And then, yeah, you didn't get me.
Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent Validator teams.
Okay, so hello and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent
Validator teams.
This week we've got Jorge from Stargaze, who is going to be talking to us about a variety
of poorly researched questions that we've thought up in the week in the last week, which has
actually been possibly the lowest DPS.
Has it been low DPS?
I was about to say it's been low DPS this week, but there's probably been drama, hasn't
there?
Oh, drama.
I was thinking of DJs for a second.
I had a bunch of bad D words in there trying to figure out what you're talking about.
Hold on a second.
I'm trying to find the last plot.
No, no, no.
Drama.
It's on DPS a lot.
Yeah, well, it's been incredibly low DPS this week.
It's a low market.
Everyone's sort of quiet.
Lots of people are just back to building and lots of people have just vanished as well.
So yeah, low drama this week, which is nice.
Yeah, and then, well, I mean, I guess there's still some of the fallout for UST.
I guess it's not probably low DPS if you're particularly involved in the terror ecosystem,
right?
Well, that's true.
From what I can gather now, there's people who have been wrecked and I guess hopeful that
Terror 2 is somewhat of a success so that they can recoup some of their losses.
And then there's like the dev pool from Terror, which I guess some have lost confidence in
that ecosystem and are looking to leave whilst others are sticking around and looking to
rebuild on Terror 2.
Phoenix 1, I should say now.
Is it rebranded to Phoenix?
Or is it just still Terror with a new network name of Phoenix?
Well, yeah, they had Columbus, didn't they?
With Columbus 5, the last main net.
And technically, I think I said this when I first saw that, technically the Juno relaunch
code name was Phoenix.
So we kind of got there first with the drama level and then with the name.
But then obviously we relaunched Juno 1.
So Terror, the copycat, is that what you're saying?
Well, I think there was an Eridokwon tweet that was something like, what's Juno?
Is that just like a copy of?
Yeah, that's Juno.
Yeah.
Shoes are the other foot.
I feel like that was more like, what's Juno?
Yeah.
So, we have a couple of follow-ups from last week.
So actually related to that, there's a lot of Terror projects that are coming over into
the cosmos.
I assume that, Jorge, this has also affected you guys on Stargaze, right?
Because are there NFT projects that are looking to migrate over in your direction?
Yeah.
We received a couple of projects that we're trying to launch on Stargaze as well.
And I guess the main issue is how do you migrate those?
Because there are some existing projects that want to migrate and new ones that we're about
to launch.
So, yeah, dealing with both.
So there was an aggregator, I think.
We're getting some Australian internet on the go there.
We was asking about different networks to migrate to.
That could have been the most eloquent thing you've ever said now that was just eaten by
the internet.
Devastating.
Look, it probably wasn't.
So, it seems like, Jorge, I'm kind of interested in your perspective on this one.
I've seen, anyway, from just visually seeing some of the projects on Twitter that have
been talking about the fact that they're thinking of moving over into the cosmos and whatnot,
is that a lot of these projects relied very heavily on launch pads and whatnot in the...
I need to stop saying what now.
What the hell is wrong with me?
A lot of them rely quite heavily on launch pads and tooling in the terror ecosystem that
might not yet exist on a loss of cosmos chains.
Quite a bit of NFT tooling in terror seemed to be quite custom for specific use cases,
whereas a lot of NFT tooling in cosmos is like...
Null's left, he's jumped out the window.
A lot of the NFT tooling in the cosmos is more interoperable by default because there's
several chains and several teams all building it together, but it's all at a much earlier
stage, isn't it?
We don't have these...
Yeah, exactly.
For example, currently, there is also teams that are looking to mint more.
We have a limit on take-a, take-a for collection, and some teams want to mint more because they
have different processes of minting, so they're like generating art.
So it's like a single collection, but they will keep minting and minting.
We are just trying to... and working with them to see how we can get customized in the contracts
to take these different ways of minting.
Right, the launch pad, all the tooling on launching a project is quite different, but
there is already two or three that already made it to launch a collection on Testnet.
I think probably maybe next week will be when launching.
Well, that's exciting.
One of the other things I noticed was that some of the projects are very heavily into
sort of like rendered assets and all that kind of thing.
There's some quite sophisticated processing going on in the background in terms of what's
actually stolen chain and what's not.
Do you have a feeling on... because I think people's perception of NFT is that everything
is on chain, right?
But especially some of the much more things with 3D assets and stuff like that is obviously
interesting.
Yeah, currently we are following the OpenSea metadata standards.
So ultimately, it's stored on IPvS.
I include the assets.
On chain, it's like a pointer to the IPvS cache and that's called U-Hutry.
And this is like some other difference with Gerardo because some of them have on chain
metadata, but we also will try to come up with on chain metadata in the future as well.
Cool.
Okay, so it's not fundamentally incompatible with the way that you guys are already thinking
about stuff.
Yeah.
I guess the main issue is only if it was like an existing project that they have the
metadata on chain and if they want to come out to Stargaze, then what do you do?
You will have to move the metadata to IPvS in order to work.
At least for now, until we go with on chain metadata.
But for newer projects, they can switch to IPvS.
I realized we had a couple of things we were going to do because we do follow-ups at the
top of the show, but now we start talking about Stargaze now.
So whatever, let's go with it.
So is on chain metadata something you're actively looking at supporting?
It's an interesting thing from my perspective personally because obviously the name service
that we built on Juno is on chain metadata because there's that guarantee that everything
is stored on chain.
Yeah, we definitely will have different ways to do it.
And I think on chain metadata also gives different ways to interact with the marketplace.
For example, bidding on a specific trade.
Because on chain, you can do, okay, I just want to bid for a specific trade and it will
apply to any NFT that matches that trade.
That's the type of thing that you could do with on chain metadata.
We are looking to support as well in the future.
So basically, it's like a text-based metadata.
Like when you start trying to store, you know, or vector, but using like graphics and sound
and it's just not feasible to really store it on chain, is it?
Yeah.
Currently there is a Commonwealth proposal.
I don't know if you guys have seen like the Hyperion project.
Yes, that was very cool.
I missed out on it when it was first minted.
So he's working on some custom contracts to launch a generative art site where it will
take like the creator, like the minter address and the hash of the transaction in order to
create like these different shapes and forms of.
So yeah, this requires like using your mint, then this, it will go to the site, it will
generate like the outcome based on the transaction and then it will submit another transaction
to finalize the mint with your final asset.
I think that must be similar to, I think there was an Ethereum project that.
There's a hardbox, I think.
Something like that.
Yeah.
I think that had like, there was an NFT that's a representation of specific blocks in time.
Yeah.
And I think like the cool thing about that is like first it will be like the peer-by-peer
developer that is adding a new custom contract to Sergace because for those that don't know
like the governance gated contracts set up, we have for Sergace.
But it's not like it's only the team that the bloke contracts, but it's more like in
order to pull contracts, it has to do with what a Stargaze is doing, right?
In this case, there's NFTs.
So what would be the process for that hall?
Hey, will that be like audited by the Stargaze team before they put it up so that you can
give it your tick?
Yeah.
Yeah, the idea will be to fund like audits in order to make sure like nothing like tick
is on the contract.
