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All right, yeah, Black Ox.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent

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Validator teams.

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Hello, and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent Validators

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on the Cosmos.

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And as you can see this week, we don't have null with us because he is down with

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a nasty bout of the old COVID.

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Normally he's kind of ahead of the curve on things including the terror crash,

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but this time he's doing things after the rest of us it seems.

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So he senses apologies.

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But Jaby's joined us from the Pumos Palace.

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Is that the name?

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Yeah, exactly.

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And yeah, we've got a few things we want to talk about today.

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It's going to be quite infrastructure heavy, I guess, because there's a few things

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that are obviously happening.

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It particularly regards like UST and Luna and a lot of the projects in the fall

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out from that last week, which I think we want to talk about.

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And we also got some kind of, I suppose, bits and pieces of news we want to talk

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about first.

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So I think one thing that was mentioned on, I know we were talking about before

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we started, I don't know if you're Serpa, you want to talk about the Stargate

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launch a little bit.

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A light piece of news in this topic?

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Yeah, sure.

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Yeah, I mean, so as well, because you're involved in a lot of the infrastructure

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provision for that launch.

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So you've got some quite interesting metrics on just how busy that was and

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everything, which I think is pretty interesting.

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It was pretty interesting.

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I think this is a follow up because we talked about obviously Stargaz and we

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had Shane on a few weeks ago and those types of good things.

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And so, yeah, so the marketplace just launched yesterday, I think it was,

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all these days are of red numbers on my stock refer running together.

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But yeah, so the marketplace launched and some interesting type numbers.

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I think Jorge actually posted a couple of these screenshots as well.

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But just the API structure, the Stargaz team built this pretty cool API kind

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of caching layer for some of the NFT calls.

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And so they tried to determine what of those RPC and other types of calls were

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being cached.

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And so they built kind of an API structure in there to do some caching.

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I think a local data store of some sort that was returning a heavy amount of

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static data, then there was obviously coming back to the actual validator set,

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or I'm sorry, to the RPC note set for being like a contract addresses and other

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types of things.

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And so I think before that launch, we've had like different spikes when we had

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mints and those mints kind of got to somewhere around maybe a thousand

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transactions or requests a second somewhere around that.

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And then yesterday, we went from, I think when it was away from those mints,

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pretty much a static load on the RPC and REST calls of around 100, maybe 150

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a second somewhere around there.

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Then yesterday, it went up to about 6,000 a second for maybe a good hour when

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the marketplace first opened.

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I think people just looking and being put things up for sale and other transactions

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and things like that.

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And now it's kind of averaging out and staying pretty close to about a good

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1,000 to 1,500 a second.

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So it's actually pretty interesting to kind of see that load hit and just how

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well these nodes actually respond to that much traffic.

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We haven't really, I've never done too much testing on that or being able to

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simulate testing like that, but it was actually pretty cool to see it go.

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So the marketplace is good.

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We've heard really good feedback from everyone, at least on Twitter, minus

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a node that got out of sync today and producing some old data, which was weird.

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But everything else on that, we've had, you know, I think the whole thing around

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this is trying to have a great user experience from marketplace.

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And I think everything I've heard so far has been, it's been pretty positive.

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So that's good stuff.

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So I have a, go ahead.

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Yeah, I was going to say, so we heard that the Cosmos max transactions per

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second, the theoretical max is like a thousand transactions per second.

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Right.

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So obviously that's not like transactions, including the block.

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That's also including, you know, queer transactions as well.

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Right.

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Yeah. And actually, if you look at the, if you go for a look at the actual block

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transactions during that structure, it doesn't change that much honestly.

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Like, like I was looking at it was coming from maybe, you know, 234 up to

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1215 25 transactions per block.

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It wasn't massive.

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Like it wasn't like we were seeing, you know, like you're even seeing as a, as a

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baseline at Evo's and things like that where you're, you know, where Joe was

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looking at, you know, 300 transactions and blocking things like that.

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It's still pretty low, but I think the number of queries it's going to

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be, you know, it's going to be a lot of queries.

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It's calling the contract to get addresses and ownership and, you know,

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everything else that goes with that.

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There's a lot of, there's a lot of querying kind of going on to, to, to

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build the UI and to, you know, to be able to create.

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Transaction, they're bill actually, I guess, be able to get to the point where

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you're actually putting a transaction in.

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Can you give any sort of estimate for like how much that infrastructure

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costed, like how much per month, because to me that sounds like an absurd.

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Performance metric, right?

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That many transactions.

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And from what I've seen, I was, I was there during the mint when the, when

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the new transactions were at max and there was, there was no lack.

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Everything just went so well.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So it's, it's actually really not that expensive.

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So we, the, the, the, was using a lot of VPSs and like non-bare metal type of

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things.

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And when, when they were looking at, um, turning this, uh, getting some help

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with it and then we were talking a lot about bare metal servers and other types

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of things that we're doing with that.

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So, so right now, um, right now it's, it's basically run in the past, um, when

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they're on some AWS machines and, and some digital ocean and things like that.

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I think they had 17 or 18 nodes.

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I think that we're synced and sitting behind different types of LBs load

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balancers in terms of doing that.

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And so right now I'm down to seven.

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So I, uh, actually that's not true.

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I have, I have eight.

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Uh, there's two in the West coast of the U S there's three nodes in the East.

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There's three in Europe and we're, we're actually standing up to in Asia

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because, um, we're starting to realize how much traffic is coming out of, out

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of Asia, um, um, that's being right now redirected to, to Europe.

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And so Europe is carrying up those, that Europe structure is carrying up pretty

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decent amount of traffic.

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And so if you think about AX 101s, that type of pricing, um, maybe a little bit

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more based on where those things are sitting, but I think overall those eight

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nodes, um, and two of those are really, uh,

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and two of those are, we're also running archive nodes because we wanted to

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keep some extra copies of the blockchain.

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So those are, you know, much bigger machines with eight terabytes of NBME

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and stuff like that, just so it keeps up.

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Um, I don't know.

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It's probably, I gotta do the math, but it's probably 15, 2000 bucks a month.

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USD.

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It's not awful.

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Um,

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That's really not that bad.

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No, it's not bad at all.

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But I think, I think compared to what it was, I think, um, I think there,

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I think before that, when the VPS days, I'm not talking about school here,

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but it was probably two to three times that, um, when they were doing it on the

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AWS side, you know, and digital ocean and those types of things.

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Cause there were actually some pretty decent, the power of VPS servers in there.

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And then so it's one of the benefits of bare metal, right?

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So the management goes up, um, to be able to, and just be able to do,

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do some better planning and things like that.

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So, so right now that's sitting behind cloudflare.

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And then cloudflare talks to multiple nodes in, um, in each region.

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And I have, I do load balancing on the node level.

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So basically it, cloudflare talks to both HAProxies and those are go all to all

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nodes underneath there.

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So I can have an outage, you know, from an HAProxy perspective,

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recommend outage on a node perspective, those types of things,

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and it'll still respond.

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So, um, so I don't know, we're, I don't know what the theoretical limit is

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and what we have so far right now.

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It's more about redundancy than, than scale.

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Cause it seems like we're maybe past some of the larger spikes,

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at least for right now.

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Um, so it's going to get to where we can, you know, I want to get to where

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I could deal with regional outages or server outages and other types of stuff

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that breaks in our typical daily lives and not have it be a, you know,

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a four alarm fire type stuff.

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So, uh, a practical question.

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Just so I understand, is this, um, these, these machines,

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they're primarily the RPC machines or they're also running the,

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the caching layer and the custom stuff that you were talking about.

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That is separate.

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So those guys are for the NFT side, those caching is separate.

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And then that layer talks to the main cloudflare RPC API, um,

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restful services.

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And then that gets distributed regionally depending on where that,

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where that's coming from.

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And then that, that, that API levels also in cloudflare, I should say that

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caching levels also built in cloudflare.

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So, um, so basically it's, it's all in the same structure.

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Okay.

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Is that, do you know how that's built?

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Like what kind of service that is?

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No, I don't, I don't, we should have, we could,

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but Jorge should come out and talk about that a little bit.

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Cause I, I think what they're doing there is pretty cool compared to, um,

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and how they're, um, uh, how they're dealing with it,

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just the amount of volume that's coming in there.

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It's, it's still pretty amazing since how much is actually getting,

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you know, through that layer out to the RPC type nodes.

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I mean, there's still a huge amount of volume.

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There's some things that they can't cash such as, you know,

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all the kind of blockchain specific and contract lookup things,

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but there's still a, it's pretty,

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it's a lot of users, which is really good.

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I just asked, I just asked Meow, if he knows, uh,

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when he says he does.

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I was going to say, come on, I'll talk about it.

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So Jake, do you want to tell us how the, uh, how the Stargate thing works?

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Real time.

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Yeah.

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He's going to jump on a laptop.

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Um, and, and we'll, we'll, we'll circle,

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we'll circle back around to Stargate marketplace then maybe.

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Yeah.

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Let's talk about more depressing topics.

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Yeah. So, uh, when you say more depressing topics,

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I mean, you want to, do you want to mention, uh, price chat?

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Do you want to talk about, uh, where we, where we're at with UST?

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Where are we at?

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Last time I checked it was like eight cents each,

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but I've been too afraid to look again.

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I think right now it's like 10.

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Yeah.

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It depends on the exchange too, right?

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I was just looking back.

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I was, everybody's listening to this.

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So we're, I was looking back at some of our notes from last,

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from last week.

