Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent validated teams.
Hey, hello. Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from independent validated
teams. And as you can see, we are now in a weird cold war with the beginning of the podcast. But
on this week's episode, we are very excited because we have this little fan
You've got technical issues, me.
I'm having technical issues. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. No, it's good. Well, now it's good. Yeah.
Now that you've set up technical issues, it's fantastic. Right. Okay. So it has,
it has cleared up the second that I observed that there was a problem. Yes. That's computer
programming for you, baby. Okay. So yeah, welcome Shane. Welcome, Cisla. We're going to be talking
about NFTs, obviously, and their respective platforms and NFT interrupt and lots of exciting things.
If you have any questions as we get going, drop them in the chat on YouTube,
and we'll post them. We've got a few from Twitter as well, which we'll get onto.
But first of all, we have our regular opening segment, which Null, I know you've got lots of
thoughts on this dumbest thing you've seen in the crypto this week. Would you like to go first?
No, I don't want to go first. I actually can't think of anything right now. I've been traveling
all night. Okay. Well, I can volunteer something. I will volunteer that because of,
apparently, completely misunderstanding how in transitive go dependencies work,
we had to do a second security release last weekend after all of the fun we had with Juno last week.
And that was, I think, largely down to me and some other folks. So that's the dumbest thing
I've seen in crypto this week because I'm partly to blame for it.
So, Jaby, do you want to go next?
I guess I forgot to enable a Cosmo Pfizer service once, and Contavo rebooted one of my servers.
I missed quite a few blocks on a testnet.
It's pretty dumb.
Without this week.
That was earlier today.
All right. Okay.
On Desmos testnet. I also saw a dodgy GenTex from you as well.
That was that.
Oh, yeah, that's pretty dumb of me.
What was that on?
Now it looks like I'm just kind of sledging you, but yeah.
Hey, what network was that on?
Desmos testnet.
Are they putting up another testnet, are they?
They've been running the same one for a while.
Shilty, dumbest thing you've seen, man.
I mean, I don't want to talk too much crap on myself, but I was jailed on Cosmos
while I was out of power in Puerto Rico.
So I'm not super proud about that, but I'm not going to throw that out as the worst thing
or the dumbest thing that I've seen.
And I'm currently writing a script for being able to refund everyone.
10,000 plus delegators, man.
I'm starting to load up, create self-composed load balancers in order to get it going,
and it's just, it's more of a task than you'd expect.
Did he just mute himself and then keep talking?
There's a lag on the video, I think.
Oh, okay. Right.
Coffee.
Cicela, have you seen anything dumb in the Cosmos this week, man?
Yeah. Just us where, we missed a few blocks on the recent upgrade, Stargate upgrade, where
we installed and did everything, but didn't start the binary.
I think that was what happened.
So we missed a few blocks.
It was pretty silly.
And when I went to ping.pub, I saw that happen to a few other validators as well.
And we immediately notified.
So it was Zedadex that notified us and the chain went on.
So I think, yeah, that was pretty dumb in my sense because everyone's like a validator.
So yeah.
Shout out to bloody ping.pub.
I got to recognize good projects, man.
And I'll tell you what, I reckon now every time there's like a network upgrade or anything to do
with someone's like trying to rejoin or catch up as a group, everyone's got ping.pub open.
And I'd hate to be that poor RPC getting flogged.
Yeah.
Because that's like a light explorer too.
So it doesn't cache anything.
And it's just constantly flogging RPC somewhere.
So do you just pronounce cache?
Yeah, cache.
What do you call it?
Cache.
Would you please pronounce corollary for me the free?
Corollary.
I love it.
What?
Or aluminum perhaps.
Wait, no.
How about schedule?
Or schedule.
Schedule, yeah.
You mean aluminium, shilty?
Yeah, aluminium.
Put out a big deal.
Hood for me, like the hood of a car.
Bonnet?
Bonnet.
Oh, right, right, right.
I don't know what you're talking about.
I think we must have, like, England and Australia share a lot of our,
you know, pronunciation because, you know, we came from there.
Are we here for the criminal for me, the free?
Oh, Australian.
Actually, isn't the trunk of a car called a Dickey in some places?
Yeah, it is.
It is.
I thought you were about, my favourite Australian word is ute, right?
Do you know that one?
You don't have utes?
We don't have, we don't have utes.
They don't sell them here.
I've seen a ute.
There's somebody who lives near me with a ute and it's literally,
they must have imported from Australia.
But.
Tell you your STV and cut the back off it.
Yeah, no, you got to stand off.
utes are like my favourite vehicle.
Faith were in the US, like the Subaru Baja.
Oh man, I would be all over so quick.
They're my absolute favourite.
You've got utes, like a tundra.
Is it ute?
They just call it a truck.
Yeah, right.
No, but those are like pickup trucks or they're like SUVs with like a deck,
but like a ute is like like a fucking tiny Renault or some shit with a with a proper flatbed.
That's super weird.
That's like a sedan with a flatbed kind of deal.
It's not a truck.
A tundra is not a ute.
That's a style.
So I'd ute.
They're fucking useless.
They don't really make them anymore.
I love it.
That's true really.
I love it.
There's like a distinction.
There's like different tiers of ute and that's the shit to ute.
Well, the ones you're talking about are like,
they're like you take a sedan and you cut the ass out of it and call it a ute, right?
And yeah, exactly.
What you call a pickup truck is what we call a ute most of the time.
And that's just like you take your SUV and cut the ass out of it and then you've got a ute.
So, you know, take anything and cut the ass out of it.
You've got a ute.
Take a van.
You've got a fucking flatbed.
We'll take that under advisement now.
Shane, do you want to tell us the funniest thing you've seen in crypto this week?
Stupidest thing.
Um, man, this week, you know, I'm drawing blanks with that right now.
I can't, uh, yeah, I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now.
Is he going to guys have to come back to me on that one?
It gets me like, what is the stupidest thing I've seen?
I mean, we do plenty of stupid things and then figure it out and then try to fix it.
So there's like, you know, plenty of like, I don't know, smart contract stuff that we would
like screw up and then, you know, fix and then you get a deployed later.
But something, uh, is this Cosmos specific or anything?
Well, anything you want really.
Could have been just, we usually make it Cosmos specific, but if you've seen something else,
it's done, bring it up.
And the default answer is Cardano.
Cardano, I can just say Cardano.
All right.
Um, man, um, yeah, I'll get back to me on this one.
Sorry.
Jabby, of course you mean Cadano.
Cadano.
Yeah, I think it'd be Cardano.
Well, um, Cadano.
Difficult to say.
I think in the south of England, you probably have people see Cardano.
And I think in the north of England, you say you have people saying Cardano.
Cadano.
And that's presumably how Australians would say it.
And that's pronounced.
You know, apparently their consensus engine is, is really good.
I've never, I've never used it or tried it, but I know that, uh,
Minniprotocol used it for a while.
And, uh, yeah.
Well, some specific things about it.
I don't really know.
You're going to have to have to have to check it out.
But the word on the street is that that shit is hot.
Yeah.
Nice.
Um, so first, first question, I thought like, I, I was kind of interested in this actually,
because it's something that, uh, has come up a bit when we've been chatting with,
it's particularly, I know you, Serpa, and I have some maybe guilty pleasures in common,
uh, on this front.
But what do you guys listen to when you're, when you're working?
It's like, to everybody, but I know, I know, I wanted to put this in as the ice breaker,
because I know Shane has, in my opinion, pretty good taste in music.
Yeah.
You know, um, I was actually surprised when we were hanging out in Lisbon because I like
rarely meet other people that are also into this like weird electronic, um, kind of like,
what do you want to call it?
Like, uh, post metal or something?
Stuff with guitars.
There's also got lots of electronics in it.
I don't know.
I, I have a friend who calls a yoga metal.
So, uh, maybe that, uh, will put like an image in people's minds, but, um, these days though,
I've been like, when I'm, when I'm coding, I either, I, I, I listen to metal or techno
when I'm coding for some reason.
Yeah.
Metal seems just enduringly popular to loads of people I seem to talk to in the cosmos eco.