And this setup allows like for the community to check the code because I've seen contracts
that are deployed that you could not find the source code.
So at the end, you only trust the team, but without team, the code is like, you don't
know if something could happen at the end.
So you guys will like see the code, compile it, check the hash against the code, the contract
that goes up for the proposal?
Yeah, exactly.
You can check like it's the code that is open source, you compile it locally and check with
the hash that is on the governance proposal.
Okay.
Yeah, this is the code that is being deployed.
Yeah, I think the users and the public probably need to understand that the differences between
like when we talk about Juno getting hacked and then compare that to like Stargaze or
OmniFlix or any other platform that uses permission to contracts.
Like you guys can sort of be a gateway to check the contracts before they go up because
you don't necessarily need to patch every single wasm vulnerability that comes up because
you can make sure that they're not doing that before they, you know, and you can talk about
that during the governance period.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So, for example, the last two security patches from Custom Wasm, I think like it didn't affect
us like we assisted like the security implications of the patches, but it doesn't affect it because
only if the Stargaze team uses the vulnerability in contracts, then you will trigger that vulnerability.
But yeah, we are not going to do that.
Exactly.
You're not going to pwn yourself, but there is like, there is a bit of an issue in the
cosmos where there's like this vote yes culture.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's still as possible that someone could put up a nefarious contract and be voted
in.
Yeah, I guess like this is where like the validator community comes.
Like you need to trust your validators like and probably the data has like other networks
and like, but you, we as developers like we at least I and keep track of all of our dependencies
and check for security, whatever it is or give like more information if we really need
to do like a quick upgrade.
It's like a, it's a lot of depth to keep a track of for realties.
Yeah, I guess like at least for the chain side, the most important ones are like go
because this is what you use to build the binary.
The SK, IBC go and custom was and those are the most important like upstream dependencies
that I keep track of.
Yeah.
And I'm guessing you have, do you have plans to integrate ICA into chain accounts at some
point?
Yeah, I already have a PR open.
We just want to have a little feature in the next upgrade.
So like someone has to go and answer on for custom wasm.
You know, like the main issue right now for us with custom wasm in go and answers like
it takes a lot of that's for buying.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, so that's on our next upgrade.
Probably just as a host for now, not as a controller, but just as a host.
Which will allow other chains to send message to the IBC.
Yeah, we've started the implementation on Juno side, but as soon as you do the controller
part, you need the authentication module.
Yeah, that's the game.
There's into TX at the moment and into.
So technically speaking, if you read the documentation into TX does do a minimal, you know, like
implementation of everything you need for the host authentication module.
Yeah, yeah, it just has all those warnings where it's like, don't use this seriously,
don't use this.
I can't believe you're using this.
All right, if you use this, your chain's dead.
Yeah, I'm going to take time and you're like, it will take some time for a chain to be like
a controller, like because it has some security risk implications.
And it will just take time to do it.
Yeah, I think I mean, I can't be sure.
The annoying thing is the person I'm working on this with is Jabby, who's actually not
here.
But we've been talking about it quite a lot.
And I think we're probably going to back out of the into TX and control the part because
yeah, yeah, we are just upgrading to IBC three and and check with the host enable for now
and then figure out like the controller later because we really want to do things like being
able to swap the stars like on this message, for example, through like a star scan.
Yeah, because also, well, I guess from from us, it's sort of like it was a it's a bit
of a weird one because I think like Juno is like a it's almost like a lot.
It's almost like a landing zone, I think, in a lot of ways, like for particular projects
and things.
And then they kind of go off onto their own chain, the idea in the long term, right, any
protocol that's successful in Juno is eventually going to branch out into an L one of their
own, right?
It's probably the reality.
So Juno kind of makes sense as a controller chain.
But you know, although we will implement the host ICA functionality, maybe I'm just not
being imaginative enough, but I I'm kind of like, why would I be on osmosis and be executing
wasm instructions on Juno?
So yeah, it makes more sense the other way around like, at least for us, like the examples
I have right now, it's like swap stars and then send it back to I mean, for the name
service stuff, it is probably the only use case I can think of where it makes sense to
be the host chain.
Because you know, you just go, I have this back 32 address, it does that correspond to
any known validator, whatever, whatever, whatever that's registered with the name service, then
sure it looks up and it just gives you an interchain query.
But again, that that API isn't really there yet.
So it's like, okay, well, what other services are actually like gasping to use this functionality,
the host functionality, probably not many, but you can see how smart contracts and UIs
and things like that where somebody's already interacting with the DAP on Juno that does
something, whatever, you can kind of see like how that might go.
Okay, I want to talk to osmosis or I want to talk to stargaze.
I mean, actually, literally with projects that we're working on right now, it's plausible
that people who are on that in a kind of more of a social space might want to do something
on stargaze from where they are.
And you're like, okay, sure, that's that's an ICA controller.
Awesome.
But we just need to like, it's actually really hard to implement all of that at the moment
because the authentication thing is just like, is left as an exercise to the reader and you're
like, I'm not sure I'm smart enough to actually implement that.
Yeah, it's like when you start like to programming and then you have your example like Halo
War and then build this big product like Tenco did to that.
So here's a potential use the fray.
Say for example, someone on another chain, another permissionless smart contract chain
or what have you builds like a a dex that is, you know, like one of those dexes that
hops between pools to get the best exchange rate.
So that is a potential use to use ICA across chain to use execute a wasm contract on Juno
swap whilst hopping back through on Osmosis, for example, if it was able to do contracts
like that, I'm not sure if it can.
But, you know, things like that where you might want to interact with across.
So Jorge can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is you can you can interact
with any message type that is registered to the
host.
On the host.
Yeah, for example, we have an able when you do an upgrade, don't you?
And in the upgrade handler, you say all the things you can interact with.
So you can look at you can look at our working draft for this.
And we basically say, I guess all the major wasm message types, we say, yeah, you can
interact with that.
I don't know what you guys are doing, Jorge, but I imagine.
Yeah, I guess like, yeah, I guess like just specific messages like the most common, probably
just transfer or IDC transfer or in this case, is a kid.
Because it wasn't.
Yeah, I think I think we, we maybe have a couple of other cause and wasm ones, which
there's an outstanding question for me saying something like I included them all just in
case we want them, but we probably don't want them.
Yeah, because you don't know like the implications of enabling something that you, for example,
what if you enable a store code through interchange accounts?
Well, that means like someone will submit code through IDC and what will happen to your
setup.
So those are the types of things that you have to carefully evaluate before.
Yeah, I mean, nobody's tried that.
That's, you know, whatever what happens when that returns is almost anybody's guess, right?
Yeah, probably, probably it will be fine, but potentially will not be fine.
So yeah, so I've really derailed us very, very quickly into talking about Stargate.
So I was just looking at the spreadsheet and I'm like, we have not followed this at all.
Sorry about that.
It just like, just excited to have Jorge on the podcast.
It's been a while since, it's been a while since we've talked.
So I was just like, yeah, really excited.
I was looking, I was just looking back at the, it's weird that it took this kind of
terror collapse read understand how just how big that universe is.
I was looking at some of the, you said about the number of terror FT NFT projects.
And I found a webpage with, you know, 250, they're active and another 200 that are,
that are being planned and for release, I, it's just, I don't know, I miss this, but
wow, there's a significant number of projects out there in there.
