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And then, yeah, you didn't get me.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent Validator teams.

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Okay, so hello and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent

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Validator teams.

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This week we've got Jorge from Stargaze, who is going to be talking to us about a variety

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of poorly researched questions that we've thought up in the week in the last week, which has

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actually been possibly the lowest DPS.

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Has it been low DPS?

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I was about to say it's been low DPS this week, but there's probably been drama, hasn't

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there?

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Oh, drama.

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I was thinking of DJs for a second.

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I had a bunch of bad D words in there trying to figure out what you're talking about.

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Hold on a second.

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I'm trying to find the last plot.

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No, no, no.

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Drama.

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It's on DPS a lot.

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Yeah, well, it's been incredibly low DPS this week.

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It's a low market.

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Everyone's sort of quiet.

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Lots of people are just back to building and lots of people have just vanished as well.

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So yeah, low drama this week, which is nice.

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Yeah, and then, well, I mean, I guess there's still some of the fallout for UST.

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I guess it's not probably low DPS if you're particularly involved in the terror ecosystem,

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right?

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Well, that's true.

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From what I can gather now, there's people who have been wrecked and I guess hopeful that

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Terror 2 is somewhat of a success so that they can recoup some of their losses.

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And then there's like the dev pool from Terror, which I guess some have lost confidence in

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that ecosystem and are looking to leave whilst others are sticking around and looking to

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rebuild on Terror 2.

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Phoenix 1, I should say now.

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Is it rebranded to Phoenix?

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Or is it just still Terror with a new network name of Phoenix?

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Well, yeah, they had Columbus, didn't they?

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With Columbus 5, the last main net.

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And technically, I think I said this when I first saw that, technically the Juno relaunch

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code name was Phoenix.

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So we kind of got there first with the drama level and then with the name.

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But then obviously we relaunched Juno 1.

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So Terror, the copycat, is that what you're saying?

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Well, I think there was an Eridokwon tweet that was something like, what's Juno?

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Is that just like a copy of?

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Yeah, that's Juno.

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Yeah.

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Shoes are the other foot.

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I feel like that was more like, what's Juno?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, we have a couple of follow-ups from last week.

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So actually related to that, there's a lot of Terror projects that are coming over into

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the cosmos.

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I assume that, Jorge, this has also affected you guys on Stargaze, right?

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Because are there NFT projects that are looking to migrate over in your direction?

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Yeah.

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We received a couple of projects that we're trying to launch on Stargaze as well.

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And I guess the main issue is how do you migrate those?

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Because there are some existing projects that want to migrate and new ones that we're about

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to launch.

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So, yeah, dealing with both.

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So there was an aggregator, I think.

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We're getting some Australian internet on the go there.

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We was asking about different networks to migrate to.

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That could have been the most eloquent thing you've ever said now that was just eaten by

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the internet.

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Devastating.

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Look, it probably wasn't.

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So, it seems like, Jorge, I'm kind of interested in your perspective on this one.

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I've seen, anyway, from just visually seeing some of the projects on Twitter that have

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been talking about the fact that they're thinking of moving over into the cosmos and whatnot,

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is that a lot of these projects relied very heavily on launch pads and whatnot in the...

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I need to stop saying what now.

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What the hell is wrong with me?

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A lot of them rely quite heavily on launch pads and tooling in the terror ecosystem that

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might not yet exist on a loss of cosmos chains.

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Quite a bit of NFT tooling in terror seemed to be quite custom for specific use cases,

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whereas a lot of NFT tooling in cosmos is like...

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Null's left, he's jumped out the window.

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A lot of the NFT tooling in the cosmos is more interoperable by default because there's

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several chains and several teams all building it together, but it's all at a much earlier

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stage, isn't it?

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We don't have these...

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Yeah, exactly.

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For example, currently, there is also teams that are looking to mint more.

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We have a limit on take-a, take-a for collection, and some teams want to mint more because they

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have different processes of minting, so they're like generating art.

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So it's like a single collection, but they will keep minting and minting.

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We are just trying to... and working with them to see how we can get customized in the contracts

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to take these different ways of minting.

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Right, the launch pad, all the tooling on launching a project is quite different, but

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there is already two or three that already made it to launch a collection on Testnet.

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I think probably maybe next week will be when launching.

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Well, that's exciting.

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One of the other things I noticed was that some of the projects are very heavily into

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sort of like rendered assets and all that kind of thing.

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There's some quite sophisticated processing going on in the background in terms of what's

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actually stolen chain and what's not.

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Do you have a feeling on... because I think people's perception of NFT is that everything

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is on chain, right?

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But especially some of the much more things with 3D assets and stuff like that is obviously

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interesting.

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Yeah, currently we are following the OpenSea metadata standards.

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So ultimately, it's stored on IPvS.

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I include the assets.

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On chain, it's like a pointer to the IPvS cache and that's called U-Hutry.

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And this is like some other difference with Gerardo because some of them have on chain

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metadata, but we also will try to come up with on chain metadata in the future as well.

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Cool.

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Okay, so it's not fundamentally incompatible with the way that you guys are already thinking

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about stuff.

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Yeah.

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I guess the main issue is only if it was like an existing project that they have the

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metadata on chain and if they want to come out to Stargaze, then what do you do?

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You will have to move the metadata to IPvS in order to work.

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At least for now, until we go with on chain metadata.

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But for newer projects, they can switch to IPvS.

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I realized we had a couple of things we were going to do because we do follow-ups at the

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top of the show, but now we start talking about Stargaze now.

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So whatever, let's go with it.

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So is on chain metadata something you're actively looking at supporting?

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It's an interesting thing from my perspective personally because obviously the name service

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that we built on Juno is on chain metadata because there's that guarantee that everything

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is stored on chain.

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Yeah, we definitely will have different ways to do it.

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And I think on chain metadata also gives different ways to interact with the marketplace.

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For example, bidding on a specific trade.

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Because on chain, you can do, okay, I just want to bid for a specific trade and it will

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apply to any NFT that matches that trade.

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That's the type of thing that you could do with on chain metadata.

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We are looking to support as well in the future.

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So basically, it's like a text-based metadata.

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Like when you start trying to store, you know, or vector, but using like graphics and sound

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and it's just not feasible to really store it on chain, is it?

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Yeah.

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Currently there is a Commonwealth proposal.

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I don't know if you guys have seen like the Hyperion project.

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Yes, that was very cool.

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I missed out on it when it was first minted.

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So he's working on some custom contracts to launch a generative art site where it will

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take like the creator, like the minter address and the hash of the transaction in order to

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create like these different shapes and forms of.

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So yeah, this requires like using your mint, then this, it will go to the site, it will

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generate like the outcome based on the transaction and then it will submit another transaction

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to finalize the mint with your final asset.

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I think that must be similar to, I think there was an Ethereum project that.

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There's a hardbox, I think.

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Something like that.

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Yeah.

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I think that had like, there was an NFT that's a representation of specific blocks in time.

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Yeah.

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And I think like the cool thing about that is like first it will be like the peer-by-peer

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developer that is adding a new custom contract to Sergace because for those that don't know

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like the governance gated contracts set up, we have for Sergace.

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But it's not like it's only the team that the bloke contracts, but it's more like in

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order to pull contracts, it has to do with what a Stargaze is doing, right?

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In this case, there's NFTs.

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So what would be the process for that hall?

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Hey, will that be like audited by the Stargaze team before they put it up so that you can

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give it your tick?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, the idea will be to fund like audits in order to make sure like nothing like tick

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is on the contract.

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And this setup allows like for the community to check the code because I've seen contracts

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that are deployed that you could not find the source code.

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So at the end, you only trust the team, but without team, the code is like, you don't

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know if something could happen at the end.

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So you guys will like see the code, compile it, check the hash against the code, the contract

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that goes up for the proposal?

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Yeah, exactly.

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You can check like it's the code that is open source, you compile it locally and check with

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the hash that is on the governance proposal.

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Okay.

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Yeah, this is the code that is being deployed.

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Yeah, I think the users and the public probably need to understand that the differences between

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like when we talk about Juno getting hacked and then compare that to like Stargaze or

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OmniFlix or any other platform that uses permission to contracts.

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Like you guys can sort of be a gateway to check the contracts before they go up because

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you don't necessarily need to patch every single wasm vulnerability that comes up because

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you can make sure that they're not doing that before they, you know, and you can talk about

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that during the governance period.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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So, for example, the last two security patches from Custom Wasm, I think like it didn't affect

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us like we assisted like the security implications of the patches, but it doesn't affect it because

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only if the Stargaze team uses the vulnerability in contracts, then you will trigger that vulnerability.

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But yeah, we are not going to do that.

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Exactly.

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You're not going to pwn yourself, but there is like, there is a bit of an issue in the

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cosmos where there's like this vote yes culture.

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Yeah.

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So, you know, it's still as possible that someone could put up a nefarious contract and be voted

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in.

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Yeah, I guess like this is where like the validator community comes.

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Like you need to trust your validators like and probably the data has like other networks

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and like, but you, we as developers like we at least I and keep track of all of our dependencies

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and check for security, whatever it is or give like more information if we really need

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to do like a quick upgrade.

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It's like a, it's a lot of depth to keep a track of for realties.

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Yeah, I guess like at least for the chain side, the most important ones are like go

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because this is what you use to build the binary.

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The SK, IBC go and custom was and those are the most important like upstream dependencies

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that I keep track of.

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Yeah.

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And I'm guessing you have, do you have plans to integrate ICA into chain accounts at some

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point?

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Yeah, I already have a PR open.

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We just want to have a little feature in the next upgrade.

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So like someone has to go and answer on for custom wasm.

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You know, like the main issue right now for us with custom wasm in go and answers like

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it takes a lot of that's for buying.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, so that's on our next upgrade.

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Probably just as a host for now, not as a controller, but just as a host.

