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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent validated teams.

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Hey, hello. Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent validated

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teams. And as you can see, we are now in a weird cold war with the beginning of the podcast. But

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on this week's episode, we are very excited because we have this little fan

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You've got technical issues, me.

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I'm having technical issues. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. No, it's good. Well, now it's good. Yeah.

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Now that you've set up technical issues, it's fantastic. Right. Okay. So it has,

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it has cleared up the second that I observed that there was a problem. Yes. That's computer

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programming for you, baby. Okay. So yeah, welcome Shane. Welcome, Cisla. We're going to be talking

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about NFTs, obviously, and their respective platforms and NFT interrupt and lots of exciting things.

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If you have any questions as we get going, drop them in the chat on YouTube,

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and we'll post them. We've got a few from Twitter as well, which we'll get onto.

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But first of all, we have our regular opening segment, which Null, I know you've got lots of

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thoughts on this dumbest thing you've seen in the crypto this week. Would you like to go first?

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No, I don't want to go first. I actually can't think of anything right now. I've been traveling

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all night. Okay. Well, I can volunteer something. I will volunteer that because of,

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apparently, completely misunderstanding how in transitive go dependencies work,

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we had to do a second security release last weekend after all of the fun we had with Juno last week.

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And that was, I think, largely down to me and some other folks. So that's the dumbest thing

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I've seen in crypto this week because I'm partly to blame for it.

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So, Jaby, do you want to go next?

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I guess I forgot to enable a Cosmo Pfizer service once, and Contavo rebooted one of my servers.

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I missed quite a few blocks on a testnet.

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It's pretty dumb.

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Without this week.

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That was earlier today.

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All right. Okay.

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On Desmos testnet. I also saw a dodgy GenTex from you as well.

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That was that.

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Oh, yeah, that's pretty dumb of me.

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What was that on?

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Now it looks like I'm just kind of sledging you, but yeah.

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Hey, what network was that on?

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Desmos testnet.

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Are they putting up another testnet, are they?

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They've been running the same one for a while.

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Shilty, dumbest thing you've seen, man.

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I mean, I don't want to talk too much crap on myself, but I was jailed on Cosmos

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while I was out of power in Puerto Rico.

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So I'm not super proud about that, but I'm not going to throw that out as the worst thing

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or the dumbest thing that I've seen.

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And I'm currently writing a script for being able to refund everyone.

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10,000 plus delegators, man.

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I'm starting to load up, create self-composed load balancers in order to get it going,

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and it's just, it's more of a task than you'd expect.

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Did he just mute himself and then keep talking?

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There's a lag on the video, I think.

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Oh, okay. Right.

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Coffee.

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Cicela, have you seen anything dumb in the Cosmos this week, man?

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Yeah. Just us where, we missed a few blocks on the recent upgrade, Stargate upgrade, where

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we installed and did everything, but didn't start the binary.

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I think that was what happened.

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So we missed a few blocks.

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It was pretty silly.

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And when I went to ping.pub, I saw that happen to a few other validators as well.

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And we immediately notified.

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So it was Zedadex that notified us and the chain went on.

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So I think, yeah, that was pretty dumb in my sense because everyone's like a validator.

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So yeah.

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Shout out to bloody ping.pub.

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I got to recognize good projects, man.

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And I'll tell you what, I reckon now every time there's like a network upgrade or anything to do

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with someone's like trying to rejoin or catch up as a group, everyone's got ping.pub open.

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And I'd hate to be that poor RPC getting flogged.

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Yeah.

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Because that's like a light explorer too.

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So it doesn't cache anything.

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And it's just constantly flogging RPC somewhere.

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So do you just pronounce cache?

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Yeah, cache.

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What do you call it?

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Cache.

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Cache.

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Would you please pronounce corollary for me the free?

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Corollary.

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I love it.

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What?

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Or aluminum perhaps.

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Wait, no.

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How about schedule?

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Or schedule.

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Schedule, yeah.

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You mean aluminium, shilty?

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Yeah, aluminium.

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Put out a big deal.

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Hood for me, like the hood of a car.

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Bonnet?

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Bonnet.

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Bonnet.

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Oh, right, right, right.

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I don't know what you're talking about.

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I think we must have, like, England and Australia share a lot of our,

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you know, pronunciation because, you know, we came from there.

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Are we here for the criminal for me, the free?

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Oh, Australian.

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Actually, isn't the trunk of a car called a Dickey in some places?

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Yeah, it is.

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It is.

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It is.

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It is.

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It is.

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It is.

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I thought you were about, my favourite Australian word is ute, right?

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Do you know that one?

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You don't have utes?

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We don't have, we don't have utes.

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They don't sell them here.

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I've seen a ute.

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There's somebody who lives near me with a ute and it's literally,

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they must have imported from Australia.

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But.

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Tell you your STV and cut the back off it.

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Yeah, no, you got to stand off.

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utes are like my favourite vehicle.

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Faith were in the US, like the Subaru Baja.

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Oh man, I would be all over so quick.

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They're my absolute favourite.

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You've got utes, like a tundra.

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Is it ute?

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They just call it a truck.

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Yeah, right.

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No, but those are like pickup trucks or they're like SUVs with like a deck,

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but like a ute is like like a fucking tiny Renault or some shit with a with a proper flatbed.

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That's super weird.

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That's like a sedan with a flatbed kind of deal.

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It's not a truck.

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A tundra is not a ute.

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That's a style.

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So I'd ute.

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They're fucking useless.

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They don't really make them anymore.

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I love it.

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That's true really.

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I love it.

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There's like a distinction.

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There's like different tiers of ute and that's the shit to ute.

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Well, the ones you're talking about are like,

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they're like you take a sedan and you cut the ass out of it and call it a ute, right?

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And yeah, exactly.

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What you call a pickup truck is what we call a ute most of the time.

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And that's just like you take your SUV and cut the ass out of it and then you've got a ute.

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So, you know, take anything and cut the ass out of it.

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You've got a ute.

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Take a van.

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You've got a fucking flatbed.

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We'll take that under advisement now.

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Shane, do you want to tell us the funniest thing you've seen in crypto this week?

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Stupidest thing.

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Um, man, this week, you know, I'm drawing blanks with that right now.

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I can't, uh, yeah, I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now.

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Is he going to guys have to come back to me on that one?

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It gets me like, what is the stupidest thing I've seen?

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I mean, we do plenty of stupid things and then figure it out and then try to fix it.

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So there's like, you know, plenty of like, I don't know, smart contract stuff that we would

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like screw up and then, you know, fix and then you get a deployed later.

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But something, uh, is this Cosmos specific or anything?

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Well, anything you want really.

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Could have been just, we usually make it Cosmos specific, but if you've seen something else,

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it's done, bring it up.

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And the default answer is Cardano.

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Cardano, I can just say Cardano.

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All right.

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Um, man, um, yeah, I'll get back to me on this one.

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Sorry.

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Jabby, of course you mean Cadano.

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Cadano.

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Yeah, I think it'd be Cardano.

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Well, um, Cadano.

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Difficult to say.

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I think in the south of England, you probably have people see Cardano.

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And I think in the north of England, you say you have people saying Cardano.

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Cadano.

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And that's presumably how Australians would say it.

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And that's pronounced.

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You know, apparently their consensus engine is, is really good.

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I've never, I've never used it or tried it, but I know that, uh,

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Minniprotocol used it for a while.

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And, uh, yeah.

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Well, some specific things about it.

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I don't really know.

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You're going to have to have to have to check it out.

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But the word on the street is that that shit is hot.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Nice.

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Um, so first, first question, I thought like, I, I was kind of interested in this actually,

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because it's something that, uh, has come up a bit when we've been chatting with,

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it's particularly, I know you, Serpa, and I have some maybe guilty pleasures in common,

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uh, on this front.

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But what do you guys listen to when you're, when you're working?

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It's like, to everybody, but I know, I know, I wanted to put this in as the ice breaker,

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because I know Shane has, in my opinion, pretty good taste in music.

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Yeah.

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You know, um, I was actually surprised when we were hanging out in Lisbon because I like

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rarely meet other people that are also into this like weird electronic, um, kind of like,

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what do you want to call it?

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Like, uh, post metal or something?

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Stuff with guitars.

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There's also got lots of electronics in it.

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I don't know.

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I, I have a friend who calls a yoga metal.

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So, uh, maybe that, uh, will put like an image in people's minds, but, um, these days though,

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I've been like, when I'm, when I'm coding, I either, I, I, I listen to metal or techno

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when I'm coding for some reason.

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Yeah.

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Metal seems just enduringly popular to loads of people I seem to talk to in the cosmos eco.

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Just like minimal techno, it seems to be all everywhere.

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Yeah. Just like relaxing techno.

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Yeah. Is he the minimal techno or, or something really loud and fast?

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I think the good thing about metal is that you don't get, um, hung up on the, you know,

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the words because you can't really understand them.

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So it's just like nice, nice noise.

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Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

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It's just like, you know, grunts or growls or like none at all.

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And you can actually just get, get stuff done.

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Yeah. But we were talking about, uh, what, um, like Russian circles, stuff like that, pelican.

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Yeah. I think we, we session quite a bit of pelican actually.

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Uh, that's something, it's classic straight up post rock stuff.

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Um, I've had quite a good during the, during the old, the old June crisis last week.

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I got a lot done to, um, there's some great YouTube mixes of, uh, basically jungle that

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was composed for nineties video games because the game composer, the game studios were like,

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this is what kids are into. They're into jungle, but we're not going to license any tracks.

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We've got to get composers to create original music that is like

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the jungle that we think the kids will listen to, but it's just slightly quirky and dorky and

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its own thing. Um, and like the ace combat soundtrack, all of the snowboarding video games

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and stuff. And as soon as you listen to it, you're like, oh, shit, this is literally my childhood.