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And at that point while we were on the call,

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cause I think things are moving a lot while we're in the call,

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USD was at 78 cents and Luna was at $1.24.

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And the world seemed to be ending then.

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So.

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We were just left behind.

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It can always get worse is the, is the month.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I think it's, I think it's quite interesting as well because in,

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I mean, this is something we talked about quite a bit with Prop 16,

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which was the, the theoretical responsibility of the validators,

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how much network control they actually have.

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And I guess what we saw was, we saw as the CEO being effectively on the TV,

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saying one thing, if you like, and the validator set doing another.

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And again, so I guess it's different in the sense of maybe the,

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the prevailing sentiment around the, around the way or in the,

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the validator set, I think did something that was more in line with what the

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community wanted than what maybe do was saying publicly.

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But it's like an interesting scenario, isn't it to play out the validator set.

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Okay.

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No, this is, this is out of control.

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We're stopping the chain.

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Right.

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And also, I mean, I know in our group chat,

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Jaby was talking about the theoretical implications of the tokenomics and things

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that were happening there.

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And it, it certainly seems like, I mean, we also obviously know people that are

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running validates on, on, on terror as well.

240
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:42,000
So, and getting that perspective on this was like really interesting too, right?

241
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,000
Yeah.

242
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,000
And the U.S.T. I mean, I mean, when it really launched in the cosmos, it was such a,

243
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:52,000
it was a really, um, turn point for me at least because it wasn't that long ago.

244
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,000
I don't get me wrong, but it was turn point just because it allowed, um,

245
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:59,000
it brought, I thought it brought a lot of validity to the cosmos and it brought the

246
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,000
capability of taking rewards and other types of things been warning on and being

247
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,000
able to put that in a quote unquote, a safe location and thinking about it that

248
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,000
way and understanding the risks behind that.

249
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,000
But still, like the growth was there and the growth of Luna and everything else,

250
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,000
like it seemed like it's, I think, I think what's really amazing to me is just how

251
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,000
fast, just how fast it unraveled.

252
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,000
Like that, that speed is just unbelievable, right?

253
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,000
And then I was, we were watching, I was watching the circulating supply on the

254
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,000
Luna side because that was, you know, obviously, you know, from the, from the

255
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,000
Mint perspective and just seeing that go from 300 million.

256
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,000
And the next thing, the time you look, it was 17 billion.

257
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,000
And then it was 300 billion or whatever it was.

258
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:45,000
And now it's at 6.5 trillion, whatever that was, but that, that arc was just brutal.

259
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,000
And so, so how did that happen?

260
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:53,000
Was that because they were burning UST to mint Luna and that just kept entering

261
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,000
a death spiral?

262
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,000
What happened there?

263
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,000
How did those, all those mint, they didn't suddenly crank up the inflation, right?

264
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,000
Right.

265
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:11,000
So the whole point of, of Tara USD was that when we get a bunch of value in Tara,

266
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:17,000
we can mint Tara USD, a bunch of Luna, we can get a bunch of Tara USD.

267
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:24,000
But when Tara USD loses its peg, the algorithm says, Oh, well, I just need

268
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,000
to mint more Luna to compensate.

269
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,000
And so it kept minting more and minting more.

270
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,000
And it was like, well, I haven't caught up yet.

271
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,000
And, you know, once you chart it out, it's like, well, it's never going to catch up.

272
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,000
Right.

273
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,000
Yeah.

274
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000
Yep.

275
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,000
And then the Bitcoin sell and everything else, like it's just, it's everything just feeds,

276
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,000
right?

277
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,000
It's just stuff, stuff to have a, it's stuff to have correlating assets that, that are

278
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,000
backing up, obviously, in this algorithm type structure.

279
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:56,000
And because it was so vulnerable, also when you, when you decide to sell 1.4 billion

280
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,000
dollars of it, like, yeah, it's going to drop.

281
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,000
Yeah.

282
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,000
Yeah, it's not worth what it has.

283
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,000
So I think that was all.

284
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:08,000
I like to think of a motorcycle, like an early motorcycle rider, when, you know, they've

285
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:13,000
sped up too much and their, their front wheel starts to wobble, it gets in like this harmonic

286
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,000
situation that just wobbles out of control and you just have to let go and it's fine.

287
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,000
Or, you know, crash.

288
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,000
Right.

289
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,000
Yeah.

290
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,000
Yeah.

291
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,000
So I guess, again, I guess the other thing.

292
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,000
So where, where are we now then?

293
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:38,000
We're, I suppose the interesting thing now is like, you know, what's going to happen in

294
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:43,000
terms of the confidence on the chain, because there's, it's obviously brought down UST,

295
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,000
which is kind of undermined the whole enterprise.

296
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:50,000
But like, you know, looking at it from the perspective of people in the cosmos, it's,

297
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:56,000
you know, first and foremost, terrorism smart contract chain, which has then sort of broke,

298
00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,000
it's kind of suffered almost from an Ethereum problem, which is that a project that a lot

299
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,000
of, to be fair, a lot of projects obviously dependent on the availability of the stable

300
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,000
coin or to defy stuff.

301
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:14,000
But a lot of projects like all the entity projects that, you know, maybe relied on UST is not

302
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:19,500
on ramp, but like didn't necessarily actually need UST in their ecosystem to actually function

303
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:25,000
properly, but mainly were there for the size of the user base or the community have basically

304
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,500
been wrecked by something within the ecosystem that was sort of beyond their control, right?

305
00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:35,000
And that's kind of the, it's kind of ironic, isn't it?

306
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:40,500
Because the terrorists built on the cosmos SDK and cosmos, this whole value proposition

307
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:47,000
is horizontal scaling and anti fragility by being more distributed, right?

308
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,000
Yeah.

309
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,000
I don't know what else to say about it.

310
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,000
Like, I think, I think to, I think one of the benefits and where do we go from here is

311
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,500
that I think ultimate, I mean, there's a lot of people that, that I think we all know,

312
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:07,000
and especially the validator set that might not have want to move things to Fiat because,

313
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,000
you know, think about taxes or thinking about, you know, just rewards other types of things

314
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,000
with that.

315
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,000
And, you know, want to have flexibility to have gas in the tank to maybe launch new

316
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,500
chains or types of things, right?

317
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:21,500
It's a, it's definitely an area that a lot of validators would have used to, and obviously

318
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:26,000
others to be able to store value to, to do something with.

319
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,500
And, and there's just so much loss associated with that.

320
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:33,800
Unfortunately, you know, I think it puts a lot of folks back and creates a lot of scare

321
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,300
and other types of things, which is why, you know, kind of where prices are today is just

322
00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:39,200
a lot of fear, right?

323
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,100
I think ultimately though, I think one of the things that you guys are talking about,

324
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:46,600
what we wanted to talk about today is that I think one of the, it does create his opportunity,

325
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:47,600
right?

326
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,400
And it might create opportunity for other changes in the cosmos to grow, which we, which I know

327
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:57,000
for you want to talk about a little bit, meaning there's opportunities for Juno to play roles

328
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,600
that, that maybe parts of those projects could play.

329
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:05,360
And it might launch new chains and might do other types of things that make overall ecosystem

330
00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:07,000
stronger and more resilient, right?

331
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,640
So I think, you know, that's maybe the best takeaway out of that, maybe.

332
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:11,640
I don't know.

333
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:12,640
Yeah.

334
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:17,600
I mean, I suppose that even, obviously there's, there is an open question of like, you know,

335
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:24,560
there's now sort of like, TerraVe2.

336
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,920
Even if that, like even if you're looking at that from the perspective of being involved

337
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,160
in another smart contract chain in the cosmos, which might, you know, instead might prospectively

338
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,440
be able to bring over large projects from, from Terra now that the market has sort of

339
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,240
lost a degree of confidence in it.

340
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:44,520
There is actually, you know, the question of whether even if that chain restarts and

341
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:49,720
successful, just the simple fact of it being successful and being more IBC aware, if you

342
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,960
like, like more, more aware of its position as a cosmos chain and more willing to engage

343
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,720
in its chain interaction is actually like a potentially a huge sea change for the cosmos.

344
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:05,880
Anyway, like just that fact on its own of, I think the Terra Foundation maybe having that

345
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,320
like the control they did over the ecosystem and over the Terra ecosystem and like its future

346
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:18,280
development, just that fact changing on its own and the chain becoming more actually in

347
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:25,400
practice governed by the very least its developer base and possibly its wider user base too.

348
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,640
And like I say, like we were talking about earlier, like being a control by its validator

349
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:35,400
set, you know, it would be the absolute least because that's demonstrably what's happened.

350
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:40,520
That's again, a huge sea change for Terra and it's probably a really positive thing for

351
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:47,000
cosmos because it's that, you know, even if it keeps a tenth of its user base and brings

352
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,520
them even imagining that all those users and all those projects just went like banished

353
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:57,160
into thin air, if 10% of those users or 10, 20% of those users stay in that ecosystem,

354
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,440
but it moves closer to cosmos, that would be a huge win for the whole cosmos, I think.

355
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:07,680
Yeah, I mean, I largely agree, I think there was a lot of confusion and fear around Terra

356
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:08,680
going down.

357
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:13,520
Like I saw a lot of people messaging about how Terra went down, which took down cosmos

358
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:19,880
and osmosis and secret when really Terra took down the IBC and so you can no longer interact

359
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,520
with them, but those other chains weren't down.

360
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,920
But I think that just that interaction happening caused a lot of fear in the user base.

