All right, yeah, Black Ox.
Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent
Validator teams.
Hello, and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent Validators
on the Cosmos.
And as you can see this week, we don't have null with us because he is down with
a nasty bout of the old COVID.
Normally he's kind of ahead of the curve on things including the terror crash,
but this time he's doing things after the rest of us it seems.
So he senses apologies.
But Jaby's joined us from the Pumos Palace.
Is that the name?
Yeah, exactly.
And yeah, we've got a few things we want to talk about today.
It's going to be quite infrastructure heavy, I guess, because there's a few things
that are obviously happening.
It particularly regards like UST and Luna and a lot of the projects in the fall
out from that last week, which I think we want to talk about.
And we also got some kind of, I suppose, bits and pieces of news we want to talk
about first.
So I think one thing that was mentioned on, I know we were talking about before
we started, I don't know if you're Serpa, you want to talk about the Stargate
launch a little bit.
A light piece of news in this topic?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, I mean, so as well, because you're involved in a lot of the infrastructure
provision for that launch.
So you've got some quite interesting metrics on just how busy that was and
everything, which I think is pretty interesting.
It was pretty interesting.
I think this is a follow up because we talked about obviously Stargaz and we
had Shane on a few weeks ago and those types of good things.
And so, yeah, so the marketplace just launched yesterday, I think it was,
all these days are of red numbers on my stock refer running together.
But yeah, so the marketplace launched and some interesting type numbers.
I think Jorge actually posted a couple of these screenshots as well.
But just the API structure, the Stargaz team built this pretty cool API kind
of caching layer for some of the NFT calls.
And so they tried to determine what of those RPC and other types of calls were
being cached.
And so they built kind of an API structure in there to do some caching.
I think a local data store of some sort that was returning a heavy amount of
static data, then there was obviously coming back to the actual validator set,
or I'm sorry, to the RPC note set for being like a contract addresses and other
types of things.
And so I think before that launch, we've had like different spikes when we had
mints and those mints kind of got to somewhere around maybe a thousand
transactions or requests a second somewhere around that.
And then yesterday, we went from, I think when it was away from those mints,
pretty much a static load on the RPC and REST calls of around 100, maybe 150
a second somewhere around there.
Then yesterday, it went up to about 6,000 a second for maybe a good hour when
the marketplace first opened.
I think people just looking and being put things up for sale and other transactions
and things like that.
And now it's kind of averaging out and staying pretty close to about a good
1,000 to 1,500 a second.
So it's actually pretty interesting to kind of see that load hit and just how
well these nodes actually respond to that much traffic.
We haven't really, I've never done too much testing on that or being able to
simulate testing like that, but it was actually pretty cool to see it go.
So the marketplace is good.
We've heard really good feedback from everyone, at least on Twitter, minus
a node that got out of sync today and producing some old data, which was weird.
But everything else on that, we've had, you know, I think the whole thing around
this is trying to have a great user experience from marketplace.
And I think everything I've heard so far has been, it's been pretty positive.
So that's good stuff.
So I have a, go ahead.
Yeah, I was going to say, so we heard that the Cosmos max transactions per
second, the theoretical max is like a thousand transactions per second.
Right.
So obviously that's not like transactions, including the block.
That's also including, you know, queer transactions as well.
Right.
Yeah. And actually, if you look at the, if you go for a look at the actual block
transactions during that structure, it doesn't change that much honestly.
Like, like I was looking at it was coming from maybe, you know, 234 up to
1215 25 transactions per block.
It wasn't massive.
Like it wasn't like we were seeing, you know, like you're even seeing as a, as a
baseline at Evo's and things like that where you're, you know, where Joe was
looking at, you know, 300 transactions and blocking things like that.
It's still pretty low, but I think the number of queries it's going to
be, you know, it's going to be a lot of queries.
It's calling the contract to get addresses and ownership and, you know,
everything else that goes with that.
There's a lot of, there's a lot of querying kind of going on to, to, to
build the UI and to, you know, to be able to create.
Transaction, they're bill actually, I guess, be able to get to the point where
you're actually putting a transaction in.
Can you give any sort of estimate for like how much that infrastructure
costed, like how much per month, because to me that sounds like an absurd.
Performance metric, right?
That many transactions.
And from what I've seen, I was, I was there during the mint when the, when
the new transactions were at max and there was, there was no lack.
Everything just went so well.
Yeah.
So it's, it's actually really not that expensive.
So we, the, the, the, was using a lot of VPSs and like non-bare metal type of
things.
And when, when they were looking at, um, turning this, uh, getting some help
with it and then we were talking a lot about bare metal servers and other types
of things that we're doing with that.
So, so right now, um, right now it's, it's basically run in the past, um, when
they're on some AWS machines and, and some digital ocean and things like that.
I think they had 17 or 18 nodes.
I think that we're synced and sitting behind different types of LBs load
balancers in terms of doing that.
And so right now I'm down to seven.
So I, uh, actually that's not true.
I have, I have eight.
Uh, there's two in the West coast of the U S there's three nodes in the East.
There's three in Europe and we're, we're actually standing up to in Asia
because, um, we're starting to realize how much traffic is coming out of, out
of Asia, um, um, that's being right now redirected to, to Europe.
And so Europe is carrying up those, that Europe structure is carrying up pretty
decent amount of traffic.
And so if you think about AX 101s, that type of pricing, um, maybe a little bit
more based on where those things are sitting, but I think overall those eight
nodes, um, and two of those are really, uh,
and two of those are, we're also running archive nodes because we wanted to
keep some extra copies of the blockchain.
So those are, you know, much bigger machines with eight terabytes of NBME
and stuff like that, just so it keeps up.
Um, I don't know.
It's probably, I gotta do the math, but it's probably 15, 2000 bucks a month.
USD.
It's not awful.
Um,
That's really not that bad.
No, it's not bad at all.
But I think, I think compared to what it was, I think, um, I think there,
I think before that, when the VPS days, I'm not talking about school here,
but it was probably two to three times that, um, when they were doing it on the
AWS side, you know, and digital ocean and those types of things.
Cause there were actually some pretty decent, the power of VPS servers in there.
And then so it's one of the benefits of bare metal, right?
So the management goes up, um, to be able to, and just be able to do,
do some better planning and things like that.
So, so right now that's sitting behind cloudflare.
And then cloudflare talks to multiple nodes in, um, in each region.
And I have, I do load balancing on the node level.
So basically it, cloudflare talks to both HAProxies and those are go all to all
nodes underneath there.
So I can have an outage, you know, from an HAProxy perspective,
recommend outage on a node perspective, those types of things,
and it'll still respond.
So, um, so I don't know, we're, I don't know what the theoretical limit is
and what we have so far right now.
It's more about redundancy than, than scale.
Cause it seems like we're maybe past some of the larger spikes,
at least for right now.
Um, so it's going to get to where we can, you know, I want to get to where
I could deal with regional outages or server outages and other types of stuff
that breaks in our typical daily lives and not have it be a, you know,
a four alarm fire type stuff.
So, uh, a practical question.
Just so I understand, is this, um, these, these machines,
they're primarily the RPC machines or they're also running the,
the caching layer and the custom stuff that you were talking about.
