1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,320
And it was, oh, fuck me.

2
00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:04,200
It was, I love it.

3
00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:05,200
Avoidable.

4
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,720
Avoidable is how I'd fuck.

5
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:08,960
Like the start of this show.

6
00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:12,720
Well done.

7
00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:13,720
I can't have my...

8
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,360
Welcome to Game of Notes,

9
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,400
a weekly podcast on the cosmos

10
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,360
from independent validator teams.

11
00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,360
And despite knowing the format for this,

12
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:29,880
I still got rugged again.

13
00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:30,880
Well done.

14
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:31,880
Well played.

15
00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,880
Although you fucked up actually fucking starting the show.

16
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,040
So it was kind of an impotent...

17
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,040
It was kind of a...

18
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,040
It was sort of like a premature ejaculation of a rug.

19
00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,040
It was nothing rug.

20
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,040
It was kind of a...

21
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,040
It was kind of a...

22
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,040
It was kind of a premature ejaculation of a rug.

23
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,040
It was kind of a premature ejaculation of a rug.

24
00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,040
Nothing rug.

25
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,040
I was just so ecstatic and slaughtered without the rug

26
00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,040
that I just couldn't figure out how to fucking get the thing going.

27
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,040
Just clicking all the buttons at once?

28
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,040
There's so many good things in there.

29
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,040
There's so many good things in there.

30
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,040
I mean, at the end of the day, like...

31
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:12,040
Yeah, whatever.

32
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,040
It's not complicated to use the rug pool function

33
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,040
in the streaming software, and you still manage to fuck it up.

34
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,040
No, it is hard to get it in...

35
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:22,040
That's almost as good.

36
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,040
You can't get it in there with the subtle,

37
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,040
so you can't see me like rugging you.

38
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,040
So...

39
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,040
That's fair enough.

40
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,040
Okay, so...

41
00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,040
So, this episode, we got quite a few...

42
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,040
I guess a few things to talk about.

43
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,040
We've had quite a few questions in.

44
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:46,040
I guess the biggest ones are...

45
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,040
Well, the Osmosis Holt is the biggest thing.

46
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,040
Before we talk about that, though,

47
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,040
we always get asked whether we mind giving our opinions

48
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,040
as validators on things that are currently going on

49
00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,040
in the Cosmos on chains that we validate.

50
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,040
There is a live prop currently up on Juno.

51
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,040
Well, there's actually...

52
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,040
I guess there's two things currently being talked about.

53
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:13,040
One of which is the Subdow principles vote.

54
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,040
It just passed.

55
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,040
Was that last week?

56
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:18,040
Yeah.

57
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:19,040
Eighth.

58
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:20,040
Or was that today?

59
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,040
No, that was this morning.

60
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,040
That was this morning, wasn't it?

61
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,040
Or this morning, UTC?

62
00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,040
Because there was a Juno epoch and my phone went off.

63
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,040
I remember that.

64
00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,040
This says 9 o'clock yesterday, PM,

65
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,040
but I have no idea what time zone is this UTC.

66
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,040
I'm not sure if it's adjusted or not.

67
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,040
But anyway, recently.

68
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,040
So, I don't think it's up on chain yet,

69
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,040
but there's the first discussion about the first Subdow,

70
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,040
which is the Hack Juno Dow.

71
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,040
That's quite exciting from a Juno perspective.

72
00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,040
And there's pro...

73
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,040
I mean, do we have any thoughts on the Hack Juno Dow?

74
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:00,040
Where's all this being set up?

75
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,040
Is this on Dow-Dow?

76
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:03,040
Or what's happening?

77
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:04,040
What's the next steps on this?

78
00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,040
Where does this go?

79
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,040
Yeah.

80
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,040
So, I guess there'll be a signaling proposal on...

81
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,040
I should know.

82
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,040
It won't be a signaling proposal on chain.

83
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,040
It will be a proposal on chain to move some funds,

84
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,040
I would assume, to a Dow and Dow-Dow.

85
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,040
To a Dow and Dow-Dow.

86
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,040
Yeah.

87
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,040
So, it'll be a...

88
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,040
I think it's going to be a contract instantiation,

89
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:32,040
I thought, for the actual Subdow.

90
00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,040
This version was just basically signaling and saying,

91
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,040
hey, we want to be able to put funds towards these ideas.

92
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,040
Right?

93
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:38,040
And then now this next step is...

94
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,040
Yeah.

95
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,040
And all of the Subdow proposals were to instantiate the Dow,

96
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:45,040
as I thought.

97
00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,040
But I thought that's what Jake was saying.

98
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,040
I might have got it wrong.

99
00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,040
Maybe it was to move funds from Community Pool.

100
00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:57,040
But, so, no, no, it is to instantiate the contract

101
00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,040
because they're actually putting funds from the Dev Pool,

102
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,040
not the Community Pool.

103
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,040
For HackGina, anyway.

104
00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,040
Yeah, that makes sense, actually.

105
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:11,040
I didn't think the proposal was going to actually instantiate the contract.

106
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,040
This is just a text proposal, so there's nothing in here that's...

107
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,040
No, no, this...

108
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:20,040
So, the proposal that's on chain now is the one for the actual...

109
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,040
That's a signaling proposal to say that we want to do this.

110
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,040
Does everyone agree?

111
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,040
Right.

112
00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,040
And then the subsequent...

113
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,040
So, they broke them up.

114
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:29,040
It was going to be...

115
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:37,040
They were going to put the HackGina Dow and the Dev Dow in that original prop,

116
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,040
but then broke it up to just have a signaling prop to say this is what we want to do,

117
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,040
so it's not tied to those other two things,

118
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,040
and then separately do those other two sub-dow's.

119
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,040
And I think they can both be just contract...

120
00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,040
There's going to be a message that goes along with them

121
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,040
that does some things to do with that sub-dow.

122
00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,040
Cool.

123
00:04:58,040 --> 00:04:59,040
Yeah.

124
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,040
So, it is code as law.

125
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,040
This is also setting up for the other ones we talked about,

126
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,040
like infrastructure Dow with Jake when he was on those types of things, right?

127
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,040
Because that's something that's pretty exciting.

128
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,040
I like that idea.

129
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,040
Yeah.

130
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,040
It's definitely going to be a good handful of dow's.

131
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,040
I think there's four dow's.

132
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:21,040
Plan, there's marketing dow, HackGina Dow, Dev Dow, Infra Dow.

133
00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,040
Those are the first four.

134
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,040
So, there's already some sort of marketing dow.

135
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,040
I'm not sure if it's a core one there.

136
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:28,040
There was, right?

137
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,040
There is at least a semi-official one, yeah.

138
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,040
But I don't know if it's...

139
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,040
I'm not sure if it's part of that or something,

140
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,040
but I'm sure he was saying something about it.

141
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:38,040
Yeah.

142
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,040
I think Highlander is part of something.

143
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,040
I think it's a marketing dow.

144
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,040
Cool.

145
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,040
But I think that's going to be more formally established.

146
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:52,040
I would guess that that will be Wolf and Block kind of leading that up.

147
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:53,040
Yeah.

148
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:59,040
And then everybody who's currently in the core team will kind of be sort of moved,

149
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:04,040
shuffled into their respective subject matters.

150
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:05,040
Yeah.

151
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,040
So, Calum has finally showed up.

152
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:14,040
And I actually tweeted out, where's Calum?

153
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,040
What the hell, man?

154
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,040
Isn't this your calendar?

155
00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,040
Come on.

156
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:22,040
And yeah, so there's a marketing MS on Dow, Dow.

157
00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:23,040
Cool.

158
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,040
And yeah, I guess Highlander nodes.

159
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,040
He said so.

160
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,040
So, you want to talk about 2016?

161
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,040
You want to talk about the sponsorship?

162
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,040
So, it feels like, yeah, it feels like the Dow's thing isn't particularly controversial,

163
00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,040
especially like you said, we've been talking about the Infra Dow on here.

164
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:46,040
And I think we're enthusiastic about the things that I guess infrastructure providers can do

165
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,040
when working together in situations where it's things like RPCs or whatever,

166
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:56,040
where cooperation is the winning strategy or the dominant strategy or whatever.

167
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:57,040
Right.

168
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:03,040
So, but yeah, Prop26 is the one I think that's maybe more interesting, which is,

169
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:11,040
so obviously, Cosmoverse, I'm actually wearing the last Cosmoverse t-shirt.

170
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,040
Although it's very, very small, so you probably can't see it wherever it is.

171
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,040
Yeah.

172
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:21,040
Cosmoverse, very good conference.

173
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,040
The last one was not going to the next one,

174
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,040
because obviously I really value having all my fingers and toes,

175
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:33,040
but there's a prop basically to put up.

176
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,040
Hold on, you need to back up for a second there.

177
00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,040
One in your fingers and toes, what is this referencing?

178
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:44,040
Oh, the next Cosmoverse is in Median in Colombia, which I'm sure is quite likely.

179
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,040
Oh, right, right, right, right.

180
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,040
I remember now.

181
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,040
We had this discussion.

182
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:49,040
Yeah.

183
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,040
Yeah.

184
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:51,040
Thanks, Nevis Michael.

185
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,040
It's on screen, mate.

186
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,040
We know that I'm paranoid, right?

187
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,040
This has been well established, but just because I'm paranoid,

188
00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,040
just because you're paranoid doesn't mean I'm not out to get you, right?

189
00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,040
Like all your ledgers in your same fanny pack, right?

190
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,040
That's right.

191
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:07,040
That's right.

192
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,040
Let's see if you want one.

193
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,040
Yeah, exactly.

194
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,040
It's actually like a gun built style.

195
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,040
Oh, like the ammo is slugging.

196
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,040
I like to send shotgun shells.

197
00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:19,040
Yeah, yeah.

198
00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:24,040
Well, I thought as long as you put the fanny pack around your front,

199
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,040
then you can see it and nobody can nick from you, right?

200
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,040
See?

201
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,040
They can still check your nails out.

202
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,040
They should make those with the ledger logo right on the front too.

203
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,040
This is really obvious.

204
00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,040
This is bright.

205
00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,040
Ledger sponsored front fanny packs.

206
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,040
Because you wouldn't want to forget what was in there, right?

207
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:44,040
You wouldn't, right?

208
00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:45,040
Yeah, you want to advertise ledger.

209
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,040
Like that's a good, I'm safe.

210
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,040
Look at this.

211
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,040
Look at this fanny pack.

212
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,040
What's a bandoyler?

213
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,040
A bandolier.

214
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,040
I think that's a misspelling of bandolier.

215
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,040
Yeah.

216
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,040
Say bandoyler again.

217
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,040
Bandoyler.

218
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,040
Trust Callum to actually know what that is.

219
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:09,040
So fun fact, a fanny pack is just called a bum bag in England.

220
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,040
It's exactly the same.

221
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,040
Is that a trunk bag or something?

222
00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,040
Yeah, it's a bum bag.

223
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,040
Bumb bag.

224
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,040
I mean, I guess a fanny pack is effectively the same thing.

225
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,040
Just a bunch of words.

226
00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:25,040
Yeah, it's great close to an insult though, because obviously grot bag is an insult.

227
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,040
Fanny is such a fun word though.

228
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,040
You got it.

229
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,040
Yeah, I mean, that's a fanny pack.

230
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:32,040
Come on.

231
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:33,040
Fanny pack or bum bag?

232
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,040
Fanny pack with vagina in the UK.

233
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:36,040
Oh, does it?

234
00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:37,040
Well, that's even more.

235
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,040
So if you were in front, it's even more appropriate.

236
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,040
If you say fanny pack, people are like,

237
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,040
Yeah, they were in front with the ledger logo.

238
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,040
Well, like when America is like, are you sitting on your fanny?

239
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,040
It's a site.

240
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,040
What really?

241
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,040
Is that really what I didn't know that?

242
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,040
Yeah.

243
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,040
Just means I don't use the word fanny in typical conversation.

244
00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,040
So it's not much of a full bar, but you know, good to know.

245
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:04,040
But more than I could never last I used fanny in a conversation.

246
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,040
Wait, you're Australian.

247
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,040
You're not even American.

248
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,040
Yeah, we've got the other one.

249
00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,040
What are they called down there?

250
00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,040
Kent.

251
00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:21,040
That's like, you know, the Simpson joke where she's like, say the line.

252
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,040
Say the line.

253
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,040
Say the line.

254
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,040
God, little emoji.

255
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,040
All right.

256
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,040
So back to Median.

257
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,040
So we're in, yeah, we have.

258
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,040
So next Cosmoverse is in Median.

259
00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,040
Prop 26 is does Juno co-sponsor it?

260
00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,040
Yeah.

261
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,040
And the only controversial thing about this, I think is the sum of money.

262
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,040
It, well, 15, it was 15,000 Juno, which was.

263
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,040
More.

264
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,040
A few days ago.

265
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,040
It was more.

266
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,040
It was a lot more.

267
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:54,040
Whatever it was.

268
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,040
It was a covered world.

269
00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,040
And I think since this question got posed to us, I wonder if you think of Prop 26,

270
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,040
which I think got posed to us six days ago.

271
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,040
I think six days ago it was like 80 grand or whatever.

272
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:14,040
As of right now, at least as of June 8th, it's 54,000 USD, which seems quite reasonable

273
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,040
actually.

274
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:16,040
Yeah.

275
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:21,040
So I guess unfortunately, you hit me while they add them that they got is worthless.

276
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,040
And they're fucking well after.

277
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,040
And Osmo is ungettable at the moment.

278
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,040
It is ungettable.

279
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,040
That makes it, it should make it more valuable, right?

280
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:31,040
And also worthless.

281
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,040
Well, back to our thing from last week.

282
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,040
Yeah, we're to change.ruddy.

283
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:38,040
What is it?

284
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,040
It's just a very exclusive NFT.

285
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,040
It might as well be a fucking CW20 coin.

286
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:45,040
We'll get to that.

287
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,040
We'll get to that.

288
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,040
We'll get to that in a minute.

289
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,040
So, yeah, I guess there's two things about it.

290
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,040
Like what do we think of the value, the amount of money seems quite a bit.

291
00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:01,040
And also, I think actually in general, there's a question of like how much value there is

292
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,040
given to the Juno community from sponsoring these things in general.

293
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:09,040
I can kind of get on board with the, if you go with the Juno's a blue chip, want to support

294
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:10,040
the community.

295
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:11,040
Yeah.

296
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,040
You know, it is a community conference.

297
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,040
I guess it's developers, right?

298
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:23,040
So, so I think as a, as a sponsorship, you're not really gaining much traction in terms

299
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:28,040
of a user base because it's all current users that go to that, that go to Cosmo.

300
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:36,040
It's like, and people who are already, you know, brave enough to want to go to Medellin

301
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,040
who are a Cosmo note.

302
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:44,920
And secondly, like, I think for that type of money, like Juno should be the lead sponsor

303
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,040
is the only thing.

304
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,040
Yeah, I agree.

305
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,040
It is lead sponsor, isn't it for that money?

306
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,040
I have no idea.

307
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,040
No, like actually somewhere in that, in that proposal said like the costs are about 300,000

308
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,040
for the show.

309
00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:59,040
I see that.

310
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,040
I thought I just read that, but I mean, they do sell tickets.

311
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,040
The current cost of a 3D event is already exceeding 300,000.

312
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,040
This is like $54,000 in Juno.

313
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:13,040
So, depending on how many, what's going on there, I think that it is a, this is not,

314
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:14,040
I agree.

315
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,040
I totally agree with, with no, like this is not a acquisition play, right?

316
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,040
This isn't a marketing branding type of thing.

317
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,040
This is really giving back to say, for people who are already invested, this is something

318
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:28,040
to be able to, to be able to make sure that the conference goes well, which, you know,

319
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,040
this number doesn't actually doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

320
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,040
That was just trying to look at min scan because there was a couple other proposals that were

321
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,040
out recently where the numbers were like way ridiculous, but I'll see if I can remember

322
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,040
what the heck we were talking about.

323
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,040
Well, I guess those are 1 million Juno for the Terror Development Fund that, that was

324
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,040
big.

325
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:45,040
Yeah.