Just like minimal techno, it seems to be all everywhere.
Yeah. Just like relaxing techno.
Yeah. Is he the minimal techno or, or something really loud and fast?
I think the good thing about metal is that you don't get, um, hung up on the, you know,
the words because you can't really understand them.
So it's just like nice, nice noise.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
It's just like, you know, grunts or growls or like none at all.
And you can actually just get, get stuff done.
Yeah. But we were talking about, uh, what, um, like Russian circles, stuff like that, pelican.
Yeah. I think we, we session quite a bit of pelican actually.
Uh, that's something, it's classic straight up post rock stuff.
Um, I've had quite a good during the, during the old, the old June crisis last week.
I got a lot done to, um, there's some great YouTube mixes of, uh, basically jungle that
was composed for nineties video games because the game composer, the game studios were like,
this is what kids are into. They're into jungle, but we're not going to license any tracks.
We've got to get composers to create original music that is like
the jungle that we think the kids will listen to, but it's just slightly quirky and dorky and
its own thing. Um, and like the ace combat soundtrack, all of the snowboarding video games
and stuff. And as soon as you listen to it, you're like, oh, shit, this is literally my childhood.
This is why I'm into the music I'm into. It's so obvious cause it's just like,
it's sort of like jungle, but also a bit industrial, but also a bit whatever.
And it's just not quite any of the things. And you're like, oh, it's really its own subgenre
of jungle, but recommend that. Uh, so what do you, what do you use to work to? Uh, yeah,
anything that not anything actually, uh, desert dwellers, uh, sponger, you know, these are things
that are at least simple, uh, like 140 BPM, you know, lower than that without lyrics.
You know, that's, that's where I'm at. So I get that pace and yeah.
Isn't like 143 BPM, like the classic slow is like whatever it is, it's slow core. There's
like a particular genre of German bass. Isn't there that's like really specifically like around
143. I'm not too sure, but you know, it'll be on the lower side. So, you know, I think you can call
it trans, you know, that's progressive trans something like that. I know these from, I'm
actually, I have no clue about the genres that I listen to. I can't differentiate between genres,
but at the same time, you know, I see these on,
yeah, I see these on DI.fm and uh, yeah, that's where you have side chills, IBA and so on so forth.
So these are some of the stations that I listen to. Yeah.
I used to work next to two of the funniest programs I've ever sort of worked with around
a desk. One of them used to listen to huge amounts of uplift, uh, uplifting trance.
There's like a sub genre of trance. He used to make it himself and he was actually pretty
too fair. He was actually pretty good at it. Like it was really my thing, but um,
the funniest was there was a guy I used to work with who was really into Soka and he'd just come
in every day. He was probably the one of the best programmers I've, top two, top three programmers I
ever worked with. And he's come in every day, just smashed down sweets, like packets of sweets.
He'd just have like a pile of them on his desk. He's skinny as a rake somehow, but just like,
just chain eats sweets all day. Double espresso is constantly, every time he ran out, he would go
back out and get another one and just Soka with like, you know, how it has like all the air horns.
So all you can, you can really hear anything other than like a continuous like beat all day long
that was quite similar. And then like just periodic air horns throughout the day. Uh,
but he was just an incredible programmer. But it was just really, really surreal. Just like kind
of having this constant ear, ear, ear next to you all day long. And it just like leaked out of his
headphones. But yeah, Chulzi, how about you? I feel kind of soft core compared to you guys.
My go to is actually a lo-fi Nintendo track playlist on YouTube. It's like, you know,
Legend of Zelda or Mario kind of turned kind of a little bit techno. And then I just listened to
that basically on repeat. And it's the same thing for you is it to kind of set an nostalgia point
while also engaging you into like some sort of consistent rhythm? Or should we? I have a mental
image of like every time that, you know, fail to compile as like the guy going down the tube.
That's not too far off. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, nice. Javi, how about you?
I mean, Mongolian throat singing. You know, that's just really good. And then that sort of leads into
like didgeridoo, which is like, that's my shit. And then, you know, some ABBA.
I kind of thought you were trolling then. I was like, I was like, definitely trolling. Yeah,
completely legit. The whole thing was a troll. I mostly listen to the noise canceling on my headphones
because of what noise? Lock out all the screaming that's happening behind me.
I have six children. And so it's always there. It's a party. It's always a party.
So what noise is it to go to? Yeah, well, I prefer a Gaussian noise. I feel like white noise
puts race into it. And you know, it's not me, but I get it. You're Australian. So
Javi, I don't really know you, but I can imagine you have a non-account on Twitter. That's just a
total troll. Popmos. And only one, only one, not 10.
That means you have 10. I love people that have entire conversations with themselves
between their troll accounts. Like Javi and Popmos. Yeah, exactly. Javi and Popmos.
So the only didgeridoo fact I've got, right, because I've got a bullshit fact about everything,
right, is that speaking of Australian progressive rock bands, the really loud synth-like sound at
the beginning of change that goes through the entire track is actually a didgeridoo. I didn't
realise until I saw a live recording, they did a live show during lockdown. And then this guy on
stage with a didgeridoo just like smashing out like a mic'd up didgeridoo. And it's like, holy
shit, that's why it sounds like it's massive bass synths. It's whack-off didgeridoo going through
the entire track. It's like drowning out every other instrument. It's really fucking cool. I was
like, yeah. So in Australia, when we have conferences and balls and stuff like that,
it's pretty common nowadays to do like a welcome to country, like from the traditional owners.
So whoever the tribe was for that particular area that the event is on, they have like a welcome to
country, which is like welcome to our spot, our land by like traditional owners. And a lot of
times that involves like a bit of a didgeridoo performance. And there's some pretty cool dig
out there, man. I actually enjoy listening to it. It's like a really surprising, like, I mean,
okay, that sounds really patronizing, but like, if you've ever played a didgeridoo as somebody
who is obviously rubbish at it, you're like, oh, right, okay, you can make noise with it. It sounds
kind of cool. Where do I go from here? And then you see somebody who can actually play it. And
you're like, wow, this is actually a really expressive instrument that I'm, I mean, but you
know, that's just, I guess, arrogance is like you can play the guitar. So you pick up a didgeridoo
and you're like, obviously, I'm going to rock at this. And then you can make one noise and you're
like, yeah, yeah, cool noise. But one thing that's like, I don't know if it's because I live in
Australia and we associate it so much with like country and traditional owners. But like, when I
hear it, it makes me feel like I'm actually out in the country. If that makes any sense, like I've
spent a lot of time on property when I was younger growing up and end out in the, it's more of the
Pilbara like area of Western Australia than the Red Desert. It makes me feel like I'm there. I don't
know why it is, but yeah, certainly makes me nostalgic of it when I hear it. So I don't know
if that's what it's supposed to do, but it certainly transports me if that makes any sense.
True Australian, true Australian. That must be it. I can't say I don't know. I've thought that
must be an Australian. You don't feel like you're in the Red Desert when you hear a DigiDigit do?
But I've not been to the Red Desert. So maybe it's one of those things.
Maybe if you've been there, it makes sense. Anyway, should we talk about NFTs?
Yeah, actually, I was going to say we can segue and someone should make an NFT collection of
DigiDigit sound track. Well, okay. So maybe no. We've got a bunch of questions about NFTs, right?
And stuff here. But as somebody mentioned, this is quite formless. We kind of just like having a
bit of a chat. And hey, it's Yussepa. All right. In a rocking chair. Play the music.
That's a pretty good wide up. Yussepa's just in a rocking chair.
But so obviously, there's a lot of preconceptions about what NFTs are. And joking, obviously,
you're having a bit of a wind up chain. I see you're jerking my chain here. You're saying,
what if you just made a bunch of DigiDis NFT collection that's all laugh at the fray?
But also, what if you did actually record lots and lots and lots of different...
Because obviously, like every instrument, presumably DigiDis have a character of their own,
right? So you could do some kind of collection of different types, different whatever. But that
would require, like, I guess, an audio NFT, right? Or something like that. What do you think about
those... What do you think about different genres of NFT? What do you think about different medias?