That is separate.
So those guys are for the NFT side, those caching is separate.
And then that layer talks to the main cloudflare RPC API, um,
restful services.
And then that gets distributed regionally depending on where that,
where that's coming from.
And then that, that, that API levels also in cloudflare, I should say that
caching levels also built in cloudflare.
So, um, so basically it's, it's all in the same structure.
Okay.
Is that, do you know how that's built?
Like what kind of service that is?
No, I don't, I don't, we should have, we could,
but Jorge should come out and talk about that a little bit.
Cause I, I think what they're doing there is pretty cool compared to, um,
and how they're, um, uh, how they're dealing with it,
just the amount of volume that's coming in there.
It's, it's still pretty amazing since how much is actually getting,
you know, through that layer out to the RPC type nodes.
I mean, there's still a huge amount of volume.
There's some things that they can't cash such as, you know,
all the kind of blockchain specific and contract lookup things,
but there's still a, it's pretty,
it's a lot of users, which is really good.
I just asked, I just asked Meow, if he knows, uh,
when he says he does.
I was going to say, come on, I'll talk about it.
So Jake, do you want to tell us how the, uh, how the Stargate thing works?
Real time.
Yeah.
He's going to jump on a laptop.
Um, and, and we'll, we'll, we'll circle,
we'll circle back around to Stargate marketplace then maybe.
Yeah.
Let's talk about more depressing topics.
Yeah. So, uh, when you say more depressing topics,
I mean, you want to, do you want to mention, uh, price chat?
Do you want to talk about, uh, where we, where we're at with UST?
Where are we at?
Last time I checked it was like eight cents each,
but I've been too afraid to look again.
I think right now it's like 10.
Yeah.
It depends on the exchange too, right?
I was just looking back.
I was, everybody's listening to this.
So we're, I was looking back at some of our notes from last,
from last week.
And at that point while we were on the call,
cause I think things are moving a lot while we're in the call,
USD was at 78 cents and Luna was at $1.24.
And the world seemed to be ending then.
So.
We were just left behind.
It can always get worse is the, is the month.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's, I think it's quite interesting as well because in,
I mean, this is something we talked about quite a bit with Prop 16,
which was the, the theoretical responsibility of the validators,
how much network control they actually have.
And I guess what we saw was, we saw as the CEO being effectively on the TV,
saying one thing, if you like, and the validator set doing another.
And again, so I guess it's different in the sense of maybe the,
the prevailing sentiment around the, around the way or in the,
the validator set, I think did something that was more in line with what the
community wanted than what maybe do was saying publicly.
But it's like an interesting scenario, isn't it to play out the validator set.
Okay.
No, this is, this is out of control.
We're stopping the chain.
Right.
And also, I mean, I know in our group chat,
Jaby was talking about the theoretical implications of the tokenomics and things
that were happening there.
And it, it certainly seems like, I mean, we also obviously know people that are
running validates on, on, on terror as well.
So, and getting that perspective on this was like really interesting too, right?
Yeah.
And the U.S.T. I mean, I mean, when it really launched in the cosmos, it was such a,
it was a really, um, turn point for me at least because it wasn't that long ago.
I don't get me wrong, but it was turn point just because it allowed, um,
it brought, I thought it brought a lot of validity to the cosmos and it brought the
capability of taking rewards and other types of things been warning on and being
able to put that in a quote unquote, a safe location and thinking about it that
way and understanding the risks behind that.
But still, like the growth was there and the growth of Luna and everything else,
like it seemed like it's, I think, I think what's really amazing to me is just how
fast, just how fast it unraveled.
Like that, that speed is just unbelievable, right?
And then I was, we were watching, I was watching the circulating supply on the
Luna side because that was, you know, obviously, you know, from the, from the
Mint perspective and just seeing that go from 300 million.
And the next thing, the time you look, it was 17 billion.
And then it was 300 billion or whatever it was.
And now it's at 6.5 trillion, whatever that was, but that, that arc was just brutal.
And so, so how did that happen?
Was that because they were burning UST to mint Luna and that just kept entering
a death spiral?
What happened there?
How did those, all those mint, they didn't suddenly crank up the inflation, right?
Right.
So the whole point of, of Tara USD was that when we get a bunch of value in Tara,
we can mint Tara USD, a bunch of Luna, we can get a bunch of Tara USD.
But when Tara USD loses its peg, the algorithm says, Oh, well, I just need
to mint more Luna to compensate.
And so it kept minting more and minting more.
And it was like, well, I haven't caught up yet.
And, you know, once you chart it out, it's like, well, it's never going to catch up.
Right.
Yeah.
Yep.
And then the Bitcoin sell and everything else, like it's just, it's everything just feeds,
right?
It's just stuff, stuff to have a, it's stuff to have correlating assets that, that are
backing up, obviously, in this algorithm type structure.
And because it was so vulnerable, also when you, when you decide to sell 1.4 billion
dollars of it, like, yeah, it's going to drop.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's not worth what it has.
So I think that was all.
I like to think of a motorcycle, like an early motorcycle rider, when, you know, they've
sped up too much and their, their front wheel starts to wobble, it gets in like this harmonic
situation that just wobbles out of control and you just have to let go and it's fine.
Or, you know, crash.
Right.
Yeah.
So I guess, again, I guess the other thing.
So where, where are we now then?
We're, I suppose the interesting thing now is like, you know, what's going to happen in
terms of the confidence on the chain, because there's, it's obviously brought down UST,
which is kind of undermined the whole enterprise.
But like, you know, looking at it from the perspective of people in the cosmos, it's,
you know, first and foremost, terrorism smart contract chain, which has then sort of broke,
it's kind of suffered almost from an Ethereum problem, which is that a project that a lot
of, to be fair, a lot of projects obviously dependent on the availability of the stable
coin or to defy stuff.
But a lot of projects like all the entity projects that, you know, maybe relied on UST is not
on ramp, but like didn't necessarily actually need UST in their ecosystem to actually function
properly, but mainly were there for the size of the user base or the community have basically
been wrecked by something within the ecosystem that was sort of beyond their control, right?
And that's kind of the, it's kind of ironic, isn't it?
Because the terrorists built on the cosmos SDK and cosmos, this whole value proposition
is horizontal scaling and anti fragility by being more distributed, right?
Yeah.
I don't know what else to say about it.
Like, I think, I think to, I think one of the benefits and where do we go from here is
that I think ultimate, I mean, there's a lot of people that, that I think we all know,
and especially the validator set that might not have want to move things to Fiat because,
you know, think about taxes or thinking about, you know, just rewards other types of things
with that.
And, you know, want to have flexibility to have gas in the tank to maybe launch new
chains or types of things, right?
It's a, it's definitely an area that a lot of validators would have used to, and obviously
others to be able to store value to, to do something with.
And, and there's just so much loss associated with that.
Unfortunately, you know, I think it puts a lot of folks back and creates a lot of scare
and other types of things, which is why, you know, kind of where prices are today is just
a lot of fear, right?
I think ultimately though, I think one of the things that you guys are talking about,
what we wanted to talk about today is that I think one of the, it does create his opportunity,
right?