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Which will allow other chains to send message to the IBC.

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Yeah, we've started the implementation on Juno side, but as soon as you do the controller

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part, you need the authentication module.

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Yeah, that's the game.

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There's into TX at the moment and into.

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So technically speaking, if you read the documentation into TX does do a minimal, you know, like

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implementation of everything you need for the host authentication module.

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Yeah, yeah, it just has all those warnings where it's like, don't use this seriously,

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don't use this.

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I can't believe you're using this.

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All right, if you use this, your chain's dead.

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Yeah, I'm going to take time and you're like, it will take some time for a chain to be like

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a controller, like because it has some security risk implications.

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And it will just take time to do it.

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Yeah, I think I mean, I can't be sure.

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The annoying thing is the person I'm working on this with is Jabby, who's actually not

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here.

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But we've been talking about it quite a lot.

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And I think we're probably going to back out of the into TX and control the part because

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yeah, yeah, we are just upgrading to IBC three and and check with the host enable for now

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and then figure out like the controller later because we really want to do things like being

238
00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:20,560
able to swap the stars like on this message, for example, through like a star scan.

239
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:27,200
Yeah, because also, well, I guess from from us, it's sort of like it was a it's a bit

240
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:35,200
of a weird one because I think like Juno is like a it's almost like a lot.

241
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,000
It's almost like a landing zone, I think, in a lot of ways, like for particular projects

242
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,000
and things.

243
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,960
And then they kind of go off onto their own chain, the idea in the long term, right, any

244
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,240
protocol that's successful in Juno is eventually going to branch out into an L one of their

245
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,400
own, right?

246
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,360
It's probably the reality.

247
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:55,200
So Juno kind of makes sense as a controller chain.

248
00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:03,120
But you know, although we will implement the host ICA functionality, maybe I'm just not

249
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:10,360
being imaginative enough, but I I'm kind of like, why would I be on osmosis and be executing

250
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,240
wasm instructions on Juno?

251
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:22,600
So yeah, it makes more sense the other way around like, at least for us, like the examples

252
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:28,680
I have right now, it's like swap stars and then send it back to I mean, for the name

253
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,480
service stuff, it is probably the only use case I can think of where it makes sense to

254
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,120
be the host chain.

255
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:41,840
Because you know, you just go, I have this back 32 address, it does that correspond to

256
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:47,120
any known validator, whatever, whatever, whatever that's registered with the name service, then

257
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,960
sure it looks up and it just gives you an interchain query.

258
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,320
But again, that that API isn't really there yet.

259
00:18:54,320 --> 00:19:01,960
So it's like, okay, well, what other services are actually like gasping to use this functionality,

260
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:07,200
the host functionality, probably not many, but you can see how smart contracts and UIs

261
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,920
and things like that where somebody's already interacting with the DAP on Juno that does

262
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,440
something, whatever, you can kind of see like how that might go.

263
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,960
Okay, I want to talk to osmosis or I want to talk to stargaze.

264
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:23,560
I mean, actually, literally with projects that we're working on right now, it's plausible

265
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:29,720
that people who are on that in a kind of more of a social space might want to do something

266
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,960
on stargaze from where they are.

267
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,240
And you're like, okay, sure, that's that's an ICA controller.

268
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,400
Awesome.

269
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,240
But we just need to like, it's actually really hard to implement all of that at the moment

270
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:46,320
because the authentication thing is just like, is left as an exercise to the reader and you're

271
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,040
like, I'm not sure I'm smart enough to actually implement that.

272
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:57,040
Yeah, it's like when you start like to programming and then you have your example like Halo

273
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:04,280
War and then build this big product like Tenco did to that.

274
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:10,280
So here's a potential use the fray.

275
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:17,920
Say for example, someone on another chain, another permissionless smart contract chain

276
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:25,240
or what have you builds like a a dex that is, you know, like one of those dexes that

277
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:31,520
hops between pools to get the best exchange rate.

278
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:40,840
So that is a potential use to use ICA across chain to use execute a wasm contract on Juno

279
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:48,800
swap whilst hopping back through on Osmosis, for example, if it was able to do contracts

280
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,000
like that, I'm not sure if it can.

281
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:57,520
But, you know, things like that where you might want to interact with across.

282
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,120
So Jorge can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is you can you can interact

283
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:06,320
with any message type that is registered to the

284
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:11,000
host.

285
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,480
On the host.

286
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,680
Yeah, for example, we have an able when you do an upgrade, don't you?

287
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,120
And in the upgrade handler, you say all the things you can interact with.

288
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:23,760
So you can look at you can look at our working draft for this.

289
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:29,440
And we basically say, I guess all the major wasm message types, we say, yeah, you can

290
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:30,440
interact with that.

291
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,680
I don't know what you guys are doing, Jorge, but I imagine.

292
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:43,120
Yeah, I guess like, yeah, I guess like just specific messages like the most common, probably

293
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:49,440
just transfer or IDC transfer or in this case, is a kid.

294
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,960
Because it wasn't.

295
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:58,880
Yeah, I think I think we, we maybe have a couple of other cause and wasm ones, which

296
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,160
there's an outstanding question for me saying something like I included them all just in

297
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,880
case we want them, but we probably don't want them.

298
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:14,080
Yeah, because you don't know like the implications of enabling something that you, for example,

299
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:19,880
what if you enable a store code through interchange accounts?

300
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:26,400
Well, that means like someone will submit code through IDC and what will happen to your

301
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,400
setup.

302
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,040
So those are the types of things that you have to carefully evaluate before.

303
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,480
Yeah, I mean, nobody's tried that.

304
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:41,840
That's, you know, whatever what happens when that returns is almost anybody's guess, right?

305
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:50,400
Yeah, probably, probably it will be fine, but potentially will not be fine.

306
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:56,480
So yeah, so I've really derailed us very, very quickly into talking about Stargate.

307
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:03,360
So I was just looking at the spreadsheet and I'm like, we have not followed this at all.

308
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:04,360
Sorry about that.

309
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:07,120
It just like, just excited to have Jorge on the podcast.

310
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:09,280
It's been a while since, it's been a while since we've talked.

311
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,800
So I was just like, yeah, really excited.

312
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,520
I was looking, I was just looking back at the, it's weird that it took this kind of

313
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,760
terror collapse read understand how just how big that universe is.

314
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,360
I was looking at some of the, you said about the number of terror FT NFT projects.

315
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:29,640
And I found a webpage with, you know, 250, they're active and another 200 that are,

316
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,760
that are being planned and for release, I, it's just, I don't know, I miss this, but

317
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:39,160
wow, there's a significant number of projects out there in there.

318
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:45,040
So Jorge, I just want to bring something up while we're talking about NFTs and it's

319
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:56,000
terror and stargaze and omniflux and et cetera, all the cosmos NFT platforms and projects.

320
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:01,640
So we touched on this a little bit when Shane and sis lover on here the other day, because

321
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,720
it's just like a burning question I have that I'd like to keep bringing up interrupt

322
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,080
on NFTs.

323
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:18,360
So I bought up the concept that a aggregator, which can actually bring together all the

324
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:27,120
projects and all the platforms into one UI UX and be able to trade and transfer across

325
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:37,080
which we raise the issues of like the interoperability of NFTs is not probably there yet because

326
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,840
of the different standards that everyone uses like some people use modules other people

327
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:51,880
use smart contracts, not necessarily what we're trying to follow the ICS specification.

328
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:57,680
So either it is like the native module or contracts issue work.

329
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:04,200
The only thing like it's unclear at the moment is royalties because the ICS specification

330
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:12,840
doesn't say code to handle those and it leaves up to the implementation to handle royalties.

331
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:19,840
So that will be the main issue like for example, I don't want to pay royalties for selling

332
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,560
my NFT, then I will move to a different chain to sell it with a royalty.

333
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,880
So how do you handle that?

334
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:34,560
It's like governance gate set of chains where you can send your NFTs in order to like honor

335
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,200
these royalties.

336
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:43,680
But yeah, I think that will be like the main issue, but in terms of interoperability, like

337
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:52,560
we have like Mike working on only on writing the contracts for ICS.

338
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:59,520
So he did like the Ethereum part for gravity bridge and he's working on the custom wasam

339
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,720
side to do the ICS specification.

340
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:08,200
So are you guys talking with other chains like OmniFlex to that when you're working

341
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,200
at that certification?

342
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:17,840
Yeah, the ICS specification where it was at work from many people.

343
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:24,400
And I think it was merged recently by like the final version.

344
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:30,200
I don't know if like, at least we are working on the custom wasam like implementation.

345
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:38,280
I don't know if there is teams working on the co-module side for other implementation.

346
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:45,760
So since that conversation the other day, Frey and Ysirpa, I have seen one such project

347
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:54,880
rear its head who I think are talking with Stargaze at the moment as a NFT aggregator.

348
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:55,880
Would that be right?

349
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:56,880
Paul Ho?

350
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:57,880
Sorry?

351
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:04,080
I think I've seen a project raise its head as an aggregator in the recent weeks.

352
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,680
Have you heard anything about that?

353
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,680
No.

354
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:08,680
No?

355
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:09,680
Okay.

356
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:10,680
Maybe I'm crazy.

357
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:11,680
Maybe I'm too alpha.

358
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,680
I don't know.

359
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,000
Too alpha for the chains itself.

360
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,120
You're so far ahead of it.

361
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:25,520
Was that a native Cosmos project or was that one of these many terror projects that is

362
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:31,760
talked about coming over to the Cosmos and huffing and puffing and blowing our house

363
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:32,760
down?

364
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:33,760
Probably the latter.

365
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,440
I don't know why I accredit them to the Big Bad Wolf actually.

366
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,440
They're very welcoming.

367
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,560
They are very large and welcoming tents.

368
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:46,600
There's a lot of space to piss out of this tent.

369
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,120
I mixed so many metaphors there.