361
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,560
That was kind of unnecessary and I don't think there's a good enough communication about,

362
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,680
hey, this one chain went down, but everyone else is still like we're still running.

363
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:37,680
We're fine.

364
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,480
And I think there was a lot of confusion around that.

365
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,520
Yeah, Kerberos was fine the whole time.

366
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,960
Yeah, all of the doggy mean chains were just, they were producing blocks, that was the most

367
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,320
important thing.

368
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:58,600
I make more and rewards on Kerberos right now than I was going to say Terra validators,

369
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,600
but that seems rude.

370
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,280
That's a low blow.

371
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:04,280
That's a low blow.

372
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:11,880
You've already had to issue a public apology for your Terra jokes.

373
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:17,440
But there's actually, we're on a flag, we've just had a comment come in, which I saw, I

374
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:23,000
think it's quite an interesting one, just like I know it's a little bit off.

375
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,880
This is kind of picking up from what we were saying about infrastructure a little bit earlier.

376
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,720
So the question is thinking very long time, how do you handle storage needs for full archive

377
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,240
nodes, like if they become very, very, very large.

378
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,680
And I think this is something we've wondered out loud a lot.

379
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:43,760
We've talked about in previous episodes, which is like being brutally honest, a lot of validators

380
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:49,720
are not going to run full archive nodes, and especially in this bear market, now where

381
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,160
we don't know how long it's going to last, I think that it's going to be a genuine question

382
00:20:53,160 --> 00:21:00,360
of who provides these and who provides this kind of public infrastructure, right?

383
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,960
I think we spoke at this one other episode too, because a lot of validators even moving

384
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:11,280
away from regular default pruning, because we want to get into, we want to be much more

385
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,960
responsive with things like that, and so we might run another node that's not a validator,

386
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,200
but I want to keep the same pruning settings and other types of things.

387
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:25,320
So I think generally having terabytes or hundreds of large scale terabytes of data laying around

388
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:26,320
is rough.

389
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:31,000
And not to mention that just that database is large, which means it's thrashing a lot

390
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,000
and it takes forever to back up and it takes a while.

391
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,680
So I don't know my answer in this chat, which people are listening, my answer was around

392
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,720
the idea that maybe we've had a few different chain forks and things like that where maybe

393
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,360
at some point a new genesis gets cut and that original history gets squashed and we start

394
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:52,120
over, and so we maybe do something like that.

395
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:53,800
But I think it's an issue, right?

396
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:59,120
It's something that's going to turn to a bigger problem depending on the chain and the amount

397
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:00,360
of data that's being stored.

398
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:06,320
And I think there's also an interesting thing that we've been talking about in terms of

399
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:11,600
general core development, I suppose, which is that we are, especially because of the

400
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:18,720
attack we suffered, we've completely changed our releases process and how that works.

401
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,040
And we work, if anything, much closer than we did before.

402
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:27,600
We already work pretty closely with the Confia guys and Cosmosm, but we work even more closely

403
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,280
with them than we did before.

404
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:35,360
And an interesting corollary of that is that the way we do upgrades has radically changed.

405
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:40,200
And I think other chains will probably also do it differently.

406
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:45,720
And what that does do, though, is make it much more difficult for people to sink from

407
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:46,720
genesis.

408
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:55,280
And if you can't sink from genesis, that's potentially quite problematic for actually

409
00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:01,840
having that trust and faith in the chain because it's like a core turn of decentralization,

410
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:02,840
isn't it?

411
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,880
So you sink the chain from genesis and arrive in the set and have floating power should you

412
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,960
be staked, right?

413
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,240
Yeah.

414
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,160
But do you consider genesis block one?

415
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,800
Well, that's another question, isn't it?

416
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,160
Because there's obviously a whole bunch of chains that did the early upgrades, actually,

417
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:25,200
where you do just move, you essentially create a new chain, like Terra Columbus 5, right?

418
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,200
Yeah.

419
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:27,200
Yeah, I think Adam's gone through those.

420
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,880
We did obviously have most, right?

421
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,640
And those types of things, right?

422
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:36,120
So those are, I mean, they're new genesis file, but they're not starting at block one.

423
00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:40,800
And I don't even know, can you, like, in those early Adam things, can you find, are there

424
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,080
nodes out there that you could start from, she'll see, might know this.

425
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,120
Are there nodes that you can start from actually block one and then sink all the way to the

426
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:50,640
point where it forked and everything?

427
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:51,640
Yeah.

428
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,200
So there's not a lot of point in doing that, but you can absolutely do that.

429
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:01,920
So like, you can't on one computer, like systematically go from Cosmos 1 and go forward

430
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,440
to Cosmos 2 and then load from there, load to there.

431
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,160
Only thing you do with those previous sets now is you'll generally find an archive node

432
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:14,840
of Cosmos 1, Cosmos 2, Cosmos 3, and then you can sink from the start of Cosmos 4 onward.

433
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,280
So you could prove, you could go back and re-prove the history to show that where we

434
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,720
are is where we should be, if you had to.

435
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,240
But at some point, you're stopping a node, you're doing some math to figure out if it's

436
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,320
exactly the same as the genesis for the next chain.

437
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,320
Yeah.

438
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,160
So there would be a lot of chaos to it, but strictly speaking, it is possible.

439
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,160
Jake has joined us.

440
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,160
Yo, what's up, guys?

441
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,160
What's happening?

442
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,160
A lot of things are happening.

443
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,920
Actually, a lot of good things.

444
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:42,920
I'm pretty stoked.

445
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:43,920
How are you guys?

446
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:44,920
Really good.

447
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,920
So you guys are in Prague together?

448
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,880
Yeah, we're in Prague.

449
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:52,880
It's been great.

450
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,160
Actually, the conference was really exciting and got to chat with so many great people,

451
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,720
many terror teams as well, too.

452
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,480
So I haven't been hearing your conversation.

453
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,320
I've only been hearing Alex's side of it.

454
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,760
So kind of, yeah, I'll just sit and listen for a bit.

455
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,240
I'll just work.

456
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,120
Alex, who's Alex?

457
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:15,120
I only know him.

458
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:16,120
Oh, yeah.

459
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:17,120
I know that.

460
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:18,120
It's Alex.

461
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,120
Oh, I just talked to him.

462
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:26,600
Sorry, I already got docs during the whale drama, so anybody that needs to know that can

463
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,120
already work it out.

464
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:34,120
Well, now it's also on YouTube, so fantastic.

465
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:38,320
So we were actually talking about the reason I grabbed you across the room was that we

466
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:44,040
were kind of curious about how the caching layer works in Stargaze because, again, it's

467
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,440
something as infrastructure providers that we're pretty interested in in terms of just

468
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:53,520
how much needs to go on chain or how much should go on chain and how much is off chain,

469
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:54,520
right?

470
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,400
And especially in the NFT case, I think this is something that's come up over and over

471
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,560
again as criticism of NFTs from people who are outside of the space and technical.

472
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,880
And in some cases, people who are outside the case and space and non-technical.

473
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:15,040
Like I saw a very tepid tweet the other day about like, blockchain is a slow, append-only

474
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,800
database and I was like, well, Apache Kafka is a fast, append-only database.

475
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:19,800
What's your point?

476
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,200
You know, CERN use one because it's fast and append-only.

477
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:30,640
We use this other one that's slow and append-only because it has an immutability property.

478
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,640
You know?

479
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:32,640
Yeah.

480
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,120
So you want to hear some really cool stuff.

481
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:39,200
There is no caching layer for Stargaze.

482
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,880
It's all on the front end.

483
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,400
Like we just use react query and don't fetch the same thing more than once.

484
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,640
It's actually query and directly off chain.

485
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:55,040
Now for the images, we have all the images on IPFS.

486
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,600
So we're not actually storing a full NFT on chain.

487
00:26:58,600 --> 00:26:59,840
That would not be sustainable.

488
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,040
That would be very expensive.

489
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,160
That would not be fun to run nodes for.

490
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,880
So we do store the IPFS hash and we do use some caching for the images.

491
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:15,040
It's actually really helpful to have those images in a well-placed CDN.

492
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,880
So currently for that, we're using Pinata.

493
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:28,040
Pinata actually has a CDN service for IPFS, which is really useful.

494
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,480
But they're not the only ones these days.

495
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,680
So actually Cloud Flare has entered the game.

496
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:38,440
So you can actually use Cloud Flare for IPFS assets as well.

497
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:44,480
I think as the whole ecosystem evolves and things like IPFS and decentralized kind of

498
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:50,320
file protocols really get adoption, I think we might even see some more distributed versions

499
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,160
of caching of these files.

500
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,920
I see no reason why in two or three years we might not have a Cosmos chain that we're

501
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,680
validators also pin these files and serve them up.

502
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,000
But obviously something like that would require a lot of work and thought.

503
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,080
So yeah, there's actually no caching.

504
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:13,560
It's all direct RPC queries to the Cosmos contracts and it's actually amazing how performant

505
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,560
that is.

506
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:17,560
And yeah.

507
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:26,080
Can you talk a little bit about, sorry for interrupting, if you want to keep going.

508
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:33,120
I mean, we are actually adding an indexer purely because people want things like search.

509
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:38,760
And searches actually, while the Cosmos and smart contracts are very, very powerful and

510
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:45,840
you can do these amazing queries that are actually surprisingly performant.

511
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,960
Search is still hard in Cosmos.

512
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,160
I've not seen a really good Cosmos and search implementation.

513
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:58,560
And so if you want to, for example, figure out query like an NFT by like a trait, you

514
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:04,720
want to get all the really sad looking bad kids, then it's start skating.