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This is why I'm into the music I'm into. It's so obvious cause it's just like,

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it's sort of like jungle, but also a bit industrial, but also a bit whatever.

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And it's just not quite any of the things. And you're like, oh, it's really its own subgenre

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of jungle, but recommend that. Uh, so what do you, what do you use to work to? Uh, yeah,

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anything that not anything actually, uh, desert dwellers, uh, sponger, you know, these are things

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that are at least simple, uh, like 140 BPM, you know, lower than that without lyrics.

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You know, that's, that's where I'm at. So I get that pace and yeah.

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Isn't like 143 BPM, like the classic slow is like whatever it is, it's slow core. There's

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like a particular genre of German bass. Isn't there that's like really specifically like around

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143. I'm not too sure, but you know, it'll be on the lower side. So, you know, I think you can call

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it trans, you know, that's progressive trans something like that. I know these from, I'm

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actually, I have no clue about the genres that I listen to. I can't differentiate between genres,

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but at the same time, you know, I see these on,

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yeah, I see these on DI.fm and uh, yeah, that's where you have side chills, IBA and so on so forth.

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So these are some of the stations that I listen to. Yeah.

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I used to work next to two of the funniest programs I've ever sort of worked with around

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a desk. One of them used to listen to huge amounts of uplift, uh, uplifting trance.

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There's like a sub genre of trance. He used to make it himself and he was actually pretty

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too fair. He was actually pretty good at it. Like it was really my thing, but um,

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the funniest was there was a guy I used to work with who was really into Soka and he'd just come

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in every day. He was probably the one of the best programmers I've, top two, top three programmers I

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ever worked with. And he's come in every day, just smashed down sweets, like packets of sweets.

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He'd just have like a pile of them on his desk. He's skinny as a rake somehow, but just like,

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just chain eats sweets all day. Double espresso is constantly, every time he ran out, he would go

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back out and get another one and just Soka with like, you know, how it has like all the air horns.

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So all you can, you can really hear anything other than like a continuous like beat all day long

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that was quite similar. And then like just periodic air horns throughout the day. Uh,

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but he was just an incredible programmer. But it was just really, really surreal. Just like kind

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of having this constant ear, ear, ear next to you all day long. And it just like leaked out of his

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headphones. But yeah, Chulzi, how about you? I feel kind of soft core compared to you guys.

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My go to is actually a lo-fi Nintendo track playlist on YouTube. It's like, you know,

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Legend of Zelda or Mario kind of turned kind of a little bit techno. And then I just listened to

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that basically on repeat. And it's the same thing for you is it to kind of set an nostalgia point

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while also engaging you into like some sort of consistent rhythm? Or should we? I have a mental

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image of like every time that, you know, fail to compile as like the guy going down the tube.

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That's not too far off. Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, nice. Javi, how about you?

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I mean, Mongolian throat singing. You know, that's just really good. And then that sort of leads into

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like didgeridoo, which is like, that's my shit. And then, you know, some ABBA.

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I kind of thought you were trolling then. I was like, I was like, definitely trolling. Yeah,

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completely legit. The whole thing was a troll. I mostly listen to the noise canceling on my headphones

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because of what noise? Lock out all the screaming that's happening behind me.

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I have six children. And so it's always there. It's a party. It's always a party.

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So what noise is it to go to? Yeah, well, I prefer a Gaussian noise. I feel like white noise

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puts race into it. And you know, it's not me, but I get it. You're Australian. So

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Javi, I don't really know you, but I can imagine you have a non-account on Twitter. That's just a

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total troll. Popmos. And only one, only one, not 10.

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That means you have 10. I love people that have entire conversations with themselves

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between their troll accounts. Like Javi and Popmos. Yeah, exactly. Javi and Popmos.

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So the only didgeridoo fact I've got, right, because I've got a bullshit fact about everything,

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right, is that speaking of Australian progressive rock bands, the really loud synth-like sound at

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the beginning of change that goes through the entire track is actually a didgeridoo. I didn't

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realise until I saw a live recording, they did a live show during lockdown. And then this guy on

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stage with a didgeridoo just like smashing out like a mic'd up didgeridoo. And it's like, holy

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shit, that's why it sounds like it's massive bass synths. It's whack-off didgeridoo going through

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the entire track. It's like drowning out every other instrument. It's really fucking cool. I was

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like, yeah. So in Australia, when we have conferences and balls and stuff like that,

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it's pretty common nowadays to do like a welcome to country, like from the traditional owners.

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So whoever the tribe was for that particular area that the event is on, they have like a welcome to

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country, which is like welcome to our spot, our land by like traditional owners. And a lot of

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times that involves like a bit of a didgeridoo performance. And there's some pretty cool dig

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out there, man. I actually enjoy listening to it. It's like a really surprising, like, I mean,

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okay, that sounds really patronizing, but like, if you've ever played a didgeridoo as somebody

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who is obviously rubbish at it, you're like, oh, right, okay, you can make noise with it. It sounds

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kind of cool. Where do I go from here? And then you see somebody who can actually play it. And

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you're like, wow, this is actually a really expressive instrument that I'm, I mean, but you

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know, that's just, I guess, arrogance is like you can play the guitar. So you pick up a didgeridoo

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and you're like, obviously, I'm going to rock at this. And then you can make one noise and you're

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like, yeah, yeah, cool noise. But one thing that's like, I don't know if it's because I live in

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Australia and we associate it so much with like country and traditional owners. But like, when I

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hear it, it makes me feel like I'm actually out in the country. If that makes any sense, like I've

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spent a lot of time on property when I was younger growing up and end out in the, it's more of the

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Pilbara like area of Western Australia than the Red Desert. It makes me feel like I'm there. I don't

301
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know why it is, but yeah, certainly makes me nostalgic of it when I hear it. So I don't know

302
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if that's what it's supposed to do, but it certainly transports me if that makes any sense.

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True Australian, true Australian. That must be it. I can't say I don't know. I've thought that

304
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must be an Australian. You don't feel like you're in the Red Desert when you hear a DigiDigit do?

305
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But I've not been to the Red Desert. So maybe it's one of those things.

306
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Maybe if you've been there, it makes sense. Anyway, should we talk about NFTs?

307
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,880
Yeah, actually, I was going to say we can segue and someone should make an NFT collection of

308
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DigiDigit sound track. Well, okay. So maybe no. We've got a bunch of questions about NFTs, right?

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And stuff here. But as somebody mentioned, this is quite formless. We kind of just like having a

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bit of a chat. And hey, it's Yussepa. All right. In a rocking chair. Play the music.

311
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That's a pretty good wide up. Yussepa's just in a rocking chair.

312
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But so obviously, there's a lot of preconceptions about what NFTs are. And joking, obviously,

313
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you're having a bit of a wind up chain. I see you're jerking my chain here. You're saying,

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what if you just made a bunch of DigiDis NFT collection that's all laugh at the fray?

315
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But also, what if you did actually record lots and lots and lots of different...

316
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Because obviously, like every instrument, presumably DigiDis have a character of their own,

317
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right? So you could do some kind of collection of different types, different whatever. But that

318
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would require, like, I guess, an audio NFT, right? Or something like that. What do you think about

319
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those... What do you think about different genres of NFT? What do you think about different medias?

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And what do you think... It's both sister and Shane. What do you think that we're going to see

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as people start to go like, oh, maybe these are... Is that a different thing to a collectible,

322
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like a lot of NFTs are now? Or is that... What are the limits of those multimedia NFTs? And what

323
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are the ideas that... What are the low hanging fruit that haven't been explored in that area?

324
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Like the... Well, I mean, NFTs right now are still kind of in their toy phase, right? And

325
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the generative projects, the PFPs, that's the kind of stuff that people like. But the way I see it is

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that when Ethereum first launched, it was just like all the tokens were just like a bunch of shit

327
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coins, right? And I'm not saying that generative projects are like the shit coins of NFTs, but

328
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I think a lot of them will end up doing that. But right now, if you're like a musician, you buy

329
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like VSTs and you buy different sound packs and stuff like that, right? Those could be NFTs at some

330
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point. And then if you're the creator, you can make all the royalties from it directly without

331
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having to go through any, you know, intermediary, right? So I think that stuff is coming. I think

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anything that is non-fungible in digital form will be published as an NFT at some point.

333
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So it's just a matter of time. In relation to like, you know, music, NFTs, right? Or like

334
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audio NFTs. I know that OmniFlix has audio NFTs at the moment on their platform. I don't think

335
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I've seen anything like that on Stargaze yet, Shane. But do either of you guys see like a future

336
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where, for example, like, you know, artists might be able to license sampling and stuff like that

337
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through NFTs instead of actually just buying them, like being able to license content for use in,

338
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,280
you know, podcasts and that type of, you know, media production?

339
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:14,560
Yeah. Yeah, I'll take this. Yes, definitely. Because, you know, it is a natural logical

340
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progression of how distribution happens. So right now we're utilizing StreamYard and YouTube.

341
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And in an ideal future, we won't need the artist to actually sell anything. They'll just license

342
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out everything. And these will be derivative NFTs or these can be any form. So, you know, here,

343
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like, you know, just going back to Frase question, right? Yeah, NFT is a primitive. I think Shane,

344
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you mentioned that earlier too. And, you know, just like how we have fungible tokens, you know,

345
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NFTs are these non fungible primitives that exist on a ledger, you know, on a trustless ledger and

346
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so on and so forth. And media NFTs in that sense are like the first set of NFTs. And, you know,

347
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it's like the playground, right? Like you have toys in the playground. This is like the first

348
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phase of experimentation. If you see all the new age tech that has been developed, it has in some

349
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sense been developed through through you through its use in media. It's not because we are working

350
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on those that you know, I'm sharing that fact. But when we look at it, right, like even Apple

351
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computer, you know, Apple ones and twos, you know, they were out of desktop publishing, you know,

352
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they were they started off with the most basic things. And that's when they want to be something

353
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super smart and so on so forth. So media in that sense, alters an opportunity, a zone where you

354
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can fail. And you know, even if you fail, the risk is that people might not view content or

355
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something like that might happen. But when in this case, like with blockchain and NFTs, we are

356
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combining as a financial aspect to that element of media as well. So trans media, multimedia,

357
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,160
you know, these NFTs will definitely, you know, we can see that even now. So there might be a

358
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,400
song that can be used as an access pass or something like that. And, you know, eventually,

359
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:08,720
yeah, there might be our NFTs and songs of this one. So yeah, multimedia NFTs will be there in

360
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the future. Right now, it's only text audio video images that are being experimented with.