370
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:50,240
I just committed to something very wrong.

371
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:51,240
It's a good thing.

372
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,800
It's like, terror folks, you're welcome to come into our large comfortable tent and join

373
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:56,800
us in pissing out.

374
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,000
Put it this way.

375
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,120
Our blocks are not yet full.

376
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:08,360
We need to fill those blocks for the end of the 12-year mark.

377
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:09,360
Exactly.

378
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:15,320
We used to film at the Seller today, weren't we?

379
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,960
I was having a bit of a, I've been programming for several hours, my brain is toast moment.

380
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,200
I was like, hang on a minute, guys.

381
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,000
What happens when there's no minting?

382
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,000
I was like, fees.

383
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,120
But wait, everybody's going to unsteak.

384
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:31,600
You're like, yeah, fees.

385
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,880
I was like, the fees won't be enough.

386
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,160
The fees might actually not be enough.

387
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,760
It's just funny that you're coming to that realization.

388
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,880
You've been so involved with it since the get-go and you're like, hang on.

389
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:46,880
Hold on a second.

390
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,320
Wait a minute.

391
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,440
The inflation runs out after 12 years.

392
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,720
I haven't had any sleep since Prop 16 started.

393
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,960
This week has been the first time I've been able to do something that wasn't something

394
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,800
on fire needs putting out.

395
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,280
I've been able to do normal person work.

396
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,200
But you've managed to come across a in 12 years time fire.

397
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,440
I'm freaked out.

398
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,760
You should be freaked out too.

399
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,240
Upgrade, change the module, keep in play.

400
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,240
New Genesis bucket.

401
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,240
Yeah, exactly.

402
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,240
Yeah.

403
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,720
New Genesis, block height one.

404
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,720
Exactly.

405
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,720
Bucket.

406
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:25,720
Start over.

407
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:26,720
Phoenix.

408
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:27,720
Phoenix.

409
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,520
Jorge, what's the Stargate strategy there?

410
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,440
Because you guys don't have a limit, do you?

411
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:34,920
It's just mint forever?

412
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:35,920
Yeah.

413
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,720
It's just for a billion.

414
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:44,040
It will reduce in six months by a fair.

415
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:50,480
But the Stargate model is different in that there is NFT royalties distributed, right?

416
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:51,480
Yeah.

417
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:58,200
So, for example, every time you trade mint or create a collection, it gets like 2% fee,

418
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:04,160
which is 1% is foreign and the other it will go to the stakers.

419
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,160
Yeah.

420
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,960
So, I think, well, I mean, that must be similar on omniflicks because my validator account

421
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:18,440
just keeps having all these random coins show up in there when people trade and mint and

422
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:24,560
stuff is just like Adam and Wawa and God knows what else.

423
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:25,560
Yeah.

424
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,760
Because they don't even have their own coin yet, really.

425
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,760
There's always other dust just keeps showing up.

426
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,760
I'm like, what is this shit?

427
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,760
God knows what else.

428
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,840
That's going to be a nightmare when it comes to do tax on that for some of you fellas and

429
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,200
you're like, just all this thing is not up.

430
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,000
Because I don't think you even have to actually claim it.

431
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,000
It just shows up.

432
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:54,000
So, yeah, it will be part of the distribution.

433
00:30:54,000 --> 00:31:00,560
Since we are the moment we just take stars for fees and trading, everything is just in

434
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,160
the stars.

435
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:11,120
I think I've started accepting Adam as a fee for transactions.

436
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,720
Have any of you guys started doing that?

437
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:20,680
I didn't, but they've started fucking showing up nevertheless, which I'm not fully sure

438
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,240
I can explain given that they're not configured for our validator.

439
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,440
So Adam's showing up when you're a validator.

440
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,440
Yeah.

441
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,760
I think we read that module.

442
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,920
Either somebody is trolling us by sending us Adam.

443
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,720
No, no, because it's definitely rewards.

444
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:46,600
It's definitely because I checked our monitoring the other day and I was like, this is like

445
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,520
a third of an atom or something.

446
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:55,480
I was like, yeah, as much as has this cool thing where you configure your gas prices

447
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:56,480
in Osmo.

448
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:08,400
I think it can accept in different denominations, but since they have access to the spot prices,

449
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:14,600
it will be compared to the cool thing in Osmo in order to charge the same fee.

450
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,600
That's cool.

451
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:17,960
So yeah, wow, geez.

452
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:24,280
But that means the validator would need to dynamically change their...

453
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:31,760
No, they specify the Osmo gas prices and then if you pay in different denominations, it

454
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,760
will be computed.

455
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,720
So it swaps it to Osmo, does it?

456
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:39,720
It does.

457
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:48,480
So for example, you'd be like, I want to charge one micro Osmo, for example.

458
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,320
Then if you are paying different denomination, it will check if it is...

459
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:58,800
If it meets the minimum requirement by doing this spot price conversion.

460
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,680
Yeah, right.

461
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:01,680
Okay.

462
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:08,960
So I don't suppose that you can shed any light on the distribution of alternate denominations

463
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,480
as fees.

464
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,800
Do you know anything about that?

465
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:19,480
Because I've just realized that we're all baffled by it.

466
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:25,520
Well, on Juno, isn't it that if you set...

467
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:36,080
If you set that you also accept the IBC Denom that is atom that comes over IBC with the

468
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,760
big old hash, then technically you're accepting atom.

469
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:46,480
As long as our magic IBC world doesn't break and you could do the same for stars, you could

470
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:52,280
do the same for whatever, the difference with Osmo is that they, I guess, know the prices.

471
00:33:52,280 --> 00:34:01,840
Yeah, the thing is how do you dynamically change the value because prices will be different.

472
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:09,960
So for example, if atom goes up or down, it will be different with your local chain denomination.

473
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:10,960
So the...

474
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,880
And the response is what they're trying to do is to charge the same, even if there is

475
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,440
different prices on your terminations.

476
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:23,040
Yeah, so I mean, yeah, we can't do anything about that in Juno at the moment.

477
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:28,920
Just set and forget and change it when there's a big change in difference, I guess.

478
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:35,400
So we've put it in the Juno docs to set it at a certain amount, which is sort of...

479
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:36,400
One's definitely cheaper.

480
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,080
We've probably better look at that ratio, but you don't want to have like point little

481
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,080
little.

482
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:51,560
But anyway, what I was sort of getting to is that Frey has atom, IBC atom showing up

483
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:59,400
on his validator, as you just said, but you don't accept the NOM as a fee.

484
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,320
It's because someone is accepting it.

485
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:07,560
So at the end, it's not the validator that gets the rewards, but it goes to the fee

486
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,040
distribution module and then it's split for everyone.

487
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:17,880
So would that mean that you would need to be delegated to a validator that's accepting

488
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,000
the NOM?

489
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,760
It's like for everyone.

490
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:31,240
For example, that's why someone having zero gross prices affect everyone because then everyone

491
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:34,720
doesn't get the fees for that.

492
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:36,600
Wait, hang on.

493
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:37,600
Hang on.

494
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:38,600
Hang on.

495
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:39,600
Yeah, that's not...

496
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,840
I'm about to say something that has just freaked me out.

497
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,360
I'm really hoping that Jorge is going to tell me that's not how it works.

498
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,480
That stuff is checked for.

499
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,880
Don't worry, there are regression tests for that.

500
00:35:51,880 --> 00:36:00,440
What's the stop me, essentially, what's the stop me putting a garbage Denom in the accepted

501
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:09,520
Denom's from one validator that is a part of consensus so that every time that validator

502
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,840
proposes, it's going to propose garbage.

503
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:17,800
It can only include transactions when they are proposing.

504
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,160
Other validators will skip it.

505
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,800
But that would potentially mean that one one hundredth of all transactions would just

506
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,600
go totally askew, right?

507
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:33,200
In this case, if they're accepting fees with different denominations.

508
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,120
All right, because the fees don't need to be signed off, don't they, by the signer?

509
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,120
Yeah.

510
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:39,120
So it still has to exist.

511
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,360
So when the user pays the fee, it still has to exist.

512
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,880
So even if you put some garbage, total garbage, it doesn't work.

513
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:47,880
Yeah.

514
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:54,160
However, I thought for a second, I was like, holy shit, you could just get like a third

515
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,720
of the network to just change the fucking Denom.

516
00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:59,320
No, it actually exists on change.

517
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,440
On the supply.

518
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:09,080
So are you saying that if say SG1 has SG1 point and they're like, you know, the next

519
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,800
number one validator, they sign fucking way more blocks than anyone else, that if they

520
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:24,200
change SG1 coin as the denomination and delete Juno, they can just sell their SG1 coin and

521
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,880
and then just, you know, one third of the transactions on the network can go with their

522
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,360
coin as the as the gap.

523
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:32,360
Yeah.

524
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:33,360
Fuck that.

525
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:34,360
Delete this podcast.

526
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:35,360
Fuck that.

527
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,360
Delete this.

528
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,360
Holy shit.

529
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,360
Shut the shit down.

530
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:39,360
It's a network.

531
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,360
It is a network tack from under the hood.

532
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:42,360
It is.

533
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,540
It validator can do that if they have a.

534
00:37:44,540 --> 00:37:46,640
It's the same as setting zero gas prices.

535
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,560
Like a node can include transactions with selfie and.

536
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,840
Game of nodes coin coming soon.

537
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:54,840
Oh my God.

538
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,480
I'm really just fucking you guys.

539
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:57,720
Yeah, that's why.

540
00:37:57,720 --> 00:37:59,920
GON here comes.

541
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,800
Everything's called the Denom.

542
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:09,840
It has like a minimum gas prices between into their chain, so you can add it like, like,

543
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,520
because it's not part of the consensus, like it's on the anti handler.

544
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:19,160
So it doesn't make it to the mental, but you may get part of the consensus, like a minimum

545
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:20,600
gas price requirement.