And it might create opportunity for other changes in the cosmos to grow, which we, which I know
for you want to talk about a little bit, meaning there's opportunities for Juno to play roles
that, that maybe parts of those projects could play.
And it might launch new chains and might do other types of things that make overall ecosystem
stronger and more resilient, right?
So I think, you know, that's maybe the best takeaway out of that, maybe.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, I suppose that even, obviously there's, there is an open question of like, you know,
there's now sort of like, TerraVe2.
Even if that, like even if you're looking at that from the perspective of being involved
in another smart contract chain in the cosmos, which might, you know, instead might prospectively
be able to bring over large projects from, from Terra now that the market has sort of
lost a degree of confidence in it.
There is actually, you know, the question of whether even if that chain restarts and
successful, just the simple fact of it being successful and being more IBC aware, if you
like, like more, more aware of its position as a cosmos chain and more willing to engage
in its chain interaction is actually like a potentially a huge sea change for the cosmos.
Anyway, like just that fact on its own of, I think the Terra Foundation maybe having that
like the control they did over the ecosystem and over the Terra ecosystem and like its future
development, just that fact changing on its own and the chain becoming more actually in
practice governed by the very least its developer base and possibly its wider user base too.
And like I say, like we were talking about earlier, like being a control by its validator
set, you know, it would be the absolute least because that's demonstrably what's happened.
That's again, a huge sea change for Terra and it's probably a really positive thing for
cosmos because it's that, you know, even if it keeps a tenth of its user base and brings
them even imagining that all those users and all those projects just went like banished
into thin air, if 10% of those users or 10, 20% of those users stay in that ecosystem,
but it moves closer to cosmos, that would be a huge win for the whole cosmos, I think.
Yeah, I mean, I largely agree, I think there was a lot of confusion and fear around Terra
going down.
Like I saw a lot of people messaging about how Terra went down, which took down cosmos
and osmosis and secret when really Terra took down the IBC and so you can no longer interact
with them, but those other chains weren't down.
But I think that just that interaction happening caused a lot of fear in the user base.
That was kind of unnecessary and I don't think there's a good enough communication about,
hey, this one chain went down, but everyone else is still like we're still running.
We're fine.
And I think there was a lot of confusion around that.
Yeah, Kerberos was fine the whole time.
Yeah, all of the doggy mean chains were just, they were producing blocks, that was the most
important thing.
I make more and rewards on Kerberos right now than I was going to say Terra validators,
but that seems rude.
That's a low blow.
You've already had to issue a public apology for your Terra jokes.
But there's actually, we're on a flag, we've just had a comment come in, which I saw, I
think it's quite an interesting one, just like I know it's a little bit off.
This is kind of picking up from what we were saying about infrastructure a little bit earlier.
So the question is thinking very long time, how do you handle storage needs for full archive
nodes, like if they become very, very, very large.
And I think this is something we've wondered out loud a lot.
We've talked about in previous episodes, which is like being brutally honest, a lot of validators
are not going to run full archive nodes, and especially in this bear market, now where
we don't know how long it's going to last, I think that it's going to be a genuine question
of who provides these and who provides this kind of public infrastructure, right?
I think we spoke at this one other episode too, because a lot of validators even moving
away from regular default pruning, because we want to get into, we want to be much more
responsive with things like that, and so we might run another node that's not a validator,
but I want to keep the same pruning settings and other types of things.
So I think generally having terabytes or hundreds of large scale terabytes of data laying around
is rough.
And not to mention that just that database is large, which means it's thrashing a lot
and it takes forever to back up and it takes a while.
So I don't know my answer in this chat, which people are listening, my answer was around
the idea that maybe we've had a few different chain forks and things like that where maybe
at some point a new genesis gets cut and that original history gets squashed and we start
over, and so we maybe do something like that.
But I think it's an issue, right?
It's something that's going to turn to a bigger problem depending on the chain and the amount
of data that's being stored.
And I think there's also an interesting thing that we've been talking about in terms of
general core development, I suppose, which is that we are, especially because of the
attack we suffered, we've completely changed our releases process and how that works.
And we work, if anything, much closer than we did before.
We already work pretty closely with the Confia guys and Cosmosm, but we work even more closely
with them than we did before.
And an interesting corollary of that is that the way we do upgrades has radically changed.
And I think other chains will probably also do it differently.
And what that does do, though, is make it much more difficult for people to sink from
genesis.
And if you can't sink from genesis, that's potentially quite problematic for actually
having that trust and faith in the chain because it's like a core turn of decentralization,
isn't it?
So you sink the chain from genesis and arrive in the set and have floating power should you
be staked, right?
Yeah.
But do you consider genesis block one?
Well, that's another question, isn't it?
Because there's obviously a whole bunch of chains that did the early upgrades, actually,
where you do just move, you essentially create a new chain, like Terra Columbus 5, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think Adam's gone through those.
We did obviously have most, right?
And those types of things, right?
So those are, I mean, they're new genesis file, but they're not starting at block one.
And I don't even know, can you, like, in those early Adam things, can you find, are there
nodes out there that you could start from, she'll see, might know this.
Are there nodes that you can start from actually block one and then sink all the way to the
point where it forked and everything?
Yeah.
So there's not a lot of point in doing that, but you can absolutely do that.
So like, you can't on one computer, like systematically go from Cosmos 1 and go forward
to Cosmos 2 and then load from there, load to there.
Only thing you do with those previous sets now is you'll generally find an archive node
of Cosmos 1, Cosmos 2, Cosmos 3, and then you can sink from the start of Cosmos 4 onward.
So you could prove, you could go back and re-prove the history to show that where we
are is where we should be, if you had to.
But at some point, you're stopping a node, you're doing some math to figure out if it's
exactly the same as the genesis for the next chain.
Yeah.
So there would be a lot of chaos to it, but strictly speaking, it is possible.
Jake has joined us.
Yo, what's up, guys?
What's happening?
A lot of things are happening.
Actually, a lot of good things.
I'm pretty stoked.
How are you guys?
Really good.
So you guys are in Prague together?
Yeah, we're in Prague.
It's been great.
Actually, the conference was really exciting and got to chat with so many great people,
many terror teams as well, too.
So I haven't been hearing your conversation.
I've only been hearing Alex's side of it.
So kind of, yeah, I'll just sit and listen for a bit.
I'll just work.
Alex, who's Alex?
I only know him.
Oh, yeah.
I know that.
It's Alex.
Oh, I just talked to him.
Sorry, I already got docs during the whale drama, so anybody that needs to know that can
already work it out.
Well, now it's also on YouTube, so fantastic.
So we were actually talking about the reason I grabbed you across the room was that we
were kind of curious about how the caching layer works in Stargaze because, again, it's
something as infrastructure providers that we're pretty interested in in terms of just
how much needs to go on chain or how much should go on chain and how much is off chain,
right?
And especially in the NFT case, I think this is something that's come up over and over
again as criticism of NFTs from people who are outside of the space and technical.
And in some cases, people who are outside the case and space and non-technical.
Like I saw a very tepid tweet the other day about like, blockchain is a slow, append-only
database and I was like, well, Apache Kafka is a fast, append-only database.
What's your point?
You know, CERN use one because it's fast and append-only.
We use this other one that's slow and append-only because it has an immutability property.