So Jorge, I just want to bring something up while we're talking about NFTs and it's
terror and stargaze and omniflux and et cetera, all the cosmos NFT platforms and projects.
So we touched on this a little bit when Shane and sis lover on here the other day, because
it's just like a burning question I have that I'd like to keep bringing up interrupt
on NFTs.
So I bought up the concept that a aggregator, which can actually bring together all the
projects and all the platforms into one UI UX and be able to trade and transfer across
which we raise the issues of like the interoperability of NFTs is not probably there yet because
of the different standards that everyone uses like some people use modules other people
use smart contracts, not necessarily what we're trying to follow the ICS specification.
So either it is like the native module or contracts issue work.
The only thing like it's unclear at the moment is royalties because the ICS specification
doesn't say code to handle those and it leaves up to the implementation to handle royalties.
So that will be the main issue like for example, I don't want to pay royalties for selling
my NFT, then I will move to a different chain to sell it with a royalty.
So how do you handle that?
It's like governance gate set of chains where you can send your NFTs in order to like honor
these royalties.
But yeah, I think that will be like the main issue, but in terms of interoperability, like
we have like Mike working on only on writing the contracts for ICS.
So he did like the Ethereum part for gravity bridge and he's working on the custom wasam
side to do the ICS specification.
So are you guys talking with other chains like OmniFlex to that when you're working
at that certification?
Yeah, the ICS specification where it was at work from many people.
And I think it was merged recently by like the final version.
I don't know if like, at least we are working on the custom wasam like implementation.
I don't know if there is teams working on the co-module side for other implementation.
So since that conversation the other day, Frey and Ysirpa, I have seen one such project
rear its head who I think are talking with Stargaze at the moment as a NFT aggregator.
Would that be right?
Paul Ho?
Sorry?
I think I've seen a project raise its head as an aggregator in the recent weeks.
Have you heard anything about that?
No.
No?
Okay.
Maybe I'm crazy.
Maybe I'm too alpha.
I don't know.
Too alpha for the chains itself.
You're so far ahead of it.
Was that a native Cosmos project or was that one of these many terror projects that is
talked about coming over to the Cosmos and huffing and puffing and blowing our house
down?
Probably the latter.
I don't know why I accredit them to the Big Bad Wolf actually.
They're very welcoming.
They are very large and welcoming tents.
There's a lot of space to piss out of this tent.
I mixed so many metaphors there.
I just committed to something very wrong.
It's a good thing.
It's like, terror folks, you're welcome to come into our large comfortable tent and join
us in pissing out.
Put it this way.
Our blocks are not yet full.
We need to fill those blocks for the end of the 12-year mark.
Exactly.
We used to film at the Seller today, weren't we?
I was having a bit of a, I've been programming for several hours, my brain is toast moment.
I was like, hang on a minute, guys.
What happens when there's no minting?
I was like, fees.
But wait, everybody's going to unsteak.
You're like, yeah, fees.
I was like, the fees won't be enough.
The fees might actually not be enough.
It's just funny that you're coming to that realization.
You've been so involved with it since the get-go and you're like, hang on.
Hold on a second.
Wait a minute.
The inflation runs out after 12 years.
I haven't had any sleep since Prop 16 started.
This week has been the first time I've been able to do something that wasn't something
on fire needs putting out.
I've been able to do normal person work.
But you've managed to come across a in 12 years time fire.
I'm freaked out.
You should be freaked out too.
Upgrade, change the module, keep in play.
New Genesis bucket.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
New Genesis, block height one.
Exactly.
Bucket.
Start over.
Phoenix.
Jorge, what's the Stargate strategy there?
Because you guys don't have a limit, do you?
It's just mint forever?
Yeah.
It's just for a billion.
It will reduce in six months by a fair.
But the Stargate model is different in that there is NFT royalties distributed, right?
Yeah.
So, for example, every time you trade mint or create a collection, it gets like 2% fee,
which is 1% is foreign and the other it will go to the stakers.
Yeah.
So, I think, well, I mean, that must be similar on omniflicks because my validator account
just keeps having all these random coins show up in there when people trade and mint and
stuff is just like Adam and Wawa and God knows what else.
Yeah.
Because they don't even have their own coin yet, really.
There's always other dust just keeps showing up.
I'm like, what is this shit?
God knows what else.
That's going to be a nightmare when it comes to do tax on that for some of you fellas and
you're like, just all this thing is not up.
Because I don't think you even have to actually claim it.
It just shows up.
So, yeah, it will be part of the distribution.
Since we are the moment we just take stars for fees and trading, everything is just in
the stars.
I think I've started accepting Adam as a fee for transactions.
Have any of you guys started doing that?
I didn't, but they've started fucking showing up nevertheless, which I'm not fully sure
I can explain given that they're not configured for our validator.
So Adam's showing up when you're a validator.
Yeah.
I think we read that module.
Either somebody is trolling us by sending us Adam.
No, no, because it's definitely rewards.
It's definitely because I checked our monitoring the other day and I was like, this is like
a third of an atom or something.
I was like, yeah, as much as has this cool thing where you configure your gas prices
in Osmo.
I think it can accept in different denominations, but since they have access to the spot prices,
it will be compared to the cool thing in Osmo in order to charge the same fee.
That's cool.
So yeah, wow, geez.
But that means the validator would need to dynamically change their...
No, they specify the Osmo gas prices and then if you pay in different denominations, it
will be computed.
So it swaps it to Osmo, does it?
It does.
So for example, you'd be like, I want to charge one micro Osmo, for example.
Then if you are paying different denomination, it will check if it is...
If it meets the minimum requirement by doing this spot price conversion.
Yeah, right.
Okay.
So I don't suppose that you can shed any light on the distribution of alternate denominations
as fees.
Do you know anything about that?
Because I've just realized that we're all baffled by it.
Well, on Juno, isn't it that if you set...
If you set that you also accept the IBC Denom that is atom that comes over IBC with the
big old hash, then technically you're accepting atom.
As long as our magic IBC world doesn't break and you could do the same for stars, you could
do the same for whatever, the difference with Osmo is that they, I guess, know the prices.
Yeah, the thing is how do you dynamically change the value because prices will be different.
So for example, if atom goes up or down, it will be different with your local chain denomination.
So the...
And the response is what they're trying to do is to charge the same, even if there is
different prices on your terminations.
Yeah, so I mean, yeah, we can't do anything about that in Juno at the moment.
Just set and forget and change it when there's a big change in difference, I guess.
So we've put it in the Juno docs to set it at a certain amount, which is sort of...
One's definitely cheaper.
We've probably better look at that ratio, but you don't want to have like point little
little.
But anyway, what I was sort of getting to is that Frey has atom, IBC atom showing up
on his validator, as you just said, but you don't accept the NOM as a fee.
It's because someone is accepting it.
So at the end, it's not the validator that gets the rewards, but it goes to the fee
distribution module and then it's split for everyone.
So would that mean that you would need to be delegated to a validator that's accepting
the NOM?
It's like for everyone.
For example, that's why someone having zero gross prices affect everyone because then everyone
doesn't get the fees for that.
Wait, hang on.
Hang on.
Yeah, that's not...