And what do you think... It's both sister and Shane. What do you think that we're going to see
as people start to go like, oh, maybe these are... Is that a different thing to a collectible,
like a lot of NFTs are now? Or is that... What are the limits of those multimedia NFTs? And what
are the ideas that... What are the low hanging fruit that haven't been explored in that area?
Like the... Well, I mean, NFTs right now are still kind of in their toy phase, right? And
the generative projects, the PFPs, that's the kind of stuff that people like. But the way I see it is
that when Ethereum first launched, it was just like all the tokens were just like a bunch of shit
coins, right? And I'm not saying that generative projects are like the shit coins of NFTs, but
I think a lot of them will end up doing that. But right now, if you're like a musician, you buy
like VSTs and you buy different sound packs and stuff like that, right? Those could be NFTs at some
point. And then if you're the creator, you can make all the royalties from it directly without
having to go through any, you know, intermediary, right? So I think that stuff is coming. I think
anything that is non-fungible in digital form will be published as an NFT at some point.
So it's just a matter of time. In relation to like, you know, music, NFTs, right? Or like
audio NFTs. I know that OmniFlix has audio NFTs at the moment on their platform. I don't think
I've seen anything like that on Stargaze yet, Shane. But do either of you guys see like a future
where, for example, like, you know, artists might be able to license sampling and stuff like that
through NFTs instead of actually just buying them, like being able to license content for use in,
you know, podcasts and that type of, you know, media production?
Yeah. Yeah, I'll take this. Yes, definitely. Because, you know, it is a natural logical
progression of how distribution happens. So right now we're utilizing StreamYard and YouTube.
And in an ideal future, we won't need the artist to actually sell anything. They'll just license
out everything. And these will be derivative NFTs or these can be any form. So, you know, here,
like, you know, just going back to Frase question, right? Yeah, NFT is a primitive. I think Shane,
you mentioned that earlier too. And, you know, just like how we have fungible tokens, you know,
NFTs are these non fungible primitives that exist on a ledger, you know, on a trustless ledger and
so on and so forth. And media NFTs in that sense are like the first set of NFTs. And, you know,
it's like the playground, right? Like you have toys in the playground. This is like the first
phase of experimentation. If you see all the new age tech that has been developed, it has in some
sense been developed through through you through its use in media. It's not because we are working
on those that you know, I'm sharing that fact. But when we look at it, right, like even Apple
computer, you know, Apple ones and twos, you know, they were out of desktop publishing, you know,
they were they started off with the most basic things. And that's when they want to be something
super smart and so on so forth. So media in that sense, alters an opportunity, a zone where you
can fail. And you know, even if you fail, the risk is that people might not view content or
something like that might happen. But when in this case, like with blockchain and NFTs, we are
combining as a financial aspect to that element of media as well. So trans media, multimedia,
you know, these NFTs will definitely, you know, we can see that even now. So there might be a
song that can be used as an access pass or something like that. And, you know, eventually,
yeah, there might be our NFTs and songs of this one. So yeah, multimedia NFTs will be there in
the future. Right now, it's only text audio video images that are being experimented with.
So I'm going to throw another thing out there. And I'm just going to keep throwing ideas out here
today because I'm an ideas man, as you both know. So I can see a world where in terms of like licensing
and, you know, on chain licensing and NFTs and stuff where, for example, like we have news websites
where you sort of lease an NFT as access like through Web 3 so that you and I know you know
what I'm talking about when I say this, Cisla, where you like stream payment
over time. So you can either have the subscription or not have the subscription just by subscribing
to it on chain and then using your Web 3 wallet, get access to like websites and stuff like that.
Because I know in the past, like XRP have experimented with this like years and years ago
about streaming payment for Web 3 while actually consuming content in web pages, which was pretty
cool back then. I'm not sure if they're still doing that. I sort of lost touch with their
development. But does that seem like something that's feasible and something we would likely
see in the next couple of years? Any of you guys working on something like that?
I mean, I think you're getting at like lending and borrowing of NFTs, right? And integration
with NFTs and DeFi is definitely going to happen. And lending and borrowing is just kind of a
primitive that's going to enable stuff like this. And just because all the data is on chain,
everything is trackable. You can have all kinds of metadata on IPFS. There's just a lot more clarity
around like sharing of these assets. Yeah. And yeah, just to add to that, right? Like even in
this case, like we had like six people and there are how many people that are watching? I don't know
if they are. We have four. So, let's just say we have thousands of people that are watching and
each of them, they want to maybe incentivize us or just donate, right? Like they can start to
stream money. That's programmable money in that sense. And if that is like many to one
from a creator standpoint, like creators receiving the money, we have say a Coke or
a Quava that can drop tokens for everyone that's listening. That's like one to many from the
creator to the audience that are consuming this content. So distribution in that sense,
like the newspaper example that you mentioned, yes, 100% we believed that'll happen. In some
sense, we've worked on that, but we've tested that framework and so on and so forth. But
yeah, that is definitely future that we see potentially with distribution.
Okay. So yeah, like that is one. And the other part is, yes, NFTs are being used as access for
communities, main discards and so on. So forth. Eventually we'll see a lot more subscriptions
that turn into NFTs. So just having that NFT will give you access to the platform, maybe as a beta
tester, maybe someone with exclusive access. So we'll see more of these happening rather than
the urgent use case of maybe going towards streaming payments, but definitely streaming
payments will happen. We've seen, yeah, Cosmos and contracts as well. We've seen Cosmos based
modules as well around that. And yeah, it is very helpful. Even in a case where let's say there is
a doctor or a lawyer and you operate in a trustless sense, you just go to website click and start to
talk, interact, consult and you pay. There's a trustless payment aspect of it. So this is quite
possible. Yeah. I think so sort of following on from that in terms of the web applications,
we haven't really seen enough development in web-free wallets to be able to sort of follow
that development path yet, have we? Does anyone know if there's foundation funding or funding
from any public, you know, like DAOs for this type of web-free wallet integrations or are we sort of
relying on the likes of Kepler to just pick this up at some point and roll with it? Well, so actually,
Osmosis just came out with a grant program that directs towards Kepler specifically around
development around it, putting on custom RPCs, things like that. So I guess in that sense, yes
and yes, yes, there's foundation money going towards it and yes for waiting for Kepler.
Yeah, they're opening the door for you to self develop.
So right now Kepler has Stargaze support in their app. They have a Stargaze app in the Kepler app.
Like we didn't even ask them to do it or anything like that. It's just, they just,
they just wanted to do it, I guess. But we are, we have the streaming dev fund on chain that we're
going to direct some of the funds to like hackathons and bounties and stuff like that and would
gladly fund, you know, any other wallet projects. Yeah, I don't know. Like in terms of wallets,
there really is that like obviously the major one is Kepler. I would like to see a competitor come
up in the space, you know, just to keep everyone on their toes and keep developing hard so no one
gets comfortable. I don't know how feasible it is. Everyone seems to be, you know, on the,
on the Kepler train, but I mean, surely there's space for another one that has to be and I think
competition in the space is key to driving development. I think I never see a winter really.
Like I think the reality is a lot of the, the way incentives are constituted in the space is that
the money, it's not necessarily smart money to go after building a wallet. However, you know, if
the market cooled down a lot, which maybe it's doing now for a bit, maybe it will go back up
again next week or go around in circles or go side to side. Who knows, right? But
it's got me forward slash price underscore chat, mate.
Yeah, sorry. This isn't price chat, is it? We'll do the price chat episode in future,
right? And then we can put all of our wild theories out there. But I think in the current
market, like if you have a dev team who understand the space and could build a wallet, there are
other more profitable avenues to be exploring, right? And I think that's the, that's kind of the
problem of the wallet situation. I mean, so for, we've directly, so first of all, when, you know,
like the name service stuff that I did, you know, with one or two other people really,
obviously the first version of that took about five minutes back in Lisbon. I think, I think
Shane was actually around the table when I was like, hang on a minute. Why does nobody build an NFT,
a name service that's just an NFT? And it was like about two minutes later, I had a proof of
concept of it. That's like, okay, cool. Now this requires like wallet integration and like 100
other things, right? To make it like fully realized. And it's that huge gap between
that initial idea, I think, where a lot of teams get to and then like all of the other things where
you basically realize that wallet integration is like the end user feature that would be amazing.