You know?
Yeah.
So you want to hear some really cool stuff.
There is no caching layer for Stargaze.
It's all on the front end.
Like we just use react query and don't fetch the same thing more than once.
It's actually query and directly off chain.
Now for the images, we have all the images on IPFS.
So we're not actually storing a full NFT on chain.
That would not be sustainable.
That would be very expensive.
That would not be fun to run nodes for.
So we do store the IPFS hash and we do use some caching for the images.
It's actually really helpful to have those images in a well-placed CDN.
So currently for that, we're using Pinata.
Pinata actually has a CDN service for IPFS, which is really useful.
But they're not the only ones these days.
So actually Cloud Flare has entered the game.
So you can actually use Cloud Flare for IPFS assets as well.
I think as the whole ecosystem evolves and things like IPFS and decentralized kind of
file protocols really get adoption, I think we might even see some more distributed versions
of caching of these files.
I see no reason why in two or three years we might not have a Cosmos chain that we're
validators also pin these files and serve them up.
But obviously something like that would require a lot of work and thought.
So yeah, there's actually no caching.
It's all direct RPC queries to the Cosmos contracts and it's actually amazing how performant
that is.
And yeah.
Can you talk a little bit about, sorry for interrupting, if you want to keep going.
I mean, we are actually adding an indexer purely because people want things like search.
And searches actually, while the Cosmos and smart contracts are very, very powerful and
you can do these amazing queries that are actually surprisingly performant.
Search is still hard in Cosmos.
I've not seen a really good Cosmos and search implementation.
And so if you want to, for example, figure out query like an NFT by like a trait, you
want to get all the really sad looking bad kids, then it's start skating.
Then you start needing to have an indexer.
Now, we could maybe index all this data on chain, but then it's more data stored on chain
and there's tradeoffs to all these things.
But we are looking to switch to an indexer mostly for search with doubt.
Now, we also launched a search.
That was another, you know, application that is surprisingly entirely direct on chain queries.
And that kind of makes it as decentralized as possible.
There's no third party interface.
You just need an RPC node and that's it.
But we are adding an indexer.
We recently launched a search feature that allows you to search for a DAO by name and
that uses an indexer.
So yeah, that's that.
And when you say, when you say indexer in this situation, and this is super weird because
we're actually about like three feet from one another here.
We're kind of like stiff past the room.
But when you say indexer, that is that what kind of technology are we talking in the back?
And so I think this is also an interesting question, which we'll come back to in a little
bit when we talk about some of the infrastructure questions we've been getting from terror teams
who are looking to move over, which is like, you know, for me, I hear like the, especially
with the marketplace launch, which has been very, very successful.
And we saw, is it cool to say what we saw?
We saw Josh Lee just buying a load of bad kids.
And there were a bunch of people really, really stoked on the marketplace in Prague.
And that launch seems to go really well.
It was cool.
But one of the things that I guess we were also talking about, which you've touched on
there is that there are quite often particular traits and things that you want to look for.
And it roughly conforms to like fasted search, right?
Whereas I think a lot of the like, certainly the BD Juno type stuff, which no relation
to the Juno project, the chain, it just happens to be called the same thing, which is the
index of behind this used by a lot of what's it called big dipper and stuff, those indexes,
they actually post grass into the hood.
But I guess what's interesting here is that in a consumer use case, particularly for things
like NFTs, particularly for like Dowdow, search is really the big thing, right?
And so that's actually like a completely different technology stack.
You'd be traditionally, I suppose, thinking of something like Elasticsearch, which is,
you can do a fasted search natively, but it's a bit more lossy as a like, if the immutability
property of a blockchain is about as strong as it can get in database technology, then
the immutability and completeness of data on something like a search cluster and like
Elasticsearch is about as unguaranteed as it can be.
So I suppose because we're largely infrastructure people in the school, what does the future
of that kind of indexing technology look like?
And again, Meow, if you want to talk a bit about how you're approaching that problem
with Dowdow, because I guess you're building an index of Cosmos, right?
Well, Zeke, who's incredibly talented, built a really quick and dirty indexer for Dowdow.
But there's actually a lot of indexer efforts that are happening in Cosmos, and I think
it's probably good to speak to some of those, and then I think it's good to talk about maybe
where we want everything to go.
So we've actually funded through the Juno Core Dev Fund, a couple of teams to work on
indexers.
So there's two different implementations, actually.
There's one in Go and one in Rust.
And both are designed to be like extensible kind of better versions of BD Juno and specific
for Cosmos.
Each contract is going to be different.
So for example, when you index a Dow contract, sure, I want to be able to search by names.
That's one use case.
But I also want to be able to create an inbox for every Dow I'm in.
I want to see all the open proposals, almost like notifications.
If a new proposal, what if I want to build a notification service?
So these are kind of use cases where we'd have to build something that's really custom
to these kinds of contracts.
Yeah, shout out Zeke.
So we are funding like two efforts on the indexer.
And actually because of Terra, there's actually a third one that's kind of jumped in the frame.
We've been talking with a team, they're called Subgraph.
And they've been actually pretty popular with various Terra projects.
And they do indexing and they also expose the GraphQL API, which is really cool.
So really, really excited to be talking with them.
And I think we're going to figure something out there.
I think indexers are the kind of thing where I think it's actually kind of great to have
multiple implementations in the ecosystem.
There's a fourth effort.
So Figment has been working with the Graph as in the Graph Protocol.
And they're supposedly working on a Cosmos integration.
I'm not sure how far that is, but that's another thing to be keeping an eye out for.
But I'm particularly very excited about Subgraph coming to Juno and other Cosmos and Chains.
I think that'll be really, really great for this ecosystem.
In terms of long term, I do think it's kind of funny because you already have this database
on our validator nodes.
And maybe it's RocksDB or maybe you're using LevelDB or I'm not sure what the sampling is
of what database you guys are using with your nodes.
But we already kind of do have a database.
And there has been some work by Tendermint as well to add a Postgres kind of sync functionality
to the Cosmos SDK.
And I think I kind of feel like there's a lot of potential there.
We've already got this data.
Can we figure out a better way to shove it into Elasticsearch?
Don't have a ton of answers there, but if anyone in the chat or listening is interested
in working on these kinds of problems or has ideas for how we might go about improving
the situation, my DMs are open on Twitter.
So I don't reach out.
And I guess that's a very solved problem from stream processing type stuff, isn't it?
Because large-scale streaming systems like Apache Kafka and as well, large serverless
implementations using the cloud provider of your choice.
AWS, but other providers are available or GCP, whatever.
They also have that same model like the kind of sync and source type stuff is like really,
really well established as an ETL mechanism.
ETL being for those that didn't work in data processing for too much of their career, extract
transform load, which simply just means shoving data around from one place to another.
So given that we are kind of a slow stream system, we're right ahead log from a database,
basically abstracted into a distributed ledger.
There's probably a lot of the techniques of streaming data systems that are actually applicable
in our case and could be applied to make these systems better.
The question is whether all validators should have to also provide that infrastructure or
work with it or to what extent, because otherwise it comes back to the archive, no problem,
which is what happens when nobody decides to run that sync because of their market?