515
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,240
Then you start needing to have an indexer.

516
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,400
Now, we could maybe index all this data on chain, but then it's more data stored on chain

517
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,200
and there's tradeoffs to all these things.

518
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,200
But we are looking to switch to an indexer mostly for search with doubt.

519
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,480
Now, we also launched a search.

520
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:27,120
That was another, you know, application that is surprisingly entirely direct on chain queries.

521
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,240
And that kind of makes it as decentralized as possible.

522
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,560
There's no third party interface.

523
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,240
You just need an RPC node and that's it.

524
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,000
But we are adding an indexer.

525
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,760
We recently launched a search feature that allows you to search for a DAO by name and

526
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,560
that uses an indexer.

527
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,800
So yeah, that's that.

528
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:51,200
And when you say, when you say indexer in this situation, and this is super weird because

529
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,080
we're actually about like three feet from one another here.

530
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,280
We're kind of like stiff past the room.

531
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:02,720
But when you say indexer, that is that what kind of technology are we talking in the back?

532
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,400
And so I think this is also an interesting question, which we'll come back to in a little

533
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,960
bit when we talk about some of the infrastructure questions we've been getting from terror teams

534
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:15,600
who are looking to move over, which is like, you know, for me, I hear like the, especially

535
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,960
with the marketplace launch, which has been very, very successful.

536
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,000
And we saw, is it cool to say what we saw?

537
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,160
We saw Josh Lee just buying a load of bad kids.

538
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:33,080
And there were a bunch of people really, really stoked on the marketplace in Prague.

539
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,160
And that launch seems to go really well.

540
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,160
It was cool.

541
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,520
But one of the things that I guess we were also talking about, which you've touched on

542
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,560
there is that there are quite often particular traits and things that you want to look for.

543
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,920
And it roughly conforms to like fasted search, right?

544
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,400
Whereas I think a lot of the like, certainly the BD Juno type stuff, which no relation

545
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,200
to the Juno project, the chain, it just happens to be called the same thing, which is the

546
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:02,600
index of behind this used by a lot of what's it called big dipper and stuff, those indexes,

547
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,440
they actually post grass into the hood.

548
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,600
But I guess what's interesting here is that in a consumer use case, particularly for things

549
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,840
like NFTs, particularly for like Dowdow, search is really the big thing, right?

550
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,120
And so that's actually like a completely different technology stack.

551
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,600
You'd be traditionally, I suppose, thinking of something like Elasticsearch, which is,

552
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:26,640
you can do a fasted search natively, but it's a bit more lossy as a like, if the immutability

553
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,360
property of a blockchain is about as strong as it can get in database technology, then

554
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:35,280
the immutability and completeness of data on something like a search cluster and like

555
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:43,120
Elasticsearch is about as unguaranteed as it can be.

556
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:49,280
So I suppose because we're largely infrastructure people in the school, what does the future

557
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,240
of that kind of indexing technology look like?

558
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,000
And again, Meow, if you want to talk a bit about how you're approaching that problem

559
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,360
with Dowdow, because I guess you're building an index of Cosmos, right?

560
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:06,400
Well, Zeke, who's incredibly talented, built a really quick and dirty indexer for Dowdow.

561
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,920
But there's actually a lot of indexer efforts that are happening in Cosmos, and I think

562
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,400
it's probably good to speak to some of those, and then I think it's good to talk about maybe

563
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,920
where we want everything to go.

564
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:23,200
So we've actually funded through the Juno Core Dev Fund, a couple of teams to work on

565
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,200
indexers.

566
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,960
So there's two different implementations, actually.

567
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,960
There's one in Go and one in Rust.

568
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:35,840
And both are designed to be like extensible kind of better versions of BD Juno and specific

569
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,280
for Cosmos.

570
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,880
Each contract is going to be different.

571
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:47,040
So for example, when you index a Dow contract, sure, I want to be able to search by names.

572
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,040
That's one use case.

573
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,080
But I also want to be able to create an inbox for every Dow I'm in.

574
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,160
I want to see all the open proposals, almost like notifications.

575
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,440
If a new proposal, what if I want to build a notification service?

576
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,000
So these are kind of use cases where we'd have to build something that's really custom

577
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,360
to these kinds of contracts.

578
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,960
Yeah, shout out Zeke.

579
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,560
So we are funding like two efforts on the indexer.

580
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,960
And actually because of Terra, there's actually a third one that's kind of jumped in the frame.

581
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,480
We've been talking with a team, they're called Subgraph.

582
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,040
And they've been actually pretty popular with various Terra projects.

583
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:31,200
And they do indexing and they also expose the GraphQL API, which is really cool.

584
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,480
So really, really excited to be talking with them.

585
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,920
And I think we're going to figure something out there.

586
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,320
I think indexers are the kind of thing where I think it's actually kind of great to have

587
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,440
multiple implementations in the ecosystem.

588
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,440
There's a fourth effort.

589
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,200
So Figment has been working with the Graph as in the Graph Protocol.

590
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,840
And they're supposedly working on a Cosmos integration.

591
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:58,440
I'm not sure how far that is, but that's another thing to be keeping an eye out for.

592
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:04,160
But I'm particularly very excited about Subgraph coming to Juno and other Cosmos and Chains.

593
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,960
I think that'll be really, really great for this ecosystem.

594
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:15,000
In terms of long term, I do think it's kind of funny because you already have this database

595
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,880
on our validator nodes.

596
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,120
And maybe it's RocksDB or maybe you're using LevelDB or I'm not sure what the sampling is

597
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,920
of what database you guys are using with your nodes.

598
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,920
But we already kind of do have a database.

599
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:34,960
And there has been some work by Tendermint as well to add a Postgres kind of sync functionality

600
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,000
to the Cosmos SDK.

601
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,160
And I think I kind of feel like there's a lot of potential there.

602
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:41,360
We've already got this data.

603
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,480
Can we figure out a better way to shove it into Elasticsearch?

604
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:53,280
Don't have a ton of answers there, but if anyone in the chat or listening is interested

605
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,480
in working on these kinds of problems or has ideas for how we might go about improving

606
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,760
the situation, my DMs are open on Twitter.

607
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,840
So I don't reach out.

608
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:14,120
And I guess that's a very solved problem from stream processing type stuff, isn't it?

609
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:22,040
Because large-scale streaming systems like Apache Kafka and as well, large serverless

610
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,560
implementations using the cloud provider of your choice.

611
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:32,960
AWS, but other providers are available or GCP, whatever.

612
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,240
They also have that same model like the kind of sync and source type stuff is like really,

613
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,880
really well established as an ETL mechanism.

614
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:46,480
ETL being for those that didn't work in data processing for too much of their career, extract

615
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:53,320
transform load, which simply just means shoving data around from one place to another.

616
00:35:53,320 --> 00:36:00,120
So given that we are kind of a slow stream system, we're right ahead log from a database,

617
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,320
basically abstracted into a distributed ledger.

618
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,360
There's probably a lot of the techniques of streaming data systems that are actually applicable

619
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:12,520
in our case and could be applied to make these systems better.

620
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,960
The question is whether all validators should have to also provide that infrastructure or

621
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:22,560
work with it or to what extent, because otherwise it comes back to the archive, no problem,

622
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:28,040
which is what happens when nobody decides to run that sync because of their market?

623
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,920
Yeah, so I've got some thoughts on this.

624
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,760
I'd love to hear what you guys think about this.

625
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,880
And I don't know how many people saw my talk in Prague, but it was about DAOs.

626
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:43,560
And I really think that we need to fund these efforts and we more importantly need a group.

627
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,560
We need an infrastructure DAO.

628
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,000
We need a DAO that is specifically going to go out and fund the infrastructure.

629
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,440
Right now, people have been doing it on this ad hoc basis.

630
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,760
I'm going to say DAO a lot now.

631
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:57,760
Yeah, okay.

632
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,880
We've been doing this on a very ad hoc basis where people run relayers and then Core One

633
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,760
gets back to you a month later to reimburse you.

634
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,880
And you've already basically, it's not very efficient.

635
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,200
It's very slow.

636
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,240
Same thing with the RPC nodes.

637
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:15,200
I think we can do better.

638
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:21,000
And so we need it effectively like a sub DAO or a small committee or team could be some

639
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,120
of the people on this call, some validators.

640
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,840
And basically, they would get a budget from either the Dev Fund or likely the Dev Fund.

641
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,840
I think this makes sense to come from the Dev Fund.

642
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,960
It could be a community pool depending for other chains, for example.

643
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:42,200
And they would get a budget to go out and fund things like RPC nodes and relayers and

644
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:43,200
archive nodes.

645
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,840
Because those are public goods that we all need and it costs money to host that stuff.

646
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,360
And so these are public goods that we all need to really run and build applications on the

647
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:53,360
chain.

648
00:37:53,360 --> 00:38:04,600
And we need a group that is focused on basically funding those kind of efforts and making sure

649
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,760
that the people that are running them are doing a great job.

650
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:14,760
I also think that there's a lot of potential to potentially, I think RPC nodes can kind

651
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,360
of be a single point of failure.

652
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,680
And that like, I'll give you an example.

653
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:28,320
I love the Kepler team a lot, but they run single RPC nodes for the wallets.

654
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,520
And Stargaze launched.

655
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:37,640
We had this big freakout session because there was a time when we upgraded the chain.

656
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,280
And Kepler did an upgrade and they were asleep in Korea.

657
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,080
And then the wallet was broken.

658
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,440
And who did everyone blame?