546
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,440
Then if everyone doesn't.

547
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,320
Follow that, then you will get.

548
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,040
Just told you will sign different.

549
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,040
Look.

550
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,040
So yeah.

551
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,640
So yeah, until you, until you either make it a part of consensus, there has to be an

552
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:41,440
accepted amount of the accepted to norm or you change the anti handler to validate the

553
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:42,440
Denom.

554
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:43,440
Yeah.

555
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,040
Then technically you can attack a network as a validator.

556
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,040
You can.

557
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:49,040
Yes.

558
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,040
Yeah.

559
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,040
Yeah.

560
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,040
Yeah.

561
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,440
With potentially like you could cause, I feel like with that with like 10% of voting

562
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,880
power, you could cause way more chaos than.

563
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,240
Or say a small group of independent cosmos validators.

564
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:06,440
I guess like it doesn't make sense.

565
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:13,320
Like in the case of fees, because then you are just putting more pressure to your notes

566
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,040
because other value areas won't be accepting that fee.

567
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,320
So they will have to sit in your mental in order to be included in that blog.

568
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,760
So basically you are just attacking yourself as a validator by doing that.

569
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,480
But also, you know, it's only due to your proposed.

570
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:32,480
Well, sure.

571
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,880
But like this could be a competitive advantage.

572
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,560
Like what if you just went, okay, well, let's say you're onboarding a bunch of new Terry

573
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,600
users, you've got wrapped USDC coming over from axelar.

574
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,400
You just say, okay, well, my validator accepts fucking wrapped USDC.

575
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,120
You know, who else does?

576
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,120
Boom.

577
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:52,440
You're going to collect those fees.

578
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,720
That's a competitive advantage for your validator.

579
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:57,520
Where everyone will collect them.

580
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,520
Like I bring the mention.

581
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,520
Of course, because I go to the transaction.

582
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,520
All the fees go to the, yeah.

583
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:04,520
Okay.

584
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,520
I'm not an evil genius.

585
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:07,520
Don't worry about it.

586
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:13,800
No, but at the same time, you can like push your shit coin as a, as a fee mechanism instead

587
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,160
of the native coin.

588
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,560
So you can sell your shit coin as, as fee gas.

589
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:25,480
But in terms of like attacking the network, I guess, is the does the wasm module because

590
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:31,000
you can set the, the gas in the fur upload contracts, right?

591
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:36,320
And, and I'm instantiating contracts like can that be used with a shit coin or is that

592
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,000
like the native coin only?

593
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,000
Okay.

594
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,800
Yeah, that's the attack vector.

595
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,800
Yeah, that's true.

596
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:43,800
Yeah.

597
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,800
Especially, yeah, that's actually a really good point.

598
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:47,800
Yeah.

599
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:54,200
If you start accepting or Kerberus, then you can just spam the network with contracts.

600
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:55,200
Yeah.

601
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:01,800
It will affect like the, the validators that have like a lower hardware as their setup.

602
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:09,160
Like, I guess in order to attack or to expand, you, you can have like a big machine.

603
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,840
If you are proposing like often and then just a start up what in codes because it won't

604
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:19,760
cause you to do it in this case, but you will to pay in just with this fake denominations.

605
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:25,920
And you will say the nose that can candle that big chunks of transactions.

606
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,840
I've just thought of a second.

607
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:34,720
I've actually just thought of an actual viable attack using this and I'm not going to say

608
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:37,480
it because I know it can take down a network.

609
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:38,720
I think I've got it.

610
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,680
Well, I think we are in should delete this podcast.

611
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:47,000
I just want it just a small recap or 48 minutes and number one, we haven't touched a single

612
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,520
item on our agenda and number two, we've defined how to take down every cosmos chain.

613
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,640
Is that, is that kind of the tail?

614
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:54,960
Every wasm chain.

615
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:55,960
Every wasm chain.

616
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:56,960
Excuse me.

617
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:57,960
Yeah.

618
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:58,960
Every wasm chain.

619
00:41:58,960 --> 00:41:59,960
Oh wait.

620
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:00,960
The way every commission was wasm chain.

621
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:01,960
So, especially permissionless.

622
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:02,960
Yeah.

623
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,640
We don't allow, well, we don't allow like a plug in code.

624
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,000
So, do a few three check.

625
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,880
Only, only, only the fray is sweating in this four blocker of video here.

626
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:15,880
Yeah.

627
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:16,880
But it's okay.

628
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,400
Or is it cool as a cucumber down there?

629
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:21,400
Yeah.

630
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:27,200
Fellas, I know how to take down Juno again with a pretty easy exploit.

631
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:32,600
If anybody wants to buy this exploit, my Juno address is, let me read it out.

632
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,600
It'll be in the show notes tonight.

633
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:35,600
Yeah.

634
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:36,600
Yeah.

635
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:37,600
Just let me read the show notes.

636
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:38,600
Yeah.

637
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,480
So, it sent me, sent me 3 million USDC, not USDT.

638
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:43,600
Nice try.

639
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,040
To my address.

640
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,280
Fun story.

641
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,280
I haven't actually been able to send any USDC anywhere.

642
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,480
Okay.

643
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,480
Well, I can't send it on Osmosis to anyone.

644
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,120
Every time I try it, it just fails.

645
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:05,680
But that's probably the name for this, for this episode is Game of Nodes 12, Delete This

646
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:06,680
Episode.

647
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:07,680
Yeah.

648
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:08,680
Probably.

649
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:18,160
So, Jorge, there's, I'm looking, I'm looking, we do actually have episode notes, the things

650
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:19,640
we want to cover.

651
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:25,480
And I noticed that Yussepa has put some technical questions that we have been asked to me in

652
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,240
some stuff that he wants to talk about.

653
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:33,160
So, I feel like Yussepa, do you want to, do you want to raise some of your questions and

654
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,880
your thoughts about the recent Stargates marketplace?

655
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,400
Because I think that's where some of the infrastructure questions come.

656
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,680
And we've also got some questions about the roadmap as well.

657
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:48,160
And some of our listeners, listeners watches have also asked some questions about things

658
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:49,560
like NFT interop and stuff.

659
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,320
So we'll cover off some of those as well.

660
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,240
Just in case they're in the chat going, why haven't you asked our questions?

661
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:56,240
Which they might be.

662
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,800
I think the history was we were talking about this a little bit last week, I believe, we

663
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:04,360
were talking about the launch of the marketplace and just the growth of RPC calls.

664
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,640
And there were some questions around the caching layer and those types of things.

665
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,120
And then because you and I talked about it really briefly within Discord, and then Jake

666
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,280
came on and said, kind of talking through it.

667
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,360
So that's the reason we thought of this conversation here.

668
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:23,280
So maybe give us a little bit of an overview of the Stargates tech stack, maybe from top

669
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:24,360
to bottom a little bit.

670
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,960
And then we can maybe dump in some of those items.

671
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,960
I can talk more about the interest of.

672
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:39,360
I've been involved a little, but so we have like the RPC knows like in different geographic

673
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:45,160
locations currently we are using clover to, to, to distribute like the law.

674
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:52,120
So it, it will hit the closest data center or closest now to your location, like you

675
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:59,720
as a user to reduce like the latency to, to do queries or send transactions.

676
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:08,520
I think like in the last seven days, we have received like 800 million requests now to

677
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:13,040
or press 10 RPC and prints.

678
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:22,360
And the other layer on top of that RPC I introduced like right before the marketplace is like

679
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,200
a caching layer.

680
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,880
And we have like many complaints.

681
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,640
We don't have like an indexer yet.

682
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,960
We are working that.

683
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:37,480
But then we rely on the public knows RPC and rest 10 points.

684
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,040
But it was taken too long to load your profile.

685
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:46,600
And that's because it'll for each collection, there's like a different instance of a contract.

686
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:54,120
So you have to query if each contract to get which NFTs I use her owns on this contract

687
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,120
and so on for every collection.

688
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,600
So that's why it took like too long to do it.

689
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:07,000
So we, I made this API to, to do it like on the back end insert.

690
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:13,600
So when you first request your profile, it, because it's, it's in also it will like just

691
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:20,600
throw go routines at the same time to query all the contracts at the same time and get

692
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:26,960
all the NFTs you on and then retrieve metadata retrieve like if they have like a price associated

693
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,640
to the NFT.

694
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:35,960
And it was really nice because like your profile loads now, I guess under a second.

695
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:36,960
Yeah.

696
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,560
It's really, it's really fast.

697
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:39,560
Yeah.

698
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:45,640
But that increases the amount of quotes to, to on RPCs and rest 10 points.

699
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:52,520
But it's impressive like call the contracts because we are going to contracts and they

700
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:58,000
are taking like really huge amount of calls.

701
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:05,120
And I think like since we are using the permission custom was my approach contracts are being

702
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:06,240
by default.

703
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,560
So they are kept in memory on every node.

704
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:18,160
So when you try to execute a query or a transaction to a contract, it's already memory the contract,

705
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:23,480
so it will take less time to do the execution and they're responding very fast now.

706
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:31,560
I think like it, the beginning contracts helps with gas cost and, and query time.

707
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:37,600
So yeah, I think some of the interest we have is go ahead.

708
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:38,600
Sorry, Frank.

709
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,440
I was just saying it's interesting that pin by default.

710
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:46,480
I hadn't realized that that was so is they pin when, when you instantiate governance

711
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:52,280
contracts, are they pin by default or is that something you specifically done as, as if

712
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,520
you will pull up quotes through governance, they are being by default.

713
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:02,120
So you don't have to submit like that additional governance products to pin contracts.

714
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:08,320
At the end since each instance, it just uses the same code ID.

715
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:09,320
Yeah.

716
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,480
It's, it's faster like having the contracts been.

717
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:19,920
And I think that that's why we suggested that it was to increase the, the memory allocate

718
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:25,440
to pin contracts because there are cash and it will be faster to execute transactions.