326
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,040
That's a lot.

327
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:47,040
I mean, yeah, exactly.

328
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,040
And things like that, those numbers are so large and those projects are so nebulous, like

329
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,040
we were just talking about before you got out.

330
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,040
And I guess what I'd say is like, is that a good value or not?

331
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,040
It might be like, depending on what comes in, but it might also be a total waste of time.

332
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,040
I think that's not so much like the, the, I think the delineation of those funds, but

333
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,040
it's actually the, how those funds get applied, right?

334
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,040
Which is probably more, more important.

335
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:12,040
I guess I mean, I feel a bit weird about, and I felt a bit weird about this in Prague

336
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,040
is the Juno is kind of a community chain.

337
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,040
We're not really like, we don't need to market in the same way as other chains.

338
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:24,040
Like whether it's a good use of community full funds to spend on an event, which is largely

339
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:29,040
devs because it's subsidizing developers.

340
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,040
Do you know what I mean?

341
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,040
It seems like a junkie for a fucking devs, to be honest.

342
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:46,040
Like looking, so 300 grand for a thousand attendees, like, yeah, that's a lot.

343
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,040
And, and do they sell tickets?

344
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:56,040
So I would have liked to have seen a budget with the, with the proposal to be honest.

345
00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:02,040
Like if it's public funds, I would have liked to have seen a link to an IPFS with a budget

346
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:09,040
to sort of, you know, give some context about where the $300,000 goes.

347
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:17,040
And there probably is some more information out there about like, you know, tickets and stuff for the, for the event.

348
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:25,040
But like looking at the one last year, you know, you went the fray, but I mean, like, it was a nice location, right?

349
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:31,040
And it was nice food and stuff all catered for your what $60 ticket or something.

350
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:38,040
It was like cheap as, but to me that's like, there was no, there was a weird thing where you could only get coffee like twice a day.

351
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:39,040
Really?

352
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,040
Okay.

353
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,040
Yeah, they like wheeled out this car.

354
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,040
They're like, you can have coffee now for this 10 minute window.

355
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,040
And then they fucking shut that shit away.

356
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:57,040
And it's like, if you want coffee now, you got to walk out of the venue down the road, go to the train station, go to the, the store outside the train station.

357
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,040
You just need to bring your own insulated fanny pack.

358
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,040
Like just fucking load up, just pour that thing in there and drink out of it all day.

359
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:12,040
I should have got like a needle cast travel mugs and then just like got a whole thermos, got a whole thermos for the plan.

360
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:19,040
Yeah. So what I guess what I'm saying is that it seems to me like, you know, they're asking all these chains to pay for a bit of a junk at the devs.

361
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,040
Yeah.

362
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:26,040
Which, which maybe makes sense if you're like a foundation running a, you know, project of your own.

363
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:39,040
But like, I feel a bit weird about Juno paying for something like that, given that who benefits mainly other ecosystem cosmos people and a few Juno devs.

364
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:44,040
And it felt a bit weird in Prague as well, if I'm honest, like, yeah.

365
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,040
I, I, Calvin just pointed something out in chat here about, about better spent on non cosmos conferences.

366
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,040
I totally agree with that.

367
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:57,040
Like even what's going on on, like I'm, we're headed to consensus here tomorrow for this conference in Austin.

368
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,040
And there's like, obviously a cosmos track and those types of things.

369
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:08,040
But in the grand scheme of what's going on in those talks, it would be great to have maybe not just Juno specific, but more non-cosmos specific type of marketing.

370
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:09,040
Out there.

371
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:18,040
Cause I think there's so many benefits to this ecosystem that I think it overlooked and people get so kind of maybe single track on, you know, things that they understand.

372
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,040
There's a lot of value in trying to open up the ecosystem.

373
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,040
Right.

374
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:36,040
And I think I totally agree that that I think acquisition is a much more valuable dollar per ROI return than say just funding devs to go to Median, which I think you might even get a thousand down there with this show.

375
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,040
I don't know.

376
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,040
Absolutely.

377
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,040
So like you look at consensus, right?

378
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:51,040
Consensus is a massive event and 40 grand or 50 grand or whatever it is when it comes out would get you like a lot of people at an event like that.

379
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,040
And then people would be, and it's people who don't know what it is.

380
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,040
They can come up and say, well, what the fuck is this?

381
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,040
You know, you go, well, it's the greatest thing ever, man.

382
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,040
And for the fuck of you, Ben?

383
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,040
Yeah, it's, it's terror, but better.

384
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,040
Maybe not the better.

385
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,040
We're going to work on that tagline.

386
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,040
Yeah, terror, but better.

387
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,040
Yeah, actually, let me look at the sponsors real quick.

388
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:30,040
I think you're totally right because like the corporate sponsors near near file coin, Galaxy digital, like, and even like this next level looks to say fish, sakefish is actually sponsoring a big, big structure crypto.com, Binance US is.

389
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:35,040
I'm guessing these lists are probably under 100,000 easily.

390
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,040
So I think I agree.

391
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,040
Like this would be a things like this, maybe not just this show.

392
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,040
I mean, obviously there's better shows, but I think that's a nice use for funds.

393
00:18:43,040 --> 00:19:00,040
In the comments, Juno.Love said, maybe fly a plane with a banner past a lunar conference, which reminded me of a joke that you sir for made earlier about the, about the osmosis security disclosure.

394
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:09,040
And we'll talk about osmosis in a minute, but the way the disclosure was handled.

395
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,040
Yeah, I was posting it straight to Reddit.

396
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:22,040
I think it's probably not far off flying a plane past a conference saying, you know, osmosis has a vulnerability off you go.

397
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:27,040
That's free as more like this free Osmo click the vulnerability.

398
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:28,040
Exactly.

399
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:39,040
So are you talking about that massive disclaimer that comes up on the screen when you visit for the first time that you quickly scroll past and click okay?

400
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,040
No.

401
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:41,040
Oh, okay.

402
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,040
There's a security disclosure.

403
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,040
What is in that disclosure?

404
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:51,040
The security vulnerability was first announced on Reddit.

405
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,040
Yeah, something just posted on Reddit basically.

406
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,040
It's like, I think I found a bug.

407
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,040
It's like, yeah, I can't like here you go.

408
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,040
See if you can also pull millions out of this.

409
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:07,040
So you can also figure out how to make $2 billion from $0.68.

410
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,040
Yeah.

411
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:13,040
So what else we got off track?

412
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:18,040
We were talking about the free.

413
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:19,040
Yeah.

414
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:24,040
So, so yeah, in conclusion, I think probably.

415
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:35,040
I don't know, maybe, maybe this is again something we can get tighter on whereas marketing down these things come along, but it kind of seems like we've got quite a big budget and we don't need to.

416
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:41,040
We shouldn't be doing the same thing that every other Cosmos is chain is doing for attention because we don't really need to.

417
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:49,040
And those chains will fund these events and these events will continue to happen because a lot of them are foundations that want to send their devs on a nice holiday.

418
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,040
Yeah.

419
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,040
And Gina doesn't need to do that.

420
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,040
Yeah.

421
00:20:54,040 --> 00:21:00,040
I think like areas like this, it's so easy to have something come up and just blow money at it without like thinking downstream.

422
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,040
But I mean, we're talking about June for 10, 20 years, right?

423
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,040
And so these, these things are important, right?

424
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,040
And where we spend it.

425
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:15,040
So having a having some sort of control over this, not just as a single vote because honestly votes like this, this is goes, this goes back to we've talked about this before.

426
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,040
But when you have so few proposals, something like this, some people just click.

427
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,040
Yes.

428
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,040
Oh, yeah, I want this to grow.

429
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:21,040
I want the value to grow.

430
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,040
I want to do a little bit of money to go outside and build.

431
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,040
Yeah, sure.

432
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,040
But we're not being strategic around that, right?

433
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,040
We're just being reactive.

434
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:39,040
So when something complex exists, like if you had a vote of this versus, hey, we want to build a marketing down and we want to build a budget for 2022 and we're going to pick strategically what shows we think we're going to add the most value to the ROI and blah, blah, blah, and have like a real strategy around it.

435
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:48,040
I think people would choose that over just randomly throwing $15,000 or I'm sorry, 15,000 Juneau or something because I mean, is it 15?

436
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,040
Is it 14?

437
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,040
Is it 30,000 Juneau?

438
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,040
What are we getting out of that?

439
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,040
Like there's not much in there.

440
00:21:54,040 --> 00:22:00,040
So I think this point and shoot type of point and shoot governance is a real problem.

441
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:07,040
And so I'm hoping with the Dow and those types of things, you start building a little bit more, a little bit more plan full around what the hell we're doing here, right?

442
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,040
I mean, it would be really cool.

443
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:19,040
I think if for the budgeting thing, we had the option of things like knapsack voting, which we've been talking about in the context of,

444
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,040
in the context of the Terry developer fund.

445
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:30,040
And I imagine I think she's also watched recently, rewatch the, the Tim Ruff garden lectures.

446
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:38,040
So if you're interested in what knapsack voting is, it's covered in the economic incentives for computer scientists course by Tim Ruff garden.

447
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:44,040
But it's a, I think we recommended that course on this show before several times.

448
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:55,040
But it's a participatory budgeting voting mechanism where you, let's say you have eight things that you could fund, but you only have like $100.

449
00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:04,040
And each one of them cost something between like, you know, $5 and 500, let's say, or $5 and 100, because otherwise you wouldn't be to fund it.

450
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,040
That's maths children.

451
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:16,040
So you don't get a vote on what things you want, you only get to vote on a combined basket of projects.

452
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:22,040
So it means that you have to, as a voter, essentially do all of your tradeoffs ahead of time.

453
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:30,040
It's like ranked choice voting, but in a situation where not all of the choices are equal in proportion, like they have their own weightings.

454
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:36,040
Whereas if you're voting for like political candidates or choices in just a set of votes, you can obviously rank them in a particular way.

455
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,040
So NAPSAC is really interesting for that.

456
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:43,040
And it's something we've been talking about a little bit like, oh, wouldn't it be great if we had NAPSAC, which we don't, sadly.

457
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,040
And maybe it will come to doubt out at some point.

458
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,040
There are doubt out people in the chat, although they're very busy.

459
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:57,040
Isn't a sub-dial like essentially NAPSAC voting?

460
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:10,040
Well, no, because you need to specify the total amount and then specify essentially a vector of all of the things that you want that would come in below that value.

461
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:15,040
And it's checked before you even see that as your vote.

462
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:23,040
So then you just get all of those and you basically, you go for the combined set that has the most votes.

463
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,040
So this obviously, there's ways you have to do it.

464
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:35,040
If you have like a three or five multi-sig, everybody can vote differently and then they need to have a problem.

465
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,040
Sorry, you had a good point there.

466
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,040
Sorry, you said it was literally going to derail it into a bunch of stupid shit.

467
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,040
Go ahead, please.

468
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:51,040
As I was going to say, it usually relies on a slightly bigger voting set than let's say a three or five multi-sig because you're relying on at least, let's say, two people landing on exactly the same set of things.

469
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,040
Because it's unordered.

470
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:54,040
It's just a basket.

471
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,040
So it is a mathematical set.

472
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,040
So they'll be equal even if they're in different orders.

473
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:07,040
But you need two people, I guess, at a minimum to land on the same basket in order for that vote to pass.

474
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,040
If you see what I mean?

475
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,040
So the threshold is slightly weird.

476
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,040
If you have very, very small numbers of voters, I think that's there.

477
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:23,040
I would be my only, I'm not 100% sure how you resolve that with the model. I have to go do some reading.

478
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,040
So basically it's like betting on fantasy sports but not.

479
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,040
Or instead of choosing a player.

480
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,040
Right, yeah.

481
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,040
It's like assembling a fantasy football team or whatever.

482
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,040
Right.

483
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,040
Or whatever your sport of choice is.

484
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:42,040
It's exactly like that where you have a set number and you can only assemble one group.

485
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:47,040
And everybody comes up with a slightly different group, which is the problem in this situation.

486
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:54,040
So that's why you have to like, it works obviously better when there's a certain number of things on the slate.

487
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,040
And they're kind of clearly marked and costs and benefits and stuff.

488
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,040
But I guess it's an interesting idea anyway, I think.

489
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,040
But...

490
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,040
Very, very good.

491
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,040
I finally worked out how to add stuff to the overlay.

492
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,040
I love it.

493
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:25,040
What I was going to stupidly interject with is I always love how, if it's all the UK or maybe just in England, the use of the word maths.

494
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,040
So in the US where you grew up, it's just math, right?

495
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:33,040
And maths really got introduced that with, if anybody heard of the look around you, kind of like parody.

496
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,040
You ever guys seen this?

497
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,040
Like the look around you?

498
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,040
Out of the UK, right?

499
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,040
It's a parody of Tomorrow's World.

500
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,040
Is it? Okay.

501
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,040
So we'll put a link in the show notes.

502
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,040
But look around you, it's hilarious.

503
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,040
And there's a maths episode they always loved, which is always my favorite.

504
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,040
So anyway, we'll talk about that later.

505
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,040
Look around you as a very...

506
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,040
Awesome.

507
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,040
Yeah, you could put...

508
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:02,040
I think especially in programming circles of a certain age, you could basically walk into a room and make a joke about synthesizer patella.

509
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,040
Everybody would go...

510
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,040
I love that.

511
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,040
Synthesizer patella.

512
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,040
These bloody kids, they come and they steal your synthesizer.

513
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,040
I love it.

514
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,040
I can make that joke. I'm a Asian descent. It's totally fine.

515
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,040
Although I think it was Richard Ayoade that makes the joke of the show.

516
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,040
Complicated.

517
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,040
I don't remember.

518
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,040
Anyway, we're not canceling anybody. It's a great show.

519
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,040
There's a mutual.

520
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,040
All right, shall we get to the topic of the day?

521
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,040
Top of the day.

522
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:39,040
We've already circled the trade of the topic of the day already, but it's the osmosis chainhold.

523
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:45,040
Could somebody who's smarter than me explain what happened?

524
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,040
I'm looking at Shultz here.

525
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,040
There's only one, which is valid here in this chat, right?

526
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,040
Shultz.

527
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,040
Okay, here we go.

528
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,040
So it's actually a pretty interesting exploit because...

529
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:03,040
So kind of the root cause of this was there was a massive refactor of osmosis.

530
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:08,040
Like 150,000 lines of change since the last version.

531
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,040
And somehow what ended up happening was if you...

532
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:20,040
A bug got instituted where if you put in tokens into a pool and then you pulled tokens out of a pool,

533
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,040
you'd get 50% more just for no reason.

534
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,040
There's a 50% multiplier on it.

535
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,040
So if you put them in and then took them out, you've suddenly had 150% of your tokens.

536
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,040
And then you've kept doing that again and again and again.

537
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,040
Does that scale up?

538
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,040
So any increase, decrease, like pull in, pull out,

539
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,040
or I thought there was something related to those balances not being equal or something.

540
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:49,040
There was some special situation or literally just in the UI, if I unbought it and pulled out, it worked.

541
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,040
Just put it in, pull it out, 50% more.

542
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,040
Without even bonding.

543
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,040
Just creating gams, just creating gams. So I just gam up, gam out.

544
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,040
Yep.

545
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,040
And so a lot of people, they just spent an hour doing that.

546
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:09,040
So there were a couple of instances where someone took like 60 cents and made it into like $80,000.

547
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:14,040
Because you know, you got 60 cents and then suddenly you've got 90 cents, then $1.35,

548
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,040
now you've got $2, $3, $4.50.

549
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,040
I'm like half bad as this is.

550
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,040
Half good.

551
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,040
And it just keeps going up and up and up.

552
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,040
And that's every 12 seconds of balance, right?

553
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:32,040
So I guess people, I guess, so how did this missed testing, right?

554
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:38,040
Because it's not a really common, I guess it would be common, right, to be able to pull in and pull out and be able to remove.

555
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,040
Yeah.

556
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,040
Did they test that, this version of Osmosis they would have had to, right?

557
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,040
They did, yeah.

558
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:50,040
So the problem is, so Osmosis, you can put tokens of defaults in two ways, right?