I'm about to say something that has just freaked me out.
I'm really hoping that Jorge is going to tell me that's not how it works.
That stuff is checked for.
Don't worry, there are regression tests for that.
What's the stop me, essentially, what's the stop me putting a garbage Denom in the accepted
Denom's from one validator that is a part of consensus so that every time that validator
proposes, it's going to propose garbage.
It can only include transactions when they are proposing.
Other validators will skip it.
But that would potentially mean that one one hundredth of all transactions would just
go totally askew, right?
In this case, if they're accepting fees with different denominations.
All right, because the fees don't need to be signed off, don't they, by the signer?
Yeah.
So it still has to exist.
So when the user pays the fee, it still has to exist.
So even if you put some garbage, total garbage, it doesn't work.
Yeah.
However, I thought for a second, I was like, holy shit, you could just get like a third
of the network to just change the fucking Denom.
No, it actually exists on change.
On the supply.
So are you saying that if say SG1 has SG1 point and they're like, you know, the next
number one validator, they sign fucking way more blocks than anyone else, that if they
change SG1 coin as the denomination and delete Juno, they can just sell their SG1 coin and
and then just, you know, one third of the transactions on the network can go with their
coin as the as the gap.
Yeah.
Fuck that.
Delete this podcast.
Fuck that.
Delete this.
Holy shit.
Shut the shit down.
It's a network.
It is a network tack from under the hood.
It is.
It validator can do that if they have a.
It's the same as setting zero gas prices.
Like a node can include transactions with selfie and.
Game of nodes coin coming soon.
Oh my God.
I'm really just fucking you guys.
Yeah, that's why.
GON here comes.
Everything's called the Denom.
It has like a minimum gas prices between into their chain, so you can add it like, like,
because it's not part of the consensus, like it's on the anti handler.
So it doesn't make it to the mental, but you may get part of the consensus, like a minimum
gas price requirement.
Then if everyone doesn't.
Follow that, then you will get.
Just told you will sign different.
Look.
So yeah.
So yeah, until you, until you either make it a part of consensus, there has to be an
accepted amount of the accepted to norm or you change the anti handler to validate the
Denom.
Yeah.
Then technically you can attack a network as a validator.
You can.
Yes.
Yeah.
With potentially like you could cause, I feel like with that with like 10% of voting
power, you could cause way more chaos than.
Or say a small group of independent cosmos validators.
I guess like it doesn't make sense.
Like in the case of fees, because then you are just putting more pressure to your notes
because other value areas won't be accepting that fee.
So they will have to sit in your mental in order to be included in that blog.
So basically you are just attacking yourself as a validator by doing that.
But also, you know, it's only due to your proposed.
Well, sure.
But like this could be a competitive advantage.
Like what if you just went, okay, well, let's say you're onboarding a bunch of new Terry
users, you've got wrapped USDC coming over from axelar.
You just say, okay, well, my validator accepts fucking wrapped USDC.
You know, who else does?
Boom.
You're going to collect those fees.
That's a competitive advantage for your validator.
Where everyone will collect them.
Like I bring the mention.
Of course, because I go to the transaction.
All the fees go to the, yeah.
Okay.
I'm not an evil genius.
Don't worry about it.
No, but at the same time, you can like push your shit coin as a, as a fee mechanism instead
of the native coin.
So you can sell your shit coin as, as fee gas.
But in terms of like attacking the network, I guess, is the does the wasm module because
you can set the, the gas in the fur upload contracts, right?
And, and I'm instantiating contracts like can that be used with a shit coin or is that
like the native coin only?
Okay.
Yeah, that's the attack vector.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
Especially, yeah, that's actually a really good point.
Yeah.
If you start accepting or Kerberus, then you can just spam the network with contracts.
Yeah.
It will affect like the, the validators that have like a lower hardware as their setup.
Like, I guess in order to attack or to expand, you, you can have like a big machine.
If you are proposing like often and then just a start up what in codes because it won't
cause you to do it in this case, but you will to pay in just with this fake denominations.
And you will say the nose that can candle that big chunks of transactions.
I've just thought of a second.
I've actually just thought of an actual viable attack using this and I'm not going to say
it because I know it can take down a network.
I think I've got it.
Well, I think we are in should delete this podcast.
I just want it just a small recap or 48 minutes and number one, we haven't touched a single
item on our agenda and number two, we've defined how to take down every cosmos chain.
Is that, is that kind of the tail?
Every wasm chain.
Excuse me.
Yeah.
Every wasm chain.
Oh wait.
The way every commission was wasm chain.
So, especially permissionless.
Yeah.
We don't allow, well, we don't allow like a plug in code.
So, do a few three check.
Only, only, only the fray is sweating in this four blocker of video here.
Yeah.
But it's okay.
Or is it cool as a cucumber down there?
Yeah.
Fellas, I know how to take down Juno again with a pretty easy exploit.
If anybody wants to buy this exploit, my Juno address is, let me read it out.
It'll be in the show notes tonight.
Yeah.
Just let me read the show notes.
Yeah.
So, it sent me, sent me 3 million USDC, not USDT.
Nice try.
To my address.
Fun story.
I haven't actually been able to send any USDC anywhere.
Okay.
Well, I can't send it on Osmosis to anyone.
Every time I try it, it just fails.
But that's probably the name for this, for this episode is Game of Nodes 12, Delete This
Episode.
Yeah.
Probably.
So, Jorge, there's, I'm looking, I'm looking, we do actually have episode notes, the things
we want to cover.
And I noticed that Yussepa has put some technical questions that we have been asked to me in
some stuff that he wants to talk about.
So, I feel like Yussepa, do you want to, do you want to raise some of your questions and
your thoughts about the recent Stargates marketplace?
Because I think that's where some of the infrastructure questions come.
And we've also got some questions about the roadmap as well.
And some of our listeners, listeners watches have also asked some questions about things
like NFT interop and stuff.
So we'll cover off some of those as well.
Just in case they're in the chat going, why haven't you asked our questions?
Which they might be.
I think the history was we were talking about this a little bit last week, I believe, we
were talking about the launch of the marketplace and just the growth of RPC calls.
And there were some questions around the caching layer and those types of things.
And then because you and I talked about it really briefly within Discord, and then Jake
came on and said, kind of talking through it.
So that's the reason we thought of this conversation here.
So maybe give us a little bit of an overview of the Stargates tech stack, maybe from top
to bottom a little bit.
And then we can maybe dump in some of those items.
I can talk more about the interest of.
I've been involved a little, but so we have like the RPC knows like in different geographic
locations currently we are using clover to, to, to distribute like the law.
So it, it will hit the closest data center or closest now to your location, like you
as a user to reduce like the latency to, to do queries or send transactions.
I think like in the last seven days, we have received like 800 million requests now to
or press 10 RPC and prints.
And the other layer on top of that RPC I introduced like right before the marketplace is like
a caching layer.
And we have like many complaints.
We don't have like an indexer yet.
We are working that.
But then we rely on the public knows RPC and rest 10 points.
But it was taken too long to load your profile.
And that's because it'll for each collection, there's like a different instance of a contract.
So you have to query if each contract to get which NFTs I use her owns on this contract
and so on for every collection.
So that's why it took like too long to do it.
