see who end up as basically engineering managers more like i i just want to code
1:18:05
and so we're like i think quite there's we can't i okay
1:18:13
and don't like managing and don't like being managed and so i think we have a
1:18:19
tendency towards the like ah you get good people you just all work together it's fine we all know what we're doing
1:18:25
it's totally fine the reality is we don't actually you do need some scaffolding but i think we're
1:18:31
quite stuck in our ways about that and then the other group of people are like literally zoomer cosmos devs like callum who are
1:18:39
very very good but i mean i think callum's unusual probably in the
1:18:44
uh docs a little bit but has has actually at least done a year of professional
1:18:49
software development in a workplace doing a nine to five right whereas i think there are quite a few devs who
1:18:56
literally their first gig is crypto and again uh they're kind of
1:19:01
wild talent but have maybe not experienced like the sublime frustration of having to go
1:19:08
to sprint retrospectives you know for a project that's two years old and
1:19:14
has the wheels have begun to fall off and everybody wants to kill each other and you know
1:19:19
like you know those projects that are kind of [ __ ] and you actually realize oh [ __ ] only like some attention to
1:19:25
process is gonna save this you know um which is
1:19:30
yeah maybe all the maybe all the crypto projects are still too young to have to worry about that but certainly
1:19:36
yeah i mean to a certain amount of summary that's kind of what happened to cosmos
1:19:42
originally right with and that's why there is like a big exodus from there just to say to break
1:19:49
down all the drama yeah it's a fair summary though as far as i can tell i mean
1:19:55
if somebody wants to come on the show and explain why that's wrong
1:20:00
you know yeah i think
1:20:07
i think that jack did that a little bit in the beginning didn't he we brought him on and he was like hold on here's some
1:20:13
drama to drop on you guys for a sec the way it was he said something about
1:20:20
the the lake tahoe retreat didn't he yeah you did yeah yeah yeah yeah i think
1:20:25
that's part of it yeah
1:20:31
what was the lake tahoe retreat because i don't remember what did he just he just said like oh
1:20:37
you know that's where he went on a retreat you can write you're right
1:20:42
i think the exact thing he said was if you were doing a book or if you're doing
1:20:47
like a it was like a fire festival about it or your documentary or whatever
1:20:53
you would start at the lake tahoe retreat like when we presumably that's like the
1:20:58
wheels have fallen off the lake tahoe retreats away we set our scene
1:21:03
you know the documentary comes in you're like why is everything in a mess and then like you know record scratch freeze
1:21:10
frame you cut to jack and he goes like i bet you're wondering how i got here and then
1:21:16
it kind of cuts back several years and he's like walking in for his first day at
1:21:22
tendermint or whatever barbara o'reilly plays oh yeah like a flashback movie
1:21:28
yeah like the origin story it's like actually you got it's the wolf of wall
1:21:34
street isn't that that's the setup isn't it where it goes from there it goes from the end and it goes to the back and it just cuts to his first day on wall
1:21:40
street that's actually what i've got in my head but yeah how does the wolf of wall street start he's like on his way to prison right or on his way out of
1:21:46
prison does he just crack doesn't he's like crash the helicopter and then it goes back to the
1:21:51
it's something like that isn't it and then and then it cut it cuts all the way back and he's like my first day on wall
1:21:56
street um so anyway on on what this podcast was going to be about
1:22:03
uh kujira e5 yeah even though uh code hands hasn't
1:22:09
uh hasn't come super hands we uh do you want to talk a little bit about
1:22:14
kujira anyway because i think they've um implemented some interesting
1:22:20
like ui ux uh things in the last couple of months
1:22:25
and also you know the the value prop on on kajira is different to every other network
1:22:31
um and then they've got the upcoming usk for for a stable so
1:22:38
i don't know [ __ ] about usk but i'm hoping someone here can like enlighten me so that you can enlighten our viewers
1:22:44
at the same time but starting on the ux
1:22:49
uh and the ui so recently um probably after listening to our
1:22:56
podcast i would say back to trains so probably after listening to our
1:23:01
podcast which seems to be happen like i've noticed that all of the big changes in kajira happen
1:23:09
right after we say something about something we don't like on on this podcast
1:23:14
so i have to believe that code hands is a viewer and makes these changes as a direct result of our
1:23:21
gripes wouldn't you agree it might be a stretch it might be
1:23:26
[Laughter] in any case the um so
1:23:31
the obviously like a big conversation or not an ongoing conversation
1:23:37
is the um the vp weight for nodes right so
1:23:43
invariably across networks the top 10 or even the top five have
1:23:49
just an op amount of weight um in vp and and that is just like
1:23:56
not great for the network in terms of um i don't want to say decentralization
1:24:02
because i think that is just a word that gets thrown around a lot um but in terms of protecting the network
1:24:09
from downtime because of networks uh because of operators going down like i don't think there's a huge