But you're not going to make any money from building that. And if anything, somebody will
vampire attack you, right? Well, I mean, MetaMask makes a lot of money by integrating swaps
inside MetaMask and they take a little bit of the fee. So I think Cosmos, I think the ecosystem is
just a little bit earlier. I think, you know, at some point, there'll be maybe another contender
for wallet and, you know, maybe Kepler might even integrate Osmosis and maybe another wallet might
come in and integrate another Dex and start taking fees. That's probably the way to do it.
So this was going into, there are obviously other projects that we've like, working on now with
other people as well, mainly smart contract based. And commonly, where as soon as you start doing
lots and lots of Cosmos stuff, you start wanting much deeper integration with Cosmos and smart
contracts. And very quickly, you also realize that this might be a wallet problem. This isn't
just like a DAP you're building, it might actually be better suited to be a wallet, right?
And then you go, okay, so are we really going to sit down here and build a wallet? Is that really
what's going to make, is that what we want to do for the next six months of our lives, right?
And the answer is no, not in the current situation because there's so many other things to focus on.
And probably this problem will still be there in six months because nobody will have
solved it by then. I mean, I think it makes sense for a validator to build a wallet,
because then they can just use that validator as a default one for all the services that they use.
And that would make them really popular. Maybe that's what Popmos is. Maybe that's what we should
have asked Gabby while he was still here. Maybe that's what Popmos would be. It would be a wallet.
I like the Cosmos station wallet, that's what it does, right?
I just want to say that. Yeah, that's what Cosmos station does. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, the e-moss model is pretty good in that sense, where they're directing some,
part of the inflation to developers, right? People that deploy the apps. So just like that,
if there is a possibility. So we've thought of a case where in future, if there is a possibility to
maybe split a small fee from the transaction fee to wallets that are actually going ahead and
initiating these transactions, that'd be great. But right now, we don't have means for that.
And it's like a flat funding at this point in time. But definitely that is the future.
Right? Like when we built in sync or the staking interface, it almost became a wallet.
Like except for the send, if you notice, like just the send part is not there. Otherwise,
everything else is there. So you could technically use Kepler to connect. And yeah, send was like,
it was too easy to integrate. But we just chose not to integrate because with send,
we'll have like a lot more things. You know, we'll have to integrate coin gecko, the price,
APRs, XYZ, everything. And we have Kepler doing that. So, you know, we intentionally avoided the
send button. And honestly, yeah, the lack of funding is another reason. Like we built that tool
because we were afraid that we might not be integrated anywhere. And, you know, we had to
have an interface for our chain. Like that was the first thought. But eventually, it helped
multiple other chains. And we're very happy with that. And but, you know, except for our delegation,
you know, like June, you know, we received that on Stargate, SCOMDEX, except for the delegation
grant, there's no actual money that's or like grants that are given directly, you know, for
building such tools. Like, yeah, we definitely got a grant from Juno. But yeah, that was about it.
So there's no true funding in that sense. So yeah, the model of funding, it is broken. But
technically, something can be achieved where you know, anyone that actually goes ahead and initiates
a transaction from a specific wallet can, you know, the wallet can actually the client can
actually take a buck. It'll be great. So I think this this segue is into something I want to
talk about, especially because we've got both of you here, which is that, you know, we're talking
about now wallets and stuff and how end users sort of interact with things. Obviously, interchain
accounts are coming along now. So that's like one thing which I'm very interested to hear, like both
of you, both of your opinions on like how the stuff that we're starting to see like new primitives
for chains talking to each other, I guess, is going to change, you know, how useful these things
are to the end user, how ergonomic they are to end user and also like how you guys see each other
kind of in terms of interop and working together and, you know, standards and all that sort of
stuff as well because you know, IBC NFTs is still, you know, the spec is, I feel like that got merged
literally the other day. But like, you know, you guys obviously literally work together. And I think
in maybe a more traditional space, you'd be seeing as like much more kind of competitors, right?
So I'm kind of really interested to what you guys think about these new primitives that are coming
along and what it means for interop and whatnot in the future, you know? Yeah, I'm super excited
about interchain accounts. You can have like a DAO control another chain and after a governance
vote passes, something else happens in another chain. That's super cool. One thing we're going to use
it for is to do make the onboarding easier. So you can do, for example, a swap on another chain and
then just kind of, you know, swap into the native currency for your chain. It's going to be super
easy. But in terms of, so ICS-1021, the whole like IBC NFT thing is a completely different thing,
right? We actually had a meeting this morning about kind of kind of syncing up with that.
Yeah, I wasn't aware that the standard was merged, but it was it's pretty much almost done. And I think
what was I think, I think, just like you guys have like a SDK version of it. And we are working on a
CosmWallet version of it. And, you know, the good thing is that it's a protocol. So a protocol is
language agnostic, right? So even if it's on CosmWallet or on the SDK side, it should still work
because what you're just doing is transferring like the token ID and the URI. And you have this like
class ID that's like the identifier for the source chain. And then you like mint the synthetic NFT
on your side. So yeah, after we get all that built, we can have NFTs flying around the Cosmverse.
Oh, man, that's awesome. That was a big question of mine is the interrupt between
the SDK, because I was just talking to Cicela about that the other day, the SDK, because there's
runs on an SDK version. And then yeah, all the, you know, the Wazam versions of NFTs. So
man, that's great news, the fact that they're going to be able to interrupt things.
So what is it? So being layman, what does that actually mean? Does that mean the ability to
transfer? Does that mean that you could have a marketplace that you could sell across chains?
Like what does that actually enable? Yeah, so it means that like, you know,
someone can mint an NFT on OmniFlex and then transfer it to the marketplace on Stargaze,
or someone could mint an NFT on Stargaze and send it to OmniFlex to their marketplace. So,
you know, if one chain provides a unique feature that the other doesn't, then someone might want
to transfer the NFT over. So you could post something for sale on both, for example,
is that kind of what that means? Yeah, well, I don't know if it's the same NFT or you can post
on both. But yeah, that's a whole kind of one. There was also a question of addressability,
isn't there? Because that's something that we've had the question where, you know,
because there's like, I don't know, 10,000 people or whatever use that bought names with the name
service on Juno, they're like, okay, well, am I going to be able to use this with Stargaze?
You know, am I going to be able to use this on other chains? And use this obviously means a
lot of different things to a lot of different people. You know, the most simple version of
can I use something to dereference my wallet address is, yes, it's about 32 and you throw
anything at it and it will, you know, just return the Juno equivalent, right? That's super simple.
But when people when people mean will it interrupt with NFT standards and other chains in an agnostic way?
Hard to say we're at a pretty early point. But like, yeah, what if you what if you can then
essentially make a fake derivative of it by granting a permission to it on two different chains? Like,
it's going to be quite interesting to see how those kinds of conditions like actually
thrash out in the wild because that if again, with with tokens, it's pretty obvious, right?
Because your balance is your balance, you send them to another train, they're in the
native bank module, right? But there's a lot of very interesting things involved in things that
are nominally unique being moved to another chain and then having a new derivative version of themselves,
right? Because then you run into the IPC problem of them moving it back to the source chain.
It's sort of no longer the same thing, is it? And I think that question of addressability
is really interesting to me. Like, I'm not certain there aren't many good ways of doing it,
right? That's the problem. But maybe, maybe it's one of my concerns with IBC in general is like,
how addressability works in IBC. And I wonder if NFTs are the thing that really might expose
some questions about that. I don't know if you guys have, you might feel free to tell me I'm wrong.
But no, that's, that's actually right. Like the in the earlier calls, we were discussing a case where
what if we bring NFTs from one channel and that channel is closed? And what do you do with that?