Yeah, so I've got some thoughts on this.
I'd love to hear what you guys think about this.
And I don't know how many people saw my talk in Prague, but it was about DAOs.
And I really think that we need to fund these efforts and we more importantly need a group.
We need an infrastructure DAO.
We need a DAO that is specifically going to go out and fund the infrastructure.
Right now, people have been doing it on this ad hoc basis.
I'm going to say DAO a lot now.
Yeah, okay.
We've been doing this on a very ad hoc basis where people run relayers and then Core One
gets back to you a month later to reimburse you.
And you've already basically, it's not very efficient.
It's very slow.
Same thing with the RPC nodes.
I think we can do better.
And so we need it effectively like a sub DAO or a small committee or team could be some
of the people on this call, some validators.
And basically, they would get a budget from either the Dev Fund or likely the Dev Fund.
I think this makes sense to come from the Dev Fund.
It could be a community pool depending for other chains, for example.
And they would get a budget to go out and fund things like RPC nodes and relayers and
archive nodes.
Because those are public goods that we all need and it costs money to host that stuff.
And so these are public goods that we all need to really run and build applications on the
chain.
And we need a group that is focused on basically funding those kind of efforts and making sure
that the people that are running them are doing a great job.
I also think that there's a lot of potential to potentially, I think RPC nodes can kind
of be a single point of failure.
And that like, I'll give you an example.
I love the Kepler team a lot, but they run single RPC nodes for the wallets.
And Stargaze launched.
We had this big freakout session because there was a time when we upgraded the chain.
And Kepler did an upgrade and they were asleep in Korea.
And then the wallet was broken.
And who did everyone blame?
They blamed us.
And they blamed the chains broken.
I can't see my balance.
The chains broken.
I can't do any transactions.
And there's no, how do we like build a nice fallback system?
Like, should we be thinking about deploying, like using interchange accounts and deploying
load balancers on a cost?
And like teaming up as validators to like have some redundancy, like a lot of the apps
on Juno, and this is actually not unique to Juno.
This is actually very true in the larger crypto ecosystem is one of the, it's a valid
criticism of it.
So even an Ethereum like MetaMask basically uses one default RPC node for all of the
Ethereum, like there is, you know, in, in Cosmos or Terra, you know, DApps typically
use just one RPC node without no fallback.
So I think there's a lot to think about here.
But anyway, let's back up infrastructure now.
What are you guys' thoughts?
Yay, nay, you have another idea?
No, I, I totally agree.
Because it kind of seems like it's, it's very sporadic.
And then some teams are very open around that, like being, getting involved in Sargaze,
but other teams are pretty closed around that.
Or they want to find a way to be able to use foundation delegations, quote unquote, to be
able to drive that.
And then communication around there and how well that is performed, everything else is
really challenging.
The other piece of that is also, like I think Cloudflare becomes a single, also a single
point of failure in here because it really is, in my eyes, the only somewhat affordable
global distribution network that really works for, for what we use, like for what we use
it for here.
If I want to have a single, you know, single RPC address that has, that has global distribution
based on location and things like that.
If you start getting AWS and Akamai and other types of things, it gets really, really, really
expensive and really prohibitive.
So that means everybody goes to Cloudflare because it's pretty, you know, so that turns
into it.
So if there's a Cloudflare outage, same type of thing happens.
So it would be, it'd be nice to think about this one level up and that could be a service
that could be delivered by an infrastructure Dow, something similar to that that other
chains could use or be able to provide that as a service that has a much more, you know,
a much more fall tolerant, not saying Cloudflare is not fall tolerant.
I'm sure, I'm sure it's ridiculously fall tolerant, but it's still one provider, right?
So I think that idea would be, it would be pretty interesting to figure out how that
would work and be incentivized and something that would be fair and, and clearly defined
because I think sometimes, you know, we've talked about this with Noel a bunch of times
around foundation delegations, but that's really different across different chains and
what they value and not finding some way to, to turn that into something that could be
communicated and built would be pretty interesting.
What do you guys think?
Joel Schutze.
I mean, I also threw in there that I think as far as like an infrastructure Dow goes,
a lot of the time these conversations revolve around like, well, how much is the server
cost?
It costs $106 a month.
Okay.
And then you'll throw another hard drive in there.
That's $45.
So I want $150 a month for, for managing this.
Right.
But obviously we have like setting it up, managing it.
That's, let's say, let's say it's just two hours a week.
In that, in that first week, we've already basically blew our budget because each one
of us is probably worth more than $100 an hour.
Right.
And that conversation, I think really, really comes up as to like what these Dow's or these
communities are worth is how much manpower, how much expertise is going into it.
It's so much more than just the server costs that are, that are being involved.
Yeah.
I think exactly.
And, you know, I think that's why, you know, does it mean to people at the end of the day,
you know, it's like, uh, and I think that it's a,
it's important to keep in mind that that should be built into the cost, you know, because
it does take a lot of time for, for like people are doing a lot of work.
It's not just the cost, the end, you know, of the running the hardware.
It is a lot of work to do this.
And, you know, there should be, you know, maybe index or Dow gets a certain budget,
you know, and then they can make delegations with that or, you know, they can make direct
payments, you know, people.
I think we should just start out and kind of just start experimenting with things, especially
on Juno.
And, you know, we can, it probably won't be perfect right away, but, you know, trial
and error and evolution is like a lot of times a good way to build things.
Yeah.
Um, and, but yeah, you're completely right about, about the, about the people we have.
That has to be taken into account with the costs.
So one thing I'll also throw in there is that a secret network actually used to have an
infrastructure committee and their responsibilities and did include basically just that not relays
because relaying wasn't a thing then.
Um, and in the sense that secret didn't have IBC yet.
Um, but they did take into account, you know, I'm probably going to spend 10 hours a week
on this so that there's this, you know, my salary.
I'm going to host these API's for the community to use.
I'm going to make sure this documentation is up to date.
I'm going to direct the test net on these sorts of like scaling responsibilities are
different things they focused on, um, and would certainly it'd be worthwhile considering
them as well with, and then June.
Yeah, totally.
Uh, did they make decisions on chain or do you know how they ran theirs or?
So the infrastructure community doesn't really exist right now, but yeah, it used to be a
community fund proposal to, to fund them.
Yeah.
I'm kind of thinking that we should run obviously I'm biased here and so you can push back on
this, but I do kind of think we should, um, run this on a doubt out out, um, just because
it allows for kind of a maybe a smaller group of experts and, uh, also kind of allows for
transparency.
Everyone can see that what proposals, what people are asking for, you know, and then,
then it's still public and you know, the people can still use Cosmos governance if they're
not satisfied with, you know, how infrastructure infrastructure, what infrastructure that was
doing, you know, maybe they'll propose like, um, you know, what kind of infrastructure
it was like, oh, some people should be removed from infrastructure doubt.
We can even create really interesting arrangements where we like, um, you know, the main governance
module will have some control over infrastructure doubt, maybe even controlling who gets voted
onto it, um, which could be a really interesting thing.
Yeah.
I mean, what do you think, Joe?