719
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:31,080
So where is that caching layer?

720
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:40,120
Yeah, that caching layer we are using provider, which is kind of like Heroku.

721
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:46,720
I know I, I never use Heroku, but it's called fly IO, I think.

722
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:51,960
So the cool thing about this is like to define your container, your Docker container, for

723
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:58,120
example, and then you just choose, I want to avoid this to, to these regions and have

724
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:02,280
these other regions as backups in case like they can deploy to a region, they will deploy

725
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,800
to a different region.

726
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,960
And they have like any cast network.

727
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:13,520
So they give you like the URL and it's basically the same as Clofure, where it will keep the

728
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,320
closest data center.

729
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:23,280
So we are using both right now Clofure and this other service to serve the APIs.

730
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:28,080
And that's if that service needs data, it just calls the standard Cloudflare RPC APIs

731
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,240
to the region.

732
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,360
So it just, and then Cloudflare takes over to figure out what the closest region is and

733
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,560
then yeah, everything like ties together.

734
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:42,720
Like, we are using the a band that's our Clofure setup and this other service to get the closest

735
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:44,240
and helps as well.

736
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:47,080
Well, the volume is pretty much staying where it was.

737
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:54,200
I mean, after the marketplace launched, it was a thousand to 2000 requests a second on

738
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:55,200
the back end.

739
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,160
And it's, I mean, right now, even as we're talking, it's 850.

740
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,360
So it just kind of continues.

741
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:02,360
It's pretty stable.

742
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,480
Europe is definitely higher than I think the rest of the US, although, you know, around

743
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:11,680
this time it's about even because it looks like a lot of folks are, are on the marketplace.

744
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:18,760
The other thing is like, since we are running like the public infrastructure, like everyone

745
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,880
uses the endpoints.

746
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:26,640
So for example, if you have used Cobble, I think they use or endpoints and the, and

747
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,560
other tooling as well.

748
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:37,400
So it's hard at the end to maintain the public infrared because if everyone is relying on

749
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:44,040
that, if you go down, like it will affect other parts.

750
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,120
So that's, that's like an idea of the throughput.

751
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:52,000
A question that we've had a couple of times actually on Twitter was, do you have any idea

752
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,880
on the volume as in volume of sales?

753
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,840
I mean, a lot of those hits will be people browsing, but yeah, some of them will be selling.

754
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:07,440
I've certainly noticed just from a cursory look at like what the floor is on a given

755
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:12,720
day and how it's moving and stuff that it feels like there's a lot of NFTs trading hands

756
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:13,720
at the moment.

757
00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:18,600
Do you guys know, have any idea of like what those numbers are?

758
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:23,400
We just have, since we are still working on our indexer, we don't have like the detailed

759
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:27,400
data, but we are working on it, but let me see.

760
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:34,760
I can change, change with Star.

761
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:45,880
Yeah, I think like, like 20 million stars in buys, maybe in the last week.

762
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:46,880
Wow.

763
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,600
20 million stars in buys, is that what you said?

764
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:50,600
Yeah.

765
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,600
And that's like 1% is born.

766
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:55,600
So yeah.

767
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:02,280
So there's a lot of stuff going up in smoke right now.

768
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:09,160
At Stargaze, I know Juno has a 12 year inflation, is that the right term?

769
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:10,160
What's the right term?

770
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:11,160
Minting schedule.

771
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,160
Minting schedule?

772
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:13,160
Yeah.

773
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:14,160
I mean schedule, right?

774
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:15,160
No schedule.

775
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:16,160
Minting cliff.

776
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,160
Minting cliff.

777
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:18,680
Stargaze is five, it's five years.

778
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:19,680
Is that right?

779
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,200
No, we have like this field earning.

780
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,280
So each year is reduced by a third.

781
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:32,200
So in theory, like, yeah, it will take, I don't know, it was like five or seven, something

782
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:33,200
like that.

783
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,640
But it falls off pretty quick, right?

784
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:41,440
It will never reach like the 4 billion, but it would just keep reducing and reducing.

785
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:48,080
The target, you could, you could say like it's 4 billion.

786
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:53,560
But yeah, since we have like the trading volume, then like all the stakers will still receive

787
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,520
like that.

788
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,000
Rewards for staking.

789
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,000
Yeah.

790
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:00,000
Right.

791
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,360
So what's your, what's like the next steps on the roadmap?

792
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,400
I know you've mentioned the indexer, but presumably there's some other things coming

793
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:08,600
up too.

794
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:17,200
In terms of the backend like infrastructure, yeah, the indexer, it's taking a little bit

795
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:23,760
of time because we have different products or features that we want to launch.

796
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:31,840
So we want to make it part of like, usually you pull like the blockchain data and then

797
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,440
parse the messages.

798
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:41,080
So we're trying to split this into just the indexer that pulls all the data and then puts

799
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:48,720
all the information into a stream, like a Kafka stream, for example, so that we want

800
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:54,560
to support like replaying all the history in case you need like a new feature, but hey,

801
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,920
I missed data from like, I don't know, a week before.

802
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:05,240
So we want to be able to replay all the history without hitting nodes again because full nodes

803
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:09,520
are really slow when you try to query.

804
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:15,440
So we are trying to overload like just index everything, everything like blocks and transactions

805
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,760
into S3 buckets.

806
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:24,600
And then when you want to replay, you only will fetch from S3 block, S3 storage and not

807
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,600
relying on pull nodes.

808
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,000
Is that going to be like Parquet or something like that?

809
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,000
Sorry?

810
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,960
Is that going to be like Parquet or something like that?

811
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,120
Or is it going to be like literally streams?

812
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,440
Yeah, streams.

813
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:45,560
So the idea is like integrate different services that just you want a new service just attached

814
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,960
to the stream and start receiving like transactions or whatever data you want.

815
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:56,080
Right, so just like, you're kind of like a source sync type situation.

816
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:06,000
And in terms of the marketplace, the contract already has like different features like beats,

817
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:12,720
like the old channel and we have like beating on collections, which is not part of the front

818
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:17,560
end yet because we are waiting to the final audit report to come back.

819
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,600
We need to do some adjustments.

820
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:28,120
So the safest is just like the buy now, which is just doesn't rely on the contract to hold

821
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:34,960
any funds because you just buy and then you will send the funds to the seller royalties.

822
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:39,560
But yeah, I think that those will be the upcoming features.

823
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:47,960
I guess the one I like is like the beating on collections because you can be, for example,

824
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,600
you want a bad kid, you don't care which one you just beat.

825
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:58,400
I want to pay 100 stars for a bad kid and anyone with a bad kid can take the beat and

826
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,600
accept the offer.

827
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:01,600
Right.

828
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:02,600
That's cool.

829
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:07,400
So the question of the eBay thing where you can say, I will sell this for this price,

830
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,320
but it's kind of coming from the buyer end.

831
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:14,200
Yeah, like a two way to be a little strong.

832
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:18,560
So a nerdy question on incentive mechanisms.

833
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,840
What's the auction model you're using for the auction contracts?

834
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:30,720
Right now it's just like just beats and the seller will have to accept the offer they

835
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:31,720
want.

836
00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:35,600
It's not like a victory or anything.

837
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:43,560
Yeah, but yeah, we are planning on adding more different mechanics to auction style,

838
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:50,120
like a Dutch, US Dutch auction style to discover very pricing for NFTs.

839
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:58,160
I was kind of curious because I think I saw either you or Shane tweeting the Tim Ruff

840
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:05,720
Garden blockchain series recently and obviously Tim Ruff Garden did a series on economic incentives

841
00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:08,240
and game theory and whatnot.

842
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:16,040
And as a very lapsed economics person from way back in the day, I rewatched it sometime

843
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:21,480
ago in lockdown and I was just like, I wonder if that's because they've been designing their

844
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:22,480
auction mechanics.

845
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:23,880
So I was kind of curious.

846
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,600
Yeah, so yeah, I think like there is more features.

847
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:31,520
I can really say more, but yeah, there will be more cool features.

848
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,360
We have like a huge roadmap now.

849
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:43,040
And we're just trying to prioritize the most requested ones because everyone wants like

850
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:50,480
different things, you know, like they want like say a history volume and everything inside

851
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,000
the marketplace.

852
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:58,880
And when you go to like, for example, Osmosis, if you want to know like information about

853
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,560
like a pool, you go to info.osmosis.

854
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,840
It's not like built in the main Osmosis site.

855
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:12,800
But yeah, we are trying to, we don't like this is like very important for trading NFTs

856
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:17,440
and trying to build it for the marketplace.

857
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:18,440
Cool.

858
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:23,280
And there's a question.

859
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,800
Kid is gas.

860
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,840
Kid is gas.

861
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,840
Yeah.

862
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:37,480
So I think we said last week, the funniest thing that I heard in Prague was that bad

863
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,640
kids are the blue chip NFT.

864
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,160
What do you, what do you think about that?

865
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:43,160
Somebody say that.

866
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:44,160
Yeah.

867
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:45,160
Yeah.

868
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:46,160
They're cool.

869
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:51,320
We will have to see volume, but I guess like there is like huge sales right now for bad

870
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,720
kids and also for Stargaze points.

871
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,680
I think like probably those two, I'm not really sure.

872
00:58:58,680 --> 00:58:59,680
Yeah.

873
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:00,680
What was the second one?

874
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:01,680
Stargaze, what?

875
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:02,680
Box.

876
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:03,680
Yeah.

877
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:04,680
Stargaze points.

878
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:05,680
I should have bought more bad kids.

879
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,920
I sold one, which was shocking.

880
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,680
I just put one out there just to mess with the marketplace and then it went.

881
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:12,680
I was like, shit.

882
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,680
Damn it.

883
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:22,160
I'm just watching like the cobalt stream for new listings and sales.

884
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:23,160
Yeah.