Like, do you, and how do you take the NFTs back to the source chain? If it were fungible,
it would have been a different story because these are unique assets, right? Like, there's,
there's the source chain that you'll have to store the same as the case, you know, even if we try to
connect with say an ebmos, right? And you know, there's a, there's an Ethereum NFT that entered
ebmos. That is again different from an NFT that entered through gravity. You know, I think this
has been discussed quite a lot of times. So if there's a punk that's from gravity, goes to Star
Gaze and comes to Omniflix, that's different. You know, when it goes from gravity to Omniflix
to Star Gaze, that's a completely different NFT. So, you know, the value of it might,
might differ as well based on the channel. And even now, like we see on Ethereum, just like
assets that, you know, that are just copy paste, that, you know, just copy the punk IDs and so on,
so forth. And then they create, you know, representative assets and they move things around.
So to an extent that, you know, that reference to the source is, you know, best observed on the
chain for people that can figure it out. But, you know, there's a, there's multiple layers of
abstraction, I think, user experience wise, just like how we are seeing the osmosis bridge
decision and fungible token, like this is in fungible tokens, right? Fungibles will take some time. Yeah.
Yeah, it's kind of at the top. Go ahead. No, no, no, I was going to say this is, this is the diamond
problem in IBC where you're like transferring from chain A to chain B to chain C. And then you kind
of have to go back the same path. And if you don't go back the same paths, it's not fungible the same
way. Yeah. So I think that's what we're going to say, Shalti. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean,
this is kind of the conversation around the Cosmos Hub region that came from, right? Where in theory,
everything should have been directed through the Cosmos Hub and then go from there. So that's their
way. There was just that single source of truth. Hope we haven't taken that path. We've kind of taken
the spider's web path as opposed to the hub path. Right. But this has been solved once before, right?
Because we had the World Wide Web where uniqueness was required from heterogeneous servers running
software to serve web pages and serve resources. And actually, of course, in the case of linked
data to serve federated data resources that should be able to call each other. And the URI was
the design for that that I think is easy to forget how despite its kind of clunkiness and
ubiquitousness, how elegant a solution to the problem the URI is and how it's served the job
pretty well. But the necessity of the design for IBC, as I understand it, has somebody who is not
super technically in the weeds of that design. It's the design of the relays and the channels
that causes the issue, right? Where the addressability of a resource is fundamentally tied
to its state as it moved around, right? Because resources aren't immutable, which in Web2,
a resource is immutable. It's either there or it's 404, right? So, is this something that we
should be looking at new primitives for? Now we have NFTs that are going to be moving between
chains and they might be potentially incredibly valuable. Is this a point to say, okay, we have
two different paths here, maybe we can take a look at whether or not these resources should be
have their state mutated by the channel they're sent on or whether they
would make more sense to make them globally unique at the point of creation and then
go from there? Maybe the same NFT mint on Stargaze, no matter what chain you eventually land on,
it has Stargaze, then the contract address, then the name of the token or something like that. It
has some kind of creation metadata that then always identifies it as that thing, I don't know.
You know, I think one thing would be really interesting is when shared security is a thing,
right? Then would security be normalized between more of the chains? And if that's the case, then
that would kind of change the fungibility of the routes for IBC. So that'll be interesting to see
if that happens or not. But right now in the worldwide web, it doesn't matter what route you
take. There isn't a security guarantee for each route. But in IBC, there is. So it's just fundamentally
a different problem and it's really hard to solve it. So right now, the easiest way to do it is
like if Stargaze gets an NFT from Gravity Bridge, for example, and then you just have to make sure
that you always send it back without going to another chain. So I think I've been talking to
people about this a while ago when the web of accounts and channels became apparent.
And I think you can address it at least on a UX UI level and having a bit of a standard around
a uniform UX UI so that we have situations where everybody is doing a similar thing.
Like for example, Osmosis has the deposit withdrawal and it's purposefully back to and from the original
chain and the same with JunoSwap. And I'm not sure about SIF chain or other ones, but sort of
having an understanding of what can happen if you don't do that and addressing that on a UI UX level
can really reduce the spaghetti as long as everybody toes the line and does the same thing. But
what happens, I guess it's the same question for tokens, right? So what happens if a bunch of
NFTs get sent from OmniFlex to Stargaze, right? And then OmniFlex disappears or vice versa?
They'll stay on Stargaze, right? If OmniFlex goes down, definitely there'll be more valuable or
less valuable on Stargaze. There'll be the representative assets. Even now, right? Like we
thought of a case, you know, best case scenario is when someone actually buys Atom on Osmosis
and sends them directly to OmniFlex. But that's not possible right now because that is a different
channel. The Atom on Osmosis is a different channel and comes if it goes to OmniFlex,
it's a different token altogether, right? So even on OmniFlex, we have the deposit withdrawal
function. It has to go back to the same account, right? So that, yeah, it has been challenging in
that sense. But yeah, definitely if either of our chains go down like one of it and the other stays,
right? These are assets that will continue to stay on the other chain. You know, with maybe the
source chain, you know, identify intact. I will just say Stargaze, contract ID, token ID,
yeah, the token ID and vice versa. Because I mean,
it doesn't have like any, you know, there's no elevated right to do something to a
NFT than what a normal user account is, right? So it can't like, you know, transform it or anything
like that. So when you send an NFT from one chain to the other, and I know we're not really doing
this yet, but is it likely that it'll just work the same as a token that it just gets put in some
sort of escrow on the source chain, and then yeah, it comes in the destination chain. And then when
you send it back, it pretty much just nukes the synthetic and then unlocks the NFT on the source.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's just how it works. But the other interesting thing about NFTs is that
most of the, all the data is stored on IPFS, or at least it should be stored on IPFS, right? So
the data is always accessible. It's just that, you know, if another chain goes down or whatever,
it's just the record that is going to be different. Well, hang on a minute, Shay.
Which is the more, that's the more important thing though, but yeah.
Well, hang on a minute, should be stored on IPFS.
Well, I'm very, very, very heavily standing the Cosmoise and Monchain metadata standard.
Like it's at the core of kind of like a lot of the projects we're working on at the moment.
You know, Cosmoise gas fees are low enough that you can store data on chain. You can use
iterators in Rust or whatever to start behaving like you're interacting with a no SQL database,
and you can eliminate some of the mutability problems that people have kind of shown and
demonstrated with NFTs in other places. Now, obviously, mutability might not be a problem
if you're using that for creative reasons, artistic reasons, whatever. Like it can be a feature, not
a bug. But that's the thing. Should we be saying, oh yeah, sure, it's totally cool that IPFS is
how we do things, and that's how it should work in the future. Or should we be moving to a future
where we are putting more of that data on chain? Yeah, like right now we are putting the metadata
on the chain directly. And you know, the media file aspect is being stored on IPFS. So yeah,
these are different approaches. But you know, in our case, if you look at it,
you know, it's someone actually renting space forever on the chain without by just paying
the transaction fee. And it is the validators and the storage node horse and everyone else that
will have to bear all these costs, you know, in perpetuating. So this is in some sense,
a decent model, not a great model, but maybe may not be the
yeah, is like a baby step in the direction of storing data that's mutable or immutable
on the chain directly and using that as a reference. So this is when we believe
interchange accounts and you know, some of the other aspects around interchange accounts will
come into play where you know, there might be specific data stored on a specific chain. So and
probably this is how cost-consul will scale to, you know, like with all the zones, right, like
some zones actually store that data, you know, on the chain, you know, some might not some might
use other ways to actually mutate that data. Like if you ask me in like personally what I believe,
the JPEG or the PNG should be an SVG and that should be stored on the chain. But at what expense,
like what joy, right? So, you know, that yeah, these are the questions. Even an SPG, it has to be
below 10 kb, right? Or so that's at least we cause them. Anyway, that's kind of the most you can
really get away with storing on chain and that the gas is not cheap. You begin to get into like,
you know, but but you know, again, maybe this is a the question is if this is a
but then, you know, it's even back to like, no matter what database technology you're using,
that binary data for that image is not going to go in the database, right? It's going to go
even in traditional web world, you'd throw in an S3 bucket or you know, a file server or whatever,
you you typically do have your database storing your file metadata than your file elsewhere.