So we, I made this API to, to do it like on the back end insert.
So when you first request your profile, it, because it's, it's in also it will like just
throw go routines at the same time to query all the contracts at the same time and get
all the NFTs you on and then retrieve metadata retrieve like if they have like a price associated
to the NFT.
And it was really nice because like your profile loads now, I guess under a second.
Yeah.
It's really, it's really fast.
Yeah.
But that increases the amount of quotes to, to on RPCs and rest 10 points.
But it's impressive like call the contracts because we are going to contracts and they
are taking like really huge amount of calls.
And I think like since we are using the permission custom was my approach contracts are being
by default.
So they are kept in memory on every node.
So when you try to execute a query or a transaction to a contract, it's already memory the contract,
so it will take less time to do the execution and they're responding very fast now.
I think like it, the beginning contracts helps with gas cost and, and query time.
So yeah, I think some of the interest we have is go ahead.
Sorry, Frank.
I was just saying it's interesting that pin by default.
I hadn't realized that that was so is they pin when, when you instantiate governance
contracts, are they pin by default or is that something you specifically done as, as if
you will pull up quotes through governance, they are being by default.
So you don't have to submit like that additional governance products to pin contracts.
At the end since each instance, it just uses the same code ID.
Yeah.
It's, it's faster like having the contracts been.
And I think that that's why we suggested that it was to increase the, the memory allocate
to pin contracts because there are cash and it will be faster to execute transactions.
So where is that caching layer?
Yeah, that caching layer we are using provider, which is kind of like Heroku.
I know I, I never use Heroku, but it's called fly IO, I think.
So the cool thing about this is like to define your container, your Docker container, for
example, and then you just choose, I want to avoid this to, to these regions and have
these other regions as backups in case like they can deploy to a region, they will deploy
to a different region.
And they have like any cast network.
So they give you like the URL and it's basically the same as Clofure, where it will keep the
closest data center.
So we are using both right now Clofure and this other service to serve the APIs.
And that's if that service needs data, it just calls the standard Cloudflare RPC APIs
to the region.
So it just, and then Cloudflare takes over to figure out what the closest region is and
then yeah, everything like ties together.
Like, we are using the a band that's our Clofure setup and this other service to get the closest
and helps as well.
Well, the volume is pretty much staying where it was.
I mean, after the marketplace launched, it was a thousand to 2000 requests a second on
the back end.
And it's, I mean, right now, even as we're talking, it's 850.
So it just kind of continues.
It's pretty stable.
Europe is definitely higher than I think the rest of the US, although, you know, around
this time it's about even because it looks like a lot of folks are, are on the marketplace.
The other thing is like, since we are running like the public infrastructure, like everyone
uses the endpoints.
So for example, if you have used Cobble, I think they use or endpoints and the, and
other tooling as well.
So it's hard at the end to maintain the public infrared because if everyone is relying on
that, if you go down, like it will affect other parts.
So that's, that's like an idea of the throughput.
A question that we've had a couple of times actually on Twitter was, do you have any idea
on the volume as in volume of sales?
I mean, a lot of those hits will be people browsing, but yeah, some of them will be selling.
I've certainly noticed just from a cursory look at like what the floor is on a given
day and how it's moving and stuff that it feels like there's a lot of NFTs trading hands
at the moment.
Do you guys know, have any idea of like what those numbers are?
We just have, since we are still working on our indexer, we don't have like the detailed
data, but we are working on it, but let me see.
I can change, change with Star.
Yeah, I think like, like 20 million stars in buys, maybe in the last week.
Wow.
20 million stars in buys, is that what you said?
Yeah.
And that's like 1% is born.
So yeah.
So there's a lot of stuff going up in smoke right now.
At Stargaze, I know Juno has a 12 year inflation, is that the right term?
What's the right term?
Minting schedule.
Minting schedule?
Yeah.
I mean schedule, right?
No schedule.
Minting cliff.
Stargaze is five, it's five years.
Is that right?
No, we have like this field earning.
So each year is reduced by a third.
So in theory, like, yeah, it will take, I don't know, it was like five or seven, something
like that.
But it falls off pretty quick, right?
It will never reach like the 4 billion, but it would just keep reducing and reducing.
The target, you could, you could say like it's 4 billion.
But yeah, since we have like the trading volume, then like all the stakers will still receive
like that.
Rewards for staking.
Yeah.
Right.
So what's your, what's like the next steps on the roadmap?
I know you've mentioned the indexer, but presumably there's some other things coming
up too.
In terms of the backend like infrastructure, yeah, the indexer, it's taking a little bit
of time because we have different products or features that we want to launch.
So we want to make it part of like, usually you pull like the blockchain data and then
parse the messages.
So we're trying to split this into just the indexer that pulls all the data and then puts
all the information into a stream, like a Kafka stream, for example, so that we want
to support like replaying all the history in case you need like a new feature, but hey,
I missed data from like, I don't know, a week before.
So we want to be able to replay all the history without hitting nodes again because full nodes
are really slow when you try to query.
So we are trying to overload like just index everything, everything like blocks and transactions
into S3 buckets.
And then when you want to replay, you only will fetch from S3 block, S3 storage and not
relying on pull nodes.
Is that going to be like Parquet or something like that?
Sorry?
Is that going to be like Parquet or something like that?
Or is it going to be like literally streams?
Yeah, streams.
So the idea is like integrate different services that just you want a new service just attached
to the stream and start receiving like transactions or whatever data you want.
Right, so just like, you're kind of like a source sync type situation.
And in terms of the marketplace, the contract already has like different features like beats,
like the old channel and we have like beating on collections, which is not part of the front
end yet because we are waiting to the final audit report to come back.
We need to do some adjustments.
So the safest is just like the buy now, which is just doesn't rely on the contract to hold
any funds because you just buy and then you will send the funds to the seller royalties.
But yeah, I think that those will be the upcoming features.
I guess the one I like is like the beating on collections because you can be, for example,
you want a bad kid, you don't care which one you just beat.
I want to pay 100 stars for a bad kid and anyone with a bad kid can take the beat and
accept the offer.
Right.
That's cool.
So the question of the eBay thing where you can say, I will sell this for this price,
but it's kind of coming from the buyer end.
Yeah, like a two way to be a little strong.
So a nerdy question on incentive mechanisms.
What's the auction model you're using for the auction contracts?
Right now it's just like just beats and the seller will have to accept the offer they
want.
It's not like a victory or anything.
Yeah, but yeah, we are planning on adding more different mechanics to auction style,
like a Dutch, US Dutch auction style to discover very pricing for NFTs.
I was kind of curious because I think I saw either you or Shane tweeting the Tim Ruff
Garden blockchain series recently and obviously Tim Ruff Garden did a series on economic incentives
and game theory and whatnot.
And as a very lapsed economics person from way back in the day, I rewatched it sometime
ago in lockdown and I was just like, I wonder if that's because they've been designing their
auction mechanics.
So I was kind of curious.
Yeah, so yeah, I think like there is more features.
I can really say more, but yeah, there will be more cool features.
We have like a huge roadmap now.
And we're just trying to prioritize the most requested ones because everyone wants like
different things, you know, like they want like say a history volume and everything inside
the marketplace.