361
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,600
So I'm going to throw another thing out there. And I'm just going to keep throwing ideas out here

362
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:28,960
today because I'm an ideas man, as you both know. So I can see a world where in terms of like licensing

363
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and, you know, on chain licensing and NFTs and stuff where, for example, like we have news websites

364
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where you sort of lease an NFT as access like through Web 3 so that you and I know you know

365
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,440
what I'm talking about when I say this, Cisla, where you like stream payment

366
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over time. So you can either have the subscription or not have the subscription just by subscribing

367
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to it on chain and then using your Web 3 wallet, get access to like websites and stuff like that.

368
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Because I know in the past, like XRP have experimented with this like years and years ago

369
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about streaming payment for Web 3 while actually consuming content in web pages, which was pretty

370
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cool back then. I'm not sure if they're still doing that. I sort of lost touch with their

371
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development. But does that seem like something that's feasible and something we would likely

372
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see in the next couple of years? Any of you guys working on something like that?

373
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:39,120
I mean, I think you're getting at like lending and borrowing of NFTs, right? And integration

374
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:44,400
with NFTs and DeFi is definitely going to happen. And lending and borrowing is just kind of a

375
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:50,880
primitive that's going to enable stuff like this. And just because all the data is on chain,

376
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:59,120
everything is trackable. You can have all kinds of metadata on IPFS. There's just a lot more clarity

377
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:08,960
around like sharing of these assets. Yeah. And yeah, just to add to that, right? Like even in

378
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,440
this case, like we had like six people and there are how many people that are watching? I don't know

379
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:22,320
if they are. We have four. So, let's just say we have thousands of people that are watching and

380
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:27,840
each of them, they want to maybe incentivize us or just donate, right? Like they can start to

381
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stream money. That's programmable money in that sense. And if that is like many to one

382
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,880
from a creator standpoint, like creators receiving the money, we have say a Coke or

383
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:46,720
a Quava that can drop tokens for everyone that's listening. That's like one to many from the

384
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creator to the audience that are consuming this content. So distribution in that sense,

385
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:56,800
like the newspaper example that you mentioned, yes, 100% we believed that'll happen. In some

386
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:02,160
sense, we've worked on that, but we've tested that framework and so on and so forth. But

387
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:09,040
yeah, that is definitely future that we see potentially with distribution.

388
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:19,680
Okay. So yeah, like that is one. And the other part is, yes, NFTs are being used as access for

389
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,240
communities, main discards and so on. So forth. Eventually we'll see a lot more subscriptions

390
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:30,080
that turn into NFTs. So just having that NFT will give you access to the platform, maybe as a beta

391
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:35,760
tester, maybe someone with exclusive access. So we'll see more of these happening rather than

392
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,480
the urgent use case of maybe going towards streaming payments, but definitely streaming

393
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,760
payments will happen. We've seen, yeah, Cosmos and contracts as well. We've seen Cosmos based

394
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:52,720
modules as well around that. And yeah, it is very helpful. Even in a case where let's say there is

395
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:58,800
a doctor or a lawyer and you operate in a trustless sense, you just go to website click and start to

396
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:05,680
talk, interact, consult and you pay. There's a trustless payment aspect of it. So this is quite

397
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:13,440
possible. Yeah. I think so sort of following on from that in terms of the web applications,

398
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,920
we haven't really seen enough development in web-free wallets to be able to sort of follow

399
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:28,480
that development path yet, have we? Does anyone know if there's foundation funding or funding

400
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:39,120
from any public, you know, like DAOs for this type of web-free wallet integrations or are we sort of

401
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:46,960
relying on the likes of Kepler to just pick this up at some point and roll with it? Well, so actually,

402
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,560
Osmosis just came out with a grant program that directs towards Kepler specifically around

403
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:58,960
development around it, putting on custom RPCs, things like that. So I guess in that sense, yes

404
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,600
and yes, yes, there's foundation money going towards it and yes for waiting for Kepler.

405
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,160
Yeah, they're opening the door for you to self develop.

406
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,680
So right now Kepler has Stargaze support in their app. They have a Stargaze app in the Kepler app.

407
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,880
Like we didn't even ask them to do it or anything like that. It's just, they just,

408
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:27,440
they just wanted to do it, I guess. But we are, we have the streaming dev fund on chain that we're

409
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:36,560
going to direct some of the funds to like hackathons and bounties and stuff like that and would

410
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:43,680
gladly fund, you know, any other wallet projects. Yeah, I don't know. Like in terms of wallets,

411
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:51,040
there really is that like obviously the major one is Kepler. I would like to see a competitor come

412
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,600
up in the space, you know, just to keep everyone on their toes and keep developing hard so no one

413
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,880
gets comfortable. I don't know how feasible it is. Everyone seems to be, you know, on the,

414
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,640
on the Kepler train, but I mean, surely there's space for another one that has to be and I think

415
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:12,400
competition in the space is key to driving development. I think I never see a winter really.

416
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:18,880
Like I think the reality is a lot of the, the way incentives are constituted in the space is that

417
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:26,320
the money, it's not necessarily smart money to go after building a wallet. However, you know, if

418
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:34,800
the market cooled down a lot, which maybe it's doing now for a bit, maybe it will go back up

419
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,600
again next week or go around in circles or go side to side. Who knows, right? But

420
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,960
it's got me forward slash price underscore chat, mate.

421
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:49,760
Yeah, sorry. This isn't price chat, is it? We'll do the price chat episode in future,

422
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,720
right? And then we can put all of our wild theories out there. But I think in the current

423
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market, like if you have a dev team who understand the space and could build a wallet, there are

424
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,520
other more profitable avenues to be exploring, right? And I think that's the, that's kind of the

425
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:12,000
problem of the wallet situation. I mean, so for, we've directly, so first of all, when, you know,

426
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:18,080
like the name service stuff that I did, you know, with one or two other people really,

427
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,280
obviously the first version of that took about five minutes back in Lisbon. I think, I think

428
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,240
Shane was actually around the table when I was like, hang on a minute. Why does nobody build an NFT,

429
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,800
a name service that's just an NFT? And it was like about two minutes later, I had a proof of

430
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:38,720
concept of it. That's like, okay, cool. Now this requires like wallet integration and like 100

431
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,440
other things, right? To make it like fully realized. And it's that huge gap between

432
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,040
that initial idea, I think, where a lot of teams get to and then like all of the other things where

433
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:54,720
you basically realize that wallet integration is like the end user feature that would be amazing.

434
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,760
But you're not going to make any money from building that. And if anything, somebody will

435
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:06,400
vampire attack you, right? Well, I mean, MetaMask makes a lot of money by integrating swaps

436
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:13,600
inside MetaMask and they take a little bit of the fee. So I think Cosmos, I think the ecosystem is

437
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:19,120
just a little bit earlier. I think, you know, at some point, there'll be maybe another contender

438
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,240
for wallet and, you know, maybe Kepler might even integrate Osmosis and maybe another wallet might

439
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:29,600
come in and integrate another Dex and start taking fees. That's probably the way to do it.

440
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:37,920
So this was going into, there are obviously other projects that we've like, working on now with

441
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:43,680
other people as well, mainly smart contract based. And commonly, where as soon as you start doing

442
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,960
lots and lots of Cosmos stuff, you start wanting much deeper integration with Cosmos and smart

443
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:55,200
contracts. And very quickly, you also realize that this might be a wallet problem. This isn't

444
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,120
just like a DAP you're building, it might actually be better suited to be a wallet, right?

445
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,800
And then you go, okay, so are we really going to sit down here and build a wallet? Is that really

446
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,320
what's going to make, is that what we want to do for the next six months of our lives, right?

447
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:13,040
And the answer is no, not in the current situation because there's so many other things to focus on.

448
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,160
And probably this problem will still be there in six months because nobody will have

449
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:23,360
solved it by then. I mean, I think it makes sense for a validator to build a wallet,

450
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:29,680
because then they can just use that validator as a default one for all the services that they use.

451
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:34,640
And that would make them really popular. Maybe that's what Popmos is. Maybe that's what we should

452
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,840
have asked Gabby while he was still here. Maybe that's what Popmos would be. It would be a wallet.

453
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,000
I like the Cosmos station wallet, that's what it does, right?

454
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,040
I just want to say that. Yeah, that's what Cosmos station does. Yeah.

455
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:53,200
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, the e-moss model is pretty good in that sense, where they're directing some,

456
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,800
part of the inflation to developers, right? People that deploy the apps. So just like that,

457
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:06,080
if there is a possibility. So we've thought of a case where in future, if there is a possibility to

458
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:14,640
maybe split a small fee from the transaction fee to wallets that are actually going ahead and

459
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:20,240
initiating these transactions, that'd be great. But right now, we don't have means for that.

460
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:25,680
And it's like a flat funding at this point in time. But definitely that is the future.

461
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:32,320
Right? Like when we built in sync or the staking interface, it almost became a wallet.