559
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:56,040
You can do it like where you do like 50% to 50-50, the quality can put them into a pool.

560
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,040
So like you do the full exchange or you can do one-sided pooling, right?

561
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,040
If you did one-sided pooling, it worked fine.

562
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,040
And that's the way a lot of people do it now.

563
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,040
They just put do one-sided.

564
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:11,040
It's for whenever you do a joint pooling that the bug happens.

565
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:16,040
And so there were a ton of unit tests and Russian testing around like single joints because that was more of a feature.

566
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,040
But around the like the full deposit, that's where it wasn't at.

567
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:26,040
I saw, I like math, what can I say?

568
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:32,040
So basically they were only testing new functionality, not existing functionality.

569
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,040
Like this with a refactor.

570
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:42,040
That seems pretty challenging when you have that much of a refactor, right?

571
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:47,040
Yeah, so I would say that was a pretty big mistake on that part.

572
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:57,040
I mean, the amount of lines of code of change, there's no way that could have been reviewed in the last like two months of code changes that happened.

573
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,040
I'm not going to say anything bad about the developers because developers are absolutely outstanding.

574
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,040
But I would say that was a poor decision.

575
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:13,040
Well, development and testing usually are kind of two separate worlds where there are testing strategy and development strategy might not necessarily be the same exact thing, right?

576
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,040
So, yeah.

577
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,040
Absolutely.

578
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:32,040
So we can definitely verify that two accounts of the four are willing to re-give the funds back because it's actually a validator that two people on a validator that are returning the funds.

579
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:41,040
So the other two individuals we don't know about, but we do know two are certainly going to return their funds or at least have publicly stated they will.

580
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:46,040
Do you think that's because they got code?

581
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,040
I don't know.

582
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,040
I think that it certainly would have been scary.

583
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,040
Like they would have needed to cash out through an exchange.

584
00:31:54,040 --> 00:32:03,040
So like, I wonder if they probably would have been found, they probably could have, you know, like bought a KYC one off like the black market or something who knows.

585
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,040
But either way, odds are they would have been found out.

586
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,040
They didn't run a validator in Osmosis.

587
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:15,040
So it's not like it was their validator wallet that was doing that.

588
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:21,040
But in this case, they might have heard about it via Reddit, which we're going to talk about here in a second, right?

589
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,040
So how that was disclosed.

590
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,040
But they heard about it, they tried it. It might have been just like, Hey, I got my personal wallet.

591
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,040
I'm going to give it a shot. Oh, shit. It works.

592
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,040
Next thing you know, you're doing this over and over and you got $2 million and you're like, Oh, shit, it works.

593
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,040
Right. You're in that situation.

594
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,040
And then you realize, Oh, shit, I should have done this with a burner account.

595
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:43,040
Like, I didn't realize where exactly we I should have thought ahead of this.

596
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:48,040
I just tried it with my personal wallet and oh, fuck my, my, you know, everything else associated with this.

597
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,040
Now I can exactly certain.

598
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:57,040
Now, oh, shit, I got to come clean on this. Right. And maybe, maybe the other two accounts are burner accounts for the same people because they go, Oh, shit, we have $2 million.

599
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:03,040
And now let's go. Hey, let's go create an account. Like, let's go build another mnemonic and like mnemonic and let's get moving on it. Right.

600
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,040
So let's spend an hour watching some tokens for a minute.

601
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,040
Yeah. This is a good conspiracy. Then you come out and then you come out and Twitter and be like, Hey, listen, no problem.

602
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,040
And then you there's $4 million sitting in the other two accounts that I have the other mnemonics for.

603
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,040
I mean, so here's like, here's what I would have done differently.

604
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,040
If I were one of the quarters, here's what I would have done.

605
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,040
I wouldn't have run it up to a $1 million before saying something.

606
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:35,040
Well, I mean, so I guess first of all, if I were trying to do this well, I don't know why they didn't just go through the secret network, right?

607
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,040
Get all the funds.

608
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,040
Go to secret, bridge over secret, and then poof, it's gone.

609
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:45,040
And then at some point send a different account and then withdraw from there. Boom. Done.

610
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,040
Hashtag money laundering. Right. Exactly.

611
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,040
Yeah.

612
00:33:51,040 --> 00:34:00,040
Yeah. So if you had done that, that's one way you could have gone away with it. That's how I would have gone.

613
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,040
There's way, I mean, there's ways to, yeah.

614
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:08,040
So and so how did who came out with this idea that it was only four accounts that that went through this process?

615
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:13,040
Was that was that coming from us most specifically? I heard that number, but I don't know where that number came from.

616
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:18,040
So I think Sonny was originally I did that, but I think that Joe Abbey has actually verified it.

617
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,040
So he's actually gone through and the way they were doing it was basically check what kind of transactions they did.

618
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,040
And if they're doing repeat join and exit, that's really easy to track.

619
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:33,040
Then you can track, you know, click obviously a ton of people in the hour or so that the exploit was available would have exited before.

620
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,040
If they only did it once, then that sucks.

621
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:42,040
But that's, I wouldn't consider that exploiting that some that they, it was, it was a bug and it happened.

622
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,040
If they do it 17 times, then you can track that pretty easily.

623
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,040
Right.

624
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,040
So that's good. Well, if Joe doesn't know that nobody knows, right?

625
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,040
So that's, that's good that he he tracked that. I'm guessing he's working on the other two as well.

626
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,040
I would guess so. Yeah. Well, so we know that the other two are in centralized exchanges right now.

627
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,040
Right.

628
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,040
The question is just who are they?

629
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:11,040
Right. Yeah. And I saw, I saw, I think I saw a tweet from, I feel Sonny or somebody else had said that they're talking to exchanges about what those accounts are.

630
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,040
And where those funds came from, et cetera.

631
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:22,040
Okay. So this is where, why the fuck not? Let's throw a spicy opinion in a spicy question.

632
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:27,040
Not anything. Cause I actually don't have an opinion on this really.

633
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,040
Given that code is law apparently.

634
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,040
Is that?

635
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:39,040
Well, it's something that, that Sonny did say very prominently about prop 16 and all of the fallout.

636
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:48,040
And the code was released and checked by the validator set for osmosis and ran in production.

637
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:54,040
Did the users running up those sums and then walking off with the money?

638
00:35:54,040 --> 00:36:01,040
Did they actually breach the terms of service of osmosis?

639
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:15,040
Do you actually have a leg to stand on to go and chase a centralized exchange and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, this money is whatever, you know?

640
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,040
My opinion, my opinion, this is theft.

641
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:29,040
So I don't agree with, I don't agree that there's a lot of, there's a lot of structure here in the regular world around the protection of mistakes.

642
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:36,040
And those mistakes, whether that's pricing or, you know, hey, this is on the website for $1, it's supposed to be $100,000.

643
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:41,040
And so for a very good walk off for a dollar because you're on the website, doesn't really work in the real world, right?

644
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:51,040
I think that there is, I think that there is some protection here to say that, that this is an exploit and it's not, and it's a, it's a defect.

645
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:56,040
And it was exploited to be able to turn it into a large sum of dollars.

646
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:05,040
And so I have really have no issue in A, somebody recognizing the fact that this is an exploit and it should not be what they're, what they're getting.

647
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:14,040
I don't necessarily think that depending on that, there's penalties associated to that, like meaning like you're going to go take back what beyond what that person stole within that.

648
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,040
But I do think that this is theft.

649
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,040
And so in my, my opinion at least, that this should be returned.

650
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:27,040
And it, and going back to the exchange and say, hey, this money is coming out. I mean, it is, it is coming out of people's pockets, right?

651
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:32,040
This is not like just funds coming out of the air, like this is coming out of LP, pools that are staking everything else.

652
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,040
I do think that that should be returned.

653
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:41,040
So my opinion is that it is, the code is law thing I get and I'm down, like I'm with you.

654
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:51,040
But when, when that is, when that is exploited to say, hey, just because somebody figured some issue out and we had a problem with it and they're there for fuck it, we have no rules.

655
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,040
I totally fucking go against that.

656
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,040
I don't think that's the right idea.

657
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,040
But also we're talking about end product users.

658
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:06,040
We're not talking about, you know, the devs fucked up and it's a, and it's an end product user that gets fucked by it.

659
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:11,040
So, meaning the end product user in the LPs that are paying for this X plays out, you mean?

660
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,040
Exactly. Yeah.

661
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:18,040
It's like the extra, you know, 0.5 doesn't appear out of fucking thin air. It's someone else's money.

662
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:23,040
What would we feel differently if it was the community pool?

663
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,040
No, I would not.

664
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,040
I would not feel different.

665
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,040
I don't say it doesn't matter where it comes from.

666
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:36,040
So, would you feel differently if it was only a multi-sig of the founders money?

667
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:37,040
No.

668
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:42,040
I wouldn't feel differently under any circumstances, even if it was CCN's money.

669
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,040
Why are you going to bring 16 into this?

670
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,040
Everything comes back to 16.

671
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,040
For what it's worth, I'm playing devil's advocate.

672
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,040
I think the money should be returned.

673
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,040
It sounds like you're trying to say it's an unadvertised feature.

674
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:05,040
I kind of do think that in terms of liability, actually, the liability does rest with the devs.

675
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,040
I think that's pretty cut and dry.

676
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,040
Well, let's back it for a second there.

677
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,040
Liability basically never is with the devs, ever.

678
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:22,040
Well, it's not with the devs who wrote the code technically because it's open source and it's just being run.

679
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:34,040
But if I as a user do a thing and it's not breaking the terms of service and it's not breaking any law,

680
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:39,040
and it's not...

681
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:43,040
Now, here's the bit where I think this makes it a bit more cut and dry in this case,

682
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,040
is that it's not necessarily malicious.

683
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:50,040
In this case, I think it's quite obvious that somebody is going to get hurt by it,

684
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,040
ultimately, and that's where I think it becomes more cut and dry.

685
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:59,040
But were that not the case, which is why I use the example of, let's say it's the foundation's money,

686
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,040
no real individual gets hurt, but you as a user find a thing.

687
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:07,040
You keep clicking the button and you keep getting money and you walk off into the sunset.

688
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,040
To me, that is a very different case.

689
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,040
That is a foundation release code, had a bug in it, unfortunate.

690
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,040
If you walk away and you never even knew about it,

691
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:23,040
that would be... If nobody particularly has come to harm except for the foundation,

692
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,040
that is a weirder case.

693
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,040
That's why I'm kind of interested.

694
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,040
But I still think the moral impetus is to return money if you've taken it by accident.

695
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:41,040
I just think that the blame here is interesting for a user who finds something the system lets them do.

696
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,040
But is the foundation not there to serve the community anyway?

697
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:51,040
Like it's effectively as good as community funds, the foundation, because it's there to...

698
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,040
Not a lot of chains, no.

699
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,040
Well, the foundation is there to better the blockchain, right?

700
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:02,040
To pay the people to further the blockchain.

701
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:10,040
I'm not going to get re-drawn into the all-cosmos chains, it's just a decentralized system.

702
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:23,040
So what about this? Would you be pissed if the foundation just pressed the wrong button one day and gave Tim $2 million?

703
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,040
And Tim's like, thanks, I'm going to the section.

704
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,040
It's okay, because you just do prop 21.

705
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,040
I feel like we've solved this problem.

706
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,040
Whoa, we better shut that up.

707
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:40,040
Hold on a second, that wasn't quite what we meant. Let's try that one more time.

708
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,040
Tim, Tim.

709
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:52,040
Look, there's only one character difference now. It's very difficult with human readable names, unlike there's very readable back 32s to be certain you're assuming it's the right person.

710
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,040
Or even more readable, Hicks.

711
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,040
How about this question from Shoi?

712
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:03,040
So he asks, going to authorities is basically putting your hands up and saying we're centralized, isn't it?

713
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:11,040
I don't think so. I think it's just a recognition that in our current state, we don't have all the tools we need to govern ourselves.

714
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,040
That's as far as it goes for me.

715
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:19,040
Maybe one day we'll be able to do things about it without bringing it to authorities, but obviously not to that point yet.

716
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,040
Maybe the soulbound NFTs will solve that.

717
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:34,040
But you just hit it on the head there where you said in our current state, we can't govern ourselves, which proved the state chains essentially can, right?

718
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,040
Because you're either on the longest chain or you're not.

719
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:43,040
There's a whole layer of social consensus around that, but they can govern themselves after a fashion.

720
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:47,040
They govern themselves with CCN?

721
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,040
Well, yeah, we did, actually.

722
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:54,040
So the only difference here is that there was no timeout and they'd be seed stuff across.

723
00:42:54,040 --> 00:43:07,040
So if there was jurisdiction, to use a police term, if there was jurisdiction to pull those funds out and make changes after it's outside of the osmosis universe, I bet you they would govern themselves.

724
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,040
But at some point, that jurisdiction ends.

725
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:19,040
And so then, yeah, I think then you're going to end up going back to other types of methods.

726
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,040
So I mean, is that not right?

727
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:31,040
I mean, in the junior world, that was pretty much a self-jurisdiction type structure and a self-police state type structure to be able to do that.

728
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,040
There was a lot of talk about whether to involve law enforcement and that type of thing.

729
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,040
There's a lot of concerns around that and those types of things.

730
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:42,040
But in this situation, those funds were gone, right? They're IBCed out and so now they're in exchange and now it's outside of jurisdiction.

731
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:52,040
But the same way, if that was still sitting in osmosis account and then the chain stopped, what conversation do you think that team would be having?

732
00:43:52,040 --> 00:44:02,040
Would they be having a, hey, maybe we could write a new genesis to be able to move these funds and blah, blah, blah and fix this problem and reverse?

733
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,040
Maybe that conversation would be coming up. I don't know.

734
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:13,040
So I don't think going to the authorities means that we're essentialized.

735
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:24,040
I think that means that it's now moved into a realm where it's in something that's regulated or can be regulated and can be something be done about the authorities.

736
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:33,040
It's no longer like at the chain side where we can do self-governance. It's on the exit side.

737
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:40,040
Yeah. I mean, that's a bridge between this world and the real world type of idea, right?

738
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:47,040
And those bridges, which I think here in the U.S., that's the points that they really want to be able to govern and build controls around.

739
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:55,040
But that's also the point where you could then start involving some others that are police and this and that, that they can have a little bit more control.

740
00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:05,040
So if somebody actually moves that to a CEX and sells off, you know, whatever it was, $2 million in Adam or whatever else and turns that into USD,

741
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:11,040
then you can get some law enforcement type of things to say, hey, these funds are stolen.

742
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:24,040
I think what would be very interesting is if the chain tried to do a rewrite and actually take funds out of a sex wallet.

743
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:30,040
That would be unprecedented awesomeness for some other chain for us, as opposed to the handle.

744
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,040
That would be some shit.

745
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,040
That would be some shit, right? Like then you start really, yeah.

746
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:40,040
Well, this is where the funds were taken out of this wallet. Imagine some fucking shit stolen at its start.

747
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,040
Let's push this as far as we can. Let's start.

748
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,040
Then I think Sam Kassler could write an even better obstacle.

749
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:55,040
Let's change the balance sheet of one of these CEXes by changing the structure. Yeah, that would be something, right?

750
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,040
But it is a really interesting question, isn't it?

751
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:05,040
Basically, like what is a jurisdiction and what are its rights and responsibilities?

752
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:15,040
Because I think what Juno has stumbled into in Proof of Stake is that chains and dowels are their own jurisdiction.

753
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:26,040
That is kind of real. If it decides to do a thing, it will sort of bodge its way into making it real.

754
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:36,040
That is interesting because it implies that the jurisdiction around a dowel is for a limited subset of situations,

755
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,040
just as real a jurisdiction as stuff in the real world.

756
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:47,040
Because if it can enforce it's worth... And this is... So the fun thing about everything around Prop 16 is obviously everybody who got legal advice,

757
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:53,040
got legal advice at the time and everybody's legal advice was some variant of, holy shit.

758
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,040
Wasn't my luck away from this.

759
00:46:55,040 --> 00:47:01,040
Mine was, what the fuck are you talking about? That was the next level of it.

760
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:09,040
I'm kind of reasonably happy talking about it now because I think a lot of the Prop 16 major drama has sort of died down.