And when you go to like, for example, Osmosis, if you want to know like information about
like a pool, you go to info.osmosis.
It's not like built in the main Osmosis site.
But yeah, we are trying to, we don't like this is like very important for trading NFTs
and trying to build it for the marketplace.
Cool.
And there's a question.
Kid is gas.
Yeah.
So I think we said last week, the funniest thing that I heard in Prague was that bad
kids are the blue chip NFT.
What do you, what do you think about that?
Somebody say that.
Yeah.
They're cool.
We will have to see volume, but I guess like there is like huge sales right now for bad
kids and also for Stargaze points.
I think like probably those two, I'm not really sure.
Yeah.
What was the second one?
Stargaze, what?
Box.
Yeah.
Stargaze points.
I should have bought more bad kids.
I sold one, which was shocking.
I just put one out there just to mess with the marketplace and then it went.
I was like, shit.
Damn it.
I'm just watching like the cobalt stream for new listings and sales.
Yeah.
To add your tier list, I'm sure it's on your list, but the idea of like I sold it.
I want to see if it's for sale.
I want to see if who else sold it.
I want to see how much money I lost.
Yeah.
Clearly I made the wrong decision selling it.
So how wrong was my decision?
That's always good to know.
I have curiosity, what's your favorite collection that's been on Stargaze or hey?
I think I know what Shane's is.
I'm pretty sure Shane's is glitch candy or Hyperion.
I don't know.
Like there's multiple ones that I like.
Yeah.
Probably Hyperion is because all the the cutting side that I'm impressed with that same for
glitch candies and of course like bad kids.
My avatar right now is like Hyperion.
I'm disappointed that my glitch candies are worth less than the random bad kid that I
want.
Like one bad kid is I think it's worth more than two of the glitch candies.
I'm like,
Can you just go glitch candy, Mad?
Yeah.
A little bit.
I, well, so I don't have any.
We need a cast have six.
We've been a chance to validate.
We've been involved in Stargaze test nets from literally when the discord opened.
Yeah.
Like it was our first chain as well.
Like so it's like, oh, we're going to support the network.
But then we got two of them greedy.
The whole experience of the test nets are really nice.
Like we as the Stargaze also made mistakes on test nets, but that came out with good
things like, for example, a bear integration testing.
Like there, I remember like in one test net, like we broke IBC because wiring issues and
the big app.go which is a mess to maintain.
So every time there is an upgrade, we test like the previous version can connect to cosmoses
or cosmos golf in the integration test.
And then we see merely the upgrade and the integration test.
And then we keep testing that the IBC connection is not broken because it's the most critical
thing like able to transfer through IBC.
Yeah.
And that's what I got from from test nets and a lot more things.
But I think that more significant one.
Well, we were also saying when there was the 32 million dollars sent to the wrong address
fun times that it was on a Stargaze test net.
You guys punk the test net, didn't you?
Like it was you, wasn't it?
Put the upgrade handler that said, if you actually read this handler, get in touch with
Jorge.
Yeah.
That was brilliant.
I wish more people did that.
But we have this like challenge like because we try to put everything to be transpiring
as possible in terms of code.
And an important sign is Barriero to be able to, even if you don't understand like coding,
like, but at least just reading if there is nothing like very suspicious.
And in this case was like kind of like, it was sending funds to somewhere else.
And yeah, if you read this, then you will get extra points and the test net just by reading
what's going into the next.
That's awesome.
Genius.
Have you done any of that on mainnet?
Have you funny if there's just random stuff in the mainnet?
Just hash it.
Meow.
Meow will send you a bad kid if you see this message.
That's right.
Yeah.
I'm definitely going to start reading all the diffs on Stargate.
Meow is definitely the bad kid whale as well.
That's the thing.
Like as soon as he's had a beer, it's just like, it's just like bad kids for all.
You never get that.
Wasn't there a limit on the minting or as you just go on through marketplaces buying
them all?
Funny though, it was, the limit was 50.
50, yeah.
Was it?
Yeah.
What the hell?
It took a week to sell out because it was a huge collection, I think.
Yeah, it was 10,000.
But yeah, it took a whole week to mint.
I think it was 50, the limit.
The full price is $2,400 at the moment.
It's like $2,400.
Yeah, how much were they?
$2,400 stars.
I think it was $2,22?
Something like that?
Yeah.
It was around about the 200 mark.
Yeah.
I could probably look up an allager.
Although to be fair, I guess that probably means they're about the same.
They're a par.
Yeah.
They're hurt.
A bit more.
I don't know.
Again, look, look.
We don't talk about how much was spent on glitch candies.
That's not...
I like the peak of the stress on Prop 16.
I think it was when the 114 Shutt collection got launched.
I think I just strayed up 825 of those.
The floor of those is, I think, about 75 stars.
Whatever.
Oh, 114 Shutt.
Yes.
They're very cool.
Yeah, these are very cool.
Actually, the prices now are extremely low.
Yeah.
To be fair, I've got pretty much the coolest one I've actually seen anywhere.
I've got like... I don't know how many more numbers.
It's like 924 or something.
It's like this really, really ripped one.
It's very, very cool.
But yeah, the other 24 are less exciting.
I do like the... I didn't really realize the 25 nights as we were talking about in
Channel as well, but the structure is if you can get all the shards of one image and
then you get something out of it, that's a really cool piece too.
That's pretty neat.
Floor price on a Glitchcandy is 1800 stars, Fray.
Maybe I should... I've got a diptych.
I actually got a double diptych.
You got a what?
So you know a diptych where it's two that should go together.
They obviously part of the same generative cycle.
So I've got two sets of two that visibly go together.
I thought it was another DPS job.
No.
No, I wouldn't do that to you.
But yeah, maybe I can be persuaded to part with a couple of those.
And as I've said, I swear on the show, the most exciting Glitchcandy that we have is
actually printed off as a half meter by half meter on art paper, Glease print,
the expense of the studio, the gallery quality print is framed in the office.
Did the print cost you more than the NFT?
No.
That is a very easy question.
There are three universities and two art schools not too far away from where I live.
So I just found a print shop that was near to one of the campuses and was like,
do you do gallery quality prints?
And they were like, yes, we do because 1800 art students want their stuff
gallery printed a year from us.
And I was like, ooh, I bet at this time of year, nobody's giving you jack shit.
And they're just like, yeah, tenner.
I was like half meter by half meter.
They're like, yeah, Bob's your uncle.
Don't sell that NFT because you'd have to give up the print as well.
Yeah, I'd have to have to post it, right?
You would?
Yeah.
And Seth Green, if you guys know Seth Green actor and like responsible for like robot
checking, those types of things, he got fished out of a few board apes.
I think he had on Ethereum and he was building a series on some of those apes because he had
the rights to them.
And after he got fished, he had to pause the series creation because by law, he doesn't
own the right on those items anymore, even though they were stolen out of his wallet.
How crazy is that?
Wait, so when you buy a board ape, do you actually get the copyright?
I guess that was the idea, at least what he had in here.
So like there's a whole story around it on Buzzfeed around that he that they pause the
creation of, I don't know what it was, if it was a short or what the heck it was.
But it's pretty wild that he was building something off those ownership, off those apes.