Which I guess begs the question of whether it's actually a problem of incentives, right? Which
then becomes about like, like you just said, Sysla, it's quite cheap to store in perpetuity for what
it is. If it is in fact storing in perpetuity, the validator set of bearing the cost of that, right?
And there are projects like Rweave, the, you know, Filecoin, Cacoin, there are other projects that
have kind of grappled with this in the past already in web three, whether or not any of them have come
to a good conclusion on it. We're too early to tell almost, aren't we, right? I mean, they're doing
great, at least for now, they're they're they are powering a lot of the info. So in some sense,
that's fine. But yeah, definitely, there'll be better incentivization models, as you said,
more than the aspect of this changing radically fundamentally, right? Like these will be separate,
the metadata and the media file maybe. But yeah, who stores that and, you know, how are
incentives structured? And in this, in this IBC world, and even with bridges and everything else,
if you mint something on Netflix, and it moves to Stargaze, and it's transferred via
Gravity Bridge or something else, even if we had storage nodes, and we built a storage
node network around that, that NFT might disappear. And there might be a thousand transactions on a
chain that that those validators or those storage nodes receive no compensation for us, right? Like
as we move forward, like so, depending on where that's being traded, or what how that's being used,
or even licensed, if that's if that's if that's home to an omnifix, and that transfers out,
and then Gravity Bridge, it's licensed, and then you have a million transactions that somebody's
getting royalties off of off an MP3 song. Yeah, that's very difficult. There's really no way to
bring that back, right? There's no fee structure to kind of bring that back to the people or the
individuals or the organizations that are supporting that that transfers that, right? And I think in
the grand scheme of things, you hope that it works out, right? You hope that there's just as many
leaving as risk coming in, and you know, all those types of things. But but that's I think that's
kind of a concern, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I think in the context of IBC, it's just a lot simpler
to have the NFT being just like a pointer to the actual data. And it's just it's just simpler in
the context of IBC to have as much as the data like off chain as possible, because then when an NFT
moves to another chain, it could be more easily queried, you know, in just from one place, as
opposed to like querying a whole bunch of different chains to be able to like reconstitutes like
the NFT. So that data would have to be somewhat managed by either validate or set or something
else to make sure it doesn't change or that doesn't have to be somewhat managed in that sense.
So once it goes to IPFS, it's addressed to that right? And that's it. If it's an IPFS, yeah,
right. Yeah, I think outside of that, like a bit of something, some other. Well, I mean, you
like say, even even IPFS, I mean, there can be the storage node network, which is power,
which has nodes of IPFS and, you know, maybe CR and something else, and they can be curated
and incentivized by the networks. So, you know, yeah, what data you put on chain, what data you
put off chain is, but if we are utilizing the traditional IPFS services that are available
right now, yeah, that might be managed. That's actually managed storage, right? And they're
making sure it is delivered, you know, and available on demand in highly available. Yeah,
the availability is there. So, you know, you can maybe click on an IPFS link, it'll open up a video
will play, you get stream to you. Now that's the advantage. So with the storage node network,
that's not curated properly, that might not be distributed well, all this is like not possible.
Yeah, right. Actually, the fray we talked about this before where you can kind of like build
an IPFS pinning service, like on top of the valid validator set, right? So you can have like some
kind of incentive model for that. So there is potentially something being done. Yeah, maybe.
It would be right. I mean, yeah, to collaborate. So
there is maybe a top, not very secret project that I keep alluding to that's
doing something like that. But yeah, um,
phrase super cagey about anything he's working on ever.
Yeah. Just I for literally no reason at all, just because I come from a pattern of power.
And do you know what? It's probably literally one of those things, you know, like Indian parents,
like if you get, if you show them homework, and then it's got even slight mistakes in it or
something, you just get so much shit. So it's, it's better to only bring your successes to the
table after the fact, you know, just like, if it's not a success, you just, you just, you just
destroy your grade card on the way home from school and just never mention it. You know,
you only bring, you only bring the meat to put on the table. Everything else forget about it.
You're getting thrown out of the house. You know, you're gone. So maybe that's why it's the cagey
about projects. I'm like, if this project fails, let's just, I don't even remember.
It happened. I don't remember those. I don't even know what you're talking about. I don't
remember those get commits. You know, maybe I had a beer. Who knows? You know, for six months,
maybe I had a few beers, worked on a project, didn't go anywhere. I don't know. You know,
we will get a bit crazy right sometimes. How are you, how are you proving though that the data
is still there? Like, how, like, how do you prove that a validator, you know, didn't like pin the
data, said they pinned the data and got like tokens for that or something. And then I can tell you
after this, there's no project to talk about. I don't know what you're talking about. But luckily,
a combination of, yeah, a combination of smart people plus the economics degree that I largely
snooze through have actually solved that one for me. I wanted to ask about copyright,
because obviously we talked about Royals quite a bit. It's something that foundationally has been
quite important, certainly to, to Stargaze in terms of like, you know, it is literally front
center in the UI when you look at projects that are launching and all of that sort of thing.
But obviously, royalties and copyright and what people are actually buying, I think is for maybe
people who are kind of aware of how copyright works and sort of artists and creators and whatnot
is quite an interesting issue. Like, what do you guys think about the question of what people are
actually buying when they buy an NFT, like with relation to ownership and copyright and that
sort of stuff? Do you think it matters? Do you think you need it?
Well, in our case, we just, you know, we handed over to the creators, you know, so they can choose
like whatever license they want. If it's like CC0 or any other license, they can put it in the
metadata. But I'm sure Cislah has like a more kind of a deeper answer here for this.
No, actually, we did our best to incorporate that. But yeah, a lot of the creators, you know,
they were, they didn't have specific copyrights that they were giving out, you know, they,
not a lot of them actually are aware. They're not too deep into copyright. They're not too deep
into understanding the, maybe the business aspect of art creativity. So, you know, what can it lead
to later on is not something that, you know, many have thought of. So when it is a CC0 asset, right,
like, you know, maybe, yeah, there have been multiple examples of music being released in
as a CC0 asset. And that, that is like, it's fine, you know, people can do whatever they want.
But when it's original art, that's not declared as anything, that's still a problem. So, you know,
we mentioned that like, if there is, you know, yeah, if there is no license in some sense, right,
it will become CC0. But, you know, we didn't have like great support for that. So, you know, we,
we had to educate people on the licensing part. So we are next, like in the next phase of
means and creators that we are onboarding, we want them to have a metadata field that will say,
you know, licensing, and it'll have to have something associated with it, even if it's just
like a IPFS link again, right, like to some random dog that they write, that they, you know,
design the copyright nature of the content and so on and so forth. But definitely we are planning
to, you know, first start off with the creative common licenses and then go ahead. But, you know,
like when we are, we are dealing with movie studios and record labels, and we just like, you know,
you know, yeah, there were models where they wanted their own chain and we let it stay that way,
right, like we didn't want those assets to be put up here and eventually sometime later,
when someone else infringes that copyright, you know, it's a, it's, it's a pain. And, you know,
we are also planning on a, on models where people can challenge, you know, if there is, you know,
if I produce something and, you know, Null has like, you know, use that as an NFT or, you know,
just utilize it as an NFT. Yeah, we are working on models to facilitate that. But it's not like
foolproof. Nothing is foolproof in that sense. There is back to the, if blockchain is culture,
then, then, you know, all the tech problems become social problems, right? You know,
well, I mean, say, I remember this happening, like when people first started making like social
tools for sharing music, like way back in the day, like bank camp, amazing in the early days,
because they had that license field where it was like CC zero or CCSA or all rights, which is,
I think it was just three options in the early days. But you could like, literally go like, oh,
this is, this is CC zero or, you know, it's, it's not attribution non-commercial, but otherwise
go for your life remix it, or it's, you know, all rights reserved, which again, I'm like, I'm
super surprised that isn't, that wasn't just in EIP 721 in the first place, right?
Oh, that's because like not all assets are CC based movies, like movies are broken down into like
276 rights. If you sell each right, you make much more money than like selling the entire movie.