761
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:15,040
But yeah, it was essentially like this is completely unprecedented. There's no risk free exit from this scenario.

762
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:20,040
In fact, you're already in a situation where who fucking knows.

763
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:25,040
It's find a way out basically.

764
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:32,040
But what's really interesting is obviously like, we're working on a social protocol at the moment and we are still...

765
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:40,040
The code's pretty much done and we're doing the legal dance at the moment with how we launch and how that works.

766
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:47,040
And it's the same team, right? And they kept up to date with all the stuff that happened in Juneau and everything.

767
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:56,040
And there... So some of the sub dowel stuff, we ran past our lawyers because we wanted to be like, look,

768
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:03,040
it doesn't really matter what Juneau thinks it's doing with this idea of dowels if we're all individually on the hook anyway.

769
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,040
Then it doesn't mean anything.

770
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:15,040
And within the context of nothing's guaranteed and it's only for our jurisdiction and none of it's been tested yet.

771
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:19,040
And you might still get completely fucked by this.

772
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:27,040
They were like, actually, you can make a reasonable argument that Dow is an entity like a corporation.

773
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:34,040
If you're engaging with them like a business, then they can delegate authority to you, but it's not really your...

774
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:39,040
You just work here. You just sweep... In my case, I just sweep the floors here, man.

775
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:40,040
I don't actually...

776
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,040
I'm the gardener.

777
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,040
Right.

778
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Yeah, exactly.

779
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:48,040
And that that might apply for anything like for a multi-sig on up.

780
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,040
Right. And that is fascinating.

781
00:48:51,040 --> 00:49:00,040
Like the idea that you genuinely can say, oh, we can probably make a reasonable guess that if a multi-sig is like a partnership or a small cooperative or something,

782
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,040
and then it goes all the way up to a dowel, it's like a much bigger thing.

783
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:15,040
That to be able to say, I am just acting as the responsible agent of this abstract digital entity, that's kind of fascinating.

784
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,040
And it's kind of brought us full circle the way back to Prop 25, I guess.

785
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:26,040
But yeah, wouldn't it be cool if Osmosis changed that balance?

786
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,040
That would be amazing.

787
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,040
Well, the dowel said, the dowel voted.

788
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,040
Hey, right.

789
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:38,040
I saw that... Juno.Love, let me actually bring this up on the show.

790
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,040
We all moved his reward, Juno, to Osmosis.

791
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,040
It's like crossing the county line in the Dukes of Hazard episode.

792
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,040
This is such an American beautiful reference.

793
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,040
I appreciate that, just so I can put a link to Dukes of Hazard in the show notes.

794
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,040
I appreciate it.

795
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:58,040
Asaf said, CEX will just hold Adam hostage until they would meet Maid Hole again.

796
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,040
Which is probably the case, but, you know...

797
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,040
Yeah.

798
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,040
So, funny.

799
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,040
Yeah.

800
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:15,040
What you were saying, the threat on the sub-dowels, and...

801
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:22,040
So, you were saying that they could be interpreted to be like operating a business, right?

802
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,040
And you're saying that...

803
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,040
You know...

804
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:38,040
You may be put in a position where you may need to pay tax on what's come into that business as an income, as a multi-city holder.

805
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,040
Is that what I was hearing?

806
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,040
No, it's kind of the opposite.

807
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:48,040
So, a bit concerned as an agent of a dev working on any of these projects.

808
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,040
You have to be involved in any number of different things on behalf of the dowel.

809
00:50:52,040 --> 00:51:05,040
And I think one of the more interesting things, and you'll notice as well now, working on Juno, is that, especially in the kind of pre-genesis set of people that are involved,

810
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,040
it was a relatively small number of people.

811
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,040
There's quite a lot of unknowns.

812
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:22,040
And the number of people who were very explicitly trusted outside of maybe the founding multi-sig was relatively small.

813
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:29,040
And actually, one of the biggest things that happened behind the scenes for the first few months of Juno, being a part of the core team,

814
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:34,040
was simply just actually not being somebody that would rug the project.

815
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,040
That was the valuable reason for being in the room.

816
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,040
Over and above dev contributions, any other thing, whatever.

817
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:47,040
There are lots of things that needed those contributions, but actually, it's the trustworthiness bit.

818
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:51,040
Yeah, so it's really hard to establish that.

819
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,040
Almost all of Core 2 is like docs, right?

820
00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:02,040
I don't think. None of us are like a non, I don't think.

821
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:11,040
Yeah, we're all A, relatively docs, and B, we've all mostly met each other face to face, like literally days after the chain launched.

822
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:21,040
So bringing that back to the point of this, which is that actually in that context, again, you can pretty reasonably make the argument that,

823
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:28,040
as an agent working on behalf of this chain, you really are essentially like a night watchman with a set of keys.

824
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,040
That's your job around here.

825
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:35,040
You have to lock up the safe at the end of the day and then go home for the night or whatever.

826
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,040
But it's not your money in the safe, it's somebody else's money.

827
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,040
Yeah, exactly.

828
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:45,040
I don't have that.

829
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:55,040
So I guess that was the concern, though, is that it might be able to be construed as like, you're getting the money and now it's yours and you're divvying it out.

830
00:52:55,040 --> 00:53:03,040
Whereas that's not really the case. You're acting on behalf of the community as a delegate.

831
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,040
Yeah, it's a big concern with sub-dows, right?

832
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:12,040
Because what's the point in delegating funds to sub-dows to like higher devs to expand the dev team?

833
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,040
Do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

834
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:20,040
If every individual person on the dev team or every individual company that's represented in the case of us,

835
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:28,040
and needlecast, and Envoy's, is suddenly responsible for just like divvying up that pool of money and paying tax on it.

836
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:32,040
That would be insane. It would completely destroy the point of the entire exercise.

837
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,040
And it is a concern.

838
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,040
But yeah, I don't know.

839
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:45,040
It's all very interesting and I guess we're going to have to come up with a solution to this like every jurisdiction will.

840
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:56,040
But I kind of, you know, self-plug wrote a blog post on this called Jurisdiction Zero about the rights and responsibilities of the Dow jurisdiction,

841
00:53:56,040 --> 00:54:09,040
which is based on our thinking around the sub-dows and also some of the stuff we've been doing on how social, around how do you encourage a community to moderate itself?

842
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:16,040
Short answer. If you've worked it out, please get in touch at Fray Needlecast on Twitter.

843
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:17,040
Please tell me.

844
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:24,040
I currently seven days into going totally insane rewriting the moderation handlers.

845
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,040
Please tell me.

846
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:35,040
Yeah, if anybody's got any great ideas, then I'm all ears. I'm Andrew Maher at this point.

847
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:40,040
So can we talk about fire steak?

848
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:46,040
Well, yeah. Well, actually, I think like in the context of fire steak, I think.

849
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,040
Set the context of what happened with fire steak.

850
00:54:49,040 --> 00:55:01,040
Well, what I was going to say was I think a better conversation to be had is around the integrity of validators, I guess.

851
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:05,040
Don't blow it up. I didn't do that, but that was perfect.

852
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:13,040
Don't blow it up. Don't blow it up into a big thing. Let's talk about fire steak first. What was the background of why we're bringing them up?

853
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:30,040
Well, okay. So fire steak have, I'm not sure if they just owned up to it on Twitter or if they were found out beforehand, but fire steak are involved as a participant in exploiting the bug, I guess, on the osmosis.

854
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:40,040
Within that hour that it was available. So I think they've turned a relatively small amount of osmo into a relatively large amount of osmo somewhere.

855
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:50,040
I think they stated $1.6 million worth on on the 226 $226 turn into $2 million.

856
00:55:50,040 --> 00:56:01,040
Okay, $2 million. So, but they have said that they will return it, whether or not that's because they were reasonably certain that they would be found out or not.

857
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:07,040
Here's another question. So that's the context of the conversation, I guess.

858
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:25,040
So, you know, it's, it comes down to, well, I mean, it could be said that, you know, they were caught up in the moment, potentially, and weren't really thinking about where the money was coming from, just that they were getting the money.

859
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:47,040
And, you know, if you, so as a validator, having having integrity as a validator and having the chain as your first priority as a validator and the integrity of the chain, and making sure that everybody who providing security to the users of the chain, right.

860
00:56:47,040 --> 00:57:14,040
So the right move would have been to once noticed that it the vulnerability is real, the right move would have been to not click the thing again and go to discord and the devs and immediately tell everybody loudly and get the chain shut down immediately, not keep clicking the button for an hour.

861
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:28,040
I mean, while I agree in theory, does it change that they don't actually validate for osmosis, right. Sure, they're validators in general. They are a validator and they should know better than to do that.

862
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:44,040
They're a validator for 14 cosmos chains. 14. I agree. I'm just saying that like the conversation changes a little bit whenever it's a completely different chain, right. Like, yeah, it's still the ecosystem.

863
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:59,040
I, in my opinion, they very well, like, it's completely unethical what they did, obviously. So say if you live in Switzerland where they are very environmentally conscious, right.

864
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:06,040
And you want to rape and pillage the, the countryside for coal, right.

865
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,040
We leave the raping out of it, please.

866
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:17,040
And next door, focus on the pillaging door is like, I don't know, another country that's run by a dictator or something and doesn't have environmental laws.

867
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:30,040
Italy, you can go and rape and pillage the countryside for your coal. Does it make it right to do so? Should you go and do it?

868
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:42,040
I guess, I see what you're saying. I guess my point is more like, it depends on how you take your responsibility as a validator, right.

869
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:54,040
If it's just a job, then my job ends at this new chain, right. And with new chain, I'm just a user. And so I'm going to act like a user and do things that I can do as a user.

870
00:58:54,040 --> 00:59:01,040
I'm no longer within the jurisdiction of me doing my job of securing the chain. Now it's out of my responsibility.

871
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:10,040
If you're a cop in Australia and then you go to the US, you don't suddenly have the responsibility in the US to uphold the law, right.

872
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:14,040
I'm pretty sure I've seen that film. I'm pretty sure I've seen that film.

873
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:25,040
I take your point, but it also comes down to who do you want as a validator and the integrity as a validator.

874
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:35,040
So, you know, as a validator validating other chains, you should not have it in you to exploit a vulnerability on another chain.

875
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:52,040
And if you do, should you be trusted on the other chains? So I think it is a detriment to your, you know, public image in doing so.

876
00:59:52,040 --> 01:00:11,040
So let's just say that, you know, if this were Juno and somebody didn't responsibly disclose it in that situation, I as one of the dance would find out where they lived and I would get on the train and I would go to where they live and I would knock on their front door and then

877
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:22,040
What if Frey, what if they lived in Medellin? You know, boys are we boys.

878
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:27,040
I would call them nicely. Please pick up the phone. I'm not coming to see you.

879
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:35,040
I'm not coming to see you, but I'm really dissapointed. I'm just disappointed.

880
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:45,040
I think we're disappointed. I absolutely agree. No, I'm just kind of playing double as advocate there.

881
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:57,040
From my perspective, I see my role as a validator as even though I'm only on, you know, half the chains or whatever, I see it as like my responsibility to protect all of them.

882
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:14,040
If I see an exploit, the first thing, like whether I'm on the chain or not, the first thing I'm going to do is to find a different story.

883
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:18,040
Yeah, yeah, there's a hospital. Exactly.

884
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:28,040
A different story if it's unlike, you know, Solana. Well, I do agree that that's completely different. It's not comparing like a like is it?

885
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:31,040
That's affluence of the oranges though. You can't do that.

886
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:38,040
And Solana, you immediately post it to Reddit and you encourage other users.

887
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:42,040
Hey guys, I don't think this is quite working, but you know, because somebody else.

888
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:48,040
I'm supposed to get 3x back every time I press the button. Let's all press it together.

889
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:55,040
Livestream. I misspoke early. I said 14 chains are an 11 chains. So that was my bad. I just missed out on the rails.

890
01:01:55,040 --> 01:02:08,040
I do think that osmosis is also slightly different. So if there was a Desmos or meme chain exploit and those types of things like like those are kind of smaller dollars and those types of things.

891
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:24,040
Like there's a little bit different there in osmosis pool one, when you're talking about Osmo, Adam, there's a significant amount of Cosmos ecosystem consumer value in that right.

892
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:37,040
And and also the way that they phrased it, I thought in the tweet, they said, if you guys remember, it said something along the lines of two members of the fire steak team started to testing to see if the bug existed.

893
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:46,040
And testing grew into a temporary lapse of good judgment and blah, blah, blah. Right. So they're kind of pushing to say, Hey, this wasn't this wasn't fire steak as an organization.

894
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:50,040
This is a fire steak team. I don't know how big that team is. I'm looking at their website. I don't know how big that team is.

895
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,040
And I don't really know too much about that group, which is whatever.

896
01:02:53,040 --> 01:03:01,040
It probably is too. But but that idea like to say, Hey, we're pushing it down. It's two members had bad adjustment.

897
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:08,040
And I think somebody had a great tweet around the find that they say like, you never know if you if you find exploit until you get to the first million dollars worth of exploit, right?

898
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:14,040
You never know. Not sure if this really works. Let me double click this until I get to at least one million to see if this is a problem and then blah, blah, blah.

899
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:19,040
So I do think not be sure that the exploit works until you exit and you're in a limbo.

900
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:22,040
It's a beautiful tweet. That's a beautiful tweet. I love it.

901
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:33,040
So I think that I think that as a validator and and validators, regardless of chain, I think we all want the cosmos ecosystem to be successful.

902
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:39,040
Right. Like, I don't want to. We only validate for a few chains. Like, we're not in osmosis anymore.

903
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:43,040
I clearly don't want that chain to fail. But we want that to be successful.

904
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:51,040
We're not in. We're not in Desmos. We're not in Bicana. We're not in key chain. We're not in, you know, in Gravity Bridge.

905
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,040
But boy, do I want those chains to be successful, right?

906
01:03:54,040 --> 01:04:11,040
So the idea that you have a validator that that that those that income is based on, I think, rising tide raises all boats type of thing that you want this ecosystem to be successful to have team members that that say, hey, I'm going to go pull two million dollars out of this because of this stupid bug and fuck them.

907
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:20,040
That that is that's a serious loss in judgment. And I give him props for coming back and saying whether whether or not they got caught or not. Who knows, right?

908
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:26,040
We're not maybe that'll come out in the book when somebody writes it from the osmosis team right about what the hell happened in here.

909
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:29,040
So Sunny did tweet out that they came forward without being caught first.

910
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:36,040
Sure. I mean, honestly, if if I was caught doing this, I would say, hey, Sunny, tell him that we came forward.

911
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,040
Right. Like, that would be something you want to be able to do or some sort of situation like that.

912
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:44,040
Well, so Javi was probably literally minutes away. He's probably outside their house.

913
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:49,040
I got a media. I got a medium post full of references and that's probably why he's not on tonight.

914
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:55,040
Because he's exactly he's outside their house wherever the hell they live with Winston straining on the leash.

915
01:04:55,040 --> 01:05:04,040
75 75 of those like bottom of the page references of like details of Excel spreadsheets showing exactly how you fuck this over.

916
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:10,040
And yeah, yeah, it's just so impaled to get into daughter as soon as anything happens.

917
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:11,040
You just like I must.

918
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,040
He's really good at that. It's amazing.

919
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,040
And he's a detail guy.

920
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:20,040
I'm glad he's a success. So I mean, I'm glad they came forward.

921
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:28,040
I'm glad that that whether that was whether that was, you know, by they had to or whether, you know, it was guilt coming forward.

922
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,040
I'm glad and those types of things.

923
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:34,040
Yeah. Yeah. Probably they kind of push it down and say it says some team members and those types of things.

924
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:40,040
But I would hope that that, you know, I don't know if every validator would approach this the same way.

925
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,040
I don't know if you guys agree with that or not.

926
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:47,040
I want to chime in a little bit here to what soy said.

927
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,040
He said that this is a sipp chain down multi-sig frothing osmosis.

928
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:54,040
And I think that's a little more inflammatory than it needs to be.

929
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:57,040
Yeah, he might be on the multi-sig.