I want to know what Jaby thinks of this, but also I think we've, we've also, I've, I've
talked in the past and probably been a bit boring about the fact that I think it would
be interesting to experiment more broadly with, um, the idea that validator sets a semi-fungible
like the validator themselves get dynamically removed from the set, um, based on performance.
And I know that there are mechanisms in evolving proof of state systems to do this, but I think
that's also an interesting use case for, you know, if we go back to what we were talking
about maybe 10, 15 minutes ago about what is the evolving responsibility of a validator
in the case that we are wanting additional provision of things like indexes, sources,
sinks, maybe RPCs, whatever, um, you know, the long-term vision of an infrastructure
doubt, if you generalize the problem to, um, it's tooling that isn't limited to one chain
is maybe this is actually a cosmos zone of its own.
And in that situation, making, um, make, being able to bring people in and out of the doubt
via governance or via another mechanism is actually the same problem as a fungible validator
set, which is essentially deciding who is a validator based on performance past and
past the future.
So just an idea, throwing that out there, um, is this in fact a cosmos?
Like is the long-term vision for an infrastructure doubt that this is just a cosmos zone because
after all zones of cosmos are, are doubts.
I just got a little bit of a case of the jackhands there.
Did you see that?
Yeah, I mean, I think that, um, certainly in this bootstrapping phase, it makes sense
to have a, a funded effort to provide these services for, you know, necessary growth.
But at some point, you know, app providers themselves will be incentivized to, you know,
buy the endpoints on their own, but they have to get through that bootstrapping phase where
they can actually realize that is the next step for them to evolve to.
Because no matter what we can do as an infrastructure doubt will always be sort of lagging behind
the growth of some app or some, uh, use case and that the folks that are generating that
use case, they'll have the, you know, sort of the leading indicator about what they need
and where they need to go.
And so they can build, uh, the right amount of scalability towards, you know, Asia Pacific
or, or EU or, or what, what have you.
Um, so I think that, you know, it's a, a necessary but transient type thing that we need.
Um, certainly with MetaMask, you know, Infura is providing the bulk of their RPC requests
so it might very well be that it, you know, sort of hones in on a specific use case, but
uh, I think that at some point we will see the apps sort of, you know, almost like what
DowDow does right now with its, uh, its front end, um, continue to iterate on that and,
and provide more.
I think actually talking about DApps actually kind of brings up an interesting point is I
think we're right now, we're kind of in this stage of we should just be running public
RPC nodes, but we cannot defy deny the fact that like JunoSwap uses like a lot of like
RPC calls.
Uh, and some actually JunoSwap is pretty good now because it's been, we've been fine tuning
it cause a ton of RPC calls during like, uh, something like the raw launch can lead to
some down time.
Um, but there are, you know, poorly written front front end apps, like for example, uh,
Fortis, uh, which was making like a ton of RPC calls, kind of for no reason, like all
the time.
Um, and eventually we have to move past the stage where we're just like, if there's one
DApp, for example, and they're just using a ton of RPC resources, like we need to definitely
think about pathways for them to either figure out how to run it themselves or, uh, potentially
like find a way for them to contribute back.
Uh, lol, at that comment about Fortis.
Um, uh, you know, maybe at some point done, done the road, it makes sense for projects
to like pay for, pay for infrastructure.
I'm not sure exactly what that would look like.
So again, taking this back a little bit to why this went on the topics for discussion
this show.
Um, we've obviously been talking to, um, Meow has the, everybody involved in dev, Juno
has been talking, has had people get in touch with them about the terror situation about
migrating to Juno about how do we do it?
Obviously prop 23 has gone on chain and is likely to pass at this point.
So there is a coordinated effort to, um, bring projects into Juno and obviously other networks
have been doing the same thing for, um, projects that are closer to their use case.
Like obviously, uh, I know Stargaze are obviously talking to people and secret, obviously for
privacy focused stuff or obviously talking to projects and terror.
And this is, this is continuing that some projects are going to presumably stay on terror
and go with the relaunch and other projects will find a chain that suits better, maybe
where they see themselves now and in the future and they will, um, move over to that.
So as somebody who's very much in the cosmosm and also maybe in, I'm a little bit in the
DevRel space because we were here so early in terms of launching, uh, launching Dapps
and Juno and also being maybe one of the first developers hanging around discord when people
were launched, were joining like last year and whatnot.
We get a lot of these sort of questions from people like, Oh, somebody's asked me, um,
this question about the developer experience in Juno, what do you think I should respond
to them with and something like that.
And the reason that question originally went in the chat about, you know, infrastructure
and whatnot is because somebody is specifically, um, shout out to, I think it was tricky crypto
is their handle, was specifically had this question that they had seen about, um, developer
teams who are trying to move over to Juno or and other cosmos projects to be clear.
Um, and they were asking about the tooling that they found within the ecosystem versus
Terrax, Terra has a much more ergonomic development developer experience.
And the comment that had been thrown my way was that they felt that the teams waiting
to see if, uh, Terra relaunched, um, were, were kind of essentially betting on the ergonomics
of the, of the system.
And the comment I've seen was, you know, it's two years ahead of where the rest of the cosmos
is.
And so like, I'm kind of, I could see me out immediately reacting to that.
Um, I obviously, I think that comment is like, nah, that's kind of hyperbole.
Yeah, it's a complete hyperbole.
And, uh, you know, we do have funds for people that want to help build us up to like a similar
level of tooling and a similar level of tooling for all of cosmism, not just Terra.
Uh, and I think we can get there in six months.
I really do.
I also don't think it's that much better.
People just hate change and like, you know, it's okay.
Yeah, there's a UI for you to upload your cosmals and binary, but you still have to
like, you know, compile it on the command line.
And it's pretty easy to do that in Russ.
Um, uh, you know, they have some Node.js tools that will compile it for you, but you're still
entering it on the command line.
You're just using a Node.js, Node.js tool and you're writing npm rather than cargo.
Um, but I do think we can make a lot of improvements there and like catch up really quickly.
And again, my plea to all of you watchers and listeners of this podcast is if you have
ideas for things that you've seen in Terra that you would like to bring to the wider
cosmolism ecosystem, hit me up.
And as an aside as well, just on the, um, simple upload interface, we have cosmolism
tools.
We have Juno Blueprints.
So Jan's Alex and Disverse did Juno Blueprints and AS we were from Howl, um, did, uh, cosmolism
tools, both which are very useful for doing that sort of stuff.
So I think also it's probably, there's a little element of it being just pure unfamiliarity
with like, what is there?
Because you, it's not like every single one of these projects isn't just listed on like,
this is the approved her a way of doing things.
They're on the Juno ecosystem page.
If you are looking at secrets tooling, then you might not necessarily know about cosmolism
tools.
And of course, like equally, I might not be aware of similar tools exist on secret because
we are all of these different communities.
And sometimes the wheel has been reinvented, right?
But at the same time we may be less, I think this is something Jabby was talking about
a little bit before we were just like having a chat before the show about whether or not
this represents like, writtenness, like sometimes reinventing the wheel can be a sign that there's
just lots of people working on the same ideas and bootstrapping their own dev tooling.
And you know, Jabby is also prime example of this because Jabby builds a lot of dev tools
and shares them with other people, even if they're just crazy bash scripts, you know,
a little bit like block painting and co in that regard, like, like, kind of, what's the
word I'm looking for dog food in, which is appropriate given, you know,
I don't understand what sort of dog food what I what I like.