So, yeah, I guess I guess I'm kind of, I kind of guess I only really know mainly about the music
side of things. So that's just showing my own ignorance there of the licensing situation for
some, sometimes the media, right? No, like definitely they, they share a lot of things,
but yeah, video licensing, audio licensing, image licensing, you know, these are, these are like,
and these are pretty left to interpretation in multiple jurisdictions. This is not like pretty
standard. And personally in a country like India and Asia, these are not really organized. You
know, even in the West, like something in the, in something that's interpreted as X in US,
might not be the same in Europe, right? Europe has a completely different standard in terms of
how content is handled as a whole. You know, so yeah, these are, these are not interoperable.
So that's a huge challenge. There are no standards. So yeah, that's a huge challenge.
Not sure. I mean, I think, I think we can start to make some new standards based on how things
work on blockchains, right? So yeah, things like, like buying a license and stuff like that, or,
you know, buying out a license for an NFT for a certain period of time, or something like that
is possible. Yeah, I mean, we've seen social tokens get, I mean, like FWB Dow on the Ethereum
network, they, like they have an event that I think that costed about 10 or 20 fungible tokens to,
you know, actually enter the event. But, you know, people didn't have that. And, you know,
there were other members that weren't attending that delegated. So, you know, you can delegate
your access pass. You can do a lot of things. So like our model is you stake for X days, and you
license it for like, you know, lower than an X days, right? And, you know, within that period,
you know, the NFT stays in that account, you know, you can maybe create derivatives that are
time based and so on so forth. But these are models that we are still working on. So
when you stake, these are some of the things that might happen with the non fixed one.
Oh, so going back to storage, I wanted to mention something there that I didn't get to get in there.
But I have a request that if you do do something with storage that is required by validators,
please make it a separate directory that can be like assigned as a separate home.
So we're not all having to have like 10 terabytes of data on NVMe.
Well, it will probably be a different node, right?
Well, I mean, if it's something that has to be managed by the validator specifically on that node,
yeah, definitely validator. The validator is just the human obstruction. It's just the human.
Oh, you know, carrying around. Yeah.
Yeah, because that could be, I mean, that would be a serious problem though in terms of cost
to manage long term because NVMe ain't cheap, especially if you're using cloud.
Yeah, it's asked me about my AWS bill. The Freya knows all of it.
It constantly talking about the bill does nothing about it.
Well, I refuse to do anything about it, but I'll constantly complain about it.
Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't know that there have been some things happening in Juneau the last
few weeks that might have kept my attention elsewhere than doing what I think is quite
janitorial ops work. I can't think what it is that has been taking up so much of my time, but
I'll go away and have a think about it. Maybe I'll get back to you on that one.
What's been taking up your time?
Yeah, I can't think what series of events might have taken up any of my time over the last four
weeks. Guys, I'm looking at the clock and I'm thinking we've taken up quite a lot of your time.
So I'm really interested to... I'm really interested, what are you guys most excited about
that's coming up on your projects this year? I think I can guess what it might be,
but I'd like to hear you guys talk about it.
I mean, from the point of view from Stargaze, just very excited about building the marketplace,
getting the marketplace out there and have some kind of fun features planned for that. One thing
I kind of want to do is build this kind of pool where anyone can submit a token or like NFT and
then they can get another one back, a random one back that's like at least the floor price of that
NFT. So just kind of like fun things like that we have planned.
Nice. I mean, I'm looking forward to the marketplace big time also because I went a bit crazy and
Degen like way too many, shot one 14s and I figure I need to like trade them up. I need to consolidate
the like... Let's not even say how many I've got. I feel like I need to consolidate them into a
manageable number of slightly rarer ones, which I will do when there's a marketplace because I Degen
too hard. Well, there's like this like impromptu like OTC trade telegram group that like sprung up
and people are trading them now. So that's always an option. Don't tell me about that shade. I don't
Yeah, like from an omniflick standpoint, definitely looking forward to building this
infrastructure and making sure that whatever we thought of from a licensing standpoint,
from a content delivery standpoint is achieved. Just getting the basics in place
all around is what is important to us right now. Definitely. I mean, look forward to the fun features
and maybe we can have some of those as well when we are interoperable. So yeah.
Yeah. Just on the comment, Shane, sorry, Todd has become an absolute NFT Degen. He's not doing any
DevOps anymore. Oh my God, I'm sorry, Todd. You're so good at DevOps. Please keep doing DevOps.
He won't reveal exactly what he got and how many things he got other than he just sort of came in
ashamed to one of the chats the other day. We're just like fellas, fellas, fellas.
I've spent all of it, all of it on NFT.
Yeah, man. That's where all the sticking rewards go.
To be fair, actually, to wrap up the thing we talked about before with the licensing and the
fact that the glitch candies were CC0 in the Genesis thing, again, that got me good. I was like,
CC0, these are really cool. The real Genesis is exactly my jam. And then like 10 minutes later,
I'm like, oh, yeah, okay. Start doing this. So he's actually going to airdrop like the video versions
of them to like everyone who bought one. So I think that's going to be pretty cool.
They're pretty cool. I like those glitches. Shilty, what are you looking forward to, man,
over the next week, month, year, decade? Outside of blockchain space, I just got engaged.
Thank you very much. I was in Puerto Rico without power. We were out on the waves and
that was the time. They moved you? Yep. Good for you, man. That's awesome.
Thanks very much. So is that winning going to be in Puerto Rico? Do we all get a bait?
Definitely not in Puerto Rico. Most of my family is on the West Coast and so it would be like a
15-plus hour travel time for them. So probably in Pittsburgh.
Okay, cool. You, sir, but what are you looking forward to, man?
Well, I just wanted to say also, I joined a little bit late, but really so nice to meet.
Well, I know Shane a little bit and Cicillus, so nice to meet you. From a validator perspective,
two of the best managed and run chains in the cosmos. Can we agree on that? Just from
initiation perspective, testnet, mainnet launch, I know my light is looting here because I'm out
in the middle of the woods here, but what an absolute joy to be a validator and be a part
of both of these projects. It's just awesome. Really, just how to do it right is this is the
way you do it right. It's been really a pleasure to be a part of both of these projects. I don't
know if you guys, give me a round of applause. Thanks. I mean, I gotta say, if you have hats off
to Jorge, who's like, does all the validator stuff, he's totally on point with that stuff.
Yeah, Jorge is off. I work with him too, but I just mean like just from how you guys approached
it and just making validators a part of how you partnered with validators and then going in,
the selection process is how that set came together, just how to be able to launch without
ridiculous APR and other types of things that are going like less DGEN type situations, which
nobody wants to run an auto compound script and we've never run auto compound scripts on either
Stargazer or OmniFlex, which is amazing. It's been a real pleasure. So just wanted just to say
that and make sure everybody understands that just the quality of these two projects in the
ecosystem because they're awesome. Like they were always extremely excited about what's coming this
year and beyond. What am I most excited for? I don't necessarily know what's going on this week
from an excitement perspective. Did you know to see what went on chain earlier?
I don't know. Prop18 is super exciting though. I'm really excited to talk about that and just
have the pitchforks come out around validators and everything else going out with Prop18 on Juno,
but we'll skip that for right now. No, I think this is a good week. I think there's a lot of
new things coming out like Crescent just launched there. At least you're talking about their main
net and what's going on there. Some new projects coming forward and those types of things. So I
think that's my list for right now. Awesome. The phrase, what are you excited about?
No, you're first, man. You didn't even say like most DJ and things. You got away for that one,
so you got to say one now. Well, I'm actually, what I'm excited to see and this is related to NFTs
is I want to see development in wallets and I'm excited to see someone build a product
that will bring together the NFT platforms kind of like an IBC interchain, DGEN, bloody interface
that actually like an explorer that you can just explore all of the NFTs all in the one place,
interact with all of the networks. Like I'm talking if you've got an NFT that you want to take from
Stargaze to OmniFlex, you drag and drop it, pull out your thing and get RSI on your finger
40 times a day. And I want to see that off secret and OmniFlex and Stargaze and so I'm
called Iris. I think they got NFTs, right? I want to see all the NFTs all in one place
and I want to see that funded by someone. So I think that could be really cool and I think
that's not a big ask then, not a big ask at all. Actually, yeah, not a big ask. So Mintscan is
starting to like bring NFTs into their platform, but I think we need like a purpose built NFT
spot where people just like, you know, when someone starts talking about an NFT, you can just bring
up the website, nice, fast website with like, you know, I have a name, DegenFT.