930
01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:02,040
But from what I've heard, it doesn't like it doesn't take much to be on the sipp chain multi-sig.

931
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:04,040
Shots fired.

932
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:05,040
Wow.

933
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:06,040
Jesus.

934
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,040
Like a lot of his days.

935
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:16,040
A heartbeat in eight bucks and you're on the sift multi-chain recording the Schultz 11 or 5.

936
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:25,040
My point stands though that I don't think that like they thought, oh, this is our opportunity to like make sipp chain shine.

937
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:32,040
Right. I think it's just, I think it probably was still absent judgment, not a way to like bring down a competitor.

938
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:35,040
Yeah.

939
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:42,040
I don't know. I think this whole situation, I mean, I don't know, maybe it's part of growing up and those types of things.

940
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:47,040
I'm hoping that the osmosis team with this, like this seems to be kind of the way you described it.

941
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,040
At least Schultz seems to be a pretty basic bug.

942
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:57,040
This does not seem to be like some massive type of, you know.

943
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:00,040
Yeah. I mean, it wasn't like a smart contract exploit.

944
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:13,040
Like when it was found, they had like the code that had the issue found like isolated off almost immediately because it is just kind of like a simple, simple problem.

945
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:14,040
Yeah.

946
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,040
So I like to throw a question at work again.

947
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:18,040
We're sort of past the hour mark.

948
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,040
So I think it's time to ask.

949
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,040
Ask a game of nodes.

950
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,040
Let's go late.

951
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:25,040
We're all here.

952
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:30,040
We got a question, we got a question which was related to the cosmos.

953
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:40,040
The Ketzer on Twitter said, do validators on cosmos have too much power?

954
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:41,040
What does that mean?

955
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:45,040
Well, I think they're saying like is in the fact that they can hold the chain.

956
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:49,040
So I mean, I guess they're not just saying cosmos.

957
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:52,040
They're really saying proof of stake more generally.

958
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:56,040
That 100 teams can decide to hold a chain.

959
01:07:56,040 --> 01:08:02,040
I think in this case is kind of back to the checks and balances thing that we were talking about previously with prop 16.

960
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:10,040
Isn't that I mean, in this case, holding the chain was the right course of action.

961
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:16,040
Well, I thought it was funny that as most as discord were or I think the large dragon was the one who said, hey, halt everything.

962
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:20,040
It was a really short message like, hey, fucking halt now.

963
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:25,040
Right. That was it. Everybody started halting and then somebody finally went, did he get hacked?

964
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,040
Like, are we sure that we should halt?

965
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:30,040
Like, is this we just got this little piece of information or is nothing else in there?

966
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:34,040
And I thought that was pretty interesting around everybody just halting and saying, oh, we'll figure out later.

967
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:35,040
So was it it?

968
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:39,040
Well, I mean, it's I guess it's a better safe and sorry situation.

969
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:45,040
Rather than everyone get into discord and say, wait, why the fuck did we hope?

970
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:46,040
Was that was it a joke?

971
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,040
Okay, let's start it back up again.

972
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:49,040
Right.

973
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:55,040
Rather than like, you know, let an exploit go for another six hours while everyone goes, well, should we shouldn't we better off just.

974
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,040
Well, I was at failure tracking.

975
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:04,040
I thought it was actually just one of the one of the regular validators who just said, no, we should we're turning off on there now.

976
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:05,040
No, it's Valero Dragon 10.

977
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:08,040
1039 p.m. Eastern yesterday.

978
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:12,040
So 1 a.m. UTC just said validators, please halt your nodes.

979
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,040
There was a serious chain bug in the v9 upgrade.

980
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:16,040
That was it.

981
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:26,040
There was a bunch of eyeball emojis because like what the fuck, which is a pretty, and then there's obviously in the valer channel, like just a lot of conversation, like what's going on.

982
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,040
And then there was a lot of questioning of what's what's happening.

983
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:29,040
Those types of things.

984
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,040
So it's quite a strong argument for centralization isn't it.

985
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:38,040
And I know obviously we again, we this is a subject we covered a lot on this and do you know security upgrades?

986
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:45,040
There's been a lot of discussion around how centralized those are with relation to the team.

987
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,040
I'm not throwing stones by throwing the hour that knows right.

988
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:50,040
Is that is that really centralization?

989
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:51,040
Is that is that really what it is?

990
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:53,040
It's it's a request to halt.

991
01:09:53,040 --> 01:10:05,040
It's not it's not changing state or anything right like it's just let's pause the the only thing centralized about it is that there's a location where everybody looks right.

992
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:06,040
Yeah.

993
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:09,040
So I mean, something happened on secret back in September.

994
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:15,040
And what's interesting there is so there was there was a smart contract exploit there and secret swap was drained.

995
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:22,040
And we actually halted the chain before secret labs was aware that there was an exploit, I believe.

996
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:28,040
And so they woke up to us to the chain halted effectively because we all just got in telegram.

997
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,040
We saw something's been wrong and chain was halted.

998
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:38,040
And so I don't think that would be considered centralization because that is going to be made regardless of whether there's a singular entity calling for it or not.

999
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:48,040
As to whether validators have too much power, I think that on some chains, some do have too much power.

1000
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:52,040
So take for example, the carver.

1001
01:10:52,040 --> 01:11:00,040
If this was a, you know, the same platform type as osmosis, but with a power distribution like carver.

1002
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:07,040
If the top two validators are sleeping, right, and there's that exploit and you know,

1003
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,040
you need to emergency shut down the chain.

1004
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:12,040
It doesn't matter how many other eyeballs you get on the situation.

1005
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:15,040
You're not going to be able to shut the fucking thing down.

1006
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:17,040
Yeah, that's a real problem.

1007
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:18,040
Yeah.

1008
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:23,040
So, you know, distribution and power is important and like take for example,

1009
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:27,040
Evmos, it's getting pushed right up the top now.

1010
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:32,040
So there's a bunch of chains in a similar situation.

1011
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:40,040
And the more top heavy it gets, the harder it is to wow, the more vulnerable it is to various things for the various reasons.

1012
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:47,040
So do validators have too much power in general?

1013
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:54,040
No, but do some validators have too much power as in vote and control on the chain?

1014
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:56,040
Probably.

1015
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:58,040
Yeah.

1016
01:11:58,040 --> 01:11:59,040
Yeah.

1017
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:04,040
So interesting point just because somebody mentioned telegram just that something that got raised,

1018
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:10,040
not as a direct question to the gamer notes, the weekly question thread or whatever,

1019
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:16,040
but was whether or not this was more of a kind of general discussion I saw on Discord,

1020
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:21,040
whether we think the telegram hack thing is real.

1021
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,040
What do we reckon, place bats?

1022
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:24,040
What's the telegram?

1023
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:25,040
What?

1024
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:26,040
Telegram here?

1025
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:35,040
Somebody paste in the thing basically saying, yeah, telegram, because you know, it's like a home rolled encryption thing.

1026
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:41,040
Not home rolled, but it's not like everybody knows it's not secure signal or whatever.

1027
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:44,040
Somebody said, yeah, basically there's been exploit light.

1028
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,040
There's been zero day in telegram for years.

1029
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:55,040
I've collected loads and loads of private chats using this zero day within crypto.

1030
01:12:55,040 --> 01:13:02,040
And I'm gonna fucking pace Ben in June and July.

1031
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:03,040
Who gives a fuck?

1032
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:11,040
Don't talk about important shit on telegram.

1033
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:18,040
Yeah, well, that's exactly what I get for all personal frigging conversations.

1034
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:20,040
Back again.

1035
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:28,040
I think it's real. I mean, I don't know if I don't know if there's any authority behind that guy, but I think I'm engaged enough.

1036
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,040
I think it's interesting enough that I want it to be real.

1037
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:39,040
Also, in the chat, it's more than 67% to stop producing blocks for us to have a chain home, not 37%.

1038
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,040
Oh, 37% right?

1039
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:51,040
If 37% do not participate, you can't get to a consensus.

1040
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:55,040
If you can't get to 67%, then you're stuck.

1041
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:57,040
So it'll be 33%.

1042
01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:59,040
Sorry, you need 67%.

1043
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,040
So it's 33%.

1044
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,040
Yeah, you need more than 33% off.

1045
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:05,040
That was my fuck up.

1046
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:06,040
Sorry.

1047
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:10,040
How many values have to stop to producing blocks to chain halt?

1048
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:13,040
That's like one of those really annoyingly worded maths questions.

1049
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,040
No, it's right though. Don't say maths.

1050
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:21,040
Math question. The math question is how many validators have to stop producing blocks to chain halt?

1051
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:22,040
Mathematics.

1052
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:27,040
That's correct. How many validators have to stop producing blocks to produce for the chain to halt?

1053
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:29,040
That answer is more than 37%. That's correct.

1054
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,040
I thought it was 33%, no?

1055
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,040
Well, it's more than 33%.

1056
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:35,040
33% and 33%, right?

1057
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,040
So technically, 37% would halt it, yes.

1058
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,040
It's more than...

1059
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:41,040
It's a fairly common question.

1060
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:45,040
It's more than 100 minus 67%.

1061
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:49,040
Maths.

1062
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:51,040
It's funny.

1063
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:52,040
34%, sure.

1064
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:54,040
Let's do a couple more Ask Gamer Nodes.

1065
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:59,040
We should do Ask Gamer Nodes Maths questions when it's a really tough time.

1066
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:00,040
Maths.

1067
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:01,040
Not a good idea.

1068
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:11,040
I'm trying to find... I would remember the definition of maths from the world around you, right?

1069
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:12,040
That's what we're talking about.

1070
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:13,040
Look around you.

1071
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:14,040
Look around you. Thank you.

1072
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,040
Well, this is just how... No, maths is just how we speak.

1073
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:22,040
But they had a definition in that video, which I remember but not well enough to actually...

1074
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:25,040
Are you thinking of the day to day? Because in the day to day, they have...

1075
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:31,040
They say there's an algorithm for news and it's facts times importance with views.

1076
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:33,040
I'll find it and then...

1077
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:34,040
Which is another great...

1078
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:36,040
If you've never seen the Wall episode of the day...

1079
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:39,040
I've seen them all, like all 13 or whatever it is.

1080
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,040
It's a British TV show, so I think there's three episodes.

1081
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:46,040
That's all you need, right?

1082
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:47,040
That's all you need.

1083
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:54,040
So one of the other questions we had on the Ask Gamer Nodes was from Don on Twitter.

1084
01:15:54,040 --> 01:16:01,040
Will the Juno token get a utility?

1085
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:02,040
Well, yes.

1086
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:06,040
Other than securing smart contracts?

1087
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,040
Yeah, maybe.

1088
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:18,040
What are the utility... What do you think that utility could be?

1089
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,040
I agree. It's a utility token.

1090
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:22,040
Okay. I think we're on the same page.

1091
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:24,040
It's a utility token, right?

1092
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:26,040
I don't know what else...

1093
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:30,040
It has a tremendous amount of utility today, I think.

1094
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,040
Well, you can both of you. You can pay fees with it.

1095
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:38,040
You can secure the chain with it.

1096
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,040
That's the same for...

1097
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:42,040
Convert to the other...

1098
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:48,040
I guess maybe they're thinking in terms of something like Cosmosis where it's very definitely...

1099
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:53,040
It's absolutely core and integral to the main thing the chain is designed to do on an app chain.

1100
01:16:53,040 --> 01:17:04,040
Whereas I think, obviously, Juno is the reserve currency for other projects to use by building projects on top of it.

1101
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:10,040
But also, you can use it for LP as well and Juno swap.

1102
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:14,040
You can pay suppliers in it?

1103
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:15,040
Yeah.

1104
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:16,040
And get paid?

1105
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:20,040
More easily than USDC as well.

1106
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:24,040
So there's going to be lots of emerging uses for it.

1107
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:28,040
It's just time and devs.

1108
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:32,040
So a more interesting corollary of this one, and I'll throw this one in there,

1109
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:36,040
is that something I've noticed very, very heavily from projects coming here from Terra

1110
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:40,040
is how aggressively they depended on USDC.

1111
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:45,040
And obviously, we now got USDC getting bridged in and that's now available in Juno swap.

1112
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:59,040
But my question is, is relying on the presence of a stable in a smart contract context a weakness or a strength?

1113
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:01,040
It depends on the stable.

1114
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:03,040
That's a question.

1115
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:04,040
Yeah.

1116
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:13,040
I mean, conceptually, is it better to work in, to be able to build projects that can work in a fundamentally volatile token?

1117
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:15,040
Or is it different use cases?

1118
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:19,040
Like for some use cases, you just have to use a stable over some use cases.

1119
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:20,040
I don't know.

1120
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:22,040
It's something I've been wondering kind of myself.

1121
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:26,040
I don't really have a good answer, but I was kind of curious what you guys thought.

1122
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:33,040
I don't think you need necessarily a stable coin as in a coin peg to the US dollars.

1123
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:52,040
But I think it is for confidence, you need something that is highly distributed and enough depth in liquidity to be able to be more,

1124
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:55,040
have more confidence in its value.

1125
01:18:55,040 --> 01:19:08,040
Like Adam, for example, is part of its use at the moment is as a coin that can be more relied upon than the cosmos altcoins.

1126
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:12,040
And that's a utility in itself.

1127
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:14,040
I think I agree.

1128
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:25,040
I would think that I do believe that a stable or some sort of structure that there's a lot of volatility in the chains that we get involved with in the cosmos.

1129
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:36,040
So, Juno at $3.63 versus say 44 or Stargaze at 3.14 cents versus 46 cents.

1130
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,040
There's a lot of volatility that's happening within there.

1131
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:47,040
And I think having a stable or some sort of way to be able to bring things back to a, and it doesn't have to be US dollars.

1132
01:19:47,040 --> 01:20:05,040
Like, I don't know, fuck the US, but I mean, it doesn't have to be, it's a US dollars could be anything, but some sort of structure where I have a safe harbor to be able to move things to that avoid that volatility at least at some point, I think is an important point.

1133
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:09,040
So, one of the problems is that we're moving volatility to be acceptable.

1134
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:16,040
So, the US dollars is not unvolatile, the euro is not unvolatile, the pound is not unvolatile.

1135
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:24,040
They just move, their volatility averaged out on a day by day basis moves very within, it moves on a daily basis within very small bounds and it's

1136
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:25,040
Fair enough.

1137
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:28,040
Unvolatile over a certain period of time.

1138
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:30,040
There's nothing that's unvolatile, right?

1139
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:38,040
I don't think we have anything that's 100% stable, whether that be a commodity or land or investment or anything else, right?

1140
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:40,040
Or maybe what are you going to say?

1141
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:44,040
Arizona iced tea, it's 99 cents or the Costco hot dog.

1142
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:48,040
Costco hot dog might be, that Costco hot dog might be a good stable.

1143
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:53,040
That would actually not, but they're losing money on that because they want you to come in and buy the earth at that bullshit that they have.

1144
01:20:53,040 --> 01:21:05,040
I once saw an amazing interview on British TV with a pound shop owner in the north of England and he, unironically, it was like just off the budget.

1145
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:10,040
So, we have a thing where, you guys presumably have a similar thing where the chancellor comes out with a briefcase.

1146
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:12,040
It's a symbolic, you know, the budget isn't here.

1147
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,040
I don't know if the budget is actually in there, but whatever.

1148
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:24,040
It was on budget day, they were like, we've got a pound shop owner in an apron, like he looks like the guy from open all hours if anybody gets that reference.

1149
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:25,040
No.

1150
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,040
We're going to get him to say something about the budget.

1151
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:36,040
And he just goes, well, you know, the natural enemy of the pound shop owner is inflation.

1152
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:42,040
It sounds like the frozen orange juice futures from training spaces.

1153
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:44,040
Oh, what a great home.

1154
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:45,040
There you go.

1155
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:46,040
All my references are 80s movies.

1156
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:47,040
So that's it.

1157
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:48,040
That's a great film.

1158
01:21:48,040 --> 01:22:02,040
So one of the things about having a stable coin in the ecosystem is though it inherently makes everything else more unstable because it gives a location to dump to.

1159
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:05,040
So tell me what you mean.