And somebody fished them out of them, which is like $300,000 worth of these things, USD.
And they paused it.
So now he's trying to get back in terms of trying to continue.
But I thought that was, I don't know if I've heard a story like that before around something
like that, where if they actually, in that situation, does that give them the usage rights
to be able to use that in any sort of, any even kind of degenerate structure around that
use of that ape, right?
Yeah, I guess it depends on what's specified when you buy it, right?
Well, I think copyright is actually a little bit different in the US, isn't it?
I think you might have to register your copyright on a thing when you make it in the UK, certainly
as the second you do something, like if I were to record this conversation we're having right now,
aside from the slight, the fact that I'd be collecting personal data about you and therefore
be a data controller and that would be bad.
Let's ignore the general data protection regulation.
And if I put like a beat to it or something and claimed it as like a musical work, which
would again be the strangest hip hop track you've ever heard, but let's assume I did that
as well.
The second it became like a creative work, I would own the copyright to that by default
and it's completely inalienable unless you sell it.
Or unless, and this is the creepy one that a lot of people don't know, it's about their day job contracts.
Your employer has already got you to sign over your copyright, which is more common,
very, very common for software engineers.
That's the same.
In the US, I think anything that you create while employed, you can even make the case
that even if it's after hours, it's difficult to say, hey, did you use, you know, what types
of resources did you have to be able to create this?
But yeah.
I've always had to have my contracts changed because I'm just like...
Yeah, you know what's funny, I read something on Twitter from a guy that divorced and the
divorce, it was like the open source contributions.
He had to pay for those because he was part of both.
So be careful with your open source.
It's going to be funny when wallets start suing wallets.
Yeah, you had some of these ideas when you were working for us on this other project.
It could happen.
So, what the hell is Kato funding?
Oh, so Kato is a on-ramp for Fiat into crypto.
And Kato, so we just had in the comments, Pop Moses said that Kato funding has just passed.
So that is funding a crypto on-ramp, I say a Fiat on-ramp into the Cosmos ecosystem as
Kato is the preferred service provider, is my understanding of several, what are we going
to call them, refugee projects, orphan projects from the artist formerly known as the terror ecosystem.
And so Kato coming to Cosmos is, specifically in this case, Juno, is a very big deal for
those projects migrating on their way over into the Cosmos and the IBCverse.
So that's very cool.
So it looks like it's a payment infrastructure.
Is that basically what it is?
Yeah.
Okay.
So it's UI and methods to be able to ease the friction of payments.
So my understanding is it's USDC and obviously a lot of chains have access to USDC or Accelar.
USDC seems to be getting quite a lot of traction at the moment.
So I assume that in the case of Juno.
I don't know what it would be in the case of Stargaze.
Do you guys have a preferred?
What's your preferred bridge for things like USDC?
Is it Accelar or is it some other bridge?
We haven't discussed yet for USDC, but in terms of for NFTs, we are going to use Gravity Bridge,
which we already started implementation.
Right, right, right.
Cool.
Sorry, I'm laughing.
I'm just trying to read Popo's fucking message.
It's like a word's work.
I've been trolling Popo's on Twitter, writing his shit backwards.
Yeah, I saw you posting something written fully backwards at Woods and I was like,
I'm not sure this is sledging.
I think it's just you sledging yourself.
Yeah, I find it funny because it's as incoherent to me as what he wrote in the first place.
Is that a keyboard replacement or is somebody actually typing that out?
That's me literally going letter for letter typing it backwards.
I didn't mean you.
I'm at Popo.
I feel like maybe he's typing with one of these but with the wrong letters on it.
It's not their fault.
They just tried to build a custom keyboard and just got all the letters the wrong way around.
I mean, Popo's can't read.
So I told them and given them like a cold, not a layout keyboard.
It's literally just got bones all over it.
Just little bone pictures.
It just matches the bones.
Everything looks like a bone.
So we've also got, do we have, I'm trying to keep us more to time than before.
So unless we have any super pressing questions for Jorge,
I think that we've had a, we've pretty much, everything we thought we might talk about beforehand.
And it's been very interesting.
Shall we do, we got a couple of questions that we have received over the week.
Shall we deal with those and then maybe do wrap ups?
Yeah.
We can definitely drag those questions out for 40 minutes though.
Well, in order to help not do that, I'm going to try and not talk and just pose the questions and you guys can answer them.
And that will, that will be possible.
Well, I'll mute myself and then I can, and then even if I do talk, it would just be flappy, flappy, flappy.
So, okay.
I think we've, we've, we've answered the top one on there before.
So if you guys had a fully stacked team, you could stick on a new project.
I guess that means like throw out a new project.
What would that project be bonus points if it doesn't exist yet?
Is that a question for Hawaii?
It might be a question for any of us.
I mean, go for it.
Skip.
You say, I have no ideas.
I have nothing.
I have no dreams.
Yeah.
Like, I really like projects that have uses.
Yeah.
You know,
there's a lot of, there's a lot of projects.
And I noted this when I first started looking at DeFi like quite a while ago,
that a lot of projects just shuffle coins.
They're just back and forth moving things around,
filling blocks with just transactions, moving shit around,
swapping things for things and doing nothing.
So, you know, if I had a fully stacked team, I would build something that does something.
What that is, I do not know.
But there are some, you know, but that would be my dream is to build something that does something.
There's a lot of, there's good projects out there that do that.
Like, you know, there's a cache and Althea, I think you say.
Althea.
Yep.
Yeah.
I think it's a, I'm going to butcher this.
It's similar to, similar to other projects off of Cosmos.
I believe it is a way to utilize and maybe piggyback off of internet lines to be able to provide service elsewhere and be able to capture rewards associated that.
That's a really bad, I think that's a really awful explanation of it.
Yeah, they have like this network.
So, for example, you want to become like a provider.
You can have like your own router that will give internet to more people and then use their hour has like the, like, there's a way to charge or like the subscription or something like that.
Right.
Yes, I think at the moment they're using like, so it's like a paper minute type internet right.
It's just like, or, you know, regularly paying with with blockchain monies.
I think they use USDC at the moment, but I think the purpose of their blockchain is to control that and use their own token at some point.
Yeah.
So like I jumped on some spaces a little while ago and asked a bunch of questions.
I can't remember the answers to, but you know, team seems onto it.
And I really like what they've done in terms of like distributing internet.
It's sort of like piggybacks.
It's like a user can start like a node and basically collect fees for, you know, people using Althea through their gateway, I guess you would say.
So it's interesting.
I don't know how like they've onboarded like companies to do it as well to provide, I guess, points of presence as a provider.
But I'm not sure how it goes legally with like say if I was using our local carrier to, you know, distribute the internet to people who pay me.
I don't know how that would work.
But I think that's part of the model.
But, you know, things that do things in real life is is is what I find to be really interesting and how people can sort of roll that back to their blockchain and some things don't need a blockchain.
But, you know, it certainly does make sense for some projects.
So that's what I'm somebody said to me in Prague after something I said, well, two things happened.
Somebody said, you really hate DeFi, don't you?
Like, it's like, it's like, took a took a step back and just like straight their chin and swim.
You know, you really hate DeFi, don't you?
And I was like, hey, is a strong word.