885
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:29,320
To add your tier list, I'm sure it's on your list, but the idea of like I sold it.

886
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:30,320
I want to see if it's for sale.

887
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:31,320
I want to see if who else sold it.

888
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:32,800
I want to see how much money I lost.

889
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:33,800
Yeah.

890
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,240
Clearly I made the wrong decision selling it.

891
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:40,400
So how wrong was my decision?

892
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,400
That's always good to know.

893
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:49,440
I have curiosity, what's your favorite collection that's been on Stargaze or hey?

894
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:50,440
I think I know what Shane's is.

895
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,240
I'm pretty sure Shane's is glitch candy or Hyperion.

896
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,840
I don't know.

897
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,760
Like there's multiple ones that I like.

898
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:01,760
Yeah.

899
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:12,680
Probably Hyperion is because all the the cutting side that I'm impressed with that same for

900
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,040
glitch candies and of course like bad kids.

901
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:20,160
My avatar right now is like Hyperion.

902
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,200
I'm disappointed that my glitch candies are worth less than the random bad kid that I

903
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:25,200
want.

904
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,400
Like one bad kid is I think it's worth more than two of the glitch candies.

905
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:29,400
I'm like,

906
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,680
Can you just go glitch candy, Mad?

907
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:33,680
Yeah.

908
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:34,680
A little bit.

909
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:39,520
I, well, so I don't have any.

910
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:47,280
We need a cast have six.

911
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:48,280
We've been a chance to validate.

912
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:53,120
We've been involved in Stargaze test nets from literally when the discord opened.

913
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:54,120
Yeah.

914
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:55,800
Like it was our first chain as well.

915
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,240
Like so it's like, oh, we're going to support the network.

916
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:02,000
But then we got two of them greedy.

917
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,760
The whole experience of the test nets are really nice.

918
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:11,880
Like we as the Stargaze also made mistakes on test nets, but that came out with good

919
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,680
things like, for example, a bear integration testing.

920
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:23,560
Like there, I remember like in one test net, like we broke IBC because wiring issues and

921
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:30,280
the big app.go which is a mess to maintain.

922
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:37,840
So every time there is an upgrade, we test like the previous version can connect to cosmoses

923
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,160
or cosmos golf in the integration test.

924
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,680
And then we see merely the upgrade and the integration test.

925
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:49,480
And then we keep testing that the IBC connection is not broken because it's the most critical

926
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:53,080
thing like able to transfer through IBC.

927
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:54,080
Yeah.

928
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,960
And that's what I got from from test nets and a lot more things.

929
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:00,520
But I think that more significant one.

930
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:09,040
Well, we were also saying when there was the 32 million dollars sent to the wrong address

931
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:13,480
fun times that it was on a Stargaze test net.

932
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,120
You guys punk the test net, didn't you?

933
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,200
Like it was you, wasn't it?

934
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:22,600
Put the upgrade handler that said, if you actually read this handler, get in touch with

935
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:23,600
Jorge.

936
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:24,600
Yeah.

937
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:25,600
That was brilliant.

938
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:27,600
I wish more people did that.

939
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:36,600
But we have this like challenge like because we try to put everything to be transpiring

940
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:40,560
as possible in terms of code.

941
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:45,840
And an important sign is Barriero to be able to, even if you don't understand like coding,

942
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:50,440
like, but at least just reading if there is nothing like very suspicious.

943
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:55,280
And in this case was like kind of like, it was sending funds to somewhere else.

944
01:02:55,280 --> 01:03:00,480
And yeah, if you read this, then you will get extra points and the test net just by reading

945
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,200
what's going into the next.

946
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,200
That's awesome.

947
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:05,200
Genius.

948
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:06,200
Genius.

949
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,400
Have you done any of that on mainnet?

950
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:15,480
Have you funny if there's just random stuff in the mainnet?

951
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:16,720
Just hash it.

952
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:17,720
Meow.

953
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,320
Meow will send you a bad kid if you see this message.

954
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:21,320
That's right.

955
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:22,320
Yeah.

956
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:26,080
I'm definitely going to start reading all the diffs on Stargate.

957
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:28,720
Meow is definitely the bad kid whale as well.

958
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:29,720
That's the thing.

959
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:35,320
Like as soon as he's had a beer, it's just like, it's just like bad kids for all.

960
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:36,320
You never get that.

961
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:40,080
Wasn't there a limit on the minting or as you just go on through marketplaces buying

962
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:41,080
them all?

963
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,080
Funny though, it was, the limit was 50.

964
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:46,080
50, yeah.

965
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:47,080
Was it?

966
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:48,080
Yeah.

967
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:49,080
What the hell?

968
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:54,360
It took a week to sell out because it was a huge collection, I think.

969
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:55,360
Yeah, it was 10,000.

970
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,360
But yeah, it took a whole week to mint.

971
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:02,360
I think it was 50, the limit.

972
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,880
The full price is $2,400 at the moment.

973
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:05,880
It's like $2,400.

974
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:07,880
Yeah, how much were they?

975
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:08,880
$2,400 stars.

976
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:09,880
I think it was $2,22?

977
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:10,880
Something like that?

978
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:11,880
Yeah.

979
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:16,880
It was around about the 200 mark.

980
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:17,880
Yeah.

981
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,680
I could probably look up an allager.

982
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,680
Although to be fair, I guess that probably means they're about the same.

983
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:24,680
They're a par.

984
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:25,680
Yeah.

985
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:26,680
They're hurt.

986
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:27,680
A bit more.

987
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:28,680
I don't know.

988
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:30,680
Again, look, look.

989
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:34,680
We don't talk about how much was spent on glitch candies.

990
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:35,680
That's not...

991
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:40,720
I like the peak of the stress on Prop 16.

992
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:48,720
I think it was when the 114 Shutt collection got launched.

993
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,720
I think I just strayed up 825 of those.

994
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:55,720
The floor of those is, I think, about 75 stars.

995
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:56,720
Whatever.

996
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:58,720
Oh, 114 Shutt.

997
01:04:58,720 --> 01:04:59,720
Yes.

998
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:00,720
They're very cool.

999
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:01,720
Yeah, these are very cool.

1000
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,320
Actually, the prices now are extremely low.

1001
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:05,320
Yeah.

1002
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:09,520
To be fair, I've got pretty much the coolest one I've actually seen anywhere.

1003
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:11,120
I've got like... I don't know how many more numbers.

1004
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,120
It's like 924 or something.

1005
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,520
It's like this really, really ripped one.

1006
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:17,520
It's very, very cool.

1007
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:22,520
But yeah, the other 24 are less exciting.

1008
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:26,720
I do like the... I didn't really realize the 25 nights as we were talking about in

1009
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:30,920
Channel as well, but the structure is if you can get all the shards of one image and

1010
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,520
then you get something out of it, that's a really cool piece too.

1011
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:36,520
That's pretty neat.

1012
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:41,520
Floor price on a Glitchcandy is 1800 stars, Fray.

1013
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:45,520
Maybe I should... I've got a diptych.

1014
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:47,520
I actually got a double diptych.

1015
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:48,520
You got a what?

1016
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,520
So you know a diptych where it's two that should go together.

1017
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,520
They obviously part of the same generative cycle.

1018
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:59,520
So I've got two sets of two that visibly go together.

1019
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,520
I thought it was another DPS job.

1020
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:02,520
No.

1021
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,520
No, I wouldn't do that to you.

1022
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:09,520
But yeah, maybe I can be persuaded to part with a couple of those.

1023
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:15,520
And as I've said, I swear on the show, the most exciting Glitchcandy that we have is

1024
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:24,520
actually printed off as a half meter by half meter on art paper, Glease print,

1025
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:31,520
the expense of the studio, the gallery quality print is framed in the office.

1026
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:34,520
Did the print cost you more than the NFT?

1027
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:35,520
No.

1028
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:39,520
That is a very easy question.

1029
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:50,520
There are three universities and two art schools not too far away from where I live.

1030
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:55,520
So I just found a print shop that was near to one of the campuses and was like,

1031
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,520
do you do gallery quality prints?

1032
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:03,520
And they were like, yes, we do because 1800 art students want their stuff

1033
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:05,520
gallery printed a year from us.

1034
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:11,520
And I was like, ooh, I bet at this time of year, nobody's giving you jack shit.

1035
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,520
And they're just like, yeah, tenner.

1036
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:17,520
I was like half meter by half meter.

1037
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:21,520
They're like, yeah, Bob's your uncle.

1038
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:25,520
Don't sell that NFT because you'd have to give up the print as well.

1039
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,520
Yeah, I'd have to have to post it, right?

1040
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:28,520
You would?

1041
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:29,520
Yeah.

1042
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:34,520
And Seth Green, if you guys know Seth Green actor and like responsible for like robot

1043
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,520
checking, those types of things, he got fished out of a few board apes.

1044
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:46,520
I think he had on Ethereum and he was building a series on some of those apes because he had

1045
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:47,520
the rights to them.

1046
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:52,520
And after he got fished, he had to pause the series creation because by law, he doesn't

1047
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:58,520
own the right on those items anymore, even though they were stolen out of his wallet.

1048
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,520
How crazy is that?

1049
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:05,520
Wait, so when you buy a board ape, do you actually get the copyright?

1050
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,520
I guess that was the idea, at least what he had in here.

1051
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:12,520
So like there's a whole story around it on Buzzfeed around that he that they pause the

1052
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:17,520
creation of, I don't know what it was, if it was a short or what the heck it was.

1053
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:22,520
But it's pretty wild that he was building something off those ownership, off those apes.

1054
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:27,520
And somebody fished them out of them, which is like $300,000 worth of these things, USD.

1055
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:29,520
And they paused it.

1056
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,520
So now he's trying to get back in terms of trying to continue.