1160
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:21,040
Well, if you have a safe haven, right, and it's easily accessible rather than more difficult about having to shuffle things around to get to a sex to exit your money.

1161
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:41,040
If you have say, say, people are piling into a token somewhere and then there's like a hiccup or something, it gives people an easily accessible safe haven to swap straight to which decimates the price of the other token.

1162
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:57,040
So if you were swapping between other tokens in the same ecosystem, that it would just it would even out volatility more than being able to just dump everything into a stable coin.

1163
01:22:57,040 --> 01:23:01,040
It does make a lot of sense.

1164
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:19,040
I guess the idea that I guess depends on where that stable coin is and and what the structure of that is, but the idea that we're constantly in those situations that also I guess it comes back to our original conversation, which is trying to try to bring new people into the ecosystem,

1165
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:32,040
which is that I want to be able to provide easy methods for people to be able to move USD or other types of just kind of fiat currency into this ecosystem to be able to invest and be able to put money behind projects and those types of things, right?

1166
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:37,040
Because those same LP pools that you're talking about that allow the exit also allow the entrance.

1167
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:46,040
And so we go back to this Juneau type of thing back to prop 26 and we're saying that we're going to be able to take 15,000 Juneau and just make it towards devs.

1168
01:23:46,040 --> 01:24:10,040
I kind of go back to the idea around what's really important here is growth and ecosystem growth and not to make it a Ponzi because I don't think that's exactly what I'm that's not what I'm trying to explain here but there is importance that allows that this ecosystem overall has to grow for not only for the health of the ecosystem

1169
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:14,040
but also for these projects to be successful in the long term etc etc.

1170
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:26,040
So, idols is nailed it here that stables seem to be invented for day trading leverage and I think from a sex point of view they probably were.

1171
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:55,040
But in terms of like decentralized exchanges, it gives a base for people to day trade off so people can enter and exit tokens all day long back to a safe haven for them to sleep on with while knowing that they're going to you know still be whole in the morning or even at the same time like in terms of UST earner, you know,

1172
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:59,040
return on a wallet sleeping until it disappears.

1173
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:03,040
So, in turn that's not good for volatility that just adds.

1174
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:14,040
So imagine if that didn't exist and then you know you would have people who are, for example interested in the Juno project so they go and invest in the Juno project and they take it and sit on it.

1175
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:19,040
And there's not this crazy trading going on in the meantime.

1176
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:25,040
Yeah, what I was going to say was I think there's a couple of sides to it.

1177
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:33,040
I think my first take on whether stablecoin is necessary is basically what the purpose of the app is right.

1178
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:41,040
Like, I have a something that I'm developing and for me, stablecoin is absolutely necessary.

1179
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:52,040
And that leads into my point too is in my opinion and this might be a controversial take here, the end goal of crypto is for users to not know they're using crypto.

1180
01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:57,040
Like there needs to be an interface that's so seamless that yes they're using crypto.

1181
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:03,040
They don't know that they're just using an app that happens to be decentralized happens to have a lot of really cool features that crypto brings.

1182
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:14,040
And one of the ways to facilitate that interaction is having some stable meeting between the real world and crypto, if you will.

1183
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:16,040
I think that's a good point.

1184
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:18,040
No, your point is right.

1185
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:24,040
Like that idea, I see both sides, like that idea to be able to have some stability and be able to pull things out is a good point.

1186
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:31,040
I think the idea to say, hey, if we're in the ecosystem then we're in the ecosystem and to be able to create barriers of exit.

1187
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:50,040
Maybe that's not the right term, but it's kind of what you're saying, but almost like a barrier to exit to say, hey, we're moving at this to Adam or I'm going to move it to, I don't know, a larger market cap type of coin that doesn't necessarily swing as far as say Chihuahua or Cerberus and those types of things where I have a little bit more stability in terms of price or at least it moves a little bit slower.

1188
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:55,040
And then if I want to be able to move that out that I'm moving through regular, you know, dexes and those types of things.

1189
01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:57,040
So, or CXs or whatever.

1190
01:26:57,040 --> 01:27:02,040
So I kind of get both sides of that argument. It's a good question actually.

1191
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:05,040
I think it comes down to liquidity, doesn't it?

1192
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:16,040
Because what about those highly volatile ones like Cerberus and and let's just say Cerberus.

1193
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,040
Everything else in the cosmos right now?

1194
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:21,040
Well, you know, the mean coins. I was just trying to remember the fucking names.

1195
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:30,040
I mean, but that's, you know, maybe they wouldn't have ended up decimated so much as they did if there wasn't an easy out.

1196
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:37,040
I mean, yeah, surely that surely could just be, you know, switching over to Osmo or Adam and exiting that way.

1197
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:39,040
I thought we're supposed to blame validators for a lot of shit, right?

1198
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,040
Like just selling rewards and shit. I thought that was the party light.

1199
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:43,040
Was that what it was?

1200
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,040
Yeah, we're the devil.

1201
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:50,040
Yeah, that 5% really fucking decimates all these coins and shit.

1202
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:53,040
Yeah, man. And so, yeah.

1203
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:57,040
Well, anyway, that's I'm just saying the same thing over and over again.

1204
01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:58,040
Pretty well.

1205
01:27:58,040 --> 01:27:59,040
You catch up.

1206
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:10,040
Well, I think also like the tokenomics of the space very much tend towards coins that will be artificially held high in value so long as there is enough liquidity to hold them high.

1207
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:18,040
Like a common thing that people are saying on Telegram at the moment in the Juno chats or and I imagine in every other chat.

1208
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:23,040
It's just the due to the one I'm checking on the most is like, you know, what's happened to the price?

1209
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:24,040
What's happened to the price?

1210
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:28,040
It's like, well, the liquidity has gone down.

1211
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:29,040
The price has gone down, right?

1212
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:45,040
Like the reason a lot of the tokenomics of these, so some of these coins, they actually are indefinitely inflationary, but the amount in circulation at any given time is actually not infinite, right?

1213
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:49,040
So, yeah, that's exactly how a central bank works.

1214
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:55,040
And it's all about kind of juggling that to affect some notion of value.

1215
01:28:55,040 --> 01:29:03,040
And the complex thing is balancing that with liquidity in such a way that there's any consistency.

1216
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:14,040
And until you basically get users to think that this is not an investment, fundamentally, you can't create.

1217
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:24,040
Because that's the difference between a safe harbor, stable and a high cap, high supply meme coin.

1218
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:28,040
It's only the perception that it won't go up.

1219
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:38,040
And the thing is, it actually is going up and it is going down, even if it's paid to the US dollar, it's constantly fluctuating because the US dollar constantly fluctuates and it's not constantly pegged either.

1220
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:45,040
But if you looked on a monthly, bi-monthly yearly basis, it would be moving around. It would just be moving around slowly.

1221
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:52,040
So, what's really different is actually the way the consumer is looking at it, which is not as an investment.

1222
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:56,040
So, they're prepared to spend it like money.

1223
01:29:56,040 --> 01:30:03,040
And so, it's that expectation and it's the purchasing price parity that matters.

1224
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:09,040
I know we talked about purchasing price parity on the podcast before.

1225
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:20,040
But the interesting question is if you did tokenomics like Stargaze, which is quite stable in terms of its general bracket,

1226
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:32,040
if you did tokenomics like Stargaze and you called it a stable coin, but you did nothing else than launch a chain that had underlying utility, would it behave like a stable coin?

1227
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:37,040
Like, if you could basically make it a black box and people would have to trust you.

1228
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:47,040
And let's say people did trust you as developers and they would, like as a thought experiment, if you say it's a stable, they will trust you that it's a stable.

1229
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:50,040
I mean, this is basically the thought experiment of Tether, right?

1230
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:53,040
It's close.

1231
01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:58,040
I've led you down the garden path.

1232
01:30:58,040 --> 01:31:04,040
So, I mean, have you looked into the disclaimer on the USDC site recently?

1233
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:07,040
No, I wouldn't say you're fucked.

1234
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:10,040
What? It's fucking wooly as hell, isn't it?

1235
01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:14,040
It's like, oh, yeah, we're kind of, you know, we've got some dollars, you know, we've got some other stuff.

1236
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:17,040
We're kind of over-clastralized. Don't worry, you're pretty little head about it.

1237
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:27,040
It's like, you know, when you see prime beef, the reason people say prime beef, at least in the UK, you see that quite a lot, is because it has no meaning.

1238
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:29,040
Really?

1239
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:31,040
It doesn't mean anything.

1240
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:35,040
You don't get the choice versus prime situation out there?

1241
01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:49,040
Well, yeah, it means something. But if you put like a certification, like Red Tractor or RSPCA or whatever, it means that the meat is verifiably of a quality from a place.

1242
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:52,040
It's not horse meat, whatever.

1243
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:59,040
That was a real scandal. It happened in the UK a few years ago. The supermarkets were selling horse meat. It was a thing.

1244
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:02,040
Was it good? You mean prime beef?

1245
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:05,040
No. No. No.

1246
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:09,040
I've heard horses shaming in Japan. It's actually quite nice.

1247
01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:20,040
I mean, it probably is fine. But I'm actually not, I mean, I don't eat meat ready anymore, but if I'm not a snob when I do, my favorite, the meat I still do eat is awful because it's good for you.

1248
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:28,040
But that's by the bite. The point is the reason people say it's prime beef is because in the UK, that has no meaning.

1249
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:33,040
So if you go to somebody and go, oh, this was really shit quality. So it's prime beef and they go, well, prime beef doesn't mean anything.

1250
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:36,040
It's just a marketing term. Fuck off.

1251
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:38,040
Fuck off.

1252
01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:44,040
It's true. Whereas if I said this is organic, right? And I was like, this is not fucking organic.

1253
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:45,040
Yeah.

1254
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:52,040
And I could prove it or you watch the other way around, you have to prove to me it's organic. I could sue you on a consumer rights law.

1255
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:56,040
You get damages claims and things like that for organic.

1256
01:32:56,040 --> 01:33:00,040
I don't think you get damages. I think they're just probably have to write you an apology letter or something.

1257
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:03,040
They probably get fined for false advertising, actually.

1258
01:33:03,040 --> 01:33:05,040
That's a US thing.

1259
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:06,040
Yeah.

1260
01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:13,040
There's all sorts of advertising stuff you can get fine for in the UK. It's usually really fucking small fines though.

1261
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:31,040
But back to the point is that like circles stuff around what's actually secured reminds me of the Greg's steak bake specifically the steak bake, which is prime steak, which doesn't mean anything.

1262
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:41,040
So yeah, I'm TLDR. I'm dubious about circle. Maybe it is also a thought experiment. Maybe it's a thought experiment rule participating in.

1263
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:49,040
Okay, battery 11%. Let's pump this through a bit. So Terry projects announced the June I'm just moving on bud.

1264
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:50,040
Okay, appreciate it.

1265
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:56,040
And now it's for Juno's. So who wants to take the lead on that and you've got one minute.

1266
01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:58,040
Whole bunch of stuff.

1267
01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:00,040
Last question.

1268
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:05,040
So give us give us the three most in your opinion, most important projects that are coming.

1269
01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:07,040
Making prioritize.

1270
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:19,040
Well, I mean, obviously, loop is the biggest. The most exciting to me is sub query because indexing, cosmism, things I care about.

1271
01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:23,040
And there's not sure how she announced them, but there's a couple of other.

1272
01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:27,040
There's NFT type stuff in the background, which obviously vested interest in.

1273
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:34,040
And I can't remember if the other one has been announced yet either some wallet stuff.

1274
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:45,040
It's all the blur. It's all the blur. Okay, I was about to say something really bitchy that I'm not going to say that.

1275
01:34:45,040 --> 01:34:50,040
There's just a lot of conversations and it's hard to keep track of all of them. There we are.

1276
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:54,040
Well, the big ones loop and they're Australian. So fuck everyone else.

1277
01:34:54,040 --> 01:35:01,040
So our exclusions from air drops. Okay, it's a book. What do you reckon?

1278
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:06,040
Oh, that's ridiculous bullshit. That idea. It's not about who you validate with.

1279
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:13,040
It's that you are a member of the Cosmo Seeker system or the chain that you care about from a from that perspective.

1280
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:19,040
The idea of white listing or black listing validators is fucking horseshit.

1281
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:30,040
That is ridiculous bullshit. Why would you why would you ever dictate why somebody who makes a random selection off a validator list

1282
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:36,040
participates or doesn't participate in some sort of airdrop? I think that's fucking bullshit.

1283
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:38,040
Counts are going wrong.

1284
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:44,040
If you were doing an ad shop, would you would you include Takumi in it?

1285
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:46,040
Oh, as a validator?

1286
01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:53,040
No, as in would you exclude them the whale wallet or would you add up them two million tokens or whatever?

1287
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:56,040
You mean depending on who they're validating with?

1288
01:35:56,040 --> 01:36:01,040
I think you just means exclusions in general like saying all these wallets of valid.

1289
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:06,040
Oh, I'm sorry. I read this is different. Let me back off my fucking tirade then.

1290
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:10,040
I was just using your primer in the same way. So I was like ready to go.

1291
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:19,040
I think the idea here with this question, let me let me let me read into this question and let me rephrase this question the way it should have been rephrased.

1292
01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:21,040
That sounds like an asshole.

1293
01:36:21,040 --> 01:36:29,040
The idea was that should you exclude either based on validator selection or based on other types like let's talk about validator selection.

1294
01:36:29,040 --> 01:36:40,040
The idea that people are valid that are staking into the ecosystem, who they validate with should make no difference in whether or not they're included in that excluded with an airdrop.

1295
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:49,040
I'm specifically talking about Coastland on this Eveless thing, which is I think a bunch of horseshit like that is a validator population popularity conference,

1296
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:54,040
which are type of structure, which I think is absolute garbage. I think that's awful.

1297
01:36:54,040 --> 01:37:06,040
Our exclusions from airdrops say to say from a sex perspective or something similar where you say I'm just valid with I don't know with Kraken and they have a validator and I don't know even know where I'm validating.

1298
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:14,040
I'm just staking because it says I'm going to get 30 cents on the dollar for what I'm validating and those types of things.

1299
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:20,040
That I think is okay because I think those individuals are not necessarily invested in the ecosystem.

1300
01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:30,040
They're in a exchange type perspective where they're just clicking a button on a web page and they don't understand the structure behind that.

1301
01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:33,040
I think that's okay. I think I'm not in an issue with that.

1302
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:39,040
But the idea around like white listing validators or black listing validators I think is awful.

1303
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:44,040
Related point to this because this is relevant is that there have been several conversations.

1304
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:52,040
There are ongoing several conversations with staking protocols, not naming any names.

1305
01:37:52,040 --> 01:38:08,040
Most staking protocols work on selecting a subset of, sorry, liquid staking protocols work on liquid staking or otherwise, like all landing protocols work on selecting a subset of validators.

1306
01:38:08,040 --> 01:38:14,040
What is your take on those protocols?

1307
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:17,040
Wasn't that clear enough? I don't understand.

1308
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:26,040
So in the case of something like liquid staking where it's a subset of validators, you'd also be like it has to be all validators or none.

1309
01:38:26,040 --> 01:38:34,040
What's the benefit to the ecosystem or the people behind it or the people are putting time and effort into this ecosystem and limiting?

1310
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:41,040
So let me give you my thoughts on it. Maybe that'll clear up things up a little bit.

1311
01:38:41,040 --> 01:38:46,040
So for my opinion, I think it's okay to exclude some validators or at least change your airdrop rules for validators.

1312
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:55,040
Like were I to do an airdrop, I would probably exclude 0% validators as an example because they turn into something of a vampire on the ecosystem.

1313
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:56,040
Look at Kava.

1314
01:38:56,040 --> 01:39:05,040
And I would also probably do like a reverse system where if you're staking near the top, you'll receive less than those staking near the bottom.

1315
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:08,040
Just a kind of reward decentralization.

1316
01:39:08,040 --> 01:39:13,040
I think using airdrops as a way of changing behavior is a really compelling method for doing it.

1317
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:21,040
Now, that's different from saying I will only give an airdrop to these four validators or I'm excluding these four validators for specific reasons.