462
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:37,280
Like except for the send, if you notice, like just the send part is not there. Otherwise,

463
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:43,840
everything else is there. So you could technically use Kepler to connect. And yeah, send was like,

464
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,240
it was too easy to integrate. But we just chose not to integrate because with send,

465
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:52,560
we'll have like a lot more things. You know, we'll have to integrate coin gecko, the price,

466
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:58,640
APRs, XYZ, everything. And we have Kepler doing that. So, you know, we intentionally avoided the

467
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:05,200
send button. And honestly, yeah, the lack of funding is another reason. Like we built that tool

468
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,960
because we were afraid that we might not be integrated anywhere. And, you know, we had to

469
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:17,600
have an interface for our chain. Like that was the first thought. But eventually, it helped

470
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:23,200
multiple other chains. And we're very happy with that. And but, you know, except for our delegation,

471
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,920
you know, like June, you know, we received that on Stargate, SCOMDEX, except for the delegation

472
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,640
grant, there's no actual money that's or like grants that are given directly, you know, for

473
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:39,840
building such tools. Like, yeah, we definitely got a grant from Juno. But yeah, that was about it.

474
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,800
So there's no true funding in that sense. So yeah, the model of funding, it is broken. But

475
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,920
technically, something can be achieved where you know, anyone that actually goes ahead and initiates

476
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,320
a transaction from a specific wallet can, you know, the wallet can actually the client can

477
00:37:54,320 --> 00:38:00,400
actually take a buck. It'll be great. So I think this this segue is into something I want to

478
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,400
talk about, especially because we've got both of you here, which is that, you know, we're talking

479
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:11,120
about now wallets and stuff and how end users sort of interact with things. Obviously, interchain

480
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,320
accounts are coming along now. So that's like one thing which I'm very interested to hear, like both

481
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,920
of you, both of your opinions on like how the stuff that we're starting to see like new primitives

482
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:28,880
for chains talking to each other, I guess, is going to change, you know, how useful these things

483
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:34,320
are to the end user, how ergonomic they are to end user and also like how you guys see each other

484
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,400
kind of in terms of interop and working together and, you know, standards and all that sort of

485
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:44,720
stuff as well because you know, IBC NFTs is still, you know, the spec is, I feel like that got merged

486
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:51,360
literally the other day. But like, you know, you guys obviously literally work together. And I think

487
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,600
in maybe a more traditional space, you'd be seeing as like much more kind of competitors, right?

488
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,680
So I'm kind of really interested to what you guys think about these new primitives that are coming

489
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:07,520
along and what it means for interop and whatnot in the future, you know? Yeah, I'm super excited

490
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:16,000
about interchain accounts. You can have like a DAO control another chain and after a governance

491
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:22,000
vote passes, something else happens in another chain. That's super cool. One thing we're going to use

492
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:30,720
it for is to do make the onboarding easier. So you can do, for example, a swap on another chain and

493
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:36,240
then just kind of, you know, swap into the native currency for your chain. It's going to be super

494
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:45,680
easy. But in terms of, so ICS-1021, the whole like IBC NFT thing is a completely different thing,

495
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,960
right? We actually had a meeting this morning about kind of kind of syncing up with that.

496
00:39:52,960 --> 00:40:01,040
Yeah, I wasn't aware that the standard was merged, but it was it's pretty much almost done. And I think

497
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:08,240
what was I think, I think, just like you guys have like a SDK version of it. And we are working on a

498
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:13,840
CosmWallet version of it. And, you know, the good thing is that it's a protocol. So a protocol is

499
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:21,760
language agnostic, right? So even if it's on CosmWallet or on the SDK side, it should still work

500
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:29,840
because what you're just doing is transferring like the token ID and the URI. And you have this like

501
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:37,200
class ID that's like the identifier for the source chain. And then you like mint the synthetic NFT

502
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:46,000
on your side. So yeah, after we get all that built, we can have NFTs flying around the Cosmverse.

503
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:51,120
Oh, man, that's awesome. That was a big question of mine is the interrupt between

504
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:56,880
the SDK, because I was just talking to Cicela about that the other day, the SDK, because there's

505
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:04,000
runs on an SDK version. And then yeah, all the, you know, the Wazam versions of NFTs. So

506
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,080
man, that's great news, the fact that they're going to be able to interrupt things.

507
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,560
So what is it? So being layman, what does that actually mean? Does that mean the ability to

508
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:18,080
transfer? Does that mean that you could have a marketplace that you could sell across chains?

509
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,480
Like what does that actually enable? Yeah, so it means that like, you know,

510
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,520
someone can mint an NFT on OmniFlex and then transfer it to the marketplace on Stargaze,

511
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:34,880
or someone could mint an NFT on Stargaze and send it to OmniFlex to their marketplace. So,

512
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:39,680
you know, if one chain provides a unique feature that the other doesn't, then someone might want

513
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,480
to transfer the NFT over. So you could post something for sale on both, for example,

514
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,880
is that kind of what that means? Yeah, well, I don't know if it's the same NFT or you can post

515
00:41:50,880 --> 00:42:02,720
on both. But yeah, that's a whole kind of one. There was also a question of addressability,

516
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:07,040
isn't there? Because that's something that we've had the question where, you know,

517
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,440
because there's like, I don't know, 10,000 people or whatever use that bought names with the name

518
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,800
service on Juno, they're like, okay, well, am I going to be able to use this with Stargaze?

519
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:23,200
You know, am I going to be able to use this on other chains? And use this obviously means a

520
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,520
lot of different things to a lot of different people. You know, the most simple version of

521
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:32,880
can I use something to dereference my wallet address is, yes, it's about 32 and you throw

522
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:39,680
anything at it and it will, you know, just return the Juno equivalent, right? That's super simple.

523
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:47,040
But when people when people mean will it interrupt with NFT standards and other chains in an agnostic way?

524
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,680
Hard to say we're at a pretty early point. But like, yeah, what if you what if you can then

525
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:57,920
essentially make a fake derivative of it by granting a permission to it on two different chains? Like,

526
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,040
it's going to be quite interesting to see how those kinds of conditions like actually

527
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:07,280
thrash out in the wild because that if again, with with tokens, it's pretty obvious, right?

528
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,480
Because your balance is your balance, you send them to another train, they're in the

529
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:16,720
native bank module, right? But there's a lot of very interesting things involved in things that

530
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:22,000
are nominally unique being moved to another chain and then having a new derivative version of themselves,

531
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,800
right? Because then you run into the IPC problem of them moving it back to the source chain.

532
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,800
It's sort of no longer the same thing, is it? And I think that question of addressability

533
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,920
is really interesting to me. Like, I'm not certain there aren't many good ways of doing it,

534
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:43,040
right? That's the problem. But maybe, maybe it's one of my concerns with IBC in general is like,

535
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:48,320
how addressability works in IBC. And I wonder if NFTs are the thing that really might expose

536
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:55,040
some questions about that. I don't know if you guys have, you might feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

537
00:43:55,040 --> 00:44:01,200
But no, that's, that's actually right. Like the in the earlier calls, we were discussing a case where

538
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:08,880
what if we bring NFTs from one channel and that channel is closed? And what do you do with that?

539
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:14,000
Like, do you, and how do you take the NFTs back to the source chain? If it were fungible,

540
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,000
it would have been a different story because these are unique assets, right? Like, there's,

541
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,000
there's the source chain that you'll have to store the same as the case, you know, even if we try to

542
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,800
connect with say an ebmos, right? And you know, there's a, there's an Ethereum NFT that entered

543
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,080
ebmos. That is again different from an NFT that entered through gravity. You know, I think this

544
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:38,080
has been discussed quite a lot of times. So if there's a punk that's from gravity, goes to Star

545
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:43,360
Gaze and comes to Omniflix, that's different. You know, when it goes from gravity to Omniflix

546
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:48,000
to Star Gaze, that's a completely different NFT. So, you know, the value of it might,

547
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:53,040
might differ as well based on the channel. And even now, like we see on Ethereum, just like

548
00:44:53,040 --> 00:45:00,080
assets that, you know, that are just copy paste, that, you know, just copy the punk IDs and so on,

549
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:05,440
so forth. And then they create, you know, representative assets and they move things around.

550
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:13,680
So to an extent that, you know, that reference to the source is, you know, best observed on the

551
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,640
chain for people that can figure it out. But, you know, there's a, there's multiple layers of

552
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:25,360
abstraction, I think, user experience wise, just like how we are seeing the osmosis bridge

553
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,800
decision and fungible token, like this is in fungible tokens, right? Fungibles will take some time. Yeah.

554
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:39,120
Yeah, it's kind of at the top. Go ahead. No, no, no, I was going to say this is, this is the diamond

555
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:45,520
problem in IBC where you're like transferring from chain A to chain B to chain C. And then you kind

556
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,960
of have to go back the same path. And if you don't go back the same paths, it's not fungible the same

557
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:58,640
way. Yeah. So I think that's what we're going to say, Shalti. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean,

558
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,520
this is kind of the conversation around the Cosmos Hub region that came from, right? Where in theory,

559
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,360
everything should have been directed through the Cosmos Hub and then go from there. So that's their

560
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:13,280
way. There was just that single source of truth. Hope we haven't taken that path. We've kind of taken

561
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:21,920
the spider's web path as opposed to the hub path. Right. But this has been solved once before, right?