1057
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:37,520
But I thought that was, I don't know if I've heard a story like that before around something

1058
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:41,520
like that, where if they actually, in that situation, does that give them the usage rights

1059
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:48,520
to be able to use that in any sort of, any even kind of degenerate structure around that

1060
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:49,520
use of that ape, right?

1061
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,520
Yeah, I guess it depends on what's specified when you buy it, right?

1062
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:58,520
Well, I think copyright is actually a little bit different in the US, isn't it?

1063
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:03,520
I think you might have to register your copyright on a thing when you make it in the UK, certainly

1064
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:09,520
as the second you do something, like if I were to record this conversation we're having right now,

1065
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:15,520
aside from the slight, the fact that I'd be collecting personal data about you and therefore

1066
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,520
be a data controller and that would be bad.

1067
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:20,520
Let's ignore the general data protection regulation.

1068
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:27,520
And if I put like a beat to it or something and claimed it as like a musical work, which

1069
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:32,520
would again be the strangest hip hop track you've ever heard, but let's assume I did that

1070
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:33,520
as well.

1071
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:38,520
The second it became like a creative work, I would own the copyright to that by default

1072
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:41,520
and it's completely inalienable unless you sell it.

1073
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:47,520
Or unless, and this is the creepy one that a lot of people don't know, it's about their day job contracts.

1074
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:54,520
Your employer has already got you to sign over your copyright, which is more common,

1075
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,520
very, very common for software engineers.

1076
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:57,520
That's the same.

1077
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,520
In the US, I think anything that you create while employed, you can even make the case

1078
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:05,520
that even if it's after hours, it's difficult to say, hey, did you use, you know, what types

1079
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,520
of resources did you have to be able to create this?

1080
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:08,520
But yeah.

1081
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:13,520
I've always had to have my contracts changed because I'm just like...

1082
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:22,520
Yeah, you know what's funny, I read something on Twitter from a guy that divorced and the

1083
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,520
divorce, it was like the open source contributions.

1084
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:31,520
He had to pay for those because he was part of both.

1085
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:35,520
So be careful with your open source.

1086
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:43,520
It's going to be funny when wallets start suing wallets.

1087
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:47,520
Yeah, you had some of these ideas when you were working for us on this other project.

1088
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:49,520
It could happen.

1089
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:55,520
So, what the hell is Kato funding?

1090
01:10:55,520 --> 01:11:03,520
Oh, so Kato is a on-ramp for Fiat into crypto.

1091
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:12,520
And Kato, so we just had in the comments, Pop Moses said that Kato funding has just passed.

1092
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:20,520
So that is funding a crypto on-ramp, I say a Fiat on-ramp into the Cosmos ecosystem as

1093
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:27,520
Kato is the preferred service provider, is my understanding of several, what are we going

1094
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:35,520
to call them, refugee projects, orphan projects from the artist formerly known as the terror ecosystem.

1095
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:44,520
And so Kato coming to Cosmos is, specifically in this case, Juno, is a very big deal for

1096
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:48,520
those projects migrating on their way over into the Cosmos and the IBCverse.

1097
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,520
So that's very cool.

1098
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:53,520
So it looks like it's a payment infrastructure.

1099
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:54,520
Is that basically what it is?

1100
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:55,520
Yeah.

1101
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,520
Okay.

1102
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,520
So it's UI and methods to be able to ease the friction of payments.

1103
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:09,520
So my understanding is it's USDC and obviously a lot of chains have access to USDC or Accelar.

1104
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,520
USDC seems to be getting quite a lot of traction at the moment.

1105
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:16,520
So I assume that in the case of Juno.

1106
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:20,520
I don't know what it would be in the case of Stargaze.

1107
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:23,520
Do you guys have a preferred?

1108
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:27,520
What's your preferred bridge for things like USDC?

1109
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:32,520
Is it Accelar or is it some other bridge?

1110
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:38,520
We haven't discussed yet for USDC, but in terms of for NFTs, we are going to use Gravity Bridge,

1111
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:42,520
which we already started implementation.

1112
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:43,520
Right, right, right.

1113
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:46,520
Cool.

1114
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:47,520
Sorry, I'm laughing.

1115
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:52,520
I'm just trying to read Popo's fucking message.

1116
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,520
It's like a word's work.

1117
01:12:55,520 --> 01:13:01,520
I've been trolling Popo's on Twitter, writing his shit backwards.

1118
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:07,520
Yeah, I saw you posting something written fully backwards at Woods and I was like,

1119
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:09,520
I'm not sure this is sledging.

1120
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:11,520
I think it's just you sledging yourself.

1121
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:18,520
Yeah, I find it funny because it's as incoherent to me as what he wrote in the first place.

1122
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:22,520
Is that a keyboard replacement or is somebody actually typing that out?

1123
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:26,520
That's me literally going letter for letter typing it backwards.

1124
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:27,520
I didn't mean you.

1125
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:28,520
I'm at Popo.

1126
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:35,520
I feel like maybe he's typing with one of these but with the wrong letters on it.

1127
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,520
It's not their fault.

1128
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:42,520
They just tried to build a custom keyboard and just got all the letters the wrong way around.

1129
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,520
I mean, Popo's can't read.

1130
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:49,520
So I told them and given them like a cold, not a layout keyboard.

1131
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,520
It's literally just got bones all over it.

1132
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:54,520
Just little bone pictures.

1133
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:57,520
It just matches the bones.

1134
01:13:57,520 --> 01:13:59,520
Everything looks like a bone.

1135
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:08,520
So we've also got, do we have, I'm trying to keep us more to time than before.

1136
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:13,520
So unless we have any super pressing questions for Jorge,

1137
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:19,520
I think that we've had a, we've pretty much, everything we thought we might talk about beforehand.

1138
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,520
And it's been very interesting.

1139
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:26,520
Shall we do, we got a couple of questions that we have received over the week.

1140
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,520
Shall we deal with those and then maybe do wrap ups?

1141
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:30,520
Yeah.

1142
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:34,520
We can definitely drag those questions out for 40 minutes though.

1143
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:41,520
Well, in order to help not do that, I'm going to try and not talk and just pose the questions and you guys can answer them.

1144
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:44,520
And that will, that will be possible.

1145
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:50,520
Well, I'll mute myself and then I can, and then even if I do talk, it would just be flappy, flappy, flappy.

1146
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:55,520
So, okay.

1147
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:58,520
I think we've, we've, we've answered the top one on there before.

1148
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:02,520
So if you guys had a fully stacked team, you could stick on a new project.

1149
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:05,520
I guess that means like throw out a new project.

1150
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:10,520
What would that project be bonus points if it doesn't exist yet?

1151
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,520
Is that a question for Hawaii?

1152
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:16,520
It might be a question for any of us.

1153
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:18,520
I mean, go for it.

1154
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:20,520
Skip.

1155
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:24,520
You say, I have no ideas.

1156
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:25,520
I have nothing.

1157
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:27,520
I have no dreams.

1158
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:29,520
Yeah.

1159
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:31,520
Yeah.

1160
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:36,520
Like, I really like projects that have uses.

1161
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:37,520
Yeah.

1162
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:39,520
You know,

1163
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:43,520
there's a lot of, there's a lot of projects.

1164
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:51,520
And I noted this when I first started looking at DeFi like quite a while ago,

1165
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:55,520
that a lot of projects just shuffle coins.

1166
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,520
They're just back and forth moving things around,

1167
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,520
filling blocks with just transactions, moving shit around,

1168
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,520
swapping things for things and doing nothing.

1169
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:11,520
So, you know, if I had a fully stacked team, I would build something that does something.

1170
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,520
What that is, I do not know.

1171
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:20,520
But there are some, you know, but that would be my dream is to build something that does something.

1172
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:24,520
There's a lot of, there's good projects out there that do that.

1173
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:30,520
Like, you know, there's a cache and Althea, I think you say.

1174
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:31,520
Althea.

1175
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:32,520
Yep.

1176
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:35,520
Yeah.

1177
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:41,520
I think it's a, I'm going to butcher this.

1178
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:46,520
It's similar to, similar to other projects off of Cosmos.

1179
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:56,520
I believe it is a way to utilize and maybe piggyback off of internet lines to be able to provide service elsewhere and be able to capture rewards associated that.

1180
01:16:56,520 --> 01:17:01,520
That's a really bad, I think that's a really awful explanation of it.

1181
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,520
Yeah, they have like this network.

1182
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:07,520
So, for example, you want to become like a provider.

1183
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:20,520
You can have like your own router that will give internet to more people and then use their hour has like the, like, there's a way to charge or like the subscription or something like that.

1184
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:21,520
Right.

1185
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:26,520
Yes, I think at the moment they're using like, so it's like a paper minute type internet right.

1186
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:34,520
It's just like, or, you know, regularly paying with with blockchain monies.

1187
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:41,520
I think they use USDC at the moment, but I think the purpose of their blockchain is to control that and use their own token at some point.

1188
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:43,520
Yeah.

1189
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:47,520
So like I jumped on some spaces a little while ago and asked a bunch of questions.

1190
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:52,520
I can't remember the answers to, but you know, team seems onto it.

1191
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:58,520
And I really like what they've done in terms of like distributing internet.

1192
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:00,520
It's sort of like piggybacks.

1193
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:13,520
It's like a user can start like a node and basically collect fees for, you know, people using Althea through their gateway, I guess you would say.

1194
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:15,520
So it's interesting.

1195
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:27,520
I don't know how like they've onboarded like companies to do it as well to provide, I guess, points of presence as a provider.

1196
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:37,520
But I'm not sure how it goes legally with like say if I was using our local carrier to, you know, distribute the internet to people who pay me.

1197
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:39,520
I don't know how that would work.

1198
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:42,520
But I think that's part of the model.

1199
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:59,520
But, you know, things that do things in real life is is is what I find to be really interesting and how people can sort of roll that back to their blockchain and some things don't need a blockchain.

1200
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:03,520
But, you know, it certainly does make sense for some projects.