Yeah, certainly.
Is that a pop bounce reference?
I think it was.
I will say I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know who it could be referencing.
A lot of this fragmentation is because secret has a fork of cosmosom.
There's really actually even more outdated than the terror stuff, the terror stuff could
actually be quite easy.
Terror is also a fork of cosmosom.
And it's closer.
I think one of the really cool things about Juno is that we're using like the pure non
forked 1.0 cosmosom, you know, and that means that the tools we built for Juno are usable
by any cosmosom chain.
And I think that that's really what we need going forward.
And that will lead to a lot more fragment, lot less fragmentation and a lot better developer
experience for cosmosom as a whole.
Like, yes, yes, Callum, let's go.
So I want to point that out.
And yeah, we probably have a little bit of catch up to do.
I think much of the catch up is on education and documentation.
Like people need to learn that these tools exist.
And, you know, in terms of future parody, there is a lot of work that's being done.
So I'm working with my friend Dan, and we're collaborating with Osmosis.
Yeah, Juno Osmosis collab on like, and with Confio on building out like better front end
like tools for cosmosom, where you just literally write your contract, you generate a schema,
and it will generate all the typescript types you need, a lot of like standard front end
stuff, it'll even generate like boilerplate for React query.
So you can just import like the hook you want to use for a particular query, or if you want
to make a transaction, you've got this nice little helper class with auto completion.
We're working on things like kind of scaffolding libraries and like UI component libraries.
For example, there's Juno blocks, something else that just came out.
And if you've not heard about it is check out telescope.
Telescope's really cool.
And so there's a lot of effort that is happening in the cosmosom dev tool space.
And because for the first time really, because previously we had these forks of secret and
Terra, and then like kind of the mainline cosmosom, there's convergence around the mainline
cosmosom.
We have three strong change of lease, and more on the way, you know, you've got Osmosis,
like Juno and Stargaze and many others.
And so I think now that we're kind of on like a stable cosmosom version, we're going to
start seeing really the tooling ecosystem catch up and I think even surpass what Terra
had.
But there's still lots of you on the education front.
Yeah.
We happen to have a, what's it, awesome Juno.
You know, there's normally some awesome cosmos, awesome.
Do we have one of those?
I think you see actually be awesome cosmosom.
Like let's just do awesome cosmosm and, you know, and we can definitely do awesome Juno
to you.
But we need that someone to just go out and make that please.
I will literally send you some bad kids, NFTs and some Juno.
Go, someone go and make it please.
I think Calum is probably in the chat literally doing that right now.
So we were kind of up towards the, to the end of the episode.
So there have been some good questions in the chat and I think you surf or to have at
least one question from a very organized spreadsheet that I think you wanted to bring
up.
But I'm going to go ahead and throw up a couple of questions that I've seen in the chat that
are good.
I think one of them I was literally about to interrupt you to ask, we literally just
got answered by that comment, which is that somebody said have, so back as Roman said,
have you ever thought about building out a knowledge base with some natural groups,
et cetera, et cetera.
It'd be easier to get across tools and resources available.
I think we've just literally covered that and said, yeah, that would be cool.
It's going to be called awesome Cosmoism and somebody should build it.
And then Mia will send you a bad kid.
Go build that.
Go, go make an awesome Cosmoism page and I'll drop you some bad kids.
Cool.
And then there's a question from Adam Burke, which is what infrastructure.
So Adam also asked the question earlier we had on indexes, archive nodes, which is a
really good question.
And we got a wide infrastructure that's not capable of being run on cash.
They want to put it in cash for adoption.
They should pay for their own info via interchain accounts.
Now this was something really interesting.
We actually talked with Greg.
If you haven't already seen it, there is a previous game of nodes episode with Greg from
a cache where we talk about the idea of like DAOs and autonomous organizations paying for
their own infrastructure and the fact that validators and whatnot are now more viable
to be run on cash than ever before.
And in addition, I think we've been obviously talking about this infrastructure DAO and it
seems like again, these are the same sorts of organizations where if that info DAO long
term is it say its own Cosmos zone, it can talk IBC to a cache.
If that becomes a public good chain and it's building stuff out, then there's a whole bunch
of stuff that doesn't exist yet because the technology doesn't exist yet, but we're still
relatively early and there's no reason why these things couldn't exist in the future
and govern their own infrastructure and whatnot, that would be incredibly exciting.
Thank you.
And I think they're going to exist really soon.
Interchain accounts on June or going to lend, I think very quickly, we have some actual
working branches with IBC E3.
It's just about planning the upgrade there.
And then I've actually been talking with Greg a lot about adding interchange accounts
to a cache.
And I think that that's going to happen in the very near term as well.
So I think we'll finally start having multiple Cosmos zones connected with the latest version
of IBC that supports interchange accounts really soon, like in a month or two.
So you heard here first.
And we've got another question from Garrison Academy, which I assume because there can
be so many people with the same name that this is only, this is Kevin from Only Validator.
What are the current index capabilities in June and what would need to be done to accommodate
incoming Terra projects and have two projects, etc.
Explain somewhat simply.
Well, I mean, honestly, I come from obviously a consulting background and a data background,
but also having run teams and whatnot, especially startups and things where you don't have
loads of resources.
My motto is I never build, also because I'm an idiot, I actually don't know that much
about the things I don't know.
I don't build anything I don't have to, right?
If I can buy something or pay somebody else to do something, whether they're an expert,
I will do that preferably.
And I get a lot of shit for running on AWS.
But this is also what our policies of our data company is, is that I've done bare metal
in my life and it was great fun.
But I was a younger, more sprightly man who liked waking up at two in the morning with
a page blaring my ear.
So in answer to your question, Garrison Academy, if that is your real name, I would say these
promising projects like subquery and whatnot that we're talking to have good product already
that is used by people and liked by people.
And maybe we should be giving them grants to be checking out and running this stuff on
Juno.
It's just my opinion.
That would be kind of cool.
But in addition, obviously, like Meow is saying, we can obviously be incentivizing people to
build new tooling.
I'm going to shut up and let other people throw an opinion in the ring on this one.
We are incentivizing people to build other, other towing.
We are funding multiple indexer efforts at the moment and actively talking with Subgraph.
And I think a lot of projects use that.
And if there are other projects that people use on Terra, we'll talk with them as well.
I'm really excited to get something like Subgraph on Juno.
I think that'd be great.
And yeah, we'll make it happen.
Let's do it.
Cool.
You said, did you have another question that you wanted to cover?
No, I don't think so.
The only one I wanted to pull out of the thing was when GamerNodes merge.
That's a good question, right?
We should have a conversation about that at some point.
That is a good question.
There was some very, very excellent Juno merge at Gateway.
Are they an Italian dial?
They're like a merge dial.
Yeah, they're called space merge.
And searching them on Twitter, they are, I think, called space merge dial on Twitter.
And yeah, they had some of the coolest Juno swag I've seen.
And it was basically just out instantly.
A lot of people that were very involved in Juno didn't even get any because it was just
gone.