562
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:28,800
Because we had the World Wide Web where uniqueness was required from heterogeneous servers running

563
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:36,720
software to serve web pages and serve resources. And actually, of course, in the case of linked

564
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:44,080
data to serve federated data resources that should be able to call each other. And the URI was

565
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:53,440
the design for that that I think is easy to forget how despite its kind of clunkiness and

566
00:46:53,440 --> 00:47:01,760
ubiquitousness, how elegant a solution to the problem the URI is and how it's served the job

567
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:09,920
pretty well. But the necessity of the design for IBC, as I understand it, has somebody who is not

568
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:18,480
super technically in the weeds of that design. It's the design of the relays and the channels

569
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:27,840
that causes the issue, right? Where the addressability of a resource is fundamentally tied

570
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:36,080
to its state as it moved around, right? Because resources aren't immutable, which in Web2,

571
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:42,720
a resource is immutable. It's either there or it's 404, right? So, is this something that we

572
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:47,280
should be looking at new primitives for? Now we have NFTs that are going to be moving between

573
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:53,760
chains and they might be potentially incredibly valuable. Is this a point to say, okay, we have

574
00:47:53,760 --> 00:48:00,160
two different paths here, maybe we can take a look at whether or not these resources should be

575
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,480
have their state mutated by the channel they're sent on or whether they

576
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,520
would make more sense to make them globally unique at the point of creation and then

577
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:16,480
go from there? Maybe the same NFT mint on Stargaze, no matter what chain you eventually land on,

578
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:22,960
it has Stargaze, then the contract address, then the name of the token or something like that. It

579
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:30,880
has some kind of creation metadata that then always identifies it as that thing, I don't know.

580
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:37,680
You know, I think one thing would be really interesting is when shared security is a thing,

581
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:46,480
right? Then would security be normalized between more of the chains? And if that's the case, then

582
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:55,040
that would kind of change the fungibility of the routes for IBC. So that'll be interesting to see

583
00:48:55,040 --> 00:49:01,600
if that happens or not. But right now in the worldwide web, it doesn't matter what route you

584
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:10,080
take. There isn't a security guarantee for each route. But in IBC, there is. So it's just fundamentally

585
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:16,800
a different problem and it's really hard to solve it. So right now, the easiest way to do it is

586
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:24,400
like if Stargaze gets an NFT from Gravity Bridge, for example, and then you just have to make sure

587
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:32,000
that you always send it back without going to another chain. So I think I've been talking to

588
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:38,240
people about this a while ago when the web of accounts and channels became apparent.

589
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:49,760
And I think you can address it at least on a UX UI level and having a bit of a standard around

590
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:58,320
a uniform UX UI so that we have situations where everybody is doing a similar thing.

591
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:07,840
Like for example, Osmosis has the deposit withdrawal and it's purposefully back to and from the original

592
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:16,880
chain and the same with JunoSwap. And I'm not sure about SIF chain or other ones, but sort of

593
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:22,640
having an understanding of what can happen if you don't do that and addressing that on a UI UX level

594
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:29,840
can really reduce the spaghetti as long as everybody toes the line and does the same thing. But

595
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:37,360
what happens, I guess it's the same question for tokens, right? So what happens if a bunch of

596
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:46,000
NFTs get sent from OmniFlex to Stargaze, right? And then OmniFlex disappears or vice versa?

597
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:55,360
They'll stay on Stargaze, right? If OmniFlex goes down, definitely there'll be more valuable or

598
00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:00,160
less valuable on Stargaze. There'll be the representative assets. Even now, right? Like we

599
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:06,240
thought of a case, you know, best case scenario is when someone actually buys Atom on Osmosis

600
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:12,480
and sends them directly to OmniFlex. But that's not possible right now because that is a different

601
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:18,480
channel. The Atom on Osmosis is a different channel and comes if it goes to OmniFlex,

602
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:23,440
it's a different token altogether, right? So even on OmniFlex, we have the deposit withdrawal

603
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:30,000
function. It has to go back to the same account, right? So that, yeah, it has been challenging in

604
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:37,200
that sense. But yeah, definitely if either of our chains go down like one of it and the other stays,

605
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:42,160
right? These are assets that will continue to stay on the other chain. You know, with maybe the

606
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:48,240
source chain, you know, identify intact. I will just say Stargaze, contract ID, token ID,

607
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:54,880
yeah, the token ID and vice versa. Because I mean,

608
00:51:54,880 --> 00:52:00,880
it doesn't have like any, you know, there's no elevated right to do something to a

609
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:07,920
NFT than what a normal user account is, right? So it can't like, you know, transform it or anything

610
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:14,640
like that. So when you send an NFT from one chain to the other, and I know we're not really doing

611
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:19,520
this yet, but is it likely that it'll just work the same as a token that it just gets put in some

612
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:25,360
sort of escrow on the source chain, and then yeah, it comes in the destination chain. And then when

613
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:31,360
you send it back, it pretty much just nukes the synthetic and then unlocks the NFT on the source.

614
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:38,480
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's just how it works. But the other interesting thing about NFTs is that

615
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:45,920
most of the, all the data is stored on IPFS, or at least it should be stored on IPFS, right? So

616
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,240
the data is always accessible. It's just that, you know, if another chain goes down or whatever,

617
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:55,840
it's just the record that is going to be different. Well, hang on a minute, Shay.

618
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:00,400
Which is the more, that's the more important thing though, but yeah.

619
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,560
Well, hang on a minute, should be stored on IPFS.

620
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:17,680
Well, I'm very, very, very heavily standing the Cosmoise and Monchain metadata standard.

621
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:22,320
Like it's at the core of kind of like a lot of the projects we're working on at the moment.

622
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:29,600
You know, Cosmoise gas fees are low enough that you can store data on chain. You can use

623
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:34,160
iterators in Rust or whatever to start behaving like you're interacting with a no SQL database,

624
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:39,280
and you can eliminate some of the mutability problems that people have kind of shown and

625
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,920
demonstrated with NFTs in other places. Now, obviously, mutability might not be a problem

626
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:49,120
if you're using that for creative reasons, artistic reasons, whatever. Like it can be a feature, not

627
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:58,480
a bug. But that's the thing. Should we be saying, oh yeah, sure, it's totally cool that IPFS is

628
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,800
how we do things, and that's how it should work in the future. Or should we be moving to a future

629
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:09,600
where we are putting more of that data on chain? Yeah, like right now we are putting the metadata

630
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:16,720
on the chain directly. And you know, the media file aspect is being stored on IPFS. So yeah,

631
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:19,920
these are different approaches. But you know, in our case, if you look at it,

632
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:27,680
you know, it's someone actually renting space forever on the chain without by just paying

633
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:33,520
the transaction fee. And it is the validators and the storage node horse and everyone else that

634
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:39,600
will have to bear all these costs, you know, in perpetuating. So this is in some sense,

635
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,040
a decent model, not a great model, but maybe may not be the

636
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:57,360
yeah, is like a baby step in the direction of storing data that's mutable or immutable

637
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,440
on the chain directly and using that as a reference. So this is when we believe

638
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:06,160
interchange accounts and you know, some of the other aspects around interchange accounts will

639
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:11,680
come into play where you know, there might be specific data stored on a specific chain. So and

640
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:16,320
probably this is how cost-consul will scale to, you know, like with all the zones, right, like

641
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:22,480
some zones actually store that data, you know, on the chain, you know, some might not some might

642
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:28,800
use other ways to actually mutate that data. Like if you ask me in like personally what I believe,

643
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:34,880
the JPEG or the PNG should be an SVG and that should be stored on the chain. But at what expense,

644
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:42,000
like what joy, right? So, you know, that yeah, these are the questions. Even an SPG, it has to be

645
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:48,000
below 10 kb, right? Or so that's at least we cause them. Anyway, that's kind of the most you can

646
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:54,480
really get away with storing on chain and that the gas is not cheap. You begin to get into like,

647
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:00,640
you know, but but you know, again, maybe this is a the question is if this is a

648
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:08,560
but then, you know, it's even back to like, no matter what database technology you're using,

649
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:12,880
that binary data for that image is not going to go in the database, right? It's going to go

650
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:18,800
even in traditional web world, you'd throw in an S3 bucket or you know, a file server or whatever,

651
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:24,240
you you typically do have your database storing your file metadata than your file elsewhere.

652
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:30,320
Which I guess begs the question of whether it's actually a problem of incentives, right? Which

653
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:37,120
then becomes about like, like you just said, Sysla, it's quite cheap to store in perpetuity for what

654
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:42,880
it is. If it is in fact storing in perpetuity, the validator set of bearing the cost of that, right?

655
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:49,600
And there are projects like Rweave, the, you know, Filecoin, Cacoin, there are other projects that

656
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:54,000
have kind of grappled with this in the past already in web three, whether or not any of them have come

657
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:59,760
to a good conclusion on it. We're too early to tell almost, aren't we, right? I mean, they're doing

658
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:05,920
great, at least for now, they're they're they are powering a lot of the info. So in some sense,

659
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,640
that's fine. But yeah, definitely, there'll be better incentivization models, as you said,

660
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:16,720
more than the aspect of this changing radically fundamentally, right? Like these will be separate,

661
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:21,760
the metadata and the media file maybe. But yeah, who stores that and, you know, how are

662
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:27,600
incentives structured? And in this, in this IBC world, and even with bridges and everything else,

663
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:32,400
if you mint something on Netflix, and it moves to Stargaze, and it's transferred via

664
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,400
Gravity Bridge or something else, even if we had storage nodes, and we built a storage

665
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:42,640
node network around that, that NFT might disappear. And there might be a thousand transactions on a

666
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:48,240
chain that that those validators or those storage nodes receive no compensation for us, right? Like

667
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:52,480
as we move forward, like so, depending on where that's being traded, or what how that's being used,

668
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:58,400
or even licensed, if that's if that's if that's home to an omnifix, and that transfers out,

669
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:03,280
and then Gravity Bridge, it's licensed, and then you have a million transactions that somebody's

670
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:10,080
getting royalties off of off an MP3 song. Yeah, that's very difficult. There's really no way to

671
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:14,080
bring that back, right? There's no fee structure to kind of bring that back to the people or the

672
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:18,320
individuals or the organizations that are supporting that that transfers that, right? And I think in

673
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:22,160
the grand scheme of things, you hope that it works out, right? You hope that there's just as many

674
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,240
leaving as risk coming in, and you know, all those types of things. But but that's I think that's

675
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:31,920
kind of a concern, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I think in the context of IBC, it's just a lot simpler

676
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:38,640
to have the NFT being just like a pointer to the actual data. And it's just it's just simpler in

677
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:45,200
the context of IBC to have as much as the data like off chain as possible, because then when an NFT

678
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:51,360
moves to another chain, it could be more easily queried, you know, in just from one place, as

679
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:56,960
opposed to like querying a whole bunch of different chains to be able to like reconstitutes like

680
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:03,040
the NFT. So that data would have to be somewhat managed by either validate or set or something

681
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:08,320
else to make sure it doesn't change or that doesn't have to be somewhat managed in that sense.