1:24:15
chance of collusion it makes no sense but in terms of the network going down
1:24:20
high vp is an issue especially if they accidentally happen to be like in this similar regions or or
1:24:28
in the same data center and those outages and that type of stuff so what um
1:24:34
kugera has done is they've implemented a new staking interface where
1:24:40
it is front and center in your face how much vote power
1:24:45
a validator has they don't make obvious the names of the validators and they also have a
1:24:53
slash count now off to the left so you can see like how out of whack
1:24:59
in the in the graph the um the vp is of the validator
1:25:04
and it you know color codes them in red orange green um and it's got like a equal
1:25:11
um an equal vote uh sort of column that you can see in the background to see sort of you know
1:25:18
if everybody was equal what it would be and then how out of whack these other ones are so
1:25:24
um i think that's like a pretty good way to to present the case
1:25:29
to the stakers um it might make a bit of sense to have
1:25:34
some sort of guidance at the top like um maybe explain the red and the orange
1:25:41
and the green um and how you can be benefited by
1:25:46
staking to the green ones rather than the red ones however you can't actually click on the red ones and stick to them
1:25:52
so i think the red and the orange you can't even stick to them in that particular interface so i see shields i just don't know
1:25:58
i can it takes me to the the ui that i can stick to them oh does it i
1:26:04
read that so blue it does i just read it as well that would have been super impressive i was
1:26:09
about to be like you did the reason they can't do that right like the the red ones they could
1:26:15
100 just disable the click through and or disable the state button if they're above x percent low power they've got
1:26:21
the threshold they want oh yeah i can click through i thought the other day that i couldn't it actually looks a little bit different to me today
1:26:27
you know what i actually agree i thought you couldn't either i wonder if there's some sort of complaints or something about it
1:26:33
yeah they're probably right like i don't think they have like a minimum commission or anything through governance that says you can or can't
1:26:38
stake so i think the the ui is fantastic that's the first time i saw the picture of it but i wasn't sure what it was this
1:26:44
is a great example of uh what i think a staking interface should look like uh
1:26:50
and i'd love to see something like this for other chains right hmm well just so you could visually
1:26:55
represent it back to this though i mean it's sort of back to the thing we're talking about with the it's either all the
1:27:01
free-for-all or it's not yeah there was some discussion a while ago which i think you know was leading leading the charge on a little bit which
1:27:08
was you know if you've already got like three percent of the network five percent network should you even be able to state that
1:27:14
validator and i think there's a pretty strong argument that [ __ ] no is the i
1:27:19
i get in trouble when i lead the charge on things though like i get passionate about things and then people
1:27:25
and delegate from me yeah well but but i look to that and you can i mean it's not
1:27:30
like impossible to just [ __ ] add an anti-handler that just says you get a tx in that says hey i want to stick with
1:27:37
this validator at the time of that block it had more than five percent network and drop
1:27:42
the tx the error should return a medium article on you know equalizing vote
1:27:51
yeah sorry i'm sorry delegates you've tried to submit you know error code error code please do some research
1:27:57
sift chain does this right so sift gene gives you an error if you try to delegate that's true
1:28:02
oh yeah they just changed it probably because of it i think these are probably watching the podcast exactly
1:28:08
and i think these are all great examples of experiments that we we do on smaller chains and then we take the good parts
1:28:14
of those and implement them on the whole shots fired at sift chains
1:28:20
all the time like experiments like
1:28:25
that is an experiment though right in terms of it's more that you said you call them a little a small chain
1:28:31
everything's a small chain mate they're they're all small chains unless you're the hub
1:28:37
i thought you're going to say that unless you're just going juno is the biggest experiment there is the next one's hua which is just the
1:28:43
meme experiment so who's my opinion
1:28:54
um yeah but we we you know that's the the cool thing right is sift chains you know got that maximum vote power thing
1:29:00
and they've put that in code uh if that works out really well um
1:29:06
use it in other chains uh probably not the hub because their free market types um but
1:29:12
i love it right i love that stiff chain was the first one to do it i would never have
1:29:17
thought sift chain would be the first one to do that being sift chain but
1:29:23
i just love that they just did it it's great well and like historically slipchain's foundation notes are like
1:29:29
what the top ten maybe so like it kind of flies in the face of
1:29:35
their own foundation nodes which just makes even more funny yeah i mean it's
1:29:41
it seems like counter-intuitive to the history of their node structure but
1:29:46
um back on back on kujira so i love this interface i wish more people would do
1:29:51
this type of thing