659
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:45,920
They blamed us.

660
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,320
And they blamed the chains broken.

661
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,560
I can't see my balance.

662
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:50,560
The chains broken.

663
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,320
I can't do any transactions.

664
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:58,200
And there's no, how do we like build a nice fallback system?

665
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,760
Like, should we be thinking about deploying, like using interchange accounts and deploying

666
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,240
load balancers on a cost?

667
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:09,640
And like teaming up as validators to like have some redundancy, like a lot of the apps

668
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,000
on Juno, and this is actually not unique to Juno.

669
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,720
This is actually very true in the larger crypto ecosystem is one of the, it's a valid

670
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:16,800
criticism of it.

671
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,760
So even an Ethereum like MetaMask basically uses one default RPC node for all of the

672
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:29,640
Ethereum, like there is, you know, in, in Cosmos or Terra, you know, DApps typically

673
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,360
use just one RPC node without no fallback.

674
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,760
So I think there's a lot to think about here.

675
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,240
But anyway, let's back up infrastructure now.

676
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:39,120
What are you guys' thoughts?

677
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:43,200
Yay, nay, you have another idea?

678
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,840
No, I, I totally agree.

679
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,720
Because it kind of seems like it's, it's very sporadic.

680
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:53,160
And then some teams are very open around that, like being, getting involved in Sargaze,

681
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,320
but other teams are pretty closed around that.

682
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,760
Or they want to find a way to be able to use foundation delegations, quote unquote, to be

683
00:39:58,760 --> 00:39:59,760
able to drive that.

684
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,800
And then communication around there and how well that is performed, everything else is

685
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:03,800
really challenging.

686
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,720
The other piece of that is also, like I think Cloudflare becomes a single, also a single

687
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:15,400
point of failure in here because it really is, in my eyes, the only somewhat affordable

688
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:21,480
global distribution network that really works for, for what we use, like for what we use

689
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:22,480
it for here.

690
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,800
If I want to have a single, you know, single RPC address that has, that has global distribution

691
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,280
based on location and things like that.

692
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,720
If you start getting AWS and Akamai and other types of things, it gets really, really, really

693
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:35,160
expensive and really prohibitive.

694
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,600
So that means everybody goes to Cloudflare because it's pretty, you know, so that turns

695
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:39,600
into it.

696
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,280
So if there's a Cloudflare outage, same type of thing happens.

697
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,560
So it would be, it'd be nice to think about this one level up and that could be a service

698
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:50,160
that could be delivered by an infrastructure Dow, something similar to that that other

699
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:56,160
chains could use or be able to provide that as a service that has a much more, you know,

700
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,960
a much more fall tolerant, not saying Cloudflare is not fall tolerant.

701
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,840
I'm sure, I'm sure it's ridiculously fall tolerant, but it's still one provider, right?

702
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,920
So I think that idea would be, it would be pretty interesting to figure out how that

703
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:12,920
would work and be incentivized and something that would be fair and, and clearly defined

704
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,880
because I think sometimes, you know, we've talked about this with Noel a bunch of times

705
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,800
around foundation delegations, but that's really different across different chains and

706
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,840
what they value and not finding some way to, to turn that into something that could be

707
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,320
communicated and built would be pretty interesting.

708
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,720
What do you guys think?

709
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:30,720
Joel Schutze.

710
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:35,720
I mean, I also threw in there that I think as far as like an infrastructure Dow goes,

711
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:39,600
a lot of the time these conversations revolve around like, well, how much is the server

712
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:40,600
cost?

713
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,120
It costs $106 a month.

714
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:43,120
Okay.

715
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,400
And then you'll throw another hard drive in there.

716
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:45,400
That's $45.

717
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,920
So I want $150 a month for, for managing this.

718
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:48,920
Right.

719
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,560
But obviously we have like setting it up, managing it.

720
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,560
That's, let's say, let's say it's just two hours a week.

721
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,680
In that, in that first week, we've already basically blew our budget because each one

722
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,000
of us is probably worth more than $100 an hour.

723
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,000
Right.

724
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,440
And that conversation, I think really, really comes up as to like what these Dow's or these

725
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,240
communities are worth is how much manpower, how much expertise is going into it.

726
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:15,200
It's so much more than just the server costs that are, that are being involved.

727
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,200
Yeah.

728
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:17,200
I think exactly.

729
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,480
And, you know, I think that's why, you know, does it mean to people at the end of the day,

730
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,480
you know, it's like, uh, and I think that it's a,

731
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,360
it's important to keep in mind that that should be built into the cost, you know, because

732
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:32,320
it does take a lot of time for, for like people are doing a lot of work.

733
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,240
It's not just the cost, the end, you know, of the running the hardware.

734
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:38,080
It is a lot of work to do this.

735
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:43,400
And, you know, there should be, you know, maybe index or Dow gets a certain budget,

736
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,000
you know, and then they can make delegations with that or, you know, they can make direct

737
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,120
payments, you know, people.

738
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,120
I think we should just start out and kind of just start experimenting with things, especially

739
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,120
on Juno.

740
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,440
And, you know, we can, it probably won't be perfect right away, but, you know, trial

741
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,680
and error and evolution is like a lot of times a good way to build things.

742
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:06,680
Yeah.

743
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,200
Um, and, but yeah, you're completely right about, about the, about the people we have.

744
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,040
That has to be taken into account with the costs.

745
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,720
So one thing I'll also throw in there is that a secret network actually used to have an

746
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:22,400
infrastructure committee and their responsibilities and did include basically just that not relays

747
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,240
because relaying wasn't a thing then.

748
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:27,600
Um, and in the sense that secret didn't have IBC yet.

749
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,400
Um, but they did take into account, you know, I'm probably going to spend 10 hours a week

750
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,720
on this so that there's this, you know, my salary.

751
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:37,640
I'm going to host these API's for the community to use.

752
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,840
I'm going to make sure this documentation is up to date.

753
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,960
I'm going to direct the test net on these sorts of like scaling responsibilities are

754
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,840
different things they focused on, um, and would certainly it'd be worthwhile considering

755
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,800
them as well with, and then June.

756
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:52,800
Yeah, totally.

757
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,680
Uh, did they make decisions on chain or do you know how they ran theirs or?

758
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,440
So the infrastructure community doesn't really exist right now, but yeah, it used to be a

759
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,960
community fund proposal to, to fund them.

760
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:05,960
Yeah.

761
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,160
I'm kind of thinking that we should run obviously I'm biased here and so you can push back on

762
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:16,560
this, but I do kind of think we should, um, run this on a doubt out out, um, just because

763
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:24,320
it allows for kind of a maybe a smaller group of experts and, uh, also kind of allows for

764
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:25,320
transparency.

765
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:30,320
Everyone can see that what proposals, what people are asking for, you know, and then,

766
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,920
then it's still public and you know, the people can still use Cosmos governance if they're

767
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,920
not satisfied with, you know, how infrastructure infrastructure, what infrastructure that was

768
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,920
doing, you know, maybe they'll propose like, um, you know, what kind of infrastructure

769
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,000
it was like, oh, some people should be removed from infrastructure doubt.

770
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,480
We can even create really interesting arrangements where we like, um, you know, the main governance

771
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:54,040
module will have some control over infrastructure doubt, maybe even controlling who gets voted

772
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,360
onto it, um, which could be a really interesting thing.

773
00:44:58,360 --> 00:44:59,880
Yeah.

774
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:03,920
I mean, what do you think, Joe?

775
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:09,320
I want to know what Jaby thinks of this, but also I think we've, we've also, I've, I've

776
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,560
talked in the past and probably been a bit boring about the fact that I think it would

777
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:19,120
be interesting to experiment more broadly with, um, the idea that validator sets a semi-fungible

778
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,800
like the validator themselves get dynamically removed from the set, um, based on performance.

779
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:29,080
And I know that there are mechanisms in evolving proof of state systems to do this, but I think

780
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,880
that's also an interesting use case for, you know, if we go back to what we were talking

781
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,480
about maybe 10, 15 minutes ago about what is the evolving responsibility of a validator

782
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,600
in the case that we are wanting additional provision of things like indexes, sources,

783
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:48,160
sinks, maybe RPCs, whatever, um, you know, the long-term vision of an infrastructure

784
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:54,960
doubt, if you generalize the problem to, um, it's tooling that isn't limited to one chain

785
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,200
is maybe this is actually a cosmos zone of its own.

786
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:05,720
And in that situation, making, um, make, being able to bring people in and out of the doubt

787
00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:11,040
via governance or via another mechanism is actually the same problem as a fungible validator

788
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:16,160
set, which is essentially deciding who is a validator based on performance past and

789
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:17,160
past the future.

790
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:22,160
So just an idea, throwing that out there, um, is this in fact a cosmos?

791
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,800
Like is the long-term vision for an infrastructure doubt that this is just a cosmos zone because

792
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,520
after all zones of cosmos are, are doubts.

793
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,720
I just got a little bit of a case of the jackhands there.

794
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:33,720
Did you see that?

795
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:44,320
Yeah, I mean, I think that, um, certainly in this bootstrapping phase, it makes sense

796
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:51,760
to have a, a funded effort to provide these services for, you know, necessary growth.

797
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:59,280
But at some point, you know, app providers themselves will be incentivized to, you know,

798
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:04,600
buy the endpoints on their own, but they have to get through that bootstrapping phase where

799
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:11,800
they can actually realize that is the next step for them to evolve to.