682
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:16,800
So once it goes to IPFS, it's addressed to that right? And that's it. If it's an IPFS, yeah,

683
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:21,760
right. Yeah, I think outside of that, like a bit of something, some other. Well, I mean, you

684
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:28,160
like say, even even IPFS, I mean, there can be the storage node network, which is power,

685
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:35,440
which has nodes of IPFS and, you know, maybe CR and something else, and they can be curated

686
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:40,480
and incentivized by the networks. So, you know, yeah, what data you put on chain, what data you

687
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:48,320
put off chain is, but if we are utilizing the traditional IPFS services that are available

688
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:53,440
right now, yeah, that might be managed. That's actually managed storage, right? And they're

689
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:58,560
making sure it is delivered, you know, and available on demand in highly available. Yeah,

690
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:03,760
the availability is there. So, you know, you can maybe click on an IPFS link, it'll open up a video

691
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:09,600
will play, you get stream to you. Now that's the advantage. So with the storage node network,

692
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:15,200
that's not curated properly, that might not be distributed well, all this is like not possible.

693
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:20,560
Yeah, right. Actually, the fray we talked about this before where you can kind of like build

694
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:27,920
an IPFS pinning service, like on top of the valid validator set, right? So you can have like some

695
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:34,880
kind of incentive model for that. So there is potentially something being done. Yeah, maybe.

696
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:39,680
It would be right. I mean, yeah, to collaborate. So

697
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,960
there is maybe a top, not very secret project that I keep alluding to that's

698
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,960
doing something like that. But yeah, um,

699
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,920
phrase super cagey about anything he's working on ever.

700
01:00:55,040 --> 01:01:01,760
Yeah. Just I for literally no reason at all, just because I come from a pattern of power.

701
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:06,080
And do you know what? It's probably literally one of those things, you know, like Indian parents,

702
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:12,160
like if you get, if you show them homework, and then it's got even slight mistakes in it or

703
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:16,720
something, you just get so much shit. So it's, it's better to only bring your successes to the

704
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:22,320
table after the fact, you know, just like, if it's not a success, you just, you just, you just

705
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:26,480
destroy your grade card on the way home from school and just never mention it. You know,

706
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:31,520
you only bring, you only bring the meat to put on the table. Everything else forget about it.

707
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:36,880
You're getting thrown out of the house. You know, you're gone. So maybe that's why it's the cagey

708
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,640
about projects. I'm like, if this project fails, let's just, I don't even remember.

709
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,000
It happened. I don't remember those. I don't even know what you're talking about. I don't

710
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,520
remember those get commits. You know, maybe I had a beer. Who knows? You know, for six months,

711
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:51,200
maybe I had a few beers, worked on a project, didn't go anywhere. I don't know. You know,

712
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:58,080
we will get a bit crazy right sometimes. How are you, how are you proving though that the data

713
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:03,440
is still there? Like, how, like, how do you prove that a validator, you know, didn't like pin the

714
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:09,680
data, said they pinned the data and got like tokens for that or something. And then I can tell you

715
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:16,640
after this, there's no project to talk about. I don't know what you're talking about. But luckily,

716
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:22,800
a combination of, yeah, a combination of smart people plus the economics degree that I largely

717
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:29,760
snooze through have actually solved that one for me. I wanted to ask about copyright,

718
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,720
because obviously we talked about Royals quite a bit. It's something that foundationally has been

719
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:39,760
quite important, certainly to, to Stargaze in terms of like, you know, it is literally front

720
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:44,000
center in the UI when you look at projects that are launching and all of that sort of thing.

721
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:50,240
But obviously, royalties and copyright and what people are actually buying, I think is for maybe

722
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:54,880
people who are kind of aware of how copyright works and sort of artists and creators and whatnot

723
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:59,280
is quite an interesting issue. Like, what do you guys think about the question of what people are

724
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:04,000
actually buying when they buy an NFT, like with relation to ownership and copyright and that

725
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:09,600
sort of stuff? Do you think it matters? Do you think you need it?

726
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:17,440
Well, in our case, we just, you know, we handed over to the creators, you know, so they can choose

727
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:25,200
like whatever license they want. If it's like CC0 or any other license, they can put it in the

728
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:31,680
metadata. But I'm sure Cislah has like a more kind of a deeper answer here for this.

729
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:41,440
No, actually, we did our best to incorporate that. But yeah, a lot of the creators, you know,

730
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:46,160
they were, they didn't have specific copyrights that they were giving out, you know, they,

731
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:53,760
not a lot of them actually are aware. They're not too deep into copyright. They're not too deep

732
01:03:53,760 --> 01:04:00,720
into understanding the, maybe the business aspect of art creativity. So, you know, what can it lead

733
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:07,920
to later on is not something that, you know, many have thought of. So when it is a CC0 asset, right,

734
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:14,160
like, you know, maybe, yeah, there have been multiple examples of music being released in

735
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:19,360
as a CC0 asset. And that, that is like, it's fine, you know, people can do whatever they want.

736
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:25,440
But when it's original art, that's not declared as anything, that's still a problem. So, you know,

737
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:33,360
we mentioned that like, if there is, you know, yeah, if there is no license in some sense, right,

738
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:39,600
it will become CC0. But, you know, we didn't have like great support for that. So, you know, we,

739
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:45,520
we had to educate people on the licensing part. So we are next, like in the next phase of

740
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:51,280
means and creators that we are onboarding, we want them to have a metadata field that will say,

741
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:55,840
you know, licensing, and it'll have to have something associated with it, even if it's just

742
01:04:55,840 --> 01:05:01,520
like a IPFS link again, right, like to some random dog that they write, that they, you know,

743
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:06,560
design the copyright nature of the content and so on and so forth. But definitely we are planning

744
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:11,280
to, you know, first start off with the creative common licenses and then go ahead. But, you know,

745
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:18,560
like when we are, we are dealing with movie studios and record labels, and we just like, you know,

746
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:23,600
you know, yeah, there were models where they wanted their own chain and we let it stay that way,

747
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:29,360
right, like we didn't want those assets to be put up here and eventually sometime later,

748
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:34,240
when someone else infringes that copyright, you know, it's a, it's, it's a pain. And, you know,

749
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:39,920
we are also planning on a, on models where people can challenge, you know, if there is, you know,

750
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:45,600
if I produce something and, you know, Null has like, you know, use that as an NFT or, you know,

751
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:51,120
just utilize it as an NFT. Yeah, we are working on models to facilitate that. But it's not like

752
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:57,520
foolproof. Nothing is foolproof in that sense. There is back to the, if blockchain is culture,

753
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:03,840
then, then, you know, all the tech problems become social problems, right? You know,

754
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:09,600
well, I mean, say, I remember this happening, like when people first started making like social

755
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:14,960
tools for sharing music, like way back in the day, like bank camp, amazing in the early days,

756
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:22,640
because they had that license field where it was like CC zero or CCSA or all rights, which is,

757
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,000
I think it was just three options in the early days. But you could like, literally go like, oh,

758
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:31,200
this is, this is CC zero or, you know, it's, it's not attribution non-commercial, but otherwise

759
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:37,360
go for your life remix it, or it's, you know, all rights reserved, which again, I'm like, I'm

760
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:43,040
super surprised that isn't, that wasn't just in EIP 721 in the first place, right?

761
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:52,560
Oh, that's because like not all assets are CC based movies, like movies are broken down into like

762
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:58,160
276 rights. If you sell each right, you make much more money than like selling the entire movie.

763
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:03,840
So, yeah, I guess I guess I'm kind of, I kind of guess I only really know mainly about the music

764
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:08,080
side of things. So that's just showing my own ignorance there of the licensing situation for

765
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:14,080
some, sometimes the media, right? No, like definitely they, they share a lot of things,

766
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:20,240
but yeah, video licensing, audio licensing, image licensing, you know, these are, these are like,

767
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:25,040
and these are pretty left to interpretation in multiple jurisdictions. This is not like pretty

768
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:30,560
standard. And personally in a country like India and Asia, these are not really organized. You

769
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:37,760
know, even in the West, like something in the, in something that's interpreted as X in US,

770
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:43,040
might not be the same in Europe, right? Europe has a completely different standard in terms of

771
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:48,640
how content is handled as a whole. You know, so yeah, these are, these are not interoperable.

772
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:54,560
So that's a huge challenge. There are no standards. So yeah, that's a huge challenge.

773
01:07:55,360 --> 01:08:00,080
Not sure. I mean, I think, I think we can start to make some new standards based on how things

774
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:06,240
work on blockchains, right? So yeah, things like, like buying a license and stuff like that, or,

775
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:10,480
you know, buying out a license for an NFT for a certain period of time, or something like that

776
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:18,560
is possible. Yeah, I mean, we've seen social tokens get, I mean, like FWB Dow on the Ethereum

777
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:26,560
network, they, like they have an event that I think that costed about 10 or 20 fungible tokens to,

778
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:31,680
you know, actually enter the event. But, you know, people didn't have that. And, you know,

779
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:36,640
there were other members that weren't attending that delegated. So, you know, you can delegate

780
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:43,360
your access pass. You can do a lot of things. So like our model is you stake for X days, and you

781
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:48,480
license it for like, you know, lower than an X days, right? And, you know, within that period,

782
01:08:48,480 --> 01:08:52,720
you know, the NFT stays in that account, you know, you can maybe create derivatives that are

783
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:56,240
time based and so on so forth. But these are models that we are still working on. So

784
01:08:56,240 --> 01:09:02,800
when you stake, these are some of the things that might happen with the non fixed one.