1318
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:30,040
I don't see positive end, but I do see positive end, at least using as a method for achieving certain outcomes.

1319
01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:35,040
But is that actually solving the problem or just like bandating the issue?

1320
01:39:35,040 --> 01:39:44,040
Like solving the problem would be, I'm not sure if it's actually solving the issue around staking.

1321
01:39:44,040 --> 01:39:51,040
We were just talking about this also on Twitter related to how to build UI around being able to choose a validator.

1322
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:54,040
Like there's different UIs here.

1323
01:39:54,040 --> 01:40:04,040
I think the OmniFlex team has done a great job in terms of being able to make sure that in the interfaces that they provide around staking have a random structure around validators,

1324
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:06,040
at least so they're not ordered.

1325
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:13,040
Kepler is exactly ordered based on staking 1 to 100 and whatever based on what the validator ownership is.

1326
01:40:13,040 --> 01:40:16,040
MintScan highlights the top 10.

1327
01:40:16,040 --> 01:40:19,040
Why are they highlighting the top 10? Who gives a shit?

1328
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:23,040
They should be hiding the top 10 or at least hiding the top 33%.

1329
01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:28,040
They're highlighting the high light says, hey, these are the safe ones.

1330
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:30,040
Fuck all these below that type of idea.

1331
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:34,040
And we're the top 10 in one chain.

1332
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:41,040
And I would say within that structure, those types of things, you want to be able to drive behavior through UI.

1333
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:49,040
And I think all of these staking interfaces, regardless of what the staking interfaces are, should be pushing towards decentralization,

1334
01:40:49,040 --> 01:41:00,040
at least in terms of that idea to say, hey, we don't want a sift chain structure where 67% of the voting power is in the top, whatever it is, seven validators or the hell it is.

1335
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:13,040
I have a dumb question and possibly somebody on the here could answer me every staking protocol that I've heard talking about staking derivatives,

1336
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:24,040
or null sneezing again, or, or liquid staking or whatever.

1337
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:34,040
They always say, oh, we can only support subset validators. But I don't really understand why other than coordination.

1338
01:41:34,040 --> 01:41:40,040
Is it just laziness or am I missing something fundamental about how these protocols work?

1339
01:41:40,040 --> 01:41:43,040
I don't understand the liquid stick is enough to be able to comment on that.

1340
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:51,040
But I mean, the challenge within 100 plus validators is not to be overlooked, right, in terms of coordination and everything else.

1341
01:41:51,040 --> 01:42:02,040
Although, as most as to their credit, halted a chain within 12 minutes based on a seven word discord comment.

1342
01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:07,040
Around 100 plus validators, which is pretty amazing, right?

1343
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:09,040
Yeah.

1344
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:13,040
I think maybe it's just the coordination point and maybe that's the underlying reason.

1345
01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:21,040
If any of the Juno swap guys watch this back and I've made a factual mistake, then I'm going to hear it.

1346
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:22,040
I'm going to hear it in the DMs.

1347
01:42:22,040 --> 01:42:27,040
So I guess we'll find out for next week and we can do a follow up if I'm totally wrong about that one.

1348
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:35,040
So I just want to confirm that by Juno.love there, Firestake have actually said, I just went and checked it.

1349
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:39,040
They said on their Twitter that they are exiting their operations.

1350
01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:44,040
So they're 10, would you say 10, 12 chains?

1351
01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:47,040
I guess they're going to exit.

1352
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:50,040
They said they're either going to, now this first one I don't quite understand.

1353
01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:52,040
They said they're going to transition down.

1354
01:42:52,040 --> 01:43:03,040
So they said there's one of two ways either transition their nodes to trusted providers via a key exchange, which is a little strange, or unborn.

1355
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:06,040
So there you have it.

1356
01:43:06,040 --> 01:43:08,040
Or rebrand.

1357
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:11,040
Well, unborned and then rebrand, I guess.

1358
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:12,040
Yeah.

1359
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:14,040
I mean,

1360
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:16,040
Oh, it's starting for zero again.

1361
01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:19,040
So that's a bit of a blasted.

1362
01:43:19,040 --> 01:43:21,040
Yeah.

1363
01:43:21,040 --> 01:43:28,040
I mean, I don't know how you feel about this, but I mean, we talked about this before, but I mean, they, there's some bad decisions in there.

1364
01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:37,040
They tried to do the right thing, maybe with it, regardless of whether that was based on being boxed in based on the chain and having the data.

1365
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:41,040
To be able to see that or whether that was conscious.

1366
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:46,040
I saw something like a Twitter, a tweet from them that says like we're laying up at night thinking about this.

1367
01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:47,040
Yeah, I would think so.

1368
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:48,040
Right.

1369
01:43:48,040 --> 01:43:51,040
Like you're stealing from the community that you're trying to be able to build from.

1370
01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:55,040
So yeah, I would, I would hope that that would create some thoughts.

1371
01:43:55,040 --> 01:44:01,040
And if it did create some thoughts and it did make them tweet that out, then then there's some value in that.

1372
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:02,040
Right.

1373
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:06,040
So if that, if that turns into a rebranding and, you know, we're going to start over and we're going to start with smaller numbers.

1374
01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:08,040
Change and rebuild and so be it.

1375
01:44:08,040 --> 01:44:12,040
And maybe that's a lesson that's learned.

1376
01:44:12,040 --> 01:44:16,040
Um, the fray, did you want to do your D gen moment, man?

1377
01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:22,040
Uh, yeah, we can do that.

1378
01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:28,040
It's literally a half of today's agenda is just.

1379
01:44:28,040 --> 01:44:30,040
There are a lot of questions on Twitter.

1380
01:44:30,040 --> 01:44:32,040
There are a lot of questions on Twitter.

1381
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:33,040
People already want to know.

1382
01:44:33,040 --> 01:44:34,040
Go for it, man.

1383
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:41,040
Okay.

1384
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:42,040
Cool.

1385
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:43,040
DJ minute.

1386
01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:44,040
Here we go.

1387
01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:46,040
It's going to be slightly longer than a minute.

1388
01:44:46,040 --> 01:44:55,040
I told you the definition of her math, mathematical anti thoracic hafartum septonum.

1389
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:57,040
Don't ever question.

1390
01:44:57,040 --> 01:44:59,040
I finally know what maths means.

1391
01:44:59,040 --> 01:45:01,040
I want to know.

1392
01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:05,040
Uh, you know, what's the other mistake to to get the airdrop?

1393
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:06,040
Yes.

1394
01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:07,040
Only to me.

1395
01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:08,040
Okay.

1396
01:45:08,040 --> 01:45:09,040
No, no, no.

1397
01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:11,040
Uh, we've been very, very clever from the start.

1398
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:12,040
That's fucking bullshit.

1399
01:45:12,040 --> 01:45:18,040
So, uh, all the questions that we got through on Twitter and I didn't write down who asked any of these.

1400
01:45:18,040 --> 01:45:22,040
So I'm just going to answer them in quick fire fashion as I possibly can.

1401
01:45:22,040 --> 01:45:26,040
Number one, how launch date, uh, when it's fucking ready lads.

1402
01:45:26,040 --> 01:45:29,040
Uh, number two, will how support Kepler mobile?

1403
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:34,040
Yes, it will, but you can't integrate a test net application with Kepler mobile.

1404
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:41,040
So we literally can't build and test that until we go main net, which brings back to how launch date when it's fucking ready lads.

1405
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:42,040
Cool.

1406
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:46,040
Um, name service plan differentiator our partnerships planned.

1407
01:45:46,040 --> 01:45:49,040
Uh, yeah, we have a bunch of stuff on the roadmap.

1408
01:45:49,040 --> 01:45:52,040
We need to finish building how first then same team.

1409
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:56,040
Uh, differentiator is doesn't fucking pretend to be a domain.

1410
01:45:56,040 --> 01:46:06,040
Um, we're going to launch, uh, a new system for smart contracts and web, you know, interchain stuff and I see a host is coming to Juno.

1411
01:46:06,040 --> 01:46:10,040
It's currently going to be on test net next week and we're going to launch it soon.

1412
01:46:10,040 --> 01:46:13,040
Juno is a host chain name services on Juno.

1413
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:17,040
Other smart contracts in the cosmos ecosystem can call it there's differentiator for you.

1414
01:46:17,040 --> 01:46:23,040
Um, is number question number four, is this on chain or traditional web servers?

1415
01:46:23,040 --> 01:46:27,040
Now, but both of them are on chain, both of them are on chain metadata.

1416
01:46:27,040 --> 01:46:29,040
That's very new to cosmos.

1417
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:31,040
None of the metadata is off chain.

1418
01:46:31,040 --> 01:46:39,040
There will be some stuff we do long form posts on how, but that will be on IPFS your images for names are on IPFS as well.

1419
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:41,040
Everything else is on chain.

1420
01:46:41,040 --> 01:46:43,040
It's on chain metadata.

1421
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:48,040
Um, question five, why $20 target price for a name?

1422
01:46:48,040 --> 01:46:50,040
Will this affect air drops?

1423
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:54,040
$20 seems like a reasonable amount to pay once for a name for all time.

1424
01:46:54,040 --> 01:46:57,040
If it's less than $20, it's a network attack vector.

1425
01:46:57,040 --> 01:47:07,040
Um, you can use, you can create lots of names and then spam a downstream service that's using it as a login layer because you can only ban it.

1426
01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:11,040
Usually people will ban a name because that's the most valuable thing that somebody will own.

1427
01:47:11,040 --> 01:47:13,040
It's the best vector for moderation.

1428
01:47:13,040 --> 01:47:16,040
So that's why $20 will affect air drops.

1429
01:47:16,040 --> 01:47:19,040
No, probably not.

1430
01:47:19,040 --> 01:47:20,040
Whatever.

1431
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:28,040
Uh, six was how not its own chain because the whole point of Juno is you find product, product, market fit and then you go build a new thing.

1432
01:47:28,040 --> 01:47:30,040
And chain dev is really tedious.

1433
01:47:30,040 --> 01:47:32,040
I'm already helping to build one chain.

1434
01:47:32,040 --> 01:47:34,040
I don't need to be doing two at once.

1435
01:47:34,040 --> 01:47:40,040
Uh, seven, what role does how token play besides governance?

1436
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:42,040
Um, you can stake on content.

1437
01:47:42,040 --> 01:47:47,040
You get rewards creators get rewards, stakers get rewards.

1438
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:49,040
It's going to be fucking wild lads.

1439
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:53,040
Uh, question eight, how will how integrate with other daps on Juno?

1440
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:56,040
It already natively works with dow dow.

1441
01:47:56,040 --> 01:48:00,040
Um, so dow dow props and stuff you currently can't comment on them.

1442
01:48:00,040 --> 01:48:01,040
You need kind of discussion around them.

1443
01:48:01,040 --> 01:48:05,040
You can tag them from a how, uh, like a, it's kind of like a hashtag.

1444
01:48:05,040 --> 01:48:09,040
You can say reference a prop and you can then have a discussion around that prop.

1445
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:11,040
Uh, so that's one integration.

1446
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:14,040
Um, there will probably be more as more daps launch.

1447
01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:17,040
Um, obviously Juno swap and stuff, um, as well.

1448
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:18,040
So that's pretty insane.

1449
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:19,040
Uh, and cool.

1450
01:48:19,040 --> 01:48:21,040
What's the difference between how and Twitter?

1451
01:48:21,040 --> 01:48:25,040
We both, well Twitter and we both, uh, fucking on web too, and they're

1452
01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:27,040
maintained by advertising.

1453
01:48:27,040 --> 01:48:28,040
We don't have advertising.

1454
01:48:28,040 --> 01:48:33,040
Uh, we don't really give a shit if you follow two people and you only want to

1455
01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:38,040
see their posts on your wall because we'd have no reason to just put random shit

1456
01:48:38,040 --> 01:48:42,040
in your feed that you don't want because we don't need to sell you shit.

1457
01:48:42,040 --> 01:48:43,040
That's literally the point.

1458
01:48:43,040 --> 01:48:47,040
So what is different is that our entire economic model is predicated around

1459
01:48:47,040 --> 01:48:52,040
serving you content you give a fuck about rather than trying to sell your data.

1460
01:48:52,040 --> 01:48:54,040
Don't really know how to explain it better than that.

1461
01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:57,040
Uh, go read no logo by Naomi Klein.

1462
01:48:57,040 --> 01:48:59,040
Um, how will moderation work?

1463
01:48:59,040 --> 01:49:02,040
Number 10, I've been tearing my hair out of that.

1464
01:49:02,040 --> 01:49:03,040
We're working hard on it.

1465
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:05,040
Public alpha.

1466
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:10,040
There will be changes to it, but yeah, the Dow will control moderation.

1467
01:49:10,040 --> 01:49:13,040
There'll be a sub-Dow that controls moderation as well.

1468
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:14,040
I'll take it.

1469
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:15,040
I'll take it.

1470
01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:17,040
You want me to ban all console do that?

1471
01:49:17,040 --> 01:49:18,040
No problem.

1472
01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:19,040
You give me the moderates.

1473
01:49:19,040 --> 01:49:20,040
Yeah, me and no.

1474
01:49:20,040 --> 01:49:21,040
Yeah.

1475
01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:22,040
Yeah.

1476
01:49:22,040 --> 01:49:23,040
Fuck it.

1477
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:24,040
Yeah.

1478
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:25,040
You have a story.

1479
01:49:25,040 --> 01:49:26,040
Games and nodes blocks it.

1480
01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:27,040
Shultz too.

1481
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:29,040
Well, listen, you pissed me off.

1482
01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:30,040
You're gone forever.

1483
01:49:30,040 --> 01:49:31,040
I don't want to be the shit.

1484
01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:34,040
I want to put that into terms of, fuck it.

1485
01:49:34,040 --> 01:49:36,040
I want to have the app.

1486
01:49:36,040 --> 01:49:37,040
Yeah, fuck it.

1487
01:49:37,040 --> 01:49:40,040
I'm pushing Trump to the top of the fucking pedestal.

1488
01:49:40,040 --> 01:49:41,040
Fuck it.

1489
01:49:41,040 --> 01:49:42,040
Fuck.

1490
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:43,040
If you're a cunt, you're gone.

1491
01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:44,040
That's it.

1492
01:49:44,040 --> 01:49:45,040
That's a structure.

1493
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:46,040
Done.

1494
01:49:46,040 --> 01:49:47,040
Okay.

1495
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:50,040
Uh, 11 when dense, dense doesn't exist.

1496
01:49:50,040 --> 01:49:52,040
There's not going to be a dense token.

1497
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:53,040
It's all howl now.

1498
01:49:53,040 --> 01:49:55,040
That's that one.

1499
01:49:55,040 --> 01:49:57,040
Uh, what's the difference between howl and dense?

1500
01:49:57,040 --> 01:49:58,040
One's a name service.

1501
01:49:58,040 --> 01:50:00,040
One's a micro blogging.

1502
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:05,040
Well, one's medium, but on chain with a bunch of cool economic incentives and new stuff.

1503
01:50:05,040 --> 01:50:10,040
One of them's a login layer that any app can use, any DAP can use.

1504
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:14,040
How will howl promote itself and keep its active user base up?

1505
01:50:14,040 --> 01:50:18,040
When you stake on content, your stake expires after a period of time.

1506
01:50:18,040 --> 01:50:23,280
So you can't just like go to the hello world howl that comes out on day one that Callum

1507
01:50:23,280 --> 01:50:28,040
will no doubt post with some fucking spicy take and then stake on that and then continue

1508
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:31,440
earning howl forever because it will expire after a couple of weeks and you have to come

1509
01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:36,440
back and decide what new shit you want to stake on.

1510
01:50:36,440 --> 01:50:41,440
Uh, people, uh, I can't connect with dense name or multiple networks.

1511
01:50:41,440 --> 01:50:42,440
Why is that?

1512
01:50:42,440 --> 01:50:46,520
Uh, cause I see a hasn't been launched yet, but when it has other people can integrate

1513
01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:47,520
with it.

1514
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:50,200
Um, can I sell selling names?

1515
01:50:50,200 --> 01:50:51,200
Can I sell names?