So I guess it means that we need to launch your shit chain now as GamerNodes and then
get that value really pumping and then pay space dial via IBC, right?
Just get IBC and a load of tokens to make a load of hoodies and stuff.
And then I guess everybody gets a hoodie, right?
We can just send them, we can just like rug the chain and then use the money to post everybody's
hoodies.
So it's a kind of hoodie based Ponzi scheme for the viewers of this channel.
It's perfect.
Stable clothing.
Yeah, I mean, it could work.
I'm bullish.
Okay, folks, so let's kind of begin to wrap up there, which means that it's time for what
are you most excited about in the next week?
I obviously last week I was like, I'm super stoked about getting, being able to like actually
work on how again for a little bit and also get that a cash validator up.
And then things got really busy again.
So I did actually get to write some rust this week, which was sick.
But I didn't get my cash validator up yet.
We didn't we have we've got some of the tooling in place, but we haven't got it up yet.
So I'm just going to say the same thing as last week, which I'm still really excited
about a cache.
And I'm looking forward to need your cost getting our shit together on that one.
But should see has actually done that.
I mean, the time it took me to talk about it and talk about our plans should also just
went and squared it away, right?
Well, I didn't put a validator on there, but I did get my Akash, my setup on Akash is actually
really, really smooth.
I did have to bug the Akash led ex guys for a little bit of help because I never used
cloud player before.
But it went to a little while and now it's going super smooth.
And I'm pretty pleased with it.
Did you end up moving all your DNS over the cloud for as well?
Yeah, I did.
Yeah, yeah.
Previously, I was just using Google domains and doing it basically as simply as possible.
Yeah.
But I couldn't get like HTTP to HTTPS translated over and I was like, okay, I'm just going
to back out and go to somewhere that I know can support this.
Cool.
Nice.
So excited about the next week then.
You suffer.
You want to go first?
Yeah.
So I think somewhere, I have a lot of stuff that's kind of in the hopper, but I'm excited
that I'm ready to move past this UST thing, which I think has been for me a real mental
drain.
Like it's just been like this whole quarter has been like kind of sliced at the knees,
right?
You have all this, the whale stuff.
I know I wasn't even involved in the whale stuff the way you guys were, but it's still
mentally draining because it's kind of sitting on your shoulders, right?
I'm sure it was sitting on your shoulders.
You two guys, you know, a lot, right?
And then from that into UST and everything else, it just seems like kind of taken a lot
of baseballs to the face, right?
So I'm looking forward to, I see a bit of a turnaround here, even though the market today
was an absolute disaster and those types of things.
I still think that we'll see a little bit of reprieve in crypto and just in general.
So I just, I want some green.
I was going to make this logo green and things.
I just need some green.
Everything's red over here.
So, but I think that is part of what I'm excited about this week, which I'm very positive
in thinking about that.
We talked about this a little bit already, but I think just the first thing I was a little
bit, frankly, I was a little bit negative in my own viewing around this idea of terror
projects kind of coming in and the Dow thing and everything else.
I had the real wrong opinion around that.
And I think after I got away from the emotional side of it, I got to the reality side of it,
which I think is just an excellent opportunity, right?
And Jake, I said that before you joined, but if you think the positive aspect, there's
so many good things that were going on there that I think can spread out throughout the
cosmos.
I think these questions about two years behind those things will go away.
And I think that we get back to building and it'll find new homes.
And I think it allows the projects that are here to have more opportunities and new directions
that can support the tooling that things are coming out there.
I'm sure maybe there's some of the direction that you guys are taking from a Juno perspective
will change based on maybe what projects are coming in and change priorities.
And I think that's just good, right?
And so I think there's going to be a lot of positive coming out of that.
So I think that that's what I'm most excited about.
I think this next week is just more announcements and just kind of seeing how much, you know,
there's a lot of people who care really deeply and a lot of incredibly smart people.
And I think the more that good ideas come forward and the synergy start coming together,
good things are just going to happen a lot faster.
So I think that's a positive for today.
She'll say.
Yeah, yeah, I told a little bit of updates.
I didn't tell you what I'm looking forward to.
So I got accepted into the entertainment Academy, which is for new developers in the Cosmos
space.
And I'm really excited about that.
I've read through about the first module and I'm about to take the quiz.
And there's a lot to learn.
It's six weeks and 60 hours, so it says.
But with what's in the curriculum, there's no way it's going to be done in 60 hours.
I think it's going to be way longer than that.
But either way, I'm really excited about taking it on.
Nice.
That's pretty awesome.
And Jaby, do you want to tell us what you're excited about?
What's the goodest point in the Cosmos doing this week?
I hope he ships at some point.
But for me, it's all off chain.
My kids are graduating whatever grade they're in.
The elders are graduating high school.
There's so many.
I mean, it's gone.
I just number them like an array, you know, an index of kids of three.
No, not you kids of four.
I meant three.
And so, you know, that's generally goodness.
Let's see.
There's some upgrades happening like test nets and such.
And so that's exciting to have come down the line, see more features be tested out and
go.
I'm spending a lot of time researching, like at a deep level, to understand IBC, ICS 23,
and the actual underlying vector commitments.
And so I hope to produce a blog post in as soon as possible about explaining it at an
explain like I'm five type level of how these things actually work, how they're establishing
proof and making it more accessible specifically so relayers can reason about what's happening
as these different messages are going back and forth.
And I'm excited about two things.
The first is obviously talking with all the really cool teratabs and like bringing them
over to the wider cosmosm ecosystem and also helping them get the funding they need because
like honestly, some of them kind of got pretty burnt, which is really sad to see for like
such talented and like skilled and awesome people.
So I'm really excited for all those conversations you've got lined up and we're talking with
so many awesome teams and excellent projects that I think will just bring so much value,
not just to Juno, but like all of the cosmos.
So just completely stoked for that.
And then I'm also really excited to kick off this whole subdiales effort and really launching
like specifically in the context of Juno.
And then I think these patterns will be taken elsewhere in the cosmos and potentially even
some of them to their own zones.
But yeah, really kicking off like the whole effort around like a core devdow around a infrastructure
dial around a dial that's going to manage hack Juno, like really starting to make it
so that like core one is actually not needed and maybe someday we'll even get rid of it
when we're ready.
But like, I think it's important to start the experimentation now and so like, you know,
start trying these ideas and like figuring out how we're really going to organize ourselves
as a decentralized community.
Like we don't have the advantage of being one company where, you know, I'm CEO and like
Schultz and usurfer and Javi and I'm not going to dox you again.
So I'm really excited to start kicking off some of those efforts.
Cool.
Okay.
Well, that's, I think that's pretty much us done for this week then.
And as always, if you have any other questions, get in touch with us on Twitter, drop in the
chat, comment on the YouTube, if you are watching this back later.
Don't forget to like and subscribe because then you will get notifications for each show.
We now move to a new time of 2100 hours every Wednesday, UTC.
And we've got some cool guests coming up as well on future shows.
We're going to be talking with, hopefully, Dan from Steakfish and there's some other
exciting stuff that you'll kind of see and we'll tease it on Twitter and whatnot.
And hey, maybe we will actually launch a game with no share chain and get some merch made
via the power of IBC and rugging.
So we'll see where we go with that.