800
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,880
Because no matter what we can do as an infrastructure doubt will always be sort of lagging behind

801
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:25,440
the growth of some app or some, uh, use case and that the folks that are generating that

802
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,640
use case, they'll have the, you know, sort of the leading indicator about what they need

803
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:30,640
and where they need to go.

804
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:36,760
And so they can build, uh, the right amount of scalability towards, you know, Asia Pacific

805
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,120
or, or EU or, or what, what have you.

806
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:46,800
Um, so I think that, you know, it's a, a necessary but transient type thing that we need.

807
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:55,080
Um, certainly with MetaMask, you know, Infura is providing the bulk of their RPC requests

808
00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:00,880
so it might very well be that it, you know, sort of hones in on a specific use case, but

809
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:07,000
uh, I think that at some point we will see the apps sort of, you know, almost like what

810
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:14,680
DowDow does right now with its, uh, its front end, um, continue to iterate on that and,

811
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:15,680
and provide more.

812
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:21,520
I think actually talking about DApps actually kind of brings up an interesting point is I

813
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,280
think we're right now, we're kind of in this stage of we should just be running public

814
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:32,600
RPC nodes, but we cannot defy deny the fact that like JunoSwap uses like a lot of like

815
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:33,600
RPC calls.

816
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:38,840
Uh, and some actually JunoSwap is pretty good now because it's been, we've been fine tuning

817
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:44,720
it cause a ton of RPC calls during like, uh, something like the raw launch can lead to

818
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:46,720
some down time.

819
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:52,960
Um, but there are, you know, poorly written front front end apps, like for example, uh,

820
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:59,200
Fortis, uh, which was making like a ton of RPC calls, kind of for no reason, like all

821
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:00,200
the time.

822
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:06,360
Um, and eventually we have to move past the stage where we're just like, if there's one

823
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:12,000
DApp, for example, and they're just using a ton of RPC resources, like we need to definitely

824
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:18,080
think about pathways for them to either figure out how to run it themselves or, uh, potentially

825
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,000
like find a way for them to contribute back.

826
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:25,160
Uh, lol, at that comment about Fortis.

827
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:33,400
Um, uh, you know, maybe at some point done, done the road, it makes sense for projects

828
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,520
to like pay for, pay for infrastructure.

829
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,800
I'm not sure exactly what that would look like.

830
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:44,680
So again, taking this back a little bit to why this went on the topics for discussion

831
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:45,680
this show.

832
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:51,600
Um, we've obviously been talking to, um, Meow has the, everybody involved in dev, Juno

833
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,520
has been talking, has had people get in touch with them about the terror situation about

834
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,600
migrating to Juno about how do we do it?

835
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,600
Obviously prop 23 has gone on chain and is likely to pass at this point.

836
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:07,400
So there is a coordinated effort to, um, bring projects into Juno and obviously other networks

837
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,920
have been doing the same thing for, um, projects that are closer to their use case.

838
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:16,200
Like obviously, uh, I know Stargaze are obviously talking to people and secret, obviously for

839
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,040
privacy focused stuff or obviously talking to projects and terror.

840
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:24,120
And this is, this is continuing that some projects are going to presumably stay on terror

841
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,640
and go with the relaunch and other projects will find a chain that suits better, maybe

842
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:34,560
where they see themselves now and in the future and they will, um, move over to that.

843
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:39,040
So as somebody who's very much in the cosmosm and also maybe in, I'm a little bit in the

844
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:44,280
DevRel space because we were here so early in terms of launching, uh, launching Dapps

845
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,720
and Juno and also being maybe one of the first developers hanging around discord when people

846
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:51,360
were launched, were joining like last year and whatnot.

847
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:56,240
We get a lot of these sort of questions from people like, Oh, somebody's asked me, um,

848
00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:59,360
this question about the developer experience in Juno, what do you think I should respond

849
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,120
to them with and something like that.

850
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,760
And the reason that question originally went in the chat about, you know, infrastructure

851
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:09,280
and whatnot is because somebody is specifically, um, shout out to, I think it was tricky crypto

852
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:14,640
is their handle, was specifically had this question that they had seen about, um, developer

853
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:20,200
teams who are trying to move over to Juno or and other cosmos projects to be clear.

854
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:25,880
Um, and they were asking about the tooling that they found within the ecosystem versus

855
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:31,520
Terrax, Terra has a much more ergonomic development developer experience.

856
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:36,000
And the comment that had been thrown my way was that they felt that the teams waiting

857
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:43,160
to see if, uh, Terra relaunched, um, were, were kind of essentially betting on the ergonomics

858
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,080
of the, of the system.

859
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,520
And the comment I've seen was, you know, it's two years ahead of where the rest of the cosmos

860
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:50,520
is.

861
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,600
And so like, I'm kind of, I could see me out immediately reacting to that.

862
00:51:54,600 --> 00:52:00,760
Um, I obviously, I think that comment is like, nah, that's kind of hyperbole.

863
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,120
Yeah, it's a complete hyperbole.

864
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:09,160
And, uh, you know, we do have funds for people that want to help build us up to like a similar

865
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:15,360
level of tooling and a similar level of tooling for all of cosmism, not just Terra.

866
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,720
Uh, and I think we can get there in six months.

867
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:19,720
I really do.

868
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:21,760
I also don't think it's that much better.

869
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,280
People just hate change and like, you know, it's okay.

870
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,400
Yeah, there's a UI for you to upload your cosmals and binary, but you still have to

871
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,360
like, you know, compile it on the command line.

872
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,600
And it's pretty easy to do that in Russ.

873
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:43,040
Um, uh, you know, they have some Node.js tools that will compile it for you, but you're still

874
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:44,360
entering it on the command line.

875
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:50,200
You're just using a Node.js, Node.js tool and you're writing npm rather than cargo.

876
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:55,160
Um, but I do think we can make a lot of improvements there and like catch up really quickly.

877
00:52:55,160 --> 00:53:01,320
And again, my plea to all of you watchers and listeners of this podcast is if you have

878
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,840
ideas for things that you've seen in Terra that you would like to bring to the wider

879
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:10,440
cosmolism ecosystem, hit me up.

880
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:15,520
And as an aside as well, just on the, um, simple upload interface, we have cosmolism

881
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:16,520
tools.

882
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,520
We have Juno Blueprints.

883
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:26,080
So Jan's Alex and Disverse did Juno Blueprints and AS we were from Howl, um, did, uh, cosmolism

884
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,760
tools, both which are very useful for doing that sort of stuff.

885
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:33,480
So I think also it's probably, there's a little element of it being just pure unfamiliarity

886
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:34,920
with like, what is there?

887
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:39,480
Because you, it's not like every single one of these projects isn't just listed on like,

888
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,880
this is the approved her a way of doing things.

889
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,760
They're on the Juno ecosystem page.

890
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:48,280
If you are looking at secrets tooling, then you might not necessarily know about cosmolism

891
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:49,280
tools.

892
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:53,040
And of course, like equally, I might not be aware of similar tools exist on secret because

893
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,600
we are all of these different communities.

894
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,440
And sometimes the wheel has been reinvented, right?

895
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,680
But at the same time we may be less, I think this is something Jabby was talking about

896
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,800
a little bit before we were just like having a chat before the show about whether or not

897
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,720
this represents like, writtenness, like sometimes reinventing the wheel can be a sign that there's

898
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:15,920
just lots of people working on the same ideas and bootstrapping their own dev tooling.

899
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,160
And you know, Jabby is also prime example of this because Jabby builds a lot of dev tools

900
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,840
and shares them with other people, even if they're just crazy bash scripts, you know,

901
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:30,280
a little bit like block painting and co in that regard, like, like, kind of, what's the

902
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,840
word I'm looking for dog food in, which is appropriate given, you know,

903
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:42,560
I don't understand what sort of dog food what I what I like.

904
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,360
Yeah, certainly.

905
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,520
Is that a pop bounce reference?

906
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:50,600
I think it was.

907
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:51,600
I think it was.

908
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:53,120
I will say I don't know.

909
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,120
I don't know.

910
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,320
I don't know who it could be referencing.

911
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:01,320
A lot of this fragmentation is because secret has a fork of cosmosom.

912
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,680
There's really actually even more outdated than the terror stuff, the terror stuff could

913
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,200
actually be quite easy.

914
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,960
Terror is also a fork of cosmosom.

915
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,040
And it's closer.

916
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:16,280
I think one of the really cool things about Juno is that we're using like the pure non

917
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:23,240
forked 1.0 cosmosom, you know, and that means that the tools we built for Juno are usable

918
00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:25,520
by any cosmosom chain.

919
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,320
And I think that that's really what we need going forward.

920
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:33,200
And that will lead to a lot more fragment, lot less fragmentation and a lot better developer

921
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,200
experience for cosmosom as a whole.

922
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:42,400
Like, yes, yes, Callum, let's go.

923
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:43,840
So I want to point that out.

924
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,320
And yeah, we probably have a little bit of catch up to do.

925
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,640
I think much of the catch up is on education and documentation.

926
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,080
Like people need to learn that these tools exist.

927
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:57,760
And, you know, in terms of future parody, there is a lot of work that's being done.

928
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:03,480
So I'm working with my friend Dan, and we're collaborating with Osmosis.

929
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:10,680
Yeah, Juno Osmosis collab on like, and with Confio on building out like better front end

930
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:17,000
like tools for cosmosom, where you just literally write your contract, you generate a schema,

931
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:22,240
and it will generate all the typescript types you need, a lot of like standard front end

932
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:25,800
stuff, it'll even generate like boilerplate for React query.