Degen.zone.
What do you mean DegenFT? I think I thought that was brilliant. I was like,
there we go. Yeah, can you buy that, Rhino? Thank you.
I'm on it. Yeah, Rino's chain coming to support the DegenFT project.
We'll launch a chain just to have the foundation to fund that. Yeah.
The great, give it to us, mate. What are you so excited about? You've waited till last year.
I know it's something huge.
Hey, just a small point. Yeah, Legnul, you were saying,
you were talking about that interface, right? We have been building something. I mean, we
build, you know, decent, I mean, we build like base level apps for a lot of things. And there's
something called Omniflix.me, which is like a profile, right? Right now, there's no blockchain
level interoperability or anything like that. What we have planned for is, you know, first,
we're looking to make sure Omniflix NFTs are displayed in some sense. You know, you'll have tabs
where it'll say Stargaze, it'll just say there are Iris and so on and so forth. And we'll make sure
that there are integrations there that will just like query and display NFTs. And that's about it.
Maybe, you know, you should be able to go ahead and initiate some transactions, base level transactions,
but only whatever is possible at the base level and you're not too specific. So this is something
that we have been focused on and prioritized it for a few other reasons. But definitely
something like that is in the works, but not the DJ and then.
I want to write the spec for the UX.
So, you want to draw the boxes on the piece of paper that somebody else has to go and build?
Yeah, but I want to write it in words to make it more difficult.
Excellent. That's always panned out well in my experience.
And it'll be written in 100% Australian. So...
Yeah, please like phonetic. Phonetic Australian. And I'll have to run a like a find and replace
over it to remove all the instances of the word, cun.
I was going to say now for the children. Yeah, that's good.
I try to avoid that on the podcast now.
Yeah, she's pretty sure you can get banned from the Apple Store for that one.
I've got a pin in my shoe that I like pressing to my toe to, you know, suppress it.
Yeah, I kind of...
What are you excited about? I mean, you've been avoiding it like the play.
Yeah, okay. Honestly, I'm actually quite excited.
One of the projects we're working on is going to hopefully test that this weekend or in the next
seven days. And it's been a really fun and dorky project. I've not put nearly enough effort into
because of the various dramas on the Juno chain, but the other folks who I'm working with are
awesome. And yeah, it's not the first. It's not the first. But there's a lot of the stuff around it.
Yeah, it's not the first. But anyway, there's a lot of stuff that that's thrown out, which I
think is really interesting. And it's got us thinking about addressability and wallets and
a lot of the kind of ergonomic stuff that I think we have strong opinions on. But like I say at the
moment, no time nor economic incentive to work on. But yeah, that's what I'm excited about this week.
I mean, I don't think any of us have received an invitation to participate in that test net.
The front. Well, just not me. I'll send you. Yeah, you know, you Serpa was like,
Null's bit of a loose cannon. Do we really need this guy?
I'm not even sure we actually bought a domain yet. So we should probably just like we'll send
we'll send us and I'll send you a link when when something's up and you can go, oh, this is what
this is what you're being secret about is shit. And I think it's going to be exactly your reaction
to be clear. I feel like I feel like you just haven't invited me because of,
you know, maybe some past comments on some of those ideas that you're working on.
I feel like you feel like you're like a little bit sore at me and now you just locking me out.
You're shutting me out. Yeah, no, it's this. But anyway, actually, do you want the other thing
I'm excited about is that obviously we're testing the unity prop at the moment.
Jaby's doing a lot of help with that as well. And assuming I didn't screw up writing the Genesis
file for that, that starts tomorrow afternoon. My time has this been going well?
I mean, the contracts had a preliminary audit and it's a pretty stupid contract like it. I mean,
it's not stupid, but like the logic involved in the unity prop contract is not hard. The reason
it's interesting is because it's novel to use a smart contract for governance, not because it's
really hard to write that logic. Like the logic involved is pretty straightforward and it's got
lots of unit tests and like say preliminary audit done, but actually running through all the scenarios
that we would need to run through in order to verify it will do the thing that we expect
is complex. And that's quite interesting. But obviously, Prop 18 is now live. So maybe we've
wasted our time. I don't know. We'll see. Not by the looks of it. So this is the Scotty.
It's pretty safe right now. Yeah. What's the current voting like? I haven't really looked.
I just saw it went live and I was like, good luck to you. I was like, shine on a crazy diamond.
It's mostly pitchforks at the moment. I have never seen so many like individual votes for No with
Vito. It's pretty high. Yeah. It's over 55% of the vote was like, I think so, it was No with Vito.
So is this going to be the first No with Vito in the Cosmos ecosystem then, assuming it
has. No, it's happened before. It didn't happen in Osmosis before. Right. Okay. So what this
prop went up overnight in Australia. And when I looked at it, it had over 6,000 individual vote
No with Vitos. Yeah. But overnight in Australia is like prime time US. No one knows what that means.
He's writing it a bit of a night. I like a country of 300 million people.
Say what it is in like Europe or yeah. Yeah. Honestly, the 500 Juno is not really going to
make a dent in the 2 million coffers of the way. Everybody's like, I'm going out and taking this
500 Juno. Nobody cares. It's fine. Just vote No. It's fine. It's no big deal. Just vote No if you
want to vote No. You're not really making a statement so much with Vito here. Well, I think
there's like already almost 40% of the tokens voted. So even if like everyone else who voted
just voted No or yes, I think they would still get vetoed, right? Because it's only like 30%.
It's 33%. I think we're just talking about this, right? 33% not including the abstains, right?
33% of total with the abstains. I think it's with the abstains. I think the original design was
supposed to be without the abstains, but it was implemented differently. Once again, Jaby, our
favorite pedantic detail person, pulled a well actually by looking at the code and then going
back to the SDK and I think raising an issue and going, hang on a minute, which one's wrong?
The documentation or the code? Well, I think, and then Sonny came back and said that he did,
they did mean it that it would be 33% including the abstains. So I think that's...
Yeah. So it was... So ostensibly the code was right and the documentation was wrong. And so I
think Jaby then went and raised a documentation PR on Cosmos to change it so that it is actually
what it says it is. Jaby doesn't definitely dot the odds and cross the T's there. Is the Cosmos
notorator notorator? Yeah, he's speedrun papers, please. Do you know what I mean?
A quick apologies to both Shane and Cicela for us bringing it back to Juno proposition.
This conversation always comes back to this. It always comes back to this. I can't wait.
I mean, I can't believe what you guys are doing a podcast with all the stuff going on. It's crazy.
How you guys manage your time. Yeah. Well, the thing is, we would do this anyway.
Like we would just talk anyway. So why not just talk with the little light turned on instead of
turned off? I think that was actually Noel's original pitch of this podcast was like...
That was my pitch for the podcast. I'm like, well, we talk shit all the time anyway.
Let's not just record it and let people watch us talk shit. That's right.
Except somehow today you're wearing a colored shirt. So you've kind of classed it up a little bit.
But I don't understand what's going on. I thought we had an agreement on no colored shirts and you
have a colored shirt on with a data center background. Is that Shane and Cicela here?
Is that why you class it up? So I'm actually in a room that entire wall is a mirror.
If I didn't put something in there, there's a lot of weird stuff going on.
Is it worse than this with a light, a bug light on half of my face? Is it worse than that?
Your view there is almost artistic. I quite like it.
It kind of looks like it's going to go kind of dueling banjoes at any time there.
I'm in that region. So you want to be careful. I know precisely one thing about that in that
start film. Not quite in that region, but of course. So anyway, we're at 90 minutes. We should wrap
it up. Thank you so much to blockchain and Cicela for coming on. We've really enjoyed having you
here. And I think we got out some like, nutted out some pretty good conversation about some
ideas and where we're headed. So thank you very much for coming. We appreciate it.
We should do this again too, because this is a great conversation. We've only scratched the
surface on this and this is all.