785
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:11,360
Oh, so going back to storage, I wanted to mention something there that I didn't get to get in there.

786
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:19,760
But I have a request that if you do do something with storage that is required by validators,

787
01:09:20,480 --> 01:09:24,880
please make it a separate directory that can be like assigned as a separate home.

788
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:30,160
So we're not all having to have like 10 terabytes of data on NVMe.

789
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,360
Well, it will probably be a different node, right?

790
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:41,280
Well, I mean, if it's something that has to be managed by the validator specifically on that node,

791
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:47,680
yeah, definitely validator. The validator is just the human obstruction. It's just the human.

792
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:52,160
Oh, you know, carrying around. Yeah.

793
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,520
Yeah, because that could be, I mean, that would be a serious problem though in terms of cost

794
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,880
to manage long term because NVMe ain't cheap, especially if you're using cloud.

795
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:08,880
Yeah, it's asked me about my AWS bill. The Freya knows all of it.

796
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,520
It constantly talking about the bill does nothing about it.

797
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:20,640
Well, I refuse to do anything about it, but I'll constantly complain about it.

798
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:25,120
Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't know that there have been some things happening in Juneau the last

799
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:31,680
few weeks that might have kept my attention elsewhere than doing what I think is quite

800
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:36,960
janitorial ops work. I can't think what it is that has been taking up so much of my time, but

801
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:41,040
I'll go away and have a think about it. Maybe I'll get back to you on that one.

802
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,120
What's been taking up your time?

803
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:48,400
Yeah, I can't think what series of events might have taken up any of my time over the last four

804
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:57,520
weeks. Guys, I'm looking at the clock and I'm thinking we've taken up quite a lot of your time.

805
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:07,200
So I'm really interested to... I'm really interested, what are you guys most excited about

806
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:12,560
that's coming up on your projects this year? I think I can guess what it might be,

807
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:14,240
but I'd like to hear you guys talk about it.

808
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:21,520
I mean, from the point of view from Stargaze, just very excited about building the marketplace,

809
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:28,400
getting the marketplace out there and have some kind of fun features planned for that. One thing

810
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:36,160
I kind of want to do is build this kind of pool where anyone can submit a token or like NFT and

811
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:40,880
then they can get another one back, a random one back that's like at least the floor price of that

812
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:45,360
NFT. So just kind of like fun things like that we have planned.

813
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:53,840
Nice. I mean, I'm looking forward to the marketplace big time also because I went a bit crazy and

814
01:11:53,840 --> 01:12:00,640
Degen like way too many, shot one 14s and I figure I need to like trade them up. I need to consolidate

815
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:06,320
the like... Let's not even say how many I've got. I feel like I need to consolidate them into a

816
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:11,840
manageable number of slightly rarer ones, which I will do when there's a marketplace because I Degen

817
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:20,240
too hard. Well, there's like this like impromptu like OTC trade telegram group that like sprung up

818
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:25,680
and people are trading them now. So that's always an option. Don't tell me about that shade. I don't

819
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:36,320
Yeah, like from an omniflick standpoint, definitely looking forward to building this

820
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:41,920
infrastructure and making sure that whatever we thought of from a licensing standpoint,

821
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:46,960
from a content delivery standpoint is achieved. Just getting the basics in place

822
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:52,320
all around is what is important to us right now. Definitely. I mean, look forward to the fun features

823
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:57,120
and maybe we can have some of those as well when we are interoperable. So yeah.

824
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:07,680
Yeah. Just on the comment, Shane, sorry, Todd has become an absolute NFT Degen. He's not doing any

825
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:13,920
DevOps anymore. Oh my God, I'm sorry, Todd. You're so good at DevOps. Please keep doing DevOps.

826
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:22,560
He won't reveal exactly what he got and how many things he got other than he just sort of came in

827
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:27,520
ashamed to one of the chats the other day. We're just like fellas, fellas, fellas.

828
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:31,920
I've spent all of it, all of it on NFT.

829
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:36,000
Yeah, man. That's where all the sticking rewards go.

830
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:43,120
To be fair, actually, to wrap up the thing we talked about before with the licensing and the

831
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:49,760
fact that the glitch candies were CC0 in the Genesis thing, again, that got me good. I was like,

832
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:56,800
CC0, these are really cool. The real Genesis is exactly my jam. And then like 10 minutes later,

833
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:05,440
I'm like, oh, yeah, okay. Start doing this. So he's actually going to airdrop like the video versions

834
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:08,320
of them to like everyone who bought one. So I think that's going to be pretty cool.

835
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:15,520
They're pretty cool. I like those glitches. Shilty, what are you looking forward to, man,

836
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:23,440
over the next week, month, year, decade? Outside of blockchain space, I just got engaged.

837
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:32,080
Thank you very much. I was in Puerto Rico without power. We were out on the waves and

838
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:38,240
that was the time. They moved you? Yep. Good for you, man. That's awesome.

839
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:42,000
Thanks very much. So is that winning going to be in Puerto Rico? Do we all get a bait?

840
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:48,960
Definitely not in Puerto Rico. Most of my family is on the West Coast and so it would be like a

841
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:52,960
15-plus hour travel time for them. So probably in Pittsburgh.

842
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:57,680
Okay, cool. You, sir, but what are you looking forward to, man?

843
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:02,960
Well, I just wanted to say also, I joined a little bit late, but really so nice to meet.

844
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,840
Well, I know Shane a little bit and Cicillus, so nice to meet you. From a validator perspective,

845
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:14,000
two of the best managed and run chains in the cosmos. Can we agree on that? Just from

846
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:19,920
initiation perspective, testnet, mainnet launch, I know my light is looting here because I'm out

847
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:27,040
in the middle of the woods here, but what an absolute joy to be a validator and be a part

848
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:33,520
of both of these projects. It's just awesome. Really, just how to do it right is this is the

849
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:39,200
way you do it right. It's been really a pleasure to be a part of both of these projects. I don't

850
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:46,000
know if you guys, give me a round of applause. Thanks. I mean, I gotta say, if you have hats off

851
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:51,040
to Jorge, who's like, does all the validator stuff, he's totally on point with that stuff.

852
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:55,840
Yeah, Jorge is off. I work with him too, but I just mean like just from how you guys approached

853
01:15:55,840 --> 01:16:01,360
it and just making validators a part of how you partnered with validators and then going in,

854
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:09,360
the selection process is how that set came together, just how to be able to launch without

855
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:14,880
ridiculous APR and other types of things that are going like less DGEN type situations, which

856
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:20,880
nobody wants to run an auto compound script and we've never run auto compound scripts on either

857
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:28,320
Stargazer or OmniFlex, which is amazing. It's been a real pleasure. So just wanted just to say

858
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:34,640
that and make sure everybody understands that just the quality of these two projects in the

859
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:39,920
ecosystem because they're awesome. Like they were always extremely excited about what's coming this

860
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:48,400
year and beyond. What am I most excited for? I don't necessarily know what's going on this week

861
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:55,360
from an excitement perspective. Did you know to see what went on chain earlier?

862
01:16:55,360 --> 01:17:00,480
I don't know. Prop18 is super exciting though. I'm really excited to talk about that and just

863
01:17:00,480 --> 01:17:04,480
have the pitchforks come out around validators and everything else going out with Prop18 on Juno,

864
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:14,400
but we'll skip that for right now. No, I think this is a good week. I think there's a lot of

865
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:17,840
new things coming out like Crescent just launched there. At least you're talking about their main

866
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:22,320
net and what's going on there. Some new projects coming forward and those types of things. So I

867
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:29,120
think that's my list for right now. Awesome. The phrase, what are you excited about?

868
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:34,720
No, you're first, man. You didn't even say like most DJ and things. You got away for that one,

869
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:43,440
so you got to say one now. Well, I'm actually, what I'm excited to see and this is related to NFTs

870
01:17:43,440 --> 01:17:50,960
is I want to see development in wallets and I'm excited to see someone build a product

871
01:17:50,960 --> 01:18:03,440
that will bring together the NFT platforms kind of like an IBC interchain, DGEN, bloody interface

872
01:18:03,440 --> 01:18:10,640
that actually like an explorer that you can just explore all of the NFTs all in the one place,

873
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:18,080
interact with all of the networks. Like I'm talking if you've got an NFT that you want to take from

874
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:25,520
Stargaze to OmniFlex, you drag and drop it, pull out your thing and get RSI on your finger

875
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:35,440
40 times a day. And I want to see that off secret and OmniFlex and Stargaze and so I'm

876
01:18:35,440 --> 01:18:40,400
called Iris. I think they got NFTs, right? I want to see all the NFTs all in one place

877
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:49,200
and I want to see that funded by someone. So I think that could be really cool and I think

878
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:57,360
that's not a big ask then, not a big ask at all. Actually, yeah, not a big ask. So Mintscan is

879
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:03,440
starting to like bring NFTs into their platform, but I think we need like a purpose built NFT

880
01:19:03,440 --> 01:19:08,240
spot where people just like, you know, when someone starts talking about an NFT, you can just bring

881
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:17,520
up the website, nice, fast website with like, you know, I have a name, DegenFT.

882
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:21,840
Degen.zone.

883
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:27,600
What do you mean DegenFT? I think I thought that was brilliant. I was like,

884
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:32,800
there we go. Yeah, can you buy that, Rhino? Thank you.

885
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:39,200
I'm on it. Yeah, Rino's chain coming to support the DegenFT project.

886
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,560
We'll launch a chain just to have the foundation to fund that. Yeah.

887
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:50,560
The great, give it to us, mate. What are you so excited about? You've waited till last year.