933
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:30,800
So you can just import like the hook you want to use for a particular query, or if you want

934
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,440
to make a transaction, you've got this nice little helper class with auto completion.

935
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:41,760
We're working on things like kind of scaffolding libraries and like UI component libraries.

936
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,000
For example, there's Juno blocks, something else that just came out.

937
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,920
And if you've not heard about it is check out telescope.

938
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,720
Telescope's really cool.

939
00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:57,960
And so there's a lot of effort that is happening in the cosmosom dev tool space.

940
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:04,040
And because for the first time really, because previously we had these forks of secret and

941
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:09,440
Terra, and then like kind of the mainline cosmosom, there's convergence around the mainline

942
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:10,440
cosmosom.

943
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:15,760
We have three strong change of lease, and more on the way, you know, you've got Osmosis,

944
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,680
like Juno and Stargaze and many others.

945
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:24,360
And so I think now that we're kind of on like a stable cosmosom version, we're going to

946
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:30,320
start seeing really the tooling ecosystem catch up and I think even surpass what Terra

947
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:31,320
had.

948
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,480
But there's still lots of you on the education front.

949
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:35,480
Yeah.

950
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,480
We happen to have a, what's it, awesome Juno.

951
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,680
You know, there's normally some awesome cosmos, awesome.

952
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:43,680
Do we have one of those?

953
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,680
I think you see actually be awesome cosmosom.

954
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:51,760
Like let's just do awesome cosmosm and, you know, and we can definitely do awesome Juno

955
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:52,760
to you.

956
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,720
But we need that someone to just go out and make that please.

957
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,800
I will literally send you some bad kids, NFTs and some Juno.

958
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,240
Go, someone go and make it please.

959
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,200
I think Calum is probably in the chat literally doing that right now.

960
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,400
So we were kind of up towards the, to the end of the episode.

961
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,920
So there have been some good questions in the chat and I think you surf or to have at

962
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,040
least one question from a very organized spreadsheet that I think you wanted to bring

963
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:21,040
up.

964
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,880
But I'm going to go ahead and throw up a couple of questions that I've seen in the chat that

965
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:24,880
are good.

966
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,600
I think one of them I was literally about to interrupt you to ask, we literally just

967
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:34,440
got answered by that comment, which is that somebody said have, so back as Roman said,

968
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,160
have you ever thought about building out a knowledge base with some natural groups,

969
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:38,160
et cetera, et cetera.

970
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:39,840
It'd be easier to get across tools and resources available.

971
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,760
I think we've just literally covered that and said, yeah, that would be cool.

972
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,640
It's going to be called awesome Cosmoism and somebody should build it.

973
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:50,560
And then Mia will send you a bad kid.

974
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:51,560
Go build that.

975
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:58,080
Go, go make an awesome Cosmoism page and I'll drop you some bad kids.

976
00:58:58,080 --> 00:58:59,080
Cool.

977
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:05,480
And then there's a question from Adam Burke, which is what infrastructure.

978
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:11,600
So Adam also asked the question earlier we had on indexes, archive nodes, which is a

979
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:12,760
really good question.

980
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:14,880
And we got a wide infrastructure that's not capable of being run on cash.

981
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,040
They want to put it in cash for adoption.

982
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,520
They should pay for their own info via interchain accounts.

983
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:20,520
Now this was something really interesting.

984
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,040
We actually talked with Greg.

985
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,440
If you haven't already seen it, there is a previous game of nodes episode with Greg from

986
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:31,120
a cache where we talk about the idea of like DAOs and autonomous organizations paying for

987
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:35,040
their own infrastructure and the fact that validators and whatnot are now more viable

988
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:39,760
to be run on cash than ever before.

989
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,360
And in addition, I think we've been obviously talking about this infrastructure DAO and it

990
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:48,080
seems like again, these are the same sorts of organizations where if that info DAO long

991
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:53,400
term is it say its own Cosmos zone, it can talk IBC to a cache.

992
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:58,600
If that becomes a public good chain and it's building stuff out, then there's a whole bunch

993
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,520
of stuff that doesn't exist yet because the technology doesn't exist yet, but we're still

994
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,960
relatively early and there's no reason why these things couldn't exist in the future

995
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:10,160
and govern their own infrastructure and whatnot, that would be incredibly exciting.

996
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:11,160
Thank you.

997
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,160
And I think they're going to exist really soon.

998
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:17,560
Interchain accounts on June or going to lend, I think very quickly, we have some actual

999
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,480
working branches with IBC E3.

1000
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,600
It's just about planning the upgrade there.

1001
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,280
And then I've actually been talking with Greg a lot about adding interchange accounts

1002
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:27,760
to a cache.

1003
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:30,880
And I think that that's going to happen in the very near term as well.

1004
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:36,160
So I think we'll finally start having multiple Cosmos zones connected with the latest version

1005
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:43,400
of IBC that supports interchange accounts really soon, like in a month or two.

1006
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:47,680
So you heard here first.

1007
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:54,440
And we've got another question from Garrison Academy, which I assume because there can

1008
01:00:54,440 --> 01:01:00,840
be so many people with the same name that this is only, this is Kevin from Only Validator.

1009
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,960
What are the current index capabilities in June and what would need to be done to accommodate

1010
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,560
incoming Terra projects and have two projects, etc.

1011
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:08,560
Explain somewhat simply.

1012
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:17,320
Well, I mean, honestly, I come from obviously a consulting background and a data background,

1013
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:22,480
but also having run teams and whatnot, especially startups and things where you don't have

1014
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:23,840
loads of resources.

1015
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,840
My motto is I never build, also because I'm an idiot, I actually don't know that much

1016
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,400
about the things I don't know.

1017
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,040
I don't build anything I don't have to, right?

1018
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,760
If I can buy something or pay somebody else to do something, whether they're an expert,

1019
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,200
I will do that preferably.

1020
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:39,960
And I get a lot of shit for running on AWS.

1021
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,680
But this is also what our policies of our data company is, is that I've done bare metal

1022
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,240
in my life and it was great fun.

1023
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:49,480
But I was a younger, more sprightly man who liked waking up at two in the morning with

1024
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,240
a page blaring my ear.

1025
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:58,120
So in answer to your question, Garrison Academy, if that is your real name, I would say these

1026
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:02,840
promising projects like subquery and whatnot that we're talking to have good product already

1027
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:04,720
that is used by people and liked by people.

1028
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,040
And maybe we should be giving them grants to be checking out and running this stuff on

1029
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:09,040
Juno.

1030
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:10,040
It's just my opinion.

1031
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,040
That would be kind of cool.

1032
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:16,760
But in addition, obviously, like Meow is saying, we can obviously be incentivizing people to

1033
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:17,760
build new tooling.

1034
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:22,400
I'm going to shut up and let other people throw an opinion in the ring on this one.

1035
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,240
We are incentivizing people to build other, other towing.

1036
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:31,280
We are funding multiple indexer efforts at the moment and actively talking with Subgraph.

1037
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:32,680
And I think a lot of projects use that.

1038
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:37,640
And if there are other projects that people use on Terra, we'll talk with them as well.

1039
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:42,240
I'm really excited to get something like Subgraph on Juno.

1040
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,040
I think that'd be great.

1041
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,320
And yeah, we'll make it happen.

1042
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,320
Let's do it.

1043
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:50,320
Cool.

1044
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:56,440
You said, did you have another question that you wanted to cover?

1045
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:57,680
No, I don't think so.

1046
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:03,080
The only one I wanted to pull out of the thing was when GamerNodes merge.

1047
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:04,080
That's a good question, right?

1048
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:05,960
We should have a conversation about that at some point.

1049
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,200
That is a good question.

1050
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:13,080
There was some very, very excellent Juno merge at Gateway.

1051
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,720
Are they an Italian dial?

1052
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:20,480
They're like a merge dial.

1053
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,840
Yeah, they're called space merge.

1054
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:29,040
And searching them on Twitter, they are, I think, called space merge dial on Twitter.

1055
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:33,080
And yeah, they had some of the coolest Juno swag I've seen.

1056
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,840
And it was basically just out instantly.

1057
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,480
A lot of people that were very involved in Juno didn't even get any because it was just

1058
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:41,480
gone.

1059
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:51,600
So I guess it means that we need to launch your shit chain now as GamerNodes and then

1060
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:58,040
get that value really pumping and then pay space dial via IBC, right?

1061
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:03,040
Just get IBC and a load of tokens to make a load of hoodies and stuff.

1062
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,440
And then I guess everybody gets a hoodie, right?

1063
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,920
We can just send them, we can just like rug the chain and then use the money to post everybody's

1064
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:10,920
hoodies.

1065
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:14,360
So it's a kind of hoodie based Ponzi scheme for the viewers of this channel.

1066
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:16,360
It's perfect.

1067
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:17,360
Stable clothing.

1068
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,960
Yeah, I mean, it could work.

1069
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:21,960
I'm bullish.

1070
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:28,280
Okay, folks, so let's kind of begin to wrap up there, which means that it's time for what

1071
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:32,040
are you most excited about in the next week?

1072
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:36,200
I obviously last week I was like, I'm super stoked about getting, being able to like actually

1073
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:42,240
work on how again for a little bit and also get that a cash validator up.

1074
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:43,960
And then things got really busy again.

1075
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,880
So I did actually get to write some rust this week, which was sick.

1076
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:49,880
But I didn't get my cash validator up yet.

1077
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:53,400
We didn't we have we've got some of the tooling in place, but we haven't got it up yet.