But but that Pup most comment, like blockchains working jobs, they hate to buy things they don't need like the Fight Club reference.
I was like that that epitomizer how I feel about a lot of DeFi.
I'm like, look, let's not just let's not just make shit stuff on the blockchain.
It's not necessary.
Like, yeah, my answer to the question is really, really simple.
It's basically that there's the problems in Demiqa Web 2 are largely as a result of the incentive models that have emerged there.
And incentive models rely on being able to design economics and you can't always expect to get it right.
But we have now with blockchain one of the most comprehensive toolkits for building incentive models that anybody outside of a central bank planning room has ever seen.
And the ability to instead of starting a startup, build an incentive model and a startup and a derivative token that expresses the intentions of that incentive model is one of the most revolutionary concepts that's happened in technology in the last 50 years.
And, you know, wouldn't it be good if we use that to like further the cause of human rights and democracy and stop in climate change and or at least try to ameliorate some of these bad things that we've seen happening as a result of rampant neoliberalism and late capitalism,
like rather than just like dicking around with, you know, shuffling around bits that represent imaginary money.
And this is why so another person in Prague literally left a conversation with me walked away and it turned out they had gone have a lie down.
The next day they were like, you kind of bummed me out yesterday, man.
That's not hard for me to believe.
Yeah, somehow it's very believable, isn't it? So, Crypto King on Twitter has a question for you, Jorge, which is that what kind of because I know Shane's talked about this as well to us before.
What are the plans in the roadmap to move beyond simple images for NFTs on Stargate is like, and do you have like some much more advanced use cases you think I know you already talked about the generative stuff but do you have much more advanced use cases like
Gated to access to content or like NFTs is used for IoT devices or anything like crazy, crazy.
Well, we already was already using like gated access, for example, in our discord, you can access like projects, channels, if you are an NFT holder, and some other projects like Stargate's punks, I think they are using it as well for their discord.
You will get access to different things in G-Hole like an NFT from the collection.
I think like right now we are focusing on the core infrastructure so we can add more things without having like the technical depth in the future.
But I guess like the upcoming things probably lending and borrowing with NFTs.
And as I say, like focusing on the experience, the infrastructure for adding more features in the future because we try to add more features that are more polished rather than adding too many features which someone may hate because it's not working as expected.
Yeah.
Oh, sorry, you said that.
I think going back to that last one around unlimited funds, I think this area around using the chain or using the structure for identity and being able to use different use cases around identity would be my kind of go to as well because it kind of fits the way that Jorge just said.
And I think being able to either use an entity as a token in some sort of sense to be able to prove identity or to be able to use obviously devices like hardware devices and other types of things off the chain to be able to use identity.
I know Czech is doing that as I was there kind of structure on Czech D but I think that would be there's I think there's a lot of areas around authentication identity that this is such a great use case for our great technology to apply to I think there's so much so much to be done there in terms of user experience and other types of things that would be really beneficial.
I'll start I'll start that I'll just issue stargaze NFTs to it says verified by King nodes.
Yeah, I'll just go and have a beer with you and you show me your ID and buy me a beer and I'll give you.
And then there's there's taking rewards turns into King right.
Yeah, King token.
That's right. Yeah.
You can't get anywhere.
We're talking about we're talking about Web of Trust Web of Trust is a feature for the name service on Juno.
Maybe that's the minimum viable product of the Web of Trust feature is you go and have a beer with null and then we add a field to the NFT that only only nulls address can edit on every NFT on the entire service.
Right.
And then yeah proof of beer. Yeah.
It's cal of course it's Callum with this with the sly aside.
Very rye very funny.
Yeah proof of beer.
If you've had a beer with null we verify you little tick mark.
You just need to maybe that can be the how equivalent of the Twitter tick is you only get the blue tick you only get the blue tick on how the blue wolf if you've had a beer with null.
I just know there's one more comment.
I'd like to flag as a question while we're doing probably this will be our last question for the show, which is from total spud.
Great name.
Love the energy.
Guys, can you speak about the hot topic of stable coins specifically how you view the decentralized stable coin future in cosmos mainly IST agoracran and conduct stable or any others.
Well we need one.
But do you want to be the one to implement it on your chain.
I think I think I think you can't have a algorithmic stable coin that's tied to your main token for your chain.
So are we talking about a back stable coin or an algorithmic stable coin or just a stable coin in general because I think IST is algorithmic isn't it.
The one on a work.
So the problem is, if you tie it to your main token for your chain you can destroy your ecosystem as we've seen as soon as there's a vulnerability in the way that you know you can't have a stable coin.
You know the stable coin works so I think you know you'd have to be brave to implement it on your chain.
And I just was skeptical about algorithmic stable coins because now I haven't seen one that really works as a like a USD peg.
So I don't know anyone else have a viewpoint.
My dad has a strong opinion.
So they're saying IST is over collateralized but it's only over collateralized until the value of the thing you're collateralizing it with is no longer over collateralizing it.
So you know this unless there's a way to liquidate it when the collateral becomes worthless.
Unless you have a counter cyclical asset it's all basically garbage right because the reason the reason a government can stop a bank run is because they can well they can first of all tell the bank to close their doors and say we'll buy you out.
And then second of all they can issue government debt on a 150 year cycle that's leveraged against against a constant tax rate.
So you're like well unless the chain itself can leverage its inflation to buy out debt as some kind of stable counter cyclical bond even though it doesn't even have to be stable.
I mean like I'm a fucking prat so I have my savings part in government bonds.
And then for some reason in 2016 the British government did something that shat the value of government bonds can't think what it was you know something mid year that just completely fucked my long term savings.
But even in the context of like that which turned out to be a volatile asset much more volatile than it normally be for most government debt it's still you know compared to crypto a joke like in terms of how unvolatile it is you know.
So until you have something like that which is just going to kind of like no matter how the market goes up or down it's only going to be pegged by a little bit.
What can guarantee that other than the main chain itself right cat and with the main chain would would a chain ever back things that are on it like back its own because then you still back into the terror situation right where.
The best the main chain can do is offer up its own token which is positively correlated with the thing so it's not actually counter cyclical it's just.
It's just more of the same you kind of need to get this one you lose the other basically.
Yeah so what crypto can you even a store value crypto is going to be positively correlated.
Like so unless you literally buy gold bars or something like what is going to be counter cyclical enough to hedge against the stablecoin.
So just just reading pot mosses stuff that is writing here about IST because so far as I know these comments don't come up in the in the stream when you're actually watching it so I haven't been able to see them so just I'm going to read them out because it's interesting.
So.
I read about like.
I don't have to read it so UST is algorithmic.
Okay.
Yes.
IST is not so saying IST is only a over collateralized coin.
And it will be liquidated in the worst case.
So.
Even so and then he does say further down what I was going to say further down.
He says collateralized eventually has a limit which is the problem right so if you if you have a if you have IST in circulation and then it's collateralized.
It's pretty easy to see that sometimes the market can fall 80 to 90% right.
The whole of the Cosmos ecosystem has fallen probably at least what 70 to 80% in the last three months.
So if you have even a pool of tokens that are collateralizing IST.
You know what happens when it's liquidated do you do then just get issued the tokens from the pool.
That were collateralizing it so it's it's still not stable.
So there is a point where it becomes not stable.