888
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:51,680
I know it's something huge.

889
01:19:54,800 --> 01:20:00,480
Hey, just a small point. Yeah, Legnul, you were saying,

890
01:20:00,480 --> 01:20:07,680
you were talking about that interface, right? We have been building something. I mean, we

891
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:14,400
build, you know, decent, I mean, we build like base level apps for a lot of things. And there's

892
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:20,880
something called Omniflix.me, which is like a profile, right? Right now, there's no blockchain

893
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:25,840
level interoperability or anything like that. What we have planned for is, you know, first,

894
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:31,120
we're looking to make sure Omniflix NFTs are displayed in some sense. You know, you'll have tabs

895
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:37,760
where it'll say Stargaze, it'll just say there are Iris and so on and so forth. And we'll make sure

896
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:44,080
that there are integrations there that will just like query and display NFTs. And that's about it.

897
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:51,600
Maybe, you know, you should be able to go ahead and initiate some transactions, base level transactions,

898
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:56,960
but only whatever is possible at the base level and you're not too specific. So this is something

899
01:20:56,960 --> 01:21:03,440
that we have been focused on and prioritized it for a few other reasons. But definitely

900
01:21:03,440 --> 01:21:07,440
something like that is in the works, but not the DJ and then.

901
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:10,240
I want to write the spec for the UX.

902
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:17,360
So, you want to draw the boxes on the piece of paper that somebody else has to go and build?

903
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:21,600
Yeah, but I want to write it in words to make it more difficult.

904
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:26,080
Excellent. That's always panned out well in my experience.

905
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:30,960
And it'll be written in 100% Australian. So...

906
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:38,800
Yeah, please like phonetic. Phonetic Australian. And I'll have to run a like a find and replace

907
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:41,040
over it to remove all the instances of the word, cun.

908
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:46,720
I was going to say now for the children. Yeah, that's good.

909
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,800
I try to avoid that on the podcast now.

910
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:53,680
Yeah, she's pretty sure you can get banned from the Apple Store for that one.

911
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:59,120
I've got a pin in my shoe that I like pressing to my toe to, you know, suppress it.

912
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:01,440
Yeah, I kind of...

913
01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:04,800
What are you excited about? I mean, you've been avoiding it like the play.

914
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:12,560
Yeah, okay. Honestly, I'm actually quite excited.

915
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:20,400
One of the projects we're working on is going to hopefully test that this weekend or in the next

916
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:26,880
seven days. And it's been a really fun and dorky project. I've not put nearly enough effort into

917
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:32,640
because of the various dramas on the Juno chain, but the other folks who I'm working with are

918
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:43,600
awesome. And yeah, it's not the first. It's not the first. But there's a lot of the stuff around it.

919
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:53,040
Yeah, it's not the first. But anyway, there's a lot of stuff that that's thrown out, which I

920
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:56,400
think is really interesting. And it's got us thinking about addressability and wallets and

921
01:22:57,120 --> 01:23:01,680
a lot of the kind of ergonomic stuff that I think we have strong opinions on. But like I say at the

922
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:09,520
moment, no time nor economic incentive to work on. But yeah, that's what I'm excited about this week.

923
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:15,280
I mean, I don't think any of us have received an invitation to participate in that test net.

924
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:24,800
The front. Well, just not me. I'll send you. Yeah, you know, you Serpa was like,

925
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,120
Null's bit of a loose cannon. Do we really need this guy?

926
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:33,760
I'm not even sure we actually bought a domain yet. So we should probably just like we'll send

927
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:38,240
we'll send us and I'll send you a link when when something's up and you can go, oh, this is what

928
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:45,120
this is what you're being secret about is shit. And I think it's going to be exactly your reaction

929
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:51,200
to be clear. I feel like I feel like you just haven't invited me because of,

930
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:57,920
you know, maybe some past comments on some of those ideas that you're working on.

931
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:04,240
I feel like you feel like you're like a little bit sore at me and now you just locking me out.

932
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:09,840
You're shutting me out. Yeah, no, it's this. But anyway, actually, do you want the other thing

933
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:13,200
I'm excited about is that obviously we're testing the unity prop at the moment.

934
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:20,800
Jaby's doing a lot of help with that as well. And assuming I didn't screw up writing the Genesis

935
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:25,680
file for that, that starts tomorrow afternoon. My time has this been going well?

936
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:33,600
I mean, the contracts had a preliminary audit and it's a pretty stupid contract like it. I mean,

937
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:38,560
it's not stupid, but like the logic involved in the unity prop contract is not hard. The reason

938
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:44,000
it's interesting is because it's novel to use a smart contract for governance, not because it's

939
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,760
really hard to write that logic. Like the logic involved is pretty straightforward and it's got

940
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:52,960
lots of unit tests and like say preliminary audit done, but actually running through all the scenarios

941
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:57,600
that we would need to run through in order to verify it will do the thing that we expect

942
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:04,880
is complex. And that's quite interesting. But obviously, Prop 18 is now live. So maybe we've

943
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:11,600
wasted our time. I don't know. We'll see. Not by the looks of it. So this is the Scotty.

944
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:15,520
It's pretty safe right now. Yeah. What's the current voting like? I haven't really looked.

945
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:20,320
I just saw it went live and I was like, good luck to you. I was like, shine on a crazy diamond.

946
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:27,360
It's mostly pitchforks at the moment. I have never seen so many like individual votes for No with

947
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:36,000
Vito. It's pretty high. Yeah. It's over 55% of the vote was like, I think so, it was No with Vito.

948
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:39,920
So is this going to be the first No with Vito in the Cosmos ecosystem then, assuming it

949
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:48,080
has. No, it's happened before. It didn't happen in Osmosis before. Right. Okay. So what this

950
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:56,400
prop went up overnight in Australia. And when I looked at it, it had over 6,000 individual vote

951
01:25:56,400 --> 01:26:05,360
No with Vitos. Yeah. But overnight in Australia is like prime time US. No one knows what that means.

952
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:09,600
He's writing it a bit of a night. I like a country of 300 million people.

953
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:22,080
Say what it is in like Europe or yeah. Yeah. Honestly, the 500 Juno is not really going to

954
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:28,480
make a dent in the 2 million coffers of the way. Everybody's like, I'm going out and taking this

955
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:35,040
500 Juno. Nobody cares. It's fine. Just vote No. It's fine. It's no big deal. Just vote No if you

956
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:42,640
want to vote No. You're not really making a statement so much with Vito here. Well, I think

957
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:53,280
there's like already almost 40% of the tokens voted. So even if like everyone else who voted

958
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:58,160
just voted No or yes, I think they would still get vetoed, right? Because it's only like 30%.

959
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:04,480
It's 33%. I think we're just talking about this, right? 33% not including the abstains, right?

960
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:11,840
33% of total with the abstains. I think it's with the abstains. I think the original design was

961
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:18,640
supposed to be without the abstains, but it was implemented differently. Once again, Jaby, our

962
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:26,160
favorite pedantic detail person, pulled a well actually by looking at the code and then going

963
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:31,040
back to the SDK and I think raising an issue and going, hang on a minute, which one's wrong?

964
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:35,280
The documentation or the code? Well, I think, and then Sonny came back and said that he did,

965
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:39,120
they did mean it that it would be 33% including the abstains. So I think that's...

966
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:44,640
Yeah. So it was... So ostensibly the code was right and the documentation was wrong. And so I

967
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:54,240
think Jaby then went and raised a documentation PR on Cosmos to change it so that it is actually

968
01:27:54,240 --> 01:28:02,160
what it says it is. Jaby doesn't definitely dot the odds and cross the T's there. Is the Cosmos

969
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:07,680
notorator notorator? Yeah, he's speedrun papers, please. Do you know what I mean?

970
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:14,880
A quick apologies to both Shane and Cicela for us bringing it back to Juno proposition.

971
01:28:17,440 --> 01:28:21,120
This conversation always comes back to this. It always comes back to this. I can't wait.

972
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:26,240
I mean, I can't believe what you guys are doing a podcast with all the stuff going on. It's crazy.

973
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:33,520
How you guys manage your time. Yeah. Well, the thing is, we would do this anyway.

974
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:40,240
Like we would just talk anyway. So why not just talk with the little light turned on instead of

975
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:48,320
turned off? I think that was actually Noel's original pitch of this podcast was like...

976
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:52,160
That was my pitch for the podcast. I'm like, well, we talk shit all the time anyway.

977
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:57,200
Let's not just record it and let people watch us talk shit. That's right.

978
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:05,200
Except somehow today you're wearing a colored shirt. So you've kind of classed it up a little bit.

979
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:09,520
But I don't understand what's going on. I thought we had an agreement on no colored shirts and you

980
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:14,800
have a colored shirt on with a data center background. Is that Shane and Cicela here?

981
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:20,080
Is that why you class it up? So I'm actually in a room that entire wall is a mirror.

982
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:25,680
If I didn't put something in there, there's a lot of weird stuff going on.

983
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:31,200
Is it worse than this with a light, a bug light on half of my face? Is it worse than that?

984
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:36,880
Your view there is almost artistic. I quite like it.

985
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:43,920
It kind of looks like it's going to go kind of dueling banjoes at any time there.

986
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:51,440
I'm in that region. So you want to be careful. I know precisely one thing about that in that

987
01:29:51,440 --> 01:30:00,240
start film. Not quite in that region, but of course. So anyway, we're at 90 minutes. We should wrap

988
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:07,200
it up. Thank you so much to blockchain and Cicela for coming on. We've really enjoyed having you

989
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:12,080
here. And I think we got out some like, nutted out some pretty good conversation about some

990
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:16,160
ideas and where we're headed. So thank you very much for coming. We appreciate it.

991
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,520
We should do this again too, because this is a great conversation. We've only scratched the

992
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:33,280
surface on this and this is all.