1078
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,520
So I'm just going to say the same thing as last week, which I'm still really excited

1079
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:57,520
about a cache.

1080
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:03,000
And I'm looking forward to need your cost getting our shit together on that one.

1081
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,000
But should see has actually done that.

1082
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:10,040
I mean, the time it took me to talk about it and talk about our plans should also just

1083
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,280
went and squared it away, right?

1084
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:20,200
Well, I didn't put a validator on there, but I did get my Akash, my setup on Akash is actually

1085
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:21,440
really, really smooth.

1086
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:25,120
I did have to bug the Akash led ex guys for a little bit of help because I never used

1087
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,880
cloud player before.

1088
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:32,320
But it went to a little while and now it's going super smooth.

1089
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,520
And I'm pretty pleased with it.

1090
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,080
Did you end up moving all your DNS over the cloud for as well?

1091
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:38,080
Yeah, I did.

1092
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:39,080
Yeah, yeah.

1093
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:43,200
Previously, I was just using Google domains and doing it basically as simply as possible.

1094
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,200
Yeah.

1095
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:48,960
But I couldn't get like HTTP to HTTPS translated over and I was like, okay, I'm just going

1096
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:54,720
to back out and go to somewhere that I know can support this.

1097
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:56,720
Cool.

1098
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,600
Nice.

1099
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:00,720
So excited about the next week then.

1100
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:01,720
You suffer.

1101
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:02,720
You want to go first?

1102
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:03,720
Yeah.

1103
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:08,320
So I think somewhere, I have a lot of stuff that's kind of in the hopper, but I'm excited

1104
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:14,640
that I'm ready to move past this UST thing, which I think has been for me a real mental

1105
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:15,640
drain.

1106
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:19,640
Like it's just been like this whole quarter has been like kind of sliced at the knees,

1107
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:20,640
right?

1108
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:21,640
You have all this, the whale stuff.

1109
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:23,920
I know I wasn't even involved in the whale stuff the way you guys were, but it's still

1110
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:25,960
mentally draining because it's kind of sitting on your shoulders, right?

1111
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,840
I'm sure it was sitting on your shoulders.

1112
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:31,360
You two guys, you know, a lot, right?

1113
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:35,040
And then from that into UST and everything else, it just seems like kind of taken a lot

1114
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,200
of baseballs to the face, right?

1115
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:41,000
So I'm looking forward to, I see a bit of a turnaround here, even though the market today

1116
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,360
was an absolute disaster and those types of things.

1117
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:50,440
I still think that we'll see a little bit of reprieve in crypto and just in general.

1118
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,200
So I just, I want some green.

1119
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:54,000
I was going to make this logo green and things.

1120
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:55,000
I just need some green.

1121
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,160
Everything's red over here.

1122
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:02,360
So, but I think that is part of what I'm excited about this week, which I'm very positive

1123
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:03,360
in thinking about that.

1124
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:08,960
We talked about this a little bit already, but I think just the first thing I was a little

1125
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,680
bit, frankly, I was a little bit negative in my own viewing around this idea of terror

1126
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,520
projects kind of coming in and the Dow thing and everything else.

1127
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:17,200
I had the real wrong opinion around that.

1128
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:22,680
And I think after I got away from the emotional side of it, I got to the reality side of it,

1129
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,160
which I think is just an excellent opportunity, right?

1130
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:29,560
And Jake, I said that before you joined, but if you think the positive aspect, there's

1131
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,080
so many good things that were going on there that I think can spread out throughout the

1132
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:34,080
cosmos.

1133
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,320
I think these questions about two years behind those things will go away.

1134
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:40,160
And I think that we get back to building and it'll find new homes.

1135
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:44,400
And I think it allows the projects that are here to have more opportunities and new directions

1136
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,920
that can support the tooling that things are coming out there.

1137
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:50,200
I'm sure maybe there's some of the direction that you guys are taking from a Juno perspective

1138
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:54,160
will change based on maybe what projects are coming in and change priorities.

1139
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:56,160
And I think that's just good, right?

1140
01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:00,400
And so I think there's going to be a lot of positive coming out of that.

1141
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,560
So I think that that's what I'm most excited about.

1142
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:09,040
I think this next week is just more announcements and just kind of seeing how much, you know,

1143
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:13,400
there's a lot of people who care really deeply and a lot of incredibly smart people.

1144
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:18,680
And I think the more that good ideas come forward and the synergy start coming together,

1145
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:20,560
good things are just going to happen a lot faster.

1146
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:26,440
So I think that's a positive for today.

1147
01:08:26,440 --> 01:08:28,440
She'll say.

1148
01:08:28,440 --> 01:08:34,640
Yeah, yeah, I told a little bit of updates.

1149
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:36,560
I didn't tell you what I'm looking forward to.

1150
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:41,760
So I got accepted into the entertainment Academy, which is for new developers in the Cosmos

1151
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:42,760
space.

1152
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:44,280
And I'm really excited about that.

1153
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:51,440
I've read through about the first module and I'm about to take the quiz.

1154
01:08:51,440 --> 01:08:52,600
And there's a lot to learn.

1155
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,960
It's six weeks and 60 hours, so it says.

1156
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,400
But with what's in the curriculum, there's no way it's going to be done in 60 hours.

1157
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:00,400
I think it's going to be way longer than that.

1158
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:04,600
But either way, I'm really excited about taking it on.

1159
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:05,600
Nice.

1160
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,600
That's pretty awesome.

1161
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:15,040
And Jaby, do you want to tell us what you're excited about?

1162
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,600
What's the goodest point in the Cosmos doing this week?

1163
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:22,280
I hope he ships at some point.

1164
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,720
But for me, it's all off chain.

1165
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:29,720
My kids are graduating whatever grade they're in.

1166
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:31,440
The elders are graduating high school.

1167
01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:32,440
There's so many.

1168
01:09:32,440 --> 01:09:33,440
I mean, it's gone.

1169
01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:37,400
I just number them like an array, you know, an index of kids of three.

1170
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:41,120
No, not you kids of four.

1171
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,840
I meant three.

1172
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:49,080
And so, you know, that's generally goodness.

1173
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:50,600
Let's see.

1174
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:58,240
There's some upgrades happening like test nets and such.

1175
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:03,880
And so that's exciting to have come down the line, see more features be tested out and

1176
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:04,880
go.

1177
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:14,400
I'm spending a lot of time researching, like at a deep level, to understand IBC, ICS 23,

1178
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:16,720
and the actual underlying vector commitments.

1179
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:24,960
And so I hope to produce a blog post in as soon as possible about explaining it at an

1180
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:29,200
explain like I'm five type level of how these things actually work, how they're establishing

1181
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:39,920
proof and making it more accessible specifically so relayers can reason about what's happening

1182
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:45,800
as these different messages are going back and forth.

1183
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:49,080
And I'm excited about two things.

1184
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:54,280
The first is obviously talking with all the really cool teratabs and like bringing them

1185
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:59,160
over to the wider cosmosm ecosystem and also helping them get the funding they need because

1186
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:05,240
like honestly, some of them kind of got pretty burnt, which is really sad to see for like

1187
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:07,760
such talented and like skilled and awesome people.

1188
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:12,360
So I'm really excited for all those conversations you've got lined up and we're talking with

1189
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:17,520
so many awesome teams and excellent projects that I think will just bring so much value,

1190
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,680
not just to Juno, but like all of the cosmos.

1191
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:22,880
So just completely stoked for that.

1192
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:28,120
And then I'm also really excited to kick off this whole subdiales effort and really launching

1193
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:30,920
like specifically in the context of Juno.

1194
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:36,200
And then I think these patterns will be taken elsewhere in the cosmos and potentially even

1195
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,200
some of them to their own zones.

1196
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:46,320
But yeah, really kicking off like the whole effort around like a core devdow around a infrastructure

1197
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:51,440
dial around a dial that's going to manage hack Juno, like really starting to make it

1198
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:57,720
so that like core one is actually not needed and maybe someday we'll even get rid of it

1199
01:11:57,720 --> 01:11:59,080
when we're ready.

1200
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:04,520
But like, I think it's important to start the experimentation now and so like, you know,

1201
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:08,520
start trying these ideas and like figuring out how we're really going to organize ourselves

1202
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,320
as a decentralized community.

1203
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:15,000
Like we don't have the advantage of being one company where, you know, I'm CEO and like

1204
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:23,800
Schultz and usurfer and Javi and I'm not going to dox you again.

1205
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:37,000
So I'm really excited to start kicking off some of those efforts.

1206
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:38,400
Cool.

1207
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:39,920
Okay.

1208
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:45,320
Well, that's, I think that's pretty much us done for this week then.

1209
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:50,160
And as always, if you have any other questions, get in touch with us on Twitter, drop in the

1210
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:55,440
chat, comment on the YouTube, if you are watching this back later.

1211
01:12:55,440 --> 01:12:59,000
Don't forget to like and subscribe because then you will get notifications for each show.

1212
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:04,800
We now move to a new time of 2100 hours every Wednesday, UTC.

1213
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,920
And we've got some cool guests coming up as well on future shows.

1214
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:13,040
We're going to be talking with, hopefully, Dan from Steakfish and there's some other

1215
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:17,800
exciting stuff that you'll kind of see and we'll tease it on Twitter and whatnot.

1216
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:24,480
And hey, maybe we will actually launch a game with no share chain and get some merch made

1217
01:13:24,480 --> 01:13:26,560
via the power of IBC and rugging.

1218
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:48,520
So we'll see where we go with that.