1201
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:11,520
So that's what I'm somebody said to me in Prague after something I said, well, two things happened.

1202
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:14,520
Somebody said, you really hate DeFi, don't you?

1203
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:19,520
Like, it's like, it's like, took a took a step back and just like straight their chin and swim.

1204
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:21,520
You know, you really hate DeFi, don't you?

1205
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:25,520
And I was like, hey, is a strong word.

1206
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:34,520
But but that Pup most comment, like blockchains working jobs, they hate to buy things they don't need like the Fight Club reference.

1207
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:38,520
I was like that that epitomizer how I feel about a lot of DeFi.

1208
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:44,520
I'm like, look, let's not just let's not just make shit stuff on the blockchain.

1209
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:46,520
It's not necessary.

1210
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,520
Like, yeah, my answer to the question is really, really simple.

1211
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:58,520
It's basically that there's the problems in Demiqa Web 2 are largely as a result of the incentive models that have emerged there.

1212
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:06,520
And incentive models rely on being able to design economics and you can't always expect to get it right.

1213
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:17,520
But we have now with blockchain one of the most comprehensive toolkits for building incentive models that anybody outside of a central bank planning room has ever seen.

1214
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:35,520
And the ability to instead of starting a startup, build an incentive model and a startup and a derivative token that expresses the intentions of that incentive model is one of the most revolutionary concepts that's happened in technology in the last 50 years.

1215
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:52,520
And, you know, wouldn't it be good if we use that to like further the cause of human rights and democracy and stop in climate change and or at least try to ameliorate some of these bad things that we've seen happening as a result of rampant neoliberalism and late capitalism,

1216
01:20:52,520 --> 01:21:00,520
like rather than just like dicking around with, you know, shuffling around bits that represent imaginary money.

1217
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:11,520
And this is why so another person in Prague literally left a conversation with me walked away and it turned out they had gone have a lie down.

1218
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:15,520
The next day they were like, you kind of bummed me out yesterday, man.

1219
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:18,520
That's not hard for me to believe.

1220
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:31,520
Yeah, somehow it's very believable, isn't it? So, Crypto King on Twitter has a question for you, Jorge, which is that what kind of because I know Shane's talked about this as well to us before.

1221
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:47,520
What are the plans in the roadmap to move beyond simple images for NFTs on Stargate is like, and do you have like some much more advanced use cases you think I know you already talked about the generative stuff but do you have much more advanced use cases like

1222
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:55,520
Gated to access to content or like NFTs is used for IoT devices or anything like crazy, crazy.

1223
01:21:55,520 --> 01:22:13,520
Well, we already was already using like gated access, for example, in our discord, you can access like projects, channels, if you are an NFT holder, and some other projects like Stargate's punks, I think they are using it as well for their discord.

1224
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:20,520
You will get access to different things in G-Hole like an NFT from the collection.

1225
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:33,520
I think like right now we are focusing on the core infrastructure so we can add more things without having like the technical depth in the future.

1226
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:40,520
But I guess like the upcoming things probably lending and borrowing with NFTs.

1227
01:22:40,520 --> 01:23:02,520
And as I say, like focusing on the experience, the infrastructure for adding more features in the future because we try to add more features that are more polished rather than adding too many features which someone may hate because it's not working as expected.

1228
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,520
Yeah.

1229
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:10,520
Oh, sorry, you said that.

1230
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:26,520
I think going back to that last one around unlimited funds, I think this area around using the chain or using the structure for identity and being able to use different use cases around identity would be my kind of go to as well because it kind of fits the way that Jorge just said.

1231
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:36,520
And I think being able to either use an entity as a token in some sort of sense to be able to prove identity or to be able to use obviously devices like hardware devices and other types of things off the chain to be able to use identity.

1232
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:55,520
I know Czech is doing that as I was there kind of structure on Czech D but I think that would be there's I think there's a lot of areas around authentication identity that this is such a great use case for our great technology to apply to I think there's so much so much to be done there in terms of user experience and other types of things that would be really beneficial.

1233
01:23:55,520 --> 01:24:04,520
I'll start I'll start that I'll just issue stargaze NFTs to it says verified by King nodes.

1234
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:12,520
Yeah, I'll just go and have a beer with you and you show me your ID and buy me a beer and I'll give you.

1235
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:15,520
And then there's there's taking rewards turns into King right.

1236
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:16,520
Yeah, King token.

1237
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:17,520
That's right. Yeah.

1238
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:19,520
You can't get anywhere.

1239
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:29,520
We're talking about we're talking about Web of Trust Web of Trust is a feature for the name service on Juno.

1240
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:44,520
Maybe that's the minimum viable product of the Web of Trust feature is you go and have a beer with null and then we add a field to the NFT that only only nulls address can edit on every NFT on the entire service.

1241
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:45,520
Right.

1242
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:49,520
And then yeah proof of beer. Yeah.

1243
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:53,520
It's cal of course it's Callum with this with the sly aside.

1244
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:56,520
Very rye very funny.

1245
01:24:56,520 --> 01:24:57,520
Yeah proof of beer.

1246
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:02,520
If you've had a beer with null we verify you little tick mark.

1247
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:13,520
You just need to maybe that can be the how equivalent of the Twitter tick is you only get the blue tick you only get the blue tick on how the blue wolf if you've had a beer with null.

1248
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:15,520
I just know there's one more comment.

1249
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:23,520
I'd like to flag as a question while we're doing probably this will be our last question for the show, which is from total spud.

1250
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:25,520
Great name.

1251
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:26,520
Love the energy.

1252
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:38,520
Guys, can you speak about the hot topic of stable coins specifically how you view the decentralized stable coin future in cosmos mainly IST agoracran and conduct stable or any others.

1253
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:44,520
Well we need one.

1254
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:49,520
But do you want to be the one to implement it on your chain.

1255
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:59,520
I think I think I think you can't have a algorithmic stable coin that's tied to your main token for your chain.

1256
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:09,520
So are we talking about a back stable coin or an algorithmic stable coin or just a stable coin in general because I think IST is algorithmic isn't it.

1257
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:12,520
The one on a work.

1258
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:28,520
So the problem is, if you tie it to your main token for your chain you can destroy your ecosystem as we've seen as soon as there's a vulnerability in the way that you know you can't have a stable coin.

1259
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:40,520
You know the stable coin works so I think you know you'd have to be brave to implement it on your chain.

1260
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:52,520
And I just was skeptical about algorithmic stable coins because now I haven't seen one that really works as a like a USD peg.

1261
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:59,520
So I don't know anyone else have a viewpoint.

1262
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:03,520
My dad has a strong opinion.

1263
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:14,520
So they're saying IST is over collateralized but it's only over collateralized until the value of the thing you're collateralizing it with is no longer over collateralizing it.

1264
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:21,520
So you know this unless there's a way to liquidate it when the collateral becomes worthless.

1265
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:36,520
Unless you have a counter cyclical asset it's all basically garbage right because the reason the reason a government can stop a bank run is because they can well they can first of all tell the bank to close their doors and say we'll buy you out.

1266
01:27:36,520 --> 01:27:44,520
And then second of all they can issue government debt on a 150 year cycle that's leveraged against against a constant tax rate.

1267
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:57,520
So you're like well unless the chain itself can leverage its inflation to buy out debt as some kind of stable counter cyclical bond even though it doesn't even have to be stable.

1268
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:05,520
I mean like I'm a fucking prat so I have my savings part in government bonds.

1269
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:18,520
And then for some reason in 2016 the British government did something that shat the value of government bonds can't think what it was you know something mid year that just completely fucked my long term savings.

1270
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:30,520
But even in the context of like that which turned out to be a volatile asset much more volatile than it normally be for most government debt it's still you know compared to crypto a joke like in terms of how unvolatile it is you know.

1271
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:39,520
So until you have something like that which is just going to kind of like no matter how the market goes up or down it's only going to be pegged by a little bit.

1272
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:51,520
What can guarantee that other than the main chain itself right cat and with the main chain would would a chain ever back things that are on it like back its own because then you still back into the terror situation right where.

1273
01:28:51,520 --> 01:29:02,520
The best the main chain can do is offer up its own token which is positively correlated with the thing so it's not actually counter cyclical it's just.

1274
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:07,520
It's just more of the same you kind of need to get this one you lose the other basically.

1275
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:13,520
Yeah so what crypto can you even a store value crypto is going to be positively correlated.

1276
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:21,520
Like so unless you literally buy gold bars or something like what is going to be counter cyclical enough to hedge against the stablecoin.

1277
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:37,520
So just just reading pot mosses stuff that is writing here about IST because so far as I know these comments don't come up in the in the stream when you're actually watching it so I haven't been able to see them so just I'm going to read them out because it's interesting.

1278
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:38,520
So.

1279
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:43,520
I read about like.

1280
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:47,520
I don't have to read it so UST is algorithmic.

1281
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:48,520
Okay.

1282
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:49,520
Yes.

1283
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:57,520
IST is not so saying IST is only a over collateralized coin.

1284
01:29:57,520 --> 01:30:02,520
And it will be liquidated in the worst case.

1285
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:08,520
So.

1286
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:11,520
Even so and then he does say further down what I was going to say further down.

1287
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:21,520
He says collateralized eventually has a limit which is the problem right so if you if you have a if you have IST in circulation and then it's collateralized.

1288
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:27,520
It's pretty easy to see that sometimes the market can fall 80 to 90% right.

1289
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:34,520
The whole of the Cosmos ecosystem has fallen probably at least what 70 to 80% in the last three months.

1290
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:42,520
So if you have even a pool of tokens that are collateralizing IST.

1291
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:49,520
You know what happens when it's liquidated do you do then just get issued the tokens from the pool.

1292
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:53,520
That were collateralizing it so it's it's still not stable.

1293
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:58,520
So there is a point where it becomes not stable.