1516
01:50:51,200 --> 01:50:52,200
Something like that?

1517
01:50:52,200 --> 01:50:55,440
Uh, no, when can I sell dick butt?

1518
01:50:55,440 --> 01:50:57,440
When can I sell dick butt?

1519
01:50:57,440 --> 01:50:59,440
Uh, yeah, very good.

1520
01:50:59,440 --> 01:51:04,600
Well, when some, when, when there's a native marketplace for NFTs, you can, they're just

1521
01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:06,040
NFTs, you can sell names.

1522
01:51:06,040 --> 01:51:08,120
You can, you can actually sell howl.

1523
01:51:08,120 --> 01:51:09,120
You can sell posts.

1524
01:51:09,120 --> 01:51:14,280
If you have a post that's super fucking spicy, I'm sure Callum's fucking posts are going

1525
01:51:14,280 --> 01:51:18,440
to be really valuable on how you can do that.

1526
01:51:18,440 --> 01:51:19,440
Sell a post.

1527
01:51:19,440 --> 01:51:20,440
Yeah.

1528
01:51:20,440 --> 01:51:21,800
That's the shit right there.

1529
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:23,920
Sell a post or stake on a post.

1530
01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:28,240
You can stake on a post, uh, to like, like the equivalent of liking something that says

1531
01:51:28,240 --> 01:51:29,240
no retweet.

1532
01:51:29,240 --> 01:51:30,240
There's no like a retweet.

1533
01:51:30,240 --> 01:51:37,240
There's no amplify because it doesn't really have a, is a post just a nifty?

1534
01:51:37,240 --> 01:51:38,240
Yeah.

1535
01:51:38,240 --> 01:51:39,240
A post is a nifty.

1536
01:51:39,240 --> 01:51:41,240
So I can sell my post.

1537
01:51:41,240 --> 01:51:42,240
Yeah.

1538
01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:43,240
Okay.

1539
01:51:43,240 --> 01:51:44,240
And what?

1540
01:51:44,240 --> 01:51:45,240
And then that's cool.

1541
01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:46,240
Yeah.

1542
01:51:46,240 --> 01:51:47,240
Yeah.

1543
01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:48,720
You can sell it if you want to.

1544
01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:51,560
Um, but obviously bear in mind that the stakes on it actually expire.

1545
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:57,040
So although it's, although it's really primo content, it's not guaranteed that its value

1546
01:51:57,040 --> 01:52:01,480
will be stable for all of time because it's not like you're selling an income stream.

1547
01:52:01,480 --> 01:52:04,800
Um, plan to make how price go grow.

1548
01:52:04,800 --> 01:52:06,040
Oh, I don't know.

1549
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:09,480
Probably continue trying to build a useful product and then hopefully people will want

1550
01:52:09,480 --> 01:52:10,480
to use the token.

1551
01:52:10,480 --> 01:52:12,960
Continue, continually, show it on gamer nodes.

1552
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:13,960
Yeah.

1553
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:18,040
So they will fucking marketing on two out 10 fucking viewers.

1554
01:52:18,040 --> 01:52:22,600
I think most of our viewers are howl devs.

1555
01:52:22,600 --> 01:52:24,600
So yeah.

1556
01:52:24,600 --> 01:52:25,600
Shit.

1557
01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:30,680
Like everybody watching this, we know this business plan sucks.

1558
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:36,480
It's basically the thing is game of notes started off as let's film, let's film the

1559
01:52:36,480 --> 01:52:37,480
group call.

1560
01:52:37,480 --> 01:52:42,560
And now it is literally now the drama per second has lowered a bit and we're in a better

1561
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:43,560
market.

1562
01:52:43,560 --> 01:52:46,680
It is just literally the Wednesday group call for the lads.

1563
01:52:46,680 --> 01:52:47,680
That's fine.

1564
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:50,320
That's fine.

1565
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:54,680
To be honest, we are doing pretty well in terms of podcast listening.

1566
01:52:54,680 --> 01:52:58,880
I'm very grateful people have downloaded this podcast.

1567
01:52:58,880 --> 01:52:59,880
Enjoy.

1568
01:52:59,880 --> 01:53:01,600
What are our numbers?

1569
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:02,600
Who cares?

1570
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:03,600
It's great.

1571
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:04,600
Yeah.

1572
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:05,600
It's amazing.

1573
01:53:05,600 --> 01:53:06,600
It's a huge job.

1574
01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:07,600
How are you?

1575
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:09,600
Why are you not real?

1576
01:53:09,600 --> 01:53:12,200
No, it's it's it's growing like this.

1577
01:53:12,200 --> 01:53:14,560
It's growing like it's a huge spike.

1578
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:15,560
Right.

1579
01:53:15,560 --> 01:53:16,560
Shut up.

1580
01:53:16,560 --> 01:53:17,560
Straight fucking line.

1581
01:53:17,560 --> 01:53:22,840
Are you confused about grade or?

1582
01:53:22,840 --> 01:53:26,400
I just read a book really do this for fun anyway.

1583
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:28,560
So we're not like it doesn't matter.

1584
01:53:28,560 --> 01:53:30,560
It doesn't matter.

1585
01:53:30,560 --> 01:53:32,560
It doesn't matter.

1586
01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:33,560
Yeah.

1587
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:34,760
That's good.

1588
01:53:34,760 --> 01:53:36,200
You went through that pretty good, man.

1589
01:53:36,200 --> 01:53:37,200
Yeah.

1590
01:53:37,200 --> 01:53:38,200
Sorry.

1591
01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:40,720
That was that was more than a minute, but hopefully that's what's the release date.

1592
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:46,440
When you when you guys going when can I say it was the first question you said?

1593
01:53:46,440 --> 01:53:47,960
I was ready fucking.

1594
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:49,680
Where's my kids?

1595
01:53:49,680 --> 01:53:54,440
It was it took a lot of effort for me to put the strike through on all these items as you

1596
01:53:54,440 --> 01:53:56,240
are going through it, which I appreciate.

1597
01:53:56,240 --> 01:53:58,960
I know that you appreciated to see that I was appreciate.

1598
01:53:58,960 --> 01:53:59,960
I was yeah.

1599
01:53:59,960 --> 01:54:00,960
I know.

1600
01:54:00,960 --> 01:54:01,960
Very useful.

1601
01:54:01,960 --> 01:54:02,960
Very, very helpful.

1602
01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:03,960
You were doing the striking right.

1603
01:54:03,960 --> 01:54:06,800
I'm not listening to shit on this show.

1604
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:07,800
Yeah.

1605
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:08,800
That's good.

1606
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:09,800
Okay.

1607
01:54:09,800 --> 01:54:11,800
I'll go back and listen to the podcast and understand what I'm talking about.

1608
01:54:11,800 --> 01:54:15,360
It's all just it's all you need to know is it's all just a very, very long form rug

1609
01:54:15,360 --> 01:54:21,840
play where we're going to build features so that we can post external content from the

1610
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:26,360
game of nodes YouTube channel and then rug pull the entire service.

1611
01:54:26,360 --> 01:54:30,320
And then there's no way I mean, no, we have any question about that.

1612
01:54:30,320 --> 01:54:34,440
It's our whole is that a moniker that we set that in the description of this podcast.

1613
01:54:34,440 --> 01:54:40,040
I mean, to be fair, it's essentially it's essentially the rug pull podcast.

1614
01:54:40,040 --> 01:54:41,040
All right.

1615
01:54:41,040 --> 01:54:46,040
Should we wrap up?

1616
01:54:46,040 --> 01:54:47,040
Yeah.

1617
01:54:47,040 --> 01:54:49,040
What are we most excited about this week?

1618
01:54:49,040 --> 01:54:51,040
What's the start?

1619
01:54:51,040 --> 01:54:52,040
Shorty.

1620
01:54:52,040 --> 01:54:53,040
Sleep.

1621
01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:54,440
You got that.

1622
01:54:54,440 --> 01:54:56,520
You got that muscle shirt on.

1623
01:54:56,520 --> 01:54:57,520
Let's see what's going on.

1624
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:00,560
What do you got going on down there and give me to lift my shirt?

1625
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:01,720
You're gonna flash the screen.

1626
01:55:01,720 --> 01:55:02,720
That's not what I said.

1627
01:55:02,720 --> 01:55:04,040
It's not at all when I said that.

1628
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:06,200
I didn't say anything near that.

1629
01:55:06,200 --> 01:55:09,560
I'm actually pretty excited for the Quicksilver test that's coming up.

1630
01:55:09,560 --> 01:55:13,800
I think next week, they just announced that the next round is going to be here and they're

1631
01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:15,280
going to have more features to test out.

1632
01:55:15,280 --> 01:55:16,280
I think it's cool.

1633
01:55:16,280 --> 01:55:22,240
Defund has another one that's coming out here soon that I'm also really excited about.

1634
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:23,720
Cool.

1635
01:55:23,720 --> 01:55:24,720
Nice.

1636
01:55:24,720 --> 01:55:25,720
Sick.

1637
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:26,720
Who's next, bro?

1638
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:31,720
I'll go next and say I'm fucking excited.

1639
01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:38,080
I'll be, I'm just gonna be super excited about finally fucking finishing this moderation

1640
01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:39,080
stuff.

1641
01:55:39,080 --> 01:55:42,640
I need to finish doing the cash shit that I've been talking about for literally six

1642
01:55:42,640 --> 01:55:43,640
weeks.

1643
01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:44,640
Nice.

1644
01:55:44,640 --> 01:55:47,760
That's gonna be sick.

1645
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:48,760
What was that?

1646
01:55:48,760 --> 01:55:51,560
That was a weird muscle.

1647
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:53,640
That was like a muscle move that you were making.

1648
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:54,640
Yeah.

1649
01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:55,920
So I'm in the loft.

1650
01:55:55,920 --> 01:56:01,200
So the ceiling is here because I have my laptop in an alcove.

1651
01:56:01,200 --> 01:56:06,280
So if I go like that, I can do it now actually because there is a window directly above me

1652
01:56:06,280 --> 01:56:07,600
and it's actually open.

1653
01:56:07,600 --> 01:56:11,560
So you can raise the roof but only six to eight inches.

1654
01:56:11,560 --> 01:56:12,560
Is that what you're saying?

1655
01:56:12,560 --> 01:56:14,560
You can't quite see it, but there is actually a window.

1656
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:15,560
Oh, there you go.

1657
01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:16,560
Oh, that's nice.

1658
01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:17,560
Got some breeze.

1659
01:56:17,560 --> 01:56:21,440
So that's why I could actually, I realized actually, I could just do that.

1660
01:56:21,440 --> 01:56:22,440
But perfect.

1661
01:56:22,440 --> 01:56:23,440
But yeah.

1662
01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:25,440
Arms are tiny.

1663
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:29,960
It looked like you had entered a Bukaki party.

1664
01:56:29,960 --> 01:56:35,640
It's a weird transition.

1665
01:56:35,640 --> 01:56:37,640
Yeah.

1666
01:56:37,640 --> 01:56:41,440
So, is that what you got going?

1667
01:56:41,440 --> 01:56:42,440
Oh, am I going next?

1668
01:56:42,440 --> 01:56:43,440
Okay.

1669
01:56:43,440 --> 01:56:47,120
I'll be at Consensus 2022 down in Austin this weekend.

1670
01:56:47,120 --> 01:56:48,200
I'm leaving tomorrow.

1671
01:56:48,200 --> 01:56:56,080
I'm hoping to see if anybody finds me, I have some Rhino stickers and other types of goodies

1672
01:56:56,080 --> 01:56:57,080
to give away.

1673
01:56:57,080 --> 01:57:01,000
If you show me that you are a delegator to Rhino, holy cow, that would be incredible.

1674
01:57:01,000 --> 01:57:02,600
I'll give you a T-shirt.

1675
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:05,800
I got some really bitchin swag that's ready to go around.

1676
01:57:05,800 --> 01:57:06,800
So I'm excited to be on there.

1677
01:57:06,800 --> 01:57:13,360
This is my first conference that I've been involved in as a validator here in the Cosmos.

1678
01:57:13,360 --> 01:57:14,360
So I'm excited.

1679
01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:19,680
There's a Osmosis party Saturday night and trying to get involved in a couple of different

1680
01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:20,680
conversations.

1681
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:27,360
It's always nice to be able to separate the Discord monikers from real people, which is

1682
01:57:27,360 --> 01:57:34,240
why I love Game of Nodes so much because they're great people on this call and our listeners

1683
01:57:34,240 --> 01:57:36,920
as well and the people that interact with the Game of Nodes.

1684
01:57:36,920 --> 01:57:44,240
It's just amazing to be able to put some real personalities behind just an icon and a name,

1685
01:57:44,240 --> 01:57:46,040
which has really been great.

1686
01:57:46,040 --> 01:57:49,760
And so, Collins just said the Osmosis party has been halted.

1687
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:50,760
That's cruel, dude.

1688
01:57:50,760 --> 01:57:53,440
So that Saturday night, the party can never stop.

1689
01:57:53,440 --> 01:57:59,200
So I'm going to try to have a good time this weekend and not be roofied is my goal and

1690
01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:00,280
not bring any ledgers.

1691
01:58:00,280 --> 01:58:01,280
So stay away from me.

1692
01:58:01,280 --> 01:58:04,760
I'm not going to have a ledger fanny pack in front of me with the ledger name on it.

1693
01:58:04,760 --> 01:58:06,080
I'm not going to have any ledgers on me.

1694
01:58:06,080 --> 01:58:07,920
I'm not going to have anything associated to me.

1695
01:58:07,920 --> 01:58:10,200
So just stay away from my knuckles and my kidneys.

1696
01:58:10,200 --> 01:58:13,560
But I'm excited about going down there and those types of things.

1697
01:58:13,560 --> 01:58:15,960
So if you see me down there, that would be great.

1698
01:58:15,960 --> 01:58:22,240
The other thing I'm excited about, I think I've sat in this podcast before I've been

1699
01:58:22,240 --> 01:58:27,560
involved in the helium project a lot, which is a lower one kind of incentive structure

1700
01:58:27,560 --> 01:58:36,480
around being able to build a tremendous amount of nodes across the globe to be able to allow

1701
01:58:36,480 --> 01:58:40,240
small devices to be able to produce lower one packets to be able to produce, you know,

1702
01:58:40,240 --> 01:58:45,560
like GPS locations and other types of information like temperature and other types of things.

1703
01:58:45,560 --> 01:58:49,760
That tool set that we've been looking at for a long time, they're exploring other ecosystems

1704
01:58:49,760 --> 01:58:55,480
to say, hey, we want to look at both, you know, maybe cosmos or we want to look at other

1705
01:58:55,480 --> 01:58:58,400
types of tool sets out there because they're kind of struggling with what they've been

1706
01:58:58,400 --> 01:59:00,000
building on the helium network.

1707
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:02,920
And they're looking at cosmos and kind of a little bit involved in that.

1708
01:59:02,920 --> 01:59:06,920
I know they're looking at a lot of exploration type of things, but helium team will be down

1709
01:59:06,920 --> 01:59:08,480
there in Austin this week as well.

1710
01:59:08,480 --> 01:59:12,280
So I'm hoping to be able to bring some cosmos love to that tool set.

1711
01:59:12,280 --> 01:59:16,720
I think the structure around cosmos and the IBC piece of things and what they're trying

1712
01:59:16,720 --> 01:59:22,320
to do is a really good fit versus maybe other things that might be looking at in terms of

1713
01:59:22,320 --> 01:59:23,760
substrate and other types of areas.

1714
01:59:23,760 --> 01:59:29,760
So that's another area that we're looking at and trying to play a role in.

1715
01:59:29,760 --> 01:59:31,800
And those are that's what I'm excited about this week.

1716
01:59:31,800 --> 01:59:35,520
So that's actually a nice, it's going to be a good weekend and I'm looking forward to

1717
01:59:35,520 --> 01:59:37,800
give you guys an update next Wednesday.

1718
01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:38,800
Awesome.

1719
01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:39,800
No.

1720
01:59:39,800 --> 01:59:40,800
T-Grades coming.

1721
01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:50,800
T-Grades coming.